Conference rdvax::grateful

    
    
    
    ooops!  do i see fuel for the next grate debate?????
    
    the subject???  cats...   best kept indoors or out???
    
    that's the focus of our next edition of GERALDO...  seen locally 
    in GRATEFUL... check your cable guide for times in your area...
    
    			:^) :^) :^)
    
    					da ve

	We had this Maine Coon cat when I was growing up.  For those of you 
who have never seen one of these beauties, the cat was very large -- easily
twice the size of Joe average cat -- and had beautiful markings much like
a bobcat.  No question, he was the "boss" of the neighborhood.  He wouldn't 
look for trouble, other cats would try to make trouble with him.  He sent 
many cats to the veternarian ... all part of the life & times of a cat I 
guess.

	He lived to be 17 years old.  He died a peaceful death .. just went to
sleep one day and never woke up.  I remember when it happened... I was a junior
in college.  It was like losing a brother...
	
	Great cat... when my parents got it, I think it was for free.  Now
people breed these cats and sell them for $300+ ...

Nope, cats don't need to be outside.  We have seven cats that are happy and
healthy indoors.  Putting a cat outside is usually signing its death warrant
... if they don't get hit by a car, they pick up some disease.

A study by Cats magazine stated that indoor cats live to be an average of 
12 years, while outdoor cats live to be an average of 3 years.

- Dave

    My cat got hit by a car almost two years ago - and survived!   It was
    awful, 'cuz I saw him across the street (lived in res. neighborhood),
    and opened the front door to call him - as soon as I did, he looked up,
    saw me, and came runnin - and then I heard the car...  I can still see
    the little guy bounce along the road after getting hit..   but he's a
    survivor...  little arthritic hip, now, poor guy...
    
    Problem is, he's been an outdoor cat all his life, and now I moved to
    an apartment, and he's not terribly thrilled about being an inside cat.
    And Dave, I guess I'll have to disagree with you on inside/outside...
    The way I figure it, who are we thinking about when we keep a cat in -
    us or the cat?  I KNOW my cat loves it outside, and I left him out for
    the entire weekend several times, because I know that even if he did 
    die because I wasn't around, at least he's living life the way he wants
    - outside - and it was really only for MY peace of mind, MY happiness,
    that I would keep him inside before when I went away..
    
    ML

Yeah, once cats get used to living outdoors, they generally aren't satisfied
with staying indoors.  I was talking about keeping cats indoors from the time
they're young.  Our cats have been indoors their entire lives, though we
take them outside for walks now and then ... they seem to be happy either
way.

Whatever ...

-dc

    My sister has three indoor cats, and I swear they're neurotic.  I'm of
    the opinion that it's against the nature of (most) cats to keep them
    cooped up in a house all the time.  They get bored, and can't exercise
    their hunting instincts (or even their muscles) properly.  Sure, if
    they don't know what they're missing they'll (probably) be happy.  But
    my attitude is that if you can't provide an animal with the proper
    environment to let it live life according to its nature, you're better
    off not offering the animal a place to live (which is why I don't have
    any pets at the present time).
    
    How would you like it if somebody decided it was in your best interest
    to spend your entire life inside a house?  After all, you'd be less
    prone to disease and accidents if you never went outdoors.  You'd
    probably live longer.  And you'd be perfectly happy ... or would you?
    
    ... Bob
    

    Sorry to hear  'bout your mishap Chris. Hope the kids get over
    it ok. As far as whether cats should be in or out is a difficult
    topic for me as I've had two cats and wanted them both to be indoors
    and out of harms way but while one of them was quite content being
    inside his brother definatly behaved himself into being an outside
    cat as he wouldn't have anything to do with using a litter box on a
    regular basis. And after I gave him the boot outdoors he loved it!
    He grew to a monstrous size and would now come running to see me when
    I arrived home. But he never developed a street sense and I ended up
    backing over him in my driveway :^(  So I'd have to say it depends
    on the cat itself. I guess if they are miserable inside it would be 
    better for them to at least have a chance of being happy outside even
    though the odds are against them.
    
    peace,Andy

    We had a cat that lived to be 16, and she spent the majority of her
    time outside (she came home at night to eat/sleep, then out during the
    day). My cat also spends most of his time outside. After living with
    people with 3 cats who never went out, I find my cat is healthier and
    even has no problems with fleas (unlike the inside cats). If he were to
    die as a result of being outside, I would be upset, but at least he was
    allowed to do what he wanted to do.
    
    I'm about to move, probably to a more populated area so I hope he'll
    still be able to go outside. Since it may be a condo complex, he might
    have trouble identifying his house. How smart are cats?
    
    Scott
    

Scott, I've had cats in large apartment complexes and they always managed to 
find their home...you might want to leave it in for a couple of days so it gets
used to smells and stuff.  But after that it should be OK.



I too like to think that cats like being outside to do all the stuff that cats
like to do.  But the thought of them getting hit by a car, grabbed by some 
cat disliking people, or attacked by another animal kinda freaks me out.  


Besides, dc's cats seem very well adjusted :^)




Jim

I think this cat thing is all relative to where cats are ...  where dc lives
is without a doubt to dangerous a spot for cats to go outdoors however where 
I live it is perfect for them to roam around and collect things all day/night.

