Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Your husband has also agreed to do all the diaper washing and
    folding, too, right?  That is if you won't use a service.
    
    We use disposables.  I feel guilty about the environmental issues
    when I realize how many diapers we go through.  But then there
    are always the debates about all the water/detergent/electricity/etc 
    that is being used for the cloth diapers and that eases my conscience
    just a little.                  
    
    Donna
    

    Well, you can always compromise ... cloth at home and disposables
    when you go out.  Some day-cares will use cloth diapers if supplied.
    
    The best way to find out how YOU get along with cloth is to give
    diaper service a try ... you have to do virtually nothing with the
    diaper except drop it in the bag in the bucket the service provides.
    We used diaper service for all 3 of our kids until they outgrew the
    standard size they used here ... then we went on to our own terry
    cloth diapers we got from England.
    
    Diaper service provides you with fresh clean diapers and usually once
    a set of diapers have been assigned to you, you always get the same
    diapers back.
    
    We used pins and plastic pants ... but the diaper wraps work very well
    too.  Using cloth is no more difficult than disposables, and you're not
    having to scout around for the best price on disposables and not having
    the problems of discovering that brand x doesn't work well on your baby
    for one reason or another.
    
    Compromise with your husband --- try a diaper service --- then if you
    don't like 'em go for disposables ... at least your husband can't say
    you didn't try ... but I'll lay odds you'll be surprised at how simple
    they are.
    
    Stuart

        It has been a long time since diapers (15 and 17 year
    olds), but we used cloth with a very few exceptions when
    traveling.  Much to my surprise I even did changes, rinsed,
    washed, folded and put away, my share more or less.  Both
    kids had reactions to disposables.  For me the worst part of
    disposables is the odor.  Whatever they are in the stink.
    The diaper pail never had any odor.

        As far as the environmental concerns go, I don't much
    care for the idea of disposables.  Most of biodegradeable
    plastics require sunlight.  There isn't much sunlight under
    ground.  The other point is, our land fill expressly
    prohibits the dumping of excrement.  How many people 'clean'
    disposables before they trash them.

        There is the issue of energy, water, soap et al with
    cloth.  The waste water is generally treated so that takes
    care of that half of the process.  Most detergents do well in
    warm or cold water.  Add a little bleach and clean diapers.

        My vote is cloth, either a service or do them yourself.
    By the way, old diapers make great rags for dusting and
    wipers for the shop or garage.


    Peter Duke

    We use cloth and have for the past 5 years. We have twice had two kids
    in diapers at once. We use the flat, fold your own kind, not the
    pre-flods, because that way they can be folded to whatever size your
    kid is. We bought 5 dozen, when Josh was born, bought 2 dozen more when
    Carrie came along 22 mos. later, and haven't bought another since. One
    or two are starting to wear out. They are still very much in daily use
    with Daniel. We do use disposables when going out for a long enough
    time that will require a diaper change, but that's all. My wife is a
    full-time mom, and throws the diapers in with each days laundry. Since
    there are two loads a day, the diapers never get to sit around long
    enough to get smelly, and she never has to fold lots of diapers at
    once. But, twasn't always so. She used to do diapers separately, when
    she didn't need to wash as often (fewer kids, means fewer clothes!).
    She just rinsed any solids into the toilet, dumped into a pail, and
    wahsed 'em every 2-3 days with regular detergent. They then went
    through an extra rinse. Folding them was never much of a chore, and
    went quickly.
    We chose them for expense sake, environment sake, and comfort sake. We
    have been told by a pedi., that in his experience, kids in cloth
    diapers get fewer yeast infections, and complicated diaper rashes. I'm
    not so sure, from our point of view. They seem to get redder bottoms in
    cloth, but the redness is just all over, sort of like a sunburn is...no
    rash. With disposables, they seem more prone to actual bumpy kinds of
    rashes. Just our experience....your mileage may vary. Our kids all
    actually seem happier in cloth. Our son (who wore them absolutely
    *forever* it seemed!!!) actually would tell us he was more comfortable
    in the "soft" ones, instead of the "ones that crunch when I walk".
    A great endorsement if I ever heard one!
    A long response...a complicated issue! If I were you, I would
    definitely give a dipaer service a chance, if you cannot deal with the
    thought of washing diapers. Good luck with the choice!
    
