Conference vmszoo::rc

    Also, over the weekend, watched the 1938 classic, "Wings," starring
    Errol Flynn, David Niven, Donald Crisp and Rasil Bathbone (sic).
    I still enjoy watching this flick and I noticed something cogent
    to the RCnotes_file as well; there in all their glory were a flock
    of Travelair 2000's, the ol' Witchita Fokkers, masquerading as,
    what else, the Fokker D-VII's of the ficticious Baron Von Richter.
    
    They appeared to be using mock-ups of Nieuport-28's for the ground
    shots but another biplane (which I couldn't identify) stood in 
    during the in-flight shots.  Anyone happen to know what these were?
    
    Great classic movie if, perhaps, a little melodramatic in places. 
    But I always was a big fan of Flynn's and Niven's OK too so I'd
    have to rate this pearl *** and 1/2.
    
    Also getting a lot of play currently on Cinemax (cable) is Gregory
    Peck's classic, "Twelve O'Clock High."  Made in 1949, there were
    still [obviously] lotsa' B-17's around and it's really great to
    see them in the movie, especially realizing that a mere 40-years,
    only a handful are left.  (One of the purest, most prefectly restored
    B-17's presently flying, the "Sentimental Journey," is based at
    nearby Falcon Field in Mesa, Arizona.)  
    
    I love the way this movie portrays the pressures of commanding a
    bomb group ant the way Peck interprets the role of General Savage,
    who eventually succombs to the pressures of command.  **** anyday!
    
    Another classic, "The War Lover," with Steve McQueen also played
    this past weekend on WGN, Chicago (cable again).  While I was never
    a rabid McQueen fan, I did love all the great flying scenes in this
    movie, especially the one where, disgusted at having had to "waste"
    a mission to drop propaganda leaflets, McQueen's character proceeds
    to "beat-up-the-field" with a series of buzzing low-passes.  *** 

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    
      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Yer' right, John,
    
    It was, indeed, "Wings" that was released in silent form.  I screwed
    up!  The movie I watched this weekend with Errol Flynn, David Niven,
    et al was 1938's "The Dawn Patrol," _not_ Wings.  I knew 1938 was
    more than a little late to be remaking a silent...heck, The Wizard
    of Oz was out in glorious technicolor in 1936.
    
    Now let me tax this weary memory again and make a statement I _think_
    is correct:  The Dawn Patrol was the first movie Howard Hughes made.
    (Or at least _one_ of the first.)  Can anyone verify or deny???

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

I haven't seen it lately, but "The Flight of the Phoenix" was a good film. I
don't remember the aircraft details but a WWII plane went down in the desert of
North Africa and the crew and passengers had to "rebuild" her to fly out of the
desert to safety. It involved removing a wing and part of the fuselage (I don't
know why, but a P-38 keeps coming to mind) and putting it back together without 
a cabin. It turned out that the only experience the guy who directed the effort
had had was in designing model airplanes. He was a german and he showed the
others the catalog of planes he'd worked on (I think I saw the name Graupner).
The film was dedicated to one of the daredevil cameramen who was killed during
the making of the movie. BTW, the survivors flew out by strapping themselves on
and hanging onto the wings. 

Dave

    DAVE,
    
    The reason the P-38 keeps coming to yer' mind is that the plane
    that crashed was a C-119 Flying Boxcar which is similar in planform
    to the Lightning, having a central fuselage/cargo pod with two booms
    running aft to hold the horizontal stab assembly.  The survivors
    removed the left boom and outboard wing-panel, then removed the
    right outboard wing-panel and grafted it onto the  already removed
    boom, creating a single-engined, mid-winged monoplane.  The composite
    airplane was fitted with a ski-like undercarriage to take off from
    the soft desert sand.  I'm told this movie was based on an actual 
    incident.  
    
    The flight sequences for Flight of the Phoenix were filmed in the
    dunes area of the Arizona desert near Yuma.  Pioneer Hollywood aviator,
    Paul Mantz, whose company, Tallmantz Aviation, built the flying
    version of the "Phoenix," was killed during filming of the landing
    sequence in a minor landing mishap which was survived by a passenger on
    the airplane.  As memory serves, one of the skis dug into the sand
    anf the plane flipped on its back breaking Mantz, neck.  In Mantz'
    biography, "Hollywood Pilot," he tells of flying over this desolate
    area in a B-25 during WW-II and having the eerie feeling that, if
    he ever died in an aircraft, it'd be in an area like this.  Seems
    almost spooky that his own portent of doom associated with this
    area actually was fulfilled.  This, incidentally, is why there is
    no scene of the "Phoenix" landing; the plane merely disappears over
    a dune then, moments later, ther survivors scramble over the dune
    and down into the pond at the oasis oil rig site.
    
    This, too, is one of my favorite aviation movies.  I particularly like
    the scene where, after Jimmy Stewart (the pilot) blows his top at
    the revelation that the German aircraft designer (played by Hardy
    Kruger) only designs models, the co-pilot (Richard Attenborough
    sp?), trying to cool him off, quotes the designers statement that,
    "In 18??, Stringfellow and Hawke (or something like that) successfully
    flew a model aeroplane a distance of 1000 meters before it was
    destroyed after colliding with a rigid object!"  You can just see the
    "That's supposed to encourage me?" look on Stewart's face.  :B^)  ***

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Re: .-1,
    
    Don Huff (WINERY::HUFF), who rarely makes an appearance in the
    notes-file anymore but still reads it occasionally, sent me an off-
    line correction to reply 680.8.  It seems the aircraft that was
    crashed in the sandstorm, then cannibalized to build the single-engine
    hybrid which flew the survivors out to safety was not a C-119 Flying
    Boxcar as I had thought and so stated.  According to Don, the airplane
    in question was the 'Boxcar's' immediated ancestor, the Fairchild C-82 
    Packet.  According to Don, the aircraft were quite similar in
    appearance with the C-119 being somewhat larger than the Packet.  I'll
    accept Don's word as gospel since, before he corrected me, I'd never
    heard of the C-82, or it'd been so long ago that I dumped the
    recollection.
    
    Did you ever hear the story about this guy who goes into a movie
    theater to watch a western and winds up betting with the guy next
    to him that one of the characters will not survive some terrible 
    mishap in the film.  The character, indeed, doesn't survive and
    the guy collects his bet only to discover this other guy had already
    seen the movie earlier in the day.  Incredulous, he asks this fellow,
    "If you'd already seen the movie, you _knew_ the guy got killed!
    Why the Hell did you bet me he'd survive??"  To this, the loser
    of the bet replied, "I thought he'd make it _this_ time."  B^(
    
    What's this got to do with anything?  Well, I saw "The Bridges at
    Toko-Ri" starring William Holden, Grace Kelly, Mickey Rooney and
    Earl Holliman recently and I guess I'm a lot like the guy who lost
    the bet in the story above; every time I see this flick, I just
    _know_ that Holden, Rooney and Holliman's characters (Brubaker, 
    Forney and Nestor) are gonna' make it for sure, _this_ time!
    
    What an excellent flick!!  I particularly enjoy seeing what was, in
    my humble opinion, the prettiest of all the early generation jets,
    the Grumman F-9-F-5 Panther in action, what a really pretty bird
    that was.  I like everything about this movie except, perhaps for
    the ending...like I said, "They shoulda' made it!"  ****
    
    In a similar vein, "Men of the Fighting Lady" was shown recently
    also.  This one stars Van Johnson and deals with the same period,
    the Korean war.  The premise is that author, James Michener, boards
    a carrier looking for material for patriotic articles he's doing
    for LIFE magazine.  Eventually he gets his story when Johnson's
    character talks a blinded pilot (Dewey Martin) back to the carrier
    and actually gets him down to a carrier landing.  Sounds pretty
    far-fetched but, according to the credits, this was based on a true
    incident which actually was written about in LIFE by Michener.
    There're more action scenes of the F-9-F-5 Panthers in action than
    in 'Bridges' but, perhaps because I'm not real crazy about Van Johnson,
    I can't rate this one as highly though it's certainly worth watching.
    Should you catch this one, watch for Keenan Wynn _with_ hair.  ***
    
    I rented "Empire of the Sun" last weekend and wasn't too impressed,
    unfortunately.  Being a Spielberg film, I expected more and I'm
    really glad I didn't waste the price of admission to see it at the
    theater.  Not exactly an aviation movie, what attracted me to this
    film was the knowledge that a team of English modelers built and
    flew 1/3 scale Mustangs, AT-6/Zeros and a 19' B-29 for the few flying
    scenes.  The model work was done with such a high degree of excellence
    that I defy anyone to pick out the models from the one-or-two full
    scales used. The short, 2-or-3 minute scene of P-51's beating up
    a Japanese airfield is worth catching (for the model work) but that's
    all that recommends this movie, IMHO.  *1/2

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Being bored with the usual TV fare last night (so what's new?), 
    I put on my videotape of "Fighter Squadron," starring Edmond O'Brien
    and Robert Stack.  Pretty smaltzy stuff in places but I love the
    flag-waving, go-get-'em-you-all-American-boys theme.  I'm not sure
    of the vintage of this flick but it must've been shortly after the
    war (WW-II) as there were still plenty of P-47D's around to use
    in the movie.  P-47's _did_ survive for a time after the war in
    Air National Guard units but they were phased out fairly soon, the
    majority of these units converting to (or retaining) P-51D's.
    
    The story is about a group of Devil-may-care, Hell-bent-for-leather
    fighter jocks flying Jugs in the Eighth Air Force in England during
    WW-II and _this_ is where the picture's main strength lies.  (Are
    you listening, Kevin Ladd?)  The movie is jam-packed with P-47 footage
    and the old Jug steals the show, IMHO, from the human actors.  There're
    plenty of scenes filmed for the movie combined with actual combat
    footage which show you the Thunderbolt from every possible angle
    but still leave you wanting more.
    
