Conference mr1pst::music

    Best record?  
    
    
    	Cosmo's Factory

         Yes, Cosmo is A GREAT !
    
         Have you heard Green River , also?  It's one I listen a lot...
    
    

    Is Stu the one who was in the group Southern Pacific ('A Girl Like
    Emmilou', 'New Shade of Blue', 'Anyway the Wind Blows', ...) for the
    past few years???
    
    Tom.

   I have Cosmo's factory back home, and I have Chronicile over here in
Germany.  Does someone outhere know what there doing today?????? 

                                                                        -dave-

    John Fogarty also did some very good solo stuff.  His Centerfield album
    from a few years back is excellent.
    
    Dermot

    Re: .6
    
    Tom Fogerty died a few years ago, I forget what from.
    
    Stu Cook as previosuly mentioned went to the top of the country charts
    with Southern Pacific, not sure if they are still together or not.
    
    John Fogerty issued four post-CCR albums, "Blue Ridge Rangers", "John
    Fogerty", "Centerfield" and "Eye of the Zombie".  After the success of
    "Centerfield", "Zombie" stiffed and there has been no new album since.
    
    Not sure about Doug Clifford.  He did some production work after
    leaving CCR but I haven't heard about him for many years.
    
    						Brian

      Yeah,  unfortunately,  Tom died 6-set-90, from tuberculosis.
      I got an excellent album of him, from '74: Myopia.  
      Has anyone also got there?  It's a very country styled one...
      There's also the Precious Gems, released on CD, as far as I know,
    only in Germany. (no date).                                     

      Stu Cook, with the Southern Pacific, recorded Zuma (88) and County
      Line (89).  Also I don't know if they are linked.
      
      I don't know for sure if Doug of Stu recorder with Don Henderson
    Band, and album in '74 and red Hot in '77).
     
      I've read that Doug recorded Cosmo (72).
    
      John recorded in 73 the Blue Ridge Rangers, mentioned the note
    before;
    
    Tom's albums, as long as I know:
     - 72:  Tom Fogerty
     - 73:  Excalibur
     - 73:  Zephyr National
     - 74:  Myopia
     - 81:  Deal it Out
     - 77:  Ruby (with the band "Ruby")
     - 78:  Rock and Roll Madness 
    
    
     Any further information anyone can give, is Great! Tx a LOT ! 
    
    Dorival.
     
    
     

    Southern Pacific with Stu Cook recorded 5 albums:
    'Southern Pacifc' (around 86)
    'Killbilly Hill' (87)
    'Zuma'
    'County Line'
    'Greatest Hits' (90)
    
    Southern Pacific dissolved in 1991.
    
    Tom
    

    
     John said in a recent Rolling Stone interview that he is
    finishing up a new solo album. He seems to think this one
    will have more of a Creedence sound or feel because he feels
    his writing and playing feels more like it did back then
    (whatever that means). That was a great interview, he talked
    a lot about Creedence.
    
     He performed at the Rock and Roll hall of fame inductions
    this year, and even though Stu Cook and Doug Clifford were 
    in the audience, he did Creedence song without them. He said
    it was due to them taking Saul Whatsisnames' side on the
    lawsuits in recent years. Too bad, that would have been an
    interesting performance.
    
     Creedence: one of the best American rock bands ever.
    
    
     Paul W.

    It's nice hearing news on John...  Hope this record appears soon.
    
    What makes me like SO MUCH Creedence is that their songs were purely 
    concerned to Rock as harmony;  in an age when most of the bands would
    create conceitual albums, they were producing the old and good Rock'n'
    Roll (but of course, the conceitual ones had a great importance, too).
    Many albums from other bands in that time would start being political
    from the sleeves, not to mentions the lyrics inside...
    
    It seems to me that the CCR's song which is more concerned it Fortunate
    Son, which sounds like a (slight) protest agains Vietnam War. Am I
    right?  Pls write informing me...
    
    Other doubt:  could anyone pls clear up to me what is "Lodi" ?
    Their song says: I'm stuck in a Lodi again...
    