    --dave--

    We use cloth diapers when we are home because they are supposedly 
    more environmentally sound, and disposables when we are out so I don't
    have to lug around dirty diapers. Personally, I find the cloth diapers 
    to be just convenient.  I drop dirty diapers in a sealed pail - no need 
    to rinse - and exchange the dirty diapers for clean ones once a week 
    when the diaper service comes by.  We use diaper wraps, so the diapers 
    go on just like disposable ones - no pins or rubber pants to worry about.
    And the service only costs us about $12.00 per week - about the same
    as we would pay for disposables (unless I took the time to price shop 
    and save coupons)

    However - I have read a number of articles lately (including some in
    environmental magazines) that claim diaper services are not necessarily
    more environmentally sound than disposables.  Disposables clearly
    add more to our trash problem.  But washing cloth diapers uses up 
    precious clean water, add more to the water pollution problem,
    and use up energy to run the washing machines.  Diaper services
    are even worse because the wash the diapers a couple times and use
    all sorts of chemicals to sterilize the diapers, and drive around
    in trucks which burn fossil fuels - using up a precious resource
    and adding to the greenhouse effect.  

    So - from what I have been reading, there is no clear winner between
    disposables and a diaper services from an environmental, financial,
    or convenience standpoint.  

    But - if you want to wash your own diapers, you can save money and be 
    nice to the environment.  Also, Proctor and Gamble is developing a 
    disposable diaper where the plastic part can easily be removed from the  
    diaper after use.  You throw away a small plastic wrap, and compost the 
    insides.      
    
    

    most parents come to believe that THEIR child is some exceptional 
    child that no other person has ever had the pleasure of raising.
    I suggest earily potty training.  Maybe starting at age 2 days.
    
    I read claims on both sides of the fences in the articles that I read.
    I'm not about to get too shaken up with which ever method a person
    uses.  I hope that those who do choose either method don't don a
    holler than thou attitude  unless they have participated in studies
    that will conclussively prove the other side's studies were a fraud.
    
    I think if one were really earth-wize, they could draw up a list of ten
    things that they could do that would help the environment better than 
    which diaper to use.
    
    ed

    I agree with .1  WHO is going to do the folding and washing?  If he
    expects you to then he has NO argument in my opinion, disposables win.
    
    If HE is willing to do the majority or all of the folding and washing
    then let him... it will save you money. And, I WOULD MAKE SURE HE
    ACTUALLY DOES IT, OR RIGHT BACK TO DISPOSABLES. (You might have a
    supply on the side so you don't get caught unarmed with disposables.)
    
    Perhaps a compromise too IF he is willing to do the folding and
    washing.  What if you use disposables and he uses the washable?  I
    have heard of stranger compromises being worked out.  Or at home use
    the washables or on trips or away from home use the disposables.
    
    There is one more option too, and that is the diaper service.  Would
    that keep both of you happy?  He is environmentally friendly and you
    don't have the hassle of washing folding all those diapers. 
    
    Mr. Mom

    I made an environmental compromise this time.  I used cloth
    diapers washed at home when Kat was a wee one, and I found it an
    incredible incredible pain in the behind.  Of course I hate
    laundry in the first place.  Anyway, now that I'm working, I
    couldn't see taking up that kind of time and effort with more
    busywork around the house when I could be spending it with the
    family.  But I didn't want to add to the environmental pollution,
    either. 
    
    Then I found out that while disposables make up about 2% of the
    trash in the nation's landfills, the largest single item is -- can
    you guess -- yard waste.  Lawn clippings, branches, etc.  Varies
    from 24% to 37% depending on the area of the country you live in. 
    No, I don't remember which area of the country was higher.
    
    So I use disposables and mulch my lawn clippings.
    
    I decided not to use a diaper service several years ago when a
    friend of mine who worked at one of them got an unexpected day off
    when a bin of their detergent fell off the dolly onto a wet floor
    and they had to evacuate the building and call in a toxic waste
    cleanup crew to get it off the floor . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    I'm with you, Bonnie.  I wimped out and went disposables for
    my first and only.  BUT, we do mulch all our lawn clippings
    and seperate and recycle all our paper trash and glass (that's
    all our town handles so far) and reuse all plastic bags many,
    many times.   That's my compromise.
    
    cj/

    I use both cloth and disposable diapers (actually it's my daughter that
    really uses them :-)).  I use disposables for daycare, outings that
    will involve more than one diaper change, and holidays, and cloth
    diapers (called terry nappies, or terries in the UK) for the rest of the 
    time.  I like to think that I'm being environmentally friendly, but the 
    main reason I use cloth diapers is cost.  Even taking into account the 
    cost of the electricity for the washing machine, and the santizing powder 
    I use, it's still cheaper than using disposables.  I don't have a tumble
    drier, so that doesn't enter into the equation.  Even if I could afford
    it, I wouldn't be tempted to use disposables all the time.  It only
    takes a few minutes to rinse the cloth diapers and put them in the washing
    machine (with the rest of the washing) and only a few minutes more to
    hang them out to dry.  
    
