Conference mr1pst::music

    
    ...	Micheal Jackson
    
    Never have...Oh well.
    
    B.A.
    

    Grateful Dead
    
    ... I know... I know... I should go see them live.
    
    But nothing I've heard on record gives me even the slightest
    inclination to do that.
    
    I once did see "Bobby and the Midnites" live (they "closed" for Steve
    Morse once) and got rapidly bored and left after about 3-4 songs.
    
    Then again, almost anyone would seem boring after Steve Morse.

    I agree with .2.  I just don't get 'em.
    
    Also, Madonna.  I don't think she is pretty at all, or that she can
    sing (or act) in the least.  I don't get it.  And I don't want it.
    
    One more...Guns'n'Roses.  Nothing new...for one of the newer Rock
    groups, give me The Black Crowes anyday.
    
    I don't get 'em all.
    
    K.C.

    I've never understood the appeal of Aerosmith. 
    
    Over-used rock riffs and harsh singing...
    

    Michael Jackson
    
    Bruce Springsteen
    
    Fleetwood Mac - After Peter Green left
    
    Any Metal/headbanger groups
    
    

    Michael Bolton, who, IMHO, sings like he's trying to pass a loaf of
    bread. I'll second the comments on Michael Jackson, at least the one of
    the 80's. Now, the Jackson 5, well, that's different.....

    
    Michael Jackson
    Springsteen
    Paula Abdul
    Madonna
    Mellencamp
    Barbra Streisand
    Phil Collins
    Any 80-90's disco bimbo like Jodi Watley
    Any Metalhead band
    Any British homosexual fashion Nazi synth-pop band
    
    -Ed
    

    Folk Music.  U.S. indigenous or ethnic.
    
    karl

     Kiss- still at it after all these years-who cares ?
     REM - yes , they are a good band, but thats it.
     Mariah Carey- Always includes singing that note that only dogs can
    here
     Heavy Metal- After Spinal Tap, how can anyone take it so seriously ?
     Farrenhiet- So much talent, no album, no buzz on the street about
     them, no nothing.
     Ritchie Blackmore- They tell me he's great - I just don't get it.
    
    
                 JMHO    8*)

    I agree with the Aerosmith sentiment except for their very 1st album.
    
    Mariah Carey.
    
    All RAP, and especially the trendiness of it.  What's interesting is
    seeing the (few) kids that don't care to follow trends listening to
    anything but RAP...
    
    MTV.
    

    
    Like dudez, Heavy Metal totally roolz, man. 8-)

    Here's my partial list:
    
    Springsteen -   never "got it" from day one. Closest to Bob Dylan in
    		    the "singers who sound like they're being given the
    		    Heimlich Manouver" sweepstakes.
    
    Guns n' Roses - good band with some decent songs actually, but Axl's
    		    voice is pure fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears
    
    Singers who "oversing" - Whitney, Mariah, etc. Also, for all the vocal
    		    talent they may have, they seem clueless when it comes
    		    to writing and/or picking songs. I can't think of a
    		    single Whitney song that manages to transcend garbage.
                    Some people include Michael Bolton in this category,
    		    but I give him good marks solely on the basis of his
    		    version of "Georgia".
    
    Michael Jackson-If for no other reason than he's too popular and I
    		    prefer to "go against the grain". The fact that he's
    		    had a zillion plastic surgeries and especially the
    		    fact that he had his skin lightened really turns me
    		    off as well. I think that mentally and emotionally,
    		    Michael is full tilt fruitcake.
    
    Grateful Dead-  Someone once said to me that they were surprised how
    		    many "really intelligent people" don't like the Dead
    		    (that person was, and may still be, a reader of this
    		    file). The person made this statement with genuine
    		    surprise as surely a "really intelligent person" must
    		    have what it takes to appreciate such a band. OK, so
    		    maybe I'm a dummy, but gadzooks, they sound like a
    		    bad garage band on a bad day to me.
    
    REM, U2, etc.   Yeah, I lump them in one category - politically correct
    		    boredom. I have several albums by both these groups and
    		    played them once or twice and never again. I suppose it's
    		    time to exhibit a little learning here and not buy
    		    anymore. Someday, Bloody Someday.
    
    Bob Segar	    A sure fire "lunge for the channel button on the radio"
    		    if ever I heard one...
    
    Pete Segar	    A granola overdose from the first note, plus he shares
    		    a last name (though maybe not the spelling - I dunno)
    		    with one of the most boring "artists" I can think of
    
    Jackson Browne- Don't like his music *or* his politics (which some say is
    		    the same as his music), but I wouldn't care about his
    		    politics if he was any good as a musician. Know what I
    		    mean?
    
    There's more, but you get the idea.
    
    Brian

    
    <<Guns n' Roses>> RE-1 hear hear,their cover(what's left to do huh?)
                      Live n' let die....yyyyyyyuuuuuuuchh!!
                      Talking about a fingernails on chalkboard sqeek!??
                      Even James Bond refuses the job to kill that man.
                                                                   
    Jan.

    
    Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston 
    
     These two folk sound virtually the same to me.  Mariah seems bent on
    proving that she can sing difficult notes, unfortunately, some notes
    are better off left unsung.  Neither of these two seem to know when 
    enough is enough and consistently go overboard with the vocal jamming.
    
    Jmo, Larry

    This note is great.  By the time we hit reply 10,000 we should have
    mentioned every musician known to mankind in here.
    
    							Brian

     Sting- Since he's left the Police, he's been out to prove that
     he's a serious musician. Blah.....to depressing and down. Give us
     great pop tunes. Go with what you know. Roxanne.......

    
    How could I resist... here's my additions:
    
    
    
    THE DOORS	I've said it all before, but I'll never understand
    		how someone as pathetic a person and poor a writer
    		as Jim Morrison could become both a "hero" and 
    		an "American Poet".
    
    
    
    GRATEFUL	I can't find anything to hate about these guys... but 
    DEAD	there isn't anything to like, either. They just sound
    		so damn boring to me. Not a drop of energy in this band.
    
    
    THE DREGS	Sorry, db, Steve Morse IS a great guitarist, but the
    		Dregs albums rate as the worst instrumental records I've 
    		ever heard. The playing might be good, but I could never
    		make it past the dreadfulness of the songs. I've always
    		liked Morse's "Introduction" album, though.
    
    
    THE CURE	And other depressing, mope-around bands & artists. I'm
    		sorry, but Robert Smith just seems so pathetic.
    
    MORRISSEY	And while we're on the subject of pathetic... I mean,
    		Morrisey's just the worst whiner in the history of
    		rock & roll.
    
    
    ERIC 	He is a good guitarist, but his first album "Tones"
    JOHNSON	or whatever it was called was so lame from both a
    		songwriting and guitar playing point that I never
    		understood why people got so "turned on" to him.
    
    
    
    
    	There's plenty more, I'm sure, but who wants to dwell...
    
    
    
    	On the other side of the "I Don't Get It" coin, I'll never
    understand why Todd Rundgren isn't one of the biggest all-time
    hit-makers ever. He's written more original, catchy melodies
    than McCartney, Squeeze, Joe Jackson and Elvis Costello put
    together (all artists who I like, by the way), and yet no
    one knows who the hell he is. His "Nearly Human" disc from a
    while back has enough material for the Michael Bolton crowd,
    with much better lyrics... why won't the record companies
    and radio stations play & promote his stuff?
    
    	That I just don't get.
    
    
    
    
    
    Brad Page
    
    

re:< Note 96.12 by CLIPR::MARKEY "Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging" >

I couldn't refuse this nit..
    
>    Bob Segar	    A sure fire "lunge for the channel button on the radio"
>    		    if ever I heard one...
>    
>    Pete Segar	    A granola overdose from the first note, plus he shares
>    		    a last name (though maybe not the spelling - I dunno)
>    		    with one of the most boring "artists" I can think of

I'm not arguing your opinion (although I like Bob Seger), but not only do Pete
and Bob *not* share the same name, you've got them both wrong!

Bob Seger
Pete Seeger (this may be wrong, but I know it ain't Seger).

Personally , I don't rag on folk singers from Pete's days.  It was before my
time, and back then, there was a good market for non-conformist, anti-war,
pro-social lyrics.

My additions to this list:

Any vocally-processed high-pitched crooner (Madonna, Mariah, Paula, etc.). 

Thrash bands whose singers shout the lyrics without any pitch information. 
Often accompanied by a fast, repetitive, 4/4 beat by the drummer.

adam

    Neil Young - An aggravating voice, a high-and-holy attitude, and
    		 boring songs
    
    Sinnead O'Connor - OK, I see her musically as striving for originality
    		but in all other aspects she comes across as a hateful
    		person rather than as someone with a deep-rooted
    		concern for mankind.
    
    		The difference between her and other self-appointed
    		savoirs of humanity is that a) other people paint positive
    		pictures of the "true" human spirit, and Sinnead strikes
    		me as having a very low opinion of humanity. 
    
    		Also, she simply is so one-tracked: absolutely EVERYTHING
    		this woman has to say seems to HAVE to a "statement" of
    	 	one kind or another.  Even the most innocuous of questions
    		gets an answer with some sort of social agenda behind it.
    
    		It just turns me off completely.

    
    Pixies.  I mean real derivative stuff.  What's all the hubbub about?
    
    - Sean

    RE .18
    
    Ok you got me, Segar, Seger, Seeger, Cigar, whatever... :-)
    
    I added Pete Seeger, not because I have anything against him
    personally, but to make a statement comparing him to that other guy
    with the similar name (OK? :-) ) and to also express my general
    disinterest in the fiesty-sixties-granola movement. That stuff is dead,
    but unfortunately, it seems to be making a comeback in other artists
    who feel the need to acoustically express their socialist angst. Pete
    Seeger, all told, is actually a fine musician (in fact, one of my all=time
    guitar favorites (when he's not singing) - Leo Kottke - lists Pete Seeger
    as one of his top influences). Maybe I should have picked another
    example.
    
    I actually forgot the Doors on my original list, but that's definitely
    another band I can't relate to.
    
    For me the single most annoying "artist" I can think of, who I totally
    forgot to mention in my first note, is Eddie Brickell and her recycled
    Bohemians. Gaaaaack! Definitely *not* on my Christmas list.
    
    Brian

    
    >     On the other side of the "I Don't Get It" coin, I'll never<
    >understand why Todd Rundgren isn't one of the greatest all time<
    
    Ditto Brad,you sound just like me!!
    
    REM ,tried but just don't get.
    Nope.

    
    Michael Jackson, Phil Collins, Talking Heads, Bruce Springsteen, Bon
    Jovi, REM, all the rest of those pop alternative bands, most rap,
    etc...

    re: to whoever said they didn't get Barbra Streisand....who would you
    consider to rank high on the female vocalist list?...i'm curious.../k 

    
    Who do I like better than Barbra..
    
    1) Bette Midler
    2) Frederica Von Stade
    3) Cindy Lauper
    4) Kate Bush
    5) Laurie Anderson
    6) Rickie Lee Jones
    
    Want more?
    
    -Ed
    

re            <<< Note 96.25 by FORTSC::CHABAN "Born to Synthesize" >>>

>    2) Frederica Von Stade

Who?

Curious ....

- Dave

    Re: .26
    
    No surprise you never heard of Ms. Von Stade.  She is an opera singer.
    
    						Brian

    Ditto on the Doors.
    
    I also don't get Van Morrison.  In fact Van and Jim are so equally
    boring that I often confuse them.
    
    I also don't get rap and most modern really HEAVY metal. 
    
    I definitely don't "get" Big Daddy Cane, nor do I really want to.
    
    I certainly do not get what distinguishes M.C. Hammer from other
    rappers - he certainly seems to be raps only true Mega-star.
    
    The only rapper I've ever liked was Tone Loc because he had a style
    and deliverly that I found unique and cool.  I could pick out Tone
    Loc from a crowd of Rappers - I wouldn't have a chance of picking
    out Hammer.
    
    I mostly don't get Prince.  I like some of his stuff, but unlike other
    pop-stars he seems to get accolades like "musical genius" and I don't
    hear that.  I would say the same thing (like some stuff, but no
    "genius") if they said that about.. say.. Madonna.

    re: 25...no i don't want *more*...i was curious as to where your tastes
    ran....now i know......../k

The Rolling Stones.  A few good songs, an OK band, but
vastly overrated and overplayed.  A case of right time,
right place, I imagine.

    I'd heard she had a "cult" following...
    I'd heard she was not the most "accessible" artiste...
    I've kept an open mind now for over a year,
    but I still DON'T GET
    
    .....Kate Bush?
    
    \Gary

    
    re: .DB & Neil Young - you mean, write the same song over & over, sung
    		and played badly, yet still make lot's of money and become
    		a "certified" legend of rock?   What a great gig! I think 
    		the "joke" is on anyone who things making great music in
    		rock will make 'em a star!
    
    	ah high & holy - high yes (still damaged from Buffalo Springfield
    days), but holy?  He still sounds like the kid who was pummled daily
    in ye 'ole plaground.
    
    
    	ok, i got that one, but the one's i don't are;
    
    
    	Rap - i try, honest!
    
    	Most Metal - gee, i LIKE power chords, but there seems to be
    something very insincere about what i hear.
    
    	Doors - Jim did a good fool on acid routine, but other than that...
    
    	Stones - i hated them until i grew up and realized it was all a
    joke. Just like with Neil, i "get" the humor.
    
    	Bruce - other than the bootleg of him playing 'BCN with Maxanne
    long time ago, i just don't like.
    
    	Greatful Dead - once again, i try.  But i'll never forgive & forget the
    completely awful show i saw in '71 at the music hall, where we got
    all prepared and ready, and got real, real, real board.  I remember
    playin' in much better jams, thank you.
    
    
    	Everything else - it's fun to be young and stupid sometimes.
    Certainly beats growing old ;-)
    
    	bob

    Rap music. nuff said.

    NAS
    ACE
    ORB  
    
    Oh, sorry - wrong conference
    
    karl

    Oh yeah, big-time Ditto on Kate Bush.
    
    Anybody remember her obseesed fan Doug Alan from usenet?
    
    According to Doug she invented "using the studio as an instrument"
    and her importance to music could be compared with that of Bach.
    
    God, I spent so much time listening to "The Dreaming" - trying SOOO
    hard to see what others saw in it.
    
    Y'know something? As many times as I ended up listening to it.  I can't
    remember a single thing (note, lick, song title, etc...) from it!
    
    There's quite a few people I respect that like her, but...  I just
    do NOT get it.

    
    Aaron Neville ... or something like that, he sang a duet with Linda
    Ronstadt and now has a version of Everybody Plays the Fool.  I just
    can't get into that wierd sound of his voice.
    
    Grateful Dead - Definitely BIG time boring.
    
    REM - I've tried to discover why everybody seems to love these guys,
          but I just can't grasp it.  As someone else had mentioned -
          politically correct, but their music is boring, repetitive,
    	  and about as exciting as a loaf of bread.  The vocals tend to
    	  sound incredibly banal.
    
    Well, these are just my opinions, and I don't mean to offend anyone
    who really likes these folks.  I'm certain that lots of you wouldn't
    like some of the music I like either.  This is just a great topic
    within which to vent these pentup feelings :^).
    
    Larry
    	

    
    >REM - I've tried to discover why everybody seems to love these
    >but I just can't grasp it.  As someone else had mentioned -
    >politically correct, but their music is boring, repetitive,
    >and about as exciting as a loaf of bread.  The vocals tend to
    >sound incredibly banal.
    
    Whaddya mean "BORING" and "REPETITIVE"!!  Their wonderful, lyrical
    masterpiece "Shiny, Happy People" must at least 20 DIFFERENT WORDS
    (count 'em..... 20!) in it!  :-)
    
    ...... gee, I wonder how long it took 'em to write that one!
    
    >Grateful Dead - Definitely BIG time boring.
    
    You're right...... I don't get it......
    
    
    brian
    

The Partridge Family - I just don't get it!

Beethoven, too.

    The Cowsills, The Monkees, Hermits Hermits and Mrs. Brown (didn't get
    it!)

	I originated this topic in the last version of MUSIC, just
	would like to point out (since some people are slamming the
	artists they actively dislike), that my original point was
	to mention artists who provoke strong emotions (positive and
	negative) in most fans, but who you're simply indifferent
	to. My first choice was Led Zeppelin - a lot of people almost
	worship them, quite a few others see them as over-indulgent
	ripoff artists (old blues artist being the victims), and
	I'm just plain not interested.

	My choice this year - Nirvana. They're a competent enough
	band, but I still can't figure out why they've been
	anointed this year's "we're cooler than you because we
	like them" band. I thought maybe there was some deeper
	meaning in the lyrics that I was missing - until I saw
	them posted on Usenet. Yawn...

	Mike

    RE:  Nirvana
    
    I'm not really sure if I understand the Nirvana thing also.  They're
    a college radio band with a real pop accessibility.  I guess that
    "indie" sound is "in" right now.
    
    What really blows *me* away about them is their live shows.  I don't
    think their albums capture anywhere near their power.
    
