Conference mr1pst::music

    Bottom line?
    
    The walls, which are too close together, reverberate like a bathroom.
    
    It's probably more smokey than the World Trade Center last Friday.
    
    The drinks are expensive and watered-down.
    
    THey tell you the show starts at 8:30 but it usually doesn't start
    til after 10, often MUCH later (11:45 one time).  Often the doors
    don't even open by then and you have to wait outside in the rain
    and/or the cold.
    
    Before the show starts they blast you with canned music so you have
    little to do but stand there and look at your friends - conversation
    is not possible unless you can sign or read lips.
    
    They pack people in like Sardines (did you think there were seats? 
    Silly boy!) and in most places you have to look over people and can't
    see well.
    
    Basically, it's the most inaptly named theatre on earth.  It's not a
    "Paradise", it's a "hell".
    
    And... sigh... unfortunately, all my favorite artists, almost without
    exception end up playing there: Steve Morse, the Dregs, Larry Carlton,
    Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Keith Emerson, Adrian Belew, Renaissance,
    Kansas, etc.  It's rather amazing how all my favorites end up there.
    
    IMHO, it is so bad, that I made a promise to SKIP all but the most
    very important special shows there.  I do this, even though these
    are artists I would normally see EVERYTIME they are in town without
    exception.
    
    	db

    Oh come on db it's not that bad, it's worse!!  I just hope you don't
    have flat feet or your at least 6' tall.  It is very smokey and you
    will be standing the whole night and I do mean the whole night!!
    
    One plus is you will never get closer to the performer unless your
    sitting on his/her lap.
    
    				Bart
    
    PS: get your drinks early because once you leave your sacred spot
    that's all she wrote!!!!

    I used to like it when I was younger and would tolerate the crap
    one has to go through as described earlier. Forget it now. If
    you prepare yourself for the worst then you'll probably enjoy
    yourself.
    
    Jim C.
    
    BTW - Saw Hot Tuna one time at the Paradise, 8:30 show, they walked
    on stage at 11:30. Lou Reed was great though, came on pretty much
    on time, played a long time, sounds was better than usual and I had
    a real seat with a good view.
    
    
    

    Aw, the previous notes are being too kind; IT'S WORSE!!!
    
    But then again, it's no worse than a lot of rock clubs I've been in.
    And as db says, all the people you want to see come there so once in
    a while you just gotta take your punishment and go.
    
    /rick

It's worse now than it used to be.  When they had tables and chairs I
didn't mind hanging out for 3 hours (he said sarcastically) before the 
music came on.  And back then you could even sit in the front room(comedy) 
and wait to get into the back room (music part).  Now you can stand in the
cold.  

BUT in defense of the place;  if it is the only place I can go see Wishbone
Ash or Ultravox or the Motels or Ronnie Montrose or any of a number of other 
bands then it must be good right?  

ha!
bob

ps.  shouldn't this be in the bashing note? 

    > When they had tables and chairs
    
    I went to only ONE show where they had tables and chairs.  It was
    more tolerable (make that "less intolerable") and so I asked the 
    bartender if that was going to be the way they go in the future.
    
    His response was something like "No, just for the classier shows".
    
    In my book, any show at the Paradise does NOT qualify for the label
    "classy".
    
    	db

    geez are you people old .......and i don't mean in age....i'm not fond
    of the place but if you figure that the paradise headliners usually go
    on about 11pm...which is earlier than any other headlining act to take
    the stage in boston, then you can plan accordingly.....if these are 
    your favorite performers then there really is no reason to miss them
    .....a. starr and i had a perfectly wonderful time at Arc Angels...
    crowded smoky room and all....got there about 5 minutes before the band
    went on....(around 11)...wormed our selves through the crowd and
    watched the show from about 10 feet from the stage.......had a great
    time...........................;').................../k

    Good shows I remember from the Paradise:
    
    Jane Siberry, 1988	     -	Jane was in her "electric" phase (as
    				opposed to the more recent "acoustic" one).
    				Awesome show, and they had seats!  This one
    				*was* classy.
    
    Swimming Pool Q's, 1981  -	Another show with seats; a one hit wonder
    				(remember "Little Misfit"?) but I think
    				these folks were underappreciated in their
    				time.
    
    Ten Years After, 1989    -	Stood about 5 feet from Alvin Lee the whole
    				night, despite a constant crush and several
    				near fights.  But hell, it was a great show.
    
    Then there was the time Robert Fripp punched out my friend for taking
    his photograph...

    I consider it a special brand of arrogance for a performer/promoter to
    start a show after 10pm on a weekday night.
    