Personally I think cats should be allowed to roam outside which is why I 
purposely looked for a rural spot when I last moved.  It probably has everything
to do with the fact that I myself am an outdoors person and hate being inside
myself - especially on a sunny day!  I am sure cats can be happy inside but
I doubt my cats would be, simply because I wouldn't be happy about keeping them
in.

It's really a judgement call of the owners.  Bbb you may think being confined
indoors is not a life for a cat but without that indoor dwelling many of these
cats may not have a life at all thanks to the pet overpopulation problem in
this country.  If I were a cat I'd take an indoor dwelling on a busy street
over an appointment to be euthanised anyday!

Who wants to start a PETS note?  Maybe we can use one of the 'reserved' topics. 
I don't have a cat anymore, but there's a cat on my street that I'd like to
talk about.  But not here, we're getting into a rathole.

adam_cat_lover

	I have a couple of cats, one of which is gonna be 10 years old
	this November and another which is 4.    When we got the first
	one, it was an indoor cat because we lived on a busy corner apt.   
	My previous 2 cats while at college in Worcester were both killed - 
	one by poison or illness, that was Casey, and the other, PigPen, 
	when he ran out of my car on Main St and was nailed in front of me :-( 
	Moral is don't take your pets for rides to the packy!

	Once Bertha (the older one) got a taste of the outdoors when we
	moved, she always wanted out, couldn't blame her.  So if you want
	an indoor cat never let it out!  Or else they'll taste the outdoors
	and want more.   She was missing once for 4 1/2 days, and we thought 
	she was done for, but returned in the middle of the night with a badly 
	abscessed leg from a bite we assume.  We were so psyched!  THen she
	got locked in the basement of the house next door, thought she was 
	done then too, and on the 5th day Me + Mindy heard a cry, and we knew
	it was her.  Got the neighbors of the apt bldg to open the basement
	and there she was, hungry and dehydrated but otherwise OK.   2 lives
	down 7 to go ;-)

	One thing about cats, we'll never have just 1.  Bertha was so lethargic
	until we got Zippy, a triple pawed maniac, gorgeous calico.  That cat
	is an outdoor freak, and living with 100's of acres around us makes
	it cat heaven (no comments Jim H ;-). 

	How smart are cats ?  I think they're really smart and very instinctive.
	I don't know where Bertha was when she got bit and was missing, we 
	practically *everywhere* for her, but she made her way back.

	A friend of mine adopted a cat while living in Worcester, and eventually
	his mother fell in love with it so that cat lived in Holyoke.  The cat
	ran away after she got it, and they found it had crossed the CT River
	(it was winter) and was on a direct line to Worcester.  I don't think
	an apt complex will be much of a problem...

	Ken

    while some people might claim that cats themselves are a bummer,
    (i would NEVER do such a thing of course! :^), i have to agree with 
    Adam...  we are turning this into a cat note instead of a bummer
    note...
    
    				da ve_who's_being_a_bummer_to_digressors!
    
    						:^)

    I had to laugh at da ve's note...  He knows that though I am usually
    pretty quiet in here, I'm still lurking about!  He also knows my strong
    feelings on the in/outdoor cat debate!  I'll try not to get too carried
    away, but here are a couple of my thoughts:
    
    If you kept your children indoors all the time, they would probably be
    safer.  They would also probably be removed from your custody for
    neglect!  How can it be different for an animal?
    
    I've also heard the in/outdoor cat lifespan statistics before...
    I think you have to look beneath the surface on that one...  The indoor
    cats are MOST ALL loved and cared for cats.  Otherwise they probably
    wouldn't be indoors.  The outdoor cats used in the statistics includes
    ALL OTHER CATS.  Meaning that MANY outdoor cats are strays, abandoned,
    and otherwise uncared for cats.  These cats ARE likely to have
    diseases, are prone to the elements, and so on...  MANY of these cats
    don't make it past kittenhood, thus bringing the statistics on outdoor
    cats way down.  BUT some of those outdoor cats ARE loved and cared for
    and live LONG past the 3 year statistic...  I think there should be
    2 separate outdoor cat statistics; the strays having their own
    category.  I had 2 cats that were allowed outdoors when I was growing up.  
    Jinx lived until the age of 17 and died of natural causes.  Napolean 
    died at the age of 15 and had been shot in the eye by a real jerk with 
    a BB gun.  He was pretty old and didn't take very good care of himself 
    anymore so my parents had him put to sleep.  He was still on the prowl 
    most of the time until then...  I will say that my parents standards 
    for taking care of cats are not up to mine...
    
    I have 2 cats.  I prefer to call them indoor/outdoor cats as they are
    allowed to come and go as they please.  The only exceptions to this
    are when I am going to be out of town for a couple of days, or when
    the weather isn't good.  Usually in the winter, Tiggy won't go outside
    anyway.  I have actually gotten up in the middle of the night to let 
    them in or out.  Sometimes more than once in a night!  I just can't let
    them howl outside and wake the neighbors up!  And I can't see letting
    them howl inside and keeping me and my roommate awake!  They have been
    better about this lately though... :-)
    
    My cats are extremely healthy, beautiful and have all their shots
    (distemper, rabies and leukemia).  Both have been fixed.  Tiggy is 7+ 
    now and Alpo (da ve named him, I didn't! ;-) ) is 3+.  I have always
    tried to find places to live that were appropriate for them.  I do have 
    nightmares of them getting hit or abused by some cruel person, but 
    I don't figure my worrying about them gives me a right to keep them 
    indoors... 
    