    -Scott

    1) Rap - finally something worse than country western
    
    2) Madonna, Paula Abdul, and most of what I think of as "girl"
       singers - their sound makes me want to puke
    
    3) Michael Jackson - just the way he *looks* turns my stomach
                         (he began life as a fairly decent looking
                          guy but is now repulsive)
    
    4)Vanilla Ice -  the most repulsive performer in rock/pop history
    
    
    5) Reggae - so boring and repetitive it drives me nuts
    
    
    6) "Dance Music" in general - yuk
    
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Re .-1
    
    You mean Vanilla DIce Clay
    
    -Ed
    

    I know that I get the "rap" about being hypercritical when it comes to
    music. I'm sure most people associate me more with my stated dislikes
    than with the music I do like (which is a pretty large set, actually).
    In truth, there are very few artists that I totally don't like and, in
    turn, very few artists who I totally like.
    
    In terms of genres, country music is perhaps the only music that I
    don't like and even then there's some artists I do like who are on
    the fringe of "country" (mostly instrumental artists like Leo Kottke
    and some of Steve Morse's less obviously hillbilly offerings).
    
    Oddly enough, I don't count out dance music, rap or any "generic"
    category of music. Even heavy metal. In fact, I can think of at least
    one artist in each genre that I really like. My first interests in rock
    stemmed from the heavy metal bands of "my generation" which included
    Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rainbow etc. 
    
    One thing that I've found appealing the past couple years is the
    mixture of funk, heavy metal, punk and new wave into "alternative"
    music. I like Nirvana, for instance, not because they are "cool" to
    like, but because I like the way the landscape shifts in their music. I
    like a lot of the "indie" music scene. I also seem to like a lot of
    what is coming out of Seattle, including bands like Queensryche,
    Soundgarden (sp?) and Nirvana. I like the punk/funk synthesis in such
    bands as the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I've developed a taste for some
    rap music because I've done some sampler experimentation along the
    lines of what they do and it is definitely *not* easy. They just make
    it *look* easy, which in ltself appeals to me (the way watching Michael
    Jordan play basketball appeals to me).
    
    I've also been a long time fan of classical music (including opera - I
    really *love* seeing live operas in particular), jazz, progressive
    rock, etc.
    
    One band that genuinely falls into the category of "I don't get it"
    rather than "I don't like it" is the Who. I can't really put a finger
    on why their music never clicked with me. Keith Moon and Peter
    Townshend have always been interesting in their own way, Entwhistle is
    a fantastic bassist, Roger Daltry is a *very* servicable rock singer
    (especially when compared to some other singers) and the songwriting is
    pretty good. Still, it just doesn't register with me. Other than the
    album Quadraphenia, I get bored pretty quick when listening to the Who.
    I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's my
    problem...
    
    Brian

Oh what the hell...

	Country & Western:  Ick.

	Folk Music:  Ick.

	Bruce Cockburn:  If *I* had a rocket launcher...

	Anything with bagpipes is definitely suspect.

	Tin Machine:  So you've got David Bowie, so what?

	No offense to Peter and Mystic Powers, but:  NO METAL!

	I like the energy and the production work that goes into
	a lot of the rap stuff, and I have to give rappers credit
	for turning a primarily alternative style into something
	that's accessible to everyone, but it's definitely a one
	trick pony.  Heard one, you heard 'em all.  And let's PAY
	PEOPLE FOR THOSE SAMPLES!


Happy Holidays,
/Chris
Generic Drummer in a Brand X Band

    
    
    I don't get a lot of things....
    
    I don't get C&W music.  I don't understand how someone can basically
    parody themselves and people still love them - while the "artist" 
    laughs all the way to the bank.
    
    I don't get Phil Collins.  There is nothing special about the mans
    voice.  There is nothing special about the songs.  Or maybe it's his
    voice that kills it for me.....or the music....no, the voice...or...
    
    NO ONE knows who Todd Rundgren is.  This is a big shame.
    
    I don't get the use of click tracks in club bands.  Where's the human
    factor, audience sensing/reaction, emotion?  When I can tell there's
    a click track I don't feel like dancing.  A little tempo increase and
    I'm having a good time dancing, otherwise, I'm just there, going
    through the motions.  I might as well be watching TV at home - maybe
    seeing other people dance.  I don't even own a TV.
    
    I don't get dance music.
    
    I don't get Bryan Adams, John Cougar Dweebcamp, Bob Seger, The Grateful
    Dead.  I have to agree with the earlier comment on the Dead - ZERO
    energy.  
    
    I can't believe that there are still intelligent people who don't know
    who Todd Rundgren is....;-)
    
    
    guy
    

    re: Grateful Dead; boring; no energy
    
    Someone pretty much summed up my feelings earlier about the Dead. 
    Never really cared for them, but don't hate 'em.  I started going to
    concerts back when the Dead had these marathon concerts.  Never went,
    but friends who did would brag about how they wouldn't get out of the
    Boston Garden until 2 or 3 in the morning.  This I couldn't understand. 
    #1, how the Dead (or anyone) could play their songs for 6 hours and not 
    bore their audience and, #2, why no one fell asleep... :-)
    
    John.
    

.45> Favorite country artists: Leo Kottke and (parts of) Steve Morse.

I'll hold this thought forever.

1.  MC Hammer, 
    
    A complete zero has a few hits and he's a megastar ?? 
    
    I think I'll become a rap artist.
    
2.  The Doors,
    
    Jim Morrison forms group , has a few good songs , becomes an
    alcoholic , does a few outragous things on stage , goes to
    Paris then dies.
              Nothing clever about that, or am I missing some point ?
    
3.  Michael Jackson,
    
    Enough Said !
    
4.  Cher,
    
    Talentless, False, Pretentious etc etc etc etc.
    
5.  U2,
    
    Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto.
    
    
    
    
    Haven't got enough time to type in the other 100's   :*)

    Actually Steve Morse does play some stuff that's clearly country,
    although HIGHLY infused with a sort of energy that I just don't
    happen to associate with country:
    
    Examples: (Song - album)
    
    	Pride of the Farm - Dregs of the Earth
    	Gina Lollabreakdown - What If
    	The Bash - Night of the Living Dregs
    
    The Bash is actually just a high speed version of a classic country
    tune, The Wabash Cannonball.
    
    Steve's even appeared on "Nashville Now" 
    
    Although, the truth is, that you can find VERY CLEAR examples from an
    extraordinary wide range of music on any Morse album: Country, Celtic,
    Rock, Heavy Metal, Classical, Funk, Jazz.
    
    It's really not that he's just "influenced" by these styles - he
    regularly performs in them.

    Has Elvis Costello been mentioned yet?  If not, I nominate him.  I just
    don't get what makes him so great in so many's eyes.  That "hit" song
    "Valerie"(?) of a few years back is just plain aweful, IMHO.  No
    melodic quality whatsoever, and the words, well, let's just say that I
    haven't gotten past the music and vocals (and don't plan to either!)...
    
    John.
    

    Veronica, it was.  Not one of Elvis' great tunes... I didn't get why it
    was a big single.  Co-written with Paul McCartney.
    
    By the way, I definitely "get" EC.

    I've never particularly cared for The Grateful Dead...as a matter of fact, 
    I used to say in college..."If they ever really *do* die, I'll be grateful 
    *about* the Dead"...
    
    Madonna? I can only say that she has been and always will be a Pigwoman
    to me...she and her friend Sandra Bernnmummblemummble are just a couple of
    untalented and overrated bimbos, who couldn't perform their way out of a 
    paper bag...although the fact that the two of them *know* this fact feeds 
    their appeal to that segment of the populace who idolize them. Garbage.
    
    Guns 'N Roses - This group continues to flabbergast me. They get tremendous
    reviews by the critics and their fans just love them to death.......
    
    
    
    ........WHY?????????.....I have listened to their music, I have seen their 
    videos, I've even stayed with them through most of a concert video a friend
    of mine has...I just don't find *anything* to admire about this group. 
    
    Maybe I've answered my own question. Perhaps for the very reason mentioned,
    that is why they're popular. 
    
    And, last but not least, there's Tom Petty, Bob Dylan, Mark Knopfler, Neil 
    Young, and anybody who sounds as if they've been vocally trained by some 
    guy with a cheap kazoo....Great artists, composers and poets, all of them..
    but I've never understood artists trying to emulate them vocally...UGH!!!
    

    
	Although I don't like most of the bands either that have been
	mentioned here I certainly "get it".

	Simply stated many people like crap.  I'm just using the word crap to 
	really mean easy listening, in terms of "yea, it sounds like a lot of 
	other stuff I enjoy, nothing different" and top 40 sounding stuff that 
	I consider hardly creative or different than the countless other bands 
	and performers who make a fine living at it.

	As a defense for these bands and to the people who like them there's
	nothing wrong with it, I'm not really implying a lack of talent 
	(in all cases) but maybe the talent could be put to a more creative 
	use but them most likely throngs of people wouldn't like them.  I'm
	not from the school that just because a few people like a band. i.e. 
	an underground cult band then they must be good and likewise a band 
	with huge popularity must be bad.  

	In both camps there are exceptions, in the independent side maybe
	some bands would surely have a larger following if not for the
	limitations of their label, poor distribution, marketing, limited
	radio play, simply limited product, most aren't going to press an 
	initial 100,000+ records, far smaller quantities.  Some people will
	say, "why on earth aren't they more popular/well known?" Is it really 
	any wonder?

	As for the arena attractions maybe good distribution, marketing,
	advertising, radio and in-store play, both of which helps sell 
	records just by the statistics involved, if more people hear it more
	are likely to like it even if it's truly mediocre to some people.

	Follow up sales to a "good" record certainly don't hurt, how many 
	people buy an album just because it's one of their favorite artists 
	or because they had some fine material out before so they'll buy it
	even with out listening or just after hearing a standout single to 
	only find the rest of the release crap.  If you're selling millions 
	of records even if 10% of the buyers end up thinking it is crap 
	you still have sold a lot of units.

	The Michael Jackson new one so far isn't selling that good but still 
	it will probably sell at least 2 million units.  Even to true fans
	it may not be as good but this probably has far less odds of only 
	selling say 40,000 units.

	As for the Pixies being mentioned, I don't think have received nearly
	enough "hoopla".  While they do have a very strong fan base they are 
	hardly overwhelmed by media and airplay to nearly the attention I think 
	they deserve never mind getting too much.  

	As for Nirvana, surely their choice of signing with DGC (David Geffen 
	Company) has been good for both of them.  I don't blame all the people 
	who suddenly like them the limited distribution of Sub Pop and radio 
	play primary consisting of college/non-commerical radio I wouldn't 
	have expected them to be the so-called "buzz" during the "Bleach" and 
	pre-MTV days.  Their first single was only 5,000 (or was it 1,000?) 
	copies pressed.  Even the new release originally had a limited pressing
	but has already far surpassed initial expected sales.

	I do get sick of some of the descriptions I hear related to them, 
	"they're a bridge for the people who would like to enjoy Metallica 
	but don't because of their lack of melody and R.E.M."  I would think 
	that only accounts for a very small group of people if any.  And to 
	those who are looking for some deep meaning in all their lyrics  
	you best look elsewhere.  Not to confuse it with the whole Punk thing
	but I think it does have a lot of the same traits but with obviously
	far greater passion and influence from the music they grew up with.

	I like how the band are trying to spread the word that many other good 
	bands exist beside the stuff that's aired all over commercial stations.
	Shonen Knife, the Melvins, Captain America (ex-Vaseline members), all 
	of which who have/will provide support during the bands tour, Beat 
	Happening, Sister Double Happiness to name a few bands who they have 
	mentioned a like for.

	Their release "Nevermind" is far more accessible in terms of radio play 
	let alone in terms of sound over "Bleach" not to mention I'm sure they
	spent over $600.00 recording this time although they did record on 
	all analog equipment in a some what dated studio and only used new
	digital equipment in mixing.  {A good article on this in a recent VOX}.
	
	I knew of only a few stations that played "Bleach" material, WMBR 
	(88.1 / MIT), WZBC (90.3 / Boston College) when it first came out 
	and now some new tracks, mostly just "Smells Like Record of the Year"
	are played to a far wider audience ears.  Although non-commercial radio
	has been playing other tracks since the release first came out other 
	stations are finally picking up others "Lithium", "Come as You Are", 
	etc.  The wider audience is made up of WFNX (Cutting Edge {yek} / 
	Alternative Commercial Radio), WBCN (Mostly Classic hits with some 
	attention to new music and local bands but they could do better in this 
	area especially considering their roots in the early days but I guess
	those who pay the for ads...) WAAF (Rock/metal, etc) and of course
	all over the states on similar format stations.  Not to mention
	Europe where bands from the states generally tend to do pretty
	good.  I hate using those classifications but just so you get the 
	drift it should be clear that their music now reaches far more people
	so what's there not to understand?  Ah, nevermind.
	
	- Jim

>>>    This note is great.  By the time we hit reply 10,000 we should have
>>>    mentioned every musician known to mankind in here.

Right. You can take the work of any artist or group who ever lived
and find someone who doesn't like it. So what's the point? 

It reminds me of those stupid rock concert reviews in the Boston Globe.
Why should I care what someone who obviously doesn't like a performer 
thought of a performance?

Barry

In its previous incarnation I enjoyed this topic tremendously. However, as its
original basenoter attempted (in vain) to point out, since its recreation in the
"new" version of COMMUSIC, it's become more of an "I don't *like* it" note.

As I recall, I'd created a "general SLAM" note, which also served a purpose, I
guess- as a vent for anti-fans of artists- perhaps we should rename this note and
try again on the "I don't get it" part.

Just a suggestion...

Bob

P.S.- On the original topic: I don't understand in general how folks end up
actively hating (as opposed to not liking) a given artist or musical genre.

    So let me see if I understand you... you just don't get the "I just
    don't get it" note.  Have I got that right?
    
    Well, if that's the case, then I don't get why you don't get the "I
    just don't get it" note.
    
    Does anybody not get why I don't get why you don't get the "I just
    don't get it" note?  Because I want to hear from them!  This is
    getting SERIOUS!  Don't anyone go anywhere!  We have to fix this NOW!
    
    \Gary
    
    (By the way, this is COMMUSIC?)

Re: .59



		:-)

I really don't get why you don't get why he doesn't
get the "I don't get it note."

Nope, it's not COMMUSIC...is that a problem for you?


I just don't get it...
./chris

>    (By the way, this is COMMUSIC?)

Duhhhh. I'll be fine after the annual backup/restore of my gray matter...


Regarding not getting not getting (begging the pardon of all Zen folks):

Nah, I *get* not getting... it's *hating* music and artists I don't get...

Get it?

Bob

    I hate not getting it, but I get not hating it.  
    I get it now.
    \Gary

    ..sounds like this topic just slipped into an EST-hole......./k

     I don't get...
    
    *  Michael Jackson who's trying to be white
    *  Markie Mark who's trying to be black
    *  The fact that the New kids on the block were the highest money
       making band according to Forbes magazine
    *  Paula Abdul trying to get respect as a singer/sonwriter
    *  Backup singers who are paid for what they do , then come
       out with the fact that they did the backup singing
    *  How Spinal Tap part II could be anywhere near as hilarious as
       the original
    *  How or why Kiss , Judas Priest or the village people can continue
       to play.
    

    OK...here is someone whose music I LOVE, but "I just don't get" the
    almost cult-like following...
    
    				Kate Bush
    
    I like her music for the most part (even her version of "Rocket Man" is
    endearing itself to me) and I am still trying desparately to find a
    copy of her video (to OWN - not to rent) but I don't see the big deal
    about her.
    
    I just don't get it.
    
    K.C.

    I'm glad so many of you "don't get the dead"....it's hard enough to get
    a freeking ticket as it is!!!!!
                                   deadhead

    If fans of the Grateful Dead are "Dead Heads", are fans of the Talking
    Heads "Head Heads"???
    
    K.C.

    don't know....fans of the Radiators are called "fishheads"
    ....Arlos fans are called "blunderites"
    ....Buffets fans are "parrotheads"
    
                                     
    rfb_alias_deadhead_alias_fishhead_alias_blunderite

    Is there a name for all of those U2ers, if not then there should
    be...@#$%
    
    Joe_alias_headhead

    Fans of Ed's Redeeming Qualities are called Ed Heads.
    
    Card-carrying member,
    Ray

Why is it that a number of rising stars end up on Saturday Night Live, and 
they sound like garage bands (or appear to be bozo's). Recent Examples
are Nirvana and the Black Crows (I don't watch every week, otherwise I'd
list just about every band that ever appeared). I look and wonder how most 
of these clowns ever got a recording contract. I don't get it at all.

							Jens

    
    	Most do sound terrible...but REM sounded great when they were on
    SNL.
    
    B.A.
    

    As far as SNL is concerned, I think whatever levels they thought they
    set during whatever sound check they do, don't come through the TV very
    well, 'cause I've heard some pretty great artists sound not so hot on
    the SNL broadcasts.
    
    Just my $.02
    
    -Jesse

Part (or all?) of the reason might be that SNL actually makes the
bands play live.

