Conference mr1pst::music

    From my post in the ELP mailing list:
    
    Date: 28 OCT 1991
    From: levin@steps1.enet.dec.com
    Subject: `Welcome Back My Friends...' CD
    
    I don't have the catalog, but I just spoke with Ken. He is selling
    Welcome
    Back My Friends for $38.00, however, he said there is a late-November
    American release scheduled for a list of about $27.00, which means he
    will
    be able to sell it for about $22.00, so people may want to wait. Of
    course,
    he'll sell it now for $38.00...
    
    I asked him about any ELP on the BBC Live releases and he said that ELP
    is
    one of the groups announced (there are about 300 discs being produced).
    So
    you *do* have something to look forward to...
    
    FYI - Gentle Giant, ELP, Jethro Tull, Fairport Convention, several
    Genesis and 
    many others on BBC Live - should be interesting.
    
    Here's the address [of the place referred to as having Welcome Back 
    above-ed.] :
    
    Progressive Records
    103 Decoto Road, Suite C
    Union City, CA 94587
    425-487-7888
    
    
    Suegene
    
    

    Rumor has it that ELP has reformed and will release an album in
    March called "No Surrender".
    
    This is from rec.music.cd (a usenet mailing list/digest).
    
    	db

    
    YES! There is a GOD!

    "Welcome back my friends"
    
    what great news, I hope there's a tour in the "works" too !!

    
    Let's hope the damn thing doesn't end up sounding like On the Beach,
    if it's really true (please, please, pretty please...)
    
    DFW

    >  Let's hope the damn thing doesn't end up sounding like On the
    > Beach,
    
    Assuming you're referring to "Love Beach", I would say "not a chance".
    
    Emerson felt so awful about that album that he wrote an APOLOGY for
    Keyboard magazine to publish.
    
    I think he blamed it on listening too much to producers who want to
    change the direction of the band.
    
    Anyway, I'm quite confident he's learned from the lessons of "Love
    Beach".
    
    I don't WANT a new direction.  Sometimes bands pull it off: I think Yes
    did with "Relayer" and "90125".  But I can't think of many other bands
    (Genesis maybe) that did it.
    
    I want "another 'Brain Salad Surgery'".  You will never hear me
    complain about them not trying new things.  I like the old things.

Beatles, Rolling Stones, Who, Bob Dylan, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Clash,
Elvis Costello . . .

My God, what if the reformed ELP sounds like ... Asia?

Wouldn't THAT be special.

    
    It won't. I saw Palmer at a drum clinic and he was practically
    embarassed by his work with them.

	Well, ELP are mentioned in the great woods schedule note,
	but I haven't heard anything else recently...

	Anyone?

	ScottR

    
    I asked over there, too, but does anyone know when tix for this go on
    sale?
    
    DFW

    re .12:
    
    Tickets for ELP's Great Woods show on July 29 go on sale this Saturday
    at Ticketmaster outlets and over the phone.  
    
    				- Paul

    
    New CD is 'Black Moon' (just bought it).
    
    I'll review it here tomorrow.
    
    Poul
    

    
    Wow, out already. Looking forward to the review!

	Heard it a couple of times last night, and must say, have
	mixed feelings about it. One problem is, the expectations
	are HIGH for a comeback from this legendary band, I always
	thought about them as the 'blue blood in rock', a state-of-
	the-art ensemble, with the word 'style' written allover
	their music...

	The first two songs leave me cold, Carl Palmer with a gated
	reverb on the snare drum makes me sick (you too, Brutus? ;^)..
	Keith Emerson, however, shows some well-recognizeable GRAND
	PIANO riffs and some good Hammond riffs as well.

	As it goes on, it becomes better. Some real melodic lines
	pop up, and there certainly are signs of the good old ELP
	sound here and there. One of the highlights for me is a
	GRAND PIANO solo (and it IS the REAL THING, not one of those
	da***d sampled thingies). This, gentlemen, is PURE CLASS.

	Keith Emerson's playing is great on this CD, without doubt.
	As a guitar player, with limited knowledge about keyboard
	playing, I trust only my ears, though.

	And now to the worst thing about this CD:

	Carl Palmer is NOT showing his abilities as a drummer. I know
	he can do it, but he chooses the 'Crash!Bang!' style, a style
	with no finesse, only go or no-go. I know this is a common thing
	in rock music today, and I hate it! :-( Some of his rolls also
	sound like one of those rythm composers..

	If only drummers today would understand that they put far more
	dynamics into the music with a varying beat!

	Poul

re: .-1

Uh, how was Greg Lake's playing?

    Anyone know of it's release date in US ??

    
    Not soon enough!
    
    DFW
    with tix for 7/29 at Great Woods

	re: .17:

	Greg Lake's playing sounds like on the old ELP recordings - he
	even keeps the same sound on his bass. Basic, but masterful
	playing. Then he plays some basic acoustic guitar as well -
	more on the common side.

	I think he is one of the few left, who still uses a pick on the
	bass (Mike Rutherford is another). I tend to like it, it gives
	a more distinct attack on the strings - however, it 'looks
	wrong', somehow...

	Poul

    The release date is June 9th.
    
    There is a CD single available now though.

    
    I caught an interview on the radio this morning with
    Carl Palmer....this guy is on cappachino in heavy doses,
    it was great...he rattled on and on, the announcer
    couldn't get a word in!
    
    Carl mentioned that they're using MACintosh computers
    to help produce the latest album.  He talked about
    what was contained in the lyrics from Black Moon,
    lots of environmental issues, and such.  ELP will be
    giving intimate concerts instead of the traditional
    *big* shows done in the 70's.  (I was there)!!  
    
    I had no idea this group had gotten back together,
    as someone mentioned earlier, There is a GOD.  I just
    wonder what ELP would have been like if the computer
    technology that's here now had arrived in the late 60's/70's.
    
    Now...to see if I can get tickets.
    
    Jeanne
    

	Is Lake singing like 'the good old days', ie lucky man, etc, or
	is he still doing the julio impression (ala 'Lend your love to me
	tonight') ?

	ScottR

    Will ELP be appearing in the Boston area anywhere other than Great
    Woods?
    
