Conference mr1pst::music

    Bill,
    
    The U.S. Copyright Office has an information number you can call for
    more info (I'll post it in here if I can dig it out of this mess), but
    basically the form that you use depends on the format that your music
    is in.  If you have a tape of your tune, use Form SR (for "Sound
    Recording").  If you have charts with lyrics, I *think* it's Form TX,
    but I'll have to check that.  Either way, the forms are very simple to
    complete, the instructions (believe it or not) are actually clear, and
    the filing fee is now $20.00
    
    Good Luck!
    
    John

    
    It can also be done in the meantime by sending the tape, lyrics, etc
    to yourself via registered mail. This is legal as evidence in court
    (if it ever came to that).

    ... just don't open it when you get the mail ... 8^)
    
    
    Jerry (who has some of his stuff econo_copyrighted this way ...)

    re .0
    
    Just an idea... why don't you rename this note 'copyrights' or
    something so that the next person to do a dir/title=copyright can find
    it.
    
    Later...
    Steve
    

    
    
    	OK, But how do I rename the title???
    
    	Bill

    
    	You can send a request to the Moderator(s) for the
    	title change .......

    This topic has also been thoroughly beat to death in MUSIC_V3. Look
    there if all you want is info.
    
    Brian

    re. 2
    pete you are living in the dsarsk ages, that isnt the way to do it,
    especially if you are a serious musicalian or sonmgwriter.
    
    
    
    wendy o'
    

    
    
    
    
    Topic 11 in VORTEX::BASLIN::MUSIC_MAKING covers the subject quite
    thoroughly.
    
       "Unless a price is specified, Copyright Office publications
	are FREE of charge. Order by writing to:

		Publications Section, LM-455
		Copyright Office
		Library of Congress
		Washington, D.C. 20559

	Requestors may also order application forms or circulars
	at any time by telephoning the Forms and Circulars Hotline
	(202) 707-9100. Orders will be recorded automatically and
	filled as quickly as possible."
    
    
    	bri

Re last two:

Well, Pete, the way *I* interpreted Wendy's message is simply that protection of
your ownership of your own artistic works is serious stuff, and doubts have been
cast on the "US Mail" system of copyright protection in some of the lengthy
discussions in various notesfiles. Not being a lawyer myself, I can't safely
judge whether the doubts are legitimate or not- but I'm not about to take a
chance in order to save the modest fee for "real" copyright protection.

All I took Wendy's reply to mean is that any "serious" musician would be willing
to invest a few bucks to guarantee protection of music worth protecting. A
"real" copyright also allows you to demonstrate to someone *outside* of court
that you are the legal copyright owner, perhaps forestalling the need for
legal action. If you open your envelope for this purpose in the "US Mail"
copyright system, you just blew your protection- oh 'eck.

(BTW- I may be off-base on *Wendy's* meaning, but this reply reflects my own
views, anyway.)

Bob

    I finally found the number to call a "Copyright Specialist" at the
    Library of Congress.  It is (202) 479-0700.  I recently registered some
    music and was unsure of the forms, fees, etc.  I called the folks at
    this number and found them to be *very* helpful.
    
    Also, after reading the ongoing debate in here over "modest fees,"
    etc., I should note that if you complete form SR and send it in with a
    tape of your music (be it one song or 20) and the $20 registration fee, 
    there doesn't seem to be a need for separate, individual registration of 
    each *song* on the tape.
    
    As for the U.S. Mail system (i.e. "Poor Man's Copyright"), an attorney
    friend of mine described it as being better than nothing, but not by
    much.  I wouldn't count on it affording adequate protection in the long
    run.  Wendy's right - spend the twenty bucks.

    
    You have to register songs that are written by different authors
    seperately. For example, if me and my bassist write 2 songs, we
    have to register them seperately from two songs that the
    guitarist and singer wrote.
    
    /prc

Re last:

I nearly went that route myself (i.e., copyrighting an entire "opus" consisting
of multiple songs), but I'm having some second thoughts. Note that this approach
doesn't allow the individual pieces to be treated separately, as in transfer
of ownership if you want to "sell" just one. It *is* cheaper, obviously, but
it's worth some thought on what you intend to *do* with your work before you
commit to the "umbrealla" approach.

Note also that there *is* a distinction between copyrighting one *performance*
of a song (such as a tape, CD, record) and the song itself (as in sheet music
or other transcription). I'm not the right person to expound on the precise
differences, but personally, I *think* copyright of the score offers broader
protection. (That said, having the first registered copyright of a performance
of a song might imply proof that you "own" the authorship of the song...dunno.)

Bob

    A question, does anyone know how to find out if a band name has already
    been taken or has a copyright. Is there some place you can call to do a 
    search of some kind. My band has a new name but everyone seems to think
    its already been used.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike___

    
    Band names are Registered.

    re.16
    
    Hi Pete,
    
            Where are they registered, how are they registered and how can
    you do a search???
    
    Lots of questions

    The topic of band name registration is well-covered in MUSIC V3, but
    I'll write a little here too.
    