    Interestingly enough, the Jugs' nemesis in the picture, the ME-109's,
    are "played" by, of all things, P-51D Mustangs!  A little hokey for
    us WW-II buffs, but an opportunity to see plenty of that classic
    fighter as well.  Hey!  To Hell with the plot, the flying scenes
    are great and, if for that reason alone, I recommend you try to
    catch this old gem next time you spot it in the listings.  **1/2  
    
    Not yet satiated after watching the above movie, I put on my copy
    of "The Hunters," starring Robert Mitchum, Richard Egan and Robert
    Wagner.  Another Korean war flick, this time from the Air Force's
    perspective, this one has Mitchum as a somewhat overage but still
    hot fighter-jock from WW-II reunited with his former pal from the
    _big_ war (Egan) and competing with the younger pilots (namely Wagner).
    Flying F-86's, Mitchum quickly proves his prowess and starts racking
    up the kills over the wily Chinese flying MiG-15's ("played" in
    the picture by Republic F-84F Thunderstreaks).  
    
    My only complaint about this flick is that the flying stops too
    soon.  The local Chinese hot-dog, nicknamed "Casey Jones" because
    of a locomotive painted on the nose of his MiG, shoots down one
    of Mitchum's squadron mates so big Bob does the right (heroic) thing
    and deliberately crash lands (destroying a perfectly good Sabrejet
    in the process) to rescue his comrade.  Being closed in on by Chinese
    ground forces, Mitchum and the wounded pilot are defended for a
    time by Wagner's straffing runs until, out of ammo and fuel, he
    _also_ trashes his perfectly good Sabre and crash lands to help
    Mitchum rescue their squadron mate (who's a real jerk, undeserving
    of rescue in the first place).
    
    The remainder of the flick deals with this trio skulking around
    behind enemy lines 'til, at last, they make it back to American
    lines...and they all live happily ever-after.  The first half of
    this film is great but the last half is a let-down.  For that reason,
    I can't give it any more than **.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Got out one of my most watched videotapes and watched "The Blue
    Max," this past weekend.  This has to be just about my all-time
    favorite WW-I movie and it was, I believe, a landmark in modern
    aviation flicks in that it was maybe the first to make an effort
    to use accurate aircraft instead of thinly disguising some other,
    much more common birds.
    
    Another thing I always kinda' liked about this film was that the
    story was told from the German Perspective which we seldom ge a
    look into.  George Peppard is convincing as the bitter commoner,
    driven by the other aristocratic members of the flying corps to
    be just that much better and more brutal in the air than are they.
    Bruno Stachel (Peppard) has but one aim; to win the coveted Pour
    Le Merite (the medal called The Blue Max after Max Immelman).
    
    James Mason is great as Gen. Von Klugerman and Ursula Andress
    (Undress?) is OK as his wife.  Perhaps my favorite character in
    the movie, however, is Willy Von Klugerman, played by Jeremy Kemp,
    a nephew of the General and lover to the permissive General's adultress
    wife, Willy's aunt by marriage (Andress).  Willy is cocky and self-
    assured with good reason; he is a verrry good pilot and Bruno
    immediately sets out to be his equal, both in the air and with the
    fickle Baroness Von Klugerman.                               
    
    But the star of this picture is the flying scenes..., simply
    magnificent!  Replica Fokker D-VII, Pfalz, Albatros' and SE-5 fighters
    are in the fore at all times (though deHavilland Tiger-Moths stand
    in as extras for both sides) and the action and photography are
    nothing short of excellent.  Don't miss this one.  ***1/2

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    In the current issue of Air Classics magazine, there is a lengthy
    article on the filming of the aerial scenes for the upcoming TV
    mini-series, "War and Remembrances," the sequel to "The Winds of
    War' of several seasons ago.
    
    T.W.O.W. ended shortly following Pearl Harbor with the series' hero,
    Pug Henry (Robert Mitchum) steaming out into harm's way a week or
    so following the attack.  W.A.R. picks up from there with Pug's
    son becoming a central character in the sequel, being a Dauntless
    pilot aboard the Enterprise.  The series is said to become involved
    with many of the major naval battles/campaigns of the early Pacific
    war, including Guadacanal and Midway.
    
    For filming, the production assembled 2 SBD Dauntlesses (one from
    the C.A.F. and the other from John Maloney's Planes of Fame flying
    museum in Chino, CA.), two 'Kate" makeovers from Tora, Tora, Tora
    which stand-in for TBD torpedo bombers, 2 FM-2 (F4F) Wildcats and 
    nearly 2-dozen AT-6's which are used as 'fill' Dauntlesses and also 
    as Zeros.  One Tora T-6/Zero makeover is also used.
    
    With full cooperation from the Navy, this compliment of aircraft
    was loaded aboard the carrier Lexington which made 4-cruises into
    the Gulf of Mexico for filming of shipboard sequences.  During this
    filming, both Dauntlesses and the "TBD's" made two takeoffs each
    from the Lexington's flight deck...the first Dauntlesses to do so
    in over 40-years.  However, the Navy would not permit carrier landings
    so, once launched and filming was complete, the planes had to fly
    back and land at Pensacola N.A.S. where the production company had
    near carte-blanche use of the Blue Angels' hangar facilities. 
    
    Run-up and taxi scenes were filmed aboard the Lex with the ship's
    deck crew acting as extras.  Just-after-touchdown sequences were
    done using a jury-rigged arresting wire; the subject aircraft was
    moved all the way to the stern, then powered up wherein the arresting
    hook caught the wire, throttle was retarded and the airplane was
    realistically pulled slightly backwards.  Actual landings were done
    on land with the runway 'decked' out to look like a carrier deck.
    Landing approach scenes were filmed both at sea and while the Lexington
    was tied up at dockside.  Once these 3 segments of the landing were
    edited together, it looked, for all the world, like an honest-to-
    goodness carrier landing.
    
    Descriptions of the aerial film work make for fascinating reading
    and provide a reason for we airplane nuts to watch for this upcoming
    mini-series.  Hopefully, there'll be plenty of aerial action to
    counterbalance the almost guaranteed generous helping of 'soap'
    the series will doubtless contain.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I saw some onf the show. I tuned in when they were in what appeared
    as a cross country race and then again when they were working on
    films,then again for the duration when she had moved to some farm.
    
    I found that interesting but didn't make the connection with Pancho's
    and "The Right Stuff" until it hit me in the face. During the flick
    I was overwelmed by the Traveler Air. Since I've seen the kit by
    Fred Reese I've had a soft spot in my heart for that ship. So I
    called Fred and talked to him for a few minutes. Seems that the
    program hadn't begun to air on the west coast when I called. Fred
    told me that the travel Air used in the film was a semi replica
    build and now housed at the EAA muesum. It has a different cowl,engine
    and a wider fuse. Still looked great on the tube. I almost bought
    a kit right then and there. I was in a buying mood last night. I'll
    wait however until I can get a 120 for it.  I do wish that they
    could make flicks that were factual.
    
    Tom

    I, too, wonder what the black and 'silver' (get yer' TV adjusted,
    Dan) aipplane that the wingwalker fell from was.  Something's rustling
    the cobwebs in the remote recesses of my memory but I can't get
    it to come forth.  Can anyone help?
    
    Amelia Earhart's plane in the cross-country race was, indeed, a
    Ryan STA.  Later in the pic when Pancho's training pilots, the plane
    Gene MacKendry arrives in is a Ryan PT-22.  Again, during the race,
    the little yellow bipe that Marvel crashes is [I'm pretty sure]
    a Rose Parakeet.  (Nit: Why does Hollyweird insist upon fostering
    the notion that if an aircraft loses power, it instantly falls into
    a spin and crashes??!!)   
    
    I'm totally in agreement with you, Dan; if it weren't for the flying
    scenes, I'da never watched this movie as the historic inaccuracies
    were rampant and blatant throughout.  Perhaps the _BIGGEST_ travesty
    of the flick was casting Valerie Bertinelli in the title role.  Now,
    I like Valerie just fine...cute little gal; but Pancho Barnes was
    big, heavy (fat) and had a face that's stop a sun-dial!  In "Yeager,"
    Chuck Yeager says that "the only asrgument about Pancho was whether
    she was the ugliest woman in the world or just one of the ugliest."
    I felt , throughout the film that better casting would've placed
    Bette Middler(sp?) in the role of Panco.  From everything I've ever
    read about her, she was a flamboyant, permiscuous, Hell-raiser with
    a mouth on her that'd embarrass a sailor....but she had a heart
    of gold and was totally unselfish with her friends.  Another inaccuracy
    is that the "Happy Bottom Riding Club" was a little more than a
    social club or dude-ranch...it was, in fact, a thinly disguised
    brothel. 

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Dan,
    
    Didn't the 2-holer Ryan have a small [Kinner] radial engine and
    lack wheel fairings and pants?  That's the primary difference between
    the STA and the PT-22.  The STA also had two cockpits but the forward
    cockpit was usually faired over and the windscreen removed when
    it was flown solo.
    
    The Orange bipe was, I'm pretty sure, a Waco Taperwing...at least,
    that's what I told my wife it was.  I can't give you a formula for
    telling ine 'Moth' from another.  I know the Tiger has the airfoiled
    fuel tank in the center-section of the top wing and, I'm pretty
    certain, the Puss-Moth was a high wing, cabin monoplane but, as
    to the Gypsy...??????  Want some more complication?  There was also
    a Moth-Minor which I can't begin to describe.  :B^)  

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Dan,
    
    Something just bubbled to the surface about that black & silver,
    gulled, eliptical winged bipe the wingwalker fell from.  I swear
    I've seen the plane before; I'm almost certain I've even seen a
    model of it.  My mind's eye sees a model done in red with black
    trim.  The name that's trying to come to mind is Bulldog...I can't
    recall who made it but I think the plane we're puzzling over might
    be a <mumble> Bulldog.  That name sure fits the pugnacious appearance
    of this bird, wouldn't you say?  I'd still love for someone who knows
    to put the lid on this mystery for us.   

