Conference hbahba::cam_sports

	What was the oucome of the Pens games this weekend?
	(1/9 vs Calgary and 1/10 at Winnipeg)


	Bill

    They beat Calgary, think it was 4-3, or 3-2, and lost to Winnipeg 3-2
    yesterday.
    
    JaKe
    

    Well, the news just came out on why Mario Lemieux is going to be out
    for 4-6 weeks.
    
    Lemieux had surgery the other day for removal of an enlarged lymph
    node.
    
    Examination of the node that was removed revealed that Mario has
    Hodgkin's Disease, a cancer that strikes the lypmh system.  The doctors
    said that the form that Lemieux has is the "most treatable" and Mario
    will start undergoing radiation treatments, which will last for four
    weeks.  The cure rate on the form Lemieux has is 90%.
    
    JaKe
    

	Any more news on the 9am press conference?  

	Bill

    What time is the 9am press conference to be held?
    
    lEe

    	This team has sure had it's share of hardships.  Here's hoping
    Lemieux has no complications.
    
    				/Don

    Today, some excrement hit the fan around this area, more outside of
    work than in, but both were troublesome.  
    
    Therefore, I ain't had a chance to turn on a radio or TV to see what
    the hell's going on.  Alkthough, the last i heard, the news confernence
    was scheduled for Friday morning, not today, but I could be wrond
    there.
    
    Heard that it'll be AT LEAST 6 weeks afore he's back on the ice, that I
    heard at 1:30 am this morning.
    
    JaKe
    

NY Giants tackle Karl Nelson had Hodgkins.  Granted, he doesn't play
any more but he is leading a normal life, last I heard....

Mario is a tough competitor, and I'll be he takes this on as just another
challenge....

Certainly has been a tough couple of years for the franchise though!


'Saw

	Read in yesterday's paper that they were even speculating that Mario
	could be back as early as 6 weeks!  

	Just got ahold of a pair of tickets to tonight's game at the Gahden.
	Anyone wanna have a couple brewskis before or after (or both)?

	Bill

    Put me down on record as predicting Mario will not return until next
    season.  I've witnessed the effects of radiation treatment too many
    times to claim otherwise.  
    
    Mario will be on his back for much of the treatment, likely lose his
    hair, have to be treated for dehydration and only after a recovery
    period, would he be able to begin training again.  I'd like to believe
    otherwise, but it just won't happen.  Radiation is exhausting and
    traumatic to one's system.
    
    I'd be very surprised to see Mario be able to skate at all within 10
    weeks.
    
    Mark.

    I agree with you Mark. I think 4-6 weeks is extremely optimistic
    for all the reasons you brought out. However, every person's reactions
    are different but I don't think he'll be back to full strength, God
    willing, until the summer. Ain't no doc (altho I play one on TV) so
    could be wrong. And I know you speak from personal experience of a
    loved one.
    
    My sister in law has been battling Hodgkins for 10 months now.
    She was diagnosed as Stage 2 ( she had multiple instances of the
    disease in the nodes, chest, and neck). Months of chemo have paid
    off finally with no overt instances of Hodgkins remaining. She now
    begins radiation for 4-5 weeks for complete surety. She has already
    experienced the hair loss and lack of strength and endurance. She
    was told that she would continue to feel weak during her treatment
    and occasionally post treatment. After a couple of months she may
    be able to sustain occasional levels of activity, if her body has
    the endurance.
    
    As much as I wish for Mario to come back in 4-6 weeks, the constant
    level of actyivity and training he has to go through would seem to
    me to be too taxing for his body.  In any event, here's hoping the
    Hodgkins is arrested quickly and that he has a healthy and long life,
    hockey notwithstanding.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    Ack!!
    First paragraph I MEANT to state that 'I don't think Mario will be
    back to full strength until the summer. The God willing part was
    meant to hope that he RETURNS to full strength, God willing.
    
    Sorry for the poor syntax.
    
    MikeL
    

I've heard hockey players say they get really rusty on three straight days
rest, so even in Mario could be back in 4-6 wks I doubt he'd be himself.


This is a stupid question and not meant to be insulting, but if you 
go through those treatments, does your hair eventually grow back?


'Saw

	Yeah, Saw your hair does grow back.  They are even experimenting
	with some medication which greatly reduces the severe nausea.
	(A close friend just completed the therapy with minimal nausea.)


	Bill

    Saw, not a rude question at all.
    
    Radiation patients will get their hair back.  Mario will likely get 2
    stages of radiation
    
    	1. Throat/neck area, hence the dehydration...may require IV.
    
    	2. Upper chest and abdomen..basically insurance against any
    	   spreading.  This is what will cause nausea, although there is
           medication available to minimize this.
    
    The real devastating side effect will be fatique.  He'll have all he
    can do to get out of bed, let alone skate.  Typically, radiation
    treatments are now given late afternoon/early evening to allow the
    patient to sleep off the side effect.
    
    Chemo is another story all together.  Fortunately, Mario will likely
    not need it.
    
    Mark.

    MOre bad news for the Pens today.  
    
    Tom Barasso is out indefinitely, and he's flying back from Bahston
    right now.
    
    He's out with:
    
    THE CHICKEN POX!!!!!!!!!
    
    Sheez, where'll it end.
    
    JaKe
    

    Don't know whut the final was, but at the end of the second period, the
    Broons was killin'  the Pens, 5-0.
    
    JaKe
    

    fwiw final score was 7-0
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Chicken Pox for an adult can be pretty serious (or am I confusing it
with Mumps?).

At any rate, they said on WFAN last night he'd be out at least one week.


'Saw

    
> Chicken Pox for an adult can be pretty serious (or am I confusing it
> with Mumps?).
    
    Only if you're planning on reproducing, and even then it's not too big
    a deal.  Ruben Sierra had them last September and showed no ill effects
    in tearing the cover off the ball in the ALCS...
    
    glenn
    

	For a Pens fan this was like watching a group of college bench warmers
	being welcomed into the NHL by an NHL all star team.

	The Broons started early with the intimidation bait.  Toccett, Erry,
	and a few others took the bait, hook, line and sinker.  There were
	flourishes of some real good hockey for the Pens, but they came away
	empty. 

	Blue, in net for Boston, had a very good game.  That may sound like
	an understatment, but considering the few Shots-on (19, I think) he
	only had to make a few real sharp saves.  

	Wregget, at the other end, was like a sieve.  The defense was 
	confused, at best.  Two short handed goals and countless bad passes.
	Everyone sitting around me was asking me where Borasso was.  They 
	figured that since I was wearing a Penguin jersy, I would know what
	was going on, if they only knew.  I didn't know he had the Pox until
	I got into here this morning.  

	The thing that embarrassed me even more than their playing was the 
	ease in which the Pens lost their composure.  One instance comes to
	mind when Toccett was in the penalty box.  A Broon fan was standing 
	up, leaning over the plexiglass and giving Toccett a severe ration.
	After about 20 seconds Toccett wheels around and slaps at the glass
	with his stick.  This succeeded in bringing the security gaurds out 
	of nowhere, but also made things worse for an already bad situation.
	Before things could get completely quited down, another Penguin,  it 
	might have been Stevens, slapped at the glass with his stick in front
	of another overzealous fan.  It was all down hill from there. 

	Even Wreggett lost it when with 5.6 seconds left he forgot he was in 
	a hockey game and "gave" Reid his first NHL hatrick with a near open
	netter.  He then proceeded to throw a major league temper tantrum by
	slamming his slick into the ice until it shattered.  

	From talking to some people on the way out you would have thought that
	the Broons just won the Stanley Cup instead of severly spanking a 
	team on a physical, not to mention emotional, low.  I tried to expain
	that this was just "preseason", but I probably would have felt the 
	same way as them if the shoe was on the other foot.

	Hopefully when they return on March 27, they will make a better showing
	for themselves.

	Sorry about the rambling, I just need to get this off my chest.

	Bill

    re-.1  Ya gotta think, judging by their performance lasted night, the
    the Pens minds were not in the Gahden, but back here in Pgh. with
    absent comrades.
    
    Once back in Pgh, after examination, it turns out that Barasso didn't
    have the chicken pox, just some goofy viral infection that has just
    about cleared up, and he may be in net fer the Pens nexted game,
    tomorrow night, I think.
    
    The press conference was held today, concerning Mario.
    
    Mario was rather on the emotional side, fer a guy who's normally
    un-rattle-able.  he talked about having a cousin who died from Hodgkins
    disease about 15 years ago, and about two uncles who have died from
    cancers.  His first and foremost objectives are getting treatment and
    beating the disease, then he'll worry about hockey.
    
    Lemieux has a throat/upper respiratory infection right now and must
    undergo treatment with antibiotics to get rid of that before the
    radiation can start, and they said that will take two weeks, so it's
    March first bafore the treatments will over, meaning about the middle
    to the end of March before Mario may return.
    
    They had a female reporter who writes sports fer the Globe, cain't remember
    her name, who talked about her battle with Hodgkins(been in remission
    fer about 1-1/2 years now) and the effect of the radiation treatments
    on her.  She said that at times, the side effects were nothing more
    than a sore throat, and other times, she had to make a concerted effort
    just to get up out of a chair.
    
    Good Luck, Mario!!
    
    JaKe
    
    

>    Once back in Pgh, after examination, it turns out that Barasso didn't
>    have the chicken pox, just some goofy viral infection that has just
>    about cleared up, and he may be in net fer the Pens nexted game,
>    tomorrow night, I think.

He was just skeert to face da Broons!

    
>    Good Luck, Mario!!
    

AMEN!    
    

    
    Yabbut 
    
    While I don't usually wanna impinge (<-new word for loonies!) on
    Karen's stuff since I don't care about 'bout hookey, I wanna say that I
    really hope that Mario gets healthy and strong.  My son has Mario-1,
    Mario-2, and Mario-3 for his Nintendo, I'd really like him to get
    Mario-4 to complete the set.
    
    I remain,
    really twisted~~~~~~~~~
    Kev
    

    Rick Tocchett has been named to the all-star team as Lemieux's
    replacement.
    
    Word in the rags today is that recupe after radiation will probably
    take a month, that is to get his strength and stamina back, as long as
    everything goes well.
    
    JaKe
    

    Anyone got a list of who's going to the All-star game?

    Barasso in fact DOES have Chicken Pox(my daughter had them 2 weeks ago,
    now Robbie, my six year old has them, broke out Friday, and has them in
    places on his body that you DON'T want to have sore itchy blistery
    splotches) and will not accompany the team on the week long road trip.
    
    It is thought that he got them from one of his daughters.  Adults with
    Chicken Pox is a scary thang, cause it's easy fer it to turn to
    pneumonia or encephalitis(sp?).
    
    JaKe
    

    Great..... I have never had them..... Jesse's 4 1/2 and goes
    to pre-school 1 day a week... I wonder what the odds are of
    me getting them...
    
    REK

    REK
    
    My daughter had them, starting New Year's Eve.  The incubation period
    fer them is 2 weeks.  Two weeks from the day my daughter broke out,
    Robbie broke out.  
    
    We have friends whose kids also have them, or have had them over the
    lasted two weeks, all the kids that came down with it two weeks ago ALL
    were at the same function after school, and about 90% of the kids at
    that function broke out with them.
    
    Now, Robbie is in major pain/itching, and in two weeks, Nathan, the
    three year old will probably break out and he'll be a real bear while
    he's sick..
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>    <<< Note 33.30 by CSTEAM::FARLEY "Megabucks Winner Wannabee" >>>
    >>              -< c'pox beats poison ivy by a mile though >-
    
    Sure, on the arms legs and stomach and back, BUT, my son has it where
    the only way fer you to get poison ivy would be to answer nature's call
    in the woods, using a crouched position.  Poor kid is in mucho pain. 
    My wife took him to the doctor this afternoon and they gave him some
    potent medicine to take the itch away, and help him relax his sphincter
    a little.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
      About Tocchett replacing Mario, since Mario was elected by the
    fans as a center, shouldn't he be replaced by a center?
    
    A Bruin fan thinking Poulin got robbed.

    
    ...Hey JaKe,
              
      The latest from the rumor-wire is that Jagr is going to
      Winnipeg for Selanne & Domi. You heard anything out your way?
    
    ...Mel

If .33 is true that is great news - as long as you are not a Penguin
fan.

The Crazy Met

re: Jagr trade

	I sure hope this is just more bogus New Yawk dribble.

Bill

Hey, chill out Bill :-) It was a Bostonian who posted that rumor :-)

The Crazy Met

    they had Craig Patrick on a talk show lasted week here in the 'burgh,
    and that rumor came up and they asked him what's up and why the Pens
    would want to trade Jagr.
    
    Patrick stated that the Pens have ABSOLUTELY NO intention of trading
    Jagr in the foreseeable future.
    
    So, now that it's been squashed, the trade'll probably be made Friday.
    
    JaKe
    

>>Hey, chill out Bill :-) It was a Bostonian who posted that rumor :-)

>>The Crazy Met

	Hey, I kew that, TCC, er I mean TCM, I just couldn't pass up the 
	chance to take a jab at ya.  

	Bill

re: .38

Bill "I'm a Mets fan" Long

yup, I knew that, hence the :-)

The Crazy Met

    
    sorry to interrupt dis but hez a noo yawka hooz hea ferawile.
    
    Aint a bostonyan adalll!
    
    

    The Penguins played the Caps lasted night.  They spotted the Caps a 2
    goal lead early in the first period, then went on a spree, scoring 3
    goals in 29 seconds, and eventually winning 6-3.
    
    Barasso is due back soon from his bout wif chicken pox(my three kids
    all had it in a matter of 3 weeks, and it ain't pretty).
    
    No word on Mario's condition right now.
    
    JaKe
    

    Almost a month ago, just after Mario had been diagnosed as having
    Hodgkin's disease, the Pens went into Bahstahn Gahdahn to play the
    Broons.  The Broons caught the Pens still down over the news about
    Mario, and shut the Pens out, 7-0.
    
    Tonight, in a "home away from home" game at the Omni in Atlanta, the
    Pens showed that they were not rusty from the 8 day layoff, and that
    they've recovered from the news on Mario, and dumped the Broons, 4-0.
    
    JaKe
    

Was Barasso back in goal last night?  After watching Wregett at the gaaden
back in mid January they were lucky to go 5-3-1 since then with that "human
sieve"

Bill

    Wreggett played all but the lasted ~5 minutes(he took a puck to the
    haid and required a sewing machine).  Barasso played the lasted 5 min.
    
    Kenny has come on pretty good in Barasso's absence.  The game he got
    blown out in was the firsted game after the bad news on Mario and
    everybody on the team played like zombie's from Night of the Living
    Dead.  The team has gotten over the news and is playing just as good as
    ever now.
    
    JaKe
    

    Barasso shines in goal, and the Pens post their second straight shut
    out, this time beating the New Yuck Rangers, 3-0 in Madison Square
    Garbagedump....er....Garden.
    
    The Pens are 33-0-3 when they hold the lead at the beginning fo the
    third period.
    
    JaKe
    

	What the hail happened in the game against Chicago on Saturday?

	I had just come in to a bar in the afternoon and they were showing
	"highlights" of the game.  All I saw was Chelios being pummeled by
	4 or 5 Penguins who were still in their bench area while another
	Pen was giving him what-for from the ice.

	Anyone know what led up to this fine exhibition of hockey?

	As best I could tell the Pens won the hockey game and the WWF, too.

	Bill

    
    ...It all started when Roenick got "Ulf-ed"
    
    ...Mel

    Dunno, 'bout the bout in the game, but the Pens did win it, 4-1, as the
    Black Hawks ended the shutout string the Pens had put up at a NEW CLUB
    RECORD 183+ minutes.
    
    The Pens then went to Buffalo yesterday, jumped out to a 3 goal lead,
    then Wreggett turned into a sieve and gave up 7 goal, and the Pens lost
    7-4.
    
    FWIW, halfway thru his radiation treatments, Mario has been practicing
    with the team two or three days a week, and many who attend these
    practices say he is showing little or no signs of losing anything due
    to the radiation treatments.  
    
    JaKe
    

    From what I read in an SI article about Mario, the radiation treatments
    aren't all that bad.  It's the chemotherapy that has to be done if the
    radiation doesn't work that really knocks you out.

	Saw the last period of Sunday's Penguin-Whaler game.  Barasso was
	lookin' pretty sharp.  With the win he beat the club record (which
	just so happened to be his own, too) for wins in a single season.

	Looks like the mumps didn't slow him down at all.

	Bill

>	Saw the last period of Sunday's Penguin-Whaler game.  Barasso was
>	lookin' pretty sharp.  With the win he beat the club record (which
>	just so happened to be his own, too) for wins in a single season.
>
>	Looks like the mumps didn't slow him down at all.

He was the difference between getting out of there with the 'W' and not.
The Whalers were working really hard to tie it up.

The Whalers by the way had two hat tricks in two games.  Verbeek on
Saturday, Sanderson on Sunday.....

'Saw

>	Looks like the mumps didn't slow him down at all.
    
    Minor nit, it was chicken pox.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens lost lasted night, 3-1(Devils???).  Their division lead has
    dwindled to 11 points.  Mario finishes treatment Friday and should be
    back within 1-2 weeks.
    
    JaKe
    

I heard an interview on WFAN with former NY Giants tackle Karl Nelson, whose
career was cut short by the same kind of cancer that Mario Lemieux has.

They were asking Nelson about Mario's intention of returning to play, and
Nelson had this to say.  I'll paraphrase, because I don't have EXACT
quotes:

	When I came to [If I remember right, he had surgery], my
	FIRST thought was "can I play again".  Not "will I live", but
	"can I play again".  I began rehab and pushed myself to return
	to play.   Hodgkins is 95% curable I was told, so I was determined
	to play.

	I'm convinced that the recurrance of the disease was because I
	stressed myself to return to play.  Stress seems to play in
	important part in whether or not the disease recurs.  I talked
	with Dan Blatnick (the Olympic wrestler) about this recently.

	I beat the disease a second time because my goals were much
	more realistic -- to make sure my wife had a husband, and my
	children had a father.

	So when you ask if Mario can come back, I think it has a lot
	to do with the stress he places on himself, and would tell him
	not to rush it.


Nelson had some informative things to say about the Giants too, but that's
for another note....


'Saw

    The Pens lost tonite 2-1 after taking a 1-0 ead int the 3rd period.  It
    marked the first loss the Pens have suffered this year when they
    entered the third period leading.   The sad part is that they lost to
    the Ottawa Senators, at Ottawa, yuck!!!!!!
    
    BTW, what's the similarity between the Ottawa Senators and
    groundhogs????
    
    They both get killed on the road!!!!!
    
    The Pens have now lost 5 of their last 6 games.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens blew another 2 goal lead Saturday .vs. Tampa Bay, but ended up
    getting a tie out of it.  Yesterday, they beat the Wash. Caps to push
    their division lead to 14 points.
    
    Mario finishes radiation treatment tomorrow, and could be back on the
    ice Friday.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Ok, here's th poop.
    
    Mario had his lasted radiation treatment early this morning, and then
    just before noon, he caught a flight fer Philthydelfia and will be
    suited up and play tonite.
    
    Rumor has it that Jaromir Jagr will be back fer tonites game, also.
    
    GO PENS!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Time to dig up all those "nice" things said about Neely's return and
    substitute Mario's name?

    
    >>           <<< Note 33.59 by PATE::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>

    >>Time to dig up all those "nice" things said about Neely's return and
    >>substitute Mario's name?
    
    Nah, Mario returns from a bout, be it ever so minor, with cancer, Neely
    returned from milking a minor injury fer what seemed like a lifetime.
    
    Neely couldn't carry Mario's jock if he had to.
    
    JaKe
    

   
    
   << Nah, Mario returns from a bout, be it ever so minor, with cancer, Neely
   << returned from milking a minor injury fer what seemed like a lifetime.
    
    Is this how it's being played in the Pittsburgh, er West Virginny
    papers?  I think that any bout with cancer should not be considered
    minor.
    And I'll take the bait JaKe. Milking a "minor" injury?  A calcified
    mass in the thigh causing Cam to miss almost a full year? Followed by
    the more serious knee injury causing him to miss another full year?
    I think not.
    
    >>Neely couldn't carry Mario's jock if he had to.
    
    Ain't too many people in the history of the league who could carry
    Mario's jock. Where has this issue been raised in this or other topics?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    JaKe
    

    >>Is this how it's being played in the Pittsburgh, er West Virginny
    >>papers?  I think that any bout with cancer should not be considered
    >>minor.
    
    True, I guess I used the wrong wording.  What I meant to state was that
    it was found VERY early and is not(to anybody's knowledge) going to be
    life threatening.
    
    
    >>								A calcified
    >>mass in the thigh causing Cam to miss almost a full year? Followed by
    >>the more serious knee injury causing him to miss another full year?
    
    Doctors'll say anything if ya pay 'em enuf.  Cam was milking it(get it,
    milk has calcium, calcified mass, ya know).
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Mario returns, he saw limited action(see "power play") and also played
    a few regular shifts.  He had a goal and an assist, but most of all, he
    helped the anemic Penguins power play, which had gone sumthin like 3
    fer 38 over the lasted 6 or 8 games.  They went 3 fer 5 tonite, whilst
    killing all of Philthydelfia's power plays.  They were down 3-1, then
    fought back and ended the 2nd pd tied 4-4, but gave aup a goal late and
    lost 5-4.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    Pens lost to the New Yuck RAngers 2nite, 3-1.  Mario saw VERY limited
    action(see just a couple of power plays) and the Pens fer the most part
    had no punch.
    