    Waiting on news,
    Dorival.
    

    Re: .11
    
    "Fortunate Son" is indeed about the draft.
    
    Lodi is the name of a town.  Actually there are a few, one in New
    Jersey and one in California, there may be others.  The use of the name
    is to suggest that the singer is stuck playing dives in out of the way
    towns.
    
    							Brian

    
    
    conceitual  =>  conceptual ?  (in .10)  I guess it all depends on the
    artist and whether you like him/her.  For example, if Barry Manilow did
    a series of songs that told a story...which would it be?
    
    

    Tx, Stewart:
    
    Ok  I've made a mistake .10 (conceptual).  It's because English is not
    my mother-language.  (1000 sorries).
    
    What I tried to mean is that at that time, for ex., Progressive Rock
    was worried about creating new points of view to sounds (and many did
    it too well!) but it seems that this procedure was turning into a must;
    the ones who would make it differently (or, better said, who would be
    not escaping roots) realy did also Good work.
    
    Did I manage to be clearer this time?  If not,  pls let's keep on
    talking on it..
    
    Tx, again,
    Dorival
    
    
    

    This is Dorival, again. Pls, Mod, could you correct the title of last
    one?  I've type ex mistakenly.  Write it [conceptual?] or any related,
    ok?
    Tx.
    

    Maybe this should be in the lyrics note but I put it in here  in the
    hope that a CCR fan might be able to help. I would like the lyrics for
    'Bad Moon Rising' and 'Proud Mary' if anyone has them. Please send them
    to POLAR::LARKIN. 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Gerry

    
    
    <rathole alert>
    
    Sorry, Dorival, I didn't mean to pick on your writing - I admire anyone
    that attempts to work in their non-native language.  What I liked was
    how neatly conceitual replaced conceptual - and that made me think
    about how some conceptual albums (Yes - Topographic Oceans, for example)
    might be viewed as "conceitual" efforts.  

    Hi, Stewart.
    Tx a lot for for recognising my effort on English understanding.
    About 'conceit/concept' issue, now I've looked better on English-
    English dictionary, and noticed more clearly the meaning of those two
    words. 
    _-_-_-_-_
    
    I'd like to have our friend here talking about the 'Pirates' recordings
    of CCR;  I've got a Italian CD which I got las week;  in the afternoon,
    I'll write the name of it, in case anyone else knows.
    Waiting on more news on this and other subjects,
    
    Dorival.
    
                        

    
     I saw Tom Fogerty on a TV interview once and he pointed out
    something i'n never thought about; that so many of John's
    songs aren't love songs. Once I thought about it, he's right.
    
     Examples: Bad Moon Rising, Lodi, Green River, Lookin Out My
    Back Door, It Came Out of The Sky, Fortunate Son, Up Around
    The Bend, Tombstone Shadow: the list goes on and on.
    
     Paul W.

    Fantasy released (that's for Brasil) in 1980 a record collecting most
    of Pre-Creedence singles released, when the band was called Gollywogs.
    Does anyone know any other songs from that period?
    I'll try to get the LP at my home, and suplly the songs names.
    See you soon,
    dorival.
    

    ref. .13 & .17
    
    John, I never before realized that you put double space after a period.
    It is an important rule. It is as important as :
    
    - hyphenate co-ordination
    - do not hyphenate rollout
    - capitalize System Implementation
    - do not capitalize software engineering
    - don't put a space before a colon or a semi-colon
    
    We need a technical writer here. Wanna apply ?
    
    Lale

    
>    We need a technical writer here. Wanna apply ?
    
    Maybe, if I can just fax my work in from the beach here in sunny So CA. 
    I prefer to write for machines (software), though - much less critical
    audience and the rules are a lot simpler than those for natural
    language operations.  I guess I should ask how much this job pays,
    though, huh?  I mean, if it's a tough job, it probably pays well,
    right?
    

    Hi, folks. 
    