    Not everyone is independently wealthy, or a college kid with no AM
    classes, or between jobs, etc.  Some people have obligations that
    require their attendance shortly after sunrise most weekday mornings,
    and it is generally those obligations that enable them to 'support the
    arts' in the first place.
    
    I recently thought I would like to see a new act that was on tour, and
    was fortunate enough to be staying at a hotel 45 minutes from where
    they were booked.  Fantastic!  Come to find out that this place was not
    a bar but a venue that sold tickets, and the doors wouldn't open until
    9:30pm, then the first act, then the band I wanted to see.  Nevermind.
    (This was a weekday night.)
    
    Add to this all of my (and others') previous comments about noisy
    patrons, smoke, lines, high prices, fights, parking, etc., etc. and 
    I'd just as soon stay home and enjoy the CD.
    \Gary

    I think it is a special brand of arrogance for a show to be listed
    as an 8:30 show when there is never (apparently) any intention to
    start the show anytime before 10.
    
    I've been to the "Paradise" at least 10 times and not ONE show every
    started before 10pm (and I'm talking about the opening acts!).
    
    The "reason" not to go to the Paradise is that it is usually such
    an awful experience that I don't end up enjoying the show.
    
    And if you really want to get into, ask me about the time I went
    there the first day I got my contact lens and what it was like trying
    to survive all that smoke.

    Perhaps we should change the title of this note to:
    
    		"Paradise Theatre Bashing"
    
    or better yet:
    
    		"Knockin' the Paradise"
    
    ;-)

    it could be the performer/promoter who schedules the time...it could
    also be the club...seems to me that they might want to dictate the time
    that the headlining act goes on in order to keep people drinking in
    the bar......if the headline act goes on early, all the people clear
    out when they're through.... and the bar doesn't make any money.......
                                ............../k

    I'm almost sure it's the club.  It's the club that advertises the
    8:30 start time, and EVERY show starts late (which rules out it
    being the performers or promoters).

    Smoking in any enclosed area is disgusting, & The Paradise has a high
    concentration of both bodies & smoke. I won't see "just anyone" at that
    place, but THe Alarm were dynamite. They really are a large arena band.
    Then there was one of my all time favorite concerts anywhere by anyone.
    Probably around '82 or so I saw Al Stewart (with Peter White & two guys
    from Berkeley SM on guitars & sax). They had put in bench like seats (I
    guess this was a "classy" show.) & the view was fine, but the sound was
    heaven. I don't think I've heard such audio quality (not to mention
    virtuosity) in any live show before or since. I have since seen him at
    Nightstage, & though way above average, the sound didn't measure up to
    that night in the Paradise. I average maybe one Paradise trip every
    year and a half. 
    					-Paul
      

    I don't find the Paradise to be better or worse than the other original
    rock clubs in Boston; all start late; all are smoky; all are crowded;
    all make you stand up (well, Nightstage mixes and matches "sit-down"
    and "stand-up" shows).
    
    I used to be really annoyed at the "Show start at 8" on Paradise
    tickets, but they changed that about 3 or 4 years ago to "Doors open at
    8".  Just about every show I've been to there in the last couple of
    years got going by 9:00 or 9:30 at the latest.  Main acts are
    usually on before 11, unless some local radio station is broadcasting 
    the show live in which case they start at 11 on the dot.  
    
    Seems to me the Paradise is similar in start-times to the Channel, 
    Nightstage and Avalon (except for "special early show"s).  And they start 
    *much* earlier than Axis, where the doors usually don't even open until 
    10:00.
                                      
    I guess it's not clear to me why the Paradise seems to be the object of
    venom here when every original rock club I can think of in Boston is
    guilty of the same sins.
    
    				- Paul

Well, I'll put in a good word for the Paradise anyways! I think that, with
the exception of the Club Casino at Hampton Beach, the Paradise is the best
night club in Boston. (Well, Nightstage is also very good, but they don't
get very many acts that interest me.)

The starting times never bothered me; just call the club the day of the
show and ask when the band goes on, and they'll tell you the exact time. No
problem. 

Crowded and smoky? Sure, but no more than any other club that has a good band. 
It's part of going to a club - I don't like it, but I expect it and I deal 
with it.

Some of the best shows I've seen in my life were at the Paradise - in fact,
probably more there than at any other single venue. People like Stevie
Ray Vaughn, Altered Images, O.M.D, Twisted Sister/Queensryche double bill,
Guns and Roses, Georgia Satellites, Marshall Crenshaw, Billy Joel, Peter 
Frampton, Rockpile, REM... and those are just a few off the top of my head!

