| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 10.1 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | Another NEW Boston Garden gone | Mon Jan 11 1993 16:06 | 4 |
| Hey Craze, did you enjoy that great comeback by the Knickerbockers
that fell just short? I did.
/Don
|
| 10.2 | | GOMETS::mccarthy | Mike McCarthy MRO4-3/C19 297-4531 | Mon Jan 11 1993 18:49 | 4 |
| The Timberwolves fired Jimmy Rodgers and replaced him with
interim coach Sidney Lowe.
Mike
|
| 10.3 | Suns are still #1 | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Mon Jan 11 1993 19:03 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.4 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Be a team player... | Mon Jan 11 1993 19:44 | 2 |
| Sidney Lowe? Who's the assistant coach? Lorenzo Charles?
|
| 10.5 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Tue Jan 12 1993 03:30 | 5 |
| Finally got in here. Yeah the Knicks comeback was fun to watch, too bad
they missed those 2 open jumpers at the end.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.6 | | DECWET::METZGER | I don't think so, Tim. | Tue Jan 12 1993 16:36 | 10 |
|
The two teams with the best records in the NBA battle it out tonight...
I'm talking about the Sonics and the Suns. I'm looking forward to a good
game and (hopefully) an official end to the Suns whining streak.
Sonics defense has led their emergence as a powerhouse this year. If they
had a true 7 foot center they'd be awesome....(benjamin doesn't count).
Metz
|
| 10.7 | same goes for Phoenix | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Tue Jan 12 1993 18:47 | 4 |
| > Sonics defense has led their emergence as a powerhouse this year. If they
>had a true 7 foot center they'd be awesome....(benjamin doesn't count).
|
| 10.8 | | DECWET::METZGER | I don't think so, Tim. | Tue Jan 12 1993 21:02 | 7 |
| Sorry Mike but ranking 18th in the league in defense doesn't qualify the Suns
as a defensive powerhouse....
Ranking 4th in the league without a decent center is something to talk about.
Metz
|
| 10.9 | clarification | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Tue Jan 12 1993 21:10 | 1 |
| Is that points allowed, FG% or both?
|
| 10.10 | | DECWET::METZGER | I don't think so, Tim. | Tue Jan 12 1993 21:35 | 10 |
|
Da paper just says defensive rank...
Suns at the bottom, Sonics at the top...
and we know what wins championships don't we?
Metz
|
| 10.11 | wait until the Suns learn how to play together! | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Tue Jan 12 1993 22:25 | 5 |
| C'mon Metz, don't give me that T-like spin move. State your sources
and facks.
Besides, even if your "paper" is correct, we still have 75% of the
season left.
|
| 10.12 | NBA standings through games of January 11 | PLUGH::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Wed Jan 13 1993 01:00 | 348 |
|
-- EASTERN Conference --
ATLANTIC W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
New York 19 12 0.613 -- 5- 5 lost 2 14- 3 5- 9 8- 3 15- 8
New Jersey 18 15 0.545 2.0 6- 4 won 1 8- 7 10- 8 6- 7 11-10
Orlando 14 14 0.500 3.5 5- 5 lost 1 10- 7 4- 7 6- 5 10- 9
Boston 17 17 0.500 3.5 6- 4 won 5 10- 5 7-12 7- 5 12-11
Philadelphia 11 18 0.379 7.0 6- 4 won 3 5-10 6- 8 5- 5 9-12
Miami 10 21 0.323 9.0 4- 6 won 1 7- 8 3-13 3- 6 6-14
Washington 10 22 0.313 9.5 3- 7 lost 2 7- 8 3-14 3- 7 6-17
CENTRAL W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
Chicago 23 10 0.697 -- 7- 3 lost 1 13- 4 10- 6 10- 3 17- 7
Cleveland 20 13 0.606 3.0 8- 2 won 2 15- 4 5- 9 7- 4 12- 7
Charlotte 17 14 0.548 5.0 6- 4 won 2 8- 7 9- 7 3- 5 10-10
Detroit 16 16 0.500 6.5 4- 6 lost 3 10- 6 6-10 6- 7 14- 9
Indiana 15 17 0.469 7.5 3- 7 won 1 8- 6 7-11 4- 8 10-14
Atlanta 14 17 0.452 8.0 4- 6 won 2 6-10 8- 7 5- 8 10-15
Milwaukee 14 18 0.438 8.5 4- 6 lost 3 9- 7 5-11 5- 5 10- 9
-- WESTERN Conference --
MIDWEST W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
Utah 21 10 0.677 -- 7- 3 lost 1 10- 4 11- 6 9- 4 11- 6
San Antonio 18 13 0.581 3.0 8- 2 won 3 11- 4 7- 9 8- 5 13- 9
Houston 15 16 0.484 6.0 2- 8 won 1 10- 6 5-10 9- 3 11-12
Denver 8 22 0.267 12.5 1- 9 lost 1 7- 7 1-15 4- 5 7-15
Minnesota 6 23 0.207 14.0 1- 9 lost 4 3-12 3-11 3- 5 3-14
Dallas 2 27 0.069 18.0 0-10 lost 12 2-14 0-13 0-11 1-22
PACIFIC W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
Phoenix 23 5 0.821 -- 9- 1 won 2 12- 1 11- 4 9- 3 16- 4
Seattle 22 8 0.733 2.0 9- 1 won 5 15- 1 7- 7 7- 3 15- 4
Portland 20 10 0.667 4.0 6- 4 lost 1 13- 4 7- 6 5- 5 12- 7
Golden State 18 14 0.563 7.0 7- 3 won 2 8- 6 10- 8 4- 7 12- 8
Los Angeles 18 14 0.563 7.0 4- 6 lost 1 9- 7 9- 7 6- 7 13- 9
Los Angeles 17 16 0.515 8.5 4- 6 won 1 10- 5 7-11 3- 6 7-10
Sacramento 13 17 0.433 11.0 7- 3 won 1 10- 6 3-11 4- 7 8- 9
-- EASTERN Conference --
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
ATLANTIC AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Boston 104.1 105.2 -1.1 108.1 103.0 5.1 101.0 106.9 -5.9
Miami 101.5 104.3 -2.7 104.3 103.8 0.5 98.9 104.7 -5.8
New Jersey 104.8 104.6 0.3 105.5 103.5 2.0 104.3 105.4 -1.2
New York 96.9 92.4 4.5 98.1 89.8 8.4 95.4 95.5 -0.1
Orlando 106.3 103.8 2.6 105.6 100.6 5.1 107.4 108.6 -1.3
Philadelphia 107.6 111.9 -4.2 108.3 110.5 -2.2 106.9 113.3 -6.4
Washington 103.5 110.8 -7.3 105.9 105.2 0.7 101.4 115.7 -14.4
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
CENTRAL AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Atlanta 103.4 106.9 -3.6 104.6 110.0 -5.4 102.1 103.7 -1.6
Charlotte 111.4 110.7 0.7 111.1 109.5 1.6 111.7 111.8 -0.1
Chicago 103.5 99.0 4.5 102.5 94.5 8.0 104.6 103.8 0.8
Cleveland 108.4 101.8 6.6 111.9 100.1 11.8 103.6 104.1 -0.5
Detroit 97.8 98.7 -0.9 101.0 97.4 3.6 94.5 100.0 -5.5
Indiana 107.1 106.3 0.9 108.6 102.4 6.3 105.9 109.3 -3.3
Milwaukee 101.8 104.3 -2.5 103.2 99.6 3.6 100.4 109.0 -8.6
-- WESTERN Conference --
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
MIDWEST AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Dallas 99.8 117.7 -17.9 103.8 117.3 -13.5 94.8 118.2 -23.3
Denver 103.4 111.5 -8.1 107.9 106.9 1.0 99.5 115.6 -16.1
Houston 100.3 101.6 -1.3 101.1 99.9 1.2 99.5 103.4 -3.9
Minnesota 98.0 106.3 -8.3 98.3 104.8 -6.5 97.6 107.9 -10.3
San Antonio 106.9 101.9 4.9 107.7 100.2 7.5 106.1 103.6 2.5
Utah 107.8 102.2 5.5 111.4 101.3 10.1 104.8 103.0 1.8
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
PACIFIC AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Golden State 113.9 112.3 1.6 114.4 110.9 3.6 113.5 113.4 0.1
Los Angeles 107.9 106.7 1.2 109.1 103.9 5.2 106.9 109.1 -2.2
Los Angeles 102.2 101.2 1.0 105.3 102.3 3.0 99.1 100.1 -0.9
Phoenix 113.8 106.3 7.5 117.4 106.2 11.2 110.7 106.4 4.3
Portland 108.7 104.4 4.4 110.8 102.5 8.4 106.0 106.8 -0.8
Sacramento 108.7 106.8 1.9 113.2 103.4 9.8 103.5 110.6 -7.1
Seattle 108.7 100.1 8.5 114.4 100.3 14.2 102.1 100.0 2.1
ATLANTIC Division
ATLANTIC -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 7- 5 x 1-1 2-0 1-2 1-0 1-1 1-1
Miami 3- 6 1-1 x 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-1 0-1
New Jersey 6- 7 0-2 1-1 x 0-2 2-0 1-2 2-0
New York 8- 3 2-1 1-0 2-0 x 1-1 1-0 1-1
Orlando 6- 5 0-1 1-1 0-2 1-1 x 2-0 2-0
Philadelphia 5- 5 1-1 1-0 2-1 0-1 0-2 x 1-0
Washington 3- 7 1-1 1-0 0-2 1-1 0-2 0-1 x
ATLANTIC -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 5- 6 0-2 3-0 1-1 0-1 0-0 1-1 0-1
Miami 3- 8 0-2 1-1 0-2 0-0 1-1 1-1 0-1
New Jersey 5- 3 2-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-1 1-0
New York 7- 5 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-1 1-1 2-0 1-1
Orlando 4- 4 1-0 0-1 0-0 1-0 0-2 1-1 1-0
Philadelphia 4- 7 1-1 0-1 2-0 0-1 0-2 1-1 0-1
Washington 3-10 2-0 0-2 0-2 0-2 0-2 0-1 1-1
ATLANTIC -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 4- 2 0-0 1-0 1-0 2-0 0-0 0-2
Miami 1- 3 1-0 0-0 0-1 0-0 0-1 0-1
New Jersey 3- 2 0-0 0-0 0-0 1-1 1-0 1-1
New York 2- 0 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 0-0
Orlando 2- 0 0-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 0-0 1-0
Philadelphia 0- 3 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-2
Washington 3- 2 0-0 0-0 0-0 1-1 1-0 1-1
ATLANTIC -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 1- 4 0-0 1-1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-2
Miami 3- 4 0-2 0-0 2-0 0-1 0-0 1-1 0-0
New Jersey 4- 3 0-1 1-0 1-0 0-1 0-0 2-0 0-1
New York 2- 4 0-0 0-2 0-0 0-0 1-1 0-0 1-1
Orlando 2- 5 1-1 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-0 1-0 0-1
Philadelphia 2- 3 0-0 1-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 1-0
Washington 1- 3 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-0
CENTRAL Division
CENTRAL -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 5- 7 2-0 2-0 0-2 0-1 0-1 1-1 0-2
Charlotte 7- 5 0-3 1-1 1-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 2-0
Chicago 7- 4 1-1 2-0 1-0 1-1 0-0 0-2 2-0
Cleveland 5- 3 1-0 0-0 0-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 2-0
Detroit 8- 2 0-0 1-1 0-0 1-1 2-0 2-0 2-0
Indiana 6- 6 1-1 1-1 1-0 0-2 1-1 1-1 1-0
Milwaukee 5- 4 1-0 1-0 0-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-1
CENTRAL -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 5- 8 x 0-1 2-0 0-2 1-2 1-1 1-2
Charlotte 3- 5 1-0 x 0-2 0-1 2-0 0-2 0-0
Chicago 10- 3 0-2 2-0 x 2-1 1-0 3-0 2-0
Cleveland 7- 4 2-0 1-0 1-2 x 1-1 1-0 1-1
Detroit 6- 7 2-1 0-2 0-1 1-1 x 2-1 1-1
Indiana 4- 8 1-1 2-0 0-3 0-1 1-2 x 0-1
Milwaukee 5- 5 2-1 0-0 0-2 1-1 1-1 1-0 x
CENTRAL -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 4- 2 0-1 1-0 0-1 1-0 2-0 0-0
Charlotte 3- 1 2-0 1-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-1
Chicago 2- 1 0-0 1-0 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-0
Cleveland 4- 2 1-0 0-0 1-1 1-0 0-1 1-0
Detroit 1- 3 0-0 0-1 1-0 0-1 0-1 0-0
Indiana 1- 1 0-0 1-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-1
Milwaukee 3- 2 1-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-1 0-1
CENTRAL -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 0- 0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0
Charlotte 4- 3 2-0 1-1 0-0 0-2 0-0 1-0 0-0
Chicago 4- 2 1-0 0-0 0-2 1-0 1-0 0-0 1-0
Cleveland 4- 4 1-0 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-2 1-1 1-0
Detroit 1- 4 0-1 1-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-0 0-1
Indiana 4- 2 1-0 1-1 0-0 0-0 1-1 1-0 0-0
Milwaukee 1- 7 0-1 0-1 1-1 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-1
MIDWEST Division
MIDWEST -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 0- 1 0-0 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0
Denver 0- 2 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-0
Houston 1- 2 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-0 0-0
Minnesota 2- 5 0-2 0-0 1-1 0-1 0-0 0-0 1-1
San Antonio 2- 2 0-0 1-0 0-1 0-0 0-0 1-0 0-1
Utah 7- 3 2-0 1-0 1-1 0-0 0-1 2-0 1-1
MIDWEST -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 1- 4 1-0 0-2 0-0 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-1
Denver 1- 5 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-0 1-0 0-1 0-1
Houston 3- 2 1-0 0-0 1-0 1-1 0-1 0-0 0-0
Minnesota 1- 4 0-1 0-0 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-1
San Antonio 3- 2 0-2 0-0 0-0 1-0 1-0 0-0 1-0
Utah 3- 1 0-0 1-0 0-0 0-1 0-0 1-0 1-0
MIDWEST -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 0-11 x 0-0 0-2 0-3 0-3 0-3
Denver 4- 5 0-0 x 2-1 1-0 1-2 0-2
Houston 9- 3 2-0 1-2 x 2-0 3-0 1-1
Minnesota 3- 5 3-0 0-1 0-2 x 0-0 0-2
San Antonio 8- 5 3-0 2-1 0-3 0-0 x 3-1
Utah 9- 4 3-0 2-0 1-1 2-0 1-3 x
MIDWEST -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 1-11 0-2 0-2 1-1 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-2
Denver 3-10 1-0 1-1 0-2 0-2 0-2 1-1 0-2
Houston 2- 9 0-2 1-0 0-1 0-2 0-2 1-0 0-2
Minnesota 0- 9 0-2 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-0 0-1 0-2
San Antonio 5- 4 0-1 1-0 1-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-0
Utah 2- 2 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-1 1-0 0-0 0-0
PACIFIC Division
PACIFIC -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 4- 1 0-0 2-0 1-0 0-0 1-1 0-0 0-0
Los Angeles 5- 3 1-1 0-0 0-1 2-0 1-0 1-1 0-0
Los Angeles 2- 3 0-0 0-2 0-1 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0
Phoenix 4- 0 0-0 1-0 1-0 0-0 1-0 0-0 1-0
Portland 3- 1 0-0 0-0 0-0 1-1 0-0 1-0 1-0
Sacramento 3- 5 1-0 1-1 0-2 0-0 0-1 1-0 0-1
Seattle 5- 2 2-0 0-0 1-0 1-1 1-0 0-1 0-0
PACIFIC -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 2- 5 0-0 0-2 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 1-0
Los Angeles 5- 3 0-0 1-1 0-0 1-0 1-1 1-1 1-0
Los Angeles 3- 2 0-0 0-0 2-0 0-1 0-0 0-0 1-1
Phoenix 3- 1 0-0 2-0 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-0 1-0
Portland 5- 2 0-0 0-0 0-1 2-0 1-0 1-1 1-0
Sacramento 2- 3 0-0 0-1 0-0 1-1 0-0 0-1 1-0
Seattle 2- 2 0-0 0-0 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 1-0
PACIFIC -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 8- 1 2-0 0-1 2-0 2-0 1-0 1-0
Los Angeles 4- 4 2-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 0-1
Los Angeles 7- 2 1-1 2-0 1-0 2-0 1-1 0-0
Phoenix 7- 1 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-0 0-1 1-0
Portland 7- 2 2-0 2-0 2-0 0-0 1-1 0-1
Sacramento 4- 2 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-0 0-0
Seattle 8- 1 2-0 2-0 2-0 2-0 0-1 0-0
PACIFIC -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 4- 7 x 2-0 0-2 1-2 0-2 1-0 0-1
Los Angeles 3- 6 0-2 x 1-1 1-1 0-0 1-1 0-1
Los Angeles 6- 7 2-0 1-1 x 0-2 2-0 1-2 0-2
Phoenix 9- 3 2-1 1-1 2-0 x 1-1 1-0 2-0
Portland 5- 5 2-0 0-0 0-2 1-1 x 2-0 0-2
Sacramento 4- 7 0-1 1-1 2-1 0-1 0-2 x 1-1
Seattle 7- 3 1-0 1-0 2-0 0-2 2-0 1-1 x
|
| 10.13 | rankings by strength of schedule | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Wed Jan 13 1993 20:17 | 115 |
| Article 28046 of rec.sport.basketball.pro:
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!spool.mu.edu!olivea!isc-br!scottb.isc-br.com!scottb
From: scottb@ppc-a.isc-br.com (SCOTT BURRINGTON)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Rating Schedule Strength by Days of Rest
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:25:34 GMT
Lines: 107
I was wondering whether any teams had a schedule advantage by
having more games versus teams who are playing the second of
a pair of back-to-back games, so I took some code from the
nba.c program and made a few tables.
This first table shows how many games each team plays against
opponents who have had 0 to 6 games rest before that contest.
For example, the number under the 2 column shows how many games
a team has where their opponent has had 2 days rest since their
last game. The Tot. column is the total number of days of rest
that a team's opponents have had for the entire season, which
provides an index for how well rested for the season a team's
opponents are.
************ TABLE A ************
Team 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 Tot.
====================================================
LA Lakers : 30 38 10 3 1 0 0 71
Golden State : 25 39 16 2 0 0 0 77
Indiana : 25 42 10 4 1 0 0 78
Milwaukee : 27 38 11 5 0 1 0 80
Denver : 26 39 13 2 1 0 1 81
New Jersey : 24 42 11 3 1 1 0 82
Dallas : 22 40 18 2 0 0 0 82
Miami : 26 38 12 4 1 1 0 83
Detroit : 20 47 13 0 1 0 1 83
Washington : 26 35 16 3 2 0 0 84
Utah : 21 45 11 2 2 1 0 86
Minnesota : 19 45 15 2 0 1 0 86
Atlanta : 24 36 16 4 2 0 0 88
Boston : 22 38 17 3 1 1 0 90
Phoenix : 17 45 16 3 1 0 0 90
Charlotte : 23 37 16 4 1 0 1 91
Sacramento : 20 39 19 2 1 1 0 92
Seattle : 18 45 13 4 1 1 0 92
Houston : 17 44 15 5 1 0 0 93
Cleveland : 20 40 16 4 0 2 0 94
Chicago : 23 37 13 5 3 1 0 95
San Antonio : 16 42 18 5 1 0 0 97
Philadelphia : 20 41 11 6 3 1 0 98
LA Clippers : 21 33 20 6 2 0 0 99
New York : 20 34 20 7 1 0 0 99
Portland : 17 40 18 5 1 1 0 100
Orlando : 15 42 18 3 4 0 0 103
============
2394 (Avg.= 88.66)
Table A shows the Lakers having the advantage of playing
opponents who are the least rested (71 rest days), including
having a league leading 30 games against teams who played the
night before. Orlando gets the hard luck schedule, playing
well rested opponents (103 rest days) and having only 15 games
where the opposition played the night before.
However, Table A doesn't account for how rested the primary
team is when it plays. For example, it may not be an advantage
to play a team who played the night before if your team also
played the night before.
Table B shows how many games a team has with an advantage or
disadvantage of days of rest. For example, the column -2 shows
how many games a team had where their opponent had 2 more days
of rest than they did. The Tot. column adds up this number for
each game, once again giving an index of how much more rested
a team will be compared to its opponents.
************ TABLE B ************
Team 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 Tot.
========================================================================
LA Lakers : 0 1 1 2 6 16 36 16 2 2 0 0 0 17
Golden State : 0 1 0 2 5 15 40 14 5 0 0 0 0 12
Indiana : 0 0 0 1 7 15 44 10 3 2 0 0 0 10
Milwaukee : 0 0 0 3 2 19 37 19 1 1 0 0 0 8
Denver : 0 0 0 2 6 18 35 18 2 0 0 0 1 8
New Jersey : 0 0 0 4 3 16 42 9 6 2 0 0 0 7
Dallas : 1 0 0 2 1 15 45 14 3 1 0 0 0 6
Detroit : 0 0 1 2 4 14 42 15 3 0 0 1 0 6
Miami : 0 0 0 2 0 17 50 9 3 1 0 0 0 5
Washington : 0 0 0 2 4 16 38 19 3 0 0 0 0 5
Minnesota : 0 0 0 4 4 8 45 17 4 0 0 0 0 3
Utah : 0 0 0 3 3 16 41 14 3 1 0 1 0 3
Atlanta : 0 0 0 0 4 18 42 13 2 3 0 0 0 0
Boston : 0 1 0 2 4 12 41 16 2 4 0 0 0 -1
Phoenix : 0 0 0 0 7 12 43 14 5 1 0 0 0 -1
Charlotte : 0 0 1 2 1 19 36 15 5 3 0 0 0 -3
Seattle : 0 0 0 1 2 19 41 12 4 3 0 0 0 -3
Houston : 0 0 0 0 1 19 45 11 4 2 0 0 0 -4
Sacramento : 0 0 0 2 2 18 38 16 4 1 0 1 0 -4
Cleveland : 0 0 0 0 4 14 45 14 3 1 1 0 0 -5
Chicago : 0 0 0 2 4 14 44 8 6 2 2 0 0 -6
San Antonio : 0 0 0 0 5 11 43 19 2 2 0 0 0 -8
Philadelphia : 0 0 0 4 3 8 41 21 1 4 0 0 0 -9
LA Clippers : 0 0 0 1 3 19 33 18 4 4 0 0 0 -10
New York : 0 0 1 1 3 11 43 15 5 3 0 0 0 -10
Portland : 0 0 0 2 4 11 36 22 7 0 0 0 0 -11
Orlando : 0 0 0 1 3 14 40 16 3 4 1 0 0 -15
I was suprised at how well the two tables matched up. Once again
the Lakers show a higher rested index than anyone else, with Orlando
bringing up the rear. At the extreme ends, the Denver at Dallas game
on 02/24 has Denver playing their 2nd game in two nights while Dallas
is coming off 6 days of rest.
-Scott
|
| 10.14 | | ROYALT::ASHE | It's big, heavy, it's wood... | Wed Jan 13 1993 21:53 | 2 |
| Garfield Heard is the interim head coach of the Dallas Mavericks.
|
| 10.15 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | take me to Roslyn Cafe | Thu Jan 14 1993 11:06 | 5 |
|
my, my, my is anyone else as surprised as me that the Lakers would enjoy a
scheduling advantage? ~/~
mike
|
| 10.16 | just a fraction of their former selves | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Thu Jan 14 1993 13:51 | 1 |
| Mike, they need all the help they can get nowadays.
|
| 10.17 | First good Nuggets news this season | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Will Note for food | Thu Jan 14 1993 14:22 | 6 |
| Da Nuggets stomped the Knicks and Pat Riley last night I only saw pieces
of the game but they dominated the Knicks on both sides of the court.
Lfonso Ellis looked real good even if he's a ND type guy.
Jeff
|
| 10.18 | Hey, a possible winning streak | BSS::JCOTANCH | | Thu Jan 14 1993 14:50 | 5 |
| > -< First good Nuggets news this season >-
But the better news is that the next games are against Minnesota and Dallas.
Joe
|
| 10.19 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jan 14 1993 14:51 | 3 |
| What was the final score. It was 47-47 late in the first half.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.20 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jan 14 1993 15:11 | 6 |
| 10.21 | quiet Mac or I'll sick my dog on ya | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Thu Jan 14 1993 16:10 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.22 | current standings | FRETZ::HEISER | arms raised in a V | Fri Jan 15 1993 16:33 | 37 |
| Western Conference
Pacific Division
Phoenix 24 6 .800 --
Seattle 23 9 .719 2
Portland 22 10 .687 3
LA Lakers 18 15 .545 7 1/2
Golden State 18 16 .529 8
LA Clippers 18 17 .514 8 1/2
Sacramento 13 19 .406 12
Midwest Division
W L Pct. GB
Utah 23 10 .697 --
San Antonio 20 13 .606 3
Houston 17 16 .515 6
Denver 9 28 .243 13 1/2
Minnesota 6 24 .200 15 1/2
Dallas 2 28 .067 19 1/2
Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division
W L Pct. GB
New York 20 13 .606 --
New Jersey 19 15 .559 1 1/2
Boston 19 17 .528 2 1/2
Orlando 14 15 .483 4
Philadelphia 11 20 .355 8
Washington 11 23 .323 9 1/2
Miami 10 23 .303 10
Central Division
Chicago 24 10 .706 --
Cleveland 20 15 .571 4 1/2
Charlotte 17 15 .531 6
Detroit 17 17 .500 7
Indiana 16 17 .485 7 1/2
Atlanta 16 17 .485 7 1/2
Milwaukee 14 20 .412 10
|
| 10.23 | Woofs are favored by 4 | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Remember Twins/Braves in '91? | Fri Jan 15 1993 19:06 | 7 |
| Re: .18
Possibly, but as I predicted in the Woofie note, I'm looking for a
Minnesota win tonight against Denver.
Spud
|
| 10.24 | NBA news | HBAHBA::HAAS | A Log of Effort | Fri Jan 22 1993 15:36 | 39 |
| NBA in the news.
Dream Team 2: USA Basketball who brought us The Dream Team are in the
process of selecting a team to play in nexted year's World Championship
at Toronto. Mentioned as possible are Shaq from the Magic, Zo and LJ from
the Hornets, Mark Price and Brad Daugherty from the Cavs, KJ from the
Suns, and Tim Hardaway from Golden State. One college player will be
selected.
Bernard King has been cut by the Bullets. Any team can get him for the
league minimum while Washington gets to pay him the 2.5 mil guaranteed
for this year.
San Antonio hasn't lost since Avery Johnson started playing point guard
for the Spurs. One of the main points of contention there has been the
lack of a quality 1 guard and now it seems they've found their man who
had been cut by the Spurs. At least the Admiral seems to be happy.
Trading Deadline is Feb 25th. Just about everybody seems to think that
the Clippers will be busy attempting to unload a bunch of players. Kenny
Norman and Danny Manning, who are both up for free agency this or nexted
year, have been prominently mentioned.
Dallas hopes that getting a new coach might influence Jimmy Jackson to
reconsider his position. Quinn Buckner seems to be in line for the job.
Tonight's games:
New York at Philadelphia
Phoenix at Washington
Miami at Orlando
New Jersey at Atlanta
Lakers at Utah
Charlotte at Chicago (ugh!)
Detroit at San Antonio
Cleveland at Clippers
Seattle at Golden State
Sacramento at Portland
TTom
|
| 10.25 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Billary takes U.S. hostage | Fri Jan 22 1993 17:40 | 15 |
| >San Antonio hasn't lost since Avery Johnson started playing point guard
>for the Spurs. One of the main points of contention there has been the
>lack of a quality 1 guard and now it seems they've found their man who
>had been cut by the Spurs. At least the Admiral seems to be happy.
That's not totally true. Avery was playing the point when Tark was still
there. They've also lost at least once (Warriors, NBA gave them one
besides) since Lucas took over and Avery has been starting since Lucas
joined them.
On the other hand, he's been playing extremely well since Lucas has
given him a vote of confidence. He's had over 30 rotis. points in the
past few games I've seen in the boxscores.
Mike
|
| 10.26 | | ROYALT::ASHE | It's big, heavy, it's wood... | Mon Jan 25 1993 15:55 | 3 |
| The Spurs haven't lost since Johnson started at the point guard
position, moving DelNegro to shooting guard.
|
| 10.27 | hope this helps | FRETZ::HEISER | Billary takes U.S. hostage | Mon Jan 25 1993 17:28 | 4 |
| That's the first move Lucas made when he took over and they're 14-2
under him.
Mike
|
| 10.28 | | CAMONE::WAY | Cheez-Whiz, Choice of Champions | Tue Jan 26 1993 11:29 | 14 |
| On an off day from playing, Manute Bol, at 7'7" the tallest man in the
NBA, decided to visit Trump's Taj Mahal. He was playing one of the new
"High Roller" slot machines when he hit it for
$486,000
Included in the prize was a new Mercedes, which Bol refused, taking the
price (30K) instead.
Not bad for an afternoon off, eh?
'Saw
|
| 10.29 | | GRANPA::DFAUST | With every wish,there comes a curse | Tue Jan 26 1993 13:12 | 11 |
| re: .28
It was his wife, not Bol himself, that hit for the $486K.
Also, he has committed to sendfing that money to the Sudan (his native
country) for famine relief.
A pretty neat story... the casino money going for a good use.
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.30 | | CAMONE::WAY | Cheez-Whiz, Choice of Champions | Tue Jan 26 1993 13:16 | 10 |
| > Also, he has committed to sendfing that money to the Sudan (his native
> country) for famine relief.
>
> A pretty neat story... the casino money going for a good use.
That's great. I had not heard that......
'Saw
|
| 10.31 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Everyone/thing needs a name | Tue Jan 26 1993 16:15 | 3 |
| The MACnuggets won their 3rd in a row! Will miracles ever cease?
Tim
|
| 10.32 | amazing..... | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Jan 28 1993 16:53 | 10 |
| Tim,
I got a better one.
2 days ago the Exit 16W Nets once again beat the LA Lakers!
I remain,
cold here 'cause hell musta froze over!
Kev
|
| 10.33 | Top 15 Rookies | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Mon Feb 01 1993 18:17 | 19 |
| Player Team PO GP Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score DEC
Shaquille O'Neal ORL C 29 37.9 22.7 14.8 1.69 4.66 162. 39.1
Alonzo Mourning CHA C 27 30.4 18.1 10 1.11 4.04 124. 29.3
Eric Murdock MIL G 33 31.9 14.2 3.55 7.18 2.33 115. 25.0
Tom Gugliotta WAS F 33 33.7 15.3 9.76 3.64 2.06 113. 28.7
Christian Laettner MIN CF 29 34.1 18.3 7.97 2.45 1.97 97.6 28.7
Robert Horry HOU F 32 31.2 10.3 5.44 2.13 2.31 80.9 17.8
Walt Williams SAC G 31 24.3 14.5 4.35 2.61 1.81 77.4 21.5
Clar. WeatherspooPHI F 30 29.7 14.0 6.97 1.63 1.5 76.5 22.6
Richard Dumas PHO F 10 21.5 13 4.1 1.3 2.6 75.5 18.4
Latrell Sprewell GSW G 28 31.4 13.0 3.86 2.21 2.07 74.2 19.0
Oliver Miller PHO C 23 18.7 6.87 4.91 2.22 2.17 74.1 14
Sean Rooks DAL C 21 27.6 12.3 6.24 1.52 1.29 68.1 20.1
Anthony Avent MIL F 33 29.8 11.5 6.18 1.18 1.55 67.9 18.9
Doug Overton WAS G 28 25.0 9.39 2.29 4.25 1 64.9 15.9
Lloyd Daniels SAS FG 30 25.2 12.3 3.03 3.13 1.17 64.8 18.4
*Score = result of my formula, which they're sorted by
*DEC = the standard DEC rotis leagues average (points+boards+assists)
|
| 10.34 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Tue Feb 02 1993 19:19 | 5 |
| Watching the Michael show on TNT last night only confirmed my
belief that the only team even worth paying those ridiculous Boston Garden
prices to see is the Chicago Bulls.
/Don
|
| 10.35 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Quit dancin' on that table! | Tue Feb 02 1993 19:29 | 5 |
| You don't think Laphonzo Ellis is in the top 15 for rookies Mike?
I take it you haven't seen him play? The man will be an all-star.
Tim
|
| 10.36 | Sure coulda fooled me | BSS::JCOTANCH | | Wed Feb 03 1993 13:04 | 4 |
| I saw some clips of that Jack Nicholson look-alike from Sunday's
Laker-Celtic game. Can't believe it wasn't Jack himself...
Joe
|
| 10.37 | yup Ellis should be #6 | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 14:13 | 5 |
| Tim, for some reason he's not there, but he's #6 under my system. I
have the new stats so I'll post a more current, corrected version
later.
Mike
|
| 10.38 | Best 3PT Shooters | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 17:54 | 18 |
| Here are the NBA's best Sharpshooters with a minimum of 100 attempts.
Player Team PO GP 3PTR 3PAT 3P%
Drazen Petrovic NJN G 42 54 109 .495
Chris Mullin GSW F 43 60 130 .462
Dennis Scott ORL G 29 70 153 .458
Mark Price CLE G 40 69 153 .451
Danny Ainge PHO G 38 72 162 .444
Derek Harper DAL G 33 63 149 .423
Terry Porter POR G 40 67 162 .414
Dan Majerle PHO G 39 84 209 .402
Glen Rice MIA G 40 76 190 .4
Dale Ellis SAS G 40 61 156 .391
Jeff Hornacek PHI G 41 49 126 .389
Mookie Blaylock ATL G 42 42 109 .385
Joe Dumars DET G 41 42 111 .378
Mitch Richmond SAC G 42 46 123 .374
Dominique Wilkins ATL F 31 42 113 .372
|
| 10.39 | Top 16 Rookies | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 17:56 | 17 |
| Player Team PO GP Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score DEC
Shaquille O'Neal ORL C 38 38.0 23.5 14.3 4.03 4.74 162. 41.8
Alonzo Mourning CHA C 37 30.8 18.7 9.70 3.89 4.16 124. 32.3
Tom Gugliotta WAS F 41 33.5 14.8 9.83 .463 1.95 113. 25.1
Christian Laettner MIN CF 38 34.2 17.6 8.34 1.18 2.18 102. 27.1
LaPhonso Ellis DEN F 41 34.1 14.3 8.93 1.29 2.15 97.4 24.5
Richard Dumas PHO F 20 26.0 15.7 4.75 .85 2.9 84.7 21.3
Robert Horry HOU F 42 30.5 10.6 5.31 1.29 2.26 80.5 17.2
Clar. WeatherspooPHI F 41 30.2 14.5 6.88 .707 1.73 79.7 22.0
Latrell Sprewell GSW G 38 32.1 13.1 3.58 .763 2.26 76.2 17.4
Walt Williams SAC G 35 23.9 14.6 4.37 .571 1.63 75.6 19.5
Anthony Avent MIL F 42 28.9 11.1 6.17 .786 1.45 66.3 18.0
Oliver Miller PHO C 31 17.2 5.77 4.52 1.45 1.90 66.1 11.7
Doug Overton WAS G 29 24.5 9.21 2.31 .172 .966 63.4 11.7
Todd Day MIL FG 42 25.0 12.8 4.07 .619 1.60 63.0 17.5
Lloyd Daniels SAS FG 38 23.9 11.5 2.82 .447 1 59.5 14.8
Anthony Peeler LAL G 41 22.9 10.8 2.54 .195 1.05 51.4 13.5
|
| 10.40 | Off & Def Windex Glass Cleaners | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 18:01 | 11 |
| Player Team DREB DRBpg Player Team OREB ORBpg
Dennis Rodman DET 391 13.5 Dennis Rodman DET 169 5.83
Shaquille O'Neal ORL 368 9.68 Shaquille O'Neal ORL 175 4.61
Patrick Ewing NYK 384 9.6 Horace Grant CHI 193 4.39
David Robinson SAS 379 9.48 Kevin Willis ATL 169 4.12
Hakeem Olajuwon HOU 393 9.36 Terry Davis DAL 140 3.78
Charles Barkley PHO 350 9.21 Charles Barkley PHO 143 3.76
Karl Malone UTH 371 8.83 Shawn Kemp SEA 142 3.74
Kevin Willis ATL 362 8.83 Dikembe Mutombo DEN 146 3.56
Dikembe Mutombo DEN 348 8.49 Michael Cage SEA 145 3.54
Derrick Coleman NJN 299 7.87 Chris Morris NJN 140 3.5
|
| 10.41 | Hackers R Us | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 18:03 | 20 |
| Player Team PF PFpg
Doug Smith DAL 165 4.58
Tyrone Hill GSW 184 4.28
Stanley Roberts LAC 173 4.22
Danny Manning LAC 177 4.21
Shawn Kemp SEA 160 4.21
Shaquille O'Neal ORL 152 4
Rony Seikaly MIA 144 4
Hakeem Olajuwon HOU 167 3.98
Grant Long MIA 135 3.86
Reggie Williams DEN 150 3.85
Alonzo Mourning CHA 141 3.81
Antoine Carr SAS 118 3.81
Detlef Schrempf IND 163 3.79
Brian Howard DAL 140 3.78
John Salley MIA 135 3.75
Frank Brickowski MIL 151 3.68
Duane Causwell SAC 134 3.62
LaPhonso Ellis DEN 148 3.61
Doug West MIN 137 3.61
|
| 10.42 | Good Hands of Stone | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 18:04 | 20 |
| Player Team TO TOpg
Shaquille O'Neal ORL 153 4.03
Frank Brickowski MIL 147 3.59
Scott Skiles ORL 136 3.58
Alonzo Mourning CHA 127 3.43
Tim Hardaway GSW 147 3.42
Charles Barkley PHO 128 3.37
Isiah Thomas DET 129 3.31
Derrick Coleman NJN 125 3.29
John Stockton UTH 134 3.19
Scottie Pippen CHI 139 3.16
Chuck Person MIN 120 3.16
Kevin Johnson PHO 63 3.15
Drazen Petrovic NJN 132 3.14
Rony Seikaly MIA 113 3.14
Patrick Ewing NYK 125 3.13
Karl Malone UTH 130 3.10
Chris Mullin GSW 133 3.09
Christian Laettner MIN 117 3.08
Lionel Simmons SAC 122 3.05
|
| 10.43 | Point Guards | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Wed Feb 03 1993 19:51 | 31 |
| DEC = points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks
DEC+ = same as above - turnovers
Player Team PO GP DEC DEC+
Tim Hardaway GSW G 43 28.1 24.7
Derek Harper DAL G 33 24.2 22
Steve Smith MIA G 6 24.3 22
Mark Price CLE G 40 23.9 21.2
Kenny Anderson NJN G 44 23.4 20.6
Terry Porter POR G 40 22.8 20.5
Chris Jackson DEN G 40 22.3 20.0
Sedale Threatt LAL G 42 21.5 19.3
Gary Payton SEA G 41 21.0 19.1
Mark Jackson LAC G 42 21.3 18.9
Isiah Thomas DET G 39 21.9 18.6
Eric Murdock MIL G 40 20.8 18.2
Michael Williams MIN G 36 20.8 17.9
John Starks NYK G 38 19.4 17.5
John Stockton UTH G 42 20.6 17.5
Mookie Blaylock ATL G 42 19.5 17.4
Michael Adams WAS G 38 19.8 17.3
Kevin Johnson PHO G 20 20.2 17.1
Scott Skiles ORL G 38 20.2 16.6
Dee Brown BOS G 43 18.5 16.6
Tyrone Bogues CHA G 41 17.2 15.1
Spud Webb SAC G 29 17.6 14.9
Pooh Richardson IND G 37 16.6 13.9
Kenny Smith HOU G 42 15.3 13.5
B.J. Armstrong CHI G 44 14.5 13.5
Johnny Dawkins PHI G 34 11.9 10.3
Avery Johnson SAS G 33 9.94 8.45
|
| 10.44 | | ROYALT::ASHE | It's big, heavy, it's wood... | Wed Feb 03 1993 21:14 | 29 |
| Walt's top 10 for the season so far....
10) Derrick Coleman
9) Scottie Pippen
8) Karl Malone
7) Charles Barkley
6) Tim Hardaway
5) John Stockton
4) Shaquille O'Neal
3) Michael Jordan
2) Hakeem Olajuwon
1) David Robinson
Based upon stats only, using Pts, Rebounds, Steals, Blocks and Assists
as criteria....
rookies:
1) Shaquille O'Neal (#4 Overall)
2) Alonzo Mourning (#20)
3) Tom Gugliotta (#38)
4) Laphonso Ellis (#62)
5) Richard Dumas (#80)
6) Clarence Weatherspoon (#90)
7) Robert Horry (#94)
8) Walt Williams (#97)
9) Latrell Sprewell (#102)
10)Sean Rooks (#120)
followed by Avent, Day, Overton, Miller and Daniels...
|
| 10.45 | doesn't look much different from mine, Walt | FRETZ::HEISER | this present darkness | Thu Feb 04 1993 13:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.46 | Final All-Star Voting - West will win again | FRETZ::HEISER | Goodbye Larry, you were the best! | Fri Feb 05 1993 18:39 | 67 |
| Western Conference
Forwards -- Charles Barkley, Phoenix 858,947;
Karl Malone, Utah 563,627;
Chris Mullin, Golden State 515,779;
Shawn Kemp, Seattle 489,281;
Lionel Simmons, Sacramento 392,991;
Billy Owens, Golden State 276,914;
Buck Williams, Portland 182,806;
Derrick McKey, Seattle 141,883;
Tyrone Corbin, Utah 125,125;
Sean Elliott, San Antonio 111,398.
Guards -- Clyde Drexler, Portland 823,482;
John Stockton, Utah 507,951;
Tim Hardaway, Golden State 481,090;
Mitch Richmond, Sacramento 391,943;
Terry Porter, Portland 328,206;
Sarunas Marciulionis,GoldenSt 255,797;
Kevin Johnson, Phoenix 188,545;
Walt Williams, Sacramento 147,934;
Jeff Malone, Utah 141,262;
Ricky Pierce, Seattle 123,495.
Centers -- David Robinson, San Antonio 803,696;
Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston 422,755;
Dikembe Mutombo, Denver 384,334;
Duane Causwell, Sacramento 239,171;
Kevin Duckworth, Portland 181,226;
Stanley Roberts, L.A.Clippers 92,452;
Mark Eaton, Utah 81,933;
Mark West, Phoenix 70,936;
Vlade Divac, L.A. Lakers 58,019;
Benoit Benjamin, Seattle 45,770.
Eastern Conference
Guards -- Michael Jordan, Chicago 1,035,824;
Isiah Thomas, Detroit 397,747;
Jeff Hornacek, Philadelphia 346,793;
Mark Price, Cleveland 327,964;
Muggsy Bogues, Charlotte 284,838;
Reggie Lewis, Boston 214,372;
Joe Dumars, Detroit 181,253;
Drazen Petrovic, New Jersey 151,239;
Reggie Miller, Indiana 126,515;
Nick Anderson, Orlando 126,067.
Forwards -- Scottie Pippen, Chicago 932,912;
Larry Johnson, Charlotte 658,236;
Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta 380,958;
Horace Grant, Chicago 276,425;
Derrick Coleman, New Jersey 250,233;
Dennis Rodman, Detroit 193,752;
Blue Edwards, Milwaukee 142,288;
Dennis Scott, Orlando 137,277;
Kevin McHale, Boston 131,334;
Kevin Willis, Atlanta 124,017.
Centers -- Shaquille O'Neal, Orlando 826,767;
Patrick Ewing, New York 578,368;
Brad Daugherty, Cleveland 329,639;
Alonzo Mourning, Charlotte 278,532;
Bill Cartwright, Chicago 235,442;
Robert Parish, Boston 187,534;
Moses Malone, Milwaukee 93,733;
Sam Bowie, New Jersey 81,392;
Rony Seikaly, Miami 64,648;
Pervis Ellison, Washington 57,283.
|
| 10.47 | Participants in All-Star weekend | EYRIE::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Sat Feb 06 1993 14:56 | 59 |
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SPORTSTICKER BASKETBALL NOTE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The players who will compete in the Long Distance Shootout,
Slam-Dunk Championship and Legends Game competitions at the
NBA All-Star Weekend on Saturday, February 20 at the
Delta Center in Salt Lake City, Utah:
LONG DISTANCE SHOOTOUT
======================
B.J. Armstrong, Chicago
Dana Barros, Seattle
Craig Hodges, unattached (unrestricted free agent)
Chris Mullin, Golden State
Drazen Petrovic, New Jersey
Mark Price, Cleveland
Dennis Scott, Orlando
Kenny Smith, Houston
SLAM-DUNK CHAMPIONSHIP
======================
David Benoit, Utah
Cedric Ceballos, Phoenix
Sean Elliott, San Antonio
Robert Horry, Houston
Chris Jackson, Denver
Shawn Kemp, Seattle
Harold Miner, Miami
An eighth competitor to be announced
LEGENDS GAME
============
Otis Birdsong
Ron Boone
Zelmo Beatty
Austin Carr
M.L. Carr
Dave Cowens
Connie Hawkins
Wali Jones
Spencer Haywood
Artis Gilmore
George Gervin
Bobby Jones
Calvin Murphy
Clifford Ray
Dan Roundfield
Maurice Lucas
Jamaal Wilkes
Lou Hudson
Bob Love
Coaches: Frank Layden, Joe Mullaney
|
| 10.48 | Hey 'saw, update your network database!!! | EYRIE::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Sat Feb 06 1993 14:57 | 0 |
| 10.49 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Certified Member-Larry Bird Jihad | Sat Feb 06 1993 21:27 | 8 |
| How does the NBA decide who coaches the All-Star game? I always thought
that it was the coach of the team with the best record in each
conference by a certain date. Riley will coach the East but the Bulls
have a better record, though the same number of losses. So what are all
the criteria they use??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.50 | | FDCV06::KING | The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!! | Sun Feb 07 1993 00:25 | 3 |
| New rule... No coach can coach on consecutive years..
REK
|
| 10.51 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | J. Edna Hoover | Mon Feb 08 1993 11:55 | 8 |
| I can't believe Hodges (or whomever) as an unrestricted
free agent is competing in the long range shootout.
I know most folks, cept Walt and I it seems, hate him,
but over the weekend, Isiah Thomas moved into 15th
place on the all-time scoring list.
JD
|
| 10.52 | | CAMONE::WAY | Ok off the expressway, thru the window | Mon Feb 08 1993 12:01 | 11 |
| > -< Hey 'saw, update your network database!!! >-
Send mail to either CAM::SYSTEM or CAM::ZIOMEK. I don't have the
privs or the wherewithall to do it on CAM....
8^)
'Saw
|
| 10.53 | farce | FRETZ::HEISER | Goodbye Larry, you were the best! | Mon Feb 08 1993 17:35 | 5 |
| Hodges is the defending champ and has to compete. I can't believe guys
from the top 10 3pt% list I recently posted aren't in it. Hornacek,
Ainge, and Majerle should be there.
Mike
|
| 10.54 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Goodbye Arthur | Mon Feb 08 1993 17:43 | 3 |
| He doesn't HAVE to compete... Dee Brown wasn't in the slam dunk fest
last year, was he?
|
| 10.55 | | METSNY::francus | Finally a President who does somthing for family values | Mon Feb 08 1993 17:48 | 4 |
| Dee Brown was invited, even though he was injured a large part of last season.
Brown declined the invitation.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.56 | | HEFTY::GUSICJ | Referees whistle while they work.. | Mon Feb 08 1993 17:55 | 10 |
|
From what I've heard and read, the only way Hodges was elegible
to compete is due to the fact that Stern made a special case out of
him to let him compete. The ex-camp does not have to compete. If
you are out of the league, you aren't considered. Stern though
made a special case with Hodges though.
bill..g.
|
| 10.57 | Not necessarily comparable, but ... | METSNY::francus | Bird retires-good riddance | Mon Feb 08 1993 18:06 | 4 |
|
Stern made a similar exception for Magic Johnson last year.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.58 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | take me to Roslyn Cafe | Tue Feb 09 1993 09:50 | 1 |
| Maybe Mike they turned down the invitation?
|
| 10.59 | suggested All-Stars | HBAHBA::HAAS | A Log of Effort | Tue Feb 09 1993 14:34 | 25 |
| Here's Peter Vescey's/Bill Walton's picks to join the All-Stars.
East Starters: Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq, LJ, Isiah
Suggested others:
Mark Price Brad Daugherty
Drazen Petrovic Dennis Rodman
Alonzo Mourning Detlef Schrempf
Patrick Ewing
Alternates:
Dominique Wilkins Larry Nance
Joe Dumars Jeff Hornacek
West Starters: Clyde Drexler, John Stockton, David Robinson, Sir Charles,
Karl Malone.
Suggested Others:
Dan Majerle Mark Jackson
Hakeem Olajuwon Shawn Kemp
Sean Elliott Cliff Robinson
Danny Manning
Alternates:
Ricky Pierce Tim Hardaway
|
| 10.60 | I'd take Hardaway over Jackson any day of the week! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | I want a real adventure! | Tue Feb 09 1993 16:40 | 5 |
| Mark Jackson over Tim Hardaway???????????????????????????????????????
They must be insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NAZZ
|
| 10.61 | at least they picked Thunder Dan | FRETZ::HEISER | the art of listening | Tue Feb 09 1993 17:28 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.62 | And Cliff Robinson | NWD002::JOYNER_GL | Did I do that? | Tue Feb 09 1993 17:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.63 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Bird retires-good riddance | Thu Feb 11 1993 03:23 | 7 |
| The NBA once again played the game of one rule for mere mortals and one
rule for superstars. Miller of Indiana an Michael Jordan had an
altercation. Miller got called for a foul and thrown out of the game.
Jordan was not penalized at all. This would make Bobby Knight proud.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.64 | | FDCV07::KING | The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!! | Thu Feb 11 1993 11:42 | 4 |
| I saw the replay... Jordan should have been tossed too.... The
NBA... Where who you are means more than the rules of the game...
REK
|
| 10.65 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Goodbye Arthur | Thu Feb 11 1993 13:25 | 2 |
| Let's see how much Miller gets fined for the comments he made after the
game too...
|
| 10.66 | | FDCV07::KING | The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!! | Thu Feb 11 1993 13:36 | 3 |
| WHat did Miller say?
REK
|
| 10.67 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | J. Edna Hoover | Thu Feb 11 1993 13:42 | 7 |
| Hey -
Remember a time honoured rule in SPORTS: No cricizing
Mike Air Jordan. I had to be Miller's fault. Jordan
would never do anything wrong. Miller must be a thug.
JD
|
| 10.68 | Officiating S&$%# real bad lately... | RUNAWY::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Thu Feb 11 1993 13:56 | 22 |
| -1, Instant Reply (Broken Record)
I didnt get to see last nights (indiana) matchup so I cant comment
on it. But being a Bulls Fan (IE Jordan Fan) I will say I was very
disapointed with the Officiating during the Bulls Portland game this
past weekend. Jordan was allowed about 3 or 4 no calls in the second
1/2, most of which were quite obvious. I no longer think its the
league's fault, more like Spinless refs who seem intimadated by jordan.
The problem here is the refs are hurting jordan, they are not helping
him the team or the game by giving him no calls or Not tossing him if
he does deserve it. I dont believe it changes the outcome in the long
run (bulls whould have still beet portland) but there hurting the game.
I know all the superstars get this treatment, and nowadays even the
Rookies (if you SHAQ) get it but they have to work on there tactics
a little, maybe someone should call the WWF to help the refs look
less stupid !!!!!!!!
You can put down jordan all you want, bottom line is the refs let him
get away with it so he (and all other superstars "ALL") take advantage
of it. The only way it will get better is if the refs get better.
|
| 10.69 | Box Score!! | SALEM::HARRIS_K | | Thu Feb 11 1993 14:30 | 8 |
| Does anyone happen to have the box score from the Orlando/Sacramento
game on Feb. 1st. I know it is unlikely, but if you have, and wouldn't
mind postingg it for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Kenn
|
| 10.70 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Hoof hearted | Thu Feb 11 1993 15:23 | 5 |
| Last nights actions wcould be the best thing that happens to the NBA.
The two tiered system is now obvious to everyone, and hopefully the NBA
will feel forced to address the issue.
|
| 10.71 | inall reality, no way Bruce - won't happen :*( | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Feb 11 1993 15:36 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.72 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Goodbye Arthur | Thu Feb 11 1993 16:04 | 24 |
| Miller basically said Jordan should have been thrown out, they didn't
because he's a star and he didn't care if he got fined for saying it
because he was tired of it...
ORLANDO (119)
Bowie 8-12 2-2 18, Tolbert 3-6 10-13 16, O'Neal 5-13 8-15 18,
Skiles 5-12 5-5 16, Anderson 9-15 11-14 31, Kerr 0-2 0-0 0, Turner
0-2 0-0 0, Royal 4-4 3-6 11, Scott 2-3 0-0 5, Catledge 1-2 2-2 4.
Totals
37-71 41-57 119.
SACRAMENTO (115)
Simmons 11-18 1-2 23, Bonner 2-11 3-6 7, Tisdale 11-19 3-4
25, Richmond 9-18 7-8 28, Webb 6-11 0-0 13, Higgins 5-9 1-1 11, Brown
1-2 2-2 4, Chilcutt 1-2 0-0 2, Rambis 1-2 0-2 2, Les 0-0 0-0 0. Totals
47-92 17-25 115.
Orlando 32 21 28 38--119
Sacramento 24 33 32 26--115
Three-point goals--Richmond 3, Anderson 2, Skiles, Webb. Fouled
out--O'Neal, Royal, Simmons, Bonner, Tisdale. Total fouls-- Orlando
27, Sacramento 37. Rebounds-- Orlando 57 (Anderson 14), Sacramento
46 (Tisdale 11). Assists--Orlando 25 (Skiles 15), Sacramento 32 (Webb
11). Technicals-- Skiles, Tolbert, Simmons. A--17,317.
|
| 10.73 | atrocious | HBAHBA::HAAS | A Log of Effort | Thu Feb 11 1993 18:46 | 12 |
| The funniest part of all this was the inteview with Jordan wherein he
said that there is to 2-tier, star-based, system and everyone gets the
same calls and the rules are applied evenly. Yeah, right!
Miller said the the ref make a bad call because if they threw Jordan out,
people would leave the game, not buy all the goodies and every one would
lose money.
The reply shows Jordan being the one that initiated contact. Probably
some fundemental move that he learned from Dean...
TTom
|
| 10.74 | it's not like you guys to complain about referees | FRETZ::HEISER | Romans 10:9 | Thu Feb 11 1993 18:56 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.75 | odds of making it to the NBA | FRETZ::HEISER | Romans 10:9 | Thu Feb 11 1993 20:38 | 41 |
| Article 7227 of clari.sports.basketball:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Subject: Study: No easy shot for college starters in NBA
Date: 9 Feb 93 17:38:00 GMT
AMHERST, Mass. (UPI) -- They may be big in college, but a new study
shows that even the nation's top college basketball players don't have a
good shot at making it to the National Basketball Association.
The study by the University of Massachusetts at Amherst found that
for every Shaquille O'Neal or Christian Laettner who signed NBA
contracts out of college, there are more players like Jeff Zliphant of
Indiana or Gilad Katz of Connecticut who don't make it to the pros.
In fact, only 37.7 of the senior starters for the nation's top 10
college teams sign NBA contracts, said Anton Brown, one of the study's
authors.
Brown is one of the college players who didn't turn pro. A former
point guard for the UMass team that made the Sweet 16 in last spring's
NCAA Tournament, Brown helped researchers develop a formula to determine
which players would be successful in the NBA.
The formula accurately predicted the success or failure of 53 of 61
senior starters from 1989, 1990 and 1991.
``It's remarkable that the equation was off in only eight of the 61
players studied,'' said professor Cleve Willis, chairman of the
department of resource economics at UMass.
Willis said the players who found success in the NBA averaged six
more points a game in college than those who did not move up to the NBA.
In addition, they were 1 inch taller and 4 pounds heavier on average,
and shot 2 percent better from the free throw line.
Willis said the three main factors in determining a player's
potential with the NBA are points per game, assists per game, and
height.
``This study is another indication of how difficult it is to make it
to the pros. Even if a player is good enough to be a starter on a top 10
college team, the odds are still nearly 2 to 1 against the player making
it to the NBA,'' Willis said.
Brown, who is now pursuing a graduate degree in education
administration at UMass, said he hopes the study will help young people
who dream of playing in the NBA.
``Kids shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket and go to college
just to play basketball,'' Brown said. ``They should be prepared for
reality and get their college degree.''
|
| 10.76 | | PLUGH::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Thu Feb 11 1993 21:54 | 51 |
| ORLANDO (119) AT SACRAMENTO (115)
ORLANDO
REBOUNDS
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA OFF-DEF-TOT AST PF ST TO PTS
====== === === ======= ======= =========== === == == == ===
BOWIE F 33 8-12 2-2 0 2 2 6 2 0 0 18
TOLBERT F 37 3-6 10-13 1 3 4 0 2 0 3 16
ONEAL C 36 5-13 8-15 2 4 6 1 6 0 2 18
SKILES G 42 5-12 5-5 0 4 4 15 3 2 5 16
ANDERSON G 40 9-15 11-14 1 13 14 0 4 0 1 31
KERR 7 0-2 0-0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0
TURNER 7 0-2 0-0 1 2 3 0 2 0 0 0
ROYAL 21 4-4 3-6 1 2 3 1 6 0 0 11
SCOTT 13 2-3 0-0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 5
CATLEDGE 4 1-2 2-2 2 0 2 0 1 0 0 4
TOTALS 240 37-71 41-57 8 31 39 25 27 3 12 119
(.521) (.719) TEAM REBS: 18
SACRAMENTO
REBOUNDS
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA OFF-DEF-TOT AST PF ST TO PTS
====== === === ======= ======= =========== === == == == ===
SIMMONS F 36 11-18 1-2 1 4 5 7 6 1 5 23
BONNER F 35 2-11 3-6 6 2 8 2 6 0 1 7
TISDALE C 29 11-19 3-4 1 10 11 1 6 0 1 25
RICHMOND G 46 9-18 7-8 0 3 3 4 4 1 3 28
WEBB G 42 6-11 0-0 1 0 1 11 4 0 0 13
HIGGINS 24 5-9 1-1 3 3 6 3 5 0 0 11
BROWN 10 1-2 2-2 0 1 1 3 1 0 0 4
CHILCUTT 7 1-2 0-0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 2
RAMBIS 10 1-2 0-2 0 2 2 1 4 0 2 2
LES 1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 240 47-92 17-25 12 26 38 32 37 2 12 115
(.511) (.680) TEAM REBS: 8
ORLANDO 32 21 28 38 - 119
SACRAMENTO 24 33 32 26 - 115
BLOCKED SHOTS: ORLANDO - ONEAL 4, BOWIE, ANDERSON,
ROYAL. SACRAMENTO - TISDALE 2, BONNER, RICHMOND.
3-PT. FIELD GOALS: ORLANDO 4-10 (.400), BOWIE 0-1, SKILES 1-4,
ANDERSON 2-4, SCOTT 1-1. SACRAMENTO 4-9 (.444), RICHMOND 3-5,
WEBB 1-3, HIGGINS 0-1.
TECHNICALS: ORLANDO - SKILES, TOLBERT. SACRAMENTO - SIMMONS.
OFFICIALS: BAVETTA, MAUER, MAYFIELD.
A - 17,317.
|
| 10.77 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Fri Feb 12 1993 12:55 | 13 |
|
Will someone explain to me what the heck is going on with the on
again off again Boston Garden. I find it absolutely astonishing that
the old one is being torn down by the 1995 season and there is no plans
to build a new one. The Caltics and/or Bruins leaving would server the
damn politicians right! I would hate to see the Celtics and/or Bruins
leave because of something like this; they have a fan base, they make money,
and there is all that tradition. In my book tradition is not necessarily
enough to keep a team from moving, but when all the factors are so
positive it is a real shame that a fiasco over the B Garden could lead
to that.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.79 | Even from this bunch I don't understand it... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 12 1993 13:32 | 19 |
|
I'm surprised at what happened with the New Boston Garden Bill even
considering the track record of the Massachusetts legislature. With an
issue that is so public and so volatile I wouldn't expect even the MA
government to take such an extremely unpopular action as to tack on
give-backs to the bill and force the death of the deal. Unlike many
other issues that get buried and become lost on the public, this is one
that a politician's opponent can tangibly point to and gain immediate
results, imo. Usually it's even the corrupt and spineless politician's
credo to kowtow to public opinion when it's coming down on his head.
What should be made clear to every Massachusetts resident is the fact
that relative to stadium deals cut in many other cities (some of which
are admittedly excessive), the public investment in this project is
very minimal. The next time around it won't be so; Boston will be
lucky to get off with the usual teams-held-hostage ransom...
glenn
|
| 10.80 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | St. Louis Celtics? | Fri Feb 12 1993 14:51 | 9 |
| 10.81 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | St. Louis Celtics? | Fri Feb 12 1993 15:39 | 4 |
| Not one word about Parish? Geez, it *almost* makes me miss
SnideAir and 00:00.00.
/Don
|
| 10.82 | happy now slasher? | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Fri Feb 12 1993 15:42 | 5 |
| All the Parrish incident shows is how far behind the times the guy is.
I mean getting busted for marijuana?? sheesh you would have thunk he could
do better than that.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.83 | | SA1794::GUSICJ | Referees whistle while they work.. | Fri Feb 12 1993 15:55 | 34 |
|
> Not one word about Parish? Geez, it *almost* makes me miss
> SnideAir and 00:00.00.
Word out today claims that he didn't inhale. Parade in June!
re: Jordan/Miller/Refs
Guys, this is just another example of what I've been tellin ya all
along. The stars in the NBA are bigger than the game and to call a
legit game on them, would mean biting the hand that feeds you.
The NBA refs are not necessarily bad officials, but are simply
the end result of marketing gone bad. The NBA needs fans to pay all
the bills. Big ticket draws like Jordan help fill the coffers of the
owners and the TV folks. Honestly though, who would want to see Jordan
or any other mega-star sit the bench in the first quarter with 3 fouls?
If that were the case, the NBA would dwindle down to nothing. So in
turn, the refs have to back off from the stars, give them special
treatment so that the food chain remains intact. It is not totally
their fault. The NBA WANTS the games called a certain way, and I'm
sure the ref's follow those 'suggestions.'
This is again why I believe the NCAA is still the best game in
town. No one player is bigger than the game and no player or coach
is above getting tossed or T'd. The ref's have much more control and
power in the NCAA game than anywhere else. And for my money, that
is why March Madness is the exciting event it is. I feel the game
is much more evenly called at the NCAA level than the pros.
bill..g.
|
| 10.84 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | St. Louis Celtics? | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:10 | 7 |
| Hey Craze, who's Parrish?
BillG, the NCAA is fixed worse than 'rasslin. How else do you
explain that rich kid, sissy, elite school Duke winning back to
back titles?
/Don
|
| 10.86 | NO AIR TONITE | LUDWIG::GARRY | DALLAS COWBOYS ARE BACK | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:16 | 8 |
|
re -2
Jordan did get suspended for tonites game against the Knicks and was
fined 10,000...... think thats a fair shake.
Tom
|
| 10.88 | something I'd expect out of Red... | CNTROL::CHILDS | Not that there's a problem with that: | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:32 | 5 |
|
Riley must have whined long and hard to get Jordan suspended from tonight's
affair. If not him than definately JD and TCM.....
;^)
|
| 10.89 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | The Giants have been saved.... | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:32 | 6 |
|
Parish isn't behind the times, he just knows the in's and out's of the
NBA drug policy. The NBA drug policy only has Cocaine and Heroin listed. So he
can smoke dope all he wants and the NBA can't suspend him.
/Ron
|
| 10.90 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Not that there's a problem with that: | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:36 | 6 |
|
or is the NBA just ahead of the times and realizes the stuff should be
legalized. Think of all the waste revenue CLinton could make if he had
the cajones do what is right..........
mike
|
| 10.91 | Hardly the conspiracy I was hearing yesterday... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:40 | 16 |
|
I caught the tapes of this Jordan/Miller affair and I've got to say
that the facts of what happened make me understand why the officials
acted in the way did. Plain and simple, they didn't see most of what
went on before the fight. Jordan started with the rough stuff and
soon both he and Miller were going at it on both ends of the court
without any fouls called either way. Finally Miller got fed up and
took off down the court with a bead on Jordan and blatantly pushed
him from behind. At that point you know there's going to be a fight
and Miller appears to be the clear instigator with his cheap shot
from behind. Go to the films and you've got a completely different
view of what happened and with the suspension that's what the league
has fairly concluded...
glenn
|
| 10.92 | not complaining in these parts-win is not a sure thing | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:45 | 10 |
|
re: .88
You beat me to it. Actually Knicks may very well still lose. This
is the Bulls first game back from a 9 game road trip. Also, teams
often lift the level of their game when the main man is out. Should
be an interesting game. If Knicks manage to win they would be 1 game
ahead of the Bulls in the loss column.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.93 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Like giving a tictac to a whale... | Fri Feb 12 1993 16:58 | 12 |
| Must be Larry Parrish, ex-RedSox player /Don...
Parish? I figured it was a personal thing and we couldn't talk about
a Celt who may have his number up in the rafters' personal life because
it would me we would think less of them as a player. (smiley goes here
if I did smileys).
Think anything will come of it? I doubt it. He'll get to do community
service and the NBA won't do squat.
Jordan got fined and suspended? What did Miller get?
|
| 10.94 | Chip_GSH_Bach | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Fri Feb 12 1993 17:06 | 18 |
| RE: .91
I was a little late into this discussion. I'm glad you wrote that
note, I watched the game (with my dad, in Chicago) and I can't believe
that they, after watching the tape, fined and suspended Jordan.
Miller was gonna topple him, Jordan ducked away, and Miller took
two steps toward Jordan to get in his lick.
Jordan ran after him, and got in his face. Miller headlocked the guy,
then Jordan took a swaaap at his face...
I'll bet most of the Indiana crowd woulda been teed off had Jordan been
tossed, as that is what they paid to see.
These guys sound like a Celtics game review by Johnny Most...
;-)
|
| 10.95 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Feb 12 1993 17:30 | 2 |
| OK, who slipped something into TCM's coffee and made him say something
nice about the Celts and Bruins?
|
| 10.96 | Jordan rules revisited | CADSYS::CAVE | | Fri Feb 12 1993 17:52 | 51 |
| .re 91, .re 94
You have got to be kidding me!! I didn't see the whole game
but one of the news stations showed the events leading up to the
final confrontation. This is what they showed.
Miller inadvertently tripped JOrdan (their legs tangled). THis upset
Jordan since he thought is was on purpose (it was clearly incidental).
One the next trip down the court Jordan elbowed Miller.
Back on the other side of the court, Miller pushed Jordan and Jordan
responded with a fore-arm to the neck/head (THis IMO was the first aggresive
move).
THe next time down Jordan was pushed from behind by Miller and Jordan
took off after him (this is what everyone has seen).
It should also be noted that the two were talked it up from the first
altercation.
> Miller was gonna topple him, Jordan ducked away, and Miller took
> two steps toward Jordan to get in his lick.
Miller did pursue Jordan but it was a slight push.
> Jordan ran after him, and got in his face. Miller headlocked the guy,
> then Jordan took a swaaap at his face...
I also missed the headlock.
Jordan escalated this incident at every juncture including the
final major confrontation where he charged Miller, headbutted him (I don't
know if any contact was really made), and then face raked him (causing a
scratch).
Jordan was almost 100% as fault and deserved the suspension.
Miller should get nothing since he was already virtual suspended.
Alan
|
| 10.97 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 12 1993 17:58 | 9 |
|
I admitted that Jordan started the rough stuff and deserved the
suspension! What I said was that it was obvious that the refs saw
nothing until Miller raced down the court and shoved Jordan from
behind, because until that time play was never stopped for a foul call
or otherwise...
glenn
|
| 10.98 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Romans 10:9 | Fri Feb 12 1993 18:23 | 11 |
| Glad to see the NBA front office put into a position where they had to
match what they did to Sir Charles. The refs are still biased though.
On last Sunday's game vs. Orlando, they gave Charles a gift. In the
4th quarter, he accidentally grabbed the rim during a offensive rebound,
but they called the T on Dumas since Charles already had one. Dumas wasn't
within 10 feet of the basket!
Maybe Shaq should've been whistled for a T too when he hung on the rim.
Mike
|
| 10.99 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Like giving a tictac to a whale... | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:02 | 7 |
| Until I hear what Miller got, I'm holding off on how severe or how
justified the Jordan suspension was. Both should get something.
Miller "tripping" Jordan was incidental. They both talked trash.
Miller came up to Jordan and mouthed off. They both went at it. They
both threw a punch. I'd say Miller instigated it, they both should
have been tossed and/or suspended.
|
| 10.100 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:15 | 4 |
| Walt, check back a few. I'm pretty sure Miller was tossed on the spot
and then fined. The flap came about because Jordan apparently got away
scot free. Since then we've learned that Mike was suspended for a game
and fined.
|
| 10.101 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Like giving a tictac to a whale... | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:25 | 7 |
| I saw that this is what we know:
Miller tosssed from game, suspended/fined? <<<<<- -----
Jordan stayed in game, suspended 1 game, fined $10k
I can't believe they didn't suspend or fine Miller at all. There's got
to be more to it than that.
|
| 10.102 | Clinton + joke = 1 | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Quit dancin' on that table! | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:29 | 14 |
| re .83
Talking about refs letting the superstars get away with fouls, and
NCAA doesn't. You may be right, but would these guys be superstars if
they did get called for all the fouls that occur? IMO, they wouldn't
be glorified like they are.
That goes for any game at about any level.....
I haven't heard about Parrish. What happened? Did he get arrested
for possesion with intent to sell, or did they find it in his urine or
what?
Tim
|
| 10.103 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:30 | 3 |
| I don't think they'll suspend Miller since they tossed him. They
suspended Jordan because he wasn't tossed in the first place. In
essence, both players missed a game and were fined.
|
| 10.104 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:32 | 4 |
| on Parish: From what I heard on the radio this morning, some canine
cops sniffed out a couple of ounces of pot in Parish's luggage in the
SF airport. A search warrant was obtained for Parish's residence and
they found 5 more ounces.
|
| 10.105 | | CADSYS::CAVE | | Fri Feb 12 1993 19:36 | 52 |
| Glenn, I misinterpretted your note. You do bring up a good point about
the incident growing due to the ref's failure to notice/call anything.
The final scene (Jordan getting pushed and going nuts) was misleading
since the tension was building during several trips down the floor.
.re Walt
I can't under stand why you think Miller instigated the fight.
I think I'm being neutral evaluating the situation and if you break it down
into stages, Jordan really accelerated the confrontation at every level.
Miller accidentally Trips Jordan, Jordan counters with an elbow (on the
next trip down the floor). Jordan starts the physical play.
Miller pushes/bumps Jordan while under the boards. Jordan aggressively
fore-arms Miller in the neck/head (IMO - This was the real start of the
problem)
Miller pursues Jordan and pushes him under the basket, Jordan goes nuts
charges Miller (complete with Headbutt), and face rakes him. Miller
throws half hearted punch while being separated.
Is Miller the instigator for accidentally tripping Jordan, Is he the
instigator because he bumps/pushes Jordan after getting an elbow. Is he
the instigator because he pursue/pushes Jordan after getting a fore-arm
to the head. Is he the instigator because he protects himself from
a charging player who headbutts and face-rakes him.
Miller is somewhat to blame (I'm sure he was trash talking up a storm)
but this was Jordan's fault.
Like I said before, Miller already received his suspension when he
was thrown out of the game and therefore has already been punished.
The reason this bothers me so much is that the double standard has never
been so obvious. I really enjoy the NBA and don't want to think its
the second coming of the WWF. The bias for superstars is getting more
blatant every year.
Alan
|
| 10.106 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Like giving a tictac to a whale... | Fri Feb 12 1993 20:07 | 5 |
| I didn't see the elbow, I just saw him talkin it up after he made the
basket. He went out of his way to do it, probably because of the
elbow. Not saying it didn't happen, just didn't see it. I thought
Miller provoked it by talking too much and then Jordan went after him.
|
| 10.107 | | FDCV06::KING | The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!! | Sat Feb 13 1993 00:51 | 12 |
| Mac, get a clue...
Parish was in Boston when the dog (San Fran) found the MJ...
The package was a Fed Ex to his home in Weston... The package was
sent cross-country to Boston and the Feds got involved. The Feds
checked out Parish's houst and found 2 ounces of MJ. The Fed Ex pak
had 5 ounces...
I expect that Graves ( his roomate) knows more about this than he
does....
REK
|
| 10.108 | Jerry Tarkanian: Class Personified | RHETT::KNORR | Atlantic10 > BigEast | Sun Feb 14 1993 01:32 | 16 |
| Has anybody seen Jerry Tarkanian lately?! My guess is he's in Vegas
hob-nobbing with his Mafia friends and moaning to everybody 'bout what
a raw deal the UNLV prez (Maxwell) gave him, but is it possible for
anybody to look at him without cracking up laughing?!
Talk about a record speaking for itself. Tarkanian (who a reliable
source informs me *NEVER*, I repeat, **NEVER**, had a player graduate
at Vegas) moans 'bout not having a point guard, not having this, not
having that. Now John Lucas, a Maryland Main with no head coaching
experience, has 'em in contention for a Title.
Good work Jerry! What a coach!!! What a guy!!!! [RALPH]
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.109 | But that's probably it... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon Feb 15 1993 12:30 | 9 |
|
> Talk about a record speaking for itself. Tarkanian (who a reliable
> source informs me *NEVER*, I repeat, **NEVER**, had a player graduate
> at Vegas)
You forgot about his son, Chris. Tark Jr. certainly did graduate...
glenn
|
| 10.110 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Feb 15 1993 12:42 | 20 |
| 10.111 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Feb 15 1993 13:43 | 8 |
| A couple of the Trailblazers have requested the NBA Players Association
to look into their suspension over being suspected of being involved in
that incident in Utah.
The charges have been dropped, noone knows for sure what actually
happened, so why did the Trailblazers fine and suspend a couple of
their players? If they wanted to take action, why did they only do it
against a couple of rookie/young players?
|
| 10.112 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Green Acres is the place to be.... | Mon Feb 15 1993 13:52 | 12 |
| Accrock:
Tark has as many champeenship rings as the Snuffster.
Re Jordan
The NBA only suspended him to save face, given the hue and cry of
the blatent double-standard. Only reinforces the standard. They
were forced to do something. Jordan didn't even get called for
a foul in the incident.
JD
|
| 10.113 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Feb 15 1993 13:58 | 2 |
| This is the second time Jordan has been suspended. I guess the NBA has
to do alot of face saving these days...
|
| 10.114 | JD stoops to a new low, which is pretty dog-gone low. | RHETT::KNORR | Atlantic10 > BigEast | Mon Feb 15 1993 14:09 | 19 |
| Your Tark == Dean Thypocritial analogy almost made me BARF up my
morning Krispy Creme, JD. From someone who's waxed eloquent on the
subject of the demise of the student athlete don't you feel just a tad
funny comparing a man who's players have graduated at a +96% clip
versus a man who sources indicate has graduated 0%? (I'll admit my
inside information is somewhat dated. It is possible that Tark, Jr.
did indeed graduate. My information was circa 1990.)
Course you're not alone in your Thypocrisy. The Constitution had a
lengthy Dean article in Sunday's paper, the substance being whether or
not "The System" is good, bad, or indifferent. Dean's emphasis on
academics was reduced to a single bullet item, which was actually more
than I expected. If I had a nickle for every article I've read in the
same newspaper (the media-in-general can be substituted here) moaning
about the demise of academics in big-time college sports, wail, I
wouldn't be paying for my morning donut for quite awhile.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.115 | | HEFTY::GUSICJ | Referees whistle while they work.. | Mon Feb 15 1993 15:41 | 51 |
|
re: .85
> I was behind you 100% up until this part, Goose. You're pro-ref
bias is painfully obvious here. The refs are why March Madness is
so exciting? If one were to compose a list of why March Madness is
so great, at the top of the list would probably be the one game and
you're out finality of it or maybe the enthusiasm of the college
players and crowd. The refereeing would have to rank somewhere far
after those two things.
> it
I think you misunderstood a little of what I said.
First, although I don't like the NBA game, I cannot blame the NBA ref's
for the condition of the Pro game. They are not bad officials, but
are rather put into a place between a rock and a hard place. If they
call the game by the real rules, they run the risk of biting the hand
that feeds them.
So, although I don't really like the Pro game and the way it is
officiated, I still have a lot of respect for a bunch of guys that
basically have their hands tied, and for not much money at that.
Secondly, the reason why the NCAA game is so much more exciting
is due to a number of reasons, one of which is the officiating. I
believe it is because the refs call a closer game to the rulebook
that many find the college game more exciting. It is not the only
reason why March Madness is the way it is. But just think that if
the refs worked the NCAA just like the NBA, you'd have no dark horses
anywere near the finals. Because the game is called more evenly,
it gives the underdog a real fighting chance. Because the superstar
in college does not get the same treatment or kid gloves as they
do in the NBA makes for a better game in the NCAA. Just think of
how many times the big name star ends up with 3 fouls in the first
half and has to sit. Changes the game doesn't it? Makes it a little
more interesting I'd say.
March Madness is what it is because of school spirit, the fans,
and the players. But it is also more interesting than the pros because
the underdog has a real legit shot because the game is/will be called
on a closer to the rulebook guideline.
I never meant to say the the referees were solely responsible for
the NCAA tourney and its popularity. I just see them there as making
the game as fair as possible no matter if it is Duke, or P-Dunk state.
bill..g.
|
| 10.116 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Green Acres is the place to be.... | Mon Feb 15 1993 16:56 | 9 |
| Crock -
You've repeatedly said that Dean should be commended for molding
his players into NBA talent. Cuz that's what they are there for.
Tark did the same.
Haw!
JD
|
| 10.117 | There it is, the strikeout! | RHETT::KNORR | Atlantic10 > BigEast | Mon Feb 15 1993 17:16 | 7 |
| Sorry JD, I missed the part about the mutual exclusion between academic
performance (i.e. graduating) and NBA preparation.
Forgive me,
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.118 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Green Acres is the place to be.... | Mon Feb 15 1993 18:52 | 24 |
| See Chris -
Its hard to follow yer logic - but only cuz you got that Snuffy
dearth of titles albatross around yer neck.
You strut yer chest about the great recruiting, but den caint
admit dat the Snuffster is a chokester - so you den bring up
da tired molder of NBA talent (great example was your tirade
about Walt "Mr. Mistake" Williams - HAW!)
But of course, when called on that (which you have been - before
you yellow-bellied out of da conference, you butt all red and
sore from being spanked by BobHunt, Cap and MrT), you go back
to recruiting.
Hey, I've said in da past Dean has a_excellent grad record.
But the recruiting, the NBA #1 picks, and that measely gift
from Mr. Brown simply cuz the Deanster to look like a_AMC
Gremlin when compared to the likes of BobKnight.
Haw Haw
JD
|
| 10.119 | Watch it JD, AMC might sue you for Slander!!! | CNTROL::CHILDS | Not that there's a problem with that: | Mon Feb 15 1993 18:55 | 0 |
| 10.120 | and I thought we were going to keep the Smith stuff in teh ACC topic | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Feb 15 1993 19:01 | 4 |
| 10.121 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Homer,Plato,Voltaire,BobKnight | Mon Feb 15 1993 19:03 | 9 |
| Mac -
there were many Mr. Mistakes.
Johnson was the Pro Pick Mistake. Williams was the guy who threw
away millions cuz he didnt' go to the North Carolina Home for
Perpetual Gagging at Chapel Hill.
JD
|
| 10.122 | Setting the record straight (again). | RHETT::KNORR | Atlantic10 > BigEast | Mon Feb 15 1993 19:28 | 26 |
| re: mistakes
Just to clarify the record:
A) I most certainly did not get "spanked" out of this conference by
MrT, BobHunt, or Cap.
B) Quoting me as saying "LJ was a mistake." is a great example of
the importance of context. LJ was a mistake only in comparison
to Mutombo was my argument. (The verdict is still out on this
one; I'll grant that LJ has_a early lead.) If you go back to
the archived SPORTS you'll discover I've been on the LJ bandwagon
for a very long time.
C) Just cause Walt is off to a great start in the pros doesn't mean
he still didn't make a mistake by going to Maryland. The Twerps
suffered through probations, many L's, and lots of lost TV
exposure while he was there. If he'd gone to Carolina he very well
coulda been a Collegiate PoY and the #1 player drafted.
D) I don't remember ...
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.123 | | CAMONE::WAY | J. Edgar -- G-man wearin' a G-string | Mon Feb 15 1993 20:19 | 13 |
| > A) I most certainly did not get "spanked" out of this conference by
> MrT, BobHunt, or Cap.
Well, you might not have gotten spanked out, but you certainly did
get spanked.
We all figured you left because of a_innocnet college prank gone amok...
8^)
|
| 10.124 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Not that there's a problem with that: | Tue Feb 16 1993 10:15 | 10 |
| >> C) Just cause Walt is off to a great start in the pros doesn't mean
>> he still didn't make a mistake by going to Maryland. The Twerps
>> suffered through probations, many L's, and lots of lost TV
>> exposure while he was there. If he'd gone to Carolina he very well
>> coulda been a Collegiate PoY and the #1 player drafted.
That may indeed be true Chris but the kicker for me is that he still would
been 0-fer in NCAA Titles....Besides the system would have shackled him and
would have had to wait his turn behind all those other AA's....
|
| 10.125 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | No new contributions | Tue Feb 16 1993 14:01 | 12 |
| > > A) I most certainly did not get "spanked" out of this conference by
> > MrT, BobHunt, or Cap.
> Well, you might not have gotten spanked out, but you certainly did
> get spanked.
That's true, 'saw. Chris alwats waits for Dean to do his annual choke
before he gets spanked out. Dean is actually responsible for spanking
Chris out.
Brews
|
| 10.126 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | HOMER,PLATO,VOLTAIRE,bobknight | Tue Feb 16 1993 14:50 | 4 |
| Brews, that spanking administered by Dean to ACC could probably
constitute "tough love".
/Don
|
| 10.127 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | HOMER,PLATO,VOLTAIRE,bobknight | Wed Feb 17 1993 16:17 | 7 |
| I heard a blurb on WEEI this morning coming in that Pat Riley
is going to start Patrick Ewing at center in the Some Star game.
I thought the fans voted Shaq as the starting center? Can the coach
bench a starter that the fans voted for? Has this ever been done
before? Anybody know the details?
/Don
|
| 10.128 | From what I heard | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Yankees return to the Promised Land | Wed Feb 17 1993 16:59 | 7 |
|
I believe the report was he said Patrick shouldf be starting
over Shaq. Cuz Patrick is unselfish and lets 8 or 9 players get some of
the spotlight for the good of the team(winning).
Chappy
|
| 10.129 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | HOMER,PLATO,VOLTAIRE,bobknight | Wed Feb 17 1993 17:54 | 4 |
| Did Riley complain the year The Mailman was snubbed by the fans
for a certain and unworthy Laker forward?
/Don
|
| 10.130 | | FDCV07::KING | The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!! | Wed Feb 17 1993 18:09 | 5 |
| As a matter of fact he did \Slasher... He was quoted as saying that
he thought Green was having a good year but Malone was the best PF
in the west..
REK
|
| 10.131 | Doc says "hi", or is that "high"? | ROYALT::ASHE | Like giving a tictac to a whale... | Thu Feb 18 1993 13:13 | 11 |
| % From: George Brooks
% Message-Id: <9302181350.AA19951@hpwarp.wal.hp.com>
% Subject: Has someone already got this p-name ?
% To: royalt::ashe (Walt Ashe)
% Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 8:50:53 EST
% Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
Tell the Jihad I said hi ...
--
"Hey Robert ! Did you inhale ?"
George Brooks - HP Clinical Information Systems
|
| 10.132 | Standings at the All-Star Break | FRETZ::HEISER | | Tue Feb 23 1993 14:10 | 36 |
| Western Conference
Pacific Division
Phoenix 38 10 .792 --
Seattle 33 17 .660 6
Portland 31 16 .660 6 1/2
LA Lakers 26 23 .531 12 1/2
LA Clippers 26 25 .510 13 1/2
Golden State 23 30 .434 17 1/2
Sacramento 17 34 .333 22 1/2
Midwest Division
W L Pct. GB
San Antonio 34 15 .694 --
Utah 33 18 .647 2
Houston 30 21 .588 5
Denver 20 30 .400 14 1/2
Minnesota 12 35 .255 21
Dallas 4 45 .082 30
Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division
W L Pct. GB
New York 34 16 .680 --
New Jersey 30 21 .588 4 1/2
Boston 26 24 .520 8
Orlando 24 23 .511 8 1/2
Miami 18 31 .367 15 1/2
Philadelphia 18 31 .367 15 1/2
Washington 15 36 .294 19 1/2
Central Division
Chicago 35 17 .673 --
Cleveland 34 19 .642 1 1/2
Charlotte 26 23 .531 7 1/2
Atlanta 24 27 .471 10 1/2
Indiana 23 28 .451 11 1/2
Detroit 21 29 .420 13
Milwaukee 20 31 .392 14 1/2
|
| 10.133 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Feb 23 1993 14:22 | 1 |
| So who won the MVP for the All Star game?
|
| 10.134 | | FDCV07::KING | The Jessinator, Not just a child!!!!! | Tue Feb 23 1993 15:05 | 3 |
| Malone and Stockton... CO-MVPs...
REK
|
| 10.135 | Christian Laettner: NBA Baby O' the Year | HBAHBA::HAAS | A Log of Effort | Thu Feb 25 1993 18:48 | 19 |
| I've been in and outta this here ::SPORTS the lasted couple of weeks so
if'n this been covered, so be it.
Christian Laettner is continuing his march to fast become the nexted big
bunghole in the NBA. The latest episode had him suspended for the Sonics
game, won by Seattle 89-77, for missing a mandatory practice.
What he was doing was receiving a_award right here in Charlotte honoring
him for his college efforts. Laettner claims that all he was doing was
listening to his advisers who told him to go. I guess when it comes to
the NBA you oughta listen to the money people more than the coach.
In any case, Lowe suspended him for the game which cost him $26K or so
for the game plus an undisclosed fine. Now, he's crying cause he thinks
the T'wolves are treating him like he was in high school or college. His
advisers said that it would never happen again, a commitment that
Laettner seems unwilling at this time to make.
TTom
|
| 10.136 | | DECWET::METZGER | Zeros and Ones.... | Thu Feb 25 1993 19:34 | 12 |
|
I read a quote from one of the T'Wolves players the other day concerning laetner.
"Someday he might be as good as he thinks he is."
That just about sums up Chrissy-poo at this stage in his career.
BTW - He didn't miss the Sonic game last night. It must have been the previous
game. Last night he scored 28 pts.
Metz
|
| 10.137 | done been served | HBAHBA::HAAS | A Log of Effort | Thu Feb 25 1993 19:47 | 8 |
| Yeah, I reread the article and evidently Laettner already served his
time.
I think the best indicator of what a_idiot he is was when Chuck Person
complained about him being selfish! Coming from the Rifleman, that says a
lot.
TTom
|
| 10.138 | Bottom line, TTom: Laettner == T'Wolves. | RHETT::KNORR | Dean Smith: 1992-93 CoY | Thu Feb 25 1993 21:19 | 0 |
| 10.139 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I...feel like... somebody's watchin' me | Fri Feb 26 1993 13:13 | 6 |
| Anyone hear this rumor which got shot down I guess.
Kendall Gill to the Clippers
Loy Vaught and Randy Wood to Dallas
Derek Harper to Charlotte?
|
| 10.140 | Fine, we didn't want him anyway! | NWD002::JOYNER_GL | Did I do that? | Fri Feb 26 1993 17:13 | 4 |
| Terry Porter was offered for Kendall Gill straight up. Word is that
Kendall did not want to play in Portland.
Glen.
|
| 10.141 | Makes Chuck Person look good | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Remember Twins/Braves in '91? | Fri Feb 26 1993 19:25 | 21 |
| Laettner is starting to turn some fans against him here. First he has
the on-court problems of passing the ball, then the recent incident of
shouting obcentities at an assistant coach while on the floor (where
many fans heard him and TV mics picked up) then the latest dumb
decision of going to NC to accept an award while NOT getting permission
from the team to miss practice. He figured he'd be fined, but when
suspended he seemed shocked. Not only has he not shown remorse for his
error in judgement, but he has defended the decision saying that it was
something he and his agent felt to be the correct choice. Meanwhile the
Woofs are telling him his JOB is to be with the team. I'm glad to see
Sidney stand up to him, because Rodgers sure didn't handle him well and
that led to the first problems with his teammates.
The local media/announcers who follow the Woofs have publicly said he
is one strange bird. He's off in his own world and doesn't really
associate with anyone on the team. He's one talented player, but it's
obvious he's going to have to change his ways or have more problems
down the line.
Spud
|
| 10.142 | Pretty boy image fading | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Remember Twins/Braves in '91? | Fri Feb 26 1993 19:28 | 8 |
| Oh, I forgot to mention something about the game he was suspended in
New York on Tuesday night. 250 Duke alumni had made the trip to NY to
see him.
Good move, dolt head.
Spud
|
| 10.143 | Gill rumors | HBAHBA::HAAS | A Log of Effort | Mon Mar 01 1993 15:44 | 15 |
| re: Kendall Gill trades
The Hornets killed the Derek Harper trade when they woke up and realized
that Gill for Harper didn't help them.
Gill killed the Terry Porter trade by not agreeing to negotiate a multi
year contract for the Trail Blazers.
In the meanwhile, Gill's agent wrote another letter telling the Hornets
that they had no other option than to pay Gill 125% of this year's salary
and then he's gone. Won't be soon enough.
Any one want a head case?
TTom
|
| 10.144 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Mar 04 1993 14:57 | 76 |
| Is this what Pete & Mike meant by strong defensive Western Conference
team regularly beating up on those weak Eastern Conference teams?
<<< OOBIE::OOBIE$DKA200:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Welcome Back to the Boston Celtics Conference! >-
================================================================================
Note 6.1360 Last Night's Game Note 1360 of 1366
TRACTR::SAPP "Racism-A Media Creation! Marge Schott" 65 lines 4-MAR-1993 08:26
-< Spurs 91, Celtics 132 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q1 Q2 Q3 Q3 Final
San Antonio 26 20 20 25 91
Boston 31 31 39 31 132
San Antonio Spurs
Player Min GM GA FM FA Reb Ast Pts
Reid 31 8 13 3 4 6 0 19
Wood 16 1 2 0 0 1 1 2
Robinson 28 4 11 5 8 8 0 13
Ellis 31 7 10 0 1 3 0 16
Johnson 22 4 8 1 2 1 7 9
Daniels 16 0 2 0 0 1 3 0
Carr 18 3 9 0 2 1 0 6
Del Negro 21 3 6 0 0 2 4 6
Smith 20 0 1 0 0 7 1 0
Anderson 20 6 12 0 0 1 1 12
Mack 17 1 4 6 6 2 1 8
Totals 240 37 78 15 23 33 18 91
Boston Celtics
Player Min GM GA FM FA Reb Ast Pts
Abdelnaby 11 5 5 0 0 6 0 10
McDaniel 20 6 11 2 2 2 0 14
Gamble 36 8 16 2 2 1 5 19
Parish 26 8 15 3 3 11 0 19
Brown 34 5 11 3 3 3 8 14
Lewis DNP
McHale 18 2 5 1 1 2 0 5
Fox 27 6 8 2 2 3 4 14
Kleine 19 3 4 2 2 4 0 8
Douglas 31 10 13 3 4 3 12 23
Bagley 11 1 3 0 0 1 4 2
Williams 7 2 4 0 0 1 0 4
Totals 240 56 95 18 19 37 33 132
Game Season
Spurs Celtics Spurs Celtics
FG% .470 .589 .493 .475
FT% .652 .947 .759 .782
Reb 33 37 43.7 44.0
Asst 18 33 25.0 23.9
TO 24 9 14.6 14.5
Steals 4 14
|
| 10.145 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | Let's Not Be L7 | Thu Mar 04 1993 15:39 | 5 |
| In all fairness BigMac, San Antonio was doing it with mirrors.
The toughest part of their schedule was after the Some Star break
and the LucasLoveIn can't mask some serious talent deficiencies.
/Don
|
| 10.146 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Come on Eileen, ta-loorayah.. | Thu Mar 04 1993 18:26 | 3 |
| The Celtics beat them while Elliott was out. Therefore, it doesn't
REALLY count...
|
| 10.147 | Good luck Quinn! | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Remember Twins/Braves in '91? | Thu Mar 04 1993 20:26 | 20 |
| They announced about 15 minutes ago that Quinn Buckner has been named
the new head coach of Dallas. At the same time Jimmy Jackson has
signed a six year contract with the Mavs.
During a T-Woofs broadcast a couple of weeks ago, the play-by-play man
Kevin Harlan was calling Buckner "coach" and making other joking
comments about the Dallas position. They had done this is the past,
but when Harlan asked him seriously where things stood, Quinn said that
they were talking, he was listening, but nothing had been decided.
Apparently signing Jackson had a lot to do with it.
Buckner is a very intelligent BB guy and I think he'll make a fine
coach. He won't have the talent for awhile, but given the chance I
think he'll turn them around quite nicely in the next couple of years.
Hmmm, Lowe broadcasts for the Woofies, then becomes head coach. Now
Buckner. Wonder who's next?
Spud
|
| 10.148 | clarification | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Remember Twins/Braves in '91? | Thu Mar 04 1993 20:28 | 5 |
| Buckner's TV analyst contract will not allow him to take over until
next season. Probably doesn't break him too much.
Spud
|
| 10.149 | Jerry Sichting next? | ROYALT::ASHE | Come on Eileen, ta-loorayah.. | Thu Mar 04 1993 20:36 | 1 |
| Rothstein was the Piston's announcer lasted year...
|
| 10.150 | let's see if JJ is worth it | FRETZ::HEISER | | Fri Mar 05 1993 01:40 | 9 |
| Good to see yet another ex-Celtic has been hired to coach an NBA team.
Quinn Bucker is the new coach of the Dallas Mavs, effective next season.
Also, the Mavs signed Jimmy Jackson to a 3 year, $20M deal. He will
join the team on Friday against Houston and will get paid $2.8M this
season plus a $1M signing bonus. He is the highest paid rookie guard
in NBA history.
Mike
|
| 10.151 | current | FRETZ::HEISER | | Fri Mar 05 1993 18:26 | 35 |
| Western Conference
Pacific Division
Phoenix 41 13 .759 --
Seattle 39 17 .696 3
Portland 33 20 .623 7 1/2
LA Lakers 29 25 .537 12
LA Clippers 29 27 .518 13
Golden State 25 33 .431 18
Sacramento 18 38 .321 24
Midwest Division
W L Pct. GB
San Antonio 35 20 .636 --
Houston 35 21 .625 1/2
Utah 34 24 .586 2 1/2
Denver 24 32 .428 11 1/2
Minnesota 13 40 .245 21
Dallas 4 50 .074 30 1/2
Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division
W L Pct. GB
New York 38 18 .679 --
New Jersey 32 25 .561 6 1/2
Boston 30 26 .536 8
Orlando 27 26 .509 9 1/2
Miami 22 32 .407 15
Philadelphia 19 35 .352 18
Washington 16 40 .286 22
Central Division
Chicago 40 17 .702 --
Cleveland 38 20 .655 2 1/2
Charlotte 29 26 .527 10
Indiana 28 29 .491 12
Atlanta 26 31 .456 14
Detroit 24 31 .436 15
Milwaukee 22 34 .393 17 1/2
|
| 10.152 | Full expanded standings | PLUGH::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Sat Mar 06 1993 17:13 | 348 |
|
-- EASTERN Conference --
ATLANTIC W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
New York 38 18 0.679 -- 7- 3 won 2 25- 4 13-14 14- 5 26-12
New Jersey 32 25 0.561 6.5 5- 5 won 1 19-10 13-15 11- 8 21-16
Boston 31 26 0.544 7.5 5- 5 won 2 19- 7 12-19 11- 6 22-16
Orlando 27 27 0.500 10.0 5- 5 lost 2 17-12 10-15 9- 9 16-19
Miami 23 32 0.418 14.5 7- 3 won 5 17-12 6-20 5-11 12-22
Philadelphia 19 36 0.345 18.5 2- 8 lost 3 10-16 9-20 8-10 15-23
Washington 16 40 0.286 22.0 1- 9 lost 3 11-15 5-25 4-13 9-26
CENTRAL W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
Chicago 39 18 0.684 -- 7- 3 lost 1 20- 9 19- 9 12- 5 24-11
Cleveland 38 20 0.655 1.5 8- 2 won 1 24- 5 14-15 16- 4 23-11
Charlotte 30 26 0.536 8.5 5- 5 won 1 15-12 15-14 6-10 18-17
Indiana 28 28 0.500 10.5 6- 4 won 4 19-10 9-18 8-12 18-20
Atlanta 26 31 0.456 13.0 3- 7 lost 4 13-13 13-18 7-12 17-24
Detroit 24 32 0.429 14.5 5- 5 lost 2 18-11 6-21 6-12 20-19
Milwaukee 23 34 0.404 16.0 5- 5 won 3 15-15 8-19 9- 9 16-21
-- WESTERN Conference --
MIDWEST W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
San Antonio 36 20 0.643 -- 4- 6 won 1 23- 5 13-15 11- 5 20-12
Houston 36 21 0.632 0.5 9- 1 won 9 20- 8 16-13 14- 4 22-13
Utah 34 24 0.586 3.0 3- 7 lost 1 18-10 16-14 11- 5 19-15
Denver 24 32 0.429 12.0 6- 4 won 3 20- 8 4-24 9- 9 16-23
Minnesota 13 40 0.245 21.5 3- 7 lost 3 7-21 6-19 6-10 8-25
Dallas 4 51 0.073 31.5 0-10 lost 13 4-25 0-26 0-18 1-32
PACIFIC W L Pctg. GB L10 Streak Home Away Div. Conf.
------------ -- -- ----- ---- ----- ------- ----- ----- ----- -----
Phoenix 42 13 0.764 -- 6- 4 won 2 24- 2 18-11 14- 7 27- 9
Seattle 39 17 0.696 3.5 9- 1 won 9 24- 4 15-13 16- 5 27-10
Portland 33 21 0.611 8.5 4- 6 lost 2 21- 9 12-12 11- 8 21-12
Los Angeles 30 25 0.545 12.0 7- 3 won 2 16-11 14-14 10-11 20-16
Los Angeles 29 28 0.509 14.0 5- 5 lost 1 17-11 12-17 11-10 17-19
Golden State 25 33 0.431 18.5 5- 5 lost 1 14-14 11-19 5-16 17-17
Sacramento 18 39 0.316 25.0 1- 9 lost 2 12-16 6-23 5-15 12-24
-- EASTERN Conference --
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
ATLANTIC AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Boston 103.5 103.5 0.0 106.9 100.4 6.5 100.6 106.0 -5.4
Miami 103.5 104.7 -1.1 106.4 104.1 2.3 100.3 105.3 -5.0
New Jersey 103.5 102.2 1.3 104.3 99.4 4.9 102.7 105.0 -2.4
New York 100.5 95.5 5.0 102.6 92.6 10.0 98.3 98.6 -0.3
Orlando 107.4 105.9 1.5 106.8 101.9 4.9 108.2 110.7 -2.5
Philadelphia 108.2 113.2 -5.0 109.7 112.2 -2.5 106.8 114.1 -7.3
Washington 103.4 110.1 -6.7 107.1 107.3 -0.2 100.1 112.5 -12.4
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
CENTRAL AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Atlanta 106.0 109.7 -3.7 107.7 108.9 -1.2 104.5 110.3 -5.8
Charlotte 110.9 111.4 -0.5 110.9 109.0 1.9 110.8 113.7 -2.8
Chicago 105.0 99.2 5.7 105.8 98.0 7.8 104.1 100.6 3.5
Cleveland 108.8 102.3 6.5 113.2 101.1 12.1 104.4 103.4 1.0
Detroit 100.6 102.1 -1.4 103.3 98.7 4.6 97.7 105.7 -8.0
Indiana 109.8 106.9 2.9 112.4 103.6 8.9 106.9 110.4 -3.5
Milwaukee 101.9 104.4 -2.5 103.8 101.8 2.0 99.9 107.4 -7.5
-- WESTERN Conference --
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
MIDWEST AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Dallas 98.7 116.1 -17.4 101.7 115.3 -13.7 95.5 117.0 -21.6
Denver 105.2 107.9 -2.7 109.2 103.7 5.5 101.2 112.1 -10.9
Houston 103.4 100.2 3.2 106.8 101.2 5.6 100.2 99.2 1.0
Minnesota 97.6 104.3 -6.7 96.8 102.1 -5.3 98.5 106.7 -8.2
San Antonio 107.0 102.9 4.1 109.9 101.4 8.5 104.1 104.4 -0.4
Utah 106.9 104.5 2.4 108.6 103.6 5.0 105.4 105.4 -0.1
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
PACIFIC AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Golden State 112.6 113.3 -0.7 114.6 111.7 2.9 110.7 114.8 -4.0
Los Angeles 106.6 106.3 0.3 107.6 104.1 3.5 105.7 108.5 -2.8
Los Angeles 104.1 103.8 0.2 106.1 103.5 2.7 102.0 104.1 -2.1
Phoenix 114.4 107.3 7.1 118.6 106.4 12.2 110.7 108.1 2.6
Portland 107.1 104.3 2.8 108.7 103.0 5.7 105.1 105.9 -0.8
Sacramento 109.0 111.0 -2.1 109.5 106.3 3.1 108.5 115.6 -7.1
Seattle 108.5 101.9 6.6 112.1 100.9 11.3 104.9 103.0 1.9
ATLANTIC Division
ATLANTIC -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 11- 6 x 1-1 3-0 1-2 2-1 2-1 2-1
Miami 5-11 1-1 x 1-2 0-3 2-1 0-2 1-2
New Jersey 11- 8 0-3 2-1 x 1-2 3-0 2-2 3-0
New York 14- 5 2-1 3-0 2-1 x 1-2 4-0 2-1
Orlando 9- 9 1-2 1-2 0-3 2-1 x 2-1 3-0
Philadelphia 8-10 1-2 2-0 2-2 0-4 1-2 x 2-0
Washington 4-13 1-2 2-1 0-3 1-2 0-3 0-2 x
ATLANTIC -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 11-10 2-2 3-0 1-2 1-1 1-2 1-2 2-1
Miami 7-11 1-2 1-2 0-2 1-1 3-1 1-1 0-2
New Jersey 10- 8 2-1 1-2 0-3 2-0 1-1 1-1 3-0
New York 12- 7 2-1 2-1 2-1 1-1 1-2 2-0 2-1
Orlando 7-10 2-0 0-2 1-2 2-1 0-3 1-1 1-1
Philadelphia 7-13 1-3 0-2 2-0 0-1 1-3 1-3 2-1
Washington 5-13 2-1 0-3 0-2 0-2 0-2 1-2 2-1
ATLANTIC -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 6- 4 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0 1-1 0-2
Miami 6- 4 2-0 1-0 0-1 2-0 1-1 0-2
New Jersey 5- 5 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-1 1-1 1-1
New York 7- 2 2-0 1-1 1-1 2-0 0-0 1-0
Orlando 5- 2 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 1-1
Philadelphia 1- 7 1-0 0-1 0-2 0-0 0-2 0-2
Washington 5- 4 1-0 0-1 1-0 1-1 1-1 1-1
ATLANTIC -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Boston 3- 6 1-0 1-1 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 0-2
Miami 5- 6 0-2 1-0 2-0 0-2 1-1 1-1 0-0
New Jersey 6- 4 0-1 1-0 2-0 0-1 0-1 2-0 1-1
New York 5- 4 1-0 0-2 0-0 1-0 1-1 1-0 1-1
Orlando 6- 6 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-2 2-0 2-0 0-1
Philadelphia 3- 6 1-1 1-1 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-1 1-0
Washington 2-10 1-1 0-2 0-2 0-2 0-1 1-0 0-2
CENTRAL Division
CENTRAL -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 10-12 2-2 2-1 1-2 1-2 0-2 3-1 1-2
Charlotte 12- 7 0-3 2-1 2-1 1-2 2-0 2-0 3-0
Chicago 12- 6 2-1 2-0 3-0 1-2 2-1 0-2 2-0
Cleveland 7- 7 1-1 1-1 0-2 1-1 1-2 1-0 2-0
Detroit 14- 7 2-1 1-3 1-1 2-1 3-0 3-1 2-0
Indiana 10- 8 2-1 1-1 1-1 0-2 1-1 3-1 2-1
Milwaukee 7-12 1-2 2-0 0-3 1-2 1-1 1-2 1-2
CENTRAL -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 7-12 x 1-1 2-1 0-4 2-2 1-2 1-2
Charlotte 6-10 1-1 x 1-2 0-2 3-0 0-4 1-1
Chicago 12- 5 1-2 2-1 x 2-2 1-0 3-0 3-0
Cleveland 16- 4 4-0 2-0 2-2 x 2-1 3-0 3-1
Detroit 6-12 2-2 0-3 0-1 1-2 x 2-2 1-2
Indiana 8-12 2-1 4-0 0-3 0-3 2-2 x 0-3
Milwaukee 9- 9 2-1 1-1 0-3 1-3 2-1 3-0 x
CENTRAL -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 5- 2 0-1 1-0 0-1 1-0 2-0 1-0
Charlotte 5- 4 2-0 1-1 0-1 0-0 1-1 1-1
Chicago 6- 5 2-0 1-1 0-2 1-0 0-2 2-0
Cleveland 6- 4 2-0 0-1 1-1 2-0 0-1 1-1
Detroit 3- 7 1-1 0-1 1-1 1-1 0-2 0-1
Indiana 3- 6 1-1 1-0 0-2 0-1 1-1 0-1
Milwaukee 5- 5 2-0 1-0 1-0 1-1 0-2 0-2
CENTRAL -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Atlanta 4- 5 2-0 0-0 0-1 0-2 0-1 1-1 1-0
Charlotte 7- 5 2-0 1-1 0-1 0-2 1-0 2-0 1-1
Chicago 9- 2 2-0 1-0 0-2 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-0
Cleveland 9- 5 2-0 1-1 2-0 2-0 0-2 1-1 1-1
Detroit 1- 6 0-1 1-1 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-0 0-2
Indiana 7- 2 2-0 1-1 1-0 0-0 1-1 2-0 0-0
Milwaukee 2- 8 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-1
MIDWEST Division
MIDWEST -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 0- 9 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-1 0-1
Denver 4- 4 0-1 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-0
Houston 6- 5 1-1 1-0 1-1 1-1 0-1 2-0 0-1
Minnesota 2- 9 0-2 0-2 1-1 0-2 0-1 0-0 1-1
San Antonio 7- 4 1-1 1-1 1-1 0-0 1-0 2-0 1-1
Utah 9- 4 2-0 2-0 1-1 0-1 1-1 2-0 1-1
MIDWEST -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 3-10 1-0 0-2 0-2 0-2 1-1 1-1 0-2
Denver 4- 5 0-1 1-1 1-1 1-0 1-0 0-1 0-1
Houston 8- 3 1-0 1-0 2-0 1-1 1-1 2-0 0-1
Minnesota 3- 6 0-1 0-0 0-1 0-2 1-1 1-0 1-1
San Antonio 9- 4 0-2 1-1 2-0 1-0 2-0 1-1 2-0
Utah 6- 5 0-1 1-1 0-2 1-1 1-0 1-0 2-0
MIDWEST -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 0-18 x 0-4 0-4 0-4 0-3 0-3
Denver 9- 9 4-0 x 2-2 2-1 1-3 0-3
Houston 14- 4 4-0 2-2 x 3-1 3-0 2-1
Minnesota 6-10 4-0 1-2 1-3 x 0-2 0-3
San Antonio 11- 5 3-0 3-1 0-3 2-0 x 3-1
Utah 11- 5 3-0 3-0 1-2 3-0 1-3 x
MIDWEST -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Dallas 1-14 0-2 0-2 1-2 0-2 0-2 0-2 0-2
Denver 7-14 1-1 1-1 1-3 0-2 1-3 2-1 1-3
Houston 8- 9 0-2 3-0 1-1 1-2 0-2 3-0 0-2
Minnesota 2-15 0-2 0-2 0-2 0-3 1-1 1-2 0-3
San Antonio 9- 7 0-2 3-0 1-1 1-2 1-1 1-1 2-0
Utah 8-10 0-3 2-1 1-1 0-2 1-1 2-1 2-1
PACIFIC Division
PACIFIC -vs- ATLANTIC
Team W/L BOS MIA NJN NYK ORL PHI WAS
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 6- 5 0-1 2-0 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-1 1-1
Los Angeles 7- 4 1-1 0-1 0-1 2-0 1-0 1-1 2-0
Los Angeles 5- 5 1-0 0-2 0-2 0-0 1-1 1-0 2-0
Phoenix 9- 1 1-0 2-0 1-0 0-1 2-0 1-0 2-0
Portland 5- 5 0-1 1-1 1-0 1-1 0-2 1-0 1-0
Sacramento 3- 7 1-0 1-1 0-2 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-1
Seattle 7- 3 2-0 0-0 1-1 1-1 1-0 0-1 2-0
PACIFIC -vs- CENTRAL
Team W/L ATL CHA CHI CLE DET IND MIL
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 2-11 0-2 0-2 0-2 0-2 1-0 0-2 1-1
Los Angeles 5- 5 0-0 1-1 0-1 1-1 1-1 1-1 1-0
Los Angeles 5- 4 1-0 1-0 2-0 0-2 0-0 0-1 1-1
Phoenix 6- 3 2-0 2-0 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-0 1-0
Portland 7- 4 1-0 0-1 0-2 2-0 1-0 1-1 2-0
Sacramento 3- 8 1-1 0-2 0-2 1-1 0-0 0-2 1-0
Seattle 5- 4 0-1 1-1 0-1 1-1 2-0 0-0 1-0
PACIFIC -vs- MIDWEST
Team W/L DAL DEN HOU MIN SAS UTH
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 12- 1 2-0 1-1 2-0 2-0 2-0 3-0
Los Angeles 6- 9 2-0 1-1 0-3 2-0 0-3 1-2
Los Angeles 10- 5 2-1 3-1 1-1 2-0 1-1 1-1
Phoenix 13- 2 2-0 2-0 2-1 3-0 2-1 2-0
Portland 10- 4 2-0 3-1 2-0 1-1 1-1 1-1
Sacramento 7- 9 2-0 1-2 0-3 2-1 1-1 1-2
Seattle 11- 5 2-0 3-1 2-0 3-0 0-2 1-2
PACIFIC -vs- PACIFIC
Team W/L GSW LAC LAL PHO POR SAC SEA
------------ ----- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Golden State 5-16 x 2-2 0-3 1-3 0-3 2-1 0-4
Los Angeles 11-10 2-2 x 2-2 2-2 1-1 3-1 1-2
Los Angeles 10-11 3-0 2-2 x 0-3 3-1 2-2 0-3
Phoenix 14- 7 3-1 2-2 3-0 x 1-2 3-0 2-2
Portland 11- 8 3-0 1-1 1-3 2-1 x 3-0 1-3
Sacramento 5-15 1-2 1-3 2-2 0-3 0-3 x 1-2
Seattle 16- 5 4-0 2-1 3-0 2-2 3-1 2-1 x
|
| 10.153 | Updated triple doubles | PLUGH::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Sat Mar 06 1993 17:13 | 37 |
| - TRIPLE DOUBLES -
TM Player POS OPP DATE PTS REB AST BLK STL
--- ------------------ --- --- ------ --- --- --- --- ---
CHI Scottie Pippen F CLE MMM DD 22 10 10
CHI Scottie Pippen F DET MMM DD 16 12 10
ORL Scott Skiles G WAS MMM DD 14 12 11
POR Rod Strickland DET MMM DD 11 10 13
IND Pooh Richardson G CHA MMM DD 14 10 11
WAS Tom Gugliotta F IND MMM DD 19 12 11
LAC Mark Jackson G CLE MMM DD 16 10 10
PHO Charles Barkley F CHA MMM DD 23 12 10
CHI Michael Jordan G CLE MMM DD 28 11 10
NJN Kenny Anderson G LAC MMM DD 26 10 12
IND Detlef Schrempf F SAC MMM DD 25 12 14
CLE Brad Daugherty C SEA MMM DD 11 12 11
MIN Michael Williams G BOS MMM DD 16 10 14
HOU Otis Thorpe F SAS MMM DD 12 19 10
CHI Michael Jordan G PHI MMM DD 23 10 10
MIN Michael Williams G GSW MMM DD 27 13 15
LAC Mark Jackson G DAL MMM DD 21 12 10
NJN Kenny Anderson G CHA MMM DD 13 11 11
CHI Michael Jordan G CHA MMM DD 28 12 11
PHO Charles Barkley F HOU MMM DD 25 17 10
IND Detlef Schrempf F LAC MMM DD 15 18 12
IND Detlef Schrempf F PHI MMM DD 20 10 10
CHI Scottie Pippen F ORL MMM DD 13 10 10
CHI Michael Jordan G GSW MMM DD 26 12 10
LAL Sam Perkins >SEA C WAS MMM DD 16 13 10
PHI Hersey Hawkins G IND MMM DD 28 13 10
IND Detlef Schrempf MIL MMM DD 34 12 10
MIA Steve Smith G DEN MMM DD 21 10 12
PHO Charles Barkley F ATL MMM DD 25 16 12
PHO Charles Barkley F UTH MMM DD 29 11 11
LAC Mark Jackson G GSW MMM DD 10 11 14
PHO Charles Barkley F CLE MMM DD 27 19 11
CHI Scottie Pippen G SAS MMM DD 39 13 10
|
| 10.154 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | NotEconomicallyViable | Mon Mar 08 1993 14:49 | 5 |
| Luckily I missed yesterday's FANtasticBall offerings, but did
Magic chastise Jackson for not signing with the Lakers like he did
in last week's telecast?
/Don
|
| 10.155 | East & West only 1 game apart | FRETZ::HEISER | | Mon Mar 08 1993 19:50 | 55 |
| Victory Margin Leaders
----------------------
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
OVERALL AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Phoenix 114.4 107.3 7.1 118.6 106.4 12.2 110.7 108.1 2.6
Seattle 108.5 101.9 6.6 112.1 100.9 11.3 104.9 103.0 1.9
Cleveland 108.8 102.3 6.5 113.2 101.1 12.1 104.4 103.4 1.0
Chicago 105.0 99.2 5.7 105.8 98.0 7.8 104.1 100.6 3.5
New York 100.5 95.5 5.0 102.6 92.6 10.0 98.3 98.6 -0.3
San Antonio 107.0 102.9 4.1 109.9 101.4 8.5 104.1 104.4 -0.4
Divisional Matchups W L Pct.
----------------------------------
ATLANTIC -vs- CENTRAL 59 72 .450
ATLANTIC -vs- MIDWEST 35 28 .556
ATLANTIC -vs- PACIFIC 30 42 .417
-----------
124 142 .466
CENTRAL -vs- ATLANTIC 72 59 .550
CENTRAL -vs- MIDWEST 33 33 .500
CENTRAL -vs- PACIFIC 39 33 .542
-----------
144 125 .535
MIDWEST -vs- ATLANTIC 28 35 .444
MIDWEST -vs- CENTRAL 33 33 .500
MIDWEST -vs- PACIFIC 35 69 .337
-----------
96 137 .412
PACIFIC -vs- ATLANTIC 42 30 .583
PACIFIC -vs- CENTRAL 33 39 .458
PACIFIC -vs- MIDWEST 69 35 .663
----------
144 104 .581
East-West Conference Matchups W L Pct.
--------------------------------------------
ATLANTIC -vs- MIDWEST 35 28 .556
ATLANTIC -vs- PACIFIC 30 42 .417
CENTRAL -vs- MIDWEST 33 33 .500
CENTRAL -vs- PACIFIC 39 33 .542
-----------
137 136 .501
MIDWEST -vs- ATLANTIC 28 35 .444
MIDWEST -vs- CENTRAL 33 33 .500
PACIFIC -vs- ATLANTIC 42 30 .583
PACIFIC -vs- CENTRAL 33 39 .458
-----------
136 137 .498
|
| 10.156 | sorted by Pts For, Pts Against, Victory Margin | FRETZ::HEISER | | Wed Mar 10 1993 16:35 | 95 |
| Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
Pts. For AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Phoenix 114.4 107.3 7.1 118.6 106.4 12.2 110.7 108.1 2.6
Golden State 112.6 113.3 -0.7 114.6 111.7 2.9 110.7 114.8 -4.0
Charlotte 110.9 111.4 -0.5 110.9 109.0 1.9 110.8 113.7 -2.8
Indiana 109.8 106.9 2.9 112.4 103.6 8.9 106.9 110.4 -3.5
Sacramento 109.0 111.0 -2.1 109.5 106.3 3.1 108.5 115.6 -7.1
Cleveland 108.8 102.3 6.5 113.2 101.1 12.1 104.4 103.4 1.0
Seattle 108.5 101.9 6.6 112.1 100.9 11.3 104.9 103.0 1.9
Philadelphia 108.2 113.2 -5.0 109.7 112.2 -2.5 106.8 114.1 -7.3
Orlando 107.4 105.9 1.5 106.8 101.9 4.9 108.2 110.7 -2.5
Portland 107.1 104.3 2.8 108.7 103.0 5.7 105.1 105.9 -0.8
San Antonio 107.0 102.9 4.1 109.9 101.4 8.5 104.1 104.4 -0.4
Utah 106.9 104.5 2.4 108.6 103.6 5.0 105.4 105.4 -0.1
Los Angeles 106.6 106.3 0.3 107.6 104.1 3.5 105.7 108.5 -2.8
Atlanta 106.0 109.7 -3.7 107.7 108.9 -1.2 104.5 110.3 -5.8
Denver 105.2 107.9 -2.7 109.2 103.7 5.5 101.2 112.1 -10.9
Chicago 105.0 99.2 5.7 105.8 98.0 7.8 104.1 100.6 3.5
Los Angeles 104.1 103.8 0.2 106.1 103.5 2.7 102.0 104.1 -2.1
Boston 103.5 103.5 0.0 106.9 100.4 6.5 100.6 106.0 -5.4
Miami 103.5 104.7 -1.1 106.4 104.1 2.3 100.3 105.3 -5.0
Houston 103.4 100.2 3.2 106.8 101.2 5.6 100.2 99.2 1.0
Washington 103.4 110.1 -6.7 107.1 107.3 -0.2 100.1 112.5 -12.4
New Jersey 103.5 102.2 1.3 104.3 99.4 4.9 102.7 105.0 -2.4
Milwaukee 101.9 104.4 -2.5 103.8 101.8 2.0 99.9 107.4 -7.5
Detroit 100.6 102.1 -1.4 103.3 98.7 4.6 97.7 105.7 -8.0
New York 100.5 95.5 5.0 102.6 92.6 10.0 98.3 98.6 -0.3
Dallas 98.7 116.1 -17.4 101.7 115.3 -13.7 95.5 117.0 -21.6
Minnesota 97.6 104.3 -6.7 96.8 102.1 -5.3 98.5 106.7 -8.2
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
Pts. Against AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
New York 100.5 95.5 5.0 102.6 92.6 10.0 98.3 98.6 -0.3
Chicago 105.0 99.2 5.7 105.8 98.0 7.8 104.1 100.6 3.5
Houston 103.4 100.2 3.2 106.8 101.2 5.6 100.2 99.2 1.0
Seattle 108.5 101.9 6.6 112.1 100.9 11.3 104.9 103.0 1.9
Detroit 100.6 102.1 -1.4 103.3 98.7 4.6 97.7 105.7 -8.0
New Jersey 103.5 102.2 1.3 104.3 99.4 4.9 102.7 105.0 -2.4
Cleveland 108.8 102.3 6.5 113.2 101.1 12.1 104.4 103.4 1.0
San Antonio 107.0 102.9 4.1 109.9 101.4 8.5 104.1 104.4 -0.4
Boston 103.5 103.5 0.0 106.9 100.4 6.5 100.6 106.0 -5.4
Los Angeles 104.1 103.8 0.2 106.1 103.5 2.7 102.0 104.1 -2.1
Minnesota 97.6 104.3 -6.7 96.8 102.1 -5.3 98.5 106.7 -8.2
Portland 107.1 104.3 2.8 108.7 103.0 5.7 105.1 105.9 -0.8
Milwaukee 101.9 104.4 -2.5 103.8 101.8 2.0 99.9 107.4 -7.5
Utah 106.9 104.5 2.4 108.6 103.6 5.0 105.4 105.4 -0.1
Miami 103.5 104.7 -1.1 106.4 104.1 2.3 100.3 105.3 -5.0
Orlando 107.4 105.9 1.5 106.8 101.9 4.9 108.2 110.7 -2.5
Los Angeles 106.6 106.3 0.3 107.6 104.1 3.5 105.7 108.5 -2.8
Indiana 109.8 106.9 2.9 112.4 103.6 8.9 106.9 110.4 -3.5
Phoenix 114.4 107.3 7.1 118.6 106.4 12.2 110.7 108.1 2.6
Denver 105.2 107.9 -2.7 109.2 103.7 5.5 101.2 112.1 -10.9
Atlanta 106.0 109.7 -3.7 107.7 108.9 -1.2 104.5 110.3 -5.8
Washington 103.4 110.1 -6.7 107.1 107.3 -0.2 100.1 112.5 -12.4
Sacramento 109.0 111.0 -2.1 109.5 106.3 3.1 108.5 115.6 -7.1
Charlotte 110.9 111.4 -0.5 110.9 109.0 1.9 110.8 113.7 -2.8
Philadelphia 108.2 113.2 -5.0 109.7 112.2 -2.5 106.8 114.1 -7.3
Golden State 112.6 113.3 -0.7 114.6 111.7 2.9 110.7 114.8 -4.0
Dallas 98.7 116.1 -17.4 101.7 115.3 -13.7 95.5 117.0 -21.6
Season Home Away
=================== =================== ===================
Vict. Marg. AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / - AVG/PF AVG/PA + / -
------ ------ ----- ------ ------ ----- ------ ------ -----
Phoenix 114.4 107.3 7.1 118.6 106.4 12.2 110.7 108.1 2.6
Seattle 108.5 101.9 6.6 112.1 100.9 11.3 104.9 103.0 1.9
Cleveland 108.8 102.3 6.5 113.2 101.1 12.1 104.4 103.4 1.0
Chicago 105.0 99.2 5.7 105.8 98.0 7.8 104.1 100.6 3.5
New York 100.5 95.5 5.0 102.6 92.6 10.0 98.3 98.6 -0.3
San Antonio 107.0 102.9 4.1 109.9 101.4 8.5 104.1 104.4 -0.4
Houston 103.4 100.2 3.2 106.8 101.2 5.6 100.2 99.2 1.0
Indiana 109.8 106.9 2.9 112.4 103.6 8.9 106.9 110.4 -3.5
Portland 107.1 104.3 2.8 108.7 103.0 5.7 105.1 105.9 -0.8
Utah 106.9 104.5 2.4 108.6 103.6 5.0 105.4 105.4 -0.1
New Jersey 103.5 102.2 1.3 104.3 99.4 4.9 102.7 105.0 -2.4
Orlando 107.4 105.9 1.5 106.8 101.9 4.9 108.2 110.7 -2.5
Los Angeles 106.6 106.3 0.3 107.6 104.1 3.5 105.7 108.5 -2.8
Los Angeles 104.1 103.8 0.2 106.1 103.5 2.7 102.0 104.1 -2.1
Boston 103.5 103.5 0.0 106.9 100.4 6.5 100.6 106.0 -5.4
Charlotte 110.9 111.4 -0.5 110.9 109.0 1.9 110.8 113.7 -2.8
Golden State 112.6 113.3 -0.7 114.6 111.7 2.9 110.7 114.8 -4.0
Miami 103.5 104.7 -1.1 106.4 104.1 2.3 100.3 105.3 -5.0
Detroit 100.6 102.1 -1.4 103.3 98.7 4.6 97.7 105.7 -8.0
Sacramento 109.0 111.0 -2.1 109.5 106.3 3.1 108.5 115.6 -7.1
Milwaukee 101.9 104.4 -2.5 103.8 101.8 2.0 99.9 107.4 -7.5
Denver 105.2 107.9 -2.7 109.2 103.7 5.5 101.2 112.1 -10.9
Atlanta 106.0 109.7 -3.7 107.7 108.9 -1.2 104.5 110.3 -5.8
Philadelphia 108.2 113.2 -5.0 109.7 112.2 -2.5 106.8 114.1 -7.3
Minnesota 97.6 104.3 -6.7 96.8 102.1 -5.3 98.5 106.7 -8.2
Washington 103.4 110.1 -6.7 107.1 107.3 -0.2 100.1 112.5 -12.4
Dallas 98.7 116.1 -17.4 101.7 115.3 -13.7 95.5 117.0 -21.6
|
| 10.157 | ranked by FG% - the defensive stat asked for! | FRETZ::HEISER | | Fri Mar 12 1993 18:19 | 96 |
| {Sorted by Opp. FG%} - it's no coincidence the teams with the best centers also
have the best FG's against percentage.
Team FG% Opp. FG% Margin
-------------------------------------------
New York 46.1 42.9 3.2
San Antonio 49.1 45.0 4.1
Orlando 49.0 45.2 3.8
Houston 48.6 45.7 2.9
Boston 47.8 46.0 1.8
Indiana 48.2 46.4 1.8
Seattle 48.4 46.4 2.0
Charlotte 48.3 46.5 1.8
Denver 45.9 46.5 -0.6
New Jersey 45.8 46.6 -0.8
LAClippers 47.7 46.8 0.9
Chicago 47.7 47.1 0.6
Miami 45.7 47.1 -1.4
Portland 45.3 47.1 -1.8
Utah 48.9 47.1 1.8
Cleveland 50.2 47.3 2.9
LALakers 47.5 47.4 0.1
Milwaukee 47.3 47.6 -0.3
Phoenix 49.3 48.0 1.3
Minnesota 46.1 48.0 -1.9
Detroit 45.7 48.6 -2.9
Philadelphia 45.9 48.6 -2.7
Golden State 48.8 48.8 0.0
Sacramento 46.8 49.0 -2.2
Washington 47.2 49.3 -2.1
Dallas 42.5 50.1 -7.6
Atlanta 46.4 50.5 -4.1
{Sorted by Shooting FG%}
Team FG% Opp. FG% Margin
-------------------------------------------
Cleveland 50.2 47.3 2.9
Phoenix 49.3 48.0 1.3
San Antonio 49.1 45.0 4.1
Orlando 49.0 45.2 3.8
Utah 48.9 47.1 1.8
Golden State 48.8 48.8 0.0
Houston 48.6 45.7 2.9
Seattle 48.4 46.4 2.0
Charlotte 48.3 46.5 1.8
Indiana 48.2 46.4 1.8
Boston 47.8 46.0 1.8
Chicago 47.7 47.1 0.6
LAClippers 47.7 46.8 0.9
LALakers 47.5 47.4 0.1
Milwaukee 47.3 47.6 -0.3
Washington 47.2 49.3 -2.1
Sacramento 46.8 49.0 -2.2
Atlanta 46.4 50.5 -4.1
New York 46.1 42.9 3.2
Minnesota 46.1 48.0 -1.9
Denver 45.9 46.5 -0.6
Philadelphia 45.9 48.6 -2.7
New Jersey 45.8 46.6 -0.8
Detroit 45.7 48.6 -2.9
Miami 45.7 47.1 -1.4
Portland 45.3 47.1 -1.8
Dallas 42.5 50.1 -7.6
{Sorted by Margin of Shooting-Opponent's Shooting}
Team FG% Opp. FG% Margin
-------------------------------------------
San Antonio 49.1 45.0 4.1
Orlando 49.0 45.2 3.8
New York 46.1 42.9 3.2
Cleveland 50.2 47.3 2.9
Houston 48.6 45.7 2.9
Seattle 48.4 46.4 2.0
Boston 47.8 46.0 1.8
Indiana 48.2 46.4 1.8
Charlotte 48.3 46.5 1.8
Utah 48.9 47.1 1.8
Phoenix 49.3 48.0 1.3
LAClippers 47.7 46.8 0.9
Chicago 47.7 47.1 0.6
LALakers 47.5 47.4 0.1
Golden State 48.8 48.8 0.0
Milwaukee 47.3 47.6 -0.3
Denver 45.9 46.5 -0.6
New Jersey 45.8 46.6 -0.8
Miami 45.7 47.1 -1.4
Portland 45.3 47.1 -1.8
Minnesota 46.1 48.0 -1.9
Washington 47.2 49.3 -2.1
Sacramento 46.8 49.0 -2.2
Philadelphia 45.9 48.6 -2.7
Detroit 45.7 48.6 -2.9
Atlanta 46.4 50.5 -4.1
Dallas 42.5 50.1 -7.6
|
| 10.158 | still a myth | FRETZ::HEISER | | Fri Mar 12 1993 18:58 | 13 |
| It looks like FG% can be thrown out as a "defensive" stat too. Of all
the teams in the top 10 for FG% allowed, only 3 are legitimate
contenders to the throne (NY, SA, SEA). What's even funnier is that
there is an ever mixture of East and West teams there, and the world
champs are way down at #12.
It looks like the Margin stat is a better representative of the quality
teams, but still not satisfactory. Everyone seems to agree that Phoenix,
Seattle, San Antonio, New York, Cleveland, and Chicago are the elite.
These teams all have positive Margins, but Chicago is the worst of the
bunch. They almost give up as much as they score!
Mike
|
| 10.159 | Top 14 Rookies | FRETZ::HEISER | there's a Whacko in Waco | Fri Mar 12 1993 21:00 | 17 |
| Jimmy Jackson will surely be in here the next time I post them.
Player Team PO GP Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score
O'Neal ORL C 50 38.28 24.28 14.3 1.66 4.68 161.9
Mourning CHA C 48 31.70 19.22 10 .9791 4.354 128.7
Gugliotta WAS F 54 32.90 14.25 9.611 3.907 1.925 111.5
Laettner MIN CF 49 34.46 18 8.387 2.428 2.163 101.9
Ellis DEN F 53 33.28 14.45 9.056 1.735 2.094 95.12
Dumas PHO F 32 29.53 17.5 5.187 1.312 2.781 87.45
Williams SAC G 39 25.46 15.87 4.435 2.948 1.743 80.99
WeatherspooPHI F 52 31.07 15.23 6.615 1.653 1.692 79.27
Horry HOU F 54 29.96 10.62 4.925 2.259 2.166 78.34
Sprewell GSW G 51 32.72 13.39 3.372 2.411 2.235 76.46
Rooks DAL C 43 28.18 13.13 6.813 1.465 1.418 72.92
Avent MIL F 55 28.10 10.38 5.854 1.127 1.636 66.38
Miller PHO C 31 17.22 5.774 4.516 2 1.903 66.19
Peeler LAL G 48 22.20 10.54 2.354 1.979 .9583 48.69
|
| 10.160 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Mon Mar 15 1993 03:56 | 6 |
| Maybe someone who follows the Celtics can explain how they beat
Cleveland last week and then lose at home to Milwaukee and Charlotte??
Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.161 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Mar 22 1993 18:35 | 1 |
| I see teams in the "Mighty West" already have playoff berths locked up.
|
| 10.162 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon Mar 22 1993 19:15 | 16 |
| What are the tiebreakers in the NBA for home court advantage, both during
conference play and the championship round. Here is a start.
In conference:
1. Head to head
2. Record in conference
For Finals
1. Head to head
2. Record against the opposite conference
Where does it go from there??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.163 | haw haw | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Mar 22 1993 20:25 | 1 |
| 3. Record vs. Eastern contenders
|
| 10.164 | How about them Mavs! | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Mar 22 1993 20:36 | 1 |
| 2 in a row!
|
| 10.165 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon Mar 22 1993 20:40 | 6 |
| If the Mavs had signed Jimmy Jackson before the season began they
might have even won 15-20 games by now. Guess it is unlikely they
will break the 76'ers record for futility. At least the Ottawa Senators
may break the Capitals record for futility in the NHL.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.166 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Mar 22 1993 20:43 | 2 |
| And they might have done it before he reached the usual 50-game rookie
burnout level.
|
| 10.167 | | CTHQ::LEARY | US:WorldCop,WillPuffChestForMoney | Tue Mar 23 1993 15:37 | 8 |
| I know this is the NBA note, but a word about the Ottawa Senators.
Unlike the Tampa Bay and San Jose franchises, the Senators have the
luxury of building a team by keeping their draft choices and developing
their farm teams for long term success because of the popularity of the
sport in Canada. Their record was to be expected.
MikeL
|
| 10.168 | A basketball game breaks out in Phoenix | KYOA::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Mar 24 1993 13:12 | 16 |
| Ddi anybody catch the Knicks and Phoenix last night? A real donnybrook
took place just before halftime resulting in ejections of 4 knicks
(Starks,Rivers,Mason and Anthony) and two suns (Ainge and Kevin
Johnson).
Greg Anthony figures to draw large suspension since he suckerpunched
KJ while he was in street clothes. KJ was the instigator-trying to
roughup Rivers. Even Pat riley got involvedripping his pants in the
process.
Bo Kimble got major PT in the second half-shooting almost everytime he
touched the ball,while getting abused by Majerle on defense. Barkley
managed to stay out of the fight.
With only Hubert David as a guard,Knicks were blown out in the second
half.
|
| 10.169 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Mar 24 1993 13:27 | 2 |
| Sounds like the refs handed Phoenix the game by ejecting all those New
Yorkers.
|
| 10.170 | independently confirmed | HBAHBA::HAAS | Nanook Wannabe | Thu Mar 25 1993 13:41 | 7 |
| from .168
> ... KJ was the instigator-trying to ...
KJ to BLAM!
TTom
|
| 10.171 | Sidney Lowe and guns | HBAHBA::HAAS | Obelisk of Objective Observation | Thu Mar 25 1993 15:01 | 12 |
| In other NBA news:
Sidney Lowe, interim coach for the T'wolves, was given a three year
contract. This makes Sidney, 33 the youngest coach in the NBA.
Denver is woring on a deal for individuals to turn in a gun and get 2
free tickets. Bring your guns to specified locations and the Nuggets will
give you 2 tickets to the season's final game against Phoenix. One can
only wonder if'n you should keep a backup piece for when KJ goes outta
control again ;-).
TTom
|
| 10.172 | dumb idea | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu Mar 25 1993 17:14 | 1 |
| Guns are much more expensive than 2 Nuggett tickets.
|
| 10.173 | Current standings | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Mar 31 1993 16:42 | 36 |
| Western Conference
W L Pct. GB
Pacific Division
x-Phoenix 53 15 .789 --
x-Seattle 47 23 .670 7
Portland 41 26 .612 11 1/2
LA Lakers 34 34 .500 19
LA Clippers 34 36 .486 20
Golden State 28 41 .406 25 1/2
Sacramento 21 48 .301 32 1/2
Midwest Division
x-Houston 44 25 .638 --
x-San Antonio 43 25 .634 1/2
Utah 40 30 .571 4 1/2
Denver 29 40 .420 15
Minnesota 17 51 .250 26 1/2
Dallas 7 61 .103 36 1/2
Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division
W L Pct. GB
x-New York 48 20 .706 --
Boston 41 28 .594 7 1/2
New Jersey 41 29 .586 8
Orlando 33 34 .493 14 1/2
Miami 31 37 .456 17
Philadelphia 21 47 .309 27
Washington 20 48 .294 28
Central Division
x-Chicago 48 21 .699 --
Cleveland 43 25 .632 4 1/2
Atlanta 37 32 .536 11
Charlotte 35 35 .500 13 1/2
Indiana 33 35 .485 14 1/2
Detroit 31 37 .456 16 1/2
Milwaukee 26 43 .377 22
x-clinched playoff berth
|
| 10.174 | Records since All-Star break | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Mar 31 1993 16:45 | 15 |
| EAST WEST
Chicago 13 3 0.812 Houston 14 4 0.778
Boston 15 4 0.789 Phoenix 14 5 0.737
New_York 13 4 0.765 Seattle 14 5 0.737
Atlanta 13 5 0.722 Portland 10 10 0.500
Miami 12 6 0.667 Denver 9 10 0.474
Cleveland 9 6 0.600 LA_Lakers 8 10 0.444
Indiana 10 7 0.588 San_Antonio 8 10 0.444
Detroit 10 7 0.588 LA_Clippers 7 11 0.389
New_Jersey 10 8 0.556 Utah 7 12 0.368
Charlotte 9 11 0.450 Golden_State 5 10 0.333
Orlando 8 11 0.421 Sacramento 4 13 0.235
Milwaukee 6 12 0.333 Minnesota 4 16 0.200
Washington 5 12 0.294 Dallas 3 16 0.158
Philadelphia 3 15 0.167
|
| 10.175 | Team stats | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Mar 31 1993 16:46 | 180 |
| Team Scoring Team Defense
Team Pts/Game Team Pts/Game
1 PhoenixSuns 114.6 1 NYKnicks 96.1
2 CharlotteHornets 110.2 2 ChicagoBulls 99.0
3 GSWarriors 109.8 3 HoustonRockets 99.4
4 IndianaPacers 108.9 4 NJNets 101.3
5 SacramentoKings 108.8 5 SanAntonioSpurs 101.5
6 SeattleSupersonics 108.6 6 ClevelandCavaliers 101.7
7 AtlantaHawks 108.1 7 SeattleSupersonics 101.7
8 ClevelandCavaliers 108.0 8 DetroitPistons 102.3
9 PortlandTrailBlazers 107.8 9 BostonCeltics 103.1
10 LAClippers 107.0 10 MiamiHeat 104.4
11 UtahJazz 106.6 11 UtahJazz 104.4
12 OrlandoMagic 106.2 12 LALakers 104.5
13 SanAntonioSpurs 106.1 13 PortlandTrailBlazers 104.9
14 Philadelphia76ers 105.4 14 MilwaukeeBucks 104.9
15 ChicagoBulls 105.3 15 OrlandoMagic 104.9
16 DenverNuggets 105.0 16 MinnesotaT-wolves 104.9
17 BostonCeltics 104.3 17 PhoenixSuns 106.7
18 LALakers 103.9 18 LAClippers 107.2
19 NJNets 103.8 19 DenverNuggets 107.3
20 MiamiHeat 103.5 20 IndianaPacers 107.5
21 HoustonRockets 102.9 21 AtlantaHawks 109.2
22 WashingtonBullets 102.8 22 WashingtonBullets 109.2
23 MilwaukeeBucks 102.2 23 CharlotteHornets 111.0
24 NYKnicks 101.3 24 SacramentoKings 111.4
25 DetroitPistons 100.9 25 GSWarriors 111.6
26 DallasMavericks 98.3 26 Philadelphia76ers 111.6
27 MinnesotaT-wolves 97.5 27 DallasMavericks 115.0
Team FG Pct Offensive Team FT Pct
Team FG Pct. Team FT Pct.
1 ClevelandCavaliers 0.499 1 ClevelandCavaliers 0.808
2 PhoenixSuns 0.495 2 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.797
3 OrlandoMagic 0.491 3 Philadelphia76ers 0.794
4 SanAntonioSpurs 0.490 4 BostonCeltics 0.781
5 UtahJazz 0.489 5 NJNets 0.778
6 BostonCeltics 0.487 6 MiamiHeat 0.772
7 SeattleSupersonics 0.486 7 IndianaPacers 0.771
8 CharlotteHornets 0.483 8 CharlotteHornets 0.769
9 IndianaPacers 0.482 9 SacramentoKings 0.769
10 GSWarriors 0.482 10 SeattleSupersonics 0.767
11 LAClippers 0.481 11 SanAntonioSpurs 0.766
12 HoustonRockets 0.481 12 UtahJazz 0.761
13 ChicagoBulls 0.479 13 DenverNuggets 0.759
14 MilwaukeeBucks 0.476 14 HoustonRockets 0.752
15 LALakers 0.474 15 PhoenixSuns 0.751
16 WashingtonBullets 0.472 16 LALakers 0.750
17 AtlantaHawks 0.469 17 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.750
18 NYKnicks 0.465 18 WashingtonBullets 0.749
19 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.465 19 NYKnicks 0.742
20 SacramentoKings 0.464 20 MilwaukeeBucks 0.740
21 DenverNuggets 0.460 21 AtlantaHawks 0.736
22 NJNets 0.459 22 ChicagoBulls 0.731
23 DetroitPistons 0.457 23 OrlandoMagic 0.726
24 Philadelphia76ers 0.456 24 DetroitPistons 0.716
25 MiamiHeat 0.455 25 LAClippers 0.716
26 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.455 26 GSWarriors 0.714
27 DallasMavericks 0.432 27 DallasMavericks 0.703
Team Defensive FG Pct. Team 3 Pt. Pct.
Team FG Pct. Team 3 Pt Pct.
1 NYKnicks 0.431 1 ClevelandCavaliers 0.391
2 OrlandoMagic 0.454 2 ChicagoBulls 0.381
3 HoustonRockets 0.456 3 AtlantaHawks 0.369
4 SanAntonioSpurs 0.457 4 PhoenixSuns 0.360
5 BostonCeltics 0.461 5 OrlandoMagic 0.358
6 DenverNuggets 0.462 6 SeattleSupersonics 0.356
7 NJNets 0.463 7 GSWarriors 0.353
8 SeattleSupersonics 0.467 8 HoustonRockets 0.352
9 IndianaPacers 0.468 9 MiamiHeat 0.349
10 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.468 10 Philadelphia76ers 0.343
11 CharlotteHornets 0.470 11 DallasMavericks 0.343
12 UtahJazz 0.470 12 MilwaukeeBucks 0.338
13 ClevelandCavaliers 0.471 13 NJNets 0.337
14 LAClippers 0.472 14 SanAntonioSpurs 0.335
15 ChicagoBulls 0.473 15 CharlotteHornets 0.326
16 MiamiHeat 0.476 16 SacramentoKings 0.324
17 MilwaukeeBucks 0.477 17 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.323
18 LALakers 0.478 18 DetroitPistons 0.323
19 PhoenixSuns 0.478 19 UtahJazz 0.320
20 DetroitPistons 0.483 20 IndianaPacers 0.318
21 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.485 21 NYKnicks 0.313
22 Philadelphia76ers 0.486 22 WashingtonBullets 0.305
23 GSWarriors 0.486 23 DenverNuggets 0.299
24 WashingtonBullets 0.490 24 LALakers 0.296
25 SacramentoKings 0.492 25 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.292
26 AtlantaHawks 0.501 26 BostonCeltics 0.288
27 DallasMavericks 0.502 27 LAClippers 0.270
Team Rebounding Difference Team Personal Fouls
Team Reb Diff Team Fouls
1 NYKnicks 5.4 1 DallasMavericks 28.82
2 NJNets 5.2 2 NYKnicks 25.93
3 ChicagoBulls 3.4 3 SacramentoKings 25.76
4 PhoenixSuns 3.3 4 GSWarriors 25.26
5 SeattleSupersonics 2.1 5 DenverNuggets 25.23
6 IndianaPacers 1.6 6 IndianaPacers 25.18
7 DenverNuggets 1.6 7 MiamiHeat 24.69
8 AtlantaHawks 1.5 8 MinnesotaT-wolves 24.67
9 MiamiHeat 1.4 9 MilwaukeeBucks 24.42
10 PortlandTrailBlazers 1.3 10 SeattleSupersonics 24.06
11 SanAntonioSpurs 1.1 11 UtahJazz 23.76
12 BostonCeltics 1.0 12 LAClippers 23.65
13 OrlandoMagic 0.9 13 OrlandoMagic 23.65
14 DetroitPistons 0.5 14 NJNets 23.20
15 HoustonRockets 0.2 15 PortlandTrailBlazers 23.06
16 GSWarriors 0.1 16 BostonCeltics 22.67
17 UtahJazz 0.1 17 SanAntonioSpurs 22.27
18 LAClippers -0.6 18 AtlantaHawks 22.25
19 ClevelandCavaliers -1.0 19 ChicagoBulls 21.93
20 LALakers -1.7 20 WashingtonBullets 21.93
21 CharlotteHornets -2.3 21 CharlotteHornets 21.80
22 SacramentoKings -2.9 22 DetroitPistons 21.52
23 MinnesotaT-wolves -3.1 23 LALakers 21.46
24 WashingtonBullets -3.5 24 PhoenixSuns 21.24
25 DallasMavericks -4.2 25 HoustonRockets 20.51
26 Philadelphia76ers -5.0 26 Philadelphia76ers 19.78
27 MilwaukeeBucks -6.4 27 ClevelandCavaliers 18.94
Team Player Technicals Team Flagrant Fouls
Team Technicals Team FFs
1 NYKnicks 70 1 NYKnicks 14
2 PhoenixSuns 51 2 DallasMavericks 13
3 PortlandTrailBlazers 44 3 UtahJazz 10
4 UtahJazz 41 4 GSWarriors 9
5 CharlotteHornets 39 5 MiamiHeat 8
6 DetroitPistons 36 6 IndianaPacers 8
7 LAClippers 33 7 OrlandoMagic 8
8 SeattleSupersonics 30 8 NJNets 7
9 DenverNuggets 30 9 DenverNuggets 7
10 MilwaukeeBucks 29 10 DetroitPistons 6
11 IndianaPacers 26 11 PortlandTrailBlazers 6
12 HoustonRockets 26 12 SeattleSupersonics 6
13 DallasMavericks 26 13 LAClippers 6
14 Philadelphia76ers 24 14 BostonCeltics 4
15 OrlandoMagic 23 15 PhoenixSuns 4
16 NJNets 23 16 CharlotteHornets 4
17 BostonCeltics 23 17 SanAntonioSpurs 4
18 LALakers 23 18 ClevelandCavaliers 4
19 AtlantaHawks 20 19 AtlantaHawks 4
20 ChicagoBulls 20 20 LALakers 3
21 GSWarriors 20 21 ChicagoBulls 3
22 MinnesotaT-wolves 19 22 HoustonRockets 2
23 SacramentoKings 18 23 MilwaukeeBucks 2
24 SanAntonioSpurs 15 24 MinnesotaT-wolves 2
25 MiamiHeat 15 25 Philadelphia76ers 2
26 WashingtonBullets 15 26 SacramentoKings 1
27 ClevelandCavaliers 10 27 WashingtonBullets 0
Team Turnovers Team Blocked Shots
Team Turnovers Team Blocks
1 ClevelandCavaliers 13.40 1 Philadelphia76ers 7.06
2 ChicagoBulls 13.53 2 HoustonRockets 6.72
3 DetroitPistons 13.85 3 ClevelandCavaliers 6.66
4 BostonCeltics 14.20 4 DenverNuggets 6.65
5 PortlandTrailBlazers 14.79 5 NJNets 6.57
6 SanAntonioSpurs 14.88 6 SanAntonioSpurs 6.36
7 UtahJazz 15.16 7 CharlotteHornets 5.97
8 LALakers 15.48 8 LAClippers 5.96
9 MiamiHeat 15.48 9 OrlandoMagic 5.89
10 IndianaPacers 15.60 10 MinnesotaT-wolves 5.82
11 SeattleSupersonics 15.62 11 BostonCeltics 5.74
12 HoustonRockets 15.68 12 PhoenixSuns 5.46
13 NYKnicks 15.81 13 LALakers 5.28
14 NJNets 16.22 14 IndianaPacers 5.26
15 WashingtonBullets 16.24 15 ChicagoBulls 5.21
16 LAClippers 16.25 16 PortlandTrailBlazers 5.06
17 CharlotteHornets 16.26 17 MilwaukeeBucks 4.99
18 AtlantaHawks 16.42 18 SeattleSupersonics 4.97
19 SacramentoKings 16.49 19 WashingtonBullets 4.62
20 PhoenixSuns 16.66 20 GSWarriors 4.56
21 Philadelphia76ers 16.81 21 NYKnicks 4.45
22 MilwaukeeBucks 17.09 22 MiamiHeat 4.34
23 DenverNuggets 17.13 23 DallasMavericks 4.32
24 MinnesotaT-wolves 17.28 24 SacramentoKings 4.15
25 OrlandoMagic 17.50 25 UtahJazz 3.91
26 GSWarriors 17.54 26 AtlantaHawks 3.38
27 DallasMavericks 17.99 27 DetroitPistons 3.15
|
| 10.176 | Individual stats | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Mar 31 1993 16:55 | 105 |
| Scoring (min 41 games) FG Pct (310 attempts)
Player Team AVG Player Team Pct
jordan,michael Chi 32.5 daugherty,brad Cle 0.576
wilkins,dominiqu Atl 30.7 o'neal,shaquille Orl 0.569
malone,karl Uta 27.2 ceballos,cedric Pho 0.565
barkley,charles Pho 26.0 davis,dale Ind 0.561
mullin,chris GSW 25.9 thorpe,otis Hou 0.560
olajuwon,hakeem Hou 25.2 gatling,chris GSW 0.552
ewing,patrick NYK 24.2 malone,karl Uta 0.551
o'neal,shaquille Orl 23.7 brickowski,frank Mil 0.549
robinson,david San 23.3 nance,larry Cle 0.545
dumars,joe Det 23.2 marciulionis,sar GSW 0.543
Rebounds (min 41 games) Offensive
Player Team Boards Player Team Off
rodman,dennis Det 18.6 rodman,dennis Det 5.87
o'neal,shaquille Orl 13.7 grant,horace Chi 4.43
olajuwon,hakeem Hou 13.0 o'neal,shaquille Orl 4.23
willis,kevin Atl 12.9 willis,kevin Atl 4.16
mutombo,dikembe Den 12.7 mutombo,dikembe Den 4.06
barkley,charles Pho 12.5 kemp,shawn Sea 3.72
seikaly,rony Mia 11.9 seikaly,rony Mia 3.59
ewing,patrick NYK 11.6 davis,terry Dal 3.45
robinson,david San 11.6 davis,dale Ind 3.44
coleman,derrick NJN 11.5 olajuwon,hakeem Hou 3.43
Three Pointers 3 Point PCT (min 82 atts)
Player Team Threes Player Team Pct
ainge,danny Pho 135 petrovic,drazen NJN 0.462
miller,reggie Ind 132 armstrong,b.j. Chi 0.458
rice,glen Mia 128 mullin,chris GSW 0.451
majerle,dan Pho 123 smith,kenny Hou 0.440
porter,terry Por 112 price,mark Cle 0.435
price,mark Cle 107 ainge,danny Pho 0.433
maxwell,vernon Hou 101 scott,dennis Orl 0.429
blaylock,mookie Atl 100 brooks,scott Hou 0.427
wilkins,dominiqu Atl 100 les,jim Sac 0.420
ellis,dale San 97 tucker,trent Chi 0.417
FT pct (min 124 attempts) FT Attempts
Player Team FT pcts Player Team Attempts
price,mark Cle 0.958 malone,karl Uta 10.60
jackson,chris Den 0.922 o'neal,shaquille Orl 9.30
johnson,eddie Sea 0.907 robinson,david San 9.10
pierce,ricky Sea 0.895 wilkins,dominiqu Atl 8.83
williams,michael Min 0.887 schrempf,detlef Ind 8.12
skiles,scott Orl 0.887 barkley,charles Pho 7.97
curry,dell Cha 0.879 mourning,alonzo Cha 7.92
miller,reggie Ind 0.877 seikaly,rony Mia 7.68
petrovic,drazen NJN 0.877 jordan,michael Chi 7.36
hornacek,jeff Phi 0.876 coleman,derrick NJN 7.11
Assists (min 41 games) Turnovers
Player Team Assists Player Team TOs
stockton,john Uta 12.11 o'neal,shaquille Orl 3.79
hardaway,tim GSW 10.78 skiles,scott Orl 3.52
skiles,scott Orl 9.34 thomas,isiah Det 3.47
bogues,muggsy Cha 9.07 hardaway,tim GSW 3.33
jackson,mark LAC 8.91 ewing,patrick NYK 3.29
thomas,isiah Det 8.72 coleman,derrick NJN 3.27
williams,michael Min 8.65 stockton,john Uta 3.20
blaylock,mookie Atl 8.40 brickowski,frank Mil 3.18
anderson,kenny NJN 8.16 laettner,christi Min 3.18
price,mark Cle 7.87 pippen,scottie Chi 3.13
Steals (min 41 games) Blocked Shots
Player Team Steals Player Team Blocks
jordan,michael Chi 2.67 olajuwon,hakeem Hou 4.12
stockton,john Uta 2.50 mourning,alonzo Cha 3.74
blaylock,mookie Atl 2.45 o'neal,shaquille Orl 3.64
mcmillan,nate Sea 2.41 mutombo,dikembe Den 3.33
robertson,alvin Det 2.31 robinson,david San 3.33
williams,michael Min 2.29 nance,larry Cle 2.83
harper,ron LAC 2.28 bol,manute Phi 2.31
murdock,eric Mil 2.27 ellison,pervis Was 2.20
payton,gary Sea 2.16 lang,andrew Phi 2.05
pippen,scottie Chi 2.15 davis,dale Ind 1.97
Technicals Flagrant Fouls
Player Team Technicals Player Team FF
barkley,charles Pho 26 oakley,charles NYK 7
mason,anthony NYK 17 thompson,lasalle Ind 4
malone,karl Uta 16 salley,john Mia 4
oakley,charles NYK 14 reid,j.r. Cha 4
mourning,alonzo Cha 13 krystowiak,larry Uta 4
ewing,patrick NYK 13 coleman,derrick NJN 3
duckworth,kevin Por 11 mason,anthony NYK 3
kersey,jerome Por 11 ferry,danny Cle 3
norman,ken LAC 10 harper,derek Dal 3
johnson,larry Cha 10 davis,terry Dal 3
Min/Game (min 41 games) Personal Fouls
Player Team Min/Game Player Team Fouls
mullin,chris GSW 41.35 smith,doug Dal 4.60
johnson,larry Cha 40.41 roberts,stanley LAC 4.42
hardaway,tim GSW 40.33 hill,tyrone GSW 4.37
dumars,joe Det 40.09 kemp,shawn Sea 4.14
skiles,scott Orl 39.50 manning,danny LAC 4.13
majerle,dan Pho 39.39 o'neal,shaquille Orl 4.00
jordan,michael Chi 39.36 salley,john Mia 3.90
lewis,reggie Bos 39.15 olajuwon,hakeem Hou 3.80
rodman,dennis Det 38.98 schrempf,detlef Ind 3.78
olajuwon,hakeem Hou 38.88 mourning,alonzo Cha 3.74
|
| 10.177 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | Paying for decades of Demo.Congress | Wed Mar 31 1993 19:00 | 11 |
| SO, if the season ended today:
#1 Phoenix 53-15 vs. #8 Los Angeles Clippers 34-36
#4 San Antonio 43-25 vs. #5 Portland 41-26
#2 Houston 44-25 vs. #7 Los Angeles Lakers 34-34
#3 Seattle 47-23 vs. #6 Utah 40-30
#1 New York 48-20 vs. #8 Orlando 33-34
#4 Boston 41-28 vs. #5 New Jersey 41-29
#2 Chicago 48-21 vs. #7 Charlotte 35-35
#3 Cleveland 43-25 vs. #6 Atlanta 37-32
|
| 10.178 | Doc Rivers ejected 2nd time in 11 days | FRETZ::HEISER | it's your destiny | Mon Apr 05 1993 16:33 | 26 |
| The NBA's new Bad Boys were at it again Friday night -- another
victory and yet another major altercation.
Patrick Ewing scored 26 points and grabbed 22 rebounds, and the New
York Knicks snapped Miami's franchise-record 12-game home winning streak
with a 123-107 victory over the Heat.
There were 10 technicals called in the game, with Knicks point guard
Doc Rivers ejected for the second time in 11 days. Rivers had missed two
games over the past week after being suspended for his part in the brawl
at Phoenix March 23.
A Ewing elbow to the jaw of Miami's Grant Long sent Long for stitches
with 4:20 left in the third quarter, setting off a series of
altercations over the next several minutes.
The most heated came when Ewing and Miami's Keith Askins tangled with
1:59 left in the third, resulting in players from both sides pushing and
shoving one another until order was restored. Ewing and Askins both were
hit with technicals and Askins a flagrant foul.
Eighteen seconds later, Rivers was tossed after knocking Miami's
Steve Smith to the floor.
There were 65 fouls called in the contest.
John Starks added 23 points and Charles Smith 21 for the Knicks, who
won their fifth straight and 14th in their last 16 games to improve
their record to an Eastern Conference-leading 50-20. New York retained
its one-game lead in the East over Chicago.
Smith and Harold Miner each had 20 points for Miami, which fell
behind 60-40 by halftime after being outscored 30-17 in the second
quarter.
|
| 10.179 | current standings | FRETZ::HEISER | it's your destiny | Mon Apr 05 1993 16:33 | 36 |
| Western Conference
Pacific Division
x-Phoenix 55 15 .786 --
x-Seattle 49 23 .681 7
x-Portland 42 28 .600 13
LA Clippers 36 36 .500 20
LA Lakers 34 36 .486 21
Golden State 29 42 .408 26 1/2
Sacramento 22 50 .306 34
Midwest Division
W L Pct. GB
x-Houston 46 25 .648 --
x-San Antonio 44 27 .620 2
Utah 42 30 .583 4 1/2
Denver 31 41 .431 15 1/2
Minnesota 18 53 .254 28
Dallas 7 64 .099 39
Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division
W L Pct. GB
x-New York 51 20 .715 --
Boston 42 30 .583 9 1/2
New Jersey 42 31 .575 10
Orlando 33 37 .471 17 1/2
Miami 32 39 .443 19
Philadelphia 22 49 .310 29
Washington 21 50 .296 30
Central Division
x-Chicago 50 21 .704 --
Cleveland 44 27 .620 6
Atlanta 38 34 .528 12 1/2
Charlotte 37 35 .514 13 1/2
Indiana 35 36 .493 15
Detroit 33 37 .471 16 1/2
Milwaukee 26 45 .366 24
x-clinched playoff berth
|
| 10.180 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Mon Apr 05 1993 17:01 | 9 |
| Knick beat San Antonio in San Antonio in OT 119-115. Knicks had an
awful 3rd quarter blowing a 13 point halftime lead. Knicks are the
worst scoring club in the 3rd quarter this year - ouch. With Boston's
loss to Chicago, Knicks magic number for clinching the East is 2.
Knicks are now 19-16 on the road, having won 4 in a row on the road.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.181 | Any benchclearing thuggery brawls? | DECWET::METZGER | Dilbert works for DEC | Mon Apr 05 1993 17:02 | 5 |
|
Did anybody get ejected?
Metz
|
| 10.182 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Mon Apr 05 1993 17:13 | 5 |
| As far as I heard no one else was ejected; no brawl like the Phoenix
game.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.183 | | FRETZ::HEISER | it's your destiny | Mon Apr 05 1993 17:29 | 4 |
| > As far as I heard no one else was ejected; no brawl like the Phoenix
> game.
...or the Laker game, or the Miami game, or the...
|
| 10.184 | NBA goes hi-tech | FRETZ::HEISER | nothing but the blood | Mon Apr 12 1993 19:03 | 55 |
| IBM Donates ThinkPad Computers to NBA coaches
=================================================
NBA coaches next season will be replacing the old-fashioned
chalk-boards and white-boards they use to draw up plays on the sidelines
with hi-tech portable computers.
IBM will supply the hardware -- ThinkPad 710T computers that have
the surface area of a 8.5x11 piece of paper and are about an inch thick.
Almost the entire face of the computer is taken up by an LCD display
that accepts inputs from an electronic pen.
The computers will use the PenDOS pen-based operating system, and
Information and Display Systems(IDS) will supply the software
called Coaches' Tool. IDS developed the software with
the input of NBA coaches.
The program has 3 modules: Play Entry, Play Statistics, and Scouting
Report.
The Play Entry Module gives coaches a choice between a half-court and
a full-court diagram to draw set plays, out-of-bounds plays,
defensive schemes, and last second strategies. The plays can also
be printed on a sheet of paper. Plays can be stored beforehand
and called up when required.
The Play Statistics Module lets coaches and scouts track their
team's and opponent's efficiency in different plays. This module
also displays a half-court diagram but also posts a result board
to record the outcome of plays, including two-point field goals,
free throws, dunks, layups, good play indicator, missed shots,
fouls, turnovers, offensive rebounds, defensive rebounds, assists,
blocks, and steals. Data is grouped in logical ways.
For example, foul data is associated with free throw or missed shot
data; an assist would be followed up by two-or-three point field goal
information.
The Scouting Report Module lets team scouts record opponent's plays.
It gives coaches a choice of two full-court diagrams, a full and half
court, or two half courts. This allows the scout to record how a team
sets up its in-bound pass, and how it sets up the play in half-court
situations. Also, notes fields are provided for the scouts to record
personal observations.
IBM and IDS will be donating all the equipment and software to all
NBA teams as a promotional campaign. It will then be up to individual
coaching staffs to actually use their new tools.
Don Nelson, Warriors head coach, acknowledged as one of the most
innovative coaches in the NBA, has already jumped on the hi-tech bandwagon.
"An assistant coach will carry the ThinkPad and have information right
at his fingertips. While assistants will use the software to scout
the efficiency of plays and to scout other teams, I will use the
tablet to diagram plays. Instead of diagramming a play, I could just
bring it up by pushing a button."
|
| 10.185 | | GIAMEM::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Product Management | Mon Apr 12 1993 19:15 | 13 |
| The Marketing exposure that IBM will enjoy will be thigh shuddering,
but unless they plan to increase time outs to 10 minutes, I suspect
coaches will be chucking these aside.
Picture Pat Riley scribbling on one of these puppies while the unit
takes 20 minutes to render his handwriting in time to call up the
appropriate data.
Pen based systems have a long way to go performance-wise before they'll
enjoy mass market appeal. Nonetheless, it will still be a bennie for
IBM.
Mark.
|
| 10.186 | Where oh Where has Jimmy Clang gone? | CNTROL::CHILDS | U think u're something special? Think Again! | Mon Apr 12 1993 19:20 | 6 |
|
How about how them Lakers fan at the game yesterday? Sure is great to see
such support for such a worthwile team. I would think they'd turn out to
James "the franchise" Worthy alone....
mike
|
| 10.187 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Mon Apr 12 1993 23:17 | 6 |
| RE: IBM
And here I thought DEC (ummm... I mean Digital) was the NBA computer
vendor...
Ahhh. Marketing and Advertising... How sweet it is...
|
| 10.188 | we're sitting on a gold mine and ignoring it | FRETZ::HEISER | nothing but the blood | Tue Apr 13 1993 00:34 | 5 |
| 10.189 | | CAMONE::WAY | Don't start me to talkin' | Tue Apr 13 1993 12:53 | 19 |
| 10.190 | | GENRAL::WADE | yippy-I-yo-mama! | Tue Apr 13 1993 13:13 | 7 |
|
What happens when they throw their new clipboards (as some of
the more colorful coaches have done)?
Hope they did shock and vibe tests!
Claybroon
|
| 10.191 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Wed Apr 14 1993 17:53 | 7 |
| Don't get me started on how we blew it big time with using the NBA as a great
marketing tool. I once had a talk with one of the PR folks who was at a
meeting where DEC had to make a decision about what their relationship with the NBA
would be for the 1993 or 1994 season. An absolute horror story which I will
not post here. Catch me at a get together and I'll tell you all about it.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.192 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Wed Apr 14 1993 18:39 | 8 |
| What are the tie breaker steps in the NBAfor playoff position?
If the Knicks win all their remaining games except the last game of the season
against the Bulls and the Bulls win all their other games Knicks and Bulls
will have the same record and have split their head-to-head games 2-2. What
are the next steps?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.193 | conference record | FRETZ::HEISER | dance with the one who brung ya | Wed Apr 14 1993 21:10 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.194 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Wed Apr 14 1993 21:30 | 4 |
| ANd after conference record?they have a good chance of being tied there
as well. I think Bulls are 1 game behind in conference record.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.195 | need extra lunch money? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Apr 15 1993 16:45 | 14 |
|
Yabbut I thought I heard on the radion this AM that lasted night in
Chicago they had one of those "long shot contests", yaknow, where they
make ya take a half-court shot and win a prize?
Well, lasted night the shot was from one end of da court to the other.
"Make the shot and win a MILLION BUCKS!!!!"
Need I tell ya the ending or are y'all intuitively talented?
I remain,
capable of that shot in my sleep!
Kev
|
| 10.196 | I calls 'em as I sees 'em | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Thu Apr 15 1993 17:34 | 4 |
| Kev, I have trouble believing you could throw a baseball 3/4 court,
never mind sinking a basketball from that distance! ;-)
NAZZ
|
| 10.197 | | PLUGH::NEEDLE | Money talks. Mine says "Good-Bye!" | Thu Apr 15 1993 17:57 | 4 |
| Kev has to endure the additional hardship of having to get that additional
7-8 feet of elevation on top of the 75 feet of distance ;-).
j.
|
| 10.198 | Yer just jealous? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Apr 15 1993 18:09 | 18 |
|
Yabbut you guys have it all wrong!!!!
I said I could do it in my sleep!
(i.e. for you intellectually inpared that means I dream about it!) :*(
Truthfully though, I can hit the (area around) the backboard at 3/4
when I'm awake. Sometimes. Occasionally. Well, rarely.
Okay Okay, I think I did it once, maybe BUT.....
I still wish I had the million bucks!
I remain,
capable of hitting a 10 on a par 3 though! So THERE!!!!!
Kev
|
| 10.199 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | Paying for decades of Demo.Congress | Thu Apr 15 1993 19:22 | 7 |
| This guy from Minnesota who hit the shot (his name was Don Calhoun,
I believe) was picked by one of the Bulls' employees because she
"really liked his yellow shoes."
Earl Van Wright:
"That's it,
it's the shoes !
|
| 10.200 | playoff standings | FRETZ::HEISER | dance with the one who brung ya | Thu Apr 15 1993 20:11 | 26 |
| Eastern Conference
W L Pct. GB
y-New York 55 21 .724 --
x-Chicago 54 22 .710 1
x-Cleveland 48 27 .640 6 1/2
Boston 43 33 .566 12
New Jersey 42 36 .538 14
Atlanta 40 37 .519 15 1/2
Charlotte 39 38 .506 16 1/2
Detroit 38 38 .500 17
Indiana 38 38 .500 17
Orlando 37 38 .493 17 1/2
Western Conference
W L Pct. GB
y-Phoenix 60 16 .789 --
x-Houston 51 25 .671 9
x-Seattle 51 25 .671 9
x-Portland 47 28 .627 12 1/2
x-San Antonio 47 29 .618 13
x-Utah 43 33 .566 17
LA Clippers 38 39 .494 22 1/2
LA Lakers 36 40 .474 24
Denver 33 44 .428 27 1/2
y-clinched division title
x-clinched playoff berth
|
| 10.201 | if the playoffs started today... | FRETZ::HEISER | dance with the one who brung ya | Thu Apr 15 1993 20:15 | 15 |
| 1) New York 1) Phoenix
------------ ------------
8) Detroit | | 8) LA Lakers
|----- -----|
4) Boston | | | | 4) Portland
------------ | | ------------
5) New Jersey | | 5) San Antonio
|--- ---|
2) Chicago | | 2) Houston
------------ | | ------------
7) Charlotte | | | | 7) LA Clippers
|----- -----|
3) Cleveland | | 3) Seattle
------------ ------------
6) Atlanta 6) Utah
|
| 10.203 | | FRETZ::HEISER | dance with the one who brung ya | Thu Apr 15 1993 20:50 | 4 |
| Well thanks Tommy, I can wait til next season now.
I think the Pistons could throw quite a scare into the Knicks. They're
playing well lately too.
|
| 10.204 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Thu Apr 15 1993 20:57 | 8 |
| re:.203
I would much rather the Knicks play Indiana in the first round than
Detroit.
The Crazy Met
ps Tommy, shhhhhh, don't make such predictions too loudly :-)
|
| 10.205 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | dance with the one who brung ya | Thu Apr 15 1993 22:33 | 16 |
| Looks like you can no longer blame the Suns when it comes to the West's
record vs. the East.
Division Matchup W/L Pct Phoenix Comparison W/L Pct
------------------------------------ ------------------------------------
ATLANTIC -vs- CENTRAL 81-104 .438 -vs- ATLANTIC 12-2 .857
ATLANTIC -vs- MIDWEST 46-37 .554 -vs- CENTRAL 10-4 .714
ATLANTIC -vs- PACIFIC 46-52 .469 -vs- MIDWEST 18-2 .900
-vs- PACIFIC 20-8 .714
CENTRAL -vs- ATLANTIC 104-81 .562
CENTRAL -vs- MIDWEST 45-39 .535 -vs- East 22-6 .786
CENTRAL -vs- PACIFIC 53-45 .540 -vs- West 38-10 .792
Conference Matchup W/L Pct
------------------------------------
East -vs- West 190-173 .523
|
| 10.206 | NBA's Triple-Double leaders | FRETZ::HEISER | dance with the one who brung ya | Thu Apr 15 1993 22:36 | 10 |
| {courtesy of Jeff}
PHO Charles Barkley 6
CHI Michael Jordan 4
CHI Scottie Pippen 4
IND Detlef Schrempf 4
LAC Mark Jackson 3
CHA Larry Johnson 2
MIN Michael Williams 2
NJN Kenny Anderson 2
|
| 10.207 | pay for praise! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Fri Apr 16 1993 13:02 | 12 |
|
Yabbut Kenny Anderson wouldda had a lot more if'n he wasn't assaulted
and out for 1/3 of the season wif a busted wrist!
Kenny Anderson is gawd!
;^)
I remain,
wonderin if he'll lend me a millyon or two?
Kev
|
| 10.208 | NBA standings | HBAHBA::HAAS | Disoriented Wandering Adult | Mon Apr 19 1993 16:27 | 37 |
| NBA standings headed into the lasted week with games behind 1st and games
behind 8th. Note that the West had done been settled when the Lakers beat
Golden State and eliminated the Warriors and Denver.
y-New York 56 22 0.0
x-Chicago 55 23 1.0
x-Cleveland 51 27 5.0
x-Boston 45 34 11.5
x-New Jersey 43 36 13.5
Charlotte 41 38 15.5
Atlanta 40 38 16.0
Indiana 40 38 16.0
Detroit 38 40 18.0 2.0
Orlando 38 40 18.0 2.0
Miami 35 43 21.0 5.0
Milwaukee 28 51 28.5 12.5
Philadelphia 25 53 31.0 15.0
Washington 22 56 34.0 18.0
y-Phoenix 60 18 0.0
y-Houston 53 25 7.0
x-Seattle 52 26 8.0
x-Portland 49 29 11.0
x-San Antonio 47 31 13.0
x-Utah 45 33 15.0
x-LA Clippers 39 40 21.5
x-LA Lakers 37 41 23.0
Denver 34 45 26.5 3.5
Golden State 32 46 28.0 5.0
Sacramento 24 54 36.0 13.0
Minnesota 18 60 42.0 19.0
Dallas 9 69 51.0 28.0
y-clinched division title
x-clinched playoff berth
TTom
|
| 10.209 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | ComeToMiami-AndGiveUsYourMoney! | Tue Apr 20 1993 01:12 | 5 |
| Doc finally admitted that BILL RUSSELL was a far, far superior
playoff performer than Wilted Chamberlain. He's finally come to
his senses!
/Don
|
| 10.210 | Continuing a tradition - Worthy bashing for 1993 | DUGROS::ROSS | Hey, ho, hey, ho, hey, ho | Tue Apr 20 1993 02:19 | 17 |
| Can someone please update me on James Worthy? Seems I remember being
roasted (along with Mike Childs) for years when I claimed that Jimmy Clang
was one-dimensional, couldn't carry a team by himself, and owed 90% of
his paycheck to Magic dishing the ball off to him. Is it coincidence
that since Magic left, Worthy's FG% has dropped from about 55% to 42%
the past two years? Did I really see a a stat on TV the other day that
showed he was being outrebounded per game by Muggsy Bogues (averaging
somewhere around 2?????)? And now I see that James is coming off the
bench to light up the scoreboard (he put up a 1-8 game the other day).
Lakers will truly regret the day a couple years ago when they could've
dealt Worthy for a young star and a #1 pick. Now they'll have to somehow
convince him to retire after this season in order to free up some salary
and save some face.
Wonder if its as easy to get two hookers for a pre-game workout when you're
not a star anymore?
|
| 10.211 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Will u b there when I feed the tree... | Tue Apr 20 1993 02:53 | 2 |
| I missed that one /Don, but it wouldn't surprise me...
|
| 10.212 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | ABP | Tue Apr 20 1993 04:20 | 5 |
| When did Doc do that. How many beers did you have to pour into the
guy??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.213 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Will u b there when I feed the tree... | Tue Apr 20 1993 13:37 | 2 |
| It was more like "Who's the greatest center of all time, besides Wilt?"
|
| 10.215 | NBA Awards time | FRETZ::HEISER | Spam & Eggs, Spam, Spam | Tue Apr 20 1993 21:40 | 53 |
| Well it's just about that time of year again. Here are some of my
objective and biased opinions of who deserves what awards.
MVP - Charles Barkley. He claims to have had better seasons as a pro,
but he never had one on a team this good before. He has been at his
best statistically and has helped elevate the Suns to all sorts of new
records in performance. Jordan and Hakeem are the only other
contenders.
COY - Pat Riley. Paul Westphal has done just as well as anybody. In
some ways he's better because he knows when to get out of the way and
let the players play. The argument that he inherited a 50-game winner
is a weak one. Major changes were made besides Barkley. He did a
great job of blending a strange collection of new personalities into a
high-quality team. If he does it again next season, Westphal will win.
Riley proves that. Like Westy this year, Riles last year may have been
his best coaching performance, but Don Nelson won. The winner of this
award often gets it a year late.
As a side note, it's funny how so many recent winners were unemployed
the following year. Paul Westphal said he'd rather be the Riley of the
'80s: win a title every other year, but not win this award. Riles won
in 1990 and was working for NBC the next year. Rudy T. and John Lucas
will be sure to get some votes as well.
6th Man - Cliff Robinson. It helps when the 2 leading candidates
become starters (Thunder Dan, Detlef Schrempf). The X-man has done a
nice job for the Celtics as well as Eddie Johnson of Seattle (1989's
winner when with Phoenix). Robinson's performance has kept the Blazers
from sinking to far below the troubles of their injuries and off-court
problems. He's a key reason why they'll have homecourt advantage in
round 1. He's also matured quite a bit from the hotdog-style of his
early seasons.
RoY - Shaq. What else can be said that hasn't been said already? In
terms of rookies contributing to elite teams, there isn't one who has
done more than Richard Dumas of Phoenix.
Defensive Player - Hakeem Olajuwon. This is his consolation for not
winning MVP. He unexpectedly led the Rockets to the Midwest crown.
Jordan and Majerle may get a few votes as well.
Most Improved - ?. There is no clear standout here, but many good
ones. This used to be the Comeback Player award until reformed
substance abusers seemed to be taking the trophy home every year. Per
the league's request, they've changed it to honor "an up and coming
player who has made dramatic improvement in his game from previous
season(s). It is not to be intended to be given to a player who has
made a 'comeback.'" Those that should be considered are (in no order):
Chris Jackson (Den), John Starks (NY), Eric Murdock (Mil), Gary Payton
(Sea), Blue Edwards (Mil), and Cedric Ceballos (Pho). Go ahead and
grin, but Cedric, like Robinson, is another hot-dogger who matured and
more than adequately stepped in when Dumas went down.
|
| 10.216 | chiming in | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Wed Apr 21 1993 13:31 | 21 |
| Good start there, Mike.
MVP - Sir Charles. Totally agree. Hakeem is close and Michael probably
finishes third.
COY - I like Riley but I think Rudy Tomjanovich has really produced the
surprise division leader. Other nods to George Karl and Chris
Ford.
6th Man - Cliff Robinson. Dell Curry made a run for a while but has
dropped a bit.
ROY - despite the obvious bias, I'll give this to Shaq. Zo has won Rookie
of the Month and lasted week was Player of the Week so you gotta
mention him. Others include Googs, Walt Williams (who?) and
Robert Horry. Anthony Peeler and Doug Christie are both coming on
for the Lakers.
No clue about most improved.
TTom
|
| 10.217 | | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Wed Apr 21 1993 18:38 | 4 |
| >Good start there, Mike.
Thanks Tom! I thought it was pretty good for SPROTS Most Objective NBA
Analyst ;-)
|
| 10.218 | got to trun.. | CNTROL::CHILDS | She'sgotabigMind,built4ExtentedThought | Thu Apr 22 1993 15:00 | 16 |
|
MVP: IMO should be a one man gang. Charles has been good but Suns have
proven they can win without him. Bulls without Michael? Rockets without
Hakeem? I say it still belongs to Michael but wouldn't be disappointed
if Hakeem got it. Charles winning the award would further fuel my
distastes for NBA marketing and it's stranglehold on the game....
COY: Rudy T. looks like a good choice to me also...
ROY: Bias be dammed The better all around player is Alonzo but given
his late entry into the league and Shaq's year long consistency give
it to "Take it to the Rack"...
Most improved: Let's throw out Mookie Blaylock's name....
mike
|
| 10.219 | Sir Charles douses a fan | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Thu Apr 22 1993 15:13 | 7 |
| Speaking of the one man gang, Sir Charles didn't like the way a woman was
asking for a second autograph so he poured beer on her. The restaurant
owner said that the woman was being really obnoxious.
One can only wonder if Doc Rivers is behind this, somehow...
TTom
|
| 10.220 | NOT! | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Thu Apr 22 1993 16:03 | 9 |
| > MVP: IMO should be a one man gang. Charles has been good but Suns have
> proven they can win without him. Bulls without Michael? Rockets without
> Hakeem? I say it still belongs to Michael but wouldn't be disappointed
> if Hakeem got it. Charles winning the award would further fuel my
> distastes for NBA marketing and it's stranglehold on the game....
Let's see, they've beaten the mighty Timberwolves and lost to
Cleveland, L.A. Clippers, Utah, and Houston without Charles (1-4).
Yup, the Suns have proven they can win without him.
|
| 10.221 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | ComeToMiami-AndGiveUsYourMoney! | Thu Apr 22 1993 16:34 | 8 |
| MVP - Charles will get it, but Michael deserves it.
ROY - Shaq will get it and deserves it (sort of).
COY - Rudy T will get it but Daly deserves it for the job he's done
with Joisey after losing Kenny Anderson.
/Don
|
| 10.222 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Thu Apr 22 1993 16:52 | 6 |
| re: .220
Yabbut those games meant nearly nothing to the Suns; real hard to tell
in that kind of a game how much Barkley was or was not missed.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.223 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Will u b there when I feed the tree... | Thu Apr 22 1993 17:19 | 10 |
| I thought you said they were without Ainge, KJ and Miller for those
games too...
MVP: Barkley, Akeem, Wilkins, Ewing, Jordan
ROY: Shaq, Mourning, Gugliotta, Dumas, Sprewell
COY: Rudy T., Karl, Lucas (Daly is 13-12 since Kenny went down)
Most Improved: Avery Johnson, Mookie Blaylock,Winston Garland, Chris Jackson
6th man: Cliff
Defense: Akeem, Mourning
|
| 10.224 | | CAMONE::WAY | I'd have had to miss the dance | Thu Apr 22 1993 17:29 | 11 |
| >> <<< Note 10.223 by ROYALT::ASHE "Will u b there when I feed the tree..." >>>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
See the tree how big it's grown,
well friend it hasn't been too long,
it wasn't big......
;^)
|
| 10.225 | | MKFSA::LONG | I got friends in low places | Thu Apr 22 1993 19:58 | 13 |
| Here's my guesses:
MVP(s) Morrell twins
ROY Bubbles Malone
Most Improved Chesty Morgan
What???? The B stands for Basketball?????
<set voice> Emily Letelle
Nevermind....
|
| 10.226 | Mr Long is a B-man | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Thu Apr 22 1993 20:25 | 11 |
| > MVP(s) Morrell twins
Over the Barbi twins?!
As for the 6th man, a decent case could be made to exclude Cliff
Robinson and give it to someone else. Cliff averages over 31 minutes
per game (3rd highest on the Blazers) and has spent most of the 2nd
half of the season as a starter due to Blazer injuries.
Bad news for the Rockets: Vernon Maxwell will miss 2 weeks due to a
broken wrist. Horry is having problems with tendonitis.
|
| 10.227 | | CAMONE::WAY | I'd have had to miss the dance | Thu Apr 22 1993 20:37 | 17 |
| > Over the Barbi twins?!
Far too pendulous and ungainly. Frankly, I can't see what the appeal
of these two bimbos is. I can think of a hundred other women I'd
rather be gazing on.
ObBballStuff:
I think the MVP should be the guy who hands MikeyJ his
gatorade cup. Wifout the Gatorade, MikeyJ cain't go,
and wifout MikeyJ, all them sneaker and drink companies
wouldn't make any money.....
'Saw
|
| 10.228 | you'd take them anyway | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Thu Apr 22 1993 20:44 | 1 |
| yeah they're bimbos, but I was just trying help the guy out.
|
| 10.229 | | CAMONE::WAY | I'd have had to miss the dance | Fri Apr 23 1993 12:34 | 12 |
| > -< you'd take them anyway >-
As Ed McMahon used to say "You are RIGHT, sir"....especially these days.
> yeah they're bimbos, but I was just trying help the guy out.
A noble effort.....
'Saw
|
| 10.230 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Will u b there when I feed the tree... | Fri Apr 23 1993 15:24 | 2 |
| Hey, no baiting the moderator...
|
| 10.231 | latest NBA east | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Fri Apr 23 1993 15:51 | 48 |
| Heading into the lasted weekednd:
Current Standings:
Record GB GB Games Left
Team Win Loss 1st 8th Total Home Away
---- --- ---- --- --- ----- ---- ----
NY 58 22 0 2 1 1
CHI 57 23 1 2 0 2
CLE 53 27 5 2 1 1
BOS 46 34 12 2 1 1
NJ 43 37 15 2 1 1
ATL 42 38 16 2 1 1
CHAR 42 38 16 2 1 1
IND 40 40 18 0 2 1 1
ORL 39 41 19 1 2 1 1
DET 38 42 20 2 2 2 0
And the rest of the schedules:
Friday, 4/23 NEW YORK at Philadelphia (7:30 pm)
(NBC) Sunday, 4/25 Chicago at NEW YORK (1:00 pm)
Friday, 4/23 CHICAGO at Charlotte (7:30 pm)
(NBC) Sunday, 4/25 CHICAGO at New York (1:00 pm)
Friday, 4/23 CLEVELAND at Boston (7:30 pm)
(NBC*) Sunday, 4/25 Philadelphia at CLEVELAND (3:30 pm)
Friday, 4/23 Cleveland at BOSTON (7:30 pm)
Sunday, 4/25 BOSTON at Washington (1:00 pm)
Friday, 4/23 Orlando at NEW JERSEY (7:30 pm)
(NBC*) Sunday, 4/25 NEW JERSEY at Detroit (3:30 pm)
Friday, 4/23 Milwaukee at ATLANTA (7:30 pm)
Saturday, 4/24 ATLANTA at Orlando (7:30 pm)
Friday, 4/23 Chicago at CHARLOTTE (7:30 pm)
Saturday, 4/24 CHARLOTTE at Milwaukee (9:00 pm)
Friday, 4/23 INDIANA at Detroit (8:00 pm)
Saturday, 4/24 Miami at INDIANA (7:30 pm)
Friday, 4/23 ORLANDO at New Jersey (7:30 pm)
Saturday, 4/24 Atlanta at ORLANDO (7:30 pm)
Friday, 4/23 Indiana at DETROIT (8:00 pm)
(NBC*) Sunday, 4/25 New Jersey at DETROIT (3:30 pm)
|
| 10.232 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | ComeToMiami-AndGiveUsYourMoney! | Sat Apr 24 1993 20:07 | 11 |
| 10.233 | | FDCV06::KING | Jessinator attacks Disney, film @11 | Sun Apr 25 1993 03:55 | 6 |
| I would guess that any 310 pound slab of fat would cave in a NBA
basket. Shaq is NOTHING maore than a TON of slab under the basket.
He could not sink a 8 foot jumper if his team needed it to enter the
play-offs.. I am NOT impressed with him...
REK
|
| 10.234 | let's not be biased here... | MKFSA::LONG | Got some oceanfront property in AZ | Sun Apr 25 1993 04:04 | 3 |
| Don't hold back, REK, tell us how you really feal.
billl
|
| 10.235 | | FDCV06::KING | Jessinator attacks Disney, film @11 | Sun Apr 25 1993 04:14 | 7 |
| I used to follow/watch/enjoy the NBA. But not anymore..Last time I
checked the 3 step rule was traveling, but with Jordan and Pippen
its a hi-lite file... Last time I checked a left arm push-off was a
foul but not anymore... The game has gotten away from what it makes
a world wide sport. Now its the WWF...
REK
|
| 10.236 | Give me college or high school bb anytime! | MKFSA::LONG | Got some oceanfront property in AZ | Sun Apr 25 1993 04:21 | 7 |
| Hmmm, I thought I was the only one who has lost all faith in the
NBA actually producing a "basketball" game.
To me the basketball season ended when "what's his name" coached
those "overachievers" to a "legitamit" championship.
billl
|
| 10.237 | he may have a hard time measuring up... | CNTROL::CHILDS | She'sgotabigMind,built4ExtentedThought | Mon Apr 26 1993 11:19 | 8 |
|
Got disagree REK. While I wasn't impressed with ShaQ in college. I am in
the pros. I really like the way he hustle. 20+ plus point with limited
moves and a small assortment of shots isn't bad. It's the rebounding and
blocks that impress me. Too bad NBA marketing's going to make him out to
be larger than life.....
mike
|
| 10.238 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Mon Apr 26 1993 15:38 | 9 |
|
The most intriguing first round match up is Celtics-Hornets. Either team could
win that series.
It will be interesting to see if the ROY balloting is fairly close between
Shaq and Mourning; especially now that Charlotte made the playoffs and
Shaq's team Orlando did not.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.239 | Couldn't resist on a Monday | QUASER::JACKSONTA | If you see Kay | Mon Apr 26 1993 15:43 | 6 |
| TCM, When there is a playoff series between 2 teams, that does mean
that either team can win the series;^)
HTH,
Tim
|
| 10.240 | Bob's view on the playoffs and Dikembe | CAMONE::WAY | I'd have had to miss the dance | Mon Apr 26 1993 15:46 | 15 |
| From Bob Hunt:
==============================================================================
Hornets - Celtics playoff matchup. Man, do I wish I was still in SPORTS.
I'd be flaming all over every single Jihad member I could find. Tell all
them Green hoseheads for me that Larry Johnson is the MAIN MAIN and he will
lead the Hornets to the promised land.
Oh, and don't forget to tell Soup that Dikembe Mutombo is playing golf now.
Later,
Bob Hunt
|
| 10.241 | real thick people on this monday :-) | METSNY::francus | ABP | Mon Apr 26 1993 15:50 | 8 |
|
Tim,
Would you feel better if that was amended to a "reasonable chance of
winning" :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.242 | Its been cold, thick skin helps;^) | QUASER::JACKSONTA | If you see Kay | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:14 | 4 |
| How about "These teams are evenly matched which should give even odds
on winning"? Unlike the Suns/lakers matchup?
Tim
|
| 10.243 | My response: best of luck Charlotte! | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:19 | 11 |
|
I'd been watching Charlotte's last-dash ascent up to the #5 playoff
seed with considerable interest. For one thing, I might actually watch
the games now, as opposed to the dreary Nets. But as for Bob's barb,
it really doesn't matter, because Charlotte is a team I wouldn't mind
seeing thrash the Celtics, in order to deliver a reality check. Well,
then again, maybe not, but the series means a whole lot more to
Charlotte than it does to Boston.
glenn
|
| 10.244 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | The idea that nothing matters... | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:26 | 8 |
|
Like my brother who lives in the Charlotte area said "Atleast one of my
teams will make the second round".
While the Hornets may not be a favorite of mine, Mourning is definately
my favorite player in the league so if they advance I won't cry to loudly...
mike
|
| 10.245 | strange night | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:34 | 2 |
| Funny how all 8 Western seeds lost last night except for the Spurs
(beat Houston in OT).
|
| 10.246 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:40 | 7 |
| I kind of agree with Glenn. The Celtics had quite a few seats
available for Game 1 on sale last Monday, but I didn't think Joisey
was worth the cash outlay, Charlotte is. Still it would be fun
to see the Knicks at the Garden. I wonder if Bob Hunt is totally
off the Sixer bandwagon now?
/Don
|
| 10.247 | | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:40 | 2 |
| Is it true that Michael Williams broke Calvin Murphy's consecutive FT
record?
|
| 10.248 | MW | VIA::LILCBR::COHEN | | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:49 | 2 |
|
Yes
|
| 10.249 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Mon Apr 26 1993 16:53 | 6 |
|
Bird just missed, if I recall on the consecutive FT record. Mark Price also
just missed it. Calvin Murphy was refreshingly honest when he said that
he would be disappointed if someone would break his record.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.250 | Final Regular Season standings | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 18:04 | 34 |
| Western Conference
Pacific Division
y-Phoenix 62 20 .756 --
x-Seattle 55 27 .671 7
x-Portland 51 31 .622 11
x-LA Clippers 41 41 .500 21
x-LA Lakers 39 43 .476 23
Golden State 34 48 .415 28
Sacramento 25 57 .305 37
Midwest Division
W L Pct. GB
y-Houston 55 27 .671 --
x-San Antonio 49 33 .598 6 1/2
x-Utah 47 35 .573 8
Denver 36 46 .439 19
Minnesota 19 63 .232 36
Dallas 11 71 .134 44
Atlantic Division
W L Pct. GB
y-New York 60 22 .732 --
x-Boston 48 34 .585 12
x-New Jersey 43 39 .524 17
Orlando 41 41 .500 19
Miami 36 46 .439 24
Philadelphia 26 56 .317 34
Washington 22 60 .268 38
Central Division
y-Chicago 57 25 .695 --
x-Cleveland 54 28 .659 3
x-Charlotte 44 38 .537 13
x-Atlanta 43 39 .524 14
x-Indiana 41 41 .500 16
Detroit 40 42 .488 17
Milwaukee 28 54 .341 29
|
| 10.251 | Round 1 schedule | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 18:06 | 54 |
| 1993 NBA Playoff Schedule
(All Times EDT)
(Best of Five)
Eastern Conference
New York vs. Indiana
Friday, April 30 -- at New York, 8 p.m.
Sunday, May 2 -- at New York, 12:30 p.m.
Tuesday, May 4 -- at Indiana, 8:30 p.m.
x-Thursday, May 6 -- at Indiana, 8:30 p.m.
x-Sunday, May 9 -- at New York, TBA
Chicago vs. Atlanta
Friday, April 30 -- at Chicago, 8 p.m.
Sunday, May 2 -- at Chicago, 5:30 p.m.
Tuesday, May 4 -- at Atlanta, 8 p.m.
x-Friday, May 7 -- at Atlanta, TBA
x-Sunday, May 9 -- at Chicago, TBA
Cleveland vs. New Jersey
Thursday, April 29 -- at Cleveland, 7:30 p.m.
Saturday, May 1 -- at Cleveland, 7:30 p.m.
Wednesday, May 5 -- at New Jersey, 8 p.m.
x-Friday, May 7 -- at New Jersey, TBA
x-Sunday, May 9 -- at Cleveland, TBA
Boston vs. Charlotte
Thursday, April 29 -- at Boston, 8 p.m.
Saturday, May 1 -- at Boston, 1 p.m.
Wednesday, May 5 -- at New Jersey, 8 p.m.
x-Friday, May 7 -- at New Jersey, 8 p.m.
x-Sunday, May 9 -- at Boston, TBA
Western Conference
Phoenix vs. LA Lakers
Friday, April 30 -- at Phoenix, 10:30 p.m.
Sunday, May 2 -- at Phoenix, 3 p.m.
Tuesday, May 4 -- at LA Lakers, 10:30 p.m.
x-Thursday, May 6 -- LA Lakers, TBA
x-Sunday, May 9 -- at Phoenix, TBA
Houston vs. LA Clippers
Thursday, April 29 -- at Houston, 8:30 p.m.
Saturday, May 1 -- at Houston, 9:30 p.m.
Monday, May 3 -- at LA Clippers, 10:30 p.m.
x-Wednesday, May 5 -- at LA Clippers, 10:30 p.m.
x-Saturday, May 8 -- at Houston, TBA
Seattle vs. Utah
Friday, April 30 -- at Seattle, 10 p.m.
Sunday, May 2 -- at Seattle, 9 p.m.
Tuesday, May 4 -- at Utah, 9 p.m.
x-Thursday, May 6 -- at Utah, TBA
x-Saturday, May 8 -- at Seattle, 3:30 p.m.
Portland vs. San Antonio
Thursday, April 29 -- at Portland, 10:30 p.m.
Saturday, May 2 -- at Portland, 3:30 p.m.
Tuesday, May 4 -- at San Antonio, 8 p.m.
x-Friday, May 5 -- at San Antonio, TBA
x-Sunday, May 7 -- at Portland, TBA
x-if necessary
|
| 10.252 | summary of season series and home records | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 19:18 | 176 |
| TOTAL RECORDS:
Phx NY Chi Hou Sea Clev Por SA Bos Utah
Phoenix (62-20) --- 1-1 1-1 2-2 2-3 0-2 3-2 3-1 2-0 3-1
New_York (60-22) 1-1 --- 3-1 1-1 1-1 3-1 1-1 2-0 4-1 1-1
Chicago (57-25) 1-1 1-3 --- 0-2 2-0 2-3 2-0 0-2 3-1 2-0
Houston (55-27) 2-2 1-1 2-0 --- 1-3 1-1 1-3 4-1 1-1 4-1
Seattle (55-27) 3-2 1-1 0-2 3-1 --- 1-1 3-2 1-3 2-0 2-2
Cleveland (54-28) 2-0 1-3 3-2 1-1 1-1 --- 0-2 1-1 1-3 1-1
Portland (51-31) 2-3 1-1 0-2 3-1 2-3 2-0 --- 2-2 0-2 2-2
San_Antonio (49-33) 1-3 0-2 2-0 1-4 3-1 1-1 2-2 --- 1-1 3-3
Boston (48-34) 0-2 1-4 1-3 1-1 0-2 3-1 2-0 1-1 --- 0-2
Utah (47-35) 1-3 1-1 0-2 1-4 2-2 1-1 2-2 3-3 2-0 ---
Charlotte (44-38) 0-2 1-3 2-3 0-2 1-1 1-3 1-1 1-1 1-3 1-1
New_Jersey (43-39) 1-1 1-3 0-4 1-1 1-1 2-2 0-2 1-1 0-4 1-1
Atlanta (43-39) 0-2 2-2 2-2 1-1 1-1 0-5 1-1 2-0 2-2 2-0
Orlando (41-41) 0-2 2-2 1-3 1-1 0-2 2-2 2-0 0-2 2-3 1-1
Indiana (41-41) 1-1 1-3 0-5 0-2 2-0 0-4 1-1 1-1 2-2 0-2
LA_Clippers (41-41) 3-2 2-0 0-2 0-4 1-4 1-1 2-3 0-4 1-1 2-2
Detroit (40-42) 0-2 2-2 1-3 1-1 0-2 2-3 1-1 0-2 3-1 0-2
LA_Lakers (39-43) 0-5 0-2 2-0 1-3 1-4 0-2 3-2 2-2 1-1 1-3
Miami (36-46) 0-2 0-5 1-3 0-2 1-1 2-2 1-1 1-1 1-3 0-2
Denver (36-46) 1-3 1-1 1-1 2-3 1-3 1-1 1-3 1-4 0-2 2-3
Golden_State (34-48) 1-4 0-2 0-2 2-2 1-4 0-2 0-5 3-1 0-2 3-1
Milwaukee (28-54) 0-2 1-3 1-4 1-1 0-2 1-4 0-2 0-2 2-2 0-2
Philadelphia (26-56) 0-2 0-5 2-2 0-2 1-1 0-4 0-2 0-2 1-4 0-2
Sacramento (25-57) 0-5 0-2 0-2 0-4 1-4 1-1 0-5 2-2 1-1 2-2
Washington (22-60) 0-2 1-4 0-4 1-1 0-2 1-3 1-1 1-1 1-4 1-1
Minnesota (19-63) 0-4 0-2 0-2 2-4 0-4 0-2 1-3 1-4 0-2 1-4
Dallas (11-71) 0-4 0-2 0-2 1-4 1-3 0-2 0-4 0-5 0-2 0-5
Char NJ Atl Orl Ind LAC Det LAL Mia Den
Phoenix (62-20) 2-0 1-1 2-0 2-0 1-1 2-3 2-0 5-0 2-0 3-1
New_York (60-22) 3-1 3-1 2-2 2-2 3-1 0-2 2-2 2-0 5-0 1-1
Chicago (57-25) 3-2 4-0 2-2 3-1 5-0 2-0 3-1 0-2 3-1 1-1
Houston (55-27) 2-0 1-1 1-1 1-1 2-0 4-0 1-1 3-1 2-0 3-2
Seattle (55-27) 1-1 1-1 1-1 2-0 0-2 4-1 2-0 4-1 1-1 3-1
Cleveland (54-28) 3-1 2-2 5-0 2-2 4-0 1-1 3-2 2-0 2-2 1-1
Portland (51-31) 1-1 2-0 1-1 0-2 1-1 3-2 1-1 2-3 1-1 3-1
San_Antonio (49-33) 1-1 1-1 0-2 2-0 1-1 4-0 2-0 2-2 1-1 4-1
Boston (48-34) 3-1 4-0 2-2 3-2 2-2 1-1 1-3 1-1 3-1 2-0
Utah (47-35) 1-1 1-1 0-2 1-1 2-0 2-2 2-0 3-1 2-0 3-2
Charlotte (44-38) --- 2-2 2-3 3-1 0-5 1-1 4-1 1-1 2-2 1-1
New_Jersey (43-39) 2-2 --- 3-1 3-2 1-3 2-0 1-3 2-0 3-2 1-1
Atlanta (43-39) 3-2 1-3 --- 1-3 2-2 1-1 2-3 1-1 3-1 2-0
Orlando (41-41) 1-3 2-3 3-1 --- 2-2 1-1 1-3 1-1 2-3 2-0
Indiana (41-41) 5-0 3-1 2-2 2-2 --- 1-1 2-3 1-1 2-2 1-1
LA_Clippers (41-41) 1-1 0-2 1-1 1-1 1-1 --- 1-1 3-2 0-2 2-2
Detroit (40-42) 1-4 3-1 3-2 3-1 3-2 1-1 --- 1-1 1-3 1-1
LA_Lakers (39-43) 1-1 0-2 1-1 1-1 1-1 2-3 1-1 --- 0-2 3-1
Miami (36-46) 2-2 2-3 1-3 3-2 2-2 2-0 3-1 2-0 --- 2-0
Denver (36-46) 1-1 1-1 0-2 0-2 1-1 2-2 1-1 1-3 0-2 ---
Golden_State (34-48) 0-2 1-1 0-2 1-1 0-2 2-3 2-0 1-4 2-0 1-3
Milwaukee (28-54) 1-3 0-4 2-3 2-2 3-2 0-2 2-2 1-1 2-2 1-1
Philadelphia (26-56) 0-4 2-3 1-3 2-3 1-3 1-1 1-3 0-2 3-1 1-1
Sacramento (25-57) 0-2 0-2 1-1 0-2 0-2 2-3 0-2 2-3 1-1 1-3
Washington (22-60) 0-4 1-4 2-2 0-4 1-3 0-2 0-4 0-2 3-2 0-2
Minnesota (19-63) 0-2 1-1 0-2 0-2 1-1 0-4 1-1 1-3 0-2 2-3
Dallas (11-71) 0-2 0-2 1-1 1-1 1-1 0-4 1-1 1-3 0-2 1-5
GS Mil Phil Sac Wash Minn Dal
Phoenix (62-20) 4-1 2-0 2-0 5-0 2-0 4-0 4-0
New_York (60-22) 2-0 3-1 5-0 2-0 4-1 2-0 2-0
Chicago (57-25) 2-0 4-1 2-2 2-0 4-0 2-0 2-0
Houston (55-27) 2-2 1-1 2-0 4-0 1-1 4-2 4-1
Seattle (55-27) 4-1 2-0 1-1 4-1 2-0 4-0 3-1
Cleveland (54-28) 2-0 4-1 4-0 1-1 3-1 2-0 2-0
Portland (51-31) 5-0 2-0 2-0 5-0 1-1 3-1 4-0
San_Antonio (49-33) 1-3 2-0 2-0 2-2 1-1 4-1 5-0
Boston (48-34) 2-0 2-2 4-1 1-1 4-1 2-0 2-0
Utah (47-35) 1-3 2-0 2-0 2-2 1-1 4-1 5-0
Charlotte (44-38) 2-0 3-1 4-0 2-0 4-0 2-0 2-0
New_Jersey (43-39) 1-1 4-0 3-2 2-0 4-1 1-1 2-0
Atlanta (43-39) 2-0 3-2 3-1 1-1 2-2 2-0 1-1
Orlando (41-41) 1-1 2-2 3-2 2-0 4-0 2-0 1-1
Indiana (41-41) 2-0 2-3 3-1 2-0 3-1 1-1 1-1
LA_Clippers (41-41) 3-2 2-0 1-1 3-2 2-0 4-0 4-0
Detroit (40-42) 0-2 2-2 3-1 2-0 4-0 1-1 1-1
LA_Lakers (39-43) 4-1 1-1 2-0 3-2 2-0 3-1 3-1
Miami (36-46) 0-2 2-2 1-3 1-1 2-3 2-0 2-0
Denver (36-46) 3-1 1-1 1-1 3-1 2-0 3-2 5-1
Golden_State (34-48) --- 1-1 1-1 4-1 1-1 3-1 4-0
Milwaukee (28-54) 1-1 --- 2-2 1-1 1-3 1-1 2-0
Philadelphia (26-56) 1-1 2-2 --- 1-1 3-1 2-0 1-1
Sacramento (25-57) 1-4 1-1 1-1 --- 1-1 3-1 4-0
Washington (22-60) 1-1 3-1 1-3 1-1 --- 1-1 1-1
Minnesota (19-63) 1-3 1-1 0-2 1-3 1-1 --- 4-1
Dallas (11-71) 0-4 0-2 1-1 0-4 1-1 1-4 ---
HOME RECORDS:
NY Clev Phx Sea Chi Hou SA Por Bos Det
New_York (37-4) --- 2-0 1-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 2-1 2-0
Cleveland (35-6) 1-1 --- 1-0 1-0 2-1 1-0 1-0 0-1 1-1 3-0
Phoenix (35-6) 1-0 0-1 --- 2-1 0-1 1-1 2-0 2-0 1-0 1-0
Seattle (33-8) 1-0 1-0 2-0 --- 0-1 1-1 1-1 2-1 1-0 1-0
Chicago (31-10) 1-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 --- 0-1 0-1 1-0 2-0 2-0
Houston (31-10) 1-0 1-0 1-1 0-2 1-0 --- 3-0 1-1 1-0 1-0
San_Antonio (31-10) 0-1 1-0 1-1 2-0 1-0 1-1 --- 2-0 1-0 1-0
Portland (30-11) 1-0 1-0 2-1 1-1 0-1 2-0 2-0 --- 0-1 1-0
Boston (28-13) 0-2 2-0 0-1 0-1 1-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 --- 1-1
Detroit (28-13) 2-0 2-0 0-1 0-1 1-1 1-0 0-1 1-0 2-0 ---
Denver (28-13) 1-0 1-0 1-1 0-2 1-0 2-1 1-1 1-1 0-1 1-0
Utah (28-13) 1-0 1-0 1-1 1-1 0-1 0-2 2-1 1-1 1-0 1-0
Orlando (27-14) 2-0 2-0 0-1 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-1 1-0 1-2 1-1
Indiana (27-14) 1-1 0-2 0-1 1-0 0-3 0-1 1-0 0-1 2-0 1-1
LA_Clippers (27-14) 1-0 0-1 3-0 1-1 0-1 0-2 0-2 1-1 1-0 1-0
Miami (26-15) 0-3 2-0 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0
New_Jersey (26-15) 1-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-2 1-0 1-0 0-1 0-2 1-1
Atlanta (25-16) 1-1 0-3 0-1 1-0 1-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-1 1-1
Charlotte (22-19) 0-2 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 0-2 3-0
LA_Lakers (20-21) 0-1 0-1 0-2 1-2 1-0 0-2 0-2 2-1 0-1 0-1
Golden_State (19-22) 0-1 0-1 1-1 1-2 0-1 1-1 1-1 0-2 0-1 1-0
Milwaukee (18-23) 1-1 1-2 0-1 0-1 1-1 1-0 0-1 0-1 1-1 0-2
Sacramento (16-25) 0-1 1-0 0-3 1-1 0-1 0-2 1-1 0-3 1-0 0-1
Philadelphia (15-26) 0-3 0-2 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-2 1-1
Washington (15-26) 1-1 1-1 0-1 0-1 0-2 0-1 1-0 1-0 1-1 0-2
Minnesota (11-30) 0-1 0-1 0-2 0-2 0-1 1-2 1-2 0-2 0-1 1-0
Dallas (7-34) 0-1 0-1 0-2 0-2 0-1 0-3 0-2 0-2 0-1 1-0
Den Utah Orl Ind LAC Mia NJ Atl Char LAL
New_York (37-4) 1-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 0-1 2-0 2-0 1-1 1-1 1-0
Cleveland (35-6) 1-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 0-1 2-0 1-1 2-0 2-0 1-0
Phoenix (35-6) 2-0 2-0 1-0 0-1 2-0 1-0 0-1 1-0 1-0 3-0
Seattle (33-8) 1-1 1-1 1-0 0-1 3-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 2-0
Chicago (31-10) 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-1 2-1 0-1
Houston (31-10) 2-0 2-1 1-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-0 1-1
San_Antonio (31-10) 3-0 2-1 1-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 1-0 0-2
Portland (30-11) 2-0 1-1 0-1 0-1 2-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 1-1
Boston (28-13) 1-0 0-1 1-1 2-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-1 1-1 0-1
Detroit (28-13) 1-0 0-1 2-0 2-1 1-0 1-1 2-0 2-1 1-1 0-1
Denver (28-13) --- 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 1-0 1-1
Utah (28-13) 2-1 --- 1-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 0-1 0-1 0-1 2-0
Orlando (27-14) 1-0 1-0 --- 1-1 1-0 2-1 1-1 2-0 0-2 0-1
Indiana (27-14) 1-0 0-1 1-1 --- 1-0 2-0 2-0 2-0 3-0 1-0
LA_Clippers (27-14) 1-1 2-0 1-0 1-0 --- 0-1 0-1 1-0 1-0 2-1
Miami (26-15) 1-0 0-1 2-0 2-0 1-0 --- 2-1 1-1 0-2 1-0
New_Jersey (26-15) 1-0 0-1 2-1 1-1 1-0 2-0 --- 2-0 2-0 1-0
Atlanta (25-16) 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0 1-0 2-0 1-1 --- 0-2 1-0
Charlotte (22-19) 1-0 0-1 1-1 0-2 1-0 0-2 2-0 0-3 --- 0-1
LA_Lakers (20-21) 2-0 1-1 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 ---
Golden_State (19-22) 1-1 2-0 1-0 0-1 1-2 1-0 0-1 0-1 0-1 1-2
Milwaukee (18-23) 1-0 0-1 2-0 2-1 0-1 1-1 0-2 0-2 1-1 1-0
Sacramento (16-25) 1-1 1-1 0-1 0-1 2-0 1-0 0-1 1-0 0-1 1-1
Philadelphia (15-26) 1-0 0-1 2-1 1-1 0-1 2-0 1-1 0-2 0-2 0-1
Washington (15-26) 0-1 1-0 0-2 1-1 0-1 3-0 1-2 1-1 0-2 0-1
Minnesota (11-30) 2-0 1-1 0-1 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-1 0-2
Dallas (7-34) 1-2 0-3 1-0 1-0 0-2 0-1 0-1 1-0 0-1 1-1
GS Mil Sac Phil Wash Minn Dal
New_York (37-4) 1-0 2-0 1-0 2-0 3-0 1-0 1-0
Cleveland (35-6) 1-0 2-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-0 1-0
Phoenix (35-6) 3-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 1-0 2-0 2-0
Seattle (33-8) 2-0 1-0 3-0 1-0 1-0 2-0 1-1
Chicago (31-10) 1-0 3-0 1-0 1-1 2-0 1-0 1-0
Houston (31-10) 1-1 1-0 2-0 1-0 0-1 2-1 1-1
San_Antonio (31-10) 0-2 1-0 1-1 1-0 1-0 2-0 3-0
Portland (30-11) 3-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0
Boston (28-13) 1-0 1-1 1-0 2-1 3-0 1-0 1-0
Detroit (28-13) 0-1 0-2 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-0 1-0
Denver (28-13) 2-0 1-0 2-0 1-0 1-0 3-0 3-0
Utah (28-13) 1-1 1-0 1-1 1-0 1-0 3-0 2-0
Orlando (27-14) 1-0 2-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-0 1-0
Indiana (27-14) 1-0 1-1 1-0 2-0 2-0 0-1 1-0
LA_Clippers (27-14) 1-1 1-0 3-0 0-1 1-0 2-0 2-0
Miami (26-15) 0-1 1-1 1-0 1-1 2-0 1-0 1-0
New_Jersey (26-15) 0-1 2-0 1-0 2-1 2-0 0-1 1-0
Atlanta (25-16) 1-0 1-2 1-0 1-1 1-1 1-0 1-0
Charlotte (22-19) 1-0 2-0 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-0 1-0
LA_Lakers (20-21) 2-0 1-0 2-1 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0
Golden_State (19-22) --- 1-0 1-1 1-0 1-0 1-1 2-0
Milwaukee (18-23) 1-0 --- 0-1 1-1 1-1 1-0 1-0
Sacramento (16-25) 0-3 0-1 --- 1-0 0-1 2-0 2-0
Philadelphia (15-26) 1-0 1-1 1-0 --- 1-1 1-0 0-1
Washington (15-26) 1-0 2-0 0-1 0-2 --- 0-1 0-1
Minnesota (11-30) 0-2 1-0 1-1 0-1 0-1 --- 3-0
Dallas (7-34) 0-2 0-1 0-2 0-1 0-1 1-1 ---
|
| 10.253 | nice stats | MKFSA::LONG | It's just a matter of time, | Mon Apr 26 1993 19:57 | 5 |
| Mike, I was going to put Tommy's classic quote about time, but I'll
leave it to the master.
billl
|
| 10.255 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | If you see Kay | Mon Apr 26 1993 21:12 | 1 |
| You must be a fast and accurate typist Mike.
|
| 10.256 | I have a life, thank you | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 21:46 | 1 |
| No, I just know where the stats are on the network.
|
| 10.257 | playoff team records | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 21:50 | 28 |
| Here are the playoff team records against each other; ranked by overall record
against the other 15 playoff teams.
Rank Overall % West % Home % Road % East % Home % Road %
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 NYK 31-15 .673 9-7 .562 7-1 .875 2-6 .250 22-8 .733 12-2 .857 10-5 .667
4 HOU 30-16 .652 19-11 .633 10-6 .625 9-5 .642 11-5 .687 8-0 1.000 3-5 .375
1 PHO 30-18 .625 20-12 .625 14-2 .875 6-10.375 10-6 .625 4-4 .500 6-2 .750
3 CHI 29-18 .617 9-7 .562 4-4 .500 5-3 .625 20-11 .645 9-7 .562 11-4 .733
6 CLE 28-18 .608 9-7 .562 6-2 .750 3-5 .375 19-11 .633 11-4 .733 8-7 .533
5 SEA 27-21 .562 20-12 .625 12-4 .750 8-8 .500 7-9 .437 6-2 .750 1-7 .125
7 POR 24-24 .500 16-16 .500 11-5 .687 5-11.312 8-8 .500 4-4 .500 4-4 .500
8 SAS 23-24 .489 16-15 .516 10-5 .667 6-10.375 7-9 .437 6-2 .750 1-7 .125
9 BOS 22-23 .488 6-10 .375 5-3 .625 1-7 .125 16-13 .551 9-5 .642 7-8 .466
10 UTA 22-25 .468 14-17 .451 9-6 .600 5-11.312 8-8 .500 4-4 .500 4-4 .500
13 ATL 21-25 .456 9-7 .562 7-1 .875 2-6 .250 12-18 .400 6-9 .400 6-9 .400
14 IND 20-26 .434 7-9 .437 4-4 .500 3-5 .375 13-17 .433 10-6 .625 3-11.214
12 NJN 18-26 .409 9-7 .562 5-3 .625 4-4 .500 9-19 .321 7-7 .500 2-12.142
15 LAC 18-30 .375 11-21 .343 9-7 .562 2-14.125 7-9 .437 5-3 .625 2-6 .250
16 LAL 16-32 .333 10-22 .312 5-11.312 5-11.312 6-10 .375 3-5 .375 3-5 .375
11 CHA 15-32 .319 6-10 .375 3-5 .375 3-5 .375 9-22 .290 4-11 .266 5-11.312
It's also interesting to note that the East and West playoff teams are dead
even against each other, despite the East Conference beating the Western
Conference during the regular season.
{and for those that still believe in doing things by hand, this was
extracted from the previous list using a C program}
|
| 10.258 | | PFSVAX::JACOB | Nuthin much to say these days.(8^(* | Mon Apr 26 1993 21:55 | 13 |
|
>> <<< Note 10.256 by FRETZ::HEISER "break this ball and chain" >>>
>> -< I have a life, thank you >-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nobody that listens to Rush Limbaugh and takes what he says as GOSPEL
"Has a Life".
Schnortt Schitt Schlepps
JaKe
|
| 10.259 | bark up Rush's tree, not mine | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Mon Apr 26 1993 22:25 | 4 |
| > Nobody that listens to Rush Limbaugh and takes what he says as GOSPEL
> "Has a Life".
you're right Jake, but this has nothing to do with me.
|
| 10.260 | | PFSVAX::JACOB | Nuthin much to say these days.(8^(* | Mon Apr 26 1993 23:48 | 8 |
| C.mon Mike, you mean to tell me that you're NOT one of the faithful
followers of Rush, the legend in HIS own mind???
I sorta find that hard to believe, if that's what you're trying to tell
me.
JaKe
|
| 10.261 | people are fallible | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Tue Apr 27 1993 03:51 | 3 |
| What's the matter, Jake? Does being wrong bruise your ego? I don't
faithfully follow any person and it doesn't look well for you to be
pigeonholing people into your vision of your favorite stereotype.
|
| 10.262 | | PFSVAX::JACOB | Nuthin much to say these days.(8^(* | Tue Apr 27 1993 04:08 | 6 |
| Nah, on bruises here, just thought I had ya pegged properly, SO, I
don't. No skin offa my ass, know what I mean??
JaKe
|
| 10.263 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Don Cherry and Seinfeld Roolz | Tue Apr 27 1993 14:29 | 4 |
| re .261
\One of the funniest notes of the year.
JD
|
| 10.264 | my last on this | FRETZ::HEISER | break this ball and chain | Tue Apr 27 1993 15:35 | 8 |
| > Nah, on bruises here, just thought I had ya pegged properly, SO, I
> don't. No skin offa my ass, know what I mean??
No problem. Under this medium, it would probably surprise many how
little we really know about one another. This is when "pegging"
becomes dangerous.
JD, I'm glad it made you laugh.
|
| 10.265 | | CAM3::WAY | I'd have had to miss the dance | Tue Apr 27 1993 16:41 | 1 |
| I had a pair of pegged pants once.....
|
| 10.266 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is crawling!!! | Tue Apr 27 1993 17:21 | 3 |
| 'Saw
Peg did what to your pants once?
|
| 10.267 | | CAMONE::WAY | I'd have had to miss the dance | Tue Apr 27 1993 17:37 | 7 |
| >Peg did what to your pants once?
No, you misheard what I allegedly said. I said "I pantsed Peg once"
'Saw
|
| 10.268 | Williams sez he wants to go over 100 nexted season | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Tue Apr 27 1993 19:09 | 9 |
| Consecutive free throw streaks:
1) Micheal Williams 84 (and counting!)
2) Calvin Murphy 78
3) Mark Price 77
4) Ricky Pierce 75
5) Larry Bird 71
NAZZ
|
| 10.269 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Tue Apr 27 1993 19:13 | 4 |
|
I thought Williams missed after 84.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.270 | title trivia | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Wed Apr 28 1993 14:24 | 10 |
| For over a decade, the #1 or #2 road team (record-wise) has taken the
NBA title. What is the last team to win the championship without being
one of the best road teams? (actually they had a losing road record)
The '78 Washington Bullets
Who are the #1 and #2 road teams this year?
1. Phoenix Suns
2. Chicago Bulls
|
| 10.271 | thugs! | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Wed Apr 28 1993 16:28 | 11 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Divac fined $5,000 by NBA
LOS ANGELES (UPI) -- The National Basketball Association Tuesday fined
Los Angeles Lakers center Vlade Divac $5,000 for flagrantly fouling
Seattle guard Nate McMillan during the third quarter of last Friday's
122-93 loss to the SuperSonics.
NBA Vice President, Operations Rod Thorn announced the fine.
Divac was ejected from the game following the foul. The ejection
carries with it an additional $250 fine.
|
| 10.272 | Mavs | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Wed Apr 28 1993 16:33 | 5 |
| It's interesting that the Mavs only won 4 games before signing Jimmy
Jackson, then went 7-14 after signing him. They might have won 20
games with him on the team all season. Now they'll get another lottery
pick to add to their roster. Quinn Buckner will at least have some
talent to work with.
|
| 10.273 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Det. Teamsters:92-93 DEChoop champs | Wed Apr 28 1993 16:40 | 4 |
| Should probably give your source for the stats Mike, to cover legal
problems.
Williams went 10-for-10 in his last game.
|
| 10.274 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Wed Apr 28 1993 17:19 | 33 |
| Ah, the playoffs where the talent and coaching puts college hoops
in it's proper place, 2nd.
EASTERN CONFERENCE
#1 New York over #8 Indiana in 3
Riley Inc. (like Murder Inc.), is on a roll.
#2 Chicago over #7 Atlanta in 4
His Airness too much for 'Nique At Night.
#3 Cleveland over #6 New Jersey in 3
Even Daly can't arouse neutered Nets.
#5 Charlotte over #4 Boston in 4
Bright spot is NAZZ can make May 13th GitTogether.
WESTERN CONFERENCE
#1 Phoenix over #8 Los Angeles in 3
The Rich and Famous are now at Madison Square Garden.
#2 Houston over #7 Los Angeles in 4
Trouble in Tinseltown, no BandWagon to hop on.
#6 Utah over #3 Seattle in 5
Supes' solos can't match Salt Lake's Jazz combo.
#4 Portland over #5 San Antonio in 4
First Mate Robinson asks John Lucas, where is the love?
/Don
|
| 10.275 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Det. Teamsters:92-93 DEChoop champs | Wed Apr 28 1993 18:29 | 2 |
| Buckner may have Roy Tarpley back at that point to play or trade.
|
| 10.276 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Wed Apr 28 1993 18:30 | 1 |
| Tarpley has asked to be traded to San Antonio to be with John Lucas.
|
| 10.277 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Det. Teamsters:92-93 DEChoop champs | Wed Apr 28 1993 18:41 | 2 |
| Makes sense... should be able to get a decent pick or player for him.
|
| 10.278 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Wed Apr 28 1993 22:25 | 23 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA announces deal with NBC
NEW YORK (UPI) -- The National Basketball Association and NBC Sports
Wednesday announced a broadcasting agreement that will keep NBA games on
the network through the 1997-98 season.
The announcement was made by NBA Commissioner David Stern and NBC
Sports President Dick Ebersol following a meeting of the NBA Board of
Governors.
The NBA and NBC are currently in the third year of a four-year
agreement that began with the 1990-91 season.
Under the new agreement, which begins with the 1994-95 season, the
NBA is guaranteed a minimum payment that exceeds its current contract
but is also designed at a level to insure profitability for NBC. The
agreement also provides that NBC and the NBA will share equally in
revenues that are achieved through advertising sales over a specified
amount.
NBC will carry a minimum of 25 regular season games as well as up to
28 playoff games. All games of the NBA Finals will be seen in prime
time.
``NBA Inside Stuff,'' the league-produced weekly magazine show, will
be extended to 52 weeks a year after the 1993-94 season.
|
| 10.279 | 'ats a No No | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Apr 29 1993 12:40 | 14 |
|
Yabbut this is really gonna urinate the NY Knicks. The NBA (Rod
Thorne?) announced a new policy on fighting for the playoffs.
Seems that if a player "throws" a punch, he's gonna get fined and
get a one game suspension. If'n the punch lands, he steel gets fined
and will get a one-to-five game suspension.
Methinks it's time to mebbe watch some hokey instead.
I remain,
reporting from the non-boxing position
Kev
|
| 10.280 | new fighting rules | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Thu Apr 29 1993 16:30 | 21 |
| Actually this may favor the Knicks. It's the other teams that
*usually* start the fights in retaliation of the Knicks' cheap shots.
Of course with the Knick's bench depth, they can't afford to fight.
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA imposes new penalties for playoff fighting
NEW YORK (UPI) -- The NBA will impose stiffer penalties for fighting
during the playoffs, the league announced Wednesday.
The announcement was made by NBA Vice President of Operations Rod
Thorn following a meeting of the league's Competition Committee.
The new rules will mean that any player who throws a punch in a
playoff game will be ejected and suspended for at least one game and
also fined an appropriate amount. Any player connecting with a punch
will be ejected and fined and also face a suspension of one to five
games.
Teams will be fined an amount equal to the total sum of their
players' fines. Additionally, any player leaving the bench area during a
fight will be fined $2,500, up from $500, and that player's team will be
fined $5,000 for each of its players who leave the bench area.
|
| 10.281 | round 1 predictions | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Thu Apr 29 1993 16:31 | 108 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (DEAN SCHABNER, UPI Sports Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.top
Subject: NBA Playoff Preview and Predictions
The second season is when the NBA is supposed to become competitive,
but this year the early rounds seem as much a prelude as the first 82
games.
Until Houston meets Phoenix in the Western Conference Finals and
Chicago meets New York in the East, there seems to be little question
how things will go. But then, that's why they play the games.
The playoffs get underway Thursday with two games in the Eastern
Conference and two in the West.
In the East, Cleveland hosts New Jersey and Boston will take on
Charlotte.
In the West, the Los Angeles Clippers visit the Houston Rockets and
the San Antonio Spurs travel to Portland to face the Trail Blazers.
Here's a breakdown of the first-round matchups and some predictions:
Eastern Conference
New York vs. Indiana
If what point guard Doc Rivers says is true -- that the Knicks don't
remember victories, only losses -- then the Pacers had better beware.
Indiana handed New York its only loss over the last 12 games of the
season. The team Indiana can expect to see will be toughened by four
days of rest, and primed with Coach Pat Riley's motivational speeches.
Center Patrick Ewing wants a championship, and he and the rest of the
Knicks know Riley is a man whose won a few. He will grill them on how
the Pacers managed to beat them (Rik Smits and Reggie Miller hitting
from outside), and it won't happen again. Miller will be trying to get
the vision of Knicks guard John Starks' hand out of his face days after
Indiana is on summer vacation.
Prediction: Knicks in three.
Chicago vs. Atlanta
The Bulls keep saying they like the underdog role. Well, they're
going to have to wait till the meet New York to play it. The Hawks, with
Dominique Wilkins to make Scottie Pippen work at both ends of the court
and Stacy Augmon to harrass both Pippen and Michael Jordan, will give
Chicago more trouble than it wants in the first round, especially with
New York and Cleveland rolling into the second round. But the Bulls have
too much depth, too much experience and too much Jordan to bow out to a
team that gives up an average of 108 points per game.
Prediction: Bulls in five.
Cleveland vs. New Jersey
The Nets were once a team to be feared in the playoffs, but point
guard Kenny Anderson's broken wrist and back-up center Chris Dudley's
broken foot changed that. Now the Nets are fighting among themselves.
Dudley will be able to get an early start in the free agent market,
because the Cavaliers will sweep New Jersey. Even with forward Larry
Nance slowed by a broken finger on his left hand, Cleveland is too
finely tuned to lose to the short-handed Nets. But for an 8-11 start,
Cleveland would have been in the hunt for the best record in the East.
The Cavaliers come into the playoffs having won nine of their last 10.
New Jersey has done just the reverse and will stumble out.
Prediction: Cavs in three.
Boston vs. Charlotte
The Hornets had an up-and-down season, which is no surprise on a team
whose veteran leadership comes from a second-year player. Though since
that sophomore is Larry Johnson, when the Hornets have been up, they've
been way up. Among Charlotte's season-ending streak of five straight
wins was the victory over Chicago that took the Bulls out of contention
for the best record in the East. Seems like a game the Bulls might have
wanted, right? Boston has the playoff experience, but Johnson (22
points, 10 rebounds per game), rookie Alonzo Mourning (21 points, 10
rebounds) and the Hornets are hungry and strong.
Prediction: Hornets in four.
Western Conference
Phoenix vs. LA Lakers
The Lakers are going to be making some changes this summer. Even
without point guard Kevin Johnson, the Suns are far too much for the
Lakers to handle. Phoenix is used to playing short handed -- Johnson and
forwards Cedric Ceballos and Richard Dumas all missed extended periods
this season, but the Suns kept winning. With Charles Barkley and forward
Dan Majerle, Phoenix has two of the toughest men under 6-6 in the NBA.
And the Lakers have A.C. Green and a lot of guys who got too used to
Magic Johnson to get them the ball on the break. The only question about
the Suns is who they'll face in the second round.
Prediction: Suns in three.
Houston vs. LA Clippers
The Rockets beat up on the Clippers in all of their four meetings
this season, and that trend will continue in the playoffs. Los Angeles
has nobody who can handle Hakeem Olajuwon, and the Rockets will not miss
guard Vernon Maxwell, who is out with a broken wrist. The Clippers are
talented, but forward Danny Manning and Coach Larry Brown have had
enough of one another, and that dissension has infected the whole team.
Houston rookie forward Robert Horry's sore knees will feel better after
three days rest, but Olajuwon alone may be enough to chase the Clippers.
Prediction: Rockets in four.
Seattle vs. Utah
This may be the toughest of the first-round matchups. Seattle has the
strength and size to battle Karl Malone, but Malone has point guard John
Stockton to get him the ball where he wants it. Sonics Coach George Karl
may have alienated forwards Shawn Kemp and Derrick McKey, and without
their enthusiastic contributions, the Sonics will be knocked out early.
Utah has plenty of playoff experience, but offseason dealings to
strengthen the team have only whittled it down to the core of Karl
Malone, Stockton and Jeff Malone. Seattle, with six players who average
more than 13 points a game, should have enough weapons to overcome the
Jazz trio.
Prediction: Sonics in five.
Portland vs. San Antonio
The Trail Blazers have played without Clyde Drexler enough now that
they don't seem to miss him as much as they once did. In his absence,
forward Cliff Robinson and point guard Rod Strickland have increased
their roles. John Lucas will get the Spurs up for the playoffs, but what
Jerry Tarkanian kept saying is still true. There is not enough talent
around center David Robinson. Strickland will negate Spurs point guard
Avery Johnson's quickness and Portland has enough big bodies to slow
Robinson.
Prediction: Blazers in five.
|
| 10.282 | draft order | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Thu Apr 29 1993 16:32 | 72 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Draft Order
NEW YORK (UPI) -- Selection order for the June 30 NBA draft.
(Picks 1 thru 11 to be determined by lottery; listing teams in May
23 lottery and their chances in lottery)
Dallas 11
Minnesota 10
Washington 9
Sacramento 8
Philadelphia 7
Milwaukee 6
Golden State 5
Denver 4
Miami 3
a-Detroit 2
Orlando 1
Remainder of First Round
12. LA Lakers
13. LA Clippers
14. Indiana
15. Atlanta
16. New Jersey
17. Charlotte
18. Utah
19. Boston
20. Charlotte from San Antonio
21. Portland
22. Cleveland
23. Seatlle
24. Houston
25. Chicago
26. Orlando from New York
27. Phoenix
Second Round
28. Dallas
29. Minnesota
30. Washington
31. Sacramento
32. Philadelphia
33. Dallas from Milwaukee
34. Golden State
35. b-Miami or Detroit from Miami OR Washington from Denver
36. b-Miami or Detroit from MIami OR Washington from Denver
37. LA Lakers
38. Washington from Detroit
39. Indiana
40. Atlanta from LA Clippers
41. Chicago from Orlando
42. Seattle from New Jersey (via Orlando)
43. Denver from Atlanta
44. Sacramento from Charlotte
45. Utah
46. Houston from Boston (via New Jersey and Cleveland)
47. San Antonio
48. Portland
49. Phoenix from Cleveland
50. Houston
51. b-Seattle
52. d-Seattle from Chicago
53. LA Clippers from New York
54. Phoenix
a-This choice will be conveyed to Detroit unless it is No.
1 through 5 following lottery, in which case Miami has the option to
keep this pick, exercisable up to June 23, 1993, and convey to Detroit
its first-round choice in 1994 and its second-round choice in 1993.
b-The order of this pick will be determined after May 23 Lottery
c-Seattle must convey to Indiana its 1993 or 1994 second-round
choice exercisable by Seattle prior to June 1, 1993.
d-If Seattle reaches the Western Conference finals in 1993,
it will convey this pick acquired from Chicago to Sacramento.
|
| 10.283 | Halllloooooooooooo? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Apr 29 1993 16:50 | 15 |
|
Yabbut speaking of the draft,
Wasn't there some 7 foot 6" guy from Utah who left for his "mission" a
few years ago? I heard that he's declared himself eligible for the
draft and there was some specualtion on the radion (i think WEEI) that
he might be a lottery pick.
I don't remember his name but is it realistic to expect a tall player
who hasn't played in 2+ years to be in the top 11 thisted year?
I remain,
usually at the #1 position when we line up :*(
Kev
|
| 10.284 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Apr 29 1993 16:56 | 4 |
| Kev, I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that when he first announced
eligibility. There's no doubt he'll be a lottery pick (you can't teach
height), and quite a few experts that I heard when the announcement was
made have him projected as the top pick in the draft.
|
| 10.285 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:07 | 8 |
|
I think his name was Shawn Bradley.
But I could be wrong....
Chappy
|
| 10.286 | big but talented | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:09 | 1 |
| Yeah, it's Shawn Bradley. I've heard many scouts say he's a #1 pick.
|
| 10.287 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | The idea that nothing matters... | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:23 | 8 |
|
Them Scouts is stupid then.....Sure Bradley showed alot of promise his
freshman year with big block numbers and points but he played in the
WAC. I realize the WAC is rated above the Big East on the KNorrometer
but come on #1. If I'm pickin I'm tossing names like Mashburn and
Rodgers and Robinson around in my head....
mke
|
| 10.288 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Det. Teamsters:92-93 DEChoop champs | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:41 | 6 |
| Depends on team needs. If the Celts went first, you know they would
jump at a chance to have a young center come in and help them.
Pistons look like they're picking 9-10 this year... let's see, Bradley,
Rider, Mashburn, Hardaway, Rogers, Chaney, who else is out there?
|
| 10.289 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:47 | 19 |
|
Yabbut Walt, how could you forget Hurley? ;^)
Mebbe Detriot will take him?
MikeC, I agree with you. From what I recall this Bradley was a stick,
of the JD variety and I can't comprehend him not being busted like a
pretzel in the NBA. Granted, at 7'6" there are certain appealing
aspects but to talk about a guy who hasn't played in 2 years as the #1
pick sounds a lot like somebody snuck into 'Saw's schrooms.
Does San Antonio have the most tickets in the lottery? If they get the
#1 slot, would they pick Bradley? I seem to recall they have a center
;^)
I remain,
thinking the lottery is on Sunday. Right?
Kev
|
| 10.290 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:50 | 6 |
| RE: No thrown or landed punches...
What a girlymon decision! NBA stands for No B****[Filberts]
Anymore! Thank God for hokey!
/Don
|
| 10.291 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is crawling!!! | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:50 | 1 |
| Sean Bradley is so skinny, he makes Manute Bol look like Charles Barkley...
|
| 10.292 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Thu Apr 29 1993 18:07 | 9 |
| 25. Chicago
26. Orlando from New York
27. Phoenix
I think the last picks of the round can change depending on
who makes it to the finals.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.293 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Thu Apr 29 1993 18:29 | 15 |
|
I think Bradley gained around 40 lbs during his 2 year mission stint. I was
kind of surprised at this seeing as my brother probably lost 25 lbs on his.
Bradley is a rare creature in that he's 7' 6 and he relatively co-ordinated.
He's not a stiff like manute or Eaton. He can run the floor relatively well
and he's a know shot blocker. In the genetic mutation led game of the NBA he's
a bonafide freak at seven feet six inches. He'll be able to clog up the
middle and he'll probably develop into a decent rebounder/scorer....
He'll go to the first team that lacks a center...You'll notice that most
of the teams in the lottery fit that description....
Metz
|
| 10.294 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu Apr 29 1993 19:34 | 8 |
|
Bradley is for real. He doesn't have to look that good to be extremely
effective at that size. You've got to have him up there with Mashburn,
Webber, Cheaney, etc., although if I had #1 I'd still probably go
with the sure thing in Webber.
glenn
|
| 10.295 | | METSNY::francus | ABP | Thu Apr 29 1993 19:46 | 3 |
| Has Webber filed for the draft??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.296 | Webber hasn't declared yet | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Thu Apr 29 1993 19:46 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.297 | :-)))))) | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Thu Apr 29 1993 19:55 | 6 |
|
He should have filed when he was 17, or he's breaking the law!
Chappy
|
| 10.298 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Apr 29 1993 20:20 | 12 |
| 10.300 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Fri Apr 30 1993 16:14 | 4 |
| Maybe Webber doesn't know how much time he has left before having
to file for the draft...
/Don
|
| 10.301 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Fri Apr 30 1993 16:38 | 7 |
|
Hey /Don maybe he should call a timeout and ask someone? :-)
Chappy
|
| 10.302 | complete Los Wages title odds | FRETZ::HEISER | debt free | Fri Apr 30 1993 20:18 | 18 |
| Team Odds
------------------
Suns 2-1
Bulls 7-2
Knicks 7-2
Cavaliers 7-1
Rockets 8-1
Sonics 8-1
Blazers 20-1
Spurs 25-1
Jazz 30-1
Celtics 40-1
Hawks 100-1
Hornets 100-1
Clippers 100-1
Nets 100-1
Pacers 150-1
Lakers 200-1
|
| 10.303 | keep the faith | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 03 1993 20:38 | 27 |
| I just remembered that I forgot to post my picks. Slasher seems to be
the only other entry. The rest of you better hurry before round 1 is
over.
EASTERN CONFERENCE
#1 New York over #8 Indiana in 4
#2 Chicago over #7 Atlanta in 4
#3 Cleveland over #6 New Jersey in 5
#4 Boston over #5 Charlotte in 5
#1 New York over #4 Boston in 6
#2 Chicago over #3 Cleveland in 6
#2 Chicago over #1 New York in 6
WESTERN CONFERENCE
#1 Phoenix over #8 Los Angeles in 5
#2 Houston over #7 Los Angeles in 5
#3 Seattle over #6 Utah in 5
#4 Portland over #5 San Antonio in 5
#1 Phoenix over #4 Portland in 5
#3 Seattle over #2 Houston in 7
#1 Phoenix over #3 Seattle in 6
Phoenix over Chicago in 7.
|
| 10.304 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Mon May 03 1993 20:42 | 21 |
| NY in 3
Chicago in 3
Cleveland in 5
Charlotte in 4
LA in 4
Houston in 4
Seattle in 3
Portland in 5
Houston over LA
Seattle over Portland
NY over Charlotte
Cleveland over Chicago
NY over Cleveland
Seattle over Houston
NY over Seattle
|
| 10.305 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 03 1993 20:44 | 5 |
| > Houston over LA
> Seattle over Portland
The winner of the #1 vs. #8 plays the winner of #4 vs. #5. L.A. would
play Portland in this case.
|
| 10.306 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Mon May 03 1993 20:46 | 7 |
| Oh, I assumed they would reseed them...
Portland over LA
Houston over Seattle
Houston over Portland.
|
| 10.307 | Bulls in a cakewalk 3 peat | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Mon May 03 1993 20:48 | 32 |
|
HERES MINE........
NY over INDIANA in 3
Chicago over Atlanta in 3
Boston over Charlotte in 5
Cleveland over NJ in 4
NY over Boston in 5
Chicago over Clevland in 6
Chicago over NY in 6
West
LA over Phoenix in 3 :-)
Houston over Clipps in 5
Seattle over Utah in 5
San Antonio over Portland in 4
San Antonio over LA in 5
Seattle over Houston in 4
Seattle over SA in 5
Chicago over Seattle in 4. (Eastern BBall rules again)
Chappy
|
| 10.308 | lost first 2 at home and still won the series? | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 03 1993 22:05 | 5 |
| Back in the opening round of the '84 playoffs, didn't New Jersey upset
Philadelphia by winning all 3 games on the road? This was when
Michael Ray Richardson rose to fame.
Mike
|
| 10.309 | | APPLE::FRANCUS | ABP | Mon May 03 1993 22:39 | 33 |
| re: .308
No team has ever lost the first 2 games at home in a 5 game series and
come back to win the series. Since the NBA went to the current playoff
system in 1984 no #8 seed has beaten a #1 seed in a series.
NY over Indiana in 3
Charlotte over Boston in 4
Chicago over Atlanta in 3
Cleveland over NJ in 5
NY over Charlotte in 6
Chicago over Cleveland in 7
NY over Chicago in 7
LA over Phoenix in 4
Houston over Clippers in 5
Portland over SA in 5
Seattle over Utah in 5
Seattle over Houston in 6
LA over Portland in 6
Seattle over LA in 5
NY over Seattle in 6
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.310 | no and yes | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 03 1993 22:46 | 16 |
| > No team has ever lost the first 2 games at home in a 5 game series and
> come back to win the series.
That should read, no team has lost the first 2 games and has comeback
to take the series. In 1984, the first year of the current round 1
format, the Michael Ray Richardson-led Nets upset the defending
champion 76ers by winning all games on the road. They lost their first
2 home games, which were games 3 and 4.
>Since the NBA went to the current playoff system in 1984 no #8 seed has
>beaten a #1 seed in a series.
True. And before this weekend, the #8 seed was 0-41 vs. the #1 seed
since 1984.
Mike
|
| 10.311 | Still aren't sure how some of these trades came to be | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Tue May 04 1993 16:00 | 60 |
|
1993 NBA Draft
Selection order for the June 30 NBA draft, as of May 3. (Picks 1 thru 11 to be
determined by lottery; teams in May 23 lottery shown with their lottery chances)
FIRST ROUND SECOND ROUND
1. Dallas (11) 28. Dallas
2. Minnesota (10) 29. Minnesota
3. Washington (9) 30. Washington
4. Sacramento (8) 31. Sacramento
5. Philadelphia (7) 32. Philadelphia
6. Milwaukee (6) 33. d-Dallas from Milwaukee
7. Golden State (5) 34. Golden State
8. Denver (4) 35. e-Miami, or Detroit from Miami, OR
9. a-Miami (3) Washington from Denver
10. Detroit (2) 36. e-Miami, or Detroit from Miami, OR
11. Orlando (1) Washington from Denver
12. LA Lakers 37. LA Lakers
13. LA Clippers 38. f-Washington from Detroit
14. Indiana 39. Indiana
15. Atlanta 40. g-Atlanta from LA Clippers
16. New Jersey 41. h-Chicago from Orlando
17. Charlotte 42. Seattle from New Jersey (via Orlando)
18. Utah 43. Denver from Atlanta
19. Boston 44. Sacramento from Charlotte
20. b-Charlotte from SAN 45. Utah
21. Portland 46. i-Houston from Boston (via NJ and CLE)
22. Cleveland 47. San Antonio
23. Seattle 48. Portland
24. Houston 49. Phoenix from Cleveland
25. Chicago 50. Houston
26. c-Orlando from New York 51. j-Seattle
27. Phoenix 52. k-Seattle from Chicago
53. l-LA Clippers from New York
54. Phoenix
a - This choice will be conveyed to Detroit unless it is No.1 through 5 after
lottery, in which case Miami has the option (until June 23) to keep pick
and give DET its 1994 first-round choice and its 1993 second-round choice.
b - Part of the JR Reid-Sidney Green deal.
c - Compensation in the 3-way New York, LA Clippers, Orlando deal of last year.
d - Pat Durham was traded by Dallas to Milwaukee for this pick in 1989.
e - The order of this pick to be determined after Lottery; see (a) for Detroit/
Miami trade; Denver traded this pick to move up in 1st round of 1991 draft.
f - Darrell Walker traded from the Bullets to Detroit last year for this pick.
g - Part of Doc Rivers trade to the Clippers in 1991.
h - Litterial Green trade at draft last year.
i - Second half of John Bagley trade from Boston to NJ - don't know how
Houston figured into this mix.
j - Seattle must convey to Indiana its 1993 or 1994 second-round choice,
exercisable by Seattle prior to June 1, 1993.
k - If Seattle reaches the Western Conference finals in 1993, it will give this
pick from Chicago (for not taking BJ Armstrong in 1988 draft) to Sacramento.
l - Knicks picked up Clippers #2 pick last year (Joe Wylie) for this choice.
* - I have no idea how or when these picks were traded, or for what. If anyone
has any information on them, I'd appreciate it.
|
| 10.312 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Tue May 04 1993 16:38 | 7 |
| You're fight about the '84 Nets Mike. Joisey won the first
two games in Philly, lost the next two at home then won the fifth
game back in the City of Brotherly Cheesesteak. I remember it well
'cuz SnideAir always said that Joisey "handed" the title to the
Celtics that year.
/Don
|
| 10.313 | | 3335::francus | ABP | Tue May 04 1993 16:49 | 5 |
|
Not sure what the difference is between my statement and Mike's reformulation
of it.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.314 | clarification | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 04 1993 16:55 | 9 |
| TCM, no team has comeback after losing the *first 2* games of a 5-game
series (regardless of whose court it was on).
I've seen lots of reports stating that no team has comeback after
losing it's first 2 *home* games. This is wrong as proven by the Nets
in '84. Their first 2 home games were games 3 and 4, but they still
lost their first 2 home games (picking a nit).
Mike
|
| 10.315 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue May 04 1993 17:03 | 6 |
| 10.316 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Tue May 04 1993 17:14 | 2 |
| Which ones Nazz?
|
| 10.317 | how quickly they forget, I would to if I were a Celtics fan | 3335::francus | ABP | Tue May 04 1993 17:29 | 14 |
|
re:.314
Ah excuuse me, but the 1990 Knicks lost games 1 and 2 against the Celtics
in Boston and came back to win the best of 5 series. 2 other teams have
done this.
To be excruciatingly precise:
No team which has lost the first 2 games of a 5 game series, and those 2
games were on its home court, has come back to win the series.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.318 | we're in agreement | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 04 1993 19:08 | 13 |
| >Ah excuuse me, but the 1990 Knicks lost games 1 and 2 against the Celtics
>in Boston and came back to win the best of 5 series. 2 other teams have
>done this.
Exactly, and NY didn't lose on it's home floor. The '87 Warriors did
this to the Jazz as well.
>To be excruciatingly precise:
>
>No team which has lost the first 2 games of a 5 game series, and those 2
>games were on its home court, has come back to win the series.
Correct.
|
| 10.319 | | 3335::francus | ABP | Tue May 04 1993 19:10 | 7 |
|
Wasn't there a #7 seed a few years back that knocked off the #2 seed in
the first round??
I seem to recall Golden State pulled an upset in 1991.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.320 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 04 1993 19:27 | 8 |
| >Wasn't there a #7 seed a few years back that knocked off the #2 seed in
>the first round??
Well if the Celts won their division in '90, then I bet it was NY.
>I seem to recall Golden State pulled an upset in 1991.
Yeah they knocked off the Spurs in round 1.
|
| 10.321 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Tue May 04 1993 19:32 | 2 |
| It was done in 87 and 89 too..
|
| 10.322 | | 3335::francus | ABP | Tue May 04 1993 19:34 | 5 |
|
The Knicks-Celtics is not what I had in mind; Knicks and Celtics had either the
same regular season record, or the Celtics were one game better.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.323 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 04 1993 19:41 | 6 |
| According to my source for 36.487 (paragraph 1), only 3 teams have
rebounded from 0-2 in a 5-game series:
'90 Knicks over Boston
'87 Warriors over Utah
'56 Pistons over ?
|
| 10.324 | Curoius second round acquisitions | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Wed May 05 1993 15:25 | 4 |
| Walt, there are three or four deals in the second round that I couldn't
find information about even in the media guides of the teams involved!
NAZZ
|
| 10.325 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 05 1993 19:07 | 1 |
| Chris Webber has called a press conference for today.
|
| 10.326 | fyi - could Houston be next? | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 05 1993 19:11 | 6 |
| Since 1987, the Western Conference #2 seed (Midwest Division winner)
has been upset in the first round every other year:
1987 Sonics over Mavs 3-1
1989 Warriors over Jazz 3-0
1991 Warriors over Spurs 3-1
|
| 10.327 | Is this a "film at 11 thang" Mike??? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Wed May 05 1993 19:40 | 3 |
| And what did Webber say?
NAZZ
|
| 10.328 | Webber: I'm outta here | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Wed May 05 1993 19:55 | 4 |
| Webber has announced for the NBA. "I'm ready for the next level" or
something like that.
TTom
|
| 10.329 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Wed May 05 1993 21:51 | 3 |
| re .311
Ok, Nazz, the only one I saw was i)... I think they answered that in
the BOSTON_CELTICS notesfile...
|
| 10.330 | Shaq "Pepsi" Attack wins RoY | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 06 1993 21:13 | 24 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: O'Neal wins NBA Rookie of the Year
NEW YORK (UPI) -- Orlando Magic center Shaquille O'Neal, who led all
NBA first-year players in points, rebounds, blocked shots and shattered
backboards, Thursday was named the league's Rookie of the Year.
O'Neal, who led the Magic to the NBA's most improved record over last
season, was was an overwhelming choice of a nationwide panel of sports
writers and broadcasters who regularly cover the NBA, receving 96 of a
possible 98 votes. The panel consists of three media members from each
league city plus 17 from from the national media. Charlotte Hornets
center Alonzo Mourning received the two remaining votes.
O'Neal, selected by Orlando out of Louisiana State with the first
pick in the 1992 draft, averaged 23.4 points, 13.9 rebounds and 3.53
blocked shots. The 7-foot-1 center led the Magic to the best record in
the club's four-year history at 41-41, which represented an improvement
of 20 victories over the previous season. The Magic just missed
qualifying for their first playoff berth.
O'Neal was the only NBA player to rank among the league's top 10 in
four different categories this season. He was fourth in shooting
percentage, second in rebounding and blocked shots and eighth in
scoring.
He was the 14th rookie in NBA history to start in an All-Star Game.
|
| 10.331 | | APPLE::FRANCUS | ABP | Fri May 07 1993 05:25 | 4 |
| I was a bit surprised that the vote was that overwhelming.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.332 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Fri May 07 1993 13:24 | 4 |
| Mourning ain't a milk drinking poster boy type and that hurts
him in the style points count for everything NBA.
/Don
|
| 10.333 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri May 07 1993 13:25 | 1 |
| The Shaq did lead all rookies in most offensive categories...
|
| 10.334 | Congrats Shaq and Zo | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Fri May 07 1993 13:59 | 9 |
| As I said before, this one was already settled.
Shaq is indeeed deserving of ROY. He's met all expectations and appears
to be handling his stardom very well. Give him his due.
Zo is also deserving. And it's a little ironic that Shaq wins this the
day after Zo hit the game winner that sent the Celtics home.
TTom
|
| 10.335 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Fri May 07 1993 14:08 | 14 |
|
Like TTom already has said this was over before it started
Shaq was hyped by the media from day one. I think Alonzo is the
total package though. He can hit the 18 foot jumper regularly and can
control a game on the D side of the ball.
Either way they are both gonna be great players and should be the
leaders in bring the NBA into the next century.
Chappy
|
| 10.336 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | The idea that nothing matters... | Fri May 07 1993 14:15 | 5 |
|
Shaq's out golfing, Zo's still playing that's all that really matters
now isn't it?
mike
|
| 10.337 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Fri May 07 1993 14:32 | 2 |
| 'Zo missed training camp and the first few games too..
|
| 10.338 | Could prob'ly reach most par 4s | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Fri May 07 1993 14:49 | 5 |
| Shaq plays golf?!?!?
Can you imagine how far he can hit a drive?!?!?!?!??!?
NAZZ
|
| 10.339 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri May 07 1993 15:14 | 5 |
| 10.340 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri May 07 1993 15:54 | 1 |
| I'd like to see Shaq and Daly in a driving contest ;-)
|
| 10.341 | coulda cost some votes | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Fri May 07 1993 17:17 | 13 |
| re: Zo missing some early games.
I'm sure this cost him some votes even though it was the Hornets'
decision to have this happen. Zo agreed to the contract in time for the
opening game. The Hornets owner and management decided to take a week to
see if'n they could work some deal before agreeing to it.
The one thing about this that really fried me was that all of the Hornets
announcers - who are all employed by the Hornets - continously refered to
this as Zo's holdout when it fact it was the Hornets actions that forced
Zo to miss any games.
TTom
|
| 10.342 | | AKOCOA::J_RODOPOULOS | | Fri May 07 1993 17:20 | 3 |
| Anyone know how Laettner compared to Shaq & Zo statistically ?
John "D Cowboys" R.
|
| 10.343 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Mon May 10 1993 13:15 | 3 |
| > I'd like to see Shaq and Daly in a driving contest ;-)
They can do it today... New Jersey's eliminated...
|
| 10.344 | Or did you know that... | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is crawling!!! | Mon May 10 1993 13:22 | 5 |
| 10.345 | | ROYALT::ASHE | That's the way love goes... | Mon May 10 1993 13:30 | 2 |
| Uh, I knew that... but this is the NBA note... not golf...
|
| 10.346 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Mon May 10 1993 17:01 | 7 |
| Hat's off to Daly (coach of the Nets) for taking his team 5
games. I didn't think they had a chance to win one. Bulls should
beat the Cavs in 5 or 6. The Suns should take the wind out of the
Admiral's sails in 6. And Hakeem's Heros will slip by the Supes
in seven.
/Don
|
| 10.347 | Bulls da pick | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Mon May 10 1993 17:10 | 18 |
| Right now, I like Chicago's chances for the hat trick.
Going into the playoffs the Suns were my choice to win it all and they
were lucky to beat the Lakers. Seattle, Houston and Cleveland all had to
go to 5 games in the firsted series. The Spurs beat Utah in 4 but will
probably lose to the Suns.
New York has been winning but has not been consistent. The Hornets
have a better chance against the Knicks than the Bulls.
Jordan will go to the nexted level. He has a chance to win 3 in a row
which is something that neither Bird nor Magic did. That should be more
than enough to motivate Chicago to win the east.
I look for Phoenix to get it together and win the west but lose to the
Bulls.
TTom
|
| 10.348 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Si chip inside her head ->overload | Mon May 10 1993 21:17 | 1 |
| Bob Weiss was fired as Hawks haid coach...
|
| 10.349 | | FDCV06::KING | Jessinator attacks Disney, film @11 | Tue May 11 1993 17:45 | 4 |
| Seattle was the 3rd seed in the west and Houston was the second seed...
How come Seattle has the home court advantage? By record?
REK
|
| 10.350 | First tiebreaker | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Tue May 11 1993 17:51 | 6 |
| Houston got automatic second seed as Midwest division winner.
Seattle got homecourt with 3-1 series edge over Houston in regular
season games, since both teams had 55-27 records.
NAZZ
|
| 10.351 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 11 1993 21:45 | 18 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Report: Pitino offered Hawks' job
ATLANTA (UPI) -- Rick Pitino, head basketball coach at Kentucky, has
reportedly been offered a lucrative contract to become head coach of the
NBA's Atlanta Hawks.
New York 1 News, a 24-hour a day all news television station,
reported in its Monday evening that Pitino was offered the job on or
before May 8.
The Hawks' position became vacant Monday when head coach Bob Weiss
was fired.
Atlanta was recently swept in the opening round of the playoffs by
the Chicago Bulls.
The offer is believed to be worth close to $2 million per season, but
family considerations may prevent Pitino from leaving Kentukcy.
Kentucky's basketball program has been revitalized under Pitino, who
guided the Wildcats to a Final Four appearance last season.
|
| 10.352 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | The idea that nothing matters... | Wed May 12 1993 13:28 | 8 |
| >> The offer is believed to be worth close to $2 million per season, but
>> family considerations may prevent Pitino from leaving Kentukcy.
>> Kentucky's basketball program has been revitalized under Pitino, who
>> guided the Wildcats to a Final Four appearance last season.
The Kentucky Alumni will find a way to match the offer one would think...
mike
|
| 10.353 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Silicon chip inside her head ->overload | Wed May 12 1993 13:33 | 1 |
| Pitino shot them down...
|
| 10.354 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is crawling!!! | Wed May 12 1993 13:37 | 3 |
| 10.355 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Wed May 12 1993 15:35 | 21 |
| Ricky's Song
(With apologies to Dionne and the Belmonts)
Well I'm the type of coach, who likes to travel 'round,
I'm never in one gym, I move from town to town.
And if you got the money, honey I'll listen to your pitch,
Seems like after a year or so, I start to get the itch.
'Cuz I'm a wanderer, yeah a wanderer,
I wander 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round...
Well first there was the Friars and then there was the Knicks,
And when the Blue Grass state came calling, I packed up for the sticks.
But if you come and axe me, which job I love the most,
Just flash some of that cash and I will move to either coast.
'Cuz I'm a wanderer, yeah a wanderer,
I wander 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round...
|
| 10.356 | Larry Brown coached the Friars & Knicks? | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 12 1993 15:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.357 | Larry Brown :== Rick Pitino | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Wed May 12 1993 16:47 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.358 | Or does that need a diagram? | ROYALT::ASHE | Silicon chip inside her head ->overload | Wed May 12 1993 17:10 | 5 |
| Then it would beCause I'm the wanderer, yeah the wanderer,
I'm Larry Brown-a-brown-a-brown-a-brown...
|
| 10.359 | | CAM3::WAY | Livewire Voodoo | Wed May 12 1993 17:28 | 9 |
| > I'm Larry Brown-a-brown-a-brown-a-brown...
You wouldn't have said that if his name had been Larry White.....;^)
'Saw
|
| 10.360 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Silicon chip inside her head ->overload | Wed May 12 1993 17:40 | 7 |
| Why not?
You know, all those nights we shared together baby, you and I, it's
like ecstasy... right on... oh you said Larry White... never mind...
No, I'd say it.. .now if it were Larry Tan.... which I know you can't
say yet...
|
| 10.361 | | CAM3::WAY | Livewire Voodoo | Wed May 12 1993 17:42 | 13 |
| > Why not?
>
> You know, all those nights we shared together baby, you and I, it's
> like ecstasy... right on... oh you said Larry White... never mind...
>
> No, I'd say it.. .now if it were Larry Tan.... which I know you can't
> say yet...
You slay me, Walt....absolutely slay me......
'Saw
|
| 10.362 | NBA All-Defensive Team | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 12 1993 19:27 | 51 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA All-Defensive Team
NEW YORK (UPI) -- The NBA 1992-93 All-Defensive team announced
Tuesday (points in parentheses):
First Team
Guard--Michael Jordan (51), Chicago; Joe Dumars (33), Detroit.
Center--Hakeem Olajuwon (37), Houston.
Forward--Dennis Rodman (34), Detroit; Scottie Pippen (32),
Chicago.
Second Team
Guard--Dan Majerle (19), Phoenix; John Starks (14), New York.
Center--David Robinson (29), San Antonio.
Forward--Larry Nance (26), Cleveland; Horace Grant (13), Chicago.
players receive 2 points for first-place vote and 1 point for
second-place in balloting by 27 NBA coaches.
Steal leader Michael Jordan and blocked shot king Hakeem Olajuwon head the
NBA All-Defensive team voted by the NBA's 27 head coaches and announced Tuesday.
Jordan, who led the NBA in steals for the third time in his career as he tries
to lead Chicago to its third straight league title, was named on 25 ballots
and led the way with 51 points. Olajuwon, the Houston center who led the
league in blocked shots for the third time in four years, was named on 16
ballots and received 34 points.
Detroit's Joe Dumars joined Jordan at guard, and forwards Dennis Rodman of the
Pistons and Scottie Pippen of the Bulls completed the first team. Rodman was
named on 14 ballots for 34 points, Dumars was named on 10 ballots with 33
points and Pippen was named on 12 ballots for 32 points.
Coaches selected first and second teams and could not vote for their own
players. Players received two points for a first-place mention and one point
for second place for a maximum of 52 points. The second team consisted of
San Antonio center David Robinson (29 points), fowards Larry Nance (26) of
Cleveland and Horace Grant (13) of Chicago, and guards Dan Majerle (19) of
Phoenix and John Starks (14) of New York.
Jordan averaged 2.83 steals per game for a total of 221, and was voted to the
All-Defensive team for the sixth straight season. He joins Michael Ray
Richardson and Alvin Robertson as the only players to lead the NBA in steals
three times since the league began keeping the statistic in 1973-74.
Olajuwon was voted to the All-Defensive team for the fourth time, after
blocking 4.17 shots per game for a 342 total. Pippen made the team for the
second straight season after teaming with Jordan to hold Bulls opponents to
98.9 points per game. Rodman averaged 18.3 rebounds to lead the NBA for the
second straight season and made the team for the fifth year in a row. Dumars
has made the team four times, including the last two seasons. Forty-two
players received votes, with only Jordan named on all 26 ballots. Dumars was
named on 23 ballots.
|
| 10.363 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I must have got lost... | Wed May 12 1993 20:18 | 3 |
| Jordan's on 25 ballots, he gets 51 points. 2 points for first, 1
for second place. Shouldn't the max be 50? Or is this a league
conspiracy?
|
| 10.364 | His Airness............ | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Wed May 12 1993 20:25 | 12 |
|
Let me get this straight.
Scoring Leader = NO MVP
Steal Leader
Best Defender in League (coach vote) ^
. For the life of me
I can't understand it.
Chappy
|
| 10.365 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I must have got lost... | Wed May 12 1993 20:33 | 3 |
| He had a guy on his team, who also was an Olympian and all-defense
guy. Plus, he's no longer the hot media guy...
|
| 10.366 | | 3335::francus | ABP | Wed May 12 1993 20:46 | 5 |
|
Chappy if there ever is agreement on what MVP means it would
make life boring.
The Cray Met
|
| 10.367 | Jordan was on *26* ballots -> 52 votes max | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 12 1993 20:51 | 1 |
| Walt, Chicagoans vote early and often.
|
| 10.368 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Wed May 12 1993 21:01 | 14 |
|
MVP = MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
not
1 Most Valuable player on a Championship team
2 Most valuable player without another Olympian
3 Most valuable player with media hype.
4 Most valuable player that his team doesn't slide.
These awards are a joke.
Chappy
|
| 10.369 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Inside Intel, but no Intel inside | Wed May 12 1993 21:13 | 10 |
|
re /er and Pitino:
Slasher, you forgot Pitino's roots, man. The place, where as a rookie
head coach, he'd get pissed at a cocky young middle hitter on the
team's NECVL defending champ team who stayed late after practice
everyday, screwing up when his basketball team could hit the floor for
practice. I am speaking, of course, abouyt that NCAA basketball and
volleyball mecca known as Boston University. Now fix the song (and get
my name in their)!
|
| 10.370 | Has to be "The Best", otherwise everyone has a different standard | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed May 12 1993 21:32 | 15 |
|
FWIW, Jackie McMullan of the Boston Globe has said that while in a
way she hopes that Charles Barkley wins the MVP because he's such a
wonderful guy and all that, it was still her job as a_objective_
basketball_analyst to vote for the best (and therefore most valuable,
by objective definition) basketball player in the league, who is
Michael Jordan. At least you have to admire her thought process,
regardless of whether you agree with her selection. None of this
subjective "where would this sorry franchise be without Player X who
has no supporting cast and traditionally low ticket sales" nonsense
that Chappy alluded to...
glenn
|
| 10.371 | | AXIS::ROBICHAUD | | Wed May 12 1993 21:33 | 4 |
| You probably deserved it Brews. WalleyeBall is almost like
soccer...
/Don
|
| 10.372 | Pistons | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 12 1993 22:08 | 2 |
| What's amazing to me is how a team with 2 first team defense members
doesn't even make the playoffs.
|
| 10.373 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Inside Intel, but no Intel inside | Wed May 12 1993 22:12 | 16 |
|
re .370
I realize that the playoffs don't count in the MVP ballots, but after
watching what Jordan was doing with 3 guys on him versus what Charles
was doing with one yesterday, I'd have to agree with her and vote for
Michael.
I'm still waiting for the Suns to try to run a play when they get in
their funk when they can't score. It would have helped them put away
the game, something they are going to have to figure out how to do.
re .369
Where do I turn myself in to the their/there police?
brews
|
| 10.374 | hth | LCALOR::PETRIE | I got happy feet | Wed May 12 1993 22:15 | 3 |
| > Where do I turn myself in to the their/there police?
brews, brews: over *they're*
|
| 10.375 | MVP ?? | MACNAS::SHENEGHAN | | Thu May 13 1993 12:20 | 1 |
| Who did recieve this season's MVP award ??
|
| 10.376 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Thu May 13 1993 12:41 | 13 |
|
Yo Waga MAN I just put that subjective" where would this franchise
be w/o this player" because someone mentioned that the MVP award went
to the player who makes the biggest impact on there teams success.
I believe the MVP should go to the best player in the league for
that year.
I.E. 1985 Mattingly over Clemens, 1986 should have been
Mattingly over Clemens. :-)
Chappy
|
| 10.377 | I understood you Chappy, and was 100% in agreement | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu May 13 1993 13:13 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.378 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I must have got lost... | Thu May 13 1993 13:39 | 18 |
| re .362
Jordan 51 pts, 25 ballots
Hakeem 34 pts, 16 ballots
Rodman 34 pts, 14 ballots
Dumars 33 pts, 10 ballots
Pippen 32 pts, 12 ballots
Something doesn't add up here Mike. Can you check your sources.
You need more than defense to make to the playoffs. You need
consistent play, an inside game, and a consistent lineup. Piston's
didn't have any of these. Rodman made 1st team despite his problems
and missing 20 games this year. Phoenix seemed to think he was good
enough.
Of course, if Detriot(tm) was out west, I bet Phoenix would be home
right now, because they had a better record that the Lakers...
|
| 10.379 | RED SOX 1/2 GAME UP ON YANKS | WMOIS::FASSETT_E | | Thu May 13 1993 14:13 | 4 |
| re.376Chappy are you still crying over 1986, I bet you still cry over spilled
milk!!!
Besides why bring up baseball in the NBA topic?
|
| 10.380 | update | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 13 1993 14:25 | 20 |
| > Something doesn't add up here Mike. Can you check your sources.
The tail end of the article says he was on 26 ballots. The mention of
25 has to be a typo, mathematically speaking.
> Of course, if Detriot(tm) was out west, I bet Phoenix would be home
> right now, because they had a better record that the Lakers...
...and if your grandmother had... Extending this logic, which was
already proven to have no value in the playoffs, the Lakers are better
than any team that does not take Phoenix to a decisive series game. I
pity the rest of Phoenix's opponents from here on out.
