Conference mr1pst::music

    I'm a big fan of hers.  
    
    I've heard a joke that says that Mariah is "god's personal project".
    She's got everything: great voice, songwriting talent, good looks,
    youth, fame, fortune, etc.
    
    In fact, for awhile my personal name was "Mariah Carey's Fiance"  ;-)
    
    But seriously, I really love the two albums she's done.  She's a very
    complete singer - not only can she do all those incredible technical
    things, but she also puts more emotion into her vocals than any other
    female pop star I can think of.

    I was originally very enchanted with her; her first single "Vision of
    Love" knocked me out, I bought the album, said to myself "this is full
    of hit singles" which it proved to be, I did a basenote on her in the
    previous version of this file.
    
    She has remarkable skills. That said, she has always been on the edge
    of overly slick, to me, and has wandered over that border too much.
    Too much production, and what I heard of the second album, which had
    much fewer hits, too much in a certain groove.
    
    I also enjoyed her on Saturday Night Live way back when.....by the time
    she appeared on MTV Unplugged, that was turned into a major production
    as well, with about 40 people backing her up, or so it seemed.
    
    She is a commercial pro with a good voice; she reminds me a lot of
    Whitney Houston, and works similar musical turf. I think the excessive
    commercialism hurts them both, though both are undeniably quite
    talented.
    
    And, both will probably be on the scene for a long time. I don't expect
    artistic breakthroughs, or daring, from either one.
    
    -roger
    

    I too am a fan. Her vocals are a knock out. When my wife bought her
    first album I was floored. I opened the jacket to see who was behind
    this production. HER! Amazing talent. The few times I've seen her on the
    tube really convinced me that she is indeed as good as she seems on her
    records. Unplugged performance is good too.

    (Hi, rog, fancy meeting you here. Pssst, I was at Woodstock too.)

    a radio station in the Boston area (94.5) did a thing with her voice.
    They took all the times that she hits THAT REAL HIGH PITCH, ran them
    together and wanted to see if they could open a garage door with it. 
    
    A woman called in, took her cordless phone and boom box and went
    outside. The radio station played their tune and then you heard
    thegarage door open and the woman start laughing. Whether this really
    worked or not, I still found it rather funny
    
    
    Peg
    

    That IS funny, Peg. She can hit the notes and she has the dexterity in
    that range to actually sing up there, but I wish she wouldn't. It's a
    bit gimmicky. BTW, was this BCN? Sounds like something they'd do.

    --Ron

    
    
    
    Agreed - it's like a lot of technique-oriented things, her ultrasonics
    are impressive, but are tiring to listen to when overdone, which seems
    to be most of the time I hear her on VH-1.
    
    

    To me, it sounds worse than nails raked across a blackboard. 

    As much as I could do without it, I'd hardly call it screeching. She
    hit's them perfectly.

    Can anyone help with some Mariah trivia?  What was the tune she sang at
    last year's (I think) Grammies?  Slow burn gospel type number with
    a great, powerful climax.  I liked her singing on this, although at
    times it seemed the song really needed even more power than she could
    deliver; I remember wondering what Aretha would have done with it.
    
    /rick

    Re - her voice . . .
    
    	The only person in my household who reacts to her songs is my dog,
    Alberto.  He runs and hides under the bed, whimpering.
    
    						-Jimbo

    That's funny -- I do the same thing, and I don't even know your dog.

    
    Like others have said, I can appreciate Mariah's talent, however I'm
    really put off by her excursions into the high registers.  I find
    myself wanting to like her singing at times, then comes the high
    shrill vocals which cause me to immediately find something else to
    listen to.  If she could get over this or learn to control it more, 
    I think she'd be great. 
    
    Lv

    I like the high stuff.
    
    She has a great voice.
    
    I never met a dog that was a good music critic.
    
    

    Obviously, you have never heard the singing dogs version of Jingle
    Bells, which, IMHO, is easier to take than Mariah's screech.

    Tom --
    
    I really like the Yoko comparison

    Wasn't the the one-garage-opener-in-each-song also a trademark
    for the late, great Minnie Riperton? I once caught myself
    (under a sofa) wondering which of the two reaches the highest.
    
    Henrik  

    > "makes me long for Yoko"
    
    There is nothing in this universe that would make me long for Yoko.
    
    Listening to Yoko makes me long for death.

    >one-garage-opener-in-each-song

    I would really appreciate it if those of you who dislike Mariah Carey's
    high range would keep your complaints to yourself. I had thought that
    the emphasis of this notes file was on what people liked or appreciated
    about a particular artist, rather than to bash a particular artist.
    
    If I am mistaken, I will be quite happy to bash away at a wide variety
    of hard rock acts I consider essentially worthless, both heavy metal
    and grunge. I, for instance, heard a hilarious tape on the radio
    station that segued Axl Rose singing "Live or Let Die" with Ethel
    Merman singing "No Business Like Show Business", and I tell you, the
    vibratos of these two artists are acoustically identical. One of the
    funniest things I've ever heard on radio, and an association that I
    never would have made.
    