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    Yeah, Dan, Its a four engined somethin' alright.  I'm not
    convinced that is a B-17, but I've known about that discrepancy
    for quite a while (Dr. Strange' is my favorite of all time movie).

    I just love the scene near the end, when Slim Pickens says "Well
    boys, I reckon this is it, nuclear conflict, toe to toe with the
    Rooskies" as he removes his flight helmet and puts on a Stetson.


    Randy

    That's "Nukeular conflict"... :-)
    
    The B-52 is 8-engined- but only 4 pods with 2 engines side-by-side
    in each pod.  The shadows of the -52 pod indeed look like a big 
    radial engines.
    
    The major test is this: are the wings of the shadow swept or not?
    
    I'd like to see the original ending (which Kubrick edited out after
    the Kennedy assassination), which has the "pie fight" in the war
    room.  The President (Merkin Muffley) gets a pie right in the face,
    and George C. Scott comments "Poor Mr. President, struck down in
    his prime".            
               
    
    		-Bill
    
    	"GENTLEMEN!  You can't fight in here!  This is the War Room!"
    
    
    		

    You can definitely see in the shadow that the plane is NOT a B-52.
    I have to disagree with you opinion that the engine pods look like
    large radials, 'cause I don't think so.

    Just remember, "At this altitude they might harpoon us, but they
    dang sure ain't gonna see us on no RADAR screen"

    I'm surprized no one mentioned the movie The Great Waldo Pepper.
    It's one of my favorite. Also, does anyone remember a movie called,
    Those Magnificent Men In There Flying Machines?

    RE: < Note 680.24 by DISCVR::JONEILL >

    > It's one of my favorite. Also, does anyone remember a movie called,
    > Those Magnificent Men In There Flying Machines?

	"They go up diddley-up-up,
	They come down diddley-down-down"

    :-)

    Don

    And I taped it...
    Anyone run PAL????
    Tony
    

    Not a movie exactly but the series Reach for the Skies currently
    running on the TNT cable channel is an outstanding series, well
    worth the time to watch it.

      |
      | |      00	 Adios,      Al
    |_|_|      ( >o
      |    Z__(O_\_	(The Desert Rat)

    I hate it when people WITH T.N.T. on their cable lord it over those of
    us who're not so lucky.  Record it Al, and mail us all a copy !

    (or just mail me a copy, my wife can high speed dub it on equipment
    where she works)


    Randy (8^D)

    
    
    	I thought a note about great aircraft movies would be in order.
    Over the weekend I watch "Midway". It was an interesting movie ever
    though I've seen it before. Sure a fare share of aircraft. This
    only problem I had with it was the number of cut in of aircraft
    that were not factual. Case in point is the close up of a pilot
    getting into a wildcat and the showing a hellcat taking off. Also
    a pilot getting into an aircraft and showing a SBD Dauntless
    taking off. Latter then showing him flying a Vindecator. Hopefully
    with the advent of coloring B&W pictures this practice will be
    lessened.
    
    
    Tom

There is a new movie out on ShowTime now called BAT-21.
I saw it twice this weekend - great.

Gene Hackman and Jerry Read and a very good black actor (sorry I didn't
catch his name).

It is based on a true story.

Gene Hackman is a Lt. Col flying on of the ECM seats on an Air Force
EA66B (Douglas Skywarrior) when they are shot down over Viet Nam.

The scenes of the B66 are pretty phony (especially the inside) but...

The rest of the story is about a FAC (the black man) flying an O2
and some helo guys trying to get Hackman out of the area.

Bottom line - great aircraft shots of several aircraft types.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

  


  It's fairly accurate up to the point where the Jolly goes down, except they
got nailed while trying to fly thru a SAM concentration.  Had a stuck mike so
they apparently couldn't hear the FAC trying to warn them.  There was another
USAF guy down on the other side of the line

  The part about the FAC going in with a Huey helicopter afterwards was phony
as hell, though.  The true story is even more amazing.  A team from the
Joint Personnel Recovery Center (JPRC) led by a USMC LtCol named Anderson
and a Navy SEAL Lt whose name escapes me got him out, though Anderson was
wounded by a mortar fragment and evacuated before the actual rescue.  In the 
end the USN Lt and one VN member of the team poled up the river at night in a 
sampan, dressed as VN peasants, right thru the NVA positions.  They made 
contact and brought LtCol Hambledon out the same way, concealed under the load 
in their sampan.

  I was the senior advisor to the ARVN regiment right across the river at
the time.  The whole drama unfolded in front of our positions and I saw the
Jolly Green shot out of the air.  The JPRC team went out thru our lines and
subsequently came back into our position where an APC picked up the wounded 
USAF guy.  He was so weak by then we all doubted he'd make it.

                                                                   HD  

Copied this over from the Plastic model notes file.  There were 2 replys so
far over there but nothing promising.

Along these same lines "Wings Over the World used to be on my (Warner) Cable
on channel 33 Sunday evenings at 7:00.  It has been missing for the
last two weeks - anybody know what it's status is?

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
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        <<< IOALOT::DUA3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]PLASTIC_SCALE_MODELING.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< Welcome to the Plast Scale Modeling Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 89.0                         PBS TV Series                        2 replies
MSHRMS::KEEFE "walk swiftly with a porpoise"         13 lines   4-JAN-1990 08:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      In the Feb issue of Fine Scale Modeler, under "Miscellaneous",
they mention that PBS stations will be broadcasting a 13-part series
titled "Adventures in Scale Modeling". It is supposidly to start this
month, and I was wondering if anybody out there knows when it will be
broadcast in the Boston area. PBS in this area is WGBH chan 2, and WGBX
chan 44.

      Appreciate any inputs.

      Tanks!
      Kevin

       

Well, I hate to be a naysayer, but I've seen one or two episodes
-- if you like Mr. Rogers, you'll love this!

    OK, _now_ I remember at least part of what I wanted to post here when
    the node took an unscheduled vacation.  It's a Dan Parsons story but of
    very recent vintage and not so humorous as interesting.
    
    It seems as though one of Dan's glass-cloth customers is/was involved
    in doing all the model work for the upcoming movie, "The Flight of the
    Intruder" and this fellow had invited Dan to come out to California and
    witness the filming of the model flights.
    
    The flight filming was scheduled for the weekend following our 1/8 AF
    Spring Scale Fly-In just past so Dan travelled from here to California
    to observe the action the next weekend.  Filming was done in the high
    desert area N.E. of the LA area, out towards Edwards AFB but that's as
    close as I can pinpoint the locale.
    
    Anyhoo, Dan's always prided himself and taken great pleasure in making the
    claim that he brings good weather with him wherever he visits and,
    uncannily, it almost seems to be that way the vast majority of the time
    (more a function of outhouse luck and good timing than of wizardry and/or
    witchcraft in my opinion and yet, most of the time, it appears that
    Dan's boasts are more fact than fiction).  By his own omission,
    however, his divine talent for weather failed him this time and it was
    far to windy to fly the entire weekend of the intended shooting. So, he
    didn't get to see the magnificent A-6 models fly (they flew and
    shooting was finished the following weekend) but he _did_ get to see
    them and meet the model and film crews.
    
    To Dan's surprise, one of the model team was none other than our good
    friend and master modeler, Garland Hamilton.  Garland was in charge of
    detailing/weathering the models for maximum realism and was also
    carried as a backup pilot.  (Dan adds that Garland did perform pilot
    duties for the actual shoot and was rapidly promoted to chief pilot.)
    
    But, about those models; Dan sent along two pix of the A-6 intruders
    and they looked FANTASTIC (pun intended)!  One pic shows Dan standing
    with  his arm extended ouward and up to the nose of one of the models
    which was mounted to the end of a boom extending forward from a pickup
    truck and, if Dan and the truck weren't there, you'd swear you were
    looking at the genuine article...awesome simulated aluminum finish.
    This model must've been shot from alongside by a camera in a moving
    vehicle to simulate low-level flying and may not have been airworthy.
    
    However, another pic shows at least 6 apparently airworthy Intruders
    sitting outside the semi-trailer they were transported in and they look
    every bit as real as the static model mounted to the pickup truck.  I
    know very little about the models themselves except to say that I'm
    unsure of the scale but they spal 10-feet!  They're powered by twin
    Byron fans but I have no inkling of what engines were used.  All I know
    is that they _DID_ fly and will be seen in the upcoming movie though
    I'll bet we'll never be able to pick the models out of the film...
    they're really THAT good. 
    
    BTW, Garland is a career Marine and is approaching retirement. 
    Actually, I think he's already eligible to retire but is getting some
    ducks in line before punching out.  Gar recently told me he hoped to
    get into the movie model and special F/X business after he leaves the
    Gyrenes and it sounds as if he's gotten a good toe-hold on that
    ambition already.  Hmmmmmmm, wonder if he needs any help...I'd almost
    consider moving to California (ugh!) to get involved in that kinda'
    work; how bout'choo?          
    
        			                 __
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      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    
    
    She understands that I spend too much money, spend too much time 
    away from  home flying, spend too much money, spend too much time 
    building airplanes, spend too much time not watching the road while 
    looking for possible flying sites, spend too much money, spend too 
    much time tinkering, take up too much space in the house, and use 
    furniture for purposes other than what it was intended for.
    
    There's no question she is VERY understanding. 8^)
    
    Steve

I have been taping the WINGS programs from the Discovery Channel.
These are reruns of the Great Planes and Strange Planes series.
I am willing to lend these tapes to anybody who is interested.