    And besides, it gives me practice worrying for if I become a parent!
    ;-)
    
    Lesa

    
    he he he...
    
    i was wondering when you were going to find this! :^)
    
    and i STILL think ALPO is a GRATE name for a cat!
    
    				da ve

 When I was wee lad of 5 years of age, my family had a cat that
spent alot of time outdoors. One night we had spinach for dinner
and after dinner my mother saw what she thought was a spinach leaf
on the floor. Much to her suprise when she picked it up she found out
it was really a mouse that Smokey (the cat) had brought home from his 
foraging. We never had spinach again. To most kids this would have
been great but I LIKE spinach DAMMIT. (I hate brussel sprout thou 8-)
Smokey lived to be 18 years of age. My parents were going to put him to sleep
when he was 17 because he was very arthritic, and had no bladder control
at all. Plus he seem to be very depressed, if thats possible in a cat.
IMO he was suffering for him to move was quite a project. NEways 
or nieghbors, who had about 12 cats said they would take him because
they couldn't bear to see any animal put to sleep. I have also felt
upset with them for making Smokey live that extra year because all
the other cats preyed on his weaknesses. I was very relived when 
he finally died. It was a horrible sight to see the younger cats tearing
him up, when he was so defenseless.

 Now I have two cats, and a dog. Since this is the cat note I'll discuss
the cats. The first cat my wife and I got was to get rid of the mice
in the apt. we were living in. One day my uncle called to say he had
found a cat and he knew we were looking for one. At the time my unc was towing
for the town of Saugus. There was an accident one day, one of the cars had a
load of cats they were getting rid of, when the accident occured all the cats
scattered. The police rounded up all but one. Two days later my unc went 
down to the police yard to get a car out. He heard a cat crying. He lifted
a hood and there was a cat trapped between the engine and firewall.

 So we cleaned him, named him Tigger, then got another one later, called him
Max. Tigger got pi$$ed at us for this new addition. Then along came
my son. Tigger got really pi$$ed this time. I think I didn't see him for
a week, (and he's and indoor cat). Then when we got the dog, well now 
I only see Tigger at feeding time.

Shawn

    ALPO...Oh I get it !!!! Dog Food.............rilly funny Da ve :')

    I used to have two cats.  The older of the two was a beautiful female
    calico named Sh!thead.  She was an ornery cat, and was fond of tearing
    up curtains, furniture, speaker grills, etc.  She could be loving and
    friendly, but only on her terms.  She got her name because it seemed to
    be what I called her most of the time anyway.  The younger was a male
    longhair tiger cat named Pigpen.  He was the most agreeable cat I've
    ever known, but he seemed to have a problem keeping himself clean.  I
    could spend an hour brushing his fur and making him look like a money
    cat, and as soon as I let him out he'd head for the nearest puddle or
    garbage can and come out looking abused.  I finally figured out it was
    because there were several older couples in the neighborhood who musta
    assumed that since he looked so skanky he must be a stray, and so they
    were feeding him.  Damn cat probably ate a dozen meals a day ... but he
    always came home at dinnertime anyway.
    
    When I moved away I had to find homes for them, 'cause I didn't know
    where I was going and couldn't take them with me.  Both cats ended up
    with neighbors who knew them because they were always cruisin' the
    neighborhood anyway.  Sh!thead moved in with a family who fed her tuna
    fish instead of Nine Lives.  It was funny that her personality mellowed
    with the companionship of children.  Pigpen moved in with an elderly
    couple who were fond of feeding and brushing him anyway.  I guess being
    outdoor cats had it's advantages in that both cats seemed to have found
    surrogate homes of their own choosing by the time we had to part
    company.
    
    ... Bob
    

I had a black cat named Uhura (guess why?) that moved with me from my single
days to my married days through 4 homes in Calif, one in Colorado, 1 in Arizona
2 more in Colorado and 2 in New England..she was a great cat..never liked my
ex, always slept on my side of the bed, sat on the floor next to me when I 
ate, followed me when ever I walked around outside..she lived for about 14 years
and I still miss her :^(




Jim who would like to have a cat in his apt but can't

re: Note 191.19 BOOKS::BAILEYB "Let my inspiration flow ..."         

>     be what I called her most of the time anyway.  The younger was a male
>     longhair tiger cat named Pigpen.  He was the most agreeable cat I've
>     ever known, but he seemed to have a problem keeping himself clean.  I

Hey, the cat I had named PigPen was an orange male tiger too!  Shorthair 
though.  He'd go out and raise hell for a few days, in the city!, and 
come home with a chunk of ear missing, sleep for 2 days straight, then
repeat the above.

Born to be wild I guess...

Ken

	cats are definitly smart animals, and mine are my buddies!
	I think I'll go right home right now and hug and kiss the kids!
       

My two kids are females, Nissa and Teagan. Both are indoor cats because of 
where I live. Right now I live near a very busy intersection. Even if I lived 
out somewhere where they could run I'm not sure I'd let them out. Between the 
coyotes and the mountain lions a house cat does not stand much of a chance. 
Lately the moutain lions have been taking german shepards and labs out of their
back yards around here. Also a friend of mine, who had a cat named Snickers,
suspects coyotes in the kitties recent disappearance.

Both my girls seem very well adjusted they'll take pets from ANYONE and 
are very insistent about when it's time to play or for lovin. Both of them are
best buddies and have a great time 'hunting' each other and generally having 
a good time. Of course they also spend a lot of time snoozing in a shared
sun beam. They're grate companions, they give so much love and expect so 
little!