    Falsetto singing is an old tradition in soul music, in both men's and
    women's singing. Minnie Riperton was indeed the influence on Mariah
    Carey's high vocal stylings. Eddie Kendricks sings "The Girl's Alright
    With Me" and "Just My Imagination" for the Temptations entirely in
    falsetto. "My Girl" too, come to think of it. Many classics were/are
    done in the falsetto range.
    
    And, Mariah Carey doesn't use it in every song; you simply are not
    listening, obviously.
    
    So please, if you don't like her, keep it to yourself.
    
    Thanks.
    
    
    
    

    And keep your filthy innuendos off of Jayne Mansfield, too.
    
    "Lover Doll" Davis

    
    And while we're telling each other what to do, and imposing our own
    narrow little perceptions of what a notes file is all about: lay off of
    Yoko, please!  And cut Linda McCartney some slack - she can't help it
    if Daddy couldn't buy decent voice lessons!
    
    
    
    
    I certainly hope we're all smiling!  I am!  See ???   *8')
    
    

    re .20
    
    There's a slight difference (at least 2 octaves) between
    falsetto singing as a soul music tradition and the falsetto
    tricks we were discussing here.
    
    As for appreciation and understanding, I was reminded of Ravi Shankar's
    comment to the audience after the first applause during his set at the
    Concert for Bangladesh:
    
    "If you appreciate our tuning that much, I hope you will enjoy
    our music, too".

    
    ref: .22
    
    hi john, we met again. i thought you said that you didn't care for
    yoko's singing ?
    
    and i have always meant to ask, what is this marshmallow fire fighting ?
    
    lale
    
    ps: i know when i say this 
        i will be stepping on pins and needles
        but i don't like people 
        slagging her for breaking up the beatles
        i mean, if i was john and you were yoko, 
        i'd gladly give up musical genious
        just to have you
        for my very own personal venus
    
    		did you write these lyrics ? afterall your name is john.
    
    

    As I said, I personally would rather that she leave the high range stuff
    out, but I think I can only recall two songs that she does that in. So I
    don't know what everyone's so excited about. And besides, isn't she only
    like 20 years old. She'll mature a lot more musically and with the
    talent she has now that's saying a lot.

    re: screeching

    Axl Rose screeches. You have your terminolgy mixed up.

    --Ron

>    I don't see that we need to have one note where people say, "Oh her
>    range is marvelous.  I love the way she hits that high note," and a
>    completely separate note where other people say, "Well, her range is
>    technically impressive, but it makes my fillings hurt when she hits
>    that high note."
    
    That's because you haven't been in MUSIC long enough.
    
    I was the moderator when that policy was instituted (by popular
    demand).  We wanted it because people who like "uncool-to-like"
    artist found they couldn't hold a reasonable discussion.  The topics
    rapidly became filled with put-downs, ratholes, etc.  
    
    I mean, look at this topic and it's hardly a day old!
    
    I want to emphasize that my impression was that motivation was NOT
    to stop people from putting down artists, but rather to ALLOW people
    who appreciate a particular artist to conduct a reasonable topic.
    People who want to bash artists are perfectly able to do so, they
    just have to do it in a separate note.
    
    If you don't see the value in this, all I can think to do is ask
    you to put yourself in the situation where you like a particular
    artist, and want to have a conversation with other fans, but hordes
    of people chime in with "Why I hate ___" notes, and ridicule you
    for liking the artist, and such.
    
    If you can do that, I'd like to think you would understand why
    that policy is there.
    

    >    <<< Note 352.23 by OSLACT::HENRIKW "Good news is a bad omen" >>>
                             -< True or falsetto >-

    >re .20
    
    >There's a slight difference (at least 2 octaves) between
    >falsetto singing as a soul music tradition and the falsetto
    >tricks we were discussing here. 
    
    Falsetto singing for a soprano is going to be 2 octaves higher, and
    Minnie Ripperton was also in that range. No trick. Whether or not
    you like it is your own personal taste.
    
   
                                               

    Not in MUSIC long enough?  August 1988 (re)start date.  And I didn't
    like that policy then, either.
    

    > And I didn't like that policy then, either.
    
    Can/will you tell me why you don't like the policy Tom?

    OK, Tom has created a "Why I hate Mariah" topic (354).
    
    Let's move all the trashing to that topic and return this topic to
    being the "Mariah Carey" topic for fans.

Mariah's a godess.

    re - many back
    
    the radio station to do the garge opening trick was 94.5, JR in the
    morning....Wish I could have been there to see it!
    
    Peg

Yeah, I'm sure it actually worked.

    Does anyone have a garage door opener that makes an audible noise,
    no matter how high?
    
    This sounds like an apochryphal story to me.
    