    -- Bill

    
    re .23:
    
    I think he sings like on 'Lucky Man' more than the later stuff you men-
    tioned (on 'Works'?). I also was very disappointed at that time, when
    he started crooning, I think it was the beginning of their downfall. I
    think he was trying to establish himself as some Frank Sinatra or what-
    ever..
    
    Poul
    

    The new album is out, it's called "Black Moon".
    
    Songs are:
    
    	1) Black Moon
    	2) Paper Blood
    	3) Affairs of the Heart
    	4) Romeo and Juliet
    	5) Farewell to Arms
    	6) Changing States
    	7) Burning Bridges
    	8) Closer to Home
    	9) Better Days
       10) Footprints in the Snow
    
    I'm currently on track 6 (which oddly enough REALLY sounds more like
    Triumvirate than Triumvirate sounds like ELP).
    
    My initial to the reaction is "hmmm... I'm probably going to like
    this".   It is a bit "overproduced" (lots of layers and stuff), but
    the basic music strikes me as being pretty good: not ELP at their
    finest, but far from their worst.  A lot of it sorta reminds me
    of "Pirates".
    
    And (thank god) he has brought back the Hammond.  No tune seems to be
    a predominantly Hammond tune (like the albums up to and including
    Brain Salad Surger); it's more like it comes in as a voice in a lot
    of tunes.  But it works.
    
    Anyway, I rarely like any progressive rock album on first listen, but
    this one definitely shows promise.

    Apparently ELP stopped by WBCN in Boston for an on-air interview on
    their way to pre-production rehearsals in Philadelphia.
    
    I was somewhat disssapointed by it.  For one thing, consistent with
    my overall impression of WBCN I found the interviewer, one of the DJ's
    I presume, "typical WBCN".  WBCN seems to promote their DJ's as
    celebreties, and seem to hire DJ's who have big egos.
    
    Anyway, stupid questions, lots of mindless silliness spurred on by
    the DJ/interviewer, etc.
    
    Sounded like Carl was enjoying all this, but from the tone of Keith
    and Greg's voice it seemed like they were asking themselves if this
    was a progressive radio station or a 70's style Disco station with
    those 70's "clown" DJs.
    
    Anyway interesting tidbits:
    
    	o They are planning to record another album
    
    	o "Lucky Man" was written when Greg was 12, and (as I had always
    	  suspected) was thrown together for the first album because they
    	  didn't have enough material.   
    
    	  Isn't it something that so often a groups biggest hits were
    	  "throwawys" and "fillers"????
    
    	o Keith is in the process of writing another piano concerto but
    	  it's not finished - sorta sounded like he was a bit stalled
    	  in the writing.
    
    	o Emerson gets a new keyboard sent to him a week by the various
          manufacturers!  Obviously there is no endorsement that carries
    	  more weight than Emerson's.   Hey Keith, if you aren't crazy
    	  about the new Kurzy K-2000, could you throw the one they sent
    	  you out my way?
    
    	o They expect to be on tour thru December
    
    	o The reunion came about when they were invited to do three songs
    	  for a soundtrack.  It just went on from there into a full album
    	  and now a tour.
    
    

    
    Hey Dave - good info! Another album, that's OK by me - this one is
    getting better every time I hear it...
    
    Poul
    

    I agree that this is a great album (ahh, CD)...I guess I expected
    something a little less "artistic" and a bit more on the "well, all
    those other bands re-united, why don't we"  and it is so much better
    than that horrible "Love Beach"   (which actually has a few good cuts)
    
    anyway, it's great to hear the 3 of them together again, Keith's
    playing is beautiful, I like the 2 instrumental trax...
    
    this will be a great show from the 5th row !!!

    
    Really!  Come'on July 29th!  I can't wait to see & hear
    these guys, last time I saw them at the Civic Center I
    was able to photograph them.  Gives you an idea of how
    long ago that was.
    
    Good info on the album and about "Lucky Man".  12 years
    old, amazing!  
    
    Jeanne
    

    Definitely psyched for July 29...
    
    if there are any other folks out there who happen to see ELP before
    July 29, please post a set-list and review if possible...
    

    
    They were on some syndicated show being broadcast on WZLX last night. 
    Greg Lake said that "Lucky Man" only made it on to the album because
    they were contracted for a certain number of tracks, and Keith Emerson
    said that the Moog solo at the end was just an experiement and that he
    didn't think anything of it at the time.  It was orginally supposed to
    go out with just acoustic guitar and drums.
    
    Funny how things work out.
    
    DFW

    
    
     I'll be seeing them July 25th at the Garden State Art Center. I heard
    Greg Lake added a few pounds, eh?.
    
    RichC
    

    didn't hear about Greg's waste line, but please post a set list/review
    if you could please...
    
    anyone seen the "Atlantic Years" 2 CD set ??  it looks pretty good, a
    compilation from all their earlier stuff, but I think they could have
    made it 3 discs
    
    Wes

    back from vaca for a few days, just in time to get PSYCHED for tonight
    at Great Woods !!!  Section 2 Row AA...
    
    Re.33   how was the 7/25 show ??

    Me Too!  Psyched!  This is my first visit to Great Woods,
    I've heard getting out of the parking lot takes hours.
    Anyone have any suggestions on where else to park.....I
    don't mind walking a mile or two!  
    
    Jeanne
    

    
    Are there directions to Great Woods in this notesfile?
    If not, could somebody...please?!!  Thanks,
    
    Jeanne
    p.s.  I'm coming from Nashua, NH
    

    RT 495 south to exit 11A. Can't miss it...
    
    /w

    Re: -1
    
    Thanks!
    

>>>    I've heard getting out of the parking lot takes hours.
>>>    Anyone have any suggestions on where else to park.....I
>>>    don't mind walking a mile or two!  

This is somewhat after the fact but...

Unless you know someone who lives in the area, you don't get a whole
lot of choice about where to park at GW. It usually comes down to left
vs. right and there's no way to predict which will get you out faster.
I've been stuck for hours on both sides.

There's only one way to get out quickly that works. During the last 
encore, get up and start heading for the exit. When the song ends, run 
to your car.