:-Chuck

    Lions tigers and bears OH MY !!!!
    
    I don't think I'd go out in your neck of the woods, Chuck !
    
    
    yikes !
    
    Chris

	
	when I was a kid, my father was allergic to feathers and fur
	and consequently I never had any pets while I was growing up.

	now I have two kitties...the oldest one, my favorite, is now
	SIXTEEN years old! (and he's an outdoor cat)...I can't believe
	he's that old, but he is...since I never had a cat get this 
	old before, I was wondering, how much longer could I possibly
	expect him to live for...

	Debess

    My cat has always been able to come and go as he pleased.  Both he
    and the dog are free to roam the neighborhood.  In fact we kick the
    cat out of the house at night.  We don't live on a busy road though.
    
    Heidi

boy a topic like "cats", certainly brings some of us quiet noters
out of the woodwork ;')  This is soooo timely... our 10-year old tiger
(even neutered) just came back beaten up (again), after a night on the town.
He looks sooo pitiful!

We were really careful about not letting him out at night, back in
our old house - it was in the middle of the woods, and there were lots
of BIGGER critters than Gus out there.  I was hoping that we'd left
the racoons, etc. behind!  Actually I think there's just wild cats
in our neighborhood.  New rule:  Kitty stays  in at night now.

I don't think there's a right or wrong to this issue.  I like seeing
my cat enjoy the outside.  He'd be so bored if he just stayed in the house
alone.  Luckily he stays far away from moving cars.  It is tough dealing
with the presents he brings sometimes (esp. when they're not dead ;'( yet)

Rachel

    I have mostly been a silent noter until now ( only wrote one other
    time).  But my cats have been such a major part of my life, I wanted to
    be part of this.
    
    I had my first cat, KC(short for kitty cat, named by my then 7 year old
    son) 17 years.  She was an outdoor cat all her life.  At 17 she was
    obviously a senior citizen, but I didn't have the heart to deprive her
    of the outdoors which she loved so well.  She was killed by the dog
    next door. I miss her still, she was cute, affectionate, funny and
    brought much joy to our lives.
    
    About three weeks after KC was killed, last summer, Ted drifted in to
    our lives.  He's a 17.5 lb Maine Coon.  He spent most of his time at my
    house after his family moved into our neighborhood.  I offered to buy
    him, but his owner said that she had three other cats and that Ted was
    obviously happier at my house.  She hadn't seen him for three weeks. 
    Ted had stayed exclusively outside at that time since I knew he had
    a home.  He hardly went out the first few weeks he was mine.  Now he's
    out about as much as he's in.  
    
    Ted was born to be an only cat.  He demands a lot of attention, which
    we love to give him.  My husband is as crazy about this cat as I am. 
    He still goes to visit his old home on occasion.  I have also seen the
    other cats he used to live with visit him in our yard.
    
    For my own peace of mind I would probably enjoy having an indoor cat. 
    But I can't interfere with with another being's right to choose his or
    her own lifestyle.
    
    

    Cat #1	Don't remember its name, it followed me home and was
    		killed by a german shepard that night.
    
    Cat #2	Isha, put down due to chronic health problems.
    
    Cat #3	Pogo, from a long line of Pogos.  Suffered the same fate as
    		Isha.
    
    Cat #4	Smitty, now in his 12th year and living comfortably at
    		my parents.  Survived a dunking in oil.
    
    Cat #5	KC, named by my sister for the same reason as .-1.  Missing
    		and presumed dead.
    
    Cat #6	Satan, my stepbrother's cat.  MAPD.  Both KC and Satan
    		were black cats, leading the local police chief, fresh
    		from a seminar, to suspect the involvement of satanic
    		cults in their deaths.  Like the Northeast Kingdom is
    		a real hotbed of cult activity (just the Island Pond
    		Church, which recruits at Dead shows).
    
    Dog #1	Jessie, my stepfather's dog, a Chesapeake Bay Setter.
    		Jessie had her back broken when another setter, Bear,
    		jumped on her.  A rifle dispatched Bear and Jessie's
    		arthritis and displaysia got so bad that we had her
    		put down last winter.
    
    Cat #7	Fred, still a kitten and living with Mom.
    
    
    All were outdoor animals, as am I.
    
    Jamie

When I was living in NYC, I had a female cat, Smokey (I can't take credit for
naming her, unfortunately).  I found her in the bushes in front of my apartment
building (4th floor out of 6).  I took my jacket off, put her in it, and
brought her up to my house.  I begged my parents to let me keep her, and they
agreed, pending a report of good health from the vet.  She was a tiny furball
when I got her, and from the time I picked her up to the time I gave her away,
she was never outside.  Being outside in my neighborhood would have meant
almost certain death by tire tread or freezing weather, and besides, we were
way up in an apt building.  I did give her a modicum of exercise by taking her
out into the hallway of the building and chasing her up and down the hallway. 
I used to laugh seeing her try to stop in her tracks by back-pedalling
(back-pawing?), and skidding down the slippery surface of the hallway.  When we
moved, I gave her to a relative in Des Moines, Iowa, who had a house in the
woods.  She then became an outdoor cat.  She was about 4-5 years old by this
time.  I don't know if it was her inexperience at being outdoors, but she died
a year or two later.

