Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I felt the same way you do about a stranger taking care of my son.  I
    have had 2 babysitters before a friend of ours could watch my child.  I
    would not trust anyone else.  
    
    As far as development, my son is 2 1/2  he seems advanced for his age. 
    I have seen many kids his age and they don't talk as clear and do not
    have the ability to carry on lenghtly confersations.  He will tell
    about things and if there are two people talking, he will raise and
    lower his voice so that you know the differences.  If you say he said
    something and he knows he didn't-- he'll correct you.
    
    He has been with this sitter in her home with 4 other children since he
    was about 5 months old.  He plays with twin boys that are 5, a little
    girl who is also 5, and another boy 2 months younger than my son.
    
    Sorry for the length... to answer your question, I tend to side with
    your husband.  A day care provider with children I think is a great
    asset to the childs learning and growth.  I would not prefer my child
    to be in a daycare center.  What about something like a
    preschool/daycare atmosphere where they learn and interact.
    
    I hope this helps.  The key is you have to trust the person you are
    leaving your child with!
    
    

    I would vote for a part time daycare.  Say two mornings a week.  I was
    extremely nervous about leaving AJ with a virtual unknown, but what I
    discovered to my amazement, is that he started out a very shy, clingy
    (aproximately I can't remember exactly now) two year old who positively
    blossomed!  He became more outgoing, much more talkative and became
    much happier, and I thought he was happy to start with.
    
    Playgroup to me seems to indicate something where you, the parent, go
    and participate, or at best never leave them alone with another adult. 
    In my opinion the child may not become as independant as long as mom or
    dad is there.
    
    I'm not putting down playgroups as a whole, they seem just great for
    infants and nonwalkers, but sooner or later the child needs to learn
    some autonomy.
    
    Lyn

    It seems to me that a playgroup once a week isn't going to be enough
    time for him to really socialize with other children.  I belong to a
    playgroup with my 8 month old daughter, which is great for both of us,
    but not enough.  Our sitter also takes her to visit other houses where
    there are children, and I am planning for them to start going to the
    YMCA at least once a week. (I work full time and playgroup is on SAT.)
    
    I think I understand how you feel about day care, but there are some
    significant benefits to the right form of day care.  A few hours a day
    or a few hours several days a week might really help your son. A lot of
    moms that I have talked to say that once their child is old enough to
    socialize with other children they blossom in the new environment.
    
    Good luck
    Mary
    

    To the basenoter - you didn't mention how old your child is did you? 
    How old is he?
    
    I have to put in a good word for daycare here.  Do you realized that
    most good daycare centers are run by people with a background in child
    development?  In my daycare center, at least one, and more often both
    teachers are degreed in Elementary Education or Child Development. 
    That cannot be said of most homecare providers.  I don't mention this
    to disparage homecare providers, I used one very good, loving, warm
    individual for the first 3 years or so of my children's lives. 
    
    At the appropriate age, most children thrive in a good daycare
    situation.  Why?  Because they are placed in age-appropriate settings,
    with the right toys etc. to stimulate their age group.  They are with
    teachers geared to their age group, as well as playmates their own age. 
    They structure the day around, for instance, what a toddler likes to
    do, what a toddler is CAPABLE of doing.  In my son Josh's class,
    toddlers aged 18 months to 3 years, some of the toys include a set of
    steps, with a just-the-right-height handrail, which they LOVE going up
    and down.  Why? because the school knows that at this age motor skills
    are in the process of great development, this is one of the things that
    intrigues toddlers, and they, the teachers, provide them the
    opportunity to do it.
    
    Jacob is a four year old.  His teachers are teaching phonics, letters,
    numbers counting.  They dance to music, play with shaving cream, dress
    up, make things, and just do generally four year old things.  His
    teachers are geared to providing activities appropriate for that age
    and development.
    
    Perhaps you should consider it part-time, a couple of days a week. 
    While I was quite happy with my homecare provider when the kids were
    babies, they have grown enormously since being in this daycare.
    

    I am sure that I am somewhat in the minority here, but I'm going to
    plunge ahead anyhow. Remember that just about all the moms who reply
    herre, and a significant portion of the dads have children in daycare,
    so the opinions you get probably do not represent a good sampling of
    all couples with children.
    
