Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Is it true that breaking balls don't break as much, if at all, at
    altitude?  A number of NL pitchers, including some who played in 
    Mile High Stadium during their minor league careers, warned that the
    problem with Denver wouldn't be long balls (you cain move the fences
    back, after all) but groove pitches.
    
    MrT

    
    	I agree with that.  I pitched here in high school and also
    	had the opportunity to pitch at lower elevations on some
    	baseball trips to Nebraska, etc...  The ball did seem to
    	break more at the lower elevations.  However, I think the
    	biggest factor concerning the amount of break a ball has
    	is the wind.  If you're pitching into it, it'll break so
    	much you'd think you're ready for the show.  If it's
    	behind you, you'll get a sore neck watching those shots
    	zip past your haid.
    
    	Now we just need to see if they set the stadium up where
    	the usually westerly winds help or hinder the pitchers
    	breaking ball.  
    
    	Claybone

    Based on the physics of the breaking ball, it must be true.  But I
    don't know if the altitude difference represents a significant change
    or not.
    
    Either way, you'll know you'll hear it as an excuse.
    
    Dan

      I'm not much of a baseball fan,  but I think the Rockies will take it
    all in 93;^^
    
    		Tim

    
    Wonder what the Vegas odds will be on their taking it all in their
    first year?  Hell, I'll bet $1.
    
    I'd even bet $10 that they win their first world series before the Red
    Sox win their next one, but who's gonna be around that long to collect?
    
    Dickstah
    

    A ball curves due to Bernoulli's (sp ?) Principle, which in a nutshell
    says that the difference in air pressure causes a spinning baseball to
    curve. Since the BP is lower at high altitudes, a breaking ball will
    have less bite. Especially on a cool crisp day, when the air is light,
    and hence a baseball (or rather the seams to be accurate) can not
    'grip' the air and break as dramatically. 
    
    Yes, Dan the difference will be significant. On the other hand, a
    fastball will have a little more oompf, since there is less air
    resistance ...
    
    As an aside, I remember how Phil Niekro seemed to get of to 1-6 starts
    in April. Then it started getting hot and sticky in Atlanta, and that
    knuckleball got *wicked* in the summer months ....
    
    Doc

    re .5 
    
    
        FUNNY!!!!!

    I saw in the RMN that the new stadium will be ready for the 94 season
    and that the Rockies are trying to get the 96 All Star game in Denver.
    YYYIIIPPPPEEE!!!!
    
    Randy

    
    I think the logo for the Rockies .......
    
    
    S U C K S    !!!
    
    Was this drawn in LOGO 101 by some dweeb enrolled at Alamosa JUCO ?
    
    I'm embarrassed to be a human ......
    
    - acp

    The Rockies announced they will join the Cactus League next year.
    
    Mike

>                     -< another team to train in Phoenix >-
>    The Rockies announced they will join the Cactus League next year.
    
    Mike, I heard they are on the verge of choosing Tucson.
    
    Joe
 

    Mike, I think he was questioning you're "another team in Phoenix"
    title to your reply.

    it's only a 2 hour drive ;-)  I hadn't heard what city they were
    playing in when the announcement was made.
    
    Mike

>    Mike, I think he was questioning you're "another team in Phoenix"
>    title to your reply.
    
    I was.
    
    Joe

There has to be an even number of teams in both Florida and Arizona, so that 
everyone can play every day. It makes sense for the Rockies to train in the 
same time zone, but some other team will have to move. (This is assuming the 
Marlins will train in Florida). As it is now we have the following arraingement:

ARIZONA:	FLORIDA:
Padres		Twins		Red Sox
Angels		Mets		Astros
Athletics	Tigers		Reds
Mainers		Dodgers		Yankees
Brewers		Cardinals	Expos
Cubs		Braves		Phillies
Indians		Blue Jays	Orioles
Giants		White Sox	Pirates
ROCKIES		Rangers		Royals
		MARLINS

With an odd number of teams, someone has to move in either direction

Tom

    The Indians are supposed to move out of Tuscon and over to Florida
    nexted year with the Rockies replacing them in Tuscon's Hi Corbett
    Field.
    