Volume 1

F111
Aircraft
B29 Super Fortress
Chopper Wars
B52 Strato Fortress
Thunderbirds (not a WINGS show)
Top Gun

Volume 2

AV8 Harier
Australian Air Show
B17 Flying Fortress
F4 Phantom
B24 Liberator
F4F Wildcat / F6F Hellcat

Volume 3

P38 Lightning
F86 Sabre
B25 Mitchell
Combat Choppers
Wings over the Sea
C130 Hercules
B26 Marauder

Volume 4

Dogfight
Fight for the Sky
F105 Thunderchief
Aircraft
B57 Canberra
XB70 Valkyrie

Volume 5 (in progress)

Spy Planes
Drones, Midgets, and Mutations
F14 Tomcat
Giants
Parasites

The Discovery Channel is broadcasting the WINGS series. This is
their brand name for the Great Planes and Strange Planes series.
Each week two episodes are broadcast, twice each. Here is the
schedule (times are Eastern Daylight Time):

		Wednesday, 9:00 pm	Friday 2:00 am (Thursday nite)
Week of:	Sunday 11:00 pm		Saturday 9:00 pm

6/18		F4 Phantom		B17 Flying Fortress
		(6/20, 6/24)		(6/21, 6/23)

6/25		F6F Hellcat,		B24 Liberator
		F4F Wildcat		(6/28, 6/30)
		(6/27, 7/1)

7/2		F104 Starfighter	P38 Lightning
		(7/4, 7/8)		(7/5, 7/7)

7/9		B25 Mitchell		F86 Sabre
		(7/11, 7/25)		(7/12,7/14)

7/16		747			DC-3/C47
		(7/18, 7/22)		(7/19, 7/21)

7/23		C130 Hercules		The Real Stuff (Canadian Armed
		(7/25, 7/29)			Forces aerobatic team)
					(7/26, 7/28)

7/30		B26 Canberra		Aircraft
		(8/1, 8/5)		8/2, 8/4)

    I just watched a 1985 video titled, The Aviator, with lots of screen
    time of two planes in 1918 and then 1928.   I believe the opening
    scenes were of a Stampe.  I don't know the other.

    Can someone who knows the Stampe verify this?  If the film would be a
    good building reference for a scale project, please reply under 771
    (whatever the plane designation).   If I was watching a poorly done
    fake, reply here.

    Alton, who enjoyed the flick that Betty (who rented it) said was based
    on a true incident

        Memories! I took my first ever flying lessons in a Tiger Moth.
        
        Andy
        

    re .50
    
    Al
    
    You're really testing me now: I think the 4C model had a Renault engine
    with a slightly different cowling. Unfortunately, I have given away my
    3 views, so I can't be 100% certain. Perhaps our UK noters can help.
    The Rothmans display team over there used Stampes for some time until
    they were replaced by Pitts (I think). Consequently, there are several
    UK kits and plans.
    The only one I know of here Downunder is a 4B.
    
    Tony
    

    Last night on PBS, Masterpiece Theater started a 6 part show called
    "Piece of Cake", the story of RAF Hornet squadron (fictitious) in
    the early days of WWII.
    All the flight scenes were done using contemporary restored Spits
    and were excellent, low level "beating up", etc. as well as a lot
    of taxiing, take offs. Also a bunch of non-flying replicas to fill
    out the flight line.
    All the Spits were later Marks and had four bladed props, the '39-'40
    Marks were three bladed, I think. Also there were several scenes
    with wrong roundels for the time period, but was too lazy to dig
    out my copy of "Camouflage and Markings" to pinpoint the error.
    All in all looks like it will be a very enjoyable show and worth
    a look if it's playing in your area.
    
    Terry
    

    Re -.1             
    
    This series was shown on UK televsion a while back. The Spitfire
    flying sequences were excellant and were the only reason I watched
    this program.
    
    Other than that, I believe that the series was not well received.
    Many veterens complained that the series was grossly inaccurate
    in its portayal of the behaviour of pilots of that era. I too was
    quite puzzeled as to why the pilots characters were no more than
    'upper class yobs'.
    
    Apparently, when confronted, the producers could offer no defence;
    other than that "the series was pure fiction" and not based on
    anything.
    
    Angus

    Terry,
           I don't have my historical facts ready for court,
    but I would bet that for the time period protrayed (early on),
    the Spits weren't even operational, and that all that early
    action against the Luftwaffe was rather done with "Hurryboxes".
     
    John

    RE: .-1, John,
    
    I think yer' wrong on this account.  By all means check it out but I'm
    pretty certain that Spitfires were, indeed, available at the outbreak
    of WW-II in Europe though not in as large numbers as was the Hurri.
    BTW, on the prop question, both the Spit and the Hurri originally flew
    and [I believe] entered combat with enormous 2-blade wooden props which
    were shortly replaced with 3-blade, constant speed Rotol props which,
    in the beginning, had wood blades though they looked virtually the same
    as the later metal blades.
    
    Early on in the Battle of Britain, the tactic was developed to let the
    Spits deal with the German fighters while the slower but more robust
    Hurri's went after the bomber formations.  They weren't always able to
    mantain this role separation but it was held to whenever possible. 
    BTW, the Hurri accounted for the destruction of _many_ more German
    aircraft destroyed during the BoB than did the Spit, even though the
    latter received most of the glory.
						 __
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      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Yeah, I agree with Al that there were at least several squadrons
    of Spits operational in Sept. '39. As if I didn't have enough to
    do getting ready to go on vacation thurs., now I'll have to look
    up some stuff on markings because I can't remember When the wide
    blue circle with the red meatball roundel came into use.
    The Spits appeared to be of Mk. XV - XIX vintage but I'm not sure
    why I think that, other than the props.
    
    I can imagine that RAF vets might take exception to the character
    portrayals, they seemed to old also. Although in '39 they hadn't
    yet had to call on teenagers to maintain an adequate pilot roster.
    
    Was that red roadster a Riley or Invicta, or ?
    
    Terry
    

    The Boston Globe, of last Sunday-7/8/90, did a short review
    of this TV series, and pretty much is on track with the 
    comments that I,m seeing on these notes, particularly with
    regard to what Angus said in comment .53, that is - that
    the series was not well received in "Jolly Old..." because
    of both the technical inaccuracies, and the somewhat less
    than noble light that was shed on those truly "Magnificent
    men in their flying machines" that fought so valiantly in
    the skies over Britain.  (Everywhere!, for that matter)
    
    John

>    Last night on PBS, Masterpiece Theater started a 6 part show called
>    "Piece of Cake", the story of RAF Hornet squadron (fictitious) in
>    the early days of WWII.

Rats - I missed it.  Only chance now is if PBS channel 57 out of Springfield
carries it later in the week.  I bet 57 on cable but don't have a TV guide
that covers the Springfield area.  Soooooooo

Did anybody tape the first part?  I sure would like to see part 1 before
part two comes on.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Re: .-1, Kay,
    
    If yer' PBS channel is like the one here, and I'm sure it is, they'll
    probably repeat the episode sometime within the first week after
    originally broadcast.  I too missed the first episode (though I wonder
    how big a loss that was based on the reviews I'm seeing) and am
    watching the listings for a repeat.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

I've got the guide at home and I'll try to remember to check it. You get the 
guide when you pledge to WGBH. You DO pledge to keep these series running and 
new ones being financed, don't you ;^)

    After all tese years, I finally got "Those magnificent Men and their
    Flying Machines" on tape last night.  I'd forgotten what a completely
    delightful flick this was.  Made in 1965, it came across just as fresh
    and funny as it did when I originally saw it in the theaters.
    
    Stuart Whitman and Sarah Miles (I'd fogotten how cute she was back
    then) are the lead characters, Whitman playing the American entrant
    (from Phoenix, AZ), Orville Newton, while Miles is the tomboyish
    daughter of the stuffed-shirt newspaper publisher who sponsors the air
    race from London-to-Paris.
    
    Gert Frobe, not yet known as the super-villain, "Goldfinger," is
    hilarious as the officer in command of the German contingent entered in
    the air race.  Also, I don't know how many of you are English comic Benny 
    Hill fans (I am) but I guess I'd never noticed that the chief of the 
    Keystone-Kops type fire fighters at the airfield was played by none other 
    than Benny his'self...some funny bits therein.
    
    The late Terry Thomas plays the villainous "Sir Percy" to the hilt and
    the scenes between him and his unwilling servant as they sabotage the
    competition are great.
    
    While many of the airplanes are fantastic figments of someone's
    imagination, several accurate flying replicas of vintage aircraft
    highlight the flying sequences, among them an Antoinette, Curtiss
    pusher, Avro triplane and French Demoiselle.  
    
    All-in-all, great fun.  In the almost inconceivable event that you
    haven't seen this great movie, I recommend you catch it first chance
    you get...for those who _have_ seen it, enjoy it again.
						 __
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      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    HEAR!, HEAR!, Al,  one of the most delightful aviation flicks
    I've ever seen.  The cinematography is breathtaking !  I have
    been in love with that Demoiselle ever since seeing it chuga-
    chugin' over the georgious countryside, and imagining me sittin'
    there, hanging out in the breeze, just wafting along.......!
    
    Talk about being part of your machine.
    
    What's that ? .. Demoiselle is an Airplane !, not..........
    well, I am in that latter stage where I need to 'check my
    notes' about what that word may connotate fer' you younger
    types, besides, women come and go.  Airplanes are forever !
    
    A great movie..see it if you haven't.               John

    RE: .58, .59, Kay,
    
    Below is a reply on the PBS series "A Piece of Cake" copied from the
    HISTORY notesfile.  This may help point you to a replay of the first
    episode of the series.
    
