Conference rdvax::grateful

From: janderso@mipos3.intel.com (Jim Anderson)
Subject: Do you want to do something great?
Date: 7 Feb 91 16:59:18 GMT
Reply-To: janderso@mipos3.UUCP (Jim Anderson)
 
Hello all you authors out there (published or otherwise).
 
I posted a couple of weeks back a suggestion that people write up
articles of the show that *got them on the bus*, and post them to the
net.  After talking about this idea to Bongo and doing some more thinking 
about it myself, I want to make a new request, or invitation, to take part
in a project that has the potential of being real fun as well as
creating something you can get your hands on and enjoy reading as
well as looking at it.
 
The project is starting to look like this.  I would like to get
50 to 100 people, or more, to write up articles about *that show*
and compile them into a book.  In addition to the authors, I am 
working on lining up some art work that will be sprinkled through 
out the book.  So if you want to draw as well as write I encourage that
also 8^)}. Once the articles and artwork are arranged and
compiled I will have it "published" at the local professional
copy/print shop, with the format being similar to the readers
you may have seen in college (that's what they called them at
UCSC any way).  The book will be in the 8.5" X 11" range, and will have
a heavy paper cover and binding to hold it all together. 
If they can do good color copying then the artwork could be both 
outline as well as full color.  
 
Once the book is published I will send them off to all those
interested, for the cost of publishing.  I think this
project has real potential for turning out Great!
 
There are no rules regarding article content or style, but I do 
want these to be well written.  Things I would *like* to see in these would 
be descriptions of events leading up to and surrounding the show;
personal feelings, perceptions (altered or otherwise), the
*music*, and anything else that fits.  Try to let us be there
through your writing.  Better yet, let us be *you* through
your writing.  To convey all of this I would think a length 
in the range of 500 to 1500 words will do.  Longer if you like
as long as it's not rambling.  As the articles come in, I will
have people who are expert in the technical aspects of writing
and the English language do a last edit to correct errors of
the punctuation, spelling, and typo sort.  The structure will
be left unchanged.
 
To encourage completely candid writing, I think using the U.S. mail
to send to articles would be better to maintain privacy.  As we 
all know, this net is similar to a CB radio; anyone can be listening, including
you "Just Say NO" who.
 
If you are interested in doing this, Email me your
intentions and I'll send you my address and answer any questions you
may have.  I also encourage you to ask any of your non-nethead Deadhead
friends to participate in this project.  I would like to get a quick
response so I can see if there are enough people willing to do this.
Once I get 25 or more commitments with more comming in regularly, I
will start the ball rolling with respect to finding editors,
checking on the publishing cost, contacting artists, and anything
else that will be required.  
 
As far as "by lines", you can keep your *real* identity
to your self and make up some name.  Of course I will know who
sent me Email, but any other connection between the Email and the
article you send is up to you.  Credits will be given as requested.
These and other details will work themselves out as the project progresses.
 
So let me know who wants to do this.  I know that we have some talented
writers on this net.  So send me mail to save your place in history.
I'll keep you all posted :-) on the progress.
 
Jim "Beam" Anderson
janderso@smdvx1.intel.com
 

XRN, for DECwindows and Motif 
---
See notesfile UFP::XRN note 66.last for location of current kit (the
kits and documentation are currently in UFP::SYS$KITS:[XRN]).  Copy the
appropriate executable to your account - probably best to put it in a 
subdirectory.  

Define a symbol to run XRN in your LOGIN.COM:

	$ XRN :== $disk:[dir]DXRN

Then you just type XRN to run the program ... there are parameters you can
supply as well, see XRN.DOC for more information on this.

You'll also need to let XRN know to which news server you want to connect.
Define a logical in your LOGIN.COM:

	$ DEFINE NNTPSERVER "node::""0=NNTP"""

where 'node' is the nearest node running a server on the network.  I use
SHLUMP, which is located in Littleton.  See CLO::VNEWS (I think) for a list
of servers.

* When you first run XRN, it'll display all the newsgroups (similar to
VAX Notes conferences) to which you can subscribe, amongst them is 
rec.music.gdead.  Different servers can carry a different set of newsgroups.
What I did was exit out of XRN, and edit a file that XRN creates called
NEWSRC.NEWSRC - this file contains a line for each newsgroup the server
carries.  At the end of each newsgroup name is either a ":" indicating you
subscribe to that newsgroup, or a "!" indicating you don't.  What I did was
to manually edit the file and replace the "!" with a ":" for each newsgroup
to which I wanted to subscribe.

See XRN.DOC for more info ....    

VNEWS, for character-cell terminals 
-----
Notesfile is CLO::VNEWS ... note 16.last contains information on latest kit,
and how to obtain it.  Currently you copy file 
CLO::DISK$USER1:[COBURN.VNEWS_DIST]GET-VNEWS.COM, then type @GET-VNEWS to
copy VNEWS to your account.  The files will be copied in batch if you have
FTSV installed on your system, otherwise they'll be copied interactively.

When the files have been copied, type @LINK-VNEWS to create VNEWS.EXE.  Press
RETURN when it asks you if you want CODE.OLB deleted, unless for some reason
you think you'll need to relink.

Then, edit VNEWS.COM and follow the instructions within ...

 - If you're not storing VNEWS in sys$login, change the "define/nolog newsdir
   sys$login:" line.  You could also remove this line from VNEWS.COM and
   define newsdir in your LOGIN.COM

 - Change the $news_server_node="" line - insert the name of the node running
   the news server (such as SHLUMP) between the quotation marks.

 - Change the "define/nolog NAME "My name is ..." " line to include your name.

 - Change the "define/nolog EDITOR "EDIT/TPU" " if you want to use a different
   editor, such as EDT.

Next, put the following line in your LOGIN.COM:

	$ @disk:[dir]VNEWS

where disk:[dir] is wherever you stored the VNEWS files.  If you want to run
VNEWS before you logout, type @LOGIN

Type VNEWS to run the program ... see the documentation to learn how to use
VNEWS.  You can type a ? at any point to see a list of commands.  

* When you first run VNEWS, you'll be asked if you want to subscribe to each
newsgroup the server carries ... you can exit out of VNEWS and edit the
NEWSRC.NEWSRC file as I mentioned above in the description of XRN.

Hope I got all of that right ... ;^)

- Dave

re < Note 35.2 by ISLNDS::CLARK "politicians throwing stones" >

>where 'node' is the nearest node running a server on the network.  I use
>SHLUMP, which is located in Littleton.  See CLO::VNEWS (I think) for a list
>of servers.

Not CLO::VNEWS; see UPSAR::NEWS-BACKBONE.  Topic 95 contains a semi-regularly
updated list of news servers ....

- Dave

        <<< UPSAR::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NEWS-BACKBONE.NOTE;2 >>>
                        -< The Easynet USENET backbone >-
================================================================================
Note 95.34  List of servers. Please list other/new servers here also.   34 of 34
KERNEL::CARPENTERS "ULTRIX customer support"         19 lines  28-FEB-1991 04:50
                          -< DECUK also serves news >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
       LOC  NODE  NUMB  D-NET       TCP/IP
    
       cxn shodha 8912   8.720      16.63.96.2
       dco decuac 36915 36.51
       jit tkou02 60156 58.764
       lkg shlump 4405   4.309      16.20.0.89  (shlump.nac.dec.com)
       ltn sousa  29872 29.176      16.120.0.31 (sousa.ltn.dec.com)
       mro ryn    21662 21.158
       pko engage 24729 24.153
       zko hiatus 2327   2.279
       reo hollie       42.203      16.36.0.15
       abo decabo       16.964
       soo loke         50.424
       nyo riscy  33202 32.434      16.69.128.17
       mko e2big        31.1008
       vbo uninet       51.407
       wro oct17        30.59       16.60.160.4 (oct17.dfe.dec.com)
       uvo decuk        41.6        16.182.128.1 (decuk.uvo.dec.com)

    I just installed the vnews software and am piggybacking off of LTN's
sousa:: node.  What is the proper protocol for attaching to a news server?  Do
I have to inform the server node that I am here?
    It also took a few tried to find a node close by that also carries
rec.music.gdead - not all nodes do.
    Thanks.

re < Note 35.4 by ALOSWS::GALLO "Galileo" >
>                                 -< protocol >-
>
>
>    I just installed the vnews software and am piggybacking off of LTN's
>sousa:: node.  What is the proper protocol for attaching to a news server?  Do
>I have to inform the server node that I am here?

All you need to do is edit the VNEWS.COM file and insert the server node in
the line ' $news_server_node="" '

Are you getting an error?

- Dave

        <<< Note 35.5 by ISLNDS::CLARK "politicians throwing stones" >>>

>All you need to do is edit the VNEWS.COM file and insert the server node in
>the line ' $news_server_node="" '
>Are you getting an error?


    No error at all.  I'm reading messages just fine.  I just wanted to know
if it is my ethical responsibility to notify people at the news server node 
that I am piggybacking on their machine...

re < Note 35.6 by ALOSWS::GALLO "Galileo" >
                                  -< ethics? >-

>    No error at all.  I'm reading messages just fine.  I just wanted to know
>if it is my ethical responsibility to notify people at the news server node 
>that I am piggybacking on their machine...

They only request that you deliver your first-born via interoffice mail.

;^)

- Dave

    
>They only request that you deliver your first-born via interoffice mail.
    
    
    That sounds particularly uncomfortable. :-).
    
    tim
    

Ok...

I have a network question.  I'm trying to send mail to someone at Trinity
College who sent me a message.  When I do a "reply", it comes back with a
host unknown error message (from DECWRL, I gues).  This is the address I'm 
using, minus the person's name:

	decwrl::"xxxxx@trincoll.edu"

This person was able to send to me using "ferguson@ultra.dec.com"  (which should
eventually be "ferguson@ultra.enet.dec.com").

It says, on the message, the following:

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 trincoll.edu (tcp)... 550 Host unknown
554 <xxxxx@trincol.edu>... 550 Host unknown (Valid name bu no A or MX)

   ----- Recipients of this delivery -----
<xxxxx@trincoll.edu>  (bounced)


Any ideas????  Need more info ??????

    Seems to be missing a node name.

	Re: .10  No, that's not necessary.  Many domains are either one machine,
or have a designated server to determine which machine to route to based on the
username.

	Re: .9  This is speculation, since I've never seen that particular
flavour of error before (valid name, but no A or MX record).  If it was just
a host unknown error, I'd say that all of the trincoll.edu domain nameservers
were down when you tried, in which case you could just try again later.  Another
thing to try is to let someone other than decwrl try to find where to send it.
You could do this by sending to decwrl::"xxxxx%trincoll.edu@somewhere", where
you replace 'somewhere' with another site that may know how to find trincoll.
You might, for example try 'uunet.uu.net' since they seem to know most places.

Mark

>flavour of error before (valid name, but no A or MX record).  If it was just

JC,

	I've two suggestions. If your message isn't that private, forward it to 
postmaster@trincoll.edu and request it be forwarded to your friend.

	If the message is private, send the error message to the postmaster and 
ask what he/she thinks you might be doing wrong.


Fog_whose_found_that_postmasters_are_generally_very_helpful_and_prompt_to_reply.

Re:            <<< Note 35.11 by 11SRUS::MARK "Waltzing with Bears" >>>

Ok, I tried again this morning and rec'd the same return message from DECWRL.
I'm going to try your suggestion. 

>You could do this by sending to decwrl::"xxxxx%trincoll.edu@somewhere", where
>you replace 'somewhere' with another site that may know how to find trincoll.
>You might, for example try 'uunet.uu.net' since they seem to know most places.

I'm trying decwrl::"xxxxx%trincoll.edu@uunet.uu.net" ...  ooopps, it just
bounced back!!  DAMN.  I need to get in touch with this guy.  Ok, here is
part of the mail message (headers) he sent me.  BTW, what is the "%" for?

VMS mail header to me:


From:	DECWRL::"xxxxx@trincoll.edu" 29-APR-1991 14:10:26.16
To:	ferguson@ultra.dec.com 
CC:	
Subj:   hello

Internet headers from the message he sent to me:

 
% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AB19977; Mon, 29 Apr 91 11:10:28 -0700
Received: by uucp-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA15198; Mon, 29 Apr 91 11:03:33 -0700
Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AD18972; Mon, 29 Apr 91 11:02:59 -0700
Received: by uucp-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA13046; Mon, 29 Apr 91 10:48:22 -0700
Received: by starbase.trincoll.edu.trincoll.edu (4.0/SMI-4.0)
	id AA04655; Mon, 29 Apr 91 13:46:09 EDT
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 91 13:46:09 EDT
From: xxxxx@trincoll.edu (Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx)
Message-Id: <9104291746.AA04655@starbase.trincoll.edu.trincoll.edu>
To: ferguson@ultra.dec.com
Subject: hello

I think you want an @ where the % is.

FWIW, I usually use n-mail when sending outside of DEC wall. NM%DECWRL::".....".
Seems to keep trying more (deep technical knowledge on my part) and error 
messages seem more specific

j

    
    i believe nmail will try for 24 hours before finally giving up...
    grate when the problem is not reaching the destination due to
    network noise/probs...  it keeps trying til it either succeeds,
    gets a "fatal error" (like your user was nuked), or the time elapses...
    
    					da ve

Well,

I read the internet header more carefully and tried:

	"xxxxx@starbase.trincoll.edu"

So far, 4 hours later, it has not bounced!  So, hopefully I'll make the
connection.  This person claims to have some pretty hot and rare tapes.
If things really happen, we could be getting some new "stuff" in the
taping system!

JC, waiting for a response from somewhere.

	There can only be one '@' in a message at a time.  If there's a '%'
(or more than one) in the message, it's turned into an '@' when it reaches the
machine to the right of the first '@'.  Thus, the address 
'xxx%trincoll.edu@uunet.uu.net' says to connect to uunet, give it the message, 
and have uunet send it to 'xxx@trincoll.edu'.

Mark

re:        <<< Note 35.16 by BIODTL::FERGUSON "the rainbow has a beard" >>>
   
>I read the internet header more carefully and tried:

>	"xxxxx@starbase.trincoll.edu"
               ^^^^^^^^
    
    So I guess it *was* missing a node name. 
    
    
    re: rare tapes
    
    I bet he doesn't have 10/2/72. ;-)
    
    - Gerry

Ger, I'll see if he does.  Chance are he doesn't.  This guy said to me that
he had several soundboard tapes that I have not seen in circulation... but,
there could be a difference between what he says and what he actually has or
is willing to give to me...  we'll see...

I wonder if he got the message.

JC,

This guy doesn't happen to be named Neil, does he?

Fog_who_has_a_konneteekut_konnekshun_too....

Re: fog


			negative.

From: hlr@well.sf.ca.us (Howard Rheingold)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: A lesson in intention and attention = magick
Date: 9 May 91 21:15:06 GMT
Sender: hlr@well.sf.ca.us
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
 
 
 Mamie, my 6 1/2 year old daughter, got a real lesson in magic at a 
 Grateful Dead show.  First of all, one of our rituals at all shows 
 is to look for her
 teacher from pre-school, Amalia. Well, you know how it is. You can't
 exactly "look for" somebody at a show. You just have to set your
 intention and keep your eyes open. I keep telling her you can't force
 it. So I said that if she wouldn't nag me, maybe we could work some
 deadhead magic. First, we set our intention to find her, and then we
 tried to forget about it, like setting an alarm clock. And Mamie,
 riding on my shoulders, kept her eyes open. Thirty seconds later, we
 found Amalia. Later, I told her she could do the same thing with
 balloons: she could intend for one to come her way. A blue balloon
 came her way. It had a cat and a kitten drawn on it in ballpoint. She
 listened to Phil with her fingers. She seemed to want to hang on to
 it, even though it was getting in the way. So I told her that she
 could try some stronger magic by tossingit away completely and then
 setting her intention and keeping her eyes open. A half hour later,
 balloon forgotten, she had to go to the potty. On the way, she spotted
 something under the stage and said she had to come back there. After
 the potty call, she remembered the stage. Of course, a bluecoat told
 us we couldn't go under there. We both gave her a look that paralyzed
 her long enough for Mame to scoot under and grab a blue balloon. It
 was so dusty that I tolher we probably didn't want to keep it. But she
 was determined. She dusted it off. There was the cat and kitten. Same
 balloon. Voila. Lesson in magic: set your intention, let it go, keep
 your eyes open. I'm sure she will always remember that.

    
    I love it  
    
    

    ...if you believe in magic...
                                 rfb

    
    Anyone know the current path to post to Dead-Flames?
    
    Thanks,
    Phyllis
    

    ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
    
    The service addresses, to which questions about the list itself and
    requests
    to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, are as follows:
    
        Internet: Dead-Flames-Request@fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU
                  Dead-Flames-Request@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU
        BITNET:   DF-Req@Virginia
        UUCP:     ...!uunet!virginia!dead-flames-request
    
    You can send mail to the entire list (and rec.music.gdead) via one of
    these
    addresses:
    
        Internet: Dead-Flames@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU
        BITNET:   D-Flames@Virginia
        UUCP:     ...!uunet!virginia!dead-flames
    

RE:          <<< Note 35.25 by TERAPN::PHYLLIS "Wake, now discover.." >>>
    
>    Anyone know the current path to post to Dead-Flames?
    
You could go the "direct route"..


To post to any of the 27 bazillion newsgroops, send to..

        DECWRL::"usenet.group.name@usenet"   Or,
        NM%DECWRL::"usenet.group.name@usenet"

So, "Dead-flames" would be: Decwrl::"usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet"

Fog

    I want to give someone outside of DEC my enet address and am not sure 
    what format it should be in - could someone please help me?  My node
    name is TOLKIN.
    