    In fact, I did not quite understand the purpose of .21 & .22 .  
    But, as far as I could get, someone is caring too much on how someone
    else would write on Notes.  
    Just to say an opinion, I guess style (including writing on a somewhat
    limited system) is something very personal.
    So, once we understand well what each one says, there's no need for too
    much correctness.
    Not to mention that the most important subject here is Creedence...
    
    Tx, and I really do not mean to censor anyone here... Just to give my
    opinion.
    
    Dorival.
     

    Dorival, it was a joke. I like heckling John. I was picking on him
    because of his impeccable writing. Sorry to have cluttered up your
    CCR note, but sometimes it is ok to divert from music and joke a
    little. I consider all the fellow noters to be my friends. So it is one
    big "freund kreis" here and nobody pays any attention to how another
    writes. I did notice John's compliance with standard writing rules
    because, in my last assignment, my documents were being edited before
    they were sent to desk top publishing. I received a copy of the
    editorial corrections so that next time I would do my best to leave
    less job to the editors and desk top publishing. I am an engineer, so
    you can imagine how I write ;-)
    
    Lale

    
    I noticed some time ago that Status Quo's 'Rockin All Over The World'
    was composed by a Fogerty. Is this Tom Fogerty? Was it originally a CCR
    record or what?
    
    The thing that really impresses me about CCR stuff is that most of it
    works well on an acoustic guitar.
    
    Richard

    Hi, Friend Lale...
    
    ( reply to .24 )
    
    So, I guess now it's everything ok, once it was only a joke between two 
    old-known friends...  it really makes me fell much better about our
    note.  And indeed I appreciate having funny comments in this space.
    Keep on always with all that friendship.
    (also, once I'm a new noter, this might have caused my misunderstandig
    of your funny sarcarsm, so sorry fur not getting it ...).
    
    ( reply to .24 )
    
    Tx, Richard, for more info on it.  I have that Quo LP at home, but
    really never noticed the credits on the stamp. Also, my LP player has
    been out of order for quite a long, so I've not heard vynil lately.
    I'm gonna check out that on the week end (that's when I go home) and
    talk here after.
    Should anyone know something on it, highly appreciated.
    
    Dorival.
    
    

    More on CCR/Quo:   also, Rockin' all over the Worls does not apper in
    any CCR record or recorded show.
    
    Anyhow, I'm gonna look for some other unknown (for me, at least) play
    with it.
    
    Dorival.

> I noticed some time ago that Status Quo's 'Rockin All Over The World'
> was composed by a Fogerty. Is this Tom Fogerty? Was it originally a CCR
> record or what?
  
It was on John Fogerty's solo LP that came out in the early 70's. (The same
one that had "Almost Saturday Night", another brilliant song....)

alan

    I'm gonna be looking for this one, too,  in order to complete more 
    and more and more my collection.
    
    Thx a log for the Great info.
    
    dorival.
    

    The band was The Gollywogs before changed into Creedence.  BTW, what
    does Gollywog mean?
    Also, could anyone help me to know what do they mean for these words in
    "It came out of the Sky" ? :
    
      (...)
    - Spiro came and made a speed about raising the Mars tax (Spiro? Mars
      gas?
      (...)
    - and Ronnie the Popular  said it was a communis plot (Who was Ronnie?)
      (...)
    - Walter and Eric said they'd put him on a network TV show (who are
      they, too?
    
    
    Sorry for using your precious patience... that'll help a non-native
    English speaker understand the lyrics and the language better.
    
    Tx,
    Dorival.
    

re: .30

>    The band was The Gollywogs before changed into Creedence.  BTW, what
>    does Gollywog mean?

I believe "gollywog" is another name for a tadpole (the little swimming
critters that grow up into frogs).

>    - Walter and Eric said they'd put him on a network TV show (who are
>      they, too?
    
Sounds like it might be referring to Walter Cronkite and Eric Sevareid (sp?),
famous former TV news anchors.
    

    are you sure you're not mixing pollywog (and polliwog)
     with gollywog?
    
    i'd guess gollywog is made up.
    
    willie

re: .32

>    are you sure you're not mixing pollywog (and polliwog)
>     with gollywog?
    