I found out a few years later that I'm allergic to cats (and most types of
fur).  I bet if I had still had Smokey I wouldn't be allergic.  I'm not as
strongly affected as I used to be, but even now if I pet a cat and rub my eyes
I'm bummin for an hour or two (wicked itch).

Now that I live in a house on a quiet residential street, there's a
neighborhood cat that comes around at least once a day.  We let it in and it
hangs out, takes a nap, eats if we feed it, and gets scratched.  We still don't
know who owns it.  It has bells around its neck, which may or may not mean it
has an owner.  I wonder what its name is?

adam

The mountain lions are mostly in the southern part of Colorado Springs. 
You can see coyotes in just about any part of the city. This spring there
was a mother fox and a whole den of kits setup under the access road to the
public golf course in teh middle of the city. 

I should mention the 'lion problem' is mostly due to the city sprawling and
people moving in to lion country. I suppose if I were a l lion and someone 
moved on to my turf and was nice enough to leave me an easy supper tied to 
the back porch, I'd take them up on the offer. ;-)

:-Chuck 

Well, I guess I'm kinda in the minority here.  That's cool; I'm used to it. ;^)
Just one comment re "can't interfere with with another being's right to choose
his or her own lifestyle" ... I think we already have.  We've built roads with
fast moving, large blind objects running on them ... we've put toxins into
the environment ... certain members of our species enjoy causing pain to other
species for enjoyment.  It's not really their world anymore.

If I had to choose between staying inside my entire life, and going outside
with a possibility of getting randomly smashed (and maybe not instantly dying)
by large objects zooming out of nowhere, etc., I might choose to stay inside.
But that's me.  ;^)

- Dave

    ::, you wimp :-)
    
    Well, my cat saga continues...  I moved one month ago into the 3rd
    floor of an apartment building, and my exclusively outdoor cat stayed
    in all month, except for one brief 5 minute period when I brought him
    outside when he started acting up.  
    
    Well, this morning he was TEARING around the apartment, clawing at the
    furniture, meowing, running in front of me - obvious signs that he
    wanted to go out...  So I opened the door, and he took a good 5 minutes
    sniffing out the place, but he went down stairs, and when I opened the
    door, he cautiously stepped outside.  I sat and watched him for about 5
    minutes, then went upstairs to get ready for work.  About 10 minutes
    later, I heard him meow, so I went downstairs, opened the door, and he
    came tearing in...  But he didn't go upstairs, just washed himself, and
    when I opened the door again, he shot outside, across the small parking
    lot and into the expansive woods behind the apartment building...
    
    So, he has now become an outdoor cat again :-)   I'll be checking on
    him at lunchtime (one of the bennies of living 2 miles from work :-),
    and I'll be back with live updates, as it happens... :-)
    
    ML 

    I forgot to mention one important aspect of Ted's personality.  He's a
    deadhead.  Whenever I'm listening to the Dead if Ted is in the house he
    comes into the living room, where the stereo is, stretches out on his
    favorite piece of furniture for that day and enjoys the tunes!

Re Ken a few back

I've always been kinda scared of the kids running out of the car which is why
they travel in cat boxes.  They even get belted in (well, after the time when
Bonzo_in_the_box went tumbling onto the floor upside down ;^( ).  They travel
to/fro NY with me alot ... and they really don't mind it that much.  Except
for when they have to go to the bathroom, then they complain!  So what does
brains (me) do ... I buy leashes for them and expect that I can get off at a
rest stop put them on thier respective leashes and they'll pee or whatever.
This is what happens ....  Bonzo thinks this is the neatest thing and just 
walks around the rest area checking out the scene.  Pearl gets the beejeesus
scared out of her and manages to wiggle out of the leashe, collar and all.
So here I am - in Meriden CT at a rest area off I84 chasing my cat, panicked
that I am going to loose her or she is going to get hit or something.  As it
turns out I coaxed the furry little bowling ball with food and grabbed a hold
of her.  Neither one of them has been on a leashe since, they just have to
go before we hit the road now, or hold it in.

Lisa

re:     <<< Note 191.37 by LEDS::MRNGDU::YETTO "child of countless dreams" >>>

Yeah, after that incident, I bought a cat carrier.  It's much safer for them,
and the driver!   (Like they don't get in the way of the brake pedal, for 
example).  

My cats (and Lucy the dog) have me on their "good list" this week.  I've been
feeding them freshly grilled bluefish (I've had my fill) the last couple of
days.

Ken

	Fill of Bluefish??  Hmmn, I comin over tonight, OK!	:-)

re:     <<< Note 191.40 by LEDS::MRNGDU::YETTO "child of countless dreams" >>>

>	Fill of Bluefish??  Hmmn, I comin over tonight, OK!	:-)

	Sure, dinner is usually about 6:00 p.m.  Bring your little ones,
	and it's all you can eat (byob - bring your own bowl) ;-)

	I went out on a bluefishing trip friday nite, caught the most on
	the boat (about 20) plus the biggest fish on the boat (about 17 lbs)
	to win the pool.  Now that was a great time!

	Wierdest thing was seeing a *bright* yellow (from beak to tail) very 
	feathery small-medium sized bird hit the back of the boat and fall 
	into the water :-/  It was about 10 pm.   I've never seen that kind 
	before, and it's not in my Audobon book.  