    Thanks
    
    Ginny

    Assuming your account name on TOLKIN is SANTAMARIA (Your note showed up
    as coming from node SHARE, but I assume that's just VMS clustering
    doing it's thing), they should be able to reach you using the address
    
    santamaria@tolkin.enet.dec.com
    
    John

    
    Can someone tell me how to send mail to someone on the well?
    
    I have <username>@well.
    
    What else do I need?
    
    Thanks.
    
    

    I believe it's "username@well.sf.ca.us" (plus the usual gateway stuff).

The address mentioned may work, one that I have seen is

"username@well.com"

Kevin

    	I use well!user@well.com. That works.
    
    Mystery
    

    
    Thanks everybody.  I used the first one Gerry gave and it  worked fine.
    
    

Looks like these are recreational notesfiles. Anyone know what the deal is?


dec.notes.personal.books:
dec.notes.personal.catalogs:
dec.notes.personal.energy_conservation:
dec.notes.personal.garden:
dec.notes.personal.hamradio:
dec.notes.personal.hiking:
dec.notes.personal.home_work:
dec.notes.personal.twin_peaks:
dec.notes.personal.riverrat:
dec.notes.personal.climbing:
dec.notes.personal.activities:
dec.notes.personal.photo:
dec.notes.personal.video:
dec.notes.personal.chess:
dec.notes.personal.flying:
dec.notes.personal.audio:
dec.notes.personal.cd: 
dec.notes.personal.movies:
dec.notes.personal.tv:

...looks like the usenet groups are definitely mirroring the Dec Notesfiles...

Fog_who_is_going_to_continue_to_investigate...


                <<< BTOQA::UD$2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HIKING.NOTE;3 >>>
                     -< HIKING and BACKPACKING Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 463.49   **Make / Modify / Repair clothing & Gore-Tex Fabrics      49 of 52
XANADU::RECKARD "Jon Reckard, 381-0878, ZKO3-2/T63"  15 lines  31-OCT-1991 07:22
                               -< Some thoughts >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I question if PVC and its joints will hold up to the stress and flexing
    that an external-frame pack normally? undergoes.  My plumbing joints
    don't normally get banged against trees with 30-50 pounds strapped to
    it, let alone the 150-200 pounds of the packer.  How about being
    dropped to the ground, fully loaded, from three feet up?  (Even if you
    never "throw off your pack", accidents happen.)

    Won't you have to drill holes for some connections?  Mightn't this
    structurally weaken (what I believe is) an already weak design?

    Also, the sturdier, thicker-walled stuff isn't really that light. 
    Inexpensive to make, as you say, yes.

    $20 will also buy you a serviceable pack from your local junk store. 
    (Mine has survived 20-ish years.)

Article          701
From: collier@rdvax.enet.dec.com (Bruce Collier)
Newsgroups: dec.notes.personal.hiking
Subject: Re: **Make / Modify / Repair clothing & Gore-Tex Fabrics
Date: 31 Oct 91 16:30:08 GMT
Sender: news@crl.dec.com (USENET News System)
Organization: Notes-News gateway - for Digital Internal Use Only
 
Title: **Make / Modify / Repair clothing & Gore-Tex Fabrics
Reply Title:    Do-it-yourself equipment   
 
    I have made outdoor gear (such as fanny pack, rain chaps, dining
    canopy) from scratch, with little prior sewing experience, so it can
    indeed be done.  However, good, durable items won't be very cheap, as
    cheap materials (like sheet plastic) are generally unsuitable (and
    heavy, bulky, etc.).  It's no accident that fabrics like rip-stop nylon
    are standard.  It isn't hard to get these yourself, but they aren't
    cheap; still, you can (with considerable care and labor) still save a
    lot over commercial products, and (hopefully) have products meeting
    your exact requirements.  But my savings would probably have translated
    into a quite low hourly wage, so you'ld better enjoy the work for its
    own sake, too.
     
    However, I am dubious that Boy Scouts would have the patience and skill
    to do anything at all complex (even a well executed fanny pack; rain
    chaps probably would work), so I would limit them to quite simple
    items, unless adults will supply most of the painstaking labor.  I am
    also dubious about the viability of a homemade packframe.  But you
    could get a commercial frame and make your own bag.
    
    		- Bruce
    

    if you are reading HIKING,look for a note title that has some voting
    going on...  they discovered over there that o lot of the notesfiles
    are being copied up to the network and to be read by a wider
    audience...  don't know how it's getting there but they are getting
    there...
    
    				da ve

    they are internal dec unesnet conferences.

RE:                      <<< Note 35.39 by SA1794::GLADUG >>>

>    they are internal dec unesnet conferences.

Right. At first (five minutes ago) I thought they were accessible from usenet 
users outside DEC, but they are not. Here's a bit more info...


From:	JDUFFY::WENTZELL     "Scott * ESG Field Programs * DTN297-3461"  1-NOV-1991 14:06:55.30
To:	SPICE::PECKAR
CC:	
Subj:	Lifted from the AUDIO notesfile...

Fog,

Here's some more info on thise Notes-News gateway, in you don't have it yet...


               <<< VAXWRK::$1$DUS6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]AUDIO.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The Emperor's New Audio >-
================================================================================
Note 3.19                   CONFERENCE ADMINISTRATION                   19 of 22
CTOAVX::JLAWRENCE "Jim / Hartford Insurance D.C.C."    63 lines  23-Oct-91 11:14
                              -< We'll try it... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Then I guess the consensus is that we try it and that it be read/write.
    
    I'll let them know. The following is the write-up the News folks sent.
    For your info...
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: The administrators of the Notes-News gateway

This conference is now being gatewayed by the Notes-News gateway, and
can now be read in the newsgroup

	dec.notes.personal.audio
    
This newsgroup, like all other dec.* newsgroups, is NOT distributed
outside Digital.

The Notes-News gateway allows Digital employees to read notes
conferences via Netnews. The system operates automatically.  New notes
from selected conferences are periodically extracted and distributed
to corresponding newsgroups. At the option of the conference
moderators, users of the gateway may also reply and post new topics via
News.

You have probably heard of Netnews before. It's a kind of electronic
bulletin board system that runs on multiple machines. Discussion
topics are divided into newsgroups, with names like comp.sys.dec,
ne.wanted, or rec.music.folk. Netnews readers post articles and reply
to them; the machines that run News exchange these postings. The
effect is like a distributed VAXNotes conference, except that older
articles are usually thrown away after some period of time (usually
one or two weeks).

Digital is part of a worldwide network of News machines called USENET.
Quite a few machines inside DEC distribute USENET news from outside.
In addition, these DEC machines also distribute newsgroups (dec.*)
that are Digital Internal Use Only.

Like all batch extractors, the Notes-News gateway may extract a note
that is later hidden or deleted by you or by a moderator.  Currently,
the gateway does not automatically cancel such articles. We will
manually cancel articles on request, however. Send mail to
CRL::NOTES-GATEWAY-ADMIN.

The Notes-News gateway is an outgrowth of the Telegraph research
project underway at the DEC Cambridge Research Lab, the goal of which
is to provide easier and more uniform access to a number of diverse
information sources, including Notes and News.

Dan Halbert, CRL::HALBERT or halbert@crl.dec.com
for the Notes-News administrators

% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% Received: by easynet.crl.dec.com; id AA21744; Thu, 17 Oct 91 17:54:23 -0400
% Message-Id: <9110172155.AA22792@navesink.crl.dec.com>
% To: CTOAVX::JLAWRENCE, FACT01::LAWRENCE, DDIF::MUNYAN, MILKWY::SLABOUNTY, VAXWRK::SWARD, GRAMPS::WCLAR
% Subject: The AUDIO conference and the Notes-News gateway
% Date: Thu, 17 Oct 91 17:55:00 -0400
% From: halbert
% X-Mts: smtp

    

also the isv group mirrors notesfiles in that it creates similar looking
files, often even cross-posting, but they are not the internal use only
notes files we know ... and get simply by typing notes.  Customers can post
to these files on the isv-net and read and send mail, as can us digits ...
however they (the customers) cannot get into the easynet.

When Mystery gets back ask him ... he is the isv_dude as a matter of fact!  :-)

    Could ne 1 assist me in how to send and receive messages outside
    of DEC? 
    
    I wish to be on the 'Phis.net' but got an invalid user specification
    when I tryed yo send them mail.
    
    From 'mail' after typing   phish-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu
    I got %mail-e-userspec, invalid user specification
    '@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu'
    
    I've never sent outside before so please bear with me :^)
    
    peace,Andy

re:      <<< Note 97.1459 by CBROWN::ABURNS "TAMALPAIS CHIEFS" >>>
     
    try decwrl::"phish-request@fuggles.acc.virginia.edu"  
    
    You'll need the quotes.
    
    - Gerry

    Another more local gateway is DECVAX.  It's here in ZKO.  DECWRL is in
    Palo Alto and probably takes longer.  I didn't know DECVAX was still in
    existance until I saw it a couple of months ago.  It's a dedicated
    gateway with a ton of modems.
    
    Scott
    

    I use DECWRL and can send and receive a reply in less than 2 minutes
    to/from Billetier at Amdahl.

    Decvax did not work for me :^/
    
    
    but decwrl did :^)
    
    
    thanx for the help :^) :^) :^)
    
    oh, and might there be a time window constraint as to when I
    might be able to send and recieve mail outside of DEC? :^0
    
    I tried shortly after I read your replies but got rejected both
    times :^o  It's possible I might've made a typo as I was on my 
    out and only had a quick once at them.
    
    thganx,Andy

    If DECWRL doesn't work you can also use DECPA, too.

I sent off a message to DECWRL:: and got my response back through US1RMC ...
not sure why?

    To get a response from outside of DEC do I have to give them
    an address to use or is it already there when I sent them my req?
    
    I've assumed the latter :^}
    
    peace,Andy

    re:         <<< Note 35.49 by CSLALL::ABURNS "TAMALPAIS CHIEFS" >>>
       
    >          -< &howlongshoodIwaitbforexpectinaresponse? >-

    You will only get mail when someone posts something to the Phish
    digest and not before. I assume it's a low volume digest. It's
    not like there's daily mailings or anything. Besides, finals
    are over and there's no DACKs left around to post anything.:-)
    
    I know the guys running it and if you still think that you are having
    problems, I can get them cleared up for you.
    
    
    >To get a response from outside of DEC do I have to give them
    >an address to use or is it already there when I sent them my req?
    
    The guys on the Phish digest know how to get in touch with you should 
    they so desire. 
    
    - Gerry

    re .-1
    
    Actually, the Phish digest is pretty high volume and comes out at least
    once a day.  The digest's address was printed in their last newsletter
    and the volume (and noise/signal ration) has gone up accordingly.
    
    re .-2
    
    The digest administrator may just not have gotten around to adding you
    yet.  BTW, you aren't missing much.
    
    Jamie

    re: Phish digest
    
    My mistake, I don't subscribe. I just assumed it was low volume
    since there really can't be much to say about the band. 
    

  This maybe a stupid question but I just Have to know .... what's a DACK? 

    Yes, what Lisa said...
    
    Also I had quite a time at a Sommerville show last year which 
    left me in a rilly good mood :^)
    
    As to what the 'net' has to offer, I'm hoping that they'll be a
    post NYE party to go to in the Woosta area that might be tuned
    in to the Dead show goin on in Oakland :^)
    
    peace,Andy

    A college kid that has a propensity for entering large amounts of
    usless drivel into a computer netwerk conference.

Thank you Gerry!  I'll have to admit though, I am suprised ... it isn't
an acronymn.  :-)

    It is an acronym but I'll not explain it here for fear of getting
    torched. :-)                         

Yea,... Gerry told me in mail, after he (lovingly!) called me a PITA.  ;^/

			:-) :-) ;^) :-) :-)

This one's real juicy...


The Porsche Guy's back, and heading for Vegas; this time, in a Mercedes!

For those who don't remember, he's is the famous Dale Clark who in 1988 
thought the dead scene at Hartford sucked and had no bones about expessing 
his opinion in rec.music.gdead.  This started the single most famous flames 
war that file has ever seen. This would be his second show.  :-)

    tell him to meet me at the greenpeace booth between stink and the dead
    and i'll show him the errors of his ways....%^)
    
    rfb

I remember that guy!!!


Someone should dose him, heavily!

Fog, what was the story with that?  He complained about Deadheads jumping on
his Porsche, or something?

    He complaibned about everything.  He let somee messages fly on the
    network telling everybody that he has never seen such a disgusting
    bunch of people in his life.  He went on and on about how dirty
    everybody was and how it made him sick.
    
    I always thought that it was a joke.  Just a fire being fueled....
    
    	Mike

                     <<< Note 35.64 by VXTST6::BOURDESS >>>

 >    I always thought that it was a joke.  Just a fire being fueled....
 >   	Mike

The big net out there needs more like you Mike!  That guy was just stirring
it up and oh what a bunch of suckers....

bob

> That guy was just stirring it up and oh what a bunch of suckers....

It is SOOOO easy to jerk chains on the usenet!  And oh boy what a backlash
it can cause... ;-)

I think that someime next fall I'll send the net a message from Jerry saying
'I'm quitting the Dead' 

8-)

    Well, just to shed a little more light, the Porsche guy went to the 
    Boreal Ridge show I believe (or maybe Telluride ? some place in
    the mountains.)  Not particularly into the scene or the music or
    the drugs flowing around.  He ended up getting dosed from a friends?
    punch or koolaid or such.  Then had a terrible time tripping and 
    trying to get away.  While leaving town finally, he got insulted
    by some heads (supposedly "how could you drive a Porsche to a dead
    show!?") and some even jumped on his car.  Most agreed that if the
    events actually took place, it wasn't a pleasant introduction to the 
    dead, but he fanned the flames by generally insulting deadheads and 
    the people on the net who tried to reason (some badly) with him.
    It was kind of fun to watch, but I stayed out of the mess.
    
    PeterT
    

Hmm.  My housemate just bought a Porsche 944 S.  He took it with him to the NC
and Albany shows.  Though, I don't think he actually drove it to the show, he
just left it at the hotel.  I'd better warn him!

adam

Didn't the Porche Guy also used to sign his netmail "The Porche Guy"? Or was
that moniker assigned to him by the deadnet community?   If the former, its 
like painting "Kick Me!" on your rear end....

Josh

about a year or so ago someone took the whole Porsche guy story, obviously
did a global replace of "Dead" with "Phish", and posted it to the PhishNet;
i think most people on the PhishNet realized it was a fake, based on the
past reaction that it caused on rec.music.gdead

the whole story was so ludicrous and insulting that i thought it was kind
of funny in a warped, twisted way

- rich

944's don't count.  They're not real Porshes anyway - just 
recycled VW's.


;-) ;-)

tim

    
    
    Aren't you thinking of 911's Tim?
    
    Tree_who_thinks_the_911_looks_alot_like_a_souped_up_VW...

    
    Actually, you're both thinking of 914's....
    
    

    Actually a 914 is a VW but i think the 912 could be clasified as a
    Porsche that ought to be a VW....
    
    Hey, anyone know if the VANAGON WESTFALIA is still being made...VW now
    has the EUROVAN out but it's smaller than a VANAGON and doesn't get as
    good gas milage....i want to get a WESTFALIA but you never ever ever
    ever see them for sale....
    
    Maybe the allmight great gadzus The UNIVERSE could answer this one
    appropriately???
    
    			Dugo

    I recently had the oppourtunity to drive a westfalia about a month ago. 
    I've never driven a bus before, so it may be similar.  It had zero
    power and pickup, and when traveling in the mountains of Ore. & Wa,
    thats not good.  I got a bit frustrated with it.  After resting my arms
    on the steering wheel for a while I realized why they called them
    buses.  Our group referred to it as "the loaf". :-) (as in bread not
    something slow)
    
    	Mike

    
    re: .74
    
    They don't make the VANAGON WESTFALIA anymore.  I just sold mine 2
    months ago - it was an '80.  Got it from CARBUFFS file a few years ago.
    The camper parts worked fine, but mechanically it was out to lunch.
    
    The EUROVAN is a front engine, front wheel drive, water cooled vehicle.  
    Worse mileage, but twice the power.
    
    	Pete

>After resting my arms
>    on the steering wheel for a while I realized why they called them
>    buses.

i have a friend who owned a bright orange '73 vw bus, camper model (which was
in near mint condition when he bought it - almost 20 years old and only about
30,000 miles), and that was his complaint; he said that basically it drives
like a bus would; very practical for certain uses, but very impractical for a
normal, everyday car; so he sold it

- rich

    I learned to drive with my dad's micro-bus...I'd love to have that bus
    now ! 

re             <<< Note 35.27 by SPICE::PECKAR "Clean Phil Wanted" >>>

>You could go the "direct route"..
>
>
>To post to any of the 27 bazillion newsgroops, send to..
>
>        DECWRL::"usenet.group.name@usenet"   Or,
>        NM%DECWRL::"usenet.group.name@usenet"
>
>So, "Dead-flames" would be: Decwrl::"usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet"


is this still true?  i want to post something to rec.music.gdead.

re:        <<< Note 35.79 by ZENDIA::FERGUSON "Your recipe is so tasty" >>>

>>So, "Dead-flames" would be: Decwrl::"usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet"
>
>
> is this still true?  i want to post something to rec.music.gdead.


I have dead-flames defined as CRL::"Dead-Flames@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU"
				^
			        or DECWRL
			        or US3RMC
				etc

Happy flaming ;-)

/Ken

I've never been able to figure this out.