Good sound system, good lights, relatively good sightlines, reasonable ticket
prices, and the best bookings in New England - I don't know what more you 
can expect from a club in these times.....

alan

    I'm rather surprised that anyone would think the Paradise was
    comparable to the Channel.
    
    The Channel has:
    
    a) A much better room acoustically speaking
    b) A much higher ceiling which is better for the smoke
    c) A much larger area in front of the stage (more "good" viewpoints)
    d) A much larger number of charis and tables
    e) A much better parking arrangement
    f) A much higher stage (better view)
    g) A much larger stage which reduces set changeover time
    h) A much quieter volume at which they play canned music in between
       sets and if that wasn't enough
    i) A bunch of places to go to escape the noise and smoke
    j) Better access to the bar
    k) They open the doors much earlier so you don't have to wait in the
       cold
    l) Lower ticket prices
    m) A much larger and less totally disgusting bathroom.  The Paradise
       restroom is so small and so packed you practically have to rub butts
       with some other slobs to take a leak (some of you may like that I 
       guess)
    n) The Channel is IMHO MUCH better about showcasing local talent
    o) Bands go on MUCH earlier there (I've never walked in BEFORE the
       1st band was on; at the 'Dise, as late as I've come I've always
       had to wait at least a half hour before a band came on)
    
    Believe me, I could go on, but my supper's ready and the more I talk
    about the 'Dise, the colder it gets and it ruins my appetite besides.
    
    ;-)

    Maybe the Paradise is comparable to other clubs that feature local
    bands and smaller acts, but it sure wasn't as good as other places that
    feature comparable acts like the Channel or, even better, Nightstage. 
    My favorite shows there were back when they had the seats and tables
    bolted to the floor - a Good Rats gig (though it was the semi-ersatz
    Rats at the end of their career) and a great show by the Roches.  I
    haven't been there in a few years, though.

I almost *never* go hear a band live anymore.  I guess I am too old :-)  Back 
in my college days (this is REALLY going to date me!) I saw Iron Butterfly
and Peter, Paul, and Mary live in the university armory.  We had seats and it
was great.  Later, I saw Blood, Sweat, and Tears in a Chicago nightclub. Dinner
first and then the show afterwards.  I could almost touch David Clayton-Thomas
and the trumpets almost blasted us out of the place.  The tables were packed
pretty close but we had seats and it was cosy.  I heard a lot of good shows in
Chicago in those days.

Recently we went to the Nyon Folk Festival and heard Paul Simon in concert.  We
arrived hours early and tried to guard enough space that I could stand it (I
am extremely claustrophobic).  The show was great but as soon as it started 
everybody stood up and we had to stand through the whole thing.  My twelve 
year old son could only see when one of us held him.

There've been many really great groups up in Lausanne and I'd love to go see
them but I simply can't see standing there for hours on end (says this old
gramma :-)  Best is to sit home and watch it on the tube (when they choose to
broadcast these things).

ccb

    RE: .10  Please tell us about the Robert Fripp episode !!
     

    re .19: (BLICKSTEIN)
    
    Actually, I agree with much of what you say about the Channel (I 
    *really* like the sound there and love the fact that you can get away
    from the stage area if you want to), but I'll take exception to what 
    you said about:
    
    	- Start times.  Yes, the Channel tends to have bands start earlier
    	  but they also have 3 or 4 bands playing (as opposed to the usual
    	  2 bands at the Paradise).  I find that headliners at the Channel 
    	  go on later than at the Paradise although the overall show may 
    	  start earlier.
    
    	- Ticket prices.  Looking at ticket prices for shows I'm going to
    	  at both clubs this month, both of the Channel shows are over $10.  
    	  Of the 3 Paradise shows, 2 are under $10 and 1 is over $10.  All of
    	  these are national acts.
    
    				- Paul

    If I'm seeing a great band most of these things are moot 
    points. I tend to get caught up in the music rather than the 
    environment. The last show I saw at the Paradise was Midnight
    Oil, and it could've be the town dump and it still would've
    a rippin' show. I mean, both of the places are smokey, dank,
    hellholes. Your average breeding ground for great rock and 
    roll.;-) However...
    
    I don't know about the new Channel, but at the old version, the 
    headline act almost always went on at 11:35. Like clockwork. 
    Add a healthy set to that, and it makes for a late night. 
    