	Any ideas ?  I hope it wasn't someone's pet ;-)

	Ken
	

>	Wierdest thing was seeing a *bright* yellow (from beak to tail) very 
>	feathery small-medium sized bird hit the back of the boat and fall 
	
  	  Gee, that sounds like tweety.  ;^(

	  Was there a fiesty old lady around chasing cats with brooms?  :-)

>>	Wierdest thing was seeing a *bright* yellow (from beak to tail) very 
>>	feathery small-medium sized bird hit the back of the boat and fall 
>	
>  	  Gee, that sounds like tweety.  ;^(

You know, it *looked* a LOT like tweety!  Rilly!

>	  Was there a fiesty old lady around chasing cats with brooms?  :-)

No, but I could have sworn I heard a little voice say 
	
		"I tot I thaw a putty cat"!

It turned around, and said "I did!!!!", then it hit the boat!

Ken ;-)

>>>	Wierdest thing was seeing a *bright* yellow (from beak to tail) very 
>>>	feathery small-medium sized bird hit the back of the boat and fall 


				

RE:          <<< Note 191.41 by FURTHR::HANNAN "Beyond description..." >>>
                                   -< Blues >-

>	Sure, dinner is usually about 6:00 p.m.  Bring your little ones,
>	and it's all you can eat (byob - bring your own bowl) ;-)
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ok ... sounds good to me!!!!

:-)  ...


			jc

    This isn't about cats, but I don't think it deserves a topic of its
    own.  It's about the most obnoxious animal I've ever had the misfortune
    to meet, a friend's dog.
    
    Admittedly, I'm more of a cat than a dog person.  I like dogs, but I
    don't want to own one.  You just can't take off for a week on a dog
    like you can with a cat.
    
    Anyway, back to the beast that's the subject of this note.  It's a
    miniature bulldog, ugly and dumb as a post.  Its only redeeming
    quality is that it doesn't bark.  It runs around, jumps and licks all
    over you, and isn't trained to "go" outside.  Nothing extraordinary
    there, but it has two habits that make it the very antithesis of a
    Deadhead pet.
    
    First, it eats tapes.  Rilly.  How would you like to find the remains
    of your coveted first show tape scattered throughout its droppings?  It
    didn't eat any of my tapes, but we were on guard.  Secondly, it loves
    beer.  It loves beer so much that if you set your beer down it will
    charge it, knock it over, and lap up the spillage.
    
    I've been around a lot of obnoxious pets in my life, but this one
    stands head and shoulders above the rest.  No mean feat for a lap dog.
    
    Jamie

There's no such thing as a bad/dumb/abnoxious dogs...  only bad/dumb/obnoxious
owners...  Dogs can be most rewarding and very well behaved given the
appropriate attention...   It really makes me sad to know people take ownership
of dogs and then spend no time with them..  and then the dogs ge blamed for
their behavior.. blah!~ 

Glenn_with_two_dogs_needing constant attention :^}

I think small dogs have "small dog complexes", just like some small people have 
small people complexes. One of the primary symptoms of this emotional disorder 
is obnoxiousness..


Its there own way of letting the world know "I may be small, but mess with me 
and I'll give ya a ration of kaka in return"...

    RE: "There's no such thing as a bad/dumb/obnoxious dog......"
    all breeds of dogs, esp. pure breeds, have been breed for
    specific reasons, in some breeds (like bulldogs) intelligence was NOT
    one of the reasons. I've raised the dumbest and the smartest dogs, 
    basset hounds and German sheps. and as of last weekend, now own one of
    each...Arthur (the basset) sure makes me appreciate Kady (the G. Shep)
    
    rfb

re:      <<< Note 191.48 by CSCMA::M_PECKAR "spinning that curious sense" >>>

> I think small dogs have "small dog complexes", just like some small people
> have  small people complexes. One of the primary symptoms of this emotional
> disorder  is obnoxiousness..

This may be true, but I know of one example (a certain member of this file)
where this theory fails.  I'm giving this person the benefit of the doubt. :-)
But I hear what you're saying.  There's nothing worse than a midget dog that
barks all day.

adam

Re:   <<< Note 191.54 by EZRIDR::SIEGEL "The revolution wil not be televised" >>>

> re:      <<< Note 191.48 by CSCMA::M_PECKAR "spinning that curious sense" >>>

>> I think small dogs have "small dog complexes", just like some small people
>> have  small people complexes. One of the primary symptoms of this emotional
>> disorder  is obnoxiousness..

>This may be true, but I know of one example (a certain member of this file)
>where this theory fails.  I'm giving this person the benefit of the doubt. :-)
>But I hear what you're saying.  There's nothing worse than a midget dog that
>barks all day.

	:-)  

	I think Adam said this because I threatened to kick him in
	the chins if he didn't.  :-) :-)


Re Jamie and the obnoxious dog from Hell ... 

	I heard this story yesterday ... maybe you should keep an empty
	(laundry) box in your basement.  :-)

    re .-1
    
    Oh yeah, it's come full circle back to obnoxious OVERFED cats.  They
    just better not venture too far onto 110 on car days . . .  :^)
    
    I really didn't mind the dog's poor bowel control in my basement, he
    couldn't have picked a better spot.  It was the tape eating and full-on
    head butting of beers that got to me.
    
    Jamie

re:   <<< Note 191.61 by LEDS::MRNGDU::YETTO "discover the wonders of nature" >>>


>	I think Adam said this because I threatened to kick him in
>	the chins if he didn't.  :-) :-)

    Hmm . . . Adam's putting on weight and Lisa's practicing her karate
    high kicks?!?
    
