Conference mr1pst::music

    
    	Clapton sucks.
    

    That Tom bleedin' Parmenter.

    Mariah Carey looks like a slut.  
    
    Lorna
    

    
    	You say that like it's a bad thing.
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

    ..thanks shawn...i needed that laugh...............;')......../k

    >  Mariah Carey looks like a slut.
    
    Hey, this is the bashing topic.  Compliments go in the "Mariah Carey"
    topic.  ;-)

    
    >> Mariah Carey looks like a slut.  
    
    	Excuse me??!?!?! 
    
    	Since when did a pretty face, tight skirt, and high heels
    	become slut-like qualities?
    
    	Now because you used a smiley face in your title, I'll refrain from
    	writing anything else.
    
    	Slut? Perhaps you need a dictionary.
    
    
    
    

    
    Mariah....whether she is or is not....I'd marry her tomorrow !!! 8')
    
       Oh BOY.....what a bod !
    
    /Sax
    

    
    
    I said  : drummers can't sing and bass players can't dance
    He said : I don't buy it
    I said  : it is a statistical piece of information
    He said : is this mentioned in the notes conference ?
    I said  : no
    He said : then I don't believe it.
    I said  : I will mention it in the notes conference.
    
    
    So, to make it an official printed matter :
    
    Drummers can't sing and bass players can't dance.
    
    There. It is registered.
    
    If you are going to come up with bzillion counter examples please don't
    start with Phil Collins. And Ringo doesn't count either.
    
    Lale

    Well, a drummer (my roommate when this happened) once asked me what key
    I was singing in, and I didn't know, and he said he couldn't tell
    either...
    
    So some drummers can recognize that other people can't sing either.
    Empirically proven.

    
    	Actually, drummers are the ones who can't dance.  They get on
    	the floor and their feet are doin' the the hi-hat-bass-drum
    	boogie, and their arms doin' cymbal rides and rolls.
    	
    	Without exception!
    
    	

    
    I don't buy it. 8)
    

    re .10, what about Stan Lynch?  :-)
    
    He can sort've sing!
    
    Lorna
    
    ps - and Van Morrison can play the drums, but then you didn't say
    singers can't play the drums!!
    

re: .10
    
>    Drummers can't sing and bass players can't dance.
    
Well, leave me out of the dancing argument, but... :-)

I think it's probably true that *many* (but not all) drummers
(and many bass players for that matter) have trouble singing, or
at least singing while playing.  It's often tricky to sing a melody
on top of a rhythmically different thing that you are playing, and
both drum and bass parts are often rhythmically different than the
melody being sung on top of them.

That said, on with the counter-examples:

>    If you are going to come up with bzillion counter examples please don't
>    start with Phil Collins. And Ringo doesn't count either.

    o	Just to be ornery, I *will* start with Phil Collins.  Personally,
	I can't stand the guy, but I don't think one can fairly say that
	he can't sing.  "Can't sing" is quite different from "I don't
	like his/her singing".

    o	Again, I'm not wild about most of his stuff, but I think you 
	would be hard pressed to argue that Don Henley can't sing.

    o	George Grantham from Poco (I know, I'm showing my age) not only
	was (perhaps still is) a fine singer, but also sang all of the
	high parts (no mean feat in that group!) without ever missing a
	beat on drums.

    o	I've known personally and seen live quite a few drummers that
	sang well, both in local acts and touring national acts.

Whoops, I'm sorry!  This is a bash note and here I am making
constructive comments!  Mea culpa...

-Hal

    the drummer in 'the band' can sing.  everyone in 'the band' sings!
    can't remember his name (levon helm?).
    
    i guess ringo proves that drummers can't sing!
    
    blind willis mcduck

    
    All the hubbub in the GNR topic has prompted me to reiterate that
    I'm convinced Axel Rose, Bruce Springsteen and Billy Ray Cyrus are 
    one in the same...   he sucks. 8)
    
    A bottle pop to the head could only be an improvement.
    
    Tim

    > levon helm sings, ringo doesn't!
    
    Have you ever wondered who sang "Yellow Submarine" and "Octopus's
    Garden"?
    
    OK, perhaps that' implies a liberal definition of "singing" but it
    can be said that the statement isn't 100% accurate.

    On the other hand, it can be said that Yoko Ono  doesn't sing.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

I didn't know that Whitney Houston played drums...

    OK, since I started it, and to demonstrably dismiss the false notion that
    I am against bashing, Yoko Ono is, by far, the most hideous music
    I've ever heard on a major label.
    
    I'd like to think that not only wouldn't she get signed if she wasn't
    John Lennon's wife, she wouldn't even bother to TRY to have a career
    in music.  She must know how awful she is.
    
    My band sorta experimented a bit with pulling people from the crowd
    up to sing with us (sorta like Karaoke but with a live band).  I can
    honestly tell you that with one exception ("Fitz" if my fellow band
    members remember him), we have never had anyone who wasn't twice the
    singer that Yoko is.
    