Chris Jackson won Most Improved Player last night. Cliff Robinson had
a number of votes. Cedric Ceballos only had 1.
Seattle beat Houston 111-100 to go up 2-0. Knicks beat the Hornets
105-101 in OT.
Mike
|
| 10.381 | Eddie I got some choice seats for ya..... | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Thu May 13 1993 14:32 | 7 |
|
Eddie crawl back under your $123 dollar rock.
Chappy
|
| 10.382 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I must have got lost... | Thu May 13 1993 15:37 | 9 |
| You commented on how a team with 2 all-defensive players didn't make
the playoffs. I'm saying if they played in the West, they would have
(unless Orlando was there too) and would have faced Phoenix. Pistons
had a better record in the regular season, Lakers took them to
overtime.
Won't get into which conference has the greater depth, based in
records, will we?
|
| 10.383 | couldn't resist | 3335::francus | ABP | Thu May 13 1993 15:37 | 4 |
|
Undoubtedly Chappy would agree Gooden over McGee in 1985 :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.384 | Dont know what effect it will have on them ? | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Thu May 13 1993 16:06 | 18 |
| Yes you can once again argue that a team that didnt make the playoffs
deserved too more then a team that did. This year you could argue that
both Orlando and Detroit deserved to make the playoffs more then the
Lakers. But in the past few years a below .500 team has made the
playoffs from the east, mostly do to more parity in the east and no
REAL BAD TEAMS. The thing that surprises me the most is that the west
still had the 2 biggest cellar dwellars and still could not produce 8
teams with a .500 or better record. 10 teams in the east had the
talant to be in the playoffs only problem is only 8 make it.
More important question, why do both west coast playoffs have back to
back games this weekend and the east have no back to back games ?????
Was this dictated somehow from NBC so they could have Tripple Headers
all weekend, and even if so why didnt they have Chicago play sat/sun
instead of sat/mon and only have 1 west coast team have back to back.
Or did they purposly have both back to backs from the same conference ?
Just curious ???
MairB
|
| 10.385 | Hakeem is most valuable; Michael is the best player | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Thu May 13 1993 16:31 | 14 |
|
IMHO, you're confusing "best" wif "Most valuable" - sometomes these
are the same guys, sometimes not.
If the MVP went to the best player in the league, Michael would have
won it the last four-five years, easily. Most valuble should transcend
numbers and go to the guy who means the most to his team, without whom
his team would never have achieved anywhere near what it did. (Thus,
in my definition, guys on losing teams could never be MVPs). Given
my criteria, Hakeem Olajuwon is a very narrow choice over Barkley,
with Patrick Ewing third and Michael fourth. Take Hakeem off the
Rockets, and they are lottery, and this has been his best season.
NAZZ
|
| 10.386 | You have to filter out the transients, the best "stories" | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu May 13 1993 16:48 | 14 |
|
I think the Bulls could be flirting with the lottery without Jordan, and
the Suns wouldn't be without Barkley. What Jordan is being penalized
for is his consistency, both in his own play and that of his situation.
The Knicks are peaking *as a team* after a number of years with
basically the same Ewing, Hakeem raised the level of his play a notch,
and Barkley finally has some players around him and is giving a boost
to his new team. Jordan is just the same old Jordan, the best player on
a team that is possibly the best of the championship contenders but at
the same time the team with the least depth. How is that not "most
valuable"?
glenn
|
| 10.387 | Must be a full Moon tonight | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Thu May 13 1993 17:48 | 8 |
|
Re- .386 Ditto.... (wow a Yankee and a Sox fan agreeing????)
Re TCC... Gooden 24-4 1985. I thought he should get it. (double wow a
Yankee and a Last place Met fan agreeing????)
Chappy
|
| 10.388 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 13 1993 18:13 | 11 |
| > the playoffs. I'm saying if they played in the West, they would have
> (unless Orlando was there too) and would have faced Phoenix. Pistons
> had a better record in the regular season, Lakers took them to
> overtime.
Phoenix has also swept the Pistons the last 3 years. It's funny how
people look at records and the results rather than the individual
matchups which caused the results. The Pistons don't present nearly
the matchup problems for Phoenix that the Lakers do. Simple as that.
Mike
|
| 10.390 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 13 1993 18:44 | 3 |
| You're still ignoring the fact that hoops is a game of matchups. L.A.
was prepared and Phoenix took them for granted. Still, the first 2
games could've gone either way.
|
| 10.391 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 13 1993 18:50 | 9 |
| BTW - Chris Jackson received 25 votes for MIP. The next closest player
had only 16 votes.
The NBA will award the 6th Man Award today. Press conference has been
called for 2pm in Portland to hand Cliff Robinson his trophy.
The MVP award seems to be handed out later and later every season.
Mike
|
| 10.392 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I must have got lost... | Thu May 13 1993 19:04 | 56 |
| Thanks Tommy...
I could see Rodman keeping Barkley in place, KJ and Dumars evening out,
Majerle over Thomas, the center spot being a wash and Dumas having the
edge at the SF. But you would expect that from a best regular season
record team.
Top 10 players, taking TOTAL games, pts, reb, asst, steals and blocks
into account, next to per game totals. Same type formulas I entered
during the year: Mike, let me know how yours differ, I know we've
had close rankings earlier this year.
total average
1: Hakeem 1. Hakeem
2: Robinson 2. Robinson
3: Shaq 3. Jordan
4: Stockton 4. Shaq
5: Jordan 5. Barkley
6: Malone 6. Stockton
7: Barkley 7. Hardaway
8: Pippen 8. Malone
9: Mutombo 9. Pippen
10: Ewing 10. Coleman
Guards: (same formula)
Total Average
1.Stockton 1. Jordan
2.Jordan 2.*Stockton
3.Jackson 3.*Hardaway
4.Blaylock 4.*M. Williams - MIN
5.M. Williams 5. Drexler this would put KJ as
6.Hardaway 6.*Blaylock the # 10 pg, right?
7.Harper 7.*M. Jackson - LAC
8.Thomas 8.*Anderson
9.Hornacek 9. Thomas
10.Bogues 10. R. Harper
11.Murdock 11. Hornacek
12.Skiles 12.*Murdock
13.Threatt 13.*Skiles
14.Strickland 14.*Bogues
15. N. Anderson 15.*KJ
Rookies:
Total Average
1. Shaq 1. Shaq
2. Alonzo 2. Alonzo
3. Gugliotta 3. Gugliotta
4. Laettner 4. Laettner
5. Ellis 5. Ellis
6. Spoon 6. Jackson
7. Sprewell 7. Sprewell
8. Horry 8. Weatherspoon
9. Avent 9. Williams
10. Williams 10. Dumas
|
| 10.393 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 13 1993 19:29 | 11 |
| > into account, next to per game totals. Same type formulas I entered
> during the year: Mike, let me know how yours differ, I know we've
> had close rankings earlier this year.
I would but I haven't seen the final stats yet. I asked Jeff for them
at season's end, but he's swamped.
> I could see Rodman keeping Barkley in place,
Disagree on this, but agree on the rest. We don't have to mention the
deepest bench in the league either. ;-)
|
| 10.394 | | 3335::francus | ABP | Thu May 13 1993 19:38 | 3 |
| Chappy I assume you remember that Clemens was 24-4 in 1986.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.395 | So there..... | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Thu May 13 1993 20:19 | 5 |
|
Yeah but he plays for the Sox.
Chappy
|
| 10.396 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I must have got lost... | Thu May 13 1993 20:20 | 9 |
| Detroit has a mediocre, old bench with Robertson, Laimbeer and Aguirre.
Like I said, the best thing for these guys in the long run was to not
make the playoffs.
Jeff sent me the stats, so I know he has them. He's been pretty busy.
I know he doesn't like them floating around, so you better get them
from him.
|
| 10.397 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Thu May 13 1993 20:56 | 7 |
|
I think the Sonics might have reason to argue the deepest bench in the league.
Cage, Pierce, E. Johnson, Barros and a couple of stiffs...
Metz
|
| 10.398 | Always give up 3 good players if you can get one superstar | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Boston Shootout - June 18,19,20! | Fri May 14 1993 15:33 | 6 |
| Deepest bench is an overrated category. Once the playoffs start, most
coaches like to shrink their regular rotation down to around eight
players. You needa couple of superstars, or close to superstars to win
championships, not a lotta good players.
NAZZ
|
| 10.399 | more awards... | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 17 1993 17:21 | 28 |
| Hakeem won Defensive Player of the Year.
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Riley named NBA Coach of Year
NEW YORK (UPI) -- In the closest balloting in the 31-year history of
the award, Pat Riley of the New York Knicks Monday was named the
National Basketball Association's Coach of the Year for the 1992-1993
season.
Riley received 32 of a possible 98 votes from a nationwide panel of
sports writers and broadcasters. He edged Rudy Tomjanovich of the
Houston Rockets by one vote.
Riley, who also won the award in 1990 with the Los Angeles Lakers, is
only the fifth coach in NBA history to be named Coach of the Year twice.
Riley led the Knicks to a 60-22 record, the best in the Eastern
Conference, and equalled the club record for victories in a season. The
Knicks currently hold a 3-1 advantage over the Charlotte Hornets in
their Eastern Conference semifinal playoff series.
The Knicks' defense allowed a league-low .426 shooting percentage
this season and allowed just 95.4 points a game, the lowest figure since
the Chicago Bulls gave up 95.0 a game in the 1974-1975 season.
Riley has a record six seasons with 60 or more wins and has won at
least 50 games in each of his 11 seasons as a head coach in the NBA.
George Karl of Seattle was third with 10 votes and Paul Westphal of
Phoenix was fourth with nine. New Jersey's Chuck Daly had seven votes,
San Antonio's John Lucas six, Boston's Chris Ford two and Cleveland's
Lenny Wilkens one.
|
| 10.400 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | And there you had it... | Mon May 17 1993 17:35 | 6 |
|
Who in their right mind would vote for Chris Ford? Riley smells of the
ABC/ESPN/Industrial Military Complex that Glenn was talking about this
morning.....
mike
|
| 10.401 | not bad | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Mon May 17 1993 17:52 | 21 |
| > Who in their right mind would vote for Chris Ford?
I don't know about the best this year but I thought he had a hail of a
lot more to do with the success that Boston had this year than Westphal
at Phoenix.
Phoenix added Sir Charles which more than explains the Suns improvement.
By himself he made everyone this side of Tommy Gun Chambers a better
player.
Ford won without any such star.
However, if'n you look at where teams finished compared to where they
were predicted to finish, Rudy T should get the nod in Houston. But of
course, a lot of this has to be Hakeem.
The best team without a superstar was Seattle and Karl shoulda got more
votes than he did. And no one did a better job of playing the cards dealt
than Chuck Daly.
TTom
|
| 10.402 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is crawling!!! | Tue May 18 1993 21:00 | 9 |
| 10.403 | | ROYALT::ASHE | We don't have to take our clothes off | Tue May 18 1993 21:06 | 5 |
| Bob Hill, who signed a 3 year extension 3 monts ago, was fired.
Names rumored on the replacement list: Wilkens, Pitino, Larry Tan, I
mean Brown, Jim Lynam... and Larry Bird.
|
| 10.404 | Legends who became coaches | AKOCOA::BREEN | Or so the sages speak | Wed May 19 1993 18:11 | 13 |
| I suspect that Bird is more than mildly interested in coaching Indiana.
I cannot seem to recall as single legend being successful coaching
although Ted Williams did make manager of the year with Senators before
losing interest.
Rogers Hornsby is most famous "legend" who was a failure as a manager
although that never stopped teams from rehiring him.
Anecdote, Ted W went to Cobb's home and had a pleasurable baseball
conversation until subject of "Rajah" came up and Cobb thru Williams
out of the house for comparing Horsnby with Cobb.
Seems Ty had an unbearable hatred for Hornsby
|
| 10.405 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 05:02 | 11 |
| Orlando gets the #1 pick in the draft once again. My guess is that they
will pick Webber, with Shaq already on the team I can't imagin that
they would pick Bradley.
Orlando lost the tie-breaker to Indiana by 5 points; they had a 1 in 66
chance of getting the #1 pick.
/er how does your conspiracy theory fit in here??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.406 | | GENRAL::WADE | I reckon so..... | Mon May 24 1993 12:06 | 5 |
|
My personal opinion is that Webber is overrated. I think
Orlando would be better off with Mashburn from Kaintuck(tm).
Claybone
|
| 10.407 | Helium-injected ping-pong ball == Shaq + Webber | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 13:10 | 15 |
|
You gotta love that NBA lottery system. Last year it was not a bad
Charlotte team that had just landed the #1 player in LJ that pulled
down the #2 spot against some long odds. This year it looks like
someone got on the phone and said, "Shaq needs some help. We can't
have him missing the playoffs again." Meanwhile the same sad-sack
teams like Dallas are always left on the outside looking in. All I
can say is that I look forward with great anticipation to the Celtics
first lottery appearance.
Two number #1's in a row? One shot in 66? C'mon, who still believes
this is on the up-and-up? ;-)
glenn
|
| 10.409 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 13:20 | 10 |
|
> Weren't the Celts a lottery team when they picked up Len Bias?
They had Seattle's pick, I think. Seattle or Sacramento or whoever it
was Red ripped off for Gerald Henderson. And the cards came up pretty
damned good, although the system wasn't weighted for "fairness" in
those days.
glenn
|
| 10.410 | complete draft order | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 24 1993 16:42 | 66 |
| Chris Webber, Shaq, and Skiles feeding them are a scary thought.
Here's the entire draft order:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Draft Order
Selection order for the June 30 NBA draft.
1. Orlando
2. Philadelphia
3. Golden State
4. Dallas
5. Minnesota
6. Washington
7. Sacramento
8. Milwaukee
9. Denver
10. Detroit (from Miami)
11. Detroit
12. LA Lakers
13. LA Clippers
14. Indiana
15. Atlanta
16. New Jersey
17. Charlotte
18. Utah
19. Boston
20. Charlotte from San Antonio
21. Portland
22. Cleveland
23. Seatlle
24. Houston
25. Chicago
26. Orlando from New York
27. Phoenix
Second Round
28. Dallas
29. Minnesota
30. Washington
31. Sacramento
32. Philadelphia
33. Dallas from Milwaukee
34. Golden State
35. a-Miami or Detroit from Miami OR Washington from Denver
36. a-Miami or Detroit from MIami OR Washington from Denver
37. LA Lakers
38. Washington from Detroit
39. Indiana
40. Atlanta from LA Clippers
41. Chicago from Orlando
42. Seattle from New Jersey (via Orlando)
43. Denver from Atlanta
44. Sacramento from Charlotte
45. Utah
46. Houston from Boston (via New Jersey and Cleveland)
47. San Antonio
48. Portland
49. Phoenix from Cleveland
50. Houston
51. b-Seattle
52. Sacramento from Seattle from Chicago
53. LA Clippers from New York
54. Phoenix
a-The order of this pick will be determined after May 23 Lottery
b-Seattle must convey to Indiana its 1993 or 1994 second-round
choice exercisable by Seattle prior to June 1, 1993.
|
| 10.411 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Mon May 24 1993 17:36 | 5 |
|
Now that we've seen this format for the lottery end, anybody got any
good suggestions on how to run it?
brews
|
| 10.412 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Mon May 24 1993 17:42 | 13 |
|
I'd take Mashburn over Webber as well. I think Mash has the potential to be the
next Jordan type player. Great outside shot, good dribble drive, good post up
and good passer plus he's got great speed and excellent hands.
Webber has shown he can dunk the ball after rose draws coverage during the
penetration and dishes off.
Mashburn is a complete player...
and this has to prove the NBA lottery is fixed...
Metz
|
| 10.413 | A modest proposal | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 17:46 | 14 |
|
Since the Knicks and Nets(sort of) are in the biggest market they should always
get the first and second picks (alternating). LA teams get the 3rd and 4th pick
(Lakers and Clippers alternate). Chicago always gets the 5th pick.
And so on by market size. Of course with the Knicks, Nets, Lakers, Clippers,
and Bulls getting picks 1-5 every year the rest of the order may not matter
all that much. Since Boston does mean a lot to the NBA they will get
the 6th pick even if they are not the next largest market (I'm sure Philly
is a bigger market than Boston).
HtH
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.414 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Mon May 24 1993 17:49 | 9 |
|
I think they should pick by # of NBA championships..
Celtics
Lakers
and so on...
Metz
|
| 10.415 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 17:49 | 14 |
| Mashburn, Webber whatever.
The only thing clear is that Bradley will not be the #1 pick. Amazingly
if Orlando had gotten the #3 pick they still would have gotten, most likely,
either Mashburn or Webber.
re: fixed - I highly doubt it. Much too much at stake for the NBA
to take a chance like that.
Anyone have a list of teams that got the #1 pick since the lottery
was started; also once they went to the current system, what were the
odds of the team that got the #1 pick?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.416 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 24 1993 17:51 | 3 |
| Is there a difference between market size and metropolis population?
Phoenix is 9th in the country (population) and ahead of Boston as well
as many other cities.
|
| 10.417 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 17:52 | 6 |
|
Not sure how the TV networks determine market size. I'm sure that it
has more to do with metropolitan areas than only the population
of the specific city.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.418 | Lucky for the Patriots and football fans... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 17:55 | 7 |
|
Boston represents most of New England as far as the TV markets are
concerned, and is in the top 5, behind New York, Chicago, LA, and maybe
one other.
glenn
|
| 10.419 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Mon May 24 1993 18:08 | 5 |
|
I think SF is fifth in market size.
How can you say the Knick are a bigger market than the Celtics, TCM?
Didn't the Celtics draw more fans???
|
| 10.420 | 1990's not 1950's | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 18:20 | 10 |
|
Actually I don't have the stats on who drew more fans, but I would
guess that you are right.
Brews, the problem is you're living in the past. Market today is
determined by TV and not by how many people actually show up to
watch a game. We're going into the multi-media age and you're still
living in a time when radio was the dominant communication technology.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.421 | It stinks to high heaven! | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 18:29 | 40 |
| As David Stern sees it:
> 1. Orlando
Fastest-growing market in the country. Huge impact on the league.
Absolute must-sell, two playoff series per year *minimum*.
> 2. Philadelphia
Large market. Team in big trouble. Traditional aspects secondary, but
important. Owed a big one after secret league edict to ship Charles
Barkley out to a more marketable situation for his final days in the
spotlight.
> 3. Golden State
Another large market. Only in the lottery in the first place because of
injuries and doesn't belong, but give them one of Webber/Bradley/Mashburn,
and they're up there with Phoenix as one of the top two teams in the West.
The West needs a boost in the marketing department with the decline of
the Lakers, and until the Lakers hit the lottery, this is the best team
to do it with.
> 4. Dallas
> 5. Minnesota
> 6. Washington
> 7. Sacramento
> 8. Milwaukee
> 9. Denver
> 10. Detroit (from Miami)
> 11. Detroit
Ranked in order of finish from here on. Basketball-crazy Dallas (not!)
holds the most ping-pong balls, but is a serious candidate for
Stern-induced euthanasia. Beyond that, without question not one of the
rest of the teams is as attractive to the NBA as *any* of the Top 3.
Coincidence?
glenn
|
| 10.422 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 18:33 | 4 |
|
So Glenn what is your opinion on the assasination of JFK??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.423 | I wasn't RON-NING, I was RUN-NING... :^) | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantonisn'tcalling | Mon May 24 1993 18:36 | 21 |
|
>> re: fixed - I highly doubt it. Much too much at stake for the NBA
>> to take a chance like that.
Geez I haven't a laugh this good in days. You probably believe when Ewing
came out that it was an act of devine intervention and not NBA marketing,
right? Or maybe you just trying to hid the latten quilt you feel over
getting Ewing by trying to legitamize yesterday's sheninigans?
Get real yesterday they didn't even attemp to shuffle the 4-11 order to
throw you off that everything was already predetermined. Like they did
in the past....
Anyways although I think Skiles is adequate, players like Hardeway are
few and far between. I'd take him. Of course if Orlando takes Mashburn
instead I also don't feel they're making a mistake. Heck with the present
lineup they could take Rodney Rodgers and still come out ahead of the
game....
mike
|
| 10.424 | You have to ask? | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 18:41 | 8 |
|
> So Glenn what is your opinion on the assasination of JFK??
Follow the trail. David Stern --> Larry O'Brien --> JFK.
glenn
|
| 10.425 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 18:50 | 6 |
|
'Saw,
See .423. Now even by your definition Mike Childs is welshing.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.426 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Mon May 24 1993 18:53 | 4 |
|
If you guys don't stop saying derogatory things about the Welsh, I'll
send a drunken Irishman, a Jewish IRS auditor, and an Italian with Mafia
connections after you. 8^)
|
| 10.427 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 18:55 | 5 |
|
Brews, being sensitive to such concerns I looked up welsher in the dictionary
and it had it defined in the way that we are using it here.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.428 | Warriors will be back in a big way next year | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 24 1993 18:58 | 5 |
| Re: Golden St.
Glenn nailed that one. Nellie finally has a great pick to go with
2-legitimate All-Stars (Mullin & Hardaway) and a very good player
(Owen). He could also grab the big man he's never had in Bradley.
|
| 10.429 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 24 1993 19:02 | 4 |
| 10.430 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 19:09 | 4 |
|
How would taking Bradley and trading him solve their salary cap problem??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.431 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 24 1993 19:11 | 1 |
| What's a "latten quilt"?
|
| 10.432 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 24 1993 19:13 | 4 |
| 10.433 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 19:15 | 6 |
|
I'm not sure where Orlando is wrt the sakary cap but I suspect that
they'll figure out something. Webber or Mashburn would be too tough
to pass up on.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.434 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantoniscalling | Mon May 24 1993 19:19 | 9 |
|
quit yer bitchin' whinner will ya!!! ;^) just getting a few last yanks in...
as for Mac, maybe he thinks cause Shawn's a Mormon his needs will be less.
Brews, Clemens is hurt but is much to manly to admit it. Either that or
he is human. Must have killed him to walk Boggs on 11 pitches...
mike
|
| 10.435 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Mon May 24 1993 19:23 | 13 |
|
Concerning the order of the draft: First of all, after the top 3 picks
are done via lottery the rest (all 24) are done by reverse record. So
the comments about they didn't even try to juggle slots 4-11, you
obviously didn't know what you were talking about.
Also, there was a 28.96% chance that the team with the 5th worst record
would get one of those top three picks and a 21.25% chance for the 7th
worst. So it is not as ridiculus as it would seem.
Marc
|
| 10.436 | Did The Crazy Marlin or Slusher sick you on me??? | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantoniscalling | Mon May 24 1993 19:27 | 14 |
| <<< Note 10.435 by CSC32::M_MACGREGOR >>>
> Concerning the order of the draft: First of all, after the top 3 picks
> are done via lottery the rest (all 24) are done by reverse record. So
> the comments about they didn't even try to juggle slots 4-11, you
> obviously didn't know what you were talking about.
Sey what???? every other year they have had to reshuffle cause a team
like Dallas may have fallen out of the hopper with the 10 th pick and
they would move them up to the fourth posistion. So obviously I did know
what I was talking about....
mike
|
| 10.437 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 24 1993 19:33 | 9 |
| Hey Mike, nice p_n!
NOT!
Dallas, the worst team in the league, ends up with the pick they were
guaranteed to have at a minimum.
Orlando only had 1 ball (only team with 1) out of the 66 and still win it.
I'll leave the probability calculations to someone else.
|
| 10.438 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Mon May 24 1993 19:35 | 8 |
|
mike, you obviously missed the entire point. There is NO fourth ball
taken out of the hopper. Three, the number just after two and WAY
before 10, is all that is taken. After that the order is determined by
inverse regular season record.
Marc
|
| 10.439 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 19:38 | 5 |
|
What formula did you use to figure out the probability of the 5th worse
team having a 28.96 % chance of getting one of the tope 3 picks??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.441 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantoniscalling | Mon May 24 1993 20:01 | 10 |
|
> mike, you obviously missed the entire point. There is NO fourth ball
> taken out of the hopper. Three, the number just after two and WAY
> before 10, is all that is taken. After that the order is determined by
> inverse regular season record.
I must still be orbitting then cause I fail to see where that makes a
difference to what I said.
|
| 10.442 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | TheCaribbean-StateHouseSouth | Mon May 24 1993 20:04 | 13 |
| 10.443 | Where does Jordan play? Ewing? Shaq? Etc., etc.. | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 20:07 | 15 |
|
> Also, there was a 28.96% chance that the team with the 5th worst record
> would get one of those top three picks and a 21.25% chance for the 7th
> worst. So it is not as ridiculus as it would seem.
And the odds that *all three* of these particular teams would win
lottery picks, which just happens to represent the most optimal result
of the drawing for the NBA from a marketing perspective, are over one
in 1300. But hey, miracles happen, almost every year, even.
The Orlando "magic" stinks in and of itself but the Golden State
"winner" is the clincher...
glenn
|
| 10.444 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 20:11 | 5 |
|
Wasn't the lottery put in place a year or two after Jordan came into the
NBA?? Also, Jordan was not considered a sure fire megastar at the time.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.445 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 20:17 | 4 |
|
Glenn, what were the odds of the 3 worst teams getting the top 3 picks.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.446 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Mon May 24 1993 20:23 | 6 |
|
It was put in place when Jordan came in. Howeverr, MIchael had little
to do with it. Houston tanked the last couple weeks of the season to
draft Akeem.
brews
|
| 10.447 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon May 24 1993 20:27 | 5 |
|
When Jordan was drafted they already used the lottery? I thought 1985
when Ewing was drafted was the first year.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.448 | It's absolutely shocking, ain't it? | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 24 1993 21:00 | 12 |
|
> Glenn, what were the odds of the 3 worst teams getting the top 3 picks.
About one in 27.5 (estimated by 6 combos x 11/66 x 10/55 x 9/45). It's
unlikely to come out perfectly like that, and such unpredictability
is the whole intent of the system (or so they say). But the chances
of all three worst teams getting shut out are about 1 in 7.5, and all
four worst about 1 in 17.7. And that's what happened, mysteriously in
favor of these large market teams who weren't so bad off to begin with.
glenn
|
| 10.449 | I'll take # 2 | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | MR INFORMER..LICKY LICKY BOOM BOOM DOWN | Mon May 24 1993 21:01 | 15 |
|
So which of these 2 would you want as a cornerstone of your team.
1. Mikey and Scottie
2. LJ and Zo
3. Shaq and Bradley/M.A.S.H/Time out Kid. :-)
4. Chuck and ThunderDan
5. Price and Daugherty
6. Nique and Willis.
7. Coleman and Drazen
8. Owens and Hardaway
Chap
|
| 10.450 | Playoff Prediction Standings | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 24 1993 21:15 | 14 |
| Here's the playoff prediction standings based on entries in here.
The Eastcoasters typically did very poorly with the West predicitons.
Noter W L Rounds Finals
----------------------------------------------------------
Heiser 10-2 (both rounds - .303) Phoenix - Chicago
Chappy 9-3 (both rounds - .307) Seattle - Chicago
Slasher 9-3 (both rounds - .274,.346) Phoenix - ?
TCM 9-3 (both rounds - .309) Seattle - New York
Ashe 7-5 (both rounds - .304,.306) Seattle - New York
I gave Walt the benefit of the doubt since he picked Seattle in .304
and Houston in .306. I couldn't find Slasher's pick for the East -
now's your chance.
|
| 10.451 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon May 24 1993 21:20 | 16 |
| > 1. Mikey and Scottie
> 2. LJ and Zo
> 3. Shaq and Bradley/M.A.S.H/Time out Kid. :-)
> 4. Chuck and ThunderDan
> 5. Price and Daugherty
> 6. Nique and Willis.
> 7. Coleman and Drazen
> 8. Owens and Hardaway
Chappy, just to update you: Drazen is leaving for Europe so Kenny
Anderson should be there, #8 should include Chris Mullin, and #3 should
exclude Bradley (don't need him with Shaq).
Having said that, I'd take Shaq + Webber/Mashburn out of that list for
a cornerstone if I was building a team. I'd go with the most talented
youth available. Orlando will be good for a loooong time.
|
| 10.452 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Tue May 25 1993 04:50 | 5 |
| Pretty amazing that everyone who picked has a chance of picking the
Finals matchup corectly.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.453 | Some spoilsports ruining everything... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Tue May 25 1993 13:32 | 14 |
|
"It's a joke. Orlando's getting the No. 1 pick is not what this
draft-- or any other draft-- is meant to be. People refer to this as a
party. Well, the damn party's over."
--Jack McCloskey, Minnesota GM
Stacey, get McCloskey on the phone. He's rocking the boat again.
Didn't he get his check? He did? Well, dammit, he's gone too far this
time. I'm not going to have him spoiling our party again...
David Stern
|
| 10.454 | Barkley, Hakeem, Jordan, Ewing | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Tue May 25 1993 17:06 | 31 |
| Article: 9153
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Barkley wins MVP award
Date: Tue, 25 May 93 9:09:59 PDT
NEW YORK (UPI) -- Forward Charles Barkley of the Phoenix Suns Tuesday
was named the winner of the National Basketball Association Most
Valuable Player award.
It is the first MVP award for Barkley, who played the first eight
years of his career with the Philadelphia 76ers. Barkley was acquired by
Phoenix from the 76ers last June in exchange for three players and led
the Suns to an NBA best and franchise-record 62-20 mark during the
regular season.
Barkley received 59 of a possible 98 first-place votes and 835 points
from a nationwide panel of writers and broadcasters. Each voter selected
five MVP candidates in order of preference and points were awarded on a
10-7-5-3-1 basis.
Center Hakeem Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets finished second in the
balloting with 22 first-place votes and 647 total points.
Guard Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls, winner of the past two MVP
awards and three MVP awards overall, was third with 13 first-place votes
and 565 points. Center Patrick Ewing of the New York Knicks was fourth
with four first-place votes and 359 points.
The 30-year-old Barkley was fifth in the league in scoring (25.6
ppg), sixth in rebounding (12.2) and averaged 5.1 assists. The 6-6, 252-
pound forward also blocked 74 shots and hit 67 three-pointers.
Barkley is also the third player ever to win league MVP honors one
year after being traded. The other players to win the MVP award a year
after being traded were Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with the Los Angeles Lakers
in 1975-76 and Moses Malone with Philadelphia in 1982-83.
|
| 10.455 | NBA- New Botch Association | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantoniscalling | Tue May 25 1993 17:14 | 2 |
|
tsk tsk....
|
| 10.456 | and it wasn't even close! | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 25 1993 17:20 | 1 |
| NBA had nothing to do with it. The media did the voting.
|
| 10.457 | nothing new | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Tue May 25 1993 17:24 | 8 |
| Just like ROY, the MVP was predetermined. Jordan wasn't any better than
he was lasted year. Hakeem never did get the ink. Ewing was overshadowed
by Pat Riley.
But the news all year was Charles and they rewarded him for all that good
copy.
TTom
|
| 10.458 | Just baiting me for a look at the p-name? | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantoniscalling | Tue May 25 1993 18:12 | 5 |
|
and if you don't think they work hand in hand with one another Mike, I got
a bridge for sale...........
mike
|
| 10.459 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Tue May 25 1993 18:28 | 10 |
|
Back to the lottery system...
What was the original point of the lottery? Why doesn't the NBA do their draft
like any other league and do it on the basis of overall record...Ya know
the time honored tradition of the worst team picks first?
Or does the circus sideshow add the the FANtastic reputation of the league?
Metz
|
| 10.460 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Tue May 25 1993 18:32 | 6 |
|
The original reason for the lottery was that in 1983 it appeared that the
Rockets were not exactly trying at the end of the season so they could get
Hakeem with the #1 pick in the draft.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.461 | thou shalt not tanketh thy neighbor | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Tue May 25 1993 18:39 | 8 |
| Like has been said before, the main difference between what the NBA and
everyone else does is that the lottery was intended to deal with the
tanking issue, as in losing on purpose to get the best pick.
The circus is an important part of all this. In fact, the whole thang is
one big media fest.
TTom
|
| 10.462 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue May 25 1993 19:03 | 4 |
| Hey Childs, were NBA officials and NBA beat-writers in Dallas back in
November of 1963?
BTW - I really hate that p_n, but it looks mahvelous on ya!
|
| 10.463 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Tue May 25 1993 19:11 | 8 |
|
Mike H writes:
> BTW - I really hate that p_n, but it looks mahvelous on ya!
/er an added bonus
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.464 | Yes, you can fool some of the people all of the time | CNTROL::CHILDS | John Elway-Cantoniscalling | Tue May 25 1993 19:33 | 8 |
|
> Hey Childs, were NBA officials and NBA beat-writers in Dallas back in
> November of 1963?
No but that's who they learnt from.....
mike
|
| 10.465 | | GENRAL::WADE | I reckon so..... | Tue May 25 1993 19:33 | 5 |
|
So where's the incentive to not tank a game? The worse
the record is, the more ping pong balls.....right?
Claybone
|
| 10.467 | Sell the story to the Enquirer for MAXIMUM monetary benefit... | RUGBY1::way | Hong Kong Cavalier Wannabe | Tue May 25 1993 20:08 | 12 |
| Tommy,
Was it a massive explosion, with scalp and cerebral matter all over the
walls, or was it a minor cranial blowout, followed by a sudden decompression
of the skull and a resulting implosion of the by then hollowed out shell
of a cranium.
The reason I'm asking is that it will be important in determining damages
awarded.....
'Saw
|
| 10.468 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Tue May 25 1993 20:16 | 10 |
|
SO what would induce a team to not tank games?
I figure if the commish can tell a team that it's superstar has to play in some
meaningless end of season games he sure can tell a team he'll pull them from the
draft if he thinks they are tanking games...
Face it NBA...the lottery is stupid...
Metz
|
| 10.469 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Burning both ends of the knife... | Tue May 25 1993 20:26 | 3 |
| Where does the #10 pick + Rodman go for the Pistons to move up and grab
Webber? Orlando? Philly?
|
| 10.470 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR1-4/E13 237-2468 | Tue May 25 1993 20:29 | 6 |
| Walt,
Gil Santos on WBZ Monday morning said that Orlando might make
that trade.
Mike
|
| 10.471 | Is Gil from E. Mifflin? | ROYALT::ASHE | Burning both ends of the knife... | Tue May 25 1993 20:34 | 1 |
| Scary.... really scary...
|
| 10.472 | Daly... only chuck will trade for the Worm.. | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Tue May 25 1993 20:48 | 11 |
|
They must have some serious salary cap problems to make that trade. Why would
anybody trade for Rodman who could go AWOL or retire at any moment?
The only team I can see willing to trade for him is the Nets.
Orlando might just try to assemble a cast of low-payed niche players around
Shaq and ride the NBA marketing wave to the playoffs.
Metz
|
| 10.473 | That'll take care of that nasty problem... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed May 26 1993 14:21 | 9 |
|
> SO what would induce a team to not tank games?
A letter from the commish telling them that if they're trying to win or
not, demographic studies have shown that they're coming up with the big
zero come lottery day...
glenn
|
| 10.474 | Charles is in good company | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 26 1993 17:28 | 42 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Most Valuable Players
1993--Charles Barkley, Phoenix
1992--Michael Jordan, Chicago
1991--Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990--Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
1989--Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
1988--Michael Jordan, Chicago
1987--Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
1986--Larry Bird, Boston
1985--Larry Bird, Boston
1984--Larry Bird, Boston
1983--Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1982--Moses Malone, Houston
1981--Julius Erving, Philadelphia
1980--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LA Lakers
1979--Moses Malone, Houston
1978--Bill Walton, Portland
1977--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LA Lakers
1976--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LA Lakers
1975--Bob McAdoo, Buffalo
1974--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1973--Dave Cowens, Boston
1972--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1971--Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970--Willis Reed, New York
1969--Wes Unseld, Baltimore
1968--Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1967--Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966--Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965--Bill Russell, Boston
1964--Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati
1963--Bill Russell, Boston
1962--Bill Russell, Boston
1961--Bill Russell, Boston
1960--Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1959--Bob Pettit, St. Louis
1958--Bill Russell, Boston
1957--Bob Cousy, Boston
1956--Bob Pettit, St. Louis
|
| 10.475 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Burning both ends of the knife... | Wed May 26 1993 21:24 | 4 |
| How many of those guys were traded for 3 guys, had a rookie coach and
a rookie start on the same team as them? They must not have been TRUE
MVP's...
|
| 10.476 | Kareem & Moses for sure | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 26 1993 21:43 | 1 |
| I'm not sure, but I bet Kareem, Moses, and Wilt were 3 of them.
|
| 10.477 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Wed May 26 1993 21:53 | 4 |
|
I predict that Hakeem will win the award next year as a make-up call.
Metz
|
| 10.478 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 26 1993 22:09 | 2 |
| Hakeem had a good year, but they didn't win more than what they've been
averaging the past few years.
|
| 10.479 | Lost in Love and I don't much... | ROYALT::ASHE | Burning both ends of the knife... | Wed May 26 1993 22:12 | 3 |
| In their MVP season? Just going by what you said in Boston_celtics...
|
| 10.480 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed May 26 1993 22:48 | 8 |
| > In their MVP season? Just going by what you said in Boston_celtics...
Yup. Even the UPI release said that Kareem and Moses were the only
other 2 to win the MVP the season after going through a major trade.
> -< Lost in Love and I don't much... >-
so what else is new? ;-)
|
| 10.481 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Burning both ends of the knife... | Thu May 27 1993 04:13 | 2 |
| You knowing what you're talking about? (wink-smiley goes here...)
|
| 10.482 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 27 1993 13:37 | 4 |
| 10.483 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Burning both ends of the knife... | Thu May 27 1993 14:43 | 2 |
| No, Malone had that...
|
| 10.484 | Moses sat out this year | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 27 1993 15:50 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.485 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Hawaii-BeaconHillWest | Thu May 27 1993 16:49 | 4 |
| MVP awards are nice, but Champeenships are better. Just ask
William Felton Russell (he of the more rings than fingers category).
/Don
|
| 10.486 | Jordan, too | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Thu May 27 1993 16:54 | 6 |
| > MVP awards are nice, but Champeenships are better. Just ask
Maybe we should ask his Airness about this. Unless he and the rest of the
Bulls get it together, he may be looking at neither.
TTom
|
| 10.487 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Wonder who's cryin' now | Thu May 27 1993 17:15 | 7 |
| I meant Karl. Karl Malone... The mailman... had the best PG in the NBA
feeding him.
Moses didn't sit the year out. He played in 11 games this year.
Averaged 4+ ppg, 4+rpg...
|
| 10.488 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 27 1993 17:18 | 5 |
| > I meant Karl. Karl Malone... The mailman... had the best PG in the NBA
> feeding him.
you mean the best regular season assist PG in the NBA. He couldn't
score or defend against KJ and Hardaway to save his life.
|
| 10.489 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Wonder who's cryin' now | Thu May 27 1993 17:27 | 9 |
| No, I mean best PG in the NBA. Playoffs plus regular season. I'm
including assists, steals, points, blocked shots and rebounds in that
on a per game basis. Not totals to give KJ a break. Your mileage will
vary. Still waiting to see your final results... Scott Skiles had
better numbers. Isiah had better numbers. Muggsy had better numbers.
Kenny Anderson had better numbers... Mark Jackson, Eric Murdock...
He did have better numbers than Payton, Avery Johnson and Threatt, I'll
give you that.
|
| 10.490 | no biggie | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 27 1993 17:34 | 1 |
| 10.491 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 27 1993 17:37 | 7 |
| 10.492 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 27 1993 17:42 | 5 |
| > Besides, how good can a player really be if he misses half of the
> games (and the team goes on to lead the NBA in wins)?
yeah it's all his fault he was injured. There's little doubt they
wouldn've won 70 games if he played the whole season.
|
| 10.493 | You probably thought this song is about you... | ROYALT::ASHE | Wonder who's cryin' now | Thu May 27 1993 17:45 | 2 |
| Thanks Mac... I thought I would have to highlight that for him again...
PER GAME...
|
| 10.494 | doubt 70 | HBAHBA::HAAS | not a real green dress, that's cruel | Thu May 27 1993 17:58 | 19 |
| re: .492
> yeah it's all his fault he was injured. There's little doubt they
> wouldn've won 70 games if he played the whole season.
Not sure how much ;-) there is here but if'n this is intended for serious
discussion, than yes, I have a lot of doubt about winning 70 games. Does
anyone know the Suns record with and without KJ?
In any case, KJ's not the reason for the Suns sucess. Credit that to
Sir Charles.
And neither is KJ the problem with the Suns. The problem with the Suns is
the Suns have Tom Chambers. Right now, Chambers is a major liability
against the Sonics, would look even worse against the Knicks. What the
Suns need here is Tim Kempton who would at least bang into people.
Chambers looks like he's trying to get outta the way.
TTom
|
| 10.495 | I can't fight this feeling anymorrrrrre... | ROYALT::ASHE | Wonder who's cryin' now | Thu May 27 1993 18:10 | 2 |
| KJ=MVP? Wasn't he involved with in a 3 man deal a few years ago?
Rookie coach, rookie starter... except it's Ceballos now...
|
| 10.496 | not 3 for 1 | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 27 1993 18:45 | 3 |
| > KJ=MVP? Wasn't he involved with in a 3 man deal a few years ago?
Yeah right. Try a 3-for-3 swap.
|
| 10.497 | You can tune a piano...can't tuna fish | ROYALT::ASHE | Wonder who's cryin' now | Thu May 27 1993 18:54 | 1 |
| Did I say 3-for-1, or a 3 man deal?
|
| 10.498 | KJ was in Nance deal? | AKOCOA::BREEN | But in the land of the one-eyed men | Thu May 27 1993 20:07 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.499 | makes you almost get interested in the NHL... nah | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Go Stars & take the Vikes with u | Thu May 27 1993 20:08 | 18 |
| Back to the blottery for a moment. Stern has to feel embarrassed and
ashamed it turned out this way. It was the worst possible scenario.
You have the two bottom teams pushed to their lowest picks possible
(fourth and fifth) meanwhile there's a .500 team that just misses the
playoffs that is allowed to jump in and grab #1. It never should have
happened. If anything, they should say the last four teams can't receive
higher than a #5 pick. Look at what a joke it's turned out to be.
Last year the Woofies had the worst record and got the #3 pick.
Laettner's decent, but he's no Shaq or Mourning. This year the Woofies
have the second worst record and get ?? whoever, they are not in the
same class of a Webber, Mashburn or Hardaway. So we'll sit here with
marginal improvement at best and be one of the three bottom teams for
two or three more years.
Yeah, that's sparked a lot of interest here, I'll tell ya.
Spud
|
| 10.500 | You Minnesotans aren't people too, Spud... ;-) | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu May 27 1993 20:18 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.501 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu May 27 1993 20:22 | 4 |
| > -< KJ was in Nance deal? >-
Larry Nance & Mike Sanders for KJ, Mark West, Ty Corbin, and a first
round pick who ended up being Dan Majerle.
|
| 10.502 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 27 1993 20:32 | 1 |
| So it wasn't a 3-3 or a 3-1, it was a 4-2.
|
| 10.503 | Looks like Colangelo learned from Red | AKOCOA::BREEN | But in the land of the one-eyed men | Thu May 27 1993 21:20 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.504 | MVP dominated by big men | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri May 28 1993 03:34 | 2 |
| Anyone know how tall Bob Petit is? It appears that the only MVP
shorter than Barkley is Bob Cousy.
|
| 10.505 | All-NBA team | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri May 28 1993 03:35 | 42 |
| Article: 9171
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.top
Subject: Barkley, Jordan head NBA Stars
Date: Thu, 27 May 93 9:13:21 PDT
NEW YORK (UPI) -- Forward Charles Barkley of the Phoenix Suns, the
1992-93 National Basketball Association Most Valuable Player, and seven-
time scoring champion Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls were both
unanimous selections Thursday to the All-NBA team.
Joining Barkley and Jordan on the first team are center Hakeem
Olajuwon of the Houston Rockets, the runner-up to Barkley in the MVP
voting, forward Karl Malone of the Utah Jazz and guard Mark Price of the
Cleveland Cavaliers.
Barkley and Jordan were the only two players named on all 98 first
team ballots submitted by a nationwide panel of NBA writers and
broadcasters.
Center Patrick Ewing of the New York Knicks, who finished fourth in
the MVP voting, headlines the second team, where he is joined by
forwards Dominique Wilkins of the Atlanta Hawks and Larry Johnson of the
Charlotte Hornets and guards Joe Dumars of the Detroit Pistons and John
Stockton of Utah.
Selected to the third team were center David Robinson of the San
Antonio Spurs, forward Scottie Pippen of Chicago, forward Derrick
Coleman and guard Drazen Petrovic of the New Jersey Nets and guard Tim
Hardaway of the Golden State Warriors.
Barkley and Jordan led all vote-getters with the maximum 490 points.
Barkley sparked the Suns to a league-best 62-20 record while leading the
team in scoring (25.6 ppg), rebounding (12.2 rpg) and total assists
(385, 5.1 apg).
Jordan became only the second player in NBA history to win seven
straight scoring titles, following Wilt Chamberlain. Jordan averaged 32.
6 points and led the league in steals (2.83 spg).
Olajuwon was next with 455 points and 83 first team votes, while
Malone earned 377 points and 45 first team votes and Price received 344
points and 44 first team votes.
Jordan and Malone are the only repeat members on this year's first
team. Jordan made the first team for the seventh straight year while
Malone was selected for the fifth consecutive season.
It is the fifth first team selection for Barkley and fourth for
Olajuwon, the NBA's Defensive Player of the Year. It is the first first
team selection for Price.
|
| 10.506 | | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Fri May 28 1993 13:39 | 6 |
| I believe Bob Pettit (kinda like the way that syllabilizes 8^), being
a C was around 6'8 or 6'9, certainly no smaller.
HTH
MikeL
|
| 10.507 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jun 01 1993 14:25 | 5 |
| What a travesty. Kevin Johnson, the best PG in the NBA, didn't make
first team, second team, or even third team All-NBA.
Interesting that the assist leader for Phoenix this season wasn't the
point guard.
|
| 10.508 | must take more than a moderator to figure this out | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 01 1993 14:26 | 1 |
| Real interesting since he only played 40 games.
|
| 10.509 | | CGOOA::DEVLIN | LayinInBedJustLikeBrianWilsonDid | Tue Jun 01 1993 14:33 | 24 |
|
Mac -
How dare you question Mike H. He's the most knowledgeable person about
every subject. He'll tell ya so. And he's real knowledgeable about
hoops. Of course he didn't know who Bob Pettit was (scoff), so one
wonders what this ex-Celtic fan really knows about the game.
I'll set it straight for you Mac: KJ - best point guard
Thunder Dan - Best guard other than KJ
Charles - best period.
Oliver Miller/Duams - two best rookies.
Danny Ainge - best sub
Tom Chambers - best role player in a supporting cast
Gorilla - best mascot
And don't forget all them lunch pail blue collar workers in the stands.
There ya go Mac. All straightened out?
And if you don't agree with Mike H. - Bruce will come in and back him
up.
JD
|
| 10.510 | JD, you're an idiot | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 01 1993 14:50 | 2 |
| Naw, other than KJ and Barkley, the Suns are just a group of lunch pail
player who should be thankful they're in the NBA.
|
| 10.511 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Tue Jun 01 1993 16:43 | 23 |
|
JD,
If you'd take off the red and blue glasses you've been wearing lately
(seems that they've been lost for the last several seasons, but
suddenly found), you would notice that I am not the big Suns fan as
you are portraying me. Except for the times I've had to correct you
when you were talking about something of which you knew nothing, I've
probably put more anti-Suns notes in here than pro-Suns notes. It may
just look like I was pro-Suns because I've been correcting so many of
the mistakes you've written about the Suns.
Being one of the more vociferous Celtics fans in the office here, I've
had to put up with more than my fair share of Suns fans parading by my
office in all their regalia. I've taken quite a bit of abuse from Suns
fans here (second only to the Lakers fans, who, as in this notesfile,
showed up for the first time in years a few weeks ago, then disappeared
again.) and am not exactly the big Suns fan you seem to make (or want
to make) me out to be.
Once again, sorry to ruin one of your arguments with the truth.
brews
|
| 10.512 | Magic Clipper? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Tue Jun 01 1993 17:58 | 10 |
|
Yabbut anybody else hear the rumor that Magic is supposedly gonna
become a part-owner and CEO if the Clippers?
I thought I heard that yesterday.
I remain,
wondering if he'll get his wish to own a club?
Kev
|
| 10.513 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jun 01 1993 18:00 | 2 |
| Kev, I read that Magic is part of a group trying to put an NBA team
into Toronto.
|
| 10.514 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Tue Jun 01 1993 18:02 | 4 |
| Quinn Buckner mentioned that Lenny Wilkins will end up with the Clippers,
Magic would be a long shot to be an owner of that team.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.515 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Tue Jun 01 1993 18:05 | 3 |
|
Wilkens signed with the HAwks today, so much for Quinn. Magic would be
a minority owner of the Clips.
|
| 10.516 | this should get ya started | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 01 1993 19:07 | 15 |
| Brews, I have the same problem here. I find it always helps to remind
them of a few key points:
- the Celtics have 16 championships; more than anyone
- Bird won 3 MVP's in a row so Chaz only has 2 to go
- They won 60+ games so many times that we lost count
- Celtics rarely lost at home during their title runs. HCA was
precious and well-taken care of
- Celtics had the killer-instinct and didn't let a team back in a
series when they had them down for the count
- the Suns are trying to capture the Celtics mystique by hiring
Westphal and signing Ainge. They'll probably grab Parish for next
season too.
I mainly defend the Suns in here for the sake of a good argument ;-)
|
| 10.517 | speaking of "wizards" | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 01 1993 19:57 | 59 |
| Article 41262 of rec.sport.basketball.pro:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: hho6p@Virginia.EDU ("Henry Hong Oh")
Subject: NBC's mock draft
Organization: University of Virginia
NBC before game 4 of the Sonics vs. Suns had a mock draft of
the first 12 spots. The stand-in GM's were Peter Vescey(USA
today writer and half of NBC's NBA insiders), Bill
Walton(former center of TrailBlazers and Celtics and the other
half of NBC's NBA insiders), Bob Costas, and Earvin "Magic"Johnson.
Here were the results:
Team Pick The stand-in GM
----- ------ ---------------
1.Orlando Magic Chris Webber Magic Johnson
2.Philadelphia 76ers Sean Bradley Bill Walton
3.Golden State Warriors Jamaal Mashburn Bob Costas
4.Dallas Mavericks Rodney Rogers Peter Vescey
5.Minnesota Timberwolves Calbert Cheaney Magic Johnson
6.Washington Bullets Afernee Hardaway Bill Walton
7.Sacremento Kings Bobby Hurley Bob Costas
8.Milwaukee(?) Bucks JR Rider Peter Vescey
9.Denver Nuggets Vin Baker Peter Vescey
10.Detroit Pistons Acie Earl Bill Walton
11.Detroit Pistons Allan Houston Bob Costas
12.Los Angeles Lakers Sam Mills Magic Johnson
Comments:
--------
Quinn Buckner, a basketball analyst for NBC and new coach of the Mavs
for the '93-'94 season, didn't participate in the mock draft
because he didn't want to give a hint on his draft
possibilities.
Peter Vescey said that Jerry West(GM of the Lakers) thinks that JR Rider is the
best player in the draft.
Bob Costas (defending his pick of Hurley) felt that Hurley was
needed because Costas felt Spudd Webb should sit and Hurley
would be a good fit to take over the starting job at point.
Peter Vescey (defending his pick of Rodney Rogers) felt that the
Mavs would trade for Derek Harper for a point guard.
After Magic Johnson made his pick of Sam Mills, he was asked
by Costas about how close he was to making the actual decision
for the Lakers' draft. Johnson responded that if current coach
Randy Pfund and the Lakers hadn't performed well against the Suns,
it would have been a very high possibility that Magic would
have been the new coach. Magic went on that say that he
would, however, like a deal that Don "Nellie" Nelson has with
Warriors in that he would own part of the team. Magic also put
aside rumors that he was in the running for the LA Clippers' job.
He acknowledged he talked to some players on the Clippers team
and those players wanted him to be the coach, but again it came
down to if he was going to coach, he would also own a part of
the team.
|
| 10.518 | | ROYALT::ASHE | RedSox, Northwestern, Lucci | Tue Jun 01 1993 20:08 | 2 |
| I hope the Pistons can use Rodman to move up... they need a center.
Houston is a great player, but they need to build up front.
|
| 10.519 | | CGOOA::DEVLIN | LayinInBedJustLikeBrianWilsonDid | Wed Jun 02 1993 14:33 | 13 |
|
Oh MIkey, calling me an idiot. Oh, so Christian of you. I'm just
amazed that someone with the self-proclaimed hoops magic you profess to
have, who can denigrate Tommy B. and others, didn't have a clue who Bob
Pettit was.
And Brucey - I really love you. You are correct all the time. Keep up
the watch dog routine though. Little Mikey needs yer help and aid.
Stick to getting your 'overcoat' thrills letching on the neighbors.
JD
|
| 10.521 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Wed Jun 02 1993 15:40 | 29 |
| > And Brucey - I really love you.
Ya know, you are given a name like Bruce and live in SF for a while,
and people make assumptions. Sorry JD, I'm not that way (although
there's nothing wrong with that).
> You are correct all the time.
Took a while, but you are finally coming around.
> Keep up the watch dog routine though. Little Mikey needs yer help and
> aid.
Mike's a big boy, and can take care of himself.
> Stick to getting your 'overcoat' thrills letching on the neighbors.
Sorry, didn't know this offended anyone (maybe you could post a reply in
whiney::prude.note). I believe the whole neighbor thing started when I
entered something in the junk note (hint). It has sort of taken on a
life of it's own, with as many replies from other noters as myself. If
it insults your puritanical morals, I will stop talking about it, though.
brews
JD
|
| 10.522 | Carolina Connection alive and well in the faintastic (NOT!) NBA ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Jun 02 1993 15:51 | 35 |
| Carolina players still remaining in the NBA's sordid version of the
"Final 4" (ha!):
o George Karl, Seattle Supersonics head coach. Fiesty and
knowledgeable, learned the game under Dean while maining the
point.
o Sam Perkins, C/PF, Seattle. Steal ACC Chris' all-time favorite
Heel. Nobody but nobody is within shouting distance of his
rebounding record. Played for BobKnight on the '84 Gold Medal
team, and Bob called Silent Sam "The most coachable player I've
ever been around."
o Hubert Davis, G, NY Knicks. Recruited by nobody, Dean molded Walter
D's nephew into a complete ballplayer, although it's his deadly
shooting that gives him his niche in the Darwinian NBA.
o Michael Jordan, G, da Bulls. 'Nuf said.
o Scott Williams, C, da Bulls. Highly intelligent Heel who overcame
a huge family crisis (father shot mother, then himself) while at
Chapel Hill. Has carved out a nice playing role for himself in
Chicago, not to mention a nice paycheck.
Since Phoenix is the only team that's Heel-less (combined with their
inexplicably leaving Walter Davis off their "All-Time" team) I gotta go
with:
1. Chicago or Seattle. (Both have 2 Carolina grads apiece)
2. NY Knicks (Hubie sees only a limited role, and the Knicks are
thugs.)
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.523 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Oxymoron:Clinton's Trust Fund | Wed Jun 02 1993 16:01 | 2 |
| If .522 doesn't get more people in here on the Suns bandwagon, nothing
will.
|
| 10.524 | Thanks for the insight Chris..... GO SUNS ! | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Will Note for food | Wed Jun 02 1993 18:28 | 0 |
| 10.525 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Jun 02 1993 19:44 | 7 |
| It really shows a person's maturity level when he gets his po' wittle
feewings hurt and has to attack an irrelevant issue that falls under
'valueing differences.'
Being an idiot is not as unique, but I'll try to value your difference
from now on. Just keep doing your impersonation of a clanging cymbal
and those that haven't figured you out by now will do so shortly.
|
| 10.526 | | ROYALT::ASHE | RedSox, Northwestern, Lucci | Wed Jun 02 1993 21:11 | 2 |
| Huh?
|
| 10.527 | | CAMONE::WAY | Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate | Thu Jun 03 1993 13:09 | 9 |
| I've been an idiot from time to time and it's really kind of fun.
It's not quite as fun as being a moron, but it's a little easier to
be an idiot. To be a moron is hard work.
Here's to rampant idiocy!
'Saw
|
| 10.528 | or is that like the movie "Charlie"(Cliff Robertson)? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Jun 03 1993 13:19 | 11 |
|
Yabbut Saw,
Is that anything like rugby?
;^)
I remain,
fond of fun myself!
Kev
|
| 10.529 | Patrick Ewing played a great game | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is standing - walking soon!!! | Thu Jun 03 1993 13:23 | 24 |
| re: .527
As Dickstah would have said:
"We are morons tried and true...
Now we'll do our yell for you..."
Moe, Larry and Curley - great poets (actually, Shemp should be credited with
the above ditty.
re: Knicks/Bulls
I admit the Bulls came up big when it counted, but he Knicks clearly showed a
lack of poise. Starks, in particular, made several give-aways in the fourth
quarter. Could it be that the "greatest coach in professional sports"
(cough-cough) didn't have things under control?
I felt bad for Patrick Ewing, he was giving it everything he had, but his
supporting cast wasn't there. Also, I still haven't decided about Scottie
Pippin yet (most overrated player in the NBA, or superstar in the shadow of
Jordan), but he did make a gem of a defensive play on Charles Smith as time
ran out.
=Bob=
|
| 10.530 | (8^)* | PFSVAX::JACOB | Cannibals think clowns taste funny | Thu Jun 03 1993 13:30 | 10 |
|
>>To be a moron is hard work.
Ain't that tough.
Or so I hear.
JaKe
|
| 10.531 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is standing - walking soon!!! | Thu Jun 03 1993 13:30 | 5 |
| Oh, and how 'bout them yuppy Knick fains, shouting "Bull**it, bull**it..." at
every call against the Knicks. What would their prep school class advisors say
if they heard that?
=Bob=
|
| 10.532 | | CGOOA::DEVLIN | LayinInBedJustLikeBrianWilsonDid | Thu Jun 03 1993 14:08 | 12 |
| But Bruce and little teeny weeny Mikey -
Here I am replying to notes in the same spirit as you guys, and then
you can't take it? What gives?
Perhaps I shoulda done the [isfh] thing, but I thought too mature lunch
pail guys like yerselves would understand.
And Mikey - you seem to be in a poor mood lately, what's the matter,
some Droods move into the neighborhood?
JD
|
| 10.533 | No coach inspires the loyalty of Dean. :^) (Go Sonics!!) | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Jun 03 1993 14:52 | 5 |
| Anybody catch George Karl's halftime interview? I couldn't give a dang
what he said, but that UNC hat he was wearin' was a thing of beauty!
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.534 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Inside Intel, but no Intel inside | Thu Jun 03 1993 15:39 | 7 |
|
JD, What are you talking about not being able to take it. And I don't
know what "spirit" you thought I was replying in, but I didn't see
anything close to what you did. You seem to be the one whining anyway,
not me.
brews
|
| 10.535 | my last on this subject | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu Jun 03 1993 19:02 | 3 |
| JD, looks to me like the "spirit" of provocation was started with
condescending replies .509 and .519. Say what you will about my "mood"
but you asked for it.
|
| 10.536 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jun 03 1993 19:34 | 2 |
| I suggest that JD, Brews and MikeH take this to a soccer field and
settle this.
|
| 10.537 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu Jun 03 1993 19:44 | 24 |
| We would but the ruggers are using them. We'll have to use the rugby
fields instead.
Article 41466 of rec.sport.basketball.pro:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Wooden picks best center
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Yes, that was legendary UCLA coach John Wooden in the Shaq commercials.
Bill Walton told an interesting story to Bob Costas about the filming
of one of the Shaq commercials. Before the cameras, Wooden was flanked
by Shaq and four of the NBA's greatest centers of all time -- Chamberlain,
Russell, Kareem, and Walton. Chamberlain yelled out,
"Hey coach, which one of us would start for you?"
Walton said that Wooden answered without any hesitation, as if he
had anticipated this question. He answered with the rhetorical question,
"Which one of you has won 3 NCAA championships?"
The answer of course is Kareem.
terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
|
| 10.538 | | CAMONE::WAY | Ruggers eat their dead | Thu Jun 03 1993 19:47 | 6 |
| I haard that program with Costas. It was on WFAN last Sunday evening.
It was interesting to hear Walton tell some stories....
'Saw
|
| 10.539 | his mistake | CNTROL::CHILDS | Clemens caught without his cape AGAIN! | Thu Jun 03 1993 19:56 | 2 |
|
and I'll start Russell and kick Wooden's team silly.....
|
| 10.540 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jun 03 1993 20:04 | 4 |
|
MikeC you keep surprising us :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.541 | Willis Reed? | CNTROL::CHILDS | Clemens caught without his cape AGAIN! | Thu Jun 03 1993 20:13 | 11 |
| <<< Note 10.540 by METSNY::francus "Mets in '93" >>>
>> MikeC you keep surprising us :-)
The Crazy Met
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well who would you start?
mike
|
| 10.542 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jun 03 1993 21:00 | 4 |
|
At their best? Probably Walton or Kareem
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.543 | Anybody else got a preference? | CNTROL::CHILDS | Clemens caught without his cape AGAIN! | Fri Jun 04 1993 13:41 | 8 |
|
Defense wins Championships!
So who is either Walton or Kareem? Don't be wishy-washy make a choice...
It must be killin' Ack Ack that there's no Star Heels in there for him
to choose....
mike
|
| 10.544 | Stupid remark, and big-time egotistical, too. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Fri Jun 04 1993 14:14 | 7 |
| John Wooden's also the dork who said recently that he thought it was
actually *easier* to win_a NCAA Title now than in his day.
Ha ha ha!!!!1111
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.546 | Russell, hands down | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Fri Jun 04 1993 14:17 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.547 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | Paying for decades of Demo.Congress | Fri Jun 04 1993 14:28 | 28 |
| > -< Stupid remark, and big-time egotistical, too. >-
>
> John Wooden's also the dork who said recently that he thought it was
> actually *easier* to win_a NCAA Title now than in his day.
>
> Ha ha ha!!!!1111
>
>
> - ACC Chris
Let's see, Wooden's a stupid, egotistical dork. Hmmm.....
Let's see, HOF Dean Smith won 0 titles during Wooden's day and 2 since
he retired. Hmmm.....
Let's see, in Wooden's day only 1 team per conference could go to the
tournament. A lot of the great teams of his day didn't even get a chance
to play in the NCAA's, because there was one team slightly better in the
regular season. Per the rules of Wooden's day, UNC wouldn't have been
NCAA champs last year. Do you know that in Alcindor's last season, USC
was not only #2 in the Pacific Eight but #2 in the country heading into
their season ending clash with UCLA ? Tough league then. How many of the
NCAA finalists in recent seasons wouldn't even have been in the NCAA
tournament per the rules of Wooden's day ? Hmmm.....
Could be that his remark at least has some merit. Nah, ACChris says
he's a dork making stupid, egotistical comments. Who are you going to
believe ?
|
| 10.548 | I think it's time to say it: Dean > Wooden. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Fri Jun 04 1993 14:38 | 14 |
| > Who are you going to believe?
Good point Mr.Rollins. Gooooood point. Personally, I believe myself
when it comes to a_analysis of whether it was easier to win a Title
then versus now, thankee very much.
Wooden is so far off on this it's downright hilarious, but the reel
scary part is a glimpse into the humongous ego of this by-gone talent
monger. (UCLA was the Microsoft of it's day, what with its predatory
recruiting practices that had its 3rd team with more talent than 95% of
the countries first.)
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.549 | :^| | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Fri Jun 04 1993 14:38 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.550 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is standing - walking soon!!! | Fri Jun 04 1993 14:50 | 8 |
| John Wooden has more hoop knowledge in his little finger than Snuffy has in
his entire nose and the rest of his body. We're talking a bonna fide legend
here.
That said, based on collegiate careers, it's a toss up between Russell and
Jabbar, based on pro - Russell hands down.
=Bob=
|
| 10.551 | Let's be blunt: Wooden was and is *OVERRATED*. | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Fri Jun 04 1993 15:05 | 27 |
| re: =Bob=
With all them equal signs in your p-name Bob you should have no problem
with these mathematical questions:
1. Who's won more games, Wooden or Dean?
2. Who's won more NCAA Tournament games, Wooden or Dean?
All this despite the fact that Dean coached during a much more
difficult era in a conference that's light years better than the
Pac-8/10 ever dreamed of. Dean also proved (and continues to prove)
to be a better innovator, developing and advancing the coaching
profession by significant bounds. Dean also has turned out more and
better coaches than Wooden, always a solid benchmark when measuring
coaching excellence.
I'll grant Wooden his due in terms of Titles, but clearly
that statistic is tainted (when comparing eras) considering the
tremendous talent disparity. In todays game of parity, where there's
at least 1 or 2 hundred Division 1-A caliber prep players coming out of
HS, any one of whom could become the next Scottie Pippen, it's
absolutely impossible to dominate the way Wooden did. Amazingly enough
though, Dean has managed to maintain unparalleled consistent
excellence.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.552 | You've hung yourself, ACChris, the numbers don't lie | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Jun 04 1993 15:10 | 28 |
|
> Good point Mr.Rollins. Gooooood point. Personally, I believe myself
> when it comes to a_analysis of whether it was easier to win a Title
> then versus now, thankee very much.
Nice try, and thanks for playing. By definition, one and only one team
wins the title in a given year, then and now. It is no easier and no
harder to win a title now versus then. What you meant to say was that
it was much easier for UCLA to win a title then, and much much harder
for everyone else. Why was that? If it were a priori "easier" then
everybody would have done what Wooden did, and obviously that doesn't
add up, logically. Dean was around then, why didn't he take Wooden out
if it was so "easy"?
So actually, if you take Wooden's claim literally, that it's easier
to win *a* (as in at least one) title today, he's absolutely correct-- a
lot more teams and coaches are doing so now. Even teams that wouldn't
have made the tourney in Wooden's day, much less even challenged UCLA.
Look it up.
As for the claim that John Wooden is "egotistical", that's not even
worth debating. There's probably no more humble, sportsmanlike, and
gentlemanly college coach in a job today. If Wooden were still
coaching today he'd be an anachronism, some kind of museum piece to
be mocked by the Billy Tubbs of the world...
glenn
|
| 10.553 | Worst case scenario: Wooden == Dean. | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Fri Jun 04 1993 15:17 | 6 |
| Waugmain agrees with Wooden - Titles easier to win now than then!
Haw haw haw!!!111
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.554 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Jun 04 1993 15:17 | 2 |
| Acchris, I thought we had an argreement that you would keep the Dean
Gushing in the ACC note...
|
| 10.555 | ACChris does 180... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Jun 04 1993 15:27 | 13 |
|
> Waugmain agrees with Wooden - Titles easier to win now than then!
You've admitted as much many times over. There's much more luck
involved, in both recruiting and winning, and where there's more
luck, skill is de-emphasized, and many more coaches can, will, and
have won *a* title. Wasn't that your position when you were laughing
at the Steve Fishers and Jerry Tarkanians and John Thompsons of the
world, before the Snuffer himself stumbled into a title and it suddenly
became so difficult?
glenn
|
| 10.557 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Madonna&Charles,SittingInATree... | Fri Jun 04 1993 16:27 | 6 |
| Russell played when men were men so he's gets the starting nod
without question. Snuffy lucks into a second title and all of a sudden
he better than the man who coached the second greatest basketball
dynasty of all time (and you all know who the first dynasty is...).
/Don
|
| 10.558 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Fri Jun 04 1993 16:34 | 8 |
|
I don't usually trey to compare players of different eras but I think Hakeem
would hand all of them their socks in today's NBA. With a few more years of
seasoning so would Shaq,and mourning and probaby Mr. Robinson
Metz
|
| 10.559 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Gunga Drain Indian type WaterBoy | Fri Jun 04 1993 17:12 | 8 |
|
I'll give you Hakeen and Mourning as in their class or potentially in it
but Robinson too soft and Shaq's just doesn't it get it. His heart
and mind are in orbit... You guys just don't get it. Russell's desire
to win was greater than any superior physical skills the other's posess.
mike
|
| 10.560 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Madonna&Charles,SittingInATree... | Fri Jun 04 1993 17:42 | 6 |
| And don't forget to factor in Russell's intelligence MikeC. A
huge part of his defensive intimidation was knowing when to block a
shot and turn a confident player into a bowl of jello. He was the
greatest winner in all of sports.
/Don
|
| 10.561 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is standing - walking soon!!! | Fri Jun 04 1993 20:11 | 9 |
| Hakeem and Morning played close to Russell calabre basketball for *one* season.
Russell was great every year after his rookie year.
Shaq is close,in that he sets the tone of the game the way Russell did, but his
game just isn't as well rounded.
jmho
=Bob=
|
| 10.562 | The new MAN in the NBA.. | CNTROL::CHILDS | Gunga Drain Indian type WaterBoy | Mon Jun 07 1993 12:52 | 10 |
|
Hakeem and Morning played close to Russell calabre basketball for *one* season.
Russell was great every year after his rookie year.
SO the above statement removes Hakeem from the equation and leaves us with only
Mourning with a chance to be the next Russell....let me think about that a
bit...
;^)!!!!!!!!!
|
| 10.563 | Playoff Prediction standings | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Jun 07 1993 16:25 | 10 |
| Only 3 left with a shot at first place; TCM and Walt are eliminated.
Slasher, who did you pick in the East?
Noter W L Rounds Finals
----------------------------------------------------------
Heiser 12-2 (3 rounds - .303,.450) Phoenix - Chicago
Slasher 10-3 (3 rounds - .274,.346,.450) Phoenix - ?
Chappy 10-4 (3 rounds - .307,.450) Seattle - Chicago
TCM 9-5 (3 rounds - .309,.450) Seattle - New York
Ashe 7-7 (3 rounds - .304,.306..450) Seattle - New York
|
| 10.564 | point guard ratings | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Jun 07 1993 20:52 | 32 |
| Here are some stats for seasons '90-'91 & '91-'92 combined (I'll do
this season later).
KJ is #3 overall (#4 - minutes, #3 - scoring, #5 - rebounds, #2 - assists, #10 - defense)
Player Team PO GP MIN PTS REBT AST STL BLKS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg DEC
Stockton UTH G 164 6105 2710 507 2290 478 38 6023 37.2 16.5 3.09 14.0 3.15 141.4
Hardaway GSW G 163 6547 3774 642 1600 378 25 6419 40.2 23.2 3.94 9.82 2.47 130.7
Johnson PHO G 155 5666 3246 563 1617 279 34 5739 36.6 20.9 3.63 10.4 2.02 121.4
Adams WAS G 144 5141 3160 566 1287 292 15 5320 35.7 21.9 3.93 8.94 2.13 121.3
Strickland POR G 115 4129 1587 484 954 235 28 3288 35.9 13.8 4.21 8.30 2.29 115.5
Blaylock ATL G 144 5133 2013 518 933 339 80 3883 35.6 14.0 3.60 6.48 2.91 112.4
Richardson IND G 164 6076 2751 587 1419 250 38 5045 37.0 16.8 3.58 8.65 1.76 106.4
Williams MIN G 152 4456 2001 458 995 383 39 3876 29.3 13.2 3.01 6.55 2.78 104.6
Thomas DET G 126 4575 2221 407 1006 193 25 3852 36.3 17.6 3.23 7.98 1.73 101.3
Porter POR G 163 5448 2866 537 1126 285 24 4838 33.4 17.6 3.29 6.91 1.90 100.2
Harper DAL G 142 5132 2671 403 921 248 31 4274 36.1 18.8 2.84 6.49 1.96 96.77
Price CLE G 88 2709 1518 218 701 136 14 2587 30.8 17.3 2.48 7.97 1.70 93.65
Bogues CHA G 163 5089 1298 451 1412 307 9 3477 31.2 7.96 2.77 8.66 1.94 92.93
Payton SEA G 163 4793 1352 538 1034 312 36 3272 29.4 8.29 3.30 6.34 2.13 92.37
Rivers NYK G 138 4248 1838 400 573 259 66 3136 30.8 13.3 2.90 4.15 2.36 88.84
Skiles ORL G 154 5091 2414 472 1204 163 9 4262 33.1 15.7 3.06 7.82 1.12 88.39
Webb SAC G 152 4920 2234 397 964 243 30 3868 32.4 14.7 2.61 6.34 1.80 87.64
Jackson LAC G 153 4056 1546 502 1146 172 22 3388 26.5 10.1 3.28 7.49 1.27 85.75
Smith HOU G 159 5434 2517 340 1116 210 18 4201 34.2 15.8 2.14 7.02 1.43 81.77
Douglas BOS G 115 3314 1660 272 796 146 14 2888 28.8 14.4 2.37 6.92 1.39 81.46
Threatt LAL G 162 5136 2253 352 866 281 24 3776 31.7 13.9 2.17 5.35 1.88 80.45
Dawkins PHI G 86 2939 1051 243 595 92 5 1986 34.2 12.2 2.83 6.92 1.13 79.61
Brown BOS G 113 2828 1075 261 508 116 21 1981 25.0 9.51 2.31 4.50 1.21 64.50
Armstrong CHI G 164 3606 1529 294 567 116 9 2515 22.0 9.32 1.79 3.46 .762 49.31
Jackson DEN G 148 3043 1779 235 398 99 8 2519 20.6 12.0 1.59 2.69 .723 46.75
Johnson SAS G 137 2194 706 157 496 108 13 1480 16.0 5.15 1.15 3.62 .883 41.62
|
| 10.565 | Some expected headlines this week | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Ex-noter no more | Mon Jun 07 1993 21:44 | 21 |
| Copied from the Denver post without permission:
New book states Jordan dropped 2.3 million playing "Go Fish". He says loses are
only $2.30.
Referee sues Barkley for assault with a deadly finger.
Jordan out past midnight at Phoenix's Sun City Gambling on Bocce ball.
Barkley call fans at Chicago Stadium Lame-brained lunatics, later apologizes
to asylum inmates for insult.
Jordan refuses to talk to press, but agrees to appear on "Oprah" with
transvestites who've had affairs with themselves.
Barkley spotted in nightclub with playboy bunny and Energizer bunny, Love tapes
discovered.
|
| 10.566 | best all-around point guard in the NBA | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Jun 07 1993 22:29 | 34 |
| If you include this season, not much changes. If anyone has the
'89-'90 season stats online, I'd appreciate a copy. That was the year
KJ won Most Improved Player, was second in assists to only Magic, and
became only the 3rd person in NBA history to average *over* 20ppg and
10apg in a season. That alone should take him from #3 to #1 over the
last few seasons.
Player Team PO GP MIN PTS REBT AST STL BLKS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg DEC
Stockton UTH G 246 8968 3949 744 3277 677 59 8706 36.5 16.1 3.02 13.3 2.99 135.5
Hardaway GSW G 229 9156 5193 905 2299 494 37 8928 40.0 22.7 3.95 10.0 2.32 128.5
Johnson PHO G 204 7309 4037 667 2001 364 53 7122 35.8 19.8 3.27 9.81 2.04 114.7
Blaylock ATL G 224 7953 3082 798 1604 542 103 6129 35.5 13.8 3.56 7.16 2.88 113.8
Adams WAS G 214 7640 4195 806 1813 392 19 7225 35.7 19.6 3.77 8.47 1.92 112.2
Strickland POR G 193 6603 2656 821 1513 366 52 5408 34.2 13.8 4.25 7.84 2.17 111.9
Williams MIN G 228 7117 3152 731 1652 549 62 6146 31.2 13.8 3.21 7.25 2.68 108.1
Richardson IND G 237 8427 3509 848 1983 342 50 6732 35.6 14.8 3.58 8.37 1.65 101.4
Thomas DET G 205 7497 3612 639 1677 316 43 6287 36.6 17.6 3.12 8.18 1.75 100.9
Porter POR G 244 8331 4342 853 1545 386 34 7160 34.1 17.8 3.50 6.33 1.72 97.20
Bogues CHA G 244 7922 2106 749 2123 468 13 5459 32.5 8.63 3.07 8.70 1.97 96.62
Jackson LAC G 235 7173 2727 890 1870 308 34 5829 30.5 11.6 3.79 7.96 1.46 95.64
Payton SEA G 245 7341 2462 819 1433 489 57 5260 30.0 10.0 3.34 5.85 2.23 93.77
Price CLE G 163 5089 2883 419 1298 225 25 4850 31.2 17.7 2.57 7.96 1.53 92.13
Skiles ORL G 232 8177 3615 762 1939 249 11 6576 35.2 15.6 3.28 8.36 1.12 91.72
Harper DAL G 204 7240 3797 526 1255 328 47 5953 35.5 18.6 2.58 6.15 1.84 90.96
Webb SAC G 221 7245 3234 590 1445 347 36 5652 32.8 14.6 2.67 6.54 1.73 87.66
Threatt LAL G 244 8029 3488 625 1430 423 35 6001 32.9 14.3 2.56 5.86 1.88 85.99
Rivers NYK G 215 6134 2442 592 970 384 75 4463 28.5 11.4 2.75 4.51 2.13 83.59
Smith HOU G 241 7856 3582 500 1560 290 25 5957 32.6 14.9 2.07 6.47 1.31 76.13
Brown BOS G 193 5082 1949 507 969 254 52 3731 26.3 10.1 2.63 5.02 1.59 75.02
Douglas BOS G 194 5246 2278 434 1304 195 24 4235 27.0 11.7 2.24 6.72 1.13 72.74
Dawkins PHI G 160 4537 1706 379 934 172 9 3200 28.4 10.7 2.37 5.84 1.13 69.62
Jackson DEN G 229 5754 3332 460 742 183 16 4733 25.1 14.6 2.01 3.24 .869 56.95
Johnson SAS G 212 4224 1362 303 1057 193 29 2944 19.9 6.42 1.43 4.99 1.05 52.71
Armstrong CHI G 245 6061 2522 442 892 182 16 4054 24.7 10.3 1.80 3.64 .808 51.46
|
| 10.567 | Only if convenient? | ROYALT::ASHE | RedSox, Northwestern, Lucci | Tue Jun 08 1993 04:46 | 2 |
| I thought the key was waht was going on now, not what has happened over
the last 4 years...
|
| 10.568 | another accident | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Tue Jun 08 1993 04:47 | 5 |
| ESPN report that Drazen Petrovic was killed in a car accident in
Germany. AP says that Petrovic's attorney confirms this report.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.569 | | ROYALT::ASHE | RedSox, Northwestern, Lucci | Tue Jun 08 1993 13:54 | 3 |
| Petrovic's contract was up. He was unhappy and thought about returning
to Europe. He wanted a bigger role on the team, but I think the
happenings in Croatia may have had an impact as well...
|
| 10.570 | simple | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 08 1993 14:54 | 2 |
| Walt, I already know he's been the best PG since March. I'm looking
for consistentcy over the long haul.
|
| 10.571 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Canseco,Barkley,/Don? | Tue Jun 08 1993 15:17 | 5 |
|
If you factor in the injuries, there is no way you can say he is
consistent over the long haul.
brews
|
| 10.572 | | ROYALT::ASHE | RedSox, Northwestern, Lucci | Tue Jun 08 1993 17:07 | 4 |
| You're looking to tailor your stats to support your claim. One year
doesn't do it. Two... three... maybe 4... I bet if I took a certain
time frame, I could do it to support anyone else...
|
| 10.574 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Don Cherry and Seinfeld Roolz | Tue Jun 08 1993 17:29 | 5 |
| The Tiny Princess was in USA Today saying he "has a chip on his
shoulder..." Po' KJ. Tough being a faux toughguy with a bad
haircut...
JD
|
| 10.575 | More injuries than Hart Lee Dykes... | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Tue Jun 08 1993 18:56 | 9 |
|
I think the correct title is PIT - Princess in training..when Isaiah drops out
to persue his Speedy printing career full time he'll leave knowing that there is
a fully trained princess to carry on the tradition...
A part time player being the best point guard in the NBA....what a laugh...
Metz
|
| 10.576 | | ROYALT::ASHE | RedSox, Northwestern, Lucci | Tue Jun 08 1993 20:09 | 1 |
| re .573... but am I wrong?
|
| 10.578 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 08 1993 20:53 | 10 |
| JD, try to keep up. You obviously missed the KJ-Magic interview on
Saturday.
I'm not fudging anything. Run the stats from March on and tell me
who's #1. BTW - What are Stockton (#1) and Hardaway (#2) doing now?
Hardaway probably missed more games than KJ this year.
Metz, you have the Clemson impersonation down pat. If Seattle had a PG
like KJ instead of the faux_PG in Payton, Phoenix would be watching the
Finals on TV.
|
| 10.579 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jun 08 1993 20:56 | 5 |
| 10.580 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 08 1993 21:00 | 6 |
| > How far has KJ gone in the playoffs before Charles was put in charge?
Conference finals - twice. Same goes for Stockton and he has the
Mailman. Hardaway hasn't gotten that far yet and he has Mullin.
Obtaining a Dream Teamer allowed KJ to work on the same playing surface
as those two and he's passed them already in results.
|
| 10.581 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jun 08 1993 21:06 | 4 |
| 10.582 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 08 1993 21:36 | 1 |
| Stockton & Hardaway have never been on a conference champion team.
|
| 10.583 | | DECWET::METZGER | Imagine your logo here. | Tue Jun 08 1993 22:04 | 13 |
|
So now two guys make a team? Last time I watched a hoop game there were 5 guys
in the same uniform on the floor at the same time. And there were even more
guys on the bench in the same uniform that played some time in the game as
well.
The best guard in the game is still playing for the Bulls...even though
he's classified as a shooting guard he's a better point guard than KJ will
ever be.
And he plays more than 70 games a year as well...
Metz
|
| 10.584 | He's just not... | ROYALT::ASHE | Saw: Home of the Big Johnson catalog | Wed Jun 09 1993 01:20 | 7 |
| I've got stats from January and May... here's the difference...
KJ 29 games, 68 reb, 242 asst, 58 stl+blk, 477 pts (78 rating)
Stockton 40 games, 107 reb, 483 asst, 104 stl+blk, 630 pts (101.25)
Hardaway 23 games, 90 reb, 218 asst, 48 blk+stl, 474 pts (93.3 rating)
I'll stop there... let me know where I went wrong...
|
| 10.585 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Jun 09 1993 13:14 | 5 |
| 10.586 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Don Cherry and Seinfeld Roolz | Wed Jun 09 1993 13:49 | 7 |
| Mikey -
No, I didn't see the KJ/Magic interview. I'm sure it scanned the
height of in depth journalism. I have far better things to do
than watch The Tiny Princess have an interview.
JD
|
| 10.587 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Jun 09 1993 14:48 | 7 |
| > The way this reads it led me to believe that both KJ and Stockton had
> been to the Conference Finals twice.
that's correct, Mac.
Walt, your rating system seems suspicious. Hardaway has lower numbers
yet a higher rating.
|
| 10.588 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Gunga Drain Indian type WaterBoy | Wed Jun 09 1993 15:02 | 10 |
|
off the top of my head I remember Hardeway playing less games than
KJ but more rebounds and points. Makes sense that he would have a
higher rating. I found the rebounding one kind of strange. I'd figure
a guy with a chip on his shoulders, would be down there bang with the
big boys and pull in more boards....
mike
ps. maybe Chaz told him not to steal any of his boards???
|
| 10.589 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Saw: Home of the Big Johnson catalog | Wed Jun 09 1993 17:07 | 1 |
| Fewer games Mike... Hardaway played 6 fewer games than KJ...
|
| 10.590 | only big difference is Hardaway's rank | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Jun 09 1993 19:28 | 7 |
| Using those stats in my formula, here are the ratings:
Stockton - 121.8
Hardaway - 120.6
KJ - 97.2
I'd still like to see February-April included.
|
| 10.591 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Saw: Home of the Big Johnson catalog | Wed Jun 09 1993 20:11 | 12 |
| That included games from Feb 1, 1993 (or there abouts, that's the
date I loaded the stats) to around May 13, 1993 (again, when I loaded
the stats).
That INCLUDES Feb-April... either way, KJ is NOT the top point guard.
I didn't try to punch in the likes of Bogues, Blaylock and others.
And that's assuming you don't include Jordan as a point guard, which
can be debated since he does most of the ball handling and had more
assists than Armstrong.
So how can you say KJ was the best PG in the NBA based on your own
stats?
|
| 10.592 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Saw: Home of the Big Johnson catalog | Wed Jun 09 1993 20:26 | 9 |
| Sorry, I just tried Bogues and Blaylock.
Bogues 40 games, 131 reb, 318 asst, 79 stl+blk, 359 pts (71 rating)
Also, I only have Blaylock's stats from Mar-Jun. I must have
overwritten it, but I'd be willing to predict they're not going to
change much:
Blaylock 26 games, 89 reb, 263 asst, 83 blk+stl, 324 pts (94.8 rating)
|
| 10.593 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Saw: Home of the Big Johnson catalog | Wed Jun 09 1993 20:41 | 9 |
| Two more to knock KJ out of the top 5...
Scott Skiles: 622 pts, 159 reb, 374 asst, 48 stl+blk, 40 games (80.6)
M. Williams: 647 pts, 139 reb, 335 assts, 92 stl+blk, 40 games (83+)
If you get a chance Mike, let me know where Mark Jackson comes in too.
thanks..
|
| 10.594 | Well, we'll soon find out about kj | AKOCOA::BREEN | But in the land of the one-eyed men | Wed Jun 09 1993 20:53 | 9 |
| we shall quickly see where kj ranks tonight and next two weeks as well
as barkley.
suns need supreme effort and results from both to win, probably more
from kj as he has a chance to dramatically outplay paxson and
armstrong.
So by june 23rd (would that be end?) we will not needs stats which are
somewhat useful in regular season but obviously no longer needed
|
| 10.595 | and the only one still playing | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Wed Jun 09 1993 21:30 | 3 |
| If you were starting a team, who would you pick between KJ, Skiles,
Blaylock, or Jackson? I think KJ has been playing the best of all of
them since the All-Star break.
|
| 10.596 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Saw: Home of the Big Johnson catalog | Wed Jun 09 1993 21:37 | 20 |
| In your opinion, but not based on the stats... if you base your opinion
on something without facts to back it up, that's your prerogative...
Like I said, you can include Jordan in that if you really want to...
>If you were starting a team, who would you pick between KJ, Skiles,
>Blaylock, or Jackson? I think KJ has been playing the best of all of
>them since the All-Star break.
Depends on the supporting cast. Right now, I'd probably take Blaylock.
Has Wilkins, so doesn't need to score. Has Willis, so doesn't need to
rebound. He blossomed this year, is younger, and fills the job of a
PG quite well, and doesn't seem to be as injury prone. Shot pretty
well from the field (37% from 3 pt. range). But I'd concentrate on a
center and inside on my first couple of choices and fit the point guard
to that style of play.
But then, if I had to choose any point guard for one year, I'd take
Isiah. For long term, probably Kenny Anderson. For the next few,
probably Hardaway.
|
| 10.597 | Kenny Anderson is Gawd!!!! ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Jun 10 1993 12:23 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.598 | Mookie | CNTROL::CHILDS | Gunga Drain Indian type WaterBoy | Thu Jun 10 1993 12:33 | 8 |
|
Right on Walt I'd take Blaylock over KJ in heart beat. Better defender
and more between his ears than the kid with the chip...
KJ showed so much potential 3 years ago and then done got an attitude
that has taken his game down the tubes.....
mike
|
| 10.599 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Thu Jun 10 1993 12:38 | 9 |
|
MikeH,
Please don't use the moronic line "who's the only one still left". By
that argument, the best two centers in the game are West and
Cartwright. Make your points and make them valid, don't be ludicrous.
Marc
|
| 10.600 | ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Jun 10 1993 13:17 | 4 |
| does .600 count for anything?
Kev_for_MikeH
|
| 10.601 | | AKOCOA::J_RODOPOULOS | | Thu Jun 10 1993 13:33 | 5 |
| Another vote for Blaylock over the others.
John "D Cowboys" R.
P.S. Hardaway would be my first choice
|
| 10.602 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jun 10 1993 16:23 | 4 |
| 10.603 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Momma's all right, daddy's all right | Thu Jun 10 1993 17:29 | 5 |
| And before MikeH laughs about still taking 'Zeke...
29games, 94 reb, 215 assts, 57 stl+blk, 611 pts, (rating 81.3)
KJ rated at 79...
|
| 10.604 | although I have Zeke on 1 rotis team | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu Jun 10 1993 18:26 | 3 |
| I'll still laugh about taking a modern-day Zeke, but not the Zeke of 10
years ago. KJ's in the top 3, I didn't look down far enough to see
what Zeke's done the past couple years.
|
| 10.605 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Momma's all right, daddy's all right | Thu Jun 10 1993 18:57 | 4 |
| You can laugh, but he played better than KJ... that says something
about KJ... and you can bet 'Zeke wouldn't have disappeared lasted
night.
|
| 10.606 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu Jun 10 1993 19:14 | 1 |
| didn't the Pistons lose their first game in the finals to L.A.?
|
| 10.607 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Momma's all right, daddy's all right | Thu Jun 10 1993 20:32 | 3 |
| They also lost their first series.... although I still think there's
3 seconds left on the clock in game 6...
|
| 10.608 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Canseco,Barkley,/Don? | Thu Jun 10 1993 20:43 | 2 |
| Walte, stop whining about that game 6, it was only 2 seconds.
|
| 10.609 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Momma's all right, daddy's all right | Thu Jun 10 1993 20:46 | 2 |
| Hey, it's too late to play it now. Just pointing out that the Pistons
didn't take it all their first series...
|
| 10.610 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jun 10 1993 20:55 | 5 |
|
Pistons won game 1 gainst the Lakers.
The 2 seconds remaining are in game 7 not game 6.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.611 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Momma's all right, daddy's all right | Thu Jun 10 1993 20:58 | 1 |
| Thanks TCM... I try to blot out that year...
|
| 10.612 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Canseco,Barkley,/Don? | Thu Jun 10 1993 21:12 | 5 |
| I was just giving you a bad time, Walte. Personally, I think you got a
legitimate beef, I mean it's not like the LAkers never blew a game in
the last seconds, before.
brews
|
| 10.613 | he wuz robbed | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Thu Jun 10 1993 22:09 | 1 |
| I agree Walt. Laimbeer never touched Kareem.
|
| 10.614 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Fri Jun 11 1993 00:56 | 9 |
| Amazing how .612 and .613 are written by Celtcs fans (.5 :-)
fwiw the Lakers in 1988 rarely if ever blew a game in the last seconds.
But there was definitely 2 seconds or so left with Detroit down by 3.
Could have been interesting.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.615 | I need the scoop | STRATA::GARRY | Dallas Cowboys back where they belong #1 | Fri Jun 11 1993 02:31 | 12 |
| I read in the paper that the western conf has lost 11 of their last 12
home games...i was wondering what they were so heres my guess..if I am
wrong can someone please correcr me;
1989 Det-LA LA was 0-2 at home
1990 Det-Port Port was 0-3 at home
1991 Chic-LA LA was 0-3 at home
1992 Chic-LA Port was 1-2 at home
1993 Chic-Pho Pho is currently 0-1 at home
Tom
|
| 10.616 | Nit | ELMAGO::BENBACA | Fig Pluckers Flick their Bic's! | Fri Jun 11 1993 04:38 | 1 |
| Chic played Port in 1992
|
| 10.617 | Agree. For 1 yr, Thomas is the guy I want. | USIC01::JGARBARINO | | Fri Jun 11 1993 14:22 | 6 |
| Walt,
I know you said that Thomas wants to finish a Piston, but does his
desire count for much with the Pistons' owner ? Seems to me that
club would be looking to trade veterans to get the young kids needed
to rebuild.
|
| 10.618 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Can u hear me, I've been calling all day | Fri Jun 11 1993 16:38 | 4 |
| PR move... Thomas can still play, he's not as far along as say, McHale
was this past year. The GM said the only three that are sure to be
back are Zeke, Laimbeer (will retire if traded) and Dumars. Leaves
guys like Mills, Rodman, Robertson and Aguirre on the block...
|
| 10.619 | an expert on KJ | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri Jun 11 1993 18:39 | 2 |
| "He and Hardaway are the best penetrators in the league." - John Bach,
Bull's defense coach
|
| 10.620 | | DECWET::METZGER | PBS = Profitable Barney Service | Fri Jun 11 1993 20:06 | 6 |
|
Candidate for set hidden...
I thought Wilt was the best?
Metz
|
| 10.621 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri Jun 11 1993 20:35 | 1 |
| I knew that was coming as soon as I pressed F10.
|
| 10.622 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Mon Jun 14 1993 05:32 | 13 |
| Game 3 was a classic basketball game; well almost. Classic in the sense
that it had drama all the way through the game. Not a classic in the
sense that both teams blew chances to win it. Suns had an 11 point lead
late in the 4th quarter. Bulls had a 4 point lead + the basketball in
the 2nd OT. But 3 Overtimes comes close to describing a classic game.
Magic Johnson really hit the nail on the head when he kept saying that
the teams have to go inside during the OT since they all seemed too
tired to get the outside shots to fall. The shot by Majerle was an
exception; both teams looked bad trying to hit from the outside.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.623 | I hope it was the Bulls | MACNAS::PRIDGE | Chicago Blackhawks Stanley Cup Finalists '92 | Mon Jun 14 1993 07:34 | 2 |
|
Who won?????????
|
| 10.624 | no the good guys won | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Jun 14 1993 14:30 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.625 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Madonna&Charles,SittingInATree... | Mon Jun 14 1993 16:26 | 4 |
| The Suns will be on their own now that NBC has a Friday night game
to televise.
/Don
|
| 10.626 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon Jun 14 1993 16:33 | 11 |
|
/er you disappoint me, I thought you had a better understanding of the
NBC/NBA conspiracy. The night that generally has the largest TV audience
is Sunday night. NBC will only have another Sunday night game if the
series goes 6 games.
First Tommy than /er, who next??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.627 | Petrovic memorial | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Tue Jun 15 1993 19:30 | 72 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (PETER SIMUNOVICH)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.top
Subject: Petrovic remembered at memorial mass
NEW YORK (UPI) -- Friends, fans and teammates of Drazen Petrovic
gathered Monday night to pay an emotional tribute to the New Jersey Nets
star guard, who was killed in a car accident last week.
Petrovic, 28, who died in a June 7 car crash in Germany, was mourned
by more than 1,100 who crowded into St. Cyril and Methodius Roman
Catholic Church in New York for a memorial mass to remember the player
affectionately called ``Petro'' by Nets fans and teammates.
Nets Vice President and General Manager Willis Reed said that the
Nets would honor Petrovic by retiring his No. 3 and that Nets players
would a band in Petrovic's honor next season.
Chris Dudley and Chris Morris, who along with Reed attended
Petrovic's funeral in Croatia last week, were the only Nets not present
at the tribute.
``The players will probably wear a band in his honor throughout next
season,'' Reed said following the 45-minute service. ``He will live in
our hearts forever.''
In a basement function after the service, Nets captain Sam Bowie with
tears in his eyes, emotionally recalled his friendship with Petrovic.
``On many occasions I used to watch cable TV and I saw bombs and guns
going off in the civil war where Drazen came from,'' Bowie said. ``He
then would come to my place and educate me about the Croats and
Serbians.
``Once after a game he said that someone had said he missed a three-
pointer because of pressure, but he said 'there is no pressure on me, I
try to create peace and harmony in my land.''
Bowie also remembered the times Petrovic would call him after a game
and say in a heavy accent: ``How about we go out and get something to
eat and I would say 'only if I paid.''' Invariably, Bowie was the guest
for dinner.
At the service, parents of New York's Croatian community brought
their children to pay last respects to their hero, who with basketball
talent would make them forget the fragmentation and deaths caused by the
civil war that has ravaged what was once Yugoslavia.
Mladen Grbic, a member of the church's choir, said Petrovic would
attend the church at 10th Ave. and 41st St. ``Drazen was a very nice
guy,'' said Grbic. ``I'm still not accepting it. My daughter (Barbara)
met him a few times and she took it badly.
``It was like losing a brother.''
Petrovic's father, who was in Croatia mourning his son's tragic
death, told Reed through an interpreter last week that Petrovic, who had
considering staying in Europe, would have returned to play with the Nets
next year.
``Drazen loved the New Jersey Nets, his greatest successes were with
the Nets and there was no doubt that he would have signed and gone back
to New Jersey,'' Petrovic's father told Reed.
The 960-seat church overflowed with mourners. To the right of the
altar, a white jersey with a red No. 3 and blue trimmings was made up of
flowers. To the left was a large photograph of Petrovic in his playing
uniform.
``Drazen was a hero to his nation, he was admired in the world of
sports and loved by his friends,'' Father Slavko Soldo said. ``He led
the Croatian team to challenge the mighty Dream Team (at the Barcelona
Olympics) and his key to success was dedication.
``He was driven to succeed. He was compelled to show the best Croatia
had to offer.''
Nets Coach Chuck Daly recalled how nine months ago the Nets had
assembled and started talking about contracts, winning, scores, rebounds
and travel, ``now in June we understand how fragile life is.''
``I remember when JFK (President Kennedy) died, we didn't get to know
him, that's how I remember Drazen,'' he said.
To the Croatian community in the New York and New Jersey area,
Petrovic was more than a talented basketball player.
Mario Nobilo, Croatia's permanent representative to the United
Nations, said Petrovic was ``a great man and an ambassador of Croatia.''
``During the hard times, all around the basketball world, the name
Drazen Petrovic, of Croatia, could be heard,'' he said.
``He introduced the values of Croatian basketball to the world. He
was and always will be our Hall of Famer.''
|
| 10.628 | The Czar leaves the booth | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR1-4/E13 237-2468 | Thu Jun 17 1993 18:43 | 3 |
| Mike Fratello was named coach of the Cavaliers today.
Mike
|
| 10.629 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Don Cherry and Seinfeld Roolz | Thu Jun 17 1993 18:48 | 1 |
| Parade in Cleveland!!!
|
| 10.630 | expansion? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Jun 17 1993 18:53 | 8 |
| Didn't I also hear something about some city being awarded a NBA
expansion franchise and Magic saying he'll have part ownership and CEO
responsibilities?
I remain,
probably hearing voices again.....
Kev
|
| 10.631 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Don Cherry and Seinfeld Roolz | Thu Jun 17 1993 18:57 | 6 |
| Kev -
Toronto was going for a franchise - was big news up in the great white
north. Magic was part of the ownership team.
JD
|
| 10.632 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Jun 18 1993 13:55 | 3 |
| Oh the irony. Fratello coaching the Cavaliers and Wilkens coaching the
Hawks. Actually they are good fits. Both have vast experience in
coaching underachievers.
|
| 10.633 | from NBC | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri Jun 18 1993 14:32 | 2 |
| Chuck Daly and Cotton Fitzsimmons are first in line to inherit the Czar
Telestrator position.
|
| 10.634 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Be My, Be My Yoko Ono... | Fri Jun 18 1993 14:34 | 5 |
| Isn't Daly still with the Nets? Are you talking taking over for
Fratello? If that's the case, then Cotton should have it wrapped
up.
JD
|
| 10.635 | | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri Jun 18 1993 14:41 | 2 |
| Yeah JD, Fratello's replacement. Maybe Daly is having second thoughts
about coaching?
|
| 10.636 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Fri Jun 18 1993 15:36 | 4 |
|
Look what happened to Daly's team since the season ended.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.637 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I can't tell you why... | Fri Jun 18 1993 16:46 | 3 |
| What? He lost a guard... what else? Dudley isn't gone for sure is
he?
|
| 10.638 | da troof, just heard them on the radio | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri Jun 18 1993 19:15 | 2 |
| Chicago merchants are hoping for a Suns' win to save their businesses
from rioting.
|
| 10.639 | Suns bulletin board fodder | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Fri Jun 18 1993 19:27 | 1 |
| Chicago media is already airing PSA's asking folks not to riot tonight.
|
| 10.640 | Just say NO to wanton destruction... | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Fri Jun 18 1993 20:21 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.641 | first deal of summer | FRETZ::HEISER | raise your voice in shouts of joy | Mon Jun 21 1993 22:58 | 1 |
| The Lakers have traded Benoit Benjamin to the Nets for Sam Bowie.
|
| 10.642 | | DECWET::METZGER | PBS = Profitable Barney Station | Mon Jun 21 1993 23:17 | 4 |
|
Ben should just keep a suitcase packed at all times...
Metz
|
| 10.643 | Unrestricted Free Agents, some are already signed | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Tue Jun 22 1993 18:23 | 21 |
| NBA UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS, as of July 1, 1993:
1. Vincent Askew 2. John Bagley 3. Manute Bol
4. Randy Breuer 5. Chucky Brown 6. Maurice Cheeks
7. Lester Conner 8. James Donaldson 9. Greg Dreiling
10. Chris Dudley 11. Kevin Edwards 12. Craig Ehlo
13. Winston Garland 14. Greg Grant 15. A.C. Green
16. Jack Haley 17. Tom Hammonds 18. Scott Hastings
19. Rod Higgins 20. Avery Johnson 21. Frank Johnson
22. Charles Jones 23. Steve Kerr 24. Bernard King
25. Joe Kleine 26. Larry Krystkowiak 27. Jerome Lane
28. Andrew Lang 29. Moses Malone 30. Bob McCann
31. Rodney McCray 32. Kevin McHale 33. Ed Nealy
34. Ken Norman 35. Robert Parish 36. Gary Plummer
37. Kurt Rambis 38. Fred Roberts 39. Wayne Rollins
40. Donald Royal 41. Delaney Rudd 42. Mike Sanders
43. Byron Scott 44. Brad Sellers 45. Charles Smith
46. Larry Smith 47. Tom Tolbert 48. Trent Tucker
49. Kiki Vandeweghe 50. Sam Vincent 51. Darrell Walker
52. Morlon Wiley 53. David Wingate 54. Joe WOlf
55. Danny Young
|
| 10.644 | Champs & Finals MVPs | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Tue Jun 22 1993 19:14 | 49 |
| NBA Finals MVP
-------------------------------------------------------------
1993--Chicago 4, Phoenix 2 Michael Jordan, Chicago
1992--Chicago 4, Portland 2 Michael Jordan, Chicago
1991--Chicago 4, LA Lakers 1 Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990--Detroit 4, Portland 1 Isiah Thomas, Detroit
1989--Detroit 4, LA Lakers 0 Joe Dumars, Detroit
1988--LA Lakers 4, Detroit 3 James Worthy, LA Lakers
1987--LA Lakers 4, Boston 2 Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
1986--Boston 4, Houston 2 Larry Bird, Boston
1985--LA Lakers 4, Boston 2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, LA Lakers
1984--Boston 4, LA Lakers 3 Larry Bird, Boston
1983--Philadelphia 4, LA Lakers 0 Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1982--LA Lakers 4, Philadelphia 2 Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
1981--Boston 4, Houston 2 Cedric Maxwell, Boston
1980--LA Lakers 4, Philadelphia 2 Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
1979--Seattle 4, Washington 1 Dennis Johnson, Seattle
1978--Washington 4, Seattle 3 Wes Unseld, Washington
1977--Portland 4, Philadelphia 2 Bill Walton, Portland
1976--Boston 4, Phoenix 2 Jo Jo White, Boston
1975--Golden State 4, Washington 0 Rick Barry, Golden State
1974--Boston 4, Milwaukee 3 John Havlicek, Boston
1973--New York 4, LA Lakers 1 Willis Reed, New York
1972--LA Lakers 4, New York 1 Wilt Chamberlain, LA Lakers
1971--Milwaukee 4, Baltimore 0 Lew Alcindor, Milwaukee
1970--New York 4, LA Lakers 3 Willis Reed, New York
1969--Boston 4, LA Lakers 3 Jerry West, LA Lakers
1968--Boston 4, LA Lakers 2
1967--Philadelphia 4, San Francisco 2
1966--Boston 4, LA Lakers 3
1965--Boston 4, LA Lakers 1
1964--Boston 4, San Francisco 1
1963--Boston 4, LA Lakers 2
1962--Boston 4, LA Lakers 3
1961--Boston 4, St. Louis 1
1960--Boston 4, St. Louis 3
1959--Boston 4, Minneapolis 0
1958--St. Louis 4, Boston 2
1957--Boston 4, St. Louis 3
1956--Philadelphia Warriors 4, Fort Wayne 1
1955--Syracuse 4, Fort Wayne 3
1954--Minneapolis 4, Syracuse 3
1953--Minneapolis 4, New York 1
1952--Minneapolis 4, New York 3
1951--Rochester 4, New York 3
1950--Minneapolis 4, Syracuse 2
1949--Minneapolis 4, Washington Capitols 2
1948--Baltimore 4, Philadelphia Warriors 2
1947--Philadelphia 4, Chicago Stags 1
|
| 10.645 | Willis Reed may be trying to get Daly to quit so he can coach | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Take me for a little while | Tue Jun 22 1993 19:41 | 5 |
| WIth a frontline of Benoit Benjamin, Derrick Coleman, and Chris Morris,
no Chris Dudley, and now sadly no Drazen Petrovic, Chuck Daly may be
sprinting to NBC to audition as the new "czar of the telestrator".
NAZZ
|
| 10.646 | starting over again at his age? | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Tue Jun 22 1993 20:35 | 5 |
| My neighbor's kid leaves next week to attend a local basketball camp
run by Sir Charles and Daly. Maybe I can convince him to keep his ears
open or ask Daly where he's going. It doesn't sound like a situation
Daly wanted to be in.
|
| 10.647 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jun 22 1993 20:52 | 4 |
| Kevin McHale has accepted the color commentator position for the
Minnesota Timberwolves.
Maybe he's being groomed to be Fratello's replacement.
|
| 10.648 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | To walk the caves of ice | Tue Jun 22 1993 22:21 | 4 |
| Jerry West won MVP in 69 when his laker team lost the series? Is
that the only time a non-champion wins MVP or did I miss more?
Tim
|
| 10.649 | | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Tue Jun 22 1993 22:37 | 2 |
| Yeah they felt sorry for him after the Celtics whipped him. They also
did it for not getting to use the balloons stuck in the ceiling.
|
| 10.650 | West woulda been a GREAT Celtic | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Wed Jun 23 1993 01:16 | 7 |
| -1,
Nothin sorry about it. Jerry West was immense for the Lakers in the '69
finals, unlike some "greatest-center wannabe" whose name I cain't
remember. Without West, the Lakers woulda whimpered away in '69
MikeL
|
| 10.651 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Wed Jun 23 1993 01:41 | 5 |
| Right, a 7 game series and the Celtics whipped 'em. Gotta hand one
thing to MikeH he is blind about all teams he roots for.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.652 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Wed Jun 23 1993 12:10 | 16 |
| TCM the '69 Celtics won 44 games in the regular season so there was
no shame in beating the heavily favored Lakers in 7. Age and injuries
left the Celtics with no home court advantage in any of the three
series they won, but once again the "GREATEST WINNER IN SPORTS" rose to
the ocassion.
The one thing that really bugs me about folks perception about
Russell is that he was a one dimensional player (i.e. defensive
specialist). Anybody see the Globe the other day with his clinching
game 5 numbers against the Hawks (their third of 8 in a row)? 31
points and 38 rebounds! As the Celtics drafted more offensive weapons
Russ gave up more of his game for the team. When Magic did such things
people wet their jeans over it, but with Russ it was proof of his
offensive shortcomings.
/Don
|
| 10.653 | Maybe Walt should forward these tidbits to manyzeros? | CNTROL::CHILDS | Deceptively old, almost mature | Wed Jun 23 1993 12:32 | 17 |
|
> The one thing that really bugs me about folks perception about
> Russell is that he was a one dimensional player (i.e. defensive
> specialist). Anybody see the Globe the other day with his clinching
> game 5 numbers against the Hawks (their third of 8 in a row)? 31
> points and 38 rebounds! As the Celtics drafted more offensive weapons
> Russ gave up more of his game for the team. When Magic did such things
> people wet their jeans over it, but with Russ it was proof of his
> offensive shortcomings.
Right on Slasher right on and when those offensive weapons were cold
Russ would get 20 or 25 that night to bail em' out....
Jordan's got a long ways to go to be the Greatest.....
mike
|
| 10.654 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Wed Jun 23 1993 13:34 | 5 |
| Don -
The greatest sports franchises are the Canadians and the Yankees ;-)
JD
|
| 10.655 | | CAMONE::WAY | She had a plethora of girth | Wed Jun 23 1993 14:16 | 6 |
| >The greatest sports franchises are the Canadians and the Yankees ;-)
In North America.
'Saw
|
| 10.656 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Wed Jun 23 1993 14:24 | 7 |
| So I was wondering, Now that Bill Cartwright has centered
three straight champeenship teams, does that make him HOF
material. After all, that's more than a lot of other centers..
~/~
JD
|
| 10.657 | | ROYALT::ASHE | How can ya have your pudding if ya don't eat | Wed Jun 23 1993 14:39 | 2 |
| He's the best center in the game... he's still playing, right?
|
| 10.658 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Wed Jun 23 1993 16:42 | 18 |
| 10.659 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Wed Jun 23 1993 16:49 | 8 |
| CNTROL::CHILDS "Deceptively old, almost mature" 17 lines 23-JUN-1993 08:32
-< Maybe Walt should forward these tidbits to manyzeros? >-
I must confess MikeC that I do miss my annual February trip to the
woodshed with 00:00.00 and the subsequent whooping that I would lay on him
in this most public of public forums.
/Don
|
| 10.660 | | ROYALT::ASHE | How can ya have your pudding if ya don't eat | Wed Jun 23 1993 16:51 | 2 |
| It's been forwarded...
|
| 10.661 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Deceptively old, almost mature | Wed Jun 23 1993 17:07 | 4 |
|
thanks Walt
|
| 10.662 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Wed Jun 23 1993 17:16 | 6 |
| /Don
You betta switch to decaf. Getting nostalgic /Don? Maurice
Richard has 11 Stanley Cups, FWIW.
JD
|
| 10.663 | Little brother | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed Jun 23 1993 17:34 | 13 |
|
> You betta switch to decaf. Getting nostalgic /Don? Maurice
> Richard has 11 Stanley Cups, FWIW.
That's Henri, not Maurice, bud. Maurice had 8 by my count. And no
one's accusing Henri Richard of being the greatest winner of all time.
At least I hope not.
So Celtics' fans have to get nostalgic but Yankee fans don't? I think
there's something wrong with your list there...
glenn
|
| 10.664 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Wed Jun 23 1993 17:43 | 17 |
| Glenn 0
Yeah, Yankees fans can get nostalgic. Whenever I hear the
Russell was the best cuz of 11 in 13 arguement, I laugh. Why?
Cuz when folks used the Magic 5 Bird 3 arguement, it was
"Titles don't mean a thing". Its kinda like ACCrisp logic.
That's why I wonder if using the Bill Russell theory, if
Bill Cartwright wasn't better than most centers, including
Bill Walton.....
Of course, Greg Kite should go down as a great one too...
Of course, Russell had a fantastic surrounding cast.
JD
|
| 10.665 | 'cept they couldn't beat em' | CNTROL::CHILDS | Deceptively old, almost mature | Wed Jun 23 1993 18:13 | 14 |
|
>> Of course, Russell had a fantastic surrounding cast.
Not at the end of his career....
Magic had a great supporting cast as did Bird.
Russell was so great that the Knicks decided to make Baltimore
they're main rival when Boston would have been the obvious choice...
mike
|
| 10.666 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Still looking for that bluejean baby queen | Wed Jun 23 1993 18:15 | 86 |
| You asked for it...
From: "George Brooks" 23-JUN-1993 14:05:07.14
To: royalt::ashe
CC:
Subj: Post this rascal in notes ....
>
> The one thing that really bugs me about folks perception about
> Russell is that he was a one dimensional player
No. Russell was a two-dimensional player - rebounds and defense. And
a decent passer. Even *Russell* admits that his offensive game was
limited. If Russell had ever been a serious low-post option, the
team would have suffered, because being a *career* 44% 'shooter'
(remember his range), he would have needed more shots to score the
same number of points as Wilt, Reed, or even (gag) Bellamy.
It is too funny listening to Bill Walton about three weeks ago, making
the same assertion. And listening to Peter Vescey and about three
others (all were Russell fans) put Walton in his place - on
national raido.
> Anybody see the Globe the other day with his clinching
> game 5 numbers against the Hawks (their third of 8 in a row)? 31
> points and 38 rebounds!
BFD. John Paxton rains threes from the heavens like it's a video game.
Had a 20 point game and 5 three's in the clincher against the Lakers
in '91. Does that make him a consistent offensive threat ? Not.
A more accurate barometer of Russ' 'value' in the offense was his role
in the key Game 4 in the 1969. Sam Jones threw up a shot that by his
own admission had no business going in. It bounced around 20 times, and
fell in for the winner. Instead of 3-1 Lakers, it was 2-2.
Anyhow, where was Russell ?
On the bench. Why ? Because the coach knew that 1) He wasn't a viable
low-post option and 2) He wanted five good foul shooters on the floor in
case of a foul.
Who was the coach anyhow ?
Bill Russell.
'Nuff said.
> As the Celtics drafted more offensive weapons
> Russ gave up more of his game for the team.
HAHAHAHAHA(tm) When Russell got to Boston, 1) Russ had no real
offensive game. 2) The C's started Cousy (gunner), Heinson (gunner),
Sharman (shooter), and Ramsey (shooter). Looks like a pretty offensive
lineup to me. Russ fit in because he didn't need 20 shots a game on
that type of team. And a good thing. Because 20 shots on a regular
basis would have been a bit ugly to watch.
In short, Russ didn't "give up" JACK for his team. He had little to
forgo. The C's were well-known as a good offensive team with no D. And
after Russell got there, Sam Jones, Hondo, and Embry came along. All
could score. Take a look at Mr Russell's avgs. not a lot of variation
through his career,except at the end when he went into the 9-10ppg
range.
And now tell me this Slash ? The C's of the late-60's were getting old
and tired, why didn't Russell pick up his average to take up the
slack ? Because he couldn't do more than his considerable talents
dictated - namely defense and rebounding.
> When Magic did such things
> people wet their jeans over it, but with Russ it was proof of his
> offensive shortcomings.
Because Magic RAISED his average and his game as Kareem, McAdoo, and
Cooper aged. Because Magic played all five positions on the court
when necessary. Russell did not.
Shame on you Slash ... you act as if you're the only person who
know his basketball history.
The Doc
--
"New England - Year Five - already ?"
George Brooks - HP Clinical Information Systems
|
| 10.667 | I always knew Doc was the Antichrist | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Wed Jun 23 1993 19:13 | 1 |
| Re: -1
|
| 10.668 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Wed Jun 23 1993 19:17 | 3 |
| The anti-Jihad lives!!!!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.669 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Wed Jun 23 1993 19:19 | 6 |
| .666
Best note in a while. Slasher probably hadda get a double
espresso after reading it...
JD
|
| 10.670 | A minor, insignificant point conceded... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed Jun 23 1993 19:49 | 25 |
|
> Best note in a while. Slasher probably hadda get a double
> espresso after reading it...
Not really. It's only of secondary importance what would have happened
had Bill Russell tried to emphasize his offensive game (actually, only
his shooting game, because everyone readily acknowledges he was a great
passer and offensive rebounder out of the pivot). We already know what
happened with Russell playing exactly the game that he did; there's no
need for speculation. 11 of 13, even when the odds were against it.
Wooden > Smith. Russell > Chamberlain.
JD, more than anyone else I know, you've been the "how many titles" guy.
It's pretty damned funny that you of all people are using the Bill
Cartwright question to support a point. At first I thought you were
asking yourself the question and were going through some kind of
self-analysis. As for the Larry v. Magic debate, most everyone in
here that I know of has agreed that Magic Johnson was greater than
Larry Bird by virtue of playing at the top of his game for quite a bit
longer than Bird did, regardless of whether they were ever equals at
their peaks. That's quite consistent with the eventual result of five
titles versus three. There's no contradiction there.
glenn
|
| 10.671 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Wed Jun 23 1993 20:33 | 47 |
| 10.672 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Still looking for that bluejean baby queen | Wed Jun 23 1993 20:37 | 71 |
| From "George Brooks"
>
> Not really. It's only of secondary importance what would have happened
> had Bill Russell tried to emphasize his offensive game (actually, only
> his shooting game, because everyone readily acknowledges he was a great
> passer and offensive rebounder out of the pivot). We already know what
> happened with Russell playing exactly the game that he did; there's no
> need for speculation. 11 of 13, even when the odds were against it.
> Wooden > Smith. Russell > Chamberlain.
Glenn, Slasher was the one who emphasized Russell's non-exsistant
offense. Bottom line is this, Russell (like many a great invention)
became a defensive genius because of a lack of offense. His passing
came along much later. He also was fortunate to have coaches who
understood how Russell could be incorporated into a system. In
some ways Russell and Magic paralleled each other in that both men
joined very good teams. Russell would not have won nearly as many
titles if he had joined the Ft. Wayne Pistons, or the Rochester Royals
(for example). If Magic had gone to the N.O. Jazz, or San Diego
Clippers, would he was been in 9 Finals in 11 years, winning 5 ?
Probably not. I have no problem saying that.
(And if Wilt had been able to play on a steady, well-balanced team
his whole career, same front office, same system, good balance, a
coach like Alex Hanumn (for example) - in other words, if he was
dealt *the same deck as Russell*, don't you think he might have won
more titles ? When most peers of the period felt that Wilt's ability
GOT inferior teams to 7th games in the first place ?)
(It leads to a favorite pet peeve of mine - the bullshit cliche (a
redundant term, I know), "He [Magic, Bird, Russell] makes his teammates
so much better..." It is used to cut down great players, especially
in the Boston area. Jordan, The Big O and Wilt are the usual targets.
As Barkley once said in Philly, who is it easier to "make better" ?
Kevin McHale, or Manute Bol ?
James Worthy or John Paxton ?
Sam Jones or Tom Gola ? )
And I won't even mention the value of continuity. The guts of Boston's
teams stayed together forever. The Bulls have lost no one (important)
to free agency, and have yet to lose anyone major to a serious (e.g.
game-missing) injury.
Talent means a lot, but surrounding talent and circumstances means
more. Chamberlain went to a weak Warriors team, and improved them
by 22 games, scoring 37 points, grabbing 22 rebounds AND playing
defense better than anyone west of Boston.
But that isn't enough, huh ?
> self-analysis. As for the Larry v. Magic debate, most everyone in
> here that I know of has agreed that Magic Johnson was greater than
> Larry Bird by virtue of playing at the top of his game for quite a bit
> longer than Bird did, regardless of whether they were ever equals at
> their peaks. That's quite consistent with the eventual result of five
> titles versus three. There's no contradiction there.
Uh Glenn, I listen to talk radio, and many still want to pick Bird,
and leave Magic as an afterthought. Even some so-called national
"experts" who ought to know better. Magic gets my vote for your
reasons PLUS the fact that he is the ONLY player in NBA history to
effectively play EVERY position on the court.
Back to the regualrly scheudled argument ...
--
"New England - Year Five - already ?"
George Brooks - HP Clinical Information Systems
|
| 10.673 | free agents sorted by pts+rebs+asts w/salary | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Wed Jun 23 1993 22:32 | 53 |
| G M/Gm AS/g ST/G TO/g BK/g TR/g PPG (P+R+A)/Gm $alary
Ken Norman 76 32.6 2.2 0.8 1.6 0.8 7.5 15.0 24.7 1.275M
A.C. Green 82 34.4 1.4 1.1 1.4 0.5 8.7 12.8 22.9 1.750M
Kevin Edwards 40 28.4 3.0 1.7 1.9 0.3 3.0 13.9 19.9 0.750M
Craig Ehlo 82 31.2 3.1 1.3 1.5 0.3 4.9 11.6 19.6 1.075M
Byron Scott 58 28.9 2.7 0.9 1.2 0.2 2.3 13.7 18.7 1.100M
Fred Roberts 77 23.6 0.8 0.4 1.6 1.8 6.2 11.3 18.3 0.866M
Avery Johnson 75 27.1 7.5 1.1 1.9 0.2 1.9 8.7 18.1 0.140M
Tom Tolbert 72 25.5 1.3 0.5 1.6 0.3 5.7 8.1 15.1 0.606M
Donald Royal 77 21.2 1.0 0.5 1.5 0.3 3.8 9.2 14.0 0.140M
Mike Sanders 53 22.4 1.4 0.7 1.1 0.6 3.2 8.6 13.2 1.100M
Rod Higgins 68 20.6 1.7 0.7 0.9 0.4 2.8 8.3 12.8 ?
Andrew Lang 73 25.5 1.1 0.6 1.2 1.9 6.0 5.3 12.4 1.040M
Lry Krystkowiak 71 19.2 1.0 0.6 0.9 0.2 3.9 7.2 12.1 ?
David Wingate 72 20.4 2.5 0.9 1.2 0.1 2.4 6.1 11.0 0.129M
Chris Dudley 71 19.7 0.2 0.2 0.8 1.5 7.2 3.5 10.9 1.200M
Bob McCann 79 19.4 0.9 0.6 1.0 0.7 3.6 6.3 10.8 0.225M
Morlon Wiley 33 19.4 3.0 1.2 1.5 0.0 1.7 5.8 10.5 0.250M
Vincent Askew 64 16.5 1.8 0.6 1.0 0.3 2.3 6.0 10.1 0.180M
Bernard King 32 13.4 0.6 0.3 0.7 0.1 2.4 7.0 10.0 ?
Winston Garland 66 15.2 2.1 0.6 1.0 0.1 1.6 5.9 9.6 0.134M
Moses Malone 11 9.5 0.6 0.1 0.9 0.7 4.2 4.5 9.3 2.230M
Tom Hammonds 35 16.3 0.5 0.5 0.9 0.2 2.7 5.9 9.1 0.850M
Chucky Brown 77 15.4 0.7 0.2 0.7 0.3 3.0 5.1 8.8 0.140M
James Donaldson 6 15.7 0.2 0.2 0.7 1.2 4.8 3.5 8.5 ?
Gary Plummer 60 12.3 0.7 0.2 1.3 0.2 2.9 4.7 8.3 0.140M
Joe Kleine 78 14.5 0.5 0.2 0.5 0.2 4.4 3.3 8.2 1.150M
Frank Johnson 77 14.6 2.4 0.8 1.0 0.1 1.5 4.3 8.2 ?
Kiki Vandeweghe 41 12.0 0.6 0.3 0.5 0.2 1.2 6.2 8.0 0.140M
Maurice Cheeks 35 14.6 3.1 0.9 0.9 0.1 1.2 3.6 7.9 0.600M
Trent Tucker 68 13.3 1.2 0.4 0.3 0.1 1.0 5.2 7.4 0.350M
Rodney McCray 64 15.9 1.3 0.2 0.8 0.2 2.5 3.5 7.3 1.075M
Kurt Rambis 66 11.7 0.8 0.6 0.5 0.3 3.3 2.4 6.5 ?
Gary Grant 72 13.8 2.8 0.6 0.8 0.0 0.9 2.7 6.4 1.128M
Lester Conner 31 13.6 2.1 1.1 0.7 0.1 1.6 2.4 6.1 0.890M
Jerome Lane 21 7.1 0.8 0.6 0.3 0.1 2.5 2.8 6.1 0.225M
Charles Jones 67 18.0 0.6 0.6 0.6 1.1 4.1 1.3 6.0 ?
Manute Bol 58 14.7 0.3 0.2 0.9 2.1 3.3 2.2 5.8 1.650M
Larry Smith 66 12.6 0.4 0.3 0.6 0.2 4.1 1.3 5.8 0.500M
Randy Breuer 12 8.9 0.5 0.2 0.4 0.2 2.3 2.7 5.5 ?
Darrell Walker 28 13.0 1.6 0.8 0.4 0.1 1.4 2.5 5.5 0.735M
Danny Young 65 12.9 1.8 0.5 0.5 0.1 0.7 2.9 5.4 ?
John Bagley 10 9.7 2.0 0.2 1.6 0.0 0.7 2.3 5.0 0.550M
Brad Sellers 54 9.9 0.9 0.1 0.5 0.2 1.5 2.5 4.9 0.700M
Steve Kerr 46 9.5 1.3 0.2 0.5 0.0 0.8 2.7 4.8 0.550M
Joe Wolf 21 7.4 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.0 2.1 2.5 4.8 ?
Scott Hastings 76 8.8 0.4 0.2 0.4 0.1 1.8 2.1 4.3 0.600M
Ed Nealy 11 7.2 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.1 1.5 2.1 3.8 ?
Delaney Rudd 15 6.3 1.1 0.1 0.7 0.0 0.6 1.7 3.4 ?
Greg Dreiling 42 5.7 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.2 1.6 1.1 2.9 ?
Wayne Rollins 42 5.9 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.4 1.4 0.7 2.3 0.500M
Sam Vincent -- 1.510M
Jack Haley -- 0.390M
|
| 10.674 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | To walk the caves of ice | Wed Jun 23 1993 22:42 | 2 |
| The suns could always pick up Joe wolf and Ed Nealy for tall bodies
in the middle....
|
| 10.675 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Thu Jun 24 1993 12:17 | 24 |
| 10.676 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Still looking for that bluejean baby queen | Thu Jun 24 1993 13:20 | 63 |
| From: "George Brooks" 23-JUN-1993 17:28:03.14
> And what was the average field goal percentage in the 13 years
> King Russell played. My guess is he was closer to the average
> than LittleDoc) would care to admit. What was his shooting
> percentage in important playoff games?
Russell's shooting % was bad for almost any era outside of the Ray
Charles League (Uh Huh !). Moreover, most of his 'offense'
consisted of tip-ins and lob passes. On the other hand, Lord Wilt
was the first man in NBA history to average 50% from the floor, and
still holds two of the top three marks for shooting accuracy.
(BTW, I was guesstimating Russell's FG% - in reality, it was
probably lower.)
> So I finally prove that King Bill was indeed an offensive threat
> and Doc compares him to a marginal player. Not surprising, but
> game 5 was the norm for the young King Bill not the exception.
Sigh ... I said that Russell was a one-game wonder. 31 points was
not the norm - and of rgood reason.
> Just what does Sam Jones shot against the Lakers have to do with
> King Bill's offensive prowess in his early years? Once again
> DocIllogic) strikes!
Interesting that you convientely avoided the fact that Russell
was surrounding by shooting talent from DAY 1. Also you igKnorr the
fact that Russ lost what little offense he had with age. Meanwhile,
Lord Wilt was still capable of lighting up the scoreboard, but
in a true case of sacrifice, concentrated even more on boards and D
(he led the league in rebounding his last two years in the league
at the ripe old age of 38), and averaged around 15 points a game
his last three years as a Laker. This from a man who averaged 30
for his career, and nearly 39 over the first 8 years of his career.
> Probably the same reason SmileyJohnson) couldn't beat the Bulls
> a couple of years ago.
Good non-answer. Try again. Frankly, the Lakers lack enough backcourt
help to beat Chicago. I'm am far from alone in asserting that if
the Lakers had Sedale Threatt in '91, they would have beaten Chicago.
> And Midnight calling himself an NBA historian just because he read
> a couple of moldy paperbacks is like saying Bill Clinton is a
> decisive leader because his address is 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
What does that make you Slash ? Seeing that I've trashed you twice
in a row. Not counting that "Meaningful Champion Games" faux pas
you committed ...
Look, The Doctor is merciful in victory. Suppose we call it a day,
and I let you slink away. Otherwise, I'll have to stand above you
a while long, with a verbal foot on your chest, posing for yet
another SI cover for my legion of admirers ...
00:00
--
"New England - Year Five - already ?"
George Brooks - HP Clinical Information Systems
|
| 10.677 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Thu Jun 24 1993 13:35 | 10 |
| Glenn -0
Um - I figured everyone would know I was kidding about Bill
Cartwright - a hoops player I have no respect for.
And I didn't even realize you were such a big celtics fan - especially
in the way back 60's....since I thought you'd be a Pittsburgh Pipers
fan.
JD
|
| 10.678 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Still looking for that bluejean baby queen | Thu Jun 24 1993 13:47 | 1 |
| I thought they were the Condors... or maybe the Pisces...
|
| 10.679 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Thu Jun 24 1993 13:49 | 7 |
| COndors? Perhaps. I'll have to ask my running buddy - he used
to work for the Nuggets back in ABA days. Has some GREAT stories
about the Old ABA. Talk about shoe-string operations....
Has a great story about taping Dr. J's ankles....
JD
|
| 10.680 | Bill %'s | CNTROL::KING | | Thu Jun 24 1993 14:52 | 22 |
| Argue on...
Bill Russell's career shooting percentage
Regular Playoff
Season
fg% fg%
57 .427 .365
58 .442 .361
59 .457 .409
60 .467 .456
61 .426 .427
62 .457 .458
63 .432 .453
64 .433 .356
65 .438 .527
66 .415 .475
67 .454 .360
68 .425 .409
69 .433 .423
Total .440 .430
|
| 10.681 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Look OUT! Its A HYPE-A-SAURUS!! | Thu Jun 24 1993 14:55 | 4 |
| Now, those are impressive totals, especially given the range
of Bill's shot selections. .430!
JD
|
| 10.682 | Yeah Wilt couyld sinbk them 20fters | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Thu Jun 24 1993 15:22 | 8 |
| Yabbut,
Never seen Wilted (on the court) throw up some magnifico jumpers.
Finger roll, dunk, tip-ins.... Not much different than The MAN, is he
(on shot repertoire)??
MikeL
|
| 10.683 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Thu Jun 24 1993 15:23 | 7 |
| MikeL
Just wondering about the Slash's comments, then those numbers. If
someone wants to post Wilt's numbers, we can compare (and I ain't
no WIlt fain...)
JD
|
| 10.684 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jun 24 1993 15:33 | 6 |
| 10.685 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu Jun 24 1993 15:43 | 21 |
|
> Um - I figured everyone would know I was kidding about Bill
> Cartwright - a hoops player I have no respect for.
I know you were kidding. I was giving it right back.
> And I didn't even realize you were such a big celtics fan - especially
> in the way back 60's....since I thought you'd be a Pittsburgh Pipers
> fan.
I wasn't. I was merely trying to inject some objectivity to this
discussion in order to rebut this "ancient history" jihad you're on in
an effort to deny credit where it's due, just because it happens to
involve Boston. I honestly believe that if you hadn't gotten all
worked up over a logical newspaper column there would have been little
or no mention of the Celtics' dynasty in here after the Bulls' latest
victory. I figured you were just trying to torture yourself or something...
glenn
|
| 10.686 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jun 24 1993 15:44 | 6 |
| 10.687 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Thu Jun 24 1993 16:00 | 37 |
| 10.688 | Good to hear from ya, Doc... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu Jun 24 1993 17:27 | 45 |
|
> (And if Wilt had been able to play on a steady, well-balanced team
> his whole career, same front office, same system, good balance, a
> coach like Alex Hanumn (for example) - in other words, if he was
> dealt *the same deck as Russell*, don't you think he might have won
> more titles ? When most peers of the period felt that Wilt's ability
> GOT inferior teams to 7th games in the first place ?)
We've dealt with this question before, and my answer has been and still
is that it's very hard for me to see how Wilt would have won *more*
titles, and very easy for me to see how he would have won *less*. That
supposition is as close to a proof as we can get because we already
know of at least a couple of seasons where Russ' teams prevailed over
Wilt's teams even when it's generally conceded that Wilt's teams were
considered better going in.
All of which doesn't necessarily mean that Russell was a greater player
than Chamberlain, but in my opinion it does mean that he was greater in
championship competition. That's not everything, but it's a lot.
> (It leads to a favorite pet peeve of mine - the bullshit cliche (a
> redundant term, I know), "He [Magic, Bird, Russell] makes his teammates
> so much better..." It is used to cut down great players, especially
> in the Boston area. Jordan, The Big O and Wilt are the usual targets.
I generally agree with this. It's consistent with my position that
Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player *I've* ever seen.
He's well on his way to accomplishing what Bird and Magic did with a
much inferior supporting cast. I think he's already blown by Wilt in
his ability to get it done in the championship playoffs when he hasn't
necessarily been dealt the best hand.
> Uh Glenn, I listen to talk radio, and many still want to pick Bird,
> and leave Magic as an afterthought. Even some so-called national
> "experts" who ought to know better. Magic gets my vote for your
> reasons PLUS the fact that he is the ONLY player in NBA history to
> effectively play EVERY position on the court.
It certainly doesn't help that every time I turn on the radio and hear
Magic speaking with Bob Costas or whoever he's saying that Larry Bird was
the greatest player of his (their) time! Granted, Magic has become a
very humble guy and I think he doesn't give himself enough credit, but...
glenn
|
| 10.689 | Russell not as bad a shooter as most in the league at that time | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Take me for a little while | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:01 | 22 |
| Time to end this LDUC. Here are the league shooting percentages from
1956 to 1969, compared to Russell's and Wilt's.
YEAR LEAGUE RUSSELL CHAMBERLAIN
1956-57 .382 .427 ----
1957-58 .383 .442 ----
1958-59 .395 .457 ----
1959-60 .410 .467 .461
1960-61 .415 .426 .509
1961-62 .426 .457 .506
1962-63 .441 .432 .528
1963-64 .433 .433 .524
1964-65 .424 .438 .499
1965-66 .433 .415 .540
1966-67 .442 .454 .683
1967-68 .448 .425 .595
1968-69 .441 .433 .583
Russell shot under the league average only once in his first nine
years in the league.
NAZZ
|
| 10.690 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:06 | 4 |
| .683, how does anyone have that kind of %. Are you sure you didn't
mean .583 for Wilt in 1966-67??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.691 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:15 | 7 |
| Nazz 0
Nice stats. But I still say shooting percentages of .415, etc by
a guy who shot from right around the hoop are nothing to be
proud of.
JD
|
| 10.692 | It's accurate!!! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Take me for a little while | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:21 | 3 |
| Wilt shot 785 for 1150 in thier championship season.
NAZZ
|
| 10.693 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:23 | 4 |
| wow! is that the highest % ever for a season? It seemed so out of line I
figured it had to be a typo.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.694 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:39 | 3 |
| I think one of the Jones' brothers had a better average ;-)
JD
|
| 10.695 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Still looking for that bluejean baby queen | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:43 | 18 |
| From: "George Brooks"
Lies ... damned lies and stats ....
Dennis Rodman finsihed in the top 10 in FG% a couple of years ago. Would
any of us call hima great shooter ? No. Why ? Because most of his (few)
shots per game were dunks, tip-ins, and the like. Ditto for Russell.
I still submit that given the fact that he was a pivot man on a team
where he would never see a double team, and where most of his shots were
within 5-8 feet of the basket - that Russell was a poor shooter.
This is not a LDUC, and certainly not one I started. But let's set the
record straight, or else by next week, Slasher will tell anyone that will
listen that Russell's average would be 5 points higher if the league had
a 3 point shot in his time .... :-)
|
| 10.696 | | CNTROL::KING | | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:49 | 8 |
| I only have the stats through 1990 and the highest fg% for a season are
as follows...
Wilt Chamberlain LA 1973 0.727 Yes, this is correct!!
Wilt Chamberlain PH 1967 0.683
Artis Gilmore CH 1981 0.670
Artis Gilmore CH 1982 0.652
Wilt Chamberlain LA 1972 0.649
|
| 10.697 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jun 24 1993 18:59 | 8 |
| 10.698 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:00 | 9 |
| Mac =
Height don't mean a thang - or else Manute would be an all-star.
Still, I don't care if you are 5', 6', or 8' - you should
hit more than 50% of yer shots if you shoot from a few feet
out.
JD
|
| 10.699 | | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:03 | 12 |
| Lessee what Malpractice says about Wilted's shot repertoire as well...
Oops, I forgot his patented 5 ft bank shot. What range. Ranks right
up there with Russ' hook.
Bottom line as I said, Wilt did not have much more of a shot selection
than Russell, just got great position (better than Russ on "O", but
different roles) and it was good night nurse.. unless of course The
Man was playin' "D" behind him. In yo' face Wilt!
MikeL
|
| 10.700 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:09 | 12 |
| 10.701 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:15 | 12 |
| 10.702 | Jumped on the Orange Line - an easy commute from Forest Hills | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Take me for a little while | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:22 | 13 |
| Manute is listed as 7-7 225 pounds; Wilt was 7-2 275 pounds.
That's 5 inches shorter, but 50 pounds heavier!!!
Also, in the Celtics fast break offense, Russell was often the trailer,
pulling up for foul line jumpers. He also had a sweeping hook across
the lane, and an effective 12-15 foot baseline jumper. His offense
was definitely not low post, like Wilt.
I don't know how often you saw Russell play in person Doc M, but I
was at the Garden constantly in junior high and high school. I'll
bet I saw over 100 games in person before I went to college.
NAZZ
|
| 10.703 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Well, 19 tequilas later, we had a deal | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:24 | 5 |
| >Manute is listed as 7-7 225 pounds; Wilt was 7-2 275 pounds.
>That's 5 inches shorter, but 50 pounds heavier!!!
Look out for Shaq then...
|
| 10.704 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston... | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:25 | 4 |
| RatOn NAZZ! Like I said, if they can't see video evidence then it
didn't happen.
/Don
|
| 10.705 | Nazz delivereth the coupe de grace | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:29 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.706 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:32 | 3 |
| Nazz, Forst Hills is off the E and F lines in Queens.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.707 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:38 | 12 |
| Nazz -
Sorry, don't count. See, for many in here, even though they
have never lived someplace, they claim they know the psyche of
the whole populance. Even when dealing wif folks who have lived
there. Therefore, using Bostonlogic, jest because you were
there don't mean a thang, cuz you are either biased, have an
axe to grind, or were blind.
Thank me later.
JD
|
| 10.708 | Say you did and I'll show her | AKOCOA::BREEN | Thank God for Braves on TBS til THE Open | Thu Jun 24 1993 19:39 | 7 |
| Nazz,
Did you take the final ride of the old orange line? I tried to get
my wife to go and next day there were hundreds that did it and to her
that meant 100s of idiots but I just wanted to hear the breaks squeal
at dudley one last time and read the "expectoration forbidden" signs
Bill
|
| 10.710 | yeah, right........ | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Megabucks Winner Wannabee | Thu Jun 24 1993 20:00 | 12 |
|
If height don't matter, howcome I ain't been drafted into the NBA?
Depending on what I'm shooting, I range from 0%-100% so I guess ya
could say I'm a 50% shooter.
I wanna be like mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I remain,
getting ready to declare AND shave ma haid!
Kev
|
| 10.711 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | FigPlucker'sFlickTheirBic's! | Fri Jun 25 1993 03:32 | 9 |
| All thisted Wilted and King Bill sh*t make me wonder if anyone has the
actual head to head stats when they played in the playoffs. Forget
about who won for a moment(hard to do I know) but ifin you want pick
one of the deciding playoff games these two played against each other
and lets see who done good and who done bad. I would venture a guess
that Wilted had the better stats but Bill the better team effort. It is
collectively a team effort that wins or loses a game....
Ben
|
| 10.712 | | SALEM::TIMMONS | A waist is a terrible thing to mind | Fri Jun 25 1993 10:56 | 7 |
| Whatsamatta, JD, getting bored? Seems like when you have lots of time
on your hands you start "stirrin' the pot", tryin' to get somethin'
cookin'. :*)
I've been in SPROTS for quite awhile, so I've seen this before.
Lee
|
| 10.713 | A steal for Portland | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR1-4/E13 237-2468 | Fri Jun 25 1993 14:13 | 6 |
| The Bullets traded Harvey Grant to the Trailblazers for Kevin
Duckworth.
Makes you wonder what the Bullets' GM is thinking.
Mike
|
| 10.714 | Here's more fodder - Conrad | ROYALT::ASHE | Well, 19 tequilas later, we had a deal | Fri Jun 25 1993 14:14 | 121 |
| From: "George Brooks" 24-JUN-1993 15:35:31.70
> We've dealt with this question before, and my answer has been and still
> is that it's very hard for me to see how Wilt would have won *more*
> titles, and very easy for me to see how he would have won *less*. That
Then you go against the grain of many of Wilt's peers and contemporaries
who believe otherwise. In fact, the only people who really
attempt to assert otherwise (half-heartedly) are ex-Celtics, and
I understand where their heart is ....
> supposition is as close to a proof as we can get because we already
> know of at least a couple of seasons where Russ' teams prevailed over
> Wilt's teams even when it's generally conceded that Wilt's teams were
> considered better going in.
Ah, so that also means that Sam Jones > West right ? But we both
know better don't we ?
I don't deny Russell's greatness, but I have never understood how
Wilt - more than ANY athlete before or since took such a dispropor-
tionate part of the heat for his team's ultimate success. Jordan
doesn't get that kind of load, Kareem or Magic didn't either (and
don't forget that Kareem went nearly a decade between titles).
Oscar R. didn't either ... and in the two years you are about to mention
when "Russ' teams" prevailed, (esp. the '69 Lakers - when VanBredaKoff
benched Wilt for the entire 4th quarter out of spite), an objective
viewer would have a hard time assigning guilt, blame, and damnation
on Wilt.
> All of which doesn't necessarily mean that Russell was a greater player
> than Chamberlain, but in my opinion it does mean that he was greater in
> championship competition. That's not everything, but it's a lot.
How subjective, but it's expected. I think that if nothing else, Wilt
has given people a more realistic expectation of what to expect
from superstars.
> I generally agree with this. It's consistent with my position that
> Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player *I've* ever seen.
I tend not to rate players across positions. More on that later ...
But Jordan deserves his props ...
> He's well on his way to accomplishing what Bird and Magic did with a
> much inferior supporting cast. I think he's already blown by Wilt in
> his ability to get it done in the championship playoffs when he hasn't
> necessarily been dealt the best hand.
Glenn, Glenn ... we're talking different eras my man. Mind you, I
believe that you can compare teams - to an extent. But Wilt and
Micheal ?
Come on ! Wilt was a center. Mike is a guard. And that means one
thing in particular - **Mike can NOT be denied the basketball for
a prolonged length of time.**
You can sell out and deny a center by packing the middle (and don't
forget - zone defense rules are a LOT tougher today than 30 years
ago), and make everyone else pick up the slack by nailing the open
jumper. And that's what Boston used to do to many of Wilt's teams.
(Of course, people try to do that with Mike - let him get his 40,
and cool everyone else off. When Chicago loses though - Mike never
gets hammered the way Wilt did. Ever.)
With Mike, he can get the ball from baseline to baseline, and draw
the double teams from almost any spot on the floor. The possibilities
are endless. When doubling a post man - you double a SPOT as well
as the man. How do you deny the entry pass to a man 40 feet from
the basket ? We're talking a different paradigm for the game as we
know it.
And let's not forget Pippen - who gives the Bulls TWO open court
players of the high order. I can't rememeber any team having two
'small' players like that. Philly had just the Doc ... West and
Baylor in LA is the closest thing to it. Not to mention a team that
plays great defense, and is well-coached.
One more thing (this is a topic unto itself) ... with all due respect
(and you have to respect them) to the Bulls, they are damned lucky
to play in a period when the few dominate centers do not play on
teams as strong as Kareem or Parrish played on. This is a NBA where
you can win with a jelly-filled donut.
Question : Do you think that the great Royals teams with Robinson,
Lucas, and Embry, or those West and Baylor Laker teams would have fared
a lot better in today's NBA, where their lack of a true center would
not have been as glaring ?
I think it's time to look at the game a bit differently than we have
been. All of the old dogmas must be looked at with a critical eye.
And the hypocricy on how much a great player can do for a team needs
to be reexamined. Even Jordan needs it.
> It certainly doesn't help that every time I turn on the radio and hear
> Magic speaking with Bob Costas or whoever he's saying that Larry Bird was
> the greatest player of his (their) time! Granted, Magic has become a
> very humble guy and I think he doesn't give himself enough credit, but...
GAG ! Don't remind me Glenn, I'm trying to keep lunch down ... :-)
Doc
--
"New England - Year Five - already ?"
George Brooks - HP Clinical Information Systems
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% Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
|
| 10.715 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Well, 19 tequilas later, we had a deal | Fri Jun 25 1993 14:16 | 6 |
| Thought is:
1) Duckworth goes to center, Ellison to PF
2) Between Ellison/Gugs and possibly Rodney Rogers, they had a surplus
there
3) They could dump Grant's contract to sign the #1 pick...
|
| 10.716 | | CUPMK::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Fri Jun 25 1993 14:39 | 5 |
| Well lee -
Me stirring it up - never.
JD
|
| 10.717 | I think Doc's coming around... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Jun 25 1993 15:01 | 66 |
|
>> supposition is as close to a proof as we can get because we already
>> know of at least a couple of seasons where Russ' teams prevailed over
>> Wilt's teams even when it's generally conceded that Wilt's teams were
>> considered better going in.
>
> Ah, so that also means that Sam Jones > West right ? But we both
> know better don't we ?
Try to keep up, Doc. We're still using the "substitution theory" here.
If we substitute Jerry West for Sam Jones there's certainly no drop-off,
because Jones wasn't the guy who made the team go. But can we say that
with Chamberlain for Russell, when Russell was clearly the dominant
force on the team? *Better* than 11 of 13? That means 12 of 13, or
even 13 of 13 if we discount the season with Russell's injury. You're
talking about having to outdo near-perfection. Is that possible? Yes,
but I say improbable.
> You can sell out and deny a center by packing the middle (and don't
> forget - zone defense rules are a LOT tougher today than 30 years
> ago), and make everyone else pick up the slack by nailing the open
> jumper. And that's what Boston used to do to many of Wilt's teams.
I think this is as close to an endorsement of the "Russ > Wilt in
championship competition" as you've ever come, Doc. Quality teams
could take away Wilt's game but they couldn't take away Russell's
strengths (because of their style of play, not just because of their
teammates)! Chamberlain's scoring average was something like 8
points/game less in the playoffs against his beloved regular season
stats. Russell's overall stats were dead on, right down the line,
including his scoring average. No, teams didn't pay the attention to
him on the offensive end that they did for Wilt, but consistency of
effort had something to do with it, too, I believe, and of course
there is no analogue to taking away Russell's game on the defensive
end. That fact is certainly pertinent to the argument. Scoring isn't
everything, and quality of defense is almost *always* underrated (as it
is with Jordan, too).
Pertaning to your little story about Russell being on the bench when
Sam Jones hit the game-winning shot, I know you don't even want to talk
about Wilt being on the foul line with the game at stake!
> Come on ! Wilt was a center. Mike is a guard. And that means one
> thing in particular - **Mike can NOT be denied the basketball for
> a prolonged length of time.**
You're right, with Jordan being a guard and so great with the ball in
almost any situation, he's actually able to *raise* the level of his
play in the playoffs if he's up to the task. It's in his control,
instead of someone else's. But I think this further reinforces my
position of Jordan as the greatest I've seen, and is at the same time
consistent with the theory that a center can no longer dominate
today's game. If this is unfair to centers in position-to-position
comparisons, so be it, because the disadvantage is still a reality that
translates to wins and losses.
But still, even in a strict comparison of centers, let's face it,
Chamberlain dropped off significantly in the playoffs, even more than
most centers. If we absolutely *have* to pick a greatest playoff
scoring center, I'd even go with Kareem over Wilt. Look at what Jabbar
was able to do in Milwaukee coming right out of the chute, and of
course later with the better Laker teams. No one can question the
consistency of Jabbar's scoring and his overall play in the playoffs.
glenn
|
| 10.718 | For you R<C R>C debators | CNTROL::KING | | Fri Jun 25 1993 15:34 | 225 |
| Have at these stats. You decide which teams were better going into the
playoffs and who had the better supporting cast.
Hall of Famers playing with Russell and Chamberlain
Russell-Chamberlain
1960 7-3
1961 7-3 *
1962 6-3 *
1963 8-1 *
1964 7-2 *
1965 5-2 *
1966 4-3 *
1967 4-3 *
1968 3-3 *
1969 3-3 *
Asterisks are for Satch Sanders who I am not sure if he made the HOF or not
but I thnk he did. If so add 1 to Boston's number. The only other one I can
think of might be Al Attles but I am not sure.
-------------------
1960-1965
In these 6 years Boston had the best record in the league 6 consecutive years
and won the championship those 6 years beating Chamberlain's teams 4 times.
1966-1968
In these 3 years Philly had the best record in the league 3 consecutive years
and Boston won the championship 2 years beating Chamberlain's teams 2 times.
Philadelphia beat Boston one year and won the championship that year.
1969
Baltimore had the best record in the league and Boston beats Los Angeles to
win the championship.
-------------------
Same years in the league
1960 8 teams/2 divisions
Boston 59-16 1st in East Philadelphia 49-26 2nd in East
Philadelphia 2-1 over Syracuse in Eastern Division Semifinals
BOSTON 4-2 over PHILADELPHIA in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-3 over St Louis in Championship Finals
Tom Heinsohn 21.7 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 37.6 HOF
Bob Cousy 19.4 HOF Paul Arazin 22.3 HOF
Bill Sharman 19.3 HOF Tom Gola 15.0 HOF
Bill Russell 18.2 HOF Guy Rodgers 11.6
Frank Ramsey 15.3 HOF Woody Sauldsberry 9.9
Sam Jones 11.9 HOF Andy Johnson 8.2
Maurice King 10.0 Joe Graboski 7.7
Gene Conley 6.7 Joe Ruklick 5.0
KC Jones 6.3 HOF Vern Hatton 4.6
Jim Loscutoff 5.5 Ernie Beck 3.9
John Richter 4.3 Guy Sparrow 2.7
Gene Guarilla 3.0
1961 8 teams/2 divisions
Boston 57-22 1st in East Philadelphia 46-33 2nd in East
Syracuse 3-0 over Philadelphia in Eastern Division Semifinals
Boston 4-1 over Syracuse in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-1 over St Louis in Championship Finals
Tom Heinsohn 21.3 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 38.4 HOF
Bob Cousy 18.1 HOF Paul Arazin 23.2 HOF
Bill Russell 16.9 HOF Tom Gola 14.2 HOF
Bill Sharman 16.0 HOF Guy Rodgers 12.8
Frank Ramsey 15.1 HOF Andy Johnson 9.6
Sam Jones 15.0 HOF Al Attles 7.0
KC Jones 7.6 HOF Ed Conlin 7.0
Gene Conley 6.3 Joe Graboski 6.8
Tom Sanders 5.3 *** Vern Hatton 4.4
Jim Loscutoff 4.4 Joe Ruklick 3.2
Gene Guarilla 3.2 Bill Kennedy 1.7
1962 9 teams/2 divisions
Boston 60-20 1st in East Philadelphia 49-31 2nd in East
Philadelphia 3-2 over Syracuse in Eastern Division Semifinals
BOSTON 4-3 over PHILADELPHIA in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-3 over Los Angeles in Championship Finals
Tom Heinsohn 22.1 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 50.4 HOF
Bill Russell 18.9 HOF Paul Arazin 21.9 HOF
Sam Jones 18.4 HOF Tom Gola 13.7 HOF
Bob Cousy 15.7 HOF Tom Meschery 12.1
Frank Ramsey 15.3 HOF Al Attles 11.3
Tom Sanders 11.2 *** Guy Rodgers 8.2
KC Jones 9.2 HOF York Larese 5.1
Jim Loscutoff 5.3 Ed Conlin 4.6
Gary Phillips 4.0 Joe Ruklick 2.3
Carl Braun 3.7 Frank Radovich 2.3
Gene Guarilla 3.6 Tom Luckenbill 2.0
1963 9 teams/2 divisions
Boston 58-22 1st in East San Francisco 31-49 4th in West
Boston 4-3 over Cincinnati in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-2 over Los Angeles in Championship Finals
Sam Jones 19.7 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 44.8 HOF
Tom Heinsohn 18.9 HOF Tom Meschery 16.0
Bill Russell 16.8 HOF Guy Rodgers 13.9
John Havlicek 14.3 HOF Willie Naulls 12.9
Bob Cousy 13.2 HOF Al Attles 10.4
Frank Ramsey 10.9 HOF Gary Phillips 8.1
Tom Sanders 10.8 *** Wayne Hightower 7.4
KC Jones 7.2 HOF Howard Montgomery 7.2
Clyde Lovellette 6.5 HOF George Lee 7.0
Dan Swartz 4.5 Ken Sears 5.9
Jim Loscutoff 3.3 Fred LaCour 4.1
Gene Guarilla 2.4 Hubie White 3.2
Tom Luckenbill 3.1
Dave Gunther 2.6
Dave Fedor 0.9
1964 9 teams/2 divisions
Boston 59-21 1st in East San Francisco 48-32 1st in West
Boston 4-1 over Cincinnati in Eastern Division Finals
San Francisco 4-3 over St Louis in Western Division Finals
BOSTON 4-1 over SAN FRANCISCO in Championship Finals
John Havlicek 19.9 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 36.9 HOF
Sam Jones 19.4 HOF Tom Meschery 13.5
Tom Heinsohn 16.5 HOF Wayne Hightower 13.2
Bill Russell 15.0 HOF Guy Rodgers 11.0
Tom Sanders 11.4 *** Al Attles 10.9
Willie Naulls 9.8 Gary Phillips 10.0
Frank Ramsey 8.6 HOF Nate Thurmond 7.0 HOF
KC Jones 8.2 HOF Gary Hill 5.1
Clyde Lovellette 6.7 HOF Ken Sears 3.3
Larry Siegfried 3.3 George Lee 3.2
Jim Loscutoff 2.5 John Windsor 2.5
Jack McCarthy 1.3
1965 9 teams/2 divisions Chamberlain traded midseason to Philly
Boston 62-18 1st in East Philadelphia 40-40 3nd in East
Philadelphia 3-1 over Cincinnati in Eastern Division Semifinals
BOSTON 4-3 over PHILADELPHIA in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-1 over Los Angeles in Championship Finals
Sam Jones 25.9 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 38.9 HOF
John Havlicek 18.3 HOF Nate Thurmond 16.5 HOF
Bill Russell 14.1 HOF Guy Rodgers 14.6
Tom Heinsohn 13.6 HOF Tom Meschery 12.7
Tom Sanders 11.8 *** Paul Neumann 10.8
Willie Naulls 10.5 Al Attles 9.3
KC Jones 8.3 HOF Wayne Hightower 8.4
Ron Bonham 7.4 McCoy McLemore 8.3
Larry Siegfried 6.3 Connie Dierking 8.0
Mel Counts 4.8 Gary Phillips 7.1
John Thompson 3.6 John Rudometkin 6.0
Bob Nordmann 2.0 George Lee 4.8
Gerry Ward 1.7 Bud Koper 4.6
Cotton Nash 4.2
Barry Kramer 3.1
Gary Hill 3.0
1966 9 teams/2 divisions
Boston 54-26 2nd in East Philadelphia 55-25 1st in East
Boston 3-2 over Cincinnati in Eastern Division Semifinals
BOSTON 4-1 over PHILADELPHIA in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-3 over Los Angeles in Championship Finals
Sam Jones 23.5 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 33.5 HOF
John Havlicek 18.8 HOF Hal Greer 22.7 HOF
Larry Siegfried 13.7 Chet Walker 15.3
Bill Russell 12.9 HOF Billy Cunningham 14.3 HOF
Tom Sanders 12.6 *** Wally Jones 9.0
Willie Naulls 10.7 Lucious Jackson 8.2
Don Nelson 10.2 Dave Gambee 6.9
KC Jones 8.6 HOF Al Bianchi 6.3
Mel Counts 8.4 Gerry Ward 2.7
Ron Bonham 5.2 Ben Warley 2.0
Woody Sauldsberry 4.4 Art Heyman 1.7
John Thompson 3.2 Jesse Branson 1.0
Sihugo Green 3.2 Bob Weiss 0.9
Ron Watts 2.0
1967 10 teams/2 divisions
Boston 60-21 2nd in East Philadelphia 68-13 1st in East
Boston 3-1 over New York in Eastern Division Semifinals
Philadelphia 3-1 over Cincinnati in Eastern Division Semifinals
PHILADELPHIA 4-1 over BOSTON in Eastern Division Finals
Philadelphia 4-2 over San Francisco in Championship Finals
Sam Jones 22.1 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 24.1 HOF
John Havlicek 21.4 HOF Hal Greer 22.1 HOF
Bailey Howell 20.0 Chet Walker 19.3
Larry Siegfried 14.1 Billy Cunningham 18.5 HOF
Bill Russell 13.4 HOF Wally Jones 13.2
Tom Sanders 10.2 *** Lucious Jackson 12.0
Don Nelson 7.5 Larry Costello 7.8
KC Jones 6.2 HOF Dave Gambee 6.5
Wayne Embry 5.2 Bill Melchionni 4.3
Jim Barnett 4.1 Matt Guokas 3.0
Tony Kimball 2.6 Bob Weiss 2.0
Ron Watts 1.4
1968 12 teams/2 divisions
Boston 54-28 2nd in East Philadelphia 62-20 1st in East
Boston 4-2 over Detroit in Eastern Division Semifinals
Philadelphia 4-2 over New York in Eastern Division Semifinals
BOSTON 4-3 over PHILADELPHIA in Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4-2 over Los Angeles in Championship Finals
Sam Jones 21.3 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 24.3 HOF
John Havlicek 20.7 HOF Hal Greer 24.1 HOF
Bailey Howell 19.8 Billy Cunningham 18.9 HOF
Bill Russell 12.5 HOF Chet Walker 17.9
Larry Siegfried 12.2 Wally Jones 12.8
Tom Sanders 10.2 *** Lucious Jackson 11.8
Don Nelson 10.0 Larry Costello 7.2
Wayne Embry 6.3 Matt Guokas 6.1
Mal Graham 6.0 John Green 5.1
Tom Thacker 4.2 Bill Melchionni 4.6
John Jones 4.2 Jim Reid 3.5
Rick Weitzman 1.3 Ron Filipek 2.3
1969 14 teams/2 divisions
Boston 48-34 4th in East Los Angeles 55-27 1st in West
Boston 4-1 over Philadelphia in Eastern Division Semifinals
Los Angeles 4-2 over San Francisco in Western Division Semifinals
Boston 4-2 over New York in Eastern Division Finals
Los Angeles 4-1 over Atlanta in Western Division Finals
BOSTON 4-3 over LOS ANGELES In Championship Finals
John Havlicek 21.6 HOF Jerry West 25.9 HOF
Bailey Howell 19.7 Elgin Baylor 24.8 HOF
Sam Jones 16.3 HOF Wilt Chamberlain 20.5 HOF
Larry Siegfried 14.2 Mel Counts 12.4
Don Nelson 11.6 John Egan 8.5
Tom Sanders 11.2 *** Keith Erickson 8.4
Bill Russell 9.9 HOF Bill Hewitt 7.2
Em Bryant 5.7 Tom Hawkins 7.1
Jim Barnes 5.1 Fred Crawford 6.2
Don Chaney 4.0 Cliff Anderson 3.9
Rich Johnson 2.2 Jay Carty 2.7
Bud Olsen 2.0
Mal Graham 1.7
|
| 10.719 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | JudgeTierney-ARapist'sBestFriend | Fri Jun 25 1993 16:17 | 25 |
| 10.720 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | F.C.K..TheOnlyThingMissingIs U! | Fri Jun 25 1993 23:00 | 1 |
| So what did kingwillie do? Why couldn't he stop Wilteds replacement??
|
| 10.721 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | JudgeTierney-ARapist'sBestFriend | Fri Jun 25 1993 23:35 | 4 |
| Mel Counts hit a few outside shots and played without Wilted's fear
of failure attitude, but once again Russell and the Celtics prevailed.
/Don
|
| 10.722 | Wilt was better...but.... | ELMAGO::BENBACA | F.C.K..TheOnlyThingMissingIs U! | Sat Jun 26 1993 04:29 | 25 |
|
I remember when I was a kid going over to my uncle's house(cause he
had a tv and we didn't) to watch the Celtics play. They were my
favorite team. Hell I was a kid and they were winning all the time.
Watching Russell play I used to think that he was a good player but I
never thought that he was anything great, but he certainly couldn't be
accused of having the fear of failure attitude though. He used what
talent he had to the best of his ability. To tell you the truth it
was John Havlichek(sp) that most impressed me with the will to win.
That guy would come in and you just knew something positive was going
to happen for the celtics.
Whats all this leading to? Well, to me Wilt(ed) was, is, always will be
a better basketball player than William Russell. Unfortunatly,(for
Wilt(ed)) it is a team sport and it takes more than talent to win
basketball games. It takes the desire and the Will( pun intended) to win.
To me there also has to be a bit of good luck. I'll never forget the
brick Don Nelson threw up that somehow went in.....Leprechauns perhaps?
At the time I was happy about it, but now I see the replay and I see brick
written all over that shot. It has no business going in...
Ben
|
| 10.723 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston | Sat Jun 26 1993 15:41 | 34 |
| 10.724 | Hahahahahaha | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon Jun 28 1993 14:41 | 16 |
|
> I guess the Anti-Jihad can start boycotting Sports Illustrated
> because they've shown their Boston bias this week when comparing
> Micheal to the all time greats. Their pantheon included Russell, BigO
> Magic&Larry and Micheal. No mention of Chambermaid at all, so they
> must be secretive Celtic Jihad.
Was going to point that out, /Don, but then I remembered the standard
answer to all such bias at the national levels at the TV networks
and at SI. No matter where they come from originally, all national
broadcasters and writers are graduates of Boston College, where
somewhere in their freshman years they are indoctrinated into the
Celtanic Society and summarily brainwashed.
glenn
|
| 10.725 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Mon Jun 28 1993 14:43 | 67 |
| From: "George Brooks" 28-JUN-1993 10:35:14.70
Subj: Re: your mail
> Couldn't agree more Ben. Wilted had much more talent than Russ,
> but when the money was on the line he was the ultimate choker, while
> Russ found some way to constantly raise his game. I always been a
Spoken with the proper glazed-over look of the true Jihad member.
> and the Celtics still won, hell even Red left and the team won two more
> championships when they weren't the most talented team in the league.
> That Bill Russell was the lone constant is more than just coincidence.
No it is more than that. The other constants was a team focus, a
continuity in organization, et al. Everyone knows that Russell basically
ran the same plays that 'ole Red did, had the same personnell who
knew the system et al ... that doesn't take much away from Russell,
if anything. But you do a disservice to him, and his teammates, and
to the game, when you don't add in the other factors ...
> would replace him with Elgin Baylor. Despite the paucity of pedigree
> papers (i.e. Championships), Elgin was they guy who scared me the most,
> even more so than the celebrated Jerry West, in close games with
Nice dodge Slasher, but according to your own standards, Elgin didn't
cut it, because he lost every 7th game to Boston, and quite a few
6th games. Moreover, if he was the Elgin of old in '69, the Lakers
would have crushed Boston.
And remember this, the Lakers didn't win a title until Elgin retired
and let Jim McMillan take his place, right ?
[NOTE : The above is deliberate exaggeration on my part. But then
again, is not /ilLogic something along the same lines ? :-]
> By the way Ben, in case you weren't here when this Holy War
> started, it began when DocQuixote) made a statement that Magic was
> better than Larry because of a 5 to 3 Title advantage. I agreed as
WRONG ! I had nothing to do with the original argument. I feel that
Magic > Larry for many other reasons than 5 > 3. (Note : Even a Celtic
disciple such as Glenn W. agrees.)
/don, I'm shocked that you would go to such depths. ^don started this
issue long ago when he contended that Russell was a much better
offensive player than he was credited for. He even went so far as to
say Russell gave up offense for the "good of the team". I correctly
pointed out that Russell had no great offensive game in the first
place, that he played well within the system, but was incapable of
carrying an offense Chamberlain or Kareem-style.
/PrimmaDon was understandably hurt by my assertion, and it turned to
bitterness when proved true. Fueled by past trouncings at my hands, he
turned this into a "Russ >>> Wilt (Choker)" LDUC.
Sigh ... let us return this debate to more solid ground, with real
fans providing facts and objective analysis, not FACKS and HaraRussell
chants ...
The Doc
--
"New England - Year Five - already ?"
George Brooks - HP Clinical Information Systems
|
| 10.726 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston | Tue Jun 29 1993 15:35 | 26 |
| 10.727 | | CAMONE::WAY | Nobles of the Mystic Shrine | Tue Jun 29 1993 15:58 | 9 |
| >when Marlon Starling was knocked out on an HBO fight 4-5 years ago and
>during the interview afterward Moochie insisted that not only was he not
>knocked out, but he also wasn't knocked down! I wonder if anybody's ever
Was this the fight where he was wanged in the haid a good two seconds
after the bell?
'Saw
|
| 10.729 | accusing /Don of denial... (back to meetings) | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Tue Jun 29 1993 20:08 | 68 |
| From: "George Brooks" 29-JUN-1993 15:24:01.96
Saw, I put ellipses ( "...") in the quote to show that I was 1) Using only
part of the quote, and 2) that my total recollection was incomplete.
Understandable since I did not have the paper anymore ... :-(
And since we all know that the use of ellipses (sp) have implicit meaning in
them, I am not gulity of anything. In fact, I have shown a lot more honesty
than the "I didn't inhale"-style omissions of Glen and ^donna ...
BTW, Bird referred a lot more to Wilt than to russell ... admittedly, Bird
may have used russell's name once in the paragraph (to placate the faithful),
but that's about it. Wilt was the focus ...
BTW, if the Jihad is sooooo interested in accuracy and honesty, why didn't they
use the quote at all ?
We know why don't we ?
>
> I'll have to pickup a record book sometime, In playoff scoring jordan
> has surpassed wilt/magic and next year bird and has a better avg. He
Good thing you mentioned the average. Remember that teams only played
two playoff series - at most - in the 60's. Chicago plays three
before they evenhit the finals. So total playoff points should be
taken with a grain of salt.
But I'd be interested in seeing what *percentage* of his team's
points that Micheal scored. It must be staggering.
> I dont know how long MJ plans on playing in the NBA so I would predict
> weather he will or wont pass Wilt on the All time Scoring List (Wilt
> has a whopping 31,419 pts). If he can play as long as wilt did Im sure
Actually Kareem has the points mark, however, if MJ retired today,
he would have the scoring average record (32+ppg vs Wilt's 30.1).
Since Wilt did it in 13-14 seasons, Jordan would need another 4-5
years to take the total points record.
> wont ever be broken that impress me. Like Wilts 100pt game, I dont see
> anyone every hitting that baby... But that record is another example
Well, even Wilt thinks it can be taken (and he wasn't very proud of the
record for a long time), and if you had a situation like the
Thompson-Gervin duel back in 78 (?), and a good pace, the record
*might* be had ...
> of how the game has changed, bill on his best day in his prime couldnt
> score 100pts against any of the 28 starting center in the NBA today.
But Slusher says that Russ could have scored 50-60 easy - if it was
"for the good of the team" .... :-)
> Wilt in term's of records then Bird should reasses his statement :-)
Only when Jordan averages 23 boards, 6-8 blocks a game, and leads the
league in assists, or hits 73% from the floor .... (but please Mike,
don't shoot 45% from the line, okay ? :-)....
>
> MairB
>
>
|
| 10.730 | Jordan already as a 3-2 lead in titles over Wilted... | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Imus is coming to Boston | Tue Jun 29 1993 20:25 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.731 | | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Tue Jun 29 1993 20:41 | 6 |
| Didn't Wilt(ed) lose to a pre-Dean chokeless UNC team in the NCAA's??
Couldn't have been Wilted's fault, no??
MikeL
|
| 10.732 | Dr. Midnight, pathological fibber caught in the act! | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Tue Jun 29 1993 20:52 | 25 |
|
> Saw, I put ellipses ( "...") in the quote to show that I was 1) Using only
> part of the quote, and 2) that my total recollection was incomplete.
Ho ho ho ho haw haw haw haw! "My total recollection was incomplete". To
the best of my knowledge, sir, I cannot remember. Yes, again, sir, I do
not recall the discussion in question. Contras? No sir, I am not
familiar with these contras...
> BTW, if the Jihad is sooooo interested in accuracy and honesty, why didn't they
> use the quote at all ?
Because since it referred to *both* Chamberlain and Russell as the
greatest players of all time (and yes it most certainly did, in spite
of your incoherent denials!), it was neutral and irrelevant to the
discussion. It was only one opinion of many in an article that
basically established a consensus view that Michael Jordan is the
greatest player of all time (an opinion I agree with, so I have no
reason to discredit the article). Plus, I've already conceded that
Chamberlain was a greater player than Russell if your standard equally
weights the regular season. I've said nothing more than that Russell
was the greater player in championship competition.
glenn
|
| 10.733 | Wilt < UNC | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Tue Jun 29 1993 21:06 | 7 |
| Chamberlain was indeed on the '57 Kansas team that got knocked off in
triple OT by Carolina. Lenny Rosenbluth was UNC's star, but they also
had this other kid from up north who went by the name of "The Kangaroo
Kid".
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.734 | Billy C came later | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 30 1993 16:00 | 4 |
| re: -1
If you're referring to Billy Cunningham,your dates are way off.
Cunningham's senior year was 64-65.
|
| 10.735 | Correction to Mr.Lazarus | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Wed Jun 30 1993 18:22 | 7 |
| It weren't Billy Cunningham that played in the '57 Heels, it was *Bob*
Cunningham, who hailed from All Hallows in Manhattan.
I might be wrong about his nickname though ...
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.736 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Wed Jun 30 1993 18:27 | 42 |
| Did I post this for you-know-who?
From: George Brooks" 30-JUN-1993 10:31:51.99
The word from The Doc ;
On a serious note, I, in my humble, objectively analytical, and of course,
correct manner - feel that the Jihad typically denigrate that which they
uphold. By refusing to realize that Russell's greatness is not diminshed by
conceeding the important factors of continuity, balance and team defense.
However, some people are more interested in Wilt-bashing, and they hurt their
own cause in doing so. Micheal Jordan is *probably* the greatest all-around
player of any era - and I consider myself lucky and blessed to have seen
plenty of him on TV, and one magical time in person (thanks Nazz !) - yet we
can not downplay factors which are admittdly beyond his control :
1) A NBA that has more quality big men on poor teams right now than at any
time.
2) A game that allows for a more wide-open style of play. Wouldn't you love to
see Connie Hawkins or Julius Erving play at the peak of their careers in
today's NBA ?
3) An NBA that has no other top-shelf threats due to either chemistry
(Portland, New York), fatal personnel flaws (New York, San Antonio), style
(Cleveland), coaching (Portland again), or inexperience (Houston, Phoenix,
Charlotte and Orlando). The Bulls, to their credit, have got it all together.
And in the era of free agency - they have kept it together.
4) Luck. The Bulls have YET to have a serious injury ground their Big Three
for any length of time. If Chicago lost Jordan OR Pippen OR Grant, the Bulls
would be dogmeat. EXAMPLE : The Lakers were gunning for a 3-peat, and lost Magic and
Scott, and got swept by the Pistons. No sour grapes, but the fact is that the
series got a lot easier for LA when that happened. All I'm saying is that
let's not get soooo deep into the legend of the Bulls that we forget reality.
----------
re Air Brooks
About scoring average : When Wilt won his 7th scoring title, he was
averaging about 39 points a game. As the talent around him improved,
the scoring went down. It should be interesting to see if Jordan
keeps scoring as much with Kukoc around to provide support...
Doc
|
| 10.737 | of course this reality so you wouldn't understand ;^) | CNTROL::CHILDS | Deceptively old, almost mature | Wed Jun 30 1993 18:48 | 12 |
| > EXAMPLE : The Lakers were gunning for a 3-peat, and lost Magic and
>Scott, and got swept by the Pistons. No sour grapes, but the fact is that the
>series got a lot easier for LA when that happened. All I'm saying is that
>let's not get soooo deep into the legend of the Bulls that we forget reality.
Tragic and Flyin' Byron saw the handwritting on the wall and pulled up
lame so as not to be a part of the masacre. Tragic's ego wouldn't allow
him to loose so he ducked out the back door. Is there anybody in here
who plays sports than can say he let a little hamstring injury sideline
him????????
mike
|
| 10.738 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Wed Jun 30 1993 19:40 | 143 |
| Article 9325 of clari.sports.basketball:
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Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!news2.uunet.ca!uunet.ca!dogmead!clarinews
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.top
Subject: Thumbnail Sketches of Top NBA Prospects
Keywords: basketball, men's professional
Message-ID: <bkp-draft-thumbsU3uM115pe@clarinet.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 13:24:50 EDT
ACategory: sports
Slugword: bkp-draft-thumbs
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 1262/1357; Id: s1129; Sel: ns--s; Adate: 6-22-115ped; V: sked
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: yskprxx., tnrb...., txia...., //ns--s/, ns--s
Lines: 122
(Release at will)
Centers
Vin Baker, c, Hartford, 6-11 -- Ranked fourth in NCAA in scoring as a
senior (28.3 ppg). Hartford's all-time leader in scoring (2,238 points),
field goals (860), free throws (445) and blocked shots 279. Averaged 10.
7 rebounds and 2.6 blocked shots last season.
Shawn Bradley, c, Brigham Young, 7-6 -- Early entry candidate after
spending last two years as missionary. Averaged 14.8 points, 7.7
rebounds and 5.21 blocked shots as a freshman. Likely top-three pick
despite two-year layoff and questions about his weight (235) and
strength.
Ervin Johnson, c, New Orleans, 6-11 -- Averaged 18.4 points, 11.9
rebounds and 2.7 blocked shots as a senior. Ranked sixth in NCAA in
rebounding (346) as a senior. Had 32-point, 27-rebound performance
against Lamar. Named MVP at NABC All-Star Game during NCAA Final Four in
New Orleans in April.
Gheorghe Muresan, c, Pau Orthez (French League), 7-7 -- Averaged 18.7
points, 10.3 rebounds and 2.8 blocked shots in his first season of
French League play. Averaged 16.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.2 blocked
shots in 14 games of European Championship play.
Luther Wright, c, Seton Hall, 7-2 -- Early entry candidate. Ranked
third in Big East in blocked shots (2.2, 76 total) and seventh in
rebounding (7.5). Considered a project, but a likely first-round pick
because of his size and lack of quality centers.
Forwards
Keith Bullock, f, Manhattan, 6-7 -- Manhattan's all-time leading
scorer with 1,992 points. Named Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
Player of the Year after leading MAAC in rebounding (11.1) and ranking
second in scoring (18.3). Led Jaspers into NCAA Tournament for first
time in 35 years.
Evers Burns, f, Maryland, 6-8 -- Selected to All-Tournament teams at
both Portsmouth Invitational and Phoenix Desert Classic. Ranked sixth in
ACC in scoring (18.5) and seventh in rebounding (8.9) as a senior.
Scored in double figures in all 28 games as a senior and had 13 point-
rebound double-doubles.
Scott Burrell, f, Connecticut, 6-7 -- Huskies' all-time leader in
steals (310, 2.6 spg), second in career blocks (129) and eighth in
scoring (1,562). Only player in NCAA Division I history with at least 1,
500 points, 750 rebounds, 275 assists and 300 steals.
Parrish Casebier, f, Evansville, 6-3 -- Early entry candidate. All-
Midwestern Collegiate Conference first team and MVP of MCC Tournament
for second straight year as a junior. Averaged 20.1 points and 6.6
rebounds as a junior despite playing with broken hand at end of season.
Calbert Cheaney, f, Indiana, 6-7 -- Won Wooden and Naismith awards as
nation's top player as a senior. All-time leading career scorer (2,613
points) in Indiana and Big Ten history. Scored 20 or more points 65
times in his career. Led Hoosiers to final eight of NCAA Tournament,
averaging 26.5 points and 8.3 rebounds.
Tony Dunkin, f, Coastal Carolina 6-7 -- Leading scorer in Big South
and Coastal Carolina history (2,141 points) and four-time Big South
Player of the Year. Led Chanticleers with 23.7 ppg as a senior and
grabbed seven rebounds per game.
George Lynch, f, North Carolina, 6-8 -- Second leading rebounder in
Tar Heels history (1,097) and school's all-time steals leader (241).
Never missed a game in four years. One of only two players in ACC
history to have at least 1,500 points, 200 steals, 200 assists and 1,000
rebounds. Averaged 15.7 ppg and 9.8 rpg in Tar Heels' title run in 1993
NCAA Tournament.
Jamal Mashburn, f, Kentucky, 6-8 -- Early entry candidate. Averaged 21
points, 8.4 rebounds and 3.6 assists as a junior to lead Wildcats to
Final Four. Runner-up for Wooden Award as a junior. Selected to All-East
Regional and All-Final Four teams. Played for USA Basketball Select team
that scrimmaged against ``Dream Team.''
Rodney Rogers, f, Wake Forest, 6-7 -- Early entry candidate. ACC
Player of the Year as a senior, averaging 21.2 points, 7.4 rebounds and
2.3 assists as a junior. Led ACC in scoring and ranked eighth in steals.
Played for USA Basketball Select team that scimmaged against ``Dream
Team.''
Chris Webber, f, Michigan, 6-9 -- Early entry candidate. Finalist for
Wooden and Naismith awards as a sophomore after leading Michigan to
second straight NCAA championship game. Led Wolverines in scoring (19.
2), rebounding (10.1), blocked shots (2.5) and field goal percentage (.
619). In just two years ranks second on Michigan all-time list for
blocked shots. The only player in history to make NCAA All-Tournament
team as freshman and sophomore. Likely No. 1 pick overall.
Guards
Mark Bell, g, Western Kentucky, 5-8 -- Named MVP at Portsmouth
Invitational Tournament, averaging 15.7 points, 7.7 assists and 3.3
steals per game. Led Western Kentucky to Sweet 16 of NCAA tournament,
averaging 16.8 points 3.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists and 2.4 steals.
Sam Cassell, g, Florida State, 6-3 -- Set NCAA Tournament record
hitting seven of seven 3-pointers against Tulane in second round. Broke
FSU record for steals in a season with 97 as a senior, leading ACC. Had
back-to-back eight-steal games and averaged 18.3 points, 4.9 assists and
4.3 rebounds as a senior.
Sam Crawford, g, New Mexico State, 5-8 -- Led nation in assists with
9.1 per game. All-time Aggie assist leader (592), and holds school
records for assists in a season (310), in a game (20) and steals in a
game (eight). Set NCAA Tournament first round record for assists in a
game (16).
Terry Dehere, g, Seton Hall, 6-4 -- Big East Player of the Year as a
senior, averaging 22 points, three rebounds and 2.7 assists. Scored 20
or more points in 21 games as a senior, and hit double figures in 118 of
128 career games.
Greg Graham, g, Indiana, 6-4 -- Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year
as a senior. First player in Big Ten history to lead conference in field
goal percentage (.551) and 3-point percentage (.514) in same season.
Second all-time at Indiana in career steals (151) and eighth in scoring
(1,590). MVP of Phoenix Desert Classic.
Anfernee Hardaway, g, Memphis State, 6-7 -- Early entry candidate.
Finalist for Wooden and Naismith awards and first team All-America as a
junior. Member of 1992 USA Development team that scrimmaged against the
USA Olympic team. Averaged 22.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 6.4 assists and 2.
4 steals as a junior.
Allan Houston, g, Tennessee, 6-6 -- Tennessee's all-time leading
scorer (2,801 points), second all-time in SEC and 13th in NCAA. His 346
career 3-pointers leads SEC and is sixth in NCAA. One of eight college
players chosen to USA Development team that played against ``Dream Team.
'' Unanimous first-team all-SEC pick four straight years.
Bobby Hurley, g, Duke, 6-0 -- Led Blue Devils to three NCAA Final
Fours and two national titles. Two-time All-America and finalist for
Wooden Award as a senior. Holds NCAA career assist record (1,076) and
NCAA Tournament career record (145). Named 1992 Final Four MVP.
J.R. Rider, g, UNLV, 6-5 -- Big West Conference Player of the Year as
a senior, ranking second in nation in scoring (29.1 ppg). Scored 30 or
more points in six straight games, including 40 points against
Georgetown. Also averaged 8.9 rebounds and 2.5 assists.
Nick Van Exel, g, Cincinnati, 6-1 -- Led Bearcats in scoring (18.3),
assists (4.5) and steals (1.8) as a senior. Named to East Regional All-
Tournament team after averaging 21 points and eight assists in two games
and led Cincinnati to Final Eight. Cincinnati went 18-2 in 20 games Van
Exel started as a junior.
|
| 10.739 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Thu Jul 01 1993 02:16 | 16 |
| 1 Chris Webber (traded to GS for #3 pick and 3#1's
2 Bradley
3 Hardaway (Orlando bound)
4 Mashburn -Dal
5 Rider - Min
6 Cheaney - Was
7 Hurley - Sac
8 Baker - Min
9 Rogers - Den
10 Hunter - Det
11 Houston - Det
12 Lynch - LA laker
13 Dehere - Clipper
....
19 Acie Earl - Bos
|
| 10.740 | | CAM3::WAY | I got a stiffie | Thu Jul 01 1993 11:44 | 11 |
| > 8 Baker - Min
I think you made a typo Walt. Baker, from the University of Hartford went
to the Bucks.
Scott Burrell from UCONN went to Charlotte....
'Saw
|
| 10.741 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Thu Jul 01 1993 12:10 | 2 |
| Yup, Mil, not Min...
|
| 10.743 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Happy 30th ZIP | Thu Jul 01 1993 16:33 | 6 |
| 10.745 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Happy 30th ZIP | Thu Jul 01 1993 16:46 | 1 |
| 10.746 | Lakers living in the past | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Ourgng is at half mast for Spanky | Thu Jul 01 1993 16:54 | 5 |
| 12, Los Angeles Lakers -- George Lynch, f, 6-7, North Carolina
37, Los Angeles Lakers -- Nick Van Exel, g, 6-1, Cincinnati
Does it seem that the Lakers just drafted James Worthy and Byron Scott Junior.
|
| 10.747 | | SKEWED::MCKAY | | Thu Jul 01 1993 17:12 | 6 |
| Looks like manning made a good move transferring out of Syracuse
for more PT at Washington. He only ended up a couple of picks
below McRae. if he had stayed at 'Cuse he might never have been
drafted at all.......
Jimbo
|
| 10.748 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Jul 01 1993 17:13 | 11 |
| Lynch rebounds but can't shoot; just the opposite of Worthy.
Van Excel is a point guard with a questionable outside shot. Scott
was a shooting guard who couldn't dribble the ball.
Re. Georges Muresan --
I was hoping that Phoenix would draft him. Then, on their flights,
KJ could sit on Muresan's lap, claim he was the big guy's bastard son,
and fly for free!
Ken
|
| 10.749 | | DECWET::METZGER | This is the song that never ends. | Thu Jul 01 1993 17:24 | 9 |
|
I think Van excel's attitude in trying out for teams played a lot to do with
his fall in the draft.
Charlotte looks like a big winner again here...They are going to be extremely
formidible. Orlando was smart to dump weber for the deal they got. They'll have
a tough time signing all those #1's in the next few years though.
Metz
|
| 10.750 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Thu Jul 01 1993 17:27 | 2 |
| Wasn't McCaffery a senior?
|
| 10.752 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Thu Jul 01 1993 17:36 | 2 |
| The Suns need Rodman...
|
| 10.754 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Intel Inside, again! | Thu Jul 01 1993 18:32 | 5 |
|
The Suns are serious about Chris Dudley. I'm not sure why, he's put up
nothing but Mark West numbers over the past 6 years.
brews
|
| 10.755 | | SKEWED::MCKAY | | Thu Jul 01 1993 20:29 | 9 |
| Walt
It is McCaffery's 4th year in school but he has a year of
eligibilty left due to the year he had to sit out for the move
from Duke to Vandy.
Hurley in the top ten.....give me a break, he's this years
Tate George.
Jimbo
|
| 10.756 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Thu Jul 01 1993 20:56 | 10 |
| >Say Phoenix does get Rodman...
The difference between a small forward and a power forward is in name
only so that fans and announcers can distinquish between generalized
positions. In this example, both Charles and Dennis would play "power"
forward, probably Charles on the left and Dennis on the right. What is
the problem?
Marc
|
| 10.757 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Thu Jul 01 1993 21:28 | 7 |
| It gives Barkley a chance to play and shoot without having to spend his
time crashing the boards. Important especially if they want to try and
start a fast break.
Also gives them a guy who can play their toughes defensive guy. For
example, give Chaz a break from guarding Pippen if need be.
|
| 10.759 | Rodman Can Only Help | STRATA::BARBIERI | God can be so appreciated! | Fri Jul 02 1993 13:28 | 17 |
| re: .758
Are you saying that Rodman could not cover the small forward
at least as well as Dumas or Ceballos can? I think you are making
the false assumption that Rodman being a power forward necessitates
he must defend at that position. I've seen Rodman even shut down
centers and he can certainly defend the other four positions.
Sure, Rodman might be away from the basket more often by guarding
a small forward and that might lessen his rebounding numbers some,
but this is not reason enough to trade Dumas + two guys who logged
0 playing time in the playoffs. And on the offensive end, you'll
see a lot more rebounds!
They NEED Rodman. He'd be a great acquisition for any team.
Tony
|
| 10.761 | | WREATH::DEVLIN | Agassi - the Hairless wonder... | Fri Jul 02 1993 13:47 | 8 |
| Wait a second! Why do the Suns need anyone? Our resident Suns
expert, plus Suns players like Ainge have declared that they were
the better team this year - better than the Bulls. So, all they
need is a little luck or something to win it all. You guys are
talking like the Suns aren't the most incredibly gifted and talented
team in the NBA!
JD
|
| 10.762 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Fri Jul 02 1993 14:07 | 15 |
| If Rodman was in Phoenix, Dumas would be gone...
> I'm not assuming that at all. What I am assuming is that in Rodman
> all you get is a guy who plays the same position as Barkley but is
> a better defender and a weaker scorer. And I'm not so sure Rodman
> can guard the other four positions. Any pg or sg that can't take
> Rodman off the dribble belongs in the CBA.
Nope, I don't think so. Same position, maybe, but at 6'4", Barkley can
play small forward. He's a better defender, better on the glass.
If you have the world's best point guard, Barkley and Marjele scoring,
you don't need as much scoring from that spot, because your "team"
defense gets better. Rodman could cover a point guard, but I wouldn't
put him there. He could cover any of the other 4 spots. He did a
great job on Magic in the finals a few years ago.
|
| 10.764 | | ROYALT::ASHE | STOP! You're bendin' the shafts!!! | Fri Jul 02 1993 15:22 | 11 |
| dan'l sez hi... likes Graham, Burrell is ok... they'll be mean.
Wants to know if anyone is going to the final 4 down there.
Going square dancing Sunday with Bob. (not his date) Waiting to
razz him about the Phils.
They've gone in on Charlotte Panthers tickets. This week they started
accepting season ticket applications. They got 14,000 applications the
first day. Sounds like the Pats, don't it?
|
| 10.765 | More On The Worm | STRATA::BARBIERI | God can be so appreciated! | Fri Jul 02 1993 17:16 | 19 |
| On Rodman again. I guess we just disagree. Especially with
regard to who can guard small forwards better - Dumas or
Rodman. We really disagree on that one!!!
I suppose he might be a better fit elsewhere, but I believe
Rodman is one of the two best defensive players in the NBA
and one of the 3 best rebounders. And he really can cover the
guards, but I suppose a smaller guard might be too quick (but
who cares...he'd never be called on to cover a 6'2" guard).
Someone with Rodman's credentials has got to be a good fit
anywhere.
I admit I am really high on Rodman. I even thought he should have
been on the Dream Team. This is because they didn't need 11 or 12
guys capable of scoring 20+ points a game. One guy who would be
a fanatic defender/rebounder would have added beautiful chemistry.
Tony
|
| 10.767 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Tue Jul 06 1993 15:15 | 5 |
| Mashburn got dissed going behind Hardaway. He'll prove it in one year.
Unfortunately, he has to break in by playing for the Mavs...
Bummer.
|
| 10.768 | signings | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Tue Jul 13 1993 17:48 | 10 |
| NBA notes:
Cleveland signed Richie Richie Audubato and Ron Rothstein assistant
coaches.
LA Lakers signed Doug Christie to a multi-year contract.
Washington signed first round pick, Calbert Cheaney, to a 6 year deal.
TTom
|
| 10.769 | | WREATH::DEVLIN | It's just time to say hor d'oevre... | Fri Jul 16 1993 14:12 | 13 |
| The Golden State Warriors traded forward Tyrone Hill to the Cleveland for the Cavs
firts round draft pick nexted year, unless it is a lottery pick, iin which case
the Warriors get Cleveland's 1995 #1 pick.
Miami Heat guard Bimbo Coles will have surgery Sunday to repair a torn muscle in
his left shoulder and chest. He was hurt in a pickup game on Saturday.
P.J. Brown, the New Jersey Nets 1992 first round choice is in their rookie camp this
summer after spending last season in Greece following a contract dispute. He has
signed a 3-year deal with da Nets.
JD
|
| 10.770 | Kukoc, Bulls agree to terms | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Fri Jul 16 1993 14:46 | 9 |
| couple more:
The Knicks re-signed backup center Herb Williams, who was a_unsrestricted
free agent.
Tony Kukoc has reportedly agreed to sign a 7 year, $14+ M deal with the
Bulls. Signing to be nexted week.
TTom
|
| 10.771 | Hubie to the Clippers | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Mon Jul 19 1993 15:02 | 4 |
| Hubie Brown is being projected as the nexted Clippers coach. Reports are
that he will be offered a 4-year/$4 mil deal.
TTom
|
| 10.772 | not enough Smith's coaching in the NBA :-) | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Mon Jul 19 1993 15:52 | 5 |
| From ESPN's Did You Know segment. Did you know that this would be the
first time in NBA history that a team had 2 coaches in a row with the
same last name?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.773 | | WREATH::DEVLIN | It's just time to say hor d'oevre... | Mon Jul 19 1993 17:18 | 6 |
| Reportedly, Croatian Basketball star Tony Kukoc will sign with da BUlls today
for 8 years at a cool 17.9 million.
Riot in June!
JD
|
| 10.774 | CLARI says it's a done deal | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Mon Jul 19 1993 17:48 | 0 |
| 10.775 | Starts Nov. 5 | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Tue Jul 20 1993 18:35 | 10 |
| The NBA TV schedule came out today. Haven't seen the whole thing but on
TV for the opening night - Nov 5 - will be Chicago at Charlotte and
Phoenix at the Lakers. Both Chicago-Phoenix games will be televised.
The All-Star game is set for Sunday, Feb. 13 at Minneapolis at 6:30 EST.
All in all, NBC will carry 24 regular season Games O' the Week starting
on Christmas. TNT will carry 50 regular season games.
TTom
|
| 10.776 | only natural to show the 2 best (Phoenix&Chicago) | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Tue Jul 20 1993 19:12 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.777 | setting the stage? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Tue Jul 20 1993 19:17 | 6 |
| Now don't go out on a limb there, Mike.
Just so's everyone knows, are you making a prediction accountable by
CROWing if'n it's wrong or someone thinks it's wrong?
TTom
|
| 10.778 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jul 20 1993 19:20 | 3 |
| 10.779 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I like mine with french fried potatoes | Tue Jul 20 1993 19:28 | 4 |
| > -< only natural to show the 2 best (Phoenix&Chicago) >-
... in their respective conferences... although that should probably
be Chicago & Phoenix.... although we know Mike doesn't mean what he
sez and is just busting chops anyway....
|
| 10.780 | What significant additions has phoenix made ???? | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Tue Jul 20 1993 20:01 | 14 |
| I think it was great scheuling to put the best team in the league
for the past 3+ Seasons against one of the best up and coming teams
in the league. Charlottes keeps getting better and will be one of
the tops teams in the east very shortly. They could very well be
hosting a playoff game in round 1 this season :-)
You should definatly list that as Chicago & Phoenix, phoenix has shown
they were lucky to get to the finals but couldnt hold a candle to
Chicago, so I wouldnt go listing them ahead or above Chicago untill
they at least prove they belong in the finals. Well see how they do
this year... I see Chicago Improving, while in the west Phoenix could
very well drop down a level... Only time will tell...
MairB
|
| 10.781 | mixed messages | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Tue Jul 20 1993 20:51 | 8 |
| MairB,
I was witcha on the "keeps getting better" but lost you on the smiley.
I know. You're covering yourself early to avoid CROWing.
;-). Fer sure.
TTom
|
| 10.782 | experience was the only deciding factor | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Tue Jul 20 1993 22:54 | 9 |
| I meant they're the 2 best of now. Is that too hard to handle?
MAir, I'm disappointed in your second-guessing of Phoenix. Like I've
said before though, there were plenty that claimed they were lucky to
get to the finals and didn't feel they belonged there. Note 50 is
waiting for all of you.
If you don't think Phoenix belong in the finals, you don't know hoops.
Luck had very little, if anything, to do with it.
|
| 10.785 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Yes,Calgon took her away! | Wed Jul 21 1993 13:52 | 3 |
| His digging is working on ya Tommy!
tim
|
| 10.786 | hypocrites! | FRETZ::HEISER | light without heat | Wed Jul 21 1993 14:45 | 2 |
| That's funny, TCM said you folks forgive and forget. I've posted 2
entries in 50 and still get harassed.
|
| 10.787 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Jul 21 1993 14:50 | 1 |
| When did you start listening to TCM?
|
| 10.789 | | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Jul 21 1993 17:22 | 11 |
| > Neither of the 2 was a proper exercise in crow eating but it's
> over now and time to move on.
Talk about calling the kettle black. Personally Mr. Brydie I think
you're doing the right thing by not addressing your huge miscalculations
(i.e. Montross' bad 'D', Dean's bad coaching will cost UNC a Title)
but when you start criticizing others for the same stonewalling
tactics the hypocrisy becomes intolerable.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.791 | Post an entry in the crow note and I'll leave you alone. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Jul 21 1993 17:55 | 18 |
| re: .790
Obfuscation at its finest. I've only got two (2) problems:
1. It's the dead of summer, the Braves are 9 games back, and unless
I jump on the Red Sox bandwagon (which I'm considering, BTW) there
ain't a whole lot else to talk about;
B. Your quote was so outrageously wrong, so deliciously bad, that it
simply cannot be left alone, 'specially when yer puffing your
chest and accusing other noters of not owning up to their
appropriate helpings of crow pie. (Over an event that's been over
for many weeks now.)
HTH,
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.792 | You coming to Boston this summer, ACC? | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed Jul 21 1993 18:04 | 13 |
|
> 1. It's the dead of summer, the Braves are 9 games back, and unless
> I jump on the Red Sox bandwagon (which I'm considering, BTW) there
> ain't a whole lot else to talk about;
Yes, Chris, do it, do it! Red Sox are already up 3-1 in the third
today, with the main Clemens on the mound...
I figure that anyone who stood by the Snuffer in a year in which he won
it all can't bring any bad luck to the bandwagon...
glenn
|
| 10.794 | It's official: ACC Chris is on the Red Sox bandwagon! | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Jul 21 1993 18:45 | 20 |
| Actually Glenn you and me have common ground - I aim a Sox fan,
although since moving south would have to honestly call myself a
bandwagon jumper at this point. The Sox have just been so
uninteresting the last few years (Clemons excepted, of course) it's
been tough to get excited. They're still not terribly interesting, but
20/25 ain't too shabby, 'specially with all the close games and
comebacks.
The BoSox have put together more comebacks the last week than the
Braves have all year. (Lasted nights post-fire comeback from
zip-5 was most noteworthy. We're optimistic that Fred "Crime Dawg"
McGriff just might be the wakeup call to a team who's offense has been
in a deep, deep, deep freeze.
And, BTW, I AM coming to New England. Arriving 8/1 (Sunday), staying
in RI, returning 8/10 (Tuesday). I'll be on a camping trip in Vermont
from 8/5 (Thursday) thru 8/8 (Sunday).
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.795 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed Jul 21 1993 18:50 | 10 |
|
> And, BTW, I AM coming to New England. Arriving 8/1 (Sunday), staying
> in RI, returning 8/10 (Tuesday). I'll be on a camping trip in Vermont
> from 8/5 (Thursday) thru 8/8 (Sunday).
Too bad... Sox are on the road that entire stretch...
glenn
|
| 10.796 | Jinx?? 8^) | CTHQ::LEARY | McSorley,McFilthy,McNasty | Wed Jul 21 1993 20:10 | 6 |
| Oh,Oh...
.794, AccChris on bandwagon... Sox up 4-1 at time. Lessee what happens.
MikeL
|
| 10.797 | | ROYALT::ASHE | I like mine with french fried potatoes | Thu Jul 22 1993 02:09 | 2 |
| Since when does B follow 1?
|
| 10.798 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | NotTonightHun,I HaveA BookToRead! | Thu Jul 22 1993 02:51 | 1 |
| Eh?
|
| 10.799 | ditto on the eh? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's gonna wear maternity clothes! | Thu Jul 22 1993 12:27 | 10 |
|
Walt,
Wanna put that reply through the RCASO decoder ring and translate for
us?
I remain,
deening to wonk!
Kev
|
| 10.800 | take 2... | ROYALT::ASHE | I like mine with french fried potatoes | Thu Jul 22 1993 14:56 | 22 |
| re: .790
>Obfuscation at its finest. I've only got two (2) problems:
Guess so... since when does B come after 1?
1. It's the dead of summer, the Braves are 9 games back, and unless
I jump on the Red Sox bandwagon (which I'm considering, BTW) there
ain't a whole lot else to talk about;
B. Your quote was so outrageously wrong, so deliciously bad, that it
simply cannot be left alone, 'specially when yer puffing your
chest and accusing other noters of not owning up to their
appropriate helpings of crow pie. (Over an event that's been over
for many weeks now.)
HTH,
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.801 | Sixers sign Moses Malone | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Thu Aug 12 1993 16:21 | 11 |
| What goes around comes around ...
Philadelphia has signed Moses Malone to a multi-year contract. Malone
was a_unrestricted free agent who played for Milwaukee, although very
sparingly because of back problems.
Malone played for the 76ers from 83, the chamipionship year through 86.
Also, Malone is the only remaining ABA player in the NBA.
TTom
|
| 10.802 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Aug 12 1993 16:25 | 4 |
| Malone before the '83 playoffs - "four, four, four" and the 76'ers came within
1 game of doing just that. Awesome, awesome playoffs.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.803 | Think they signed Moses to tutor Bradley? ;-) | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | I like public transportation! | Thu Aug 12 1993 17:31 | 5 |
| What's amazing to me is that a couple of weeks ago, the Sixers got
rid of over half their roster, letting seven stiffs go. Then they
pick up this over the hill loser. I don't get it.
NAZZ
|
| 10.804 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Thu Aug 12 1993 17:37 | 4 |
| On ESPN last night they did mention that Malone would be there to tutor Bradley.
Pretty expensive tutoring.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.805 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | How'd you get so Rude and Reckless? | Thu Aug 12 1993 18:18 | 5 |
|
It'll be worth money to see Braley try the patent dipsydoo shoulder move
of Mo's. He'll probably fall backwards....
mike
|
| 10.806 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Noone loves me but my mother... | Thu Aug 12 1993 19:17 | 2 |
| They let Gilliam go to NJ too...
|
| 10.807 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Fri Aug 13 1993 14:02 | 5 |
| Michael Jordan's father, who had been missing for a couple of
weeks, was found dead in a swamp in (North/South?) Carolina
today.
Mike
|
| 10.808 | | CAM3::WAY | Sweet Home Chicago | Fri Aug 13 1993 14:06 | 9 |
| >Michael Jordan's father, who had been missing for a couple of
>weeks, was found dead in a swamp in (North/South?) Carolina
>today.
Wow, that must've just come in. They didn't say anything about it
on Imus this morning.
'Saw
|
| 10.810 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Fri Aug 13 1993 14:27 | 5 |
| That is really weird. They found the body on the 5th. He wasn't
reported missing... from reading that, does that mean they didn't
identify it until today? Why would the say he was missing if the
body was found a week before?
|
| 10.811 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Fri Aug 13 1993 14:48 | 6 |
| WEEI - Imus - didn't have that news at 9AM.
Jordan's did had gone off before, but never for this long a time.
Any speculation on cause of death - natural, accident, murder?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.812 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Fri Aug 13 1993 15:03 | 3 |
| And he was found in SC? The car was in NC? No one interested in
collecting some debts I hope...
|
| 10.813 | | ASDG::FOSTER | Like a Phoenix Rising | Fri Aug 13 1993 15:05 | 3 |
|
The latest I've heard is that he had a single bullet wound in the
chest. But that doesn't mean murder necessarily... just highly likely.
|
| 10.814 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Fri Aug 13 1993 15:09 | 4 |
| I think a shot to the chest and found in a creek in a different state
from where his car was found would suggest suicide was not a realistic
motive...
|
| 10.815 | Take it to the bank: Michael knows why his father died. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Fri Aug 13 1993 15:12 | 9 |
| If I were a skeptical main I'd say some inscrupulous mobster-type was
exacting some revenge for Mike's 10 cents_on_the_dollar loan repayment
methodology, but hey, what do I know.
It was probably just one of those random acts of bizaare and
unexplainable violence that plagues rural America.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.816 | Every week seems like something happens in sports | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Aug 13 1993 15:28 | 25 |
| Maybe Michael did it becuase his father made too much in haynes
commercial, or beat him in golf.
Who and Why is not as important as how his family is doing. To suggest
that this was Jordan's fault for not paying a Dept is JDish(TM).
Im a little confused as to why it took 3 weeks for them to say he
was missing and how long ago did they find his body ????? Im hearing
different things from different sources.
Was there an official newscast stating that the body found has been
positivly Identified as Mr Jordan ? And is the one bullett to the
chest fact, or speculation at this point (If they found the body today
have they dont an attopsy already ?).
Thanks in advacne for any info from real sources (new's, TV, Radio)...
Not an athlete but another addition to the long list of deaths in and
around sports this year....:-( :-( ..... Its one thing to die of
natural causes but this is too much.
On another note, whats up with the Player who may have or is being
accused of killing his ex pregnant girlfriend ????
MaB
|
| 10.817 | | CAM3::WAY | Sweet Home Chicago | Fri Aug 13 1993 15:38 | 30 |
| > Maybe Michael did it becuase his father made too much in haynes
> commercial, or beat him in golf.
You heard it here first.
> Thanks in advacne for any info from real sources (new's, TV, Radio)...
Oh yeah, I trust the media. Yep.
Personally, I think that a bullet wound to the chest, the condition of the
car, and the fact that the elder Jordan's body was found in another state,
plus all this hokus-pokus about the date of the body being found and
stuff smacks of one of three things:
1) rampant voodooism, that is taking over our
society
2) a suicide -- he probably slept with his hotel door
locked and chained too
3) a coverup.
'Saw
|
| 10.818 | A plausible scenario | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | I like public transportation! | Fri Aug 13 1993 17:46 | 5 |
| Reason for the week's delay in making the announcement after finding
the body was that the body had decomposed, and it took some time to
come up with the dental records necessary to provide a positive ID.
NAZZ
|
| 10.819 | | CAM3::WAY | Sweet Home Chicago | Fri Aug 13 1993 18:10 | 10 |
| > Reason for the week's delay in making the announcement after finding
> the body was that the body had decomposed, and it took some time to
> come up with the dental records necessary to provide a positive ID.
Actually, you're right, NAZZ.
It was just weird the way the news came out, that's all....
'Saw
|
| 10.820 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Fri Aug 13 1993 18:18 | 5 |
| And that happened today? I undersand what you're saying Nazz, if
they waited this long before announcing he was dead. They announced
he was missing yesterday. Not that he was found dead. Probably just
timing...
|
| 10.821 | | SALEM::TIMMONS | A waist is a terrible thing to mind | Mon Aug 16 1993 11:52 | 5 |
| I read where they had removed his fingers and jawbone prior to
cremating the remains, as they hadn't a clue as to who he was when he
was found.
Lee
|
| 10.822 | | ARNOLD::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Mon Aug 16 1993 12:49 | 20 |
| Two arrested for Killing Mr. Jordan, the freaks allegedly used his car
phone after "doing" him. Once they found out who they kilt, they tried
to cover up their tracks. (Couldn't turn back the phone bill log, tho)
They allegedly planned to rob someone, and Mr. J was sleeping on the
shoulder of I95, they found him and killed him.
A death resulting in an armed felony robbery, in N.C., runs a guy the
big murder one, which can lead a dirtbag to the hotseat.
Iffin they did it, their gonna fry, baby, fry.
I hope they don't let them plead out fer life or sumpthin.
Anti-gun people are using this for their campaign, my feelings are that
if Mr. J hadda gun he mighta still been here... (But I digress...)
Pretty sad. Very unlucky.
Chip_GSH_Bach
|
| 10.823 | Like a said: random act of rural violence. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Mon Aug 16 1993 13:00 | 8 |
| Guess all them folk who were saying that Papa Jordan's death simply
*must* be related to Mike's gambling problems are feeling just a tad
disapointed today.
Huff.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.824 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | | Mon Aug 16 1993 13:57 | 4 |
| > <<< Note 10.815 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
> -< Take it to the bank: Michael knows why his father died. >-
So what did this mean ?
|
| 10.825 | B.J. Armstrong & Dean were at the funeral, BTW. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Mon Aug 16 1993 14:00 | 12 |
| > So what did this mean ?
It simply means that Michael knew that his father died because of a
bullet his unlucky dad took to the chest (.38 caliber).
This evidence alone should've given all you doomsayers enough knowledge
to realize this wasn't no mob-style hit.
HTH,
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.826 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Mon Aug 16 1993 14:07 | 8 |
| > -< Take it to the bank: Michael knows why his father died. >-
>If I were a skeptical main I'd say some inscrupulous mobster-type was
>exacting some revenge for Mike's 10 cents_on_the_dollar loan repayment
>methodology, but hey, what do I know.
This wasn't leaning it that direction?
|
| 10.827 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Mon Aug 16 1993 14:16 | 26 |
|
>It simply means that Michael knew that his father died because of a
>bullet his unlucky dad took to the chest (.38 caliber)
You have GOT to be kidding Chris. If you had written "Michael knows
HOW his father died" that would have been one thing. However, you
stated "Michael knows WHY his father died", quite a different thing.
Now either you don't have a command of the English language, or most
peoples perception of what you wrote is correct. So which is it?
>This evidence alone should've given all you doomsayers enough
>knowledge to realize this wasn't no mob-style hit.
Oh really, do you have connections that we are unaware of that might
explain why that was the case. I did not think it was a mob hit, but
let's assume that I did...if the mob wanted him hit, why wouldn't they
want to use a weapon that is not commonly associated with it...wouldn't
that be a tactic to place blame elsewhere, naw, couldn't be that...BTW,
Chris, based on that statement, I have lost a little more faith in your
objective points of view.
Hope you enjoy the attention you will get from this statement.
Marc
|
| 10.828 | SPORTS noters are a cold, heartless bunch. :^( | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Mon Aug 16 1993 14:26 | 9 |
| Enough already people. Here I try to find a face-saving way to admit I
was wrong and all I get is ridicule. (Sniff, sniff.)
To all noters who may have lost just a tad of confidence in my usually
right-on style of Objective noting, let me apologize from the bottom of
my heart.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.829 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | | Mon Aug 16 1993 14:30 | 12 |
| > Enough already people. Here I try to find a face-saving way to admit I
> was wrong and all I get is ridicule. (Sniff, sniff.)
Sorry about that. My English is so poor that I didn't recognize your
admission.
> To all noters who may have lost just a tad of confidence in my usually
> right-on style of Objective noting, let me apologize from the bottom of
> my heart.
I suspect that most of us have just as much confidence in you as we
ever have.
|
| 10.830 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | squished tomatoes | Mon Aug 16 1993 16:04 | 6 |
|
If only JD and T were still here, we could have a massive
conspiracy-a-thon. Instead, we're just stuck with the facts (except
for Chris, that is).
brews
|
| 10.831 | | CAM3::WAY | Sweet Home Chicago | Mon Aug 16 1993 17:40 | 19 |
| Well, one could put for a theory that it was suicide.
I mean here is a man WITHOUT a heart condition, sleeping in his car
with the doors unlocked.
If Don Drysdale could commit suicide by locking his hotel door with a
known heart condition, then surely, Mr. Jordan did the same thing, in the
opposite way.
Sounds like a clear cut case to me.....
'Saw
(PS On a serious note, this whole thing has made me really sad. Are
we as a society THAT f***** up that person can't take a snooze in
their car any more without having to worry about this?)
|
| 10.832 | put that in your conspiracy | FRETZ::HEISER | beat them until morale improves | Mon Aug 16 1993 17:53 | 2 |
| Locks are irrelevant. They bust out the glass just like they would in
a hotel room.
|
| 10.833 | | CAM3::WAY | Sweet Home Chicago | Mon Aug 16 1993 19:30 | 5 |
| > Locks are irrelevant. They bust out the glass just like they would in
> a hotel room.
Oh, I thought that Lexus had that smash-proof Lexan glass....8^)
|
| 10.834 | them Japanese think of everything! ;-) | FRETZ::HEISER | one more song | Mon Aug 16 1993 19:58 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.835 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Mon Aug 16 1993 20:18 | 2 |
| I thought GE came up with Lexan..
|
| 10.836 | Hmm, never tried it. | SWAM2::MASSEY_VI | It's all in the cue | Mon Aug 16 1993 22:05 | 3 |
| I can't afford one so I don't care. I do have a '66 Stang.
TiTs One_who_will_never_contribute_anything_constructive.
|
| 10.837 | | ACESMK::FRANCUS | Mets in '93 | Tue Aug 17 1993 03:06 | 5 |
| afoordin' stuff is never an issue in this note. geez you've been in
here long enough to know that practical considerations are irrelevant :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.838 | Glad this is overwith quickly (from a fans aspect) | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Tue Aug 17 1993 15:02 | 19 |
| Its bad enough to be robbed and murdered, but then to have this done
by too idiots that used there victim's car phone to call help to strip
the car !! These murder's should get the chair for there own good.
I have no idea what kind of area he was parked in, maybe its just
sterotyping but when I think of NC and SC I dont vision people driving
around looking for someone to rob and kill....
This was definatly being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Im glad
they were stupid enough to help the police find them and get a quick
arrest so we(I) didnt have to listen to anyone else question weather
Michael J actualy had some cause to his father's death.
Also, If the mob had in fact order the hit I dont think they would have
wanted to hid that the gambling played a role. I think they would have
wanted to send a message to the 1000's of people who owe them money and
might be thinking about not paying.
MairB
|
| 10.839 | | CAM3::WAY | Sweet Home Chicago | Tue Aug 17 1993 15:50 | 29 |
| > Its bad enough to be robbed and murdered, but then to have this done
> by too idiots that used there victim's car phone to call help to strip
> the car !! These murder's should get the chair for there own good.
They'll probably end up getting the chair, and fortunately, their stupidity
led to a quick capture.
> I have no idea what kind of area he was parked in, maybe its just
> sterotyping but when I think of NC and SC I dont vision people driving
> around looking for someone to rob and kill....
On TV it looked like it was close to the highway (I95), and didn't look
like a bad area. I know I'll think twice before I stop on the highway
to snooze!
> Also, If the mob had in fact order the hit I dont think they would have
> wanted to hid that the gambling played a role. I think they would have
> wanted to send a message to the 1000's of people who owe them money and
> might be thinking about not paying.
Excellent point.
'Saw
|
| 10.840 | NC area bad | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Tue Aug 17 1993 16:05 | 23 |
| re: that area of NC and SC.
That area of NC is noted for a disproportionate amount of violent crime.
Fayetteville, NC, the largest city in the area, has a large concentration
of military personnel. For one reason or another, about every type of
crime, organized and random, flourishes in the vicinity. Prostitution,
drugs and stolen goods seem especially concentrated. When the
perpertrators of this crime decided they better dump the car, they knew
exactly where to take it to be sure that it was stripped and vandalized.
As for SC, it just happened to be part of the botched job. Apparently the
motive here was to dump the body some place differently. This area of SC
is rural and is known for not much crime of any type. This has led to one
of the controversies, that being the criticism for the cremation of the
body after what some consider a relatively brief time.
While some are trying to make a racial thing of this (e.g., Jesse
Jackson). You can be sure that this point will be beaten to death without
any reference to the facts that the Coroner and the Pathologist did their
jobs well. The autopsy show unequivocally the cause of death. The body
was accurately identified.
TTom
|
| 10.841 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Tue Aug 17 1993 16:14 | 16 |
| One of the suspects was found with Mr. Jordans Chicago Bulls rings.
I believe they found it at the home of a suspect. Pretty much colors
over any chance the morons could claim they found an empty car on
the road.
One of the lawyers is considering a competency claim based upon one of
the defendants having a learning disorder... (Yes, the Democrats are
in the White House!)
Sounds like these boyz are inna lot o' trouble.
The press also seems to be a bit embarrassed by their "mob-hit-gambling"
assertions, and have acted decently during the wake/funeral...
Chip_GSH_Bach
|
| 10.843 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Tue Aug 17 1993 16:26 | 4 |
| In a liberal-like, not-responsible for my actions, blame it on some
victim status, sort of way, its relevant to all of us...
;-)
|
| 10.844 | Jus' for you Mac :-) | METSNY::francus | Mets in '93 | Tue Aug 17 1993 16:26 | 6 |
| I'm sure MikeyH will be able to explain :-)
I know, I know MikeH that you did not put that note in there, so please
see the :-) and chill out :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.845 | TCM, get some height! | FRETZ::HEISER | one more song | Tue Aug 17 1993 16:50 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.846 | What am I missing? | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:05 | 8 |
| I've gotta admit to being perplexed by JesseJackson & Co. getting
involved in this claiming that somehow-or-other the cremation of Papa
Jordan's body was motivated by racism.
I just don't see the connection.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.847 | look alike? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:06 | 6 |
| Deos anyone else think that one of the accused, Larry Demery, looks like
Bud Bundy?
Just curious.
TTom
|
| 10.848 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:08 | 4 |
| I don't I ever saw Buds' hand shake like ole' Larry. The boy is in
deep squat and he knows it.
(Was it Larry who they found with James' ring?)
|
| 10.849 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | squished tomatoes | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:17 | 13 |
|
Chip,
You should know better than to say what you did. It is only
fashionable to make fun of the White House and its occupants when the
Republicans are in it. Please remember that in the future or you will
be forced to attend a seminar on Political Correctness in the 90's,
subtitled, How to Make $12,000 a Year and Still be Considered Upper
Class.
brews
|
| 10.851 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Everybody hurts... sometimes... | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:27 | 2 |
| Maybe that if it was someone else, they'd make more of an effort to
identify the body? I don't know...
|
| 10.852 | Suddenly this is a sensitive issue ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:29 | 7 |
| re: Brydie
Gee, didn't see you entering similar notes each and everytime BobHunt
would blame Reagan/Bush for [name_todays_latest_disaster].
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.853 | lest ya forget.... | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's gonna wear maternity clothes! | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:34 | 19 |
|
YEAH!!!!!
I agree, after all wasn't Reagan and Bush in office when
Jim McMahon got traded???????
;^)
I remain,
like Walt, I dunno....
Kev
|
| 10.855 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | squished tomatoes | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:46 | 17 |
| > <<< Note 10.852 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
> -< Suddenly this is a sensitive issue ... >-
> re: Brydie
>
> Gee, didn't see you entering similar notes each and everytime BobHunt
> would blame Reagan/Bush for [name_todays_latest_disaster].
As much as it pains me to say this, Chris essentially has paints my
point in the correct light. It seemed there was nothing wrong with
anything said about the White House a few years ago, and there were
quite a few more shots taken. Now, one off-handed remark brings the
wrath of a half dozen noters and mods. It doesn't happen just in
sports, and, in defense of Tommy, I don't think he was in this
notesfile back then, either.
brews
|
| 10.856 | K.I.S.S. method | FRETZ::HEISER | one more song | Tue Aug 17 1993 17:51 | 6 |
| I agree with Tommy in -1. The same Occam's Razor concept applies to
Jesse "I'm no Rev." Jackson. The legal authorities have a standard
procedure in cremating John Doe's because of the expenses involved in
body storage. Color has nothing to do with it. Jackson needs a life
so that he's too busy to jump in front of every ambulance that comes
down the turnpike.
|
| 10.857 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Tue Aug 17 1993 18:15 | 10 |
| Its all my fault... I'm sorry...
I usually use CARBUFFS for the transition from SOAPBOX to SPORTS, and
CARBUFFS was down... So what'd I do? I went from SOAP directly to
SPORTS, bringing with me, my disdain for Clinton and liberals in
general.
I'm sorry.
Chip_GSH_Bach
|
| 10.859 | It's politically correct to attack people in power, apparently | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Reggie Lewis - R.I.P. | Tue Aug 17 1993 19:40 | 9 |
| As a matter of fact, more shots have been take at Clinton and Gore in
their first six months in office than at Bush and Quayle in any six
period during their administration. Clinton takes on average 2 1/2
tiomes more shots by humorists, political commentators, and news
magazines than Bush, and even Gore-bashing is slightly ahead of
what Quayle got. This info was in that bastion of left wing
propaganda, TV Guide, about a month ago.
NAZZ
|
| 10.860 | | FRETZ::HEISER | one more song | Tue Aug 17 1993 20:10 | 4 |
| Re: -1
Of course, some officials provide more material. It's kind of ironic
that Clinton has bested Quayle in this regard. ;-)
|
| 10.862 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Aug 17 1993 20:14 | 8 |
| 10.863 | | CAM3::WAY | Roller Derby Roolz | Tue Aug 17 1993 20:23 | 11 |
| I went to college with a guy who worked for an undertaker. In his opinion,
by far the worst bodies to pick up were the ones that either drowned or
had been dumped in water, and were there for a while. He said he'd pick
up burnt up fire victims that would "crisp off" when he picked up the body
bag and that never bothered him like "water victims".
So, with all due respect, I'm sure Mr. Jordan had to have been in BAD
shape....
'Saw
|
| 10.864 | Probably had snakes crawlin' out his eye sockets and stuff ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Aug 17 1993 20:32 | 8 |
| re: body condition
I'm sure the consistent 90+ degree temperatures contributed to some
big-time body deterioration, not to mention the fact that the swamp he
was found in was said to be "snake infested".
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.865 | | DECWET::METZGER | Non-alcoholic beer. What's the point? | Tue Aug 17 1993 20:40 | 12 |
|
What's to discuss? The press releasea from the coroners office said that they
had to cremate the body because of its advanced state of decomposition and
there was no way to stop it. The Jordan family has not raised this issue at all.
The only person making a stink about it is the media chasing, spotlight
grabbing, I know what's better for you than you do Rev Jesse Jackson.
Jackson should just shut up, slink away and wait for the next chance to grab
some media time.
Metz
|
| 10.866 | Yeah, just like in Raiders of the Lost Ark! | CAM3::WAY | Roller Derby Roolz | Tue Aug 17 1993 20:47 | 17 |
| > <<< Note 10.864 by RHETT::KNORR "Carolina Blue" >>>
> -< Probably had snakes crawlin' out his eye sockets and stuff ... >-
Chris,
I wanna party wif you, DUDE!
'Saw_for_Hawk
PS Say, ain't you gonna be up this way sometime soon? I'd heard a
rumor of an ACC Chris trip to New England.....
|
| 10.867 | ACC_Chris hasn't got the gonolies to show up here | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Reggie Lewis - R.I.P. | Wed Aug 18 1993 15:01 | 3 |
| Let us know far enough in advance so can all be outta town! ;-)
NAZZ
|
| 10.868 | Bright Guys... | SPIKED::SWEENEY | Tom Sweeney in OGO | Wed Aug 18 1993 16:31 | 6 |
| Heard this morning that the dim-witted killers not only had the ring, but
also had taken some video tapes of the ring while showing it off.
Where the heck is society going too?
t
|
| 10.869 | brain dead | FRETZ::HEISER | one more song | Wed Aug 18 1993 16:50 | 1 |
| I'm surprised they didn't order pizza from the cellular phone.
|
| 10.870 | but they (allegedy) called 1-900-xxxxxxx | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's gonna wear maternity clothes! | Wed Aug 18 1993 18:35 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.871 | Williams to Denver | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Fri Aug 20 1993 16:00 | 11 |
| Couple of going ons:
Orlando has traded forward Brian Williams to Denver for guard Todd Lichti
and forward Anthony Cook. This move clears up some money under the cap
for Penny Hardaway.
Houston has fired and rehired Calvin Murphy. The other day he was fired
from his front office job and now's he's been hired to do something that
sounds like it's about the same thing: charitable community services.
TTom
|
| 10.872 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real mans sport is starting! | Fri Aug 20 1993 19:35 | 4 |
| Anyone know much about this Brian Williams? I'v never heard o'him..
Tim
|
| 10.873 | hope this helps | FRETZ::HEISER | slow burn | Fri Aug 20 1993 20:15 | 1 |
| BW is from the Lute Olsen School of Underacheivers
|
| 10.874 | Life of Brian | HBAHBA::HAAS | Lower Melvin | Fri Aug 20 1993 21:00 | 22 |
| Brian Williams originally played for Maryland. When they went on
probation he transfered to Arizona.
He was a first round pick by the Magic a year or so ago but has had
several medical problems that curbed his development. The main problem
was that he had to be hospitalized for depression and it looked like he
might not be able to stand the stress of NBA.
He was OKd to play again lasted year.
This trade is merely a salary cap move. The Magic would like to have had
Williams for this year but can't afford him and their first round choice
Penny Hardaway. This move alone does not free up enough money so look for
the Magic to make some more moves. They're about tapped out with
restructuring anyone's contract since they did that already in order to
sign Shaq. Prominently mentioned are Scott Skiles, who's obviously
expendible now, and Dennis Scott who at $3M a year and injury prone will
be very difficult to move.
The Magic are hoping to build around Shaq, Hardaway and Nick Anderson.
TTom
|
| 10.875 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real mans sport is starting! | Mon Aug 23 1993 12:32 | 3 |
| Thanks for the info...
Tim
|
| 10.876 | NBA pre-season game | PAOXCS::ECHANTILLAC | Jean-Pierre Echantillac @ATY | Wed Sep 01 1993 13:29 | 6 |
| Has anybody heard about a NBA pre-season game (or a regular one ?) which
should take place in London (UK) ?
rgds,
Jean-Pierre.
|
| 10.877 | Dudley contract to be approved | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Fri Sep 10 1993 18:34 | 10 |
| An arbitrator in the dispute of Chris Dudley's contract with Portland
says that he'll rule that it's valid. The league has been arguing that it
would circumvent the Salary Cap rules.
At dispute was a one-year contract termination clause that the NBA said
was in conflict with acceptable player contracts.
This is the second ruling against the league on this contract.
TTom
|
| 10.878 | This should mean Kukoc is a bull | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Sep 10 1993 20:02 | 9 |
| I guess this means that Kukoc is a bull, plus they signed Kerr and
I know there High (and already signed) on one of there rookies. So
this is 3 additions... I can see there team already forming...Looks
good to me.. :-)
MaB
Between Chicago and Charlotte the rest might as well stay home
next season...
|
| 10.879 | Kukoc arbitration? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Fri Sep 10 1993 20:05 | 5 |
| The arbitrator rulings are only for the Dudley contract.
Has the Bulls or Kukoc requested arbitration on their contract?
TTom
|
| 10.880 | | CAM3::WAY | Hers for the taking.... | Wed Sep 15 1993 15:11 | 9 |
| Vin Baker, 6'11" out of the University of Hartford signed a 10-year
contract with Milwaukee yesterday.
I don't have any terms but it's what I heard on the news.
Has Scott Burrell signed with Charlotte yet? I haven't heard.....
'Saw
|
| 10.882 | | CAM3::WAY | Hers for the taking.... | Wed Sep 15 1993 15:15 | 8 |
| >
> Yes, Burrell has signed. Look for him to see some duty guarding Jordan.
>
Cool. I'm pleased. I might even watch some basketball this season.....
'Saw
|
| 10.883 | 650K, +, +, + | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Wed Sep 15 1993 15:26 | 10 |
| Burrell did indeed sign. He got the 650K slot the league allows for teams
over the cap to sign their top rookie. Although the second draft, the
Hornets gave Greg Graham to Philly as part of the Hersey Hawkins trade.
In addition to the 650K, he gets the allowable raise each year. I think
thats around 30% (right, Nazz?). He and the Hornets have options after
the third year. I don't remember what beyond the first year is
guaranteed.
TTom
|
| 10.884 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Wed Sep 15 1993 15:52 | 13 |
|
Too bad about Scott Burrell. The kid had a pretty bright future as a
baseball pitcher (albeit with Toronto, one of the teams on my enemies
list ;-). As far as the money and security end of it goes, I can
understand his decision. Basketball is more of a sure thing for him
right at the moment, although the money he potentially could have made
with his 90+ mph fastball is much greater (on the downside, there's a
chance he'd never get out of the minors). Since either side is
financially attractive in some respect, best to go with where your
heart is...
glenn
|
| 10.885 | | CAM3::WAY | Hers for the taking.... | Wed Sep 15 1993 15:55 | 24 |
| > Too bad about Scott Burrell. The kid had a pretty bright future as a
> baseball pitcher (albeit with Toronto, one of the teams on my enemies
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Because of this I was pleased to see him go hoops, even though I personally
like baseball better.
> understand his decision. Basketball is more of a sure thing for him
> right at the moment, although the money he potentially could have made
> with his 90+ mph fastball is much greater (on the downside, there's a
> chance he'd never get out of the minors). Since either side is
> financially attractive in some respect, best to go with where your
> heart is...
I hope he does well. I've watched him for a few years (he'll always
be special to UCONN fans because of his pass to set up The Shot) and it'll
be nice to see him in the pro ranks.
I hope he gets some good PT...
'Saw
|
| 10.886 | not from this end | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Wed Sep 15 1993 16:00 | 7 |
| > Too bad about Scott Burrell.
He doesn't seem to think so, at least this isn't what he's publicly
saying. He's giving us the impression that he's happy to be with the
Hornets.
TTom
|
| 10.887 | It's rule #24,822 of the salary cap | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Reggie Lewis - R.I.P. | Wed Sep 15 1993 18:12 | 4 |
| If'n it's you're first contract, the price is allowed to go up 30% each
year and not be affected by the salary cap. Why, not even God knows.
NAZZ
|
| 10.888 | | JURAN::MCKAY | | Wed Sep 15 1993 18:23 | 5 |
| My UCONN spies tell me Burrell had shoulder problems last season or
the season before so the decision was easy. He is a talent but is
a streak shooter, hwo could thrive in the wide open NBA.
Jimbo
|
| 10.889 | | DECWET::METZGER | Good mornin' america, how are ya'? | Wed Sep 15 1993 18:23 | 7 |
|
but does his salary count toward the cap if they want to sign a free agent or
do a new contract for an existing player?
I be confused,
Metz
|
| 10.890 | gotta have the money under the cap | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Wed Sep 15 1993 18:37 | 9 |
| The Hornets are already over the cap. The "exemption" allows you to sign
a rookie, within the limits of 650K +30% per year. You could only sign
someone else if'n you're under the cap which pretty much eliminates most
of the teams.
Any new free agent or any new contract directly hits the cap and must fit
within it.
TTom
|
| 10.891 | I'd be happy with 1/2 of that amount | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Fri Sep 17 1993 13:06 | 10 |
|
Yabbut doncha know that Bobby "makes_me_wanna" HURLey also signed a
6 year contract for somethang like $16 million buckeroos (US dollars).
I thought he was too small to play in da NBA......
I remain,
wondering about callin a GM and askin for a tryout......
Kev
|
| 10.893 | big Bullet signed | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Fri Sep 17 1993 14:56 | 20 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Bullets sign Muresan
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 21:40:41 PDT
LANDOVER, Md. (UPI) -- The Washington Bullets on Thursday signed 7-
foot-7 center Gheorghe Muresan of Romania to a one-year, non-guaranteed
contract for the minimum $150,000.
Muresan, the Bullets' second selection and the 30th overall pick in
the 1993 NBA Draft, met with the Washington media Thursday at a news
conference.
Muresan is the tallest player ever drafted in the NBA, as well as the
first player drafted by the Bullets from a league overseas.
Muresan averaged 18.7 points, 10.3 rebounds and 2.8 blocks for Pau
Orthez of the French League last season.
``We've always needed a third center, because Pervis (Ellison) will
be playing a lot of power forward,'' said Washington general manager
John Nash.
The Bullets acquired center Kevin Duckworth from Portland for Harvey
Grant earlier in the summer.
|
| 10.894 | Bench space | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Fri Sep 17 1993 15:31 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.895 | Lots of bench space! | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | SFGiants'93,NYStockExchange'29 | Fri Sep 17 1993 17:08 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.896 | '93-'94 Predictions | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Sep 22 1993 17:19 | 28 |
| (NOTE: these were written a couple of months ago, so it isn't aware of any
late-summer moves, like the Hornets-Sonics-Sixers trade, Dumas, etc.
but it does take into account the deaths of Reggie Lewis and Drazen Petrovic).
Petersen's NBA '93-'94 predictions:
ATLANTIC CENTRAL MIDWEST PACIFIC
1. Knicks Bulls Rockets Suns
2. Nets Cavaliers Spurs Supersonics
3. Magic Hornets Jazz Trail Blazers
4. 76ers Bucks Nuggets Warriors
5. Bullets Hawks Timberwolves Kings
6. Celtics Pacers Mavericks Lakers
7. Heat Pistons --- Clippers
The pick is a Suns-Knicks Final, with Sir Charles edging out Ewing for the
title.
Street & Smith's predictions:
ATLANTIC CENTRAL MIDWEST PACIFIC
1. Knicks Bulls Rockets Suns
2. Magic Cavs Jazz Sonics
3. Nets Hawks Spurs Warriors
4. Heat Hornets Mavs Blazers
5. Celtics Pacers Nuggets Lakers
6. Bullets Pistons T-Wolves Clippers
7. 76ers Bucks -------- Kings
|
| 10.897 | glunton for punishment??? | 38728::CHILDS | ERS, cause everybody can't play U2 | Wed Sep 22 1993 17:35 | 0 |
| 10.898 | how is that, Mike? | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Sep 22 1993 17:52 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.899 | by plagerizing opinions that you agree with? | 38728::CHILDS | ERS, cause everybody can't play U2 | Wed Sep 22 1993 17:54 | 3 |
|
|
| 10.900 | nice reach you got there | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Sep 22 1993 18:00 | 2 |
| "BZZZT! Wrong answer but thanks for playing. Tell him what his
consolation prize is, Don."
|
| 10.901 | who died and left you in charge??? | 38728::CHILDS | ERS, cause everybody can't play U2 | Wed Sep 22 1993 18:06 | 8 |
|
>> <<< Note 10.900 by FRETZ::HEISER "AWANA" >>>
>> -< nice reach you got there >-
>> "BZZZT! Wrong answer but thanks for playing. Tell him what his
>> consolation prize is, Don."
|
| 10.902 | if I told you, I'd have to kill you ;-) | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Sep 22 1993 18:07 | 1 |
| > -< who died and left you in charge??? >-
|
| 10.903 | tv | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Thu Sep 23 1993 18:26 | 1 |
| Does anyone have the NBC and TNT schedules yet?
|
| 10.904 | Sixers sign Graham | HBAHBA::HAAS | Primus Caverns Guy | Thu Sep 23 1993 21:34 | 6 |
| CLARI just reported that Philly has signed Greg Graham, the first round
pick that came from Charlotte in the Hersey Hawkins trade.
No terms were given.
TTom
|
| 10.905 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Mon Sep 27 1993 18:48 | 5 |
| Look fer da'bulls.
fo'peat.
Chip_GSH_Bach
|
| 10.906 | Rumors, signings, arrests | HBAHBA::HAAS | Carlina Blue: Politically Correct | Tue Sep 28 1993 16:21 | 20 |
| NBA doings and rumors:
Lakers may be ready to sign A.C. Green. Supposedly they are working on a
5 year, 15 mil type contract that has an escape clause like that of Chris
Dudley that the league is fighting in court.
San Antonio signed 7'5" Chuck Nevitt. Nevitt, from NC State, would be
playing 5th team in 7 years: Houston (twice), Detroit, Chicago and the
Lakers where he won a ring in 85.
Olden Polynice was arrested on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon.
Supposedly, he pointed a loaded gun at his girl friend during the kinda
heated situations that rival sometimes get into. The woman claims he
threatened to shoot her. No word wether the police will take care of this
internally.
Golden State signed restricted free agent Keith "Mister" Jennings.
Jennings blew a knee lasted year and missed 70 some games.
TTom
|
| 10.907 | | ROYALT::ASHE | check da hook while da DJ revolves it | Tue Sep 28 1993 17:03 | 2 |
| AC Green signs a $15 million, 5 year deal with Phoenix with a "Dudley
clause" in about 5 minutes...
|
| 10.908 | Marciulionis out for season | HBAHBA::HAAS | Broons roolz | Wed Sep 29 1993 13:28 | 7 |
| Golden State Warriors guard Sarunas Marciulionis blew a knee playing in a
pickup game. He tore his anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee and
is expected to miss the complete season.
Last year Marciulionis missed over 50 games due to injuries.
TTom
|
| 10.909 | Isn't it the same knee too? | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Sep 29 1993 15:13 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.910 | caint remember | HBAHBA::HAAS | Broons roolz | Wed Sep 29 1993 15:21 | 0 |
| 10.911 | A/C Green is a Phoenix Sun. | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen 592-5249 | Wed Sep 29 1993 15:42 | 3 |
| The Suns dealt a serious blow to the Western Division by stealing Green
from the Lakers.
|
| 10.912 | haw haw | FRETZ::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Sep 29 1993 15:45 | 3 |
| Jerry West isn't very happy either (from what I saw of his interview
last night). But what do we know? Peter Vecsey says AC can't play D
and is an "adequate" rebounder.
|
| 10.913 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | ERS, cause everybody can't play U2 | Wed Sep 29 1993 16:20 | 6 |
|
Face it Mike you got the wrong guy. If they hadn't been so stupid and made
the deal for Rodman last year, none of this would be necessary and we might
and it's a big "might" too, not have had a three-peat...
mike
|
| 10.914 | Nice outstanding citizen | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Sep 29 1993 17:20 | 16 |
| Anyone hear anything on the Tony Kukoc Contract, he was signed, then
the contract was in doubt and I havnt heard anything since ?????????
The bulls will still be a very strong team, but I thinks its very
uncertain on exactly how MJ is handling the latest disaster in his
life. No will know what physical effect his mental state will have
on his game, he was very close to his father and its not like he
died of old age or something they could see coming....
Looking forward to the season, just hope MJ will bounce back from
all of this. They had a short skit on Court TV about one of the
2 involved in the Killing of James Jordan. He was on parole for
assault (or attempted murder) for Hitting a guy in the HEAD with
an AXE... What a great country....
mab
|
| 10.915 | grounded for Life and day!!! | CNTROL::CHILDS | ERS, cause everybody can't play U2 | Wed Sep 29 1993 17:31 | 11 |
| >. He was on parole for
> assault (or attempted murder) for Hitting a guy in the HEAD with
> an AXE... What a great country....
yeah and for every joker like this there's atleast 10 guys on parole
making a contribution and getting on with a straight and fruitfull
life. With the above attitude you display, I'd hate to be one of your
kids.....
mike
|
| 10.916 | Grounded for life and a day, I'll remember that one | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Sep 29 1993 17:41 | 13 |
| He hit a GUY WITH AN AXE !!!!! Granted I dont have all the facts but
the little I know about the guy is he hit a guy in the head with an
axe and then shot a man in his sleep.....??????
The fact that the first guy he tried to kill lived is what enabled him
to get back on the street to kill again. I beleive in parole but not
for all crime's !!!!!
Your right, the news only plays stories about the guys on parole that
kill, steal or Rape again nothing about the 10,000 that are contibuting
to society, but Violent Criminals are let out too soon too often...
MaB
|
| 10.917 | prison, marriage: about the same ;-) | HBAHBA::HAAS | Broons roolz | Wed Sep 29 1993 18:12 | 17 |
| The guys charged with killing Mr. Jordan are indeed quite a pair.
The reason that both were out in the streets is due to a quirk of law in
NC, but reflects a general problem. North Carolina lost a lawsuit about
overcrowding and the federal appeals court set a limit to the TOTAL
prison population allowed within existing facilities. In short and simple
terms, this means that for every new prison inmate, the state must let
one out. There is no rhyme nor reason to how the one to let go is
selected.
As for how many get out and how many stay out, I think the statistics
show that most repeat offenders repeat often. It's kinda like divorce
stats. While ~50% of the marriages may end in divorce, you find a few who
have been married over and over again and many who have never been
divorced.
TTom
|
| 10.918 | Celtics signings | HBAHBA::HAAS | Broons roolz | Fri Oct 01 1993 19:49 | 4 |
| The Celtics signed free agent Travis Mays. Also signed were Rodney
Monroe, Lamont Strothers and Matt Wenstrom.
TTom
|
| 10.919 | Parade in June! | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | SOMFAOLMUFA | Fri Oct 01 1993 21:02 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.920 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | MEts in (last in) 94 | Fri Oct 01 1993 21:35 | 1 |
| Didn't Westrom play for da Broons?
|
| 10.921 | What will Charlie say now? | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Sat Oct 02 1993 15:13 | 10 |
| Dennis Rodman is now a Spur, or should I say will be a spur in the
Suns' butts;^)
He and the Robinson along with Carr might be a defensive powerhouse,
not to mention rebound leading.
Sean Elliot was sent to 'Pins. The 2 teams also swapped a couple of
no names....
Tim
|
| 10.922 | | ROYALT::ASHE | check da hook while da DJ revolves it | Sat Oct 02 1993 23:59 | 2 |
| Dave Wood will see some backup time. Morris won't...
|
| 10.923 | Great deal for Detrioit | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | The Mouseketeers are after me! | Mon Oct 04 1993 12:02 | 10 |
| Still was a steal for the Pistons. They get rid of a headache for
an all star who is seven years younger, and who has a reputation as
a chior boy.
Pistons' biggest weakness last year (besides Isiah of course!) was
lack of frontcourt scoring. Elliott certainly addresses that need.
Pistons now will challenge Cleveland for second place in the Central
behind the Bulls.
NAZZ
|
| 10.924 | | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Mon Oct 04 1993 16:02 | 10 |
| I don't see the Spurs being a major problem for Phoenix. They lost
20ppg and have nobody to step up and replace Elliott. Having the NBA's
2 best rebounders is great, but you still have to score some to get a
decent seed for the playoffs. No wonder rumors out of San Antonio are
that Lucas wants to trade for Dumas.
We should get Robinson for him for the way Lucas conspired to get
Rodman. ;-)
Mike
|
| 10.925 | finally here | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 14:53 | 1 |
| 3 more days until camp opens for the real main's sport.
|
| 10.926 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | GoPats. GoToStLouis,Baltimore... | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:22 | 3 |
| Hockey camps have been open for at least a month Mike...
/Don
|
| 10.927 | | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:30 | 1 |
| If I was referring to hokey, I wouldn't have put it in this topic.
|
| 10.928 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | GoPats. GoToStLouis,Baltimore... | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:32 | 4 |
| ...well when you said a *real main's sport* I figured you couldn't
have meant basketball!
/Don
|
| 10.929 | Doc Rivers can't skate | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:33 | 1 |
| The NY Thugs don't wear skates.
|
| 10.930 | | CAM3::WAY | Off the roll, Quick march! | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:35 | 1 |
| Basketball, the Sport of Scalp Massages and Men Smooching each other....8^)
|
| 10.931 | | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:36 | 2 |
| I bet the Spurs offer up Reid or Carr to the Magic for Scott Skiles
now. They're power-forward heavy and need a decent PG.
|
| 10.932 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | GoPats. GoToStLouis,Baltimore... | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:40 | 5 |
| Spurs have the look of a team that's good enough to win 50 games
and bad enough for a first round exit in the playoffs. Should be a
cakewalk to the Finals for the Suns.
/Don
|
| 10.933 | Vecsey Rumor Mill | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:41 | 41 |
| Article 53559 of rec.sport.basketball.pro:
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Vescey, 10-2
Much to my surprise, today's NY Post contained another column
by Peter Vescey. I guess the one from yesterday was supposed
to have run on Tuesday, while today's was supposed to have
run yesterday (before the latest Post "death").
Anyway, today's summary will be pretty short, since the lead
rumor of today's column was something that wound up actually
happened shortly after the early edition of the Post (the one I
get in Philly) went to press: the Rodman-Elliot deal. Since that
has now gone from rumor to fact, it has no place in my posts.
Rumormongering only, dammit! :-)
JAMAL MASHBURN: Mash figures to sign soon with Dallas for
about $3.6M per over six years. The two sides
are still arguing over a seventh year (not sure
who wants it)
JR RIDER: "Isaiah" is asking for the same numbers as Mash
($3.6M), about $300G more than the T-Wolves are
offering.
BULLS: Jerry Krause tried to pick up Tom Gugliotta from the
Bullets, but essentially offered nothing. Vescey jokes that
he "did offer Bullet management good seats for the finals,
though, so they could see Gugliotta play."
BJ ARMSTRONG: On other Bulls fronts, BJ, who'll be a RFA after
this season, is asking for $3M per for any kind of
contract extension. Bulls are offering $2.5M.
JOE DUMARS: The Piston's extended his three-year contract for
an additional year at $4M.
KNICKS: NY is considering Chucky Brown, Marcus Liberty, and
Anthony Bonner for the remaining $650,000 slot that
they got when they waived Bo.
NETS: Vescey predicts that once the Pistons waive Mark
Aguirre to free up room to sign Hunter and Houston,
that Chuck Daly (who needs a backup for Chris Morris)
will pick him up for the minimum.
That's pretty much it for today. See ya next time!
|
| 10.934 | Webber & Warriors | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:42 | 3 |
| In addition to -1, Chris Webber wants $50M over 8 years (Shawn
Bradley-like numbers). I don't think the Warriors have any choice but
to sign him to keep up with the West.
|
| 10.935 | Bonner signed | HBAHBA::HAAS | Over the wall | Tue Oct 05 1993 15:45 | 6 |
| Anthony Bonner signed with the Knicks.
And what's with Daly going for the over-the-hills. Lasted year he got
Bernard King and now it's Mark Aquirre.
TTom
|
| 10.936 | | 36016::WAY | Off the roll, Quick march! | Tue Oct 05 1993 16:43 | 3 |
| >Anthony Bonner signed with the Knicks.
huh-huh, huh-huh-huh.... he said boner.....
|
| 10.937 | Matt is "signed", but what does that mean? | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Oct 05 1993 17:08 | 6 |
| > Matt Wenstrom signed by the Celtics
What exactly are Matt's chances of sticking with the C's?
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.938 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | GoPats. GoToStLouis,Baltimore... | Tue Oct 05 1993 17:18 | 6 |
| 10.939 | good after all he ain't no homeboy | CNTROL::CHILDS | That SIR is an Unmitigated Fabrication | Tue Oct 05 1993 17:18 | 8 |
|
> Matt Wenstrom signed by the Celtics
>> What exactly are Matt's chances of sticking with the C's?
Just cannon folder for AC.....
|
| 10.940 | If hot air = vertical leap, Kev could dunk! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | The Mouseketeers are after me! | Tue Oct 05 1993 17:58 | 4 |
| Wenstrom has as much chance of making the Celtics roster as our
own Kev "Air" Farley.
NAZZ
|
| 10.941 | Jordan to have foot surgery | HBAHBA::HAAS | Over the wall | Tue Oct 05 1993 18:50 | 30 |
| Article: 9552
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Toe surgery to ground Air Jordan
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 10:42:02 PDT
CHICAGO (UPI) -- Michael Jordan will undergo foot surgery later this
year, hoping to cure a recurring foot infection that caused him to miss
two games last season, Bulls officials said.
The surgery has not yet been scheduled, but Jordan is expected to
miss at least two weeks of training camp because of the operation. Bulls
vice president of basketball operations Jerry Krause Monday said Jordan
will need that time to recuperate from the surgery.
The procedure consists of sewing two toes together to prevent corns
from growing and becoming infected, said Bulls' physician Dr. John
Hefferon. Jordan had a similar operation on his left foot four years
ago.
``It's a common thing, we do it all the time and it's a good way to
get rid of the problem,'' Hefferon told the Chicago Sun-Times. ``It's
not to big a deal for him.''
The newspaper reported Jordan had planned to undergo the surgery this
summer. But both Hefferon and Bulls' trainer Chip Schaefer said they had
not spoken to Jordan in three months about the surgery.
``We don't know what we're going to do yet, no decision has been
made,'' Shaefer said.
``We'll do it as soon as we can,'' Krause said. ``He's in the process
of mourning and we're very careful about that.''
Jordan was golfing in Florida Monday and was scheduled to return to
Chicago Tuesday to throw out the first ball at the Chicago White Sox-
Toronto Blue Jays American League Playoff opener.
|
| 10.942 | unprovoked attack but there is an element of troof | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Tue Oct 05 1993 19:27 | 21 |
|
Oooooooo
ZING!!!!!! BULLSEYE!!!!!
OUCH!
that smarts :*(
BUT, actually, one time in my life I actually did dunk! It was when I
was a senior in HS, in fantastic shape (gold medal track stuff), and
I was fooling around in the gym. Granted, it wasn't a big time stuff
or anything but I got up just high enough for my second knuckle
to sorta bend over the rim and push the ball down. I DUNKED!!!!!
However, I still haven't gotten a call from Dave Gavitt :^(
I remain,
at one time, way up there
Kev
|
| 10.943 | I'm gullible, but not *that* gullible! | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Oct 05 1993 19:30 | 5 |
| Kev if U dunked a regulation-sized basketball on a regulation-height
hoop (read: 10 Feet) then I'm a closet Duke hoops fan.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.944 | ;-) | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 19:38 | 6 |
| Well if Chris can root for the Braves, Duke isn't out of the question.
Re: Jordan
Sewing his toes together? Ouch! Put's a whole new meaning to the
3-toed sloth.
|
| 10.945 | Hakeem leaving Houston? | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Tue Oct 05 1993 20:35 | 6 |
| The "Hakeem Olajuwon Trade" rumors are starting again. Los Wages(tm)
has bumped their odds for winning the NBA title from 5:1 down to 10:1
in the last week.
curiouser & curiouser,
Mike
|
| 10.946 | Now we Know!!!!!!!! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Wed Oct 06 1993 01:44 | 28 |
|
<sound of creeking door hinges>
KREeeekkkkk
"Hullo?"
"Hello, are you AKK Chris?"
"Yup"
"Hiya, I'm Coach K and I'm really glad to meet ya. I hear you are
a Blue Devil Fan. How long ya been hiding in the closet?"
"Damm, I didn't think that little sheyit really did it. Well CoachK,
not only have I been in the closet but I am proud to admit that while
there, I didn't touch myself or do other nasty things. I guess I been
in the closet ever since I had a un_natural encounter with some guy
named Dean. The guy's a strange one ya know."
"Yeah, I know...."
;^)
I remain,
getting ready for the dastistical(tm) stuuf to logically prove it!
Kev
|
| 10.947 | did it! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Wed Oct 06 1993 02:11 | 32 |
|
Yabbbut now to the question!
ACC_Chris, while I admit (based on popular concensus) to being
vertically challenged, I'll never agree that I was atheletically
challenged!
Granted, this was twenty-five years ago and I know I cain't prove that
I can do it today (since I can't)
What does this indicate?
I've run a 10.1 100 yard dash
I'm a multi-NYC sprint champ
I've high jumped my height
I've long jumped ~20 feet (figure out the height needed to do this)
I ran 180 yd and 440 yd IH hurdles (and won a 3rd place medal in the
college regionals in the 440IH)
IMO, it means I have pretty strong legs and am pretty quick!
I have a flat foot reach of 7'2". All I need to get to the 10" (and
add 3" for my knuckles so make it 10'3") is a 36" vertical. Now,
the question is can a guy, in terrific shape who can do the above,
have the speed and leg strength to jump 3 feet?
Glad yer gullible but this is one fact jack you can take to the bank!
I remain,
very proud that I did it and hold my head high!
Kev
|
| 10.948 | Bring on the facts | PFSVAX::JACOB | Umgwana Cik Buudie | Wed Oct 06 1993 02:30 | 9 |
|
>>I ran 180 yd and 440 yd IH hurdles (and won a 3rd place medal in the
But, Kev, what you failed to mention was that with yer vertically
challenged bod, ya was able to run UNDER the crossbar on the hurdles
whilst never having to bend over or break stride.
JaKe
|
| 10.949 | Do me! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Wed Oct 06 1993 02:38 | 3 |
| reply
Ppfffffffffffffft!
|
| 10.950 | (8^) | PFSVAX::JACOB | Umgwana Cik Buudie | Wed Oct 06 1993 02:46 | 12 |
|
>>Ppfffffffffffffft!
Hey Kev,
Judging by the above, ya been drinking brews and munching nachos wif
halapenos tonite, right??
At least ya could excuse yerself.
JaKe
|
| 10.951 | Brattttt + Flatttt | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Wed Oct 06 1993 02:56 | 7 |
|
Howzz zatt?
I remain,
in abstenance..........
Kev
|
| 10.952 | Yer lyin' Kev. (Sorry.) | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Oct 06 1993 11:25 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.953 | Its just wont be the same | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Oct 06 1993 11:25 | 8 |
| The Fourpeat is now out of the question...
Michael Jordan is supposidly officialy announcing his retirement
today at a press conference...
BasketBall just wont be the same...
MairBrooks
|
| 10.954 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Wed Oct 06 1993 12:08 | 12 |
| re-1
Agreed M-air... Its a shame what happened to Micheal. 2 scums
change his life and basketball.
He will be missed, and Hiesers team might actually have a chance now.
Enjoy your life and may the media leave you alone.
I wonder if he will join the golf tour?
Tim
|
| 10.955 | | CAM3::WAY | Off the roll, Quick march! | Wed Oct 06 1993 12:31 | 8 |
| >
> I wonder if he will join the golf tour?
>
There's a lot of speculation over this on WFAN this morning.....
'Saw
|
| 10.956 | the NBA is gonna suffer | GENRAL::WADE | Pull! | Wed Oct 06 1993 12:53 | 8 |
|
Somewhere in this heah conference, there was a fella tellin'
us how he hated Jordan and couldn't wait to see him gone. I
told him he oughta appreciate Jordan (while he's still playing)
for being one of the all time greats. Maybe he'll appreciate
him now.....
Claybone
|
| 10.957 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Oct 06 1993 14:28 | 3 |
| .947 has me convinced. Anyone with arms long enough to do that much
back-patting had to have been able to dunk at one time or another, no
matter what his height.
|
| 10.958 | Kev is solidly nailed to the ground | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Oct 06 1993 14:53 | 8 |
| Kev has admitted to me in a private mail message that not only has he
never dunked a tennis ball but has never even touched the *rim* without
an assist from a step ladder.
Haw haw!
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.959 | | CNTROL::HUBER | File and Forget | Wed Oct 06 1993 14:53 | 16 |
|
Re .956
Though I didn't say I hate Jordan, I couldn't wait to see him gone,
and to be honest am glad that he is. That said, I wish him the best
of luck in whatever he decides to pursue - I have no doubt that given
his intelligence, showmanship, and talent he'll do well. In retiring
now, Jordan has given his legend even more galmour - he's going out
very close to the top of his game, with his team winning multiple
championships, rather than after a long, slow fall due to injuries
(Bird) or with a disease making the decision for him (Magic).
Still can't stand him, though, and am glad he's gone - though I
would not have wished the circumstances upon him.
Joe
|
| 10.961 | | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Oct 06 1993 15:21 | 10 |
| > Phoenix already had their opportunity to beat a Michael-led Bulls
> team and they couldn't get it done.
You're absolutely right. The butterflies in the first game and not
putting KJ on Jordan in the first 2 games sealed their fate. When they
made that defensive adjustment, they climbed back into the series.
I still think it would've been a better match this season with Phoenix
addressing some of their weaknesses. However, that was never
guaranteed and now it won't happen.
|
| 10.962 | What could have been we'll never know, the doors are open for others | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Oct 06 1993 16:48 | 16 |
| The Bulls made Huge Progress in improving there bench, with Kerr, Kucok
and Reed they would have been a much better team but I dont think those
3 added together are as much as Jordan. Jordan and the Bulls were on a
mission, jordan wanted to win 3 in a row because Bird and Magic never
made it that far, this was the last piece in his awsome puzzle. Had he
not won 3 in a row he would proberbly not be retiring... I dont think
any team with any adjustments were going to prevent MJ+ the bulls from
fulfilling there destiny (THREE-PEAT). I do feel a little sorry for
whoever wins the next NBA title, I know I for one and proberbly
millions of other NBA and Basketball fans will always wonder if MJ and
the Bulls could have kept the string alive.
Im sure the happist people in the world of basketball today are NY,
Cle, Pho and Sea Fans.. .This gives one of there teams a shot....:-(
MairB
|
| 10.963 | I wish he was still out there | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Oct 06 1993 16:57 | 3 |
| I'm not happy. If Phoenix was to win it, I wouldn't want any excuses.
You said this yourself. Fans will always wonder about the next
champion. You want to beat the best to be the best.
|
| 10.964 | I think well all miss him... | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Oct 06 1993 17:26 | 13 |
| Lets be honest Mike, if Phoenix Plays say NY or Cleveland
in the Finals and win's wouldnt in be anticlimatic compared
to them beating the Bulls (With Jordan). This is a huge letdown
to me but I think all fans in the NBA weather they want to admit
it or not will miss him and feel the loss... There's alot of
talant and great athletes and People that will be missed this
year in the nba, some retired and even worse some passed on.
This has been an incredible devestating off season in the NBA,
im glad for MJ and his family and I shouldnt be selfish about him
not playing but I will miss watching him on the court, as well as
some other lost talants...
MairBrooks
|
| 10.965 | Pacific Division may be the strongest ever | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | The Mouseketeers are after me! | Wed Oct 06 1993 17:32 | 17 |
| It is obvious that with Michael's retirement, the Western Conference
can now boast the top five or six teams in the NBA, and the NBA champ
almost certainly will come out of the West. Here's how I rank the
top ten NBA teams, as of today:
1) Phoenix
2) Portland
3) Seattle
4) Golden State
5) Houston
6) New York
7) Cleveland
8) San Antonio
9) Charlotte
10) Detroit
NAZZ
|
| 10.966 | I see the west all season.... | DECWET::METZGER | Owner of the scorpion petting zoo. | Wed Oct 06 1993 17:42 | 24 |
|
No way Nazzarooo...
NY, charlotte and cleveland are still better than the west.
I'd rank it like
1. NY
2. Cleveland
3. Charlotte, phoenix
4. Seattle
5. Golden state
6. Houston
7. Portland
8. San Antonio
9. Detroit
Phoenix will go as far as the refs let them. Cleveland and Charlotte will
battle NY tough for the east championship (the real NBA one).
Seattle, Golden state and Houston will gun for 2nd in the west with seattle
having the edge now that Sharonis is out. Portland will contine to sink...
Metz
|
| 10.967 | next champ will get the Rodney Dangerfield treatment | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Oct 06 1993 18:15 | 11 |
| MAir, if you re-read my last entry, you'll see we're in agreement. If
Phoenix were to win it this year, I want them to beat a Jordan-led
Bulls team.
Whoever wins it this year will not earn any respect, especially in
here. If the Knicks win it, TCM will be told to put an asterisk next
to it. Same for me if Phoenix wins it.
BTW - Sir Charles also stated again today that if Phoenix wins it this
year, he's also retiring. Phoenix could potentially be in the same
boat next season as the Bulls are in now.
|
| 10.968 | Warriors will dance on the Suns | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Wed Oct 06 1993 18:37 | 5 |
|
who give a dam what lady Charlie thinks or does??? If he has to win a title
before he retires he's going to earn the biggest pension in NBA history...
mike
|
| 10.969 | they have to sign Webber first to even have a chance | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Oct 06 1993 18:41 | 1 |
| > -< Warriors will dance on the Suns >-
|
| 10.970 | a sad day in bulls land... | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Oct 06 1993 18:42 | 23 |
| Maybe we can get Phoenix to Play a 7 game Pre Season series with
the bulls (and Michael Jordan) and the Season wont really matter
after that :-)
They were the 2 best teams last year (Ok dont any NY Fans clobber me
only 1 team from the east can go to the finals, sorry). And if you
look at the additions to those 2 teams (before MJ Retires) they both
made significant improvements. I think the odds of them having a
rematch would have been real good (Regardless of my anti phoenix
statements :-) they will more then likly represent the west, baring
injuries of course and theyll miss dumas).
How will this effect Phoenix's Motivation, I have a feeling they would
have been up and pumped bigtime for a Rematch, when (if) they get to
the finals I hope they can stay motivated againt whoever reprents the
east....
I hate to make this statement, but the Title look to be Phoenix's to
lose, I know the experts have NY as the Hands down favorite, but this
is a NY team that came close to losing to charlotte last year and may
not even make it to the finals...
MairB
|
| 10.971 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Oct 06 1993 18:45 | 6 |
| 10.972 | the manchild will put fannies in the building | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Wed Oct 06 1993 18:46 | 4 |
|
don't worry they'll sign Webber.....
mike
|
| 10.973 | | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Wed Oct 06 1993 20:14 | 17 |
| The experts aren't conceding anything to NY from what I've been
hearing. The interviews with national media personnel that I've heard
agree with you, MAir.
Mac, the Bills almost lost to the Oilers in round 1 too, but still made
it to the Super Bowl. Don't let the Lakers effort blind you to the
fact that L.A. was laden with playoff veterans and Phoenix was not
prepared for playoff basketball. I think the Suns lack of playoff
experience as a unit hurt them in crucial situations. Look at the
other championship teams that had a nucleus together for 5 years or
more. Phoenix didn't have that luxury either, and still did well.
Childs, I doubt Golden St. will give Webber the $50M for 8 years that
he wants. At least Larry Johnson has proven he's worth his $7M per
year. If they give him that much, the Warriors are desperate.
Mike
|
| 10.974 | still unsigned, now hospitalized | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Thu Oct 07 1993 02:44 | 6 |
| > -< the manchild will put fannies in the building >-
>don't worry they'll sign Webber.....
The Man-child is in a Detroit hospital having his appendix removed.
He intended to show up at camp on Friday, even without a contract, but
his plans have been changed.
|
| 10.975 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Thu Oct 07 1993 12:04 | 12 |
|
> The Man-child is in a Detroit hospital having his appendix removed.
> He intended to show up at camp on Friday, even without a contract, but
> his plans have been changed.
I heard he'll be ready to play in about 2 weeks. They got to pay him that.
If Bradley can get that kind of money, Webbaaaaah gots to get the same...
Stupidity aside he's proven!!!
oh do I dare dream Glenn Robinson in GREEN....
;^)
|
| 10.976 | fwiw - already will miss beginning of season | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Thu Oct 07 1993 15:27 | 1 |
| I heard he won't be able to play for a month on this morning's news.
|
| 10.977 | Right Conf, wrong school... | ROCK::MURPHY | River | Thu Oct 07 1993 15:46 | 5 |
| re -.2
Naah, he's a Boilerweenie. Give me Deon.
Murph
|
| 10.978 | Mosh till ya drop | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Thu Oct 07 1993 16:03 | 9 |
|
>> Naah, he's a Boilerweenie. Give me Deon.
Your colors are showin' Murph....take off the glass and answer the
question.......
;^)
|
| 10.979 | Knicks are the favorite now | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Thu Oct 07 1993 16:34 | 4 |
| Before Jordan's announcement, the Bulls were Los Wages(tm) favorite to
win the title at 9:5 odds. Phoenix and New York were both 3:1. After
the announcement, New York is now the favorite. Bulls are at something
like 12:1 now.
|
| 10.980 | Oskee Wow wow | ROCK::MURPHY | River | Thu Oct 07 1993 18:01 | 10 |
| Glenn is tough - but in crunch time - Deon got the winner in 2OT last
year. We'll see... I'm still trying to dig up my official Lou Henson "At
Illinois we wait 'til Basketball season" shirt from the final daze of
Mike White. At least another notable Orange and Blue clad football team
will be attending a Bowl this year - and I don't mean the Bowls between
Dec 17 and Jan 2...
Murph (feeling a little frisky today - have a Mosh Pit appointment
tomorrow, Childs. So why not woof a little...)
|
| 10.981 | Penny may have signed | HBAHBA::HAAS | Over the wall | Thu Oct 07 1993 19:23 | 6 |
| CNN is reporting that Anfernee Hardaway has signed a 12 year $65 million
deal with Orlando.
Orlando is neither confirming nor denying it.
TTom
|
| 10.982 | Clips sign DeHere | HBAHBA::HAAS | Over the wall | Thu Oct 07 1993 19:43 | 5 |
| The Clippers signed their number 1, Terry DeHere.
No terms were announced.
TTom
|
| 10.983 | barely missed last time | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Thu Oct 07 1993 19:48 | 1 |
| Orlando should make the playoffs this year.
|
| 10.984 | but what about the cap? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Over the wall | Thu Oct 07 1993 19:51 | 10 |
| Orlando should have made the playoffs. They pulled a great choke job and
lost to Philly down the stretch.
The question for the Magic is how, if'n this contract is true as
reported, are they gonna get under the cap. I'm surprised that they
haven't moved Skiles. Apparently there's little or no interest in Dennis
Scott because of his salary and his tendency to miss a lot of games due
to injury.
TTom
|
| 10.985 | helps both teams | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Thu Oct 07 1993 19:54 | 1 |
| I still say they offer Skiles to the Spurs for Carr.
|
| 10.986 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Fri Oct 08 1993 12:23 | 8 |
| The contract still has to be approved. His salary will be 1.2 mil to fit the
cap but a big loan up front is supposed to be where the cash is at. Also
it's said there are attaiable goals that he could acheive and declare for
free agency...
my gut feeling is that we're going to see the end of the cap.....
mike
|
| 10.987 | You ain't got the right one baaybee... | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | GoPats. GoToStLouis,Baltimore... | Fri Oct 08 1993 12:37 | 5 |
| ESPN is reporting that Shack will not be named to the Olympic Dream
Team because of his exclusive contract with Pepsi. Guess that means
Michael Jackson is out too.
/Don
|
| 10.988 | The media can and will destroy, if provoked... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Oct 08 1993 12:43 | 14 |
|
> ESPN is reporting that Shack will not be named to the Olympic Dream
> Team because of his exclusive contract with Pepsi.
Lemme guess: Coca-Cola is the official soft drink of the 1996 Olympics
(who else, being in Atlanta?). I'm telling you, the increasingly
commercialized NBA better be careful, because it's not inconceivable
that it could take a big fall as the fiascos mount almost daily. One
need only look to MLB where in large part money tarnished the sport's
interest with TV viewers, and MLB's commercial interests did not
approach 10% of the NBA's...
glenn
|
| 10.989 | money grubbin | HBAHBA::HAAS | Over the wall | Fri Oct 08 1993 14:31 | 10 |
| This is a rehash of the same dispute that Jordan had in 92. Shaq has a
contact that precludes his image being used without permission, he won't
sign away that permission and now we have one less talent on the team.
Pepsi is sounding conciliatory when in fact they're the one pushing it.
The Coca-Cola part is about right. What the rub seems to be is that one
of the sponsors of USA Basketball is McDonald's who exclusively serve
Coke.
TTom
|
| 10.990 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | GoPats. GoToStLouis,Baltimore... | Fri Oct 08 1993 14:35 | 5 |
| Hey maybe instead of the Olympics we should have The Soda Pop
Games, where the athletes under contract to Coca-Cola can play the
athletes under contract to Pepsi?
/Don
|
| 10.991 | Jake may get a real team to root for | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Fri Oct 08 1993 16:39 | 19 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Group to seek Pittsburgh pro basketball team
PITTSBURGH, Pa. (UPI) -- A group of investors say it is ready to ask
the National Basketball Association to grant an expansion franchise to
Pittsburgh.
The group seeking the franchise, Pittsburgh Pro Sports Inc., is led
by former Pittsburgh attorney Mike Levine, and includes several current
and former players with the Pittsburgh Steelers, the city's professional
football team.