Whoops, I think you're right!

-Hal

    According to note 874.3 ("Looking for Enid Blyton") in the conference
    KOLFAX::BOOKS, "Gollywogs" were trouble-making black characters in 
    English children's books by Enid Blyton.  It sounds like the books have
    since been banned in many British schools.
    
    I think this is also where the racist term "Wog" originates from.
    
    I don't know if this is the source of the pre-CCR group's name.
    
    - Dave

    RE: .30
    
    Spiro T. Agnew was the vice-president of the US from 1969 through about 
    1973.  (Richard Nixon was president.)
    I suspect the line is "made a speech" instead of "made a speed".  I
    don't what what the "Mars tax" reference is.
    
    "Ronnie" is probably staunch anti-communist Ronald Reagan, who was 
    governor of the State of California at the time of the Nixon adminstration.
    (CCR was from California.)
    
    I agree with Hal's "Walter and Eric".
    
    - Dave

    Yes, after having the lyrics, I went listening to the song
    more carefully and noticed it was "speech", not 'speed';
    
    tx for all these details!
    Dorival
    

    
    I was talking to my brother on the phone and we were bringing eachother
    up to date on some of the new music we have purchased. I mentioned that
    I got the Best Of set and he asked me if I have ever seen them,
    live. I said "of course not, they broke up ages ago". He said "but you
    have seen them live, well, sorta". Me "no way", him "yes way".
    
    As it turns out, CCR was the opening act of the Blood Sweat and Tears
    concert he took me to when I was 11, the one I slept straight through.
    
    Sigh...
    
    Lale

This note's been dead for some time.  Maybe it can be revived.

Early on, around Note .3 or .4, a discussion was started about 
the late Tom Fogerty and projects he worked on post-CCR.  No one
mentioned the album he did with Merle Saunders sometime around 1974.  It
did real well.  Merle Saunders was very popular with the segment
of the rock audience who leaned toward jazz.  I think he's a saxaphonist.

Anyway, I feel like an old fart.  I saw CCR four times between October
of 1970 and July of 1972.  By '72, Tom was out of the band.  But CCR
still had their audience standing on the backs of their chairs and screaming.
Also, by '72 CCR had gone through some changes, the other guys were
writing - or trying to - and John had gone back to his straightforward
rock roots.  I'll never forget it, he wore a tight-fitting green suit.
He was dressed to kill and he tore the roof off the Boston Garden.  The
flannel shirt, bandana, and 501 Levis were gone, but the music was in
tact.

Evidently, Tom was the original leader of the Golliwogs, which is a form
of devil, and the early CCR.  In an interview, way back Tom said, "After
performing for awhile, it became obvious that John had 'a sound.'  Actually,
it was the "sound" that won recording contracts. This sound made John, one of
the truly great American songwriters, the official leader of the band.
This transfer of leadership was something Tom never got over.  It's no
mystery why he left the band.  Also, John is the first to admit that he is
a perfectionist, and very tough to work with.

I think John Fogerty will go down as a truly classic lyricist.  I thought 
that all along, as a young kid.  Then CCR and John the soloist went away.
And 15 years later, John came up with the lyrics and the music to what might
slowly relplace "Take Me Out To The Ballgame."  That is "Centerfield."
I love and hate the idea all at once.  Because "Centerfield" is pure
bubblegum, commercial fare.  But it's also good.

Saw the people standin'
Thousand years in chains,
Somebody said it's diffenent now,
But look it's just the same.

Pharros spin the message,
Round and round the troops,
They could save a million people
But how can I tell you...

Wrote a song for everyone,
Wrote a song for truth,
Wrote a song for everyone,
When I couldn't even talk to you.

-SB

    Evidently some version of Creedence is back on the road, with Elliot
    Easton (formerly of the Cars) on guitar!  Got this from a friend of
    Elliot's, not sure who else is in the band.
    
    /rick
    

    
    	Elliot Easton ... maybe this band could be good after all.
    
    	8^)
    

.39>  If the Easton replaces J Fogerty, forget it.  It'd be like
Paul, George, and Ringo going on the road as the Beatles. 