    PEns nexted game is Tuesday .vs. the Broons.
    
    JaKe
    

    No, but they had a good shot in the ribs...
    

    Appears that Mario missed most of the Rangers game because of problems
    wif his back, not problems caused by his return after radiation
    treatments.
    
    Pens .vs. Broons tomorrow night, the Broons will be wifout Cammy
    Neelhead whose faking his knee still hurst so's he don't get pounded on
    his butt by Ulfie again.
    
    JaKe
    

    Yeah FaKey,
    Cam hoid the rumors that Ulfie's stick blade had "Deliver to Cam' knee"
    on it as a special return gift. Neelmonster declined.
    
    8^)
    MikeL
    

    
    	Wasn't that Ulfie I saw taking a sweet right cross from 
    	Messier the other night?  
    
    Claybroon

    Yup,
    Ulfie led with the shtick to Messier's bad back whilst he was facing
    the boards. But dat's just clean hardnosed defensive hokey. ba
    
    MikeL
    

    And Messier followed sif a stick to UlfMeister's face.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Broons lasted night, 3-2. Joey Mullen led the Pens wif 2
    goals.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the L.A.Kings tonight, 4-3 in OT.  Jaromir Jagr got the game
    winner, deflecting home a shot by Larry Murphy.  Mario had 4 points to
    start working his way back towards winning the scoring title.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Washington Caps tonite, 7-5.  Mario worked hard towards
    closing the gap between himself and Pat ThreecoinsinLaFontaine,
    getting 4 goals and 2 assists, fer a six point night.  It was the 8th
    time in Lemieux's career that he has scored 4 goals.
    
    Tom Barasso kept the Caps scoreless until shortly into the third
    period, then left the game once the Pens went up 6-1.  Kenny Wreggett
    did his imitation of goal tending naked, allowing 4 goals in just over
    half a period, turning what was a laugher into a sorta close game.
    
    
    The Pens have now won 4 straight, and HOPEFULLY, are startinig to fine
    tune their game fer the playoffs.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Pens whipped up on the Phlyers lasted night, 9-3.  Mario had his second
    consecutive 4 goal night, and it was the first time in his career he
    had consecutive hat tricks.  He had 5 points fer the niht, giving him
    11 points in the lasted 2 games.  He trails Pat threecoinsinLaFountaine
    by 8 points now.
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Edmonton Oilers lasted night on the brown ice in
    Clevescum, 6-4.
    
    Mario and Kevin Stevens got their 50th goals of the season.
    
    The Pens forged ahaid of the Canadiens as far as most points goes.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens made two trades yesterday.
    
    First, they traded a third round draft pick to Tampon Bay fer Peter
    Taglianette(sp?), who was drafted from the Pens in the expansion draft,
    and second, they traded Bob Errey to ??Philly?? fer some defenseman
    whose name escapes me at this time.
    
    JaKe
    

    'scuse me scroo up.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens won tonight, 7-2.  NO details, the radio here in the building
    broke.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
       I was wondering why the Penguins would trade somebody as valuable as
    Errey for a washed up D like Ramsey.  Granted Ramsey was very good for
    years but those are long since gone.  They stripped the "C" and gave it
    to that little Geek Lafontaine and of all the Sabres - B's games I don't
    think he as dressed yet.  On the other hand Errey seemed to me a big
    part of the Penquins team.  A consistant 20 goal guy the was an
    excellent penalty killer.  Anything I'm missing?? Besides that rumor
    about him being the one Jagar refering to about small salary and
    Tocchett had to set him straight.
    
    
    Jerry

    
    ...Sounds like a question for: "Ask JaKe"

LaFountaine played lasted night against the Bruins, but was stonewalled
by ANDY MOOG!


'Saw

	Gettin' back to da Pens....

	The Pens are the first team to reach 100 points this year with
	a win over da Debils last night.  This team seems to be peakin' 
	at just the right time again.


	Billl

    Yup,
    I agree Billl. When healthy, they are the strongest t6eam in the NHL
    by a large degree. If they continue with Mario amazing everyone, I
    realistically can't see anyone dethroning them. The only galling thang
    is that Ulf the Ultimate Pengoon gets a third ring. Good things
    happening to bad people. 
    
    So what's the chatter in Steeltown about the Errey for Ramsey trade?
    Hell I thought Errey was a key contributor to the 'Goons. Is their
    "d" a little suspect in that they need Ramsey?  Seems that Ramsey has
    slipped the last couple of years. What's the poop, JaKe?
    
    MikeL
    

	MikeL,  I'm not sure about Ramsey, but as far as Errey goes I suspect
	he just didn't fit into the mold the Pens were hopin' for.  Hail,
	he's a good 10 inches shorter, not to mention a whole person lighter, 
	that the rest of them mainly Pens.  Kinda like havein' Kev as an 
	American Gladiator.

	No 'fence, Kev.

	Billl

    Yabbut Billl,
    Like Kev, Errey's a tough leetle buzzard. Penalty killin', in yo' face,
    fast and scored 20-odd goals. Mebbe they miss Gord Roberts?
    
    MikeL
    

    MikeL,
    
    I haven't had a chance to listen to any sports shows, or read the paper
    recently, so I don't know what the local opine is.  Personally, I liked
    Errey, and know nothing about Ramsey.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens beat the Broons today 5-3.  
    
    billl
    

    The PENS beat the Caps yesterday, winning in the process the Patrick
    Div. title fer the second time in 3 years.  Mario also flashed past Pat
    "Three Coins in" Lafountaine fer the scoring title race, and leads him
    by 1 point right now.
    
    JaKe
    

	JaKe,

	If you're lookin' for a real chuckle check out RUBY::BOSTON_BRUINS.
	I'm sure you'll get as big a kick out of readin' the dribble about
	Neely as I do.  Not only do they blame Ulfie for knockin' Camile
	out for two years (something Cam has disputed himself), but now
	they blame the ref for tossin' Cam outa the game on Saturday.  I
	guess these guys figure Camile can do no wrong.

	billl

re: .93 no surprise. Most of those folks probably defended everything
Clemens did in the 1990 ALCS in the game he got thrown out of. They also 
probably defended the cheapshot Parish(I think it was Parish) took against
one of the Lakers  (I think - don't remember all the details) in a playoff
game a number of years back (1984?)

The Crazy Met

    
    Homerism at it's best. Sickening, really. Objectivity is non existent.
    
    -TH

>    Homerism at it's best. Sickening, really. Objectivity is non existent.
    
Yeah, but how many fans are that objective?

Remember the Mario vs Gretzky wars in here a few years ago?  Not too many
objective folks in here then.......


'Saw

    CAMwuss instigated BIGTIME Saturday, at least by what I've heard/read
    yesterday and today.
    
    JaKe
    

    Samuelson did his job.  He got Neely booted on a bum call from the
    ref.  There was no fight, so he shouldn't have gotten the boot for 
    instigating a fight.  The refs should have let them go, to get the
    matter over and done with.
    
    At least Neely did get a chance to put Samuelson on his arse with a
    nice early in the game.
    
    					Steve

    
    >>At least Neely did get a chance to put Samuelson on his arse with a
    >>nice early in the game.
    
    Just curious, but what's a "nice early"????
    
    JaKe
    

    Re: .95
    
    It wasn't Parish.  It was a McHale clothesline of Rambis.  
    
    Re: .100
    
    Use your imagination (for something other than a sick sense of humor
    that is).
    
    					Steve

    I didn't catch the game but from what I've heard and read, Neely got
    a bad deal getting the bum's rush. The ref even admitted that he
    missed Sameuelsson startibg with the jabs to the haid.
    Having said that, I'm concerned that Neely will continue to jeopardize
    his team's chances by flying off the handle when Samuelsson is near
    him. He should accept the fact that when on the power play and in the
    slot, he's gonna get sliced and diced by no matter who is on "d".
    Come playoff time, Neely better put all thoughts of revenge outta his
    haid till next year. Samuelsson is no dummy and he knows exactly what
    he is doing and ya better believe the refs are on the lookout for Neely
    to get at Ulf.  Cam oughtta pay Darin Kimble a couple centuries to
    do the tomahawk chop to Ulf.
    
    MikeL
    

re: Clemens and the LCS

Actually there was a lot of criticism around that act.  A lot of folks (myself
included) think he was wrong to have pushed things, AND that the ump was wrong
for booting him.

re: McHale's closeline on Rambis

Those guys had been going at it all series, and Rambis was playing the role of 
Ulfie there.  In a heated series like that things got out of control.  If 
McHale hadn't taken down Rambis, Rambis would have taken down McHale.

re: Neeley

This is a different matter.  For some reason Broons fans think this guy's feces
resembles orange sherbert.  I didn't see the game, (I don't watch hokey until
the playoffs) but the papers had been building up the confrontation for a long
time.

=Bob=

	I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it is that Neeley feels
	he has to "get Samuelson back" for.  Cam admitted in the local press
	that it was not the check that Samuelson gave him that put him OFF
	the ice for two years, but rather the MISSED vicious hit by Neeley
	when he slammed himself into the boards.  

	As long as the Broons and Neeley (and the fans for that matter) 
	dwell on this revenge b.s. the Broons are doomed to fold in the playoffs.

	billl

>	As long as the Broons and Neeley (and the fans for that matter) 
>	dwell on this revenge b.s. the Broons are doomed to fold in the playoffs.

Actually, I wonder how much of this has been blown up out of proportion
in the press.

It's not secret one cannot stand the other, and like someone before
said, things get pretty heated in the slot.  

For my money, this probably had nothing to do with any grudge, but more
to do with Ulf's constant bullshit cheap-shot tactics, than any past
grievance.


And for that matter, my hat is off to Ulf because the little shit did
just what he set out to do (and has publicly has admitted to attempting
to do every time he sets out on the ice) -- he got another team's star
player totally off his game to the point where the guy got tossed.


It's nothing new.  I watched Paul Gilles (I believe) do it to perfection
with Kevin Dineen in the Whalers-Queebs series, the year that the Whalers
won the Adams Division.  

The only difference between Gilles and Samuelsson is that Ulf is a little
bit better hokey player....



'Saw

Well now lets see if the NHL treats the Neely-Samuelson battle, that 
everyone seems to have expected - ie premeditiation -  like they did
the Domi-Probert fight earlier this year.

The Crazy Met


> re: McHale's closeline on Rambis
> 
> Those guys had been going at it all series, and Rambis was playing the role of 
> Ulfie there.  In a heated series like that things got out of control.  If 
> McHale hadn't taken down Rambis, Rambis would have taken down McHale.

there still defending it. why am I not amazed :-)

The Crazy Met

re: there

I noticed that after I put in the reply and it was too much of a pain
to delete it and edit the reply.

The Crazy Met

re .105 > Actually, I wonder how much of this has been blown up out of proportion
	> in the press.

	Actually 'Saw, after attending the Jan 14, 7-0 drubbing of the Pens
	at the Gahhden, I'd be hard pressed not to say it is the general
	feeling of Broons' fans.  They seem to think revenge first and
	winning the game second.  If that has carried on to players then
	I'd have to say that the Ulfmeister is a huge success.

	billl

>	Actually 'Saw, after attending the Jan 14, 7-0 drubbing of the Pens
>	at the Gahhden, I'd be hard pressed not to say it is the general
>	feeling of Broons' fans.  


Oh, I don't doubt a lot of the fans have that attitude.


>	If that has carried on to players then
>	I'd have to say that the Ulfmeister is a huge success.

I think Ulf has had that attitude as long as he has played the game.  He's
always tried to be very chippy (cheap?) in order to get the other team's
good players off their game.  Saturday, it definitely worked....

He admitted as much in the SI interview....


'Saw

    
    >>Use your imagination (for something other than a sick sense of humor
    >>that is).
    
    Hey, I resemble part of that remark!!!!  (8^)*
    
    Actually, if what you're terming "sick" is the p_name I used elsewhere
    in this conference, I was not the one that came up with it in the
    firsted place, I sorta borrowed it.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Ya know Bill,
    Many of the Gahden faithful are very knowledgeable, hokey-wise, but
    there is definitely an element that seem to be thj=e descendants of the
    ol' Roman Colisuem crowd.... as fer me I like the occasional jousting
    ( really ain't a fighting fan) that comes with this sport, but gimmee
    that Stanley Coupe anyday.  Now it's time for Cam and the Broons to
    concentrate on what really matters and stop playing into others' hands
    ( ya better believe the Broons opposition in da playoffs will attempt
    some Ulfthuggery in order to git Cam off his game). Ferget Chickenulf,
    Cam, and if they really want to git him, bring up some knuckle-scraper
    to give Ulfie a taste_a_his own medicine next year. Ya know, a little
    knee to the knee, stick to the throat, crosscheck to the back, slash
    to the ankles so to speak. Make Ulfie feel at home 8^)
    
    Do I sound like a Coliseumer or not?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

    I get a kick out of some of you guys.  You let your opinions be known
    even after throwing out that qualifier of objectivity, "I didn't see 
    the game, but".  If ya didn't see what happened how can you point
    fingers?
    
    Neely got thrown out of the game on a bad call.  
    
    It's true that the illegal leg check that Samuelson threw his way 2
    years ago isn't what put his livelihood in jeopardy, but it is why he 
    went flying 25mph into the boards when it was payback time for the Goof.  
    He still obviously doesn't feel he's paid him back.
    
    Having said that, I think you'll see Neely being Mr. Cool out there if
    the Bruins do meet the Penguins again.  I'm sure he realizes that the
    Goof won that round going away, and he won't let it happen again.
    
    					Steve

    The exercise in futility fer the Ottawa Senators tonight, as they lost
    to the Pens, who won their 11th straight(or is it 12th??), 7-4.
    
    Ron Francis had 2 goals and one assist, raising his season totals to 22
    gaosl, 70 assists fer 92 points.
    
    Larry Murphy had his 19th career two goal game.  He has never had a hat
    trick.
    
    Mario Lemieux had 1 goal and one assist, to widen his lead over Pat
    LaFountaine, who had no points tonight, to 3 points fer the scoring
    race.
    
    The Pens magic # fer winning the President's Trophy is 7.  Any
    combination of the Pens winning of 7 points, or the Montreal Canadiens
    losing 7 oints and the Pens win it.
    
    The win tonight by the Pens was their 50th, most in franchise history.
    They have lost 21 games, and tied 6, for 106 points, also a franchise
    high.
    
    JaKe
    

	Yup, that's 12 in a row.  This team appears to be peaking at
	precisly the right time of the year, just before the real season 
	starts.


	billl

    Forgot to mention that Lemieux is the NHL's "Player of the week" fer
    the lasted two weeks in a row.
    
    JaKe
    

	Anybody catch what happened in last night's game against the Whalers?
	I don't know if it was an April Fools joke, but someone told me last 
	night that they carried Mario off on a stretcher.

	Whassup?

	billl

>	Anybody catch what happened in last night's game against the Whalers?
>	I don't know if it was an April Fools joke, but someone told me last 
>	night that they carried Mario off on a stretcher.

Was probably an April Fools' HOAX on you Bill.

My brother watched the game, and I KNOW he would have called me up 
if something had happened to Mario.


At one point McEchern was hurt though - don't know how badly.....


''saw

	That's what I was hopin'.  How many points did Super Mario get?

	billl

>	That's what I was hopin'.  How many points did Super Mario get?

I don't know.  My brother stopped calling me after the 4th goal....


'Saw

    	Shame on you BigMac!  Didn't you know only Celtic fans use
    revisionist history?
    
    				/Don

    re: Mac - glad you're back :-) Since I was not sure of the facts I put
    in the qualifiers in my note.
    
    re: .126 Glenn I don't recall ever defending the wild actions of the
    Mets either on or off the field. Yeah the off field behavior by some of
    them was atrocious; some on the field behavior was pretty bad as well.
    Now what was that you said about Clemens??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    >>    <<< Note 33.122 by MKFSA::LONG "I got friends in low places" >>>

    >>	That's what I was hopin'.  How many points did Super Mario get?
    
    Mario had 3 pernts.  2 Goals and one assist, to leap frog past
    LaFountane.  his lead in the scoring race is 2 points.
    
    The Pens magic # fer winning the President's Trophy is 3.
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens cemented their hold on the President's Trophy this weekend wif
    two victories.
    
    Mario lengthened his lead over Lafontaine to 7 points. 
    
    the Pens two victories this weekend tied them fer the second longest
    winning streak(14 games) in the history of the NHL.  At this point they
    are tied wif the 1920sumthin Bahstan Broons.
    
    They cain tie the alltime record, set by the Islanders in 1982?, wif a
    win over the Montreal Canadiens in their nexted game, although that
    ain't an easy task.
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

    re -1,
    
    	With a little help from Poulin....
    
    /Ron

>    	With a little help from Poulin....
    
One of the craftiest veteran players around.....

    Ulf Samuelsson scored a goal in OT to push the Pens past the Canadiens
    tonite.
    
    The Pens have now tied the all-time NHL consecutive win record of 15
    games, and have a chance to set a new record Friday night .vs. the
    Rangers.
    
    Hey Younze Bahstan Broons fans, it was Ulfie's goal in OT that allowed
    the Broons to have firsted place over the Habs.
    
    Rick Tocchett has a hat trick, and got an assist on the final goal fer
    a 4 point night.
    
    Mario had an assist to push his lead fer the scoring title to 9 points
    over LaFontaine.
    
    The Pens-Canadiens game tonight was like 2 20 game winners scoring off
    in a baseball game.  Very well played, and exciting.
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    	Wow!  Ulfie used his stick for something other than criminal
    assault?  Next somebody will tell me the Red Sox are undefeated.
    
    				/Don

It is a sad sad day for us Ranger fans when happiness around playoff time
will be beating or tying the Pens on Friday night to stop them from getting
the record for wins in a row. Against all odds I truly hope they massacre the
Pens on Friday night.

btw Pens got the Presidents Cup last night. Pens, Canadians, Bruins all
have 100 points. Detroit, Chicago, Toronto, Are all very close. I don't
think 6 teams have ever had 100 points in the same season. Also, Pens now
have 114 points. Record is 120+ by Montreal, anyone now the exact number?
Montreal lost 9 games that whole season.

The Crazy Met

>>It is a sad sad day for us Ranger fans when happiness around playoff time
>>will be beating or tying the Pens on Friday night to stop them from getting
>>the record for wins in a row. Against all odds I truly hope they massacre the
>>Pens on Friday night.	                ^^^
					 |

			you ain't just whislin' Dixie!

	GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!


	billl

    Wow!
    Are the Rangers really tankin' it? From Stanley Cup hopefuls last year
    to almost outta the playoffs. "The Whistle" I am glad to say, is not
    amused.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    ...Hey, I thought that Messier guy was supposed to be the second
    coming of Korash, er,..um, I mean that other guy with the beard.
    
    ...Mel

    The PENs beat the Rangers like a rented mule lasted night, 10-4.
    
    Mario had 5 goals, and Joey Mullen had a hat trick as the PENS
    established a new NHL record for consecutive wins at 16 games.  They
    play the Rangers again tonight in the Igloo.
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens beat the Rangers AGAIN on Saturday, 4-2.  Mario was held
    scoreless fer the first time in 17 games, dating back to the lasted
    loss the Pens had. 
    
    They have now won 17 straight, and close out the season this week
    versus, I think, the NJ Devils.
    
    Ron Francis was awarded the teams "Unsung Hero" award, having silently
    compiled a 100+ point season, the best in his 12 year career.
    
    GO PENS!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    5 Goals, Yikes !
    
    -TH

    17 wins in a row and counting.... truly awesome. Anybody who
    understands hockey knows what an amazing feat this is. Heartfelt
    congrats and respect.
    
    Us B's fans are all a swoon looking at the great hockey the B's
    have played capturing home ice in the Adams and how they have
    the big mo' going into tghe playoffs.... one needs only take
    a peek at the Pens to see hockey on a higher plane. With no
    slight to the Broons or anyone else, methinks it's going to take
    an act of God to beat the Pens if they continue to play this way.
    But that's why they play the games!
    
    MikeL
    

>    an act of God to beat the Pens if they continue to play this way.