Levine said the group will make its bid to NBA Commissioner David
Stern on Oct. 15. He said the team would be publicly owned, similar to
the Boston Celtics and the Green Bay Packers.
The NBA currently has 27 teams, but the league recently gave
preliminary approval for a franchise in Toronto which would begin play
in the 1995-96 season.
Levine noted that Pittsburgh is the only American city that has both
professional football and baseball teams, but no pro basketball team.
|
| 10.992 | ZO dont no Pepsi | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Oct 08 1993 18:46 | 1 |
| I think ZO should be a Dream Teamer over Shaq....
|
| 10.993 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Fri Oct 08 1993 19:59 | 3 |
| Didn't some Japanese company buy Pepsi or at least the majority?
Tim
|
| 10.994 | wow, they must be thirsty! | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Fri Oct 08 1993 20:22 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.995 | this should get a nice reaction ;-) | 16421::HEISER | AWANA | Fri Oct 08 1993 20:28 | 4 |
| Another Los Wages(tm) service posted both Phoenix and NY at 5:2
yesterday. Given the strength of the West and the Eastern's Little
Sisters of the Poor, that's says the Suns are the best team in the NBA
on paper.
|
| 10.996 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Fri Oct 08 1993 21:08 | 7 |
| So do alot of designs, but once manufacturing starts, the design is
thrown out the door (so to speak) because reality sets in and things
don't work the way there supposed to.
HtH,
Tim
|
| 10.997 | just say no... | MKFSA::LONG | DEC, get outa VN, NOW! | Sat Oct 09 1993 03:09 | 20 |
| re basketball in the 'burgh:
I really can't see that happening. Growing up in the 'burgh in the
late 60's and early 70's, I was able to attend several games of the
"semi-pro" basketball team at the Civic Arena. The only one I remember
seeing was Connie Hawkins. I was only one of about 500 people in the
Arena for most games. It just doesn't, or at least didn't, draw there.
That's not to say that people in the land of "Black and Gold" don't
appreciate the sport. Hell, my high school's games would sell out some
pretty hugh facilities for EVERY game. Tickets for the WPIAL, local
high school sports association, playoffs at the Civic Arena and at the
Pitt Field House were sold out weeks in advance.
My point is that when I lived there, and I think it's still true today,
the game of basketball is only appreciated at the high school level.
"Not that there's anything wrong with that."
billl
|
| 10.999 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Oct 11 1993 16:13 | 4 |
| 10.1000 | | USCTR1::KING | Look, I can hear what you are thinking..... | Mon Oct 11 1993 18:31 | 3 |
| Hey some one has to grab .1000
REK
|
| 10.1001 | | DELNI::CRITZ | Scott Critz, LKG2/1, Pole V3 | Wed Oct 13 1993 13:12 | 11 |
| I hesitate to add this, but I have to.
Last night, on the 10 PM news on Channel 56 in Boston, the sports
announcer was talking about Charles Barkley and his bad back. He
meant to say, "Barkley has a bulging disk." He said
"Barkley has a bulging dick, <pause> disk."
When the camera was on him, he said, "That bulging disk."
Scott
|
| 10.1002 | Freudian slip? | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Oct 13 1993 13:44 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1003 | | DELNI::CRITZ | Scott Critz, LKG2/1, Pole V3 | Wed Oct 13 1993 14:16 | 5 |
| Well, everyone, including the folks on TV, were amused at
the slip. The sports announced was smiling, but seemed to
take it in stride.
Scott
|
| 10.1004 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Oct 13 1993 16:25 | 4 |
| but you jus' know that some bible thumpin' do gooder will be callin'
for the immediate dismissal of said announcer.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1005 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Oct 13 1993 16:41 | 1 |
| Ya, right, TCM.
|
| 10.1006 | try to keep up | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Oct 13 1993 20:08 | 1 |
| TCM, they're called "fundies" now.
|
| 10.1007 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Oct 13 1993 20:33 | 3 |
| oh sorry for getting the term wrong.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1008 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Oct 13 1993 20:44 | 1 |
| That's ok, just trying to keep everyone up to date ;-)
|
| 10.1009 | the new NBA.C | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Oct 13 1993 20:45 | 1263 |
| From: len@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (leonard.g.carr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: NBA.C 1993-1994 NBA Schedule Program
Attached below is this year's edition of the venerable "nba.c" NBA schedule
program. This year's program includes most (if not all) of the features that
people have added to it in past years.
TV coverage data is included for NBC, TNT, and WGN. I sent out a couple
requests for information from superstations such as TBS but only received
usefull data for WGN. You wouldn't believe how may responses I got back
with thinks like..."You should try to get it from magazines...they probably
have the schedules." (these tended to receive silent sarcastic remarks
about the lineage). Also, there seem to be a lot of people who think that
SportsChannel is a superstation. While it may be true that SportsChannel
is availble throughout the country, the programming tends to be regional in
nature. It is not too late...if anybody has NATIONAL superstation schedules
(including TBS) I can add it to the program and reissue it.
===============================================================================
/ ___/ \ / || Len Carr, (908) 615-6072, len@mt747.att.com
/ __/ / || AT&T CellRelay Systems, Holmdel Corporate Plaza
____/ ____/ __/ __/ || 2137 Highway 35 North, Holmdel, NJ 07733
===============================================================================
----------------------------------- cut here -----------------------------------
/******************************************************************************
*
* This program prints out the NBA schedule for any day in the 1993-1994
* NBA regular season. The program has evolved over the years (see the
* acknowledgements section below) to become a (somewhat) flexible program.
*
* By default, the current day's schedule is printed. One can also
* specify one or more dates on the command line and get the schedule for
* that/those date(s). Any national TV coverage (TNT and NBC) along with
* the game tip-off time is also listed.
*
*
* USAGE
*
* nba [-s] [-s team] [team] [-m team1 team2] [mm/dd... | all | end]
*
* Examples:
* nba <- today's games
* nba 12/25 1/1 <- games on Christmas and New Years
* nba -s <- summary for the next week
* nba -s 11/5 <- summary for the first week of season
* nba -s celtics <- Boston summary for the next week
* nba -m chicago lakers end <- Chicago/LA games for the rest of season
* nba Magic all <- Orlando's full season schedule
*
* nba -help (or -h or -?) <- print help message.
*
* Team names can be either the team nickname (Knicks) or the city.
* City names with spaces can either be put in quotes ("New York")
* or entered as a single word without spaces (NewYork)
*
*
* COMPILING
*
* Compilinge should be easy... "cc -o nba nba.c"
*
* Before compiling the program there are a couple things to check...
*
* 1) The tip-off times are normalized in the matrix to the Eastern time zone.
* To change the time to show either Central, Mountain, or Pacific time zone
* just change the "TZ_FIX" #define in the code before compiling (other time
* zones are not supported...sorry).
*
* 2) The team names can be printed out as either a City (Boston) or as the
* team's nickname (Celtics). Check the "TEAMNAME" #define in the code.
*
* (Note: when entering a team name to get specific team schedules you can
* use either the city name or the nickname regardless of the TEAMNAME
* #define).
*
* 3) The program is set up to include national TV coverage on NBC and TNT
* as well as "superstations". Unfortunately, not everybody gets TNT
* and/or superstations (and I guess there are some who don't get NBC
* either). To take this into account you can disable the display of
* individual networks. To do this go down to the "tv_coverage[]"
* structure and edit the "0" and "1" entries in the first column of
* each line. A "0" entry indicates that you wish to have that TV
* coverage printed, a "1" means don't bother.
*
* (Note: I sent out a couple requests for "superstation" information
* but only received (useful) responses about WGN out of Chicago).
*
*
* Brought to you again this year by:
*
* =============================================================================
* / ___/ \ / || Len Carr, (908) 615-6072, len@mt747.att.com
* / __/ / || AT&T CellRelay Systems, Holmdel Corporate Plaza
* ____/ ____/ __/ __/ || 2137 Highway 35 North, Holmdel, NJ 07733
* =============================================================================
*
* ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
* I make no claims that every piece of code include here is my own...
* unfortunately I did not keep track of exactly what enhancements
* specific people have added over the four (or five) years that I've
* been doing this program. The following people have contributed
* various enhancements to my original source for the program. Without
* their efforts, the program would not be anywhere near as flexable
* (or popular) as it has turned out to be...
*
* Toshio Hori (toshi@nml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp)
* Dan Kinney (dkinney@bothell.sgi.com)
* Dennis P. Joyce (dpj4303@ritvax.rit.edu)
* King-Ip Lin (kilin@wam.umd.edu)
* Mike Northam (mbn@greyskul.hf.intel.com)
*
******************************************************************************/
#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <ctype.h>
#include <time.h>
/****************************************************************************
* All times in the schedule matrix are based on the Eastern time zone.
* To change to one of the other three below, comment out the Eastern
* entry and un-comment the desired one.
****************************************************************************/
#define TZ_FIX 0 /* Eastern */
/* #define TZ_FIX 2 /* Central */
/* #define TZ_FIX 4 /* Mountain */
/* #define TZ_FIX 6 /* Pacific */
/****************************************************************************
* Structure to contain information about team names. The first entry is
* used for "long form" schedules. The second entry is used for summary
* displays. The third entry is used for a more "friendly" long form of
* the schedule. If the "TEAMNAME" define is set to "1" then the team
* names will be used instead of the city.
****************************************************************************/
/* #define TEAMNAME 0 /* Use team city (Boston) instead of name (Celtics) */
#define TEAMNAME 1 /* Use team name (Celtics) instead of city (Boston) */
struct {
char *longname;
char *summary;
char *teamname;
} teams[] = {
{"Atlanta", "Atl", "Hawks"},
{"Boston", "Bos", "Celtics"},
{"Charlotte", "Cha", "Hornets"},
{"Chicago", "Chi", "Bulls"},
{"Cleveland", "Cle", "Cavaliers"},
{"Dallas", "Dal", "Mavericks"},
{"Denver", "Den", "Nuggets"},
{"Detroit", "Det", "Pistons"},
{"Golden State", "GS", "Warriors"},
{"Houston", "Hou", "Rockets"},
{"Indiana", "Ind", "Pacers"},
{"LA Clippers", "LAC", "Clippers"},
{"LA Lakers", "LAL", "Lakers"},
{"Miami", "Mia", "Heat"},
{"Milwaukee", "Mil", "Bucks"},
{"Minnesota", "Min", "Timberwolves"},
{"New Jersey", "NJ", "Nets"},
{"New York", "NY", "Knicks"},
{"Orlando", "Orl", "Magic"},
{"Philadelphia", "Phi", "76ers"},
{"Phoenix", "Pho", "Suns"},
{"Portland", "Por", "Trailblazers"},
{"Sacramento", "Sac", "Kings"},
{"San Antonio", "SA", "Spurs"},
{"Seattle", "Sea", "Supersonics"},
{"Utah", "Uta", "Jazz"},
{"Washington", "Was", "Bullets"},
{"All Star Break", "ASB", "All Star Break"},
{"All Star Game", "ASG", "All Star Game"},
{"", "", ""}
};
/****************************************************************************
* Structure to contain information about "home" games played at an
* alternate game site. The first entry is used for "long form"
* schedules while the second entry is used for summary displays.
****************************************************************************/
#define NUM_ALT_SITES 2
struct {
char *alt_site;
char *summary;
} alternate_site[] = {
{"(in Baltimore)", "b = Game played in Baltimore"},
{"(in Hartford)", "h = Game played in Hartford"},
{"", ""}
};
/****************************************************************************
* Fairly static set of game start times...the actual times displayed in
* the "long form" schedules use these entries modulated by "TZ_FIX".
****************************************************************************/
char *game_time[] = {
"(9:00 am)", "(9:30 am)", "(10:00 am)", "(10:30 am)",
"(11:00 am)", "(11:30 am)", "(12:00 Noon)", "(12:30 pm)",
"(1:00 pm)", "(1:30 pm)", "(2:00 pm)", "(2:30 pm)",
"(3:00 pm)", "(3:30 pm)", "(4:00 pm)", "(4:30 pm)",
"(5:00 pm)", "(5:30 pm)", "(6:00 pm)", "(6:30 pm)",
"(7:00 pm)", "(7:30 pm)", "(8:00 pm)", "(8:30 pm)",
"(9:00 pm)", "(9:30 pm)", "(10:00 pm)", "(10:30 pm)", ""
};
/****************************************************************************
* TV coverage structure. This structure is set up to provide information
* about national TV coverage. The structure can "easily" be expanded to
* contain up to 10 TV stations.
*
* The first entry is a boolean indication of whether or not to print this
* particular station (hey, if I'm a poor schmuck in a whole in the wall town
* like Pittsfield, NH then I may not want to print out stuff off of TNT! To
* change the value enter a "0" to print TV information for that network and
* enter "1" to ignore that network's TV coverage.
*
* The second entry is used for "long form" schedules while the third
* entry is used for the summary display.
****************************************************************************/
#define NUM_TV 5
struct {
int printit;
char *network;
char *summary;
} tv_coverage[] = {
/* 0 */ {0, "(TNT)", "T = Game broadcast on TNT"},
/* 1 */ {0, "(TNT*)", "t = Game may be broadcast on TNT"},
/* 2 */ {0, "(NBC)", "N = Game broadcast on NBC"},
/* 3 */ {0, "(NBC*)", "n = Game may be broadcast on NBC"},
/* 4 */ {1, "(WGN)", "G = Game broadcast on WGN"},
/* 5 */ {1, "", ""} /* Always leave this one blank */
};
/****************************************************************************
* Psuedo-static day-of-the-week/day-of-the-year type stuff. This is mostly
* used to determine where to find dates like 2/17 in the schedule matrix
* described later.
****************************************************************************/
int days[] = {
31, 28, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31, 31, 30, 31, 30, 31
/* jan feb mar apr may jun jul aug sep oct nov dec */
};
struct {
char *longform;
char *summary;
} weekday[] = {
"Friday", "FR",
"Saturday", "SA",
"Sunday", "SU",
"Monday", "MO",
"Tuesday", "TU",
"Wednesday", "WE",
"Thursday", "TH"
};
/******************************************************************************
* Schedule matrix...each character string represents one day in the life of
* the NBA for the 1993-1994 season. There are 27 different teams in the NBA
* (plus entries for the All Star break) represented by the characters "a-z",
* "{", "|", and "} and correspond to the "nba_teams" array above.
*
* In general the matrix can be viewed as visitor/home/time triplet where the
* first entry is the visiting team, the second is the home team, and the
* third is the tip-off time. This 3 character set is modified slightly in
* order to store any TV coverage and "alternate home site" information.
*
* If there is a digit between the visitor and the home team then we look in
* the "alternate_site" array for the actual location that the game is being
* played.
*
* If there is a digit after the tip-off time then the "tv_coverage" array is
* checked to see whether NBC, TNT or a superstation are broadcasting the game.
******************************************************************************/
char *nba_schedule[] = {
/* 11/5 (001) */ "kaTrbTdcU0oeTphUqjVvlZumZ0snU{tTgwZixVfzW",
/* 11/6 (002) */ "ndV4ifVhkTcoWzpUtsTmyYb{T",
/* 11/7 (003) */ "reSlgWwuWjvZqxV",
/* 11/8 (004) */ "obTadV4yzW",
/* 11/9 (005) */ "ceTqfV{hTjiZulZvmZtrTksTpxVgyY",
/* 11/10 (006) */ "doVbtU0xuWmwZazWr{T",
/* 11/11 (007) */ "scTpjVhlZonTkqTeyY",
/* 11/12 (008) */ "cbTeiZrkU0gmZfpUnsTavZxwZ0hzWt{T",
/* 11/13 (009) */ "bdV4zfVigWujVxlZtqTorTayY",
/* 11/14 (010) */ "emZwqShvU",
/* 11/15 (011) */ "jtT",
/* 11/16 (012) */ "waTrfVxgWuiZckTlmZpoVjqTzsTevZdyU0",
/* 11/17 (013) */ "qbTwcTshTznTatTrxVo{T",
/* 11/18 (014) */ "egWmiZjkTflZdvZ4",
/* 11/19 (015) */ "sbT{cU0xhUdmZanTwpUztTvuWfyY",
/* 11/20 (016) */ "caTyiZljVbkTxoWgpUsqTzrVeuWn0{T",
/* 11/21 (017) */ "thSmqSfvZdwW",
/* 11/22 (018) */ "k1bTnrTlxV",
/* 11/23 (019) */ "maTlfVdjVisU0gvZc{T",
/* 11/24 (020) */ "mcT{eTbhTtkTinTaoVqpUguWywZdxV4jzW",
/* 11/25 (021) */ "",
/* 11/26 (022) */ "{aTnbTocTdfV4vgWmkTypUitTjwZqzW",
/* 11/27 (023) */ "taTyeTqgWjlZcnTboWmpUhrGzuWfxVs{T",
/* 11/28 (024) */ "ihSwvZ",
/* 11/29 (025) */ "qlZkwZoxV",
/* 11/30 (026) */ "baTudU0heTfiZojVvnTytTgzW",
/* 12/1 (027) */ "{bTxcTklZfmZeqTvsTpwZ",
/* 12/2 (028) */ "uhTpiZjrTkzUy{T",
/* 12/3 (029) */ "jaTvbTofVcgZ0dnTuqTxsU0",
/* 12/4 (030) */ "seTkiZmlZwrGxtTpyYczWv{T",
/* 12/5 (031) */ "jeSfgWpmZuoV",
/* 12/6 (032) */ "{yYrzW",
/* 12/7 (033) */ "ldVveTnfVgiZcjVwkTrmZbqU0hsT",
/* 12/8 (034) */ "wbTahTloVvpUdtTyxV{zW",
/* 12/9 (035) */ "xaTecTyfVriZnjVskT{uW",
/* 12/10 (036) */ "zgWohU0lpUdqTbsTwtTmvZ",
/* 12/11 (037) */ "qcTedV4ufVziZyjVbnTtoWhpUkrTgxVa0{T",
/* 12/12 (038) */ "imLsvUlwZ",
/* 12/13 (039) */ "tbTnqTouWxzW",
/* 12/14 (040) */ "pcTaeTvfU0mhT{kTjnTgrTsyY",
/* 12/15 (041) */ "dbT4slZzpUgtTiuWowZvxV",
/* 12/16 (042) */ "kaTxfVenTcqTmrTh{T",
/* 12/17 (043) */ "zbTgcTrdU0plZmtTsuZ0iwZoyY",
/* 12/18 (044) */ "gaTxdVehTfjVqkTtnTluWpvZiyYz{T",
/* 12/19 (045) */ "meSovZswW",
/* 12/20 (046) */ "cdV4olZ{pUfrThtTkuW",
/* 12/21 (047) */ "zeTugWchTviW0rqTmsTjxVkyY",
/* 12/22 (048) */ "abTpdV{lZfoVntT",
/* 12/23 (049) */ "bcToeTdhT4liZgjVmnTfpUarTqsTkvZ{wZzxVuyY",
/* 12/24 (050) */ "",
/* 12/25 (051) */ "sdV2juJ2",
/* 12/26 (052) */ "keGpgWjmZwnTaqQivUbxV",
/* 12/27 (053) */ "hcTtlZ{oVwsTbuWpzW",
/* 12/28 (054) */ "haTceTgfVtiZxnTqrTjyY",
/* 12/29 (055) */ "qdVymZasTlvZbzWw{T",
/* 12/30 (056) */ "dcT4igWwhTxkTblZsnTeoVjpU{rTtuW",
/* 12/31 (057) */ "",
/* 1/1 (058) */ "",
/* 1/2 (059) */ "qbStgWnhTcrQzvUfwWmxV",
/* 1/3 (060) */ "fzW",
/* 1/4 (061) */ "caThdVmgWwiZvjVekTqnTsrTyuW0txV",
/* 1/5 (062) */ "beTjfVylZgpUoqTdsU0mwZuzWk{T",
/* 1/6 (063) */ "vcTxiZroV",
/* 1/7 (064) */ "vaTebTtfVxgWlmZupU0wyYnzWd{T",
/* 1/8 (065) */ "eaTrcTfdVwgWkhTtjVnlZqoVbpU{sTzyY",
/* 1/9 (066) */ "xmZvrQiuU0",
/* 1/10 (067) */ "jsU0btT",
/* 1/11 (068) */ "ghTimZkoV{qTlrTcuWyvZnwZpxV",
/* 1/12 (069) */ "daT4jbTpfVniZgkTesTltT",
/* 1/13 (070) */ "qeTrhTzoVcwZuxVj{T",
/* 1/14 (071) */ "faTlbU0zdVyiZcmZspUgqTktTnvZ",
/* 1/15 (072) */ "jdV4teTxfVakTsoWhrGuwZnyYl{T",
/* 1/16 (073) */ "gbSzqQcvU",
/* 1/17 (074) */ "oaLtdLseQzhTuiU0wmNprGx{G",
/* 1/18 (075) */ "vgWbjVlnThoVfuWmyY",
/* 1/19 (076) */ "iaTtcT{dVbfVnkTpqTxrTlsTywZezW",
/* 1/20 (077) */ "jgWumZxpU",
/* 1/21 (078) */ "qaTibTkdVyfVelZhnTcoWrsU0mvZwzW",
/* 1/22 (079) */ "ocTygWzjVdkTapUiqTstTvuWewZfxVh0{T",
/* 1/23 (080) */ "{nTtrQ",
/* 1/24 (081) */ "fbTdhT4okTyzW",
/* 1/25 (082) */ "ejVcnTaoVurU0{sTqvZwxVlyY",
/* 1/26 (083) */ "uaTnbTscThiZkmZzpUftT",
/* 1/27 (084) */ "deT4kgWwjVrlZqyYf{T",
/* 1/28 (085) */ "acTodVhmZnsTutTpvZizU0",
/* 1/29 (086) */ "neTwfVhgWqiZkjVplZotTaxVryYs{T",
/* 1/30 (087) */ "ubF2rvZ",
/* 1/31 (088) */ "afVehU0ilZ",
/* 2/1 (089) */ "dgW4{kTnoVyqTbrTluWvwZmxVjzW",
/* 2/2 (090) */ "saTybTkcTohTgiZfpUetTr{T",
/* 2/3 (091) */ "xeTmjVuvZdzW",
/* 2/4 (092) */ "raU0xbTncTmfVyhUdiZpkTosT{tTgwZ",
/* 2/5 (093) */ "aeTqhTckTwlZtnTyoWvzW",
/* 2/6 (094) */ "fgWpjQzmZxqQsrG2duL2i{G",
/* 2/7 (095) */ "haTikTrnU0ctT",
/* 2/8 (096) */ "qeTpfVzgWdlZumZjoVwvZ{xV",
/* 2/9 (097) */ "hbTicU0knTeqTasTrtTpuWlwZvyYmzW",
/* 2/10 (098) */ "naT{fVjhTdoV4irTgxV",
/* 2/11 (099) */ "|pY0",
/* 2/12 (100) */ "|pS0",
/* 2/13 (101) */ "}pR2",
/* 2/14 (102) */ "",
/* 2/15 (103) */ "geTvfV{hTwiZajVlmZopUrqTbsTkxVtyY",
/* 2/16 (104) */ "jcTndV4zlZgoVvuWtwZ",
/* 2/17 (105) */ "q1bTreTkfVaiZynThxVp{T",
/* 2/18 (106) */ "ocTgdV4alZepUysU0muWtvZzwZq0{T",
/* 2/19 (107) */ "hfVbiZujVnxVlzW",
/* 2/20 (108) */ "ecMagWykLtmZsoL{qTdrG2bvZ",
/* 2/21 (109) */ "cdLfhT{nTxpKwuWtzW",
/* 2/22 (110) */ "peTgjVfkTioVnqTyrTlvZbwZ",
/* 2/23 (111) */ "yaTidV4bgWvlZksTqtTxzWe{T",
/* 2/24 (112) */ "fcTrjU0upUmwZ",
/* 2/25 (113) */ "oaTieTrgWhkTwlZxmZqsTntTbyYuzWd{T4",
/* 2/26 (114) */ "kdV4feTnhTzjV{oWatTxvZ",
/* 2/27 (115) */ "ylWbmZipKfqQcsF2ruP2gvZ",
/* 2/28 (116) */ "edU0jzW",
/* 3/1 (117) */ "paTliZsjVvkTnoVhqT{tTrwZcyY",
/* 3/2 (118) */ "ebTmdV4vhTclZnpUzxV",
/* 3/3 (119) */ "teTsfVuiW0qrTa{T",
/* 3/4 (120) */ "mbU0vdVsgWqkTpuWlxV",
/* 3/5 (121) */ "kaTzfVciZljVtnThoWwyYm{T",
/* 3/6 (122) */ "deG2pgWtqQzuWywWsxL2",
/* 3/7 (123) */ "rhTbnTmoVivZ",
/* 3/8 (124) */ "ucTadVweTlfVgsTjxViyYpzW",
/* 3/9 (125) */ "raTqhTgnTkoVwpUstTzvZu{T",
/* 3/10 (126) */ "viZyjU0fmZ",
/* 3/11 (127) */ "daT4rbTehUflZunTwoWcpUkqTtsTyxVg{T",
/* 3/12 (128) */ "wdVahTxjVokTcqTerV",
/* 3/13 (129) */ "nbSjfUilWmpKusE2vyYt{G",
/* 3/14 (130) */ "bcTxgWhwZmzW0",
/* 3/15 (131) */ "sdU0ueT{iZvjVzlZonTtpUkrThyY",
/* 3/16 (132) */ "dbT4acTukT{mZfsTqwZvxV",
/* 3/17 (133) */ "ijVglZfnTypUorT",
/* 3/18 (134) */ "zcTydV4wgWakTqmZesTptThuW{vZ",
/* 3/19 (135) */ "ifVhjVzkTenTbrGquWwxV",
/* 3/20 (136) */ "abE3ycE3{gWvlWsmLtoJdpK",
/* 3/21 (137) */ "zaT{jVnmZ",
/* 3/22 (138) */ "tcTkeTogWsiZjpUlqTdrU0nuWvwZxyY",
/* 3/23 (139) */ "caTmfVlhTekTdtTszW",
/* 3/24 (140) */ "ngWoiZmjVrpUxwZuyYb{T",
/* 3/25 (141) */ "laTchUrkTdqTetTfuWwvZozW",
/* 3/26 (142) */ "naTlcTkdV4fgWxiZzjVpyYq{T",
/* 3/27 (143) */ "t1bTheSomZrsE2juU0xvZ",
/* 3/28 (144) */ "lkTgyY",
/* 3/29 (145) */ "qaTtdVleTxfVpmZhnTboVcrU0{sTyvZjwZizW",
/* 3/30 (146) */ "kbTjiZnqT",
/* 3/31 (147) */ "ulZvoVawZexU0myY",
/* 4/1 (148) */ "{bThdU0cfVpiZjmZknTsqTvtTauW",
/* 4/2 (149) */ "efVskTnrTpwZcxViyYgzWo{T",
/* 4/3 (150) */ "dhH2jlQamZvqSbtSguW",
/* 4/4 (151) */ "",
/* 4/5 (152) */ "{dVceTlgWhkTrnTbqTosTuvZfwZixVzyY",
/* 4/6 (153) */ "baTkcTwmZlpUotTxuWn{T",
/* 4/7 (154) */ "ygWijU0aqTerTfzW",
/* 4/8 (155) */ "pbTqcTdkTgmZhsTrtTuwZfyYe{T",
/* 4/9 (156) */ "{aTodV4xjL3snTipUctTmvZlzL3",
/* 4/10 (157) */ "jgWbhG3rqG3uyL2",
/* 4/11 (158) */ "ncTfiZbkTsrU0lwZpxV",
/* 4/12 (159) */ "qdVoeTugWthTpjVylZimZfvZwzW",
/* 4/13 (160) */ "eaThbTdnT4qoVktTmuWgxV",
/* 4/14 (161) */ "viZwjVcsU0lyYxzWr{T",
/* 4/15 (162) */ "sbTdcU0neTgfVvmZaoWkpUhqT{rT",
/* 4/16 (163) */ "taTwfVziZmlZeoWuxL3jyL3",
/* 4/17 (164) */ "rcK2khFqnMgpKdsP2jvZb{F",
/* 4/18 (165) */ "adV4ufVilZ",
/* 4/19 (166) */ "obTmgWshTpnTarTqtTyuWzwZjxU0k{T",
/* 4/20 (167) */ "{cTekTglZymZhoVpsT",
/* 4/21 (168) */ "cbTwiZfjVanTtrTvzW",
/* 4/22 (169) */ "bdV1{eT1jfV1zgW1tkT1roW1vpU1luW1xyY1",
/* 4/23 (170) */ "saThcL3miL3nkToqTwuW",
/* 4/24 (171) */ "rdG2beL3pfUgjL3xlL3zmL3qsThtGyvL3iwWc{G"
};
/****************************************************************************
* Some boring globals...it seems to be a pretty convient place to put 'em.
****************************************************************************/
int TODAYSmonth;
int TODAYSday;
int playing = -1;
int summary_form = 0;
/****************************************************************************
* MAIN
*
* Main program loop. All arguements are parsed and appropriate routines
* are called.
****************************************************************************/
main(argc,argv)
int argc;
char *argv[];
{
extern int is_team();
extern int get_nba_day();
extern void do_long_sched();
extern void do_all();
extern void do_summary_sched();
extern void print_usage();
struct tm *time_tm;
register int i,j;
int arg_count;
int month;
int day;
int nba_day;
int team;
int newteam;
long current_date;
char *ptr;
int teamtwo = -1;
current_date = time((long *)NULL);
time_tm = localtime(¤t_date);
TODAYSmonth = time_tm->tm_mon+1;
TODAYSday = time_tm->tm_mday,0;
arg_count = 1;
team = -1;
if (argc > arg_count) {
/*
* Look for the help option...if specified, it must be the
* first option.
*/
if ((strcmp(argv[arg_count], "-help") == 0) ||
(strcmp(argv[arg_count], "-h") == 0) ||
(strcmp(argv[arg_count], "-?") == 0))
{
print_usage(argv[0]);
exit(0);
}
/*
* Check for a request for summary or a specific team.
*/
if (strcmp(argv[arg_count], "-s") == 0)
{
summary_form = 1;
if (arg_count+1 != argc)
{
arg_count++;
if (is_team(argv[arg_count], &newteam))
{
team = newteam;
arg_count++;
}
}
else
{
arg_count++;
}
}
/*
* Look for a specific match up between two teams.
*/
else
if (strcmp(argv[arg_count], "-m") == 0)
{
playing=1;
arg_count++;
if (is_team(argv[arg_count], &newteam))
{
team = newteam;
arg_count++;
if (is_team(argv[arg_count], &newteam))
{
teamtwo = newteam;
arg_count++;
}
else
{
fprintf(stdout,"\n%s: Is not a NBA team\n",argv[arg_count]);
exit(0);
}
}
else
{
fprintf(stdout,"\n%s: Is not a NBA team\n",argv[arg_count]);
exit(0);
}
do_all(team,teamtwo,"end");
}
/*
* Check to see if one specific team is requested.
*/
else
if (is_team(argv[arg_count], &newteam))
{
team = newteam;
arg_count++;
}
}
/*
* Check for a requested date on the command line.
*/
if (argc == arg_count)
{
/*
* No date/options requested...give today's schedule.
*/
nba_day = get_nba_day(TODAYSmonth,TODAYSday,1);
if (nba_day < 0)
exit(1);
if (summary_form == 1) /* Do SUMMARY format */
do_summary_sched(TODAYSmonth,TODAYSday,nba_day,team);
else /* Do LONG format */
do_long_sched(TODAYSmonth,TODAYSday,nba_day,team);
exit(0);
}
/*
* Loop through all the rest of the options...they should all
* be date requests.
*/
for (;arg_count<argc;arg_count++)
{
/*
* Validate the date format.
*/
j = strlen(argv[arg_count]);
ptr = strchr(argv[arg_count],'/');
/*
* See if the user has requested a special date format...
* "all" will print the entire schedule..."end" will
* print from today to the end of the season.
*/
if (strcmp(argv[arg_count], "all") == 0)
{
do_all(team,teamtwo,"all");
}
else
if (strcmp(argv[arg_count], "end") == 0)
{
do_all(team,teamtwo,"end");
}
/*
* Check the date format.
*/
else
if ((strspn(argv[arg_count],"0123456789/") != j) ||
(j < 3) || (j > 5) ||
(argv[arg_count][0] == '/') ||
(argv[arg_count][j-1] == '/') ||
(ptr == NULL))
{
fprintf(stderr,"Invalid date \"%s\"...format is \"mm/dd\"\n",
argv[arg_count]);
continue;
}
/*
* Do some basic date validation...
*/
month = atoi(argv[arg_count]);
day = atoi(++ptr);
if (month > 12)
{
fprintf(stderr, "Invalid date \"%d/%d\"...months are from 1 - 12.\n", month,day);
continue;
}
if (day == 0)
{
fprintf(stderr, "Invalid date \"%d/%d\"...the day can not be \"0\"\n", month,day);
continue;
}
else
if (day > days[month-1])
{
fprintf(stderr, "Invalid date \"%d/%d\"...there are only %d days in the month.\n", month,day,days[month-1]);
continue;
}
/*
* Figure out what julian date is being requested and convert
* it to the specific day of the NBA season.
*/
nba_day = get_nba_day(month,day,1);
if (nba_day < 0)
continue;
if (summary_form == 1) /* Do SUMMARY format */
do_summary_sched(month,day,nba_day,team);
else /* Do LONG format */
do_long_sched(month,day,nba_day,team,teamtwo);
}
exit(0);
}
/****************************************************************************
* DO_ALL
*
* This routine will loop through the entire schedule, either from the
* beginning of the season (with the "all" option) or starting from the
* current date to the end of the season (with the "end" option). The
* schedule is printed out for each day.
****************************************************************************/
void do_all(team, teamtwo, daterange)
int team,teamtwo;
char *daterange;
{
int month,day,nba_day;
if (strcmp(daterange,"all") == 0)
{
month = 11;
day = 1;
}
else
{
month = TODAYSmonth;
day = TODAYSday;
}
for (; month != 5; month++)
{
if (month == 13)
month = 1;
for (; day <= days[month-1]; day++)
{
if ((month == 11) & (day < 5))
continue;
if ((month == 4) && (day > 25))
break;
nba_day = get_nba_day(month, day, 0);
if (nba_day < 0)
continue;
do_long_sched(month, day, nba_day, team,teamtwo);
}
day = 1;
}
exit(0);
}
/****************************************************************************
* IS_TEAM
*
* This routine will validate a team that is input by the user to determine
* if the entry is a valid team.
****************************************************************************/
int
is_team(name, team)
char *name;
int *team;
{
char newname[25], checkname[25];
int i, j, k;
/*
* Convert the given name to lower case and all others are lower
* case...ignore spaces.
*/
for (i = k = 0; i < strlen(name); i++)
{
if (name[i] == ' ')
continue;
newname[k++] = tolower(name[i]);
}
newname[k] = '\0';
/*
* Scan the NBA teams for one that matches the given name
*/
for (i = 0; teams[i].longname[0] != '\0'; i++)
{
/*
* Convert the requested name to lower case...ignore spaces.
*/
for (j = k = 0; j < strlen(teams[i].longname); j++)
{
if (teams[i].longname[j] == ' ')
continue;
checkname[k++] = tolower(teams[i].longname[j]);
}
checkname[k] = '\0';
if (strcmp(checkname, newname) == 0)
{
*team = i;
return(1);
}
}
/*
* Scan the NBA teams for one that matches the given name
*/
for (i = 0; teams[i].teamname[0] != '\0'; i++)
{
/*
* Convert the name to check to lower case
*/
for (j = k = 0; j < strlen(teams[i].teamname); j++)
{
if (teams[i].teamname[j] == ' ')
continue;
checkname[k++] = tolower(teams[i].teamname[j]);
}
checkname[k] = '\0';
if (strcmp(checkname, newname) == 0)
{
*team = i;
return(1);
}
}
/*
* No team found
*/
*team = -1;
return(0);
}
/****************************************************************************
* GET_NBA_DAY
*
* This routine figures out where to point into the NBA schedule matrix
* for a requested day.
****************************************************************************/
get_nba_day(month,day, errmsg)
int month,day,errmsg;
{
int nba_day = 0;
for (month--;month > 0;month--)
nba_day += days[month-1];
nba_day += day;
if (nba_day >= 309)
nba_day -= 309;
else
nba_day += 56;
if ((nba_day < 0) || (nba_day >= 171))
{
if (errmsg == 1)
fprintf(stderr,"The NBA regular season runs from 11/5 to 4/24.\n");
return (-1);
}
return (nba_day);
}
/****************************************************************************
* DO_LONG_SCHED
*
* This is the "real" smarts of the program...it takes in a request for a
* schedule on a specific day and prints out the "long form" of the NBA
* schedule for that date.
*
* Optionally, if one team is sent in as a paramter then the schedule for
* just that team is printed. If two teams are sent in, just the head-head
* matchups between those teams are printed.
****************************************************************************/
void
do_long_sched(month,day,nba_day,team,teamtwo)
int month;
int day;
register int nba_day;
int team;
int teamtwo;
{
register int i;
register int j;
int home;
int visitor;
int tip_off;
int alt_site;
int footer;
int tv_game;
int day_o_week;
int found;
char tmpVisitor[25];
char tmpHome[25];
char HomeTeam[15];
char AwayTeam[15];
day_o_week = nba_day % 7;
if (team == -1)
{
if (nba_day == 9)
fprintf(stdout,"\nNBA schedule for today...\n");
else
fprintf(stdout,"\nNBA schedule for %s, %d/%d...\n",
weekday[day_o_week].longform,month,day);
}
/*
* This one's easy...an empty string means nothing is scheduled.
*/
if ((team == -1) && (nba_schedule[nba_day][0] == '\0'))
{
fprintf(stdout," No games scheduled\n");
return;
}
for (i=footer=found=0;nba_schedule[nba_day][i] != '\0';)
{
/*
* The first character is the visiting team.
*/
visitor = nba_schedule[nba_day][i++] - 'a';
/*
* If the next character is a digit...look up the
* alternate game site
*/
if (isdigit(nba_schedule[nba_day][i]))
alt_site = nba_schedule[nba_day][i++] - '0';
else
alt_site = 2;
/*
* The next charater is the home team.
*/
home = nba_schedule[nba_day][i++] - 'a';
/*
* The next character is the tip-off time.
*/
tip_off = nba_schedule[nba_day][i++] - '?' - TZ_FIX;
/*
* If the next character is a digit...look up the
* TV coverage.
*/
if (isdigit(nba_schedule[nba_day][i]))
tv_game = nba_schedule[nba_day][i++] - '0';
else
tv_game = NUM_TV;
/*
* If the user compiled the TV coverage structure to ignore
* this particular network don't print it.
*/
if (tv_coverage[tv_game].printit != 0)
tv_game = NUM_TV;
/*
* If the "TV coverage" string has an asterick in it then
* we need to print out a footer saying that the network
* hasn't made up it's mind to televise the game yet.
*/
if (strchr(tv_coverage[tv_game].network, '*') != NULL)
footer = 1;
/*
* A TEAMNAME of "1" means that we need to print out
* the team's nickname.
*/
if (TEAMNAME == 1)
{
strcpy(HomeTeam, teams[home].teamname);
strcpy(AwayTeam, teams[visitor].teamname);
}
else
{
strcpy(HomeTeam, teams[home].longname);
strcpy(AwayTeam, teams[visitor].longname);
}
/*
* If a team isn't specified, print out every entry
* from the schedule matrix.
*/
if (team == -1)
{
fprintf(stdout,"%8s %-12s at %-12s %s %s\n",
tv_coverage[tv_game].network,
AwayTeam, HomeTeam,
game_time[tip_off],
alternate_site[alt_site].alt_site);
}
/*
* At least one specified team has been found...
*
* If two team names were sent in see if this is the
* matchup requested.
*/
if (teamtwo != -1)
{
if (((visitor == team) && (home == teamtwo)) ||
((visitor == teamtwo) && (home == team)))
{
strcpy(tmpHome, HomeTeam);
strcpy(tmpVisitor, AwayTeam);
fprintf(stdout,"%-6s %10s, %2d/%-2d %-12s at %-12s %s %s\n",
tv_coverage[tv_game].network,
weekday[day_o_week].longform,
month, day,
tmpVisitor, tmpHome,
game_time[tip_off],
alternate_site[alt_site].alt_site);
found++;
break;
}
}
/*
* Only one team was specified...is this the right one?
*/
if ((teamtwo == -1) && ((visitor == team) || (home == team)))
{
/*
* CAPITALIZE the name of the specified team.
*/
if (visitor == team)
{
strcpy(tmpHome, HomeTeam);
for (j = 0; j < strlen(AwayTeam); j++)
tmpVisitor[j] = toupper(AwayTeam[j]);
tmpVisitor[j] = '\0';
}
else
{
strcpy(tmpVisitor, AwayTeam);
for (j = 0; j < strlen(HomeTeam); j++)
tmpHome[j] = toupper(HomeTeam[j]);
tmpHome[j] = '\0';
}
fprintf(stdout,"%-6s %10s, %2d/%-2d %-12s at %-12s %s %s\n",
tv_coverage[tv_game].network,
weekday[day_o_week].longform,
month, day,
tmpVisitor, tmpHome,
game_time[tip_off],
alternate_site[alt_site].alt_site);
found++;
break;
}
}
/*
* The schedule matrix wasn't empty but we didn't find any games
* for the requested team(s).
*/
if ((nba_schedule[nba_day][i] != '\0') && (found == 0))
{
fprintf(stdout," No games scheduled\n");
return;
}
if ((footer == 1) && (team == -1))
fprintf(stdout,"\n * Specific TV game not determined yet.\n");
return;
}
/****************************************************************************
* DO_SUMMARY_SCHED
*
* Another meaty routine similar to "do_long_sched". This one will print
* out a summary of NBA games for one week from the requested date.
*
* Optionally, if one team is sent in as a paramter then the schedule for
* just that team is printed.
****************************************************************************/
void
do_summary_sched(month,day,nba_day,team)
int month;
int day;
register int nba_day;
int team;
{
register int i,j,k;
int home;
int visitor;
char footer[3];
int alt_site;
char site_footers[10];
int tv_game;
char tv_footers[10];
int day_o_week;
int most_lines = 3;
char summary_matrix[7][17][14];
/*
* Initialize the matrix for the summary display.
*/
for (j=0;j<7;j++)
{
strcpy(summary_matrix[j][0], "-----------");
strcpy(summary_matrix[j][2], "-----------");
strcpy(summary_matrix[j][16], "-----------");
day_o_week = (nba_day + j) % 7;
sprintf(summary_matrix[j][1],"| %s %2d/%-2d ",
weekday[day_o_week].summary,month,day);
day++;
if (day > days[month-1])
{
day = 1;
if (++month == 13)
month = 1;
}
for (k=3;k<=15;k++)
strcpy(summary_matrix[j][k],"| ");
}
for (k=0;k<=16;k++)
{
if ((k == 0) || (k == 2) || (k == 16))
strcat(summary_matrix[6][k],"-\n");
else
strcat(summary_matrix[6][k],"|\n");
}
strcpy(site_footers,"000000000");
strcpy(tv_footers,"000000000");
for (j=0;j<7;j++)
{
if ((nba_day+j) >= 171)
{
/* We just went past end of season! */
strcpy(summary_matrix[j][3],"| SEASON ");
strcpy(summary_matrix[j][4],"| IS OVER ");
if (j == 6)
{
strcat(summary_matrix[j][3],"|\n");
strcat(summary_matrix[j][4],"|\n");
}
if (most_lines < 4)
most_lines = 4;
continue;
}
if (nba_schedule[nba_day+j][0] == '\0')
{
/* No games scheduled */
continue;
}
for (i=0,k=3; nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i] != '\0';k++)
{
footer[0] = footer[1] = footer[2] = '\0';
/*
* The first character is the visiting team.
*/
visitor = nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i++] - 'a';
/*
* If the next character is a digit...look up the
* alternate game site
*/
if (isdigit(nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i]))
{
alt_site = nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i++] - '0';
strncat(footer,alternate_site[alt_site].summary,1);
site_footers[alt_site] = '1';
} /* if (isdigit()) */
/*
* The next charater is the home team.
*/
home = nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i++] - 'a';
/*
* The next character is the tip-off time....skip it...
* there is no room on a summary chart!
*/
i++;
/*
* If the next character is a digit...look up the
* TV coverage.
*/
if (isdigit(nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i]))
{
tv_game = nba_schedule[nba_day+j][i++] - '0';
/*
* If the user compiled the TV coverage
* structure to ignore this particular
* network don't print it.
*/
if (tv_coverage[tv_game].printit != 0)
tv_game = NUM_TV;
else
{
strncat(footer,tv_coverage[tv_game].summary,1);
if ((team == visitor) || (team == home) || (team == -1))
tv_footers[tv_game] = '1';
}
}
/*
* If we are only looking for a specific team...always
* put it in the first data row of the printout.
*/
if (team != -1)
k = 3;
if ((team == visitor) || (team == home) || (team == -1)){
sprintf(summary_matrix[j][k],"| %3s-%-3s%2s",
teams[visitor].summary,
teams[home].summary,
footer);
if (j == 6)
strcat(summary_matrix[j][k],"|\n");
if (k > most_lines)
most_lines = k;
}
}
}
/*
* Now print out the summary matrix...
*/
for (k=0;k<=most_lines;k++)
{
for (j=0;j<7;j++)
{
if (summary_matrix[j][k] != NULL)
fprintf(stdout,"%s",summary_matrix[j][k]);
}
}
for (j=0;j<7;j++)
{
if (summary_matrix[j][k] != NULL)
fprintf(stdout,"%s",summary_matrix[j][16]);
}
/*
* Print out any footnotes...first alternate game sites...
*/
for (j=0;j < NUM_ALT_SITES;j++)
if (site_footers[j] == '1')
fprintf(stdout,"%s\n",alternate_site[j].summary);
/*
* ...then TV coverage
*/
for (j=0;j < NUM_TV;j++)
if (tv_footers[j] == '1')
fprintf(stdout,"%s\n",tv_coverage[j].summary);
return;
}
/****************************************************************************
* PRINT_USAGE
*
* Just a dopey little routine to print out the usage message.
****************************************************************************/
void
print_usage(prog_name)
char *prog_name;
{
fprintf(stdout, "Usage: %s [-s] [-s team] [team] [-m team1 team2] [mm/dd... | all | end]\n\nExamples:\n", prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s <- today's games\n",prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s 12/25 1/1 <- games on Christmas and New Years\n",prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s -s <- summary for the next week\n", prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s -s 11/5 <- summary for the first week of the season\n", prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s -s celtics <- Boston summary for the next week\n", prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s -m chicago lakers end <- Chicago/LA games for the rest of the season\n", prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, " %s Magic all <- Orlando's full season schedule\n", prog_name);
fprintf(stdout, "\nTeam names can be either the team nickname (Knicks) or the city.\n");
fprintf(stdout, "City names with spaces can either be put in quotes (\"New York\")\n");
fprintf(stdout, "or entered as a single word without spaces (NewYork)\n");
}
|
| 10.1010 | Dennis Rodman, only his hairdresser knows for sure... | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | P.C.Beavis&ButtHead-ChangeIt!!! | Fri Oct 15 1993 13:57 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1011 | He gots the Wesley Snipes do! | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Fri Oct 15 1993 14:32 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1012 | 74.4M 15 years...with escapes naturally | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:04 | 4 |
|
Mike, in case you missed Webbaaaaaa signed a deal with the Warriors...
mike
|
| 10.1013 | $50M for 6 years; I never miss these things | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:11 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1014 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:13 | 2 |
| too bad, Webber wasn't here last Friday night. The Warriors could've used
them as the Suns whupped them real good.
|
| 10.1015 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:14 | 3 |
| I think it was 50m for 8 years.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1016 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:46 | 2 |
| It's preseason, who cares?
|
| 10.1017 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:49 | 3 |
| Walt, just look at the author of that note and it should make sense.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1019 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:51 | 1 |
| Sorry, I'll show compassion... could be Barkley's last preseason...
|
| 10.1020 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 18 1993 18:54 | 5 |
| > Sorry, I'll show compassion... could be Barkley's last preseason...
gettin' soft on us or somethin'???
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1021 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Mon Oct 18 1993 19:13 | 2 |
| Well, if he's gonna cry later, why beat on him now?
|
| 10.1022 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 18 1993 19:18 | 5 |
| > Well, if he's gonna cry later, why beat on him now?
you even have to ask?? Walt, are you feeling ok today??:-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1023 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Mon Oct 18 1993 19:28 | 4 |
| Nah, I've had a headache and I'm still despondant about Brews'
neighbor and we'll get back to the topic 126 discussion...
|
| 10.1024 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Mon Oct 18 1993 21:06 | 2 |
| So when the Knicks beat the Suns tonight, I don't want to hear no crap
since it's just preseason.
|
| 10.1025 | wasn't that an impressive debut by Bradley! | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Mon Oct 18 1993 22:06 | 0 |
| 10.1026 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Tue Oct 19 1993 01:58 | 8 |
| re: .1025 and Bradley
huh? what did we miss.
and Mike you're right whatever the Knicks do tonight means nothing.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1027 | he's gonna be a bomb | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Tue Oct 19 1993 03:09 | 6 |
| Rony Seikaly stole his lunch, beat him up, and left him with his shorts
around his ankles in Bradley's debut. It wasn't pretty.
Bradley ate about 4 snuffs and was ripped off as many times against
someone who isn't even a premier center. He should go back to BYU and
save face.
|
| 10.1028 | Chuck hurting? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Tue Oct 19 1993 13:00 | 11 |
| While the result of lasted night's game between the Suns and the Knicks
may have not mattered - the Knicks won 100-90 - it might have previewed
what we can expect from some of the principals.
John Stark wasted no time letting everyone know that he would continue
his hard play when he wrestled Sir Charles, preventing a layup.
Chuck did his best Larry Bird look spending time lying down while on the
sidelines.
TTom
|
| 10.1029 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Oct 19 1993 14:17 | 3 |
| where was the game played??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1030 | Knicks wore white | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Tue Oct 19 1993 14:39 | 5 |
| Dunno, TCM.
Them pre-season games are played all over hail and back.
TTom
|
| 10.1031 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | P.C.Beavis&ButtHead-ChangeIt!!! | Tue Oct 19 1993 14:43 | 7 |
| 10.1032 | no big deal, except for Charles | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Tue Oct 19 1993 15:22 | 17 |
| The game was played in NYC. They play again at the end of the month
here. Suns leave NYC for Germany today.
As I predicted yesterday afternoon, the Suns lost. It was a close game
until late in the 3rd. Since the game meant nothing, Phoenix played
mostly their bench. How can you take a game seriously when they start
Kleine, Mustaf, Green, KJ, and Majerle?
There's still some bad blood between these 2 teams. At least the refs
kept control of the game this time. Lots of Technicals were called.
And it's just like Starks to try take out someone that already has a
serious injury. Charles should've squashed him like the bug that
Starks is, but we all know that wouldn't be nice since Rod Thorn was
watching. Rod's a Knick fan.
Mike (The Amazing Carnac of SPORTS)
|
| 10.1033 | carnac missed this one | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Tue Oct 19 1993 15:26 | 9 |
| There was absolutely no attempt by Starks to take Chuck out. He put both
arms around him and held him. He had ample opportunity to cheap shot. He
made it clear he wasn't going to let Chuck shoot but he also made it
clear he wasn't undercutting or tackling.
Speaking of cheap shots, ESPN replayed the KJ shot in promoting the game.
You know, the hit and run?
TTom
|
| 10.1034 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Tue Oct 19 1993 15:47 | 4 |
| It was a bit of a haidlock I thought. Over the back maybe.
No aids today, I'm on vacation..
|
| 10.1035 | Knicks are Thugs | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Tue Oct 19 1993 16:22 | 6 |
| >Speaking of cheap shots, ESPN replayed the KJ shot in promoting the game.
>You know, the hit and run?
yeah he learned those from Doc Rivers and Anthony Mason a few plays
before that. Then Greg Anthony went out and displayed perfection that
put them all to shame right afterwards.
|
| 10.1036 | about the end of that | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Tue Oct 19 1993 16:26 | 6 |
| > yeah he learned those ...
And I thought the crux of this LDUC was that KJ didn't give do this sort
of thang. Hail, here we have Heiser fessin up to multiple cheap shots.\
TTom
|
| 10.1037 | and they're sending these guys to Gemany? | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Oct 19 1993 16:36 | 5 |
| hell the Suns are the team with that guy who elbowed an outmanned Angoran
or was it Andoran or Angolan, no matter, player in the Olympics with the
excuse that the guy could have been carrying a spear. hah!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1038 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Tue Oct 19 1993 17:48 | 8 |
| and on the other hand we have a Knicks team that can only compete by
reducing the game to a WWF match. Outside of Ewing, nobody on the
Knicks could start for any of the top 5 teams. It's a real tribute to
Riley that he can win with a bunch of CBA players and 1 Dream Teamer.
Too bad it won't help him escape the East and Charlotte this season.
Of course, with the current key injuries on the Suns they aren't going
anywhere either.
|
| 10.1039 | bandwagon building | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Tue Oct 19 1993 17:52 | 10 |
| > Too bad it won't help him escape the East and Charlotte this season.
KOD alert!
> Of course, with the current key injuries on the Suns they aren't going
> anywhere either.
Are KJ and Dan hurt?
TTom
|
| 10.1040 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Tue Oct 19 1993 17:54 | 3 |
| >Are KJ and Dan hurt?
yes, but not enough to keep them out (so far).
|
| 10.1041 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Oct 19 1993 18:01 | 1 |
| It's only news if KJ isn't hurt.
|
| 10.1042 | that Mac, he's sure sharp | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Tue Oct 19 1993 18:35 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1043 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Tue Oct 19 1993 19:22 | 1 |
| Good thing it's rpeseason and it don't mean squat...
|
| 10.1044 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Tue Oct 19 1993 21:53 | 5 |
| Walt, the NBA and NHL both have about the same kind of season. They
start around April and go on for about 2 months.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1045 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Oct 20 1993 16:36 | 4 |
| It gets more and more bizarre. Derrick Coleman turned down an
8 year,$69 million offer from the Nets.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1046 | maybe it had no escape clauses??? | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Wed Oct 20 1993 17:37 | 6 |
|
> It gets more and more bizarre. Derrick Coleman turned down an
> 8 year,$69 million offer from the Nets.
He must have heard about BBJ's contract...
|
| 10.1047 | Childs = Elway admirer | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Wed Oct 20 1993 17:57 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1048 | Derrick wants out of New Jersey | SNAX::ERICKSON | Please walk under my tree stand.... | Wed Oct 20 1993 18:46 | 6 |
|
Derrick Coleman wants out of New Jersey. If he signs an eight year
contract he is stuck there. If he waits another year or two he can leave
via free agency. Then sign a big contract where he wants to play.
Ron
|
| 10.1049 | could cost him | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:02 | 14 |
| This line of reasoning will lead to *LESS* money rather than more.
Here's the way it works. What ever he's making now is all that counts
toward the cap if'n he re-signs with the Nets. Like LJ and the Hornets,
even though he's making 5 or 6 or 7 mil a year, as long as he signs as a
contract extension it doesn't "add" to the cap.
Now if he goes somewhere else the same 5 or 6 or 7 mil all counts against
the new team's cap.
However, getting out of New Jersey may be more important to him than
money.
TTom
|
| 10.1050 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:11 | 4 |
| 10.1051 | | PFSVAX::JACOB | GO STEELERS!!!! | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:16 | 15 |
| 10.1052 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:26 | 4 |
| Also, the player/NBA contract is up for renewal and the players will try
and get rid of or heavily modify the salary cap.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1053 | Thanks | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:27 | 6 |
|
Anybody know who were the top 10 players in this past years
draft. I can't find it anywhere.
Chappy
|
| 10.1054 | first round | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:44 | 29 |
| Stolen from various sources:
1. Orlando - Chris Webber 6-9 F Michigan
2. Philadelphia - Shawn Bradley 7-7 C BYU
3. Golden State - Anfernee Hardaway 6-7 G/F Memphis St
4. Dallas - Jamal Mashburn 6-8 F Kentucky
5. Minnesota - Isaih (JR) Rider 6-6 G UNLV
6. Washington - Calbert Cheaney 6-7 F Indiana
7. Sacramento - Bobby Hurley 6-0 Duke
8. Milwaukee - Vin Baker 6-11 F
9. Denver - Rodney Rogers 6-7 F Wake Forest
10. Detroit - Lindsey Hunter 6-2 PG
11 Detroit - Allan Houston 6-6 SG Tennessee
12. LA Lakers - George Lynch 6-8 F No Carolina
13. LA Clippers - Terry DeHere 6-4 G Seton Hall
14. Indiana - Scott Haskins 6-11 C Oregon St
15. Atlanta - Doug Edwards 6-9 F Fla St
16 New Jersey - Rex Walters 6-4 G Kansas
17. Charlotte - Greg Graham 6-4 Indiana
18. Utah - Luther Wright 7-2 C Seton Hall
19. Boston - Acie Earl 6-10 C Iowa
20. Charlotte - Scott Burrell 6-7 UConn
21. Portland - James Robinson 6-2 G Alabama
22. Cleveland - Chris Mills 6-6 F Arizona
23. Seattle - Ervin Johnson 6-11 C New Orleans
24. Houston - Sam Cassell 6-3 PG Fla St
25. Chicago - Corie Blount 6-10 C Cincinnati
26. Orlando - Geert Hammink 7-0 C LSU
27. Phoenix - Malcolm Mackey 6-11 C GA Tech
|
| 10.1055 | Here's last year's lottery | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Pig man - half man, half pig! | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:45 | 13 |
| 1. Golden State: Chris Webber 6-9 F-C Michigan
2. Philadelphia: Shawn Bradley 7-6 C BYU
3. Orlando: Anfernee Hardaway 6-7 G Memphis State
4. Dallas: Jamal Mashburn 6-8 F Kentucky
5. Minnesota: J.R. (Isiaih) Rider 6-6 G UNLV
6. Washington: Calbert Cheaney 6-7 F Indiana
7. Sacramento: Bobby Hurley 6-0 G Duke
8. Milwaukee: Vin Baker 6-11 F Hartford
9. Denver: Rodney Rogers 6-7 F Wake Forest
10. Detroit: Lindsay Hunter 6-1 G Jackson St.
11. Detroit: Allan Houston 6-6 G Tennessee
NAZZ
|
| 10.1056 | Is Michael ret. related to cap? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:47 | 13 |
| I just had a thought:
I wonder if mj's defection(ok retirement) is contingent on salary
cap restructuring?
I have thought all along that Michael thinks his true worth is a
minimum 3 times top salary. So he would be looking for about 15-20
million / year to continue and rather negotiate this publicly is doing
the retirement thing.
I expect to see him back either feb 94 or feb 95.
|
| 10.1057 | still amazed Hurley went so low | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:47 | 4 |
| 24. Houston - Sam Cassell 6-3 PG Fla St
^^^??????????????
though he was more like 5'10"....
|
| 10.1058 | | PFSVAX::JACOB | GO STEELERS!!!! | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:53 | 19 |
|
>> <<< Note 10.1055 by TNPUBS::NAZZARO "Pig man - half man, half pig!" >>>
>> -< Here's last year's lottery >-
And in yesterday's Pennsylvania lottery, the number was
er
where is that paper
Oh well, I forgot.
Sorry
NOT
JaKe
|
| 10.1059 | will the cap remain? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:53 | 11 |
| There's no way Jordan coulda been paid what he was worth without redoing
his contract, which as mentioned previously would severly impact the
Bulls cap.
The question about the cap after 95 is whether or not it's still there.
Re: Cassell's height or lack therein:
Guess I oughta check some of them sources I'm stealing from ;-).
TTom
|
| 10.1060 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:56 | 6 |
| 10.1061 | Contract negotiations would have been easy, Mike gives us the figure | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Oct 20 1993 19:57 | 10 |
| -2, paaa lease.. Didnt you read the note, you can resign without
effecting the cap, Like bird's 7M 1 yr, and Magic's 12M one year
they didnt pay the others 200K each, they could resigne there
current players and go above the cap. So chicago could and would
have paid 15-20M for jordan to stay another year, Im sure they put
an offer on the table which michael refused. He will still make
something like 10-15M in endorsments alone... Not to mention what
he's going to make playing golf :-)
mairb
|
| 10.1062 | so answer us this | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Wed Oct 20 1993 20:01 | 10 |
| MairB,
What was the duration of Jordan's current contract? You can't add money
until after the current contract if'n you want to take the cap loophole.
In any case, there's no way he coulda made more money in the 93-94 season
without it affecting the cap.
In the case of LJ, his money doesn't kick in for another 2 years.
TTom
|
| 10.1063 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Ain't no cure for the overseed blues | Wed Oct 20 1993 20:05 | 7 |
| > Not to mention what he's going to make playing golf :-)
> mairb
I thought Michael usually lost at golf.
brews
|
| 10.1064 | Bulls Bulls Bulls | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Thu Oct 21 1993 11:33 | 13 |
| Thats what the :-) is for. Im not exactly sure when jordan's contract
expired, etc. He's original contract was thru the 93 season but he had
signed a 2 year extension to 95 (this is from memory of course). But
weather there were any kinds of opt out clauses or anything like that I
dont know. But Im sure that chicago did everything they could to try
and keep Mike playing hoops. He's one big meal ticket and Im sure the
Bulls will lose $$$ with the loss of him. But like stated many, many
times. All his long term endorsement contracts are guarenteed weather
he plays basketball or not. And seeing as it was estimated he made in
the 20M range that last few years, the loss of his measily 3 or 4M a
year from the bulls is not that great....
mairb
|
| 10.1065 | let em retire in peace | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Thu Oct 21 1993 11:54 | 4 |
|
I thought Jordan retired????
mike
|
| 10.1066 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Thu Oct 21 1993 15:51 | 7 |
|
Could someone let me know if Reggie Miller is hurt? What happened
to him? How long is he out?
Thanks Chappy
|
| 10.1067 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | thems that die are the lucky ones | Thu Oct 21 1993 17:31 | 3 |
|
Yes Miller twisted an ankle playing pickup hoops. Last I heard he might miss
the first three weeks of the season recuping...
|
| 10.1068 | he tripped over his ears | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Thu Oct 21 1993 17:39 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1069 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Fri Oct 22 1993 13:13 | 5 |
| Maybe pro Bball players shouldn't play in pick-up games. They always
seem to get hurt. Maybe the boys they play against should take their
place?
Tim
|
| 10.1070 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Oct 22 1993 13:19 | 7 |
| 10.1071 | won't get accused of betting | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Real man's sport has started! | Fri Oct 22 1993 14:44 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1072 | some news | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Mon Oct 25 1993 17:43 | 18 |
| Some news:
Gary Grant who was a_unrestricted free agent re-signed with the Clippers
to a new 2 year deal.
Lakers coach Randy Pfund says Doug Christie will start at small forward
leaving James Worthy to come off the bench.
Knicks coach Pat Riley has named John Starks and Doc Rivers as starting
guards. Greg Anthony will back up at the point. Riley said he's only
keeping 4 guards so that means Rolando Blackman and Hubie Davis will
compete for this slot.
New Jersey continues to talk with the 76ers about moving the team to NJ.
So far Philly has rejected the offer to build a_arena for them and the
Flyers.
TTom
|
| 10.1073 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 25 1993 17:47 | 4 |
| when will NJ learn that no matter how many teams play in NJ most of 'em
will still be known as the NY or Philadelphia somethin-or-other?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1074 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Ain't no cure for the overseed blues | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:16 | 3 |
|
DA DEBILS and Nets are NJ, Jints and Jests are NY. Are there any
others?
|
| 10.1076 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:23 | 4 |
| not yet. but I would bet that the Yankees would remain the NY Yankees,
and the 2 Philthy teams would stick with Philadelphia.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1077 | may not help economy all that much | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:24 | 6 |
| > I don't think New Jersey really cares what they choose to call them-
> selves as long as the state can reap the economic benefits of having
how much a stadium, etc. helps the local economy is not at all clear.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1079 | If so why are they such hard heads?? | AD::HEATH | The jinx is broken, Sox '93 Champs | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:32 | 8 |
|
This is semi on the subject but isn't Philly the city that instituted
a city tax and any wage earned there was to be taxed including visiting
teams???
Jerry
|
| 10.1080 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:38 | 6 |
| NYC has had a city tax for ages. They have a commuter tax for people who
work in the city but live outside of it - much less than MASS which taxes
you fully if you work in MAno matter where you live. Not sure what NYC
does with players that play a game or a series in NY.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1081 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:39 | 6 |
| re: .1078
There certainly has been a question whether the impact they make outweighs the
debt burden, etc. that it costs to lure them.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1082 | Just asking | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Mon Oct 25 1993 18:55 | 7 |
|
Yabbut are the Mets moving to WVA?
|
| 10.1084 | NBA News | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Tue Oct 26 1993 13:59 | 17 |
| NBA news:
Jeff Hornacek is reported to be ending his holdout. He's due to return
for tonight's game at Charlotte. No information given about any new
contract.
Golden State signed free agent Avery Johnson, he lately of the Spurs.
Johnson will replace Tim Hardaway who went down for the season.
LA Clippers signed Mark Aguirre to a 1 year deal. Adrian Dantley could
not be reached for comments.
Cedric Ceballos will miss at least 4 weeks with a broken foot.
No new information on who is moving to W.Va.
TTom
|
| 10.1085 | Rider & Dudley | HBAHBA::HAAS | Irmo Okra Strut | Thu Oct 28 1993 12:24 | 15 |
| J.R. Rider officially signed with Minnesota supposedly for 25+ mil for 7
years. Rider was the 5th overall pick and the lasted first rounder to
sign. He celebrated his new found wealth by showing up late for practice,
so late he was told not to bother. Sidney Lowe looks like he has a
problem child on his hands. Rider was involved with a_academic situation
where evidently others were writing papers for him at UNLV.
And Chris Dudley has won round the next in court. His 800K contract with
a 1 year "escape" clause has now been upheld 3 times. The league says it
won't appeal. What this contract allows Portland to do is to pay him 800K
this year and re-sign him next year for almost anything cause he'd still
be only 800K for cap purposes. A team can exceed the cap to re-sign its
own players.
TTom
|
| 10.1086 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Oct 28 1993 13:01 | 4 |
| what is amazing about Dudley's contract is that no team has tried
this before.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1087 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | We Want Zolak! | Thu Oct 28 1993 14:54 | 5 |
| RE: Rider
Looks like Laettner's gonna have somebody to play with.
/Don
|
| 10.1088 | decent point guard | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Thu Oct 28 1993 15:03 | 4 |
| Re: Laettner & Rider
Michael Williams and Chuck Person aren't all that bad. Especially
Williams.
|
| 10.1089 | JR the new BD? | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Thu Oct 28 1993 15:40 | 11 |
| > Re: Laettner & Rider
> Michael Williams and Chuck Person aren't all that bad. Especially
> Williams.
are you sure that's what /er meant? I mena there are other ways
to play.......
mike filling in for Jake....
mike
|
| 10.1090 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Need a nap? Watch tv baseball! | Thu Oct 28 1993 16:08 | 5 |
| Rider already missed his 1st team practice that he was scheduled to
make. The team set up a special time for practice just for him, and he
missed it! A wreck on the bay bridge made him miss his flight.
Tim
|
| 10.1091 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Livin' in the fridge... | Thu Oct 28 1993 16:24 | 2 |
| Doug West is ok too...
|
| 10.1092 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Nov 03 1993 14:07 | 12 |
| I recently received some hoops cards from Walt that had some
interesting portrayals. Upper Deck has a series called "Classic
Confrontations" showing some of the game's best paired off. The series
has photos showing:
Bird vs. Person
Barkley vs. Malone
Magic vs. Jordan
KJ vs. Stockton
The last is pretty surprising since KJ can't be nearly as good as
Stockton.
|
| 10.1093 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Wed Nov 03 1993 14:26 | 14 |
|
> Bird vs. Person
> Barkley vs. Malone
> Magic vs. Jordan
> KJ vs. Stockton
> The last is pretty surprising since KJ can't be nearly as good as
> Stockton.
not really when you consider Bird much better than Person and Jordan better
than Magic...Malone and Barkley is a wash. Both would suck without the aid
of the refs....
mike
|
| 10.1094 | | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Nov 03 1993 14:49 | 5 |
| > than Magic...Malone and Barkley is a wash. Both would suck without the aid
> of the refs....
well extending this to JD-logic(tm), you can say that about the whole
league.
|
| 10.1095 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Ain't no cure for the overseed blues | Wed Nov 03 1993 15:04 | 3 |
| > well extending this to JD-logic(tm), you can say that about the whole
Shouldn't that be JD-logic[sic], and not JD-logic(tm)?
|
| 10.1096 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Nov 03 1993 15:38 | 5 |
| howze about:
(JD-logic[sic])(tm)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1097 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:05 | 2 |
|
doesn't wash Mike and you know it. You ever see Greg Kite get call?
|
| 10.1098 | sure | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:06 | 1 |
| Greg Kite gets lots of calls.
|
| 10.1099 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:07 | 5 |
| -< sure >-
>> Greg Kite gets lots of calls.
yeah against him.....
|
| 10.1100 | flip-side | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:11 | 1 |
| Name a player with talent that gets picked on by the refs.
|
| 10.1101 | Robert Parish | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:13 | 0 |
| 10.1102 | you're too funny | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:15 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1103 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:19 | 7 |
|
cmon Mike the guy slides his foot 6 inches and gets called for traveling
where as Sir Patrick can pretty much keep walking until he gets opened.
The only thing Parish ever got away with in his life was slugging Lambieer
and that's cause the refs consistuted that as a public service jesture...
mike
|
| 10.1104 | stop it man, you're killin me | 16421::HEISER | visualize whirled peas | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:22 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1105 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Ain't no cure for the overseed blues | Wed Nov 03 1993 16:24 | 3 |
| with .1103 MikeC has taken the lead for NOTY.
brews
|
| 10.1106 | Conspiracies | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Nov 03 1993 20:46 | 7 |
| Interesting with MairB's conspiracy note that another in the long line
of JFK conspiracy books is out, this time purporting "No Conspiracy!!"
a la Michael,Charles etal are treated just like Greg Kite.
The book is "Case Closed..." by Gerald Posner if anyone is interested
in the latest sophistication in obfuscation and disinformation
techniques.
|
| 10.1107 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Do you have to let it linger? | Wed Nov 03 1993 21:06 | 1 |
| Bill Laimbeer...
|
| 10.1108 | | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Thu Nov 04 1993 00:40 | 7 |
| -2,
Bill, you is correctemundo. The new conspiracy is no conspiracy,
disinformation is a gubmint practiced art... same as Knick dynasty
fauxism
MikeL
|
| 10.1109 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Thu Nov 04 1993 11:21 | 18 |
|
you talking about the guy of legendary flop fame Walt????
;^)
Sure I jest a bit here, of course the Chief has gotten away with something
just as somewhere along the line I'm sure Kite got a call. Robert Parrish
unfortunately has gotten away with less than any other player of his stature
in the league IMO. He was Bird's scapegoat for years. Refs couldn't call
nothin' on Bird so to appease the other coach Parrish always got tagged
with a few extras....
Now po' po' Robert who should have retired is a pawn in Red's hatred for
LA. He keeps on throwing tons of money at the Chief so he'll outlast that
bum AbdulJabba.
mike
|
| 10.1110 | NBA news | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Thu Nov 04 1993 14:08 | 17 |
| Some NBA items:
Benoit Benjamin will miss the first 2 weeks of the season with a urinary
infection. The Nets moved up a couple of notches in the preseason poll.
John Williams, he of beefalo fame, has been put on the suspended list for
the Clippers. After extensive testing, it has been determined that
Williams is actually Homer Simpson with shoe lifts and a lot of makeup.
He'll continue to get his salary to support that donut habit.
Chris Webber might miss the first 2 games of the season with a bum ankle.
The team will determine his status today.
Orlando has placed Todd Lichti on IR. Lichti is still recuperating from
his ACL tear.
TTom
|
| 10.1111 | | ROYALT::ASHE | Do you have to let it linger? | Thu Nov 04 1993 16:11 | 3 |
| He's in the top 10 or 15 all time for rebounds and averaged what?
15 ppg for his career? That's not bad...
|
| 10.1112 | 93-94 Opening day Rosters | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Fri Nov 05 1993 10:00 | 635 |
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 ATLANTA HAWKS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ====== === == == === =======
1 Ennis Whatley G 6-3 180 7 Alabama
2 Stacey Augmon G-F 6-8 205 2 Nevada-Las Vegas
3 Craig Ehlo G 6-7 205 10 Washington State
6 x-Roy Hinson F 6-9 215 11 Rutgers
10 Mookie Blaylock G 6-1 185 5 Oklahoma
21 Dominique Wilkins F 6-8 215 11 Georgia
25 Paul Graham F 6-6 200 2 Ohio
28 Andrew Lang C 6-11 250 5 Arkansas
31 Adam Keefe F 6-9 241 R Stanford
32 Jon Koncak C 7-0 250 8 Southern Methodist
33 Duane Ferrell F 6-7 215 5 Georgia Tech
34 x-Doug Edwards F 6-7 235 R Florida State
41 x-Blair Rasmussen C 7-0 250 8 Oregon
42 Kevin Willis F-C 7-0 240 9 Michigan State
51 Todd Mundt C 7-0 250 R Delta State
Head Coach: Lenny Wilkens
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 BOSTON CELTICS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
00 Robert Parish C 7-1 230 17 Centenary
4 x-Alaa Abdelnaby F 6-10 240 3 Duke
7 Dee Brown G 6-1 161 3 Jacksonville
12 Chris Corchiani G 6-1 186 2 North Carolina State
20 Sherman Douglas G 6-1 180 4 Syracuse
27 Jimmy Oliver G 6-5 208 1 Purdue
31 Xavier McDaniel F 6-7 205 8 Wichita State
34 Kevin Gamble G-F 6-5 210 6 Iowa
40 Dino Radja F 6-11 225 R Croatia
44 Rick Fox F 6-7 231 2 North Carolina
50 Matt Wenstrom C 7-1 250 R North Carolina
54 Ed Pickney F 6-9 215 8 Villanova
55 Acie Earl F 6-10 240 R Iowa
Head Coach: Chris Ford
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 CHARLOTTE HORNETS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
1 Tyrone Bogues G 5-3 144 6 Wake Forest
2 Larry Johnson F 6-7 257 2 Nevada-Las Vegas
8 Eddie Johnson F 6-7 215 12 Illinois
9 Kevin Lynch G-F 6-5 198 2 Minnesota
22 Johnny Newman F 6-7 198 7 Richmond
24 x-Scott Burrell F 6-7 218 R Connecticut
25 Tony Bennett G 6-0 179 1 Wisconsin/Green Bay
30 Dell Curry G 6-5 210 7 Virginia Tech
32 Hersey Hawkins G 6-3 190 5 Bradley
33 Alonzo Mourning C 6-10 244 1 Georgetown
42 Mike Gminski C 6-11 257 13 Duke
43 Leron Ellis C 6-10 240 1 Syracuse
44 Kenny Gattison F 6-8 255 7 Old Dominion
55 x-David Wingate G 6-5 190 7 Georgetown
Head Coach: Allan Bristow
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 CHICAGO BULLS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 Jo Jo English G 6-4 180 R South Carolina
5 x-John Paxson G 6-2 185 11 Notre Dame
7 Toni Kukoc F-G 6-11 230 R Croatia
8 Jaren Jackson F 6-6 200 4 Georgetown
10 B.J. Armstrong G 6-2 185 4 Iowa
20 Pete Myers G-F 6-6 180 6 Arkansas Little Rock
21 Stacey King F-C 6-11 250 4 Oklahoma
24 Bill Cartwright C 7-1 245 13 San Francisco
25 Steve Kerr G 6-3 180 6 Arizona
30 Jerome Lane F 6-6 250 6 Pittsburgh
32 Will Perdue C 7-0 240 5 Vanderbilt
33 Scottie Pippen F 6-7 225 6 Central Arkansas
34 Bill Wennington C 7-0 245 7 St. John's
42 x-Scott Williams C 6-10 230 3 North Carolina
44 Corey Blount F 6-10 242 R Cincinnati
54 Horace Grant F 6-10 235 7 Clemson
Head Coach: Phil Jackson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 CLEVELAND CAVALIERS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
10 John Battle G 6-2 190 8 Rutgers
11 Terrell Brandon G 5-11 180 2 Oregon
12 Gerald Madkins G 6-4 200 R UCLA
14 Bobby Phills G 6-5 217 2 Southern
18 John Williams F-C 6-11 245 7 Tulane
21 Gerald Wilkins G 6-6 210 8 Tenn. Chattanooga
22 Larry Nance F 6-10 235 12 Clemson
25 Mark Price G 6-0 178 7 Georgia Tech
32 Tyrone Hill F 6-9 245 3 Xavier
35 Danny Ferry F 6-10 236 3 Duke
43 Brad Daugherty C 7-0 263 7 North Carolina
54 Jay Guidinger C 6-10 255 1 Minnesota-Duluth
Head Coach: Mike Fratello
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 DALLAS MAVERICKS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
12 Derek Harper G 6-4 206 10 Illinois
21 Fat Lever G 6-3 180 10 Arizona State
23 Tim Legler G 6-4 200 3 La Salle
24 Jimmy Jackson G 6-6 220 1 Ohio State
30 Lucious Harris G 6-5 190 R Long Beach State
32 Jamal Mashburn F 6-8 240 R Kentucky
33 Randy White F 6-8 240 4 Louisiana Tech
34 Doug Smith F 6-10 238 2 Missouri
35 Donald Hodge F 7-0 239 2 Temple
40 Greg Dreiling C 7-1 250 7 Kansas
43 x-Terry Davis F-C 6-10 250 4 Virginia Union
45 x-Sean Rooks C 6-10 260 1 Arizona
50 Darrin Morningstar C 6-11 250 R Pittsburgh
54 Popeye Jones F 6-8 250 R Murray State
Head Coach: Quinn Buckner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 DENVER NUGGETS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf G 6-1 162 3 Louisiana State
4 Darnell Mee G 6-5 175 R Western Kentucky
8 Brian Williams F 6-11 260 2 Arizona
12 Mark Macon G 6-5 200 2 Temple
20 LaPhonso Ellis F 6-8 240 1 Notre Dame
21 Tom Hammonds F 6-9 225 4 Georgia Tech
23 Bryant Stith G 6-5 208 1 Virginia
30 Marcus Liberty F 6-8 225 3 Illinois
34 Reggie Williams F 6-7 195 6 Georgetown
43 Kevin Brooks F 6-8 200 2 Southwest Louisiana
54 Rodney Rogers F 6-7 255 R Wake Forest
55 Dikembe Mutombo C 7-2 250 1 Georgetown
Head Coach: Dan Issel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 DETROIT PISTONS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
0 Olden Polynice C 7-0 250 6 Virginia
1 Lindsey Hunter G 6-2 195 R Jackson State
3 s-Alvin Robertson G 6-4 208 9 Arkansas
4 Joe Dumars G 6-3 195 8 McNeese State
6 Terry Mills F 6-10 250 3 Michigan
11 Isiah Thomas G 6-1 182 12 Indiana
12 David Wood F 6-9 230 3 Nevada-Reno
20 Allan Houston G 6-6 200 R Tennessee
23 Tracy Moore G 6-4 200 2 Tulsa
32 Sean Elliott F 6-8 215 4 Arizona
33 Greg Anderson F-C 6-10 230 5 Houston
40 Bill Laimbeer C 6-11 260 13 Notre Dame
45 Dan O'Sullivan C 6-10 250 2 Fordham
Head Coach: Don Chaney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
2 Keith Jennings G 5-7 160 1 East Tennessee State
4 Chris Webber F-C 6-10 260 R Michigan
6 Avery Johnson G 5-11 175 5 Southern
10 x-Tim Hardaway G 6-0 175 4 Texas-El Paso
11 Josh Grant F 6-10 225 R Utah
12 Andre Spencer F 6-6 210 1 Northern Arizona
13 x-Sarunas Marciulionis G 6-5 215 3 Lithuania
15 Latrell Sprewell G 6-5 190 1 Alabama
17 x-Chris Mullin F 6-7 215 8 St. John's
21 Byron Houston F 6-5 250 1 Oklahoma State
25 Chris Gatling F-C 6-10 225 2 Old Dominion
30 Billy Owens G-F 6-9 220 2 Syracuse
35 Jud Buechler G-F 6-6 220 3 Arizona
44 Jeff Grayer G-F 6-5 210 5 Iowa State
52 Victor Alexander C-F 6-9 265 2 Iowa State
Head Coach: Don Nelson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 HOUSTON ROCKETS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
1 Scott Brooks G 5-11 165 5 Cal-Irvine
3 Richard Petruska C 6-10 260 R UCLA
7 Carl Herrera F 6-9 225 2 Houston
10 Sam Cassell G 6-3 185 R Florida State
11 Vernon Maxwell G 6-4 190 5 Florida
17 Mario Elie F-G 6-5 210 3 American International
25 Robert Horry F 6-10 220 1 Alabama
30 Kenny Smith G 6-3 170 6 North Carolina
33 Otis Thorpe F 6-10 246 9 Providence
34 Hakeem Olajuwon C 7-0 255 9 Houston
42 Eric Riley C 7-0 245 R Michigan
50 Matt Bullard F 6-10 235 3 Iowa
Head Coach: Rudy Tomjanovich
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 INDIANA PACERS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 x-Haywoode Workman G 6-3 180 2 Oral Roberts
5 Sam Mitchell F 6-7 210 4 Mercer
8 s-Ledell Eackles G 6-5 250 4 New Orleans
10 Vern Fleming G 6-5 185 9 Georgia
14 Gerald Paddio G 6-7 205 2 Nevada-Las Vegas
21 Malik Sealy G-F 6-8 190 1 St. John's
23 Derrick McKey F 6-10 220 6 Alabama
24 Pooh Richardson G 6-1 180 4 UCLA
31 Reggie Miller G 6-7 185 6 UCLA
32 Dale Davis F 6-11 230 2 Clemson
33 Antonio Davis F-C 6-9 230 R Texas-El Paso
41 LaSalle Thompson F 6-10 260 11 Texas
43 Scott Haskin F 6-11 250 R Oregon State
44 x-Kenny Williams F 6-9 205 3 Elizabeth City St.
45 Rik Smits C 7-4 265 5 Marist
Head Coach: Larry Brown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 Tom Tolbert F 6-7 240 5 Arizona
4 Ron Harper G 6-6 198 7 Miami (Ohio)
5 Danny Manning F 6-10 234 5 Kansas
7 Mark Aguirre F 6-6 232 12 Depaul
13 Mark Jackson G 6-3 192 6 St John's
14 Randy Woods G 6-0 185 1 Lasalle
23 Gary Grant G 6-3 195 5 Michigan
24 Terry Dehere G 6-4 190 R Seton Hall
27 Elmore Spencer C 7-0 270 1 Nevada-Las Vegas
32 x-Henry James F 6-8 220 3 St. Marys
34 s-John Williams F 6-9 295 6 Louisiana State
35 Loy Vaught F 6-9 240 3 Michigan
42 Bob Martin C 7-0 255 R Minnesota
53 Stanley Roberts C 7-0 290 2 Louisiana State
Head Coach: Bob Weiss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 LOS ANGELES LAKERS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
1 x-Anthony Peeler G 6-4 212 1 Missouri
3 Sedale Threatt G 6-2 185 10 West Virginia Tech
7 Trevor Wilson F 6-8 215 1 UCLA
8 Doug Christie G-F 6-6 205 1 Pepperdine
9 Nick Van Exel G 6-1 170 R Cincinnati
12 Vlade Divac C 7-1 250 4 Yugoslavia
24 George Lynch F 6-8 223 R North Carolina
30 Kurt Rambis F 6-8 215 12 Santa Clara
31 Sam Bowie C 7-1 263 8 Kentucky
34 Tony Smith G 6-4 205 3 Marquette
40 Antonio Harvey C-F 6-11 225 R Pfeiffer
41 x-Elden Campbell F-C 6-11 250 3 Clemson
42 James Worthy F 6-9 225 11 North Carolina
53 James Edwards C 7-1 252 16 Washington
Head Coach: Randy Pfund
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 MIAMI HEAT ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
2 Keith Askins G-F 6-8 216 3 Alabama
3 Steve Smith G 6-8 208 2 Michigan State
4 Rony Seikaly C 6-11 252 5 Syracuse
10 Manute Bol C 7-7 225 8 Bridgeport
12 Vernell Coles G 6-2 185 3 Virginia Tech
20 Brian Shaw G 6-6 194 5 Missouri
22 John Salley F-C 6-11 245 7 Georgia Tech
32 Harold Miner G 6-5 221 1 Southern California
33 x-Alec Kessler F-C 6-11 240 3 Georgia
34 Willie Burton G-F 6-8 219 3 Minnesota
35 Gary Alexander F 6-7 240 R South Florida
41 Glen Rice F 6-8 220 4 Michigan
43 x-Grant Long F 6-9 230 5 Eastern Michigan
52 Matt Geiger C 7-0 245 1 Georgia Tech
Head Coach: Kevin Loughery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 MILWAUKEE BUCKS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
00 Anthony Avent F 6-9 235 1 Seton Hall
3 Ken Norman F 6-9 238 6 Illinois
5 Eric Murdock G 6-1 200 2 Providence
10 Todd Day G-F 6-6 188 1 Arkansas
11 Lee Mayberry G 6-1 172 1 Arkansas
17 Jon Barry G 6-5 204 1 Georgia Tech
20 Derek Strong F 6-8 220 2 Xavier
24 Dan Schayes C 6-11 268 12 Syracuse
30 Blue Edwards G-F 6-4 228 4 East Carolina
40 Frank Brickowski F-C 6-9 248 9 Penn State
42 Vin Baker F 6-10 250 R Hartford
54 Brad Lohaus F-C 6-11 238 6 Iowa
Head Coach: Mike Dunleavy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 Chris Smith G 6-3 191 1 Connecticut
5 Doug West G 6-6 200 4 Villanova
7 x-Stanley Jackson G 6-3 185 R Alabama-Birmingham
13 Luc Longley C 7-2 265 2 New Mexico
23 Brian Davis G-F 6-7 195 R Duke
24 Micheal Williams G 6-2 175 5 Baylor
25 Marlon Maxey F 6-8 250 1 Texas-El Paso
30 Tellis Frank F-C 6-10 225 4 Western Kentucky
32 Christian Laettner F 6-11 235 1 Duke
34 Isaiah Rider G-F 6-5 215 R Nevada-Las Vegas
40 Mike Brown C-F 6-10 260 8 George washington
41 Thurl Bailey F 6-11 247 9 North Carolina State
45 Chuck Person F 6-8 225 7 Auburn
Head Coach: Sidney Lowe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 NEW JERSEY NETS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
00 x-Benoit Benjamin C 7-0 265 8 Creighton
1 David Wesley G 6-0 190 R Baylor
2 Rex Walters G 6-4 190 R Kansas
4 Rick Mahorn F 6-10 260 12 Hampton Institute
7 Kenny Anderson G 6-1 168 2 Georgia Tech
20 Rumeal Robinson G 6-2 195 3 Michigan
21 Kevin Edwards G 6-3 210 5 DePaul
33 Dwayne Schintzius C 7-2 285 3 Florida
34 Chris Morris F 6-8 220 5 Auburn
42 P.J. Brown C-F 6-11 240 R Louisiana State
43 Armon Gilliam F 6-9 245 6 Nevada-Las Vegas
44 Derrick Coleman F 6-10 258 3 Syracuse
55 Jason Williams F 6-10 245 3 St. John's
Head Coach: Chuck Daly
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 NEW YORK KNICKS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 John Starks G 6-5 185 4 Oklahoma State
4 Anthony Bonner F 6-8 225 3 St. Louis
9 Tony Campbell G-F 6-7 215 9 Ohio State
14 Anthony Mason F 6-7 250 4 Tennessee State
20 Rolando Blackman G 6-6 206 12 Kansas State
25 Doc Rivers G 6-4 185 10 Marquette
32 Herb Williams F-C 6-11 260 12 Ohio State
33 Patrick Ewing C 7-0 240 8 Georgetown
34 Charles Oakley F 6-9 245 8 Virginia Union
40 x-Tim McCormick C 7-0 240 9 Michigan
42 x-Eric Anderson F 6-9 230 1 Indiana
44 Hubert Davis G 6-5 183 1 North Carolina
50 Greg Anthony G 6-2 185 2 Nevada-Las Vegas
54 Charles Smith F 6-10 244 5 Pittsburgh
Head Coach: Pat Riley
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 ORLANDO MAGIC ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
00 x-Anthony Cook F-C 6-9 240 2 Arizona
1 Anfernee Hardaway G 6-7 195 R Memphis State
3 Dennis Scott G-F 6-8 229 3 Georgia Tech
4 Scott Skiles G 6-1 180 7 Michigan State
5 Donald Royal F 6-8 214 3 Notre Dame
11 Litterial Green G 6-1 190 1 Georgia
14 Anthony Bowie G-F 6-6 200 4 Oklahoma
24 x-Todd Lichti G 6-4 205 4 Stanford
25 Nick Anderson G-F 6-6 220 4 Illinois
31 Jeff Turner F 6-9 244 7 Vanderbilt
32 Shaquille O'Neal C 7-1 301 1 Louisiana State
34 Greg Kite C-F 6-11 263 10 Brigham Young
42 Larry Krystkowiak F 6-9 240 7 Montana
55 Keith Tower F-C 6-11 250 R Notre Dame
Head Coach: Brian Hill
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 PHILADELPHIA 76ERS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
2 Moses Malone C 6-10 255 17 None
3 Dana Barros G 5-11 163 4 Boston College
7 Sean Green F 6-5 210 2 Iona
11 Greg Graham G 6-4 215 R Indiana
12 Johnny Dawkins G 6-2 170 7 Duke
14 Jeff Hornacek G 6-4 190 7 Iowa State
20 Michael Curry F 6-5 219 R Georgia Southern
23 Tim Perry F 6-9 220 5 Temple
30 Clarence Weatherspoon F 6-7 240 1 So. Mississippi
43 Warren Kidd F 6-9 235 R Middle Tennessee State
45 Eric Leckner C 6-11 265 4 Wyoming
76 Shawn Bradley C 7-6 248 R Brigham Young
Head Coach: Fred Carter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 PHOENIX SUNS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
0 Jerrod Mustaf F 6-10 245 3 Maryland
3 Frank Johnson G 6-3 185 9 Wake Forest
7 Kevin Johnson G 6-1 190 6 California
8 x-Tim Kempton C 6-10 255 4 Notre Dame
9 Dan Majerle G-F 6-6 220 5 Central Michigan
22 Danny Ainge G 6-5 185 12 Brigham Young
23 x-Cedric Ceballos F 6-7 225 3 Fullerton State
25 Oliver Miller C 6-9 280 1 Arkansas
27 x-Malcolm Mackey F-C 6-10 248 R Georgia Tech
32 Negele Knight G 6-1 182 3 Dayton
34 Charles Barkley F 6-6 252 9 Auburn
35 Joe Kleine C 7-0 271 8 Arkansas
40 Joe Courtney F 6-9 235 1 Southern Mississippi
41 Mark West C 6-10 246 10 Old Dominion
45 A.C. Green F 6-9 225 8 Oregon State
Head Coach: Paul Westphal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
1 Rod Strickland G 6-3 185 5 DePaul
2 Mark Bryant F 6-9 245 5 Seton Hall
3 Clifford Robinson F 6-10 225 4 Connecticut
22 Clyde Drexler G 6-7 222 10 Houston
24 Chris Dudley C 6-11 240 6 Yale
25 Jerome Kersey F 6-7 225 9 Longwood (Va)
26 James Robinson G 6-2 180 R Alabama
30 Terry Porter G 6-3 195 8 Wis-Stevens Point
31 Tracy Murray F 6-7 228 1 UCLA
35 x-Kevin Thompson C 6-11 260 R North Carolina State
44 Harvey Grant F 6-9 235 5 Oklahoma
52 Buck Williams F 6-8 225 12 Maryland
54 Reggie Smith F 6-10 251 1 Texas Christian
Head Coach: Rick Adelman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 SACRAMENTO KINGS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
2 Mitch Richmond G 6-5 215 5 Kansas State
3 Randy Brown G 6-3 190 2 New Mexico State.
4 Spud Webb G 5-7 133 8 North Carolina State
7 Bobby Hurley G 6-0 165 R Duke
22 Lionel Simmons F 6-7 210 3 La Salle
23 Wayman Tisdale F 6-9 260 8 Oklahoma
31 Duane Causwell C 7-0 240 3 Temple
32 Pete Chilcutt F-C 6-10 232 2 North Carolina
33 Jim Les G 5-11 175 5 Bradley
42 Walt Williams G-F 6-8 230 1 Maryland
45 Randy Breuer C 7-3 260 10 Minnesota
53 x-Evers Burns F 6-8 260 R Maryland
54 Mike Peplowski F-C 6-10 270 R Michigan State
Head Coach: Garry St. Jean
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 SAN ANTONIO SPURS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
3 Dale Ellis G 6-7 215 10 Tennessee
7 J.R Reid F-C 6-9 260 4 North Carolina
10 Dennis Rodman F 6-8 210 7 Southeast Oklahoma St.
15 Vinny Del Negro G 6-4 200 3 North Carolina State
20 Chris Whitney G 6-0 170 R Clemson
21 Sleepy Floyd G 6-3 185 11 Georgetown
24 Lloyd Daniels G-F 6-7 205 1 None
34 Terry Cummings F 6-9 250 11 DePaul
35 Antoine Carr F 6-9 255 9 Wichita State
40 Willie Anderson G-F 6-8 205 5 Georgia
50 David Robinson C 7-1 225 4 Navy
52 Chuck Nevitt C 7-5 250 9 North Carolina State
Head Coach: John Lucas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 SEATTLE SUPERSONICS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
10 Nate McMillan G-F 6-5 200 7 North Carolina State
11 Detlef Schrempf F 6-10 235 8 Washington
13 Kendall Gill G 6-5 200 3 Illinois
14 Sam Perkins F-C 6-9 255 9 North Carolina
17 Vincent Askew G-F 6-6 235 4 Memphis State
20 Gary Payton G 6-4 190 3 Oregon State
22 Ricky Pierce G 6-4 215 11 Rice
35 x-Chris King F 6-8 215 R Wake Forest
40 Shawn Kemp F 6-10 245 4 Trinity JC
44 Michael Cage C-F 6-9 240 9 San Diego State
45 Rich King C 7-2 265 2 Nebraska
50 Ervin Johnson C 6-11 245 R New Orleans
55 Steve Scheffler C 6-9 250 3 Purdue
Head Coach: George Karl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 UTAH JAZZ ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
6 Jay Humphries G 6-3 185 9 Colorado
12 John Stockton G 6-1 175 9 Gonzaga
20 Walter Bond G 6-5 200 1 Minnesota
21 David Benoit F 6-8 220 2 Alabama
23 Tyrone Corbin F 6-6 222 8 DePaul
24 Jeff Malone G 6-4 256 10 Mississippi State
25 John Crotty G 6-1 185 1 Virginia
32 Karl Malone F 6-9 256 8 Louisiana Tech
34 Bryon Russell F 6-7 225 R Long Beach State
42 Tom Chambers F-C 6-10 230 10 Utah
44 Luther Wright C 7-2 270 R Seton Hall
50 Felton Spencer C 7-0 265 3 Louisville
53 x-Mark Eaton C 7-4 286 11 UCLA
Head Coach: Jerry Sloan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1993-94 WASHINGTON BULLETS ROSTER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS COLLEGE
== ===== === == == === =======
00 Kevin Duckworth C 7-0 275 7 Eastern Illinois
2 Buck Johnson F 6-7 200 7 Alabama
3 Rex Chapman G 6-4 205 5 Kentucky
10 Michael Adams G 5-10 175 8 Boston College
14 Doug Overton G 6-3 190 1 La Salle
20 Brent Price G 6-1 185 1 Oklahoma
22 LaBradford Smith G 6-3 205 2 Louisville
24 Tom Gugliotta F 6-10 240 1 North Carolina State
33 x-Larry Stewart F 6-8 230 2 Coppin State
34 Don MacLean F 6-10 225 1 UCLA
40 Calbert Cheaney F-G 6-7 215 R Indiana
43 x-Pervis Ellison F-C 6-10 225 4 Louisville
77 x-Gheorghe Muresan C 7-7 333 R Cluj Romania
Head Coach: Wes Unseld
s-Suspended
x-Injured
|
| 10.1113 | GT Baby | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Fri Nov 05 1993 12:42 | 19 |
|
Ok take your favorite College Team alumns, or any College team and see which
team is better on paper.
PF Alonzo Mourning
SF Reggie Williams
C Patrick Ewing
PG Sleepy Floyd
SG David Wingate
Backup C Dikembe Mutombo
F Jaren Jackson
Chap
|
| 10.1114 | not my fav, but a better lineup | 16421::HEISER | it's when they look you in the eyes and say | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:06 | 10 |
| PF Marques Johnson
SF Jamaal Wilkes
C Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
SG Reggie Miller
PG Pooh Richardson
Backup:
C Bill Walton
SF Kiki Vandeweghe
|
| 10.1115 | How bout them Heels | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:17 | 9 |
| PF JR Reid
SF Rick Fox
C Pete Chilcut
SG Hubie Davis
PG Jeff Lebo
Backup:
C Matt Wenstrom
SF Joe Wolf
|
| 10.1116 | Kick ass Crusaders | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:21 | 10 |
|
PF Tommy Heinhson
SF Rob Feaster
C Ron Texiera
SG Ronnie Perry
PG Bob Cousy
no backup real ironmen
mike
|
| 10.1117 | | 16421::HEISER | it's when they look you in the eyes and say | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:25 | 1 |
| where did Elgin Baylor go to school?
|
| 10.1118 | One of the bested HS atheletes ever in NE | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is one year old!!! | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:26 | 1 |
| Whatever happenedto Ronnie Perry?
|
| 10.1119 | | 16421::HEISER | it's when they look you in the eyes and say | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:28 | 3 |
| Re: Holy Cross
Didn't Togo Palazzi go to school there too?
|
| 10.1120 | | CNTROL::KING | | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:29 | 3 |
| Mike,
He went to The College of Idaho and then transfered to Seattle Univ
|
| 10.1121 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:34 | 7 |
|
> He went to The College of Idaho and then transfered to Seattle Univ
...without passing through Arizona... ;-)
glenn
|
| 10.1122 | A new Ford, maybe | CNTROL::KING | | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:38 | 4 |
| Glenn,
He actually sat out a year and played for Westside Ford, an AAU team in
Seattle
|
| 10.1123 | How 'bout them Redmen!!!!!!! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:43 | 17 |
|
c - Bill Wennington
f - Jason Williams
f - Chris Mullin
g/f - Malik Sealy
g - Yelraf Nivek (he's so fassst the other guys look like they're
going backwards!)
;^)
I remain,
still hopping to be a lottery pick!
(so I didn't actually "attend" class @SJU, I went there many times)
Kev
|
| 10.1124 | But they never won nada!! | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Fri Nov 05 1993 13:55 | 16 |
| Well,
F Adrian Dantley
C LaPhonso Ellis
F Tommy Hawkins
PG Austin Carr
SG Bill Hanzlik
Bench
Bill Laimbeer
John Paxson
Kelly Tripucka
Tim Kempton
David Rivers
|
| 10.1125 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Fri Nov 05 1993 14:10 | 11 |
|
Yelraf who?????? :-)
I was kinda like asking for current players. But there are some good
teams there.
Matt Wenstrom?? :-)
Chap
|
| 10.1126 | ASU | 16421::HEISER | parenting: no place for wimps | Fri Nov 05 1993 14:25 | 9 |
| F Sam Williams
F Alton Lister
C Kurt Nimphius ;-)
G Byron Scott
G Fat Lever
backups:
G Lionel Hollins
C Issac Austin
|
| 10.1127 | fun with numbers - comparison of 4 best teams | 16421::HEISER | parenting: no place for wimps | Fri Nov 05 1993 14:50 | 44 |
| I just did some numbers games with what I felt were the 4 best teams
in the NBA. Using the same formula I use for the rookies, and player
rankings, I evaluated Seattle, Phoenix, Charlotte, and New York based
on their projected starting 5 and 6th man. Here are the results:
Rank Player Team PO GP MIN REBT ASST STL BLKS PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RATING
16 Shawn Kemp SEA C 78 2582 833 155 119 146 1388 2641 33.1 17.8 10.7 1.99 3.4 125
18 Detlef Schrempf IND F 81 3063 772 487 78 27 1546 2910 37.8 19.1 9.53 6.01 1.3 123
88 Sam Perkins SEA F 79 2351 524 152 60 80 1036 1852 29.8 13.1 6.63 1.92 1.77 80.5
55 Gary Payton SEA G 82 2548 281 399 177 21 1110 1988 31.1 13.5 3.43 4.87 2.41 98
61 Kendall Gill CHA G 69 2430 340 268 98 36 1167 1909 35.2 16.9 4.93 3.88 1.94 94.1
122 Ricky Pierce SEA G 77 2218 192 217 101 7 1403 1920 28.8 18.2 2.49 2.82 1.4 69.4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVE 77.67 2532 490.3 279.7 105.5 52.83 1275 2203. 32.63 16.43 6.285 3.582 2.037 98.33
Rank Player Team PO GP MIN REBT ASST STL BLKS PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RATING
4 Charles Barkley PHO F 76 2859 928 385 119 74 1944 3450 37.6 25.6 12.2 5.07 2.54 151
32 Kevin Johnson PHO G 49 1643 104 384 85 19 791 1383 33.5 16.1 2.12 7.84 2.12 113
59 Dan Majerle PHO G 82 3199 383 311 138 35 1388 2255 39 16.9 4.67 3.79 2.11 94.6
104 Oliver Miller PHO C 56 1069 275 118 38 100 313 844 19.1 5.59 4.91 2.11 2.46 76.3
84 A.C. Green LAL F 82 2817 711 116 88 38 1051 2004 34.4 12.8 8.67 1.41 1.54 82
153 Danny Ainge PHO G 78 2107 211 255 66 8 922 1462 27 11.8 2.71 3.27 .949 61.2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVE 70.5 2282. 435.3 261.5 89 45.67 1068. 1900. 31.77 14.80 5.88 3.915 1.953 96.35
Rank Player Team PO GP MIN REBT ASST STL BLKS PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RATING
17 Alonzo Mourning CHA C 78 2644 805 76 27 270 1639 2817 33.9 21 10.3 .974 3.81 125
21 Tyrone Bogues CHA G 81 2833 298 711 161 4 808 1982 35 9.98 3.68 8.78 2.04 120
33 Larry Johnson CHA F 82 3319 858 352 53 27 1812 3102 40.5 22.1 10.5 4.29 .976 113
57 Hersey Hawkins PHI G 81 2977 346 317 137 29 1643 2472 36.8 20.3 4.27 3.91 2.05 96.3
188 Johnny Newman CHA F 64 1475 149 118 45 19 762 1093 23 11.9 2.33 1.84 1 49.5
198 Eddie Johnson SEA F 82 1869 272 135 36 4 1177 1624 22.8 14.4 3.32 1.65 .488 47.8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVE 78 2520. 454.7 284.8 76.5 58.83 1307. 2182. 32 16.61 5.733 3.574 1.727 91.93
Rank Player Team PO GP MIN REBT ASST STL BLKS PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RATING
12 Patrick Ewing NYK C 81 3003 980 151 74 161 1959 3325 37.1 24.2 12.1 1.86 2.9 130
80 John Starks NYK G 80 2477 204 404 91 12 1397 2108 31 17.5 2.55 5.05 1.29 84.2
87 Doc Rivers NYK G 77 1886 192 397 125 9 604 1327 24.5 7.84 2.49 5.16 1.74 81.3
115 Charles Smith NYK F 81 2172 432 142 48 94 1003 1719 26.8 12.4 5.33 1.75 1.75 72.6
116 Charles Oakley NYK F 82 2230 708 126 85 15 565 1499 27.2 6.89 8.63 1.54 1.22 72.5
120 Anthony Mason NYK F 81 2482 640 170 43 18 831 1702 30.6 10.3 7.9 2.1 .753 70.6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AVE 80.33 2375 526 231.7 77.67 51.5 1060. 1947. 29.53 13.19 6.5 2.91 1.609 85.2
|
| 10.1128 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Nov 05 1993 18:35 | 6 |
| The NBA has once again stepped into the International arena buy once
again putting a basketball franchise in Toronto. They will begin play
in the 1995-96 season.
The NBA turned down the Celtics request to eliminate the late Reggie
Lewis' salary from the salary cap.
|
| 10.1129 | Makes no sense to moi | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Fri Nov 05 1993 18:43 | 11 |
| -1,
Mac,
That means that the Celts will "carry" this salary until 1996 I
believe.
I believe the rule regarding salary cap exceptions is a
"career ending injury". Not to be crude,how the hail would the
Board of Govs categorize Lewis' death?
MikeL
|
| 10.1130 | Penalizing the Celtics for their years of greatness | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics win 1993-94 NBA Title | Fri Nov 05 1993 18:48 | 27 |
| Here is the Lewis scenario. Someone please explain to me the rationale
for denying the Celtics request.
Lewis earned $425,000 three seasons ago. He got his contract
renegotiated to where he made $3.3 million last year. This contract
runs through the 1996 season.
According to NBA salary cap rules, for any player who recevies a raise
over 50% of his current salary while his club is over the cap can only
have his PREVIOUS BASE SALARY BEFORE THE RAISE used for replacement
purposes under the cap.
There is no provision for replacing a player due to death. The board
of governors said that this is similar to a player sustaining a career
ending injury. But, if a player sustains a career ending injury, the
salary cap allows the team to use HALF OF HIS LAST SALARY to replace
him on the roster. The board of governors, despite saying that the
salary cap slot should be treated like a career ending injury, refused
to allow the Celtics the leeway that is granted to a retired player.
So instead of a $1.65 million slot, the Celts get to use only a
$480,000 slot. So they replace Reggie Lewis with Chris Corchiani.
BTW, can anyone think of a player who was forced to leave the league at
age 27 due to a career ending injury? It has never happened, at least
not to a player of Lewis' stature.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1131 | | DECWET::METZGER | Ask me if I care. | Fri Nov 05 1993 19:26 | 5 |
|
How do the cap rules apply to Jordan's retirement? Aren't career ending
injuries and retirement pretty much the same thing?
Metz
|
| 10.1132 | The key is stick to Red - beau. music to many | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Nov 05 1993 20:17 | 12 |
| If I recall from Bird retirement, it is spelled out exactly when a
player "retires". A death, dismemberment is apparently undocumented
and I agree in the case of celtics a beautiful opportunity to stick to
the green and Red.
Now Orlando can go off and pick numero uno two years in a row, the
second after kiting it down the stretch - they got blown out by celtics
when a win may have qualified them, recall that anyone? - and that's
all fine.
Some of this may be the steadfast refusal over the years to upgrade to
a new arena but that is finally happening (it is isn't it?)
|
| 10.1133 | USA Today player position rankings | 16421::HEISER | parenting: no place for wimps | Fri Nov 05 1993 20:24 | 7 |
| Anyone catch the player position rankings in today's USA Today? Suns
are the only team with 4 of 5 starters ranked in the top 10 in their
position.
On the other hand, I really have to eat crow and give Riles a ton of
credit. He's done a remarkable job with his premier player and 11
CBA'ers.
|
| 10.1134 | | GRANPA::DFAUST | With every wish,there comes a curse | Sat Nov 06 1993 15:27 | 9 |
| re: 27 yr old player with a career ending injury
The Sixers had a problem when Andrew Toney's feet quit on him. I'm not
sure if he was 27 or maybe a little older, but I do know it screwed up
the Sixers salary stucture for quite a few years, because Andrew was on
a long term contract.
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.1135 | Antoine Carr | SNAX::BURKE | | Mon Nov 08 1993 12:54 | 10 |
| Hi,
Does anyone know what going on with Antoine Carr. I've got him on
my fantasy bball team. I thought he was the sixth man on the Spurs but
he wasn't in the Spurs box score Saturday. Is he hurt, benched or was he
traded or something??
Wally
|
| 10.1136 | played, sort of | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Mon Nov 08 1993 14:54 | 5 |
| He had 8 points, 0 assists. 4 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers in 13
minutes as San Antonio lost 99-73 to the Nets. I think it's the lowest
total for the franchise.
TTom
|
| 10.1137 | zing | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Mon Nov 08 1993 18:09 | 6 |
|
In the some things never change department the Lakers fans again prove
thier ficklness and shallowness by booing A.C. Green roundly friday nite.
Never catch C's fans showing such classlessness....
mike
|
| 10.1138 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Nov 08 1993 18:15 | 3 |
| actually this year we'll see the C's fans booing the whole team. hehehe
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1140 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Nov 08 1993 18:30 | 6 |
| > And Madison Square Garden will be half empty from Decenber until February
unlikely Tommy; you're gonna be soooo disappointed that I may even send
over a box of tissues that you can wipe those teary eyes with.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1141 | Hooray for the refs! (I won't say that often!) | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics win 1993-94 NBA Title | Mon Nov 08 1993 18:36 | 16 |
| A huge congrats to the NBA refs who worked Friday's Knicks Celtics
game. They actually called SIX illegal defenses against the Knicks,
four in the first quarter alone!!! It was great fun watching Pat Riley
jump up, scream, point, scream some more, get disgusted, glare at the
refs, then stalk away.
What happened is that the refs finally started to call the Knicks
illegal rotation on defense. What they do is double the ball, then
rotate the defense to the next closest man, which is fine. But what
the Knicks tend to do is only partially rotate, leaving one or two guys
playing a zone against the rest of the opposition. Either you
completely rotate, or you don't rotate at all; you can't trap with
two guys and play a zone defense with one or more of the other
defenders.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1142 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Nov 08 1993 18:45 | 3 |
| and the Knicks won anyway.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1143 | As dumb a rule as exists in sports | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Mon Nov 08 1993 19:00 | 7 |
| The NBA "illegal" defense call is so complicated even my
perfect_SAT_score_brain cain't figure it out.
Then again, the rule is so stupid it's probably not really my fault.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1144 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is one year old!!! | Mon Nov 08 1993 19:03 | 17 |
| re .1138
I don't think so, TCM.
Most Celtics fans realize that the team is going nowhere thised year,
and will be fortunate to make the playoffs. We will be looking for
things that point to a bright future for the team, like progress over
the course of the season from the younger players.
re .1141
NAZZ
I was fortunate (?) ebnough to catch yo' mug several times on
Sportschannel Friday - youze famous agin.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1145 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Nov 08 1993 19:07 | 6 |
| > I was fortunate (?) ebnough to catch yo' mug several times on
> Sportschannel Friday - youze famous agin.
and you call yourself a Cadet!!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1146 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is one year old!!! | Mon Nov 08 1993 19:11 | 3 |
| . and you call yourself a Cadet!!
Huh?
|
| 10.1147 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Nov 08 1993 19:14 | 7 |
| ebnough
^^^^^^^
youze famous agin.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1148 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Nov 08 1993 21:11 | 1 |
| So, TCM, where is the improper apostrophe usage in Bob's reply?
|
| 10.1149 | | GWEN::ASHE | Do you have to let it linger? | Tue Nov 09 1993 16:09 | 10 |
| Gary Grant
Rumeal Robinson
Glen Rice
Chris Webber
Loy Vaught
res:
Eric Riley
Mike McGee and Rickey Green could be brought out of retirement.
|
| 10.1150 | | GWEN::ASHE | Do you have to let it linger? | Tue Nov 09 1993 16:15 | 5 |
| Nazz,
What happened with the Kings' cap when Ricky Berry died? Or was the
cap in effect then?
|
| 10.1151 | another Wolverine | 16421::HEISER | the NBA: it's pretty darn good | Tue Nov 09 1993 16:31 | 1 |
| Walt, what about Cazzie Russell?
|
| 10.1152 | | GWEN::ASHE | Do you have to let it linger? | Tue Nov 09 1993 19:56 | 1 |
| I was using current players if possible...
|
| 10.1153 | Rodman | STRATA::BARBIERI | God can be so appreciated! | Wed Nov 10 1993 16:52 | 10 |
| Rodman had 29 rebounds (11 offensive) last night in San Antonio's
win against the Timberwolves.
I couldn't believe it when the Suns didn't trade Dumas straight
up for him and I can't believe it now.
Just my own opinion, but had the Suns traded for Rodman, they would
have been last year's champion.
Tony
|
| 10.1154 | A couple of factors in the Kings favor at that time | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics win 1993-94 NBA Title | Wed Nov 10 1993 19:18 | 6 |
| Ricky berry was a first year player who hadn't received the huge
increase that Reggie did two years prior to his death. Also, the Kings
were more than likely under the cap, so that they could use his most
recent salary to slot a preplacement for him, not a previous salary.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1155 | Koncak held Utah to only *31* (!) offensive boards | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Nov 11 1993 16:31 | 13 |
| Stumbled across that bastion of international entertainment, The Atlanta
Hawks, while channel surfing last night. Just watching this rag-tag
collection of individualists was bad enough, but when the color
commentator announced that "so-and-so" did a great job of spelling Jon
Koncak, wail, I thought I must've surfed past to The Comedy Channel!!!
Yea, that NBA professional Jon Koncak surly *does* need a_occasional
blow until he's ready to get back in and continue his dominating play!
Haw!!!
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1156 | must be related | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Thu Nov 11 1993 16:48 | 8 |
| I would of thought that in the context of your feeling about NBA you
would deprogram any station that shows it, thereby avoiding such a_upset
as accidently and seeing it while surfing.
The humor about Koncak was the other day he shows up, I think for the
Bulls game, and his jersey spells *KONACK*.
TTom
|
| 10.1157 | My favorite channel | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Nov 11 1993 16:50 | 9 |
| re: .-1
De-program Sports South, the channel that brings me The Dean Smith
Show?!
Not likely bub.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1158 | not bad | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Thu Nov 11 1993 17:00 | 7 |
| I'm just trying to look out fer your well being and help you avoid the
angst of NBA.
One of the better parts of Sports South is how they run almost all the
southern college coaches shows, both football and basketball.
TTom
|
| 10.1159 | One of a kind station | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Nov 11 1993 17:05 | 7 |
| > One of the better parts of Sports South is how they run almost all the
> southern college coaches shows, both football and basketball.
Absolutely.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1160 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Nov 11 1993 17:07 | 7 |
| > One of the better parts of Sports South is how they run almost all the
^^^^^^^
> southern college coaches shows
you gotta be kidding!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1161 | good un | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Thu Nov 11 1993 17:25 | 11 |
| No sir. I mean it with a straight face.
I'm speaking as a fan and as someone who is often interested in details
about certain teams on certain occasions.
Among the teams you can follow because of Sports South are Alabama,
Florida St, Tennessee and Miami. I don't know about your sources but in
Charlotte the media is dominated by a bunch of Tar Heels who think
diversity is talking about both Dean Smith and Mack Brown.
TTom
|
| 10.1162 | SportsSouth is a nice addition to your cable menu, no doubt | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Nov 11 1993 17:34 | 8 |
| It was fun watching Terry Bowden's show after the Auburn 'W' over
Florida. Not only did it offer significant game footage that the rest of
the country wouldn't see because of the probation, but Terry was plenty
fired up about several run-in's with Spurrier, who I'm starting to
think of as a whiner.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1163 | lottery change | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Thu Nov 11 1993 19:36 | 17 |
| Article: 9782
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA announces new lottery plan
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:21:28 EST
NEW YORK (UPI) -- The National Basketball Association Board of
Governors voted Thursday to adopt a new modified lottery system that
will increase the chances of the teams with the worst records winning
one of the first three selections in the draft.
The modified system also would decrease the chances of the teams with
the best records in the lottery gaining the top picks.
The new system increases the chances of the team with the worst
record from 16.7 per cent to 25 per cent and decreases the chances of
the team with the best record from 1.5 per cent to 0.5 per cent.
The new system involves changing the combinations to make them more
favorable to the poorer teams.
|
| 10.1164 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Nov 11 1993 19:40 | 3 |
| any details??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1165 | more will follow, hopefully | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Thu Nov 11 1993 19:52 | 15 |
| Just that article.
It's gotta be a different number of balls. Right now the worst gets 11
and the best gets 1 - lottery teams, that is.
Doing a little math makes it sound like the worst gets 50 balls and the
best get 1 with about a difference of 5 between the teams.
I'm sure more will come outta this.
It still does nothing to insure either that the best of the lottery teams
doesn't win the first pick nor that teams won't tank it to improve their
standings.
TTom
|
| 10.1166 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Thu Nov 11 1993 21:21 | 11 |
|
You guys actually watch those coaches shows where some peanut brained local tv
sports announcer asks the coach tough questions like...
"So, tell us about that 2nd and 1 play in the 1st quarter"
I swear there must be a line of 40 coaches outside the same studio waiting to
get in and speak their 2 cents and collect their 50 pieces of gold.
Metz
|
| 10.1167 | | FORTY2::FOWLERM | Workers of the world unite | Fri Nov 12 1993 07:48 | 7 |
| Stupid question alert (I'm new to this):
How does the NBA draft work? i.e., what's a lottery pick?
Oh the shame of my ignorance. 8-)
Mike
|
| 10.1168 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Nov 12 1993 11:50 | 26 |
| Mike, your mind is addled after all tha boxing stuff :-)
The wasy the NBA draft used to work is that the team with the worst
record got the first pick in the draft. At one point that led to
some charges that a team might have taken it easy at the end of the
season so it could get the first pick.
The NBA then took all the non-playoff teams and held a lottery for the
order of the draft for those teams. First cut at it had the 7 (before
later expansion) team logos selected at random and that determined the
order of the draft.
Next modification was to ensure that the 3 worst teams drafted no worse
than 4-5-6. So they picked 3 logos and then the rest were ranked in
inverse order of record.
Modification after that was a weighed lottery. 11 non-playoff teams.
The worst team got 11 logos in the bin, 2nd worst 10 and so on. Again
the worst 3 teams could do no worse than 4-5-6, as above.
Last year, Orlando had the best record of the lottery teams and ended
up woth the first pick in the draft. So the NBA has now made the odds
even more in favor of the worse teams. Not sure what the details are.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1169 | subjective | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:31 | 14 |
| Metz,
If'n you got a problem with coaches shows, I'd suggest you not watch
them.
A lot of the coaches show are amateurish and of course it's an All Homer
Cast. But it's often fun to watch them after the losses. You best believe
that the week after any Tar Heel loss I'm all over the Mack or Dean
shows. And if'n you just watch the clips, you'd swear that they won big!.
Maybe it's one of those things like Ren and Stimpy or Beavis and
Butthead. You either like 'em or you don't.
TTom
|
| 10.1170 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:33 | 7 |
| Nah, Bevis and Butthead are intelligent compared to those coaches
shows.
Hth,
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1171 | heh-eh heh-eh | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:44 | 8 |
| Crazy,
I knew I was treading on thin ice with the B&B boys.
Actually, come to think of it Beavis does look a lot like Coach K and
Dean certainly has more than a casual resemblance to Butthead.
TTom
|
| 10.1172 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | NewJoisey-WeMindVeryMuchIfYouVote... | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:47 | 13 |
| 10.1173 | illegal? | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:51 | 8 |
| What I don't understand is the lotteries are agin the law in these here
parts. How is it that Charlotte's in on this and how come they were
allowed to keep LJ the year they won it?
Now W.Va., there's a place with a legal lottery. How about the Charleston
Hornets?
TTom
|
| 10.1174 | | 16421::HEISER | dweller on the threshold | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:52 | 2 |
| Crisp, if the Hawks were any good, you'd be all over them like stink on
$*it.
|
| 10.1175 | Amen | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Fri Nov 12 1993 12:54 | 0 |
| 10.1176 | Keep in mind I lived in Boston and hated the C's ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Fri Nov 12 1993 13:43 | 7 |
| > if the Hawks were any good ...
That's a problem I'm not likely to have for a very long time.
Like winning the lottery, I'll worry about it when it happens.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1177 | FYI - determining a team's wins for a season | 16421::HEISER | dweller on the threshold | Tue Nov 16 1993 15:40 | 25 |
| There's a simple algorithm for tracking the number of wins a team is on
pace to win. This can be done throughout the year.
The .500 mark of the NBA season is 41. In the NBA, a team is expected
to win at home and lose on the road due to the homecourt advantage. In
this algorithm, a team gets 1 point for a road win and a -1 for a home
loss. Add the total number of points to 41 to project the team's wins
for the season.
For example, (I'd use the Knicks but I'm not sure what their home-away
status is) the Suns have played 5 games: 3 on the road, 2 at home.
They lost 2 on the road and won 1 so that yields a +1. They won both
home games yielding a 0 (it's expected). After 5 games, they are on
pace for a 42 win season (41 + 1).
Look at last year's Suns that won 62 games. They lost 6 games at home
(-6 points) and led the NBA in winning 27 on the road (+27). 41+27-6 =
62.
I've never seen this algorithm fail and it's used by the media and
Los Wages(tm) as well.
Feel free to project the Knicks current pace.
Mike
|
| 10.1178 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Tue Nov 16 1993 18:09 | 12 |
|
> I've never seen this algorithm fail and it's used by the media and
> Los Wages(tm) as well.
Pretty heavy duty math being used out there:
a - b = a - b
Better notify the Nobel Prize committee about this one. Las Vegas
and the media deserve one for discovering this gem.
Mike
|
| 10.1180 | | 16421::HEISER | dweller on the threshold | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:20 | 6 |
| Hey you idjits, not everyone is aware of this. It was just posted here
as an FYI. It was originally posted in CELTICS because people are
speculating a 70-win season for the Knickerboxers.
I'm still awaiting your UCLA crow note over in 50. That would thrill
me much more.
|
| 10.1181 | Isiah breaks hand on Laimbeer | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:29 | 7 |
| Back to basketball,
It seems Isiah Thomas and Bill Laimbeer got into a spat at practice and a
hockey match broke out. Isiah punched Laimbeer in the haid and broke his
hand. He'll be out for I think they said 4-8 weeks.
TTom
|
| 10.1182 | :^( | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:37 | 9 |
| I'm personally outraged (and just a little bit hurt) that nobody
bothered to tell me that Matt Wenstrom stuck with the C's. I had to
read his statistics in todays USA Today (2 games played, all 0's after
that).
Thanks for nuttin,
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1183 | nothin for nothin | 16421::HEISER | dweller on the threshold | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1184 | faux | HBAHBA::HAAS | No sir. I don't like it. | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:41 | 10 |
| Now hold on there, pal (not quite up to Mister, yet).
This aint just revisionary, it's a_out-and-out pile o' the doo.
For the record, Knorr was notified, proof was provided and stats
communicated.
I'll see your outrage and and raise you indignation.
TTom
|
| 10.1185 | This just adds to my indignation. :^| | RHETT::KNORR | Dean > Wooden | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:50 | 6 |
| All right already. It was TTom, a_Wufpack main, who had to tell me.
:^(
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1186 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Nov 16 1993 19:59 | 3 |
| Why is a guy who admittedly hates the NBA and doesn't even follow the
local team whining about not getting info on a bench player from a team
hundreds of miles away?
|
| 10.1187 | trivia | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Thu Nov 18 1993 14:27 | 6 |
| Name the only 2 guards in NBA history who have averaged 20 points or
more and 10 assists or more over the course of a season.
Hint: They both have Johnson for a last name.
Magic Johnson and Kevin Johnson
|
| 10.1188 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Nov 18 1993 14:31 | 2 |
| I didn't realize Kevin Johnson was ever able to play over the course of
a season.
|
| 10.1189 | check your facts, man | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Thu Nov 18 1993 14:34 | 1 |
| Mac, he never missed more than 8 games in a season until last year.
|
| 10.1190 | I'm surprised Oscar or Cousy wasn't on the list | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Nov 18 1993 15:12 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1191 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Thu Nov 18 1993 15:58 | 5 |
|
especially considering Oscar average a triple double one year. Maybe his
ppg were less than 20????????
anyways Mike isn't that about the 5th time you've posted that little item?
|
| 10.1192 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | Carol's wearing maternity clothes | Thu Nov 18 1993 16:04 | 4 |
| Yabbut anybody know what year they started recording assists?
?
|
| 10.1193 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | Ain't no cure for the overseed blues | Thu Nov 18 1993 16:04 | 6 |
|
They had mainly assists back in O's day. Not these Western Conference,
I-looked-at-the-ball-and-my-name-is-MAgic-so-give-me-an-assist jobs
they have now. Right Nazz?
brews
|
| 10.1194 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Nov 18 1993 16:14 | 3 |
| Didn't Hardaway do 20-10?
Ken
|
| 10.1195 | a few more, Mike... | CNTROL::KING | | Thu Nov 18 1993 16:55 | 15 |
| You need to add a few Mike,
you forgot a slouch named Robertson
Nate Archibald 72-73 Kc-Om 34.0 pts 11.38 ast
Oscar Robertson 60-61 Cinc 30.5 pts 9.72 ast 10.13 reb
** Oscar Robertson 61-62 Cinc 30.8 pts 11.38 ast 12.47 reb
Oscar Robertson 62-63 Cinc 28.3 pts 9.48 ast 10.44 reb
* Oscar Robertson 63-64 Cinc 31.4 pts 10.99 ast 9.91 reb
* Oscar Robertson 64-65 Cinc 30.4 pts 11.48 ast 8.99 reb
* Oscar Robertson 65-66 Cinc 31.3 pts 11.14 ast 7.71 reb
* Oscar Robertson 66-67 Cinc 30.5 pts 10.70 ast 6.15 reb
** Averaged triple double for season and 30 pts/10 ast
* 30 pts/10 ast
|
| 10.1196 | those guys don't count anyway | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Thu Nov 18 1993 17:01 | 1 |
| Yeah my apologies. My source was incorrect.
|
| 10.1197 | | GWEN::ASHE | Les Nessman live at the turkey drop | Thu Nov 18 1993 17:17 | 1 |
| Probably had a Johnson fetish...
|
| 10.1199 | I adhere to the strict letter of the law | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics win 1993-94 NBA Title | Thu Nov 18 1993 17:39 | 5 |
| The rule for recording an assist hasn't changed over the years; the
interpretation has become "relaxed" in some cities. I can assure you
that is not the case in Boston.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1200 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Nov 18 1993 17:57 | 4 |
| 10.1201 | | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Thu Nov 18 1993 18:43 | 4 |
| Mac, that was a typo. You'll notice I typed 5 instead of 4. So what's
a decade?
Tommy, all of them!
|
| 10.1202 | top '94 rookies thus far | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Fri Nov 19 1993 19:46 | 16 |
| Player POS G MIN PTS REBS ASTS STLS BLKS TO TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score
bradley,shawn C 6 185 67 34 11 10 28 17 150 30.8 11.2 5.67 1.83 6.33 130.
webber,chris PF 3 100 47 28 8 4 8 9 95 33.3 15.7 9.33 2.67 4 127.
vanexel,nick PG 6 228 86 23 42 9 0 9 160 38 14.3 3.83 7 1.5 103.
radja,dino PF 6 174 91 45 13 5 8 6 162 29 15.2 7.5 2.17 2.17 91.5
jones,popeye PF 5 143 45 52 15 0 5 10 117 28.6 9 10.4 3 1 89.2
mashburn,jamal SF 5 184 109 23 12 8 3 14 155 36.8 21.8 4.6 2.4 2.2 87.8
hurley,bobby PG 5 131 40 10 36 6 0 11 92 26.2 8 2 7.2 1.2 86.2
hardaway,anferne PG 5 154 45 19 19 6 2 17 91 30.8 9 3.8 3.8 1.6 74.4
wilson,trevor SF 5 126 51 28 12 5 1 6 97 25.2 10.2 5.6 2.4 1.2 67.7
kukoc,toni SF 5 130 70 26 15 2 1 11 114 26 14 5.2 3 .6 66.7
brown,p.j. PF 6 158 44 39 4 4 6 5 97 26.3 7.33 6.5 .667 1.67 61.6
kidd,warren PF 6 186 48 46 4 2 5 8 105 31 8 7.67 .667 1.17 61.0
baker,vin PF 6 109 48 28 3 2 11 6 92 18.2 8 4.67 .5 2.17 59.5
mills,chris SF 6 157 59 21 14 4 3 11 101 26.2 9.83 3.5 2.33 1.17 57.4
morningstar,darr C 5 107 31 27 8 4 2 5 72 21.4 6.2 5.4 1.6 1.2 56.8
|
| 10.1203 | top 20 point guards thus far | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Fri Nov 19 1993 20:00 | 21 |
| Player POS G MIN PTS REBS ASTS STLS BLKS TO TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score
stockton,john PG 6 211 85 24 76 17 0 20 202 35.2 14.2 4 12.7 2.83 163.
anderson,kenny PG 6 244 116 34 62 15 0 9 227 40.7 19.3 5.67 10.3 2.5 153.
blaylock,mookie PG 5 190 60 28 44 12 3 18 147 38 12 5.6 8.8 3 141.
skiles,scott PG 5 188 62 20 55 7 1 14 145 37.6 12.4 4 11 1.6 133.
price,mark PG 6 229 111 20 60 10 1 14 202 38.2 18.5 3.33 10 1.83 132.
johnson,kevin PG 5 187 120 20 47 6 1 18 194 37.4 24 4 9.4 1.4 130.
smith,steve PG 4 128 65 25 32 5 3 12 130 32 16.3 6.25 8 2 129.
jackson,mark PG 5 183 75 18 50 8 1 19 152 36.6 15 3.6 10 1.8 129.
thomas,isiah PG 6 207 93 19 62 6 0 26 180 34.5 15.5 3.17 10.3 1 120.
strickland,rod PG 5 157 74 15 43 10 0 17 142 31.4 14.8 3 8.6 2 118.
douglas,sherman PG 6 229 91 12 51 13 0 23 167 38.2 15.2 2 8.5 2.17 115.
bogues,muggsy PG 5 176 43 22 50 4 0 7 119 35.2 8.6 4.4 10 .8 113.
hornacek,jeff PG 6 228 120 21 33 15 1 16 190 38 20 3.5 5.5 2.67 111.
williams,micheal PG 4 133 58 10 34 3 2 11 107 33.3 14.5 2.5 8.5 1.25 105.
murdock,eric PG 6 178 69 18 43 12 0 14 142 29.7 11.5 3 7.17 2 104.
vanexel,nick PG 6 228 86 23 42 9 0 9 160 38 14.3 3.83 7 1.5 103.
payton,gary PG 5 156 70 14 26 11 1 6 122 31.2 14 2.8 5.2 2.4 95.8
abdul-rauf,mahmo PG 5 190 129 15 20 10 0 11 174 38 25.8 3 4 2 94.4
richardson,pooh PG 5 171 55 18 41 1 0 18 115 34.2 11 3.6 8.2 .2 90.8
adams,michael PG 5 156 57 16 33 4 1 12 111 31.2 11.4 3.2 6.6 1 87.7
|
| 10.1204 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Fri Nov 19 1993 20:03 | 3 |
| BJ Armstrong didn't make the top 25?
Chip_BEARS_Bach
|
| 10.1205 | | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Fri Nov 19 1993 20:07 | 1 |
| He was 22nd after Hurley.
|
| 10.1206 | top 20 overall | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Fri Nov 19 1993 20:07 | 21 |
| Player POS G MIN PTS REBS ASTS STLS BLKS TO TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score
olajuwon,hakeem C 5 207 145 75 23 9 20 19 272 41.4 29 15 4.6 5.8 202.
barkley,charles PF 5 211 138 67 24 15 7 11 251 42.2 27.6 13.4 4.8 4.4 178.
malone,karl PF 6 243 158 84 27 12 12 12 293 40.5 26.3 14 4.5 4 172.
robinson,david C 6 233 166 51 16 11 30 21 274 38.8 27.7 8.5 2.67 6.83 172.
stockton,john PG 6 211 85 24 76 17 0 20 202 35.2 14.2 4 12.7 2.83 163.
mutombo,dikembe C 5 167 71 71 11 5 22 18 180 33.4 14.2 14.2 2.2 5.4 161.
anderson,kenny PG 6 244 116 34 62 15 0 9 227 40.7 19.3 5.67 10.3 2.5 153.
kemp,shawn PF 5 165 89 53 19 10 11 20 182 33 17.8 10.6 3.8 4.2 146.
coleman,derrick PF 6 228 158 71 22 6 11 18 268 38 26.3 11.8 3.67 2.83 141.
blaylock,mookie PG 5 190 60 28 44 12 3 18 147 38 12 5.6 8.8 3 141.
drexler,clyde SG 5 188 105 44 31 6 5 14 191 37.6 21 8.8 6.2 2.2 134.
skiles,scott PG 5 188 62 20 55 7 1 14 145 37.6 12.4 4 11 1.6 133.
price,mark PG 6 229 111 20 60 10 1 14 202 38.2 18.5 3.33 10 1.83 132.
o'neal,shaquille C 5 166 155 43 11 3 15 13 227 33.2 31 8.6 2.2 3.6 131.
bradley,shawn C 6 185 67 34 11 10 28 17 150 30.8 11.2 5.67 1.83 6.33 130.
johnson,kevin PG 5 187 120 20 47 6 1 18 194 37.4 24 4 9.4 1.4 130.
smith,steve PG 4 128 65 25 32 5 3 12 130 32 16.3 6.25 8 2 129.
jackson,mark PG 5 183 75 18 50 8 1 19 152 36.6 15 3.6 10 1.8 129.
webber,chris PF 3 100 47 28 8 4 8 9 95 33.3 15.7 9.33 2.67 4 127.
laettner,christi PF 4 136 83 33 19 6 4 18 145 34 20.8 8.25 4.75 2.5 124.
|
| 10.1207 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Fri Nov 19 1993 20:15 | 9 |
|
Something is seriously wrong with your scoring system when a rookie averaging
over 20 points per game with decent numbers in the other categories ranks as
low as Mashburn does...
A Monster Mash fan,
Metz
|
| 10.1208 | the Heiser formula is FLAWLESS! | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Fri Nov 19 1993 20:56 | 4 |
| No, but it takes all categories into consideration. Monster Mash is
more offensive-minded while the Man-Child has a more balanced game.
The Man-Child scores 6 less points per game, but hauls down 5 more boards,
has .2 more assists, and 2 more steals and blocks per game.
|
| 10.1209 | Doing the Monster Mash! | DYPSS1::ROPER | MAC IS BACK! | Sun Nov 21 1993 14:00 | 3 |
| MASH will take home ROY honors at the end of the season.
- Rope
|
| 10.1210 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Nov 22 1993 14:28 | 7 |
| Isn't this the guy you said would be a stiff?
<<< Note 10.1202 by 16421::HEISER "but I *like* it!!!" >>>
-< top '94 rookies thus far >-
Player POS G MIN PTS REBS ASTS STLS BLKS TO TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Score
bradley,shawn C 6 185 67 34 11 10 28 17 150 30.8 11.2 5.67 1.83 6.33 130.
|
| 10.1211 | | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Mon Nov 22 1993 14:33 | 9 |
| > Isn't this the guy you said would be a stiff?
yeah after 6 whole games, he's sure making me look bad. And they
complain about his conditioning now... he's never played more than 30
games in a season in his life.
He's at least 2 years away from taking advantage of his size and any
potential he may have. Webber and Mash will take over his spot in the
rankings by Jan. 1.
|
| 10.1212 | Standings thus far | 16421::HEISER | but I *like* it!!! | Tue Nov 30 1993 16:36 | 40 |
| 10.1213 | Needed:Injured player reports | FSCORE::LEMMON | | Tue Nov 30 1993 18:45 | 11 |
| Is it possible for anyone to post team injury reports here? Sometimes
I hear of a player being injured but would like to know how serious it
is and how long they will be out.
Some of the bigger names I'd like to hear more about are Pippen,
Webber, Isiah. Are there any others of significance?? The local
papers here tell me nothing.
Thanks,
Phil
|
| 10.1214 | | 7806::ASHE | What happened to Oran Juice Jones? | Tue Nov 30 1993 18:50 | 5 |
| Pippen - out til mid-December
Thomas - out til early December
Webber - day to day
Mullin - out 2 more weeks
|
| 10.1215 | Bulls 132 Suns 113 | CNTROL::CHILDS | I am airless, a vacuum child | Wed Dec 01 1993 11:11 | 6 |
| <<< Note 10.1214 by 7806::ASHE "What happened to Oran Juice Jones?" >>>
>> Pippen - out til mid-December
The Suns wish this one were true............
|
| 10.1216 | New faces in Detroit: Do they play? | FSCORE::LEMMON | | Wed Dec 01 1993 12:05 | 8 |
| Has anyone seen the Pistons play lately? They have alot of new faces
and I'm wondering if any of them are playing, especially Hunter,
Houston, Liberty, and Macon. Could anyone update me on their status?
Is there any truth to the rumour that Bad Boy Bill Laimbeer will
announce his retirement sometime today?
Phil
|
| 10.1217 | | 7806::ASHE | What happened to Oran Juice Jones? | Wed Dec 01 1993 12:54 | 9 |
| re: Mike - just typed what USA Today said...
Don't know about Laimbeer, but it wouldn't shock me.
Hunter is the starting point guard while Thomas is out. Houston and
Macon are battling for the 4th guard spot. Liberty isn't seeing a lot
of time right now. Anderson and Wood are getting most of the time
off the bench. Mills would take Laimbeer's spot.
|
| 10.1218 | Magic is off in the clouds somewhere ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Dec 01 1993 13:08 | 11 |
| Anybody catch Magic Johnson's interview on ESPN/2 last night? Very
bizarre to say the least.
He sez the reason the players didn't want him back in the NBA (which is
the reason he's not playing) is cause they didn't want the Lakers to
win anymore Titles, not cause they were afraid of getting HIV.
And this guy is supposed to be educating people?
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1219 | | 7806::ASHE | What happened to Oran Juice Jones? | Wed Dec 01 1993 13:13 | 3 |
| Matt Wenstrom scored a basket last night. I know they played Atlanta,
but I wanted to make sure we kept you informed...
|
| 10.1220 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is one year old!!! | Wed Dec 01 1993 13:20 | 4 |
| re: Laimbeer
It appears that he will call it quits at a press conference today. Not sure if
it is immediatly, or at the end of the season.
|
| 10.1221 | Matt scores a deuce eh? That *is* good news ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Dec 01 1993 13:32 | 6 |
| Walt, that's the kind of response I'd expect from_a SPORTS compatriot.
Thanks!, and keep up the good work!
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1222 | | DUGROS::ROSS | Drop the leash... | Wed Dec 01 1993 14:10 | 1 |
| Remember James Worthy? He was awesome back when he used to play ball.
|
| 10.1223 | Yup,..I remember | AKOCOA::PETERSON | Functionally illiterate | Wed Dec 01 1993 14:45 | 4 |
|
...Yeah, the hooker(s) he got nabbed with thought he was awesome too.
...Mel
|
| 10.1224 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Dec 01 1993 14:51 | 6 |
| 10.1225 | DougRoss needs a new Schtick. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Wed Dec 01 1993 15:16 | 10 |
| re: DUGROS::ROSS
> Remember James Worthy? He was awesome back when he used to play
> ball.
Ain't it about time for you to head over to 21 and remind everyone what
a stiff Eric Montross is?
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1226 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Dec 01 1993 15:41 | 4 |
| 10.1227 | | 7806::ASHE | Heavy cloud but, no rain... | Wed Dec 01 1993 20:45 | 2 |
| Should have been in your paper though ACC...
|
| 10.1228 | It was all a Magic act | DUGROS::ROSS | Drop the leash... | Sat Dec 04 1993 00:27 | 14 |
| Are the Celtics still selling out the Garden these days? I only ask
because I read in the local paper today that the once mighty Lakers are
now ranked 26th (!!!) in the league for attendance and only got 10,000
for a game the other night.
I guess all those diehard Laker fans must have had trouble getting babysitters.
Jack Nicholson replaced by Woody Harrelson...
Laker Girls replaced by Roseanne Arnold, Bea Arthur, and Estelle Getty...
Dyan Cannon replaced by Pia Zadora...
Rambis Youth replaced by Divac Dorks...
Arsenio Hall replaced by Arsenio Hall... :-)
Prediction: Jerry Buss will sell the Lakers before the end of next year.
|
| 10.1229 | | LAGUNA::MAY_BR | All products 100% buzzword compliant | Tue Dec 07 1993 14:25 | 6 |
| I had training in LA recently and seven of us decided to go to the
Clips-Suns game while we were there. We walked up to the ticket office
at GAME TIME and got seven seats next to each other in the FIRST ROW of
the loge. These were great seats, couldn't believe it.
brews
|
| 10.1230 | who wants to see the Suns? ;-) | HBAHBA::HAAS | Party when you can, rock til you drop | Tue Dec 07 1993 14:26 | 0 |
| 10.1231 | | 7806::ASHE | While you're gnipping, he's gnopping... | Tue Dec 07 1993 14:41 | 2 |
| The name the "round mound o' rebound" is STOOPID anyway...
|
| 10.1232 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | Homer,Plato,Voltaire,DanReeves | Tue Dec 07 1993 15:27 | 6 |
| It's sad to see Barkley become just like that little cartoon
character in the corner of the screen at the end of his latest sneaker
commercial. He used to be a breath of fresh air in Philly but now he's
just an overcommercialized patented bad boy type.
/Don
|
| 10.1233 | The baton was passed in Hot Shots... | 7806::ASHE | While you're gnipping, he's gnopping... | Tue Dec 07 1993 15:52 | 1 |
| Just like Laimbeer...
|
| 10.1234 | hottest ticket in town | 16421::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Tue Dec 07 1993 16:12 | 1 |
| Phoenix phans have to go to LA just to see the team.
|
| 10.1235 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Dec 07 1993 18:50 | 11 |
| Jack Nicholson has been a season ticket holder at the Forum since
the early 70s. He still goes to the games.
Attendance is down throughout the league this year. Buss won't sell
the team; it's his toy and he doesn't need the money. He's also
smart enough to know that with Jerry West running things they won't
stay down for long.
Ken
|
| 10.1236 | Some players can't be judged strictly by numbers. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Dec 07 1993 18:57 | 7 |
| Ken,
How's my main main George Lynch doing? Spare me the USA Today
regurgitation, I want the skinny!
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1237 | Lynch Update. | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Dec 07 1993 19:09 | 14 |
| Chris, the Lakers are bringing Lynch along slowly. They're projecting
him to be a small forward. The problem is that at the moment Doug
Christie is the starting small forward and he's looking very good.
He had 33 Saturday night and 21 Sunday night. When Christie gets a
breather, Worthy takes his place. That doesn't leave many minutes
for Lynch. However, when he has played, he has done well. His best
game was against the lowly Mavs last week where he scored 16 points
in 18 minutes.
I expect he'll get more time as the season goes on, though some of
his PT might have to come at the power forward spot, where Elden Campbell
is currently struggling.
Ken
|
| 10.1238 | ACChris showing interest in the NBA? | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Dec 07 1993 19:20 | 4 |
| 10.1239 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Tue Dec 07 1993 19:32 | 19 |
|
What's the scoop with Mahburn and his disgust for the offense being run by
Buckner in dallas? Last I heard he was getting pissed because the idiot
(buckner) had them running a 1/2 court game that was fully diagrammed out like
a dance step and if you weren't in place A by time B you got pulled.
The Mash said the team looked like a bunch of automatons (my word not his) and
this style was totally against his tyle of play and the slamma-jamma style of
the NBA and why the hell did they draft him to play in an offense like this...
Couple this with the start of a game last week where Dallas lost the opening
tap, Miami went down and scored a duece and the coach immediately called a time
out thus wasting a TO before Dallas ever even had posession of the ball once...
Let JJ and Mash go with the flow and the team will be a lot better than they
are currently...
Metz
|
| 10.1240 | Relative to Dean, Bob pales in producing successful protoge's | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Dec 07 1993 19:39 | 4 |
| Metz, whadaya want from a BobDisciple?!
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1241 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Thu Dec 09 1993 15:31 | 8 |
| USA Today's NBA writer (David Dupree) identifies the best defensive
guard tandems in the NBA.
1- Blaylock-Augmon, Atlanta ("size and strength")
2- Payton-McMillan, Seattle ("pressure ball and overplay")
3- Starks-Rivers, NY ("physical defense at its best")
4- Majerle-Johnson, Phoenix ("quick and smart")
5- Thomas-Dumars, Detroit ("smart, give up their bodies")
|
| 10.1242 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Dec 09 1993 15:56 | 2 |
| Marjerle-Johnson smart? Well, I guess Johnson was smart when he ran
for the locker room after taking a swipe at Rivers.
|
| 10.1243 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Thu Dec 09 1993 16:18 | 8 |
|
Lots of basketball knowledge in that guy when the starting guard lineup for
Seattle is Payton-Gill...Nate usually comes in for gary and Pierce for Gill so
the time the McMillin and Payton tandem spends on the floor together is
negligible....
Metz
|
| 10.1244 | Plus 12+ppg, around 10 apg... | GWEN::ASHE | I ring my 'lil bell on the sidewalk... | Thu Dec 09 1993 16:32 | 3 |
| Blaylock one of the tops in the league? Who would have said that?
Hear that MikeyC?
|
| 10.1245 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | J. Elders, you got it RIGHT Babeee!! | Thu Dec 09 1993 17:35 | 5 |
|
Couldn't been me Walt, the high priest of hoops himself ACChrisp said I
know nothing about basketbaLL.........
MIKE
|
| 10.1246 | | GWEN::ASHE | I ring my 'lil bell on the sidewalk... | Thu Dec 09 1993 17:49 | 3 |
| Yea that was back around .598 or so... you've probably lost it since
then...
|
| 10.1247 | From the bench! | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu Dec 09 1993 18:57 | 8 |
| RE: -1
ACC Chris has obviously never seen a Shamoo game with you
running the offense, Mike.
JS
|
| 10.1248 | lasted night | HBAHBA::HAAS | Party when you can, rock til you drop | Fri Dec 10 1993 13:41 | 17 |
| some doing:
Dennis Rodman has switched from a blond to a red head. The Hawks beat the
Spurs, anyhoo, 105-95 for their 12th straight.
Shaq Diesel did his best Wilt imitation yet with 49 points as the Magic
somehow still managed to lose to the Pacers, 111-105.
Houston beat Miami with the play of the night. Vern Maxwell hit a
jump-turn-shoot 3 pointer to put it into OT and the Rockets went on to
win 115-109.
The Sonics drubbed the Mavs, 125-93. Saw a_intersting replay where Nate
made a steal and had a break away but waited for Kendall Gill to catch up
to give him the dunk.
TTom
|
| 10.1249 | Bobby Hurley's probably not gonna play anymore (imo) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Mon Dec 13 1993 11:21 | 16 |
|
Yabbut over in Sacramento, Bobby Hurley is in critical but stable
condition following a auto accident early thisted AM. Apparently,
according to the radion report I heard, he was driving home after the
Kings game and got into an accident with a car driving without
headlites on.
They said he was thrown from the car and was found ~100 feet away, face
down. He's suffered several broken ribs as well as having both lungs
collapsed.
I remain,
::Splats occasional reporter,
Kev
|
| 10.1250 | Nah, he should be ready by the playoffs | AKOCOA::BREEN | Tim Fox, Tim Golden | Mon Dec 13 1993 12:17 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1251 | Top 12 rookies | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Mon Dec 13 1993 16:01 | 13 |
| Team G MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
WEBBER,C 13 400 199 122 34 13 33 401 30.77 15.31 9.385 2.615 3.538 119.5 27.31
HARDAWAY,A 14 489 174 72 76 28 12 362 34.93 12.43 5.143 5.429 2.857 111.5 23
BRADLEY,S 15 393 116 84 32 17 45 294 26.2 7.733 5.6 2.133 4.133 99.67 15.47
VAN EXEL 17 0 14 59 109 26 12 220 0 .8235 3.471 6.412 2.235 92.44 10.71
KUKOC,T 14 412 208 59 51 19 5 342 29.43 14.86 4.214 3.643 1.714 82.00 22.71
MASHBURN,J 16 563 324 80 42 19 6 471 35.19 20.25 5 2.625 1.563 81.07 27.88
RADJA,D 16 459 239 116 25 12 16 408 28.69 14.94 7.25 1.563 1.75 79.57 23.75
JONES,P 16 458 107 134 30 11 10 292 28.63 6.688 8.375 1.875 1.313 72.97 16.94
HURLEY,B 15 413 121 27 92 10 1 251 27.53 8.067 1.8 6.133 .7333 71.60 16
WILSON,T 5 126 51 28 12 5 1 97 25.2 10.2 5.6 2.4 1.2 67.29 18.2
MILLS,C 15 418 147 59 35 10 10 261 27.87 9.8 3.933 2.333 1.333 61.00 16.07
HUNTER,L 14 383 135 30 50 10 1 226 27.36 9.643 2.143 3.571 .7857 55.79 15.36
|
| 10.1252 | Top 10 point guards | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Mon Dec 13 1993 16:01 | 11 |
| Team G MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
STOCKTON,J 16 569 228 54 195 41 1 519 35.56 14.25 3.375 12.19 2.625 154.3 29.81
BLAYLOCK,M 15 558 191 93 144 39 10 477 37.2 12.73 6.2 9.6 3.267 153.1 28.53
ANDERSON,K 16 604 285 69 148 33 3 538 37.75 17.81 4.313 9.25 2.25 134.8 31.38
THOMAS,I 7 246 119 25 75 7 0 226 35.14 17 3.571 10.71 1 126.3 31.29
JACKSON,M 14 515 189 65 131 19 3 407 36.79 13.5 4.643 9.357 1.571 124.2 27.5
JOHNSON,K 14 505 311 35 131 21 1 499 36.07 22.21 2.5 9.357 1.571 123.8 34.07
SKILES,S 14 550 176 43 145 14 1 379 39.29 12.57 3.071 10.36 1.071 117.9 26
SPREWELL,L 15 675 293 74 60 33 22 482 45 19.53 4.933 4 3.667 117.0 28.47
BOGUES,M 15 500 121 65 150 15 1 352 33.33 8.067 4.333 10 1.067 116.0 22.4
STRICKLAND, 16 489 249 46 129 29 5 458 30.56 15.56 2.875 8.063 2.125 115.8 26.5
|
| 10.1253 | Top 20 overall | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Mon Dec 13 1993 16:02 | 21 |
| Team G MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
OLAJUWON,A 17 700 431 218 55 29 68 801 41.18 25.35 12.82 3.235 5.706 176.1 41.41
ROBINSON,D 17 663 469 152 62 34 67 784 39 27.59 8.941 3.647 5.941 167.9 40.18
BARKLEY,C 14 553 360 175 70 31 15 651 39.5 25.71 12.5 5 3.286 158.1 43.21
STOCKTON,J 16 569 228 54 195 41 1 519 35.56 14.25 3.375 12.19 2.625 154.3 29.81
BLAYLOCK,M 15 558 191 93 144 39 10 477 37.2 12.73 6.2 9.6 3.267 153.1 28.53
MALONE,K 16 655 414 200 64 27 27 732 40.94 25.88 12.5 4 3.375 151.7 42.38
O'NEAL,S 14 518 389 167 27 10 49 642 37 27.79 11.93 1.929 4.214 146.0 41.64
MUTOMBO,D 15 500 170 197 28 8 68 471 33.33 11.33 13.13 1.867 5.067 144.9 26.33
KEMP,S 14 455 262 148 43 28 29 510 32.5 18.71 10.57 3.071 4.071 138.1 32.36
ANDERSON,K 16 604 285 69 148 33 3 538 37.75 17.81 4.313 9.25 2.25 134.8 31.38
COLEMAN,D 16 584 345 193 51 12 31 632 36.5 21.56 12.06 3.188 2.688 130.8 36.81
THOMAS,I 7 246 119 25 75 7 0 226 35.14 17 3.571 10.71 1 126.3 31.29
GUGLIOTTA,T 15 564 251 138 65 31 13 498 37.6 16.73 9.2 4.333 2.933 125.6 30.27
JACKSON,M 14 515 189 65 131 19 3 407 36.79 13.5 4.643 9.357 1.571 124.2 27.5
JOHNSON,K 14 505 311 35 131 21 1 499 36.07 22.21 2.5 9.357 1.571 123.8 34.07
GRANT,HO 14 526 223 166 41 13 26 469 37.57 15.93 11.86 2.929 2.786 123.5 30.71
MOURNING,A 16 521 356 167 14 12 52 601 32.56 22.25 10.44 .875 4 123.4 33.56
DIVAC,V 17 564 214 180 55 26 28 503 33.18 12.59 10.59 3.235 3.176 122.0 26.41
RODMAN,D 17 680 78 340 39 11 8 476 40 4.588 20 2.294 1.118 120.9 26.88
MCMILLAN,N 14 403 126 58 88 46 5 323 28.79 9 4.143 6.286 3.643 120.2 19.43
|
| 10.1254 | Top 15 point guards over the last 4 years | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Mon Dec 13 1993 16:17 | 108 |
| It's time for once and for all to settle the endless point guard debate.
Here are the point guard stats over the last 4 years (including so far
this season) for the top 15 at the position. Each player receives their
ranking as their score for each year. Lowest score over the 4 years wins.
As you can see, KJ is one of the premier point guards.
Overall Score ( if a player didn't crack the top 15 in a given year, they were
------------- given a rank of 16).
Player 1990-1991 1991-1992 1992-1993 1993-1994 Score
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Stockton 1 1 1 1 4
Tim Hardaway 4 2 2 -- 24
Mookie Blaylock 14 6 3 2 25
Kevin Johnson 6 3 12 6 27
Isiah Thomas 7 12 8 4 31
Michael Williams -- 4 4 12 36
Mark Jackson -- 10 5 5 36
Rod Strickland 11 5 11 11 38
Kenny Anderson -- -- 6 3 41
Michael Adams 3 7 15 -- 41
Mugsy Bogues -- 9 7 10 42
Mark Price 5 14 13 13 45
Scott Skiles 15 -- 9 8 48
Pooh Richardson 8 8 -- 15 48
Magic Johnson 2 -- -- -- 50
Nate McMillan -- -- -- 7 55
Sherman Douglas 12 -- -- 11 55
Steve Smith -- -- -- 7 55
Jeff Hornacek -- -- 10 14 56
Alvin Robertson 9 15 -- -- 56
Latrell Sprewell -- -- -- 9 57
Sedale Threatt -- 11 14 -- 57
Terry Porter 10 -- -- -- 58
Derek Harper 13 -- -- -- 61
Spud Webb -- 13 -- -- 61
Eric Murdock -- -- -- 15 63
1990-1991
Player G MIN REB AST STL BLK PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
STOCKTON,J 82 3103 237 1164 234 16 1413 3064 37.84 17.2 2.9 14.2 3.0 179.2 34.3
JOHNSON,MAG 79 2933 551 989 102 17 1531 3190 37.13 19.4 7.0 12.5 1.5 165.4 38.9
ADAMS,M 66 2346 256 693 147 6 1752 2854 35.55 26.5 3.9 10.5 2.3 154.8 40.9
HARDAWAY,T 82 3215 332 793 214 12 1881 3232 39.21 22.9 4.0 9.7 2.8 151.6 36.7
PRICE,M 16 571 45 166 42 2 271 526 35.69 16.9 2.8 10.4 2.8 145.5 30.1
JOHNSON,K 77 2772 271 781 163 11 1710 2936 36 22.2 3.5 10.1 2.3 145.4 35.9
THOMAS,I 48 1657 160 446 75 10 776 1467 34.52 16.2 3.3 9.3 1.8 125.4 28.8
RICHARDSON,P 82 3154 286 734 131 13 1401 2565 38.46 17.1 3.5 9.0 1.8 124.2 29.5
ROBERTSON,A 81 2598 459 444 246 16 1098 2263 32.07 13.6 5.7 5.5 3.2 123.9 24.7
PORTER,T 81 2665 282 649 158 12 1381 2482 32.90 17.0 3.5 8.0 2.1 121.7 28.5
STRICKLAND,R 58 2076 219 463 117 11 800 1610 35.79 13.8 3.8 8.0 2.2 120.9 25.6
DOUGLAS,S 73 2562 209 624 121 5 1352 2311 35.10 18.5 2.9 8.5 1.7 119.4 29.9
HARPER,D 77 2879 233 548 147 14 1519 2461 37.39 19.7 3.0 7.1 2.1 115.4 29.9
BLAYLOCK,M 72 2585 249 441 169 40 1017 1916 35.90 14.1 3.5 6.1 2.9 115.2 23.7
SKILES,S 79 2714 270 660 89 4 1357 2380 34.35 17.2 3.4 8.4 1.2 111.6 28.9
1991-1992
Player G MIN REB AST STL BLK PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
John Stockton 82 3002 270 1126 244 22 1297 2959 36.61 15.82 3.293 13.73 3.244 178.2 32.84
Tim Hardaway 81 3332 310 807 164 13 1893 3187 41.14 23.37 3.827 9.963 2.185 145.1 37.16
Kevin Johnson 78 2894 292 836 116 23 1536 2803 37.10 19.69 3.744 10.72 1.782 141.5 34.15
Michael Williams 79 2750 282 647 233 22 1188 2372 34.81 15.04 3.570 8.190 3.228 135.9 26.80
Rod Strickland 57 2053 265 491 118 17 787 1678 36.02 13.81 4.649 8.614 2.368 131.2 27.07
Mookie Blaylock 72 2548 269 492 170 40 996 1967 35.39 13.83 3.736 6.833 2.917 120.9 24.40
Michael Adams 78 2795 310 594 145 9 1408 2466 35.83 18.05 3.974 7.615 1.974 119.7 29.64
Pooh Richardson 82 2922 301 685 119 25 1350 2480 35.63 16.46 3.671 8.354 1.756 119.5 28.49
Tyrone Bogues 82 2790 235 743 170 6 730 1884 34.02 8.902 2.866 9.061 2.146 119.1 20.83
Mark Jackson 81 2461 305 694 112 13 916 2040 30.38 11.31 3.765 8.568 1.543 113.6 23.64
Sedale Threatt 82 3070 253 593 168 16 1240 2270 37.44 15.12 3.085 7.232 2.244 113.5 25.44
Isiah Thomas 78 2918 247 560 118 15 1445 2385 37.41 18.53 3.167 7.179 1.705 109.8 28.87
Spud Webb 77 2723 223 547 125 24 1231 2150 35.36 15.99 2.896 7.104 1.935 108.5 25.99
Mark Price 72 2138 173 535 94 12 1247 2061 29.69 17.32 2.403 7.431 1.472 104.1 27.15
Alvin Robertson 82 2463 350 360 210 32 1010 1962 30.04 12.32 4.268 4.390 2.951 103.4 20.98
1992-1993
Player Team PO GP MIN REBT ASST STL BLKS PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
John Stockton UTH G 82 2863 237 987 199 21 1239 2683 34.91 15.11 2.890 12.04 2.683 155.2 30.04
Tim Hardaway GSW G 66 2609 263 699 116 12 1419 2509 39.53 21.5 3.985 10.59 1.939 145.2 36.08
Mookie Blaylock ATL G 80 2820 280 671 203 23 1069 2246 35.25 13.36 3.5 8.388 2.825 130.4 25.25
Michael Williams MIN G 76 2661 273 657 166 23 1151 2270 35.01 15.14 3.592 8.645 2.487 129.9 27.38
Mark Jackson LAC G 82 3117 388 724 136 12 1181 2441 38.01 14.40 4.732 8.829 1.805 126.2 27.96
Kenny Anderson NJN G 55 2010 226 449 96 11 927 1709 36.55 16.85 4.109 8.164 1.945 122.9 29.13
Tyrone Bogues CHA G 81 2833 298 711 161 4 808 1982 34.98 9.975 3.679 8.778 2.037 120.0 22.43
Isiah Thomas DET G 79 2922 232 671 123 18 1391 2435 36.99 17.61 2.937 8.494 1.785 118.8 29.04
Scott Skiles ORL G 78 3086 290 735 86 2 1201 2314 39.56 15.40 3.718 9.423 1.128 118.1 28.54
Jeff Hornacek PHI G 79 2860 342 548 131 21 1511 2553 36.20 19.13 4.329 6.937 1.924 116.5 30.39
Rod Strickland POR G 78 2474 337 559 131 24 1069 2120 31.72 13.71 4.321 7.167 1.987 113.7 25.19
Kevin Johnson PHO G 49 1643 104 384 85 19 791 1383 33.53 16.14 2.122 7.837 2.122 113.5 26.10
Mark Price CLE G 75 2380 201 597 89 11 1365 2263 31.73 18.2 2.68 7.96 1.333 108.1 28.84
Sedale Threatt LAL G 82 2893 273 564 142 11 1235 2225 35.28 15.06 3.329 6.878 1.866 106.9 25.27
Michael Adams WAS G 70 2499 240 526 100 4 1035 1905 35.7 14.79 3.429 7.514 1.486 106.7 25.73
1993-1994
Team G MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank DEC
STOCKTON,J 16 569 228 54 195 41 1 519 35.56 14.25 3.375 12.19 2.625 154.3 29.81
BLAYLOCK,M 15 558 191 93 144 39 10 477 37.2 12.73 6.2 9.6 3.267 153.1 28.53
ANDERSON,K 16 604 285 69 148 33 3 538 37.75 17.81 4.313 9.25 2.25 134.8 31.38
THOMAS,I 7 246 119 25 75 7 0 226 35.14 17 3.571 10.71 1 126.3 31.29
JACKSON,M 14 515 189 65 131 19 3 407 36.79 13.5 4.643 9.357 1.571 124.2 27.5
JOHNSON,K 14 505 311 35 131 21 1 499 36.07 22.21 2.5 9.357 1.571 123.8 34.07
MCMILLAN,N 14 403 126 58 88 46 5 323 28.79 9 4.143 6.286 3.643 120.2 19.43
SKILES,S 14 550 176 43 145 14 1 379 39.29 12.57 3.071 10.36 1.071 117.9 26
SPREWELL,L 15 675 293 74 60 33 22 482 45 19.53 4.933 4 3.667 117.0 28.47
BOGUES,M 15 500 121 65 150 15 1 352 33.33 8.067 4.333 10 1.067 116.0 22.4
STRICKLAND, 16 489 249 46 129 29 5 458 30.56 15.56 2.875 8.063 2.125 115.8 26.5
WILLIAMS,M 15 505 261 47 118 23 7 456 33.67 17.4 3.133 7.867 2 115.7 28.4
PRICE,M 15 535 289 45 126 21 1 482 35.67 19.27 3 8.4 1.467 114.4 30.67
HORNACEK,J 15 571 280 54 93 33 5 465 38.07 18.67 3.6 6.2 2.533 113.0 28.47
RICHARDSON, 15 554 220 53 126 18 2 419 36.93 14.67 3.533 8.4 1.333 110.3 26.6
|
| 10.1255 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Dec 13 1993 16:38 | 1 |
| How was the ranking determined?
|
| 10.1256 | | GWEN::ASHE | I ring my 'lil bell on the sidewalk... | Mon Dec 13 1993 16:44 | 2 |
| Why isn't KJ ranked #1?
|
| 10.1257 | Pray for Bobby and his family... | SALEM::STIG | And every eye shall see | Mon Dec 13 1993 21:01 | 6 |
| re Bobby Hurley... I heard on WEEI that he is still in critical
condition and these next 4-5 days are crucial for him to make it
through alive...Another sad day for the NBA...
stig
|
| 10.1258 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Mon Dec 13 1993 21:05 | 2 |
| He has undergone 8 hours of surgery (wasn't wearing a seatbelt). Both
lungs were collapsed and his trachea was separated from his left lung.
|
| 10.1259 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Mon Dec 13 1993 21:21 | 3 |
| His condition has been upgraded to serious but stable. He's conscious
and breathing with a ventilator. Doctors at UC-Davis say a better
prognosis will be given within 4-5 days.
|
| 10.1260 | Seatbelts DO save lives -- wear 'em.... | CAM3::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Tue Dec 14 1993 12:29 | 7 |
| Man, you gotta wear those seatbelts. How many folks have been killed flying
out of cars. Remember Tommy Caldwell?
Hoping the Hurley-Man pulls through.....
'SAw
|
| 10.1261 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | 26/8=3.25 --- 8 tough loses | Tue Dec 14 1993 12:38 | 9 |
|
Not to make a rathole about wearing seatbelts. IMO if Hurley was
wearing his seatbelt, he would have been crushed. The picture I saw
of his vehicle, you couldn't find the drivers seat. Seatbelts do
prevent injurys and save lives. As long as you don't get hit on the
driver's door, by a car doing 60 MPH. In this case a seatbelt would
have been worse.
Ron
|
| 10.1262 | | CAM3::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Tue Dec 14 1993 12:50 | 17 |
| > Not to make a rathole about wearing seatbelts. IMO if Hurley was
>wearing his seatbelt, he would have been crushed. The picture I saw
>of his vehicle, you couldn't find the drivers seat. Seatbelts do
>prevent injurys and save lives. As long as you don't get hit on the
>driver's door, by a car doing 60 MPH. In this case a seatbelt would
>have been worse.
I haven't seen much on this particular accident, and the new side-impact
requirements are definitely something needed for cars. Getting "t-boned"
is nasty stuff.
But, I've pulled lots of people out of wrecks, and for the most part,
they save lives.
Whoever's posting the reports, keep 'em coming.....
'Saw
|
| 10.1263 | C'mon Bobby, pull through | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue Dec 14 1993 13:54 | 17 |
|
Yabbut to continue the seat belt rathole, lasted night on a late night
news broadcast, the doctor who operated on Bobby said the definitely,
if he had been wearing his seatbelt the injuries wouldn't have been so
serious because most of what he incurred was attributable or shows the
classic signs of being tossed from the car.
IMO, getting t-boned might have destroyed his pelvic region (busted
hips, legs) but I don't think he would have had the collapsed lungs and
seperated trachea.
I remain,
a guy who don't play a doctor on tee vee but have, on occasion played
one in da bedroom.
Kev
|
| 10.1264 | he's lucky he's alive with no way to breathe | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Tue Dec 14 1993 14:28 | 7 |
| > IMO, getting t-boned might have destroyed his pelvic region (busted
> hips, legs) but I don't think he would have had the collapsed lungs and
> seperated trachea.
I agree. Being thrown 100 feet had to cause him breaking every rib but
1, collapsing both his lungs, separated trachea at the left lung, and
multiple lacerations on the upper body.
|
| 10.1265 | always wear 'em | GENRAL::WADE | Pull! | Tue Dec 14 1993 15:57 | 7 |
|
I saw a picture of the wreckage in today's local paper. The
shot is from the front. It appears to me that the driver's
side front tire was the point of impact. Looks like seat belts
would've helped in this case.
Claybone
|
| 10.1266 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Tue Dec 14 1993 15:59 | 32 |
|
> Not to make a rathole about wearing seatbelts. IMO if Hurley was
>wearing his seatbelt, he would have been crushed. The picture I saw
>of his vehicle, you couldn't find the drivers seat. Seatbelts do
>prevent injurys and save lives. As long as you don't get hit on the
>driver's door, by a car doing 60 MPH. In this case a seatbelt would
>have been worse.
I'm sorry but this is 100% incorrect. The laws of physics say that when you get
t-boned the first impact is on your left side. Wearing a seatbelt or not the
impact is immediate and there is no way to get around it. The secondary action
of getting thrown to the right happens well after (in microseconds) after the
initial impact. Getting thrown from the car is a direct result of the impact
from the side of your car not the initial impact...ie the damage from the
initial impact has already been done before the body starts to move...
Think of the same situation in a frontal impact. Your initial impact is forward
not to the back. That's why they have airbags. If the impact was to throw you
backwards the seat would take the brunt of the force.
One of the problems was the Hurley was driving a Sport Utility Vehicle
(4runner, I think) and they don't have side impact beams yet. I think they are
required to in another year.
The only time a seatbelt wouldn't be beneficial is if you drove your car off of
a bridge and couldn't get the belt off and drowned or if you do what my father
does and don't fasten the lap belt on those stupid motorized shoulder belt only
models and get decapitated by the shoulder belt because you dive under it in an
accident...Whoever invented those ought to be shot...
Metz
|
| 10.1267 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Dec 14 1993 16:29 | 5 |
| All I know is that 4-5 years ago wearing a seatbelt is the only thing that saved
me from some bad injuries. The upside potential is much greater than
the downside.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1268 | finis | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Tue Dec 14 1993 17:21 | 7 |
| I too believe that wearing a seatbelt is beneficial and common
sensical. I don't see the need to legislate, thus the rathole.
MikeL
|
| 10.1269 | | CAMONE::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Tue Dec 14 1993 17:46 | 15 |
| >
> I too believe that wearing a seatbelt is beneficial and common
> sensical. I don't see the need to legislate, thus the rathole.
>
They legislated it down here in CT, and for a while it got quite a bit
of attention.
I wear mine out of habit, and thus don't worry about the legislation.
Another good law they have on the books but never enforce is the
requirement to have your headlights on when it's raining.
|
| 10.1270 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Tue Dec 14 1993 17:58 | 14 |
|
Insurance companies should be allowed to only pay partial benefits to crash
victims not wearing belts then especially in the case of death.
Somehow you have to get through to Billy-Tex-Bob who thinks it's not cool and
Joe Perrier who doesn't want to wrinkle his suit that it costs you and me money
when these people get into accidents and sustain injuries that are mostly
preventable through the use of seat belts...
I'd do the same thing for helmetless motorcycle riders if they suffer head
injuries...
Metz
|
| 10.1271 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue Dec 14 1993 18:03 | 17 |
|
Yabbut metz,
I agreee 100.1% with ya. I don't agree that there should be laws
mandating wearing them but reducing benefits if ya don't seem fair
'nuff.
BTW, I think we've seen the last of Bobby Hurley on the basketball
court and that's too bad. The kid was a pretty good player even though
he is white and 6'2".
I remain,
wondering if the other guy gets cited for having a_expired license and
driving without lights?
Kev
|
| 10.1272 | | GENRAL::WADE | Pull! | Tue Dec 14 1993 18:11 | 4 |
|
What's his race got to do with his basketball ability Kev?
Claybone
|
| 10.1273 | white men cain't jump (pun) ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue Dec 14 1993 18:17 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1274 | I had to add that :-) | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Tue Dec 14 1993 18:50 | 24 |
| Wait a minute, I get hit, broadside by some idiot doing 60mph and
because Im not wearing my seatbelt I shouldnt be intitled to Insurence
benefits, am I hearing that correctly ? And people who register motor
cycles pay insurence just like everyone else, maybe people should wear
helmets in cars to decrease head injuries ? This is the problem with
the world people spend too much time trying to change laws to decrease
one man freedom but dont worry about the real problems in the world.
Lets get guns/drugs out of our schools before worrying about a guy wearing
or not wearing a seatbelt or helmet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This reminds me of the senators wife's who spent big $$$, time and
effort on getting records labeld (A real worthy cause) or how about the
lady who spent all her time and energy to get married with children
moved to a later time slot, more time well spent. Insurence is
expensive mostly due to fraud and over inflated repair/parts costs.
I can fix my car for less time and money then most garage's and do just
as good a job, but the insurence wont cut the check to me they want to
pay the inflated costs.. and just keep bumping up premiums. Then you
have all the people who put in false claims....
Make people have training and wear seatbelts but anyone can buy a gun
:-)
mab
|
| 10.1275 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Dec 14 1993 19:03 | 1 |
| There are seatbelt topics in MASSACHUSETTS and CARBUFFS.
|
| 10.1276 | | GWEN::ASHE | I ring my 'lil bell on the sidewalk... | Tue Dec 14 1993 19:03 | 67 |
| Article 10342 of clari.sports.basketball:
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!uunet!looking!clarinews
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Hurley remains in serious condition
Keywords: basketball, men's professional
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <bkp-hurleyURe4_3DE@clarinet.com>
References: <bkp-hurleyUR795_3DD@clarinet.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 10:20:20 PST
Location: california, north carolina, new jersey
ACategory: sports
Slugword: bkp-hurley
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 473/467; Id: z5432; Src: upi; Sel: xxskp; Adate: 12-14-N/A; Ver: 1/0
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: yskprxx., &skprca., &skprnc., &skprnj.
Lines: 46
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (UPI) -- The prospects for a full recovery by
Sacramento Kings rookie point guard Bobby Hurley, who was seriously
injured in a two-car auto accident Sunday night, won't be known until
the next 4-to-5 days.
Hurley remains in serious condition at the University of California
Davis Medical Center in Sacramento after suffering multiple injuries in
the accident.
Hurley underwent approximately eight hours of surgery to repair the
trachea tube that was severed from the main airway to his left lung.
Drs. F. William Blaisdell and John Benfield performed the surgery.
Hurley also is undergoing treatment and tests for multiple rib
fractures on both his right and left sides, a ligament injury in his
right knee, an injury to his left wrist and a small compression fracture
in the middle of his back that will not require any specific treatment.
``The injury that Bobby Hurley sustained is a potentially life-
threatening injury, and it was quickly recognized and treated by our
surgical colleagues, Dr. William Blaisdell and our trauma surgery
department,'' Kings team physician Dr. Richard Marder said. ``Over the
next few days, events may occur that could result in dramatic
improvement suddenly, or he could have complications that could
necessitate further surgery or other treatment.''
According to an earlier statement released by the Kings, Hurley was
driving home approximately one hour after Sunday's game against the Los
Angeles Clippers when he was struck by another vehicle at an
intersection less than a mile from Arco Arena, where the Kings play
their home games.
The driver of the other vehicle was 37-year-old Dan Wieland of
Sacramento. Authorities said that Wieland was not under the influence of
alcohol at the time of the accident.
Police reports said the other vehicle was traveling at approximately
50-to-60 mph without its headlights on. The force of the collision threw
Hurley, who was not wearing a seat belt, from his vehicle. He was found
face-down in a ditch by teammate Mike Peplowski, who stopped to help not
realizing that it was Hurley who was involved in the accident. Hurley's
trachea was separated from his left lung when he was ejected from the
vehicle.
Hurley was transported by ambulance to the UC-Davis Medical Center.
Hurley never lost consciousness during the accident and has responded
when visited by his parents, Bob and Chris Hurley, who arrived from New
Jersey.
Wieland also underwent surgery at the Medical Center. The accident is
still under investigation.
The 22-year-old Hurley was selected seventh overall by the Kings in
the June NBA draft after a stellar four-year career at Duke, where he
led the Blue Devils to two national championships and set the career
NCAA assist record with 1,076.
|
| 10.1277 | | CAMONE::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Tue Dec 14 1993 19:03 | 5 |
| >
> Make people have training and wear seatbelts but anyone can buy a gun
> :-)
What's wrong with being able to buy a gun?
|
| 10.1278 | | GWEN::ASHE | I ring my 'lil bell on the sidewalk... | Tue Dec 14 1993 19:04 | 57 |
|
Article 10327 of clari.sports.basketball:
Xref: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com clari.sports.basketball:10327 clari.sports.top:16420
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!decwrl!looking!clarinews
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.top
Subject: Alcohol test proves negative in Hurley crash
Keywords: basketball, men's professional
Copyright: 1993 by UPI, R
Message-ID: <bkp-hurleyUR15e_3DD@clarinet.com>
References: <bkp-hurleyUR795_3DD@clarinet.com>
X-Supersedes: <bkp-hurleyUR84d_3DD@clarinet.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 16:55:45 PST
ACategory: sports
Slugword: bkp-hurley
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 294/291; Id: z9093; Src: upi; Sel: xxskp; Adate: 12-13-N/A; Ver: 0/2; V: update
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: &skprxx., //ns--s/, tnrb....
Note: (alcohol not a factor in Hurley crash)
Lines: 30
SACRAMENTO (UPI) -- Authorities said Monday the driver of a car that
crashed into the truck driven by Sacramento Kings guard Bobby Hurley was
not under the influence of alcohol.
Hurley suffered major chest injuries in the accident Sunday night,
which occurred a little over an hour after the Kings' 112-102 loss at
Sacramento's ARCO Arena to the Los Angeles Clippers.
Police reports indicated a vehicle driven by Dan Wieland was
traveling at approximately 50-60 mph with its headlights off when it
smashed into Hurley's truck. Authorities said there was no evidence of
alcohol in Wieland's blood and they still do not know why he did not
have his lights on.
Hurley underwent surgery for eight hours Monday after suffering two
collapsed lungs, multiple rib and wrist fractures and major lacerations
to his upper body.
Wieland, 37, of Sacramento, also underwent surgery at the Medical
Center.
Dr. Richard Marder said the prospects for Hurley's full recovery are
difficult to predict.
``Everything hinges on what happens in the next four to five days,''
he said.
The force of the collision caused Hurley, who was not wearing a
seatbelt, to be thrown from his truck. The force was so great Hurley's
trachea was torn from his left lung, Marder said. That tear was repaired
during the surgery.
Doctors said Hurley was conscious and breathing with a ventilator. He
was not tested for drugs or alcohol.
Hurley, 22, was selected seventh overall by the Kings in the June NBA
draft after a stellar four-year career at Duke, where he led the Blue
Devils to two national championships and set the career NCAA assist
record with 1,076.
|
| 10.1279 | | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Tue Dec 14 1993 20:25 | 17 |
|
We just have to work on your reading comprehension Air...
I said you should get reduced benefits because you didn't think before you
drove (namely you didn't buckle up..therefore you probably suffered greater
injuries than the buckled driver would have) People have to realize that their
is a cost to these actions and this cost should be reflected by the individual
and not society at large...
It's just like if you formed an expedition to climb Mt Everest and had to get
rescued. Should every taxpayer pay for your rescue or should you?
Guns...Don't get me started on guns. I'm an avid gun control person. I'd vote
in a second to eliminate anything not used for sporting purposes like 15 round
clips, Cop killer bullets, semi automatics..you name it...
Metz
|
| 10.1280 | My 1994 4runner has side impact beams. | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Sales gets commisions we get "JACK" | Tue Dec 14 1993 21:04 | 10 |
|
One of the problems was the Hurley was driving a Sport Utility Vehicle
(4runner, I think) and they don't have side impact beams yet. I think they are
required to in another year.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If bobby was driving a 93 that's true.
|
| 10.1281 | alcohol test in this case is stupid | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Tue Dec 14 1993 22:39 | 1 |
| Hurley just came from playing in an NBA game.
|
| 10.1282 | Smoke a few Cigs, play some cards, eat the buffet... | DECWET::METZGER | America's most beloved game show host | Tue Dec 14 1993 22:49 | 5 |
|
Who is to say he didn't try and imitate John Kruk and pound down 10-12 brews in
the locker room after the game?
Metz
|
| 10.1283 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Tue Dec 14 1993 23:13 | 6 |
| Stats show that there are fewer major injuries and fatalaties in states
that have laws that make wearing a seatbelt mandatory - but will MA
pass this law - nahhh, just let insurance rates keep getting higher.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1284 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Wed Dec 15 1993 00:21 | 4 |
| I remember it was on the ballot in MA back in '86 when I last lived
there for any length of time. Isn't Massachusetts insurance problem
found in it being the auto theft capitol of the country (at least it
once was)?
|
| 10.1285 | I think there #2 0r #3 in the country now... | SALEM::STIG | And every eye shall see | Wed Dec 15 1993 10:18 | 3 |
| mostly joy rides though mike...
stig
|
| 10.1286 | Gun Hunting, now theres a sport, Use A BOW, thats a challange | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Dec 15 1993 11:36 | 25 |
| I just think penelizing non seatbelt wearer's should be way down on the
list. I had a friend get stopped for his 2nd offense drunk driving and
he lost his license for less time the me, I was stopped for doing more
the +25 over posted speed limit, no alcohol, just in a hurry, but +25
is driving to endanger and I lost my license for a longer time period
then someone with there 2nd drunk driving offense. I also got more
surcharge points ? The system stinks, the people they should be
sticking it too, they dont. I'll be down to a step 9 this year (IN MA)
so now that I've had 7years of error free driving I hate to not get a
benefit Im entitled too if I wasnt wearing a seatbelt.
I have nothing against Guns, its the gun laws that stink. I watched
the program a few weeks back with valerie bertaneli (A true story).
The women she was playing was once declared legaly insane, but after
being released from the hospitol (I only watched the end) she was
allowed to purchase a gun, and later went on to use this weapon in a
killing spree that too the lives of 2 childer and injured several
others. And the thing that gets me is somewhere out there there's a
group of people that think this person has the right to bear arms ???
Add this to the fact that alot of major city's are re selling the guns
they take off the streets I just dont understand the mindset of the
officials and politicians that come up with these ideas ?
Mike
|
| 10.1287 | | CAM3::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Wed Dec 15 1993 12:06 | 43 |
| > others. And the thing that gets me is somewhere out there there's a
> group of people that think this person has the right to bear arms ???
Get your facts straight. When you've studied them, and know what the NRA
is saying, then come back in and talk about it.
I don't know about a lot of states, but it's not easy getting LEGALLY getting
a gun in CT. If you want to buy a rifle, you have to wait two weeks to
get it, while a background check is performed. If you have a hunting license,
you can get one right away.
With a handgun, there is a two week waiting period if you don't have a
permit. When the gun is picked up, a temporary permit is issued to allow
you to take it home. Once it's home, you cannot take it outside your house
if you don't have a permit. (I never knew that part of the law).
If you have a permit, you can take it when you buy it.
Getting a handgun permit is more or less difficult depending on the town
you live in. In Hebron, my town, we don't have a PD, but rather a
Resident State Trooper. All he requires is the application, the NRA
certificate, and fingerprints. Then the SP does the check on me.
In Glastonbury, my home town, it is much more difficult.
Considering that in the past three months I've passed a State Police
background check and an FBI background check, I'm pretty sure I'll get the
permit in about another 6 weeks.
So really, the Brady Bill means nothing here in CT, because we have stricter
laws.
But I have several friends who wouldn't be here today were it not legal for
them to carry a handgun.....
JMHO,
'Saw
|
| 10.1288 | Who said NRA ? | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Dec 15 1993 12:22 | 6 |
| I never once said NRA reread my mail I said a group of people, never
NRA or are you saying that there's not one member of the NRA that
thinks everyone is intitled (I know a law was later passed to prevent
Insane people from getting gun).
mab
|
| 10.1289 | Its a tough issue and both sides are right... | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Dec 15 1993 12:33 | 33 |
| I just think there's has to be a little better control on who gets
guns. Its seems to me that every year at least 1 hunter is shot
or killed because some other hunter shot first then looked to see
what they shot.
Maybe let them get the guns and hunt, but if your caught in the woods
hunting without the proper clothing (Dont you need some orange or red).
You should be banned from hunting or carrying a gun for at least a
year. If you accidently shot someone hunting cant you go out the
following day and try again ? Does that make sense ? Hey I came very
close to getting and carrying a pistol myself (I use to clean federal
buildings, banks and most of the other guys did it) but felt if I
needed a gun for my job Id get another one, IF I lived somewhere that
I needed a gun to feel safe I'll move.
Every Year when they come out with the stats on how many children, and
innocent bystanders are killed by guns in USA compared to England and
other countries I start to really think about which side of this issue
really makes sense. My father, brother, brother in law and father in
law all have pistols (permits too) but I really dont think any of them
will ever need it to save there lives.
They got guns, lets get guns, they got bigger guns, lets pass law so we
can get bigger guns, etc etc etc... Do people really need the right to
carry Uzi's ?
I dont fully side with either side, people should have the right to
carry weapons if the choice but there should be some limits on who can
carry and what they can carry. I dont see the need for fully automatic
weapons in my home, and hope to hell I never need one to live day to
day....
mab
|
| 10.1290 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Dec 15 1993 12:59 | 8 |
| 10.1291 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Dec 15 1993 13:12 | 3 |
| This is the NBA topic, not the NRA (or seatbelt) topic. Please take
this discussion to a more appropriate conference. Further replies on
gun control/seatbelts will be deleted.
|
| 10.1293 | | CAMONE::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Wed Dec 15 1993 13:22 | 12 |
| > This is the NBA topic, not the NRA (or seatbelt) topic. Please take
> this discussion to a more appropriate conference. Further replies on
> gun control/seatbelts will be deleted.
How come you're making unilateral decisions here?
tsk, tsk, tsk......
8^)
|
| 10.1294 | x | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Wed Dec 15 1993 13:23 | 6 |
|
Read in the paper that the guy who ran into Hurley tested positive for
amphetamines.
Kevin
|
| 10.1295 | master baiter testing the limits???? ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Wed Dec 15 1993 13:26 | 17 |
|
Yabbut does anybody know if any NBA team has ever employed the run 'n
gun offense since Denver?
Does OSHA have any opinion on whether or not NBA players who are
sitting on the bench while they're not playing should be wearing
seatbelts?
Or, as MrT would say, "reach out and taunt someone"
;^)
I remain,
taxing the (assumed) wisdome of you-know-who
Kev
|
| 10.1296 | | CAMONE::WAY | You can't polish a turd | Wed Dec 15 1993 13:36 | 17 |
| > Or, as MrT would say, "reach out and taunt someone"
Alas, poor MrT, I knew him, Horatio. Gone are the days, when he would take
me on his knee, the pipes the pipes are caling, from glen to glen, and
coming around the mountain when she comes. Just a jacknife has
MacHeath dear, and he keeps it out of sight of all of me, why not take
all of me......
or something like that.....
'Saw
|
| 10.1297 | Gonna kick some Hoos butt this year | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Golden Gopher hoops! | Wed Dec 15 1993 13:56 | 5 |
| Ah MrT. I should get ahold of him when I get back in town for
Christmas.
Spud
|
| 10.1298 | FYI | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Wed Dec 15 1993 17:43 | 40 |
| VNS TECHNOLOGY WATCH: [Mike Taylor, VNS Correspondent]
===================== [Littleton, MA, USA ]
No Technical Fouls
Elaborately engineered sneakers are not the only kind of mobile
technology in the NBA these days. with the help of IBM and some
specialized software, coaches are using pen-based notebook computers
to access information that can help them plot their strategies during
basketball games.
Although all 27 NBA teams have been equipped with conventional notebook
computers for several seasons, the machines have seen limited computing
time. During the past season, however, a few teams gave IBM's ThinkPad
710T pen-based notebook a formal tryout. Loaded with basketball
specific software developed by Information Display Systems Inc., of
Jacksonville, Florida, the notebooks quickly became the first string
decision support technology. the notebooks function as electronic
playbooks and clipboards that coaches can use to diagram and store
plays during a game. The software contains modules for statistics,
scouting, and plays, enabling the coaches to easily access and
manipulate data that previously was recorded on paper. Statistics on
everything from shooting percentages and rebounds to how many times a
player dives into the crowd for a loose ball can be stored in a
database. "Essentially, it's a coaching tool that shows us how many
times we run certain plays and how well they are working for us," said
Tom Sterner, an assistant coach for the Orlando Magic. If a particular
play is not working, Sterner can tap into his database and be presented
with a number of alternatives. Without the ThinkPad, collecting and
analyzing the same kind of data would involve several hours of sifting
through paper based stat sheets. "It's a lot quicker and a lot
neater," Sterner said.
The notebooks have another advantage over regular playbooks" they are
password protected. That feature would have been welcomed by Indiana
Pacers player Malik Sealy, who lost his playbook at the airport during
the playoffs against the New York Knicks. Two caring New Yorkers found
the book and promptly handed it over to radio host Don Imus, who read
an embellished version over the air.
{CIO August 1993}
|
| 10.1299 | Who's Hot & Who's Not - for Tommy's numbers fetish | FRETZ::HEISER | no I'm really very, very shy | Wed Dec 15 1993 17:44 | 181 |
| STANDINGS
-----------
Team Won Lost +/- GB PCT
1) AtlantaHawks 10 0 3 - 1.000
2) HoustonRockets 9 1 5 1.0 0.900
3) PhoenixSuns 9 1 4 1.0 0.900
4) SeattleSupersonics 8 2 6 2.0 0.800
5) GSWarriors 8 2 2 2.0 0.800
6) SanAntonioSpurs 7 3 2 3.0 0.700
7) OrlandoMagic 7 3 2 3.0 0.700
8) UtahJazz 7 3 0 3.0 0.700
9) ChicagoBulls 6 4 3 4.0 0.600
10) NYKnicks 6 4 0 4.0 0.600
11) PortlandTrailBlazers 5 5 2 5.0 0.500
12) IndianaPacers 5 5 1 5.0 0.500
13) DenverNuggets 5 5 0 5.0 0.500
14) MinnesotaT-wolves 5 5 -1 5.0 0.500
15) LAClippers 4 6 0 6.0 0.400
16) LALakers 4 6 0 6.0 0.400
17) MiamiHeat 4 6 -1 6.0 0.400
18) BostonCeltics 4 6 -1 6.0 0.400
19) CharlotteHornets 4 6 -1 6.0 0.400
20) ClevelandCavaliers 4 6 -2 6.0 0.400
21) MilwaukeeBucks 3 7 -1 7.0 0.300
22) Philadelphia76ers 3 7 -2 7.0 0.300
23) NJNets 3 7 -2 7.0 0.300
24) DetroitPistons 2 8 -4 8.0 0.200
25) WashingtonBullets 1 9 -3 9.0 0.100
26) SacramentoKings 1 9 -4 9.0 0.100
27) DallasMavericks 0 10 -6 10.0 0.000
+/- is Away Wins - Home Loses.
Team Scoring Team Defense
Team Pts/Game Team Pts/Game
1 PhoenixSuns 113.8 1 NYKnicks 90.1
2 AtlantaHawks 110.4 2 SeattleSupersonics 92.1
3 PortlandTrailBlazers 109.5 3 SanAntonioSpurs 92.9
4 UtahJazz 105.4 4 ClevelandCavaliers 95.4
5 MiamiHeat 104.3 5 HoustonRockets 95.5
6 CharlotteHornets 104.1 6 GSWarriors 95.7
7 BostonCeltics 103.9 7 DetroitPistons 97.0
8 LAClippers 103.4 8 IndianaPacers 97.6
9 WashingtonBullets 103.0 9 OrlandoMagic 97.7
10 SeattleSupersonics 102.8 10 AtlantaHawks 98.2
11 ChicagoBulls 102.7 11 Philadelphia76ers 98.8
12 LALakers 102.2 12 UtahJazz 100.0
13 DenverNuggets 102.0 13 ChicagoBulls 100.4
14 OrlandoMagic 101.8 14 MinnesotaT-wolves 101.6
15 NJNets 101.7 15 MilwaukeeBucks 102.1
16 IndianaPacers 101.0 16 PhoenixSuns 102.7
17 SacramentoKings 100.9 17 NJNets 103.1
18 HoustonRockets 99.3 18 DenverNuggets 103.4
19 MinnesotaT-wolves 98.8 19 LAClippers 103.6
20 SanAntonioSpurs 98.5 20 LALakers 103.9
21 GSWarriors 98.3 21 MiamiHeat 105.3
22 NYKnicks 98.1 22 CharlotteHornets 108.4
23 DallasMavericks 95.8 23 PortlandTrailBlazers 108.5
24 MilwaukeeBucks 95.6 24 BostonCeltics 110.0
25 ClevelandCavaliers 95.1 25 DallasMavericks 111.1
26 Philadelphia76ers 93.0 26 SacramentoKings 112.0
27 DetroitPistons 92.0 27 WashingtonBullets 113.6
Team FG Pct Offensive Team FT Pct
Team FG Pct. Team FT Pct.
1 PhoenixSuns 0.508 1 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.809
2 LAClippers 0.499 2 MiamiHeat 0.806
3 WashingtonBullets 0.499 3 PhoenixSuns 0.783
4 IndianaPacers 0.491 4 AtlantaHawks 0.781
5 OrlandoMagic 0.487 5 ClevelandCavaliers 0.778
6 AtlantaHawks 0.483 6 DallasMavericks 0.772
7 LALakers 0.478 7 NJNets 0.765
8 SeattleSupersonics 0.478 8 SacramentoKings 0.763
9 HoustonRockets 0.475 9 HoustonRockets 0.760
10 UtahJazz 0.475 10 MilwaukeeBucks 0.760
11 SanAntonioSpurs 0.474 11 BostonCeltics 0.758
12 DenverNuggets 0.474 12 UtahJazz 0.751
13 BostonCeltics 0.474 13 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.749
14 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.472 14 NYKnicks 0.744
15 ChicagoBulls 0.469 15 CharlotteHornets 0.741
16 GSWarriors 0.463 16 SanAntonioSpurs 0.736
17 DetroitPistons 0.459 17 IndianaPacers 0.732
18 MiamiHeat 0.458 18 WashingtonBullets 0.723
19 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.452 19 DetroitPistons 0.720
20 ClevelandCavaliers 0.450 20 LALakers 0.717
21 CharlotteHornets 0.446 21 Philadelphia76ers 0.709
22 Philadelphia76ers 0.446 22 SeattleSupersonics 0.697
23 NYKnicks 0.442 23 DenverNuggets 0.694
24 NJNets 0.436 24 ChicagoBulls 0.684
25 SacramentoKings 0.432 25 LAClippers 0.671
26 MilwaukeeBucks 0.432 26 GSWarriors 0.667
27 DallasMavericks 0.426 27 OrlandoMagic 0.667
Team Defensive FG Pct. Team 3 Pt. Pct.
Team FG Pct. Team 3 Pt Pct.
1 HoustonRockets 0.415 1 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.400
2 SanAntonioSpurs 0.433 2 ClevelandCavaliers 0.392
3 DenverNuggets 0.434 3 Philadelphia76ers 0.376
4 NYKnicks 0.435 4 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.374
5 OrlandoMagic 0.442 5 ChicagoBulls 0.370
6 SeattleSupersonics 0.443 6 NYKnicks 0.352
7 ClevelandCavaliers 0.444 7 DenverNuggets 0.347
8 AtlantaHawks 0.445 8 MiamiHeat 0.342
9 GSWarriors 0.449 9 DetroitPistons 0.340
10 MiamiHeat 0.451 10 HoustonRockets 0.339
11 IndianaPacers 0.454 11 UtahJazz 0.338
12 UtahJazz 0.459 12 AtlantaHawks 0.327
13 CharlotteHornets 0.461 13 SacramentoKings 0.326
14 LALakers 0.463 14 SanAntonioSpurs 0.325
15 NJNets 0.463 15 LALakers 0.318
16 DetroitPistons 0.469 16 CharlotteHornets 0.316
17 MinnesotaT-wolves 0.472 17 OrlandoMagic 0.315
18 Philadelphia76ers 0.473 18 IndianaPacers 0.308
19 LAClippers 0.475 19 DallasMavericks 0.307
20 ChicagoBulls 0.478 20 MilwaukeeBucks 0.302
21 BostonCeltics 0.478 21 WashingtonBullets 0.301
22 PhoenixSuns 0.480 22 NJNets 0.299
23 PortlandTrailBlazers 0.491 23 LAClippers 0.296
24 SacramentoKings 0.503 24 PhoenixSuns 0.290
25 MilwaukeeBucks 0.506 25 GSWarriors 0.284
26 DallasMavericks 0.535 26 BostonCeltics 0.268
27 WashingtonBullets 0.545 27 SeattleSupersonics 0.256
Team Rebounding Difference Team Personal Fouls
Team Reb Diff Team Fouls
1 NYKnicks 6.6 1 MiamiHeat 27.20
2 SanAntonioSpurs 6.4 2 UtahJazz 26.30
3 IndianaPacers 5.4 3 NYKnicks 25.40
4 AtlantaHawks 5.0 4 DallasMavericks 25.10
5 PortlandTrailBlazers 3.7 5 DenverNuggets 25.10
6 SeattleSupersonics 2.8 6 IndianaPacers 25.10
7 MiamiHeat 2.7 7 MinnesotaT-wolves 24.60
8 NJNets 2.4 8 SacramentoKings 23.90
9 MinnesotaT-wolves 1.6 9 MilwaukeeBucks 23.50
10 ChicagoBulls 1.3 10 SeattleSupersonics 23.40
11 DenverNuggets 1.3 11 CharlotteHornets 23.10
12 GSWarriors 1.1 12 HoustonRockets 23.10
13 HoustonRockets 0.9 13 LALakers 22.50
14 PhoenixSuns 0.7 14 BostonCeltics 22.50
15 CharlotteHornets 0.6 15 PortlandTrailBlazers 22.50
16 OrlandoMagic 0.0 16 OrlandoMagic 21.60
17 LAClippers -0.5 17 DetroitPistons 21.60
18 UtahJazz -0.7 18 LAClippers 21.50
19 MilwaukeeBucks -1.6 19 ChicagoBulls 21.30
20 BostonCeltics -1.7 20 ClevelandCavaliers 21.10
21 DallasMavericks -2.1 21 NJNets 21.00
22 ClevelandCavaliers -2.5 22 WashingtonBullets 20.80
23 DetroitPistons -3.2 23 GSWarriors 20.70
24 WashingtonBullets -4.0 24 SanAntonioSpurs 20.70
25 Philadelphia76ers -4.4 25 AtlantaHawks 19.10
26 SacramentoKings -7.7 26 Philadelphia76ers 18.80
27 LALakers -11.4 27 PhoenixSuns 18.20
Team Turnovers Team Blocked Shots
Team Turnovers Team Blocks
1 ClevelandCavaliers 13.10 1 DenverNuggets 9.50
2 LALakers 13.60 2 Philadelphia76ers 8.40
3 AtlantaHawks 14.00 3 NJNets 8.40
4 UtahJazz 14.20 4 LALakers 7.40
5 DetroitPistons 14.60 5 PhoenixSuns 6.70
6 PortlandTrailBlazers 14.80 6 HoustonRockets 6.60
7 SanAntonioSpurs 14.80 7 IndianaPacers 6.60
8 NJNets 14.80 8 OrlandoMagic 6.60
9 PhoenixSuns 15.00 9 CharlotteHornets 5.80
10 ChicagoBulls 15.00 10 LAClippers 5.50
11 MiamiHeat 15.30 11 AtlantaHawks 5.40
12 OrlandoMagic 15.40 12 MiamiHeat 5.30
13 SacramentoKings 16.20 13 PortlandTrailBlazers 5.20
14 NYKnicks 16.40 14 MinnesotaT-wolves 4.90
15 BostonCeltics 16.40 15 SanAntonioSpurs 4.90
16 SeattleSupersonics 16.50 16 ClevelandCavaliers 4.70
17 MilwaukeeBucks 16.50 17 GSWarriors 4.70
18 GSWarriors 16.90 18 SeattleSupersonics 4.70
19 DallasMavericks 17.00 19 NYKnicks 4.40
20 CharlotteHornets 17.70 20 BostonCeltics 4.20
21 MinnesotaT-wolves 17.70 21 ChicagoBulls 4.10
22 LAClippers 17.80 22 UtahJazz 4.10
23 DenverNuggets 17.90 23 MilwaukeeBucks 4.00
24 Philadelphia76ers 18.10 24 DallasMavericks 4.00
25 WashingtonBullets 18.40 25 SacramentoKings 3.50
26 HoustonRockets 18.40 26 WashingtonBullets 3.50
27 IndianaPacers 20.10 27 DetroitPistons 3.30
|
| 10.1300 | .1300 to boot | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Wed Dec 15 1993 17:57 | 10 |
|
Yabbut I read/heard that Bobby Hurley remained conscious
throuth the whole accident.
Musta suffered some bodacious pain :*(
I remain,
always a seat-belt wearer
Kev
|
| 10.1301 | he must have been in shock... | SALEM::STIG | And every eye shall see | Thu Dec 16 1993 12:34 | 4 |
| re -1 yeah....he must have had some shock out of it I would think to
lessen the pain a bit...
stig
|
| 10.1302 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Thu Dec 16 1993 14:03 | 10 |
|
Yabbut today's report has him breathing on his own, he sat up and
is drinking liquids.
I remain,
a_Jimmy_Olsen_replica!
Kev
|
| 10.1303 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | 26/8=3.25 --- 8 tough loses | Thu Dec 16 1993 16:27 | 7 |
|
Also the guy who hit him is claiming that his headlights
were ON, not off as the media is saying. The only thing the have
found in his blood was Amphetamines. There trying to figure out if
it was from an over the counter prescription or not.
Ron
|
| 10.1304 | ????????????? | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Number 3 Looms over Fenway | Tue Dec 21 1993 11:53 | 8 |
|
Anyone know if Rodmans suspension means he'll miss tonights game?
Chappy
|
| 10.1305 | | GWEN::ASHE | I've got the kevorka | Tue Dec 21 1993 14:00 | 1 |
| Yup
|
| 10.1306 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Mon Jan 03 1994 13:12 | 8 |
| trade rumor reported in the Detriot(tm) Free Press:
Isiah Thomas to the Knicks for Tony Campbell and a #1 nexted year.
Pat Riley and Isiah Thomas - there's a couple who deserve each other.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1307 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Mon Jan 03 1994 15:50 | 2 |
| Six rings between them, right?
|
| 10.1308 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Mon Jan 03 1994 17:45 | 3 |
| 10.1309 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Tue Jan 04 1994 13:36 | 7 |
| Well I heard on the radio today that Thomas turned down the trade.
Hmm. He must really like Detriot(tm). He's passing up a chance at another
ring to stay with a team going nowhere thised year. The Pistons have a pretty
bright future, but will not likely contend again during Isiah's playing days.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1310 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 04 1994 14:18 | 2 |
| Maybe he's loyal. Nothing wrong with that...
|
| 10.1311 | what's the world coming to? | TNPUBS::ALVEY | Heather be Thy name... | Tue Jan 04 1994 14:25 | 8 |
| Anybody else bothered by a system in which
you pay these guys major money and then you can't
trade their butt outa town so somebody else can
pay them?
Must be nice.
dr.a
|
| 10.1312 | Okay, lets try free market on sports | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jan 04 1994 14:34 | 10 |
| That's simple, get rid of the system: drafts, restrictions etc. Put a
price on everything including no-trade contracts. Let the free market
take over and everyone can quit complaining.
The end result may be lower overall salaries and lower ticket prices.
But in Thomas case I would assume they could have replaced no trade
with more $bucks.
|
| 10.1313 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 04 1994 14:54 | 9 |
| Didn't the Timberwolves want to trade for McHale but he said no because
he wanted to retire a Celtic? Wasn't there talk about trading Parish?
What's the difference?
They're not close to the cap, his contract is up at the end of the
year, they're rebuilding and I don't see where Tony Campbell and a low
#1 pick really helps this club. As a fan, I'm glad he's staying. He's
been loyal, give him his option.
|
| 10.1314 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Tue Jan 04 1994 15:26 | 1 |
| Thomas is too much a dirty, low-life, yeller, kissin' bandit to be loyal.
|
| 10.1315 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Jan 04 1994 15:35 | 2 |
| dr.a, slavery was abolished in this country over 100 years ago. How
would you like to be traded to IBM for a programmer to be named later?
|
| 10.1316 | the ol' Bartleby the Scrivener bit... | TNPUBS::ALVEY | Heather be Thy name... | Tue Jan 04 1994 16:40 | 12 |
| Slavery?
Huh?
I'm not talking about (and certainly not advocating) slavery, Mac.
An analogy would be DEC telling me to pack my things and me
saying, "No, I'd prefer not to" and getting away with it.
Or my four-year-old who every night sez "I'm NOT taking a bath"
getting her way.
It's a matter of remembering who the boss is.
dr.a
|
| 10.1317 | I want outta Philly, I'm gonna retire... | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 04 1994 17:28 | 1 |
| Sort of like Charles, Mike?
|
| 10.1318 | One of H. Melville's little jewels | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jan 04 1994 17:31 | 8 |
| As I recall Bartelby did get away with it. He had a boss a lot like
ol 'Saw's descriptions.
and my 4yr old does get away with it more often than not but he likes a
bath once in awhile...
But the spoiled child in this scenario is the fan who wants the
Kennesaw Mountain Landis approach to athletes along with '30s prices.
|
| 10.1319 | Philly, Phoenix, doesn't matter... | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Tue Jan 04 1994 17:34 | 1 |
| Charles isn't yeller and only kisses wimmin.
|
| 10.1320 | | METSNY::francus | NY Mets/NY Jets, both TRULY SUCK!!!! | Tue Jan 04 1994 18:08 | 8 |
| > But the spoiled child in this scenario is the fan who wants the
> Kennesaw Mountain Landis approach to athletes along with '30s prices.
Mac???
:-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1321 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 04 1994 18:13 | 2 |
| No, he spits on little girls instead...
|
| 10.1322 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Tue Jan 04 1994 18:23 | 4 |
| > No, he spits on little girls instead...
^^^^^ this should be singular. It's not
his fault she jumped in the way to save her father.
|
| 10.1323 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 04 1994 18:46 | 3 |
| It's his fault that he did it to begin with.
Ok, so he spits on men... that makes him a better person.
|
| 10.1324 | Okay, TCM make that... | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jan 04 1994 18:58 | 4 |
|
> Kennesaw Mountain Landis approach to athletes along with '30s prices.
[Red Auerbach] " " " " " '50s "
|
| 10.1325 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Tue Jan 04 1994 19:29 | 3 |
| spitting is a mainly thing. Everyone that plays playground ball does
it. I even saw some Croatian wimmin on the news the other night that
would put Charles' skills to shame.
|
| 10.1326 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 04 1994 19:45 | 2 |
| In spectator's faces? Yeah, that's mainly...
|
| 10.1327 | not Charles' fault | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Tue Jan 04 1994 19:46 | 1 |
| well if he ain't good enough to play, I guess he has to pay to watch.
|
| 10.1328 | leetle barb | CTHQ::LEARY | Corporate Telecom Technology Solutions | Tue Jan 04 1994 20:33 | 7 |
| Ain't Charles from the same organization which hired the NBA's
Designated A$$hole to denigrate the opposition during playoffs?
Class ballplayer, class organization.
MikeL
|
| 10.1329 | a 15 ft foot as his best shot cmon? Oakley's THE MAN! | CNTROL::CHILDS | Dan Reeves mental midget | Wed Jan 05 1994 14:03 | 10 |
|
Hey, we're talking about the Little Princess here. Plain and Simple his
ego says stay in Detriot(tm) and be their all time assists, points etc
leader. I also assume he has alot of local business that are easier to
run by staying in the Motown.........
Besides he knows those chumps in New York aren't going to win it all with
a sissyass center like Ewing so why be part of those underachievers???
mike
|
| 10.1330 | For this deal, I'd stay too | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Wed Jan 05 1994 15:06 | 31 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Subject: Thomas reportedly will retire at end of season
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 94 8:29:42 PST
DETROIT (UPI) -- Detroit Pistons guard Isiah Thomas reportedly will
retire at the end of the season after agreeing on a contract extension
worth $55 million, and he will become part-owner and general manager of
the club.
SportsChannel Chicago reported Tuesday that Thomas and the Pistons
have agreed to the deal that would give him 10 per cent ownership of
the team.
The Pistons have called a news conference for Thursday to discuss
the Thomas situation.
WMVP radio station in Chicago reported that Thomas will retire and
become vice president and general manager in addition to gaining the
interest in the Pistons as part of the $55 million agreement. Thomas
reportedly will receive a $10 million flat fee as part of the deal.
Thomas reportedly recently rejected a trade that would have sent
him to the New York Knicks.
The Detroit Free Press reported Tuesday that Thomas was offered the
opportunity to join the Knicks in exchange for forward Tony Campbell,
injured forward-center Tim McCormick and a 1994 first round pick which
originally belonged to the Houston Rockets.
Thomas met Monday with Pistons majority owner and managing partner
Bill Davidson. Davidson offered the 32-year-old Thomas the chance to
finish his All-Star career with a contending team.
The Pistons are 8-21 and in last place in the Central Division as
they undergo a rebuilding process.
Thomas, who hasn't played since Dec. 21 because of a strained right
arch, helped lead the Pistons to NBA championships in 1989 and 1990.
|
| 10.1331 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Wed Jan 05 1994 16:32 | 14 |
| Well, I've heard him say in the off season he wanted to retire a
Piston. Like I said, this doesn't surprise me. It's like Bird
saying he didn't want to go to Indiana, McHale to Minnesota, etc...
instead of being offered a chance to go home, this was for a chance
at a ring.
Only thing about the trade proposal I don't understand. The Knicks
may get a #1 from Atlanta if McCormick remains unable to play. Would
that have gone to Detriot(tm) if they had made the deal (i.e. Campbell
plus maybe 2 #1's)? That makes more sense to me than just dumping him
for Campbell and a low #1.
-Walt
|
| 10.1332 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Wed Jan 05 1994 16:51 | 4 |
| I think the pick with McCormick is Houston's. Whoever has McCormick
at draft time gets the pick.
Mike
|
| 10.1333 | A good front office vs a bad fron toffice | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Gentleness overcomes strength | Thu Jan 06 1994 17:04 | 10 |
| The Knicks just got the point guard they needed, and Dallas once again
shows that their front office is one of the worst in all of sports.
To New York: G Derek Harper
To Dallas: G/F Tony Campbell and New York's #1 draft choice in 1997.
However, if that pick is in the top five, the Knicks can reclaim it
and give the Mavs their 1998 #1 pick.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1334 | | DECWET::METZGER | Sleep deprivation is a good thing... | Thu Jan 06 1994 17:58 | 6 |
|
whata bunch of pinheads those Dallas guys are...BTW - when are they going to
admit they hired a stiff for a head coach and give him the boot and let some
deserved CBA coach come in and run the team like it should be...
Metz
|
| 10.1335 | | METSNY::francus | NY Mets/NY Jets, both TRULY SUCK!!!! | Thu Jan 06 1994 18:27 | 7 |
| GREAT trade! Well if you are a Knicks fan.
How in the world did they convince Dallas to make such a stooopid trade?
Unless Harper is injured and they didn't tell anyone this deal makes no
sense for Dallas.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1336 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Thu Jan 06 1994 18:45 | 2 |
| I would have thought they'd need McCormack to makt that trade to get
the second #1.
|
| 10.1337 | Campbell had great numbers in Minnesota | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Thu Jan 06 1994 18:57 | 2 |
| Who's the other forward alongside Mashburn? I have Campbell on one of
my rotis teams and hopefully they'll use him (if he reports).
|
| 10.1338 | Sellers market turned to Buyers market | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jan 06 1994 20:09 | 10 |
| This is the result of a sellers market (for NY) which should have been
that way for Dallas. But since they virtually have been pedalling him
for highest bidder he is useless to them, they keep losing and will be
better with Campbell hence the steal for NY, for whom Harper will
probably be superior to what they would have gotten out of (injured
guard?).
Is this the Harper of Cavalier, SDiego travels or has he been with
Dallas all along which would include salad days of Aguirre, Tarpley,
Perkins?
|
| 10.1339 | | METSNY::francus | NY Mets/NY Jets, both TRULY SUCK!!!! | Thu Jan 06 1994 20:16 | 4 |
| Harper has been with Dallas for years. He and Robertson(I think)
were at one time one of the best backcourt combos in the league.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1340 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Thu Jan 06 1994 20:19 | 5 |
| Walt,
The McCormack pick is for this year.
Mike
|
| 10.1341 | How the mightly fall and quickly | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jan 06 1994 20:31 | 6 |
| Unbelievebly fast breakup of a perennial west contender. Reminds me of
the 47-51 Redsox distintegration, early 60s (fb)Giants champions to late 60s
chumps and another NY baseball team that went from World Series Champs
to chasing expansion teams.
Not to speak of 64 AL champs Yankees to late 60s doormats.
|
| 10.1342 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Thu Jan 06 1994 20:37 | 2 |
| Harper & Blackmon were the guard tandem in Dallas' best years. Now
they're both in NY.
|
| 10.1343 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Thu Jan 06 1994 21:24 | 2 |
| Terry Davis supposed to be the forward?
|
| 10.1344 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | | Fri Jan 07 1994 12:38 | 10 |
| Why is the NY-Dallas trade so bad ? Does anyone think that Dallas
will be competing for the title in the next 2-3 years ? I suspect
trading anyone who will be done within 3-4 years for a #1 pick at
around the time when Dallas can hope to start competing (if they
draft well) is a WISE trade, not a poor one. Moreover, if NY starts
to drop off a little in the next 4 years, the pick might be better
than some would currently think.
Does anyone think that Dallas would get a lot better than this in
trade ? If so, who would give it to them ?
|
| 10.1345 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | NoTeam-NoBud | Fri Jan 07 1994 12:42 | 5 |
| The Dallas demise was due to the fact that management hitched their
wagon to Roy Tarpley who hitched his nose to a coke spoon. No excuses
for the Knicks not making the Finals now.
/Don
|
| 10.1346 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Fri Jan 07 1994 13:09 | 3 |
| Depends. Is there that big a difference between Thomas and Harper?
The Knicks offered Detriot (tm) 2 number ones in the next 2 years.
Dallas got 1 in 97. Will there even be a draft by then?
|
| 10.1347 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Fri Jan 07 1994 14:10 | 1 |
| All Dallas needs now is a coach. They have boat-loads of talent.
|
| 10.1348 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Fri Jan 07 1994 14:13 | 2 |
| Boat-loads?
|
| 10.1349 | | VAXMKT::ROBICHAUD | NoTeam-NoBud | Fri Jan 07 1994 14:17 | 3 |
| Maybe Mike meant a dinghy Walt(e)...
/Don
|
| 10.1350 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Mets/NY Jets, both TRULY SUCK!!!! | Fri Jan 07 1994 14:35 | 6 |
| Dallas has 7 #1 picks in the next 3-4 years. If they pick right they
could be a contender within 3 years. Jackson and Mashburn are already
there.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1351 | enough to win more than 2 games | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Fri Jan 07 1994 14:37 | 2 |
| Jackson, Mashburn, and Campbell are all quality players. Rooks is
pretty good as well.
|
| 10.1352 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Fri Jan 07 1994 16:21 | 4 |
| Campbell's still deciding if he wants to report. I can't call a team
with Mike Iuzzilino or Fat Lever at point guard having a boatload of
talent.
|
| 10.1353 | | DECWET::METZGER | Sleep deprivation is a good thing... | Fri Jan 07 1994 18:02 | 11 |
|
When Jackson joined the team late last season they were a better club..with the
addition of Mashburn one would expect the upward rise to continue...
The coaching sucks and the front office is too stupid to realize it...They need
a big man and it looks like they'll have one of the top choices again this
year...
Other than Monstross who are the top big men coming out this year?
Metz
|
| 10.1354 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Fri Jan 07 1994 18:53 | 8 |
| > "I don't watch NBA basketball. I prefer to watch basketball."
>
> - Bob Knight
You can blame the ABA for that. Much of what made the ABA successful
was incorporated into the NBA because it brought out the fans. The 3pt
line is the obvious one, other not so obvious ones are the tracking of
assists, steals, and blocks for which rotis fans are forever grateful.
|
| 10.1355 | One and one foul shots also help. | KALI::MORGAN | | Fri Jan 07 1994 18:56 | 5 |
| Mike, simply put, it's the traveling and ticky-tack fouls in favor of
the superstars, that make the pro game pale in comparison to the amateur
one.
Steve
|
| 10.1356 | Actually, I kinda liked the ABA ... | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Fri Jan 07 1994 19:11 | 14 |
| 10.1357 | NBA caste system has gotten disgusting | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Jan 07 1994 19:53 | 19 |
| The nba is bad enough with the observation of so many fans that a caste
system exists in regard to the calling of fouls with non lottery
rookies, white centers (ok williams and a few others) and certain
designated whipping boys (po po bill walton) at the bottom.
Instead of untouchables at the bottom the "untouchables" are barkley,
jordan (he'll be back) and the mailman.
But even worse is the tacit admission by media types (the
cousys,heinsons), print reporters and indirectly even the coaches that
rookies for example have a waiting period before they can be treated
equally.
When Roger Clemons even suggests that certain umpires call strikezones
differently there is at least (though mild, come to think about it) a
reaction from the league and umpires (and possibly retribution).
What is sport all about if not a level playing field and a scoreboard
to point to after its all done eg the opposite of life.
|
| 10.1358 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no, I'm very, very shy | Fri Jan 07 1994 20:04 | 4 |
| > I'd also reel in the 3-point line and make it a more realistic shot.
Realistic to whom? It ain't that tough to shoot when you're wide-open
(which the 3pt specialist often are).
|
| 10.1359 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Jan 10 1994 12:16 | 22 |
| 10.1360 | Where is Mike Iuzzolino when you need him? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Gentleness overcomes strength | Tue Jan 11 1994 13:55 | 7 |
| Unfortunately for the Mavs, Mike Iuzzolino signed a free agent contract
with the Magic after lasted season, but was cut. He's now playing for
the Quint City Roadkills (or some such team) in the CBA, I think.
By the way, ACC_Chris - please stick to college basketball. Thank you.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1361 | You're right NAZZ. The NBA is *perfect* as is. | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Tue Jan 11 1994 14:27 | 10 |
| > By the way, ACC_Chris [sic] - please stick to college basketball.
You don't have to ask twice. So long as the pro game remains as
patently inferior to the college brand I'll be assured of not having
the networks pull the plug on any Tar Heel telecasts.
:^)
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.1362 | I cant see the excitment of College hoop....??? | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Tue Jan 11 1994 16:31 | 15 |
| I just dont get it, every College Game I watch seems to be the same
thing, shot shot stot shot shot shot... Ok wait only a few minutes
left, foul, shot, foul, shot, foul, shot, foul, shot and then the 3
pt line that my daughter can hit from, there's a challange. Illegal
recruiting, players getting paid. The Best thing about college you
can still buy the best team without worrying about a cap :-)
I tried watching some college ball latly, seems like every night
there's a few games on my cable stations and I have to say it dont
compare, sorry maybe only Tar Heal games are exciting and I havnt
caught one yet but the games Ive tried to watch are less exciting
then Sacramento VS the Timberwolves.. (Just one mans views from his
own experiences this year)...
MaB
|
| 10.1363 | | GWEN::ASHE | Detriot(tm) Lions: 1993 NFC Cent. Champs | Tue Jan 11 1994 19:49 | 2 |
| So who backs up Fat Lever?
|
| 10.1364 | Ceballos & Pippen working on their shooting percentage | FRETZ::HEISER | Matthew 5:18 | Thu Jan 20 1994 19:41 | 19 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Bulls' star Scottie Pippen arrested on gun charge
CHICAGO (UPI) -- Chicago Bulls star forward Scottie Pippen was
arrested and jailed early Thursday for illegal possession of a gun after
a police officer noticed the weapon in his car.
Pippen's car was illegally parked on a Chicago street and was in the
process of being towed around midnight when he emerged from an address
on the city's North Side, according to Chicago police.
Lt. Patrick Logan said that when a tow truck operator and a police
officer asked him to unlock the car to assist in the towing, Pippen
refused. It was then that police noticed a .38 caliber Colt
semiautomatic pistol in full view on the car's console.
Logan said Pippen was arrested and booked for unlawful use of a
weapon at the city's 18th District headquarters and jailed. His car was
impounded.
Pippen was later released on a cash bond and had a court date set for
Feb. 23.
|
| 10.1365 | Jordan/Pippen or Barkley/Ceballos/Mustaf... | GWEN::ASHE | Thank you Dr. King. | Thu Jan 20 1994 20:14 | 2 |
| I thought Detriot(tm) used to be the bad boys...
|
| 10.1366 | whole town's going down the tubes | FRETZ::HEISER | Matthew 5:18 | Thu Jan 20 1994 20:31 | 9 |
| They're gonna film the new edition of "Cops" here in Phoenix with the
Suns as guest hosts.
- Sir Charles will do Assault & Battery
- Ceballos with special guest, Scottie Pippen, will do Firearms
- Dumas will do Narcotics
- Mustaf will handle Homicide
...and KJ will handle annoying, but serious childhood viri.
|
| 10.1367 | | GENRAL::WADE | | Fri Jan 21 1994 12:43 | 6 |
|
Man, that is just terrible that anybody would be caught
possessing a gun. Damn the 2cd ammendment! String him
up!
Claybone
|
| 10.1368 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | 26/8=3.25 --- 8 tough loses | Fri Jan 21 1994 13:39 | 11 |
|
Pippen's offence is only a misdameaner. He has a permit for the
gun. It sounds like it is not a permit for personal protection. So if
the laws are anything like Mass. He is only allowed to have the gun
in his house. Or unloaded and visible displayed on the front seat, while
on his way to/from a target practice facility.
The gun was visable displayed, but loaded. Obviously being inside
a restaurant is not coming/going to/from target practice. He spent
about 45 minutes in jail and posted a $100 bail bond.
Ron
|
| 10.1369 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Fri Jan 21 1994 13:58 | 13 |
| Aside from the fact that it's pretty dumb to leave a loaded gun on the
seat of your car, this probably won't amount to much.
Given a lack of any criminal record and given the fact that it's a
misdemeanor, Pippen probably stands a good chance of getting the
charged nollied.
I don't have my fact sheet with me on the various permit policies in the
US, so I can't give you any cold hard facts on the vagaries of the
Illinois permit requirements....
'Saw
|
| 10.1370 | | GENRAL::WADE | | Fri Jan 21 1994 14:09 | 5 |
|
Great. You need a permit to protect yourself? Glad I
don't live there.
Claybone
|
| 10.1371 | liberal Mass background is to BLAM! | FRETZ::HEISER | Matthew 5:18 | Fri Jan 21 1994 14:21 | 4 |
| I know what you mean Clay. When I first moved from Mass to AZ, I was a
little uncomfortable seeing people in the malls that were packing.
It's legal as long as it's in the open here. After so many years
though, it no longer bothers me.
|
| 10.1373 | It's bad enough as it is | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | ChildsIsWrong-ReevesIsGOD! | Fri Jan 21 1994 14:23 | 8 |
| You don't "need" a permit to carry a gun in Chicago, but it may well be
law. Like 'Saw, I don't have the rulebook with me.
But if everyone here carried a loaded semi-automatic, I'd move the hell
out of here real fast.
Spud
|
| 10.1374 | | GENRAL::WADE | | Fri Jan 21 1994 17:48 | 7 |
|
Who said anything about the NRA? I was just making an observation
about something I see as an injustice in the way Scottie Pippen
was treated. Maybe this should have been entered into the
jurisprudence note.....
Claybone
|
| 10.1375 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Jan 21 1994 18:01 | 5 |
| Injustice? He apparently violated a local law, was arraigned, paid a
low bail and will be back in the next game and probably won't even miss
a practice. If it turns out he didn't violate a law and is punished
anyway (or did and get's off because he's Scottie Pippen of the 3-Peat
Chicago Bulls), that's an injustice.
|
| 10.1376 | He didnt shoot someone for gods sake... | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Jan 21 1994 18:30 | 26 |
| He got the same treatment that a regular joe would have got and he
has to go to court in Febuary....
No injustice, No favoritism, Id say thats pretty lame... Youve never
got a break from a lawman for any reason, I got pulled over one time
by one of my father's fishing buddies and he cut me some slack, it
happens all the time, so now because he's a basketball player he
deserves worse treatment then the average joe...
I went to court one time and a kid on the dockett 3 people before me
had all the EXACT SAME CHARGES, not some, not most but all EXACTLY
the same... He gets called up, gave a smart ass coment was wearing
Levis with hole's in the knee's, a concert Tee Shirt and untied
workboots, he got $600 in total fines, When I got called up all I
could think of was whats going to happen when I cant pay the fines,
I got $55 in fines.............
Why I showed the court, judge and world respect, is that fair,
proberbly not but its part of life.
If they've ever let an aveage joe walk on the same charge should they
let pippen, no but if they had I wouldnt call it an Injustice, cops
give people breaks every day of the weak regardless of who they are
or arnt....
mab
|
| 10.1377 | | GWEN::ASHE | Thank you Dr. King. | Fri Jan 21 1994 18:52 | 3 |
| He was in jail for an hour and he was being harrassed? $100 fine?
That doesn't sound that bad to me...
|
| 10.1378 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Fri Jan 21 1994 18:54 | 63 |
| >
> He got the same treatment that a regular joe would have got and he
> has to go to court in Febuary....
>
Yeah, so. That's no big deal. Like I said earlier today, he'll probably
get the case nollied.
> No injustice, No favoritism, Id say thats pretty lame... Youve never
> got a break from a lawman for any reason, I got pulled over one time
> by one of my father's fishing buddies and he cut me some slack, it
> happens all the time, so now because he's a basketball player he
> deserves worse treatment then the average joe...
No one said that.
All I said was it's pretty dumb to leave a loaded gun on the seat of
your car.
Down here in CT, whether you've got a permit to carry or not, that's
against the law. It's either got to be on your person or in a case.
If you don't have a permit to carry, you'd better be either transporting
it home from the sale, or to or from the gunsmith, otherwise you're in
deep doo-ddo.
> I went to court one time and a kid on the dockett 3 people before me
> had all the EXACT SAME CHARGES, not some, not most but all EXACTLY
> the same... He gets called up, gave a smart ass coment was wearing
> Levis with hole's in the knee's, a concert Tee Shirt and untied
> workboots, he got $600 in total fines, When I got called up all I
> could think of was whats going to happen when I cant pay the fines,
> I got $55 in fines.............
No, it might not seem fair, but it's the rules of the game. If you're
in court, you've obviously done something that caused a cop to arrest
you or issue you a summons. You might not have done it, but the cop had
probably cause.
If you go into court with an attitude with the judge, then you deserve to
get more fines than if you go in there with respect. I've seen it time
and again.....
> Why I showed the court, judge and world respect, is that fair,
> proberbly not but its part of life.
It's a fact of human nature I think.
> If they've ever let an aveage joe walk on the same charge should they
> let pippen, no but if they had I wouldnt call it an Injustice, cops
> give people breaks every day of the weak regardless of who they are
> or arnt....
I don't think anyone said this was an injustice.....
'Saw
|
| 10.1379 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Jan 21 1994 18:56 | 3 |
| 10.1380 | | GENRAL::WADE | | Fri Jan 21 1994 19:05 | 7 |
|
I qualified my "injustice" statement, Mac. I said that *I*
see it as an injustice. I think the law stinks. My opinion,
nothing more.
Claybone
|
| 10.1381 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Fri Jan 21 1994 19:15 | 25 |
| >
> I qualified my "injustice" statement, Mac. I said that *I*
> see it as an injustice. I think the law stinks. My opinion,
> nothing more.
>
Personally, I don't have a problem with requiring a permit, as long as
a reasonable person (ie me) can get a permit in a reasonable manner.
It's situations where they want to ban handguns and stuff like that which
get my goat. Like that's really going to do anything......
As I said previously, the worst part of this whole thing was that he
left his gun on the seat. That's stupid and irresponsible, IMO.
That'd be like here in CT of not taking care to make sure your gun
is concealed. (If you're in like 7-11 and someone gets a glimpse of it,
it's well within the law for you to be cited for harassment with a weapon).
It's just good sense to know the parameters of the law and make sure that
you are responsible and operating within the law....
'Saw
|
| 10.1382 | "Do You Know who I AM?" | CNTROL::CHILDS | Betcha A$$ I hate DallA$$ | Mon Jan 24 1994 11:43 | 15 |
|
First off he was illegally parked. Second he must have been mouthin' off
about who he was and how could they dare screw with him? Cause I'm sure
they'd have let him go otherwise just like any other law abiding citzen
who feels the need to carry a gun for protection.
The dumbest reason I see for leaving a loaded gun in the car is that when
someone steals it they already got the ammo. you got figure they smash the
window grap the gun and get out of there as quickly as possible cause the
cars' got to be alarmed. Now if they have to take time to look for the
ammo they ain't going to do it 9 out of 10 times. I quess I'd carry the
ammo in my pocket. Course I'd never own one anyways....
mikey
|
| 10.1383 | | SNOFS2::THURGAR | Passion is no ordinary word | Mon Jan 24 1994 19:43 | 7 |
| Whoops, came in for my once a month catch up and I fell into a
RAT HOLE !!!
Madge
|
| 10.1384 | wow | FRETZ::HEISER | shadowlands | Mon Jan 24 1994 20:44 | 2 |
| Anyone catch Isaiah Rider's rejection of Ewing in the most recent
Woofs-Boxers game?
|
| 10.1385 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Tue Jan 25 1994 03:25 | 5 |
| yeah that block by Ryder was mentioned about a week ago. guess the Pony
Express is taking its time.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1386 | | GWEN::ASHE | Sit down, you're rockin' the boat | Tue Jan 25 1994 12:32 | 3 |
| Knicks still won... Nice block... probably the Wolves' season
highlight.
|
| 10.1387 | new All-star weekend event | FRETZ::HEISER | shadowlands | Tue Jan 25 1994 16:36 | 10 |
| Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Four players to compete in NBA shootaround
NEW YORK (UPI) -- Sharpshooters Joe Dumars of the Detroit Pistons,
Jeff Hornacek of the Philadelphia 76ers, John Starks of the New York
Knicks and Chuck Person of the Minnesota Timberwolves will compete in
the new NBA All-Star Weekend Shootaround.
The Shootaround is a test of shooting accuracy with a faster-paced
challenge. The four shooters will race the clock, attempting a series of
difficult shots from eight court positions.
|
| 10.1388 | I woulda gone to AS Sat if I still lived there :*( | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Golden Gopher hoops! | Wed Jan 26 1994 11:41 | 9 |
| I guess Person would be the token Woofie. But wait Rider should be in
the rookie game.
Walt, the highlight of the Woofies year would either be Rider's block
of Ewing or Rider stuffing it over Olajuwan. Both were VERY
impressive. This guy is only 6'5"
Spud
|
| 10.1389 | Rocky Mountain High | FRETZ::HEISER | shadowlands | Thu Jan 27 1994 13:45 | 18 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Wright admits taking Ritalin and marijuana
SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (UPI) -- Utah Jazz center Luther Wright, who was
arrested Monday and charged with disorderly conduct, admitted that he
was under the influence of Ritalin and marijuana.
Wright apparently suffered an adverse reaction to the Ritalin, which
he began taking Sunday after receiving a prescription.
The 22-year-old Wright was arrested at approximately 1 a.m. EST at a
rest stop off Interstate 80, outside Tooele, Utah. Wright was creating a
disturbance and refused to respond to a police officer.
The 7-foot-2 Wright was released to Jazz officials after they posted
$100 bond. He missed Monday's home game against Seattle and did not make
the trip to Minnesota for Wednesday night's game against the
Timberwolves.
Wright, who was the 18th pick overall in last year's draft out of
Seton Hall, is averaging 1.3 points in 15 games.
|
| 10.1390 | Human Highlight film | FRETZ::HEISER | Most Objective Analyst(tm) | Tue Feb 01 1994 13:13 | 2 |
| Last night, Dominique Wilkins became one of the few NBA players to
score 23,000 points.
|
| 10.1391 | Top 12 Rookies at the halfway mark | FRETZ::HEISER | Most Objective Analyst(tm) | Tue Feb 01 1994 15:37 | 13 |
| Team G MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK RANK DEC
WEBBER,C 35 1130 596 319 128 44 78 128.1 29.8
HARDAWAY,A 39 1437 595 196 231 98 23 121.2 26.21
BRADLEY,S 39 1106 390 246 79 40 126 106.9 18.33
VAN EXEL 38 1222 481 101 202 35 3 76.88 20.63
KUKOC,T 38 995 482 167 132 39 18 76.83 20.55
MASHBURN,J 38 1388 716 179 111 40 7 76.77 26.47
RADJA,D 40 1070 550 302 48 35 33 76.70 22.5
HURLEY,B 19 499 134 34 115 13 1 69.76 14.89
BAKER,V 38 932 367 222 40 22 53 67.79 16.55
WILSON,T 5 126 51 28 12 5 1 67.49 18.2
HUNTER,L 37 969 357 76 141 55 2 66.94 15.51
RIDER,I 38 1126 577 132 86 27 20 62.91 20.92
|
| 10.1392 | wsj on nba | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Feb 11 1994 18:11 | 10 |
| The Wall Street Journal had a front page article on David Stern and NBA
today. Talks about challenges nba faces from owner intransigence, jordan
retirement, new player contract etc.
No eyeopeners but a good summation. Stern says that Disney (corp.)
is his model ("27 magic kingdoms").
but what it didn't tell me was which way dec stock is going.
Billte
|
| 10.1393 | seems like a conference never wins both | FRETZ::HEISER | Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! | Mon Feb 14 1994 15:34 | 2 |
| Now that the East has finally won an All-Star game, does it mean that
the West will win the Championship?
|
| 10.1394 | | HANNAH::ASHE | It's a nice day for - cardigan's... | Mon Feb 14 1994 15:35 | 2 |
| Charles said God told him it would happen last year. Maybe it was a
year late?
|
| 10.1395 | somebody sell him a clue..cute 'burns though | CNTROL::CHILDS | I need a Rasberry Lollipop | Mon Feb 14 1994 15:45 | 8 |
|
Quite the show of domination put on by the Shaq...
hahaha
mike
|
| 10.1396 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! Hey! Ho! | Mon Feb 14 1994 15:47 | 4 |
| > -< somebody sell him a clue..cute 'burns though >-
nice peach fuzz too. At least Issac Hayes waited until he was a man to
grow his.
|
| 10.1397 | would be great in Boston or Phoenix | FRETZ::HEISER | ask me about my vow of silence | Thu Feb 17 1994 15:06 | 14 |
| Re: Manning string in the Trivia note
When exactly is the trading deadline anyway? It should be close.
I've heard rumors on the Celtics and Cavs because Manning's agent is
close friends with Auerbach and Embry. Other teams that are supposedly
in the running are: Orlando (Dennis Scott + picks), Miami (?),
Charlotte (?), Phoenix (either Ceballos or Majerle + picks), and the
NY Bricks (Anthony and Mason + picks).
Knowing the Clips, they'll probably let the deadline pass and get
nothing for him.
Mike
|
| 10.1398 | | METSNY::francus | Boston-TheHubOfTheUniverse | Thu Feb 17 1994 17:51 | 5 |
| > NY Bricks (Anthony and Mason + picks).
real unlikely for that to happen.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1399 | One week from today | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Bruno Kirby: Cop on the Edge | Thu Feb 17 1994 18:10 | 3 |
| Trading deadline is February 24th.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1400 | How about DC? | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Feb 17 1994 19:52 | 1 |
| Are the Celts interested in Derrick coleman?
|
| 10.1401 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Thu Feb 17 1994 20:20 | 3 |
| 10.1402 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Tue Feb 22 1994 11:55 | 8 |
| Boy, the Admiral has been burning up the league of late, dumping in 50
last night against the 'Wolves.
Question: Did the Navy waive his commitment? I can't remember. I do remember
something about him being too tall to fly and too tall for the
Submarine Service.....
'Saw
|
| 10.1403 | Always liked him. even though I hated SU | CNTROL::CHILDS | I need a Rasberry Lollipop | Tue Feb 22 1994 12:26 | 10 |
| 10.1404 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Tue Feb 22 1994 12:51 | 6 |
| re: Robinson
I beleive he served the minimum commitment to the Navy, something like 18
months. Maybe he had some sort of deal, because that seems kind of short.
=bob=
|
| 10.1405 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Tue Feb 22 1994 12:57 | 6 |
| >months. Maybe he had some sort of deal, because that seems kind of short.
I think they want a four or five year commitment if you go to the Academy.
'Saw
|
| 10.1406 | | GENRAL::WADE | My head's in Mississippi | Tue Feb 22 1994 13:50 | 4 |
|
It's 6 or 7 if you become a pilot...
Claybone
|
| 10.1407 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Tue Feb 22 1994 13:58 | 7 |
| >
> It's 6 or 7 if you become a pilot...
>
Yeah, that too, because of the extra training. But he was too tall for the
fligh program.....
|
| 10.1408 | Spurs are the hottest in the league | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Tue Feb 22 1994 14:40 | 2 |
| He became one of the few in NBA history to notch a quadruple-double
recently too.
|
| 10.1409 | | METSNY::francus | /er's heroes:VictorKiam and PatSullivan | Tue Feb 22 1994 14:40 | 7 |
| Robinson served only 2 years. Because of his height he could only serve
in a limited number of roles so the 4-5 years became 2. fwiw this is done
for anyone over a particular height so Robinson did not get special treatment.
I think he hit a 3 to get to 50 points.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1410 | | CAMONE::WAY | Horseshoes and hand-grenades, man | Tue Feb 22 1994 15:24 | 8 |
| >
>I think he hit a 3 to get to 50 points.
>
Yes, with about 5 seconds remaining.
|
| 10.1411 | | 38346::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Feb 22 1994 15:57 | 1 |
| Isn't the Admiral leading the NBA in triple-doubles these days?
|
| 10.1412 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Pay me $32mil to spew | Tue Feb 22 1994 17:28 | 1 |
| If he keeps this pace, he will be MVP...
|
| 10.1413 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Tue Feb 22 1994 18:37 | 11 |
|
Before the Spurs current winning streak I said that I thought people
were ignoring them and saying that Seattle/Houston/Phoenix were the
Western team to beat. Any new thoughts on that, or has San Antonio
finally become a contender.
BTW, I personally believe that the Spurs will win the division and be
in the Western Finals.
Marc
|
| 10.1414 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Tue Feb 22 1994 18:37 | 1 |
| 10.1415 | | 38346::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Feb 22 1994 18:38 | 4 |
| We've been hearing that the Spurs will win the division and be in the
finals since Mr.Robinson moved into the neighborhood. It hasn't
happened. Until it does, I'm not surprised people are now ignoring
them.
|
| 10.1416 | point guard??? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Tue Feb 22 1994 19:00 | 5 |
| Do they have a legitimate point guard yet? If not, they will most
likely not be in the finals.
Frank
|
| 10.1417 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Tue Feb 22 1994 19:51 | 7 |
| 10.1418 | | METSNY::francus | /er's heroes:VictorKiam and PatSullivan | Tue Feb 22 1994 19:52 | 3 |
| are Knicks on TNT tonight??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1419 | not sure | OUTSRC::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Tue Feb 22 1994 19:57 | 1 |
| 10.1420 | | HANNAH::ASHE | NY, London, Paris, Munich... | Tue Feb 22 1994 21:01 | 2 |
| They're using Vinny DelNegro as point guard..
|
| 10.1421 | Spurs chances for NBA title increase with a piasan at point | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Bruno Kirby: Cop on the Edge | Wed Feb 23 1994 12:20 | 3 |
| Vinnie is THE man!!!!
NAZZ
|
| 10.1422 | How 'bout the Azzuri capturing the Xcountry gold! | CTHQ::LEARY | Tonya's speed dial number: #* | Wed Feb 23 1994 12:26 | 9 |
| >>TNPUBS::NAZZARO "Bruno Kirby: Cop on the Edge" 3 lines 23-FEB-1994 09:20
>> -< Spurs chances for NBA title increase with a piasan at point >-
^^^^^^
Some "paisan" you are, capatosta!!!
8^)
MikeL
|
| 10.1423 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Feb 23 1994 12:53 | 7 |
| >>> Arrrgggghhh - anything but that...
Yeah, where would they play him ?? :^) So what if he's the best power
forward in the game.
Didn't the Celtics take a malcontent off someone's hands back in 1980 ???
B-b-b-but that was different.
|
| 10.1424 | ? | CTHQ::LEARY | Tonya's speed dial number: #* | Wed Feb 23 1994 13:04 | 5 |
| Malcontent in '80, malcontent in '80... ML??
Chris Ford??
MikeL
|
| 10.1425 | Great trade | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Wed Feb 23 1994 13:07 | 3 |
| Dennis Johnson.
Mike
|
| 10.1426 | meanwhile... | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Thu Feb 24 1994 12:59 | 9 |
| Da Bulls sent Stacey King to the Timberwolves for Luc Longley lasted night.
I dunno, this one seems pretty one-sided to me. Longley is on the way up. He
is young and improving. Stacey King didn't seem to be a big factor for the
Bulls.
Unless there are "other considerations" I didn't hear.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1427 | | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Golden Gopher hoops! | Thu Feb 24 1994 14:37 | 10 |
| The Bulls also get a conditional second round pick, depending how both
players perform.
I made comments over in the BOS_NBA note already, but I also feel this
trade definately favors the Bulls. I just don't understand the Woof
concept here. Maybe others are right, McClosky just doesn't know
personnel.
Spud
|
| 10.1428 | I think they swapped stiffs | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Thu Feb 24 1994 14:39 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1429 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | I've lost it. Help me find it! | Thu Feb 24 1994 14:58 | 1 |
| Thats what you get for thinking :)
|
| 10.1430 | | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Digital the Binary company 0 or 1 that's all | Thu Feb 24 1994 15:29 | 4 |
| Da Nuggets handed the BOSTON CELTICS their 10 straight loss. Extending the
Celtics loosing streak that last occurred in 1949.
Way to go Denver....
|
| 10.1431 | sad but true | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Thu Feb 24 1994 15:33 | 1 |
| Celts need the lottery more than anything right now.
|
| 10.1432 | NBA trades | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Fri Feb 25 1994 15:56 | 7 |
| Some action before the trading deadline saw at least one playoff team
improve themselves. The Jazz and Sixers swapped #2 guards named Jeff.
Hornacek is a better shooter and a more complete player and should be a
big help for the Jazz. Ironically, the Suns play in Utah tonight.
Manning goes to Atlanta for Dominique. Kind of feel sorry for 'Nique
here. I thought Manning would go to Orlando.
|
| 10.1433 | | 38346::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Feb 25 1994 16:31 | 4 |
| 10.1434 | | CAMONE::ZIOMEK | Pump up the TEST | Fri Feb 25 1994 17:19 | 2 |
| But will manning stay in Atlanta at the end of the season?
John
|
| 10.1435 | Coleman a Net for 5 years | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Fri Feb 25 1994 17:34 | 5 |
| Derrick Coleman is reported to have signed a 5 year deal worth $37.5
million. I guess the Nets learned from charlotte's fiasco with Larry
Johnson that you don't go too long term.
|
| 10.1436 | Naysayin' Mac strikes again | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Fri Feb 25 1994 18:01 | 5 |
| > Must be because he used to play for the Suns.
no just a blatantly obvious observation by anyone that knows anything
about basketball. A simple statistical comparison will yield the same
result.
|
| 10.1437 | and Ainge is still throwing the ball away and whinning | CNTROL::CHILDS | I need a Rasberry Lollipop | Mon Feb 28 1994 13:28 | 10 |
|
The Suns and the Knicks better go out and buy some more players if they
expect to make to conference finals, never mind the league finals. Very
ugly display of basketball I saw yesterday...
for the record the Suns won 92-78 and Barkley and Oakley were both ejected
for fighting. Sir Chuckie threw the first punch naturally but called it
a playful slap. Thank goodness he's retiring at the end of the year.
mike
|
| 10.1438 | Stop or I'll hit you with my purse | CTHQ::LEARY | Tonya's speed dial number: #* | Mon Feb 28 1994 13:45 | 6 |
| But Chuck and Chuck shoulda been thrown out for poor imitation of a
main.. Coupla dadgum sissies with those slaps... Made Robert Parish
look like Muhammad Ali.
MikeL
|
| 10.1439 | | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Mon Feb 28 1994 14:57 | 9 |
| >for fighting. Sir Chuckie threw the first punch naturally but called it
>a playful slap.
If you think it was anything other, I'd really hate to see how you
defend yourself. He was obviously toying with Oakley.
>Thank goodness he's retiring at the end of the year.
don't bet on it.
|
| 10.1440 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I need a Rasberry Lollipop | Mon Feb 28 1994 15:11 | 5 |
|
I didn't see it so I didn't make a comment on it just reported what Chuck
said. I only saw the second half....
mike
|
| 10.1441 | nice to see there's still some honesty in here | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Mon Feb 28 1994 15:24 | 1 |
| thanks for 'fessin up Mike and not stooping to Tommy's level.
|
| 10.1442 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Mon Feb 28 1994 15:40 | 7 |
| Actually Oakly had Barks arms, held them up, and flipped them down,
then Barks smacked him. Oakly had flung at Barklys arms with more
malice than the slap he received...
Oakly had it coming.
Chip_GSH_Bach
|
| 10.1443 | What about Ewing? | CSC32::J_HENSON | Who elected Hillary? | Mon Feb 28 1994 16:46 | 13 |
| >> <<< Note 10.1442 by CSOA1::BACH "They who know nothing, doubt nothing..." >>>
>>
>> Actually Oakly had Barks arms, held them up, and flipped them down,
>> then Barks smacked him. Oakly had flung at Barklys arms with more
>> malice than the slap he received...
I was impressed with Ewing. He stepped in, and looked like he took
a hit to the face from Barkley. He acted like he didn't even notice
and just stood his ground. He demonstrated a lot of poise and
self-control.
Jerry
|
| 10.1444 | | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Mon Feb 28 1994 16:48 | 5 |
| > -< What about Ewing? >-
yeah he only scored 1 point the whole 4th quarter against Mark West,
which only further proves my point that West should be starting over
Miller.
|
| 10.1445 | | CSC32::J_HENSON | Who elected Hillary? | Mon Feb 28 1994 16:52 | 13 |
| >> <<< Note 10.1444 by FRETZ::HEISER "shut up 'n' jam!" >>>
>>> -< What about Ewing? >-
>> yeah he only scored 1 point the whole 4th quarter against Mark West,
>> which only further proves my point that West should be starting over
> Miller.
So what? My point had nothing to do with the way he played the game,
only the way in which he handled that situation, which was very good.
Jerry
|
| 10.1446 | | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Mon Feb 28 1994 16:53 | 2 |
| I thought Barkley handled the situation well too. The only one that
lost it was Oakley.
|
| 10.1447 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is four years old!!!! | Mon Feb 28 1994 17:04 | 6 |
| re: .1446
I'm really surprised YOU would take that position, Mike.
Nexted thang you know, Mac will stick up for the Red Sox.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1448 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Long lost recipe | Mon Feb 28 1994 17:17 | 5 |
| So Mike, are you saying Barkley isn't retiring? Of course most
boxers don't retire for good until what, their 6th retirement
announcment? Chuck fits in. Part time boxer, part time BBall player.
Tim
|
| 10.1449 | | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Mon Feb 28 1994 17:24 | 6 |
| With Chuck missing this year's All-Star game, and next year's being in
Phoenix, I'd bet he'll be back.
BTW - does anyone else think they should bring back the one-on-one and
horse games like in the old All-Star games? Paul Westphal won it one
year.
|
| 10.1450 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | RIP-PeaceInTheMideast | Mon Feb 28 1994 18:41 | 3 |
| Oakley would've killed Barkley if they fought like real men.
/Don
|
| 10.1451 | | HANNAH::ASHE | One of the sweethearts at Digital | Mon Feb 28 1994 19:05 | 3 |
| West held Ewing or did Ewing hold Ewing? I thought Ewing was in a
slump...
|
| 10.1452 | doesn't look like a slump | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Mon Feb 28 1994 19:19 | 1 |
| in the game before, Ewing was 14 for 21 against Mutombo.
|
| 10.1453 | | HANNAH::ASHE | One of the sweethearts at Digital | Mon Feb 28 1994 20:26 | 2 |
| The two games before that he was shooting around 30%, right?
|
| 10.1454 | But they lost that game as well | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Digital the Binary company 0 or 1 that's all | Mon Feb 28 1994 21:21 | 3 |
| >in the game before, Ewing was 14 for 21 against Mutombo.
With a excellent loss
|
| 10.1455 | playoff standings and first round matchups | FRETZ::HEISER | shut up 'n' jam! | Tue Mar 01 1994 16:09 | 35 |
| 10.1456 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Soxs 3-0, Parade in October | Mon Mar 07 1994 12:30 | 8 |
|
in the original Nike Ad for best two on two teammate, Humpty Hump at the
very end of the commercial after watching Zo' jam one exclaims "Smooth
Butter Baby".
What the hell does this expression mean???
mike
|
| 10.1457 | | CAMONE::WAY | Whitewatergate | Mon Mar 07 1994 12:35 | 12 |
| > in the original Nike Ad for best two on two teammate, Humpty Hump at the
> very end of the commercial after watching Zo' jam one exclaims "Smooth
> Butter Baby".
>
> What the hell does this expression mean???
I don't know, but it's vaguely reminiscent of an expression that Dan
Schneider told me a former customer used to use. At the end of the
day the guy would stand up, and say "Stuff my butt with butter", and
that was it for the day.
Could be related.......
|
| 10.1459 | No cakewalk for the Knicks | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Mon Mar 07 1994 18:52 | 7 |
| The Eastern playoffs look real unpredictable. Indiana,Clevelnad,Orlando
and Miami are playing great.
The Knicks are treading water,Chicago is falling apart and Atlanta
looks for real.
|
| 10.1460 | NJ now, Charlotte maybe | HBAHBA::HAAS | xen yen zen | Mon Mar 07 1994 19:18 | 7 |
| Meanwhile, the Hornets are going to have to play catchup if'n they want
to get back to the playoffs. The other team in the East is the Nets who
have about a 6 game lead over Charlotte.
Zo comes back tomorrow for the game against the visiting Suns.
TTom
|
| 10.1461 | The rich get richer. | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Mar 07 1994 19:42 | 4 |
| Here's a scary thought. If Charlotte misses the playoffs, Seattle
gets a lottery pick this year.
Ken
|
| 10.1462 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Mar 07 1994 19:43 | 4 |
| I thought that pick was conditional? In other words Seattle got something
else if that pick was a lottery pick.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1463 | | FRETZ::HEISER | the rock cries out! | Mon Mar 07 1994 19:56 | 8 |
| Re: 'Nique
and that's why Lenny didn't get along with him.
Re: Zo
Isn't LJ supposed to suit up against the Suns too? Phoenix and
Charlotte are 2 preseason faves heading in the same direction.
|
| 10.1464 | Charlotte Overpaid. | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Mar 07 1994 20:04 | 9 |
| Nope. Here's how it went. As part of the Gill deal, Charlotte got
the option to swap their pick for Seattle's, which was actually Philly's
-- previously acquired from Phoenix in the Xavier McDaniel deal and
previously acquired from Philly in the Jayson Willaims deal. Then,
Charlotte deal a bunch of stuff, including that option to switch picks,
to Philly. So the net result is that Philly has their pick, Seattle
has Charlotte's pick, and Charlotte has no 1994 first round pick.
Ken
|
| 10.1465 | LJ, no; Zo, maybe | HBAHBA::HAAS | xen yen zen | Mon Mar 07 1994 20:58 | 13 |
| > -< Charlotte Overpaid. >-
With what's happened to the team thised year, you ain't gonna get any
arguments outta me.
The thinking was that the pick was not worth that much so it wasn't
considered all that bad to throw it away/in on the deal.
As to LJ and Zo, LJ is *NOT* going to play tomorrow. The team isn't even
talking about it. Zo is a possible for tomorrow but no one's saying fer
sure that this will happen.
TTom
|
| 10.1466 | CLARI article on draft picks | HBAHBA::HAAS | xen yen zen | Mon Mar 07 1994 21:01 | 48 |
| Here's the CLARI article which hopefully explains the draft pick issue
with Charlotte, Seattle and Philadelphia.
TTom
Article: 9508
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Hawkins traded from Philadelphia to Charlotte
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 13:59:23 PDT
PHILADELPHIA (UPI) -- Philadelphia 76ers guard Hersey Hawkins was
traded to the Charlotte Hornets Friday in exchange for three players and
a 1994, first-round draft choice.
The 76ers will receive guard Dana Barros, veteran forward Sidney
Green and the rights to guard Greg Graham, the Hornets' first-round pick
in 1993, as well as the option to switch 1994 first-round picks with
Seattle.
The deal comes two days after the Hornets traded guard Kendall Gill
to the Seattle SuperSonics for Barros, swingman Eddie Johnson and the
possibility of a switch of first round picks in the 1994 draft.
The draft choice in Friday's trade will be the highest of Charlotte
and Seattle's picks in the first round next year. Seattle's pick will be
the highest of their own, Philadelphia's and Phoenix's first rounders.
Hawkins, 26, will replace Gill in the starting lineup at shooting
guard. Hawkins averaged 20.3 points, 4.3 rebounds and 3.9 assists for
Philadelphia last season. Hawkins was a first-round draft choice in 1988
and spent the first five seasons of his NBA career with Philadelphia.
He was named to NBA All-Star team in 1991.
``We are very excited to acquire a quality guard like Hersey Hawkins,
'' said Hornets President Spencer Stolpen. ``Adding a player of Hersey's
caliber to our club is the type of move that we have been working
towards, one that enhances the present and future of this organization.''
Barros, 26, averaged 7.8 points and 2.2 assists in 69 games off the
bench for Seattle in 1992-93. He connected on 38 percent of his three-
point attempts last year after entering the season ranked third on the
all-time three-point accuracy list.
Barros will likely be used as a shooting guard off the bench by
Philadelphia. He will back up starters Johnny Dawkins and Jeff Hornacek.
Green, 32, will be joining his sixth team in his 10th NBA season. The
6-9, 250-pound forward averaged 2.4 points in primarily a reserve role
for the Hornets last season.
Graham was one of two first-round picks of Charlotte and the 17th
overall selection in the 1993 draft. The 6-4, 183-pound guard from
Indiana was the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year and averaged 16.5
points per game last season. Graham was the first player in Big 10
history to lead the league in field goal percentage (.551) and three-
point shooting (.514) in the same season.
|
| 10.1467 | | FRETZ::HEISER | the rock cries out! | Mon Mar 07 1994 21:05 | 3 |
| For the 3rd time in the last month, the Admiral wins Player of the
Week. I heard Cedric Ceballos won it last week, but will have to
confirm that.
|
| 10.1468 | Top 11 rookies | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Thu Mar 10 1994 18:57 | 12 |
| Player G Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rating DEC
WEBBER,C 55 32.05 17.25 9.182 3.582 3.327 126.2 30.02
HARDAWAY,A 57 36.84 15.58 5.246 6.175 3.088 124.2 27
BRADLEY,S 49 28.27 10.29 6.245 2 3.918 102.6 18.53
BAKER,V 57 29.18 12.09 7.123 1.491 2.211 82.17 20.70
MASHBURN,J 58 37.34 19.83 4.776 3.172 1.362 81.57 27.78
VAN EXEL,N 56 33.13 13.18 2.839 5.339 1.089 79.43 21.36
KUKOC,T 51 25.67 11.82 4.157 3.725 1.686 79.29 19.71
RADJA,D 57 27.35 14.21 7.263 1.298 1.825 78.44 22.77
HUNTER,L 57 25.84 9.842 2.123 3.877 1.474 67.05 15.84
LYNCH,G 45 23.53 9.556 5.422 1.2 1.822 65.20 16.18
RIDER,I 55 30.15 16.05 3.673 2.327 1.109 63.49 22.05
|
| 10.1469 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Whitewater <<< Contra (and Bush knew!) | Thu Mar 10 1994 19:12 | 3 |
| 10.1470 | | METSNY::francus | dueling p_names | Thu Mar 10 1994 19:13 | 2 |
|
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1471 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Nah, cain't do politics in ::SPROTS | Thu Mar 10 1994 19:15 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1472 | | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Thu Mar 10 1994 19:53 | 1 |
| Bob, L.A. also has George Lynch in the top 15 rooks.
|
| 10.1473 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Whitewater<<<Contra (Bush knew) | Thu Mar 10 1994 20:02 | 4 |
| 10.1474 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Clinton had 3 Feds murdered @Waco | Thu Mar 10 1994 20:04 | 2 |
| Maybe not. The Celts will have a lottery pick this year and will have
some extra $$ to go after a name player.
|
| 10.1475 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Mar 10 1994 20:07 | 2 |
| Manning has been saying that he wants to sign with a contender. I
guess that rules out the Celts.
|
| 10.1476 | It looks like years, as in better part of a decade... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu Mar 10 1994 20:37 | 12 |
|
Yeah, but with that new lottery formula, unless they fix the thing
again ;-) the Celtics are almost certainly going to get a pretty
boring pick, and with the expansion in recent years and general
crappy level of talent at the bottom of the league that may be the
case for some years to come. The whole damn structure of the league
from the draft to the salary cap to the number of teams makes the
outlook pretty depressing from the viewpoint of a Celtics' fan.
There's just almost nothing you can do about your own situation.
glenn
|
| 10.1477 | Mac, are you watching this guy now??? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Mar 10 1994 21:18 | 2 |
| >BAKER,V 57 29.18 12.09 7.123 1.491 2.211 82.17 20.70
|
| 10.1478 | have to be in the worst 4 | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Thu Mar 10 1994 22:02 | 2 |
| During the 13-game losing streak, someone in CELTICS stated that Boston
was only 4 games out of being guaranteed a top 4 pick.
|
| 10.1479 | | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Mar 11 1994 12:28 | 20 |
|
> -< have to be in the worst 4 >-
>
> During the 13-game losing streak, someone in CELTICS stated that Boston
> was only 4 games out of being guaranteed a top 4 pick.
Even then, there's no such guarantee because there's a good chance that
one of the 7 non-bottom-4 teams will win one of the 3 lottery prize spots,
pushing everyone back a spot. Plus, when you're trying to "overtake"
a team with less than 20 wins, 4 games is significant. What is needed
by the Celtics is a total and complete tank job. Which when you think
about what the goal of each and every game should be is a pretty shameful
outlook, but the reality of the situation. The stakes for these draft
picks are just too damn high for the league's own good. There's no
real solution to it; as opposed to the other big three sports there are
only a few stud players to come out every year and everyone knows who
they are and where they need to rank to get them.
glenn
|
| 10.1480 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Mar 11 1994 13:02 | 6 |
| re: .1473
Ain't that wonderful!
The Crazy met
|
| 10.1481 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | 26/8=3.25 --- 8 tough loses | Fri Mar 11 1994 13:26 | 5 |
|
You have to be optimistic, Glen Robinson will announce he is
turning pro. Then the ping pong balls will fall right for the C's and
they get the number 1 pick. Is it asking to much to get the next
great player from Indiana?
|
| 10.1482 | Robinson not sure Boston pick | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Fri Mar 11 1994 14:16 | 2 |
| Wouldn't the Celts use their number 1 overall pick to take Bill Curley
of BC? He's big,local and fits the Celtic's image.
|
| 10.1483 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | If only John Thompson would retire | Fri Mar 11 1994 14:37 | 7 |
|
Given Gavitt's ties to the BE and Bird's feeling that Donyell Marshall is
the best college player, I would think if Marshall declares the Celtics
would take him instead of Robinson. Although they ought to shop Douglass
and take Jason Kidd if he declares.........
mike
|
| 10.1484 | WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!? | WREATH::SCOPA | | Fri Mar 11 1994 15:07 | 5 |
| If they draft Curley than Gavitt will really be targeted by the media.
Marshall or Kidd would be much more preferable.
Maj
|
| 10.1485 | Curley ?, yeah right. | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Fri Mar 11 1994 15:28 | 8 |
| Curley is second round material or late first round at best.
Don't forget Grant Hill, he is a complete package (shooter, defender,
passer, etc...). Put him at the point on the offensive end
at the 2 guard at the defensive end, move sherm to the bench, and hope
Dee matures a bit.
Jalen Rose is similar (if he comes out)
|
| 10.1486 | | SKEWED::MCKAY | | Fri Mar 11 1994 15:46 | 4 |
| Curley has to be in the top 28 players coming out this year.
I'd guess he'll go between 17 - 23.
Jimbo
|
| 10.1488 | and I'm a Michigan fan | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Fri Mar 11 1994 15:50 | 1 |
| Jalen Rose is one of the worst excuses for a point guard around.
|
| 10.1489 | Just kidding | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Fri Mar 11 1994 15:56 | 2 |
| The comment I made about Curley was totally tounge in cheek. I like him
better than Stiff(tm) at this point.
|
| 10.1490 | Let's face it; he's a Celtic... it's already been decided | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Fri Mar 11 1994 16:10 | 7 |
|
I'd take Montross. Curley is okay but he doesn't eat up the kind of
space that Montross does. By NBA standards if you're not super-quick
at that size you'd better be able to at least hold your ground...
glenn
|
| 10.1491 | okay, you're crazy | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Fri Mar 11 1994 16:10 | 13 |
| yes, yes, Curley has been more productive tnan The Stiff, but he's only
6-9 and there alot more of them (6-9 ish power forwards) available than
7-0's who can walk & chew gum at the same time (you'll grant me that,
if nothing else). Particularly in this draft (Perhaps NBA-GM's are crossing
their fingers hoping Constantine Popa will declare early).
I like Curley but I see Adam Keefe/Scott Hastings written all over
him and for some reason, I don't see Joe Kleine, written all over
Montross
call me crazy,
KB
|
| 10.1492 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Fri Mar 11 1994 16:38 | 13 |
| Re.
> Jalen Rose is one of the worst excuses for a point guard around.
He won't play point in the NBA.
> and I'm a Michigan fan
Then you've probably watched a lot of their games this season and know that
Rose hasn't played point. He's spent this season at the small forward spot
while Dugan Fife is the point.
Ken
|
| 10.1493 | | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Fri Mar 11 1994 17:06 | 12 |
| >He won't play point in the NBA.
obviously.
>Then you've probably watched a lot of their games this season and know that
only the occasional national free-TV games. Last year's title game
put the nail in his coffin. If he was a true point guard, and didn't
shy away from pressure, the Wolverines wouldn't have had to have their
#1 option bring the ball up court. In that scenario, with a real point
guard bringing up the ball, Webber would've been free to get open
underneath.
|
| 10.1494 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Question: Why is that every time I... | Mon Mar 14 1994 17:34 | 4 |
| I'd guess Celt's would have what around the #7 pick? Look for Dallas
to take Kidd, Detroit to take Robinson and Philly or Washington to take
Marshall... maybe Washington would take Montross...
|
| 10.1495 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Mon Mar 14 1994 17:58 | 19 |
| RE <<< Note 10.1494 by HANNAH::ASHE "Question: Why is that every time I..." >>>
> I'd guess Celt's would have what around the #7 pick? Look for Dallas
> to take Kidd, Detroit to take Robinson and Philly or Washington to take
> Marshall... maybe Washington would take Montross...
Did the NBA do away with their lottery for low picks? Use to be that the
teams that didn't make the playoffs drew for drafting order, did they abandon
that scheme?
The last time I paid attention was back in the mid 80's when the Celtics
traded Gerald Henderson to Seattle for their 1st round pick the following year.
When the time came up, the Celtics drew 3rd in the order and drafted Len Bias
who died of Cocaine overdoes the following day.
Just think, the Celtics should have Reggie Lewis and Len Bias playing at their
prime right now. Talk about sad. :*({
George
|
| 10.1496 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Mon Mar 14 1994 18:10 | 7 |
| NBA still does a lottery for the first 3 picks; it is weighed in favor
of the worse teams. After the top 3 picks, the other teams are ranked
in reverse order of finish. So the worst team in the league is
guaranteed at least the 4th pick in the draft.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1497 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Mar 14 1994 18:31 | 5 |
| If Rozier comes out, he'll definitely go before Montross. He's strong
enough so that he could probably see some time at the center spot in
addition to his more natural power forward role.
Ken
|
| 10.1498 | | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Wed Mar 16 1994 19:01 | 2 |
| Nice for the Houston PD let Vernon Maxwell out of jail so he could play
against the Blazers last night.
|
| 10.1499 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Question: Why is that every time I... | Wed Mar 16 1994 20:28 | 1 |
| He was in 11 hours more than Pippen was for a similar charge...
|
| 10.1500 | SNARF! | FRETZ::HEISER | impeach the President and her husband | Wed Mar 16 1994 20:29 | 1 |
| ...and Texas of all places!
|
| 10.1501 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Mar 17 1994 12:09 | 5 |
| 10.1502 | | FRETZ::HEISER | can you see who I am thru those eyes | Thu Mar 17 1994 14:01 | 2 |
| Texas meaning it's gun laws don't seem to be as pathetic as
Massachusetts'.
|
| 10.1503 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Mar 17 1994 14:03 | 6 |
| re: .1501
Ron Darling, etc in 1986
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1504 | | FRETZ::HEISER | can you see who I am thru those eyes | Thu Mar 17 1994 14:05 | 4 |
| > occurance especially in the Houston area -- James Worthy, Roger
I thought Worthy was arrested in Houston for putting a while new
meaning to the low-post double spin move.
|
| 10.1505 | | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Thu Mar 17 1994 14:06 | 4 |
| I thought it was in Seattle that Worthy was, er, busted.