BTW, I thought they were very good but not close to the same as they 
were before they broke up. Emerson was amazingly sloppy on Stones of 
Years and Knife Edge. Lake's voice has lost a lot of range. He doesn't 
even try the really intense parts any more, a perfect example being 
his omission of the last verse of Pirates. That song, BTW, was one of 
the highlites of the show. Lucky Man, From the Beginning (acoustic
part only), Pictures at an Exhibition, and Fanfare for the Common
Man (the encore), and Emerson's solos were all excellent as well.

Barry

I thought they were great!  The "Pirate" song is one of their
best.  I did notice the change in Greg's voice, but in my
opinion he's still got it!  I was hoping they'd do the "Computer"
song. "I'm your Program....I am YOURSELF".  What
is the name of that song?!  I believe it's on Brain Salad Surgery.

I believe Keith Emerson is really Mozart re-born....just like
Mozart he does well playing instruments upside down.  What was
that switchboard set-up behind him?  Is that for show or is
it functional?  I was also wondering about his baby grand piano
that switches back and forth between piano/synthesizer.  Keith
has some fun toys!

Palmer looked great!  Sounded good too :>).  I thought the
concert was too short, I could have taken another hour of
ELP.  How about that thunder/rain storm?  I thought that added
to the excitement, Mad Hatter was so loud, you couldn't hear
the thunder, but you could feel the rain being blown into
the pavilion.

Jeanne
                                                     
p.s.  we got out of the parking lot in 20 minutes...not bad at all.

    I loved every minute of it...and fortunately, we had pavillion
    seats...however a lot of the people who had lawn seats got WBCN ticket
    upgrades, including one of my co-workers!
    
    Suegene

    Here's the set list as I remember, I have it written down at home, so
    please make the proper corrections...
    
    * Karnevil #9 1st Impression, Part 2  (AKA "Welcome Back My Friends)
    * Tarkus (not sure offhand the exact parts, but included Stones of
    Years) including Keith solo on exploding controller
    * Knife Edge
    * Paper Blood
    * Black Moon
    * Keith piano solo
    * Close to Home (Keith solo)
    * From The Beginning (Greg solo)
    * Affairs of the Heart
    * Romeo & Juliet
    * Lucky Man
    * Pirates
    * Pictures at an Exhibition (first few sections, Promenade etc...
    * Carl percussion solo
    * Pictures at an Exhibition (last few sections...
    ENCORES
    * Fanfare for the Common Man
    * America
    * Keith organ destruction
    
    that's probably off in a few spots, particularly what sections of
    Tarkus and Pictures they played. The Keith exploding controller is a
    device that he used in the old days (late 70's only ??) that he
    explains in detail in KEYBOARD magazine article June '92...check that
    out. It also explains the "wall" behind him, which is his OLD Moog
    modular synthesizer, from the good ol' patch-cord, buttons and knobs
    days. I'm not sure what piece they went into from "America" when Keith
    assaulted his organ (keyboard that is) but that was great to see him
    lying on the stage with the thing on top of him, as he was playing it
    upside down, running knives into it...great stuff !!
    
    I agree Greg was a little short on the high end of the vocals, but that
    was ok, and other than that, I thought they were great. They are
    playing Tuesday night at the Bushnell Auditorium ?? in Hartford, and if
    you missed Great Woods, DON't miss Hartford. I would like to see the
    show again. Pirates and Pictures were the highlights for me, and Romeo
    & Juliet was also very good. 
    
    It may not be a coincidence, but the set list was very representative
    of the material on the "ATlantic Years" 2 cd set that just came out,
    and there is even an ad for that set in the back of the program.
    
    Also, as mentioned in the liner notes to Black Moon, there will be a
    video history of ELP due out in September. Maybe those guys all over
    the stage with the cameras the other night were taping for that...
    
    Wes

The excerpt from Karn Evil 9 was just a short introduction. (We also
were hoping for a complete version but not expecting it.)

I'm not positive about the parts from Tarkus but I think it went:

	Eruption (partial) -> Stones of Years -> Iconoclast (partial)

I'm also not positive about which parts of Pictures at an Exhibition 
were missing. The Palmer drum solo is in of the Baba Yaga segments.

The encore was:

	Fanfare for the Common Man -> 
	America (from West Side Story) ->
	Rondo 69 -> Fanfare

Rondo 69 contained bits of some classical pieces. I'm pretty sure I 
heard Emerson play a few bars of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D-minor.

Barry

    FYI, ELP is going to on "Good Morning America" tommorrow morning.
    
    	db

    The interview on "Good Morning America" was boring.  Nothing new or
    interesting, no doubt the product of an interviewer who wasn't really
    familiar with the band.
    
    Greg did play "From the Beginning" (introduced as ELP's "first hit",
    which of course was "Lucky Man").
    
    Palmer looks great, Emerson looks older, Lake looks downright
    unhealthy (overweight, pale, etc.).
    
    	db

    RE: last    she really didn't do her homework, she actually introduced
    the song as "In The Beginning" ...give me a break

    
    Maybe *Charlie* should have done the interview.  
    
    So, ELP didn't say anything about another album?  I thought
    Palmer looked great too, when I saw him at Great Woods a
    few weeks back.  Greg reminded me of a young Johnny Cash,
    for some reason.  :>)  I think it was the way he was dressed.
    
    I recently purchased "The Atlantic Years".  Who is Sinfied?
    A lot of credits are given to this person.  

    Peter Sinfield used to write lyrics for Greg, back to the King Crimson
    days.
    
    How is "Atlantic Years" ??  do you have other older cd's by them, and
    is the remastering job worth picking it up, compared to just buying all
    the older un-remastered cd's ??

    
    When I first started listening to Atlantic Years, I thought
    ELP had gone back into the studio and re-did some of their
    stuff, that's how different it sounded to me.  I'm not sure
    what's involved with re-mastering, I can tell you it
    definately sounds improved as well as different. (and this
    is on cassette).
    
    My collection of ELP started with albums and 8-tracks, which
    haven't made it through the years in one piece, so Atlantic
    Years was worth the purchase for me.  The compilation is
    well done, Pirates, Knife-Edge, and Take a Pebble are a few
    of the good ones on this double  set.
    
    Jeanne
     

    
    I read in the Globe yesterday that ELP may be coming to
    the Orpheum this fall.
    