    John

    Re: odd number of teams,
    
    There is not necessarily a need for even numbers of teams in a
    geographical area......that's why God created 'A' and 'B' squads!!
    
    
    
    Hal Tried Hurling,
    
    Nelly

Yeah, that's fine for the early part of spring training, but towards the end 
teams have pared down the roster and several regulars are playing full games. 
A week before they go north there might be a couple of spots up for grabs, but
generally most of the B players are relaesed or working out with the AAA unit.

Tom

    This is Clevescums last year in the desert.

       Does anyone know who will be the farm team for the Rockies?  There
    was a "debate" at Sky Sox stadium last night about this.  Some say the
    Sky sox will be and some said the Sky sox will still be farming for the
    Indians.
    
      Tanks,
    
    	Tim

    Nothing's official yet, but everything points to the Calhan Sky Sox
    being the Rockies' farm team next year.  This is the last year of the
    Sky Sox's current contract with Cleveland anyway.
    
    Joe

    
    	Rumor out here in Colorado Springs is that since the current
    contract is up.   The Sky Sox will petition to be the farm team for
    the Rockies.  Doesn't appear to be any problems, just forms to fill
    out and dates to wait for...looks like it will be official soon.
    
    Marc

    
    Any word where Cleveland will go?  They were crazy to move from Toledo
    and some of the other places closer to Cleveland.  Columbus would be
    ideal, but the Yankees probably don't want to move.
    
    The TRIBE needs to move their AAA club closer to home and out of the
    clouds... 

    The Indians are looking at Charlotte but so are the Marlins.  The
    Indians also might go to Indianapolis if the Expos leave there for
    Ottawa.
    
    As for the Calhan Sky Sox, they might move to the American Association
    if the Denver Zephyrs move to a western city (Salt Lake has been
    mentioned) and the Zephyrs would go to the PCL.
    
    Joe

    
    Phoenix could open up if the Giants move east and decide to bring their
    AAA club with them.
    
    Brews

    Ginats are bound to Phoenix via contract thru 1994.

    
    	Don Baylor has been named manager of the Rockies.  He
    	deserved the chance IMO.
    
    Claybroon

    
     Good choice IMO...  Baylor is new to the managers ranks... This 
    is a fresh start for the Rockies, a fresh manager is good too.
    Besides,  it'll be alot easier to fire him if he screws up because
    he has no experience.
    
    BG

    re .28, .29:
    
    With Baylor at the helm, it wouldn't surprise me if Colorado hitters led
    the NL next year in number of times hit by a pitch.  :-O
    
    
    py

    Why did the Cardinals lead in HBP this year?

    >> Why did the Cardinals lead in HBP this year?
    
       No. Baylor was amongst the career leaders (if he wasn't THE career
       leaders) in HBP. Best part was I never saw him act like it hurt.
    
    

    Yeah I knew that, but figured if he's teaching players his "art" it
    would've been obvious already.

    	No way Paul, today's players aren't as mainly as Baylor was.
    Today's players are soccer players with bats in their hands.  8^(
    
    				/Don

You'll never see a group of profesional athletes as far out of shape as
baseball players are...What other sport could guy like charlie hough or
Kent Hrbek continue to play?

Metz

    
> You'll never see a group of profesional athletes as far out of shape as
> baseball players are...What other sport could guy like charlie hough or
> Kent Hrbek continue to play?
    
    Only more evidence that the game demands more smarts and skill. 
    Otherwise, natural selection would have extincted these guys.
    
    glenn
    

    	Hey Metz, Hrbek's a 'rassler in the offseason!  And I would
    love to see some of these JennyCraigBodiesInMotion types swinging
    wildly at the Houghers knuckleball.
    
    				/Don

    
  >> Only more evidence that the game demands more smarts and skill. 
  >> Otherwise, natural selection would have extincted these guys.
    