Is what as known as "dead-flames" the same as "rec.music.gdead" ?

    
    I believe so.  When I want something "on the net" I post to
    dead-flames.
    
    

bounced when i sent it to:

	DECWRL::"usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet"

what next?


From:	US1RMC::"MAILER-DAEMON@Pa.dec.com" "Mail Delivery Subsystem" 13-AUG-1993 10:40:28.18
To:	zendia::ferguson
CC:	
Subj:	Returned mail: User unknown

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Description: Session Transcript

While talking to usenet.pa.dec.com:
>>> RCPT To:<usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet.pa.dec.com>
<<< 550 <usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet.pa.dec.com>... Addressee unknown
550 <usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet>... User unknown

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Description: Recipients of this Delivery

Bounced, cannot deliver:
   <usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet>

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Description: Returned Content

Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA09328; Fri, 13 Aug 93 07:40:15 -0700
Message-Id: <9308131440.AA09328@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>
Received: from zendia.enet; by decwrl.enet; Fri, 13 Aug 93 07:40:15 PDT
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 07:40:15 PDT
From: "Go ask Alice, when she's ten feet tall  13-Aug-1993 1038 -0400" <ferguson@zendia.enet.dec.com>
To: usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet.pa.dec.com
Cc: ferguson@zendia.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: usenet.rec.music.gdead@usenet.pa.dec.com
Subject: Lyrics and music to "Tomorrow is Forever"

Folks,

I'm interested in getting the words and music to the song
"Tomorrow Is Forever".  The grateful dead covered this from about
'72 - '74.

any pointers, help, information, etc would be most appreciated.

i do not read this newsgroup, so please direct your replies/information
to:

	ferguson@zendia.enet.dec.com

thanks in advance.
JC Ferguson


------- =_aaaaaaaaaa--

% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% Received: by us1rmc.bb.dec.com; id AA27753; Fri, 13 Aug 93 10:39:04 -0400
% Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA09330; Fri, 13 Aug 93 07:40:15 -0700
% Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 07:40:15 -0700
% From: MAILER-DAEMON@Pa.dec.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
% Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
% Message-Id: <9308131440.AA09330@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>
% To: zendia::ferguson
% Mime-Version: 1.0
% Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa"

    
    To: DECPA::"dead-flames@fuggles.acc.Virginia.edu"
    
    

re:        <<< Note 35.83 by ZENDIA::FERGUSON "Your recipe is so tasty" >>>

> what next?

Try posting to the address in .80...      BTW, I've seen another JC Ferguson
post there.  Yes, there are 2 of you, or should that be YIKES!! ;-)

dead-flames vs rec.music.gdead

The way I understand it is that the 2 access the same posts, but in different
ways:  if you use rec.music.gdead you read the net via a server system (vnews),
post by post in order of posting.   if you read via dead-flames, you get a 
digest or mail message of new postings at some interval.  For writing, you
send email to dead-flames (correct address is necessary ;-) or use the vnews 
server interface.

To sign up for or cancel dead-flames, add -request to the address; ie,
dead-flames-request. ...

Ken

Yeah, as Ken said.  Dead-flames is a digest that cross posts/reads from 
rec.music.gdead.  So they are basically the same.  Though I know on 
occassions, that they've gotten uncrossed, and somethings that got sent
to one, never made it to the other.  Hence a few years ago when 
road-runner was doing his semi-annual Nethead shirt offer, he sent out a 
note that said, final day to get in is tomorrow, and everyone responded
back, What do you mean, this is the first we heard of it!!!!
Seems he had posted from a news reader to rec.music.gdead, and only 
people using a similar reader saw it, none of those on dead-flames 
saw it till the pre-cutoff announcement.

PeterT

	Has any figuerd why the hell you can't post to the usenet 
	using DXRN???? I can read but I can't flame!!!! 

	flame_retardant_material! ;-)

>dead-flames vs rec.music.gdead
>
>The way I understand it is that the 2 access the same posts, but in different
>ways:

yup, that's how it is; they contain the same information, it's just a
preference of using mail or news to get it; this same thing is true of the
Phish Digest and rec.music.phish

- rich

I have no problem posting to any newsgroup from Vnews. The key is not to 
muck up the header text too much.

>	Has any figuerd why the hell you can't post to the usenet 
>	using DXRN???? I can read but I can't flame!!!! 

i've done it before

- rich

re       <<< Note 35.87 by AKOCOA::SMITH_D "So many roads tease my soul" >>>

>	Has any figuerd why the hell you can't post to the usenet 
>	using DXRN???? I can read but I can't flame!!!! 

Deano, are you getting an error message, or is your post just not showing
up, or ... ?

- DC

    
    	I was getting an error message, but I can't remember just what 
    	it was, I believe it said something about header information 
    	being incorrect, message not sent.
    
    	pu'nix  

Thanks Phyllis, I now have the lyrics to Tomorrow is Forever............!

    Okay... I printed 35.2 and carefully followed the directions.  When I
    type in VNEWS at the $, I get "unrecognized command verb".  Since a lot
    of you seem to be able to work this newsreader thing, I could use a
    little help.
    
    I successfully created a sub-directory, copied the files into it, 
    ran the LINK portion, and edited the resulting vnews.com file.  (I
    assume that I made an error in the .com editing since everything seemed
    to work up to that point.)
    
    Any suggestions?  I am at DTN 521-3165 if anyone is inclined to hazard
    a guess.
    
    Thanks 

re: VNEWS

Without re-reading the instructions (I've already done this a few years ago), I
believe there is a VNEWS.CLD command line description file.  This sets the
command 'verb' VNEWS, and explains the qualifiers and parameters that can
appear on the command line.  To get rid of the error, you must do:

$ SET COMMAND VNEWS

assuming you are in the directory that contains VNEWS.CLD.  This will set up
the command verb and the error should go away.  You must also do:

$ @VNEWS

to execute the VNEWS.COM file, which sets up the server name.  Make sure you
specify the node name of the server on the line in the com file that says

$ news_server_name = "<server name>"

that should do it.

adam

    You need to have these commands in your login.com file:
    
$ define newsrc [your vnews directory]newsrc.newsrc
$ @[your vnews directory]vnews.com
    
    Vnews.com will define the vnews command for you.  You never executed
    vnews.com, so you don't know if you made a mistake there yet.
    
    Jamie

    re: last two
    
    Thanks for your assistance.  I will try your advice as soon as I get a
    chance and will let you know how it goes.  

    BTW, I got the vnews files to work!! Thanks for your help.  Now, I
    would like to edit the news.rc-server file and I need to know the
    command for global find and replace.  Does anyone out there know what
    it is?

    global replaces are done differently depending on the editor you're
    using.  Is it vi, eve, lse, edt?
    
    alot of the editors on VMS allow you to use the "do" key.  If you're
    using such an editor, type <do> then <replace> at the command prompt. 
    It will then ask you for the old and new strings.
    
    hope this helps...
    
    	Mike

in EDT

<PF1>7 Subs/string to replace/replace string/w/not

Hope this helps,

Geoff

Also, in EDT, add the following line to your EDTINI.EDT file...


DEFINE KEY GOLD R AS "EXT S/?*'REPLACE: '/?*'  WITH: '/WHOLE." 

    re:  100,101
    
    Worked like a charm!  Thanks again.
    
    -jer

this doesn't really have anything to do with the dead, but i couldn't find
any other network related topic (at least not with a keyword), so i figured
this ws the best place...

------- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: treese@crl.dec.com
Received: by quabbin.crl.dec.com; id AA15737; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 14:50:57 -0400
Received: by easynet.crl.dec.com; id AA27291; Wed, 8 Sep 93 14:50:54 -0400
Message-Id: <9309081850.AA09014@aqaba.crl.dec.com>
To: supnik@human.enet.dec.com, winters@nas007.enet.dec.com,
        fuller@rdvax.enet.dec.com, reid@nsl.dec.com,
        tzelnic@dsmail.enet.dec.com, hawe@nac.enet.dec.com,
        dement@delni.enet.dec.com, miller@erlang.enet.dec.com,
        souza@erlang.enet.dec.com, wilkinson@erlang.enet.dec.com,
        lauck@tl.enet.dec.com, jmiller, swan@pa.dec.com
Cc: jg, payne, mbrown
Subject: Xmosaic: A Browser for Internet Services
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 14:50:51 -0400
From: treese
X-Mts: smtp


Tired of not being able to use gopher, wais, WWW, and other Internet
services?  Then read on...

The Cambridge Research Lab is pleased to announce general availability
of new Internet gateway services via xmosaic.  xmosaic is an X Window
System interface developed at the National Center for Supercomputer
Applications (NCSA) to the World Wide Web (W3) information service,
originally developed at CERN.  At this time, binaries are being
provided of xmosaic for Alpha/OSF and MIPS/Ultrix using TCP/IP.  In
addition, SDT/AD has a version for VAX/VMS, and hopes to have browsers
for W3 for Windows at some time in the future.  Versions that will be
usable from DECnet-only sites will likely be available before the end
of October.

For those of you with early copies of xmosaic that use the Internet
relay, please replace old versions of xmosaic with the ones below;
they will soon cease working in any case.

xmosaic provides a convenient user interface and Internet access to
many Internet services, including W3, gopher, WAIS (Wide Area
Information Services), ftp, and other services such as elf, news,
Digital stock quote, and we hope someday notes and vtx (any volunteers
out there?).  Note that there are some restrictions discussed below on
some services (telnet in particular) imposed for security reasons.  We
encourage others to spread the Web's tentacles!

The Internet gateway services are experimental and if problems arise
may become unavailable without notice.

To get started, copy the binaries found via anonymous ftp
from crl.dec.com, in:
	dec/www/bin.mips/{xmosaic,xv}
or	dec/www/bin.alpha/{xmosaic,xv}
These are also on CRL:: with same path.  xv is an image viewer that is
used by xmosaic to display images .

These should be installed in /usr/local/bin or some other place in your
search path.

For the VMS xmosaic client, copy the saveset found at:
	CIM::ARCH$PUBLIC:XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.README
	CIM::ARCH$PUBLIC:XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.BCK
Our thanks to Ralph James and Loren Konkus for this work!

The VMS client requires that UCX be installed to provide TCP/IP
service.

Note that if Motif has never been installed on your MIPS/Ultrix
system, you will need to install a /usr/lib/XKeysymDB file from some
other system on your machine, or your keyboard bindings will not work
properly.  This is not a problem on Alpha/OSF systems.

Below we have included the Digital Corporate "Home Page", the
Internet Information Servers page, and the "Frequently Asked
Questions" page which provide an overview of how to get started.
Please read these before venturing further.  The Digital W3 home page
is still under development.  Discussions about WWW at Digital take
place in the dec.ip or dec.notes.networking.internet_tools newsgroups
(the latter is also the SOFBAS::INTERNET_TOOLS notesfile).
Significant problems or administrative issues should be sent to
www-relay@crl.dec.com (crl::www-relay); general questions should go in
the newsgroups.

Note that, for security reasons, all usage of the relay is logged.

Our thanks to the many others in Digital who have contributed to
this effort, including Andy Payne(CRL), Brian Reid(NSL), Richard Schedler(SRC),
Frank Wortner (NYO), Mark Shand(PRL), Les Carleton(CSC/UK), Glenn 
Trewitt(NSL), Russ Jones(IMC), Ralph James(SDT), Loren Konkus(SDT), 
and others we're sure we've overlooked.


			Win Treese	treese@crl.dec.com
					Jim Gettys	jg@crl.dec.com

			Digital Equipment Corporation
					Cambridge Research Laboratory


- - --------------------------
Digital Equipment Corporation W3 server

Digital Internal Use Only

Introduction

Welcome to Digital's World-Wide Web (W3) information service.  The
World-Wide Web is a global hypertext system used on the Internet.
There are now hundreds of web servers around the world, providing
information on an exploding number of topics.  Each highlighted phrase
(in color and/or underlined) is a hyperlink to another document.
Single click on any highlighted phrase to follow the link.

Internal Digital W3 servers are NOT accessible outside of Digital.
Internal W3 servers can link to external information sources, but W3
servers outside Digital cannot access internal W3 information sources.
Digital Corporate Communications does operate an external W3 server on
gatekeeper to provide product information to our customers.

Digital Organizations 

Many Digital organizations operate WWW servers.  Click here for a list of
Digital W3 servers.  

Information Sources

   Digital Stock Quote.  
   Links to Digital FTP Archives.  
   ELF - Employee Locator Facility (experimental).  

Links to Internet Services 

The Internet gateway services are experimental and if problems arise may
become unavailable without notice!  

You can also link to documents and services available outside of
Digital on the Internet.  All kinds of services and documents are
available, ranging from product information to library card catalogs,
indexed databases of many kinds, and to museum exhibitions to recipe
indexes.  Please click here before using Internet services for the
first time for further information.

Some other notes...

   Answers to frequently asked questions.  
   What's new in Digital's WWW.  
   How to get xmosaic and related software for displaying images, playing
   audio, etc.  
   How you can contribute to the spread of the WWW.  
   NCSA Mosaic documentation.  

Reporting Problems

This W3 server is still under development.  Discussions about WWW at Digital
take place in the dec.ip or dec.notes.networking.internet_tools newsgroups (the
latter is also the SOFBAS::INTERNET_TOOLS notesfile).  Significant problems
or administrative issues should be sent to www-relay@crl.dec.com
(crl::www-relay); general questions should go in the newsgroups.  

wt, jg, payne

Last updated 8/30/93 by jg.  

__________________________________________________________________ 
Digital Cambridge Research Lab



Internet Information Servers

Links to Internet Services 

The Internet gateway services are experimental and if problems arise
may become unavailable without notice!

Please use common sense before requesting high bandwith services such
as audio, large images, and video clips.  Others may need the
bandwidth for other more useful purposes in Digital.  Please also be a
good Internet citizen; some information services may be behind slow
network connections which the providers need for other purposes.  A
good guideline is "if it takes a long time, you probably should not do
it again".

U.S.  export control laws may apply if you are using these services
from Europe to FTP certain controlled (e.g.  cryptographic) software,
even if the software is from outside the U.S.  The legalities of this
are not clear when the data is only in transit through the U.S., but
Digital better not be the test case!

Telnet links from inside Digital to outside information sources will
not work, for security reasons (it would provide a high bandwidth path
for information from inside to outside of Digital).  To get external
telnet access, send mail to "guard-request@pa.dec.com"; they will
issue you a cryptographic card for authentication at the external
gateway.

Be wary of programs you ftp from the Internet; if they are not from
reputable sources, be particularly wary.  Binaries are to be avoided;
you should rebuild software from sources whenever possible, after
examination of the source.  Incorporation of outside sources into
Digital products should only be done after careful examinations of
copyrights; contact the legal department and/or your management chain
with any questions.

These are some interesting Internet information services that you can
reach using XMosaic.  The current selections are intended to show off
the range of services available, not to be an exhaustive list or a
list of the "best" sources.

   NCSA Starting Points for Internet Exploration 

   Boston Weather Forecast 
   San Francisco Weather Forecast 

   NCSA Mosaic Demo Document 
   What's New With NCSA Mosaic (updated daily) 

   Recipes 
   The USENET Cookbook 

   Cornell Law School Legal Information Institute 

Other services can be found in the XMosaic "Documents" menu.  

This page is still under construction; suggestions are welcome.
Complaints, suggestions, and questions should be sent to
payne@crl.dec.com or treese@crl.dec.com or jg@crl.dec.com.

jg

__________________________________________________________________ 
Digital Cambridge Research Lab


Frequently Asked Questions

  1 Q: Why won't audio won't work on my system?  

   A: First, your system may or may not have audio hardware.  Make sure
   your system has audio equipment.  The Digital UNIX version of xmosaic
   uses "aplay" to play audio, part of the AudioFile system of CRL
   (xmosaic can be customized to use other audio software).  

   Another cause of failure may be that you have the AudioFile software
   installed on your system, but never started your AudioFile server.  

  2 Q: Why won't images display on my system?  

   A: For large images to be displayed on your system, xmosaic by default
   uses xv, an image display and manipulation program.  Click here to ftp a
   copy of xv to your system.  (NYI).  

  3 Q: Why won't telnet links work?  

   A: Telnet links from inside Digital to outside information sources will not
   work.  This is for security reasons (it would provide a high bandwidth
   path for information from inside to outside of Digital).  To get external
   telnet access, send mail to "guard-request@pa.dec.com"; they will issue
   you a cryptographic key for authentication at the external gateway.  

  4 Q: Why, when I start xmosaic, do I get pages of "X Toolkit Warning"
   messages on my screen?  And the keyboard doesn't seem to work
   properly?  

   A: Motif may never have been installed on your system.  Make sure the
   /usr/lib/XKeysymDB file has been installed (ULTRIX or Alpha/OSF);
   one copied from a system where Motif has been installed should work
   fine.  

  5 Q: Why don't my gopher, WWW, Wais or other clients work without
   modifications?  

   A: Digital must protect itself from a few of the millions of Internet users
   who might want to compromise our networks; in order to do so we run
   secure gateways.  Systems on Digital's internal networks cannot
   directly connect to systems outside of Digital.  xmosaic works by
   forwarding requests for outside documents to a program on one of our
   external gateways, which performs the operations on your behalf.  This
   means that outside intruders only have few places they can attack
   Digital, rather than the tens of thousands of internal systems, many of
   which are very insecure.  So any such program requires modification to
   work with our gateway.  They should work correctly internally to Digital,
   however.  

jg

___________________________________________________________________ 
Digital Cambridge Research Lab

- ------- End of Forwarded Message



------- End of Forwarded Message

Hmmm, just installed this on my new Sandpiper.  haven't had a chance to 
run it yet, but I saw it working yesterday and it looked pretty darn
neat.