    Not only is the average person a better singer, but I'd go so far to
    say that Yoko is amazingly (and disturbingly) bad.
    
    	db

    
>    Have you ever wondered who sang "Yellow Submarine" and "Octopus's
>    Garden"?
    
    He also (ironically) sings "what would you do if I sang out of tune,
    would you stand up and walk out on me" (with a little help from my
    friends). I happen to like Ringo's voice. He sings a few more songs but
    I am not going to name them, there is a question about it on the next
    music trivia I am working on. I wouldn't want to spoil the fun for you.
    Once again I think he does have a sweet voice.
    
    
>    	Actually, drummers are the ones who can't dance.  They get on
>    	the floor and their feet are doin' the the hi-hat-bass-drum
>    	boogie, and their arms doin' cymbal rides and rolls.
>    	
>    	Without exception!
    
    I laughed out loud. Is that really so ? I can picture a drummer doing
    all those arm and feet motions. Next time I am on the dance floor, I
    will be able to spot them. And once I detect all the drummers on the
    floor ... avoid them ???
    
    About Yoko and Linda : I think Linda is as bad as Yoko, musically, but
    she gets less critisism, I think because she is pretty, relatively
    speaking...
    
    Lale
    
    
    Lale
    
    

    re .21, I think it's funny what you said about everyone from the crowd,
    who ever sang, was twice the singer that Yoko Ono is!  Last week I was
    driving in the car with my daughter and, just kidding around, to annoy
    her, I started belting out the U2 song "One" which is one of her favorites. 
    She said, "Mum, what are you trying to do? Take the place of Yoko Ono
    as the worst singer of all time?"   I said, "I wasn't *that* bad, was
    I?"  And, she said, "No.  I guess not."   :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    i know that ringo starr does 'sing' on records.
    i meant to imply that 'singing' and sounding good were
    two different things.
    i can listen to ringo 'sing' without leaving the room
    but he would not be on my list of singers music i would
    want on a desert island.
    
    wasn't yoko ono singing on records before she met john?
    i know she was (allegedly) already considered an 'artist'
    but thought she tried to sing prior to john.
    
    some of us are forgetting that we may not  like someone's
    singing but our dislike doesn't mean they can't sing.
    now if someone could objectively define 'singing'.
    
    blond willis mcduck (my albino evil twin)

    Ringo Starr, post-Beatles  :
    
    LP					Label		Year	Chart Position
    
    Sentimental Journey			Apple		1970	22
    Beaucoups of Blues			Apple		1970	65
    Ringo				Apple		1973	2
    Goodnight Vienna			Apple		1974	8
    		(I have this one. With anti drug "no no song" and with
    		 Elton John's "snookeroo, snookeroo's my name")
    		(I was fourteen then !, I loved his version of "only you")
    Blast From Your  Past		Apple		1975	30
    Ringo's Rotogravure			Atlantic	1976	28
    Ringo the 4th			Atlantic	1977	162
    Bad Boy				Portrait	1978	129
    Stop & Smell the Roses 		Boardwalk	1981	98
    Ringo Starr & His All Starr Band	Rykodisc	1990
    Time Takes Time			Private		1992
    
    
    Would you want any of these on a deserted island ?
    
    Lale

>    i know she was (allegedly) already considered an 'artist'
>    but thought she tried to sing prior to john.
    
    I and fault Lennon for not trying to talk her out of it. ;-) 
    
>    some of us are forgetting that we may not  like someone's
>    singing but our dislike doesn't mean they can't sing.
    
    My dislike of Yoko Ono's singing is entirely independent of the
    fact that she CAN NOT SING!  ;-)
    
>    now if someone could objectively define 'singing'.
    
    Jessie Helms once said, "I can't define pornography but I know it when
    I see it."
    
    I can't define singing, but I know it when I hear it.
    
    When Yoko Ono opens her mouth, what I hear is not singing.  ;-)

    Linda McCartney can't sing and can't play well either, but at least she
    admits it.  I have never heard of Yoko saying her singing was bad.
    
    RE: drummers can't dance.
    
    Well, I have to admit I'm not much of a dancer.  You can tell a drummer
    by them always playing along with the music, even if the music is only 
    in their heads.
    
    I haven't played in years and I still do it.  My 6 year old son wants
    to learn to play and he is starting to tap along to music, what really
    worries my wife though is that my 7 month old son is starting to bang
    on things when he's listening to music.
    
    Dave V

re: .25

>    Ringo Starr, post-Beatles  :
	.   
	.   
	.   
>    Would you want any of these on a deserted island ?
    
No, but it's not because of the singing. :-)

-Hal

    Everybody can sing.  
    
    Not everybody can sing well.
    