MikeL
|
| 10.1506 | | FRETZ::HEISER | can you see who I am thru those eyes | Thu Mar 17 1994 14:13 | 2 |
| No it was Houston, I remember it well. Doc was trying to defend
Houston's honor afterwards.
|
| 10.1507 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | Gotta go running - April's coming | Wed Mar 23 1994 11:57 | 7 |
| So what was everyone saying about the Lakers being on the way back?
In a brilliant move, Dr. Buss has fired Randy Pfund (after I heard for two
years about how he was one of the great new coaches), and hired Ervin "Magic"
Johnson as coach. No, Magic has no coaching experience.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1508 | side show atmosphere | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Wed Mar 23 1994 12:15 | 9 |
|
Yabbut what do you think of the potential of Coach "Magic" pulling
a coach/player move like Russell?
I remain,
thinking the Fakers would do it to increase attendance!
Kev
|
| 10.1509 | Financial Move | WREATH::SCOPA | | Wed Mar 23 1994 13:08 | 9 |
| The guy has no coaching experience but he'll put fannies in the seats.
The Lakers are bad enough but now when they have a shot at winning a
game they are likely to be outcoached.
Doesn't this smack of the Jordan baseball deal where an owner wants
his money's worth from a services contract?
Maj
|
| 10.1510 | | HANNAH::ASHE | like sands thru the hourglass, so were the days of his lives | Wed Mar 23 1994 14:06 | 3 |
| Plus, how much did John Lucas have? Aren't point guards the ones who
run the plays anyway?
|
| 10.1511 | | BALL4::KURAS | Spring hopes eternal | Wed Mar 23 1994 14:57 | 2 |
| Didn't Lucas have some coaching experience with a minor league team in
Florida?
|
| 10.1512 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed Mar 23 1994 15:06 | 1 |
| He can't do any worse than Quinn Buckner.
|
| 10.1513 | the Miami Rehabs | HBAHBA::HAAS | xen yen zen | Wed Mar 23 1994 15:34 | 6 |
| Lucas coached a team of ex-druggies in the USBL, I think. Roy Tarpley
played for them, among others. Richard Dumas, maybe? Chris Washburn
played long enough to get thrown off the team as he went down for the
count another time.
TTom
|
| 10.1514 | | FRETZ::HEISER | PoliticalSuicide:Whitewater&LindaThompson | Wed Mar 23 1994 17:17 | 2 |
| yeah Tarpley and Dumas were the #1 and #2 scorers in the CBA while
Lucas coached them.
|
| 10.1515 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | MenWithHandsInPocketFeelCocky! | Mon Mar 28 1994 14:21 | 1 |
| Looks like he 1-0 now.
|
| 10.1516 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | TFO has been TFSO'd | Mon Mar 28 1994 15:51 | 7 |
| > Looks like he 1-0 now.
HEY!! It's not nice to make fun of the way Magic talks, especially now
that he isn't an announcer.
brews
|
| 10.1517 | | HANNAH::ASHE | like sands thru the hourglass, so were the days of his lives | Mon Mar 28 1994 16:13 | 2 |
| Almost blew a 36 pt. lead too..
|
| 10.1518 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | MenWithHandsInPocketFeelCocky! | Mon Mar 28 1994 17:31 | 1 |
| Almost only counts in horseshoes and.....oh never mind :-)
|
| 10.1519 | so true | OURGNG::RIGGEN | How to parlay 1K into 100K by Hillary R. | Wed Mar 30 1994 21:35 | 6 |
| "The good news - he has finnally begun to play like Dolph. The bad news - Dolph
is 63 years old."
Rotisserie League Basketball
On former Denver Nugget Danny Schayes
|
| 10.1520 | Boy did old Dolph cause Couz and C's headaches | AKOCOA::BREEN | Till Time Shall be no More | Wed Mar 30 1994 21:48 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1521 | KJ doesn't make the cut | HBAHBA::HAAS | The karma ran over my dogma | Thu Mar 31 1994 18:48 | 22 |
| Article: 12437
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: O'Neal, Miller Make Team USA
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 14:50:22 PST
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) -- Shaquille O'Neal of the Orlando
Magic and Reggie Miller of the Indiana Pacers, as expected, were
the final two players selected to the USA team that will compete in
this summer's basketball World Championships.
The announcement Wednesday was made by USA Basketball National
Team Committee chairman Rod Thorn.
The tournament will be played Aug. 4-14 in Toronto and Hamilton,
Ontario.
The other team members are Derrick Coleman of the New Jersey
Nets; Detroit's Joe Dumars; Tim Hardaway, Golden State; Larry
Johnson, Charlotte; Shawn Kemp, Seattle; Dan Majerle, Phoenix;
Alonzo Mourning, Charlotte; Mark Price, Cleveland; Steve Smith,
Miami; Isiah Thomas, Detroit, and Dominique Wilkins, Atlanta.
Golden State coach Don Nelson is the head coach and his staff
will include Don Chaney of the Pistons, Rick Majerus of Utah and
Pete Gillen, newly named coach at Providence.
|
| 10.1522 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Mar 31 1994 18:52 | 7 |
| TTom,
does that mean KJ is not the best guard in the NBA????
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1523 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu Mar 31 1994 18:53 | 3 |
| C'mon TCM, even MikeH will tell you that the best guards in the NBA are
out of Chicago since they are the ones who are wearing the champeenship
rings.
|
| 10.1524 | got the mind so it dont matter | HBAHBA::HAAS | The karma ran over my dogma | Thu Mar 31 1994 18:58 | 6 |
| The best guard? It's probably a toss up between KJ and Kendall Gill.
Unless, of course, you count everyone else's opinion other than the 2
above, you might get some different result.
TTom
|
| 10.1525 | | FRETZ::HEISER | another day in DECrestaurant | Thu Mar 31 1994 19:09 | 3 |
| Mac, the best guard (2-guard) in Chicago retired. If I was starting a
team, there's only a few of the current point guards that I would
consider and none of them play in Chicago.
|
| 10.1526 | | HANNAH::ASHE | like sands thru the hourglass, so were the days of his lives | Thu Mar 31 1994 19:51 | 2 |
| I'd start with Mookie...
|
| 10.1527 | Anderson | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:17 | 1 |
| Kenny Anderson
|
| 10.1528 | what no John Stockton? | FRETZ::HEISER | another day in DECrestaurant | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:21 | 1 |
| What about the all-time assist leader?
|
| 10.1529 | you got that right Walt | CNTROL::CHILDS | breakin' rocks, in the hot sun | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:31 | 6 |
|
take your all time assist leader and jam him. we want a tough guy.
we want a guy who can stick it from anywhere. we want a guy who can
defend anybody we want MOOKIE MOOKIE MOOKIE MOOKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mike
|
| 10.1530 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | breakin' rocks, in the hot sun | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:33 | 5 |
|
speaking of point guards, Nazz and I will gladly pay someone to take
Sherman Douglas way way way far away!!!!!!!!!!!
mike
|
| 10.1531 | re: .1530 - and hel the Celts with their salary cap, ha! | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:33 | 8 |
| Stockton is older than those guys.
Besides take Stockton and put him on a team that Karl Malone
isn't on and see how high the assist totals are - good but
probably not the numbers he currently gets.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1532 | I like Mookie | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:34 | 7 |
| Blaylock sure is the straw that stirs the drink in Hotlanta
Manning has a second straw...
He is mucho-tough
MikeL
|
| 10.1533 | #2 for Kenny!!!!! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:45 | 16 |
|
Yabbut speaking of my man, Kenny Anderson, wasn't that a GREAT
article in SI????
I hope everybody saw the picture of him in the Archbishop Molloy
uniform.
I will accept requests for copies of the article
;^)
I remain,
like the Beach Boys sing, "true to your school"
Kev
|
| 10.1534 | | FRETZ::HEISER | another day in DECrestaurant | Thu Mar 31 1994 20:57 | 6 |
| I can't believe I'm defending Stockton, but in addition to assists,
he's always among the steals leaders.
A healthy Tim Hardaway won't steer you wrong. Same with a healthy KJ.
I agree though, Mookie sure has come into his own the past 2 seasons.
Atlanta should've kept Dominique as well.
|
| 10.1535 | non-exsistant | CNTROL::CHILDS | breakin' rocks, in the hot sun | Thu Mar 31 1994 21:32 | 10 |
|
> I can't believe I'm defending Stockton, but in addition to assists,
> he's always among the steals leaders.
Bird used to be amoungst the leaders in steals and what was the
book on his defense?
mike
|
| 10.1536 | | FRETZ::HEISER | another day in DECrestaurant | Thu Mar 31 1994 21:33 | 5 |
| > Bird used to be amoungst the leaders in steals and what was the
> book on his defense?
Better team defender than man-to-man defender. He made the 2nd
All-Defensive team in '83-'84.
|
| 10.1537 | good thing Mad Max was around | CNTROL::CHILDS | breakin' rocks, in the hot sun | Thu Mar 31 1994 21:53 | 11 |
|
> Bird used to be amoungst the leaders in steals and what was the
> book on his defense?
>> Better team defender than man-to-man defender. He made the 2nd
>> All-Defensive team in '83-'84.
like he really deserve it. face it, he was white and he was a savior
he got the award because of who he was, not his play.........
mike
|
| 10.1538 | | FRETZ::HEISER | another day in DECrestaurant | Thu Mar 31 1994 21:55 | 2 |
| Don't know about that. He was that bad when he was younger and still
mobile. As he grew older, he became a defensive liability.
|
| 10.1539 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | breakin' rocks, in the hot sun | Thu Mar 31 1994 21:58 | 8 |
| <<< Note 10.1538 by FRETZ::HEISER "another day in DECrestaurant" >>>
Don't know about that. He was that bad when he was younger and still
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mobile. As he grew older, he became a defensive liability.
geez Mike you didn't leave me no room to argue... ;^)
|
| 10.1540 | sorry, maybe next time | FRETZ::HEISER | another day in DECrestaurant | Thu Mar 31 1994 22:01 | 1 |
| Woops! Okay make that "wasn't"
|
| 10.1541 | When's the next train outta town? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Fri Apr 01 1994 14:59 | 3 |
| I'll definitely help pack Sherm's bags for him!
NAZZ
|
| 10.1542 | DT II schedule | HBAHBA::HAAS | The karma ran over my dogma | Thu Apr 07 1994 16:06 | 21 |
| article 12571
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: USA Hoop Team Sets Exhibitions
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 18:40:15 PDT
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) -- The NBA team that will compete in
this summer's world championships will play exhibition games July
26 at Charlotte, N.C., and July 31 at Oakland, Calif.
Dream Team II, which will train July 20-30 at Moody Bible
Institute in Chicago, will play the German national team at
Charlotte and the USA Goodwill Games team at Oakland.
The American team, coached by Don Nelson of Golden State,
includes Derrick Coleman of New Jersey, Joe Dumars of Detroit, Tim
Hardaway of Golden State, Larry Johnson of Charlotte, Shawn Kemp of
Seattle, Dan Majerle of Phoenix, Reggie Miller of Indiana, Alonzo
Mourning of Charlotte, Shaquille O'Neal of Orlando, Mark Price of
Cleveland, Steve Smith of Miami, Isiah Thomas of Detroit and
Dominique Wilkins of the Los Angeles Clippers.
The world championships are scheduled Aug. 4-14 at Toronto and
Hamilton, Ontario.
|
| 10.1543 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Long lost recipe | Fri Apr 08 1994 21:07 | 6 |
| re-1
Tim Hardaway is on this team? He hasn't played in 2 years because of
injuries. I think he's an excellent player, but maybe someone else who
has played should get to go in his place..
Tim
|
| 10.1544 | re tim hardaway | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Mon Apr 11 1994 12:17 | 1 |
| I think Isiah Thomas has been given his slot already
|
| 10.1545 | what's left | HBAHBA::HAAS | The karma ran over my dogma | Mon Apr 11 1994 16:23 | 92 |
| Article: 12642
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (The Associated Press)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Playoff Races
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 20:10:11 PDT
EASTERN CONFERENCE
W L Pct GB
x-New York 52 22 .703 -
x-Atlanta 52 23 .693 1/2
x-Chicago 51 24 .680 1 1/2
x-Orlando 45 29 .608 7
Cleveland 42 33 .560 10 1/2
Miami 40 35 .533 12 1/2
New Jersey 40 35 .533 12 1/2
Indiana 39 35 .527 13
Charlotte 35 39 .473 17 1/2
x-clinched playoff berth
Remaining Games
NEW YORK (8) -- HOME (4): April 11, Orlando; 15, Washington;
19, Atlanta; 21, Philadelphia. AWAY (4): April 14, Washington; 17,
Charlotte; 22, Milwaukee; 24, Chicago.
ATLANTA (7) -- HOME (3): April 13, Cleveland; 16, Philadelphia;
23, Orlando. AWAY (4): April 15, Milwaukee; 18, Chicago; 19, New York;
21, Miami.
CHICAGO (7) -- HOME (4): April 12, New Jersey; 18, Atlanta;
22, Boston; 24, New York. AWAY (3): April 13, Miami; 15, Charlotte;
17, Orlando.
ORLANDO (8) -- HOME (4): April 14, Charlotte; 17, Chicago;
20, Minnesota; 24, New Jersey. AWAY (4): April 11, New York; 15, Boston;
19, Detroit; 23, Atlanta.
CLEVELAND (7) -- HOME (4): April 12, Milwaukee; 15, Miami;
22, Washington; 24, Boston. AWAY (3): April 13, Atlanta; 16, Milwaukee;
20, Indiana.
MIAMI (7) -- HOME (4): April 13, Chicago; 17, New Jersey; 19,
Minnesota; 21, Atlanta. AWAY (3): April 11, Charlotte; 15, Cleveland;
23, Indiana.
NEW JERSEY (7) -- HOME (2): April 15, Detroit; 23, Milwaukee.
AWAY (5): April 12, Chicago; 13, Milwaukee; 17, Miami; 19, Philadelphia;
24, Orlando.
INDIANA (8) -- HOME (4): April 11, Boston; 20, Cleveland; 22,
Philadelphia; 23, Miami. AWAY (4): April 13, Philadelphia; 15, Minnesota;
17, Detroit; 19, Washington.
CHARLOTTE (8) -- HOME (5): April 11, Miami; 15, Chicago; 17,
New York; 20, Washington; 23, Detroit. AWAY (3): April 14, Orlando;
21, Boston; 24, Washington.
------
WESTERN CONFERENCE
W L Pct
y-Seattle 57 18 .760 -
x-Houston 54 20 .730 2 1/2
x-San Antonio 52 23 .693 5
x-Phoenix 49 26 .653 8
x-Utah 47 28 .627 10
x-Portland 45 30 .600 12
x-Golden State 43 31 .581 13 1/2
Denver 37 37 .500 19 1/2
L.A. Lakers 33 41 .446 23
x-clinched playoff berth
y-clinched division title
Remaining Games
SEATTLE (7) -- HOME (3): April 14, L.A. Clippers; 16, Houston;
22, San Antonio. AWAY (4): April 12, L.A. Clippers; 19, Phoenix; 20,
L.A. Lakers; 24, Portland.
HOUSTON (8) -- HOME (4): April 12, Minnesota; 14, Sacramento;
21, Dallas; 24, Denver. AWAY (4): April 16, Seattle; 17, Portland;
19, San Antonio; 22, Dallas.
SAN ANTONIO (7) -- HOME (4): April 11, Minnesota; 13, Denver;
16, Phoenix; 19, Houston. AWAY (3): April 14, Utah; 22, Seattle; 24,
L.A. Clippers.
PHOENIX (7) -- HOME (4): April 13, L.A. Lakers; 19, Seattle;
22, L.A. Clippers; 23, Sacramento. AWAY (3): April 12, Denver; 16,
San Antonio; 18, Dallas.
UTAH (7) -- HOME (3): April 12, Sacramento; 14, San Antonio;
21, Portland. AWAY (4): April 16, Golden State; 19, Sacramento; 22,
Denver; 24, L.A. Lakers.
PORTLAND (7) -- HOME (3): April 12, Dallas; 17, Houston; 24,
Seattle. AWAY (4): April 14, Golden State; 15, L.A. Lakers; 21, Utah;
22, Minnesota.
GOLDEN STATE (9) -- HOME (5): April 11, Dallas; 14, Portland;
16, Utah; 21, Sacramento; 23, L.A. Lakers. AWAY (4): L.A. Lakers; 18,
L.A. Clippers; 24, Sacramento.
DENVER (8) -- HOME (3): April 12, Phoenix; 19, L.A. Lakers;
22, Utah. AWAY (5): April 13, San Antonio; 15, Dallas; 17, Minnesota;
20, L.A. Clippers; 24, Houston.
L.A. LAKERS (8) -- HOME (4): April 12, Golden State; 15, Portland;
20, Seattle; 24, Utah. AWAY (4): April 13, Phoenix; 16, L.A. Clippers;
19, Denver, 23, Golden State.
|
| 10.1546 | GO DENVER!!!!!!! | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon Apr 11 1994 16:51 | 13 |
|
just to make TCM's day, as I watch the pregame festivities on saturday
and Costas was running down the scores from the night before, and after
he clarified the playoff picture,
"and here's two teams going nowhere except the lottery, The Celtics downed
the TWolves last night 112-108."
man did that hurt.......
I'm sure others beside Craze will rejoice as well......
mike
|
| 10.1547 | Yawn... | ROCK::MURPHY | Good News for Mets - Can't finish 7th! | Mon Apr 11 1994 17:16 | 8 |
| Well, the Nuggs might get back into the playoffs for the first time
since they axed Doug Moe. But will anyone notice??? Bet the Rocks
will outdraw the one home game the Nuggets get if they play on the same
night, without much trouble (not just because McNichols only holds
17K)
Murph
|
| 10.1548 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Long lost recipe | Mon Apr 11 1994 18:53 | 6 |
| Well, I for one would rather watch the Nuggets before the Rockies,
just because its less boring.
The Nuggets choked last night. 17 point lead and cough.
Tim
|
| 10.1549 | A Nuggets Sonics series could go 4 games. | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249 | Mon Apr 11 1994 19:47 | 11 |
| The Sonics havn't played very well against the Nuggets. The playoffs are a
different type of game. I would expect to see at least the first home game as a
victory for Les Nuggets Miserables. I am not expecting Dikembe or Makmuud to
take this first jump as a into post season play as a fluke, the nucleus is in
place the rotation could use some depth and they could give Robert Pack away
for a Vinnie Johnson type 6th man.
Bernie Bicker and his staff need some work as well as Dan Issel should borrow
some anger from Doug Moe to get these guys a killer instinct, at one point they
were 17 points up on Houston only to lose by 1.
Jeff
|
| 10.1550 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:09 | 3 |
| How badly have the Celtics fallen from grace in New England? I was out
at a local pool hall/sports bar. They had the C's up on the little
bitty TVs while the Pengoons were on the big screen.
|
| 10.1551 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:10 | 8 |
| Thanks MikeC
re: .1550
yup there you have that fabled NE loyalty to its teams. NOT!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1552 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:18 | 8 |
| |yup there you have that fabled NE loyalty to its teams. NOT!
|
|The Crazy Met
Yea, there are almost as many no-shows at the Boston Garden these days as there
have been at MSG for the past n-years.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1553 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:19 | 1 |
| but =Bob=, at least the no-shows in Boston Garden bought tickets.
|
| 10.1554 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:20 | 4 |
| 10.1555 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:23 | 7 |
| > Yea, there are almost as many no-shows at the Boston Garden these days as
> there have been at MSG for the past n-years.
sooo????
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1556 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:25 | 9 |
| |> Yea, there are almost as many no-shows at the Boston Garden these days as
|> there have been at MSG for the past n-years.
|
|sooo????
|
|The Crazy Met
So the Boston fans have been taking-front running lessons from the masters,
New Yorkers.
|
| 10.1557 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:28 | 5 |
| yabbut I kept hearing folks extoling how loyal the Boston fans are.
just another crock of sh*t.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1558 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:32 | 3 |
| I can just imagine that if I were in a New York Sports bar and the
Knicks were swooning they'd probably have Mork & Mindy re-runs on the
big screen.
|
| 10.1559 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:33 | 7 |
|
Po' Po' Met. Trying to taunt the New Englanders as he puffs
his chest out with pride over the Knicks 60+ games sellout
streak in the largest market in the country. Wheee! I guess
the fact that they're the one New York team that didn't have
to move to New Jersey to sellout on a regular basis has to be
cause for celebration.
|
| 10.1560 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:45 | 2 |
| What difference does it make who's watching on the tube when the games
are soldout?
|
| 10.1561 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Burn the Tiger road pajamas! | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:51 | 2 |
| Depends on if there's a 72 hour rule like the Pats...
|
| 10.1562 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:52 | 20 |
| Tommy, your continued ignorance of history is beginning to be quite
appaling and distressing.
Both the Jets and Giants had waiting lists for tickets when the
played at Shea and Yankee Stadium, respectively.
The rate at which you are getting your facts right is beginning to
rival Mike H's track record.
re: 60 game streak
nope, not getting all excited about that. if the Knicks start to
consitently not contend that will stop - Rangers for whatever reason have
always been a tough ticket in good time or bad times. The point has to do with
that fabled Boston loyalty to their teams which is not quite what it
has been made out to be in this conference.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1563 | don't take that from him | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 11 1994 20:53 | 4 |
| >The rate at which you are getting your facts right is beginning to
>rival Mike H's track record.
Wooo, Tommy, dem's fightin' words!
|
| 10.1564 | Turnout not as bad as some had predicted | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Tue Apr 12 1994 13:03 | 7 |
| There were surprisingly few empty seats Friday night at the Garden for
the Woofs, believe it or not. I can only remember one or two games
where there were a large number of empty seats. I would say the
turnstile count has been over 14,000 (cap. 14,890) for all but a couple
of games.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1565 | But it's 4 Torr and sucking more.... | CAMONE::WAY | Smells like dead teen spirit | Tue Apr 12 1994 13:28 | 8 |
| How Much Do the Celtics Suck?
They debut on the Chainsaw's "How Much Does It Suck" Scale at
4 Torr. STill have to preserve Maureen's all time record.
'Saw
|
| 10.1566 | what do you think of this wager | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 12 1994 14:44 | 12 |
| I made a bet with my neighbor last night on nba championships.
I told him he could take any four teams right now and I would take the
rest. He took sonics,houston,ny knicks and atlanta since they were
leading their respective divisions.
this started with $5 on nl playoffs,to $10 on world series and I'll now
win a (mythical) $20 if Orlando or someone comes along.
Why I like Orlando is for another note
billte
|
| 10.1567 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 14:47 | 6 |
| your best chance of winning is probably San Antonio.
Sonics look awesome.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1568 | odd | HBAHBA::HAAS | The karma ran over my dogma | Tue Apr 12 1994 14:48 | 7 |
| I woulda wanted odds.
Also, the Spurs or the Suns could come through for you.
IMO, it's looking like Atlanta-Seattle.
TTom
|
| 10.1569 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 12 1994 16:26 | 6 |
| The Spurs are the last top 4 seed I would bet - no point guard. I got
a hunch that 1 top 4 seed in each conference will go down in round 1.
The West is more suspect, but it could happen in the East as well.
Especially if NJ & NY hook up.
Mike
|
| 10.1570 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | TFO has been TFSO'd | Tue Apr 12 1994 16:56 | 6 |
| >Thanks MikeC
>re: .1550
>yup there you have that fabled NE loyalty to its teams. NOT!
So, one bar that Mike C goes to has the Celtics games on a small TV,
and suddenly NE fans aren't so loyal?
|
| 10.1571 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:07 | 6 |
| re: .1569
a #5 beating a #4 is not that big an upset.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1572 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | TFO has been TFSO'd | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:11 | 6 |
| > a #5 beating a #4 is not that big an upset.
It's still an underachievement, and I'm wondering where that Knicks and
the playoff atmosphere BS came from.
brews
|
| 10.1573 | always enjoy another's misery | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:14 | 8 |
|
not that it matters much but it was Mac who was at the bar not me.....
the best team left to root for unless the Bugs miraclously get in, imo
is the Bulls. I'm sure MJ would publicly congratulate them but be crushed
inside.
mike
|
| 10.1574 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:19 | 4 |
| I think MikeH made the "playoff atmosphere" statement.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1575 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Burn the Tiger road pajamas! | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:32 | 2 |
| Was Charlotte over Boston last year an upset?
|
| 10.1576 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:38 | 3 |
| >I think MikeH made the "playoff atmosphere" statement.
Sorry Craze, but you're grasping.
|
| 10.1577 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:41 | 7 |
| apologies to MikeH, it was option::lazarus in 108.393 that made
that assertion.
Either way it was not moi.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1578 | I forgive you ;-) | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:45 | 1 |
| no problem.
|
| 10.1580 | Question begging to be asked | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 12 1994 17:59 | 6 |
| Is there any legal reason (re NBA rules) keeping Michael or Magic from
suiting up?
Latter of course would need to make the playoffs first.
re. Trivia question: Tri Cities?
|
| 10.1581 | the kenny Smith Syndrome | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue Apr 12 1994 18:00 | 8 |
|
well I know you all miss Chris, so let me just say Walt, that YES it was
but it never would have happened if Reggie didn't go down. You can't win
without your best player.....
mike
|
| 10.1582 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 18:03 | 11 |
| Once a player retires and the league is officially notified the only
way that that player can come back during the season is if every team in
the league agrees. You know that won't happen. Jordan can rejoin
the Bulls for next season without any problems.
When Magic first "retired" he actually was put on IR os something like
that so that the Lakers would not need to go through the rest of the
league to activate him later that year; Lakers never did activate him.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1583 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Apr 12 1994 18:13 | 6 |
| 10.1584 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Burn the Tiger road pajamas! | Tue Apr 12 1994 18:14 | 3 |
| I've been gone on vacation... Doc called me last night? Has ACC been
in here since the BC game?
|
| 10.1585 | | CAMONE::WAY | Smells like dead teen spirit | Tue Apr 12 1994 18:17 | 8 |
| > I've been gone on vacation... Doc called me last night? Has ACC been
> in here since the BC game?
He put one note in like the day after, and then disappeared.
|
| 10.1586 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 18:30 | 5 |
| nothing is different about Jordan. billte asked what was preventing
the Bulls from activating Jordan for the playoffs.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1587 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Apr 12 1994 19:41 | 8 |
| 10.1588 | | CAMONE::WAY | Smells like dead teen spirit | Tue Apr 12 1994 19:44 | 15 |
| I think what was being said, and correct me if I'm wrong, was this:
For a player to come back from retirement in mid-season
or for the playoffs etc etc, it takes approval of all
the teams.
If a player wants to come back at the start of the season
for training camp or whatever, that's okay.
Whether it's Jordan or Magic, or Bob Cousy.....
hth,
'saw
|
| 10.1589 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue Apr 12 1994 19:52 | 9 |
|
reading comprehension Men....
TCM stated that the Lakers put Magic on IR not the retirement list hence
the difference. If there's a way to scheme you know the Lakers will use
it. The only joy in that is that they learnt everything they know from
RED!!!!
mike
|
| 10.1590 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue Apr 12 1994 19:54 | 2 |
| I got that part, Mike. It's the rest of the reply that has me
confused.
|
| 10.1591 | help for addled minds | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 20:03 | 14 |
| Lets split this into 2 paragraphs.
> Once a player retires and the league is officially notified the only
> way that that player can come back during the season is if every team in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the league agrees. You know that won't happen
> Jordan can rejoin the Bulls for next season without any problems.
since it is no longer the same season he retired in.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1592 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue Apr 12 1994 20:05 | 13 |
|
the original question Bill asked was could they activate MJ or Magic for
the playoffs....
so without the rest of the league's permission the answer is NO.
if he wants to play next year no problem, no need for the rest of the
league to approve.....
just like you can't bring ringers to the playoffs in softball or basketball
or any other sport I've played.
mike
|
| 10.1593 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 20:08 | 4 |
| MikeC - Never mind Mac. His mind is already overseas.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1594 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Apr 12 1994 20:21 | 10 |
| My understanding is that a retired player (for example, Jordan) would
need the approval from the rest of the league to come back in the same
season/playoffs as when he retired. However, once a player has been out
of the league for more than a season (for example, Magic), no league
approal would be required. Therefore, the Bulls would need league
approval if Michael decided he wanted to play in this year's playoffs,
but the Lakers would not need league approval if (assuming they made
the playoffs this year) Magic decided he wanted to suit up.
Ken
|
| 10.1595 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | TFO has been TFSO'd | Tue Apr 12 1994 21:10 | 8 |
| > Either way it was not moi.
I never said it was you who made the "playoff atmosphere" comment (just
another Knick fan). You were the one dissing the fans of the Celtics
who have a sell out streak 10 times (maybe 20?) longer than the current
Knick streak that you seem so proud of.
brews
|
| 10.1597 | Hockey not like any sport | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 12 1994 21:15 | 5 |
| Re. "Softball or any other sport" and ringers.
Except Hockey where apparently they can get anybody anytime viz mr.
Czerkowski of the Bruins
|
| 10.1596 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 21:15 | 13 |
| Brewsman,
Postulate 1:
Celtics and everything related to them (well we'll leave aside any
charitable type work :-) are always worth dissing.
Accept that and everything makes sense.
The Crazy met
|
| 10.1598 | when is the roster deadline? similar to baseball on Aug. 31? | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue Apr 12 1994 21:16 | 6 |
| > Except Hockey
I didn't think they could get new players after the trading deadline.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1599 | | GENRAL::WADE | So, what's on your alleged mind? | Tue Apr 12 1994 21:22 | 4 |
|
Ringers? In pro sports? Ha! They're all ringers fer crissakes!
Claybone
|
| 10.1600 | gotta beat Heiser! ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Wed Apr 13 1994 12:32 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1601 | Clippers FEDEX-ed this one in!!!!! | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Fri Apr 15 1994 14:52 | 28 |
|
The Sonics set an NBA record lasted night. 10 players from the same
team scored in double-figures for the first time. The previous record
was hel by 9 76'ers in a 1977 game vs Washington.
Sonics beat the Clippers 150-101. 150 points is the higest totol in
the NBA this year.
At one point early in the 2nd period, the Sonics lead 51-15!!!!!!!
Clippers coach Bob Weiss called two timeouts in the first 4 minutes
of the game. Then picked up two technicals and was ejected with 6:31
left in the 1st quarter!!!
Sonics had twenty steals.
Schrempf 21 points
Askew 18
Kemp 17
Gill 16
Chris King 15
Payton 14
Cage 12
McMillan 12
Scheffler 11
Ervin Johnson 10
|
| 10.1602 | things changing out West too | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 18 1994 18:30 | 22 |
| EASTERN CONFERENCE
W L Pct. GB
x-Atlanta 55 23 .705 -
y-New York 54 24 .692 1
x-Chicago 54 25 .684 1 1/2
x-Orlando 47 31 .603 8
x-Cleveland 45 34 .570 10 1/2
x-Indiana 43 35 .551 12
x-New Jersey 43 36 .544 12 1/2
Miami 40 39 .506 15 1/2
Charlotte 38 40 .487 17
WESTERN CONFERENCE
W L Pct. GB
y-Seattle 60 18 .769 -
x-Houston 57 21 .731 3
x-San Antonio 53 26 .671 7 1/2
x-Phoenix 52 26 .667 8
x-Utah 49 29 .628 11
x-Golden State 47 31 .603 13
x-Portland 46 33 .582 14 1/2
x-Denver 39 39 .500 21
|
| 10.1603 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 18 1994 18:50 | 19 |
| Magic first announced he won't return on Barkley's weekly TV show.
Kudos to the Suns for knocking him out ;-)
What's interesting is Magic's view on today's players. He said nobody
in today's NBA has that desire to win like Charles, Bird, Jordan, and
himself. "They're all looking for that paycheck, beeper, and cellular
phone," said Magic. He added, "Players today don't respect the
veterans and their coaches. They talk back to the coaches and don't
appreciate what veterans have done."
Both of them also agreed that these big rookie contracts are detrimental to
the game. "They get $5M without playing a game and have no incentive
to improve their skills. They won't work in the summer or fall."
Finally, in a stinging remark pointed to Chris Webber, they said, "Don
Nelson has always been a player's coach. Anyone that can't play for him
has problems."
Mike
|
| 10.1604 | this guy is whacked! | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 17:17 | 2 |
| Dennis Rodman cans a trey at the end of last night's game, then takes
off his shoes and gives them to a courtside fan.
|
| 10.1605 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 17:26 | 11 |
|
> Dennis Rodman cans a trey at the end of last night's game, then takes
> off his shoes and gives them to a courtside fan.
He don't make the All_Childs team for nothing.....
other members: Zo, Akeem, Willis, Mookie, Muggsy, Mitch Richmond, John Starks
Oakley, Horace, Coleman and Nick Anderson..........
mike
|
| 10.1606 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 17:57 | 4 |
| Why Coleman and Richmond? Coleman is a legend in his own mind and a
typical Sorryexcuse(tm) underachiever. Mitch's biggest problem is that
he's been sentenced to obscurity in Sacramento, not to mention he can't
play a lick of D. In fact, he recently changed his name to Richmon_
|
| 10.1607 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:29 | 5 |
|
cause it's my team. they don't have to be the best to be on my team, I just
have to like them.
mike
|
| 10.1608 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:32 | 4 |
| and MikeC loves people who whine: see Bird, McHale.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1609 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:37 | 1 |
| TCH, you know Magic was the leader of the All-Whine Festival team.
|
| 10.1610 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:42 | 4 |
| ok, so add Magic and Laimbeer in there as well. No skin off my back.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1611 | a trend | HBAHBA::HAAS | Saturn sheets | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:44 | 3 |
| So far, them whiners all seem to have rings...
TTom
|
| 10.1612 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:45 | 9 |
|
TCM, trace back through the history of ::Sports and you'll find that I
wasn't Bird's biggest supporter. Although given his true greatness it
was tough to knock him but sometimes I found a way. McHale kinda looks
like my brother so I didn't pick on him........
;^)
mike
|
| 10.1613 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:46 | 6 |
| > So far, them whiners all seem to have rings...
yabbut, that's only because the refs let them get away with so much :-) :-) :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1614 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:47 | 1 |
| Mike, were you and your brother separated at birth?
|
| 10.1615 | we're 1 1/2 years apart...dad was busy | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:48 | 7 |
|
no but we do look alot a like except I have more hair covering my solar
panel........
;^)
mike
|
| 10.1616 | | CAMONE::WAY | Snake and Nape | Wed Apr 20 1994 18:49 | 2 |
| Mikey liked Ol' Larry though, because he met him one time and bought him
a pitcher of beer. Ol' Larry liked Mike too.....
|
| 10.1617 | I remember that now | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:00 | 1 |
| Correct, 'Saw.
|
| 10.1618 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:21 | 4 |
| Hey, I like Saw too but that doesn't mean I think he's the world's greatest
rugby player above criticism.........
;^)
|
| 10.1619 | NBA Awards | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:23 | 25 |
| It's that time of year again. Here are my objective opinions of who
deserves the awards.
MVP - Hakeem Olajuwon. If they win their 3 remaining games, it will be
60 wins for the Rockets. You could've won it last year, but Charles
Barkley was slightly better. He showed this year that last season was
no fluke. The Suns record without Sir Charles (when injured) could make
a case for him repeating, but that is also why he won't win it.
COY - Phil Jackson. No question. You can't convince me that Pippen is
the reason the Bulls are matching last year's pace *with* Jordan.
Lenny Wilkens deserves recognition, but probably won't get it.
6th Man - Dell Curry. He helped keep the Hornets in contention while
everyone else was dropping like flies. Nate McMillan will get some
votes too.
RoY - Chris Webber. It's because of him that they are the #6 seed
despite missing Hardaway & Marcilonis(sp?) for the year, and Mullin for
part of the year. Only competition is Penny Hardaway.
Defensive Player - Hakeem Olajuwon. No doubt about it.
Most Improved - Don MacLean. He finally lived up to his billing after
breaking all of Jabbar's scoring records at UCLA.
|
| 10.1620 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:35 | 14 |
|
COY shoud be Wilkins. The man changed teams and still got results. Why
should Jackson be rewarded for the rest of the BUlls proving that basket-
ball is still a team game. You shouldn't take everything Vescey says to
heart. Karl deserves more votes than Jackson but Phil's the media boy
so you're probably right.
I think Kenny Anderson has improved more than Maclean but I have trouble
with both of them as they're both very one dimensional players. I don't
like the guy but I'd vote for Shaq....
I agree with the rest of em' though...
mike
|
| 10.1621 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:46 | 3 |
| I guess I already considered Shaq beyond improvement. As for Wilkins,
I've said before in here that he was the definitely the difference in
Cleveland and Atlanta. He's making Fratello look BAD.
|
| 10.1622 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:53 | 10 |
|
nobody is beyond improvement. All his numbers have increased at both ends
of the court. He's actually developed an ugly hook. A real shot facing the
basket from 10 to 12 feet and a 20% increase in his foul shooting and he
could win it next year also. Problem is he won't work on nothing this
summer except movies and rapping.......
that's why Mourning will always be better.........
mike
|
| 10.1623 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 20 1994 19:55 | 2 |
| just like Russell vs. Chambermaid. One works and gets the rings, the
other plays and gets the women.
|
| 10.1624 | more opinions | HBAHBA::HAAS | Saturn sheets | Wed Apr 20 1994 20:13 | 20 |
| COY - don't ferget Nellie who did a lot of smoke and mirrors to keep
Golden State in the playoffs.
6th Man - it will be ironic if'n Dell wins cause he was better lasted
year.
ROY - I like Penny over Webber. He's moved Scott Skiles outta the lineup
and onto the bench looking like trade bait.
MVP - I'm a Shaq man mostly cause he's hardly being mentioned. His
numbers are monstrous, like his game. Funny how most of the
other candidates are centers. I thought that centers were
a dying species in the NBA.
Most Improved - Gotsta go with my main main Muggsy, who had no part
in "everyone else was dropping like flies".
Defense - Hakeem is fine
TTom
|
| 10.1625 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Wed Apr 20 1994 21:09 | 7 |
| On defense, Dikembe Mutombo is the best. He's taking the art of
shot blocking to a new level and leads the league by a wide margin.
Every team alters their game when they play against the big guy.
He won't win it though because he doesn't score much, he's not one of
the NBA's glamor boys and he plays for an average team. Maybe next year.
Keith
|
| 10.1626 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Wed Apr 20 1994 23:36 | 15 |
| Off the top of my haid...
COY - Wilkins edges Karl and Jackson.
6th Man - Dell, who else is there?
ROY - I like Penny too. And I'm a Maize and Blue fan.
MVP - Shaq was best player, but I go with Robinson.
Most Improved - McLean, but I'd have to look at Gerald Wilkins' and Latrell
Sprewell's stats too.
Defense - Hakeem
|
| 10.1627 | Another opinion | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Thu Apr 21 1994 12:36 | 13 |
| COY - Wilkins, but Karl, Jackson, Nelson, and Lucas also deserve votes
6th man - Nate McMillan
ROY - Chris Webber, and it's not even close
MVP - Hakeem edges David
Most Improved - Sprewell
Defense - Hakeem edges Dikembe
NAZZ
|
| 10.1628 | | USCTR1::KING | Cemeteries = Parks with nice stones... | Thu Apr 21 1994 12:47 | 11 |
| COY Wilkins
ROY Webber
MVP Robinson
Comeback Mullin
6th Curry
REK
|
| 10.1629 | current standings | HBAHBA::HAAS | Saturn sheets | Thu Apr 21 1994 14:03 | 36 |
| W L Pct. GB
y-New York 54 25 .684 -
x-Orlando 49 31 .613 5 1/2
x-New Jersey 44 36 .550 10 1/2
Miami 41 39 .513 13 1/2
Boston 31 48 .392 23
Philadelphia 24 55 .304 30
Washington 23 57 .288 31 1/2
Central Division
x-Atlanta 56 24 .700 -
x-Chicago 55 25 .688 1
x-Indiana 45 35 .563 11
x-Cleveland 45 35 .563 11
Charlotte 39 40 .494 16 1/2
Detroit 20 60 .250 36
Milwaukee 20 60 .250 36
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Midwest Division
W L Pct. GB
y-Houston 57 22 .722 -
x-San Antonio 54 26 .675 3 1/2
x-Utah 50 29 .633 7
x-Denver 41 39 .513 16 1/2
Minnesota 20 60 .250 37 1/2
Dallas 11 68 .139 46
Pacific Division
z-Seattle 61 19 .763 -
x-Phoenix 54 26 .675 7
x-Golden State 48 31 .608 12 1/2
x-Portland 46 33 .582 14 1/2
L.A. Lakers 33 47 .413 28
Sacramento 27 52 .342 33 1/2
L.A. Clippers 27 53 .338 34
z-clinched best conference record
x-clinched playoff berth
y-clinched division title
|
| 10.1630 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Apr 22 1994 14:27 | 10 |
| Atlanta 56-25 Orlando
NY Knicks 55-25 Bucks,Bulls (both away)
Bulls 55-25 Celtics,Knicks (both at home)
What is the tie-breaker situation between these teams. Also, how would
a three way tie break work - in the unlikely event that it happens.
Hawks could still end up as a #3 seed, I think. NY-Chicago game, will
it affect the tie-break?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1631 | straight up | HBAHBA::HAAS | Saturn sheets | Fri Apr 22 1994 14:30 | 6 |
| I don't know about da Bulls vs the Knicks but
Chicago > Atlanta
Atlanta > NY
TTom
|
| 10.1632 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Apr 22 1994 14:37 | 5 |
| what about a 3 way tie?? would they first tie-break for the division
title between Bulls-Hawks and then tie break with the Knicks?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1633 | conference records | HBAHBA::HAAS | Saturn sheets | Fri Apr 22 1994 14:50 | 9 |
| In terms of conference records, right now it's
Atlanta 35-5
Chicago 31-8
Knikcs 32-9
We still need some head to head info.
TTom
|
| 10.1634 | | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Twins ERA=Enormous Runs Allowed | Fri Apr 22 1994 15:03 | 4 |
| If doubles win their last two games, they win the East.
Spud
|
| 10.1635 | Eastern Conference scenario | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Fri Apr 22 1994 17:41 | 49 |
| Here is the remaining schedule for the top three teams in the East:
Atlanta 56-25 Sat. vs Orlando
New York 55-25 Fri. at Milwaukee; Sun. at Chicago
Chicago 55-25 Fri. vs Boston; Sun. vs New York
Let's assume New York and Chicago win tonight. That leaves all three
teams with 56-25 records, but there can't be a three-way tie, since
NY and Chi. play each other Sunday. Here are the possible scenarios:
1) Atlanta wins, New York wins - Final records: Atlanta 57-25, New
York 57-25, Chicago 56-26. Atlanta is the #1 seed, due to a better
Division and Conference record than New York, who is #2 and Chicago #3.
2) Atlanta wins, Chicago wins - Final records: Atlanta 57-25, Chicago
57-25, New York 56-26. Chicago is the #1 seed, since they won the season
series vs Atlanta 3-2. Atlanta is the #2 seed, and New York is #3.
3) Atlanta loses, New York wins - Final records: New York 57-25,
Atlanta 56-26, Chicago 56-26. New York is the #1 seed, and Chicago is #2
because of their 3 wins in five games over Atlanta, who is #3.
4) Atlanta loses, Chicago wins - Final records: Atlanta 56-26, Chicago
57-25, New York 56-26. Chicago is the #1 seed, Atlanta has the better
Division and Conference record and earns the #2 seed, and New York is #3.
Orlando is locked into #4, and Miami is locked into #8. Here is how I
think the breakdown for the #5, #6, and #7 seeds should go:
Indiana 45-35 Fri. vs Philly; Sat. vs Miami
Cleveland 45-35 Fri. vs Washington; Sat. vs Boston
New Jersey 44-36 Sat. vs Milwaukee; Sun. at Orlando
Both Indiana and Cleveland should win their remaining two home games, which
would lock New Jersey into 7th place. Indiana wins the tiebreaker over
Cleveland, since they won the season series 3 games to 2. So that puts
Indiana into the #5 spot and Cleveland at #6.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1636 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Apr 22 1994 18:52 | 9 |
| re: .1635
one thing Knicks have to have at least the #2 seed because they won the
Division title. So they can be either #1 or #2. That only applies
for the initial pairings. If NY then met the #3 seed at some point, the
#3 seed could still have home floor advantage.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1637 | Playoff Matchups | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon Apr 25 1994 14:33 | 35 |
| 1 Atlanta |
----------------|----------------
8 Miami |
4 Orlando |
----------------|----------------
5 Indiana |
2 New York |
----------------|----------------
7 New Jersey |
3 Chicago |
----------------|----------------
6 Cleveland |
1 Seattle |
----------------|----------------
8 Denver |
4 San Antonio |
----------------|----------------
5 Utah |
2 Houston |
----------------|----------------
7 Portland |
3 Phoenix |
----------------|----------------
6 Golden State |
|
| 10.1638 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon Apr 25 1994 16:22 | 11 |
|
ok let's have a contest on the NBA playoffs. send mail with you picks
to cntrol::Childs. have the picks in before the first games which start
on thursday. 2 points for first rounds winners 4 for conference semis
winners 8 points for conference final winners and 10 points for getting
the champs right.......I'll glady give one of MikeL stanky ND Tshirts
to the winner........
;^)
mike
|
| 10.1639 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 25 1994 16:34 | 7 |
| I'll enter only if you promise that if I win you send the ND t-shirt
to Tommy.
deal??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1640 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon Apr 25 1994 16:52 | 47 |
|
here's mine so no excuse me of finaglin' the bagel for the T...you can
extract this an edit it or send it to me in any form you like as long
as I can understand it.......
mike
Hawks
--------
|Hawks
Heat |-------
------- | Hawks
Magic |---------
-------- | |
|Pacers| |
Pacers |------- |
------- | Bulls
Knicks |-------------
-------- | |
| Nets | |
Neta |------- | |
------- | | |
Bulls | Bulls | |
-------- |--------- |
|Bulls | |
Cavs |------- |
------- | Sonics
Sonics ----------------
-------- |
|Sonics |
Nuggets|------- |
------- | Sonics |
Spurs |--------- |
-------- | | |
| Jazz | | |
Jazz |------- | |
------- | Sonics |
Rockets |-------------
-------- |
|Rockets |
Blazers|------- |
------- | |
Suns |Rockets |
-------- |---------
| Suns |
Warriors|------
-------
|
| 10.1641 | what did you expect ?? | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Apr 25 1994 17:56 | 40 |
| Hawks
--------
|Hawks
Heat |-------
------- | Hawks
Magic |---------
-------- | |
|Pacers| |
Pacers |------- |
------- | Knicks
Knicks |-------------
-------- | |
| Knicks | |
Neta |------- | |
------- | | |
Bulls | Knicks | |
-------- |--------- |
|Bulls | |
Cavs |------- |
------- | Knicks
Sonics ----------------
-------- |
|Sonics |
Nuggets|------- |
------- | Sonics |
Spurs |--------- |
-------- | | |
| Spurs| | |
Jazz |------- | |
------- | Sonics |
Rockets |-------------
-------- |
|Rockets |
Blazers|------- |
------- | |
Suns |Rockets |
-------- |---------
| War |
Warriors|------
--------
|
| 10.1642 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon Apr 25 1994 18:02 | 7 |
|
FWIW the winner will not get one of MikeL's treasured T's but a T of
their choice as long as it's an NBA team. If I win (highly unlikely)
you guys can pitch in and fly me to LA to watch the Celtics stomp the
Lakers next year.......
;^)
|
| 10.1643 | A lot like yours, Mike - great minds, etc. | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Mon Apr 25 1994 18:53 | 44 |
|
Hawks
--------
|Hawks
Heat |-------
------- | Hawks
Magic |---------
-------- | |
|Pacers| |
Pacers |------- |
------- | Bulls
Knicks |-------------
-------- | |
| Nets | |
Nets |------- | |
------- | | |
Bulls | Bulls | |
-------- |--------- |
|Bulls | |
Cavs |------- |
------- | Sonics
Sonics ----------------
-------- |
|Sonics |
Nuggets|------- |
------- | Sonics |
Spurs |--------- |
-------- | | |
| Jazz | | |
Jazz |------- | |
------- | Sonics |
Rockets |-------------
-------- |
|Rockets |
Blazers|------- |
------- | |
Suns | GS |
-------- |---------
| GS |
Warriors|------
-------
NAZZ
|
| 10.1644 | Playoff capsules | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 25 1994 19:07 | 129 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP/BILL BARNARD, AP Basketball Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Playoff Pairings
The Chicago Bulls, NBA champions the last three years, begin the
postseason as the third seed in the Eastern Conference and will
play host to the Cleveland Cavaliers in the first round.
Phoenix, an NBA finalist a year ago, finished third in the
Western Conference and will face Golden State, the most improved
team in the NBA this season.
Here's a capsule look at the best-of-5 first-round matchups,
with the teams' head-to-head record in the regular season, key
players, outlook and prediction:
EASTERN CONFERENCE
No. 1 Atlanta vs. No. 8 Miami
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Atlanta 3-1.
KEY PLAYERS: Miami: center Rony Seikaly, forward Glen Rice,
guard Steve Smith, reserve John Salley. Atlanta: forwards Kevin
Willis and Danny Manning, guard Mookie Blaylock, reserve Craig
Ehlo.
OUTLOOK: The Heat looked very strong after the All-Star break,
winning five straight road games at one stretch, but fell apart
late in the season, nearly losing the last playoff berth when
Seikaly sprained an ankle. He got back in time to salvage Miami's
second postseason appearance, but the Hawks are playing too well to
become the first top seed to lost to an eighth seed.
PREDICTION: Hawks in 4.
No. 2 New York vs. No. 7 New Jersey
HEAD-TO-HEAD: New Jersey 4-1.
KEY PLAYERS: New Jersey: forward Derrick Coleman, guard Kenny
Anderson, center Benoit Benjamin, reserve Armon Gilliam. New York:
center Patrick Ewing, forward Charles Oakley, guard Derek Harper,
reserve Charles Smith.
OUTLOOK: This is the matchup fans in the New York area were
looking forward to. The Nets' 4-1 advantage in the regular season
is intriguing, but the perceived matchup advantages for New Jersey
should disappear when the Knicks are able to concentrate on them
exclusively. Benjamin has played well lately, scoring 20 or more
points in three recent games. If he could keep it up, the upset
possibility is there.
PREDICTION: Knicks in 4.
No. 3 Chicago vs. No 6. Cleveland
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Cleveland 3-1.
KEY PLAYERS: Cleveland: guard Mark Price, center John Williams,
forward Bobby Phills, reserve Tyrone Hill. Chicago: forward Scottie
Pippen, guard B.J. Armstrong, center Luc Longley, reserve Toni
Kukoc.
OUTLOOK: The Cavaliers have been eliminated by the Bulls in four
of the six previous years, with Michael Jordan hitting
series-ending shots twice. Jordan is gone, but so are Brad
Daugherty and Larry Nance. Cleveland did remarkably well to win 47
games, but Chicago did remarkably well to win 55. The Bulls look
that much better right now.
PREDICTION: Chicago in 4.
No. 4 Orlando vs. No. 5 Indiana
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Series tied 2-2.
KEY PLAYERS: Indiana: guard Reggie Miller, center Rik Smits,
forward Dale Davis, reserve Antonio Davis. Orlando: center
Shaquille O'Neal, guard Nick Anderson, guard Anfernee Hardaway,
reserve Scott Skiles.
OUTLOOK: The Pacers are playing better than any Indiana NBA
team, finishing off the season with a club-record eight straight
victories. Many observers will take the position that the Pacers
are soft until proven otherwise, regardless of how many times Smits
scores 40 points in a game. The two Davises and Derrick McKey are
doing a lot to reverse that perception. The Magic are virtually
devoid of playoff experience, but it will take a lot to defeat Shaq
and Co. Indiana seems capable of doing the ``hard'' work.
PREDICTION: Indiana in 4.
WESTERN CONFERENCE
No. 1 Seattle vs. No. 8 Denver
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Series tied 2-2.
KEY PLAYERS: Denver: center Dikembe Mutombo, guard Mahmoud
Abdul-Rauf, forward LaPhonso Ellis and reserve Robert Pack.
Seattle: forward Shawn Kemp, guard Gary Payton, forward Detlef
Schrempf, reserve Ricky Pierce.
OUTLOOK: Seattle is loaded, with nine tough players at coach
George Karl's call. Ricky Pierce has looked good in limited action
since he returned from an injury, giving the defensive-minded
Sonics an extra offensive weapon they might not have needed. Steals
champion Nate McMillan is Pierce's defensive twin off the bench.
The Nuggets have made a remarkable turnaround from three years ago,
but they have little chance against Seattle.
PREDICTION: Seattle in 3.
No. 2 Houston vs. No. 7 Portland
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Houston 4-0.
KEY PLAYERS: Portland: guards Clyde Drexler and Rod Strickland,
center Clifford Robinson, reserve Chris Dudley. Houston: center
Hakeem Olajuwon, guards Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell, reserve Sam
Cassell.
OUTLOOK: The Rockets' depth was comparable to Seattle's in the
first half of the season before injuries to Maxwell, Mario Elie,
Matt Bullard and Carl Herrera limited the options of coach Rudy
Tomjanovich. But Olajuwon still should be too much for the Trail
Blazers, although an upset is possible if Chris Dudley, recently
returned from a season-long ankle injury, can help on defense.
PREDICTION: Houston in 5.
No. 3 Phoenix vs. No. 6 Golden State
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Phoenix 3-2.
KEY PLAYERS: Golden State: forward Chris Webber, guard Latrell
Sprewell, forward Chris Mullin, center Chris Gatling. Phoenix:
forward Charles Barkley, guards Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle,
reserve A.C. Green.
OUTLOOK: The Suns are vulnerable to teams with dominating big
men, so at first glance they caught a break there. But it's a
double-edged sword as Golden State is similarly vulnerable. In what
could be a shootout, Phoenix has homecourt advantage, more weapons
in reserve and playoff experience to put them over the top.
PREDICTION: Phoenix in 5.
No. 4 San Antonio vs. No. 5 Utah
HEAD-TO-HEAD: Utah 5-0.
KEY PLAYERS: Utah: forward Karl Malone, guards John Stockton and
Jeff Hornacek, reserve Tom Chambers. San Antonio: center David
Robinson, forwards Dale Ellis and Dennis Rodman, reserve J.R. Reid.
OUTLOOK: The Jazz, despite being the lower seed, have that big
sweep to give them confidence. But the playoffs are a new season,
and the 5-0 sweep will mean nothing if Utah can't contain Robinson
and Ellis starts hitting from outside again after a late-season
injury and slump. The Jazz ended the season with a 10-game winning
streak followed by a 2-8 slump followed by a 9-2 finish. So the
series will ride on whether good Utah or bad Utah shows up.
PREDICTION: Utah in 4.
|
| 10.1645 | might as well post in 50.* now | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 25 1994 19:08 | 3 |
| > -< A lot like yours, Mike - great minds, etc. >-
yeah right, between the 2 of you, you're a real load.
|
| 10.1646 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon Apr 25 1994 19:41 | 4 |
|
until you make some predictions there yourself Mike, you got no room to talk...
mike
|
| 10.1647 | don't think I entered one last year | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 25 1994 19:52 | 1 |
| I'm gonna pull a TCM and hedge on this one ;-)
|
| 10.1648 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon Apr 25 1994 20:03 | 4 |
|
Craze is in. Can't tell you who he picked but he's in........
mike
|
| 10.1649 | ObjectiveSportsAnalyst as always | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 25 1994 20:26 | 38 |
|
1 Atlanta |
----------------|Atlanta
8 Miami |
Atlanta
4 Orlando |
----------------|Orlando
5 Indiana |
New York
2 New York |
----------------|New York
7 New Jersey |
New York
3 Chicago |
----------------|Cleveland
6 Cleveland |
New York
1 Seattle |
----------------|Seattle
8 Denver |
San Antonio
4 San Antonio |
----------------|San Antonio
5 Utah |
San Antonio
2 Houston |
----------------|Houston
7 Portland |
Houston
3 Phoenix |
----------------|Golden State
6 Golden State |
|
| 10.1650 | another dumb Met p_n coming TCM's way | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 25 1994 20:33 | 2 |
| How many times do I have to tell you the Spurs have no point guard?!
And don't you realize that Utah is 5-0 against the Spurs this year?!
|
| 10.1651 | contest .eqs. no_crow | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon Apr 25 1994 20:39 | 7 |
| As I understand it, the prevailing Supreme Court decisions indicate that
one need not head to CROW for what they pick in these here contests.
That makes Crazy safe about that Knicks pick although some may question
his sanity.
TTom
|
| 10.1652 | what sanity?? | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 25 1994 20:51 | 5 |
| uh, sorry MikeH no p_name riding on the NBA playoffs.
Only potential p_name in the NHL playoffs is if Pens/Rangers meet.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1653 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 25 1994 21:10 | 11 |
| I'm shocked and appalled :-)
When I state the reasons why I believe that the Rangers will have
difficulty winning the Stanley Cup this year y'all accuse me of
sandbagging. Then when I bravely go against the trend and have
the Knicks winning the NBA championship I'm accused of insanity.
Make up your minds folks! :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1654 | the Knick pick is fine | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon Apr 25 1994 22:46 | 2 |
| No, your pick of the Spurs from the West is INSANE! They didn't win a
season series against Utah (5-0), Phoenix (3-1), or Seattle (3-1).
|
| 10.1655 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Mon Apr 25 1994 23:09 | 4 |
| yabbut if you noticed I don't expect Phonix to get past Golden State.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1656 | Some things are self-evident | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Tue Apr 26 1994 14:27 | 5 |
| The general consensus is of course that you are insane. This is based
on how you sign your name after every note you write.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1657 | Once a met fan always a nut | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 26 1994 14:33 | 6 |
| No tcm probably grew up rooting for Stengel's mets for which insanity
was required and encouraged. Then they won and tried to think they
weren't crazy anymore.
Then the 90s crew arrived and to survive the mets fans donned their
insanity mantels again.
|
| 10.1658 | Talk about juxtaposition of the week | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 26 1994 14:36 | 3 |
| >> <<<...NAZZARO "UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs!" >>>
>> ..." you are insane. "
|
| 10.1659 | I'll be dancing in the streets of Seattle! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Tue Apr 26 1994 15:09 | 3 |
| You'll be owing me a big-time apology 11 months from now!!!
NAZZ
|
| 10.1660 | I'll be dancing somewhere myself on that occasion | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 26 1994 15:12 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1661 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 26 1994 15:54 | 3 |
| > yabbut if you noticed I don't expect Phonix to get past Golden State.
At least those teams have a point guard.
|
| 10.1662 | actually the 2nd breaker will be the mass lottery | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue Apr 26 1994 16:26 | 10 |
|
one thing I forgot, although it probably won't be needed is a tiebreaker.
Instead of trying to predict the score of the last game, I think I'll
make you have to think. There is a possibility of 89 total playoff
games (8*5=40, 7*4=28, 7*2=14, 1*7=7 40+28+14+7=89) so tell me how
many total playoff games will be played this year for your tiebreaker.
If we need a second tiebreaker, I'll use the ACCHris method and whomever
writes the most glowing tribute to the Mighty Celtics will be the winner.
mike
|
| 10.1663 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue Apr 26 1994 16:28 | 6 |
|
for the record I'll go with 71 seeing I graduated that year. Please mail
them along with your picks if you haven't entered already. If you have
please send me a tiebreaker......
mike
|
| 10.1664 | NBA looks at free throws | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue Apr 26 1994 17:20 | 56 |
| Article: 12946
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.sports.features
Subject: NBA Questioning Foul Shot Flap
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 16:20:08 PDT
HOUSTON (AP) -- Calvin Murphy retired from the NBA in 1983. So
why was he holding the ball just before Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
attempted a foul shot that could have broken Murphy's single-season
record for free throw percentage?
The NBA would like to know.
Abdul-Rauf shot his only two free throws Sunday in the third
quarter of Denver's regular-season finale against Houston. He made
the first but missed the second, preventing the Nuggets' guard from
breaking Murphy's .958 mark in 1980-81.
During a timeout before the shots, Murphy stood up from his
courtside seat, got the ball from a referee, rubbed it, then handed
it back to the ref.
As Abdul-Rauf walked to the line, Murphy stared at him and
started yelling at him. Abdul-Rauf then swished his first shot, but
his second one bounced off the front of the rim. Murphy, who played
for the Rockets and is now one of their broadcasters, leaped from
his seat and clapped.
``It seemed like he just wanted the record so bad,'' Abdul-Rauf
said. ``I wanted him to have it. I told him I liked him and he told
me, ``You're my kind of guy.'''
While Abdul-Rauf joked about the situation, the NBA was planning
to ask some questions about it. NBA spokesman Jan Hubbard said the
league is going to ask the referees who worked the game to explain
how Murphy got his hands on the ball just before Abdul-Rauf shot.
The referees and Murphy weren't unavailable for comment Monday.
But at halftime of Sunday's game, Murphy said he was getting tense
because Abdul-Rauf had yet to shoot a free throw.
``Somebody's got to go out there and tackle him,'' said Murphy,
a spectator at the game and not working as a broadcaster. ``I want
him to have to take 25 of them.''
Adbul-Rauf made 219 of 229 free throws this season for a .956
percentage. Murphy hit 206 of 215 in his record-setting season.
Denver coach Dan Issel said he never thought of removing
Abdul-Rauf from the game to ensure the record. If Abdul-Rauf had
sat out the game, not taken any free throws or made all his free
throws, he would have broken Murphy's mark.
``I didn't think there was any way he'd miss a free throw,''
Issel said. ``I really wanted him to get the record.''
Adbul-Rauf joked that he missed on purpose.
``I did that for a reason, man,'' he said. ``With the No. 1 free
throw shooter an old-timer, and the No. 2 free throw shooter a
new-timer, we can make a mean video, man. Mahmoud and Murphy. M&M,
man.''
Abdul-Rauf said he was teased in the locker room by teammates
who made choking sounds.
``I know I can shoot free throws and I know that I've been
consistent in the `90s, and I know that I just don't just listen to
people talk,'' he said.
``Everything felt good. The mechanics felt good, but when I let
it go, I felt it go a little short.''
|
| 10.1665 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue Apr 26 1994 17:20 | 7 |
| Speakin' a Shaq (somebody mentioned him in the Hornets note), did anyone
hear his comments after David Robinson scored 71 to edge him for the scoring
title? Shaq was whining that the Clippers played soft defense, and that they
should have triple teamed Robinson. He said that if he got that kind of
coverage, he could ahve scored 71 too.
Talk about a whining sore loser...
|
| 10.1666 | Thunder Dan beat the old record by 20! | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 26 1994 17:49 | 41 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (The Associated Press)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: 1993-94 NBA Milestones
Significant milestones achieved during the 1993-94 NBA seasons:
PLAYERS
Points
27,314 -- Moses Malone, Philadelphia, moved into third place on
the career scoring list, passing Elvin Hayes on March 22
against Charlotte.
24,000 -- Dominique Wilkins, L.A. Clippers, became the ninth
player to achieve this on April 18 against Golden State.
22,000 -- Robert Parish, Boston, became the 12th player in this
club on Jan. 14 against the L.A. Clippers.
Assists
9,000 -- John Stockton, Utah, and Isiah Thomas, Detroit, became
the third and fourth members of this club, Stockton on Feb. 16
against the L.A. Clippers and Thomas on March 23, also
against the L.A. Clippers.
1,000 -- Stockton topped this total for a record sixth time with
1,031 and won his seventh consecutive assists title with a 12.6
average.
Games
1,304 -- Malone also moved into third place on the career games
list, passing John Havlicek and then Elvin Hayes.
1,000 -- Buck Williams of Portland, Tom Chambers of Utah and Eddie
Johnson of Charlotte all played in their 1,000th games this
season.
3-Pointers
1,000 -- Dale Ellis of San Antonio became the first player to achieve
this total in his career with a 3-pointer against Sacramento
on March 19.
192 -- Dan Majerle of Phoenix made an NBA record 192 3-pointers this
season.
------
COACHES
Victories
900 -- Lenny Wilkens of Atlanta, a 118-99 win against Orlando on Feb. 2.
800 -- Don Nelson of Golden State, a 109-105 win against Utah on
April 16.
700 -- Pat Riley of New York, a 125-85 win at Milwaukee on April 22.
|
| 10.1667 | looking for a rematch | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 26 1994 17:58 | 40 |
| ATL
--------
|ATL
MIA |-------
------- | ATL
ORL |---------
-------- | |
|ORL | |
IND |------- |
------- | CHI
NYK |-------------
-------- | |
| NJN | |
NJN |------- | |
------- | | |
CHI | CHI | |
-------- |--------- |
|CHI | |
CLE |------- |
------- | PHO
SEA ----------------
-------- |
|SEA |
DEN |------- |
------- | SEA |
SAS |--------- |
-------- | | |
| UTA | | |
UTA |------- | |
------- | PHO |
HOU |-------------
-------- |
|HOU |
POR |------- |
------- | |
PHO |PHO |
-------- |---------
| PHO |
GSW |------
-------
|
| 10.1668 | Pretty bright guy, even if he misspelled his surname | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue Apr 26 1994 18:05 | 88 |
| From: cushing@mizar.usc.edu (Simon S.C. Cushing)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Mark Heisler's LA Times Column +awards
You know the score by now - I couldn't be bothered the last couple of
weeks, but MH gave his "awards" this week, so here goes:
(Heisler's disclaimer: "To maintain my usual high moral tone, I'll disagree
with the consensus as often as possible.")
MVP: Olajuwon
Runners up: Robinson, O'Neal, Pippen
Reason: "...Olajuwon..had two monster seasons in a row, leading his team to
two division titles."
COACH: George Karl (narrowly over Lenny Wilkens)
Reason: "we'll ignore the usual criterion - who pulled the most unexpected
turnaround - to vote for GK, performed a larger miracle over 3 seasons
[Mark is obviously forgetting this is Coach of THE Year], taking the
Sonics, who had gone 99-101 in their previous 200 games, to 140-60
in their next 200"
[Sound of "Coz" going "neener neener neener" to Scott Johnson...]
DFENSIVE PLAYER: Dennis Rodman
Runner up: Mutombo
Reason: "Some say Rodman doesn't play defence the way he did before he
discovered rebounds. Even if true, it wouldn't disqualify him because
he used to be, pound for pound, the greatest defender who ever lives
[and remember, he weighs more than Jordan] and remains great. ... I'd
rather watch Rodman play without the ball than 99% of the players in
the game with it."
MOST IMPROVED: Don MacLean, "who was tougher than his child-of-the-suburbs
game suggested and will be an NBA starter for years."
[Side comment: I was particularly saddened when Wes Unseld retired,
because the Bullets were one of the most PC (and for me that's not an
insult) teams up to that point: most of the players are white, the
coach was black, and the GM (or owner or something) is a woman. Call
me a soft-headed liberal romantic, but I think that was kind of cool.
(Oops, now I'll have Pinhead telling me my credibility's taken another
fall.)]
SIXTH MAN: Dell Curry (no others mentioned.): "averaged 16 points in 27 mins."
[Have to disagree with Heisler here: McMillan by a large margin for me]
ROOKIE OF THE YEAR: Vin Baker by a landslide!
(Okay, what he really said was: "Anfernee Hardaway, the PG of the '90s
(pre-Jason Kidd, anyway) [That's MH speaking, not me], nips Chris
Webber, the PF of the '90s who should get more than 9 rebounds a game."
MH also gives his rundown of the 16 playoff teams, but I can't be bothered to
type all that in, except this from his blurb on the Knicks:
"After an embarrassing loss to the Gonzo-less Hornets, Pat Riley said his
players hadn't stepped up and he, himself had ''failed miserably'' and needed
to ''go home, turn the lights off, and think about it.''
"The Knicks press corps, used to his mind games, decided it was less a
heartfelt admission than a ploy.
"The NY Times' George Vecsey [any relation?] consulted "The Winner
Within" and found a chapter called "The Temporary Insanity Textbook."
"Wrote Riley:''A leader's aggrieved outburst is not an explosion nor is
it a regular or predictable event. It is the art of being angry at the right
time, to the right degree, with the right people. TI requires plenty of ad-
vanced thought - a real, focused mental plan, not emotion-driven monologue. A
dose of TI demands a rapid follow-up of compassion.''
As Heisler wryly comments: "Mason can expect his ''rapid follow-up of com-
passion'' in the playoffs."
Latest on 'Nique is that he probably won't return as a Clipper - he wants $21
mil for 3 years, Clips are offering 2 at $6 million and a third at the club's
option.
People in Charlotte are pissed off at Gonzo's fight with Luc Longley.
"How stupid is that?" said a teammate to the Gaston, N.C. Gazette.
Said Club President Spencer Stolpen, after Mourning refused to answer questions
"He has to prove he's a he-man. There's no question what Alonzo did was child-
ish. I'd love for him to talk about it. I'd love for him to tell Chalotte how
he feels. It's just not his personality."
There is speculation that Parish will return to the Warriors next season.
[Speculation - the Warriors? What a surprise!]
Harold Katz hired body builder Lee Haney to bulk up Bradley, who has lost 25
pounds (now 220). Katz:
"We can't live with [Bradley.] I'm hopeful with Lee, there will be no more
excuses."
Bradley's response was that he's summering in Utah...
That's it for now!
|
| 10.1669 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Tue Apr 26 1994 23:50 | 42 |
| Hawks
--------
|Hawks
Heat |-------
------- | Pacers
Magic |---------
-------- | |
|Pacers| |
Pacers |------- |
------- | Knicks
Knicks |-------------
-------- | |
| Knicks | |
Nets |------- | |
------- | | |
Bulls | Knicks | |
-------- |--------- |
|Bulls | |
Cavs |------- |
------- | Sonics
Sonics ----------------
-------- |
|Sonics |
Nuggets|------- |
------- | Sonics |
Spurs |--------- |
-------- | | |
| Spurs| | |
Jazz |------- | |
------- | Sonics |
Rockets |-------------
-------- |
|Rockets |
Blazers|------- |
------- | |
Suns | Rockets|
-------- |---------
| Suns|
Warriors|------
-------
|
| 10.1670 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | TFO has been TFSO'd | Tue Apr 26 1994 23:59 | 53 |
|
Can't seem to get mail to Mike, so here goes--
Hawks
--------
|Hawks
Heat |-------
------- | Hawks
Magic |---------
-------- | |
|Magic | |
Pacers |------- |
------- | Bulls
Knicks |-------------
-------- | |
| Knicks | |
Nets |------- | |
------- | | |
Bulls | Bulls | |
-------- |--------- |
|Bulls | |
Cavs |------- |
------- | Sonics
Sonics ----------------
-------- |
|Sonics |
Nuggets|------- |
------- | Sonics |
Spurs |--------- |
-------- | | |
| Spurs| | |
Jazz |------- | |
------- | Sonics |
Rockets |-------------
-------- |
|Rockets |
Blazers|------- |
------- | |
Suns | Suns |
-------- |---------
| Suns|
Warriors|------
-------
Bonus # is 81
brews
|
| 10.1671 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed Apr 27 1994 02:08 | 5 |
|
one of our systems went down for some disk work or somethin'. I got yours
and Walt's extracted........
mike
|
| 10.1672 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed Apr 27 1994 15:56 | 3 |
| Glad to see the Suns are still getting no respect. Couple that with my
low entry in the woofing theorem, we should have some interesting
results ;-)
|
| 10.1673 | The Doctor speaks | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Thu Apr 28 1994 19:21 | 10 |
| Here are Dr. J's picks from ESPN's NBA Today:
COY - Lenny Wilkens
ROY - Chris Webber
MVP - Hakeem Olajuwon
Eastern Conf. Champs - New York Knicks
Western Conf. Champs - Phoenix Suns
1994 NBA WORLD CHAMPIONS - PHOENIX SUNS!!
|
| 10.1674 | | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Thu Apr 28 1994 19:30 | 2 |
| The good doctor must need to see a better doctor.
|
| 10.1675 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Fri Apr 29 1994 12:36 | 17 |
|
Last nights' winners
Miami 93 Hawks 88
Pacers 89 Magic 88
Sonics 102 Nuggets 82
Spurs 10? Jazz 9?
some folk still owe me tiebreakers....only game I saw any action from was
Magic/Pacers which Flyin' Byron Scott won with a 3 pointer with a few ticks
left on the clock....Penny Hardeway was awesome in the game and if Hill
hadn't given him a rest in the 4th quarter they probably would have won
the game. The Pacers wiped out an 8 point defict while he was on the bench.
Good thing for the Shaq that he gets superstar treatment or he foul out
of every game offensively.....
mike
|
| 10.1676 | you don't just 'arrive' in the NBA | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 29 1994 13:51 | 13 |
| > ....Penny Hardeway was awesome in the game and if Hill
> hadn't given him a rest in the 4th quarter they probably would have won
Yeah, but do you notice his tendency to over-celebrate when he makes a
big play. I saw it in the regular season, and last night once in a while.
Just his style ? His youth ? The NBA playoff run is an extremely long
haul, and maintaining an even emotional level seems to be the mark of
the good ones.
I didn't think Indiana would make me look this good, this early. Although
the easiest game to win on the road is *usually* Game 1. I'm going to
enjoy watching this young, cocky Orlando team go down in rnd 1. 1st
Charlotte, now Orlando.
|
| 10.1677 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Fri Apr 29 1994 14:10 | 21 |
|
Hornets won in round 1 last year Joe and definately had the Knicks scared.
If Oakley hadn't put the clamps on Grandmama like he did, The Bugs would
have won. Zo played Ewing even and Mugsy defiantely outplayed any guard
the Knicks threw out there. Knicks were dam lucky to win that series
last year.
Anyways some pool stats:
22 players in
12 picking the Sonics to win it all
3 picking the Knicks
3 picking the Suns
2 picking the Hawks
1 picking the Magic
1 picking the Cavs
nobody picked Miami to upset the Hawks........
mike
|
| 10.1678 | Magic show their inexperience | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Fri Apr 29 1994 14:19 | 9 |
| I humbly disagree on the very talented Mr. Hardaway. While he did post
some decent stats lasted night, he shot poorly (not unusual for him)
and made several poor decisions, especially down the stretch. Why he
heaved up that 3-pointer with the Magic up by three and less than a
minute left made no sense. Why the only time Shaq touched the ball in
the final minute was on a tip-in of an Anderson miss also made no
sense.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1679 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 29 1994 15:08 | 12 |
| > Hornets won in round 1 last year Joe and definately had the Knicks scared.
> If Oakley hadn't put the clamps on Grandmama like he did, The Bugs would
> have won.
Mike, your love for Mourning has messed up your memory. The Knicks beat
Charlotte in 5 games, and it very easily could have been a 4-game sweep
(they were up 6 with 2 (?) minutes to go in regulation of Game 3, took
some poor shots, and lost in OT).
The Knicks very rarely blow anyone out, so every team's fans think they
could have beaten them. But the reality is that only the Jordan-Bulls
have beaten the Riley-Knicks in the playoffs.
|
| 10.1680 | haw haw | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri Apr 29 1994 15:47 | 3 |
| > 12 picking the Sonics to win it all
nice to see all those wagon jumpers really go out on a limb!
|
| 10.1681 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Fri Apr 29 1994 16:17 | 6 |
|
I don't think so Joe. I watched the games and if LJ had played like a man
instead of a granny, the Knicks would have been packing. The Knicks can't
blow anybody out cause they ain't good........
mike
|
| 10.1683 | poor baby | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri Apr 29 1994 18:17 | 8 |
| 10.1684 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Apr 29 1994 18:27 | 3 |
| Robert Parish has said he will play next year.
I guess the question now is, where?
|
| 10.1686 | Celtics were awful, but ... | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri Apr 29 1994 19:12 | 10 |
| re: .1681
> Knicks can't blow anybody out ...
^^^^^^^^
operative word is anybody. Hey MikeyC did you forget about that 30+
point shellacking they gave the Celtics. I KNEW you didn't!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1687 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 29 1994 19:23 | 8 |
| > I don't think so Joe. I watched the games and if LJ had played like a man
> instead of a granny, the Knicks would have been packing. The Knicks can't
> blow anybody out cause they ain't good........
Mike, LJ really hasn't had many big nights against the Knicks, and the
reason is that he's just a tad small for that frontline.
I don't have time today to debate that last comment....
|
| 10.1688 | Isiah Thomas said the trade ruined their chemistry | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri Apr 29 1994 20:08 | 10 |
| > I'm really not sure which bandwagon you mean. If you mean Phoenix,
I assumed you were on the Sonic bandwagon since you took the bait.
> it happened that the Manning-'Nique trade to me was the single biggest
> move of the season. That's why I'm picking Atlanta.
Manning is banged up and it's not looking too good for them right now.
Mike
|
| 10.1689 | cain't sweep it under da rug! | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue May 03 1994 12:28 | 11 |
|
Yabbut at least Shaq can now go back to makin' rap videos and songs
for a few months.
Somebody delivered da broom and made it a 3 game sweep!
I remain,
formerly a custodian so Kev knows broooms!
Kev
|
| 10.1690 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue May 03 1994 12:38 | 6 |
| 10.1691 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue May 03 1994 12:55 | 4 |
| Doc must be jumping up and down in glee today. Inside Sport published
their Top 20 of All Time list for each of the major professional
sports. Heading up their list of All Time great basketball players was
none other than Wilt Chamberlain.
|
| 10.1692 | Alphabetical order????? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue May 03 1994 13:04 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1693 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | | Tue May 03 1994 15:46 | 6 |
| You have to realize that these playoff games get in the way of
cutting rap albums, making sneaker commercials and other things that market
the league. But I have to admit that Doc was right. Shack's (a.k.a. Deep
Throat) playoff performance was positively Wiltian.
/Don
|
| 10.1694 | | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Tue May 03 1994 16:03 | 5 |
|
Quinn Buckner canned. Big surprise, huh?
Kevin
|
| 10.1695 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | | Tue May 03 1994 16:03 | 5 |
| But on the positive side, it's good to see the fellows in short
pants settling their differences like mainly hokey players in the games
over this past weekend.
/Don
|
| 10.1696 | Get your skirts out lads to wear with your "sweaters" | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Tue May 03 1994 16:17 | 5 |
| How wussy has the NHL become when there are more fights in one weekend
of NBA playoffs than there has been in more than two full weeks of
playoffs in the NHL?
NAZZ
|
| 10.1697 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Tue May 03 1994 16:19 | 5 |
| kinda nice to finally see some hockey being played. Now if
we could get to see some basketball that would be real nice.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1698 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Holtz, ACC Crisp, TC* | Tue May 03 1994 16:48 | 12 |
|
Radio station here had the Spurs' play-by-play guy on TV. In talking
about Rodman, he said that one thing he does well is pad his rebounding
stats. For instance, on missed foul shots, he'll knock over his own
guy to get the ball and at the end of a quarter, if someone is throwing
up a 50 footer at the buzzer, he'll run the ball down (with no time
left) just to get credit for the rebound, as every missed shot has to be
credited with a rebound to someone.
Nazz, have you noticed this?
brews
|
| 10.1699 | | CAMONE::WAY | Snake and Nape | Tue May 03 1994 16:57 | 9 |
| > How wussy has the NHL become when there are more fights in one weekend
> of NBA playoffs than there has been in more than two full weeks of
> playoffs in the NHL?
Those aren't fights.
Those are hissy-fit-scalp-massage-fests. No one bleeds.
|
| 10.1700 | SNARF | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 03 1994 17:00 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1701 | Rodman is an overrated clown | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 03 1994 17:01 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1702 | | CAMONE::WAY | Snake and Nape | Tue May 03 1994 17:01 | 6 |
| > -< Rodman is an overrated clown >-
Yeah, and his hair is funny too.....
|
| 10.1703 | birds of a feather | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 03 1994 17:02 | 1 |
| Madonna likes him though.
|
| 10.1704 | | CAMONE::WAY | Snake and Nape | Tue May 03 1994 17:06 | 7 |
| >
> Madonna likes him though.
>
Oh, it's just a different Dick. Oh, wait, his first name is Dennis.
It's just a different Dennis then.....
|
| 10.1705 | | 38306::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue May 03 1994 17:14 | 4 |
| 10.1706 | Mtm, please set hidden .1700 ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue May 03 1994 17:21 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1707 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Tue May 03 1994 17:32 | 6 |
| I'd love to get Rodman back on the Pistons. He works hard, doesn't
need to shoot the ball, and loves the game.
When you average 4+ more rebounds per game than anyone else, I think
it's more than catching a ball at the end of the quarter...
|
| 10.1708 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue May 03 1994 17:42 | 1 |
| Rodman is a classic case - I don't like the guy, but like the player...
|
| 10.1709 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Tue May 03 1994 17:49 | 13 |
|
you tell em' Walt!
anyways off of the brooming the Shaq gang took we have
1 guy pretty much elimated as he had them to win it all...
2 guys had them in the finals....
1 guy had them bowing out in the semis...
7 guys and 1 woman had atleast winning this round....
10 folks had the Pacers.........
mike
|
| 10.1710 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Holtz, ACC Crisp, TC* | Tue May 03 1994 17:51 | 12 |
| > When you average 4+ more rebounds per game than anyone else, I think
> it's more than catching a ball at the end of the quarter...
There's the 4 rebounds right there, Walt, there are four quarters,
after all. 8^)
I didn't mean to say anything bad about Rodman, it was more of a
question on how stats are kept. I don't see anything different than
players taking meaningless shots at the end of the game, or worrying
about assists in order to get a triple double.
brews
|
| 10.1711 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Tue May 03 1994 17:53 | 3 |
| You're assuming there's a shot at the end of each quarter and he gets
them each time, right?
|
| 10.1712 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Holtz, ACC Crisp, TC* | Tue May 03 1994 17:57 | 4 |
|
Walt, I WAS JOKING! see the smiley?
brews
|
| 10.1713 | the Worm is done | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 03 1994 18:40 | 15 |
| Rodman is a fraction of what he once was. There are at least 20 guys in
the league who could average 20 boards per game. Barkley almost does
that while scoring 25 points per game.
Rodman leaves his man open to hit the glass - good defenders won't do
that. He's slowed in quickness now so he results to thuggery to make
up for it, and his hurting the Spurs chances because of it. He can't
guard people straight-up out on the wings like he used to. He goes after
rebounds from hail Mary shots at the end of quarters to pad his stats.
He's disruptive to team chemistry by not showing up for practice and games
when everyone else does. I'm glad the Suns didn't get him. Dumas'
condition is probably more curable as Rodman's and Richard has a
potentially brighter future.
Mike
|
| 10.1714 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 03 1994 19:06 | 3 |
| > and Richard has a potentially brighter future.
Dumas has to make sure he has a future, before it can be brighter....
|
| 10.1715 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 03 1994 19:08 | 3 |
| Even if that trade was made, all the Piston fans would be whining about
how they were taken advantage of. It was probably best for both teams
that the deal wasn't made.
|
| 10.1716 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Wed May 04 1994 13:27 | 6 |
| You don't know that. Depends on what the trade was. Maybe if Dumas
got out of the crime element of Arizona and in the warm friendly
confines of Detriot(tm), he'd have played a minute this season...
No problem BoRodman...
|
| 10.1717 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed May 04 1994 14:06 | 2 |
| The Spurs certainly did miss the Worm lasted night as they got blownout
by the Jazz.
|
| 10.1718 | and more | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 04 1994 14:11 | 9 |
| Cleveland joins Orlando on the early exit plan. Bulls sweep, winning
95-92 in OT.
Miami goes up 2-1 on Atlanta after holding the Hawks off, 90-86.
Portland stays alive by beating Houston, 118-115 in a typcial western
conference defensive struggle. The Rockets lead the series 2-1.
TTom
|
| 10.1719 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Wed May 04 1994 15:02 | 9 |
|
well 5 folks went down with the Cavs....
3 people have yet to score any points but I'll respect their autonomy
for now.......
8 people have picked both series correctly......
mike
|
| 10.1720 | | MKFSA::LONG | Great view from the cheap seats! | Wed May 04 1994 15:09 | 5 |
| I'm proud to be one of the few! You think it's easy to pick all the
loosers?!
billl
|
| 10.1721 | Webber is ROY | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 04 1994 16:33 | 6 |
| First big NBA award:
Chris Webber edged Penny Hardaway 50-47 to win the Rookie O' the Year.
Jamaal Mashburn got the only other vote.
TTom
|
| 10.1722 | he fell off the wagon in Oklahoma, you twit | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 04 1994 16:34 | 5 |
| > You don't know that. Depends on what the trade was. Maybe if Dumas
> got out of the crime element of Arizona and in the warm friendly
> confines of Detriot(tm), he'd have played a minute this season...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
|
| 10.1723 | close vote | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 04 1994 16:36 | 3 |
| >Chris Webber edged Penny Hardaway 50-47 to win the Rookie O' the Year.
It was 52-47.
|
| 10.1724 | just going by ESPN | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 04 1994 17:01 | 0 |
| 10.1725 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Wed May 04 1994 18:44 | 2 |
| Didn't he have a relapse in Arizona when he was moving back and about
to rejoin the team?
|
| 10.1726 | news to me | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 04 1994 18:49 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1727 | haw haw haw | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 04 1994 19:44 | 3 |
| it's just mind-boggling that either the Heat or the Paces will be in
the Eastern finals and possibly represent that tough conference of
champions.
|
| 10.1728 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels and Raw Beef | Wed May 04 1994 19:46 | 5 |
| Nice to see the Heat beating up on Atlanta. The Sharks did it in hokey,
why not the Heat in Hoops....
'Saw
|
| 10.1729 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Thanks Zeke... | Wed May 04 1994 19:52 | 2 |
| You're right... he was picked up for noise ordinance... my fault...
|
| 10.1730 | How to pad rebounding stats | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Wed May 04 1994 20:09 | 12 |
| Re. several back:
A missed shot at the end of the period does NOT go to an individual.
That is considered a team rebound. The San Antonio stats guys may
be padding his stats, but that might be too blatant a method. A more
likely way to pad stats is on offensive rebounds, where you count every
tip as a rebound and a missed shot. You can get three or four rebounds
a game off your tips, but in order for this to truly be a rebound, the
tip must be directed toward the basket, and not just a tip to keep the
ball alive.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1731 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 04 1994 20:46 | 7 |
| > -< How to pad rebounding stats >-
Rodman earns his rebounding #s, just as Oakley does. And there are not
20 guys in the NBA who can grab 20+ rebs a night, IF THEY WANT TO.
Rebounders are born. It's a skill and mentality. And they should be
appreciated in this game. If you control the boards, many more times
than not, you're going to win the game.
|
| 10.1732 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed May 04 1994 20:53 | 8 |
| Yeah, Knicks-Bulls could well be the series that determines the
East conference champion again.
Hopefully the Knicks this year will be like the 1991 Bulls who
finally beat the Pistons after a few years of futility.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1733 | piece of cake | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 04 1994 22:17 | 19 |
| >Rodman earns his rebounding #s, just as Oakley does. And there are not
>20 guys in the NBA who can grab 20+ rebs a night, IF THEY WANT TO.
>Rebounders are born. It's a skill and mentality. And they should be
>appreciated in this game. If you control the boards, many more times
>than not, you're going to win the game.
If these players did nothing but rebound, you're crazy if you think
none of them could average 20 boards per game. In no specific order...
1. Olajuwon 11. Mutumbo
2. Barkley 12. Dale Davis
3. O'Neal 13. Larry Johnson
4. Oakley 14. Mourning
5. Ewing 15. Thorpe
6. Robinson 16. Horace Grant
7. Karl Malone 17. Pippen
8. Shawn Kemp 18. Nance
9. Chris Webber 19. Daugherty
10. Cliff Robinson 20. Grant Long
|
| 10.1734 | one of everybody's faves | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Thu May 05 1994 12:35 | 15 |
|
Well 7 folks got burnt by the Suns' sweep. 6 people have gotten all
three series finished so far correct and only 1 person is O-FER!!!
It's killing me to protect his autonomy, but all will be revealed when
the point standing come out at the end of the first round......
;^)
The Nets could put all five starters on the All-Stupid team. It certainly
wasn't that clutch and grap vaunted Knicks' defense that got them back
into the game last night. It must be nice to be Patricia Ewing and get
10 fouls a game.....
mike
|
| 10.1735 | | MKFSA::LONG | Great view from the cheap seats! | Thu May 05 1994 12:41 | 4 |
| Damn Suns went and spoiled my perfect record.
billl
|
| 10.1736 | in the balance | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Thu May 05 1994 13:47 | 4 |
| Three-and-oh but I'm gonna be singing the blues in the East if'n the Heat
take the Hawks.
TTom
|
| 10.1737 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 05 1994 13:49 | 3 |
| 10.1738 | animosity | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Thu May 05 1994 13:57 | 0 |
| 10.1739 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu May 05 1994 15:42 | 4 |
| I've got the 0-FER.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1740 | slipping in the polls | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Thu May 05 1994 15:45 | 5 |
| For a minute I thought I was in the CROW note.
This, of course, lowers your Sandbagging Quotient (tm).
TTom
|
| 10.1741 | and shame on you too! | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Thu May 05 1994 16:08 | 1 |
| > Well 7 folks got burnt by the Suns' sweep. 6 people have gotten all
|
| 10.1742 | haw haw | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Thu May 05 1994 16:10 | 7 |
| >I've got the 0-FER.
>
>The Crazy Met
as the parrot in "Aladdin" said,
"Gee! Why am I not surprised!"
|
| 10.1743 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 05 1994 18:50 | 15 |
| > If these players did nothing but rebound, you're crazy if you think
> none of them could average 20 boards per game. In no specific order...
But since they don't do it now, there's more reason to believe that it's
not in their *nature* to think about rebounding, and rebound ! It's like
telling Wayne Gretzky that he's now a defenseman.
You make it sound like rebounding is something anyone who's tall can do.
It doesn't work that way...especially in the NBA, where every frontline
player can go above the rim. You've heard the old saying "80-something %
of the rebounds are made below the rim" ? If you've ever heard Paul Silas
talk about rebounding, you know that it's all about anticipation, positioning,
boxing out and desire. How many of your 20 players would be happy to have
their goal each night be 20 rebounds ? Probably not one, and it wouldn't
happen.
|
| 10.1744 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | | Thu May 05 1994 19:02 | 7 |
| I got a great idea for an NBA promo. First they show film clips
of Dennis Rodman taking swings at players, tripping players, taking his
shirt off after getting ejected from a game, etc. Then show him riding
his Harley onto the court, reaching in his leather jacket and pulling out a
9 millimeter and sneering "I love this game!". What do you think?
/Don
|
| 10.1745 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Thu May 05 1994 19:04 | 25 |
| Barkley, at a stellar 6'4", gets 20+ rebounds all the time, to go with
25+ points per game for a *real* well-rounded hoopster with talent that
contributes. He just doesn't average 20 boards per game, but he could
*EASILY* if he did nothing else like Rodman.
Just because you're a Brick(tm) fan doesn't mean you have the market
cornered on the intricacies of rebounding. It's all heart/desire and
positioning. How else could Barkley do it at his height? This ain't
rocket science. Being tall has nothing to do with it.
Unlike Rodman, the 20 guys I listed are *TEAM* players. They do what's
best for the team, including practicing and showing up on time, as well
as making sure they stay in the game since they can't contribute from
the locker room. This is why they don't get 20 boards per game. They
fill their roles for the good of the team, and do it quite well.
Bottomline: the Spurs wouldn't be facing elimination if Rodman didn't
perform senseless acts of stupidity like: grabbing an offensive rebound
and tossing it out to the wing instead of getting the easy layup or
deliberately injuring a player and getting ejected. Rodman's stupidity
puts more pressure on Robinson to score since nobody else on that team
can. You don't see Oakley and Thorpe treating their centers like that
- they contribute on the glass and in points.
Mike
|
| 10.1746 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 05 1994 19:14 | 6 |
| 10.1747 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Thu May 05 1994 19:53 | 4 |
| Rodman's a TEAM player... he's not out trying to be the best PG by
scoring 20 ppg. Other people score more, he does what he's paid to
do. Rebound and play defense. Selfish would be the "let me shoot
or I'll sulk" mentality...
|
| 10.1748 | All Rookie | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Thu May 05 1994 20:29 | 21 |
| Article: 13068
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Webber, Hardaway Head NBA Team
Date: Thu, 5 May 94 11:00:17 PDT
NEW YORK (AP) -- Golden State's Chris Webber, the NBA's rookie of
the year, and Orlando's Anfernee Hardaway, who Webber edged for the
honor, head the league's all-rookie team, announced Thursday.
Joining them were Vin Baker of Wilawaukee, Jamal Mashburn of
Dallas and Isaiah Rider of Minnesota.
Webber and Hardaway were unanimous choices in the voting by the
league's 27 coaches. Each had 52 points -- a coach could not vote
for his own player.
Baker had 46 points, Mashburn 44 and Rider got 38.
The second team was headed Boston's Dino Radja, a Croatian who
had played professionally in Europe but is considered a rookie in
the NBA. He had 35 points.
Other members of the second team were Nick Van Exel of the Los
Angeles Lakers, Shawn Bradley of Philadelphia; Toni Kukoc, another
Croatian, of Chicago and Lindsey Hunter of Detroit.
|
| 10.1749 | another example of stupidity | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Thu May 05 1994 20:40 | 4 |
| > You mean like Charles "I lead the league in Ts" Barkley?
I don't know if that's true or not, but Rodman leads the NBA in
flagrant fouls.
|
| 10.1750 | Mac, remember Vinnie, will I see you in crow corner | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu May 05 1994 20:51 | 5 |
| Is that the same Vinnie Baker who was stiffed by nba for rookie
all-star game?
Is that same Vinnie Baker who Mac considered a stiff because his stats
hadn't been built up in the beginning of the season?
|
| 10.1751 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Sunbrun-Winter-Sunburn-Winter | Thu May 05 1994 20:53 | 4 |
| shawn bradley? Isn't he the $million dollar injured boy who only
played 1/2 a season?
C-mon
|
| 10.1752 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Thu May 05 1994 20:55 | 2 |
| You mean a Knick doesn't lead the league in flagrant fouls? Pshaw...
|
| 10.1753 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 05 1994 20:59 | 5 |
| 10.1754 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 05 1994 20:59 | 6 |
| I'm not defending Rodman's play. I'm just arguing that rebounding is
a skill, and not something someone can do just because they decide to
do it.
An example is the few people players (at any level of basketball) who
follow their shots. You've got to want it, and work at it.
|
| 10.1755 | all in good sense, Joe | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Thu May 05 1994 21:13 | 6 |
| >An example is the few people players (at any level of basketball) who
>follow their shots. You've got to want it, and work at it.
yeah, but you only do that when you shoot within 10ft. of the basket.
If you do that from 20ft out, it's fastbreak city the other way for the
other team.
|
| 10.1756 | Mac, the years ARE getting to me but... | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu May 05 1994 21:27 | 11 |
| Mac,
it was in celtics note .249 and on for a few. But I stand
corrected I was discussing a baker - radja deal but not with you.
I of course was for it, I was one of few not greatly fond of the
previous slow white forward celtics had.
But I had vinnie baker in top 3 for roy back on feb-3 while nba
didn't have him in top 20.
Bilte
|
| 10.1757 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Thu May 05 1994 21:37 | 7 |
| re: .1749
I thought Oakley led the league in flagrant fouls. Maybe
Rodman overtook him.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1758 | Barkey numbers? | USDEV::JBONIN | Technical Surgeon, AYS | Fri May 06 1994 12:58 | 7 |
| How many points did Sir Charles get in the final games against GS?
I noticed his playoff per game average jumped up to 37.5. He must
have had a monster game.
John
|
| 10.1759 | points standing on monday | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Fri May 06 1994 13:35 | 11 |
|
Hard bite by the Spurs taken on the field last night as 13 folks felt
they'd advance. Everyone took a sigh of relief last night as the Hawks
forced a game 5 and lost that sigh when Denver forced a game 5.
TTom and myself are the only ones left with perfect records and of course
TCM kept his 0-fer alive.
mike
|
| 10.1760 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Fri May 06 1994 14:12 | 6 |
| yes! :-)
Am I mathematically eliminated yet??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1761 | ups and downs | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 06 1994 14:43 | 9 |
| Hey, Craze. Wait 'til nexted year!
Not only did Utah come through fer me but Atlanta finally showed up. I
like their chances now in game 5 at home. Meanwhile, what looked like
a_early lock, the Sonics-Nuggets series, took a nasty turn in OT with
Denver prevailing 94-85. I didn't see the game but the stats sound like
the Sonics musta stunk up the place cause Denver shot ~37% for the game.
TTom
|
| 10.1762 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 06 1994 16:13 | 15 |
| > How many points did Sir Charles get in the final games against GS?
>
> I noticed his playoff per game average jumped up to 37.5. He must
> have had a monster game.
Where ya been John? Barkley had 38 (game 1), 20 (game 2), and 56 (game 3).
In game 3, he had 14 boards, 4 assists, 3 steals, and 1 block to go
with the 56 points.
Re: TCM
See I told ya the Spurs had no point guard and wouldn't go anywhere. I
also told ya Denver would beat Seattle again.
Carnac_of_SPORTS
|
| 10.1763 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Fri May 06 1994 16:21 | 4 |
| ummm, I don't remember even discussing Denver-Seattle series.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1764 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | | Fri May 06 1994 16:25 | 8 |
| Did anybody see John Elway making an ass out of himself prior
to the Nuggets/Sonics playoff game? It was priceless. He comes
staggering out on the court looking like the spent the day slamming
down Wild Turkeys grabs a microphone and screams... "Let's get ready
to Motumboooo..." The ESPN sportscaster said that no longer was
Super Bowl XXV Elway's most embarrassing moment. Classic.
/Don
|
| 10.1765 | looked buzzed | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 06 1994 16:29 | 3 |
| Didn't he miss the pass to the mascot, to boot?
TTom
|
| 10.1766 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 06 1994 16:29 | 1 |
| does he still have those horse teeth?
|
| 10.1767 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Fri May 06 1994 16:33 | 7 |
| re: .1764
shame on you! you know that MikeC would have wanted to post
that gem :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1768 | NBA or NFL? | QUASER::JACKSONTA | The Men go Fishing! | Fri May 06 1994 22:56 | 11 |
| I didn't see the start of the game, but when Biff heaved the ball
past the mascot, they showed his wife and him as he sat down and spit
into a cup and I thought they both, especially her, were looking
zonked.
Hey, even the million dollar mom and dad need to have fun, or like
me, poor dad(-).
He does have big teef. I'm sure his dentist is happy to overcharge.
Tim
|
| 10.1769 | standings | CNTROL::CHILDS | Brillant, Charming and Nasty | Mon May 09 1994 12:27 | 31 |
| Standings below. Joe Huber was the only noter to pick the Nuggets' upset.
I realize it ain't much given his score but he's a Cleveland fan so when
he has a day in the sunshine we ought to make note of it. Looks like those
folk on the Suns ans Knicks bandwagons have the best chance of winning
this thing now. That'll be the last time I pick a Western team to win
it.
Player Rnd1 Semi Confernce Championship
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt Ashe 12
REK 10
Jessinator 10
IMJimbo 10
TCM 6
=Bob= 12
Nazz 10
Billll 8
Billthe 10
TTom 14
Kev West 8
Cowboy Garry 8
Karen 10
Chappy 12
Mike Fowler 12
Joe Huber 8
Joe Garbarino 10
John Maguire 12
Mike H. 10
Jeff Riggen 10
Brews 10
Mikey C. 12
|
| 10.1770 | | ROCK::HUBER | Cleveland Crunch - 1994 NPSL Champions | Mon May 09 1994 13:51 | 11 |
|
Re .1769
I think there needs to be a change in the scoring to reflect the
"degree of difficultly" of making a certain pick. For instance, when
everyone picks Atlanta, and Atlanta wins, everyone gets a point.
When only one person picks, say, Denver, and Denver wins, the person
who picked denver should get 1 point plus 1 point for everyone who
picked, in this theoretical example, Seattle. B^)
Joe
|
| 10.1771 | still going | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 09 1994 14:39 | 6 |
| The Seattle-Denver series wasn't a bad one to lose. I had them losing in
the Conference finals but I'm sure a bunch had 'em going further.
I still like my chances with Atlanta in the East, too.
TTom
|
| 10.1772 | Resurgence of defensive centers | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Mon May 09 1994 15:26 | 8 |
| A couple of weeks ago, I wus the only person who said Dikembe was the
defensive player of the year, although someone else picked him as a close
2nd. I can understand people picking Olajuwan, cuz he is a terrific player
and because the Nuggets haven't been on national TeaVee until this past
Saturday. But, after watching him set a series record for blocked shots
and stuffing Shawn Kemp, anyone want to change their mind ?
Keith
|
| 10.1773 | ascending | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 09 1994 15:37 | 5 |
| No doubt that Dikembe has come into his own. And in terms of making a
name for himself, beating the Sonics on national TV has got to help a
lot.
TTom
|
| 10.1774 | playoff schedule | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 09 1994 15:38 | 140 |
| Article: 13099
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (The Associated Press)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Playoffs By Series
Date: Sat, 7 May 94 17:30:08 PDT
All Times EDT
FIRST ROUND
(Best-of-5)
EASTERN CONFERENCE
Atlanta vs. Miami
Thursday, April 28
Miami 93, Atlanta 88
Saturday, April 30
Atlanta 104, Miami 86
Tuesday, May 3
Miami 90, Atlanta 86
Thursday, May 5
Atlanta 103, Miami 89, series tied 2-2
Sunday, May 8
Miami at Atlanta, 12:30 p.m.
------
New York vs. New Jersey
Friday, April 29
New York 91, New Jersey 80
Sunday, May 1
New York 90, New Jersey 81
Wednesday, May 4
New Jersey 93, New York 92
Friday, May 6
New York 102, New Jersey 92, New York wins series 3-1
------
Chicago vs. Cleveland
Friday, April 29
Chicago 104, Cleveland 96
Sunday, May 1
Chicago 105, Cleveland 96
Tuesday, May 3
Chicago 95, Cleveland 92, OT, Chicago wins series 3-0
------
Orlando vs. Indiana
Thursday, April 28
Indiana 89, Orlando 88
Saturday, April 30
Indiana 103, Orlando 101
Monday, May 2
Indiana 99, Orlando 86, Indiana wins series 3-0
------
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Seattle vs. Denver
Thursday, April 28
Seattle 106, Denver 82
Saturday, April 30
Seattle 97, Denver 87
Monday, May 2
Denver 110, Seattle 93
Thursday, May 5
Denver 94, Seattle 85, OT
Saturday, May 7
Denver 98, Seattle 94, OT, Denver wins series 3-2
------
Houston vs. Portland
Friday, April 29
Houston 114, Portland 104
Sunday, May 1
Houston 115, Portland 104
Tuesday, May 3
Portland 118, Houston 115
Friday, May 6
Houston 92, Portland 89, Houston wins series 3-1
------
Phoenix vs. Golden State
Friday, April 29
Phoenix 111, Golden State 104
Sunday, May 1
Phoenix 117, Golden State 111
Wednesday, May 4
Phoenix 140, Golden State 133, Phoenix wins series 3-0
------
San Antonio vs. Utah
Thursday, April 28
San Antonio 106, Utah 89
Saturday, April 30
Utah 96, San Antonio 84
Tuesday, May 3
Utah 105, San Antonio 72
Thursday, May 5
Utah 95, San Antonio 90, Utah wins series 3-1
------
CONFERENCE SEMIFINALS
(Best-of-7)
EASTERN CONFERENCE
New York vs. Chicago
Sunday, May 8
Chicago at New York, 5:30 p.m. (NBC)
Wednesday, May 11
Chicago at New York, 7 p.m. (TNT)
Friday, May 13
New York at Chicago, 8 p.m. (TNT)
Sunday, May 15
New York at Chicago, 5:30 p.m. (NBC)
Wednesday, May 18
Chicago at New York, TBA, if necessary (TNT)
Friday, May 20
New York at Chicago, TBA, if necessary (TNT)
Sunday, May 22
Chicago at New York, TBA, if necessary (NBC)
------
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Houston vs. Phoenix
Sunday, May 8
Phoenix at Houston, 3 p.m. (NBC)
Wednesday, May 11
Phoenix at Houston, 9:30 p.m. (TNT)
Friday, May 13
Houston at Phoenix, 10:30 p.m. (TNT)
Sunday, May 15
Houston at Phoenix, 3 p.m. (NBC)
Tuesday, May 17
Phoenix at Houston, TBA, if necessary (TNT)
Thursday, May 19
Houston at Phoenix, TBA, if necessary (TNT)
Saturday, May 21
Phoenix at Houston, TBA, if necessary (NBC)
------
Utah vs. Denver
Tuesday, May 10
Denver at Utah, 10:30 p.m. (TNT)
Thursday, May 12
Denver at Utah, 10:30 p.m. (TNT)
Saturday, May 14
Utah at Denver, 3:30 p.m. (NBC)
Sunday, May 15
Utah at Denver, 9 p.m. (TNT)
Tuesday, May 17
Denver at Utah, TBA, if necessary (TNT)
Thursday, May 19
Utah at Denver, TBA, if necessary (TNT)
Saturday, May 21
Denver at Utah, 3:30 p.m., if necessary (NBC)
|
| 10.1775 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon May 09 1994 18:31 | 64 |
| From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP/BILL BARNARD, AP Basketball Writer)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA 2nd-Round Playoff Matchups
The NBA's second-round playoff pairings, with season meetings
between the two teams, key players, outlook and predictions
(averages are for the playoffs unless otherwise noted):
EASTERN CONFERENCE
No. 3 Chicago vs. No. 2 New York
This season: Knicks won 3-1.
Key players: New York, Patrick Ewing (24.8 points, 11.8
rebounds), Charles Oakley (16.3 points, 14.3 rebounds), John Starks
(19.0 points in regular season, 10.0 in playoffs after returning
from knee injury), Charles Smith (12.5 points). Chicago, Scottie
Pippen (25.3 points, 9.7 rebounds), Horace Grant (15.0 points, 9.7
rebounds), B.J. Armstrong (12.0 points), Scott Williams (12.0
points, Luc Longley (9.0 points).
Outlook: New York has lost to the Bulls in the playoffs the last
three years and four of the last five. With Michael Jordan now
playing baseball, Chicago won just two fewer games than the year
before, but the gap between the 1994 Bulls and the Bulls of the
past three seasons will start to show up in this series. The Knicks
will clamp down on Pippen and hold the Bulls to a 90-point average
for the series. Chicago's chances could rest with the center
rotation of Williams and Longley against Ewing.
Knicks in 6.
WESTERN CONFERENCE
No. 8 Denver vs No. 5 Utah
This season: Utah won 3-1.
Key players: Utah, Karl Malone (29.3 points, 12.3 rebounds),
John Stockton (11.5 points, 10.8 assists), Jeff Hornacek (10.5
points), Felton Spencer (8.3 points, 8.3 rebounds). Denver, Dikembe
Mutombo (12.6 points, 12.2 rebounds, 6.2 blocks), LaPhonso Ellis
(16.0 points), Robert Pack (11.0 points, matched his regular-season
total of six 3-pointers in playoffs), Brian Williams (8.8 points,
7.8 rebounds).
Outlook: Denver pulled one of the biggest upsets in playoff
history by coming back from a 2-0 deficit to beat top-seeded
Seattle. The Nuggets are underdogs again, but if Pack and Brian
Williams can continue to play the best basketball of their careers,
they can give the Jazz a battle. Utah has more playoff experience
than Denver, but most of it has been experience losing. But
veterans like Malone, Stockton and Hornacek should find a way
against the happy-to-be-here Nuggets.
Jazz in 5.
No. 3 Phoenix vs. No. 2 Houston
This season: Tied 2-2.
Key players: Houston, Hakeem Olajuwon (34.0 points, 11.0
rebounds, 3.8 blocks in playoffs), Vernon Maxwell (16.8 points in
playoffs), Kenny Smith (11.8 points), Otis Thorpe (14.8 points,
10.3 rebounds). Phoenix, Charles Barkley (37.3 points, 13.3
rebounds), Kevin Johnson (26.7 points, 9.3 assists), Dan Majerle
(20.0 points), centers Mark West and Oliver Miller (both averaging
3.3 points).
Outlook: On the surface, this looks like another mismatch for
Hakeem Olajuwon against the smallish Suns, but Phoenix has a
diversified attack that even top-notch defensive teams like Houston
have difficulty containing. Assuming Olajuwon can get his 30
points, the Rockets need someone else to score 18-20 and someone
else to score 16-18 to outlast the Suns. Unless Phoenix can reverse
its regular-season trend of playing flat on the road, this series
figures to tip Houston's way at the Summit.
Rockets in 7.
|
| 10.1776 | Hakeem DPOY | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 10 1994 14:11 | 4 |
| Hakeem edges out David Robinson and Dikembe Mutombo to win the Defensive
POY award. Scottie Pippen finished fourth.
TTom
|
| 10.1777 | Isiah quits | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 11 1994 14:03 | 8 |
| Isiah has retired. It was a nice touch, too. He quit before the end of
his contract period and as such only half of his salary under the cap is
returned to the Pistons. If'n he had waited until July 1 they coulda got
it all.
Real class, right to the end.
TTom
|
| 10.1778 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 11 1994 16:35 | 1 |
| not too bright either since he's gonna be the GM
|
| 10.1779 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Wed May 11 1994 16:53 | 2 |
| He's going to the announcer booth...
|
| 10.1780 | Sporting News POYs | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 11 1994 17:00 | 25 |
| Article: 13141
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.missouri
Subject: Sporting News Names NBA Honors
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 17:50:18 PDT
ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Houston Rockets center Hakeem Olajuwon was
named the NBA player of the year by The Sporting News on Tuesday.
The St. Louis-based publication also named Chris Webber of
Golden State as rookie of the year, Lenny Wilkens of Atlanta as
coach of the year and Seattle's Bob Whitsitt as executive of the
year.
Olajuwon, 31, averaged 27.3 points and 11.9 rebounds per game
this season. The 10-year veteran has averaged at least 20 points
and 10 rebounds per game each year he has been in the league. He
was chosen in a vote by players.
Webber averaged 17.5 points and 9.1 rebounds for the Warriors
and easily beat out Orlando's Anfernee Hardaway, also in a vote by
players.
Wilkens was chosen in a poll of coaches. In his first year with
Atlanta, he guided the Hawks to a 57-25 record, best in the Eastern
Conference.
Whitsitt, 38, joined the SuperSonics eight years ago and the
team is 377-279 since. This year, Seattle's 63-19 record was the
league's best. Whitsitt was selected in a poll of NBA executives.
|
| 10.1781 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 11 1994 17:14 | 3 |
| How about them Pacers? Still undefeated in the playoffs...
Houston is favored by 4 tonight.
|
| 10.1782 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed May 11 1994 17:14 | 4 |
| I heard that the reason Zeke made it official now was so that he
could sign a deal on a broadcasting gig.
Ken
|
| 10.1783 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Wed May 11 1994 17:15 | 4 |
| why can't he sign a deal in July??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1784 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Wed May 11 1994 17:16 | 3 |
| Other announcer slots would be closed out by then? That's what the
theory is anyway...
|
| 10.1785 | Mr. teamwork strikes again! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - 1995 NCAA Champs! | Wed May 11 1994 17:43 | 4 |
| Nice to see the Little Princess (tm) is consistent to the end!
Me, me, me, me, me, me!!!!!
NAZZ
|
| 10.1786 | local opinion? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 11 1994 17:58 | 7 |
| Walt,
How's this playing amont the faithful? It seems a whole lot like screw
the Pistons from down this way. I caint imagine that he couldn't a worked
a deal with TV to sign after July 1.
TTom
|
| 10.1787 | Barry on Heat/Hawks | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Wed May 11 1994 18:07 | 115 |
| <<< VIA::DISK$OPERATIONS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;2 >>>
-< Welcome Back to the Boston Celtics Conference! >-
================================================================================
Note 28.951 The Miami Heat 951 of 955
LCALOR::PETRIE "put in Edwards!" 108 lines 9-MAY-1994 17:51
-< Laughing to Keep From Crying >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<sob*> :'^(
HEAT TOPS HAWKS IN ALL BUT THE SCORE
- Atlanta Deficient But Victorious -
by Dave Barry
Miami Harol_
Monday, May 9, 1994
ATLANTA -- This is not a time for sour grapes, Heat fans. This is a time
for all South Floridians to congratulate the Atlanta Hawks for their
victory yesterday, and to express the sincere hope, as they continue on
the NBA playoff trail, that they get hit by a bus.
No, I take that back. I'm just feeling a little bitter about the game.
I've analyzed it carefully, and the truth is that the Hawks came out
ahead in only *one facet* of the game, namely, Most Total Points scored.
The Heat dominated in every other important area, including:
[] Player Focus
Before the game, in the Heat locker room, I spoke briefly with guard
Steve Smith. I told him I'd seen him Friday night wandering around
Cocowalk [in Coconut Grove, kind of the Harvard Square of Miami]; as
it happened, that same night I was told that there was another
celebrity in that area.
"Guess who else was at Cocowalk Friday night," I said to Smith.
"Who?" he asked.
"Lorena Bobbitt," I said.
"Who's that?" he asked.
"You'd better not find out," observed Willie Burton.
My point is that here is a Heat player so focused on the game of
basketball that he did not even recognize the name of a woman who is
WAY more famous than, for example, Al Gore.
[] Coaching Intensity
We *killed* them in this department. Atlanta Coach Lenny Wilkins
hardly moved during the game; he just stood calmly with his arms
folded, turning his head slightly to follow the players as they ran
back and forth, looking like a man watching a lawn sprinkler. Several
times I thought he had fallen asleep in the upright position.
Meanwhile, Heat Coach Kevin Loughery was going into a berserk, spittle
-emitting rage in reaction to virtually everything that happened on
the court, including the national anthem. He spent the whole game
stalking up and down the sidelines, red-faced, shouting unintelligible
phrases and the occasional distinct word that was not totally
appropriate for Mothers' Day.
You know thost deranged people you sometimes see wandering around the
streets of large cities, arguing loudly and angrily with themselves?
Put one of those people in a tailored suit and stick him on the
sideline, and you have the Kevin Loughery Playoff Coaching Technique.
I bet they needed tranquilizer darts to get him on the plane.
[] Fan Support
Here there is absolutely no comparison between Atlanta and Miami.
This game - the deciding game of a playoff series, on a Sunday
afternoon - was *not sold out*. There were *empty seats*. The
Atlanta newspaper offered several excuses for this including "Mothers'
Day festivities". Is that lame, or what? I mean, South Florida fans
were *desperate* for tickets to the two games in Miami. Mothers' Day
festivities would not have stopped them. If this game had been held
at the Arena, you'd have seen South Florida mothers hanging around
outside, offering the scalpers whatever it took to get in.
SOUTH FLORIDA MOTHER: What do you want for that ticket?
SCALPER: Two of your children.
SOUTH FLORIDA MOTHER: You got 'em. Good-bye, Todd! Good-bye,
Jennifer! Sorry!
CHILDREN: It's OK, mom! We understand! It's the playoffs!
You don't see that kind of dedication in Atlanta. Do you want to know
what people are excited about up here? They're excited about the 1996
Olympics, which will not occur, according to my calculations, until
1996. That's what Atlanta is talking about. The paper here is always
running stories with headlines like
"Olympic Countdown: Only 6,937 Days To Go!"
[] Promotions
Here's a promotion that the Heat runs during games: A randomly
selected fan attempts a shot; if he makes it, he wins *a million
dollars*. Here's a promotion the Hawks ran Sunday: A randomly
selected fan attempts a shot; if he makes it, he wins *A YEAR'S SUPPLY
OF _POWER BARS_*.
I could go on. I could point out the clear Heat superiority in other
key facets of the game, such as the dancer facet and the mascot facet.
But the NBA, in its narrow-mined absorption with statistics, insists
on awarding the victory to Atlanta solely on the basis of the final
score.
OK, fine. Maybe next year. But before we forget this year, we Heat fans
should thank the Heat for a fine season, and we should also be big enough
to extend our congratulations to the Atlanta fans. Although they
probably won't find out about this victory until after the Olympics.
|
| 10.1788 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Thu May 12 1994 05:51 | 4 |
| I'm not local... but I'm sure they're not pleased. Not sure how he can
do this and still expect to be a GM type...
|
| 10.1789 | Del Harris to coach Lakers | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 13 1994 13:51 | 55 |
| Article: 13177
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.los_angeles
Subject: Report: Lakers Ink New Coach
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 23:40:07 PDT
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Del Harris, who formerly coached in the NBA
at Houston and Milwaukee, reportedly has agreed to a three-year
contract to coach the Los Angeles Lakers.
Prime Ticket, a regional cable sports network, reported Thursday
night that Harris will succeed Magic Johnson as the team's new
coach.
Prime Ticket televises Lakers games and is owned in part by
Jerry Buss, who owns the Lakers.
Harris resigned his job as basketball consultant with the
Sacramento Kings earlier in the day.
The Lakers, who failed to make the playoffs this year for only
the third time since moving to Los Angeles in 1960, fired coach
Randy Pfund with 18 games left in this past season to let Johnson
coach the team.
Assistant Bill Bertka filled in for two games during the
transition, then Johnson took over for the rest of the season.
Johnson said he took the job on a trial basis, and decided not to
return as coach.
Harris, 53, has a 332-341 record as an NBA head coach, spanning
four seasons each with the Rockets and Bucks. His teams made seven
playoff appearances during that span.
Harris began his head coaching career in the NBA with Houston in
1979. His teams there had a 141-187 record, with three consecutive
playoff appearances and one trip to the NBA Finals.
He was hired by the Bucks in 1987 and guided them to a 191-154
record, and the team went to the playoff each of his four years
there.
Harris also served as Milwaukee's vice president of basketball
operations for five seasons, ending in 1992. He joined the Kings in
September 1993.
His 1980-81 Rockets, led by Moses Malone, lost to the Boston
Celtics in six games in the NBA Finals.
Harris takes over a Lakers team that has been slipping badly the
past three years, corresponding with Johnson's retirement as a
player.
Los Angeles, which won five NBA titles in the 1980s, played in
the finals against Chicago in the 1991 championship series, but
they lost to the Bulls.
Coach Pat Riley left after that season, then Mike Dunleavy
coached for one year before moving to Milwaukee. Pfund, a Lakers'
assistant, was named to succeed him, and lasted almost two seasons.
The Lakers finished 39-43 this season and lost their last 10
games in row under Johnson, a record losing streak for them in Los
Angeles.
The Lakers have a mix of young players, such as Nick Van Exel
and George Lynch, and a few veterans near the end of their careers
-- such as James Worthy and James Edwards.
Unlike the days of Johnson or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the
present-day Lakers seem to have no players of star caliber.
|
| 10.1790 | This is a *huge* move 8^) | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Fri May 13 1994 14:19 | 6 |
| So in essence you get a washed-up has-been coach to replace
an enormous egoist(yea I like Magic) and Randy Pfund got handed
a jar of KY.
MikeL
|
| 10.1791 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 13 1994 16:53 | 6 |
| Everyone keeps praising Jerry West as a mastermind and that he's got
his Lakers climbing back into contention. Some even claim he's further
along in the process than the Celtics.
With a bonehead move like this, you would've done just as well hiring
anyone with a losing lifetime record.
|
| 10.1792 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 13 1994 17:16 | 13 |
| Yesterday's paper carried some of the reports from the Houston
Chronicles. They're really riding the Rockets hard down there for
losing game 2. One went as far as to label Houston the "Choke City."
He cited these reasons:
- game 2 of this Phoenix-Houston series
- Oilers losing that big lead to the Bills in the playoffs
- Phi Slamma Jamma where Drexler and Olajuwon lost the NCAA championship
- Astros blowing the lead to the Phillies in the '80 NLCS
Those people are downright bitter!
Mike
|
| 10.1793 | Go Pack! Whatta Team! | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 13 1994 17:29 | 5 |
| > - Phi Slamma Jamma where Drexler and Olajuwon lost the NCAA championship
The best of times!
TTom
|
| 10.1794 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Fri May 13 1994 17:37 | 6 |
| ESPN did a piece tied into Friday the 13th about the Oilers loss to
the Bills and the Rockets loss to the Suns. Quite interesting and
amuzing, if you're not from Houston.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1795 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | Hey Baby Que Paso!? | Fri May 13 1994 17:43 | 3 |
| >> The best of times
Yea, right here in ABO
|
| 10.1796 | crucial game tonight | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 13 1994 18:17 | 1 |
| Suns are going for their 13th win in a row on Friday the 13th.
|
| 10.1797 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri May 13 1994 18:21 | 25 |
|
Yabbut if'n anybody feels that this would be a waste of their time
tonight, might I suggest tuning into SportsChannel at 8:00PM (EDT)?
The show is:
Irish Hurling Highlights!
I remain,
supposing it's not BANNED over there, huh?
Kev
|
| 10.1798 | too | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri May 13 1994 19:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1799 | bad | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri May 13 1994 19:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1800 | ;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri May 13 1994 19:40 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1801 | another tainted rookie snarf from Farley | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 13 1994 20:02 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1802 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Sun May 15 1994 22:55 | 10 |
|
Pacers lead the Hawks 3 games to 1. Last 2 games were 20 point and 16
point wins. Knicks-Bulls is looking more and more like the conference
championship series.
Off-line until Tuesday night. Hopefully both the Knicks and Rangers
will provide good news over the next 2 days.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1803 | | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Mon May 16 1994 13:25 | 13 |
| >>Hopefully both the Knicks and Rangers
>>will provide good news over the next 2 days.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sunday, bloody Sunday Craze.
0-2
I'm not too displeased..
MikeL
|
| 10.1804 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | PoliticallyCorrectScrabble | Mon May 16 1994 14:03 | 7 |
| Given all that went on with the Bulls since Friday night and
given the Knickerbockers had a 10-0 lead yesterday, they might have
blown a golden opportunity to finish off the Chicago Bulls in 5
games. The most impressive team I've seen in the playoffs is the
Indiana Pacers!
/Don
|
| 10.1805 | NBA's nightmare | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Holtz, ACC Crisp, TC* | Mon May 16 1994 16:31 | 4 |
|
Wouldn't a Jazz-PAcers finals be fine?
brews
|
| 10.1806 | Pacers! | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 16:34 | 12 |
| > games. The most impressive team I've seen in the playoffs is the
> Indiana Pacers!
> /Don
Finally, someone to agree with! If the Pacers keep playing the way they
have been they will *cruise* into the finals. They have more weapons
in the half-court than anyone left.
Say goodnight, Lenny....
josh
|
| 10.1807 | they haven't been the same since | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon May 16 1994 16:38 | 1 |
| Trading Dominique is looking more foolish all the time.
|
| 10.1808 | Bad chemistry | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 16:51 | 15 |
| > Trading Dominique is looking more foolish all the time.
Agreed, but I don't know if the Hawks coulda won this thing even
with 'Nique. The Pacers present so many tough matchups that no
matter what you do thay can score. Larry Brown is doing a great
job of getting the ball in the right hands. And the Davis boys
are awesome!
In all fairness, Manning is playing better all the time. The
problem is that he can't play "point" forward cuz Mookie has to
have the ball. Manning needs triple doubles to be effective and
he won't get them on the Hawks. 'Nique gave them much better
chemistry.
josh
|
| 10.1809 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon May 16 1994 16:53 | 1 |
| I don't think there's anyone on the Pacers who could've stopped 'Nique.
|
| 10.1810 | Misc. | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | | Mon May 16 1994 17:03 | 26 |
| I haven't been watching much basketball at all, but I still
favor the Suns. I figured Seattle would have given them a
struggle, but experience and Sir Charles would find a way
into the finals.
After Pippin's incident, I sure hope the Bulls lose. To me,
some things in sports are worth more than winning (such as
character and the TEAM). If I were Jackson, I'd have kept
Pippin out of the next entire game. Ditto for Coleman when he
was found out at 5AM the day of a playoff game. Its out of
control. In terms of player character, these guys have no
clue.
And back to Chicago...what were the fans doing cheering Pippin?
Get a clue!
Aren't those Pacers something? Boy, that guy (Brown?) sure knows
how to coach, but why does he always leave?
Oh...lastly...I read about the discussion with Vin Baker. Being
a Bucks fan, am I psyched! He even edged out Mashburn. He was
the ninth pick overall and came in third. I think he really
picked up the second half of the year. Also played all five
positions. He's like 6'11" (pretty thin though).
Tony
|
| 10.1811 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon May 16 1994 17:05 | 11 |
| | I don't think there's anyone on the Pacers who could've stopped 'Nique.
Yabut his teammate could. Reports are that everyone on the Hawks is pissed
off at Kevin Willis for his refusal to pass the ball. Seems that Manning is
the most angry.
The NBA is turning into a soap opera: Teammates not passing, guys refusing to
play because they don't like the guy getting the ball, teammates fighting in
the huddle... OY
=Bob=
|
| 10.1812 | zip | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 16 1994 17:05 | 8 |
| re: 'Nique
Could some one please tell me what Atlanta won when Dominique played for
them?
Thanks,
TTom
|
| 10.1813 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Mon May 16 1994 17:15 | 4 |
| >Could some one please tell me what Atlanta won when Dominique played for
>them?
Sweatiest Player in the NBA Award?
|
| 10.1815 | Sonics blew it | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 17:29 | 7 |
| > I don't think there's anyone on the Pacers who could've stopped 'Nique.
Derrick McKey plays defense as well as any SF in the NBA. If the Schrempf/
McKey trade hadn't happened the playoffs might be very different (Sonics
in, Pacers out).
josh
|
| 10.1816 | re Vin Baker (probably number two in true value) | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon May 16 1994 17:52 | 12 |
| Tony,
There really was no discussion. I had to point out at the time he
was excluded from the all-star team that he might very well be in top 3
of roy balloting.
not only nba but entirely thruout sports there has developed a need
for normal, everyday fans input on decisions as this post 1980
case-study corporate mentality approach which has infested sports as a
result of big-tv money and influence has mad intelligent decision
making as scarce as in non-sports corporations (to be nameless)
billte
|
| 10.1817 | Wilkins certainly wouldn't have led Atlanta to the title | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon May 16 1994 18:18 | 21 |
|
Kudos to the lad a few notes ago who quite correctly pointed out that
the Hawks were perrennial (there's an extra consonant in that word
somewhere) losers with 'Nique. Dumping him for Manning was not a good
trade, it was a great trade. 'Nique at 34 is well past his prime. He
is an offensive player who didn't fit into Lenny's scheme of defense in
Atlanta. The Hawks problems are not with Manning. Mookie, Willis, and
Augmon have all had sub-par series. Yesterday, most of the team
couldn't throw it in the ocean. Look at these shoting stats:
FGM FGA
Willis 0 5
Augmon 2 7
Blaylock 4 13
Ehlo 2 13
When Andrew Lang is your second most preductive offensive player, you
know you got troubles!
NAZZ
|
| 10.1818 | Don't Like : Don't Buy | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | | Mon May 16 1994 18:20 | 30 |
| re -1
Bill,
My thoughts on sports being out of control...
What does free enterprise say? It WILL define the value of the
product. If the ultimate buyer of the product finds the product
too distasteful...don't buy the product!
I think there should be a fan union. Imagine if the fans were so
fed up with say basketball, that they went on 'strike' for one
weekend day of playoffs. What if collectively, most did not attend
games or watch them on TV?
Wouldn't that be great! Say the fans decided to strike New Jersey
cause Coleman doesn't have a clue. So the next game at New Jersey -
NOBODY SHOWS. And the Nielson ratings show that nobody watched.
Then you'll hit 'em where it counts - the wallet. Advertizing money
will go down, that sort of thing.
Bottom line for me is if someone doesn't like the product enough,
they won't buy it and in sports buying the product equates to
watching it.
On Vin Baker...The Celts salivated over him at the draft!
Tony
|
| 10.1819 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Mon May 16 1994 18:26 | 7 |
| >
> On Vin Baker...The Celts salivated over him at the draft!
>
Vin Baker -- a UHa STUD.....
|
| 10.1820 | Is a 2 game suspension enough ? | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249 | Mon May 16 1994 18:27 | 11 |
| Dereck harper mugged "Jojo English" friday night right in front of the NBA
comish David Stern. I thought what a stupid move if'n you are mad and feel
like hitting someone, hit Pippen, Cartwright, Kokoch, or BJ Armstrong not
some unknown guy named JoJo.
Harper should be forced to play hockey for the Rangers instead of suspended for
2 games.
What type of punishment would make this type of fool from throwing a punch in
the first place ?
|
| 10.1821 | Bad chemistry | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 18:45 | 12 |
| > somewhere) losers with 'Nique. Dumping him for Manning was not a good
> trade, it was a great trade. 'Nique at 34 is well past his prime. He
Point well made. Age alone makes this a great trade. But the Hawks have a
real chemistry problem with Manning in the long term - no SF. They have no
one to face up and create shots, and no one to play D on a quick SF. Ferrell
is the only true SF on the squad. And Willis, good as he is, is NOT a goto
guy in crunch time, as the playoffs this year have showed. They need a big
time scorer at SF to go along with their defense-minded backcourt. So the
re-building is far from over....
josh
|
| 10.1822 | Hawks may be one player away from a title - how 'bout this one? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon May 16 1994 19:18 | 12 |
| I agree that their real need is a sniper, but I think it should be in
the backcourt, a third guard to back up both Augmon and Blaylock.
Someone who would allow Blaylock to play 35 minutes per game instead of
45. Someone like Dee Brown!
With Ferrell an unrestricted free agent, the Hawks might be able to fit
Dee into that salary cap slot. I would think the Celtics would want
more than the 25 pick on the first round this year for Dee (maybe
Atlanta's first in 1996 or 1997 as well), but if I'm the Hawks, I'd
jump at that deal.
NAZZ
|
| 10.1823 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 16 1994 20:20 | 6 |
| The difference in ages between Wilkens and Manning might not mean a
thing if Manning decides to go free agent.
Lenny may be doing with the Hawks just what he did for the Cavs. He's
lucky to have the Nique trade for people to point at as a possible
excuse for the Hawks to be folding right now.
|
| 10.1824 | Hawks need a bench | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 20:49 | 9 |
|
I dunno NAZZ. Ehlo off the bench as the 3rd guard is almost their
MVP - he's super. Off the bench in the frontcourt? Ferrell. Keefe.
Lang. Pitiful.
Besides, I like Dee as a Celtic. Now if we could just ditch Douglas
(are you listening, Toronto?).
josh
|
| 10.1825 | Speaking of Toronto... | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 16 1994 21:04 | 36 |
| <<< NOTED::DISK$NOTES8:[NOTES$LIBRARY_8OF4]SF.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Arcana Caelestia >-
================================================================================
Note 1005.97 Jurassic Park 97 of 98
MTWAIN::KLAES "Keep Looking Up" 29 lines 16-MAY-1994 14:51
-< Canadian basketball team called the Raptors >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: FLAMBE::"dinosaur@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu" 16-MAY-1994 14:32:46.87
To: Multiple recipients of list <dinosaur@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu>
CC:
Subj: NBA Toronto Team Gets Jurassic Name
NBA-Toronto Team gets Jurassic Name - 5/13/94
TORONTO (Reuter) - Toronto's new National Basketball
Association team is likely to take the name of a long-dead
dinosaur made famous in the blockbuster Stephen Spielberg movie
Jurassic Park, Canadian newspapers reported.
Canada's three main newspapers all reported Friday that
Toronto's NBA expansion team will be called the Raptors, a
shortened version of the name for the velociraptor dinosaur.
The name was chosen from a list of three finalists by team
and NBA officials after a nationwide vote cut the original list
of 10 to a toss-up between Raptors, Dragons and Bobcats.
The name and logo of Canada's first NBA team will be
officially unveiled on Sunday in Toronto.
The Toronto Star, Sun and the Globe and Mail all reported
the new team's name as the ``Raptors''. The Star said the team's
logo will be a snarling dinosaur dribbling a basketball.
The Raptors are due to begin play in the 1995-96 NBA season.
|
| 10.1826 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Mon May 16 1994 21:32 | 2 |
| I think the Hawks could use Parish more than Brown. Koncak doesn't
strike fear in me...
|
| 10.1827 | Eh? | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 21:33 | 21 |
| > The Toronto Star, Sun and the Globe and Mail all reported
>the new team's name as the ``Raptors''. The Star said the team's
>logo will be a snarling dinosaur dribbling a basketball.
Uh....in the name of responsible and semi-intelligent Canadians everywhere,
I apologize. A snarling dinosaur? In Toronto? Puh-leeze! They shoulda been
named The Skidoos, but no one lissens to me.
The good news is that the RCMP has prevented the Vancouver franchise from
using The Mounties, which leaves the door wide open for further
international embarrassment. As a Vancouverite I have very strong feelings
about this....I am leaning towards The Ravens or The Rapids, but Kathy
wants The Land Otters....we shall see.
There will be a contest in the next month, so write in your votes
today! No, I don't have an address yet ;)
josh
|
| 10.1828 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Mon May 16 1994 21:36 | 8 |
| Vancouver Vacuum Cleaners?
They sweep the Knicks... they suck 4 Torr... the defense has been
upright in their face.... They got hosed... They're a bunch of
dirtbags... They're not afraid to get down on the floor and scrape...
|
| 10.1829 | ...or they really suck | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon May 16 1994 21:48 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1830 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Mon May 16 1994 22:06 | 3 |
| That was part of the Torr line... They really suck... how much... 4
torr because they're an expansion team, they grow to 14 nexted year...
|
| 10.1831 | Flagrant Foul | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Mon May 16 1994 22:52 | 8 |
|
TWEEET! Flagrant foul! Vancouver gets the ball AND Jason Kidd!
Enough with this hot air theme. How about mountains/trees? The
AxeMen, TreeToppers, SkyWalkers....anything....but no household
appliances allowed...
josh
|
| 10.1832 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Home of the driveby noter... | Mon May 16 1994 22:56 | 2 |
| You can have Kidd. The Pistons need help up front...
|
| 10.1833 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Mon May 16 1994 23:28 | 1 |
| Will Barney be the Raptors mascot?
|
| 10.1834 | | IVOSS1::EVANS_GR | A not so brave new world | Mon May 16 1994 23:38 | 2 |
|
|
| 10.1835 | Nice. | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Tue May 17 1994 16:19 | 8 |
| > Will Barney be the Raptors mascot?
Cute, Mike. We Canadians really appreciate this kind of support
from our Southern neighbors.
Bottom line: Barney can only play if he brings the bone.
josh
|
| 10.1836 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 17 1994 16:22 | 3 |
| >Bottom line: Barney can only play if he brings the bone.
Sir Charles already manhandled him in 1-on-1 hoops.
|
| 10.1837 | | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Tue May 17 1994 16:34 | 6 |
| > Sir Charles already manhandled him in 1-on-1 hoops.
Oh good. He needed a confidence builder after his last 2 outings.
Glad to help out.
josh
|
| 10.1838 | Eh, take off, eh....8^) | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 17 1994 16:55 | 19 |
| |Oh good. He needed a confidence builder after his last 2 outings.
|Glad to help out.
Take off you hoser 8^)
Barney couldn't give a dog a bone. But
"Madonna, she's a babe, she could give a dog a bone"
-- Wayne Campbell
"Wayne's World"
(played by another hoser....8^))
'Saw
|
| 10.1839 | Only logical | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Tue May 17 1994 17:12 | 17 |
| > Take off you hoser 8^)
Which reminds me....
Did you ever wonder where the term "Hoosier" came from?
The way I heard it, some poor slob moved to Gary from
Quebec, put up a basket, and taught the locals how to
play hoops. Of course, the locals called him "Hoser"
cuz they couldn't pronounce his french-sounding name.
So he changed his name to "Hoosier" to avoid confusion,
and the rest is history......
Which means, if you follow my logic, that Canada has
first-refusal rights on all players in the state of Indiana.
josh
|
| 10.1840 | "IfAllWeSoldWasColdBeer,There'dBeNoneLeft" | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Tue May 17 1994 17:17 | 15 |
| -1,
josh,
Tell me, do they still have 'Cold Beer" stores in Vancouver?
I was riding around the town one day looking for a case of cold beer
and the liquor store owner told me the location of a 'cold beer store'.
I couldn't fathom the thought that a liquor store wouldn't carry
both cold and warm beer.
Eh?,
MikeL
|
| 10.1841 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 17 1994 17:28 | 20 |
| Josh,
Did you know JD when he was up there for a while?
I don't know about Hoosier, but I know some folks from Ottawa and all they
say, eh, at the end of almost every sentence, eh, is eh.... I never
heard them say Hoser though.
There were a couple of dudes I met from Vancouver, eh, when I was up
in Seattle for a while, eh, really salt of the earth kind of fellows,
who were, eh, down to (quote) do a little binging (unquote) on a three-day
weekend. I can't remember what the holiday was, but it was one of those
strange ones, like Boxing Day, but I know it wasn't Boxing Day, eh,
since that comes after Christmas.....
Eh, here's to Geddy Lee, eh!
8^)
'Saw
|
| 10.1842 | eh off | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Tue May 17 1994 18:52 | 26 |
| > I was riding around the town one day looking for a case of cold beer
A whole case? Talk about rampant consumerism! Ya can only drink one at a
time, eh?
The beer stores sell singles, 6-packs and 12's cold. If you
want a 24 you get it warm, or you buy 2 12's. "Cold" is not
seen as quite so desirable up here as it is in, say, Phoenix.
Besides, we have good beer here - the kind some people like
at room temperature...
> Did you know JD when he was up there for a while?
Who's he? ;)
>I don't know about Hoosier, but I know some folks from Ottawa and all they
>say, eh, at the end of almost every sentence, eh, is eh...
I just moved out from Ottawa lasted year, eh? I'm more likely to know them
than folks around here. eh? Being from NYC it took me a while to get used
to, eh, but now it's automatic...it's not a bad substitute for the f word
I grew up with, eh? ;)
josh
|
| 10.1843 | Perhaps car co. is afraid team will be a lemon | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue May 17 1994 19:13 | 6 |
| That's funny because I was wondering whether Spielberg might want to sue
about 'raptor (Jurassic Park). Then I thought 'no one could be that
petty'.
Didn't DEC come to an agreement with the English vacuum cleaner company
about use of VAX (eg both benefited)
|
| 10.1844 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 17 1994 19:22 | 30 |
| 10.1845 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue May 17 1994 19:24 | 7 |
| 10.1846 | Rap Torrs... | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | PoliticallyCorrectScrabble | Tue May 17 1994 19:37 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1847 | like copyrighting any other reptile | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Tue May 17 1994 19:38 | 4 |
| There can't be a copyright on Velociraptor. That's like copyrighting
Brontosaurus (which isn't even the proper name - it's Bracheosaurus).
The term dinosaur wasn't even coined until 1841 and I don't think
scientists copyright these names.
|
| 10.1848 | plots thicken | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Wed May 18 1994 05:19 | 8 |
| Nuggets win in double OT in Utah, series is now at 3-2 with game 6 in
Denver. Denver lost by 2 in OT in game 3; wouldn't be surprised to see
Denver take this series to 7 games.
Atlanta wins game 5 and now trails 3-2. Game 6 in Indy.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1849 | | CSC32::M_MACGREGOR | | Wed May 18 1994 12:08 | 15 |
| >Brontosaurus (which isn't even the proper name - it's Bracheosaurus)
Are you sure about that Mike? I ask because from the Greek you have
the following:
Bronto - thunder as in Dan Bronto Marlele (sp)
Bracheo - short
Saurus - lizard
Somehow I'm having trouble seeing a dinosaur throwing up threes 8^)
Actually, I could have sworn that these two names were for different
species of the same genus.
Marc
|
| 10.1850 | passed grim | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 18 1994 13:45 | 10 |
| I'm about ready to jump on the Utah-Indiana bandwagon.
The Hawks only prolonged the agony. It's tempting to move to hope but I
resist.
The Suns look like they're headed to the sh*tter with 'em. You gotta love
the total bust that No Thunder Dan was lasted night. 0-fer in the first
half, sat out the second. Charles looked good but KJ forgot to play D.
TTom
|
| 10.1851 | Houston wants it more | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 18 1994 16:10 | 5 |
| >half, sat out the second. Charles looked good but KJ forgot to play D.
I don't think anyone in a Phoenix uniform played D last night - which
makes their medicore D laughable. Talk about having your worst day at
the worst possible time...
|
| 10.1852 | Suns are consistant | VAOP28::Rice | VAOU09::RICE | Wed May 18 1994 16:16 | 6 |
| I didn't see the game, but this is the way the Suns *always* play. Get
their backs to the wall, then try to pull it out. I expect them to
win game 6 at home, and the series comes down to a game 7 where
anything can happen. IMO the series is dead even.
josh
|
| 10.1853 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Wed May 18 1994 16:28 | 3 |
| Well Josh I hope you're right, but I can't see it right now. It would
be nice for them to do things the easy way for once. It's gonna look
awfully foolish of them for blowing a 2-0 lead on their home floor.
|
| 10.1855 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | TCM - World's Greatest Sandbagger | Thu May 19 1994 16:01 | 10 |
|
Now that Roseanne and Tom seem like they're splitsville for sure,
someone ought to fix up Marge Schott and the owner of the Utah Jazz.
America needs a wacky couple in the spotlight. Two people who them-
selves can keep the entire tabloid industry busy. Marge could make
her usual brilliant social commentary and Larry Miller, the Jazz
owner could get his picture in every once in awhile flipping out
when his dry cleaning doesn't come back right. We really have to
get these two kids together.
|
| 10.1856 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Fri May 20 1994 04:04 | 6 |
| Pacers massacre the Hawks in the second half and win the series 4-2.
Winner of Knicks-Bulls will have homecourt for the Eastern Conference
finals.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1857 | bandwagon has done been jumped | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 20 1994 15:20 | 6 |
| Wail, one half o' my finals has gone down the tubes.
I hereby announce the formal jumping on the Pacers bandwagon. How 'bout
a_Indiana-Denver finals?
TTom
|
| 10.1858 | Phoenix | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | | Fri May 20 1994 15:36 | 4 |
| I heard Phoenix won last night. How was the game? What
was the score?
Tony
|
| 10.1859 | All NBA | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 20 1994 15:54 | 47 |
| Article: 13258
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Sprewell Makes All-NBA Squad
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 13:30:29 PDT
NEW YORK (AP) -- It was no surprise that Scottie Pippen, Hakeem
Olajuwon, Karl Malone and John Stockton made the All-NBA team
Thursday. Latrell Sprewell was another story.
The Golden State guard broke into the elite group in just his
second NBA season, beating out better-known backcourt stars such as
Kevin Johnson, Mitch Richmond, Mark Price and Kenny Anderson.
The 6-foot-5 Sprewell became the Warriors' leading scorer this
year (21.0) after the team lost guards Tim Hardaway and Sarunas
Marciulionis for the season with knee injuries. He also was among
the league leaders in 3-point field goals with 141, although he
shot only 43 percent overall from the field.
His contributions, which helped Golden State win 50 games, won
him a spot on the All-NBA team in voting by a nationwide panel of
sports writers and broadcasters.
Sprewell, who averaged 15.4 points as a rookie after being
drafted out of Alabama, received 252 points and 29 first-team
votes. He is joined in the backcourt by Utah's Stockton, who led
the league in assists (12.6) for the seventh straight season.
Stockton, who averaged 15.1 points and shot .528 from the field,
received 356 points and 56 first-team votes.
Pippen, who replaced retired Michael Jordan as Chicago's leader
in a surprising 55-win season, was the top vote-getter with 485 of
a possible 505 points and 94-first team votes.
The Bulls forward averaged 24.4 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6
assists and 2.9 steals during the regular season.
Olajuwon, who led Houston to the Midwest Division title,
received 433 points and 68 first-team votes. The center was third
in the league in scoring (27.3), fourth in rebounding (11.9) and
second in block shots (3.7).
Malone, who averaged 25.3 points and 11.5 rebounds, received 417
points and 65 firsts. The Utah forward and Olajuwon are the only
repeaters from last year's first team.
Selected to the second team were San Antonio's David Robinson,
Seattle's Shawn Kemp, Sacramento's Richmond and Phoenix teammates
Charles Barkley and Kevin Johnson.
The third team includes Orlando's Shaquille O'Neal, Cleveland's
Price, Seattle's Gary Payton, New Jersey's Derrick Coleman and
Dominique Wilkins of the Los Angeles Clippers.
The 101-member voting panel consisted of three media
representatives from each league city and 20 representatives of the
national media. Points were awarded on a 5-3-1 basis.
|
| 10.1860 | The players didn't vote... | CSC32::GAULKE | | Fri May 20 1994 16:04 | 14 |
|
re: .1859
all-nba team.....
>> The 101-member voting panel consisted of three media
>>representatives from each league city and 20 representatives of the
>>national media. Points were awarded on a 5-3-1 basis.
IMHO, this award, based on the voters, is worthless.
|
| 10.1861 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 20 1994 16:08 | 1 |
| Tom, you're gonna hurt yourself jumpin on all those wagons.
|
| 10.1862 | rending | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 20 1994 16:45 | 6 |
| I got one foot on the newly announced Pacer's bandwagon and it'll be
steady for a day or two until the Knicks and the Bulls finish duking it
out. The other foot's still with the Suns and I'm thankful that I'm still
alive in that one.
TTom
|
| 10.1863 | | FRETZ::HEISER | no D in Phoenix | Fri May 20 1994 17:01 | 1 |
| Sorry, gotta start charging Pay Per Woof for multiple wagoneers.
|
| 10.1864 | group rate | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Fri May 20 1994 17:04 | 4 |
| Keep my tab open, Mike, to see if'n Denver wins and the Pheonix loses.
'Cause then I'm big time on the Nuggets bandwagon.f
TTom
|
| 10.1865 | Talking To Myself | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | | Fri May 20 1994 21:10 | 3 |
| re: .1858
I don't know, but I wish I did!
|
| 10.1866 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri May 20 1994 21:15 | 1 |
| Tony, check out the last few replies of the Suns topic (#36).
|
| 10.1867 | Looking for a lottery pick in the next season. | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249 | Fri May 20 1994 22:15 | 3 |
| Rick Aldelman got canned from the Portland Trailblazers yesterday.
About 2 years too late.
|
| 10.1868 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Sun May 22 1994 22:10 | 12 |
| Bucks,Mavericks,Pistons get picks 1,2,3 in the draft. Celtics
thankfully end up with the 9th pick, and hopefully Montross.
In 1981 the Celtics and Rockets played in the NBA Finals.
In 1982 the Lakers and 76er's played in the NBA Finals.
Since 1982 at least one team that made it to the Finals made it back
the following year. 1994 will have no repeat finalists. Noth of last
year's finalists did not even make it to the conference finals.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1869 | Nice To Win, But At What Cost? | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Mon May 23 1994 12:36 | 11 |
| Growing up in Milawaukee, it was nice to see the Bucks win
the lottery, however, if Robinson wants 100 mil (which is
what I heard), I'd probably prefer to draft second, save
hopefully at least 40 mil, and draft Kidd. (I think they
could also use a real good point guard anyway.)
100 million. I can't fathom that. With the money these guys
are demanding, I don't feel as good about the lottery as I
once would have.
Tony
|
| 10.1870 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 13:23 | 2 |
| I hope Grant Hill's there at #3... Hope the Mav's take Kidd instead.
|
| 10.1871 | ABTK | CNTROL::CHILDS | I got them GhostTown Blues | Mon May 23 1994 13:25 | 29 |
| Well there's a new sheriff in town and his name is Walt Ashe. Knicks have
to win it all for Walt to loose this contest.
87-77 is playoff basketball ball? Give me a break. GO PACERS!!!!!!!!
Player Rnd1 Semi Conference Championship
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Walt Ashe 12 12
REK 10 4
Jessinator 10 4
IMJimbo 10 8
TCM 6 8
=Bob= 12 4
Nazz 10 0
Billll 8 4
Billthe 10 8
TTom 14 4
Kev West 8 0
Cowboy Garry 8 8
Karen 10 8
Chappy 12 8
Mike Fowler 12 8
Joe Huber 8 0
Joe Garbarino 10 8
John Maguire 12 0
Mike H. 10 0
Jeff Riggen 10 0
Brews 10 0
Mikey C. 12 4
|
| 10.1872 | As long as Montross ends up a Celtic it will be a good draft! | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon May 23 1994 13:28 | 6 |
| Hill will definitely be there for the Pistons at 3. Dallas desperately
needs a point guard, and Hill is going to be either a 2 or 3, which
the Mavs don't need. Donyell Marshall might be a better pick than
Hill, though.
Ken
|
| 10.1873 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 13:30 | 1 |
| I think Hill can be like Pippen. Marshall I'm not as sold on yet.
|
| 10.1875 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon May 23 1994 13:46 | 4 |
| | Title: As long as Montross ends up a Celtic it will be a good draft!
Hardee-har-har. Actually, maybe the Celtics will take Dare, and Montross will
be there for the Lakers...
|
| 10.1876 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I got them GhostTown Blues | Mon May 23 1994 13:52 | 2 |
|
West would trade the pick before he'd take Montross.........
|
| 10.1877 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Mon May 23 1994 14:00 | 5 |
| Donyell is just like Scottie Pippen -- he chokes when the big game is on
the line.....
'Saw
|
| 10.1878 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 14:06 | 6 |
| Michael Williams, Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Dale Davis and Derrick
McKey?
Felton Spencer?
|
| 10.1879 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 23 1994 14:08 | 4 |
| Dare is rumored to be a Red favorite. It makes sense. Red always did
subscribe to the axiom that you can't teach height.
'Saw, I think you're being a bit hard on Marshall.
|
| 10.1880 | | CTHQ::LEARY | It'sBeenALongTimeComing... | Mon May 23 1994 14:19 | 18 |
| I like Dare and you know Red likes him fer three reasons; height,
talent, and he's a GWU main.
BTW, that "spectacle" at halftime was a joke. Gawd the serious demeanor
of all of them, that Ernst and Young guy looking like a Nixonian
security guard(only I know what's in that envelope cripes), that
marketing geek from the Lakers, etc. Jerry Werst gets my vote as the
idiot of the whole farce. Not attending because it represents
what the Lakers don't want to be.. please shaddap Jerry. Go grandstand
elsewhere. And Laker fans wonder why they're hated...
BTW can anyone tell me if that was Spike Lee or Steve Erckle at
courtside in Chicago Friday night. Get some real clothes and a new
do' whoever you were.. 8^)
MikeL
|
| 10.1881 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon May 23 1994 14:22 | 6 |
| | Michael Williams, Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Dale Davis and Derrick
| McKey?
| Felton Spencer?
Goes back to Tommy's comments on talent level. Imagine, Rik Smits is a STAR.
|
| 10.1883 | latest bandwagon | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 23 1994 14:29 | 9 |
| OK.
Now, I don't have to worry about no steenkin contest.
So were going for the Rockets and the Pacers. Caint go with Utah cause
they got that perennial loser Tom Chambers. But Utah-Indiana wouldn't be
that bad. The coin is flipped: Houston.
TTom
|
| 10.1884 | All known biases and pre-dispositions aside, of course | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon May 23 1994 14:31 | 11 |
|
I'm still of the opinion that if the Celtics can grab a player like
Montross (whose stock has dropped and is undervalued, not overvalued)
at a slot as low as #9, that this is good news, not bad. Okay, so
maybe you'd rather have Dare, but if he's not there, Montross both
fills a glaring need and offers some future development of unfulfilled
potential, all from what should be properly recognized as a pretty
crummy draft slot...
glenn
|
| 10.1885 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 14:32 | 3 |
| Didn't say Smits was a star but his numbers are better than a lot of
team's centers... Miller would be the "franchise" player...
|
| 10.1886 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Mon May 23 1994 14:46 | 21 |
| re me being hard on Marshall:
Considering that the only time in his career when he was called
upon to be THE MAN in the biggest game of his career, and he
choked, until he proves otherwise, he wears that label.
Folks in Connecticut love Donyell Marshall, don't get me wrong. He
provided a lot of excitement in his career here.
He's not the brightest individual (I know this from people who know him)
and it's unlikely he'll get his degree any time soon, but he certainly
can play.
However, his image is tarnished by his whining during the BET and NCAA
tourneys, about the pressure of being the go-to guy -- what most of us
call the "I want my mommy speech", and by his leaving school early to
go into the NBA....
'saw
|
| 10.1887 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon May 23 1994 14:46 | 10 |
| | Title: All known biases and pre-dispositions aside, of course
All known biases aside, I don't think Montross has the tools to be more than
a_NBA back-up. He's too slow, one demensional on offense, and prone to
dissapearing. I also don't think he has too far to go to reach his full
potential.
JMHO of course.
=Bob=
|
| 10.1888 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | 10+40+60=ByeBye | Mon May 23 1994 15:50 | 8 |
| If there's a better player than Montross or Dare at #9 you take
him. You can't teach height, but you can't teach talent either. Most
of the really bad teams waste good draft picks every year chasing
down that elusive "big man". Wonder how many banners would be hanging
in Portland had they taken the smaller Michael Jordan instead of
Sad Sam Bowie?
/Don
|
| 10.1889 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Mon May 23 1994 15:51 | 2 |
| re .1886: Gee, 'Saw, those are almost as good as your reasons for
hating Greenwell and Casey.
|
| 10.1890 | | USCTR1::KING | Cemeteries = Parks with nice stones... | Mon May 23 1994 16:02 | 4 |
| Great.. Dare and A c Earl have a 100 meter race.... Called half way
through because of the 2 minute time limit...
REK
|
| 10.1891 | don't compare him to A.C. | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Mon May 23 1994 16:17 | 7 |
| re: 1890
I don't think you've seen much of Dare, This guy is the most athletic
center in the draft (its the skills & attitude that are the question
marks).
KB
|
| 10.1892 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Yankees are an embarassment-GeorgeK | Mon May 23 1994 16:31 | 4 |
| I think Dare will be long gone by the time the Celtics draft.
HE'll probably be the 4th or 5th guy taken.
brews
|
| 10.1893 | | USCTR1::KING | Cemeteries = Parks with nice stones... | Mon May 23 1994 16:32 | 6 |
| Dare has to be the sloooooowwwwest person in the draft and from
seeing him 4 or 5 times on TV he cannot move side-to-side
to save his life. In the NBA he will foul out in 6 minutes
every other game....
REK
|
| 10.1894 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon May 23 1994 16:43 | 3 |
| re .1893
You sure you're not confusing him with Montross?
|
| 10.1895 | Magic, Prince and Janet to buy Wolves? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 23 1994 16:54 | 47 |
| Article: 13311
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.world.asia.japan
Subject: Johnson Eying Timberwolves Buy
Date: Mon, 23 May 94 6:20:13 PDT
TOKYO (AP) -- Magic Johnson said Monday he wants to buy the
Minnesota Timberwolves with a group that includes singers Prince
and Janet Jackson.
The former Los Angeles Lakers star, in Japan for a tour with his
all-star team, also hinted that he'd like to buy a part of some
other team if the Timberwolves deal doesn't work out.
``We are trying to buy the Minnesota Timberwolves. Hopefully
that'll work out,'' Johnson said at a news conference when asked
whether he's teaming up with Jackson, Prince and Minnesota music
producers Jimmy Jam Harris and Terry Lewis to buy the team.
``I know by next season I'll be part owner of a team.''
He didn't say how much the group was willing to pay or give
other details.
NBA commissioner David Stern said last month that he had
discussions with Harris and Lewis about buying the Timberwolves.
The team has been put on the block by owners Marvin Wolfenson and
Harvey Ratner.
Investors in New Orleans, San Diego and Nashville, Tenn., have
expressed interest in buying the team and moving it.
But the Minnesota state legislature approved legislation earlier
this month authorizing a public buyout of the Target Center arena
in Minneapolis for $42 million. That will make it easier for local
buyers to purchase the team.
Johnson, who retired from the Lakers in 1991 after discovering
he was infected with the virus that causes AIDS, said he's had
enough of coaching after a brief stint with the Lakers at the end
of this season.
``After going through it for eight to 10 games, I knew coaching
wasn't for me,'' Johnson said. ``It's a seven-day-a-week job, and I
like to work only a couple days a week.''
Johnson's all-star team, made up mostly of current and former
NBA players, is playing four games against the Japanese national
team in Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya.
``I've seen Magic Johnson on TV. But just to meet him is
fantastic, and to actually play in a game against him is fantastic
too,'' Japanese captain Toshihiro Goto said.
One Japanese reporter wondered whether Johnson would be
interested in coaching the Japanese team, which is hoping to make
the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, ``even for just a month or a week.''
``That's a great thought. I know this country could afford me,''
Johnson replied.
|
| 10.1896 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Yes I Am !!! | Mon May 23 1994 16:58 | 5 |
|
Haywoode Workman has been starting at the point for the Pacers. They
have Pooh Richardson, but he was injured and not on the playoff roster.
Ron
|
| 10.1897 | NBA draft order | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Mon May 23 1994 16:58 | 70 |
| Article: 13303
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Draft Order
Date: Sun, 22 May 94 14:00:09 PDT
NEW YORK (AP) -- The selection order for the 1994 NBA draft, to
be held June 29 in Indianapolis:
First Round
1. Milwaukee
2. Dallas
3. Detroit
4. Minnesota
5. Washington
6. Philadelphia
7. Los Angeles Clippers
8. Sacramento
9. Boston
10. Los Angeles Lakers
11. Seattle (from Charlotte)
12. Miami
13. Denver
14. New Jersey
15. Indiana
16. Golden State (from Cleveland)
17. Portland
18. Milwaukee (from Orlando)
19. Dallas (from Golden State)
20. Philadelphia (from Utah)
21. Chicago
22. San Antonio
23. Phoenix
24. New York
25. x-Atlanta OR LA Clippers
26. New York (from Houston via Atlanta)
27. Orlando (from Seattle via LA Clippers)
x-The Clippers have the right to acquire Atlanta's first round
choice in 1994 or 1995. They must exercise this option by June 1,
1994.
Second Round
28. Dallas
29. Minnesota
30. y-Washington (from Milwaukee via Denver)
31. Phoenix (from Detroit via San Antonio)
32. Washington
33. Philadelphia
34. Atlanta (from LA Clippers)
35. Sacramento
36. Boston
37. Seattle (from LA Lakers)
38. Charlotte
39. Golden State (from Denver)
40. Miami
41. Indiana (from New Jersey via Philadelphia)
42. Cleveland
43. Portland
44. Indiana
45. Golden State
46. Milwaukee (from Orlando)
47. Utah
48. Detroit (from San Antonio via Sacramento)
49. Chicago
50. Phoenix
51. Sacramento (from Atlanta)
52. Phoenix (from New York)
53. Houston
54. Seattle
y-Denver has assigned to Orlando the right to acquire this
choice from Washington. Orlando must exercise this option by June
14, 1994.
|
| 10.1898 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 17:01 | 13 |
| 1* Milwaukee 20 62 .244 16.40 Robinson
2 Dallas 13 69 .159 25.00 Kidd
3* Detroit 20 62 .244 16.30 Hill
4* Minnesota 20 62 .244 16.40 Marshall?
5 Washington 24 58 .234 9.40 Dare
6 Philadelphia 25 57 .305 6.60 Howard
7 L.A. Clippers 27 55 .329 4.40 ???
8 Sacramento 28 54 .341 2.70 Sharone Wright
9 Boston 32 50 .390 1.50
10 L.A. Lakers 33 49 .402 0.80
11 Seattle
Does this seem reasonable?
|
| 10.1899 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 17:06 | 3 |
| That's right. I get Williams and Richardson mixed up since they were
traded for each other...
|
| 10.1900 | HAW | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon May 23 1994 17:10 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1901 | Playoff leaders | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon May 23 1994 17:57 | 69 |
| Article 13302 of clari.sports.basketball:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: NBA Playoff Scoring Leaders [May 22]
Copyright: 1994 by The Associated Press, R
NEW YORK (AP) -- The NBA individual playoff scoring, field
goal percentage, rebounding and assist leaders through May 21:
Scoring
G FG FT Pts Avg
Olajuwon, Hou. 11 141 54 337 30.6
K. Malone, Utah 11 113 78 304 27.6
Barkley, Phoe. 10 110 42 276 27.6
K. Johnson, Phoe. 10 97 69 266 26.6
Mullin, G.S. 3 30 10 76 25.3
Coleman, N.J. 4 27 39 98 24.5
Ewing, N.Y. 10 89 62 241 24.1
Strickland, Port. 4 36 22 94 23.5
Pippen, Chi. 9 77 43 208 23.1
Sprewell, G.S. 3 26 8 68 22.7
Miller, Ind. 9 67 42 198 22.0
Drexler, Port. 4 31 19 84 21.0
O'Neal, Orl. 3 23 16 62 20.7
Wilkins, Clev. 3 20 14 61 20.3
Manning, Atl. 11 84 52 220 20.0
Robinson, S.A. 4 30 20 80 20.0
Owens, G.S. 3 25 9 59 19.7
Smith, Mia. 5 33 21 96 19.2
Hardaway, Orl. 3 22 7 56 18.7
Schrempf, Sea. 5 26 39 93 18.6
------
Field Goal Percentage
FG FGA Pct
Williams, Port. 19 28 .679
Brandon, Clev. 12 19 .632
Thorpe, Hou. 68 115 .591
Mullin, G.S. 30 51 .588
Grayer, G.S. 11 20 .550
Webber, G.S. 22 40 .550
Grant, Chi. 58 106 .547
Olajuwon, Hou. 141 262 .538
D. Davis, Ind. 33 62 .532
Coles, Mia. 25 47 .532
------
Rebounding
G Off Def Tot Avg
Rodman, S.A. 3 24 24 48 16.0
Coleman, N.J. 4 19 38 57 14.3
O'Neal, Orl. 3 17 23 40 13.3
Barkley, Phoe. 10 34 96 130 13.0
Olajuwon, Hou. 11 32 107 139 12.6
K. Malone, Utah 11 34 101 135 12.3
Mutombo, Den. 12 40 104 144 12.0
Oakley, N.Y. 10 48 68 116 11.6
Ewing, N.Y. 10 27 87 114 11.4
D. Davis, Ind. 9 40 61 101 11.2
------
Assists
G No. Avg.
Stockton, Utah 11 110 10.0
Strickland, Port. 4 39 9.8
K. Johnson, Phoe. 10 96 9.6
Webber, G.S. 3 27 9.0
Blaylock, Atl. 11 98 8.9
Workman, Ind. 9 73 8.1
Hardaway, Orl. 3 21 7.0
Sprewell, G.S. 3 21 7.0
K. Anderson, N.J. 4 27 6.8
Payton, Sea. 5 28 5.6
|
| 10.1902 | 1994 NBA Draft | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon May 23 1994 18:50 | 62 |
| Seems like the draft should have its own note. We can discuss who's gonna
take who, and when, here. With the draft only a month away, here's my
predictions:
FIRST ROUND
1. Milwaukee - Glen Robinson 6-8 F Purdue
2. Dallas - Jason Kidd 6-4 G Cal
3. Detroit - Grant Hill 6-7 G/F Duke
4. Minnesota - Eric Montross 7-0 C North Carolina
5. Washington - Juwan Howard 6-9 F Michigan
6. Philadelphia - Sharone Wright 6-11 F/C Clemson
7. L.A. Clippers - Lamond Murray 6-7 G/F Cal
8. Sacramento - Yinka Dare 7-1 C George Washington
9. Boston - Donyell Marshall 6-9 F UConn
10. L.A. Lakers - Clifford Rozier 6-9 F Louisville
11. Seattle (from Charlotte) - Wesley Person 6-6 G Auburn
12. Miami - Khalid Reeves 6-1 G Arizona
13. Denver - Jalen Rose 6-8 G Michigan
14. New Jersey - Aaron McKie 6-5 G Temple
15. Indiana - Eric Piatkowski 6-7 F Nebraska
16. Golden State (from Cleveland) - Jim McIlvaine 7-1 C Marquette
17. Portland - Carlos Rogers 6-11 F/C Tennessee St.
18. Milwaukee (from Orlando) Eric Mobley 6-11 C Pitt
19. Dallas (from Golden State) - B.J. Tyler 6-1 G Texas
20. Philadelphia (from Utah) Eddie Jones 6-6 G/F Temple
21. Chicago - Dickie Simpkins 6-10 F/C Providence
22. San Antonio - Billy Curley 6-9 F Boston College
23. Phoenix - Voshon Lenard 6-4 G Minnesota
24. New York - Monty Williams 6-7 F Notre Dame
25. Atlanta - Charles Claxton 7-0 C Georgia
26. New York (from Houston) - Derrick Phelps 6-3 G North Carolina
27. Orlando (from Seattle) - Deon Thomas 6-8 F Illinois
SECOND ROUND
28. Dallas - Billy McCaffrey 6-4 G Vanderbilt
29. Minnesota - Brian Grant 6-8 F Xavier
30. Orlando (from Mil via Den and Wash) - Greg Minor 6-5 G/F Louisville
31. Phoenix (from Det via SA) - Kendrick Warren 6-8 F VCU
32. Washington - Dontonio Wingfield 6-8 F Cincinnati
33. Philadelphia - Steve Woodberry 6-5 G Kansas
34. Atlanta (from LA Clippers) - Charlie Ward 6-1 G Florida State
35. Sacramento - Damon Bailey 6-3 G Indiana
36. Boston - Adrian Autry 6-4 G Syracuse
37. Seattle (from LA Lakers) - Jevon Crudup 6-9 F Missouri
38. Charlotte - Kevin Salvadori 7-0 F/C North Carolina
39. Golden State (from Denver) - Michael Smith 6-8 F Providence
40. Miami - Jeff Webster 6-8 F Oklahoma
41. Indiana (from NJ via Philly) - Dwayne Morton 6-6 G/F Louisville
42. Cleveland - Lawrence Funderburke 6-9 C Ohio State
43. Portland - Derrick Alston 6-11 F/C Duquesne
44. Indiana - Jervaughn Scales 6-7 F Southern
45. Milwaukee (from Orlando) - Jamie Brandon 6-4 G LSU
46. Golden State - Arturas Karnishovas 6-8 F Seton Hall
47. Utah - Melvin Booker 6-2 G Missouri
48. Detroit (from SA via Sac) - Shawnelle Scott 6-11 F/C St. John's
49. Chicago - Shon Tarver 6-6 G UCLA
50. Phoenix - Mike Nahar 7-0 C Wright State
51. Sacramento (from Atlanta) - Brooks Thompson 6-4 G Oklahoma State
52. Phoenix (from New York) - Antonio Lang 6-8 F Duke
53. Houston - Kevin Rankin 6-11 F Northwestern
54. Seattle - Travis Ford 5-9 G Kentucky
|
| 10.1903 | I don't think so | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Mon May 23 1994 19:14 | 6 |
| you really think Marshall will be left at #9??? or is it wishful thinking?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1904 | random thoughts | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon May 23 1994 19:17 | 49 |
| I think it will get real interesting after the first 3. Big Dog is a
no-brainer, Dallas has already said they need a PG and are rabid for
Kidd, Grant Hill is the last of the elite so Detroit will take him.
Fat Lever was playing PG for Dallas so they're desparate for a PG.
I also don't think the order will stay like this. I wouldn't be
surprised to see the elite (past and present) try to trade-up. Jerry
West doesn't appear to be the type to be content with #10. Chicago
will try to move up too. If Barkley retires, Phoenix won't have a
choice in trying to move up. Seattle has lots of bench support and a #11
to offer to get a high pick.
Some of these picks don't make sense to me either. For example, the
Spurs biggest needs are a point-guard and/or another outside shooter.
Drafting Curley would get them an F on the report card.
Phoenix desperately needs a center (doesn't everyone?), but could also
use another player who can shoot but also create their own shot off the
dribble. KJ & Barkley dictate how the Suns go as a team. KJ is the
only one that can create off the dribble. Having someone like Ron
Harper (who's also a free agent) at the #2 spot would make them a very
serious threat (provided Charles stays). Ron Harper can shoot anywhere
on the court and can create his own shot off the dribble.
I think Jerry West saw enough of Rozier in March to know that's not
what he wants.
Why would Miami draft another guard? Trade bait? They already have Miner,
Shaw, Coles, etc.
Rose would certainly be a good pick for Denver. They'd only improve
and would give them a pretty tall starting 5.
Golden St. with a decent center and a healthy Tim Hardaway would have
to be an early Western favorite.
Portland is another team that needs a center, but they also have an
aging backcourt. How many years are left on Drexler and Porter's
knees?
Why would Dallas draft another PG at #19 when they got Kidd at #2?
Some frontline help would make more sense (i.e., C or PF). With
Mashburn, Jackson, Kidd, and Rooks, that's a decent starting lineup and
only 1 big man away from contention.
The Knicks really need a decent scoring SF. Will this Monty Williams
fill this bill?
Mike
|
| 10.1905 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Mon May 23 1994 19:23 | 9 |
|
Chicago is likely going to lose Grant and Williams as free agents,
and Paxson and Cartwright to retirement. The great unknown for them
is whether Jordan will return for the 1994-5 season. Then again Jordan
finally won the title when the right other players were there.
Might the Bulls trade Kucoc(sp?) for a top 3 pick??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1906 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Mon May 23 1994 19:25 | 6 |
|
re: draft order. After the first 11 does the NBA follow by order of record
or does the champion get the last pick of the first round??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1907 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon May 23 1994 19:26 | 1 |
| by record, Phoenix picked last in '93.
|
| 10.1908 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Mon May 23 1994 20:25 | 2 |
| What would Detroit want with Kukoc?
|
| 10.1909 | the new Karnac of SPORTS | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon May 23 1994 22:28 | 71 |
| 10.1910 | free agents as of 7/1/94 | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon May 23 1994 22:37 | 51 |
| Unrestricted
-------------
Vincent Askew Keith Askins Thurl Bailey
Ro Blackman Randy Breuer Frank Brickowski
Jud Buechler Matt Bullard Michael Cage
Tony Campbell Antoinne Carr Bill Cartwright
Tom Chambers Marty Conlon Mark Eaton
James Edwards LeRon Ellis Duane Ferrell
Sleepy FLoyd Tellis Frank Kevin Gamble
Horace Grant Jack Haley Ron Harper
Rod Higgins Eddie Johnson Frank Johnson
Steve Kerr Fat Lever Marcus Liberty
Brad Lohaus Danny Manning Sam Mitchell
Pete Myers Larry Nance Johnny Newman
Robert Parish Ricky Pierce Kurt Rambis
Rumeal Robinson Tree Rollins Danny Schayes
Steve Scheffler Byron Scott Brian Shaw
Isiah Thomas Wayman Tisdale Kenny Walker
Bill Wennington Ennis Whatley Dominique Wilkins
Buck Williams Herb Williams Kenny Williams
Scott Williams David Wood Orlando Woolridge
Restricted
-------------
Alaa Abdelnaby Anthony Avent Tony Bennett
Walter Bond Kevin Brooks Dee Brown
Mitchell Butler Pete Chilcutt Anthony Cook
Chris Corchiani Lloyd Daniels Brian Davis
Sean Elliott Harold Ellis Pervis Ellison
Rick Fox Matt Geiger Snoop Grahm
Litterial Green Sean Green Jay Guidinger
Stanley Jackson Keith Jennings Reggie Jordan
Warren Kidd Chris King Anthony Mason
Gheorge Muresan Jimmy Oliver Charles Outlaw
Elliott Perry Bobby Phills Olden Polynice
Brent Price Mark Randall Bryon Russell
LaBradford Smith Reggie Smith Nick Van Exel
Matt Wenstron Trevor Wilson Randy White
Chris Whitney
Option Unrestricted
--------------------
Greg Anderson Chris Dudley Craig Ehlo
Dale Ellis Harvey Grant AC Green
Avery Johnson Chuck Person Detlef Schrempf
Option Restricted
-----------------
Terrell Brandon Dale Davis Mario Elie
Anfernee Hardaway Toni Kukoc Lionel Simmons
Clearance Weatherspoon Chris Webber
|
| 10.1911 | Cajun Wolves | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 24 1994 14:10 | 69 |
| Article: 13320
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.minnesota,clari.local.louisiana
Subject: Wolves Moving To New Orleans
Date: Mon, 23 May 94 19:00:08 PDT
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- The Minnesota Timberwolves are moving to New
Orleans five years after joining the NBA as an expansion team,
becoming the second pro franchise in 13 months to leave the state.
Club owners Harvey Ratner and Marv Wolfenson said Monday that a
group led by Top Rank of Louisiana will pay $152.5 million for the
team and move it to New Orleans for the 1994-95 season.
``This is a big blow to Minnesota and the city of Minneapolis,''
said Gov. Arne Carlson, who this month signed legislation approving
a public buyout of Target Center aimed at keeping the team in the
state.
The matter now goes before the NBA's franchise relocation
committee, which is expected to approve the transaction.
The Timberwolves' departure comes on the heels of last year's
move by the North Stars to Dallas after 26 NHL seasons in the Twin
Cities.
It's also the second time that the NBA has left Minnesota; the
Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles in 1960.
New Orleans, meanwhile, gets a second crack at the NBA. The Jazz
began play there in 1974 before moving to Utah in 1979.
New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial said the arrival of the NBA in his
city, which already has the NFL's Saints and a lucrative tourism
industry, is ``another sign of being a big-league city.''
``The New Orleans group was always just a backup,'' Wolfenson
said at a news conference. ``We were always waiting for someone to
come forward here to buy the team.
``People can believe what they want but we were willing to take
$88 million ... to keep the team here. You can't force someone to
buy a team.''
Several groups, including one led by former Minnesota insurance
executive Bill Sexton, expressed interest in buying the team. And
the announcement came only hours after former NBA great Magic
Johnson said he was trying to buy the team along with a group
including singers Prince and Janet Jackson.
``Marv Wolfenson and Harvey Ratner have received substantial
offers to purchase the team and keep it in Minnesota,'' said NBA
commissioner David Stern, who tried to help the Timberwolves find a
local buyer. ``Regrettably, they decided against accepting these
offers.''
But Wolfenson said no one ever put an offer in writing and that,
even in informal discussions, no one came close to paying the money
necessary to retire Target Center's debt.
Wolfenson said both the New Orleans group and the NBA were
insisting that ``negotiations be concluded now.''
Investors in Nashville, Tenn., and San Diego also had expressed
interest in buying and moving the Timberwolves but never came close
to offering the amount of money put up by the New Orleans group.
Earlier this month, the Minnesota Legislature thought it had
taken a major step toward keeping the team here when it narrowly
approved a $42 million public buyout of the arena.
But Wolfenson and Ratner owed $76 million on the arena, which
they opened in 1990 in time for the team's second season. They said
they were willing to put in $10 million of the difference but
weren't willing to eat the remaining $24 million.
``The Legislature did a fantastic job with a very tough bill,
even though the amount was low, to get it passed by just a few
votes,'' Wolfenson said. ``It would have been nicer if the building
had been valued at maybe $10 or $15 million more.''
In the inaugural season of 1989-90, the Timberwolves played in
the Metrodome and set an NBA attendance record by drawing 1,072,572
fans. Target Center opened the following season and the average
attendance, 19,011, exceeded capacity. The team continued to draw
well the next three years, averaging 17,888 fans last season
despite housing one of the NBA's weakest teams.
|
| 10.1912 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | 10+40+60=ByeBye | Tue May 24 1994 14:31 | 8 |
| It will be interesting to see if the league will approve Bob
Arum as an NBA owner. My guess is that if he coughs up enough cabbage
they can overlook certain "inconsistencies" in his past. And Heiser,
don't you know that NAZZ by virtue of being a close-minded parochial
Bostonian doesn't know anything about anything (including the NBA
draft)? So you must've made those old drafts up.
/Don
|
| 10.1913 | somebody better investigate soon | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 24 1994 14:34 | 7 |
| I think what should be investigated is the amount of money paid for the
TWolves. They aint worth this kinda money, and there's bound to be some
tomfoolery behind this.
Arum musta had some deal with Don King.
TTom
|
| 10.1915 | but then Lakers doesn't fit LA | WKRP::LEETCH | U.S. Messaging Practice, Cincinnati | Tue May 24 1994 15:13 | 9 |
| Maybe someone can get Utah and the future New Orleans franchises to exchange
nicknames so N.O. can get "Jazz" back.
I've never associated the word "Jazz" with the state of Utah and now, the word
"Timberwolves" doesn't exactly come to mind when thinking of New Orleans.
Utah Timberwolves and New Orleans Jazz, Yeah, that's the ticket...
Bruce
|
| 10.1916 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I got them GhostTown Blues | Tue May 24 1994 15:31 | 10 |
|
Keith O. on espn last night "It only seems fitting that Boxing Org. owns
a team in the NBA".
Speaking of Arum he was espn2 last night and actually had the gall to call
his shows clean and Don King a crook.......
hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa
mike
|
| 10.1917 | NBA is getting ridiculous | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249 | Tue May 24 1994 16:13 | 4 |
| How's about Magic Johnson, Latoya Jackson and %^&(PRINCE) as owners of a
NBA team ?
I'd take Don king over this trio any day of the week.
|
| 10.1918 | Utah and New Orleans should switch nicknames | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 24 1994 16:20 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1920 | Thomas Raptor VP | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 24 1994 17:03 | 7 |
| And meanwhile, the Princess hisself, your favorite and mine, Isiah Thomas
has been named some Vice President for the new Toronto Raptors.
As he said at thew press conference, his heart will always be part of the
Pistons but the rest of him is available for the right money.
TTom
|
| 10.1921 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 24 1994 17:06 | 5 |
| Speaking of Keith O. on ESPN, is he sporting a pony-tail, or was it just
a trick shadow that made it appear that way?
'Saw
|
| 10.1922 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Tue May 24 1994 17:12 | 5 |
| Isiah going to be a VP or a GM? Well, this explains why he retired
early. That job wouldn't be available in July.
I heard they won't be the New Orleans *****, they'll be the Louisiana
#####.... like the Louisiana Gators or the Louisiana Rhythm...
|
| 10.1923 | Louisiana Cajuns? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 24 1994 17:13 | 0 |
| 10.1924 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 24 1994 17:15 | 7 |
| > -< Louisiana Cajuns? >-
Nah, they'd avoid that in their attempt to be PC.
Louisiana Coon-Asses would be GREAT though....;^)
|
| 10.1925 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Tue May 24 1994 17:19 | 2 |
| Uh, I'm not sure how well a bunch of black players being known as Coon
anything's would go over....
|
| 10.1926 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 24 1994 17:25 | 16 |
| > Uh, I'm not sure how well a bunch of black players being known as Coon
> anything's would go over....
Not an expression about that. It's a Louisana expression for what they
call themselves, those folks from Louisiana (not transplants).
I've been told it's a bastardization of some Cajun french phrase, but
I've never gotten a better explanation....
I mean, I could see getting upset if it had something remotely to do with
that, but it doesn't.... I mean, it's more Louisiana that anything except
perhaps the Louisians Gumbos......8^)
|
| 10.1927 | Looziana Zydeco... | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Tue May 24 1994 17:28 | 2 |
| No, I know what you mean but still... that part of the country has
been known for some bass-ackward beliefs too...
|
| 10.1928 | a moment to spare | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue May 24 1994 17:31 | 7 |
|
Yabbut I've been there. I'd like to nominate The Lousyannah
Loonies as the team name!
;^)
|
| 10.1929 | Ragin Cajuns are already taken | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 24 1994 17:32 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1930 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Tue May 24 1994 17:33 | 1 |
| Howzabout Louisiana Blackened Redfish?
|
| 10.1931 | Picayunes | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 24 1994 17:35 | 0 |
| 10.1932 | or the Cayenne Peppers? THEY'RE HOT! | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 24 1994 17:35 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.1933 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue May 24 1994 17:38 | 4 |
| | Howzabout Louisiana Blackened Redfish?
Or da Reddened Blackfish...
|
| 10.1934 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Tue May 24 1994 17:46 | 2 |
| Might be Louisiana Knockouts with that ownership...
|
| 10.1935 | Leon Spinks as coach... | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue May 24 1994 17:47 | 3 |
| | Might be Louisiana Knockouts with that ownership...
'ouisiana Loose Toofs
|
| 10.1936 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 24 1994 17:51 | 4 |
| > <<< Note 10.1927 by HANNAH::ASHE "Let me see shake yo tailfeather..." >>>
> -< Looziana Zydeco... >-
Oh, I like that one. Didn't even think of that.... That gets my vote...
|
| 10.1937 | | CAMONE::WAY | Un-filtered Camels, Raw Beef, Coffee | Tue May 24 1994 17:54 | 13 |
| Just as an aside...
If you ever want to get a good picture of some Louisiana life and customs,
you might want to read the series of "Dave Robicheaux" novels, by
James Lee Burke. His protagonist, Dave Robicheaux is a Cajun who has
been a cop on the force in Nawlins, and then later a private detective.
Despite what some might see as campy subject matter (mysteries) Burke's
writing style is lush, and a pleasure to read.....
'Saw
|
| 10.1938 | love that low-cal, low-fat, low cholesterol stuff | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 24 1994 17:56 | 1 |
| ...or just watch Justin Wilson's cooking show.
|
| 10.1939 | | CAMONE::WAY | Bleaume | Tue May 24 1994 18:05 | 11 |
| >
> ...or just watch Justin Wilson's cooking show.
>
Yeah, whooo-dere, get some o' dat' Awn-Yawn, yessuh, I guar-awn-teeee.
But then the pound of butter and the fat and all that other stuff...8^)
Nothin like Tabasco though....
|
| 10.1940 | Justin's motto | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 24 1994 18:07 | 1 |
| fatty foods taste best!
|
| 10.1941 | | TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue May 24 1994 18:09 | 3 |
| Note 1940 snarfed by the prime snarfer - not by TCM, to break the jinx.
Coincidence - I THINK NOT.
|
| 10.1942 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Tue May 24 1994 18:11 | 4 |
| wrong topic, =Bob= :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1943 | not pre-meditated | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 24 1994 18:11 | 1 |
| No Bob, the jinx is still on because I didn't even realize it.
|
| 10.1944 | Hakeem is MVP | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Tue May 24 1994 18:19 | 38 |
| Article: 13328
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball
Subject: Olajuwon Named NBA's MVP
Date: Tue, 24 May 94 9:30:13 PDT
NEW YORK (AP) -- Houston center Hakeem Olajuwon, who led the
Rockets to the Midwest Division title and the best record in
franchise history, won the NBA's Most Valuable Player award
Tuesday.
Olajuwon, who averaged 27.3 points, 11.9 rebounds and 3.7 blocks
per game, received 66 first-place votes and 889 points from a
nationwide panel of sports writers and broadcasters.
San Antonio's David Robinson finished second with 24 first-place
votes and 730 points. Chicago's Scottie Pippen was third with seven
firsts and 390 points, followed by Orlando's Shaquille O'Neal and
New York's Patrick Ewing.
Olajuwon, who was runner-up to Charles Barkley in the MVP voting
last season, ranked third in the league in scoring, fourth in
rebounding and second in blocks. He was the only NBA player to rank
among the top five in all three categories.
Olajuwon, the only player named on all 101 ballots, shot .528
percent from the field -- 10th best in the NBA.
He led the Rockets to a 58-24 record, including a record-tying
15-game winning streak to open the season.
Earlier this month, Olajuwon was named the NBA's defensive
player of the year. He joins Michael Jordan as the only players to
win the MVP and defensive awards in the same season.
Olajuwon helped Houston's defense set franchise records for
fewest points allowed (96.8 per game) and field goal percentage by
opponents (.440).
He moved into third place on the NBA's career list for blocked
shots, raising his total to 2,741. He trails only Kareem
Abdul-Jabbar (3,189) and Mark Eaton (3,064).
Seventeen players received at least one vote for MVP, but only
the top five finishers got first-place votes.
The MVP receives the Maurice Podoloff Trophy, named for the
league's first commissioner.
|
| 10.1945 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I got them GhostTown Blues | Wed May 25 1994 12:59 | 14 |
|
THe pool is down to 3 guys, Walt's in the drivers' seat but IMJIMBO is
reaching for the wheel and Joe G. is in the back praying for the lottery.
Here's the scenerios:
Pacers and Utah win: Walt wins
NY and Utah and NY looses the finals: Walt wins
NY and Houston win: IMJIMBO wins
Pacers and Houston win: IMJIMBO wins
NY and Utah and NY wins the finals: IMJIMBO and Joe G. go to the lottery
for a tiebreaker as both chose 78 games total
mike
|
| 10.1946 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed May 25 1994 15:36 | 4 |
| Did Ewing and Olajawon meet in a Final 4 game??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1947 | | CSLALL::BRULE | Time for a couple of reality pills | Wed May 25 1994 17:27 | 1 |
| I believe Georgetown beat Hooston in Seattle
|
| 10.1948 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | I got them GhostTown Blues | Wed May 25 1994 17:34 | 5 |
|
yeah but Hakeem outplayed Patricia. Hoyas' supporting cast outplayed
phi slamma nowinna......
mike
|
| 10.1949 | a ring | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 25 1994 17:55 | 5 |
| Ewing beat Hakeem for his only NCAA title.
Both were in 3 final fours, which is no small task.
TTom
|
| 10.1950 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | AndNowTheEndIsNear... | Wed May 25 1994 19:24 | 6 |
| RE: Little Princess a VP.
I always thought he was a backstabbing liar. He'll be a natural
in management.
/Don
|
| 10.1951 | may be the Jazz? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Wed May 25 1994 19:45 | 25 |
| Article: 13343
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (AP)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.basketball,clari.local.utah
Subject: New Orleans May Buy Jazz Name
Date: Wed, 25 May 94 7:10:19 PDT
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- If New Orleans really wants the name Jazz
back for its new NBA franchise, it just might be for sale.
The Jazz kept the nickname when they moved from New Orleans to
Utah in the 1979-80 season. Now that the Minnesota franchise is
moving to Louisiana, it's looking for a new name and New Orleans
Mayor Marc Morial suggested Rhythm.
``They can take our Jazz, but they'll never take our Rhythm away
from us,'' he said.
Tim Howells, Utah Jazz general manager, said Tuesday he would be
open-minded about selling the team name.
``I'd be hesitant, but it would be worth considering,'' said
Howells.
He said the NBA would have a big say in the issue.
``The league has been very protective of tradition,'' he said.
``Just look at how hard they worked to keep the franchise in
Minnesota.''
And as far as the tradition of the Jazz name goes, ``We've had
it for 15 years in Salt Lake and they had it for five years in New
Orleans,'' he said.
|
| 10.1952 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Wed May 25 1994 20:31 | 2 |
| I guess it's better than a Special Assistant...
|
| 10.1953 | the year of the traveler | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Wed May 25 1994 21:33 | 10 |
| Mike,
Last year was the year of special treatment and the star system;
this year is the year of the flagrant travel - some of it reminds
me of the commercial with the cowboys playing bball in the barnyard
Some make fun of the black and white era (or the low altitude era) but
in those days all the rules were enforced and every foul meant going to
the line (1, 1-1, 2 shots) and along with traveling rules being
enforced there was no flagrant contact, at least on the ball handler.
|
| 10.1954 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Thu May 26 1994 03:44 | 4 |
| Houston wins game 2. 4th quarter was a marvelous duel between Malone
and Olajawon.
|
| 10.1955 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu May 26 1994 13:25 | 52 |
| From the Doctor...
Basketball's 20 Greatest Players of All Time (According to June issue of Inside
Sports) :
1 WILT CHAMBERLAIN - "The game's most dominant player and greatest scorer...
Wilt simply was the most dominant force ever to play basketball. His
achievmentss are stunning... led the league in assists one season, FG% 9 imes,
minutes played 8 times..."
2. Magic Johnson - "..versatility puts Magic ahead of Micheal Jordan on the
all-ime list...his combination of uniqueness, unselfish play, enthusiam for the
game, and winning spirit is unmatched."
3. Micheal Jordan - "Best package of scoring, defensive, and competitiveness
...Jordan defined the airborne image of the NBA that has influenced a
generation of players ..."
4. Kareem
5. Oscar Robinson
6. bill russell - "Most dominating defensive player ...was a one-man wrecking
crew on defense ..."
7. larry bird - "This Bird couldn't fly ...was the purist's basketball player
..."
8. George Mikan
9. JERRY WEST
10. Ricky Barry - Huh ?!
11. Julius Erving
12. Elgin baylor
13. Bob Pettit
14. Moses Malone
15. Isiah Thomas
16. HAKEEM OLAJUWON
17. Earl Monroe
18. Elvin Hayes
19. kevin mchale
20. bob cousy
Enjoy,
Dr. Midnight - Yet again vindicated (on some of the picks anyhow :-)
% Subject: Something to post in SPORTS ...
|
| 10.1956 | Doc sure is one funny guy | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Thu May 26 1994 14:27 | 10 |
| so don't tell me, Stan Fischler has a brother writing for Inside sports
...
leave it to doc to find this trash and to think I was humoring him the
other night by emphasizing the closeness of all the final games wilt
lost to russell.
Rick Barry deserves number 10 - where was Walton in that list? I like
magic ahead of jordan, flip wilt and russell and list starts to make
sense, Oscar is deserving...
|
| 10.1957 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | 10+40+60=ByeBye | Thu May 26 1994 15:12 | 8 |
| Statistics are for losers (not surprising DocQuixote would put
so much emphasis on them). Given the scenario that two teams are
playing and your life is at stake, and you have the exact same team
except for one position (starting center), and your choices are
Russell and Wilted, if you pick Wilted make sure you have your last
will and testament in order.
/Don
|
| 10.1958 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 26 1994 16:05 | 3 |
| The local sports radio station has been talking about the best 5
players ever. Both Frank Layden and Cotton Fitzsimmons said Russell >
Wilt.
|
| 10.1959 | Celtics have more than anyone on that list | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 26 1994 16:06 | 4 |
| 6. BILL RUSSELL
7. LARRY BIRD
19. KEVIN MCHALE
20. BOB COUSY
|
| 10.1960 | | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Twins ERA=Enormous Runs Allowed | Thu May 26 1994 16:16 | 4 |
| Just heard that Lenny Wilkens was named NBA Coach of the Year.
Spud
|
| 10.1961 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 26 1994 16:17 | 1 |
| Yeah, a slight surprise, but he deserved it as well.
|
| 10.1962 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu May 26 1994 17:06 | 2 |
| How can that be a surprise? It's based on the regular season.
|
| 10.1963 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 26 1994 17:07 | 1 |
| Jackson was just as deserving.
|
| 10.1964 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 26 1994 17:08 | 2 |
| BTW - that Inside Sports issue where they ranked the top 20 in the NBA
also contains similar lists for the NFL, NHL, and MLB.
|
| 10.1965 | Get Barry out of there!!! | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Thu May 26 1994 17:30 | 13 |
|
>Basketball's 20 Greatest Players of All Time (According to June issue of Inside
>Sports) :
Is anybody else shocked shocked by the absence of Hondo? Especially
considering Rick Barry on the list. Havlicek was a better overall
player than Barry!!!
JimH
|
| 10.1966 | Always a fun rathole | VAOP28::Rice | The Puck Stops Here | Thu May 26 1994 17:31 | 18 |
|
re: all-timers:
- Russell > Wilt > Kareem
Kareem was never the same class as Russ/Wilt. Wilt, for
those that never saw him, was the most dominant offensive
player EVER! And Russ, of course, was the most dominant
defensive player ever.
- Cousy at #20 is getting cheated. In the 60's he was
selected "Player of the Half-Century" over both Wilt
AND Russell. Wilt, in his auto-biography, goes to great
lengths to remind people that Cousy was the league's
biggest star at that time, not he or Russ.
josh
|
| 10.1967 | Three of the top 12 of all-time; embarrassing... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Thu May 26 1994 17:40 | 18 |
|
Hmmmm, so here's the 1969 breakdown:
Lakers Celtics
1 Wilt Chamberlain 6 Bill Russell
9 Jerry West
12 Elgin Baylor Notably unworthy:
? John Havlicek
? Sam Jones
This is where we get the song-and-dance about poor coaching, aging
superstars, and a lack of organizational cohesion...
glenn
|
| 10.1968 | | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249 | Thu May 26 1994 17:50 | 0 |
| 10.1969 | Ricky Berry | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249 | Thu May 26 1994 17:52 | 4 |
| Rick berry TM'ed that whiney sore loser I didn't even touch the guy look
when he got called for a foul. As well as anybody who has the guts to shoot
a freethrow like a girl in the NBA has to been remembered as a legend.
|
| 10.1970 | onward and upward? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Maybe too much Goody's Powder | Thu May 26 1994 17:52 | 5 |
| > <<< Note 10.1968 by OURGNG::RIGGEN "Jeff Riggen Sales Support 592-5249" >>>
New job there Jeff?
TTom
|
| 10.1971 | | PATE::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Thu May 26 1994 17:55 | 5 |
| 10.1972 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu May 26 1994 18:17 | 4 |
| He said he heard it a while back and sent mail to /Don, but just bought
the magazine article.. then again, he didn't put the Rockets banner up
in his office until this pasted weekend...
|
| 10.1973 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 26 1994 18:51 | 5 |
| > the magazine article.. then again, he didn't put the Rockets banner up
> in his office until this pasted weekend...
sounds like Doc. My Celtic banner has been in my office for the past 8
years.
|
| 10.1974 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | 10+40+60=ByeBye | Thu May 26 1994 20:21 | 7 |
| Speaking of Rick (The original WAH-WAH) Barry. I was at a game in
the Garden in either '73 or '74 when Paul Silas got on Ricky so bad causing
him to complain so much that the referee got tired of his act and tossed
him from the game. If he's better than Hondo than it's time to save some
carving space on Mount Rushmore for Calvin Coolidge.
/Don
|
| 10.1975 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri May 27 1994 18:25 | 6 |
| The Suns raised their prices yesterday. The 3 most expensive NBA
tickets are now:
1. New York - $39.66
2. Phoenix - $36.??
3. Chicago - $35.??
|
| 10.1976 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Yankees are an embarassment-GeorgeK | Fri May 27 1994 20:29 | 5 |
|
That's a rip. If you look at the $/cost of living, Phoenix finally
leads the NBA in something.
brews
|
| 10.1977 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Sun May 29 1994 01:11 | 4 |
| Utah wins game 3 at home. In the conference finals home teams are 6-0.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1978 | An all-time low in more ways than one | VAOP28::Rice | The Puck Stops Here | Mon May 30 1994 00:09 | 13 |
|
Pacers *dismantle* the Knicks in game 3. The Knicks set an all-
time record for low score in a playoff game, breaking the Pacers
record from lasted week. Bottom line on this series - if the Davis
boys step-up and play Oak and Mason even, Pacers win. If not it's
all Knicks.
This is the ugliest basketball I've ever seen in the playoffs. It
features a complete absense of great basketball skills on display.
Only Antonio Davis got me out of my seat even a little bit. The
rest is hacking, grabbing, hip checks and whistles. It's pitiful.
josh
|
| 10.1979 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Tue May 31 1994 05:22 | 10 |
| Pacers win game 4. Knicks were down by 14 in the 3rd and came back to
take a 2 point lead. From there on it was all Pacers. At least the
Knicks did more than pretned in this game. This looks like another one
of those home-team wins game type of series. Rockets will most likely
be well rested for the winner of this one, they should finish things up
in game 5 at home Tuesday night; beating Houston at home will be very
tough.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1980 | Quick Thoughts On Top 20 | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue May 31 1994 20:00 | 13 |
| re: top 20
Havlicek's absence is certainly conspicuous. I loved Earl
Monroe, but I'm not sure about that one! Was he even better
than Clyde (Walt Frazier)? I guess he doesn't deserve #10,
but Barry was a good ballplayer! His second year in the NBA,
he averaged something like 36 a game, then he jumped to the ABA.
I wonder also about Gervin, Archibald, and although longevity
should count (I suppose) - Connie Hawkins.
Well, I guess no one is going to be satisfied!
Tony
|
| 10.1981 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 03:45 | 9 |
| Rockets lead by 20 or so most of the game. Jazz come within 8 with time
left in the 4th. Rockets hold on for the win. Houston goes to the NBA
Finals with a 4-1 series win over Utah.
Knicks-Pacers game 5 is Wednesday, game 6 is Friday, game 7 if
necessary is Sunday.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1982 | Crown the Rockets | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 01 1994 14:50 | 1 |
| Houston-Phoenix series served as NBA championships this year.
|
| 10.1983 | re Inside Sports and ex knicks | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:06 | 2 |
| from the newyorkers standpoint I would have thought that Dave
DeBuschere is the glaring omission.
|
| 10.1984 | Does Robert Horry double as the Fresh Prince? | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:10 | 11 |
|
well it's all over except the t-shirt buying. Congrats to IMJIMBO who
should stick to basketball which he claims to know nothing about and
give up football predictions. The Rockets win gives him 26 points to
Walt's 24 and Joe G.'s 18. Best Walt can finish with is 32, Joe 36
and Jimbo would finish with 44 if the pugulists from NY win it all.
Any doubt that Hakeem is the premier player in the game or that
Stockton is living on his rep?
mike
|
| 10.1985 | at least this would work cap-wise | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:17 | 5 |
| mike,
Yes, I had the same thought on stockton slipping. Perhaps Utah
would take a guard with skads of potential even up for john.
Sherman Douglas.
|
| 10.1986 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:17 | 6 |
| Mike I don't claim to know nothing about basketball just boring
pro hoops! I guess a trip to Siger's is in order Mikey........
Looking forward to UCONN vs Duke November 29th!!!!!!!!
Jimbo
|
| 10.1987 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:22 | 5 |
|
> Mike I don't claim to know nothing about basketball just boring
> pro hoops! I guess a trip to Siger's is in order Mikey........
next time they have a sidewalk sale! ;^)
|
| 10.1988 | no complaints here | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:26 | 8 |
| re: Debuscherre
nope. Great player but not top 20 all time. He was the missing piece
to the puzzle; 1970-73 Knicks had great players, but above all they
made up a great team.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1989 | fyi | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:27 | 4 |
| folks the Rockets still have to play and win the next round.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1990 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | AndNowTheEndIsNear... | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:32 | 10 |
| 10.1991 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:35 | 7 |
|
geez Craze, are all NY fans so touchy. Only one person crowned the Rockets.
I was simply stating that my contest was all over. While I have no doubt that
the ROCKETS will crush the Knicks or Pacers, I do doubt that the Refs and
Stern will let them crush the Knicks.......
mike
|
| 10.1992 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Wed Jun 01 1994 16:56 | 5 |
| Jimbo won? Aw man... do I hear that in the 1st half of the twinbill
or the 2nd? haha..
Hey Mike, what's going on with that HR derby contest?
|
| 10.1993 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 01 1994 17:07 | 6 |
| > Houston-Phoenix series served as NBA championships this year.
Certainly looks like that so far. Only Phoenix made the Rockets break
a sweat. One thing in the Rockets favor is that nobody left has the
offensive firepower that the Suns have: good for their 4th quarter
lapses.
|
| 10.1994 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 17:16 | 6 |
|
I'll have to check Walt but it's going to kill me cause I did have
Gallaraga, Sierra and Chilly Davis before I started reading a
rotiserre book..........
mike
|
| 10.1996 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 18:02 | 6 |
|
same as the Bulls will keep on hearing about their second and third
championships "if only Bird and Magic were still around."
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.1998 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Big Brown+lots of Kokanee | Wed Jun 01 1994 18:11 | 4 |
| Didn't the Bulls beat the lakers for their 2nd champeenchip? Magic
was part of that!
Tim
|
| 10.1999 | Pre-snarf
| OURGNG::RIGGEN | Alpha chips and cheeseburgers | Wed Jun 01 1994 18:12 | 0 |
| 10.2000 | Snarf | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Alpha chips and cheeseburgers | Wed Jun 01 1994 18:12 | 0 |
| 10.2001 | this year's champs will be honored anyway | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 01 1994 18:15 | 2 |
| A minority might place an asterisk on this year's champion, but 5 years
from now, nobody will care.
|
| 10.2002 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 18:21 | 7 |
| re: .1998
Bulls beat the Lakers, Portland, Phoenix - in that order for their 3
chamionships.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2004 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 19:16 | 6 |
| and if it came to pass it would still be oh so sweet to be able to say
NY Knicks, 1994 NBA Champions.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2005 | slightly corrected version | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 19:28 | 8 |
|
and if it came to pass it would still be oh so sweet to be able to say
NY Knicks, 1994 NBA Referee's Champions.
mike
|
| 10.2006 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | AndNowTheEndIsNear... | Wed Jun 01 1994 19:39 | 7 |
| Don't be shocked if/when the Knickerbockers win you don't start
hearing the word dynasty mentioned again and again. Those slickly
produced videos have more movement and action than the actual games
they're promoting, unlike the NHL where the scriptwriters have much
more immagination.
/Don
|
| 10.2007 | NY Knicks, 1994 NBA Champions will sound just fine | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 19:52 | 5 |
| I hope we don't hear the words dynasty. The NY Knicks are not a
real good candidate for that.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2008 | 1994 NY Knicks Hugh Hollin's Champions | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 19:56 | 0 |
| 10.2009 | why Houston will win it | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:06 | 2 |
| The Champs, as far back as I can remember, always have an excellent
balance of defense and offense.
|
| 10.2010 | Rockets will be favored, whoever they play (home court) | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:22 | 12 |
| re: MikeyC
if that gives you solace and comfort, fine with me.
but the records will still read
1994 NBA Champions: NY Knicks
and nothing else. (that is assuming they do win).
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2011 | Hakeem is the best center out there | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:25 | 6 |
| Even without HCA, the Rockets are the better team.
The stat comparing Hakeem with the other premier centers is also very
telling. Everyone but Ewing hits for at least 6 points below their
average vs. the Dream. Ewing hits for at least 12 points below his
average.
|
| 10.2012 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:33 | 7 |
| re: .2011
agreed. but HCA should be the icing on the cake - game 7 (if needed)
would be in Houston.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2014 | totally disgusted with them | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:42 | 15 |
|
I wish it was that easy Craze. I will have no solace if the Knicks win it
all. I can't stand Riley and I can't stand their style of play. It isn't
even close to real basketball as I learnt the game and if they were any
other team the league wouldn't allow them to get away with the Bullshit
that they get away with. I can't imagine anything worst than a bunch
of cheapshot artists as the champs especially with two-face Riley at the
helm.
The Mchale/Rambis incident was cheap and uncalled for but it was one play
in one game not 48 minutes of the crap.
all I can say is GO PACERS!!!!!!!!!!
mike
|
| 10.2015 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:43 | 3 |
| Well, whoever wins...one thing is for sure. It will be a team that
hasn't ever won the championship, or a team who hasn't won it in a hail
of a long time.
|
| 10.2016 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:47 | 8 |
| re: .2014
MikeC: Where do you place the Pistons that won those 2 titles with, shall
we say, less than stellar behavior?? The NBA has let that kind of
stuff go on before.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2018 | always been kind of an ewing man, myself | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:53 | 10 |
| knicks play houston what, twice a year and you're throwing E vs O stats
out? The knicks will be able to play hakeem straight up which very few
teams can.
rockets right now are relying quite a bit on sam cassell and how he
stands up to the ny pounding and pressure is a large if. Of course
houston is better than indy and if knicks need the hca and ALL it
entails to beat the pacers they are in trouble with houston.
I think seattle and phoenix may have been even tougher for the knicks.
|
| 10.2019 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:54 | 12 |
|
The Pistons played hard defense and had Lambieer floppin' but they didn't
clutch and grap like the Knicks do and they didn't slow the game down to
a crawl to coverup their offensive inefficencies. Games were still between
95-105 not 80-85. Everybody on the Knicks' flops and everybody on the
Knicks takes a cheapshot except maybe Oakley. The Pistons only had Lambieer
and Isiah as cheapshots artists. The Worm played good defense back then
and wasn't as cheap as he is now. Dumars has more class in one hand than
the entire Knicks' club save for Oakley. The Pistons imo never played
as much zone defense as the Knicks either........
mike
|
| 10.2020 | Are we talking about the same Knicks team???? | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:56 | 8 |
| re: .2019
Interesting that you single out Oakley - the player who led the league
in flagrant fouls this year. As far as I know no one has accused Ewing
of being a cheapshot artist.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2021 | Knicks: Then and Now/Other Ramblings | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Wed Jun 01 1994 20:58 | 45 |
| On the 70's Knicks team.
What a beautiful team that was! It had to be one of the finest
TEAMS (as in smart, balanced team basketball) ever. Willis Reed,
Dave Debuscherre, Dollar Bill Bradley, Clyde Frazier, and I believe
Dick Barnett (as well as Phil Jackson, Mike Riordin and later on
Earl Monroe and Jerry Lucas). I was a Bucks fan and I remember
the Knicks on offense would have Willis Reed pull Jabbar to the
perimeter. The Bucks had no power forward (never really did except
for David Meyers who quit for religious reasons) and with Jabbar
by the perimeter guarding Reed, Debuscherre would just EAT the
Bucks alive with his offensive rebounding. By the way, the Knicks
parted with Walt Bellamy for Debuscherre. I wouldn't put Debuscherre
in the top twenty, but what a fine player he was.
Speaking of today's Knicks and the style of play so paramount in the
league today, but most advanced by the Knicks...this is absolutely
disgusting. This is not basketball. But, I have to tip my hat to
Riley. I suppose he is doing what he can. This brings to mind a
recent Sports Reporters (the ESPN Sunday morning show) I saw. Bob
Ryan whom I love on basketball said the dumbest thing I ever heard
him say. He pretty much claimed that Riley would have resorted to
the same style of play if he had the same Laker team he had. Not
a chance, not with Magic's fast break ability and Worthy on the wing.
Finally, as to top players...I think I prefer Magic to them all, but
I say that because I feel he involved the team better than Jordan
ever did. I hated the Lakers and always rooted against them, but
I must admit, what a team. What a fast breaking team. Was or will
there ever be anyone like them? I'd put Jordan second and Bird
third, but I kind of feel like for a couple years there, Bird was
just awesome - maybe even the best. I remember when he used to make
three pointers where he was completely off balance. Being a Buck's
fan, I saw enough of his daggers to last a lifetime. One of my
favorite things to see though was when the Bucks swept the Celtics
(and that was their front line in their prime).
One thing about Magic...I remember he had a rap for awhile for not
making the clutch shot now and then. But, then he made that baby
hook against the Celtics and he also developed a better outside
shot. He really took his game up another notch.
Oh well...enough rambling.
Tony
|
| 10.2022 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:02 | 5 |
| I thought at one time the Celtics (1960's) had a fearsome fast break.
Anyone??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2023 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:02 | 10 |
|
a hard foul to keep a player from a layup and cheapshot out in the middle
of the court are two different things. Patricia will get as cheap as anyone
given the chance. The flagrant is called mostly on guys stoping breakaway
layups and my assumption is that this where Oakley picked up the majority
of his flagrants. Also the reason I point out Oakley is because he takes
what he gives. The rest of the bums cry bloody murder or put up their
fist when someone dares to give it right back to them........
mike
|
| 10.2024 | Where's Rick Mahorn?!! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:05 | 7 |
| re: .2019
Hey Mike!,
I will assume you just happened to forget about Rick Mahorn!
That guy was an animal so far as inflicting serious damage
is concerned.
|
| 10.2025 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:06 | 5 |
|
yeah Tony you're right I did forget him. So add one more to cheapshots list.
It's still like 3 vs 10..............
mike
|
| 10.2026 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:33 | 6 |
| > knicks play houston what, twice a year and you're throwing E vs O stats
> out? The knicks will be able to play hakeem straight up which very few
> teams can.
2 games per year for the last 10 years and Hakeem doubles Ewing's
output (only 13 ppg vs. Hakeem).
|
| 10.2027 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:36 | 5 |
| > fan, I saw enough of his daggers to last a lifetime. One of my
> favorite things to see though was when the Bucks swept the Celtics
> (and that was their front line in their prime).
BILL FITCH IS TO BLAM!!!
|
| 10.2028 | My top 20 | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 01 1994 21:52 | 17 |
| The Celtics of the 60's were a great fastbreaking team led by Cousy,the
Jones and Havlicek. Russell threw an excellent outlet pass.
My top 20 FWIW-very quickly:
1-10 (Easy) 11-20(tough)
Jordan Barry
Magic Dr J
Russell Moses
Bird Hayes
Kareem Cousy
Robertson Mikan
West Pettit
Wilt Isiaah
Baylor Thurmond
Havlicek Pick among DJ,Parrish,McHale,Frazier,Willis,Unseld and
somebody I left out.
|
| 10.2029 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu Jun 02 1994 14:11 | 12 |
| Talent wise...
Ewing over Edwards
Oakley even with Laimbeer
Rodman over Smith
Thomas over Harper
Dumars over Starks
VJ over Hubert Davis or Anthony
Salley even with Mason...
The Pistons made hard fouls, and played good team defense. But they
also had a bench that could score.
|
| 10.2030 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Jun 02 1994 15:18 | 27 |
| I believe the point of the original comparison with the Pistons was in
regard to the cheap shots and clutching and grabbing. No question that
the Pistons had a better offense than the Knicks, but I think they
were just as bad, if not worse, than the current Knicks when it comes
to the dirty stuff.
Re.
>My top 20 FWIW-very quickly:
> 1-10 (Easy) 11-20(tough)
> Jordan Barry
> Magic Dr J
> Russell Moses
> Bird Hayes
> Kareem Cousy
> Robertson Mikan
> West Pettit
> Wilt Isiaah
> Baylor Thurmond
> Havlicek Pick among DJ,Parrish,McHale,Frazier,Willis,Unseld and
> somebody I left out.
Gotta have Hakeem in there. After Kareem, Russ, and Wilt, he's right
there with Moses. Parish isn't even close to top 20 material.
Ken
|
| 10.2031 | more on top 20 | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Thu Jun 02 1994 16:04 | 8 |
| re 10.2030
> Parish isn't even close....
I think he's being a bit kind to DJ as well... great players, but...
KB
|
| 10.2032 | Celts/Bucks and Hakeem | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Thu Jun 02 1994 16:13 | 13 |
| Hi Mike,
Well, I don't know if it was Fitch's fault, but if you just
go by counting the W's and the L's, you'll do just fine if
you preferred the Celtics to the Bucks. By the way, had
Boston beaten the Bucks, it would have been potentially really
nice to have witnessed the fo' fo' fo' Sixers against the
Celts. (Malone was wrong with the Bucks taking one game, the
Sixers went on to sweep the Lakers.)
I agree about Hakeem. He's gotta be in there.
Tony
|
| 10.2033 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Thu Jun 02 1994 16:25 | 3 |
| wasn't bird injured during that series and missed one game entirely.
bucks had a good team with montcrief and pierce
|
| 10.2034 | Early 80's Bucks | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Thu Jun 02 1994 17:03 | 15 |
| re -1
I think Bird may have missed one game. Pierce was not on the
Bucks team that year. That team had Bob Lanier, Marques Johnson,
Sidney Moncrief, Quinn Buckner, and Junior Bridgeman. For the life
of me, I can't remember the power forward, but as I mentioned
earlier, they never ever had much at PF anyway (save David Meyers
for a couple of years).
I forget how the Bucks got Ricky Pierce. I think the trade was
Marques Johnson and Junior Bridgeman to the Clips for Terry
Cummings, Jay Humphries, and Craig Hodges. I wonder if they parted
with Hodges for Pierce, but can't remember.
Tony
|
| 10.2035 | Hakeem belongs | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Jun 02 1994 17:35 | 6 |
| re: .2028
I did it very quickly and after thinking about it last night,realize
Hakeem should be there instead of Thurmond. Like I said,the first 10
are simple,the next 5 or 6 pretty easy,but then it gets real tough.
Were there any obvious omissions?
|
| 10.2036 | and no I'm not making this up | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 02 1994 18:06 | 2 |
| The Little Princess is in town to visit with Buddy to learn something
about sports management styles.
|
| 10.2037 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | TCM - World's Greatest Sandbagger | Thu Jun 02 1994 20:34 | 7 |
|
>> Hakeem should be there instead of Thurmond. Like I said,the first 10
>> are simple,the next 5 or 6 pretty easy,but then it gets real tough.
>> Were there any obvious omissions?
I'd think that Bob Lanier deserves to at least be in with the "pick
among".
|
| 10.2038 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu Jun 02 1994 22:41 | 31 |
| From Doc...
re Slasher,
Just remember that even Larry Bird said WILT was THE Greatest of All Times.
Repeat : ven one of your own said that WILT > WUSSell ...
leave it to doc to find this trash and to think I was humoring him the
other night by emphasizing the closeness of all the final games wilt
lost to russell.
Trash Kemosabe ? Rather simular to the Dead Sea Scrolls, where lost knowledge is
bringing truth to light, dispelling half-truths and falsehoods from the Celtic
Jihad.
And Brother Breen, you humored me not - you spoke truths that most C-minus'
Fanhood would not dare touch. There is hope for you ...
Rick Barry deserves number 10 - where was Walton in that list? I like
magic ahead of jordan, flip wilt and russell and list starts to make
sense, Oscar is deserving...
Heh ... Rick Barry was a great player and a greater A$$H*LE.
Johnny Most said only one coherent thing in his life, and that was when he asked
Barry,
"Rick, if you had to do all over again, would you still fall in love
with yourself ?" Not in my Top 10 ....
Walton never stayed healthy, IMO. Moreover, he was overhyped by the media. A
good maybe a very good player, but great ? Only in college.
|
| 10.2039 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 02 1994 23:05 | 1 |
| Did Larry really say that or is he making it up?
|
| 10.2040 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Fri Jun 03 1994 11:44 | 7 |
| I'm not surprised that Doc, a member of the generation that idolizes
Madonna, M.C. Hammer and Garth Brooks, preferring style over substance,
would think Chambermaid greater than RUSSELL, not surprised at all.
And regarding Larry Bird's comments, Larry was a great basketball
player, not a great intellect.
/Don
|
| 10.2041 | Lanier | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri Jun 03 1994 12:48 | 9 |
| I also thought the Big Cat Bob Lanier at least deserved mention.
Fine, fine basketball player that never quite had enough of a
supporting cast. Speaking of Bob Lanier...I have a friend in
Milwaukee who used to have his own cleaning business. He used
to clean Lanier's house.
He's seen his shoes up close. They're HUGE!!!!
Tony
|
| 10.2042 | Lanier, Dean, and Feinstein | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Fri Jun 03 1994 13:10 | 17 |
| > He's seen his [Bob Lanier's] shoes up close.
Hey, even I've seen Big Bob's shoes up close. Basketball HoF,
Springfield, MA. BTW, Dean Smith has already been inducted and has a
nicely sized display. The usual stuff that gets ya in: Title(s), Class,
OlympicGold, mega W's, etc, etc, etc.
Hate to admit this but that GeekyDookNurd John Feinstein nailed one
this morning while doing oral journalism on NPR's Morning Edition.
Asked how come NBA ratings have dipped to 30% Feinstein sez "I guess
it's because 70% of the people haven't figured out how bad the NBA is
yet".
Haw haw!!! (True, too.)
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.2043 | I just couldn't stay out of this debate - my Top 25 | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Fri Jun 03 1994 13:38 | 30 |
|
1. Magic Johnson
2. Bill Russell
3. Michael Jordan
4. Oscar Robinson
5. Julius Erving
6. Larry Bird
7. Jerry West
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. David Robinson
11. George Mikan
12. Moses Malone
13. Bob Cousy
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. Connie Hawkins
17. Kevin McHale
18. John Havlicek
19. Bill Walton
20. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
21. Nate Thurmond
22. Bob Lanier
23. Charles Barkley
24. Dave Cowens
25. Walt Frazier
NAZZ
|
| 10.2044 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Fri Jun 03 1994 13:51 | 8 |
| 10.2045 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Fri Jun 03 1994 14:12 | 5 |
| Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at 20?! Snap out of it, Nazz. Cap is top 5
material. Walton at 19 is a disgrace. You should be required to
play more than 2 full seasons to be considered great.
Ken
|
| 10.2046 | Abdul-Jabbar was one dimensional | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Fri Jun 03 1994 15:47 | 8 |
| Kareem is lucky he made my top 20 at all. For a guy that played as
long as he did, his rebounding stats are pitiful, his defense was
always suspect, and it took the presence of the great Magic Johnson
to all him to get more than one ring. Kareem will go down in history
as the biggest man ever to ride the coattails of a superstar to four
championships.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2047 | Observations on Top 25 | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri Jun 03 1994 16:15 | 14 |
| Nazz,
My thoughts on your top 25...
Another person who places Magic above Jordan!!!
Another person who gave such an honor to Hawkins. (What did
we miss with his temporary banishment?)
Erving above Bird??? I don't know...can't see that.
A little too center-laden for me.
Tony
|
| 10.2049 | impressive | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Fri Jun 03 1994 16:53 | 1 |
| Nazz's list has 2 Suns on it!
|
| 10.2050 | Go hoyas. :-) | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | What a terrible year 1918 | Fri Jun 03 1994 20:23 | 30 |
|
1. Larry Bird
2. Michael Jordan
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Julius Erving
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Jerry West
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Bob Cousy
10. Kareem Abul Jabbar
11. Bill Walton
12. Moses Malone
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. Alonzo Mourning :-)
17. Kevin McHale
18. John Havlicek
19. Patrick Ewing :-)
20. David Robinson
21. Robert Parish
22. Pistol Pete
23. Tiny Archibald
24. Charles Barkley
25. Walt Frazier
NAZZ
|
| 10.2051 | GO CELTICS! | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Fri Jun 03 1994 21:29 | 25 |
| 1. Larry Bird *****
2. Michael Jordan
3. Bill Russell *****
4. Magic Johnson
5. Julius Erving
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Jerry West
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Bob Cousy *****
10. Kareem Abul Jabbar
11. Bill Walton *****
12. Moses Malone
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. Alonzo Mourning
17. Kevin McHale *****
18. John Havlicek *****
19. Patrick Ewing
20. David Robinson
21. Robert Parish *****
22. Pistol Pete *****
23. Tiny Archibald *****
24. Charles Barkley
25. Walt Frazier
|
| 10.2052 | I liked your picks Mike but made some changes | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Fri Jun 03 1994 22:01 | 25 |
| 1. Bill Russell *****
2. Magic Johnson
3. Michael Jordan
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Jerry West
6. Bob Cousy *****
7. Bill Walton *****
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Larry Bird *****
11. Kareem Abul Jabbar
12. Moses Malone
13. Hakeem Olajuwan
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Bob Pettit
16. Julius Erving
17. Kevin McHale *****
18. John Havlicek *****
19. Patrick Ewing
20. David Robinson
Dave Debuschere
Wes Unseld
George Mikan
24. Charles Barkley
Sam Jones ******
|
| 10.2053 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Mon Jun 06 1994 03:54 | 13 |
| fascinating the different responses from 2 coaches:
Pat Quinn of the Canucks bitching about the call that automatically
ejected Bure from game 3. Especially since the official basically had
no choice but to call the 5 minute major and the automatic game
misconduct.
Larry Brown of the Pacers not bitching about the flagrant foul call on
Miller at the ned of game 7 even though there was definite room to
dispute that call.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2054 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Mon Jun 06 1994 12:19 | 31 |
|
I really have a tough time with placing Magic over Michael. Sure Magic
has 5 rings to 3 but Magic had a better cast, didn't have the offensive
skills of Michael and defensively it's such a miss match it isn't even
worth talking about. If it wasn't for 1969, I'd rate Michael over Russ
but finishing 4th in the league, coaching, playing and then beating the
LOADED Lakers just proves the Bill Russell was the GREATEST EVER!!!!!!!!
Russ
Mike
Larry/Magic tie
The Big O
Baylor
Cousy
Chambermaid
West
Erving
Hakeem
Jabbar
Isiah
Hondo
Unseld
Hayes
Moses
Frazier
Cowens
Cornbread
I've only included players that I've seen.......
mike
|
| 10.2055 | Houston in 6 | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Mon Jun 06 1994 17:42 | 1 |
| I'll be watching the finals only because I'm an NBA hoops junkie.
|
| 10.2056 | My Top Twenty | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Mon Jun 06 1994 20:00 | 99 |
| I ordered by position and then combined for a top 20.
Centers
-------
Russel
Wilt
Jabbar
Olajuwon
Malone
Lanier
Guards
------
Magic
Jordan
Robertson
West
Maravich
Cousy
Tiny Archibald
David Thompson
Forwards
--------
Bird
Baylor
Havlicek
Barry
Erving
Petit
Connie Hawkins
1. Magic
1. Jordan
Jordan unstoppable offensively. Great defensive player. Magic
best ever PG who involved an offense as good or better than any-
body ever. Could even play center. A 6'9" point guard!
3. Bird
Arguably the greatest passer and shooter ever. Also a fine
rebounder. Mentally as good as anybody.
4. Russel
4. Wilt
The consummate winner, but how can anyone deny Wilts' stats which
blow anything away? I've seen the arguing...I'll just place them
side by side.
6. Robertson
6. Jabbar
Some here don't like him. He scored at will. Had his share of
rebounds. He dominated at his position pure and simple for many
years. For at least 10 years, had the most automatic field goal
in the game. Even Lakers at half court typically resorted to the
sky hook when he was ancient. Check out his rebound stats in his
prime. Robertson - what's to say? He could do it all.
8. Baylor
8. West
10. Havlicek
Always guarded the opposing team's best player (unless a center)
and still always an offensive force for 48 minutes. I have a friend
who insists Hondo was the greatest player to ever play the game
(and he's a basketball fanatic!).
11. Barry
11. Pistol Pete
Barry perhaps second greatest shooter of all time and an excellent
passer. He's getting a rap here. Maybe a poor sport, but we're
talking about how good a basketball player he was!
Maravich was a magician pure and simple. Factor in his collegiate
career and the guy was absolutely unconscious. This was a great
player wallowing on bad teams.
13. Olajuwon
Wouldn't doubt if he cracks the top 10 handily before his career
is over.
14. Erving
Enuf said.
15. Cousy
Don't know enough about him, but I am told he revolutionized the game
(so why did I leave Mikan out?!).
16. Malone
The consummate blue collar player. What a worker!
17. Bob Petit
Don't know much about him, but he was a fine player.
18. Tiny Archibald
Scoring, passing playmaking phenom. Owned the points per game
several years *as a point guard*.
19. Bob Lanier
I just thought he was a fine, fine center. Perhaps the softest
shooting touch of any center ever. Just an excellent smart player.
20. David Thompson
20. Connie Hawkins
Thompson dominated for awhile till drugs felled him. The Hawk was
a maligned player blackballed for many years from the NBA. Perhaps
a sentimental selection.
Honorable Mention:
Walt Frazier, Barkley, Maurice Cheeks, JoJo White, Elvin Hayes, David
Robinson, Earl Monroe, Thurmond, Andrew Toney (yeah not too many years,
but when healthy...unbelievable!), Iceman, Bob McAdoo, Isaiah Thomas.
Tony
|
| 10.2057 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 06 1994 21:05 | 8 |
| >25. Walt Frazier
I've always thought Frazier was the most complete, perfect point guard
of all time. #25 ?
And I agree about Bill Walton. Not only should he NOT be in any professional
top-anything, he should never be voted into the HoF as an NBA player.
|
| 10.2058 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Mon Jun 06 1994 21:20 | 8 |
|
Bill Walton was probably the best to ever play college basketball.
NBA? nah; he had 2.5 good seasons and in 1 of those he was not
a starter.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2059 | Russell and Walton were only two dominant centers | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Mon Jun 06 1994 21:46 | 10 |
| The problem with Walton, and this is shared by many in the game (Bob
Ryan for what it worth seems to agree) is that he is indeed in the top
3 or 4 all time regardless of the fact that he was playing for his
college freshman team to the time of his injury.
For example, if you had walton in his prime and jordan,bird,magic etc I
would give you 5 picks, take walton and know I'd win. Not that I
wouldn't have a shabby team with 6-10.
The only other player in that category is the 50s and 60s russell.
|
| 10.2060 | If he's out it's not because he didn't prove himself... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Mon Jun 06 1994 22:05 | 12 |
|
The level of play of the 1976-77 and pre-Walton injury 1977-78 Portland
Trailblazers is very close to the best in NBA history. You didn't have
any Celtics/Lakers/76ers-type supporting cast there, either. It's
similar to the Sandy Koufax situation. Was Koufax one of the greatest
pitchers ever or wasn't he? Maybe you've got to knock him down a few
rungs behind some guys who did it longer on a pure career-value basis,
but you don't do so because he somehow didn't indisputably prove
his greatness in the short time he was healthy. Same with Walton...
glenn
|
| 10.2061 | good clean fun | VAOP28::Rice | The Puck Stops Here | Mon Jun 06 1994 23:43 | 42 |
| This is harder than I thought. I disallowed anyone still
playing, and couldn't get past 20. IMO no one today has
proven they belong on this list.
1. Bill Russell *****
- if winning is important, there's no question. greatest
defensive mental game ever.
2. Magic Johnson
- could play all 5 positions better than anyone.
3. Larry Bird *****
- greatest offensive mental game ever.
4. Michael Jordan
- best all-around skills, and a winner.
5. Oscar Robertson
5. Bob Cousy *****
- i can't separate these two. they wrote the book on backcourt
play.
7. Jerry West
- before Bird, the closest thing.
8. Wilt Chamberlain
- physically still the king.
9. Elgin Baylor
- wrote the book on PF.
10. John Havlicek *****
- i'd like to move him up because he always seemed to win and
you were never sure quite how he did it. fiercest competitor
ever.
11. Bob Pettit
12. Julius Erving
13. Pistol Pete *****
14. Tiny Archibald *****
15. Connie Hawkins
16. Walt Frazier
17. Bill Walton *****
18. Kareem Abul Jabbar
19. Moses Malone
20. Kevin McHale *****
11 thru 20 were merely great players. The top ten were super-human.
josh
|
| 10.2062 | | USCTR1::KING | Cemeteries = Parks with nice stones... | Tue Jun 07 1994 12:36 | 38 |
| My turn... in no particular order....
Shooting Guards
M Jordan
O Robinson Could be PG too
P Marivich
J West
W Frazier
Point Guards
T Archibald Could be SG too
B Cousy
M Johhson
Small Forward
L Bird
J Irving
B Pettit
E Hayes
Power Forward
E Baylor
K Mchale
C Barkley
Centers
B Russell
W Chamberlain
G Mikan
M Malone
K Jabbar
Coach and GM
Red Auerbach
REK
|
| 10.2063 | | RAMPAL::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Tue Jun 07 1994 12:54 | 15 |
|
>And I agree about Bill Walton. Not only should he NOT be in any professional
>top-anything, he should never be voted into the HoF as an NBA player.
I agree with the NBA Top-20 isssue, he just didn't play enough to
warrant consideration.
But as for the Hall of Fame. Its not the "NBA HOF" , its the
"Basketball HOF". Taking his NCAA accomplishments with what he did in
the NBA while he was healthy, he is a no-brainer member of the HOF!!!!
JimH
|
| 10.2064 | | CAMONE::WAY | Alas poor baldric | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:00 | 6 |
| Walt Frazier does color on the Knicks games on WFAN I think.
Why do they call him Walt "Clyde" Frazier?
Excuse my ingorance if this is a really dumb question.....
|
| 10.2065 | | MKFSA::LONG | PFC Way, Molly Pitcher Medal recipient | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:10 | 6 |
| >> Why do they call him Walt "Clyde" Frazier?
I thought it was "The Glide" not "Clyde".
billl
|
| 10.2066 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | TCM - World's Greatest Sandbagger | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:21 | 4 |
|
It *was* Clyde. If I remember correctly it was because it was
about that time the movie 'Bonnie And Clyde' came out and Walt
was known as a snazzy dresser like Warren Beatty in the movie.
|
| 10.2067 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:24 | 25 |
| Re.
> The level of play of the 1976-77 and pre-Walton injury 1977-78 Portland
> Trailblazers is very close to the best in NBA history. You didn't have
> any Celtics/Lakers/76ers-type supporting cast there, either. It's
> similar to the Sandy Koufax situation. Was Koufax one of the greatest
> pitchers ever or wasn't he? Maybe you've got to knock him down a few
> rungs behind some guys who did it longer on a pure career-value basis,
> but you don't do so because he somehow didn't indisputably prove
> his greatness in the short time he was healthy. Same with Walton...
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Koufax was a late bloomer who
totally dominated baseball for, what, seven or eight years. During that
time he set the record for most no-hitters (before Ryan came along and
shattered it). As was previously noted, Walton had about 2 and a half
seasons where he played well. That Portland team was a nice team to
watch, but it was so brief and came at a time when the quality of play
throughout the league was abysmal. Seattle went to the finals in '78
and '79, winning it all on the second try, but I'm not ready to put the
likes of Jack Sikma, Slick Watts, or Downtown Freddy Brown into the Hall.
A more appropriate person to compare Walton to, instead of Koufax, would
be Roy Tarpley. He was absolutely devestating for about two years.
Ken
|
| 10.2068 | A sterling record | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:27 | 20 |
| I don't understand the Jabbar bashing. He's got to be all-time top 10
for longevity alone,but a closer look reveals:
1)He joined Milwaukee in their second year and single-handedly
engineered the greatest one-year turnaround in NBA history,from 24 wins
to 57. In his third year he teamed with Oscar Robertson to bring the
Bucks their only title.
2) The Bucks moved to the West Divison in 71-72 where they ran into two
great Lakers teams who knocked them out in the West finals. The 71-72
Bucks won 61 games,but the Lakers won 69. He led the Bucks back to the
finals in 73-74 but they lost to the Celts in 7. NoTe that the Bucks
have never been back to the finals.
3)He joined a Laker team stripped bare by his trading to the Bucks.
Yes,it's true that Magic revitalized his career and helped extend
it,but Jabbar was a major factor in the Lakers' run of 5 titles in the
80's. They haven't won since he retired.
Nuff said.
|
| 10.2069 | | CAMONE::WAY | Alas poor baldric | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:28 | 9 |
| > It *was* Clyde. If I remember correctly it was because it was
> about that time the movie 'Bonnie And Clyde' came out and Walt
> was known as a snazzy dresser like Warren Beatty in the movie.
Yeah, it definitely is Clyde.
Thanks for the reason Tommy...
|
| 10.2070 | Longevity should count for something | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:36 | 7 |
| The Koufax/Walton comparisons: Koufax was dominant for 5 years 1962-66.
Walton had an injury filled rookie year in 75-6. He was great in 76-77
as Portland won its only title. He led them to the best record in the
league in 77-8,but was injured and enjoyed only one other decent
season,as a Boston sub in 85-6. Doesn't compare to Koufax and can't be
considered in the same class as Olajuwan,Moses or Parrish. Longevity
must count for something and should denigrate a player's career.
|
| 10.2071 | Unless you write off the 1970s, Walton was there... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Tue Jun 07 1994 13:46 | 31 |
|
> I don't think this is a fair comparison. Koufax was a late bloomer who
> totally dominated baseball for, what, seven or eight years.
Actually only four, from 1963-66, and even 1964 was injury-interrupted.
Koufax won 20 games exactly 3 times. His stay at the top was not as
long as many remember, but most baseball people still have the good
sense to acknowledge his greatness, however brief. That's not all
that different from Walton's story, especially when you consider that
in a 5-man game like basketball a player can make a clear and
unarguable impact in a much shorter time (there are few fluke seasons
in basketball; in baseball they're commonplace).
> That Portland team was a nice team to
> watch, but it was so brief and came at a time when the quality of play
> throughout the league was abysmal. Seattle went to the finals in '78
> and '79, winning it all on the second try, but I'm not ready to put the
> likes of Jack Sikma, Slick Watts, or Downtown Freddy Brown into the Hall.
That's okay, because Seattle (and Washington with HOFers Hayes and
Unseld, who won in 1978) was not in any way comparable to Portland
in that period. Portland was crushing Seattle like nobody's business
on its way to the single-season record for victories when Walton got
hurt in 1978, after already having won it all in 1977. They were going
to a force for at least a few years to come; no question. And you're
better off comparing Portland with Philadelphia (Erving/McGinniss/Dawkins),
whom Portland summarily dismissed in the 1977 finals in 6 games.
glenn
|
| 10.2073 | The talent of the healthy Walton is obvious... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | | Tue Jun 07 1994 14:06 | 14 |
|
> Wasn't a pretty good Sidney Wicks on that Portland team? I
> don't remember the exact roster but it wasn't Bill Walton and
> four lumberjacks. Not denying that Walton was a great center
> and probably the best passing center that ever played but
> that was a good Portland *team*.
You might be thinking of Maurice Lucas, who I'd take over Wicks anyday.
Yes, that was a good Portland *team*. I don't think that the
conclusion that this was an excellent balanced team versus the claim
that Walton was probably the best passing center ever is coincidence...
glenn
|
| 10.2074 | | ROCK::HUBER | File and Forget | Tue Jun 07 1994 14:30 | 20 |
|
Just to rathole things a bit...
> I don't think this is a fair comparison. Koufax was a late bloomer who
> totally dominated baseball for, what, seven or eight years.
Actually only four, from 1963-66, and even 1964 was injury-interrupted.
Koufax won 20 games exactly 3 times. His stay at the top was not as
long as many remember, but most baseball people still have the good
sense to acknowledge his greatness, however brief.
Actually, Bill James pointed out something rather interesting about Koufax
a few years back. The "late blooming" of Koufax corresponded directly to
the Dodgers move from a great hitting park (can't remember what park it
was offhand - wasn't as bad as the park as Wrigley (LA version), but nearly
so) to a great pitchers park. Taking the difference into account, Koufax
made only a -small- improvement between his four dominating years and his
five "ordinary" years.
Joe
|
| 10.2075 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Tue Jun 07 1994 14:33 | 3 |
| I can't take guys who think Archibald was better than Magic
seriously.... sorry...
|
| 10.2076 | Misc. | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue Jun 07 1994 14:46 | 21 |
| The Portland starting five...
C Bill Walton
F Maurice Lucas
F Bobby Gross
G Dave Twardzik
G for the life of me I can't remember.
Maurice Lucas was a fine, fine player, but Gross and Twardzik
were ordinary to say the least. For Walton to win it all with
this cast is quite an achievement in my book.
By the way, I think Rick Barry did the same at Golden State.
They had Clifford Ray at center. I believe Phil Smith at guard
(and he was a good guard). It was another example of an excellent
player with great passing teams getting the most out of his team.
I wonder if I should have left out Walt Frazier. Tough decision.
Tony
|
| 10.2077 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Jun 07 1994 14:54 | 6 |
| Was the other guard named Hollins, or something like that? He
was a good penetrator. Twardzik was an outstanding perimeter
shooter, kind of like John Paxson in his prime, and an excellent
passer. Also, wasn't Geoff Petrie still on the team then?
Ken
|
| 10.2078 | Missing | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Tue Jun 07 1994 15:02 | 2 |
| The other Portland guard was Lionel Hollins with supersub Herm gilliam.
Hollins and Lucas were stars in their own right.
|
| 10.2079 | Yeah...Lionel Hollins | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue Jun 07 1994 15:47 | 8 |
| Yeah, that's right - Lionel Hollins. I knew he was the
third best player, but just couldn't remember who he was.
A fine player. Still, you look at other teams and many
champions are much better at the five positions. Not to
say each individual is better, but each is real good.
I can't say Bobby Gross and Twardzik were that good.
Tony
|
| 10.2080 | confirmed | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Tue Jun 07 1994 16:20 | 5 |
| > It *was* Clyde. If I remember correctly it was because it was
> about that time the movie 'Bonnie And Clyde' came out and Walt
> was known as a snazzy dresser like Warren Beatty in the movie.
Walt was interviewed on local radio last week and said the same thing.
|
| 10.2081 | | WKRP::LEETCH | U.S. Messaging Practice, Cincinnati | Tue Jun 07 1994 16:22 | 6 |
| Re: Portland guards
I thought the starting pair was Hollins and Johnny Davis (from Univ. of Dayton)
with Twardzik coming off the bench.
Bruce
|
| 10.2082 | ex-ASU star going back to Portland? | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Tue Jun 07 1994 16:24 | 2 |
| Lionel Hollins is now the assistant coach for Phoenix and is rumored to
be a candidate for the vacant Portland job.
|
| 10.2083 | Too many interviews... | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Tue Jun 07 1994 16:38 | 1 |
| Yeah, they asked me so I told them the truth...
|
| 10.2084 | | DSSDEV::AXEL | Mike Axel ZK2-2O04 DTN 381-2156 | Tue Jun 07 1994 21:06 | 6 |
| re .2080
I heard Frazier and Mike Breen discussing this during halftime of game
6. Frazier said that he lives in the Virgin Islands during the off
season and its all T-shirts, shorts, and sandals there, but he still
needs that glitz for the Big Apple.
|
| 10.2085 | The Stats, Rings, and Awards Don't Lie | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed Jun 08 1994 01:59 | 29 |
| This talk of Kareem not deserving to be ranked among the best
ever is ludicrous. Here are his PPG and RPG stats for his first
twelve years in the league:
PPG RPG
--- ---
28.8 14.5
31.7 16
34.8 16.6
30.2 16
27 14.5
30 14
27.7 16.8
26.2 13.2
25.8 12.9
23.8 12.8
24.8 10.8
26.2 10.2
At no time during his first *17* seasons did he average less than
21 points per game for a season. He won the MVP six times, more
than anybody else in league history.
You can argue Russ, Wilt, and Kareem forever and be on solid footing
with any order you propose, but there's no way you can make a
credible argument for ranking Kareem any worse than third all-time
among centers.
Ken
|
| 10.2086 | Kareem/McHale | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Wed Jun 08 1994 13:04 | 14 |
| Re -1
Yeah, I agree. Maybe I should have ranked him higher.
Also he was called to be a scorer. With his sky hook,
there's less rebounds to be had. Not like he'd be right
there under the basket like Malone often would after one
of his own misses. And still, his rebounding stats were
impressive.
My biggest ommission I think was Kevin McHale. I can't
believe I didn't give him at least honorable mention and
I should probably have found a top 20 spot for him.
Tony
|
| 10.2087 | Revised top 20 | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 08 1994 13:33 | 23 |
| After looking thru some well thought out top 20's,I have made slight
modifications to my original list. The common thread is rings,unlike
football and baseball,there hardly seems to be a worthy player who
doesn't have at least one ring:
The revised list with number of rings in parenthesis.
1-10 (Easy) 11-20(tough)
Jordan(3) *Dr J (2)
Magic (5) *Barry (2)
Russell(11) Moses (1)
Bird (3) Hayes (1)
Kareem (6) Cousy (7)
Robertson(1) Mikan (4)
West (1) Pettit (1)
Wilt (2) Isiaah (2)
Baylor (1) Hakeem/Ewing winner (1)
Havlicek (8) Cowens,Frazier(2) McHale,Parrish(3) -tied
*-Includes ABA
|
| 10.2088 | do we have a quorum? | VAOP28::Rice | The Puck Stops Here | Wed Jun 08 1994 16:05 | 29 |
|
> 1-10 (Easy) 11-20(tough)
> Jordan(3) *Dr J (2)
> Magic (5) *Barry (2)
> Russell(11) Moses (1)
> Bird (3) Hayes (1)
> Kareem (6) Cousy (7)
> Robertson(1) Mikan (4)
> West (1) Pettit (1)
> Wilt (2) Isiaah (2)
> Baylor (1) Hakeem/Ewing winner (1)
> Havlicek (8) Cowens,Frazier(2) McHale,Parrish(3) -tied
I have one major problem with this and several nits:
- You CAN'T logically rate West ahead of Cousy, and drop Cooze out
of the top 10. We tend to forget how great Cooze was - in the mid-
60's he was selected the PLAYER OF THE HALF-DECADE over Wilt, Russ,
West, etc. Therefore, someone has to be dropped from the top 10 to
make room. For my money Kareem has to go. I agree with LK that Kareem
is the 3rd best center ever, which rates him #11.
Nits:
- Barry over Pistol Pete? nah.
- Zeke? puh-leeze!
- The top 4 could be in any order, or tied.
josh
|
| 10.2089 | Pistol Pete? | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 08 1994 16:09 | 3 |
| What was so great about Pistol Pete?
Cousy should be higher.
|
| 10.2090 | "Pistol ..as in LITE it up" | AIMHI::KCUMMINGS | | Wed Jun 08 1994 17:49 | 3 |
|
You had to see it for yourself!
|
| 10.2091 | Great but not great enough | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 08 1994 17:57 | 10 |
| I saw Pistol play plenty of times and he was an exciting player to
watch,but not one of the best 20. He gets into the next group with
players like Hal Greer,Dave Bing,Earl Monroe,Jerry Lucas,Dave
DeBusschere,Nate Thurmond,Gus Johnson,Tiny Archibald etc.
These were among the very best in the league at their peak,but were not
catalysts behind championship teams or the very best in the league for
an extended period of time.
|
| 10.2092 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:07 | 3 |
| You Zeke bashers have to get over your Piston chip. He was the leader
of that team and did what it took to win...
|
| 10.2093 | where's da tweezers? | VAOP28::Rice | The Puck Stops Here | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:17 | 7 |
| > You Zeke bashers have to get over your Piston chip. He was the leader
> of that team and did what it took to win...
Sure. He did that. But top 20 all-time? Not even close. And it's not
a chip, it's a splinter....
josh
|
| 10.2094 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:25 | 2 |
| Well, he's in the top 5 point guards, right? He's got the rings.
He can shoot and play defense, what else do you need?
|
| 10.2095 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:33 | 2 |
| If Tiny didn't go down in the '82 Eastern Conference Finals, Boston
would've repeated.
|
| 10.2096 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:35 | 4 |
| If the refs call the foul they blow the whistle for instead of yielding
to the mob on the court, or Thomas stayed healthy for games 6 and 7,
the Pistons could have 3-peated...
|
| 10.2097 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:47 | 9 |
|
Walt wasn't that whistle for an out of bounds?
even so, Lakers led by 3 at that point.
And of course if Magic and Scott are healthy the Lakers might have 3-peated.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2098 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Wed Jun 08 1994 18:54 | 1 |
| Nope... it was for a foul...
|
| 10.2099 | Hardly | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed Jun 08 1994 20:29 | 5 |
| Yeah, an offensive foul on Zeke for running into Magic at halfcourt
with one second left on the clock with the Pistons down by 3. Yeah,
the Pistons was robbed alright.
Ken
|
| 10.2100 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Wed Jun 08 1994 20:32 | 6 |
| re: .2099
are you sure about that? seemed like a foul on Magic
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2101 | I have to stay out, 3 times in one week.. too much | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Jun 08 1994 20:35 | 2 |
| And If Michael Hadnt retired the bulls would have broke the celtics
record of 8 straight :-), hey its better then zeke top 20 :-)
|
| 10.2102 | $#$#$3 Laker Ken forcing me to defend the Pistons! | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Yankees are an embarassment-GeorgeK | Wed Jun 08 1994 20:37 | 7 |
| > Yeah, an offensive foul on Zeke for running into Magic at halfcourtwith
> one second left on the clock with the Pistons down by 3. Yeah,t
That's right. It's not like the Lakers ever threw the ball away in the
last seconds of a Finals game, or anything.
brews
|
| 10.2103 | As bad as it gets. (< 30% shooting combined in 2nd half!) | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Jun 09 1994 13:17 | 14 |
| Let's hope tapes of last nights NY @ Houston "basketball" game don't
get into the wrong hands. Assuming that's not likely, I'd start
looking for a surge in popularity in sports like baseball, football,
hockey, soccer, arena football, curling, senior bowling, etc, etc, etc.
Ugly folks. REEEL ugly. Shooters who can't shoot. "Touch fouls" that
are more like muggings. Blatant traveling violations that are patently
ignored. Questionable talent. Ugly players who certainly don't appear
to be having a whole lotta fun.
Ugh.
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.2104 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu Jun 09 1994 13:21 | 1 |
| Arena football ROOLZ!!!!
|
| 10.2105 | New sports will have violence like the NBA, but be more fun | RHETT::KNORR | Carolina Blue | Thu Jun 09 1994 14:10 | 12 |
| Yea, Arena football is COOL. Tell ya what though, keep yer eye out for
rollerblade hockey. There's a trash sport just waiting to collect all
that extra coin we'll all have soon from not going to NBA games.
If I were marketing Rollerblade Hockey I'd use a clever combination of
appealing to the growing numbers of "grass roots" supporters of this
sport (1% of the market) and the rest of us (99%) who just want to go
and watch people inflict bodily harm on others. (All perfectly legal,
a_course.)
- ACC Chris
|
| 10.2106 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Let me see shake yo tailfeather... | Thu Jun 09 1994 14:24 | 2 |
| Bryan Trottier's playing this summer...
|
| 10.2107 | | WKRP::LEETCH | U.S. Messaging Practice, Cincinnati | Thu Jun 09 1994 15:06 | 7 |
| I have to admit that I found myself blipping over to ESPN's Cleveland-Seattle
baseball game and forgetting to go back to the NBA game. And I was really
looking forward to watching the NBA game.
Can you say "clank"?
Bruce
|
| 10.2108 | A tree (of woe) grows in brooklyn and environs | AKOCOA::BREEN | Turn down the lights, the parties over | Fri Jun 10 1994 13:19 | 13 |
| somebody else commenting about the "blatant" traveling. One player
took about four steps, a jump, then a few more and was called and gave
the "wha!!!! I'm being persecuted" look then blamed a teamate.
Ironically Conan the Barbarian was on opposite, one of my all time
favorites which I put on tape but flipped back to quite a bit.
I think some ny fans looking to double dip this year may be visiting
the tree of woe
no met, I never knew conan as a child
billte
|
| 10.2109 | More On Kareem and Rebounds | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Mon Jun 13 1994 12:27 | 10 |
| re: .2085
Bob Ryan wrote an article on Olajuwan and Ewing. Their career
rebounding totals over their careers (10 and 9 years) are:
12.5 and 10.3.
Jabbar has a higher rebounding average over his first twelve
years than both Ewing and Olajuwan.
Tony
|
| 10.2110 | Don't believe Laker_Ken's revisionist history!!! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon Jun 13 1994 15:42 | 39 |
| Laker_ken, I don't know where you got your rebounding stats for Kareem,
but they are wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!!! From the 1992-93 version of the
NBA Register, I have the real facts on his stats:
1) Only twice did he grab more than 1100 rebounds in a season.
2) Only twice did he lead the league in rebounding.
3) He only averaged more than three offensive rebounds a game three
times.
4) All of his high rebounding stats took place in the first four years
of his career.
Here are his rebounding numbers per year:
YEAR OR-DR TOT AVE
1973-74 287-891 1178 14.4
1974-75 194-718 912 14.1
1975-76 272-1111 1383 17.0
1976-77 266-824 1090 13.2
1977-78 186-615 801 13.4
1978-79 207-818 1025 12.6
1979-80 190-696 886 10.8
1980-81 197-624 821 10.2
1981-82 172-487 659 8.2
1982-83 167-425 592 8.1
1983-84 169-418 587 7.4
1984-85 162-460 622 7.8
1985-86 133-345 478 6.0
1986-87 152-371 523 6.5
1987-88 118-360 478 6.0
1988-89 103-231 334 4.4
Not exactly top three all-time center stats. Maybe top ten.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2111 | Nazz's Revision History: Ignore Kareem's first four years! | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Jun 13 1994 19:47 | 10 |
| Nazz, my numbers are also taken from the NBA Register. Perhaps
your confusion stems from the fact that you have conveniently
left out Jabbar's first four seasons! His first season was '69-70,
not '73-74! There is only one other center in history who could
compare with Kareem in BOTH rebounding and scoring. That was Wilt.
Like I said, Kareem is top three among centers easy. Any other
opinion and you're not playing with a full deck, or, in your case,
with all the stats. ;)
Ken
|
| 10.2112 | | METSNY::francus | Rangers,Knicks,Mets in '94 | Mon Jun 13 1994 19:48 | 8 |
|
> Any other opinion and you're not playing with a full deck
has nothin' to do with that, he is still a Red Sox fan, 'nuf said. I should
know I am still an NY Rangers fan. :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2113 | Confused!! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue Jun 14 1994 12:57 | 11 |
| re: .2110
Nazz,
What about it?
On what basis do you qualify stats as you do?
?????,
Tony
|
| 10.2114 | Jabbar>Olajuwon/Ewing | BSS::MENDEZ | | Tue Jun 14 1994 20:16 | 6 |
| Whats the big deal????
Jabbar was a better center then both Ewing or Olajuwon.
|
| 10.2115 | I might even take Cowens over Kareem in their primes | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Wed Jun 15 1994 17:02 | 19 |
| 1. Jabbar is not as good as Olajuwon.
2. Jabbar may be about on the same plane as Ewing, but Patrick's
effort every game gives him the nod over Kareem.
3. Oops - I screwed up Ken! I conveniently left out those years
where the NBA didn't break out offensive rebounds.
4. Still, Kareem's rebounding numbers aren't that great.
5. Be honest Ken - would you take Kareem over any of these centers
in a seven game series for the NBA title?
- Russell
- Wilt
- Nate
- Hakeem
- Willis
NAZZ
|
| 10.2116 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | | Wed Jun 15 1994 17:28 | 9 |
| > 5. Be honest Ken - would you take Kareem over any of these centers
> in a seven game series for the NBA title?
> - Russell
> - Wilt
> - Nate
> - Hakeem
> - Willis
Russell, no. The other 4, yes.
|
| 10.2117 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed Jun 15 1994 17:29 | 35 |
| Re.
> 1. Jabbar is not as good as Olajuwon.
>
> 2. Jabbar may be about on the same plane as Ewing, but Patrick's
> effort every game gives him the nod over Kareem.
This is a joke. Basically, what you're doing is remembering Kareem
from the last few years of his career and comparing that to other
guys in their prime. Yes, Patrick comes to play every night, which is
why he scored a grand total of 1 point in a playoff game against the Pacers
and why he is currently shooting 35% in this series. I'm surprised you
didn't list Bill Cartright here too. Makes about as much sense.
> 4. Still, Kareem's rebounding numbers aren't that great.
I see. And just when did Patrick Ewing average 16 rebounds a game? And
when did Hakeem average 16 boards a game while simultaneously averaging
30 points a game?
> 5. Be honest Ken - would you take Kareem over any of these centers
> in a seven game series for the NBA title?
> - Russell
> - Wilt
> - Nate
> - Hakeem
> - Willis
I didn't see Russell and Wilt play in their primes. I started watching
the NBA around 1970 when Wilt was at the tail end of his career, so I won't
comment on those two. As for the rest of your list, it's a joke. I would
want Kareem especially in a big series because he never let the pressure
get to him and because he had the most unstoppable money shot ever.
Ken
|
| 10.2118 | But Cartwright still won 3 in a row :-) | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Jun 15 1994 18:53 | 12 |
| I think Jabbar would consistently outplay both Hakeem and Ewing....
(and I didnt particuly care for the lakers)... But face it what
could Hakeem or Ewing do vs Jabbar's Hook... and if you look at
the team could ewing or hakeem beat any of jabbar's finals teams
in a 7 game series...
I hated watching jabbar (early-mid 80's) he still seemed like he
couldnt miss... Jabbar and Parish are miracle centers, thats why
they had longevity and a few Rings between them...
So far Id say hands down Id take Hakeem over Ewing....
mab
|
| 10.2119 | Stats are for fantasy leagues | VAOP28::Rice | WE SKATE! | Wed Jun 15 1994 19:06 | 24 |
|
The center position is not about stats, it's about winning.
Russell is the proof. I have never considered Jabbar to be in
the same class with Russ or Wilt and I still don't, but Hakeem
and Patricia have yet to show me they understand winning.
Hakeem fades at the end of every game I've watched. It may be
Rudy T's fault, I don't care, if Hakeem is not there in crunch
time he doesn't understand winning.
Patricia would be a much better center if he scored 10 ppg.
He should be focused on defense and rebounding, but the
Knicks have no other options on offense. His stupidity at
the end of game 3 (moving pick) was inexcusable in a "fran-
chise" player.
I would rate Chief in his prime as better than Hakeem or Ewing.
Reed, Nate, Cowans, these guys have *proven* they can do it all.
Whoever wins this year will have to repeat to convince me they
belong in this class - the level of play I'm seeing is the
worst I can remember.
josh
|
| 10.2120 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Wed Jun 15 1994 19:22 | 10 |
| I have to agree with a noter a few relies back. You can't judge Lew
Alcinder/Kareem Abdul Jabbar on just his last 4 or 5 years in the league.
He was certainly one of the most dominating BB players that I have ever seen.
He brought championships everywhere he played from his high school days
to UCLA, to Milwaukee and to the Lakers. After his first year in the
NBA, he was easily the best player in the NBA for the next 5 or 6 years.
If there ever was a guy who could be called a francise player, he was it.
I rank him as one of the top 5 to ever play the game.
Keith
|
| 10.2121 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Wed Jun 15 1994 19:29 | 5 |
|
Given the choice I would take Alcindor/Jabbar over Ewing.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2122 | he's gonna retire this summer | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Wed Jun 15 1994 20:22 | 1 |
| > -< But Cartwright still won 3 in a row :-) >-
|
| 10.2123 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 02:02 | 17 |
| These are the years that one city had teams in both the NBA and NHL
finals. I could have sworn that the Knicks got to the finals in 1950,
which would add that year as well. Nazz, who was in the 1950 NBA
finals.
Year City NBA NHL
1957 Boston Celtics d. St Louis 4-3 Montreal d. Bruins 4-1
1958 Boston St. Louis d. Celtics 4-2 Montreal d. Bruins 4-2
1972 New York Lakers d. Knicks 4-1 Bruins d. Rangers 4-2
1974 Boston Celtics d. Milwaukee 4-3 Philadelphia d. Bruins 4-2
1980 Philly Lakers d. 76ers 4-2 Islanders d. Flyers 4-2
1992 Chicago Bulls d. Portland 4-2 Pittsburgh d. Blackhawks 4-0
1994 New York Knicks vs Houston Rangers d. Canucks 4-3
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2124 | Knicks in 51 final but not 50 | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 16 1994 12:49 | 8 |
| The knicks lost in finals in 51 and 52 to rochester and lakers but I
don't think they were in '50 final - that was rochester and mikan-led
minneapolis lakers.
Knicks had among others Sweetwater Lou Clifton and the "elder"
Vandeweghe. They also came back from 3-0 to force the final game.
|
| 10.2125 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 14:00 | 4 |
| gotcha I thought I had seen that the comeback from 3-0 was in 1950.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2126 | Count me in | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:09 | 8 |
| Nazz's note trashing Jabbar is about as ridiculous as any I've seen
in this conference(and that covers a lot of territory). Other replies
since then have done an excellent rebuttal job,so I don't need to
repeat,but just want to add the following:
Don't judge Jabbar on his last few years. the man won with every team
he ever played for. In my book,he's #2 behind Russell and the greatest
college player in history.
|
| 10.2127 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:15 | 8 |
|
I won't dispute that Jabbar was one of the best but top 5 is rediculous.
Did any of the other great ones have such a drop off in numbers like
ABdul Jabba did? As Al would say "I don't think so". 4+ rebounds per
game for a 7'2" player is rediculous. I also think Walton was a more
complete and better college player than Lew........
mike
|
| 10.2128 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:18 | 5 |
|
gotta agree with .2127, Walton was the best college player ever.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2129 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:28 | 7 |
| I wonder if some of younze guys were watching basketball in the early to mid
70's when Kareem totally dominated the game. When he was at Milwaukee,
what kind of supporting cast did he have when he took them to the
championship rounds ? For a long time, he was clearly the best player in the
NBA.
Keith
|
| 10.2130 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:29 | 4 |
|
When Kareem was in Milwaukee he had Bobby Dandridge, Lucius
Allen and the great Oscar Robertson. Not too shabby. He certainly
didn't win it by himself.
|
| 10.2131 | Jabbar's case | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Jun 16 1994 16:46 | 13 |
| He only had Oscar for 2 years-at the end of his career. How about his
rookie season,taking a second year expansion team to 57 wins? I also
thought Walton had a better supporting cast on his UCLA teams than
Alcindor. Lew won 3 titles,beating some excellent Elvin Hayes led
Houston teams.
Jabbar's career was enhanced/revitalized by Magic in the 80's. The
Lakers had an excellent supporting cast of rebounders in his later
years.
It's tough to choose between Jabbar and Wilt for #2 behind Russell.
I'll take Jabbar for longevity and 6 rings(only Russell,cousy and
Havlicek have more).
|
| 10.2133 | How many titles did magic win by himself | BSS::MENDEZ | | Thu Jun 16 1994 17:15 | 4 |
| The other side of the coin is that Magic won no titles without Kareem.
Frank
|
| 10.2135 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 17:19 | 8 |
| > The other side of the coin is that Magic won no titles without Kareem.
How about game 6 of the 1980 Finals!
Interesting stat last night about top rookie scoring performances in
the Finals on NBC last night. Magic's 42 is tops, Sam Cassell is
around 5th or 5th for his 20 the other night. Alvan Adams and Ricky
Sobers of the Suns are 2nd and 3rd from the '76 series vs. Boston.
|
| 10.2136 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 17:19 | 9 |
| re: .2133
During Jabbar's last season in LA his skills had really deteriorated and
Magic picked up a lot of the slack.
Magic did get to the Finals, I think once, after Jabbar retired
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2137 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 17:21 | 6 |
| >Magic did get to the Finals, I think once, after Jabbar retired
I think it may be twice: once vs. Detroit, once vs. Chicago.
Against Detroit, the Laker guards suffered untimely injuries giving the
Pistons their first title.
|
| 10.2138 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 17:24 | 11 |
|
Right 1990 and 1992.
> Against Detroit, the Laker guards suffered untimely injuries giving the
> Pistons their first title.
maybe, maybe not; though a 4 game sweep would have been unlikely. That
season Detroit had home court throughout the playoffs.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2139 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Thu Jun 16 1994 17:27 | 2 |
|
they wussied out cause they knew Detroit was going to clean their clocks...
|
| 10.2140 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Thu Jun 16 1994 18:05 | 3 |
| And an untimely Isiah injury kept them from 3peating... , it's part of
the game...
|
| 10.2141 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Thu Jun 16 1994 19:08 | 6 |
| 10.2142 | Corrected on Oscar | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Jun 16 1994 19:19 | 18 |
| Alright 4 years,but Robertson was a shell of his former self and
frequently hurt. This was Jabbar's team. The Bucks were derailed by
great Laker teams in 1972 and 1973.
Jabbar retired in 1989. The West finalists in Magic's last three
seasons were:
1990-Portland lost to Detroit 4-1
1991-Los Angeles lost to Chicago 4-1
1992-Portland lost to Chicago 4-2
Magic and Jabbar were a great complement. In 1980,when Magic took over
from an injured Jabbar to dominate in Game 6,Jabbar had a very good
series in the first 5 games.
He is no worse than the third greatest center in NBA history,battling
with Wilt for #2 behind Russell. And collegiately he stands slightly
ahead of Walton,(88-2 to 86-4,3 titles to two)
|
| 10.2143 | Ask the little kid in "Airplane" - he knew how Kareem dogged it | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Jun 16 1994 19:37 | 13 |
| You wanna talk about supporting casts, Lew Alcindor's supporting cast
at UCLA was incredible. Walton played with the likes of Greg Lee!
Kareem never averaged double figures in rebounding for the last 8 years
of his career! He led the league in rebounding only twice. He was in
the top ten in rebounding only twice in the decade of the 80s, and
never in the top five for the last ten years of his career.
I maintain that for a man of his size and athletic ability, Kareem was
an underachiever, and without Magic would have posted Wilt-like totals
in number oc championships won.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2144 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Jun 16 1994 19:50 | 56 |
| Re.
> Did any of the other great ones have such a drop off in numbers like
> ABdul Jabba did? As Al would say "I don't think so".
You mean like in his 18th season when for the first time in his career
he averaged less than 21 points per game? You mean like in his 13th
year when for the first time in his career he averaged less than 10
boards a game?
For some perspective, your Celtic hereos Russell and Parish never ONCE
averaged 20 points per game for a season, let alone 17!
Re.
> That's got to be some kind of record for understatement. Take
> Magic off that Lakers team and Kareem finishes his career with
> one ring and spends the rest of his life being compared to Wilt
> for posting great stats but not titles. It wasn't Kareem that was
> the catalyst for those Lakers championship squads.
This is lame. It's a tired, old, and ineffective way of trying to diminish
a great player by saying that he was carried by another great player.
The fact is that the Lakers were a great team because they had BOTH of
these players. In 1980, Kareem was on his way to winning the championship
series MVP when he went down with an ankle injury in game. The injury
forced him to miss Game 6 and set the stage for Magic's legendary
performance in Philly.
In 1985, after losing to the Celts by 41 points in game one (the Memorial
Day Massacre), it was Kareem, at 38, who led the Lakers past the Celtics
by totally destroying Parish and McHale (who was asked to try to defend
Kareem when it was embarrassingly clear that Parish didn't have a prayer)
and winning the series MVP. The capper was that in beating the Celtics
for the first time ever in a championship, Kareem and the Lakers won
the clincher, Game 6, on the Gahden floor while ol' Red gagged on his
cigar. This, I suspect, more than anything, is the cause of the unreasonable
criticisms of Jabbar we're seeing here. Celtics fans still hate Jabbar
for that moment.
Magic and Kareem were great for each other. Take away one, and the
other doesn't win all those rings in the 80s. Neither one carried
the other.
Re. best college players:
Kareem led UCLA to titles in his sophomore, junior, and senior seasons.
During that time, they lost only ONE game, a regular-season game to
Elvin Hayes in Houston. At that time, freshmen were prohibited from
playing for the varsity team. But, in a fairly famous game, Kareem
led his freshmen team to an embarrassingly easy win over the varsity
UCLA team, the same varsity team that was national champs. Needless
to say, Walton's collegiate record, while otherwise impressive, is
spotty compared to Cap's.
Ken
|
| 10.2145 | have to disagree with greg lee assessment | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 16 1994 19:50 | 13 |
| >Walton played with the likes of Greg Lee!
Nazz, is this revisionist history?!
Greg Lee was an extremely good college point guard who to my knoweledge
never played in the nba but his absence from the nba was not from a
lack of talent but his involvement in other things. These "other
things" (like Patty Hearst) caused a slippage in Lee's senior year but
he was a dominant star his first two years.
Keith Wilkes also played with Walton but I do agree that overall the
Alcindor cast was superior given especially the level of opposing
talent.
|
| 10.2146 | Man, you guys are stretching. Ignore his first decade. Oh, that makes sense. | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Jun 16 1994 19:56 | 6 |
| So Nazz, why is it that every criticism you have of Kareem starts with
the preface, "After his first ten years ..." ?
Just for fun, what did Larry Bird do after his "first ten years"?
Ken
|
| 10.2148 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:17 | 6 |
| >cigar. This, I suspect, more than anything, is the cause of the unreasonable
>criticisms of Jabbar we're seeing here. Celtics fans still hate Jabbar
>for that moment.
No actually it's for not having the decency to show up for their
regularly scheduled flogging in '86.
|
| 10.2149 | Great reply | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:19 | 16 |
| re: .2144
Great note Ken. A clear explanation of why Celtic fans continually
trash Kareem.
Two slight inaccuracies:
Alcindor lost two games in college. Senior year to USC,88-2 overall.
The UCLA team that his freshman group crushed was the defending
national champs,but actually failed to make the NCAA tourney in 1966.
The NCAA champs that year were Texas Western which beat a Kentucky team
led by Pat Riley.
|
| 10.2150 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:21 | 10 |
|
> No actually it's for not having the decency to show up for their
> regularly scheduled flogging in '86.
You must have forgotten all about 1985 and 1987.
Magic was 2-1 against the Celtics in the finals
Jabbar was 2-2 (?) against the Celtics in the finals
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2151 | not many put up these numbers today | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:23 | 13 |
| >Just for fun, what did Larry Bird do after his "first ten years"?