Ah, Mike, in case you hadn't noticed (perhaps because Sutter rested him
last night), God HAS been playing goal for the Bruins......


hth, 
'Saw    

	Nice try at the old KOD MikeL.  I'm hopin' even a ND alum doesn't
	have that good a contact.  If'n yunz know what I mean.

	billl

re: .146

why do you think we don't have a Knicks note :-)

The Crazy Met

100 POINT UNSUNG HERO?  THAT'S FRANCIS

from The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 4-12-1993

by

Gerry Dulac


	It isn't the years that have changed Ron Francis, the Penguins center
who has inherited wisps of steel-gray hair quicker than Charlton Heston in "The
Ten COmmandments."  It is the team.
	Blink, and therefore he is, in the unifrorm of the Hartford
Whalers--one minute their saviour, the next minute expendable baggage.  Blink
again, and there he is Saturday night, receiving an award that points up once
again the precise reason the Penguins acquired him from the Whalers two years
ago.
	"You take a guy with 100 points and give him the unsung hero," said
teammate Ulf Samuelsson, "you know you're on a pretty good team."
	Francis received the team's unsung hero award before the Penguins 4-2
victory against the New York Rangers, which extended their league record
winning streak to 17 games.  Even Francis, 30, conceded it was an honor he was
not likely to have ever won in Hartford.
	In Hartford, Francis could not blend in with talented teammates and
play textbook hockey at both ends of the ice and still have a shot to post his
best point total in 12 National Hockey League seasons.  In Hartford, Francis
was, essentially, the only talent.  He was everything from team captain to
locker-room leader to power-play specialist to penalty killer.
	The Penguins changed their stagnant history when they acquired Francis
with Samuelsson and defenseman Grant Jennings in the fortuitous trade in 1991.
	"When I got here, [late former coach] Bob Johnson sat me down and told
me this kid by the name of Mario Lemieux was the No. 1 centerman," Francis
said.  "That didn't mean my job wasn't going to be important and he was going
to count on me more defensively.  But that's kind of what I tried to do.  I
tried to be very solid defensively, with faceoffs and so on, but at the same
time I didn't want to give up on my offense."
	With only Wednesday night's game against the New Jersey Devils
remaining before the start of the playoffs, Francis is one of four Penguins
players with at least 100 points.  Francis reached the century mark with two
assists in Friday's 10-4 victory against the Rangers in New York, giving him a
career high 76 assists.
	Francis was held without a point Saturday, but he needs two points
against the Devils to surpass his single season best of 101 points set in the
1989-90 season.
	And yet while Francis recorded 26 points in 13 of the past 17 games,
his numbers, quite fittingly, are lost in the glare cast by the Penguins
historic winning streak, not to mention Lemieux's staggering run (51 points in
the past 17 games) at the league scoring title.
	"This is a very talented hockey club," Francis said.  "Wioth guys like
Lemieux, Stevens, Jagr, Barrasso, there are a lot of players on the club who
kind of live in the shadows.  That doesn't make those guys any less important."
	And it is why Francis can perform in such an indomitable manner.  That
Francis is an unsung hero speaks volumes as to the talent amassed on the
Penguins roster.
	"I just can't say enough good things about him," Samuelsson said.  "AS
good as he is on the ics, he's probably got more leader qualities than anyone
I've played with in my whole career.  He'll do anything for anyone on your
team."
	"I've always tried to play this way,"  Francis said.  "The bottom linie
is, when the team is successful, that's when the recognition comes.  We've had
a lot of success, we've won two Cups, you get a lot more praise.  In Hartford,
I felt I did a lot of similar things."
	Except be unsung.

					Gerry Dulac




JaKe

    Pens and Debbils in old fashioned shoot-out.
    
    End of 2, 6-5 Debbils.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens winning streak ended tonight at 17 games as the Pens tied the New
    Jerkey Debbils, 6-6 in OT.
    
    Mario had 2 goals.  
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens almost won on a shot with 5 seconds left in OT.
    
    Islanders play Devils in their final game. Loser gets to play Pens in
    the first round. Caps clinched 2nd place tonight with a 2-0 win over
    the hapless and pathetic Rangers.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Thanks for posting that Jake.

Ronnie Francis is still a class guy, and still a personal favorite.


'Saw

	I know you are all just chomping at the bit for some trivia, so
	here goes...

	Guess which NHL team ended the regular season the same way they
	started, with a tie.

	Hint:  the are the odds on favorite to win the Stanley Cup


	billl

    
         I'm gonna go way way out on a limb and guess that it's those
        mighty schmucks - the Penguins. Am I right? Am I? Am I?
    

	Congrats Tommy!!!!!!!!!!!

	Now don't get too excited that was no Million dollar shot and
	you ain't wearin' yellow shoes.


	billl

    I think there's only one thang that cain stop the Pens from getting
    their third straight Cup,
    
    
    
    
    Complacency.
    
    
    If they keep their heads in the game, they should sail thru the
    playoffs.  If they take ANYBODY lightly, AT ALL, then it could be time
    to set up Tee Times, real fast.
    
    JaKe
    

    I heard Jake was wearin' yellow shoes, but that was after he had to
    relieve himself on the side of the highway...
    

I don't see the Pens sailing through the playoffs.

I remember a year when EVERYBODY in the Free World was proclaiming the
same thing about a team from Baltimore, who had a crew-cut QB.

Some leetle team came outta nowhere, with a brash long-haired Alabama
boy at the helm, and they made history.


Besides, some goon from the Patrick Division will take Mario out
and that will be that....


'Saw

    I can't recall the exact year, but am pretty sure I have the rest 
    correct. Back in the early 1980's when the Islander won 4 straight
    Stanley Cups they played the Pens in the opening round. Pens took the
    Islanders to a 7th game and had a 3-1 lead VERY late in the 3rd period.
    Somehow the Islanders tied the game then won in OT. Islanders then
    proceeded to fly through the rest of the playoffs. If the Pens have
    serious problems it could very well be in the early rounds against
    Patrick division opponents. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Okay, so maybe "sail thru the playoffs" was the wrong phrase, but, I
    think (hope) they cain play the kind of hockey they've played fer the
    lasted month or so, going unbeaten in 18 games.  Not to say tehy won't
    ge tbeat in the playoffs, but I think they cain limit the series to 6
    games max if they play with their haids on straight.  Then again, if
    the breaks go the wrong way, it'll be a long summer.
    
    JaKe
    

    Here's hoping that jaKe has a very long summer.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    >>              <<< Note 33.163 by ACESMK::FRANCUS "ABP" >>>

    >>Here's hoping that jaKe has a very long summer.
    
    >>The Crazy Met
    
    Well, it started out pretty good yesterday as the Pens opened the
    playoffs with a 6-3 drubbing of the New Jerkey Debbils.
    
    MArio had 2 goals and 2 assists.
    
    Didn't get to see much of the game, only some of the firsted period
    until the Pens went up 2-1, cause I took the JaKesters out to drown
    some worms yesterday.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    

    FWIW, with the win Sunday .vs. the Debbils, the Pens have tied the NHL
    record fer consecutive playoff wins at 12 games.
    
    Pens have had one helluva season, as far as breakin' records, both team
    and league, goes.
    
    JaKe
    

    End of 1, Pens lead Debbils, 2-0.  Shawn McEachern had the firsted
    goal, and Mario took a pass from Tom Barrasso and took it in on a
    short-handed goal.
    
    JaKe
    

    End of 2, Pens 6, Debbils 0.
    
    Goals in 2nd period:  Tocchett, Jagr, Stevens, McEachern.
    
    GO PENS!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Final,
    
    Pens 	7
    Debbils 	0
    
    Barrasso gets the shutout, and has assists in his lasted five games.
    
    The Pens have now set a new record for consecutive playoff victories,
    that record now being 13 and it cain still get bigger.
    
    Scoring in the fourth, Joey Mullen.
    
    Mario had 1 point.
    
    Ron Francis had 4 points.
    
    On to New Jerkey fer the nexted two.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Devils were embarassed. Pens totally outplayed them in every way.
    
    ESPN switched to Caps-Islanders late in the 3rd. That turned out to be
    a great game. Isles won 5-4 in double OT. Although I like the new
    playoff system that will be in place next year, I'll miss series like
    the Caps vs. Isles. I can still vividly remember their 4 OT game 7 back
    in 1987. Game ended at 2AM or so and one of my neighbors let out a
    woop of joy that could raise the dead. Of course in NY no one gave that
    shout a second thought :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    The Pens are going to have to re-write most of their media guide fer
    nexted year, what with all of the team and NHL records they've altered
    this year(or in continuance from lasted year, ie the consecutive
    playoff wins record).
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Hey TCM, what's the "ABP" in the p_name stand fer????
    
    I know what "AMF" stands fer when signing off of a note, but note ABP.
    
    JaKe
    

	Awww, why'd ya have to go and ask him that.  I figured it out the
	first time I saw it and slapped him Monday for it.


	billl

JaKe I am really disappointed in you. Even Bill Long managed to somehow put
enough synapsis together to figure out that ABP stood for Anyone But the
Penguins. Guess with these Pitt fans you can never tell.

The Crazy Met

    
>>JaKe I am really disappointed in you. Even Bill Long managed to somehow put
>>enough synapsis together to figure out that ABP stood for Anyone But the
>>Penguins. Guess with these Pitt fans you can never tell.
    
    I shoulda figgered it out, but recently, got some things happening
    outside of work that are cramping my brain bigtime.  Feel like I'm
    going around in a fog these days.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
C'mon, TCM,. why you got such a bias against Pittsburgh????

Hell, at the end of the year, when the Bucs have been relegated to 4th place,
and the Mets maybe are fighting it out wif the Expos or Cubs fer first place,
you bet I'll be rooting fer the Mets to go all the way, dontcha??



N      N        OOOOO      TTTTTTTTT         !
NN     N       O     O         T             !
N N    N       O     O         T             !
N  N   N       O     O         T             !
N   N  N       O     O         T             !
N    N N       O     O         T             !
N     NN       O     O         T
N      N        OOOOO          T             !

                                        
	
Hope the Mucking Fets finish in lasted place.  Shouldn't be too much trouble
once the injuries start kicking in on those overpaid jerks straining their
backs carrying all their money to the bank.


(8^)*


JaKe

                   

    It's sad that a sports fan from the self-proclaimed "Greatest City in 
    the World" must resort to living vicariously through the triumphs and
    tragedies of a couple of lovable underdogs from a little cowtown of 
    500,000 people out on the western frontier.  Sad indeed.
    
    glenn
    

 Thanks for the education TCM. I had to go to the dictionary for "synapsis"..
 Very astute usage of the word I might add too.....

 ;^)

Your very welcome Mike. Just another indication of how educational
this notesfile is  :-)

re: .176

Come on Glenn you can do better than that.

The Crazy Met

    After one period, the Pens and Debbils were tied, 1-1.
    
    Shawn McEachern had the Penguin goal, his third of the playoffs.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    After two pds, Debbils leading Pens 2-1, but Mario just got a goal in
    the third and it's tied 2-2 right now.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    The Pens extended their record fer most consecutive playoff wins by
    winning tonight over the Debbils, 4-3.
    
    Goals in the third period fer the Pens were by Mario Lemieux, Peter
    Taglianetti, and Larry Murphy.
    
    One of the reasons the Pens have gone up 3-0 in this series is penalty
    killing(or lack of a Debbil Power Play, choose which).  The Pens have
    allowed only one power play goal by New Jerkey in 18 chances.  They
    held off the Debbils on all 5 power plays tonight.
    
    The win tonight was Tom Barrasso's 14th straight playoff win, and the
    41st of his career.
    
    GO PENS!!!
    
    JaKe
    

	The Pens looked to be trying to coast a little to much last night.
	That is, up until half way thru the third period.  At that point
	they seemed to really pour it on.  

	Barrasso made some classic "not in my net you don't" saves.  He
	really lucked out as the final seconds ticked off, though.  The
	Devils had pulled their goalie and were swarming the Pens' goal.
	Barrasso was down on the right side when a bouncing pass crossed
	to the left right at the stick of the waiting Devil.  As luck would
	have it it bounced right of the stick.  I'm sure Tom's wife will
	have an extra stain to clean out of his BVDs after that one.

	These guys had better make quick work of the Devils in game 4.  The
	Pens are good (major understatement), but they can't afford to take 
	any of the teams they will need to play from here on out lightly.


	billl

	oops

	re: .182  As luck would have it it bounced right of the stick.

	shoulda been: As luck would have it it bounced right over the stick.
							     ^^^^

    
    >>	These guys had better make quick work of the Devils in game 4.  The
    >>	Pens are good (major understatement), but they can't afford to take 
    >>	any of the teams they will need to play from here on out lightly.
    
    As I said back somewhere, the Pens biggest potential hurdle in getting
    out of the division is complacency.  But with each series they win, the
    next gets that much tougher, and the pressures to win Cup #3 mount.
    
    GO PENS!!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Wassup wit da 2 day layoff fer da Pens?  Did some serious channel 
    surfin' tonight before realizin' da Pens aren't playin' 'til Sunday at
    1pm.
    
    billl

    They wanted to put the Pens on ABC on Sunday.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    WIf about 6 minutes left, it's 3-1 Debbils.  Debbils are 3-6 on the
    power play, while they've killed all of the Pens power plays today.
    Terrerri(sp?) has been unconcious in goal fer the Debbils today.
    
    Gues it may come down to game five tomorrow night.
    
    JaKe
    

    Clawed Balls, er... Claude Lemieux scores an empty netter with 18
    seconds left to ice it, on pun intended, and win 4-1.
    
    Pens 14 game league playoff =record streak comes to an end, Tom
    Barasso's 14 game winning streak in the playoffs also ends.
    
    Pens end unbeaten string at 21 games.  Last loss was sumthin like March
    5th.
    
    Oh well, bake to the igloo tomorrow night so the Pens cain win it at
    home.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens streak of winning the last 8 times they could clinch a series also
    ended.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re-.1
    
    Yeah, forgot about that one.  There were a few others that were
    mentioned, but I forgot what they are.  If I get a paper tomorrow, I'll
    dig them up and put 'em in here.
    
    JaKe
    

The Pittsburgh fains I watched the game with were totally unobjective
and BLAM(tm)ed the refs.

I was glad to see Pittsburgh lose, simply because I got tired of hearing
everyone gush over them.


If a team can consistently get under Mario's skin like the Devils did
yesterday, and if they can get some of the other prettyboys to fight,
the Pens can be eliminated.   


'Saw

>>If a team can consistently get under Mario's skin like the Devils did
>>yesterday, and if they can get some of the other prettyboys to fight,
>>the Pens can be eliminated.   

	Yeah they did a good job of frustrating Mario and Jagr.  That was
	the first time I've seen Jagr go toe-to-toe with someone.

	As far as the last part, "the Pens can be eliminated", goes nothing
	is impossible, but I wouldn't bet the house on this one, 'Saw.



	billl

>	As far as the last part, "the Pens can be eliminated", goes nothing
>	is impossible, but I wouldn't bet the house on this one, 'Saw.


No, I'm not gonna bet the house.  Like JD said, the league is definitely
going with preferential treatment for the superstars, so it's highly 
unlikely that anyone who could even get Mario to drop his gloves would
be around long enough to enjoy it.

But if I was coaching against the Pens, I'd have a goon out there to 
smack Mario around a little, and try to goad him into something.


Old time hockey had its goons, and every one complained.  But at least you
didn't have guys like Lemieux and Gretzky.   Gordie Howe would drop 'em
and duke it out, and then go score goals afterwards.

I'll take the goons, and a few less of the yuppiefied, one-dimensional
hokey players.....


8^)

'Saw

	33.193  stinks of sour grapes!!!


	billl

>	33.193  stinks of sour grapes!!!


Bullshit.

I've accepted the Bruins loss, no problem.  I'm hoping Calgary does well
now, because they've always been my 2nd favorite team, but I'm not
sitting here crying in my morning coffee because the Bruins are out of
it.

I was the signs in Game 2 and was fully prepared.


The Bruins peaked too soon, and while I think that they might have
been able to beat Buffalo if they resorted to some serious goonage in
Game 3 and copped a win, it's all moot.


Other teams facing the 'Goons should take a lesson from how to handle
Mario.....  If they have the guts.....


'Saw

                    
    "One-dimensional" == can do it all except rassle
    
    
    glenn
    

    
>>I was the signs in Game 2 and was fully prepared.
    ^^^
    
    Little bit of dyslexia there, Saw?????
    
    JaKe
    

|>>I was the signs in Game 2 and was fully prepared.
|    ^^^
|    
|    Little bit of dyslexia there, Saw?????
    

It's the fact that I touch type, and since I type "was" more than "saw"
my fingers naturally kcufed up.....


'Was    

    end of 1 period, PENS up 2-0.
    
    
    GO PENS!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Thanks for the update, JaKe.  True to form, the New England area has
    opted not to show Hockey tonight since their Broons are out playing
    golf.
    
    Who scored the second goal?  I checked in Prodigy, but they only had
    Mario scoring the first.  Assists by Stevens and Francis.
    
    keep me posted,
    
    billl

    I think it was Stevens, not sure, though.
    
    End of 2nd Period, Pens DOWN 3-2.  Devils killed the Pens in 2nd,
    including a short handed goal.
    
    GO PENS!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    re: Bill
    
    ESPN already had NASCAR scheduled for tonight a while ago; this time it
    has nothing to do with New England. And remember I have never been a
    fan of what the Boston channels choose to show/not show.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Pens take Devils in fifth game.  Here's the box score hot off the
    press:
    		1st	2nd	3rd	total
    Devils	 0	 3	 0	  3
    Pens	 2	 0	 3	  5
    
    1st period:
    	Pens - Mario  (Stevens, Francis)
    	Pens - Tocchet  (Stevens)
    
    2nd period:
    	Devils - Driver (Scott Stevens)
    	Devils - Alberlin (Stastny, Viacheslav)
    
    3rd period:
    	Pens - Francis (Murphy, Mario)
    	Pens - Daniels (Tippett, U.Samuelson)
    	Pens - Daniels (Tippett, Tocchet)
    
    billl

>    Thanks for the update, JaKe.  True to form, the New England area has
>    opted not to show Hockey tonight since their Broons are out playing
>    golf.

Bruins don't play on ESPN anyway.  Bruins play on NESN and WSBK.

    
TCM was correct.  ESPN had scheduled the NASCAR race tape delayed for
quite sometime, as they had to show the NFL draft live on Sunday.


'Saw

    > ESPN already had NASCAR scheduled for tonight a while ago; this time it
    > has nothing to do with New England. And remember I have never been a
    > fan of what the Boston channels choose to show/not show.
    
    What do you mean "this time"?  Since when are local networks allowed to
    just pick up and show and regional sports events from around the
    country?  Which station would you expect to provide this public
    service?
    
    glenn
    

>    What do you mean "this time"?  Since when are local networks allowed to
>    just pick up and show and regional sports events from around the
>    country?  Which station would you expect to provide this public
>    service?
    
I agree Glenn. 

The only network that I know of that does regional coverage like that
is Sports Channel.  I don't have to pay extra for the channel, but for
a lot of cable companies you do.

ESPN has certain contracts just like other networks do, and they have to
honor them.   They're dividing hockey between the SC affiliates and ABC
and ESPN.

NASCAR's contract is between TNN and ESPN, and I know that one race this
season (Richmond I think) was shown on TBN, which I don't get.....


'Saw    

	Oh well, since I started this...
	
	Last year I was able to catch a hockey playoff game it seemed like
	every  night there was one (even if it wasn't in the Broons division
	or conference).  Then again last year they were on SportsChannel.  
	Call it a coincedence, but this year as soon as the Broons are out of it,
	Whala! no hockey last night.  Not on NESN, SC, ESPN, no place.  

	(The only blessing was that the Bucs were on TBS.)

	I know, I know, the answer to this is to get a sattelite dish and 
	pull in KDKA from the 'burgh.  

	Wasn't trying to get everyone's shorts all tightened up, just making
	an observation.


	billl

>	Wasn't trying to get everyone's shorts all tightened up, just making
>	an observation.


Well, Billy Ray, you gave me a testicular torsion!!!!!!!!!


;^)


Actually, last year, MSG was also carrying hockey.  With the Rangers
not even making the 'offs this year, they're not.


'Saw

By 'this time' I mean that it was not scheduled to be on any of the networks
and therefore it was not the fault of the Boston stations for not showing
a hockey game last night. 

In general the Boston stations are notorious for substituting local programming
for low rated sportscasts that the network carries - ie College Basketball
in the winter (both Channel 5 and 4 do this).

The Crazy Met

    
    Sorry, I thought you were talking about hockey, TCM.  I think what
    happened with the SportsChannel and maybe also the MSG hockey 
    playoff broadcasts is that ESPN now has more exclusive rights to the 
    coverage.  I seem to recall some grumbling last year that while the
    ESPN contract would give the NHL more exposure, it would also cost them
    playoff telecasts due to conflicts with baseball (and, apparently, auto 
    racing).  Unlike with the major network affiliates I think you can rest 
    assured that if these cable channels had access to the games, they'd be 
    showing them, especially in New England (college basketball in NE is 
    another story).
    
    glenn
    

/Don, you're talking like a hokey fan and not a network exec.

Jaromir Jagr (pronounce the J's folks) has his long tresses flowing out
from under his helmet, and the young girls swoon.   Mario is being
treated like the Michael Jordan of hokey, so they have to showcase him,
although he'll need a better name for all those commercials he'll end
up doing (somehow I don't see someone singing "I Wanna be like Mario")


So, from a TV ratings standpoint, the network execs don't care about
good hokey, they want share......


hth,
'Saw

    
    So right, 'Saw.  Casual hokey fans have to turn the game on first
    before they can be captivated by the play.  If you look at the top
    ratings winners in other sports, many of the games involved the 
    marquis names but were complete duds otherwise...
    
    glenn
    

Personally, I like a good solid hokey game between two teams that hit
the s__t out of each other.  But that don't make for good ratings.....


'Saw

    ESPN is jest salivating and waiting for Underhanded Ulf to start
    something so they can get Beauty(Mario and Goldielocks) and the 
    Beast(guess who) all in one setting.
    
    MikeL
    
    BTW, any of y'all see Ulfie perform the leaping cross check to the
    teef of some Joisey forward in Game 3. Simply gorgeous to see.
    Ulfie does not disappoint.
    