    Those of you reading here a bit, know we have 3 children and 1 more due
    in 6.5 weeks. We have never put our children in daycare. But, then
    again we've never put them in *any* care situation other than my wife
    staying home with them. Now, I realize this is not feasible for the
    basenoter, but we felt very strongly that we did not want our children
    taken care of by other than family. We are involved ina  church where
    the majority of moms are stay-at-home moms, and so see many children
    reared in a non day care environment. With a few exceptions, they are
    *all* extemely social, well-adjusted, outgoing children. *very* few
    exeptions. As a matter of fact, they tend to be more independent in
    spirit (in my admittedly limited observation) than those in daycare,
    because they feel no constraints of peer pressure, to dress alike, talk
    alike, and play with the same "in" toys. They seem to feel more free to
    interact without fear of social rejection, and when these kids play
    together (yes, our kids play frequently with other kids, they are not
    hermits), their play appears more creative and less bound by what
    others say is the "right" thing to play.
    
    For my own kids, they are qutie friendly and social. Josh, our 5.5 yr.
    old, particularly has blossomed in this last year, and shed much
    shyness. They are all quite bright (not just my opinion! :-)  ), and do
    not appear at all stunted by lack of day care.
    
    So....where am I leading? Day care  is fine, for those who need/want
    it. But I, personally, would support your wanting them to stay out of
    daycare. The value of *peer* socialization, as opposed to socialization
    with a variety of age groups (such as in a family, or home-based day
    care situation...or even neighborhood playing), has been vastly
    overrated, in my (and many well-recognized experts) opinions. The world
    - the real world, so to speak - is not made up only of your peers, but
    many different ages and types of people. If you really want to
    encourage your child to experience it "the way it is", don't limit them
    to a day care, peer-dependent situation. 
    
    Just my opinion....don't blast away too hard, okay?
    
    --dave--

    
    Dave, I don't disagree with your viewpoint but don't really think
    it applies to the situation that the basenoter presents: i.e. a 
    child (only, I'm guessing) that may be experiencing some development 
    delays who has little, if any, interaction with other children at
    this time.   Your children have their siblings and an active church
    "family" with which to interact.....completely different situation.
    
    Anyways, I agree with Lyn (I think) that a part-time daycare situation 
    or multiple play groups would probably be beneficial to Erik and a
    happy medium for mom.   I don't think one play group per week would 
    be enough.   Here's an antedote: my son was a late crawler (10.5 months)
    Jason spent a few hours one weekend with another child that could crawl 
    and could get *Jason's* toys...boy, was he mad!....voila, he was 
    crawling two days later!   So, I think other children (not necessarily 
    identical ages), can really stimulate a child; especially a late bloomer.
    
    Carol     

    
    .0 ... how old is your child?
    
    I think the "age" of the child AND his/her development level (socially,
    physically and intellectually) is important criteria as to what
    environment s/he will:  1) ENJOY! ... and then 2) develop and blossom 
    in.
    
    Jim/I flex-houred the first year ... and we are so thankful and happy
    that we could.
    
    The next 6 months, Juli was in private daycare with a friend.  It had
    a LOT OF PROS and a few CONS.  It worked fine the first 3-4 months
    and then we started seeing some warning signs (behavior) that "JULI"
    seemed bored (same environment, same playmate, same toys ...), was
    getting aggressive, stubborn, wouldn't mind, no schedules -- which was
    part of her own "changes", BUT compounded by her day-to-day existence.
    Jim/I then agreed to seek a daycare which would fit "Juli's" needs (and
    something Jim/I could live with ... re: expense, location, curriculum,
    child/instructor ratio, for toddlers ONLY, etc.).  I also spoke to 
    our Pedi about it.  He felt the daycare we chose was more like a
    learning center than a daycare environment and felt that most kids
    (Juli's age, 18 months) are not ready for a learning center, however,
    he felt JULI was ready and would probably do very well there.  He gave us
    some NEAT pointers and advice, as well as warned us as to signs to watch 
    for (should she not be adjusting/adapting).
    
    Jim/I saw a BIG DIFFERENCE in Juli.  From what we could see, Juli is very
    happy, loves the kids and activities, blends right in, bounces out the
    door (with her lunchbox) each morning, is much more settled and
    responsive (at home), follows (well, most!) instructions ... and is
    learning SO MUCH, too.  The instructors give us "daily" feedback, as
    well as development analyses every 6 months.
    