    Jamie
    

OK OK OK, so I was told at lunch that I spelt shins wrong!  Thanks Fog!  ;^)


Re Overfed cats:  no comment, scrooge!  :-)

    I've moved all the Comic Strip talk to a new note so please continue it
    there...thanks
    
    oh yeah...264.* is the note....
    
    Chris

Yeah, let's keep this topic dedicated to cat residences, PLEASE!

	;^)

- DC

    lest we end up in the dog house???  :^)
    
    					da ve

    he always houdnig us with puns, I wish he'd quit dogging it
    and put his paws into another note...
    							/
    

You guys are barking up the wrong tree!

If we don't stop these puns, Phyllis may start snarling at us...

We should probably put a leash on it...

:-)

Dave

    what can i say??  i'm just a sick puppy...
    
    				da ve

    
    Thats it da ve!!!!  In the kennel you go!!!!
    
    Hogan

    
    i have no choice, but to put my tail between my legs and submit to
    being smacked on the nose with a rolled up newspaper...  :^(
    
    					da ve

    
    I think there's too many daves in this file.
    
    ;-)
    
    

    Actually, there are three many daves in this file ... and da ve, I KNOW
    you didn't mean NEWSpaper ... ;^)
    
    ... Bobbb
    

    
    I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but here
    goes anyway...
    
    I have a stray kitty living under the stairs at my house
    who really needs a loving home....  from the size of her
    my guess is that she is about 8-10 months old.  She is 
    extremely affectionate and in need of lots of love.  She 
    is gray,brown and orange mix - very very cute!  If I had
    my way I would keep her - but since I already have 2 cats
    (who are not too keen on this new kitty setting up house
    under 'their' stairs!) it just isn't possible right now.
    
    If anyone would like a new addition to their family, or
    knows anyone who might, please please put them in contact
    with me!!!  I live in Lancaster and wouldn't mind delivering
    the kitty any reasonable distance.  I can be reached at
    (508)368-8160.  Thanks for any help you can lend!!!!
    
    MJ

	Okay, "hey you" is wearing thin, particularly since it's being applied
to both kittens.  Any suggestions for names?

	The kittens are male, one is black, the other is a grey tiger.  They're
ex-barn cats, so were really shy at first, but have been getting used to me,
though they still hide quite a bit.  They purr loudly, and are fairly
affectionate once they can't run away (which they aren't trying to do nearly as
often, now, anyway).  They're from the same litter.

Mark

    Rocky and Bullwinkle !
    
    look natisha its moose and squirrel !

    
    
    dave  (for both of course)  ;-)
    
    or Aiko and Aiko
    
    Ren & Stimpy
    
    Itchy & Scratchy
    
    George & Fred
    
    Kitty 1 & Kitty 2
    
    Fred & Barney
    
    Frick & Frack
    
    Peace & Love
    
    

    
    Go for the techno-geek angle, call them client and server. ;-)
    eegad, maybe I need a vacation. 
    
    :-Chuck

You should have a party, and hope the cats pick up names then... :-)

The gray tiger could be Touch of Gray...

How 'bout Lucky for the black one?

Dave

> Peace & Love

Then you'd need a 3rd to call Understanding!

:-)

Dave

Pair's are fun

	ODC:	Sampson & Delilah..

	Here's a most excellent suggestion:	Bill 'n' Ted...

    The colors sound similar to 2 old cats we had back in college,
      Tofu and Beancake
    
    
    PeterT
    

    Gengis Cat
    Rupert T. Mouseripper
    
    how about Reuben and Cherise? (is it one of each?)
    
    i used to say if i had twin daughters one would be Melody and the other 
    Harmony...  for kitties i guess those names could be gender nuetral...
    
    					da ve

	NO to the geek angle!  I thougt of (and rejected) IRP & XQP, primarily
because I couldn't pronounce XQP in a way that was distinct from spelling it.
At this point, I realised two things.  First, I need a vacation. :)  Second,
I would enter a note asking for suggestions of names.

Thanks, and keep them coming,
Mark

			How about Gweef and Snork?

Link and Compile?

Port and Debug?

Lisp and Apl?

Stack and Dump?

C and C++?

No More


New Notes






Jum

    
    
    Calvin & Hobbes
    
    Woodward & Bernstein
    
    Darryl & Darryl
    
    Mickey & Bill
    
    Drums & Space
    
    ???

    86 & 99
    Rosencrantz & Gildenstern
    Simon & Garfunkel
    Galahad & Merlin
    George & Ira (well, I know 2 cats named Gershwin and Sondheim)
    Jake & Elwood
    
    my personal favorite:
    Percy & Baldric (the bumbling assistants to Black Adder)
    

    
    
    Hantzel und Gretel
    
    Bill and Opus
    
    Dan and Dave :-0
    
    Linus and Lucy
    
    Bird and Magic
    
    Lenny and Squiggy!
    
    (okay, I'll stop..)
    
    

>>	The kittens are male, one is black, the other is a grey tiger.  They're


Ashes II, Ashes

    
    Oh I cant help myself...
    
    >>Ashes II, Ashes
    
    Dust II, Dust. 
    
    Sorry.
    
    :-Chuck

	Actually, Ash (or Ashes) would work for the grey.  I've found him in
the ash bucket by the woodstove a couple of times, and he sort of blends in.
He may get a surprise this winter, though, when the wood stove begins heating
the house again.  Dust wouldn't work for the black, though.  I'll have to
think on this one.