    As for sore bottoms - I've noticed that my daughter is more prone to
    getting a sore bottom when in disposables.  She's fine in cloth
    diapers, even the overnight one that's on for about 12 hours (and
    doesn't leak, either). 
    
    I agree that using cloth diapers requires water and electriciy for washing,
    and the sanitising solution gets washed into the drains - all
    potentionally environmentally unfriendly - but weighed against that -
    the manufacture of disposable uses water, electricity and chemicals, to
    keep a child in disposables uses one trees worth of wood pulp every six
    months, (multiply that by the number of children that use disposables
    and calculate how many trees are being cut down) and as has been mentioned
    before, disposables means putting plastic and excrement in landfill sites.
    
    The main thing that puts me off disposables is I don't like spending
    money on something that will be thrown away when there's a perfectly
    good reusable alternative.   
    
    - Janet
                                      

    I am, like you, 3 months pregnant also.  I plan on using cloth diapers
    for the sole reason that we believe theese are better for the baby! 
    There are other good reason for using them, but this was our first
    reason.  Then, after talking with other who use cloth and others who
    use disposables and between the 2, we've come to decide that cloth are
    better all around.  I've checked into a diaper service and gotten alot
    of info sent ot me about cloth diapers price, cleaning and odor!!  All
    seem to be just what we're looking for.  I know that there are cloth
    diapers you have to fold, then there are the ones you don't have to
    fold.  We saw some really NICE cloth diapers in a magazine called
    "dimples", they do not require pins or folding. They sort of look like
    huggies, but they're cloth!  They would be great if you don't plan on
    washing your own.  If you use a service, then you won't need to worry
    about washing them, and most of them use diapers you don't have to fold
    but they require pins and diaper wraps.
    
    Think thoroughly about your decision, there's alot to take into
    consideration.  I think, there at least worth a try.
    
    :^)  Good luck,
    
    Meliss

    re: .10
    
    You also have to count the manufacture of the detergents and
    bleaches used to wash the diapers -- some of the chemicals that go
    into making detergent are extremely toxic. 
    
    --bonnie

We're using cloth diapers and diaper covers for Michael (age 8 months).  We 
decided on cloth for environmental reasons as well as cost, and the fact 
that our pedi said cloth is better on him.  Pat decided not to use a diaper 
service, mainly because she didn't want a week's worth of dirty diapers 
lying around, and a week's worth of clean ones to store somewhere.  
Granted, she's a stay-at-home Mom, but she swears doing diapers is one of 
her easiest tasks.  In fact, she says if she spent as little time making 
bottles as she spends laundering diapers, she'd have a lot more time in her 
day.

I read something the other day that said it all:  Every disposable diaper 
that has *ever* been used is still here, and will remain here for our 
lifetimes and our children's lifetimes and their children's lifetimes and 
more.

Steve

    We are thinking of going cloth with our second and will weigh all the
    factors (will the daycare use them, will the service deliver to the
    daycare, detergants used, etc). One question I plan on directly asking
    a service why they don't use biodegradable detergents at least. We have 
    it for our home washing so I'm sure they can get it as well. 
    
    I like the idea that I won't leave plastic outers (or at least not as
    many) around so this child can't "blame" me. I might even try to
    wash the diapers myself while on maternity leave to see how much time
    it really consumes during my day. If a load at night is all it is, then
    I can probably handle it. The issue is going to be getting my husband
    to empty out a diaper!!! ;>)
    
    When will pampers at least start to use the biodegradable plastic
    outers?!?! They do make biodegradable disposables but they work out to
    be very expensive because the inners are just thick cotton padding and
    it doesn't hold as much so you change about twice as often. Plus they
    never fit my son right so I ended up washing more clothes from
    leakages. 
    
    It's all just weighing the lesser of the "evils"....
    
    Andrea (who plants a tree everytime one falls in the back yard)

    (Sorry, I have to say this, even thought it's getting "religious"
    on this issue...) 
    
    I really feel the "biodegradable" disposables are a menace -- they lull
    us into thinking we can have our cake and eat it too. Environmentally,
    that just isn't possible. 
    
    The biodegradables have two flaws. First, as someone else mentioned, 
    they require sunlight to break down, and that doesn't happen in
    landfills. Second, they don't address the issue of putting untreated
    human waste into the ground. Even when you shake out a diaposable
    before tossing it, a lot remains, and goes into the landfill.
    
    Lucy
    

    RE.8  I can't see detergent on a wet floor as being your final argument
    on whether or not to use disposables.  It just isn't enough, if you
    think about the fact that an environmental clean up company (I have a
    friend who is a supervisor for one of our Local ones) is called in to
    mop up 5 gallons of fuel or anitfreeze spilled after a motor vehicle 
    accident, let's take it one step further this company hauls water used
    to wash potatoes from a potatoe chip company, are you going to stop
    eating potato products too???  
    