PeterT

Welp, I've been using the VMS version for about an hour now ;^) ... fascinating
stuff.  

- dc

I'd been running an older vesion for a couple of weeks, before it could go
outside the gateway. Even with that restriction it was a useful toy.

Now that I can browse the outside world, it gets even more interesting.

It doesn't appear to generate much traffic until you actually try to pull 
documents. Searches etc appear to be handled by the remote servers. It does seem
to generate a lot of open connections.

You can bounce around various www nodes to access stuff that isn't directly known
to the DEC www nodes.

gary

Ooops. I forgot to add that you can access the Clinton/Gore report on 
making gov't more efficient from the NCSA home page, including the specs
for "Ash Receivers, tobacco, desk top".

gary

dabnabbit, the golddarned executive done an gone an filled up /usr!

xmosaic (1953792 bytes), jeepers, that must be a a lot of code!

That's why VMS measures things in blocks.

>Now that I can browse the outside world, it gets even more interesting.

can you use it to run IRC (Internet Relay Chat) ?

- rich

can anyone who's gotten this to work give me a hand?

>For the VMS xmosaic client, copy the saveset found at:
>	CIM::ARCH$PUBLIC:XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.README
>	CIM::ARCH$PUBLIC:XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.BCK

i can look at these files, but it won't let me copy them:

Hey Now>dir CIM::ARCH$PUBLIC:XMOSAIC*

Directory CIM::DISK$USERS1:[KONKUS.PUBLIC]

XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.BCK;4                   XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.README;8

Total of 2 files.
Hey Now>copy CIM::DISK$USERS1:[KONKUS.PUBLIC]XMOSAIC*.*.* []
%COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening CIM::DISK$USERS1:[KONKUS.PUBLIC]XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.BC
K;4 as input
-RMS-E-ACC, ACP file access failed
-SYSTEM-F-LINKEXIT, network partner exited
%COPY-E-OPENIN, error opening CIM::DISK$USERS1:[KONKUS.PUBLIC]XMOSAIC-VMS-UCX.RE
ADME;8 as input
-RMS-E-ACC, ACP file access failed
-SYSTEM-F-LINKEXIT, network partner exited

any clue why i can't get them?  can i copy them from someone who does have
them?

giving up with VMS, i tried ultrix:

>To get started, copy the binaries found via anonymous ftp
>from crl.dec.com, in:
>	dec/www/bin.mips/{xmosaic,xv}
>or	dec/www/bin.alpha/{xmosaic,xv}
>These are also on CRL:: with same path.  xv is an image viewer that is
>used by xmosaic to display images .

>These should be installed in /usr/local/bin or some other place in your
>search path.

i was able to successfully get the files via ftp, but when i try calling up
xmosaic it doesn't work:

fromm@evsrv1 % xmosaic
xmosaic: Permission denied.

is this the proper syntax?  do i need to do anything else?

- rich

I can't pull the VMS files either...seems like a networking problem on CIM.

You're ULTRIX problem looks like a file protection problem somewhere...perhaps.

	dave

I think CIM:: has become overloaded. They advertise an alternate node
for the VMS/UCX based kit in INTERNET_TOOLS today.

gary

>They advertise an alternate node
>for the VMS/UCX based kit in INTERNET_TOOLS today.

is INTERNET_TOOLS a notes file, i assume?  what node is it on?

btw, what is UCX?

- rich

>btw, what is UCX?

Glad you asked!!!

It's the product I work on.  The name is superfluous, a throwback to
the days when we didn't want to acknowledge that TCP/IP was a viable
alternative to DECnet.  UCX was shorthand for VMS/Ultrix Connection,
the original name for DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS.  You install
it on your VAX or Alpha system under VMS and use it to communicate
over the Internet.

tim
(SNMP Developer)
(DEC TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS)

HELP!

A taper friend (Eric Simon) I trade email with says:

quote

Can you please send me your real email address ?  All I can do
is "reply" now, and it uses a rediculous address:
'wedoit::belkin'@pndvue.enet.dec.com
There has got to be a better one than that.

endquote

I'm a bit usenetically-impaired when it comes to proper e-net addresses, so
what IS a better address for me?

Note that PNDVUE is a router I sometimes use when emailing from my workstation
(12X5) which is a hidden node :-(.  I could drop that from the address,
giving: 'wedoit::belkin'@enet.dec.com  I _think_, but I think Eric wants
something more sensible that that.

thanks, Josh

The most sensible thing to do would be to use SMTP over TCP/IP on 
your workstation and become a member of the Internet network
directly.  Un*x comes with it (including Ultrix and OSF/1), and
VMS has my product, UCX, to support TCP/IP.  The Internet doesn't
have the 'hidden area' problems that DECnet has, so you could
exchange mail directly.  You'll need an Internet address, which
will look like 16.20.n.m, and you'll need to get your name registered
on the local name server/mail server - you should then be able to
receive mail sent to belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com...

Check your local network administrators for details.

tim

re .-1

Whoooaaaaaahhh there!  Waitaminute!  hold yer horses!

I'm a VMS is VMS is VMS guy... My workstation and cluster is VMS.

>VMS has my product, UCX, to support TCP/IP.  The Internet doesn't
Hmmm??  Hey, we have VMS HELP for UCX, now I gotta find a manual.

Briefly, how does all this work, and isn't there a way I can specify my
address better for Eric, without needing an internet address - I don't want
to get complicated with registering with servers and all that.

thanks, Josh

Sounds like you're halfway there.  The UCX Help file only shows up if
you have UCX installed already.

Tell him to try belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com.  That's as simple as it's
gonna get, most likely...I'd be interested hearing if you have any
trouble with this...

tim

> try belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com

Whenever anyone asks for my enet address, it's hannan@gnpike.enet.dec.com.
Same as above, which should work since WEDOIT isn't hidden.

Ken

Ken,

Hidden areas is a DECnet concept, and shouldn't have any effect on
TCP/IP mail delivery, which is what belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com implies.
In other words, even if wedoit WAS in a hidden area, it should work
anyway...

tim

That will depend upon how the gateway deals with DECnet hidden nodes. The
".enet" part of the address tells it that it is really speaking to a DECnet
node.

Try mailing yourself at decwrl::"belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com". If that works,
others should be able to mail you at belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com from the real
world.

If it doesn't work, get yourself two tin cans and a very long piece of string...

gary

 Oops - sorry, you're right Gary.  I forgot that the .enet domain was
a gateway to DECnet...

tim

Another proper 'Digital' way of specifying your address is to use the site
name instead of a node name.  Though quarry::petert and 
petert@quarry.ENET.dec.com are essentially the same, I've been told
I should use petert@zk3.dec.com to give outside folks.  Or, 
petert@zk3.ENET.dec.com, which sometimes seems to get routed wierdly.
This will work as long as you are recognized by the major routers.
It didn't work the first month or two I was here, because things got
routed through decvax, and decvax didn't know me from a hole in the
wall.

PeterT

    
    	Well specifically, .enet means DECNet Phase IV. If you use a
    site code, you are then using TCP/IP. I've seen D5NET also, for
    Phase V DECnet.
    
    

re<<< Note 35.125 by QUARRY::petert "rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty" >>>
                      -< or try belkin@sitename.dec.com >-

>Another proper 'Digital' way of specifying your address is to use the site
>name instead of a node name.  Though quarry::petert and 
>petert@quarry.ENET.dec.com are essentially the same, I've been told
>I should use petert@zk3.dec.com to give outside folks.  Or, 

Probably Dumb questions time:

But how does the router know to which machine to send your message?
What if you had two PETERT accounts, on separate machines, in ZK3?

Or when you say "recognized by the major routers," do you mean that
the name "petert" is somehow registered with the DEC servers as
send-vaxmail-to-quarry::petert ?

- DC

> But how does the router know to which machine to send your message?
> What if you had two PETERT accounts, on separate machines, in ZK3?

Coming from one of the Dave Clark's I can appreciate that question ;-)
In fact there are several petert accounts sprinkled through zk3,
they're all mine though, and .forward leads to one place, so, I'm
not sure if they are in fact all going to one machine.  But I'm assumming
that .zk3 is know to all dec routers and that tends to focus on one 
machine.  It's that machine that has to figure out whether petert (or perert)
is known to it and to which machine to ultimately send it to.
As a point of fact, which I'm sure a Dave Clark could appreciate, there
is in fact another 'Peter Thompson'@zko, who goes by thompson.  But 
getting things via All-in-One(jumble) mail, shows me that it isn't 
smart enough to distinguish us yet.  I usually get his mail.  Too bad
I don't get the expenses he submits ;-)

> Or when you say "recognized by the major routers," do you mean that
> the name "petert" is somehow registered with the DEC servers as
> send-vaxmail-to-quarry::petert ?

Hmmmm, don't think so.  I was thinking more of a .zk3.dec.com ending 
instructing mailers where to send things.  .dec.com is recognized by
all internet sites as forwarding to the Digital network,  .zk3 is 
inturn recognized by the digital networks as being ZKO, and more
particularly as ZK3.  The zk3 machine is the one that has to know
who petert is to be able to forward it to quarry, and that's just a 
factor of keeping an uptodate alias database. 

PeterT

    ...and the .zk3 machine has a little program in it called a name server
    which contains a database of people it knows about (called MX records),
    which the mail software uses to look up petert and figure out what
    computer to send the message to...
    
    tim
    

re -.1  bingo ... I get it now

From:	CONTRA::PMCVAY "Pete McVay, LKG2-2/P09 226-7646  09-Nov-1993 1004"    9-NOV-1993 10:07:15.01
To:	NECSC::PECKAR
CC:	
Subj:	Internet routing: Don't use DECWRL

From nsl::vigeant Wed Nov  3 19:19:02 1993
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 19:18:57 -0700
From: nsl::vigeant (Wayne Vigeant)
To: nsl::ip-managers
Cc: nsl::vigeant
Subject: Internet Mail Gateway

I want to get the word out to as many people as possible
about the correct usage of the Internet Mail Gateway from
DECnet nodes. Since a lot of you IP managers are either 
DECnet managers or know the local DECnet managers, this
message is going out to you. Please pass it on.

When sending mail from a VMS node using DECnet to the 
Internet, users should address this mail to one of the 
Regional Mail Concentrators (RMC). The RMC's are:
  US1RMC -> located in Littleton, Ma.
  US2RMC -> located in Nashua, N.H.
  US3RMC -> located in Palo Alto, Ca.
  VBORMC -> located in Valbonne, France
  JRDMAX -> located in Japan


The RMC's are fully supported production level mail servers. 
Problems with the RMC's can be reported to the Enterprise 
Services Center in LKG,  DTN 226-5001 select 5, or send
mail to "JETSAM::NETAPPS" or 
"rmc-problems@bb.dec.com".

The RMC's can route IP mail and DECnet mail. 

Mail coming into Digital from the Internet gets sent 
to one of the RMC's for delivery to internal DECnet nodes. 

Mail from a DECnet node to the Internet can be sent through one
of the RMC's by sending to:
     xxxRMC::"internet address"
where "xxxRMC" is the closest RMC to the user.




Users should not route Internet mail through DECWRL. 
DECWRL is not a production level mail server. DECWRL
is available as an access point to the gatekeeper archives
from DECnet hosts but it is not a mail server. Anyone using 
DECWRL as a mail machine is taking a chance that it will
be unavailable at any time with no warning.

% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% Received: by nsl.pa.dec.com; id AA13885; Wed, 3 Nov 93 16:57:01 -0800
% Received: by nsl.pa.dec.com; id AA13881; Wed, 3 Nov 93 16:57:01 -0800
% Message-Id: <9311040057.AA13881@nsl.pa.dec.com>
% To: nsl::ip-managers
% Cc: nsl::vigeant
% Subject: Internet Mail Gateway
% Date: Wed, 03 Nov 93 16:57:01 -0800
% From: Wayne Vigeant <vigeant>
% X-Mts: smtp

    so if I am sending from Nashua, NH area, I would type "nashuarmc:
    
    confused_C
    

    i'm confused...  i don't use DECWRL and more to send mail out of
    digital...  i use CRL...  i can continue to mail that way correct?
    or should i be using US1MRC now???
    
    					da ve

No, use US2RMC, Carol. And have a happy birthday!

    nm%crl::"address@bla.foo.bar" also works, but they probably wouldn't
    encourage using it... ;-)
    

Whoa!  Major notes colllision!!!!

;-)

The diff between CRL or DECPA or others and those listed in my reply, is
that these are not "supported", i.e. CRL's "owners" are being "nice" in
letting you send mail through it. US1RMC, and those ilk, on the other hand,
are being funded by the corporation for the explicit use as mail forwarding
cpu's. 

Date:	 9-NOV-1993 13:05:14.61
From:	DECSIM::SHRIVER      "emiLY is an adverb. DTN.225-5140"
Subj:	FWD+: I have been informed that HLO should use CRL as our Internet Mail GATEWAY.
To:	rock::fromm
CC:	

FYI - here's what our system manager forwarded to us on the topic...  -emily-

------------------Forwarded item dated 4-NOV-1993 13:19:46.02------------------

From:	CADSYS::VANNOY "Derrick J. Vannoy 225-7116 HL02-2/B10  04-Nov-1993 1316 -0400"
To:	@CAD$DIS:SEGCAD.DIS
CC:	DEB,JON
Subj:	I have been informed that HLO should use CRL as our Internet Mail GATEWAY.


             <<< UPSAR::USER$411:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GATEWAYS.NOTE;4 >>>
              -< Gateways between the EASYnet and other networks >-
================================================================================
Note 1988.28                      DECWRL status                         28 of 30
10610::VIGEANT "Wayne Vigeant DTN 543-1380"          44 lines   2-NOV-1993 14:04
                      -< Latest DECnet area to RMC table >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        DECnet areas and RMCs
        ---------------------
    
        US1RMC             US2RMC             US3RMC             VBORMC
        ======             ======             ======             ======
         4 LKG Campus       2 MKO Campus       7 MRO Campus       1 EUR
         5 PKO Campus       3 MKO Campus      11 MRO Campus      40 EUR
         9 LKG Campus      15 Salem N.H.      18 MRO Campus      41 EUR
        12 LKG Campus      17 Salem N.H.      21 MRO Campus      42 EUR
        20 AKO             19 MKO Campus      23 South Central   43 EUR
        22 APA             31 MKO Campus      27 MRO Campus      44 EUR
        24 PKO Campus      39 Salem N.H       38 MRO Campus      46 EUR
        25 PKO Campus                                            47 EUR
        29 LKG Campus                                            48 EUR
        32 Eastern States                                        49 EUR
        33 South Central                                         50 EUR
        34 South Central                                         51 EUR
        35 CNS/East                                              52 EUR
        55 LKG Campus
        56 PKO Campus
        57 APA
        59 APA
    
        DECWRL             DECPA              CRL       DECUAC
        ======             =====              ===       ======
        13 Lat's            8 Western States   6 HLO    36 South Central
        14                 10 Palo Alto       37 HLO
        26                 16 Western States
        45 Opennet         28 Western States
        53                 30 Western States
        54
        60 Hidden Areas
    
    
        JRDMAX
        ======
        58 APA (Japan)
    
    
        NOTES
        -----
        1. areas 14, 26, 53, 54 are on the free list at this time

Is my 'outside' enet address:

	belkin@wedoit.dec.com

OR

	belkin@wedoit.enet.dec.com


I must know ASAP!


ths, Josh

<<< Note 35.139 by PONDA::NOKNOK::BELKIN "the slow one now will later be fast" >>>
                      -< whats my proper address (again) >-


either one works mon!

try it out by sending a msg to yerself.

>either one works mon!

but i think the ".enet" is more reliable (at least it is for me)

- rich

    
    I agree it's definately more reliable with the .enet
    and to make it even stranger - outside mail gets to me the best like
    this: phyllis@terapn.ENET.dec.com
    
    (with ENET in caps)
    
    biiyni..
    
    
    
    

TRAITOR!!

    
    :-)
    
    

thanks everyone, I'm going with the .enet

josh

    
    
Forwarded from the well...the following words are from Blair
Jackson.

 January 10
 
 Howdy!
 
 
 A lot of people are starting to ask me about what's up with the 1994 Golden
 Road, so I guess it's time to come clean and officially announce this:  I'm
 not planning to do a Golden Road for '94.  I've been agonizing over this for
 months, knowing that having our second baby would make it difficult to find
 the time and energy required to make the GR the best it could be, but
 secretly hoping that, "Ah, *I* can pull it off."  Well, now that I'm five
 weeks into Parenthood 2, I know that I *can't* pull it off this time.  It's
 been an exhausting (and exciting) time, but between having to deal with a
 new baby, the (increased) demands of our highly energetic three-year-old
 son, Kyle, and living in a house that's undergoing a serious remodel to make
 room for Hayley (we're currently sleeping in our dining room!), I just can't
 envision being able to put out a Golden Road in the foreseeable future.  You
 long-time GR readers will recall that we timed our first "retirement" to
 coincide with Kyle's birth.  So at the risk of being labeled the Elton John
 of Magazines, we're "retiring" again.
 