    Actually, relatively speaking, hardly anybody can sing well, which is
    why there's money to be made in becoming a recording artist.  People
    will actually PAY to hear you sing.  
    
    Although I suppose that part of the appeal is the music, and the
    lyrics, rather than So and So singing.  Naturally, your mileage may
    vary.
    
    kim

    Since we've mentioned Linda McC...
    
    ...apparently there's a tape doing the rounds of the music industry
    that was taken from a live feed off the desk of a Macca gig. Unlike the
    sanitised product you normally hear, they've left Linda's vocals on (in
    fact, I have a feeling her vox are the only ones on the tape), and the
    result is, ummm..... painful... :^)
    
    Nick

    
    
    They were playing that tape here (in L.A.) two years ago.  Somebody had
    taped a monitor mix which had Linda's vocals right up front.  Her
    singing on this tape sounds like the kind of subconscious thing you
    hear when someone's attention is focused elsewhere...  Maybe it's
    harder to play those keyboard parts than it looks???
    
    BTW, I think Yoko truly is an artist, but maybe the recording studio is
    not her best medium.  After all, you got to remember that John saw
    something really special in this woman...  
    
    

    re: a bunch back
    
    I though Rick Danko was the drummer for "the band".
    
    also,
    
    What about Don Henley for singing drummers?
    
    -Jesse

    re: Tape of Linda
    
    1)	When I saw the McCartney tour in Worcester, that was one of the
    	best overall vocal shows I've ever seen, and you could hear Linda
    	just fine.
    
    2)	Linda sounds fine on the records.
    
    3)	I sure wouldn't want anybody carefully selecting an isolated vocal 
    	of ME from a live performance where the monitors were 
    	who-knows-how-good and listening to it for laughs.  Talk about 
    	unfair.  Sheesh.
    
    re: Danko
    
    Rick Danko was the bass player for The Band.  Levon Helm played drums.

    
    Yoko tried to sell her artistry first to Ringo and bored him out of
    his brains, before she was even introduced to John. After Ringo manages
    to escape from her, John comes along and she tells her life story this
    time to him, and to everybody's surprise, he is impressed.
    
    Ref. Linda :
    
    Doesn't she have a song in which she claims to be the "cook of the 
    house" ;-)
    
    As we all know, Linda's real art (and profession) is photography. I
    have perused a couple of her books, didn't do much for me. At the
    end of the concerts, she pulls out her camera, and from behind the
    keyboards she starts shooting the audience. Anybody saw that ?
    Does she have to do that ? Is she trying to say that she is a multi-
    talent artist ?
    
    Cheers
    
    Lale
    

    Rick Danko plays bass. Levon Helm was the Band's drummer. (and you'll
    hear that Levon Helm has a beautiful way of singing if you listen to him
    sing the bridge of "Little John of God" on Los Lobos' The Neighborhood
    album)

    --Ron

    actually, as i recall froms seeing the last waltz,
    the band has(had?) a bunch of multi-instrumented members.
    
    hey, what about dave clark.  he was the drummer and singer
    for the dave clark five.  
    
    gary lewis of gary lewis and the playboys.
    
    buddy miles.
    
    

    re: The Band
    
    I believe Richard Manuel played some drums on occasion, although he 
    normally played piano and electric piano.
    
    Garth Hudson played accordion and sax in addition to his usual duties
    as organist and music teacher.
    
    

    re: The Band
    

    Watching Levon Helm do "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down", in
    "The Last Waltz" gives me goosebumps every time.  He's awesome.
    
    Di

    
    
    Levon Helm also plays the mandoline. I once read that he was the best
    singer in the band but they all took turns singing just to maintain the
    team spirit.
    
    Lale
    

    
    Jackson Browne.  Hate him.  Hate his stoopid "No Nukes" toonz.  Hate
    the fact he is a woman beating hypocrite.
    
    

    re .40, oh, you were at the house and saw him hit Darryl, huh?  :-)
    
    Hey, Don Henley told Rolling Stone magazine that he'd bet everything he
    owned that Jackson Browne didn't hit her, and, as RS pointed out, "and
    to be fair, Don Henley *does* own a lot."  :-)
    
    I don't know if he hit her or not, but I used to like his earlier music
    quite a bit.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    So? was Henley there?
    
    

    I don't think so, but apparently he's been very close friends with
    Browne for a long time.  
    
    Personally, I have *no* idea whether Jackson Browne really hit Darryl
    Hannah, or not, but since they were alone when the alleged incident
    happened it just seems to me that none of us really knows, for a fact,
     that he beats up women.  All anyone knows is that they had a bad fight, 
    broke-up, she said he hit her, and then decided to drop charges.
    
    Lorna
    

    re. 40
    
    I agree, with the exception of one Jackson Browne song -- Somebody's
    Baby, from the movie Fast Times at Ridgement High.  This song was
    totally uncharacteristic of Jackson Browne, and it is a great rocker.