    Just another way of looking at it
    Lyn
    

    
    I used disposables with Hannah, but probably would go with cloth (using
    a diaper service) if I were to do it again.
    
    I WORRY about my heavy use of disposables on Hannah.  What exactly is
    in that GEL that they use to bead away the wetness?  Are we going to
    find out 20 years from now that all those CHEMICALS in the disposables
    cause cancers or birth defects--ala thalidomide and D.E.S.?
    
    While I am concerned about our environment--environmental issues are
    not the only ones I think we should worry about with disposables.  I
    for one, worry about what we are putting next to our baby's skin.
    
    I mean, here I was--only buying cotton clothing for my baby and then
    turning around and putting potentially toxic chemicals next to her
    skin.  I can't believe I was so naive.
    
    Just a thought...
    
    Bonnie
    
    

    I just remembered my sister buying thin fiber inserts to put in her
    daughter's cloth diapers, this was to help separate the solid from the wet,
    making it easier to collect and flush the solids.  If the diaper had
    no solids in it, (the frugal person she is) she'd pull it out rinse it
    slightly, let it dry and use it again. (I wouldn't reuse, she can if
    she wants!)  I've seen these at Sears, it's a thin, blue non-woven material
    that looks kind of like Handi-Wipes, I think they're called something like
    diaper inserts, not to be confused with "diaper doublers"
    
    Lyn
    

    At one time I was trying to contrast the environmental impact of using
    disposables, using a diaper service and doing my own diapers.  As part
    of my research, I called Dydee in Manchester, NH to get information
    about their washing process.  The woman I spoke with said they use the
    same process as is used for washing hospital linens.  I asked for more
    details.  The diapers are washed multiple times using extremely hot
    water.  At least one of the washes is done with bleach. The diapers are
    then rinsed several times.  The final rinse contains an anti-bacterial
    agent.  The woman also said you do not get the same diapers back each
    time as they are all washed together.  I wanted more details about the
    washing process but the woman I spoke to said the company doesn't give
    out the information I wanted.  Some things they wouldn't tell me are:
    how many washes and rinses are done per load, how many gallons of water
    are used per cycle, the temperature of their hot water and the names of
    the chemicals used in the wash and rinse cycles.
    
    As for doing your own diapers, my mom always used cloth diapers with no
    trouble.  She rinsed the messy ones in the toilet and then tossed them
    in with the regular white laundry.  She always washed in cold water
    with bleach and usually used powdered Tide detergent and liquid fabric
    softener.  She ran them through the regular wash cycle (no extra
    rinses) and hung them outside to dry.  She usually did three loads of
    laundry per day (big family) with one of them being whites.
    
    As for changing cloth diapers, our family never had any trouble.  My
    mom always used pins and rubber pants.  I was able to pin cloth diapers
    by the age of 6 or so.  (I changed my younger sister's diaper while mom
    was napping - without mom knowing.)  My two younger brothers were born
    while I was in high school so I got plenty of experience with cloth
    diapers then.

    After doing all my diaper research, we opted to use disposables.  We
    decided the advantages of lower cost and convenience of disposables
    were worth it for us (there were also other reasons).
    
    There has been a lot of misrepresentation of disposables around (not
    just in parenting).  One big thing is "all those trees being killed
    to make paper diapers".  There is very little paper in disposables
    today as the absorbent stuff is now a gel.  I see this as a positive
    for diaper users but a definite negative for the environment.  Another
    thing has to do with "biodegradable" diapers.  The problem with any
    "biodegradable" plastic is a big piece of plastic breaks down into
    extremely small pieces of plastic which end up in our water supply.
    
    There's also a lot of talk about children getting more rashes if they
    use disposables.  I think it's mainly due to two things: parents leave
    the diapers on longer and/or they don't do a careful cleanup job at
    changing time.  My mom noticed this years ago (she did daycare).  She
    usually cared for extremely low income children whose parents would
    send a dozen diapers on Monday and expect them to last the week.  She'd
    run out on Tuesday and the parents would have a fit.  My mother would
    clear up any rashes during the week but the kids would have one again
    on Monday.  In our case, we used extra precautions from day 1.  We washed
    Nicole's bottom at each diaper change and put vaseline on the entire area.
    Even though I'd leave her diapers on longer than I would have left
    cloth diapers, she only got one rash which was caused by a nasty bm.
    The cloth diaper users I've known seemed to be much more careful about
    cleaning up after each diaper change than the disposable users I know.
    