    Adios, amigo,	Al
    *********************************************************************
    
           <<< SWECSC::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HISTORY.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -< Alea Jacta Est! >-
================================================================================
Note 206.6                       A Piece of Cake                          6 of 9
POKIE::WITCHEY "I'm the NRA"                         12 lines  10-JUL-1990 01:31
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    re. 2
    
    According to my television guide it's on once a week but if you
    missed last night's episode, PBS often shows a repeat during the
    off-hours. In Denver, last night's show will be repeated at 1:30
    PM on Thursday. You might check your local listing around then. 
    
    FWIW, the program is based on a novel by Derek Robinson (sp?) who
    has also written "Goshawk Squadron" and "War Story", both dealing
    with WWI aviation. 
    
    'gards,

Not exactly an aviation flick but I watched "Navy Seals" last night
and there was one sequence where they were filming above some
moon lit clouds as a C130 breaks thru climbing at about a 35-40 degree
angle - awsome!  Also the parachute sequence later out the back
of the Hurky Bird at 35,000 feet was neat.

As for the rest of the movie - I'll give it a 5 out of 10.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Well,  I recently watched this movie called "Always" about fire fighting
    pilots.  Basically, it s*cked.  It is, however, worth watching for two
    amusing scenes with Richard Dryfus (sp?) as the Pilot of an A-26 (or
    B-26, depending on your point of view).  The first is quite early in the
    film, Ricky runs out of fuel after making "just one more run" at a fire,
    and has to glide in a tree top to make it back to the field.  The
    second, and by far the better, is the scene where Ricky comes to the
    rescue of his pal whose Catalina's got an engine fire that just won't
    go out, by dumping some of his load on the Cat in a fast overfly.  I've
    got an issue of MAN that features the modeling they did for this scene,
    and it looked quite good on film.  The scene comprises the high point of
    the film, 'cause Dryfus buys the farm at the end it.

    The film is definitely not worth watching after this last scene is over,
    so don't torture yourself, change the channel.

    Hey I thought it was a good movie, although I dont like John Goodman
    who played Dryfus's buddy.   Take a watch, I think it has good flying
    in it and is good film...
    
    

    Of course it's a little far fetched, but then again, I watch movies
    to be entertained, not to critique them.
    
    Steve

    I just saw adverstisement for the A&E(Arts and Entertainment) series
    "Our Century" that will be broadcast this Wednesday at 9:00 p.m(EST).
    This episode is called the "Battle of Britain" and it looks pretty
    interesting. I also checked to see what would be on  "Wings"(which airs
    at the same time on Discovery Channel), and it's the show about the Martin
    B-57 Canberra(I've seen this one twice already.) Get your VCRs ready!
    
    -Lamar( who saw his first "real live" P51-D in flight this weekend!!!)

I saw Air America last weekend.

It was excellant.
Interesting story line and great flying.
On a scale of 1-10 I give it a 9.

My wife even liked it!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Saw an older one called "Zeppelin" this past weekend.  Zeppelin stars
    Michael York and Elke Sommer and deals with the Zepp's used by Germany 
    during WW-I.
    
    York plays a Brit of German descent (with close relatives still living
    in the Fatherland) who's selected by the military to desert/defect to
    Germany to learn about the newest German airships and report same back
    to England.  In the course of this mission, York becomes involved in a
    secret mission to land German commandos (from the newest Zeppelin) in Wales 
    (I think), where all the most important/priceless English artifacts/relics
    are supposedly secured in the dungeon safe(s) of an ancient castle. 
    The objective was to steal the Magna-Carta for the supposed negative
    effect the theft of this priceless document would have upon British
    morale.
    
    While not a classic by any stretch of the imagination, Zeppelin
    nevertheless gives you some interesting perspectives into the inner
    workings of Germany's gigantic dreadnaughts of the skies.  A
    particularly good scene is near the end where the fleeing Zepp' fights
    to stay just above the service ceiling of attacking SE5A's which stall
    and fall away just shy of the airship's altitude but still manage to
    inflict some damage.
    
    Good flick for a lazy Saturday/Sunday afternoon with a bowl of popcorn
    in yer' lap.                                                      
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				|      |        / |\	   	       
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      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    re -2
    
    What pray is the Martin B57 Canberra?
    
    It must have been a bomber, 2 engine? crew of three?
    
    I know the British Canberra 2 jet light bomber/reconnaisance of the
    50's era - any relation?
    
    regards  George Frost

    The Martin B-57 was the US version of the English Electric B.2 Canberra.

    The aspect ratio was increased a bit over 50% and the design became
    successful in several variations in the US (in parallel to the
    successful variations of its stubby winged British brothers).  The
    original had a crew of three, but the B-57 and at least some of the
    British variations had a crew of two.

    When I went to work for The Glenn L. Martin Company in June of '56, the
    tarmac was covered with B-57's.  Beautiful planes.

Al -- was that the one where they had to lighten the blimp after
throwing everything out, so the crew one-by-one lined up at the
hatch and jumped out -- shouting something about "for the
Fatherland" as they went?  Little bit of subtle Hollywood
propaganda, no?

Had some nice flight shots of the hero in his blimp-busting mode.
I think they finally brought the thing down by crashing into it.

    Re: .-1, John,
    
    I think you've got the right flick, though yer' memory is a tad flawed.
    After their assault on the castle failed to produce the Magna-Carta,
    which they intended to steal, the Germans fled under fire back to their
    Zeppelin which was thoroughly "holed" by gunfire during the escape.
    
    The German skipper knew he must attain altitude higher than the ceiling
    of the SE5A fighters that would try to intercept the blimp at first
    light.  Emergency patches sealed the leaks in the hydrogen gas cells but
    enough gas had been lost that they had great difficulty
    achieving/maintaining their height, just barely higher than the SE5A's
    could climb.  However, the intercepting planes were able to fire at the
    Zepp as they climbed from below and opened a new batch of holes/leaks
    in the hydrogen cells.
    
    Struggling to maintain altitude, the Germans dumped everything they
    could overboard including their dead comrades.  The wounded commando
    leader crawled to an opening and threw hiself out in a last-gasp effort
    to help lighten the ship but he was the only live crewman to go
    overboard.
    
    At last escaping the attackers, the fatally wounded Zeppelin finally came 
    down in the sea within swimming distance of the Dutch coast and the
    survivors, including our hero, Michael York, and his love interest, Elke
    Sommer, would be interned for the remainder of the war.  The movie ends
    with the survivors wading ashore into the waiting arms of the neutral
    Dutch as the Zeppelin explodes and burns behind them.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
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      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Kathi and I rented a bunch'a movies this weekend, among them a post-
    holocaust, sci-fi thing called "Slipstream" starring Mark Hammil with
    Ben Kingsley and F. Murray Abraham in minor roles.  Respectable
    sounding cast but the movie was a disappointment...a real yawner which
    literally put me to sleep.
    
    So, why do I bother to mention it?  Only because one of our noters, Kay
    Fisher to be specific, is avidly interested in modeling the plane which
    served as the centerpiece of this film, the <mumble> Optica.
    
    I recommend that Kay (and anyone else interested in this futuristic
    looking plane) rent this movie as it contains numerous scenes of the
    Optica, mostly in flight, and should give one a good perspective for
    the ship.  Ignore the [so-called] plot and focus on this interesting
    aircraft and it might just be worth the rental price.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
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      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

One of the local TV channels is presently running a BBC series of one hour
documentaries called "Reaching for the Skies". 

It started off the first week with the Wright brothers and went through to the
Concord in a brief rundown of flight. Since then we have had the "lighter then
air" craft, the quest for speed which had some excellent footage on the Reno
and Snider(sp) Cup races, Bombers, the Navy, and this last week the Giants of
the Sky. Next week I think is the final and its on the fighter's. The promo's
showed from Foker Tri Plane, to P51's and F15's, it looks good. 

It has been good but sometimes has bogged down with detail unrelated to the
topic. eg: during the Bombers segment it must have spent 10 mins on the Dresden
fire bombings of WWII when Aircraft such as the Mosquito were completely
missed. 

It's probably an ancient series in the UK so you might catch the reruns, I
think the only shows we get before the Poms is "Home and Away" and "Neighbours"
a somewhat irritating pair of Aussie Soaps enjoyed by teenagers in Oz and the
UK. 

John

    I can highly recommend Memphis Belle. Great photography. Good acting.
    Good story line. No obvious technical boo-boos, except in the final
    scene with two burnin' and two turnin', landing with no crash/fire
    trucks to meet them....?
    
    Terry
    

    Many, perhaps most, of you may be aware that the current movie, Memphis
    Belle, is what you'd call a dramatic remake of the 1944 documentary
    also titled, oddly enough, Memphis Belle.
    
    For the most part, the original 'Belle documented the 25th and last
    mission of the B-17 named Memphis Belle which flew with the 8th Air
    Force out of England.  Why was this special?  Because, during a time
    when a new bomber crew's life expectancy was three (3) weeks, the Belle
    and her crew were the very first to actually survive 25 combat missions 
    rand rotate back stateside.  An awful lot of hoopla was made over this
    event, including the documentary mentioned above.
    
    For those who'd like to see the original 1944 documentary (which is in
    color, BTW), here's great news: it's showing this coming Sunday night on 
    TDC (The Discovery Channel) at 10:00 PM EST, right before Wings.  Make
    sure you've got a fresh video tape and get'cher VCR warmed up.  I've
    seen this before, though quite awhile ago, and I can tell you it's
    worth seeing and taping though you'll note that historical fact does,
    indeed, vary somewhat from Hollyweird's version of same.  ;b^}
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    My son brought Firebirds home from the video rental store last week and
    we watched it. A little short on the plot but some real good simulator
    scenes and a few good air combat scenes. If you enjoy heavily armed
    choppers duking it out, rent it. Probably not worth the $5 a head at
    the movies but well worth the couple of bucks at the local video store

    Re: .-1, Jim,
    
    Minor point of interest: the company that did all the model chooper
    work for this film is located here in the greater Phoenix area and we
    had one of the models (the only one that wasn't intentionally destroyed
    during filming) displayed with the 1/8 AF's static display for the big
    Art Show and Fighter Symposium at Champlin's Fighter Museum last month.
    Interestingly, it wasn't terribly large or particularly well done but
    it could be plainly seen how it would look quite real to the cameras.
    