     The lengths you'll go to to defend baseball...    
    

                              
  >> Only more evidence that the game demands more smarts and skill. 
  >> Otherwise, natural selection would have extincted these guys.
    
   >  The lengths you'll go to to defend baseball...    
    
    Now, now, Tommy.  You're supposed to congratulate me for restraining
    myself in not bringing up how exciting the World Series was again after
    my comments on the NLCS...
    
    glenn
     

    
    No Glenn, actually I find your defense of your favorite sport
    admirable and if baseball had to have a defender here in SPORTS
    I can't think of a better person for the job. BUT I think the game
    has some HUGE problems that it had damn well better solve and quick.

    This year's WS paled in comparison to last years.

    
    > BUT I think the game
    > has some HUGE problems that it had damn well better solve and quick.
      
    Yes, baseball does have some huge problems but like with anything else
    once big money and egos become involved, most of them have nothing to 
    do with the game itself.  Like TV ratings.  Nothing would make me
    happier than to see TV ratings and rights fees continue to fall through 
    the floor, so that once again the game's emphasis could return to the 
    fan in attendance at the ballpark, and by corollary, to the kids (this
    isn't just baseball's problem, either-- the notion of being required to
    schedule a football game in Foxborough at 4 PM for TV purposes *when
    the game is blacked out in the local area anyway* is absolutely 
    ridiculous).  If television ratings are to be the accepted measure of
    popularity, then so be it; in more ways than I can mention here, 
    baseball can stand to be less popular.
    
    I categorically reject any of these "solutions" to make MLB more 
    "exciting" (read: generate more TV revenues), like expanding the 
    playoffs so than demonstrably inferior teams can take a crack at the
    ones who worked hard to get there.  But that's where I'm hearing that 
    the jeeyuses in charge of the sport are headed...
    
    glenn
    

    
     HEY HEY !!!
    
     this is the Rockies conference 
    
    BG

	Why do they pick a guy with no experience. My choice would have
been Bill Virdon. At least he's had some experience at winning!!. The
first few years will be miserable, and the team needs someone that knows
strategy and not how to get hit by pitches.

	Then to top it off Baylor picks Zimmer for a bench coach, give me
a break. 


  Cadzilla

       Zimmer? I thought he was retiring. Do they have dog tracks in
    Denver? If not, he won't be there long!
                                    Denny

	Mickey Monus (former partner of Rockies) has filed suit in Ohio to
	stop the Rockies from participating in the expansion draft.  Says
	he was forced to sell his interest for too low a price.  He was forced
	to sell when Phar-Mor filed for bankruptcy and it was suspected that 
	there was some shady dealings involving him and others.


	Kevin

    Other Rocky news;
    
     The exact center of home plate for Coors Field will be located 
    using government global positioning satellites.  All other dimensions
    for the field will be calculated form this point.  This is the first
    time this technology has been used for this type of construction.
    
    BG

    re: .47 BFD
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Re: BFD...
    
     It was just a tid bit I read in the paper boys...
    
    JAM IT !!
    
    

    Face it Big'n'Lame, don't we have better thangs to do with the
    multi-billion dollar satelites than positioning home plate?????
    
    Just give a 12 year old kid a tape measure, it'll be just as good, and
    a lot cheaper.
    
    JaKe
    

    Pray tell us BG,
    What the actual benefits this here satellite's gonna do fer the sport
    according to the rag besides waste taxpayer's moolah.
    
    MikeL
    

    BG, I thought you said you don't take folks seriously in here.

Who's the man that stealin' time from the Rockies new draft ?
M I C K E Y M O N U S

M I C K E Y M O N U S

    
    	I read the article.  One benefit is that it cuts down on the
    	amount of time required to survey (can't think of the right
    	word) the ballpark.  If I remember correctly, it cuts that
    	time (app. 2 weeks) down to like 3 days.  
    