    One thing I'm a bit confused about is the issue of human waste being a
    problem at a landfill.  There seems to be concern about it leaking out
    yet it's ok for me to dump it in my back yard.  I figured the waste
    would break down at the dump in the same way it breaks down in a septic
    tank, anaerobic bacteria which is conveniently found in the waste
    itself.  One thing that annoyed me about this issue is my mother griped
    about me putting human waste in the dump yet she routinely sends cat
    waste to her town's dump.  She agrees she's being inconsistent. 
    Actually, I'm not sure whether my garbage goes to a landfill or to an
    incinerator.
    
    Now for the better news.  Somewhere there are some towns that are doing
    some experimental recycling of disposable diapers.  I believe you set
    the diapers out each week in a plastic bag (just like a diaper service)
    and they are picked up and recycled - bag and all.  The wood pulp from
    the liner is separated out and used for other paper products (computer
    paper was listed) and the plastics are used to make things like park
    benches and bulletproof vests.  I hope this program is successful and
    is implemented in other towns.  I'd gladly participate.

    Samantha is 8 months old now, and I've tried 'em all so far!  Here are
    my conclusions.
    
    I started with a diaper service, 1) for environmental reasons, and 2)
    because I had a 3 month gift certificate :)  I used DyDee and found it
    very convenient; easy; no odor; etc.  Then once I began paying $12.45
    per week, the only downside was the cost.
    
    Next, I went on vacation and decided to try disposables for a change
    for a week.  I thought the pretty pink diapers were adorable, but that
    was the only plus I found!!  If I were a baby, I'd much prefer to have
    the cotton next to my skin that _whatever_ it is they make disposables
    out of today.  And, they smelled!  I had to empty the trash daily as
    opposed to once a week so the house didn't smell.
    
    Next (just last week) I decided to buy my own diapers, which cost 4
    weeks worth of diaper service.  Decided I'd try them out for a month,
    and if it wasn't too much of a pain, I'd stick with it.  I found it to
    be convenient; easy; no odor, all the same as the service - PLUS very
    economical!!  I found rinsing the poopy diapers to not be gross at all
    like I thought, because all you do is hold a corner and put in toilet,
    flush, and all the yuck goes into the septic/sewer system where it
    _belongs_.  Then, just toss in the diaper pail, pee-pee diapers you
    just toss in.
    
    So my preference in order:
    
    1) cloth - wash 'em yourself (economical plus winning out)
    2) cloth - diaper service (economical only negative)
    3) disposable - only plus being the "cute pink" diapers with little
                    cartoons on 'em
    
    You only know what's best for _you_ if you try it yourself, so give 
    all your options a whirl.
    
    Cheryl
    

    I can't pretend not to be heavily biased in favor of cloth for many of
    the reasons already posted.  I bought my own and wash at home after
    using diaper service for those first few hectic weeks.  Oh, we do use
    chemical free disposables when we travel out of town.
    
    To add a couple of other considerations...
    
    Kids often get rashes in disposables because the temperature next to
    their skin is so much higher.  Rubber pants have the same drawback.
    
    There are so many alternatives in diapering nowadays!  Look for ads in
    magazines (recommended: pick up a copy of "Mothering") and call for
    catalogs.  There are diapers cut to fit diaper covers, diapers that
    have velcro so you just wrap the baby up in them, all sorts of ways to
    make it easy and fast without the worry of what those gels and perfumes
    are doing to the baby.
    
    And I think it's much easier to wash a load of laundry than to
    constantly be shopping and stocking huge bags of disposables.
    
    I realize the environmental impact issues are not clear cut right now
    since the disposable companies started putting such an effort to
    research this for us ;-}.   But somehow it seems to me to make a
    difference to choose to use something reusable - not disposable, not
    recyclable, but something we can use from cradle to dustrag.

    We used cloth diapers for the first 9 months of Ryan's life. It was my
    husband's suggestion, based on his experience with his first 2
    children, many years ago.  Since we found ourselves doing a load of
    baby laundry each day anyway (Ryan was a BIG spitter), it didn't add
    any drudgery to our lives.
    
    We used Nikkis, Biobottoms and Diaperwraps. Nikkis are indeed the
    nicest, I think, especially the cotton ones. Though very expensive.
    Diaperwraps, as someone else commented, had cheap velcro. Hopefully
    they improved it.
    
    I still don't put disposables on correctly :-)... and like someone else
    mentioned, I remember thinking how noisy they were on a baby as opposed
    to cloth!
    

    re: .17
    
    That's true, Lyn, but they don't have to evacuate the plant for 5
    gallons of fuel oil, either.
    
    --bonnie

    I don't reallly want to get into the debate about which is better cloth
    or disposable. I just recount my own experience.  Marisa is 14 weeks
    old and I just cancelled Dydee diaper service.
    
    1.  Marisa got repeated diaper rash from the cloth diapers. My husband and
        babysitter are both fanatics about changing diapers so I know
        she never sat in a wet diaper for any length of time. She may have
        been allergic to the detergent Dydee used.
    