Let's see, he retired after the 1992 season (his 12th). Here are his
season stats for those extra 2 years:
1990-91 (60 games) 1991-92 (45 games)
------- -------
Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg
38.0 19.4 8.5 7.2 2.8 36.9 20.2 9.64 6.8 1.67
He actually improved his averages in his final season.
Mike
|
| 10.2152 | would've broomed them anyway | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:26 | 10 |
| >You must have forgotten all about 1985 and 1987.
No I didn't. Boston showed up both of those years in the Finals. In
'87, the whole frontline was battered and bruised, but they still made
it. Parish and McHale were playing on 1 good leg, but they had the
filberts to make it to the Finals.
The Lakers didn't even have the filberts to show up in '86. They were
ousted by a Houston team that is arguably as talented as the one in the
Finals now.
|
| 10.2153 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:31 | 4 |
| and 1985???
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2154 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:37 | 3 |
| what about '85? I just said Boston was there and took their medicine
like main. Larry remodeling someone's face with his shooting hand
didn't help, but they were there.
|
| 10.2155 | ?? | CSC32::GAULKE | | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:39 | 10 |
|
1990-91 (60 games) 1991-92 (45 games)
------- -------
Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg
38.0 19.4 8.5 7.2 2.8 36.9 20.2 9.64 6.8 1.67
^^^ ^^^^
| |
What's this stat? Defensive plays per game ?
|
| 10.2156 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 16 1994 20:41 | 1 |
| that's right, steals + blocks / games
|
| 10.2157 | Kareem and Parish are about = | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Fri Jun 17 1994 15:50 | 22 |
| Funny you should mention the Chief, Laker_Ken. His stats and Kareem's
are extremely close for their careers, with the ol' baldy only having a
significant edge over Parish in field goals ATTEMPTED!!!
Here are their comparative stats:
G FGA FG% FT% REB BLK/G PTS AVE
Parish 1260 15656 .542 .723 10.1 1.8 20634 16.4
Kareem 1560 28307 .559 .721 10.9 1.9 38387 24.6
And in the playoffs:
G FGA FG% FT% REB BLK/G PTS AVE
Parish 174 2164 .506 .723 10.1 1.7 2376 15.7
Kareem 237 4422 .533 .740 10.1 2.0 5762 24.3
Both men were remarkably consistent throughout their careers. Parish's
offense suffered from being no better than the third option in the
Celtic's offense, while Kareem was the focal point of LA's attack.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2158 | I'll take Chief | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Fri Jun 17 1994 16:03 | 7 |
| Good one, Nazz.
Speaking of Baldy, I saw him in a Bruce Lee bio lasted night on
A&E. I'd *love* to see him and the Chief square off for some
karate ;)
josh
|
| 10.2159 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Yankees are an embarassment-GeorgeK | Fri Jun 17 1994 16:12 | 7 |
|
The Kareem backers are also forgetting that for much of the early part of
KArreem's career, he was the only 7 footer in the league. He was
routinely going up against centers who were 4-5 inches shorter then
him.
|
| 10.2160 | This Kareem-Bashing Is A Full Flaming Crock!!! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri Jun 17 1994 16:32 | 46 |
| Explanations can be made, but to consider an 8 differential in
points per game to be basically equal or comparable or however
you put it is absurd.
There were some decent centers back then. Yeah, Unseld was small,
but he was unique. There was Wilt, Thurmond, Lanier, Bellamy...
there were a few big centers back then.
Back when he played for the Bucks, my memories of Kareem were that
the entire focus of the defense was to stop him. Oscar was good,
but he was definitely a lot older. Dandridge was good, not great.
It was all Kareem. Any Buck's fan knew it and any opponent knew
it as well. And sure Jabbar did not win rings before Magic came
along, but then again, they all but sold the farm for Jabbar.
In response to the counting of the number of rings...
How many did Baylor get? He seems to be in everybody's top 10.
And any he got...to what degree would one argue that he was in West's
shadow or Wilt's shadow at the time?
I suggest that Jabbar is getting ranked on the basis of rules that
are not applied accross the board.
The more I think of it, the more it is obvious that in most years,
it simply takes a few very good players to win the big one. How many
has Erving won? None without Malone. How about Bird? Would he have
won any without McHale and Parrish? I don't know. How about Jordan
even? I think the Bulls may have been a hair within winning it all
THIS year.
How about Magic and Kareem? Its not so bad having perhaps the
fastest forward of all time helping make the fast break happen
either, is it (Worthy)?
This Kareem bashing is completely absurd in my book. And I think
something can be said for the decline of ability with age. Sure,
maybe Kareem held out too long. And to compare career-wise with
Chief, well, I'll bet the Chief is almost a miracle in terms of
how little he's declined with age.
Take the stats of Kareem's first 10 or 12 years and see what you've
got. And if rings are going to be so important, drop Baylor from
your top ten and maybe replace him with Horace Grant!
Tony
|
| 10.2161 | The evidence grows | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Fri Jun 17 1994 16:47 | 9 |
| Also in Jabbar's first few years,the league had far fewer teams.
Tony,you stated the case beautifully. I don't think NAZZ is serious.
He's just having some fun. You can't seriously compare Jabbar to
Parish.
Re: Baylor
Although not the focal point in 1972-3(He barely played),Baylor
deserves kudos for all the finals the Lakers were in during his career.
How many rings would he have had if not for the Celtic dynasty?
|
| 10.2162 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | Yankees are an embarassment-GeorgeK | Fri Jun 17 1994 16:50 | 6 |
| Wilted was the only true 7 footer (well, except for Hank Finkle), and
Kareem only played against him for a couple years, at the tail end of
his career. Kareem still had a huge height advantage over Unseld,
Lanier, Cowens and the other centers of that time.
brews
|
| 10.2163 | Reality time! | CADSYS::CAVE | | Fri Jun 17 1994 16:58 | 15 |
|
I assume NAZZ has to be somewhat kidding. Otherwise he loses a lot of
credability. Kareem=Parish is a joke. His own statistics argue against
him. I believe Kareem won multiple MVP awards and 2? playoff MVP's
(1985, and his first championship). Parish was a important part of the
Celtics but never the MAN. MVP generally equates to best player in the game
for that year. Kareem achieved this a few times while Parish was NEVER
even consider the best center in a given year (probaby never even the second
best center). He was never the Celtics first option. In fact, Kareem's
higher FG% (especially in the playoffs) is very impressive given that he WAS
the first option, took many more shots, and was often double teamed.
I'll agree that Kareem sometimes played "soft" and maybe could have been more
of a rebounding/defensive force but he still was easily the 3rd (at least)
best center to date and far above Parish.
|
| 10.2164 | Laker_Ken knows how to get me started! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Fri Jun 17 1994 17:06 | 3 |
| Who me, kid?!?!?
NAZZ
|
| 10.2165 | You cant comapre | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Jun 17 1994 18:58 | 9 |
| You cant compare them fairly... If you go strictly by
stats/championships them Jordan is better then Magic and Bird.
He has better stats and won 3 championships in a row...
Parish happened to play with Bird/Mchale, but you dont now what
parish's numbers would have been had he played for Jabbar's team
all those years...
MaB
|
| 10.2166 | They're both top 5 | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Fri Jun 17 1994 19:13 | 14 |
| > He's just having some fun. You can't seriously compare Jabbar to
> Parish.
FWIW, I saw an interview with Wilt a few years ago where he ranked
Chief as one of the all-time top 5 centers. "The greatest medium-range
jump shot in the history of the position" is a direct quote. Chief in
his prime was a better rebounder and shot blocker than Kareem ever was,
and always ran the floor better. Kareem was always a scorer first, and
then maybe he did some other stuff. Who's more valuable? Depends on the
needs of the team. If you have Bird and McHale you don't need the scoring.
The Lakers had no post-up game other than Kareem - he was right for that
team.
josh
|
| 10.2167 | There's been a few Questionable MVP's over the YRS | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Jun 17 1994 19:26 | 15 |
| -1, here here...
Depending on the circumstances Parish may be a more valuable player to
his team. Sometime's players are asked to fill a certain role, not all
of them can fill it, but to take yourself out of the limelight and do
what is needed to win is definatly more valuable.
jabbar was asked/and needed to score, Parshi was not... that does not
automatically translate into a more valuable player. And we all know
that awards are sometimes a joke (In sports and the real world).
MVP is always judgemental, in the regurlar season as well as the
playoffs.. Just becuase you win it does not prove that you were in
fact the MVP...
MaB
|
| 10.2168 | Temper Anything Wilt Says! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri Jun 17 1994 19:51 | 9 |
| I'm not saying that I disagree with the Parrish compliments,
but temper what Wilt says! I remember an NBA championship
game a few years back where at halftime, Lanier and Wilt were
interviewed from the stands. Each was asked who they would build
a team around if being able to choose anybody. Laniew said Magic
and Wilt said John Stockton. Lanier's response was to place his
hand on Wilt's forehead to check his temperature!
Tony
|
| 10.2169 | | CADSYS::CAVE | | Fri Jun 17 1994 20:22 | 19 |
|
Please don't disregard the importance of the MVP reward. It doesn't
always go to the best/most valuable player but it certainly says a lot
about the quality of the player. Look at the past MVP's in the NBA and
you have Hakeem, Barkey, Jordan++, Bird++, Magic++, Moses+, Kareem
(lots of big names there).
You can say that Parish was better for the Celtics situation all you want
but that is a last ditch effort to find some way to put Parish with
Kareem. I really like the Chief and always have but pleaseeee!
mAir - small nit, how is Jordan > Magic based on championships and MVP's
I could be wrong but I thought Magic had 5 rings 2 MVP's (7) and Jordan
had 3 rings, 3? MVP's (6). With that said, I have Jordan rated #1 all-time.
|
| 10.2170 | I wish they would start at 7:30 or 8:00 | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Jun 17 1994 20:33 | 27 |
| -1, Magic never won 3 in a row, magic never won 7 scoring titles so
Jordan has 13 to Magic's 7.. What does this mean you can use #'s and
championships, records, rewards all you want... but bottom line none
of it proves who the best player was/is...
Granted some are obvious, All previous mention center's were/are
proberbly better then cartwright was/is.. :-) Id say you almost
have to rate them in era/decades
Who was the best guard/center/forward of the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's
What was the best team of all time
60's Celtics, Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Jordan's Bulls
would/should all show up in the top 5...
I just think its unfair to say Parish was less a center then Jabbar
when they had very different roles thru there careers and played
for very different teams...
Doesnt matter anyways there's not a guard in the league left that
can carry the jock of jordan or magic, and there's not too many
center's that have a complete package.. If anything this series
has shown that maybe Ewing/Hakeem arnt as good as we thought.
Jordans/Magics/Birds could grab a game/seires in there teeth and
dictate the game/match and walk away with the championship. Both
of these teams look lost and are both playing to not lose...
Is tonight a 9pm tipoff ??
|
| 10.2171 | jabbar = Russell | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Jun 17 1994 20:53 | 4 |
| Then just maybe its unfair to say that Jabbar is less of a center then
Bill Russell.
|
| 10.2172 | 3 MVP's in a row: '84-'86 | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Fri Jun 17 1994 21:10 | 3 |
| >you have Hakeem, Barkey, Jordan++, Bird++, Magic++, Moses+, Kareem
that should be Bird+++
|
| 10.2173 | 86 Rockets were better | BUMP::MMARLAND | | Mon Jun 20 1994 18:11 | 16 |
| .RE If anything this series has shown that maybe Ewing/Hakeem arnt as good
as we thought. Jordans/Magics/Birds could grab a game/seires in there
teeth and dictate the game/match and walk away with the championship. Both
of these teams look lost and are both playing to not lose...
Best comment so far. The NBA has done a great job making these guys off as
demi god's. Neither player has dominated the series. Bird and Magic made so
many great plays and passes in one game than I've seen in whole series.
The level of play is terrible. C's and Lakers of 80's would run circles
around these guys. Heck I think the 86 rockets were a better team than this
team even with Stiff Sampson.
Mike
|
| 10.2174 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Jun 20 1994 19:25 | 9 |
| Nazz's and Josh's comparisons of Parish to Jabbar are certainly said in
jest. No sane person could believe that Parish comes close to measuring
up to Kareem.
Kareem was the go-to guy on his teams. Parish was the third or fourth
option on the Celtics. A more appropriate comparison would be to say
that Parish was to the Celtics as Byron Scott was to the Lakers.
Ken
|
| 10.2175 | Your humor has sunk to a new low, Laker_Ken! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon Jun 20 1994 19:29 | 8 |
| Byron Scott!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
He was at best the 4th option on the Lakers - a halfway decent jump
shooter with few other skills. Parish could shoot, rebound, block
shots, and play excellent defense. Comparing Parish to Scott is much
more insane than comparing Parish to Kareem.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2176 | Jabbar | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Mon Jun 20 1994 19:53 | 15 |
| One thing Nazz and Josh should also remember is that Parrish's career
was going nowhere his first 6 years. Playing with Bird turned it around
overnight. Parrish was finally able to live up to his potential and
become one of the better NBA centers during the 1980's and early 90's.
Jabbar,OTOH,was rookie of the year and won several MVP's before the
Lakers traded 4 very good players for him(Brian Winters,Elmore Smith,Ulysses
Bridgeman and David Meyers). Jabbar came on to a pillaged Laker team
and was almost a one man team until Magic came on the scene and
provided the skill to make the Lakers champions.
While Jabbar was traded for four good players,Parrish was traded along
with Kevin McHale for Joe Barry Carroll. That is what NBA scouts
thought of Parrish in 1979. If you can't tell the difference then
you're not interested in a serious comparison. There is none.
|
| 10.2178 | Backgrounds left large gap in preparation for the pros | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon Jun 20 1994 20:27 | 20 |
| FYI - Parish played four years with the Warriors, not six.
I don't believe I've ever said Parish was a better center than Kareem.
What I've said is that he is comparable. Yes, I believe Kareem may
have a slight edge on Parish, but I think if Robert played for the
Lakers and Kareem for the Celitcs, their stats would be much closer.
As the primary option, Kareem obviously shot more than Robert. Take
away the shots attempted category and Kareem's stats are only very
slightly better than Robert's.
You make a good point that Kareem put up huge numbers in his first few
years with the Bucks, and Parish could be viewed as somewhat of a
disappointment with the Warriors, which is why they traded him. One
thing you must remember is that playing for UCLA rather than a
probation-plagued Centenary did a much better job preparing Kareem for
the pros. Robert's first few years in the league served as on the job
training, while Kareem was ready to deal with the big time from the
first minute he stepped on the court in the NBA.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2179 | Comparable,maybe | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Mon Jun 20 1994 20:38 | 11 |
| 10.2180 | Purple fog? | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Mon Jun 20 1994 20:54 | 13 |
| LK, what is your problem? Did Chief make off with your stash
or something? He is definitely a HoF center, one of the top 5 in
my book, of *course* he's comparable to the over-hyped Jabbar.
Jabbar on the Bird/McHale Celts would have been a disaster.
Chief on the Magic/Worthy Lakers would have been great - and he
would have got enough rebounds that Riley could have put Kurt
Rambis on the end of the bench where he belonged.
In the running for top 5 centers (3,4 and 5) you have Kareem,
Chief, Mikan, Malone, Lanier, Cowans, Walton and Nate. They are
all comparable, but I'll take Kareem, Chief and Moses.
josh
|
| 10.2181 | | CSLALL::BRULE | We ain't leaving till we're heaving | Tue Jun 21 1994 12:19 | 2 |
| I believe that Parrish was the last pick in the first round when he was
drafted not a top pick.
|
| 10.2182 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Jun 21 1994 13:17 | 21 |
| Re.
> LK, what is your problem? Did Chief make off with your stash
> or something?
No problem with Chief. I'm just trying to set you guys straight on
his proper ranking in the history books. Over the past five years or
so, he's gone from being a slightly underrated center to being one of
the most overrated centers. What's your problem with Kareem? Did he
give you some free financial advice?
Re.
> In the running for top 5 centers (3,4 and 5) you have Kareem,
> Chief, Mikan, Malone, Lanier, Cowans, Walton and Nate. They are
> all comparable, but I'll take Kareem, Chief and Moses.
Chief isn't even close. Moses and Hakeem were/are far superior centers
than Chief.
Ken
|
| 10.2183 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue Jun 21 1994 13:23 | 11 |
|
|Chief isn't even close. Moses and Hakeem were/are far superior centers
|than Chief.
NOT. Before he retires Hakeem may prove to be better, but Robert was/is
clearly better than Malone, despite what the stats say.
I always said during the glory years, as goes Robert, so goes the Celtics. For
the last five years of the McHale-Bird-Parrish teams, Parrish was the MVP.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2184 | 8th pick | CNTROL::KING | | Tue Jun 21 1994 13:34 | 1 |
| Parish was the 8th pick in 1976
|
| 10.2186 | Parish showed some potential at GS | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Tue Jun 21 1994 14:09 | 18 |
| Here are Parish's stats for his four Golden State years. He wasn't a
bust, but he wasn't HoF material with them:
year G MIN FG% FT% OR DR REB BLK PTS AVE
1976-77 77 1384 .503 .708 201 342 543 94 697 9.1
1977-78 82 1969 .472 .625 211 469 680 123 1025 12.5
1978-79 76 2411 .499 .698 265 651 916 217 1304 17.2
1979-80 72 2119 .507 .715 247 536 783 115 1223 17.0
As far as ranking all-time NBA centers goes, I'd rank Kareem slightly
higher than Parish, but both would be in the Top Ten. The top three
are clearly Russell, Wilt, and Moses. Hakeem is 4th, and I think in
a couple of years David Robinson will be in this company. Second five
would include Kareem, Nate Thurmond, Parish, George Mikan, and Willis
Reed. Next five would include Bob Lanier, Dave Cowens, Patrick Ewing,
Walt Bellamy, and Bill Walton.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2187 | as a celtic walton was better than parrish | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Tue Jun 21 1994 14:32 | 10 |
|
would anyone actully disagree that during 1986 the celtics were a
better team with a 50% walton than with parrish?
A healthy walton was the best of them all with possible exception of
russell; yes walton only had a few of those "healthy" years as a
professional.
For longevity then parrish and jabbar are contenders but not his best
vs his best type of rating
|
| 10.2188 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Tue Jun 21 1994 14:36 | 10 |
| | would anyone actully disagree that during 1986 the celtics were a
| better team with a 50% walton than with parrish?
Unless I misunderstand waht you are saying, I disagree. Are you saying that
Walton was flat better than Parrish that year? I say no way. Walton was
brilliant in the 15-20 minutes/game he played, but Parrish was the horse, who
was out there for 30+ minutes a game. The thing that made the team so great
was the combination of the two at the center position.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2189 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Tue Jun 21 1994 14:44 | 16 |
| RE <<< Note 10.2188 by CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH "You gotta put down the duckie..." >>>
>Walton was flat better than Parrish that year? I say no way. Walton was
>brilliant in the 15-20 minutes/game he played, but Parrish was the horse, who
>was out there for 30+ minutes a game. The thing that made the team so great
>was the combination of the two at the center position.
Well said. Walton and Parrish did a fine job teaming up on one of the "twin
towers" while McHale managed to do a good job on the other.
Parrish is not what you would call a franchise player like some of the others
that have been mentioned, but he fit well into the Celtics team style of play
during their championship years and on defense he often seemed to be able
to neutralize the other teams big guy and prevent him from having a big game.
George
|
| 10.2190 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Jun 21 1994 15:08 | 20 |
| Re.
> Before he retires Hakeem may prove to be better, but Robert was/is
> clearly better than Malone, despite what the stats say.
This is what I mean by Bostonians overrating their athletes. Both players
are roughly the same age, so they were in their primes at the same time.
During that time, Moses Malone was the league's MVP three times. Robert
Parish was never even once considered a contender for the award.
And don't give me any of this b.s. about how Parish sacrificed his game
because he played with Bird and McHale. Moses won the MVP when he played
with great players, such as in 1983 with Julius Erving, Mo Cheeks, Andrew
Toney, and Bobby Jones, and he won it in Houston when he was surrounded
by mediocre players and took it upon himself to be THE MAN. In contrast,
Parish was never THE MAN, even when he clearly had the opportunity to do
so in Golden State. Face facts; the guy preferred playing second fiddle
instead of being a leader.
Ken
|
| 10.2191 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Tue Jun 21 1994 15:15 | 15 |
| RE <<< Note 10.2190 by DOCTP::TESSIER >>>
> ... In contrast,
>Parish was never THE MAN, even when he clearly had the opportunity to do
>so in Golden State. Face facts; the guy preferred playing second fiddle
>instead of being a leader.
I agree, but he often ended up defending against "THE MAN" on the other team
and in that role he usually did a fine job. Even this past year he did a
respectable job on younger guys like Shack.
Parish never claimed to be the franchise. There's nothing wrong with being a
team player.
George
|
| 10.2192 | so just take walton out of all comparisons | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Tue Jun 21 1994 15:37 | 15 |
| I agree that the combination was one of the best of all time. And yes,
Walton's minutes had to be limited. And on top of that I recall
Parrish coming up big defensively against all the top centers
(especially in early 80s).
But what I said was the celtics were better with walton in there than
parrish and that even as late as 1986 Walton was dominating everyone
for his minutes (which could have been more but for team concept
parrish was allowed to get 30 to waltons 20).
Malone at his peak belongs near the top and certainly ahead of parrish.
My original problem was how to rate a walton brief excellence vs
longevity of others whose best was far behind walton's best
billthe
|
| 10.2193 | Parish > Malone? Yeah, that's a bit much... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | Indians in '94 | Tue Jun 21 1994 15:43 | 16 |
|
Yes, I have a hard time believing that the Celtics would not have done
just as well and almost certainly better with Moses Malone at center in
place of Robert Parish. Malone got the job done, and perhaps unlike
with the valid but overrated criticism of Jabbar, in his prime was not
afraid to mix it up for a full 48 minutes. Parish might have been a
bit prettier in some eyes, but to me, when Malone had the ball
underneath I counted it as good as in the basket, even if he had to
slop it up there and work to get it back 3-4 times to make it happen.
Defensively you might make an argument for Parish but not enough of one
to overcome the large offensive difference, and even if he didn't get
off the ground too well, Malone somehow managed to anchor whatever
defense Philly from the middle...
glenn
|
| 10.2194 | On too the next rat hole | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Tue Jun 21 1994 16:07 | 4 |
| Ok onto something more important, whos the better actor Wilt or Jabbar
:-)
mab
|
| 10.2195 | OJ | HBAHBA::HAAS | Ate a hot dog, made me feel good | Tue Jun 21 1994 16:12 | 0 |
| 10.2196 | Jabbar's "Airplane" role pales in comparison... | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Tue Jun 21 1994 16:19 | 5 |
| The fact that Chambermaid was able to convince some writers
that he was a better crunch time performer than BILL RUSSELL should
qualify him for an Oscar nomination, at least!
/Don
|
| 10.2197 | Malone, maybe | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Tue Jun 21 1994 16:28 | 20 |
|
There is certainly a valid argument for Malone as #3, but
let's not over-rate this MVP thing - it's hype, it's PR,
it's political, and it's mostly bs. Malone was merely
adequate on defense, and I still consider defense a center's
primary job on a championship team. Malone's case rests on
his *awesome* rebounding, particularly on the offensive end,
probably the best ever. Chief was better defensively than
anyone I can remember since Russell. He also ran the floor
better.
re: Hakeem
Let's see if he can win tomorrow night before we start giving
him his place in history. Never mind the stats - Ewing has
outplayed Hakeem in this series. Of course, he has also
beaten him up rather badly, but that's the way the game is
played this year....sigh....
josh
|
| 10.2198 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Jun 21 1994 16:47 | 25 |
| Re.
> Chief was better defensively than anyone I can remember
> since Russell.
Josh, apparently you've forgotten about 20 years of basketball then!
Robert Parish was never named to the All-Defensive team, as other
centers such as Hakeem and Kareem were. He was a decent defensive
center. In contrast, Hakeem has been named Defensive Player of the
Year twice, and has been named to the all Defensive Team five times.
Man, you've been listening to Tommy Heinsohn too long.
Re.
> Ewing has outplayed Hakeem in this series.
Which series have you been watching? The Knicks are using four different
guys to cover Hakeem (Ewing, Smith, Mason, and Oakley) because Patrick
can't keep up with him. And still Hakeem is the leading scorer in
the series. At the other end of the floor, Hakeem is always guarding
Ewing, and as a result Ewing is really struggling with his shot, going
8 for 28, and then 9 for 29 in games 3 and 4. In game 6 Patrick did
not score a single point in the fourth quarter.
Ken
|
| 10.2199 | Awards? Who cares? | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Tue Jun 21 1994 23:18 | 20 |
| >center. In contrast, Hakeem has been named Defensive Player of the
>Year twice, and has been named to the all Defensive Team five times.
You're really hung up on this award thing, aren't you? Awards are for
visibility seekers, not winners. Same as stats. Hakeem has consistantly
let guys like Mason and Smith post-up and score. Ewing has *stuffed*
Thorpe, Hakeem and Horry almost every time they come inside. Most of
Hakeem's points have come from turn-around fade-away jump shots. From
a team perspective that's bad news - who's getting the boards when he
misses? Oak and Patricia, that's who. Look at the rebound line. Ewing
has dominated inside, Hakeem has shown brilliant outside moves. I'll
take Ewing. And I'll also take Chief for the same reasons.
And to all your awards I say BFD! The only award that counts is a
ring.
If Hakeem comes up big in game 7 I'll take it all back. ;)
josh
|
| 10.2200 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Wed Jun 22 1994 00:05 | 6 |
| re: .2197
with the exception of game 5, Olajowan has been outplaying Ewing.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2201 | No debate outside Boston | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 22 1994 14:24 | 19 |
| After the Parrish-Jabbar debate started last week,I decided to talk to
some friends and acquaintances whose basketball knowledge I respect.
The four people I talked to were unanimous that Parrish shouldn't even
be mentioned with Jabbar. So I must conclude that the reason there is
even any debate about this is:
Boston fans
1)Have real short memories
2)Are far more biased and provincial than they would like to admit.
I give Parrish one thing over Kareem: He is been far more effective in
his late 30's than Jabbar,far less of a dropoff,but that's like saying
Ryan is better than Seaver or Palmer because he kept going longer at a
higher rate.
I will give one thing
|
| 10.2202 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed Jun 22 1994 15:01 | 34 |
| Re.
> Hakeem has consistantly let guys like Mason and Smith post-up and
> score. Ewing has *stuffed* Thorpe, Hakeem and Horry almost every
> time they come inside.
Hakeem has been covering Ewing, not Mason or Smith. Those guys are being
covered by Horry. As for the job Hakeem is doing on Ewing, other than
the fifth game he has made him look terrible. In Game 6, Ewing shot
6 for 20; Game 4, 8 for 28; Game 3, 9 for 29. For the series, Ewing is
shooting 35%! For a big man that stinks!
On the other hand, Hakeem is averaging 27 ppg while shooting 52% from the
floor.
> Look at the rebound line. Ewing has dominated inside,
The reason that Ewing is getting more boards than Hakeem is because of
the matchups. Riley is saving Ewing's ass by using Oakley, Mason, and
Smith to cover Olajuwon for much of the game while Ewing gets the easier
assignment of covering Thorpe, Horry, or Hererra. He damn well should
be getting a lot of rebounds if he's boxing out those smaller guys. On
the other end of the floor, Hakeem is not getting a lot of defensive
boards because he is always guarding Patrick who plays almost exclusively
way out on the perimeter. You're not exactly in good position to get
the bound if you're guarding your man 20 feet from the hoop. Ewing has
been afraid to take the ball to the basket because he knows Hakeem will
make him eat it. As Charles Oakley said yesterday, "We tell Patrick to
take the ball to the basket, but he won't listen. He just wants to take
those fade-away perimeter shots and then complain that he's been fouled.
He should know by now that they don't call fouls on fade-away 20-footers
in the playoffs."
Ken
|
| 10.2203 | not playing Hakeem straight up has increased his blocks as well | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Wed Jun 22 1994 15:43 | 5 |
|
excellent analysis Ken. I didn't tag him with the nickname Patricia for
nothing.........
;^)
|
| 10.2204 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | naelC s'tI, doM yrroW t'noD | Wed Jun 22 1994 16:13 | 12 |
| >> Awards are for visibility seekers, not winners.
Incorrect. Awards are something that is given to folks that deserve
them and most of the time they have nothing to say about it. As far as
winning is concerned, well, this has more to do with a team effort. Let
Pat play the Houston team by himself and see what happens. He needs the
other four to do their part to be successful. The same goes for any
team. Pat has been trashed in this series by a better center but his
teammates have been able to come through at critical times. Without
them he might as well put jam in his pockets cause he would be toast.
|
| 10.2205 | Interesting match-up | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Wed Jun 22 1994 16:20 | 24 |
|
This Hakeem/Ewing thread is what's great about sports -
totally different views of the same events ;)
A few valid points, LK, but....you're making more of a case
for Riley than Hakeem. Q: Why has Thorpe totally disappeared as
a factor in the series? A: Because Patrick has stuffed him (and
the rest of the Rockets at the same time). Hakeem is shooting
fade-away jumpers, and the rest of the team is terrified to go
anywhere near the hoop. Only Herrara has been able to shoot a
lay-up or 2. Everything is coming from outside. The guards
manage to drive the lane once or twice a game. The Knicks,
meanwhile, are getting points from Mason, Oakley, Harper, Smith
and Starks and a lot of them are inside. Patrick doesn't need
to score if the other guys get 3 feet from the hoop. And time
after time Hakeem gets the ball right under the basket and can't
score - most of the time he's making sloppy passes to guys at
the 3-point line.
Great coaching by Riley, great defense by Ewing. I did not think
he had it in him, he has impressed me. Hakeem, on the other hand,
should be playing SF (but he's a *wonderful* athlete)!
josh
|
| 10.2206 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Wed Jun 22 1994 16:26 | 9 |
| 10.2207 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed Jun 22 1994 17:15 | 4 |
| Well, Josh, I'll certainly agree with you on one point -- Riley has
outcoached Tomjanovich.
Ken
|
| 10.2208 | Basis | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Wed Jun 22 1994 17:31 | 12 |
| 10.2209 | | ELMAGO::BENBACA | naelC s'tI, doM yrroW t'noD | Wed Jun 22 1994 21:52 | 10 |
| >> Hakeem is shooting fade away jumpers...
So is Patrick and he ain't hitting them that well. If it weren't for
that high arching shot he would be shooting even worse than he is, on
account Hakeem would make him eat it. If I had to choose a fadeaway in
this series it would be Hakeems and not Patricks. The only other move
Pat has is the charge to the middle where he sticks his shoulder into
Hakeems gut. Got a picture of it. Charge all the way.
|
| 10.2210 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 23 1994 04:30 | 13 |
| Home team has now won the last 20 game 7's; an amazing statistic.
Houston guards had a great game 7, Knicks guards - especailly Starks -
had a very forgettable game.
re: many many back
Neither team scored 100 points in a game in this series.
MikeC - what are the final standings?
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2211 | | KALI::MORGAN | | Thu Jun 23 1994 12:33 | 6 |
| Actually, Derek Harper had another very good game. Starks sucked
though. Akeem came through when the money was on the line. Otis
Thorpe was a big dissapointment to me in this series.
Steve
|
| 10.2212 | LAme serires and even worse celebration... | BUMP::MMARLAND | | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:06 | 13 |
| I only watched a few minutes of the post game celebration, but it was lame,
All the players and coaches hugging or looking for their wives and kids...
Give me a break. Looking at Hakeem you couldn't tell if he won or lost. Bring
back the days when the fans ran onto the court in melee and the players doused
each other in champagne.
Congrats though to the Rockets, but the overall play in the series was lame.
Why did Starks continue to shoot, the hell with ego's sit him down or make him
pass to other players. There 11 other guys on the team John.
mm
|
| 10.2213 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:12 | 5 |
| Boy, Pat Riley earned his geenyus title lasted night. Totally brilliant to keep
giving the rock to Starks, even though he was rushing every shot, and couldn't
throw the ball into the ocean.
Yesiree, brilliant. Reminds me of Dean Smif going to Rick Fox...
|
| 10.2214 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:25 | 7 |
| heck, and I disagee with you on Riley, but Starks was missing open
shots when he wasn't being rushed; bad coaching decision once there
were 4-5 minutes gone in the 4th. Bring Blackman in and let 'em shoot a
few.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2215 | Poor coaching by Riley | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:37 | 15 |
| Did Riley's stubborness in insisting on keeping Starks in the lineup
despite the fact he wasn't even coming close and wasn't going to stop
shooting cost the Knicks the title? Maybe not, but it did cost them
any chance of winning Game 7. Starks never gave the team a chance to
win. Riley's team, team, team preaching must not have connected with
Starks in the 4th quarter. Any chance the Knickls had was lost every
time Starks hurled up another futile three.
Congrats go out to Derek Harper, who was the Knicks MVP in this series.
He and Doc Rivers (if Doc comes back 100%) will make up a savvy and
dangerous backcourt for New York nexted season, provided Riley sits
Starks. As for Davis and Blackman, why not at least try one of them
with 7 or 8 minutes left in the game?
NAZZ
|
| 10.2216 | Pat Riley Exodus Watch, Day 1... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | Indians in '94 | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:38 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2217 | Not that Id have him change 1 thing | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:38 | 15 |
| I think the reason why it wasnt as exciting on the court is this new
David Stern at center court after the game crap... Do the presentation
in the locker room... They didnt want to get champaigne on the court
that was very dissapointing...
How about that class act riley he was in the locker room before the
final buzzer sounded... What a scum bag.. You blew it riley you let
RUDY T OUT COACH YOU BIG BIG HUGE HUGE TIME....
I would have sat starks in the 3rd went with blackmon/Davis/Anthony
ALOT MORE and see what they could do.. STARKS WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE
ANSWER.. I think Riley realized that on the plane... "OH SHIT I HAVE
2 OTHER GUARDS ON THE BENCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Mab
|
| 10.2218 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Thu Jun 23 1994 13:56 | 9 |
| Since they are my two favorite targets on the Knicks, I'll choose to beleive
that Riley told Starks to keep shooting, and that Starks shot was off because
of the chicken bone in his throat.
If I were Ewing or Oakley, or Derek Harper for that matter, I'd not be a happy
camper around now. I think that the Knicks could have come back without the
three pointers, if they had established some defensive momentum.
=bob=
|
| 10.2219 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Thu Jun 23 1994 14:22 | 2 |
| Wow, 10:20 and no word from Doc...
|
| 10.2220 | | MKFSA::LONG | and the thunder roooooooolllls.... | Thu Jun 23 1994 15:17 | 6 |
| The good Dr 00:00 must be relieved now that the Rockets were
able to loosen the choke chain that the Oilers placed around
the city of Houston.
billl
|
| 10.2221 | wasn't starks - oakley should have been in street clothes | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Thu Jun 23 1994 15:53 | 10 |
| as usual I watched a different game. The knick "goat" was Oakley but
since his problems were obviously physical I can't blame him any more
than bill buckner. But Riley had to have the guts to remove him and go
with what he had healthy.
And Charles Smith's night and today's schedule is exactly the same
whether he lost or won; he stunk with pittsburgh in college and could
never perform in big games and never will.
this game was lost in last 6 minutes of 3rd period.
|
| 10.2222 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Thu Jun 23 1994 16:01 | 9 |
| Ahh... The Knicks escorted the CHAMPS to the big dance... After the
Crazed One spat upon the three time world champion Chicago Bulls, I
prayed the Knicks wouldn't get.. just... one...
They are kissin' their sister.
Great job Rockets. It was a great finale to the World Cup game...
Chip_GSH_Bach
|
| 10.2223 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Thu Jun 23 1994 16:29 | 5 |
| Without Riley the Knickerbockers would have not even made it
to the Eastern Conference Championship. I still think the guy is
an A-Hole, but he's a very good coach.
/Don
|
| 10.2224 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Thu Jun 23 1994 17:35 | 46 |
| Here it is... warning pull up the boots... #don
"(in honor of yet another pounding he's taken at the
hands of The Doctor)", has allegedly gone silent about some bet or
something. He's accused of pulling an ACC Chris today. He wants
a trial.
From: US4RMC::"George_Brooks
To: UNIXML::"ashe@hannah.enet.dec.com"@lotus.com
CC:
Last night saw a triumph of the human spirit. A sublime extension of mind,
body and will on the part of Hakeem Olajuwon, as in true WILTian fashion,
he yet again dominated his more ballyhooed foe in the pivot, the gallant
but outclassed Patrick Ewing. His MVP performance on both ends of the court
suprised no one. Yet it still amazed everyone. yes, his place on the
Pantheon of WILT, and above all others save he, is now assured.
It saw a battered, but game Kenny Smith regain his shooting touch in the
crucible of Game 7 competition. He calculated vectors under pressure that
allowed him to nail a clutch three that surely had Willie Mosconi
smiling from that great Pool Hall In The Sky. Moreover, he balanced his
offensive renewal with a defensive effort against John, that was Stark in
its outcome.
Yea, verily last night proved to the world what the Doctor and other
intellgent men of his ilk knew aleady, that the Rockets had Champeenship
Mettle. MAINhood.
Mainhood and grace that manifested itself in the low-friction moves of
Robert Horry, the power of Hakeem and Otis "The Hammer" Thorpe, and in the
clutch play of Vernon Maxwell. Truly these warriors, and other valient
troops named Herrera, Cassell, Bullard, Cureton, Elie, Gent and Brooks,
and that general Rudy, who outcoached Riley to a "T" - they swelled the
hearts of the faithful, crushed the hopes of the Jihad, and placed the
trophy in the only city worthy of it :
HOUSTON.
All hail them now.
Thank you,
Dr. Midnight
|
| 10.2225 | | MKFSA::LONG | and the thunder roooooooolllls.... | Thu Jun 23 1994 17:47 | 5 |
| Comparing basketball to pool?? Now that's original, dumb,
but original.
billl
|
| 10.2226 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Thu Jun 23 1994 17:53 | 2 |
| I was gonna send Doc mail, but couldn't find his address. Tell him I
said congrats and about time one of this many teams won something.
|
| 10.2227 | | CAPNET::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Asia/Pacific Marketing | Thu Jun 23 1994 17:55 | 4 |
| Has anyone ever seen JD and Dr. 00:00 together? Sounds an awful lot
like JD's Ranger trash.
Mark.
|
| 10.2228 | hmmmmmm | MKFSA::LONG | and the thunder roooooooolllls.... | Thu Jun 23 1994 18:02 | 12 |
| >> Has anyone ever seen JD and Dr. 00:00 together?
That's a good one!!! I've never seen them both at the same place
at the same time, but if they are the same person he's got one hell
of a makeup routine!
Come to think of it they were both at the Pat's Day Sox game,
but they were each either getting beer, or giving it back,
when the other was sitting down.
billl
|
| 10.2229 | The great menace has been averted... | NAC::G_WAUGAMAN | Valdera-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha | Thu Jun 23 1994 18:04 | 9 |
|
> Has anyone ever seen JD and Dr. 00:00 together? Sounds an awful lot
> like JD's Ranger trash.
But at least we didn't have to read JD's Ranger trash in behalf of
the Knicks, too...
glenn
|
| 10.2230 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Thu Jun 23 1994 18:07 | 6 |
| Ok, explain this to me.
The Hawks have traded Roy Hinson to the Bucks for Ken Norman. Norman
averaged double figures ppg last year. Roy Hinson hasn't played a
minute in 3 or 4 years, but must still be under contract. Are things
with the salary cap THAT bad?
|
| 10.2231 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Temptation is a Gun | Thu Jun 23 1994 18:08 | 5 |
|
I was definately scratching my head about that one too Walt. It's either
salary cap or Norman is the biggest troublemaker/headcase on the planet...
mike
|
| 10.2232 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Thu Jun 23 1994 18:46 | 7 |
| I figured it was a typo in the transaction section until I read
the blurb about it. I can't believe Hinson was still on a roster.
Wonder if the Hawks offered him to the Sixers for the number one
pick. It worked before...
Mike
|
| 10.2233 | With Big Dog coming, no room for Norman | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Jun 23 1994 18:48 | 8 |
| No doubt it's both. Norman complained constantly this past season
about lack of playing time. He's got a hefty 5-year contract, and
he figures to have even less playing time next season with Robinson
coming aboard. This is a way of getting rid of him and his longterm
contract while maintaining a large salary slot to use in signing
either a free agent or one of their two first round picks.
Ken
|
| 10.2234 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Like A Moth To A Flame | Thu Jun 23 1994 19:09 | 13 |
| 10.2235 | | CAMONE::WAY | Real men use iron sights | Thu Jun 23 1994 19:16 | 1 |
| Doc ManyZeroes -- master of revisionist history....8^)
|
| 10.2236 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Fri Jun 24 1994 04:35 | 1 |
| I SAID allegedly...
|
| 10.2237 | Go Bucks!! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri Jun 24 1994 12:49 | 4 |
| How much is Robinson asking anyway? Will he be signable by the
Bucks?
Tony
|
| 10.2238 | Rumor du jour | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon Jun 27 1994 14:03 | 12 |
| Heard on the radion this weekend that there is a deal brewing between Washington
(#8 pick?) and Detriot (#3).
o Washington sends Don McLean and their #1 to Detroit, and then use the
pick on Grant Hill.
o Detroit then pick Juwan Howard with #8, grabbing the local guy.
Interesting deal. Depending on how good an NBA player Hill turns out to be,
it seems that the Pistons are making out better here.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2239 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Mon Jun 27 1994 14:31 | 15 |
|
Yabbut today's Woostah telegram is reporting that there's a very
high probability that Glenn Robinson (pro'lly the #1 pick) will not
be in attendance at the draft Wednesday night. Seems his no-show is
geared around some kind of protest against the legality of the draft
and the salary cap.
imo, a nice hollow gesture - he's still gonna get his mega-millions....
I remain,
wondering at what number I'll be drafted
;^)
Kev
|
| 10.2240 | | GRANPA::DFAUST | Bad Things, man... | Mon Jun 27 1994 14:44 | 6 |
| Washington's 1st pick is no.5. If they expect to get Howard with the
8th pick, they will end up disappointed, becasue the Sixers will take
him at 6.
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.2241 | "You want MacLean? We'll fly him up to Detroit this morning!!!" | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Mon Jun 27 1994 14:52 | 33 |
|
>Interesting deal. Depending on how good an NBA player Hill turns out to be,
>it seems that the Pistons are making out better here.
No way!!! What the matter with Detroit? Is Hill's reputation too
clean for them??? If Washington (drafting #5 BTW) can move up two
spots by giving up JUST Don MacLean, they should do it quick. Before
the Piston's come to their senses!!
MacLean is a career backup small forward who does one thing, score.
He doesn't rebound. His D is terrible. I don't remember him being much
of a passer (Hell, I don't remember him passing!!!:-) And I'm not
convinced is can duplicate last year's performace. More likely he
will return to mediocrity.
At #3 the Bullets wil get either Hill or, if Dallas gets nervous,
Jason Kidd. Either would be an excellent choice for Washington. Hill
plays SF opposite Gugs, and Cheaney plays SG (Chapman should be dealt.)
Or Kidd allows them to finally replace ancient Micheal Adams at PG,
make Cheaney the SF, and hope that Chapman continues to improve at
SG.
At #5 the Bullets have a tough choice. Either they take Howard
and play him out-of-position (OOP) at Center, or Howard at PF and Gugs
OOP at SF. Or they take a *BIG* gamble on Wright, Montross, or Dare
at Center.
I'm assuming the T'woofs did the smart thing and drafted Marshall
at #4. Why I'm making that assumption, I don't know!!! :-)
JimH
|
| 10.2242 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon Jun 27 1994 14:53 | 3 |
| re: .2240
Yabut does Washington have the 8th pick? I may have that part wrong.
|
| 10.2244 | Still hoping the bulls do something before Wednesday | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Mon Jun 27 1994 15:15 | 9 |
| He could be the steal, I see many teams attempting trades with
Detroit as the #3 spot could be the steal of the draft. Remember
when Hakeem went #1,the #3 in that draft was a pretty good steal :-)
I wish Chicago had some trade bait they could work out with Detroit
Maybe Kukoc/Grant/Williams(?) for Detroit 1st/2nd rnd picks :-)
\
We can Dream...
MairB
|
| 10.2245 | who will milwaukee deal with? | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Mon Jun 27 1994 15:34 | 17 |
| The problem with Robinson is that he will be very expensive. For
Milwaukee that is a problem espcially since they have Vinnie Baker. I
do agree that Hill could be #1 in many drafts and Kidd and Donyell are
exceptional picks.
If I were Celtics I would try very hard to trade down with Milwaukee
right now. For example, 94-#1 (9), 95-#1 plus a player with perhaps a
player back (all sal.cap here). Would I go furthur, yes perhaps a swap
of 96 #1s (at Mil.'s option).
Dave Gavitt would have done nothing prior to this draft, ML I don't
know. Celtics haven't really gone out on a limb since drafting russell
in '57; most of the deals after that were Red bilking some neophyte.
Now the C's have to gamble and realize that they have nothing to lose
anyway.
bilthe
|
| 10.2246 | Hill | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Mon Jun 27 1994 16:10 | 18 |
| > Don't be all that surprised if Grant Hill goes number one. I
> won't. Not only is the kid a great leader, a great player and
> a smart cookie but he has the bloodlines.
I like Hill better than Robinson also. Robinson has proven he can
score, and little else. Hill has proven he can do everything necessary
to win. I would put Robinson 3rd, behind Hill and Kidd (shows how
much *I* know ;).
On a slightly positive note, Stern in his halftime interview during
game 7 nearly committed the league to enforcing the rules nexted
year, saying he wanted to "create some space" so that players could
show their skills. He *definitely* committed the league to stopping
the blatant taunting and bad sportmanship, saying it was "bad for kids".
There's always hope.
josh
|
| 10.2247 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | one bourbon,one scotch, and one beer | Mon Jun 27 1994 16:10 | 8 |
|
I don't think Robinson is the player that will immediately turn a team
around, and am not sure the CEltics should trade that much for him.
Why not wait a year, see if a true franchise player emerges, and do
make a deal then?
brews
|
| 10.2248 | Big Dog best since Michael, IMHO | ROCK::MURPHY | Good News for Mets - Can't finish 7th! | Mon Jun 27 1994 16:52 | 20 |
| Apparently, you weren't watching the same Robinson as me. He had a
bundle of steals in the Tourney. His defense is stellar. He is also a
very solid rebounder, and has good court vision, although he had little
around him to pass to. He is much better than Webber, and I think
Webber has turned out quite nicely, thank you.
Maybe it's just because I've been watching more B10 hoop than you guys,
but IMHO he would have been the number one pick if he had left college
LAST year (over Webber/Hardaway/Bradley). The team that has him, will
be a contender very quickly. Hopefully they can put enough around hime
so he doesn't burn out from the season (ala. Jordan in the mid-80's).
Murph
>I like Hill better than Robinson also. Robinson has proven he can
>score, and little else. Hill has proven he can do everything necessary
>to win. I would put Robinson 3rd, behind Hill and Kidd (shows how
>much *I* know ;).
|
| 10.2249 | let's see if he reads this note | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Mon Jun 27 1994 16:59 | 17 |
| Well it looks like sharone wright is the leader among the big men and
that celts may have a dare/montross choice or at least one of the two
to pick.
Dare's big problem is physical. Can he become athletic enough to
compete in nba and improve his skills in the meantime - eg how is his
head, truly.
Montross has looked better lately from my reading and did show good
potential in 92-93 but he is iffy. Too bad we can't get an honest,
informed appraisal from someone in this notefile who has followed north
caroline closely.
there are the two or three freshman centers (Camby) who could make an
impact. If I could get Robinson right now any way I'd jump. This
downgrade of him looks to me like a media thing, he is super bluechip
from what I've seen of him.
|
| 10.2250 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Jun 27 1994 17:12 | 9 |
| Robinson will be the number one and he will be great. He can do everything.
It's unheard of for a player to put up his kinds of numbers (30ppg, 10 rpg)
while playing in the best conference in the country.
I suspect that Detroit would only do the rumored deal with Washington if
Dallas takes Hill instead of Kidd. Then it would make sense for Detroit
to take Howard and McClean instead of another point guard.
Ken
|
| 10.2251 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Mon Jun 27 1994 17:18 | 2 |
| Meanwhile, Scottie Pippen is on the block and rumored to be going to
several places.
|
| 10.2252 | Not Enough | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Mon Jun 27 1994 17:20 | 10 |
| As A Bucks fan, I don't think the Celtics have anything to
offer them for the rights to Robinson. Wishful thinking.
I do think its possible though for the Celtics to remain
a lottery lock for one to two more years and stand a real
chance at getting Camby or Griffith which may be what they
really want all along.
Hill looks intriguing to me, but I hope they take Robinson.
Tony
|
| 10.2253 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Mon Jun 27 1994 17:28 | 14 |
| | Meanwhile, Scottie Pippen is on the block and rumored to be going to
| several places.
I know where I'd send him...
If Milwaulkee takes Hill instead of Robinson, it will be because they believe he
is better, not because of money. In this day and age, it is implied that the
firsted draft choice will get the most money.
Hill is climbing (M.Leary memorial pun) due to his character as much as his
ability. I didn't see that much of Robinson, but I think Hill will be a solid
NBA player, maybe an all-star, but not a superstar.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2254 | Haven't seen him enough | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Mon Jun 27 1994 21:07 | 9 |
| > Maybe it's just because I've been watching more B10 hoop than you guys,
That's probably it. I saw a lot of Jason Kidd lasted year, and
I believe he's the best PG since Magic. And I saw Hill shut
down Robinson in the NCAA. For Robinson to be successful in the
NBA someone has to pass him the ball. Hill and Kidd will go get
the ball for themselves. Robinson could end up like Mashburn.
josh
|
| 10.2255 | | METSNY::francus | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Mon Jun 27 1994 21:13 | 7 |
|
> Robinson could end up like Mashburn.
which is why Dallas should take Kidd.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2256 | My .02 | ROCK::MURPHY | Good News for Mets - Can't finish 7th! | Mon Jun 27 1994 21:17 | 23 |
| >And I saw Hill shut down Robinson in the NCAA.
Aside from the rumor that Robinson was hurt/sick vs. Duke...
I picked Purdue to win their first two games on his talent alone.
Then to win the third (more difficult opponent) game on his talent
alone. I then picked them to lose the 4th game (Duke) against a
very tough opponnent simply because the Dog would be worn out
from having to do everything.
Outside of Robinson, Purdue had nothing but role players, and they
won the Big 10 - over Michigan and Indiana, balanced, deep teams.
>For Robinson to be successful in the
>NBA someone has to pass him the ball.
Even the Bucks can supply better that Matt Waddell.
Robinson >>>>>> Mashburn.
Murph
|
| 10.2257 | Robinson = Bias | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Mon Jun 27 1994 21:22 | 11 |
| > which is why Dallas should take Kidd.
Dallas won't get a sniff of Robinson at #2; I wouldn't blame anyone for
taking Kidd but he's no magic. Robinson is a lock for 2000 dream team.
Although there is one problem and that is how does a multi-millionaire
ever realize his true potential. Look at writers for example who
strike it rich with early books and movies: they often stagnate (James
Jones of From Here to Eternity fame comes to mind, Joseph Heller C-22)
billthe
|
| 10.2258 | a magical purchase? | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Tue Jun 28 1994 16:50 | 11 |
|
Yabbut although the Woostah paper didn't have much of the details,
it reported that Magic Johnson's buying ~10% ownership in da Lakers.
Anybody got any more nooz on this?
I remain,
like.....curious
Kev
|
| 10.2259 | | FRETZ::HEISER | ugadanodawonumadja | Tue Jun 28 1994 17:32 | 1 |
| 10% with the potential for more in the future.
|
| 10.2260 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Tue Jun 28 1994 18:30 | 2 |
| Possible front office position too...
|
| 10.2261 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 30 1994 03:31 | 4 |
| first picks go as expected. Robinson, Kidd, Hill, Marshall
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2262 | 1st round summary | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Thu Jun 30 1994 15:59 | 38 |
|
Yabbut here's the results of da 1st round
1. Milwaukee Glenn Robinson F Purdue
2. Dallas Jason Kidd G California
3. Detroit Grant Hill F Duke
4. Minnesota Donyell Marshall F Connecticut
5. Washington Juwan Howard F Michigan
6. Philadelphia Sharone Wright C/F Clemson
7. LA Clippers Lamond Murray F California
8. Sacramento Brian Grant F Xavier
9. Boston Eric Montross C North Carolina
10. LA Lakers Eddie Jones F Temple
11. Seattle Charles Rogers C Tennessee St.
12. Miami Khalid Reeves G Arizona
13. Denver Jalen Rose G Michigan
14. New Jersey Yinka Dare C George Washington
15. Indiana Eric Piatkowski F Nebraska
16. Golden State Clifford Rozier C Louisville
17. Portland Aaron McKie G Temple
18. Milwaukee Eric Mobley C Pittsburgh
19. Dallas Tony Dumas G Missouri-Kansas City
20. Philadelphia B.J. Tylor G Texas
21. Chicago Dickey Simpkins F Providence
22. San Antonio Bill Curley F Boston College
23. Phoenix Wesley Person F Auburn
24. New York Monty Williams F Notre Dame
25. LA Clippers Greg Minor G Louisville
26. New York Charlie Ward G Florida State
27. Orlando Brooks Thompson G Oklahoma State
I remain,
remembering that Shawnell got drafted before Daimon Bailey too!
Kev
|
| 10.2263 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 30 1994 16:08 | 4 |
| did Bailey get drafted??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2264 | | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Thu Jun 30 1994 16:18 | 3 |
| yes,
Indiana, 2nd Round
|
| 10.2265 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | NY Rangers 1994 Stanley Cup Champions | Thu Jun 30 1994 16:26 | 8 |
| that makes sense.
of course all the hype about him before he even started at Indiana U
would have made you believe that he would be the #1 pick after his
sophomore year of college
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2266 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Thu Jun 30 1994 16:33 | 12 |
|
Yabbut and by the way, after Bailey was taken, there were only 2 other
draft picks to go.
The crowd in Indiana went nuts after his name was announced.
Any reason why Eric Monstross wasn't at the arena lasted night?
I remain,
sorta satisfied with the way it was broadcast on tee vee
Kev
|
| 10.2267 | Oh Brother | OPTION::LAZARUS | David Lazarus @KYO,323-4353 | Thu Jun 30 1994 17:03 | 11 |
| Wesley person,Phoenix' #1 joins his brother Chuck as the fourth brother
pair to be drafted #1.
How many of the others can you name? Answer below
Jim and John Paxson
Bernard and Albert King
Horace and Harvey Grant
|
| 10.2268 | Not saying the guy has no foot speed but... | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Jun 30 1994 17:39 | 8 |
| Re.
> Any reason why Eric Monstross wasn't at the arena lasted night?
He decided to jog over to the arena from the hotel ....but didn't
get there in time.
Ken
|
| 10.2269 | van arsdales fourth bros? | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come to Daddy | Thu Jun 30 1994 18:19 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2270 | another | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 30 1994 18:20 | 1 |
| Gus & Ray Williams
|
| 10.2271 | half brothers | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 30 1994 18:21 | 1 |
| Eric Montross and Greg Kite
|
| 10.2272 | Congrats to the NEW carnac of Sprots NAZZ | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Jeff Riggen "Sales Support" I think ? | Thu Jun 30 1994 19:32 | 34 |
| Exactly batting .500 in the first round
Note 10.1902
TNPUBS::NAZZARO "Will edit for food"
23-MAY-1994 14:50
FIRST ROUND
1. Milwaukee - Glen Robinson 6-8 F Purdue Check
2. Dallas - Jason Kidd 6-4 G Cal Check
3. Detroit - Grant Hill 6-7 G/F Duke Check
4. Minnesota - Eric Montross 7-0 C North Carolina -----
5. Washington - Juwan Howard 6-9 F Michigan Check
6. Philadelphia - Sharone Wright 6-11 F/C Clemson Check
7. L.A. Clippers - Lamond Murray 6-7 G/F Cal Check
8. Sacramento - Yinka Dare 7-1 C George Washington -----
9. Boston - Donyell Marshall 6-9 F UConn -----
10. L.A. Lakers - Clifford Rozier 6-9 F Louisville -----
11. Seattle (from Charlotte) - Wesley Person 6-6 G Auburn -----
12. Miami - Khalid Reeves 6-1 G Arizona Check
13. Denver - Jalen Rose 6-8 G Michigan Check
14. New Jersey - Aaron McKie 6-5 G Temple -----
15. Indiana - Eric Piatkowski 6-7 F Nebraska Check
16. Golden State (from Cleveland) - Jim McIlvaine 7-1 C Marquette -----
17. Portland - Carlos Rogers 6-11 F/C Tennessee St. -----
18. Milwaukee (from Orlando) Eric Mobley 6-11 C Pitt Check
19. Dallas (from Golden State) - B.J. Tyler 6-1 G Texas -----
20. Philadelphia (from Utah) Eddie Jones 6-6 G/F Temple -----
21. Chicago - Dickie Simpkins 6-10 F/C Providence Check
22. San Antonio - Billy Curley 6-9 F Boston College Check
23. Phoenix - Voshon Lenard 6-4 G Minnesota -----
24. New York - Monty Williams 6-7 F Notre Dame Check
25. Atlanta - Charles Claxton 7-0 C Georgia -----
26. New York (from Houston) - Derrick Phelps 6-3 G North Carolina -----
27. Orlando (from Seattle) - Deon Thomas 6-8 F Illinois -----
|
| 10.2273 | NAZZ bested Peter Vecsey who was at .444 | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 30 1994 19:41 | 45 |
| Article 96370 of rec.sport.basketball.pro:
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!decwrl!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!cmcl2!liu!johneco
From: johneco@cns.nyu.edu (John Econopouly)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Pete Vecsey's MOCK DRAFT +
Whatever your opinions of Vecsey's persona, there is no doubt
that he is the ultimate NBA insider. Here are his picks.
[] = Vecsey's comments. {}=mine
*1.Milwaukee Glenn Robinson
*2.Dallas Jason Kidd [Passing on Hill will be one of dumbest moves ever]
*3.Detroit Grant Hill
*4.Minnesota Donyell Marshall
*5.Washington Juwan Howard [trying to trade up to picks #2,3]
*6.Philadelphia Sharone Wright
*7.Clippers Lamond Murray [will trade Jackson and #25 for Pooh, Sealy, and #15]
*8.Sacramento Brian Grant [looking to trade pick, want a center]
*9.Boston Eric Montross [Auerbachs choice. staff wants Rose]
10.LA Lakers Carlos Rogers [Person, McKie, Piatkowski also high - will trade
Peeler or Christie]
11.Seattle Jalen Rose [Eddie Jones if Rose gone. Looking at trades - Pippen,
PJ Brown, Doug Smith, Rodman all offered]
12.Miami Eddie Jones [prefer Rogers. next Piatkowski] {not Khalid?}
13.Cleveland Khalid Reeves [will trade pick for Brandon straight up only]
14.New Jersey Wesley Person [else Yinka Dare. signed Sean Higgins]
*15.Indiana Piatkowski {I don't see why they need him...}
16.Golden St. Yinka Dare [else Mobley]
17.Portland Aaron McKey
18.Milwaukee Jim McIlvaine
19.Dallas Dickie Simpkins
*20.Philadelphia BJ Tyler
21.Chicago Greg Minor [or Tony Dumas]
22.San Antonio Charlie Ward [or Howard Eisley; will sign Avery Johnson too]
23.Phoenix Eric Mobley
*24.New York Ward or Eisley [also want Tyler, but would cost both picks to move up]
25.LA Clippers Voshon Leonard
26.New York Dontonio Wingfield
27.Orlando Michael Smith [or Bill Curley. also want Tyler]
Re Pippen: He claims Bulls can take Richmond and #8 from Kings, but prefer
Seattle deal: Kemp, Pierce, & #11 for Pip (and #21)
Remember this guy is just a sports producer and may not be that good. I'll
post my picks before the draft tomorrow. See ya!!
|
| 10.2274 | judge rules no contracts until July 8 | HBAHBA::HAAS | Ate a hot dog, made me feel good | Thu Jun 30 1994 21:02 | 12 |
| I just noticed this and it may have effected some of them would be
trades.
A federal judge has granted a temporary restraining order preventing the
signing of any NBA contracts before a hearing on July 8. The Union has
filed suit against the league, all the teams, the draft, the cap and free
agency. They're negotiating with the league on a new collective
bargaining agreement.
Friday is the day that unsigned players become free agents.
TTom
|
| 10.2275 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri Jul 01 1994 16:19 | 9 |
|
Yabbut so other than da Chief, who else in da league became free
agents toady?
I remain,
sorta a free agent
Kev
|
| 10.2276 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Fri Jul 01 1994 16:46 | 2 |
| Cam Neely.. (same city, different sport)
|
| 10.2277 | list but caint sign | HBAHBA::HAAS | Ate a hot dog, made me feel good | Fri Jul 01 1994 16:52 | 8 |
| Kev,
See .1910. It's got 'em all.
And none of 'em can sign today even if'n they wanted to. The ban on new
contracts was upheld. Nexted date to sign is 7/8.
TTom
|
| 10.2278 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Thu Jul 07 1994 20:28 | 6 |
| Scottie Pippen rumor-du-jour:
Pippen is suposedly goign to Miami for Rony Siekley and ?. Anyone else heard
this one?
=Bob=
|
| 10.2279 | Hope MarB approves of da spelin | SOLANA::MAY_BR | one bourbon,one scotch, and one beer | Fri Jul 08 1994 19:05 | 4 |
|
Heard it on the local Sprots radion yesterday.
brews
|
| 10.2280 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Fri Jul 08 1994 20:00 | 2 |
| Pippen and Perdue for Seikaly and Miner.
|
| 10.2281 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | You gotta put down the duckie... | Fri Jul 08 1994 20:08 | 3 |
| | Pippen and Perdue for Seikaly and Miner.
Rumor or fact?
|
| 10.2282 | | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri Jul 08 1994 20:08 | 6 |
|
Yabbut is that a done deal or just speculation, Walt?
Kev
|
| 10.2283 | collision!!!!;^) | CSTEAM::FARLEY | | Fri Jul 08 1994 20:08 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2284 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Movin' on up, to the east side... | Fri Jul 08 1994 20:15 | 2 |
| Speculation... according to ex(boo) employee Kath Petrie...
|
| 10.2285 | | GRANPA::DFAUST | Bad Things, man... | Mon Jul 11 1994 12:17 | 8 |
| Retired NBA official Earl "Yogi" Strom died Sunday afternoon from brain
cancer. He was 66. While he was still active, he was one of the last
NBA officials who wan't intimidated by the "home court". I always loved
seeing Earl ref the Sixers when they were on the road, but hated to get
him at the Spectrum. He was an all round class act,
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.2286 | Michael Smith? | VAOP28::Rice | It can't happen here | Mon Jul 11 1994 17:54 | 5 |
|
OK, the dust has almost settled, and I only have one question....
did Michael Smith (Prov) get drafted? And if not, why not?
josh
|
| 10.2287 | | MPGS::MCCARTHY | Mike McCarthy SHR3-2/W1 237-2468 | Mon Jul 11 1994 18:10 | 3 |
| I think the Kings took him early in the second round.
Mike
|
| 10.2288 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Melanie is two years old!! | Fri Jul 29 1994 14:01 | 3 |
| Heard something about a Scott Skiles-Spudd Webb trade. Anyone confirm?
=Bob=
|
| 10.2289 | | HANNAH::ASHE | | Fri Jul 29 1994 14:17 | 2 |
| I heard it was 1-for-1...
|
| 10.2290 | Grant to the Magic? | VAOU09::RICE | This, too, will pass... | Fri Jul 29 1994 15:53 | 4 |
| The Skiles-Webb deal makes room on Orlando for Horace Grant. They
will be tough, if Penny continues to develop.
josh
|
| 10.2291 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Wed Aug 03 1994 04:24 | 7 |
| NBA invalidated Grant's contract with Orlando and Green's contract with
Phoenix. Both contracts have escape clauses after the first year; this
type of contract was signed by Chris Dudley with Portland last year and
2 arbitrators upheld the contract.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2292 | trendy | HBAHBA::HAAS | Sorry, wrong species. | Wed Aug 03 1994 13:51 | 8 |
| Lasted year, the arbitrators allowed Dudley's contract but in their
statement they said that they did so because it was a_isolated incident.
They specifically mentioned that if'n this type of contract became a
trend then it would/could be considered a circumvention of the cap rules.
Yesterday's ruling cited these contracts as a said same trend.
TTom
|
| 10.2293 | exi | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Aug 03 1994 14:44 | 1 |
| Isn't the Dominique contract with Celtics a buyout type.?
|
| 10.2294 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Yes I Am !!! | Wed Aug 03 1994 15:22 | 6 |
|
The Dominique Wilkins contract has no escape clause after one year.
'Nique gets 2.8, then 3.64, then 4.73, for a total of 11.17 Million.
Its the standard 30% raise each year.
Ron
|
| 10.2295 | DTII starters | HBAHBA::HAAS | Sorry, wrong species. | Wed Aug 03 1994 15:45 | 7 |
| Meanwhile, Don Nelson has named the starting lineup for DTII tomorrow.
KJ, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Shaq and Sean Kemp.
Nelson said that this is only for the first game and after that he'd
reevaluate.
TTom
|
| 10.2296 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Aug 03 1994 16:57 | 13 |
| The new contracts for Green and Grant do not have an opt-out so they
aren't a trend. The NBA is still smarting from never having one a case
like this. Expect it to continue. The NBA has no right to force a
player to only accept his market value when the player chooses to
consider other factors more important (i.e., a winning team).
>Meanwhile, Don Nelson has named the starting lineup for DTII tomorrow.
>KJ, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Shaq and Sean Kemp.
Glad to see Nelly agrees with me on the best PG in the game. Pretty
good for a guy that was almost left out due to political reasons.
Mike
|
| 10.2297 | source? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Sorry, wrong species. | Wed Aug 03 1994 17:07 | 20 |
| > The new contracts for Green and Grant do not have an opt-out so they
> aren't a trend. The NBA is still smarting from never having one a case
I don't know the details personally but here's the quotes from USA Today
and the local paper:
USA Today: "The NBA TUesday rejected contracts Horace Grant signed
with Orland and A.C. Green signed with Phoenix, because of
one-year out clauses that circumvent the salary limits with a
one-year delay.:
Local: "... Grant's deal ws voided by the NBA - along with a
deal A.C. Green signed with Phoenix - becuase of a
one-year-and-out clause..."
What's your source for this, Mike cause it contradicts everything being
reported - ESPN, CNN, etc. - that consistently mentions the "opt-out"
clause?
TTom
|
| 10.2298 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Aug 03 1994 17:34 | 6 |
| Green and Dudley had the 1-year opt out last year. The NBA lost the
ruling on them. This year Green exercised his option, but still
re-signed with the Suns for more money. The contract he signed last
week doesn't have an opt out. The NBA is complaining about how it was
done, not necessarily the new contract itself. They will lose the
appeal just like they did last year.
|
| 10.2299 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Thu Aug 04 1994 01:51 | 8 |
|
The NBA is complaining that Green signed for 5.2 mil per for 3 years
which is way beyond what his market value is - in other words the flip
side of the coin from last year. Grant has the opt out option in his
contract.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2300 | Vancouver Update | VAOP28::Rice | Up yer Stack | Thu Aug 04 1994 16:34 | 14 |
| The Vancouver Sun announced the short list for the No-Names
thisted morning. The name has already been chosen, but they're
gonna drag it out for another week. They have adopted a Native
Peoples theme, and will hold the press conference to announce the
final choice at the UBC Museum of Anthropology. The short-list:
Grizzlies (represents strength & bravery - I can live with it, barely)
Orcas (top of the food chain - a bit obscure, but I can see a great logo)
Ravens (my favorite from day 1)
GO RAVENS!
josh
|
| 10.2301 | that should be $5M/year | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Aug 04 1994 16:58 | 2 |
| Green's new contract was much larger than that. It was a 5-year deal
worth close to $5M.
|
| 10.2302 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Mets in '94 | Thu Aug 04 1994 17:25 | 6 |
| .2299 did say 5.2 per year.
5 years?? hymm, I read 3 years.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2303 | | CAMONE::WAY | Try 664/668, Neighborhood of The Beast | Thu Aug 04 1994 23:40 | 1 |
| Vancouver's a cool city......
|
| 10.2304 | CANADA GETS PUMPED!!!! | VAOP28::Rice | Up yer Stack | Fri Aug 05 1994 16:06 | 46 |
|
At the risk of boring all you Yanks to tears, I have to take a minute
to rave about the Canadian team at the World Championships.
I watched them beat Angola lasted night by 31 points. Now Angola is
not a threat to win a medal, but they're not bad - I expect them to
beat a few teams teams before they leave. The point is, the Canadian
team is *excellent*, by far the best we have ever put on a court. We
go 12 deep, nobody plays more than 20-25 minutes, and the team is
oriented around defense and passing. Ken Shields is the coach, and he
has Del Harris as assistant. (yes, LK, that's DEL HARRIS ;)
We look like this:
C - Greg Wiltjer - surprisingly good on defense, can board.
Mike Smrek - Kareem's old backup. 31, can still play.
both these guys are 7' and very strong.
PF - JD Jackson - 3-time CIAU PoY, young, runs the floor, tough kid
- Kory Hallas - another tough kid, led the team lasted night w/14 pts.
SF - Rick Fox - finally gets to show his stuff for Canada.
- Keene, 6'9", pounds the offensive boards, runs the floor.
- an african name - drafted by the Pacers this year.
SG - Mackay - mwwob.
- Vickery - 3-point specialist, good d
PG - Nash(?) - Santa Clara's starting PG, going into his junior year.
The kid can PLAY! Penetrates, hits the 3, great d.
- Ron Macmahon - GREAT D! 2nd all-time NCAA steals leader, and a
great playmaker.
Shields has them playing the high-post offense, it's really fun to watch,
my favorite style of play. The PGs are just super, they will hold their own
against anybody, even KJ ;)
We are going for the Silver, folks. The big game is Russia on Saturday.
Argentina is tonight.
> Vancouver's a cool city......
I just moved here lasted year, and I *love* it!
josh
|
| 10.2305 | Vancouver Update | VAOP28::Rice | GRIZZLIES ROOL | Thu Aug 11 1994 22:53 | 11 |
|
In a typical fake-left go-right move by Stu Jackson, the Vancouver
Ravens became the Vancouver Grizzlies today, and deny having EVER
been the Ravens despite reports in NOTES and various NewsGroups.
The best thing I can say about this is that I would rather be a
Grizzlie than a Raptor.
GRRRRRRR!
josh
|
| 10.2306 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Hookin' up words & phrases & clauses | Fri Aug 12 1994 13:51 | 3 |
| I heard some rumor they wanted to be the dragons and were shot down.
Anyone hear this?
|
| 10.2307 | A more reliable sorce available???? | AD::HEATH | It'll be Oct soon and Butch will be gone | Fri Aug 12 1994 14:36 | 8 |
|
I heard the same thing. I think it is just a rumor (I heard it on
Imus) that they dumped the Dragons because the Nets are changing their
names to the &*(^%* Dragons or something like that. I'm pretty sure
he said the Swamp Water Dragons that is why I think it is a rumor.
j/
|
| 10.2308 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Hookin' up words & phrases & clauses | Fri Aug 12 1994 15:34 | 2 |
| I heard Swampdragons but figured it couldn't be serious...
|
| 10.2309 | Strength, Power, Endurance | VAOP28::Rice | GRIZZLIES ROOL | Fri Aug 12 1994 16:18 | 14 |
|
The short-list in Vancouver was Grizzlies, Ravens, and Orcas. Dragons
was rumored (to pull in the Asian crowd) but it was decided that a
Native American theme was more appropriate.
At a news conference held in a Haida longhouse at UBC, Jackson admitted
that he had leaked Ravens lasted week to get people off-track. I like
this guys style. The logo is pretty cool, *much* better than the Barney
clone from our Eastern rivals. It will be on the front of every Frosted
Flakes box as of today, and Grizzlie t-shirts are IN the stores.
Hey Mike, ya got a GIF file yet? ;)
josh
|
| 10.2310 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Aug 12 1994 17:22 | 5 |
| Dragons, Raptors, Dinosaurs, no difference.
>Hey Mike, ya got a GIF file yet? ;)
should arrive any day now...
|
| 10.2311 | fyi | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Aug 18 1994 17:46 | 2 |
| word has it around here that Dennis Rodman is on the block in S.A. and
that Phoenix might make a run for him.
|
| 10.2312 | Back to the PG rathole | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Mon Aug 22 1994 15:52 | 13 |
|
With all this talk about PGs, how come nobody ever mentions
the PG on the greatest team in the history of the universe -
KC Jones? Going by number of rings KC is the best of all time -
and don't tell me it was because of Russell, Magic had Kareem
and couldn't 3-peat, never mind 8 or 10-peat.
I would love to see KC's stats if anybody has them. He won
with defense and intelligence, so his lack of great numbers
is meaningless.
josh
|
| 10.2313 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | QUIET--case study in progress | Mon Aug 22 1994 16:34 | 5 |
| >never mind 8 or 10-peat. <-| THERE THEY BE
|
>I would love to see KC's stats if anybody has them. He won
>with defense and intelligence, so his lack of great
>numbersis meaningless.
|
| 10.2314 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Mon Aug 22 1994 16:38 | 37 |
|
>I would love to see KC's stats if anybody has them.
A quick summary of K.C.'s career...
He played a total of 9 seasons (58-59 thru 66-67). His career
averages:
G FG% FT% Reb/G Ast/G Pts/G
675 38.7 63.2 3.5 4.3 7.4
His numbers were pretty consistent throughout his career, except for
his rookie season when he didn't get a lot of playing time. His highest
scoring average was 9.1 ppg. His best assist season was 6.3 ast/G.
I think it is hard to judge K.C. assist stats. The early part of his
career overlaped with the end of Cousey's (K.C. assist total jumped
about 100/season the year after Couz retired) and the end of his career
coincided with Hondo's early years (Hondo's assists jumped 110 the year
after KC retired and kept rising for about 5 years!) Sam Jones and
Bill Russell also got healthy assis numbers on all those clubs. "Tommy
Gun" Heinsohn seems to have been the black hole back then. Nelson
didn't seem to worry about passing the ball too much either!
Just looking at the stats (My Celtic memories start with the 68-69
season) it is pretty obvious that the Russell Celtic teams didn't run
their offense through the hands of just one player. It must have been
fun watching a team with as many great passers, as those teams seemed
to have had.
Maybe one of the Old-Timers can fill us in. I'm sure NAZZ could fill
this conference with volumes of personal memories! :-)
JimH
|
| 10.2315 | he was a defensive specialist | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon Aug 22 1994 16:53 | 1 |
| How about steals and blocks per game?
|
| 10.2316 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Call her Cleopatra - Queen of Denial | Mon Aug 22 1994 17:01 | 2 |
| Kenny has better stats (smiley goes here)
|
| 10.2317 | | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Mon Aug 22 1994 17:05 | 17 |
| > Just looking at the stats (My Celtic memories start with the 68-69
> season) it is pretty obvious that the Russell Celtic teams didn't run
> their offense through the hands of just one player.
As I remember (I first saw the C's in 1962) the offense ran through Russ
most of the time. The high-post, with a guy like Russ in the middle, was
unstoppable. I'd love to see Nelson play it with Webber this year - he
may be good enough to pull it off. I've also seen Daugherty play it a
little, I'd like to see it more from him, he's a great passer.
It's hard to imagine, in today's game, a team with no one scoring 20 ppg
and no one averaging +5 assists winning a championship. What a team. Of
course, Russ averaged around 20 boards....
I guess they didn't track steals back then?
josh
|
| 10.2318 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | QUIET--case study in progress | Mon Aug 22 1994 17:28 | 5 |
|
In KC's time assists were not given out as generously as they are now
that Nazz is in charge. YOu can't really compare the assist numbers.
brews
|
| 10.2319 | in coming | HBAHBA::HAAS | Sorry, wrong species. | Mon Aug 22 1994 17:35 | 8 |
| > In KC's time assists were not given out as generously as they are now
> that Nazz is in charge. YOu can't really compare the assist numbers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dems fighting words. Also, just venturing a guess, don't hold your breath
on the nexted Nazz Ticket Lottery....
TTom
|
| 10.2320 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Mon Aug 22 1994 17:44 | 17 |
|
>How about steals and blocks per game?
They were not counted back in those days, they first show up
in the 73-74 season. They also didn't didn't start counting Offensive
and Defensive rebounds before that season, only Total rebounds.
And yes, Kenny Anderson does shoot better than K.C. ever did. I
guess we should just send him to Springfield now!!!! :-)
JimH
|
| 10.2321 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon Aug 22 1994 17:56 | 2 |
| who was in charge of getting the ball out of the peach basket in those
days?
|
| 10.2322 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Aug 22 1994 18:22 | 6 |
| K.C. Jones' induction into the Hall was a joke. He was fortunate
to be on a dynasty team surrounded by some great players. But he
was strictly a role player. I can't think of another guard who
made it into the Hall based solely on defensive skills.
Ken
|
| 10.2323 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Member of the Sloan Peterson FanClub | Mon Aug 22 1994 18:33 | 4 |
|
he deserves to be in just for adding to the Lakers and their fans' misery...
;^)
|
| 10.2324 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | QUIET--case study in progress | Mon Aug 22 1994 18:48 | 8 |
| > Dems fighting words. Also, just venturing a guess, don't hold your
> breathon the nexted Nazz Ticket Lottery....
It's a good think this is an electronic medium, rather than face to
face. You'd have a hard time arguing while in a permanent lip-lock
with Nazz's butt. 8^)
brews, stuck in AZ, and too far away to get into the lottery
|
| 10.2325 | KC was a true champion. | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Mon Aug 22 1994 19:31 | 10 |
| >K.C. Jones' induction into the Hall was a joke. He was fortunate
>to be on a dynasty team surrounded by some great players. But he
>was strictly a role player. I can't think of another guard who
>made it into the Hall based solely on defensive skills.
Ken. You live in a dream world. The guy won 2 NCAA championships
and 8 or 9 rings. He won it all EVERY YEAR HE PLAYED! You this
happens by luck or accident? Get real.
josh
|
| 10.2326 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon Aug 22 1994 19:33 | 5 |
| > It's a good think this is an electronic medium, rather than face to
hey watch it, buddy!
Mike (thing/think Police)
|
| 10.2327 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | QUIET--case study in progress | Mon Aug 22 1994 19:35 | 6 |
| > Mike (thing/think Police)
Always figgered you'd get connected to the Thought Police one way or
another. 8^)
brews
|
| 10.2328 | Who has the most rings (Player+Coaching ???) | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Mon Aug 22 1994 19:41 | 5 |
| He won 2 NCAA championships, 9 Rings as a player and how many as a
coach ? He may have more Championship rings then anyone (Or were those
8-9 including the one's he won as a coach ?).
mab
|
| 10.2329 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon Aug 22 1994 19:41 | 4 |
| That's right and don't you forget it! We took the walls down in Europe
so that we could build them here.
The Thought Police
|
| 10.2330 | another ring | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon Aug 22 1994 19:43 | 1 |
| you forgot to include the ring around the collar
|
| 10.2331 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Mon Aug 22 1994 20:01 | 14 |
|
>Ken. You live in a dream world. The guy won 2 NCAA championships
>and 8 or 9 rings. He won it all EVERY YEAR HE PLAYED! You this
>happens by luck or accident? Get real.
Close, but not quite. His lasted year in the NBA was 66-67, the
year the C's lost to Philly in the division finals.
JimH
|
| 10.2332 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Mon Aug 22 1994 20:06 | 19 |
|
>He won 2 NCAA championships, 9 Rings as a player and how many as a
>coach ? He may have more Championship rings then anyone (Or were those
>8-9 including the one's he won as a coach ?).
He has eight rings as an NBA player and two as a Coach.
Russell has 11 rings as a player, plus he was player coach for
two of those teams.
Laker Ken is right, K.C. carried Russell's J.S. right into the
H.O.F., all the way from San Fran U. to Boston! A fact that I'm sure
just drives every Laker fan on the planet right up the wall. Let's make
sure they never forget it!!! :-)
JimH
|
| 10.2333 | | 25022::BREEN | When are ya com'n back?...can't cha hear me | Mon Aug 22 1994 20:27 | 14 |
| kc shut down jerry west in some key games, but not all the time.
he completly lost his ability to shoot from the outside somewhere along
the line; he was a good offensive player at sf.
the key was he was a very smart player among smart players, he
immodestly but accurately was quoted once "I understand the nba game
about as good as anyone". I always took him to mean inner workings of
referees and how to get the most out of them which as a coach one can
hardly argue his celts got about as good from refs as any team (except
when Jake was out there).
And of course when he and sam were the jones boys of johnny most
hyberbole they ran (and ran and ran) when teams were not used to that.
|
| 10.2334 | The Ultimate team player | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Tue Aug 23 1994 15:31 | 16 |
| > Laker Ken is right, K.C. carried Russell's J.S. right into the
> H.O.F., all the way from San Fran U. to Boston! A fact that I'm sure
> just drives every Laker fan on the planet right up the wall. Let's make
> sure they never forget it!!! :-)
Jim - two things:
- NEVER admit that LK is right in public. It only encourages him.
- IMO ya gotta give KC a lot more credit than that. He was the PG on
the greatest team in history! If he hadn't been carrying his weight
he wouldn't have been on the floor. He took over from Cooze and the
team barely hiccuped. How many PGs coulda done that? The guy was some
kinda magic, he always found a way to help his team win.
josh
|
| 10.2335 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Tue Aug 23 1994 16:43 | 10 |
| Re.
> He was the PG on
> the greatest team in history! If he hadn't been carrying his weight
> he wouldn't have been on the floor.
Hey, Kurt Rambis was the starting power forward on 4 Laker championship
teams. Does he get into the Hall? I don't think so.
Ken
|
| 10.2336 | Ask Jerry | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Tue Aug 23 1994 19:03 | 11 |
| >Hey, Kurt Rambis was the starting power forward on 4 Laker championship
>teams. Does he get into the Hall? I don't think so.
To call that "stretching a point" would be understatment. Rambis played
a couple of minutes and sat down for the day. KC ran the team, he had the
ball in his hands on every big play, and there were plenty of 'em as any
Laker fan knows. Ask Jerry West how good he was.
josh
|
| 10.2337 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Tue Aug 23 1994 19:23 | 14 |
|
>Hey, Kurt Rambis was the starting power forward on 4 Laker championship
>teams. Does he get into the Hall? I don't think so.
Hey Ken, If he did as a member of the Celtics, he'ld be a lock
for the HOF!!! :-)
JimH
|
| 10.2338 | Good point ;) | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Tue Aug 23 1994 20:50 | 4 |
| > Hey Ken, If he did as a member of the Celtics, he'ld be a lock
> for the HOF!!! :-)
|
| 10.2339 | Exactly | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Wed Aug 24 1994 13:28 | 3 |
| Thanks for making my point, Jim.
Ken
|
| 10.2340 | Nine rings in nine seasons will never be repeated | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Wed Aug 24 1994 19:46 | 21 |
| First of all, as far as I know Kurt Rambis has not coached a team to
two NBA titles. Kurt also has no (0) NCAA titles. And while 4 NBA
rings in a 13 year career is impressive, Rambis compares more favorably
to Steve Kuberski (two rings in an eight year NBA career as a starting
but limited PF) than he does to KC.
For the last eight years of his career, KC averaged close to 30 minutes
per game and over 30 mpg in the playoffs. Rambis averaged 18 minutes
a game in seven years with the Lakers, but only 15 mpg in the playoffs.
BTW, brews was right when he said assists tabulation has changed.
Since the early 70s, players have been given an assist on a pass that
leads directly to a basket, even if the pass was only an outlet pass to
midcourt and the guy drove the rest of the way. there used to be a
"three step" rule tied to assists, which said no assist could be given
if a guy took either three steps or more than three steps before he
shot. I don't know exactly how the rule read, but the league clarified
it when the revised states in the early 70s to include blocks, steals,
and offensive rebounds.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2341 | magic (with a small m) | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Thu Aug 25 1994 00:28 | 11 |
| > BTW, brews was right when he said assists tabulation has changed.
So how would KC's stats look compared to the other great PGs of his time?
Like Cooze? Or, um, who was that Laker guy????
I'm a big KC fan for the same reason I'm a big Satch Sanders fan. They
always seemed to win, and when it was over you could never quite figure
out why...
josh
|
| 10.2342 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Thu Aug 25 1994 04:27 | 6 |
| re: KC and winning
sure you could figure it out: Russell, Cousy, Havlicek, etc.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2343 | but above all else stood Big Bill!! | CNTROL::CHILDS | Member of the Sloan Peterson FanClub | Thu Aug 25 1994 12:42 | 4 |
|
and of course one TCM's all time favorites: Red Auerbach.........
;^)
|
| 10.2344 | | METSNY::francus | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Thu Aug 25 1994 14:00 | 4 |
| for that cheap shot I expect you to buy me a beer tonight! :-)
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2345 | blah blah blah | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Thu Aug 25 1994 16:42 | 14 |
| Hate to sound like a broken record, and I'll shuddup
after this note, but a basketball team has 5 people
on it, and on a great team they all play critical roles.
To say that the PG on the greatest team of all time was
carried by the other players is utter bs. KC was the perfect
PG for this team, pure and simple. He did what needed to be
done to compliment the skills of the other players. To imply
that the *team* would have better with a different PG (even Magic)
is pure conjecture - it's hard to imagine that *anybody* could
have improved that team.
The record speaks: KC was one of the all-time greatest PGs.
josh
|
| 10.2346 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Thu Aug 25 1994 16:55 | 20 |
| Re.
> The record speaks: KC was one of the all-time greatest PGs.
Josh, now you've gone off the deep end. I'm worried about you. This is
even worse than a month or so back when you were equating Parish with
Jabbar.
If K.C. was one of the all-time greatest PGs, he would have been elected
into the HOF as soon as he was eligible, which would have been sometime
in the early 70s. He wasn't. He was only voted in during the mid 80s
after he had coached the Celts to a title. At the time, it was clear
that he was being voted in not because he was "one of the all-time
greatest PGs", but rather as a kind of lifetime achievement type deal --
college, pro, coaching.
Re. the bit about how Magic wouldn't have improved the Celtics: that's
funny, very funny!
Ken
|
| 10.2347 | | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Thu Aug 25 1994 17:12 | 29 |
| Who knows they would have change how they played as a team with magic
which may have broke down the chemistry of the team, what did they win
8in a row and 9 out of 10years how could magic have improved that game.
Odds are in favor of sayint they would have won less in that period
then more :-)
I agree it takes 5 guys (Dont I know it), even the best player in the
history of the game needed a supporting cast to win 3 in a row.
Could the bulls have won three in a row without Pippen or grant or BJ
or Paxson or Cartwright... NO those 5 and jordan made up a very special
chemistry I'll even Add Williams to that list, they need all these
pieces to will it all 3 times in a row. Does that make Pax's/BJ/Cart
Williams/grant/pippen one of the best all time at there position, I
dont think so, but dont think you can plug someone with better stats
in and get the same results.
Look at Phoenix, they had a good/great team and added barkley On paper
that should have put them over the edge... Add Jordan to the current
Knicks and you still dont have an automatic championship team, too many
head cases trying to play one on one street ball and not playing as a
team...
I dont see how KC couldnt be considered one of the Top PG's of all time
He did way too much and was way too succesfull throughout his entire B
ball carear to call it luck..
MairB
|
| 10.2348 | Winning ain't about stats | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Thu Aug 25 1994 21:36 | 23 |
| > I dont see how KC couldnt be considered one of the Top PG's of all time
> He did way too much and was way too succesfull throughout his entire B
> ball carear to call it luck..
At least MaB agrees with me...I can't be totally OTL ;)
>Re. the bit about how Magic wouldn't have improved the Celtics: that's
>funny, very funny!
LK, how do you improve a team that won 8 rings in a row? I don't understand.
On Magic's Laker team, KC would probably have been a disaster, that I can
agree with, but KC was clearly the right PG for the 60's Celts.
>If K.C. was one of the all-time greatest PGs, he would have been elected
>into the HOF as soon as he was eligible,
Rubbish. The HoF is a popularity contest. IMO that entire Celtics team
should be in the HoF. Look at what they achieved! It's incredible! The
greatest feat in the history of modern sport. No one else has ever come
close in ANY sport.
josh
|
| 10.2349 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | QUIET--case study in progress | Thu Aug 25 1994 22:56 | 14 |
| > BTW, brews was right when he said assists tabulation has changed.
> Since the early 70s, players have been given an assist on a pass that
> leads directly to a basket, even if the pass was only an outlet pass to
> midcourt and the guy drove the rest of the way. there used to be a
> "three step" rule tied to assists, which said no assist could be given
> if a guy took either three steps or more than three steps before he
> shot. I don't know exactly how the rule read, but the league clarified
> it when the revised states in the early 70s to include blocks, steals,
> and offensive rebounds.
Now take that fact, look at Oscar's stats from that time, and tell me
0who was the greatest passer of all time.
brews
|
| 10.2350 | When did Oscar rule? | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Fri Aug 26 1994 00:02 | 6 |
| > Now take that fact, look at Oscar's stats from that time, and tell me
> 0who was the greatest passer of all time.
What were Oscar's years? It seems to me he was a little later than KC, no?
josh
|
| 10.2351 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Fri Aug 26 1994 01:10 | 5 |
| Robertson played longer but certainly overlapped KC for quite a few
years. I think Robertson's last year was 1972 with the Bucks.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2352 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Fri Aug 26 1994 01:11 | 6 |
| re: .2348
you just defined OTL.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2353 | kc no point guard | 25022::BREEN | When are ya com'n back?...can't cha hear me | Fri Aug 26 1994 02:04 | 7 |
| Nice to see tcm is safely back from opp...
KC was never a pg as we know it. His main offensive skill was not
making mistakes and ballhandling. He could not shoot at all after 1960
and that became a bit of a problem.
For assists the old way I give you Cousy.
|
| 10.2354 | but still above all else stood Big Bill | CNTROL::CHILDS | Member of the Sloan Peterson FanClub | Fri Aug 26 1994 11:53 | 8 |
|
For assists the old way I give you Cousy.
^^^^^
without a doubt the greatest point
guard of all time. Magic was great but not that greatest. This guy defined
the posistion.
mike
|
| 10.2355 | Ridiculous | CNTROL::KING | | Fri Aug 26 1994 13:27 | 27 |
|
KC Jones Oscar Robertson Jerry West
NBA Ast Pts Ast Pts Ast Pts
58-59 1.4 (?-7) 3.5 (?-11)
59-60 2.6 (?-3) 6.3 (?- 8)
60-61 3.2 (?-3) 7.6 (?- 7) 9.7 (1-1) 30.5 (3-1) 4.2 (?-3) 17.6 (16-2)
61-62 4.3 (?-2) 9.1 (?- 7) 11.4 (1-1) 30.8 (3-1) 5.4 (6-1) 30.8 ( 5-1)
62-63 4.0 (?-3) 7.2 (?- 8) 9.5 (2-1) 28.3 (3-1) 5.6 (?-2) 27.1 (12-2)
63-64 5.1 (3-1) 8.2 (?- 7) 11.0 (1-1) 31.4 (2-1) 5.6 (4-1) 28.7 ( 5-1)
64-65 5.6 (3-1) 8.3 (?- 7) 11.5 (1-1) 30.4 (3-1) 4.9 (6-1) 31.0 ( 2-1)
65-66 6.3 (3-1) 8.6 (?- 8) 11.1 (1-1) 31.3 (3-1) 6.1 (4-1) 31.3 ( 2-1)
66-67 4.9 (8-2) 6.2 (?- 8) 10.7 (2-1) 30.5 (2-1) 6.8 (5-1) 28.7 ( 4-1)
67-68 4.3 7.4 Total 9.7 (3-1) 29.2 (1-1) 6.1 (?-3) 26.3 ( 2-1)
68-69 9.8 (1-1) 24.7 (4-1) 6.9 (5-1) 25.9 ( 2-1)
69-70 8.1 (2-1) 25.3 (6-1) 7.5 (4-1) 31.2 ( 1-1)
70-71 8.2 (3-1) 19.4 (?-2) 9.5 (2-1) 26.9 ( 5-1)
71-72 7.7 (5-1) 17.4 (?-3) 9.7 (1-1) 25.8 ( 7-2)
72-73 7.5 (4-1) 15.5 (?-4) 8.8 (2-1) 22.8 (12-2)
73-74 6.4 (7-1) 12.7 (?-4) 6.6 (?-?) 20.3 ( ?-?)I
9.5 25.7 Total 6.7 27.0 Total
Parentheses - first number is where he finished in the league,
second number is where he finished on his team
To discuss KC Jones in the same breath as Oscar Robertson & Jerry West is
ABSURD!
|
| 10.2356 | Jones wasn't there to score | 25022::BREEN | When are ya com'n back?...can't cha hear me | Fri Aug 26 1994 14:15 | 16 |
| The whole point to k.c. was what he could do to the level of play of
West and to some extent Robertson.
One thing in those days was that teams weren't as quick to exploit the
offensive weaknesses of a Jones although if he could've shot he could
have score 30 a game because the shot was always there. He was so open
that he couln't make anything.
But in the big games he could shut down West and negate but not stop
Oscar - to beat them in the Royals big challenge (63?) they resorted to
Sam Jones exploiting Robertson who as a single player was the greatest
threat of the decade (over wilt,baylor and west).
To put a point value in terms of single player dominance with Russell a
10 then Oscar was a 9 and the wilts,wests,baylors about 6.5. And this
is a consensus analysis and not purely my own.
|
| 10.2357 | KC has the Rings to prove what he was capable of | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Aug 26 1994 14:39 | 22 |
| It all comes down to knowing what your job is on the team.
Jordan could have broke alltime scoring records at everything
Game/Season/Averge and maybe even career but very early he realized
that if the team around him didnt produce he would never get a ring.
So would he have been more of a player if he averge 50pts per game
(Instead of 3X.x) or having won 3 championships in a row.
I didnt see KC play with the celts (Gee I wonder why), but stats and
.50 will get you a cup of coffee. You can compare him to the other
great PG's but bottom line he leads his team to 8 straight
championships and maybe he wasnt the biggest piece of the puzzle but
on most championship teams the PG plays a huge role.
I bet he never wakes up at night thinking "If I had only got my team
more involved rather then tyring to do it all myself".
Manute Bol is proberbly end up being one of the all time leading Shot
Blockers does that make him one of the all time greatest Centers ?
MairB
|
| 10.2358 | come on guys??? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Aug 26 1994 16:23 | 6 |
| small nit in this lduc... Since Rodman has two rings with the pistons
and a defensive specialist on the team since he was not called on to
score and a tremendous rebounder; Does that then necessarily mean he is
a future hall of famer and perhaps one of the greatest power forwards?
|
| 10.2359 | | 30008::ROBICHAUD | Football > Baseball | Fri Aug 26 1994 16:32 | 5 |
| Russell was not just a great defensive player, he changed the
way the game was played by his presence and talent. He certainly
changed the way Wilted played when the money was on the line.
/Don
|
| 10.2360 | the original Pippen migrane | CNTROL::CHILDS | Member of the Sloan Peterson FanClub | Fri Aug 26 1994 16:34 | 5 |
|
Rodman will make on haircuts alone..........I think if Rodman plays a few
more years and leads the league in rebounding those years then he is in...
mike
|
| 10.2361 | KC:==defense | VAOP28::Rice | Grrrrr..... | Fri Aug 26 1994 17:05 | 22 |
| > KC was never a pg as we know it. His main offensive skill was not
> making mistakes and ballhandling.
This is a contradiction in terms to me. The 2 skills mentioned ARE the
most important PG skills, along with defense.
>To discuss KC Jones in the same breath as Oscar Robertson & Jerry West is
>ABSURD!
True enuff. They were totally opposite types of players. KC didn't have the
offensive skills (except ballhandling) and O and Jerry didn't have the
defensive skills. Which is more important? The rings should tell you.
What was it R&G_D used to say? Defense Wins Championships, or something
like that?
I would also contend that the real reason that MJ has 3 rings is that
he became one of the greatest defensive guards ever to play the game.
His offense, while spectacular, was icing on the cake.
josh
|
| 10.2362 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Fri Aug 26 1994 19:04 | 15 |
| Re.
> True enuff. They were totally opposite types of players. KC didn't have the
> offensive skills (except ballhandling) and O and Jerry didn't have the
> defensive skills. Which is more important? The rings should tell you.
Josh, you are revising history on the fly here. I don't know about
Oscar, but I do know for a fact that Jerry West was an excellent
defensive player. Look, you're blowing this rings stuff way out of
proportion. When you start saying that KC was comparable to guys like
West and Robertson because he was such a great defensive player, that
would be like me trying to equate Michael Cooper with Michael Jordan.
It just don't wash.
Ken
|
| 10.2363 | How can you argue with success | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Aug 26 1994 20:19 | 17 |
| I thought the quesiton was weather KC was one of the all time best
(When I think of one of the all time best Id be think the top 2 or
3 in each era of the game (Or Decade if you choose to break it up
that way).
To say that Oscar or West could have stepped into KC spot on the
celtics team and improved it is impossible to imagine (Or Prove).
He did what was needed, what was asked of him and it helped lead
the celtics to 8 straight rings... If he did this while playing
great defense and a low turnover rate Id say that proves he was a
great PG, even if he aveage 1 pt per game. If my teams PG scores 0
pts, but has 10 assists and 0 turnover's, and 5 steals Id say he did
a great job. If theyve changed the was assists are calculated for all
be know KC had more assist then Magic :-)
mab
|
| 10.2364 | KC like Riz(z?)utto, in for all the wrong reasons | MSE1::FRANCUS | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Fri Aug 26 1994 20:51 | 7 |
| I can imagine a West or Robertson instead of KC improving the Celtics.
What I cannot imagine is KC improving the Royals or Lakers if he played
instead of Robertson or West. Not even close. You're basically putting
KC on Cousy's level and that is absurd.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2365 | Mental magic | VAOP28::Rice | UP! | Fri Aug 26 1994 21:18 | 25 |
| >Josh, you are revising history on the fly here. I don't know about
>Oscar, but I do know for a fact that Jerry West was an excellent
>defensive player.
No, history is clear, KC was an unequalled WINNER! Jerry West was a
*phenomenal* player, as good as MJ, as good as anyone I have ever
watched, the guy was awesome, but somehow when he got matched up
with KC he just kinda lost. It wasn't his fault, and when the Lakers
managed to win once in a while it was cuz he was magnificent, but
what is the criteria for greatness? Heroic efforts in a losing cause,
or quiet efforts in a winning cause?
>Look, you're blowing this rings stuff way out of
>proportion. When you start saying that KC was comparable to guys like
>West and Robertson because he was such a great defensive player, that
>would be like me trying to equate Michael Cooper with Michael Jordan.
I guess what I'm really saying is that there is no scientific understanding
of a champion, or what it takes to be one. I consider Cooper a *great*
player. I don't *equate* anyone with anyone, but Coop knew how to win.
There is mystery in sport, that's one of the things I love about it,
some people are just winners and some aren't. If I knew why I'd be a lot
richer than I am.
josh
|
| 10.2366 | | 25022::BREEN | When are ya com'n back?...can't cha hear me | Fri Aug 26 1994 21:35 | 4 |
| Cousy was a point guard in the classic sense. KC was always part of a
two guard tandem. I wouldn't compare him to Rizzuto but perhaps to
Tony Kubek who didn't hit his last few years but was critical in
prolonging that dynasty.
|
| 10.2367 | | MSE1::FRANCUS | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Fri Aug 26 1994 21:37 | 4 |
| and did Kubek get into the Hof???
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2368 | Just Doesn't Make Sense To Me | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Mon Aug 29 1994 13:02 | 27 |
| I just don't understand the rationale that because a guy was
on a team that won 'x' number of championships, that guy was
*therefore* one of the best ever.
Case in point: Oscar Robertson.
Was he a better player when he played for the Bucks champion-
ship team or when he played for the Royals?
I mean it certainly counts for something that a guy played on
championship teams. But, how much does it count? What I'm
seeing here is a very subjective thing. People are inferring
it is EVERYTHING which then implies that the game isn't really
a team game.
People rely (in part) on who their team mates are and to maintain
that some person is the greatest because he started on a certain
team is to deny the significance of this notion which (again) is
that people are reliant in part on who their teammates are.
Another case in point...Nitschke played for five NFL championship
teams. And even being a Packer fan, I would not claim he was a
better player than Butkus who may never have even played in a
playoff game. I also wouldn't claim Jim Taylor was a better RB
than Jim Brown. Football exagerates the obvious because there
are more players on a team, but the reasoning is the same.
Tony
|
| 10.2369 | Perspective from the Left Coast | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Mon Aug 29 1994 13:42 | 45 |
| Re .2365:
> No, history is clear, KC was an unequalled WINNER! Jerry West was a
> *phenomenal* player, as good as MJ, as good as anyone I have ever
> watched, the guy was awesome, but somehow when he got matched up
> with KC he just kinda lost. It wasn't his fault, and when the Lakers
> managed to win once in a while it was cuz he was magnificent, but
> what is the criteria for greatness? Heroic efforts in a losing cause,
> or quiet efforts in a winning cause?
Of the two, I would say the former. Greatness is an attribute of an
individual.
I lived in Los Angeles in those days (moved to Europe in 1974), and I
remember it this way: the Lakers and the Celtics would invariably meet
in the Final, West would average 35 or 40 points a game, Wilt would
dominate the boards, and the Celtics would win because their other three
guys on the floor were inevitably superior to the other Lakers (regardless
of whether the other three were starters or subs). I don't remember who
the Celts used to defend against West; it might have been KC, might not.
In any case, they couldn't touch him. He was invariably the best player
on the floor, and if the Laker team had been 10% better otherwise, they
would have won at least half of those series.
Ironically, the one time the Lakers beat the Celtics in that era, West
actually had a sub-par final and Wilt was the key figure.
My feeling on the question under discussion is that KC was a good solid
player, a major part of the chemistry, and therefore a contributor. But
calling a role player an all-time great seems to me to be stretching it.
I suspect there were half a dozen players in the NBA then who could have
played the same role or made a role of their own with that team.
> I guess what I'm really saying is that there is no scientific understanding
> of a champion, or what it takes to be one. I consider Cooper a *great*
> player. I don't *equate* anyone with anyone, but Coop knew how to win.
So does Cooper belong in the Hall of Fame? This is not a rhetorical
question. I haven't seen that much basketball since leaving the States,
maybe a half-dozen televised games a season, and my impression of Cooper
is of a defensive specialist you could afford to carry because you had
Magic at the other guard. But the nature of the defensive specialization
is that you have to see a lot of it to appreciate it.
Steve
|
| 10.2370 | | METSNY::francus | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Mon Aug 29 1994 13:44 | 6 |
|
I thought the first time the Lakers beat the Celtics in the Finals was
1985.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2371 | Correct TCM | CNTROL::CHILDS | Member of the Sloan Peterson FanClub | Mon Aug 29 1994 14:08 | 11 |
|
> I thought the first time the Lakers beat the Celtics in the Finals was
> 1985.
Ruined my whole year.............
mike
|
| 10.2372 | | METSNY::francus | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Mon Aug 29 1994 14:19 | 6 |
| au contraire it made it a very good year. Was at Shea Stadium (I'm pretty
sure Gooden was pitching) during game 6 and when the score was posted the
crowd cheered. kind of fun.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2374 | But against whom... | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Mon Aug 29 1994 15:13 | 5 |
| You're right, TCM, Jerry West's only championship came against an
opponent other than Boston. For the life of me, I can't remember
who it was. Knicks, maybe?
Steve
|
| 10.2375 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Member of the Sloan Peterson FanClub | Mon Aug 29 1994 15:20 | 8 |
|
> You're right, TCM, Jerry West's only championship came against an
> opponent other than Boston. For the life of me, I can't remember
> who it was. Knicks, maybe?
Probably the Philly Warriors with Wilted (tm)..........
|
| 10.2376 | | METSNY::francus | Baseball in 94? 95? :-( | Mon Aug 29 1994 15:34 | 7 |
|
West was still on the Lakers in 1972, right?? If so it was against the Knicks.
re: 1985 - yeah Tommy that pretty much sums up the Knicks that year.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2377 | | DOCTP::TESSIER | | Mon Aug 29 1994 16:58 | 5 |
| The '72 Lakers, winners of 33 straight, beat the Knicks in 5 games.
Starting five of West, Goodrich, Wilt, Happy Hairston, and Jim
McMillan.
Ken
|
| 10.2378 | Some history for you | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Mon Aug 29 1994 17:15 | 47 |
| First time the Celtics beat the Lakers in the NBA Finals was 1961-62.
Let's compare those two teams:
BOSTON LOS ANGELES INDIVIDUAL EDGE
C Russell Jim Krebs Boston
PF Heinsohn Rudy LaRusso Even
SF Sanders Elgin Baylor Los Angeles
SG Sam Jones Jerry West Los Angeles
PG Bob Cousy Frank Selvy Boston
----------------------------------------------------
RC Jim Luscatoff Ray Felix Los Angeles
RF Frank Ramsay Tom Hawkins Boston
RG KC Jones Hot Rod Hundley Even
Coach Auerbach Alex Hannum Boston
The Lakers were talented and deep. The Celtics went seven deep only.
KC played almost exactly as much as Cousy in a three guard rotation.
Auerbach was the big difference, and Russell of course.
In 1962-63 the Lakers add the talented Dick Barnett and young center
Leroy Ellis to an already deep squad. The only Celtic addition was
old vet Clyde Lovellette, who played less than 10 minutes per game
backing up Russell. Celtics still handled the Lakers easily, 4 games
to 2, in the Finals.
By 1964-65, Havlicak replaced Ramsay as 6th man, Mel Counts was the backup
center instead of Lovellette, and Willie Naulls was brought in to add
depth at forward in Heinsohn's last season. The Lakers added Jim King
and Walt Hazzard to the backcourt, and Gene WIiley and Darrell Imhoff
up front, but the result was the same. The Celtics toyed with them,
winning 4 games to 1 in the Finals.
Auerbach's last season was 1965-66, Despite the efforts of the Lakers
(with Gail Goodrich and Bob Boozer added to the squad), the Celtics
edged the Lakers 4 games to 3.
The Russell as coach era saw two more Celtic victories over the Lakers.
In 1967-68, they beat LA 4 games to 2. And who can forget the balloon
game (the 7th game of the 1968-69 series) when Jack Kent Cooke had
thousands of balloons in the roof ready to celebrate the Lakers victory
that never came.
So, the Celtics beat the Lakers six times in the Finals in the 1960s.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2379 | When men were men.... | VAOP28::Rice | UP! | Tue Sep 06 1994 18:45 | 9 |
| Hey Nazz, wasn't Bill Sharman the starting SG in 61? When did he quit?
I sorta remember Sam Jones backing him up for a year or two.
Otherwise, thanks for the history. I would LOVE to be able to watch
a tape of those teams. Not a hi-lites tape, but the whole game - like
all the game 7's or something...the TV stations must have it, I wonder
how you'd get it...maybe thru the C's organization?
josh
|
| 10.2380 | Shooting is much better in this era | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Wed Sep 07 1994 14:10 | 15 |
| I don't know how many tapes of those old games exist. That's something
I'll bring up at media day next month.
As for Sharman, his last year with the Celtics was 1960-61, when he
averaged only 16.0, his lowest total since his rookie season, and
missed 21 games due to injury. Sam Jones started with the Celtics in
1957-58, so he did back up Sharman for a few seasons, but by 1960, Sam
was getting the majority of the playing time.
BTW, Sharman was always known as a great shooter, but his career FG%
was .428, and he never shot as high as 46% in a season. Even the great
John Havlicek shot as high as 46% only once in his career, and had a
career FG% of .439.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2381 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Theresa's Sound-world | Wed Sep 07 1994 14:36 | 6 |
|
I don't know Nazz, I think you could make a point for better defense
being the cause of the lower shooting percentages before phi slamma
jamma became the norm.........
mike
|
| 10.2382 | Sharman was a bomber | VAOP28::Rice | UP! | Wed Sep 07 1994 16:31 | 19 |
| > I don't know how many tapes of those old games exist. That's something
> I'll bring up at media day next month.
Sounds good. I am *really* interested in taking another look at that team,
and I would think the C's mgmt would like to remind the fans just how great
it was.
> BTW, Sharman was always known as a great shooter, but his career FG%
> was .428, and he never shot as high as 46% in a season. Even the great
> John Havlicek shot as high as 46% only once in his career, and had a
> career FG% of .439.
That surprises me. You'd think the set shot they used would be more accurate
than today's jumper, but obviously not. Were there fewer layups in those days?
What kind of FG% did a guy like Bob Petit shoot?
josh
|
| 10.2383 | May account for 2 or 3 FG% points for old-timers | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Sep 08 1994 13:33 | 9 |
| Something else I'm gonna ask at media day, which occurs to me every now
and then but given my mind somehow never sticks long enough for me to
find out the answer (nice sentence Steve - and it ain't over yet!), is
whether or not FG attempts when in the act of shooting were counted
against your FG% in the old days. If you are fouled while shooting
today and the shot does not go in, you are not charged with an attempt.
I've gotta find out if that was always the case.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2384 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Sep 08 1994 16:35 | 1 |
| Ask them how come everyone wants to play in Phoenix now too...
|
| 10.2385 | The memories fade | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Fri Sep 09 1994 12:02 | 17 |
| If memory serves, Bill Sharman was known for his shooting *from the line*.
His career FT% was something phenomenal. It seems to me that it was the
league record until Rick Barry came along, but you'd have to look it up.
By 1960, the set shot was well on its way out. Most shooters were using
the jumper. I can still see Jerry West dribbling to his right, stopping
on a dime at about 20 feet, going up and burying it. Everybody knew what
he was going to do and nobody could do a thing about it.
But you can't compare those days to today's game. The BB of the 90s is
bigger, faster, and considerably rougher. And IMO considerably less
entertaining, but the success of the NBA suggests I'm a minority.
BTW, Nazz: GREAT sentence. I was almost disappointed to run into
the period.
Steve
|
| 10.2386 | yup | VAOP28::Rice | UP! | Fri Sep 09 1994 17:07 | 14 |
| >But you can't compare those days to today's game. The BB of the 90s is
>bigger, faster, and considerably rougher.
You just did compare 'em ;).
>And IMO considerably less
>entertaining, but the success of the NBA suggests I'm a minority.
Magic was quoted in the paper the other day saying just that. Cut
down the rough stuff or the audience will go away - people want to
see great athletes show their skill, and the hand-checking and Sumo
Wrestling prevent that from happening.
josh
|
| 10.2387 | Pretty impressive | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Fri Sep 09 1994 18:23 | 3 |
| Sharman's career FT% - .883!
NAZZ
|
| 10.2388 | many are signed, most are chosen | HBAHBA::HAAS | Sorry, wrong species. | Tue Sep 13 1994 15:50 | 14 |
| The judge has spoken:
Toni Kukoc - contract with Chicago is OK.
Chris Dudley - contract with Portland is OK.
A.C. Green - contract with Suns is OK.
Horace Grant - the decision concerning the contract with Orlando has been
delayed for 3 weeks, allowing the league to challenge the
one-year/opt-out clause.
Judge Dickinson Debevoise ruled in favor of Kukoc, Dudley and Green
because a year ago he ruled their contracts valid.
TTom
|
| 10.2389 | | QUASER::JACKSONTA | Chapter 11? | Thu Sep 15 1994 15:29 | 13 |
| I read that the NBA is discussing moving in the 3 point line to help
boost scoring.
Sounds like the NFL...Which I only like the decision to enforce the
no-bump after 5 yards rule.
If the NBA would make their officials enforce the rules, the scoring
will pick up.
It burns me when these leagues want to change tradition to cover for
their own screw ups....
Tim
|
| 10.2390 | a little movement | HBAHBA::HAAS | Sorry, wrong species. | Thu Sep 15 1994 16:13 | 16 |
| As I understand it, the change to the 3-point line will make it a circle.
Right now it's further from the top of the key than it is from the
corners. The rule change will move the line at the top of the key to be
the same distance as the corners, at least as I heard it.
I think it's a ridiculous rule change. I dint notice anyone having that
hard a time in the NBA with where the 3-point line was. All this is gonna
do is make Reggie Miller that much better.
The real change in the rules will be the enforcement of no-hand-checking.
Now, maybe, we'll be able to tell who really can play defense.
Of course, if'n the NBA keeps the "Star System" in making its calls, it
won't matter.
TTom
|
| 10.2391 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Thu Sep 15 1994 16:34 | 32 |
|
Yes, the new NBA three point line will make it a true arc
all the way arround. Rhight now the 3pt-shot from the corner is
22 feet. They are making the shot consistent all the way arround
the court. Which should help spread things arround the court a
little more. The standard play is to send your 3pt shooter into
the far corner and swing the ball to him when a low post double
team develops. It makes it easier for the Defense, if they know
where the shooter will always be.
And the no-hand-checking rule, as I understand it is as
follows: You cannot TOUCH the ball handler from the far baseline
all the way to your (defensive) Free Throw line extended. Below
the FT line, use of hands will still be allowed but no clutching
or grabbing. (The first part of the rule should be easily enforced,
I remain skeptical of the second.)
Another welcome change: grabbing the ball-handler in the backcourt
to prevent an easy fast break oportunity will now be a Break-away
foul.
Does anybody else get the feeling that this is the beginning
of a move to move NBA & FIBA rules towards each other? I'm
betting that soon FIBA will move their 3-pt line out to 22 feet.
I noticed the NBA will consider changing the size and shape of the
lane until next year. Interesting announcement, a carrot to FIBA
perhaps???
JimH
|
| 10.2392 | should benefit Phoenix | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Sep 15 1994 17:28 | 2 |
| They're also pondering more FT's for players fouled while attempting a
trey.
|
| 10.2393 | | HANNAH::ASHE | Goofy's going to college | Thu Sep 15 1994 19:55 | 2 |
| Leave the arc where it is... give them 3 free throws...
|
| 10.2394 | yes! | VAOP28::Rice | tata | Fri Sep 16 1994 17:50 | 23 |
| > And the no-hand-checking rule, as I understand it is as
> follows: You cannot TOUCH the ball handler from the far baseline
> all the way to your (defensive) Free Throw line extended. Below
> the FT line, use of hands will still be allowed but no clutching
> or grabbing. (The first part of the rule should be easily enforced,
> I remain skeptical of the second.)
That is my understanding also, having read the press release in clari.
sports.basketball lasted night. This is *great* IMO. It will change the
pace of the game more than any other possible change. NOW we will see
who the good PGs are. The other major change they mentioned is getting
tough on illegal screens, which is also badly needed. Neither of these
require approval - they are done deals.
The change to the 3 point line and the 3-foul-shots require approval,
but will probably go through.
As of now I am pleased - we'll see how long that lasts once the season
starts ;)
Defense wins championships, but offense sells tickets.
josh
|
| 10.2395 | even money | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Sep 22 1994 19:37 | 1 |
| Suns were 2:1 to win the NBA title in Los Wages this weekend.
|
| 10.2396 | | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Wed Oct 19 1994 13:50 | 9 |
|
Glen Robinson wants $100 MILLION dollar contract from the Bucks for 13
years! Bucks are offering a paltry 60 MILLION dollars over 9 years.
All this for a guy who hasn't played in a pro game yet. Salaries
are definitely out of control in professional sports (IMO).
Kevin
|
| 10.2397 | stop the insanity | BSS::MARLAND | | Wed Oct 19 1994 14:44 | 1 |
| I don't blame the Bucks, I wouldn't pay Robinson $100 million either.
|
| 10.2398 | | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Wed Oct 19 1994 15:59 | 7 |
| So just what is the new "hand-check" rule? I had thought
that they were still allowing hand-checking inside the
three-point circle, but from what I'm hearing (haven't
paid any attention to pre-season games), they are calling
it all over the floor.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2399 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Oct 19 1994 16:56 | 4 |
| no hand-checking from the baseline to the free-throw line.
Big Dog was told by the owner to pay him $100M and he can have the
whole franchise!
|
| 10.2400 | NBA SNARF! | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Oct 19 1994 16:57 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2401 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | What a terrible year 1918 | Thu Oct 20 1994 12:46 | 7 |
|
Anybody know how bad Shawn Bradley hurt his knee last night?
How long is he out?
Thanks in Advance
|
| 10.2402 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | What a terrible year 1918 | Thu Oct 20 1994 16:20 | 8 |
|
Guess not huh???
:-)
Chap
|
| 10.2403 | | HANNAH::ASHE | til the sun comes up over Santa Monica Blvd | Thu Oct 20 1994 16:27 | 2 |
| Nope... don't know...
|
| 10.2404 | he's a stiff anyway; Zo rules! | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Oct 20 1994 16:56 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2405 | Last chance Heiser Miller and Manning for ZO!!!!!!! | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | What a terrible year 1918 | Thu Oct 20 1994 16:59 | 7 |
|
Yeah but should I protect him!!!! :-)
Chappy
|
| 10.2406 | Kiss Kiss, Hug Hug | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Happy Happy, Joy Joy | Thu Oct 20 1994 17:59 | 7 |
| Hawks have called a news conference today. Apparently they and
crybaby Kevin (who me, renegotiate?) Willis have kissed and made up.
The Hawks "go to" man returns. Oh well, at least I can go and get a
good seat on game day when someone interesting (Suns, Magic...) comes to
town.
UMDan
|
| 10.2407 | go ahead and waive Bradley | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Oct 20 1994 18:24 | 3 |
| > -< Last chance Heiser Miller and Manning for ZO!!!!!!! >-
they ain't worth it.
|
| 10.2408 | Will The Big Dog Sign? | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | God cares. | Mon Oct 24 1994 15:15 | 4 |
| What do you think will happen with Glenn Robinson?
I guess he wants 100 mil over 13 years. I rather lose the
draft pick myself. This is insanity.
|
| 10.2409 | let them earn it first | FRETZ::HEISER | LHS Blew Devils #1 | Mon Oct 24 1994 15:50 | 1 |
| Sir Charles is right.
|
| 10.2410 | NBA Lockout? | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Thu Oct 27 1994 13:06 | 10 |
| The NBA owners have called for a lockout vote Monday if'n there is no
player agreement signed by then.
Local player rep, Kenny Gattison, is be quoted as saying that the union
has sent out a warning to all the players that they should prepare for a
lockout. The message is that a lockout is likely.
The league and the union have scheduled a press conference for today.
TTom
|
| 10.2411 | | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Thu Oct 27 1994 13:11 | 8 |
| IS THIS FOR FREAKING REAL.....
Im sick of these WHINNERS, I really didnt think it would happen in 2
sports (baseball and Hockey) but now to happen in 3, this is getting
really ridiculous....
mab
|
| 10.2412 | no agreement + lawsuits = lockout? | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Thu Oct 27 1994 13:32 | 9 |
| Publicly, both Commish Stern and the union boss Grantham are sticking to
the earlier pledge of no lockout-no strike.
However some of the owners do not like the fack that there are a number
of players' lawsuits pending while there is no current player agreement
for this season. The issues are being contested as violations of
antitrust laws and include the draft, free agency, and salary caps.
TTom
|
| 10.2413 | NFLPA stikes again! | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Hear me now, believe me later | Thu Oct 27 1994 14:09 | 7 |
| The NFLPA must really be spending the dinero to get all of these other
sports to hang up their seasons. The slush fund must be getting low by
now. The IHL and NCAA also gotta be loving this stuff. Give me NCAA
basketball anytime. Besides, just like the NHL, the NBA regular season
doesn't really count for much anymore (IMHO).
UMDan
|
| 10.2414 | Go Joe! | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Thu Oct 27 1994 14:35 | 8 |
| > ... Give me NCAA
> basketball anytime.
Here! Here!
And it's just around the corner.
TTom
|
| 10.2415 | NBA better not blow it | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Oct 27 1994 15:37 | 3 |
| We'll see what Stern is made of now. It doesn't take a rocket
scientists to figure out that whatever sport doesn't strike/lockout
will rise a few notches in the fans' eyes.
|
| 10.2416 | no lockout-no strike repeated | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Thu Oct 27 1994 18:50 | 12 |
| They had the press conference and they repeated the no lockout-no strike
agreement.
The news seems to be that all is not well in paradise, though. The union,
through the reps, are reminding everyone that nothing is settled: no
agreement, pending lawsuits, the cap, what counts in the players share,
etc.
One can only hope that it gets settled without affecting any of thised
season.
TTom
|
| 10.2417 | the NBA on the WWW | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Oct 31 1994 19:58 | 8 |
| Here are the WWW NBA pages that I know of:
http://www.nd.edu/StudentLinks/mecheves/suns/suns.html
http://www.primenet.com/~shannon/index.html
http://www.cs.hmc.edu/people/byau/sonics.html
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ec5868/magic.html
http://www.mit.edu:8001/services/sis/sports.html
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/terra/www/laker.html
|
| 10.2418 | Nice hair, dude! | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | whatchyalookinat? | Tue Nov 01 1994 17:03 | 5 |
| Just heard that Houston has suspended Dennis Rodman for conduct
unbecoming of the team. No other details. Maybe they caught Madonna
and him whooping it up at center court.
UMDan
|
| 10.2419 | not surprising | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Tue Nov 01 1994 17:05 | 10 |
| He got tossed in the Hornets game lasted night.
It was just a basic "whine to the ref" until the firsted T, then "whine
to the ref" until the second T and with it the automatic toss.
After the game, they interviewed General Robinson who said that Rodman
had to start acting like he was interested in the team more than in his
own antics. Ol' Dave seemed a bit perturbed, to say the least.
TTom
|
| 10.2420 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Nov 01 1994 17:20 | 2 |
| I bet it was San Antonio that suspended him. I'm surprised the Admiral
hasn't straightened his act out yet.
|
| 10.2421 | Brain Cramp | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | whatchyalookinat? | Tue Nov 01 1994 17:21 | 6 |
| Opps, sorry, you're right, San Antonio.
UMDan
|
| 10.2422 | I thought only the NFL overdid things | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | Chicago has wimpy winters | Tue Nov 01 1994 17:31 | 13 |
| Here's one for you:
For what most Chicago fans claim as the greatest basketball player
ever, they haven't sold out tonight's three hour "official drool over
Michael lovefest." There are nearly full pages ads in today's paper
yet. Part of it might have to do with the prices - $50, $75 and $100
PER ducat.
Thank you no, I won't be listening. The Larry lovefest was more than
enough for me.
Spud
|
| 10.2423 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Swimsuit Issue - Sonic Youth | Tue Nov 01 1994 18:01 | 4 |
|
the Admiral's a wussy. Rodman would break him in two if he tried anything.
mike
|
| 10.2424 | Rodman | SPIKED::SWEENEY | Tom Sweeney in OGO | Wed Nov 02 1994 12:00 | 10 |
| Apparently after being tossed, Dennis threw a bag of ice at the head coach
and at the ref (I think).
A night or two ago was the Spurs tip off dinner. During the dinner, they
presented a video with all of the players featured for a few moments. Rodman's
piece was spliced out. That's a little message heh?
This as reported on the radio this morning.
zamboni
|
| 10.2425 | both are a waste | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Nov 02 1994 14:37 | 1 |
| ...and to think we could've had him instead of Dumas.
|
| 10.2426 | Rooks a Woof | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Wed Nov 02 1994 16:46 | 5 |
| minor late trade:
Sean Rooks to Minnesota for future firsted round pick.
TTom
|
| 10.2427 | | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Wed Nov 02 1994 17:20 | 8 |
|
| Sean Rooks to Minnesota for future firsted round pick.
Cain't believe that Minnesota would give up a firsted
rounder for this guy. 'Specially with where their firsted
rounders have been falling lately.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2428 | which team? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed Nov 02 1994 17:25 | 2 |
| So who was Sean Rooks traded from?
|
| 10.2429 | sounds like Tarpley might be ready | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Nov 02 1994 17:28 | 2 |
| Rooks was a Mav. The Woofies now have Stacey King and Rooks. It would
take a coin toss to see who's better.
|
| 10.2430 | good move | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed Nov 02 1994 19:34 | 4 |
| So it is possible that the Mavs could get TWO top picks next year.
Wow...The mavs already have 3 legitimate stars in the making.
Mashburn, Jackson, and KIDD.
|
| 10.2431 | | FORTY2::FOWLERM | Jubilee | Thu Nov 03 1994 08:46 | 4 |
| The pick the Mavs will get is lottery protected this year and top 6 protected
next year, so it's not likely to be all that sensational.
mike
|
| 10.2432 | Warriors/Heat Trade | CNTROL::KING | | Thu Nov 03 1994 10:42 | 1 |
| Billy Owens traded to Heat for Rony Seikaly
|
| 10.2433 | questions that beg | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Thu Nov 03 1994 13:16 | 6 |
| So who plays in the middle for Miami?
And does this mean that the Warriors are in no particular hurry to
re-sign Webber?
TTom
|
| 10.2434 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Thu Nov 03 1994 14:09 | 15 |
|
Its insurance in case Webber sits out for a while. Also Webber is
not a Center, he is a Power Forward. If this trade is true, GSW are
a tough team to beat. This isn't a bad lineup if Webber signs.
C - Seikely
PF - Webber
SF - Mullin
PG - Hardaway
SG - Sprewell
In essence you have 2 point guards who can shoot from the outside.
The only drawback would be Mullin guarding quicker SF.
Ron
|
| 10.2435 | Warriors are going to be tough | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Nov 03 1994 14:44 | 5 |
| Webber should be back soon now. He was holding out to see what the Big
Dog got. Robinson is signing to day for $60M (guaranteed) for 10
years. The press conference is this afternoon.
Mike
|
| 10.2436 | who's unsigned? | HBAHBA::HAAS | been to the mountain tops | Thu Nov 03 1994 14:47 | 10 |
| A couple of questions about signings:
Now that Cliff Rozier has signed, what's the status of Carlos Rogers?
Also, assuming the Big Dog signs, who's left unsigned from thised year's
draft?
Thanks,
Tom
|
| 10.2437 | only ones I can think of | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Nov 03 1994 14:48 | 3 |
| Juwan Howard
Carlos Rogers
|
| 10.2438 | The Big Hog (Er I Mean Dog) Is Signing??! | STRATA::BARBIERI | God cares. | Thu Nov 03 1994 16:36 | 8 |
| Mike, is it really true??!!
Robinson is signing??? All right!
Back to Golden State. Barring injury, they are going to be one
tough team to beat.
Tony
|
| 10.2439 | I hate caps | 25022::BREEN | | Thu Nov 03 1994 18:52 | 11 |
| Do I have it right that rookies (1st round) essentially have no cap
under normal circumstances?
Something like, if they are at the 'cap the 1st rounder doesn't count.
Problem is this affects the slots of everyone else so I could see (a
Dallas) with 3 superpriced stars and a bunch of underpaid supporting
staff, a recipe of underachieving.
This cap may kill professional sports to the point that by late 90s
they'll be a thing of the past
|
| 10.2440 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Nov 03 1994 18:54 | 4 |
| the NBA has a revenue sharing plan that players from other sports are
screaming for. Unfortunately, the NBA's plan happened to be tagged a
salary cap. If you review this plan, it is what has put the NBA above
every other league.
|
| 10.2441 | Plan sips | 25022::BREEN | | Thu Nov 03 1994 19:02 | 7 |
| This "plan" has kept the Celtics mired in mediocrity for five years.
Or is it not the Plan? Have the owners used it as an excuse to milk
profit from the Bird years when they could have done something.
One thing about the plan is that it's so complicated it a perfect
excuse for failure.
|
| 10.2442 | If even the teams won't abide by agreement, why bother? | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Thu Nov 03 1994 19:16 | 33 |
|
> the NBA has a revenue sharing plan that players from other sports are
> screaming for. Unfortunately, the NBA's plan happened to be tagged a
> salary cap. If you review this plan, it is what has put the NBA above
> every other league.
What universe are you living in this week, MikeH? Revenue sharing and
a salary cap are one and the same. Players from other sports are not
screaming for either (although if the numbers were worked in their
favor, like anything else negotiable, that could change). For their
part, NBA players are so happy with the NBA's plan that they're suing
in court to have it removed (apparently they didn't review it as
carefully as Mike Heiser).
Here's the real problem I have with salary caps (let's see if we can
follow this chain of events):
- NBA cuts deal with NBA players on salary cap
- NBA signs contracts with individual NBA players exploiting
certain loopholes around salary cap rules
- NBA sues individual players for signing contracts exploiting
certain loopholes around cap rules
Shouldn't the NBA just sue itself, and save the courts the time and
money? The best argument of all against artificial restraints of
free market forces comes when even the potential beneficiaries of
said restraints can't/won't enforce them because the free market
forces win out.
glenn
|
| 10.2443 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Nov 03 1994 19:33 | 11 |
| > This "plan" has kept the Celtics mired in mediocrity for five years.
No bad luck is what has the Celtics mired in mediocrity over the last 5
years. The deaths of Bias and Lewis, plus the premature retirings of
Bird and McHale. It has nothing to do with the cap.
Glenn, the NBA salary cap is part of the plan that includes revenue
sharing between the owners and players. This is a fact. The players
only want it loosened because it hinders trading.
Mike
|
| 10.2444 | They're playing, that was smart, but the battle goes on... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Thu Nov 03 1994 19:50 | 22 |
|
> Glenn, the NBA salary cap is part of the plan that includes revenue
> sharing between the owners and players. This is a fact.
It's a fact, but it's meaningless. Call it whatever you want, when
you say that the players get x%, it's both revenue sharing and a
cap. No different in principle than what's in effect in the NFL,
and proposed by ownership in MLB and the NHL. No league has proposed
a salary cap without guarantees on revenue sharing.
> The players only want it loosened because it hinders trading.
Please. Nothing at all to do with restricted player movement on
the open market. Nothing at all to do with money. Players just
want the freedom to be more easily traded, at management's
discretion. And those bargaining negotiations and court proceedings
actually aren't at all contentious, but are rather group bonding
sessions based on mutual understanding and admiration...
glenn
|
| 10.2445 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Nov 03 1994 20:20 | 4 |
| When I said trading, I implied free agency.
Of course when you just want to win, you do what Manning and Tisdale
did.
|
| 10.2446 | | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Fri Nov 04 1994 11:33 | 3 |
| | Title: I hate caps
You prefer Havanas? Perhaps a Stetson is more your style...
|
| 10.2447 | Come out of that dream world, MikeH... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Fri Nov 04 1994 14:56 | 15 |
|
> Of course when you just want to win, you do what Manning and Tisdale
> did.
MikeH, did you read Charles Barkley's response to this when he was
asked about his teammates' "sacrifice"? It went something like this
(from memory):
"Shut up. I can't believe you're asking me that. What a stupid
question. Wasn't no sacrifice. These guys will be getting their
money sooner or later. You guys are really gullible, etc., etc."
glenn
|
| 10.2448 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Nov 04 1994 15:42 | 5 |
| That's no dream world and Chuck is blowin smoke. You look at how much
fun Manning and Tisdale are having for about 20% of what they could be
making and reality hits real quick. Even by today's standards, Chuck
is drastically underpaid at $3.2M/year, but he's still having fun.
Winning is what it's all about.
|
| 10.2449 | Willis - Heat trade | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | whatchyalookinat? | Tue Nov 08 1994 11:58 | 9 |
| Kevin (I live to renegotiate) Willis, along with an unspecified
first round pick, was traded to Miami for Steve Smith and Grant Long,
along with a second round pick. Lots of complicated salary
moves took place (will try to find deatils.)
Sprots radio shows liked the trade, but some fans are STILL sore about
'Nique being traded last season (based on the calls this am.)
UMDan
|
| 10.2450 | | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Tue Nov 08 1994 12:27 | 13 |
| | Kevin (I live to renegotiate) Willis, along with an unspecified
| first round pick, was traded to Miami for Steve Smith and Grant Long,
| along with a second round pick. Lots of complicated salary
| moves took place (will try to find deatils.)
I didn't hear the draft pick swap, but that evens things out a bit.
On firsted pass, all I could think was "what's Miami doing now!".
Is is just me, or are teams being a bit cavalier (no pun, well maybe a
little one) with firsted rounders? Seems like that is something you
don't want to give up.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2451 | I'll go right out on a limb | 25022::BREEN | | Tue Nov 08 1994 12:39 | 2 |
| This was a tremendous trade for the Heat and clinches a playoff spot
for them for years to come.
|
| 10.2452 | Just wondering... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Tue Nov 08 1994 17:14 | 4 |
| Willis cannot shoot a jumper... Who is going to score consistently for
the Heat? I do not follow the Heat, so what does there lineup looke
like now?
|
| 10.2453 | Still mediocre | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Tue Nov 08 1994 19:46 | 16 |
| >> Who is going to score consistently for the Heat?
They have Billy Owens at small forward and Glenn Rice at shooting guard
to provide the bulk of the offense.
>> I do not follow the Heat, so what does there lineup looke like now?
Center: John Salley, Matt Geiger
Forwards: Billy Owens, Kevin Willis, Kevin Gamble
Guards: Bimbo Coles, Glenn Rice, Khalid Rheeves (sp?)
Looks like a lower tier playoff team that will get eliminated in the
first round.
Vinny
|
| 10.2454 | | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Thu Nov 10 1994 12:51 | 7 |
|
James Worthy will announce his retirement today. I'm sure this will
cause a lot of consternation amongst some of you.
Kevin
|
| 10.2455 | gone but not forgotten | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Thu Nov 10 1994 13:11 | 19 |
| Good ol' James Worthy!
First Laker Ken and now James. No one left from the dynasty years of
Showtime. :-(
Worthy burst on the scene in the 82 NCAA finals against Patrick Ewing and
the Hoyas. He was MVP. To this date, I've not seen a college freshman who
looked as good as Worthy. I was going to State at the time and I told a
buddy that our best hope was that Worthy would get hurt or leave early.
Both happened but in between he helped the Heels win it all.
Then, as the NBA had a collective lapse, the Lakers having won it all,
got to draft Worthy as the overall #1, the onliest time the champion ever
got the #1.
And then the debate began. Was Worthy any good or did he merely look good
beside the likes of Magic and Kareeem.
TTom
|
| 10.2456 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Swimsuit Issue - Sonic Youth | Thu Nov 10 1994 13:45 | 10 |
|
TTom, you really thought that Worthy was a better looking freshman than
Michael or Grant????
I'd have to say these two were the most impressive freshman I've seen
in my time. Unless of course you were just talking about at that present
time when you were talking to your buddy........
mike
|
| 10.2457 | yassir | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Thu Nov 10 1994 14:10 | 17 |
| > TTom, you really thought that Worthy was a better looking freshman than
> Michael or Grant????
Absolutely.
Michael started a little slow at Chapel Hill. People tend to remember
that he hit the winning shot in the Championship but he was not the
dominant player that he would become the nexted 2 years when he was the
POY.
Grant came in when Duke was loaded. Laettner and Hurley preceeded Hill
and had considerable success. Grant was the missing piece to put them on
top for a couple of years.
I'm not really comparing careers, just first impressions.
TTom
|
| 10.2458 | Two iteams: Worthy and the Heat | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Nov 10 1994 14:15 | 12 |
| Worthy was a slightly better than average forward who had the great
fortune to be the third banana behind Magic and Kareem. He ran the
floor well, shot OK, rarely rebounded. If he were on the Kings, he
never would have made an all-star team.
Re. the Willis trade, he'll play center for the clueless Heat.
They'll play Owens at PF, Rice at SF, and use Geiger as a backup C
and Salley as a backup PF. Their guards look really weak, with Coles,
Miner, Reeves, and retread Ledell Eackles. Old friend Kevin Gamble
backs up Rice. This is a team that will be lucky to win 35 games.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2459 | Okay, okay; I'll give Radja another chance | 25022::BREEN | | Thu Nov 10 1994 14:56 | 10 |
| This is certainly a team that will win a lot more than the Celtics.
there's not enough D in this bunch to go far in playoffs but they'll do
as well or better than last year. Their moves were constructive for
them.
Seikaly was more of a political move. He will help Don Nelson much
more than them but Owens has potential.
Would you rather have Radja than Owens?
|
| 10.2460 | and atlanta | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Thu Nov 10 1994 15:02 | 11 |
| Nazz, you quotin' from Doug Ross there about Worthy? ;-)
Speaking of Atlanta, trading Willis and all, they're certainly slow outta
the gate, going the big oh-fer-three after lasted night's loss at the
Suns.
Washington lost for the firsted time at the Sixers but Sacramento won
at the Sonics. The Nets finally won one, beating the bulls. Who knows how
good any of 'em are, yet.
TTom
|
| 10.2461 | | 30439::DFIELD | | Thu Nov 10 1994 15:06 | 7 |
|
I know he's a Laker but give the guy his due... he was ideally suited
for the Showtime teams.. and for a few years he was pretty automatic
with that cut across the paint fingerroll maneuver he used to pull.
-D
|
| 10.2462 | Dino much > Owens | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Nov 10 1994 17:42 | 8 |
| If'n I could get a feed from Magic jest where I wanted it, and then
take four steps before my layup, I woulda been awesome too!
Re. who would you rather have, Owens or Radja? This isn't even close.
Dino is a better scorer, runs the floor better, and is a much better
rebounder. Owens is a better passer and gets injured a lot better.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2463 | we shall surely see | 25022::BREEN | | Thu Nov 10 1994 18:51 | 17 |
| 1. Atlanta is in contention or wins best record with willis and 'nique
and both are disappeared by some genius in a suit.
But hawks may get a lottery pick this year
2. Radja runs the floor better than who??? Owens with a broken leg?
Dino is almost as slow as Bird. Owens was in with a bunch of stars
at gs; I'm very curious to see what he can do in this new venue.
Yes, he's had a few injuries in his short nba career and I don't
know if that's chronic.
and I'll be watching Radja on the road and the minute he
shows me the goods I'll be the first to cheer him on. God knows we
need $4mil worth from him.
btw
|
| 10.2464 | And happy vday and usmc b'day; should be at the parade | 25022::BREEN | | Fri Nov 11 1994 16:46 | 12 |
| Well I left the house after watching knicks-magic for one quarter and
came back in time for last five minutes.
Fairly entertaining with magic trying to catch knicks, finally doing so
with Shaq and then Patrick putting in a high arching fadeaway from the
right baseline to win it at 2.4 seconds.
Shaq is immense but has to play smarter. Anf'nee Hardaway is a show
but Harper was using him up on the other end.
Patrick has come a long,long way; he's one of my favorites even when I
root against the knicks.
|
| 10.2465 | something to like, dislike | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Fri Nov 11 1994 17:01 | 15 |
| The Knicks should thank the Hornets for forcing Shaq and the Magic-Fu
into overtime Thursday night.
There's a lot I like about the Magic but there's a lot I don't. Their
bench is almost literally nonexistent. Lasted night, Shaw got 2 points
and the rest were goose-eggs-baby.
When either Shaq or Penny go out, this team will have a hard time holding
a lead or otherwise competing. Shaq's playing over 40 minutes a game and
his stamina won't last at that rate. If he keeps playing these minutes,
look for a bad fade come late March and April.
Meanwhile, the Knicks seem to be getting it done with smoke and mirrors.
TTom
|
| 10.2466 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Nov 14 1994 14:56 | 5 |
| Nobody has mentioned James' 2 most shining moments:
"HENDERSON STOLE THE BALL! HENDERSON STOLE THE BALL!"
...and the Houston Hotel double low-post spin move.
|
| 10.2467 | late but not so great theories | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Mon Nov 14 1994 15:14 | 9 |
| > ...and the Houston Hotel double low-post spin move.
Mike, you got this one all wrong.
All James was doing was acting on the standard Faux Fan Tar Heel theory
of paranoia in hotel rooms. If'n James hadn't had some company, he mighta
ended up daid behind a locked door.
TTom
|
| 10.2468 | more WWW pages | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Nov 15 1994 15:19 | 9 |
| http://www.starwave.com/nba/toc.html
http://www.nd.edu/StudentLinks/mecheves/suns/suns.html
http://www.ics.com/~drisko/celtics.html
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ec5868/magic.html
http://www.cs.hmc.edu/people/byau/sonics.html
http://deepthought.armory.com/~lew/sports/basketball
http://www.ils.nwu.edu/~richards/bulls.html
http://www.mit.edu:8001/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/e/f/efgilmou/WWW/knicks.html
http://oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu/personal/kmahoney/Cavs/cavs.html
|
| 10.2469 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | Dawgs RULE, Pats SIP! | Tue Nov 15 1994 17:00 | 3 |
| 10.2470 | bring back the Ross Index | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Tue Nov 15 1994 17:19 | 3 |
| You serious?
TTom
|
| 10.2471 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Nov 15 1994 18:47 | 2 |
| Groaner, are you taking your stupid pills again or are the side effects
of Lake Erie coming out of remission again?!
|
| 10.2472 | One dimensional no more... | DUGROS::ROSS | Thriving,surviving | Tue Nov 15 1994 19:49 | 5 |
| So long, James Worthy. You never quite lived up to your billing once
Magic left. I'm sorry you didn't hang around another year so that your
career rebounding average could slip below 5.0 a game.
|
| 10.2473 | Go get 'em, Mo | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Wed Nov 16 1994 13:42 | 6 |
| In the latest "well if George Foreman can do it...", Mo Cheeks is considering
coming out of retirement. He's and assistant coach with Philly (?),
and I guess has been keeping in shape practicing with the team.
Speaking of Philly, did I see that Sharone Wright got banged up lasted
night?
|
| 10.2474 | bum wheel | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Wed Nov 16 1994 13:43 | 3 |
| Wright supposedly sprained his ankle.
TTom
|
| 10.2475 | Arnie Risen's been working out too | 25022::BREEN | Of yew wood, the true wood | Wed Nov 16 1994 14:39 | 15 |
| From where I'm watching the skill level has gone down as much in
basketball as it has in boxing. If he's in any kind of shape the
Celtics should grab him. Boy are they woeful.
The best example of the degradation of nba basketball is Pat Ewings
version of a pick when he blocks in a move which is so patently illegal
that he would be thrown offf a jv team for such lousy repeated
execution.
The nba in its sad state simply allows HIM to do it everytime since he
refuses to attempt to do it right and he knows and they know and...
that they can't call it on him every time.
It was called in nba playoffs last year at a critical point. It can be
called EVERY time.
|
| 10.2476 | Where are the fundamentally sound players of today? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Wed Nov 16 1994 18:01 | 17 |
| Amen to that previous note. In my view, the league has slipped
noticably since the mid to late 80s, when the Pistons brand of
smashmouth basketball became prevalent. Fortunately for them, they
complimented their brutality with some excellent role players (Rodman
when he was still semi-human, Vinnie Johnson, James Edwards) and
a very good coach in Chuck Daly.
I am hopeful that the rule changes will allow the more skillful players
to play the game the way it should be played, but even those changes
can't account for the lack of fundamental skills in so many big names
in the NBA.
NAZZ
PS - Sharone Wright landed on somebody's foot goin for a block on a
corner jumper and twisted his ankle pretty badly. It looked gross!!!
|
| 10.2477 | | 57045::FRANCUS | There is no joy in Mudville | Wed Nov 16 1994 22:55 | 8 |
| re: .2475
hahaha. if Bird had done that it would be deified in here as a
brilliant move that only one of the truly greats could have invented.
and ,2476 is not any less biased.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2478 | | GRANPA::DFAUST | Bad Things, man... | Thu Nov 17 1994 11:09 | 9 |
| re: Sharone Wright
He has a grade 2 sprained ankle and is currently in a hard cast, which
is to be removed this weekend. He will them be listed as day to day.
Team doctors say that it could be a couple of weeks until Wright can
play again.
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.2479 | | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Thu Nov 17 1994 14:02 | 13 |
| Latest on Chris Webber:
Contract signed, deal rumored to be Webber to Washington
for Gugliotta (sp?) and two firsted rounders.
Sounds like a big short-term payoff for Wasington. GS gets
back a couple of the firsted rounders they gave up for Webber.
Googs can score some, but isn't the rebounder or shot blocker
that Webber is.
Interesting.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2480 | If I'm GS, I make that deal in a heartbeat | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Nov 17 1994 14:11 | 4 |
| However Googs is something that Webber will never be - a team player.
Give me Tom Gugliotta any day over that selfish egomaniac.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2481 | | SCOONE::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Thu Nov 17 1994 14:16 | 13 |
| | Title: If I'm GS, I make that deal in a heartbeat
I actually think the key is the draft picks. The Warriors
are looking at getting old awfully fast without any firsted
rounders for three out of the nexted 5 (?) years.
Interesting comment relayed from a friend in the SF area:
Tony LaRussa (of all people) said that "these kids have
never been told they've ever done anything wrong" on the
court, and it was a shock to Webber that Nelson actually
had/has the chutzpa to tell him "do it this way".
=Bob=
|
| 10.2482 | | 56953::HALPIN | Wow!!! 45 & 70 | Thu Nov 17 1994 14:32 | 22 |
|
I'm with NAZZ. If this offer is really on the table, they should
take it quick.
Googs is a very good bball player. He's got a nice shot, 3pt range,
and can rebound (9.3/Game lasted year). He can player either forward
position, but IMHO is more suited for the SF spot. But just the kind of
interchangable player Nellie loves. Nellie could use him at PF when
going with a small lineup (Spreewell at SF) or put Roges at PF asnd
Googs at SF. Or even that bizarre Bol/Siekaly combo they used against
Utah.
Plus two draft picks from the eternally weak bullets
Plus you get an obvious malcontent out-of -town...
Just do it!!
JimH
|
| 10.2483 | Howard and Webber together again... | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Thu Nov 17 1994 14:49 | 6 |
|
I think it's a good move for Washington. Webber might be a
self centered individual but he can play BB. With Webber in tow they
might get Juwan Howard to sign. Which would reunite college teammates.
Ron
|
| 10.2484 | Dr Howard? | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Thu Nov 17 1994 15:22 | 9 |
| The way I'm hearing it is that Webber goes to Washington if'n and onliest
if'n Howard signs.
If Washington does this then they deserver whatever they get. In less
than 2 years - MAX - Webber'll be crying again with another series of
demands. And meanwhile, the Bullets are playing better'n they have in a
long time with Googs, Chapman, Skiles, et.al.
TTom
|
| 10.2485 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | Dawgs RULE, Pats SIP! | Thu Nov 17 1994 15:56 | 3 |
| 10.2486 | Howard will be a great pro!!! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Thu Nov 17 1994 16:49 | 7 |
| Au contraire. Juwan Howard was a man among boys in college and
will be an exceptional power forward in the pros. He's got a nice
shot, is a tenacious rebounder, is willing to do the dirty work
underneath, defends well, and unlike his former college teammate, plays
as a team.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2487 | IMNSHO | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Lets Go Hoyas | Thu Nov 17 1994 17:09 | 6 |
|
Nazz is right. I think in overall ability he was the best of the
Fab 5!!!
Chap
|
| 10.2488 | Howard ready to sign | HBAHBA::HAAS | And this am the way it goes. | Thu Nov 17 1994 18:52 | 4 |
| This afternoon's rumor has Howard ready to sign with the Bullets and than
the Webber for Googs/plus is being painted as a done deal.
TTom
|
| 10.2489 | Warriors now Pacific Dividion favorites with Gugliotta | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Fri Nov 18 1994 13:13 | 7 |
| Great deal for the Warriors. Got rid of a head case for a truly
unselfish team player. Webber may be more spectacular, but their
numbers lasted year were virtually identical. Plus the three 1st round
picks will most likely give them better selections than what they
traded to Orlando to get Webber in the first place.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2490 | Watch out for the Warriors | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Fri Nov 18 1994 14:25 | 9 |
| > Plus the three 1st round picks
This reminds me of the Herchel Walker/Minnesota Vikings/Dallas Cowboys
trade that led to the Cowboys championships and wealth of talent.
We'll have to wait and see how this turns out but my initial impression
is that the Warriors got the best of this deal. And they are already
a good team.
Keith
|
| 10.2500 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | Dawgs RULE, Pats SIP! | Fri Nov 18 1994 16:38 | 2 |
| 10.2501 | Nelson blew it it says here | 25022::BREEN | Of yew wood, the true wood | Fri Nov 18 1994 18:44 | 11 |
| I guess Nelson had to salvage something and one of those draft choices
could pay off but I doubt it; remember that was a #2 draft choice
originally which was swapped to #1 penny H. Gugliotta is not #1-#5
type of player.
This puts the bullets into serious contention in the east, assuredly a
playoff spot (this from the idiot that told you willis would take miami
heat to the playoffs - I forgot about coaching and team building).
Webber is one of the top 3 draft choices in the last 10 years and
losing him is a failure for Nelson and a coup for Wash.
|
| 10.2502 | | ROCK::HUBER | The Broncos are the BEST team in the NFL! | Fri Nov 18 1994 19:11 | 15 |
|
> I guess Nelson had to salvage something and one of those draft choices
> could pay off but I doubt it; remember that was a #2 draft choice
> originally which was swapped to #1 penny H. Gugliotta is not #1-#5
> type of player.
1) The GSW choice was #3, not #2.
2) Gugliotta certainly wasn't a #1-#5 type of player; he was picked
#6. B^) Given the depth of that draft (he was picked behind
Shaq, Zo, Laettner, Jimmy Jackson, and either LaPhonso Ellis
or Clarence Weatherspoon (can't remember which), that's no
disgrace.
Joe
|
| 10.2503 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Fri Nov 18 1994 19:45 | 19 |
|
Webber was the #1 pick in the draft, Bradley #2, and Penny #3. For
the argument that Googs and Webber's stats are the same. In this case
stats don't mean anything. Googs was a go to guy on a lousy team.
Webber was playing out of position at Center all year long, for a
pretty good team.
Don Nelson just prooved that his ego is just as big if not bigger
then Webbers. Which lineup would you take, Seikely, Webber, Mullin,
Hardaway, and Sprewell. or Substitute Googs for Webber. Here are the
stats, from a standard USA Today feed minus a few columns.
pts reb ast gm min fgm fga ftm fta orb reb stl to blk
--------------------------------------------------------
Chris Webber 1333 694 272 76 2438 572 1037 189 355 305 694 93 206 164
Tom Gugliotta 1333 728 276 78 2795 540 1159 213 311 189 728 172 247 51
Webber's upscale potential is so much greater. Plus, now being the
go to guy in Washington, watch out...
|
| 10.2504 | GS did the contract | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Nov 18 1994 20:17 | 14 |
| I'm not sure I understood Webber's contract from last year. Did he
have an option year this year? If so then why the big fuss about
Webber holding out? In my opinion any team that gives a short term
option year in a long term contract deserves what they MIGHT get.
Webber was ROY at roughly 20 or 21 years of age. They guy is going
to be a force in the league. Either GS pays up or shuts up.
Washington apparently got the better of this deal. Webber and Howard
will be a force in the near future (providing there are no contract
disputes). Also who knows what the draft will look like in a few years
from now? Maybe there will not even be a draft or maybe it will look
alot different from now. No doubt Nelson will get good production from
Gugliotta but he does not appear to be the player that Webber is or
will be.
|
| 10.2505 | Front Court Defensive Intimadation | STRATA::BARBIERI | God cares. | Mon Nov 21 1994 14:11 | 17 |
| The main thing I see Golden State losing is front court defensive
intimidation. Seikaly is a decent center and Gugliotti is a decent
forward. They'll get their points and their rebounds. BUT, when
an offense goes to the inside against these guys, the last thing
they will be is intimadated.
Webber was the ONE front court guy who could put some fear in an
opposing team's eye so far as front court interior defense is
concerned. Now Golden State has nobody.
How many blocks would one project with a front line of Seikaly,
Gugliotti, and Mullin.
Not many!
I would pound the inside constantly against that front line. Not
so with Webber.
|
| 10.2506 | | WMOIS::BALL_K | | Mon Nov 21 1994 15:39 | 9 |
| Have Carlos Rogers or Cliff Rozier shown anything yet this Year for
the Warriors ? Rogers appears to have the type of physique that would
tend to be a good shot blocker seem to bewould expect him to come up
the learning curve a bit slower, ala Vin Baker, because of inferior
college compettion)..... maybe these guys can soften the blow for G.S.,
still quite a loss...
Why couldn't M.L. come up with something, I would have gladly given up
Dino or Nique (heck I'd even throw in Sherman or Acie) to get Webber
|
| 10.2507 | No Salary slot | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Mon Nov 21 1994 16:11 | 10 |
|
According to Jackie McMullen's Sunday column. The Celtics did make
a call to the Warriors. Chris Webber signed for 2.08 million. ANY
player the Warriors got in return had to have a salary cap slot within
15% of that amount. Who would the Warriors want from the Celtics?
It probably would have had to be Dino, a PF for a PF. Dino's contract
doesn't come within 15% of 2.08. So the Celtics had nobody and no
salary slot. To think about getting Webber.
Ron
|
| 10.2508 | | ROCK::HUBER | The Broncos are the BEST team in the NFL! | Mon Nov 21 1994 16:14 | 11 |
|
> Have Carlos Rogers or Cliff Rozier shown anything yet this Year for
> the Warriors ?
Rogers has seen limited time as a result of his late signing and
an ankle sprain. He's looked good offensively and on the boards
when he has played; don't know about his defense, though.
Rozier's been available, but has been a frequent DNP-CD.
Joe
|
| 10.2509 | Tha Cap nonsense again-baseball say no to Caps | 25022::BREEN | Of yew wood, the true wood | Mon Nov 21 1994 17:26 | 5 |
| How in the world was Webber signed for 2.1 million (for Cap purposes).
How does he play for 2.1 and the likes of Dino Radja play for 4 mil.
Does he get a congressional seat and a vote in Congress?
|
| 10.2510 | | 57045::FRANCUS | There is no joy in Mudville | Mon Nov 21 1994 20:23 | 5 |
| Webber was resigned by GS; he had a one year and out type deal. Teams
can re-sign their own free agents for any amount.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2511 | seems cheap at that price | 25022::BREEN | And what of the shaft | Mon Nov 21 1994 20:42 | 1 |
| But my point was why so low?
|
| 10.2512 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Tue Nov 22 1994 11:53 | 6 |
|
Webber signed for so little, because they setup the trade before
Webber was signed. So Webber had a choice sign for this amount and be
traded to Washington. Or stay here and sulk.
Ron
|
| 10.2513 | The early restricted free agency is a way around the salary cap | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Will edit for food | Wed Nov 23 1994 12:23 | 21 |
| Webber wanted huge money, as befitting a #1 pick. GS had only a $2.3
million slot to place him in. They extended the contract with maximum
allowable raises for so many years to guarantee him big bucks and
security. The one year renegotiation thing was to allow Webber an out
if things didn't work out. The NBA would have to allow him to sign for
whatever he wanted, since their salary cap rule says a player can
re-sign with his current team without impacting the salary cap.
That's why Webber has a two year and out deal in Washington. He will
play for a couple of years, then pout, whine, sit out, demand the
world, and get himself traded. Mark my words.
As far as being an inside intimidator, I don't think so. He's barely
6-9, and will not play center for the Bullets. He is an inside
presence on offense and a strong rebounder, but a questionable
defender. Carlos Rogers, at 6-11 and with an instinct for blocking
shots, is already a better defender than Webber, and his recent 21
points and 10 rebounds in 23 minutes game showed, he has a lot of NBA
potential.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2514 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Wed Nov 23 1994 12:56 | 6 |
| Nazz,
I thought Juwan Howard signed the long contract with a 2 year out
and Webber signed a one year deal? One of them only signed for 1 year.
Ron
|
| 10.2515 | My meager knowledge of Cap | 25022::BREEN | And what of the shaft | Wed Nov 23 1994 14:58 | 16 |
| As you say a team can resign a player to a salary which puts them over
the 'cap or if already over can go furthur over with the resigning.
And they can do this to all their current players.
If over the cap though I assume this is where the "slot" business comes
in. They can trade slot for a slot (a at 1 mil for b @ 1 mil) I am
guessing.
It is just that when over or near cap that a free agent signing becomes
difficult or impossible (Orlando couldn't sign 'Saw at #12 reserve
guard they're so high, right).
Anybooks out there like "Slots for Morons", "100 Ways to Beat the
Cap"..?
billte
|
| 10.2516 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Theresa's Sound World | Mon Nov 28 1994 19:08 | 11 |
|
reason number 42 why Derrick Coleman makes the all-Childs' team.....
Butch Beard was trying to institute a dress code for the team, suits and
ties BS, 500 dollar fine for not wearing them. Coleman walks up to him
last week, hands him a blank check and tells him to fill it for the amount
he wants to cover the fines for the year cause DC's dressing the way DC wants.
I just wish Riley had to put up with him that would make my day....
;^)
|
| 10.2517 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Mon Nov 28 1994 19:26 | 3 |
|
Doesn't surprise me from Derrick "I practice if I feel like it"
Coleman.
|
| 10.2518 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Nov 28 1994 19:39 | 7 |
|
There was a piece on ESPN about the resurgence of the Mavericks
with Dick Motta and Jamal, Jason and Jimmy. One of the first things
that Motta did was to institute a dress code on road trips. You are
a professional, you will wear a coat and tie. If I were DC's coach
I would have filled out the blank check for the full amount of his
yearly salary.
|
| 10.2519 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Nov 28 1994 20:02 | 2 |
| There are 4 J's on the Mavs now, not 3. Jamal, Jason, Jimmy, and
Popeye Jones are all playing some great ball right now.
|
| 10.2520 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Tue Nov 29 1994 14:12 | 4 |
| I always hated dress codes. DC should be able to dress how he likes.
Like the suit makes a difference.
Jimbo
|
| 10.2521 | Embry takes on Nike, Rodman | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Mon Dec 05 1994 17:03 | 16 |
| More Rodman controversy:
Rodman is in a new Nike commercial wherein hte tells Santa he wants some
new whoes. Santa tells Rodman that he led the league in personal fouls
and ejections (with clips showing why). Santa tells Rodman he didn't
follow the rules, skipped practice and was suspended. Rodman says that he
also led the league in rebounds at which point he picks Santa up and
Santa tells a_elf to give him the shoes.
The Cavs GM Wayne Embry dislikes the message by Nike: nothing matters,
not discipline, not the team, nothing, as long as you lead the league in
rebounds. Embry has written a letter to Nike owner Phil Knight, who also
has a small stake in the Suns, complaining that this should not be the
message to young people.
TTom
|
| 10.2522 | And Embry was always a bit of a stuffed shirt | AKOCOA::BREEN | But in the land of the One-eyed Men | Tue Dec 06 1994 21:01 | 9 |
| worse than that Tom is that the message is that violence and threats
therof is the ultimate decision maker. This is a very prevalent and
sick message.
but since the commercial's intent was humorous and kids are pretty
smart this ad is probably harmless. And kids today see so much and
hear so much the impact of any one message is minimized.
I still think Barkley is a worse example than Rodman anyway.
|
| 10.2523 | the ultimate act of poor taste | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Dec 06 1994 21:58 | 1 |
| Barkley was worse until Rodman married Madonna.
|
| 10.2524 | Da Clips has won | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Dec 08 1994 15:01 | 6 |
| The Los Angeles Clippers escaped another level of ignominy by finally
winning a game. They beat the bucks lasted night, 96-94 in OT. Pooh
Richardson hit the game winning shot at the buzzer. All 5000 or so people
in the crowd acted like they had won the NBA championship.
TTom
|
| 10.2525 | GO CLIPPERS! WHAT A TEAM!! | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | CasinoMania | Thu Dec 08 1994 15:45 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2526 | THE PAPER CLIPS! | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 08 1994 17:02 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2527 | Rodman suspended | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Dec 08 1994 17:17 | 12 |
| Oh yeah, here's some real news...
Dennis Rodman was suspened without pay by the Spurs. Rodman was scheduled
to end a month long leave of absence. He was supposed to show up for
practice yesterday, pulled a no show, called a little later to say he
couldn't make it cause of something to do with his car, and the Spurs
told him to sit a little longer, this time without pay.
The Spurs are saying that they don't wanna trade him but one can only
wonder who'd want him anyway.
TTom
|
| 10.2528 | The invisible team | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Fri Dec 09 1994 11:29 | 12 |
| Now that I think of it, I was in LA for four weeks in October, reading
the LA Times sports section every day, but I scarcely remember anything
about the Clippers. The Lakers get a lot of ink, but the Clippers made
no dents in my memory.
This is an expansion team that has remained an expansion team, evidently.
Question for TTom or anyone else: I know they've run through coaches
at a high rate, but what about the people responsible for putting the
team together? Is Elgin Baylor still in there somewhere? Who else is
to be credited with creating possibly the worst team in NBA history?
Steve
|
| 10.2529 | Mail from an ex-DECcie | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | We're #5 Baby; that's not too bad! | Fri Dec 09 1994 13:24 | 43 |
| From: US1RMC::"joshr@wimsey.com" "Josh Rice" 9-DEC-1994 10:00:32.20
To: tnpubs::nazzaro
CC:
Subj: KINGS ROOL!
steve -
BTW, I watched the second half of the Kings-Sonics game lasted night. I
could not believe my eyes. The Kings are a FORCE!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA! I am not
making this up. Brian Grant and (I knew it!) Michael Smith are simply
awesome. The Sonics were cruising along with a 10-15 point lead until
halfway through the third quarter, when the Kings put in a lineup of Grant,
Smith, Walt Williams, Mitch Richmond and Spud Webb and just took over. The
Supes were helpless. On the defensive end Smith and Grant are incredible.
They blocked something like 6 layups in a row. They were all over the floor.
Smith brings more energy and desire to the floor than anyone I can remember,
and Grant is just an amazing athlete. On the offensive end Walt Williams
took over at point-forward. When he is on his game he looks like Penny - the
man can *pass*. And Richmond, of course, was raining treys down on the Supes
like a Seattle winter storm. It was some of the best basketball I've seen in
years. By the end of the season these guys could be a major factor.
josh
PS - Post this if it's not too much trouble. I'd love to hear MikeH comment
on the Suns facing the Kings in May ;);)
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|
| 10.2530 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Fri Dec 09 1994 13:47 | 15 |
|
According to Sportscenter this morning, the Kings hung a 30-1
scoring run (yes Thirty-to-One!!!) on the Sonics during their big
comeback!!!!
Wow
JimH
P.S. Didn't somebody just say in here yesterday that Micheal Smith
was the steal of lasted year's draft? Whoever said it is a
genius!!!! :-)
|
| 10.2531 | something to really cry and whine about | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Fri Dec 09 1994 14:07 | 5 |
| Kendall Gill: 12 mins, 1-3 fg, 0-0 ft, 0-1 rbs, 0 assists, 4 pfs, 2 tps.
ALL PRO! ONE OF FIVE BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE!
TTom
|
| 10.2532 | He fell in the draft when the NBA found out he was 6-6, not 6-8 | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | We're #5 Baby; that's not too bad! | Fri Dec 09 1994 15:06 | 6 |
| Hey JimH - that wouldn't have been you who mentioned Smith as the steal
of the draft, would it? ;-)
Glad to see you never miss a chance to pat yourself on the back!
NAZZ
|
| 10.2533 | Barnes - shame on you | AKOCOA::BREEN | NCAA: Noxious Cabal of Avarice and Arrogance | Fri Dec 09 1994 19:07 | 8 |
| The bigger question would be wherefore Providence with all the future
NBAers?
I remember watching them against Syracuse and thinking that there was a
team with talent but outside of a run in the NIT they never did much.
Of course ncaa bypassed them in '93. No sense going into that again,
no one's interested except George (a little).
|
| 10.2534 | Celtics look like contenders with Ellison healthy | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | We're #5 Baby; that's not too bad! | Tue Dec 13 1994 13:23 | 14 |
| Had the privilege of watching the best point guard in the NBA lasted
night. No, not Sherman Douglas in his return to the Garden. I'm
talking about Robert Pack. He's everything that KJ wishes he could be.
Pack's numbers last night were astounding: 5-9 from the field
(including 2-2 in 3-pointers) 2-2 from the line, 3 rebounds, and a
whopping 19 assists!!! And these weren't Madison-Square-Garden-pad-the
home-team assists - these were legit! He was tremendous.
But just as tremendous was Pervis Ellison. He was everything ML Carr
hoped he'd be when he signed him. Never Nervous Pervis was 8-13 from
the field, 3-3 from the line with 10 rebounds, 2 blocks, and most
incredibly 3 charges taken. He was an inspiration!
NAZZ
|
| 10.2535 | good stats | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Tue Dec 13 1994 13:26 | 8 |
| Nazz,
We know all them assists you mark down are fer real ;-).
I caught a couple of clips on this game. Pack and Ellison did look good.
Deke looked like he's a major funk.
TTom
|
| 10.2536 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Dec 13 1994 13:51 | 4 |
| Re: Pack vs KJ
sounds like half a game's worth of work for KJ. Let me know when Pack
gets 25 assists in a game and we'll talk.
|
| 10.2537 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Tue Dec 13 1994 14:02 | 7 |
|
|We know all them assists you mark down are fer real ;-).
Actually, the announcers on the Celtics station commented
that the Gahden was "a tough place to get assists".
Good job, NAZZ.
|
| 10.2538 | Answers one big question | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Dec 13 1994 15:02 | 21 |
| Well I didn't see stats in today's Globe but I'd guess Ellison had 30+
minutes. Hope he can handle that, it seems that he did wait until in
complete shape to come back.
This answers Teddy Sarandis' faux question about what to do about
Radja's injury and poses the question about where to find Radja's
minutes when he comes back.
Again I'm not completely down on Dino and would probably put him ahead
of X. I did finally see Wilkins at New Jersey and frankly I never
thought it was that bad. Nique's legs are so far gone that he travels
every time he tries to move but his status so far is saving him.
Was Dominique effective last night? This may be where Dino's minutes
come from but that's a big $swallow.
It will be very interesting watching the minutes under Casey on this
road trip although injuries may make playing time available (say to
Blue with Fox hurting).
You may see Celtics do very well under Casey.
|
| 10.2539 | I like PackMan | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Tue Dec 13 1994 15:13 | 14 |
| Believe it or not, there are still people in Colorado who want to trade
PackMan. I'm not one of them. He blossomed last year in the playoffs
and came on strong early in the season. A couple of weeks ago, he had back
spasms and spent some time in the hospital. Since then, his game was been
tentative and the trade talk picked up again. From your description of his
play, it sounds like the back problem is much better.
One thing I really like is how fearless the little guy is when he takes
it to the hoop and dunks on the best big men. Another thing that he doesn't
get much credit for is his defense. The people who play against him feel
like they're bumping against a fireplug for 30 minutes a night. He leaves
his opponents totally exhausted.
Keith
|
| 10.2540 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | CasinoMania | Tue Dec 13 1994 15:22 | 3 |
| Pervis looks a little more mobile than the 0, don't he?
/Don
|
| 10.2541 | The clock is ticking on the nexted knee injury... | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Tue Dec 13 1994 15:37 | 13 |
|
> Pervis looks a little more mobile than the 0, don't he?
Yes, but he also looks like his knees will snap the first
time Shaq leans against him in the post!
He definitely has a "Bradley-esque" physique....
JimH
|
| 10.2542 | Nique is definitely showing his age | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | We're #5 Baby; that's not too bad! | Tue Dec 13 1994 18:19 | 8 |
| Pervis played 32 minutes lasted night.
Nique had another useless game, shooting a mere 5-17, including 1-5 in
3-pointers, in 39 minutes. It makes sense to me to cut down on his
minutes, but I doubt that it will happen because he'll start to pout
and the Celtics sincerely want to have one happy family.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2543 | Met him in Cheetah's in Atlanta | MKFSA::LONG | | Tue Dec 13 1994 18:26 | 6 |
| As long as Dominique continues to buy me drinks on my birthday
he'll be my #1 'basketbrawl' player. I don't care how poorly he
does on the court.
billl
|
| 10.2544 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Dec 13 1994 18:27 | 1 |
| Now that Nique is older he *REALLY* sweats too much!
|
| 10.2545 | Heiser Formula on the '94 Rookies | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Dec 14 1994 18:18 | 27 |
| Top 10 Rookies
--------------
Player Pos G Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank
kidd,jason PG 14 36.2 9.1 6.214 6.5 2.571 120.4
hill,grant SF 16 37.8 19.6 5.438 4.188 3 115.0
marshall,donyell SF 17 28.1 13.5 5.882 1.765 2.941 91.02
wesley,david PG 16 31.7 7.8 2.375 5.625 1.75 84.96
robinson,glenn SF 15 32.9 17.9 5.667 2.067 1.333 75.99
jones,eddie SG 16 23.6 11 4.125 1.188 2.313 68.21
wright,sharone PF 12 26.2 12.1 6.917 .3333 1.583 65.24
grant,brian PF 13 18.9 9.9 5.077 .6154 1.692 58.70
montross,eric C 16 24.1 7.6 6.875 .25 1.313 56.39
person,wesley SG 16 25.2 11.9 3.5 1.5 1.313 55.88
Top 10 Overall
--------------
Player Pos G Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank
robinson,david C 15 41.7 29.5 13 3.733 4.667 175.7
olajuwon,hakeem C 15 40.5 26.8 11.33 3 5.533 171.3
pippen,scottie SF 16 37.6 22.9 8.313 5.625 4.375 159.9
stockton,john PG 17 33.9 15 2.765 11.18 2.647 149.1
strickland,rod PG 4 32.8 18.8 5.25 9.75 2 144.0
webber,chris PF 6 33.8 16.8 10.83 2.333 4.5 140.5
blaylock,mookie PG 16 38.6 13.6 4.875 8.75 2.813 139.9
o'neal,shaquille C 15 36.4 31 11.07 2.6 3.067 139.2
divac,vlade C 16 34.0 14.9 9.313 2.813 4.438 134.9
mutombo,dikembe C 15 39.5 9.3 12.93 1.267 4.533 134.1
|
| 10.2546 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Wed Dec 14 1994 18:22 | 15 |
|
> Top 10 Rookies
> --------------
>Player Pos G Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank
>wesley,david PG 16 31.7 7.8 2.375 5.625 1.75 84.96
Wesley is not a rookie. He played (barely) for New Jersey
lasted year....
JimH
|
| 10.2547 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Dec 14 1994 18:42 | 2 |
| so he was a volunteer at rookie camp. Then that makes Michael Smith
the #10 rookie.
|
| 10.2548 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin | Wed Dec 14 1994 18:46 | 14 |
|
>so he was a volunteer at rookie camp. Then that makes Michael Smith
>the #10 rookie.
Rookie/Free Agent camp....
Micheal Smith???? Wasn't somebody in here last week saying Smith
was the steal of lasted year's draft??? Who ever he was, he's a
genius!!!!
JimH :-)
|
| 10.2549 | Makes no sense | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | We're #5 Baby; that's not too bad! | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:08 | 5 |
| Really pushin' your luck, aren't yoou JimH? ;-)
How could Jason Kidd be listed ahead of Grant Hill???
NAZZ
|
| 10.2550 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:27 | 8 |
| Nazz,
I was wondering the same thing. How the heck can .8 Rpg's and
2.4 Apg. Give Kidd a better rating when he scores 10.5 Ppg less and
.5 Dpg's less? I know that RPG, and APG are weighted more, but that
much more?
Ron
|
| 10.2551 | always settles the PG debate too | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:27 | 15 |
| > Really pushin' your luck, aren't yoou JimH? ;-)
If you look at the "Rank" column, anything in the 50s isn't all that
great. You have to go through most of the NBA to get that low. For
example, there isn't an all-star or potential all-star below 100. Look
at the top 10 overall, they're way up there with the Admiral #1 so far
this season.
> How could Jason Kidd be listed ahead of Grant Hill???
Because Kidd has better overall numbers in this system (Points,
Rebounds, Assists, and Defense), which has been dead-on accurate since
I invented it. I've explained the algorithm many times before.
Mike
|
| 10.2552 | based on overall game, and what stats are easier to attain | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:38 | 30 |
| > I was wondering the same thing. How the heck can .8 Rpg's and
> 2.4 Apg. Give Kidd a better rating when he scores 10.5 Ppg less and
> .5 Dpg's less? I know that RPG, and APG are weighted more, but that
> much more?
Here's how you calculate the scalars that determine the weighted value:
1. Sum total Points, Rebounds, Assists, and Defense (Steals & Assists) for
the entire NBA.
2. Individually sum each of these 4 categories for the entire NBA.
3. Take each category (Step 2) and divide it into the Total (step 1)
In the 5 years or so I've been doing this, the scalars never vary by
more than 1 and the Points scalar is always equal to ~1. Here are the
current scalars:
Points = 1.770
Rebounds = 4.334
Assists = 7.849
Defense = 12.98
4. Multiply each scalar times a player's per game average for each of
the 4 categories to determine their Heiser score.
This is the best reflection of a players overall worth I've seen and is
extremely accurate. For all the years of stats I have online, there is
no question the top 10. For example, Bird, Magic, and Jordan were
*ALWAYS* in the top 10 since they have such a well-rounded game.
Mike
|
| 10.2553 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:39 | 11 |
|
>> Because Kidd has better overall numbers in this system (Points,
>> Rebounds, Assists, and Defense), which has been dead-on accurate
>> since I invented it.
Dead on accurate at what? Proving whatever it is that you want it
to? Your little system like the QB rating system may be a (very)
rough guideline but it's no more a definitive measure of who is
the best rookie in the league than phrenology is. The real answer
to any "who's best" question is to ask "who would you build your
team around?"
|
| 10.2554 | field general | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:41 | 6 |
| > the best rookie in the league than phrenology is. The real answer
> to any "who's best" question is to ask "who would you build your
> team around?"
You start with a point-guard. You can't name a champion that didn't
have a very good point-guard. He's the QB of the team.
|
| 10.2555 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:49 | 12 |
|
>> You start with a point-guard. You can't name a champion that didn't
>> have a very good point-guard. He's the QB of the team.
You can't name a champ that didn't have a good just about anything.
Chicago was a three-time champ but their point guard certainly wasn't
a critical reason why. And Houston was built around Hakeem. Your
little system is real nice but when you defend it by pointing out
that Magic, Bird and Jordan were always in the top ten that really
isn't much of a defense at all. Who'd you have rated higher than each
of them? KJ? Please.
|
| 10.2556 | Even Couz couldn't bring Celts a championship | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come Monday... | Wed Dec 14 1994 19:54 | 16 |
| Wrong, as Red has said for years the ability to play interior defense
and rebound (power forward (rebounding) and center (defense)) is the
critical area.
When Cartwright and Grant became part of Bulls they won; The addition
of Rodman to Pistons put them over the top. Celts had Mchale.
The closest exception would be Magic with Lakers but his rebounding
(when they needed it) was a big factor. Magic was most unique player
ever.
so for the rookies and second year players you would take Webber to
start your franchise and then Big Dog.
But if I was to get tickets for any game this year I'd like to see
Dallas and Kidd - a lot more entertaining than watching Webber.
|
| 10.2557 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Dec 14 1994 20:01 | 65 |
| > You can't name a champ that didn't have a good just about anything.
> Chicago was a three-time champ but their point guard certainly wasn't
Jordan handled the ball at least 80% of the time.
> that Magic, Bird and Jordan were always in the top ten that really
> isn't much of a defense at all. Who'd you have rated higher than each
> of them? KJ? Please.
Usually the Admiral or Hakeem. KJ is in the top 3 PG's, but usually in
the teens for overall, he was in the top 10 only 2 of the last 5 years.
Here's a snapshot:
1990
Player G MIN REB AST STL BLK PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RANK DEC
1 OLAJUWON,A 56 2062 770 131 121 221 1187 2430 36.8 21.2 13.8 2.3 6.1 181.8 37.3
2 STOCKTON,J 82 3103 237 1164 234 16 1413 3064 37.8 17.2 2.9 14.2 3.0 179.2 34.3
3 ROBINSON,D 82 3095 1063 208 127 320 2101 3819 37.7 25.6 13.0 2.5 5.5 175.4 41.1
4 JOHNSON,MAG 79 2933 551 989 102 17 1531 3190 37.1 19.4 7.0 12.5 1.5 165.4 38.9
5 EWING,P 81 3104 905 244 80 258 2154 3641 38.3 26.6 11.2 3.0 4.2 154.8 40.8
6 ADAMS,M 66 2346 256 693 147 6 1752 2854 35.5 26.5 3.9 10.5 2.3 154.8 40.9
7 HARDAWAY,T 82 3215 332 793 214 12 1881 3232 39.2 22.9 4.0 9.7 2.8 151.6 36.7
8 JORDAN,M 82 3034 492 453 223 83 2580 3831 37 31.5 6.0 5.5 3.7 150.3 43.0
9 BIRD,L 60 2277 509 431 108 58 1164 2270 38.0 19.4 8.5 7.2 2.8 148.5 35.1
10 PRICE,M 16 571 45 166 42 2 271 526 35.7 16.9 2.8 10.4 2.8 145.5 30.1
;)11 JOHNSON,K 77 2772 271 781 163 11 1710 2936 36 22.2 3.5 10.1 2.3 145.4 35.9
1992
Player G MIN REB AST STL BLK PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RANK DEC
1 David Robinson 68 2564 829 181 158 305 1578 3051 37.71 23.21 12.19 2.662 6.809 186.2 38.06
2 John Stockton 82 3002 270 1126 244 22 1297 2959 36.61 15.82 3.293 13.73 3.244 178.2 32.84
3 Hakeem Olajuwon 70 2636 845 157 127 304 1510 2943 37.66 21.57 12.07 2.243 6.157 172.2 35.89
4 Scottie Pippen 82 3164 630 572 155 93 1720 3170 38.59 20.98 7.683 6.976 3.024 147.5 35.63
5 Michael Jordan 80 3102 511 489 182 75 2404 3661 38.78 30.05 6.388 6.113 3.213 146.9 42.55
6 Tim Hardaway 81 3332 310 807 164 13 1893 3187 41.14 23.37 3.827 9.963 2.185 145.1 37.16
7 Kevin Johnson 78 2894 292 836 116 23 1536 2803 37.10 19.69 3.744 10.72 1.782 141.5 34.15
8 Clyde Drexler 76 2751 500 512 138 70 1903 3123 36.20 25.04 6.579 6.737 2.737 141.2 38.36
9 Patrick Ewing 82 3150 921 156 88 245 1970 3380 38.41 24.02 11.23 1.902 4.061 140.7 37.16
10 Pervis Ellison 66 2511 740 190 62 177 1322 2491 38.05 20.03 11.21 2.879 3.621 138.3 34.12
1993
Player Team PO GP MIN REBT ASST STL BLKS PTS TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RANK DEC
1 Hakeem Olajuwon HOU C 82 3242 1068 291 150 342 2140 3991 39.5 26.1 13.0 3.55 6 191. 42.7
2 David Robinson SAS C 82 3211 956 301 127 262 1916 3562 39.2 23.4 11.7 3.67 4.74 166. 38.7
3 Shaquille O'Neal ORL C 81 3071 1122 152 60 286 1893 3513 37.9 23.4 13.9 1.88 4.27 156. 39.1
4 John Stockton UTH G 82 2863 237 987 199 21 1239 2683 34.9 15.1 2.89 12.0 2.68 155. 30.0
5 Charles Barkley PHO F 76 2859 928 385 119 74 1944 3450 37.6 25.6 12.2 5.07 2.54 151. 42.9
6 Michael Jordan CHI G 77 3025 513 420 215 60 2501 3709 39.3 32.5 6.66 5.45 3.57 151. 44.6
7 Tim Hardaway GSW G 66 2609 263 699 116 12 1419 2509 39.5 21.5 3.98 10.6 1.94 145. 36.1
8 Scottie Pippen CHI F 80 3079 613 501 170 71 1480 2835 38.5 18.5 7.66 6.26 3.01 140. 32.4
9 Karl Malone UTH F 82 3099 919 308 124 85 2217 3653 37.8 27.0 11.2 3.76 2.55 139. 42
10 Dikembe Mutombo DEN C 82 3029 1070 147 43 284 1131 2675 36.9 13.8 13.0 1.79 3.99 138. 28.6
1994
Team G MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TTL Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg RANK DEC NBA
ROBINSON,D 80 3241 2383 855 381 139 265 4023 40.51 29.79 10.69 4.763 5.05 176.5 45.24 50.29
OLAJUWON,A 80 3277 2184 955 287 128 297 3851 40.96 27.3 11.94 3.588 5.313 173.9 42.83 48.14
STOCKTON,J 82 2969 1236 258 1031 199 22 2746 36.21 15.07 3.146 12.57 2.695 157.8 30.79 33.49
O'NEAL,S 81 3224 2377 1072 195 76 231 3951 39.80 29.35 13.23 2.407 3.790 152.9 44.99 48.78
BLAYLOCK,M 81 2915 1118 424 789 212 44 2587 35.99 13.80 5.235 9.741 3.160 150.2 28.78 31.94
PIPPEN,S 72 2759 1587 629 403 211 58 2888 38.32 22.04 8.736 5.597 3.736 149.7 36.38 40.11
MALONE,K 82 3329 2063 940 328 125 126 3582 40.60 25.16 11.46 4 3.061 143.7 40.62 43.68
EWING,P 79 2972 1939 885 179 90 217 3310 37.62 24.54 11.20 2.266 3.886 139.6 38.01 41.90
MUTOMBO,D 82 2853 986 971 127 59 336 2479 34.79 12.02 11.84 1.549 4.817 136.5 25.41 30.23
ANDERSON,K 82 3135 1538 322 784 158 15 2817 38.23 18.76 3.927 9.561 2.110 134.6 32.24 34.35
|
| 10.2558 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Theresa's Sound World | Thu Dec 15 1994 11:54 | 7 |
|
Grant Hill is a special player and I'd take him on my team anytime but if
I was starting out, I'd start with Kidd. I think he has more of the Bird-
Magic formula to make those around him better while Grant has the Michael
do-it-all individually routine down pat........
mike
|
| 10.2559 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Thu Dec 15 1994 12:25 | 8 |
|
>>>You start with a point-guard. You can't name a champion that didn't
>>>have a very good point-guard. He's the QB of the team.
Is this why the Suns didn't win the NBA Championship last year?
They didn't have a very good point-guard? :^)
Ron
|
| 10.2560 | Kidd needs to improve shooting as many do in nba | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come Monday... | Thu Dec 15 1994 12:48 | 8 |
| How has Kidd's shooting been? Magic didn't shoot well out of college
but as we here can attest became quite good with that one handed set
shot.
Was watching Penn beat Michigan the other night and Vitale compared
some kid with Cousy's one hander where indeed he did bend the knee.
Cousy was quite accurate but took the shot from outside; he never took
a jump shot in his life.
|
| 10.2561 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 14:04 | 5 |
| > Is this why the Suns didn't win the NBA Championship last year?
> They didn't have a very good point-guard? :^)
Ron, good thing you said that in jest, or people would think you don't
know anything about hoops.
|
| 10.2562 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Thu Dec 15 1994 14:26 | 7 |
| >> Ron, good thing you said that in jest, or people would think you don't
>> know anything about hoops.
Yeah, people might be liable to lump you in with Heiser. Mikey, all
the best pure point guards watched the Finals on tv last year and have
since Magic last brought it all home.
|
| 10.2563 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Thu Dec 15 1994 14:45 | 4 |
| 10.2564 | here have a clue! | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 15:40 | 6 |
| > Yeah, people might be liable to lump you in with Heiser. Mikey, all
> the best pure point guards watched the Finals on tv last year and have
> since Magic last brought it all home.
...or lump you in with Brydie who thinks Jordan and Isiah didn't play
PG, both of whom brought titles home after Magic's last one.
|
| 10.2565 | don't let facts get in Groaner's way | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 15:47 | 14 |
| > Another typical KJ year... he's appeared in 6 of his team's 20 games.
> FACE IT MIKE, Cleveland traded the right point guard. Price is better
> than KJ.
Let's see, what the facts state over the last 5 years:
Player Games Played Games Possible Pct
Mark Price 255 410 62%
KJ 348 410 85%
toss in a better all-around game and better stats and you have yet
another blunder trade by the Cleveland Cadavers.
Mike
|
| 10.2566 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Thu Dec 15 1994 16:15 | 11 |
|
>> ...or lump you in with Brydie who thinks Jordan and Isiah didn't play
>> PG,
Mikey will say anything but "I'm wrong" that includes trying to tell
us that Kareem was the focal point of the Lakers. I'll grant you Isaiah
but no way Jordan was a point guard. It wasn't his job to handle the
ball and distribute it. If having the ball the vast majority of time
is all that's required to fit the definition of point guard then
Dominique was a point guard early on in his career and so wasn't Bird.
|
| 10.2567 | very big of you | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 16:21 | 1 |
| thanks for the "apology" and admitting you're "wrong."
|
| 10.2568 | | ROCK::HUBER | Most folks call them green onions, but they're really scallions | Thu Dec 15 1994 16:24 | 25 |
|
> Let's see, what the facts state over the last 5 years:
>
> Player Games Played Games Possible Pct
> Mark Price 255 410 62%
> KJ 348 410 85%
Well, yes, this is true (or, at least, I'm willing to take
it for granted that it is). But it's not exactly a fair comparison,
now is it? Price missed one big chunk of time (over a season) due
to a freak, single injury (his torn ACL). Johnson's missed his games
with a variety of ailments.
Personally, I think the more recent numbers numbers are more relevant:
last year, Price played in 76 games, Johnson 67; so far this year,
Johnson's missed 14 games, Price 1.
> toss in a better all-around game and better stats and you have yet
> another blunder trade by the Cleveland Cadavers.
Ummm... better all-around game? I'll take Price's game, short or
long term, over Johnson's, thank you. And Johnson wasn't exactly
traded for dirt; Larry Nance was a two time all-star for Cleveland.
Joe
|
| 10.2569 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 16:30 | 21 |
| > now is it? Price missed one big chunk of time (over a season) due
> to a freak, single injury (his torn ACL). Johnson's missed his games
Groaner wasn't debating freak accidents, he was accusing KJ of missing
more games. KJ has never missed virtually a whole season, Price has.
> Personally, I think the more recent numbers numbers are more relevant:
> last year, Price played in 76 games, Johnson 67; so far this year,
> Johnson's missed 14 games, Price 1.
the season is young...
> Ummm... better all-around game? I'll take Price's game, short or
> long term, over Johnson's, thank you. And Johnson wasn't exactly
> traded for dirt; Larry Nance was a two time all-star for Cleveland.
You can have him. Price is a Camaro. KJ is a Lamborghini.
Larry Nance + Mike Sanders for KJ, Mark West, Ty Corbin, and a
first-round pick that turned out to be Dan Majerle. After all was said
and done, you gave up 2 All-Stars for 1.
|
| 10.2570 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Thu Dec 15 1994 17:05 | 8 |
| 10.2571 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Thu Dec 15 1994 17:11 | 8 |
|
>> thanks for the "apology" and admitting you're "wrong."
I didn't apologize. And you glossed over the part where I
pointed out that you were wrong. You really ought to try
telling the truth and being forthright, Mikey. You might
find it a refreshing change.
|
| 10.2572 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 17:35 | 8 |
| You fail to point out the obvious, Thomas. Jordan was a shooting
guard, but he still ran the team. Who had the ball, bringing it up
court and calling the play in crunch time? BJ Armstrong?! Don't make
me laugh. From all the stats I have online, Jordan also averaged at
least 6 assists per game, which is much more than Armstrong and half of
the so-called PG's in the league.
Mike
|
| 10.2573 | | ROCK::HUBER | Most folks call them green onions, but they're really scallions | Thu Dec 15 1994 18:26 | 23 |
|
>> Personally, I think the more recent numbers numbers are more relevant:
>> last year, Price played in 76 games, Johnson 67; so far this year,
>> Johnson's missed 14 games, Price 1.
> the season is young...
Yup, and Johnson's already up by 13... B^)
IMHO, Price is a better bet, at this point, to remain healthy in the
near future (next year or two).
> Larry Nance + Mike Sanders for KJ, Mark West, Ty Corbin, and a
> first-round pick that turned out to be Dan Majerle. After all was said
> and done, you gave up 2 All-Stars for 1.
How many all-star appearances have Johnson & Majerle had? (Believe
it or not, I'm not trying to make a point with this statement, just
gathering information.) I wouldn't argue that the Suns got more
value in the deal than Cleveland, anyway - just that each team got
good value, and that the trade wasn't a blunder for either team.
Joe
|
| 10.2574 | standard deviation | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 19:54 | 13 |
| someone asked about the consistency of my scalars and I was even
surprised at the results. Looks good enough to declare a constant.
Points Rebounds Assists Defense
1990 1.77 4.35 7.6 13.6
1991 1.77 4.349 7.604 13.6
1992 1.782 4.296 7.665 13.25
1993 1.77 4.33 7.56 13.6
1994 1.803 4.256 7.503 12.97
Present 1.77 4.339 7.838 13
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mean 1.7775 4.32 7.6283 13.3366
Std Dev .0122 .0338 .1057 .2778
|
| 10.2575 | corrected top 10 Rookies and Overall | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Dec 15 1994 20:32 | 27 |
| Ron just alerted me to a slight problem with my spreadsheet (cell
reference mistake). Here are the corrected results (must be this
Pentium).
Player Pos G Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank
hill,grant SF 16 37.8 19.6 5.438 4.188 3 130.1
kidd,jason PG 14 36.2 9.1 6.214 6.5 2.571 127.5
marshall,donyell SF 17 28.1 13.5 5.882 1.765 2.941 101.5
robinson,glenn SF 15 32.9 17.9 5.667 2.067 1.333 89.80
jones,eddie SG 16 23.6 11 4.125 1.188 2.313 76.74
wright,sharone PF 12 26.2 12.1 6.917 .3333 1.583 74.63
grant,brian PF 13 18.9 9.9 5.077 .6154 1.692 66.38
person,wesley SG 16 25.2 11.9 3.5 1.5 1.313 65.07
montross,eric C 16 24.1 7.6 6.875 .25 1.313 62.31
smith,michael PF 15 23.7 10.3 6.2 .5333 .8667 60.58
Player Pos G Mpg Ppg Rpg Apg Dpg Rank
robinson,david C 15 41.7 29.5 13 3.733 4.667 198.6
olajuwon,hakeem C 15 40.5 26.8 11.33 3 5.533 192.1
pippen,scottie SF 16 37.6 22.9 8.313 5.625 4.375 177.6
o'neal,shaquille C 15 36.4 31 11.07 2.6 3.067 163.1
stockton,john PG 17 33.9 15 2.765 11.18 2.647 160.6
strickland,rod PG 4 32.8 18.8 5.25 9.75 2 158.5
webber,chris PF 6 33.8 16.8 10.83 2.333 4.5 153.5
blaylock,mookie PG 16 38.6 13.6 4.875 8.75 2.813 150.4
hardaway,anferne PG 15 36.6 23.6 4.6 6.6 2.733 149.0
malone,karl PF 17 35.9 24.8 9.882 3.471 2.588 147.6
|
| 10.2576 | ;>) | NWD002::JOYNER_GL | Did I do that? | Thu Dec 15 1994 21:54 | 4 |
| I'll end this Price/Johnson argument once and for all. Rod Strickland
is better than both of them!
Glen.
|
| 10.2577 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Fri Dec 16 1994 02:03 | 66 |
| 10.2578 | NIIIICE REEEEEVVVVEERRRBBBB IN THERE | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Dec 16 1994 02:28 | 2 |
| The only light you're shedding is the one in your right ear, which is
coming from outside your left ear.
|
| 10.2579 | | ROCK::HUBER | Most folks call them green onions, but they're really scallions | Fri Dec 16 1994 11:40 | 12 |
|
> I'll end this Price/Johnson argument once and for all. Rod Strickland
> is better than both of them!
Hmmm... interesting idea. He's a fine player, and certainly deserves
to be included in a discussion of "who's the best point guard in the
league right now" (which this wasn't), but I think I'd still take
Price, though if I was building a franchise (as opposed to trying to
win _now_), Strickland would be higher up my list (though, to be
honest, Penny would be on top currently).
Joe
|
| 10.2580 | Ramblings | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | God cares. | Fri Dec 16 1994 11:45 | 58 |
| Count me in as one who believes Jordan is not a true point
guard. He should be a number 2, but with the oppurtunity
to handle the ball a lot more. Actually, Jordan was so unique
that I don't think you can really peg him at any position.
In the cases of Jordan, Magic, its inaccurate to try to favor
a position as most important on the basis of players such as
Jordan and Magic. For crying out loud, Magic scored 50+ points
at center in the NBA finals his first year! And Jordan...well,
forget it. Don't try to rate the important of PG by utilizing
Jordan - thats absurd. The guy would have been an annual all
star at at least 4 positions.
Mike, I concur with you on Kidd. Being a Bucks fan, I of course
hope the Big Dog is the man of the draft. But, Kidd is so
intriguing. He's the kind of guy that might only have 9 points,
but may have won the game with a couple steals, a rebound, a
pass - whatever. I think Kidd may very well end up as being the
real man of the draft. He'll run a club's offense solidly for
12+ years. Part of me was hoping the Bucks would end up 2nd in
the lottery and with Big Dog gone, draft Kidd.
By the way, I hope Robinson's rookie stats improve and I expect
they will. His first day in the NBA was also the day of his 1st
game. I expect his numbers will improve and his overall numbers
will be impacted by the early games because of missing all of
camp and preseason.
KJ verses Price. On injuries, I would take Price. I personally
would feel safer with a player that essentially lost an entire
year with a real bad injury (supposing it heals) than with one
who seems to get nickel and dimed each and every year. Bad
argument you pose Mike (imho)!!
I haven't seen enough of either of them, but my guess is that Price
will give a more consistent performance. I've seen flashes of
brilliance from KJ and also days where its all bricks.
Finally, no one has mentioned defense. KJ is perhaps the quickest
PG alive (well, at least up there). My guess is that when defense
is incorporated into the mix of who is better, KJ is gonna benefit
from that.
On most important position. Man that's tough. It seems a champion
must have two or three really good players and depending on their
strengths, PG may or may not be the most important. Cases in point
are Golden State and the Celtics. Obviously, the PG is less
important when your forward can pass (Barry/Bird). Look at the
76'ers. They were loaded, but they needed that center (Malone).
I don't recall the Bullets having that great a PG, Elvin Hayes
put them over the top.
Its a tough argument that is unique to every team's chemistry. My
guess is that center/PG though are usually the most important.
Tony
|
| 10.2581 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Dec 16 1994 13:52 | 38 |
| Strickland is a head-case with a few entries on his police record. Not
exactly team leader material. Price and KJ are not problem children.
They're both BACs. Price even has a CCM album out.
> Jordan and Magic. For crying out loud, Magic scored 50+ points
> at center in the NBA finals his first year! And Jordan...well,
Like the best fish stories, this always gets better. He really only
scored 42, and did it against Caldwell Jones.
> Mike, I concur with you on Kidd. Being a Bucks fan, I of course
> hope the Big Dog is the man of the draft. But, Kidd is so
Big Dog's numbers are improving. He hit for 32 the other night.
> KJ verses Price. On injuries, I would take Price. I personally
> would feel safer with a player that essentially lost an entire
> year with a real bad injury (supposing it heals) than with one
> who seems to get nickel and dimed each and every year. Bad
> argument you pose Mike (imho)!!
Like any exotic high-performance model, Lamborghinis require regular
low maintenance. Now that the Suns doctors have a clue, he hasn't
pulled his hams in a few years now.
> Finally, no one has mentioned defense. KJ is perhaps the quickest
> PG alive (well, at least up there). My guess is that when defense
> is incorporated into the mix of who is better, KJ is gonna benefit
> from that.
Now you're preachin' to the choir! All the pro analysts in hoops media
say he's the 2nd best defender on the team behind Majerle and one of
the best defensive PG's in the league as well (not to mention the
explosive offensive game). During the '93 Finals, he was the only one
quick enough on the floor to at least slow Jordan somewhat (notice I
didn't say he stopped him - only Joe Dumars did that).
Mike
|
| 10.2582 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Fri Dec 16 1994 13:59 | 8 |
| | exactly team leader material. Price and KJ are not problem children.
| They're both BACs. Price even has a CCM album out.
Oh, are these mutually exclusive? I guess I didn't realize
that. Hmm, let me get this straight, all Christians are
good, all _____ are bad. What goes in the blank, Mike?
=Bob=
|
| 10.2583 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Dec 16 1994 14:09 | 3 |
| Bob, don't let your personal agenda misinterpret and twist what I
wrote. The point is that Strickland has had several problems with the
law and has been bounced from 3 teams. The other 2 haven't.
|
| 10.2584 | Repeat after me "My name is Mike, and I was w-w-w-wrong" | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Fri Dec 16 1994 14:26 | 11 |
| Whose personal agenda are we talking about here? I question your
leap of logic in equating an athlete NOT being a head case, to
being a BAC. It is a predudicial statement, which infers that if,
for instance, Rod Strickland was a BAC, he wouldn't be a head case.
Perhaps if Strickland hadn't grown up in a single-parent, impovershed
home he wouldn't be a head case. Or perhaps if the education system
at the University that he chose had abondoned him, KJ or Price either
of them would have grown disenchanted, and made some bad life decisions.
(Not that there is any excuse for those sorts of actions.)
=Bob=
|
| 10.2585 | best slur? | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Fri Dec 16 1994 14:34 | 8 |
| I'm coming into this a little late, having missed Tuesday, Wednesday and
Thursday. Extracting the notes really doesn't give the full flavor of
this debate ;-).
I do like the parts about rearraning the statistics and the BAC/CCM slur
was pretty nice, too.
TTom
|
| 10.2586 | and Paul Hill is a head case too | FRETZ::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Dec 16 1994 15:22 | 15 |
| >Whose personal agenda are we talking about here? I question your
yours.
>leap of logic in equating an athlete NOT being a head case, to
>being a BAC. It is a predudicial statement, which infers that if,
>for instance, Rod Strickland was a BAC, he wouldn't be a head case.
Then you took it the wrong way. Read things for what they are instead
of using them for your personal soapbox.
Strickland went to DePaul, isn't that a religious school? Swaggart and
Baker are headcases too. That make you feel better now?
Mike
|
| 10.2587 | not good vs bad, but who you know! | CSC32::R_ABBOTT | | Fri Dec 16 1994 16:24 | 7 |
| Mike,
Don't take it personally. Some people can't help but think that
God is Santa Claus and is looking down to see who is naughty or nice.
Your NOTES personal says it all!
rick
|
| 10.2588 | 'nuff said on my part... | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Hakuna Matata - means no worries... | Fri Dec 16 1994 16:42 | 20 |
| | Don't take it personally. Some people can't help but think that
| God is Santa Claus and is looking down to see who is naughty or nice.
| Your NOTES personal says it all!
WOW, and I thought MikeH was making a leap of logic!
My point has nothing to do with God, Santa Claus, heaven, or druidism.
My point is that there is not necessarily inherant goodness associated
with people of any particular beleifs. I have no problem with people
beleiving that there is, just don't foister that logic on me. I let
most of these references pass, but I occasionally point them out.
I haven't any agenda. I do have a strong conviction that I will defend
my right to religious freedom, and that I will not be subject to the
perceived superiority of any particular beliefs.
In keeping with ::SPROTS, feel free to take one last shot at me, but I'm
dropping the subject.
=Bob=
|
| 10.2589 | you don't look Druish | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Fri Dec 16 1994 16:52 | 11 |
| Dint Frank Zappa sing a song about some of this:
I want a dirty little Druish princess
la la la
With a garlic aroma that would level Tacoma
I want a nasty little Druish princess
la la la
With titanic <titles> and sand blasted zits
TTom
|
| 10.2590 | Then again there's the maypole dance | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come Monday... | Fri Dec 16 1994 18:39 | 8 |
| Sherlock Holmes once disguised himself as a bookseller and ran into
Watson who recounted the four books being carried of which one was
"Tree Worship"
The others were ???? on birds, A latin poetry book (Catallus) and ?
So if Sherlock didn't think it was so bad that's good enough for me.
|
| 10.2591 | | CAMONE::WAY | I'll miss you, Rak, my friend | Fri Dec 16 1994 18:41 | 2 |
| I've got the complete Sherlock on CD-ROM. I'll try and look it up this
weekend....
|
| 10.2592 | Not a Brett fan (Jeremy not Ken) btw | AKOCOA::BREEN | Come Monday... | Fri Dec 16 1994 20:02 | 3 |
| Try the "Empty House" from the Return of Sherlock Holmes. That the one
where Sebastian Moran (Col(ex)) sits across the street with an air
rifle aimed at a plaster of Holmes.
|
| 10.2600 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | I JUST LOVE THOSE STEELERS! | Tue Dec 20 1994 15:01 | 2 |
| 10.2601 | But too late, cat out of bag now on Rauf | AKOCOA::BREEN | It was in the bleak December | Tue Dec 20 1994 19:58 | 14 |
| Well I saw the best basketball player, talent-wise, in awhile in that
Denver game in one Abdul Rauf. As Jimmy Jackson I noticed his
quickness and shooting ability and I saw it in spades last night. I
read comments here about Pack and I saw his excellent performance in
the playoffs but Rauf is an immense talent.
If Dan Issel doesn;'t want to go with this guy then I herby authorize
M.L. to offer him any player off the roster (other than Montross)
and of course pushing Radja out front inconspicuously.
I like Wesley quite a bit and with the crowd Rauf would bring perhaps a
straight up for Dee. But perhaps Denver really would take Radja for
Rauf and the salaries match.
up.
|
| 10.2602 | exit | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Tue Dec 20 1994 20:26 | 12 |
| Yep, Rauf might just be the best shooter in the NBA. When he gets hot,
he's sizzles. But one problem he has is his size and slight build.
When the playoffs arrived last year, play was a lot more physical and
Rauf really got roughed up. That's a big reason why PackMan played a lot
better than Rauf in the playoffs. Also, Rauf really isn't the best
defensive player.
Dan Issel has a tough problem here because Rauf and Pack and #1 pick,
Jalen Rose are all competing for point guard play. It's hard to keep
everybody happy especially Rauf.
Keith
|
| 10.2603 | I missed even more than TTom | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Fri Dec 23 1994 17:17 | 12 |
| I haven't been in this topic since a week ago Monday (I think it was), and
am really sorry to have missed last week's fireworks. I probably wouldn't
have been able to resist pointing out that Darryl Strawberry is a BAC.
And 'Saw has the complete Sherlock Holmes (i.e., the canon) on CD-ROM.
God, I *am* a dinosaur. I've only got the book.
Meanwhile, where've you all been this week?
Right, in the NFL topic.
Steve
|
| 10.2604 | Eastern All Star Voting, so far | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Jan 05 1995 15:58 | 19 |
| Updates on fan voting for all-stars.
Here's the Eastern votes, listed for everyone over 200K:
Forwards
1. Grant Hill 488K
2. Scottie Pippen 320K
3. LJ 258K
Guards
1. Anfernee Hardaway 284K
2. Joe Dumars 262K
3. Reggie Miller 244K
4. Muggsy Bogues 206K
5. John Starsk 202K
Centers
1. Shaq 404K
2. Zo 210K
|
| 10.2605 | Hint - not all five are currently active | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Fri Jan 13 1995 13:05 | 4 |
| NBA question of the day: name the five highest paid players in the NBA
THIS YEAR, not over the length of their contact.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2606 | so I heard | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Fri Jan 13 1995 13:14 | 4 |
| Pretty sure Magic Johnson leads the parade at some double digit millions.
Probably David Robinson is up there, too.
TTom
|
| 10.2607 | | CNTROL::KING | | Fri Jan 13 1995 13:17 | 8 |
| Nazz, I will take a run at this...
Magic Johnson - $12-$15M range
James Worthy - $8m range
David Robinson - $7-8M range
AC Green - $6-7M range
Penny Hardaway - $4-5M range
Detlef Shrempf - $4-5M range
|
| 10.2608 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Jan 13 1995 14:34 | 1 |
| 10.2609 | Ever wonder why he quit? | AKOCOA::BREEN | It's all in the outcome | Fri Jan 13 1995 16:13 | 1 |
| I don't think Michael Jordan was ever in the top payroll earners.
|
| 10.2610 | FT data | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Wed Jan 18 1995 15:59 | 19 |
| The USA Today has a_article on free throws, who's making 'em and who's
not.
David Robinson leads the league in FT attempts followed by Shaq both at
11+. Nobody else shoots 10 a game. Other notables include Hakeem at 6 and
the Mailman at 7. Zo is 11th.
Robinson also leads in FT made at 8.5. Derrick Colemand is second. Zo is
9th.
Point guards are the bestest FT shooters. Spud Webb leads the league at
95%. Charlotte is the onliest team with 2 players shooting 90%+, with
Muggsy at 92.9 and Dell Curry at 92.8.
San Antonio leads the league as a team shooting over 32 FTs per game.
Seattle and Orlando follow. Detroit shoots the least followed by
Washingon. Charlotte, Houston and the Clippers are third worsted.
TTom
|
| 10.2611 | Charlotte No. 1 in $s | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Jan 19 1995 14:46 | 14 |
| Charlotte has passed da Bulls in paraphenalia/merchandising sales.
Here's how it looks from the top:
1. Charlotte (2, lasted year)
2. Chicago (1)
3. Orlando (3)
4. Phoenix (4)
5. Seattle (15)
This is the firsted year since 89 that the Bulls weren't the sales
leader. FWIW, the champion Houston Rockets are mired down at 11.
TTom
|
| 10.2612 | no accounting for taste | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Jan 19 1995 15:24 | 1 |
| 10.2613 | | METSNY::francus | There is no joy in Mudville | Thu Jan 19 1995 16:40 | 5 |
| re: .2612
I assume you are commenting on the Suns being ranked so high.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2614 | never assume | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Jan 19 1995 17:33 | 1 |
| 10.2615 | Danny Ferry making more than Michael is obscene! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Thu Jan 19 1995 17:33 | 17 |
| Dang! I hate being outta ::SPROTS fer so long that I fergit answers to
questions that I axed!!!
Anyway, here's as best I can remember, the top five salaries in the NBA
this year:
1) Magic Johnson $14,660,000
2) David Robinson $7,300,000
3) James Worthy $7,250,000
4) A.C. Green (!!!) $6,472,600
5) Detlef Schrempf $5,000,000
Michael Jordan, at $3,850,000, was 15th. Check out who was 11th-14th:
11- Dale Davis; 12 - Danny Ferry; 13 - Charles Barkley; 14 - Clarence
Weatherspoon.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2616 | RIP Reggie | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Thu Jan 19 1995 17:33 | 3 |
| BTW, the highest salary on the Celtics was $3,300,000 for Reggie Lewis.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2617 | how does that work? | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Jan 19 1995 17:47 | 6 |
| Nazz,
When does this come 'off the books'? Do the Celtics ever get this slot
back?
TTom
|
| 10.2618 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jan 19 1995 18:14 | 5 |
| Where are the Nuggets in paraphenalia/merchandising sales ?
It would be interesting to see the whole list, at least the top-10.
Keith
|
| 10.2619 | | METSNY::francus | There is no joy in Mudville | Thu Jan 19 1995 18:34 | 5 |
| I think Celtics get the lost back for 1996-97.
At that point there may not be a salary cap so it won't matter.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2620 | don't know | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Jan 19 1995 18:37 | 11 |
| Keith,
I didn't see the whole list. Just a hunch, but I figger the Nuggets to be
fairly low on the totem pole.
Nothing against them but you would think that the Lakers, Knicks and
Celtics to be in or near the Top 10. The Denver market is not that big
and about the onliest blip on the national screen for Denver was lasted
year in the playoffs.
TTom
|
| 10.2621 | Some surprising names in the Top 25 salaries | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Thu Jan 19 1995 19:03 | 33 |
| The Celtics have to carry Reggie's salary for one more year. I really
unfair decision by the NBA brass in a brazen, yet successful attempt to
keep the Celtics down as much as possible.
Here are the top 25 NBA salaries being paid for this season:
1) Magic Johnson - LA Lakers $14,660,000
2) David Robinson - San Antonio $7,300,000
3) James Worthy - LA Lakers $7,250,000
4) A.C. Green - Phoenix $6,472,600
5) Detlef Schrempf - Seattle $5,000,000
6) Shaquille O'Neal - Orlando $4,800,000
7) Patrick Ewing - New York $4,486,700
8) Anfernee Hardaway - Orlando $4,305,000
9) Derrick Coleman - New Jersey $4,212,000
10) Sam Perkins - Seattle $4,126,000
11) Dale Davis - Indiana $4,050,000
12) Danny Ferry - Cleveland $4,042,000
13) Charles Barkley - Phoenix $4,030,000
14) Clarence Weatherspoon - Phila. $4,000,000
15) Michael Jordan - Chicago $3,850,000
16) Alonzo Mourning - Charlotte $3,840,000
17) Brad Daugherty - Cleveland $3,800,000
18) John Williams - Cleveland $3,786,000
19) Benoit Benjamin - New Jersey $3,774,000
20) Larry Johnson - Charlotte $3,710,000
21) Tim Hardaway - Golden State $3,703,000
22) Jerome Kersey - Portland $3,608,000
23) Shawn Bradley - Philadelphia $3,510,000
24) Chris Dudley - Portland $3,500,000
25) Stanley Roberts - LA Clippers $3,496,000
NAZZ
|
| 10.2622 | soon, LJ will lead the list | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Thu Jan 19 1995 19:12 | 13 |
| > -< Some surprising names in the Top 25 salaries >-
You said a mouthful there, partner.
Cleveland has to be way up there in payment for services not rendered.
Danny Ferry getting $4mil for anything is a joke. The 3.8mil to Daugherty
certainly aint getting any return.
Up there with the stupidest salaries are Benoit Benjamin and Stanley
Roberts.
TTom
|
| 10.2623 | curious about this | METSNY::francus | There is no joy in Mudville | Thu Jan 19 1995 19:18 | 7 |
|
Nazz,
Could the league have made any other decision on Lewis' salary?? What is
in the CBA??
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2624 | No other comparable case | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Fri Jan 20 1995 14:40 | 14 |
| The Celtics asked for a waiver regarding Lewis' salary slot, since he
obviously is no longer playing for the team. The league equated his
death to a "long-term injury" and refused to open the salary slot.
Paying the salary was never in question.
The only "long-term injury" that fell into a simialr category was what
happened to Steve Stipanovich several years ago, but he was in the last
year of his contract when his knee injuries forced him to retire. I
think he may still be getting paid on one of those ten year bonus
deals, but his regular salary had one year left to run, compared to
Regiie who the Celtics had to carry on the books and against a salary
cap slot for three years after his death.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2625 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Fri Jan 20 1995 14:47 | 1 |
| If only death were equatable with a long-term injury......
|
| 10.2626 | Hey 'Saw, we're talking the NBA here... | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Free Whitey Bulger! | Fri Jan 20 1995 14:53 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2627 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Fri Jan 20 1995 14:59 | 1 |
| No Bodies Allowed?
|
| 10.2628 | | GRANPA::DFAUST | Bad Things, man... | Fri Jan 20 1995 17:05 | 6 |
| The Sixers had a similar long term injury thing with Andrew Toney, who
should be familiar to the Celtics fans. I think they fimally got done
paying him two season ago (as the NBA salary cap saw it.)
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.2629 | Andrew Toney | STRATA::BARBIERI | God cares. | Fri Jan 20 1995 17:28 | 7 |
| I remember seeing Toney torch the Lakers for ~53 points on
national TV his rookie year. What a PHENOM!! And absolute
assassin. They said his first step would beat anyone playing
him tight on his outside shot, but of course if he was on...
kiss it goodbye.
I miss what might have been as far as he's concerned.
|
| 10.2630 | Let's see if C's decision holds for next case | AKOCOA::BREEN | It's all in the outcome | Fri Jan 20 1995 20:08 | 7 |
| So I assume that LA has Magic's 14.5 mil on their 'cap. Is that a
slot?
By blowing the Celtics off the NBA has certainly set a precedent. Now
what happens if a charter crashes or a car accident kills two players.
I'd say the team is stuck.
|
| 10.2631 | up to the contract | HBAHBA::HAAS | dingle lingo | Fri Jan 20 1995 20:13 | 20 |
| In order:
Magic's Salary Slot is significantly less than this. In fack, Magic had a
relatively minimal slot under the Cap. He was exactly what the Cap had in
mind. I big star that stays with his team, signs new contracts after the
old one expires, etc. He did restructure that, at that time, big contract
for 25 mil. The Lakers had to use his new base salary for the cap but
that was around 2 mil.
The NBA has established the principal that it matters not that you die,
it all up to the lasted contract. As I understand it, since Reggie was
under contract, then the Celtics have to keep his salary slot until the
end of the contract.
Using this "logic" then we would have to look at the contracts of the
unfortunate players killed in your scenario. The best case for the team
involved would be for the players to be in the lasted year of their
contract. Else they're stuck.
TTom
|
| 10.2632 | They better be stuck | AKOCOA::BREEN | It's all in the outcome | Fri Jan 20 1995 20:25 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2633 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | The Mekons ROOOOL | Mon Jan 23 1995 11:09 | 13 |
|
This year's oscar winners are, the envelope please??
Best actor: Charles Barkley
Best Supporting actor: Elliot Perry
rediculous calls at the end of the game but hey that's the NBA and why the
college game is so much better..........
mike
|
| 10.2634 | | METSNY::francus | There is no joy in Mudville | Mon Jan 23 1995 14:46 | 4 |
| Heck even Perry didn't think that it was a foul. He tripped over someones
legs all by himself.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2635 | Caught a nice nba game Friday night | AKOCOA::BREEN | It's all in the outcome | Mon Jan 23 1995 14:53 | 11 |
| I tuned in Friday night to catch my man Abdul-Rauf and Denver try to
stop Shag et amis. Rauf finally made his appearance when Denver was
about out of it in regulation but his two 3s tied it. Then he was gone
for ot until too late and he finally missed.
Pack or no Pack this guy would do 35+ minutes per night for me. What a
difference he could make with Celtics. What a waste of talent his
coming in for 15 minutes or so.
Great game with Shag's physical dominance of Mutombo the differ.
|
| 10.2636 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Mon Jan 23 1995 15:26 | 6 |
| Abdul-Rauf is one of those guys who, when he's hot, he's really hot.
When he's cold, he's cold. His defense is not that great. However,
he's one of the best I've ever seen at making the big shot when there's
only a few seconds left in the game.
Keith
|
| 10.2637 | | DELNI::FORGET | | Wed Jan 25 1995 18:18 | 9 |
|
In Last Night's Bulls/Spurs game. Scottie "Wild Man" Pippien
was at it again. He got a technical foul for screaming at the ref
about a 3 seconds call on Dennis Rodman. Then just lost it. He try to
charge the ref, that was 2 T's and out of the game he went. Then he
grabbed a chair and threw it on the court. Boy, that guy is a loose
cannon.
|
| 10.2638 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is FIVE!!! | Wed Jan 25 1995 18:19 | 4 |
| re: Pippen
Saw that. He really hurled that thang. Put BobKnight
to shame.
|
| 10.2639 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Wed Jan 25 1995 18:45 | 4 |
| 10.2640 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Thu Jan 26 1995 17:22 | 3 |
| Heard on WFAN a bit ago that Pippen got a one game suspension. They
were unclear about the fine (the phone connection to Ed Minko wasn't great)
but I thought it was $50,000.
|
| 10.2641 | Chump change - NOT | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Thu Jan 26 1995 17:35 | 10 |
| It was reported on the net that Pippen got a one game suspension
(tonight vs Orlando) and a $6,000 fine for his outburst.
Also reported (by a NY paper) that Clyde Drexler will be traded
from Portland to Seattle for Kendall Gill. Supposedly, the deal was
agreed upon last week but they need to work out the details
around Clyde's balloon payment for next season (in excess of $8
million).
Vinny
|
| 10.2642 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Thu Jan 26 1995 17:46 | 16 |
| > It was reported on the net that Pippen got a one game suspension
> (tonight vs Orlando) and a $6,000 fine for his outburst.
Thanks.
As I said, the connection was bad. I thought I heard 50, Chris Russo
thought it was 650(!), and Mike Francesa couldn't tell.
> Also reported (by a NY paper) that Clyde Drexler will be traded
> from Portland to Seattle for Kendall Gill. Supposedly, the deal was
> agreed upon last week but they need to work out the details
> around Clyde's balloon payment for next season (in excess of $8
> million).
So Clyde's gliding north, whilst Gill heads down the hill....
|
| 10.2643 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Thu Jan 26 1995 17:57 | 10 |
|
I just read on one of the WWW news services that Pippen's
find is $6,000. Don't forget that the one game suspension
means he loses 1 games pay, or 1/82 of his annual salary.
A much bigger sum than $6K!
JimH
|
| 10.2644 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Thu Jan 26 1995 18:07 | 18 |
|
I also just saw the NBA All-Star starters announced:
East West
F Grant Hill F Charles Barkley
F Scottie Pippen F Shawn Kemp
C Shaq C Hakeem Olajuwon
G Anfernee Hardaway G Dan Majerle
G Reggie Miller G Latrell Sprewell
Grant Hill became the first rookie to get the most votes
in All-Star balloting...
JimH
|
| 10.2645 | Terrible job by the voters | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Thu Jan 26 1995 18:28 | 5 |
| Unbelievable that Sprewell got voted in, with his attitude this season
and his lack of production. Clyde, Stockton, Hornacek, Jimmy Jackson,
even Spud Webb - all more deserving than Sprewell.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2646 | | METSNY::francus | There is no joy in Mudville | Thu Jan 26 1995 18:28 | 4 |
| East has mostly younger players starting the All-star game. West has more
established veterans.
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2647 | Bob Ryan or Jackie MacMullen called this one last year | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Thu Jan 26 1995 18:52 | 11 |
| Watch for Shaq to put up big numbers in the All-Star game this
year ...
Last year (or the year before) he was supposedly "shut out" by the
other All-Stars (they appeared to make a concerted effort to stop
him) .. with Brian Hill (Orlando Magic coach) coaching the East team
and Penny Hardaway the starting point guard for the East .. Shaq will
gets lots of support from the East squad this year .. not to mention
the revenge factor ..
Vinny
|
| 10.2648 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jan 26 1995 19:07 | 5 |
| What's Thunder Dan doing on the team? He never shows me anything. Or
has he turned it around a little this year?
Hill is a reach but if the public genuinely wants to see him, be my
guest.
|
| 10.2649 | huh?? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Thu Jan 26 1995 19:53 | 1 |
| How long has Hill been injured?
|
| 10.2650 | fact | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Jan 27 1995 04:40 | 2 |
| 10.2651 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Fri Jan 27 1995 12:10 | 9 |
|
considering the Ballot stuffing by the Phoneix crowd that was reported in
here a few weeks ago this comes as no surprise to me.
in all-around ability Grant Hill is Michael Jordan without the flash. He
belongs on the team. Coach K, Lattner Hurley and the rest of the gang would
be ringless without him.......
mike
|
| 10.2652 | Surprising | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Fri Jan 27 1995 13:55 | 10 |
| .2650:
> Thunder is the first sub in NBA history to be voted into the starting
> lineup.
I'll take your word for it, Mike, but it surprises me. So John Havlicek
was never voted to start an All-Star Game in the days he was coming off
the Boston bench?
Steve
|
| 10.2653 | | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Jan 27 1995 14:07 | 4 |
| Grant Hill may deserve to be on the team at some time. What has he
done this year to warrant a starting position and the leading vote
getter in the east???
|
| 10.2654 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Fri Jan 27 1995 14:09 | 7 |
|
Well I haven't been following as closely as some but I thought he was
averaging around 20 with 1/2 dozen boards and assists per game earlier
this year besides probably playing defense like a first team defensive
player.....
mike
|
| 10.2655 | I guess I'd have to look it up | AKOCOA::BREEN | The Captains and Majors and Light Colonels too | Fri Jan 27 1995 15:01 | 6 |
| I do seem to recall Havlicek making the all-star team pre 1967
(Heinsohn and Sanders started, then Bailey Howell for Heinsohn; Hondo
started around '68 or so I thought - He made the league regular season
all star team one of two years).
|
| 10.2656 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Fri Jan 27 1995 15:29 | 6 |
|
I don't think Hondo was a starter though, and they certainly didn't
have fan balloting. Regardless, the ballot stuffing done here is/was
shameful.
brews
|
| 10.2657 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Fri Jan 27 1995 15:50 | 13 |
|
Yes, being voted as a starter I think is the difference.
Hondo and McHale (84 All Star & NBA 6th Player Award) both
were named to the all-star team as non starters. I'm sure there
are other examples.
IMHO, these cases are far more impressive than Majerle being
voted onto the team via home-town stuffing. This is about as shameful
as the year A.C. Green was voted a starter a head of Karl Malone
JimH
|
| 10.2658 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | NoMoreHerosAnymore | Fri Jan 27 1995 16:06 | 6 |
| All you need to know about the NBA is that Grant Hill is the
leading vote getter in the Some Star Game. He's what the future
of the NBA is all about, the pre-packaged SuperStar whether the
statistics and facts bear that out or not.
/Don
|
| 10.2659 | Fans are FANatical | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Jan 27 1995 16:11 | 6 |
| I guess that no other city other than Phoenix stuffs the ballot box.
In a different sport...The Colorado Rockies fans were stuffing the
box for all of their players. That is how at one point in AllStar
tabulation that Roberto Mejia was leading vote getter for 2nd base.
Problem was that Roberto was playing MINOR LEAGUE baseball at the time.
|
| 10.2660 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Fri Jan 27 1995 16:31 | 9 |
|
Yabbut, Frank, they had radio "personalities" (the quotes are there
'cause some of these guys don't really have a personality) yelling at
listeners because not enough of them were coming down to stuff the
ballot. The sports guy on the Suns station was talking about how bad
the Suns fans were because slumber dan wasn't getting enough votes, and
that the fans needed to support him. It was pitiful.
brews
|
| 10.2661 | when? | MKOTS3::SMILLER | | Mon Jan 30 1995 12:56 | 1 |
| When is the NBA All-Star game?
|
| 10.2662 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jan 30 1995 13:14 | 3 |
| > When is the NBA All-Star game?
Feb 12
|
| 10.2663 | You got to be kiddin.... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:19 | 5 |
| I just looked at the "NBA Leaders" stat. I do not see Grant Hill in
any of the leaders categories. Is he hurt or what? How in the h*ll
did he get elected as a starter for the NBA some star game?
|
| 10.2664 | it's *EVERYWHERE* | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:23 | 1 |
| 10.2665 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is FIVE!!! | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:28 | 3 |
| | Ballot stuffing.
Who else got elected as a result of ballot stuffing?
|
| 10.2666 | Jimmy Jackson??? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:45 | 3 |
| What about Jimmy Jackson? I see he did not EVEN make the reserve team.
I thought this was a showcase of the best the NBA has to offer?
|
| 10.2667 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:51 | 4 |
| Dikembe Mutumbo leads the league in blocked shots and in rebounding
but he isn't on the 1st string or 2nd string or reserve string.
Keith
|
| 10.2668 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Lindsey is FIVE!!! | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:56 | 4 |
| | Dikembe Mutumbo leads the league in blocked shots and in rebounding
| but he isn't on the 1st string or 2nd string or reserve string.
Yabut that's a tough position, and Dike doesn't score...
|
| 10.2669 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 01 1995 20:11 | 1 |
| 10.2670 | But you got T'under instead, choke | AKOCOA::BREEN | That is enough for me and for thee | Wed Feb 01 1995 20:25 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2671 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Wed Feb 01 1995 20:31 | 7 |
| 10.2672 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 02 1995 12:57 | 6 |
| Manning doesn't belong on the All-Star team.
With ALL of the selfish, spoiled players today, maybe Grant Hill's
election is a statement from the fans that they LIKE this kind of
player ! Maybe he's all we have as a possible successor to Magic,
Bird and Jordan.
|
| 10.2673 | Mutombo most definitely | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Feb 02 1995 13:43 | 2 |
| 10.2674 | then.... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 02 1995 13:49 | 3 |
| > Manning had better all-around #'s in less minutes than Ceballos
Ceballos doesn't belong either.
|
| 10.2675 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Thu Feb 02 1995 14:01 | 28 |
| > Manning had better all-around #'s in less minutes than Ceballos with
> more minutes. Jackson probably did too.
Hmmm...
Ceballos plays 4 minutes more per game.
They both shoot well; Manning does shoot better (55% - 52%).
Ceballos is superior at both 3-pt FG and FT (38% - 26% & 72% - 66%).
Ceballs scores over 5 pts/game more (22.6 - 17.3)
Manning does have more assists (3.4/gm - 1.9/gm)
Ceballos steals the ball more, and turns it over less (1.3 - 0.9 & 2.4
- 2.6)
Manning gets more blocks (1.2 - 0.4).
Ceballos gets more rebounds, particularly offensive rebounds
(8.8 - 5.7 & 3.3 - 1.9).
I don't see any way that you can say Manning's been better than
Ceballos - his advantages (FG%, assists, and blocks) don't outweigh
Ceballos'
Joe
|
| 10.2676 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Thu Feb 02 1995 14:14 | 5 |
|
sure looks like the Suns goofed in letting Cebellos get away. They should
have kept him and traded SlumberDan away.........
mike
|
| 10.2677 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Mike Lupica - Literary Giant! | Thu Feb 02 1995 14:21 | 7 |
|
>> sure looks like the Suns goofed in letting Cebellos get away. They should
>> have kept him and traded SlumberDan away.........
They obviously kept Disappearin' Dan to appease all of those folks
who voted him inot the all-star game. Call it the "Gerry Cooney
Effect".
|
| 10.2678 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Thu Feb 02 1995 15:20 | 3 |
| > Call it the "Gerry Cooney Effect".
It's more like the horny women/cute guy effect.
|
| 10.2679 | Cousy > Stockton | AKOCOA::BREEN | That is enough for me and for thee | Thu Feb 02 1995 15:29 | 11 |
| I watched the ESPN highlights of Stockton's achieving the all time
assist record and had one problem. A lot of these "assists" were never
assists in the old nba. For Cousy to get one he had to actually "feed"
the scorer - Stockton gets one the same way they award the assist in
the NHL, for being the one to touch the ball prior to it going in.
I'm surprised the nba doesn't award two assists like hockey.
But I do like Stockton and although the actual number vs say Cousy's
number is not comparable, his ranking first vs his peers year in year
out is worthy.
|
| 10.2680 | ... and dem da facks! | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 12:25 | 3 |
| 10.2681 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Fri Feb 03 1995 12:45 | 10 |
| <<< Note 10.2680 by ROCK::GRONOWSKI "The dream is always the same..." >>>
^^^^^
-< ... and dem da facks! >-
Stockton >> Cousy
Well atleast the p-name is correct..........
;^)
|
| 10.2682 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 13:08 | 15 |
| 10.2683 | | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Fri Feb 03 1995 13:25 | 13 |
| <<< Note 10.2682 by ROCK::GRONOWSKI "The dream is always the same..." >>>
> Athletes are SIGNIFICANTLY better now than they were 40 years ago.
> If you don't believe me, go check the olympic record books.
How can checking the olympic record books prove athletes are
SIGNIFICANTLY better now than they were 40 years ago as regards
to basketball? I think that athletes are better today than they were
40 years, but I don't base my decision on the olympic record books
(when talking about basketball).
Kevin
|
| 10.2684 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Fri Feb 03 1995 13:34 | 48 |
|
>I watched the ESPN highlights of Stockton's achieving the all time
>assist record and had one problem. A lot of these "assists" were never
>assists in the old nba. For Cousy to get one he had to actually "feed"
>the scorer - Stockton gets one the same way they award the assist in
>the NHL, for being the one to touch the ball prior to it going in.
I wasn't aware that the NBA's definition of an assist had changed
over the years. Its not just a matter of being the last person to pass
to a player who makes a field goal, ala the NHL. After the pass, the
shooter must make an immediate move towards the basket & a field goal
attempt.
Hey NAZZ: Do you score assists any differently today, then you did
back in Cousey's day??? :-) :-)
If the NBA had changed the definition of an assist, the all-time
Assist Leader list would be dominated by 1980's palyers Instead we
have:
Stockton
Magic
The Big O
Isiah Thomas
============ A big gap in total assists
Mo Cheeks
Lenny Wilkins
Cousey
Guy Rogers
Tiny Achibald
John Lucas
All-in-all a pretty good distribution of players from
the 60's through to today. There is a huge gap between the top
for and the rest of the list. I would attribute that more to
Magic, Stockton and Thomas being great players who benefited
from playing in a era with much higher FG percentages. I was looking
through the NBA Register yesterday, and average FG% league wide, were
much lower in the 50's & 60's than they are today. So the best passers
are naturally going to get more assists today (see Stopckton & Karl
Malone.)
It also make The Big O's numbers just that much more impressive.
JimH
|
| 10.2685 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Fri Feb 03 1995 13:44 | 25 |
| |> Athletes are SIGNIFICANTLY better now than they were 40 years ago.
|> If you don't believe me, go check the olympic record books.
|
|
| How can checking the olympic record books prove athletes are
| SIGNIFICANTLY better now than they were 40 years ago as regards
| to basketball? I think that athletes are better today than they were
| 40 years, but I don't base my decision on the olympic record books
| (when talking about basketball).
|
| Kevin
It's rare that I find myself agreeing with Paul [8^)], but I do know
what he's talking about.
Olympic records provide a yardstick of sorts that chronicles the improvements
of athletes over time.
Better nutrition, computerized analysis, and better equipment have all
contributed to the growth and improvement. Plus, we're also growing them
better down on the farm.....
'Saw
|
| 10.2686 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Fri Feb 03 1995 13:47 | 18 |
|
ah Paul that's cuz Cousy and the guys didn't have Nike Air Pumps back then.
Seriously though there is no way that you can make me believe that guys
like Cousy, Russell and other top notch players of years gone past couldn't
compete today. The court is still 94 feet and the basket hangs at 10. Yes
alot of the marginal players of times gone by would be out in the cold but
not the stars.
Cousy and Red revolutioned Basketball with the Fast Break, Cousy saw and
fed everybody not just Malone. Yeah I know Stockton has fed others as well
but I don't believe that he had the court vision that Cousy had. The only
one who did was Magic who had a nice height advantage.
in the final analysis yes Cousy >> Stockton.........
mike
|
| 10.2687 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Mike Lupica - Literary Giant! | Fri Feb 03 1995 13:57 | 12 |
|
If you had a time machine and transported the vintage
Bob Cousy to today, he couldn't play division 1 college
ball. Most power forwards today are quicker than he was.
His ballhandling skills would be considered so crude as
to be laughable. Every team he faced would clear out so
that their PG could take him one-on-one and he'd have his
shot swatted into his face so much that he'd have "Spaulding"
imprinted on his forehead. Cousy play today? Ha! He couldn't
be twelfth man on the Clippers.
|
| 10.2688 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Fri Feb 03 1995 14:13 | 6 |
|
geez Tommy then how in the world do guys like Stockton and Price play
today? It seems to me they get by on brains more than athletic ability.
Same way Cousy would survive.........
mike
|
| 10.2689 | Who knows? It's possible... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 03 1995 14:28 | 16 |
|
> geez Tommy then how in the world do guys like Stockton and Price play
> today?
Bingo. Point guard is the one position where the little man, even the
little man without great speed or any other measurable physical
quality, can still make it. The proof is present in the NBA today.
Still, I don't see any point in trying to compare Cousy's _records_
straight-up with Stockton's or anyone else's. That's pointless,
because pre-1960 Cousy was playing in the equivalent of the CBA or
worse. You'd just have to go on actual observation and more than a
little guesswork.
glenn
|
| 10.2690 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Mike Lupica - Literary Giant! | Fri Feb 03 1995 15:11 | 24 |
|
>> Bingo. Point guard is the one position where the little man, even the
>> little man without great speed or any other measurable physical
>> quality, can still make it. The proof is present in the NBA today.
If that were entirely correct, Mike Childs would be starting PG for
the 'Tics. Stockton and Price both have distinct measurable physical
qualities. Stockton is plenty quick enough. Not KJ quick but quick.
He and Price both have an excellent touch on the ball. Price's touch
is evident in his shooting, Stockton's in his passing. If Stockton and
Price really were the steroetypical slow white, slow but cerebral players
that they're being made out to be, they'd be playing in Europe now.
There are no truly slow or unathletic PGs in the NBA.
>> Still, I don't see any point in trying to compare Cousy's _records_
>> straight-up with Stockton's or anyone else's. That's pointless,
>> because pre-1960 Cousy was playing in the equivalent of the CBA or
>> worse. You'd just have to go on actual observation and more than a
>> little guesswork.
I could care less about the records. I'm just flat out saying that
Cousy could not play in the NBA today any more than Art Donovan could
play in the NFL.
|
| 10.2691 | Are you sufficiently insulted MikeC? ;-) | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 03 1995 15:44 | 24 |
|
> If that were entirely correct, Mike Childs would be starting PG for
> the 'Tics. Stockton and Price both have distinct measurable physical
> qualities. Stockton is plenty quick enough. Not KJ quick but quick.
We're not talking about Mike Childs; we're talking about Bob Cousy.
By any account I've ever seen (as well as film) Cousy was very quick.
As opposed to a George Mikan or someone like that I think Cousy meets
that mandatory minimum standard for a current NBA point guard, and
the rest is supposition on either side.
> I could care less about the records. I'm just flat out saying that
> Cousy could not play in the NBA today any more than Art Donovan could
> play in the NFL.
Art Donovan played well into the 1960s and made the Pro Football Hall
of Fame. He's in the upper echelon of those defenders that Jim Brown
made his career against. He was a big man and if necessary I'm sure he
could have put on the required additional 50 pounds of fat to get to
the 350 lb, 6.5 40-yard, now required to play backup nose guard for
some expansion team... ;-)
glenn
|
| 10.2692 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Fri Feb 03 1995 15:48 | 27 |
| |> Cousy could not play in the NBA today any more than Art Donovan could
|> play in the NFL.
|
| Art Donovan played well into the 1960s and made the Pro Football Hall
| of Fame. He's in the upper echelon of those defenders that Jim Brown
| made his career against. He was a big man and if necessary I'm sure he
| could have put on the required additional 50 pounds of fat to get to
| the 350 lb, 6.5 40-yard, now required to play backup nose guard for
| some expansion team... ;-)
Football is the extreme of futility of trying to compare eras.
Donovan would be the first to tell you that back then eating right was
lots and lots of steak, and potatoes. Weight training was non-existent.
I have heard him say as much in interviews.
Cousy played a different style of hoops. But Glenn is right about his
quickness. And quickness perhaps is the one constant between eras.
Speed gets speedier, and strength increases, but you can't teach quickness
and it is still an asset.
'Saw
|
| 10.2693 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 15:51 | 5 |
| 10.2694 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | TheHowardSternMemorialRestStop | Fri Feb 03 1995 15:57 | 18 |
| Using Paul's analogy then...
Any 80's/90's playoff team > Any 50's Cleveland championship team
You can't compare eras. You can however compare how an athlete of
one era dominated his peers, which Cousy did. Heck Oscar Robertson would
probably be too slow to compete in today's NBA, but would you say the guy's
a stiff because of it? Stockton is one of the best, if not the best pure
point guard, but back in Cousy's time a guard wasn't slotted into a number,
he had to do everything a guard is supposed to do. Hey Sharman had to
dribble the ball just like Cousy did, he couldn't beg off those duties
because he was a "2" guard. I would say that pre-80's basketball players
had better all around skills than today's players, but today's players are
definitely better athletes.
/Don
P.S. And BILL RUSSELL was still the GREATEST winner of all time!
|
| 10.2695 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Mike Lupica - Literary Giant! | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:00 | 35 |
|
>> We're not talking about Mike Childs; we're talking about Bob Cousy.
No, we're talking about your statement that " Point guard is the one
position where the little man, even the little man without great speed
or any other measurable physical quality, can still make it." Basketball
isn't like baseball where you can have one or two skills and get by quite
nicely. There are no small, slow basketball players much less small, slow
basketball players with out any other measurable physical qualities. It
just don't happen or as I said MikeC could play in the NBA.
>> By any account I've ever seen (as well as film) Cousy was very quick.
>> As opposed to a George Mikan or someone like that I think Cousy meets
>> that mandatory minimum standard for a current NBA point guard, and
>> the rest is supposition on either side.
Quick relative to the other players around him which by today's standard
isn't very quick at all. There were no Alonzo Mouring or David Robinson-
type players when Cousy played. Players 6'9" or greater who could run
like deer. Compared even to the guys like Dan Majerle, Cousy is down-
right snail-like.
>> Art Donovan played well into the 1960s and made the Pro Football Hall
>> of Fame. He's in the upper echelon of those defenders that Jim Brown
>> made his career against. He was a big man and if necessary I'm sure he
>> could have put on the required additional 50 pounds of fat to get to
>> the 350 lb, 6.5 40-yard, now required to play backup nose guard for
>> some expansion team... ;-)
As Saw said and from Donovan's own testimony given on numerous Letterman
appearances, his idea of weight training was carrying the case of beer up
to the hotel room and his idea of running was chasing skirts. Donovan
is the type of player that Big Tuna would have riding the exercise bike
because he would be endangering himself if he practiced.
|
| 10.2696 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:09 | 40 |
|
Comparing athletes from different eras is one of the most futile
excercises I've ever seen. And it keeps coming up, over and over.
So much changes over the course of 30 years, that it makes
comparisons virtually meaningless. As 'Saw notes, just in the area
of sports nutrition there have been so many changes, that today's
athletes have tremendous advantages. The science of Excercise Physiology
has provided tremendous insight into how the human body works, and as
a result training programs for athletes have been greatly improved
in general, and optimized for particular sports.
Most of today's athletes treat their profession as a 12 month
occupation. The training programs never stop, they'll have some
low-intensity recovery periods post season. But they tend to stay in
shape year round. (I've read the Patriots resume team weight lifting
workouts in March at Foxboro. Plays not in the area are expected to
follow the program.) While athletes in previous eras showed up to
training camp overweight and out-of-shape. The exhibition seasons
were used to "play themselves into shape". Try that today, and you're
in trouble (for the most part, especially in the NFL)
IMHO, transport Bob Cousey so that he was born in 1970, and
he was developed in the same environment as today's players. There
is not doubt in my mind that he would be a starting point guard
in the NBA. The talents he possessed (ball-handling, passing,
leadership) in combination with the envioronmental changes of the
last 20 years, would make him better than most of the stiffs
occupying NBA rosters today. We need look no further than
Sherman Douglas and David Wesley, although there are plenty other good
examples
Saying he wouldn't make 12th man on the Clippers, is about
as ridiculous statement I've ever read in this forum....
JimH
|
| 10.2697 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Time for Vacation... | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:24 | 12 |
|
Not, that Stockton wouldn't have broke the record anyways. The
record breaking assist, WAS NOT an assist in my book. Stockton passes
to Malone, who drops the pass and has to regain the ball. Then he
goes ahead and takes the shot. The argument being is that if the pass
was perfect Malone wouldn't have dropped it. Also Malone had to do
something after the pass to score (regain the ball).
Nazz, what is your interpetation of the record breaking pass? If
the player drops the pass/loses the ball. Then regains it and makes
the basket, is it still an assist?
Ron
|
| 10.2698 | | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:27 | 33 |
|
> There are no small, slow basketball players much less small, slow
> basketball players with out any other measurable physical qualities.
Sure there are. John Bagley was playing starting point just a couple
of years ago. Not very well, but he was playing. Line Bagley up in a
straight footrace against most forwards and he gets smoked. You've got
the skills, and some quickness (not to be confused with speed), and you
can play.
> Compared even to the guys like Dan Majerle, Cousy is down-right snail-like.
I don't agree. I don't know where this idea that Cousy _has_ to be a
snail (quickness-wise) compared to _everybody_ today just because he
played in the 1950-60s comes from. He might be on the low end instead
of the high end, but say that he couldn't even play Division I ball
suggests some kind of physical evolution beyond what has occurred.
From the best point guard to somewhere outside the top 300.
> As Saw said and from Donovan's own testimony given on numerous Letterman
> appearances, his idea of weight training was carrying the case of beer up
> to the hotel room and his idea of running was chasing skirts. Donovan
> is the type of player that Big Tuna would have riding the exercise bike
> because he would be endangering himself if he practiced.
He could still play. I thought I'd seen it all with William
Perry but then I see a guy playing on the Cowboys' O-line (not Nate
Newton, the other guy) who is visibly obvious at closer to 400 pounds
than 350 and could spot Perry 50 pounds in his eating prime. Somehow
they still let these guys play even in 1995...
glenn
|
| 10.2699 | | CSLALL::BRULE | Was there life before ESPN? | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:33 | 7 |
| If players from a few eras back played now they would have the benefit of
better training, better equipment and better diets then they did then.
If Cousy was playing now he would have better weight training and
fitness training that probably would make him quicker and stronger.
Also better coaching would help him with any weaknesses.
Mike
|
| 10.2700 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:41 | 6 |
| 10.2701 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | UMass > UConn | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:44 | 18 |
|
Heck I have a tough enough time being a point guard in the DEC league
let alone the NBA. One thing about the DEC league though is we're tougher
than NBA cause as the saying goes No Blood No Foul!!!!!!!
I never meant to imply that Stockton or Proce didn't have other skills
besides brain power, I guess I should have been clearer. I just think
that's their main asset and one that Cousy had also.
One thing that hasn't been brought up is heart. I think this goes along
way in determining who could play today. I think on a whole the players
of years gone by had more heart and that's why they would succeed.
Lets' look at Wilt and Bill. I think Bill would still excell at the
game because of his determination and win championships. Sure not as
many but a few. Wilted would be a 7'1" Nique'............
mike
|
| 10.2702 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:45 | 16 |
| 10.2703 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | TheHowardSternMemorialRestStop | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:47 | 3 |
| You're no fun anymore Groaner...
/Don
|
| 10.2704 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Mike Lupica - Literary Giant! | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:51 | 32 |
|
>> Comparing athletes from different eras is one of the most futile
>> excercises I've ever seen. And it keeps coming up, over and over.
Not like that scintillating "it is/isn't a sport" convo that
just grips the ::SPORTSnote community every time it resurfaces
(and it resurfaces far too often) with the help of two noters
who shall remain nameless.
>> IMHO, transport Bob Cousey so that he was born in 1970, and
>> he was developed in the same environment as today's players. There
>> is not doubt in my mind that he would be a starting point guard
>> in the NBA. The talents he possessed (ball-handling, passing,
>> leadership) in combination with the envioronmental changes of the
>> last 20 years, would make him better than most of the stiffs
>> occupying NBA rosters today. We need look no further than
>> Sherman Douglas and David Wesley, although there are plenty other good
>> examples
Transport Cousy so that he was born in 1970 and he'd still be too
slow to play in the NBA. Quickness and spped are a function of
genetics not training. If your point is that a player with
Cousy's innate abilities could thrive in the NBA, I'd agree
with you because they do but a player with Cousy's physical
limitations couldn't cut it. Can you say Chris Corciani?
>> Saying he wouldn't make 12th man on the Clippers, is about
>> as ridiculous statement I've ever read in this forum....
You say this everyday about something that you don't agree with.
|
| 10.2705 | go sharks | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:53 | 3 |
| 10.2706 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:54 | 23 |
| > than NBA cause as the saying goes No Blood No Foul!!!!!!!
Hootmon, laddie! If ye kenna bleed, yer no' playin a spooort!
It is utterly ridiculous to even try and compare teams/players from
different eras.
I mean, that's like saying that Einstein > Galileo. Let's face it, both
were geniuses, but both were products of their eras. Same thing with
sports.
A 90s championship > 50s championship team? Can't make that comparison.
That's like putting a race car from today into a race with a race car
from the 1950s. Things have changed so much.
'Saw
|
| 10.2707 | :-) | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | JAN,279,270,267,264.230 OR BUST | Fri Feb 03 1995 16:56 | 3 |
|
Ruth would own Clemens!!!
|
| 10.2708 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Mike Lupica - Literary Giant! | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:02 | 22 |
|
>> I don't agree. I don't know where this idea that Cousy _has_ to be a
>> snail (quickness-wise) compared to _everybody_ today just because he
>> played in the 1950-60s comes from.
You made that up yourself. I'm basing it on 30 years of having seen
Cousy on film. Maybe he was incredibly quick and it just doesn't trans-
late to celluloid in the way that those old films of Babe Ruth mincing
around the bases desn't inspire any awe whatsoever. The Cousy that I've
seen in those films just (to me) stresses how far the game and its
players have progressed. That Cousy and those moves would have 'em
rolling in the aisles these days.
>> He could still play. I thought I'd seen it all with William
>> Perry but then I see a guy playing on the Cowboys' O-line (not Nate
>> Newton, the other guy) who is visibly obvious at closer to 400 pounds
>> than 350 and could spot Perry 50 pounds in his eating prime. Somehow
>> they still let these guys play even in 1995...
That guy is also 6'7". I'd guess that Donovan could break 6'1" if he
were on tippy toes.
|
| 10.2709 | the last one should read politicians not politicals! | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:06 | 29 |
| 10.2710 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:08 | 5 |
| How does Bobby Hurley compare to Cousy ?
Would a '90s Cousy be unable to get an NBA job when Mark 'can barely move'
Jackson, Greg Anthony, Sherman Douglas, Scott Skiles, Tony Bennett and
Vinnie Del Negro can ?
|
| 10.2711 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:09 | 7 |
| 10.2712 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | JAN,279,270,267,264.230 OR BUST | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:12 | 8 |
|
It must be Friday in the Sprotsbar, we got Cousy vs the World, we
got Imus vs the World, we found out Cleveland is the Mecca of
Hockey......
Ya gotta love it.
|
| 10.2713 | just thought I'd slip this in before someone asks | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:16 | 11 |
| 10.2714 | | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 03 1995 17:26 | 32 |
|
> The Cousy that I've
> seen in those films just (to me) stresses how far the game and its
> players have progressed. That Cousy and those moves would have 'em
> rolling in the aisles these days.
I have to agree with you about the Harlem Globetrotter-style stuff.
The pure "highlight film" clips are indeed ridiculous, and that
wouldn't play today. You have to look beyond that to the normal
play of the game, in the unchanging fundamentals, where Cousy
excelled.
By the way, if this essential speed and quickness cannot be developed
and is purely genetic, then select players of 30 years ago _could_ play
with those of today under similar environmental conditions (within the
constraints of a much larger talent pool) because human genetics remain
almost entirely unchanged. I don't see why that doesn't apply to Cousy
(versus Stockton, versus John Bagley, etc.).
> That guy is also 6'7". I'd guess that Donovan could break 6'1" if he
> were on tippy toes.
Uh, no. The player I'm referring to Derek Kennard and like most OGs
(and DTs) he's a relatively normal 6'3" (why is it that these modern
athletes always grow to Bunyanesque proportions when their athleticism
is questioned?). But regardless of his height the Derek Kennard I saw
was carrying so such an incomprehensible amount of excess body fat that
all credulity is strained in any reference to him as "athletic". Art
Donovan is in better physical shape than that _today_.
glenn
|
| 10.2715 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Fri Feb 03 1995 18:44 | 32 |
|
>Transport Cousy so that he was born in 1970 and he'd still be too
>slow to play in the NBA.
I guess I want more 'evidence' that Cousy wouldn't
have enough 'speed & quickness' to compete in the NBA, other than your
recollections of old film. I don't buy it. How do you realistically
make that comparison? I've seen the same 'old films' that you have.
What I've seen is Cousy leading a fast break team that routinely
blew by the opposition.
>Quickness and spped are a function of genetics not training.
I agree it is mainly a matter of genetics, but not entirely.
Weight training can increase a athlete's speed, by training fast-twitch
muscle fibers. Why do the World Class sprinters spend so much time in
the weight room?
>If your point is that a player with
>Cousy's innate abilities could thrive in the NBA, I'd agree
>with you because they do but a player with Cousy's physical
>limitations couldn't cut it. Can you say Chris Corciani?
I'm not sure what you point is. But yes I was trying to say
that a player with Cousy's inate abilities could thrive in the NBA
today. You are not trying to imply that Chris Corchiani comes close
to matching Cousy's ball-handling and passing skills? Are you?
JimH
|
| 10.2716 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Fri Feb 03 1995 18:53 | 16 |
| > I agree it is mainly a matter of genetics, but not entirely.
> Weight training can increase a athlete's speed, by training fast-twitch
> muscle fibers. Why do the World Class sprinters spend so much time in
> the weight room?
I know that our rugby coaches always told us that lunges would help
our speed.
But then they'd usually tack on a line that went something like this:
"Except for you, FrankWay.... An ass full of hot buckshot
wouldn't help YOUR speed!"
8^)
|
| 10.2717 | can't beat what you can't catch | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Fri Feb 03 1995 18:56 | 5 |
| 10.2718 | Cousy was an outstanding player; assist clarification | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass - #1 again!!! | Fri Feb 03 1995 19:07 | 22 |
| As one who actually saw Cousy play in the latter stages of his career
(boy, am I old!), I can unequivocally say that he would be a star in
this era or any other era.
What Cousy did better than any other player (except for Magic) that
I've ever seen was see ALL the floor. He had great, great peripheral
vision, allowing him to pick up the trailer on the break and the guy
open on the wing. Cousy was a sensational dribbler, a very good FT
shooter, and seemed to play his best when it mattered most.
As for what is or isn't an assist, a pass must lead directly to a
basket to be considered an assist. If a guy drops a pass, but picks it
up right away and lays it in, an assist would be credited. Once the
continuity of the play is broken (fumbling the ball, moving away from
the basket), no assist is awarded. There is a little more leeway given
to a pass into the post for an assist than on to a wing player. The
feeling is that the center creates his shot from a standing position
while a wing player is often on the move. If a guy on the wing catches
the pass and then fakes from a stationary position or moves away from
the basket before shooting, I don't give an assist.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2719 | I'd like Havlicek's opinion on Couz vs Stockton | AKOCOA::BREEN | That is enough for me and for thee | Mon Feb 06 1995 15:06 | 27 |
| > If a guy on the wing catches the pass and then fakes from a stationary
>position or moves away from the basket before shooting, I don't give an
>assist
This exactly describes the Stockton assist that broke the record. I
don't know if any of the old time stat-men (reporters in the old days)
are around but I'm sure they'd convince you that assists were tighter
in the pre-70 era.
But you sound like a fair stat-man.
Don't forget when Cousy played his last game to beat the Lakers in '63
that Havlicek was on the court with the one indispensible man, Couz,
who had retired with a bad ankle with the C's comfortably ahead and had
to come back to save it in the last minutes.
You have Havlicek, West, Guy Rogers, Oscar all competing with or
against Cousy, all transcended the 50s and 70s.
I think the biggest difference in the eras was probably the rules and
the interpretations: traveling was called, contact was called, holding
was called.
And re. the Olympics. A lot of the records are equipment, tracks; some
special techniques. Where things stayed the same (except for
sterioids) guys like Oerter were competitive over the span of the
decades.
|
| 10.2720 | Not Bad Head to Head Talent | STRATA::BARBIERI | God cares. | Mon Feb 06 1995 16:14 | 7 |
| re: -1
Boy, if Cousy played with those other people, I would think
he could start today!
Big O would teach all of these present point guards a hundred
things or two!!!
|
| 10.2721 | Vernon Maxwell TKO | PCBUOA::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Asia/Pacific Marketing | Tue Feb 07 1995 15:02 | 2 |
|
|
| 10.2722 | HAW! HAW! HAW! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass to the Final Four! | Wed Feb 08 1995 14:49 | 7 |
| BTW, I wanted to congratulate the Knicks for a couple of things:
1) Their excellent shooting in OT vs Orlando
2) Their not-so-excellent loss lasted night to lowly Milwaukee.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2723 | just following Nazz around... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Feb 08 1995 17:33 | 5 |
| > -< HAW! HAW! HAW! >-
> BTW, I wanted to congratulate the Knicks for a couple of things:
Take your shots at mid-season, Nazz...you won't have any come playoff
time.
|
| 10.2724 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 08 1995 17:36 | 10 |
| 10.2725 | going legal | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Wed Feb 08 1995 17:53 | 11 |
| re: Maxwell.
Firsted of all, there's the criminal/civil/legal thang. Maxwell
supposedly is contending that the other guy threw something at him.
However, in any case, Thorn is gonna have to write him up big time.
The NBA caint have players roaming through the stands trying to get at
the fans. I mean, the nexted thing you know, the player is beating up on
the fans or maybe even spitting on them.
TTom
|
| 10.2726 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Feb 08 1995 18:15 | 8 |
| >Firsted of all, there's the criminal/civil/legal thang. Maxwell
>supposedly is contending that the other guy threw something at him.
Yeah, sure, from 12 rows up ???
The 'legal thing' has to have the NBA sweating. You have to think
that if the lawyer has anything upstairs his client will be sueing
Maxwell, the arena, AND THE NBA.
|
| 10.2727 | maybe | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Wed Feb 08 1995 18:18 | 3 |
| Hey, that's his story and he's stickin to it ;-).
TTom
|
| 10.2728 | s-s-t-t-r-r-e-e-t-t-c-c-h-h-i-i-n-n-g-g---- | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Feb 08 1995 18:18 | 5 |
| > Funny how both of last year's finalists aren't playing so well.
Come again, Mike ? NY's playing at a .644 clip (at or above last year's
pace), has won 17 of their last 21, and all without an All-Star player
and a very valuable backup (Williams).
|
| 10.2729 | DC Looney | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Testudo is still grounded! | Wed Feb 08 1995 18:57 | 6 |
| Regarding the Maxwell incident - I'm surprised that no NBA player has
gone after the looney tune that screams at 'em in the Capital Centre
(USAir Arena?). Then again, I'm surprised the people around him
haven't taken him out.
UMDan
|
| 10.2730 | | TOOK::HALPIN | Jim Halpin, LKG1-3/L6 | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:02 | 18 |
|
Funny, the only other NBA player I can remember going after a
fan is Cedric Maxwell in the Philly Spectrum arround 1981 or so.
Hummm.... is it the name??? :-)
So what other NBA players have gone into the stands?
At least the NBA players don't take off the fan's shoe and
beat him over the head with it, like Mike Milbury did once....
One other thing. ESPN reported that this guy in Portland
was being handed business cards from lawyers as he was being lead from
the arena!!!!
JimH
|
| 10.2731 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:06 | 7 |
| The fan that was heckling Maxwell brought up the fact
that he and his wife had a stillborn baby. It was in
incredibly poor taste, and obviously pushed the guy to
the brink.
There's gotta be some humanity here. I say give Maxwell
a break.
|
| 10.2732 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:21 | 7 |
| >There's gotta be some humanity here. I say give Maxwell
>a break.
I agree that the fan crossed the line (if that's what he said),
but there's no excuse for Maxwell physically assaulting him.
The fan can be removed from the arena.
|
| 10.2733 | Where are the security people ? | MARIN::DODGE | | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:29 | 11 |
| "The fan can be removed from the arena"
That is precisely the point. The NBA must take some action to get
abusive fans out of the arena. That jerk in Washington should be
thrown out for life.
Taunting of players should not be allowed. Players are human too.
Also, any signs that taunt should be thrown out too.
I don't condone what Maxwell did, but fans do not have the right to
yell whatever obscenities, insults, or taunts they can think of.
|
| 10.2734 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:50 | 8 |
| 10.2735 | should be interesting | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:55 | 8 |
| 10.2736 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Wed Feb 08 1995 19:59 | 5 |
| | The guy and his lawyer claim that no profanity or racial slurs were
| used. Just good ole fashioned ribbing. He made some comment about his
Gee, there's a shocker. I expected the guy and his lawyer
to admit the guy was being a scumbag.
|
| 10.2737 | fyi | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 08 1995 20:37 | 6 |
| 10.2738 | who sick of seeing the Suns on the tube | CNTROL::CHILDS | Big Brother >> John Q. Public | Thu Feb 09 1995 11:26 | 10 |
|
David Fricke is the guy in Washington and he doesn't use profanity or racial
slurs so why should he be tossed?????
Alot of the players find hin quite amusing and actuall jaw with him.
Semms to me Mchale went after a guy in Millwalkeeeeeeeeee, grapped him
by the tie and of course Lady Charles the NBA cobra man.
mike
|
| 10.2739 | Phew something stinks | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | JAN,279,270,267,264.230 OR BUST | Thu Feb 09 1995 11:44 | 7 |
|
Celtics 75
Cavs 67
|
| 10.2740 | | CAMONE::WAY | Conspiring to make a mutiny... | Thu Feb 09 1995 11:55 | 2 |
| They must've made a helluva rally, because when I was channel surfing I
came across the score and Boston was down.....
|
| 10.2741 | UgGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGlYYYYYYYYYYY | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | JAN,279,270,267,264.230 OR BUST | Thu Feb 09 1995 12:30 | 14 |
|
This was the box score
1 2 3 4 Final
CLE 26 16 14 13 67
BOS 15 10 24 26 75
NIQUE WAS 3-14 Shooting
williams for Cle was 5-19
Chap
|
| 10.2742 | blew away Indy on their home floor last night :^) | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 09 1995 13:16 | 7 |
| > not a stretch at all. Aren't they at least 3 playoff seeds lower than they
> were last year.
They have the 2nd best record in the Eastern Conference, and are playing
at the same winning % (if not better) than last year. You stated that
the two finalists last year are having problems this year. Obviously,
in the Knicks' case, that's an incorrect statement.
|
| 10.2743 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Feb 09 1995 13:34 | 4 |
| 10.2744 | Standings at the All-Star Break | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Thu Feb 09 1995 13:40 | 90 |
|
Team G W L Pct GB
------------------------------------------------
ORLANDO 47 37 10 0.787 0.0
NEW YORK 46 30 16 0.652 6.5
BOSTON 46 19 27 0.413 17.5
NEW JERSEY 50 19 31 0.380 19.5
MIAMI 46 17 29 0.370 19.5
PHILADELPHIA 48 14 34 0.292 23.5
WASHINGTON 45 11 34 0.244 25.0
CHARLOTTE 48 31 17 0.646 0.0
CLEVELAND 47 28 19 0.596 2.5
INDIANA 46 27 19 0.587 3.0
CHICAGO 47 23 24 0.489 7.5
ATLANTA 48 22 26 0.458 9.0
MILWAUKEE 48 19 29 0.396 12.0
DETROIT 46 17 29 0.370 13.0
UTAH 48 35 13 0.729 0.0
SAN ANTONIO 45 30 15 0.667 3.5
HOUSTON 45 29 16 0.644 4.5
DENVER 45 20 25 0.444 13.5
DALLAS 46 18 28 0.391 16.0
MINNESOTA 47 11 36 0.234 23.5
PHOENIX 48 38 10 0.792 0.0
SEATTLE 44 32 12 0.727 4.0
LA LAKERS 45 29 16 0.644 7.5
PORTLAND 45 25 20 0.556 11.5
SACRAMENTO 45 25 20 0.556 11.5
GOLDEN STATE 44 13 31 0.295 23.0
LA CLIPPERS 47 7 40 0.149 30.5
626 626
ORLANDO 47 37 10 0.787 0.0
NEW YORK 46 30 16 0.652 6.5
CHARLOTTE 48 31 17 0.646 6.5
CLEVELAND 47 28 19 0.596 9.0
INDIANA 46 27 19 0.587 9.5
CHICAGO 47 23 24 0.489 14.0
ATLANTA 48 22 26 0.458 15.5
BOSTON 46 19 27 0.413 17.5
MILWAUKEE 48 19 29 0.396 18.5
NEW JERSEY 50 19 31 0.380 19.5
MIAMI 46 17 29 0.370 19.5
DETROIT 46 17 29 0.370 19.5
PHILADELPHIA 48 14 34 0.292 23.5
WASHINGTON 45 11 34 0.244 25.0
PHOENIX 48 38 10 0.792 0.0
UTAH 48 35 13 0.729 3.0
SEATTLE 44 32 12 0.727 4.0
SAN ANTONIO 45 30 15 0.667 6.5
HOUSTON 45 29 16 0.644 7.5
LA LAKERS 45 29 16 0.644 7.5
PORTLAND 45 25 20 0.556 11.5
SACRAMENTO 45 25 20 0.556 11.5
DENVER 45 20 25 0.444 16.5
DALLAS 46 18 28 0.391 19.0
GOLDEN STATE 44 13 31 0.295 23.0
MINNESOTA 47 11 36 0.234 26.5
LA CLIPPERS 47 7 40 0.149 30.5
PHOENIX 48 38 10 0.792 0.0
ORLANDO 47 37 10 0.787 0.5
UTAH 48 35 13 0.729 3.0
SEATTLE 44 32 12 0.727 4.0
SAN ANTONIO 45 30 15 0.667 6.5
NEW YORK 46 30 16 0.652 7.0
CHARLOTTE 48 31 17 0.646 7.0
HOUSTON 45 29 16 0.644 7.5
LA LAKERS 45 29 16 0.644 7.5
CLEVELAND 47 28 19 0.596 9.5
INDIANA 46 27 19 0.587 10.0
PORTLAND 45 25 20 0.556 11.5
SACRAMENTO 45 25 20 0.556 11.5
CHICAGO 47 23 24 0.489 14.5
ATLANTA 48 22 26 0.458 16.0
DENVER 45 20 25 0.444 16.5
BOSTON 46 19 27 0.413 18.0
MILWAUKEE 48 19 29 0.396 19.0
DALLAS 46 18 28 0.391 19.0
NEW JERSEY 50 19 31 0.380 20.0
MIAMI 46 17 29 0.370 20.0
DETROIT 46 17 29 0.370 20.0
GOLDEN STATE 44 13 31 0.295 23.0
PHILADELPHIA 48 14 34 0.292 24.0
WASHINGTON 45 11 34 0.244 25.5
MINNESOTA 47 11 36 0.234 26.5
LA CLIPPERS 47 7 40 0.149 30.5
|
| 10.2745 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Big Brother >> John Q. Public | Thu Feb 09 1995 14:28 | 10 |
|
three things seem obvious to me:
1. The Champs are on crusie control.
2. The Champs Still own the Suns.
3. Mikey's scared shitless of facing the Champs again.
mike
|
| 10.2746 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 09 1995 14:41 | 4 |
| Well, when Pho signed Manning, Barkley said it was a great addition,
but if they didn't get a 'big guy in the middle', they'd still have
trouble winning it all. Manning was covering the middle, and now
he's gone. Sir Chuck must be bummin' big-time.
|
| 10.2747 | first taste of All-Star fever | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Feb 09 1995 23:30 | 2 |
| 10.2748 | | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Mon Feb 13 1995 13:43 | 13 |
|
What's this about the IRS investigating the NBA referees? Seems that
the refs book first class tickets, then sell them and fly in coach
or use frequent flyer miles for the trip. They charge the league for
the first class tickets and pocket the difference (and don't report the
difference as income). Someone in the know says that the league knows
this is going on, it's a way to make up for the low salaries that the
league pays the refs. The article today stated that the scale for the
refs goes up to $177K. That's for around 77 games. That's not bad
scratch for three (or so) hours of work.
Kevin
|
| 10.2749 | My bet is it was Charles Barkley that dropped the the dime | AKOCOA::BREEN | That is enough for me and for thee | Mon Feb 13 1995 14:08 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2750 | Loughery fired | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Tue Feb 14 1995 21:31 | 5 |
| Loughery has just been fired.
The Heat were sold and this guy's days were numbered.
TTom
|
| 10.2751 | Houston - Portland trade | AKOCOA::BREEN | That is enough for me and for thee | Wed Feb 15 1995 12:45 | 10 |
| Houston has inexplicably traded Otis Thorpe for Clyde Drexler - there
are other bodies and a conditional draft choice.
This removes Houston for any serious chance at a repeat.
Could Houston have done this for box-office - local cable-tv reasons?
Unless swapping draft picks make sense. Portland now has two BE
powerforwards in Robinson and Thorpe. That seems to be the product
that the Big East specializes in.
|
| 10.2752 | Film at 10 | ANGLIN::WIERSBECK | | Wed Feb 15 1995 14:17 | 4 |
| Woofies lose again.