    Claybroon

    
     Mac...  I don't take whats said in hear seriously.  I do however
    take exception to someone attacking my intelligence, Nuff said.
    
     Let me make something clear to boys...  I wasn't trying to say that
    because Coors field was being surveyed from space that it might be 
    better than others stadiums...  I was trying to point out to the 
    people that might be interested that a new technology was being used
    to lay out the park, nothing more, nothing less.  The uninformed
    statement made about the government wasting money to do this is just
    that, uninformed.  The satellites are there all the time, they are
    used by such things as auto navigation equipment now available on
    some cars and used by trucking companies for year to track their trucks
    and drivers.  it will however (as Claybroon pointed out) save on
    construction costs.  what used to take weeks now takes little more 
    than a day.  So, in closing, I'd like to thank you all...  Have a nice
    day 
    
    

    
    Thank you for that enlightening explanation.
    
    btw I didn't think anyone was attacking your intelligence.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    BG,
    I want to thank you also. That was enlightening and it was 'xactly
    what I asked you to provide. I wasn't attacking your intelligence
    ( ya gotta admit all y'all rooting fer the Donks have gots to have
    yo' intell;igence questioned! 8^)  ) and you did inform me and now
    I retract my uninformed statement about "wasting taxpayers' money".
    Danke.
    
    And ya even did it nicely, which was a HUGE surprise!!
    Mucho 8^)'s on dat one.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    BG, MY statement was made to attack your intelligence.  HTH  8^)
    
    Brews

    But Brews...  I knew that...  ;^)
    
    BG (who just might need to learn to take it as well as he dishes it out)

    A friend of mine was listening to late night KOA radio.
    Rick Barber who hosts the show posed this question.
    
    What important sporting event did Diane Crump participate in? 
    
    No one could guess but my firend knew and called in.
    He told him "She's a jockey." 
    Rick said "be more specific."
    He said "first female to run the Kentucy Derby"
    Rick said "YOU WIN!"
    
    He won a round trip ticket for two to NY, NY and 2 nights
    at the Grand Hyatt in Manhattan and tickets to attend the
    Rockies and Marlins expansion draft.  Wow!
    
    BoB  

Anyone interested in the draft - the Chicago Trib just published what they
claim to be the protected lists.  I posted the Red Sox list in vaxwrk::red_sox,
don't feel like digging it back up.  Notables open are George Bell, Danny 
Tartabull, Bobby Thigpen, Steve Sax, and Jack Morris.

Murph

    From what I understand, those with access to the protected list had to
    enter a double secret cross my heart, hope to die oath before they had
    access to it 'cause the owners were afraid that players on it would
    negotiate tougher deals 'cause they'd know how much the team valued
    them.
    
    If the list turns out to be accurate, anybody wanna venture a guess how
    intense and long the witch hunt will last?
    
    I remain,
    loving a good "burn'em at the stake"!
    Kev
    

    
    I would guess that for each team about 10-11 spots wer obvious to
    everyone.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	I thought that list was supposed to be hermetically sealed in
    a mayonaisse jar?
    
    				/Don

       Did the Socks protect Matt & Jack?
                                    Denny

Nope but they protected Greenteeth instead of Burks. A color blind move if
ever there was one.....

Mr. Hunter, and others.  Keep up the great job of reporting about this new and
exciting team, which will bring baseball to new heights.   I appreciate it, as
I'm sure others do.

JD

    
    JD,
    
     You're gone man...  You need to get to the shrink !!!  
    What happened ???  Did the Facist Mods have you beaten
    into submission ??
    
    Inquiring Minds...
    
    BG
    
    P.s.  Baylor will be the #2 man in decision making come the expansion
          draft...  Right behind the GM,  Gerhard I believe it is... Glad
    	  to see he aint gonna be just a figure head...
    

    
    re: .70
    
    Yo' there 'ya got to get your names right before asking such explosive
    questions. Your question should have been addressed to:
    
    JD, TCM(or CzMet or Crazy Met), Mr. Doda :-) and JaKe.
    