    2.  Even when doubling up the cloth diapers, Marisa still soaked
    	through and both the babysitter and I changed her outfits two or
        three times a day.
    
    3.  We are very active people and we found disposables more convenient.
    
    My Mom had four kids, one of which she used disposable diapers on. She
    says disposable diapers are the best invention.
    
    Donna
     

    I just need to inject a little walk down memory lane into this
    discussion.  As I drove home last night I notice a home in the
    neighborhood with one of those square drying lines in the back,
    positively *full* of little white diapers, drying.  I could only
    remember that when I was growing up you could always tell who had just
    had a baby by the lines full of diapers you'd see hanging out.  Kind of
    hanging out a flag to announce the birth!  Of course now just about
    everyone has a dryer and just about nothing is left to air dry, which
    means if you don't use disposables, you're drying the cloth ones inside
    anyway.  So how's anyone to know when you've given birth....must be the
    dark circles under the eyes!!
    
    Lyn
    

RE: .25

The local (Chicago area) Dydee Wash will do special washes or rinses if your 
baby reacts to the standard diapers.  I never had to take them up on it but they
say they will do whatever you need.  Hmmm, I suppose I did take advantage of
that - their diapers had a scent by default and I asked that they deliver them
with no perfumed products.  It was no problem.

=ss

Someone mentioned that you don't get back the same diapers ...  that may be
so for some companies, but with the three services we dealt with, we ALWAYS
got the same diapers back ... you get to recognise them !

We just bought a pack of disposables with an interesting leaflet in it ...
xxxx is the brand name of the diaper ...

"Like other industrialized nations, Canada is facing a shortage of garbage
disposal space.  At xxxx, we've been working hard to minimize our contribution
to the problem.

"HOW WE'VE REDUCED THE AMOUUNT OF SPACE DISPOSABLE DIAPERS TAKE UP IN GARBAGE
DISPOSAL SITES.

"In 1987, xxxx switched from thick to thin diapers.  xxxx are now 50% thinner.
Today, disposable diapers take up less than 2% of the space in residential
garbage disposal sites (1).

"In 1987, xxxx changed over to new packaging.  Today, xxxx packaging waste
volumes have been reduced by 90% (2).

"WHY RECYCLING AND COMPOSTING ARE BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT THAN BIODEGRADABLE
DIAPERS.

"Most of what goes into garbage disposal sites is biodegradable(3), including
over 70% of the material in disposable diapers(2). Unfortunately, though,
nothing biodegrades much in garbage disposal sites.

"The problem is, city disposal sites aren't like backyard compost heaps.
They're specially constructed to be as airtight and watertight as possible.
And without air or water, biodegradable materials can't break down.  In fact,
25 year old newspapers, carrots and even hot dogs have been unearthed in
garbage sites in nearly perfect condition(3).  That's why a fully biodegradable
diaper isn't the solution to the problem of diaper volumes in garbage disposal
sites.  Biodegradablity will require significantly more research and development
before it is provento be effective.

"Fortunately, there are two better alternatives: recycling and composting 
(which we're currently testing).  Turn the page and find out more

{Next page}

{Picture showing height of a pile of old xxxx vs new xxxx}

{Pie chart showing Total solid waste (in Canada) as being 2/3 Industrial
 Waste and 1/3 Municipal}

{Pie chart showing Municipal waste
     Paper and cardboard  38%
     Glass                 7%
     Food                 17%
     Metal                 7%
     Plastic               6%
     Yard Waste           15%
     Misc                  8%
     Diapers               2%}

{Picture of a newspaper buried in a disposal site from 1976 in near perfect
condition}


{last page}

"WE'RE STARTING UP NEW RECYCLING AND COMPOSTING PROGRAMS FOR DISPOSABLE
DIAPERS"

"With the cooperation of local governments and waste management firms, we're
sponsoring the devenlopment of two new processes to prevent disposable diapers
ending up in garbage disposal sites.

". OUR RECYCLING PROJECT .  In one test city(4), disposable diapers are being 
picked up, then processed to separate the pulp from the plastic.  Both pulp and
plastic are sanitized, then the pulp is used to make cardboard boxes.  The
plastic goes to making garbage bags and flower pots.

".OUR COMPOSTING PROJECT.  Since 1988, we've been helping another city(5) to
odourlessly compost diosposable diapoers along with other ocmpostable waste(6).
Once the plastic has been skimmed off for recycling, the rest is sanitized and
turned into topsoil for gardening.  Already a dozen or so communities are
planning to adopt this process.

"And it seems that both recycling and composting could be highly cost efficient
alternatives to using up garbage disposal site space.