    Maybe they've improved the house sound system at the Channel, 
    but whatever they used to have was atrocious. Or maybe the 
    house soundman was deaf. I'll have to check it out again, but
    I can't ever remember the sound at the Channel being better than
    that of the Paradise (excepting the canned music).
    
    -Tom

    >     If I'm seeing a great band most of these things are moot points.
    
    I used to think that the place didn't matter if the band was great.
    But that was before going to the "Paradise".  
    
    Those of you who know me well, will appreciate the weight of the
    next statement:
    
    		I have skipped Dregs shows there.
    
    Those of you who don't know me well... well... look at my node-name.

    re: .20 Good
    
    Another place that features "comparable acts" is the Berklee
    Performance Center.
    
    Absolutely NO COMPARISON!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Almost all of the artists I listed earlier have also played the
    Berklee.   I have personally begged Steve Morse to not play the
    Paradise.
    
    The sound in the john at Berklee is better than any place at the 'Dise
    (and it's probably cleaner than the kitchen at the 'Dise).
    
    Only way I could imagine the Berklee could being seen as inferior
    is if I was a smoker: it's not allowed at Berklee.  Something about
    being for comfort of your fellow concert-goers, a concern that seems
    foreign to the 'Dise.
    
    	db

    My favorite club "listening" experiences have been at Nightstage.
    I have never been to a show there that started past 8:30; they
    typically schedule two shows for big acts.  I've never had a bad
    seat, never had a hassle, it's intimate, and typically both the
    sound and the performances there are stellar.  What could be better?
    You can't even mention the Paradise in the same breath as Nightstage
    imo.  Unfortuntately, as someone else said, Nightstage hasn't been
    getting many decent bookings lately.  There was a time a few years ago
    when they were hot, but it's been pretty poor for a while now.
    
    Hey Cheryl, re the Iron Butterfly/Peter-Paul-Mary show, who opened???
    
    For the person who asked about Fripp; this was back with the League of
    Crafty Genetleman band.  My buddy spotted Fripp before the show in the
    passageway between the front bar and the performance room, grabbed his
    camera and snapped a shot.  Fripp immediately came over and demanded the
    film; when he refused, physical force ensued.  What fun!
    
    Hey, anyone ever been to the Living Room in Providence.  My one
    experience there was even worse than the Paradise!  It was an Emerson,
    <somebody>, and Palmer show.  Doors opened at 8; the opening act,
    a local comedian(!) came on at 11:30(!!!).  Poor guy, the crowd got 
    real ugly real fast.
    
    /rick

    I haven't been to the "New" Channel, but FYI, I saw the old Channel
    sound system for sale in a want ad somewhere a couple of months ago.
    -Paul

    Sounds like the Paradise could use some good ol' American competition.
    I'm glad I ran across this string, I want to go see Black 47 tomorrow
    night but now I don't think I'll bother.  Too bad, I hear they're
    tough.  Lindsey Buckingham's coming on the 26th, too, supposed to be 
    a great show.

    Re Nightstage, I read in the paper a few weeks back they are beefing
    up their lineup and bringing in a lot more folks.  Keep an eye out.
    A friend saw Gamalon there a few weeks back and said it was awesome.

    Re the Living Room, I saw Todd Rundgren there a few years back.  It
    was basically a dive, very hot (summertime, no air), I don't remember
    seeing seats but then I was up front standing.  It wasn't too awful
    but you get the picture.

    A club cannot please everybody all the time. I personally can't stand
    going to concerts with seats. Standing gives the occasion so much more
    atmosphere (and you can cram in lots more people!). As a smoker, the
    smoke in these places doesn't worry too much, but I can sympathise with
    non-smokers. 
    Advertising the show to start at 8.30 and then starting at 10:30
    onwards is a bit dodgy, but if it happens regularly, get wise and turn
    up at 10:00. In England, most venues have to be finished by 11pm due to
    the alcohol licence thing and noise to surrounding area (especially in
    London). I was suprised when I saw The Alarm at a club in Detriot, and
    they delayed the bands coming on because the Pistons were in the
    play-offs on the TV and it had gone into overtime! 
    
    Finally, dancing is so much easier when there's no seats about!
    
    Ian

I've been to the Paradise a lot.  I would GO there in a minute if I 
liked the band....

I can say that in the same breath as I can say "I think it could be better."

As for memorable acts there?  Todd,  The Motels,  Ultravox (pre Midge), 
The Plasmatics :), Galaxy 500,  Hot Tuna, Wishbone Ash, David Johanson,
and on.

I still go there too!
bob

ps.  there was a time when the tables and chairs were bolted to the floor...