-Hal

    Re's
    
    And uhhhh what is so special about SNL itself?

    Well, it USED to be worth the hype (back the first few seasons, with
    the ORIGINAL Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time-Players).
    
    Now SNL is a mere shadow of its former self.
    
    K.C.

    And fans of New Kids on the Block must be Blockheads :^)

    
    re: SNL
    
    It's one of the few places on TV that regularly has live
    performance. 
    
    

	SNL did have a couple of good years recently, but with
	the loss of people like Jan Hooks, Dennis Miller, and
	A. Whitney Brown they've really gone downhill this year.
	I no longer "get it":-).

	As for sound quality on SNL, it's almost always been
	atrocious. Guess it's too much trouble for them to get
	it right just for a couple of songs...

	Mike

    
    	i dunno aboyut snl - when i see repeats of the old shows some of
    them were not so hot anymore either - i think the real novelty was
    they did stuff that was more outrages in the context of the times. 
    
    	As for the music - no matter how well you mike/mix it, it still
    get's delivered on a less than ideal frequency, and frankly there
    are still many bands who can't deliver live what they could over
    several months in a studio.  I prefer it still to listening to waves
    of bad bounces in places like the Garden(especially) or Centrum(even)!
    
    	bob

    ...and fans of The Dickies must be Dickheads.
    
    Unceremoniously Yours,
    
    Barry.

    Playing live on SNL???   How do you explain Vanilla Ice's recent
    performance then?
    
    Personally, I'd prefer the occasional not-so-hot sound of a SNL
    performance over that of some of the other watered-down synthetic,
    computer generated, lip-synched BS that's on the tube lately.  At least
    you get a pretty good idea exactly who has chops and who doesn't. 
    
    Ken.

    
    I always considered SNL the harshest place for a band to play.  The
    small soundstage, coming through the TV, etc., really demolished a lot
    of bands.  If your band could sound good on SNL, well, that was
    some accomplishment in my book.  The bands that were successful, in my
    opinion, were the ones that realized that if they didn't do
    *something* a little different, they were going to sound bad.  Too many
    bands did what they *normally* do and suffered (especially heavier
    bands, not so much so for the mellower folks).
    
    The Kinks have been on a few times and I thought they did a good job
    each time.  Devo was hot.  Living Colour somehow pulled it off too.
    I forget the others.  But I even appreciate the bad ones, because
    it's LIVE and real, and that's the best.
    
    - Sean_who_liked_a_lot_of_newer_casts_way_better_than_the_original_NRFPTP's

    
    G.E. Smith and the band seem to sound  pretty good and generally 
    blow away the guest musicians.  A lot of solo artists come across
    well with G.E. and company as backup.  Is it true that G.E. Smith 
    (plus his bass, keys players) used to play with Hall and Oates?
    
    -pat

    re SNL
    
    One of the best band performances I ever saw on SNL was (and I shudder
    to mention this in this note) the Dead.  Say what you want about their
    music, the SOUND of the band was right on.  As I recall, they came to
    N.Y. early in the week, rented a soundstage, and rehearsed specifically
    to get their sound balanced for T.V.  It worked.

    
    I don't get it, it says this is the I don't get it note, but it seems
    to have degenerated into a discussion of SNL.  Perhaps there should be
    a separate topic for the SNL discussion ? 
    
    JMO, Larry

    
    re-2,
    
    	Yes he did play for Hall and Oates...FWIW
    
    B.A.

    Yes, Living Colour was amazing on SNL.
    
    I thought I remember reading that G.E. Smith used to play with
    McCartney, too.  Or was it Bowie?  Saw his name in a recent article in
    Musician Magazine about one of those guys.

I guess that my point is that after hearing a large majority of the live
musicians that are guests on SNL, they come off sounding horrible, and I
would never buy anything from people that sound that bad (Altho last
week when Nirvana smashed thier gear at the end of their last song, I thought
that it was a fitting end and hopefully they'll take up fishing for a living).

I guess SNL's sound turns me off to many bands. Why don't they know better?
I just don't get it. G.E. Smith & The SNL band sounds great. I have heard a
few others over the years on SNL that sounded very good (Elvis Costello
deciding to change the song that he was playing after he had already started
was a classic - I don't even remember what song he did, but I remember him
for that - Maybe that's the trick; sound horrible so people remember you...).

								Jens

    Puh-leeeeez folks, get off the SNL tangent in this note. Take it to
    another note...
    
    Brian
    MUSIC Mod

    O.K. off the SNL discussion.
    
    I don't get:
    
    George Michael - his songs are terrible (I want your sex?) but what is
                     with the pseudo-punk look.  
    
    Prince - I can't believe no one has mentioned him yet.  His videos
             are sexist and disgusting.  His songs are just as bad.
             And I have seen 12 year old girls have better bodies than
             this guy.  I saw a video with him one with no shirt - its
             like PUT IT ON -- PLEASE.
    
    Michael Jackson - I did like him much better before he turned white.
    
    Sinead O'connor - I want this woman to get off her high horse.  She
                      is down on anything American, but that doesn't stop
                      her from taking American $ at her concerts.
    
    I feel much better now.
    
    Mo
    

    I just don't get neither Michael Bolton nor Mariah Carey.
    
    They're both OK, but IMO, not at all fantastic.  Rather mediocre.  I
    don't HATE 'em; I just don't GET 'em.
    
    K.C.

    Nirvana? Thrash and (then) trash band? That whole scene gets old with me 
    real fast. I just don't get it?
    
    Sinbad, or Sineaid O'Connor? Other than a bald (her choice mind you) person
    with an attitude, I just don't get it? 
    
    
    	Rock on,
    		Fred (who just doesn't understand what all the "hype" is
                      about)
                        

    
    Bruce Hornsby
    
     Is this Christopher Cross on steroids or something ?  Bruce plays
    okay and all, but his voice and his material seems to just be soooo
    boring, like the song will never end.  I guess playing for the 
    Grateful Dead seems like a fitting position for Bruce. 
    
    Lv

	re .93 - I agree, I must be getting old. I can't figure out
	why many bands survive with singers that can't sing worth beans
	(too many bands to list here), and guitar players that are
	tend to live in distortion heaven. I'll admit that some come up
	with an occasional song that I can remember 2 days later,
	but nothing of else much value sees to come from them. 

							Jens

    Someone should tell Diana Ross to lay off the helium.
    It makes her sound just like...
    
    Ms. Kate Bush.   :7)
    
    I CAN'T HELP IT.  I just don't get it.
    \Gary

    RE 97
    
    hahahahahahahahahahaha <|:^)))
    
    Happy valentine
    Jan.

    Well I've now heard the two new Springsteen songs a few times and I
    still don't get it. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't like
    Bruce. His music is ok it's just that it doesn't live up to all the
    hype that it gets.
    
    Jim C.
    

Note:  I haven't heard the new songs yet


I'm a Springsteen fan, but the stuff he writes about gets kind
of old after a while. I mean you can only write so many songs
about cars/women/how bad the economy is, etc. 

Still I like Springsteen and will likely buy both of the new releases,
whether I've heard 'em or not. (A true fan, I guess.. ;^) )

    Since WBCN has been running a "What would you do to see U2" contest, I
    figure I'd run a contest more in line with my personal sentiments:
    "What would you do to *avoid* U2"... No prizes, I'm just interested in
    seeing what fellow U2 slaggers can come up with! :-)
    
    Brian

    I think that should be a topic of its own...this is NOT a slag note.
    
    K.C.

    
    Though I just don't get U2 either, I'm in agreement with K.C. that
    U2 slagging should have it's own note.  While I'm here, I think I'll
    take the opportunity to mention that I just don't get Gloria Estefan.
    
    Her latest tune "Live for Loving You" really grates on my nerves with
    the ooooooo-lalalala's
    
    She does have a couple of tunes that I like, but overall, I just don't
    get it.

    Going to school in Cincinnati for almost five years I have to say that
    I do not get Jimmy Buffet!
    
    
    
    
    (And I'm thankful for it.)
    
    Ed the coop

 I didn't either til about 3 years ago when I saw my first Buffet show. A friend
gave me a couple albums which were OK, but didn't knock me off my feet.  Now
I can't get enough of him.  But then, I also get the Grateful Dead and there
are a lot of similarities to the shows/crowds





Jim

re; .-2

You say you  lived in Cinci, but didn't say if you ever saw Buffett. I
can understand you not 'getting' him simply from his music, but the
guy puts on an unbelievable show...

If you think about it, it is obviously his shows that people like so
much...afterall, the guy has not had a hit in almost 20 years !

tim

    When I was in high school I didn't get Buffett either.  But then I was
    smitten with a good case of wanderlust and my natural love of all
    things nautical REALLY set in...and here I am.  What you see before you
    now....a born again Parrothead!  I'm not really trying to defend JB
    since this _IS_ the "I just don't get it" topic, but I couldn't let me
    fellow Parrotheads down, now could I????!!
    
                                                           Capt. Scott

    
    MICHAEL BOLTON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Yuck !!!

		U2

They're alright I guess, but I don't understand all the uproar.

    
    	I have to agree on the You Two deal...They have good lyrics, the
    music is..how I say...not anything great.  That edge guy relly erks
    me...same ole rythem for every song.
    
    	Oh well..there a lot richer than I'l ever be...but I don't rip
    people off either! :*)
    
    B.A.
    

    My husband thought that something was wrong with our car engine...
    
    
    
    'til he figured that the monotonous ticking sound he heard was the
    guitar riff on a U2 song!
    
    True story...but I don't "get 'em" either.  I LIKE them...but don't get
    the mess.
    
    K.C.

    
    		U2
    
    Nope, I just don't get them either.  Must be something there, but 
    I don't know what that something is.
    
    Lv

    I don't get why Sinead O'Conner wishes her voice to sound "engineered"
    on her albums. Her singing on the The The tune "Kingdom of Rain" is
    tops. Unfortunately everything else I've heard from her sounds like its
    been through 20 machines before it gets on tape.
    
    What a bummer.
    
    Ed the Coop

    I "get" U2 - he may not excel in the way a lot of guitarists seem to be
    measured these days, but I recognize the Edge for his originality.
    
    My "problem" with U2 is that they are exceeded only by the unexceedable
    Sinnead O'Connor when it comes to self-sanctimony.
    
    Perhaps I'm being unfair to the music itself, but the high-and-holy
    aura that pervades every interview/concert/etc that I have EVER
    seen them do just turns me off.
    
    They're very original talented musicians.  But that does not make them
    authorities on morality.

    
    re: .115 - i'm not to keen on the sanctimonious myself, but i don't
    really "get it" from this band, although it often does come from their
    fans.  It's muddy turf anytime you wax on about what your feelings,
    opinions etc are, other than hair/clothing/drug styles etc.
    
    The emotive sense they convey in their shows (i've only heard 'em on
    radio and that bad flick) is powerful - that's the part folk get. I
    see enough effort on their part to remind folk not to take them or
    anyone too seriously.  I think they're stuck with the rap - and
    somewhat admire the fact they recognize and try to deal with it.  Other
    than that, the music kind of leaves me wanting....
    
    	bob
    

    
    Harry Connick Jr.
    
    
    Never got it, never will!
    
    -Ed
    

Harry himself doesn't get it.

    I WANT it!
    
    K.C.

    
    	ya, i'll back up Harry. If nothing else, he has some fine musicians
    playing some fine music. Sometimes he even plays fine piano. And if it
    is derivative (name something that's not), that's cool, because so many
    of the originators of this stuff have long since departed.  There is
    NOTHING like playing in a cookin' big band, and i've done most of the
    venues.  If you let the hype stop you, these days you stay deaf, dumb
    and blind.
    
    	I mean, just because Sinatra's a jerk, doesn't mean he didn't turn
    out great stuff.  Measure artists on the jerk scale and there's no one
    left.
    
    	bob(i think i've said this before...)
    

Be careful trying to defend anyone in this topic.  It's for when people just 
don't get it, and most likely don't really want to.  For instance, if I tried 
to defend the Grateful Dead everytime someone said "I just don't get it" about 
them, this topic would be 1000 notes long and people would most likely feel the 
same way they always have about them anyway.

On that note, I just don't get what's so special about Nirvana.

Scott

re: .121
    
> On that note, I just don't get what's so special about Nirvana.
    
    Neither do I, but I still love 'em.
    
    -Jesse

    
    re: .121 - ya you're right! sorry lost me head a bit there.

    I just don't get
    
    BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN!!!!!
    
    New songs sound like the older ones, which sound like the even older
    ones, and so on and so forth.
    
    Sheez, if the guy could get his voice off of the three notes its been
    stuck on since 1972, he might sound better.
    
    JaKe
    
    

    re:-1
    	Same here I HATE Bruce I hope the new album doesn't mean he'll
    	be on the radio all the time...
    
    	I just don't get how many people love him. 
    
    	                                           Jim

    
    IMHO, he can't sing worth a damn, and his material is pathetic.
    Candy's room roolz though.

    RE: .125
    
    I have some bad news for you...
    
    He has _2_ albums out, which means that he is going to SATURATE the
    airwaves!
    
    Personally, I _like_ him, but don't _love_ him.  My favorite song of
    his is "Pink Cadillac".
    
    K.C.

    
    Springsteen:
    
    The reason I left New Jersey for California!
    
    _Ed_who_loves_the_Beach_Boys!
    

    look out Ed, Bruce must be following you :') he lives in the Hills of 
    LA now

    
    Yeah, and Bon Jovi's his next door neighbor...
    
    At least I don't have to deal with Camaros cruising the strip in 
    Seaside Heights filled with guys named "Vinnie" blasting "Born To Run"
    on their Blaupunkts!!
    
    -Ed
    

    Inspired by the briefest mention of them in HM notes...............
    "IJDG" Jethro Tull. Am I alone on this? I understand they were/are 
    quite popular in the States. Beats me.
    
    barry.   

	I'd say "used to be" but I haven't heard anything in years and I like
	it that way.  And yes, I was the one who noted once liking 'Dull.

	- Jim

    
    Hm, this note seems to have stopped.  Oh well, here I go anyway:
    
    REM by self-proclamation is a generic pop-parody band.  They are
    laughing at 3-minute singles, overly simplistic harmony, and formulaic
    song structures.  I mean "Pop Song '89" should have been a clue.
    
    However, to properly parody something you have to become it.  You have
    to groove to it, and find things to enjoy about it.  I see analogues in
    things like the group Spinal Tap, or the movie "The Player".
    
    That's "it" about REM.  I don't expect previous noters to love them
    now, like all of a sudden.  I like to listen to them once in a while.
    
    I don't get...
    
    Metal Ballads -- They are so predictable, the 15-second intro of badly
                     played acoustic guitar, and then WHRNNNNGG!! when the
                     rest of the band comes in playing a speed metal tune,
                     but just 12 times slower.  And usually, its the only
                     song on the album that has positive lyrics.  I guess 
     		     people are easily sucked in.
    
    All Rap       -- Most of the words are about "What a good rapper I am".
    	             (Usually, there is clear evidence to the contrary.)
    		     I figured everyone would have become tired of this by
                     now.
    
    
    Frank (new to Notes)
    
    

    
    	There are good metal ballads and there are bad metal ballads.
    	Depends on who's doing them and whether they're just written
    	to sell albums.
    
    	Obviously there's not much a vocalist can do to disguise his
    	voice, so the ballads will have the same vocals as the other
    	stuff, but you're stretching it when you say that the ballads
    	are just "slow speed metal".
    
    							GTI
    

    I just don't get Springsteen...
    
    -Jesse

    re: Springsteen
    
    Neither do I and I am FROM New Jersey!
    
    Actually, I understand why people like him.  He does write lyrics
    that tug at familiar things, and the music is both varied and at times
    pretty heady.
    
    Thus, I feel like I should "get it", but I just don't.  Maybe it's the
    hype (and I was in NJ when he broke through) and I got turned off.
    
    Or maybe it's simply that I don't find listening to the lyrics of 
    songs "Born to Run" an enjoyable experience.  
    
    	db

    	OK, they're a fun enough party kind of band, but I feel it is proof
    that talent ISN'T a requirement to "making it"...Or it reflects
    the buying public's tastes...
    	Songs like "Rock Lobster" which had Yoko Ono inspired vocal
    gyrations...inane lyrics, and some of the worst instrumental lines
    ever...but it was a pretty big hit...I brushed them off as a passing
    fad...but they're STILL making records, still hitting the charts, and
    still filled with monotone vocal abilites...
    I don't get it...
    	Particularly when the male "singer" "SINGS" some of the lines
    the way he does...like in "Love Shack"...
    
    "And bring your juke box money!"
    And what exactly do they mean "TIN ROOF....RUSTED"...
    	I guess I just don't get it...
    		I also don't get the singer for 10,000 maniacs...she seems
    to have a nice enough voice, but she insists on singing as close to
    monotone as she can...why???
    	And what about that whiney male singer from REM, man
    Tom T.

    I like the B-52's songs, but I definitely "don't get" the male
    "singer".
    
    His talent is not apparent to me.