"A FEW OTHER THINGS WE'D LIKE YOU TO KNOW

"1. We plant more than one new tree for every tree we cut down to make xxxx(7).

"2. The pulp making plant that provides pulp for all xxxx made in Canada has
won impressive environmental awards (8).

"3. xxxx' packaging is recyclable where plastic film recycling is available.

"4. The process used for xxxx produces a pulp that is purer, more absorbent,
and less likely to bunch up when wet thatn the pulp produced by other methods(9)

"5. xxxx have proven time and again to keep babies drier rhan cloth diapers and
at least as dry as other disposables(2) thereby reducing the likelihood of
serious diaper rash(10).

References (shortened for brevity sb)

1. SWEAP - Solid Waste Environmental Assessment Plan for the Municipality of
Toronto and the Regional Mnicipalities of Durham and York

2. Makers of xxxx

3. Dr W.L.Rathje et al, Source reduction and landfill myths 1988

4. Seattle, Washington

5. St. Cloud, Minnesota

6. Composting municipal solid wastes, A.S. Razvi

    RE .28, while appreciate what you're trying to say, I'm not sure where
    you're located, but I'd take a guess it's Canada.  Here in Mass, unless
    I'm way off base, most everyone who has curbside trash pickup has it
    taken to the incenerator in Millbury.  Most towns have either closed or
    are in the process of closing land fill sites.  Our town closed ours
    about 3 years ago, some of our neighboring towns have converted the
    landfill sites into recyling centers, complete with Salvation Army
    boxes at some places.  
    
    The basis for this is that the issue of diapers, newpapers and whatever
    else sitting unchanged for umpteen years in a landfill may be an
    obsolete point, at least for Mass, and some of it's bordering states. 
    Now before the issue of incenerator becomes a rat trap, Millbury
    (Wheelabrator) has installed state of the art equipment with many
    scrubbers on its stacks, and I'm fairly certain they are, or plan to
    generate their own plant heat (steam) through the burning process, with
    enough left over to share.
    
    In our town, we have to pay a contractor (such as BFI or Waste
    Management) to haul our trash, there is no such thing as "free" or
    municipal trash pickup.  I'm the first one to say that is frustrating.
    Bottom line to this rambling is that dumps as we know them may not
    exist in the future.
    
    Lyn
    

    Our trash is also hauled (by the town) to an incinerator in No. Andover
    rather than to a dump. Although we use a diaper service for Nick, we do
    use disposables at daycare and when on the road. Because our trash is
    burned rather than 'stored', we base our choice of disposable diapers
    not so much on biodegradability (boy, that's a mouthfull...), but
    rather on how efficiently it will burn. We try to stick to brands that
    use less plastic and more natural 'ingredients' (wood pulp, cornstarch, 
    etc.), the theory being that these burn more cleanly.
    
    FWIW, we're very happy with our diaper service (DyDee), and have no
    plans to rely more heavily on disposables. Nick's never had significant
    diaper rash with either the cloth or the disposables. 
    
    Just my $.02
    
    Freddie
    

    I just switched from disposable to cloth this week for both financial
    and environmental reasons.  However, I becoming frustrated with how
    soon my son wets through a double diaper and diaper wrap.  Ryan is
    2, and drinks alot.  I thought that if I doubled the diaper and used
    a diaper-doubler he'd be dry for the night.  So far he's wet through
    every night but one.  In the daytime it's better, but he still needs
    to be changed every 3 hours or so.  Does anyone have any suggestions
    on how to keep him from leaking through.  I've invested about $60
    in the cloth diapers and wraps, and I really want to give this a try!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Sue

    re: .31
    
    Changing a 2-yr-old every three hours or so during the day sounds
    right for cloth diapers. One of the reasons a lot of people like
    them is that the child doesn't stay in one diaper for such a long 
    time, which is better for the skin. So your daytime schedule sounds
    like what should expect. 
    
    2-year-olds do have a great bladder capacity, don't they?! I know how
    you feel about the night diaper situation. One idea is to put a pair of
    Rubber Duckies (nylon pants) over the whole works at bedtime. 
    
    If nothing works at night, you could compromise by using a disposable
    at night and cloth during the day. You'd still be making a very
    positive contribution to the environment by eliminating the daytime
    disposables.
    
    Lucy
    

    re: .31
    
    Ah, the disposable diaper mentality.... seeing changing diapers every 3
    hours as being _frequent_ !  The problem/benefit, depending on your
    viewpoint, with disposables is you can't tell when the diaper 
    is wet until it's _wet_ , probably several pees later.  With 
    a cloth diaper, as soon as one little ounce of pee is on 
    the diaper you can tell (if you check) that it's wet... even if only
    15 minutes later.  Again, this can be seen as a problem _or_ benefit,
    depending on your viewpoint.
    