    From what I've heard, bolting tables and chairs to the floor when the
    Plasmatics are in town is a damned good idea!! They got arrested once,
    if I remember for setting fire to a car on stage!!
    
    Ian

    re .25
    
    You'd skip the band you worship just because you don't like the venue
    they're playing at?  
    
    Where's the little :-)'s?
    

    
    Well . . . It's not THAT bad, but it could definitely use some
    improvements.  Best shows I've seen there - They Might Be Giants ( I
    was so close to the stage I almost got hit with a tuba :-) ) and John
    Wesley Harding/Barenaked Ladies.  
    	They do have stools along the back wall for the faint of heart. 
    I'm a non-smoker, and I've never really had a problem with the smoke. 
    my only real gripe is with the canned music at the beginning . . .
    
    	re : starting times.  As mentioned earlier, they did change the
    tickets to read 'door open' instead of 'starts at'.  It's a hint.
    
    						Jimbo
    
    PS - I just turned 23 a few days ago, so maybe we young'un's are more
    apt to put up with a hostile enviroment to see our fave bands . . .
    

    Well, I know I'm getting old. Through my wife I can get my name at
    the door to any event at the Paradise. I used to use this benny
    quite a bit. Not anymore, I think the timing with kids arriving
    on the scene may have had something to do with it. Kinda hard to
    get in a 2:00 or 3:00 and up with a 3 1/2 and a 10 month old at
    6:30 or 7:00. Or as mentioned earlier make it in to work. When I
    was 22, no problem, lived this way all the time. 
    
    34 and always young in mind but the bods slowing down.
    
    Jim C.
    

    i agreee with most of what was said about the paradise but I did see an
    excellent showe there about 6-7 years ago. It was pat matheny and he
    was getting sounds out of the guitar I hadnt heard out of any
    instument. It was the birth of midi and it was incredible. The sound
    was good to very good but everything else sucked. If one person moved
    you could see the sight lines modify all the way until it 'echoed" back
    to you. I dont know whay but the place still signs the good acts.
    
    	Last time i was at the channel was 2-3 years ago and that was the
    worst sound I had ever heard. i saw the note about a new sound system
    but i cant see that that makes that much of a difference seeing as the
    high ceilings and reverberation-inducing elements about there.
    
    	
    
    			my $0.02 - Fred W.
    

>    You'd skip the band you worship just because you don't like the venue
>    they're playing at?  
    
>    Where's the little :-)'s?
    
    There aren't any funny faces.
    
    I would never have thought any place could be so bad as to keep me from
    seeing the Dregs, but IMO the Paradise changed that.
    

    
    	Hey, db - I'd think that, by definition, the Dregs would
    	be the perfect act for the Paradise!!  We're talkin'
    	"House Band" here...
    
    	;'D
    

RE. .27:

>>    Hey Cheryl, re the Iron Butterfly/Peter-Paul-Mary show, who opened???

Two different shows :-)

Another interesting story about the Iron Butterfly.  My father was a bus driver.
In the late sixties or early seventies he drove a bus for two weeks of IB on
tour.  They did pot the whole time in the bus.  I suppose my father, who didn't
even know what the stuff was, was higher than a kite for the entire two weeks.

When he walked in the door, we kids could smell it immediately but my mother
only knew that he *stank*.  Everything but his uniform was thrown out and his
uniform took several trips to the cleaners before they could get the smell out.
He said they were a "real nice bunch of kids"  :-)

ccb

    Do you suppose it might improve things if this conference were hadr
    copied & sent to the Paradise Mgmt. ? ... Naaah, too easy !
    					-Paul
    

    Well, I guess the Paradise/Channel comparison is moot.  The Globe
    reports today that the Channel is closed.  It will no longer have live
    music and is being re-modeled into a dance club.
    
    				- Paul

    re. 26 BLICKSTEIN (Paradise vs. Berklee)
    
    Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison.  The Paradise is a rock
    club; Berklee is a theater.  It'd be like comparing seeing a movie in a
    theater to seeing one at home on your VCR.  In both cases, you're
    viewing a film, but the experience is so different that they're not
    comparable.
                            - Paul
    

    Well, I survived my trip to the Paradise last night to see Jack Bruce;
    first time I'd been in 3 years.  We arrived about 9:45 and actually
    missed the first 5 minutes of the show(!), got good standing spots
    at the top of the stairs above the pit and great view of the show.
    Yeah, it was still too loud, but I remembered the earplugs this time.
    All in all, not too shabby.

    Well, I finally went to the Paradise for the first time to see
    Lindsey Buckingham Friday night.