    Jeanne
    

    
    	I heard ELP has a new live CD comming out, WZLX is playing
    it tonight on the Tower CD Hour along with the new live Genesis
    plus a new live Deep Purple (old recording). 
    
    
    Vinny

    
    	I heard "Lucky Man" on the radio today, sounds excellent.
    The CD is live from The Royal Albert Hall, recent tour.
    
    
    Vinny

    Is the 'Wecome back my Friends' live CD available ? Has it ever
    been released ?
    
    There's one cut from it on 'The Atlantic Years' compilation, which
    is an excellent remastering example.
    
    - acp

    
    	re -1
    
    	It's available as a Japanese Import, look in Goldmine mag
    it's always in there for around $35.00. Not released in the US
    yet, I've heard it was supposed to but nothing yet.
    
    
    Vinny

    
    Thanks Vinny.
    
    - acp

    
    
     If Welcome Back... can be found as an import for $35 would someone
    please let me know. The cheapest I've seen it listed is $55. I'd con-
    sider it for maybe the lower price.
    
                                         mike
    

I got Welcome Back... from Rainbow CD in Nashua. It was a while ago 
but I think I paid about $45 for it.

I think it's worth the price. The smoking Karl Evil 9 is the best
I've ever heard and I have quite a few live tapes. The sound quality
is good. Not exactly 90's technology but quite enjoyable.

Barry

    
    Anyone going to see them this Friday at the Orpheum?
    If so, please let us know how the show was!  Thanks.
    
    Jeanne
    

    
    
     Well, as much as I would like to have it (Welcome...) $45 is still too
    high for me. I guess I'll be patient and hope for another release here
    in the US.
    
                 mike
    

    Strawberries in Shrewsbury has the new live CD...I didn't ask how much
    $$, or what's on it, but I'll check it out...anyone have it yet ??
    
    any news on the "history" video that was advertised as being released
    last September (in Black Moon liner notes) ??

    
    	I bought it, 60 min. +. I haven't listened to it yet though.
    Inside has an order form for E.L.P stuff including "Welcome Back
    My Friends..." the Video! no price.
    
    
    Vinny

    
    	I listened to the new live CD a few times, it's a little
    over 70 minutes. Real good song selection, like a greatest hits
    CD. Songs are sort of just like the studio version , killer version
    of "Fanfare for the Common Man"", sound is very good. Must have
    been some heavyweight sound being there.
    
    
    Vinny

Way back when, I became a huge ELP fan.  Just about every recording they released
is still a prized part of my collection.  I have seen so little over the years,
absolutely nothing, that I was shocked when I ran across an add for an ELP concert
in NYC!  Can anyone comment on what these three have been up to since their time
at the popular music world?

    Wow, you've missed a lot.
    
    Emerson has done lots of soundtracks: "Inferno", "Nighthawks", etc.
    
    A couple of solo albums: "Honky"
    
    And he's been in a variety of trios with Palmer and Lake:  
    	"Three" which was Emerson, Palmer and a Greg Lake-like 
    	bass/guitar/singer whose name I don't remember.
    
    	"Emerson, Lake & Powell" - Powell being Cozy Powell (drummer)
    	of Jeff Beck Group fame among others.  I think their album
    	was the best of the post-ELP era.
    
    Now ELP are back together with a new album called "Black Moon".  I'm
    not crazy about the new album, but it is much better than "Love Beach"
    (which few ELP fans are crazy about) and more like the "old" ELP than
    most of the other reunions are like the "old" bands.
    
    That's the short story.
    
    	db

    Keith now also throws the knife as well as stabbing the organ by
    sliding the knife up and down a pre-sawn slot.

    >Can anyone comment on what these three have been up to since their time
    >at the popular music world?
    
    From the looks of Greg Lake in recent photos, he's been eating  8^)
    
    						Benny The Bouncer

    
    	I saw the video at Strawberries, 80 min. it's also from the
    recent tour but has alot of different songs from the "Live" CD.
    It includes a drum solo. Only $14.99 (20% off until monday). It's
    VHS Hi-Fi stereo.
    
    
    Vinny

    
    	The Video is not a concert video, it's a documentary. It
    does have "live" songs but people cut in and talk during songs.
    Some nice old footage & interesting comments. Sound is ok, not
    great. 

    The video sounds cool...how long is it ??

    
    	80 min. 
    
    
    Vinny

    
    	ELP will be on "The Tonight Show" tonight.
    
    
    Vinny

    
    Can someone give a rundown of their albums in chronological order ?
    Your reviews and comments will be appreciated. Thanks.
    
    sl.
    
    

    1.  "Emerson, Lake & Palmer" - somewhat lower production than their
    		later stuff (mostly straightforward piano and organ)
    		but good stuff
    
    2. "Pictures at an Exhibition" - great rock interpretation of a
        	classic.  Extra song called "The Nutrocker" (based on
    		"The Nutcracker" is also pretty cool.
    
    3. "Tarkus" - first "real" ELP album in my mind.  Real "out"
             composition
    
    4. "Trilogy" - one of my favorites.  More "artsy" than others
    
    5. Brain Salad Surgery - my favorite, if only for Karn Evil 9.
    
    6  Works Vol I - three "solo sides" (EMerson's is a piano concerto)
    	and one less than inspired group side
    
    7.  Works Vol II - Awful, nearly worthless
    
    8.  Love Beach - Makes Works VOl II seems like a masterpiece.  Emerson
    		wrote a note of apology to his fans in Keyboard magazine
    		about this album.  Apparently the record company had
    		put a lot of pressure on them
    
    9. Black Moon - not a stunning comeback, but a great turnaround.
    
    Live albums:
    
    "Welcome Back my Friends" - a MUST have
    
    "In Concert" - lousy recording and poor keyboard sound compromises this
    	IMHO
    
    I may have forgot an album or two, but...
    
    		db

    ELP Fans,
    
    ELP recently re-master and re-released on CD pretty much their ENTIRE
    catalog.
    
    On the original CD release of "Brain Salad Surgery" they "preserved"
    the gap between the two parts of "Karn Evil 9, 1st Impression" even
    though that was there due to the limitations of LP's and tapes.
    