    
    Me too.  I keep thinking Todd Rundgren when I hear it.
    
    

    
    So, when did Darryl & Jackson break up?  I saw 'em together in
    August...
    
    I've been listening to "Running on Empty" in the car, and frankly, it's
    pretty boring after a couple of plays.  (this is the bashing note,
    right?)  Without the fiddle parts, these tunes would just put you right
    to sleep.  I liked "Saturate" a lot more...
    

    And I used to think I had nothing to admire Jackson Browne for.

Let's bash videos.

I've always thought that if I had to pick the worst video, it would be
heavy metal ... but now I'd like to nominate "You Can Call Me Al," with
Paul Simon and Chevy Chase sitting in a room, mouthing the lyrics and
generally goofing off.  What is supposed to be entertaining in this video?
Chevy Chase, celebrity?  "I just don't get it."

- DC

    
    I probably don't qualify as a video basher/praiser since I catch a
    portion of a video average once in two months while trying to
    locate Seinfeld, but 
    
    The most boring video has to be R.E.M's "hey hey kid kid, rock'n
    roll, nobody tells you what to do, baby" video. I like the song
    but the video is, mildly put, sick.
    
    And I enjoy the "You Can Call Me Al" video. I think it's funny. The
    expressions on their faces are just priceless. I also like the "Proof"
    video with Chase and Steve Martin. It is hilarious. "Do you call him
    Simons ?"
    
    Maybe I am biased being a Paul Simon fan for life.
    
    Put the smiles back to where they belong !
    
    	Lale
    

I guess I haven't lasted thru enough of the video to see any expression come on
Paul Simon's face ....  ;^)

- Dave also a P.S. fan

    Granted, many of the earlier vidoes were just dumb, but there was a time
    in the late 80s where vidoes were getting interesting. The ones that
    come to mind are "Drive" by the Cars directed by Timothy Hutton I think,
    and the morphing faces by Gottley and Creem or whatever their name
    is/was. Then bands like Great White and Warrent (GAWD I HATE EVEN
    THINKING ABOUT THEM) moved in and really stunk the place up.

    --Ron

    
    Howzabout every heavy metal group video.  band trying to look cool,
    playing in a smoky warehouse type building, cut in with close up shots
    of various beautiful models' body parts ( ok, I don't mind THAT so
    much ) - but can't they come up with something original?
    
    	To be fair, maybe there's something more to the Whitesnake/Warrant/
    Motley Crue/etc,etc videos, but i never get past the first 5 seconds
    unless the models are REALLY cute.  And then I hit mute anyways :-)
    
    	I like Peter Gabriel's bizzare video's - TMBG's are funny, and one
    more vote for "You Can Call me Al".  
    
    	I don't mind live video's, as long as they really are live - not
    life BS's Dancing in the Dark . . .
    
    				$.02   - Jim 

    
    While we're on the topic of videos - anybody noticed how lots of these
    lame, industrial-looking locations have slow-turning exhaust exhaust
    fans in the background?  It's almost like some design weenie had an
    original idea for a commercial and the hacks designing music videos
    just latched onto it...
    
    I second that Peter Gabriel endorsement - he was the highlight of the
    Grammies!
    

    I got a good laugh out of that Phil Collins video where he spoofs all
    these posers running "video ideas" past him. And you can recognize most
    of them as rip offs of stuff that's already been done.

    That one was clever, it was. Don't remember the name though.

   I have no time for these videos that show semi-clad females crawling into
bed with the lead singers etc etc.... there are enough examples, Whitesnake,
Aerosmith, Prince and a lot of other bands not worth mentioning.... The main
reason behind this is that "so called" fans are stupid enough to go out and buy
the record because the video has some awesome looking semi-naked females jumping
in and out of bed.

   There are a lot of bands and performers out there that make decent videos 
Peter Gabriel, U2, Rem, Genesis, Midnight Oil, Dire Straits, Talking Heads when
they were around, and now David Byrne.

    So Iam bashing all these crappy sexist videos, except for George Michaels


                                                                   -dave-

    

	And I also dislike Prince's growing use of children in 
        his sexual videos.

    re:.55...why do you make an exception for george michaels??....../k
    

    Ok, not only does the Coverdale/Page 'thang' rip off Led Zep, which
    rips off whatever blues guy you care to name, but in the middle of
    the song I saw on MTV is a gratuitous ELP quote that just stops the
    song in its tracks, so to speak.  I'm not steamed about this, I'm not 
    in the demographic (I hope), but geez.
    
    To paraphrase an old quote, 'Good music steals, bad music borrows.'
    
    Peter  

    
    	Unless you've got that quote backwards, it didn't prove your
    	point any.
    
    	And I love Coverdale/Page ... great stuff!!  Better than Led
    	Zeppelin, who I really don't like too much.
    