    
>>       <<< Note 33.217 by CAMONE::WAY "I'd have had to miss the dance" >>>

>>Personally, I like a good solid hokey game between two teams that hit
>>the s__t out of each other.  But that don't make for good ratings.....
    
    I was goin to games years ago in the Igloo when the Pens couldn't beat
    a team of grandmas, and you could buy great seats just before gametime.
    
    Twasn't quite two teams that hit the s__t out of each other, but it was
    gruesome listening to the then Penguins' bones breaking with every
    other hit.
    
    JaKe
    

	Which is why they wore Black and Blue uniforms then.


	billl

    That gutless goon-Dale Hunter-made Pittsburgh's task easier by injuring
    Islanders' superstar Pierre Turgeon. Hunter blindsided Turgeon while he
    was celebrating the Islanders' fifth goal making it 5-1. Turgeon has a
    separated shoulder and is gone for the playoffs.

Then again even with Turgeon the Pengoons would probably win in 4 or 5.

The Crazy Met

    
    L.I. Goalie Healey will be seeing pucks in his sleep after the first
    couple of games with Mario and the boys. The Isles just can't skate
    with this team, thier "D" will have its handsfull.
    
    Good luck Al, youre gonna need it.
    
    -TH

    
    >>L.I. Goalie Healey will be seeing pucks in his sleep after the first
    >>couple of games with Mario and the boys. The Isles just can't skate
    >>with this team, thier "D" will have its handsfull.
    
    Thanks fer the KoD.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    KoD ?
    
    Wondering
    

    
    >>   <<< Note 33.225 by ZEKE::SAIA "It's a great day for Roadracing" >>>

    >>KoD ?
    
    >>Wondering
    
    Kiss of Death.
    
    Touting the team like that is almsot sure to put the ole whammy on them
    when done by the right people in here.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Am I one of those people ? Looking at the matchup, the Isles have
    suspect "D", along with a shakey goalie and thier big gun is out
    courtesy of Dale Hunter. 
    
    Looking at the Pens, unless they go to sleep or are interfered with by
    some type of devine intervention, then I would say that they will take
    the series. 
    
    Just my 2 cents worth.
    
    -TH

	"This is the best" Islander "team I've seen."


	billl

    That was a tough one Sunday!  The Pens got to do something about their
    power plays against the Islanders.  In the regular season the Islanders
    outscored the Pens when the PENS were on the PP.  The trend continued
    yesterday as the Islanders got two short handed goals.
    
    The game was so close to going into OT, but the potential tieing goal
    was disallowed.
    
    The Pens gotta go right at them Tuesday.
    
    billl

>    That was a tough one Sunday!  The Pens got to do something about their
>    power plays against the Islanders.  In the regular season the Islanders
>    outscored the Pens when the PENS were on the PP.  The trend continued
>    yesterday as the Islanders got two short handed goals.

Ferraro's goal was sweet.  I've always loved to see that play click, the
breakaway right outta the penalty box.  One of the most exciting moments
in hockey.
    
>    The game was so close to going into OT, but the potential tieing goal
>    was disallowed.

Good call btw.

    
'Saw

	What's the word in the 'burgh on Mario?  ABC said it was back spasms
	and he should be ok for Tuesday.  

	billl

    >>    <<< Note 33.234 by MKFSA::LONG "If you get there before I do" >>>
    >>                          -< any update????? >-

    >>	What's the word in the 'burgh on Mario?  ABC said it was back spasms
    >>	and he should be ok for Tuesday.  

    >>	billl

    Word is that Mario is probable fer tomorrow night.
    
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Mario DID NOT play tonight.
    
    The Pens beat the Islanders, 3-0.  GOals by Joey Mullen, Rick Tocchett,
    and ROn Francis.
    
    Barasso got the shutout, his second in the playoffs this year, and 4th
    career playoff shutout.  He also leads all goalies in the playoffs this
    year with a 2.14 goals against average.
    
    Series is tied at 1 game each and headed fer New Yuck.
    
    JaKe
    

	The Pens took a page out of the Islanders' playbook last night.  They
	came right out of the gate playing some smashmouth-hard forechecking
	hockey.  This had the Islanders back on their heals for the first period 
	and most  of the second.  Healey, in net for the Islanders had another
	incredible game, but Barrasso was not to be denied another shutout.
	For a big guy, Barrasso can really move quickly in the crease.


	billl

Bill didn't they teach you to count in Pengoon town?? :-) Its a best
3 out of 5 series now.

The Crazy Met

	Duh, oh yeah.  I had just read an article on the NBA playoffs and
	spaced that the NHL uses best of seven series.  Oh well, I am allowed
	one mistake per year.


	billl

    The Pens strategy lasted night was to take lotsa shots, which they did
    in the first and second.  They wanted rebound opportunities, and
    figgered that lotsa shots would slow the Islanders down, and also
    confuse them somewhat.  Seemed to work.
    
    Islanders have successfully killed all of the Pens Power play chances,
    including a 5 minute major lasted night.  
    
    JaKe
    

    Mario IS playing tonight.
    
    JaKe
    

    End of 1, Pens 2, Isles 0
    
    Goals=Francis, Jagr.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    End of 2, Pens 2, Isles 1.
    
    Isles got power play goal in second pd.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens won, 3-1.
    
    DOn't know who got the third Pens goal, I got onsite about 4 minutes
    into the third period and missed the rest of the game.
    
    GO PENS!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Francis scored an empty netter.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    I thought it was Mullen
    

    
>>    Francis scored an empty netter.
    
>>    The Crazy Met
    

	TCM, I believe it was Joey Mullin who scored the empty netter.  It was
	his 58th career playoff goal (an NHL record for an American).  It wasn't
	'zactly an empty netter.  Yeah, the goalie had been yanked, but Joey
	put out one helluva effort.  He was sandwiched and drug down halfway 
	between the blue line and the goal by two Islanders. He just barely
	was able to tap the goal in. 

	Between that one and the one Jagr put in (the Pens' second) it was
	quite an exhibition of second effort.

	
	billl

	The Pens did exactly what I was hoping they wouldn't ---> take the 
	Islanders lightly.  They came out playing some hard hitting, inyourface
	hockey in game two, but went back to the thing that got them in trouble
	in game one of this series.


	billl

    

    Pens win game 5, 6-3.
    
    Pens had 3 goals before the game was 2 minutes old.
    
    Mario had 2 goals and an assist.
    
    GO PENS!!!!
    
    JaKe
    
    

    

    This was exactly what I was lookin' fer 2night.  The Pens came out
    on fire.  Barrasso was right on.  This series will end Wednesday.
    
    Mario will not be denied this year.  This will be the last of the 
    New Yuck wannabes.  
    
    Looks like you will be down to hopin' fer da Muckin' Fets, TCc, er M,
    to make up for your flawless p-name bets.
    
    rotts-a-ruck,
    
    billl
    

                                           
>    This was exactly what I was lookin' fer 2night.  The Pens came out
>    on fire.  Barrasso was right on.  This series will end Wednesday.
>    
>    Mario will not be denied this year.
    
    I'm not quite so confident.  There is at least one game to go in this one,
    and two more series after that, and the Penguins are permanently just a
    Mario back spasm away from being a good but beatable team.  Can they
    afford to lose him for a couple games here and there against the better
    teams, or even again in the Islander series?
                                                           
    glenn
    

Sorry to disappoint you Bill, no p_name bet riding on hockey.

The Crazy Met

    
    Without a doubt - and I've watched almost every series - the Pittsburgh
    fans are the lamest in the playoffs.   
    
    Pengoons are thugs.
    
    Boring game.
    
    JD

    
    > the Pittsburgh
    > fans are the lamest in the playoffs.                     
    
    Uh-oh, I guess the PenGoon fans couldn't muster the Don Cherry Seal of
    Approval.
    
    Looks like the above appraisal finally puts to rest JD's once-held 
    notion that "fans are fans, no matter where they're from".  A thorough
    study of all North American sports fans has finally revealed that yes,
    Pittsburgh fans are uniquely deficient.
    
    glenn
    

>>    Without a doubt - and I've watched almost every series - the Pittsburgh
>>    fans are the lamest in the playoffs.   

	What in the "sam hill" do you base that little piece of cow dung on???


	billl

    	Ironically the Boston Globe had a story yesterday about Kevin
    Stevens' playoff slump.  JD's just getting ready for when his second
    favorite team gets smoked by Lemieux on his way to a third straight
    Stanley Cup (something Gretzky couldn't do).
    
    				/Don

    
    Now Bill aND GLENN - YOU ARE BEING SENSITIBVE.   JUST THAT THE IGLOO IS
    LIKE A MORGUE WHEN COMPARTED  to other arenas - although Vancouver and
    Winnipeg ain't too much better, that's for damn sure.  
    
    I won't be surprised that the best team money can buy will win a third
    Stanley Cup.  Anything less will be one of the biggest chokes in
    memory.  No team is as talented.   They have the Hart Trophy winner,
    the likely Norris, and the possible Vezina, the winningest coach in
    history and a bevy of scoring machines, not to mention the best
    rent-a-defensemen that money could buy.   There isn't one NHL team that
    matches them man for man.
    
    Now, for the Molson Hockey Night in Canada report:
    
    Leafs burn the Blues 5-1, and Curtis Jo-sieve (as teh Leafs fans
    chanted) finally looks mortal.  He's faced more rubber this playoff
    than a 42nd Street hooker.  Leafs outhit, outskated, and Felix Potvin
    has quietly put together super goaltending, to take a 3-2 lead in this
    series.  Andrechyk tied Lanny MacDonalds' Leafs playoff record for
    goals with his 9th and 10th.  Molson three stars were Andruchyk, Potvin
    and Mike Foligno.
    
    
    Kings beat the Canots 4-3 in double overtime.  Easily the best hockey
    of the series.  Kings surprised me by taking the beating the Canucks
    put on them and not giving uip.  Kelly Hrudly was huge.  Canucks made
    way too many mistakes in their own end.  Kings take a 3-2 lead with 
    a Thursday game in L.A.  Gretzky takes another step to teh USA ABC
    dream final of Mario vs. Wayne (Pengoosn in 4).
    
    
    Don Cherry waxed poetic about Mario last night.  He also answered
    critics who called him a Neantherdal - he asked what that was, and his
    sidekick said it was a caveman who walked around with a stick killing
    things - Cherry said - "Okay, my type of guy - could play hockey on my
    team anyday..."  Sure to bring more responses.
    
    Had Jacques Demers on - everyone is all over Cherry for picking the
    Sabres over the Havs.
    
    JD

>    Leafs burn the Blues 5-1, and Curtis Jo-sieve (as teh Leafs fans
>    chanted) finally looks mortal.  He's faced more rubber this playoff
>    than a 42nd Street hooker.  Leafs outhit, outskated, and Felix Potvin
>    has quietly put together super goaltending, to take a 3-2 lead in this
>    series.  Andrechyk tied Lanny MacDonalds' Leafs playoff record for
>    goals with his 9th and 10th.  Molson three stars were Andruchyk, Potvin
>    and Mike Foligno.

Blues lack of offense, and pressing in the offensive zone is starting
to show.

Cujo (as the Blues fans call him) has completely lost focus.  That's
death for a goaltender, and I'm not sure he can get it back.


    
    
>    Kings beat the Canots 4-3 in double overtime.  Easily the best hockey
>    of the series.  Kings surprised me by taking the beating the Canucks
>    put on them and not giving uip.  Kelly Hrudly was huge.  Canucks made
>    way too many mistakes in their own end.  Kings take a 3-2 lead with 
>    a Thursday game in L.A.  Gretzky takes another step to teh USA ABC
>    dream final of Mario vs. Wayne (Pengoosn in 4).
    
I have a feeling this series goes to 7.



    
>    Don Cherry waxed poetic about Mario last night.  He also answered
>    critics who called him a Neantherdal - he asked what that was, and his
>    sidekick said it was a caveman who walked around with a stick killing
>    things - Cherry said - "Okay, my type of guy - could play hockey on my
>    team anyday..."  Sure to bring more responses.
    
I'm really kind of sick of hearing about Mario.  Is Mario's back gonna
act up, is Mario's jock on too tight, did Mario have eggs for breakfast.
Can Marios move his bowels okay before tonight's game....

There's a ton of FINE hockey players in the playoffs at this point, and
it'd be nice if the media focused on some of them too.   In fact, there's
some hockey players who excel in ALL facets of the game....



>    Had Jacques Demers on - everyone is all over Cherry for picking the
>    Sabres over the Havs.
    
I have a feeling, but I might be wrong, that the Habs win it all.....


'Saw

	I finally broke down and watched Cherry's show last night.  What a
	putz!  This guy is to hockey and sports what Geraldo Rivera is to
	educational tv.  Cain't fer the life of me see what JD gets outa him.


	billl

Yeah, He's the Rush Limbaugh of hokey. Another guy that doesn't realize that
people are laughing at him instead of with him. He's certainly on the cutting
edge of the fashion world though, eh?

'Saw..I'm sick of hearing about Mario too...just let it go over you and remember
that hokey is a 2nd class sport (even though it's all that Haafaad, Conn has )

Metz

re: .260

Bill,

I think you expressed perfectly why JD likes Don Cherry so much.

btw what channel is he on in this area??

The Crazy Met

    
    >>Don Cherry waxed poetic about Mario last night.
    
    More like he was waxing his freakin' carrot.  I steel maintain Cherry's
    still a world class a$$hole.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
>>  							Is Mario's back gonna
>>act up, is Mario's jock on too tight, did Mario have eggs for breakfast.
>>Can Marios move his bowels okay before tonight's game....
  
    Maybe, no, yes, cain you say "Ex-Lax"????
    
    Schnortt Schitt Schlepps
    
    JaKe
    
    

    
>>Possibly not much longer.  Radio reports this morning have the Whale president
>>meeting with the Gov. of Minnesota about moving the club there.
    
    Betcha poor ol' "T" is doing the salami slap over this after all the
    crap he gave me over who "deserved" to have hokey and all that.
    
    JaKe
    

    	Don Cherry tells it like he feels it.  He was the most entertaining
    Boston sports figure I've seen.  You don't have to agree with him
    to respect his non-wishywashy manner.  Matter of fack, I'm going
    home right now and slug down a couple of Molsons in his honor. 
    
    				/Don

    
  >  Don Cherry tells it like he feels it.  He was the most entertaining
  >  Boston sports figure I've seen.  You don't have to agree with him
  >  to respect his non-wishywashy manner.  Matter of fack, I'm going
  >  home right now and slug down a couple of Molsons in his honor. 
    
    That's no excuse for punting away the Cup in the late '70s, though...
    
    

    End of 1 pd, 
    
    Islanders 2
    Pens      1
    
    Pens goal ny Martin Straka
    
    Islanders goals by...ah, who gives a damn who scored them
    
    
    JaKe
    

    End of 2 pds.
    
    Islanders 4
    Penguins  4
    
    Mario had a goal, Martin Straka had a goal, not sure who had the other
    one fer the Pens.
    
    JaKe
    

    re-.1
    
    Twas Kevin Stevens who scored the 4the Pens goal.
    
    JaKe
    

    Islanders forced the series to go to a 7th game. winning 7-5 tonight.
    
    GO PENS!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Islanders have gotten the best they could hope for. A 1 game crap shoot
    for the series. Turgeron (sp?) may be available for limited action on
    Friday night.
    
    I suspect that in hockey and basketball the home team wins a game 7
    much more often than in baseball. Anyone got the stats on this?? I know
    John Hendry would have, but how about someone who notes here??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Wow, great game last night. I could'nt have been more wrong in my
    prediction of a Pens victory in 5. Arbour has his team on a mission and
    it shows.
    
    Steve Thomas was  a force out there. Two goals, 2 assists, 2 posts.
    very entertaining game, and Kasperitis was a Penguin hunter last night
    slapping around Mario and Mario acted like he was stabbed in the eye
    with a pencil. It's one thing to draw a penalty, it's another to play
    to the refs. Why not have Toccet skate Kasperitis's lane and pop him
    when he puts his head down. That would be the equalizer in my book.
    Instead the look to the refs and fall to the ice. Yuch.
    
    Can't wait for Friday's game.
    
    
    -TH

I don't have stats  for game 7s, but they shoued a stat on the 
game last night that lately (like this rounds of series I think)
the home teams are running at something like 2-8...

Re The Whalers:

	The cut at it from the local media (always highly critical
	of the Whalers) is that Gordon is using Minnesota's interest
	as a negotiating tool with the State of Ct.  He's planning
	on puttihg the Minn. proposal on the table of Hartford's
	Mayor Carrie "I waer a hat all the time because I'm bald" Saxon
	Perry, and Gov. Lowell "Il Duce" Weicker, to force them to deal.


Good game by the Islanders last night.  Interesting series.

Mario's a weenie who doesn't have the cojones  to put up his dukes 8^)

Ray Ferraro stupped up until some of the Isles gunners started clicking....


'Saw

    
    It's just a cut above pro wrasslin', I'm telling you.  Mario taking
    obvious dives on weak, phony forearm shots, Ron Francis with a 
    high-stick goon shot, serious taunting after goals, and the obligatory 
    "melee" after the game has ended.  Such a beautiful game and they've 
    got to spice it up with some very cheap theatrics for the feigns...
    
    glenn
    

    Bill, Jake -
    
    Cherry - you either like him or you don't.  However, I agree with his
    stance on visors/fighting/stickwork.   On one show he was saying how TV
    is hypocritical because they won't show fights or melees anymore (have
    been mandated to try to cut away to commercial, or to pan camera
    eslewhere) - yet, Cherry says, when Mogilney breaks his leg, they show
    it over and over, zooming in on his face, hoping to see blood.  
    
    Also, with fighting on the outs, and the increase of visors, stick work
    is at an all time high.  Guys get cut almost every game.  And dives. 
    Now everyone dives.   Look at last night, Mario is twice as big as
    Kasperitis, he takes a whisper shot and goes down like he was plugged
    by Oswald.
    
    JD

    
    Re.-1
    
    Ditto.
    
    -TH

Personally, I'm against visors unless the player has had
an eye/cheek injury that could recur.

JD, I like that line about plugged by Oswald, but I'd be
betting it was THEM (you know, the extraterrestrials), who
hit Mario lasted night.....


'Saw

    Visors sip.
    Ol' Jaromir, who looks like a Seattle grung with dat mop, coulda
    used some Windex on his. Maybe that's why he has all these great
    moves but cain't find the puck to finish.
    
    MikeL
    

Been RONning from ALPHAX::SPROUTS mostly, but figured I'd hop in'n'out.
    
Back in 88, as a fresh-faced nouveauMassDECcie fresh from a Pgh grad school 
and painfully bereft of my Pens' season tix (A26E1,E2), I passionately 
argued Wayne vs Mario with JD.  Even got busted once for exceeding the 
"f-word" limit.  But I just grin at JD's purple-haided antiPen prose now.  

Mostly because he sent me a nice note after the Pens' first champeenship 
admitting that he was completely misguided in our Gretzky vs Mario polemics
and that Mario was indeed god and that he had bin jest yanking my chain.  

Partly because I feel less messianic since now EVERYONE finally agrees 
with my mario_is_god proselytizing from 5 years back.

And partly because Mario will soon ascend the Pantheon of sportsheroes with
a 3rd consecutive Stanley Cup and my insuperable bliss cannot be disturbed 
by the likes of yinz.

But I also chuckle at JD's notes because I recall the time he waxed (himself) 
poetic about the Rangers' (his #1 most favorite team) great defenseman Steve 
Leach.   After that gaffe, I understood the depths of his hockey familiarity 
(i.e. he's splashing and squalling in the wading pool whilst I was going off 
the 3-meter board) and I knew where he was coming from!

[imsfh]

Charlie :-)



(PS.  It really was a nice note you sent, JD.  I do admit my memory of your
      specific comments may be selectively faulty!  :-)   )
    

You sure JD was not talking about Brian Leetch??

The Crazy Met

A Trivia Question:

When was the last time the Islanders and Penguins faced off in a 7th game?
Who won? What was the final score?

Now its off to join 'Saw at OPP.

The Crazy Met

General concensus last night was that Mario is a one-dimensional
hockey player.  JD's line about him going down like he was popped
by Oswald garnered a lot of laughs....


'Saw

    
>>A Trivia Question:

>>When was the last time the Islanders and Penguins faced off in a 7th game?
>>Who won? What was the final score?

    It was, I think, 1982, the Pens had gone up on the Stanley Cup Champs
    to be, 3 games to none, big upset in the making, and the Islanders came
    back to win 4 straight and head on to an eventual Stanley Cup
    Championship.
    
    Can't remember what the score was, though.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Close JaKe but in 192 the Pens and Isles played in a 3 of 5 series.
    Series tied at 2, game in Long Island. Late in the 3rd Pens lead 3-1.
    The DAMN Islanders miraculously socre 2 goals in the last 3-4 minutes
    and then win 4-3 in OT.
    