    I dont understand the success of Teenage Fan Club....there music is so
    simplistic and boring. Everytime...I hear them on the radio I get
    disgusted thinking that a band like this can get signed.
    
    Bob

 Re B-52's

 >>   	OK, they're a fun enough party kind of band, but I feel it is proof
 >>   that talent ISN'T a requirement to "making it"...Or it reflects

	Disagree most heartily.  The women's talents more than make
	up for any other supposed shortcomings.

	(Especially if you start comparing them with most of the new
	"talent" these days.)

	Di

    ...I don't get...
    
    Jazz
    People over 25 who are still into rock (except for nostalgia)
    People who 'don't get' folk 
    
    Ken
    

    The B52's are camp... you're not supposed to "get it", you're supposed
    to laugh with them, not at them. If you're looking for serious music,
    the 2's are definitely not the place to start. I'm not trying to
    convince anyone they should like the B52s, but I think it is important
    that they should *not* be taken too seriously... I'm sure they'd echo
    that sentiment as well.
    
    Brian

	Brian, while I agree that the B-52's music shouldn't be
	taken too seriously, I don't agree that their talent shouldn't.
	Pretty tough to transcend the mundane into the world of "camp",
	and with such longevity, without a hefty dose of talent,
	n'est-ce pas?
	
	Di

	

    
    
    	I don't get Wilson Philips - the nonstop tedious harmonies can
       really grate on my nerves, add to this the stupid (imo) lyrics 
       and I just don't get it.  Every song I've heard by them sounds 
       almost exactly the same with the honey-dripping harmonies.
    
       Yuck - Lv

    I second that opinion (regarding Wilson Fillups) most emphatically.
    
    Yuck!!!!
    
    Brian

    Why is everyone bashing Wilson Pickett all of a sudden?
    What was wrong with "In The Midnight Hour"?
    No drippy lyrics, no tedious harmonies, just flat-out R&B.
    
    I must be getting old.
    \Gary

    
    You must be getting old and your vision must be failing too :^)
    
    Wilson-Philips is Michelle/John Philips from the Mama's & Papa's
    daughter, and the Wilson's are the daughters of Brian Wilson from
    Beach Boys fame.  One listen and you will probably understand
    immediately.
    
    Wilson Pickett - the man's still as you say imo. 

I think he had his tongue in his cheek.

    as opposed to having it where? :-) ...sorry.
    
    Capt. Scott

    I knew this was a tough neighborhood, but...
    \Gary

    Re .19
    
    >> Neil Young - An aggravating voice, a high-and-holy attitude, and
    >>              boring songs
    
    That, i don't get !!

    I hae been reading all the entries in this notsfile for the last half
    hour.  I have found it funny, serious, damming, and quite informative.
    
    
    but I just don't get........
    
    
    
    
    
    RAP!!!!!!
    I flip through the chanels on the TV and all three video chanles have
    rap videos.  I have tried to distinguish whos who and just can't.  
    
    virginia...(who thinks rap is just people who can't carry a tune)

    I don't get insomnia remedies like The Cure and Depeche Mode.
    
    Mark.

    
    	You mean you don't like "Friday I'm in Love"?
    
    	8^)
    
    	Yeck.  Boring stuff, IMOA [in my opinion, also].
    
    							GTI

    Ray Charles and the Ug-hugh Girls...
    
    Now, that I don't get...
    
    Annie

    How about Deep Purple.  Doesn't the guy have "red" hair???
    
    Yeh, whats up with all the Uh-huh stuff???
    
    
    virginia

    Yeah, What IS up with that Uh-Huh stuff, and for that matter that
    Stupid "Gotta Have it" card? Like it's gonna turn me into Cindy
    Crawford... Well I hope not.
    
    bill.

    Well, if it will make you into Cindy (whats her face), I want one so I
    can be ARNOLD!!!!!!
    
    Of course now we see them Uh-Huh girls in double.  Or would that be
    sixtuble.  
    
    virginia

    As a long time fan of Ray Charles, I cringe and hit the mute button when
    I hear that Pepsi uh-huh ad. Glad to know that it annoys others. :)

    What don't I get? I don't get most Rap and I don't get most metal bands.
    Posers, IMHO.

The "uh-huh" is a faint echo of "What'd I Say?"

    I caught the second song on this weekend's Saturday Night Live by the
    Red Hot Chili Peppers.  Somebody tell me, do these guys practice real
    hard to sound like they never practice, or what?  Do they always sound
    like that?  I don't like everything I hear, especially lots of "modern"
    R&R ("modern" for me is anything after the Beatles broke up), but I've
    never seen such a woeful display of musicianship being broadcast to a
    major audience.  Did I just catch them on an off night, or am I
    hopelessly out of touch?
    
    								Marc
                           

> Did I just catch them on an off night, or am I
>     hopelessly out of touch?
>     
>     								Marc

	I dunno if it's "hopeless" or not but if you don't like much of "modern
R&R" (which you define as music that came out after the Beatles breakup), yes
Marc, I'd say you are definitely out of touch.

	Mark (who saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan)

    I agree Marc, you are hopelessly out of touch. I don't think you
    caught them on an off night (though 'under the bridge' the second
    song never sounds quite right live) but the definitely rock and
    Flea (the bassist) is phenomenal. You missed out on him in under-
    wear and sox only on Lollaopalooza.
    
    -Bill
    

    
    
    		MARC
    
    
    YES you are hopelessly out of TOUCH !!! sorry Dude..
    
    Mark , take Marc to an ANTHRAX concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    		into the PIT!! :*)
    
    
    			wendy o'
    
    
    

    Stone Cold Bush in that performance was a bit off.  Also, I think the
    Chili Peppers are yet another in a long line of victims of sounding
    like sh*t on SNL.  I've yet to hear anyone who was totally "up to
    snuff" when they were on SNL, and I've seen most of them (this may be a
    little bit of an overstatement, but I'm biased where RHCP is
    concerned).
    
    -Jesse

    I agree that any band that goes on Saturday Night Live pretty
    much cut their own b*lls off. You just can't get the big sound
    from a club through a TV set.
    
    There is also G.E. Smith (the band leader) who cuts his b*lls
    off every time he acts like the dork he is on stage. All in
    favor of a mercy killing... can I see a show of hands
    
    -Bill
    
    (Stone Cold Bush is my favorite RHCP song)
    

    It's G.E Smiths Swagger that really makes me wanna hurl.
    He acts like he thinks he's Gods_Gift_to_Guitar_Players.
    
                Crazy_He_Is_NOT_Al

	I COMPLETELY agree that the sound on SNL sucks.  Almost everybody
sounds sub-par on that show and I don't think it has anything to do with
the TV sound (MTV unplugged and countless other shows sound just fine).  
Whoever does the sound on SNL should be flogged.

/ml

    I din't say and didn't mean and it isn't so that I don't like most 
    of "modern R&R," although I can see how my remarks could have been 
    interpereted that way.  There's quite a bit that I do like, maybe even
    a majority of what I hear. 
    
    I am rather unimpressed by HM in general, and I wonder if a live 
    Anthrax concert would change my mind.
    
    At any rate, it wasn't that the band didn't sound "full" or something
    on SNL/TV.  I can accept that it won't sound like 25th row center at
    carnegie hall.  What struck me about the performance was that the lead
    vocals seemed kinda out of tune and unmusical, and the rest of the
    band didn't seem like they were particularly interested in playing
    together as a band.  Just seemed very unprofessional to me.
    
    I'll keep my ears open for more of their material.

    
    	Ummm, if you're not a HM fan, I wouldn't suggest starting with
    	an Anthrax concert.  Too loud and "heavy" for the uninitiated.
    
    	Try to check out Metallica, if possible.  Or Judas Priest.
    
    							GTI
    

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><Or Judas Priest.
    
    
    
    		OH PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
    
    
    
    			wendy o'
    
    

    
    Just don't understand . .
    
    Phil Collins - dull
    Michael Bolton - dull
    Black Crowes - dull and unpracticed
    C & C Music Factory - name says it all 'factory'
    New Kids - dull, dull, dull
    Madonna - this woman is NOT that attractive
    Bon Jovi - typical dull metal wanna-be band
    Night Ranger - see Bon Jovi
    Warrant - see Night Ranger
    Stryper - see Warrant
    Guns n Roses - see Stryper
    Kiss - at leat with the make-up they were fun to LOOK at
    	   (actually I kinda like their old stuff)
    Traveling Wilburys - just didn't work
    Nirvana - mumble mumble thrash guitar . . . what?
    Michael Jackson - good dancer, decent voice, inane lyrics, bad songs.
    
    Also, I will never, ever understand the seemingly widespread appeal of
    country-western music.  Why do people listen to, and enjoy this stuff? 
    Could someone explain the appeal to me . . .
    
    						-Jimbo
    
    PS- Hank Williams Jr is the antichrist.
       

    Jimbo,
    
    The apeal of C and W music is it tells a story and is *sometimes* close
    to real life.  Also, You can understand the words!!!!!
    
    I listen to all kinds of music, it just depends on my moods.
    
    I don't get....heavy metal stuff either

                           Heavy_Metal..
    
             RRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZ!!!!
    
    
    
    
      Crazy_Showin_My_Intelligence_Al

    
    
    	OK,  I don't hate heavy metal, I just try to avoid it like the
    stomach flue.  My brother had a heavy metal band at one time.  I never
    listen to them either.  to say, he isn't playing in a band anymore.
    
    vlm

re: .173

>    Also, I will never, ever understand the seemingly widespread appeal of
>    country-western music.  Why do people listen to, and enjoy this stuff? 
>    Could someone explain the appeal to me . . .
>    
>    						-Jimbo
>    
>    PS- Hank Williams Jr is the antichrist.
       
I needed a good smile today!  I like country music (among other things),
but I agree that Hank Jr is the antichrist.  :-)

    
    Hmmm... Hank Jr. is one of the few coutry artists I love listening to.
    
    - Sean

    Re: 161 (RHCP)
    
    Mark, I don't get them either.  And I listened carefully to their Mojo
    Uplift Party (or something like that) CD on a good stereo system to try
    to figure out what the big deal was.  
    
    They sound like they never even played together before, let alone
    practiced much.  I don't get it...
    
    Re: C&W Music
    
    Do you get dancing?  A lot of those who do, "get" C&W.
    
    Ken

    
    Re C & W
    
    	Yes, you can understand the words.  Yes, you can (square) dance to
    it.  I still don't get it, don't like it and really just don't
    understand the appeal of listening to a guy moaning about his dog,
    pickup truck, wife, mom-in-law, etc, etc.  And just what the heck is an
    "Achy-Breaky Heart" anyways??  Sounds like a personal problem if you
    ask me.
    
    	The Red Hit Chili Peppers, on the other hand.  No, you often can't
    understand the words.  Yes, you can (slam) dance to it.  THIS, I
    understand, this I like and this I fully understand and appreciate the
    appeal of, dammit.  Also Fishbone, George Clinton, most Ska, Funk and
    Soul.  So there.
    
    						-Jimbo
    

    
    
    	C&W isn't just about Momma, trucks, dogs, trains,  ect.....
    
    	It is also about hard times (like now), the love between a husband
    and wife, mother and son, father and daughter, ect.......
    
    	AND YOU CAN UNDERSTAND EVERY WORD!!!  :-)))
    
    	I dance to C&W music and I love it.  The country bars I go to also
    play alot of oldies rock and rap.  We are very opened minded people and
    we give other people and their music a chance before we pass judgement. 
    I have never found a more reliable and trustworthy group.  
    
    Virginia         Country-Critter
    

    RE: CW fans ...
    I agree 100%.  I play part-time in a CW band, and those crowds are the
    best in the world.  I've played in classic rock bar bands (the crowds
    were similar) and heavy metal bands (the crowds were to zonked to
    care).  And, one thing I *really* like about CW is that it knows no age
    limits.  We can play a VFW club (older folks) with the same set lists
    as a regular bar (18 and up) with no problem, and these folks get long
    well with eachother.
    
    RE: RHCP ...
    Try Bloodsugarsexmagic.  Very good chili peppers ...
    
    Jerry

re: .182

>    And, one thing I *really* like about CW is that it knows no age
>    limits.  We can play a VFW club (older folks) with the same set lists
>    as a regular bar (18 and up) with no problem, and these folks get long
>    well with eachother.
    
Also, there's much less need to be 20 years old and attractive to 14-year olds
to make it in the country music business.

    One thing I noticed last night at Catus Jacks was every body just
    talked to each other like one big happy family.  I have always been
    that way at country bars.  I see someone I want to talk to, I just
    waltz on over and talk to them.  It's great, we just dance and party
    together like old friends.
    
    VirginiaZ

    
    Can you say "two step"?  C&W is GREAT to dance to and I don't dance.
    AND, just because you _square_ dance doesn't mean you are one. 
    
    C&W artists tend to be more attractive (visually) too, and that's
    comin' from someone who hangs out with bikers.  8)  The men are
    generally clean cut and handsome (not that that would interest me)
    and the ladies are just plain wholesome... growwwwl, wink, wink.
    
    RE: Back a few... it's spelled "rules" and HM only gets worse (if that's
        possible) with added volume.
    
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to satisfy their own
    musical appetite, so listen to and enjoy whatever blows you skirt up.
    
    FWIW, Billy Ray Cyrus and Axel Rose are the same person, he sucks.
    
    Thank you.  8)
    
    *Disclaimer*  No offense was intended, hope there was none taken.
                                                           
                                               

    
    RE - Bunches past . . .
    
    	Well, I suppose I understand the appeal now . . . C & W still makes
    me gag, however.  Although, in the interests of fairness (and honesty)
    - I DO like Bonnie Raitt.  Is she country?  
    	I guess the down-home, good-feeling twangy type of stuff is ok for
    some, but gimme Fishbone and the Chili Peppers anytime.
    
    						-Jimbo

    
    
    Bonnie Raitt isn't country but alot of her songs end up on the country
    charts.  I think she just does music she likes and sounds good doing,
    where ever it ends up.  I love country music but can be turn off by
    some of the "twangie-er" stuff.  I dance to almost anything and love to
    swing.  Country music isn't for everyone but it is for me.  (comercial
    time)
    
    Virginia

    
    
    Bonnie Raitt is more along the lines of blues or rock (if not one, 
    than a mixture of the two).  
    

    >>>> Bonnie Raitt is more along the lines of blues or rock (if not one,
        than a mixture of the two).
    
    I have to really DISAGREE with the  ""or rock""
    	country maybe but NOT ROCK!!
    
    COUNTRYrock , yes but not rock and roll!!
    and definately NOT H_M. :*)
    
    			wendy o'
    
    
    	
    

    
    	RE: Wendy'O
    
    	Unfortunately, "rock" is used for a wide variety of music, so
    	almost anything could classify as "rock".
    
    	Just like Metallica and Poison are both "metal".
    
    							GTI

    
    Hmm, I just don't get Bonnie Raitt myself.  Can't quite put a finger
    on it either.  What she does she does well, but it seems quite boring
    to me.  She has this kind of nasal overtone to her voice that I don't
    care for, and her music just seems to lack excitement. I do however 
    have to commend her for sticking to the music she likes to play, and 
    not selling out over the years to become a commercial success. Still,
    I find her more effective then a tablet of Sominex.
    
    Lv

    If you don't think Bonnie Raitt rocks you ain't never heard her do John
    Hiatt's (Are You Ready for this) Thing Called Love. She rocks. Oh yeah.

    RE: back a few
    
    Just for the record:
    Poison is *not* metal...
    
    ;-)
    Chad

I don't get H_M in the first place, but I REALLY don't get...the difference
between all of the "forms" of H_M.  For instance, what are "speed metal",
"thrash metal", etc?

What do you call the version where the guys twirl their heads around in circles?
Hair Metal?

>>I don't get H_M in the first place, but I REALLY don't get...the difference
>>between all of the "forms" of H_M.  For instance, what are "speed metal",
>>"thrash metal", etc?

There is no difference - it's all you-can-fool-some-of-the-people-
all-of-the-time crapola.

    
    I was riding in the car with my folks the other day... (I was driving
    us home from a Sox game).  First we listened to Disposable Heroes of
    Hiphopracy (at sort of rap/hip hop thing... very cool) and the we
    listened to old Ministry (sort of industrial/dance music... NOT
    anything like rap).
    
    My Father starts going on about how this all sounds the same and how he
    didn't realize that we changed the band we were listening to.  Then Mom
    jumps in and says that's exactly what thier parents said when they
    started listening to Rock and Roll in the late 50's.  WAY TO GO MOM!
    
    The point is, it depends on what you listen to, and how much time you
    spend listening to it.  I used to think all classical sounded the
    same... but it most certainly doesn't.  Because of this, I can see how
    people can say "all heavy metal sounds the same"... 
    
    Later...
    Steve
    
    
    

    
    I just don't get people thinking John Hiatt's music is rock.  I believe
    I saw him on Hee Haw.

    anthrax \an-thraks\ noun [ME antrax carbuncle, fr. L anthrax, fr.
    Gk coal, carbuncle] (1876): an infectious disease of warm-blooded
    animals (as cattle and sheep) caused by a spore-forming bacterium
    (Bacillus anthracis), transmissible to man esp. by the handling of
    infected products (as hair), and characterized by external
    ulcerating nodules or by lesions in the lungs.