    I went with some trepidation after reading this string, but now
    I don't see what all the fuss is about.  It's just a room with
    a band in it.

    Just bring your earplugs.  I was right in front of the speakers
    and it was intense.

    BTW, Buckingham was GREAT!

    re:  
    
    >> Another place that features "comparable acts" is the Berklee
    >> Performance Center.
    
    > Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison.  The Paradise is a rock
    > club; Berklee is a theater.
    
    Why isn't it fair to compare two venu's offering the same product?
    
    If Larry Carlton, the Dregs, Joe Satriani, etc.  can play (and does) at
    either the Paradise or the Berklee, I think it's entirely "fair" to
    compare them.
    
    	db

    re .45  BLICKSTEIN ("My name is Victoria Winters") 
    
    > Why isn't it fair to compare two venu's offering the same product?
    
    I believe I answered that in my original reply (.42):
    
    >Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison.  The Paradise is a rock
    >club; Berklee is a theater.  It'd be like comparing seeing a movie in a
    >theater to seeing one at home on your VCR.  In both cases, you're
    >viewing a film, but the experience is so different that they're not
    >comparable.
    
    				- Paul
    
    PS  "My name is Victoria Winters" was my personal name in Mail for
    	months!  You wouldn't believe the questions I got about it.  :-)

    The point of my original note was that there are much better places
    in Boston available to these artists.   It may be "unfair" that the
    Paradise doesn't compare because it's a club and they are not, but
    the sense I got from your note was that to compare them wasn't somehow
    "valid" to make.
    
    I think it is because the same artists play both places.  It's a valid
    comparsion because it's an ACTUAL choice that is being made.
    
    And I'm so happy to finally see someone who knows what my new personal
    name is about.
    
    	db

    Dave brings up an interesting point:
    
    > I think it is because the same artists play both places.  It's a valid
    > comparsion because it's an ACTUAL choice that is being made.
    
    Does anyone out there know how venues get selected?  Who decides which
    venue hosts which artist?  Example:  say I'm in some nationally known
    band and we decide (or my record label decides) to do a U.S. tour. 
    Now, my popularity is probably at different levels in different parts
    of the country, thus necessitating different-sized venues in different
    cities.  Who picks the venues?  For example, I open my Boston Phoenix
    this week and see that Jesus Jones is playing the Orpheum (a theater
    with a capacity of a little under 3000 people).  Is this group playing
    theaters all across the country?  Clubs in some cities?  Amphitheaters
    in others?
    
    To relate the question to the topic at hand, who decides if an artist
    plays the five-to-six-hundred capacity Paradise vs. the twelve-hundred
    capacity Berklee Performance Center vs. the fifteen-hundred capacity
    Avalon?
    				- Paul 

    db...
    
    So how are the dark shadows of Collinwood?

    > db, So how are the dark shadows of Collinwood?
    
    "A pale grey sky casts it's ominous shadow across the stone walls of
    the great house, as if to signal an impending doom for one who resides
    within..."
    
    Other than that, things are just rosy.  ;-)

    oh we're talking about dark shadows here......it all makes sense now...
    but for awhile there dave, i thought your p-name hd something to do
    with that woman on tv who is selling her own personal line of skin care
    and cosmetics.....you know those paid commercials where all those old 
    soap actresses swear by here products??.....and then i remembered....
    her name is Victoria Jackson.....................;"))............./k

    Yep,
    
    By the way, if any one is interested, I sorta kicked off a Dark
    Shadows conference this morning on DREGS::DARK-SHADOWS.
    
    Not sure if it's gonna fly, but we'll give it a shot.

    Re: .48
    
    Where artists play has to do with the promoters who put on the shows.
    That is, the band doesn't necessarily pick the room, they pick a
    promoter to work with and he picks the room.  Don Law just about owns
    all big-time bookings in Boston at both the club and arena level.   I
    don't know if he still owns the Paradise but he did at one point.  In
    fact, Law's stranglehold on bookings had much to do with the Channel's
    demise.  In the alternative rock, jazz, blues, folk, etc. clubs, the
    clubs usually have their own resident booking people but some contract
    out to free-lance booking agencies.  An example is Joyce Linehan who
    used to book the Rat, Green St. Station, even the Brattle Theatre at
    one point!  My band worked with Joyce for awhile and she put us into
    all three rooms.
    