    Each daycare center IS DIFFERENT.  Don't hesitate to interview them!
    Decide what you would like to gain from this experience:
    	.  social skills
    	.  awareness skills
    	.  discipline and control  (and how do they handle disruption)
    	.  their schedules and weekly activities
    	.  field trips (?)
    	.  learning
    	.  child/instructor ratio
    	.  are the instructors both educated and experienced
    	.  a non-structure, fun-like environment (or a more structured
    		environment if discipline and control is an issue)
    
    Try to figure out what YOUR CHILD NEEDS and WOULD ENJOY ... and then
    go from there (who can meet these needs?: daycare, learning center, 
    homecare, play group ...). 
    
    Most daycare centers will let you bring your child "in" for
    a day or so to see how he will "fit in and adjust" ... BEFORE you commit!
    
    And remember, NOTHING is cast in CONCRETE!  If it doesn't work out ...
    you'll have that much more experience under your belt when you start
    another pursuit for daycare.
    
    Talk to other parents about their daycare situations, how the kids like
    it (since THE KIDS are spending their time there!), THEN how the parent(s)
    like it, pros/cons, price, etc.  Most parents will be very happy to
    discuss this.
    
    But remember ... what works for one parent/one child does not
    necessarily work for ANOTHER!
    
    Bottom line:  Daycare (learning center type) is working best for "us".
    
    Dottie                   

    My guess would be that the environment that would most encourage
    development would be a situation where the child could interact
    with children of a variety of ages, some older who would help him
    and be a role model for more advanced development,  and some
    younger ones that he could help.  Part-time care in the home of a
    sitter who watches or has a variety of ages might be one way to
    get that kind of situation.
    
    --bonnie

    I should have mentioned Erik's age in the basenote, he is 17.5 months. 
    I also should have mentioned that I only work two days per week.  I
    appreciate all the input I've gotten so far.  We're still
    thinking......
    
    Bonnie

    Given the way children experience time, a play group once a week is
    going to seem almost completely new to him each time--it'll hardly
    be a regular event for him, and the other kids will be strangers each
    time.
    
    Remember how long a weekend felt when you were in grade school, and
    adjust for your son's being less than two!
    
    My son (18.5 months) goes to daycare three days a week, and I can see
    that after three days away over the weekend and Monday that it's a bit
    foreign to him.
    			-John Bishop

I'll go with the minority and vote for daycare.  Our daycare refers to itself
as a Learning Center and I'll have to agree.  Again, the teachers are educated
in Early Childhood Development, and take additional training each year, to stay
current.  Do consider the student:teacher ratios when searching, though.  I
have found that most daycare centers (in Texas, and some in Mass and NH) have
better ratios than home care.  There is also a variety of small group, large
group, and inidvidual activity, all geared toward the development level of
the age-group or child.

When I was on the other side of the fence, interviewing home providers, every
single one - without exception - that I called, was willing to talk to me on the
phone for as much as 30 - 45 minutes.  This was regardless of the time I called,
and even if I heard cranky children in the background.  I often heard the
clothes dryer running, call waiting beep in, doorbell ringing, etc...  When I
went to their homes, I saw bills out (obviously being paid, etc.).  All of this
indicated to me that they were doing much more than just minding children, and
it certainly was not educating them!

In an home care, if one child cannot go outside (sick, age, or other) then they
all have to stay inside (or some go out unsupervised).  At our daycare one
teacher will stay inside with any children who can't go outside, while the other
three teachers supervise outside.

One thing that I have noticed is that children at that age tend to get along
BETTER with children older or younger, not children of the same age.  I guess
it's too competitive.  If your son finds it difficult to interact with classmates
his age, it might be better to find a homecare or playgroup with various ages
of children.

Kristen

    re .11 I would like to respectfully disagree on the way you're seeing
    Home daycare.  We had AJ in a home daycare situation for almost 2
    years, this woman even though a home provider took all the children out
    somewhere each day, the local park, swim lessons, local zoos, she even
    went so far as to buy a Dodge Caravan to enable her to cart the kids
    around.  They went to McDonalds, Papa Ginos, or similar place at least
    once a week, at her expense.
    