What a great name for a band! It conjures up lots of positive images
and opens up whole new vistas for future bands. How about:

   Leprosy
   Shingles
   Smallpox
   Mange
   Malaria
   
There are so many other disgusting diseases in the world that the
possiblities are virtually endless!

Barry

  >>  Because of this, I can see how
  >>  people can say "all heavy metal sounds the same"... 

    I don't think it all sounds the same - I think it all sounds pretty
    bad and it strikes me as a money-making travesty.

    Di
    

        
    
    

        
    I don't get it, but I understand how it can happen...
    
    This spurred by the "Bonnie Raitt is NOT rock" reply.  Folks tend to
    lump similar "sounding" music/artists into preconceivied categories
    based on their own opinion.  For example, Dan Seals, a country artist,
    did a tune called Bop a number of years ago that was on the top 10 pop
    chart for quite a while.  The Doobies, "Larry the Logger 2-step" is 
    definitley bluegrass, but are the Doobies?  NOT!  How'bout BTO's 
    "Looking out for number one"?  CLEARLY Jazz, but "Takin' care of business"
    and "Hey you" are rock tunes...
       
    While I can not tell the difference between most HM tunes/bands, I 
    can't say that they all sound the same...  I'm partial to Jazz-Fusion
    and I KNOW that many people (even with a trained ear) couldn't tell you
    who was playing.  
    
    Tim
    
       

    re:  198
    
    		Maybe that is why they sound so bad, their trying to sing
    and are in soooo much pain, it just doesn't sound right.
    
    	Not an excuse, just an observation

re Note 96.198  Barry Rogoff
    
>What a great name for a band! It conjures up lots of positive images
>and opens up whole new vistas for future bands. How about:
>
>   Leprosy
>   Shingles
>   Smallpox
>   Mange
>   Malaria
    
    Man, you need to check out the HEAVY_METAL notesfile.  Actually
    band names are FAR more interesting than that.
    
    Here's an ACTUAL excerpt from a note in HEAVY_METAL:
    
    >        I think you and the rest members of your band will like that
    >    record label.  They signed lot of godly bands like:  Incantation,
    >    Blasphemy, Rottrevore,  Zombified Preacher of Gore, Gorephobia,
    >    Human Remains, Rotting Christ, Funeral Nation, Necrophobic, Phlegm,
    >    Ritual Sacrifice, Hellwitch........
    
    

    I don't get people trying to pigeon-hole artists and musical styles.

>>    I don't get people trying to pigeon-hole artists and musical styles.

	I once read an article where someone said that he thought it
	was possible to be so open-minded that your brain slips out.
	I don't get people whining about other people having an opinion
	on a style of music.  It doesn't reflect on one's powers of
	discernment.  It seems perfectly reasonable to me that a person
	could listen to all different kinds of music, and develop 
	an appreciation for 90 percent of them, but come to the conclusion,	
	after due consideration, that they really don't see any value in
	the other 10.
	What's the big deal?   

	Respectfully,
	Diane

Beat me to it db...

Actually Leprosy might be kind of "catchy" for a band name...

Tim

    	what did you do DB??? Pull out a /prc article??
    :*)
    
    Bonnie Raitt , rocks , especially when she doesn "thing called LOVE"
    
    		NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    anyway GTI......
    	 POISON?? comeon' cant you think of something a little 
    more original than that. You must be grasping at straws.
    
    I'm defending or putting down any type of music, Just stating
    Boinnie Raitt isnt that good (she doesnt rock in MY book) but she 
    does have good songs... 
    
    			wendy o'
    

Re: .202

>>>    Man, you need to check out the HEAVY_METAL notesfile.
>>>    Here's an ACTUAL excerpt from a note in HEAVY_METAL:
>>>    >    ...They signed lot of godly bands like:....Rotting Christ...

Dave, I'm sure that "Rotting Christ" is indeed a "godly" band, dedicated 
to creating enduring works of art that uplift the human spirit. I just
can't wait to read the HEAVY_METAL notesfile. Thanks so much for the
pointer.

Barry

    re:  96.187
    
    Crossing over the charts is excellent for any performer! Call it
    country, call it folkrock, call it pop, call it anything you want
    cause it all money in Bonnie Raitt's bank account!
    
    I think it's cool personally!
    
    
    Fred (who likes alot of different music including Bonnie Raitt)

    
    Re garding 'pigeon-holing' artists . . .
    
    	Well, take Joe Jackson.  most of his stuff is rock/pop.  But
    compare Jumpin' Jive, Beat Crazy and Night and Day.  The man's actually
    been criticized for being TOO diverse.  ( Like that's a BAD thing. )
    
    					-Jimbo
    
    PS : A Thing Called Love_ does rock, dammit.

.204 by PENUTS::DDESMAISONS >>>
>	I don't get people whining about other people having an opinion
> 	on a style of music.  

    I don't get your reply, Diane. I never said people shouldn't have
    opinions. I wonder why some people try so hard to catagorize specific
    artists as "country", "blues", "rock", whatever. It's a silly and futile
    excersize in my opinion. "Pigeon-holing" has nothing to do with
    critique.

    --Ron

> I wonder why some people try so hard to catagorize specific
>     artists as "country", "blues", "rock", whatever. It's a silly and futile
>     excersize in my opinion. "Pigeon-holing" has nothing to do with
>     critique.

	I agree, but this is often a tough call. In an album review, for example,
I want the reviewer to begin with a description of the music before advertising 
his/her subjective opinions.  The nature of human communication requires use 
of references (a particular color red looks like a fire engine, a particular
band sounds bluesy, etc.).  Given this, it's very challenging to describe
a piece of music to someone (ie: a fellow noter) without referencing commonly 
agreed upon labels to some extent.  There can be a VERY fine line between the 
an "objective" description of a style and "Pigeon-holing".  

	Clearly, it's more difficult to describe an artist's style over a 
period of time by using a few common stylistic labels (Joe Jackson's a great 
example).  Much better to specify a particular piece of music or even a point
in an artist's career.

/ml

>>    I don't get people trying to pigeon-hole artists and musical styles.

	Sorry if I misunderstood this, Ron.  I agree that artists 
	shouldn't be judged by small samples of their work.  I thought
	you were also saying that one couldn't make a blanket statement
	about a musical style, and that I wouldn't agree with.  It
	depends on the percentage on which you're basing the assessment, I
	think.  I don't believe that you can't say "I don't like
	peaches" just because there might be one out there which, through
	some fluke of nature, tastes like a banana.  I don't like
	heavy metal.  Period.  I like almost any other style of music
	that I've ever heard.  Maybe there are some good heavy metal
	bands out there, relative to the rest of the heavy metal world,
	but that doesn't mean that I don't think it's garbage, as a whole.
	Futile?  I don't understand.  I didn't have any particular
	goal in mind - I was just voicing an opinion.  Again, in all
	sincerity, I apologize for misinterpreting you.

	Di

    No problem Di. I'm just being a pest. :)

    --Ron

Could someone explain what is behind the term "unplugged"?  And now I see that
Springsteen is "plugged" ??

ccb

    
    
     Re.-1 I believe the term "unplugged" means basically acoustic, without
           all the fuzz and effects. Sort of an attempt to show us they
           really do have talent.8^). 
    
    
    ChAoS
    

Thanks VERY much.  I've wondered longly about this and felt too stupid to
ask :-)

    215 is a *very* good question. If you watch these acts (on MTV) you can
    plainly see "plugs" all over the place. I've been running sound for a
    folk mucis coffee house for 5 years now & the majority of performers
    *do* use direct boxes or FX boxes (this is *folk*) &/or delay on
    vocals, so maybe "unplugged" is a relative term. The one that makes me
    laugh the most is the hollow body bass (electric of course). These
    people should use a stand up (with frets ?). 
    	If MTV ever does reruns of these, (I have no cable.) you might make
    a point of catching The Cure. They used a bell piano (almost a toy) to
    great effect.
    						-Paul
     

    I tried to listen to Neil Young's "Harvest Moon" with an open mind.
    I know I have posted notes here before about how I didn't think he was
    a guitar god, but as a songwriter I thought he had earned his place in
    history.
    
    Our local listener-sponsored non-commercial FM station has played quite
    a bit of the new album since its release.  I thought it would be great
    to hear Neil "return to his roots".
    
    What we have is what I can only describe as a parody of his earlier
    greatness.  The lyrics are so lame that I think they required more
    effort than if he had tried to write good ones.  It is painful to
    listen to this album (not the musicianship so much as the lame tunes
    and embarrassing lyrics).  
    
    This reminds me of Eric Clapton's Unplugged in the sense that if:
    (a) some lesser known or unknown artist had released it, and
    (b) it had to play to the avant-garde acoustic/folkie scene,
    it would have gone unnoticed.  But at least Unplugged is an otherwise
    innocuous, listenable opus.  Harvest Moon is not.
    
    Reporting from Grand Rapids,
    \Gary

    I've been a Neil Young fan for a long time.  I used to listen to my
    brother's copies of 'Harvest' and 'After the Gold Rush' in the early
    '70s.
    
    Neil apparently didn't like the guff that Geffen was giving him.  In
    return, he put out crap for Geffen until his contract was up.  Then he
    re-signed with Warner/Reprise.
    
    Now, I don't know if he's burned out or just so used to putting out
    pure crap from the Geffen years that he can't get back into the swing
    of things.  'Freedom' was, for the most part, a great album IMO.  But
    'Raging Glory' was nothing but feedback and nothing really stands out
    on 'Harvest Moon'.
    
    Also, I just bought 'Lucky Thirteen'.  This appears to be a collection
    of Geffen era songs (and not even the best of the era!).  This is
    probably one of the biggest mistakes in my record collection.
    
    tom_p

    TomP,
    
    	that Lucky 13 is just that...a cashin' for Geffen...I don't think 
    neil gave a sh!t what was on it cause it was not his release. it was a
    buy out type release...it got him out of his contract with Geffen

    A cashin' in for Geffen ??
    
    Some of the tracks on Lucky 13 have not appeared on disc before. In the
    booklet it states "From the Neil Young archives".
    Does that mean that Geffen has access to these archives and can use
    (some of) the recordings? Or did Neil co-operate?
    
    - Minne

> that Lucky 13 is just that...a cashin' for Geffen...

Neil still owed them one more "Best Of" collection on his contract.

> I don't think  neil gave a sh!t what was on it cause it was not his release. 

Actually, Neil was directly involved in the choosing of the songs. I remember 
a recent interview with him, and he stated that he wanted to pick some stuff 
that he thought was overlooked from his Geffen years.

alan

    re .219, I think Harvest Moon is a really good album.  I think a few of
    the songs stand out, including the title cut.  Each to their own.
    
    Lorna
    

	Despite not being a Neil Dung fan, I can't understand why he'd
	simply put out an album of trashy songs just to end a contract.
	Your fans are the judges in the end regardless, and if it was me,
	I'd still want to put out quality music to maintain my own 
	integrity.  

	Lv

    re: .224
    
    I was thinking the very same thing.  

    Re: last few
    
    I think the issue with Geffen was that Neil's commercial high points
    have been his "acoustic" sides, notably "Harvest", but when he went to
    Geffen what did he give them, a country album, a rockabilly, "Trans"
    (or was that for Warners?), a *blues* album, everything but an acoustic
    album!  So he goes back to Warners, does a raging rocker, follows with
    a live set and then *two* acoustic sets in a row (all four of which
    sold well, too).  David Geffen must be *really* p*ssed now  8^)  8^)
    
    I don't think Neil spends too much time worrying about his audience,
    and his reputation for integrity is based mostly on his 
    "who-cares-if-it'll-sell" attitude.  Noone else would have followed
    "Harvest" with "Time Fades Away", "On The Beach" and "Tonight's the
    Night".
    
    							Brian

    	Once I actually liked the Doors. But after hearing keyboards that
    didn't sound like skating rinks (i.e., ELP's Karn Evil 9) I just lost
    it, and still have. Despite attempts from others, namely people with a
    lot of depth (Hi, Michelle!), it just doesn't work for me. Wierd
    lyrics, where's_the_real_bass_player_he's_not_Tony_Levin, and so forth.
    
    	The Dead also come to mind. They're not a concept, like the Tubes
    or Motorhead, they just are. Yawn. Listening to them reminds me of old
    polkas that sound the same for hours on end. Diversity? Try ELP.
    Musicianship? Try Holdsworth, Tribal Tech, etc.
    
    	Micheal Boloton<---NOT A TYPO) sounds like a man with a vise grip
    hanging on his naughty bits. Women (at least the type I used to date)
    gush at the sight of this ex-heavy metal knob. This dork changed over
    from heavy metal to crooning. Must be because he's so dedicated to his
    'style' of music. 
    
    	I could go on....Led Zep, The Who, etc. All hype...I don't think
    anybody who started listening to then in 7th grade bothered to ask
    themselves what this stuff really was. I really hope the 'Classic Rock'
    radio format dies a painful, immediate death.
                                   

    yo' salzmann
    
    who do you like?
    
    curious

    
    I think just ELP!  :^) :^)

    What ever happened to good mindless "Acid Rock"? 
    
    sean.
    

    	Umm....I guess I got carried away. I like ELP (that's given :), Alan
    Holdsworth, Tribal Tech, King Crimson, Pat Metheny, etc.
    
    	Now that I'm off the high horse, I also like The Cult, Rush, Steely
    Dan, Crash Test Dummies, Ministry, Garth Brooks (Wanna buy a used
    CD??), The Smiths, Pink Floyd, John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, UB40,
    Marillion, Gowan, The Tubes, Peter Gabriel, Harry Connick Jr (His
    singing SUCKS, but the music is a scream), Genesis, Boston, Queen, Yes,
    Formula One Racing, Fig Newtons, Pizza, easy thesis topics, hockey,
    OS/2, Mystery Science Theater 3000, coffee made with a meloir,
    extra-virgin olive oil....I think you get the idea.
    
    	Hope I didn't sound too stuffy....life is too important to take
    seriously.

    
    Pat Metheny - I just don't get him.  Yeah, he plays great, but is 
    boring - boring - boring !  I've got a couple of friends who worship
    the guy and I've heard lot's of his music, to me, there's some major 
    noodling going on here with an occasional burst of brilliance.  Not 
    enough for me to spend my money on however.
    
    Lv

Steely Dan.  Never have, never will.  They play songs that are kind of boring
and sing out of tune.  I do think they are good musicians, but don't get their
music.

Tim

    
    jon secada!
    billy ray cyrus!
    rap music!

    
    At one point I was a big Steely Dan fan, but somehow the magic has
    disappeared.  Perhaps it was their era and the music somehow hasn't
    aged well to me.  I still like some tunes, but when I try to listen
    to a whole album, it gets boring.
    

    
    re: Steely Dan sing out of tune ...
    
    I just don't get that - they are always right on ...
    
    And Metheny is a god, especially the 'Pat Methey Group' stuff ...
    
    Oh, and ELP isn't too bad ((:^))
    
    - acp

    
    	Never really got into Steely Dan until last year, but then I
    	finally realized how amazing the band is.
    
    	Agreed, the vocals aren't the best [but they're not too bad,
    	either], but the band more than makes up for it.
    
    							GTI

    Inspired by the string in the Rod Stewart note...
    
    For the life of me I just don't get U2. I'm never impressed with
    3-chord wonder bands, and these guys seem to cut the stakes by 2.
    
    What *is* it about this band that would inspire folks to make trans-
    Atlantic journeys to see them? Their talent lends itself more to a
    failing garage band than the stardom they've attained.
    
    Go figure.
    
    Edd

    re .238, when musicians don't like a band, or solo artist, they always
    seem to make reference to the fact that the person can't hit the notes,
    or only plays 3 chords or something.  Well, I don't even know what a
    chord *is* and I wouldn't know if a song contained 3 chords or a
    hundred (is there such a thing?) :-), but I know what I like, and I
    like the sound of U2's music.  That's all.  It just sounds good to me,
    just like chocolate ice cream tastes good, and roses look pretty.  It's
    just a natural, gut reaction.  I don't have to analyize it.  However, I
    could add that I do like a lot of U2's lyrics.  They often seem to
    express the way I have felt about something at some time, and/or seem
    clever to me.  Also, as a live band they have an incredible amount of
    energy.  When I saw U2 in Providence last year, I had second row seats,
    and Bono is a very charismatic performer.  He puts a lot of energy and
    emotion into his performance, and also seems to care a lot about his
    fans.  
    
    But, it's okay if you don't get it, Edd.  They're all
    multi-millionaires.  They've managed to make it without you.  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    >Inspired by the string in the Rod Stewart note...
    
    >For the life of me I just don't get U2. I'm never impressed with
    >3-chord wonder bands, and these guys seem to cut the stakes by 2.
    
    Weeeeell, seeing as I was responsible for the U2 digression in the Rod
    Stewart note...
    