    On this re-release they finally got it right and there is no gap.
    
    I'm warming up my Roland sampler even as we speak.  ;-)
    
    	db

    
    	re: last
    
    	See note 375.13 & 15 in the CD notesfile if you haven't
    already.
    
    
    Vinny
    
    	Vinny

    re: .-1
    
    Care to provide a pointer to that file (???::CD)?
    
    Thanks,
    
    	db

    
    	It's the Compact Disc file, ssdevo::disk$raid_user:[notes]cd.note
    
    
    	Vinny

    
    Dolby Labaratories announced a 'silver jubilee' CD-box from ELP with on
    it in Dolby Surround 'Pictures at an Exhibition'. This was produced by
    Keith Olsen (known from a.o. Fleetwood Mac and Scorpions), especially
    for this occasion....
    
    Willem

    
    
    Anybody know what's in "Return of the Manticore"?  Apparently it's a 4
    disc boxed set.  Does it have any out-takes or anything otherwise
    unavailable on their other releases?
    
    

    I'm looking for the lyrics to 'Father Christmas'....also a pointer to
    where I may find a copy of the song....other than the 2 CD 'Atlantic
    Years' album...
    
    Jim
    

    Re: .80
    
    From what I've *read*: there are new recordings of tunes associated
    with the boys' previous bands: "21st Century Schizoid Man", "Fire" and
    "Rondo".  That's all I know...
    
    						Brian

    There are other unreleased songs as well as the new recordings, but I
    can't recall what they are now..I only have seen the box set
    once...Father Christmas is included in the box fyi.
    
    I picked up the remastered version of Brain Salad Surgery, and they
    have the cd cover like the original album, the fold-out...as well as
    the lyrics and fold out poster..the picture of Keith is different than
    the picture from the album, but it appears to be from the same photo
    shoot.
    
    The box set looks very interesting, but if you plan to buy all of the
    original albums/cd's in the new remastered format, only disc 1 of the
    box set has material not available on the remastered versions. I did
    see it on sale at Newbury Comics for 44.99 I think, down from 54.99 I
    think

    
    
     I picked up the new release of "Welcome Back My Friends..." last
    weekend. I have been waiting for this one for years. It is remixed
    and sounds great. Its on 2 disks from the 3 lp set. Definately one
    of the best recorded live stuff from the early 70's IMO. A must for
    ELP fans. Best part is that I found the set for $18.
    
                                                           mike
    

    > the picture of Keith is different than the picture from the album, but
    > it appears to be from the same photo shoot.
    
    Actually, not really.
    
    There were two versions of the original album available whose only
    difference was Keith's picture.
    
    I know this because I actually wore out a copy of BSS (on vinyl) and 
    when I bought the 2nd copy, it had the picture that is on the
    re-released CD.
    
    Odd because I think the first picture is a much better picture than
    the 2nd.
    
    	db
    

    That's interesting that they used 2 different photos, and I bought my
    vinyl version sometime 1978, and it had the "first" photo, not the
    photo in the new cd....and I agree the "first" photo was better

    
    I think I'll go for the re-mastered CDs, instead of the box set. 
    Sometimes, what they leave out of these collections is more important
    than the stuff they add.  I know these albums pretty well already, but
    I need the CD versions to replace the old vinyl.  Think I'll skip Love
    Beach, though...
    
    BTW, NARAS members pay only $7/disc, whether it's in a boxed set or
    individually offered.  If that sounds interesting to you, check out the
    note string in this conference -- I believe the word "Academy" is in
    the title.
    

    Wes,
    
    I may have it mixed up as to which was the "first" picture and which
    was the "second".
    
    But I know positively that there were two different pictures used
    on the old vinyl versions of the album - i.e. the "different" picture
    in the recent CD re-issue is not "new".

Drat. I really hate it when record companies do this (remaster everything).
There's no reason why they can't get it right the first time - except greed.

Barry

    Last night on Arnsenio Hall I think I heard him say that Emerson, Lake
    and Palmer would be "in the house" tonite (or maybe Friday).
    
    Not sure if that show was a rerun though.  Hard to imagine they'd be
    doing TV appearences unless they were still on tour and I don't think
    they are.
    
    	db

    
    	It's Friday night that they will be on Arsenio, it's not
    a rerun. They are promoting the new Label they are on (Victory).
    They will also do the pre Monday Night Football music on the
    27th of December.
    
    
    Vinny

    > It's Friday night that they will be on Arsenio, 
    
    Well.... I taped the show last night and they WERE on it.
    
    They did "Father Christmas" (surprise, surprise) and then had a mildly
    interesting interview afterwards.

    
    	I should have checked the Globe, I got the ELP newsletter in
    the morning (thursday) & it said the were going to be on tomorrow
    night, it was dated the 16th.
    
    	Well was it any good?
    
    Vinny

    > Well was it any good?
    
    They did a mildly interesting version of "Father Christmas" with
    a chorus, Lake on guitar, Emerson looking incredibly bored playing
    the "Lt Kigi Suite" line on keys, Palmer playing a tamborine and sleigh
    bells.
    
    Arsenio's introduction was kinda interesting: After plugging the new
    "Return of the Manticore" he was pondering "what IS a Manticore?",
    suggesting it was something you didn't want to step in.  Yawn.
    
    After they did the song, there was a 5 minute interview with Arsenio
    asking, largely uninteresting or uninformed questions like 
    
    "What was your first big gig" - Answer: Isle of Wright
    
    "What is different about doing music today?" - Answer: More technology
    
    "What do you think of music today" -  
    	Emerson: Doesn't really like it, son played "Pearl Jam" for him
    		and drew a yawn
    	Palmer: "Likes rap, but it needs to evolve"
    
    "What do you listen to"
    	Emerson: Jazz and classical
    	Palmer:  "Good" music of any kind
    
    "What the heck is a Manticore?"
    	Answer: The thing on the front of the Tarkus cover
    
    You didn't miss much.  I've already taped over it.
    
    	db
    						

	I listened to the first track on their new CD 'In The Hot Seat',
	and bought it...and after some listenings, I don't know if it's
	that much worth. It seems to have glimpses of the old ELP qua-
	lity, but I don't like the recording technich: too much synth
	bass, drums sounding too brutal etc. It's like many other CDs,
	like they say 'we have all this technich, then we better use
	it', and they use the whole dynamic range of the CD media, which
	I find too much, it's simply not natural and hurts on the ears.