    							GTI

    re: Peter O'Malley
    
    What's the ELP quote?
    
    BTW, Pete, I'm starting to get more serious about recording that 
    parody tune we wrote via the network years ago.

    I think it's from their version of _Fanfare for the Common Man_.
    Not sure, but it's definitely an ELP riff.
    
    Peter

    ELP quotes, what's this one from?....
    
       "I'm your program....I am yourself". 
    
    Jeanne
    

    Actually it's "Load your program".
    
    It's from Karn Evil 9, Third Impression.
    
    Jeanne, I hear from Susan Farina that you are trying to get in touch
    with me.  You told her something about my not replying but I definitely
    haven't received any mail from you???
    
    I can give you that sheet music to copy anytime.  I had it in my
    briefcase for ages (although it's back on the shelf right now).

    
    >I had it in my briefcase for ages 
    
    Dave, the only thing you are supposed to carry in your briefcase
    is your lunch, as I learned at a management course ;-)
    
    Lale
    

    
    A moment ago, on the radio, they were playing "Why have you left
    the one you left me for", which reminded me how gros Crystal Gayle's
    hair was. Does anybody find hair that long desirable ? How does she
    shampoo, how does she swim, how does she make love ?
    
    Lale
    

    (since this is a music notesfile and to keep this note  marginally
    related to music, I never really cared for Crystal Gayle brand of sweet
    country, starting with "Don't it make my brown eyes blue".  Then again,
    I don't care for country much, period, which makes this entry not quite
    a bash, but at least, not an endorsement :)
    
    Now, about hair:
    
    Having had long hair down to my butt on at least a couple occassions
    during my life (and having hair thick enough that when it is even
    moderately long, it is quite straight, ala Ms. Gayle's), I can answer a
    couple of those questions:
    
    Desirability:  Being a woman, no, it doesn't appeal to me.  Having
    heard from most men I know (and with whom the discussion of long hair
    vs. not long hair has come up), it seems men like long hair.  Hence, I
    am now growing out my hair, even though it's often more pain than it
    seems worth.  But men like it, and dammit, if I'm not a slave to men's
    desires, I don't know what I am. ;)
    
    Shampooing:  Just do it, like the Nike ads used to say.  You get it
    wet, you shampoo a couple times, make sure you rinse, etc.  Just like
    people with short hair only it takes longer.  No great mysteries there.
    :)
    
    Swimming:  Just do it.  Unless you're in a pool where people with long
    hair (that is, hair below their shoulders) have to wear caps, and then
    you just pull it back into a tail and wind it up till it fits under a
    cap.  No big deal there.
    
    Making love:  well, one's mileage may vary, lovemaking being what it
    is.  In any case, sharing a bed in any fashion with another when
    one has long hair sometimes might cause a "Yow, you're [insert
    offending position, such as kneeling, sitting, leaning, lying] on my
    hair", after which one simply removes the offending part (elbow, knee,
    Black and Decker workshop bench) from the hair and all progesses as
    normal.    [insert liberal doses of smiley faces]
    
    We now bring you back to your regularly scheduled bash note.
    
    kim
        

    
    I am beginning with overdose of smiley faces. I laughed so much my
    cheeks are aching.
    
    Kim, her hair is not long. Her hair is too too long. Her hair is up to
    her ankles. Have you ever seen her on stage ? She is walking slowly not
    to trip over her hair. She cannot make sudden turns. That hair does not
    fit under a regular bathing cap.
    
    I am sure she has a helper to shampoo her hair. It is at least 2 meters
    long.
    
    Lale
    ps: I am not a Crystal Gayle fan either. And definitely not into
    country.
    
    
    

    ....her hair??...scraggle city..... she needs it  to be trimmed at
    least a foot for it to even remotely approach healthy looking....but as
    far as hair care...her hair is so thin all she has to do is wash it and
    it probably dries by itself in 10 minutes...../k who has waist length hair.
    ......

    re .65
    
    Crystal makes love very well, thank you very much

    ...re: -1..well, i don't know about the rest of you..but that was
    a tad more information than I was really looking for........;')...../k 

    Crystal Gayle's hair is an example of something that is normally
    attractive (long hair) taken to such an absurd extreme that it has
    become ugly.
    
    I think the same can be said of Dolly Parton's chest.
    
    Lorna
    

    >such an absurd extreme that it has
    >become ugly.
    
    >I think the same can be said of Dolly Parton's chest.
    
    I find Crystal's hair and Dolly's, er, shape quite attractive....to
    each his own I guess!
    
    Now let's talk Chris Kristofferson (sp?)......can't sing, looks
    horrible, can't act.....needs to stick to songwriting....maybe.
    