 I know this is very disappointing news to a lot of you;  I really do feel
 like I'm letting people down.  But lord knows I'm no superman, and if I did
 a half-assed job you (and I) would know it.  How about '95?  Don't ask.
 Since about issue 3 back in '84 I've been wrestling with myself over whether
 I want to do a magazine at all, because it really is a pain in the ass on so
 many levels, and the last issue, with the Pigpen retrospective and all,
 really wiped me out to the max for some reason.  Still, as I take my brisk
 morning walks around Lake Merritt, headphones blasting whatever latest tape
 has come my way (I've been wading through all six '93 Boston Garden shows -
 excellent!), I find myself unconsciously conceptualizing what I might want
 to do for a 30th anniversary of the Dead issue in '95, even wondering if it
 might be better to do it in three parts instead of a single annual!  Now
 that's masochism in action!  Then again, there's a lot to be said for doing
 nothing!  Wow, "Is this love, baby, or is it con-fuuuuuuusion?"  (thank you,
 Jimi).
 
 In the meantime, to satisfy my writing jones, I've been working some with
 John Dwork and Sally Mulvey at Dupree's Diamond News.  I wrote some show
 reports for the mag last summer and fall, and now they've been nice enough
 to allow me to do a somewhat abbreviated version of my traditional year-end
 review for the next issue, which will be out in February.  I also plan to
 write features for them, and I'm in the planning stages for a column of
 sorts where I'll get to riff on some of my GD-related thoughts.  I can
 already hear a lot of you Golden Road partisans (bless you all!) grumbling
 "Ahhh.  I dunno about Dupree's.  Grrr.  Gnash.  Gnash."  Hey, I feel that
 way sometimes too.  Obviously it's a different animal than the Golden Road,
 but I think John and Sally do good work in general, and it certainly is
 better than Relix on every level.  Their intentions are good - OK, John can
 be a little preachy;  something I've also been (rightly) accused of through
 the years - and their interviews are frequently outstanding.  I want to
 support quality in the Dead scene wherever I see it, and with the GR on ice,
 they have my endorsement.  Check it out if you haven't recently - great
 interview with Vince in the last ish.
 
 Anyway, that's the word from here for now.  Hope everybody has a great '94!
 We'll keep our mailing list together and when (and if) we rev up to do
 something again, we'll let you know!

Well, I assume that everyone except me is in Highgate today but I'll ask 
this anyway.  Can someone tell me how to address a mail message to a 
Compuserv account from Digital.  

I'm not sure how I would translate nnnnn,nnnn where n=number into 
user@account.comp.com

Thanks,

Geoff 

Like this:

        us1rmc::"nnnnn.nnnn@CompuServe.COM"

i.e, use a period as a separator.

Watch out, though, each message you send your friend he/she gets charged for.

Thanks Fog,

I got the answer from the Gateways notes conference.  I figured everyone 
was in Highgate.  Actually the GATEWAYS conference said that there are no 
additional charges to the Compuserve user other than their normal charges.

Geoff

    The info you got from GATEWAYS is, I believe, correct, Geoff. 
    CompuServe members get charged for outgoing mail to the internet, but
    I don't believe that there is a charge for incoming mail.
    
    tms_also_not_at_highgate_and_reachable_at_73211.516@compuserve.com

Sorry for the mistake. I think Compuserve _wanted_ to charge senders for 
incoming mail at one point, or something like that.

>    The info you got from GATEWAYS is, I believe, correct, Geoff. 
>    CompuServe members get charged for outgoing mail to the internet, but
>    I don't believe that there is a charge for incoming mail.

i thought they were charged for incoming mail too.  i think i remember people
(with compuserve accounts) commenting on the PhishNet that they were
unsubscribing because they couldn't afford to continue to receive the Digest.

- rich

    howdy,

Hey, I'm thinking about getting connected electronically at 
home.  Does anyone have suggestions as to what service I should
join?
  I have a Macintosh at home, does that matter? 

  What modem is suggested?  Does anyone know any phone numbers
I can call?   Compuserve, Prodigy?  What should a deadhead like
myself be connected to for concert info, tape trades, pleasant
discussion like we all have here, and talking to you fabulous
people from home!

Steve

re:                    <<< Note 35.153 by POWDML::PENTLICKI >>>
                              -< Help On The Way >-

>  What modem is suggested?  Does anyone know any phone numbers
>I can call?   Compuserve, Prodigy?  What should a deadhead like
>myself be connected to for concert info, tape trades, pleasant
>discussion like we all have here, and talking to you fabulous
>people from home!

I'd suggest looking into The Well.  They have several dead BBS's, and you
basically get a Unix account with full Internet access (ie. read
rec.music.gdead, etc.)  I have no idea what the charges are.  You can probably
make a local call into TYMNET/WATN and then connect to the Well.

I don't think Prodigy has any dead-type areas in it.  Compuserve might.

As for a modem, get the fastest you can afford!  I think 9600 baud modems are
pretty cheap now (I'm still in the dark ages with a 2400).

There's also "The World", which I think is just a Unix account with Internet
access.

adam

re: Well charges

Better than CI$/Prodigy, but not all that cheap either: $15/month + $2/hr
@9600bps and below (14,400bps is $4/hr I think).

Not cheap, but you do get full, real-time internet tools like FTP, IRC,
usenet, etc.  Not sure about WWW since it needs a front end on yer PC and
a high-data-rate connection (>9600) to be useful, IMO.  Only drawback is that
it's in Sausilito <sp?>, CA so local access may cost you an extra $2/hr (above
normal fees) for Sprintnet or similar local access numbers, 'cuz modemming LD
is big $.

And since it also gives you Unix, you can use ELM for email (nice!).  

Their "notes" conferences are the reason to sign up -- the user interface
isn't as pretty as VAXnotes (since it doesn't display whole screens at a
time), but it's pretty close and it's better than a other BBS/notes-like
interfaces I've seen (e.g. Genie).

There's a new startup called UltraNet in Marlboro MA that's run by a
recent-ex-DECcie (Geoff Schultz).  They've got a PC front end with PC-Mosaic
and a pile of other user-friendly interfaces (vs. character interface on the
Well).  Will be using SLIP and PPP, not normal modem protocoals from what I
gather.  Rates are CHEAP!!!  I'm thinkin about signing up, provided Geoff will
get IHHD runinng or make me a special exception about that no-Unix command
line policy.


- jeff

PS -- FYI, UltraNet info follows...


From:	CRL::"schultz@ultranet.com" "Geoffrey Schultz" 12-AUG-1994 18:55:08.54
To:	subpac::maggard
CC:	
Subj:	UltraNet Info

			UltraNet Communications, Inc.
		       910 Boston Post Road, Suite 220
			   Marlborough, MA  01752

			    (Office) 508-229-8400
			       or 800-763-8111
			     (FAX) 508-229-2375
			    (Modem) 508-229-8111

UltraNet Communications Inc. is dedicated to providing high quality, high 
speed Internet access at very affordable rates.  UltraNet is based in 
Marlboro, MA and provides service for the central Massachusetts area.   

UltraNet believes that connecting to the Internet should be made as easy as 
possible.  To acheive that goal, UltraNet has created a software kit which
is customized for your PC or MAC WHICH will allow it to directly connect to 
the Internet via a modem.  This allows you to use your friendly Windows or 
MAC interface to browse the Internet, instead of having to learn an 
(unfriendly) Unix command line interface or someones idea of a menu 
interface.  More information about the kit is provided later in this 
document.

In order to provide very high quality service, UltraNet utilizes state-of-
the-art, high quality, low cost communication and computer systems.  
UltraNet uses redundant 150 MHz Digital Alpha computer systems to provide 
compute power.  There's no need to worry about slow response times or 
system failures.  We have over 14 GB of high speed disk which is used for 
news, mail, and Mosiac page retention.  All of this is backed up nightly 
and is protected by mutiple layers of surge protectors and uninterruptable 
power supplies.

UltraNet is connected to the Internet via a 384,000 bps connection, with 
plans to move to T1 (1,544,000 bps) as our load increases.

UltraNet uses very high quality US Robotics modems running at 14,400 bps 
and 28,800 bps.  Unlike some other services, there's no additional surcharge 
for 28,800 bps access.  We guarantee a user to modem ratio of no more than 
10 to 1, which is much better than the national average.  This ratio should 
allow you to get a modem any time you dial in.  Dedicated dial-up lines 
are available for an additional startup charge.

UltraNet also provides access via ISDN at rate of 56,000 bps to 128,000 bps.  
For customers requiring high bandwidth, we can provide connectivity by frame 
relay or leased lines.  Contact us directly for pricing information, as it 
is location sensitive.

Customers purchasing dedicated dial-up, frame-relay, or leased line access
will receive a 24 hour emergency contact phone number.

UltraNet is a commercial Web server providing advertising for New England
based businesses.  We have extensive experience designing HyperText pages
for business use.  Let us show you how you can advertise your business on
the Internet for relatively little money.


* * * * * * * * * * * * *    P R I C I N G    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !    S P E C I A L    ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! ! ! ! ! !       Sign up during August and receive         ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! ! ! ! ! !   unlimited access for FREE for all of August   ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

In order to provide access at virtually any budget or usage rate, we have 
developed the following commercial and consumer rate schedule.  

		Cost            Hours           Addt'l
Plan            Month           Included        Hour

Low-End         $5                2             $2.50
Economy         $10               5             $2.00
Value           $20              14             $1.50
Heavy           $30              30             $1.00
Power User      $50             100             $0.50
Unlimited       $100            Unlimited       $0.00

Unlike our competitors, there are NO ACTIVATION FEES!  

One of the best things about our plan, is that the rate is self-adjusting.  
As you use more, your rate decreases.  As soon as you spend an amount 
equivalent to the next rate plan, your rate drops to that amount for 
additional hours.  For example, if you signed up for the $10 plan, and 
spent 15 hours on line, your first 10 hours would be billed at $2 per hour, 
and the next 5 hours would be billed at $1.50 per hour, etc.

Your maximum bill will be $100 no matter what plan you sign up for or how 
much time you use.

You may pay for your usage by having us bill your charge card on a monthly
basis.  Optionally, direct billing is available for an additional $2.00 per 
month which offsets our handling expenses.  

Save money!  Prepare 11 months will receive the 12'th month's plan for free.

		* * * * * Additional Fees * * * * * 

Dedicated line:  Startup fee = $250 for 14,400 bps and
			       $350 for 28,800 bps.

Domain name registration: One time setup fee of $25.00.

Multiple systems on a LAN:

	2-5   additional systems = $25 per system.
	6-10  additional systems = $20 per system.
	10+   Contact us with your requirements.


* * * * * * * * * * * *   S I G N - U P   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

It's easy to sign up with us.  One easy way is to dial our system at 
508-229-8111 (8 bits, 1 stop bit, no parity) and enter 

		       new

at the Login: prompt.  You'll be prompted for information about yourself, 
your computer system, and your modem.  You'll then get to pick which plan 
you want and how you want to be billed.  

Alternately you can call our office in Marlboro at 508-229-8400 and speak 
with one of our friendly represenatives.  For those not local to Marlboro, 
our 800 number is 800-763-8111.

Within a few days you'll get a package from us with information about your 
account, and if you selected it, a set of diskettes containing the Internet 
tools. Install it, and you'll be on your way!



* * * * * * * * I N T E R N E T   T O O L S   K I T  * * * * * * * * * * * 

As mentioned earlier, UltraNet provides an Internet Software Startup
kit which provides everything that you need to get started on the
Internet.  Note that some of the products included are shareware, and
you should reimburse the authors as described within the kit.

This kit includes the following shareware and freeware programs:

Mosaic -        Provides a point and click interface which will allow you 
		to easily peruse the information on 6,000,000+ computers on 
		the Internet.  UltraNet provides our own "home page" which 
		will greatly aid you in locating information.  We also 
		include all of the software necessary to display still 
		or motion video, or to play sound files.

Mail -          Allows you to send or receive electronic mail from around 
		the world at no additional cost.

News Reader -   Provides a very nice interface for reading the 6,000+ news 
		forums located on the Internet.  UltraNet provides a news 
		server which retains over 4 GB of news articles.

File Transfer - Also know as FTP.  This easy-to-use interface makes easy 
		work of transferring files between your machine and remote 
		systems.

Gopher -        An information retrieval system.  Mosaic provides a Gopher
		interface, but for those people who want a stand-alone 
		version, here it is!

SL/IP or PPP -  Communication software which allows your PC or MAC to 
		actually become a node on the Internet.  

TelNet -        A network terminal emulator which allows you to log into 
		remote computer systems.

Ping & HopCheck - Tools for the more technically inclined to check the 
		availability of remote systems and to trace the path to 
		remote systems.


* * * * * * * * * *  Training and Community Service  * * * * * * * * * * * * 
        

Ultranet holds semi-monthly user meetings at our facility to help users 
understand how to get the most out of the Internet.  These meetings
include demonstrations and hands-on activities.

UltraNet can provide installation and on-site training for customers.
Please contact us with your requirements.

UltraNet wants to work with local government and civic groups.  We will
provide free or very low cost access for your group.  Please call or stop
by to discuss how we can help our communities.

UltraNet has its own local news group which can be used to exchange
suggestions or gripes with the system adminsitrators.

                                             Geoffrey W. Schultz
                                             UltraNet Communications, Inc
                                             508-229-8400 (Office)
                                             508-229-2375 (Fax)   
                                             910 Boston Post Rd, Suite 220
                                             Marlboro, MA  01752

I think it's a bit hard to find 9600 baud modems these days.  Either it's
9600/2400 fax/modems or 14.4/14.4 fax modems.  Since the later can be found in
the realms of the low 100 dollars, I'd say go for it.  Bought one of these
for my dad recently, trying to get him online with at least 3 or his
sons, but he's, uh, how shall we say it, technically challenged?  Since
he has an Amiga (yeah, I convinced him to go that way, though now, he'd
probably be better off with a PC) I'm not sure how some of the standard
services (AOL, Compuserve) would handle it, but I'm thinking of setting
him up on Delphi, or something similar.  Oh yeah, I sent it off to him on
or shortly after Fathers Day, but it's going to have to wait till we visit
for Thanksgiving (they live in South Carolina these days) till he really 
gets hooked up.

PeterT

Wow!  Thanks for the information.  I now know something.
Before I knew nothing.  What's BBS, ELM and IRC?

Also, there is a short article in this month's Rolling
Stone about user access to digitized music on the info highway,
legal problems with that, and also the potential that there
may be a crackdown on users setting up music trades ('bootlegs')
on the internet.

Steve

> What's BBS, ELM and IRC?

BBS -- Bulletin Board Service.  Some are just text, a lot like VAXnotes.
Others are both text and binary files (programs) that you can download to your
local PC.

ELM -- elm is an e-mail program for unix systems that's rather easy to use
(one keystroke commands -- what a concept!).  screen-buffer driven: much,
much, MUCH better than the $#(%&(* we get with VMS.  What would be really nice
is if someone here wrote a VMS mail program that worked like notes (w/ screen
buffers) or <biting toungue> elm!

IRC -- Internet Relay Chat.  Real-time talk on the internet.  A lot like a CB
radio.  Different channels can be used, you can set your 'handle', lots of
people can talk at the same time (which can get confusing when more than 3
different conversations are using the same channel :-).


> Also, there is a short article in this month's Rolling Stone about user
> access to digitized music on the info highway, 

Some band (the Stones?) recently released a song only on the internet in
digitized form.  I think it was available for DL (download :-) on CI$
(aka CIS aka compuserve).

> legal problems with that and also the potential that there may be a
> crackdown on users setting up music trades ('bootlegs') on the internet.

BAH!  I'd really like to see them try.  In order for them to be able to make a
case, they have to demostrate that they've lost a significant amount of $$$ to
'bootlegging/pirating.'  No one individual with the exception of perhaps a
stealth taper, could ever be held responsible for damages greater than the
cost of a single (or 2-3 CD's).

But knowing the moronic behaviour of the rec. ind., they'll probably just pick
some poor college kid at random and take her/his tapedecks and computer away.
Then the EFF will come to the rescue (albeit years later and after many court
battles), and it'll be media fodder for two weeks to be followed by nothing
other than the story of Michael Jackson getting his new wife pregnant.

- jeff

>> legal problems with that and also the potential that there may be a
>> crackdown on users setting up music trades ('bootlegs') on the internet.

>BAH!  I'd really like to see them try.  In order for them to be able to make a
>case, they have to demostrate that they've lost a significant amount of $$$ to
>'bootlegging/pirating.'  No one individual with the exception of perhaps a
>stealth taper, could ever be held responsible for damages greater than the
>cost of a single (or 2-3 CD's).

Yeah, it only be worth it to pursue by the record industry to stop lost 
profits.  This would be the case where some fool was selling tapes of
bootlegs or allowed recordings over the internet.  By the way, copyright
infringement is a criminal offense and they can lock you up.  So, like 
jeff indicated they could crackdown on some poor soul to prove a point.
 The bummer that I see could happen is that the record industry could
pressure the network administrators to delete tape trade conversations 
and prohibit any further trading.  This sucks 'cause that'd be one
of my main activities, if I were connected.

Steve

re: net access

i'm perfectly happy with the net access i can get from my account at work.  if
i wasn't getting it for free from work or school i'd pay for it, but i don't
see the need to pay for it as long as i work for DEC.  what is it specifically
that you want to do that you can't do from your work account?  telnet and
irc are two things that come to my mind.

re: modems

go for 14.4k.  you can get 'em for less than $100.

- rich

I don't really think the net is really set up just yet to handle trading
of music or even significant downloading.  The Aerosmith song was/is a
test case, but for most users it takes an hour or more to download a 
song that lasts for a few minutes at most.  The bandwidth needed to 
encode musical information is pretty enormous.  With higher speed and
increased bandwith, it may get feasible, but we're talking about the days
when everyone has boxes that have direct fddi connections and disks that 
hold a few gigabytes.  Not unfeasible to us here in workstation land,
but pretty much out of the realm of Joe Average computer jock.