    The last time they played a game 7 was 1975. Islanders were in the
    playoffs for the first time; they had won round 1, a 2 of 3 series,
    by 2-1 over the Rangers. They won 11 seconds into OT in game 3.
    Pens had home ice and took a 3-0 lead in games. Isles tied the series
    and that game & was one of the best games I can remember watching.
    Eddie Westfall scored midway through the 3rd period, Isles won 1-0.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    amend that to 1982. and anyways /er I thought that =Bob= was
    leader of the Cadets these days, what are you doing usurping his job?
    
    fwiw you're way off on your history the Huns and Visgoths started
    sacking Rome about 150-200 years after 189.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	The Huns and Visigoths were expansion warriors in 189.  Things
    moved slower then.
    
    				/Don

    COuld history be repeating itself re 1975???
    
    Pens were down 3-1 with less than 4-1/2 minutes left.  ROn Francis got
    two goals in 3 minutes to tie it and send it to OT, where it'll crank
    up in about 30 seconds from now.
    
    GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!GO PENS!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    

    BTW, whether the Pens win or lose, IMHO, the reason the Islander got
    this thing to 7 games was GREAT goaltending by Glenn Healey of the
    Islanders.  Absolutely spectacular, Healey was.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Pens lose 5+ minutes into the OT.
    
    HAVE THE FREAKIN' PENS EVER BEATEN THE ISLANDERS IN A PLAYOFF
    SERIES?????
    
    Shit.  No three in a row fer the Pens.
    
    Oh well, time to make Tee TImes.
    
    JaKe
    

    

    
    What a barn-burner the 3rd was ! Outstanding, but I thought Barrasso
    misplayed the winning goal ...
    
    What a shot Kevin Stevens gave to himself. He initiates the contact,
    knocks himself out on the other dude's helmet and then nose-dived
    into the ice (concussion, nose and cuts), taken off on a stretcher.
    
    Ouch !
    
    - acp

    Dave Volek == Francisco Cabrera
    
    heh heh heh heh heh heh
    
    Of the pain, the pain that thos Pitt fans must be feeling and after all
    those arrogant things Kevin Stevens said during this series the Pens
    deserve what they got.
    
    Now of course one might feel some sympathy for the fans of a team who
    had the most points in the regular season and lost in the division
    finals. 
    
    
    NOT!!! heh heh heh
    
    David Volek == Francisco Cabrera!
    
    The Crazy Met (enjoying every moment of this - even though I did n't
    see the game)
    
    

    First chance to get in here since the miserale woopin' last night, like
    JaKe said there's always next year.
    
    BTW TCM what freakin' right does a Mets/Rangers fan have givin' any
    Pirates/Pens fan any crap at all?????   Take your Volek/Cabrera crap
    and stick it where the sun don't shine!
    
    Some of us, myself included, take this pro sports stuf a little too
    serious.
    
    Oh and TCM, since I'm sure you know the way, where is that Cafe Crow
    anyway?
    
    
    billl

    
    Bill,
    
    What goes round comes around. You gotta be able to take it as well as
    give it.
    
    Since I am always happy to help out, the Crow Cafe is note 50.
    
    HtH
    
    The Crazy Met
    

I attended a concert on Friday evening, so I caught the game when the score
was 3-2, with about 2:25 left in the 3rd.

Great effort by the Pens to tie it, although they certainly dodged a BIG
bullet on the breakaway by Mullen (I think).

Two CRUCIAL plays in OT.  First, Mario held the puck deep in the Islanders
zone, when chances are, if he takes a shot, it's over.   Second, Ulf
got wicked burned to set up the 2-on-1 which lead to the winner.


There was an indicting article in the Courant yesterday, which blasted the
Penguins for their dipsy-doodle, no-hit style, and questioned if
Mario was worth his $6 million dollar salary, based upon his play in the
last two games.  It was an interesting article.


Healy played superb in goal, and I have a sentimental spot in my heart
for Ray Ferraro, yet another hard working, solid hockey player traded away
by that eternal hockey boob, Ed Johnston.


Quite the upset, but I think Shoenfeld said it best on the wrap up.
Pittsburgh might have the best players, but on Friday night they got beat
by a hockey TEAM......


'Saw

    Great, great game Friday night.  The Pens should learn a very
    valuable lesson from this series (one would hope).  By the time they
    came to play their hardest and their best, they were in the precarious
    Game 7 position of being done in by the breaks (namely the goaltending
    difference-- the third period of Game 7 was a hell of a time for Tom
    Barrasso to take the pipe-- and some sloppy play by the UlfGoon).  Had 
    they played all series long like they did in Game 7, it never would 
    have gotten that far, because you can't hold off that kind of a
    relentless attack over a long period.  But in the one game almost 
    anything can and did happen.  
    
    Effectively four one-goal losses (Game 6 was two, but the clincher came 
    on an empty net) and you're out.
    
    glenn
    

    
    I was working Friday Night and the place was glued to the tube
    watching this game. Nobody, I mean Nobody wanted the Pens to win.
    Myself, I thought for sure it would be over in 5 with a Pens victory.
    
    It was a great game to watch, with edge of your seat thrills with the
    last minute goal to send it to O.T. When N.Y. buried the Biscut, the
    place erupted, (This from a usuall boring Celtic white wine and brie
    crowd.) I was glad Jagr and co. will be golfing today. Stevens was
    wailed on in that hit. I think it was Pilon ? and poor Kevin was out on
    his feet before his face smashed into the ice. Surgery this weekend to
    repair his cheekbone and Nose, ouch !
    
    N.Y. looked flat yesterday, but give em time. I think that they will
    give the Blue-Blanc-Rouge a run for thier money. I don't wan't to say
    who will win this one, but Healey has to be on his game.
    
    P.S. I hear there is a special on Balls this week at the local stop and
    shop for $2.95. A few Pens players should go pick up a set and try em
    on fer size.
    
    -TH
    

    Stevens went into Pilon, more than Pilon into Stevens..
    

    Well, the greatest team money can buy saw their dynasty go up in smoke
    as they choked away a Game 7 at home 4-3 in OverTime.  Lost two
    deciding games to the Islanders, who simply wanted it more.  On paper,
    this is no contest, but the game is played on the ice (heh, its cliche
    time!)
    
    A fine season by the Goons ends in disappointment.
    
    I didn't meet an unhappy person here last Friday.  For some reason, the
    Pengoons are not well liked in this part of Canada.  
    
    What's strange also is the lack of national endorsements for Mario
    Lemiuex.  The top 3 hockey personalities are Gretzky, Cherry and yes,
    Larry Robinson (in terms of commercials, etc...)   Mario is no where to
    be seen.  Strange for the best player - maybe cause he never played for
    a Canadian team.
    
    Anyway, til next year, when the Goons buy a few more players to make a
    run at the dynasty label.
    
    JD

Strangely enough, JD, there was speculation in the Hartford paper that
the greatest team that money can buy might have to jettison a few highly
paid superstars to atone for their complete lack of anything remotely resembling
team hockey in the playoffs.

It listed the salaries of the players, and hinted that one or two of them
might be gone by the time the season opens in October....


'Saw

    I thought the greatest team money could buy was in NY... no?

Actually, most of the sportscasters I've heard are comparing this to the
loss that Edmonton had after the 84 and 85 season, then they came back to
win in 87 and 88.


I don't think that wholesale changes will be made to the team either,  but
I'll be one of them is let go.

What happened to their defenseman, Jimmy Paek?


'Saw

> I don't think that wholesale changes will be made to the team either,  but
> I'll be one of them is let go.
    
    Yep, I'll bet you and the UlfGoon are both let go.  You two are ruining
    the team's image...  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

AHEM......

I think that the team's image was ruined by the sight of Mr. Penguin himself,
Mario Lemieux, doing a Louganis, and then looking up plaintively to the
referee, as if to say, "how dare someone come near ME, the GREAT MARIO?"


It WAS poetic justice that it was Ulfie who was burned on the play that
lost them the game.....


But, if you really wanna BLAM me, well then,


		Just Call Me (Pengoon) Assassin.....


[lotsa 8^)]


'Saw

	The package arrived at the Pittsburgh Penguin offices Friday morning,
at about 10 am, via Federal Express.  The Address was written as follows

		Pittsburgh Penguins
		Igloo
		Pittsburgh, Pa.
		Attn: Team Captain

The package was delivered to the locker room just before the Pens were to take
the ice for the pregame warmups.  The whole team gathered around as Mario
Lemieux examined the package. He held it above his head, and shook it, trying
to get an idea beforehand what the contents of the small, 10" long box could
be.

Finally, Mario started to peel the packaging tape from the seems of the box. 
After removing the tape, Mario then, cautiously, opened the flaps to find a
tons of those packing chips that are such a pain in the ass and get all over
the place when you try to unpack a box that contains them, plus something else. 
Mario sifted thru the chips to find an expensive looking small suitcase like
container, with only the initials "DS" on them.  Mario looked at the
package label, seeing the return address only said "NC".  Mario then proceeded
to slowly open the case, and inside found an object wrapped in the finest silk
linen.  Also in the case was a folded note, with the instructions on the outer
flap saying "Open Me Last".  Lemieux picked up the linen encased object and
slowly started unwrapping the linen.  When the linens were completely
unravelled, the object lay before the whole team, and finally they understood
what was to come. The object, a 5" long, gold plated chicken bone, shone
before them.  Then Mario read the note, which said,
    

	"Being as I didn't need this earlier this year, I thought you guys
might be able to do it some justice, and snatch defeat from the jaws of
victory.

					Dean Smith"


JaKe
     

There was an interesting Commentary last night on our local sports news.

Dave Smith, the head sportscaster for WSFB-TV3 reported that the
Penguins are thinking of firing Scotty Bowman and replacing him
with Ed Johnston.

Smith went to town on that, saying that Johnston was the man who
single-handedly destroyed the Hartford Whalers, and as such is responsible
for them being on the verge of leaving.  He said that not only did he
trade Ron Francis, but in the months afterwards while he was still employed
as the Whalers GM, he managed to demean Francis every chance he got.
He stated that Johnston had made so many poor decisions that only
Boston's deciding that Babe Ruth would look good in pinstripes was worse.

He said that Pittsburgh could be a dynasty, but that if they put EJ in 
there, that they'll never get back to the Cup.  He said that EJ might
not do as much damage as a coach as he did as a GM, but that he'd 
influence the players every day.


For my money, here's my cut at it.  Given the speculation that the
Penguins will dump some high priced talent (not many, maybe one or two),
if EJ becomes coach, look for Ron Francis to go.   That would be
deadly to the Penguins.

I might be biased, because Francis is one of my favorite players all time,
but Francis is an integral part of Pittsburgh, a quiet player who gets
the job done all the time.   Pittsburgh might be Mario's town, but
without a solid foundation supplied by Francis (and other players who
get much less of the limelight) Mario could not survive being as
one-dimensional as he is.....


It'll be interesting to see what happens.....


'Saw

    
    This same rumor with EJ returning as coach comes up every year.  Wasn't
    EJ run out of Pittsburgh on a rail once already?  Or at least left in
    disgrace?  
    
    glenn
    

I'm not really sure what the situation was when he left.  

I have heard this rumour before, but supposedly it's being beefed up this
time by the fact that Bowman coached "remotely", and only ran a few practices
himself.

Go figure.....

At any rate, EJ as coach would mean the death of the Pens....


'Saw

    Sadly, the news here is the Craig PAtrick, Pens GM has already been
    talking to EJ since the season ended fer the Pens Friday.
    
    Bringing EJ back to coach the Pens would be like bringing Chuck Tanner
    back to manage the Bucs, sheer stupidity.  The guy, EJ that is, has
    this reputation(don't know where he got it) of being this great judge
    of talent. Right, look what he did to the Whalers.
    
    When he was here as coach, he had troubles with the players, seems he's
    as much an a$$hole in the box as he is in the front office.
    
    NO WAY, EJ
    
    JaKe
    

Sheer stupidity, and I'm not even a Pens fan!

Hell, even if Bowman was coaching remote, he had a plethora of fine results
down the stretch, with the unbeaten streak and the President's Trophy.
Any boob could see that there is coaching talent there and that he should
be retained....

Yeah, let's get EJ back....sure.....


'Saw

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (KISHA CIABATTARI, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.hockey,clari.local.pennsylvania
Subject: A bad back and Bowman to blame for Penguins' collapse
Keywords: hockey, men's professional
Message-ID: <hkn-penguinsU3yH405ae@clarinet.com>
References: <hkn-penguinsU3yA1130pe@clarinet.com>
Date: Mon, 17 May 93 1:31:13 PDT
Location: pennsylvania
ACategory: sports
Slugword: hkn-penguins
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 1257/1252; Id: z0941; Sel: xxshp; Adate: 5-17-405aed; Ver: 3/0
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: yshprxx., &shprpa., tnrb...., txia....
Lines: 126
 
Commentary
	The absentee coach should have stayed away.
	Scotty Bowman, who may have coached his final game for the Pittsburgh
Penguins last Friday, was never one to stick around the two-time
defending Stanley Cup champions. In his two years behind the Penguins
bench, Bowman's residence has remained Buffalo, which is where he often
was when the Penguins held their practices in Pittsburgh.
	Where he was -- or where his coveted hockey mind was -- during the
Penguins' slow death in the Patrick-Division final at the hands of the
New York Islanders remains anyone's guess.
	The Penguins entered the playoffs on a roll -- coming off two straight
championships and their finest regular season to date. They set a
franchise record with 56 victories and established a new league mark for
consecutive wins in both the regular season and playoffs. Those were the
highs. The team's darkest hour came in January when Mario Lemieux,
hockey's best player, was diagnosed with Hodgkin's disease -- a form of
cancer.
	After undergoing 22 radiation treatments, Lemieux's cancer was
declared in remission and he triumphantly returned to the lineup in
March to ultimately capture the scoring title and lead the Penguins to
the President's Trophy as the league's top regular-season team.
	That's where the high-light reel ends. There will be no third
championship in Pittsburgh. The Penguins are goners, relegated to
watching far less gifted teams fight for a Cup they thought they were
guaranteed. Instead of making history, they've become it and Bowman -- as
much as his underachieving players -- has to take the rap.
	He failed to yank on the reigns of Lemieux and goaltender Tom
Barrasso -- his two most important players -- down the stretch. An over-
used Lemieux's cranky back tightened up in the team's first-round
victory over New Jersey and he was never the same, despite his energetic
protests to the contrary. Barrasso, who played 63 regular-season games
and had a bout with the chicken pox in late February, collapsed in the
third period of Game 4 against the Islanders and never recovered his
form.
	The Penguins' defensive breakdowns created more odd-man advantages
than a team has a right to subject its goalie to -- particularly a
championship team -- but Barrasso never bailed the Penguins out. He gave
up uncharacteristically soft goals -- the kind a goalie gives up when he
is hurting, or exhausted. Could Bowman go to Ken Wregget? His overuse of
Barrasso precluded the option. Wregget, reduced to a bench mascot,
hadn't played in weeks.
	And then there was Lemieux. An extraodinary talent, his healthy
presence can camoflouge most weaknesses. But when he goes to the
sidelines, Pittsburgh's neutral-ice game goes with him. Lemieux missed
all but 2:34 of Game 1 of the series, and the Penguins couldn't cope.
That's because General Manager Craig Patrick never really has replaced
traded defenseman Paul Coffey, who gave the team another serious puck-
carrying threat.
	Without Lemieux or a catalyst moving up from behind, Kevin Stevens,
Jaromir Jagr, Ron Francis and Rick Tocchet spend alot of time wondering
when they're going to see the puck. And even the deadliest sniper can't
bury the puck if he doesn't have it.
	Patrick has to shoulder some of that guilt -- the Penguins' lack of a
puck-moving defenseman was their achilles' heel in this series. Making
out the numbers on the jerseys of Pittsburgh's defense has never been a
problem. In fact, if a hockey rink were a freeway, then the Penguins
came at the Islanders at the clunking rate of 55 mph -- the No. worn by
the Penguins' lone offensive defenseman, Larry Murphy. Murphy, a
legitimate Norris-Trophy candidate, does not have the kind of quickness
to carry the burden of launching the attack. He won't scare anyone
lugging the puck from blueline to blue line.
	If Patrick couldn't come up with the goods at the trade deadline, can
Bowman really be blamed? A coach can't make trades, but you've got to
wonder about one who willfully reduces an already slow defense down to a
crawl.
	When Grant Jennings and Mike Ramsey took a beating down the right-
wing boards from darting Islander wingers throughout the series, Bowman
never adjusted. He failed to make use of Jim Paek and Paul Stanton --
quicker and younger than anyone the Penguins dressed and much more
capable of diffusing the Islanders' forechecking game. That's bad
coaching. What was wrong with these two last season when they helped the
Penguins' win their second championship? And just like Lemieux, he
leaned too heavily all year on Ulf Samuelsson, one of the league's best
defensemen.
	The Penguins were supposed to enjoy a considerable speed advantage
over their opponents on paper. Thanks to Bowman's bizzarre personnel
moves and conservative strategy, that edge never jumped off the page.
	Martin Straka, the team's top pick in 1991, contributed a ``breakout''
performance in Game 6 with his first two career-playoff goals and caused
chaos for the Islanders' defense with his speed. Inexplicably, he barely
played in Game 7. Perhaps what epitomized Bowman's puzzling approach was
his use -- or neglect -- of rookie winger Shawn McEachern. The speedy,
skilled former Boston University standout, who sparkled for the Penguins
last spring, was used sparingly in favor of rookie Jeff Daniels -- an
uncharismatic foot soldier who wouldn't scare Denis Lemieux of Slapshot
fame -- and he wasn't even a real goalie.
	Maybe Bowman should get to know his players and their strengths
better. Maybe reports that he passes his players in the halls of the
Civic Arena without as much as a hello don't stem from aloofness -- maybe
he can't tell them apart. Maybe he confused Daniels with McEachern.
	Despite their failure to show up for the Division final, the former
champs might have been playing Sunday afternoon in Montreal had they not
lost Stevens to a concussion and fractured nose 4:50 into Game 7.
Stevens, weakened by a protracted bout with bronchitis late in the
season and reportedly hiding a hand injury, had come on in Games 5 & 6
with seven points. Losing Francis to a high-sticking major in Game 6
also took its toll, as did some strange officiating that rewarded the
Islanders with eight more power plays than the Penguins in the series.
Still, last season's Penguins would have found the resiliency to
overcome those setbacks. This year's edition never found its stride.
	``This isn't pressure -- this is a job,'' said Barrasso before Game 7.
``This is what we do for a living. Pressure is if you're a surgeon, and
you've got somebody's life in your hands. I heard somebody mention 'do-
or-die.' It's not do-or-die, I've got news for you.''
	The Islanders played as if it was, which is why they're still alive.
They likely won't survive the Wales Conference final against Montreal,
making their achievement all the more stunning. They executed Al
Arbour's system to near perfection and won the series without injured
star Pierre Turgeon.
	Still, recapturing the Cup next season remains a strong possibility
for a Penguins team that is still the league's best -- especially if
Patrick can ink Swedish sniper Markus Naslund, the team's top draft pick
last June. But anoffensive defenseman and a revamped blue line has to be
Patrick's top project.
	As for the Penguins' lack of hunger, those pangs will no doubt return
around June, when another team is raising the Stanley Cup.

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    ?Don -
    
    Yeah you probably right about the French angle and edorsements re: 
    Mario.   A few of the French speakers at work listen to the games on
    the French station, and the announcers were mad at Mario, because he's
    been refusing to talk to the French stations for some reason.
    
    Regarding thePens in general:  losing Ulf would help them immensly.The
    Hockey news up here said that Francis and Murphy were the only 'Goons
    to play hard every game.  They also likened this to Edmonton, but
    pointed out Edmonton lost a Game 7 when their own guy put the puck
    behind Fuhr.  
    
    Best line of the night last night:  Kasperitis hit Muller (or Savard)
    with a punch, and nothing happened.  THe announcer said Kasperitis hit
    him with "the kind of shot that folded Lemiuex down to the ice.."
    
    JD

Heard on the news last night that the Penguins have asked Scotty Bowman
to return if he is interested.....


'Saw

    The Pens have recieved permission from the City of Pittsburgh, who owns
    the Civic Arena, to install an additional 1300 seats in the Arena.
    
    1000 of these will be lower price seats(see Nose bleed territory), and
    300 will be luxury box seats.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    JaKe,
    
    I haven't been in the Civic Arena since high school days, so maybe my
    memory has slipped a little, but I seem to recall the "worst" seat in
    the house was still pretty good.  It's not like sitting out in
    deepest-darkest center field in Three Rivers to watch a mumbly-peg
    match at home plate.
    
    The only way I can see them adding seats, though is by making the
    current seats smaller (ie. anti-\er).  Either that or open the roof up
    and build upwards.
    
    billl

    Oboy Oboy Oboy
    
    another 1300 idjits sitting in the Igloo with stupid shark signs.
    Or another 1300 empty seats till playoffs( telepathy wif MrT)
    
    MikeL
    

    The seats are supposed to go above the "E" level balconies at the ends
    of the ice.
    
    >>Or another 1300 empty seats till playoffs( telepathy wif MrT)
    
    Mike, wrongo, dude.  The Pens averaged slightly over 16,000 this year
    per game, with a capacity of ~16,180 in the Igloo.
    
    JaKe
    

>    Mike, wrongo, dude.  The Pens averaged slightly over 16,000 this year
>    per game, with a capacity of ~16,180 in the Igloo.
    
    T would say they outdrew the Pirates playoff games!

I sure do miss MrT......