    Steve

    re .72, I think Dolly's chest looks more like a rear end than a bosom!! 
    :-)
    
    But, to each their own, is right.  For example, you probably have no
    desire to jump Chris Robinson's bones.  :-)   (and he might not have to
    twist my arm...)   :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    re .72, Chris Kristofferson just bores me.  He's bla.  He was nice to
    Sinaed when she got booed off the stage, though.  A gentleman.  :-)
    
    Male singers who turn me off:
    
    Black Francis - formerly of Pixies - that boy is *ugly*!!!
    
    Ted Nugent - yuck - what a mess!
    
    Axl Rose - I'm not interested in his childhood and the skirt looks
               stupid.  :-)
    
    Slash - formerly of Guns'n'Roses - long hair on men - a good idea goes
                                                            bad
    
    Lorna
    

>    Slash - formerly of Guns'n'Roses - long hair on men - a good idea goes

    formerly? Did I miss something? 

    if you jumped Chris Robinson's bones, they'd probably break!

    re .76, nah!  I only weigh 95 lbs.  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    re .76, course, on the other hand, I *am* 18 yrs. older than him, but I
    see that as a minor detail.  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    Back to the bashing...
                       
    Michael Boloton (not a typo) sucks.
    
    Most rap sucks.
    
    People ripping off ELP should be slowly tortured, and then killed.
    
    ELP ripping off composers, however, is a recommended practice.
    
    Most mass-market music sucks- and the stuff that doesn't will get
    played to death, until that too will suck.
    
    Spin Doctors really suck, moreso than the typical 'college-radio to top
    40' band. They suck suck suck suck.
    
    Coffee-breath while wearing a cleanroom suit sucks, too, but that's
    a different story.

heh-heh heh-heh...  you said  "Sucks"

    heh-heh...Hey Beavis, eMpTy-Vee sucks
    

    
    What can I say....heh-heh...heh-heh...heh-heh....
    
    
    
       Mikel Jackson....he has no preference B or W

    Major Disclaimer: I like Beatles. A lot.
    
    And I never thought I'd write something about them under the bashing
    topic. However:
    
    The other day, when I was walking around looking for something to spend
    money on, I saw four Beatles video tapes at the Sam. First, I thought
    of buying all four of them, then I said "hey, take it easy, one at a
    time" and bought "The First US Visit". You know, the famous Ed Sullivan
    Show. You see, there is the proof, I am indeed a fan, I bought a tape,
    I paid $35, and yes, that was very stupid.
    
    Last night I watched it. The film included many shots from
    "supposedly" their casual, day-to-day selves, i.e. hanging out in the
    hotel rooms, in the car etc. Too conscious of being filmed, they cannot
    be themselves and they try to be funny. And they cannot. It gets
    sillier and sillier but it doesn't get any funny. They display a bunch
    of not interesting, not smart, not original, not funny but spoiled,
    silly kids. 
    
    I have seen many films which show performers in their dressing rooms,
    waiting for the show or doing their things. They are usually either
    casual (i.e. really doing their thing in sincerity) or they are
    interesting or humorous. Beatles were just so boring. I was so
    dissappointed. I should have started with another tape which shows them
    a little matured up, a little later on in their career.
    
    Maybe I missed the point.
    
    Lale
    ps: The tape is now for sale, btw ;-)

    I rented that Video you mentioned first, just to see if it way worth
    buying....and yes it does seem to drag a bit during the dressing room
    sequences. But the performances are {Ed Sullivan} are top notch and 
    interesting to watch. Some funny bits in-between, but there could have
    been a little more editing done on the Video. Notice the film in the
    train, both George/Ringo are playing for the cameras but both John/Paul
    seemed bored with it all.
    
    
    sean.
    

    re .83, I think the problem is that it's become dated.  Back in 1964
    when I was 14 yrs. old, and I saw films of The Beatles clowning around
    I remember that I thought they were quite clever and hilarious.  But,
    what people think of as funny changes with time, and I'm sure I
    wouldn't find it funny now.  It's not just that I'm older, though that
    would be part of it.  It's all the stuff I've watched in between that
    has changed my idea of what is funny, such as Sat Night Live, Woody
    Allen movies, Monty Python, Robin Williams, Billy Crystal, Steve
    Martin, that type of thing.
    
    Lorna
    

    A lot of that Beatles publicity was quite calculated.  It was to the
    band's advantage to appear like just a bunch of fun-loving but clean cut
    English boys.  As far as I can remember, no other band got that sort
    of publicity.  It was out of that public image that the germ of "A Hard
    Day's Night" came.
    
    							Brian

    re .86, yes, but calculated or not, back in 1964 it seemed fresh. 
    Whereas, now, it would appear anything but.
    
    Lorna
    

    ... a lot like notes and noters.  Many try to be funny but it don't
    work.  Many bitch about having a wet dream.
    