.40> Who are you talking about, the Cars? 

    
    	Obviously I meant CCR.
    

		Obviously I knew (read) that.  No Like CCR?

    RE: .41
    
    >> It'd be like
    >> Paul, George, and Ringo going on the road as the Beatles.
    
    More like Ringo going out on the road as the Beatles...
    
    Jim

    >> It'd be like
    >> Paul, George, and Ringo going on the road as the Beatles.
    
    >More like Ringo going out on the road as the Beatles...
    
    Agreed. Elliot Easton touring with CCR is like Kenny G touring with the
    Modern Jazz Quartet.
    
    Dom

    
    	Geez, give him a chance before you pound him into the ground,
    	eh?  I'm sure Elliot [although I think he's only got 1 "l" in
    	his name] is perfectly capable of backing down a couple notches
    	to fit in more with the talent in this band.  8^)
    
    	Some/most guitarists can be quite versatile if they want to.
    

    Well, I found out a little more info.  The "new" CCR is the original
    drummer and bassist with Easton on lead guitar and a Fogerty sound-alike
    on vocals.  I should get a chance to see some live footage of these
    guys soon; will report back here when I do.

    As Shawn says, don't underestimate Easton's talent.  Even if you don't
    particularly like the Car's music, Elliot's guitar work in that band
    was a cut above the crowd; he's got chops AND soul to spare.  Not that
    chops are a prerequisite for CCR stuff, of course.  It'll be interesting
    to see where they're taking it.
    
    /rick
    

    
    	Wait a minute, are you AGREEING with me?
    
    	First time for everything, I guess.  8^)
    

    you must have me confused with the other rick calcagni :-)
    
    /rick_who_really_doesn't_remember_ever_disagreeing_with_slabounty
    

Having a band called CCR without Fogerty is like any number of
other bands I can think of without their leaders.  Whether you
like these bands or not:


Talking Heads without David Byrne
Police without Sting
The Kinks without Ray Davies
The Who without Pete Townsend
The Doors without Morrison
The Experience without Hendrix
Jethro Tull without Ian Anderson
Shenandoah without Arlo Guthrie

Some stick together and do all right, like Little Feat - they're good, but with
Lowell George they were "Little Feat."

It's not just with music, either.  I like Jay Leno, but the Tonight
Show, I think, sucks since Carson left.

re: .50

>Having a band called CCR without Fogerty is like any number of
>other bands I can think of without their leaders.  Whether you
>like these bands or not:
>
>
>Talking Heads without David Byrne
>Police without Sting
>The Kinks without Ray Davies
>The Who without Pete Townsend
>The Doors without Morrison
>The Experience without Hendrix
>Jethro Tull without Ian Anderson
>Shenandoah without Arlo Guthrie
>
>Some stick together and do all right, like Little Feat - they're good, but with
>Lowell George they were "Little Feat."

Little Feat hasn't tried to stay the same, though.  They continued to evolve.
An awful lot of their sound was the groove, anyway, and that doesn't tend to
come from one person.

I mostly agree with you, though, except I have no idea who in the world
"Shendnoah without Arlo Guthrie" might be.  I thought he did all of his work
solo?

An interesting case study on the subject is the Band without Robbie Robertson.
While Robbie wrote the bulk of their songs (and an awful lot of good ones,
I might add), he didn't sing any of the lead, and his understated lead
guitar style (which I really like) didn't really stick out that much as 
part of the band's (no pun intended) signature sound.   The current RR-less
Band sounds very much like the original Band, but I doubt that they'll really
go anywhere significant musically without RR's songwriting.

-Hal

> "Shendnoah without Arlo Guthrie" might be.  I thought he did all of his work
>solo?

Shenandoah is - or at least was for years - Guthrie's band.  They tour(ed)
without Guthrie sometimes.

As for Little Feat, I just lost interest in them after George died.  They're
still pretty popular, though.

I agree with you about Robertson.  It was the movie, "The Last Waltz"
that made me realize how talented he is. 

-S