    Re. "Memphis Belle:"  I saw the movie yesterday morning then taped the
    original 1944 documentary of the same name from TDC last night.  
    
    SPOILER WARNING!  If you haven't yet seen it, information that might 
    spoil your enjoyment of the movie Memphis Belle follows the form feed.  
    Press Next Unseen NOW, if you'd prefer not to see what follows 'til AFTER 
    you've seen the movie.  If you've already seen the movie or won't be
    bothered by reading information about it before seeing it, press return or 
    next screen to view.
    
    Last warning, press Next Unseen now if what follows might spoil your
    enjoyment of the movie, Memphis Belle.
    
    
    Interestingly, the two films had very little in common beyond the name of 
    the aircraft and the basic plot premise of it being the first plane/crew 
    to rotate home after completing 25 missions...even the names of the crew 
    were changed in the movie.
    
    Actually, the documentary, past its historical value and its [then]
    morale building and war bond selling value, was pretty mundane by
    comparison to the movie and would have minimal entertainment potential
    to the masses...the movie was FAR more entertaining, if almost totally
    fictional.  All the things seen in the movie DID happen to bombers and
    crews during the strategic bombing of France and Germany but NOT to the
    Memphis Belle...this ship and her crew went home virtually unscratched,
    (which was quite an accomplishment in itself).
    
    One thing the movie did VERY well was the authentic/accurate interiors
    of the B-17 used to shoot the combat scenes.  The flight suits/uniforms/
    guns/radio and other equipment looked exactly like they did in the 1944
    documentary.
    
    I enjoyed the movie immensely but still have to wonder, beyond the mass
    entertainment potential, why it was necessary to stray so far beyond
    fact.  (This is a question I have ANYTIME Hollyweird makes a historical
    movie).  All the things that befell the crew of the Belle could just as
    easily have been portrayed as happening to other planes/crews on the
    mission.  And, why was the mission's target changed in the movie...to
    what purpose??  The real Belle's mission was to the sub pens (and other
    targets) in Wilhelmshaven, not Bremen.  I suppose it has something to
    do with abetting the normal disclaimer that the characters are
    fictional and any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is
    purely coincidental.  
    
    Any how, again, I enjoyed the Hell out'a the movie, disregarding the
    deviations from the actual mission, and recommend it highly.  Just bear
    in mind that the story is pure fiction (I guess the correct buzz-word
    is 'docu-drama') and you'll find it one of the best air-war movies ever
    made. 
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    While not exactly a movie, this seems to belong here more than anywhere
    else.  Did anyone watch Wings' episode on Soviet Airpower last night?
    
    WOW!  What an eye opener?!  Anyone laboring under the dillusion that
    the Soviet Air Force is a second rate outfit flying crude, inferior
    aircraft needs to watch this program.  That opinion couldn't be farther
    from the truth!  I wouldn't want to have to pick the winner if the U.S.
    and USSR ever duked it out in the air.  They have the largest Air Force
    in the world, equipped with _extremely_ good aircraft (the MiG-29 is
    arguably the finest fighter in the world) and possess more SAM's and
    "smart" missiles than the rest of the world combined.  
    
    This Wings episode will leave you a bit unsettled; shake yer' sense of
    security more than a little...it certainly did me!  In the past, the
    Wednesday episode was repeated on the following Sunday by TDC but I'm
    not sure they haven't altered that schedule.  If not, I plan to tape
    this episode and highly recommend that all who are interested,
    especially the nay-sayers, make a point of catching this startling
    program...I doubt there'll be many nay-sayers left among those who
    watch it.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    I saw this too and I'll agree with all previous statments. But IMHO
    the majority, almost all, of the footage came from a Soviet Air
    Force publicity film. Note the credits at the end. Also the narrator
    had a  mixture of British and American english pronunciations.
    His accent was a curiously flat Americanized style as if he had
    learned English from both American and British sources and was
    uncertain as to when to use either. The short interview with the
    U.S. F-18 pilot was inserted from another source. Note how the quality
    of the film changed abruptly.
    The most interesting scenes IMO, were the airborne shots of the
    Tupolev Bears. In one scene, an F-4 is hanging just behind the tail.
    In others, several F-15s are 'escorting' it. The easy explanation
    for these scenes is that they were shot from another U.S. plane
    during an intercept, but I'd be willing to bet they were shot from
    another Bear during several different intercepts.
    An interesting film, but at the end I felt sort of like I had sat
    through a latter day "Triumph of the Will".
    
    Terry

    Did anyone catch the replay of Wings: Soviet Airpower last night?  I
    taped the episode, having found it crammed with views of current
    Russian aircraft that are rarely seen in the western world.
    
    Someone mentioned they thought this episode might've been produced by
    the Russians as it certainly makes their air might appear formidable
    but I don't think this is the case.  The narrator spoke perfect
    American English save for his pronouncement of the word Soviet; he
    pronounced it Sah-viet where most people say Soe-viet.  Also, while I
    haven't really studied the closing credits, I didn't see any
    acknowledgement to any Russian or other eastern bloc country(ies).
    
    In any event, it's not difficult to see this piece is intended to make
    the Soviet Air Forces look just as good, just as formidable as possible
    and it accomplishes this goal in fine fashion.  One definitely comes
    away wondering if U.S. air services are even equal to the Russians',
    let alone superior.
    
    BTW, according to the narrative, the fine shots of the Bear were taken
    somewhere in the far north, probably somewhere over the Bering Sea
    area.  The narrator mentions that Bears are frequently intercepted by
    F-15's stationed in Alaska just as the scene shows two -15's, one on
    either side, checking out the Bear.  As someone else mentioned, a
    previous scene shows an F4 Phantom-II flying slightly above and behind
    the Bear and the angle makes the big Russian bomber look enormous.  I'm
    sure these scenes were shot from other U.S. planes, part of the
    intercept flight.
    
    This piece is a definite must but be prepared, even after culling out
    the propaganda, to be somewhat unsettled by Russia's obvious capability
    for making war in the air!
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

>    Did anyone catch the replay of Wings: Soviet Airpower last night?  I
>    taped the episode, having found it crammed with views of current
>    Russian aircraft that are rarely seen in the western world.

    I've been recording Wings since the first episode (XB-70, was it?).
    I've got 5 tapes with 7 episodes a-peice.  Commercials edited out.  I've
    only missed the B-25 episode, and a few of the batch they've been
    running most recently.

>    pronounced it Sah-viet where most people say Soe-viet.  Also, while I

    Yes.  My wife watched this episode with me, and she'de repeat "Sah Viet"
    right after the announcer would say it, every time, just to drive me
    crazy.  I finally had to threaten her with the Fireplace Poker to get
    her to stop 8*).

>    BTW, according to the narrative, the fine shots of the Bear were taken
>    somewhere in the far north, probably somewhere over the Bering Sea

    They said the planes were stationed at mumbleDorf airbase in Alaska.
    
>    This piece is a definite must but be prepared, even after culling out
>    the propaganda, to be somewhat unsettled by Russia's obvious capability
>    for making war in the air!

    Yes, but they don't have Stealth.  You should start watching this show
    called Firepower.  It's on on Fridays and Sundays.  This weeks episode
    featured Stealth technology.  Lot's of *REAL* good stuff on the 117 and
    B-2.

    Randy

RE:Note 680.95

>    This piece is a definite must but be prepared, even after culling out
>    the propaganda, to be somewhat unsettled by Russia's obvious capability
>    for making war in the air!
						 __
Oh, I don't know about that Al. I thought the scenes of that truck convoy 
hauling all those busted Hind helicopters and that bomber were real 
interesting. For an "unreliable missle", that Stinger did some damage.

                                                        /     \ /
Dan Eaton - Demented                                   /      / \ 
            Dragonfly                                 /       #  
            Pilot                                    /        #
                                                    /        #
                                                   \       # 
                                                  //@@@ #
                                                 / l @##  .  
                                                /   #@   .
                                               /        .
                           @                  /       \.
                          _/\
                            /\_
                            l 
                                                       

    Re: .96, Randy,
    
    Yep', you jogged the ol' memory...it was Elemendorf AFB, Alaska where
    the F-15's were based.
    
    Re: .97, Dan'l,
    
    Guess who provided the Mujahadim with the Stingers...yep', us, as in
    U.S.  I wouldn't be too far misled by the footage showing the wrecked
    heli-whompters being trucked out.  We lost a gob of 'em in Vietnam too. 
    Let's face it, choppers are sitting ducks to a kid with a slingshot and
    losses are expected to be high.  The overiding point is that the USSR
    has jillions of aircraft and the pilots to fly them so they can afford
    a higher attrition rate than another could and still [possibly] prevail 
    in an air war.  Sobering stuff, no matter how ya' cut it and we'd be
    foolhardy to simply dismiss Soviet airpower out of patriotism, or
    whatever motive.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Re: .96, Randy,
    
    I forgot to mention that the Wings episode on the B-25 was just
    repeated a coupla' two-three weeks ago.  Yeah, I know...a fat lotta'
    good that does you _now_, right?!  Problem is we don't know ahead of
    time which episodes are coming up and [at least] _my_ TV schedule
    rarely prints what episode is being shown...it just says, "Wings,"
    period!
    
    Some while back someone posted the episode schedule for Wings and it
    was a big help in planning which episodes to watch, tape, etc.  I can't
    remember who posted the schedule but, whoever it was, if yer' still
    privvy to that info, how'zabout posting a current schedule?. 
    Grass-ee-ass in advance! 
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Al, the next Wings will be on the F-105. Shows on wednesday, here.
    