    FYI, Samantha is 8 1/2 months and I change her every 1 1/2 - 2 hours. 
    She uses cloth.  I bet if I had started with disposables, I'd think 
    this was a ton!!!  It's all relative to what you're used to.
    
    My advice re: nighttime. . . use a disposable.  If your child is
    wetting through 2 diapers, a doubler, _and_ a wrap I'd say you did your
    best for the environment, your economy, and whatever else you can think
    of for reasons for using cloth.  A compromise might be called for here.
    
    Cheryl
    Who's_not_looking_forward_to_Samantha_turning_2_if_she's_going_to_
    pee_that_much!!!!  :-)
    
                               

    
    A new diaper ever 1 1/2 to 2 hours?  Either you're obsessive, or that's
    not a daughter, but a fire hydrant (what color scheme?).  I've used
    both cloth and disposable, and can't imagine that.
    
    As to the wetness of disposables, any parent who can't tell just
    doesn't know how to check!
    
    		- Bruce
    

    Do people who use disposables really only change their child
    a few times per day?  I doubt it.  We use disposables and Eric
    needs changing every 2 1/2 hours or so.  Three hours is the most
    I ever leave him in a diaper.  I don't wait for it to weigh 5 lbs.
    
    Donna
    

>    A new diaper ever 1 1/2 to 2 hours?  Either you're obsessive, or that's
>    not a daughter, but a fire hydrant (what color scheme?).  I've used
>    both cloth and disposable, and can't imagine that.

Well, we must have a fire hydrant too 'cause Michael (age 8-1/2 months) 
sometimes soaks completely through a cloth diaper in 2 hours.  We change 
him every 1-1/2 to 2 hours during the day.  We finally gave up on 
double-diapering him at night and using a wrap; he soaked through that 
set-up in just a few hours.  Now we double-diaper him with diaper pins and 
use plastic pants at night.  The diapers are dripping wet in the morning, 
but at least his sleeper and sheets stay dry.  We've had no trouble at all 
with the plastic pants, and would certainly recommend that solution over 
using disposables at night.

FWIW,
Steve

The June 1990 monthly newsletter from the Manchester, NH Dydee diaper
service contains a long article describing in detail how they wash the diapers.
It's too long to type in, but at the end it says:

	If you have any suggestions or questions regarding the safety of our
	washing process for your children or the environment, please feel free
	to contact:

	Tim Landry, President
	Dy Dee Service of NH
	1-800-562-6292

It's possible that you could get a copy of this issue of the newsletter by
calling the Manchester office (they're in the phone book, in the white pages
under Dy-dee - I don't have the phone number handy right now).  I can also try
to make a copy of the article for you if you are interested (send me mail).
I don't know how legible the copy will be, because the original has blue
print.
	cheryl

    Our daughter, 2 1/4 years old, has always worn cloth diapers.  Until
    she was about 1 year old we had to change her every 1 to 1 1/2 hours.
    Since then it's reduced to every 1 1/2 to 2 hours.  Now that she's
    STARTING to learn about potty training, she'll hold it for 2 hours or
    so but once she goes, it's through the diaper, the wrap AND her pants.
    But, we still use cloth because it's better for the environment and
    it's cheaper.
    
    Diana

    My daughter is 20 months. I use cloth diapers at home and the sitter
    uses the cloth diapers I bring. The service provides extra thick cloth
    diapers at no extra charge now that I only use 48 a week. I recently
    bought and used some disposable diapers for a trip out of town that
    were advertised as "biodegradable". The difference I saw between these
    a the major diaper brands was that the absorbant "filling" was not the
    stuff that gets jelly-like. Anyway my point in this rambling was that
    my daughter had major leaks in these diapers and I have no problems
    with the cloth. I use double diapers at night and during the day she
    gets changed every 3-4 hours.

RE:
>                      -< major leaks with "biodegrables" >-

We had the same experience.  Now when we go out of town we use Huggies, and 
Michael can go all night without his diaper leaking.

Steve

    Saw a cute cartoon the other day...
    
    Frame 1:
    First-time father-to-be and his very pregnant wife are talking --
    She:  Honey, I really think we should use cloth diapers instead of
    disposables, don't you?
    He:  Well, I don't really know.  How do they work?
    
    Frame 2:
    She:  Well, they work just like disposables except instead of throwing
    the diaper away when you take it off the baby, you rinse it out in the
    commode with your hands till all the poop is off, then put it in a pail
    of water where it stays till you're ready to launder it.
    
    Frame 3:
    They are just looking at each other.  Total silence.
    
    Frame 4:
    He:  Naw ... *SERIOUSLY*, how do they work?
    
    Steve