Spud
|
| 10.2753 | Great deal for the Rockets | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass to the Final Four! | Wed Feb 15 1995 14:24 | 10 |
| I think this is a tremendous deal for the Rockets. It not only gives
them the 9th leading scorer in the league, it allows them to phase Mad
Max out of their rotation. I think Ferriera and Bullard will be
adequate at power forward, and Drexler will be great at shooting guard.
They can also go to a smaller lineup with Drexler at forward with
Horry. Drexler will be highly motivated, with the possibility of a
title looming this year. Given Phoenix's injury problems, I make
Houston the new favorite in the West.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2754 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Feb 15 1995 16:33 | 12 |
| Houston sure has added offensive fire-power, but they're going to get
MURDERED on the boards, if not in the West, when/if they get to The Finals.
Drexler's offense is definitely needed against Phoenix, Seattle and Utah.
But I don't see how they'll match-up with NY or Orl.
Since last year's Finals loss to the Rockets, I've wanted a rematch.
With Olajuwon and Thorpe, Houston matched up (somewhat) with NY. But
now, I think the Knicks will destroy the Rockets' frontline. Robert
Horry proved (to me, anyway) that he's a perimeter player, and doesn't
have what it takes to bang with Oakley, Mason, Bonner. So, I'm glad
that this deal will help them beat the West, and that they'll be little
trouble for the Knicks (should both get there).
|
| 10.2755 | Knicks are done - end of story | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass to the Final Four! | Wed Feb 15 1995 17:07 | 5 |
| Face facts, man! The Knicks have almost as much chance to get to the
NBA Finals as the Celtics do! There is no way the Knicks beat either
Indiana or especially Charlotte in the Eastern semis.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2756 | Kind of like chicago last year - they have to be beaten first | AKOCOA::BREEN | That is enough for me and for thee | Wed Feb 15 1995 17:24 | 4 |
| One of those two teams will be playing Orlando in the other semi more
than likely which makes it actually easier for the Knicks. Until one
of these three has shown (actually) playoff defence then NY has to be a
co-favorite.
|
| 10.2757 | | METSNY::francus | There is no joy in Mudville | Wed Feb 15 1995 18:31 | 3 |
| You're gonna eat those words BIG time, Nazz!
The Crazy Met
|
| 10.2758 | rebounds bring rings | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Wed Feb 15 1995 20:41 | 4 |
| 10.2759 | could be bad for both | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Thu Feb 16 1995 12:39 | 7 |
| On paper, Houston is now the worsted rebounding team in the league.
I think it was a fairly stupid trade for both teams. This gives Houston
way more guards than it needs and too few front line players. Meanwhile,
most of Portland's team is now on the front line.
TTom
|
| 10.2760 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | If nothing's right, What's wrong? | Thu Feb 16 1995 12:58 | 3 |
| The Rockets' players aren't too happy about it...........
mike
|
| 10.2761 | dumb and dumber | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Thu Feb 16 1995 13:12 | 6 |
| How is it going to work out with Clyde and Maxwell? Who gets the minutes?
Does Clyde move to 3?
Oh yeah, then there's the $8 mil balloon payment.
TTom
|
| 10.2762 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 16 1995 13:23 | 5 |
| >most of Portland's team is now on the front line.
How many forwards do they have ???
How many shots do both Olajuwon and Drexler average/game ?
|
| 10.2763 | some of 'em | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Thu Feb 16 1995 13:53 | 6 |
| Right off the top o' the haid:
Cliff Robinson, Bryant, Kersey, Buck Williams, Harvey Grant, and now Otis
Thorpe.
TTom
|
| 10.2764 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 16 1995 14:38 | 5 |
| >Cliff Robinson, Bryant, Kersey, Buck Williams, Harvey Grant, and now Otis
>Thorpe.
All decent/good players. Gotta be setting up for another trade sometime
between now and draft day.
|
| 10.2765 | time's running out | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Thu Feb 16 1995 14:39 | 6 |
| I agree.
About the onliest thing that makes sense in this trade is that both teams
are getting ready to make another trade.
TTom
|
| 10.2766 | My $.02 on Clyde Gliding to Houston. | NWD002::JOYNER_GL | Did I do that? | Thu Feb 16 1995 16:16 | 42 |
| I guess it's about time I enter a Portland fan's perspective on this
trade. I think Bob Whittsit did a good job in this trade. This is the
first step in his "master plan" for the Blazers. He had to get rid of
Clyde because of two reasons. One, he has that baloon payment next
year. That would really hose up the salary cap for any other deals the
Blazers would want to make. The second reason is that if you don't
trade him this year, you really wouldn't be able to next year because
of the baloon. Nobody would want to take a player with a huge baloon
payment, and take the chance of loosing him at season's end.(he's a
free agent after next season.) The problems Bob had to face were, how
could he get any value for an aging player, and how in the world could
he do this and not have the fans lynch him. After all Clyde is the
most popular Blazer of all time, not to mention arguably the best
player in team history. Well, Clyde made the last part easy. He
started making a stink in the media about wanting to be traded. He
told the city that it was nothing against his teammates or the fans,
because he loved them all. It was strictly a beef with management.
That took the heat off of Whittsit. Now he could trade him and the
fans would say, "Clyde's the one that wanted to leave." I think Bob
did an excellent job of trading Clyde to the team he wanted to go to
most, and getting a pretty good deal in return. Let's face it, Otis
Thorpe is a heck of a player. He's a lot better than some of the
trades proposed. The Blazers also get a conditional first round pick
and the rights to some 6-10 Argentinian currently playing in Europe.
I think if you asked all of the GM's in the NBA to pick either Clyde
or Otis for their team today, most of them would pick Otis. Thorpe
brings something to the Blazers that they need badly. Front line
scoring. Currently the Blazers are starting Buck and Chris Dudley at
the 4 and 5 spot. That's not a lot of scoring there, folks. Thorpe is
a great rebounder and a tough defender, too. This team is already a
very good rebounding team, now they will be even better. Go Blazers!!
Sure I'm going to miss Clyde. He brought a tremendous amount of
excitement to this team over his career. He is wonderful person in the
community and did an awfull lot for the children in the Portland area.
The kids are the ones who'll miss him the most. He did say on an
interview last night that Portland will always be his home and he
thanked the city and the fans for all of their support through the
years. I look forward to seeing him in the community alot after he
retires.
Glen.
|
| 10.2767 | Fans do have short memories | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR | Fri Feb 17 1995 12:33 | 8 |
| .2766:
> he do this and not have the fans lynch him. After all Clyde is the
> most popular Blazer of all time, not to mention arguably the best
> player in team history.
Have they forgotten Bill Walton and the championship he won for them?
Steve
|
| 10.2768 | Googs traded, agin | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Sun Feb 19 1995 12:25 | 10 |
| Calling Mike Heiser, he of the caint trade a firsted year person fame.
Donyell Marshall, hisself a first-year contract person, was traded to
them Golden State Warriors fer my main, Tom Gugliotta.
I'm sure this trade will be voided after Stern checks with ::CELTICS.
;-).
TTom
|
| 10.2769 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Mon Feb 20 1995 11:26 | 7 |
| good trade for Marshall, he'll play much better in the open
Warrior game than the pathetic T'wolves game. Look for his
numbers to go up 5-10 points a game.
Goog's and Laetner must have traded a few elbows in college
Jimbo
|
| 10.2770 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Mon Feb 20 1995 12:16 | 5 |
| | Goog's and Laetner must have traded a few elbows in college
Talk is that the Woofies have something lined up for Laetner
before the trading deadline thised week. Haven't heard who/
where/etc.
|
| 10.2771 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Fifteen 2, Fifteen 4, and 3 is 5 | Mon Feb 20 1995 12:27 | 5 |
|
Were the 'Woofs inspired by the trade? They beat Orlando 100-95
yesterday.
Ron
|
| 10.2772 | Marshall = the next Chris Morris? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass to the Final Four! | Mon Feb 20 1995 12:50 | 13 |
| Rumor I heard was that Googs was blackballed by Sprewell and others on
the Warriors. Wouldn't pass him the ball, didn't associate with him
off the court, etc. Only name I heard NOT in this consporacy was
Hardaway. As if it was Gugliotta's fault that Webber and Nelson
couldn't get along!!!
So once again GS gets 80 cents on the dollar talent-wise in a trade.
If this helps Sprewell be less of a selfish, sulking, whining baby,
then this might turn into a good deal for the Warriors. It will surely
help the Woofs, since Marshall was as close to a total bust as the 4th
pick in the country could be.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2773 | bunch o' trade rumors | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Mon Feb 20 1995 13:18 | 21 |
| This is the week for trade's if'n they're gonna get done. The deadline is
Thursday.
Some of the rumors:
Hersey Hawkins for Otis Thorpe: the Hornets say no but it's still being
reported.
Altanta sending Stacy Augmon and Grant Long to New Jersey for malcontent
Derrick Coleman.
There's several rumors on the Twolves moving Laettner to about any one
who will take him.
And of course, every body and their brother is supposedly still going
after Scottie Pippen. One of this is the Williams "brothers" in Denver
and a #1 for Pippen.
And I'm sure there's more.
TTom
|
| 10.2774 | possible matchups | HBAHBA::HAAS | Plan 9 from Outer Space | Wed Feb 22 1995 13:55 | 16 |
| If'n the playoffs started today:
(1)ORLANDO (40-12) (4)CLEVELAND (32-20)
(8)BOSTON (21-30) (5)INDIANA (30-20)
(2)CHARLOTTE (33-19) (3)NEW YORK (33-18)
(7)ATLANTA (24-28) (6)CHICAGO (26-27)
(1)PHOENIX (40-12) (4)SAN ANTONIO (33-16)
(8)PORTLAND (27-23) (5)LA LAKERS (32-17)
(2)UTAH (37-15) (3)SEATTLE (35-15)
(7)SACRAMENTO (28-21) (6)HOUSTON (32-19)
TTom
|
| 10.2775 | 30 Big Ones | STRATA::BARBIERI | God cares. | Wed Feb 22 1995 15:05 | 1 |
| Dennis Rodman: 30 boards!!
|
| 10.2776 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Wed Feb 22 1995 16:55 | 9 |
| 10.2777 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Thu Feb 23 1995 14:02 | 1 |
| 10.2778 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Feb 23 1995 15:47 | 5 |
| 10.2779 | Unfortunate.. | SWAM1::KAWA_MI | | Sat Feb 25 1995 01:17 | 4 |
|
Too bad you can appreciate basketball vs. brawlball.
|
| 10.2780 | top rookies thus far | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Mar 07 1995 17:46 | 17 |
| 10.2781 | MJ the money machine... | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:14 | 12 |
| So is it just me, or is this "Michael's Comeback" thang give you a little bad
taste in mouth?
Without getting into the gamblers on the grassy knoll thing, it was bad enough
that he made his comeback in a nationally televised game, but it made me spit
when he came out wearing #45, so that adoring youth everywhere could spend their
allowances on paraphanalia with #45 on it, and that their old stuff was out of
date.
Comercialism rules again.
=bob=
|
| 10.2782 | Cant find whats not there, if it was there it would be known | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:20 | 16 |
| So I guess a little thing like his father Dying would mean nothing to
you.... I guess you know just how anybodies father being murdered
would effect them...
My wife said from the start that His father watched him play his last
game and she was shocked (More then me) that he was coming back... I
can see (And understand) him not wearing #23, but as usual some people
will find away to take everythind and anything he does and tarnish it.
The Reporters in this country can find out when/where/who/how every
politician scratches his but, but they cant find any proof that MJ
gambled on basketball... Could it be that he never did... NAW that
cant be it he must be crooked, no one can be that clean... FInd the
proof and you'll be a millionaire
MaB
|
| 10.2783 | | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:23 | 10 |
|
> So I guess a little thing like his father Dying would mean nothing to
> you.... I guess you know just how anybodies father being murdered
> would effect them...
Certainly my first reaction would be to change my number...
glenn
|
| 10.2784 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:31 | 13 |
|
>> Certainly my first reaction would be to change my number...
It wasn't his first, second or third reaction. I can understand
his reasoning for not wearing #23. Not everyone has a hidden
agenda and at $30 million per year, Mikey doesn't need one. I
guess Mikey just got tired fo the morons running or not running
baseball and decided to opt for a properly run sport.
I have a bigger problem with the way alot of folks (me a little
too) can hardly wait for convicted rapist, Mike Tyson, to get out
of the slammer so's he can entertain us all yet again with his
wonderful ability to knock men senseless. Talk about skewed values.
|
| 10.2785 | Mebbe it's cuz he was (and hopefully is) so dominant | PCBUOA::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Asia/Pacific Marketing | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:35 | 3 |
| Tommy, I'm ashamed to say I'm the same way with Tyson.
Mark.
|
| 10.2786 | MairB is like a Phoenix (no, MairB, not a Pheonix Sun) risen from the ashes | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:37 | 20 |
| | So I guess a little thing like his father Dying would mean nothing to
| you.... I guess you know just how anybodies father being murdered
| would effect them...
Welcome back MairB.
I know that your powers of deductive reasoning are far superior to mine, but
just how did what I said have any reflection on how I felt about his father
dying. Although I never made the connection, actually my mother's health is
failing badly, and I'm sure that when the inevitable happens, I will feel a deep
loss, much like when Jordan lost his father.
On the other hand, divorce yourself from Mr. Jordan, and make an attempt at
objectivity. What would a thinking man such as yourself think if, say, Magic
Johnson decided to come back again, and decided to change numbers? Can you
really beleive that it would have NOTHING to do with the commercial potential.
Wake up and smell the Bull droppings.
=bob=
|
| 10.2787 | there's that n word again | AKOCOA::BREEN | The roar of the paint | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:41 | 10 |
| I see that the alleged murderers of Jordan pere have still not been put
on trial. Jordan definitely had more gambling ties than any non-owner
in sports it seems. Ironically betting on basketball would not fit his
gambling profile - he seems to like to bet just for the recreation it
gives him.
Tyson is a bad comparison. If he wasn't Mike Tyson he would never have
been arrested, nor tried, nor convicted and would have been
immeadiately released by the judge when informed that the plaintiff had
tried and failed the same scam years earlier.
|
| 10.2789 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:57 | 6 |
| 10.2790 | that's okay, you're just a liberal | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Mar 20 1995 17:58 | 1 |
| 10.2791 | It ain't Jordan, he's just #1 property of NBA Marketing | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:01 | 32 |
|
> It wasn't his first, second or third reaction. I can understand
> his reasoning for not wearing #23. Not everyone has a hidden
> agenda and at $30 million per year, Mikey doesn't need one. I
> guess Mikey just got tired fo the morons running or not running
> baseball and decided to opt for a properly run sport.
Unfortunately in the case of the Bulls and the White Sox, it's the same
man (one Jerry Reinsdorf). I have little doubt but that the decision
was _not_ Jordan's. Jordan doesn't receive the licensing revenues from
the sale of his jersey. It was undoubtedly all part of the deal for
his return (albeit a minor part) and I agree, he doesn't have much say
in the matter if the Bulls and the NBA "strongly suggest" he switch
numbers. I don't hold it against him personally but there's little
question that the NBA is the most commercialized team sport there
is in an increasingly commercialized sports world. It's another scam
but if you're prone to being so easily scammed it's hard to say who's
most to blam.
As I said before, I welcome Jordan's return. The NBA is where he
belongs (although in baseball's current state, he could have easily
fit in as a "major league" player-- he isn't that good but no one
would have been able to tell the difference). As for Tyson, forget it;
I don't think any first fight of his will be worth the $50 strictly on
its boxing merits, forgetting about all the rest. I don't think he'll
ever return to his former prominence but especially not in his first
(and likely most lucrative) fight. Look for a whole lot of casual fans
to be left feeling ripped off, which in boxing terms means about the
usual.
glenn
|
| 10.2792 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Kete, SS-306, On Eternal Patrol | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:04 | 16 |
| I have to admit that I too have been waiting with some anticipation
to see how things will go when Mike Tyson gets outta jail....
I watched some of Jordan's game on Sunday. Nothing spectacular, but I'll
tell you what I think -- if you forget about the gambling and all that
stuff, I think that Mikey is a better "star" for the NBA than some of the
I-I-me-me Derrick Coleman or Shaq types out there now.
I always kind of got the impression that Jordan wanted his TEAM to win,
regardless of his personal accomplishments. I don't see that with
any of today's stars other than Grant Hill.....
'Saw
|
| 10.2793 | Does it matter what number he wears??? | TOOK::HALPIN | TIMEOUT!!! oops, never mind... | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:08 | 17 |
|
I didn't buy a paper today, so I don't know if I'm missing
something.
Is there some significant to the number 45?
Did the Bulls or Jordan give a reason for not using his old
number?
Have they scheduled a retirement night for #45 yet??? :-)
Have kids all over the nation started wearing their shorts
backwards yet?? :-)
JimH
|
| 10.2794 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:09 | 7 |
|
Well, my year-or-so of actually enjoying watching Jordan's sporting
pursuits (if not the over-coverage) has come crashing to a halt.
I'm glad the Bulls didn't trade his rights to Boston; the level
of media play he's getting is bad enough as it is.
Joe
|
| 10.2795 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | bumhiem, lappas...idiots | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:14 | 6 |
| Did anybody else think that Jordan tried to trip Miller at the end of
regulation ? The announcers didn't touch this (probably because of
who did it), but it looked intentional, and resulted in Miller having
to leave the game.
Imagine if it had been a NY Knick ????
|
| 10.2796 | First he wore #1, then 23, now 45, so his next number is 67! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass to the Final Four! | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:16 | 3 |
| It was his baseball number.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2797 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Kete, SS-306, On Eternal Patrol | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:42 | 11 |
| I had a hard time seeing that it was intentional, but then I don't watch
that much hoops.
It could have been, considering he committed himself WAY too soon, and with
his athletic ability he managed to react and get parts of himself out there
to block Miller's way. Miller faked Mikey right outta his jock....8^)
'Saw
|
| 10.2798 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:45 | 25 |
| >> man (one Jerry Reinsdorf). I have little doubt but that the decision
>> was _not_ Jordan's.
So Michael's saying that he's not wearing #23 because it was the
last number that his father saw him wear is all a part of Reinsdorf's
little marketing scheme with Mikey as his willing dupe? I think you're
all wet. No way does Mikey sell out the name of his dad for a few
bucks.
>> As for Tyson, forget it; I don't think any first fight of his will be
>> worth the $50 strictly on its boxing merits,
Well, duh. First off, it's unlikely that the first fight will be on PPV.
HBO or Showtime are more likely and it will be one of the most watched
events ever on either even though it's inlikely that he'' be fighting
a live body.
>> I don't think he'll ever return to his former prominence but especially
>> not in his first (and likely most lucrative) fight.
You don't understand boxing. His first fight will be aginast a complete
pushover. Each subsequent fight will be against (maybe) tougher compet-
tition and (definitely) for more money. There's a hundred plus mil
riding on Foreman-Tyson and it will happen.
|
| 10.2799 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:46 | 5 |
| re .2790
And Mikey, shut up. Amazing that you aren't trumpeting ASU making
the Sweet 16. Is it because they had a wimpy road in or because
they're going to get punk slapped by Kentucky or both?
|
| 10.2800 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Kete, SS-306, On Eternal Patrol | Mon Mar 20 1995 18:48 | 8 |
| Did Jordan say he wouldn't wear 23 because of his dad? I don't know, I didn't
hear the press conference.
I just assumed he wore 45 because it was his baseball number and because
23 was retired.....
'Saw
|
| 10.2801 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Mar 20 1995 19:09 | 11 |
| 10.2802 | Jordan has said many things, but is entitled to change his mind | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Mon Mar 20 1995 19:46 | 53 |
|
>> man (one Jerry Reinsdorf). I have little doubt but that the decision
>> was _not_ Jordan's.
>
> So Michael's saying that he's not wearing #23 because it was the
> last number that his father saw him wear is all a part of Reinsdorf's
> little marketing scheme with Mikey as his willing dupe?
Could be Jordan's way of rationalizing the suggestion, even unknowingly.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (I know I don't trust Reinsdorf's
account of anything). What number was he wearing in his Chicago Stadium
exhibitions? It seems like a fairly trivial thing but everybody's got
their own thing, I guess. What I do know is that previously his
basketball retirement was expressed in dedication to his father because
_that_ (winning the third championship in his last game) was the final
memory with his dad. This in turn precipitated the drive for another
of his father's dreams, for him to play major-league baseball, and the
attempt was roundly defended on those terms. Strike or no strike,
with Jordan needing more time in the minors anyway, it seems like that
goal was chucked over pretty quickly as this late-season NBA return
came about in rapid fashion. Still, weighing the realities of his
baseball talents against any such dreams and his age, I think that,
absolutely, he's doing the best thing. I just don't believe that
unthinkably huge earnings potential in his twilight years doesn't have
a lot to do with it. That's his right, though; I'm just not going to
be naive (nor cynical, I don't think) about it.
>> I don't think he'll ever return to his former prominence but especially
>> not in his first (and likely most lucrative) fight.
>
> You don't understand boxing. His first fight will be aginast a complete
> pushover. Each subsequent fight will be against (maybe) tougher compet-
> tition and (definitely) for more money. There's a hundred plus mil
> riding on Foreman-Tyson and it will happen.
This isn't about boxing so much as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for
the ages. And I understand boxing well enough to know that they'll do
whatever they do to maximize the take over a goal of making Mike Tyson
the legitimate champion of the world. If that means fighting a handful
of stiffs before the big one, that's what they'll do. If it means a big
one right away, they'll do that without reservation for Tyson's (perhaps
limited) future. At the very least I can see them staying away from any
box-office stiff with even the remotest chance of sitting Tyson down (and
that could include any one of the _real_ top 20 heavyweights in the
world). But I _thought_ that Rock Newman's $150M proposal was for Tyson
to work himself into shape and then go at it with Bowe right out of the
chute. And in this special instance, for all the wrong reasons, I can
see going after that relatively quickly because with America's short
attention span, many non-boxing fans won't care so much about
Tyson-Anybody after the first fight. This is not at all a possibility?
glenn
|
| 10.2803 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Mar 20 1995 19:50 | 11 |
|
>> Once again, your expectations show how much you know and what you're
>> made of. Unlike you, I'm not saying anything since all I know of
>> Kentucky is that they're a top 5 team and they press a lot like ASU
>> does.
Just be glad that Frank Perdue retired because I don't think his kid
has Frankie's natural ability to spot a grade A chicken otherwise he'd
be plucking you as we speak. Your boys had it easy until now. Now, they
have to beat *somebody* and you know they can't do it.
|
| 10.2804 | of course they're also a top 5 team | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Mon Mar 20 1995 20:32 | 1 |
| 10.2805 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Mar 21 1995 11:07 | 27 |
| I guess it doesnt matter what anyone type's in this notesfile. The
Anti Jordan/bulls type will always try and find a twist to make
everything jordan does or says dirty, greedy and wrong... Hey thats
your right and I wont step on them, but I guess I'm always hooked up
on that Innocent until proven guilty thing.
Jordan did say he wouldnt wear #23 because that was the # his dad last
saw him wearing in Game 6 VS Phoenix (His last game before Sunday).
MJ Gambled on Cards and Golf there is now and never has been any shread
of evidence/proof that he gambeld on ANY SPORTS games what so ever.
And Unlike some I won't slander anyone without proof. Even though I
have a gut feeling from the facts presented that OJ Is proberbly Guilty
I couldn't flip the switch (Im not ready to send him to jail for life
either). Of course I always thought that when COPS Screwed up (Which
the LA one's seem to do) They should be punished (Fines/Jail
Sentences). but thats another ball game...
Jordan's back, he will entertain us and will revive the NBA, its good
for Basketball and good for sports. Im glad he's back and will enjoy
watching him play, I still don't think they will regain the chemistry
they once had. Even with 4 remaining from the first team I dont see
them getting the Fire back they once had. And I still wouldnt be
surprised to see Pippen or BJ somewhere else (for more $$$) They each
have 3 rings, how much drive for a fourth one do they have ???
I came this close to getting tickets for Bulls at Boston... Bummed
|
| 10.2806 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue Mar 21 1995 11:25 | 25 |
|
> I guess it doesnt matter what anyone type's in this notesfile. The
> Anti Jordan/bulls type will always try and find a twist to make
> everything jordan does or says dirty, greedy and wrong... Hey thats
> your right and I wont step on them, but I guess I'm always hooked up
> on that Innocent until proven guilty thing.
Ummm... a presumption of innocence is all well and good, but there's
a lot of dirty, greedy, wrong, and innocent people in this world...
> And Unlike some I won't slander anyone without proof.
How is speculating slander? Unless I missed it (a decided
possibility), all I seen are questions about Jordan's gambling,
_not_ statements that he did gamble.
> Jordan's back, he will entertain us and will revive the NBA, its good
> for Basketball and good for sports.
IYHO. He won't entertain me, and will make me follow the NBA less
closely. It's also showing me, upon reflection, how little enjoyment
I'm getting out of the NFL, and thus having the effect of diminishing
my interest in sports.
Joe
|
| 10.2807 | ex | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Tue Mar 21 1995 12:07 | 41 |
| >> This in turn precipitated the drive for another of his father's
>> dreams, for him to play major-league baseball, and the attempt was
>> roundly defended on those terms. Strike or no strike,
I don't remember it that way at all. What I do remember is Michael
saying that he always loved baseball and wanted the opportunity to
try and play major league ball.
>> I just don't believe that unthinkably huge earnings potential in his
>> twilight years doesn't have a lot to do with it. That's his right,
>> though; I'm just not going to be naive (nor cynical, I don't think)
>> about it.
The guy made $30 million last year. How much more could he make (never
mind *need*)? I think it's obviously and terribly cynical to think
that this comeback and invoking his father's name is nothing but a
ploy to grab big bucks. I think it's as simple as - Michael is bored.
>> If it means a big one right away, they'll do that without reservation
>> for Tyson's (perhaps limited) future.
Not going to happen. The only conceivable way that it could happen is
that Tyson's skills have atrophied so badly that they don't think he
could beat even the most dented tomato can they can drag out of the junk
heap. Nope, if Mike is anywhere in the ballpark of where he was when
he went in, a three fight progression to a fight with Foreman will be
the most lucrative campaign in the history of the sport.
>> But I _thought_ that Rock Newman's $150M proposal was for Tyson to work
>> himself into shape and then go at it with Bowe right out of the chute.
>> This is not at all a possibility?
Bowe doesn't have that kind of appeal. No where close. For $150 million
you're talking a PPV audience of 5+ million homes. The casual fan, and
that's where the money is, isn't going to pay $30-$40 to see the guy
who lost to pipsqueak Evander Holyfield fight a rusty Mike Tyson. The
only guy who can make a $150 million fight with Tyson is George Foreman
as sad a commentary as that may be on the state of the heavyweight div-
ision.
|
| 10.2808 | "Need" has seemingly never entered into it before... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Tue Mar 21 1995 12:33 | 26 |
|
> The guy made $30 million last year. How much more could he make (never
> mind *need*)? I think it's obviously and terribly cynical to think
> that this comeback and invoking his father's name is nothing but a
> ploy to grab big bucks. I think it's as simple as - Michael is bored.
That likely is the biggest part of it. However, for all his wealth,
Jordan has never been one to turn down many commercial endorsement
opportunities. When it comes to personal marketing the guy is one of
the shrewdest athletes ever. I think that it's unlikely that the
$30M/year would continue to roll in unabated if Jordan were to
continue to play in relative anonymity in the minor leagues of a sport
that is currently dead at its highest level, and he realizes that.
Baseball is in a world of hurt (especially financially, with its
marketability); now is the time to get out.
As far as his father goes, even though Jordan has invoked his memory
on more than a few instances as motivation for his actions, and
contradictorily in some instances, I don't believe that there are any
ill motivations here on his part. I said that before. What I do
believe is that ultimately money is a part of getting back into the
NBA for his final years as an active athlete. And when you get down
to it there's really nothing wrong with that...
glenn
|
| 10.2809 | I gained some respect for the man | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Tue Mar 21 1995 13:11 | 58 |
| It's interesting reading all of everyone's speculation on Michael, his
uniform number and why he came back. Of course, being in Chicago, the
feeding frenzy was at it's best (worst) until the post-game interview
with Michael on Sunday. They carried it live here and he answered most
of the questions everyone's asking.
First of all, he went back to #45 for a couple reasons. He mentioned
that #23 was what his father saw him play in and he wanted to leave
that memory and not pull down the uniform that had been raised up last
year. Secondly, #45 was his first number as a kid, only his brother
took it from him and he had to take #23. So he was now getting his
first choice and how this was a fresh start of a new era.
Secondly, he's returning to basketball for the love of the game mainly.
He said that each time he'd play pickup ball, he had more of a taste to
get back into it. He also mentioned the younger players of today and
how many of them aren't carrying on the responsibility of acting
professional and lending integrity to the game. He talked about how
guys like Larry, Magic and Dr. J had played and how the respect carried
with them. Today's younger players aren't carrying the game with the
same respect on and off the court. He said that just because you earn
a huge paycheck, it doesn't give you the authority to mistreat the
game. He wants to bring some professionalism back to the game.
He said that he isn't coming back for the money, because he doesn't
have to. He still loves the game. He also wants to revitalize the
sports scene in the city of Chicago. He didn't like what direction the
team was heading.
He came back for the Indiana game because he knew his timing would be
off for a couple games and he didn't want to have his debut at home vs.
Orlando and struggle like he suspected he would against a very good
team.
He was also very embarrassed about all the media attention where people
were making him God-like. He's just a human being.
He also talked about needing a mental break away from the game at the
time of his father's death. He wanted to be around his family more.
He thought with baseball, he'd have more time to spend with them, but
found he was on the road actually more. He decided to leave baseball
when he was stuck in the middle of the strike. He said what a tough
situation it is for the minor-league players down there. He has more
respect for the minor leaguers and the struggles they go through.
Finally, some personal comments. I hope my reiterations of his
comments come across the way Michael portrayed them. I was never
really a big Jordan fan prior to moving here - which happened to be
during the Knick series of '93. But listening to him talk the other
day, I could tell it was from his heart. He wasn't trying to BS
anyone. He's gone through a lot and been scrutinized on every move.
Deep down he's back because... he LOVES the game. It's as simple as
that. He still has time to play at the level only he would be
satisfied with. I wish him the best.
Spud
|
| 10.2810 | Its easy to see these things when you're objective | AKOCOA::BREEN | The roar of the paint | Tue Mar 21 1995 13:12 | 13 |
| The Jordan situation is a good example of how a sound Cap strategy can
still backfire. Chicago signed Jordan (and apparently Pippen) to
excellent contracts which anticipated the inflation of salaries of the
mid-90s.
Jordan saw that he was being paid a mere pittance relative to his worth
and instead of outright retiring took the baseball junket. Poor Pippen
didn't quite have the leverage to do the same and was reduced to
pouting.
Btw - I liked Pippens quote the other day "Love to have a past member
of the team back". He was obviously referring to Horace Grant but it
went right over the media's head.
|
| 10.2811 | | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Tue Mar 21 1995 13:19 | 16 |
| The heard the Bulls announced yesterday they would pay Michael his full
amount of $4M for this year, even though he's only playing the last
portion of the season. As far as I know, there won't be any changes to
the current contract until after it expires at the end of next year.
He did indicate that he would be interested in playing beyond that
time.
Obviously, if he was doing it for the money he could demand more, but
he's not.
One other point he cleared up. He did not demand that Scottie and
Jackson stay with the team as part of his return. He said he asked
about them, but that it had nothing to do with his return.
Spud
|
| 10.2812 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Mar 21 1995 13:49 | 2 |
| 10.2813 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Tue Mar 21 1995 13:54 | 9 |
|
I rally enjoyed the relative piece and quite in hear, while Michael was
goned. It seamed that we could all consentrate on sports and not the
many side shows that he invariably generated.
Oh, but I'm glad to here that Michael Jordan also came back.
brews
|
| 10.2814 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Globe 2, Calipari 1 | Tue Mar 21 1995 14:09 | 9 |
|
Michael has been receiving his Bull's paycheck. During the entire
time he was retired. So he received all of last years money. Plus, he
has been getting paid his 4 million this year all along. So the 4
million is not just for the rest of the season. Jerry Reinsdorf was
paying him as a thankyou for all the money you've made me. Same as
the Lakers paying Magic his 10 million ballon payment this year.
Ron
|
| 10.2815 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | bumhiem, lappas...idiots | Tue Mar 21 1995 14:30 | 12 |
| > One other point he cleared up. He did not demand that Scottie and
> Jackson stay with the team as part of his return. He said he asked
> about them, but that it had nothing to do with his return.
It's obvious that Chicago is delighted to have this 'cash cow' back, but
does it make things more difficult for the Bulls in terms of rebuilding
this team ? The rumors had them trading Scottie Pippen before this
year's draft for the whole lottery (practically) so they could rebuild.
I can't imagine them doing that to Michael. Before they got a good
supporting cast, the Bulls had a superstar, but not a team that could
contend for the title. With 2 superstars and not much else, are they
almost in the same boat ?
|
| 10.2816 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Kete, SS-306, On Eternal Patrol | Tue Mar 21 1995 14:32 | 23 |
| I'm not a big NBA hoops fan, most of you know that.
But I agree with many of the folks, analysts, fans etc, who feel that
Michael coming back is good for the game.
There's been a tremendous surge in the NBA of late, of players who don't
posses a team concept. It's definitely the 'me' generation.
I've heard many of them called by the term "man-child" and I think it is
apt. Many coaches have left positions due in part to the tantrums by
the likes of Derrick Coleman and others.
Probably the worst example of it all was the attitude many of these
man-children displayed towards Grant Hill around the All-Star break, saying t
they were gonna "get him" or "shut him out" or something, because he's
a goody-two-shoes or something like that.
Jordan brings back a work-ethic and a respect for team that is lacking in
the NBA. Lots of these younger "man-children" should take a look and
take a lesson....
'Saw
|
| 10.2817 | not necessarily good for the game | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Tue Mar 21 1995 14:42 | 22 |
| >Michael coming back is good for the game.
I'm not so sure about this. The NBA seems to be on a slippery slope with
their image of late. Jordan coming back only proves how precarious it is.
They've spent so much time and money hyping themselves into the
entertainment side of things that they've almost forgotten that they're a
sport. Jordan only plays into this.
So he comes back for a couple of years. Then what. The league will be
left with likes of Derrick Colemans as the "stars". Sir Chuck will be
gone. Shaq will be tired of working and looking to extending his rap
career.
And, at or about that time, look for the mother of all labor disputes as
the players will no longer be content with the salary cap.
All in all, it just looks like stalling for time.
IMHO
TTom
|
| 10.2818 | Friday night vs. Orlando on WGN/TNT catch it! | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Tue Mar 21 1995 14:52 | 24 |
| Re: Ron
Don't know where you got your information, but all along the word here
has been that Michael has not received one cent while retired from the
Bulls. That's why yesterday's announcement that he would get his full
salary (instead of just the portion he plays) made the news.
Joe,
I don't think I'd call this a two man team. Actually, the whole reason
Kukoc came here in the first place was to play with Jordan. He's an
excellent passer and along with being a good shooter and driving the
lane another very good offensive weapon. Add BJ and Kerr on the
outside (while defenses double Michael and concern themselves with Pip)
and this team has the potential to be an outstanding offensive team
once everyone gets familiar. The defense should also improve. The one
thing it lacks is the power forward whose main job is to rebound. In
other words, Horace. But we'll see. They should be able to do quite
well in any event.
There is reason to believe.
Spud
|
| 10.2819 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Tue Mar 21 1995 15:02 | 9 |
|
>> I'll take Super Mario against anyone in the country.
You said that you didn't know much about Kentucky. You
obviously don't know much about the rest of the country
either if you're opinion is that high of Mario. In the
Pac-10, he's a big fish in a small pond. Up against the
like of Marcus Camby, Joe Smith et al, he's a minnow
in the ocean. ASU has one chance against Kentucky - none.
|
| 10.2820 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | The roar of the paint | Tue Mar 21 1995 15:03 | 8 |
| Spud, does this mean you're happy with Luc Longley and Will Perdue?
I've said all along that the key to Chicago beating the Knicks was the
interior defense and along with Horace they got excellent playoff
performances from Cartwright and the N.C. Williams (who I now hear has
some kind of draft choice arrangement coupled to his playoff time
(NJ?)).
So without the interior domination they won't beat teams that have it.
|
| 10.2821 | Don't forget Michael's D | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Tue Mar 21 1995 15:21 | 13 |
| I wouldn't ever say I'm happy with Purdue and Longley. But it'll be
the same situation as last year. You have 15 fouls (along with
Wennington's) to give on Patrick. The difference between last year and
this year is that come crunch time, there'll be Michael. Where the
Bulls had big-time problems getting a shot come the fourth quarter,
he'll be there to create. When the Knicks swarm him, he can dump off
to the open man much like they did Sunday.
We'll see what happens. I'm not guaranteeing anything. I just like
the Bulls chances to advance.
Spud
|
| 10.2822 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Mar 21 1995 15:41 | 16 |
| 10.2823 | Mario, ASU overrated | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Tue Mar 21 1995 16:19 | 25 |
| re Jordan
He's was listed earlier in the year by the NBA as
"Michael Jordan (Chi) ........ $3,850,000 (retired)".
Yes, he definitely was getting this money. The onliest impact his
activation has is that now the Bulls gotta pay him the league miminum,
prorated for the remaining games.
re: Mario and the Maui
Ancient freakin history. Mario is good, about the level of honorable
mention AA. Definitely below Smith, Duncan, and Wallace. In a game
he might be better'n Big Country. PAC10 is weak in the middle compared to
the really good conferences.
And speaking of ASU, lasted night ESPN had a_interview with Frieder. He's
still whining about being fired afore the NCAAs by Bo just cause he
signed a contract with ASU. Among other things, he was gloating about
how he's built up the attendance at home games all the way to 10,000
people! Watta joke! Wattsa matter out there, Mike. Don't none of you fans
actually go to those games? NC State draws better.
TTom
|
| 10.2824 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Grace changes everything | Tue Mar 21 1995 16:25 | 12 |
| 10.2825 | current | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Tue Mar 21 1995 16:39 | 7 |
| He's still whining. They makes it up to date and current. Just like that
John Thompson towel, he wears this like a cross.
Now don't get me wrong. I'd love to see ASU whoop Kentucky. But barring
some major upset, it just aint gonna happen.
TTom
|
| 10.2826 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed Mar 22 1995 11:14 | 13 |
| Not that it matter but they had to list MJ's money Because it still
counted against the CAP ? Im not sure, but I think they have to lose
his right's before they can use the slot so it would have stayed there
next season as well (Had he not returned).
THe guy could cleary write his own contract for any amount, and a
lesser player would wont alot more...
MaB
And MJ does not bring all the controversy back, the media/noter's
with nothing better to do then dig out OLD acusations with STILL
NO PROOF will make the Bulls/Nba notes ratholish (Good Word).
|
| 10.2827 | | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Wed Mar 22 1995 11:52 | 8 |
| | And MJ does not bring all the controversy back, the media/noter's
| with nothing better to do then dig out OLD acusations with STILL
| NO PROOF will make the Bulls/Nba notes ratholish (Good Word).
As usual, I'm not quite sure what you are saying, but I *think* you have a
point, in that at least people are now paying attention to the NBA.
=bob=
|
| 10.2828 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | End Corporate Welfare Instead! | Wed Mar 22 1995 12:20 | 14 |
|
hey if people can slander and wonder about Reggie Lewis a few years after
his death why should the great Michael be any different? Let's see a 57,000.00
check to a coke dealer although it's a supposedly a gambling loss a man who
claims Michael owed him a million in gambling debts, which Michael never
denied just claimed the losses were less. If the guy is to be believe and
Michael has a serious gambling addiction (which luckly he can afford) it
stands to reason that he may have bet on basketball games where he could
dictate the outcome. But it's the great Michael here to save the NBA. What
a joke. The NBA is going to hell in a hand basket for one simple reason
the absolute flaunting of the rules. If they enforced the rules the way
they were written then it would become a team game again.......
mike
|
| 10.2829 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Hoshia Nah,Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai | Wed Mar 22 1995 13:58 | 2 |
| 10.2830 | I havnt seen any Facts/Evidence on MJ or Reggie | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:02 | 28 |
| Here we go again... Fine MJ Loses 1Million a Year Gambling... So lets
see he makes 30 Million so $1 out of every $30 he loses.. DAMN My wife
goes to bingo with her aunts once or twice a month and makes $0 (House
wife) man I have to get her into a clinic and Quick... During the Foot
Ball season I bet that much as well ($1 for every $30 I make) and for
the year (ON aveage) Between me and my wife we gamble around $1 for
every 40-50 dollers earned so I better join her....
Again we (NOONE) has any proof that he lost anything more then the 57K
(And by the way did they find the check or a photo copy, Man Id like
to write a 57K check and then have it not get cashed). and even if he
did lose 1Million over whatever time frame who cares, why should we
care if he enjoys betting on his Golf and going to LasVegas or Atlantic
City everyone needs to let some steem off.
And Yes he could donate $1 for every $30 he make but do you, does
anyone in here donate that much to charity every year and if we dont
should be expect someone who makes more then us too ????
I'll be the first one to say they all make too much $$$$ (Except for
the league minimum players) but if we the consumer are willing to
dish out all this money then a certain % of the profits should go to
the players and to the owner's... Im sure if you add up all the $$$
and time donated from all the NBA players to charities it would be a
very impressive figure....
mike
|
| 10.2831 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:09 | 7 |
| All I can seem to think about is the Mayor of Washington, they got him
on Video smoking Crack and they still re ellected him...
But hey thats ok we(the Media) want to spit on Reggie's Grave, why
kick a living man when you kick someone who's already down...
Go Figure
|
| 10.2832 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | End Corporate Welfare Instead! | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:24 | 11 |
|
you missed my point entirely MAir no surprise there. It isn't about how much
the Great one supposedly lost, it's about the fact that he may have a serious
gambling addiction. If he does then I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't
bet on a basketball game where he could control the outcome....Something the
NBA should definately look into but won't. If it was "Johnny last boy off the
bench" or Richard Dumas you can bet in a heartbeat there would be a full
scale investigation. But this is the NBA where Superstars walk on water,
never foul, never travel, never charge etc etc wow!!!!!!!!
mike
|
| 10.2833 | don't like the timing | OUTSRC::HEISER | Hoshia Nah,Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:26 | 5 |
| 10.2834 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | End Corporate Welfare Instead! | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:32 | 12 |
|
I was using Dumas as example here Mike. Let's say Dumas is clean and stays
clean hopefully for the rest of his life but if say two years down the line
there's rumors and inuendos about Dumas having a gambling problem, the NBA
won't hesitate to investigate.
As far as playing this year, why not? If he's clean he's got every right to
play imo. He'd even have the governement behind him if it came to that. Would
the Suns have taken him back if they weren't hurting? Probably not but hey
we know the Suns are out to buy the title anyways so I wasn't surprised.
mike
|
| 10.2835 | Bingo - can you stand the excitement? | AKOCOA::BREEN | The roar of the paint | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:38 | 9 |
| Hey I went to bingo, my wife wanted me to join her in the excitement.
Problem was it was Sunday afternoon but I was sure the minutemen could
handle Stanford without me, don't like to watch Hoyas (but want to
catch em vs heels) and finally got back to the frustrating finale of
the Moten-didIreallydothat.
I think bingo once every 10 years is enough for anybody (I was referred
to as "young man"). Payouts are fair thanks to all the competition,
hotdogs cheaper and better than fenway.
|
| 10.2836 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Kete, SS-306, On Eternal Patrol | Wed Mar 22 1995 14:53 | 21 |
| > I think bingo once every 10 years is enough for anybody (I was referred
> to as "young man"). Payouts are fair thanks to all the competition,
> hotdogs cheaper and better than fenway.
I've been to bingo before. Sheesh, I have as much luck at that as I do
going out blue fishing. Only thing is, at bingo, you can't bring a sardine
sandwhich to eat and make everyone else seasick.
I have NEVER won at bingo. I swear to you-know-who, one evening years ago
I was sitting there, on the final "cover-all", with one number left to
go. I sat through 15 friggin' numbers before some old blue-haired lady
with a cane and vericose veins hit for $750 some odd dollars.
I don't often gamble. I might play a bit of poker now and again, but that's
about it....
'Saw
|
| 10.2837 | | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Wed Mar 22 1995 15:00 | 19 |
| I need to make a correction. Ron was partly right on Michael's
contract. He was paid for last year, but was not paid a penny this
year until his return. It did have something to do with the salary
cap. I don't understand all the details, but Reinsdorf has (according
to the paper anyway) confirmed this.
While I don't know all the allegations on the gambling, a local
columnist raised a strong point. If he had gambled this large amount,
why has no one come forward to confirm this? We haven't seen any proof
and in today's world, that proof would bring big $$$!
How are we to judge if he does have a gambling problem? If he does,
how do we know he bet on basketball? Look at the Pete Rose situation.
Big name, making big bucks, all-time hits leader, etc, etc. Didn't
stop him from getting thrown out of baseball and into the slammer. One
minor difference. There was PROOF!
Spud
|
| 10.2838 | Another pool? | AKOCOA::BREEN | The roar of the paint | Wed Mar 22 1995 15:01 | 7 |
| I should've just called my old bookie (I hear he's out of jail, now)
and put the $25 odd we spent on the minutemen and then doubled up on
the 'cuse.
Any interest in a spreads pool for rest of ncaa? Don't know how to
handle Sunday games since they depend on Friday night; could get
Sat.spreads in on Friday morning.
|
| 10.2839 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | End Corporate Welfare Instead! | Wed Mar 22 1995 15:12 | 7 |
|
true enough Spud but how do we know there isn't any proof? Nobody's going
looking cause it's Michael. The guy who said he was owed a million wrote
a book but that's being ignored. why? My guess is he got paid off on
condition that he shuts his mouth from here on out.
mike
|
| 10.2840 | Rose situation was different; MLB did a number on him | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Wed Mar 22 1995 15:16 | 24 |
|
> How are we to judge if he does have a gambling problem? If he does,
> how do we know he bet on basketball? Look at the Pete Rose situation.
> Big name, making big bucks, all-time hits leader, etc, etc. Didn't
> stop him from getting thrown out of baseball and into the slammer. One
> minor difference. There was PROOF!
I'm not sure I'd use that example, Spud. Rose got tossed out of
baseball under a signed agreement stating that there was _no_ proof
of his betting on baseball (there was some hearsay evidence from
some lowlife gambling types, such as Jordan was acquainted with). And
he got tossed into the slammer for failing to report cardshow income to
the IRS; nothing at all to do with gambling. I'd say that the evidence
against Rose was stronger than any against Jordan but the biggest
difference was that Giammatti and Co. went after Rose with a vengeance
(many believe a personal vengeance, in violation of any sense of due
process). With Jordan, I believe he's clean because we've not heard
anything otherwise, but I wouldn't use any inaction and non-disclosure
of the NBA's investigation as Exhibit A, because without a doubt the
same could have happened with Rose if not for some heavy-handed
intervention.
glenn
|
| 10.2841 | Jordan was paid by the Bulls | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Wed Mar 22 1995 15:28 | 14 |
| > I need to make a correction. Ron was partly right on Michael's
> contract. He was paid for last year, but was not paid a penny this
> year until his return. It did have something to do with the salary
> cap. I don't understand all the details, but Reinsdorf has (according
> to the paper anyway) confirmed this.
Spud,
Jordan was paid a very pretty penny by the Bulls regardless of whether he
played or not. As reported several times, he made/makes/is making around
$4 mil. How much of that counts towards the cap is dependent on the
lasted contract he signed.
TTom
|
| 10.2842 | who's to argue? | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Wed Mar 22 1995 17:14 | 10 |
| Like I said, he was paid last year even though he didn't play. He was
not paid anything this year until this week, when he began receiving
payment for the full year salary of $3.85M. That's according to
Reinsdorf via the local paper. They made a point to say that the Bulls
were paying Michael for the whole year now, even though he's only
playing the final portion of the season. So, in effect, he's not
missing any payment from his contract.
Spud
|
| 10.2843 | source of info | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Wed Mar 22 1995 18:24 | 22 |
| Well your man Reinsdorf is denying what the league has posted as
salaries for this year. He seems to be saying that if'n Mike dint come
back he wouldn't a gotten anything.
Here's from the article from internet: (I've elipsed out most of it)
.
.
.
Taken from the Dallas Morning News (January 1, 1995).
These are the figures listed on the cap for this season (94-95).
.
.
.
Chicago Bulls .............. 22,053,129 [paper lists (rounded) 22,080,000]
Michael Jordan (G) .......... 3,850,000 (retired)
'Nuff said.
TTom
|
| 10.2844 | Innocent until Proven Guilty.. What A Concept | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Mar 28 1995 12:24 | 23 |
| Im glad I dont have time to get in here much, just the same ol (nothing
to do but bitch) people spewing the same ol crap...
I will stick with my AMERICANISM and say he's innocent until proven
guilty (As is OJ and Reggie). And I truely do not beleive that MJ
has enough money to bury this if he wanted too.... If there was any
proof it would be known by now......
OH WAIT... LATE BREAKING NEWS FLASH... The BASEBALL STRIKE IS A FARCE
MJ arranged it so he could slide back into Basketball without any
questioning the alleged gambling. MJ has not yet decided when the
Baseball strike will end but as soon as he does the owner's and
players will then be allowed to make an agreement. Rumor has it MJ
is busy with his comeback and Fixing the NCAA turney but will make a
decision shortly after the tourney is completed.
|
| 10.2845 | it's spreading | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Tue Mar 28 1995 18:09 | 9 |
| > Im glad I dont have time to get in here much, just the same ol (nothing
> to do but bitch) people spewing the same ol crap...
Hey they even got a discussion of Michael over there in ::SOAPBOX. I
think they're debating whether Jordan was better'n Johnson, whether his
gamgbling problems were better/worse than Magic's AIDS, and all manner of
stuff.
TTom
|
| 10.2846 | | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Thu Mar 30 1995 13:37 | 5 |
| Rumors do tend to spread when people don't keep themselves busy or are
bored with their own lives...
Spud
|
| 10.2847 | | AGNT99::CHILDS | End Corporate Welfare Instead! | Thu Mar 30 1995 14:35 | 6 |
|
Geez only 55 points against the Knicks the other night. No wonder why
Riley's getting out. Afraid perhaps that his coaching genuis isn't what
it's cracked up to be?
mike
|
| 10.2848 | Have I ever told anyone that I *hate* Pat Riley? | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Thu Mar 30 1995 14:57 | 4 |
| | Riley's getting out. Afraid perhaps that his coaching genuis isn't what
| it's cracked up to be?
Either that, or his players are stealing too much of the spotlight from him.
|
| 10.2849 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Trigger SS-237, On Eternal Patrol | Thu Mar 30 1995 15:05 | 10 |
| My main gripe against Riley is that, unlike some of the other
great coaches, he doesn't seem to want to participate in a club
that's doing rebuilding.
Clearly, the Knicks are not quite "there" yet.... Sounds like Pat
figures since he cain't get a champeenship, he's dissatisfied....
JMHO,
'Saw
|
| 10.2850 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Hoshia Nah,Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai | Thu Mar 30 1995 16:13 | 1 |
| 10.2851 | And rooting against magic should be easy | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Mar 30 1995 16:17 | 10 |
| the forgotten element of Michael's gem the other night was the fabulous
game by Ewing who brought the Knicks back. He's still my main man for
nba greatness.
The problem is rooting for him is tough without rooting also for the
knicks. I have the opposite problem with Chi-Bulls where I hate jordan
but kind of like the rest of the bulls and pippen specifically.
Now that Michael Adams is with bugs I can help ol' ttom out with them
Charlotte Hornets cept a couple of them bugs are rather obnoxious.
|
| 10.2852 | might take care of itself | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Thu Mar 30 1995 16:28 | 8 |
| > Now that Michael Adams is with bugs I can help ol' ttom out with them
> Charlotte Hornets cept a couple of them bugs are rather obnoxious.
Yeah, we hear that lasted part a lot. Mostly directed at Zo and LJ. Right
now, their degree of obnoxicity is that last of my concerns. If'n they
don't do something, they aint gonna have much to profile about.
TTom
|
| 10.2853 | Riley coaching the Celtics nexted year - my personal worst nightmare... | CTHQ::MCCULLOUGH | Potty training is hell!!! | Thu Mar 30 1995 17:01 | 3 |
| | Riles no longer has control over his players.
Yabut he still has control of his hair, and that's what's important to him.
|
| 10.2854 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon Apr 03 1995 17:55 | 5 |
| -3, TO hate jordan and like pippen really says something about you...
I wont say what, but ya gotta love pippen's ability to stay cool and
never go out of control.. The guy is a true statue of Sportsmanship
unlike Michael "The Gambler" Jordan...
mab :-)
|
| 10.2855 | Sprots hates are personal thang - got to have'em tho | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon Apr 03 1995 18:41 | 17 |
| For a minute there I wasn't catching the sarcasm as the reason I like
Pippen is he is very cool, stays within himself and conducts himself
when I see him as I'd want a pro to do. I ignore ultra-self serving
media bias as you profess to do about Jordan.
Actually I only hate Jordan because he's just too damn good and I'm
always looking for him to fail and seldom see him do it. In fact the
professional interaction of these two is a wonder as they obviously don't
hit it off personnally.
Do I buy anything that's put out by the nba media marketing machinery?
Absolutely nada. Jordan today is all about money but with him I
respect his demanding to be paid his worth not some artificial figure
that resulted from collective bargaining to reward mediocrity.
And they still haven't put the two saps picked up for killing his
father on trial yet.
|
| 10.2856 | What do you think he's worth to Chicago over the past decade | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon Apr 03 1995 19:31 | 23 |
| Ya I laugh everytime some team is stupid enough to give away the
farm on an yet another UnProven Rookie (or youngin) who hasnt proved
he can play with the big boys....
The only thing that would baffle me more then some of these contracts
would be if one of the NFL expansion teams signed Flutie to a 3-5Mil
per year contract :-)
Pippen may just be putting up with MJ for one more run and then will
demand a trade or Big $$$'s. He does not have the charisma to land
the big endorsement (Although neither do half the clowns I see in these
commercials).
Jordan never demanded things as childish as being the top X paid in the
league and I dont think he has to chase down endorsements...
Ya 30Mil a year for a guy who can mearly play Hoops is pretty outragous
but when you compare him to what some of the Flops are making its in
line :-) and his base NBA salary is definately on the Low End if you
look at what he does for his team and his organization in terms of
wins and profits...
mab
|
| 10.2857 | but he has to eat 'em | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Mon Apr 03 1995 20:06 | 12 |
| Yeah, Michalel Jordan's a freakin Mother Teresa ;-).
I guess if'n I was making $30 mil a year on endorsements, I'd take the
league minimum to actually play a sport.
However, I do find his latest commercial about MacDonald's amusing. He
has to actually eat some of his sandwich in it and it looks like it's
about all he can do to keep from bringing it back up. It's called the
McJordan McBacon or some such. Reminds me of the Sam Kinison bit about
MacDonald's going to Russia and feeding them a McSh*t sandwich.
TTom
|
| 10.2858 | Bulls going after Bugs, not Cleveland | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Mon Apr 03 1995 20:11 | 18 |
| Don't know about Scottie demanding any trades. He may ask for one, but
he has three years left on his contract. The Bulls were seriously
looking into dealing him last off-season, but that's old news. I think
the feeling now is, get a full-time rebounder (ala Horace) and they're
set to make a run next year again. Why dump a guy who's one of the
five best players and probably second best non-center player in the
league?
Believe it or not, but Mason is someone being talked about to fill the
role. I think he'd fly right in this ship, but I still don't like the
guy.
On another note, have Larry Krystowiak and Ron Harper been two of the
biggest disappointments for the Bulls? Has Krysto played in five games
even?
Spud
|
| 10.2859 | Ron Harper, it aint close | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Mon Apr 03 1995 20:43 | 11 |
| You gotta put down the move to get Harper as the single mosted stupidest
front office move of thised year. Krauss deserves all the credit for
going for a guy with bad knees at the end of his career. And for what, a
cool 2+ mil per year, all of which counts against the cap.
Mason might help on the boards but he can't play in the middle, not as a
starting center. He also has a problem with concentration and other
cerebral functions of the brain. FWIW, the Hornets have spoken favorably
on Mason as well.
TTom
|
| 10.2860 | "I forgot Shaq was Reebok and the league is Nike". | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon Apr 03 1995 20:42 | 20 |
| >I guess if'n I was making $30 mil a year on endorsements, I'd take the
>league minimum to actually play a sport.
How would you know what you'd do? Actually I think multi-millionaires
are a lot like normal humans, same vices anyway. He might have 30 mil
in the bank but he's not going to make 15 mil for the Bulls and only
get 3.75 in return - not to speak of the millions he earns for the rest
of the league.
The big problem I have is in the earlier surmise of the curring a deal
for Nike. Now you have Shaq and his Magic favored and his big Daddy is
Reebok (and a host of others).
Did the NBA guarantee anything to Nike on the court in return for their
funding Michael's return. Again, we don't think millionaires do this
but how do we know? My excuse for picking the Magic to go far in the
playoffs and having them lose early was "I forgot Shaq was Reebok and
the league is Nike".
Billtd
|
| 10.2861 | cause I do | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Mon Apr 03 1995 20:47 | 6 |
| I know exactly what I'd do.
Give me $30 mil and you'd never have to hear from me agin ;-). Hail, I'll
get off the net for $3 mil. After taxes, natch.
TTom
|
| 10.2862 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | bumhiem, lappas...idiots | Tue Apr 04 1995 13:34 | 10 |
| >Mason might help on the boards but he can't play in the middle, not as a
>starting center. He also has a problem with concentration and other
>cerebral functions of the brain. FWIW, the Hornets have spoken favorably
>on Mason as well.
Anthony Mason will be one of the most sought-after FAs this off-season.
There aren't many players as versatile, and none as versatile with his
size. He can play 3 different defensive positions, WELL. He rebounds
with the best of them, scores very well in the low post, and can handle
the ball like a guard.
|
| 10.2863 | how 'bout the Sonics? | HBAHBA::HAAS | recurring recusancy | Tue Apr 04 1995 13:43 | 12 |
| I'm a big fan of Mason's play, when he's playing.
Obviously, he and Riley just caint get along. It'll be curious to see who
he goes to. One team that might be interesting would be the Sonics. They
seem to be able to play with all manner of head cases and still get it
done, notwithstanding their early exit lasted year.
The Hornets have very limited money to go after free agents having
already committed about $4 mil to the Chief and Michael Adams. I don't
know if all that's guaranteed.
TTom
|
| 10.2864 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Tue Apr 04 1995 15:37 | 2 |
| 10.2865 | | AGNT99::CHILDS | End Corporate Welfare Instead! | Tue Apr 04 1995 15:54 | 8 |
|
> If he's a cancer with Riley, why would other teams want him? He'd be
> perfect for Detroit.
probably cause it's a bum rap. Riley's so full of himself, mother Theresa
would probably be a cancer on the Knicks as well.
mike
|
| 10.2866 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Tue Apr 04 1995 17:55 | 2 |
| 10.2867 | people do change | USCTR1::GARBARINO | bumhiem, lappas...idiots | Tue Apr 04 1995 18:18 | 5 |
| > Ewing, Oakley, and even that headcase Starks appear to do alright with
> Riles.
I've seen no situations in which Starks has been a 'headcase' this
season.
|
| 10.2868 | bestest and worstest | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue Apr 11 1995 17:35 | 27 |
| Some of the bestest and worstest of the NBA (through Sunday)
Offensive Points Best - Phoenix, 111.1/game
Worst - Cleveland, 90.9/game
Defensive Points Best - Cleveland, 90.1/game
Worst - Golden State, 110.7/game
Offensive FG% Best - Utah, .515
Worst - New Jersey, .437
Defensive FG% Best - New York, .435
Worst - Milwaukee & LA Clippers, .494
Offensive Turnovers Best - Phoenix, 14.1/game
Worst - Golden State, 17.9/game
Defensive Turnovers Best - LA Clippers & Chicago, 18.3/game
Worst - New Jersey, 13.4/game
Score less than 100 Best - Phoenix, 12 games
Worst - Cleveland, 59 games
Hold to less than 100 Best - Cleveland, 56 games
Worst - Golden State, 11 games
TTom
|
| 10.2869 | too funny | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Tue Apr 11 1995 17:40 | 2 |
| 10.2870 | Golden State not looking good, too | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue Apr 11 1995 17:52 | 0 |
| 10.2871 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue Apr 11 1995 18:15 | 10 |
|
> lots of Phoenix and Cleveland in that list. Too bad most of
> Cleveland's are bad.
How do you get that, Mike? I see two negatives (lowest average score
and most games held under 100) and two positives (lowest average
points allowed and most times opponent held under 100). Or is this
a new definition of "most" that I was not aware of?
Joe
|
| 10.2872 | bestest ? | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Wed Apr 12 1995 15:53 | 12 |
| USA Today is running a series of a sort on who's who among the best, most
valuable, etc.
Yesterday they had the Coaches of the Year candidates. These were Mike
Fratello - Cleveland, Del Harris - Lakers, Bob Hill - Spurs, Dick Motta -
Mavericks.
Today is the MVP race. Listed as leaders were David Robinson - Spurs and
Shaq - Magic. Also considered in the race, Hakeem - Rockets, Patrick
Ewing - Knicks, Karl Malone - Jazz, and Sir Chuck - Suns.
TTom
|
| 10.2873 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Apr 13 1995 12:53 | 8 |
| 10.2874 | ha, too funny | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Thu Apr 13 1995 15:48 | 2 |
| 10.2875 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Apr 13 1995 17:17 | 3 |
| 10.2876 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Thu Apr 13 1995 17:37 | 1 |
| 10.2877 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Apr 13 1995 19:21 | 6 |
| 10.2878 | you're slipping Groaner | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Thu Apr 13 1995 20:08 | 1 |
| 10.2879 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Apr 13 1995 20:45 | 4 |
| 10.2880 | Cleveland will be gone in round 1 | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Thu Apr 13 1995 21:13 | 1 |
| 10.2881 | Not my worst note ever but B+ Babbling | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri Apr 14 1995 11:43 | 22 |
| Come on Heiser, at the start of the year there's 5 or 6 team with a
shot at it, and that # might be on the high side. Even with Jordan
back Id say the east is Orl/Ny/Ind (in that order) and the west is
Pho/Sea/Hou whichever one of these teams doesnt make the conference
finals will be the Prc Chokeartist in charge of Choking the one's that
dont make the finals are just SR Chokeartist (Prc=Principle).
Phoenix has all the talant money can but but no chemistry/heart to go
along with it, they just dont have the chemistry to win it all (Neither
does chicago and I dont think either team will get it ALL worked out in
the next 2 weeks).
Of course the BIG difference there is that Chicago already has 3rings
in the past 4 years so not a big deal if they dont win it all. Phoenix
and NY are on the verge of retirement (In massive quantities :-)) so
this may actualy be both of there last shots with there BigName players
(Ewing/Barkley). Seattle/Ind/Orlando will both be back in the hunt the
next few years...
So Id say the biggest Chokers will be if NY/Pho dont get there...
MairBabblingBrooks
|
| 10.2882 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Apr 14 1995 11:48 | 7 |
| 10.2883 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | next year in Jerusalem! | Fri Apr 14 1995 16:29 | 6 |
| 10.2884 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Apr 14 1995 17:15 | 4 |
| 10.2885 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Apr 14 1995 18:09 | 13 |
| I would think San Antonio is the odds on favorite with Seattle and Utah
next. Phoenix big asset is the Barkley mega-star phenomenom; some guys
are really protected but it seems that's furthur down the line. The
suns may get beat in the first round.
And as usual there's the KJ factor and I can't honestly say where
Johnson's head it but KJ took them to 6 vs Bulls in '93.
but we should all be talking about the race of the year between
Sacremento and Denver who both really want the 8th spot. Denver would
have to go thru SA and that would be tough but they could go all the
way. I don't know if Pack would help or not right now but Rauf is
injured.
|
| 10.2886 | Bulls vs Charlotte I think I'll take a RoadTrip | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Apr 18 1995 15:59 | 26 |
| Orlando and NY dont look all that awsome lately, maybe just the FACT
that Jordan's back is enough to make the Knicks think NOT AGAIN (IE
see Cleveland early 90's)... Orlando might be getting early Butterflies
The east is up for grabs, I think its Orlando's to lose they should win
the east but they are prime for an upset. New York is done, there
going no where, they should be thanking there lucky stars that they
wont meet chicago anytime earlier then the Eastern Finals... The 2nd
rnd should be intresting I still dont see any road teams (Other then
Chicago) having a shot in the east (rnd 1).
The west is in disarray who the hell is the best team in the west, can
we after all weve seen of SA take them seriously ? What happened to the
Rockets, I dont here there name mentioned in them same sentence as The
CHamps ? Seattle still has coaching and personality problems (Too
Young) and Phoenix has Barkley, like ewing maybe Charles and a
championship are not meant too be...
The team I feel the worst for, GS, once again injury proned and if they
stay in the 5th seed they'll end up picking 8th or 9th at least 1 ping
pong ball will be a surprise so they will slip behind the expansion
teams
in the draft...
See ya later, this week will just finish off the final matchups, Denver
will t ake the 8th seed.
|
| 10.2887 | Denver misses Rauf | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 18 1995 16:18 | 5 |
| Denver had a tough loss vs SA on Sunday, pushing it to OT but now
having the firepower to survive. They really missed Abdul-Rauf down
the stretch, they need him for Tuesday night. Of course if they feel
they can get #8 they may want to rest him and avoid not having him in
final.
|
| 10.2888 | just as I predicted in CELTICS | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue Apr 18 1995 18:11 | 2 |
| 10.2889 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue Apr 18 1995 18:13 | 2 |
| 10.2890 | Not a fair assessment | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Tue Apr 18 1995 18:38 | 13 |
| >> MAir, Houston's problem is that they traded Thorpe for Drexler.
>> Both teams have been below .500 since the trade.
Gee, Houston's problems wouldn't have anything to do with the
fact that Robert Horry / Hakeem Olujuwon / Vernon Maxwell and
Carl Herrara have all missed a bunch of games since the trade??
You cannot fairly judge the trade for Houston since they haven't
fielded their whole team more than once or twice since the trade.
Lets see what they do in the playoffs ...
Vinny
|
| 10.2891 | No Denver won't be playing Suns in round 1 | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 18 1995 19:40 | 5 |
| Well beating San Antonio is not easy for any team in either conference
and,clown though he be, Rodman makes them tough. I'm sure if Denver
had a preference for the second round it would be Phoenix.
If Rauf is healthy tonight Denver's chances can be better gauged.
|
| 10.2892 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue Apr 18 1995 22:27 | 1 |
| 10.2893 | They have what 59wins with 3 games to go... | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed Apr 19 1995 11:57 | 6 |
| Will they see the first round, they lost last night, what is there
position in the west now ?
San Antonio must have clinced the #1 seed by now ?
MairB
|
| 10.2894 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Wed Apr 19 1995 12:05 | 6 |
|
Sacvramento lost too. It looks like that game Sunday is for all the
8th seeded marbles.
Chap
|
| 10.2895 | just another member of the All-Childs team | CNTROL::CHILDS | | Wed Apr 19 1995 12:18 | 8 |
|
love him or hate him, Rodman is worth the price of admission. I think
he did a nice job of welcoming Jalen Rose to the league last night...
hahaha
mike
|
| 10.2896 | Rodman's selfishness makes him even better | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Apr 19 1995 13:07 | 10 |
| Mikey,
I have to go along with you, he has to be one of the very top
players in the league in terms of value. Funny with all the flack his
style of play is extremely team oriented and fundementally sound
(witness some of his passes). Avery had a nice game.
Denver needs Rauf bad, if they play for the playoffs I'd suppose
they'll tape him up and shoot him up and wheel him out there. But I
doubt they'll really have any problem with Sacremento, they're just not
strong enough for SA sans Rauf.
|
| 10.2897 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Apr 19 1995 13:15 | 5 |
| > Sacvramento lost too. It looks like that game Sunday is for all the
> 8th seeded marbles.
and one ping-pong ball
|
| 10.2898 | injuries are part of the game | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed Apr 19 1995 15:04 | 6 |
| 10.2899 | Trade not the problem | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Wed Apr 19 1995 15:48 | 12 |
| >> Re. Houston
>> Phoenix and Cleveland don't get any slack for all their injuries, why
>> should they?
I don't think they should be given slack .. not trying to cover up
thier losses .. but, its your contention that they are losing because
of the trade .. its my contention that they are losing because of the
injuries, not the trade .. Drexler has provided them with a consistent
second scoring option, something they didn't have before the trade ..
Vinny
|
| 10.2900 | Mike just doesn't want to acknowledge me on Rauf-YET | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Apr 19 1995 16:05 | 19 |
| Vinny, Mike thinks I'm making excuses for my adopted Nuggets eg Rauf
injured = Nuggets not at best. Actually the excuses are about over,
most of the nuggests are back inluding Ellis, unfortunately Raug and
Pack are both out.
It was clear that without Rauf and without Pack their scoring punch was
left to poor Stith who's not the old 50s Bonaventure Stith but a nice
player, just not enough. Williams and Motumbo are excellent but not
scorers which leaves Reggie Williams, another nice player.
Rauf nee Jackson could score 30+ per night but the Nuggets really need
the 20 he's been giving them since Pack's been out and his presence to
open the door for the rest.
Pack can't be an excuse because his being out gave the minutes to
Rauf,Stith and Rose and Denver has closed about 10 games in the loss
column and almost made .500. And I got grief about Rauf when I
predicted blindly that if Denver would only give him the minutes they'd
be much improved which they did and they have.
|
| 10.2901 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed Apr 19 1995 17:21 | 2 |
| 10.2902 | The real season starts next week | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Wed Apr 19 1995 17:47 | 12 |
| >> Look at the reason why Houston has been losing though. Their interior
>> defense is worse and they're getting severely outrebounded.
And Hakeem missing about 8 or 9 games didn't contribute to those
stats????
It may be a guess, but I don't think the starting five that Houston
envisioned after the trade (Hakeem/Horry/Drexler/Smith/Maxwell or
Herrera) has played more than two games together .. tough to get
anything going with that kind of lineup change ..
Vinny
|
| 10.2903 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Wed Apr 19 1995 19:25 | 20 |
| > love him or hate him, Rodman is worth the price of admission. I think
> he did a nice job of welcoming Jalen Rose to the league last night...
Yea, I guess you were cheering when scumbag Rodman purposely walked
on Rose after he took a hard fall and was lying on the ground. I guess
you also cheered when he threw Brian Stith to the floor and got ejected
from the game.
I couldn't believe the San Antonio fans cheering Rodman after he got
ejected from last night's game. What exactly are they cheering for ?
Would they love it even more if poked someone's eye out or if he stabbed
someone ? San Antonio has players who deserved a lot of cheering like
Robinson and the other guy last night who lead the team in scoring.
But cheering violence and humiliating behavior makes me sick. Before
last night's game, I had no good or bad impressions of the San Antonio
faithful. Now I have a very strong impression and it aint good.
If this what the NBA is going to provide for entertainment, count me out.
Keith
|
| 10.2904 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Apr 19 1995 19:48 | 7 |
| > I couldn't believe the San Antonio fans cheering Rodman after he got
> ejected from last night's game. What exactly are they cheering for ?
> If this what the NBA is going to provide for entertainment, count me out.
If the Knicks did this, the "thugs" labels would be flying.
|
| 10.2905 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed Apr 19 1995 19:57 | 3 |
| 10.2906 | Naughty, naughty Dennis | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Apr 19 1995 20:04 | 16 |
| Both games were very physical and Rodman plays physical and opponents
play very physical with him. He seemed to have something going with
Rose from Sunday.
His ejection must have been around the 3 minute mark when I opened my
book (sequel to Holy Blood Holy Grail). Boston had a player like him
and his number is up on the rafters - Jim Loscutoff (18).
If I were Denver of any team I'd use the same tactics to try to get
Rodman thrown out of the game, his presence is going to make it very
difficult to beat SA. I watched a lot of the 96 minutes of SA=Denver
and overall Rodman plays a fundementally sound, clean game and if he
had (or chose to use) an offensive game he'd be mvp caliber.
I think I saw the push (a push) and didn't think a lot of it since
there's so much contact going on.
|
| 10.2907 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Apr 19 1995 20:24 | 9 |
| > The Knicks *DO* this, that's how they got the label in the first place.
When was the last time you saw a Knicks' game ? They've played very clean
basketball this year. They get their T's like everyone else, but I don't
remember a cheap-shot elbow or flagrant foul.
The NBA cracked down on their style of play with the new rules, and by
enforcing the old ones, and the Knicks have adjusted and will win the
same # of games they won last year.
|
| 10.2908 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed Apr 19 1995 21:58 | 2 |
| 10.2909 | Was that hockey or basketball | MARIN::DODGE | | Wed Apr 19 1995 22:02 | 12 |
| I don't condone Rodman's cheap shots or bad sportsmanship, but while
reading the replies it did occur to me that it was pretty tame behavior
compared to the goons that play hockey. Maybe those fans in San
Antonio are really just hockey fans looking for a little release.
How long do you think it will be before the NBA bans tatoos. Rodman
looks like a punk rocker / Hells Angel. He really looks out of place
in an NBA game. Hopefully most players are smart enough to avoid this
type of behavior. Now that I think about it the NBA couldn't possibly
ban tatoos because Shaq has a Superman S tatoo on his arm.
|
| 10.2910 | They're not the only one's, but... | POBOX::WIERSBECK | | Thu Apr 20 1995 12:34 | 10 |
| How about last Sunday, Joe? I like Patrick Ewing and think he's
usually a pretty classy player, but his shot to Perdue's nose (where he
wears the protective mask) seemed rather flagrant.
The Knicks have certainly earned their reputation and don't seem too
eager to shed the bad boy image. Otherwise, guys like Mason wouldn't
be getting T's on a regular basis.
Spud
|
| 10.2911 | He's intresting to say the least | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu Apr 20 1995 12:43 | 11 |
| Dont down San Antonio for rodman's behavior he got that and developed
it while playing for the Original Thugs (Detroit Pistons). New York is
just a Detroitwannabe team hoping to thug there way to a few
championships, and if they had a Center the Caliber of Lambeir they
would :-)
Rodman wont hurt this team, he can only help, and if they can put him
on the opponents #1 Offensive man and take him out of his game then SA
will win the west.
MaB
|
| 10.2912 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Apr 20 1995 13:23 | 14 |
| > New York is
> just a Detroitwannabe team hoping to thug there way to a few
> championships,
Now with your busy schedule MaB, how would you know what the Knicks are
doing in games this year ???? The FACTS are they are NOT cheap-shotting
and it shows in the lack of flagrant and intentional fouls called on them.
> Rodman wont hurt this team, he can only help, and if they can put him
> on the opponents #1 Offensive man and take him out of his game then SA
> will win the west.
So we now know that SA is your team in the West this year ?
|
| 10.2913 | NY has been a Detroitwannabe team for about 5 years | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu Apr 20 1995 15:55 | 13 |
| Actualy I still prefer Seattle over San Antonio but I dont think
Seattle has the BRAINS to win it all. They have mucho talent but
no coach and no TEAM. I only get to see the west coast teams a
few times a year, and mostly just on ESPN Highlight shows. I just
have No Confidence in seattle as being a player in the west. If SA
or Pho dont represent the west I'll be very, very surprised.
Hey Ive seen 2 Knicks games (Guess which ones :-)..) and this past
sunday's game Jordan was wrapped up good and hard by Smith ?
But the best team won :-)
mab
|
| 10.2914 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Apr 20 1995 20:50 | 11 |
| The Rodman/Robinson pizza comercial is cute and everything but I still think
it's in very bad taste. Here we have a guy who leads the NBA in violence,
technicals and ejections. And because of those bad qualities, not his
basketball skills(which are still very good), he has made a big name for
himself. Pizza Hut thens pays him big bucks to sell pizza to teenagers
and the rest of the public. There's a danger here because it teaches
some kids that violence and intimidation pays dividends. Some will
mimic his behavior out in the streets and because of that, some of us
may become just another crime statistic.
Keith
|
| 10.2915 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | | Thu Apr 20 1995 20:53 | 7 |
|
Sorry Keith but if parents taught their kids right from wrong from the
get-go we wouldn't have to worry about it. It's not ROdman's fault
if some kids imitate him but the fault of the parents who didn't teach
their kids any better imo.........
mike
|
| 10.2916 | Rodman has 15 T's and no flagrants | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu Apr 20 1995 20:55 | 52 |
| 10.2917 | Bingo Mike Heiser, you're my hero | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Apr 20 1995 21:05 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.2918 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Apr 20 1995 21:19 | 5 |
| You're right Mike, strong family support is the best way to raise a kid and
keep him outta trouble. But when there's a problem or temptation, the Rodman
image just adds fuel to the fire.
Keith
|
| 10.2919 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu Apr 20 1995 21:20 | 5 |
| 10.2920 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Apr 20 1995 21:32 | 19 |
| I don't always follow the nba that closely and only know a little about
Rodman's alleged behavior. I do know he quarreled with his own
management and missed practice etc and recall his remark about Bird
which was dumb.
But I did watch the two Denver-SA games because I got interested in
Denver because of Rauf and Rauf because of a game vs Celtics in which I
was very impressed with his raw talent (partly because of the opponent
at the time?).
So actually watching Rodman and not really having a case for or against
him I personally thought he had a pretty good game with excellent
fundementals. Besides not participating in the offense except for
getting the break going and running the lanes and passing very well
(you'd think by now everyone would know he's going to pass) his obvious
weakness is his emotions. And the rest of the nba knows it too and
will do their darndest to get him going and off his game.
You can bet Barkley if the time comes will be baiting him unmercifully.
|
| 10.2921 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu Apr 20 1995 21:53 | 8 |
| 10.2922 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Snook SS-279, On Eternal Patrol | Fri Apr 21 1995 12:34 | 10 |
| I for one got a kick out of the juxtaposition of the images of the Admiral
and Rodman. It was funny hearing Robinson to tell him to, in effect,
loosen up a bit....
BTW, I tried one of them there stuffed crust pizzas the other night.
They ain't too bad.....
'Saw
|
| 10.2923 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 21 1995 13:33 | 10 |
| > Sorry Keith but if parents taught their kids right from wrong from the
**
BIG "IF" Mike, and one that probably isn't happening for a VERY LARGE %
of the kids today (probably shockingly large). With the large # of
parents who don't know right from wrong, broken homes, etc, I have
very little faith in American 'parenting' today.
With this missing, guys like Rodman cannot provide ANYTHING good for
kids to follow (ie: only bad).
|
| 10.2924 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 21 1995 13:36 | 13 |
| > -< Rodman has 15 T's and no flagrants >-
So you're saying it was OK that he stepped on the Denver player while
he was on his back, 'cause the refs didn't give him a flagrant foul ?
> Team Player Technicals Team Flagrant Fouls
> 3 PhoenixSuns 61 3 NYKnicks 8
How many flagrant fouls did the Knicks have last year ? I'll bet it was
more than 8. And now 2 teams have 50% more flagrant fouls than these
criminals from NYC.
|
| 10.2925 | without Barkley Phoenix is a different story | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri Apr 21 1995 15:44 | 14 |
| 10.2926 | Ive never been in soapbox, if its worse then in here no thank you | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri Apr 21 1995 16:57 | 35 |
| ya so luckily theyve been giving T's instead of calling them Flagrants
I thought it was amusing that NY Lead in the T's and if you combine
T's and Flagrants NY is the winner.
Family values and traditions are going down hill for many reasons, My
family was effected by this when My sister fell in with the wrong
crowd. My father's attempts to parant here were construed by the
courts as abuse (No physical mind you) and after assigning a Social
Worker to pay surprise visits for a few months they didnt push any
futher, but in the mean time THE COURTS ALLOWED HER TO QUIT SCHOOL at
the age of 14 ??? My parents and everyone were shocked on how or why
the court's would ever rule such a stupid thing, but never the less
they did and she will never be the same, you cannot replace the skills
emotional, social etc that come with your schooling. I know they have
to watch for abuse to protect the children but they basically took away
parents rights to discipline your kids, when yelling at your kid too
much can be determined as ABUSE In the court things are way out of
control.
The other major player imho is double working families, as the years
have passed the % of double working families has gone up, along with
Drop out rates, teenage pregnency, youth crimes etc, etc, etc, On One
raises a child as good as there own parents. As long as my kids are
young I will do whatever it takes to keep my wife raising my kids
rather then a stranger, again this is MHO.
Once again something that will never get better without radical change
Hey lets start another rathole, what do people think about a flat Tax
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Back to sports
I NEED THE LATE Basketball SCORE's from last night ?????????
|
| 10.2927 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri Apr 21 1995 17:40 | 1 |
| 10.2928 | Dog fight for the 8th spot in West too | BUMP::JSRINIVASAN | | Fri Apr 21 1995 18:05 | 4 |
| And Kings also won yesterday. They are now one game behind Nuggets.
Srini
|
| 10.2929 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri Apr 21 1995 18:20 | 17 |
| Lakers Portland, not that it matters much just looking at the
seedings, Sacremento must be bummed. More then likely they dont
have enough to beat Seattle tonight so the season finaly will end
up being pointless... bummer.
Pretty good though on the last day of the season you could potentially
have Seattle Playing Phoenix for the Pacific Division and Denver VS
Sacramento for the 8th and final playoffs spot, good job by the
schedule makers :-)
Say what you want but the Central Division finished with 5 teams at or
above .500 the 2 teams that didnt make it Milwaukee/Detroit will both
be in the hunt next year...
Damn the NBA Wrapping up and the NFL Draft on the same weekend... And
I'll be working on the bathroom all day.. Im Bummed
mab
|
| 10.2930 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 21 1995 18:20 | 3 |
| > Spurs beat Dallas by 1 point.
Only 1 ? Weren't they up by 12-or-so in the 4th ?
|
| 10.2931 | Most Improved Player - Sean Elliot? | BUMP::JSRINIVASAN | | Fri Apr 21 1995 19:28 | 11 |
|
Re:-1
They were up by 12 some time in the first half. When I saw it in the
Headline News, Mavs were leading by 6 points in the 4 th qtr. Sean
Elliot was fouled when 0.5 seconds remaing in the fourth and Spurs
were down by a point at that time. He sank in both the free throws.
Imagine what would have happened, had Shaq been there instead of
Elliot?
Srini
|
| 10.2932 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri Apr 21 1995 20:46 | 3 |
| 10.2933 | Nice game by Greg Grant for Denver last night | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Mon Apr 24 1995 13:26 | 7 |
| Denver, without Pack, Mahmoud, and Tom Hammonds, beat Sacramento rather
easily last night to secure the 8th and final playoff spot. If they
had Pack, Mahmoud, and a healthy Laphonso Ellis, they would make their
first round series with San Antonio intersting. It looks like it will
be three and out for them now.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2934 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Mon Apr 24 1995 16:12 | 5 |
| 10.2935 | playoff contest? | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Mon Apr 24 1995 18:08 | 5 |
| Hey, aint it time for another contest?
Don't we start guessing who's gonna win it all?
TTom
|
| 10.2936 | exit | CNTROL::CHILDS | | Mon Apr 24 1995 18:41 | 4 |
|
I ran it last year, how about someone else take a turn????
mike
|
| 10.2937 | the matchups | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Mon Apr 24 1995 19:18 | 26 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |----------------
|----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | |
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- | |
|---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |---------------- |
|---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |---------------- |
|----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2938 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Mon Apr 24 1995 19:56 | 27 |
| 10.2939 | KOD par excellence! | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Mon Apr 24 1995 20:35 | 0 |
| 10.2940 | upset city | CNTROL::CHILDS | | Tue Apr 25 1995 12:04 | 26 |
|
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |--Boston--------
|--Charlotte-----
(4) Charlotte |--Charlotte----- |
(5) Chicago | |
|--Indiana-------
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |--Indiana------- | |
|--Indiana------- |
(3) New York/2* |--Cleveland----- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|--Indiana----
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |--San Antonio--- |
|--San Antonio--- |
(4) Seattle |--Lakers-------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|--Utah---------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |--Portland------ |
|--Utah----------
(3) Utah (2*) |--Utah----------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2941 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue Apr 25 1995 12:38 | 25 |
|
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |--Boston--------
|--Boston--------
(4) Charlotte |--Charlotte----- |
(5) Chicago | |
|--Cleveland-----
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |--Indiana------- | |
|--Cleveland----- |
(3) New York/2* |--Cleveland----- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|--Cleveland--
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |--San Antonio--- |
|--San Antonio--- |
(4) Seattle |--Seattle------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|--San Antonio--
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |--Portland------ |
|--Utah----------
(3) Utah (2*) |--Utah----------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2942 | no way the Suns win | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue Apr 25 1995 14:00 | 25 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando | Orlando
(8) Boston |---------------- Orlando
Chicago |----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | | Indiana
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* | Indiana | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- Indiana | |
New York |---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | | Phoenix
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | San Antonio |
(8) Denver |---------------- San Antonio |
Seattle |---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | Phoenix |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| Phoenix |
(7) Portland |---------------- Phoenix |
Utah |----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2943 | ABAers | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Tue Apr 25 1995 14:21 | 26 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando | Orlando
(8) Boston |---------------- Chicago
Chicago |----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | | Indiana
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* | Indiana | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- Indiana | |
New York |---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | | San Antonio
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | San Antonio |
(8) Denver |---------------- San Antonio |
Seattle |---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | San Antonio |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| Phoenix |
(7) Portland |---------------- Houston |
Houston |----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2944 | | FORTY2::FOWLERM | Grimsby Liberation Front | Tue Apr 25 1995 14:59 | 26 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando | Orlando
(8) Boston |---------------- Chicago
|----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | Chicago | Chicago
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* | Indiana | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- Indiana | |
|---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | New York | Phoenix
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | San Antonio |
(8) Denver |---------------- San Antonio |
|---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | Seattle | |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| Phoenix | Phoenix
(7) Portland |---------------- |
|----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |---------------- Phoenix
(6) Houston | Utah
|
| 10.2945 | Stat winners | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue Apr 25 1995 15:03 | 50 |
| Final NBA Stats:
Scoring:
O'Neal, Orlando 29.3
Olajwon, Houston 27.9
Robinson, San Antonio 27.6
Malone, Utah 26.7
Jackson, Dallas 25.7
Rebounding:
Rodman, San Antonio 16.8
Mutombo, Denver 12.6
O'Neal, Orlando 11.4
Barkley, Phoenix 11.1
Ewing, New York 11.0
Assists:
Stockton, Utah 12.3
Anderson, New Jersey 9.4
Hardaway, Golden State 9.3
Strickland, Portland 8.8
Bogues, Charlotte 8.7
Feild Goal Percentage:
Gatling, Golden State .633
O'Neal, Orlando .583
Grant, Orlando .567
Thorpe, Portland .565
D.Davis, Indiana .563
Free Throw Percentage:
Webb, Sacramento .934
Price, Cleveland .914
Barros, Philadelphia .899
Miller, Indiana .897
Bogues, Charlotte .889
Three Point Percentage:
Kerr, Chicago .524
Schrempf, Seattle .514
Barros, Philadelphia .462
Davis, New York .455
Stockton, Utah .449
Steals:
Pippen, Chicago 2.9
Blaylock, Atlanta 2.5
Payton, Seattle 2.5
Stockton, Utah 2.4
McMillan, Seattle 2.1
|
| 10.2946 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue Apr 25 1995 15:09 | 9 |
| >(2) Indiana/3* | | |
>(7) Atlanta |--Indiana------- | |
> |--Indiana------- |
>(3) New York/2*|--Cleveland----- |
>(6) Cleveland | |
So that's how you're getting around Indiana's problem with the Knicks,
eh MikeC ?
|
| 10.2947 | in the NBA, form follows function.... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue Apr 25 1995 15:12 | 26 |
| Initially I just couldn't enter my Knicks' pick, but with all the anti-Knicks
throwing them out in the 1st or 2nd round, I have to...
(1) Orlando | Orlando
(8) Boston |---------------- Chicago
Chicago |----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | | New York
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* | Indiana | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- New York | |
New York |---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | | New York
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | San Antonio |
(8) Denver |---------------- San Antonio |
Lakers |---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | San Antonio |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| Phoenix |
(7) Portland |---------------- Utah |
Utah |----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2948 | Nike over Reebok then let'em play | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Apr 25 1995 15:42 | 24 |
| (1) Orlando |Orlando
(8) Boston |---------------- Chicago
Chicago |----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | | New York
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* |Atlanta | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- New York | |
New York |---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | | New York
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | San Antonio |
(8) Denver |----------------Seattle |
Seattle |---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | |Utah |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| Phoenix |
(7) Portland |---------------- Utah |
Utah |----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2949 | Here goes nuttin | SHRMSG::GALVIN | knockemdownspinemrounheygobowling | Tue Apr 25 1995 15:44 | 27 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |-----Orlando----
|----Orlando-----
(4) Charlotte |---Charlotte---- |
(5) Chicago | |
|----Orlando-----
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |----Indiana----- | |
|----New York---- |
(3) New York/2* |----New York---- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|-----Phoenix---
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |---San Anton---- |
|---LA LAkers---- |
(4) Seattle |----LA LAkers--- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|----Phoenix-----
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |---Phoenix------ |
|-----Phoenix----
(3) Utah (2*) |---Houston------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2950 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:10 | 4 |
| I have one question, the entry with Cleveland winning it all was
just a little joke right :-)
Id say Denver and Boston have a much better chance then cleveland
|
| 10.2951 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:13 | 5 |
| 10.2952 | Had to KOD myself :-) Michael VS The Admiral The Fix Is In | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:13 | 9 |
| Orlando
Chicago Chicago
Indiana
New York New York Chicago
BULLS TAKE #4 :-)
SanAntonio
Seattle San Antonio
Phoenix
LaLakers Phoenix San Antonio
|
| 10.2953 | will they make the finals? | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:21 | 4 |
| I'd be interested in seeing what the odds might be out there in Vegas
land for the Bulls making the finals.
TTom
|
| 10.2954 | Mine | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:27 | 27 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |-----Orlando----
|----Orlando-----
(4) Charlotte |---Charlotte---- |
(5) Chicago | |
|----New York---
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |----Indiana----- | |
|----New York---- |
(3) New York/2* |----New York---- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|-New York---
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |---San Anton---- |
|---San Antonio-- |
(4) Seattle |----LA LAkers--- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|----San Antonio-
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |---Phoenix------ |
|-----Utah------
(3) Utah (2*) |---Utah---------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2955 | all in favor | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:27 | 6 |
| Chappy,
How bout managing this here contest? I got some disk space you can use
if'n you need it ;-)
TTom
|
| 10.2956 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:28 | 4 |
|
Not!
|
| 10.2957 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:29 | 4 |
|
I still owe Saw a Yankee Shirt!!! :-)
|
| 10.2958 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue Apr 25 1995 18:38 | 15 |
|
> I have one question, the entry with Cleveland winning it all was
> just a little joke right :-)
No moreso than my NCAA entry w/ Penn winning it all.
I have a very simple rule about such contests - never pick
against your team. My team of choice is the Cavaliers; therefore
I picked them to win it all. Beyond that I either go with the
teams I prefer (as in this case) or the teams I actually think
will win (as I did in the POOL94 contest).
There's a good reason I don't go to Vegas with my picks... B^)
Joe
|
| 10.2959 | Rodman eats Champion Pizza | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Youngest one's walking - OH NO! | Tue Apr 25 1995 19:10 | 29 |
|
Playoffs
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |--Orlando------
|---Chicago------
(4) Charlotte |--Chicago------ |
(5) Chicago | |
|------NY--------
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |--Indiana-- --- | |
|-----NY--------- |
(3) New York/2* |--NY------------ |
(6) Cleveland | |
|------SA------
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |----SA---------- |
|------SA-------- |
(4) Seattle |----Seat-------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|-----SA---------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |----Pho--------- |
|-----Pho--------
(3) Utah (2*) |----Ut---------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2960 | my picks | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Tue Apr 25 1995 19:13 | 27 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |-----Orlando----
|----Orlando-----
(4) Charlotte |---Charlotte---- |
(5) Chicago | |
|----Orlando---
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |----Indiana----- | |
|----Indiana---- |
(3) New York/2* |----New York---- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|-San Antonio
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |---San Antonio- |
|---San Antonio-- |
(4) Seattle |----Seattle---
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|----San Antonio-
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |---Phoenix------ |
|-----Utah------
(3) Utah (2*) |---Utah---------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2961 | Sir Charles gets his ring | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue Apr 25 1995 19:15 | 23 |
| 10.2962 | I picked the Spurs in the fall; no reason to change now | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Tue Apr 25 1995 19:52 | 27 |
|
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |-Orlando--------
|-Chicago--------
(4) Charlotte |-Chicago-------- |
(5) Chicago | |
|-Chicago--------
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |-Indiana-------- | |
|-Cleveland------ |
(3) New York/2* |-Cleveland------ |
(6) Cleveland | |
|-San Antonio-
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |-San Antonio---- |
|-San Antonio---- |
(4) Seattle |-LA Lakers------ | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|-San Antonio----
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |-Portland------- |
|-Houston--------
(3) Utah (2*) |-Houston--------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2963 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Apr 25 1995 20:02 | 5 |
| I think people who feel Orlando the #1 seed in the east will meet
SanAntonio the #1 seed in the west in the finals and SanAntonio the
#1 record will win it all shouldnt bother entering a note :-)
Just picking on a few
|
| 10.2964 | not to be confused with the 'objective_analyst' | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue Apr 25 1995 20:04 | 10 |
| >(3) New York/2*|-Cleveland------
>(6) Cleveland |
Those Knicks can't do anything to impress you, can they Nazz.
They closed The Gahden with a 'W' (just as they closed The Stadium
last year), 'bert lit it up from 3-pt-land (is he going to miss
that place or what ?), and Charles Smith had his best day as
a Knick. All this with Ewing sitting next to you at the scorer's
table, and they still can't even get you to pick them over a Mash-unit
Cleveland team.
|
| 10.2965 | NBA Playoffs Pool via the WWW | JEREMY::RON | | Wed Apr 26 1995 07:25 | 7 |
|
There's an internet Playoffs pool at :
http://www.hal.com/~markg/NBA/playoffs.html
/ Roni .
|
| 10.2966 | Can't miss a contest... | SHARE::DERRY | Color me impressed... | Wed Apr 26 1995 12:01 | 23 |
| (1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |--Orlando------
|---Orlando-----
(4) Charlotte |--Chicago------ |
(5) Chicago | |
|-----NY--------
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |--Indiana------ | |
|-----NY-------- |
(3) New York/2* |--NY----------- |
(6) Cleveland | |
| Spurs
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |---Spurs------- |
|------Spurs---- |
(4) Seattle |----LA--------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|-----Spurs-----
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |----Phoenix---- |
|-----Phoenix---
(3) Utah (2*) |----Utah-------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2967 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Wed Apr 26 1995 12:18 | 7 |
|
well I've extracted the entries. I'll run it but I ain't promising
no prizes. You get 2 points for the first round winners, 4 points
for the conference semis, 8 for the conference finals and 12 points
for picking the champ.........
mike
|
| 10.2968 | thanks Mike | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Wed Apr 26 1995 14:12 | 0 |
| 10.2969 | First team to 90 wins | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Wed Apr 26 1995 14:47 | 10 |
| There is no way I would ever pick the Knicks to win anything, ever.
That aside, I really believe Clevelnad has a decent shot at them. You
know Fratello will keep the scoring down, Tyrone Hill can negate Oakley
on the boards, Hot Rod will battle Patrick, Price will give the guards
fits. If Brandon were available, it would be a stroll in the park for
the Cavs. Even without him, I see the Cavs winning in five very close,
low-scoring games.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2970 | playoffs schedule | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Wed Apr 26 1995 15:19 | 67 |
| NBA schedule for Thursday, 4/27...
(TBS) Cleveland at New York ( 7:00 pm)
(TNT) Atlanta at Indiana ( 8:00 pm)
(TBS) Houston at Utah ( 9:30 pm)
(TNT) LA Lakers at Seattle (10:30 pm)
NBA schedule for Friday, 4/28...
(TBS) Chicago at Charlotte ( 7:00 pm)
(TNT) Boston at Orlando ( 8:00 pm)
(TBS) Denver at San Antonio ( 9:30 pm)
(TNT) Portland at Phoenix (10:30 pm)
NBA schedule for Saturday, 4/29...
(NBC) Cleveland at New York ( 1:00 pm)
(NBC) LA Lakers at Seattle ( 3:30 pm)
(TNT) Atlanta at Indiana ( 7:30 pm)
(TNT) Houston at Utah (10:00 pm)
NBA schedule for Sunday, 4/30...
(NBC) Boston at Orlando (12:30 pm)
(NBC) Portland at Phoenix ( 3:00 pm)
(NBC) Chicago at Charlotte ( 5:30 pm)
(TNT) Denver at San Antonio ( 9:00 pm)
NBA schedule for Monday, 5/1...
(TNT) New York at Cleveland ( 8:00 pm)
(TNT) Seattle at LA Lakers (10:30 pm)
NBA schedule for Tuesday, 5/2...
(TBS) Indiana at Atlanta ( 7:00 pm)
(TNT) Charlotte at Chicago ( 8:00 pm)
(TNT) San Antonio at Denver (10:30 pm)
(TBS) Phoenix at Portland ( TBA )
NBA schedule for Wednesday, 5/3...
(TNT) Orlando at Boston ( 7:00 pm)
(TBS) Utah at Houston ( 9:30 pm)
NBA schedule for Thursday, 5/4...
(TBA) New York at Cleveland ( TBA )
(TBA) Charlotte at Chicago ( TBA )
(TBA) San Antonio at Denver ( TBA )
(TBA) Seattle at LA Lakers ( TBA )
NBA schedule for Friday, 5/5...
(TBA) Orlando at Boston ( TBA )
(TBA) Indiana at Atlanta ( TBA )
(TBA) Phoenix at Portland ( TBA )
(TBA) Utah at Houston ( TBA )
NBA schedule for Saturday, 5/6...
(NBC) LA Lakers at Seattle ( 3:30 pm)
(NBC) Denver at San Antonio ( TBA )
NBA schedule for Sunday, 5/7...
(NBC) Boston at Orlando ( TBA )
(NBC) Atlanta at Indiana ( TBA )
(NBC) Cleveland at New York ( TBA )
(NBC) Chicago at Charlotte ( TBA )
(NBC) Portland at Phoenix ( TBA )
(NBC) Houston at Utah ( TBA )
BTW: The Knicks-Cavs series was split at 2-2. Each and every game was won
by the road team.
|
| 10.2971 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Wed Apr 26 1995 15:45 | 26 |
|
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |--Orlando-------
|---Orlando------
(4) Charlotte |--Chicago------- |
(5) Chicago | |
|----Orlando-----
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |--Atlanta------- | |
|--New York------ |
(3) New York/2* |--New York----- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|
|--Orlando
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |--San Antonio--- |
|--San Antonio--- |
(4) Seattle |--Seattle------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|--Phoenix-------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |-------Phoenix-- |
|---Phoenix------
(3) Utah (2*) |-------Housto---
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2972 | Cause Nike wants it that way | AD::HEATH | Pitchers and catchers report when??? | Wed Apr 26 1995 15:57 | 27 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando |
(8) Boston |-----Boston----
|----Chicago----
(4) Charlotte |---Chicago----- |
(5) Chicago | |
|----Chicago----
(2) Indiana/3* | | |
(7) Atlanta |----Indiana----- | |
|----New York---- |
(3) New York/2* |----New York---- |
(6) Cleveland | |
|-----Chicago---
(1) San Antonio | |
(8) Denver |---San Anton--- |
|--San Antonio-- |
(4) Seattle |----Seattle---- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | |
|-San Antonio---
(2) Phoenix (3*)| |
(7) Portland |---Phoenix------ |
|-----Phoenix----
(3) Utah (2*) |---Houston------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2973 | | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Wed Apr 26 1995 16:15 | 13 |
| > <<< Note 10.2969 by TNPUBS::NAZZARO "Thanks for a great year UMass!" >>>
> -< First team to 90 wins >-
>
> There is no way I would ever pick the Knicks to win anything, ever.
>
> That aside, I really believe Clevelnad has a decent shot at them. You
What the hail is a "Clevelnad"? A 'nad the size of a raisin?
Kevin
|
| 10.2974 | Sizes may differ - check your own nads for proper size and shape | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Wed Apr 26 1995 19:43 | 3 |
| Yes, it is.
NAZZ
|
| 10.2975 | Still hopes seeing Michael getting his fourth! | BIS5::63877::Roosen | | Thu Apr 27 1995 09:28 | 26 |
| (1) Orlando |Orlando
(8) Boston |---------------- Orlando
Chicago |----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- |
(5) Chicago | | New York
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* |Indiana | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- New York | |
New York |---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | | Phoenix
|--------------
(1) San Antonio | San Antonio |
(8) Denver |---------------- San Antonio |
LA Lakers |---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | Phoenix |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| Phoenix |
(7) Portland |---------------- Phoenix |
Utah |----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2976 | Pointer to BOSTON_CELTICS? | BIS5::63877::Roosen | | Thu Apr 27 1995 09:43 | 7 |
| Due to havy workload I wasn't able to read notes as much I wanted.
So what happened to FRETZ::BOSTON_CELTICS? I rather liked to read about NBA
in that conference than in the more general SPORTS conference.
Any pointer would be gratefull.
Paddy
|
| 10.2977 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Thu Apr 27 1995 12:56 | 4 |
|
Boston Celtics is now at HUMANE::BOSTON_CELTICS.
Ron
|
| 10.2978 | da bulls | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Thu Apr 27 1995 12:59 | 12 |
|
Geez my paper said that for the first time ever in NBA history
a team without a HCA throughtout the playoffs is the overall
favorite to win the title at 5-2. Wonder who that team could
be Mair? Certainly not overwhelming favorites as the Spurs, Knicks,
Seattle, Suns, Magic and Utah are all 8-1 or better but still
the favorites...........
must be something to that Nike > Rebook thing Billte been telling
us........
;^)
|
| 10.2979 | Can you bet against a team :-) | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu Apr 27 1995 13:33 | 19 |
| Im confused, that 5-2 # just means you have to spend $500 to win
$200 right ? If the Spurs/Knicks/Seattle/Suns/Magic and Utah
all have higher odds of winning how can chicago be called a
favorite to win it all ???????
I also noticed that the Paper only has Charlotte getting 2.5 pts
for tonights game, not 7 like earlier reported
One other nit, someone mentioned that the Knicks closed the (Boston)
garden with a win... NOT the garden is still open and Orlando will
be there for game 3 (Which could be the Last Celtic's game ever in
the Old Boston Garden) then onto the Fleet Center.
Anyone wont to end this Balongny about the bulls being the Favorites.
I'll be anyone, any amount with odds that the BULLS WILLNOT WIN THE
NBA CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR... Takers :-) (This is of course a joke
(wink,wink) as betting is not allowed).
MairB
|
| 10.2980 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | | Thu Apr 27 1995 14:44 | 9 |
|
higher odds does not mean more likely to win
If the previous replies are accurate, the odds are 5:2 for Chicago and
8:1 for most of the rest. This means given 5 chances the bulls are
expected to win 2, while the others are given 8 chances to win once.
Marc
|
| 10.2981 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Thu Apr 27 1995 15:07 | 8 |
|
exactly.
in other words for every dollar you bet on Chicago to win if they do
vegas will give 2.50 dollar back. for every buck you bet on say utah
at 8-1 vegas will give you 8 bucks for every 1 buck you bet back.......
face Mair despite your whinning they're the favorites.....
|
| 10.2982 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Apr 27 1995 18:15 | 30 |
| > all have higher odds of winning how can chicago be called a
> favorite to win it all ???????
'Cause Vegas will give less money if you bet on the JordanBulls, meaning
more money is coming in on the JordanBulls than any other team. Obviously,
more people believe the JordanBulls will win than any other team.
> I also noticed that the Paper only has Charlotte getting 2.5 pts
> for tonights game, not 7 like earlier reported
Lines change constantly.
> One other nit, someone mentioned that the Knicks closed the (Boston)
> garden with a win... NOT the garden is still open
YES. The Knicks won the last regular season game in both Chicago Stadium
and The Boston Garden. You can look it up.
> Anyone wont to end this Balongny about the bulls being the Favorites.
They are. USA Today has quotes from people all around the NBA (TV, coaches,
*experts*, etc), and many are picking the JordanBulls to win it all.
> I'll be anyone,
Can you 'be like Mike' ? :^)
|
| 10.2983 | JAZZ ALL THE WAY | STRATA::GARRY | | Thu Apr 27 1995 19:20 | 26 |
| Playoffs
(1) Orlando ORLANDO
(8) Boston |---------------- ORLANDO
CHICAGO |----------------
(4) Charlotte |---------------- | INDIANA
(5) Chicago | |
|----------------
(2) Indiana/3* | INDIANA | |
(7) Atlanta |---------------- INDIANA | |
NY |---------------- |
(3) New York/2* |---------------- |
(6) Cleveland | | UTAH
|---------------
(1) San Antonio | SA |
(8) Denver |---------------- SEATTLE |
SEATTLE |---------------- |
(4) Seattle |---------------- | |
(5) LA Lakers | | UTAH |
|----------------
(2) Phoenix (3*)| PHOENIX |
(7) Portland |---------------- UTAH |
UTAH |----------------
(3) Utah (2*) |----------------
(6) Houston |
|
| 10.2984 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Thu Apr 27 1995 20:31 | 8 |
|
I believe TNT did a preview last night. Chuck Daly picked Orlando
to win the whole thing. Orlando will not win an NBA championship.
Until Shaq can hit 65% of his free throws. The whole team has to
improve. They are the worst free throw shooting team in the league.
In a close game foul Shaq and you will win the game.
Ron
|
| 10.2985 | | SOLANA::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Thu Apr 27 1995 21:11 | 7 |
| > The Knicks won the last regular season game in both Chicago Stadiumand
> The Boston Garden. You can look it up.
Typical Knicks. Maybe someday they'll realize it's the playoffs that
count. ~/~
brews
|
| 10.2986 | I don't think so!!!!!!!!! | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri Apr 28 1995 11:23 | 8 |
|
Will the Cavaders score more than 70 Something pts in a playoff
game this year?
Chap
|
| 10.2987 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Apr 28 1995 13:57 | 1 |
| Did Seattle beat the Lakers last night ?
|
| 10.2988 | | PCBUOA::LEFEBVRE | PCBU Asia/Pacific Marketing | Fri Apr 28 1995 14:02 | 3 |
| Yes, by about 30 points if I heard Breen correctly.
Mark.
|
| 10.2989 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri Apr 28 1995 14:05 | 3 |
|
I think it was 96-71??
|
| 10.2990 | There can be only 1 last game | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri Apr 28 1995 14:50 | 12 |
| Anyone have the west coast scores, I know NY and Ind won but havnt
seen any definite scores from out west.
-afew I thought someone said the Knicks won the last Basketball game
played in the Garden, which couldnt be said when there are still
games scheduled. Chances are Orlando will win the last game played
in the boston garden (I dont care if its exhibition, Reg or Playoffs
there can be only 1 last game played there, of course we can get into
insignificants all you want, like who was the last team to play in
the boston garden on a 3rd tuesday of a month).
mairB
|
| 10.2991 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri Apr 28 1995 14:52 | 4 |
|
Utah won by 1
Seattle won by 25 96-71
|
| 10.2992 | Favourites all the way | BUMP::JSRINIVASAN | | Fri Apr 28 1995 14:54 | 24 |
|
Knicks over the listless Cavs 103-79. Price was off the mark through
out and this could be the blow for Cleveland. They were outscored in
almost all the turnovers.
In the second match Pacers used a late surge in the third to beat the
Hawks by eight points. Pacers were down by 10 points at one stage in
the third qtr.
The match of the day was the third one. Hakeem and Rockets were, at
point of time seemed all set for an upset (atleast on the cards).
Utah pulled a two point victory with 2 second left. The mailman was
not in his usual self in the early going. Hakeem finished with 45
points to his credit.
Seattle bundled out Lakers early and never looked back. Though Lakers
reduced the deficit to 3 points midway, Sonics were too much for them
yesterday. Final score 96-71 in favour of Seattle.
So far no upsets. Sincerely beleiving Celts will be the first team
this year to do so.
Srini
|
| 10.2993 | Bulls will be the first Underdog to win on the road :-) | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri Apr 28 1995 15:00 | 6 |
| My paper has the Bulls on at 7pm tonight TBS, is this central/pacific
time or does it really start at 7pm on the east coast ?
My Cable company added TBS about a month or so ago, just in time :-)
MairB
|
| 10.2994 | Are Bulls not favourites? | BUMP::JSRINIVASAN | | Fri Apr 28 1995 15:17 | 6 |
| re 10.2993:
According Boston Globe Bulls are the favourites even though they are
playing on road. That's why I said Celts will be the first team.
Srini
|
| 10.2995 | HTH's | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri Apr 28 1995 15:34 | 9 |
|
Hey MAB.
Your Cable Company has had TBS for years!!
It got TNT about a month ago though!!!
Chap
|
| 10.2996 | 7pm Eastern | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Fri Apr 28 1995 16:16 | 10 |
| 10.2997 | draft order | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Fri Apr 28 1995 16:45 | 33 |
| NBA Draft:
1. LA Clippers (250 outta 1000 chances)
2. Washington (won coin flip) (203)
3. Minnesota (162)
4. Philadelphia (126)
5. Golden State (94)
6. Toronto/Vancouver (order to be determined after finals)
7. Toronto/Vancouver (expansion teams pick 6&7)
8. Detroit (66) (might have to swap with San Antonio)
9. New Jersey (44)
10. Miami (27)
11. Milwaukee (15)
12. Dallas (8)
13. Sacramento (5)
14. Boston
15. Denver
16. Atlanta (at the Hawks option; either this or 96 pick;
part of 94 Willis-Long-Smith trade)
17. Cleveland
18. Portland
19. Houston/Chicago (order set after playoffs)
20. Houston/Chicago
21. Phoenix (from Lakers; part of 94 Ceballos trade)
22. Charlotte
23. Indiana
24. Dallas (from Knicks; part of 92 Blackman trade)
25. Seattle/Orlando (order set after playoffs)
26. Seattle/Orlando
27. Phoenix
28. Utah
29. San Antonio (option to switch with Detroit unless Detroit is to 8;
part of 93 Rodman-Elliot trade)
|
| 10.2998 | Celts will take out Orlando | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri Apr 28 1995 16:56 | 1 |
| 10.2999 | | CSLALL::BRULE | Was there life before ESPN? | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:01 | 3 |
| Anyone know when the expansion draft will be held?
Mike
|
| 10.3000 | NBA SNARF | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:03 | 1 |
| 10.3001 | This is what I remember | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:26 | 5 |
| The expansion draft will be held after the end of the playoffs and
before the NBA draft. The exact date will be determined by when the
playoffs end.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3002 | Confused | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:27 | 6 |
| Re. the NBA draft order:
What does it mean when it says Atlanta's pick is at the Hawks option?
Does this mean they can switch this pick with Miami's?
NAZZ
|
| 10.3003 | either 95 or 96 to Miami | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:29 | 5 |
| As I read it, they can either give this pick or nexted year's pick to
Miami to complete the trade. It's at Atlanta's option which year they do
it. Miami keeps its own picks.
TTom
|
| 10.3004 | Trade appears clear to me now | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:36 | 5 |
| So, Atlanta got Smith and Long, and they gave Miami Willis and a #1.
I get it now! Thanks.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3005 | Not quite! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:39 | 13 |
| From last fall, a prediction that didn't quite come true:
<<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS.NOTE;1 >>>
-< SPORTS >-
================================================================================
Note 10.2451 The National Basketball Association (NBA) 2451 of 3004
25022::BREEN 2 lines 8-NOV-1994 09:39
-< I'll go right out on a limb >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was a tremendous trade for the Heat and clinches a playoff spot
for them for years to come.
|
| 10.3006 | er Caw,caw? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Apr 28 1995 17:58 | 12 |
| Great Gotcha Nazz
I'd hoped you'd all have forgotten. That was almost as bad as you
holding out Houston as getting the better of the Drexler-Thorpe trade
but I suppose you'll make us wait until the end of the playoffs for
that one.
Besides the Heat get a number 1. But unquestionably the Hawks and
Wilkins knew what they were doing (Willis = trouble) and bit a hard
bullet. The Heat had the playoffs clinched but self destructed, an
incorrigible franchise a la Clips.
Somebody get ahold of that Kath person to help me out here, I'm all
spinned out.
|
| 10.3007 | Comeon Cleveland.... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Mon May 01 1995 21:29 | 5 |
| How about them might Knicks losing to Cleveland at home. Other than
Williams and Price who are those Cavs??? What is the problem with
Ewing? I don't think at Cleveland has a legitimate center with
Daugherty being gone. Anyway goooo Cleveland, knock them Knicks out.
|
| 10.3008 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Tue May 02 1995 12:04 | 6 |
|
refs step in and Knicks win by 2 last night.
Frank, Ewing's problem is he's a wuss.
mike
|
| 10.3009 | That Ewing guy gets all the calls | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue May 02 1995 13:24 | 6 |
| I didnt see that game but can you expand on the Refs step in comment ?
I was major bummed when I seen the score flash accross ths screen
and NY only managed a 2pt victory... Go Cleveland :-)
mab
|
| 10.3010 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue May 02 1995 13:33 | 7 |
|
> refs step in and Knicks win by 2 last night.
While I didn't see the whole game, what I did see seemed to be
reasonably called - did I miss something?
Joe
|
| 10.3011 | Danny Ferry | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue May 02 1995 13:58 | 10 |
| Wail, let's put this whole thang in perspective.
Cleveland gave the ball to Danny Ferry to try to win the game. 'Nuff
said. Refs or no refs, when your game plan is Danny Ferry, you're in a
world of hurt.
Also, ask John Starks about the refs. He seemed to dispute the 3rd, 4th
and 5th fouls that were called on him.
TTom
|
| 10.3012 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue May 02 1995 14:01 | 8 |
|
> Cleveland gave the ball to Danny Ferry to try to win the game. 'Nuff
> said. Refs or no refs, when your game plan is Danny Ferry, you're in a
> world of hurt.
That's not really fair; Ferry, for all his faults, _can_ shoot.
Joe
|
| 10.3013 | I didn't say that | AKOCOA::BREEN | They don't make Chews like Charlston any more.. | Tue May 02 1995 14:15 | 5 |
| So what do folks think about Webber up in the booth? I assume he's
there for the younger folks but given the army of producers and
manufactured scripts anybody can talk the talk.
Game analysis is so inane I almost yearn for Packer
|
| 10.3014 | go with Price | HBAHBA::HAAS | You ate my hiding place. | Tue May 02 1995 14:18 | 8 |
| > That's not really fair; Ferry, for all his faults, _can_ shoot.
I agree, up to a point. However, when the game is on the line, I'd rather
see Mark Price force a foul when he's almost dead certain to make both
shots. That's OT, baby and with the Knicks in foul trouble and the Cavs
at home, it favors Cleveland.
TTom
|
| 10.3015 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Tue May 02 1995 14:21 | 10 |
|
well Patrick should have had 4 in the first half but the boxscore
shows the Knicks with 30 fouls and the Cavs with 28 so you could say
there was some balance but when I rad the byline that that Knicks
scored 13 of their last 17 points of the game from the line and took
their final lead from the foul line, I assume the refs stepped in with
some favorable calls..........besides it's pretty obvious I hate the
knicks and will take any opportunity I can to slam them.........
mike
|
| 10.3016 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 02 1995 14:22 | 10 |
| > I didnt see that game but can you expand on the Refs step in comment ?
That's just one of MikeC's 'canned' excuses whenever a team he doesn't
like wins. And he used to bash ACC_Chris ???
The refs didn't decide this thing. The Knicks didn't *deserve* to win it,
but they did 'cause Cleveland is just an awful team. If Riley can ever
smarten up and double Price at halfcourt and make him give up the ball,
NY would coast. Watching Harper and Anthony play Price was a joke.
|
| 10.3017 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 02 1995 14:26 | 11 |
| > but when I rad the byline that that Knicks
> scored 13 of their last 17 points of the game from the line and took
> their final lead from the foul line, I assume the refs stepped in with
> some favorable calls..........
Actually, the calls mostly went Cleveland's way. I hope that same report
showed that Cleveland went what seemed like an eternity without scoring
a FG between the 3rd and 4th. I believe Price had 14 straight FTs in
the 4th.
Only a NY or Cleveland fan could watch that game.
|
| 10.3018 | players and picks for Championships | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Tue May 02 1995 15:19 | 42 |
| Player Champ
----------------------------------
Drew Garry Jazz
Bill Breen Knicks
Chappy Knicks
UMDan Spurs 10 |
Karen Derry Spurs 9 |
Ron Erickson Spurs 8 |
Mike Fowler Suns 7 |
R_T_G Suns 6 | *
Paul Gronowski Spurs 5 | *
TTom Suns 4 |
Joe Huber Cavs 3 | *
Joe Garbarino Knicks 2 | *
MAir Bulls 1 | * * * *
MikeyC Pacers --|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|--
Mike Heiser Suns S S K B M P J C
Nazz Spurs P U N U A A A A
Vinny Silvestri Spurs U N I L G C Z V
Boss Magic R S C L I E Z S
Jerry Heath Bulls S K S G R
Patrick Roosen Suns S S
|
| 10.3019 | doing the 2-step | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue May 02 1995 15:42 | 2 |
| 10.3020 | At least they aren't thugs... B^) | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Tue May 02 1995 18:01 | 9 |
|
> The refs didn't decide this thing. The Knicks didn't *deserve* to win it,
> but they did 'cause Cleveland is just an awful team.
An awful team?
An awful team?
Grrrr...
|
| 10.3021 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 02 1995 18:46 | 5 |
| > An awful team?
Sorry Joe. They make more mistakes than the Knicks, and NY actually has
better scorers. If it wasn't for the gameplan, that Riley seems to be
content to play along with, these games wouldn't be close.
|
| 10.3022 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Wed May 03 1995 12:12 | 13 |
|
Well the Suns, Pacers and Spurs all win their series 3-0. everyone in
the contest has 6 points with the notes exceptions below:
Mike Heiser had Denver.
Bruce May had Atlanta.
Nazz, Joe Huber, MikeyC had Portland.
Also the Bulls went up 2-1 last night rocking and rollin all over the
Hornets. My main man Zo had horrible game and looked like he ate some-
thin' bad.
mike
|
| 10.3023 | ugheth | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 03 1995 13:46 | 3 |
| Zo hath stunk up the placeth.
TTom
|
| 10.3024 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed May 03 1995 13:54 | 4 |
|
>> Mike Heiser had Denver.
MikeyH, don't quit your day job.
|
| 10.3025 | Mikey better check mine again | AKOCOA::BREEN | They don't make Chews like Charlston any more.. | Wed May 03 1995 14:05 | 5 |
| Mikey,
I had Atlanta also, I thought Wilkens could do some coaching. I
guess Indiana has woken up.
billte
|
| 10.3026 | go Vinnie | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 03 1995 14:08 | 6 |
| Mike had to go with Denver.
He's got this idea that the Spurs guards are inadequate and their
unworthy skills would ensure a quick out for San Antone.
TTom
|
| 10.3027 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 03 1995 14:30 | 3 |
| I don't profess to know a lot about the Western teams, but I do know
that Denver's lineup was not worthy of being in the playoffs. From
top-to-bottom expansion has made the NBA less appealing to me.
|
| 10.3028 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed May 03 1995 15:03 | 16 |
| Well in the East the Expansion teams not only drafter well but have
a decent Front Office to land some key Free agents and work trades.
Orlando finished 1st and Charlotte 4rth not too shabby. Minny has
stunk since day 1 and Miami has a terrible front office, have they
made a GOOD deal yet ? All expansion did was make teams/management
have to work a little harder to build a winner. A shaq type player
may have meant an automatic trip to the playoffs at one time but
not anymore (See Milwaukee, GS, Wash) you need to have a star and
the supporting cast. To get that you have to be a GREAT talent
scout and be able to work deals/trades.
I think expansion has made it more intresting, they should stop at 30
teams, that will be enough....
Mab
|
| 10.3029 | Just kidding, I'm sure Mike didn't need my help | AKOCOA::BREEN | They don't make Chews like Charlston any more.. | Wed May 03 1995 15:14 | 6 |
| Well I don't know what happened with Denver last night but with a
healthy Pack and Rauf they are about 5th in the east comparitavely.
Unfortunately I've touted poor Denver so much that poor Mike Heiser
went and took them forgetting that only Brydie and Nazz are
consistently worse than me in these pools.
|
| 10.3030 | FYI on your 5th in the east comparitavely commetnn | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed May 03 1995 15:25 | 7 |
| I think you mean about 6th in the east at best, because Orlando,
Indiana, New York, Charlotte and Chicago clearly are better teams
then Denver, then Add a HEALTHY Cleveland team (not that cleveland
could ever HAVE an injury free season) they would be above them
as well.
MairB
|
| 10.3031 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed May 03 1995 15:38 | 8 |
| 10.3032 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Wed May 03 1995 16:14 | 12 |
| > Well I don't know what happened with Denver last night but with a
> healthy Pack and Rauf they are about 5th in the east comparitavely.
The injuries to Rauf and Packman hurt the Nuggets. But the biggest reason
for their disappointing season is the knee injury of Laphonso Ellis.
He was showing signs of becoming a future superstar at the end of last
season. Because of his injury, he missed the entire season with the exception
2 minutes here and there at the end. There's a lot of speculation in
Denver that he'll never completely recover from his injury and that his
playing days may be over. Too bad, he's the most likeable guy on the team.
Keith
|
| 10.3033 | | DELNI::FORGET | | Wed May 03 1995 16:27 | 11 |
|
Last Nights Spurs/Nuggets game, right before halftime. Their was
5 T's called all about the same time. Nuggets coach got tossed after Brian
Williams got called for a foul and then lost control. The fans toss
stuff on the floor. Spurs coach Hill and a TBS announcer both got
hit with quarters. The game was every tightly called. Even the VP
Thorn from the Commish's office was there. it show that Denver has
a young team.
|
| 10.3034 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed May 03 1995 16:35 | 1 |
| 10.3035 | need change | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 03 1995 16:58 | 8 |
| I saw people throwing things but didn't realize that some of the debris
was coins. Look for the league to make some kinda statement (i.e. fine)
for this.
Then make the fans watch the Michael Jordan gets all calls video and that
should make 'em feel better :#).
TTom
|
| 10.3036 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed May 03 1995 17:16 | 10 |
|
I hesitate to say this but, all of this "Michael gets all calls"
sounds like just so much whining. Everyone knows the stars get
the calls in the NBA. And maybe because Michael is the biggest
star, he gets the lions share of the calls. Still doesn't mean
the Bulls have won games they shouldn't have because of it.
Still doens't mean he has three undeserved rings. Charlotte
git whupped last night. LA, Portland and Phoenix got whupped by
Chicago in the Finals. Barkley, Ewing, Malone - they all get the
calls too. They just don't win titles.
|
| 10.3037 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 03 1995 17:47 | 19 |
| > All expansion did was make teams/management
> have to work a little harder to build a winner. A shaq type player
> may have meant an automatic trip to the playoffs at one time but
> not anymore (See Milwaukee, GS, Wash)
I don't agree MaB. I think "a Shaq-type player" does put you in today's
NBA playoffs. Maybe not the 1st year, but every year after that. And
it's true that the front office has to work harder, but that's not my
point. Teams are making the playoffs with journeymen in their STARTING
LINEUP !
I believe Heinsohn said a few years ago that instead of contenders
being able to draft solid backups late in the 1st round, or even
trade-up to get them, they're ending up with wasted picks or projects
at best. He cited Rony Seikaly, who coming out of college could
have been had by a contender 15 years ago, but was drafted as a key
player by Miami the year he was eligible. We end up with contenders
that aren't as dominant, and teams in the playoffs that shouldn't
be there.
|
| 10.3038 | GUILTY | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 03 1995 17:58 | 16 |
| I plead guilty to whining! I have sinned in my refrain of Jordan getting
the calls.
Actually, what I'm whining about is everything to do with Jordan. I'm
tired of seeing him on the cover of everything, on the screen of every
channel and the almost total focus on him in the playoffs hype.
Now, if'n they extend this to Zo when he gets a little better, I'm sure
I'll think it's all fine and dandy.
Until then, I'll fall on my sword and promise to listen to a lot of Dick
Enberg as my punishment. Or can I opt to consume the some hemlock?
Boy that Jordan sure can dribble fast caint he? ;@)
TTom
|
| 10.3039 | not quite... | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | pet rocks, pogs, Dallas Cowboys | Wed May 03 1995 18:03 | 7 |
| >A shaq type player may have meant an automatic trip to the playoffs
>at one time
I don't think it meant it for the Magic, otherwise they never would
have gotten Penny.
brews
|
| 10.3040 | Didn't catch Sportscenter this AM | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Wed May 03 1995 18:31 | 3 |
| What was the final score in the Spurs and Suns games?
NAZZ
|
| 10.3041 | agin for ol' time[r]'s sake | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 03 1995 18:38 | 8 |
| There I go and post 'em in SCOREBOARD and all for naught. I figger
everyone's doing the nexted/unseen thing after catching up on them Hokey
finals.
san antonio 99, DENVER 95 San Antonio wins series 3-0
phoenix 117, PORTLAND 109 Phoenix wins series 3-0
TTom
|
| 10.3042 | I hate seeing the same old teams every year (Except Bulls) | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Wed May 03 1995 19:51 | 20 |
| Well I for one like the uncertainty of WHO WILL BE There. yes it was
fun in the early 80's each year talking about who the Celtics or
Lakers would meet or when/where etc but it got boring for me real
quickly and thats when I left following the Celtics and rooted for
atlanta/Chicago and other young/underdog type teams.
This year was Orlando/New York in the east, nobody thought anyone else
had a shot and it seemed like everyone assumed Phoenix from the west.
Nothing wold bore me more then New York or Orlando vs Phoenix... Too
predictable, but then Jordan's Back and it adds a 3rd team in the east.
San Antonio goes wild and all of a sudden there the team to beat. THis
is great, really think about it 4teams from both the East and West have
legitamate shots at the title. The best TEAM and Coach will prevail
and
it wont be dont with one player (No matter how good jordan or shaq are
you need a team around you and a decent coach).
GO CELTICS :-)
mab
|
| 10.3043 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed May 03 1995 20:43 | 4 |
| 10.3044 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 03 1995 21:23 | 21 |
| > -< I hate seeing the same old teams every year (Except Bulls) >-
C'mon MaB, you find it exciting ONLY because the JordanBulls are back.
And how could Orlando-New York be boring ? They've never met in the
playoffs. You have the old warrior against the new kid. You've got
a bit of a rivalry already there. It couldn't possibly be boring, unless
you equate boring with predictable (that they would meet).
To non-Jordan fans, his return has taken some of the excitement out of
the playoffs. Ask TTom how he felt when he realized Char had to face
the JordanBulls. After having a franchise-best season, they were talking
about not being swept.
Now, having the JordanBulls back certainly makes for a different kind
of excitement. Can anyone beat them ? But that's a whole lot different
than Ind, NY, Orl or Char thinking Chicago wasn't a factor, and only
they were serious title contenders.
If Jordan doesn't come back, my guess is your workload drastically increases
and you don't have time for the playoffs.
|
| 10.3045 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Thu May 04 1995 12:06 | 15 |
|
What A FREAKIN heartbreak that one was. First time all year I had
goosepimples watching the C's. Ford should be shot for the way he
coahed the last 3 minutes of the game, especially his use of the
timeouts. Without an automatic go-to guy what's the sense of stopping
and setting up a play? Just let the guys attack and take the chips
as they fall. He also should have rode Ellison till fouled out.
Even still though all those bad decision could have been overcome
if Wilkins had just gone for the jam instead of that wussy finger
roll.......
82-77 Magic for those without coverage.
95-82 Utah to take a 2-1 lead over the Rockets
DAM!!!!!!
|
| 10.3046 | Mike who's been spending too much time working on the house | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu May 04 1995 12:39 | 23 |
| -2. WorkLoad still HUGE but hey this is the playoffs, plus I get into
work between 6:30-7:00am so I have a little personal time to do things
I want (or have) to do (I started jogging, I do 2.8 to 4.0 miles every
morning).
I'll admit it, I figured there was no way in hell anyone other then NY
or Orlando (My least favorite teams in the east) would make the finals.
Being a HUGE BBall fan this made me very depressed. Then MJ comes back
and everything changes a bit, of course the last team I wanted them to
see in rnd 1 was Charlotte, I wish they could both move onto rnd 2. (I
have to bad talk and put down charlotte right now because there playing
the bulls but really I like them).
One thing for sure after watching a few games of Boston VS Orlando I
now think Chicago has a AWSOME chance to get by orlando. They dont
seem to be a smart team (on the floor or off). If you can get Shaq
in foul trouble and send him to the line as often as possible you can
sweep them. If boston could hit open jumper's they would be up 2-1, up
3 pts with just over a minute to go and you lost by 5 thats pitaful.
Now if I can just free up time at night to watch every playoff game
I'd be all set :-)
mab
|
| 10.3047 | twas brillig | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Thu May 04 1995 14:13 | 8 |
| > > Nothing wold bore me more then New York or Orlando vs Phoenix... Too
>
> ^^^^ is this one of them sniglet things meaning "a wild
> mold"?
That there's one of them portmanteuas.
TTom
|
| 10.3048 | unless you can fit Spaldings in 'em | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu May 04 1995 15:45 | 1 |
| 10.3049 | bags are packed | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Thu May 04 1995 15:55 | 6 |
| Well I have my suitcase packed and getting ready to head to the Derby by
way of Greenville, SC to see Robert Earl Keene.
T minus about 60 and counting...
TTom
|
| 10.3050 | Gots my compact oxford here along with magnifier | AKOCOA::BREEN | They don't make Chews like Charlston any more.. | Thu May 04 1995 16:21 | 1 |
| Wasn't it a wold where the slithy toves gyred and gimbled
|
| 10.3051 | I think that was in the wabe | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Thu May 04 1995 16:30 | 0 |
| 10.3052 | | MKOTS3::LONG | Spring has sprung, grass has riz | Thu May 04 1995 16:56 | 6 |
| Ever have one of those days where you left your RASCO decoder ring
home on the dresser and all you can do is fumble through the day
thying to keep up?
billl
|
| 10.3053 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | Inside Intel, way inside | Thu May 04 1995 17:02 | 9 |
| >and all you can do is fumble through the day thying to keep up?
>billl
"thying to keep up," isn't that something that goes on at a TALC
parlor?
brews
|
| 10.3054 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Thu May 04 1995 17:32 | 14 |
| Man, we must all be suffering from shifted keyboards today.
Billl was talking about a RASCO ring.... RASCO, wasn't he that raccoon that
Sterling North had as a pet?
It's RCASO.
"'thying' to keep up" is something that Biblical copyists of lesser ability, who
were working on the King James Version, did a lot of.
What a dey!
'Saw
|
| 10.3055 | But Ttom started it so blame him | AKOCOA::BREEN | They don't make Chews like Charlston any more.. | Thu May 04 1995 18:06 | 3 |
| Billl that was just a little Jabberwocky a la Dodgson (Lewis Carroll) -
I think it was his Humpty Dumpty character (WC Fields) who coined the
term portmanteau word.
|
| 10.3056 | must be a good sign... | MKOTS3::LONG | Spring has sprung, grass has riz | Thu May 04 1995 18:08 | 8 |
| re RASCO and thying:
I saw both of those after I entered the note, but was just too
damn busy to correct them. The phones are going crazy here lately.
Folks jusy can't seem to buy enough of those AlphaStations.
billl
|
| 10.3057 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu May 04 1995 18:37 | 5 |
| IVE TAKEN OVER ALL YOUR KEYBOARDS :-) Now I just have to find a way
to convince you all to type with my Grammer/Runon Sentences and my
job will be done.... :-)
mab
|
| 10.3058 | she's a nice ole gal | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu May 04 1995 19:00 | 1 |
| 10.3059 | who said MJ doesn't get all the calls? ;^) | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Fri May 05 1995 12:03 | 17 |
|
Bulls 85 Hornets 84 boo hoo hoo
Knicks 93 Cavs 80
Lakers 114 Sonics 110
so all three win their series 3-1. thanks to the late start I only
saw the first half of the Bulls game but from reading the ESPNet
it sounds like I would have lost sleep had I stayed awake. A lot
of folks picked the LA upset and after 6 games we have 4 people
who are still perfect.
Ms. Derry
MAir
Joe Garbarino
Pat Roosen
mike
|
| 10.3060 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | | Fri May 05 1995 13:06 | 9 |
|
Mike, you didn't miss anything, just 7 lead changes in the final 2:30
or so 8^)
Lakers made a comeback from 12 down in convincing style to snuff the
sonics again.
Marc
|
| 10.3061 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri May 05 1995 13:29 | 24 |
| > Lakers made a comeback from 12 down in convincing style to snuff the
> sonics again.
Another *great* coach should be unemployed soon.
MikeC, Bristow didn't give the last shot to Mourning. He's an idiot, and
should also be fired. Johnson's shot was embarrassing (turn-around
AAAAIIIIIRRRR-BBBBAAAALLLLLLL). And I know this will upset TTom, but
that team will NEVER go anywhere in the playoffs with MUGSY BOGUES as
their lead point guard. He's useless in the halfcourt set, absolutely
awful. How pathetic is it when DAVID WINGATE is your POINT GUARD in
the biggest quarter (4th) of the season....and he actually did a better
job than MUGSY !!!!
Hey MaB, did the Knicks do what they were supposed to do as a #3 seed ?
(ie: winning in 4)
The media is already jumping on Indiana's bandwagon. No endorsements
for the Knicks (Motta, Goukas).
|
| 10.3062 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri May 05 1995 13:32 | 3 |
|
So have the Cavs ever been to the Championship Game??
|
| 10.3063 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Fri May 05 1995 13:49 | 7 |
|
In the story I read, Bristow went as far as to say that LJ was their
mainman! hahahaaa
maybe by dollars payed but not earned.......
mike
|
| 10.3064 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri May 05 1995 16:00 | 9 |
| Ya Charlotte clearly has there problem, LJ is basically a disapointment
even bigger if you factor in his PAYCHECK. ZO's they man and they need
a PointGuard, Mugsy was a negetive to this team, he's a great player
but a starting point guard on a contender I dont think so...
So if Boston Loses tonight is game 1 of the Bulls/Magic on Sunday ?
MairB
(There must be a mistake Im still perfect in the predictions :-)..)
|
| 10.3065 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | Mich fightsong=One bourbon,one scotch and one beer | Fri May 05 1995 16:24 | 8 |
| > Mugsy was a negetive to this team, he's a great player but a
> starting point guard on a contender I dont think so...
OK, I can put up with lousy spelling and grammar, but this takes the
cake. How can someonne be a "great player" but not good enough to be
a starting point guard on a contender?
brews
|
| 10.3066 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Fri May 05 1995 16:29 | 6 |
| > OK, I can put up with lousy spelling and grammar, but this takes the
> cake. How can someonne be a "great player" but not good enough to be
> a starting point guard on a contender?
AirLogic(tm)?
|
| 10.3067 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | | Fri May 05 1995 16:53 | 12 |
|
>OK, I can put up with lousy spelling and grammar, but this takes the
>cake. How can someonne be a "great player" but not good enough to be
>a starting point guard on a contender?
Easy, would you consider Russell (of Celtics fame) a great player? How
about a starting point guard on a contender? Okay, I'm all done being
the devils advocate 8^)
Marc
|
| 10.3068 | For next year's bracket selections | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Fri May 05 1995 17:55 | 5 |
| Here an interesting stat fer ya:
No #4 seed has beaten a #5 seed since 1991!!!!
NAZZ
|
| 10.3069 | OK He's better then Average | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri May 05 1995 18:02 | 17 |
| You can have a GREAT 6th 7th or even 8th player off the bench, just
because there not GREAT ENOUGH to start on a team or bring them to
the next level (IE Championship) doesnt degrade there ablility.
OK I Guess I'll have to say it HE'S TOO DARN SHORT... For hits Hight
he's the GREATEST PLAYER To ever play the GAME, he just won't bring
them any rings (Being a short person I was trying not to bring his
height into this).
-2, I guess seattle will have to try and finish 5th next year to avoid
having to play a 5th or 8th seed team :-(...
I guess I'll have to be more selective with my words, Ive seen guys on
the local Basketball court that Ive call GREAT players, buy they like
mugsy wont be leading any NBA teams to a championship :-)
MairB
|
| 10.3070 | it's not as obvious during the regular season | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri May 05 1995 20:04 | 1 |
| 10.3071 | nice job refs (this wasn't clemson it was charlotte) | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Sun May 07 1995 13:14 | 6 |
| 10.3072 | ala ACChris | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Mon May 08 1995 00:11 | 72 |
| Well below are the point totals after round 1. No one is perfect mostly
thanks to Jerry Sloan's Dean Smith's tatics which cost 3 folks perfection.
MAir sorry but I had to drop one of your wins. You picked Seattle and the
Lakers to win and didn't pick a winner in the Utah/Houston series. Given
that you didn't use the proper form I would have given you some leeway but
you picked all the games according to the order of the brackets but picked
the Lakers were you should have made a Utah/Houston pick.
Now for the really good news I decided that I couldn't not give a prize
and the prize should be wicked cool, so it just so happens that I have
a free coupon for a CD from Columbia House so that's the winner's prize.
A CD of the winner's choice provided it's one that Columbia House carries.
I know Karen it might be tough for you to find anything cool in their
catalog but maybe you could get a present for someone else should you
be the winner...........
if there's a tie, but you have the winner of the finals and the other
person doesn't you're the winner. If both or more than 2 people are
tied than the one who sucks up the most by writing a Why the Knicks
suck essay will be the winner............
;^)
mikeyC
PS. I'm not pulling a TCM, I got called into work. Most unsual for me
on a sunday and I had to give up the most hype matchup of the playoffs
so far. gosh darn
Player Champ 1st rnd
--------------------------------------------
Drew Garry Jazz 12
Bill Breen Knicks 10
Chappy Knicks 12
UMDan Spurs 12
Karen Derry Spurs 14
Ron Erickson Spurs 10
Mike Fowler Suns 12
R_T_G Suns 14
Paul Gronowski Spurs 10
TTom Suns 12
Joe Huber Cavs 4
Joe Garbarino Knicks 14
MAir Bulls 12
MikeyC Pacers 6
Mike Heiser Suns 10
Nazz Spurs 12
Vinny Silvestri Spurs 14
Boss Magic 12
Jerry Heath Bulls 12
Patrick Roosen Suns 14
|
| 10.3073 | Knicks lose, Bulls Lose, Jazz lose | OURGNG::RIGGEN | Networks Sales & Marketing | Mon May 08 1995 02:48 | 8 |
| Don't know if I'm happier about Indiana and Reggie Miller winning
or the fact that the NY Knicks gave up the game with 18 seconds
left. I'll be the first to admit I turned it off before it was over.
I wish NBC would just put the schedule to reflect the importance of the
game. e.g. Game starts 1:00 EST--- Last 2:00 should be shown at 3:30
Jeff
|
| 10.3074 | out of here in about 20... | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Mon May 08 1995 03:22 | 6 |
|
Hi Jeff,
What drags you in so late? Bulls lost that's good to hear....
mike
|
| 10.3075 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Mon May 08 1995 10:42 | 5 |
| 10.3076 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Mon May 08 1995 12:00 | 2 |
|
the big brass told him the series must go 7..........
|
| 10.3077 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | | Mon May 08 1995 12:23 | 13 |
|
Actually, my take on the last "shot" was that the defender was only
slightly behind and on the shooting hand and given that Jordan was
already on the way down, it would have been a difficult shot. So he
passed (poorly) to the open player. If it was a good pass, then you
would be looking at a one point Chicago win.
Kudos to the Magic, who have now won three straight close games in the
playoffs. I figured the close games would do them in, but that appears
to be incorrect at this point in time.
Marc
|
| 10.3078 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Mon May 08 1995 12:26 | 6 |
| I watched a bit of a couple of NBA games over the weekend.
Man, I can't believe the amount of shuffling and traveling that goes on
that never gets called.....
'Saw
|
| 10.3079 | Since when does JORDAN dish off inthe Closing Seconds ??? | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 08 1995 12:28 | 43 |
| this weekend was a BIG WOW on the NBA front...
Game 1: Indiana looked in control and then let the game totally get
away from them, it looked over, it was over but with under
20 seconds left in the game Reggie Miller hit a 3pt shot,then
he steals the inbound pass jumps out past the 3pt line and
drains another one.... THEN Indiana makes a huge error (SO they
thought) by fouling Starks on the next inbound, BUT he missed
both free throws, EWING gets the REBOUND AND CHOKES a short
jumper, Miller gets the rebound and fouled (Drains both),then
on the next trip down NY Guards (Anthony I think) falls down
and the clock runs out... Never in my life have I seen such an
ending to a BBall game.
GAME 2: No big deal (from my standpoint) although I think a Utah vs
Phoenix Series would have been very boring...
GAME 3: The big one, MJ and Pippen do all this WHINING about how the
rest of the team has to get involved AND THEY COME THRU BIG
time. The 3 Center's (Combined) outplayed Orlando's Center's
Kukoc/BJ/Kerr/Bench all played GREAT... SO it should have been
a blowout.. BUT with jordan and Pippen combining for 10-33 from
the floor PLUS at least 10-15 TURNOVERS they LOST THIS GAME FOR
Chicago. The Center(s) were 11-16 from the field a perfect 6-6
from the line with 28pts and like 20rebounds. Kerr/Kukoc/BJ
combined for 13-24, 5-6 from the line with 36pts. They did
there job and DID it GREAT... IF you look at the box scores
they really tell the WHOLE story.. PIPPEN/JORDAN STUNK UP THE
court.
Even with that the BULLS had this game WON with 20 seconds left, they
were up by 1 with the ball all Jordan had to do was get it over 1/2
court and hold the ball untill he gets fouled, but no the ball got
knocked loss from behind and Orlando gets an Easy 2pts (Basicaly the
ball game) except the bulls had 6 seconds to go for the win, MJ goes
up at the free throw line and PASSES OFF THE BALL TO PIPPEN, 1st off
HE SHOULD NOT HAVE PASSED, and 2nd off IF YOUR GOING TO PASS THE BALL
DONT PASS IT BEHIND THE GUY...
Jordan 0 Orlando 1
MairB
|
| 10.3080 | | MKOTS3::LONG | Spring has sprung, grass has riz | Mon May 08 1995 12:29 | 7 |
| Now you know why I liken the NBA to the WWF.
That's not really fair...the wraslers are better actors.
billl
|
| 10.3081 | I'll Admit it I was screaming at the TV at the end | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 08 1995 12:52 | 11 |
| Have you ever watched any wraslers outside the WWF, the WWF wraslers
are excellent actors compared to some of the other leagues :-) Worse
then rocky IV's ringrobics.
Actually I thought the refs did a better then average job at keeping
the games in control and calling them fairly evenly. Jordan VS
anyother team would have gone to the line about 4 more times based on
at least 4 NONCALLS that I thought should have been called and wernt
(If it wasnt Shaq/Magic they would have been called :-)...).
mairb
|
| 10.3082 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Mon May 08 1995 14:04 | 19 |
|
Saw,
You like those 4 step spin moves Shaq gets away with? He gets away
with it because he starts his move, dribbles the ball once, then takes
the 3 or 4 steps. Before dunking the ball. NBA refs stop looking at your
feet once you dribble the ball once in the paint. Why?, They are
looking for the foul. They can't watch the feet and look for the foul
at the same time.
Anyways GOTTA love those Knicks giving a game away. Granted the
refs blew a big call in that game. That decided the out come of the
game. Tell me Reggie Miller didn't knock Greg Anthony over on the in
bounds pass. After he made the 1st 3 pointer? Hey ref get a clue as to
why the inbounds pass went directly to Reggie. He knocked Greg Anthony
over 2 seconds before hand. Still GOTTA love John Starks choking on
not one but both free throws.
Ron
|
| 10.3083 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Mon May 08 1995 14:31 | 11 |
| Well, I'm not a big hoops fan, or an expert in any sense of the word,
but I noticed a lot of shuffling of feet (which really tends to get
called in the college game) and lots and lots o' steps.
They may watch for the fouls, but hell, half the time they get those wrong
too.
I wish Bill Gusic was still around so we could get his cut on this....
'Saw
|
| 10.3084 | Could have 4 series go 6 or 7 games this rnd | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 08 1995 14:50 | 25 |
| Actually if you watch the whole game you'll see they do call all the
traveling and fouls...
JUST NOT ON THE GUY WHO COMMITTS THEM :-) MJ Takes a forth step NOCALL
but next trip down if any player who's name is not known by all the
fans he gets called for the Phantom Foul. This is used througout the
league very consistently. Luckily for the BULLS they have the 3headed
monster who gets many of those calls Purdue/Longley/Wennington are very
popular to the refs has being privlidged to receiving many of Jordan
and pippen Phantom Fouls Makeup Calls. But everyteam has that guy at
the end of the bench who gets called for his first fould when he takes
off his warmups.
I thought all 3 games were great entertainment and NON of them came off
as being Unfairly Called by the refs (1 or 2 calls does not make a
game (For the most part)). Id still prefer them to let them touchey
feely acting calls go in the last 30-60 seconds of the game. Anthony
was on the floor when Miller stole the inbound and nailed the 3 but it
was a little touchey feely type foul with alot of acting, but now we
know why he's only on TV when he's playing hoop :-)
Tonight whould be a great game, all 4 series in this rnd are winable by
either team... Gotta Lov it
mab
|
| 10.3085 | Battle of the sneakers - now espn is jumping in | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon May 08 1995 17:20 | 12 |
| Well Bob Ryan went about the furthest that the top print media has
ventured that I know of in regards to the special treatment subject and
overall nba integrity. Considering Ryan is close to Gammons in
respective sports reporting prestige (basketball, baseball) his
statements seem noteworthy.
On the same day I see an ESPN bullet on the subject of "Battle of the
Sneaker Giants" - specifically the Jordan (Nike) - Shaq (Reebok)
battle. I didn't see where they had an actual reporting on the subject
or whether it was just a headliner.
It sure seemed awfully familiar.
|
| 10.3086 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon May 08 1995 18:27 | 7 |
|
I loved Reggie Miller's comments after the game, " Well, after
Anthony choked and we fouled Starks and he choked..." The Knicks
gacked up a big old hairball yesterday. Thank goodness. Basket-
ball as we know it could not stand another finals as boring as
last years. Michael, Reggie, Shaq, anybody but the blander than
bland, can't-shoot Knicks and ultra-punk Greg Anthony.
|
| 10.3087 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | Mich fightsong=1bourbon,1scotch &1beer | Mon May 08 1995 18:32 | 4 |
|
It's days like today that really make me miss TC*.
brews
|
| 10.3088 | | MKOTS3::LONG | Spring has sprung, grass has riz | Tue May 09 1995 13:47 | 7 |
| >>It's days like today that really make me miss TC*.
The only problem is that he's a Rangers fan as well, which would
offset his Knocks fanatisism.
billl
|
| 10.3089 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Thu May 11 1995 12:17 | 17 |
|
If Jordan ain't the most superstitous person on the planet than he's
in the top 3. First he has to have his old chair, and now he has to
have his old uniform. For those that missed it Jordan came out wearing
#23 last night. After the stinker on sunday, Nick Anderson comment that
"he could steal the ball from 45 but not from 23". So it looks like
NBA marketing got what they want (45 is now a collector's item) and
Mike's statements about his dad were a hoax..........
oh yeah and the Bulls won 100 something to 90 something.....
Mikey stunk the house out early but didn't miss in the third quarter
after a Patrick Ewing like first half when he was 5-16. Of course when
the game was on the line he didn't miss either. Best clutch player,
best player period.........
mike
|
| 10.3090 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu May 11 1995 13:17 | 8 |
| Does he still were is UNC Shorts underneath his uniform as well ?
So now when he does retire do they re-retire #23 or retire #45 ?
Is he going to continue to where #23 (I hope so) or will he go
back to #45 during/after the playoffs ??????? You'd be surprise
at how superstitous some ball players are...
mab
|
| 10.3091 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 11 1995 14:41 | 10 |
| > If Jordan ain't the most superstitous person on the planet than he's
Superstitious people amaze me, and it's more amazing that someone, whose
skills are so much greater than anyone on the planet, believes in this
crap. Like there's something in that number that's stronger than his
personal strengths.
And what's just as dumb is all of the attention fans and media give to
his switch...and the Magic considering protesting the game because of
it.
|
| 10.3092 | We all have our little superstitions | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu May 11 1995 15:32 | 6 |
| I never consider'd myself to be superstitions but when my Odometer gets
a 666 in it I try not to look at it.... Now thats strange... ????
One of the Guys I work with was born 6/7/66 .....Too close :-)
mab
|
| 10.3093 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu May 11 1995 16:00 | 6 |
| 10.3094 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | | Thu May 11 1995 16:35 | 9 |
|
Some "routines" do have an effect. For example, Bird grabbing his
shoes can be looked at as a simple form of stretching which might make
him shoot better. Maybe by shaving ones head the sweat flows a
different way and doesn't get into the eyes. But a number or socks is
just plain ridiculus.
Marc
|
| 10.3095 | | MKOTS3::LONG | Life is better left to chance. | Thu May 11 1995 16:36 | 15 |
| I think everyone who is a fan/athlete is somewhat superstitious.
I recall one Legion game where our pitcher had gone into the 8th
without giving up a hit. Everyone, who was paying attention,
knew what was happening, but no one dared mention it. That is,
except for the pitcher's little brother. He blurts out, "C'mon,
Brian, only 6 more outs for a no-hitter!"
The youngster was admited to the local emergency room with
multiple cuts and abrasions. Needless to say the next batter
laces a double down the line.
billl
|
| 10.3096 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Thu May 11 1995 17:35 | 7 |
| Top of the sixth in a tournament in New Jersey, we score a run
to get over the 10 run mercy rule. Everyone gives our pitcher
a slap on the back for just pitching a no-hitter. Celebration goes on
for a minute and then umps inform us we have to let the home team
bat (local rule at the time). First guy up gets a hit.........
Jimbo
|
| 10.3097 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 11 1995 18:16 | 12 |
| > Barkley shaves his head before every game.
Maybe that bid ol' lard butt thinks he gains some type of aerodynamic
edge ????
BTW, does anyone else think that the Western Conference teams don't look
as awesome as their regular season records made them out to be ? The
3 and 4 seeds couldn't get out of the 1st round. All top seeds in the
East advanced (technically Char was the #4, but we all know better).
The West's semis will be yawners. The East's will be nail-biters, unless
Chicago takes the next 2 at home.
|
| 10.3098 | West had to play the West | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu May 11 1995 18:25 | 5 |
| 10.3099 | I dont see a clear cut favorite from either league | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu May 11 1995 18:27 | 9 |
| San Antonio seems to be back on track and took the 1st too easily
Have to see if they can take 2 at LA and how they handle the winner
of the Pho/Hou series, but I wouldnt count them out.
The east has 4 good teams left and both series are 1-1 and will be
battles, I still expect both series to be 2-2 after the 2 road games
so it will be intresting.
MaB
|
| 10.3100 | SNARF | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Thu May 11 1995 19:26 | 1 |
| 10.3101 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Fri May 12 1995 12:37 | 9 |
|
Well the "choke-atists" did again. NY blew an 11 point 4th quarter lead
loosing to the Pacers 97-95 in OT. Didn't see the game so I don't have
any real details. Like Joe said earlier if the Knicks are going to win
this year, they're determined to do it the hard way. Chuck shaved his
head to the tune of 30 points last night and the Suns go up 2-0 with
a 114-90 pasting of the Rockets.......
mike
|
| 10.3102 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri May 12 1995 12:48 | 5 |
| 10.3103 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Fri May 12 1995 13:13 | 10 |
| Why is there all this controversy about Michael Jordan wearing his old number
and new shoes? Is the NBA afraid that someone from some other team will be at a
disadvantage because they won't recognize the bald guy wearing number 23 who's
taking off from the top of the key and slam dunking the ball while 8 feet in
the air?
"Honest coach, I was fooled. I had no idea that the guy wearing the black
and white Air Jordan's was on their team".
George
|
| 10.3104 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Fri May 12 1995 13:30 | 24 |
|
RE .3103,
It all comes down to marketing and image. Also believe or not
the NBA does not like to take advantage of us in terms of merchandise.
If Jordan changes his # to start next year. Thousands of kids will buy
his new number. If he changes again, they will buy another jersey with
that number. Which IMO would hurt the image of the NBA a little because
they would be exploiting the kids and making TONS of money.
Also lets say that MJ wears #45 the rest of the playoffs. How much
money is that ONE #23 jersey he wore in the '95 playoffs worth?
Somewhere someone has the last #23 jersey MJ wore during the '93
playoffs. That uniform from the '93 playoffs WAS considered the last
time MJ wore #23 before it was retired. If that uniform was sold at
auction. It isn't worth as much anymore, because MJ has now wore #23 in
a game again.
The little fiasco about the White sneakers is nit picking. However
the Bull's official team uniform consists of Black sneakers. Even
MLB has this rule. Every player is suppose to wear the same color
cleats. It doesn't matter who makes them. If the team color is Red
cleats. Then everybody is suppose to wear Red cleats.
Ron
Ron
|
| 10.3105 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Fri May 12 1995 13:43 | 5 |
|
They other thing I wanted to mention is. When is Patrick Ewing
going to learn that a moving pick is a foul? HA HA HA
Ron
|
| 10.3106 | | HOTLNE::BRIAN | | Fri May 12 1995 14:49 | 9 |
| How come when Micaheal goes against the rules, by doing what he wants,
he's not considered a problem. But, when others like Coleman do it,
they are trashed in the media?
Michael may be a great player, but he is not respecting the league.
All he is considering is how he can market himself.
Brian
|
| 10.3107 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Fri May 12 1995 15:28 | 12 |
| 10.3108 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Fri May 12 1995 15:40 | 17 |
| The NBA has these "virtual" rules, which are instantiated when needed for
players of less diety than the players who live in Valhalla....
Travelling is travelling only once in a while -- like alternating Tuesdays
if it's three days shy of the 3rd quarter of the moon.
How much you can push off depends on what your name is, what team you're
on, and whether or not the ref's tacos are repeating on him.
Moving picks are moving picks for some, and a dynamically static pick for
others....
It's a sham.
'Saw
|
| 10.3109 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Fri May 12 1995 15:42 | 25 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3106 by HOTLNE::BRIAN >>>
> Michael may be a great player, but he is not respecting the league.
> All he is considering is how he can market himself.
The league wins big from Michael coming back to play.
If he generates print by wearing a new number, the league benefits.
If he generates print by wearing his old number, the league benefits.
If he generates print by wearing new shoes the league benefits.
If he generates print by playing barefoot the league benefits.
If he generates print by getting into a battle with the league, the
league benefits.
He he sneezes and scratches his ass, the league benefits.
The league should get down on it's collective knees and kiss the floor that
Michael walks on because where ever he plays, the crows will show up and fork
over the dough.
George
|
| 10.3110 | | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri May 12 1995 15:47 | 6 |
| I understand that MJ did not report to the scorers table with the
change of number. No problem with him changing his number or shoes
but just try and do it within the guidelines. The MAGIC couldn't have
stopped him even if he came out in a Cleveland uniform!!!! BTW how
come MJ has a separate locker room than his team mates???
|
| 10.3111 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Fri May 12 1995 16:16 | 8 |
| Amazing. The league lets MJ take 12 steps without a dribble on the way to the
hoop. And when he does dribble, he palms the ball 90% of the time.
All an opposing player has to do is sneeze within 10 feet of his Airness,
and he gets called for a foul.
But if he changes numbers, it's a big fine.
Keith
|
| 10.3112 | World wide baskets association | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri May 12 1995 16:20 | 18 |
| I notice that the Magic were using college collect-the-charge tactics
and the refs were honoring the charges which is not usually done.
Cousy claims that the player taking the charge has to be out of the
area directly under the basket and even has stated number of feet as
thought it's some kind of rule or legalized interpretation.
Ewing of course uses illegal picks as part of his game, did he get
called for it? I believe he got called once in last year's playoffs
but it doesn't change anything. Also they won't foul out the mega
stars as Spurs knew by playing Robinson with 5 and Magic has Shaq out
too much because of his 4 and 5 fouls. They should have just left him
in and forced the league's/refs hand.
Ironically Reebok advertising is heavy in what I've seen so far so I'd
guess Bulls-Magic will see seven; I'd bank on that one. Maybe Hill
doesn't see the nba as a marketer's setup and is trying to play it
straight, if so they'd better get rid of him quick or Magic will never
go anywhere in postseason.
|
| 10.3113 | | HOTLNE::BRIAN | | Fri May 12 1995 18:14 | 2 |
| I read that Saquille tried to change his number a little while back,
through proper guidelines, and was denied by the league.
|
| 10.3114 | Responsibility is with the team, not the player | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Fri May 12 1995 18:41 | 8 |
| All the Bulls had to do before the game was notify the official scorer
of the change in the number. It could be done at any time before
tapoff. It is NOT up to the player to do it, but the team. If Michael
went to the table and told the scorer he was wearing #23, the scorer
should then have immediately confirmed that from Phil Jackson or his
representative, or Jordan could not have played in the game.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3115 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri May 12 1995 20:15 | 3 |
| 10.3116 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Mon May 15 1995 12:23 | 18 |
|
Geez the so called "Superboy" played more like "Supergirl" yesterday.
Maybe Rebook told Shaq take it easy we want this one to go 7....
Ther Suns are lucky that the Rockets are stupid and Clyde pulled one
of his disappearing acts like in Portland. When you got a weapon like
Akeem and shoot 3 pointers down the stretch in a tight one you
deserve to loose. Spurs won't win it all without Rodman. Tough
posistion for Hill. If you let Rodman drift it doesn't look good to
his teammates but it's tough to bench and crackdown on a guy who gives
it his all when he's on the floor.
for those without access, Bulls, Suns and Spurs won yesterday.
current series standings: Spurs 3-1, Pacers 3-1, Suns 3-1, Bulls 2-2
Also I think Joe owes Horace Grant an apology ;^)
mike
|
| 10.3117 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 15 1995 12:41 | 19 |
| Without Grant Orlando GOES NOWHERE... This guy NAILSS every Jumper from
18-20 Feet and is an awsome rebounder. Not to mention that he seems
more like the playmaker/leader on the floor then Shaq or hardaway.
They should double his salary, he should be making more then shaq or
penny based on performance/team value.
And for those that keep whining about MJ/Shaq and the rest of the
stars getting away with murder, you should try watching the games
rather then just assuming and whining. MJ been hacked quite a few
times goine down the lane with no calls, he even got called for
traveling in game 3. There Keeping shaq honest and have called him
for traveling a few times as well.
Id like to see some of you ref and NBA game and see how many calls you
miss.
The series is gonig how I expected, tied up at 2...
Mike
|
| 10.3118 | kj the real thunder on that Suns team | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon May 15 1995 17:35 | 10 |
| One guy I can't fathom is this Dan Thunder Majerle. Why isn't he
simply released and left to his restaurant business? In fact why
doesn't he retire while leaving at least the semblance of being a star
although he was exposed badly in '93.
On the other hand KJ is absolutely the real thing, a purely talented
guard who is what Stockton and others are talked about being. He
seemed to be the whole key to Phoenix yesterday in the first half. I
don't know about second half except I was a little surprised that
Phoenix was able to win.
|
| 10.3119 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon May 15 1995 17:42 | 11 |
| > Also I think Joe owes Horace Grant an apology ;^)
Never. When was his last double-double in the playoffs ? Who's Orlando
got to cover him ? Hey, my opinion of Grant is based on the previous 3
years against Oakley. He was placed on the All-Star team ahead of Oak,
and generally regarded as the better player, yet when they went head-to-head,
Grant disappeared (until last year's semis, when he took his game to the
perimeter and shot J's).
Didn't see yesterday's game, so I can't comment on his performance. But
didn't he have a 7-pt, 3-reb Game 1 ?
|
| 10.3120 | The Only Player from Orlando worth Talking about | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 15 1995 18:02 | 15 |
| His last Double Double was lets see... Yesturday
He was 9 for 11 from the field with 21pts (3-4 from the FTL) with 13
rebounds. He's averaging 11.5 boards a game and has hit for an
incredible .580% from the field averagin 14pts per game... SO he's
averaging over a double double in 8 playoff games this year.
Not sure what more you could ask from this guy, actually I do, PLEASE
BE A BULL :-). Also AGAIN He seems like the ONLY TRUE leader on the
floor PLUS he knows the BULLS system and if they would listen to him
Im sure they would improve as a team (At least vs Chicago).
Orlado - grant = Exit 1st round
MaB
|
| 10.3121 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 15 1995 18:05 | 6 |
| Actually that 14pts per game is only for his FG Im not sure what
he's scored from the line, he's 54-93 from the field so 108pts in
8 games (14pts per game) so with FT's he has to be up around 17 or
18 per game...
mab
|
| 10.3122 | Still anyone's championship to win | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Mon May 15 1995 18:46 | 11 |
| Two comments about the playoffs so far:
1) PLEASE no more comparisons of Penny Hardaway with Magic Johnson.
That is a total insult to Magic and unfair to Hardaway, who is a
pretty good player but shows nowhere near the court smarts or
leadership ability of Magic.
2) KJ has played in nine playoff gamesd and hasn't gotten injured yet!
WOW!!! I predict he won't make it though game 5 vs Houston.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3123 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Mon May 15 1995 18:59 | 5 |
|
Speaking of KJ, why does he have that snarl on his face? Is he upset
that he's only five foot two?
mike
|
| 10.3124 | I don't get it | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon May 15 1995 19:35 | 6 |
| Why KJ? Bird was constantly beset by nagging injuries as well as
Parrish and McHale. When he's playing he's an awesome player and
doesn't do it with mirrors like some of the others.
In fact Nazz has the right idea - pick on the ultra overrated Hardaway
or as earlier noted powder puff Majerle.
|
| 10.3125 | Camby staying I see | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon May 15 1995 19:39 | 6 |
| btw - I see Camby is staying, says he'd like to go 1 or 2 next year
rather than as low as 7 in the herd declaring this year.
I still am in the dark about players declaring then playing and the
team that drafts them - I assume they remain the property of the
drafting team for a year and a day or whatever.
|
| 10.3126 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Mon May 15 1995 19:45 | 6 |
|
I'm not picking on KJ. I think he's one of the best points in the
league. I just don't understand why he looks like he's never having
any fun despite torching a team for 43.........
mike
|
| 10.3127 | FOCUS | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Mon May 15 1995 20:10 | 1 |
| 10.3128 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon May 15 1995 20:33 | 6 |
| > I still am in the dark about players declaring then playing and the
> team that drafts them - I assume they remain the property of the
> drafting team for a year and a day or whatever.
I'm sure I read that the drafting team retains the rights to that player
until his class graduates.
|
| 10.3129 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Money + Boredom = MJ | Mon May 15 1995 20:50 | 13 |
|
As long as a player doesn't have an agent. He has 30 days after
he is drafted. To decide to return to school or not. This is what
Kevin Garnett is planning on doing. Some experts are saying he will
be picked in the top 10. Others say he wont' go until late first round.
If he is a top 10 pick look for him to skip college. If he goes late
first round, look for him to attend college. The team who drafts him
will retain his rights. For 1 full year after his college class
graduates. So if he attends college this fall, I believe it is
considered the class 1999. So the team will hold his rights until Draft
day 2000.
Ron
|
| 10.3130 | Converting the heathens in Phoenix | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Tue May 16 1995 13:26 | 3 |
| Re. a few back: I didn't know KJ was a Mormon!
NAZZ
|
| 10.3131 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue May 16 1995 14:44 | 6 |
| 10.3132 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Wed May 17 1995 11:13 | 18 |
|
Magic 103 Bulls 95
Grant 24 points 11 rebounds
Shaq 23 points 22 rebounds
Scott 22 5 three pointers
Penny 19 points 11 assists
Mikey 39 points for naught
Lakers 98 Spurs 96 in OT
Van Exel hit a three pointer with 0.5 ticks on the clock to win it...
Rockets 103 Suns 97 in OT
no details
mike
|
| 10.3133 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 17 1995 14:16 | 6 |
| > Grant 24 points 11 rebounds
Didn't see the game, but every highlight of one of his baskets was
a dunk off a feed from a double-teamed Shaq. Which raises a good
question: Could Horace Grant score if he didn't play on a team with
a superstar to draw the defense's attention ???
|
| 10.3134 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Wed May 17 1995 14:43 | 4 |
|
could Oakley?
mike
|
| 10.3135 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Wed May 17 1995 16:04 | 6 |
|
Does anyone know if my man Rodman played last night?
If Chris Ford has been fired yet?
mike
|
| 10.3136 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Wed May 17 1995 16:17 | 8 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3135 by CNTROL::CHILDS "Harry Browne in 96" >>>
> If Chris Ford has been fired yet?
Last night on WBZ radio 1030 they said that M.L. Carr was meeting with the
owners to discuss those types of things.
George
|
| 10.3137 | ex | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed May 17 1995 16:17 | 5 |
|
Yup Rodman played. He kind of hurt them at the very end when
he and Robinson both went after a rebound and neither of them
came away with it. Van Exel ended up with it and launched a humbug
that won the game.
|
| 10.3138 | Definitely worth staying up for! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Wed May 17 1995 16:36 | 16 |
| Two of the most exciting games I've seen in quite a while. Nick Van
Exel is simply amazing - what cahunas on this guy! He's 0-5 from
3-point land for the game, but nail a long 3-pointer to send the game
into OT, then hits a running 3-pointer off a scramble with 0.5 seconds
left to win it for the Lakers. This is after LA wentg almost ten (yes,
10!!!) minutes without a field goal in the 4th quarter.
SOmething similar happoened to the winning team in Phoenix. The
Rockets didn't score for the last five minutes or so in regulation
until Hakeem hit in the final seconds to send the game into OT, but
the Suns kept going 0-2 and 1-2 at the foul line (Barkley was 1-6 from
the line). Chucky Brown and Mario Elie came up big for Houston as
Clyde Drexler hardly played at all due to a stomach virus that had him
being fed intavenously before the game.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3139 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 17 1995 17:20 | 5 |
| > could Oakley?
No, but Oakley is definitely the better rebounder, and IMO, the better
defensive player. He doesn't need to score to have an impact on the
game. IMO, Grant does.
|
| 10.3140 | Spurs choked too | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed May 17 1995 17:20 | 1 |
| 10.3141 | ex | CNTROL::CHILDS | Harry Browne in 96 | Wed May 17 1995 17:26 | 8 |
|
I don't have stats to go by but imo rebounding is a wash, both do it
well both offensive and defensive boards. Grant's the better scorer
and while Oakley maybe a more creative passer, he also throws more
away than Grant. Defensively neither is a slouch so again a wash
imo. Summing it up Grant's the better play...........
mike
|
| 10.3142 | Knick fan pins hopes on Oakley, laugh track at seven | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed May 17 1995 17:31 | 12 |
| Oakley 10 years ago would be a comparison with Grant today, I'd still
take Grant. Oakley shouldn't even be starting on the knicks or getting
more than 20 minutes a game. He does very little out there.
Jackson and Chicago aren't completely stupid, they had a choice of
Grant or Oakley and let the lesser go.
I'd be more interested in Grant as league mvp arguments than comparing
him to Oakley. Grant is the only forward who's presence on any other
club would make them the favorite, possibly the only player. Oakley on
the other hand (it could be said) could sit out and make the knicks
tougher because his minutes would go to Mason and Bonner.
|
| 10.3143 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Wed May 17 1995 18:03 | 6 |
|
I don't know Billte. Oakley does keep the 6' 3" guards from kicking the
crap out of Patrick after he throws one of those moving picks.......
;^)
|
| 10.3144 | what a pair!! | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | If it ain't fixed, don't break it | Wed May 17 1995 18:08 | 5 |
|
re 3138
Nazz what are cahunas? Could you be refering to cajones.
|
| 10.3145 | Always polite to get clarifiactions in matters like this | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks for a great year UMass! | Wed May 17 1995 18:34 | 3 |
| Cahunas are a northerstern version of cajones.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3146 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Wed May 17 1995 18:38 | 11 |
| > -< Always polite to get clarifiactions in matters like this >-
>
> Cahunas are a northerstern version of cajones.
And because I alway get corrected on this, the correct spelling of the
word is
cojones
hth,
'Saw
|
| 10.3147 | over-rated, IMO | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 17 1995 19:17 | 31 |
| > I don't have stats to go by but imo rebounding is a wash,
I'm sure this isn't the case when comparing season averages, and Grant
NEVER out-rebounded Oakley head-to-head.
> and while Oakley maybe a more creative passer,
IMO, Oakley is the worst passer in the league, regardless of position.
I can't believe how many times he throws it away.
And Billte, I'm not pinning any hopes on Oakley. He's past his prime,
and Checketts may have finally made a SMART move by holding the line
and NOT giving Oak a contract extention. And I share your opinion that
he should be coming off the bench, and that's where he better be next
year.
If you had read my first comment on Oak-Grant, I clearly stated that my
opinion of Grant was formed during the 3 years he and Oak went head-to-head
in the playoffs (the same 3 years that they were frequently compared).
The only year Grant was even a factor was last year, when he took it
outside and started shooting 15' jumpers. He was never a rebounding
factor in those series.
To mention Grant and MVP in the same sentence is ridiculous. He doesn't
dominate in any SINGLE phase of the game. And Jackson's decision not to
guard him up to this point of the series speaks volumes. Anyone 6'10"
and not guarded should be able to get 20 pts. His greatest skill is
his ability to hit medium-range jumpers...not a prime requirement for
a power forward in the NBA.
|
| 10.3148 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed May 17 1995 19:47 | 12 |
| Well I only watch in bits and pieces, what I see is Grant getting the
key rebounds and big baskets. I'll also state an Oakley for Grant
trade would make the knicks a favorite and doom Orlando.
You have a point in that the nba teams seem to all double team one or
two players and offense and defense works off the adjustments. Grant
is one beneficiary of that but he also seems to be able to play within
the boundaries of the game strategy - pass or shoot, get open, go for
offensive rebound; this is a talent in itself.
Now if the Orlando team with Grant goes all the way vs out in 3 and the
only difference is Horace what's the verdict - Reebok's advertising?!!
|
| 10.3149 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed May 17 1995 20:16 | 11 |
|
re: grant only difference between 3 and out and next round
How about free throws down the stretch? Makes a big difference. How
about one more year of experience for a young team?
Is Grant a factor? Yes. Is he a big factor? Yes. Is he the reason?
No.
Marc
|
| 10.3150 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Wed May 17 1995 21:11 | 2 |
| 10.3151 | I've almost got Mikey convinced | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed May 17 1995 21:15 | 14 |
| But what I'm saying is
Orlando minus Grant - out in three
Orlando with Grant - right now in the driver's seat
What else do magic have they didn't have last year. Attitude, focus?
this also can be attributed to grant.
But don't undersell those advertising bucks that Reebok has thrown in
lately, I'm getting more and more convinced that my sneaky,sneaker
theory is holding water
billte
|
| 10.3152 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed May 17 1995 23:02 | 21 |
|
billte,
You can't really believe what you are saying can you? Orlando - Grant
means they don't win game 1 of the Boston series. Give me a break, 47
points is a total team thing, not a single person thing. So ignoring
everything else, you should at LEAST be saying out in four.
However, I don't suppose you noticed Shaq's playoff FT percentage (even
higher in the last two minutes of a game). If he shot that percentage
last year, they win 2 out of 3 of those Indiana games. How about Nick
Anderson and Hardaways improved play. I'm talking about "making the
right decision" kind of stuff. The type of thing that comes from
experience.
Do I think Orlando would be up 3-2 in the second round without Grant?
Nope, but I do think they would have won at least one game and maybe
even the first series without him.
Marc
|
| 10.3153 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu May 18 1995 11:10 | 3 |
| 10.3154 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu May 18 1995 11:12 | 7 |
| 10.3155 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu May 18 1995 11:25 | 5 |
|
or Starks' never dribbling before making the pass to Ewing. Also
the 6th foul on Mckey was bogus. Refs again drag NY along........
mike
|
| 10.3156 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu May 18 1995 11:29 | 2 |
| 10.3157 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu May 18 1995 11:52 | 4 |
|
yeah, if they're playing the Lakers..........
;^)
|
| 10.3158 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Largato SS-371, In Memoriam | Thu May 18 1995 12:20 | 9 |
| Man, did Ewing look like he was playing hop-scotch or doing the Curly shuffle
on his way to the hoop for the final basket last night or what?
He took more steps than they're taking in Zaire to prevent the spread of that
virus....
'Saw
|
| 10.3159 | Brown > Riley | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Thu May 18 1995 13:06 | 14 |
|
>> Patrick Ewing saved the Knicks from elimination last night
>> with his drop step, hop step, shuffle, no dribble drive
>> basket in the lane with under two seconds to go.
Actually, he did dribble in between his achey-breaky dance
steps. It really was a blatant travel but I thought NY was
getting the short end of the calls all night especially in
the fourth. Harper had a clean strip that was called a foul.
Smith was mugged and got no call. Riley doesn't seem to know
how to work the refs. Probably because he never had to in LA
because Magic knew how and usually didn't even have to.
|
| 10.3161 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu May 18 1995 13:35 | 18 |
| Espn had the hightlights and it looked like an anything goes kind of
fourth quarter which is probably fairer than the refs stepping in like
they did one year with a McHale tip taken away.
Ewing as he even said did the Jordan "travel" which is a combination of
the possession dribble and a liberal pivot foot interpretation.
Believe it or not it (traveling or no) was still subject to
interpretation. What was obvious traveling was a Smit move to the
basket but since it was followed by an obvious goal tend that evened
up.
It looked like Miller wasn't whinning in the postgame interview, he
another victim from last year of ref's whimsy probably prefers the
everything goes style and knew he could have won it with better 3pt
shooting.
Knick guards have to go after loose rebounds not stand around and
watch.
|
| 10.3162 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu May 18 1995 13:38 | 7 |
|
you're tied with a few others after the first round. Of the 4 people
you're tied with 2 have the same picks as you for the second round,
one person's already minus 1 cause they have Utah and the other has
Indiana and Houston.........
mike
|
| 10.3163 | another opinion | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 18 1995 13:42 | 9 |
| > or Starks' never dribbling before making the pass to Ewing. Also
> the 6th foul on Mckey was bogus. Refs again drag NY along........
C'mon Mike, I didn't make as big a deal about the no-call on Miller
when he pushed Anthony to the floor and stole the ball in Game 1...
or the phantom fouls on Ewing in Game 3 that caused him to miss the
end of what should have been a win. Game 1 will prove to cost them
the series. Game 3 was their chance to get it back. The refs clearly
are not dragging NY along.
|
| 10.3164 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri May 19 1995 14:53 | 13 |
| Wow ! Not a single entry in here or in BOSTON_CELTICS !! What gives ?
As *goes* Jordan, so *goes* the NBA ?? Is there no one out there as shocked
as I am to see that Orlando beat the JordanBulls ?....in six ????....wrapping
it up on the JordanBulls' home floor ???....scoring the last 14 points of the
game after being down by 8 ????
This definitely restores my faith in the NBA. Of all the professional
sports, I really had my doubts about this one. Jordan brings millions
back to the sport in 2 months and now he's GONE. I just can't believe
it.
Can the NBA swallow an Indiana-San Antonio Finals ??? Finals ratings
should continue to fall........
|
| 10.3165 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri May 19 1995 15:02 | 5 |
| 10.3166 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri May 19 1995 15:20 | 6 |
| > What story is there to tell. Jordan choked again late. Orlando
> is the real deal,
Well, the "real deal" had the worst road record among playoff teams,
and everybody who's anybody had the JordanBulls in The Finals.
That's the story.
|
| 10.3167 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri May 19 1995 16:09 | 3 |
|
Not me!!!
|
| 10.3168 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri May 19 1995 16:51 | 7 |
| 10.3169 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Fri May 19 1995 17:04 | 8 |
|
> Can the NBA swallow an Indiana-San Antonio Finals ??? Finals ratings
> should continue to fall........
An Indiana-San Antonio Finals is the only one I'm likely to bother
to watch at all, personally...
Joe
|
| 10.3170 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri May 19 1995 17:39 | 7 |
| > Not me!!!
Sorry Chappy, but you're nobody ! :^)
I'm talking about the NBA analysts, coaches, etc. Most expected/predicted
the JordanBulls to make The Finals.
|
| 10.3171 | Gotta admit, a good place for it | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri May 19 1995 18:28 | 13 |
| Well ol' Luc Longley was there for the denoument again this year. This
guy can't handle the big time crunch and Jackson is so entranced in his
Zen that he can't see what's apparent to all.
Sometimes I think coaches get enamored of what goes on in practice and
fans can be more realistic because we only see results. I'm afraid the
Jordan,Cartwright,Grant,Pippen,Paxson tandem spoiled and overrated
Jackson.
Maybe the knicks will work a trade of Riley for Jackson. Maybe as they
pass each other in Cleveland they can have marathon talks on philosophy
and the conceptual architecture of the 48 minutes experience and
championships of yesteryear never to be repeated.
|
| 10.3172 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Fri May 19 1995 20:46 | 14 |
|
re luc
Luc was fouled on that botched layup but if he had gone
up like someone who wasn't wearing panty hose, it wouldn't
have been a problem. And for once Groaner was right. Michael's
timing was way off. Hardaway abused him at the beginning of
the game and offensively Michael was never a factor missing
several easy shots and turning it over numerous times. Even
with a full season of Mikey, it's questionable whether the
Bulls have the talent to win it all even in the diluted NBA.
There most effective lineup last night was the scrub team.
BTW - where's M_Air B?
|
| 10.3173 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Sat May 20 1995 02:30 | 3 |
| 10.3174 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Sun May 21 1995 22:28 | 15 |
|
Bye Bye Mighty Suns....Houston 115-114 in game 7. Danny Ainge maybe 2nd
behind Kareem in all time playoff games played but he's got to be ahead
of him in losses.........
Pacers were leading by 6 when I left for work, sure hope they hold on.
draft order: Warriors, Clippers, Sixers, Bullets, Twolves 2 new teams
Pistons, Nets, Heat, Bucks, Mavs, and Kings, I believe. Interesting
how it was down to 4 teams yet Costas knew that the Warriors and
Sixers were in the final 3......but it'd not fixed.
;^)
mike
|
| 10.3175 | I think I got it right | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Mon May 22 1995 11:52 | 58 |
| Well it's down to four Players:
MikeyC wins if Indiana beats Houston in the finals.
Boss wins it if Orlando wins it all.
Ron Erickson wins it if it's Magic/Spurs final or if Houston beats the Magic.
Vinny Silvestri wins it on all other combos.
Possible final totals: Vinny - 54, Ron - 50, Boss - 40, MikeyC - 34.
I realize some of you can finish with higher totals tham Boss or myself
but even if you do Vinny or Ron will beat you. Boss and I are alive still
because we don't have the Spurs to win it all.
Player Champ 1st rnd after 2nd rnd
---------------------------------------------------------
Drew Garry Jazz 12 20
Bill Breen Knicks 10 10
Chappy Knicks 12 20
UMDan Spurs 12 16
Karen Derry Spurs 14 22
Ron Erickson Spurs 10 22
Mike Fowler Suns 12 20
R_T_G Suns 14 18
Paul Gronowski Spurs 10 18
TTom Suns 12 24
Joe Huber Cavs 4 8
Joe Garbarino Knicks 14 18
MAir Bulls 12 16
MikeyC Pacers 6 14
Mike Heiser Suns 10 10
Nazz Spurs 12 20
Vinny Silvestri Spurs 14 26
Boss Magic 12 20
Jerry Heath Bulls 12 16
Patrick Roosen Suns 14 22
mike
|
| 10.3176 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Mon May 22 1995 12:56 | 11 |
|
Mike,
Costas knew for the same reason that a number of people knew. The
lottery is for the top three picks only. After that it is done by how
they finished. For example, by record Sacremento should have picked
last of the lottery eligible teams. If the Kings are not the 13th team
(or the first team mentioned) then we know they have a top 3 pick.
Marc
|
| 10.3177 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Mon May 22 1995 13:40 | 8 |
|
No Marc because the Sixers and Warriors were not amoungst the worst
3....Certainly not the Warriors anyways because when they announced
the t-wolves as 5 th he said that the Warriors had moved up.....
mike
|
| 10.3178 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Mon May 22 1995 13:42 | 4 |
| Mikey for a coffee I'll sit down and explain this phenomenon
called the draft to you.....8*)
Jimbo
|
| 10.3179 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Mon May 22 1995 13:54 | 17 |
|
Mike,
Let me try again. 11 teams enter the lottery with weighted odds due to
their regular season finish. We then pull balls out of the cylinder
until 3 different teams have been selected. These three teams get
picks 1,2 and 3. The lottery is now done and the rest of the teams
draft in the order of regular season finish.
The warriors had the 5th (I think) worst record. So when their team
name was not mentioned in the 5th envelope, it MUST follow that they
have a top three pick (they can't get 4th).
If that doesn't do it, then take the offer for some coffee 8^)
Marc
|
| 10.3180 | | CSLALL::BRULE | Was there life before ESPN? | Mon May 22 1995 15:34 | 4 |
| Where did Detroit end up? According to the globe if there pick was
higher then #8 the Spurs get the pick.
Mike
|
| 10.3181 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Mon May 22 1995 15:43 | 5 |
|
yeah I got it. I got it after I replied and then reread your first
reply. Bottom line though is I still think it's fixed.........
mike
|
| 10.3182 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon May 22 1995 16:06 | 16 |
|
You'd have to go back to the 70s to find a time when there
were this many good and great big men in the league. The final
four teams have four of the best five centers in the game. Then
there's Ewing who got knocked out yesterday and the other good
ones who got knocked out earlier like Mourning and Mutumbo.
Not since the era of Wilt and Kareem and Reed and Lanier and
Cowens and Unseld and Thurmond has there been such great post
play night in and night out during the playoffs. As diluted as
the talnets is across the league that there will be such collosal
battles in the paint is one of the few saving graces.
MIkeyH, tough loss, dude. And you were right about KJ. That was
as impressive a performance as I've ever seen. If he developed a
consistent jumper he'd be completely unstoppable. But you were
wrong about Majerle. He's been a stiff from the word go.
|
| 10.3183 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Mon May 22 1995 17:33 | 1 |
| 10.3184 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | Mich fightsong=1bourbon,1scotch &1beer | Mon May 22 1995 18:07 | 5 |
|
I think NBC's four favorites losted evey series in this last round.
They gotta be crappin their pants.
brews
|
| 10.3185 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | Mich fightsong=1bourbon,1scotch &1beer | Mon May 22 1995 18:10 | 10 |
| > MikeyC wins if Indiana beats Houston in the finals.
> Boss wins it if Orlando wins it all.
> Ron Erickson wins it if it's Magic/Spurs final or if Houston beats the
> Magic.
> Vinny Silvestri wins it on all other combos.
I still got a chance in this? Do I just pull for the Magic, or does it
gotta be Magic/Rockets for me to win? 2 & 3 are contradictary.
brews
|
| 10.3186 | Im still here, Bulls/Jordan Sipped, Best team won | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Mon May 22 1995 18:49 | 36 |
| OK The Doctor's were finally able to revive me after watching Orlando
score 14pts down the stretch to Chicago's 0000000000000 pts.
YES Longley was fouled on that layup, but it should have been a dunk
and the refs were being very (VERY) lenient on the fouls (BOTH WAYS).
JORDANRULES are over, at least 10 times in the 4rth qtr jordan was
TOUCHED hard enough to draw a foul and he got NO CALLS, so all you anti
jordan/bulls fans can quit you yapping the refs called an even game and
the better team won. (No Surprise there). Jordan was too tired and
Phil should have MADE him REST more then 45 seconds between QTR's. The
Bulls STUNK DOWN the stretch and when you have an orlando team that
head to head beats Chicago outright in 3 positions and maybe 4 plus has
a stronger bench Orlando should win every time. The Jordan Factor isnt
enough (It wasnt early in his carear and wont be down the stretch
either). Kukoc is a BUM, the still hae NO CENTER WHY longley was in
over PURDUE is only known by PHIL.
Orlando is the real DEAL, but Grant In Chicago would have Bulls VS
Pacers in the FINALS... Orlando WOULD NOT BE HERE WITHOUT GRANT. Just
as jordan may have went RINGLESS without him (or pippen). 1 man teams
dont go anywhere... Yes Orlando without shaq would be a lottery team
but he can't do it alone...
INDIANA, Thank you thank you thank you thank you... I could not have
watched a Ewing/Shaq eastern final and if I had to look at john starks
one more time I think I would have to KILL HIM :-)
PHOENIX ... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
BAAAA HAAA BAA HAAA (GASP FOR AIR).... Talk about the ULTIMATE
CHOKE JOB.... Should have been over in 5, this team is a JOKE all
the talant money can bye/hide and still NO RINGS FOR BARKLEY...
Add Barkley and Ewing's names to a list of VERY TALANTED RINGLESS
PLAYERS...
MairB
|
| 10.3187 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Mon May 22 1995 19:07 | 9 |
|
If Orlando wins it all you win. If it's a Magic/Spurs in the finals and
the Spurs win then Ron wins it. If it's Magic/Houston and Houston wins
then Ron wins because he'll be ahead of you and Vinny on total points.
If it's Indiana/Spurs then Vinny wins, if it's Indiana/Houston and
Houston wins then Vinny and it's Indiana/Houston and Indiana wins I
beat Vinny on the first tiebreaker which is picking the correct champ.
mike
|
| 10.3188 | Joe Smith goes #1 | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Mon May 22 1995 19:20 | 23 |
| Seven-of-eight in the first round and four-for-four in the second
round ... not too bad! :-)
Leave it to the Lakers to mess up my track record ... now if I had
actually bet on my predictions ...
Spurs should win their series ... they match up well with Houston
and took four of the five regular season games ... as long as
Rodman can keep his cool they should make the finals ... Houston
has been on an incredible streak, winning something like nine
consecutive games in which they have faced elimination, Hakeem
and good fortune can only carry them so far ... Indiana
will have a tougher go of it, Orlando is playing well now and they
seem to have grown up quite a bit the past few weeks ... they are
already much more seasoned and experienced than they were after
losing at home to Boston ... the injury to Dale Davis could really
hurt the Pacers, they need his presence on the boards ...
So much of the NBC / NBA fix ... Boston, NY, LA, Chicago all
eliminated ... all the "big tv markets" are gone, we have two Texas
teams, Disneyland and mid-America left ...
Vinny
|
| 10.3189 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Where is the grass greener? | Mon May 22 1995 19:27 | 5 |
|
Well I don't remember who I picked in what round. Since I still
have a chance to win. I must have picked okay.
Ron
|
| 10.3190 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Mon May 22 1995 19:34 | 4 |
| 10.3191 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Mon May 22 1995 19:53 | 5 |
|
Actually Vinny you had Chicago in the second round so 3 out 4 but still
10 out 12 series for an 833 winning percentage.
mike
|
| 10.3192 | | ONOFRE::MAY_BR | Mich fightsong=1bourbon,1scotch &1beer | Mon May 22 1995 20:49 | 9 |
| <<< Note 10.3187 by CNTROL::CHILDS "JJS the BucketsMaster" >>>
>If Orlando wins it all you win.
Great!! I've been a Magic fan at least as long as Mab has been a Bulls
fan. The only thing left to do is mount a poster of Shaq on my bedroom
ceiling and stock up on cheese-whiz.
BaM
|
| 10.3193 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Mon May 22 1995 21:59 | 1 |
| 10.3194 | Some mustard on that hotdog... | BUMP::MMARLAND | | Tue May 23 1995 13:46 | 13 |
| We'll seems old Worm Rodman is up to his old tricks again. Up 1 with 20 + seconds
and he sits out the huddle on the defensive timeout. His man comes out and hits
a 12 footer wide open jumper. This guy is a waste to have around. I'd just dump
him right now, better send him to NJ to keep Derek Coleman company.
Do you think Chuck Daly would have taken his antics this long, during the
Pistons reign at the top. Don't think so...
Johnny Most must be rolling in his grave watching this stuff.
Mike
|
| 10.3195 | | DELNI::FORGET | | Tue May 23 1995 13:57 | 12 |
|
Dennis"the Worm"Rodman, just don't understand this guy. The game was
the Spurs. Dennis goes into his take off sneakers, towel over the head
action. TNT interview him right after the game. he basicly said, he
didn't know why he was taking out of the game. I won't blame Rodman,
for the lost. Robinson had a bad shooting night. It's the team that
wins or loses. one play doesn't do it, but Rodman's guy wide open
didn't help. i expect Rodman not to play. Coach Hill's idea on
punishment.
|
| 10.3196 | grow up worm | BUMP::MMARLAND | | Tue May 23 1995 14:59 | 7 |
| Games are won on both ends of the floor. When you need a Stop and D and your
best guy is off pouting then , it ruins the concetration and drive of the other
players, he should have his fist in saying let's do it now. So the other players
shoot poorly you can still win hte game with Defense. rebounds help in
winning, but aren't counted in the final score.
Dennis grow up.
|
| 10.3197 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | the dumbing down of America | Tue May 23 1995 16:31 | 2 |
| 10.3198 | Step up to the line | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Tue May 23 1995 17:09 | 17 |
| Some players step up their game at crunch time, others shy away
from the big moments ... the "superstars" (Bird, Magic, etc)
all step up their games and look to take the big shot at the end
of the game ... win or lose, they WANT the ball at the end, they
WANT the responsibility to decide the game ... then there are
the other players, the good players who turn into big time go to guys
when the money is on the line ... Cedric Maxwell and his "hop on my
back boys" ... on the other side of the coin are the guys who play
well early in the game, but slip into the shadows when the game
gets close at the end ... that was Sean Elliot last night ... Sean
scored 20+ points (most early in the game), but late in the
fourth quarter he couldn't pull the trigger on a wide open jumper
and then he missed TWO free throws ... looks like Sean needs a
shot of self confidence ...
Vinny
|
| 10.3199 | Give me Maxwell in clutch over Bird any day | AKOCOA::BREEN | Indians rule,sox sip; Phillip is six | Tue May 23 1995 17:16 | 11 |
| Is this Cedric Maxwell implied criticism part of the Celtic handbook
they give to season ticket holders or better yet stockholders. Maxwell
until he was injured was always they in crunch time. He just happened
to be the sacrificed one when the payroll loomed to high and someone
had to go.
To try to preserve their sainted image they leaked this "didn't try
hard enough in rehab baloney" rather than just admit that the team
could only afford so many stars. Dumping high priced talent the minute
it slips it part of sports business since the 60s, only the Celtics try
to call it something else.
|
| 10.3200 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 23 1995 17:56 | 5 |
| > MIkeyH, tough loss, dude. And you were right about KJ. That was
> as impressive a performance as I've ever seen. If he developed a
> consistent jumper he'd be completely unstoppable.
He ain't no classic PG though....he's got too much gunner in him.
|
| 10.3201 | KJ rules | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 23 1995 18:01 | 1 |
| 10.3202 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Tue May 23 1995 18:13 | 10 |
|
KJ may not be a classic PG ( he *never* thinks "pass" off
of the penetration) but there isn't a single team or coach
on the planet that wouldn't love to have him. That aside,
it's kind of funny to see Mike Heiser finally conceding what
most folks in here have said all along - that Westphal is not
a big time coach and that Majerle is a stiff. If Mike comes to
the conclusion that Barkley will never lead a team to a champ-
ionship, I might begin to think that there's hope for him.
|
| 10.3203 | Misinterpreted | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Tue May 23 1995 18:19 | 21 |
| >> Is this Cedric Maxwell implied criticism part of the Celtic handbook
>> they give to season ticket holders or better yet stockholders. Maxwell
>> until he was injured was always they in crunch time. He just happened
>> to be the sacrificed one when the payroll loomed to high and someone
>> had to go.
Exactly what I thought I said ... there was no implied criticism, I was
giving Cedirc big time praise ... Maxwell was a good player who
became a great player at crunch time ... his Finals MVP performance
is testimony of that ... Sean Elliot is the OTHER side of the coin,
a good player who disappears at crunch time ...
And Mike, give the KJ love fest a break ... I was a KJ fan at one
time (on my fantasy league team for years) ... but he is not that
great a player, he is a very good player who does improve his game
in the playoffs (because he gives a 100% in the playoffs, unlike
the regular season) ... when he leads a team to a championship,
then he can move up to the next category ... until then he is just
an Isiah Thomas wanna-be ...
Vinny
|
| 10.3204 | Sorry Vinnie, can't read with that darn fool pname | AKOCOA::BREEN | Indians rule,sox sip; Phillip is six | Tue May 23 1995 18:38 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.3205 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 23 1995 22:07 | 3 |
| 10.3206 | May not be best but in top 3 | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed May 24 1995 17:29 | 8 |
| I know one thing... The Nuggets would love to have KJ as their point
guard. Most every team in the league would want KJ as their point
guard. I suppose you Knick fans are satisfied with your supply of
guards? And btw KJ does look to pass but who on that team is he
going to pass to??? Marjerle, Tisdale, AC, Kleine, Schayes... All
he has are Barkley who is oft injured and Ainge. Remember Manning
was injured...
|
| 10.3207 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 24 1995 17:52 | 8 |
| > And btw KJ does look to pass but who on that team is he
> going to pass to???
I thought Phoenix had the most talent on any team assembled since the
80's Celtics ? Now there's no one on the team worth passing to ?
Johnson is a great scorer when he wants to be. But, he's not a
true point guard. Why is that hard to accept ?
|
| 10.3208 | Pocket Magic | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed May 24 1995 19:18 | 2 |
| 10.3209 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed May 24 1995 19:43 | 4 |
|
Don't get carried away, Mike. He's a great penetrator/scorer
but passing and rebounding aren't his strong suits. KJ's only
thought when he's triple teamed is how to still get his shot off.
|
| 10.3210 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed May 24 1995 20:07 | 5 |
| 10.3211 | your kidding | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed May 24 1995 20:48 | 3 |
| name the star studded players that KJ can pass to other then the
injured Barkley last saturday???
|
| 10.3212 | Nuggets? | AKOCOA::BREEN | Indians rule,sox sip; Phillip is six | Wed May 24 1995 21:00 | 14 |
| Why would the nuggets chase KJ; they have Rauf and Pack and Lafonso
Ellis for next year (the latter not a guard but another from the injury
contingent - also hopefully a Brian Williams for an entire season.
They went head to head with San Antonio and came out second best. In
the playoffs without Rauf (and Pack) and without a completely healthy
Ellis. Rodman and Robinson had great games against them - actually the
best SA - Denver games were at the end of the regular season with the
Nuggets battling for the playoffs.
I don't think the Nuggets want to do anything other than draft well and
trade perhaps Pack or Rauf depending on the strategy (team) they want
to adapt. Rauf is a lot like KJ but without the experience, he's the
only one with that kind of talent (true 1-1 skills).
|
| 10.3213 | cmon Pacers | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu May 25 1995 11:49 | 9 |
|
Rockets go up 2-0 with a 105-98 (I think) victory. Akeem threw down 41
with 13 boards while the Admiral counter with 32 and 10. I'm starting
to have my doubts about Michael being the best player in the league.
I can't find a weakness in Akeem's game and what's I really like is
it's fundamental sound within the rules of the game. He may travel on
occassion but to not the extends of the other superstars in the league.
mike
|
| 10.3214 | Bad news for Nuggets | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Thu May 25 1995 13:39 | 16 |
| >> -< Nuggets? >-
>> Why would the nuggets chase KJ; they have Rauf and Pack and Lafonso
>> Ellis for next year (the latter not a guard but another from the injury
>> contingent - also hopefully a Brian Williams for an entire season.
Just an FYI - Laphonso had surgery on his LEFT knee this off season,
the same surgery he had on his RIGHT knee last year. He will probably
miss the entire 95-96 season and he may never return to his former
level of play. A shame, he was a rising star.
As for Pack, Denver is looking to move him from their roster.
Rauf and Rose will probably be their primary guards next year.
We know return to our "KJ is god - no he isn't" debate ...
Vinny
|
| 10.3215 | Back at ya!! | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Thu May 25 1995 13:55 | 4 |
|
No he isn't
|
| 10.3216 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 25 1995 14:22 | 8 |
| > name the star studded players that KJ can pass to other then the
> injured Barkley last saturday???
You want to limit this discussion to just Saturday's game ??? Oh well....
Ainge, Person, Majerle, Barkley, Green....how many does he need ?
On the Knicks I'd want him to drive every time at crunchtime, but
there are plenty of good shooters on Phoenix' roster.
|
| 10.3217 | NBA never calls it | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 25 1995 15:34 | 8 |
| 10.3218 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 25 1995 15:35 | 5 |
| 10.3219 | Yeah right... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Thu May 25 1995 15:48 | 11 |
| Not being a Suns follower but isn't Person a guard as well as KJ and
Ainge and Majerle. I have followed AC's career (being a lakers fan and
all) and he is no shooting threat. He gets the majority of his points
on follow-ups. We have all acknowleged that Majerle is a stiff come
crunch time. And btw I'm talking about Saturday because that was the
game that eliminated them. There was nobody on the floor aside from
KJ that was a consistent scorer. Barkley couldn't even jump due to
knee problems. It was so bad that Pete Chilcutt blocked one of his
shots!!!! Now when you look at the star studded roster of the Knicks
one has to wonder "What happened"?
|
| 10.3220 | Wrong Person | BUMP::MMARLAND | | Thu May 25 1995 16:50 | 3 |
| Isn't Person on the Spurs...
|
| 10.3221 | Yes, but no | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Thu May 25 1995 17:34 | 5 |
| He's taking about Chuck Person's younger brother Wesley, who is a
rookie with the Suns and was perhaps the biggest steal of last year's
NBA draft, with the SUns getting him with the 23rd pick.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3222 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Thu May 25 1995 17:47 | 11 |
| I guess the past Draft in the PAST DECADE was the 85 draft with
Hakeem going #1 and Jordan #3, I really wanted to see the admiral
in the finals but Hakeem seems to be taking him to school.
Houston VS Orlando will make the NBA EXEC's Happy, Houston/Orlando
can both run/score and will make for an exciting Finals (about the
only 1 left worth watching :-)..)
I still hope Indiana can pull out the miracle but I wouldnt BET on it.
mab
|
| 10.3223 | why even Perry started over KJ in late season for injuries! | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 25 1995 17:55 | 6 |
| 10.3224 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 25 1995 18:12 | 14 |
| I've seen this twice today (in CELTICS too, I think)....
Why is Indiana in deep trouble, and why will it take a miracle to pull
this thing out ? They've lost one game, coming immediately after a
grueling series while the other team had 4 days to prepare/rest. I
remember seeing a stat once that in this situation, the rested team
wins almost every time (obviously Houston excepted). I can't wait to
read the expert opinions tomorrow should Ind win tonight and steal
HCA. And even if it doesn't happen tonight, let's wait 'til Orl
takes one in Ind before declaring this series over.
It's been written that Orl celebrated the win over Chi like it was
the NBA championship. There are still difficult tests coming. Let's
see how they respond.
|
| 10.3225 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu May 25 1995 18:16 | 12 |
| > There was nobody on the floor aside from
> KJ that was a consistent scorer.
Well, if you believe that, then it's amazing they got this far.
> Now when you look at the star studded roster of the Knicks
> one has to wonder "What happened"?
Now what does a comment about KJ having a 2G game more than a PG game
have to do with the Knicks ? I mean, really...."nah-nah-nah-nah-naaahhh-nah".
Now that's meaningful discussion.
|
| 10.3226 | llighten up garb..... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Thu May 25 1995 18:39 | 8 |
| Hey don't be so sensitive... I gues you can poke fun but can't take it
huh? BTW as stated earlier I'm no Suns fan but I wonder at how people
can make the statement that the Suns should have won the whole thing.
They have no Center and an injured Manning, a hobbling Barkley, and
just how old is Ainge???? The Suns do NOT have the talent of either
the Magic or the Rockets. Now had Manning not been injured, then yes
the Suns would have been ONE of the favorites...
|
| 10.3227 | realistic | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu May 25 1995 19:46 | 2 |
| 10.3228 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri May 26 1995 11:43 | 5 |
| 10.3229 | noted exception for a change of pace: KJ | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Fri May 26 1995 12:18 | 13 |
|
You tell em' Paul! Let's see they have a point guard in the top 3 of
his posistion in the league the same with their small forward. Allstars
and former allstars in Green, Tisdale (maybe not) and Slumber.
Experienced backups in Kliene and Ainge and the steal of the draft in
Pearson in a dilutedly talent league and loosing Manning was their
downfall? hahahaaa
While Manning's an excellent player he's not a one-man gang and it they
had the personal to pickup the slack. Why they didn't? Westphal and a
thing called heart would be my choices.......
mike
|
| 10.3230 | NY should trade ewing and give him a chance (Give him to Pho ) | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri May 26 1995 14:32 | 5 |
| So next year the Suns get manning back, barkley retires (only 2 return
with 10 games left in the regular season :-)..) and well be talking
aging about who the biggest CHOKE teams were, Pho or NY :-)
mab
|
| 10.3231 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri May 26 1995 15:26 | 10 |
| > -< NY should trade ewing and give him a chance (Give him to Pho ) >-
Would any team in the league take on an $18M payment for the '95-96 season ?
I doubt it. So just when trading Ewing might even be considered (if you
wanted to rebuild), they probably can't. Another great situation created
by Checketts.
BTW, I heard on that Oakley has a $10M balloon payment due next year too !
It's amazing that Checketts has been promoted... These two balloons,
the Charles Smith contract, the new Starks contract....
|
| 10.3232 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri May 26 1995 16:02 | 3 |
| 10.3233 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri May 26 1995 16:12 | 7 |
| 10.3234 | 18Million, Great deal | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri May 26 1995 18:12 | 7 |
| EWING GETS 18M NEXT YEAR ? That will buy ya ONE NICE RING :-)
So what happens after next year, is that the last year in his contract
is he a free agent ? OAKLEY 10MILLION THATS ONE HELL OF A BARGIN... So
what does starks get 30MILLION FOR WHINING :-)
mab
|
| 10.3235 | the note is due... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 30 1995 13:10 | 6 |
| > EWING GETS 18M NEXT YEAR ?
> OAKLEY 10MILLION THATS ONE HELL OF A BARGIN...
They rewrote these contracts to get "cap money" in prior years (don't ask
me to explain beyond that). It's now time to pay them for their previous
consideration.
|
| 10.3236 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 30 1995 13:15 | 7 |
| Hey, Indiana won its two home games. Very rarely do the two teams win all
of the home games (last year's Knicks-Bulls series). It's time for Indiana
to juice this thing up.
Sorry I missed yesterday's game, but thank God for highlight shows...and
that you can miss the first 47 minutes of most NBA games and catch the only
part that matters in the last ONE.
|
| 10.3237 | Indiana is bringing the MOST excitement to this years payoffs | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue May 30 1995 13:27 | 25 |
| Well Id like to beg all SA/IND Fans forgivness for thinking they would
roll over and die this weekend. The Pacers have now brought me the 2
best games of this years playoffs. Im not sure what was better Game 1
vs the Knicks or game 4 vs Orlando. If you missed it, you missed one
of the best games of the playoffs this year. The REFS were calling all
the fouls (Even on the Superstars) and when shaq backed over and
stepped on smits they actually called the foul on the guilty party SHAQ
even when it was his 6th foul... I WAS AMAZED.
For those that missed it with 13.x seconds left Shaw hit a 3pt shot to
give Orlando a 1pt lead, then after a time out MILLER hit a WILD OFF
BALANCE 3pt shot to take back the lead (and a 2pt lead at that)...
Another timeout with 5.2 seconds left, on the IMBOUND hardaway shoots
and NAILS a 3pt shot going left that was incredible and left only 1.3
seconds on the clock... Another timeout, Indiana works there play and
after coming very close to a 5 second violation inbounds to Rik Smits
who fake's gets TREE ROLLINS in the air ducks under and hits the
winning shot as the buzzer sounded... To me it looked like there was
only like .3 or .5 on the clock when the ball left his hands, Im
talking CLOSE .5 second later and NO SHOT, ORLANDO UP 3-1... BOTH
series are turning out to be GREAT ONE's and Indiana needs to go ALL
OUT in game 5 (as does SA :-)..). Hakeem VS Shaq or The Admiral vs
SHAQ are both intresting series but would prefer to see SMITS :-)
mab
|
| 10.3238 | Fascination with Europeans continues in the NBA | VERBOS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Tue May 30 1995 18:15 | 13 |
| Was anyone else surprised at the section of Jackie McMullin's column
Sunday that dealt with the NBA draft, where she indicated that three
Europeans would be first round picks in the draft this year? I was
certainly stunned, not just because I never heard of these guys
(especially the 19 year old 7-2 Lithuanian), but because it seems to me
that the most highly touted Europeans either don't play over here
(Sabonis) or aren't as good as they are touted (Kukoc). Even if I was
a lower first round team (such as Seattle say), I would look for
immediate help to get me over the top rather than pin my hopes on some
European nonentity who looks good against Estonia but would probably
run and hide rather than battle someone like Charles Oakley.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3239 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 30 1995 18:23 | 3 |
| 10.3240 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Tue May 30 1995 18:24 | 5 |
|
Isn't Sabonis finally coming over? Could have sworn I read that he
was..........
mike
|
| 10.3241 | Sabonis will need his own oxygen tank at every game | VERBOS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Tue May 30 1995 18:37 | 4 |
| Rumor I read was that Sabonis wanted $4 million a year for multiple
years. THis is a guy who makes Acie Earl look agile!
NAZZ
|
| 10.3242 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 30 1995 19:03 | 10 |
| > Supposedly there' some shot blocking 7' stud in Europe that wants to
> play for Phoenix.
Thanks for the 'humor of the day', Mike.
Now "_fill_in_stud's_name_ Wants To Play For Phoenix" goes INTERNATIONAL !!
There's got to be a market here... -> A 2nd NBA team in Phoenix ? They
certainly wouldn't be lacking for all-star-caliber players. Colangelo
could be Exec of the Year for both...Westphal could coach both...and
KJ and Barkley could play for both....AND LOSE TWICE IN THE PLAYOFFS !!!
|
| 10.3243 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue May 30 1995 20:31 | 4 |
| 10.3244 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue May 30 1995 20:38 | 3 |
| > And NY Brick fans have nothing to say about losing in the playoffs.
Well, this one faced the music in ::CELTICS, bright and early on 5/22.
|
| 10.3245 | Indiana owns the Knicks | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Wed May 31 1995 11:18 | 11 |
|
Houston takes game 5. Something like 110-91. Akeem only had 42 with 8
assists and 9 boards. All this after Robinson had supposedly figured
him out. Sam Cassell also threw down 30 for the winners. Meanwhile
Bob Hill would rather be a disciplinarian than a winner. He benched
Rodman at the start of the game for being late to practice the day
before. Bob, you hurt your team more by being a hardass than starting
your best available players. If it's me I put up with Dennis' World
turning my cheek until the playoffs are over and then ship him out.
mike
|
| 10.3246 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Wed May 31 1995 11:28 | 6 |
| 10.3247 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed May 31 1995 13:05 | 11 |
| > Robinson is supposed to be a MAJOR defensive force, yet Akeem
> continues to score at will on this guy.
I've always laughed (a little) when the defensive awards are handed out.
Some of the big guys can't play solid one-on-one defense if their life
depended on it, and it shows up when they have to play someone their
own size and with decent offensive ability. Just 'cause they can block
the little guys' shots doesn't mean they can play defense.
I like David Robinson. He's a great player, a good citizen, intelligent
and well-spoken. But Olajuwon is the best in the game.
|
| 10.3248 | Hakeem is GAWD! | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 31 1995 14:07 | 10 |
| The joke of the Rockets-Spurs series is giving Robinson the MVP afore
the series was over. You almost feel sorry for the Admiral the way Hakeem
is dominating him.
Another factor in this series is that San Antonio has to deal with
Rodman's attitudes and Houston is free from Maxwell. Kenny Smith is
helping the Rockets cause by making sure that Sam Cassell gets a lot of
minutes.
TTom
|
| 10.3249 | Home court disadvantage rules again | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Wed May 31 1995 14:14 | 10 |
| The MVP award is for the regular season, not the playoffs. There is a
separate award for the MVP of the playoffs.
Hard to figure how Rodman sitting out at the beginning of the game
figured in the outcome. The game was 71-71 with two minutes left in
the third quarter. Then Cassell went nuts, Hakeem continued to
dominate, and the Rockets went on an amazing 35-10 burst over the next
10 minutes.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3250 | already hurt the team | HBAHBA::HAAS | terminal delirium | Wed May 31 1995 14:19 | 10 |
| I got no problem with Robinson being the Most Valuable. However, he's
obviously a notch or two below the best.
Rodman's sitting, per se, had little or no effect. The damage had already
been done. He was late, again, for another team function and therein lies
the problem. In the losses, he's been a distraction for the Spurs. In the
two games in Houston, he shut up and played with the team and lo and
behold San Antonio won.
TTom
|
| 10.3251 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed May 31 1995 14:55 | 11 |
| Rodman didn't look like himself last night and SA as a whole played
very lackadaisical. He did seem to play Drexler well and Clyde had his
best moments early when Rodman was out.
Houston seemed to do best in transition a lot of that coming off SA
foolishness. Avery will have to do his Billy Sunday act to get them
going again.
I suppose the other two are at it tonight.
billte
|
| 10.3252 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed May 31 1995 16:43 | 6 |
| 10.3253 | Orlando up, 3-2 | PCBUOA::MORGAN | | Thu Jun 01 1995 11:39 | 5 |
| Well, Shaq was allowed to plow at will through any defender they put on
him last night. I want Indiana to win, but in a way I'd like to see
Orlando win, so we can watch Akeem put on a clinic.
Steve
|
| 10.3254 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 01 1995 11:42 | 9 |
|
Shaq plays pinball with the Indiana frontline and the Magic take
game 5 108-106. Indiana opened up a 12 point first quarter lead
and blew it. Magic opened up a 15 point lead and almost blew it.
Mark Jackson had a chance to tie it with 20 ticks on the clocks
but missed. Rick Smits fouled out. What a difference a home court
makes in this series......
mike
|
| 10.3255 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Where is the grass greener? | Thu Jun 01 1995 13:20 | 2 |
|
Can Shaq hit a 12' jump shot?
|
| 10.3256 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 01 1995 14:20 | 7 |
| > Can Shaq hit a 12' jump shot?
No. At this early stage of his career, his WHOLE GAME revolves around
his bulk/strength and quickness.
I like Larry Brown, but does anyone else think he rests Miller too much ?
|
| 10.3257 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 01 1995 14:30 | 8 |
|
yes Joe, especially with Flyin' Byron being lost out there.
I did enjoy Kite wrestling with Shaq though I thought Shaq
could have caught a few offensives fouls. Oh well Star treatment
for Superboy.......
mike
|
| 10.3258 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Thu Jun 01 1995 14:39 | 1 |
| THE HAMMER
|
| 10.3259 | shame too | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 01 1995 15:30 | 1 |
| 10.3260 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 01 1995 17:38 | 18 |
| > I don't think Brown cares for Reggie too much.
I don't know if this is true. I heard him refer to Miller as the best
pure shooter he's every coached, and one of the *few* players who wants
the ball with the game on the line. I'd love to have him in a Knicks
uniform. Anyone know his contract status ? Hopefully he's a FA after
the '95-96 season. The Knicks will have all kinds of possibilities
after next year. Despite the rumors of *big* changes in Knicksland this
summer, I don't see how they can do it with those 2 balloons due Ewing
and Oak. Can someone tell me if balloon payments count against the cap,
or is the cap just based on the slots the players occupy ?
As for Brown's use of Miller, it just appears that he has this substitution
pattern established and never deviates from it. I think he gave the game
back to Orl in the 2nd when Ind couldn't buy a FG, gave up a 12-point
lead and went into halftime down by 8. You've got have a scorer on the
floor when you get to this point of the playoffs.
|
| 10.3261 | More good salary cap talk | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Thu Jun 01 1995 18:29 | 10 |
| I agree with those who say Brown's substitution pattern is strange.
At one point in the 2nd quarter, he had Workman, Scott, Ferrell,
Mitchell, and ANtonio Davis on the floor. Huh?
As for the question about the balloon payments, they do count against
the salary cap, but not towards a salary slot. The salary slot for
that player is his base level salary, which does not include any
balloon payments.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3262 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 01 1995 20:08 | 2 |
| 10.3263 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 01 1995 20:15 | 5 |
| > Brown tried to trade Reggie too last summer. He's tried that with his
> best players everywhere he's coached (Admiral, Manning, etc.).
Was he with the Clips when they snookered the Knicks in that Charles Smith
disaster ?
|
| 10.3264 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 01 1995 21:58 | 1 |
| 10.3265 | good thing i've been an akeem fan for a long time... | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Jun 02 1995 11:55 | 2 |
| 10.3266 | Hello Hakeem; goodbye Admiral and Worm | HBAHBA::HAAS | may not have happened | Fri Jun 02 1995 13:12 | 27 |
| Hakeem has sent the Spurs home thereby ending the argument of who's the
best center, at least in the West. Robinson had no chance.
This was actually a pretty close game even to the end. At one point the
Spurs took the lead on a couple of treys by Doc Rivers who Allen Bristow
claims is unable to play in the NBA (his reason for not going after him
when he was available and the Bugs needing help for Muggsy). But Houston
stepped up form the outside with Horry and Cassell.
But mostly this was the Hakeem beats the Admiral show. At one point,
Hakeem made three or four shots in a row from almost the identical place,
about 12 feet to the left of the basket. Robinson quit even trying to
come out and guard him.
In all fairness to Robinson, he got little or no help. The Spurs tried to
put the Worm on Hakeem which led to quick fouls and/or dunks. The
substitute front liners, JR and Cummins, contributed little in this
series.
I think at this point, it's time to say adios to Rodman. Hill tried to
get him to at least act like he was on the team but in the end Rodman was
much more interested in whatever occupies the space between his ears than
winning anything. I kept thinking what if the Spurs had somehow got Otis
Thorpe instead of Rodman. Might have been a different ending. As it is, I
think we've all seen about enough of this guy for a while.
TTom
|
| 10.3267 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Jun 02 1995 14:06 | 5 |
| 10.3268 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NY YANKEES 1995 WORLD CHAMPS!!!!! | Fri Jun 02 1995 14:21 | 3 |
|
Don't count out Mr Miller yet Groan!
|
| 10.3269 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Fri Jun 02 1995 14:28 | 3 |
| 10.3270 | Congrats To Houston | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Fri Jun 02 1995 14:30 | 7 |
| If Orlando close's it out tonight would the pull game 1 of the finals
in from Tuesday to Sunday ? Do the TV stations make more off a
weeknight 9pm game then a weekend mid afternoon game ? Just curious as
they had a published schedule in the paper today for the finals with
game 1 on tuesday... ???
Mab
|
| 10.3271 | Finals start Wednesday | HBAHBA::HAAS | may not have happened | Fri Jun 02 1995 14:40 | 15 |
| MaB
The USA Today says that the Finals will start on Wednesday. Houston will
play at the winner of the Orlando-Indiana series since both of 'em had a
better record than Houston.
Right now, neither the Pacers nor the Magic seem to be able to put the
other guy away. This doesn't bode well for either of 'em against the
Rockets. Houston has shown that they can win on the road being the
visitor in all 3 series they've played so far.
I think I heard that Houston has tied some record by beating 3 teams with
50 or more wins and if'n they win it all, it'll be 4 teams. A new record.
TTom
|
| 10.3272 | Admiral would look good in purple | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 02 1995 16:47 | 7 |
| 10.3273 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 02 1995 16:49 | 2 |
| 10.3274 | seriously... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Jun 02 1995 17:20 | 7 |
| What can Indiana or Orlando do to beat Houston? What are some possible
matchups? I personally think that Orlando has the best chance against
Houston. Smits cannot come close to slowing down Hakeem. At least
Orlando has some 3 point shooters to put Houston on the defensive. I
am hoping that Orlando closes out the series out tonight. Looking
forward to watching Hakeem use and abuse Shaq.
|
| 10.3275 | Looking forward to the finals | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Fri Jun 02 1995 17:52 | 20 |
| If the refs call the game the way it should be called, Shaq would have
no chance against Hakeem. But the Magic people have whined so long and
so hard about how poor lil shaq gets brutalized by the opposition and
he wouldn't hurt a fly that some people are actually buying into this.
What nonsense. O'Neal could foul out of every game by halftime if the
refs called the game tightly. He continually manhandles whoever tries
to guard him, often using his shoulder as a battering ram. I'm sick of
the Magic people saying Smits flops. If that 300 + pound monster was
crashing into you, you'd be on the floor, too!
I think the Pacers-Magic series goes seven, and the 7th game is a
tossup. Houston will defeat whoever emerges from the East, since the
Rockets have clinched home court disadvantage for the Finals! ;-)
Congrats to Hakeem, of course, and Clyde (who wants Otis back now?),
but also to Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Mario Elie, and especially from
last night Robert Horry, whose 7-2 22 line is indeed a memorable one.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3276 | Worm a Mav? | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Love the poppies in the median | Fri Jun 02 1995 17:53 | 3 |
| Read in the paper that Mav's coach Motta may be interested in Rodman.
UMDan
|
| 10.3277 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Fri Jun 02 1995 18:02 | 6 |
|
If Orlando meets Houston, Horace Grant will 'd' up Hakeem
because Shaq would foul out in Houston's first six possessions.
As for Motta wanting Rodman, isn't Dennis just the influence
that you want on all of those talented young guys?
|
| 10.3278 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 02 1995 19:06 | 2 |
| 10.3279 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Jun 02 1995 20:03 | 13 |
| Rodman and Anthony Mason on the same frontline for Pat Riley ? Would Riles
survive the season ? :^)
I heard Bill Walton on WFAN with Mike and The Dog yesterday and during
his glowing praise of Olajuwon (calling him the perfect basketball player),
and mentioning how he destroying the league MVP, he gave credit to Ewing,
saying it's now clear what a great job he did on Hakeem in last year's
Finals.
Big Bill forgot that Mason also spent some time guarding The Dream. But
the point is a good one: Olajuwon never dominated in that series like
he did against The Admiral. Sam Cassell won that series in Game 3.
|
| 10.3280 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 02 1995 22:40 | 2 |
| 10.3281 | You got to get physical... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri Jun 02 1995 23:22 | 5 |
| Hakeem didn't have to destroy those threes stiff that Phoenix calls
centers. One thing that Houston is susceptible to appears to be
physical teams. New York always put a big body on Hakeem last year.
I don't know if the Davis boys or Horace Grant can do the same...\
|
| 10.3282 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 05 1995 13:58 | 3 |
| > I don't know if the Davis boys or Horace Grant can do the same...\
Grant is not physical.
|
| 10.3283 | Yeh, I know; tell me about Clemson again | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon Jun 05 1995 17:59 | 10 |
| I would guess the teams will split the first four games ensuring 6 or 7
game series, shutting hockey (and baseball) out as long as possible.
Anybody watching the series close enough to keep track of the Reebok
advertising and the approximate payout (to keep Shaq in the limelight).
I didn't see the game only highlights but it looked like the way the
refs framed Smit's game and finally forced him out was decisive,
similar to what they did with Camby in ncaas (just an analogy).
I know, 20 point loss and I mention refs...
|
| 10.3284 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Mon Jun 05 1995 18:07 | 26 |
| > I didn't see the game only highlights but it looked like the way the
> refs framed Smit's game and finally forced him out was decisive,
> similar to what they did with Camby in ncaas (just an analogy).
> I know, 20 point loss and I mention refs...
Nope, NBA basketball game between teams from Indiana and Florida and
you mention UMass... :-) :-)
That being said, I think it was more the refs deifying Shaq than trying
to screw Rik Smits. But the result is the same.
I'm really rooting for Houston in this one. Watching Shaq bull his way
through folks without a call reminds me of the WWF. And amazingly enough,
the Magic were crying about calls earlier in the series.
It just adds to the sick feeling I got when the Magic managed to "somehow"
finish first in the lottery the year *after* they got Shaq, netting them
Penny Hardaway (I believe the odds were something like 115:1, maybe greater.)
And Orlando just happens to be in the middle of that lucrative Florida
market...
...wait, I feel like I'm being possessed by the spirit of Bill Breen! :-)
Roland
|
| 10.3285 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 05 1995 18:40 | 10 |
| >It just adds to the sick feeling I got when the Magic managed to "somehow"
>finish first in the lottery the year *after* they got Shaq, netting them
>Penny Hardaway (I believe the odds were something like 115:1, maybe greater.)
Add me to that list. They're already glorifying this franchise for getting
to The Finals in just 6 years from inception. With so many teams watering-
down the talent, getting the #1 pick (ie: franchise player) two years in a
row SHOULD produce a very good team. And add to that that Horace Grant
came gift-wrapped to their doorstep, and it shouldn't be surprising that
they are where they are.
|
| 10.3286 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Where is the grass greener? | Mon Jun 05 1995 18:52 | 3 |
|
Look at the Minnesota Timberwolves and see the difference between
the 4th pick 2 years in a row and the 1st pick two years in a row.
|
| 10.3287 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 05 1995 19:02 | 5 |
| > Look at the Minnesota Timberwolves and see the difference between
> the 4th pick 2 years in a row and the 1st pick two years in a row.
There are *usually* only one or two *sure* talents in each draft.
It's no wonder Orlando is where they are.
|
| 10.3288 | But I'm rooting for Houston | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Mon Jun 05 1995 19:17 | 22 |
| If that many!
Many years there isn't even two! How would you like to have been the
team that took Wayman Tisdale #2? Or Gary Payton? Or Armon Gilliam?
Or Danny Ferry!!!!
Also helping Orlando was their two free agent signings in the
off-season, where in both cases the players took less money to play for
a team that could contend for a title. Take Horace Grant and Brian
Shaw off that team and the Magic certainly aren't contending for a
title. As talented as Penny Hardaway may be (and I won't get into the
talented vs athletically gifted argument here), he is not a ture point
guard and may never be. His assist to turnover ratio in the playoffs
is awful. Brian Shaw has given the Magic quality minutes at the point,
let Penny rest or play the off guard, and shot surprisingly well from
outside.
Orlando, like Houston is essentially a six man team. Unfortuantely for
Houston, Orlando is better at every position except center. I look for
at most a five game series, with the Magic prevailing.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3289 | | HELIX::MAIEWSKI | | Mon Jun 05 1995 19:20 | 8 |
| What ever became of Ralph Sampson? Or was it simpson? You know, the real
tall guy that was the other "twin tower" when the Celtics beat this team
back in the mid 80's.
Seems a 7' 4" guy like that should have lasted a bit longer. At least he
should show up places every now and then.
George
|
| 10.3290 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Mon Jun 05 1995 20:13 | 15 |
| 10.3291 | Houston will repeat | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Jun 06 1995 01:34 | 5 |
| 10.3292 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Tue Jun 06 1995 12:33 | 12 |
|
I don't know why everyone expects Akeem to take Shaq to school. As
Joe brought up Patrick did a reasonable job of slowing him down. The
Admiral doesn't play as physical as Patrick or Shaq will. Akeem hasn't
had to face a physical presences yet in the playoffs. I do expect him
to have good series and he will be the difference but if Shaq is
allowed to push him around then I think his numbers will go down. I
expect him to get some easy fouls on Shaq with fakes but I also expect
Shaq to push him out from his favorite spots. Tough to go against
Clutch City, Houston in 7.........
mikew
|
| 10.3293 | I'll go with the goggles | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jun 06 1995 13:37 | 6 |
| I'll go with Orlando. They've delivered when they've had to.
Obviously Shaq can be fouled out but then again whoever is defending
him can also be. As in all the previous series, Grant will make the
difference and I doubt Houston has anybody to match up with him.
Finally the Thorpe trade will work against Houston.
|
| 10.3294 | Go Houston ! | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue Jun 06 1995 13:40 | 11 |
| > but if Shaq is
> allowed to push him around
It seems this will be the key to the whole series. Will the NBA/refs
make an effort to keep this guy in each game ? I can't see how he can
stop Olajuwon from scoring without fouling him. If Olajuwon scores at
will, or Shaq is in foul trouble, I don't see how Orlando is going to
win this series. In basketball, *everything* breaks down when the
middle breaks down. O'Neal hasn't faced a good center in the playoffs
either. It seems too simple, but the series should be decided by
these two players.
|
| 10.3295 | exit | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Tue Jun 06 1995 14:21 | 51 |
| Well it's down to two Players:
Boss wins it if Orlando wins.
Ron Erickson wins it if Houston wins.
Player Champ 1st rnd after 2nd rnd rnd 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Garry Jazz 12 20 20
Bill Breen Knicks 10 10 10
Chappy Knicks 12 20 20
UMDan Spurs 12 16 16
Karen Derry Spurs 14 22 22
Ron Erickson Spurs 10 22 30
Mike Fowler Suns 12 20 20
R_T_G Suns 14 18 26
Paul Gronowski Spurs 10 18 18
TTom Suns 12 24 24
Joe Huber Cavs 4 8 8
Joe Garbarino Knicks 14 18 18
MAir Bulls 12 16 16
MikeyC Pacers 6 14 14
Mike Heiser Suns 10 10 10
Nazz Spurs 12 20 20
Vinny Silvestri Spurs 14 26 26
Boss Magic 12 20 28
Jerry Heath Bulls 12 16 16
Patrick Roosen Suns 14 22 22
|
| 10.3296 | Go Houston, theyve always been my Favorite West Coast Team :-) | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Jun 06 1995 15:16 | 23 |
| A few Comments, On Orlando getting the #1 pick 2 years in a row (with
150+ to 1 odds) was the closet Iv'e ever felt that the League was
truely FIXED... BUT thats old news and getting the #1 pick (Webber)
may have not turned out that well but GS giving up Hardaway and 3
additional #1 picks really pushed Orlando over the edge. Shaq is the
replacement for Jordan (Yes Jordan can't last forever) and therefore
he (Shaq) gets alot of calls to go his way (2 or 3 times what Jordan
ever got).
Houston VS Orlando, Did anyone see the Hakeem Quote in the paper, I'll
try and get it close
"Orlando has many great young players and veterens, they will win alot
of title's starting Next Year"
I hope Houston can pull it out, I usally root for the underdog and hate
when the same team wins but in this case I'll make an exception. I
know orlando is the favorite but there the young team thats never won,
Bla Bla bla and I would usally root them on, but not shaq, not orlando
theyve got too may breaks and hopefully Houston can bring them back
down to earth.
mab
|
| 10.3297 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Tue Jun 06 1995 15:18 | 4 |
|
actually the biggest lottery fix was the Knicks getting Ewing....
mike
|
| 10.3298 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Tue Jun 06 1995 17:04 | 8 |
|
I believe that Orlando was 1 in 66 (1 ball for 11th, 2 balls for 10th,
3 balls for 9th...) which means that 1.5% of the time they would get
the first pick. Nothing fixed about it, just good luck. The result of
which caused the lottery odds to change DRAMATICALLY afterwards.
Marc
|
| 10.3299 | a devil of a hard time to beat the odds | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Tue Jun 06 1995 17:18 | 3 |
| I think the real odds for Orlando were 1 in 666.
TTom
|
| 10.3300 | still going | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Tue Jun 06 1995 17:39 | 6 |
| 10.3301 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Jun 06 1995 18:49 | 10 |
| Just seems strange that after all the Shaq Hype and the Money that
could be made if Orlando could build a contender that they managed
to GET LUCKY. Then the team with no Luck in a bad market (MinnY)
gets no #1 picks NO LUCK...
Of course none of this would have matter'd if chicago could have
kept Grant, MJ would be going for his 4rth ring starting Tomorow
night :-)
MaB
|
| 10.3302 | good matchups | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Tue Jun 06 1995 19:00 | 21 |
| Even without Bill Cartwright? Not IMHO.
Forget Michael. He's old news. In fack, he's just plain old. His day has
come and gone and nexted year if'n he comes back it'll be clear that's
it's just for the money.
Right now, in this series, we have 3 of the bestest they is in the NBA,
at least thised year. Hakeem has shown everyone that put him 5th on the
MVP list and 3rd team All Pro that they should have their voting power
rescinded. Penny made All Pro. And of course we got the rapper soopreme,
Shaq.
There's gonna be a couple of good matchups: Shaq vs Hakeem; Penny vs
Clyde; Mario Elie vs Dennis Scott;
Who matches up with Horry? With Grant? They could be the difference
And of course, the real wild card: how will the Magic contain the mighty
Chuckie Brown, he of NC & State fame.
TTom
|
| 10.3303 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Herring, SS-283, In Memoriam | Tue Jun 06 1995 19:01 | 15 |
| As I've said before, I'm not a big hoops fan, but this Final has got to be
the worst I've seen yet.
I couldn't care less who wins, but I supposed if I had to pick I'd pick the
Magic since I can't stand the Rockets.
Hockey will be marginally interesting because the Red Wings or the Blackhawks
will be in the finals, and I'm a big "Original Six" (misnomer really) fan.
I guess I'll be watching a lot of the Learning Channel in the coming weeks!
8^)
|
| 10.3304 | | MR1PST::THEKGB::MBROOKS | | Tue Jun 06 1995 19:09 | 22 |
| -2, Ya MJ is old(old News) but he did bring his team from say a
7th seed to the 5th seed, got them into the 2nd round were they
had to contend with a team with 7 starters VS there 5 :-)
I'd take him over ALL other guards in the league and if he pulled the
GO TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER route he could more then likely write his
own contract and amount he wanted on the bottom line (Even at 32).
Would Charlotte rather have LJ or MJ in LJ's contract today ? Ya if I
was building for the Future and new the refs would keep calling fouls
the way they do today then a 23 year old shaq would be a good starting
point... Give Chicago a DECENT starting Center/PowerForward and no
major losses to FreeAgency and there right back in it the next few
years. This year loss to Orlando was marginal at most and Grant played
a pivotal role in the series, put grant in chicago and Orlando was out
in round 1 (2 at the latest) and we'd be seeing the top 2 (bowie dont
count) drafts from 1984 in this years finals...
Chicago wouldn't have need cartwright as they did not have to play
New York :-)
mab
|
| 10.3305 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Tue Jun 06 1995 19:44 | 8 |
|
>> As I've said before, I'm not a big hoops fan, but this Final has got to be
>> the worst I've seen yet.
It hasn't even started yet. But it does look to be a pretty intriguing
matchup, something I wouldn't have thought possible in the current NBA.
As long as the Knicks aren't in it, the Finals has a chance to be enter-
taining.
|
| 10.3306 | especially about the Knickers | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Wed Jun 07 1995 11:19 | 11 |
|
Agreed Tommy. I'm looking forward to a very entertaining Finals. While
I'm sorry my pick Indiana didn't make it (the Vescey curse), I'd have
to say that it'll be a more entertaining series without them than it
would have been had they made it. The only thing both team lacks is
a bench. It's anybody's ballgame at this point unlike other years
when you knew the favorite would survive. We might actually see both
teams score over 100 points in every ballgame. That'd be a nice change
of pace.........
mike
|
| 10.3307 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Herring, SS-283, In Memoriam | Wed Jun 07 1995 12:25 | 20 |
| > It hasn't even started yet. But it does look to be a pretty intriguing
> matchup, something I wouldn't have thought possible in the current NBA.
> As long as the Knicks aren't in it, the Finals has a chance to be enter-
> taining.
I know it hasn't started. I was referring to the matchup, not the quality
of play (which obviously hasn't happened yet).
I guess because I'm NOT a hoops fan, the matchup doesn't intrigue me,
although it would be interesting to see how the Man-Child O'Neal does
in the series.
I'm glad the Knicks didn't make it. The only thing better would be if they
made it then lost, cause the folks on the FAN would be really whiney.
'Saw
|
| 10.3308 | past and present | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Wed Jun 07 1995 14:04 | 15 |
| back at MaB:
Would I rather have Jordan than LJ? Sure? But there's others that I'd
want afore Jordan. Penny Hardaway comes to mind especially if'n you're
looking for now and the future.
But face it, we've seen Jordan at his prime and this aint it. Besides,
he's a proven liar and quitter. Who'd risk the future on that combo. I'm
intrigued about the open bidding part, though. It's all about money, fer
sure, fer sure.
As to thised year's matchups, I like 'em better'n lasted year's. I don't
think we'll here a bunch of whining about thugball.
TTom
|
| 10.3309 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Jun 07 1995 15:20 | 4 |
| With all the pissin-and-moanin about the Knicks, this year's rematch with
the Pacers was pretty darn interesting. And with all the talk about ratings
being higher this postseason it's interesting that the last 2 games of the
Eastern Conference Finals were down 1% and 8%, respectively.
|
| 10.3310 | should be a good series... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed Jun 07 1995 16:39 | 11 |
| As seems to be the case every year; whoever controls the boards has
the best chance of winning. Although San Antonio seemed to control
the boards but nothing more. Penny seems to be the key for Orlando.
Saw an interesting stat that reminded me of the real MJ (Magic
Johnson!). The more Penny scores points the less wins for Orlando.
The more assists and involvement of the rest of the team and the more
wins for Orlando. Pennys height may give Houston problems. Grant
needs to hit the glass and keep Horry to about 12 to 16 points.
Cassell and Drexler need to step up play. If it is left up to Hakeem
I personally don't think Houston has much of a chance...
|
| 10.3311 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Jun 07 1995 19:23 | 2 |
| 10.3312 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Wed Jun 07 1995 19:29 | 4 |
| 10.3313 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 08 1995 11:56 | 12 |
|
MAgic blow an early 20 point lead and loose 120-118 in OT. Fell asleep
in the third quarter but up until then Penny was abusing Kenny Smith
and Casell at will. They must have switched Ellie or Drexler on him.
Ole disappearin' Clyde actually saved this game as I saw it. He started
out like chit but after the Magic built a 20 point lead late in the
second and Akeem went to the bench with number 3 Drexler, scored,
assisted and rebounded enough to cut the lead to 11 at the half.
Akeem outscored Shaq but Shaq out rebounded him but Akeem got the
game winning tap-in with .3 on the clock........
mike
|
| 10.3314 | Good Game | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Watch out, kids are out of school! | Thu Jun 08 1995 13:00 | 8 |
| I wonder if Shaq slapped the smirk off of Anderson' face in the locker
room? You know, the one Nick had on his face after he missed the 3rd of
4 FT's at the end of regulation.
How many trey's did both teams attepmt, 44? Amazing. Betcha Houston
puts someone on Scott next time he inbounds one.
UMDan
|
| 10.3315 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Where is the grass greener? | Thu Jun 08 1995 13:20 | 5 |
|
And I thought that Shaq would be the one to blow an important game
by missing his free throws.
Ron
|
| 10.3316 | GO HOUSTON !!! | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 08 1995 13:22 | 29 |
| > I wonder if Shaq slapped the smirk off of Anderson' face in the locker
> room? You know, the one Nick had on his face after he missed the 3rd of
> 4 FT's at the end of regulation.
I enjoyed watching this *sshole smile his way to 4 missed FTs. He hits
one and the game is over. Someone (radio ?) said yesterday that Orlando
is too young to win a championship. It's not that they haven't paid their
dues (which they haven't), it's stupid stuff like this...just haven't
matured yet.
Other enjoyable moments:
- Hakeem slapping away a Hardaway shot in OT
- Shaq throwing one away in OT with a careless pass
MikeC, too bad you fell asleep, 'cause Smith was the one doin' all the
abusin' in the 2nd half. I don't think I've ever seen him play better.
And you missed Shaq running over Hakeem (literally) and they called it
a blocking foul ! It would have been O'Neal's 6th.
> How many trey's did both teams attepmt, 44?
It was in the 60's, wasn't it ?
A VERY enjoyable game.
|
| 10.3317 | "95'- 96' Bucketeers!" | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu Jun 08 1995 13:38 | 10 |
| Mikey:
They let Shaq run over everyone, including Hakeem. No O' fouls
called, only traveling or blocking fouls. Houston isn't gonna win if
they let Shaq get away with this chit. Maybe things will go the other
way in Houston.
JS
|
| 10.3318 | Ghost of Kelly Tripucka isn't stopping Shaq, yet | AKOCOA::BREEN | Shoo bop, Shewaa | Thu Jun 08 1995 14:03 | 24 |
| The new breed are trying to establish their college trick of taking the
charge although never actually defending the play. I basically have
blamed Dean Smith for this travesty of the game though Kelly Tripucka
perfected it (in fact I'd like to tm the word "Tripucking" for the act
of taking a phony charge).
The nba veterans with the support of the refs spurned the tactic and
it's absence was a major factor (imo) in the resurgence of the nba in
that it enabled the concept of a drive to the basket to exist.
Now that virtually all of the players have been trained in the tactic
they are attempting it more and more and finally the refs are giving
in. Cousy, a basketball imbecile, actually believes there is an
imaginary circle under the basket from which charges cannot be taken.
Naismith would turn in his grave to find out that control-freak,
edge-addicted college coaches had perverted his game to allow
non-defenders to stand where the driving player is going to land and
claim, technically, that they were fouled (using theatrics to gain the
call).
This is an important stage for the nba and they should seriously
address clarifying the rules with the goal of arresting the use of that
obnoxious college tactic.
|
| 10.3319 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Thu Jun 08 1995 14:24 | 13 |
| > Cousy, a basketball imbecile, actually believes there is an
> imaginary circle under the basket from which charges cannot be taken.
Yes, you might want to set him straight. He may also need you to explain
the assist rule to him, too.
Cousy is *not* a basketball imbecile. He takes a good hard look at what
he sees, and bluntly describes it.
Did he say that the circle was how it should be, or how he believes things
are called?
Roland
|
| 10.3320 | 62 or 'em | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Thu Jun 08 1995 15:39 | 21 |
| re: treys
Houston, 14-32, K. SMith, 7-11
Orlando, 9-30, D. Scott, 2-7
re: taking the charge
Dean not only teaches this take a charge when you're not set play but he
also has another one where you extend your knee into the guy blowing by
you on the baseline. Invariably, the guy with the ball is either tripped
or forced outta bounds and the Tar Heels get the ball.
As for the game itself, it looked like different teams each half. The
first half was all Magic and the second half was all Rockets. Hakeem and
Shaq both played big. For a half a game Penny was big. Then Drexler took
over and Kenny Smith went unconscious from 3-point land.
Dean most certainly did not teach Kenny Smith anything about shooting
treys.
TTom
|
| 10.3321 | "Dad, do we have to root for the home team?" | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 08 1995 16:34 | 5 |
| 10.3322 | So I have some singular opinions re tv broadcasters | AKOCOA::BREEN | Shoo bop, Shewaa | Thu Jun 08 1995 16:44 | 16 |
| Roland I grant you that while Heinsohn has abandoned objective analysis
which he was the best at, Cousy states what's on his mind. So he's a
blunt imbecile. But I have no problem with him on straight shooting
just that he's right back in 1960 land in analysis.
Of course with a ball in his hand in 1963 he was a genious. He was at
worst a good college coach, very good offensively. But I think his
ability to deliver inside analysis other than generalizations is about
nil. Ironically, he probably is the only nba voice to even attempt to
explain why charging is not called (prior to now) in the nba with his
"circle" explanation.
Something tells me you are old enough to have really appreciated Bob
Cousy but when I (probalby over)state his liabilities in the booth
that's not to be taken personnally. Btw, I think Sean McDonough is the
absolute, nadir, pits as an announcer.
|
| 10.3323 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Thu Jun 08 1995 16:52 | 21 |
| > Something tells me you are old enough to have really appreciated Bob
> Cousy but when I (probalby over)state his liabilities in the booth
> that's not to be taken personnally.
I was born in 1962. My appreciation of Cousy comes mostly from game
clips, interviews with players of the time, and *listening to him describe
a game*. (I cannot, however, claim to have a brilliant basketball mind -
others who are more hoops-oriented are welcome to comment on Cousy's
analysis skills.)
I don't take any of this personally, but in Cousy's shoes, if I were being
called an "imbecile", I think I would... :-)
RE: "the circle"
I actually don't agree with Cousy - I just thought your calling him an
imbecile was out of line.
I would almost think that it was the inverse - that you'd have to be somewhere
in a circle around the basket in order to have established position long
enough in front of the driving player.
|
| 10.3324 | NBA No. 1s who won | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Thu Jun 08 1995 17:08 | 21 |
| A little tidbit from USA Today:
Overall No. 1 draft picks, Hakeem and Shaq, lead their teams to the
finals.
Here's the No.1 picks who won a title with the team that drafted them,
since 65:
team year
Player drafting drafting title
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hakeem Alajuwon Houston 84 94
James Worthy LA Lakers 82 85,87,88
Magic Johnson LA Lakers 79 80,82,85,87,88
Bill Walton Portland 74 77
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Milwaukee 69 71
Cazzie Russell NY Knicks 66 70
How about afore 65? Anyone know?
TTom
|
| 10.3325 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 08 1995 17:59 | 12 |
| >RE: "the circle"
>I would almost think that it was the inverse - that you'd have to be somewhere
>in a circle around the basket in order to have established position long
>enough in front of the driving player.
This 'circle' area is always brought up by Hubie Brown. He refers to it
as being 'under the rim'. It makes perfect sense to me as once the
offensive player has gotten that far he's now into his shot and it should
not matter if his momentum takes him into a defensive player who's beyond
the point of where the shot took place.
|
| 10.3326 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 08 1995 18:03 | 11 |
| >>With all the pissin-and-moanin about the Knicks, this year's rematch with
>>the Pacers was pretty darn interesting. And with all the talk about
> I wonder how it would be if the Knicks didn't play in the country's
> biggest market.
I don't follow you. The Indiana series was great because 3 games came
down to the last shot, one went to OT and one had the Knicks winning
on the road in the face of elimination. It had nothing to do with
the Knicks being in the biggest TV market.
|
| 10.3327 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 08 1995 19:36 | 2 |
| 10.3328 | both get away with alot. | BSS::MENDEZ | | Thu Jun 08 1995 19:48 | 7 |
| I didnt't get to see the whole game (missed the 2nd half) but, It sure
looked like Hakeem pushed Grant out of the way to get to the tip in.
If you ask me BOTH Hakeem and Shaq get away with too much... Good
teams make adjustments throughout the series. We will see what the
Magic can do from this point on. Rudy T seems to be a better game
tactician then Hill.
|
| 10.3329 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 08 1995 21:12 | 13 |
| > I didnt't get to see the whole game (missed the 2nd half) but, It sure
> looked like Hakeem pushed Grant out of the way to get to the tip in.
The way I saw it Grant bumped into his own man (Anderson)...he never got as
far as Hakeem.
re: #1 TV market
I wasn't even referring to TV ratings, I was just talking about the quality
of play and excitement of the series. I'm not even sure what the Knicks-
Pacers drew for an audience.
|
| 10.3330 | | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Fri Jun 09 1995 12:40 | 4 |
| Game 1 drew a 13% higher rating than last year's game 1. No Knicks? Coincidence
I don't think so. People hate basketbrawl........
mike
|
| 10.3331 | you can look it up... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Jun 09 1995 14:08 | 11 |
| > People hate basketbrawl........
Is that why they hate your Hoyas MikeC ?
And that's a pretty big jump you're taking there: no Knicks = better ratings.
All of this year's NBA playoff series were up markedly over last year,
including the two the Knicks appeared in. Jordan's return is generally
cited as the reason. And when you abuse the ratings of last year's
Finals, please remember that OJ wiped 'em out, not the Knicks. Without
Game5, the series was running even with the year before.
|
| 10.3332 | trouble | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Fri Jun 09 1995 14:16 | 10 |
| On the lasted play, it was Shaq that missed his assignment. Anderson had
Drexler covered but Shaq came over to help out. That left Grant outta
position to try to keep Hakeem of the boards. Anderson also rotated to
help Grant out but Hakeem just went up and over him.
The one fack that shouldn't be overlooked is that the Magic outrebounded
the Rockets by 17 boards. If'n you can win on the road getting
outrebounded by 17, the other team is in some deep dooooo.
TTom
|
| 10.3333 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 09 1995 15:40 | 2 |
| 10.3334 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Fri Jun 09 1995 16:27 | 11 |
|
Who said I was one of those people? ;^) I like both styles myself. Got no
choice cause the Shamoos only know one style. Why am I taking such a big
jump? I was compare finals to finals. As I recall last week when MJ and crew
were gone the rating dropped from the high they were experience. So why all
of sudden did they go back up? Sure the really casual fan pays notice now
that this is finally it. I also think that fans turned off by physical low
scoring contest turned off last year are now turning in this year. Either
that or it's a Reebok conspiracy......
mike
|
| 10.3335 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Fri Jun 09 1995 16:42 | 6 |
|
Mike, this is just my thought, but couldn't the difference be that
people would rather see Shaq than Patrick (or something like that)
rather than they did not want to see the Knicks.
Marc
|
| 10.3336 | Slams on Cousy won't be tolerated here | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Fri Jun 09 1995 17:43 | 13 |
| Cousy and Hubie are both correct. The NBA generally does not allow a
charge to be taken directly under the basket. Some refs give the
defense some leeway there, but generally it's a no-call or a defensive
foul if there is contact directly under the basket on a drive.
As far as Cousy goes, disagree with his announcing style, ridicule his
slight lisp, but please - you're only insulting yourself by calling him
an imbecile. Bob Cousy has forgotten more about basketball than anyone
in this notesfile will ever know. He is personable, intelligent, and
honest. He's been a great ambassador for the game for 40 years. And
next to Magic Johnson, he is the best point guard I've ever seen.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3337 | Bob Cousy and Chick Hearn | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Mon Jun 12 1995 14:39 | 12 |
| re: Cousy.
I've probably said it in here afore but the two nicest announcers that
come to town when their team plays the Bugs are Bob Cousy and Chick
Hearn. Both will talk with you at great lenghts after the game. Cousy
obviously knows what he's talking about and seems a really at ease
discussing things one-on-one. Hearn is the firsted to admit that he
stumbled onto a gold mine with the Lakers. He says he just tries to pay
attention to what's happening rather than pretending that he's
a_authority on the game.
TTom
|
| 10.3338 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Herring, SS-283, In Memoriam | Mon Jun 12 1995 15:10 | 11 |
| Well, perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but I have a thing for guys that just call the
game.
I've always believed that if you have a job to do, and you do it solidly and
well, that you don't need a lot of the plastic glitz and glamour that seems to
be the norm these days.
I'll take consumate knowledge (John Davidson for example) over glitz anyday.
'Saw
|
| 10.3339 | good > glitzy > bland | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Mon Jun 12 1995 15:26 | 4 |
| Hail, I wish the were glitzy. The problem is that they're bland and you
caint tell one from the other.
TTom
|
| 10.3340 | Yep, Couz is a great guy | AKOCOA::BREEN | Shoo bop, Shewaa | Mon Jun 12 1995 15:50 | 20 |
| I agree with everything you say about Cousy except his actual analysis
during games. I have always been a Cousy admirer but he simply doesn't
see and understand what is actually going on out there on the court or
(possibly) doesn't related it because he assumes most of the audience
doesn't want to hear about it.
How could anyone who listens to Cousy during the season and then to
Walton or Brown or Collins not see a dramatic difference and these guys
also are trying to talk to median listener. Because everybody loves
Cousy he is to be above raproach? Also, if Cousy wasn't there you'd
see a much different Heinsohn.
Finally, I liked Howard Cossell and Chris Shenkel to media persons who
have been continually targeted, the former of course bringing a lot of
it on himself. Cousy obviously is not a popular target. But I want a
lot higher quality commentary and Couz isn't doing it and I believe
keeps Heinsohn at the same low level.
And I also can't believe I'm the only one who can't stand Cousy's
commentary.
|
| 10.3341 | | MSE1::PCOTE | You want some cheese with that whine? | Mon Jun 12 1995 16:44 | 23 |
|
> during games. I have always been a Cousy admirer but he simply doesn't
> see and understand what is actually going on out there on the court or
> (possibly) doesn't related it because he assumes most of the audience
> doesn't want to hear about it.
Wow, you're certainly are entitled to your opinion and if that's what
you believe then fine - but saying Cousy doesn't understand what
is "going on out there on the court" is a rather difficult assertion
to comprehend. It's like saying that Nazz doesn't understand how
to acknowledge an assist - well, perhaps that's a bad analogy. :-)
I give Cousy alot more credit and enjoy is often times frank
analysis of the often times pitiful play of the Celtics.
On the other hand, Tommy H is simply dreadful. Bing, bang,
boom - Shutter the thought of another season with him at the
mike.
Paul
|
| 10.3342 | assists? | CSC32::J_HENSON | Don't get even, get ahead! | Mon Jun 12 1995 17:12 | 12 |
| Speaking of assists, is it an assist if you pass the ball to a person in
position to take a shot, and that person is fouled in the act of shooting?
Does it matter whether or not the fouled shooter makes his free throws?
And in case anyone missed it, Houston has taken a 3-0 series lead over
the Magic. I realize that there aren't a lot of noters in this conference
from Houston or Orlando, but I figured that at least someone would
have some comments on the games. Instead, it seems like everyone's more
interested in whether or not Bob Cousy is a good announcer. Maybe the NBA
ain't all that FAN-tastic in this notes file.
Jerry
|
| 10.3343 | no assist | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Mon Jun 12 1995 17:32 | 9 |
| I'll await Nazz'a official reply but I'm purty shore that you don't get
the assist if'n the ball don't get in.
As for the games theyselves, yesterday's was just like the rest of 'em.
Orlando looked good and played fairly well except for 3 point shooting
possibly but the Rockets played better and with the game on the line the
Houston players stepped up and Orlando's dint.
TTom
|
| 10.3344 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | fifty lashes with a gui icon | Mon Jun 12 1995 18:09 | 15 |
|
re 3342.
Jerry I guess I can start rooting for the Rockets again, having
lived there for seven years. What I'm waiting for is the sweep. I
want to write our local hero Ralph Routon and dump on him again.
He had the Magic-Pacers series as the NBA Championship, giving the
Rockets no chance of taking either the Magic or Pacers for the title.
It never amazes me how the man can stick his head so far up his anal
cavity
Keith
|
| 10.3345 | And fat lady 1/2 thru moon comes over mountain | AKOCOA::BREEN | Da,Dah Duh, de.. Goodnight (Orlando) | Mon Jun 12 1995 18:11 | 8 |
| I caught the last four minutes and mr. Horry put the knife in them.
Shaq was immense down the stretch but wasn't getting any help. I wnt
to the kitchen after Horry's trey at 7.2 sec and a 5 point lead. Lo
and behold I hear all this excitement and an Anderson trey, foul (2)
and Shaq 2 and Cassell miss 1 of 2 and with 2.2 it ain't over.
But penny couldn't get a good shot off. I'm not convinced this thing
is really over even at 3-0.
|
| 10.3346 | An assist isn't an assist unless I say it is! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Mon Jun 12 1995 18:35 | 17 |
| You cain't git an assist unless a basket is scored, or unless you're
workin' in a place like the O-rena and Penny needs a couple for a
triple double!
Actually, the Magic people (except the clock operator aren't too bad.
They put in an almost entirely new crew after their first year, and
these people seem to know something about the game.
The Rockets are proving once again that it's a blessing for me that I
don't live in Vegas. Their defense on Anderson and Scott has been
terrific. Brian Shaw has been the best perimeter player for the Magic,
if you can imagine that!!! Penny Hardaway has shown his lack of
maturity at the point. How much better would the Magic be if they
could find a true PG, let Penny play off guard, and get rid of Dennis
Scott?
NAZZ
|
| 10.3347 | Did you say Rowlfff? | CSC32::J_HENSON | Don't get even, get ahead! | Mon Jun 12 1995 21:10 | 9 |
| >> <<< Note 10.3344 by OLD1S::CADZILLA2 "fifty lashes with a gui icon" >>>
>> want to write our local hero Ralph Routon and dump on him again.
Keith,
Get it right. It's either "Fat Ralph" or "Ralph Rotten".:-)
Jerry
|
| 10.3348 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 12 1995 21:26 | 10 |
| > maturity at the point. How much better would the Magic be if they
> could find a true PG, let Penny play off guard, and get rid of Dennis
> Scott?
Taking this a step further, this guy and Royal look so good when Orlando
is cookin', but they've failed to contribute in The Finals. I heard
Orlando's Asst GM last week on WFAN and he said they needed more bench
depth. After seeing what's happened in this series, I see what he's
talking about. He jokingly said that he doesn't think they'll get it
in the draft, and doesn't see how they'll get it via free agency.
|
| 10.3349 | Royal's not the pudding, Scott is | AKOCOA::BREEN | Da,Dah Duh, de.. Goodnight (Orlando) | Mon Jun 12 1995 21:50 | 3 |
| I thought Royal has virtually warmed the pine ever since Boston. He
was quoted as saying he doesn't understand sitting when Houston is
feasting on Scott.
|
| 10.3350 | | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Tue Jun 13 1995 11:39 | 8 |
| I keep hearing all this talk about Shaq's dedication and hard work but I
find it hard to beleive when I'm watching a game and he can't get back on
defense. Until he's committed to playing all out all the time it ain't going
to happen for the Magic. While I've never been a big Drexler fan, he's winning
me over. Right now I'd say you could give the MVP to Akeem, Clyde or Horry
and justify it but because of the previous series it's Akeem's.....
mike
|
| 10.3351 | give it to Clyde | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Tue Jun 13 1995 12:49 | 9 |
| Shaq's problems are (a) he has to guard Hakeem so no matter how he tries
or where he defends, Hakeem will school him and (2) he has game away from
the basket. If'n he gets the ball outside the paint he gets stopped and
is forced to pass. This only helps the Rockets double team.
If'n the win, I'd give the MVP to Clyde. You'd get no complaints from any
of the other Rockets. Yeah, Clyde. Or maybe Chuckie Brown.
TTom
|
| 10.3352 | Hoping for a sweep tomorrow night | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Tue Jun 13 1995 15:28 | 6 |
| For the entire playoff series, there's no question that Hakeem has been
the MVP. The schooling he gave to David Robinson alone should earn him
the award. He has been the dominent player throught each round for the
Rockets.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3353 | | DZIGN::ROBICHAUD | Do You Believe Now! | Wed Jun 14 1995 12:03 | 6 |
| In spite of Midnight (and face it regardless of which team won he
would've been a life-long fan), I too am hoping for a Rockets sweep.
But I don't know if it's a pro Houston sentiment as much as it is an
anti Orlando one.
/Don
|
| 10.3354 | sweep then Hokey | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Wed Jun 14 1995 13:02 | 6 |
| > But I don't know if it's a pro Houston sentiment as much as it is an
> anti Orlando one.
You just wanna be able to concentrate on them DEBILS!~
TTom
|
| 10.3355 | if'n Houston can do it ... | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Wed Jun 14 1995 13:47 | 18 |
| this and that ...
Houston is up 3-0. They're the 8th team in this position. 5 of 'em lost
game 4. The biggest difference is that Houston has the chance to be the
firsted team win games 3 and 4 to sweep.
Houston can set another record by winning it all: they'd be the firsted
team to beat 4 teams with 50 wins.
Houston also can gain some respect if'n it wins again. Lasted year,
during the finals, we had OJ driving down the road do his Bronco thang
and then after they had won, SI had the World Cup on the cover.
USA today has it's all interview team. Sir Chuck was the top vote getter.
Others on the team include The Mailman, The Admiral, Reggie da mouth
Miller and Doc Rivers (huh?). George Karl was named coach.
TTom
|
| 10.3356 | ex | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed Jun 14 1995 14:51 | 6 |
|
Mark Blaudschun of the Globe is reporting that Jerry Stackohouse
has told the Clippers not to bother drafting him because he doesn't
want to go there and will opt to return to school should they draft
him anyways.
|
| 10.3357 | go east, young man | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Wed Jun 14 1995 15:09 | 15 |
| Locally,
They're talking about this in a little larger perspective, namely, ol'
Jerr wants to play for a_east coast team. Supposedly he's also asking
Golden State to not take him and lobbying hard for Philly and Washington.
The motivation, supposedly, is to be nearer to his family.
Implicit in the attention given this is that Golden State doesn't seem to
have much interest because no such letter has been sent to them.
Stackhouse is actively talking to Philly and Washington on his own,
wihtout a_agent. This sounds like he's trying to keep all his options
open, including going back to Chapel Hill.
TTom
|
| 10.3358 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Wed Jun 14 1995 15:35 | 3 |
|
Quick, somebody send him a list of all of the available shuttle flights
from Logan to Philadelphia!
|
| 10.3359 | well atleast some of us have........ | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Wed Jun 14 1995 16:05 | 7 |
|
So if the Clippers draft him, and he goes back to school, they retain his
rights till a year after his graduation date? If so and he still doesn't
sign is he a free agent or back in the draft ?
Also big talk about a lockout by the owners........stupid but hey we've
always known that the owners are greedier.......
|
| 10.3360 | stupid is as stupid does | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Wed Jun 14 1995 16:14 | 13 |
| I think there's enough stupid to go around for all.
Under the current agreement, the NBA, it's players, coaches and owners
have all prospered.
If'n they're greedy - all of 'em - they outta look around and notice how
much more money they're making now than just a few years ago.
Of course, the CAP seems to be a sticking point for all. The players
don't want one and there's talk that the owners may want to put a hard
cap in place a la NFL.
TTom
|
| 10.3361 | Conspiracy? | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Watch out, kids are out of school! | Wed Jun 14 1995 16:14 | 8 |
| Looks like the NBA dropped out of the Strike Fund Troika (NBA, NFL and
NCAA). Instead of paying the Baseball folks and NHL to go out on
strike to increase the Troika's revenues, they have opted to hop on the
strike/lockout bandwagon themselves.
Looks like a banner year for the NFL and NCAA football.
UMDan
|
| 10.3362 | hoping | HBAHBA::HAAS | Co-Captor of the Wind Demon | Wed Jun 14 1995 16:20 | 5 |
| > Looks like a banner year for the NFL and NCAA football.
Yeah, if'n they will only start soon ...
TTom
|
| 10.3363 | :*) | GENRAL::WADE | Ah'm Yo Huckleberry... | Wed Jun 14 1995 17:33 | 5 |
|
I am sorely disappointed in you MikeyC. How come no Stackhouse
bashing? If it was good for Elway it surely applies here.
Claybone
|
| 10.3364 | Then again I could be wrong (hah) | AKOCOA::BREEN | Ta,ta,ta,ta,ta... History | Wed Jun 14 1995 17:41 | 18 |
| Without a history of acrimony and double dealing the two sides will
eventually simply compromise on the outstanding issues and pocket the
heavy cash. There's no heavy lifting involved and nba teams have a lot
of excess profit the players will never touch and many of the players
are getting rich (stars) in side deals.
The lockout forestalls deals prior to the agreement which beat the
current cap and possibly the new one (Webber...). The cap's biggest
problem revolves around the unique situation of a Michael Jordan who
simply cannot be paid commensurate with his worth (probably not without
a cap either). The work around is Nike, Coca Cola (or is it Pepsi),
McDonalds etc who in turn become the big advertisers (the assumption
being that the huge sums they pay mj come back in discounts).
The problem for a few of us (Mike Childs comes to mind) is said
advertisers will expect their poster boy to get more than two rounds in
the next playoffs (and so will Reebok for Shaq). So expect the Magic
and Bulls to go seven in next eastern finals .
|
| 10.3365 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Wed Jun 14 1995 18:20 | 4 |
| RE: .3364
Have you and Steve Carlton ever been seen in the same
place at once?
|
| 10.3366 | I think I have a chart somewhere | AKOCOA::BREEN | Ta,ta,ta,ta,ta... History | Wed Jun 14 1995 19:25 | 10 |
| I don't know his gig but I don't trust big money and the entertainment
mindset of the network/advertising/marketing decision trusts. At one
time gambling money was the big fear but that's chicken feed next to
the millions earned by rating points. The man bites dog scenario would
be that everything the nba says about it being 100% legit is true.
The scenario of big rating point dollars influencing nba outcomes is
just a situation that may or may not happen. I could see it happening
in '93, I think Shaq was helped along to the finals this year but not
in an obvious way.
|
| 10.3367 | Bucketeers Drool! Pinky's Slugs ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL! | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 15 1995 11:13 | 8 |
|
Of course that was the first thing that came to my mind Clay, but without
Ack Ack around to hero worship Stackhouse like JE received in here, it hardly
seemed worth it......
Besides I really wanted an answer which I still haven't got.......
mikey
|
| 10.3368 | Bucketeers perennial cellar dwellers | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 15 1995 11:22 | 15 |
|
Clutch City 113 Magic 101..........Hakeem the MVP of the finals threw 35
with 15 boards. Shaq again looked like Wilted(tm) son. So much physical
ability so little talent and most of all no burning desire. Shouldn't be
long now before people stop laughing at me for saying Zo was the best
Center in the draft that year.............
Quote from Shaq that says it all about why he'll always be a looser:
"I just want congratulate Hakeem. We didn't give up at all. I'm a young
player I'll be in this posistion many times."
sad very sad........
mikey
|
| 10.3369 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Jun 15 1995 11:32 | 4 |
| 10.3370 | go figure.... | MKOTS3::LONG | Naw Leens is one partying town! | Thu Jun 15 1995 12:07 | 7 |
| Now I guess Groaner is a Rockets fan, too. I coulda sworn Cleveland
had a basketball team. I could be wrong.
billl
|
| 10.3371 | He'll be back | CSLALL::BRULE | Was there life before ESPN? | Thu Jun 15 1995 12:37 | 8 |
| Oh man I hate to admit it but I agree with Paul. Akeem was early in his
career when the C's beat him and the Rockets in the finals and it was
years before they won it. With Penny, Grant, Scott and Anderson the
Magic. I think Shaq needs to talk with Jordan, Bird, Magic and Hakeem
to find out what it takes to win. The man is still very young and has a
lot to learn. But I don't think this will be his last finals.
mike
|
| 10.3372 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same... | Thu Jun 15 1995 12:48 | 5 |
| 10.3373 | Dexter gets a ring | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Watch out, kids are out of school! | Thu Jun 15 1995 13:06 | 4 |
| Looked like the Tragic never recovered from the missed FT's in game 1.
Wonder what would have happened if Nick had actually sunk one of em?
UMDan
|
| 10.3374 | | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 15 1995 13:11 | 10 |
|
I'm not saying that I don't expect him to get back to the Finals, certainly
not with the team around him. I just feel like Wilted(tm) he'll be dis-
appointed more often than not. He just doesn't impress me. He has all the
tools but doesn't have the passion. It's all been handed to him to easily
I'm afraid. He also isn't a very good defensive player. You would think
with his size people would be afraid to penetrate, but the Rockets drove the
lane at will.........
mike
|
| 10.3375 | | MKOTS3::LONG | Naw Leens is one partying town! | Thu Jun 15 1995 13:20 | 8 |
| re .3372:
Groaner, if you've liked any NBA team for a day, that's one day
longer than I've liked any NBA team.
hth,
billl
|
| 10.3376 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 15 1995 15:42 | 9 |
| > I'm not saying that I don't expect him to get back to the Finals, certainly
> not with the team around him. I just feel like Wilted(tm) he'll be dis-
> appointed more often than not. He just doesn't impress me. He has all the
> tools but doesn't have the passion.
Passion, and incredible EFFORT were missing from all of the Magic, IMO.