    Re: .-1, Terry,
    
    The F-105 again...?  The F-105 episode was just on a month or so ago
    and, since the feed comes from TDC, I have to believe everyone gets the
    same programming at the same time although I guess the individual cable
    service(s) might be able to jockey the schedule around some.  In any
    event, it seems awfully soon to be repeating the F-105 episode since it
    aired so recently...oh well, I'm sure I'll watch it anyway.  I wish
    they'd repeat the [to me] really good ones on the P-51, P-47, F6F etc.
    as regularly as they do some of the others...I've only caught the P-51
    just once and that was quite awhile ago.  Did they ever do one on the
    F4U......?  I don't seem to remember an episode on the Corsair and that
    seems a terrible omission to me.  For that matter, I don't recall
    episodes on the Sptifire and Hurricane either which seems odd as the
    "Great Planes" series shown on Wings was produced in England...can it
    possible be that the Brits don't consider the Spit and the Hurri Great
    Planes...?  Somehow I find that hard to swallow. 
    
    We get Wings on Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday here in Phoenix.  We
    used to get it on Tuesday's too but they've stopped that as of about a
    month ago.  Wednsday and Sunday are always repeats of the same episode
    while Saturday is different.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    re.  -1
    Al, it sounds like your Wings schedule is the same as it is here.
    I just got cable so they're all new to me. 
    Some of the lack of British aircraft programs may be due to the
    possibility that the British manufacturers didn't do film documentation
    during the aircrafts' developement to the extent that the U.S. did.
    Also some of it may have been destroyed during WWII.
    The German footage is usually of combat operations or propagandistic
    especially if Hitler was present. I'd love to see some film of the
    He-111, 5 engine glider tug tests. Of course who knows how much
    of their footage was destroyed too.
    
    Terry
    

    The Wings shows run on, what is either 2 schedules or 3 schedules, I'm
    not sure.

    Wednesday and Saturday at 9:00 PM EST is the Primary schedule.  They
    show all the new programs (like the one on "Sahviet" Aircraft) at this
    time.

    There's also a scheduled program on Sunday, sometime, that's re-runs of
    show already premiered.

    I've also discovered the show at Midnight, which nights, I can't
    remember.

    So, it's scattered all over.  TDC doesn't really have a LOT of different
    programs, and so they run the shows all over the schedule to fill out
    their 24 hour programming.

This is the programming schedule for The Discovery Channel's
WINGS series, from Nov 26 thru Dec 30, 1990.

Each week two episodes are broadcast, twice each. Here is the
schedule (times are Eastern Standard Time):

		Tuesday, 11:00 pm	Wednesday, 9:00 pm	
Week of:	Saturday, 9:00 pm	Sunday 11:00 pm

11/26		P51 Mustang (GP)	Modern Missiles (MCA)
		(11/27, 12/1)		(11/28, 12/2)

12/3		Martin Canberra (GP)	Future Combat Aircraft (MCA)
		(12/4, 12/8)		12/5, 12/9)

12/10		McDonnell Douglas	Air Combat Today (MCA)
		F15 Eagle (GP)		(12/12, 12/16)
		(12/11, 12/15)

12/17		McDonnell Douglas	Wings -The Jet Age
		F18 (GP)		(12/19, 12/23)
		(12/18, 12/22)

12/24		Republic P47		Boeing B29 Superfortress (GP)
		Thunderbold (GP)	(12/26, 12/30)
		(12/25,12/29)

GP - from the Great Planes series
MCA - from the Modern Combat Aircraft series

Here are a few more interesting shows I picked out of the program guide:

Carriers (30 minutes, Thursdays midnight, Fridays 9:00 pm, Sundays 5:00 pm)
Firepower (30 minutes, immediately following Carriers)

Carriers: Lessons of War
Firepower: Combat Chopper 11/29, 11/30, 12/2

Carriers: Korea
Firepower: The Silent War 12/6, 12/7, 12/9

Carriers: Vietnam - Dixie Station, Yankee Station
Firepower: Dogfight  12/13, 12/14, 12/16

Carriers: Vietnam - A Different Kind of War
Firepower: Clash of Armor 12/20, 12/21, 12/23

Carriers: Super Carriers
Firepower: Fight for the Sky 12/27, 12/28, 12/30

Discovery Sunday: Pearl Harbor Attack: 12/2 10:00 pm, 2:00 am

Vietnam: The Ten Thousand Day War - Tuesdays Midnight, Saturdays 10:00 pm, 
	Sundays 4:00 pm

Survival! Tuesdays 8:00 pm, Thursdays 11:00 pm, Sundays 3:00 pm

    

I saw a special on the Memphis Belle on one of the Public stations
the other day - it was 1 hour long and excellent.  It showed clips
of both the movie and the documentary.  Most was narrated by a young
lady who's father narrated the original documentary.  They arranged
to have the original Memphis Belle crew flown to England to meet
their actor counter parts.  It was a big thrill for all the crew
and a big thrill for me to watch them.  They also show an accident
during filming where one B17 gets totaled on takeoff - no injuries.

If you've seen the movie this is a must see special.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Re: .-1,
    
    The program Kay's referring to is called "Memhis Belle and the Glory
    Guys."  I taped it from [I'm pretty sure] the A&E channel a little over
    a week ago.  As Kay sez, lots'a interesting stuff regarding filming the
    recent movie.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Re: .104, Attn. Dave Hughes,
    
    The program schedule for Wings expires with this week's episodes on the 
    P-47 and the B-29.  The schedule has been invaluable as I've been
    trying to tape those episodes of particular interest to me.
    
    Any chance you can put up a new schedule for future week's programming,
    Dave???  Pretty Pulleeeeeeeze.......  ;b^)
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    I won't say why just yet as it affects the current Trivia question but
    it's worthwhile to catch "Living Dangerously" on A&E tonight @ 6:00 MST
    (8:00 EST?).  I'll just say it's a good 1-hour aviation documentary.
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    My apologies, amigos.  A&E doublecrossed me and put a special on Smart
    Weapons into the time slot where Living Dangerously was to be seen last
    night.  It was a good show but not the one I wanted you to see.
    
    This program was to've been a repeat of the Wednesday night airing of a
    docu-history on the U.S.A.F. Thunderbirds. (Now you know why all the
    T-birds questions in Trivia lately.)  In any event, watch the schedule
    for any subsequent repeat of Living Dangerously this week (A&E frequently 
    repeats their programs 3-4 times weekly) and check it to see if it's
    the T-birds show.  I found it immensely interesting, especially the
    parts covering the early days of the team as I was unaware (somehow)
    that they'd originally formed right here in Phoenix.  I _DO_ remember
    seeing them fly F-84's at a Luke AFB open house {evidently] right after
    they'd formed. 
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

This is the programming schedule for The Discovery Channel's
WINGS series, from Feb 25 thru  March 31, 1991. 

Each week two episodes are broadcast, twice each. Here is the
schedule (times are Eastern Standard Time):

           Tuesday, 11:00 pm            Wednesday, 9:00 pm
Week of:   Saturday, 9:00 pm            Sunday 11:00 pm

2/25       Reconnaissance and Intelli-  Vertical (SP)
           gence Aircraft (MCA)         (2/27, 3/3)
           (2/26, 3/2)

3/4        Modern Missiles (MCA)        Strange Shapes (SP)
           (3/5, 3/9)                   (3/6, 3/10)

3/11       Future Combat Aircraft (MCA) Eyes in the Sky (SP)
           (3/12, 3/16)                 (3/13, 3/17)

3/18       Air Combat Today (MCA)       Drones, Mutants, and Midgits (SP)
           (3/19, 3/23)                 (3/20, 3/24)

3/25       Wings - The Jet Age          Giants (SP)
           (3/26, 3/30)                 (3/27, 3/31)

GP - from the Great Planes series
MCA - from the Modern Combat Aircraft series
SP - from the Strange Planes series


Here are a few more interesting shows I picked out of the program guide:

Firepower 30 minutes, Wednesday nite (Thurs morning) 12:30am
                      Friday 9:30 pm
                      Sunday 4:30 pm
Combat Choppers (2/27, 3/1, 3/3)
U.S.A.F.E. - Strike FOrce (3/6, 3/8, 3/10)
U.S.A.F.E. - Wild Weasels (3/13, 3/15, 3/17)
Royal Air Force (3/20, 3/22, 3/24)
Desert Wargames (3/27, 3/29, 3/31)

Challenge: The Real Stuff (Snowbirds, the Canadian Armed Forces aerobatic team
                               2/27-28 (2:00 am), 3/2 8:00 pm)
           Gossamer Albatross (3/27-28 2:00 am, , 3/30 8:00 pm)

The Nature of Things: A Sky Full of Planes (3/9-10 2:00 am, 3/10, 8:00 pm)
                      Aircraft (3/23-24 2:00 am, 3/24 8:00 pm)

War Chronicles: Air War in the Pacific (3/27 midnight, 3/29 9:00 pm, 
                                        3/31 4:30 pm)

[RC note 680]

    Re: .-1,
    
    Thanx, Dave.  Now, if you get yer' April guide prior to March 29 (my
    last day) and can post it here, I'll be all set.  Gar-cee-ass, a-mee-go!
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Last night I caught part of the movie "Fighter Squadron" on TNT
    (Turner Network Television?).  The movie itself (ie, the plot)
    wasn't captivating (at least to me), but the flying scenes were
    fantastic!

    TONS of footage of P-47's starting, taking off, landing (even one w/
    gear-up), and fighting (supposedly) German planes which were
    actually P-51's.  About half of the fighting footage appeared to be
    actual gun camera footage and was quite spectacular. 

    After it was over, I thought, "Rats... I shoulda' videotaped this
    for Kevin Ladd since I'm sure he'd like to see the P-47 scenes."
    (Kevin doesn't get cable yet...)