	On several occasions, you find yourself wondering, is this Carl
	Palmer's drums, or is it a drum machine? At least a couple of
	songs definitely use a drum machine, which I think is a major
	step backwards for a band like ELP, and a step towards 'Love
	Beach'..

	Then again, Emerson's playing is superb(at least to my knowledge,
	I'm no keyboardist), he's recognizable and simply a class musici-
	an. And Greg Lake has a powerful voice, BUT: he's becoming hoarse.
	What you hear is God knows how many cigarettes and how much of any
	other things, this is really a shame.

	The CD includes a new recording of 'Pictures At An Exhibition' as
	a 'bonus' track, and I dunno...this hoarse voice, and I keep
	hearing the one string that Greg Lake miss on the acoustic - the
	original version is much better, I'm afraid to say...

	Perhaps it will grow on time - actually, I like 'Black Mountain'
	better now, than at the time I bought it.

	Poul

ELP? New album? I thought it was 1994!! My god, haven't these boring old 
farts induced enough pain on the eardrums...

"welcome back my friends to the show that never ends" indeed....

or is it just the mony that has ended?

/tOM

    Tom,
    
    I hope you realize that while in the Guitar World there are many heros
    but in the Keyboard world no one has come even close to touching
    Emerson in terms of his influence and the respect people have for
    what he did for rock keyboards.
    
    Put another way, among keyboard players Emerson is a "legend" and
    there's no other player who seems to have gotten to his status, at
    least as evidenced by my many years of reading Keyboard magazine.
    
    	db

    db...well said, thanx
    
    re.95   Black mountain...do you mean Black Moon ??  guess you didn't
    like it too much ??
    
    re.96   I'd rather have these boring old farts and their "noise" than  
    some of todays' bands and their alleged "music"   
    
    Wes

    
    This means a tour! SCHWING!

    let's hope it means a tour...and that Keith'a hand/arm problems are on
    the mend...

    Good point.
    
    It's hard to imagine that at their very worst, ELP still isn't
    infinitely more musical and talented than 99% of what I hear on the 
    radio these days.
    
    I'll take "Love Beach" over ANYTHING I've heard this week on the radio.

    Actually, I think Rick Wakeman is better... oh nevermind. :-) :-)
    
    Brian

    Get a life!
    
    ;-)

    
    
    re .98 (Wes)
    
    Ooops, of course I meant Black Moon - I guess 'Black Mountain' is a
    song title I have from somewere, which just came off my head...
    
    I didn't like it much in the beginning, but as said, it's better after
    some time - still, the first two tracks are too noisy for me.
    
    Poul
    

Sorry for stepping on some sympho-rock lovers toes but I beg to differ.

So Keith E's a legend. So is Sid Vicious. And Sid had better taste in leather
duds than Emerson.

So he plays nifty keyboards - So does most half-decent classically trained
professional concert pianists...

So ELP were (are still ??) colossal in the 70'ies - The still were massively boring,
overproduced, pompous and no fun.

They represent a long-gone kind of view on music-making where the individual skill
of the players is the only focus in the music. All arrangements are geared towards
letting the players show off (jerk off..) on their respective instruments. 

Hell, everyone who ever played themselves in a band and tried to write songs 
knows that the most difficult thing is to write that 3 minute classic pop song.
Which ELP never even came close to.

/tOM

>So Keith E's a legend. So is Sid Vicious. And Sid had better taste in leather
>duds than Emerson.

	This is too ridicolous to comment.

>So he plays nifty keyboards - So does most half-decent classically trained
>professional concert pianists...

	This is not a case about technich on itself - more a case of 
	originality and matching with the other players - the combination
	of ELP just worked out very well, AND demanded exceptional play-
	ing skills for their chosen repetoire.

>So ELP were (are still ??) colossal in the 70'ies - The still were massively boring,
>overproduced, pompous and no fun.

	If this is the case, I don't understand why they became so popular.

>They represent a long-gone kind of view on music-making where the individual skill
>of the players is the only focus in the music. All arrangements are geared towards
>letting the players show off (jerk off..) on their respective instruments. 

	And what is wrong with this? And you're way behind, this form is
	not long-gone (Dream Theater and much Heavy Metal /New Wave etc.).

>Hell, everyone who ever played themselves in a band and tried to write songs 
>knows that the most difficult thing is to write that 3 minute classic pop song.
>Which ELP never even came close to.

	Who says they wanted to do this? Actually, I think they tried to
	avoid anything like this.

	About old farts playing music:

	Why can't you be old and play rock music? I have seen this view
	on several replies in this notesfile, as well as from papers etc.

	It seems that there is a rather conservative opinion about a rock
	musician as a young, angry, drug-abusing being (generelly spea-
	king). I think this view is about to change in these years, be-
	cause so many of the old rock stars seem to 'go against nature'
	and simply keep playing - and in many cases, do it just much bet-
	ter than their younger colleagues. One example comes to my mind:

	Someone in the Woodstock '94 topic ridicouled Stephen Stills for
	playing 'like he thought he was young', or something like this...

	That is too much!!! Stephen Stills might be old/fat, but he still
	sings well and plays a BETTER guitar than many of the young ones;
	Blind Lemon f.ex., sounded like they barely had their first guitar
	lesson, but what the heck, then they just call themself a cult band
	and voila, noone anymore look at the playing abailities...

	ELP is getting old, perhaps even sloppy on some occasions, but
	they still have that classic style which we have known for about
	25 years - how many will remember Blind Melon, Spin Doctors etc.
	in about the same period from now?

	Poul

    Poul,
    
    A guy who thinks that the ultimate goal is to write a 3 minute pop song
    isn't going to appreciate the effort, art, originality and desire to
    evolve music to new forms (like move beyond "3 minute pop songs") that
    defines "progressive rock" of which ELP are uncontested icons.
    