    Once you get that right we may consider responding to questions.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    So how bout those Rockies?
    

       BFD = Big f'in deal
    
      HTH
    
    	Tim

    
    >>Where would you rather play ? Shea, Three Rivers, or Coors Field ?
    
    Well, if Coors field is anything like Coors beer, it'll be VERY watery,
    lifeless, AND overpriced.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    re: recent thread of notes.
    
    Forget all the kidding and joshing I do about the way Mac and 'Saw, and
    of course Brews, moderate the notesfile. They do a good job, sometimes
    quite remarkable, in light of the leeway that this notesfile provides.
    Yes, sometimes they do err on the side of caution, but a reasoned appeal
    on particular notes can work.  If you want to see true hardnosed
    moderation you can go check out ::DIGITAL, for example, where P&P are
    followed to the letter; proably followed more stringently than the
    authors of P&P ever intended. 
    
    To acp:
    re: note .70 and .71
    
    My intention was not to get .70 hidden. Notice the smiley at the top of
    .71.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

The Rockies signed free agent Andres Gallaraga yesterday, he hit .243 wiht
10 homers for the Cardinals this season.  Don Baylor predicts he'll hit
at least 20 homers.

IMO, Baylor may be just what the "Big Cat" needs.   He's been ina decline
the last few years, after a few fine seasons with the Expos.

JD

    re: Doda...  I weren't me getting set hidden...
    
    Rockies survived a try to halt the expansion draft...  Should be some
    interesting picks today !!
    
    BG

    Who tried to halt the expansion draft and why?

    Expansion draft picks are being posted in note 332 in SHARPO::BASEBALL
    
    
    py

    a former partner in the Denver organization (Mousy or something like
    that) file suit in federal court trying to get an injuction against 
    the draft.  He was ousted from the partnership over some underhanded
    dealing involving the Phar-Mor stores.  He is suing because he feels
    he was wrongly ousted and should be part of the draft once he proves
    he was wrongly ousted.  Bottom line,  the guy is a bum and got what he
    deserves.
    
    BG

Round 1
=======

Colorado Rockies			Florida Marlins
----------------			---------------
David Nied	RHP/ATL			Nigel Wilson	 LF/TOR
Charlie Hayes	 3B/NYY			Jose Martinez	RHP/NYM
Darren Holmes	RHP/MIL			Bret Barberie	 2B/MTL
Jerald Clark	 OF/SDP			Trevor Hoffman	RHP/CIN
Kevin Reimer	 OF/TEX			Patrick Rapp	RHP/SFG
Eric Young	 2B/LAD			Greg Hibbard	LHP/CHW
Jody Reed	 2B/BOS			Chuck Carr	 CF/STL

    
    Have the Rockies ever won and MLB championship?
    

    
    Groaner,
    
     Has Cleveland been declared a Hazardous wastes safe zone yet.
    What pissant city that place.  Wouldn't live there ifn ya paid
    me a million a year.  And the Indians...  now thers a major League
    tea, that has put fear into MLB elite teams for years,  They SUCK.
    I bet the Rockies win an MLB championship before Clevescum ever get
    close to another.
    
    BG

    
    You're on...  the traditional BUCK bet?
    

    I would say yes but we will bring out the Mods (and rightfully so I
    might add)  Send me mail and we'll talk.  I got to believe that it's
    pretty unlikely that we'll be here by the time either makes it there
    to collect though.
    
    BG

>    I would say yes but we will bring out the Mods (and rightfully so I
>    might add)  Send me mail and we'll talk.  I got to believe that it's
>    pretty unlikely that we'll be here by the time either makes it there
>    to collect though.
    
Good idea.

I'm sure that your discussion of wagering was for amusement purposes only...


8^)

Geez, I can't believe you guys wager deer.  

JD

    
    
               And if ya do wager one Grown Male Deer it better be alive
    cuz if'n ya kill it and it's not hunting season I'm gonna report ya
    both. 8*)
    
    Chappy...