    There was some interesting footage of the hotel room stuff.  I saw how
    stupid the DJs were then... with their "hip" phrase of "baby".  The
    Beatles picked up on some of that and made light of it.  Yes, they did
    get bored with much of that.  Who wouldn't?  They didn't have much
    freedeom, and were shuffled from one hotel room to another.  They also
    had to be 'aware' of the press and they played up to the press.  What
    is neat on the tape is the performances, the mobs, etc.  It brings the
    sixties back to those of us who grew up during that period.  And the
    Sullivan footage is great because of the closeups.  The first Sullivan
    show broke records for the largest TV viewing audience ever... over 73
    million people watching.
    
    Most folks remember what they were doing and where they were when JFK
    died.  Most of us remember that Sunday night in the same way, when four
    guys with long hair broke into "All My Loving".  The Beatles first
    performance is/was a bookmark in time.

    Wow, I thought it was great.  The casual atmosphere made it 
    for me.  At one point, you can actually hear John doodling
    the tune to "Strawberry Fields" on the guitar - probably a
    full year or so before he wrote it.  And the Sullivan shows
    are great, especially after having been unavailable for years.

    Ah well, sorry for not bashing.  back to your regular programming...

    Regarding the studied casualness of the lads' antics, it's
    fun to note that John is having none of it.  In the hotel
    room where Murray the K or whoever is sort of making a fool
    of himself on the telephone, John calls him a "wanker" which
    I gather is somewhat uncomplimentary.. You can see his cynical
    attitude about it all and I'm sure he'd find the resulting
    video as distasteful as you!

    Still one of the world's greatest truths:
    
    "It's a fine line between clever and stupid, isn't it?"
    
    			- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    
    Cheers,
    Ken

    I really enjoy The Breeders music. It is usually refered to as
    "alternative" music. I guess you do not care for Belly, Curve,
    Bjork, Cranes, Pixies, etc. B^)
    
    fred deady

    re .93, I like some alternative music, and some I don't like.  It's not
    all exactly the same.  
    
    I agree different strokes for different folks, but this is the bashing
    topic so I assumed this is the place to say what I don't like.
    
    Lorna
    

    Well, the Breeders have an edge over some of those other alternative
    bands, namely their lead guitarist had never played the guitar before
    joining the band!  Has a lot to do with their, eh, "unique" sound,
    IMHO.
    
    As Much as I hate corporate rock, this idea of "non-musicianship"
    that's so hip in alternative circles leaves me a bit cold.  There's
    nothing wrong with competence.
    
    							Brian

re:      <<< Note 26.95 by TECRUS::ROST "Fretting less, enjoying it more" >>>

>    Well, the Breeders have an edge over some of those other alternative
>    bands, namely their lead guitarist had never played the guitar before
>    joining the band!  Has a lot to do with their, eh, "unique" sound,
>    IMHO.

Hmm, I'll have to make an effort to check them out!  Could give me a better
feeling about *my* guitar playing!

adam

    
    	If Lorna hates them, I'll probably love 'em!!  8^)
    
    
    							GTI

    
    
    She'll like 'em if they're cute!

    
    	Well, I like Janet Jackson alot.  8^)
    
    							GTI

    
    Ahem... (Moderator hat on)
    
    Let's tread lightly here folks and use a whole lotta these --> 8) :) 
    
    AdTHANKSvance,
    
    Tim

Re .92:

Lorna, what a terrible thing you've done!

Now I don't even know if I _saw_ .92, or whether I'd want to _respond_, or
_nuthin'_! Deleting your reply it just made it all the more desirable...

Do you s'pose there will ever be any bootleg copies available? Or maybe demo
copies marked "not for resale?"

Gee, maybe there'll be a market for "scalped notes" yet! (Pssst, wanna copy of
an old Tom Janzen note? No? How about Karl Moeller?)

Bob (big <g>, even if a little twisted)

    as john sebastian said at woodstock,
    
    come on people, let's just l-o-v-e one another.
    ;-)  ;-)  ;-)
    
    no more bashing of each other.  bash the artists
    you don't like, but not each other.
    
    if this keeps up, i'll be doing my b.b. king impersonation
    
    'the thrill is gone' from the notes file.
    
    blind willis
    

    
    back to the bashing, kids . . .
                        
    	My "I Hate" list, in no paticular order 
    
    	Phil Collins
    	Andrew Lloyd Weber
    	Bon Jovi
    	Ugly Kid Joe
    	Michael Bolton
    	Ween
    	Richard Marx
    	The Oak Ridge Boys
    	Neil Young
    	2 Live Crew
    	Joni Mitchell
    	Dolly Parton
    	Thomas Dolby's and Howard Jones' last albums
    	
    	note:  this list is my no means all-inclusive ;-)
    
                  			Bashin' Jim
    

    
    
    
    		I used to like Janet Jackson, but after seeing her in
    		concert it was obvious she has less talent than Boy 
    		George.  I think the only reason she is so popular is
    		her "Rythem Nation" BS.  She whispers her songs and
    		relys on the music and back up singers to carry her
    		lack of talent.  
    