	Percy and Baldric also sounds promissing, as long as that doesn't
make me Edmund.

	I also though of Subterfuge and Deceit, but would then need a female to
name Miss Direction.

	Sigh, soon I'll make a final indecision.

Mark

	Jake and Elwood! 
	Jake and Elwood! 
	Jake and Elwood! 
	Jake and Elwood! 
	Jake and Elwood! 
	Jake and Elwood! 

	Would make great cat names!   People always get a kick out of
	Bertha, one of my cats ;-)

	Ken

You let people kick your cat???

;^)

Scott

    How about naming them after the two guys waiting for Godot?  Vladmir
    and Estragon or something like that. :)
    
    Rob
    

    gray and black, huh ... howzabout Gandalf and Sauron.
    
    ... Bobbb
    

Then again, there is always that ole standby them for names: body tubes...

:-)

    i let people kick my cats, whut's wrong wit dat???
                                                      rfb

    How about Ralph and Norton or Set I and Set II or Butch Cassidy and
    Sundance Kid?
    
    Rose
    

    I got it HEY & YOU :')
    
    hey didn't I leave already ?

RE:       <<< Note 191.111 by SALEM::MARKIEWICZ "enfant de l'Univers" >>>
                              -< Slash and Hack? >-

>   Set I and Set II

	I was thinking of First Set and Second Set.  But then you'd have 
	to get another cat and name it Encore.  And then another to name
	Warmup.  And then another to name Intermission....

	I have a friend who named his two cats Mudhead and Ethel.  Great
	names.

	And there's the cat I adopted a while ago.  His name is 
	Stesichorous.  Ste - zik - er- us.  Stinky for short :-)

	Bob

    When you said Ashes would work for the grey, but not dust for the
    black, I immedeately thought "Soot".

>    When you said Ashes would work for the grey, but not dust for the
>    black, I immedeately thought "Soot".

	I didn't!  I even spent some time trying to come up with this.  It was
right on the tip of my brain, even. :-)  On consideration, though, I couldn't
end up with names that alluded to their colours, as that would just be too
cute.

	At any rate, thanks for all the help, people!  I've gotten names picked
out, and the cats don't seem any more disinterested in them then in any of the
others. :)  While I ended up using names that haven't been suggested here, this
has been a great help in sorting it out, and will serve as a repository for
anyone in this predicament in the future, unless Lisa happens by. :)

	I thought of stars, and Castor and Pollux came to mind right away
(they're the twins, in Gemini).  Still, it's probably been done, so I thought
some more about star pairs, and came to Regulus and Denebola.  These are the
two brightest stars in Leo, so the cat angle comes back.  Regulus has the
greater magnitude, so the larger of the kittens (the black, but it's a risk
this may change), got that one, with the Grey being Denebola.

Thanks again for all the help,
Mark

    I'm late to the thread, as usual. The 2 I thought of were Flo & Eddie,
    but they were Turtles anyway :-)
    
    
    jeff

    Well, here's a cabin animal update:  
    
    The dog has a name:  Molly
    
    The psycokitty MJ unloaded on us (I am *NOT* kidding about the psycho
    part!!) Rob has deemed Tacoma or something equally stupid and cheesy -
    but he's the only one that damn cat seems to like anyways!  That thing
    is NASTY MJ!! It can't stand Molly or the other kitten we have!  It
    doesn't really like many people either.  That's okay she and Rob
    deserve each other!:-)  One of the first days she was at the Cabin I
    awoke to find the cat sitting *IN* Alex's cage staring at Alex who
    was on the windowsill - outside of the cage!!
    
    The newest addition is an 8 wk old tiger.  She is the runt of the
    litter and is soooo tiny and cute - she fits in the palm of your
    hand!  She has absolutely no fear of Molly either - they get along
    great - as long as Molly keeps her nose out of the kittens A**!
    They play and sleep together as if they were bro and sis!  The other
    (psychokitty) cat hates them both!  Anyways, this little kitten has
    no name yet!  So more suggestions are welcome.
    
    chaotic individual 

    Neat stars...neat names! :)  Your cats should be proud. :)
    
    Rob
    

    
    I am dying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ha ha ha ha hahahaheee hooooo haaa!!
    
    But seriously Heidi...  I didn't know she was psycho... 
    actually she wasn't psycho when she was with me...??  
    Maybe she has cabin fever...? 
    
    MJ

    Maybe she became psycho due to some chaotic influence,..
    
    Come to think of it,.. The Cabin itself is a chaotic influence,..
    
    							/wheres_the_bathroom?

    when I saw that little sweet cute kitty it couldn't hurt a flee !
    now I've never been to the chaotic Cabin (tm) but this poor kitty must
    have took one look around and said to itself " YIKES !!!! " and turned
    psycho !
    
    Chris :')

    
    Sue and I adopted a puppy the first day back from the honeymoon!!!
    
    "Jazz" is an 11 week old female golden retriever/lab mutt, and a real
    cutie!! :^)  Not the most cerebral of animals, but smart enough to know
    that she should poop outside :^)  She's a sweety......we're looking
    forward bringing her up and having lots of fun with her.  She's a riot!
    She thinks everything is a chew toy, though.....:^)
    
    Psyched to have my first puppy Hogan

    Marriage,.. honeymoon,.. and a puppy already?!?!?
    
    Won't be long now,.. Dad :-) :-)