A few years, certainly in a few decades, yeah.  It will happen eventually
but its still a while off.

PeterT

    re earlier
    
    What is 'IHHD'?
    
    My internet link is via an outfit called Destek, primarily because they
    are the only provider in my local calling area (and they have some neat
    RF stuff coming later in the year).
    
    If you don't want to screw around getting SLIP and a full TCP/IP stack
    up and running, you may want to look into something like Netcom's
    "NetCruiser" which gives you a GUI front end into their network.  They
    provide the client software as a 'black box'. It gives you mail, ftp,
    news, http etc access but you are restricted to what clients they
    choose to offer. I've played with a few Windows stacks that provide
    SLIP/PPP and they all have warts. Plug-n-play networking isn't quite
    here (sometimes it is more like plug-n-pray). If you want something
    that you plug in and it works, these captive systems may be the way to
    go.
    
    Some providers are or will be offering GUI alternatives to shell
    accounts. World is planning to introduce one next month and some outfit
    in Woburn is offering free test accounts on their setup. Again, you are
    restricted to using clients they provide.
    
    Basically, these people are trying to keep costs low by reducing their
    service exposure. Accounts where you have to use software provided (at
    no cost to you) by the service provider tend to be cheaper.
    
    There is also an outfit offering a program that runs in a shell account
    and lets you run SLIP from your PC/Mac/whatever. Your PC is not on the
    net as an addressable entity; the agent you start from your shell
    account makes the TCP calls on your behalf. It does mean you can use
    whatever clients you wish via a (usually) cheaper shell account. No
    idea how well this works. (Linuxers can do this now with 'term').
    
    A real nethead is probably going to be running Linux or something
    similar anyway. It's fast, it's complex, it's dangerous. What more
    could you want :-)
    
    BTW, there is a http page describing most of the offerings in NE for
    internet access.
    
    Re modems... figure out how much you want to spend and get the fastest
    you can find. As has been mentioned, 14.4 is pretty cheap these days.
    As is often the case, buying the not quite the fastest available (i.e.
    14.4 instead of the newer 28.8) is better value for your dollar. If you
    use an external modem, you probably want to make sure your system uses
    16550A or AF UARTs.
    
    gary

re            <<< Note 35.162 by STAR::HUGHES "Samurai Couch Potato" >>>

>    If you don't want to screw around getting SLIP and a full TCP/IP stack

Whats a "stack"?  I know what a stack pointer is, in terms of low-level 
CPU programming.  Whats network interface software got to do with this?

>    choose to offer. I've played with a few Windows stacks that provide
>    SLIP/PPP and they all have warts. Plug-n-play networking isn't quite

"Windows stacks"?  SLIP?   PPP? 

thx, Josh

re: what's "IHHD"?

IHHD is called the "internet head to head daemon".  It's used to connect two
PC's via modem using the internet -- basically to avoid long-distance phone
charges.  Used for head-to-head gaming (Doom, Air Warrior, etc.).  Works
pretty well if you have a decent internet node, but some delays are always
gonna be there...

- jeff


PS -- Here's da info sheet on IHHD...

------snip-------

		Design of the Internet Head 2 Head Daemon

BACKGROUND

It is hard to find local players for many of todays PC multi-player
games which use serial ports for communications.  However, it is not
too hard to find them on the Internet looking for someone else who
shares their passion.  The idea behind the IHHD is to use this common
gathering media, the Internet, to facilitate the connection and play of
multi-player software over serial lines.

HOW IT WORKS

The basic idea is that a central switch (kind of like a phone switch)
be created which controls the linking of two players on the Internet
with each other.  A client program would act like your phone for
connecting to another player through the switch.

An example scenario would be something like the following:

	Jim, in Austin, TX, dials in to a local site providing Internet
	serives using his favorite terminal emulator software.

	John, in Hawaii, similarly dials in to his local site connected
	to the Internet.

	Both players start a "dialer" which connects them up to an
	IHHD switch.

	John browses through the directory and finds Jim.

	John "calls" Jim.

	Jim sees the call from John and accepts it.

	A connection between the two is now established.

	Both people exit their terminal emulators, start their
	multi-player software and begin to play.

That's basically it.  There's a lot more fluff to add on top to make
it friendly, but that's the basic concept.

PRELIMINARY DETAILS

The IHHD will use a client-server setup made up of a "dialer" client
and a switch daemon.  There will be three communication channels
which may all possibly be active at any given moment.  These
are PC <-> dialer, dialer <-> switch, and dialer <-> dialer.  The
following shows a temporal order of a possible communications over
these channels and some events associated with them:

dialer		switch		dialer	Event
		    			User X dials into internet box and
					  starts dialer.
		   <--------------	dialer "plugs" user into directory
					  service
					User Y dials into internet box and
					  starts dialer.
------------------>		   	dialer "plugs" user into directory
					  service
------------------>		   	User Y requests directory listing
<------------------		   	Listing sent
------------------>		   	User Y calls user X
		   -------------->	Ring user X
		   <--------------	User X accepts call
<----------------- -------------->	Connection data sent, dialers status
					  is now "busy".
					Players exit the comm. programs,
					start PC software and select direct
					connect (it's possible that simple
					Hayes modem message protocol could
					be faked here if necessary).
<-------------------------------->	PC software communcates directly
					  with other site.
		   <--------------	User X indicates onhook status (call
					  done) to switch
------------------>		   	User X indicates onhook status (call
					  done) to switch

First impressions are that the dialer <-> switch connection be a TCP
SOCK_STREAM connection and that the dialer <-> dialer connection be
a UDP DATAGRAM connection.

The SOCK_STREAM connection will allow for broken connection detection.
If a broken connection is detected, the remaining party will be notified
over the switch <-> dialer connection.

SWITCH STATE DIAGRAM

DIALER STATE DIAGRAM

IMPLEMENTATION SCHEDULE

1. Bare bones direct connect dialer.  Given address, connect to remote
   site and start data pass through.  This will test the feasability of
   the whole idea.  If we can't get enough throughput here, then we
   might as well call it off.

2. Switch implementation and dialer <-> switch communications.
   Bare bones for finding and connecting to another player.

3. Enhancements such as talk areas, competition stuff, etc.

re: Josh: SLIP? PPP?

SLIP -- stands for (I _think_) Serial Line Interface Protocol.
PPP --  stands for (I _think_) Point to Point Protocol.

Both methods are used by a PC/mac/whatever to make a direct link with the
internet through a modem.  You can become a 'virtual' internet node with these
things... FTP, Telnet, WWW, and all the other nifty internet stuff from your
PC at home, so you don't have to deal with Digital's slow networks :-)

Software like VTstar (a cool Digital product that's just bein' racked to the
secondary...) uses the SLIP/PPP protocols to do cool stuff like run a
session-like manager from home for multiple windows, etc. on your PC.  TONS
better than the ugly vt-100 emulation that comes with most comm programs which
never seems to ever work right!  :-)

LKG (home of VTstar I believe) has SLIP/PPP running on their dialin lines, and
they're currently experimenting with it in HLO and a few other places, FWIW.


- jeff_off_to_prod_the_HLO_network_gurus_to_get_PPP/SLIP_runnin'.

>Whats a "stack"?  I know what a stack pointer is, in terms of low-level 
>CPU programming.  Whats network interface software got to do with this?

Hey, what's this low-level CPU programming crack, anyhow? ;-)

A 'stack' in this context is geek-talk shorthand for protocol stack.
Modern protocols are designed on an onion-skin or 'stack' paradigm
in which concentric levels of protocol layers are 'stacked' on top
of each other to provide progressively higher levels of functionality.
Protocols like SLIP, PPP, (and CSMA/CD for that matter) provide the
interface (IF) level physical connection to the network.  Other
protocols rely on these underlying physical connections to implement
functions like end-to-end connections, routing, datagram or 
connection-oriented protocols and application protocols like SMTP
(for mail), FTP (for file transfer), SNMP (for network management)
and so on.  The list of higher level protocols, especially
applications protocols, is growing as more types of application
functions are conceived and implemented.  These examples are all
based on the TCP/IP Arpanet Reference Model (ARM), but the ISO
model has a similar, albeit different, approach to the same issues.

In other words, it's short for protocol stack. 

:-)

tim

    re 'stack'
    
    Tim nailed it. I thought I'd defined the term, but in rereading it I
    see that I forgot to do so, sorry.
    
    Windows network programming is converging on Winsock, a windows socket
    API modelled on Unix sockets. With this API you can use Winsock
    applications (Mail, ftp, mosaic, ...) over any protocol stack
    implementation that supports the Winsock API. Most do. I have been
    playing with a couple of freeware and commercial stacks over my SLIP
    link. They all have their problems, but so far Trumpet Winsock
    (freeware I believe) appears to be the best of the ones I've tried.
    
    gary

Here's another techno-weenie network question...

I have an MS-Access application that I need to send to someoneover the
net (like to their Compuserve account)  Can I do this with FTTP or sumthin???

Thanks,

Glenn

    If you have a Compu$erve account, you can attach the file to a mail
    message and send it that way. You'll probably want to 'zip' it first.
    
    gary

           <<< Note 35.169 by STAR::HUGHES "Samurai Couch Potato" >>>
>  
>    If you have a Compu$erve account, you can attach the file to a mail
>    message and send it that way. You'll probably want to 'zip' it first.
    
>    gary


Hey Gary,  can you do that with an executable?  just wondering.  Also
if you have gate-ftp you can go and put stuff out or get stuff in (only
you can do the putting and getting..).

bob

    Yup, you can mail executables in Compuserve. I didn't realize until I
    posted a note about an OS/2 problem I was having and IBM mailed me a
    beta driver to try out. It is attached to the message so that the
    system asks you for download info when you read it.
    
    BTW, my understanding of gate-ftp is that you can get, but you can't
    push without various extra permissions (I don't use that facility much,
    so the rules may have changed).
    
    gary

    You can mail executables all over the place, without any concern 
    about gateways as long as you have mail access.  UUencode, originally
    a unix routine, but available all over the place  , will change a
    binary file into an ascii file that is mailable.  Then you uudecode
    it on the other end.  The file grows in size somewhat, and can thus
    be fairly large depending on the executable, but then you just 
    cut it up and send a number of files.  That's the way executables
    and pictures are passed around on the internet.
    
    PeterT
    

I have a copy of a windows app, WinCode v2.2 which does both uuencoding and 
decoding. If anyone wants it, let me know.

Also, DECmailworks will automatically uuencode binary files (as well as 
graphics) when file is attached. (shameless plug for a fine Digital 
product)

jeff

    Well, yeah, if you or your mailer are willing to convert the file, you
    can mail anything. Compuserve does it pretty much automagically,
    similar to way Eudora handles it and, apparently, DECmailworks (hope
    you didn't pay a lot for that catchy name :-) ).
    
    FWIW, PGP is a pretty good tool for converting binary files to mailable
    ascii, even if you don't encrypt. It will split large files into
    digestable chunks, provides some degree of protection against
    corruption etc.
    
    gary

This is all well and fine if you have a clue -- but I don't....

There's obviously a plethora of options, which is only succeeding in confusing
me more.  And I still can't even successfully access Winnah:: to pick up some
zippers like Gary suggested offline that I try to do.... 

So which one of you techno-wizards is going to send me the files I need
(zippers/Uncoders/PGP's/DECmailworks/whatever) and a DCL command file that'll
prompt me for the files I want to send (like Node::disk:Access1.mdb, 
Node::disk:access2.mdb) and the address where I want to send them 
(like "Name@company.com","name2@company.com")... 

That isn't asking for too much, is it? ;^) ;^) ;^) 

Okay -- howzabout a pointer to the files that I can pull from a VMS
account by doing a $COPY/LOG node::disk:filename and a few simple instructions
like "After copying files to your account type: $@FormatFile filename and then
send files like you normally send mail to T!ng" -- is that a more reasonable
request? :^)

Thanks!!!!  :^)

Glennnn

>me more.  And I still can't even successfully access Winnah:: to pick up some
>zippers like Gary suggested offline that I try to do.... 

Well, thats cause WINNAH:: gets locked up tight during normal east coast
business hours.. I get in this sitution too (I need a PC tool and I need it
now dammit!) so I copy the files from the European "mirror" node, MUCCS1.

There is a 6300 block PC_FILE_LIST.TXT that lists EVERYTHING on
WINNAH, MUCCS1, Etc., and the access rules.  I got a pointer to it from
HUMANE::IBMPC_SHAREWARE notefile note 5.   You can get the file from:

HANNAH::DISK$LP1:[PUBLIC]PC_FILE_LIST.TXT;109   6367  22-SEP-1994 01:00:23.00

More PC software than you can shake a 1G drive at!

Josh

Well, none of the titles in this note say WWW, so I'll put the pointer here.

In my quest for real music, I've found the Grateful Dead archive on WWW (not
to mention NIN, Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam and tons of others!)


	http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/~ta/mtv/musicpages.html


Finally, me....who has an incredibly hard time remembering lyrics (let alone my
own name), has the entire list for many of my favorite bands, right at my
fingertips.....

Off to the Nine Inch Nails page.......

	kath

	kath,
	
	For Grateful stuff I use
	
http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/mleone/web/dead.html

	Jay

thought some people might find this of interest.  i have no affiliation with
the people marketing this product.

- rich

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
SPOTlight                                                            WEBster
                                                               Nov. 22, 1994

SlipKnot Offers WWW Sans SLIP, PPP or TCP/IP Access
by Dianna Husum, managing editor~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Peter Brooks wanted a less painful version of the popular Mosaic-type
browser. Sure Mosaic was powerful and opened up a whole new world of
information, but the reality was, there had to be an easier way.

  "I was struggling with the installation," Brooks said. "And I thought it
was terribly painful, especially from a dial-up account."

  So Brooks, a product developer and the president of Micromind of New York,
began researching how to create a graphical browser that did not need a
SLIP account. "I thought, this would open up the Web to a wide number of
people, especially outside of the U.S. where there is vast interest but few
resources. This would be the next product."

ON THE ROAD TO A LESS PAINFUL BROWSER
  No stranger to the development arena, Brooks has seven other successful
computer products under his belt, including Run/C the world's first
interpreter for the C language, and OL2, a product to duplicate the
functionality of Sharp Electronics' Wizard Electronic Organizer on a desktop
computer.

  Unlike its contemporaries -- NCSA Enhanced Mosaic and NetScape -- SlipKnot
was specifically designed for Microsoft Windows users who have UNIX shell
accounts with service providers.

  "SlipKnot was created because there was no other alternative to accessing
the World Wide Web graphically if you did not have SLIP or PPP or TCP/IP
access," Brooks explained. "Having analyzed Mosaic and some of its
competitors, I concluded that all of these browsers were designed for people
with very rapid communications channels into the Internet, not modem users.
Even if you have SLIP access, most of these browsers do not allow you to save
entire documents (with the included pictures), forcing you to retrieve the
documents again whenever you wish to take a full look at them. It takes a
while to retrieve any document by modem with any browser, and you shouldn't
have to do this more than once."

SLIPKNOT FEATURES
  Features built into SlipKnot include a terminal window which allows access
into the UNIX shell session at any time, so users can use mail, news readers
and other operations. SlipKnot allows a "one-button" switch into its Web
browser function, retrieving WWW documents in full graphical form.

  As many as five documents can be visible simultaneously, and SlipKnot keeps
a cache on disk of all retrieved documents. As an added benefit, document
retrieval occurs in the background, and requests are queued automatically,
allowing multiple requests with minimal waiting. SlipKnot also downloads
files via anonymous FTP in the background.

  Full documents including links and embedded pictures can be saved into
designated folders. SlipKnot's Web renderer displays any document on your
disk. This, Brooks explained, is especially helpful when you want to give
offline demonstrations using information from the WWW. "I am now getting alot
of mail from people in elementary and middle schools asking about this
capability," he added.

  There are some limitations to the SlipKnot browser. It does not support
fill-in forms. It recognizes the HTML-1 specification while forms support
requires HTML-2. Micromind is working on this.

  Likewise, SlipKnot does not yet support authentication. It retrieves
documents automatically via HTTP or FTP only, not Mailto, Gopher or WAIS.

  Those used to running NCSA Mosiac or Netscape may find that SlipKnot runs
20 to 30 percent slower than SLIP browsers. According to Felix Kramer,
Micromind's marketing director, this is a consequence of the additional steps
SlipKnot needs to retrieve documents. But, he adds, you can retrieve in the
background and keep up to five windows open so the "psychological time" is
actually less. Brooks said he is working on a "compression on the fly"
mechanism that will increase retrieval time in future versions of SlipKnot.

  "We have a small lifetime worth of work in terms of features to include in
the product," Brooks confided. "We will continue to improve it as time goes
on."

GETTING SLIPKNOT
   SlipKnot is now available via anonymous FTP at
<ftp://oak.oakland.edu/SimTel/win3/internet/slnot100.zip> and
<ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/pbrooks/slipknot/slnot100.zip>
Additional information can be obtained by pointing your browser to
Micromind's home page at <http://interport.net/~pbrooks/slipknot.html> or
sending e-mail to <slipknot@pipeline.com>.

  The program will be published as restricted shareware. Users will have
approximately three months to evaluate the product before the evaluation
period expires and registration is required.

  Upon launching and quitting, users will see a message encouraging them to
register. "After they have displayed more than 200 documents," Kramer said,
"we figure they are real users (and are no longer just evaluating the
software), and the reminder message changes to say that after 300 documents
(at typical usage, probably two to three months), we will give users 30 days
to register, and another 21 days if they start the registration process by
filling out the form and printing or saving it.