One thing that should come out of this humiliation is the Magic should
learn that they need to play with urgency and maximum effort every
minute to win The Finals.
|
| 10.3377 | random thoughts | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jun 15 1995 17:24 | 13 |
| 10.3378 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Get Well Mickey | Thu Jun 15 1995 17:29 | 7 |
|
Well I for one hopes Orlando never wins it. I just don't like how
shaq got the Superstar label put on himbefore he even played a game!
Chap
|
| 10.3379 | | SMART2::CHILDS | JJS the BucketsMaster | Thu Jun 15 1995 17:44 | 5 |
| In Stern's interview with Costas last night he said he doubted that the 3
pointer would be moved back. The owners/rules committee likes the way it has
changed the game.
mike
|
| 10.3380 | Rumor... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 15 1995 18:30 | 1 |
| BJ Armstrong is being left unprotected for the expansion draft.
|
| 10.3381 | labor negotiations | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Tue Jun 20 1995 16:53 | 20 |
| The local rag printed some rumors about the new collective bargaining
agreement. According to Marc Fleisher, who's a_agent and on the agents
committee (along with David Falk) leaked these "details";
o Contract would run for 6 years expring at the end of the
2000-2001 season.
o Cap would be 23 mil for nexted year (thised year it's about 16
mil).
o Rookie wage cap (what the guy can earnn). All rookie contracts
are for 3 years and fixed at the average salary of the player
selected in his position over the lasted 6 years.
o Larry Bird exception still exists - a team can re-sign a veteran
for any amount regardless of the cap. There may be some kinda tax
for temas that use this exception to go over the cap.
Fleisher claims that if'n the above is true, there's no way the players
will sign, at least those still left in the union. He labeled it "the
worst deal in sports".
TTom
|
| 10.3382 | Agents trying to run basketball | INTER::NAZZARO | Celtics coach? I'm available! | Tue Jun 20 1995 17:28 | 17 |
| Well, it's gone from bad to worse. Instead of greedy players battling
with idiot owners, the NBA now is featuring mega-greedy agents trying
to pull the rug out from an agreement between greedy players and idiot
owners. This is enough to make you puke.
From what I understand, the new collective bargaining agreement would
allow teams to still be able to pay their own players whatever they
want, but tax the teams 50% over how far above the salary cap the
megadeal puts the team. For example, let's say Shaq's contract is
up. The team, minus Shaq, is $2 million under the cap. Orlando signs
Shaq for an average of $6 million a year. They must pay a 50% tax on
$4 million, or get rid of that much in salary. I see absolutely
nothing wrong with this proposal. The agents fear it may cut down on
the megadeals for the league's superstars, so that the Larry Johnson 12
year, $84 million deal would be a thing of the past. Is that bad?
NAZZ
|
| 10.3383 | taxes or hard cap | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Tue Jun 20 1995 18:34 | 19 |
| re: tax
From what i can understand, the tax would take effect after thised nexted
season, 95-96. Like Nazz said, it starts at 50% of what you're over for
that year, and rises to 100% for the remainder of the contract.
Of course, another rumor is that the league may go to a hard cap in which
you can pay anyone anything but it all counts, a la NFL.
> nothing wrong with this proposal. The agents fear it may cut down on
> the megadeals for the league's superstars, so that the Larry Johnson 12
> year, $84 million deal would be a thing of the past. Is that bad?
I just wish this deal was never signed. If'n anyone needs to see what
happens to someone's motivation after they become completely and filthy
rich, watch LJ and then look at some of his earlier efforts. Just watch
LJ's rebounding stats drop.
TTom
|
| 10.3384 | ready when you are | CNTROL::CHILDS | Watch out Big Brother's watching! | Wed Jun 21 1995 13:26 | 10 |
|
Geez, I'm slipping anyways Ron Erickson won the NBA contest and has his
choice of a CD or Tape from CBS. The beauty of it is Ron's a hudsonite
like myself so it'll be an easy transfer.
Ron, I got a few catalogs stashed in my cabinet that I can drop off for you
to make a selection from whenever you're ready. Just give me your cubicle
location or it's some secret place perhaps we can meet in the cafe......
mike
|
| 10.3385 | More on NBA negotiations | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Wed Jun 21 1995 13:39 | 24 |
| Some more supposed/rumored details of the NBA negotiations:
Players would get a minimum of 57.5% of all league revenues. Revenues
would include properties. Lasted year, the players got a single payment
of 500K. By the end of the agreement, they would get a minimum of 25 mil.
The player tax is a little complicated. Firsted of all, the club has to
have a payroll that exceeds 63% of its gross revenues. The tax starts at
50% of what the club is over and ends up 100%. The money goes to the
teams with the lowest gross revenue. Veterans would be able to sign for a
raise of 10% without taxing the team.
Free agency starts after three years. All players would then be free
agents - no restricted free agents any more. Right of firsted refusal
ends. Current contracts remain in place.
Salary minima are 200K for rookies and 225K for veterans.
The two rounds of drafting continue through 87, then 1 round for the rest
of the agreement. Vancouver and Toronto would get a second choice in 98.
Player reps would be a part of the competition committee.
TTom
|
| 10.3386 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Jun 21 1995 15:00 | 7 |
| >The two rounds of drafting continue through 87, then 1 round for the rest
>of the agreement. Vancouver and Toronto would get a second choice in 98.
I like this. With all of the 1st-round busts and 2nd-round surprises we've
seen, there should be a number of good players available as free agents.
And drafts picks that aren't lottery picks should be traded away more
freely than they are now.
|
| 10.3387 | Tax to playoff pool? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Jun 21 1995 15:45 | 18 |
| The nba still has a major structural problem around the real worth of
the superstars (which has to inlude their marketing worth) vs the
everyday 3-8 players who have been making 2.5-4 mil. Each tier has
been inflating their salaries off the other. There's really about 5
tiers with Michael on a throne of his own, Shaq,Hakeem,Barkley and a
few others, the Shawn Kemp thru Alonzo Mourning tier, the celtics ilk
tier and finally the untouchables.
Now one solution to the "tax" problem which could also be a solution to
the "tier" problem would be to put the tax into the championship pool.
This would also have the added benefit of having the players play the
real season for real money.
Unfourtunately the nba, a tv league, thinks like tv producer people and
prefers predictable, regular season shows. Perhaps because they are
getting away with reaping the big post-season revenues without having
to pay the players much extra they prefer not to think about this
irony.
|
| 10.3389 | | SMART2::CHILDS | Watch out Big Brother's watching! | Wed Jun 21 1995 18:47 | 2 |
|
Ok Karen, I'll be on vacation though from the end of the month till July 17th..
|
| 10.3390 | Bulls fined for Jordan's 23 | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Thu Jun 22 1995 13:01 | 10 |
| The league has spoke:
The Chicago Bulls were fined $100K because Michael Jordan wore #23
instead of his assigned #45. It should also be remembered that Jordan
told all of us that he'd never wear #23 again.
I guess nexted year he'll just come out wearing 23. One can only wish
that he sticks to making Bugs Bunny movies.
TTom
|
| 10.3391 | as the ncaa looks on in envy | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 22 1995 15:08 | 10 |
| Good ol' nba gets it on both ends. Jordan pulls terrific publicity
stunt leading to eventual 20% improvement in ratings points and
ultimately cash for the nba coffers and then they send a bill TO the
provider of the service.
Now where does fine money go? Boys clubs, Vo-Tech for all the Jordan
wannabees that missed out on the first round of education and find that
their basketball skills won't cut it (call it the Herren fund).
Or do they use the funds for their outings.
|
| 10.3392 | Agreement or not? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 22 1995 19:54 | 12 |
| An agreement has been reached, I read awaiting ratification. It
appears that the 5-12 level players like the cap, money setup but the
stars have a problem. It appears like the mediocre talents are doing
the negotiating as opposed to baseball where Clemens and Cone etc were
in the limelight.
Also despite agents revolt they should have the numbers to ratify. Now
if that 100 or so fax-men decide not to play as a group who knows. NBA
could be the ultimate candy-cane castle if a strike were to occur -
total folly.
|
| 10.3393 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 22 1995 19:56 | 8 |
| > appears that the 5-12 level players like the cap, money setup but the
> stars have a problem. It appears like the mediocre talents are doing
> the negotiating as opposed to baseball where Clemens and Cone etc were
> in the limelight.
Gee, pro basketball's version of the haves versus the havenots.
Good for the havenots !
|
| 10.3394 | Great way to represent a union! | PCBUOA::MORGAN | | Fri Jun 23 1995 11:34 | 4 |
| Actually, it appears that Simon Guirdine is doing the negotiating in
privacy. The players seem to be in the dark completely.
Steve
|
| 10.3395 | | PSDVAX::ROBICHAUD | Do You Believe Now! | Fri Jun 23 1995 11:46 | 7 |
| I can certainly understand why the agents are pushing their clients
into decertifying the union. If a rookie minimum wage is implemented there
will be no more 60-80 million dollar bonanza contracts (with the agents
getting 10% or more of this windfall) mandating the agents work much harder
for their money.
/Don
|
| 10.3396 | just say no to agents | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Fri Jun 23 1995 15:20 | 6 |
| The reason the agents don't like this is if'n there's a rookie cap,
there's not need for a_agent. All you can get is the lasted 6 or 7 years
for your slot, plus or minus 20% so why do you need to pay someone a
couple of mil for negotiating that fer you.
TTom
|
| 10.3397 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Fri Jun 23 1995 15:28 | 6 |
| TTom I was thinking the exact same thing. Rookies are generally
the only available "new blood" for agents to expand their stable
of players. I'd take my chances and then pick up an agent in
three years when the contract is up.
Jimbo
|
| 10.3398 | wipes | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Fri Jun 23 1995 17:11 | 11 |
| The list of agents on the agents committee reads like a who's who of
wipes.
David Falk leads the list. If'n you wanna know the consensus of opinion
on him, live in a town where one of his guys is negotiating a contract.
Like Zo and the Hornets. Supposedly, what Falk has in mind for Zo makes
LJ's contract look like small potato[e]s.
Arn Tellem is on it, too. He of Kendall Gill fame.
TTom
|
| 10.3399 | I guess the basketball players haven't learned anything from MLB | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Jun 23 1995 17:16 | 3 |
| Hopefully the agents will succeed in getting decertification and the NBA
(with a history of successful negotiation) will succeed in negotiating
a contract even worse than the one the players are rejecting.
|
| 10.3400 | SNARF | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 23 1995 17:36 | 1 |
| 10.3401 | Olympic invitees | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Fri Jun 23 1995 18:54 | 8 |
| The initial invites to the Olympic team for 96 have been published:
Hakeem, Mailman, Stockton, Shaq, Penny, The Admiral, Grant Hill, Big Dog,
Reggie Miller and Pippen.
Two more will be added when the invitations officially go out.
TTom
|
| 10.3402 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | D. A. R. R. Y. L. | Fri Jun 23 1995 19:58 | 4 |
|
???? No Zo?? No Jimmy Jackson????
|
| 10.3403 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jun 23 1995 20:11 | 1 |
| 10.3404 | 96 OLYMPIC TEAM INVITEES | HOTLNE::FWATSON | | Sun Jun 25 1995 23:42 | 2 |
| HAKEEM CANNOT PLAY FOR THE U.S. TEAM. HE IS A NIGERIAN NATIONAL.
|
| 10.3405 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Mon Jun 26 1995 12:14 | 6 |
|
I believe he got his U.S. citizenship within the last year or so.
AND STOP SHOUTING!
Roland
|
| 10.3406 | Facts, quesses and rumors requested | TOOK::BKWAL | | Mon Jun 26 1995 13:21 | 15 |
|
Does anyone have some predictions/projections on the NBA draft? I'm
particularly curious about what Milwaukee and (I'll dive into a bunker
after mentioning this one) Cleveland are looking for.
There was alot of talk in Milwaukee about the Bucks making the playoffs
next season. Not a legitimate championship contender but getting some
experience playing for the big prize instead of ping-pong balls.
As for Cleveland are they going to keep going with the ICU crew or are
they looking at a partial/full rebuild?
Thanks,
Bill K.
|
| 10.3407 | Just to clarify | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Steve Sherman @MFR DTN 865-2944 | Mon Jun 26 1995 14:01 | 8 |
| Yes, Hakeem Olajuwon is now an American citizen. However, he requires a
waiver from the international federation to play for the US, because he
played for a Nigerian junior team against foreign competition when he was
about 15 or 16. It is prohibited to play for the national teams of more
than one country. The waiver is by no means automatic, but will have a
lot to do with how the functionaries feel about Hakeem and/or the USA.
Steve
|
| 10.3408 | My best guess | VERBOS::NAZZARO | Bring ALexi Lalas to Boston! | Mon Jun 26 1995 14:25 | 73 |
| NAZZARO 1995 NBA MOCK DRAFT
FIRST ROUND
1) Golden State - Jerry Stackhouse 6-6 G/F North Carolina (assumes they
dump Hardaway or Sprewell; otherwise - Smith #1, McDyess #2, Stackhouse #3)
2) L.A. Clippers - Joe Smith 6-10 F Maryland
3) Philadelphia - Antonio McDyess 6-9 F Alabama
4) Washington - Rasheed Wallace 6-10 F/C North Carolina
5) Minnesota - Kevin Garnett 6-10 F Farragut HS
6) Toronto - Bryant Reeves 7-0 C Oklahoma State
7) Vancouver - Ed O'Bannon 6-8 F UCLA
8) Detroit - Cherokee Parks 6-10 F Duke
9) New Jersey - Shawn Respert 6-3 G Michigan State
10) Miami - Corliss Williamson 6-7 F Arkansas
11) Milwaukee - Damon Stoudamire 5-10 G Arizona
12) Dallas - Mario Bennett 6-9 F Arizona State
13) Sacramento - Randolph Childress 6-2 G Wake Forest
14) Boston - Sherrell Ford 6-7 F Illinois-Chicago
15) Denver - Gary Trent 6-7 F Ohio
16) Atlanta - Alan Henderson 6-10 F Indiana
17) Cleveland - Brent Barry 6-6 G Oregon StAate
18) Portland - Tyus Edney 5-11 G UCLA
19) Portland - Lou Roe 6-7 F UMass
20) Chicago - Rashard Griffith 6-11 C Wisconsin
21) Phoenix (from LA Lakers) - David Vaughn 6-9 F Memphis
22) Charlotte - Kurt Thomas 6-9 F TCU
23) Indiana - Bobby Sura 6-4 G Florida State
24) Dallas (from New York) - Michael Finley 6-6 F/G Wisconsin
25) Orlando - Andrew DeClerq 6-10 F Florida
26) Seattle - Lawrence Moten 6-5 G Syracuse
27) Phoenix - Zydrunas Ilgauskas 7-2 C Lithuania
28) Utah - John Wallace 6-8 F Syracuse
29) San Antonio - Loren Meyer 6-10 F Iowa State
SECOND ROUND
30) Detroit (from LA Clippers) - Eric Williams 6-8 F Providence
31) Chicago (from Minnesota) - Travis Best 5-11 G Georgia Tech
32) Washington - Donny Marshall 6-7 F UConn
33) Boston (from Phil. via Utah) - Junior Burrough 6-8 F Virginia
34) Golden State - Anthony Peele 7-0 C Fresno State
35) Vancouver - George Zidek 7-0 C UCLA
36) Toronto - Cuonzo Martin 6-6 F/G Purdue
37) Washington (from Detroit) - Scotty Thurman 6-6 G/F Arkansas
38) Milwaukee (from NJ via Orl.) - Jimmy King 6-5 G/F Michigan
39) Miami - Fred Hoiberg 6-4 G Iowa State
40) Golden State (from Mil. via LA Lakers) - Corey Alexander 6-1 G Virginia
41) Houston (from Dallas) - Greg Ostertag 7-0 C Kansas
42) Atlanta (from Sacramento) - Rick Brunson 6-4 G Temple
43) Milwaukee (from Boston) - Tom Kleinschmidt 6-6 F/G DePaul
44) Denver - Donald Williams 6-3 G North Carolina
45) Atlanta - Tony Maroney 7-1 C Hawaii
46) Cleveland - James Forrest 6-7 F Georgia Tech
47) Sacramento (from Port. via GS) - Fragan Tariac 6-10 F Serbia
48) Minnesota (from Chicago) - Constantin Popa 7-3 C Miami
49) Minnesota (from Houston) - Eric Snow 6-2 G Michigan State
50) Golden State (from LA Lakers via Sea.) - Chris Carr 6-6 F Southern Illinois
51) Sacramento (from Charlotte) - Petey Sessoms 6-7 F Old Dominion
52) Indiana - Terrence Rencher 6-3 G Texas
53) LA Clippers (from New York) - Corey Beck 6-2 G Arkansas
54) Seattle - Jerome Allen 6-3 G Penn
55) Golden State (from Orl. via Sea.) - John Amaechi 6-10 F/C Penn State
56) Phoenix - Ray Owes 6-8 F Arizona
57) Atlanta (from Utah) - Derek Kellogg 6-2 G UMass
58) Portland (from SA via Houston) - Donnie Boyce 6-6 G/F Colorado
NAZZ
|
| 10.3409 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Mon Jun 26 1995 14:33 | 5 |
| Nazz,
I caught you sneaking Kellogg in there as one of the last picks.
He can't possibly be rated that high......
Jimbo
|
| 10.3410 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Mon Jun 26 1995 14:48 | 6 |
|
...even more frightening was the inclusion of Constantin Popa. I didn't
think it was possible for someone 7'3" to disappear, but Popa manages that
trick regularly.
Roland
|
| 10.3411 | we could have a good draft pool - | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon Jun 26 1995 16:06 | 15 |
| I think you're dead wrong about Popa but this looks like an opinion
draft to beat them all and a lot of people are going to be second
guessing themselves. It also looks like the Celtics made the best
choice of going for the playoffs since I don't see much consensus
among the draft geniuses after #6.
I also read there are some half decent players available for draft
swaps and with the slots that the C's have they could take advantage of
that and still end up with Wallace and Burrough. They also look like
they could have a decision to make on Childress who has the potential
to be a big star.
Speaking of slots brings up negotiations and Bob Ryan kicked in
yesterday with his opinion that the players are kicking around the
golden goose to their severe peril.
|
| 10.3412 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Mon Jun 26 1995 20:30 | 15 |
|
>> 4) Washington - Rasheed Wallace 6-10 F/C North Carolina
>> 5) Minnesota - Kevin Garnett 6-10 F Farragut HS
>> 6) Toronto - Bryant Reeves 7-0 C Oklahoma State
>> 7) Vancouver - Ed O'Bannon 6-8 F UCLA
Anyone, who takes any of the first three over Ed O'Bannon, needs
his head examined. What more can the kid do? He's got the J, can
score off the dribble and has decent inside game. He's led his
team to the national title and seems to be mature beyond his years.
So you'd pass him up for a kid who went into his shell against OSU,
a raw high school kid or a big bruiser with the footspeed of a
war memorial? Makes no sense to me.
|
| 10.3413 | he blew it out once, and it's not 100%... | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 26 1995 20:34 | 4 |
| > Anyone, who takes any of the first three over Ed O'Bannon, needs
> his head examined. What more can the kid do?
Prove his knee is in better shape than the team doctors think it's in.
|
| 10.3414 | which is quicker, an obelisk or a war memorial? | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Tue Jun 27 1995 13:41 | 12 |
| >or a big bruiser with the footspeed of a war memorial?
I really like watching Big Country play, but this just about
made me blow iced coffee out my nose... :-)
The only one of the three I *might* take over O'Bannon is Garnett,
simply because of the lure of potential. R. Wallace is a Dean-style
whiner, and Big Country will get killed defensively playing man-to-man.
Also, O'Bannon's maturity is not to be understated, especially in terms
of its benefit to an expansion team. For an example of the reverse situation,
look at the Laettner/Rider-led T'wolves.
|
| 10.3415 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Bonefish, SS-223, In Memoriam | Tue Jun 27 1995 13:44 | 20 |
| > <<< Note 10.3414 by IMBETR::DUPREZ >>>
> -< which is quicker, an obelisk or a war memorial? >-
I think it would depend on the shape of the war memorial.
An obelisk has some height, but probably doesn't move to fast.
Any war memorial that has legs (like the statue of the three soldiers down by
the Wall in Washington) probably has quicker speed, because it has legs.
So, my answer would be if the war memorial has legs, then the war memorial.
Otherwise, the obelisk.
Now, the burning questions is:
If da Bearss were playin' without Coach Dikka, could they
beat a war memorial, and what would dah score be?
|
| 10.3416 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Tue Jun 27 1995 13:47 | 10 |
| >If da Bearss were playin' without Coach Dikka, could they
>beat a war memorial, and what would dah score be?
I was up feeding my daughter last night, and saw one of those skits on
an SNL rerun on Comedy Central. The prediction for the upcoming
Bears/Giants tilt:
Bears, 31 Giants, -7
The reason for the "-7": "Ditka will find a way..."
|
| 10.3417 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Bonefish, SS-223, In Memoriam | Tue Jun 27 1995 13:51 | 1 |
| Those were some of my favorite skits on SNL in the past 10 years.
|
| 10.3418 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jun 27 1995 14:08 | 2 |
| In a boxing match would a Soldiers Field beat a War Memorial
Auditoreum?
|
| 10.3419 | | CAMONE::WAY | USS Bonefish, SS-223, In Memoriam | Tue Jun 27 1995 14:21 | 7 |
| > In a boxing match would a Soldiers Field beat a War Memorial
> Auditoreum?
Depends on whether or not the War Memorial Auditorium had sky boxes or not.
Remember, he who holds the high ground.....8^)
|
| 10.3420 | Assists or Rebounds? | TOOK::BKWAL | | Tue Jun 27 1995 16:09 | 18 |
|
RE: 10.3408
Thanks! Stoudamire sounds like a decent fit for the Bucks. If
they didn't lead the league in turnovers it seemed like they
were in the running. How's he on the defensive end? There was
a rumor floating about that the Bucks were looking to move up
and take Reeves (or hope he slides to 11). The deal was the
Bucks giving up the 11 and 38 picks (plus something else) and
hoping Eric Snow was around at 43. Doesn't sound like Big
Country can play the up-tempo game but they could stop playing
their 'who-me-play-D?' center trio. Snow (supposedly) is a
solid defender if not nearly the offensive threat Stoudamire
is.
Is Brent Barry for Cleveland the old Best Availible Athlete type?
Thanks again for the draft projection.
|
| 10.3421 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Tue Jun 27 1995 17:53 | 9 |
| > Anyone, who takes any of the first three over Ed O'Bannon, needs
> his head examined. What more can the kid do?
>>Prove his knee is in better shape than the team doctors think it's in.
30 points and 17 rebounds in the NCAA title game is all the proof
I'd need. Arkansas had three potential draft choices on the floor
and O'Bannon was head and shoulder above all of them including the
Big Nasty.
|
| 10.3422 | Looks good to me!! | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | Willie the Wimp in a Cadillac Coffin | Tue Jun 27 1995 18:19 | 3 |
|
Local rag reports O'Bannon will go seventh, some of the team DR's are
afraid of his arthritic knee.
|
| 10.3423 | When I heard about his widowed bride | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jun 27 1995 18:39 | 9 |
| Glove has a nice draft preview today, I have to agree with Tommy tho my
west coast prejudices are hard to overcome but O'Bannon looked
terrific. Nice Agannis article, and yes I do know where I was the
minute I heard about his death.
Looks like Sura for the Celtics - I think they see some Hondo in him
and Bird likes him and Larry had last year down to Jones and Montross
(not hard) and probably will cast the deciding vote (except there's
probably only two these days with dj and .5 maybe).
|
| 10.3424 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Tue Jun 27 1995 20:03 | 16 |
| >> Nice Agannis article, and yes I do know where I was the minute
>> I heard about his death.
I must shamefully admit that though I have been a lifelong resident
of Mass. I did not know how great an athlete Harry Agganis was. All
I knew of him was that there is a high school all-star football game
held in his honor every year. I didn't know that in junior high
he could hit major league pitching and did. I didn't know that he
was drafted in his junior year at BU by Paul Brown because Brown
thought Agganis was worth a year's wait and was perfect to replace
31 year old Otto Graham. I didn't know about the high school and
college records that Agganis set. Or that every Greek Orthodox church
in North America and South America held funeral services upon his
untimely death. Folks call him the greqatest athlete this region has
ever produced and I'd guess that until today most folks my age only
associated his name with a high school football game.
|
| 10.3425 | he's gone if available at 21 | OUTSRC::HEISER | National Atheists Day - April 1 | Tue Jun 27 1995 23:21 | 1 |
| 10.3426 | Deja Vu guarenteed. | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same | Wed Jun 28 1995 02:23 | 4 |
| 10.3427 | Go for the IU boys | SMART2::CHILDS | Watch out Big Brother's watching! | Wed Jun 28 1995 10:59 | 8 |
|
I don't understand why unless it's the white factor. Sura to me is a 2nd
rounder at best. If the Celts have a clue, they ought to take Alan Henderson
if he's still available. I worry about his knees abit but his heart and smarts
are above average. In fact I'd take him and then come back with Evans in the
second round.....
mike
|
| 10.3428 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Wed Jun 28 1995 11:56 | 10 |
| Sura can handle and shoot the rock. Definite first round material.
Mikey you have to turn the station once in a while from IversonTV
over to an ACC game.....
Will Harrington ever make 1st team all Big East????
Tell Joe who Kirk King is......
Jimbo
|
| 10.3429 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same | Wed Jun 28 1995 13:11 | 12 |
| 10.3430 | High School sports written up much more in them days | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Jun 28 1995 14:58 | 17 |
| Tommie,
This may come as a surprise or not but another storied high school
athlete of the same era as Agannis was Jack Kerouac. That was the era
of high school hype and hyberole (the type of thing Groaner detests in
others) and storied catches and runs were discussed over soda fountains
for years afterwards.
I was only 10 when Harry died and I only really knew him from his
baseball card and batting average. In those days there was one
immortal, Ted Williams; a mere god, Milt Schmidt and the rest of the
Lepcios,Toppazinis and Umphletts of the world. BU virtually abandoned
football after Harry left.
I guess my reaction to the weeping and wailing was "Geesh, you'd think
Ted himself had died".
Billte
|
| 10.3431 | UConn: Two Reg Titles, Two DNPs in BET | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Jun 28 1995 15:47 | 7 |
| > Tell Joe who Kirk King is......
All I can come up with about Kirk Who is "DNP" in the boxscore.
Come to think of it, I think he played a few minutes at Conte Forum
the night BC's frontline could do whatever it wanted against those
*big* boys of UConn.
|
| 10.3432 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Wed Jun 28 1995 16:09 | 7 |
| He's been brought along slowly by Calhoun. This year he explodes
onto the scene. 6'8" can run and leap, needs to develop a better
outside shot (who doesn't).
That BC game was the opening game of the BE season..........
Jimbo
|
| 10.3433 | Please keep racist remarks out of ::SPROTS | WORDY::NAZZARO | Bring ALexi Lalas to Boston! | Wed Jun 28 1995 16:11 | 19 |
| FLAME ON
I am really tired of some of the subtle and not-so-subtle racist
remarks that seem to popup consistently in this notes conference.
To me, it is incredible to compare ML Carr and Oil Can Boyd. The
ONLY thing these two men have in common is the color of their skin.
FLAME OFF
I was one of the first to come out against ML hiring himself as coach,
but I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially
since he has yet to prove he can't do it. Much of the same criticism
was made of him when he was named director of Basketball Operations,
but his first year showed more plusses than minuses, especially in
signing Greg Minor for no compensation and getting the 33rd pick in the
draft for essentially nothing. Let's see who he drafts tonight, then
bash or praise him.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3434 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Wed Jun 28 1995 16:25 | 3 |
| >He's been brought along slowly by Calhoun.
He's been brought along slowly by a lack of talent...
|
| 10.3435 | | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Wed Jun 28 1995 16:26 | 10 |
|
> Bears, 31 Giants, -7
>
> The reason for the "-7": "Ditka will find a way..."
If'n Handley were coaching...
glenn
|
| 10.3436 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | National Atheists Day - April 1 | Wed Jun 28 1995 16:30 | 1 |
| 10.3437 | learn the shot | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Wed Jun 28 1995 16:53 | 15 |
| > Sura can also play spots 1-3.
I used to think that his best shot was at the point but I think he's best
at the 2. If'n I can say this with a straight face, I'd compare him to
Kendall Gill, cough, cough.
Searingly, his strengths are taking it to the hole while his outside shot
is good at best and certainly not something that you can count on. Like
Gill, he's a very good athlete with quickness, speed and strength. He
seems to know how to play as well.
Sura might be able to play some at the 3, too. At either 2 or 3 he should
take the Scott Burrell Course on Outside Shooting.
TTom
|
| 10.3438 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Wed Jun 28 1995 17:16 | 5 |
| wow Burrell teaching a course in outside shooting. He was the epitome
of a streaky shooter in college. Sura was a better shooter in
college than Burrell was. Before you ask, I never have stats......
Jimbo
|
| 10.3439 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed Jun 28 1995 17:19 | 5 |
|
>> Sura can also play spots 1-3.
Sura can step right in for Majerle and the Suns won't miss
a beat.
|
| 10.3440 | got the good shot | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Wed Jun 28 1995 17:27 | 13 |
| Somewher between his firsted and his seconded year, Scott developed a
very serious outside shot. With the 3 point line coming in, he really
stepped up. At one point, afore his injury, he was leading the league.
Also, at about the same point, he was being talked up for the Most
Improved Award. Alas, when he blew his achilles, this was lost with the
rested of his season.
I got some stats but dang if'n I can find 'em. ;-)
And just getting Dunder off've the floor woulda helped. Play 'em 4 on 5.
TTom
|
| 10.3441 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same | Wed Jun 28 1995 19:46 | 12 |
| 10.3442 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same | Thu Jun 29 1995 11:11 | 19 |
| 10.3443 | | SMART2::CHILDS | Watch out Big Brother's watching! | Thu Jun 29 1995 12:24 | 12 |
| While I favored Henderson going in I got no complaints with Eric Williams.
He's probably got a better upside than Henderson. He reminds me of Bernard
King, who hopefully minus the injuries he can play like. I'm sure Billte is
happy. I also like Junior so for the first time in a long while I'm happy
with the draft........
Nazz, any ideas why your man Ford fell so. Talking about falling how the
hell did Griffth fall that far. I must have seen his best game ever at
Wisconsin cause the game I saw he was a lottery pick. Kinda like Lou Roe
vs. Arkansas.........
mike
|
| 10.3444 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 29 1995 14:14 | 5 |
| > While I favored Henderson going in I got no complaints with Eric Williams.
You'll be very happy the C's didn't draft Henderson. I see NO desire
in his game. Williams' whole game is built around desire. Ditto DeClerq,
who the C's could have drafted in the 2nd round.
|
| 10.3445 | sloooooow | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Thu Jun 29 1995 14:26 | 8 |
| I don't know the Celtics opinion but the local one about DeClerq was that
they were very high on him until they brought him into camp. He was
declared incredibly slow with little or no movement. He was promptly
scratched from any further considerations.
Maybe some other teams thought the same.
TTom
|
| 10.3446 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 29 1995 14:52 | 3 |
| Marty Conlan is making a career in the NBA. I saw more in college from
highlights of DeClerq than I saw from Conlan at PC. I think DeClerq will
produce in the NBA.
|
| 10.3447 | Marty! | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Thu Jun 29 1995 15:01 | 7 |
| Maybe he should go the same way as Marty who worked hard for a while in
the CBA to develop and has really come on. I was real impressed with him
during his stint with the Bugs.
Not a star but a very adequate sub.
TTom
|
| 10.3448 | Still learning the game | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Thu Jun 29 1995 17:21 | 18 |
| >> Marty Conlan is making a career in the NBA. I saw more in college from
>> highlights of DeClerq than I saw from Conlan at PC. I think DeClerq will
>> produce in the NBA.
Two very different players. Conlan has a good shot and his strength
is his offense. He gets eaten alive defensively though.
DeClerq's strength is his hustle, his defense and his rebounding,
he is very weak offensively. Granted my view of DeClerq is limited
to a few games (the two against BC and the one against Villanova
stand out in my mind) but I always liked what I saw in him and
wished the C's waould have picked him up. He is EXACTLY the type
of player ML was talking about: defensive minded, versatile, with
big upside potential. If he turns into a real player I will be
very dissapoointed in the C's for letting him get by.
Vinny
|
| 10.3449 | I suppose you can't teach height... | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Thu Jun 29 1995 18:11 | 4 |
|
...which is the answer to my own question:
"Why was Constantin Popa drafted?"
|
| 10.3450 | Even though they'd have taken Trent if they coulda | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 29 1995 18:45 | 13 |
| You'd have had to have seen him against Penn St. in the NIT which is a
much better test of nba potential than regular season Big East work,
reason being they play more wide open and a different kind of ref'ing
than BE. Popa has just improved year to year and will be a poor man's
Rick Smits.
But Junior Burrough in second round. What in the world do the nba
executive experts know that a casual tv fan is missing by letting him
slip to #33.
What's Mike Heiser saying about Bennett being there for Phoenix - is he
out celebrating? Also, I missed the draft so when the announcement
came on I said Eric Williams and it was so I win the pool.
|
| 10.3451 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Thu Jun 29 1995 18:52 | 16 |
|
I'm as happy about Eric Williams as I was about
Montross last year. Neither was the cream of the
draft but the Celts got good value for their pick.
It seems everyone you hear or read follows the
words "Eric Williams" with the words "constantly
improved" and "upside potential". In our position,
he was a good pick. My guy was Alan Henderson but
Eric'll do nicely. As for the folks who wanted Lou
Roe, no way. I loved Lou at UMass and if heart and
desire were enough, Lou'd have been a top three
pick. As it is, Lou doesn't have the range, the foot
speed or ballhandling skills to be an effective 2
or 3 nor the size to be a 4. The classic tweener
who will do well to eek out a decent living in the
NBA.
|
| 10.3452 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jun 29 1995 19:43 | 18 |
| I'm surprised nobody has made any comments about the big trade between the
Nuggets and the Clippers. The Nugs traded Rodney Rodgers and the 15th pick
for some guy named McDyess outta Alabama. The Clippers also threw in some
guy I've never heard of. McDyess was the 2nd overall pick. The Denver news
media already has labeled this as a steal. I don't know much about McDyess.
Is he really that good to be the 2nd overall pick ? Rodney Rodgers has shown
flashes of brilliance but that only seems to happen one outta 3 nights. He
also makes a lot of ticky tack fouls while playing defense. Maybe in the
future, he'll find a way to show up every night and learn to play some
defense but right now, I think Biekerstaff made the right move.
When asked about the trade, Biekerstaff said he needs insurance at power
forward because there are doubts that Laphonso Ellis will ever recover
from his injuries.
So does anyone have an opinion on McDyess ? How good is he ?
Keith
|
| 10.3453 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | | Thu Jun 29 1995 19:47 | 11 |
|
McDyess never put up really big numbers at Alabama, but had a *monster* NCAA
tournament (21 pts, 16 reb per game). The games I saw him, he looked like
a man among boys. *Extremely* agile, a great leaper, runs the floor well.
I'll let the real basketball mavens discuss it, but to me, it looked like his
picture belonged next to the term "power forward" in the dictionary. Gobs
of potential...
Of course, I also felt the same way about Rodney Rogers... :-)
Roland
|
| 10.3454 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 29 1995 20:01 | 8 |
| If the NCAA/NIT tourneys are better proving grounds for the NBA than
collegiate regular season play, McDyess proved to have monster NBA
potential. His average was something like 12-13 ppg during the
regular season, and then he comes out and throws in 35(?) in the 1st
round and 20-something in the 2nd. And Alabama was (I think) a
middle seed, so they weren't playing Easy_U.
Roland's comments are right on.
|
| 10.3455 | Couldn't t he Celtics be creative for once? | WORDY::NAZZARO | Bring ALexi Lalas to Boston! | Thu Jun 29 1995 20:13 | 13 |
| McDyess averaged 13.9 ppg and 10.1 rpg in the regular season, then had
three great games in the SEC tourney, averaging 21 ppg and 16 rpg.
Then in the NCAAs he had 39 and 19 in anOT win vs Penn and 22 and 17
in a loss against Big Country and Oklahoma State.
My question is - if the Nuggets could draft Barry at #15 and send him
to t he Clippers with the wildly inconsistent Rodney Rogers to get
McDyess, why couldn't th e Celtics have done the same thing? Draft
Barry, send him and Rick Fox (who has similar numbers as Rogers) to
LA for McDyess? It would have been nice if the Celtics had done this
instead of playing it safe in the draft, as usual.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3456 | All year: super Mario this, super Mario that; and then | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 29 1995 20:22 | 12 |
| Yeh, I agree; lookup power-forward in the nba dictionary and there's
mcdyess. Possibly the surest thing in the draft. I thought Brian
Williams was their power guy but I guess you can't have too many.
I didn't even know Troy Brown was in the draft - he's a sleeper.
Somehow a college gets an imprint - UCLA had the sleek forwards in the
70s (Marques,Wilkes; now OBannon); Providence somehow has come up with
the formula for power forward.
Finally to show how one just never knows, Mike Heiser isn't celebrating
he's whining about Sun's picks because they didn't pick up one of the
Joe Kleine clones proliferating in the draft.
|
| 10.3457 | Incroyable | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 29 1995 20:28 | 3 |
| How in the world could anyone figure or plan for Cy Sterling to have
another "Vitale" and go nuts. ML obviously would have jumped at your
plan but Bernie must have something really big on "Cy".
|
| 10.3458 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same | Thu Jun 29 1995 20:53 | 4 |
| 10.3459 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | National Atheists Day - April 1 | Thu Jun 29 1995 20:57 | 2 |
| 10.3460 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jun 29 1995 21:01 | 16 |
| > I thought Brian
> Williams was their power guy but I guess you can't have too many.
Laphonso Ellis was their power forward but he missed the entire season
except for about 3 games with a knee injury. Now his other knee has the
same problem. The Fonz looked like a budding superstar before his
injury. Now, there is fear that he'll never play again.
Brian Williams was used as a backup to Mutumbo as well as power forward
backup. Rodney Rodgers was used as the starting power forward most of the
year but he was really playing out of position as he's better at small
forward. Brian Williams had injury problems and like Rodgers, was
inconsistent last year. Although Rodgers was definately the most
inconsistent player on the team.
Keith
|
| 10.3461 | I bet you do like that | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 29 1995 21:09 | 8 |
| I missed that Mike, I was actually straight about thinking getting
Mario is what you wanted. I guess pro scouts agreed with you.
I think Denver is now set to make a serious run once the contract is
settled and they can deal Pack for a forward or backup center
(Parrish?).
Hey, TTom, do you want Pack for Parrish?
|
| 10.3462 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jun 29 1995 21:17 | 6 |
| Denver drafted a 7' backup center in the 2nd round. I don't remember his
name or where he's from. They also have Brian Williams who has played
a decent center while Dikembe rests. There's no way Biekerstaff will
go for Parrish or any other older backup center.
Keith
|
| 10.3463 | Moronahornets | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jun 29 1995 21:26 | 9 |
| Well as I told ttom the bugs never did have a clue as to how to use
Parrish and the team was to set in their ways to take advantage of his
unique skill which is surprisingly at his age, the ability to run the
floor and take the medium range jumper before the defense could get
set.
I saw this a few times vs Bulls but do you think they'd make it part of
the plan, nooo - too many egos involved in particular one mr
megabuck-waste Johnson.
|
| 10.3464 | More players to be added | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | I have no answers | Fri Jun 30 1995 14:00 | 24 |
| The Denver press is reporting that the "whole" trade has not yet
been announced, that they have to wait for the new collective
bargaining agreement before the final elements of the trade can be
made public.
The whole deal will be:
LA Clippers get: Rodney Rogers, Brent Barry, Brian Williams
Denver Nuggets get: Antonio McDyess, Randy Woods, Elmore Spencer
The Clips then have a lineup of:
guards: Pooh Richardson, Terry Dehere, Brent Barry
forwards: Rodney Rogers, Lamond Murray, Loy Vaught
center: Stanley Roberts(?), Charles Outlaw(?)
Denver looks like:
guards: Jalen Rose, Bryant Stith, Robert Pack
forwards: Reggie Williams, Antonio McDyess, Tom Hammonds,
Laphonso Ellis (IF he recovers from knee injuries)
centers: Dikembe Mutombo, Elmore Spencer
Both teams look better than they did at the end of last season ...
Vinny
|
| 10.3465 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Jun 30 1995 14:10 | 4 |
| Interesting comment on WFAN last night:
The NBA forced Ted Stepien out of the league after he ruined
Cleveland, and they should do the same with Sterling.
|
| 10.3466 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | National Atheists Day - April 1 | Fri Jun 30 1995 16:00 | 1 |
| 10.3467 | This puts Clipps about on a par with C's personnel wise | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Jun 30 1995 16:27 | 3 |
| you fogot Mahmous Abdul-Rauf (my main man) at guard for Denver. And
the inclusion of Williams changes the deal completely and makes it at
least rational for San Diego if you take money into the equation.
|
| 10.3468 | Great trade... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed Jul 05 1995 18:32 | 9 |
| Been on vacation for a few weeks....
I am ecstatic about the addition of McDyess to the Nuggets. Williams
and Rogers were both inconsistent at best last year. Rogers has great
potential but is not a power forward. Williams on the other hand will
only be a backup center. McDyess has the potential to be a superstar.
McDyess has a vertical leap of 47" and is 6'9". The guy has rebounding
instinct and a apparently great work ethic. I am looking forward to
seeing him develop...
|
| 10.3469 | Denver did the best job in the draft | WORDY::NAZZARO | Bring ALexi Lalas to Boston! | Wed Jul 05 1995 19:48 | 12 |
| I agree that the deal is a great one for the Nuggets. Rogers thinks
he's Danny Ainge when he should be playin' like Anthony Mason!!! Brian
Williams is OK but limited. Denver added two backup centers for
Mutombo, and the best power forward in the draft. IMO, they are a
legitimate contender for the Western Conference title right now.
Why couldn't the Celtics have drafted Barry and made the same deal,
with Rick Fox (who has similar numbers to Rogers) or even Dino?
Instead, the Celtics fall back on that "best available athlete"
cliche, and there is a wide range of opinion if they even got that.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3470 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove! | Wed Jul 05 1995 20:19 | 11 |
|
>> Why couldn't the Celtics have drafted Barry and made the same deal,
>> with Rick Fox (who has similar numbers to Rogers) or even Dino?
For the same reason that they drafted Williams instead of Roe.
Numbers don't always tell the whole story or even most of it.
Nobody uses the words "Rick Fox" and "potential" in the same
sentence unless "trade bait" fits in their somehwere too.
Fox is a career role player *at best*. Rogers could develop
into a real contributor.
|
| 10.3471 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | Traveling through another dimension | Wed Jul 05 1995 20:30 | 9 |
|
Nuggets have a long way to go before they contend for the western
conference title. They still need to find a coach, so the guy they have
now can go back to being a GM and stop pretending to be a coach.
This team has come great young talent, but still need to get some
seasoning before they will contend for a title. They would never
make the playoffs with the old format.
|
| 10.3472 | I know - you don't win games on paper | WORDY::NAZZARO | Bring ALexi Lalas to Boston! | Thu Jul 06 1995 15:44 | 10 |
| Seems to me Bickerstaff did a great job as coach. WHy should he not
continue in that job?
GIven their personnel, the addition of McDyess certainly makes them on
paper the equal of San Antonio, and perhaps a shade better than
Houston. But the Rockets proved championships are not won on paper, so
I will amend my previous statement and say that the Nuggets have the
potential to be Western Conference champs.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3473 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jul 06 1995 16:44 | 32 |
| I also think Bickerstaff will be just fine as the coach.
But I don't think the Nugs will contend for the Western Conference
championship next year. McDyess appears to have tremendous potential but
I think it will take at least another year before he'll be able to establish
himself as a premier power forward. Remeber, he was just a sophmore
at 'Bama which makes him 19 or 20 years old.
The strength of McDyess is supposed to be his toughness, rebounding and
defense. He'll be playing next to the premier defensive player in the NBA.
Dikembe will be able to teach McDyess a thing or 2. This means, in the next
few years, the Nugs should have a great inside defense, maybe the best in the
league. This should translate into lot's of blocked shots, turnovers,
rebounds and altered shots. All of which should result in lot's of fast
break points.
For half court offense, the Nugs will be average at best. The only real
threat will be Rauf, when he's hot. They'll need those transitional
hoops which the defense should setup.
The Nugs need more depth at small forward and they may need more depth at
power forward if Laphonso doesn't recover from surgery on both knees.
Jalen Rose needs to mature. If he doesn't play better next year, he could be
gone.
The Nugs match up well against Houston. With Mutumbo, they don't double
team "The Dream". Akeem will still score his 30 points but the single
team allows the Nugs to play better defense on the Rocket's 3-point
shooters. Next year, the Rockets, Spurs and maybe the Jazz will still
be better teams but the watch out for the Nugs the year after next.
Keith
|
| 10.3474 | Some questions remain for Nuggets | WORDY::NAZZARO | Bring ALexi Lalas to Boston! | Thu Jul 06 1995 18:20 | 7 |
| How good is Bryant Stith? Can he swing to small forward? Can Rose
possibly play some small forward? How will Robert Pack fit into
the mix? He was terrific early in the season, but injuries really did
him in. Also, he and Mahmoud can't play together for the same reason
that Sherm and Dee are a liability on the court together.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3475 | there is some work left... | BSS::MENDEZ | | Thu Jul 06 1995 18:36 | 11 |
| McDyess will develop into a good scorer simply because of his
rebounding ability. I don't think you will see many tips like that
of Rodman. Denver needs a legitimate, consistent scoring threat.
Either Pack or Rauf need to go in place of an outside scoring threat.
With regard to Bickerstaff: He is well known for spotting talent but
his coaching ability seems suspect. The Sonics could never get over
the hump when he was coach. Of course the Lakers had something to do
with that. As a GM he is superior but I would like to see a coach who
can bring along young talent come to Denver. In two years Denver could
be real tough...
|
| 10.3476 | How about Fox for Pack? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jul 06 1995 19:19 | 11 |
| If the Celtics were going to get involved in that nuggests scenario
then the guy they should have gone after would be Williams who seems to
be the key to the whole deal. I do agree with Nazz that acquiring a
player like a Curry should have been considered.
Simply put the Celtics had absolutely nothing in their entire
organization to deal themselves into the McDyess realm except a future
draft choice which could have been Camby.
Fox for one had totally tuned Ford out so perhaps the coaching change
could be a benefit him
|
| 10.3477 | | PEAKS::WOESTEHOFF | | Thu Jul 06 1995 19:53 | 26 |
| > How good is Bryant Stith?
He seemed to be better 2 years ago than he was last year. He's a warrior,
he's strong and plays good defense. His offensive gave was spotty at best.
He's been criticized for being too much of a team player and passing up
good shots. If he doesn't play better next year, he could be gone.
> Can he swing to small forward?
Good question. He has the strength but I'm not sure of the heigth. Nobody
seems to talk about him playing small forward.
> Can Rose possibly play some small forward?
Yes. If his ball handling and his ability to bring the ball up the court
quickly doesn't improve, they might try him at small forward.
> How will Robert Pack fit into the mix?
Packman has a lot of critics in Denver but I like him. I think he's at his
best when he come off the bench and changes the pace. He brings the ball down
the court as fast as anybody in the NBA. This is an asset in the thin air
of mile high Denver. He's also fearless going to the hoop. Other times,
he looks out of control.
Keith
|
| 10.3478 | Rockets waive and might sue Maxwell | HBAHBA::HAAS | improbable cause | Wed Jul 12 1995 17:46 | 13 |
| Houston Rockets have waived guard Vernon Maxwell and are considering
suing him for allegedly faking a_injury. Maxwell claimed to have a leg
injury after the firsted playoff game but later admitted that he left on
accounta not getting any playing time.
The Rockets are considering filing a breach of contract suit against
Maxwell and, if'n they are successful, avoid the 1.8 mil of his lasted
year under contract.
As a minor side note, he was waived just before the lockout started so
Mad Max is without a home, at this point.
TTom
|
| 10.3479 | MicroShaq | HBAHBA::HAAS | time compressed | Tue Jul 18 1995 13:34 | 6 |
| Seems ol' Bill Gates and Shaq are jamming.
Microsoft is gonna offer a_on-line service called Shaq World. Details are
to be announced today. It's part of the new Microsoft Network.
TTom
|
| 10.3480 | | PSDVAX::ROBICHAUD | Don'tTakeComedyFromStrangers | Wed Jul 19 1995 12:03 | 4 |
| After the job Hakeem did on him in the Finals maybe they should
call the service Shackled World...
/Don
|
| 10.3481 | rowing backwards | HBAHBA::HAAS | time compressed | Wed Jul 19 1995 13:58 | 8 |
| Speaking of Hakeem and Shaq has anyone else notice that Shaq is rowing
the boat backwards? Look at it. Hakeem is sitting up front, over the bow.
Shaq is in the back and the flat back is almost perpendicular to the
water.
Which was about the way Shaq dealt with Hakeem in the playoffs.
TTom
|
| 10.3482 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jul 20 1995 18:21 | 14 |
| Heinsohn blasted Jordan today in the glove for jeopardizing the nba
players union which he helped establish along with Cousy and others.
A veterans group with Cousy and Pettit are meeting in New York to help
with a rapprochement but Tommy cam out firing today.
I still feel that the union is asking a bit of Jordan and perhaps a few
other megastars to play for less for the good of all. I sounds good and
decent but goes against the grain of modern greed - the same greed
that's demanded in other spheres of the market (eg if Michael Jordan
was a registered corporation with stockholders he would be legally
bound to hold out for more money).
Of course Michael had to watch his image which is worth millions on top
of any salary he could be paid.
|
| 10.3483 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | The dream is always the same | Thu Jul 20 1995 18:37 | 3 |
| 10.3484 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Where is the grass greener? | Thu Jul 20 1995 18:59 | 13 |
|
The big issue with Heinsohn and Cousy. Is that the new CBA
had a provision in it for players who retired pre-1965. Players who
retired before 1965 would have there pension money increased. If the
new CBA isn't agreed upon, those players won't see an increase in
there pension.
This upsets Cousy because he started the Players union in the
1st place. Both Cousy and Heinsohn spent a lot of time helping the
union plus are past presidents of the players union. This lockout
not only effects current players. It also effects older retired
players. Jordan is playing with other peoples livelihood.
Ron
|
| 10.3485 | the singular case of Michael Jordans | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jul 20 1995 19:39 | 17 |
| But the question still remains as to why Michael should accede
generously to an agreement for which the end result is he doesn't get
paid anywhere near his worth.
This happens a lot in entertainment where a rock group starts out as a
"team" and then one becomes a star and goes out on his/her own to get
comensated by the measure of her (I'm thinking of Diana Ross) own
ability. In some cases members of the team (band) are offered much
less to continue, in other cases house musicians are hired to take
their place.
20-30 million per year is about the outrageous but equitable amount
Michael should be paid per year, I'm sure he'd settle for about half.
Under the agreement proposed he'll be lucky to make 1/4 his worth.
That is the problem, but I'm sure it can be negotiated and I think
Michaels actions are negotiation tactics.
|
| 10.3486 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The stars might lie, but the numbers never do... | Thu Jul 20 1995 19:54 | 21 |
| > This happens a lot in entertainment where a rock group starts out as a
> "team" and then one becomes a star and goes out on his/her own to get
> comensated by the measure of her (I'm thinking of Diana Ross) own
> ability.
Bad example. Diana Ross was *nothing* without the Supremes.
>In some cases members of the team (band) are offered much
> less to continue, in other cases house musicians are hired to take
> their place.
There are a lot more house/backup musicians in this world than NBA-caliber
basketball players. And therein lies the rub. Even if they aren't as great
as the star, their relative rarity would still require that they got a more
significant portion of the pie...
Roland
P.S. See, Bill. Not a single mention of conspiracy or paranoia... :-)
|
| 10.3487 | | CAMONE::WAY | Software Mortician | Thu Jul 20 1995 20:25 | 19 |
| >Bad example. Diana Ross was *nothing* without the Supremes.
Yeah, that's why she had to become Michael Jackson.....
>There are a lot more house/backup musicians in this world than NBA-caliber
>basketball players. And therein lies the rub. Even if they aren't as great
>as the star, their relative rarity would still require that they got a more
>significant portion of the pie...
It's been my experience that studio musicians are the most talented of the lot.
They come in, have about 10 minutes to look at a chart, then sit down and cut
it.
TOUGH racket, and extreme talent required....
'Saw
|
| 10.3488 | But nba owners are so nice, deep down | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Jul 20 1995 21:13 | 12 |
| The problem is we're in a star based culture, I don't like it, Joe
doesn't like, 'Saw hates it. The kids love it.
So all the money in the nba is generated by these stars and the irony
is the nba is applauded because they recognized it way back and
marketed the hell out of Michael while baseball was droning on with its
tradition that the under 30 crowd could give a fig about.
Now Michael's saying I made you, you paid me peanuts now it's my turn!
And what's the nba saying? "Michael, its a team game and those #11,12
guys need to earn a mil apiece too, we just ain't got the simoleons for
you, please be nice."
|
| 10.3489 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Where is the grass greener? | Fri Jul 21 1995 02:33 | 6 |
|
Without NBA basketball, Michael doesn't making MILLIONS from
NIKE. IMO the Union and the NBA has made Jordan enough money.
Besides Basketball is a TEAM game, the TEAM should stick together.
ROn
|
| 10.3490 | Holland, Doizer and ???? | CNTROL::CHILDS | Watch out Big Brother's watching! | Fri Jul 21 1995 12:17 | 9 |
|
I really like Dianna with or without the Supremes myself. I think her
decline had more to do with leaving the songwriting team they enjoyed.
Anyways for a better example, I'd say Jimi Hendrix, who could have me
banging trashcan, and Saw on spoons in the background and still carry
it off. Of course on the other end of the spectrum you have Clapton
who was and still is nothing since leaving Cream..........
mike
|
| 10.3491 | Diana Ross and Michael Jordan - two of a kind | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | RIP Andrea 1/18/85 - 7-21/94 | Mon Jul 24 1995 19:31 | 16 |
| Diana Ross indirectly killed Flo Ballard and never showed any remorse
about it at all. She was and is a manipulative bitch who only cared
about herself. Even today I switch the radio to another station if a
Supremes song comes on.
As for Jordan, I am amazed at how he is being so easily manipulated by
his agent. The question isn't whether or not Jordan gets paid what
he's worth. He will. The real sticking point in the contract is the
salary cap for rookies and the untold millions that would cost the
agents. With this new agreement, the $90 million for an unproven Chris
Webber for example would never be able to be signed. He'd get a decent
salary as a top pick, but nowhere near the ridiculous megabucks that an
unproven rookie did not deserve. If Jordan thought this through, he
would be in favor of the new agreement.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3492 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The stars might lie, but the numbers never do... | Mon Jul 24 1995 20:25 | 18 |
| > Diana Ross indirectly killed Flo Ballard and never showed any remorse
> about it at all. She was and is a manipulative bitch who only cared
> about herself. Even today I switch the radio to another station if a
> Supremes song comes on.
Don't hold back, Nazz. Tell us what you really think... :-)
To me, Diana Ross is a classic example of someone who was nowhere near what
she was once she went solo. And the sad thing about it is that she probably
still thinks she was better off.
But I don't let her keep me from listening to Supremes songs. That would be
a victory for her that I will not concede...
A *great* Tank McNamara in the Glove(tm) sports section today. Substitute
Michael Jordan for the player in the comic strip.
Roland
|
| 10.3493 | maybe Mike's like us only on a grander scale | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon Jul 24 1995 20:33 | 11 |
| A person who is an expert on greed (a lawyer) told me once that people
hate to do something that benefits someone else even if they reap a
benefit themselves. This doesn't go for true christians (of all
religions) but in the mercantile arena it seems to be a learned vice,
perhaps even a valued vice.
I just think that 1., Mike can't stand only getting 5 million and
seeing all the 2-3 million dollar players
Second Mike would like to be the center of a bidding war and then feel
he was getting his maximum worth.
|
| 10.3494 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The stars might lie, but the numbers never do... | Mon Jul 24 1995 20:42 | 4 |
|
Yeah, Bill, but more importantly:
What's your stance on Diana Ross?
|
| 10.3495 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jul 25 1995 16:04 | 6 |
| Roland are you forgetting it was me that made that analogy in the first
place? I think she lost it all when she listened to her agent and
dropped Flo and went off on her own. I remember seeing her at Hampton
about '64 or so.
|
| 10.3496 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The stars might lie, but the numbers never do... | Tue Jul 25 1995 16:39 | 6 |
| >Roland are you forgetting it was me that made that analogy in the first
>place?
No, I'm not your age so I haven't lost my memory yet... :-) :-)
You used the analogy, but I was looking for your opinion of her a la Nazz...
|
| 10.3497 | Clooney>Ross | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Jul 25 1995 18:02 | 9 |
| speaking of...(what was I talking about??)
Gary Player was saying that he wanted a supersenior tour for the 70s
and 80s golfers. "We'll play three holes and whoever can remember his
score wins."
And, if you want a songstress and she's still going strong...
Rosemary Clooney
|
| 10.3498 | | CAMONE::WAY | Software Mortician | Tue Jul 25 1995 18:22 | 14 |
| >
> And, if you want a songstress and she's still going strong...
>
> Rosemary Clooney
C'mon-a my house....8^)
Never forget her in White Christmas...
Me, I wanna go see Tony Bennett.
|
| 10.3499 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The stars might lie, but the numbers never do... | Tue Jul 25 1995 18:35 | 9 |
| >
> And, if you want a songstress and she's still going strong...
>
> Rosemary Clooney
I'm with you, Bill.
She's definitely had less plastic surgery than Diana Ross. And she still
looks pretty young for her age.
|
| 10.3500 | | CAMONE::WAY | Software Mortician | Tue Jul 25 1995 19:07 | 1 |
| Hey, she's a BABE!
|
| 10.3501 | why write the same thing twice | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Jul 27 1995 14:24 | 19 |
| <<< HUMANE::DISK$CONFERENCES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;3 >>>
-< Welcome to the Boston Celtics Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 227.25 Another Sport with Labor Problems 25 of 25
USCTR1::GARBARINO 13 lines 27-JUL-1995 10:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm glad to see the NLRB's decision yesterday: secret ballot (at regional
NLRB offices) and all players who played in the NBA this past season
(minimum of 2 10-day contracts) get to vote. The players wanted only
those on active rosters at the end of the season to vote. The owners
got a big 'W' yesterday.
The vote is to take place late Aug or early Sep. With that much time
for the owners to work their propaganda machine, and seeing training
camps coming in a few weeks, I can't see the union voting to de-certify.
Both parties (especially the union, after yesterday's decision) should
get an agreement done before this vote is taken.
I just can't believe they'd both be as stupid as MLB !
|
| 10.3502 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Mon Jul 31 1995 16:24 | 8 |
| What's the deal with the Dream Team? Unbelievable they let a wuss
like Robinson go a third time while Zo at the moment anyways stays
home. USA Basketball must be made up of bunch of retired Service
men. Also can't understand why Malone, Stockton and Pippen get to
go again. I'm pretty sure they didn't sell more T's than Michael,
Larry, Magic or Chuck.........
mike
|
| 10.3503 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Jul 31 1995 17:55 | 5 |
| > I'm pretty sure they didn't sell more T's than Michael,
> Larry, Magic or Chuck.........
I think Dream Team II turned people off. I'm sure they wanted guaranteed
acceptance of this squad, especially playing on home turf.
|
| 10.3504 | midnight agreement | HBAHBA::HAAS | bugged | Wed Aug 09 1995 13:54 | 21 |
| Wail, it looks like there may be a_NBA season after all.
Just prior to midnight, the self-imposed deadline, the league and the
players reps reached a tentative agreement for a player contract. The
union has schedule a vote for Aug 30. Also, at that time, the players
will vote on decertification as previously scheduled.
The new agreement represents some compromise on the main issues.
Basically, it calls for the current salary cap to continue without some
of the new features agreed upon before Jordan's agent decided he needed
to make more money. The details include exceptions and exemptions and the
Larry Bird clause There is no luxury tax on payrolls exceeding the cap.
I can't find any report of a rookie cap. The implication is that this has
been tossed out since they refer to the agreement as basically extending
lasted year's salary cap.
Predictably, Falk, the other agents and their stooges such as Jordan are
badmouthing the contract.
TTom
|
| 10.3505 | Mailman blasts agents and players who want to decertify | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | How can people live in Florida? | Tue Aug 15 1995 14:21 | 51 |
| Reposted (with some editing) from the Celtics note:
Karl Malone had some interesting comments in today's Globe. In a
typically strongly opinionated interview with basketball beat writer
Jackie McMullin, he said he is very much in favor of the new agreement,
and had some very strong words for those in favor of decertification.
Malone said he's having a hard time stomaching "anybody that is dumb
enough to believe decertification is the right move for NBA players."
"Dertification is the dumbest move we could possibly make," said
Malone. "All these big-time players - and I don't need to mention
names, because we all know who they are - should step up and look at
themselves in the mirror."
Jackie wonders how can NBA basketball save itself unless all the
players are on the same page, and notes that the high-powered group led
by Jordan, Ewing and some select agents favor decertification, while
the player's association is urging its peers to allow the union to
negotiate its future. She also notes that there have been no summer
camps, no rookie leagues, league meetings set for September are already
cancelled, and the McDonalds Classic is in serious jeopardy.
Back to Malone. "I've always been proud to wear the NBA on my shirt
and my shorts and my socks. But now it's embarrassing. But forget
about me. Forget about the agents. What about the fans? Do they
really think the fans are going to put up with this (decertification)?
The players who are part of this are not leaders - they're followers."
"As far as I'm concerned, any players on the Utah Jazz who want to
decertify are scabs," said Malone. "That's how I'll look at them from
now on. Scabs. I will sit down with Larry (Jazz owner Larry Miller)
and make it clear to him that's how I feel."
Asked if he knew which teammates signed on with the decertification
movement, Malone answered, "No. All I know is it's not not Karl Malone,
John Stockton, or Jeff Hornacek." Jackie then states that for the
record, Jazz players who have requested decertification are Antoine
Carr, Felton Spencer, Blue Edwards, Byron Russell, and Jamie Watson.
Not surprisingly, Jackie found some agents pushing for decertification
who took umbrage with Malone's remarks. "If Karl Malone feels so
strongly about this," wondered Ron Grinker, "then how come he hasn't
been to any of the meetings?"
Malone blames the agents for causing the division between the players.
"The hell with the agents," he said. "Show me one agent who ever put
his players interests ahead of his own."
NAZZ
|
| 10.3506 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | | Tue Aug 15 1995 14:39 | 5 |
| Sorry I haven't been paying attention what with the BoSox and all but just
what is the issue here? What is decertification and what are they fighting
over?
George
|
| 10.3507 | In a nutshell? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Tue Aug 15 1995 14:58 | 9 |
| Simon Gourdine reached an agreement with the nba which included a
luzury tax. Jordan and others called for rejection and a vote to
decertify the union. That vote will be taken at the end of the month.
Gourdine went back to the table, told nba no agreement no season (Stern
said same). They reached an agreement last week and the union will
vote for it at the end of month.
Obviously decert has to fail for the second vote to take place.
|
| 10.3508 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | | Tue Aug 15 1995 18:58 | 3 |
| Any word on how much support there is among the players for decertification?
George
|
| 10.3509 | A short history of the summer's NBA labor strife | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | How can people live in Florida? | Tue Aug 15 1995 18:59 | 22 |
| Just to amplify on the previous response.
The player's union reached an agreement with the owners that included a
luxury tax of 50% when teams reach a certain payroll, and a rookie
salary cap that would virtually eliminate those ridiculous Chris Webber
$84 million salaries. Simon Gourdine, new head of the union, did not
keep lines of communication open with the players, which led many to
distrust the contract. The inclusion of the rookie salary cap made
agents crazy. A few superstars (Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing as
leaders), led by their agents, began a decertification of the union.
So the original contract never came to a vote of the entire union.
In the meantime, the union went back to the owners, said that they
needed to rework the contract, and they did. The luxury tax is gone,
and the rookie cap is less severe, among other things. However, the
vote on decertification will take place before ratification of the
contract, and if the players vote to decertify, the start of the season
will be in serious jeopardy. If decertification fails, then the rank
and file will vote on the contract. The voting is scheduled for the
end of August.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3510 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Tue Aug 15 1995 19:14 | 6 |
| I hope somehow the season gets scrapped and Patrick decertifies his way
out of $18M.
I don't have much hope for the Knicks in '95-96, so it's better if they
don't even play it and next year we start over with all kinds of cap
money available.
|
| 10.3511 | Conspiracy du jour | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Reasonable summer rates | Tue Aug 15 1995 19:21 | 6 |
| Wonder how much money the NFL, College Football and Basketball are
gonna send the NBA players to vote for decertification?
Yours ever vigilant on the grassy knoll:-)
UMDan
|
| 10.3512 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | Tribe owns Yanks... bye in playoffs if they meet | Tue Aug 15 1995 21:21 | 5 |
| 10.3513 | re: -1 | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Aug 15 1995 21:30 | 15 |
| 10.3514 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Wed Aug 16 1995 12:20 | 2 |
|
maybe if Barkley played in the East he'd become a man again.......
|
| 10.3515 | don't fix it if it ain't broke | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Aug 16 1995 15:37 | 2 |
| 10.3516 | low class Jordan | HBAHBA::HAAS | x,y,z,time,matter,energy | Wed Aug 16 1995 15:38 | 19 |
| > maybe if Barkley played in the East he'd become a man again.......
Ya mean, like join up with Promise Keepers? :*)
As to how much support, ESPN radio was talking this morning with one of
the agents, a guy named Kaufman who hadles Ronnie Seikaly and 'Nique, and
he wouldn't even address the fack that the luxury tax has been
eliminated. He acted like today's issue, the players' cut from
paraphenalia, was the big issue all along. Charles Smith was on earlier
and predicted that this is what Kaufman would do.
So among a lot of players is becoming more and more evident that the
agents and their pawns like Jordan are less and less interested in other
players much less the game itself.
But we shall know by end of Labor Day Week if'n the rank and file turn
their back on these pariahs.
TTom
|
| 10.3517 | stay tuned | HBAHBA::HAAS | x,y,z,time,matter,energy | Wed Aug 16 1995 17:00 | 10 |
| The decertifiers are having a rally and press conference today in
Chicago, home of the principal pawn of posturing, Jordan.
Along with Ewing and a hopefully misguided Zo, they will attempt to
delight and bemuse the media in hopes of making their case why it's worth
cancelling the entire season so Jordan can make 36 million instead of 35.
I'm sure ESPN will show it.
TTom
|
| 10.3518 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | Tribe owns Yanks... bye in playoffs if they meet | Wed Aug 16 1995 23:05 | 3 |
| 10.3519 | Re: -1 | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Aug 16 1995 23:19 | 1 |
| 10.3520 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Sep 08 1995 16:42 | 1 |
| 10.3521 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | | Fri Sep 08 1995 16:43 | 4 |
| According to the Globe, there was a lot of activity as the vote neared the
end. They didn't have results yet but said both sides were predicting victory.
George
|
| 10.3522 | | GLRMAI::FINIZIO | | Fri Sep 08 1995 17:47 | 3 |
|
results will be announced on Tuesday
|
| 10.3523 | Much more interesting than the game | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | There ain't no sanity clause | Mon Sep 11 1995 09:57 | 10 |
| > Did the Branch Jordanians get their way with the vote yesterday?
-----------------
Beautiful, Mike.
My understanding is also that the results will be announced tomorrow.
But aren't there a few diligent journalists out there looking for a
leak?
Steve
|
| 10.3524 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Sep 11 1995 16:27 | 4 |
| 10.3525 | | BSS::MENDEZ | | Mon Sep 11 1995 17:14 | 2 |
| I thought the NBA was using DEC hardware???
|
| 10.3526 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Sep 11 1995 19:37 | 5 |
| 10.3527 | | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Give it to the kid! | Tue Sep 12 1995 19:12 | 9 |
| NBA Vote results -
In favor of new agreement - 226
Against - 134
Looks like His Airness lost out.
UMDan
|
| 10.3528 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | | Tue Sep 12 1995 19:16 | 5 |
| Are the results in on the vote to dump the union? The way I heard it
explained, the vote for or against the agreement was only good if the
players voted to keep the union. Does that still hold?
George
|
| 10.3529 | | MYLIFE::mccarthy | Mike McCarthy SHR3-1/P32 237-2468 | Tue Sep 12 1995 20:48 | 5 |
| The vote to decertify failed. I think they still need to
vote to ratify the agreement, but I get the impression that
it is just a formality.
Mike
|
| 10.3530 | we'll see | GLRMAI::FINIZIO | | Wed Sep 13 1995 00:46 | 5 |
|
anyone really think jordan, patrick, and falk will just say ok?
they can ask for an appeal which takes 4-6 weeks to happen..
|
| 10.3531 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Sep 13 1995 00:50 | 1 |
| 10.3532 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The stars might lie, but the numbers never do... | Wed Sep 13 1995 13:15 | 8 |
|
The vote was 63% to 37% - a pretty substantial margin. Something like 360
players voted, with about 60 no-shows. Even if all of the no-shows voted
for decertification, it wouldn't have passed.
I believe the contract vote is supposed to come up soon.
Where is MAirB to defend the Branch Jordanian(tm) point of view?
|
| 10.3533 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Sep 13 1995 15:10 | 9 |
| 10.3534 | Retire/unretire between every season-- yawn... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Wed Sep 13 1995 15:11 | 9 |
|
> Big news locally, now that the Branch Jordanians have lost, is that
> Charles will play not only this season, but a couple more as well.
Now there's a shock. Charles just can't get enough attention...
glenn
|
| 10.3535 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! Kill! | Wed Sep 13 1995 15:14 | 7 |
|
>> Big news locally, now that the Branch Jordanians have lost, is that
>> Charles will play not only this season, but a couple more as well.
Must be a slow news days in Phoenix if Charles deciding not to retire
for the 87th time qualifies as 'big news'.
|
| 10.3536 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Sep 13 1995 15:25 | 5 |
| > anyone really think jordan, patrick, and falk will just say ok?
> they can ask for an appeal which takes 4-6 weeks to happen..
Funny, isn't it Bob ? The majority in the *union* speaks, yet the
dissidents may appeal it. What's a mother to do.....????
|
| 10.3537 | And oh, btw Karl; time for you to shut up too | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Sep 13 1995 15:45 | 24 |
| Well Mairb isn't around (perhaps he's at the Grammarian convention) so
I'll have to try. Not that Jordan is one of my favorites since he
exemplifies the form over content approach that ruled the nba a few
years back and besides he welches on bets which reminds me of that
Major in Chu-Lai who wanted to play bridge at a dime a point.. but I
digress.
It is generally agreed that this is a poor deal for the players in that
it is, bottom line, a step back in terms of dollar share (thanks a lot,
I suppose to cap "violations"). Business week is my source for this
but I've seen "poor deal" in either SI or elsewhere. Jordan
specifically, of course loses out on a lot of potential revenue.
btw - did anyone watch 75 years of nfl on tnt last night? Back in the
20s Red Grange was the MJ of his day and tried to start his own league
to get his due (since 67,000 came to Soldier field just to see him, he
wanted x % of that 67k pie).
Unquestionably if any of us were in Jordan's shoes we'd want our just
due also, I don't see any philanthropists in this note. But at the
same time as fans (who posted that note) we have a right to the same
selfishness and I join you all in saying..
"Time to shut up and play, Mike; nice try but you lost"
|
| 10.3538 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Sep 13 1995 15:51 | 9 |
| > Jordan specifically, of course loses out on a lot of potential revenue.
I believe the "Larry Bird Exemption" is in this deal, isn't it ? That allows
a team to exceed cap restrictions to re-sign a top player.
I guess he might be hurt by this deal if he wants to change teams....
I'd also like to see a definition of "financial hurt" when it comes
to Jordan.
|
| 10.3539 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Sep 13 1995 16:00 | 6 |
| 10.3540 | Earth to Jordan: shut t.f. up | HBAHBA::HAAS | Network Consonant III | Wed Sep 13 1995 16:04 | 15 |
| I don't know how this costs Jordan money. It may cost the rank and file
money, which I don't necessarily buy into either, but not Jordan.
Right now, someone needs to sit down with Jordan and tell him he's
looking bad and stupid which will eventually eat into his real money, the
endorsements. So he loses a couple of mil on hoops money. Sign another
Wheatties, Nike, or McDonalds contract.
I think the Larry Bird Clause can be applied to Jordan. I think there's a
cap for how much the balloons and such can be - double current if'n I
remember correctly. And you can still pay 'em after they leave. He could
sign a new contract for 8 mil, that goes up 30% or so each year and still
make his money, albeit a bit deferred.
TTom
|
| 10.3541 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Wed Sep 13 1995 16:08 | 3 |
| I thought he quit baseball cause he sucked at it??????
mike
|
| 10.3542 | But when you're Michael Jordan you can define the truth | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | | Wed Sep 13 1995 16:18 | 9 |
|
> I thought he quit baseball cause he sucked at it??????
Well, yes, that was the real reason. The minor leagues where Jordan
was going to be stationed indefinitely were not impacted by the
strike...
glenn
|
| 10.3543 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed Sep 13 1995 16:33 | 18 |
| >Funny, isn't it Bob ? The majority in the *union* speaks, yet the
>dissidents may appeal it. What's a mother to do.....????
First let me state that I don't necessary agree these individuals
but...
100 years ago it was the majority opinion to discriminate heavily upon
different races, creeds, and colors (yeah, there are still problems
today) Does the fact that the majority thought it was okay make it the
right decision?
Let the individuals make their protests, some legal decision will be made
and then we can all go on with the games one way or the other. If
there are no games, the casual fan like me will go mow the lawn for a
change 8^)
Marc
|
| 10.3544 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | | Wed Sep 13 1995 16:33 | 6 |
| And then there was always the danger that despite being a "really bad AA
baseball players" (his own words) if the strike had continued he might have
gotten called up as a replacement player just to fill the stands. That would
have been fun, MJ and Oil Can Boyde on the same team.
George
|
| 10.3545 | The rape of Michael Jordan (continued) | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Sep 13 1995 17:52 | 9 |
| Where either Michael or some voice close to him is coming from is
similar to the Red Grange comparison. His value is in direct
proportion to the league as a whole, if the league as a whole is a half
a billion industry then Michael wants 10-20% of THAT, just like Grange
did.
Of course if Red had reached a compomise with old nfl perhaps it
wouldn't have taken until the 60s for them to hit the bigtime (and a
lot of fun would have been lost too).
|
| 10.3546 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Wed Sep 13 1995 20:37 | 7 |
| > Let the individuals make their protests, some legal decision will be made
> and then we can all go on with the games one way or the other.
Marc,
What is illegal about this agreement ? Your analogy to the social crimes
of the past is quite a stretch.
|
| 10.3547 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | | Wed Sep 13 1995 20:55 | 13 |
| Here's a thought.
If there is probable cause that this guy committed a crime then why not
suspend him, give him his day in court, then
- If he's convicted, give him the boot
- If he's acquitted, let him resume playing the following season and if
he chooses play out the full 4 years of his career without this year
counting against him.
Seems easy enough and fair to everyone,
George
|
| 10.3548 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed Sep 13 1995 20:56 | 21 |
|
I didn't say that there was anything illegal about the agreement. I
said that an individual can invoke some legal decision by suing the
leaque. Probably on the grounds that the individual could not get fair
market value for the talent level due to the salary cap rules.
Personally I think such an arguement could be made convincingly enough
to warrent a legal decision. Today I don't think there is anything
illegal about the agreement, however an individual "could" get the
courts to make something illegal.
My analogy to social crimes of the past was to demonstrate that what is
perceived as legal today, may not be in the future. If said individual
successfully sued the league, then the agreement would be deemed
illegal, regardless of what percentage of the players union think
otherwise. The percentage of players voting on the agreement to go
into place has no bearing on legality.
Now do you understand what I was saying?
Marc
|
| 10.3549 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Eight and counting... | Thu Sep 14 1995 12:14 | 8 |
|
The player reps for each team. Voted on the new CBA for there
team, the vote was 26-2. The two teams not agreeing with the contract.
Were the Sacremento Kings and the Boston Celtics. So the players have
agreed to the contract. The owners will vote on Friday. If it passes
the lockout will be lifted.
Ron
|
| 10.3550 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Six and counting... | Thu Sep 14 1995 12:17 | 8 |
|
This isn't related to the NBA. The Harlem Globetrotters were
beaten. By an all-star team which had Kareen Abdul-Jabbar. Final
score was 91-85. Kareem went 14-15, with 34 points. Which stops a
8,889 (?) winning streak. First time since 1/15/71 that the
Globetrotters lost a game.
Ron
|
| 10.3551 | Anyone see Roger Bannisters comments re: Black Runners? | BSS::NEUZIL | Just call me Fred | Thu Sep 14 1995 13:11 | 19 |
| > <<< Note 10.3550 by SNAX::ERICKSON "Six and counting..." >>>
>
>
>
> This isn't related to the NBA. The Harlem Globetrotters were
> beaten. By an all-star team which had Kareen Abdul-Jabbar. Final
> score was 91-85. Kareem went 14-15, with 34 points. Which stops a
> 8,889 (?) winning streak. First time since 1/15/71 that the
> Globetrotters lost a game.
>
> Ron
Shoot Ron, you beat me to it. I cut the little snippet out of the
paper and was going to put it in. My rag says Jabbar went 15-16 and it
ended the Globetrotters 8829 winning game streak. But, I was going
to put it in the Junk note.
Kevin
|
| 10.3552 | Decert players have few options | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | NBA action - it's nonexistant | Thu Sep 14 1995 13:40 | 13 |
| Re. a few back:
I think it would be a real stretch for anyone in the NBA to try to
make a restraint of trade legal argument against the contract, since
there are provisions in the contract that allow for certain players ot
get paid more than what the market might normally bring. Since the
salary cap is not a strict "hard cap", some players can still command
outrageous salaries. I think it would only be restraint of trade if
a team was allowed only X amount of dollars under the cap with no
exceptions. Then a free agent could argue that his choice of teams is
limited. This contract doesn't do that.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3553 | ncaa should allow juniors,sophs back | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Sep 14 1995 17:48 | 7 |
| Given the cap on rookie salaries and the numbers given, especially for
second round players I would think it would be the responsible thing
for the ncaa to do to allow any player with eligiblity remaining to
return to their colleges.
Knowing the fascist,hypocritical,morally corrupt institution they are
they would never do it.
|
| 10.3554 | Lucas gets Maxwell | HBAHBA::HAAS | Network Consonant III | Tue Sep 26 1995 12:41 | 10 |
| Meanwhile, John Lucas continues to recruit the bad boys.
Lasted week, he signed Richard Dumas, he of much talent and strong
penchant for illicit drugs. Now it looks like the King of Bad Boys,
Vernon Maxwell is headed to Philly, too.
Supposedly, the deal is already done and they'll announce it officially
today.
TTom
|
| 10.3555 | some deals | HBAHBA::HAAS | arpecay iemday | Wed Sep 27 1995 14:47 | 14 |
| some goings ons:
The Celtics signed Junior Burroughs, who's local talent and went to
Virginia.
The Sixers agreed to a deal with Jerry Stackhouse, erstwhile Heel.
Atlanta signed Alan Henderson, he of MrT schooldom, Indiana.
Portland looks like it will sign Arvydas Sabonis, the much sought after
7'3" Lithuanian. It looks like they'll renounce rights to Terry Porter
and Mark Bryant in order to get under the cap.
TTom
|
| 10.3556 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Wed Sep 27 1995 15:03 | 4 |
|
Nazz, in a perfect world where the Celtics dump both Douglass and Radj,
would they have enough money under the cap to offer Zo the 8 to 10
million a year it's going to take to sign him?????????
|
| 10.3557 | not even the Bullets | HBAHBA::HAAS | arpecay iemday | Wed Sep 27 1995 15:19 | 6 |
| re: Douglas[s]
Supposedly, they caint give the guy away so the Celtics are either stuck
with 'im or can waive 'im for half his cap salary.
TTom
|
| 10.3558 | more signings | HBAHBA::HAAS | arpecay iemday | Thu Sep 28 1995 13:56 | 19 |
| it's hot and heavy time again.
Mark Price is traded from Cleveburgh to the Bullets for a future #1 pick.
The Randolph Childress-Billy Hurley trade to Portland for Otis Thorpe is
on hold cause Hurley flunked his exam. Both teams need this trade for cap
reasons.
The Bullets signed #1 pick Rasheed Wallace to a "standard" contract for 3
years.
Milwaukee signed #1 pick Shawn Respert to a "standard" contract.
Other signing include Tom Hammond (Denver) and Pete Chilcutt (Houston).
I don't know how much the rookies like this new contract arrangement but
it certainly simplifies this part of the business.
TTom
|
| 10.3559 | Mourning to Boston in 1996 a possibility | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Barros > Douglas | Fri Sep 29 1995 13:05 | 12 |
| From what I understand, the Celtics are still $2-3 million under the
cap right now, including a spot for Eric Williams. That is excluding
Derek Strong and Darryl Dawkins. ;-)
If they could foist Sherman on someone and didn't have to take an
enormous contract in return, they would indeed be able to give Zo
the $7-8 million he's looking for, since the salary cap will go up
by around $2-3 million nexted season. Or Dikembe Mutombo. I would
prefer Zo, since he could extend his career by playing a lot of PF
with that oaf Montross at center.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3560 | 'twould be typical | HBAHBA::HAAS | arpecay iemday | Fri Sep 29 1995 14:27 | 16 |
| Don't be surprised to see Zo being available.
When you look at the history of the Hornets, you're struck with the
incredibly lack of basketball and sports intelligence that dominates the
front office.
It would be just like them to sign LJ to a gazillion and scream bloody
murder when Zo, who is better and more valuable than LJ, wants more.
The best thing going for the Hornets are that they can offer Zo the most
in terms of the cap since they would be re-signing him.
Or maybe they'll just do a Kendall Gill: sign him, trade him, piss away
some players and draft choices, then trade to get him back.
TTom
|
| 10.3561 | NBA on NBC | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Tue Oct 10 1995 14:39 | 61 |
| 10.3562 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Oct 10 1995 15:07 | 1 |
| 10.3563 | NBC will be sorry | ACIS02::WIERSBECK | | Tue Oct 10 1995 19:37 | 4 |
| WHAT?! No T-Woof games???
Spud
|
| 10.3564 | I'm sure Dean taught him everything | HBAHBA::HAAS | conched out | Fri Oct 20 1995 17:10 | 20 |
| It may be a little early but I think we have a real strong candidate for
the Looking Stupid While Attempting a Cheap Shot (LSWACS) award:
Rasheed Wallace
Ol' Rasheed, he of erstwhile Tar Heel infamy, saw a fight break out
between his teammate Chris Webber and the Bulls' Luc Longley. Webber
cheap shotted Longley who did the down under mainly thang and let Webber
know that he weren't gonna take it no more. Well the two of 'em have at
it with many a wild punch. It was too much for Rasheed to resist. So he
takes the ball and tries to hit Longley with it. He missed and hit the
ref who was trying to break it up.
Longley and Webber got $7500 fines and will miss the opening game. This
is part of a new rule or at least a new enforcement where if'n you throw
a punch you're gone this game and the nexted, at least.
Rasheed got a $5K fine.
TTom
|
| 10.3565 | More PT for Jon Koncak in Orlando | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Barros > Douglas | Wed Oct 25 1995 12:45 | 6 |
| Shaq took a couple of hard fouls lasted night in game vs Heat, first
from Stacey King, then Matt Geiger. Result is some torn ligaments in
his thumb, and he could be out 4-6 weeks. Shaq is pissed vowing
revenge against anyone who dares to ever foul him again.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3566 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's pancake time! | Wed Oct 25 1995 13:07 | 12 |
| > Shaq is pissed vowing
> revenge against anyone who dares to ever foul him again.
So surprising...
He complained a lot about fouls in college, too. I think if I were 7'1",
305 lbs., I would *love* playing the power game, and all the stuff that goes
with it. Hail, you're bigger than just about anyone out there!
Maybe if he improved his free throw shooting, people would foul him less.
But then, that would take time away from the on-location shoots for his
commercials...
|
| 10.3567 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Wed Oct 25 1995 14:42 | 2 |
| 10.3568 | could be less | HBAHBA::HAAS | conched out | Wed Oct 25 1995 14:49 | 6 |
| I heard that the prognosis will be coming out today. They don't know how
bad Shaq's thumb is so it could be less than this 4 weeks.
Also, Webber is out for 4 weeks with his separated shoulder.
TTom
|
| 10.3569 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Wed Oct 25 1995 14:52 | 3 |
| 10.3570 | granted, hard to be a Webber fan | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Wed Oct 25 1995 15:18 | 9 |
| That's a disclocated shoulder. Appears to be chronic.
If Webber can't get it done it will be one of the bigger wastes of
talent, even more so than Derrick. I still expect him to become a
legitimate player but perhaps multi-millionaires competing is an
oxymoron.
Was reading Dom DiMaggio's book on 1941 and the world series shares in
those days were half the average salary - now there's incentive.
|
| 10.3571 | must be a RON | MKOTS3::tcc122.mko.dec.com::long | Some gave all... | Wed Oct 25 1995 15:36 | 6 |
| Hal who?
billl
|
| 10.3572 | | NQOS01::16.135.176.150::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Thu Oct 26 1995 04:00 | 1 |
| after tonight,anyway
|
| 10.3573 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Oct 26 1995 16:43 | 4 |
| I thought Montross looked a little better last night. He's a little
confused by sub refs - only regular refs and where they put him in the
nba centers caste system will tell whether he can achieve true
mediocrity this year.
|
| 10.3574 | Shaq out 6-8 weeks | HBAHBA::HAAS | conched out | Thu Oct 26 1995 17:11 | 9 |
| Don't know if'n this has been covered but Shaq will miss upt to 6-8
weeks.
Matt Geiger "blocked" him and broke his thumb. O'Neal vowed to apply the
Shaq Fu to the nexted guy who hacks him.
Yo Shaq, learn to hit the free throw and it'll help your cause out.
TTom
|
| 10.3575 | I'm now mentoring Shaq | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Thu Oct 26 1995 18:27 | 10 |
| Well surely he'll be using his rehab time practicing free throw
shooting 4-6 hours a day.
He should talk to Tommy Heinsohn who's theory was that for the ordinary
man as few moving parts as possible should be involved => a few things
can go wrong. A Bird or an Ainge could actuall "shoot" a ball with
wrists, touch etc 9.? out of 10 on sheer ability.
Tommy eshewed form and simply pushed the ball up, Rick Barry used a
similar philosophy only to the extreme, he underhanded it.
|
| 10.3576 | Montross looks like he should be a Hornet | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Barros > Douglas | Thu Oct 26 1995 19:02 | 10 |
| Yeah, Montross looked terrif lasted night - ONE rebound for the game!!!
Can you imagine how many he would have had if Hakeem were there?!?!?
Actually, once Houston went to a small lineup in the 2nd half, he was
totally lost. Once he had to guard Drexler on the wing. Once Sherm
and Doug Smith declined to double Clyde abused him as easily as my 14
year old abuses me on the court. But I have an excuse - I'm 30 pounds
overweight and 46 years old!
NAZZ
|
| 10.3577 | straight up for LeRon Ellis? | HBAHBA::HAAS | conched out | Fri Oct 27 1995 13:43 | 12 |
| > -< Montross looks like he should be a Hornet >-
>
> Yeah, Montross looked terrif lasted night - ONE rebound for the game!!!
That would put him about 3rd on the list of top Bug rebounders ;-).
Hey, Montross'[s] problems with rebounding are similar to Zo's. From what
I've seen in the pasted, he usually has very little help in the middle.
And add to that his insistance on covering ground slowly, he often ends
up planted.
TTom
|
| 10.3578 | Just wondering | IROCZ::BKWAL | | Thu Nov 02 1995 11:57 | 14 |
|
With the NBA regular season about to start I was wondering
about a couple of teams.
Is Milwaukee staying with their center-by-committee approach
or are they trying Mobley (or Duckworth) as a full time
starter? Has Duckworth shown anything or are the Bucks just
really desperate?
Has Cleveland really written off this season hoping for a major rebuild
via lottery and free agency next year? It seems every year this
team gets trashed but somehow manages to make things interesting.
Thanks
|
| 10.3579 | I'm a Fratello fan | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Barros > Douglas | Thu Nov 02 1995 12:24 | 7 |
| I think Cleveland is going to surprise a lot of people. Their team is
much younger than in previous years, and much more athletic, with
Brandon and Sura at the point. I think they are a center away from
being a legitimate title contender, but should make the playoffs
easily.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3580 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Nov 02 1995 13:57 | 1 |
| 10.3581 | NBA or MASH | IROCZ::BKWAL | | Fri Nov 03 1995 10:57 | 11 |
|
Jeeze, Duckworth out already. Looks like another year of musical
center unless Mobley can step up. Too bad, with a little stability
at center I think their frontcourt could play with anyone. Well,
if Shawn Respert is worth the price they paid perhaps they can be
still be playing for something other than ping-pong balls at
season's end.
Speaking (actually noting) about dinged up centers, would you know
if Cleveland put Brad Daugherty on IR? He's been having back problems
for so long I'm a bit surprised he hasn't retired before now.
|
| 10.3582 | Trade as described in Celtics note confirmed | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Nov 03 1995 16:46 | 1 |
| I see that Mourning trade is official, Rice confirmed it.
|
| 10.3583 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Fri Nov 03 1995 17:35 | 4 |
|
SOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
details please, I don't have ::Celtics in my notebook
|
| 10.3584 | Reposted - I heard it too | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Nov 03 1995 17:37 | 13 |
| <<< HUMANE::DISK$CONFERENCES:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;3 >>>
-< Welcome to the Boston Celtics Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 217.38 1994-95 NBA Transactions 38 of 38
WREATH::SCOPA 6 lines 3-NOV-1995 13:27
-< 'Zo's Gone >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys know that Mourning was just traded to Miami?
Mourning, Myers, and Ellis to Miami for Rice, Geiger, Reeves, and
Miami's #1 for '96.
Maj
|
| 10.3585 | I hope it's not true | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Fri Nov 03 1995 17:38 | 2 |
|
dam it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
| 10.3586 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Fri Nov 03 1995 18:09 | 3 |
| 10.3587 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Fri Nov 03 1995 18:47 | 15 |
|
IMO the trade doesn't make sense for Charlotte. Must mean it
was the best offer. Meaning the Lakers, Celtics and others. Weren't
offering what was rumored. Miami is looking down the road.
Charlotte now has Robert Parish, George Zidek, and Geiger at the
Center position. Plus they are already weak at the forward position.
Now they have a logjam at guard. The got a backup to Mugsy in Reeves.
Yet, have Glen Rice/Kendall Gill at SG. One of which will end up
playing small forward.
Miami looks pretty decent, except no point guard. The have Alonzo,
Kevin Willis, and Billy Owens up front. With Rookie Kurt Thomas and
LeRon Ellis as backups. Who is going to get the ball to Alonzo?
They have Bimbo Coles and rookie Terrence Rencher at the point.
Ron
|
| 10.3588 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Fri Nov 03 1995 19:57 | 21 |
| 10.3589 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Mon Nov 06 1995 11:59 | 6 |
|
Mourning supposedly agreed to a 4 year 44 Million dollar, extension
of his contract. Charlotte owner thinks Miami was tampering. By talking
to Zo before the trade was official.
Ron
|
| 10.3590 | any one else like the new refs????? | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Thu Nov 09 1995 15:44 | 27 |
|
Well the new season is upon as I must say I have enjoyed the games I've
seen. It must be the refs who actually call traveling, 3 -second
violations and for the most part don't have superstar/pecking order
established for who gets away with what. Sure they miss a few foul
calls here and there and generally let the boys plays but calling
travelling and such offsets the missed foul calls.
I found the new knicks actually enjoyable to watch. I like the new
Celtics' style. Just hope that ML learns to go with his best lineup
more than his supposedly weak stars. Last night's game the best lineup
he threw out there in the second quarter then didn't go back to was
Eric Williams, Rick Fox, Greg Minor, Junior Buroughs and Dana Barros
Williams could be a star and Minor's defense as compare to the squirts
is needed. Barros needs to stop pressing and just let it flow.
Unfortunely Montross is still the worst rebounding 7 ft 275 lbs person
I have ever seen.
Biggest downer so far, my favorite player Zo playing for my least
favorite coach. I'll bet TCM would enjoy my agonization as I'll
probably not root for Miami. Also on that note I noticed last's
nights Miami game score was in the 80's. Pat wake up and push the
ball will ya, you dam control freak........
mike
|
| 10.3591 | scabs | HBAHBA::HAAS | graffiti limbo | Thu Nov 09 1995 15:56 | 11 |
| > -< any one else like the new refs????? >-
Sure, I'd like new refs. These replacement scabs are horrible. They got a
lot of nerve calling it like it's a college game. How do you expect a guy
to jam it if'n he's not allowed to take 3 or more steps or hang out in
the lane indefinitely, etc.
Of course, it looks like these scabs got the word about Jordan cause they
don't seem to be looking at his stuff quite so closely.
TTom
|
| 10.3592 | 25% Just Won't Cut It | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri Nov 10 1995 13:34 | 8 |
| re: .3581
Speaking of Milwaukee, I hope Robinson's shooting percentage
picks up. In two successive games, he was 5/20 and 5/22.
Last night, he was 5/12.
I guess double figures is pretty easy when you shoot the ball
20+ times.
|
| 10.3593 | Baker > Robinson, no contest | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Barros > Douglas | Fri Nov 10 1995 14:17 | 4 |
| He was 9-24 in the opener vs the Celtics. Vin Baker saved the game for
the Bucks.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3594 | let 'em play (like in the Digital League) | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Nov 10 1995 17:00 | 4 |
| > -< any one else like the new refs????? >-
Given I think the NBA refs determine more outcomes than any other
official in pro sports, any substitution is an improvement.
|
| 10.3595 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Fri Nov 10 1995 17:19 | 2 |
| By the way MikeC, you must have felt ill when you heard that the Knicks
ALMOST got Mourning ???
|
| 10.3596 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Fri Nov 10 1995 19:01 | 8 |
|
I'd have rather he went to the Knicks to play for Nellie than Riley.
Going to any team but the Celtics was quarantee to make me sick but
the only way it could have been worst was if he went to the Lakers.
I think though that the Lakers are saving all their eggs to go after
Shaq. It's the perfect fit imo.
mike
|
| 10.3597 | | CAM::WAY | Nine to the front, six to the rear | Thu Nov 16 1995 12:21 | 6 |
| What is the Celtics record?
I already recycled last Sunday's paper and I don't get it during the week.
How's that Genius ML Carr doing at the helm?
|
| 10.3598 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | Will work for sleep.. | Thu Nov 16 1995 12:23 | 2 |
|
Let's just say it's going to be a long sports winter in Beantown...
|
| 10.3599 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Thu Nov 16 1995 12:57 | 4 |
|
The Celtics are currently 1-4. Its lottery bound season.
Ron
|
| 10.3600 | | CAM::WAY | Nine to the front, six to the rear | Thu Nov 16 1995 13:06 | 4 |
| That's kind of what I thought....8^(
Man, that ML Carr is a true basketball genius eh?
|
| 10.3601 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Nov 16 1995 13:16 | 1 |
| 10.3602 | Rebuilding year #1 of many | CSLALL::BRULE | country in need of a leader | Thu Nov 16 1995 13:19 | 9 |
| I hope their lottery bound. There have been a few bright spots though.
Eric Williams looks like a good player. Might not ever be an allstar
but looks like a solid NBA player. The C's are trying to establish a
running game which they haven't had in years. Dino is playing well.
Montross is OK. They need to deal one of their 3 small guards and
keep taking their lumps this year. Hopefully they'll make the lottery
and be able to pick a stud.
Mike
|
| 10.3603 | Big Dog Shoots Better | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | | Thu Nov 16 1995 16:58 | 1 |
| Big Dog scored 36 against the Spurs.
|
| 10.3604 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Thu Nov 16 1995 19:14 | 21 |
|
I think you'd also have to include dare I say it Rick Fox as one of the
bright spots this year. He's certainly playing better than at any other
time during his career. Montross will probably be the death of me.
After watching him drop two easy rebounds last night, knock one away
from Eric Williams and then stand still and let one of the Utah players
grap a rebound uncontested, I was stunned to see in the stats this
morning he had 14 rebounds. He certainly gets an A for effort but the
physical ability and brains seem to be on hold.
Well replacement refs or not Malone still gets more than his share of
calls. There is some hope though that as a few times last night the
refs ignored his tricks.
Was disappointed with the effort last night on a whole because they let
utah dicate the tempo. If you're going to run then run! I will conceed
though it's tough to run when you're getting creamed on the boards.
It's still early but with the attemp to run uptempo and Williams this
has been a more enjoyable season than the last few.
mike
|
| 10.3605 | early warning | HBAHBA::HAAS | graffiti limbo | Fri Nov 17 1995 12:37 | 10 |
| I really haven't been following the NBA all that closely thised year but:
> I think you'd also have to include dare I say it Rick Fox as one of the
> bright spots this year.
Dare he say!
Mike, have we come to this? ;-)
TTom
|
| 10.3606 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Fri Nov 17 1995 13:41 | 10 |
|
actually TTom it's more of a reflection on how down the rest of the
team is.
;^)
seriously though the uptempo style seems to suit his talents more than
the halfcourt game.
mike
|
| 10.3607 | could be worse and is | HBAHBA::HAAS | graffiti limbo | Fri Nov 17 1995 13:57 | 10 |
| > seriously though the uptempo style seems to suit his talents more than
Mike,
Is this just another ax you is gridin on ol' Dean? ;*).
Hail, right now, he would probably start for the Bugs and maybe the
leading rebounder :+(
TTom
|
| 10.3608 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Washing Machine | Fri Nov 17 1995 14:13 | 9 |
|
nope. no sense grinding Dean when there's no fish to take the bait...
I mean if'n I wanted to grind on ole Deano, I'd point to the fact that
Montross didn't learn a few fundamental things like using two hands and
establishing good posistion to rebound during his stay at the NBA way
station known as Chappel Hill...........
mike
|
| 10.3609 | Nets opt to go the "let's get as bad as possible" route | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass knocks off #1 - again! | Fri Dec 01 1995 12:32 | 20 |
| Congrats to the New Jersey Nets. First, they were smart enough to make
an offer to pouting, overrated, injury-prone Kenny Anderson that he
could refuse, so they can get rid of him later this year. Then lasted
night they pull a major deal and dump perrennial whiner, pain in the
butt, loser of epic proportions Derrick Coleman on the poor pathetic
halfway house known as the Philadelphia 76ers.
Here are the particulars of the deal:
TO PHILLY: F Derrick Coleman
F/G Sean Higgins
G Rex Walters
TO NEW JERSEY: C Shawn Bradley
F Tim Perry
G Greg Graham
Could be one of those trades that hurts both teams! ;-)
NAZZ
|
| 10.3610 | | CAM::WAY | Nine to the front, six to the rear | Fri Dec 01 1995 12:36 | 4 |
| Whoopee damn doo....8^)
Philly gets a head case, and New Jersey gets the incredible skinny man....
|
| 10.3611 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Dec 01 1995 13:16 | 2 |
| How could it "hurt" either of these two teams? Their team pictures are
in Webster's next to "pain" and "agony".
|
| 10.3612 | Or am I out of touch again? | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Dec 01 1995 13:45 | 4 |
| The "let's get as bad as possible" route? I thought the Los Angeles
Clippers had that staked out as their own for the foreseeable future.
Steve
|
| 10.3614 | I haven't a clue | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Dec 01 1995 13:57 | 4 |
| Dunno, Karen. I don't really follow the NBA, but the Clippers have been
so bad for so long that I took it to be a law of nature.
Steve
|
| 10.3615 | Tough to know much about those teams - we never see them | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass knocks off #1 - again! | Fri Dec 01 1995 14:03 | 4 |
| Clippers are doing better than anybody expected at 7-8, but they're not
in first. The Kings lead the Pacific.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3616 | Led by Edney | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Fri Dec 01 1995 14:45 | 5 |
| Kings are getting a lot out of Tyus Edney from Ucla's champions.
How are those other final four stars doing:
Corliss,Wallace,O'Bannon,Big C ?
|
| 10.3617 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | the dream is always the same... | Fri Dec 01 1995 15:53 | 3 |
| 10.3618 | | GLRMAI::FINIZIO | | Mon Dec 18 1995 18:47 | 5 |
|
T-wolves fired Bill Blair today, named Flip Saunders the new
coach...
|
| 10.3619 | some numbers | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Jan 05 1996 15:29 | 32 |
| USA Today has some nice stats today...
Versatility: Scottie Pippen is the onliest player in the league
averaging 20 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists per game. Others
listed with good all round stats were Penny, Grant Hill (who
needs a single nickname) and Clyde the Glide. Rookies mention
were Stackhouse and Stoudamire.
Attendance: As usual, Charlotte leads the league in home attendance,
where 24,442 fork over cold hard cash to see the Bugs lose, and
Chicago leads the league in away attendance at 19,805 which will
go up after lasted night's 24,442 in Charlotte.
Shot Blocking: As usual, Charlotte leads the league in fewest blocked
shots per game with 3.17. I'd say it's a miracle they get 3.
The Central division has 7 of the top 10 worsted, including the
Bulls at the 20th slot.
Offensive Rebounding/shooting percentage: Dallas and New Jersey
lead the league in most offensive rebounds and worsted shooting
percentage. 'Nuff said.
Assists: Yinka Dare has no assists, but has played in less than
400 minutes. Among players who average 30 minutes per game, Kevin
Willis leads at 1.1 per game, followed by Wesley Person at 1.9.
FWIW, Chuck person averages a cool 0.9 in almost 25 minutes a
game.
Shooting: Taking FG%, 3-pt% and FT%, the bestest shooters in the
league are Tim Legler of the Bullets and Chris Mullins. The
worsted are Charles Smith and the player formerly known as
Thunder Dan.
|
| 10.3620 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Fri Jan 05 1996 18:07 | 8 |
| Is this the last year of Michael Jordan's contract. With those away
numbers and the tv ratings skew (no mj vs with mj) he's really
frustrated (I read) with not getting his $value. I heard some
outrageous number he was asking for his next contract. Couldn't give
you the exact number since nba + outgrageous is a tough mix. 20
mil/year?
What's a league to do?
|
| 10.3621 | He's bargaining power/time is running out... | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Fri Jan 05 1996 19:04 | 24 |
| Where did you hear this from (20 mil per year). He's too OLD now to
get this kind of cash. He basically shot himself in the Foot... I
think he Knew how valuable he was to the league and was making PAA
LENTY of $$$ but when these rookies with 0 talent come in out of
college at an averge of 7 mil a year over 10years I would be a bit
frustrated with the system/cap too. If you look at some of the
other folks over the past 3-5 years that made 3+ Million a year jordan
was more valuable then 99.9% of them and in many case's worth 10times
more then them :-).
If he was going to get greedy he should have did it about 5 years ago,
of course he would have then effected what the rest of the bulls got.
He's in a NO WIN situation. For him to get (In comparasion to most of
the other big $$$ Players in the league) what he's worth he would only
hurt chicago and his teamates. He makes every team in the league $$$
and makes money for the league, currently there is no system in place
to compensate him (or any other stars) without effecting your teamates.
Its the same here in DEC. You could have a small group of 10 people
who all deserve 10% raises. But if digital says the avg is 5% then
you can give 5 people 10% and the rest get shafted.
MaB
|
| 10.3622 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Ashes to ashes, dust to dust | Fri Jan 05 1996 19:14 | 10 |
| MaB, nice note, you haved summed it up very well but not provided the
answer. Just what is the league going to do? 20mil? I don't know just
that the number is absurdly high and I can't relate since it's nba.
If Jordan won't sign for Cap / Age (or true value to team vs market
value) numbers he's offer it's a real dilemma for the league. They not
only lose 200,000 admissions (at 2k*40 games) they lose those precious
neilson points. He's easily worth 20mil/yr to the league.
I wonder if Stern is trying to solve this or putting it off.
|
| 10.3623 | Maybe this is not JUST for him ???? | MR1PST::CBULLS::MBROOKS | | Wed Jan 10 1996 17:20 | 15 |
| Maybe INVENT some new PROFIT SHARING PACKAGE for the #1 team/player
in merchandising sales this way the NEXT MJ will benefit from this
as well. Its clear today and possible the next 2 season MJ will be
the most watched player in the league and KIDS still love him, but
he wont be on top for too many more years (Although Bird was on top
even after his back was gone so who knows).
If MJ brings in the most $$$ to the league he should be rewarded by the
league, they just have to do it for every MJ and have a VALID way of
rating who the #1 man is. When MJ was gone was it clearly SHAQ or were
other's in contention ? By the time they make any changes MJ will be
at or near the end of his career so any NOISE/WAVES he makes is really
just setting it up for the NEXT superstar(s).
MaB
|
| 10.3624 | going down | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Wed Jan 10 1996 17:40 | 13 |
| If'n Jordan doesn't break the bank, Shaq will.
I mean if'n LJ gets a 84 mil contract, 200 mil for Jordan or Shaq don't
seem that bad a deal cause LJ certainly aint earning his money and
apparently makes little or no difference at the gate.
The NBA is gonna collapse under the collective weight of the salaries.
MLB is already dying, and the NBA won't be far behind. The NFL is not
exempt but their hard cap is gonna keep it around longer.
Do they still play hokey?
TTom
|
| 10.3625 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Wed Jan 10 1996 17:55 | 7 |
|
MJ makes 95% of his money from endorsements. Without the NBA he would
have made nothing from endorsements. IMO the NBA has made MJ ALL of his
money. MJ should play for $1 so the bulls can spend money on other
players.
Ron
|
| 10.3626 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Ashes to ashes, dust to dust | Wed Jan 10 1996 18:23 | 14 |
| And Michael would retort "Without me the nba is nothing. The games are
nothing but a vehicle for the stars and there is only one real star and
that is me". You should pay me 100 mil per year and the likes of
Wennington and Fox and 80% of the players should simply play for 100 k
a piece and be thankful for that.
Both yours and MJ's are exaggerations. I'd say the above is closer to
reality in the financial sense but in the long term you are correct
that paying Michael accordingly would have a long term adverse affect.
You are right about another thing, endorsements except in the modern
economic model that's basically an irrelevancy for the same reason that
the nba says "Michael you have a contract and we have a cap and you're
true worth to us is irrelevant".
|
| 10.3627 | | GENRAL::WADE | Ah'm Yo Huckleberry... | Wed Jan 10 1996 19:29 | 5 |
|
The way I figger it, somewhere, sitting in some grade school,
is the first Giga$ NBA player. Scary!
Claybone
|
| 10.3628 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | Jus scuttle buttin with StevieRay | Wed Jan 10 1996 20:09 | 5 |
|
Not near as scary as you walking around with a gun!!
How you do this year?
|
| 10.3629 | | CAM::WAY | Ridi pagliaccio | Thu Jan 11 1996 10:32 | 14 |
| <<< Note 10.3628 by OLD1S::CADZILLA2 "Jus scuttle buttin with StevieRay" >>>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You been at the 'Saw's SPORTShrooms again?
> Not near as scary as you walking around with a gun!!
That does make you stop and think, don't it?
|
| 10.3630 | Is 'Magic' back again? | BUMP::JSRINIVASAN | | Fri Jan 26 1996 16:53 | 5 |
| ESPN reported today that Magic Johnson is reportedly coming back. His
date of joining Lakers is also set. It will be next friday against
Chicago. Is that true or is it another fiasco?
Srini
|
| 10.3631 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Fri Jan 26 1996 19:23 | 8 |
|
Prime reported this story about 10 days ago. The story broke because
Magic is practicing with the team. From Magic's mouth "I'm
responsible for putting out a good product, by practicing with the team
I am better able to determine if and where we need help"
Marc
|
| 10.3632 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Jan 26 1996 19:31 | 4 |
|
Maybe he's thinking of using the NBA to tune up for the Olympics.
George
|
| 10.3633 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Jan 26 1996 22:12 | 1 |
| 10.3634 | In about 22 minutes | GONWST::OSULLIVAN | | Wed Jan 31 1996 01:06 | 2 |
| Looks like he's playing tonight at home against the Warriors as a power
forward.
|
| 10.3635 | maybe Magic shoulda come back sooner | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Wed Jan 31 1996 15:27 | 18 |
| Here's the starters and subs for the All-Stars.
East:
Starters Shaq, Pippen, Grant Hill, Penny, Jordan
Subs Vin Backer, Terrell Brandon, Ewing, Juwan Howard,
Reggie Miller, Zo, Glen Rice
West:
Starters Hakeem, Sir Chuck, Clyde Drexler, Shawn Kemp, Jason Kidd
Subs Sean Elliot, Mailman, Dikembe Mutombo,Gary Payton,
Mitch Richmond, The Admiral, John Stockton
Players of note that are missing start with the league leading rebounder,
Da Woim, who finished 3rd in the balloting but din't get a nod. Scorers
that don't do much else and din't make it include Not So Big Dog, Glen
Robinson and LJ.
TTom
|
| 10.3636 | | CAM::WAY | When can their glory fade? | Wed Jan 31 1996 15:32 | 11 |
| I've heard on the radio that Magic is pretty outta shape. I guess he's
carrying a few extra pounds. (Now I don't feel so bad).
How long do you think it will take him to shed the weight and get into
playing trim.
Plus, being close to his age myself, I know it must be a pissah to try and
get into pro-Sports shape after four years off -- do you think he can do it?
'Saw
|
| 10.3637 | not bad shape | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Wed Jan 31 1996 15:34 | 11 |
| Magic has bulked up and may be carrying a few extra pounds but he aint no
Stanley Roberts.
19 points, 10 assists, 8 rebounds in 27 minutes doesn't sound like too
bad a shape to be in. Shore it was Golden State but Magic looked good.
People forget that Magic was never one of the better athletes in the
league. In terms of talent, he's average at best at shooting, running,
and defense. Of course none of that mattered as he cruised to 5 rings.
TTom
|
| 10.3638 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Wed Jan 31 1996 15:56 | 7 |
|
Magic is 27 lbs heavier then when he last played for the Lakers.
Since he is going to be playing forward the weight should not hurt him.
The extra lbs is not fat, he has changed his diet and works out/lifts
weights a lot, So he has added muscle.
Ron
|
| 10.3639 | | CAM::WAY | When can their glory fade? | Wed Jan 31 1996 16:06 | 3 |
| Oh, I see.
Unforunately, I can't necessarily say that *I'M* in the same position. 8^)
|
| 10.3640 | he ain't pudgy | GENRAL::WADE | Ah'm Yo Huckleberry... | Wed Jan 31 1996 16:59 | 4 |
|
Ole Magic has a set of guns on him now.
Claybone
|
| 10.3641 | Hulked up? | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Wed Jan 31 1996 17:01 | 7 |
| Sorta like the Hulk's Pythons?
Magic never stopped playing with NBA players. He hosts a summer league
and most of the bigger names play in it or in other leagues that Magic is
in. This includes most of thised year's All-Stars.
TTom
|
| 10.3642 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jan 31 1996 17:06 | 2 |
| 10.3643 | inquiring minds :=] | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Wed Jan 31 1996 17:09 | 5 |
| Mike, is there any truth to the rumor that the real reason Magic came
back was because he was tired of waiting on KJ to retire and join his
touring team?
TTom
|
| 10.3644 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Wed Jan 31 1996 18:08 | 9 |
|
Anyone heard what Karl Malone's opinion is on Magic Johnsons latest
comeback.
I know he was really outspoken against it last time.
Chap
|
| 10.3645 | Politician remark | CSLALL::BRULE | country in need of a leader | Wed Jan 31 1996 18:10 | 5 |
| Chappy,
His words said that he was happy that Magic was back. His tone and body
language hinted otherwise.
Mike
|
| 10.3646 | not me! | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Wed Jan 31 1996 18:13 | 11 |
| I saw him on ESPN and it's hard to believe that this is the same guy that
was so openly outspokenly against his return earlier.
Ol' Mailman did the "don't worry be happy" thing where you woulda thought
he was nominating Magic for Man of the Year.
Of course, with Malone, if'n you don't like what he says just hang
around. He'll say something else that will make you forget this first
stupidity and has no problems with waffling on issues.
TTom
|
| 10.3647 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!! | Thu Feb 01 1996 13:55 | 15 |
|
if a guy dribles the ball four steps after receiving the pass does
Magic still get an assist? Only 8 boards? I would guess even though
they're carring the partyline many players are timid to mix it up
with Magic in the paint.
Interesting that when Chicago's running away with it all and making a
mockery of the league, a shining knight emerges in the West to liven
up the plot.
Sorry to say not that matters much to him but Magic has lost all of
my respect. He's one selfish individual and I regret the day I had
a p-name callinh him an all-American hero.
mike
|
| 10.3648 | seems a minority | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Thu Feb 01 1996 14:06 | 9 |
| > <<< Note 10.3647 by CNTROL::CHILDS "Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!!" >>>
And we wouldn't wanna get on the wrong side of yer p-name, either :+}
So far, Mike Childs and Atlanta's Steve Smith are the 2 people I've heard
that think negatively of Magic's return. You know something's amiss when
the Mailman aint complaining, though...
TTom
|
| 10.3649 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Feb 01 1996 14:29 | 2 |
| 10.3650 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu Feb 01 1996 18:15 | 25 |
| Note 21.2736 ACC Sports 2736 of 2736
>The college hoops game that involves a real team beats the NBA hoops game
>which does not even require a team.
Maybe this belongs here (if it belongs anywhere).
Again, take a look at the Olympics. Are NBA athletes so much better than the
Europeans that European teams couldn't stop individual NBA players? Were
European teams so poor on offense that individual NBA players took turns
breaking up plays?
The NBA does play team basketball only it's so fast and the play makers are
so good they don't need to throw it to every guy on each play to get a basket.
Someone sees the open guy and zing, it's over, 2 points. But on the other end
to slow that offense down takes a team covering every player on the floor 100%
of the time.
Remember, the European's biggest complaint was not that individual NBA
players could score. Their complaint was that the NBA defense was so air tight
that you couldn't make a pass or take a shot once you crossed mid court, every
where you turned there was a hand slapping at the ball if not simply reaching
out and taking it away.
George
|
| 10.3651 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!! | Thu Feb 01 1996 18:30 | 8 |
|
and the college b-ball players used to kick the crap out of the rest of the
world too George until one stubborn pig-headed coach blew it. Then the good
ole olympic hiearcy saw all the $$$$$$$$$ that bring in the NBA players would
get them so they decided they wanted them. Good ole USA pride reared it's ugly
head and deleivered them.
mike
|
| 10.3652 | IMHO, in reply | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Thu Feb 01 1996 18:31 | 29 |
| IMO:
> Again, take a look at the Olympics. Are NBA athletes so much better than the
>Europeans that European teams couldn't stop individual NBA players? Were
Yes. When we send a team over there to play, like they do in the
MacDonald's cup, the results are a lot closer. In fack, a couple of the
European teams have almost beaten in some cases the current NBA champs.
But what's different about this is that in this case you have 2 teams
playing, not a_all-start collection.
And that difference is profound enough to stop the rest o' the world at
both ends of the court.
> The NBA does play team basketball only it's so fast and the play makers are
>so good they don't need to throw it to every guy on each play to get a basket.
Wail, in NBA rarely does more than 3 people get involved in what's going
on. Mostly, it's a 2-man game: I pass you shoot, dunk, walk, charge or
otherwise attempt to score. Chicago has made famous its triangle offense
but even then you have at least 2 guys standing around.
Now, I'm talking about most teams.
In fack, one of the few times that NBA teams play as a team is when they
are in a zone press which a lot of people consider is against the very
rules that govern play.
TTom
|
| 10.3653 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu Feb 01 1996 18:43 | 18 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3651 by XTATIC::CHILDS "Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!!" >>>
>and the college b-ball players used to kick the crap out of the rest of the
>world too George until one stubborn pig-headed coach blew it. Then the good
>ole olympic hiearcy saw all the $$$$$$$$$ that bring in the NBA players would
>get them so they decided they wanted them. Good ole USA pride reared it's ugly
>head and deleivered them.
No, they lost more than once. Before the Georgetown coach lost there was
another time when the Russians beat them. That was the one where in the last
game they replayed the last 4 seconds about 3 times.
Point was that before the 70's the U.S. college teams had Dream Team like
blow outs all the time. In the 70's and 80's they were competitive but not
dominant. But when the NBA Dream Team took over it was like going back to
1960, it was all U.S.A.
George
|
| 10.3654 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu Feb 01 1996 18:44 | 22 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3652 by HBAHBA::HAAS "slightly related" >>>
>Yes. When we send a team over there to play, like they do in the
>MacDonald's cup, the results are a lot closer. In fack, a couple of the
>European teams have almost beaten in some cases the current NBA champs.
Being undefeated is a good argument for being the best, even if you have
a few close games. In most cases where a team can beat anyone any time those
close games represent days the team was slacking off then picked it up near
the end and "took care of business".
>Wail, in NBA rarely does more than 3 people get involved in what's going
>on. Mostly, it's a 2-man game: I pass you shoot, dunk, walk, charge or
>otherwise attempt to score. Chicago has made famous its triangle offense
>but even then you have at least 2 guys standing around.
That's because they are so fast they don't need to throw the ball around.
But it still takes an entire team on defense to stop players with that
capability since they have to be able to stop them from hitting any where
at any time. NBA defenses have to shut down the best offensive guys in the
world to stay in a game.
|
| 10.3655 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!! | Thu Feb 01 1996 19:54 | 2 |
| yes George I remember the Russian game well but I dismissed it due to obviously
orchastraded ending..........
|
| 10.3656 | diff'rent game | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 10:39 | 16 |
| One of the changes that happened to the Olympic team was that the top
college players quit trying out. Once, the team was represented by the
likes of Jerry West, Big O and a couple of other HoFers.
But the basic difference between the pro game and the college game is
that the pro's are mostly a man-on-man situation and rarely do you see
anything like what you're calling team defense.
Watch tonight in you'll see while Michael is profiling, most everyone
else is standing around. Nothing like the college game.
> That's because they are so fast they don't need to throw the ball around.
Or possibly so lazy.
TTom
|
| 10.3657 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 12:00 | 35 |
| Out of respect to that poor dead horse who always takes a beating I'll move
along to the next point, inspired by ROLLINS_R who pointed out that it took the
Dream Team 2 chances to beat the college all stars (a team that included
Shack).
Say that at the end of each season the NBA champ played the NCAA champ. Say
that they used College rules, College refs, played on a College court AT a
college with college length periods and college cheerleaders.
Further, say that they played a best of 3 to be more like the College best
of 1 than the NBA best of 7. Each team has 2 weeks to tune up after the season
ends.
After about 12 years, what would be the:
- NBA - NCAA series standings (i.e. # of NBA series wins, # of NCAA series
wins)?
- NBA - NCAA total game standings (# of games won by NBA, # of games won
by NCAA)?
- Average score for a game
(average NBA points/game - average NCAA points/game)
My vote is as follows. I believe that after 12 years of the NBA champ playing
the NCAA champ it would be something like:
Series NBA champ 12 - NCAA champ 0
Games NBA champ 24 - NCAA champ 1
AvPPG NBA champ 85 - NCAA champ 45
What do you think?
George
|
| 10.3658 | about right | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 12:06 | 12 |
| Wail, if'n you look at the lasted years' champs, I caint see UCLA beating
Houston, ever.
I think it's bound to happen that one of the NCAA champs will one game
but otherwise, I think you're right on the mark with the predictions,
George.
Now as to why the Dream Team had to play the college guys a couple of
times afore beating 'em, I remind you that Christian Laettner played with
the pros. Nuff said!~
TTom
|
| 10.3659 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Feb 02 1996 12:29 | 2 |
|
What would have happened if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?
|
| 10.3660 | able on no elba | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 12:44 | 7 |
| Napoleon never played with the B-52s. He was more into the classical
stuff.
Of course, give the little guy a couple of nukes and you got yourself a
whole 'nother story...
TTom
|
| 10.3661 | | CAM::WAY | When can their glory fade? | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:09 | 21 |
| Actually, Tommy, you bring up a good point.
Man, what if Robert E. Lee had just a few M-60 machine guns at Gettysburg.
Or what if Washington had breech-loaders in the American Revolution.
Like to see Richtofen run up the score against Chuck Yeager in his P-51.
Give the US Navy just one Los Angeles class fast attack sub and Japan folds
LOTS quicker in WWII.
NBA and College Hoops are different games. They just appear the same because
they happen to use a round ball and a hoop.
The NBA is plastic, glitz and image over substance, where travelling is called
the way the death penalty is handed out in CT. If there's an ounce of
mitigating circumstance (ie, if it's a star doin' it) then it's not called.
Same thing with palming....
'Saw
|
| 10.3662 | still need a good name | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:14 | 18 |
| >Like to see Richtofen run up the score against Chuck Yeager in his P-51.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Another proud son of West By Gawd Virginee.
Speaking of NBA, I think the Bullets now have a really good chance to
make the playoffs and maybe some noise once they get there. Chris Webber
is out for the season. He's gonna have surgery on his shoulder.
Meanwhile, they're having a contest - no in SPROTS, though. In the
interest of PC, Washington wants to change its name from the Bullets. The
finalists are Dragons, Express, Sea Dogs, Stallions and Wizards. Main,
don't these really grab ya?
And mark this date down: March 19. On that date, Earvin Johnson will play
against Ervin Johnson when the Lakers travel to the Sonics.
TTom
|
| 10.3663 | | CAM::WAY | When can their glory fade? | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:17 | 14 |
| >Meanwhile, they're having a contest - no in SPROTS, though. In the
>interest of PC, Washington wants to change its name from the Bullets. The
>finalists are Dragons, Express, Sea Dogs, Stallions and Wizards. Main,
>don't these really grab ya?
Could we get ANY more Ridiculous?
Nexted thing you know, they'll be wanting to change the name of the Hartford
Whalers because Greenpeace will throw a hissy....
This country's turning into a bunch o' p_____s.
'Saw
|
| 10.3664 | I guess I just don't understand PC | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:23 | 12 |
| Actually, there *have* been objections to the name Whalers, probably mostly
from my home state ("Hi, have a nice day, save the whales.")
But I don't follow this. The Washington Bullets are going to change their
names for reasons of political correctness (a totalitarian concept if ever
there was one), while the Washington Redskins just sit around, looking for
a community to blackmail out of a stadium?
I personally don't take objections to names like "Braves", "Indians",
"Seminoles", or "Blackhawks" seriously, but "Redskins" is beyond the pale.
Steve
|
| 10.3665 | pitiful | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:24 | 9 |
| I'm serious.
Did they draw these names outta a hat or something? Was Newt or Slick in
charge of the contest?
There should be so many better names for a D.C. team. What's wrong with
the Senators like the ol' baseball team?
TTom
|
| 10.3666 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:29 | 12 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3659 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> What would have happened if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?
The horses would have had a devil of a time trying to drag it onto the battle
field and Wellington would have blown it apart with his cannon.
If you are saying that the NCAA playing the NBA would be like Napoleon's army
trying to fight a modern army I agree. The NBA would grind the NCAA into saw
dust every time out.
George
|
| 10.3667 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The engineer formerly known as Roland | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:31 | 7 |
| >Speaking of NBA, I think the Bullets now have a really good chance to
>make the playoffs and maybe some noise once they get there. Chris Webber
>is out for the season.
Is there anyone else that believes there is a causal relationship here?
Chris Webber is poison.
|
| 10.3668 | good image | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:32 | 14 |
| Anyone ever see _Front Office_?
Eddie Albert plays a Ross Perot type, a big time wheeler dealer in the
industrial military complex. Along the way he sells fighter jets to small
countries in exchange for the rights to loot and plunder their natural
resources like oil.
Well it turns out some of these people don't exactly fly 'em. When they
duke it out with the neighbors, they tow them up to the tops of the
mountains and the let 'em roll down on each other.
I can just see them Nap guys towing the B-52...
TTom
|
| 10.3669 | They'd have to be allowed to keep the logo, at least... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Pride of Steel | Fri Feb 02 1996 13:56 | 8 |
|
"Redskins" is indeed beyond the pale at face value, but I must
admit that internally I wrestle with the idea of a change because
I've always liked the team, their mutated fight song and their
tradition...
glenn
|
| 10.3670 | no native? | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 14:12 | 8 |
| > "Redskins" is indeed beyond the pale at face value, ...
Goodun Pun there, glenn!~
I have a PC question. Would a guy who moved from Bombay of to 'Merica
be called a_Indian-American?
TTom
|
| 10.3671 | | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | From BK>>Dean to BK>>TO | Fri Feb 02 1996 14:37 | 13 |
| > Out of respect to that poor dead horse who always takes a beating I'll move
> along to the next point, inspired by ROLLINS_R who pointed out that it took the
> Dream Team 2 chances to beat the college all stars (a team that included
> Shack).
I guess it was 1 against 5, was it George ? And Shaq is so great he could
beat an NBA all star team by himself ?
If Shaq is that great, it's certainly conceivable Hakeem is as well. Had he
decided to not become a U.S. citizen, played for Nigeria in the Olympics,
maybe he could have beaten Dream Team I. Is that what I get from this
argument ?
|
| 10.3672 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Feb 02 1996 14:46 | 7 |
|
>> If you are saying that the NCAA playing the NBA would be like...
NO, I'm saying that you have to be pretty starved for conversation
to engage in those "what if" arguments.
|
| 10.3673 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 14:56 | 20 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3671 by MIMS::ROLLINS_R "From BK>>Dean to BK>>TO" >>>
> If Shaq is that great, it's certainly conceivable Hakeem is as well. Had he
> decided to not become a U.S. citizen, played for Nigeria in the Olympics,
> maybe he could have beaten Dream Team I. Is that what I get from this
> argument ?
That game didn't really prove all that much, it was a scrimage. Saying
that proves college players are on the same level as the NBA is like saying
there is great meaning in the outcome of spring training games.
Once games started where there was a tournament at stake the NBA players
started wiping the floor with any and all competition.
But go ahead and tell me who would win if the NBA champ played the NCAA champ
at the end of each season. Tommy's as much as thrown in the towel on that
challenge because he knows the obvious answer makes him look foolish for saying
that college players can play at a major league level.
George
|
| 10.3674 | what's the problem? | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 15:01 | 13 |
| Saying what is obvious aint admittin nothin.
>that college players can play at a major league level.
College players most certainly can and do play at a major league level.
It's called Division I, as in Major College.
You're address *THE* major leagues and they play at that level, too. See
what happens is that they play at a major league level in college and
then, if'n they're lucky and/or good, they play at the major league
level.
TTom
|
| 10.3675 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Feb 02 1996 15:06 | 7 |
|
>> Tommy's as much as thrown in the towel on that challenge blah blah blah
Throw in the towel nothing. It's a specious argument. But that's your
specialty. Eventually, you'll say something completely ridiculous, get
called on it and then try and lie your way out. You always do.
|
| 10.3676 | I should probably stay out of this, but... | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Feb 02 1996 15:21 | 25 |
| Permit me to point out that you are all arguing about something you all
agree with, namely
1 There are a very few college players who can indeed play at the
NBA level, and prove it by leaving school early and competing
successfully;
2 The NBA plays at a higher level than the colleges, because it
is composed of the pick of the college crop, who in addition
have matured physically and athletically.
Right? You all agree with that?
None of that has *anything* to do with the question of which kind of ball
you find more entertaining, unless (evidently like George) you equate
the level of play with the level of entertainment.
And George, I'm surprised you let Tommy get away with saying that the
term "minor league" is a putdown. In the context you used the term,
I don't think you meant it as such.
All right, that's my one and only attempt to save a remnant of Trigger's
body for posterity. Carry on.
Steve
|
| 10.3677 | I don't agree with what you say we agree on | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 15:28 | 0 |
| 10.3678 | So sue me 8*) | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Feb 02 1996 15:31 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.3679 | and don't call me Sue | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 15:34 | 6 |
| Steve,
My people will call your people and as soon as they agree on what it
we're actually talking about I'll let you know.
TTom
|
| 10.3680 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:13 | 24 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3675 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Throw in the towel nothing. It's a specious argument. But that's your
> specialty. Eventually, you'll say something completely ridiculous, get
> called on it and then try and lie your way out. You always do.
OUCH!! WHOOOOO!!!! OUCH!! WHOOOOO!!!! WHOOOOO!!!!
A Tommy lashing, a Tommy lashing!!!!
Is the idea of the NBA champ meeting the NCAA champ ridiculous? Of course
it's ridiculous. Just like saying that college teams are on the same level as
NBA teams is ridiculous. They are not.
Compared to the NBA, the best college teams are like minor league teams in
baseball loaded with prospects not ready for the NBA, others guys who never
will make the NBA, and a few stars here and there who are about ready for
promotion.
There's nothing wrong with that, some people like to watch minor leagues.
In fact the popularity of minor league baseball is growing like ragweed but
that doesn't make them major league, it only makes them more popular.
George
|
| 10.3681 | THWACK!!!! | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The engineer formerly known as Roland | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:13 | 0 |
| 10.3682 | OOOOUUCH!!!!! | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:15 | 0 |
| 10.3683 | minor league LDUC | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:18 | 0 |
| 10.3684 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:22 | 2 |
|
Boli that dust speck! Boil that dust speck!
|
| 10.3685 | Ashes to ashes, dust to dust | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:32 | 9 |
| Rest in Peace, Trigger.
Steve
PS to TTom: tell your people not to bother. I've crossed the last T,
dotted the last I, and closed the last parenthesis. The next S-Bahn
leaves in 19 minutes and I am going to be on it.
Have a good weekend, everyone.
|
| 10.3686 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:34 | 11 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3684 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Boli that dust speck! Boil that dust speck!
Well Boli or Boil, you were the one that lit the fire for this round.
If you don't want to have this discussion, why did you bring it up?
I'm done any time your side is done.
George
|
| 10.3687 | | CAM::WAY | When can their glory fade? | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:36 | 13 |
| Steve,
When you get around to it (ie when you're here again), what's the S-Bahn.
I've been on the U-Bahn (subway) so I'm familiar with that.
Is the S-Bahn a bus system?
Have a good weekend...
'Saw
|
| 10.3688 | Magic vs. Michael | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:45 | 4 |
| 10.3689 | funny, you don't look serious | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Fri Feb 02 1996 16:48 | 9 |
| from da Line:
> CLEVELAND 3 phoenix TNT @8pm
> chicago 7 LA LAKERS TNT @10:30pm
Assuming your serious.
TTom
|
| 10.3690 | giaddap | AKOCOA::BREEN | You could see that he truly did love the Mademoiselle | Fri Feb 02 1996 17:55 | 16 |
| Well this one went from the UMass note to the Acc note and somehow
ended up in the NBA note.
George definitely meant "minor league" as a putdown. In minor league
baseball the players are developing skills but playing exactly the same
game but with lesser skills - you see it in the swings and often in the
field. A tripleA baseball team doesn't compare to a 1984 NCar.,a 1988
Houston or 1992 LasVegas vis a vis a mid level pro team.
The colleges have the athletic talent and 95% of the skills and play
twice a week for 40 minutes and can go full bore. In order to play 48
minutes, 80 times in 5 months the nba players are forced to slow down.
That is why you are getting major league entertainment in college
basketball. And I like minor league baseball and nba basketball but
don't compare either to major league baseball and college basketball.
|
| 10.3691 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 18:09 | 29 |
| RE<<< Note 10.3690 by AKOCOA::BREEN "You could see that he truly did love the Mademoiselle" >>>
> George definitely meant "minor league" as a putdown.
Not really. To me minor league means a bunch of guys trying to improve
so that they are ready to advance to the major leagues.
But I'd like to hear your answer to my question. If the NBA champ played
the NCAA champ at the end of each year in a best of 3 using College rules,
refs, time, courts, etc, after 12 years, what would the record be?
Series Record NBA champ - NCAA champ
Total Game Record NBA champ - NCAA champ
Average Points per Game NBA champ - NCAA champ
I said
Series Record NBA champ 12 - NCAA champ 0
Total Game Record NBA champ 24 - NCAA champ 1
Average Points per Game NBA champ 85 - NCAA champ 45
How do you think they would do? If they are the same level and the only
difference is that it's different rules then shouldn't the college kids beat
the pros at a college type game?
If the Bulls played UMASS in a best of 3 next week using College rules,
refs, time, and court, who'd win?
George
|
| 10.3692 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | You could see that he truly did love the Mademoiselle | Fri Feb 02 1996 18:39 | 10 |
| As Tommy says you're still missing the point. NBA players have basically
played their college and could again adapt to the college game. The
problem is they don't play a college type game.
If you're point is that if colleges had 10 year enrollments and could
move players from other colleges in and out would the college team be
better (assuming they didn't lost these players to the pros)? Yes the
college team would be better.
Would a top CBA team beat UMass at Mullins next week - no I doubt it.
|
| 10.3693 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Fri Feb 02 1996 18:46 | 6 |
| re .3688,
The Magic vs Michael show starts at the usual time. For you in
Arizona its 7:30, for us on the East Coast its 10:30
Ron
|
| 10.3694 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Feb 02 1996 19:16 | 3 |
| re 3691
Boil that dust speck! Boil that dust speck!
|
| 10.3695 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Feb 02 1996 20:21 | 21 |
| RE<<< Note 10.3692 by AKOCOA::BREEN "You could see that he truly did love the Mademoiselle" >>>
> If you're point is that if colleges had 10 year enrollments and could
> move players from other colleges in and out would the college team be
> better (assuming they didn't lost these players to the pros)? Yes the
> college team would be better.
No that's not my point. Obviously if colleges change to become something else
they will no longer be what they are. I'm saying that as is, colleges are like
a minor league because they have young developing players, players who will
never develop to NBA quality, and a few stars ready for the leap.
Yes I see your point that the rules are a bit different, they have zones,
shorter periods, a shorter 3-point distance, and games are called tighter
with regard to fouls and traveling.
However this is not the main reason the game is different. The main reason
the game is different is that on average the NBA players are bigger, faster,
and better just the way they would be in any major league.
George
|
| 10.3696 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Feb 02 1996 21:07 | 7 |
| 10.3697 | WHere is that horse's grave ? | MIMS::ROLLINS_R | From BK>>Dean to BK>>TO | Sat Feb 03 1996 03:19 | 21 |
| > Yes I see your point that the rules are a bit different, they have zones,
>shorter periods, a shorter 3-point distance, and games are called tighter
>with regard to fouls and traveling.
>
> However this is not the main reason the game is different. The main reason
>the game is different is that on average the NBA players are bigger, faster,
>and better just the way they would be in any major league.
And that's your OPINION. That's fine. A lot of people in here disagree,
and that's an OPINION, too. I haven't see anyone try to say that you should
have the same OPINION as anyone else. Some of us see SOMETHING ELSE in
college basketball that seems to elude you or makes no difference to you,
that makes it preferable TO US over the NBA.
Most individual NBA players are better than most college players. Of course
the best NBA team can beat any collegiate team; even the worst NBA team can
beat regularly the best college teams (although I'd give the college team a
chance in some circumstances). As far as talent levels go, there isn't a
real comparison. If what you want to see if the best in athleticism, and
that sounds like what you want, the NBA is better. There are other aspects
of the game that some of us prefer, however.
|
| 10.3698 | | CROW::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 05 1996 12:12 | 28 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3697 by MIMS::ROLLINS_R "From BK>>Dean to BK>>TO" >>>
> And that's your OPINION. That's fine. A lot of people in here disagree,
> and that's an OPINION, too. I haven't see anyone try to say that you should
> have the same OPINION as anyone else. Some of us see SOMETHING ELSE in
> college basketball that seems to elude you or makes no difference to you,
> that makes it preferable TO US over the NBA.
Oops, someone's flying upside down. You've got this exactly backwards. Think
again how this all started.
- Paul asked me if I was going to jump on the UMASS bandwagon.
- I replied no, even though I went there I was not going to jump on the
UMASS bandwagon because I didn't care for College Basketball. To me it
was Minor League basketball (i.e. my OPINION).
- It was then the other side that took offense to MY OPINION and started
up the debate.
>If what you want to see if the best in athleticism, and
> that sounds like what you want, the NBA is better. There are other aspects
> of the game that some of us prefer, however.
That was my point exactly, nothing more nothing less. Others prefer College,
that's fine, I prefer the NBA.
George
|
| 10.3699 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Mon Feb 05 1996 12:45 | 10 |
|
Another big difference between the NBA and College is the shot
clock. Those extra 11 seconds would be an eternity for a NBA team.
IMO the best thing that happened to College BB was adding in the
shot clock. Yes, Villanova beating Georgetown in '85 was an exciting
game. I personally HATED the 4 corners and keeping the ball for
minutes at a time. The shot clock has made watching College ball
just as enjoyable as the NBA for me.
Ron
|
| 10.3700 | College Hoops >> NBA | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Mon Feb 05 1996 13:22 | 0 |
| 10.3701 | | CROW::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 05 1996 13:39 | 11 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3700 by HBAHBA::HAAS "slightly related" >>>
> -< College Hoops >> NBA >-
I think this means
- Take "College Hoops" and shift it to the right "NBA" bits.
Use one ">" for the "Greater Than" operator.
George
|
| 10.3702 | college hoops >>> NBA | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Mon Feb 05 1996 14:03 | 5 |
| > Use one ">" for the "Greater Than" operator.
As they say in _Let it Ride_: the one horse, Up Yours.
TTom
|
| 10.3703 | | CROW::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 05 1996 14:08 | 5 |
| Hey, I'm a Comp Sci teacher in my night life. What can I say, it's like when
an English teacher sees someone end a sentence with a preposition referring to
who ever they are talking to.
George
|
| 10.3704 | talking good to | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Mon Feb 05 1996 14:12 | 10 |
| Reminds me of a joke:
A poor ol' West Virginee girl meets a rich ol' Tar Heel girl and asks,
"Where you from". The Tar Heel girl answers: "From somewhere where we
know better than to end a sentence with a preposition."
To which the West Virginee girl responded: "OK, then, where you from,
bitch!~".
TTom
|
| 10.3705 | | CAM::WAY | When can their glory fade? | Mon Feb 05 1996 14:15 | 30 |
| You have to be tuned into the local Sports idiom however.
In Sports, unlike real life, the
>>>>> and <<<<<<
symbols denote magnitude by the number of symbols.
Thus
Bob Knight > Dean Smith
means Bob Knight is greater than Dean Smith.
but
Bob Knight >>>>> Dean Smith
translates into Bob Knight is immensely greater than Dean Smith.
Which, btw, is another of those immutable laws of SPORTS, like the obligatory
Russell >>>>>>>>>>>> Wilt.
(that last being stated explicitly for Steve in Munchen)
'Saw
|
| 10.3706 | flag this | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Mon Feb 05 1996 14:22 | 9 |
| > Russell >>>>>>>>>>>> Wilt.
That aint no law!~ It's barely a_hypotheis!~
As for immutable, how 'bout
College Hoops >>>>>>>>>>>> NBA!~!~!~!~!~!~
TTom
|
| 10.3707 | | SLEEPR::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 05 1996 15:39 | 23 |
|
Ok, then take this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
NBA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> College Hoops
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Or how about this one:
\
\
\
\
NBA + College Hoops
/
/
/
/
In my opinion, of course.
George
|
| 10.3708 | in his opinion | HBAHBA::HAAS | slightly related | Mon Feb 05 1996 15:41 | 8 |
| By George, I think he's got it.
> In my opinion, of course.
I've always wondered about this statement. I mean who's opinion is it
other than your own?
TTom
|
| 10.3709 | Meanwhile, Trigger is raised from the dead | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Mon Feb 05 1996 16:19 | 14 |
| Well, in my opinion, any basketball <<<< watching the grass grow, but
that's neither here nor there.
As an old compiler builder (many years ago), I could imagine a fuzzy
logic language that differentiated between '>', '>>', etc. Then you
could use '->' and '<-' as shift operators.
TTom, great joke. I howled.
Frank, I ain't even gonna touch it.
George, I love your nodename.
Steve
|
| 10.3710 | | AKEEM::GRONOWSKI | iceMAN - 1995 SPORTS NOTY Winner | Mon Feb 05 1996 17:50 | 10 |
|
Is this the kind and gentle SPROTS notesfile?
Notice how George is now on node CROW.
Notice how George still tries to justify stuff even when he claims it
doesn't matter. "I'm not on the UMass bandwagon, but I went there so
I could be..." Wake up pal... this is the definition of bandwagon...
you went there... you were *NOT* a fan at the time (because they
sucked), now they are hot, now you are a fan => (read atlanta braves!)
|
| 10.3711 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 05 1996 20:25 | 15 |
|
George is on the bandwago^ ...the bandwago^...the bandwago^...the bandwago^
...the bandwago^...the bandwago^...the bandwago^...the bandwago^...the bandwago^
...the bandwago^...the bandwago^
pprrRRRRUUUUUP!!!!
ffffft ffffffft .... ffffft ffffffft .... ffffft ffffffft ....
George is on the bandwago^ ...the bandwago^...the bandwago^...the bandwago^
...the bandwago^...the bandwago^
pprrRRRRUUUUUP!!!!
ffffft ffffffft .... ffffft ffffffft .... ffffft ffffffft ....
George
|
| 10.3712 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!! | Tue Feb 06 1996 13:38 | 12 |
| >> In my opinion, of course.
> I've always wondered about this statement. I mean who's opinion is it
> other than your own?
Well in the case of dear depart Ack Ack it used to be Dean's opinion
didn't it????
as in Dean and Me hate to play zones cause it's admitting we're to weak to
play mano mano???????
n'est pas?
|
| 10.3713 | all good Celtcis should be A-U-T-O-M-A-T-I-C | XTATIC::CHILDS | Cheatin' Cowboys suck!!! | Tue Feb 06 1996 17:14 | 5 |
|
How can Gail Goodrich make the Hall of Fame and JoJo White not? Did the voters
forget that JoJo played for the Celtics? What an injustice!!!!!!!!!!!
mike
|
| 10.3714 | | SUBPAC::SKALSKI | | Fri Feb 09 1996 13:28 | 14 |
|
Just curious who do younz guys feel will be in dem
finals of the roundball thised year. Me thinks the nba will
somehow make a bulls vs fakers final and boost dem rating
dontcha know. mike vs majic? Thats my best guess at thised
half way point of the season.
Shark
|
| 10.3715 | Fans to Jordan: Booooooooo!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 12 1996 12:03 | 17 |
| I never thought I'd see it.
35,000 people booing Michael Jordan!~
In a_otherwise uneventful NBA All Star game, the league put the fix in
and rewarded THE STAR with the MVP while it was apparent to anyone who
actually watched the game it shoulda been Shaq all the way.
Firsted of all, just in terms of stats, Shaq's 25 and 10 dominated. He
also had most of the few highlights, including some monster jams one of
which was directly in The Admiral's face. Even the Spurs faithful roared.
And finally, he's from San Antonio and in the finest tradition of Tommy
Gun the league usually tries to give it to the home guy.
In any case, it was worth it to hear Jordan booed.
TTom
|
| 10.3716 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Mon Feb 12 1996 13:22 | 15 |
|
Upon hearing the Boo birds, Jordan should have handed the trophy
over to Shaq.
On another note, one of the local Mass papers did an article about
Magic Johnson being HIV positive. They asked kids what they thought
about Magic playing basketball again. The kids are getting the
impression that having HIV is okay and that you are still normal.
Instead of smiling to the cameras, I think Magic has an obligation to
the kids. To say "I will eventually get AIDS, and I will die. It
could be tomorrow, or it could be 5 years from now. I'm hoping that
they find a cure before I die."
The bottom line is that kids are getting the wrong impression on
Magic returning.
Ron
|
| 10.3717 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | iceMAN - 1995 SPORTS NOTY Winner | Mon Feb 12 1996 13:29 | 2 |
| 10.3718 | My God, I agree with Groaner | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Mon Feb 12 1996 13:32 | 4 |
| The impression they're getting from his return isn't nearly as off base
as the one they got when he was prevented from returning four years ago.
Steve
|
| 10.3719 | Shaq musta wore the wrong shoes | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 12 1996 13:36 | 22 |
| Very little about Magic is normal but that's a whole 'nother story.
Suffice it to say, he was never a normal point guard.
RE: "I will eventually get AIDS, and I will die. ...
I don't think this is appropriate either since it is not known if'n Magic
will ever come down with AIDS. More and more, there is progress in
curtailing and preventing the symptons after the infection. I don't
necessarily disagree that this *MIGHT* happen to Magic.
I think the basic point here is that Magic does have a_opportunity to
help educate the young and the rest of us about what AIDS is and what it
isn't, what it means, and what it doesn't mean.
> Upon hearing the Boo birds, Jordan should have handed the trophy
> over to Shaq.
Jordan certainly coulda endeared himself with about ever one if'n he
woulda done this. In fack, it woulda made more news (i.e., more publicity
and more money) had he done this.
TTom
|
| 10.3720 | no wrong message 4 years ago | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Feb 12 1996 14:27 | 6 |
| >The impression they're getting from his return isn't nearly as off base
>as the one they got when he was prevented from returning four years ago.
That's hind-sight being 20-20. 4 years ago the medical experts couldn't
say that another player would not get the virus if Magic spewed blood
on him. Not sure they can say that definitively now.
|
| 10.3721 | the suits and their kneepads | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Mon Feb 12 1996 14:30 | 6 |
| >Jordan certainly coulda endeared himself with about ever one if'n he
>woulda done this. In fack, it woulda made more news (i.e., more publicity
>and more money) had he done this.
It woulda been a big kick in the teeth to the NBA and NBC powers, who are
carrying on this hero-worship to a sickening degree.
|
| 10.3722 | he could pull it off | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 12 1996 14:35 | 6 |
| >It woulda been a big kick in the teeth to the NBA and NBC powers, who are
>carrying on this hero-worship to a sickening degree.
Agree. And Jordan is about the onliest one who could get away with it.
TTom
|
| 10.3723 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Feb 12 1996 14:37 | 14 |
| 10.3724 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Mon Feb 12 1996 15:17 | 8 |
|
The point I was trying to make is that kids in America are
believing that it is okay to be HIV positive. Magic should be
stressing to the kids, that you shouldn't do drugs (needles), have
safe sex, etc... That even though he is HIV positive, you DON'T want to
get the HIV virus.
Ron
|
| 10.3725 | mixed messages | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 12 1996 15:23 | 15 |
| I hear ya, Ron.
You gotta believe the mixed messages kids are hearing these days.
While the market is flooded with ads and hype for booze and cigarettes,
they're told to just say no to drugs.
While churches are preaching abstinence and the schools hand out condoms,
parents apparently aint talking.
And sprots is no help neither. On one hand we got a convicted woman
beater as The Boxing Guy making millions. On the other we have a national
love fest with a buy who caught HIV.
TTom
|
| 10.3726 | | CAM::WAY | There's the devil to pay! | Mon Feb 12 1996 15:37 | 18 |
| >You gotta believe the mixed messages kids are hearing these days.
>
>While the market is flooded with ads and hype for booze and cigarettes,
>they're told to just say no to drugs.
>
>While churches are preaching abstinence and the schools hand out condoms,
>parents apparently aint talking.
>
>And sprots is no help neither. On one hand we got a convicted woman
>beater as The Boxing Guy making millions. On the other we have a national
>love fest with a buy who caught HIV.
Which just goes to show you that everybody is preaching a solution. Opinions
are like you-know-whats....
8^)
|
| 10.3727 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 12 1996 15:37 | 5 |
|
People keep forgetting that the goal of the NBA is to run basketball games
for profit, not to raise our nation's kids.
George
|
| 10.3728 | | CAM::WAY | There's the devil to pay! | Mon Feb 12 1996 15:38 | 7 |
| > People keep forgetting that the goal of the NBA is to run basketball games
>for profit, not to raise our nation's kids.
>
> George
In a perfect, compartmentalized world, George, I'd say you're 100% correct.
|
| 10.3729 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Feb 12 1996 15:45 | 13 |
| Well then enjoy your compartment because I don't see any evidence that they
have any other goal in mind.
But seriously, what else can they do? Even if they tried to send "better
messages" which one would they send? On HIV would they preach safe sex and
protection of the civil liberties of those infected or abstinence and the
protection of those not infected? On sportsmanship would they preach freedom
of expression or traditional sports values?
No matter what they tried, someone would complain. Better that major leagues
stick to playing ball, they have enough trouble just trying to accomplish that.
George
|
| 10.3730 | Didn't say you heard it here first did I? | AKOCOA::BREEN | You just can't tell | Mon Feb 12 1996 17:22 | 9 |
| A fairly safe way to predict the NBA finalists is to watch which
athletes are promoting which products on the commercials. If Reebok
wants Shaq in the finals it will have to outbid Nike and Michael.
I also saw awhile back that the NBA has okayed the NIKE subsidization
of mj's contract as not being a violation of the 'Cap. So Michael will
get his 30mil/year, The Bull's Michael and those rating points will
remain and if someone in the nba office worries about what's happening
he'll be ref'g cba games in Albany.
|
| 10.3731 | The End is nigh!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Wed Feb 21 1996 18:00 | 11 |
| Wail, I've seen it all, now.
Armon Gilliam was named player of the week for the NBA. Armageddon will
prolly get the nexted franchise.
And it a much more mundane turn of affairs, John Stockton is now the
all-time steal leader for the NBA. He passed Mourice Cheeks and currently
has 2,311. I was surprised to see Magic on the Top 10 for steals. Jordan
is currently 4th about a 100 behind Alvin Robertson.
TTom
|
| 10.3732 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The engineer formerly known as Roland | Wed Feb 21 1996 18:03 | 4 |
| >Armon Gilliam was named player of the week for the NBA. Armageddon will
>prolly get the nexted franchise.
That's Armon-geddon to you, pal...
|
| 10.3733 | JR!~ WATTA THUG!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 26 1996 13:27 | 12 |
| I like JR's new look with the Knicks.
In one of his firsted games, he elbowed Christian Laettner who had to
leave and get his eyebrow stitched up.
Then yesterday, he punched AC Green in the face, knocking out several
teeth. Not surpisingly, no call was the call. AC spent the nexted few
moments looking on the floor for what was formerly in his mouth. ESPN had
a great shot of it all, including AC bending over and picking the teeth
up.
TTom
|
| 10.3734 | | CAM::WAY | There's the devil to pay! | Mon Feb 26 1996 13:29 | 1 |
| Wow, a plate stacker and ebbos too!
|
| 10.3735 | Dean breeds the agression right out of his players... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Pride of Steel | Mon Feb 26 1996 13:46 | 8 |
|
> Wow, a plate stacker and ebbos too!
If'n he'd ever done all that for Dean, he might have been a player...
glenn
|
| 10.3736 | never made it | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 26 1996 13:48 | 9 |
| > If'n he'd ever done all that for Dean, he might have been a player...
Or if'n he'd ever done all that for the Bugs, he mighta still been with
'em.
Ol' JR is one of those players that never played up to his hype. Hail,
even Danny Ferry looks like he's actually developing.
TTom
|
| 10.3737 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Mon Feb 26 1996 13:56 | 10 |
|
>Ol' JR is one of those players that never played up to his hype. Hail,
>even Danny Ferry looks like he's actually developing.
I wasn't terribly surprised last year when Ferry transformed from
"useless" into just "mostly useless".
The fact that he's now moved up to "useful", however, floors me.
Joe
|
| 10.3738 | sooprized | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 26 1996 14:02 | 6 |
| I agree with you. I thought we had done seen all we would from ol' Danny.
He's always had a pretty good shot but he seemed to stand around and wait
for it to happen. Now it looks like he's actually hustling.
TTom
|
| 10.3739 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Feb 26 1996 14:53 | 5 |
| 10.3740 | throw the bum out!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 26 1996 15:08 | 6 |
| The elbow to Laettner looked incindental.
The punch to AC was calculated and deliberate. He should have to sit as
many games as AC loss teeth plus at least one fer the insult.
TTom
|
| 10.3741 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Feb 26 1996 15:29 | 6 |
| 10.3742 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | Can the Coach... | Mon Feb 26 1996 16:11 | 8 |
|
AC Green lost 2 teeth, plus add a game, so JR should be getting
a 3 game suspension. :^) Did the AC Green/JR incident happen before
or after, Barkley got a Technical for elbowing JR in the back?
Look for JR to get a 1 game suspension, to be served the 1st game
Ewing is back.
Ron
|
| 10.3743 | JR says 'after Chuck' | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Mon Feb 26 1996 16:19 | 6 |
| Ron,
All I saw of the game was the ESPN highlights. JR claims it was not only
after a Sir Chuck elbow but also after elbows by AC and Hot Rod.
TTom
|
| 10.3744 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | Harry Browne for President! | Wed Feb 28 1996 17:28 | 7 |
|
What's the deal with Zo? I thought Miami locked him for 4 years and then last
night I was NBA today or this week or some espn show and they were talking
how Miami's thinking of shelling out 16 million next year to resign him. Hey
as you all know he's my main man in the NBA but 16 million?
mike
|
| 10.3745 | can you say $100 million!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Wed Feb 28 1996 17:35 | 12 |
| Zo's a free agent after thised season. Rumors have him doing about
anything except possibly coming back to Charlotte.
All the wheelings and dealings by Miami and the Knicks where they're
getting players in the lasted year of their contracts smells like they're
trying to set up a situation where they let 'em all go and have a giant
wad of cash to bid on the free agents.
No matter Whether Zo gets 16 million or not, he's not the big prize. Both
Jordan and Shaq are up for bid the season.
TTom
|
| 10.3746 | Best free agent crop ever in the NBA | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Well, 37-1 ain't so bad! | Wed Feb 28 1996 18:55 | 6 |
| But aren't Jordan ans Shaq restricted free agents? I think 'Zo is
unrestricted, which makes a big difference.
Reggie Miller and Dikembe Mutombo are also unrestricted.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3747 | confusing | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Wed Feb 28 1996 19:02 | 6 |
| I thought they dropped that unrestricted/restricted stuff in thised years
agreement.
In any case, the preceding will bring in mega bucks!~
TTom
|
| 10.3748 | Is it football season yet? | BSS::JACKSON | Powder Shuffle | Wed Feb 28 1996 20:58 | 10 |
| Swap Mutumbo and Morning.
I like Mutumbo's defense, but he is no offesive threat unless your
talking about his offensive whiiiiiining.
Zo has offense and some decent defense. I'm not sure if he acts like
a baby...
Tim
|
| 10.3749 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | Harry Browne for President! | Thu Feb 29 1996 11:55 | 5 |
|
because of Jordan's age and Shaq's lack of heart, I'd still take Mourning
first. If Jordan was 2 years younger it wouldn't even be a question.
mike
|
| 10.3750 | | USCTR1::GARBARINO | | Thu Feb 29 1996 13:38 | 2 |
| Jordan is the biggest money-maker of all time in sports. Mourning ain't
even in the top-10 in the NBA. Big difference.
|
| 10.3751 | it's the money, stupid | HBAHBA::HAAS | Extra low prices and hepatitis too!~ | Thu Feb 29 1996 13:40 | 0 |
| 10.3752 | enough fun for everyone | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Fri Mar 08 1996 11:41 | 11 |
| This should make all the children happy!~
Denver 103, Phoenix 92. Starting at center, Hot Rod Williams scored a
grand total of 2 points.
Atlanta 83, Cleveland 72. Starting at center, Michael Cage scored a
grand total of 2 points.
Meanwhile, Jordan scores 53 as the Bulls routed the Pistons, 102-81.
TTom
|
| 10.3753 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Mar 08 1996 13:16 | 1 |
| 10.3754 | heiser choke factor in effect | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | iceMAN - 1995 SPORTS NOTY Winner | Fri Mar 08 1996 14:46 | 9 |
| 10.3755 | a big "NO" | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Mar 08 1996 14:56 | 2 |
| 10.3756 | | BSS::JACKSON | Powder Shuffle | Fri Mar 08 1996 15:03 | 13 |
| Denver has a real defensive center, but Mutumbo isn't much on
offense.
I liked what Sir Chuckles said whilst waiting for Mcdyess to shoot
some foul shots.
I might as well take myslef out of the game now since they have the
big guy on me.
Mutumbo covered charlie all night, who ended up getting 26 points on
8 of 22 from da field.
Tim
|
| 10.3757 | 'nuff said | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | iceMAN - 1995 SPORTS NOTY Winner | Fri Mar 08 1996 16:02 | 3 |
| 10.3758 | bunch of wannabees | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Mar 08 1996 17:02 | 1 |
| 10.3759 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | iceMAN - 1995 SPORTS NOTY Winner | Fri Mar 08 1996 17:07 | 2 |
| 10.3760 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | The engineer formerly known as Roland | Fri Mar 08 1996 17:09 | 1 |
| Why should he have to state who he voted for to anyone?
|
| 10.3761 | ultimate in lame | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Mar 08 1996 18:16 | 4 |
| 10.3762 | | PHHSS1::DFAUST | Bad Things, man... | Fri Mar 08 1996 19:36 | 3 |
| The Knicks fired Don Nelson today.
|
| 10.3763 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | You never can tell | Fri Mar 08 1996 20:11 | 1 |
| Any Chris Ford sightings?
|
| 10.3764 | Nellie | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Mar 08 1996 20:32 | 2 |
| 10.3765 | | NIOSS1::REEVE | | Fri Mar 08 1996 21:17 | 1 |
| He voted for Buchanan. No sheets.
|
| 10.3766 | This year's contest??? | AKOCOA::BREEN | You never can tell | Tue Mar 12 1996 14:18 | 19 |
| So who is doing the actual ncaa bracket contest? Ttom?
One way to do it is to take Ttom's list from yesterday and just put the
number of wins next to the teams, easier to fill out and
easier(possibly) to compute.
If all else fails the "pool brothers" will do it out of hbabha::pool.
|
| 10.3767 | | CAM::WAY | There's the devil to pay! | Mon Mar 18 1996 17:39 | 16 |
| Question:
We were talking about Donyell Marshall the other day and the
consensus was that he probably won't ever be a very good NBA
player.
That got me to wondering what happened to Chris Smith.
Is he the Smith that I see in the Golden State box scores now?
'Saw
PS "We" was me and a couple of buddies.....
|
| 10.3768 | gettin better | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Mon Mar 18 1996 17:47 | 7 |
| Wail, don't write off ol' Donyell quite yet.
Do to Chris Mullins' injury, Marshall is getting a lot more playing time.
Also, he supposedly showed up bulked up thised year which slowed him
down. No he's down and back to form.
TTom
|
| 10.3769 | | CAM::WAY | There's the devil to pay! | Tue Mar 19 1996 11:28 | 1 |
| What about Chris Smith?
|
| 10.3770 | | MYLIFE::mccarthy | Mike McCarthy SHR3-1/P32 237-2468 | Tue Mar 19 1996 12:19 | 5 |
| Joe Smith plays for the Warriors.
I thought Chris Smith was with the Timberwolves.
Mike
|
| 10.3771 | | CAM::WAY | There's the devil to pay! | Tue Mar 19 1996 12:56 | 12 |
| >
>I thought Chris Smith was with the Timberwolves.
>
That's what I thought too, but I don't follow the NBA and wasn't sure if he
might have been traded. Also, I don't get the paper during the week so I
hardly ever seen any box scores -- just on Saturday and Sunday.
But thanks for the info Mike.
'Saw
|
| 10.3772 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | SPORTS 1995 NOTY & RED_SOX Most Knowledgeable Noter Award! | Tue Mar 19 1996 13:45 | 2 |
| 10.3773 | and Wesson | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Tue Mar 19 1996 13:49 | 6 |
| Bonecrusher Smith is the onliest heavyweight champion to have a college
degree. He lasted the full 12 rounds with Tyson to boot!~
Snuffy Smith is a good choke artist, too.
TTom
|
| 10.3774 | stay there | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Mon Mar 25 1996 15:09 | 17 |
| And then there's Cedric Ceballos who left the LA Lakers without a word,
no phone call, no letters, no flowers.
A couple days later he shows back up in Jerry West's office and tells him
it was a family problem that he had to handle. Of course, he was too busy
or whatever to make a 5 second phone call but at least he had time to
have hisself a_apparently good ol' time in Lake Havisu City.
And Cedric made it clear that it wasn't anything to do with getting
dimished since Magic has come back. When asked if'n it had anything to do
with Del Harris, he replied that he din't wanna crush Harris' ego but it
had nothing to do with that scumbag jerkoff asshole (with some
embellishment).
In any case, he lost about 60 grand for the 2 games plus fines.
TTom
|
| 10.3775 | | OUTSRC::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Mar 25 1996 15:23 | 4 |
| 10.3776 | | NIOSS1::REEVE | | Tue Mar 26 1996 12:40 | 2 |
| The original London Bridge burned down several hundred years ago. Like
most things in Arizona, what you have now is a faux makeover.
|
| 10.3777 | some all-somethings | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Fri Apr 05 1996 14:46 | 12 |
| Wail, now that this here season is winding down, here's some of my
opinions on all-whatever thised year.
All-Pro: David Robinson (MVP), Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen,
Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill
All-Rookie: Joe Smith (ROY), Damon Stoudamire, Jerry Stackhouse
Michael Finely, Antonio McDyess
Coach o' Year: Mike Fratello
TTom
|
| 10.3778 | Anyone watch this interview? | CNTROL::SALMON | | Mon Apr 08 1996 16:22 | 24 |
| Did anyone happen to catch the half time show during the Lakers-San
Antonio game yesterday? they interviewed Steve Kerr of the Bulls. I
only caught some of it, but they were asking him about something that
happened during one of his freshman games at Arizona.
It seems that they were playing at ASU, and some of the fans (10-12
fans) were asking him "where's your father"? I guess it burned hiom up
pretty bad, and he came out in the 2nd half and torched them up with
six 3 pointers. He said it was probably the only game he has played
with any sort of vindication, and that he was glad he was hot that day.
He also said that back in high school that they (he and his dad) never
dreamed he would be playing in the NBA. He said he was hoping just to
catch on with a college and play college ball. He also said that
sometimes he thinks his dad is "pulling some strings" for him "up
there"! Does anyone know what the circumstances of his fathers death
was, and why these classless ASU fans were all over him about it? By
the way, he also stated that he received hundreds of letter of
sympathy from ASU fans that were at the game, and were disgusted by the
few idiots that were yelling at him.
JS
|
| 10.3780 | That's grounds for killing someone! | CNTROL::SALMON | | Mon Apr 08 1996 17:10 | 5 |
| RE: -1
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Damn, what kind of scumball would harrass a kid over his fathers
execution? UNBELIEVABLE!
|
| 10.3781 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Mon Apr 08 1996 18:36 | 12 |
| > Damn, what kind of scumball would harrass a kid over his fathers
> execution? UNBELIEVABLE!
There's a lot of people in this world who have a tremendous capacity for
cruelty. There's a lot of people in this world whose brains automatically turn
off when they take their first sip of alcohol. There's a lot of a__holes in
this world.
Probably some combination of the above three factors.....
|
| 10.3782 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Thu Apr 18 1996 16:40 | 6 |
|
Just updated the over/under contest for the NBA over in the pool note. Only
2 teams up in the air. Spurs and Pacers ane 1 victory each from going over.
Suns own the distinction of being the farthest away from going over.......
mike
|
| 10.3784 | predictions? | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Wed Apr 24 1996 14:55 | 29 |
| > Pacers aren't going anywhere without Reggie.
Is that a prediction?
Do we need a prediction contest?
Here's the lineup:
1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |-------- --------| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|-------- --------|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |-------- | | --------| New York 5
----------------- | | ----------------
|-------|
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |-------- | | --------| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|-------- --------|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | | ----------------
6 Portland |-------- --------| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
TTom
|
| 10.3785 | It's the Sonics' year | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks UMass for a great season! | Wed Apr 24 1996 15:10 | 28 |
|
Here's my fearless forecast:
1 Seattle Chicago 1
-----------------Sea. 3-0 Chi. 3-0----------------
8 Sacramento |-------- --------| Miami 8
----------------- |Sea. 4-3 Chi. 4-0 |----------------
|-------- --------|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
-----------------Hou. 3-1 | | Cle. 3-1|----------------
5 Houston |-------- |Sea. | --------| New York 5
----------------- |4-2 | ----------------
|------|
2 San Antonio | Chi. | Olrando 2
-----------------S.A. 3-0 4-1| Orl. 3-0|---------------
7 Phoenix |-------- | | --------| Detroit 7
----------------- |S.A. 4-1| |Ind. 4-2| ----------------
|-------- ---------|
3 Utah | -| Indiana 3
-----------------Port. 3-1 Ind. 3-1|----------------
6 Portland |-------- --------| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
NBA FINALS: SEATTLE 4-2
NAZZ
|
| 10.3786 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Wed Apr 24 1996 15:17 | 21 |
|
1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |--SAC--- --MIA---| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|--HOU--- --CLE---|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |--HOU--- | | --CLE---| New York 5
----------------- | | ----------------
SAN |--CLE--| CLE
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |--SAN--- | | --DET---| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|--SAN--- --ATL---|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | | ----------------
6 Portland |--UTA--- --ATL---| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
|
| 10.3787 | nice to have a winner | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Wed Apr 24 1996 15:22 | 19 |
| 1 Seattle 3-1 3-0 Chicago 1
----------------- Seattle Bulls ----------------
8 Sacramento |-------- 4-2 4-0 --------| Miami 8
----------------- | Houston Bulls | ----------------
|-------- --------|
4 LA Lakers 3-2 | | | | 3-2 Cleveland 4
----------------- Hous. | | | | Cavs ----------------
5 Houston |-------- | 4-1 | --------| New York 5
----------------- | Bulls | ----------------
|-------|
2 San Antonio 3-0 | Hous | 3-1 Olrando 2
----------------- S.A. | 4-3 | Magic ----------------
7 Phoenix |-------- 4-1 | | 4-2 --------| Detroit 7
----------------- | S.A. | | Magic | ----------------
|-------- --------|
3 Utah 3-2 | |3-2 Indiana 3
----------------- Port. | |Pacers ----------------
6 Portland |-------- Bulls 4-1 --------| Atlanta 6
----------------- DA WINNERS ----------------
|
| 10.3788 | Magic and Michael show in finals, Bulls too strong | AKOCOA::BREEN | You never can tell | Wed Apr 24 1996 15:36 | 19 |
| 1 Seattle 3-1 3-0 Chicago 1
----------------- Seattle Bulls ----------------
8 Sacramento |-------- 4-2 4-0 --------| Miami 8
----------------- | Lakers Bulls | ----------------
|-------- --------|
4 LA Lakers 3-2 | | | | 3-2 Cleveland 4
----------------- Lakers| | | | N.Y. ----------------
5 Houston |-------- | 4-3 | --------| New York 5
----------------- | Bulls | ----------------
|-------|
2 San Antonio 3-2 |Lakers | 3-1 Olrando 2
----------------- S.A. | 4-3 | Magic ----------------
7 Phoenix |-------- 4-3 | | 4-2 --------| Detroit 7
----------------- | Utah | | Magic | ----------------
|-------- --------|
3 Utah 3-2 | |3-2 Indiana 3
----------------- Utah | |Atlanta ----------------
6 Portland |-------- Bulls 4-2 --------| Atlanta 6
----------------- DA WINNERS ----------------
|
| 10.3790 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Wed Apr 24 1996 16:03 | 22 |
|
1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- Sea Chi ----------------
8 Sacramento |-------- --------| Miami 8
----------------- | Hou Chi | ----------------
|-------- --------|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- Hou | | | | NY ----------------
5 Houston |-------- | Chi | --------| New York 5
----------------- | | ----------------
|-------|
2 San Antonio | Hou | Olrando 2
----------------- SA | | Orl ----------------
7 Phoenix |-------- | | --------| Detroit 7
----------------- | Port | | Orl | ----------------
|-------- --------|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- Port | Bulls champs | Atl ----------------
6 Portland |-------- --------| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
TTom
|
| 10.3792 | who's pick is this | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Wed Apr 24 1996 16:07 | 7 |
| > <<< Note 10.3790 by XTATIC::CHILDS >>>
...
>TTom
Hey, what's the deal here :+}
|
| 10.3793 | bad editing ;^) | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Wed Apr 24 1996 16:27 | 0 |
| 10.3794 | | AD::HEATH | The albatross and whales they are my brother | Wed Apr 24 1996 16:28 | 22 |
| Here's the lineup:
1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |--SEA--- --CHI---| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|---HOU-- --CHI---|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |--HOU--- | | --NYN---| New York 5
----------------- | HOU | ----------------
|--CHI--|
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |--SAN--- | | --ORL---| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|---SAN-- --ORL---|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | CHICAGO IN 7 | ----------------
6 Portland |--UTA--- --IND---| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
|
| 10.3795 | format | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Wed Apr 24 1996 17:01 | 11 |
| FWIW, here's how the format of the playoffs:
Round 1: Best of 5, 2-2-1
Round 2: Conference Semifinals, best of 7, 2-2-1-1-1
Round 3: Conference Finals, best of 7, 2-2-1-1-1
Round 4: Finals, best of 7, 2-3-2
TTom
|
| 10.3797 | | BIS1::palmke.bro.dec.com::ROOSEN | | Thu Apr 25 1996 07:15 | 23 |
| 1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |--SEA--- --CHI---| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|---HOU-- --CHI---|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |--HOU--- | | --NYN---| New York 5
----------------- | HOU | ----------------
|--CHI--|
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |--PHX--- | | --ORL---| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|---UTA-- --ORL---|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | CHICAGO IN 6 | ----------------
6 Portland |--UTA--- --IND---| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
PADDY
|
| 10.3798 | | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Atlanta, Home of the WS Champs | Thu Apr 25 1996 13:54 | 24 |
|
1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |--SEA--- --CHI---| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|---SEA-- --CHI---|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |--HOU--- | | --NYN---| New York 5
----------------- | SA | ----------------
|--CHI--|
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |--SA---- | | --ORL---| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|---SA--- --ORL---|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | CHICAGO IN 5 | ----------------
6 Portland |--UTA--- --IND---| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
|
| 10.3800 | MI SCAROANA | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Thu Apr 25 1996 15:40 | 24 |
|
1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |--SEA--- --CHI---| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|---SEA-- --CHI---|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |--HOU--- | | --NYN---| New York 5
----------------- | SEA | ----------------
|--CHI--|
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |--SA---- | | --ORL---| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|---SA--- --ORL---|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | CHICAGO IN 4 | ----------------
6 Portland |--POR--- --ATL---| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
|
| 10.3801 | interesting poll | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Thu Apr 25 1996 18:03 | 121 |
|
USA TODAY surveyed NBA players, coaches, trainers and general
managers in seven different categories. Of 435 ballots distributed,
301 (69%) were returned. Voters could pick teammates, their own
coach or home arena. All selections were confidential. The results:
Best player
Player Team Points
1. Michael Jordan Chicago 132
2. Hakeem Olajuwon Houston 25
3. Scottie Pippen Chicago 19
4. Anfernee Hardaway Orlando 7
5. Shaquille O'Neal Orlando 3
6. Grant Hill Detroit 2
(Magic Johnson of the Los Angeles Lakers, David Robinson of San
Antonio, Charles Barkley of Phoenix, Mitch Richmond of Sacramento
and Shawn Kemp of Seattle each received one vote)
**Unbelivable that Mourning didn't get any votes**
Most underrated player
Player Team Points
1. Mitch Richmond Sacramento 31
2. Rod Strickland Portland 18
3. Gheorghe Muresan Washington 14
4. Vin Baker Milwaukee 9
5. Armon Gilliam New Jersey 5
- Terrell Brandon Cleveland 5
7. P.J. Brown New Jersey 4
- Allan Houston Detroit 4
- Vinny Del Negro San Antonio 4
- Avery Johnson San Antonio 4
- Mookie Blaylock Atlanta 4
(Sixty other players received between one and three votes)
**Given the results of best player poll Mourning belongs here**
Best rookie
Player Team Points
1. Damon Stoudamire Toronto 75
2. Joe Smith Golden State 65
3. Antonio McDyess Denver 27
4. Jerry Stackhouse Philadelphia 13
5. Michael Finley Phoenix 6
6. Arvydas Sabonis Portland 5
- Eric Williams Boston 5
- Bryant Reeves Vancouver 5
9. Allan Henderson Atlanta 2
10. Kevin Garnett Minnesota 1
-- Voshon Lenard Miami 1
-- Don Reid Detroit 1
Team to win it all
Team Points
1. Chicago 141
2. Houston 18
- Orlando 18
4. Seattle 15
5. Indiana 9
6. L.A. Lakers 4
7. Miami 3
8. Atlanta 2
- Detroit 2
10. Utah 1
-- Sacramento 1
Coach you'd like to play for
Coach Team Points
1. Lenny Wilkens Atlanta 32
2. Phil Jackson Chicago 25
3. Pat Riley Miami 25
4. Rudy Tomjanovich Houston 12
5. Jerry Sloan Utah 11
- Larry Brown Indiana 11
7. Bob Hill San Antonio 8
8. Del Harris L.A. Lakers 7
- George Karl Seattle 7
- Brian Hill Orlando 7 hard to believe
Most difficult arena to play in
Arena Points
1. United Center (Bulls) 57
2. Orlando Arena (Magic) 22
3. Madison Square Garden (Knicks) 14
- Delta Center (Jazz) 14
5. Alamodome (Spurs) 10
6. McNichols Arena (Nuggets) 8
- Key Arena (Sonics) 8
8. L.A. Sports Arena (Clippers) 7
9. Charlotte Coliseum (Hornets) 5
- Skydome (Raptors) 5
(The Forum (Lakers), Bradley Center (Bucks), Summit (Rockets),
Reunion Arena (Mavericks), and The Palace (Pistons) were the only
NBA buildings that didn't get any votes.)
**Celtics must have vote for the Fleet Center themselves**
Dirtiest player
Player Team Points
1. Dennis Rodman Chicago 24
2. John Stockton Utah 12 WOW!!!!!!!!!!
- Karl Malone Utah 12
- J.R. Reid New York 12 should have been higher
- A.C. Green Phoenix 12
- Charles Oakley New York 12
7. Shawn Bradley New Jersey 6
8. David Wood Dallas 6
- Frank Brickowski Seattle 6
10. Rick Mahorn New Jersey 5
(The only team with three players receiving votes was the New
York Knicks, with Oakley and Reid, and Anthony Mason, 3.)<HR>
|
| 10.3802 | some opinions | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Thu Apr 25 1996 18:25 | 26 |
| What you have here is a case of a few votes skewing the results. In the
dirtiest player, Stockton got 12 votes outta 300, a pretty small
percentage.
FWIW:
Best player
Michael Jordan Chicago
Most underrated player
Mookie Blaylock Atlanta
Best rookie
Joe Smith Golden State
Team to win it all
Chicago
Coach you'd like to play for
George Karl Seattle
Most difficult arena to play in
United Center (Bulls)
Dirtiest player
J.R. Reid New York
|
| 10.3803 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Thu Apr 25 1996 18:32 | 1 |
| agreed TTom but I mean Stockton? I thought he wore a halo......
|
| 10.3804 | go figger | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Thu Apr 25 1996 18:55 | 13 |
| Wail, ya always got people who love to hate teams and players for little
or no apparent reason.
I've never heard anything bad about Stockton except from people who have
to tear him down in order to try to make a case that their guy is the
bestest and even then it's usually related to him not being as good as
his records and stats and not that he's dirty.
Evidently there's at least 12 people out there that have copped some
attitude on Stockton. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that Malone got 12
votes, too.
TTom
|
| 10.3805 | Had to get 1 in here | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Thu Apr 25 1996 19:11 | 24 |
| 1 Seattle Chicago 1
----------------- ----------------
8 Sacramento |--SEA--- --CHI---| Miami 8
----------------- | | ----------------
|---LAL-- --CHI---|
4 LA Lakers | | | | Cleveland 4
----------------- | | | | ----------------
5 Houston |--LAL--- | | --CLE---| New York 5
----------------- | S A | ----------------
|--CHI--|
2 San Antonio | | Olrando 2
----------------- | | ----------------
7 Phoenix |--SA---- | | --ORL---| Detroit 7
----------------- | | | | ----------------
|---SA--- --ORL---|
3 Utah | | Indiana 3
----------------- | CHICAGO IN 4 | ----------------
6 Portland |--POR--- --IND---| Atlanta 6
----------------- ----------------
Chicago goes 15-0 :-)
|
| 10.3806 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Thu Apr 25 1996 19:49 | 8 |
| >Evidently there's at least 12 people out there that have copped some
>attitude on Stockton. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that Malone got 12
>votes, too.
Furthermore, aren't there 12 men on a team?
But if they only get one vote apiece, you'd need an entire team hating each
guy...
|
| 10.3807 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Fri Apr 26 1996 13:31 | 12 |
| Well if last night was playoff basketball the NBA is in serious trouble. I
watched alot of the Ind/Atl the game was physical and intense but one of the
most sloppy contests I've ever watched. Neither of these teams will challenge
either Chicago or Orlando. Too many guys missed pases just because they weren't
paying attention.
I then watched the Hous/LA game until I dozed off. Magic ain't too magically
anymore is he? This was the first time I've seen him since he was back and
I think he had more turnovers in the first 10 minutes than he did in his career.
Not that diappoints me but how'd the Lakers blow that 9 point lead they had?
mike
|
| 10.3808 | not too good | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Fri Apr 26 1996 13:40 | 13 |
| Add to that the fack that the Knicks drubbed the Cavs in Cleveland where
there were over 4,000 empty seats.
Only Utah won at home and Portland surrendered a big lead to have that
happen.
The onliest one of the crowd lasted night that might have any chance is
the Rockets. Considering that most of the starters missed significant
portions of the season and are just now getting back together, and throw
in one of the great playoff performers ever, Hakeem, and I'm not quite
ready to throw them aside with the likes of the rest of this crowd.
TTom
|
| 10.3809 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Apr 26 1996 14:09 | 23 |
|
>> Add to that the fack that the Knicks drubbed the Cavs in
>> Cleveland where there were over 4,000 empty seats.
Po' po' Cleveland. Their only love was the Browns and
they packed up and left for someone with more money
leaving Clevelanders with a house full of dirty faced
kids and a bunch of painful memories. And next fall Groaner
and Hal will get to see the ex tooling around in a new
convertible with some smarmy rich guy. Take it. Take
another little pice of my heart now, baby. You know you
got it if it makes you feel good. Meanwhile, the Cavs
are continuing their franchise long history of making
no history. And the most interesting thing about the
Indians is trying to guess when Albert Belle will do
something that'll get him Don King's old cell at the
Ohio state pen. No wonder Groaner is prone to repeating
himself ad nauseum. Growing up a sports fan in the 60s
in Cleveland has obviously induced a sort of post tramatic
stress syndrome in po' po' Paul. But it's gives us all
something to laugh about and that's really the important
thing.
|
| 10.3810 | | SALEM::DODA | A little too smart for a big dumb town | Fri Apr 26 1996 14:27 | 3 |
| OUTSTANDING!
|
| 10.3811 | Must have been a real snoozer! | CNTROL::SALMON | | Fri Apr 26 1996 14:29 | 8 |
| RE: 10.3807:
"I watched alot of the Ind/Atl the game was physical and intense but
one of the most sloppy contests I've ever watched"
This, coming from a Hoya fan?
Guess I won't be watching many playoff games this year!
|
| 10.3812 | Tommy's redhot - feed him, feed him | AKOCOA::BREEN | You never can tell | Fri Apr 26 1996 14:32 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.3813 | Random comments from opening night of playoffs | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks UMass for a great season! | Fri Apr 26 1996 17:53 | 12 |
| Lakers decided not to score for an eight minute stretch in the 4th
quarter lasted night.
Knicks shot 17-22 from 3-point land vs Cleveland.
Pacers sip without Reggie. Eddie J. and the once great Ricky Pierce
can't get it done any more.
Stockton had 23 assists lasted night - not bad! One off the all-time
single game playoff record, held by Magic.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3815 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Fri Apr 26 1996 18:34 | 2 |
| I read that it one off of Sotockton's own record of 24 assists not Magic's.
Unless they share the highest playoff total?
|
| 10.3816 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri Apr 26 1996 18:49 | 11 |
|
>> and Clinton, MA clearly produces people with "bonehead" syndrome -
>> Heiser, Brydie...
Yup, Clinton produces boneheads, chowderheads, eggheads, deadheads,
meatheads, muttonheads, beanheads, head cases, head lamps, head
rests, head of the class, class clowns, class action law suits,
suits of armor, Armor all, olly olly in come free. But what it
doesn't produce is rabid football fans without a pro team. For that
you have to go to Cleveland.
|
| 10.3817 | He shoots he scores | SALEM::DODA | A little too smart for a big dumb town | Fri Apr 26 1996 19:03 | 1 |
| Sha-wing...
|
| 10.3818 | | MKOTS3::tcc122.mko.dec.com::long | Beat em Bucs | Fri Apr 26 1996 19:08 | 3 |
| <set voice = Johnny Most>
Stops...pops...BANG!
|
| 10.3819 | :-) | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Fri Apr 26 1996 19:47 | 3 |
|
Brydie stole the Ball. Brydie stole the ball!!
|
| 10.3824 | wheres DAD! | BIGQ::WEST | Kevin 225-4528 HLO | Mon Apr 29 1996 17:10 | 8 |
|
Mike, you may not of been born in Clinton but you lived there most of
your life......by the way hows your Dad, haven't seen him since you
sent him that Arizona St hat for Christmas.....where did he move to??
Heard your making so much money these days you bought him a Condo??
/westy *^)
|
| 10.3829 | | BIGQ::WEST | Kevin 225-4528 HLO | Mon Apr 29 1996 20:19 | 6 |
|
Now the children can go back outside and play, hip hip hooray!!!!
Groaner you belong in the city where no one knows anybody......
|
| 10.3830 | HTH | AD::HEATH | The albatross and whales they are my brother | Tue Apr 30 1996 10:40 | 4 |
|
Northboro blows Paul.
|
| 10.3832 | Iverson may join | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Tue Apr 30 1996 14:34 | 13 |
| At this point, there's 9 underclassmen who've announced so far for the
NBA draft and one high schooler. The deadline is May 12.
Among those who haven't gone public are Allen Iverson who may have the
decision taken outta his hands. It's being reported that he's under
investigation for having a high dollar car furnished by a friend, nifty
little 130 grand Mercedes.
Tim Duncan aint talking, too. I've heard conflicting reports about what
he's gonna do, including he's rumored to be leaning toward staying in.
Something about having fun in college or some other scandalous situation.
TTom
|
| 10.3833 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Tue Apr 30 1996 15:49 | 6 |
| > Pacers sip without Reggie. Eddie J. and the once great Ricky Pierce
> can't get it done any more.
This little show should convince the Indiana front office (if it stupidly
wasn't already) that they HAVE TO pay Reggie whatever it takes to keep
him in a Pacers uni.
|
| 10.3836 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Tue Apr 30 1996 16:35 | 6 |
|
I believe it was more like "they're getting alot there for 20 million: or
"for that he expects 20 million".......Unfortunately my man Zo still has
alot of growing up to do.
mike
|
| 10.3837 | Hard times for Zo | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Tue Apr 30 1996 16:55 | 13 |
| Yeah, ol' Zo aint lookin good agin the Bulls.
The local press is having itself a genuine orgy reporting whatever anyone
is saying bad about Zo and his obviously poor play. I mean we're hearing
form guys from Fort Lauderdale and the likes.
The hate fest, of course, centers around his new paycheck that he'll most
certainly get which will be for double-digits per year at the least.
case, Zo still seems to have the confidence of Pat Riley, whatever that
means.
TTom
|
| 10.3838 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. Bull... | Tue Apr 30 1996 17:20 | 4 |
| Not that anyone should really expect it but I think you better wait for
the two games in Miami before burying Zo. I have seen some
overwhelming favorites falter on the other teams court, from
Celtics-Knicks/Cavs/Phoenix to Bob Petit's Hawks vs Fort Wayne Pistons.
|
| 10.3839 | yeah, but watta team | HBAHBA::HAAS | floor,chair,couch,bed | Tue Apr 30 1996 17:27 | 10 |
| Also, afore you start putting a lot of the blame on Zo, I guess you gotta
start piling some praises on him for leading the Heat to the playoffs in
the firsted place.
Consider that he plays along side of Tim Hardaway, newly annointed
malcontent and past-his-prime, Rex Chapman who never met a shot he din't
like, and Keith Gatling who's mostly noted for his sweat band. Only Walt
Williams seems to be wanted by any other team.
TTom
|
| 10.3840 | Kobe made a major mistake | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks UMass for a great season! | Tue Apr 30 1996 19:16 | 9 |
| Hearing some negatives about the NBA potential of Kobe Bryant. Seems
like he's a boy without a position, since he played center in HS but
handled the ball a lot. He's not strong enough to play forward in the
NBA and he can't shoot from the outside, so he's not the prototype for
an off guard. Perhaps he can get by with athletic ability and youth,
but I certainly expect him to be at the end of some mediocre team's
bench most of next season.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3841 | he'll go middle firsted round | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Apr 30 1996 19:30 | 25 |
| I'm hearing mixed signals.
On one hand a group of experts is saying that he's inexperienced, doesn't
really match up with any position in the NBA and has a_overall inflated
value of how good he is.
There's almost no way he can play the point, prolly the most difficult
position in the league, IMHO. He's no where near big enough to mix it up
in the middle. That leaves him at 2 or 3 while he apparently has little
or not outside shot.
FWIW, he doesn't seem to be as good as Vince Carter was lasted year afore
suffering from a year of Dean.
On the other hand, almost everyone says that he'll be picked around #10.
If'n that happens, then will have made a couple of million bucks by the
time his class graduates from college in 2000.
In any case, he's hardly in the league with Kevin Garnett who has
exceptional skills to go along with also being 6-11.
Still, I wish him luck. He's gonna need it.
TTom
|
| 10.3842 | We'll still be in the lottery!! | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Tue Apr 30 1996 19:32 | 4 |
|
Don't worry the Celts will take him at 9 and in three years he'll be
playing for the Lakers. :-(
|
| 10.3843 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. Bull... | Wed May 01 1996 14:00 | 1 |
| He's too tall for the C's to be interested.
|
| 10.3844 | Pistons outta here!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 01 1996 15:01 | 10 |
| Wail, the firsted team out is Detroit. Orlando swept 'em.
FWIW, everyone but ROCK::HUBER had the Magic.
Chicago, New York and San Antonio are all at 2-0.
Atlanta's the onliest real underdog leading their series unless you
consider Houston the dog in the Lakers series. And the Hawks are helped
by not having to deal with Reggie Miller.
TTom
|
| 10.3845 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. Bull... | Wed May 01 1996 15:50 | 3 |
| That Houston - Laker series will be pivotal in this contest along with
Knicks and Atla/Indy. Did I miss the score of last night's game? Who
won?
|
| 10.3846 | Playoff action heating up | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Thanks UMass for a great season! | Wed May 01 1996 15:55 | 19 |
| Horrendous call that went against the Pistons cost them the game last
night. Here's the situation: Pistons go on a 11-0 run to cut the
Magic lead to two. Magic score, Detroit scores. Magic have the ball,
up two, 35 seconds left. Pistons play great D, Magic forced to heave
up a player from the right that goes over the basket. Ho Grant gets
the rebound, puts it back in clearly after the 24 second clock goes
off. Refs rule ball grazed the rim. Replay shows it missed by a mile.
Not only do refs not give the ball to Detroit, they allow the Ho Grant
basket, then though everybody stopped when the horn went off. Magic
end up winnin' by 3.
Rockets-Lakers game was spectacular, the kind of game you dream about
in the playoffs. Rockets make 12 of their first 13 shots, but can't
put the Lakers away. LA comes back and ties it up, and the game goes
back and forth until about 8 minutes left, LA up three. Houston
defense proceeds to shut LA down for six minutes without a point.
Houston scores 13 of their own, win by six.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3847 | so far | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 01 1996 16:13 | 23 |
| I caught a replay of the play that Nazz described in the Magic game. To
say it was a bad call is a_understatement. The refs blew it big time and
if'n the league has any cajones they should publicly reprimand this crew
and make sure they stay home for the rested of the playoffs.
Hail, they should be fined!~
The Lakers-Rockets series is spectacular. Magic encouraged everyone to
watch closely as he predicts the winner of this series will represent the
West.
Right now, the series are:
Orlando beats Detroit 3-0 (refs sucked)
Chicago leads Miami 2-0 (game at Miami tonight)
Atlanta leads Pacers 2-1 (game at Atlanta Thursday)
New York leads Cleveland 2-0 (game at new York tonight)
Seattle leads Sacramento 2-1 (game at Sacramento Thursday)
San Anotnio leads Phoenix 2-0 (game at Phoenix tonight)
Utah leads Portland 2-1 (gage at Portland tonight)
Houston leads LA Lakers 2-1 (game at Houston Thursday)
TTom
|
| 10.3848 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed May 01 1996 19:47 | 14 |
|
Are the refs allowed to review the play on a TV remote? If not, then
the 24 sec. shot clock violation being missed is alright (the ball WAS
close, don't forget to count the karem off the backboard that JUST
missed the rim).
Either way, I don't really have a problem with the call unless they CAN
look at replays. Just because one teams things there is a violation
and stops playing is not an excuse not to count the backet. If the
refs believe they made the right call concerning the clock, then they
by DEFINITION made the right call on the basket.
Marc
|
| 10.3849 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Wed May 01 1996 20:22 | 4 |
| I believe only the college game can use the tv-replay to change calls and both
the pros and college can use the tv-replay to adjust the time left in the game.
mike
|
| 10.3850 | couple more settled | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 02 1996 13:37 | 12 |
| A couple more settled and a couple more linger...
Orlando beats Detroit 3-0 (refs sucked)
Chicago beats Miami 3-0 (Heat front line sucked)
New York beats Cleveland 3-0 (everybody sucked)
Atlanta leads Pacers 2-1 (game at Atlanta tonight)
San Anotnio leads Phoenix 2-1 (game at Phoenix Friday)
Seattle leads Sacramento 2-1 (game at Sacramento tonight)
Utah ties Portland 2-2 (game at Utah Sunday)
Houston leads LA Lakers 2-1 (game at Houston tonight)
TTom
|
| 10.3851 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu May 02 1996 15:51 | 21 |
| 10.3852 | another vote for Houston in the West | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 02 1996 16:33 | 19 |
| I liked Houston all along and think they'll give Jordan, Pippen and the
rest of the Bulls the best run. I don't see 'em beating the Bulls but it
would shore be a better series than anyone else in the West with the
possible exception of Seattle.
The Sonics present several problems to the Bulls the foremost of which is
that Payton is prolly the hardest guard in the league for Jordan to try
to cover. I guess that Jackson would put Harper on him and leave Jordan
to cover the much slower Hersey Hawkins.
With the Rockets, they have Hakeem, who caint be guarded and who has shown
that he's one of the all time great playoff players.
In the East, the best shot the league has against the Bulls is the Magic
who haven't shown that they can win on the road which is a major
disadvantage. The Rockets apparently don't care if'n they're on the road
or not.
TTom
|
| 10.3853 | early outs | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 02 1996 17:08 | 27 |
| Here's who's declared so far for the NBA.
For the College guys, as long as they don't retain a_agent, they can
"undeclare". The NCAA is saying that the high schoolers are inelibible
for NCAA because sending the letter to the NBA is considered to be an
intent of professionalism and they players would have to appeal to the
NCAA to get their eligibility back.
Underclassmen who have declared for the NBA:
Ray Allen, G, Connecticut
Marcus Camby, C, Massachusetts
Ronnie Henderson, G, LSU
Allen Iverson, G, Georgetown
Dontae Jones, F, Mississippi St
Stephon Marbury, G, Georgia Tech
Vitaly Potapenko, C, Wright St
Darnell Robinson, C, Arkansas
Samaki Walker, C, Louisville
Lorenzon Wright, C, Memphis
High Schoolers who have declared for the NBA:
Kobe Bryant, 6-6 ?, Lower Merion H.S., Ardmore, PA
Jermaine O'Neal, 6-11 F, Eau Claire H.S., Columbia, SC
TTom
|
| 10.3854 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Fri May 03 1996 12:57 | 7 |
| Just how good are these 10 and how GOOD is this years draft ?
Just curious if Boston will land anyone decent this year or
are they still TO GOOD to get a GREAT PICK ?
Washington will be a VERY intresting team next year..
MaB
|
| 10.3855 | Don't Knock Those Old Spurs Teams! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Fri May 03 1996 13:45 | 15 |
| re: .3851
Hi Mike,
I have to disagree with you on your San Antonio assessment. By
that I refer to your stating they underachieved back in the old
Gilmore/Gervin/Moore/Mitchell days.
I really liked that team!
If you review, you will find that almost every year back then,
that Spurs team would lose in the western finals to the Lakers.
As good as that Spurs team was, the Lakers were simply better.
Tony
|
| 10.3856 | and then... | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 03 1996 14:58 | 22 |
| Wail, fer some reason, this one wasn't all that great. Somehow, it never
looked like the Lakers were gonna get it done. Rockets close 'em out,
3-1, with a 102-94 win.
Seattle has at least one monkey off its back. The beat Sacramento 101-83
to win it 3-1.
And the Pacers tied it up with the Hawks and it's headed to Indiana for
to see who moves on.
Here's how it sits:
Orlando beats Detroit 3-0 (refs sucked)
Chicago beats Miami 3-0 (Heat front line sucked)
New York beats Cleveland 3-0 (everybody sucked)
Pacers tie Hawks 2-2 (game at Indiana Sunday)
San Anotnio leads Phoenix 2-1 (game at Phoenix tonight)
Seattle beats Sacramento 3-1 (Sonics sucked less than usual)
Utah ties Portland 2-2 (game at Utah Sunday)
Houston beats LA Lakers 3-1 (Houston sucked it up)
TTom
|
| 10.3857 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Fri May 03 1996 18:01 | 7 |
|
Webber is an over-rated stiff. He puts up numbers, but I do
not believe he helps his team win.
Price may be completely done. So I wouldn't get too excited
about Washington. Howard is a free agent as well, and Cleveland has
their 1st round pick.
|
| 10.3858 | from USA Today | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Fri May 03 1996 19:17 | 101 |
| Burwell's probably my favorite sports writer. I love the comment about
Starks and Mason
This is Bryan Burwell's most recent column, originally appearing
Friday, May 3.
Knicks will go out with a bang or two against Bulls
At the root of most great sports rivalries usually is some unanswered
question of athletic superiority. We ache to see evenly matched
adversaries turn their head-to-head competitions into memorable,
grinding wars that often turn mortal enemies into everlasting
friends.
Of course, if you're not into all that highfalutin, ooey, gooey
romance of sport, and you're just a lover of good-old-fashioned
nastiness, hatred, conflict and controversy, then the New York
Knicks vs. the Chicago Bulls is definitely your kind of party.
What Bulls-Knicks lacks in romance and competitive balance, it
always makes up for in sheer contempt.
When this NBA Eastern Conference best-of-seven semifinal clash
begins Sunday, Bulls vs. Knicks will not remind us of something
as intriguing as a Chicago-Orlando conference final.
The fact is, the Knicks are clearly overmatched in this series.
While the Bulls aspire to reasonable championship heights, the
Knicks are well past their championship prime. Beating the Bulls
in a seven-game series would count as one of the greatest upsets
in NBA history.
This is a mismatch by any conventional wisdom. There is no romance
here like Ali-Frazier, Navratilova-Evert or even Celtics-Lakers.
What makes this one so anticipated is the contrast in styles (boxer
vs. slugger) and the history of animosity that has toned down
slightly only now that Pat Riley is inspiring a new crop of muggers
. . . er, ''force basketball'' players . . . in Miami.
The Bulls look upon the Knicks as graceless thugs, earth-bound
plodders, over-the-hill hack artists and ''Bad Boy'' wanna-bes.
(It should be noted that the real ''Bad Boys'' - Dennis Rodman,
John Salley and James Edwards - are on the Bulls' bench.)
The Knicks look upon the Bulls as whining, privileged characters,
dainty superstars who wilt at the first sight of a well-placed
elbow.
The Knicks, God bless their hallucinating souls, actually think
they're going to win this series. Already, Knicks guard John Starks
has started running his mouth. Before New York finished off the
Cleveland Cavaliers in the first round, Starks was telling the
New York tabloids how badly the Knicks wanted to play Chicago.
''We can beat the Bulls,'' Starks said. ''We already did it.''
Starks was, of course, reminiscing about that regular-season rout
of Chicago on national TV only two games after Jeff Van Gundy
was elevated to head coach and Don Nelson was fired.
Not the same, John, not the same. This is the postseason. The
Knicks were giddy as could be, geeked up about playing the Bulls
on national TV with a new coach. To the Bulls, it was just another
stop on their regular-season road show.
Sunday, that all changes.
Unlike the series with the Heat, who were just road kill on the
journey to the Ultimate Battle in Orlando, the Knicks are a little
different. Five reasons why the Knicks will push the Bulls to
six games:
1. They are older and more experienced than the Heat.
2. Patrick Ewing still is capable of wonderful, dominating things
in the playoffs.
3. He knows how to pass out of double teams.
4. Derek Harper is a fearless clutch defender.
5. Anthony Mason and Starks are the sort of unpredictable offensive
maniacs who can hurt you - or their own team for that matter -
and determine a game's outcome. Maze and Starks are the players
every coach has in mind when they say, ''You can't fool'em because
they ain't paying attention.''
So until we get to the Bulls vs. the Magic, until we get MJ, Scottie
Pippen and Rodman vs. Shaq Fu, Penny, Horace, 3-D and Nick Anderson,
Knicks-Bulls will do nicely.
This is the sort of series that will challenge the Bulls.
The Heat were novices at this ''force basketball'' stuff. The
Knicks are masters of it. They inflict pain on the court whenever
possible.
The Knicks will not beat Chicago, but Jordan's bad back and the
Bulls' championship resolve will be thoroughly tested before this
grinding war is over.
|
| 10.3859 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Fri May 03 1996 19:21 | 7 |
| I was thinking with the much improved George M at center, a few more
years out of price, webber growing up and then the PLAYER THEY ADD IN
the draft would give them a strong team... I didn't realize they
didn't have this years pick... Did cleveland get that pick for the
price trade ? Cleveland could end up with a decent draft...
MaB
|
| 10.3860 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Fri May 03 1996 19:54 | 9 |
|
Mark Price for Washington's 1996 1st round pick.
Hot Rod Williams for Phoenix's 1996 or 1997 1st round pick -
Cleveland's option.
Cleveland is rebuilding. To finish 4th in the East in a
rebuilding year is pretty impressive (see Celtics current
rebuilding fiasco for reference).
|
| 10.3861 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Mon May 06 1996 12:49 | 8 |
| Does cleveland get to chose which pick from phoenix they want ?
Right now 1996 would be what the 20th pick or so ? A lottery
pick for price could end up being a great deal..... too bad they
had to go and finish so damn high... They should have a very
intresting draft (Plus I'll assume they have $$$ To spend on free
agency as well ??? Dumping Price/WIlliams salary slots.
MaB
|
| 10.3862 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Mon May 06 1996 13:31 | 24 |
|
> Does cleveland get to chose which pick from phoenix they want ?
Yes; this years or next years.
> Right now 1996 would be what the 20th pick or so ?
16, I believe.
> A lottery
> pick for price could end up being a great deal..... too bad they
> had to go and finish so damn high...
Well, yes and no; having Phills and Brandon develop was certainly
a good thing...
> They should have a very
> intresting draft (Plus I'll assume they have $$$ To spend on free
> agency as well ??? Dumping Price/WIlliams salary slots.
Plus Daugherty's anticipated retirement, plus possibly dumping Ferry's
contract...
Joe
|
| 10.3863 | Round 1 over... | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon May 06 1996 14:16 | 28 |
| The firsted round is over:
Orlando beats Detroit 3-0
Chicago beats Miami 3-0
New York beats Cleveland 3-0
Atlanta beats Indiana 3-2
San Anotnio beats Phoenix 3-1
Seattle beats Sacramento 3-1
Utah beats Portland 3-2
Houston beats LA Lakers 3-1
And in the guessing game:
AD_HEATH 7
AKOCOA_BREEN 7
ODIXIE_ZOGRAN 7
WMOIS_CHAPALONIS_M 7
XTATIC_CHILDS 7
BIS1_ROOSEN 6
PHXSS1_HEISER 6
ROCK_GRONOWSKI 6
SHARE_DERRY 6
HBAHBA_HAAS 5
TNPUBS_NAZZARO 5
ROCK_HUBER 4
TPSYS_BROOKS 4
TTom
|
| 10.3864 | from yesterday's paper | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon May 06 1996 16:15 | 5 |
| 10.3865 | Payton wins DPOY; Walker goes to NBA | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon May 06 1996 17:09 | 14 |
| Semi hot off the presses:
Gary Payton has been named Defensive Player of the Year. Payton led
the league in steals.
Payton received 56 of a possible 113 votes from a panel of sports
writers and broadcasters. Chicago's Scottie Pippen was second with 15
votes while Dikembe Mutombo of Denver, last year's winner, was third
with 13 votes.
Also, Antoine Walker has thrown his hat into the NBA ring. Walker, a 6'8"
forward, would have been a junior had he stayed in Lexington.
TTom
|
| 10.3866 | All Defensive team | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Fri May 10 1996 14:12 | 23 |
|
Geez for someone who's supposedly slipping Rodman still makes first team.
Either the slip was prematurely announced or the rest of the league sucks.
Especially when the voting was done by the NBA coaches who amoung them I
doubt Rodman has any friends.
1 ST TEAM
Forwards: Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen
Center: David Robinson
Guards: Michael Jordan and Gary Payton
2 ND TEAM
Forwards: Horace Grant and Derrick Mckey
Center: hakeem Olajuwon
Guards: Mookie Blaylock and Bobby Phills
A bit of a surprise to me that Grant Hill didn't make it although if they had
a third team he'd have made that. No surprise to me but probably an absolute
shocker to Billte, Patrick Ewing didn't receive even a single vote.
mike
|
| 10.3867 | :-) | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Fri May 10 1996 15:43 | 3 |
|
What no Dino????
|
| 10.3868 | early outs | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon May 13 1996 16:22 | 29 |
| [from www.usatoday.com]
UNDERCLASSMEN IN THE NBA DRAFT
A list of the 21 non-college seniors who have made themselves eligible
for the 1996 NBA draft, held on June 26 at East Rutherford, N.J.:
Shareef Abdur-Rahim, f, freshman, California
Ray Allen, g, junior, Connecticut
Kobe Bryant, f, Lower Merion HS, Ardmore, Pa.
Marcus Camby, c, junior, Massachusetts
Erick Dampier, c, junior, Mississippi State
Ronnie Henderson, g, junior, LSU
Allen Iverson, g, sophomore, Georgetown
Dontae' Jones, f, junior, Mississippi State
Chris Kingsbury, f, junior, Iowa
Randy Livingston, g, sophomore, LSU
Stephon Marbury, g, freshman, Georgia Tech
Jeff McInnis, g, junior, North Carolina
Jermaine O'Neal, f, Eau Claire HS, Columbia, S.C.
Vitaly Potapenko, c, junior, Wright State
Darnell Robinson, c, junior, Arkansas
Mark Sanford, f, sophomore, Washington
Jess Settles, f, junior, Iowa
Kebu Stewart, f-c, junior, Cal State-Bakersfield
Antoine Walker, f, sophomore, Kentucky
Samaki Walker, c, sophomore, Louisville
Lorenzen Wright, c, sophomore, Memphis
|
| 10.3869 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Mon May 13 1996 17:43 | 5 |
|
I can't figure out which is funnier, Jesse Settles or McInnis. My guess is
that both are sick of their over-rated coaches......
mike
|
| 10.3870 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Mon May 13 1996 18:37 | 3 |
| I think McInnis' style is more suited to the pros. He's fairly quick
and has the right size. Problem is he's competing with hundreds of
other Todd Days. Power forward and true point guard is where it's at.
|
| 10.3871 | Quite An Accomplisment for the Sonics | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue May 14 1996 12:23 | 16 |
| What apathy we have here in this Conference!!!!
The Houston Rockets, two time defending champions have just
been swept. This resiliant team lost three close games in
a row!
Seattle, those underachievers in recent past were the sweepers!
This team, which had a label of psychological destruction, won
three close games in a row over the Rockets.
This is news!
Meanwhile, look at Utah/San Antonio. What is wrong with the
Spurs?
Tony
|
| 10.3873 | | XTATIC::CHILDS | | Tue May 14 1996 13:57 | 12 |
|
The Spurs are as soft a team as there is in the league with a head coach
in search of clues. Or maybe they're just fooled by appearences. Look at
Jeff Hornack, is there any other player in the league that looks less likely
to be a basketball player let alone a star? If you saw Stockton on the street
you wouldn't suspect him to be a player either. I really think it's more a
question of what's right with Utah than what's wrong with the Spurs. Utah's
been here more often so they have the experience, Spurs have noone who can
stop Malone and I suspect that Jeff and John are playing circles around Avery
and Vinny.........
mike
|
| 10.3874 | faithful grateful | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 14 1996 14:42 | 14 |
| re: McInnis
Dean let it be known in no uncertain terms that he was displeased with
this decision. The problem that McInnis faced, in addition to the usual
things associated with Dean, was that he was not even assured of
starting nexted year.
The Heels faithful need somebody to blame since it caint possibly be
Dean's fault and McInnis was the new JR.
McInnis has speed but lasted year he never could figger out which
position he wanted play, 1 or 2.
TTom
|
| 10.3875 | Never thought it would happen | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Tue May 14 1996 15:31 | 12 |
| I for one was suprised to see the Rockets go down under
the broom, but you have to credit the Sonics for staying
focused and disrupting the Dream.
I never thought that Seattle could handle the dream
the way they did, and game 1 was really the telling story.
Seattle has had trouble with great centers in the past, and
I just figured it was because they don't have one, but that
defense was great.
Tim
|
| 10.3876 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Tue May 14 1996 15:38 | 7 |
|
I too was somewhat surprised that the Rockets got swept. However,
don't forget that the Sonics have something like a ~12 game win streak
against the Rockets. They match up rather nicely.
Marc
|
| 10.3877 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue May 14 1996 16:35 | 15 |
| 10.3878 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Tue May 14 1996 17:15 | 7 |
| Describing Robinson as "soft" by contrasting him with The Fakeman is
hardly convincing. Avery and DelNegro are commendable overachievers
but not top echelon and isn't Sean Elliot an Arizona product?
Mail-it-in has never won anything or did Utah once get a division
regular season "pennant"? Malone is the most overrated phoney in
sports.
|
| 10.3879 | sounds like??? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Tue May 14 1996 17:23 | 2 |
| .-1
gee..samething could be said about ewing...
|
| 10.3880 | That's essentially where we started | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Tue May 14 1996 17:24 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.3881 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue May 14 1996 18:18 | 11 |
| 10.3882 | Spell check not run on this response - sorry! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Tue May 14 1996 18:37 | 14 |
| I've gotta commend the Rockets for that incredible comeback in the 4th
quarter of Game 4 Sunday. I did pick Seattle, but I like the ROcket
team a lot, and even though they got swept, they went out like
champions. Congrats to Rudy T. and the entire team.
And how 'bout Atlants staying alive vs. the Magic lasted night? I
figured for sure they'd fold like an accordian in the 4th quarter after
the incredible burst by the Magic in the first eight minutes of the
3rd. Horace Grant had an incredible game for Orlando (29 pts, 20 reb)
but Grant Long and Steve Smith made c acouple of clutch baskets in the
final minutes, and Shaq missed some FTs (of course) down the stretch.
I think he was 5-17 from the line for the night.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3883 | An even two dozen | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Tue May 14 1996 18:40 | 8 |
| Three other early entry applicants bring the total to 24:
- Terquin Mott Jr. F Coppin State
- Mark Sanford So. F Washington
- Greg Simpson Jr. G West Virginia
I know nothing about these three guys.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3884 | Unfair Attacks On Malone and Spurs | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue May 14 1996 18:53 | 14 |
| re: .3878
I'm not real sure about this critique on the mailman. Besides
Stockton and Malone, what is the talent level on that time year
in and year out? Vastly less than most final four teams I think.
Mike, I repeat my disagreement with you about the Spurs. The
early team repeatedly made it to the western finals only to lose
to a BETTER Lakers team.
Or do you contend the Spurs team was more talented? They never
had home court advantage.
Tony
|
| 10.3885 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Tue May 14 1996 19:19 | 6 |
| > I'm not real sure about this critique on the mailman. Besides
> Stockton and Malone, what is the talent level on that time year
> in and year out? Vastly less than most final four teams I think.
They've had some good talent the last 2-3 years Tony. Hornacek is
a real good ballplayer. Their talent is better than the Knicks' ! :^)
|
| 10.3886 | | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Tue May 14 1996 20:02 | 5 |
| I just heard that Magic is retiring again! Whats this, the 3rd time?
Him, his teammates and Dale musta had a spat.
Tim
|
| 10.3887 | Magic gone....again | BSS::NEUZIL | | Tue May 14 1996 20:03 | 3 |
| Magic has re-retired. Time to move on he says.
Kevin
|
| 10.3888 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue May 14 1996 21:30 | 14 |
| 10.3889 | I Think You're Right/Bucks | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Mon May 20 1996 12:17 | 15 |
| Mike,
I can tell from your response that your memory of those days
exceeds mine. Got any Geritol??!!! I think you're probably
right.
Everyone,
OK, I'm a Bucks fan. They finished 4th in the draft lottery.
Who do they get?
Iverson/Camby will be two of top 3. Who are the next highest
rated players??? Is Marbury up there?
Tony
|
| 10.3890 | bigtime pipedream | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon May 20 1996 13:03 | 20 |
|
Jeez maybe they ought to put little Penny in charge cause it's obvious Brian
Hill doesn't have a clue. I'd be ready to write them off, except I remember
a favorite team of mine blasting the dread Lakers in game 1 of the series only
to loose it all in 6 games to an old man who was taken oxygen on the bench in
that first game.
Why oh why do they continue the farce of the lottery? What's worst is they
don't even try to hide it anymore. They all sit right where they're going
to pick etc etc etc wow!!!!!!!!!
If I'm the Sixers, I take Iverson or Marbury and then tank next year to get
Duncan. They've already got DC at power foward so Camby doesn't fit as nicely
as a point guard would.
Has Camby got an agent? If I'm ML, I hope Shannon Wright last. The kid's a
bit raw but he's got skills and can run the floor unlike Mr. Montross. Unless
of course one the expansion teams would take Dee Brown and our pick for theirs.
mike
|
| 10.3891 | Wastefull #1's | CNTROL::SALMON | | Mon May 20 1996 13:38 | 4 |
| Mikey:
How many drafts can you waste on centers?
Let's see, you got montross, Earle.........what a waste!
|
| 10.3892 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Mon May 20 1996 13:49 | 4 |
|
I'd settle for Eric Dampier falling to the C's spot.
Ron
|
| 10.3893 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon May 20 1996 13:58 | 7 |
| As many as it takes till we get it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actual screw the Sixers the Celts should tank it for Duncan!!!
They'll probably take Ray Allen cause they don't need him and if you're going
to take a player with those type of skills Kerry Kittles would be a better
pick.............
|
| 10.3894 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Mon May 20 1996 14:35 | 3 |
|
I hope Rahim from Cal is there for the 'Tics and they take him.
There's no one lese in the draft except Iverson that I'd want more.
|
| 10.3895 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Mon May 20 1996 14:56 | 7 |
| Tommy is right. Abdur-Rahim is 6'10", is a big-time talent, and is only
a freshman, so maybe he can grow along with the rebuilding program (if they
ever start it).
The Celtics *have* to go big. With the exception of Dino, their front court
is full of decent *complementary* players. And I think Dino should get ready
to pack his bags if they really concentrate on rebuilding.
|
| 10.3896 | Pipe dream... | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Mon May 20 1996 15:43 | 19 |
|
Any chance for John Wallace falling to 9??
I see it...
1 Iverson
2 Camby or Marbury
3 Marbury or Camby
4 Allen
5 Rahim
6 Kobe Bryant (love to see him at 9 too..)
7 Kittles
8 Damphier
9 Wallace :-)
|
| 10.3897 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Mon May 20 1996 16:18 | 4 |
| Who would take Kobe Bryant at 6?
Actually, who would take him in the first round? That's one pick I don't
understand.
|
| 10.3898 | Kobe Bryant ain't ready they say. | STRATA::BTOWER | | Mon May 20 1996 16:54 | 4 |
| Watched the discussions about the draft during the show. Guy they were
taklking to came right out and said Kobe Bryant may not get picked at
all. Said his stock is plummeting. Couldn't understand why this kid
thinks he's ready for the NBA.
|
| 10.3899 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Mon May 20 1996 17:26 | 14 |
|
Mike,
Rather than guessing what you actually mean, could you be more
specific?
>Why oh why do they continue the farce of the lottery? What's worst is
>they don't even try to hide it anymore. They all sit right where they're
>going to pick etc etc etc wow!!!!!!!!!
The teams DID NOT end up in the same order as record indicates.
Marc
|
| 10.3900 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Mon May 20 1996 18:17 | 8 |
|
Kobe Bryant couldn't even start at a top college right now. Anyone
drafting him in the first round would need their heads examined -
especially high in the first round, where he'd demand big money.
The only way he goes in round 1 is if a team with multiple first
round picks wants to take a chance on him.
|
| 10.3901 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon May 20 1996 19:22 | 11 |
|
SO Toronto gets to pick before Vancover woopie and Toronto happened to be
first but couldn't have the pick because of the rules woopie. It's a farce
period. Weighted lottery and Orlando picks back to back first because that
overgrown kid in a man's body desperately need help and as the NBA's new
posterboy well they just had to get him help. New York gets Ewing. Lakers
and Celtics make trades that get them in the lottery and then they happen
to get prime picks as well? Ours died but where oh where would the Lakers
have been without magic and Worthy? It's fixed, all it is a show!!!!!!!
mike
|
| 10.3902 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Mon May 20 1996 19:44 | 6 |
|
Naw, if it was fixed, then Golden State would have gotten one of the
first three picks. Thus, losing their draft pick to (orlando?).
Marc
|
| 10.3903 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Mon May 20 1996 19:53 | 3 |
|
Worthy and Magic were before the lottery.
|
| 10.3904 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Tue May 21 1996 14:09 | 7 |
| The Celtics got there pick by trading Gerald Henderson to Seattle for a
number 1 and Seattle collapsing. The Seattle position as I recall
wasn't greatly enhanced by the primitive lottery at the time.
The key was Philly ahead of Boston drafting Washburn amid Red's hints
that he might be interested which was an obvious red herring. The rest
is history.
|
| 10.3905 | Early guesses at the draft are dangerous | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Tue May 21 1996 14:18 | 34 |
| Mike FIne of the Globe shows why NBA writers should stay away from
evaluating college talent by guessing where the top nine picks will go
in today's paper. He incredibly has the Celtics picking Jerome
WIlliams even though he plays the same position as Eric WIlliams and
Rick Fox, and is the exact same type of player as WIlliams (lots of
hustle, decent defense, pretty good rebounder, not much offense).
If Eric Dampier is available at #9 (and he most likely won't be), the
Celtics will snap him up without a moment's thought. If Kerry Kittles
is there and Dampier isn't, I'd wager the Celts take Kittles and not
re-sign Greg Minor.
The way the draft falls at the top depends on what Philly does with the
#1 pick, who will either be Iverson or Marbury. I think Isiah will
take Iverson even with Stoudamire, because Isiah views Iverson as
another version of himself. Here's my take on the two ways the top
of the draft could go:
PHILLY WITH IVERSON PHILLY WITH MARBURY
1. Philly - Iverson 1. Philly - Marbury
2. Toronto - Camby 2. Toronto - Iverson
3. Vanc. - Marbury 3. Vancouver - Abdur-Rahim
4. Milwaukee - Allen 4. Milwaukee - Camby
5. Minnesota - Dampier 5. Minnesota - Allen
6. Dallas Abdur-Rahim 6. Dallas - Dampier
7. LA Clippers - Wallace 7. LA Clippers - Wallace
8. NJ Nets - Kittles 8. NJ Nets - Kittles
9. Celtics - ????? 9. Celtics - ?????
All right, I admit right now I'm not sure what the Celtics will do. I
do know that taking Jerome WIlliams or ANtoine Walker makes no sense
unless they get rid of Rick Fox or Eric Williams first.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3906 | Hope So... | LUDWIG::BARBIERI | | Tue May 21 1996 18:51 | 8 |
| re: -1
Wow Nazz, I hope your 'Philly takes Marbury' prognostication
is right on!!!
(Bucks with Camby!!!).
Tony
|
| 10.3907 | Go North young man | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Tue May 21 1996 18:56 | 16 |
| >> Wow Nazz, I hope your 'Philly takes Marbury' prognostication
>> is right on!!!
>> (Bucks with Camby!!!).
Doubtful ... Stu Jackson (for Vancouver) has already been
quoted as saying "Marcus Camby won't get out of Canada" ...
meaning that if Toronto doesn't take him, Vancouver will ...
that wouldn't be a bad place for Marcus to play, he would be
playing beside "Big Country" Reeves and would never have to
defend any of the real wide bodies in the NBA ...
And, in case noone else mentioned it, Marcus has signed with
Pro Serv ... he now has an agent and CANNOT return to UMass
for his senior year ...
Vinny
|
| 10.3908 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed May 22 1996 16:56 | 9 |
|
My mistake then on the Lakers getting Worthy and Magic via the lottery. Red's
red herring was Brad Daughtery not Wasburn. Interesting one I read today was
the Celtics packaging the pick, and Dee Brown to NY for Ewing. The writer
said in talking with ML Carr that ML is planning to trade the pick if possible
for an etablished player and of course Michael Jordan's name was mentioned.
Seriously doubt though that Chicago won't pay him the 36 million over 2 years.
mike
|
| 10.3909 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Wed May 22 1996 17:01 | 9 |
|
Mike, obviously you were reading a Boston newspaper if you read the
Celtics dealing a mediocre (#9) first round pick plus a mediocre
player with a highly inflated salary (Brown) for Ewing.
Has Cleveland made their decision on the Phoenix pick yet? I could
see Ewing ending up in Dallas for Jackson if he gets moved. I
wouldn't mind seeing Jackson in Cleveland, but Dallas wants a big
man, and other than Hill, they don't have any.
|
| 10.3910 | | MYLIFE::mccarthy | Mike McCarthy SHR3-1/P32 237-2468 | Wed May 22 1996 17:07 | 5 |
| Cleveland decided not to take the pick.
I think they have the option to use it in 97 or 98.
Mike
|
| 10.3911 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed May 22 1996 17:33 | 13 |
| actually Paul it's a Worcester rag and said writer is an opinuated columnist who
loves to fantasize and create controversy. With all that said I don't find it
that far fetched. They may have been another player involved as well. My guess
is that with no championships and 3 years or so left that Ewing may have worn
out his welcome in New York. Anyways in real new Jeff Van Gunde got a 2 year
contract to coach the Knicks.
Question of the day: If Shaq was 4 inches shorter and 60 or so pounds lighter
would even be on a CBA roster? He certainly wouldn't be in the NBA. The man/
child should get every available piece of footage of Hakeem and study it this
summer.........
mike
|
| 10.3912 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Wed May 22 1996 18:22 | 6 |
|
Ewing may have worn out his welcome in NY, but he's worth a heck of a
lot more than a mediocre first round pick and an over payed mediocre
guard who can't play the point and can't defend shooting guards.
|
| 10.3913 | According to Globe: Rahim Will Go Fast | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Wed May 22 1996 18:30 | 12 |
| The Globe guess of picks had the Bucks taking the guy from
CA - Rahim (???). The comment was that they want a 2G, but
can't pass this guy up. It seems to imply this Rahim guy
is real hard to pass up and perhaps the top 4 selections are
a lock
Iverson/Camby/Marbury/Rahim.
If the Bucks do covet a 2G, perhaps this implies Respert was
a bust (???).
Tony
|
| 10.3914 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Wed May 22 1996 19:18 | 5 |
| > If the Bucks do covet a 2G, perhaps this implies Respert was
> a bust (???).
I don't think any implication is necessary. I haven't seen him, but I've
heard some commentary that he's definitely been a bust.
|
| 10.3915 | Assuming ML's that smart | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Wed May 22 1996 20:59 | 8 |
| Daugherty was no red herring - he had an excellent career. Red would
have been fine with that pick but never had any intention of taking
Washburn but pretended he did.
Philly should extort something from Toronto if they're not going to
take Camby, else make a deal. Iverson's not enough to pass on what
Camby could bring which would be fe the C's #9, Radja,Brown and even
perhaps next years pick.
|
| 10.3916 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed May 22 1996 22:48 | 7 |
| Sorry while I agree with you that Daughtery would have been a fine pick, as I
recall after they announced Philly 1st, Boston 2nd, Red turn to Pat Williams
and told him "he better take Daughtery or else he would" (he being Red) when
all the talk around town and the league was how Red loved Bias. Bias had been
to 3 or 4 Celtics' all-star camps in a row and had been the MVP at all of them.
mike
|
| 10.3917 | Boston - losersville USA and Cokecity USA | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 02:19 | 5 |
|
Red proved to be a real genius... tricking Pat Williams into dealing
the all-star Duagherty pick to Cleveland so he could draft the coke
happy Len Bias. A real smart cookie there... he probably also
recommended drafting Mr Snort (Reggie) also.
|
| 10.3918 | | NQOS01::nqsrv107.nqo.dec.com::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Thu May 23 1996 04:21 | 1 |
| yabbut, he's got lotsa rings, something never seen with the cavs name on it.
|
| 10.3919 | Let's get an athlete | FABSIX::R_LUCHT | No sleep till....... | Thu May 23 1996 06:45 | 7 |
| Nobody's mentioning Dontae Jones, from what I saw of this kid he can leap over
tall buildings, and he had pretty good touch too. He almost took Miss. State all
the way. I think he's going to be a big time player, maybe not right away, but
in time he'll develop. I say take a chance not pick the safe stiff like they
have for the last ??? years.
Rich..........
|
| 10.3920 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Thu May 23 1996 12:44 | 7 |
| re .3917,
Looks like its going to be a typical day in Sports. Can we just
make a new topic, call the "Slam Groaner note"?
Ron
|
| 10.3921 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu May 23 1996 12:54 | 10 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3917 by ROCK::GRONOWSKI >>>
> Red proved to be a real genius... tricking Pat Williams into dealing
> the all-star Duagherty pick to Cleveland so he could draft the coke
> happy Len Bias. A real smart cookie there... he probably also
> recommended drafting Mr Snort (Reggie) also.
Didn't the Len Bias pick come from Seattle in exchange for Gerald Henderson?
George
|
| 10.3922 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Thu May 23 1996 13:36 | 6 |
| I thought that the Celtics had the third pick and Daugherty was an
automatic at #1 and the key was having Bias at #3. It was obvious that
the Celtics would be taking Bias if for no other reason than he was a
great player.
George you're right, it was mentioned earlier
|
| 10.3923 | Reggie doesn't deserve to be mocked in here | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Thu May 23 1996 14:25 | 7 |
| Celtics had the #2 pick from Seattle in the trade for Henderson.
I deeply resent your calling Reggie Lewis Mr. Snort. If you have some
proof from somewhere that this is true, then show us. Otherwise, show
some respect for the deceased.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3924 | some real genii | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 23 1996 14:34 | 21 |
| Now for some lighter stuff...
Here's how the the experts are doing in the playoffs:
Round1 Round2 East West Final Games
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TNPUBS::NAZZARO 5 2 CHIC SEAT SEAT 4-2
ROCK::HUBER 4 0 CLEV S.A. CLEV ---
HBAHBA::HAAS 5 2 CHIC HOUS CHIC 4-1
AKOCOA::BREEN 7 3 CHIC LALA CHIC 4-2
ROCK::GRONOWSKI 6 4 CHIC SEAT CHIC ---
XTATIC::CHILDS 7 2 CHIC HOUS CHIC ---
SHARE::DERRY 6 3 CHIC SEAT CHIC 4-1
AD::HEATH 7 2 CHIC HOUS CHIC 4-3
PHXSS1::HEISER 6 2 ORLA HOUS HOUS 4-2
BIS1::ROOSEN 6 3 CHIC HOUS CHIC 4-2
ODIXIE::ZOGRAN 7 3 CHIC S.A. CHIC 4-1
WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M 7 3 CHIC SEAT CHIC 4-0
TPSYS::BROOKS 4 2 CHIC S.A. CHIC 4-0
TTom
|
| 10.3925 | What a moron! | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu May 23 1996 15:32 | 10 |
| RE: 3923
Mr. Nazzaro, I too was somewhat shocked to read the note
previous to yours until I looked at the author. Total lack of class!
John
|
| 10.3926 | If ya don't like it here, why don't you go back home? | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu May 23 1996 15:41 | 8 |
| Sorry, my previous note was a responce to note 10.3917.
I don't want to offend anyone that doesn't deserve it!
John
|
| 10.3927 | I'm glad I'm sitting here by myself! | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu May 23 1996 16:12 | 15 |
| I'm mostly a read only noter, and I'm also the type of person that
can take a lot of sh*t. But that note (10.3917) really has me p*ssed
off! I can't beleive anyone in this notes file would actually enter a
note slandering someone who is deceased!
This guy was a husband, father, and someone's son. You've got some very
big b*lls pal. I can understand your notes defending Albert Belle,
the city of Cleveland, and the state of Ohio (actually I go to next
unseen), but this note is totally unacceptable to me. I'm Please do not
respond with an apology to 10.3917. I would not expect, or accept one!
John
|
| 10.3928 | All NBA stuff | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 23 1996 16:29 | 38 |
| All-NBA
Firsted team:
Michael Jordan 113 (unanimous)
Scottie Pippen 91
Penny Hardaway 90
Karl Malone 89
David Robinson 65
Seconded: Thirded:
Shawn Kemp Charles Barkley,
Gary Payton Juwan Howard
Grant Hill Shaquille O'Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon Mitch Richmond
John Stockton Reggiec Miller
1995-96 NBA awards
Most Valuable Player
Michael Jordan, Chicago Bulls
Rookie of the Year
Damon Stoudamire, Toronto Raptors
Sixth Man of the Year
Tony Kukoc, Chicago Bulls
Coach of the Year
Phil Jackson, Chicago Bulls
Defensive Player of the Year
Gary Payton, Seattle SuperSonics
All-defensive team
Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Gary Payton, David Robinson, Dennis
Rodman.
Most Improved Player
Gheorghe Muresan, Washington Bullets
|
| 10.3929 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 16:47 | 4 |
|
Reggie Lewis hit the snow pal, whether you want to believe it or not.
It has nothing to do with whether he was a husband, father or son.
|
| 10.3930 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu May 23 1996 17:09 | 10 |
| What evidence have you seen to back that up?
We seem to have Nazz who knew him personally who never saw him do drugs,
no medical evidence or any other credible evidence has come to light showing
that he did drugs, and is wife doesn't seem to be afraid of any drug evidence
showing up during discovery for her civil trial.
You got something else? If so, let's have a look.
George
|
| 10.3931 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 17:13 | 2 |
|
I'm using the Glenn Method, I read it in the newspaper...
|
| 10.3932 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu May 23 1996 17:23 | 9 |
| Was this the case where some reporter from the Wall Street Journal's left the
floor of the stock exchange with big ideas about branching out into Inquirer
type sports stories, got blinded by the sun, developed brain damage and wrote
some nonsense about Reggie based on some low life who later changed his story?
Not high on the credibility meter. Better come up with something with a bit
more teeth.
George
|
| 10.3933 | SCREW! | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu May 23 1996 17:23 | 11 |
| You are a classless idiot. PERIOD!
Anyone who makes a statement like that is gutless, in my book.
Maybe you should write for the globe.
I'm not gonna waste my time getting it on with you like some others
would in here.
I told you before, I'm really pissed at your comments.....I had to get
out of here at lunch time, something I very rarely do.
|
| 10.3934 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Thu May 23 1996 17:44 | 13 |
|
Without arguing the merits of the statement, I wonder why you
say:
> Anyone who makes a statement like that is gutless, in my book.
Paul wrote something, publically, that he undoubtedly knew would
get people upset at him. If he believes it to be true, then IMHO
doing so takes either bravery or stupidity, and Paul isn't stupid.
If he's just saying it to provoke a reaction, then it still requires
some amount of bravery.
Joe
|
| 10.3935 | Uselly its me ranting and raving... I cant take it... | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Thu May 23 1996 17:54 | 18 |
| Many reporters/papers/news caster's hinted around and some may have
even stated that they received information that reggie had in fact
done coke (Either while pro or in college). Some folks who like the
celtics and reggie will chose to do the right thing and last I checked
that would be to presume innocents until proven guilty and others,
the anit-celtic/reggie folks will assume he was guilty. Maybe becuase
he was successful or maybe to just get a rise out of everyone in here.
Both are entitled as this is a notesfile, Im constantly battleing folks
who would beleive that MJ does drugs, gambles and all but pulled the
trigger on the gun that killed his father... for the most part I like
to think these poeple do this to just try and get me going :-).....
-*, relax, no one in here has PROOF that he did drugs (That I know of)
but I don't beleive anyone has any absolute proof that he didn't either
(Unless you got a God-Hotline)....
MairB
|
| 10.3936 | | SUBPAC::SKALSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 18:10 | 12 |
|
One must consider the source of the comment, not at all
unexpected however. He is after all the bitterest man
on the planet. Chowdah anyone?
Shark
|
| 10.3937 | Paul has very distinquished company | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Thu May 23 1996 18:24 | 16 |
| George,
1. The wsj writer mainly simply plagiarized from the Globe
2. On the contrary he wears quite the cloak of respectability what
with U of Va and even the WSJ itself, though why that rag is
considered respectable is beyond me.
3. The publication and moreso the reception of the article should
awaken folks to the power of Nazism - I say that because I
can't think of any other answer. As blatantly rascist as
1920s German anti-semitism.
Don't single out Groaner - Weei after doing a 24 hour vigil at his
deathbed jumped off the Reggie bandwagon at the first innuendoes.
Write to the station John, to Will McDonough of the Globe, to the
Herald they haven't particularly masked their attitude.
|
| 10.3938 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Thu May 23 1996 18:34 | 6 |
|
Bottom line is everyone in Sports has there own opinion. Take it
at that. I mean I get mad when someone says Larry Bird Sucked. Paul as
well as Mahmoud,Marge,and whoever else has there opinions. Take it with
a grain of salt and move on.
|
| 10.3939 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 18:39 | 6 |
|
re: .3933
Uh oh... i'm ascared. Please don't come down to my office and beat me
up.
|
| 10.3940 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu May 23 1996 18:40 | 11 |
| No respectable journalist implies that someone has committed a felony on
such thin evidence. The suggestion that someone who was once considered
respectable has done so only raises that possibility in my mind that they are
cashing in that respectability for the big bucks of tabloid journalism.
On the other hand, when you consider the economic benefits to Inquirer type
reporting for some evidence on which they can hang their hat and the fact that
it is not forth coming it appears more and more unlikely that he was involved
with drugs in any substantial way.
George
|
| 10.3941 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 18:43 | 8 |
|
Some folks who hate Belle and the Indians will chose to do the wrong
thing and proclaim guilt even after the court decided that Belle was
not guilty in the Halloween incident.
As far as Jordan goes, who cares if he gambles. If his gambling
habits impact his play on the court or leads to fixing games, then
it should be an issue... and if not, so what.
|
| 10.3942 | I'm guilty, I guess | CNTROL::SALMON | | Thu May 23 1996 18:46 | 11 |
| I wouldn't do that, Paul...after all, you are a very BRAVE man.
You got me, just as you've gotten so many of us in here!
I say to myself every day "why do these people let him get to them"!
Now I know...oh well,
JS
|
| 10.3943 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu May 23 1996 19:03 | 8 |
|
If you must know, I entered the Reggie note to prove a point...
that Boston fans are so biased and hypocritical that someone
like Lewis is presumed innocent until proven guilty (as he
should be), while someone like Belle is presumed guilty
even when he's found not guilty in a court of law - which
he was in both the Halloween incident and the throwing the
ball at the drunk in the stands incident.
|
| 10.3944 | | THEMAX::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Thu May 23 1996 21:08 | 8 |
| Paul calling boston fans biased? Hum....
I know I'm biased towards my colorado teams, but I also try to keep
an open mind and not defend certain players/managment when they do
wrong or play bad, etc.. Except for of course Mr Teef ;-)))))
Tim
|
| 10.3945 | | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Fri May 24 1996 00:35 | 14 |
|
> If you must know, I entered the Reggie note to prove a point...
> that Boston fans are so biased and hypocritical that someone
> like Lewis is presumed innocent until proven guilty (as he
> should be), while someone like Belle is presumed guilty
> even when he's found not guilty in a court of law
And you failed miserably... Belle was found guilty guilty GUILTY
of reckless operation of a motor vehicle in the Halloween incident.
Which was never the point (which was rather that Belle is a jerk)
but you managed to step in it nonetheless.
glenn
|
| 10.3946 | | CHEFS::7A1_GRN | Go GB/USA/Ken/NZ/Oz Olympic team | Fri May 24 1996 08:51 | 7 |
| To label/mock the deceased, who is unable to defend himself, is one of the
most cowardly acts a man can take.
Give it a miss, I don't want to read it.
CHARLEY
|
| 10.3947 | Simple Solution: Leagalize Drugs NOW!!!! | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Fri May 24 1996 10:49 | 16 |
|
it just makes to much sense and would rob the rob-barrons who back the
politicos of a big piece of their wealth. Cut down drastically on crime.
I'm trying hard to find a negative here.....
enough moralizing for now. Anybody got a clue for the Magic? Brian Hill
will buy them all I think. Let see Penny gets 38 and they loose. Superboy
gets 36 with 16 boards and they loose and now they loose the only guy with
any heart on team Ho Grant. Well Penny might have heart too but for certain
Scott, Anderson and Superboy don't have any. That'd be my clue Brian. Get
these boys a heart transplant cause they can't just get by on their physical
gifts. Make they watch some tapes of guys like MJ, Rodman, Bird, Magic and of
course the man with the biggest heart of all BIG BILL RUSSELL. Maybe it'll
sink in. Maybe then they'll realize what it takes to be a Champion.........
mike
|
| 10.3948 | Bulls are only 1/2 way there | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Fri May 24 1996 12:02 | 39 |
| Hey all the bulls have done was win there 2 home games (As they
should). The real series is this weekend, if Orlando holds serve
its a whole new ballgame... Im hoping its over in 4 so the Bulls
can get some rest before playing the REAL series vs Seattle.
I will say one thing, at this point the Magic do not deserve to be
mentioned in the same sentence with Chicago... They have no heart
or desire, the rely on Hardaway and Shaq(Shaq rely's on intimadating
his man and getting 150minimum breaks per game from the refs). The
Free Throw % of this team is pathetic and is where ALL there attention
should be focused (That and finding someone other then Hardaway that
can handle the ball). Have they put all the eggs in too few baskets.
With the $$ That shaq/Penny/Ho make can they afford anyone else ???
This team could hit a downswing real quick and 3-5 years people will
put them in the catagory of great players without a ring (Well not Ho).
The gate's will be open next year for someone in the east to make a run
for a ring... NY just seems to be done, they HAVE to land a free agent
guard or they go NOWhere next year... Orlando, obviously if shaq goes
(I doubt that will happen) there done... CHicago, this is it, they
managed to put together a great team for 1 more run but if they sign
Michael they won't sign Rodman and I think they will come close but no
cigars without rodman....
I was actually disapointed that Cleveland chose NOT to use Phoenix's
pick this year, Im sure it was $$$. IF they want to land a Free Agent
and then try to draft/sign 3 picks in the top 20 they could have a cash
flow problem....
This will be a very intresting free agency year, first the rumors,
we'll get all kinds of intresting rumors around Michael, Shaq, Dikembe
and Miller... Out of them I have a feeling only Reggie will move to
another team... But it will be fun and keep it intresting during the
off season :-)
See you all on tuesday, who knows maybe we'll have a double sweep
this weekend :-)
MairB
|
| 10.3949 | Miserable failure? No, successful failure! | BSS::NEUZIL | | Fri May 24 1996 13:47 | 16 |
|
> And you failed miserably... Belle was found guilty guilty GUILTY
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of reckless operation of a motor vehicle in the Halloween incident.
> Which was never the point (which was rather that Belle is a jerk)
> but you managed to step in it nonetheless.
>
> glenn
Glenn,
I disagree. I think it was a very successful failure.
Kevin
|
| 10.3950 | Bulls sweep | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 24 1996 13:47 | 7 |
| Utah will win one, maybe two. No way no sweep. Seattle wins series
anyway.
The Bulls might lose game 3. I don't see it happening but if'n they win
game 3 there's no way the Magic win game 4.
TTom
|
| 10.3951 | want some cheese with that whine??? | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri May 24 1996 14:28 | 13 |
| reply to mairb
Its kind of ironic that a Bulls fan would whine about the calls that
Shaq gets as opposed to the calls that both Jordan and Pippen get.
Late in game two Rodman did everything but undress Shaq and they
called a fould on Shaq. Now it really wouldn't have made a difference
cuz everyone knows that "daddy" cain't shoot free throws.....
Not really a Magic fan but it looks to me that the only "huevos" on
this team belong to mister Shaw.
Wonder how good Jackson would be without Jordan??? Hill would not
be in the NBA without Penny or Shaqfu...
|
| 10.3952 | not too bad | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 24 1996 14:44 | 10 |
| > Wonder how good Jackson would be without Jordan???
We had about a year and a half of that and Jackson kept the Bulls
competitive in spite of Scottie Pippen.
Obviously, if'n you root for Jordan you forfeit the right to whine about
any calls that anyone else is getting or not getting. The ref and the
league gives most to the guy that needs it the leasted.
TTom
|
| 10.3953 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 24 1996 16:04 | 8 |
|
Jackson kept the Bulls "competitive" but not serious contenders.
The thing Michael brings and inspires amongst his teammates is
playoff intensity. The difference between the Bulls and the Magic
in that regard is like night and day. At crucial points in the 2nd
game the Bulls had the fire in the belly and the Magic were looking
around for someone to step up. If they don't match Chicago's fire
they'll be home after just the minimum.
|
| 10.3954 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri May 24 1996 16:25 | 9 |
|
I think you will see Brian Hill or Orlando get fired if Orlando
doesn't win at least 2 games against Chicago. Chicago played very
good defense in the 2nd half of game 2, which looked great because
Orlando didn't have a clue on how to break Chicago's press. If your
having a problem getting Penny the ball, then run a double screen
to get him open.
Ron
|
| 10.3955 | pretty much put that out | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 24 1996 16:27 | 6 |
| > ... If they don't match Chicago's fire
> they'll be home after just the minimum.
Like I said, sweep. This aint gonna happen.
TTom
|
| 10.3956 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Fri May 24 1996 17:09 | 5 |
|
re: .3945
I guess I'd take these comments more seriously if it weren't for your
Napoleonic complex.
|
| 10.3957 | | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Fri May 24 1996 17:12 | 9 |
|
> I guess I'd take these comments more seriously if it weren't for your
> Napoleonic complex.
You've once again confused me with George Brooks... ;-)
glenn
|
| 10.3958 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Fri May 24 1996 17:16 | 3 |
|
The only thing that makes you taller than Brooks is those black 5"
pumps.
|
| 10.3959 | Chi and Sea will sweep; Pitino to Nets? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Fri May 24 1996 17:29 | 10 |
| I look for sweeps in both series this weekend. Finals probably won't
start until the following weekend. I know the NBA planned to start the
Finals on June 5 or so, but I can't believe they'll wait 10 days if
both teams sweep. But TV might say otherwise.
In other news, the Nets came back hard at Pitino. Offered control of
player personnel decisions, head coach, and a chunk of the team.
Pitino says he'll decide when he comes back from vacation on June 3.
NAZZ
|
| 10.3960 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Fri May 24 1996 17:32 | 5 |
| I was reading an article about Shaq's foul shooting woes this morning. In the
article they said he practices from 30 to 45 minutes after every practice.
Hard to believe he doesn't improve with that kind of practice.
mike
|
| 10.3961 | Pitino story | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 24 1996 17:53 | 77 |
| [www.usatoday.com]
PITINO MULLING NETS' COACHING JOB
LEXINGTON, Ky. - Kentucky coach Rick Pitino said Friday he is
considering an offer to be coach, general manager and part owner of
the New Jersey Nets.
Pitino, who guided Kentucky to its sixth national championship last
month, said conversations with his agent, Rick Avare, and the Nets
have heated up in the last few days.
''They said we'd like to see you come home and build a model of
excellence,'' said Pitino, a New York native who coached the Knicks
for two seasons from 1987-89.
Pitino, 43, said he will be discussing the offer with Nets' officials
during the next 24 hours. He said he would not announce his decision
until after he returns from a week-long trip to Ireland that begins
Sunday.
Pitino, who last month turned down a five-year, $20 million offer to
coach the Nets, said he was addressing the subject because of a report
in Friday's New York Daily News.
''This is not a coaching change,'' Pitino said. ''This is a career
move. I've been here seven years, six years longer than many of you
thought.''
Pitino has compiled a 184-45 record in seven seasons at Kentucky. He
has taken five Kentucky teams to the NCAA tournament, guiding the
Wildcats to one national championship, two Final Fours, two final
eight finishes and one final 16.
Pitino said that a formal offer has been made by the Nets, but he did
not disclose the terms.
''It's more important that I have the ability to put the whole show
together, top to bottom,'' he said. ''That program has to be rebuilt
from top to bottom.''
He said ''money will not come into the equation. I'm more than well
compensated here at Kentucky.''
Pitino said that he was impressed with the recent restructuring of the
Nets under Henry Taub, who is chairman of the team's board.
Asked what would make him turn down the offer, Pitino said, ''Probably
my love of Kentucky.''
Pitino also said that he would want to talk to his Kentucky players
before making a decision.
''I would want them to understand my feelings and why I would leave,''
he said. ''They're all very important to me.''
Larry Ivy, Kentucky's senior associate athletics director, said he
thinks that consideration may keep Pitino in Lexington.
''Our position is that once he evaluates the offer and talks to his
players, that he will come to the conclusion that Kentucky is his home
and that's where he'll be staying,'' Ivy said.
While Pitino called the Nets' latest offer intriguing, he said, ''I've
got to temper my excitement because I love this place dearly.''
He called Kentucky the best job in basketball, college or pro.
''Don't speculate about new coaches (at Kentucky),'' he said. ''Don't
throw me out the door yet.''
Last month, Pitino said ''there would be no way I'd leave Kentucky.''
''I have no interest in any situation right now,'' he said at the
time. ''It wouldn't matter what opened up. I would not leave Kentucky
at this point in my life.''
|
| 10.3962 | | SUBPAC::WHITEHAIR | Central Division Champs=Indians | Fri May 24 1996 17:56 | 6 |
|
New York is washed up.......who cares anyway???
W A H O O O O O O O ! ! ! !
|
| 10.3963 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri May 24 1996 18:28 | 13 |
|
The question is what is Shaq doing for those 30-45 minutes?
When all you do is throw up shotputs, what can he expect? Orlando
should create a 3pt type line at 15 ft, on whatever basketball court
Shaq practices on during the offseason. Then tell him he is fined
10K for everytime they catch him taking a shot inside 15ft. If Shaq
developed a 15 ft jump shot, his free throw shooting would improve.
He has to learn to put some arc on the ball, with a little rotation.
Practicing 15 ft jump shots, instead of inside moves should help
him get a feel for shooting free throws. He might even try imitating
the Robert Parish rainbow.
Ron
|
| 10.3964 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Fri May 24 1996 18:34 | 21 |
| > If your
> having a problem getting Penny the ball, then run a double screen
> to get him open.
IMO, they didn't even try to get him the ball. Sure, Pippen is a very
good defender, but nobody can be denied the ball in the NBA...and
definitely not Hardaway. Brian Hill is a MORON. He had no credentials
when he became coach, and being embarrassed THREE YEARS IN A ROW will
emphatically prove his inability to coach at this level.
I will be very happy to see Orlando go down with a wimper. Maybe we can
get an immediate-reaction interview with Pat Williams (GM ?) with questions
such as: "what's wrong with a team that gets the top pick two years in
a row ?", and "will they be able to re-sign O'Neal ?", and if not, "will
Jon 'f*&^*ng' Koncak be able to keep Orlando a title contender ?".
BTW, re: Jordan and Pippen getting the calls, it was no more evident
than at the end of Game2 when Pippen wasn't called for traveling while
rolling on the floor with the ball, and getting fouled on a rebound
when it appeared he didn't even get touched.
|
| 10.3965 | Shaq At Line/Draft Prognosticating - The Rahim Factor | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun May 26 1996 13:48 | 20 |
| I read that Shaq hits something like 80-85% of those free
throws during practise.
Conclusion: Its a mental thing. Talk all you want about
technique, but what needs adjusting is his mind.
Today's Globe says Toronto may take Rahim. This scenario
would then look like...
Poss. 1 Poss. 2
Philly Iverson Marbury
Toronto Rahim Rahim
Vancouver Camby Camby or Iverson
***Bucks*** Marbury? Camby or Iverson
My main question is Poss. 2. Is there any chance Vancouver
prefers Iverson to Marbury???
Tony
|
| 10.3966 | Correction To -1 | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun May 26 1996 13:49 | 1 |
| I meant to say Iverson to Camby!
|
| 10.3967 | sweep and 3-1 | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 14:33 | 22 |
| Did someone say sweep!~
Magic bows out. Shaq din't have the heart and the rest of Orlando this
side of Penny just stood around. Even the shoving match with Rodman was
half hearted.
Shaq saved his real stuff for after the game when he walked off without
as much as a howdy do to any of the Bulls. Then he got real excited and
tore up some stuff in the locker room. Too little, too late. For the
third straight year, the Magic get swept in the playoffs to end their
season. Shaq is prolly headed outta town with the Lakers being most
prominently mentioned.
On the left coast, the Sonics stayed alive despite some serious home
cooking that kept Kemp on the bench. But like the series, this is Gary
Peyton's series as he continued to dominate Stockton. Actually, this game
may have turned on a realization that Utah has approximately no chance
aginst the Bulls while Seattle might at least win a game or 2.
Ho hum, Jordan and the Bulls continue their march...
TTom
|
| 10.3968 | Pitino gone? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 16:11 | 18 |
| And of course, the other story in the NBA over the weekend is Rick
Pitino's now famous offer from the New Jersey. It's supposed to include
about 20 million for five years, perks to make the package closer to 30
mil and some ownership in the Nets, rumored to be in the 5%-10% range.
Not only does everyone assume that he's gone, they've already started
rumors on his replacement. The first name on the list is none other than
UMass' own, John Calipari.
Ironically, Pitino is in Europe playing golf with a bunch of Wildcat
Boosters in Ireland. No doubt, they might discuss some of this.
Pitino is claiming that he won't make a decision until he talks with his
players going so far as to say that if'n they want him back he'll stay.
Yeah, right.
TTom
|
| 10.3969 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Tue May 28 1996 16:37 | 4 |
| you got that right TTom. Like the kids would tell him to stay. Of course they'll
tell him to take the cash. I'd love to hear the counter offers from the boosters.
mike
|
| 10.3970 | Best of both worlds... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Tue May 28 1996 16:42 | 10 |
|
> Pitino is claiming that he won't make a decision until he talks with his
> players going so far as to say that if'n they want him back he'll stay.
Maybe he'll do what he did to Providence, where he makes a big public
display of "coming back for the kids", then slips out of town a month
later anyway...
glenn
|
| 10.3971 | as I sees it | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 17:05 | 26 |
| Wail, I for one, hopes ol' Rick stays in Lexington.
Here's some of the factors and how they stack up
Item @Kentucky @New Jersey
----------------------------------------------------------------
Job At the top of a great At the bottom of a so-so
sport, college hoops sport, NBA
Location In the middle of bluegrass In the middle of toxic
horse farms waste sites
Opportunity A chance to teach kids as A bunch of spoiled brats
they become men who never grew up
Challenge Keeping the talent and Avoiding traffic, pollution
championships coming and mass mayhem
Prognosis Talent and championships Nets stay near the bottom
keep on coming of the NBA
Money As much as he needs More money than he needs
Prediction: just like terds, Pitino rolls downhill to New Jersey.
TTom
|
| 10.3972 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue May 28 1996 17:55 | 10 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3971 by HBAHBA::HAAS "more madness, less horror" >>>
>Opportunity A chance to teach kids as A bunch of spoiled brats
> they become men who never grew up
Considering that the spoiled brats of the NBA who never grew up consist of
those same kids who went to college, I guess they are not doing such a hot job
of teaching those kids to become men.
George
|
| 10.3973 | guess again | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 18:14 | 16 |
| > Considering that the spoiled brats of the NBA who never grew up consist of
>those same kids who went to college, I guess they are not doing such a hot job
>of teaching those kids to become men.
And your guess is totally unsupported by anything here.
Firsted of all, most college hoops players do not make it into NBA. So
you're not addressing the vast majority of 'em who go on with their life
after hoops is over. Tell me how the rest are doing and I may change my
opinion of your opinion.
Seconded, you need to look closer at the brats and see if'n there's a
pattern or two, like leaving early, playing for Syracuse and things like
that.
TTom
|
| 10.3974 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue May 28 1996 18:17 | 14 |
|
>> Considering that the spoiled brats of the NBA who never grew up
>> consist of those same kids who went to college, I guess they are
>> not doing such a hot job of teaching those kids to become men.
Who's "they"? I thought TTom was talking about Pitino. Being the
big basketball fan that you are, George, I'm sure you know that
Pitino got a big monkey off his back last year by winning the
national championship and he did it by getting a bunch of super-
stars to play together as a team. That'll be a lot harder to do
as a pro coach which Rick ought to know from his experience with
the Knicks (another situation, I'm sure you're quite familar
with). He's got the best job in the best sport and a whole pile
of more money won't offset what he'll be giving up.
|
| 10.3975 | Amen!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 18:31 | 9 |
| > ... He's got the best job in the best sport and a whole pile
> of more money won't offset what he'll be giving up.
Couldn't agree with you more, Tommy.
He's got the factory cranking 'em out. He's broken the ring thing. He's
got nothing but Kentucky Wildcat Blue skies ahead.
TTom
|
| 10.3976 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue May 28 1996 18:32 | 14 |
| Tommy, somehow you've managed to changed the subject and get all excited
about something I never said again. No surprise there I guess.
What we were talking about was not his winning, but the suggestion that in
college he would have the opportunity to turn boys into men but in the NBA he'd
be stuck with "brats who never grew up".
I was just pointing out how odd it is that the NBA "brats who never grew up"
all come from those programs where college coaches "turn boys into men".
I guess the suggestion is that if you are really good at tossing a ball into
a hoop those lessons on manhood somehow escape you. I find that odd.
George
|
| 10.3977 | 'Cept at Kentucky, where they pay well... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Tue May 28 1996 18:35 | 9 |
|
> I guess the suggestion is that if you are really good at tossing a ball into
> a hoop those lessons on manhood somehow escape you. I find that odd.
Money corrupts. Where's the contradiction?
glenn
|
| 10.3978 | could be | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 18:46 | 20 |
| > I guess the suggestion is that if you are really good at tossing a ball into
>a hoop those lessons on manhood somehow escape you. I find that odd.
This is actually phrased in such a way as to reflect some content that
can actually be addressed.
I think that the behavior in the NBA goes a long way to support this
guess. A lot of the better up and coming players have bad attitudes.
There are notable exceptions, Grant Hill being a prominent one.
This points to both the discrepancy between the various programs and
their coaches as well as how long they stayed to receive any benefit of
the "boys to men" coaching.
Duke, it would appear, is better at turning out men than some other
programs, especially the ones like Grant Hill who stayed for the degree.
Of course, Hill is exceptional.
TTom
|
| 10.3979 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue May 28 1996 19:16 | 18 |
|
>> I was just pointing out how odd it is that the NBA "brats who
>> never grew up" all come from those programs where college coaches
>> "turn boys into men".
They *all* come from all over the place. They come from factory
programs where basketball is all they need know and all they'll
ever learn and they come from the Dukes of the college world
where you have to be a rounded individual. They don't *all* come
from any one place.
>> I guess the suggestion is that if you are really good at tossing
>> a ball into a hoop those lessons on manhood somehow escape you.
You guess wrong. The suggestion is that if you're a star college
basketball player someone had better give you a pair of gravity
boots so you don't walk around with your head in the clouds.
|
| 10.3980 | watch what you wish fer | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue May 28 1996 19:21 | 4 |
| You may wanna watch that gravity thing cause sometimes when their haids
aint in the clouds they're closer to the ground in a deep and dark place.
TTom
|
| 10.3981 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue May 28 1996 20:01 | 11 |
| Exactly what is it that the NBA players are not doing that they are suppose
to do?
Seems that when I watch the Bulls roll over these other teams they do their
share of complaining to the refs but basically they seem to be working hard and
trying to win. Even guys like Rodman play defense, pass the ball to an open guy
instead of taking a bad shot. Same with the teams in the West.
Where is all this selfish or childish behavior that I keep hearing about?
George
|
| 10.3982 | Fun Read! | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Tue May 28 1996 20:10 | 10 |
| re: .3971
That was a fun reply to read! Especially the contrast on locations!
Good stuff.
He'd be INSANE to leave Kentucky. The only motivation to leave
is to think he can single-handedly transform the Nets from pathetic
to a champion.
Tony
|
| 10.3983 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Tue May 28 1996 20:12 | 13 |
| > Where is all this selfish or childish behavior that I keep hearing about?
Which of the following do you think qualify?
1) Nick Van Exel ramming a referee because he didn't like a call.
2) Dennis Rodman head-butting a referee.
3) Anthony Bowie calling a timeout with a couple of seconds left on the clock
when his team is way ahead so they can set up for a basket that will get
him a "triple-double".
4) Bowie's teammates announcing that they support his move.
|
| 10.3984 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue May 28 1996 20:41 | 6 |
| But you see that in all sports to some extent. Most sports have a bench
clearing incident somewhere in the league every few weeks but still it's a
small fraction of the games where things like this thing happen. The way you
talk you'd think this kind of stuff happened 10 times a game.
George
|
| 10.3985 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue May 28 1996 20:45 | 9 |
|
Then there's...
Dennis Rodman taking off his shoes and laying down courtside
while the game is still in progress.
Derrick Coleman exhibiting enough childish behavior to become
the poster boy for childish beavhior in the NBA by earning him-
self a SI cover with "Waahhhhh" coming out of his mouth.
|
| 10.3986 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue May 28 1996 21:06 | 18 |
| RE <<< Note 10.3985 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Dennis Rodman taking off his shoes and laying down courtside
> while the game is still in progress.
OH my GOD!!!! Cover the children's eyes. One grown man on the floor with no
shoes while the rest of the guys are playing a basketball game? How can this
happen in what's suppose to be a civilized country? What next, father rape'en,
mother stab'en? OH, MY, GOD!!!!
And the thing that really takes the cake is when you realize that what these
guys are doing, counting the number of times someone throws a ball through a
hoop, is so dam important. It's not like this was something frivolous like
what goes on in a hospital emergency room, the U.S. Senate or something.
A grown man taking off his shoes while playing a game. What next!?!?!?!?
George
|
| 10.3987 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue May 28 1996 21:20 | 10 |
|
Can the hysterics, George. I realize you're reverting to
your standard method of diverting an argument from something
you know next to nothing about in this case basketball to
one of your standard boring arguments in this case the im-
portance of what players are doing on the playing field.
No one said that what Van Exel or Rodman is doing is the
equivalent of pornography or murder or rape just that it's
childish. Remeber that word "childish"? Isn't that what we
were discussing?
|
| 10.3988 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue May 28 1996 21:22 | 7 |
|
>> Even guys like Rodman play defense, pass the ball to an open guy
>> instead of taking a bad shot.
BTW - George, that and rebounding are 99 and 44/100ths of what
Denis Rodman does. But being the basketball expert that
you are - you knew that.
|
| 10.3989 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Tue May 28 1996 21:32 | 7 |
| Let's not go glorifing DUKE here. Grant Hill is the exception not the rule and
he's certainly balanced off by one Christian Lattner.......Each program is going
to have it's good apples and rotten apples just like any pro team. If he really
wants to challenge himself he takes the Jersey job, If he wants to stay cozy and
comfy he stays..........
mike
|
| 10.3990 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Tue May 28 1996 22:26 | 11 |
|
Hmm, bench clearing brawls, headbutting, etc...I've played in literally
thousands of basketball/baseball/soccer/football... games and have
NEVER seen this kind of behavior. Using one sports problems to justify
another sports problems is just plain silly.
The percentage of pro-sports players that are childish appear to be
significantly higher than the rest of the world.
Marc
|
| 10.3991 | money opens mouths | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Wed May 29 1996 02:01 | 10 |
| Of course pro-athletes are more childish. Its called $$$!! I don't
recall to many pro's being babies before the big million $ mark was
broken. Now you got guys making anywhere from $1mil-$18mil/yr which
just makes them want more, thus the tantrums.
I realize not all million dollar athletes are babies, but a big chunk
of them are. There are some that actually have class and don't act
rich and cocky.
Tim
|
| 10.3992 | Millions$$$$$$$$$$$$ | FABSIX::R_LUCHT | No sleep till....... | Wed May 29 1996 03:45 | 13 |
| Think about it realistically, if you were in your 20's early 30's, and
had just signed a 30 million dollar contract to play a game, and had millions of
people telling you that you are the greatest, 90% percent of you would act the
same way. I know I would probably be a cocky son of a b*tch, and most of you who
say you'd act like you do now are lying to yourselves. These guys have'nt lived
a normal life since jr. high, so how can they be expected to act like us?
Also, being in the limelight makes these guys look ten time worse than
they probably are. If the lives of the people in this notes file were under the
microscope, I'm sure there are things we all wish we had'nt done. Everyone
should stop taking these players shortcomings so personally. They're only people
and it's only a game.
Rich............
|
| 10.3993 | | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Wed May 29 1996 05:14 | 12 |
| Its only a game that we the fans pay more and more to see and of
course more for memoribilia (sp?). If someone is making this kinda of
$$$, they shouldn't act bad in the public spotlight and play their best
ALL the time. This goes for owners too, ie, does the recent baseball
strike still leave a bad taste in the mouth? YES!
When I go to a football or baseball game, I expect to get my monies
worth. I work hard for what little money I make and when I have to
drop $100 for the family to go see a game, I don't expect to tantrums
and snob attitudes.
Tim
|
| 10.3994 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Wed May 29 1996 12:17 | 14 |
| Ok so let's see:
- Grown men playing a children's game is not childish.
- 20,000 to 30,000 fans going to see grown men play a children's game is
not childish
- A good portion of those fans thinking that what they are watching is
** SERIOUS ** and that it ** MEANS SOMETHING ** is not childish.
- But a man playing that game who takes off his shoes, most likely because
he has sore feet, that's childish.
Tommy, you are right, there are things I don't understand about this game.
George
|
| 10.3995 | Hardaway is the MVP on Orlando's team.. Let shaq go | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed May 29 1996 12:19 | 15 |
| Another great Sports Debate... I did find one thing intreting about
10notes back someone pointed out that Van Exel and Rodman had contact
with refs but managed to forget about The Great Magic being no better
then either of them... I saw the replay, granted Van Exel should have
gotton the worse of the 3 fines but Id say Rodman/Magics were about
the same level....
I didn't get to see the replay but someone in one of the notesfiles
said SHAQ threw a little hissy in the locker room after the game. Ya
game 4 were he showed his NON-CHILDLIKE behavior by walking off the
floor without congrats to anyone... Damn the guy just might be MVP
for shooting free throws worse then ME and proving once again that he
is clearly not a leader...
MaB
|
| 10.3996 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed May 29 1996 12:22 | 9 |
| Oh one more thing, I think Children play the Sport, what we adults
watch is Entertainment, a buisness, you can't compare the 2. This
is a way of life for them (Pro Atheletes), in some case's its all
they got... I know Ive made stupid mistakes at my job that have
caused me to curse, of course I don't recall ever tipping over or
kicking a cpu but we've all let our emothions get the best of us
at one time or another...
Its there job man
|
| 10.3997 | OK, let's see: being a pain in the ass in SPROTS is not childish | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Wed May 29 1996 13:37 | 10 |
|
> - A good portion of those fans thinking that what they are watching is
> ** SERIOUS ** and that it ** MEANS SOMETHING ** is not childish.
I don't know about all this, but the pontificating that follows any
mild criticism of a pro athlete certainly rates right up there (as
childish).
glenn
|
| 10.3998 | back to Utah | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 29 1996 13:55 | 11 |
| And meanwhile, the Jazz held firm and refused to fold, something that
Shaq seemed unable to do. On the road, to boot.
Utah beats Seattlle, 98-95 in OT. There were several childish episodes.
The hero of the game was Horny Hornacek, the Phoenix Sun castoff.
Screw NBC and Hannah Storm, it's back to Utah Thursday night. Quite the
conflice with fav sit com Steinfeld, dontcha think.
TTom
|
| 10.3999 | Although dueling and caning haven't happened lately | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Wed May 29 1996 14:02 | 11 |
| > A grown man taking off his shoes
>It's not like this was something frivolous like
>what goes on in a hospital emergency room, the U.S. Senate or something.
That type of behavior in Congress would be taken for granted. We're
talking about professional sport where the standards are higher.
>the pontificating that follows any mild criticism of a pro athlete
Tim Green former Atlanta Falcon has a book "The Dark Side of the Game"
just released where he discusses in detail just that.
|
| 10.4000 | This is what we've been waiting for in the playoffs | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Wed May 29 1996 14:04 | 10 |
| Tremendous game lasted night. Utah showed a lot more guts than I
thought they had. Much of their success goes to ANtoine Carr, who by
his mere presence seems to have toughened up the Jazz and allowed them
to refuse to roll over and play dead.
Their win was all the more remarkable when you consider that Stockton
threw in another stinkeroo last night. Only four points, and complete
domination by Payton.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4001 | | AKOCOA::BREEN | Better days are coming bye and bye. BS | Wed May 29 1996 14:09 | 7 |
| These teams have played pretty good playoff games with a lot of
intensity - shame that all the ratings have gone to the listless Bulls
- Majic series but that's Michael.
How many minutes did Eisley get last night. He's been given quite a
showing during this playoff and has come thru pretty well. Oh, I
forgot Nazz, you don't watch ex BC in the nba.
|
| 10.4002 | bench came through | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 29 1996 14:30 | 22 |
| Eisley had 3 pts, 3 asts, 2 rbs in the 15 minutes.
Nazz mentioned Carr and another major contributor off the bench was
Russell who had hisself 15 points and 7 big rebounds. Both he and Carr
played 40 minutes or more.
The major effect that they two of 'em had was that they were often the
odd man out in the offense, meaning the Sonics played 'em loose to double
Malone.
As with the rest of the series, Payton din't need much help in shuting
down Stockton. The problem with this is the media is making this a case
of too little John when they should be emphasizing too much Gary. Payton
is a major handful that has really stepped up to where he's clearly the
best point guard in the league. Ron Harper gets the assignment if'n the
Sonics advance and he'll look slow, too, and he's a helluva defensive
player.
Chris Morris continued to been in the zone, the ozone that is.
GOOSE EGGS BABY!~
TTom
|
| 10.4003 | Nice game for Eisley | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Wed May 29 1996 14:36 | 12 |
|
>> Eisley had 3 pts, 3 asts, 2 rbs in the 15 minutes.
