Conference rdvax::grateful

	welcome Brian!

	there has been a little discussion of DP4 in note 371 starting
	around reply 99 or so...

	when you do get it, let us know what you think...I'm waiting
	to pay off my credit card before I order it :-(

	Debess

    Thanks, I jsut looked over the comments...can't wait to 
    get it.
    
    --Brian
    

	I was sitting out in the sun on my deck, when Lara brought in the
	mail - got DPIV - sat there and opened it and first thing looked
	to see if there was a picture - shore 'nuf!  Now...I know I must
	finally be getting beyond mourning (so much) for Jerry...when I 
	looked at the picture, my eyes focussed in on -young- Bobby ;-)...
	and then to (also young) Jerry when Lara asked "is that Jerry?" - 
	guess she didn't recognize him with black hair!

	Debess

	the Dark Star on this CD is -superb-, just superb!
	
	whenever I listen to these early Dead showz, after having read
	Scully's book, and hear Weir's sublime and wonderful accompaniment
	to Jerry's soaring guitar lines and Phil's booming bass tunes,
	I wonder - what the f*** was he talking about - the "Bobby problem" -
	he kept talking about it over and over and over in the book and
	he was with them till '85 - I don't know maybe I don't have the
	right (wrong) tapes but I just don't know where he's coming from.

	and speaking of Bobby and Dick's Picks IV, I think he should start 
	singing "Dancing in the Streets" again this summer - a great cover 
	tune and fun, fun, fun to dance to - bring out the electric guitar!

	Debess

    re: the bobby problem...
    
    the way i understand it, and i haven't read the book so this is from
    other (probably wrong) sources, is that Jerry and just about everyone else
    wanted to do more spacy stuff...like the extended dark stars. Bobby,
    and Pig to a certain extent, wanted to stick to traditional tunes,
    mostly cowboy then (bob ala Kristoferson) and blues (pig).....
                                   ?
    rfb

	since I can't comment on the-artist-formally-known-as-Prince,
	or Black Sabbath, I come back to this note ;-)

	...yehbut, so if Bobby wasn't into exploring space initially,
	he sure got into it pretty quickly thereafter, that's fersure.
	I know you said you didn't read the book, rfb, but the way
	Scully lays it out, Bobby was a no-talent, and he didn't say
	it just once about a certain year, he -kept- saying it, like "we
	still had the Bobby problem"...what -year- is he talking about?
	It bugged me when I read it, and like I said, whenever I listen
	to these snappling shows, it bugs me again ;-)

	and about Pig - I've wondered sometimes myself that as they -did-
	get into the psychelic jams as opposed to a blues backup band, he
	more and more seemed to be out of his element.  What would have
	happened had he lived?  Would he have just had a role similar to
	Donna - strolling out to sing and then strolling backstage - cause
	obviously the rest of the band weren't going to be content playing
	the blues - or would he have eventually gone out on his own?

	It's hard to say - they loved him so much...

	Debess

>	and about Pig - I've wondered sometimes myself that as they -did-
>	get into the psychelic jams as opposed to a blues backup band, he
>	more and more seemed to be out of his element.  What would have
>	happened had he lived?

  I haven't read as much history as many DEChead noters, but just from
  listening to shows...
  
  I think as the band got further into Jerry & Phil's conception of space,
  the truth is, they outgrew Pigpen.  (It didn't help that Pig's voice
  started to wear down as well, as their styles were diverging...  JMO, from
  comparing Lovelights over 5 or so years.)  I think they woulda let him
  stay and do his feature pieces as long as he wanted, but that he woulda
  eventually opted out.

  I also believe Pigpen's showmanship, early on, helped carry the band (esp.
  with live audiences) for a while -- got the others through the early time
  when they were finding their feet with the Jerry/Phil approach.
  
  If I'm not too far off, it shapes up as a real bittersweet thing -- the
  guy carries you, buys you time while you find your feet; as a result of
  which you outgrow him and (musically) leave him behind.  Kind of like what
  a parent or mentor does.  No wonder they love him so much.  - JayC.

Jay's account works well with much of what i'd heard/read...

Pig loved music and the blues in particular...  early on he was a 
driving force and played a major role, but that changed more and
more...  

it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, but i don't know which came first,
Jer/Phil spacy exploration or Pig's deteriorating health, which in turn 
brought about a lesser role for him...  hard telling...  if not for the alcohol
he may well have grown with the band, as Bobby did...

yep, they loved him...  for all the reasons mentioned before, and the fact 
that he was apparently just a great guy and a lot of fun (aka party animal)...
he and Janis were great friends and drinking buds too...  both were scared
of LSD and missed that trip though... part of why they hung together...

				da ve

				

    
    
    
    ".....but he was the leader of the band."
    
                                         -Bill Kreutzmann on Pig
    
    
                                            

    pig and janis being fearfull....
    
    that's cause they were dosed a bunch of times and prefered not to do it
    themselves...but by no means did they "miss it", unintentionally of
    course...plus Janis was already into smack....