    Re: .43
    
    I went to that show with Rick and while the show was great I was
    extremely disappointed in the seating (lack of).  It was the first time
    I had been there in at least five years, but I really got tired of
    standing after about thirty minutes.  I didn't even bother trying to get
    to the bar or use the john.  Good thing I seldom go to rock shows these
    days  8^)  8^)
    
    The real reason the Paradise is the way it is?  People put up with it! 
    If people just stopped going they would make whatever changes they
    could to attract people back or else go out of business.
    
    							Brian  

    
    Promoters are the ultimate evil.  From what I understand they have a
    virtual monopoly in booking certain venues.  Bill Graham in San
    Francisco was admired heavily by a number of big name acts, but to 
    some lesser-known bands he was a vampire.
    
    Promoters are the ultimate sleazeballs...
    
    IMHO.
    
    -Ed
    

    Re: .54, Bill Graham
    
    I'd have to say that the idea that promoters are "the ulitmate evil" is
    a bit extreme.  After all, the lowest form of life on earth is
    actually the bus boy  8^)
    
    I've worked at a number of music festivals and have known some
    promoters (not *rock* promoters, BTW) and they were not saints but all
    did it for the music first.  Their interest in profit was simply to
    expand the audience for the music and reimburse themselves for their
    efforts.  
    
    I recall one time when a sudden thunderstorm caused the main stage to be
    shut down.  The sound crew moved as much of the sound system as they
    could into a nearby barn, and the audience piled in to get out of the
    rain.  Meanwhile, the promoter was holed up in his trailer with the
    bands trying to explain that not all of them could play because of the
    time lost in moving the equipment, etc.  Of course, *all* of the bands
    insisted on being paid in full whether they played or not, and some
    threatened to walk regardless.  Not one of the bands was willing to
    concede that the promoter was already taking a bath due to reduced
    attendance, loss of concession money, etc.  They were being
    "professional".  All of this arguing further delayed the show and the
    corwd began to get unruly, and who did they blame?  The promoter, of
    course...  
    
    As far as Bill Graham goes, he often pointed out that he was a
    businessman and in it to make money.  That he loved great music was a
    fringe benefit.  I still remember his press conference on the closing
    of the Fillmores, and he was quite frank that it was the artists' own
    managers that were forcing him to close down.  He was right...look at
    ticket prices today, Van Morrison is getting $35 for his upcoming
    Orpheum show, and arena acts have been in the $30 ballpark for awhile.
    By contrast, I remember paying $3 to see my first arena show (in a day
    where LPs were $3.98).  Big artists can't (or won't) play small rooms on
    multi-artist bills.
    
    Graham did plenty of his share of benefits but that seems easily
    forgotten by bands he wronged.  One band whose career *was* stunted by
    Graham was the UK rock group Family.  Touring the U.S. in 1969, they
    were at the Fillmore East one night when singer Roger Chapman, upset
    about something, heaved a mike stand off the stage and almost crowned
    Graham with it.  Graham refused to book them again and they never
    staged a successful U.S. tour in the remaining five years until they
    broke up.  On the other hand, Graham twisted arms to have Santana play
    (for free) at Woodstock in exchange for assistance to the promoters. 
    This, of course, was the band's big break.  
    
    While I'm sure Bill Graham did his share of screwing *somebody*, in
    general he stands as a decent role model for other promoters to follow.
    
    							Brian

>>    a bit extreme.  After all, the lowest form of life on earth is
>>    actually the bus boy  8^)

Actually you're wrong Brian, it's the bus boy's lawyer...

Bill Graham never claimed to be a saint, but I have to respect him for his
anti-scalping work.  I really believe he was in it for the music.

Tim

    Not to re-open the Paradise debate, I want to give my impressions
    of the remodelling they've done.  If I remember correctly, these
    renovations cost half a million dollars.  The place sure looks a lot
    different.
    
    First of all, the entrance is now halfway down the room as opposed
    to being on the side (there's a new long hall to walk down).  This
    seemed to help when leaving the club -- traffic flowed a lot better
    (but I don't know why).
    
    The multi-level floor is gone -- it's all one level now (actually, it
    dips *down* a little toward the back), but I hear that there's a
    new floor coming in.  There's also a lot less floor space.
    
    The biggest change is the addition of balconies.  There are two levels
    of balconies along the side walls and one loooong balcony (at the same
    height as the sides' upper balconies) along the back wall (which also 
    contains the soundboard).  The back walls of all the balconies have
    booths.  Forget trying to see the stage from a sitting position in the 
    booths if the place is crowded (because people can stand in front of them).
    
    The sound system looks to be the same.  New handicapped and women's
    rest rooms (same men's room).
    
    New earlier show times on the weekends (to make room for dancing
    later).  
    