    I *used* to be crazy about U2. To me, everything they did from "Boy"
    until "Live Under A Blood Red Sky" was gold-dust. "The Unforgettable
    Fire" was pretty good too. And then...
    
    I just started to doubt their integrity. The umpteenth pretentious
    declaration by Bono probably had something to do with it, together with
    the dark glasses, limousines, bare-chested photos, silly headwear, etc.
    but musically speaking, I just felt that the band had lost 90% of their 
    fire and become a stadium act. Personally, for live entertainment I
    prefer to see people like Richard Thompson, Graham Parker, Elvis
    Costello, Tom Waits or Willy DeVille, where you never quite know what's
    going to be served up. Still, to each his own. 
    
    Every now and then, I still hear something by U2 that appeals to me
    but it invariably pales in comparison with New Year's Day, I Will
    Follow, Twilight, etc.
    
    Dom 
    

    In case anyone thinks I might be "bashing" them, that's not it. The
    truth is, I can't even work up enough emotion over the band to dislike 
    them! Total nothingness to me...
    
    I's just wondering what it is about them.
    
    Edd

    I thought this was the "I don't get it" topic. No need to get
    defensive if someone doesn't "get" a group that you do. When one
    does get defensive they seem to be taking things too personally.
    
    Cheer up, you get'm and that is all that should really matter.
    
    :')=
    
    Jim C.
    

    re .242, I wasn't getting defensive.  Why should I?  I'm not Bono.  :-)
    
    I was only trying to explain to Edd why I like U2, since he seemed to
    be curious what it is some people see in them.  Personally, I don't see
    that as being out-of-place in this topic.  I'd just like to help Edd
    understand the world around him.  :-)
    
    Lorna
     
    

    After all, I *did* ask.
    
    > I'd just like to help Edd understand the world around him. 
    
    Good luck.
    
    Edd

    
    Just for the record, my own "Just Don't Get It" list includes the
    following:
    
    - Talking Heads
    - Joni Mitchell
    - Joan Armatrading
    - Led Zeppelin

    These are the ones that spring to mind at the moment - there are
    others. Actually, I rate all of them pretty highly, and I own
    records by Talking Heads, Joni Mitchell and Led Zep; it's just that I've 
    never been able to get totally into them, i.e. I always feel I'm missing 
    something that everyone else can hear.
    
    Then again, Elvis Costello was once on the list, and he's now one of my
    favorite artists!
    
    Dom
     

A friend of mine back in school loved all things Irish, so I was listening
to U2 back around '79/'80.  With disco still nauseating my skull, and punk
hate the new thing, I thought U2 Was Going to Save Rock 'N' Roll.  Like the
author of a few notes back, I loved nearly everything they did up until
The Unforgettable Fire.  After that, I got turned off for the same reasons
... the pretentiousness, etc. ... plus their music just doesn't seem to have
the same passion that it did then.  It seems like music for lovers more than
music for angry young people.  Which is OK, I guess.

Oh yeah, the topic.  IJDG C/W.

- DC

    re .246, well, maybe Bono's not an angry young man, anymore.  Afterall,
    he's a 33 yr. old multi-millionaire now, so maybe he's not being
    pretentious, maybe he's just being himself.   :-)
    
    Anyway, my favorite U2 albums are Joshua Tree and Achtung Baby.  I've
    never gotten into their really early stuff myself.  In fact, I started
    liking them with The Unforgettable Fire.
    
    Lorna
    

Sure, he's gotten older and his style has changed, that's fine.  Some
people have commented on the simplicity (three-chordedness or whatever)
of U2's music ... I felt that their earlier albums had a passion and
intensity which made the music special, aside from their skill as musicians
(and they admit that they had little of that skill when they did their first
album).

I felt that way about early REM, too.  Their music is still pleasing to
hear, but IMO has mellowed and just doesn't grab me like it used to.

    
    I don't understand how U2 grew to be so big either. 
    
    But
    
    >What *is* it about this band that would inspire folks to make trans-
    >Atlantic journeys to see them? 
    
    Any excuse to make a trans-Atlantic journey is valid ;-)
    To see a place you've never seen before, any reason is as good as
    another.
    
    Lale (the ultimate tourist)

    Well, *I* just don't get Jimmy Buffet.  
    
    He had that one dumb song.  Who cares?  :-)
    
    
    Lorna
    

    Actually, I also "don't get" U2 but...
    
    I do recognize that whatzisname (the guitar player: Edge?) does have
    a very original and unique approach to the guitar.   That aspect
    of the band is one that I do "get".
    
    I also think that Bono has a great voice.
    
    So they have a great, original guitar player, and a great voice? 
    What's missing?:  music.  Just don't care much for their writing.
    "Pride" is the only song that I "get".
    
    Also definitely don't care for their preachyness.
    
    As bad as politicians are, I'm not sure the world would be a better
    place with musicians running it.  
    
    	db

    Re. 250 (Jimmy Buffett) 
    
    This guy's a virtual unknown in the U.K., but he seems to be popular
    enough in the U.S. to command a topic all to himself in here ... how
    would you best describe/categorize the kind of music that he makes?
    
    - Dougie

    Re: .252
    
    Buffett could be lumped in with the mid-70s LA singer-songwriters in
    general style.  His writing tends towards lighter and more humorous
    topics than most of his contemporaries (J. Browne, D. Fogleberg,
    Eagles, etc.), however and he has been living in Florida for quite some
    time so themes of lazing about on the beach, etc. are common in his
    songs.  
    
    I'm sure some Buffett fan will disagree with me totally  8^)  8^)
    
    						Brian

    re: .251
    
>    As bad as politicians are, I'm not sure the world would be a better
>    place with musicians running it.  
    
    You may be right, but I like the sentiment of photographer Galen Rowell
    when he says, "An artist would never try to solve problems by killing
    people."
    
    Dave

    re .254, I like that quote, too, and, in addition, I doubt the world
    would any worse off with musicians running it.
    
    Besides, I think artists (whether musicians, writers, actors, or
    whatever) have just as much right to state their opinions as anyone
    else does.
    
    Lorna
    

>    re .254, I like that quote, too, and, in addition, I doubt the world
>    would any worse off with musicians running it.
    
    FWIW, I think it would be CONSIDERABLY worse.
    
    The world isn't simple, and yet the "messages" that musicians write
    are "simple".
    
    I liken most of these artists "message" to Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No"
    campaign, but most of my music friends don't because, of course,
    Bono is cool and Nancy Reagan isn't.
    
    I find the thought of people like Bono, Neil Young, and (god forbid)
    Sinnead O'Connor running the world to be a nightmare.
    
    	db

    
    I personally wouldn't like to see most musicians running things either.
    Lennon's "Imagine"ary world scares me.  The guilt half these stars
    throw at you is funny - did they ever care when they were struggling or
    did they care only after they became bazillionaires?  We got enough
    hypocrites in politics already.
    
    Ozzy Osborune had a (sort of) apropos quote in the latest issue (#666)
    of Rolling Stone:

  "You know what pisses me off?  These people who get up at the Grammy's and
   say 'Save The Earth.'"  We're all making records which are made from 
   by-products of oil - what the f*** have we got to say about recycling or
   any of that s***?  Michael Jackson sold 50 million *plastic* records, you
   know?  Yet they all go '*You've* gotta change the world."  If you wanna
   run for office, f***ing follow the rest of them.  If you want to be a
   rock-n-roller, just say 'Hi, I'm glad you bought my record, thanks very
   much, I'll see ya."

    
    I don't think records pollute the environment. It is not something
    you buy and throw away. It is not like bottled water. You buy a
    record, you keep it forever, is that polluting ?
    
    You don't see records in garbage bins, you see them in flea markets.
    
    Did I miss the point alltogether ?
    
    Lale

    re .257, well, if you want to listen to people who used to torture
    small animals on stage..... 
    
    Besides, when people like Bono, John Lennon, Neil Young, Bruce
    Springsteen, Tom Petty or Bob Dylan give their views on how the world
    should be run, I don't think that means that *they* want to actually be
    the ones running the world.  I think that they are simply using their
    visibility to try to influence the public to vote for
    politicians who would best reflect their views, and I have no problem
    with that.
    
    As far as what Ozzie Osborne said about saving the world, sure we're
    all wasting resources but I don't think that means that we can't try to
    do the best we can.  I don't think that just because someone puts out a
    product that uses a natural resource, that that should mean that person
    has no right to say anything about making the world a better place.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    I'm impressed; Ozzy actually had a coherent thought with some sort of
    logical rationale behind it!  Whatever he's doing these days must be
    working...
    
    You know, there's a danger in blindly following the pronouncements of
    any public figure.  Just because they're out there doesn't mean they
    know anything.  There just aren't any really good shortcuts for making
    things better - so my personal motto (borrowed, of course, after
    serious consideration) is: Question Authority - Continuously!  (Which
    kind of explains why I'm not in management...)
    
    But in keeping with this note's title: I just don't get people that
    assign sainthood to entertainers/artists.
    

    
    As far as I'm concerned, there's no more logic to support musicians
    running countries than forklift truck drivers. I can understand the
    perseverance in some countries with intellectuals as leaders (e.g.
    Havel), but musicians ??
    
    Given that politicians as a species tend to delight in the overuse of 
    slogans, the idea of Bono as President/Prime Minister/Premier is enough to 
    send shivers up my spine:
    
    - "This song is not a rebel song. This song is Sunday, Bloody Sunday".
    - "Dublin City is not always a fair city". (???)
    - "We're just a rock & roll band - we're not out to change the world".
     
    Ugh!
        

Geez, one of the most popular presidents of this century was an actor ...
why not a musician?

    ronnie raygun was one of the most popular presidents of
    this century??? 
    
    source please?
    
    willie 'doubting thomas' ewing

My source is stuff that flew into my brain via eyeballs and ears while
he was President.  If this isn't sufficient, I hope you don't lose any
sleep over it.  ;^)

- dc who actually quite disliked the guy

    oh, i can sleep now.  
    
    i didn't like ronnie either.
    but, wait, he wasn't the president, nancy and her
    astrologer were ;->
    
    willie (who can sleep now)

	I just don't get why topics tend to always run down unrelated
	rat holes as this one seems to be doing.

	Lv

    > I don't think records pollute the environment.
    
    Perhaps he meant "noise pollution".

>    Besides, when people like Bono, John Lennon, Neil Young, Bruce
>    Springsteen, Tom Petty or Bob Dylan give their views on how the world
>    should be run, I don't think that means that *they* want to actually be
>    the ones running the world.  
    
    As I explained, I think their "views on how the world should be run"
    are naive and simplistic.
    
    "Just love one another" strikes me as having almost (but not
    quite) the overall cerebral content as "Just say No".
    
    A close friend of mine recently went thru an experience that opened
    my eyes as to the power, abuse and misuse of the media.   A rare
    opportunity to know what actually happened as opposed to what was
    presented by the media.
    
    One outcome of this is that it strengthened my resolve that artists
    using their celebrity to influence political opinion while not
    inherently "wrong" is, however, exceedingly dangerous.
    
    There are too many bozos who readily believe that Bono, Lennon, Young,
    Springsteen, Petty and Dylan have the answers.
    
    	db

    
    This is an interesting discussion but maybe note #369, "Politics and
    the arts" is a better topic for it.
    
    Lale
    

    re .267, it's human nature.  One thing leads to another.
    
    Lorna
    

    I guess I "get" U2. Sorta, maybe, well a little anyway. I understand
    they're appeal. They're very politically correct for today's college
    campus.

    For me, about 9/10ths of their tunes miss the mark and I find their
    preachyness to be a major turn-off,

                    *BUT* (and that's a big but ooh..err)

    when they hit one right they really nail it. For example, my favorite is
    "In the Name of Love". It's a great tune. All the raw edgy energy of
    "Sunday Bloody Sunday". Like Robbie Robertson said about them, when you
    listen to them you say "Man, that's the real thing!"

    But I think much of their appeal stems from something other than music.
    Consider the famous video of them performing in Manhatten for the video
    shoot in which they're eventually shut down by the city because they
    causing such a commotion. The image that stuck was "us against the big
    bad American system" and made instant victims/heros out of them. It was
    fantastic PR and it played well in heavy rotation on MTV.

    That was followed by that Zoo tour, where they succesfully used
    political messages as a rallying point. That strong (and I understate it
    considerably) political theme went a long way towards increasing they're
    concert date appeal as media events. Local news outlets mentioned the
    impending date as it neared and covered it when it happened. More
    astoundingly successful PR. These guys aren't just a little rock and
    roll band cutting albums. They're the product of that big bad corporate
    star maker machinery. All of which makes them seem a bit disingenuous in
    my book.

    So soon after Joshua Tree came out, I bought it. Unfortunately, I still
    haven't been able to get all the way through it. And I know now that I
    never will. I'm not sure that they have very much to offer after
    something like "In the Name of Love". They seem to be to be sort of
    one-dimensional. Maybe not a one trick pony, but not a very big bag of
    tricks either.

    --Ron

    
    
    I'm pretty sure the L.A. cops were the ones that shut down the U2 live
    crew...what the hell they were doing in Manhattan, I'll never know...
    
    

    Oh, LA, huh? Well, whatever. Thanks for the correction.

    --Ron    

    Sorry guys, but that video was shot in San Francisco, CA.
    
    Fredda

    There was also a video shot in the LA area where Bono and the gang are
    performing on a rooftop.  Sort of turned into an impromptu concert.  
    
    This might be what others are referring to.
    
    
    kim

    As long as we're in this note I can tell you who I don't get:

    4 Non Blondes (4 non musicians is whot I say)

    "What's Up". Is this like the worst thing that's ever been recorded? I
    cringed all the way through it so that I could find out who it was so
    that I could really direct my hate in a meaningful way. AND THEN THEY
    DIDN'T SAY! It blows my mind that somebody put up money for the studio
    time. All I can figure is somebody is somebody's nephew or niece.

    If I go to hell this'll be eternally playing through the ceiling
    speakers. So I'm going to be a really good boy from here on.


        strum-strum screech screech strumin-more-strumin screech
        what's goin' on


    Yikes!

    --Ron

    re .277, no, no! Hell is where you have to listen to rap music forever. 
    :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    There are a ton of groups I just don't get...... But there is one
    person, I don't care, when she sings it makes the hair on your arms
    stand up and gives ya chills.....and that is.......
    
    
    	T H E    D I V I N E    B E T T E     M I D L E R   !  !
    
    
    I just love her music... old stuff, new stuff, the couple of country
    songs she does, the big band stuff. The type of concert she puts on is
    extroardinary.  I went to Great Woods this past weekend and was
    overwhelmed by this performer. I have always appreciated her talent in
    the movies she has made, and the several CD's I have, but to see her
    live in person.. there is just no word to explain. The power, and
    emotion with which she sings touches your soul. The tickets were 55
    dollars each, but let me tell you, it was one concert I would have paid
    even more to see it a second time, but it was sold out. This woman does
    not cheat you, when she gives a concert, she gives you a night of
    entertainment.. I live in Mass. she left Great Woods last week, and is
    scheduled for 9 weeks at Radio City Music Hall in New York, I am
    tempted to go out there for a weekend and see her there.  I would go to
    New York just to see that concert again... EXCELLENT! What I liked the
    most was the breaks between songs and the hilarious jokes and stuff she
    would say, she has toned down alot, but puts on a great show just 
    the same.
    
    Just my thoughts.
    

    I agree about 4 Non-Blondes....Every time I here that song on the radio
    I cringe...yet I haven't heard any of their other songs so I can't say
    that I hate this band yet...
    
    :), danielle

    
    Hmm, I have to agree about 4-Non Blondes, I find that particular
    song to be really abrasive to the ear drums.  My wife on the other 
    hand loves the band, she bought their album.  Her and my brother-in
    law claim that the radio tune is really not one of the better tunes
    on the album.  The band sounds okay, it's the vocals I don't like.
    
    But I will add another I don't get it for En Vogue.  My daughter has
    been getting into them lately.  They do a cover of Yesterday that has
    to be one of the worst performances I've ever heard.  I don't get 
    within 50 feet of the stereo when she's playing that tape.
    
    L

    RE: 4 non-blondes
    
    Yup the tune they have over-played on the radio is *not* their best.  I
    heard them when they opened for Aerosmith and thought they were pretty
    good - but yup - those lead vocals on their current "hit" are
    a bit much, hopefully a different cut off the same ablum will be
    released - soon!
    
    Joyce

    I also agree that the 4 non-blondes "What's Up" is not the best
    recording on the CD. I have been wondering about several artist's
    releases recently and how the songs are "chosen" to be played.
    
    Does anyone know how a single is picked for release and air play? The
    most recent releases that spring to mind are; Belly - Feed the Tree is
    great, however there are several other, possibly better songs on the
    CD. Bjork's "Debut" release was "Human Behavior", another good song but
    IMHO not the best on the CD. My last example is 4 non-blondes, there
    are several, again IMHO, better song on their CD.
    
    So who picks the first/next release order......
    
    	an inquiring mind wants to know,
    
    		fred deady
     
    	(to the best of my knowledge NOT almost killed by EC)

    
    	I love En Vogue, although I really don't know exactly why I
    	like them and not other groups that are similar.
    