    If we were talking about food, this guy would argue that the ultimate
    goal in cooking is to make the perfect hamburger and that spending
    all the time and effort of making a fabulous Peking duck is wasted.
    
    	db

>So Keith E's a legend. So is Sid Vicious. And Sid had better taste in leather
>duds than Emerson.
>
>	This is too ridicolous to comment.

OK, just kidding. But the fact is that one thing "boring old farts" never understood
is that "rock music" is about MUSIC AND STYLE. And potbellied Keith E wearing silly 
leather flares tilting his Hammond B3 during "pictures at an ..." is not my idea of style.

> 	If this is the case, I don't understand why they became so popular.

Well, you said it...

>	And what is wrong with this? And you're way behind, this form is
>	not long-gone (Dream Theater and much Heavy Metal /New Wave etc.).

Well, much of the HM bands are just "boring old farts" themselves. BOF has nothing
with age BTW, its more a state of mind.
And what I am driving at is NOT "bad  musicans are cool" but rather the fact that too 
much music of the kind of which ELP are a prime example of is music made BY
MUSICANS for OTHER MUSICANS. This kind of music tend to be very rigid, formalized,
basically uninteresting because the SOUL and GUTS of the player never shows.
Again it's not enough to tilt the Hammond...

Where true passion and a sence of "these guys play for their lives" is present 
and not just cold "look-man-I can-play-faster-than-a-rabbit-fornicates". Where
the fact that you dont know how to play a C11sus13 chord doesn't bring sneers
from "the real musicians". This is why old blues guitar players are infinetly
more SOULFULL than a stadium full of Emersons and Satrianis and Malmsteens and
(the worst of them all) "drummers that have to play a solo".

>	It seems that there is a rather conservative opinion about a rock
>	musician as a young, angry, drug-abusing being (generelly spea-
>	king). I think this view is about to change in these years, be-
>	cause so many of the old rock stars seem to 'go against nature'
>	and simply keep playing - and in many cases, do it just much bet-
>	ter than their younger colleagues.

I agree in part here. Of course you can be old and play rock! I am myself (ahem..)

But we were discussing ELP and I do NOT think of them as "ROCK". Pretensious
neo-classic overblown schmaltz would be closer. And BTW, the reason so many old rock
stars come back is because they have blown all the money (on drugs?) and beacuse
their generation (the 40-somthing mob) wants a piece of nostalgia on the 
weekends. 

(I just cant wait for those Sex Pistols nostalgia parties that will really start to
 happen in about 10 - 15 years time. When your 55+ and TFSO'd from your job the 
 phrase "No Future" pretty much sums it up, I guess...)

    > Nothing like a difference of opinon...
    
    FWIW, this is not a "difference of opinion", this is a purely "lack of
    appreciation" on your part.   You can't see it ("guts and soul" or
    whatever), thus you conclude "it ain't there".
    
    I feel sorry that you will never be able to enjoy some of the
    kinds of music that I do, but saying it lacks something that is CLEARLY
    present to many others demonstrates the folly of your statement.
    
    Enjoy your hamburgers,
    
    	db

    Oh, btw, ELP did contribute 2 classic 3-minute pop tunes which still
    play frequently on the radio today:
    
    		"Lucky Man"  and   "From the Beginning"
    
    Thus they've proven they can achieve your notion of ultimate music.
    
    Fortunately, THEIR notion of ultimate is considerably higher.

    
    	Dave, you're arguing with someone who thinks Emerson should
    	look good while he's playing.  Why bother?
    
    	I think he's caught up in MTV's "era of the poseur".
    
    	Bon Jovi looks good on stage [*], but there's more to music than
    	looking good while playing it.
    
    							GTI
    
    	P.S.  Not my opinion, but you know what I mean.
    

    > Dave, you're arguing with someone who thinks Emerson should
    > look good while he's playing. 
    
    Yes, a point I had failed to notice.
    
    > Why bother?
    
    You know me... I love a good debate.  Especially a one-sided one such
    as this.

	re .108:

	Well, I can see there is no point in discussing their music with
	you - you have certainly not grasped ELP's musical idea - and you
	never will. I don't have the energy or time to argue towards that
	flood of words, you should just remember that I simply put in a
	(rather critical, I would say) review of their latest CD, and
	then you just bully away with utter nonsense - perhaps you're a-
	musing yourself, but to me it looks like you are having a problem
	of some sort.

	Hey db, if you happen to hear this CD, I'd be interested to hear
	your opinion! (or any other's reasonable comments)

	Poul

Like the man said : I Love a good argument! Hey this is just fun, allright? No need
to get upset just because I happen to think that ELP are a boring band. 

As to that hamburger analogy: I'll rather have the "perfect" hamburger than a 
Peking Duck that makes me sick. And to compare ELP to Peking Duck, well I rather
see them as a casserole (you know, bits ans pieces of everything without nothing
really tasting anything...).

Grasping ELP's musical idea? Stretching the limits of "pop", marriage beteween
rock and classical? Or just showing off? Like I said, theres music made with
the heart (and soul) and theres music made with cold technincal brilliance in
mind. 

>	Hey db, if you happen to hear this CD, I'd be interested to hear
>	your opinion! (or any other's reasonable comments)

Reasonable commments? From your basic position I take it thats opinions that are
in line with your own, then?

OK heres one: The best "song" ELP ever did was "Are you ready, Eddie" because there
they for once displayed somthing sadly lacking in their otherwise owerblown 
melodrama, HUMOUR, DISTANCE and PLAYING FOR FUN.

/Thanks and enjoy the Peking Duck!

/tOM

	OK, I'm not that upset :-)

>Grasping ELP's musical idea? Stretching the limits of "pop", marriage beteween
>rock and classical? Or just showing off? Like I said, theres music made with
>the heart (and soul) and theres music made with cold technincal brilliance in
>mind. 

	You see it as cold technical brilliance, I see it (especially the
	old ELP) as powerful, ambitious rock music that partly takes up
	the classic symphonic orchestra playing style, partly uses more
	common rock music as their influence. Not that I don't like the
	more 'sweathing' music - my CD/LP collection also contains artists
	like Hendrix, Who, Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn etc. - but I see it
	as different genres of music, and I enjoy both full hearted.