    		/a
    
    
    

    ok, group hug......
    
    
    ahhhh, there.
    
    :*}

    I am an early Genesis fan. The emphasis here is on *early*. I love
    Duke, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, Selling England by the Pound,
    Trespass and the others. I also love the noname album which contains
    Mama and 
    
    	"You're looking at me, 
    	I'm looking at you, 
    	it's always the same, 
    	it's a shame, 
    	that's all".
    
    I even enjoyed Invisible Touch, even though it was nowhere near the
    quality of the previous albums.
    
    	"She's got an invisible touch-che"  ;-)
    
    But, I truly hate the lame, sappy, easy listening music Phil Collins
    has been making for the past 5 years. Why doesn't he retire already?
    
    Feel free to defend him.
    
    Lale

    
    Re -.1
    
    	Couldn't agree more, Lale - as John Wesley Harding said once at a
    concert :
    
    	"I used to like Phil Collins, until I realized he was just a big,
    fat, balding *bastard*..."
    
    	I don't know if I'd go *that* far, but he's one of my least
    favorites, along with Richard Marx and Michael Bolton . . .
    
    					Bashing,    Jim

My brother was laughing about a review of the latest Phil Collins album which
was supposed to reveal his "darker" side...

Ha ha ha

Tim

I'd have to say that the worst bands/musicians in history are 
included in this list (starting with the worst):

1. Def Leppard - A bunch of soft-rock posers who dress like
   they listen to loud music and think they're tough.  And
   now their drummer has an excuse for playing lousy...I think
   he's better now with only one arm!

2. Michael Bolton - Yeah, he's talented.  He doesn't write any
   of his own songs, and he sings like a watered-down Joe
   Cocker.  Why do artists like this get so much attention?

3. Motley Crue - another bunch of teeny-bopper poster boys who
   had to start their careers by wearing makeup and psuedo-worshipping
   satan.  Now they have to write lame "baby, I love 'u' " sap to
   pay for maid service.  

4. Yoko Ono - Her undeniable talent can't have anything to do with
   John...could it?

5. Warrant - Hey, you guys wanna make a lot of money?  Wear these 
   leather jackets, scream these cheesy lyrics into a microphone,
   and use lots of scantily clad women in your videos.  Now, take
   a few weeks to learn how to play your instruments, and meet 
   me in the studio next week.  Any questions?

6. New Kids On The Block - 'nuf said I think.

   > 2. Michael Bolton - Yeah, he's talented.  He doesn't write any
   > of his own songs, and he sings like a watered-down Joe
   > Cocker.  Why do artists like this get so much attention?

    I was under the impression that he not only wrote his songs, but was
    even more well-known as a writer of songs for *other people* (Barbara
    Streisand comes to mind...).
    
    The best description I've ever heard of his singing, entered here
    several years ago by an astute observer (sorry, forget who...):
    "Michael Bolton sings like he's trying to pass a loaf of bread".
    
   > 5. Warrant - Hey, you guys wanna make a lot of money?  Wear these 
   > leather jackets, scream these cheesy lyrics into a microphone,
   > and use lots of scantily clad women in your videos.  Now, take
   > a few weeks to learn how to play your instruments, and meet 
   > me in the studio next week.  Any questions?

    I was playing with my band "Network" at the Channel in Boston. We just
    finished our set, and I was walking to the dressing room. Stopped at
    the bar on the way to get a drink. This guy with a generic sort of
    rock 'n roll look walks up to me. "Love your band. Excellent. Really
    different..." Kept gushing superlatives. After he left, I asked the
    bar-tender who he was. "Oh that's so-and-so from Warrant. They're playing
    here tomorrow night, and he came by to check the place out."
    
    They *may* suck... don't know either way... but at least they have
    taste!!!! :-)
    
    Brian

    New Kids On The Block - Geeks..nuff said.
    
    Yoko - and she actually thinks she can sing...
    
    2 Live Crew - sick puppys that have no talent

    this has nothing to do with bashing anyone but I think Im having
    Dejavu'....I read those last two note before...a long time ago !

    You guys know my strong views about censorship, but if there ever was
    an argument FOR censorship, Yoko is it!

    
    
    
    
    Serious Ward Cleaver tone here:
    
    Hey, I know you're going for yuks with that Yoko stuff, but that's the
    way repression starts.  Who needs censorship when you can just not buy
    the record, just not listen to the tape, or just not buy the book?  Do
    that Nancy Reagan thing and just say "No"...  I'm not a big Yoko fan,
    but that story about her installation & first meeting with John
    establishes her as a true artist, IMHO.  The last thing an artist (you,
    Blicko) needs to even jokingly suggest is art censorship.
    
    End of monologue...
    

    
    
    Oh, sorry, I just realized I was in the BASHING topic... never mind!