    	I like the vocals, the music, etc.
    
    							GTI

    
    
    Lorna just pointed out something I don't get (hey, I'm not picking on
    you; your comment just served to remind me) - what do women find
    attractive about the singer for the Black Crowes????  I've seen
    healthier-looking junkies...he could pass for Keith Richards cousin or
    something!
    
    En Vogue - nice visuals, for sure...like the vocals and the whole
    arrangments on the stuff I've heard...I was bummed that all they did at
    the Grammies was dance...
    

    re .285, well, Chris Robinson reminds me of my youth.  :-)  He
    personifies what I wanted for a boyfriend 22 yrs. ago!!  I've always
    had a thing for thin guys with long hair, who dress like hippies, or
    like they should be in a rock band.  I've also seen him interviewed and
    he seems like a fun person.
    
    Lorna
    

    You should have seen me in 1971 then. I almost didn't make it across
    Indiana alive.

    Hows that tune go? "Almost got a haircut" No, that's not it. Hmmmm.


    --Ron

    
    
    >>Hows that tune go? "Almost got a haircut" No, that's not it. Hmmmm.
    
    Ya mean "Almost Cut My Hair" by CSN&Y ????

    re: .287
    
    ** You should have seen me in 1971 then. I almost didn't make it across
    ** Indiana alive.
    
    Paranoid, like looking in your mirror and seeing a police car.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    [Most of] Rush.

    guns n roses
    rap, in general
    jon anchovie (oops, bon jovi)
    michael bolton (as opposed to the original version of the songs
    		    he ripped off)
    kenny g
    billy ray serious
    
    and that's off the top of my head.
    
    blind willis

This morning's Boston Globe reports that there is a rap musician whose name
is (get ready for this!):

	Snoop Doggy Dog

I'm not kidding. This guy really goes by a name that a two-year-old
might give to a stuffed animal. 

And there's more. He was just involved in committing a crime!
Maybe he needs money because his albums are getting mixed in with 
Barney, Raffi, and the Ninja Turtles.

Barry

    re .295, I doubt he's headed for Superstardom.
    
    Don't look for him at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Awards Ceremony 25
    yrs. from now.  :-)
    
    
    Lorna
    

	There has been a song on the radio which has really annoyed
	me..this morning I found out who it is...

	4 NON-BLONDES!!!

	The most stupid, annoying, the-mother-of-all-boring-cliches
	guitar riff is being played in this totally ridiculous song!!

	And the worst of all: it gets on the brain and sits there!!!!

	Boy that helped.

	Poul

    Could this be "What's Up" from the 4 non-blonds?
    
    If so, can you imagine what it must be like to have to listen
    to this song for about 6 months, because it was on the number 1 spot
    over here for 13 weeks.
    
    It really drove me crazy, lucily it is over now...
    
    Mark

    
    Yeah, I think it is...they're singing something like da-da-what's going
    on-hey-hey-da-da...
    
    6 months....uhhh...

    Right, uhhhhh
    
    Phhhhhhhhiieeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww
    Luckily it's over here...
    
    Mark

    
    Every once in a while you see a band fall into the love 'em or hate 'em
    category.  There sure doesn't seem to be any middle ground with 4 Non
    Blondes.

    That's a band only a mother could love, and I'm not too sure about that
    either. Crap. No kidding, I was in better bands -- better playing,
    singing, even songwriting -- when I was fifteen years old. And we were,
    by most standards, pretty bad. When I heard that tune I just had to know
    who did it, which took months. But only then could I properly focus my
    hate. Yeah, I not only don't get 4 Nonblondes, I loath them for that
    awful song. But I loath the record exec that put up the money to unleash
    it on an unsuspecting public even more.

    Yeesh. I'm starting to hear that vocal in my head now. I gotta get outta
    here and stick my head in a microwave oven or sumthin.

    [believe it or not category] If I heard correctly, Snoop Doggy Dog's
    latest release stands a good chance of entering the charts at #1, 
    which has never been done before [?].

    
    Re: Snoop Doggy Dog . . .
    
    	Hey, don't knock the guy just 'cause he has a silly name!  If
    everyone did that, not only would I not have anything to listen to, but
    whatever would have happened to Derek and the Dominoes?  The Who?  The
    Beatles?  Herman's Hermits?  C'mon!
    
    	Besides, the album's pretty smooth - his laid-back vocal style suits
    the music.  Of course, you have to be at least *tolerant* of rap :-)
    
    					two more cents . . .
    
    						Jim

    
    I just don't get ANYTHING by Herman's Hermits...
    

    Was it somewhere in here that we were talking about not following in
    parent's footsteps in pre-judging music?
    
    I'm sure that "The Beatles" seemed far more silly to a generation
    that grew with "nice" names like "The Glenn Miller Orchestra" than
    "Snoop Doggy Dog" seems to a generation that grew up with names
    like "The Beatles", "The Who", "Yes", "The Talking Heads", etc.
    
    	db

    
     Videos.
    
     I don't get videos.
    
     Rock, country, rap, whatever.
    
    
     Music is only visual in your head as you're listening to it.
    
    Paul W.

    there is music on those videos ;-)
    
    i thought it was background video for the music
    I was playing.
    
    i think the van halen video "right now" is interesting
    because there are so may images, puns, 'truisms', etc.
    that michael jackson video that had the faces changing 
    into other faces was neat.
    
    maybe some people have no imagination so they have to be offered
    an 'interpretation' of the song.
    
    blind willis
    

    what is with 'young people' (anyone under 30) listening
    to music so loud.  i can turn a television on at my parents
    and tell if my parents or my brother were the last to watch
    by the volume.  Low volume, older people.  High volume, kids.
    High volume music leads 'kids' to shout to be heard.  SHouting
    makes the music harder to hear so turn it up....., etc. etc. etc.
    
    older blind willis

    I don't know how old you are, but I'm 44 and I enjoy videos.  I most
    enjoy the videos where the lead singers are extremely sexy looking such
    as Bruce Springsteen, Bono, Sting or Simon LeBon.  (or, needless to
    say, Neil Young)
    
    Also, as far as loud music goes, I find that if I like the music then I
    like playing it loud, but if I hate the music then I can't stand
    hearing it loud.  I can enjoy listening to "Weld" at top volume, but
    when my roommate was playing The Breeders at top volume I was ready to
    go crazy.
    
    For that matter, the same with videos.  If I like the music, I enjoy
    seeing the video.  Usually, if I hate the music then I'll hate the
    video (such as Janet Jackson - her videos make my stomach churn).
    
    Lorna
    

    I got bored with videos (back when I still had cable).  I found them
    irritating to watch and usually pretty stupid.  I guess I'm in the
    minority since I would rather have just straight footage of the acts
    performing.  All this arty BS that gets stuffed in is ridiculous.  If I
    want to see T&A in slo-mo, I'll stop down at the adult bookstore and
    pick up some gooduns...
    
    I thought the rock ones were bad, then I saw some country
    vids...omigosh...
    
    							Brian

    i'm 42.
    i don't enjoy listening to some of the music that
    goes along with a lot of videos.
    if it is someone (or a song) i like, i like videos.
     
    correct me, but the first videos were
    on shows like 'american bandstand'.  that way the band
    didn't have to show up and lip synch a song.  
    
    i often watch videos with THEIR sound off.  lorna, it sounds like
    if the singer is sexy looking, you could watch with the sound off
    too :-) 
    
    i don't mind loud music but don't think that a radio or stereo should
    always be at ear splitting level.  yeah, i crank it up when i play
    jimi hendrix (especially 'all along the watchtower') but some people
    turn the volume to 10 and break off the knob.
    
    old man willis                  
    

    RE: watching with the sound off

    Tell me, if the song's good but the video's bad do you leave the sound
    on and put a bag over the set?

    --Ron

    
     Well I made the hate videos statement. I'm 36, started being
    interested in music when the Beatles showed up on Ed Sullivan,
    and yeah I still like loud music sometimes. It's just that it
    seems nowadays making a video is automatic. It shouldn't be.
    
     I read in a recent Rolling Stone article about Pearl Jam, who
    I like, and how at least one of the members doesn't like videos
    because he doesn't want their songs remembered that way in 10
    years. 
    
     Yeah, there is occasional creativity in videos, but it's about
    1 in 10,000 at best.
    
     I had MTV removed from my house by the cable company when I got
    up one morning and found my 8 year old watching a video by a 
    band whos name I forget. The singer was flying a sexual blowup
    doll like a kite while singing a bland rock song. I think the
    song was "I hate everything about you" or something like that.
    I'm not a prude, but I don't need to explain something like that
    before my 1st coffee of the day:-)
    
    
     PAW

    Re::PAW..
    That bands name is"Ugly_Kid_Joe".
    Hope it's not on yer Kids Christ_Mas List.  :_)
    
       Crazy_If_You_Gotta_Play_It_Loud_To_Feel_it,Do_it_Al
    

>    Videos take the imagination out of the equation.  Before videos, people
>    were more likely to personalize the music and lyrics that they heard;
    .
    .
    .
>       your imagination.  When the movie comes out, especially if you see the
>    movie before you read the book, then what you see is the way it's
>    supposed to be from there on.
 
    	I guess I agree and disagree here - Bob, you should read Harlan
    Ellison's great essay on t.v. titled "How the Dinosaurs Died and Why
    You Don't Look So Great Yourself."
    
    	While it's true that when you see a video, it's kind of all right
    there for you ( ie the artist basically shows you *exactly* what he or
    she was trying to say with the song via visual images ), I think a good
    video will make you think about what you're *seeing* as well as
    *hearing* - some of Peter Gabriel's and the Indigo Girl's come to mind. 
    As much as I like his music, I have to admit the I loathe Billy Joel's
    videos - they don't make you think at all.
    
    	Now, about movies from books, I agree with what you said, which is
    why I'm such an avid reader, but I do get a big kick out of going to
    see a movie of a book I've already read to see how closely the images
    on the screen match what I had imagined when I read it.  Many people
    said, "They shouldn't make a movie out of _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
    Nest_ because it's such a great book!"  But, I still never see a movie
    until I've read the book . . . .
    
    
    					2 cents - Jim
    

re: .317

Like Brian, I prefer videos that show the musicians actually playing.
Of course that's probably 'cause I'm a musician myself.

Nonetheless, I do recall one occasion where I saw a video for a song
that I didn't care much for, and the video actually gave me some insight
into what the author was trying to say and I liked the song better after
that.  Can't say that this is the normal case, though.

-Hal

    
    We watch the shows - we watch the stars
    On videos for hours and hours
    We hardly need to use our ears
    How music changed through the years
    
    Radio, what's new?
    Radio, someone still loves you.

    re .320 
    
    	Well, I didn't mean to bash all his videos :-) - The ones that came
    to mind as being particularly bad are 'Uptown Girl' and 'Keeping the
    Faith' although, honestly, I didn't care much for 'We didn't Start the
    Fire' ( the video or the song ).
    
    	And, of course, most videos of just the band playing and having a
    good time are usually pretty good . . .
    
    					2 more cents :-)   - Jim

    Oh well, here I was just saying how I thought vids were stupid, but
    "Uptown Girl" is really cool.  Was more fun than the song by itself 
    8^)
    
    Actually, one non-performance vid that I liked is probably
    Springsteen's "I'm On Fire" where the story line seemed to fit with the
    song pretty well.
    
    I think that the medium still hasn't come up with anything interesting,
    the arty shots look more like Levi's ads than Fellini, and the staged
    "performances" are rehashes of the Beatles flicks.  I think that's
    because the purpose of the vids is to be a commercial for the album,
    rather than something to be enjoyed on its own merits, which is what
    the album is.
    
    The changes in MTV (game shows, "unplugged", news ???, cartoons ?????)
    just reinforces my thoughts that the vids just aren't making it...it's
    not like the local FM stations have to start running radio sitcom shows
    because playing Madonna singles aint keeping the ratings up high
    enough.
    			
    							Brian

    Not that it was anything that special, but Steve Winwood's "Roll With
    It" was kinda cool. It showed him performing in a smokey crowded bar,
    people dancing, having fun. Real 60s style night life. Reminds me of the
    kind of place where Stax recording artists played back in those days.
    Those clubs were infamous. If my mom and I drove by a club and I pointed
    out that really good bands played there and she told me "Nooooooo,
    that's a seedy kind of place", then I'd dream about the day that I'd be
    old enough to be in a band that played that kind of place. Cool cats and
    fast womem. A 12 year old's dream.

    I always thought the worst vidoes were by bands like Great White and
    Warrent. Gawd-awful junk.

    
    	The live ones always grab my attention.  I gotta believe that
    	live performances would be alot less $$$'s to produce too.
    
    	I saw Snow Bound (is that the title, Edd?) by Fagen the other
    	nite.  Real heads driving weird cars in a strange, futuristic
    	city.  Seems that the Fagen head controls the city until the
    	end where he gets knocked off, king-of-the-hill style.
    
    	That was a very interesting video!!  Anyone else see it?
    
    	Brian, your deduction from MTV's other offerings sounds
    	right on to me.  Makes sense.
    
    	Tom
    

Videos are mainly for selling the musician as a celebrity.  Or sex object.

	Hi, I'm your video DJ
	I always sound like I'm wigged out on Quaaludes
	I wear a satin baseball jacket everywhere I go
	My job is to help destroy
	what's left of your imagination
	by feeding you endless doses of sugar-coated mindless garbage

	So don't create
	be sedate
	be a vegetable at home and thwack on that dial
	If we have our way even you will believe
	this is the future of Rock 'n' Roll!

				"MTV Get Off the Air"
				The Dead Kennedys

    
    
       I started hating videos when I saw a video for the 
    Cowboy Junkies song "Misguided Angel". The song is a woman
    justifying her lowlife boyfriend to her family. The video
    appears to be a sort of clone of the boxing movie with Jon
    Voight? and Ricky Schroeder?  Musta been some producers idea
    for a good video. 
    
     The high spped imagery sometimes drives me nuts too. The 
    movie Aladdin was like that. They packed a great 2 hour movie
    into 1.5 hours.
    
      Maybe i'm turning into Dana Carveys grumpy old man: "In my
    day when we played a record, we had to stare at the album cover,
    AND WE LIKED IT!"
    
    
     Paul W.

re: .326
    
>      Maybe i'm turning into Dana Carveys grumpy old man: "In my
>    day when we played a record, we had to stare at the album cover,
>    AND WE LIKED IT!"
    
Of course since the demise of LPs, the album cover isn't big enough
to stare at anymore. :-)

-Hal

    
    OK, know what I don't get?  The band The Cure.  What's with these guys? 
    Their music is like the Hollywood strings on Valium.  I just picked
    up the Hendrix tribute album (which I generally like) and the first cut
    is an alleged cover of Purple Haze by The Cure.  Quite frankly, I can't
    recognize the song at all, I believe in interpreting someone else's
    song, but re-writing it is unacceptable. Actually, I wouldn't even mind
    them re-writing it if it didn't put me to sleep within the first 8
    bars.
    
    I also have their CD "Disintergration", and every now and then I pull
    it out and give it a listen just in case my musical sensibilities now "get
    it".   Seriously, does anybody get this stuff, or is it just
    self-indulgent music for people who are sooooo depresssed?  Really, if
    anyone out there likes these guys, please tell me why.  Otherwise,
    I'm just going to take a break and listen to Lawrence Welk's cover of 
    Little Wing.   "And a one, and a two, and a hit it a Myron".
    
    Al
    

    The_Cure Helps me Wind_Down after A Day.
    
    
      Crazy_In_More_Ways_Than_1_Al
    

    
    	I also like the Cure - Seventeen Seconds and Faith - I've got to be
    in the mood for them though - relaxed and comfy - not music to bounce
    around to generally - with a few exceptions -> In Between Days -
    regarding Disintegration - you've got to have some sort of liking for
    depression and self pity to like it - as well as Sisters Of
    Mercy,Mission ect. - a kind of darkside me thinks - it can be
    depressing but different music for different moods - Henry Rollins at
    the beginning of the night and nice mellow reggae at the end.
    
    p.s. I love Stings cover of Little Wing on Nothing But The Sun - I'd
    call it the "studio" version - good musicians and a brilliant sound off
    this cd.
    
    
    				Stuart 
    
    
    			

    Saw 4 Non Blondes on Letterman last night and all I can say is that to
    call them "bad" is an insult to all things bad. "Pathetic" begins to
    approach a reasonable description. As I watched I sat and wondered
    "could they be any worse?" Musically I seriously don't think so. I found
    myself feeling genuinely sorry for them.

    Actually I think the drummer has potential.

    rjb

    Re: .332
    
    What is it about these guys that creates such contempt?  For a band
    getting so much exposure, everybody I hear mention them has nothing
    good to say about them.  I've heard one song, it was comeptent but
    forgettable rock.  Hardly worth frothing at the mouth over!
    