If numbers ever lied those certainly do. When Stockton went
out with 3 fouls in the second quarter Eisley came in and didn't
just fill in but picked up the Jazz. A couple of nice passes,
took good care of the ball and hit a nice running jay. Jerry
Sloan, who with Norm Van Lier formed my favorite boyhood guard
tandem, didn't hesitate to go back to Eisley later in the game
and Eisley didn't make him regret it. At this point with every-
thing on the line, Eisley figures to get more time until some-
one on the Jazz applies the Heimlich to Stockton.
|
| 10.4004 | don't look good | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 29 1996 14:41 | 9 |
| Eisley did play well.
In any case, neither of these teams seem to be able to consistently get
it done. With lapses in concentration like they're showing, they're
gonna be hard pressed to compete with the Bulls. At the close of
regulation, Utah couldn't dunk the ball and in OT, Payton was the onliest
one who scored for Seattle.
TTom
|
| 10.4005 | | NQOS01::nqsrv305.nqo.dec.com::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Wed May 29 1996 16:59 | 9 |
| > Jerry
>Sloan, who with Norm Van Lier formed my favorite boyhood guard
>tandem, didn't hesitate to go back to Eisley later in the game
Didn't know anyone else followed those Bulls, back before it was trendy.
With Bob Love and Chet Walker, they had sone decent teams, just never did
anything.
brews
|
| 10.4006 | the good ole days | BSS::MENDEZ | | Wed May 29 1996 17:54 | 4 |
| that was when I liked the bulls...
Their version of wennington in that time was Tom Boooooerwinkle.
Or who can forget the "older" Nate Thurmond....
|
| 10.4007 | Is Adam Keefe a player? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Wed May 29 1996 18:18 | 7 |
| Eisley is a dime a dozen point guard, who is just as likely to be back
in the CBA nexted season as playing for the Jazz.
I wonder why Sloan hasn't played Adam Keefe more in this series? He
looked really good the times I've seen the Jazz play this year.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4008 | no PT; might start | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 29 1996 18:23 | 11 |
| re: Keefe.
It looks like Keefe has matchup problems with the Seattle front line and
has been sitting while others from the bench have been playing. Lasted
night he played less than 10 minutes, total.
As for Eisley, this may be a_indictment of the overall lack of talent in
the NBA at point guard, but he's better than what some teams field.
Hail, he might be able to start for the Bugs!~
TTom
|
| 10.4009 | A potential PG for the Hornets | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Wed May 29 1996 18:27 | 5 |
| How much do the Bugs like Steve Nash in the draft? I think he's gonna
be a big-time player, perhaps even the next Stockton, and he could be
available at their pick.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4010 | | NQOS01::nqsrv305.nqo.dec.com::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Wed May 29 1996 18:29 | 3 |
| I think the Suns might be looking at him, too.
brews
|
| 10.4011 | big on Nash | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 29 1996 18:31 | 16 |
| The Bugs are really high on Nash.
GM Bob Bass is trying to keep it a secret which aint working all that
much. The Bugs have 2 firsted round picks - 13 and 16 - and if'n Nash is
there, they won't pass.
They figger that there's likely to be some big man still around at 16.
Othella Harrington came to town to audition so don't be surprised if this
is the other pick.
The other point guard being mentioned is Delk.
And of course, there's always the chance to parlay the 2 picks in some
kinda trade to move up.
TTom
|
| 10.4012 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Wed May 29 1996 19:57 | 5 |
| >They figger that there's likely to be some big man still around at 16.
>Othella Harrington came to town to audition so don't be surprised if this
>is the other pick.
He'll be around in the 2nd round...maybe after.
|
| 10.4013 | 3-0, 4-0, 4-0 !!!!! | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Wed May 29 1996 20:00 | 3 |
| Hey, we all know how pathetic the Knicks current roster is, but based on
playoff results, can we now say that NY and Indiana are after Chicago in
the "power rankings" in the East...with Orlando behind them ?
|
| 10.4015 | if'n | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed May 29 1996 20:21 | 8 |
| re: big man
I think that the best scenario for the Bugs is to somehow get Lorenzen
Wright from Memphis to go along with Nash.
And of course, semi-local talent, Todd Fuller will get a look, too.
TTom
|
| 10.4016 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Thu May 30 1996 13:04 | 11 |
| You have to like Cowens' sense of humor.
When asked if he was ready for his new job with Charlotte he replied:
I'm as ready as an unmilked cow at high noon. I'm dripping
ready.
Funny part is, having a spent a little time on a dairy farm, I know *EXACTLY*
how ready Dave Cowens is....
|
| 10.4017 | morning wood in the mid day | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 30 1996 13:40 | 10 |
| >Funny part is, having a spent a little time on a dairy farm, I know *EXACTLY*
>how ready Dave Cowens is....
I did the dairy farm thing, too, for a couple of years in the early 70s.
About 150 of them big black and white Holsteins.
However, this metaphor is mixed at best. Perhaps he's refering to milking
the dolphin?
TTom
|
| 10.4018 | Pitino stays | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 30 1996 15:28 | 68 |
| ESPNET SportsZone | NBA | Men's college basketball
PITINO SPURNS NETS, STAYS AT KENTUCKY
_________________________________________________________________
LEXINGTON, Ky. -- The New Jersey Nets offered a king's ransom, but it
was not enough to lure Rick Pitino away from the University of
Kentucky.
Pitino said Thursday that he has declined a lucrative offer to return
to the NBA as head coach of the Nets and will remain at Kentucky.
Pitino, who led Kentucky to the national championship this past
season, was offered a reported five-year deal worth $20 million to
become the head coach and director of basketball operations of the
Nets.
Pitino and his business manager, Rick Avare, met with Nets chairman
Henry Taub and team president Michael Rowe in Cincinnati Friday night
to discuss a complex Nets offer that would have given Pitino part
ownership as well as control of player personnel.
"I came away from that meeting intrigued with tremendous confidence
and respect for the future of that organization," Pitino said Thursday
in a prepared statement. "I want to thank them for their
consideration, but after a few days of thought, my wife gave me some
simple advise: 'Listen to your heart.' I realize now my heart is with
the players of Kentucky.
"I'm a big admirer of the NBA and I'm looking forward to covering the
draft as a television analyst. Everything else is completely closed,"
Pitino added.
Pitino made his decision in Ireland, where he is currently on a golf
vacation with the Kentucky Alumni Association. He will return on
Monday.
"Obviously, I'm excited that Rick has decided to stay at the
University," said Kentucky athletics director C.M. Newton. "I
appreciate his openness and straightforwardness in the way he has
handled the situation.
"I have great respect for Rick, both personally and professionally,
and I consider him to be a great basketball coach and close friend. I
look forward to continuing our relationship at the University for
years to come."
The Nets had no immediate comment on Pitino's decision.
Pitino has coached at Kentucky for the last seven years and led the
Wildcats to the national championship this past season. Kentucky beat
Syracuse 76-67 April 1 in the NCAA championship game. It was the
school's first national championship since 1978.
Pitino previously served as a head coach in the NBA with the New York
Knicks. He had a 90-74 record in two years with the Knicks.
New York finished 24-58 in 1986-87 and improved to 38-44 the following
season in Pitino's first year. The Knicks went 52-30 under Pitino in
1988-89. But philosophical differences with general manager Al Bianchi
caused Pitino to leave the Knicks, and he accepted the head coaching
position at Kentucky in 1989.
The Nets are looking for a replacement for Butch Beard, who was fired
after the season. Beard posted 30-52 records in each of his two
seasons as head coach.
|
| 10.4019 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu May 30 1996 17:07 | 8 |
| > PITINO SPURNS NETS, STAYS AT KENTUCKY
I'm struggling to find a selfish reason for Pitino to make this
decision, and can't...unless he just doesn't see NJ has a winning
situation (on the court) for him.
I will hold out as long as possible before I back away from the
Larry Brown, ie: wanderer, label.
|
| 10.4020 | Climbed the career ladder and has stayed put | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Thu May 30 1996 17:31 | 22 |
| >> I'm struggling to find a selfish reason for Pitino to make this
>> decision, and can't...unless he just doesn't see NJ has a winning
>> situation (on the court) for him.
>> I will hold out as long as possible before I back away from the
>> Larry Brown, ie: wanderer, label.
Come on now ... the guy has been at Kentucky for SEVEN years ...
what else does he have to do to shake this "Larry Brown" label?
And what did he do to deserve it in the first place?
He moved up the coaching ladder in the college ranks, ending
up at Providence, took them to the final four ... then left the
college ranks to go to the pro's ... lasted two years with the
Knicks before his feud with GM Al Bianchi forced him out ...
took the job at Kentucky and has been there since ... nothing
like Larry, who has bounced back and forth between the pros
and the colleges and all around in between ...
Vinny - one of the few Pitino fans in this conference
|
| 10.4021 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Thu May 30 1996 18:33 | 16 |
|
>> I'm struggling to find a selfish reason for Pitino to make this
>> decision, and can't...unless he just doesn't see NJ has a winning
>> situation (on the court) for him.
Pitino would have been crazy to take the NJ job. He's the de facto
king of Kentucky right now. He has as easy a time recruiting big
time talent as a college coach could hope for and he makes enough
money to wear a different Armani suit everyday. His side money in
Kentucky must be astronmoical. What does he gain besides the upfront
money if he goes to Jersey? An ulcer? Sleepless nights? The constant
aggravation of trying to motivate the multi-millionare Derrick Colemans
of the NBA? Four years and then back to college ball where he'll never
find a job as sweet as the one he left in Kentucky? Pitino didn't
stay for the kids. He stayed because he has the best job in basket-
ball.
|
| 10.4022 | yepper | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 30 1996 18:42 | 6 |
| Uh, Tommy. Derrick's in Philly.
But I totally agree with the gism of your note. He's got it made in
Lexington. And it aint like the offer is coming from a contender.
TTom
|
| 10.4023 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Thu May 30 1996 18:46 | 7 |
|
>> Uh, Tommy. Derrick's in Philly.
I know. I said "Derrick Colemans of the NBA" as in that type.
Rick seems to like every hair on his head neatly in place.
A couple of years in Jersey and he'll be pulling it out by
the handfuls.
|
| 10.4024 | wattabout Daly? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 30 1996 18:52 | 16 |
| BTW, what did the almight kids say about this. The article implies
that he made up his mind somewhere between his wife and playing golf in
Ireland.
What if'n the kids want him to leave? Will he reconsider?
One thing I did like is that he put a_end, at least now, to pursuing
another NBA job.
What I'm wondering about is whether anyone's gonna talk Daly outta his
retirement. Recently, he said that he's enjoying his time now and isn't
ready to get back in the trenches. But if'n Pitino can get this kinda
offer, think what Daly must be worth having proven he can take a pro team
to the promised land.
TTom
|
| 10.4025 | btw - I liked Danny Ainge as a TNT commentator | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Thu May 30 1996 19:11 | 17 |
| >> What I'm wondering about is whether anyone's gonna talk Daly outta his
>> retirement. Recently, he said that he's enjoying his time now and isn't
>> ready to get back in the trenches. But if'n Pitino can get this kinda
>> offer, think what Daly must be worth having proven he can take a pro team
>> to the promised land.
A couple things regarding Daly:
(1) Peter Vescey reported recently that Shaquille wanted Daly
to replace Brian Hill in Orlando ...
(2) I don't think that Daly is worth as much now as he was a few
years ago ... the New Jersey experience showed that even
Chuck has problems with todays NBA spoiled brats (ie. even he
couldn't win Derrick Coleman / Kenny Anderson / Chris Morris)
Vinny
|
| 10.4026 | could be... | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu May 30 1996 19:23 | 14 |
| And not just cause you like Danny ... ;=]
I think the New Jersey situation showed exactly how good Daly is. He gets
'em up to .500 and/or near playoff and then Beard wins 25 with about the
same team.
I agree that Daly prolly got his fill of the brat pack.
And I don't take anything Peter Vescey says seriously. The other day on
the radio I heard a beat writer in Orlando answer a question posed to him
about Shaq possibly trying to leverage Hill outta town. He said that he
doubted the Shaq cared enough to get someone else fired.
TTom
|
| 10.4027 | It's grand comedy... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Fri May 31 1996 00:26 | 6 |
|
Hail, the NBA's barely even real "sport" anyway. Why bother even
analyzing it or its coaches, dead (Daly) or alive (Ainge)...
glenn
|
| 10.4028 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri May 31 1996 13:28 | 10 |
|
I saw an interview with Shaq a day or two after Orlando got
swept. He was specifically asked about Brian Hill. His only response
was that he was brought up to respect his elders. My job is to play
Basketball, no matter who is coaching. I didn't do a good enough job
and have to work to get better. So he side tracked the question as
best as he good, he didn't say he liked Brian Hill, yet didn't
say he wanted him to stay.
Ron
|
| 10.4029 | caint win | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 31 1996 14:12 | 7 |
| It sounds like another case of damn with feint praise. Shaq appears to be
able to talk the talk but hasn't shown he can walk the walk.
Hill is basically in a no win situation, with anything less than the ring
considered underachieving.
TTom
|
| 10.4030 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 14:15 | 15 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4027 by EDWIN::WAUGAMAN "Hardball, good ol' country" >>>
> -< It's grand comedy... >-
> Hail, the NBA's barely even real "sport" anyway. Why bother even
> analyzing it or its coaches, dead (Daly) or alive (Ainge)...
Some times they don't even wear shoes.
Now you'd never catch college kids not wear'en shoes cuz college ball
is a sport.
Of course college swimmers don't wear shoes, I wonder where that puts the
swimming program?
George
|
| 10.4031 | NBA should be right up your alley, George | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Fri May 31 1996 14:18 | 8 |
| If they can add judges and "aesthetic appeal" George will buy season
tickets. I'm surprised George that you aren't more into this sport
except Boston still doesn't do it the way you'd like.
What could they do at Fleet to get you full time: Dancing girls, Boom
boxes (okay for you with classical music, soft jazz); And the dancing
would be ballet. Temperature control and comfortable seats they
already have.
|
| 10.4032 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 14:28 | 9 |
| I like the NBA. I watch the Celtics on TV but it's pretty depressing. I
watch the playoffs but it's more depressing without the Celtics playing. And
they have judges and dancing girls only they call them Refs and cheerleaders.
As for the Fleet Center, I can't afford to go to the games. If they charged
$8 for general admission and $22 for the best seat in the house the way they do
at Fenway, then I could afford to go.
George
|
| 10.4033 | fer sure | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 31 1996 14:34 | 16 |
| I've never seen Daly coaching without shoes. I heard once that Ainge
doesn't wear any underwear but that came from Hannah Storm who really
doesn't wear any underwear.
Not really knowing much about NBA, George misses a cogent point. Shoes
are big in the NBA. You got your Air Jordans whose current manifestationa
used to be illegal cause they shine but are now OK since The Big Fix was
put in allowing Jordan to return to the league. You got you Penny and
L'il Penny ads with your big name stars like Spike Lee. You got
Planetreebok and a bunch of brands that you aint even heard of.
What the media din't report was the brand of the shoe that Rodman took
off. That's where the real story is. And of course, whereever there's
a_unreported story there is sure to be some coverup and consipiracy.
TTom
|
| 10.4034 | Cleamons to be Mav Haid Coach | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 31 1996 15:12 | 9 |
| And speaking of the NBA, it looks like the Mavs are gonna join USC in
saying no to Paul Westphal. It looks like their man is Jim Cleamons.
Ironically, the Hornets were told that they couldn't talk with Cleamons
cause Kraus said it was standard policy that you had to wait until the
playoffs were over afore talking to one of the Bulls. Wail, I guess this
policy has been amended. Maybe it's just a divisional thing.
TTom
|
| 10.4035 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Fri May 31 1996 15:18 | 2 |
|
Jimmy Cleamons, ex-Cav.
|
| 10.4036 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Fri May 31 1996 15:18 | 10 |
| I bet some of the Young NBA players would love to still be in college
look at all the Perks...
1 - NO Salary Cap so they can get paid as much as they can HIDE
2 - NO TAXES.. All cash under the table
Not to mention easy access to Pain Killers, WOmen etc...
MaB
|
| 10.4037 | good stuff like by all | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 31 1996 15:40 | 19 |
| It's not just college guys who like these things.
> 1 - NO Salary Cap so they can get paid as much as they can HIDE
Wasn't that part of the Dick Armey Flat Tax plan or the Contract on
America of something...
> 2 - NO TAXES.. All cash under the table
Sortra like Strawberry, Pete Rose and Johnny Unitas...
> Not to mention easy access to Pain Killers, WOmen etc...
You got your basic Sex and Drugs here. If'n ol' etc. includes some Rock n'
Roll, you got yourself that classic hat trick.
I wonder if'n that WOmen a freudian type slip, though...
TTom
|
| 10.4038 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 15:58 | 8 |
|
>> And they have judges and dancing girls only they call them Refs
>> and cheerleaders.
They're refs not judges. Refs enforce rules. Judges determine
the score of the game. When the NBA actually lets the fans vote
on the winner of a game get back to use.
|
| 10.4039 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 16:10 | 19 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4038 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> They're refs not judges. Refs enforce rules. Judges determine
> the score of the game. When the NBA actually lets the fans vote
> on the winner of a game get back to use.
**** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING
**** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING
**** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING
Tommy has once again has started his favorite LDUC:
THE *** GREAT *** FIGURE *** SKATING *** DEBATE
THE *** GREAT *** FIGURE *** SKATING *** DEBATE
THE *** GREAT *** FIGURE *** SKATING *** DEBATE
Grab the women and children, stock up the 'fridge, head for the basement.
George
|
| 10.4040 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 16:11 | 2 |
|
Grow up.
|
| 10.4041 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 16:15 | 4 |
|
Does that mean I have to keep my shoes on?
George
|
| 10.4042 | no rules to break | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 31 1996 16:17 | 9 |
| Naw, as you should know SPROTS aint got these kinda rules.
As for shoes, I say it should be a matter of personal choice, assuming
your age if not IQ is over 21.
Same as facks. You can have, you can twist or you can just plain ol' not
have any. Don't matter, neither, too.
TTom
|
| 10.4043 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 16:25 | 7 |
|
>> Does that mean I have to keep my shoes on?
I don't care if you run aounrd in a jockstrap and Bozo wig.
I would appreciate it, though if you'd not continually drag
up the same idiotic discussion time and again as if you were
brain damaged.
|
| 10.4044 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 16:30 | 13 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4043 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> I don't care if you run aounrd in a jockstrap and Bozo wig.
> I would appreciate it, though if you'd not continually drag
> up the same idiotic discussion time and again as if you were
> brain damaged.
If only brain damaged people talk about this, then why did you make the
comment about refs not being judges?
Does that mean that you are brain damaged as well?
George
|
| 10.4045 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Fri May 31 1996 16:31 | 19 |
| >> They're refs not judges. Refs enforce rules. Judges determine
>> the score of the game. When the NBA actually lets the fans vote
>> on the winner of a game get back to use.
>
> **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING
> **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING
> **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING **** WARNING
>
> Tommy has once again has started his favorite LDUC:
>
> THE *** GREAT *** FIGURE *** SKATING *** DEBATE
> THE *** GREAT *** FIGURE *** SKATING *** DEBATE
> THE *** GREAT *** FIGURE *** SKATING *** DEBATE
Amazingly enough, I saw no mention of figure skating in Tommy's reply.
And I can't see how you can make the assumption, given that diving and
other sports have judges.
So give it a rest.
|
| 10.4046 | the rose goes on the front, big guy | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri May 31 1996 16:34 | 6 |
| And I don't care if'n George walks around in only a jock strap as long as
I don't have to see it.
Tim Robbins is OK, cause it's in a semi-great movie. But that's about it.
TTom
|
| 10.4047 | It's that simple | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 16:42 | 4 |
|
>> then why did you make the comment about refs not being judges?
Because they're not.
|
| 10.4048 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 17:04 | 19 |
| I really get a kick out of the hit and run style of arguing where you guys
make your point then try to beat me up so I won't argue back. Gee, I'm really
intimidated, I wonder if I'll be too afraid to continue? aaaaAAAAAHHHHH no, I
guess not. Too bad.
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
Judge (juj) [short u] v. judged judging.
[verb definitions omitted]
-n. 1. A public official who hears and decides cases brought before a
court of law; justice; magistrate. 2. An appointed arbiter in a contest
or competition. 3. One whos critical judgment or opinion is sought;
a connoisseur. [< L judex (judic-) judge.] - judg'er n.
Looks to me like definition 2 above fits basketball refs like a glove.
George
|
| 10.4049 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 17:19 | 10 |
|
>> Looks to me like definition 2 above fits basketball refs like a glove.
Wrong again, Groaner, Jr. Arbiters like... say... JUDGES decide outcomes.
Refs enforce rules like... say... COPS.
BTW - it's not that we try and beat you up so you won't argue back, We
just wish you'd just not start this idiocy in the first place.
Unfortunately you seem unable to help yourself.
|
| 10.4050 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Fri May 31 1996 17:25 | 12 |
| RE: .4049
Are you accusing me of noting from George's account... because George
said:
"Looks to me like definition 2 above fits basketball refs like a
glove."
Not I.
I would have never used the term "fits like a glove" after the OJ
butcher job and acquittal.
|
| 10.4051 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 17:39 | 19 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4049 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Wrong again, Groaner, Jr. Arbiters like... say... JUDGES decide outcomes.
> Refs enforce rules like... say... COPS.
Ok so what does a line judge do?
Meanwhile, check this out. From that same American Heritage:
referee (ref\e-re) _n. 1. One to whom something is referred, esp. in a
court of law; an arbitrator. 2. An official supervising a game; an umpire.
umpire (um'pir') n. 1. A person appointed to rule on plays in various
sports. 2. A person empowered to settle a dispute. 3. A judge.
So refs are umpires, umpires are judges, but judges are not refs.
Weird that,
George
|
| 10.4052 | just wonderin | BSS::MENDEZ | | Fri May 31 1996 19:45 | 8 |
| Based on those definitions it looks like George "MIGHT" have
a point. only thing is......
kick me if you want
but what are the rules in ice skating or wwf???
|
| 10.4053 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 20:13 | 12 |
| Well, WWF is just a show, not unlike an episode of "The Three Stooges".
Ice Skating? Guess it depends. There are lots of things that involve ice
skating. Hockey, Competitive Figure Skating, Speed Skating, etc. have rules.
Then there are ice shows and skating on the local pond for exercise which
don't have rules.
But I wonder who's going to be line judge for the Patriots on opening day.
Who ever it is I hope when they decide the outcome of the game that they pick
the Patriots to win.
George
|
| 10.4054 | is drowning a sport? | NQOS01::nqsrv219.nqo.dec.com::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Fri May 31 1996 20:16 | 8 |
| >Then there are ice shows and skating on the local pond for exercise which
>don't have rules.
here the rule for skating on a local pond is "always wear a flotation device"
hth
brews
|
| 10.4055 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | Loose with rhythmic syncopations | Fri May 31 1996 20:33 | 11 |
|
Does that go along with Ice fishing.
This ole boy drags all his fishing gear out on the ice. Grabs his auger,
and starts cutting a hole. He hears a voice overhead "There's no fish in
that spot". So he picks up all his gear and moves to another spot. Starts
to cut another hole. He hear the voice again " There's no fish in that
spot. So he moves to a new spot. Get ready to cut another hole, and
hear the same voice "There's no fish in that spot" He looks around and
says " what the heck, is that you God" the voice replies "Nooo it's the
rink manager"
|
| 10.4056 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 20:47 | 17 |
|
>> But I wonder who's going to be line judge for the Patriots on
>> opening day. Who ever it is I hope when they decide the outcome
>> of the game that they pick the Patriots to win.
Why would the line judge pick the Pats to win? Common sense would
seem to indicate that a line judge's job by definition would be to
decide issues involving *the line*. That would seem to be intuit-
ively obvious. After all, football is not a popularity contest where
even, say, oh I don't know, even the audience could decide by vote
the outcome of a contest. That would be utterly farcical wouldn't
it? What self-respecting sport would allow such a thing to happen.
I can't possibly imagine. Also I can't imagine going to a basketball
game and calling the referee "the judge" any more than I can imagine
going to a football game and calling the middle linebacker the "center
linebacker" but then again I actually go to games so I know the
difference.
|
| 10.4057 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri May 31 1996 21:03 | 15 |
|
So in other words when you said:
RE <<< Note 10.4049 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Wrong again, Groaner, Jr. Arbiters like... say... JUDGES decide outcomes.
> Refs enforce rules like... say... COPS.
you were wrong. Line judges do not decide outcomes.
Better scramble Tommy. Maybe if you say "centerline backer" 15 times in a
row no one will notice how your foot is implanted about 6 inches behind and
below your tongue.
George
|
| 10.4059 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Fri May 31 1996 23:21 | 7 |
|
>> Line judges do not decide outcomes.
Who do you think decides where they spot the ball, Junior?
And the next time a referee decides a figure skating contest
get back to me. Only judges and any Tom, Dick or Harry with
the price od admission can do that.
|
| 10.4060 | Those Old Time Bulls | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Sun Jun 02 1996 15:23 | 12 |
| re: .4003
Center: Tom Boerwinkel
SF: Chet "The Jet" Walker
PF: Bob "Butterbean" Love
PG: Norm Van Lier
2G: Jerry Sloan
Nice team. I really liked them. Clearly the weak link
on this team's starting five was the center.
Tony
|
| 10.4061 | "Nevermind!" | STRATA::BARBIERI | | Sun Jun 02 1996 15:25 | 4 |
| Oh, the rest of the starting five got mentioned!
They also had Clifford Ray for a few years before he
went to the Warriors, didn't they?
|
| 10.4062 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Jun 03 1996 13:31 | 21 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4059 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Who do you think decides where they spot the ball, Junior?
> And the next time a referee decides a figure skating contest
> get back to me. Only judges and any Tom, Dick or Harry with
> the price od admission can do that.
Well what do you know. Tommy's motive for getting into this debate was
an attempt at starting the Great Figure Skating debate once again. Can't
stay away from it can you Tommy. You are more obsessed with figure skating
than anyone I know.
But I'm just curious. In note 10.4049 when you said:
> Wrong again, Groaner, Jr. Arbiters like... say... JUDGES decide outcomes.
> Refs enforce rules like... say... COPS.
Were you wrong or do you believe judges like the line judges in football
decide outcomes?
George
|
| 10.4063 | Not up to your usual standard | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Mon Jun 03 1996 13:43 | 20 |
| George, as often as not, I side with you on these LDUCs, but I think you're
playing word games here:
>> > Wrong again, Groaner, Jr. Arbiters like... say... JUDGES decide outcomes.
>> > Refs enforce rules like... say... COPS.
> Were you wrong or do you believe judges like the line judges in football
> decide outcomes?
While football has officials *called* "line judge" or "field judge", I don't
think you can argue that their function (deciding where to spot a ball or
whether the rules have been infringed upon) is comparable to that of a judge
in figure skating, boxing, gymnastics, etc., etc., whose function is to
decide who has won or lost.
On the other hand, who cares? I admit to enjoying these discussions, because
you both write well and entertainingly, but honestly, I don't understand for
the life of me your respective abilities to yank each other's chains.
Steve
|
| 10.4064 | and to the finals | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 03 1996 14:18 | 29 |
| >On the other hand, who cares?
On both hands...
Meanwhile, back to basketball, as in NBA, the Sonics will face off
against the Bulls having dispatched the Jazz, 90-86.
Peyton outplayed Stockton and Hersey Hawkins, erstwhile Bug, did a good
job on Horny Hornacek who had been having a pretty good series.
Some great mathchups:
1G Ron Harper Gary Payton Payton by quickness
2G Jordan Hersey Hawkins no contest
C Luc Longley Ervin Johnson push
3F Scottie Pippen Detlef Schrempf Pippen
4F Da Worm Sean Kemp Kemp, barely
6th Tony Kukoc Sam Perkins Perkins
To me the key will be the job Rodman does on Kemp. If'n he can make Kemp
work hard, and force him away from the basket, Rodman just might take him
outta the game.
If'n Schrempf decides to post up which he don't he could cause Pippen
some defensive problems. Kukoc has been lost in space these playoffs.
But it's real simple, Jordan dominates. Bulls win 4-1.
TTom
|
| 10.4065 | playoff schedule | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 03 1996 14:32 | 13 |
| Here's the playoff schedule:
Wednesday June 5 at Chicago 9 p.m. NBC
Friday June 7 at Chicago 9 p.m. NBC
Sunday June 9 at Seattle 7:30 p.m. NBC
Wednesday June 12 at Seattle 9 p.m. NBC
*Friday June 14 at Seattle 9 p.m. NBC
*Sunday June 16 at Chicago 7:30 p.m. NBC
*Wednesday June 19 at Chicago 9 p.m. NBC
* the ol' if'n it's needed...
TTom
|
| 10.4066 | genii status | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 03 1996 14:37 | 15 |
| Round1 Round2 Conf Final Games
---------------------------------------------------------------------
WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M 7 3 2 CHIC 4-0
AKOCOA::BREEN 7 3 1 CHIC 4-2
ODIXIE::ZOGRAN 7 3 1 CHIC 4-1
XTATIC::CHILDS 7 2 1 CHIC ---
AD::HEATH 7 2 1 CHIC 4-3
ROCK::GRONOWSKI 6 4 2 CHIC ---
SHARE::DERRY 6 3 2 CHIC 4-1
BIS1::ROOSEN 6 3 1 CHIC 4-2
PHXSS1::HEISER 6 2 0 HOUS 4-2
NPUBS::NAZZARO 5 2 2 SEAT 4-2
HBAHBA::HAAS 5 2 1 CHIC 4-1
PSYS::BROOKS 4 2 1 CHIC 4-0
ROCK::HUBER 4 0 0 CLEV ---
|
| 10.4067 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Jun 03 1996 16:15 | 24 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4063 by MUNDIS::SSHERMAN "Clean living and a fast outfield" >>>
>While football has officials *called* "line judge" or "field judge", I don't
>think you can argue that their function (deciding where to spot a ball or
>whether the rules have been infringed upon) is comparable to that of a judge
>in figure skating, boxing, gymnastics, etc., etc., whose function is to
>decide who has won or lost.
I'm not arguing that. I haven't said a word about figure skating for months.
I was just answering Bill who said that I would probably like going to the
Fleet Center (where the Boston Celtics play) if they had judges and dancing
girls. All I said was that they do have judges and dancing girls but they call
them refs and cheerleaders.
From the dictionary it would appear that I am correct and that the words
judge and ref sometimes have the same meaning since what a line judge in
football does is similar to what refs do in football and basketball.
At that point there was no evidence that we were limiting the term "judge"
refer to the type of judge that officiates at a figure skating or gymnastic
event. Someone else brought that up later.
George
|
| 10.4068 | of course Ewing gets a mention.... | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 03 1996 16:55 | 13 |
|
I'll be surprised if Seattle even wins a game.
Anyone else see the new immediate classic hall of fame ESPN commerical for
"Fans Against Travelling"..................
I caught if for the first time this morning.....
Got to disagree with ya TTom. Rodman's come to play this year. he ain't let no
kid take his piece of the pie.
mike
|
| 10.4069 | could be | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 03 1996 17:03 | 14 |
| >Got to disagree with ya TTom. Rodman's come to play this year. he ain't let no
>kid take his piece of the pie.
I guess this matchup will be settled by who gets to play their game. If'n
Kemp can keep his cool, which is most definitely not a given, he'll get
the nod over Rodman. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rodman get
into ol' Kemp's haid at which time, Kemp might force it against him and
either spend long periods on the bench or get tossed outright.
There's other factors in the series as well. Steve Kerr has been shooting
real well while Nate McMillan hasn't been able to score and might be one
of those that tries to help Hersey out with covering Jordan.
TTom
|
| 10.4070 | Maybe I should reevalute my feelings on Malone | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Jun 03 1996 18:39 | 14 |
| Obviously if I said "Judges and dancing girls" I was contrasting it to
the NBA where total points period decides the final issue and a ref can
protect a stiff like the fakeman Karl Malone all he wants and the final
outcome can go the other way.
And are you saying that the Celtics now have cheerleaders? I wasn't
aware that they had done that. They have all sorts of music other than
Kiley on the organ too especially since Kiley passed away.
I must say one thing about Karl Malone, he sure is one big,strong dude.
I had the sound down last night and never knew the time had gone down
to 15 seconds until the very end. What is the big problem about
putting that little box in the corner? Obvious, if you can't hear you
can't hear the commercial.
|
| 10.4071 | Seattle has no chance | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 04 1996 14:28 | 10 |
| On Seattle's team, there are 4, count 'em 4, ex-Bugs. Hersey Hawkins,
David Wingate, Frank Brickowski and Steve Scheffler. I guess the fasest
way for Bugs to get to the finals is to be traded.
Throw in a couple of collegians, Sam Perkins of No Carolina and Nate
McMillan from State and you got yourself more local connections.
Bases solely on these associations, I'd expect a Bulls sweep :=]
TTom
|
| 10.4072 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue Jun 04 1996 15:31 | 17 |
|
>> All I said was that they do have judges and dancing girls
>> but they call them refs and cheerleaders.
There are no cheerleaders at the Fleet Center just as there
weren't any at the old Garden. But you knew that otherwise you
wouldn't be in the NBA note.
>> judge and ref sometimes have the same meaning since what a line
>> judge in football does is similar to what refs do in football and
>> basketball.
This is a bit confused but on the surface it's wrong. Judges and
refs have different functions in football.
|
| 10.4073 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue Jun 04 1996 15:39 | 19 |
|
>> PG: Norm Van Lier
>> 2G: Jerry Sloan
One of the things that has changed with the emergence of the
superstar as the basis for "teams", imo, is the demise of guard
tadems. Back when Sloan and Van Lier were working the back-
court for Chicago, you had Oscar Robertson and Lucius Allen in
Milwaukee, JoJo White and John Havlicek in Boston, Monroe and
Frazier in New York, West and Goodrich in LA, etc, etc, etc.
There was a more cohesive team concept and the guards tended
to compliment each other more and set the general personality
of the team. Chicago was a tough team because Sloan and Van
Lier led the league in floor burns and charges taken. New York
was silky smooth. Boston steady but effective. That's a thing
of the past. Teams seldom have one solid guard never mind two
and the team assume the personality of its dominant player no
matter what position he plays. As a result fundamentals suffer
byt showtime thrives.
|
| 10.4074 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 04 1996 15:46 | 9 |
| Tom,
I was thinking that those 10-1 odds were looking pretty good. Kemp
could have a pretty good series but your state product McMillan is
injured and the sonics need every body. Also, Detlef Shrempf is a key.
Payton will try to defend Jordan I take it.
I'm looking for 6 games.
billte
|
| 10.4075 | still see 4 or 5, tops | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 04 1996 15:53 | 18 |
| Seattle is gonna have to run ever guard they have at Jordan, Harper,
Kerr, et. al.
Maybe Vincent Askew will step up. Or send Schefler out to pick a fight
with da Woim.
Payton may not defend Jordan as the basic matchup. In the Jazz series he
din't switch to the hot and Horny Hornacek even when it was apparent that
Stockton was having a bad series. Where I look for Payton to come into
play defensively is in the traps.
What we have here is not only the two winningest teams in the league but
definitely the two bestest defensive teams.
FWIW, I'd think that the 72 games the the Bulls won and the 64 won by the
Sonics should be some kinda record for most wins between the finalists.
TTom
|
| 10.4076 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 15:56 | 14 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4072 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
You still on this? I thought we all agreed to give it a rest. But since
you insist:
> This is a bit confused but on the surface it's wrong. Judges and
> refs have different functions in football.
... and one of the judges functions is to "decide the outcome of the game"?
Or were you wrong when you make the blanket statement that judges decide
the outcome of the game?
George
|
| 10.4077 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue Jun 04 1996 16:06 | 10 |
| >> judge and ref sometimes have the same meaning since what a line
>> judge in football does is similar to what refs do in football and
>> basketball.
BTW - there's no line of scrimmage in basketball (you may want to
write that down, George) so this statement is wrong on that
count, too.
|
| 10.4078 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue Jun 04 1996 16:18 | 9 |
| >> -< still see 4 or 5, tops >-
Seattle will take game 1. This series will be better than
expected because Chicago's strenght and Seattle's strength
is defense but Seattle has better balance offensively. The
key for Seattle will be Schrempf and Hawkins. If they can
20-30 total points per game out of those two they can make it
tough on Chicago. The thing that'll hurt Seattle is Payton
and/or Kemp trying to do too much.
|
| 10.4079 | a possible wager? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 04 1996 16:28 | 12 |
| > Seattle will take game 1.
Sounds like the makings of a p-name.
I say it won't happen and if'n it does, I'll sport a_appropriate p-name
for the duration of the finals. Standard loophole closings, fer sure.
How bout the loser has to switch to something like:
"George knows what he's talking about"
TTom
|
| 10.4080 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 17:23 | 18 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4077 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> BTW - there's no line of scrimmage in basketball (you may want to
> write that down, George) so this statement is wrong on that
> count, too.
Keep blowing smoke Tommy. My statement that basketball has judges but they
were called refs is backed up by the definitions of those two words in the
dictionary. That comes straight from the context in which I made that remark.
I never implied that the actual calls officials make in different events are
the same.
However I'm still waiting to see if you stand by your statement that judges
are different from refs in that they determine the outcome of events. Do you
stand by that or are ready to back off and for the 1st time in SPORTS notes
file history admit that you were wrong.
George
|
| 10.4081 | please | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 04 1996 17:44 | 24 |
| Judges, refs, whatever.
The outcome of some sports is determined by the participants achievements
and not by the opinion of judge/ref/whatever. These include basketball
and most of the majors like football, baseball, hockey, golf, bowling,
etc.. In all of these sports, the role of the judge/ref/whatever is
primarily to enforce the rules. If'n you drub George's team in basketball
it matters not whether your slam dunk over him was graded highly.
The outcome of some sports is determined by the opinion of the
judge/ref/whatever and not the participants achievements. These include
figure skating, gymnastics, diving, etc. That George completes a double
spin matters not at all. Only what the judge/ref/whatever thinks about it
matters.
Then there's some in between sports where the judge/ref/whatever may or
may not determine the outcome. Boxing is a_example. If'n the guy knocks
George out, he wins. If not, the judge/ref/whatever can stop the fight
and/or vote on the outcome.
And then there's the act of god. George is all wet and the
judge/ref/whatever cancel the whole affair.
TTom
|
| 10.4082 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 04 1996 18:10 | 9 |
| The context of the original note that contrasted refs and judges
specifially used that type of definition: that one determined the event
(judges ie figure skating) and the other "enforced rules". I don't see
where a dictionary usage would be relevant; the whole point of the
original note was to point out that for some the nba would be perfect
if it had judges deciding the outcome.
btw, your comment (George) that the price of Fleet tickets negates
attendance vis a vis baseball makes sense.
|
| 10.4083 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 18:28 | 21 |
| RE <<< Note 276.1 by HBAHBA::HAAS "more madness, less horror" >>>
>Does this mean you'll take all of your crap about judges outta the NBA
>topic and move it here?
No, I can't do that because it isn't my crap (krap actually).
I was responding to a very casual question by Bill as to why I didn't go to
the Fleet Center and the thing about judges was a minor point. The main point I
was making had to do with the cost.
It was then Tommy who launched in and turned our simple discussion into a
LDUC by making the claim that all judges in competitions determine the outcome
of the event, a ridiculous statement when you consider what a line judge does
in football.
So the bottom line is talk to them. Bill asked the question, Tommy blew it up
into a fight. As I've said all along, if no one mentions this stuff you won't
hear about it from me.
George
|
| 10.4084 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue Jun 04 1996 18:28 | 10 |
|
>> My statement that basketball has judges but they were called refs
>> is backed up by the definitions of those two words in the dictionary.
Sorry, George but agreeing to that would be to say that the judges
in skating are also referees and I just can't do that. But thanks
for moving to another topic because it's obvious that you have nothing
to say about the NBA.
|
| 10.4085 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 18:33 | 16 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4084 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> Sorry, George but agreeing to that would be to say that the judges
> in skating are also referees and I just can't do that. But thanks
> for moving to another topic because it's obvious that you have nothing
> to say about the NBA.
Considering that basketball is down the list on sports I like that's not
saying much but considering that basketball and football are two of your top
sports I'll always cherish you comment about how judges determine the outcome
of sporting events.
From this day forward I'll never look at a line judge in a football quite the
same way.
George
|
| 10.4087 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 19:25 | 13 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4086 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
/Tommy Mode On
> I'm f at high and
> can't possibly procate.
Sorry to hear about that Tommy.
/Tommy Mode Off
George
|
| 10.4088 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Tue Jun 04 1996 19:43 | 1 |
| What's "procate"-ing?
|
| 10.4089 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Tue Jun 04 1996 19:44 | 11 |
|
>> I say it won't happen and if'n it does, I'll sport a_appropriate p-name
>> for the duration of the finals. Standard loophole closings, fer sure.
>> How bout the loser has to switch to something like:
>> "George knows what he's talking about"
I'd rather wear burlap underwear for a week. I'll make you a p-name
with some other string and if you give me odds, say two weeks to one,
I'll bet you that the series goes six games or more.
|
| 10.4090 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 19:45 | 7 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4088 by IMBETR::DUPREZ "It's Baseball And You're An American" >>>
>What's "procate"-ing?
Don't know, I didn't write it.
George
|
| 10.4091 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 19:47 | 14 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4089 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> >> How bout the loser has to switch to something like:
> >> "George knows what he's talking about"
... and the winner gets to use the Pname
"Line judges determine the winner of football games"
in honor of someone who claims to know what they are talking about.
Of course "logic has no place ..."
George
|
| 10.4092 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Tue Jun 04 1996 20:07 | 2 |
|
Chicago will win in 5. Now where's the latest NBA playoff poll update?
|
| 10.4094 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Tue Jun 04 1996 20:16 | 8 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4093 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove" >>>
> >> "Line judges determine the winner of football games"
> Sorry, George but you're the only one who believs that.
If I'm the only one who believes it, why were you the one who said it?
George
|
| 10.4095 | Total Drag | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Jun 04 1996 22:23 | 6 |
| This whole George/Brydie arguing thing is so pathetic!
Some arguments are actually fun to read through, but
this string is apallingly BORING and the content is
totally useless.
What an eyesore!
|
| 10.4096 | poll in peril | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 05 1996 13:42 | 24 |
| re: .4092
> Chicago will win in 5. Now where's the latest NBA playoff poll update?
I agree.
Check .4066.
I wanna go on record right now that I smell the brewing of yet another
controversy. Here's the issues:
1. Firted of all, I like the use of the word poll instead of contest. For
one thing, there aint no rules except about getting your vote in afore it
all started.
2. There are no judges to assign points for efforts. What is a correct
pick worth in the firsted round, second round, etc.?
3. Some picked a final number of games and some din't and no one said you
had to.
What to do, what to do,...
TTom
|
| 10.4097 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Wed Jun 05 1996 13:43 | 2 |
|
P-name bet tonight, TTom?
|
| 10.4098 | shore | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 05 1996 14:30 | 7 |
| Sure, I'm up for this game. I'll give you odds.
Here's the deal, If'n I win, you sport some p-name that we agree to off
line for the duration of the series. If'n you win, I'll do the same plus
a week.
TTom
|
| 10.4099 | Hopeing the bulls can close it out in 6 | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed Jun 05 1996 14:39 | 21 |
| This series will go AT LEAST 6 games... NO way Chicago sweeps Seattle
and I think they will lose tonight (Game 1), 8 Days is a long time to
be sitting around waiting. Had utah pulled off an upset we would be
talking sweep city, but Seattle is the team to beat in the west.
Onto the Matchups... The starting 5 are so close in term's of
offense its not funny (Bulls starting 5 avg 1 more pt then seattle's
starting 5). DEFENSE, again these teams are close... So where are
the 2 sepearted, what makes everyone feel Chicago is the clear winner.
Id say 2 things... REPUTATION, Chicago (Jordan) have proven that they
can get the job done, they won 72 games and have gone thru the playoffs
with a vengence... No ONE in there right mind would have BET on chicago
sweeping Orlando... The 2nd factor that will be the difference in this
series is REBOUNDING... Wirm gives them that extra kick, the starting
5 avg's about +10 on the boards over seattle and those extra shot
attempts will be the key to the series (Its that easy).
I also personally feel Jackson is 10times the Coach Carl is and will
prove it in this series...
MairB
|
| 10.4100 | 6 won't happen | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 05 1996 14:44 | 16 |
| The only similarity to these 2 teams is that they both will prolly have 5
players on the court at the same time, although I aint guaranteeing that.
Firsted of all, Seattle has no one the stature of Scottie Pippen much
less Michael Jordan. So what you have is teh Bulls able to play at a
level above and unknown to the Sonics.
There are some scnearios that could lead to Seattle winning this series
but all of 'em require Jordan to stay off the court. The Sonics could
beat the Bulls without Jordan. But since he'll prolly play, it's a_easy
Bulls series.
If'n I were a gambling man, I'd venture a guess that the odds on a series
sweep are less than on a 6 games series.
TTom
|
| 10.4101 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove | Wed Jun 05 1996 15:06 | 3 |
|
I was feeling pretty good about this bet until Brooksie chimed
in with his near 100% fatal kiss of death.
|
| 10.4102 | ESPN is the best | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Wed Jun 05 1996 15:11 | 6 |
| The "We Are the WOrld" parody to stop traveling is the funniest
Sportcenter ad yet, and there have been lots of good ones. It was nice
to see Thw White Shadow and his Standout center Warren Coolidge in the
chorus!
NAZZ
|
| 10.4103 | great ad series | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 05 1996 15:20 | 9 |
| I agree, Nazz. It's a great parody and ad.
ESPN has gone to the nexted level with their commercials. From Charley
Steiner denying that boxing is his life until he hauls off and punches a
guy, and Gordie Howe with Olberman showing him the finer points of
hitting your opponent, including a stick shot to the groin, the whole
series is about as good as ads ever get.
TTom
|
| 10.4104 | Barkley through with the Suns? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 06 1996 15:10 | 14 |
| Did y'all catch Sir Chuck lasted night being interviewed by Costas? Seems
ol' Chuck don't care all that much for the Suns and the way they're
treating him.
Chuck basically said that he had played his lasted game for the Suns. He
said that he had no desire to play with a team that was shopping him
around all summer. Despite his efforts, he said that they were treating
him like a piece of meat.
Chuck said that he wouldn't mind playing another year or 2 if'n the
situation was right. There's a lot of rumors of Chuck going to Chicago,
maybe even being swapped for lasted night's hero, Tony Kukoc.
TTom
|
| 10.4105 | Whatever he says, assume the opposite will happen | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Thu Jun 06 1996 17:04 | 11 |
|
> Chuck basically said that he had played his lasted game for the Suns. He
> said that he had no desire to play with a team that was shopping him
> around all summer. Despite his efforts, he said that they were treating
> him like a piece of meat.
Ol' Chuck's never been known to be one to reduce something to a
mere dollars and cents business proposition...
glenn
|
| 10.4106 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu Jun 06 1996 17:06 | 3 |
|
If Barkley gets traded, Cleveland may have made a mistake by not
picking up the Phoenix pick this year.
|
| 10.4107 | | NQOS01::nqsrv242.nqo.dec.com::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Fri Jun 07 1996 21:37 | 4 |
| It seems to me like Chuck wants a ring and is doing the most expedient thing
to ensure that.
brews
|
| 10.4108 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Sat Jun 08 1996 22:08 | 2 |
|
let him buy one............
|
| 10.4109 | one more to go | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 10 1996 11:43 | 3 |
|
Didn't even bother to watch as I felt sleep was more important that watching
a troncing. No earlier risers with reports yet so I guess I'll go to the net...
|
| 10.4110 | The Woim = MVP? | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Atlanta, Home of the WS Champs | Mon Jun 10 1996 13:06 | 7 |
| The Worm's really messing with the Sonic's heads. It seems every time
he gets near a Sonic they feel it is their duty to grab, shove or
otherwise take notice of his presence. Not that he's not encouraging
it, but it seems that they seem particularly distracted by him. And if
that's a strategy, it's working.
UMDan
|
| 10.4111 | another vote for da Woim | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 10 1996 13:28 | 13 |
| >-< The Woim = MVP? >-
I heard dat!~ Of course, they'll give it to Jordan but Dennis is da Main.
The turning point of this series was Rodman's game 2 performance of 20
rebounds including a big 11, count 'em 11, on offensive.
BTW, when asked what he'd be doing between games 3 and 4, Dennis confided
that he'd be partying with Cindy Crawford, whom he gave his jersey, and
Eddie Vetter and Pearl Jam and then take a jucuzzi and have some real fun
playing with hisself.
TTom
|
| 10.4112 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Mon Jun 10 1996 13:38 | 8 |
|
Speaking of the Worm and rings in the last couple of notes. When
the Bulls win the championship Rodman is not getting a championship
ring for one of his fingers. He has already had his navel measured
and will be piercing his belly button for his championship ring.
Ron
|
| 10.4113 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Jun 10 1996 13:58 | 11 |
| I liked Rodman getting Brickowski ejected. Rodman managed to tie Brick
up and then fell down and the ref who missed everything but the
pratfall proceeds to eject Brickowski. Now in this case should the ref
be fined?
Walton had a lot to say about the role of Longley and how he's come
such a long way. He's been the real factor since the Sonics have
nothing in the middle. Now there's a team for Eric Montross.
And the aforesaid Brickowski was the only Sonic playing basketball
although the rest are trying, just failing. Shrempf is in lefi
|
| 10.4114 | I guess | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 10 1996 14:04 | 12 |
| Ya gotta remember that Dennis studied under what many consider the
all-time master of pratfalls, the Chevy Chase of the NBA, Laimbeer.
I've heard rumors that he gets the ladies to help him with the style
points. Did you catch game 2 when he landed on or about a cheerleader?
That was no accident. He set the whole thing up.
> ... Shrempf is in lefi
Then Rodman must be in righi...
TTom
|
| 10.4115 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Mon Jun 10 1996 15:33 | 18 |
|
I couldn't believe how bad Seattle played in Q1 and in other
portions of the game. They were not in sync on offense and it had
nothing to do with the Chicago defense. Turnovers from lack of
concentration killed Seattle. Seattles Assist/Turnover ratio is
pitiful as well as there 3pt shooting (25% last night).
Watching the Bulls run the triangle offense is a thing of beauty
when they are on. Its the perfect offense for the NBA and its man to
man defense. It seems to always give the Bulls, someone to pass the
ball too when double teamed. Plus, allows for plenty of good looks at
the basket for shooting.
An interesting side-note is that Scottie Pippen was drafted by
Seattle. Then traded to Chicago on draft day for Olden Polynice and
a 2nd round pick, so he never played for Seattle. In hindsight that
was a lopsided trade in Chicago's favor.
Ron
|
| 10.4116 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 10 1996 15:41 | 3 |
|
yeah but who know what type of player Pippen would have became if Michael didn't
tutor him and kiss his a$$..............
|
| 10.4117 | make that kick his a$$ | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 10 1996 15:42 | 0 |
| 10.4118 | refused to lead | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 10 1996 15:55 | 8 |
| Wail, while Jordan was living his lie that he was through with hoops,
Pippen showed that he not only couldn't but din't want to be someone that
you could hitch your wagons to.
Who can fergit his decision to sit down cause he din't like the play that
Jackson called for Kukoc.
TTom
|
| 10.4119 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 10 1996 19:05 | 14 |
| >Wail, while Jordan was living his lie that he was through with hoops,
>Pippen showed that he not only couldn't but din't want to be someone that
>you could hitch your wagons to.
Pippen is a versatile talent, but should NEVER be confused with Jordan,
Barkley, Magic, Bird, or any other player who rises under pressure.
From Xavier McDaniel's psychological destruction of him in '92 (?),
to the mentioned self-benching in '94, Pippen has shown that he'll
never be confused with Cedric Maxwell or the like.
BTW, is there any doubt that the Knicks are the only team that has
the MENTAL makeup to play the Bulls ? If they only had the basketball
talent these other teams have...
|
| 10.4120 | who's going where? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 10 1996 19:24 | 7 |
| Based just on the playoffs, the Knicks seemed the clear winner of the
second best in the east sweepstakes.
So, that must mean that Jackson will bolt the Bulls and go to the
Knicks?
TTom
|
| 10.4121 | which, I suppose, is possible... | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Mon Jun 10 1996 20:58 | 5 |
| >So, that must mean that Jackson will bolt the Bulls and go to the
>Knicks?
Not unless they recently gave Van Gundy $2M over 2 years to be Phil's
assistant.
|
| 10.4122 | stranger things have happened | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 10 1996 21:05 | 0 |
| 10.4123 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 10 1996 22:21 | 2 |
|
Starks and Mason seem like Jackson type players..
|
| 10.4124 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed Jun 12 1996 14:23 | 20 |
| Ya RODMAN for MVP seems to be getting pushed from many folks but if you
look at rodmans Rebound/Scoring avg for the season compared to the
playoffs/and finals has it improved or is he at par. Rodman is however
winning the battle of wits with Seattle and is effecting them mentally
which is playing a HUGE role in this series. Rodman himself will tell
you that there's no one like Jordan, he seems to be able to do whatever
is needed and WHENEVER its needed to get the WIN. Game 3 27pts in
the 1st half.. WOW, he just couldn't miss. IF Longley didn't draw all
those (IM NOT A STAR CENTER) fouls and got to play some decent minutes
he could develope into a top 10 center in the nba. If I had to name
the MVP right now I couldn't, if you look at whats expected and who's
gone above and beyond to get the job done Im not sure who I would pick
for MVP. Now if you look for who is the #1 most valuable player on
this team, the 1 player that if they did not play in the finals would
have made the most difference how can you not give the nod to Jordan ?
Then again with the way rodman has managed to get into the heads of
the sonics how can you not give it to rodman... Could be be looking at
CO-MVP's ???
MairB
|
| 10.4125 | the fix is already in | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 12 1996 14:28 | 9 |
| > CO-MVP's ???
Nah, your guy Jordan wins in a walk. It's a real lovefest and we all feel
good about life, ourselves and the rest o' humanity.
In honor of this title, Stern is gonna give the league to Jordan and his
agent/antichrist Falk.
TTom
|
| 10.4126 | Shame they have to play that game tonight | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Wed Jun 12 1996 15:24 | 1 |
|
|
| 10.4127 | pool ol' NBC | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 12 1996 15:32 | 8 |
| > -< Shame they have to play that game tonight >-
Poor ol' NBC. Not being able to extend the series into Sunday. I really
feel for the guys.
Meanwhile, I might catch a look or two at the game. Maybe.
TTom
|
| 10.4128 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 12 1996 16:41 | 1 |
| 10.4129 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed Jun 12 1996 16:45 | 22 |
| earlier someone asked about the bulls current roster, I think the only
current bull that was drafted by the bulls is Jordan ? I thought
Dickie Simpkins was still on the roster but can't find his name
anywhere, Im assuming he was HURT at the end of the year and not
included on the playoff roster ? I would have kept him on over Edwards
so during garbage time you could give your young guy some exposure to
playoff basketball... Im not sure how often they gone thru Longley,
Wennington and Sally but only recall seeing edwards once during the
playoffs (And that could be my imagination).
Actualy Kukoc was drafted by the bulls in 1990 but didnt play for the
bulls until 93.
Pippen was a draft Day trade with seattle, Kerr, Wennington, Harper,
Buechler, Brown, Edwards and Sally were all signed as free agents.
Bulls trade Stacey King to Minny for Longley and traded Will Purdue
to San Antonio for Rodman.
So for a one man team every player except edwards has contributed to
this year's run... :-) What a team...
MaB
|
| 10.4130 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 12 1996 16:49 | 1 |
| 10.4131 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed Jun 12 1996 19:13 | 3 |
|
In reality Shawn Kemp should be the MVP because without him Seattle would be
getting blasted by about 30 a game..............
|
| 10.4132 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 12 1996 21:03 | 4 |
| 10.4133 | Paul Westphal, new coach of USC | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:08 | 22 |
| > Nate McMillan was cleared by doctors to play but refuses to. Go
> figure...
from that classic sports source oft quoted...
And meanwhile, not only is this completely full of the brown word, Nate
really refused to take a shot to ease the pain in his back *AND* he not
only agreed to play, he actually played. And played well, well enough to
get kudos from about ever one.
In any case, I din't remember reading that they had changed the rules. I
thought it was a technical to get in the refs face arguing calls but
appartently, the new rule is unless you clean 'em a la Van Exel, no blood
no T!~ I'm speaking of course of Jordan's contemptible behavior towards
the refs. Showing the complete player that he is, Jordan had the hat
trick, getting into the face of all three of the refs.
And a tip o' the hat to the bar I was at. I din't have to listen to Bill
Walton. It was reported on the radio news that he made the statement that
you caint throw Michael Jordan outta the game. Glad I missed this crap!~
TTom
|
| 10.4134 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:16 | 1 |
| Wow, I'm stunned. Never have I seen Chicago so flat..............
|
| 10.4135 | btw, Payton doesn't sweat | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:16 | 23 |
| Well the nba finally put on a good game last night. Seattle, in
response to the mocking of Rodman came out very focused and after some
early misses became very accurate from 3 point territory with Sam
Perkins coming alive with 6 in the first half. Brickowski had one of
the great 0-0-0 games in history highlighted by an elbow to Rodman's
head.
The refs finally elected to spoil a fast paced, pure basketball effort
and seemed to be having a war between the pro and anti Jordan factions
(the latter being Joe Crawford who after elected not to eject Jordan
after the latter's tirade about a travel call when technicals has been
routinely assessed all game long for much less leading to a Walton - ??
argument with Walton saying you just simply can't eject Michael simply
because he's done what the mortals do).
Kemp was immense, needs and gets no help from the refs and is
everything the fakeman is supposed to be and decidedly isn't. Payton
is the best guard among the mortals in the nba. Jordan had the longest
period of disappearance I've seen by him this year, perhaps he is on
the take.
Shapes up to be some good basketball Friday night. Note, the Bulls
played pretty well but have to be at their best to beat Seattle.
|
| 10.4136 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:17 | 14 |
|
Tom,
Yup, the Jordan rule was invoked last night. The refs were calling
technical fouls EVERY time a player would complain about a call. There
was already about 6 or 7 technical fouls called, when MJ really gets
into the refs face about a travelling call. MJ argued more then ANYBODY
had argued the entire night, but the ref invoked the Jordan rule and
didn't give MJ his 2nd technical.
Also NBC has asked the Bulls to lose Friday nights game, so that
the Bulls can win the championship at home on Sunday during prime time
TV.
Ron
|
| 10.4137 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | wannabe figure skater | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:30 | 7 |
|
If I ever doubted tha there were special rules for Mike
that doubt went out the window in Game 1 when he and Wingate
were jockeying for position, Michael lays into Wingate with
a series of vicious elbows and the ref calls technicals on
*both* players. That's what Seattle was up against - a draw
being the best they could hope for from the refs.
|
| 10.4138 | MairB Watch, Day 1 | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:32 | 6 |
|
Guys, keep up with this Jordan Rules bashing, and we're going to have
MairB spinning like a George Maiewski-wound top...
glenn
|
| 10.4139 | How big is the fix? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 14:33 | 16 |
| > Also NBC has asked the Bulls to lose Friday nights game, so that
> the Bulls can win the championship at home on Sunday during prime time
> TV.
Makes no matter. Friday, Sunday, it's all about the same.
It's all about how much of a fix that NBC put in. They have to walk the
line cause there's a lot at stake. Firsted of all, they caint make Jordan
look stupid like lasted night. They also make the Best Team Ever look
stupid like lasted night.
But on the other hand, they shore would like a game 6 on Sunday.
This is why all these guys get paid the big bucks.
TTom
|
| 10.4140 | Refs no, Michael??? mmm maybe | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 13 1996 15:17 | 16 |
| One problem Ttom, who's getting the Sonics to cooperate? Last night
was all about one team's determination vs another team's talent. And
the Sonics have talent too. I did wonder whether the refs playoff pool
was just like the players - the same amount divvied the same way
regardless of number of games (so they'd have an incentive to get it
over with last night).
I don't subscribe to that theory. I have in the past talked about ncaa
refs being influenced but my point there is in the promotion and
selection systems and those in charge making it obvious who they want
to see in the final four and those refs doing the final four coming
back year after year if they make their masters happy.
The question of control of refs like the ncaa/leagues have vs union
protected refs and umps vs whatever the nfl has (elite amateurs) is up
in the air for me.
|
| 10.4141 | Joey Crawford should ref the rest of the games, too | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Best of luck, Marcus! | Thu Jun 13 1996 15:37 | 10 |
| Joey Crawford is my favorite NBA ref, and last night showed why. He is
the only ref who consistently takes no BS from anybody. Calling a
travel on Jordan?!?!? Rodman yaps and points his finger at Crawford -
Technical, and rightly so. Joey is one of the very few refs under the
iron thumb of head of referees Darryl (Adolph) Garretson who actually
has a personality and is not afraid to show it on the court. Next to
Jess Kersey and Dick Bavetta, he is the most personable ref off the
court and before games, since the late, great Earl Strom.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4142 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 13 1996 15:42 | 13 |
| 10.4143 | to thine own clue be true | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 15:48 | 9 |
| > get a clue, TTom. Nate was a gametime decision. ESPN radio reported
> at 3pm PST that Nate said he wouldn't play.
I suggest that you get some other sources.
A gametime decision, yes. Refuse to play, the stuff of non-greatness. And
now it's slipped to "wouldn't play".
TTom
|
| 10.4144 | "Let's see some travel calls boys" | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 13 1996 15:56 | 10 |
| Walton's whole point was that a double standard for Michael was okay.
To some extent he was backing up the ref, who I believe was Crawford,
in not calling the technical that would have iced Jordan.
Since Crawford is the one that doesn't employ the ds to the extent that
others do I'd give him slack. The play was a funny one in that Michael
started a shooting motion then continued his dribble without actually
putting two hands on the ball. It wasn't clear if both feet moved.
Travels were called quite a bit, especially against the Sonics, some a
mystery never explored.
|
| 10.4145 | we NEED an anti-Jordan, real bad | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 13 1996 16:10 | 15 |
| > Walton's whole point was that a double standard for Michael was okay.
And the rest of the free world is saying, "no it ain't". I loved it when
Marv and Goukas called Walton on the spot. They should get some kind of
award just for that.
Jordan's preferential treatment is coated all over the NBA, and it has
turned me off. Sure he's the greatest to ever play and I watch him
to make sure I *remember*. But the worship from the media, refs and
NBA officials is embarrassing. And on a related point, without another
star player to compete with him (like Chamberlain had Russell, Bird
had Magic, etc.) the NBA's future looks B-O-R-I-N-G...unless the league
somehow gets some BIG-TIME players to join the core of the Knicks, as
they've demonstrated the proper will and courage to play these guys... :^)
|
| 10.4146 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 13 1996 16:15 | 5 |
| 10.4147 | time for prayer | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 16:15 | 14 |
| What the league is prolly afraid of is when they lose Jordan fer good.
By that time, the other lesser stars of this era will either have retired
too or will be in the very latter stages of their career. Barkley, Ewing,
Hakeem, Mailman will all be about gone in the nexted couple of years.
Then what? Pray for another Magic or Bird? Or how bout as Joe is saying
another Magic *AND* another Bird?
Also, while Wilt was battling Russell, we also had the Jerry West and Big
O legacies being acted out. Nothing like that has happened in the league
since Bird retired.
TTom
|
| 10.4148 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | wannabe figure skater | Thu Jun 13 1996 16:17 | 8 |
|
I'll grant Michael "the greatest ever" title but I could
do without the little snippets of interview where he waxes
philosophic on such topics as being double teamed or Dennis
Rodman as if he were Obi Wan Kanobi discussing the mystical
aspects of the force and the wise use of its awesome power.
He is *just* a basketball player not the defender of the
twelve known galaxies.
|
| 10.4149 | required | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 16:25 | 11 |
| > Nope, they said he didn't want to jeopardize his future. That's a
> refusal.
And they was wrong.
As for Jordan pontificating, it's all part of the same fix. I caint wait
til nexted year when ESPNEWS come along. One of the things they said they
were gonna cover was pre- and post-game interviews. Then, we'll be able
to appreciate the full ennui of the situation.
TTom
|
| 10.4150 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 13 1996 17:44 | 4 |
| All I could think of last night was TTom's 100,000:1 against Sonics
taking the playoffs. For one night they looked like a TEAM that could
overcome the one-one talents of Jordan and Pippen and exploit the
weakness at center.
|
| 10.4151 | keep layin them points | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 17:51 | 14 |
| I was thinking about that, my own danged self, billte.
I've been looking around the Web for a_update but so far neither USA
Today or Sportszone is showing any series odds.
FWIW, I'm 3-1 in the entertainment arena. For the games, I had the Bulls
in #1 - winner; Seattle in #2 - winner; Seattle in #3 - loser; Seattle in
#4 - winner. I'll be going with da Bulls friday.
While I'll believe that the Sonics can win this series when I see it, I
think that if'n they win on Friday, it could make it fun. Jordan looks
like he's tired, a trend that a lot of people may hope continues.
TTom
|
| 10.4152 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Thu Jun 13 1996 20:01 | 15 |
| OK I have one question, I only watched the 1st half but can someone
send me a list of who got there 2nd Technical and was ejected for
arguing calls ??? If there was special treatment for jordan I just
want to know compared to who ????
OK Now onto the game.. Seattle took this game and took it early,
granted the 1st Technicals called on Jordan and Rodman were BOGUS
but so wern't some that were called on the Sonics but not too key
players...
I will need to check out the box scores but It looked like the sonics
didn't miss a shot in the 1st half.... Chicago is a better team then
seattle but Seattle is definatly the #2 team in the league....
MairB
|
| 10.4153 | weak | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 13 1996 20:05 | 6 |
| MairB,
OK, you've convinced us that Jordan doesn't get most favored player
treatment, not!~
TTom
|
| 10.4154 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 13 1996 20:50 | 14 |
| Wingate, Shrempf, Brickowski all had various technicals. All had to
shut up despite seemingly wierd travel calls. Every outburst prior to
Michael's resulted in a technical, some were barely outbursts such as
Wingate merely jumping when he got called.
They obviously should do away with the two technical rule since it's
purpose was to punish regardless of caste. Let them pile up the
technicals and leave it to the ref's judgement when to toss a player
since that's what happened anyway "Fans here and on tv want to see
Michael, far be it from me".
Jordan then poured on a torrent of profane abuse from the bench towards
the ref. Hopefully Michael will cool down and not order his removal
for the rest of the series.
|
| 10.4155 | not a lip reader | GENRAL::WADE | Ah'm Yo Huckleberry... | Thu Jun 13 1996 20:51 | 5 |
|
As long as MJ didn't say anythang about the ref's mama or
curse him, why should he get another T?
Claybone
|
| 10.4156 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 13 1996 21:05 | 7 |
| > As long as MJ didn't say anythang about the ref's mama or
> curse him, why should he get another T?
Disrespect...showing-up the ref. In baseball the batter and catcher
get away with a lot more if they stare out to the field while they're
*discussing* things with the HP ump. The minute they face him, they've
put one foot in the grave.
|
| 10.4157 | just like Mike | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jun 14 1996 14:07 | 11 |
| Saw a little clip from Jordan about exhibiting behavior that gets lesser
mortals throwed outta the game.
Jordan decided to use the opportunity to kick the refs while their down.
When asked if'n he thought he shoulda got the toss, he said that he
didn't especially since the ref told him he blew the call. Nice dis!~
Even staid ol' Jack Ramsay said the league has another standard for
Jordan.
TTom
|
| 10.4158 | Right Off The Bat | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun Jun 16 1996 17:42 | 5 |
| One of the main things I disliked about Jordan's treatment is
that I felt he started getting preferential treatment *as a
rookie*!!!
Ohter players had to earn it. He got it right away.
|
| 10.4159 | wait a little while | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 13:39 | 10 |
| Remember all the crying by Jordan cause in a couple of weeks his boy
David Falk is gonna give Commish David Stern a_ultimatum. Either give him
the key to the cash drawer or he's gonna shut this show down.
I wonder if'n Jordan will cry at that press conference.
BTW, the greatest team ever couldn't beat this team when Nate McMillan
was able to compete.
TTom
|
| 10.4160 | final geniis status | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 13:57 | 18 |
| Round1 Round2 Conf Final Games
-------------------------------------------------------------
WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M 7 3 2 1
AKOCOA::BREEN 7 3 1 1 1
ODIXIE::ZOGRAN 7 3 1 1
XTATIC::CHILDS 7 2 1 1
AD::HEATH 7 2 1 1
ROCK::GRONOWSKI 6 4 2 1
SHARE::DERRY 6 3 2 1
BIS1::ROOSEN 6 3 1 1 1
PHXSS1::HEISER 6 2 0 0
NPUBS::NAZZARO 5 2 2 0
HBAHBA::HAAS 5 2 1 1
PSYS::BROOKS 4 2 1 1
ROCK::HUBER 4 0 0 0
Based mainly on the fack that there were few terms and conditions, I
declare this a dead and done.
|
| 10.4161 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Mon Jun 17 1996 14:20 | 3 |
| So, does this say that Chappy is a genius?
I declare this content invalid due to a flawed premise! :-)
|
| 10.4162 | some drama | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 14:26 | 4 |
| Wail, at least this contest was a lot more interesting than lasted
night's game.
TTom
|
| 10.4163 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:08 | 1 |
| No I thought it said Chappy and I tied. Send us each a ticket.
|
| 10.4164 | I'll give you a ticket | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:11 | 9 |
| billte,
I got a $6 parking ticket from Raleigh, NC. You can have it if'n you want
it.
I also have a ticket to game 6 of the Charlotte-Knicks series about 3
playoffs ago.
TTom
|
| 10.4165 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:31 | 7 |
| So all of a sudden jordan is the only person who gets special treatment
from the refs ???? And jordan got special treatment starting in his
rookie year (I Don't Think so). LJ, Shaq, ALonzo all got the handsoff
treatment from day 1. I didn't see too many games with BigDog or
Webber so I have no idea if they got special treatment of not...
MairB
|
| 10.4166 | coddling quotient: Jordan >>> Malone | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:34 | 13 |
| Give it a rest, MairB.
No matter who got what, Jordan is the king when it comes to getting the
calls.
FWIW, Zo regularly fouled out against the Bulls which supports the
pecking order. LJ doesn't work enough to have to get calls. His latest
game has him mostly standing around where it's hard to pick up rebounds
and fouls.
You left a biggie off the list: Malone.
TTom
|
| 10.4167 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:45 | 10 |
|
I don't need no steenkin ticket!!
Breen had the Bulls in 6?? I ham em in 4.
Chap
|
| 10.4168 | yep | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:47 | 1 |
| Yep, billtehad 'em in 6 whatever that was worth in the big picture...
|
| 10.4169 | Take that Billlllllllly | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:49 | 8 |
|
Yabbut (sorry Kev) I had the Sonics and he had the Lakers. So in
typical Groaner fashion I'm proclaiming myself the winner via
tiebreaker!!! :-)
Chap
|
| 10.4170 | that's the SPROTS spirit!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 15:50 | 0 |
| 10.4171 | Ford to coach the Bucks | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 17 1996 16:21 | 7 |
| and meanwhile, da Bucks have hired Chris Ford, he of little Boston
Celtics head-coaching fame.
Dunleavy will continue on as GM, mostly cause of his contract and not
cause he's shown much ability.
TTom
|
| 10.4172 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Mon Jun 17 1996 19:52 | 2 |
|
TTom, didn't you lose a p-name bet to me?
|
| 10.4173 | The old Yugoslavia (by geography) would be competitive | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Jun 17 1996 20:42 | 13 |
| How come Derry gets showered with tickets, caps etc and for my tie with
Chappy I'm getting an old parking ticket or a stub to some Wolfpack
Soccer game from '89 or '69 or some'n. Picking Chicago, btw was easy
but Chappy, you got your points for Seattle "embedded" in your total.
Now picking Chicago to lose a pair in the finals was difficult albeit I
sort of predicted the Lakers to win the pair. So I'm willing to accept
the tie.
For a tie-breaker I'll take the under on some Olympic team coming
within 10 or less of the "Dream" team. The performance of Kemp in the
finals reduced this to a 50-50 in my mind. Now if Payton were added
I'd probably drop this prediction.
|
| 10.4175 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Tue Jun 18 1996 13:07 | 6 |
|
Kemp's not on the Dream Team. But I'll take the over.
Chap
|
| 10.4176 | not a crook | HBAHBA::HAAS | almost wanted to be a figger skater | Tue Jun 18 1996 13:56 | 16 |
| Main,
This SPROTS is a lot of stress thised morning.
So far, I've been accused of welching on a p-name bet, offering bum
prizes and stiff someone else outta her prize. And the worsted part about
it is that it may all be true.
When it comes to prizes however, the bestest prize ever offered was
turned down by one of my accusers, something about "Oh that's my night I
do something else".
OK, so anybody think I owe 'em anything, send mail and we can work
something out.
TTom
|
| 10.4177 | Olympic team in trouble sans Kemp | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 18 1996 14:34 | 12 |
| The caps in the mail.
Kemp is not on the Dream Team? The over under is down to 7. I now
suspect that a defeat and even loss of medal is possible. I do not
like that team, very thin at the Kemp type of talent. Malone as you
all know by know is an nba ref/marketing creation, not an international
talent you can count on. Stockton can't be counted on.
Shaq will have to carry them like he did in the worlds. I could put a
team together with Kemp, Payton, Camby and a few others and beat them
using international rules and refs assuming the latter is not "Korean"
quality.
|
| 10.4178 | easy gold | HBAHBA::HAAS | almost wanted to be a figger skater | Tue Jun 18 1996 14:48 | 10 |
| The day afore they chose the lasted members of the squad, Kemp missed a
plane to a game and it got some noteriety.
Face it, the committee don't like the likes of DTII. Zo, Kemp, LJ and
Coleman have assured themselves of never being invited again.
Collectively they made Shaq look mature and interested.
But have no fear. This team will rout the rest of 'em. Easy.
TTom
|
| 10.4179 | free agents, maybe | HBAHBA::HAAS | almost wanted to be a figger skater | Tue Jun 18 1996 14:58 | 115 |
| Here's the current list of potential free agents:
Here is a team-by-team list of players who could end up as free
agents:
(P-Player has the option to declare for free agency at season's end;
T-Team has option of letting the player go as a free agent)
Atlanta
Matt Bullard, Sean Rooks, Steve Smith
Boston
Junior Burrough, Thomas Hamilton, Alton Lister, Greg Minor, Todd
Mundt, Doug Smith, David Wesley (restricted)
Charlotte
P-Michael Adams, Kenny Anderson, Pete Myers, T-Robert Parish
Chicago
Jud Buechler, James Edwards, Jack Haley, Michael Jordan, T-Steve Kerr,
Dennis Rodman, Dickey Simpkins, Bill Wennington
Cleveland
Michael Cage, John Crotty, P-Antonio Lang, Dan Majerle, Donny
Marshall, T-Harold Miner
Dallas
Scott Brooks, Lucious Harris, Lorenzo Williams
Denver
Dale Ellis, Don MacLean, Dikembe Mutombo, Doug Overton, Bryant Stith
Detroit
Allan Houston (restricted), Eric Leckner, Mark Macon, Don Reid, Lou
Roe, Otis Thorpe, T-Mark West.
Golden State
Jon Barry, Jerome Kersey, P-Clifford Rozier, Latrell Sprewell, Kevin
Willis
Houston
Tim Breaux, Mario Elie, Charles Jones, Eldridge Recasner, Kenny Smith
Indiana
Antonio Davis, P-Dale Davis, Reggie Miller
LA Clippers
Bo Outlaw, Keith Tower, P-Brian Williams
LA Lakers
Elden Campbell, Magic Johnson, Frankie King, Anthony Miller, Fred
Roberts, Derek Strong, Sedale Threatt
Miami
Rex Chapman, Tyrone Corbin, Chris Gatling, Tim Hardaway, Voshon
Lenard, Alonzo Mourning, Stacey King, Jeff Malone, Danny Schayes, Tony
Smith, P-Walt Williams
Milwaukee
Benoit Benjamin, Terry Cummings, Kevin Duckworth, Randolph Keys, Lee
Mayberry, Mike Peplowski.
Minnesota
Jerome Allen, Marques Bragg, Mark Davis, Darrick Martin, Eric Riley,
Spud Webb
New Jersey
P. J. Brown, Chris Childs, Vern Fleming, Armon Gilliam, Rick Mahorn,
Tim Perry
New York
Willie Anderson, Victor Alexander, Gary Grant, Derek Harper, J. R.
Reid, Herb Williams
Orlando
Darrell Armstrong, Anthony Bowie, P-Horace Grant, P-Shaquille O'Neal,
Joe Wolf
Philadelphia
Derrick Alston, Richard Dumas, Sean Higgins, Tony Massenburg, Vernon
Maxwell, Ed Pinckney, Trevor Ruffin, Greg Sutton, LaSalle Thompson
Phoenix
Chris Carr, John Coker, Terrence Rencher
Portland
P-Chris Dudley, T-Clifford Robinson, Rumeal Robinson, T-Buck Williams,
Dontonio Wingfield
Sacramento
Byron Houston, Clint McDaniel
San Antonio
Dell Demps, Doc Rivers
Seattle
P-Vincent Askew, Frank Brickowski, Hersey Hawkins, Ervin Johnson, Gary
Payton, Sam Perkins, Steve Scheffler
Toronto
Tracy Murray, Alvin Robertson, Oliver Miller
Utah
David Benoit, Howard Eisley, Greg Foster, Byron Russell, Felton
Spencer, John Stockton
Vancouver
Ashraf Amaya, Anthony Avent, T-Eric Murdock, Chris King, Rich Manning,
Byron Scott, Jeff Turner, T-Gerald Wilkins
Washington
Ledell Eackles, Juwan Howard, Jim McIlvaine, Robert Pack, Brent Price,
Mark Price.
|
| 10.4180 | :-) | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Tue Jun 18 1996 15:37 | 3 |
|
Wonder if NJ will go after Lou Roe???
|
| 10.4181 | who's 5th bestest? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:01 | 12 |
| Ok, I think we have a consensus but we need to fill in a blank.
The opinion of SPORTS seems to be that these 4 (in some order) are All
Timers:
Magic, Larry, Russell, Jordan
OK, so who's the fifth?
Dr. J? Elgin Baylor?
TTom
|
| 10.4182 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:03 | 6 |
|
> Magic, Larry, Russell, Jordan
Kaream Abdule Jabar (sp?) was better than any of those guys.
George
|
| 10.4183 | goodun | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:07 | 8 |
| > Kaream Abdule Jabar (sp?) was better than any of those guys.
This is one of the bestest ever in SPROTS!~
A second rate choice by a third rate fan who caint even spell the name of
the guy who he claims is better'n this group.
TTom
|
| 10.4184 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:09 | 2 |
|
George, how many titles did Kareem win pre-Magic?
|
| 10.4185 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:10 | 7 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4184 by MSBCS::BRYDIE "I need somebody to shove." >>>
> George, how many titles did Kareem win pre-Magic?
Good point. He won 4 NCAA titles but those don't mean much.
George
|
| 10.4186 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:16 | 5 |
|
If I'm not mistaken Kareem won a championship with Milwaukee
before going to the Lakers.
Ron
|
| 10.4187 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:16 | 2 |
|
Er, I think the discussion was about NBA players.
|
| 10.4188 | another goodun | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:19 | 7 |
| > Good point. He won 4 NCAA titles but those don't mean much.
Quit, George, you're killing me!`
Let me splain it. Kareem played when freshman couldn't play. Get it?
TTom
|
| 10.4189 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:22 | 8 |
|
>> If I'm not mistaken Kareem won a championship with Milwaukee
>> before going to the Lakers.
Yup, on a team that included the great one Oscar Roberston,
who'd be my choice for #5 btw. The team also had Lucius
Allen and Bobby Dandridge. I was actually a bit of a Bucks
fan back then.
|
| 10.4190 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:23 | 5 |
| > Yup, on a team that included the great one Oscar Roberston,
> who'd be my choice for #5 btw.
Seconded. This is the first name that came to mind as the remaining
"All-Timer".
|
| 10.4191 | not bad, but | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:30 | 4 |
| I guess I was thinking more in terms of a team so I was sorta looking for
a forward.
TTom
|
| 10.4192 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:34 | 5 |
|
So how many titles did those other guys win without great players around
them?
George
|
| 10.4193 | Big O/Defending Jabbar | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Wed Jun 19 1996 14:52 | 24 |
| Put Magic at PF and give the point to Oscar!!!
I feel that Jabbar is maligned, by the way. His Buck teams were
simply not *that* good. He NEVER had a power forward with Milwaukee.
The Knicks would usually dismantle the Bucks by placing Willis Reed
at the perimeter offensively while Debescherre (sp?) totally out-
played any Buck for the rebound.
I think one time they called the Bucks Kareem and the seven dwarfs.
When he went to LA, the Lakers had nothing. Heck they traded so
much just to get him.
In his prime, I believe he was typically top 5 in rebounds. Top 1
(usually) in scoring. Decent passer. Intelligent player. He made
tough shots too. Such as that 18 foot hook shot against the Celtics
in Game 6. Though how Finkel outplayed him in Game 7 I'll never
know.
Sure, when he got older, the rebounds dwindled bigtime, but I truly
feel that Jabbar is unfairly maligned. Poeple seem to not want
to like him.
Tony
|
| 10.4194 | Consummate professional, no doubt, but something missing | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Wed Jun 19 1996 15:00 | 10 |
|
> Sure, when he got older, the rebounds dwindled bigtime, but I truly
> feel that Jabbar is unfairly maligned. Poeple seem to not want
> to like him.
Kareem had something to do with that, at least until he brought his
arrogance into check in his later years...
glenn
|
| 10.4195 | a brief history | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 15:07 | 23 |
| Kareem pissed people off big time when Lew Alcindor refused to be on the
Olympics.
Up until that time, it was considered a big deal to be on the team. He
was a principal part of that change.
Then he goes and changes his name, again one of the firsted on this
bandwagon.
Then he was the up and comer and a lot of fans of the "golden age" of NBA
disliked him cause he challenged the unchallengeable.
Then Kareem beat Wilt and the tide starting turning in his favor. At the
end of his career, he was a danged old crowd favorite as inidicated by
his farewell tour.
I've always like him although what he accomplished is less than what Bill
Russell accomplished. Russell threw in a_Olympic gold to go with his
NCAA titles and multiple NBA titles.
Also, as just a player, I'd have to rate him below Wilt.
TTom
|
| 10.4196 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed Jun 19 1996 15:28 | 10 |
|
Big O sounds like a winner to me......
how about worst 5 starters for a championship team?
Center: Longley
PF : Iveroni
SF : ????
SG : Ainge
PG : Kenny Smith
|
| 10.4197 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Wed Jun 19 1996 16:03 | 4 |
|
How many championships did Bird win prior to McHale showing up?
How many prior to Kite showing up?
|
| 10.4198 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 19 1996 16:32 | 1 |
| 10.4199 | lots of teams | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 16:33 | 7 |
| > how about worst 5 starters for a championship team?
Now there's a topic we should know something about.
Or how 'bout the 5 most overrated. Maybe start with James Worthy.
TTom
|
| 10.4200 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:01 | 4 |
|
Most overrated - Larry Bird. How many titles did he win before
Kite and McHale showed up?
|
| 10.4201 | deserves to be there | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:04 | 10 |
| > Why Ainge? the guy was a winner everywhere he went, including college.
1. What did Ainge win in college? His highlight was beating one of the
all-time overrated coaches and GOP presidential wannabe, Digger Phelps.
2. What did Ainge win in the pros excepted for a couple of years when he
lucked out and got to play with Larry Bird? He shore din't win nothin in
Phoenix.
TTom
|
| 10.4202 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:08 | 8 |
| re .4200,
Larry played 1, maybe 2 seasons before Mchale and Parish joined
the C's.
The same could be said about Michael Jordan, it took him 4 or 5
years to win his 1st championship and now has 4.
Ron
|
| 10.4203 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:11 | 1 |
| 10.4204 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:12 | 2 |
| 10.4205 | like I said, what's he won? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:16 | 7 |
| In the finals don't mean squat.
We're talking rings here.
Send mail to ACK about winning games.
TTom
|
| 10.4206 | Shaq to be offered 54 mil for 4 years | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:25 | 7 |
| The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the Magic are offering Shaq a $54
mil contract for 4 years in a_attempt to keep him in Orlando and outta
LA.
Supposedly, it'll start at around 10 and go up 20% each year.
TTom
|
| 10.4207 | TIC | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed Jun 19 1996 17:51 | 7 |
|
54 million for Shaq......wonder what Big Bill would make this days?????????
If LA wants him they'll get him. The league's always coddled to them why
stop now. Po Po Celts never caught as many breaks as them dam Lakers. Kinda
like the Smith and Barneys of the league.........
mike
|
| 10.4208 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Wed Jun 19 1996 18:11 | 8 |
| > If LA wants him they'll get him. The league's always coddled to them why
> stop now.
The league won't even have to pull any strings. Given the greater earnings
potential in LA, I'm sure Shaq would take less money than Orlando's offer
in order to go there. That way it'd be a short drive over to the set of his
upcoming movie, and he could go over to the docks to watch the arrival of
his latest shipment of Shaq-Fu action figures from Taiwan.
|
| 10.4209 | Not everywhere | AD::HEATH | The albatross and whales they are my brother | Wed Jun 19 1996 19:02 | 5 |
|
re << Note 10.4198 by PHXSS1::HEISER "watchman on the wall" >>>
Yup those Blue Jay teams where world beaters.
|
| 10.4210 | wasn't there long enough to bother counting it | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 19 1996 19:16 | 1 |
| 10.4211 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Wed Jun 19 1996 20:10 | 5 |
| >That way it'd be a short drive over to the set of his
>upcoming movie, and he could go over to the docks to watch the arrival of
>his latest shipment of Shaq-Fu action figures from Taiwan.
And shoot his weekly "Must See TV" sitcom.
|
| 10.4212 | Take The Bucks's PF | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Wed Jun 19 1996 22:19 | 10 |
| I believe the Bucks PF in their championship year was a guy
by the name of Donnie Smith. It might have been Curtis Perry.
Either way, I *know* that whoever he was, he was not a vital
cog on the team.
The only really good PF they ever had was David Meyers who
came via the Alcindor trade and who quite a few years later
out of religious convictions.
Vinnie Baker's a decent PF though!
|
| 10.4213 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 20 1996 13:26 | 1 |
| Has a dominant PF ever been the KEY player on a championship team ?
|
| 10.4214 | some | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 20 1996 13:53 | 7 |
| What position is Larry said to play? Both he or McHale were keys.
The Big E got a ring with Washington. The year Walton won, they had that
guy who practically invented the term power forward but, because of too
much KP lasted night, my brain cell that holds that data is off-line.
TTom
|
| 10.4215 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Thu Jun 20 1996 14:07 | 13 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4214 by HBAHBA::HAAS "more madness, less horror" >>>
>What position is Larry said to play? Both he or McHale were keys.
Larry was the shooting (and passing) forward, Maxwell/McHale were the
Power Forwards.
One interesting thing I noticed about Larry was that when the Dream Team
starting 5 were on the floor, Jordan, who was the 2nd guard, would often take
off up the floor while Larry would act more like a guard helping Magic bring up
the ball.
George
|
| 10.4216 | and another one | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 20 1996 14:10 | 3 |
| Wail, whatever they did, it was called by Magic.
Maurice Lucas. The brain cell burst...
|
| 10.4217 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 20 1996 14:22 | 7 |
| >What position is Larry said to play? Both he or McHale were keys.
Hmmmm. I never thought of Bird as a PF.
Taking this further, historically, what position had the KEY player
more than the others ?
|
| 10.4218 | in the middle | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 20 1996 14:29 | 8 |
| What I was trying to say Joe was that if'n Bird was SF then McHale was PF
and so he'd be one PF who was a key.
Historically, the center prolly has been the biggest key. Russell,
Kareem, Wilt, Walton, Willis Reed have all been the main main at one time
or another.
TTom
|
| 10.4219 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu Jun 20 1996 14:42 | 2 |
|
Marc Ivaroni!
|
| 10.4220 | | NQOS01::nqsrv340.nqo.dec.com::may_br | BRUCE MAY | Thu Jun 20 1996 17:09 | 7 |
|
Silas was a key on the '70's Celtics teams. Curtis Perry was a pretty good
rebounder/defender with the Bucks. Had to be, as you never saw Kareem in the
middle mixing it up on rebounds he'd rather steal the rebounds from the
guards.
brews
|
| 10.4221 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 20 1996 17:12 | 1 |
| I guess I should replace the word KEY with STAR.
|
| 10.4222 | Toughest omissions: Adrain Dantley, Kevin McHale, Dave Bing, Bernard King | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Thu Jun 20 1996 18:15 | 28 |
| Top ten NBA players of all time:
1) Bill Russell
2) Magic Johnson
3) Michael Jordan
4) Larry Bird
5) Oscar Robertson
6) Jerry West
7) Elgin Baylor
8) John Havlicek
9) Julius Erving
10) Bob Pettit
And the next ten:
11) Wilt Chamberlain
12) Nate Thurmond
13) Bob Cousy
14) Willis Reed
15) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
16) George Gervin
17) Dave Cowens
18) Elvin Hayes
19) Bob Lanier
20) Wes Unseld
NAZZ
|
| 10.4223 | good, to a point | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 20 1996 18:22 | 5 |
| I like the list but shudder at the thought that you was serious bout
omitting Adrian Dantley.
Dantley was so good that Pistons trade him and then they win a couple of
rings...
|
| 10.4224 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | Loose with rhythmic syncopations | Thu Jun 20 1996 18:24 | 7 |
|
NAZZ,
Is this your personal list or from some sports rag? It looks a little
tilted toward the Celtics. I would have picked Cousy before Havilcek.
|
| 10.4225 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jun 20 1996 19:33 | 3 |
| C'mon Nazz, you can't include Reed if you don't have Clyde Frazier.
He was IMMENSE in the BIG games ! In my mind, he's perhaps the
greatest combination (PG/2G) guard ever.
|
| 10.4226 | ex | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Thu Jun 20 1996 19:38 | 7 |
|
Havlicek in the top ten and Cowens in the top twenty?
A definite Boston bias to that list. Where's Walt Frazier?
How about Moses Malone? Etc, etc, etc.
|
| 10.4227 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 20 1996 19:54 | 21 |
| Where's Rick Barry, Nazz? I can't find the list I put in a few weeks
ago. Same basic list except Chamberlain essentially replaces Bird.
I'll be generous and put Bird 10th.
Russell
Magic
Jordan
Chamberlain
Oscar
Pettit
Dr. J
Walton
Moses
West
Barry
Debusschere is up there. Cousy dominated his day. Havlicek is about
#15. I'd never have Cowens without about 30 names ahead of him.
Olajuwon probably needs to be in top 10 ahead of Bird. Isaiah? I like
the mention of Unseld a Celtic KILLER of the 70s but BC beat his Cards
in the NIT in '66.
|
| 10.4228 | From a Boston perspective (the only one I have!) | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Thu Jun 20 1996 21:04 | 11 |
| This is definitelt a personal list. A bit of Celtics bias perhaps, and
for some reason I completely forgot about Olajuwon, who should be
around #12 or 13.
I thought about Frazier (and D.J. for that matter), but neither could
shoot well enough for me to include them. Dantley was unique, which is
why I thought long and hard about him. Bernard King spent too much
time on the injured list. DeBusschere was a very good player, but not
great - the Horace Grant of his day. Rick barry sucked - 'nuff said.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4229 | Bird is #1 on my list | FABSIX::D_HORTERT | | Fri Jun 21 1996 06:41 | 10 |
| I'm certainly not "Celtic biased" (I'm from Pittsburgh), and I think
Larry Bird > Magic Johnson. I think a players greatness should be
mostly based on their ability to deliver when their team needs it.
When you think of "clutch" players, names like Bird, Jordan, Miller,
Kareem, and Isaiah Thomas come to mind. Magic was a great "all-game"
player but when the game is on the line, nobody could deliver like
Larry Bird.
D.J.
|
| 10.4231 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Fri Jun 21 1996 11:21 | 13 |
| Two different jobs. Magic hit a few key shots and missed a few no doubt just
like Bird but Magic's job was to deliever to setup so in the crucial moments
of game he finds Worthy for a jam (his best shot) or Kareem in the post for the
hook is of equal importance to Bird hitting a 3 imo. Plus despite his work
ethic over the careers Magic's game evolved more. Fortunately for Bird his game
was all together from the moment he walked on the court in the NBA but Magic
learned to hit 3's and the baby hook etc etc. LA had a lot of stars to play
along side him, but Birdcertainly wasn't hurting for a supporting cast either
so I go with Magic>Bird also although it pains me to no end. Also one last
thing about Magic Johnson he was without a doubt the biggest crybaby this side
of Rick Barry the league has ever seen............
mike
|
| 10.4232 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Fri Jun 21 1996 12:51 | 5 |
| > Where's Rick Barry, Nazz?
Where he belongs - off the list.
The next time Rick Barry plays defense will be his first.
|
| 10.4233 | some others | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jun 21 1996 13:23 | 13 |
| Rick Barry is way up there on my list of assholes with rings.
Walt Frazier was one of the bestest guards I ever seen.
What's good about opining on Magic, Larry and Jordan is that they played
three different position and none of 'em have a serious challenger to
being the bestest ever at their position, IMHO, natch.
And I always thought that Jerry West > Big O. Overall as careers it's
pretty even but Jerry had a phenomenal playoff career. And the logo for
NBA aint Big O!~
TTom
|
| 10.4234 | Gamers | MUNDIS::SSHERMAN | Clean living and a fast outfield | Fri Jun 21 1996 14:06 | 30 |
| > When you think of "clutch" players, names like Bird, Jordan, Miller,
> Kareem, and Isaiah Thomas come to mind. Magic was a great "all-game"
> player but when the game is on the line, nobody could deliver like
> Larry Bird.
I don't know, DJ, remember Johnson dominating a seventh game as a center
when Abdul-Jabbar was hurt--and as a rookie, to boot. If that wasn't a
clutch performance, what is?
Anyway, I rank Elgin Baylor, Julius Erving, and Connie Hawkins all ahead
of Bird, despite the low number of titles among them. Hawkins, of course,
played most of his career in the ABA, but was still breathtaking when he
got to the NBA. I was at the Forum the night the Lakers broke the Knicks'
record of 18 straight wins, but they had to go to OT to do it, mostly
because Connie made the fourth quarter his own personal possession to
erase a 15-or-so-point deficit. Best basketball game I ever attended.
As for West v Robinson, well, I've been back and forth on this one in my
mind since they retired. I lived in LA during West's career and back then,
I always felt there were more dimensions to Oscar's game (at least one
season in his career, he *averaged* a triple double), but Jerry was just
plain unstoppable on offense. Over the years, as the memories grow more
and more fuzzy, I've thought this and thought that, but I've pretty much
come back to where I was at the beginning. I still can't choose between
them; it would depend on what your other guard can do. To play alongside
Magic, I'd take West. To play alongside Jordan, I'd take the Big O.
I won't even mention Russell and Chamberlain ;*)
Steve
|
| 10.4235 | another vote for Connie Hawkins | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jun 21 1996 14:18 | 3 |
| Connie Hawkins was one of the all time NBA talents.
TTom
|
| 10.4236 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Fri Jun 21 1996 14:44 | 10 |
| > I thought about Frazier (and D.J. for that matter), but neither could
> shoot well enough for me to include them.
I don't remember Frazier missing many of those jumpers in the lane with
the game on the line. I never thought of his shot as a weakness either.
He was a GREAT defender, had good size for a PG, and had 2G scoring ability.
I never thought of Havlicek as much of a shooter. If his *overall*
game gets him on any list of "greats", Frazier certainly belongs on that
list. I think Clyde was the best to ever wear a Knicks uniform...even
better than Reed.
|
| 10.4237 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Jun 21 1996 15:13 | 6 |
| 10.4238 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Fri Jun 21 1996 19:24 | 7 |
|
Don't think so Mike, I believe he may have had to use it more in the pros but
I believe he already possesed some skills with it.............
Steve talking about West being unstoppable all's I can say is AMEN. I used to
sit by that radio during the playoffs and pray for the guy to foul out which
he never did just like it seemed he never missed
|
| 10.4239 | Fun Musings... | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun Jun 23 1996 14:45 | 31 |
| re: .4228
Your original ommission of Olajuwon was glaring to me.
Placing Thurmond ahead of Jabbar dumbfounds me! (I will
assume it is personal!!)
I think the greatest player ever was Magic. And I always
rooted for the Lakers to lose, i.e. if bias held sway, I
would never pick him.
Mike described most of it for me, but another factor is the
incredible advantage of having a 6'9" point guard. There is
no doubt in my mind that if I started a team around one single
player, I would start it around Magic. The Showtime Lakers with
the fast break and the option for the Kareem skyhook was, in my
mind, the greatest depiction of basketball ever. Magic ran the
finest brand of basketball I ever saw. He was the engine.
I think ranking Hawkins and some of those others ahead of
Bird is silly. I remember Bird, during his prime, being just
too unstoppable offensively. The combination of chronic 3
point threat, shooting threat anywhere else, passing ability,
rugged rebounding, and mental genius puts him in the top 3
in my book. His three point abilities at times was like a
nuclear weapon. He could sometimes shoot those bombs with people
draped all over him. No one could drop the trey like Bird could.
Was Gervin in the top 20? He was tough.
Tony
|
| 10.4240 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 24 1996 11:13 | 15 |
|
Tony, I'll forgive you, cause I realize you were a bit too young to know
about Bill Russell, otherwise you'd never rate Magic #1. Throughout the
late 50 and 60's many a great player came and went for the Celtics, but
one player remained constant Big Bill. The championships say it so much
better than I can but whatever it took, being a big shot, a rebound, a
block, a dive to floor Big Bill was going to get the job done. Was he
intimidating? Ask Wilt sitting on the bench in LA in the playoffs....
No use talking about different era, different league, cause it doesn't
matter imo. Like the 80 the 60's had 3 dominate teams with a tier of
about 4 teams of challengers who could knock off one of the dominate
teams in series but not over the long haul just slightly below.
mike
|
| 10.4241 | Yup...Can't Fairly Assess "Big Bill" | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Jun 24 1996 12:14 | 13 |
| Thanks for forgiving me Mike!!! :-)
That comment had me laughing!
Truth be told I am a bit young for Russel and I simply cannot
evaluate him. I know his last year was Jabbar's first and that
is a while ago.
I remember my dad watching the NBA years ago and it seemed to
be 76'ers/Celtics an awful lot, but I was just too young to
really take it in.
Tony
|
| 10.4242 | Chuck lost in Texas? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 24 1996 14:38 | 21 |
| ditties:
Jason Kidd has told the new Mavs owners that they gotta trade either him
or Jimmy Jackson, cause Kidd aint gonna play with 'im ever again. Kidd
claims he's ready to sit out the season if'n he doesn't get his demand.
Sir Chuck is being rumored all over Texas. The latest rumor has Chcuk
going to the Rockets in a 4player deal.
Chuck and Elliot Perry go for Sam Cassell and Robert Horry.
Chuck is also being rumored as going to the Mavs for said same Jimmy
Jackson.
All trades subject change without notice. The Mavs doesn't make sense
cause Chuck claims to wanna go to a contender which Dallas aint.
And meanwhile, Zo's stock has fallen to about 13 mil but that's based on
the offer the Magic made to Shaq which Shaq aint exactly jumped on.
TTom
|
| 10.4243 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:19 | 10 |
|
Shaq being going to LA unless Disney offers him a lifetime pass good only
in Orlando. I caught his act on Nicklodeon saturday nite and it's safe to
assume that his heart is more into Hollywood than Hardwood..........
Zo would be worth the 13 million if he'd loose his punk attitude, shutup
and just play ball. He's got the skills he's the desire, he's got the
work ethic but he hurts himself too much with his 'tude.........
mike
|
| 10.4244 | agreed | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:24 | 11 |
| Definitely, Zo, like a lot of other contemporary stars, is his own
worsted enemy.
Jerry West was interviewed lasted week and he implied that he din't want
Shaq. He din't name him explicitly but he said that it would be hard to
get players to play as a team when one of 'em makes 10 times more than
the rest of 'em put together. West acquiesced by admitting that he was
not the guy who decides how much money to pay someone, that being
reserved to the owner.
TTom
|
| 10.4245 | Nate was a real warrior | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:35 | 10 |
| I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Nate Thurmond, as he was
the kind of player who gave you 100% in every game, even when he was so
injured he could barely drag his body onto the floor. He reminds me a
lot of Dave Cowens and Willis Reed in that regard. proud warriors who
would never give an inch and leve it all out on the floor. The exact
opposite of Derrick Coleman, for example. IMO, only Hakeem Olajuwon
and Michael Jordan of the contemporary pros have that same kind of
attitude, and that's why they both have rings.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4246 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:35 | 4 |
|
If Dallas is really shopping Jackson, Cleveland should jump all over
that. They can offer both first rounders and a player. Jackson would
probably like to play in Ohio again.
|
| 10.4247 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:38 | 10 |
| I think disliking Rick Barry is pretty universal. Disparaging his
basketball talent seems to be a local thing. The closest comparison is
Dr. J but the difference is the shooting ability.
If you want to move Bird up I'd do it for defensive rebounding ability
and a winning persona. I've always stuck with Russell, Magic as 1,2.
Jordan gets #3 because he's one of the top defenders of all time. I'd
listen to anyone who puts McHale in the top five and ahead of Bird.
How many championships did Havlicek have in all? 9?.
|
| 10.4248 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:44 | 6 |
| > I think disliking Rick Barry is pretty universal. Disparaging his
> basketball talent seems to be a local thing. The closest comparison is
> Dr. J but the difference is the shooting ability.
Thanks, Bill. I've been having a bad day, and really needed the laugh.
|
| 10.4249 | voting | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:50 | 12 |
| re: Barry
Hate 'im!~ I caint think of a contemporary that I dislike as much. He was
no where near as good a Jordan so that doesn't fit. He's better than
Jimmy Jackson, Derrick Coleman and Cedric Ceballos. I might need some
help here.
re: Nate Thurmond
Love 'im!~ He's Zo without the mouth.
TTom
|
| 10.4250 | Why Thurmond rates so high - by the numbers | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:51 | 21 |
| Check out Thurmonds points and rebounds averages after his rookie
season for the next 11 years with the Warriors:
year PPG RPG
1964-65 16.5 18.1
1965-66 16.3 18.0
1966-67 18.7 21.3
1967-68 20.5 22.0
1968-69 21.5 19.7
1969-70 21.9 17.7
1970-71 20.0 18.8
1971-72 21.4 16.1
1972-73 17.1 17.1
1973-74 13.0 14.2
His last three years were as a backup in Chicago and CLeveland, but his
record for that ten year period is unmatched in NBA history, except for
Wilt and Russell. Abdul-Jabber, for example, never averagaed as high as
17 rebounds per game in a season; Nate did it for seven straight years.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4251 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Mon Jun 24 1996 15:52 | 10 |
|
The difference between Dr. J and Rick Barry was the
difference between Pat Boone and Miles Davis. That and
about 30" in verticle leap.
As for Nate Thurmond, I was a young basketball junkie
in that era and devoured every basketball magazine avail-
able. Whenever a center in that era was asked who played
them toughest, Nate Thurmond was just about the consensus
choice.
|
| 10.4252 | Who's Who? | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Jun 24 1996 19:39 | 11 |
| Tommy,
So which one compares to Pat Boone and which one to Miles
Davis?!!!
Man, I didn't realize Thurmond was *that* tough. He did
look like about the strongest basketball player I ever saw.
Jabbar said he was the toughest to play against.
Tony
|
| 10.4253 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Mon Jun 24 1996 19:53 | 8 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4252 by YIELD::BARBIERI >>>
> So which one compares to Pat Boone and which one to Miles
> Davis?!!!
Should be easy, just check for white shoes.
George
|
| 10.4254 | stay tuned | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 14:31 | 11 |
| Here's a goodun.
Vlade Divac and Anthony Peeler and the Laker #24 pick to Milwaukee for
Big Dog and #4. Lakers take Camby (assumed to now be behind Abdur-Rahim.
It puts the lakers about $10 mil under the cap, and presto, Shaq comes to
town.
I've heard stranger.
|
| 10.4255 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 25 1996 14:35 | 9 |
| >I've heard stranger. (re Big Dog and #4 for assorted garbage)
I haven't.
Personally any team that passes on Camby is absolutely inane. If any
of this draft analysis has a ring of truth and a sane mind like
McHale's picks up Camby to team with Garnett then that puts them at
about 15:1 for the whole shebang.
|
| 10.4256 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Tue Jun 25 1996 14:42 | 16 |
| >Vlade Divac and Anthony Peeler and the Laker #24 pick to Milwaukee for
>Big Dog and #4.
WHY would the Bucks agree to this trade? Divac is no spring chicken, and
not all that great, I have no idea about Peeler, and they give up Robinson
and move down 20 spots.
>If any
> of this draft analysis has a ring of truth and a sane mind like
> McHale's picks up Camby to team with Garnett then that puts them at
> about 15:1 for the whole shebang.
Bill, I have *got* to get me some of what you're taking.
Who would be getting Garnett and Camby the ball? And who would Camby's
backup be when he's drawing all these rookie fouls?
|
| 10.4257 | still could happen | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 14:42 | 18 |
| Wail, let's not fergit that there's two games being played here.
The firsted is the draft which comes to a haid tomorrow night.
The seconded is the free agent merry go round which never ends.
And the two are intertwined.
On July 1, all them free agents become free if'n they're not signed afore
then. At that point the teams know fer sure where they stand against the
cap. For instance, ever indication is that the Bugs will cut Kenny
Anderson free. They've bought out Chief and Michael Adams. On July 1,
they'll be somewhere in the 5-6 mil range under the cap.
But what if'n they trade away Glen Rice afore the draft. Now they're
about 10 mil under.
So weird player movements and swapping picks is par for the course.
TTom
|
| 10.4258 | too bad | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jun 25 1996 15:13 | 4 |
| 10.4259 | or after the Olympics | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 15:20 | 13 |
| Mike,
I keep hearing that the league won't pull a lockout until after the
Olympics. It wouldn't look good for the league to be in the middle of a
labor dispute while its stars kick the sheet outta the world's starving
athletes. There is a possibility that some of these guys could drop out
if'n a lockout is called, too.
The other added feature is that it allows the Davids that be, Stern and
Falk to strike a deal that makes both of 'em millions and that's the
point anyway.
TTom
|
| 10.4260 | gettin ready for that there lockout | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 15:32 | 63 |
| _________________________________________________________________
HIGH COURT ACCEPTS RULING THAT NBA CAN IMPOSE WORK RULES
__________________________________________________________________________
Copyright © 1996 Nando.net
Copyright © 1996 The Associated Press
WASHINGTON (Jun 24, 1996 1:29 p.m. EDT) -- The Supreme Court let stand
a lower court ruling that said National Basketball Association teams
can jointly impose work conditions on players when contract talks
reach an impasse.
The court, without comment, turned down today the players' argument
that the ruling gives team owners an incentive to force bargaining to
an impasse so they can impose conditions.
Last week, the court ruled in a similar case involving the National
Football League that unionized workers cannot file antitrust lawsuits
against employer groups for imposing salaries after bargaining talks
reach impasse.
The court said that decision applied not only to professional sports
but to all industries in which unionized employees negotiate with
multiple-employer groups.
As in the NFL, the 27 NBA teams bargain as a unit in negotiations with
the National Basketball Players Association.
Negotiators for the NBA and its players union are to meet Tuesday and
try to resolve differences that have delayed agreement on a six-year,
$5 billion contract ratified by both sides before the start of the
1995-96 season.
During contract talks in June 1994, the NBA asked a federal court to
rule that its teams are shielded from antitrust lawsuits if they
jointly impose working conditions in case of deadlocked talks. Federal
labor law covers union contracts, exempting them from antitrust laws.
A federal judge ruled for the NBA, and the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of
Appeals upheld the ruling. The exemption from antitrust lawsuits
continues after an agreement ends and a multiple-employer group
unilaterally imposes new work rules, the appeals court said.
The NBA and players' union reached a six-year contract agreement last
year, but legal disputes over the agreement continue.
The league has accused several agents and union attorneys of trying to
interfere with the agreement. The players' union has filed a federal
lawsuit accusing the NBA of failing to live up to parts of the pact.
In the appeal acted on today, the players' lawyers said the 2nd
Circuit court erred in ruling the NBA would be shielded from antitrust
claims if it imposed working conditions without agreement by the
players.
Federal labor laws are intended to enhance workers' right to unionize,
the appeal said, adding that the 2nd Circuit court's ruling encourages
employers to "propose their toughest terms, to stonewall until impasse
and then to impose those terms of employment."
The case is Williams vs. National Basketball Association, 95-137.
|
| 10.4261 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 25 1996 15:35 | 8 |
| Roland I'm thinking in terms of sheer wingspan and defensive intensity.
In terms of the typical nba january regular season yawner marked by
toss to Shaq backout to Scott, heave back down the court who knows.
But if a coach had these two turning on the defensive pressure..
Seattle you may have noticed got a lot of mileage from two guys, Kemp
and Payton.
|
| 10.4262 | Sounds Awful | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Jun 25 1996 16:51 | 8 |
| Bill,
You're simply too high on Camby.
The Buck trade sounds like complete crap from my perspective
(a Buck's fan).
Tony
|
| 10.4263 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 25 1996 16:57 | 11 |
| Tony, I don't want to leave any doubt on where I stand on Camby. I
think he's one of the unique forces to hit the NBA in years; they come
along very rarely. I see him as a Shawn Kemp with more up and down the
court speed, much better offensively and able to block shots. He will
certainly have to do physical training as all nba stars do but his
instincts are unique.
Someone did rightly mention his fouling out quite a bit in year one.
The key is to simply let it happen and have him ignore the fouls.
I thought btw that Kemp should have been mvp of the playoffs.
|
| 10.4264 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jun 25 1996 17:07 | 2 |
| 10.4265 | another vote fer Kemp | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 17:11 | 3 |
| who's ol' Pete beatin up thised week?
TTom
|
| 10.4266 | interesting | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jun 25 1996 17:13 | 3 |
| 10.4267 | coulda figgered | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 17:15 | 10 |
| wimmin: the root of all evil.
Note that evil and eve are almost spelt the same.
The onliest problem I have with that Eden thing is why Eve thought she
needed that ol' snake.
Caint live with 'em, pass the beer nuts.
TTom
|
| 10.4268 | Another Celtics-Mavs deal??? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Tue Jun 25 1996 18:16 | 4 |
| Somebody here said Kidd to the Celtics for David Wesley and the #6
pick. I'd do that in a heartbeat!
NAZZ
|
| 10.4269 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Jun 25 1996 18:36 | 2 |
| And if I was Dallas I'd move just as fast. I agree, though, M.L. jump
on it but get Dallas number 2 those low 30s have some stickers.
|
| 10.4270 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Tue Jun 25 1996 18:39 | 9 |
| >Vlade Divac and Anthony Peeler and the Laker #24 pick to Milwaukee for
>Big Dog and #4. Lakers take Camby (assumed to now be behind Abdur-Rahim.
>It puts the lakers about $10 mil under the cap, and presto, Shaq comes to
>town.
How does taking Glenn Robinson's contract, in place of Divac and Peeler,
get the Lakers $4M lower in the cap figures ?
|
| 10.4271 | consider the source | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jun 25 1996 18:42 | 9 |
| I gotta quit reporting rumors without all the facks :-(
What I read was a couple of articles and got them all intermingled.
The onliest way the deal gets Lakers the cap room is if'n they just
unload Vlade and Peeler.
All this stress about the NBA draft, Q5, TFSO, can vs bottles is really
getting to me. I need to go home and work on my tan...
|
| 10.4272 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Wed Jun 26 1996 12:24 | 9 |
| Frailty, thy name is woman.....
One of the biggest pleasures I have these days is trying to help my single
buddies pick up wimmins. All of the thrill of the hunt without any of the
nerves or bullsh*t that happens afterwards....
What does this have to do with basketball? How should I know? I just work
here....
|
| 10.4273 | going through hoops | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 26 1996 14:31 | 6 |
|
BEAUTY, n. The power by which a woman charms a lover and
terrifies a husband.
_The Devil's Dictionary_ by Ambrose Bierce
|
| 10.4274 | Payton and all but logo | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 26 1996 14:55 | 14 |
| And back to the NBA, it looks like Gary Payton and not Shawn Kemp will be
added to the so called Dream Team.
And meanwhile, the labor discussions are whatcha called stalled.
Supposedly there was a number of issues that the union wanted to add to
the collective bargaining agreement from lasted year. The league and the
union have settled most of 'em.
However, one or the unresolved issues is a_agreement on how much the
league should pay the union for the commercial use of its logo!~
Not that's a_issue worth shutting the league down for...
TTom
|
| 10.4275 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 26 1996 16:11 | 7 |
| 10.4276 | shoulda | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 26 1996 16:22 | 10 |
| Kemp and Payton shoulda been on the team in the firsted place.
My copy of KJV says that "favour" is deceitful...
And a little bit earlier is says:
31:3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which
destroyeth kings.
I wonder if'n they was talking 'bout Elvis and Richard Petty...
|
| 10.4277 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jun 26 1996 16:50 | 6 |
|
I wouldn't have a problem if they took 12 new players each
time for the Olympics. Kemp already has his gold medal, let someone
else enjoy the Olympic experience and win a gold medal.
Ron
|
| 10.4278 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Wed Jun 26 1996 16:54 | 7 |
|
Just for basketball or for all Olympic sports?
I say send the best talent in each sport each time. That's what all the
other countries do.
George
|
| 10.4279 | agreed, sorta | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jun 26 1996 16:55 | 10 |
| Ron,
Kemp was on the DT that went to the worlds not to the Olympics. It would
be new for him.
But I agree about the other guys, like Malone, Stockton, Pippen, and
especially David Robinson who's already been to a couple although he like
to forget about the firsted time and the bronze medal.
TTom
|
| 10.4280 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 26 1996 17:17 | 9 |
| 10.4281 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Wed Jun 26 1996 17:23 | 8 |
| RE <<< Note 10.4280 by PHXSS1::HEISER "watchman on the wall" >>>
> btw - Isaiah 3 (especially verse 12) has some interesting things to say
> about the effects of Proverbs 31:3.
Isaiah Thomas?
George
|
| 10.4282 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Wed Jun 26 1996 17:46 | 7 |
| >> btw - Isaiah 3 (especially verse 12) has some interesting things to say
>> about the effects of Proverbs 31:3.
>
> Isaiah Thomas?
No, Isaiah "J.R." Rider...
|
| 10.4283 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 26 1996 18:07 | 1 |
| 10.4284 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Wed Jun 26 1996 18:20 | 9 |
| NAS?
New American Standard?
North American Standard?
|
| 10.4285 | You say "tomato"... | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Wed Jun 26 1996 18:29 | 8 |
| > Mr. Thomas and Mr. Rider both spell their names "Isiah" not "Isaiah."
Yes, but in order to attribute the quote to them, their names had to be
misspelled.
Hope this helps :-)
-Roland
|
| 10.4286 | bingo! | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jun 26 1996 18:29 | 1 |
| 10.4287 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Thu Jun 27 1996 12:34 | 8 |
| >
> >New American Standard?
>
I'm not really up on Bibles. I have a King James because to me the language is
beautiful and it's what I heard as a kid.
What's the difference with NAS? Just plain language, sort of?
|
| 10.4288 | lockout looming | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 27 1996 14:55 | 19 |
| putting Jordan, Falk and the NBA into perspective:
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. - NBA and players union officials met for 4 1/2
hours Wednesday but were unable to finalize their collective
bargaining agreement. More talks are set for Thursday. ''It was a
little better than when we stopped talking (Tuesday),'' said NBA
deputy commissioner Russ Granik. ''There are still a lot of issues.''
The main issue is the union's demand that it be paid by the league for
using the players' logo. The union initially asked for $31 million but
came down to $29 million Wednesday. ''There's still a big gulf,'' said
Granik. ''We made some compromises; they made some compromises. But
you don't know if there are other demands.'' The sides reached a
tentative agreement last September following a player lockout and an
attempt to decertify the union by a group of players led by Patrick
Ewing and Michael Jordan. However, the agreement has not been put into
written form. NBA Commissioner David Stern has said if the contract
isn't finalized by midnight Sunday, the league will impose a lockout.
By Roscoe Nance, USA TODAY
|
| 10.4289 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 27 1996 16:25 | 18 |
| 10.4290 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Thu Jun 27 1996 16:34 | 6 |
| Cool.
Learn something new every day.
I was worried for a minute that it might have been that new "politically
correct" bible, but then I figured you wouldn't go in for that....8^)
|
| 10.4291 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 27 1996 16:57 | 10 |
| 10.4292 | With fun and easy chords and lyrics that you too can learn | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:00 | 6 |
|
I'm still trying to get my hands on one a them "Kontemporary Koresh"
bibles...
glenn
|
| 10.4293 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:01 | 2 |
|
And the bible has exactly what to do with the NBA?
|
| 10.4294 | the NBA-Bible conspiracy | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:13 | 1 |
| 10.4295 | just praying | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:23 | 13 |
| and there's a_excuse bible, too.
Hey this is all free form. There aint enough of us left to try to keep
things relevant, dontcha know.
As fer myself, I'm praying that they'll even play the NBA nexted year.
Right now the choices look like Falk bleeding the league or shutting it
down. I mean when you're arguing over how much to pay the union for its
logo, I don't think you're gonna be able to handle the 20 mil that Jordan
and others are gonna want.
TTom
|
| 10.4296 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:25 | 9 |
| >
>As fer myself, I'm praying that they'll even play the NBA nexted year.
>
I wouldn't miss it.
But then again that's the way TTom feels about baseball, which I like....
|
| 10.4297 | just MLB | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:33 | 14 |
| >But then again that's the way TTom feels about baseball, which I like....
Actually it's really just MLB and somewhat AAA that I don't care for. I
always like the minors and colleges. In fack, I went to a game the other
day, the local Knights played somebody and something happened and one of
the two teams won, I think.
But in the case that Jordan and Falk prevail and they shut the league
down, I'll just get more into hokey.
And speaking of college baseball, did y'all run ol' R_Rollins outta here
just cause he din't like Black Jack McDowell?
TTom
|
| 10.4298 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:47 | 6 |
| 10.4299 | come clean, now!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 27 1996 17:51 | 2 |
| OK. Who took Mike's life? Give it back, right now...
|
| 10.4300 | snarf | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 27 1996 18:11 | 1 |
| 10.4301 | those dastards!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jun 27 1996 18:12 | 0 |
| 10.4302 | R_"Tree"ROLLINS bit by whom? | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Thu Jun 27 1996 18:44 | 8 |
|
> And speaking of college baseball, did y'all run ol' R_Rollins outta here
> just cause he din't like Black Jack McDowell?
Nope. I cain't stand Black Jerk myself, the big phony...
glenn
|
| 10.4303 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jun 27 1996 19:56 | 6 |
| Mike are they saying that the KJV team used the Wycliffe bible as a
primary source? I thought that by the 16th century they had greek
sources, Wycliffe used the "vulgate" I believe.
I would prefer sticking to kjv and where it missed clearly on something
important sticking in a change close to the original style.
|
| 10.4304 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jun 27 1996 20:36 | 8 |
| 10.4305 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Fri Jun 28 1996 12:49 | 13 |
| > on the Latin Vulgate, but Tyndale did most of the work that was used in
> the KJV. He was executed for his work.
Wow. Sounds like the early prototype for digital's way of doing business!
> The NAS goes back to the Septuagint (300 B.C.) and Dead Sea Scrolls
> (100 B.C.), as well as the best Codex manuscripts (first-century A.D. -
> many from monastery on Mt. Sinai).
Might have to pick me up one of these -- to compare and contrast....
|
| 10.4306 | in kind | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jun 28 1996 13:57 | 6 |
| Mike, this things gotta be on line. I want one too. You gotta pay for
this one unlike KJV, right?
And meanwhile, supposedly one of the players the Suns are shopping around
is Wayman Tyndale. I wouldn't call him Vulgate. He seems like a nice
enough fellow...
|
| 10.4307 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Jun 28 1996 15:48 | 17 |
| 10.4308 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Fri Jun 28 1996 16:01 | 9 |
| >>
> Yeah, Tyndale was executed by the Church of Rome because they didn't
> want the commoners to have access to the scriptures. It's always been
> a religion for priests. I think he was burned at the stake.
>
Don't let the VPs find out about that. Next thing you know we'll all be
dancing on burnin' sticks.....
|
| 10.4309 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Fri Jun 28 1996 16:19 | 6 |
|
Reportedly the Toronto Raptors are trying to sign former
UMass start Donta Bright as a free agent. Bright has a nice
little game though his jumper has limited range. He takes
some pride in his D and he has a nose for the basket. He
ought to stick especially in Toronto.
|
| 10.4310 | Stern: no agreement, no free-agent signings | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jun 28 1996 16:33 | 11 |
| more on the continuing labor strife...
David Stern announced that he will ban any free-agent signings if'n the
leauge doesn't have a labor agreement by Monday.
He din't say if any other contracts could be signed, like player
re-signings, rookie signings, etc.
Sounds like a step toward another lockout.
TTom
|
| 10.4311 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri Jun 28 1996 18:26 | 8 |
|
Stern has to issue a lockout now, and prevent signings. Its the
only time of the season he has any type of leverage. MJ can't get
his 18 million without an agreement. Plus, Falk can't collect his
$, from the ~500 million in contracts his players will receive.
Ron
|
| 10.4312 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri Jun 28 1996 20:29 | 9 |
|
Just read in the Sportszone that the NBA and players associaton
has agreed on a new CBA. The players will vote on the new deal
next week. There will be an 8 day moritorium on player signings,
this gives the lawyers time to get official paperwork signed. Plus,
the NBA players association to vote and ratify the new deal. Player
signing can begin on Monday July 8th and noon.
Ron
|
| 10.4313 | good! | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Jun 28 1996 22:26 | 1 |
| 10.4314 | get ready | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jul 01 1996 13:45 | 14 |
| Falk/Jordan 2, NBA 0.
Firsted they took over the union. Now, they got the money rules where
they want it. Nexted step: hold your breath and wait to see what Jordan
signs for. Then All the other Falksters sign up big, too - Zo, Payton,
etc., et. al.
At that point, Falk will control salaries that equal the net worth of a
couple of teams.
I'm grateful, I guess, that it looks like the league will play on, albeit
with Jordan rules more established then ever.
TTom
|
| 10.4315 | Come on 20-25Mil per year... Lets not over do it. | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Mon Jul 01 1996 15:08 | 18 |
| I still don't see jordan getting 20+mil per year... Thats just
DUMB... This is going to really hurt a few team, right now the
$$$ is rolling in for some of these owners but that could all
turn around. The Jordan Contract may not be too bad it will
depend on the length of the contract and if there's a signing
bonus... (a 2Year 20Mil peryear could hurt but won't kill ya).
Now if Orlando or the Lakers offer shaq a 15+mil per year LONG
TERM (7-10Year range) that could hurt for a long time....
At one point they were saying NewYork had the most $$$ to play with
in signing a free agent away from another team (like 12M) so why
would you start at anything above that, if thats the most any other
team can offer these Big Free agents why not offer jordan a year
deal worth 30Mil (13Mil/17Mil) over the next 2 years. I hope chicago
keeps the deal down as many have said the signings start with jordan
and all the other big name Free Agents will feed off that...
MairB
|
| 10.4316 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jul 02 1996 15:02 | 17 |
| 10.4317 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Tue Jul 02 1996 15:06 | 3 |
| > "Enter Sandman" - Metallica
This would be my pick of the three...
|
| 10.4318 | need smore | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 02 1996 15:52 | 13 |
| > "Everybody Want Some" - Van Halen
Or how 'bout "Jump"
> "One Big Rush" - Joe Satriani
Not surpisingly one of your choices :-] He is big or at least fat.
> "Enter Sandman" - Metallica
I'll go with this one.
TTom
|
| 10.4319 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jul 02 1996 16:20 | 1 |
| 10.4320 | just maybe | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 02 1996 16:23 | 8 |
| it musta missed Charlotte.
Seriously, I've seen a handful of NBA games aside from across the street
and most seem to play the same ol' tired music. Is there a_approved play
list from the league or something.
How bout some peppy Green Day or the like. Maybe just let Beavis and
Butthead pick the tunes....
|
| 10.4321 | some rumors | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 03 1996 14:46 | 11 |
| today's rumor and a re-birth of yesterday's.
Gary Payton claims he has been made a_offer from Houston and it's serious
enough to have him contemplating moving to the Lone Star state.
Meanwhile, Sir Chuck is claiming that the rotate-right is gonna happen
with Sam Cassell and Robert Horry going to Denver, Dikembe Mutombo going
to the Suns and Chuck hisself going to the Rockets. In Chuck's words,
"It's a done deal."
TTom
|
| 10.4322 | Bad fvor Denver | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Wed Jul 03 1996 15:52 | 1 |
| Ain't Mutombo worth more than Cassel and Horry???
|
| 10.4323 | better'n nothing | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 03 1996 15:53 | 5 |
| Maybe, but if'n the don't do something then they get nothing for 'im.
He's unrestricted and without a re-signing, it's adios and nada.
TTom
|
| 10.4324 | Mutombo is overrated | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Wed Jul 03 1996 16:18 | 9 |
| Mutombo is 30 and his game has never improved offensively. Seems to be
a bit of a whiner, too. Of the free agent centers, I like Zo better
than him, just for Zo's work ethic.
Horry and Cassell are young, very good, and most likely will continue
to get better. This is not a bad deal for the Nuggets (unlike their
previous two deals).
NAZZ
|
| 10.4325 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 03 1996 17:28 | 8 |
| 10.4326 | ya got him | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 03 1996 17:48 | 9 |
| Mike,
Ya got Sir Chuck under contract for 2 years.
No way he can leave without getting someting. You might get LJ, you might
get some draft picks, but it aint gonna be nothing.
As for lowering your value by running your mouth, remember this is all
about marketing and when Chuck speaks, ever body listens...
|
| 10.4327 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 03 1996 18:00 | 16 |
| 10.4328 | sounds about right | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 03 1996 18:17 | 11 |
| This is rich.
Blaming Chuck for losing to Jordan and Hakeem.
Yeah, he was lousy and if'n it weren't for him all those other proven
winners like KJ and the like woulda won it.
So much for thanking him for carrying the whole team in the firsted
place. BTW, how far would they have gone without him?
TTom
|
| 10.4329 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 03 1996 18:21 | 7 |
| 10.4330 | OK, then\ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 03 1996 18:27 | 7 |
| OK, I see what you're saying.
> Without him, they wouldn't have been in position to win it.
Which was my point.
TTom
|
| 10.4331 | | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Wed Jul 03 1996 21:31 | 11 |
| The nuggets have to do something, even though Horry is not the player
he thinks he is. Cassell is good at times, but screws up too. He's
really not much better, if at all, than Rose.
Mutumbo is excellent at defense, but his offense lacks, and he is one
of the leagues biggest babies. I wouldn't mind seeing him stay with
denver as long as he quits acting like he's the best. If he goes,
which is most likely, then Zo would be a good replacement play wise,
but again, he got a big head.
Tim
|
| 10.4332 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 03 1996 21:59 | 4 |
| 10.4333 | | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Wed Jul 03 1996 23:33 | 1 |
| Trade one whiner for another;-)
|
| 10.4334 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Thu Jul 04 1996 02:22 | 5 |
|
re: .4333
Using GM#3 (adjusted) "just because player whines, that doesn't make
him a whiner"
|
| 10.4335 | NBA free agent | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 13:51 | 23 |
| Today is the day that the fun starts.
The moratorium on free agent signings will be lifted at noon today.
I caught the last part of _Trading Places_ lasted night. This afternoon,
the league will look a lot like the commodities exchange floor, littered
with rejected and re-sold offerings.
Shaq had a good quote on Sportscenter. He said that ever one knows that a
Benz is worth more than a beamer so when Zo signs for 15 million, Shaq is
gonna cost a lot more.
Zo may not get 15 million but he is one of the players that sorta
controls his own destiny. So does Shaq. They are in their option year
where they can do pretty much what they want about entertaining offers.
Several other notables are in same position such as Juwan Howard and
Horace Grant, who's no doubt waiting to see what Shaq does afore he jumps
back on the Magic bandwagon.
Of course, the big winner is David Falk who has more than his fair share
of gravy trains, including his airness hisself.
TTom
|
| 10.4336 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Tue Jul 09 1996 13:56 | 4 |
| >Horace Grant, who's no doubt waiting to see what Shaq does afore he jumps
>back on the Magic bandwagon.
Is this the same Horace Grant who was going to "teach the Magic how to win"?
|
| 10.4337 | that be the one | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 14:26 | 13 |
| Yep. The said same Horace.
He was the power forward on the Magic team that got swept lasted year by
the Rockets and thised year by the Bulls.
It's hard to tell who was the better team but it's easy to figger out
that the Magic certainly weren't the champs.
FWIW, thinking back on the Houston series with Hakeem, if'n Shaq thinks
he's a mercedes compared to Zo, I guess Hakeem is a_Indy car. I have this
distinct recollection of Shaq looking real bad next to his opponent.
TTom
|
| 10.4338 | A lot of questions will be answered by Friday | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Tue Jul 09 1996 14:36 | 11 |
| This is gonna be a fun week! There are lots of questions to be
answered: Will Shaq go to LA? Will Howard get away from the Pistons?
Will the Knicks make a big move on Alan Houston? Does Reggie Miller go
back to Indiana? Who does Pat Riley get (Miami has tons of dough to
spend)? Who will the Celtics sign to play center? How much does MJ
sign for? If Shaq goes, does Horace make good on his threat to leave?
And if Shaq and Horace both leave, won't it be great to see Orlando go
36-46 next season? ;-)
NAZZ
|
| 10.4339 | a couple of lucky picks | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 14:47 | 16 |
| > And if Shaq and Horace both leave, won't it be great to see Orlando go
> 36-46 next season? ;-)
The irony of that is if'n this happens, then they will have flip-flopped
with Minnesota in status. The Magic may be merely two lucky lotteries
better'n the Twolves.
The onliest reason Grant came was cause they had Shaq. Penny may have
possibly been a_influence as well.
And speaking of lucking out with the picks, the Bugs are about in the
same boat. LJ and Zo just happened to have been a little better'n Luc
Longley and Christian Laettner. Like it looks for Charlotte, neither of
these guys stuck around, too.
TTom
|
| 10.4340 | Let the grab bag begin | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Tue Jul 09 1996 14:50 | 11 |
| >> And if Shaq and Horace both leave, won't it be great to see Orlando go
>> 36-46 next season? ;-)
I think you are being too kind there Nazz!
Losing 40% of your starting lineup will decimate the Magic,
leaving them with only Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, and
Shaq's best freind Dennis Scott. Why do I hope that Brian Shaw
has a long term contract with them? :-)
Vinny
|
| 10.4341 | | PHHSS1::DFAUST | Bad Things, man... | Tue Jul 09 1996 17:10 | 6 |
| Nobody is going anywhere just yet.... According to ESPN Radio, the NBA
has imposed a lockout on the NBA Players Assoc., because of
disagreements on the new contract.
Dennis Faust
|
| 10.4342 | Sportzone says "Lockout" | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 17:27 | 68 |
| _________________________________________________________________
ESPNET SportsZone | NBA
NBA LIFTS LOCKOUT; SIGNINGS CAN BEGIN THURSDAY
_________________________________________________________________
* List of free agents
NEW YORK -- Hours after announcing a lockout of NBA players, the
league lifted the ban today, clearing the way for the much-anticipated
flood of free agent signings to begin Thursday.
The league and players union had worked through Monday night on
finalizing their collective bargaining agreement, but a snag developed
over $50 million in profit sharing from the league's TV contracts.
Suddenly, around 150 players, including superstars Michael Jordan and
Shaquille O'Neal and All-Stars Reggie Miller, Gary Payton, John
Stockton, Juwan Howard, Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo, were put
on hold. They had expected to begin signing at noon ET today.
Players originally were eligible for free agency on July 1, but final
ratification of the collective bargaining agreement caused a
moratorium on all contract negotiations until today. But the league
and the players' union were unable to complete the agreement this
morning, resulting in the second lockout in as many years.
When the TV money problem became a sticking point, the union rejected
an offer to extend the eight-day moratorium on signings, trades and
negotiations, and talks then broke off.
"We had hoped to be able to announce the signing of an agreement,"
said Jeffrey Mishkin, the NBA's executive vice president and chief
legal officer. "But in light of the union's insistence on new economic
concessions and their refusal to extend the moratorium, we had no
choice but to implement the lockout."
"We negotiated all night, literally went through hundreds of pages and
scores of issues and resolved all but one,'' said union attorney
Jeffrey Kessler. "I hope it will be worked out, but our resolve is
steadfast. It goes to the heart of the issue of getting a fair deal
for the players.''
The $50 million in dispute would come from profit sharing with NBC and
TNT, the league's two television rights holders. Once the networks
recoup the $750 million they paid for broadcast rights, the resulting
profits are shared. The dispute was that league wanted 50 percent of
those profits to be applied toward player salaries, and the union
wanted 100 percent.
"Money issues are usually open to compromise, and a satisfactory
amount of that television money will be included in the cap," Kessler
said after the agreement was reached later Tuesday. "Both sides agree
there are no more open issues."
Last summer, a three-month work lockout was imposed by the NBA. It
ended when the players voted to ratify a modified labor deal rather
than decertify the union.
The agreement remained unsigned, however, while the two sides argued
over details, and the league threatened a lockout for July 1 if the
differences couldn't be resolved. That led to four straight days of
talks that produced an agreement on most remaining disputed issues,
and an eight-day moratorium was put in place until the labor deal
could be completed.
|
| 10.4343 | Just kidding: lockout over | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 17:59 | 69 |
|
ESPNET SportsZone | NBA
NBA LIFTS LOCKOUT; SIGNINGS CAN BEGIN THURSDAY
_________________________________________________________________
* List of free agents
NEW YORK -- Hours after announcing a lockout of NBA players, the
league lifted the ban today, clearing the way for the much-anticipated
flood of free agent signings to begin Thursday.
The league and players union had worked through Monday night on
finalizing their collective bargaining agreement, but a snag developed
over $50 million in profit sharing from the league's TV contracts.
Suddenly, around 150 players, including superstars Michael Jordan and
Shaquille O'Neal and All-Stars Reggie Miller, Gary Payton, John
Stockton, Juwan Howard, Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo, were put
on hold. They had expected to begin signing at noon ET today.
Players originally were eligible for free agency on July 1, but final
ratification of the collective bargaining agreement caused a
moratorium on all contract negotiations until today. But the league
and the players' union were unable to complete the agreement this
morning, resulting in the second lockout in as many years.
When the TV money problem became a sticking point, the union rejected
an offer to extend the eight-day moratorium on signings, trades and
negotiations, and talks then broke off.
"We had hoped to be able to announce the signing of an agreement,"
said Jeffrey Mishkin, the NBA's executive vice president and chief
legal officer. "But in light of the union's insistence on new economic
concessions and their refusal to extend the moratorium, we had no
choice but to implement the lockout."
"We negotiated all night, literally went through hundreds of pages and
scores of issues and resolved all but one,'' said union attorney
Jeffrey Kessler. "I hope it will be worked out, but our resolve is
steadfast. It goes to the heart of the issue of getting a fair deal
for the players.''
The $50 million in dispute would come from profit sharing with NBC and
TNT, the league's two television rights holders. Once the networks
recoup the $750 million they paid for broadcast rights, the resulting
profits are shared. The dispute was that league wanted 50 percent of
those profits to be applied toward player salaries, and the union
wanted 100 percent.
"Money issues are usually open to compromise, and a satisfactory
amount of that television money will be included in the cap," Kessler
said after the agreement was reached later Tuesday. "Both sides agree
there are no more open issues."
Last summer, a three-month work lockout was imposed by the NBA. It
ended when the players voted to ratify a modified labor deal rather
than decertify the union.
The agreement remained unsigned, however, while the two sides argued
over details, and the league threatened a lockout for July 1 if the
differences couldn't be resolved. That led to four straight days of
talks that produced an agreement on most remaining disputed issues,
and an eight-day moratorium was put in place until the labor deal
could be completed.
|
| 10.4344 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jul 09 1996 18:01 | 7 |
| 10.4345 | USA today's guess | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 19:39 | 83 |
| since it looks like we're back in business, here's a little ditty from
USA Today predicting who's gonna do what where for how much:
DAVID DUPREE'S FREE-AGENT FORECAST
USA TODAY's David DuPree makes the following projections for the top
free agents who will be up for grabs if the NBA's moratorium on
signings ends as expected at noon ET Tuesday.
POINT GUARDS
Player, team Likely salary Likely choice
(per year) (also considering)
Gary Payton, Seattle $7M-$10M Stay with Sonics
John Stockton, Utah $3M-$5M Stay with Jazz
Kenny Anderson, Charlotte $6M Washington or New York
Tim Hardaway, Miami $3M-$4M Stay with Heat (Lakers, Phoenix or
Denver)
Chris Childs, New Jersey $3M-$4M Stay with Nets (Knicks or Hornets)
Robert Pack, Washington $2M-$3M Stay with Bullets (Houston)
Derek Harper, New York $2M-$3M Dallas, Lakers or Philadelphia
SHOOTING GUARDS
Michael Jordan, Chicago $18M-$25M Stay with Bulls
Reggie Miller, Indiana $6M-$8M Stay with Pacers (New York or Laker
s)
Latrell Sprewell, G.S. $4M-$6M Stay with Warriors (Lakers or New Y
ork)
Allan Houston, Detroit $5M-$6M Stay with Pistons (New York or Hous
ton)
Dan Majerle, Cleveland $3M Stay with Cavaliers (Phoenix)
Hersey Hawkins, Seattle $3M Stay with Sonics
SMALL FORWARDS
Juwan Howard, Wash. $10M-$12M Stay with Bullets (New York, Lakers
or Chicago)
Walt Williams, Miami $3M-$5M Lakers, N.J., Philadelphia or Vanco
uver
Mario Elie, Houston $2M-$3M Stay with Rockets (New York or Toro
nto)
Armon Gilliam, N.J. $2M-$4M Stay with Nets (Vancouver or Toront
o)
POWER FORWARDS
Horace Grant, Orlando $5M-$9M Stay with Magic (New York)
Elden Campbell, Lakers $3M-$6M Stay with Lakers
Dennis Rodman, Chicago $5M-$7M Stay with Bulls
P.J. Brown, New Jersey $3M Stay with Nets (Toronto or Philadel
phia)
Chris Gatling, Miami $2M-$3M Stay with Heat (Vancouver or Detroi
t)
Otis Thorpe, Detroit $4M-$5M Stay with Pistons (Houston or Laker
s)
Brian Grant, Sacramento $3M-$6M Stay with Kings
Dale Davis, Indiana $3M-$5M Stay with Pacers
CENTERS
Shaquille O'Neal, Orlando $15M Stay with Magic (Lakers)
Alonzo Mourning, Miami $13M Stay with Heat (New York or Lakers)
Dikembe Mutombo, Den. $10M Phoenix, Detroit or New York
Jim McIlvane, Wash. $3M Stay with Bullets (Phoenix, Philade
lphia or Minnesota)
Brian Williams, Clippers $4M Phoenix, Lakers or Philadelphia
Sam Perkins, Seattle $3.5M Stay with Sonics
Antonio Davis, Indiana $2M-$4M Stay with Pacers (Phoenix or Atlant
a)
Oliver Miller, Toronto $2M-$4M Boston (Philadelphia or Houston)
|
| 10.4346 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jul 09 1996 19:44 | 9 |
| 10.4347 | mo money | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 09 1996 19:48 | 19 |
| One of the new rules in the semi-signed agreement is to limit some of the
things that went on in the past.
The Dudley rule is out. This is where you sign for nothing for a year and
then re-sign with the same team for a balloon. There's now a limit (20 or
30% I think) to the amount of raise that anyone can get from one year to
the next.
The exception to this is that they've kept the Larry Bird Balloon Payment
rule that Ewing enjoyed thised year. They've limited it however by
forcing you to play with a team for longer than a year to get a balloon.
Speaking of balloons, LJ has one and nexted year he gets a 6 mil/year
bumper making his effective salary close to 10 mil.
As soon as this is signed I'm gonna look on the net to see if'n I can
find a copy of all them rules.
TTom
|
| 10.4348 | what if no one moves | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 11 1996 14:28 | 24 |
| This here free agent thing could be a real non-event.
Either that or all the talk is just a load of crap.
Here's what seems to be happening: ever one is gonna stay put. I'm not
saying that will happen just that this is all the talk.
You got Shaq saying he never said he wanted to go to LALA, that the money
is not that important and he just wants to stay in Orlando and win one.
Reggie Miller comes out and says his firsted choice all along is staying
with the Pacers.
And then you got the predictions from sources like that USA Today thing I
posted that looks into the future and proclaims that just about none of
'em are leaving.
Obviously, somebody's gonna switch. Miami and the Knicks, for example,
have a bunch of money and they're gonna spend it.
Maybe we need some over/under on how many big names are gonna take the
money and run.
TTom
|
| 10.4349 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Fri Jul 12 1996 17:38 | 15 |
| >And then you got the predictions from sources like that USA Today thing I
>posted that looks into the future and proclaims that just about none of
>'em are leaving.
Well TTom, there's no doubt that a FA can *potentially* get more from
his own club 'cause they are NOT restricted by the cap in re-signing
their own FA. But that's assuming the club is willing to pay that amount.
Once they do, they're going over the cap and that locks 'em out from any
other player purchases.
A lot of these guys are saying their first choice is to stay with their
original team 'cause that makes the other teams come in with HUGE offers.
These FAs know that their teams are under pressure to re-sign them, so
their offers are a given, IMO. But these guys need those big out-of-town
offers to get the maximum return.
|
| 10.4350 | like the Pacers | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jul 12 1996 17:46 | 10 |
| A typical team with that scenario might be Indiana.
They have up to three big names at stake: Reggie Miller, Antnio Davis and
Dale Davis, assuming he takes his option. I don't know what they're cap
situation is but it seems unlikely that all three will stay there.
I'm still trying to find something about the Ts&Cs of the new contract
but even if you re-sign your own players it effects the cap.
TTom
|
| 10.4352 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jul 15 1996 11:38 | 12 |
| So Dr. Jerry how do you feel this morning? Thanks to your old buddy Pat
95.5 ain't going to get you a Mercedes when he payed 105 for a beemer. Then
they get Howard to. If they hold on to Hardway and Williams look out. As
much as I'd love to see Pat fall on his face again, I like alot of the
players.
I have't seen much of Chris Childs but I hope he's got an awful lot of
heart cause he's going to need it. Ewing, LJ, Allan and McCarty don't
have any. As usual NY overpays for hired guns that ain't going to get
it done? How can they give up Mason? Knicks need a transfusion at the top.
mike
|
| 10.4353 | and we're off | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jul 15 1996 14:45 | 16 |
| Chris Childs has started a grand total of fifty some games and he gets 4
mil per. He was nothing until Kenny Anderson got traded to Jersey for
Gill. He played fairly well and certainly qualifies as a NBA point guard.
What he can do in the pressure cooker of MSG remains to be seen.
In any case, the Knicks have really upgraded themselves. They lost Mason
and got Alan Houston, Childs and LJ.
Miami is another team that really stepped up and really payed for it.
About 100 mil to both Juwan and Zo. Hardaway is expected to return as is
Williams. So is Rex Chapman, another Falk client.
Meanwhile, Jordan stays in Chicago, Payton stays in Seattle and Hakeem
signs a contract extension paltry in terms of Zo's or Juwan's.
TTom
|
| 10.4354 | Don't quite understand | CXOSI::HOGIE | | Mon Jul 15 1996 16:53 | 8 |
| What I don't understand is why some of these players (Houston and
Howard) never gave their previous team a chance to counteroffer. I
guess team loyalty is totally gone. Its one thing to get as much money
as you can, but why not give your team a chance to match it.
Both Detroit and Washington were improving teams in the league, so its
not like Charles Barkley syndrome where he wants off a team on the
downward spiral.
|
| 10.4355 | Washington dropped out | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jul 15 1996 16:59 | 16 |
| I don't know about Houston but Washington was most certainly given a
chance to match Howard's offer and chose not to do so.
In Falk's opinion, all efforts by Washington to re-sign Howard were
half-hearted. An example he gave was a full page ad the Bullets put in
the Wachington papers beggin Juwan to stay and promising to contiribute
to his charity projects. Falk said that they previously refused to
participate despite being asked by Juwan. In the end, Washington dropped
outta the bidding several millions less than what he signed for. And they
had the Larry Bird clause on their side allowing them to esceed their cap
to re-sign him.
Seattle said they'd match offers to Payton and did. The Bullets din't do
the same with Juwan.
TTom
|
| 10.4356 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Jul 15 1996 17:09 | 5 |
|
My guess is Collins wants someone who can play a little defense too. Anybody
can shoot.........
mike
|
| 10.4357 | Here's a prime example of the two superstar theory | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Mon Jul 15 1996 18:01 | 12 |
| Miami now has five players under contract, and they're already close to
the salary cap! They are now at about $18.5 million for next year,
with only those five players (Zo, Juwan, Danilovic, Thomas, and Askins)
under contract. That leaves them with about $5.8 million for the rest of
the roster. Concede a spot to Muursepp, and whet his slot in the first
round commands, and they have about $4.6 million for six players.
Say hello to a lot of journeymen. Say goodbye to Walt Williams, Rex
Chapman, Tim Hardaway (who is close to a deal with Houston), Ty Corbin,
Stacey King, Chris Gatling, and any decent free agent. Looks like a
lot of the Heat roster will consist of castoffs and CBAers.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4358 | dueling rumors | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jul 15 1996 18:18 | 8 |
| Nazz,
I keep hearing that Hardaway is all but re-signed and that Rex is part of
the big picture with Zo being another Falkster.
But we shall see.
TTom
|
| 10.4359 | Must be nice to have unlimited resources! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Mon Jul 15 1996 18:20 | 4 |
| Cain't see how they can sign both of them and be under the cap. I
expect Chapman back, since for some reason Riley likes him.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4360 | big $$$s | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jul 15 1996 18:21 | 3 |
| What I don't see is how they got the money together for Juwan.
TTom
|
| 10.4361 | Poker players | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Mon Jul 15 1996 18:43 | 30 |
| >> What I don't see is how they got the money together for Juwan.
Simple, tduring the season, trade your players for free-agents
to be ... at the end of the year you only have four or five
players under contract so you have mega-bucks to spend on a
free agent ... then sign other lesser free agents to fill up
your roster ...
>> Re: Signing them all ...
Its the "Larry Bird Exception" that allows you to re-sign
your own free agent and go over the cap ...
What Miami will do is work out the details of Zo's contract
but NOT 'officially' sign it ... then, while they are still
way under the cap, they will sign Hardaway, Chapman or Williams
or whoever else to bring them close to the cap ...
Once they have a team in place, they will have Zo sign his
contract ... which will throw them way over the cap and strangle
them for the next few years ...
Its a gutsy strategy, it could work well if they get the right
team in place, or it could destroy the team should one of their
key players turn out to be a bust (ie: LJ) ... once they have
these contracts in place they will have no room for player
movement in the future ... trades and free agent singings won't
even be a possibility ...
Vinny
|
| 10.4362 | just the money | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Jul 15 1996 18:49 | 9 |
| I shoudla been a l'il more clearer, Vinny.
I understand what you're saying about re-signings and the cap. I was just
looking at the staggering total they've committed to just 2 players.
200 mil over the nexted 7 years. That averages more than the cap right
now.
TTom
|
| 10.4363 | more of "and we're off"... | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 16 1996 12:38 | 21 |
| bunch of doings.
Mutomobo signs with Atlanta, 50 million, 5 years.
Stacy Augmon and Grant Long traded to Detroit for 4 future draft picks.
Rasheed Wallace traded to Portland for Rod Strickland and Horace Grant.
Brent Price sings with Houston, 18 million, 7 years.
And Magic offer Shaq ever thing that LA did plus 20 million for a cool
$115 mil.
BTW, I found some rules, here:
7 years is the maximum length
maximum raise is 20%
Larry Bird clause bumped to minimum of 3 years
free agents can sign with a team that renounced rights,
must wait 56 games into season,
can't exceed cap to resign free agent
All money must be guaranteed except for incentives
TTom
|
| 10.4364 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Tue Jul 16 1996 12:46 | 5 |
|
Horace Grant???
When did Portland get him? Don't ya mean Harvey Grant Ttom???
|
| 10.4365 | more data | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 16 1996 12:49 | 6 |
| Him too.
Geez!~ When did y'all get to be sticklers for details. This aint no
p-name wager, dontcha know :=]
TTom
|
| 10.4366 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Tue Jul 16 1996 14:53 | 8 |
| So shaq gets hits zo+ contract offer which would pay him about
$45,133 per DAY... but Hey MJ will get $82,417 a Day from chicago
over the next year :-)... 82K per day... What a world... I think
Shaq is trying to find a way to abandon orlando and hasn't found
it YET...
Now Im just waiting to hear on Rodman ?
MairB
|
| 10.4367 | Rodman about ready | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 16 1996 14:57 | 10 |
| Rodman's agent claims he's on the verge of a new contract.
Right now, I doubt if Shaq leaves Orlando. By staying in Orlando he gets
20 million and still can play in LA in the off season and/or between
games.
LA would definitely have more show biz contacts but who's to say how
many of 'em he won't be able to make in any case.
TTom
|
| 10.4368 | Atlanta Hawks get a clue | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Atlanta, Home of the WS Champs | Tue Jul 16 1996 15:19 | 6 |
| After all these years Atlanta goes and makes a bold move. The fans are
still reeling in disbelief that an organization other than the Braves
actually made a bold decision. Maybe the folks up the road in Suwanee
will take notice....naaah.
UMDan
|
| 10.4369 | a foundation | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 16 1996 15:26 | 12 |
| I guess watching Laettner getting slammed by Shaq was too much.
The problem with the Hawks now seems to be the offense. Where are they
gonna get the points?
And while they've added Mutombo, they lost Grant Long one of the more
underrated players in the league, IMHO.
But, at least they have the supposedly 2 hardest position filled with
Mookie at the point.
TTom
|
| 10.4370 | Can't tell the teams without a program! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Tue Jul 16 1996 15:27 | 10 |
| Did Atlanta trade Augmon and Long because they had to in order to get
Mutombo under the cap? How many #1 picks are in the four draft
choices? Do the Hawks still have enough money to sign Steve Smith?
Toronto loses Tracy Murray to Washington. Could open a spot on their
roster for Lou Roe!
Don McLean signs with the Sixers - he'll fit right in! ;-)
NAZZ
|
| 10.4371 | free at least | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 16 1996 15:37 | 7 |
| Atlanta traded 'em for the caps. Haven't seen a full description of the
picks.
BTW, Roe was cut loose by the Pistons so he's a free, if unemployed
hooopster.
TTom
|
| 10.4372 | | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Atlanta, Home of the WS Champs | Tue Jul 16 1996 15:40 | 12 |
| From the fish wrapper -
Long and Augmon traded to Detroit (to make cap room for Mutombo)
for a first round pick in 97 and 98 (unless they are lottery picks, not
sure what happens then) and 2nd round picks in 97 and 99.
They must renounce free agents Ehlo, Rooks, Jordan and Bullard (not
sure what this means either), and they released Blair Rasmussen, who
still counted towards their salary cap even though he retired 3 years
ago. They hope to re-sign Steve Smith.
UMDan
|
| 10.4373 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Tue Jul 16 1996 15:43 | 5 |
|
Roe is getting a shot from Calipari in New Jersey. Dana
Dingle is also getting a look there. Cal said that if Bright
hadn't signed with Toronto he'd be in New Jersey, too.
|
| 10.4374 | trades and stuff | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Jul 16 1996 18:53 | 10 |
| a couple more movements.
Seattle: traded Vincent Agnew to the Nets for Greg Graham, former firsted
round pick of the Bugs; renounced the rights to Frank Brickowski and
Ervin Johnson (!); re-signed Sam Perkins.
Also, the players union have a new director, Bill Hunter, a former
federal prosecutor.
TTom
|
| 10.4375 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Jul 16 1996 19:49 | 1 |
| 10.4376 | Too Much | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Jul 16 1996 20:36 | 4 |
| I hope these outrageous contracts is enough to motivate me to
abandon the NBA altogether (as a fan).
Tony
|
| 10.4377 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed Jul 17 1996 11:26 | 2 |
| I doubt it Tony, they're still the best players in the world and you are a
sports junkie........
|
| 10.4378 | another poll | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 17 1996 13:55 | 24 |
| Sportszone is having another fan poll:
Which NBA free agency deal is the most OUTRAGEOUS?
Player Pos Team Yrs $Mil $Mil/yr
Chris Childs G Knicks 6 24 4
Antonio Davis F Pacers 7 38.5 5.5
Dale Davis F Pacers 7 42 6
Allan Houston G Knicks 7 56 8
Juwan Howard F Heat 7 98 14
Michael Jordan G Bulls 1 25 25
Don MacLean F Sixers 5 15 3
Alonzo Mourning C Heat 7 112 16
Dikembe Mutombo C Hawks 5 50 10
Hakeem Olajuwon C Rockets 5 60 12
Gary Payton G Sonics 7 88 12.6
Brent Price G Rockets 7 18 2.6
Shaq O'Neal C Magic* 7 115 16.5
*projected
Feel free to add adjectives.
TTom
|
| 10.4379 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:09 | 8 |
| Well at quick glance Id say Juwan Howard ended up with the biggest
of the WHAT ARE THEY PAYING HIM contracts... 14M per year ??? I
think Miami could have spent that 14M per year a we bit wiser....
Zo's not worth what he got, neither is Shaq but there not a surprise
to me like the Howard deal was ?
MaB
|
| 10.4380 | they keep on signing | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:14 | 10 |
| I voted for Don MacLean. Paying him anything, even the league minimum, is
outrageous.
I shoulda added Kenny Anderson to that. He signed for 7 years, 50 mil.
And Steve Smith re-signed with the Hawks at 45 mil for 7 years.
Some other signings sans terms: Sean Rooks to LA; Rod Strickland to the
Bullets; Chris Gatling to the Mavs.
TTom
|
| 10.4381 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:16 | 6 |
|
The Lakers gave Vancouver Anthony Peeler and George Lynch for
a 2nd round draft pick. Which free's up another 3 million under the
cap, to offer Shaq EVEN more money. Plus, they are going after Rodman.
Ron
|
| 10.4382 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:20 | 8 |
| I guess if you can't have shaq you might as well have the player
who can SHUT HIM DOWN :-)...
I Hate free Agency, the Bulls haven't got anyone yet (I was hoping they
would try and do something before tying up all the funds on MY or
Rodman).
MairB
|
| 10.4383 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:22 | 5 |
|
Allan Houston at 8 Mil a year. A joke!!!
|
| 10.4384 | ugh ugh | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:28 | 18 |
| > Allan Houston at 8 Mil a year. A joke!!!
Kinda makes LJ seem like small potato[e]s.
All of it's a joke.
And MairB, you seem to be taking for granted one minor signing that the
Bulls pulled off, your main Jordan. But I agree with you that I dislike
the way free agency is working in sports and I'm a free spirit kinda guy
on mosted things.
Somewhere between the right to make as much money as they can and
loyalty, they oughta be able to draw a line that helps the sprots.
What they're doing is ruining professional sports making the college
games that much more attractive.
TTom
|
| 10.4385 | | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Atlanta, Home of the WS Champs | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:37 | 7 |
| Not that I care (I haven't been to a pro game in years), but what
impact will all of these signings have on ticket and associated prices
(refreshments, etc.), I heard somewhere that the average price for a
family of 4 to go to an NBA game was $192. If thats the case I know I
won't be going to any games unless someone has a 1/3 price special.
UMDan
|
| 10.4386 | cheaper in Charlotte | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 17 1996 14:40 | 13 |
| I don't know what it costs ever where but at the Hive you can get tickets
out front to almost anygame this side of Michael Jordan for 20 bucks or
less.
The tickets start at 10 bucks which are practically impossible to find.
But there's a lot or 12, 15 and 17 buck ones to be had.
The Bugs claim they're gonna be the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NBA and are
gonna avoid the big name big ticket contracts. This coming from the guy
who gave the whole outrageous contract thing a real shot in the arm with
the LJ 85 mil contract.
TTom
|
| 10.4387 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Wed Jul 17 1996 16:07 | 4 |
| >I voted for Don MacLean. Paying him anything, even the league minimum, is
>outrageous.
I really hate when someone else says exactly what I'm thinking... :-)
|
| 10.4388 | ditto haids | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 17 1996 16:20 | 18 |
| >I really hate when someone else says exactly what I'm thinking... :-)
At least one of us should be embarrassed 8=]
Seriously, the guys a stiff. Overpaying somebody who's worth something is
one thing. Paying somebody who's worth approximately nothing is truly
outrageous.
BTW, there may be a wrinkle down in Miami. The Zo deal is going through
no matter what the actual figure is (ranges from 105 to 112 mil). This
costs the heat about 6 mil in cap, or 110% of his current salary
However, the problem is with the Juwan Howard contract. The Heat have to
clear up 9 mil under the cap to match the starting salary. Reports today
indicate that fellow Falkster, Rex Chapman is gonna be moved on one way
or the other and re-signing Tim Hardaway seems to be in jeopardy.
TTom
|
| 10.4389 | A new league | CXOSI::HOGIE | | Wed Jul 17 1996 17:06 | 7 |
| Maybe Miami should instead enter a 3-on-3 league, they seem to be
forgeting that you need 5 guys out on the court plus at least a couple
good bench players to make a run for a championship.
They're going to get stuck with a guy like Scott Brooks as their
starting point guard and some guy probably just recently released from
Vancouver for their starting off guard.
|
| 10.4390 | disgusting | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 17 1996 18:01 | 5 |
| 10.4391 | Knicks overpaid for Houston, but went nuts with Childs | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Wed Jul 17 1996 18:11 | 10 |
| To me, giving a 29 year old guy who started 52 games in his career, and
spent the first six years as a pro in the CBA and alcohol rehab is
insane. Chris Childs has to be the luckiest guy on earth.
And Kenny Anderson is the second luckiest, with Brent Price (!!!)
third. Paying Price more than the minimum is insane. I remember
seeing Mike Williams and Derek Kellogg hold him to 1-12 shooting and
four points against UMass, and he was even sloweer than Kellogg!
NAZZ
|
| 10.4392 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jul 17 1996 19:42 | 9 |
|
As expected the Lakers have upped there offer to Shaq, its now
at 117 million. Reports are that Shaq rejected Orlando's 119 million
dollar deal and is meeting with Jerry West today. West might also
renouce the rights to Elden Cambell, so that they can offer Shaq
140 million for 7 years, which is that magical # of 20 million a
season.
Ron
|
| 10.4393 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Wed Jul 17 1996 19:51 | 8 |
|
What is that renouncing contracts about. I thought the NBA Players
contracts were guaranteed?
Chap
|
| 10.4394 | Renounce free agents | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Wed Jul 17 1996 20:06 | 14 |
| >> What is that renouncing contracts about. I thought the NBA Players
>> contracts were guaranteed?
Eldon Campbell is a Laker free agent, he has no contract ...
BUT, his last years contract still counts against the Lakers
salary cap (if they want to re-sign him) ... if they renounce
his rights, then his salary from last season is removed from
their cap, and the Lakers cannot re-sign him until two months
into the season ...
I bet they ask Shaq: "Do you want $18 million and a power forward
or would you prefer $20 million and no power forward?"
Vinny
|
| 10.4395 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Wed Jul 17 1996 20:17 | 30 |
|
Zo was on Up Close with Chris Myers from ESPN yesterday. The main
topic was his 100MIL+ contract.
Other Items....
He will continue to play just as hard. His Goal is a Ring. (maybe he
can buy one from one of Georges friends?)
He has a baby due sometime this year.(Chris Myers mentioned how he will
be born with a Silver spoon in his mouth)
He's gonna really take care of people, Friends, Family etc....
He refused to BadMouth Shaq. Even though Shaq Did it to him.
Mentioned on how the owners have the money so the players deserved it.
I was quite impressed. He seems very competitive and sometimes that
looks like his ego is inflated.
Therefore Mike H I'll give you Bradley and McDyess for him.
Chap
|
| 10.4396 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jul 17 1996 20:34 | 17 |
|
Some of these contracts might seem totally unreasonable but the
players are getting what they deserve. The NBA is making millions of
dollars from TV revenue and merchandise sales, never mind the ticket
prices, concessions, parking, etc... The players have a good contract
which gives them X percent of the money, which is the way it is suppose
to be. The players generate all the money and are getting most of
the money. The players money doesn't just come from you or I, but
everybody world wide. Recent estimates have basketball surpassing
soccer as the #1 sport played in the world by the year 2000.
Say the Lakers make 100 million in a season before expenses, who
should get the 100 million? You give Shaq 20 million, the rest
combined another 30 million. Then say all your other expenses are
25 million for the year. The owner is still pocketing 25 million
profit.
Ron
|
| 10.4397 | Supply and Demand | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Wed Jul 17 1996 20:47 | 18 |
| re: -1
Yeah, I was thinking of some of this. Basketball especially is
unique. As a business, its product is basketball games. Lets
say you are talking about 2 superstars per team. Thats 56 people.
How many people are paying in one form or another for the product???
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS!!!
The ratio of customers that want to buy this product to the number
of employees required to 'manufacture' this product is STAGGERING.
Its all supply and demand. The money is there.
One thing I was thinking though is if the money is this big, why
can't the makers of the product finance the capital for it, i.e.
build (and pay for) your own arenas???
Tony
|
| 10.4398 | Doooooooooooooooooop | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Wed Jul 17 1996 20:49 | 8 |
|
When it comes to them Building there own arenas I believe thats when
they call it selective spending. :-)
chap
|
| 10.4399 | A sore spot! | MFGFIN::JACKSON | Set the drag just right! | Wed Jul 17 1996 21:08 | 20 |
| Well I for one think these contracts are ridiculous! Jordan has done
alot for the game, but $25mil/season? The Shaq aint worth $5mil let
alone 20. He can't make free throws or a 15' jumper.
I feel that people have a right to make as much as they can until it
gets to the point to where me, THE CONSUMER, can't afford to go to the
games because of all the costs. Its not just the tickets that cost
$$$. Parking, food, drink, gas, tickets, memoribilia (sp?), etc..
I know the ticket prices for the nuggets went up again. Some court
side seats went up by 35%!!. The product isn't better, actually its
gotten worse.
Yeh the league and owners are making wads of $$$, but where are they
getting it, from the consumer who can afford it, not me!
Big contracts = gauging consumer to pay for it!
Tim
|
| 10.4400 | SNARF | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 17 1996 21:24 | 1 |
| 10.4401 | Brad out; Shaq signs | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 18 1996 17:01 | 9 |
| Brad Daugherty has been declared unfit to continue playing in the NBA.
League doctors examined him. This will give Cleveland back his salary
against the cap. Supposedly, insurance will make up the salary to Brad.
And ever one's reporting that Shaq has signd with the Lakers. It's
supposed to be for 7 years and 115-125 million range. A press conference
will happen at 3 to tell all.
TTom
|
| 10.4402 | | ROCK::HUBER | From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls | Thu Jul 18 1996 17:04 | 6 |
|
>Brad Daugherty has been declared unfit to continue playing in the NBA.
>League doctors examined him. This will give Cleveland back his salary
>against the cap. Supposedly, insurance will make up the salary to Brad.
Finally. Now maybe the Cavs will actually _do_ something...
|
| 10.4403 | sad | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 18 1996 17:06 | 4 |
| Daugherty's a sad story. I wonder how hard it will be on him to just go
through the motions of life? How bad is the back?
TTom
|
| 10.4404 | Rick Barry makes veterans all time team | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Thu Jul 18 1996 17:32 | 11 |
| I see the veterans committee have come up with an all time team
excluding active players. Their team includes Rick Barry and George
Mikan and five Celtics: Russell,Cousy,Havlicek,Bird and Walton.
Others are West,Baylor,Petit,Chamberlain,Oscar and Dr. J. Auerbach is
the coach.
Alcindor is the glaring ommission. This is just about my team minus
active players in an earlier note including Barry.
Nazz must think these former players are complete idiots.
|
| 10.4405 | just say no to Walton | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 18 1996 17:37 | 15 |
| Walton was a great collegian, had a couple of great years in the pros and
then his wheels grounded him.
How anyone who knows NBA could say that he's better'n Kareem is amazing.
I'm not necessarily lobbying for Kareem, but Walton has no place on
there. With George Mikan, 4 of the 13 are centers.
I think Bob Pettit was on there, also.
The question might be is who will be dropped when they vote again in a
couple of years. Magic and Michael have to be locks for any kinda
all-time NBA anything.
TTom
|
| 10.4406 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Thu Jul 18 1996 17:43 | 10 |
|
>Brad Daugherty has been declared unfit...
So come Cleveland gets his salary back, but when a player dies the team
has to carry the salary for the duration of the contract. Do the
league doctors think that death is not sufficient to be declared unfit
and if so, Brad must be a whole lot worse than people thought.
Marc
|
| 10.4407 | that's the Lakers' factor Marc.... | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Thu Jul 18 1996 18:09 | 4 |
|
The League has in for the C's for pasting the Lakers all those years....more
specifically they'll do anything to get back at Red for hoodwinking them all
those years.............
|
| 10.4408 | Most Outrageous | CXOSI::HOGIE | | Thu Jul 18 1996 18:09 | 10 |
| I believe we may have a winner in the most outrageous contract -
PJ Brown has reportedly signed a 7 year $36 million dollar contract
with Miami - not bad money for a guy who will be a back-up.
You would have thought the NJ would have had a good team with the money
Childs and Brown are getting as free agents.
BTW, O'Neal has signed with the Lakers, details at a new conference
later today.
|
| 10.4409 | unbelievable | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 18 1996 18:14 | 9 |
| I guess that afore all this started Miami had a negative number in terms
of what counted against the cap. The league owed 'em some :=]
How in the wide, wide world of sports did they find another 5 mil or so
under the cap.
And they continue to claim that they're gonna re-sign Hardaway, too.
TTom
|
| 10.4410 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Thu Jul 18 1996 18:20 | 6 |
| Does my heart good to see the Lakers wasting their money again. Now if the
refs will just crack down on his banging into people on the way to basket
the Lakers will be stuck with a 15 point a game scorer who has no desire
to rebound and plays defense when he can block a shot into the stands.
I can't believe that Jerry West is all for this got believe that Dr. Jerry
pushed this one through...........
|
| 10.4411 | Can someone really confirm the shaq signing ? | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Thu Jul 18 1996 18:42 | 8 |
| Robinson and Hakeem can both outplay Shaq hands down... Grant's a
moroon and I lost alot of respect for Hardaway during the playoffs.
This will make for an intresting year, could be a Chicago VS Lakers
rematch, only question will be do you call it Michael VS Magic II
or Air VS Shaq I :-)
MairB
|
| 10.4412 | mismatch | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 18 1996 18:48 | 12 |
| I think you'll call it a sweep.
If'n the Lakers had to dump about ever player this side of VanExel, Shaq
won't have the help he obviously needs.
Remember, Shaq with a cast that included Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson
were still a lottery team until they got Horace and Penny.
Vax Exel and Ceballos can play but obviously need some work in the area
between their ears.
TTom
|
| 10.4413 | But how much better are they? Better than the Knicks? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Thu Jul 18 1996 19:09 | 14 |
| Rick Barry?!?!?!?!? Must be some kind of sympathy vote. Does he have
a terminal illness or sumpin'?
The Heat were pretty tricky in their skirting of the cap. They have
put off signing Mourning, which left them $9 million under the cap, so
they could sign Howard, renounce a bunch of guys, and sign Brown (for
over $5 million a year?????) the Brown contract makes it difficult to
say ol' Dino is overpaid! So now the Heat can go sign their own free
agents, like Mourning, Hardaway, and Chapman. Their payroll for the
year will be about $22 million over the cap, and they won't be able to
sign another free agent until after the turn of the century, but Riley
should now have the team he wants.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4414 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Thu Jul 18 1996 19:26 | 12 |
| >So now the Heat can go sign their own free
> agents, like Mourning, Hardaway, and Chapman.
OK, so they're set at center (Mourning), power forward (Howard), point
guard (Hardaway), and shooting guard (calling Chapman a shooting guard may
be a misnomer).
In today's NBA, being in good shape at four positions can send you a long way.
You can probably platoon (insert 3 names here) at small forward.
Maybe they can get Charles to re-do his contract so he makes the minimum,
so he has a chance at a ring... :-)
|
| 10.4415 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Thu Jul 18 1996 19:27 | 5 |
| > Rick Barry?!?!?!?!? Must be some kind of sympathy vote. Does he have
> a terminal illness or sumpin'?
Was laughing very hard at this. Am also amazed to see "Rick Barry" and
"sympathy" in the same paragraph...
|
| 10.4416 | Miami passes Orlando for best team in Florida | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Thu Jul 18 1996 19:58 | 24 |
| >> >So now the Heat can go sign their own free
>> > agents, like Mourning, Hardaway, and Chapman.
>> OK, so they're set at center (Mourning), power forward (Howard), point
>> guard (Hardaway), and shooting guard (calling Chapman a shooting guard may
>> be a misnomer).
>> In today's NBA, being in good shape at four positions can send you a long
>> way. You can probably platoon (insert 3 names here) at small forward.
Actually, the Heat are very well set in the frontcourt with a four
man rotation of Alonzo Mourning / Juwaan Howard / PJ Brown and
all-rookie team member Kurt Thomas ... not to mention the draft pick
they scooped up this year (forget his name)
Its just the backcourt that is shaky ... and if they can re-sign
their own free agents (Hardaway), then they would have an adequate
back court ... don't they also have a European shooting guard
who missed most of last season with an injury?
Sasha Danilovic maybe?
Only time will tell if Riley's gamble pays off ... he will have
*no* player movement in the near future, he will be stuck with
the hand that he has drawn ...
Vinny
|
| 10.4417 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Jul 18 1996 20:45 | 7 |
| 10.4418 | so what will they do with #32 | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Jul 18 1996 20:52 | 4 |
| > If LA lets Shaq wear Magic's # 32, I'll really lose all respect for
> them.
I hadn't thought of that. What will they do?
|
| 10.4419 | Won't be #32 | CXOSI::HOGIE | | Thu Jul 18 1996 22:07 | 8 |
| Not to worry, it was announced that Shaq will wear #34.
My only problem with the whole thing is that Shaq had said that
Orlando would be given first priority. Orlando definitely stepped
to the plate on negotiations, so I that Shaq was feeding the public
a "shaq of sh*t".
Charles Barkley definitely had the inside scoop.
|
| 10.4420 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Fri Jul 19 1996 12:40 | 4 |
| > A front 5 of Shaq, Elden, Ceballos, Eddie Jones, and Van Exel isn't all
> that bad, but their bench sips.
I thought they renounced Elden Campbell's rights to make room for Shaq...
|
| 10.4421 | Barry solid choice of veterans | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Fri Jul 19 1996 14:28 | 12 |
| You two have that Boston bias against certain players, Barry being an
obvious case. This attitude is not prevalent, obviously, throughout
the nba former player world. The reason is that Barry did not play
soft; passed,shot and drove to the basket better than all the forwards,
including Bird and won championships in two leagues. His offense
rebounding was superior, defensive rebounding limited except in the
clutch.
Now if 12 was the max and they add Magic it would be interesting to see
who they'd drop as someone mentioned.
"Laughing" at the selection of Barry only embarasses the laugher.
|
| 10.4422 | you can have 'im | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jul 19 1996 14:33 | 7 |
| I aint from Boston and wouldn't vote for Barry if'n he was the onliest
one on the ballot!~
Sure he could score but so could Adrian Dantley and Dominique Wilkins.
OK, he won a_NBA ring. Stacey King has three.
TTom
|
| 10.4423 | shaq-ed up | MUTEX::LIU | | Fri Jul 19 1996 15:20 | 13 |
|
From the basketball side, 100-whatever million is an absurd figure to pay for a
one-dimensional player, especially when you have to dump the rest of the
franchise to do it. The ability to make free-throws is crucial at clutch time
(example: Nick Anderson missing four in the 1995 Finals Game 1 to cause the
Tragic to lose to Houston) and Shaq just cannot do it. And if he were not
allowed to muscle guys to the floor in order to dunk, he wouldn't score *any*
points.
From the marketing side, Shaq will generate a lot of interest ($) in a Lakers
uniform which will probably make up for his salary in the first year.
P.S. The 18-million-dollar-man for the Celtics doesn't look so bad now :-)
|
| 10.4424 | Heat are better, but not a championship team | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Fri Jul 19 1996 15:32 | 9 |
| Seems to me the Heat are short at backup center and the backcourt.
They must hope Hardaway stays healthy. If they sign Chapman (which I'm
almost positive they will, since he's a Falk client), they'll be OK at
SG, but have no one behind Hardaway. And as noted previously, they
have NO maneuverability for the future. Heat looks to me like a
mid-lottery team in the 48-52 win range, and a second round loser in
the playoffs.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4425 | same ol' Chicago vs Seattle | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jul 19 1996 15:46 | 21 |
| Did I write this:
> ... Heat looks to me like a
> mid-lottery team in the 48-52 win range, and a second round loser in
> the playoffs.
How can you be a mid-lottery team make it into the playoffs, much less
win a round? You mean mid-playoff team?
I don't see any of the changes around the league altering the balance of
power, at least not nexted year. This assumes that the Bulls re-sign
Rodman and they and and the Sonics stay healthy.
I don't see Shaq and the Lakers taking the West from Seattle or the
Knicks or the Heat in the East beating out Chicago in the East.
In the NBA, nexted year is about all you can predict because at the end
of the season we get to do this all over again. Michael is back up for
grabs along with a lot of other "names".
TTom
|
| 10.4426 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Jul 19 1996 17:09 | 9 |
| 10.4427 | NBA hasn't been "family of 4" event in years... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Hardball, good ol' country | Fri Jul 19 1996 17:22 | 11 |
|
> The lack of foresight by the NBA in all of this is scary. The fans are
> being alienated and they are the ones footing the bill. It's hard
> enough now for a family of 4 to catch a ballgame. At this pace, every
> seat will have to be owned by a corporate account.
It's a TV game, though. More so than with any other pro sprot, the
drawing cards are out-of-market, out-of-reach...
glenn
|
| 10.4428 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Fri Jul 19 1996 18:33 | 17 |
| >> -< NBA hasn't been "family of 4" event in years... >-
Other than Major League Baseball what major sport is?
Football isn't. Not with tickets at $32.00 bucks a pop
just to get in the door and the concessions priced to
break the Rockefellers. Hockey is worse. Baseball is
the only game in town where you can still get a decent
seat for ~$10.00. Besides, the other big three don't
care about the family of four. That isn't where the
moulah is. They always cry about more luxury boxes
not more cheap seats for little Johnny. And the cynic
in me (I know, I'm *all* cynic) says that baseball
may only care because of an eroding fan base. More and
more attending major league sports becomes a rare treat
for families and that's not going to change in the near
future.
|
| 10.4429 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Jul 19 1996 18:38 | 3 |
| 10.4430 | | CLUSTA::MAIEWSKI | Bos-Mil-Atl Braves W.S. Champs | Fri Jul 19 1996 18:40 | 11 |
| Minor league baseball is great for families. I got to all 5 games that I set
out to see this month and the stands were loaded with kids, especially at the
AA and A levels.
At the higher levels I agree with Tommy, they just don't give a rip about
families. At that price they can get corporate clients at the top end and
the grandstands will fill up with bunches of young and middle age guys paying
their own way and paying more to soak up the suds and buy hot dogs at $2.75
a pop.
George
|
| 10.4431 | Tough to pick which Florida team is better | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Fri Jul 19 1996 19:03 | 6 |
| Nice catch TTom - and I'm the editor?!?!? I meant to say a mid-playoff
team for Miami, not a mid-lottery team.
Who will have more wins nexted season, Miami or Orlando?
NAZZ
|
| 10.4432 | or put another way | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Jul 19 1996 19:14 | 11 |
| I'll take Miami for a hundred, Alex.
Orlando has the ol' proverbial hole in the middle. I guess it'll be
Koncak unless Goofy can fit in under the cap.
Miami is thin in the backcourt but has some bench help.
The other way to look at this, who will go farther in the playoffs, Miami
or Orlando?
TTom
|
| 10.4433 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Fri Jul 19 1996 20:27 | 4 |
| Well this will be one colossal failure for Mr. Ego if he spends all
that money and can't at least play 6 in the finals vs Chicago.
Howard and Mourning are not how I'd have spent 200 mil.
|
| 10.4434 | Movie star | FABSIX::R_LUCHT | Ten Feet Tall and Bulletproof | Sat Jul 20 1996 01:53 | 5 |
| I heard today that Dennis Rodman signed a 2 million dollar deal to star
in an action film opposite Jean-Claude Van Damme. I think the Worm is a perfect
choice to play a bad guy in the movie. I'll go see it. Shaq must be real jealous.
Rich......
|
| 10.4435 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Mon Jul 22 1996 12:44 | 14 |
| Baseball has the ability to keep those cheap seats due to the size
of there stadiums and how many home games they play. Plus they have
more flexible schedule's, have the ability to make up games with
double headers... when's the last time a Football game was called
due to rain ?
I do think when they build these damn stadiums (Like Fleet Center)
they should keep in mind the CHEAP SECTION and try and add another
section even in NoseBleed territory with lower prices...
Mike who's last professional outing was a Triple OT Celtics game
that had Jordan and Bird going at it :-)
MaB
|
| 10.4436 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Mon Jul 22 1996 18:28 | 26 |
| > What I don't understand is why some of these players (Houston and
> Howard) never gave their previous team a chance to counteroffer. I
> guess team loyalty is totally gone.
Supposedly, Detroit wanted to put off negotiations with Houston until after
they signed Mutombo. NY went after him when the FA bell rang...even having
Ewing escort him around the weekend he signed. Whether he's worth the
money or not, the Knicks had him as a priority. In fact, the NYC media
went so far as to say that both the LJ and Childs' acquisitions were
dependent on NY signing Houston first. (LJ waiving his trade bonus to
make the trade possible.)
I guess Starks is a goner. No one expects him to be satisfied as a backup...
especially when Hubert Davis *is*.
Whether Childs and Houston can step-up in big moments remains to be seen.
Harper and Starks had the courage, if not the skill, to do so. To me,
of the 3 acquisitions, Gran-ma-ma is the one that will make or break
the Knicks' season. I think NY loses so much in intensity without Mason.
Defense and rebounding are not in LJ's game. And Mason used to cover
some of the big centers in the league.
I think NY will be able to score, but I'm not sure it will make up for the
defense they've lost. As one NY reporter wrote: "What made NY so tough
for Chicago was their defense. The Bulls will be happy to play this
Knicks team."
|
| 10.4437 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Tue Jul 23 1996 13:11 | 1 |
| Which team signed Kenny Anderson ?
|
| 10.4438 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Tue Jul 23 1996 13:52 | 12 |
|
re .4437, officially nobody has signed Kenny Anderson as of yet.
Portland plans on signing him but can't until the Rod Strickland trade
to Washington goes through. Good old Rod, won't go to Washington for
a physical so the trade hasn't been approved. IMO Strickland or any
player who refuses to have a physical to void a trade. Should be banned
from the NBA for 3 seasons. Reason, he isn't effecting just himself,
but 2 teams and 4 other players, because he won't have a physical. He
isn't just playing with his own life, but effect how others will live
theres.
Ron
|
| 10.4439 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Wed Jul 24 1996 04:18 | 1 |
| 10.4440 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jul 24 1996 13:08 | 7 |
|
re .4439,
Yup, Portland picked up Isiah Rider. The renounced the rights
to Buck Williams to free up enough cap money.
Ron
|
| 10.4441 | Popeye packs his spinach to Canada | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Wed Jul 24 1996 17:57 | 27 |
| Can someone explain this deal to me??
The Mavericks gave up: (1) Popeye Jones (a very serviceable rebounder)
(2) a first round draft pick
(3) the right to swap picks with Minnesota
for
(1) Jimmy King
(2) a pair of second round picks
Why does this seem like a very lopsided deal? Especially since Jones
does not make a lot of money, so it probably isn't a salary cap issue.
>> TORONTO - The Toronto Raptors acquired one of the NBA's top rebounders
>> Tuesday, acquiring Popeye Jones from the Dallas Mavericks. Toronto also
>> got a first-round draft pick from Dallas and sent the Mavericks guard
>> Jimmy King and a pair of second-round draft picks. Jones, 6-foot-8,
>> averaged 11.3 points and 10.8 rebounds a game last season.
>> He also averaged 3.8 offensive rebounds a game, fourth best in the league.
>> The first-round pick in the deal belonged to the New York Knicks.
>> The Mavericks got the 1997 pick in the Derek Harper trade Jan. 6, 1994.
>> The Jones deal also gives Toronto the right to exchange first-round picks
>> next year with Minnesota, unless the pick is the first overall. The
>> Mavericks received that provision in November 1994 in exchange for
>> Sean Rooks. Dallas, meanwhile, gets the Raptors' second-round picks in
>> 1997 and '98.
Vinny
|
| 10.4442 | Only speculation | CXOSI::HOGIE | | Wed Jul 24 1996 19:44 | 8 |
| Looking at that trade I can only wonder if they're still thinking
about acquiring Charles Barkley for the PF spot. Granted they drafted
Samaki Walker, a PF but I doubt if they expect him to step in
immediately.
Only speculation on my part, but if it happens I'll take the credit.
Tony
|
| 10.4443 | Blazers are wheeling and dealing... | NWD002::JOYNER_GL | Did I do that? | Thu Jul 25 1996 16:30 | 23 |
| I've even heard speculation here in Portland that the Blazers may be
talking to Phoenix about Barkley or A.C. Green. The scenerio I heard
was that the Blazers are shopping Cliff Robinson around.
Even if the Blazers don't make any more moves, they have the POTENTIAL
(I stress potential!) to be a very good and exciting team! The
starting five looks like this as we speak:
PG: Kenny Anderson (#2 pick)
SG: J.R. Rider (#4 pick)
SF: Cliff Robinson (All-Star)
PF: Rasheed Wallace (#4 pick)
C: Arvydas Sabonis (Runner-up for ROY
and 6th Man awards)
This leaves a bench with Aaron McKie, Gary Trent, Jermaine Oneal,
Randolph Childress, Dontonio Wingfield, and Chris Dudley.
I'm excited about this team. I can see the obvious potential problems
with some of these guys, but I'm willing to give them all a chance to
straighten up and play ball like they're capable of playing.
Glen.
|
| 10.4444 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Thu Jul 25 1996 18:30 | 12 |
| >Can someone explain this deal to me??
I don't understand it either. Jones and 2 #1s for King and 2 #2s.
And now Toronto sends the 1st-round pick from Dallas to the Knicks
for Hubert Davis. The pick is NY's own pick, which they traded to
Dallas 2 years ago for Derek Harper.
The Knicks had to make a move at 2G after acquiring Houston. Everyone
thought it would be Starks (me included). But they send Davis.
That gets 'em a #1 next year, and $1.2M of cap money to spend right
now. SPORTSZONE says Starks' $7-8M balloon in '97-98 made him
untradable.
|
| 10.4445 | Toronto building slowly with youth | ILBBAK::SILVESTRI | Soar with the Eagles! | Thu Jul 25 1996 18:45 | 15 |
| Why Dallas made the deal is a mystery to me ... I guess they
think Chris Gatling (way overpaid now) and rookie Samaki Walker
can handle the four-spot ... but Jimmy King??? What does he bring
to the team?? Insurance in case Jimmy Jackson is traded??
As for the Raptors, I liked what they did, they only lose
Jimmy King and a couple second round picks to get
Popeye Jones (a solid rebounder) and Hubert Davis (a nice
shooting two guard) ... Isiah is making some decent moves
north of the border ... and neither of these guys is going
to tie them up salary cap wise (like John Starks balloon
payment would have) ...
Vinny
|
| 10.4446 | 97 schedule on web | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Wed Jul 31 1996 21:30 | 7 |
| USA Today has posted the 97 NBA schedule.
I'd put it here except that it's a couple thousand lines.
Let me know if'n you want it.
TTom
|
| 10.4447 | NBA voids the Juwan-Miami deal | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Aug 01 1996 18:59 | 80 |
|
ESPNET SportsZone | NBA
NBA voids Howard's $100 million deal with Miami
_________________________________________________________________
NEW YORK -- [LINK]Juwan Howard, who became the NBA's first $100
million man when he signed with the Miami Heat earlier this month, had
his contract voided by the league Monday.
Juwan Howard Howard
_________________________________________________________________
The NBA said the contract exceeded the room available to the Heat
under the salary cap. Miami cleared over $20 million in order to
aggressively pursue free agents and signed Howard to a reported $110
million over seven years on July 17.
However, in a statement released Wednesday, the league indicated the
Heat was careless and did not follow protocol in signing Howard.
In addition to Howard, Miami also has signed free agent forward P.J.
Brown and re-signed center Alonzo Mourning and guard Tim Hardaway. All
three of those deals have impacted the voiding of Howard's contract.
"First, the Heat incorrectly calculated their available cap room
because they excluded performance bonuses provided for in contracts
previously submitted for Tim Hardaway and P.J. Brown that should have
been included," NBA chief legal officer Jeff Mishkin said.
"Second, Miami had already reached a deal with Alonzo Mourning prior
to the signing of Howard, thereby further reducing the amount of cap
room available for the Howard contract," he added.
Brown signed a seven-year, $36 million deal. Mourning re-signed for a
reported $112 million over seven years and Hardaway inked an
undisclosed multi-year deal.
Under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement, a team must
fit free agents from other teams within the salary cap but may exceed
the cap to re-sign its own free agents. The cap is set at $24.3
million for next season.
Mourning's 1996-97 salary would not have counted against the cap had
he signed his deal after the Heat reached the limit. But -- as the NBA
alleges -- because he signed his deal before Howard came to terms,
Mourning's salary counts against the cap, leaving less available money
to sign Howard.
Miami coach Pat Riley said the team had been in frequent contact with
the league during negotiations and believed they did nothing wrong.
"We did everything in accordance and we also were on the phone on a
regular basis ... to make sure we were doing things right," Riley said
during a conference call late Wednesday. "That's why we are surprised
and disappointed with the announcement today. We are thinking that
what we did is correct and was right. We're going to move very quickly
forward to try to remedy this."
Riley insisted that no agreement had been reached with Mourning.
"In no way, shape or form has there ever been an agreement with Alonzo
Mourning. We are right now in the process of finalizing terms and
conditions with him," Riley said.
Riley said he believed the NBA's disapproval of Howard's contract was
a misunderstanding and that the Heat would prevail on the issue, which
likely will go to arbitration.
"My thought is the league is trying to do the best they can do with an
influx of many new contracts coming in," Riley said. "I don't think
we're the only team that is going to go through this."
The 6-10 Howard played his first two seasons with the Washington
Bullets. He chose to become a free agent, opting out of a deal that
would have paid him $1.7 million next season.
Both Howard and Mourning are clients of agent David Falk, who is on
vacation and unavailable for comment.
|
| 10.4448 | In ML we trust...... | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Aug 05 1996 10:41 | 12 |
|
How's feel Heat fans? Of course it's ok for the Lakers to somehow find another
8 million to get Shaq. What is the freakin' league's love affair with these
loosers? What are the Lakers like 2 and 35 against the Celtics in the FINALS?
Or maybe it's the sorry a$$ Knicks' brass firng one last shot at Patty the
Savior who also got jacked by the Lakers too come to think of it? Ironic?
I don't think so..........
mike
|
| 10.4449 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Mon Aug 05 1996 14:45 | 4 |
| >What is the freakin' league's love affair with these
> loosers? What are the Lakers like 2 and 35 against the Celtics in the FINALS?
Those 2 obviously hurt though, eh MikeyC ?
|
| 10.4450 | lasted 2, too | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 05 1996 14:45 | 5 |
| >Those 2 obviously hurt though, eh MikeyC ?
And to make it worser still, it was the lasted 2 times they played
TTom
|
| 10.4451 | | AKEEM::GRONOWSKI | | Mon Aug 05 1996 14:54 | 3 |
|
Probably not as much as the 100 year drought they're in for... they're
trying to keep pace with the Red Sox ya know.
|
| 10.4452 | WYSEB | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Aug 05 1996 15:05 | 8 |
|
Geez, you guys must have answered the casting call for the guy standing in
the street in the Dockers commercial saying "nice pants". You just ripped
open the gashes wider thanks alot..........
WYSEB - when you sling it expect it back
mike
|
| 10.4453 | seen 'em all, almost | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 05 1996 15:16 | 11 |
| Mike,
Hey, I lived through most of them like 35 losses and done pre-paid on the
gloating. My main West By Gawd Virginee main, Jerry "Zeek from Cabin
Creek" West personally lost about half of 'em.
But that was in the unbeatable era with Russell. The hardest to swallow
had to be the fisted Magic-Larry tilt where Red and the rest of 'em got
to smoke another cigar.
TTom
|
| 10.4454 | Boston still rules | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Mon Aug 05 1996 15:31 | 10 |
| I think it will be a VERY LONG LONG LONG TIME before any other
franchise passes the Celtics in terms of Championships...
I think there might be a Hockey team with more championships I thought
I recall someone posting a listing will all the sports/championships
and who has won how many ??? Im going to assume in the NBA its
Boston, LA Lakers then Chicago in terms of most championships won.
MairB
|
| 10.4455 | | AKEEM::GRONOWSKI | | Mon Aug 05 1996 15:37 | 2 |
|
What have ya done for me lately!
|
| 10.4456 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Mon Aug 05 1996 15:46 | 6 |
|
>> What have ya done for me lately!
If you're asking that of your Cleveland teams, the answer is
"not much'. If you're aksing that of the Cavaliers the answer is
'not anything. ever'.
|
| 10.4457 | | POWDML::GARBARINO | | Mon Aug 05 1996 16:02 | 4 |
| > Boston, LA Lakers then Chicago in terms of most championships won.
Isn't there another team with more than 4 titles ? Chicago has only 4.
What about Philly ?...Maybe even the Syracuse Nat's.
|
| 10.4458 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Aug 05 1996 16:35 | 7 |
|
TTom, your main man never lost one of those games (or so it seemed) he just
ran out of time. I used to litterally pray after the Celts made a hoop that
West would not get the ball. He was probably the first guy I thought was
automatic......
mike
|
| 10.4459 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Aug 05 1996 16:36 | 4 |
|
re: Paul
They didn't waste their draft pick this year like the Cavs did....
|
| 10.4460 | Mr. Clutch | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 05 1996 16:40 | 11 |
| They din't call him Mr. Clutch fer nothin I guess.
Mike, I don't know if'n you've ever seen the movie _Volunteers_. Tom
Hanks plays a rich kid just graduating from Yale. He's about 10 grand to
the book so he bets it all, double or nothing, the final game of one of
the Lakers-Celtics series. He's getting 2 1/2. At the end, Elgin Baylor
misses a shot, Celtics rebound and score a meaningless FG to win by 4.
I immediately thought that they shoulda let Jerry West take that shot.
TTom
|
| 10.4461 | | AKEEM::GRONOWSKI | | Mon Aug 05 1996 17:07 | 9 |
|
Mike, this clearly shows what you know. Cleveland had a great draft
this year.
Tom, as usual is living in the past... oh but gee, like 25 years ago,
when you could walk up to the ticket office the day of the 7th game
of the nba championship and get a ticket, the celtics were awesome...
but no one went or watched until... and now that they suck, you can
find hundreds of thousands who went to each game of the finals.
|
| 10.4462 | hardly | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 05 1996 17:16 | 3 |
| > Tom, as usual is living in the past...
Moi? The guy who's actually attended a_NFL game thised year?
|
| 10.4463 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Mon Aug 05 1996 17:40 | 7 |
| 10.4464 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | I need somebody to shove. | Mon Aug 05 1996 18:32 | 16 |
| >> Mike, this clearly shows what you know. Cleveland had a great draft
>> this year.
A great draft? Vtatley Popenko and Zy-whosis Whatihisface is a great
draft? Years of Brad Daugherty have lowered your standarsd, Paul. Those
two draft choices are so stiff they could get federal protection as
spotted owl habitat.
>> Tom, as usual is living in the past...
I know. I'm living in the past when I talk about the Celitcs winning
titles when there most recent one was ten years ago but you aren't
when you puff your chest about the see-ya-later Browns title 33 years
ago. It's all where you're standing I guess.
|
| 10.4465 | News at 23:00 | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | Donnie Baseball Yankee HOFer!!! | Mon Aug 05 1996 18:36 | 9 |
|
Uh_oh Tom fight!!
Which Tom was Groaner disparaging.
Chap
|
| 10.4466 | none of the above? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 05 1996 18:37 | 1 |
| Neither? Both?
|
| 10.4467 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Aug 05 1996 18:44 | 4 |
|
Well if a one weekend wonder at a draft camp floats your boat Paul then the
Cavs had a great draft. Still haven't seen a Euro player who had what it
takes........
|
| 10.4468 | | AKEEM::GRONOWSKI | | Mon Aug 05 1996 20:04 | 2 |
|
I refuse to fight with Brooks-wanna-be Thomas Brydie.
|
| 10.4469 | Help Me Out! | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Aug 06 1996 12:50 | 14 |
| re: .4453
Mike, help me out. You say here that Jerry West personally lost
about half of the games the Lakers played against the Celts and
later on everyone is saying West is the LAST guy you would want
to have take the shot and is the clutchiest guy in town. (I
tended to believe the latter although I really didn't get to
see him play all that much.)
How do I accomadate both of these ideas? Or do I?
I'm confused!
Tony
|
| 10.4470 | possible | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Aug 06 1996 14:29 | 12 |
| I think I can clear this up...
In .4453, I assserted that Jerry West lost about half of 'em. I din't
mean that he was personally responsible just that he was on the wrong
side of the score compared to Russell.
In .4458, Mike was kind enough to point out that Jerry din't lose 'em and
in fack was the guy apparently most feared by the Celtics faithful.
We both agree that Jerry deserved the moniker, Mr. Clutch.
TTom
|
| 10.4471 | Now I Got It | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Aug 06 1996 15:32 | 5 |
| Thanks Tom,
For some reason, I thought Mike wrote that reply!
Tony
|
| 10.4472 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Tue Aug 06 1996 17:16 | 2 |
| 10.4473 | a lesson somewhere | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Aug 06 1996 17:25 | 14 |
| Not recently.
I've seen a lot of stuff on 'em including a piece not long ago on the
Dream Team that discussed the 60 collegiate team that had Jerry and Big O
starting at guards.
West used to be hyper and almost couldn't handle losing at all. He'd get
physically ill over it.
Then he decided that all the stress wasn't worth it and got oughta the
one of the main sources of stress, his firsted marriage. Now, he's like a
new man.
TTom
|
| 10.4474 | Howard a Bullet/Wizard | CXOSI::HOGIE | | Wed Aug 07 1996 17:49 | 7 |
| According to today's news the Miami Heat have removed any rights on
their hold to Juwan Howard - meaning that Juwan Howard is officially
a Washington Bullet/Wizard.
I really didn't think that Pat Riley would allow the Heat to give in
so easy. Especially since Morning is signed and I beleive that means
they are over the cap and their dealing is done.
|
| 10.4475 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Wed Aug 07 1996 20:24 | 3 |
| Riley didn't give in so easily. He gets a #1 from the Bullets which
isn't bad since he didn't (net) have to give anything for it. ML would
get a headline for that.
|
| 10.4476 | | AKEEM::GRONOWSKI | | Wed Aug 07 1996 20:30 | 3 |
|
Riley does not get Washington's #1 next year. Washington forfeits the
pick and it goes into the bit bucket
|
| 10.4477 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Thu Aug 08 1996 10:57 | 2 |
|
Where somehow someway the Lakers will find it..........
|
| 10.4478 | stay tuned | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Aug 08 1996 13:30 | 4 |
| Reports are coming out that the NBA is putting heat on some of the other
Miami contracts, like Zo and PJ.
TTom
|
| 10.4479 | seems funny | ESOSRV::BATOR | | Thu Aug 08 1996 15:34 | 7 |
| re: .-1
>> " .... NBA is putting heat on .... Miami ..."
^^^^^
is this intentional?
|
| 10.4480 | yep | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Aug 08 1996 15:36 | 0 |
| 10.4481 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Thu Aug 08 1996 18:06 | 7 |
| 10.4482 | could be | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Thu Aug 08 1996 18:08 | 6 |
| > Some think the league office has a vendetta against Riley for leaving
> NY.
I was thinking along these lines, too. Maybe they just don't wanna see
Riley and the Heat playing Shaq, Kobe and the Lakers for all the
marbles...
|
| 10.4483 | So nice of you guys to finally catch up ;^) | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Thu Aug 08 1996 18:44 | 0 |
| 10.4484 | Riley may be a decent coach, but he's no miracle worker | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Fri Aug 09 1996 14:43 | 10 |
| Riley and the Heat would have been slightly above average with Howard.
Without him, they are a lottery team. There is no way they were
challenging the Bulls or even the Pacers for Eastern supremacy this
year, and seeing as how they've tied their own hands for years within
the salary cap thanks to outrageous contracts for the likes of PJ
Brown, it's unlikely they will be serious contenders for the next
several years even with Howard. Without him, they are the similar
to the Cletics.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4485 | Zo's gonna suffer | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Aug 09 1996 14:47 | 7 |
| Without Howard, not only will the Heat suffer but so will Zo.
Zo has shown himself as needing some help on the boards. When LJ gave a
hoot, Zo was fairly good. Without a power forward, he can look bad like
the playoff series with the Bulls.
TTom
|
| 10.4486 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Fri Aug 09 1996 17:10 | 16 |
| Id say the Knicks are the team to beat other then the bulls... The
bulls have one huge major obstacle people seem to forget... Father
Time... These guys are getting old and lets face it an injury to
MJ ends there season very early but an injury to Pippen/Rodman makes
them a great team but not a hands down favorite...
NY will have a very decent/deep team, Indiana didn't really do
anything to improve themselves (just resigned there own players).
Id say the eastern finals will be NY Vs Chicago with the edge going
to Chicago but I won't put any money on it as the bulls will need to
stay healthy and focused (Whats the odds of rodman staying focused
for the entire season and playoffs)....
How does washington team stack up now ?
MairB
|
| 10.4487 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | It's Baseball And You're An American | Fri Aug 09 1996 17:23 | 1 |
| MAirB, does it get heavy carrying around all of those sandbags? :-)
|
| 10.4488 | Assuming Washington keeps Howard | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Fri Aug 09 1996 18:47 | 20 |
| If Washington gets to keep Howard, they, not the Knicks, are the
favorites in the Atlantic. Here's how I would currently rate the
Eastern Conference:
1. Chicago
2. Washington
3. Indiana
4. Atlanta
5. New York
6. Cleveland
7. Orlando
8. Milwaukee
9. Miami
10. Boston
11. Charlotte
12. Detroit
13. New Jersey
14. Philadelphia
NAZZ
|
| 10.4489 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Aug 09 1996 18:59 | 1 |
| 10.4490 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri Aug 09 1996 19:21 | 7 |
| re .4489,
Who has salary cap money left? Everybody who is moving has moved
already, Reggie will stay in Indiana. He probably will end up
signing for less money, because there is no place for him to go.
Ron
|
| 10.4491 | | TPSYS::BROOKS | | Fri Aug 09 1996 19:25 | 19 |
| Hmmm Could Indiana go after Howard then sign Reggie :-)
-3; I don't see Chicago as the hands down favorite they
had a great year this year but did they improve during the
offseason of just all get a year older ? Can they matain
that high of an emontional level for another full season ?
Im pretty sure they didn't sign anyone (FA) so they still
have everyone they had last year, I also have no idea if
they released the rights to any of there players. I would
expect 3-5 new faces on the bulls team next year, granted
there bench playing cogs but they could still have an
impact....
I forgot that Atlanta got a Center via FA but I would list
NY slightly ahead of Was/Ind/Atl with all there experience.
Plus they don't usally CHOKE until the Eastern Finals...
MaB
|
| 10.4492 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | watchman on the wall | Fri Aug 09 1996 20:37 | 1 |
| 10.4493 | | PECAD9::CHILDS | | Sat Aug 10 1996 12:03 | 5 |
| Why, they can have Chapman for less? Reggie's not a bad player but he's
inconsistent and doesn't have the heart after all them beatin's his sister
layed on him.
mike
|
| 10.4494 | Cruel!~ | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 12 1996 13:26 | 13 |
| > 10. Boston
> 11. Charlotte
Cruel, Nazz.
> 4. Atlanta
> 5. New York
Caint see this happening though. I look for New York to do their
semi-standard thing and finish just behind Jordan and the rest o' the
Bulls.
TTom
|
| 10.4495 | Hornets lacking sting this season (bad pun - sorry!) | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Mon Aug 12 1996 13:29 | 8 |
| Charlotte could've been last, but I didn't want you to feel the
situation was completely hopeless, TTom! ;-)
BTW, is Herr Shinn still thinkin' about a new building? I woulda
thought that squeezing 23,000 in the Hive was accomplishment enough.
Guess there's not enough luxury boxes, huh?
NAZZ
|
| 10.4496 | anybody need any stars? | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 12 1996 13:34 | 18 |
| Yeah, Nazz, Shinn is still contemplating moving either downtown or south
o' the border to beautiful Souf Carolina.
Shinn's thinking is to have a consortium of banks and the like fund the
whole thing while the city tax payers get to fork over 10s of millions of
dollars.
The way they work it here is to pretend that the locals don't pay for
things like football and basketball parlors. Then the bill comes out and
magically we've forked over a bunch, as in 60 million for Ericsson
Stadium that was billed as not costing us a penny.
In any case, Shinn claims that he caint make any money with the salaries
this high. He has yet to admit to the fack that he was one of the
principals in charge of ridiculous amounts of money. But, alas, LJ, like
Zo, is gone and now we're gonna be the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NBA.
TTom
|
| 10.4497 | Howard story | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 12 1996 14:45 | 72 |
|
Howard to return to Bullets as Heat drops claim
NEW YORK - Juwan Howard will be returning to the Washington Bullets
after his controversial contract issue was resolved by an agreement
Saturday among the NBA, the players union and the Miami Heat.
''Following the settlement between the NBA and the Miami Heat, we were
informed that our contract with Juwan Howard is in full force and
effect,'' Bullets general manager Wes Unseld said. ''We are very
pleased that Juwan will wear a Bullets uniform for years to come.''
Miami confirmed it has ''agreed on a settlement in the Juwan Howard
case,'' but had little else to say.
''The Heat will have further comment in the near future,'' said Heat
publicist Tim Donovan, adding: ''Alonzo Mourning will remain with the
Heat.''
In keeping Mourning, the day wasn't a total loss for the Heat, who had
recently signed both players to contracts totaling more than $200
million.
The problems started for the Heat when general manager-coach Pat
Riley, given the green light by owner Micky Arison, went on a spending
spree in the best free agent market in league history.
Riley had signed forward P.J. Brown and re-signed guard Tim Hardaway,
then landed his biggest catch by luring Howard away from the Bullets.
Pairing the 23-year-old All-Star forward with Mourning in the front
court immediately made Miami a top-level team.
Two weeks later, the NBA voided Howard's seven-year, $100.8 million
contract, saying it exceeded the team's salary cap. The ruling
provided an opening for Howard, who apparently had a change of heart
about leaving Washington and re-signed with the Bullets.
Announcement of the settlement came in statements from the NBA and the
National Basketball Players Association in New York.
Under terms of the agreement, the league said the Heat ''will no
longer contest the NBA's disapproval of the contract of Juwan Howard,
who will now become a member of the Washington Bullets.''
At the same time, the NBA announced that Mourning's seven-year, $112
million contract with the Heat, submitted to the league Saturday, has
been approved, along with those of Brown and Hardaway.
Under terms of Saturday's agreement, Howard will receive the same
salary in Washington that he would have made in Miami, according to
the union.
As part of the agreement, the NBA agreed to drop its claim that the
Heat and Mourning violated the salary cap rules. In addition, the
league agreed to drop its challenge of certain performance bonuses
contained in Hardaway's contract, and Hardaway and the Heat were
permitted to renegotiate those bonuses. They will not count against
Miami's salary cap.
''The Players Association agreed to this settlement because it
vindicates the rights of every player involved and preserves all of
our union's policy issues,'' union executive director Bill Hunter said
in a statement.
''The key for the association was that more players will have more
money, and have more freedom of choice, as a result of this
settlement.''
By The Associated Press
note: not mentioned in this is a detail: Miami is a little less than 5
million now under the cap.
|
| 10.4498 | Felton Spencer: the new Shaq | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 12 1996 15:03 | 9 |
| Orlando, just to remind ever one that they lost out in the Shaq
sweepstakes, has traded for Felton Spencer!~
Brooks Thompson and Kenny Gattison go to Utah.
Evidently, the possibility of having Jon Koncak as their starting center
was more than even the Magic could survive.
TTom
|
| 10.4500 | doubt it, but... | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Mon Aug 12 1996 17:00 | 9 |
| which we all know aint gonna happen, at least not IMO.
I look for this to be the end of the ever vigilant NBA looking into these
free agent mega contracts.
They busted the one they din't like. The like L.A. so there's no pressure
there.
TTom
|
| 10.4501 | Sheesh - Shinn's trying to prove PT Barnum right again | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Ain't no one gonna dog me down | Tue Aug 13 1996 13:45 | 12 |
| So let me get this straight, TTom.
Shinn is the firsted owner to incredibly overpay when he dishes out $84
million to LJ. Now he's complaining because he's paying too much in
player salaries so's he cain't make obscene profits. And this of
course is not his fault, but the fault of the fans. So for the fans to
make it up to him, he wants them to finance an even newer arena than
his seven year old building that holds 23,000.
That about it?
NAZZ
|
| 10.4502 | that it | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Tue Aug 13 1996 13:51 | 18 |
| > That about it?
You can leave out that "about".
There's one other nifty little thang he's been doing lately. In the
background, he's been contacting a lot of other sprots moguls tyring to
sell the team. When they don't wanna meet his offer he releases a story
to the press that the other guys had come to him and that he wasn't ready
to sell.
This went on in the papers for a couple of weeks with a wide variety of
"pursuers". Finally, one local guy, Bruton Smith of Charlotte Motor
Speedway fame, called bullsh*t after Shinn released a story that Smith
had made a_offer. Smith let ever one know that Shinn approached him.
Stay tuned.
TTom
|
| 10.4503 | 96-97 NBA Schedule | HBAHBA::HAAS | more madness, less horror | Fri Oct 04 1996 17:46 | 1551 |
| 10.4504 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | PM&D Tools Support | Wed Oct 30 1996 15:38 | 7 |
| 10.4505 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NEW YORK YANKEES WORLD CHAMPS | Wed Oct 30 1996 15:46 | 12 |
| 10.4506 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Wed Oct 30 1996 16:15 | 2 |
| 10.4507 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed Oct 30 1996 16:48 | 8 |
| 10.4508 | Rick Barry still sucks | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Welcome back, NBA! | Wed Oct 30 1996 17:43 | 14 |
| 10.4509 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Wed Oct 30 1996 18:16 | 7 |
| 10.4510 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Tastes like chicken. | Wed Oct 30 1996 19:17 | 5 |
| 10.4511 | | SALEM::DODA | Goodbye Gabriella... | Wed Oct 30 1996 19:21 | 1 |
| 10.4512 | :-( | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NEW YORK YANKEES WORLD CHAMPS | Wed Oct 30 1996 19:21 | 5 |
| 10.4513 | some already have in SI a few years back | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Wed Oct 30 1996 23:24 | 2 |
| 10.4514 | ONE DIMENSIONAL???? | FABSIX::R_LUCHT | "Ten Feet Tall and Bulletproof" | Thu Oct 31 1996 04:26 | 8 |
| 10.4515 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | A great face for radio... | Thu Oct 31 1996 11:33 | 12 |
| 10.4516 | Any movie with Jamie Lee Curtis has to be OK | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Welcome back, NBA! | Thu Oct 31 1996 14:36 | 10 |
| 10.4517 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Thu Oct 31 1996 14:40 | 1 |
| 10.4518 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Thu Oct 31 1996 15:21 | 10 |
| 10.4519 | See my publicist - she'll get you an 8 x 10 glossy | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Welcome back, NBA! | Thu Oct 31 1996 18:03 | 3 |
| 10.4520 | Rodman is overrated | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Thu Oct 31 1996 19:14 | 1 |
| 10.4521 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Fri Nov 01 1996 17:44 | 4 |
| 10.4522 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Fri Nov 01 1996 18:52 | 16 |
| 10.4523 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Fri Nov 01 1996 19:08 | 8 |
| 10.4524 | | OLD1S::CADZILLA2 | PM&D Tools Support | Fri Nov 01 1996 19:52 | 4 |
| 10.4525 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Tastes like chicken. | Fri Nov 01 1996 19:57 | 9 |
| 10.4526 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Fri Nov 01 1996 20:56 | 33 |
| 10.4527 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Fri Nov 01 1996 21:42 | 3 |
| 10.4528 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Sat Nov 02 1996 01:24 | 1 |
| 10.4529 | This is going to hurt, MikeyC... ;-) | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Burn Tempe to the Ground | Sun Nov 03 1996 11:42 | 17 |
| 10.4530 | Top 50 Thoughts | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun Nov 03 1996 14:23 | 33 |
| 10.4531 | Marbury Trade | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun Nov 03 1996 14:25 | 8 |
| 10.4532 | Top 50 List Please | ASDG::OSHAUGHNESSY | | Mon Nov 04 1996 11:36 | 4 |
| 10.4533 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | A great face for radio... | Mon Nov 04 1996 11:42 | 7 |
| 10.4534 | | MSBCS::BRYDIE | Tastes like chicken. | Mon Nov 04 1996 12:05 | 17 |
| 10.4535 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Nov 04 1996 13:33 | 9 |
| 10.4536 | Sure, as long as things are going his way... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Burn Tempe to the Ground | Mon Nov 04 1996 13:47 | 10 |
| 10.4537 | has nothing to do with NBA reality, but neither does the top-50 list... | IMBETR::DUPREZ | A great face for radio... | Mon Nov 04 1996 13:50 | 7 |
| 10.4538 | Celtics pocket schedules available | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Welcome back, NBA! | Mon Nov 04 1996 14:33 | 5 |
| 10.4539 | | ROCK::GRONOWSKI | | Mon Nov 04 1996 15:12 | 5 |
| 10.4540 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Mon Nov 04 1996 16:27 | 10 |
| 10.4541 | The top 50 list | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Mon Nov 04 1996 18:52 | 100 |
| 10.4542 | Mistake On My Part | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Nov 04 1996 19:55 | 2 |
| 10.4543 | HoF nominees | HBAHBA::HAAS | but the reply came from Anchorage | Tue Nov 05 1996 16:01 | 96 |
| 10.4544 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | A great face for radio... | Tue Nov 05 1996 16:25 | 1 |
| 10.4545 | a proposition? | HBAHBA::HAAS | but the reply came from Anchorage | Tue Nov 05 1996 16:26 | 5 |
| 10.4546 | Is he asking for too much $$$$ | BABAGI::BAILLIE | | Fri Nov 08 1996 14:01 | 4 |
| 10.4547 | waiting on new cap | HBAHBA::HAAS | but the reply came from Anchorage | Fri Nov 08 1996 14:06 | 7 |
| 10.4548 | You heard this one hear | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Nov 12 1996 12:50 | 5 |
| 10.4549 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | A great face for radio... | Tue Nov 12 1996 13:21 | 7 |
| 10.4550 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Tue Nov 12 1996 13:31 | 2 |
| 10.4551 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | | Tue Nov 12 1996 13:54 | 8 |
| 10.4552 | Russel/Wilt Interview | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Nov 19 1996 11:51 | 9 |
| 10.4553 | it was great | HBAHBA::HAAS | but the reply came from Anchorage | Tue Nov 19 1996 13:36 | 10 |
| 10.4554 | Compared to others, Russell is Wilt's best bud... | EDWIN::WAUGAMAN | Happy b-day Kevin my main | Tue Nov 19 1996 13:39 | 8 |
| 10.4555 | fan o' Wilt | HBAHBA::HAAS | but the reply came from Anchorage | Tue Nov 19 1996 13:48 | 12 |
| 10.4556 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Tue Nov 19 1996 13:54 | 3 |
| 10.4557 | could be rich now | HBAHBA::HAAS | but the reply came from Anchorage | Tue Nov 19 1996 13:56 | 6 |
| 10.4558 | News du jour | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Thu Nov 21 1996 19:41 | 10 |
| 10.4559 | How Long? | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun Nov 24 1996 13:01 | 6 |
| 10.4560 | See my rant in the Celtics note | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | BC - the next Holy Cross | Mon Nov 25 1996 13:39 | 5 |
| 10.4561 | Camby out 1-2 weeks | HBAHBA::HAAS | Thank ya just a whole lot. | Fri Dec 06 1996 17:55 | 17 |
| 10.4562 | Bulls > Lakers | HBAHBA::HAAS | Thank ya just a whole lot. | Wed Dec 18 1996 13:06 | 25 |
| 10.4563 | Finally, NBA action that was fan-tastic! | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | Bruiserball! | Wed Dec 18 1996 13:21 | 16 |
| 10.4564 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Wed Dec 18 1996 13:24 | 1 |
| 10.4565 | 'you've got to be taught' | HBAHBA::HAAS | Thank ya just a whole lot. | Wed Dec 18 1996 14:17 | 8 |
| 10.4566 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Wed Dec 18 1996 14:34 | 9 |
| 10.4567 | | FABSIX::R_LUCHT | "Ten Feet Tall and Bulletproof" | Thu Dec 19 1996 09:47 | 1 |
| 10.4568 | standings | HBAHBA::HAAS | Thank ya just a whole lot. | Thu Dec 26 1996 16:23 | 43 |
| 10.4569 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Fri Jan 03 1997 19:07 | 11 |
| 10.4570 | Cop out | HBAHBA::HAAS | Expansion Boy | Fri Jan 10 1997 17:45 | 65 |
| 10.4571 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Fri Jan 10 1997 17:55 | 1 |
| 10.4572 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Fri Jan 10 1997 18:12 | 8 |
| 10.4573 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Fri Jan 10 1997 18:14 | 4 |
| 10.4574 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NEW YORK YANKEES WORLD CHAMPS | Fri Jan 10 1997 18:45 | 3 |
| 10.4575 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Fri Jan 10 1997 18:53 | 8 |
| 10.4576 | One of The 80's Lakers Teams | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Jan 13 1997 15:05 | 13 |
| 10.4577 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Mon Jan 13 1997 15:48 | 7 |
| 10.4578 | Plus The 'Hot' Arena Incident!!! | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Jan 13 1997 16:29 | 8 |
| 10.4579 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Mon Jan 13 1997 16:30 | 2 |
| 10.4580 | More Accuracy from Mikey | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Jan 13 1997 16:33 | 3 |
| 10.4581 | | WMOIS::CHAPALONIS_M | NEW YORK YANKEES WORLD CHAMPS | Mon Jan 13 1997 17:12 | 9 |
| 10.4582 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Mon Jan 13 1997 18:30 | 5 |
| 10.4583 | Yes, They Missed '86 | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Mon Jan 13 1997 18:43 | 3 |
| 10.4584 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Mon Jan 13 1997 18:48 | 2 |
| 10.4585 | | NQOS01::nqsrv210.nqo.dec.com::Workbench | Pee Wee Herman's bodydouble | Tue Jan 14 1997 00:07 | 1 |
| 10.4586 | Lets Give Some Credit Where Credit's Due | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Jan 14 1997 11:03 | 8 |
| 10.4587 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Tue Jan 14 1997 12:04 | 2 |
| 10.4588 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Tue Jan 14 1997 13:44 | 2 |
| 10.4589 | Faking At What? | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Jan 14 1997 14:03 | 1 |
| 10.4590 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | R.I.O.T. | Tue Jan 14 1997 18:43 | 1 |
| 10.4591 | standings | HBAHBA::HAAS | Dorsey Levens Roolz!~ | Tue Jan 28 1997 15:18 | 41 |
|
EASTERN CONFERENCE
ATLANTIC W L PCT GB HOME ROAD DIV STREAK
MIAMI 31 12 .721 - 11-6 20-6 8-4 WON 1
NEW YORK 30 13 .698 1 18-4 12-9 12-3 WON 1
WASHINGTON 21 21 .500 9 1/2 11-9 10-12 5-6 WON 1
ORLANDO 19 19 .500 9 1/2 10-8 9-11 7-5 WON 4
NEW JERSEY 11 29 .275 18 1/2 6-13 5-16 3-7 LOST 2
BOSTON 9 30 .231 20 8-15 1-15 0-11 LOST 5
PHILADELPHIA 9 33 .214 21 1/2 4-17 5-16 6-5 LOST 2
CENTRAL W L PCT GB HOME ROAD DIV STREAK
CHICAGO 37 5 .881 - 21-1 16-4 13-2 WON 3
DETROIT 30 11 .732 6 1/2 18-4 12-7 10-5 WON 2
ATLANTA 28 12 .700 8 19-1 9-11 8-5 WON 2
CHARLOTTE 24 18 .571 13 12-5 12-13 5-8 LOST 1
CLEVELAND 23 18 .561 13 1/2 16-8 7-10 7-8 WON 1
MILWAUKEE 21 21 .500 16 12-11 9-10 4-10 WON 2
INDIANA 19 21 .475 17 8-9 11-12 4-6 LOST 2
TORONTO 14 27 .341 22 1/2 11-11 3-16 3-10 LOST 2
WESTERN CONFERENCE
MIDWEST W L PCT GB HOME ROAD DIV STREAK
HOUSTON 32 11 .744 - 16-7 16-4 7-3 LOST 1
UTAH 29 13 .690 2 1/2 18-2 11-11 7-4 WON 3
MINNESOTA 19 23 .452 12 1/2 13-6 6-17 7-4 LOST 1
DALLAS 14 26 .350 16 1/2 8-10 6-16 6-5 WON 1
DENVER 13 30 .302 19 7-15 6-15 4-9 WON 1
SAN ANTONIO 11 29 .275 19 1/2 7-12 4-17 6-6 LOST 1
VANCOUVER 8 37 .178 25 6-19 2-18 3-9 LOST 5
PACIFIC W L PCT GB HOME ROAD DIV STREAK
LA LAKERS 31 12 .721 - 19-4 12-8 12-2 WON 3
SEATTLE 30 13 .698 1 17-5 13-8 11-3 LOST 2
PORTLAND 25 18 .581 6 14-8 11-10 8-7 WON 2
SACRAMENTO 18 25 .419 13 12-10 6-15 3-9 LOST 1
GOLDEN STATE 17 25 .405 13 1/2 10-11 7-14 2-8 WON 1
LA CLIPPERS 16 24 .400 13 1/2 9-11 7-13 4-7 WON 2
PHOENIX 15 28 .349 16 11-10 4-18 3-7 LOST 3
|
| 10.4592 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Wed Jan 29 1997 12:39 | 11 |
| Now that we shift our focus to the NBA, the biggest question I got to ask is
has Grant Hill supplanted his Airness as best in the game? It's my opinion
that he has. Sure Mikey's outscoring him but Grant's running the show and
imo doing more to help his team win. He's also starting to realize he's
unstoppable if he wants to be. To bad Mutumbo went to Atlanta instead of
here.
Anybody else catch Walton taking Hill to the carpet for his comment that
Larry Johnson was a more complete player than Anthony Mason????
mc
|
| 10.4593 | sort agree and disagree | HBAHBA::HAAS | Dorsey Levens Roolz!~ | Wed Jan 29 1997 12:54 | 18 |
| >Anybody else catch Walton taking Hill to the carpet for his comment that
>Larry Johnson was a more complete player than Anthony Mason????
Based on talent, I agree: LJ > Mason.
However, based on effort and accomplishment it's Mason >> LJ by a wide
margin.
If'n LJ played with the intensity of Mason, he'd be up there with the
likes of Barkley. Unfortunately, LJ is short on heart, Mason's bestest
suit.
As to Grant Hill supplanting Jordan, I disagree. I had thought that ol'
Michael was having a swan song but then I caught a couple of their games
without Rodman. In one, Ron Harper was missing. MJ carried the Bulls to
wins.
TTom
|
| 10.4594 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:16 | 12 |
|
Question for the rules hounds. In last nights Denver-Utah game I saw
numerous plays where I thought an assist should have been awarded, but
wasn't.
Situation: player drives into the lane and throws the ball out to a
wide open player #2 beyond the 3-pt line, player #2 hits the basket.
Should the assist be given?
Marc
|
| 10.4595 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:16 | 9 |
|
like you I'm speaking based only on what I've seen. I agree with Walton who
ignored the heart issue which is a given, is LJ a better ballhandler? no, His
he a better rebounder? no. Is he a better passer? even imo leaning towards
Mason who probably gets more opportunities because he handles it better and
Mason has picked up his scoring. Sure Larry looks pretty and has the big time
rep but as a player he's less talented than Mason even without the heart.
mike
|
| 10.4596 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:18 | 4 |
| I'm not a rules freak but if the player 2 didn't dribble, I'd give player 1
an assist cause he obviously got player 2 the ball in his spot and probably
created an open look in the process as player 2's man probably drop off to
help.
|
| 10.4597 | | IMBETR::DUPREZ | A great face for radio... | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:20 | 6 |
| .Question for the rules hounds. In last nights Denver-Utah game I saw
.numerous plays where I thought an assist should have been awarded,
.but wasn't.
I'll leave it to Nazz, but chances are, in a Western Conference
game, if it's not called an assist, there's no way it was an assist.
|
| 10.4598 | :=] | HBAHBA::HAAS | Dorsey Levens Roolz!~ | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:29 | 6 |
| > Should the assist be given?
I think I remember Nazz's take on this as one of those Larry Bird rules:
If'n it's Larry it's a_assist.
TTom
|
| 10.4599 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:31 | 3 |
| How do you know at the time if it's an assist. I haven't been to the
fleet or elsewhere - do they have an assist button on the scoreboard
like the fenway error/hit light?
|
| 10.4600 | some show 'em | HBAHBA::HAAS | Dorsey Levens Roolz!~ | Wed Jan 29 1997 13:35 | 8 |
| billte,
At the Hive, they keep a tally of assists, rebounds, and steals in what
they call the Hustle Stats. If'n you keep track of it, you can tell when
one of the above is credited. However, I've also seen 'em "synchronize"
it with the official scoring at the end of quarters.
TTom
|
| 10.4601 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Wed Jan 29 1997 15:00 | 8 |
| re .4599,
At the Fleet if Nazz says its an assist its and assist. During the
game you usually don't know who has what for pts, rebounds, assists,
etc... unless you listen to the announcer. Of course at halftime you
can go bug Nazz on the floor, for the halftime printouts.
Ron
|
| 10.4602 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Wed Jan 29 1997 15:03 | 4 |
| Perhaps Nazz could come up with some secret sign to let all the DECcies and
ex-DECcies in the audience know if it's an assist.
If he scratches his head, it's an assist, you know something like that....
|
| 10.4603 | I really hated giving Mark Jackson 16 assists this year | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Wed Jan 29 1997 17:15 | 17 |
| This is the only rule I use when giving assists at the FleeceCenter
(tm) - if the player is on my fantasy team, it's always an assist;
otherwise follow the NBA rule.
I've done this before, but I'm always glad to do it again. Here is the
direct quote regarding assists from the NBA Statistician's Manual: "An
assist is credited to the player tossing the last pass leading directly
to a field goal, if the player responds by demonstrating immediate
reaction toward the basket."
They also differentiate between a player who dribbles, fakes, then
scores (that gets an assist) to a player who dribbles, STOPS, fakes,
and scores (that gets no assist). Also spelled out are long passes
that lead to a basket, passes on a fast break, and inbounds passes that
lead directly to a basket, even on a tip in.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4604 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Jan 29 1997 17:34 | 2 |
| so if you lob the ball off the glass, grab it, and then dunk it, you
should get the points and the assist ;-)
|
| 10.4605 | and a rebound, too | HBAHBA::HAAS | Dorsey Levens Roolz!~ | Wed Jan 29 1997 17:36 | 0 |
| 10.4606 | Gots to be two different guys | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Wed Jan 29 1997 18:43 | 4 |
| I know this is obvious, but you cain't git a rebound and a assist on
the same play.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4607 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Wed Jan 29 1997 18:59 | 3 |
| You can't rebound your own ball if it only hits glass - that would be a
travel. In fact (Nazz?) doesn't it have to touch rim to qualify for a
rebound. If it was an airball can it be a rebound? Just glass?
|
| 10.4608 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Wed Jan 29 1997 19:52 | 8 |
| >You can't rebound your own ball if it only hits glass - that would be
>a travel.
Well if that is the case then Rodman only gets 10 rebounds a game
instead of 16.
Marc
|
| 10.4609 | Read again | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Wed Jan 29 1997 19:58 | 5 |
| >>You can't rebound your own ball if it only hits glass - that would be
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>a travel.
|
| 10.4610 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Thu Jan 30 1997 11:40 | 1 |
| you've said it twice now and I'm still not buying it.
|
| 10.4611 | You don't agree? | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Thu Jan 30 1997 12:53 | 14 |
| Mikey, I underlined it because I assumed he hadn't seen those words.
Are you saying that you don't believe that you cannot be the next
person to touch the ball in that event. You cannot use the backboard
to save your dribble, you do know that.
Now perhaps you're thinking of a case where you rebound and keep the
ball alive off the glass. I didn't mean this. But passing or shooting
off the glass alone is the same as passing to yourself - you do agree
that that is a travel, correct?
I was going to say if the ball hit the floor it could be recovered but
I think if it doesn't hit the rim it has to be touch by another first.
billte
|
| 10.4612 | but what if'n he don't move? | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Thu Jan 30 1997 12:56 | 8 |
| billte,
There may be a minor point missing here. According to your assertion, the
guy must be moving. Certainly, if'n whoever merely stands in place and
boings it off the board without moving there's no penalty assuming the
shot clock aint gone off.
TTom
|
| 10.4613 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Thu Jan 30 1997 13:01 | 3 |
| And you can pass to yourself if you don't move. If you're in the air
and pass off the bboard that's okay. It's as if the bboard is not
there in terms of travel or no.
|
| 10.4614 | Can't just toss it up and catch it, though | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Thu Jan 30 1997 13:44 | 5 |
| Rebound rule says you can get your own shot as long as it was a legit
shot attempt, and that does count as an offensive rebound. Doesn't
matter if it hits the rim or not.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4615 | | CSC32::MACGREGOR | Colorado: the TRUE mid-west | Thu Jan 30 1997 14:05 | 10 |
|
>Rebound rule says you can get your own shot as long as it was a legit
>shot attempt, and that does count as an offensive rebound. Doesn't
>matter if it hits the rim or not.
Which is a rule change from the last year or two. ie, it USED to be
traveling, but that is no longer the case.
Marc
|
| 10.4616 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Thu Jan 30 1997 18:24 | 10 |
| Thanks marc, Mikey would've roasted me on this one.
Speaking of rules whatever ever happened to the violation for the two
handed dribble. I recall seeing it called once, long ago and in the
ncaa playoffs of all places and critical. But today it is routinely
done in both college and pro and I doubt it could be called without
mahem ensuing.
But isn't it still on the books?
|
| 10.4617 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Jan 30 1997 18:48 | 1 |
| traveling is still in the books too and they don't call it.
|
| 10.4618 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Thu Jan 30 1997 19:01 | 15 |
| Well what they have definitely done is go off to a room with tapes of
Jordan etc and break them down and somehow they came up with
the bunny hop is legal. Same principal as the pivot, turn and layup so
they say
step and a half for possession. I swear Tiny Archibald pattented this.
This all led to dribble, one, two, "pivot", three and leap.
Then you have the carry but why blow the whistle becoming the Iverson
cross-over.
Final result you cannot compare 1958-1977 basketball with present.
But where's the judgement call on a two-handed dribble?
|
| 10.4619 | shuffle on | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Fri Jan 31 1997 12:53 | 14 |
| > step and a half for possession. I swear Tiny Archibald pattented this.
> This all led to dribble, one, two, "pivot", three and leap.
I don't know who predates whom but we always called this the Carolina
Shuffle. You take a step and a half or maybe even 2 as you catch the ball
and then you move both feet afore initiating the dribble. It's hardly
ever called.
The NBA is a total joke on how things are called. Part of the problem is
that most of the refs just caint keep up with the pace. My suggestion for
that is to add another ref and that way they can basically stay on one
side of the court or the other.
TTom
|
| 10.4620 | Mailman gets riled | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Fri Jan 31 1997 13:08 | 15 |
| Caught a little bit a good game lasted night.
Utah was hosting Atlanta who's about as hot as anyone thised side of the
Bulls. At a critical junction in the 4th, the Mailman tried to take it to
the hole only to be thwarted by Mutombo who promptly did his little wave
the finger thing.
Ol' Karl failed to see the humor. He proceeded to completely take over
and dominate the game, the Hawks, and pointedly Mutombo. He started with
a couple three jump shots that brought the D out and then took it in, up
and over.
Final score: Utah 102, Atlanta 96.
TTom
|
| 10.4621 | Traveling has been addressed; carrying the ball should be next | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Fri Jan 31 1997 13:25 | 16 |
| I am really tired of people like Mikey Heiser who give that typical
knee-jerk reply that they never call traveling in the NBA. In fact,
they call legitimate traveling in the NBA a lot, and have made it a
focal point for refs the past two years. For those who watch more than
an occasional game, you will notice that the quick shuffling of feet
before a drive is almost always called a travel these days, and the
players h ave adjusted to it. Bottom line is that there is much less
traveling done in the NBA these days, and almost none on the first step
off the dribble.
Now if they just make carrying the basketball the next focal point.
Iverson in particular will take a dribble, place his hand UNDER the
ball, take two to five steps, then dribble again. I don't care how
fast the guy is, that's not allowed.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4622 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Jan 31 1997 13:40 | 1 |
| So 2-3 steps on a breakaway is okay now?
|
| 10.4623 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Fri Jan 31 1997 13:43 | 6 |
|
agreed Nazz but when are they going to crack down on the extra steps? I'd
rather they addressed that than the carryover. Far more players think a
third or a fourth step is their God given right...........
mc
|
| 10.4624 | some guys opinion on the draft | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Fri Jan 31 1997 19:20 | 106 |
|
Leventhal's top 75 NBA draft picks
By Don Leventhal
Special to ESPNET SportsZone
_________________________________________________________________
Here is an early ranking of the top 75 prospects for the 1997 NBA
Draft (as of January 28, 1996):
No. Player Pos. Ht. Wt. School
1 Tim Duncan C 6-10 248 Wake Forest
2 Ron Mercer* F-G 6-7 210 Kentucky
3 Tim Thomas* PF 6-9 1/2 240 Villanova
4 Keith Van Horn SF 6-9 1/2 235 Utah
5 Jacque Vaughn PG 6-1 195 Kansas
6 Danny Fortson* F 6-7 260 Cincinnati
7 Brevin Knight PG 5-10 173 Stanford
8 Tony Battie* F-C 6-11 225 Texas Tech
9 Alexander Koul* C 7-1 296 George Washington
10 James Cotton* SG 6-5 200 Long Beach St.
11 Antawn Jamison* SF 6-8 216 North Carolina
12 Cory Carr SG 6-4 200 Texas Tech
13 Brian Skinner* PF 6-10 245 Baylor
14 Anthony Parker SG 6-5 185 Bradley
15 Tracy McGrady# F-G 6-8 195 Mt. Zion Christian (NC)
16 Kelvin Cato C-F 6-11 255 Iowa State
17 Jason Lawson C-F 6-11 235 Villanova
18 Shea Seals SG 6-5 210 Tulsa
19 J.R. Henderson* SF 6-9 223 UCLA
20 Matt Harpring* SF 6-7 228 Georgia Tech
21 Maurice Taylor* F 6-8 1/2 235 Michigan
22 Reggie Freeman SG 6-6 200 Texas
23 Austin Croshere SF 6-9 230 Providence
24 Marc Jackson* PF 6-9 270 Temple
25 Jelani McCoy* PF 6-10 220 UCLA
26 Derek Anderson SG 6-4 200 Kentucky (Injured)
27 Chauncey Billups* PG 6-3 202 Colorado
28 Jerald Honeycutt SF 6-8 245 Tulane
29 Keon Clark* C-F 6-11 220 UNLV
30 Alvin Williams PG 6-4 1/2 180 Villanova
31 Andre Woolridge PG 6-1 190 Iowa
32 Chris Anstey C 7-0 235 Australia Pro League
33 Maceo Baston* F 6-9 215 Michigan
34 Toby Bailey* SG 6-5 205 UCLA
35 Scot Pollard PF 6-10 250 Kansas (Injured)
36 Isaac Fontaine SG 6-3 215 Washington State
37 Charles O'Bannon F-G 6-5 209 UCLA
38 Serge Zwikker C 7-2 265 North Carolina
39 Eric Washington SG 6-4 190 Alabama
40 Lorenzo Coleman C 7-1 295 Tennessee Tech
41 Kenny Thomas* PF 6-8 263 New Mexico
42 Ronnie Fields* SG 6-3 185 Rockford (CBA)
43 DeJuan Wheat PG 6-0 165 Louisville
44 Miles Simon* SG 6-5 195 Arizona
45 Kiwane Garris PG 6-2 183 Illinois
46 Odell Hodge PF 6-9 280 Old Dominion
47 Ed Gray SG 6-3 210 California
48 Johnny Taylor SF 6-8 215 Tennessee-Chat.
49 Peter Aluma F-C 6-10 240 Liberty
50 Garth Joseph* C 7-2 291 St. Rose
51 Nate Erdmann G 6-5 195 Oklahoma
52 Rodrick Rhodes SF 6-6 220 USC
53 James Collins SG 6-4 190 Florida State
54 Tunji Awojobi SF 6-7 235 Boston U.
55 Mark Sanford* SF 6-8 200 Washington
56 Jared Prickett F 6-9 235 Kentucky
57 Dedric Willoughby SG 6-3 190 Iowa State
58 Harold Deane PG 6-1 1/2 175 Virginia
59 Damon Flint SG 6-5 205 Cincinnati
60 Ace Custis SF 6-7 217 Virginia Tech
61 Edgar Padilla PG 6-1 1/2 175 Massachusetts
62 Eddie Elisma PF 6-9 210 Georgia Tech
63 Charles Smith SG 6-4 194 New Mexico
64 Jerod Haase SG 6-3 185 Kansas
65 Bubba Wells SG 6-5 225 Austin Peay
66 Greg Newton PF 6-10 220 Duke
67 Mikki Moore PF 6-11 220 Nebraska
68 Keith Booth SF 6-6 222 Maryland
69 Danya Abrams PF 6-7 265 Boston College
70 Stais Boseman SG 6-4 200 USC
71 Shaun Igo PF 6-11 225 Rice
72 Antonio Daniels PG 6-4 195 Bowling Green
73 Jeff Myers PG 6-2 185 Drexel
74 Lee Wilson C 6-11 260 Arkansas
75 Kirk King SF 6-8 236 Connecticut (Suspended)
*-Underclassman
#-High School Player
Note: While certain players, such as Colgate's Adonal Foyle,
Stanford's Tim Young and Kansas' Raef LaFrentz and Paul Pierce would
be rated very highly among this group, I am not listing them at this
time because I do not believe they're leaning toward making themselves
available for the 1997 NBA Draft. The underclassmen and high school
players that are listed are those that I believe are giving a lot of
consideration to making themselves available for the '97 Draft.
Undoubtedly, many of the underclassmen presently listed will make
themselves available for this year's draft, while some will decide to
remain in school. Only time will tell.
Don Leventhal has been writing draft previews for more than a decade.
He returns this season for ESPNET and he will update his rankings
periodically leading up to the NBA draft. For further information on
purchasing his two-part draft report (including 60 total pages),
contact him at 800-950-3201.
|
| 10.4625 | Lynam canned | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Wed Feb 05 1997 18:29 | 20 |
| Wail, the NBA got tired of the NFL having all this coaches coming and
going stuff so they got into the act.
The currently named Bullets fired Jim Lynam as their head coach and
promoted Bob Staak, formerly of Wake Forest.
Lynam had been speculated as being under the gun. Basically, Washington
was perceived to be a_up-and-coming team. They spent some good bucks to
get some free agents and after the league stepped in were allowed to keep
Juwann Howard even though they renounced him.
It was about ever one's expectation that the Bullets would be in the
thick of things in the East. Right now, they're at 22-24 with a 3-game
loss streak.
Or course, this aint the firsted this year for the league. Danny Ainge,
Dick Motta, Gregg Popovich and Stu Jackson have already replaced the head
coaches at Phoenix, Denver, San Antonio and Vancouver, respectively.
TTom
|
| 10.4626 | God Bless ML Carr!!!!! | PECAD8::CHILDS | Steelers get a pants-down spanking | Wed Feb 05 1997 18:36 | 0 |
| 10.4627 | An American Hero | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Wed Feb 05 1997 20:12 | 118 |
| Reproduced without permission
Rodman to rejoin Bulls after All-Star break
By Hal Bock, Associated Press, 02/05/97; 00:01
NEW YORK (AP) - Dennis Rodman is ready to play - for free.
Rodman, suspended by the NBA since kicking a cameraman on Jan. 15, was
reinstated by the league on Tuesday and will return to the Chicago
Bulls on Feb. 11.
Rodman's agent, Dwight Manley, said his client will play his first 11
games after the suspension for free as a gesture of appreciation to
his fans. Manley said Rodman will ``donate the money on behalf of
himself and the Bulls to 11 assorted charities.''
Asked why Rodman decided to make the charitable donation, Manley said:
``Because he'll be the first person to say, `I deserve more money and
pay me more money,' and when he makes a mistake, he'll be the first
person to say, `I don't deserve the money,' and he wants to thank his
fans for sticking with him.''
Rodman and Manley attended Tuesday night's game between the Los
Angeles Lakers and Los Angeles Clippers at Anaheim Arena, showing up
with 4 minutes left in the first half.
``I think it's unfortunate for the fans and everybody else that it
occurred,'' Rodman said, referring to the kicking incident. ``I'm glad
I can come back and play like I do again.
``I could say I'm sorry until I'm blue in the face, and it wouldn't
prove anything. But I'm going to play for free. That shows that it
isn't all about money.''
Rodman's 11-game suspension will cost him more than $1 million in
salary and incentives. Manley said Rodman will donate his regular
salary to charity during his first 11 games back, but the agent did
not say what the exact total would be.
When asked if he was returning with a clean slate, Rodman said, ``I
just live life day-to-day. I'm not going to change the way I am. My
goal is still to contribute and be on one of the greatest teams of all
time.''
Rodman and Manley sat courtside underneath one of the baskets. They
were left alone by the fans until halftime, when Rodman was besieged
by autograph seekers, many of whom he accommodated.
Rodman is eligible to return against the Charlotte Hornets, the Bulls'
first game after the All-Star break. However, NBA commissioner David
Stern warned that Rodman could face banishment from the league if his
conduct continues to be a problem.
Bulls' teammate Scottie Pippen said he doesn't think Rodman will
change his aggressive style on the court.
``He's still going to be the same type of player that he's always
been,'' Pippen said prior to Tuesday night's game at Portland. ``He's
going to go after the ball and after whatever because he wants that
attention.''
Pippen made it clear he doesn't approve of Rodman's antics.
``I have a problem with it,'' Pippen said. ``It's pretty stupid. ...
But he's not going to change for me. He's just going to have to deal
with the consequences whenever he gets caught.''
Manley said that Rodman will probably watch Wednesday night's
Bulls-Lakers game at the Forum in Inglewood, Calif. - the 11th and
final game of the suspension - on TV at Manley's house.
Rodman, who had been ordered to undergo counseling during his
suspension, met Stern last Friday to make his case for reinstatement.
``I am satisfied that Dennis recognizes that his conduct in the
Minnesota game was unacceptable,'' Stern said. ``Dennis told me that
while he does not plan to change the way he plays the game, he will
conform his conduct on the playing court to acceptable standards, and
he knows that any further incidents of this nature may end his career
in the NBA.''
Also at the Jan. 31 meeting was Dr. Lloyd Baccus, medical director of
the league's player assistance program.
``What the commissioner wanted was professional input in reaching his
decision and the doctor was able to provide that,'' NBA spokesman
Brian McIntyre said.
It was not clear whether Rodman had actually undergone the counseling
ordered by Stern.
``I'm glad that the meeting proved fruitful with the commissioner last
week, and that we can put this incident behind us,'' Manley said.
Manley said Rodman's charity pledge is groundbreaking.
``It's a first,'' Manley added. ``Whereas sports is so wrapped up in
money all the time, he wants to make a statement that Dennis Rodman
plays from his heart and not from his wallet, and he's out there with
one intention, and that's to win.
``The best way to show that is giving up money not by order, but by
choice.''
Rodman, whose body piercings, tattoos, rainbow hairstyles and
cross-dressing have drawn as much attention as his rebounding prowess,
has been suspended nine times since 1992 and three times since last
March. During this suspension, the Bulls had an 8-1 record.
Rodman, who has led the league in rebounding the last five years, had
been fined and suspended without pay after he kicked courtside
cameraman Eugene Amos during a game between the Bulls and Minnesota
Timberwolves.
After he was suspended Jan. 17, Rodman reached an out-of-court
settlement with Amos, agreeing to pay him $200,000.
|
| 10.4628 | Cross-posted from Celtics file | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Thu Feb 06 1997 14:52 | 32 |
|
1996 FIRST ROUND ROOKIE STATS, AS OF FEBRUARY 3, 1997
# Player Min FG FGA PCT 3pt 3pa PCT FT FTA PCT REB AST TO ST BL AVE
1 Iverson, PH 1568 311 771 .39 78 247 .31 216 316 .68 170 282 190 90 16 22.9
2 Camby, TOR 741 145 296 .49 1 9 .11 76 110 .69 148 33 53 32 58 13.1
3 A-Rahim, VAN 1596 302 685 .44 0 13 .00 212 288 .74 304 86 113 49 50 17.0
4 Marbury, MN 1080 181 443 .41 56 150 .36 115 157 .73 84 235 97 33 10 16.2
5 Allen, MIL 1376 206 481 .42 60 153 .38 99 128 .77 180 120 81 46 4 12.7
6 Walker, BOS 1360 256 584 .44 11 44 .25 104 187 .56 353 94 102 49 27 14.6
7 Wright, LAC 756 94 209 .45 1 3 .33 36 65 .55 173 19 31 21 14 5.6
8 Kittles, NJ 1717 255 616 .41 80 222 .36 87 115 .76 169 140 71 89 16 15.4
9 Walker, DAL 266 44 96 .45 0 0 --- 20 37 .54 67 8 18 7 11 5.4
10 Dampier, IND 695 87 222 .39 0 0 --- 67 100 .67 191 30 58 13 56 6.2
13 Bryant, LAL 528 87 206 .42 25 69 .36 64 80 .80 72 40 61 22 16 7.1
15 Nash, PHO 569 62 143 .43 19 47 .40 40 49 .82 50 118 54 19 0 4.6
18 Wallace, NY 574 85 168 .51 1 3 .33 56 79 .70 108 29 56 18 21 5.5
22 Rogers, VAN 952 142 282 .50 0 0 --- 29 50 .58 209 20 49 11 99 6.4
29 Knight, LAL 568 66 130 .51 0 0 --- 27 50 .54 163 21 24 13 29 4.1
NOTE: 11 Todd Fuller GSW, 12 Vitaly Potpenko CLE, 16 Tony Delk CHA,
17 Jermaine O'Neal POR and 24 Derek Fisher (LAL) are playing but have not
accumulated enough playing time to warrant their inclusion here.
19 Walter McCarty NYK, 25 Martin Muursepp MIA, 26 Jerome Williams DET,
27 Brian Evans ORL, and 28 Priest Lauderdale ATL have received very little PT.
14 Predrag Stojakovic and 23 Efthimus Rantzius are playing in Europe.
20 Zydrunas Ilgauskas CLE and 21 Dontae Jones NYK are injured, out for the year.
|
| 10.4629 | Nelson da Mavs GM | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Fri Feb 07 1997 15:19 | 4 |
| Sportscenter is reporting that Don Helson was been hired by the Mavs for
their GM job.
TTom
|
| 10.4630 | | CNTROL::CHILDS | | Mon Feb 10 1997 13:12 | 7 |
|
My hats off to Shaq. Realizing he didn't belong on the 50 greatest, he
took a powder and didn't show. I wonder if the fans would have booed
him had he shown. I thought my man Cowens was going to cry. Jabbar
looked like he needed a fix.
mc
|
| 10.4631 | we shall see | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Mon Feb 10 1997 15:08 | 19 |
| ... and Jordan and Rice carried the East to the victory.
Jordan had the firsted triple-double and Rice set scoring records for
most points in a quarter and in a half on route to the MVP.
This All Star game really looked like a changing of the guards. Sure,
Jordan, Pippen, et. al. were there but so were the likes of Terrell
Brandon, Vin Baker, Eddie Jones, Kevin Garnett, etc.
With Jordan doing his now annual threatening of the Bulls if'n Jackson
leaves, the league better determine who were all supposed to start rootin
for.
The top candidates would seem to be Grant Hill and Shaq. They've been
pushing Shaq but the public may not place that high regard on a player
who mostly hangs out within 10 feet of one basket. Hill seems to be
missing the major ego that superstars often have.
TTom
|
| 10.4632 | What A Sweet Shot | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Tue Feb 11 1997 12:01 | 4 |
| I still remember Rice from his Michigan days. His shot was so
sweet that you knew it would fare just fine at the next level.
Tony
|
| 10.4633 | keeps me going | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Tue Feb 11 1997 12:52 | 6 |
| Rice has a real stroke. You're mostly surprised when some of the shots
don't go in.
Rice and Anthony Mason provide some good NBA across the street.
TTom
|
| 10.4634 | Shaq out 8-10 weeks | HBAHBA::HAAS | Come on down, Gilbert Brown | Fri Feb 14 1997 13:44 | 6 |
| Shaq is down and out for somewhere in the 8-10 week range.
Just after coming back from one knee injury, he hyperextended the other
won and did some real damage to a buncha parts, including ligaments.
TTom
|
| 10.4635 | | MYLIFE::mccarthy | Mike McCarthy SHR3-1/P32 237-2468 | Fri Feb 14 1997 19:13 | 5 |
| ESPN is reporting that the Mavs are trading Jamal Mashburn
to the Miami Heat for Sasha Danilovic, Martin Muursepp, and
Kurt Thomas.
Mike
|
| 10.4636 | | MYLIFE::mccarthy | Mike McCarthy SHR3-1/P32 237-2468 | Tue Feb 18 1997 12:42 | 7 |
| The Mavs are at it again. They trade Jimmy Jackson, Chris Gatling,
Eric Montross, Sam Cassell, and George McCloud to the Nets for
Shawn Bradley, Khalid Reeves, Robert Pack, and Ed O'Bannon.
Who is paying Don Nelson to be the GM, the Mavs or the Celts?
Mike
|
| 10.4637 | Some Celtic dreaming, thanks to Nellie | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Tue Feb 18 1997 13:10 | 11 |
| NIce to see Nellie showing some of that old Celtic loyalty, whether
it's a conscious display or not. Seems to me now that the Mavs won't
be any better than the 5th worst team in the NBA. So, if the Celts
continue their quest for the first pick, they could be picking #1 and
#5. Not too shabby. How about Duncan and Mercer, then add Pitino to
coach his two prodigies? Mercer can play small forward, and Rick Fox
can buy out of his contract and go elsewhere. A frontline of Duncan,
Walker, and Mercer, backed up by Radja and Williams, is pretty
impressive.
NAZZ
|
| 10.4638 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | | Tue Feb 18 1997 13:32 | 3 |
|
Sounds great Nazz, assuming Wesley at the point why isn't Williams playing
the 2?
|
| 10.4639 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Tue Feb 18 1997 14:08 | 11 |
| Mercer really impressed me last year. I thought he was the best player
Kentucky had and he didn't technically start. He was the difference vs
UMass.
Dallas got rid of potential for production "today". Nets may benefit
quite a bit but Dallas may win more games with these bodies than with
the previous. All agreed they had to do something?
Mercer will be a top three pick. If they lose Duncan they might take
him but it would seem Fortson is more of a need. Then again, Mercer
could become a great star.
|
| 10.4640 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Feb 18 1997 14:44 | 6 |
| Good, we'll finally get the Celtics back into the mix next year. They
should still add a big name free agent on top of the 2 lottery picks.
Make them more competitive as the youngsters mature. There should be a
decent crop of FA's this summer.
Mike
|
| 10.4641 | | BIGQ::MCKAY | | Tue Feb 18 1997 15:57 | 4 |
| have to wonder if "getting rid of the entire team from last year" has
ever happened in the history of the game.
Jimbo
|
| 10.4642 | Orlando fires Brian Hill | HBAHBA::HAAS | netwrok spatialist | Tue Feb 18 1997 16:44 | 8 |
| SportsZone is reporting that the Magic have canned Brian Hill as their
coach.
They lost to Charlotte lasted night. The game was fairly close until the
seconded half. The Bugs went on a run, Penny went down with a big toe
sprain and Orlando ended up losing, 124-110.
TTom
|
| 10.4643 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Feb 18 1997 17:01 | 3 |
| Turnaround is common in the NBA now. Take the 2 teams that went to the
Finals in '93: Chicago & Phoenix. Chicago only has 2 players still
from that team (MJ & Pippen). Phoenix only has 1 (KJ).
|
| 10.4644 | Eight months experience is the guy who's been there longest | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Tue Feb 18 1997 18:23 | 5 |
| Yeah, but the turnaround in Dallas has taken place since June. Samaki
Walker is the veteran of the team as far as experience with the Mavs
goes, and he was drafted in June!
NAZZ
|
| 10.4645 | | DELNI::FORGET | | Wed Feb 19 1997 10:28 | 5 |
|
Don Nelson is a regular Bobby Palmer, the Celtics should of signed
Donnie up. Earlier spring cleaning down in Big D.
|
| 10.4646 | | CAM::WAY | and keep me steadfast | Wed Feb 19 1997 11:50 | 7 |
| >
> Don Nelson is a regular Bobby Palmer, the Celtics should of signed
> Donnie up. Earlier spring cleaning down in Big D.
>
What's going to be interesting then, is if the Mavs become a chip company 8^)
|
| 10.4647 | <expletive> funny | HBAHBA::HAAS | netwrok spatialist | Wed Feb 19 1997 12:33 | 11 |
| >What's going to be interesting then, is if the Mavs become a chip company 8^)
Pretzel logic there, Sawmain.
I liked ol' Nellies commentary on how the players he traded were the ones
that complained about the coach and how they <expletive> complained about
ever coach and that they were <expletive> babies.
Coach Cal deadpanned that he should let us know how he really feels.
TTom
|
| 10.4648 | deadline trades | HBAHBA::HAAS | still not dead yet | Fri Feb 21 1997 15:15 | 18 |
| Summary of NBA trades:
LA LAKERS traded C JOE KLEINE, thised year's 1st round pick and a
conditional 2nd round pick to NEW JERSEY for F GEORGE MCCLOUD, recently
acquired in the Dallas trade.
INDIANA traded F VINCENT ASKEW and F EDDIE JOHNSON to DENVER for MARK
JACKSON and LASALLE THOMPSON. EJ's back with Allen Bristow and Jackson
and Thompson return to the Pacers.
CHARLOTTE traded G SCOTT BURRELL to GOLDEN STATE for F DONALD ROYAL.
CHARLOTTE traded C GEORGE ZIDEK and G ANTHONY GOLDWIRE to DENVER for G
RICKY PIERCE.
TORONTO traded G SHAWN RESPERT to MILWAUKEE for F ACIE EARL.
INDIANA traded G JEROME ALLEN to DENVER for F DARVIN HAM.
|
| 10.4649 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Fri Feb 21 1997 15:34 | 3 |
| looks like a lot of salary moves.
At least the Pacers admitted their mistake.
|
| 10.4650 | big dollars soon | HBAHBA::HAAS | still not dead yet | Fri Feb 21 1997 15:42 | 5 |
| Mark Jackson going back to the Pacers was prolly the biggest cap move.
Jackson has several years left on his contract and will end up costing
Indiana a bunch.
TTom
|
| 10.4651 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri Feb 21 1997 16:06 | 7 |
|
I don't think Indiana is worried about the salary cap at the
moment. They just resigned Dale Davis, Antonio Davis, and Reggie
Miller during the off-season. Plus, I think Rik Smits has about 2
or 3 years left on his contract.
Ron
|
| 10.4652 | bad shape | HBAHBA::HAAS | still not dead yet | Fri Feb 21 1997 16:22 | 15 |
| Ron,
That brings up another question. The Pacer already showed what they
thought of Jackson by trading him.
Now with his return, and the signings of the other players, the Pacers
are basically stuck with the same group of players that have never been
able to win much. This group not only won't beat Chicago but they're
losing ground to the Knicks, and the Heat.
Also, I'm not sure how long Smits will be around. His wheels are getting
worser ever year. Without him, the Pacers or sub .500 even with the Davis
guys and Miller.
TTom
|
| 10.4653 | Say hello to the lottery for the next five years, Indiana | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Fri Feb 21 1997 16:28 | 7 |
| Indiana management makes ML Carr look like a genius. Talk about inept!
Eight months ago they say "We can never win with Mark Jackson running
our team - we gotta dump him, because we'll never be a contender with
him at the point." So now they bring him back!!! I doubt ol' Mark
has changed much in eight months!
NAZZ
|
| 10.4654 | how 'bout nexted year? | HBAHBA::HAAS | still not dead yet | Fri Feb 21 1997 16:34 | 10 |
| Nazz,
Do you think teams are already starting to jockey for nexted year when
they'll be able to bid for the services of Stackhouse, Stoudamire, Joe
Smith and those in the firsted class to sign the mandatory 3 year
contracts?
That seems to be what some are going for.
TTom
|
| 10.4655 | Can you sign your own stars from that 1st rookie class? | TNPUBS::NAZZARO | UMass is back - watch out NCAA! | Fri Feb 21 1997 17:14 | 15 |
| It's amazing to me how some teams seem to have no plan at all (Hello,
Indiana!), while others are jockeying with contracts and free agency.
I am pleasantly surprised how quickly Calipari seems to have grasped
the importance of playing the salary cap game. Coach Cal knows what
he's doing, and it seems to me that the Nets will be better than their
cross-river rivals the Knicks within two years, especially if New York
forks over the HUGE bucks needed to re-sign free agent Patrick Ewing.
What I don't get (maybe oyu can help me here) is why teams don't offer
their 2nd year players long-term contract extensions if they want to
keep them. Guys like Smith and Stoudamire are very important to their
respective teams. Are they prohibited from giving them long term
deals?
NAZZ
|
| 10.4656 | don't see why not | HBAHBA::HAAS | still not dead yet | Fri Feb 21 1997 17:21 | 10 |
| >contract extensions
Unless there's some double secret clause in these rookie contracts, the
basic rules of the NBA not only allow for contract extensions but it's
one of the main ways to handle the cap.
All ya gotta do is sign 'em up afore the old one expires cause there's
rules on that,too.
TTom
|
| 10.4657 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Fri Feb 21 1997 17:38 | 8 |
|
Nazz,
Gotta agree with you on the Nets and Calipari. With his
recent trades he has freed up ~14 million over the next 2 seasons.
With him being a young coach, recent from the college ranks/recruiting.
A Joe Smith/Jerry Stackhouse might want to play for him.
Ron
|
| 10.4658 | Other Way Around? | YIELD::BARBIERI | | Sun Feb 23 1997 13:52 | 4 |
| Small nit, but the Bucks were the team that had Respert. Did
the Bucks trade him to Toronto for Acie Earl?
Tony
|
| 10.4659 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | SI Swimsuit Issue Contest Winner!! | Mon Feb 24 1997 12:24 | 3 |
|
why didn't Nellie make us an offer for Dee Brown...
|
| 10.4660 | ooops | HBAHBA::HAAS | still not dead yet | Mon Feb 24 1997 13:15 | 5 |
| Yeah, I think I screwed that one up.
nothing new here...
TTom
|
| 10.4661 | Small time to extend | IMINMK::SILVESTRI | Penuts Gang turns 10 in 1997! | Mon Feb 24 1997 15:21 | 29 |
| >> I am pleasantly surprised how quickly Calipari seems to have grasped
>> the importance of playing the salary cap game. Coach Cal knows what
>> he's doing
Agree with you on this one ... I was in New Jersey when Calipari
was named coach, and the newspapers pointed out that Coach Cal
would have a hrad time turning the team around quickly because
of it very poor salary cap situation ... but, thanks to Don Nelson,
Calipari turned the situation around VERY quickly by unloading
salary-cap-hogs Bradley and Pack ...
>> What I don't get (maybe oyu can help me here) is why teams don't offer
>> their 2nd year players long-term contract extensions if they want to
>> keep them. Guys like Smith and Stoudamire are very important to their
>> respective teams. Are they prohibited from giving them long term
>> deals?
According to some articles I read in the basketball newsgroup,
NBA teams are given a short window (something like 30 days) at
the end of the second year of a rookies contract to extend the
deal ... otherwise, they become free agents at the end of the
third year ... so, yes, Philly can prevent Stackhouse from becoming
a free agent IF he agrees to a contract extension this summer ...
This directly effects the Celtics, do they try to lock up Eric
Williams long term? Or let him become a free agent after next year?
Vinny
|
| 10.4662 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | SI Swimsuit Issue Contest Winner!! | Mon Feb 24 1997 15:40 | 12 |
|
If I'm the C's I gamble that they can resign him after the 3rd year. I like
Williams alot and would hate to loose him but if they wait, I think it gives
them more salary cap room to sign somebody else, and then sign Williams after
the fact. The only thing they must do is keep their mouths shut unlike Miami
who lost Howard when they made the deal with Zo on the side.
A lot of empty seats at the Forum yesterday. Definately the worst frontrunner
fans out there. Funny how that wuss Ewing had a biggame yesterday without
Superboy there.........
mc
|
| 10.4663 | Campbell, is that the name | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Mon Feb 24 1997 18:29 | 9 |
| Mikey you never cease to amaze. I'm watching the end of the game and
saying "Who's the wise guy who says Ewing can't do it in the clutch?"
And then this. I figured the rebuttal would've have been "Yeh, but he
let ?(Former Clemson) waltz in for the game winning layup and if he'd
hit it he wouldn't have been the hero!".
But the layin was missed and Ewing came up superbig in the ot to
salvage a game. As he always seems to do when I watch him. After
Jordan he's about the top clutch player in that league.
|
| 10.4664 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | SI Swimsuit Issue Contest Winner!! | Mon Feb 24 1997 19:54 | 7 |
| and you never cease to amaze me Billte. You want to talk clutch players try
throwing out names like Grant Hill or Hakeem or the Mailman or Barkley etc.
before his Wussiness. Heck Rodman is more of clutch player than Patrica. He
may not be a scored but need a rebound or a defensive stop and he'll deliever
at a better rate than Patty..........
mc
|
| 10.4665 | | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Mon Feb 24 1997 20:22 | 9 |
| > names like Grant Hill or Hakeem or the Mailman or Barkley
Hill is just getting started
Hakeem and Barkley okay except you can't rely on Barkley.
Mail-it-in. What a joke. And you get on me for Grogan. That bum has
never got it done in the clutch and he's the nba's baby.
|
| 10.4666 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Mon Feb 24 1997 20:23 | 1 |
| first Grogan and now Ewing. Bill, you need some serious counseling!
|
| 10.4667 | Gotta go with what I see | MKOTS3::BREEN | Sans Doute | Mon Feb 24 1997 20:28 | 7 |
| Well I understand that few know the greatness of Grogan and my mistake
was seemingly belittling Bradshaw.
But Ewing has been great all his career: high school, college and pro.
He's had very little to support him with the Knicks and he's had to get
past Jordan and the Bulls and failed. Hakeem is better, no problem.
But Ewing doesn't ever let me down in games I watch him play.
|
| 10.4668 | | SNAX::ERICKSON | | Mon Feb 24 1997 20:43 | 4 |
|
Who was guarding Elden "Stiff" Cambell and his 40 pts? :^)
Ron
|
| 10.4669 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | SI Swimsuit Issue Contest Winner!! | Tue Feb 25 1997 12:27 | 18 |
|
Bill face the fact Ewing is a wuss. He can dominate guys smaller than himself
like he did in High School. In college Thompson brought in a thug - Michael
Graham to put the fear of life in folks cause Ewing couldn't. In the pros
they went out and got Oakley to police the middle. They have done nothing
but get more players every year for a supporting cast to try and win it
without realizing the wussy in the middle is the problem.
While the Mailman has never delievered in the playoffs during the season
in games that I've seen him he's taken over the 4 th quarter more than
once to win it for Utah. Sure Ewing's done the same but he also blown as
many as he's pulled out. When faced with a center of comparable skills
he's failed more often than not.
he certainly didn't belong on the alltime 50 but then again he certainly
wasn't the worst offender to make that team........
mc
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| 10.4670 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | SI Swimsuit Issue Contest Winner!! | Tue Feb 25 1997 17:28 | 3 |
|
Does Antione Walker have a shoe deal? If so he should be a lock for ROY....
Grant Hill should be MVP as detroit a lottery team without him....
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| 10.4671 | | PHXSS1::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Feb 25 1997 18:21 | 1 |
| Walker's deal is with Adidas.
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| 10.4672 | | PECAD8::CHILDS | SI Swimsuit Issue Contest Winner!! | Wed Feb 26 1997 11:06 | 5 |
| >> Walker's deal is with Adidas.
they're small potatoes. I guess ROY will go to Iverson then. Toss in all this
disrepsect talk from the elders, his shoe should become the hottest thing on
the planet with revolting teenie boppers............
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| 10.4673 | pitiful | HBAHBA::HAAS | angel trumpets and devil trombones | Fri Mar 21 1997 14:06 | 33 |
|
N.J. Nets reportedly use phony cheers
NEW YORK (Mar 21, 1997 09:31 a.m. EST) -- If it sometimes seems as
though there are more people cheering at New Jersey Nets games than
there are fans in the stands, there's a simple explanation. The NBA
team uses artifical crowd noise.
The New York Daily News reported Friday that the Nets pipe in phony
cheering through the loudspeakers at the Continental Airlines Arena.
John Calipari, the team's coach and executive vice president of
basketball operations, admitted the practice.
"Some of this stuff is embarrassing," Calipari told the News. The
coach said he noticed the inflated noise early in the season during
games which were clearly not sold out. "I just shook my head. I said,
'Do we need to do that?' "
Apparently, the Nets feel they do.
The artificial noise was particularly noticible during the Nets' upset
over the Chicago Bulls last week. It drowned out booing by Chicago
seeking to distract New Jersey's Xavier McDaniel, who made four foul
shots in the final minute to clinch the victory.
McDaniel was surprised to hear about the fake cheers.
"I didn't notice that," he said. "Is that true?"
A Nets employee said the team has been doing it for some time and that
a number of other NBA teams follow the practice. Spokespersons for the
New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Indiana Pacers and Orlando Magic all
denied using the ploy.
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| 10.4674 | some bad math | HBAHBA::HAAS | angel trumpets and devil trombones | Fri Mar 21 1997 15:35 | 13 |
| Put this in th category of "Better check them stats"...
USA Today, in a_article about how the Kings sacked their head coach Garry
St. Jean, listed his record as, "160-239 in his four seasons coaching the
Kings."
Let's see. At about a hundred games a year, that would put the Kings
about 20 games into the playoffs, on average, each year, which would
be at or near the league finals.
Then, why'd they fire the guy?
TTom
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