    And those shark fins are stoopid.   First of all, the Penguin is not a
    shark type animal.  Of course, if a shark met a Penquin, it would eat
    the Penguin.  Now the Pens fans could put Walrus haids on their haids
    to make it more realistic, but face it, the only things a Penguin
    strikes fear in is a herring. So the Pens fans should wear Herrings on
    their Haids.
    
    Your Welcome.
    
    JD

	Read in that most entertaining of notes files, BOSTON_BRUINS, that 
	the front office of the Pens have withdrawn their offer to Scotty
	Bowman to remain at head coach for another year.  It sounded like
	Bowman was considering other offers and was not ready to make up 
	his mind.  

	Any confirmation of this?


	billl

In Sunday's Globe the weekly hockey column/blurbs/news mentioned that 
Bowman would not be in Pittsburgh next year.

The Crazy Met

    re .330
    
    Yup, true it is.  THey wanted an answer from him, he weren't ready to
    give an answer, so they said thanks but no thanks.  THe Pens say he
    still has a job in the front office if he wants it.
    
    JaKe
    

    Heard he might wind up coaching the Red Wings...
    

My brother and I were pondering the implications of this particular event
vis-a-vis Ronnie Francis.

One possible scenario evolves like this:

		1. EJ becomes the Pens head coach
		2. Look for Ron Francis to be traded
		3. Look for Richard Gordon and Brian Burke to be
		      heavily involved in trying to get Francis back
		      to Hartford, if for no other reason than to try
		      and get the fans 'spurned' when Francis went to Pitt
		      back into the Civic Center.... (or more accurately
		      the Veterans Memorial Coliseum).


'Saw

    
>>One possible scenario evolves like this:

>>		1. EJ becomes the Pens head coach
    
    If EJ comes back to Pittsburgh as head coach, I might consider jumping
    ship and rooting fer the Broons or GoWhale or somebody else.  The guy
    has run every hockey program he gets involved with completely into the
    ground, IMNSHO.
    
    A guy here said about EJ this AM, "Well, he DID draft Lemieux for the
    Penguins,"   BFD.  Any fool who would have ha dthe firsted pick that
    year would've drafted Lemieux.  It didn't take a brain surgeon to
    figger that out, ya know?
    
    EJ comes to Pgh, and the Pens won't get that third Cup until he's gone. 
    Ya heerd it here firsted on Roller Derby.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    If EJ coaches enough teams, everyone will be a Broons fan pretty soon.
    
    brews

    	Hey JaKe, Denny Rieu wanted you to send him a case of Jagr Bars.  I
    told him he shouldn't waste his money 'cuz they'll melt just like the
    real Jagr did...
    
    				/Don

    
    >>	Hey JaKe, Denny Rieu wanted you to send him a case of Jagr Bars.  I
    >>told him he shouldn't waste his money 'cuz they'll melt just like the
    >>real Jagr did...
    
    Yeah, the Jagr bars were hyped to the max, but most of them contained
    very little substance.
    
    Now, the "Mario" bun bars were great, but when you needed one the most,
    the back of it was rotten.
    
    JaKe
    

>    Now, the "Mario" bun bars were great, but when you needed one the most,
>    the back of it was rotten.
    
I heard they were impossible to eat because they were one-dimensional
(Similar to the Gretzy Bars).

I also heard that if you merely brushed against the Mario bun bars in the
store they would dive off the shelf as if hit by a shot from Oswald.
If that didn't make you pay attention to them, they would start making
a John-Cullen like whine......


'Saw

    Hard, 'saw, Hard.
    
    
    JaKe
    

JaKe,

If youz' believe in purgatory and decide to root for a team other than
the Pens, root for the Rangers, it'll get you years off of your
sentence.

Jus' tryin' to help.

The Crazy Met

    re.341
    
    Sure TCM, the Rangers, root fer the Rangers.  
    
    GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE.
    
    
    that'd be like rooting fer the Red Sox.  Ain't gonna win the big one in
    my lifetime.
    
    Lessee, when was the lasted time the Rangers won the cup.   LOOOOOOOONG 
    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago, right??   I want to root fer a team
    that at least has a chance or might be moving in the right direction,
    not what the Pens would be doing if the hired EJ, again.
    
    Hell, they got rid of him a few years back and the Whalers got stuck
    wif him, and immediately the Pens RAPED the Whalers fer Francis and
    Ulfie, and what'd the Whalers get????   Not what they lost, that's fer
    sure.
    
    Root fer the Rangers, NEVER.  A TRUE PITTSBURGHER WOULD NEVER ROOT FER
    A TEAM FROM NEW YUCK!!!
    
    JaKe
    

	I heard from a very shaky source that Bowman signed a 2.6M  two year
	contract with the Red Wings.


	rumor control

>>   Root fer the Rangers, NEVER.  A TRUE PITTSBURGHER WOULD NEVER ROOT FER
>>   A TEAM FROM NEW YUCK!!!


	I'll second that!


	billl

    KDKA reports that Bowman and Detroit is a done deal, and the figure of
    $2mil + is probably accurate.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Re Bowman
    
    In the paper this morning, the Red Wings are denying that the deal has
    been made, so the report on Bowman getting a $2.6 mil contract is
    probably true, knowing these sports type front offices, who deny
    everything that's true.
    
    JaKe
    

    Ok, what team am I to root fer now????   (8^)
    
    It is a sad day for Hockey here in Pittsburgh.
    
    The Pens announced yesterday that Eddie Johnston will indeed be the
    head coach of the team nexted year.   S H I T !
    
    Well, there goes the quality of hockey here.
    
    Bryan Trottier has also been hired as a player/coach.
    
    One of the items that EJ will have to do is actually attend practices,
    something that Bowman was told NOT to do. Brain Daid management,
    Methinks so.
    
    JaKe
    

Ron Francis remeet Eddie Johnson - heh heh heh heh heh heh

The Crazy Met

Heck, with the talent laden squad the Penguins have, they
could hire Bill Russell and Al Harazin and still win the
Stanley CUp...

JD

re:.350

yup just like this past year; heh 

The Crazy Met

    re.351
    
    My thoughts zactly.
    
    JaKe
    

	re: Eddie Johnson

	Say it ain't so......tis a sad day fer da Pens indeed.



	billl

They should hire Dean smith...Then you'd really see some fishbone inhaling...

Metz

	If'n they hired Snuffy they'd havta build up the platfrom the coach
	stands on.  The way it is now he wouldn't be able to see over the
	dasher.


	billl

A prediction:


	Before the end of this calendar year, Ron Francis will be
	back in a Hartford uniform.  Several of the young, talented
	players that Hartford now has will be in Pittsburgh to be
	ruined by EJ.

	The other possible scenario is that Francis ends up on the
	Mighty Ducks...8^(


'Saw

    re-.1
    
    Francis IS on the Pens protected list, BUT, EJ will find a way to foul
    up and send Francis somewhere else.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>Wow that's radical.  Expecting a head coach to actually attend
    >>practices.  What's next?  Require Mario to attend too?
    
    Well, the stories around here state that Scotty Bowman spent most of
    the practices at his home in Buffalo, NY.  ANd it wasn't Bowman's
    decision, it was Craig Patrick, GM, who told him NOT to attend the
    practices.  Seems there was bad blood between a few of the players and
    they didn't want him there.  Jerks.
    
    JaKe
    

    Just heard on the radio on the way to work,
    
    The Penguins have entered into a joint operating agreement with, and
    here's where I got a little foggy, the Red something or other team from
    Russia, er, the former Russia, OVER THERE SOMEWHERE---------------->
    
    Schnortt Schitt Schlepps
    
    JaKe
    

   Thank you, Jake for that fact filled and informative note. Keep us up
  to date on any further developments on that fascinating story.

    
  >>      <<< Note 33.361 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove!" >>>


  >> Thank you, Jake for that fact filled and informative note. Keep us up
  >>to date on any further developments on that fascinating story.

    Anytime, Tommy.
    
    Actually, I heerd it on the way to work during the 30 second
    sportscast, but I didn't hear all of it cause I was too busy flipping
    the guy who had just cut in front of me "the bird", and threatening to
    embed my size 9-1/2's in his rectal opening if he didn't step on the
    gas.
    
    Schnortt Schitt Schlepps
    
    JaKe
    
    

    Ok, so the Pens got this long term joint operating agreement with the
    group in Moscow that runs the (?former?) Red Army team, among other
    teams in the former SOviet Union.
    
    
    JaKe
    
                        

    DAMN, I'M BUMMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    The 84-0 season the Pens was going to put up this year got spoilt
    lasted night in Filthydelfia.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens beat the Islanders lasted night, 3-2.  Pens jumped off to a 3-0
    first period lead, then everybody except Barrasso went to sleep.
    
    Barrasso stopped 45 of the 47 shots thrown at him.
    
    Mario is practicing wif the team and after the Pens afternoon practice
    today has a news conference scheduled.  Rumor has it that a date will
    be set for his return.
    
    JaKe
    

	How is Jagr doing?  I hope he has stepped it up considerably over
	last year.  He came into the league and immediatly was on a mission
	to light up the scoreboard.  Last year he seemed to go into a slumber
	and lost most of his intensity.  One can only hope that he finds it
	again.  With the physical skills this kid posesses it would be a 
	great disservice to the game if he was to mentally "pack it in".


	billl

    Jagr is playing a much improved game over lasted year, almost a man
    possessed.  guess he doesn't want to go down as one of those has beens
    who "had tons of potential" but that was a far as it went.
    
    JaKe
    

	Could someone please post the details to last nights game against
	San Jose?  I know the final score was 3-3, but I was wondering
	who did the scoring.


	billl

Mario had 2 goals and an assist, or was it a goal and 2 assists?

The Crazy Met

    Not sure of the scoring and don't have the sports section handy.
    
    BTW, I forgot to mention that Ron Francis bacame on of only 38 players
    in NHL history to go over the 1000 point mark.  he did it lasted week.
    
    JaKe
    

	Way to go Ron!  

	Too bad the whalers don't have someone like him, 'Saw.


	nyuk,nyuk,
	billl

>           <<< Note 33.371 by MKFSA::LONG "DEC, get outa VN, NOW!" >>>
>
>	Way to go Ron!  
>
>	Too bad the whalers don't have someone like him, 'Saw.


I'm surprised he's still with Pittsburgh, considering the waste of 
skin who's coaching the team these days.

I've said it before, and will say it again.  Ron Francis is one of the
classiest players ever to lace them up.   He benefits not only the team
on the ice, but the community off it.

Hartford's loss on the ice was measurable, but the loss to the community
is still felt and can't be measured.....


Congrats, no flies on him.....


'Saw

    Pens .vs. Tampa twonite.
    
    Wish I had a decent radio, cain't even listen to the Pens anymore when
    I'm in the orifice at night.  Damned new station they're on is horrible
    fer reception, they went from a 50k watt station to a 5k watt station,
    and a "radio network" type of thing to make money.
    
    JaKe
    

	I like the Pens' attitude towards this season.  Last season they
	seemed to go all out during the "pre-season" to win the trophy
	for having the best record.  When the "real" season came along
	they were too beat up to even put up much of a fight and got knocked
	out the first round.

	Barrasso is getting quite a bit of rest.  I hope it isn't too much.
	Not being a hockey player myself, I can only assume that sitting out 
	too long would have a negative affect on your sharpness on the ice.

	

	billl

    Barrasso ain't getting "rest".  After the hip injury sorta healed, he
    came back and sprained his knee in the firsted game back and is out
    with the injury.
    
    JaKe
    

    Romano gets the win lasted night...
    

    
    It is true that just a few games your timing is off, along with
    conditioning. Few games = week or so without playing. I don't know
    about goalies though, I've never met one that was normal anyway.
    
    

    Kevin Stevens completed the Penguins first hat trick of the season with
    the game winning goal with just under 1 minute left to play in overtime
    tonight to push the Pens over the Broons, 5-4.
    
    The Broons, by what I heard, dominated the game after the firsted
    period.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    	Dominated the game?????  At the end of the second period, da broons
    were down 3-2.
    
    Dat don't look like "d o m i n a t i o n " to me!
    
    I remain,
    really wondering about the price ot tea in China
    Kev
    

    Da Broons had an advantage of over 2-1 in shots on goal, If I'm
    correct, and even though the score didn't show it, da broons dominated
    the game fer the most part.  Wregget stopped something like 44 shots
    tonight.
    
    JaKe
    

    As usual Wregget looks like a Venezia Candidate. (Good netminder, but
    the B's have a habit of making all goalie look good.)  Pens still a
    force no matter hows out with an injury. They  have a great mix of
    talent, youngsters and wily veterans, which could carry them to another
    Cup.
    
    When is Borrasso comming back ? He may have to fight to regain his job.
    Another thing that is wierd, are the Pens fans. When SuperMario is out
    they stay away, don't even sell out at home. The team is still a
    pleasure to watch sans Mario.
    
     

    
    
    	Yabbut at the end of 1, da Pengoons lead 2-0.
    
    and at the end of 2, they steel lead 3-2
    
    and they won the game.
    
    C'mon sport, this ain't astrophysics!
    
    I remain,
    thinkin JaKe's grasping for somthang to brag about after the Steeler's
    chickenbone thang!
    Kev
    

    
    
    	Yabbut izzat like saying Deano and UNC has dominated college
    basketball over the last decade?
    
    ;^)
    
    

    Having watched the game, the B's did thoroughly ouplay the Pens.  As
    usual there was one very soft goal let in by Blue (the 4th).  With the
    talent the B's have (minimal), their netminders must be capable of
    stealing games, which it appears they are not.  
    
    Good trade Harry/Mike/Brian.
    
    All in all, it was an exciting game to watch.
    
    					Steve

    
    What does it say for a team that can outplay it's opponent and still
    lose ? I would guess, lack of talent. Hustle, shots, are all fine but
    it's whats in the 'W' column at the end of the night.
    
    Seems the B's always 'outplay' tough teams only to come home with an
    'L' or a 'T'. This is because Harry/Mike love the lunch pail approach.
    

    Quebec continues beat the hell out of the Pens.  The Nordiques snapped
    a 6 game losing streak tonight vs the Pens, and are 4-0 .vs. the Pens
    so far this season.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    When is Super Mario comming back ? 

    He's practicing again with the team, but no timetable has been set for
    his return.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens spotted the stRangers a 4-0 lead lasted night and ended up losing
    5-3.
    
    Mike Gartner, who was a thorn in the Pens side when he was with the
    Caps, continued to be a thorn in the Pens side, getting a "power play
    hat trick".
    
    Mario is on the shelf until at least Saturday. More soreness in his
    back(maybe he should consider retirement(8^)*)
    
    JaKe
    

good game by the Rangers lasted night. Of course games before April don't
mean all that much; home ice is nice but not a guarantee for a win.

The Crazy Met

>>>home ice is nice but not a guarantee for a win.

	Yeah, the Pens can vouch fer that!  Just keep telling yourselves,
	"It's only the preseason.  It's only the preseason."


	billl

re: .392

so can the Rangers - see 1992.

The Crazy Met

    Pens beat the Floridia Panthers tonite, 2-1.  Ken Wreggett stopped 33
    of 34 shots fer the Pens.
    
    JaKe
    

>> Ken Wreggett stopped 33 of 34 shots fer the Pens.

	This guy has improved tons since the game I saw him play at the
	Gahden last year.  He seems to be alot more focused and doing
	a good deal less 'flopping' around.


	billl

    I agree with ya on Wreggett, billl.  He's played great this year so
    far.  The loss to the Rangers the other night ended a 10 game unbeaten
    streak fer the Pens.  Who'da thunk that Barrasso could go down and
    Wreggett take over and play as good as he has???
    
    JaKe
    

	Any update on Barrasso?


	billl

    Word on Tom is that he's available to play.  he was available fer the
    last two games, but they chose not to use him.  The Pens are off until
    Friday, maybe he'll see some action then.  Or, maybe since Wreggett has
    been playing good(only 1 loss lasted 12 games) their playing with the
    guy wif the hot hand???
    
    JaKe
    

    Latest word on Mario is that he's still having back problems.  Seems
    that he's fine doing everything else, but on the ice, wif the skates
    on, his back hurts like hell.  (Maybe he needs a half size bigger
    skate).
    
    Mario has said that he will wait till this season is over, see how the
    back goes, and if it don't get better, he will consider retiring.
    
    JaKe
    

any word on when he might be back??

The Crazy Met

    Well, not tonite, that's fer sure.  He's been going thru conditioning
    programs out the ying-yang, and his own date fer return was last week
    sometime, but with the continual back pain, he said he's just going to
    go day by day and when it don't hurt, he'll play.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>         <<< Note 33.400 by METSNY::francus "Billlls in '94" >>>
    
    Nice p_name there, TCLoser_of_p-name_bet_champ_of_SPROTS
    
    JaKe
    

 >>         <<< Note 33.400 by METSNY::francus "Billlls in '94" >>>
						  ^
	Hey, if this keeps showing up in here-----|  I'm gonna hafta
	change the byline so's I don't get miked up wit dem.

	billl
	

    Hey billl,
    
    you oughtta start getting that kid ready to go into the moron corp by
    waking his ass up at 4:30 in the am fer no apparent reason.
    
    JaKe
    

    Mario's doctor told him he had a bone in his back.  He hasn't been able
    to bend over since.

re: .404

yabbut that would mean billl would have to be awake at that time.

btw, Billlls ... only for a week. 

re: JaKe - let's wait and see if the Pens and Rangers meet in the playoffs 
this year!

The Crazy Met

    
    
    	Yabbut thisted morning's radion had a short blurb that Mario, the
    main who beat cancer, is contemplating retirement 'cause his back is
    just too bad.
    
    hth
    
    I remain,
    trapped in FM land
    Kev
    

    Pens fall out of first fer the firsted time since late December, losing
    to the Habs lasted night, 4-1.
    
    JaKe
    

    Wrong.
    
    The B's were one point ahead of Pittsburgh last week during their 7-0-1
    streak.
    
    Mark.

    Wrongo Marky, they ended up TIED for firsted with the Pens, never
    were ahead of em.
    
    JaKe
    

    and the Bruins had played one more game at that point.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    >>and the Bruins had played one more game at that point.
    
    having played one more game don't mean sh_t in the standing is the
    point totals are equal.......twere tied.
    
    JaKe
    

When teams have the same point total, the tie breaker is # of wins.
Bruins had 25, Pens 24, so I guess technically the Bruins were
in 1st place at the time.

The Crazy Met

Craze is right on that count.....

    rinky-dink technicality, but when is a tie breaker used but at the end
    fo the season.
    
    JaKe
    

    All-star game coaches??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Apology accepted, Jake.
    
    Mark.

    Apology my ass!!!
    
    JaKe
    

    Mario had a cortisone shot in the back the other day, practiced
    yesterday, said he feels 100% better and will wait and see how it feels
    over the nexted week.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    I hope he doesn't retire. The guy is an absolute pleasure to watch,
    especially live. As much as I don't like the Pens, I respect the talent
    that oozes from that team.
     

Why is it that hokey fans talk more about when the injured guys are coming 
back than how the uninjured guys are doing?  I's sick of hearing about po'
po' Mario, and how he's hurt again, and may nevber come back, or po' po'
Cam Neeley, and how amazing it is that he can only play a third of the 
time, but that he averages a goal for each game he plays...

=Bob=

    
    =Bob=
    
    re:Mario
    
    He is the leagues Marquee player, most talented and a pleasure to
    watch. Sure guys like Yzerman,Federov,Greatski,Bourque, do it day in
    and day out, but iif one of them were to go down due to injury  you
    would hear about it. The league waits for his return.
    
    >>Why is it that hokey fans talk more about when the injured guys
    
    I wouldn't just say Hockey fans. When Roger Clemens stubs his toe we
    get a three page spread in the glob. If MJ were still playing you would
    get a report on a bleeding hemmoroid and a low supply of PrepH. Mario
    has a serious injury (Back) and beat Hodgkins disease, I think a little
    press on his return is deserving along with a little tolerance.
     

>    He is the leagues Marquee player, most talented and a pleasure to
>    watch. Sure guys like Yzerman,Federov,Greatski,Bourque, do it day in
>    and day out, but iif one of them were to go down due to injury  you
>    would hear about it. The league waits for his return.
    
I'd like a job where I could sit out most of the regular season being
injured, and then come in, work a few games, score a few goals,
and be touted as the best....


Half-kidding here, but half-serious too......

    
    I see how you can come to that conclusion, but put it this way,if you
    put him on any team in the NHL, he will dominate (Heathy of course)
    like no other.

>    I wouldn't just say Hockey fans. When Roger Clemens stubs his toe we
>    get a three page spread in the glob.
    
    The difference here is that Roger Clemens has missed a total of 10
    starts over 8 years since 1986, so the talk in the papers is just junk
    to fill pages.  Same with Jordan; he was a very durable player.  I have
    nothing against Lemieux or the attention he's receiving, but at some
    point the player and the fans just have to move on, for the good of the
    sport.  From his comments Lemieux realizes this as much as anyone...
    
    glenn
      

    Yzerman was out and I noticed.  Since he came back, he and Sheppard
    have been two of the hottest players in the NHL.  Federov carried them
    while Yzerman was out.

    Pens lose to the Islanders, 5-3.  They have now lost 3 in a row for the
    firsted time this season.
    