  "After the evaluation period elapses (probably three to five months
altogether), SlipKnot Web will no longer be accessible. Of course, as soon
as users register and receive and install the registration number we send
out, SlipKnot will be back in business."

  Registration will be $29.95 for users in the United States, Japan and
Western Europe, and $20 for individuals elsewhere. Ten percent of SlipKnot's
registration fees will be donated to refugee relief organizations.

  Brooks' family escaped from Hungary in 1956 during the revolution, and he
said he has always felt gratitude toward the refugee organizations that
housed and assisted his family during that time.

  SlipKnot runs in a Microsoft Windows 3.1 or higher or a Windows for
Workgroups environment. It has not yet been tested with Windows NT or OS/2.
You must also have a UNIX dial-up account with shell access and write
permission to your UNIX home directory.

  At least 4 MB of RAM is required, 8 MB is recommended. SlipKnot takes
approximately 1.5 MB of available hard disk space so 2 MB is recommended.

  Those running on a UNIX system require a shell account with Internet access
with either lynx or www and uploading and downloading of files via Xmodem or
Ymodem and anonymous FTP capability.
------- end -------

    from the real dumb qustion file.....
    
    do you need to have a PC do access WWW ?

> do you need to have a PC do access WWW ?

nope.  You can access the WWW through just about any platform (VMS, Unix, PC,
Mac, ...).

You must have a browser (Mosaic, Netscape, the Slipknot thing, etc.) in order
to properly send and receive requests for WWW information.

There is a version of Mosaic for just about every platform.  Netscape runs on
PCs and Unix (Alpha OSF is okay, but VAX/VMS/Ultrix isn't).  This Slipknot
thing requires you to have an internet service provider who offers unix shell
accounts and NOT SLIP as part of their service.

If you do the PC_at_home/SLIP thing, then get Netscape.  Much better than
Mosaic for lower bit-rate links like 14.4kbps modem.

- jeff_aka_jgm@dori.ultranet.com

	[SLAP]
	
	

	:-)
	
	no. any terminal that'll run x-sessions.
	but UCX must be installed on the vax.

    
    re- Chris
    
    no, not at all!
    
    Workstation is the way to go on the WWW, although there are some
    PC products around....one of em I tried and it was almost impossible to 
    get all the crapola set up just so....

>This Slipknot
>thing requires you to have an internet service provider who offers unix shell
>accounts and NOT SLIP as part of their service.

>If you do the PC_at_home/SLIP thing, then get Netscape.  Much better than
>Mosaic for lower bit-rate links like 14.4kbps modem.

but for the typical user who doesn't get everything for free from either work
or school, isn't getting a SLIP line very expensive, while basic internet
access is rather cheap?

- rich

> Workstation is the way to go on the WWW, 

Yup.  Your workstation at work is connected to the internet with a 1e6 or so
bit per second line.  A PC at home will have a 5e4 bit per second line (28.8k
compressed) maximum, more like 2e4 (14.4k compressed) for average folks like
me.  Needless to say, those fancy graphic-laiden WWW pages might take 3
seconds to download to your workstation might take 30 on your PC.  

This is why Netscape is so much better than Mosaic on a PC -- it lets you read
what's already in while it's downloading the rest vs. waiting until the last
bit is in before displaying anything.  It's actually smart enough to figure
out what's text and what's graphics so you can skip about without having to
wait for all the graphics to D/L for each URL you get.  This makes all the
difference in the www.

> one of em I tried and it was almost impossible to get all the crapola set up
> just so....

Ultranet (in Marlboro) has a nice package of pre-configured Windows
freeware/shareware that they offer for $2 (cost of 2 floppy disks).  They put
all of your info (IP address, name servers, etc.) on the disks for you so when
you install it (one mouse double-click) you only have to type in your userid
and password.  

Now, if I can just find a telnet/modem-spoofer to run in between a DOS SLIP
stack and a DOS terminal type application, I'll be all set.

- jeff

    I have a laptop at home that operates strictly on floppy (DOS 3) with 
    very low screen technology....
    
    Is there a way I could utilize the little bugger to access a network
    (aol or whatevah) with such low technology?????

    ouch !
    
    OK, I guess I gotta look into this WWW stuff, more rilly stupid
    question will follow (you have been warned !)
    
    
    thanks
    
    Chris

    !palS
    
    You don't absolutely need a peecee or workstation. There are character
    mode only browsers (Lynx, for example) that you could use from a shell
    account. I found it fairly unintuitive to use though.
    
    In addition to SlipkNot, there is a package called TIA that does the
    same thing for peecees. And for Linux there is term. Netcom has their
    NetCruiser which appears to be similar in concept to Slipknot.. you are
    limited to using the apps supplied with the package.
    
    With full slip access you get to use whatever apps you can find that
    work. In the windows space, there is a de facto API called winsock that
    many people have coded to, and most TCP/IP products support.
    
    As an example of costs, a shell account of the world costs either $5/mo
    inc 2 hours connect time+$2/hr thereafter, or $20/mo inc 20 hours
    connect time+$1/hr thereafter.
    
    Slip accounts tend to run $1/hr or less depending on usage, usually
    with some monthly minimum. You will often pay a setup charge ($25-100)
    which generally covers some amount of handholding.
    
    FWIW, I ran up about 40 hours in the first month, setting up, testing,
    playing around. Most months I use about 25 hours (last month was
    another >40 hours, mostly due to cutting over to my own class C network
    and domain). It IS addictive though.
    
    Note also that Compu$erve and Prodigy are ramping up their internet
    access services, but expect to pay $8-10/hour to use them. The
    advantage is that you don't have to setup or install any apps other
    than WinCIM or whatever. They are all promising WWW access (i.e. they
    are running scared).
    
    You don't need a workstation, IMO. I find NetScape and WebExplorer/2
    more useable than Mosaic. Indeed, there are quite few 'point and click'
    versions of the popular net utilities for peecees and Macs. And if you
    prefer the Unix style interface, Linux makes a pretty good workstation
    out of a 486 and includes the usual networking goodies.
    
    gary
    
    p.s. re modem spoofing... if it helps there is such a package for
    windows that lets you define extra com 'devices' that make telnet
    calls.

> You don't absolutely need a peecee or workstation. There are character mode
> only browsers (Lynx, for example) that you could use from a shell account. I
> found it fairly unintuitive to use though.

Okay, true.  The VT420/scholar modem will work for a character cell shell
accout.  But you cannot get the pretty graphics with Lynx ... which, IMO, make
surfing the WWW fun.  Otherwise it's just a useful tool for searching for
information. :-)

> As an example of costs, a shell account of the world costs either $5/mo inc
> 2 hours connect time+$2/hr thereafter, or $20/mo inc 20 hours connect
> time+$1/hr thereafter.
    
> Slip accounts tend to run $1/hr or less depending on usage, usually with
> some monthly minimum. You will often pay a setup charge ($25-100) which
> generally covers some amount of handholding.

No setup charge at Ultranet.  ~$1/hr connect time when you add it up.  
    
> Note also that Compu$erve and Prodigy are ramping up their internet access
> services, but expect to pay $8-10/hour to use them. The advantage is that
> you don't have to setup or install any apps other than WinCIM or whatever.
> They are all promising WWW access (i.e. they are running scared).
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup.  They have so many users, that there is no way for them to support WWW
without setting up a terabyte of local disk space to act as WWW caches, plus
replacing all of their 4800/9600 baud modems with 14,400/28,800 modems and the
port servers to go with 'em.  That's *BIG* money that they ain't got.
    
> p.s. re modem spoofing... if it helps there is such a package for windows
> that lets you define extra com 'devices' that make telnet calls.

Yeah, I know about the "COMt" telnet modem port spoofer for Winsock.  Nice
tool, there isnt' a DOS version AFAIK.  IHHD is the same thing for unix.  I
want one for DOS, dammit! ;-)

Looks like I'm gonna have to write one.  The trick is to get it, and the SLIP
stacks, AND my DOS software (your favorite modem-game/program here) to all run
in DOS at the same time.  I'm not sure if its possible to cram the SLIP
stacks, telnet code, and modem<->telnet packetizers, *AND* Air Warrior (my
favorite modem game :-) all into DOS at the same time.  Depends on the size of
the modem (de)packetizer and com-port spoofer code I guess.  The only code
which I might have trouble getting is the com-port spoofer code -- I am
currently putting the sugar coating on my e-mail to 'em.  The rest is all
pretty much PD (Tattam, Knutson, et.al.).  

Putting it all together in a pretty package with scripts and menus will be the
tough part.  That, and getting myself set up with a reasonable C compiler/
debugger package.  Then I can go into the shareware business! :-)


- jeff_not_a_coder-type_
  but_willing_to_learn_
  if_he_can_have_fun_and_
  possibly_make_money_too_:-)

> but for the typical user who doesn't get everything for free from either
> work or school, isn't getting a SLIP line very expensive, while basic
> internet access is rather cheap?

Here are 6 things that most folks will want from the internet:
    0. Unix shell
    1. private email
    2. USENET news
    3. FAST ftp 
    4. FAST www
    5. Private discussion groups
    
Here's a short list of internet services (from memory with the help of the
SLIP URL) and what they give you as a direct link to your home computer --
check out any of the plethora of "how to surf the internet" books or
http://us.hlo.dec.com/~barber/SLIP/slip.html for more details.

provider    services    max baud rate   cost/month   hrs incl   cost/extra-hrs
--------    --------    -------------   ----------   --------   --------------
Digital     1,2,3*,5#   9600            $0              --      $0    

Ultranet    1,2,3,4     28.8            $5              2       $2.50
                                        $10             5       $2.00
                                        $20             14      $1.50
                                        $30             30      $1.00
                                        $50             100     $0.50
                                        $100            --      $0
                                        ($100 max/month, $0 startup)

T.I.A.C.    1,2,3,4     ?               $29             40      not allowed
                                        $49             300     not allowed

III         1,2,3,4     ?               $30             40      $0.50
                                        ($65 max/month, $25 startup)
            0           ?               $20             30      $0.50
                                        ($50 max/month, $20 startup)
            0           telnet          $15             --      $0

The Well    0,1,2,3*,5# 14,400          $15             0       $6
                        9600            $15             0       $4

Compuserve  1,2,3*,5#   9600           ~$30+            ?      ~$2+

AOL         1,2,3*,5#   9600           ~$20+            ?      ~$2+

Prodigy     1,2,3*,5#   9600           ~$20+            ?      ~$2+

Delphi      1,2,3*,5#   9600            $20             20      $2+
                                        $10             0      ~$2.50 (?)

Freenet     0?,1,2,3*   9600           ~$0.80           ?       ?

* Access will be VERY SLOW if even possible at all, subject matter limited (in
  general) to what's stored locally.  External reqests possible, but gatewayed
  to off hours (not processed real time).

# Private discussion groups are similar in genre to VMS notes (lots of
  different general categories, topics within categories, replies within
  topics) but unique to each provider, quality of contenet and user interface
  varies with provider.  Most aren't as nice or easy to use as character-cell
  notes, IMO.

Local dial up may also be a problem for folks like us out here in the Boonies
(near or outside of I-495).  You will often find yourself paying an extra
$2/hr fee to dialup via Sprintnet, or some other middle-modem service.  ISP's
like Ultranet in Marlboro are dialup only in Marlboro, so if you're more than
1 town away and don't have a measured circle calling plan it's not worth it.

TELNET is generally available at any SLIP service or unix shell account
serive, but generally not available at 'on-line' services (CI$, Delphi, AOL,
etc.) or here at Digital for security reasons.

Most SLIP type ISP's have one-time startup fees of $10-$30.  Ultranet is not
one of these, TIAC, III, and Destek are.  Not all SLIP ISP's will give you a
"put disk 1 in drive a: and type INSTALL" type of client software package
either.  In many cases you have to already own the client applications and be
able to recant 90% of the TCP/IP Frequently Asked Questions file in your sleep
before you can get anywhere.

As you can see, the only thing that is offered here at Digital and also at the
big on-line services are private discussion groups.  IMO, if you already have
notes, you don't need anything else in the same genre.

For most of us, we have to figure out what we can get from a pay-as-you-go
provider that we can't get at work, or through a dialup connection to work
from home.  For me, I only get VT220 character cell via dialup from home, and
data transfers (FTP) require me to run FTP at work, then use a zmodem program
to download stuff to home at ~800 bytes/second.  Charlie Don't Surf with VT220
emulation.  800 bytes/second won't get you very far via FTP, even if it IS
free.

Another point on Ultranet's score card: they use Alpha systems!

:-)

- jeff

	There's a newsletter called:
	
	       The Rapidly Changing Face of Computing, for 12/5/94
	      ----------------------------------------------------
       =====================================================================
       | SIGN  UP  to receive  this  newsletter  automatically through VTX |
       | PROFILE.  After identifying yourself, navigate through:   "Select |
       | Topics  of Interest" ->  "Newsletters, Publications & Tools",  -> |
       | "Worldwide  -  Electronic", ->  and look under "R"  for  "Rapidly |
       | Changing Face of Computing".                                      |
       =====================================================================

	Check it out. It often has articles on the WWW and pointers to
	more info. Send me mail for the current copy.
	
	Jay

Jeff, WTF is a "modem spoofer" ?????????????????????????????????????????????

-Josh

    re .192
    
    It is a driver that behaves externally like a COM port attached to a
    modem, but instead of talking to the hardware it makes telnet
    connections instead. You can, for example, use your favourite terminal
    emulator as a telnet client with this technique. Or programs that
    expect to communicate over COM ports can use telnet connections without
    code changes.
    
    re DOS comt
    
    Something like that does exist for OS/2 to allow virtual DOS machines
    to communicate over 'fake' COM ports, and since the network code is not
    in your address space you don't have memory problems. Of course, you
    have to run OS/2... 
    
    re compuserve et al
    
    I said they were running scared, but I don't count them out. Compuserve
    and Prodigy both have public web servers, and I gather that you can
    access Prodigy's services from the Internet (the web server asks for
    your ID if you try to touch any Prodigy provided services). C/s now has
    usenet and ftp access, and if they have to add 'terabytes of disk' to
    support www access, they will. IMO, they will be the shopping malls on
    the 'information superhighway'.
    
    They're not going to be an alternative to SLIP access for me, but for
    some folks they will be. 
    
    gary

re: DOS comt
    
> Something like that does exist for OS/2 to allow virtual DOS machines to
> communicate over 'fake' COM ports, and since the network code is not in your
> address space you don't have memory problems. Of course, you have to run
> OS/2... 

Hmmm.. Thanks.  I wanna use it to run a DOS app (Air Warrior) over a telnet
link.  COMt is out because Air Warrior (AW) won't multi-task in Windows -- it
takes over the system completely and halts the IP link, crashing Windows
completely upon exiting the DOS box.  I don't know a thing about OS/2, not to
mention if their DOS box support is good enuff.

Methinks I'll haveta write it myself.

As I see it the code has to do several things:
    1. Log into my local ISP via SLIP/CSLIP, support scripting of course. 
    2. Must present a TELNET interface to the local stacks, and
       initiate a TELNET connection to a remote site, also via script.
    3. At some point set up the drivers for a virtual modem interface and
       packetizing/depacketizing code, then call up the local software (AW).
    4. It must all run simultaneously with the Game in question (AW).  Which
       if I understand DOS correctly, means that it has to fit into upper/high
       memory with soundcard/mouse/memory/etc. drivers all crammed in there
       too.  SLIP stacks are only ~6k.  The telnet/com port emulator shouldn't
       need to be too big to do bare bones telnet.  AW needs like ~580k if I
       remember right.  That leaves me 30-40k for the com port kludge and
       modem<->packet translator if I can't get it to run in EMS along side
       AW.  

(1) has been done by everyone on God's grey Earth.  (2) has been done by
everyone else.  (3) has been done by COMt (virtual modem) and Knutson (IHHD,
packet translation), and (4) is the big unknown as far as I can tell.

I think a lot of folks would find such a thing useful -- 'cuz it seems that
there's a trend for the newer/smaller ISP's to offer straight SLIP/PPP
services and NOT allow unix shells or any remote software execution (due to
hardware/admin costs).  

I guess my next stop is the author of COMt to get clues about the modem
emulation stuff.  Maybe Tattam as well for a pared down slip dialer and
telnet.  

- jeff

>               <<< Note 35.194 by SUBPAC::MAGGARD "Integrate!" >>>
>                          -< may have to be DOS only >-

jeez, looks like you've made a complete conversion from anal-dat-head to
full-fledged computer geek

:^)

- rich

> jeez, looks like you've made a complete conversion from anal-dat-head to
> full-fledged computer geek

Clue number 2:

I sold one of my DAT decks to help pay for my computer 

:-)


- jeff

    That IS a clue :-)
    
    OS/2's VDM implementation is very good, better than that offered by NT
    (or Win95 from what I've read) to the point where you can load device
    drivers, service interrupts etc in DOS. IBM have been building VMs for
    decades; experience helps. The low memory footprint is around 30kb in
    the VDM (with TCP/IP loaded). I'd be happy to discuss it more with you
    offline, so we don't bore everyone else to death.
    
    The guy who wrote COMt is very good about responding to mail, requests
    for features etc. I bought his mail reader package (rfdmail).
    
    gary

someone move this to a better note if there is one, but the INTERNET keyword
got me here...

for on-line U.S. Gov. tax forms, 

  http://www.ustreas.gov/treasury/bureaus/irs/taxforms.html

Caveat WEBtor:

There's a small bug in the Adobe Acrobat Reader (or in my printer driver)
that causes Bezier curves to be improperly filled in and some other polygons
to be non-transparent.   The forms are still very printable, and this bug
didn't cause significantly trouble -- I'm sure the forms are still very safe
to file.