	ELP's music is by no way easy to comprehend - like if you sudden-
	ly was presented to a wild solo from Jimi Hendrix, your immidiate
	would respond and call it: noise! But beyond the apparent noise,
	one begin to understand the musicianship of Hendrix; and it's
	EXACTLY the same thing with ELP: you have to go beyond the tech-
	nical and apparently cold surface to grasp the beauty of their
	harmonies, to find the 'red thread' through all the different
	kinds of compositions they have made. Further, I don't see Keith
	Emerson as a 'cold' musician - he was once titled as 'a very ta-
	lented classic piano player, but with too much temper' - and
	that he is, he takes on a classic-like piece of music and suddenly
	twist it with jazz-like chords - this is one of his trademarks,
	nobody does this like him; on the Hammond Organ he bends and
	twist every note in every way to make a full expression, on the
	old Hammonds, he even turned them off/on during playing, to make
	'slide' effect (this could be done because the old Hammonds were
	build with 'tone-wheels') - one could say he treated his Hammond
	as Hendrix treated his guitar, I certainly find a lot of 'heart
	and soul' in the way Keith Emerson plays.

>Reasonable commments? From your basic position I take it thats opinions that are
>in line with your own, then?

	Not at all. Remember, I was actually VERY critical with my review.
	What annoys me a bit is terms like 'old farts' - this is really not
	fair, when you think of what ELP has achieved during their career.
	You might as well summarize music by Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, 
	Rolling Stones, Yes, Jethro Tull a.o. by just calling them 'old
	farts', if you don't happen to like their music - and this I think
	is stupid and extremely narrowminded. Several of the above men-
	tioned are not among my favourites, but I certainly recognize 
	their special talents, which have made them what they are today - 
	living legends of their time.

	Poul

    
    Some people JUST don't get it.

>    Some people JUST don't get it.

Stop rubbing it in %^}

Droid

Hey tOM, first off let me say I appreciate your ability to be both annoyingly
(and amusingly) opinionated and yet to roll with the punches when you get
people's dander up.  Ditto to Poul for his latest reply.  Notesfiles could
often use more wit and grace like yours, and I've really enjoyed this latest
thread.

Something you said struck an interesting chord:

>>Like I said, theres music made with
>>the heart (and soul) and theres music made with cold technincal brilliance in
>>mind. 

I think the problem is in your seeming to equate "cold" with "technical
brilliance"  See, in general I agree with you.  I think that MORE OFTEN THAN
NOT, musicians and bands use technical brilliance as a substitute for heart
and soul and I often end up on exactly the same side of the argument as you.
But that's not always the case and it certainly doesn't have to be; 
technical brilliance is not by definition cold.  And unfortunately, I think
you've missed the boat big time on ELP.  To me, they've always been one of the
more striking examples of technical brilliance WITH soul.  Sometimes, you have
to look below the surface a bit, sometimes not even ("Take a Pebble"?).  You
want humor?  Take a good look sometime at Greg Lake :-)

How do you like those burgers, rare or medium?

/rick

    As for this "debate", I think the ultimate insult any debate can get is
    for db to say "it's too stupid for me to participate in".  'Nuf said.
    
    How did you get a copy of the album (you can take the 5th amendment
    if you prefer)???
    
    I thought it wasn't coming out until October?
    
    

..and just when you started think it's all over..

re .118 I like my hamburgers medium. Won't say anything bout the Duck,though. How 
        did all this food stuff get into the argument, anyway? 

>    As for this "debate", I think the ultimate insult any debate can get is
>    for db to say "it's too stupid for me to participate in".  'Nuf said.
    
OK, I dont like ELP - the rest of the world does. Let's call it a draw, shall we?

Errhh....waddaya think of Yes? 

:-)

/tOM

    
    db, I just went into the shop and bought here in Denmark! So I expect
    that you can do the same in the US!!??
    
    What do you mean with this 5th amendment? (perhaps I'm stupid here)??
    
    Poul
    

    > OK, I dont like ELP - the rest of the world does. 
    
    That ought to tell you something shouldn't it?
    
    re: Poul
    
    >  What do you mean with this 5th amendment? (perhaps I'm stupid here)??
    
    Ooops... sorry...
    
    Here in the United States there is an amendment to our Constitution
    such that a person is never required to "testify against himself".
    
    For example, if a person is accused of a crime and is asked "did you do
    it?" he is allowed to not answer the question and... a jury may not
    hold his non-answer against him.
    
    The ELP album is not yet released here in the states.  Thus a person
    having a copy of it before the release date MIGHT have obtained it
    illegally (record labels aggressively pursue and prosecute "leaks")
    so I suggested that if you had obtained your copy illegally (and I know
    you haven't cause you said you bought it in a store) that you invoke
    the fifth amendment.
    
    Hope that helps.

>    That ought to tell you something shouldn't it?

Well, you ever heard the one about "a million flies can't be wrong..
eat ****".

BTW, how many copies of their latest albums have ELP actually sold? 
Not many I guess, haven't seen them on any charts lately. What have 
these guys really been doing the last 10 - 15 years? Getting fat like the
rest of us? Or just hibernating?

This is really an interesting question, where did all the "grrreat" bands of the 
70'ies go after the "punk rock explosion" that turned peoples ears
on to other stuff. And more interestingly, why do they pop up now like ghosts
from the past? No pun intended.

/tOM

    Did anyone buy the "Manticore Collection".
    
    I remember that it had some previously unreleased stuff and some new
    recordings. 
    
    I'd like to hear people's opinions of them.
    
    	db

    Went to a friend's birthday party last night that was held at the Royal
    Madarin in Marlboro MA. Had some great Peking Duck, along with Sechuan
    Sea Bass, 69 Delights (yeah, I know, but that's what it's called), Shark
    Fin soup, Ginger Roast Chicken, Lobster... all sorts of yummy Chinese
    food.  Didn't listen to any ELP though... :-)
    
    Brian

> Didn't listen to any ELP though...

Do you feel that this fact made the dinner more enjoyable or not? 
Or did you go out and grab a burger afterwards?

/tOM

    >  OK, I like Peking Duck...
    
    The chef making peking duck was showing "cold technical brilliance",
    just "showing off".
    
    All the truly great chefs are making hamburgers.