    JaKe
    

	Lemieux seem sto be feeling lots better now!  In the shelacking
	by Dallas, Mario was in on at least 2 of the Pens' goals.  He 
	scored twice in this weekends game against Philly.

	Unlike last year where the #1 priority was to win the President's
	Trophy, this year it seems they realize that this is just the 
	preseason.  Keep everyone healthy and well rested for the REAL
	reason.



	billl

    Yeah, but how many Dallas goals was Mario on the ice for?  ;^)
    
    Mark.

	tooooooooooooooo many!

    Chance to see some real hockey this week on espn - Detroit vs Toronto.
    
    Followers of Bruins should watch to see how entertaining nhl hockey
    used to be and could be instead of dump it in and wait for power play.
    
    nhl-six man

>    Followers of Bruins should watch to see how entertaining nhl hockey
>    used to be and could be instead of dump it in and wait for power play.
    
I didn't have any complaints in Saturday's game....


'Saw

    I thought the Toronto-Detriot(tm) game was on "the deuce"...
    

    It is.  Too bad for those of us without it.
    
    Mike

    Mario returned Saturday, and played yesterday also, total fer the
    weekend, 3 goals and 2 assists in the two games, and they say he looks
    real rusty on the ice, although he blew out some of that rust in
    yesterdays game where the Pens shut out the Phlyers, 3-0.
    
    JaKe
    

	Although the Pens seem to be sitting back and "skating" into the 
	playoffs, I think they will be shocked if they come across the
	Rangers in the playoffs.  The Rangers are playing like a "housafire".
	I really don't see anyone beating them.


	billl

quit that KOD thing billl.

The Crazy Met

    whassamatter TCM, got that same feeling that Sox fans get late Sept.
    every year?????
    
    JaKe
    

absolutely! have never hidden it when it came to the Rangers.

sigh :-(

The Crazy Met

    HAHAHA
    The Strangers are on top of the hockey world and TCM is developing
    his yearly case of quivering anus..
    
    Even tho I think the Pengoons is playing possum, the Rangers will
    bag 'em in the semis.
    
    MikeL
    

	Yep, all signs are looking good for the Rangers to shed that 1940
	"dark cloud".  They're the best (right now).


	billl

    re -1
    
    Ain't that like an annual note?  One of the first signs of spring,
    right after the jgroundhog seeing the shadow and cathers 'n pitchers
    reporting is the annual "looks like the Rangers are favored to win the
    Cup, right now."
    
    brews  

    And about the time the teams come home from Spring Training the Rangers
    will exiting the playoffs.
    
    Although if it came to that I would root for them against 'guins

When is the last time a team with the best regular season record won
the Stanley Cup? Certainly hasn't happened the last 3 years.

The Crazy Met

>> When is the last time a team with the best regular season record won
>> the Stanley Cup? Certainly hasn't happened the last 3 years.

>> The Crazy Met
    
    
    Mark your calendars people.. Excuse #1 from the RangerPostMortem
    has surfaced.
    
    MikeL
    

    Damn, I hate it when I fergit my paper.  Pens traded McSorley and
    someone else to the Kings? fer Shawn McEachern and another player(brain
    cramps today).
    
    JaKe
    

    Pens trade Paek and McFilthy to Kings for McEachern and Sandpaperstrom.
    
    Now the 'Goons have two cheapshot hokey players in
    Ulf the Ultimate Pengoon on "d" and Tomas "Zorro" Sandstrom
    at "f". 
    
    MikeL
    
    

Yo MikeL that was a serious question; excuses should start in a month or
6 weeks. 

The Crazy Met

	C'mon MikeL, you're not seriously going to start up that "big
	meany Ulf hurt po little Cammie" tripe again, now are you?

	

	billl

    Nah counterfeit billl 8^),
    
    Ulfie is a goon no doubt but Cammie hurt hisself tryin' to
    make Ulf a permanent fixture on the Gahden boards.
    
    But Ulf and Tomas, a hateful duo.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    I like Ulf. He makes Cam and alot of other players think and then he
    takes them off of thier  game. Take him on my team anyday.The man you
    love to hate. This Ulf/Kneely thing is a great media creation.

I remember Ulf when he first came up, and just played the game without
all the other goon tactics.  He's really not a bad defensemen.  Somewhere
along the line he added the goon stuff. 

More power to him -- he does what he sets out to do.  And like I was for
Ron Francis, I'm happy that Ulf got his ring.  He never would have gotten
it in Harfaa......


'Saw

    Pens beat the Broons up pretty bad thsi year, sweeping the season
    series.
    
    Pens won tonight.
    
    JaKe
    

Article: 11118
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.hockey,clari.local.pennsylvania
Subject: Lemieux: I May Quit
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 21:20:08 PDT
 
	PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Mario Lemieux, disgusted with the style of
play and quality of officiating, said he plans to stop promoting
the NHL and will consider retiring this summer.
	The star center of the Pittsburgh Penguins has been used in
promotional and publicity appearances, including network talk
shows, when asked by the league.
	``I'm done with that kind of stuff,'' Lemieux said Tuesday.
``They can promote the marginal players if they want.''
	Lemieux, who led the Penguins to two Stanley Cups before back
problems and Hodgkin's disease cut short his last two seasons,
unleashed several complaints in connection with NHL referee Kerry
Fraser's call on him Monday night.
	Fraser failed to call a couple of penalties committed against
Lemieux, but gave him a penalty for high-sticking after he elbowed
Tampa Bay's Roman Hamrlik, Lemieux said.
	``I think it was a little bit personal from (Fraser's) part, and
I got personal with him later on,'' Lemieux said.
	Lemieux was ejected for the third time in 596 games when he
charged out of the penalty box to confront Fraser. That capped a
dispute that started with words and escalated with Lemieux throwing
his stick.
	Fraser sent a report to the league office about Lemieux's
conduct after the game.
	``The league will look at it,'' Fraser said. ``It goes to the
commissioner and Brian Burke will deal with it.''
	Burke is the NHL's senior vice president and director of hockey
operations. He determines fines and suspensions based on officials'
reports and available videotapes.
	The Penguins' telecast of Monday's game clearly showed Lemieux
tossing the stick and then opening the gate of the penalty box to
skate toward Fraser.
	Teammate Ron Francis may have spared Lemieux further trouble by
grabbing him and steering him away from Fraser. Teammates Ulf
Samuelsson and Kjell Samuelsson helped Francis, and Lemieux left
the ice.
	Lemieux said he has been trying unsuccessfully for two years to
change league rules.
	``The last couple of years it's gotten pretty bad, with the
clutching and grabbing,'' he said. ``That's why you have guys who
can only score 50 goals in the league. You used to be able to score
70, 80, 90 goals.''
	The frustration may not be a problem much longer, he said.
	``My back is more important than hockey right now, my family is
more important, my little girl,'' he said. ``And (retirement) is
something I'm going to sit down this summer and think about
seriously.''

    
    
     Is Mario going to take his puck and go home?  What a wusssss

    I agree 100% with Lemieux.  The refs in the NHL allow way too much
    clutching and grabbing to go on.  And try to get a call in the last
    half of the third period of a close game or in overtime.  The rules
    change in a tight game.  Makes absolutely no sense.  A grab is a grab
    is a grab, whenever it's committed.
    
    It is such a breath of fresh air to watch college hockey.  Much faster
    pace, more wide open, lots fewer stoppages of play - the UMass-Lowell
    vs Minnesota game was the best hockey game I've seen in years.
    
    NAZZ

Mario's a whiner who plays when he feels like it, doesn't when he doesn't,
couldn't carry Gordie Howe's jock, and should talk about penalties being 
handed out.  He's probably just pissed about the playoffs last year when
that guy from the Devils was all over him like white on rice and Mario
couldn't get a call from the refs who usually protect his arse.


The Mario-pee-pee-smooching announcers last Sunday were touting Mario's
every move as if he were  God_Made_Man_On_Skates:

	"Oh, did you see how Mario judged the carom off the
	 boards and was right there to pick up the puck?"

Well, DUH, I've only see rookies do the same thing a million times.....


Mario should just shut up and do his endorsements.  I mean, he plays half
the time and gets paid mega-bucks...


|    It is such a breath of fresh air to watch college hockey.  Much faster
|    pace, more wide open, lots fewer stoppages of play - the UMass-Lowell
|    vs Minnesota game was the best hockey game I've seen in years.
    
College hockey is fun to watch but with the full face shields, there's
a lot more stick work that goes on.  That's kind of scary.....
On the other hand, those kids don't dog it at all.....


'Saw

    The Pens are Mario are finally paying the bill for tanking it a few
    years ago to grab Mario in the draft.  They sold their soul for Mario
    and a few Stanley Cups.  It's time to pay the piper.

	I knew this would get the obligatory "cry-baby" replies from the
	die-hard Broons fans.  That's why I put it in here.  I could go 
	back and change the name from Lemieux to Neely and those same
	folks would be "that's right"ing all day long.

	All the super-goal scorers, on all the teams, have been complaining
	about the relaxing, make that ignoring, of the 'holding' rule.

	As far as caring someone else's jock, 'Saw, who would want to???


	billl

    The only crying going on in here billllllll is coming from Maria
    "Wah-Wah" Lemieux.

|	All the super-goal scorers, on all the teams, have been complaining
|	about the relaxing, make that ignoring, of the 'holding' rule.

Well, if he wants them to be so stringent with the rules, he should give
up his first goal from the game the other day, when that pretty boy
Jagr cross-checked the living doo-doo out of Iafrate right in front of the
net, so that Iafrate couldn't get to Mario.....

Mario and Wayne-O get so much Jordan-esque treatment from the refs...


|	As far as caring someone else's jock, 'Saw, who would want to???

Well, sometimes, I guess, when you're a rookie, you have to....8^)


One call that really did surprise me in Sunday's game was the Joe Mullen
fight.  He and (was it) Kneepsheer(?) were pummeling each other, which,
I agree with the announcers, was out of character for Mullen.  They each
got 2 for roughing.  Gloves were off, punches were thrown and they just
got 2.  I was wicked surprised....


'Saw

	Mac, go buy yourself a new record. That old 78 is worn out.


	billl

    
    
     About Broons fans saying it would be allright if it was Neely...
    I don't think so.  Neely has put up with much more of this mauling
    than Mario, Gretzky and Hull.  The difference is Neely will (not so
    much now) drop the gloves and take care of it himself.  Ask Claude
    Lemiux.  I highly doubt Mario would ever drop the gloves he is a
    wuss.
    

|     About Broons fans saying it would be allright if it was Neely...
|    I don't think so.  Neely has put up with much more of this mauling
|    than Mario, Gretzky and Hull.  The difference is Neely will (not so
|    much now) drop the gloves and take care of it himself.  Ask Claude
|    Lemiux.  I highly doubt Mario would ever drop the gloves he is a
|    wuss.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. 

Neely reminds me a lot of Gordie Howe -- plays both ways (although I think
Howe was still better on D than Cam) and is not afraid to duke it out.

Wayne-O and Mario are one-way wonders....  That's why Pittsburgh needed
to pick up Ron Francis -- for some defense...


'Saw
    

    So is Fraser the only guy Mario has ever gone after?
    
    Maj

    Mario was fined $500 fer leaving the penalty box.  Sorta like fining me
    $.01 fer farting in church, just a tiny drop in the bucket, comparable
    to what he makes.
    
    MAC, quit yer bitchin'
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    I heard that was the max fine for the NHL.  I know that they're
    a little behind the times but that sounds awfully low.  Any word
    on a suspension for Mario?  I was watching the Pens/Devils game
    last night and Gary Thorne (I lost respect for him after this
    comment) said about the incident "he is to important to the leauge
    they ought to let this die" or something similar, why is a part
    time player so important to the NHL?  Lyndon Byers got a 10 game
    suspension for "falling" of the bench onto the ice during an
    altercation and Super Whinner gets a 5 bill fine for charging a
    official??????  There is no justice.
    
    Jerry

It's the Jordan syndrome.

The owners and league officials feel that a part-time, one way player,
like Mario or Wayne-O will put asses in the seats.   For most US hockey
fans, who know little or nothing about that game (okay, I'm basing this
on a lot of the Harfaa Yuppie crowd) that's exciting stuff.

For any knowledgable hockey fan, offense is supposed to be coupled with
defense, and one-way players who the league protects are not an attraction
at all.    For my money, if Mario or Wayne-O were any good, they'd play
till they were fifty.  But they don't have the bullocks to do that.

So, the owners and league officials, in their quest to make money, will
do whatever they can to protect Mario and Wayne-O, to make sure that fans
will still buy tickets, and still buy merchandise.


I'm sure /Don could have said this much better, but I gave it my best
shot....8^)


'Saw

>>For my money, if Mario or Wayne-O were any good, they'd play
>>till they were fifty.  But they don't have the bullocks to do that.

	Just to put things in perspective for you, 'Saw.  I don't recall
	Gordie Howe having a herniated disk, acompanied with back surgery,
	and the trama of Hodgkins disease.

	That doesn't mean he should be treated differently, IMHO, by the
	refs.  To me all calls should be equal regardless of who the 
	player is.

	billl

>	Just to put things in perspective for you, 'Saw.  I don't recall
>	Gordie Howe having a herniated disk, acompanied with back surgery,
>	and the trama of Hodgkins disease.

Guess Gordie was a little tougher, eh?  [big smilie here]


|	That doesn't mean he should be treated differently, IMHO, by the
|	refs.  To me all calls should be equal regardless of who the 
|	player is.

Couldn't agree more.  The Jordan Syndrome is going to spoil sports, and
it creeps like a virus from sport to sport....


'Saw

	I think Mario should have at least gotten a 1 game suspension, but
he is Super Mario so he got nothing. Its better off anyways, the more games
he plays the better chance that someone will cross check him in the back.
So that he misses the playoffs and the B's might have a chance. :^).

Ron

re .474

	It's nice to see that there are still some canidates out there
	who still haven't had their labotamies yet.


	billl

    
    Instead of harping on Mario bitching, we ought to start bitching about
    the league not enforcing these clutch/grab/interference calls that are
    on the books. The refs don't make these calls and a typical NHL game
    looks like aflippin' square dance. Look at a few games, *every* damn
    team holds and grabs particularly in playoff time. Not purty hockey.
    
    Yea maybe Mario should have got a 1 gamer for goin' after the ref,
    but he was rat on. And if he wanted to scare PrettyBoy Fraser, he
    should have been wieldin' a pair of scissors.
    
    MikeL
    

	re .476:

	Yeah! What he said!

	(I never thought I'd be agreein' wif a Bronco fan.)

	billl

I don't disagree with you Mike.  There's a lot of stuff they let go.
Strangely enough, though, they are really into calling this "holding the
stick" penalty.  Go figure.

On the other hand, Mario gets more preferential treatment than anyone
except Wayne-O, so he should be the last to complain.  

Hell, if I could work part time and get paid a full time salary, and 
get preferential treatment, I don't think I'd ever have anything but a smile
on my face.....


'Saw

    I agree that Mario gets away with pref treatment somewhat but he
    takes mucho abuse(as do other *top* players).
    All the clutch/grab shennanigans has gotsta stop.
    
    BTW 'Saw, how's Holmgren gettin' to work? Jogging??
    
    MikeL
    

>    
>    BTW 'Saw, how's Holmgren gettin' to work? Jogging??
>    


Nope.  He opens the door to his room, says hello to Daryll Strawberry,
his next-door neighbor, and walks to breakfast, after which he brushes
his teeth, but is not allowed any mouthwash (cause it's got you-know-what
in it), and then goes to group therapy....

I doubt he's working any trades, but I'd bet that after Daryll finishes
with baseball, he tries to Jordan his way onto the Whalers.....


8^)    

    Pens wrapped up the Northeast Div. title lasted night by beating
    Ottawa, 4-0.
    
    NOw, it's on to the REAL season soon.
    
    Although, it's gonna be REAL tough fer any team to beat those "best in
    the NHL" Rangers.  They gotta be the favorites heading into the
    playoffs, and I doubt ANYONE will win 4 games versus them.
    
    JaKe
    

    Since the regular season, by your own admission, means little than an 8
    point difference between teams, especially one that missed Lemieux for
    so much of the season, is irrelevant. Put a healthy Lemieux on the Pens
    for the playoffs and the Pens have to be the overwhelming favorites to
    once again win the Stanley Cup. No question about that. Nada!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Nah, the Rangers were so consistent during the season, they have that
    decided edge to them entering the playoffs.  The Pens live day to day
    with the uncertainty that Mario may or may not play, depending on his
    cranky back.
    
    JaKe

    au contraire. Rangers barely beat the Sabres tonight at home; that kind
    of play does not bode well. Pens broke out of the pack in the last few
    weeks to finally win the division, they will likely get the Caps in the
    first round, Rangers will have to face the Islanders - not a good
    situation for the Rangers, a real nightmarish possibility. Mario not
    playing for so much of the season could help the Pens since he is
    fairly well rested without the grind of the regular season - despite
    his recent bitching - taking its toll on him.
    
    Pens have to be considered the favorites and given history the Rangers
    might be lucky to get past the Islanders in the first round. It is
    tough being a Rangers fan.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	So, TCP, you bettin' on the Pens.  What an interesting turn of events!


	billl

JaKe is engaging in some serious sandbagging.

The Pens will mop up if Mario decides he can play.  (I wish my boss would
pay ME when I decide not to work).

However, any team playing the Pens should watch clips from last years
Pens-DEBILS series.  Take a guy, put him ALL OVER Mario, and watch
Mario the Prima Dona get all upset and get off his game.   

'Saw

>>The Pens will mop up if Mario decides he can play.  (I wish my boss would
>>pay ME when I decide not to work).

	We'll see about that.  I'm sure most though the same last year.
	As far as the getting paid when you decide not to work, 'Saw.
	If you were as good at what you do as Mario is at what he does
	you would be treated the same.  

>> Take a guy, put him ALL OVER Mario, and watch
>> Mario the Prima Dona get all upset and get off his game.   

	Sounds a whole lot like Cammie Neeley, too.  What a co-inky-dink!



	billl

|>> Take a guy, put him ALL OVER Mario, and watch
|>> Mario the Prima Dona get all upset and get off his game.   
|
|	Sounds a whole lot like Cammie Neeley, too.  What a co-inky-dink!

NOT.

Anyone's on CAM, he'll pound him, take the 5 and forget about it.

Mario whined so much to the refs last year he was totally off....



I am as good at what I do as Mario is -- I'm just not so overrated....8^)

re: .486

wasn't that Pens-Islanders series??

billl, predicting the Pens, but should there be a Pens-Rangers series
JaKe and I have our p_name bet all set. Rooting and logic are not
the same thing - look at all those Red Sox fans.

The Crazy Met

    
    In the important matter of the Crow note, it sounds like TC* will make
    a visit should the Pens NOT won the Cup?  Does anyone else agree.
    
    brews

    
    	Is this a /Don type bet where somebody gives/takes a goal or
    	two?  Or, is this a manly bet?
    
    Claybone

TCM, 

No, it was the debils series.  Pens won that, but Mario got off his game.

I think the Debils took a lot out of the Pens, and New York won with that
sudden death OT goal from Ray Ferraro I think.....


'saw

>> Rooting and logic are not
>> the same thing - look at all those Red Sox fans.

>> The Crazy Met

	TCP, that's the second time in as many days that you have made snide
	remarks regarding other peoples choices of what team they choose to 
	root for.  Being a Mets & Jets fan I'd think you'd be a little more
	careful not to give folks openings that obvious.


	billl

billl, these days being a Mets and Jets fan just confirms my point.

try again.

The Crazy Met

re: .490

Does that also mean that JaKe/MikeL/whomever else
predicts the Rangers to win the cup need to show up there if the Rangers 
don't win?

The Crazy Met

    Roy always takes it up a notch come playoff time.  I say the Habs will
    repeat, surprise opponent will be Dallas.
    
    Mark.

    I hope not tonight...
    

    Dallas do look good Mark. Don't know about Mtl;somebody'll run Roy.
    
    MikeL
    

Roy was in a zone last year. Will lightning strike twice??

The Crazy Met

	Here you go, TC*.  This is how it's done....

	If'n the Pens get by the Rangers I think they'll win it all.  I don't
	see anyone coming out of the other conference who will even come close 
	to the Pens.  The Rangers are stacked full of talent (notice the
	'pre-seasson' record), but if all are healthy the Pens will dominate
	and beat those bums from New Yuck like a red-headed stepchild!

	Sorry, got a little carried away at the end, there.


	billl

see billl we don't disagree all that much.

Pens-Rangers winners, if it gets to that, will be favored to win it
all.

The Crazy Met

	Damn!  Pens better get their powerful offense in gear.  I know their
	defense has always been suspect, but the O usually picks up the slack
	and then some.


	billl

    Go CAPS!!!!
    
    ;^)

    Folks, much as I hate to say it you just can't trust the Caps to close
    out an upset. They led the Pens 3-1 in 1992 and lost; they led the
    Isles twice 3-1 and lost - when the Isles were favored. Caps start
    series very well and then suck worse than John Casey when it cames to
    closing them out.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    RE:.505
    
    
    Ohmigod!  Was that a statement of committment??
    
    
    jo

    The problem with the Pens so far is the
    
    
    E. J. factor!!!!!!!  Bring EJ to a team, and he cain turn the best of
    teams into a pile of horse dung.
    
    JaKe
    

    If the Rangers and Caps meet in the playoffs the Rangers should easily
    win that series. Ok J?
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    How many Torr was it lasted night?
    