    Does anyone out there have a copy of this movie?

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    See note 680.10 for Al Casey's much better description of the
    movie...  Apparently, Al's got it on tape too.  (Lucky devil...)

                       _____
                      |     \
                      |      \                          Silent POWER!
      _        ___________    _________   |            Happy Landings!
     | \      |           |  |         |  |
     |--------|-  SANYO  + ]-|  ASTRO  |--|              - Dan Miner
     |_/      |___________|  |_________|  |
                      |       /           |     " The Earth needs more OZONE,
                      |      /                       not Castor Oil!! "    
                      |_____/

    I _used_ ta' have it on tape but I loaned it to somebody(?) and never
    got it back.  Of course, NObody remembers borrowing it so I guess I
    lose.
    
    As you say, the plot is nothing to write home about but it's so damned
    patriotically corny that it's entertaining.  Catch all the little
    cliche's like, "Tell the taxpayers to get me another one," after Edmond
    O'Brien bellys in his P-47..."I been workin' on the railroad," sung in
    the R/T as a pilot strafes a locomotive...etc., etc.  I think it's
    great if you listen in the proper perspective. 
						 __
				|      |        / |\	   	       
      	         \|/		|______|__(o/--/  | \	   	       
      | |        00	       <|  ~~~  ____ 04 ---- | --------------------
    |_|_|        (O>o		|\)____/___|\_____|_/	   Adios amigos, Al
      |     \__(O_\_	        |	  |___/	 o	   (The Desert Rat)

    Ah yes, Fighter Squadron. I was in grade school when this was first
    released and can remember foaming at the mouth describing it to
    my little friends.
    Of course in those days you could still occasionally see an actual
    p-47 in the air, or better yet, dozens of AANG Mustangs flying
    in formation right over my house, or feel the unmistakeable
    in-the-gut rumble of a B-36 as it let down into the Davis-Monthan
    pattern, or, or, pant, pant...
    
    Actually F.S. shows up on cable quite regularly, so if you watch
    T.V Guide faithfully you should have a chance to tape it later.
    
    Terry

    
    
          I heard an advertisement for the Discovery channel on the radio
      today. There will be a NEW episode of "Wings" this Saturday night.
      This episode will be on the "Skyraider".

They played that one up here last week.  It is very good for
anybody who's a Skyraider nut.  Lots of marking documentation,
especially neat to see the oil streaks along the side of the
combat planes.

    In the extremely unlikely event that some (U.S. only, sorry) noter
    hasn't discovered the new "First Flights" series on A&E, check it
    out.
    Each week they cover some aviation period/plane. First they show
    vintage footage, then travel to a contemporary museum and film a
    restored example(s) in flight.
    Spent several weeks, of programs, at Rhinebeck.
    
    Last few have featured a beautiful Waco bipe, and a restored P-40N
    both in Cal., with flight shots over the mtns.
    
    Chuck Yeager would have been a better choice than Neal Armstrong
    for host, IMHO, but I suspect Yeager works for bigger bucks.
    
    Terry

The Discovery Channel is going to have a Wings Marathon on New Years Day.

I'll have my VCR running!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    I get the Discovery Channels magazine and could plug in the schedule
    if people are curious?
    
    Cheers
    Bob   in Pho

    Yes. I'd like to know the show times for some of the WWII German
    planes. Thanks.
    
    Terry

    OK , here it is folks. all times are eastern/pacific 
    
    
    Jan 1 1992
    10:00am/7:00am	Boeing b-17 Flying fortress
    11:00am/8:00am      Lookheed P-38 lightning 
    12:00noon/9:00am    Boeing B29 Superfortress  
    1:00pm/10:00am	P-51 Mustang 
    2:00pm/11:00am	Vought corsair f-4u
    3:00pm/noon		North american f-86 Sabre
    4:00pm/1:00pm	Boeing B52 Stratofortress
    5:00pm/2:00pm	F-4 PhantomII
    6:00pm/3:00pm	Lookheed Sr-71 Blackbird
    7:30pm/4:30pm       choppers -The Gulf 1/2hr
    8:00pm/5:00pm       The wing will fly(history of flying Northrop wing)
    10:00pm/7:00pm      U.S Airpower
    11:00pm/8:00pm      Future Combat Aircraft
    
    Thats it for the Marithon , next note on other intresting topics.
    
    Good watching , and Happy Holidays to yours, form mine!!!
    
    Bob in Pho

    Ok Now for some more goodies.
    
    The schedule looks like this.
    
    mondays 10:00pm/8:00pm Carriers series 
    tuesday 11:00pm/8:00pm Wings episode repeatSat 9:00pm/6:00pm 
    wedensday 9:00pm/6:00pm wings episode repeat sunday 11:00pm/8:00pm
    Repeats are not always there!!!
    
    Ok now the nitty gritty ,
    
    Jan 13
    11:00pm/8:00pm Carriers -rehearsal for war
    
    Jan 14 
    11:00pm/8:00pm Wing -The west's land based Fighters&Bombers
    
    Jan 15
    9:00pm/6:00pm Wings- The flying pancakes/repeat jan19 11:00pm/8:00pm
    10:00pm/7:00pm  Wings over the gulf-in harms way
    
    Jan 16
    10:00pm/7:00pm Wings over the gulf -The final assault
    
    Jan18
    11:00pm/8:00pm World of Valor-israeli defense forces/repeat 19th 5:pm/2
    11:30pm/8:30pm Firepower- Clash of armor/repeat 19th 5:30pm/2:30pm
    
    Jan 20th
    11:00pm/8:00pm carriers -Coral Sea Holding the line
    
    Jan 21
    11:00pm/8:00pm Wings- WEst't combat heli/repeat 25th 9:00pm/6:00pm
    
    Jan 22
    9:00pm/6:00pm Wings-The pushers /repeat 26th 11:00pm/8:00pm
    
    Jan 27
    11:00pm/8:00pm Carriers- Midway - The tide turns
    
    Jan 28th
    11:00pm/8:00pm Wings- F-4 PhantomII/repeat feb1 9:00pm/6:00pm
    
    Jan 29th
    9:00pm/6:00pm Wings-Catapults/repeat feb 2 11:00pm/8:00pm
    
     Good Watching, Now Back to work !
    
    Bob in Pho

    Re last 2
    	Any chance of borrowing VHS or Beta tape of these shows? I don't
    get them up here.
    
    Thanks, Pat

    Did anyone catch the 'Equinox' program on the Discovery channel last
    night?
    
    A very good program on soaring. First we fly in the south of England
    with Derek Piggot in an ASW-22, plus winsome passenger, then with
    John Jefferies in an ASW-25, 60:1 L/D !
    
    Then it's off to the Wasserkuppe museum, then down the hill to 
    Popenhausen and the Schleicher factory where we watch them build
    an ASW-25.
    
    The parallels with model construction was amazing, not surprising since
    that was the source of the techniques.
    The female molds for the wing skins were awesome. It's easy to see why
    it takes Fisher 500+ hours to make the Omega molds.
    
    Carbon fiber in half meter wide strips, unrolled in 10 meter lengths,
    enough Kevlar cloth to cloth an army of Roseanne Barrs, literally
    buckets of epoxy slapped on with wide brushes, 10 meter vacuum bags
    with hose fittings just like the ones ASC sells except 3X the size.
    
    They showed how they built a C/F spar, I beam cross section. No
    molds necessary, just C clamps and long pieces of 2 X 4s, or their
    metric equivalent. The technique could be adapted to models, but I
    didn't catch how they kept it straight while laying it up.
    
    By this time I was foaming at the mouth and ready to rush off to the
    bench and build something, anything.
    
    But wait ! Then it's off to the first test flight of the proto ASW-24.
    Followed by a pilots report, then it's back to England for some
    aerobatics with Piggot while his passenger gasps fetchingly.
    
    Naturally I didn't have a blank tape for the VCR but will watch for the
    repeat.
    
    Don't miss this one.
    
    Terry

I watched a repeat of this program sunday at 3pm (since I was rained out of my 
other activities) The full-scale building was really awesome and watching them
unroll yards and yards of fiberglass and kevlar was mindboggling. The process
really wasn't that different from what people are doing in models these days
but the scale of the effort was incredible. My wife watched with me and said 
that I'd never get it out of the basement... sounds like a challenge to me. The
flying sequences were well narrated by the pilot and showed the beauty of the
sport. It all translates well back to our models

Rats!  I missed it.  Did anyone get it on tape?  Or know when it's going
to be on again?  I'd really like to see it...

                            - Dan

>                          <<< Note 680.129 by RGB::MINER "Dan Miner, DTN:225-4015, HLO2-1/J12 (@ H11)" >>>
>
>Rats!  I missed it.  Did anyone get it on tape?  Or know when it's going
>to be on again?  I'd really like to see it...
>
>                            - Dan

Me too - darn darn darn.

Please post any additional info.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

The show was called Equinox and was on last thursday night and sunday afternoon
on The Discovery Channel (TDC). I looked it up in my May cable guide and they 
just listed those two shows. It might be on in June again. Yes, I taped it and 
will make it available locally. This tape has my Alcyone maiden flight on it
along with other stuff so I don't want it going too far. Dan's going to grab it 
at the Gremlin contest on saturday.

Starting tonight on the Discovery Channel at 9:00 (I think - maybe 8:00)

Wings of the Red Star

Looks to be a interesting series about Russian Planes.

I can't wait!

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

Aerobatics:  The Oshkosh Fly-In Competition.
ESN Thursday 14-Oct-1993 

I forgot to write down the time but I think it was
about 9:00 PM

Found this in the latest TV guide.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
---------------O---------------
################################################################################

    Kay, I'd like to see this. Please post a reminder when next week
    rolls around.
    
    
    Steve