    

    I *hope* there isn't anyone out there that actually believes that
    garage doors work that way. I once had an (almost) ultrasonic TV remote
    that had "chimes" in the transmitter. Nowadays, they're either RF or
    IR, & often modulated with "tone codes" so that one transmitter can
    only talk to one door.
    
    Anyway, I don't (yet) own any of MC's CDs, but she's on the list. I dod
    get to listen to one of them (probably the newer one) while busy with
    other things & people, & I recall that her visits to the ultra high
    falsetto range got a bit tedious. However, I attribute this mostly to
    the low grade sound system (a tape in a boom box) & other distractions.
    Basically, she has such amazing technique that I don't think the
    marketing/promotion people aren't equipped to cope. At her age & with
    that voice, she's got time to do just about anything she wants, & it'll
    sound great. Often people will "critique" a technically superior artist
    by resorting to such drivel as "good range, but lacks 'feeling'". This
    reminds me of the scene in Amadeus when the emperor commented on the
    young Motzart's playing by saying it had "too many notes". Mariah Carey
    is on the frontier of human vocal ability. If it sounds "wierd" to you,
    it probably means you're clouding your objectivity with expectations
    based on overexposure to more conventionally equipped performers. IMHO,
    neither Yoko (random non-specific screeching) nor Axl (cooked out ever
    since "Sweet Child of Mine") has enough skill, range or control left to
    be considered a vocalist.
    
    Paul
      
    
    (Is Minnie Ripperton "late" ?)

>    (Is Minnie Ripperton "late" ?)

Sadly, yes, for some time now...

Bob

    I was doing my grocery shopping and managed to catch a quick glance
    at the top line of "People" magazine and noticed a picture of Mariah.
    Then my world ended when I read the caption which was something like
    "exclusive photos of Mariah Carey's wedding".
    
    I'm bummed - I thought I was the only one for Mariah.  ;-)
    
    re: .37
    
    She's a talentless, unartistic musical freak show who oversings.  ;-)
    
    But one thing I agree with you on.
    
>    Often people will "critique" a technically superior artist
>    by resorting to such drivel as "good range, but lacks 'feeling'". 
    
    Yep, it's been said about all my favorites without exception (Keith
    Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Steve Morse, Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, etc.)
    
    There are some people that feel that, as an example, all speed is at
    the cost of "feeling".  As if speed is not one method (among many) to
    generate a particular kind of feeling.
    
    > This reminds me of the scene in Amadeus when the emperor commented on
    > the young Motzart's playing by saying it had "too many notes". 
    
    Steve Morse has had the same thing said of him so many times that he
    even titled a tune about it called "Tumeni Notes" (and boy, does that
    tune have a lot of notes!).

    I finally got Mariah Carey's CDs earlier this year.  What an amazing
    artist she is!  Of the 3 CDs out so far, "Emotions" is my favorite. 
    The songwriting is great - sort of like Motown updated for the 90s -
    and the singing is fabulous.  A song like "Can't Let Go" is one of
    those that seems to have been around forever and you can't believe it
    was just written a couple years ago.
    
    Her debut album is good, but neither the songwriting nor the
    performances are up to the consistent quality level of the second
    album.  For instance, some of the high notes on that album do feel
    gratuitous, while they always seem to be at the expressively right spot
    in the songs on "Emotions".  The "Unplugged" CD is OK, featuring some
    interesting alternate performances of the tunes on the first 2 CDs.

    That's interesting - I kinda like the first album for many of the
    reasons you gave for liking the second.
    
    I think the first album had more of a gospel flavor.  I'm a big fan
    of the gospel-in-pop-music trend of the last few years. 
    
    Examples:
    
    	o Man in the Mirror - Michael Jackson
    	o Coming Out of the Dark - Gloria Estefan
    	o Like a Prayer - Madonna
    	o Lots of Mariah Carey
    
    Actually, anyone with a burgeoning appreciation for gospel might want
    to check out an original broadway cast album that recently (and to
    my great surprise and pleasure) came out on CD.  It's a show called
    "Purlie" (adapted from "Purlie Victorius") and some of the gospel-ish
    singing on that is so powerful that it just grabs you like no other
    kind of music.

    I think Madonna's "Like A Prayer" was intentionally marketed as a
    "shocking sacreligious" piece of production. I didn't really start
    liking it til I heard it done by some guy with only an acoustic guitar
    as accompaniment. Now I like both versions, as long as I don't have
    flashbacks to her MTV video of it.
    
    RE .39: Eric Johnson ... no "feeling" There's a laugh. That guy can
    play *anything*. Steve Morse is another one that's perennially
    underappreciated. Look what Adrian Belew had to do to get
    recognition ... Ooooh Daddy ! 
    
    I also like Yingvie Malmsteen. Same story. His technique is so far out
    there that people can't relate.
    
    I'm hoping to net all 3 Mariah Carey CD's on my next binge. (I'll be
    looking for the stickers that say "promotional copy" ... ;-)
    
    Paul