    							Brian  

    
    
    Can *anyone* rationalize "rap"???????? at all?????? maybe????
    
    not en-rap-tured,
    
    Brian
    

    Gee, I kinda liked 'em (4 non-blondes), that is.  I dunno why "style"
    they were supposed to be, but it didn't seem too offensive.  Never
    seen/heard them before, either.
    
    
    kim 

    [re-edited]
    
    Well, maybe it's just me but the song that I keep hearing is
    unfortunately not so easily forgetable. It's so profoundly bad to my
    ears that it drives me nuts. I'll try to froth less, though.

    --Ron

re            <<< Note 96.334 by CGOOA::PITULEY "Stuff happens..." >>>
                                   -< Huh? >-
>    Can *anyone* rationalize "rap"???????? at all?????? maybe????
    
The natural regression of pop music to percussion ... pure rhythm.  Insane
in the membrane.

    RE: 96.334
    
    >> Can anyone rationalize "rap"????????
    
    
    Sure! It sells...
    
    
    
    
    It sells BIG!  It doesn't have to make sense as long as it makes money!
    
    	
    	If you don't like it...   change the channel is the first
    suggestion I would guess. It's Seattle grunge type rock that I have a 
    difficult time with...   but then, *I* have the power to also change
    the radio preset! Isn't technology great!!??
    
    		Rock on (set/mode=no_grunge),
    			
    						Fred

    re .339
    
    Well put. I agree. The punk/rap analogy is a good one.
    
    -Tom

    >The times and issues are different, but the **basic** underlying
    >message isn't much different than what rock in general in the 50's
    
    Hmmm...
    
    In the 50s it was:
    
    "Please hear my plea, wear my ring, my darling..."
    
    In the 90s it is:
    
    "Yo, ho, my Uzi aint choosy, when bullets fly some homies gonna die..."
    
    							Brian

    Re: .342
    
    Yup, and I just couldn't take Sidney Poitier too seriously as a
    hoodlum...  8^)  8^)
    
    Howzabout the scene where they smash the teacher's irreplaceable jazz
    record collection?  I could see that one comin' a mile away.
    
    							Biff

	Now this one is getting on my nerves - 'Drop Dead Beautiful' by
	some pseudo group - must be the mainstream of mainstream pop
	music. I hate it!

	Poul

    I don't get the appeal for Boston, specifically Brad Delp's soprano.
    
    Mark.

    >I don't get the appeal for Boston, specifically Brad Delp's soprano.

    Alto... for what it's worth (same range as Jon Anderson, for instance).
    
    Brian

re: .346

>    I don't get the appeal for Boston, specifically Brad Delp's soprano.
    
I don't understand the appeal of that horrible guitar tone, with all
of the expression compressed out of it.

-Hal

    The appeal for Boston, as I see it, is about the same as other bands of
    that ilk (Styx, Journey, Loverboy, Winger, etc.).  It has a lot of
    elements of other styles (metal, prog-rock) with a glossy pop sheen.  A
    band based on the least common denominator of a diverse listener base.  
    
    The fact that so many arena rock bands that followed in their wake were
    successful shows that *someone* likes the style.
    
    							Brian

re: .349

>    The fact that so many arena rock bands that followed in their wake were
>    successful shows that *someone* likes the style.
    
Yeah, my S.O.'s 15-year-old daughter *loves* them.  She also knows I hate 
them, so she makes sure she turns up the radio anytime they come on just
to annoy me. :-)

-Hal

    
    	Styx is 10x the band that Boston is.
    
    	James Young is quite under-rated, and never gets the exposure
    	he deserves on any album they put out.  He only gets to do 1
    	song per album, so it seems.
    
    							GTI

    Styx WAS 10x the band that Boston is/was. 
    
    That is, BEFORE they went the bubble gum teenager route.
    
    Their earlier albums rocked pretty good, much like early REO Speedwagon
    albums, but, like REO, they went for the bucks in the teen sappy
    syrupy garbage scene, and went straight to h_ll.
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	I'll agree somewhat.
    
    	But if JY had more influence on their material I think they'd
    	still be rockin' with the best of 'em.
    
    	"Miss America" is a prime example.  And he wrote "Homewrecker"
    	for their newest album, "Edge of the Century".
    
    							GTI
    

I was fortunate enough to see Styx on the Cystal Ball tour.
I would say that was right before they went down the bubblegum
tubes...

I remember a band named Moxie opened up.  I'm sure only Brian Rost
would have heard of them, but they were pretty good...

Tim

    
    I _really_ don't get what all this hubbub about Boston.  The new songs
    sound just like everything else they've ever done.  Completely generic,
    completely lifeless, and completely boring.   
    
    Good musicians?  Yea, maybe... but beyond that.  Blech.
    
    Later...
    Steve
    

    
        Four words:
    	
    			Hootie and the Blowfish.
             
    	chUck

Eric Clapton for the last 15 years.  He started this whole "Unplugged"
nonsense, which means "We play accoustic guitars instead of electric."

Anyone who hears three minutes of someone like Doc Watson, Tony Rice,
or Norman Blake (all flatpick, Bluegrass guitarists), would realize
that EC should stick to interpreting old Robert Johnson chops.  He does
it well.  

Aye to all who said rap.  Every aspiring rap "artist" should be forced
to memorize old Woody Guthrie songs, which not only rhymed, but had a
melody, and told a story.

...way up yonder on a mountain road,
a hot motor and a heavy load,

was goin' pretty fast,
wasn't even stoppin'

just bouncin' up and down,
like pop corn poppin'

Had a breakdown, some kind of a nervous bust-down

>> Eric Clapton for the last 15 years.  He started this whole "Unplugged"
>> nonsense, which means "We play accoustic guitars instead of electric."
    
   I think you'll find that Jules Shear started "Unplugged".....
    
    Graham

> I think you'll find that Jules Shear started "Unplugged".....
    

Hate to sound like a dummy, but who's Jules Shear?

I guess what I was saying is that ERIC CLAPTON - UNPLUGGED is all
you heard on the radio for about a year, '92/'93.

Then every Bozo with a dusty old Martin pulled it out and did an
"Unplugged" album. It got old.  Actually it's not dead yet. Trendy, trendy.

-S

    
    I'm not sure _who_ Jules Shear is, except that he's the guy who started
    Unplugged ! I came to know of him because my favourite guitarist -
    Marty Willson-Piper, of The Church - played guitar on a Jules Shear
    Album called 'the Third Party'. Jules is basically a singer/songwriter
    of acoustic guitar stuff (or at least what I've heard is).
    
    As far as I know, he invented 'Unplugged' in it's original form, as an
    environment where diferent artists would come together and perform
    acoustically with little or no rehearsal, playing any songs that they
    all knew, and jamming a bit with those they didn't. He presented
    'Unplugged' for a while - one of his early guests were The Church. 
    
    This was eventually hijacked by the music industry and the policy makers
    at MTV and became the monstrosity it now is, nothing spontanous, very little
    acoustic stuff - IMHO, of course %^)
    
    Graham

>    environment where diferent artists would come together and perform
>    acoustically with little or no rehearsal, playing any songs that they
>    all knew, and jamming a bit with those they didn't. He presented
>   'Unplugged' for a while - one of his early guests were The Church. 

That sounds like the first half hour or so of a guitar pull.  After
everyone is warmed up, playing and singing songs they all know, 
the guitars go down, they start discussing what
they've been working on, and eventually someone pulls his guitar back out and
starts playing and singing his latest/best new piece.  

Some of the more famous tunes that were first heard at guitar pulls were
"Me and Bobby McGhee"/Kristoferson(SP?)and "Mr. Bojangles"/JJ Walker.

All UNPLUGGED - of course.

-S

Bruce Springsteen.  I was perusing the conference and saw that "Da Boss'"
topic had almost 400 entries.  He's a cult - like those I "heart my 
honor roll student at Fartface High" in Elephant Butte New Mexico.

Springsteen doesn't LOOK like the kid whose shorts used to get pulled down in
high school gym class, he IS the kid.  Women swoon over this dork, people
bought that C-R-A-P about 10 years ago by the millions - Born in the USA. 
He was singing about Viet Cong, and who knows what all else?
That little creep would have cried himself to sleep in basic training
every night, just like all the other little twerps who told anyone who
would listen that they really didn't belong there for whatever reason.

I really just don't get it.

And Jimmy Buffet, who is okay, I can picture myself having a beer with
the guy, but I just don't get this Parrothead cult,either.

    I don't remember him singing about VietNam.
    
    I do remember him singing about VietNam vets, though - there's a big
    difference.

Maybe he was singing about veterens, I don't know.  I just remember
that lyric he SCREAMS - something about "First thing I get when I hit the
ground [about landing in Viet Nam] and some nonsense about "gonna kill
the yellow man."  It was that whole flag-waving angle that made me ill. 

Springsteen is the exact age of someone who might have served a tour of
duty.  But he didn't, which is perfectly fine.  But why not just leave it out?  

Springsteen wasn't the only one pulling the super Patriot thing at the time -
Lee Iacocca, the country's biggest welfare recipient was waving the colors back
then.

-S 

    
    	Actually, it could have been the story of the vets hitting the
    	ground as they came back to this country after the war.
    
    	I can't remember any more than the 1st verse right now, prob-
    	ably because I don't really like that album and never cared to
    	listen to the song when it came on the radio.
    

    .364
    
    You made the same mistake Reagan did. "Born in the USA" isn't very
    patriotic. It's not flag-waving at all.
    
    The lyric in question is "First kick I took was when I hit the
    ground..." 
    
    Not about being in Vietnam - about being born (and hitting the ground)
    in a dying mill town in Jersey. He does know about that.
    
    The other lyric, "send me off to a foreign land/ going to kill the
    yellow man" is about being sent off to a place he'd never heard of to
    kill someone for a reason he didn't understand. Yes, he was drafted,
    and yes, he showed up to the draft board. Springsteen didn't serve in
    Vietnam because he failed the physical for the army.

    
    	Born in the USA was the opening tune for that tour.  The shear
    	power of that song was incredible - nothing like the album
    	version.  I'll never forget the look on my then SO's face
    	because she was determined to hate Bruce, like many other
    	people.  She was totally floored.
    
    	Tom
    

.366 - See, I said I just didn't get it.  Seriously, I think there was
a theme to that album, and I think it was simplified patriotism.  I have to
take the hit for being ignorant of the facts.  It's just that
the music sounded like nothing but screaming, and I couldn't stand it.  

As for being drafted, I just remember the scams kids were pulling
to flunk that physical.  Christ, Abby Hoffman should have just taken notes
there for the section on beating the draft in "Steal this Book." 

I do apologize for venting over lyrics I didn't really understand.

-S

re: .366

>    You made the same mistake Reagan did. "Born in the USA" isn't very
>    patriotic. It's not flag-waving at all.
>    
>    The lyric in question is "First kick I took was when I hit the
>    ground..." 
>    
>    Not about being in Vietnam - about being born (and hitting the ground)
>    in a dying mill town in Jersey. He does know about that.
>    
>    The other lyric, "send me off to a foreign land/ going to kill the
>    yellow man" is about being sent off to a place he'd never heard of to
>    kill someone for a reason he didn't understand. Yes, he was drafted,
>    and yes, he showed up to the draft board. Springsteen didn't serve in
>    Vietnam because he failed the physical for the army.


Yeah, that reminds me of a major misunderstanding at my house.  My father
wouldn't allow us to play "Back In The USSR", 'cause it was unpatriotic. 
Satire and parody sometimes zing right over people's heads. :-)

-Hal

    
    	People don't care to listen to words, or take lyrics in context,
    	it seems.  They hear something they don't like and fly off the
    	handle.
    
    	Michael Jackson's "They Don't Really Care About Us" is a good
    	example.  He makes a reference to "Kike" and people are trying
    	to get the song banned.  What's the song about?  Inter-racial
    	problems.
    

    >Yeah, that reminds me of a major misunderstanding at my house.  My
    >father wouldn't allow us to play "Back In The USSR", 'cause it was
    >unpatriotic. Satire and parody sometimes zing right over people's
    >heads. :-)
    
    I don't think anyone blew it more than Reagan. He gave a speech (during
    the flag-waving mid-eighties) about this great country of ours where he
    referred to the "uplifting lyrics of Bruce Springsteen's 'Born in the
    USA.'" Springsteen had a fit over that one. I don't think Reagan ever
    realized what he did. Neither did half the country, though. First time
    you listen to that song, without studying the words, you want to go out
    & grab a beer & a flag and yell "Woooo!" :)
    
    I think that's part of what makes it so effective.

    
    Didn't Reagan also want to use John Cougar Mellencamp's "Pink Houses"
    until it's real meaning was explained to him ?
    
    Graham$Born_in_the_UK
    

I started the rathole, maybe I can end it.  I never really sat down
and listened to "Born In the USA," partly because I never really
cared for Springsteen.  I bought the album "Nebraska" because it was
Bruce and a Telecaster guitar, and I knew Springsteen was influenced
by Bob Dylan, and that Bob Dylan worshipped Woody Guthrie.  

OPINION: Woody Guthrie is one of the greatest songwriters/artists of the
English language, and in American history.  Bar none.  If Woody had
not been openly and very vocally a communist, "This Land" would
be the national anthem today.  He was hired by the government to boost morale on
the Grand Coulee(SP?) Dam Project, where he wrote nearly 30 songs in a month. 
Arlo says 30 songs in a month was nothing his father didn't do all his life.
Woody was above all, a patriot. And because he was as vocal about his patriotism
as he was about his ideals, in the early 50s, Woody was a real problem for
McCarthy, et. al. in the "House Un-American Activities" nonsense - A national
discrace, I hope we never forget. They essentially left Woody alone.

This has become a divot in a rathole, so enough.

The other reason I never really listened to "USA" is because, I distinctly
remember working in LKG, where a young hotshot software engineer, fresh
out of BU was also working.  He was the roommate to a friend of mine.  He
was so entrenched in the flag-waving of 1986.  His first new car was a
Chrysler, something-or-other, financed through Chrysler Credit.  His
heroes were Lee Iacocca(SP?), who as the country's "industrious" welfare
recipient, made me ill, and Bruce Springsteen.  This kid used his lunch break to
wait in line for "USA" the day it came out. So the album got off on the wrong
foot with me, as this kid was already a hard-core Republican at the age of 22. 
I'll admit I judged the kid as a cocky nitwit who'd never fallen on hard times
and seemed to have no street smarts at all.  So what did he know? 
And since this kid loved the album so much, and he had a brain in his head, I
foolishly assumed that Springsteen had taken a fork in the political road and I
wanted 'nuttin to do with it.  So that kid was the first, and only person
I've ever known to get shitcanned by DEC for stealing, he was padding the hell
out of - actually making up bogus - expense accounts.  DEC might have paid 
for his copy of "USA."

It wasn't until yesterday, 9 years later that I realized I had it all wrong.
But I still hate the song. And I have to get some work done. 


Peace to all.

-Steve 

Lee Iacocca, welfare?

Please explain....

Sorry, I pounded that explanation out fast and didn't edit myself for clarity.

It was actually Chrysler Motors that the government bailed out after
Iacocca, as CEO or CFO, convinced the feds that he could turn the quickly
dying company around.  I remember reading in the paper and seeing on the
news that Iacocca set a precedent by getting federal funds to "assist" 
a company the likes of "One of the Big Three."  He had to beg, too. The gov
wanted to know what the hell happened to Chrysler and how they ever got into
such a mess.  After the fact, Ex-CFOs from other, much smaller companies were
pissed because the gov turned them away when they needed money to regroup.  

I hope this doesn't start another rathole over whether or not Chrysler
paid the government back, etc, etc ad nauseam.  It's history.  

    I guess I can't let the rat rest in peace without a couple
    of clarifications...
    
    I don't think Bruce plays a Tele on "Nebraska" (all acoustic 
    guitar plus a bit of overdubbed mandolin).  Maybe there's an
    electric guitar on a couple of cuts, but I can't remember any.
    
    Also, it's not "... going to kill the yellow man...", it's "sent 
    me off to a foreign land/to go and kill the yellow man."   
    
    The narrator/subject of the song neither supports nor denounces the 
    war.  He's done what was asked of him by his country, but is now out of
    work, plagued by memories of the war, and haunted by the memory of his
    brother (who was killed in the war).  He wants to know what happened
    to his share of the American dream.  
    
    Jim

re: .375

Just as an FYI. That's umm, incorrect.

What Iaccoca got from the govt was a guarantee to underwrite 
loans from private sources. No govt money was ever used. The govt 
would have been responsible for repayment if Chrysler had gone 
belly up, which they didn't. 

In fact, the loan was paid off years before it was due.

daryll

> ... from the govt was a guarantee to underwrite loans from private sources.

Cozy arrangement, I think, and risky for the gov.  Thanks to Mitsubishi,
Lee made the note(s) on that money.

.376 - He plays a Tele on a couple of songs, I think.  I found that
album boring and I haven't played it in years.

Whew! I got myself in deep this time.

-S

    
     Alanis Morrisette, I just don't get what the big ado is about her.
    My wife & daughter think she's great, but I personally don't like
    her at all.  She almost has a yodel in the way she sings, I find her
    rather annoying to listen to.    
    
      Lv