    Yes she managed to get her laundry done, usually had her supper well
    underway by pick up time, and while the other children we outside
    playing in the fenced in play area with swings, FP Clubhouse etc, her
    daughter slept in the house thanks to her babyminder.  All the kids
    went out almost everyday, she also found a once every two weeks
    playgroup where several daycare providers brought their charges for a
    play/exercise group, this was held at the fire station.  
    
    She was actively involved in a "daycare providers' network" and went to
    meeting several times a month where ideas for things to do, places to
    go and local and latest trends were discussed.  The only downside I
    could see to this network is that they also discussed the amount to
    charge, and she increased her rates, because everyone else was getting
    XXX dollars per week.
    
    Yes he came home dirty every night, but he was happy thanks to her
    keeping current.

    re: .11    It is interesting that you *would not* choose a home daycare
    for exactly the same reason that I *would* choose a home daycare for
    young children.   To me, laundry, writing bills, taking care of sick
    "siblings", cooking meals, etc. are part of what a family is and does, 
    I would be worried of building an expectation for constant entertainment 
    in my child...does that happen?
    
    Carol

I probably have somewhat of a "warped" family life!

>laundry
	Done by the maid
>writing bills
	Done at work during lunch
>taking care of sick siblings
	Knock on wood but only once so far
>cooking meals
	Don't know how, and no interest in learning - takes too much time!

Oh well........
end of rat-hole

>    I would be worried of building an expectation for constant entertainment 
>    in my child...does that happen?

Good point. I'm not sure, and won't know for several years.  I would think that
the the fact that there is not a 1:1 ratio would counter-balance that
problem.....

Kristen:

How nicely put!  Thanks!

Dottie

    I'm not a regular contributor, but I came across your note and saw a
    heavy weighting of responses pro-daycare.  I'm sure daycare is great if
    that's what you want.  But you said you were leaning away from it.  I
    think you should go with your gut instinct.
    
    There is nothing like your own family caring for your child (assuming
    of course, they are the usual loving grandparents).  I have never had
    that option, but I have chosen to have my two girls cared for by one
    loving person in my home.  Not only have I seen no negative
    developmental impact, I have seen an amazing level of independence,
    concentration, and self-entertaining ability develop.
    
    Your idea of a playgroup or social activity a couple of times a week is
    a wonderful idea-- your child is just getting to the age where having
    "friends" is important.  Personally, I think too much emphasis is put
    on "socializing" at a very young age--not that there's harm, I just
    have not seen tremendous benefit.  My almost-7 year old is popular,
    plays beautifully with other kids, and seems reasonably normal.  She
    did not have a great deal of socializing before age 3-- but had several
    good "friends" from the age of 2.
    
    My mother-in-law is a retired pediatrician (so she's probably 'old
    world thinking' )-- she believes adult/child interaction is much more
    important at a young age.
    
    Good luck with your decision!

I agree with follow your own instincts.  It sounds like you're kind of 
like me in this regard.  I work 3 (short) days a week and during that time
Michelle (10.5 months) goes to a friend of mine's house where she has a
first-grader and 2.5-yr old.  I do not want to put Michelle into daycare
because I want her to be in a situation that would be most like her
being at *our* home.  Yeah Sue pays bills, does laundry, etc., but so do
I on the 4 days I have Michelle.  Yeah Sue has no formal training in
child care/development, but neither do I.

I do recognize that Michelle likes to be with other children (of any age),
whether or not they're paying attention to her or not (sometimes she just
likes to watch what they're doing) so my neighborhood has also started
a parents-plus-children playgroup that meets once a month.  So that adds
to her 3 days with Sue's family.  And on my days off I bring her to her
in-laws for more socializing.  Someone also mentioned getting neighborhood
kids together -- great idea.  Go knocking on doors to meet your
neighbors if you have to.  That's what we did when we were kids.

Of course I also realize that as Michelle gets older things may change.
My nephew who is 3.5 years old, loves his daycare.  Michelle seems very
happy now but as she becomes more social, more interactive, she may
benefit by having more.  More as in more things to do, more toys to play
with, more kids to be with.  Who's to say that should start only when
they start *real* school?  I think daycare is kind of like school.  I 
personally always loved school and was bored at home (even with 5 
closely spaced siblings).  I can't remember what I felt before nursery 
school but probably would have liked a daycare environment because it 
was like school.  So realize that things may change from time to time
depending on your child.

Kyra