    The place looks nice, but I'm not sure how utilitarian the changes are.
    I'll report back after I see a packed sold-out show.
    
           			- Paul

    I like the balconies - but for crowded shows, I don't stand a chance of
    getting to them in time.  Too bad that they wiped out the large,
    usually less packed area over on the far side of the stage - even for
    sold out shows you could wander over there for breathing space.  Maybe
    the equivalent is now the upper balcony bar area.
    
    Seemed like we were able to get out at the end of the show a bit
    faster - at the very least, the flow seemed to make more sense.
    
    I laughed when I saw the men's room - they didn't change a single
    thing (well, maybe a new roll of TP).
    
    \chuck

    
    Just one question Paul.........How do you know the ladies room 
    was new??????????????  Heheheheheh  :*)
    

    > Just one question Paul.........How do you know the ladies room
    > was new??????????????  Heheheheheh  :*)
    
    My little secret  :-)

    
    	Any port in a storm, so they say.
    

    Can anybody point me to specific directions to the Paradise?

    Thanks,
    Tom

    
    
    
    	Hi Tom - here's directions sent to me a few years ago...
    
	Directions to Paradise
	======================
	Mass pike inbound  
	Allston/Cambridge exit - left to a separate toll booth area
	Follow Allston signs (to the left)  
	Go around a curve and up a hill
	LEFT on Harvard St at light at Bottom of hill (Allston depot on right)
	Go down Harvard street about a mile
	Look for North Beacon St 
	  (Liquor store on right opposite corner -
	   Riley's Roast Beef on opposite left corner)  
	LEFT on N Beacon (there will be T tracks down the middle)
	About a mile down, N Beacon merges with Comm ave  
	Keep going straight
	The Paradise is about a mile down on the left  
	It's next to T's pub and a Macdonalds is on the block  
	If you see the armory, you've gone too far  
	I usually park on the side streets on the right side of Comm ave

    I am also advised that if you enter Storrow Drive by crossing
    the bridge that you get to by driving through Cambridge (near
    Alewife Brook Parkway) that as soon as you pass the Guest Quarters
    Suite Hotel, or soon thereafter, you should turn off where it
    says "BU".  Come to the light, turn right, and the 'Dise is a
    few blocks down on the right.  Haven't verified this yet, but
    that's the approach I'm going to use.  Once on Comm. Ave, just
    drive up and down till you find it, that's the ticket!

    Tom

    re: .64
    
    Correct
    
    

    
    I heard  Steve Howe is playing there. Anyone have any info?
    
    Thanks
    
    John

    Yup, Steve Howe, tomorrow night...I have to call there, I've never
    been, but doors open at 7pm, but I've heard that the shows don't start
    until later...tix were $13 plus the obligatory ticketb*st*rd charges...

    It's definitely not my favorite place to see an artist play but for
    some reason they always seem to get my favorite artists.  It's hard to
    think of one of my favorites that has NOT played there (ELP, Howe,
    Morse, Satriani, Renaissance, Larry Carlton, Eric Johnson, Adrian
    Belew, sigh...)
    
    The short story is, the bands ALWAYS come on late, often ridiculously
    late (12:30pm once on a Thursday night) usually after a horrible comedian 
    or totally in appropriate opening act, the drinks are expensive and
    bad, the acoustics are awful, parking is not good, the place is usually
    very smokey, there's very little space where the viewing is good
    and the bathrooms would not meet wartime health standards for field
    tents.
    
    Other than that, it's a great place to see a show.   ;-)
    
    It is, in fact so bad, that I've generally sworn off going there even
    for my favorites, but it's a pledge that I have often violated too.
    
    Lest you think me picky, it's the only place I have ever been where
    I was the least bit inclined to criticize it for anything.

    Gee db, I can't wait for my 1st visit there  :)   well, my wife and I
    are big YES fans, so I'm sure we'll enjoy it NEway...
    
    Wes

    He's not going to *sing* is he?
    
    Mark (who has Steve Howe's first solo album :^))

    I know what you mean... I just saw Howe's first solo album on CD on
    sale at Neubery's here in Nashua, NH for like $4.99.
    
    There's a big warning label on the front saying that you should only
    play this CD on CD player's equiped with so-called "vocal eliminators"
    (also known as "Karaoke mode").
    
    	db

    well, Steve sings on his latest cd, The Grand Scheme of Things...and he
    may not be a great singer, but it's not Terrible...I've heard "singers"
    who are worse...and really who cares ??  the point is that he will be
    there, equipped with guitars