Unfortunately, you can't enter your tax info on the forms electronically.  You
have to print them out first.  Although there may be a way that I didn't see
to save them as bitmaps and then "paint" in the tax information.

Oh yeah one more thing... 

I strongly suggest NOT printing out the 84 page instruction book :-)
The reader is adequate for just reading the instructions.

- jeff_told_ya_I_was_a_PCgeek_:-)

    Well, you could get Acrobat to write out postscript, and edit that. I'd
    be more inclined to cut and paste (with scissors and glue) at that
    stage though.
    
    gary

    Personally, although I use a package to DO my taxes, I always
    hand-print the actual return. Don't want the IRS to know that I'm using
    electronic help... old superstition of mine 
    (My Dad is a retired tax accountant who gave me much wonderful
    taxadvice. He, on the other hand, used to always type his and his
    clients' forms. Take yer choice.)
    
    ...michael T. "Back_from_sunny_New_Mexico_with_a_NASSSTY_flu"Head

not eggzactly the right note, but close...

Taking a straw poll here.. Using Mosaic, VMS, running latest UCX, can't 
'get out' beyond the firewall for about the last week and a half.
I don't think I've picked up on any corporate problems like this in 
::INTERNET_TOOLS, but maybe I'm wrong... So, is anyone else able to get
out beyond the firewall now?   I can access inside-DEC home pages OK,
but always get that server error when trying anything external.

help!   Josh

    I have, but I damn near fell asleep waiting for the response.  Measured
    it in tens of minutes to load a home page from the real world.
    
    Digital knows networks.  Right.
    
    tim
    

Must be you...  I just connected to two different external WWW sites;
of course, I'm running xmosaic on OSF, not your VMS hack...

	-td

>Taking a straw poll here.. Using Mosaic, VMS, running latest UCX, can't 
>'get out' beyond the firewall for about the last week and a half.

i'm right now at:

Cool Site of the Day
http://www.infi.net/cool.html

alas, response times have been slow lately.

also, i don't use VMS Mosaic.  i use the ULTRIX version, because i've never
had very much luck getting outside of DEC from our VMS cluster.

i'd use Netscape if i had an OSF account.

- rich

re: slow net performance...

Y'all are using proxy servers, right?  (if so, then try a different one :-)


- jeff_just_chickin'_:-)

    VMS Hack?  A unix person calling VMS a hack?  Jeez...

	seems to be ok today, but I've had problems the last few days.
	
	I think todd was calling Xmosaic for VMS a hack?
	(I wish I had some of the toys in todd's office  ;-)

Whats a proxy server?  JeffM, I'll call you...
Josh

    I use netscape on top of OSF, and never have problems getting 
    outside.  A proxy server is, I believe, a relay server that 
    has external access to get past the firewall.  I think
    I'm using something like CRL-proxy-8080.  Well, that's probably
    some of the right terms but not in the correct order.  I'm
    working from home, so I can't call it up right now.  And I 
    forget exactly how to massage mosaic to do it write, though
    I could mention that it is involved in setting up the options
    portion of netscape.
    
    PeterT
    

I'm using the Palo Alto proxy server... and have the following logicals set in
my xmosaic-setup.com file (which is invoked before mosaic_24a_vax.exe):

$ Proxy_Server = "http://src-www.pa.dec.com:8080/"
$ define "http_proxy" "''Proxy_Server'"
$ define "ftp_proxy" "''Proxy_Server'"
$ define "gopher_proxy" "''Proxy_Server'"
$ define "news_proxy" "''Proxy_Server'"
$ define "wais_proxy" "''Proxy_Server'"


And this just in from the How_Did_They_Do_That_Department:

    Was anyone else impressed that Kevin Mitnick managed to fool both GTE's
    and Sprint's cellular exchanges, but also Matsumura's (sp?) computers into
    coughing up information by spoofing IP calls?

- jeff_wondering_how_ya_spoof_IP,
  _not_to_mention_cellular_phones!?

    If you know how little security there is in Cellular telephony, you'd
    never use a Cellphone, except perhaps to call a cab.  Kids could spoof
    cellular (and often do)...
    
    I hadn't heard the details of Mitnicks latest felony.  Any pointer to
    an article about it?
    
    tim
    

It's in the INTERNET_TOOLS notesfile...

- jeff

Nice article.  Thanks for cross-posting it.  I got a
kick out of the image of Shimomura sitting up 36 hours,
eating pizza...

>The Christmas attack exploited a flaw in the Internet's
>design by fooling a target computer into believing that
>a message was coming from a trusted source.
  
Uh...more likely a flaw in Unix' design, not the
Internet's design...(Anybody know specifically what
they're trying to reference here? Kerberos?)

hmm.

tim

    Sending out packets with someone else's address as the source address,
    confusing firewalls that don't check to make sure 'internal only'
    packets really do originate on the internal net. Any trusted
    relationship that depends upon source addresses is potentially
    vulnerable.
    
    gary

Not having the proxy logicals was my problem - thanks to Jeff M. for helping
out.  I'd been using an older version of the mosaic setup.com file that did
not have the proxy stuff.
I'm hangin' 10 now, dudes and dudettes... :-)
  Josh

>Sending out packets with someone else's address as the
>source address, confusing firewalls that don't check to
>make sure 'internal only' packets really do originate
>on the internal net. Any trusted relationship that
>depends upon source addresses is potentially vulnerable.
  
That's what I was wondering about...it's a whole lot
simpler to intercept some kind of authentication
transaction than to displace an existing TCP circuit
in_addr...it's more likely an application security hole -
and the Unix apps' are notorious for this, than an
"Internet design" bug...  Either way, I'm really curious
how he did it (of course, no one's going to publish it,
and compromise half the systems on the Internet...)

Of course, it could have been the same bug that
Morris(on) (?) used a couple years ago in his famous worm
program...a debug "feature" in the Unix mail
system...duh.  Did he ever go to jail, or did Dad get him
off the hook?

tim

    The CERT advisories had a fair amount of detail. I'll see if I can find
    a pointer. There is also a newsgroup that carries this kind of
    announcement (although I heard about this event on an outgoing feed to
    Asian Business News a good 12 hours before there was anything public on
    the net).
    
    Since this is not exactly a new form of attack they (CERT et al)
    discussed it at length. The other part of the attack which exploited
    some problem in Solaris to maintain a backdoor was not discussed in
    detail.
    
    Don't know what happened to Morris.
    
    gary

If I remember all of this right...

Morris exploited a bug in either SEND or FINGER ... if you flooded the
incoming buffer with too many characters, it bombed and left open a hook that
allowed you to issue commands to the _receiving_ system.  It was a un*x OS
level bug, something Morris figured out by studying the source code (his
father wrote some of it for AT&T).

Morris' worm would 'ping' a host and bomb it, then tell it to FTP the worm
code from the source and then run it on the host -> and the cycle repeated.
He got caught because his worm didn't properly check to see how many copies of
it were already running on the host computer ... and all the victim host
computers filled up with so many worm threads they ground to a halt.

I gave back the copy of _Cyberpunk_ which had the details of all of this, so I
can't check to see if I remember it right.

1/3 of _Cyberpunk_ is about Mitnick, 1/3 is about Morris, and 1/3 is about a
hacker in Europe called Pogo who got popped for selling VMS and other stolen
source code to the Soviets.

2/3 of the book deal with how these guys hacked VMS ... mostly via "social
engineering", but some of it via a hacked LOGINOUT.EXE that the European
"Chaos Computer Society" (sp?) somehow came up with.

I'm sure you can get much better info from INTERNET_TOOLS (vs. my shaky memory
of a non-fiction book), as some of the folks in there were the ones who were
operating the computer systems that these guys were hacking into several years
ago.


- jeff

***COOL WEB SITE ALERT***


http://voyager.paramount.com/

Geoff

    	Re: Morris
    
    	Send Lawyers, Guns and Money.
    	Dad, get me out of this......
    
    	Dad did.
    

I thought so.

Putz.

> Dad did.

I thought he got convicted of felony computer tampering... ...did they win on
appeal or something?


- jeff

>I thought he got convicted of felony computer tampering... ...did they win on
>appeal or something?

i think he was convicted, but i think he may have just gotten fines and
probation and not done any jail time.

i think that is probably justifiable, if you accept the premise that his
intent wasn't to do any harm (which isn't necessarily the truth, but is
what he claims).

- rich

    If I got drunk and drove my Bronco into the playground at a daycare
    center, I'd still go to jail.  Admittedly this is not the same scale of
    a crime, however, harmless intent is hardly an excuse for harmful
    consequences.  Considering this kid was eminently qualified to
    understand the potential scope and implications of his little
    experiment, he probably should have gotten more than a whack across the
    knuckles, IMHO...
    
    But, Mitnick is a whole different story...  I just hope the media and
    the Cyberkids don't mysticize his image into something more than the
    simple not-so-petty criminal that he really is.
    
    tim
    

>    But, Mitnick is a whole different story...

i agree.  the scope of mitnick's actions is definitely a lot worse than
anything that morris did.

- rich

    ....and what's so bad about 'rage against the machine'...this whole
    popsickle stand is about to melt before your eyes and you're worried about
    a hacker???
    
    i just view Mitnick as smart enough to thumb his nose at authority...
    he may not get away with it, but he didn't rape/murder any little girls 
    or siphone money out of the Social Security trust fund either...
    
    Dugo

    I talked to somebody at another firm that got hacked into by Mr.
    Mitnick.  Seems he stole very insignificant, valueless stuff -
    at least from them.  So it seems like being anti-authoritarian
    prolly drives him more than the thrill of material gain.

    Tom

    
    	Regarding Morris, my issue is that I, and a lot of my co-workers
    lost a weekend due to his "carelessness". I worked all day
    Saturday and Sunday, trying ti fix things he was breaking.
    
    	He never told me he was sorry.
    

[forwards deleted]

Hello there,
 
   Give me about two minutes of your time here for a very serious problem 
that is going to affect all of us.   I've spent the entire day reading 
through Senate Bill 314, the so-called "Communications Decency Act of 
1995", as well as hundreds of pages of reviews, commentaries, and 
impact analysis.  This bill is going to be attached to another 
communications regulation bill which is favored by many members of the 
Congress.  (The entire issue should come to discussion in early March!)
 
   Long story short, if you post anything "indecent or obscene" at any 
point on the Internet or on any BBSs after this Bill passes, you could be 
fined $100,000 and jailed up to two years.  Furthermore, whichever service 
transmits your message -- whether it is a university or a commercial 
provider -- will also be fined $100,000 PER DAY that the message is 
publicly accessible.
 
   For those that don't know this, the Internet itself is comprised of 
thousands of individually-owned networks all connected together.  For 
example, I am building my own small network with my own computers, and 
will then pay Netcom about $1,000 per month to have it connected to their 
network, which is in turn connected to other networks--- creating the 
Internet we all use.  When a message such as this one is sent out, it 
travels from network to network to network until it reaches its intended 
audience. UNDER S.314, EVERY PROVIDER TRANSMITTING AN OBSCENE OR INDECENT 
MESSAGE IS CRIMINALLY LIABLE.
 
   If this bill is passed, huge sections of the World Wide Web (WWW) will 
shut down almost immediately.   Usenet groups will be severely restricted, 
because anything "indecent", annoying, or harrassing--statements like "the 
Holocaust never happened" for example--could be illegal.  Most Net BBSs 
like ISCA or NAILS could cease to exist since live chats can't be censored.
American ftp sites will be strongly restricted, and access to foreign sites 
could be prohibited altogether.  And many providers will either screen each 
individual message for content, or more likely, simply close up shop and 
leave.  In the end, the Internet will be pratically worthless, compared to 
the vast resource it is now.
 
   And for those of you who enjoy Internet mailing lists, these lists will 
almost definitely end with the passage of this bill.  Why?  Because after 
the passage of this bill, anything potentially offensive to *anyone* 
reading a list will hold the author or list manager criminally liable.  
Most mailing lists on the Net are free, and probably can't afford the risk 
of publishing something offensive.
 
   I know a lot of the "petitions" going around are rather difficult to 
understand, and I hope this message makes things a little clearer, and make 
you understand why it is so important for you to ACT NOW.
 
      "Authority has always attracted the lowest elements in the human race.
    All through history, mankind has been bullied by scum.  Those who
    lord it over their fellows and toss commands in every direction and
    would boss the grass in the meadow about which way to bend in the wind
    are the most depraved kind of prostitutes.  They will submit to any
    indignity, perform any vile act, do anything to achieve power.  The
    worst off-sloughings of the planet are the ingredients of sovereignty.
    Every government is a parliament of whores.
       "The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us."
 
                                    --P.J. O'Rourke,
                                      Parliament of Whores
 
 
 
    (1) IF YOU OR YOUR FRIENDS OPPOSE THIS BILL...
            If you haven't already signed another petition floating
            around on the Internet now, then get as many names and
            addresses and email them to me at <stan@rain.org>.
            Please send me:
                     - your name
                     - your email address
                     - whether or not you are a US citizen
                         (Non-US citizens may still sign!)
            
                       
    (2) IF YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT S.314...
            Point your Web browser at http://www.wookie.net/~slowdog/
            or just write to me and ask for info.  I've got the text
            of the bill itself, as well as stuff from PCWEEK, Newsweek,
            a CNN transcript of debate on the bill, and various papers
            of analysis.  Yours for the asking.
               
    (3) FORWARD THIS TO *EVERYONE* YOU KNOW...
            Don't let the Internet go to hell while you sit by and
            watch.  Send this message to everyone you know so that they
            too can know about this threat to our freedom.  Chances are,
            they'll thank you for it.  And if they find it offensive?
            Well, at least that's not illegal... YET.
 
 
                John Stanforth Jacobs
                Editor, Moonlit Thoughts At Three A.M.
                


--

     ._,
  ___| |. ____  _ ___,
 / __|__|/  _ '\ '__ |  J. Stanforth Jacobs <stan@rain.org>
 \__ \ |_| (_\ | | | |  dynaSoft Technologies Inc.
 |___/___\___/_|_| |_|  P.O. Box 3486, Camarillo CA 93011

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Johnson - johnsond@teradyne.com - Back off man, I'm a Computer Scientist!

    I had the dubious pleasure of sifting through the aftermath of some of
    Mitnick's attacks. We had to manually verify the VMS master packs
    against a known, safe copy and verify that EVERY difference was the
    result of a known checkin. We went through fire drill twice as I
    recall. I don't recall that any unofficial changes were found, but like
    land mines, it costs the same to eliminate the possibility if there are
    none or 100. 
    
    Several coworkers found out that their mail was being systematically
    monitored which is unpleasant at best. I don't need to ask them what
    they think of "harmless exploration".
    
    The "Communications Decency Act" is pretty scary. Yet another grab
    for power by the feds. I'm really surprised that the likes of AT&T and
    MCI haven't been out fighting against this. You would think that they'd
    want to retain their common carrier status for internet traffic.
    
    gary

    so, the new DIGITAL commercial I saw this weekend, about how secure
    Digital security is, ends with "...just ask.." and shows some hardened
    criminal's mugshot. Who is the criminal? dosen't look like Mitnick.
    
    palmer, maybe? ;^)
    rfb

    according to DIGITAL notes, where one of the ad development folks
    occasionally writes, it's an actor...  not a real felon...
    
    					da ve

    i dunno....looked like someone i know.!!!!!   %^)
    
    rfb

    thinking further about the ad....sorta like the add philosphy the PFDFA
    uses, eh?  "this is the brain wave of a digital employee on Alpha"
    
                                   big--->;^)

A couple of web sites which may be of interest:

Great Woods http://www.ultranet.com/biz/tpc
New Hampshire http://www.plymouth.edu/new-hampshire/nh-homr.html
NH Home Brew  http://www.mscg.com/bfd/
NH-VT maps   
http://galaxy.einet.net/galaxy/Community/US-States/New-Hampshire.html 

    Culled from http://grateful.dead.net/special_events/index.html
    
    Special Events 
    
    Dead On The Net: December 10th Show
    
    We're grateful...and not dead yet. Thirty years after our first formal 
    show as "Grateful Dead" we'll emerge for a special show exclusively in 
    cyberspace:
    
    7 pm - 9 pm PST, December 10, 1995
    
    The show will feature Phil Lesh and possibly others chatting with you 
    live, and music from "100 Year Hall," "Dick's Picks III," and some 
    extra cool stuff that we'll keep a secret for now.
    
    To get this show, go (you need to download some software in advance) to 
    http://www.dead.net for all the information you need. But please note 
    that you can't download until November 20th.
    
    See you on th(sic) Web!
    
    P.S. We apologize for the delays in this announcement. When you want 
    to do it right, sometimes it takes more time than you expected. That 
    may even be true for the December 10th date -- but we promise it'll be 
    cool whenever we do it.
    
                   

    
    
    From: mark kraitchman <kraitch@eecs.berkeley.edu>
    Subject: Deadlist Computer Tool Community Project
    Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:03:30 -0800 (PST)
    
    Hi:
    
    I'd like to invite you all to consider joining a new mailing
    list devoted towards the deadlist computer tool community
    project.  To join this mailing list, send email to:
    
            majordomo@gdead.berkeley.edu
    
    with the following message (the subject is ignored):
    
            subscribe deadlists
    
    Cheers.
    
    P.S.  For info about this mailing list, send email to:
    
            majordomo@gdead.berkeley.edu
    
    with the following message (the subject is ignored):
    
            info deadlists
    
    ------------------------------