    First of all, the way to do it is to get yourself a lawyer. I know that
    all kinds of people are going to try and tell you how to do it
    cheap/easy (they've popped up every single time its been discussed in
    here). However, they have no idea what they're talking about. That's
    the beginning and end of the story.
    
    Now here's the scoop (and I promise you this is accurate):
    
    Band names and company names in general fall under what is known as a
    "Service Mark". A "trademark" is a tradename of a product of a company,
    which owns a service mark.
    
    Service marks are registered on a per-state basis, and nationally.
    International service marks can also be obtained, but the cost is
    prohibitive and *if* you ever need one, the record company will make
    sure you get it.
    
    In Massachusetts, the service marks are registered by the Secretary of
    State's office. Nationally, service marks are administered through the
    Library of Congress.
    
    Most libraries have a copy of the service mark registries for each
    state (as well as the federal registry), but they are always out of
    date by a few years (this is why you should ignore anyone who tells you
    to go to a library and look it up - you can, however, save yourself
    expensive searches by verifying that the name you want to use doesn't
    exist before you seek a lawyer's advice).
    
    Qualified lawyers (patent, trademark and corporate attorneys) use an
    on-line data base service which costs several thousand dollars per
    year. Thus, it is not feasible for you to use the data base. The lawyer
    will do a search for (usually) around $500, and register the name for
    you. The reason you *must* use a lawyer is that he/she is the only one
    qualified to determine if the name you want to use overlaps with
    someone else's tradename (you're not just competing for names with
    other bands, for instance).
    
    If you choose to not get a lawyer, then if some other band owns the
    trademark, they have the right to sue you for a percentage of any money
    you make using "their" name. If two or more bands are using an
    unregistered trademark, then if it ever goes to court, the first
    documented user of the name wins. If you use a name without registering
    it, someone else can register it later and it is likely you will have
    to cease using the name (which can be a real bother if you've
    established a reputation). You can sue the new registers of the name
    under a fair-use clause, but the time-frame for blocking the request is
    very short and means that you have to keep checking the name data base
    (so it's cheaper in the long run to register the name).
    
    In some cases, you may be able to register the name in a particular
    state, but not federally (someone else in another state has already
    gotten the federal service mark). In this case, you can use the name
    for business conducted entirely within the borders of your state and
    *only* if the registered owner of the federal service mark does not
    operate within your state.
    
    This information is taken directly from documents I still happen to
    have in my files at work that were given to me by a lawyer. Listen to
    other advice at your financial peril.
    
    Brian

    thanks Brian

	Some what related to the earlier discussion, supposedly the 60's band 
	Nirvana is suing for their name being used....

	- Jim

    Well I did some research, made some calls to Boston and Washington, and 
    spent some time in the library. Heres what I found out and thouht I'd
    pass it on for anyone who needs it in the future.
    
        You can register your trademark on to levels, state and federal. In
    order to register on the state level, you must obtain a D.B.A (Doing-
    Business-As Certificate, available at your local town hall. The fee is
    $10 and real easy to fill out. The form must be notarized. After you
    receive the D.B.A. certificate, head down to the Secretary of States
    office at one Ashburton Place, Boston, 18th floor, and obtain copies of
    the trademark registration form. There is a central file drawer open to
    the public. You may look up your proposed name to see if been taken. If
    not, fill out the form, include the $50 filing fee and copies (not
    larger that 3"X3") of your logo. This form must be filled out in
    tripilicate. In about six weeks you will receive your trademark
    registration.
    
                        So thats    $10 for DBA form
                                   $150 for State trademark
    
          Once you receive the trademark you can take it and apply for a
    federal trademark. To obtain a form:
                     
                        write to:  Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks
                                   U.S Patent and Trademarks office
                                   Department of Commerce Building
                                   Washington, D.C. 20231.
    
                        or call :  (703) 557 INFO
    
         The filing fee is $150. You can send in the form and the money and
    in six weeks you will either receive your trademark or they will send
    back you form and money saying the trademark has been taken. If you can
    they also have a central public file in Washington that the names can
    be looked up ahead of time but this will be going there or finding
    someone in Washington to do it for you. There is no need to obtain a
    attorney in order to file a trademark. However if you do have problems
    after you receive the trademark ( like some other band takeing your
    trademaked name) then you should consult an attorney.
    
    
    Hope this helps anyone in the future.
    
    Mike___

    re.21
    
        That $50 for the state trademark, I had a typo.
    
    
                          DBA  $10
              State trademark  $50
            Federal Trademark  $150
                              ------
                               $210 and its a done deal

    Yeah but,
    
    If you pay your filing fee, you lose if the name is already taken. The
    only way to prove the name is not taken beforehand is to have a service
    mark search done (it is *not* a Trademark - Service marks apply only to
    the name and not any graphic represenation (logos etc) of the name).
    
    So, again, if you want to piss the $210 down the potty, then go ahead
    and do this all yourself. Or, as I suggested, contact an attorney who
    will charge you more but will at least insure that the name you use is
    not taken prior to filing (i.e. you'll only need to pay the $210 once).
    
    The name data base is maintained on-line by LOC. The contents of the
    data base are only printed and published on a yearly basis. A lot
    happens in a year. Knowing someone in Washington won't help you unless
    they have access to the data base.
    
    Brian