>>  If the Rangers and Caps meet in the playoffs the Rangers should easily
>>  win that series. Ok J?
  
    
    I'm gonna add to your paranoia Craze... Ah don't think so. Don't get
    me wrong, I believe Rangers would win the series, but it won't be
    easy.
    
    
    MikeL
    
    

	The question that begs to be asked....

	If this team is so good, why do they have such a hard time in the 
	first round of the playoffs?

	I wonder if Dean is from Pittsburgh?  And is Eddie Johnson a relative?


	billl

Pittsburgh sucks in the playoffs because Part-Time Mario assumes he's going
to be protected like he is in the regular season, and his head isn't in the
game.

Without Part-Time Mario in the game, Pittsburgh is marginal at best, having
to depend on John Cullen's butt-boy, Jaromir Jagr.....

Or something like that.....


'Saw

>>Without Part-Time Mario in the game, Pittsburgh is marginal at best, having
>>to depend on John Cullen's butt-boy, Jaromir Jagr.....

	You're out to lunch on that one, Frankie.  That "marginal at best"
	team did pretty damn good during the "preseason" with a "Part-Time 
	Mario".  Mario is the only one of the Pens' big scorers, Mario,
	Jagr and Francis, who is scoring in the playoffs.

	Nice try, but you'll have to do better than that.

	
	billl

>	You're out to lunch on that one, Frankie.  That "marginal at best"
>	team did pretty damn good during the "preseason" with a "Part-Time 
>	Mario".  Mario is the only one of the Pens' big scorers, Mario,
>	Jagr and Francis, who is scoring in the playoffs.
>
>	Nice try, but you'll have to do better than that.


How bout they just plain suck with EJ behind the bench......


8^)

In 1992 the Pens were down 3-1 to the Caps and won the series.
Didn't they also come bacl from a 3-1 deficit in a series in 1991???

The Crazy Met
 

    In '91, the Goons were 0-2 to the Broons and then won 4 straight, no?
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Pen were down 3-2 in the first round 1991 playoffs against the Devils.
    The Pens won game 7 on the most unbeleivable save from Pieterangelo.
    
    They were also down 2-1 against the North Stars and 0-2 against the
    Bruins.

>    The Pens won game 7 on the most unbeleivable save from Pieterangelo.
    
He musta used it all up there, because he's been a stiff ever since....8^)

re: .521

sandbaggin' again???

The Crazy Met

 reverse sandbaggin' never works there Jake......

 ;^)

    I ain't sandbagging, just speaking what I feels.  The Pens have played
    lackluster hokey, at best, and I don't think they cain work the 3 in a
    row miracle right now, the way that the Caps are playing.
    
    In all seriousness, I don't think they cain recover from the hole
    they've dug themselves.
    
    JaKe
    

 not, bad. not as good as Craze but not bad. Dripping with sencertiy...

 ;^) a bunch of these.....

 mike

    
>> not, bad. not as good as Craze but not bad. Dripping with sencertiy...
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Cripes, I enter something that is truly the way I feel, and NOBODY
    believes me..............
    
    JaKe
    

	Big difference b/w JaKe's last and TC* is that JaKe says it whilst
	his team is down 3-1.  TC* says it when they are UP 3-0.


	billl

     >> Big difference b/w JaKe's last and TC* is that JaKe says it whilst
     >>	his team is down 3-1.  TC* says it when they are UP 3-0.
    
        That is a rather sizable difference, isn't it? And TCM with the
        unmitigated gall to call someone else a sandbagger can't see that
        difference. Of course, this is the same TCM who have had us be-
        lieve that the Rangers-Islanders matchup would be a blood feud
        between two bitter rivals when the reality is that the vast majority
        of the Rangers' better players are ex-Oilers who really don't give a
        damn about the Islanders. And the Islanders were more concerned
        about not being completely embarassed (they were) than with any
        (non) rivalry. Keep the laughs coming, Met.

And Tommy clearly did not see any of the interviews between periods
or after games and is relying on his information about this series from
that worldly of all papers - the Boston Globe.

Suffice it to say that the NHL muckety-mucks called in the GM's for
both teams after game 3 and warned them that game 4 better not be
one long fight. I don't recall they called in anyone from the
Blues and the Stars before their game 4. Hey, but Tommy you have been
doing such a wonderful job of avoiding the facks until now why
let that bother you now.

The Crazy Met

    Pens won tonight in game five to force a sixth game, final score was
    3-2.
    
    JaKe
    

    gotta wonder if those ghosts from the past are going to start haunting
    the Caps. Game 6 on Wednesday night. Go CAPS!
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Pens are 6-1 since 1990?? in games in which they've faced elimination,
    the lone loss coming lasted year against the Islanders.
    
    JaKe
    GO PENS!!!
    

	By the way, for 'Saw's benifit, Jagr scored the winning goal.
	Something no one from that other black and gold team was able
	to do last night.


	billl

>	By the way, for 'Saw's benifit, Jagr scored the winning goal.
>	Something no one from that other black and gold team was able
>	to do last night.


Pens are still going down.....

So are the Bruins, but the way I figure it, as long as they going down, 
we'll take a few others with us....8^)

is that what you really believe JaKe?? this is the Caps we're talking
about??

The Crazy Met

    Yep.  I believe it.  The Pens just don't seem to have that killer
    instinct right now.
    
    JaKe
    

	I sure hope you're wrong JaKe.  If this team gets knocked out in
	the first round, like they are on the verge of being, it will be
	a major league Deanski!


	billl

    I agree, billl.
    
    AND, if they get knocked out in the firsted round, look fer wholesale
    changes in personell before nexted season.  Baldwin is putting out big
    bucks fer this team and will probably opt fer reducing his payroll if
    the team is only going to be one or 2 round wonders.
    
    JaKe
    

>    AND, if they get knocked out in the firsted round, look fer wholesale
>    changes in personell before nexted season.  Baldwin is putting out big
>    bucks fer this team and will probably opt fer reducing his payroll if
>    the team is only going to be one or 2 round wonders.
    
The main reason they'll go out in the first round is because EJ is
Hockey's version of Dean Smith.

If they lose personnel, and keep EJ, watch for them to be forever mired
in mediocrity until EJ leaves....

By that time, Mario will have retired, never reaching full potential
because of an iffy back and a tendency to dive like a prima donna and
all you'll have is the glory years of a couple ago....

Lose EJ and you might be able to pull something out of the hat.....    

    
>>The main reason they'll go out in the first round is because EJ is
>>Hockey's version of Dean Smith.

>>If they lose personnel, and keep EJ, watch for them to be forever mired
>>in mediocrity until EJ leaves....

    I was never happier than a few year ago when EJ left here fer Hahtfahd.
    I despise the assho...oops, Mac's back....Jerk, yeah that's the ticket.
    
>>By that time, Mario will have retired, never reaching full potential
>>because of an iffy back and a tendency to dive like a prima donna and
>>all you'll have is the glory years of a couple ago....

    Rumor has it that this will be Mario's lasted season, apparently he's
    grown tired of the day to day bs with his back.  Who knows though?
    
>>Lose EJ and you might be able to pull something out of the hat.....    

    Amen, brother.
    
    JaKe
    

    

>    AND, if they get knocked out in the firsted round

look fer me to join y'all in the CROW note

The Crazy Met

	Maybe it's because I'm looking thru black-and-gold tinted glasses,
	but I find it hard to believe that being on consecutive Stanley
	Cup championship teams and winning scoring titles, despite battling
	herniated disks and Hodgkins disease is some how dubbed to be
	"never reaching full potential".

	'Saw, yer beginning to sound like Mac and the Dramatics and their
	one hit wonder, "Pirate fans can't get over Bonds".


	billl

>	Maybe it's because I'm looking thru black-and-gold tinted glasses,
>	but I find it hard to believe that being on consecutive Stanley
>	Cup championship teams and winning scoring titles, despite battling
>	herniated disks and Hodgkins disease is some how dubbed to be
>	"never reaching full potential".
>

Yeah, but Mario made one of those achievements on the backs (no pun
intended) of the others....8^)


And besides, part of the time I do it just to get yer goat, the same
way I rag on Lennox Lewis in the boxing note, to get Tony's goat.

Remember the famous lines from the MrT era:  Reach out and taunt someone  8^)


'Saw

    Gross Underachievers...that's how I see the Pens in the playoffs this
    year.
    
    A non-existant power play for the Pens is what I think hurt them the
    most.
    
    Oh well, there's always nexted year, or the year after that, or the
    year after that....
    
    I just hope they sh_tcan EJ and get someone who cain coach in there. 
    EJ seems to have the knack for fouling things up at the worst possible
    times.
    
    JaKe
    

    heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh 
    
    boy this is enjoyable!!!
    I could get used to this kind of fun verrrrry quickly.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	I think I just had the pleasure of watching the best hockey
    	player I've ever seen play for the last time.  My gut feeling
    	is that Mario will spend winters with his family instead of
    	sparking the flame for the Pengiuns from now on.
    
    	I won't say his last game was an impressive one.  He was 
    	definitly not vintage Mario.  I'm not sure of the final totals,
    	but I think he only had 4 shots on goal with one reaching the net.
    
    	In fairness to Lemieux, as much as he was held in check by Poulin,
    	so was the rest of the high powered, high scoring Penguin 
    	offense.   Ron Francis couldn't even muster an assist in the
    	six game series.
    
    
    	billl
    

    Lemieux came out with a vengeance in tonights game.
    Poulin was just too tough.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    re .-2 > I think I just had the pleasure of watching the best hockey 
           > player I've ever seen play for the last time.
    
    
            Its to bad you never got a chance to see Bobby Orr play.
    
    Jerry

>    re .-2 > I think I just had the pleasure of watching the best hockey 
>           > player I've ever seen play for the last time.
>    
>    
>            Its to bad you never got a chance to see Bobby Orr play.
>

	Come on, one can make the argument that Mario is the best player
to play the game.  After all, you can't compare a mere mortal with Orr.
Everyone in Boston knows Orr was god.  You can't even put them on the
same pedestal!  ;^)

zamboni,  who still leafs through Orr On Ice, and sighs contentedly.

Mario can't even carry Gilmour's jock, how could he ever think to
grovel at the feet of the IMMORTAL Orr.

If you wanna talk all-round great hockey player, no discussion is complete
without mentioning Gordie Howe.  Offense, defense, elbows, longevity, not
afraid to drop the gloves.   Part Time Mario, and ol' LA-Wayne-O measure
up in ONE paltry category to the great Howe....


'Saw

	Like I said, "the gresatest hockey player I've ever seen."
							    ^^^^
	Never seen Howe or Orr.  Can't comment on them.


	billl

>	Never seen Howe or Orr.  Can't comment on them.

Very first hockey game I EVER saw had Howe playing.  What a rush.

Orr I watched on TV as a youngster.  Man, Bobby Orr....he was amazing....


Anyone else out there remember Ted Lindsey, Red Berensen, Yvan Cornoyer,
Stan Mikita and all those guys?

'Saw

>Very first hockey game I EVER saw had Howe playing.  What a rush.

What I meant to say was live and in person.

    Ted Lindsay was a tough dirty goon who, fortunately for him, could
    shoot. He was lucky he played with greats like Howe, Sid Abel,
    and Alex Delvecchio. And he sipped as an TV color man in the 60's/
    70's.
    
    Red Berenson? Was OK but was a castoff who was the best of a mediocre
    bunch in St Loius. Always liked the Plagers though. Both looked like
    they were goalies for a dart team in the off-season.
    
    How about the Big M? quite a career with the Leafs, Wings and Habs.
    Captured a coupla Cups with the Leafs in the 60's and damn him, helped
    the Habs upset the mighty '71 Broons.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

>    Ted Lindsay was a tough dirty goon who, fortunately for him, could
>    shoot. He was lucky he played with greats like Howe, Sid Abel,
>    and Alex Delvecchio. And he sipped as an TV color man in the 60's/
>    70's.

Scarface.  That's what I remember.
    
>    Red Berenson? Was OK but was a castoff who was the best of a mediocre
>    bunch in St Loius. Always liked the Plagers though. Both looked like
>    they were goalies for a dart team in the off-season.

Yep, just a player I remember.
    
>    How about the Big M? quite a career with the Leafs, Wings and Habs.
>    Captured a coupla Cups with the Leafs in the 60's and damn him, helped
>    the Habs upset the mighty '71 Broons.
    
Frank Mahavolitch?

I remember his brother Pete too.


When I think of the Leafs I always think of Davey Keon.


'SAw    
    
    

    The NHL was on Sat. afternoons in late fities and early 60s but
    Canadiens and Bruins were seldom on.
    
    Standouts were Richard (both Maurice and Henri; former still considered
    best by many), Red Kelley, Belliveau (gets all-time votes, insider's
    pick), Milt Schmidt of Bruins (ret. around '56), and Dave Keon who
    spanned 6 team and 12 team periods.
    
    Andy Bathgate of rangers and then (?)Toronto is another.  In those days 
    all the "good" players were traded around: Kelley also played for
    Toronto.
    
    One comment, although Hitting was predominant intent to injure was
    almost non-existent.  the opposite seems to apply today.  And the refs
    had some control of the game then.  As Glen said earlier, they've got
    to do something to expand their audience to general sports public.

Vic Hadfield of the Rangers, and "Fast" Eddie Giacomin (played for
Detroit and the Rangers I remember)

EJ, when he was good (for the Bruins), Cheevers.

Jacques Plante, Emile "The Cat" Francis, Tony Esposito, Doug Favell, 
Bernie Parent... All good goalies...

I remember watching Henri Richard, the Pocket Rocket.

Anyone else remember Lou Angoti from Chicago?  He was one of the first
players that I remember the announcers having to say "The crowd is
yelling "Lou", not booing"

Wow, I'm suprised at everyone I remember....


'Saw

    Elmer "Moose" Vasco the big Chicago defenseman is the one I remember.
    
    Blackhawks even slipped in a stanley cup championship but no regular
    season championship until '67-68.  They had a curse similar to Bambino
    one.

    This has nothing to do with the goons but who cares, they history!@!
    
    My favorite team of the 60's was the Maple Leafs(mostly because the
    Broons with EJ, Jerry Toppazini, Doug Mohns, Bucyk, Tommy Williams
    sipped). The Leafs had the immovable Johhny Bower along with
    Tim Horton, Carl Brewer, FrankieM, Keon, Ron Ellis, BigChief George
    Armstrong, Bobby Baun, Marcel Pronovost etc.. They won some
    Cups in the early 60's and then upset the mighty Habs in the '67
    Cup finals, capturing the Cup in Game 6 in da Forum.. I remember
    watching it on the tube with Jimmy Pappin(before he went to the Hawks)
    scoring a goal to ice it for the Leafs, sweet victoire over LesOgres.
    
    MikeL
    

Blackhawks of 1961 (maybe 1962) are considered to be the best team
to have not won the Cup.

The Crazy Met

    MikeL, actually there were 3 Plager brothers, Billy, Barclay and Bob.
    All did tours with the Blues.  Reason I remember is because as a kid I
    attended hockey camp for a few years and these guys were instructors, 
    as was Scotty Bowman when he coached the Blues.  Bowman would throw you
    out of a lecture if your hair wasn't combed.  A real nasty SOB.
    
    					Steve

    
    
    JaKe
    

    I'd match up the B's of '71 with the Hawks of the early 60's as
    'greatest' teams that did not win a Cup. I condider the '71 Broons
    still in the "6 team" era because the expansion clubs were mere
    whipping boys at that point.
    
    I'm sure there were several 'great' teams throughout the history of the
    NHL who did not win a Cup in the 6 team era.
    
    MikeL
    
    
    Thanks Steve about the Plagers. I had forgotten about Bill.
    
    

B's of '71; was that the team that led the Canadians 1-0 in games
and 5-1 in game 2 and then lost game 2 6-5 in OT??

The Crazy Met

	My comments regarding Lemieux's stature as one of the best
	hockey players "I've seen play the sport" was not to spin off 
	a discussion on who can come up with the most obscure names that 
	were once above average hockey players.

	I was merely commenting on the fact that as a Penguin fan,
	notice we are in note 33, Mario, if he indeed does retire will
	be sorely missed.  I, for one, am thankful for the entertainment
	and thrills he provided.

	Feel free to take the SDUC on ancient has-beens to the NHL note,
	wherever it may be.


	billl

    B's in '71 ran away from the league and were heavy favorites to
    repeat as Cup champs; Canadiens finished fourth I believe.
    
    The matchups were set as the regular season ended with Boston and
    Montreal playing a home and home. The Bruins pounded the Habs in
    both games, outscoring them like 17-3.
    
    The playoffs began in Boston three says later and it seemed as if
    the B's would roll as they played with the Habs 5-1 to take Game 1.
    They seemed to be rolling along in Game 2, leading 5-1 late in the
    second period when it fell apart. Canadiens scored 6 straight goals
    to win 7-5. The teams went to Montreal and split the two games with
    the Bruins rallying to take Game 4. Again back in Boston for Game 5,
    the Bruins pummelled the Habs 7-3 to go up 3-2. Boston must have
    thought it was all over; they played uninspired in Montreal and
    came back to the Garden 3-3. We all know what happened. Montreal
    took advantage of several Bruin mistakes and held on to win.
    Dryden was immense the whole series (except Game 5 but in particular
    Game 7). The whole city was stunned..
    
    MikeL
    

Mario was good.  He was uncanny, he was talented, and he will be missed.

But, he wasn't the God that the tv color men describe him to be.  The
pee-pee smooching of some of them, in particular Bill Clement who was
astounded that Mario would think to bank a pass off the boards, reminded
me of the scene in the Last Emperor, where the servants of the Emperor
gather around a small bowl of turds the toddler Emperor has just
made, and almost worship it.

Mario is a victim of the times, just like Wayne-O, that worship great
offensive potential despite a complete lack of defensive, or pugilistic
skills.

Sad to see him go (who else would I have to rag on then?) and wish him
all the best, but won't miss the pee-pee smooching analysts who inhale
deeply over that little bowl of turds and worship the smell....


'Saw

    We oldtimers won't take offense to the "has-beens" comment.  Fact is we
    our eyes mist with tears at the thought of all those 30 and under folk
    who will never get to see a real hockey game since it ended with
    expansion.
    
    Fortuneatly for the young tads they don't seem to what they're missing
    and can actually view the majority of games today and think they are
    watching hockey.
    
    Yeh, a few of us come around come cup time and possibly a Leafs game
    will resemble in some small way real hockey.
    
    And for the most part the same goes for the other sports except they
    have made up for the talent dilution with athleticism or equipment or a
    jazzed up ball (not the first time for that though).
    
    Billte

    Peter Taglianetti(sp?) and Tom Barrasso, and the Pens Strength and
    conditioning coach were arrested the other night fer a multitude of
    charges.
    
    Taglianetti was charged with aggravated assault(felony) for beating the
    shit out of a patron at Froggy's Bar in downtown Pittsburgh, after the
    Pens breakup dinner at the same establishment.  The Pens coach was
    charged with aggravated assault and making terroristic threats after he
    head butted the same p[atron, breaking his nose, and threatened to kill
    him right there.
    
    Barrasso was to be charged with making terroristic threats after
    witnesses heard him telling the same patron he was going to have a
    helluva time getting around with two broken knees.
    
    The fracus took place after the Pens meal was over, and the three
    Penguins in question entered the bar area.  Taglianetti, who many say
    was extremely intoxicated, was "dancing" around the bar, and repeatedly
    ran into the patron.  The patron asked Taglianetti to please stop it,
    at least three times, and even offered to buy Taglianetti a drink or
    two.  After one time when the patron requested he stop, Taglianetti
    punched him in the face repeatedly.  The S&C coach then grabbed the
    patron by the neck, and said he was going to kill him, then head butted
    him in the face, breaking his nose.  Taglianetti then returned and hit
    the patron two or three more times.
    
    Barrasso was seen later talking to the patron, and telling him that
    "what happened tonight isn't the end of it.  How are you going to feel
    trying to get around with broken knees??"
    
    JaKe
    

That patron asked for it.  He should have left the bar instead of hanging
around egging them into it.

The Chainsaw knows how to party with hockey players -- ask Kev, JD and
Chris.  They partied wif them too....


'Saw

   >> That patron asked for it.  He should have left the bar instead 
   >> of hanging around egging them into it.

      I hope your kidding. 
    

|   >> That patron asked for it.  He should have left the bar instead 
|   >> of hanging around egging them into it.
|
|      I hope your kidding. 

Tommy, you know me better than that, of course I am.


However, in the past, when I've been in semi-similar situations, especially
if I'm with someone, I'll leave a bar rather than stay and have something
happen.  It's too easy in an environment with all that alcohol and
Jack-Daniels-Induced-Machismo to have something like that happen.

Although that night I kicked Scott Young's butt up at the OPP was
pretty cool....8^)


'Saw
    

    	If the Pengoons showed that kind of meanness on the ice they
    may still be playing...
    
    				  /Don

	If "if's and but's" were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas!


	billl

I had a girl named Candy once....  And boy was she NUTS!

|I had a girl named Candy once....  And boy was she NUTS!

Candy is dandy, but liquor is ...

>Candy is dandy, but liquor is ...

Quicker....or gross, depending....


Vice is nice, but incest is best.....