Conference moira::parenting_v3

Jack, I might have missed something in your note, but how did you
manage to equate the appearance of a sleeping bag in his car to sex?
Any chance there is a valid explanation and you were just taken aback
and therefor haven't asked him yet?

I never bothered with a sleeping bag for the back seat...:-).

    Hi Jack,
    
          Do you attend church?  If so you can Tell him of all of the
    biblical reasons that sex is best kept for marriage.  If not you can
    tell him about all of the dangers there are with sexually transmitted
    disease as well as the possibility of him becoming a father.  Relate
    your own experiences to him and tell him that he is going to wish that
    he waited for the girl that he is going to marry.  It's the most common
    regret you here from happily married paople who were sexually active
    before they fell in love with thier spouse.  Good luck.  Also,
    regarding -1, better safe and address the problem and err on the side
    of caution.
    
    
    Peace,
    
    Mike

    Jack,
    
    My husband has 2 children from a previous marriage - they are 19 and
    about to turn 17, the eldest a boy, the younger a girl. My husband had
    his first child at 18 and he has been very open with the kids how they
    should have waited and been A LOT more careful. I know for a fact that
    my husband has had some honest and very open discussions about sex,
    precautions for pregnancy and disease. Luckily, we have some very level
    headed kids!! His son has been seeing the same girl for well over a
    year now and we know they are sexually active (the news first delivered by 
    his sister who informed us that the girl friend was on the pill and they
    also used other precautions just in case). We are lucky. I think it has
    been the openness about the meaning of sex (not openness of go ahead
    and do it for fun and entertainment).  I took my step-son aside once
    and kiddingly told him "if you make me a grandmother at 28, I'll kill
    you"!!! He knew I really meant it. 
    
    I think since my husband was an example of what can happen if you are
    not careful, it has stuck. It's not that their situation is awful or
    anything but they understand all that they had to go through being
    young parents and still wanting to keep with your life's plan (i.e.
    college, jobs, nice home, vacations, etc).
    
    Have an honest talk about your concerns that for every action there may be
    consequences and you just want him to be aware of that. This day and
    age, precautions are readily available and there is no need to be
    embarressed buying them. Your son should never assume it is the girl's
    problem either. It is a joint decision!!! Sixteen is such a "hormonal"
    age - he's thinking of alot too!!
    
    Best of luck.
    

    I was sexually active long before I met Neil, Kat is the result of
    that, and while there have certainly been drawbacks from being a
    teenage mother (19), on the whole I can't say that I regret it,
    and if I tried to tell Kat that I felt any of those experiences
    detracted from the marriage I have now, I'd be lying.  If
    anything, they make me appreciate more that sex is very important
    to a marriage, but so are other things. 
    
    I try to make sure she knows about the biological facts -- how
    diseases are transmitted as well as how babies are made -- and the
    emotional context.  She knows there's a lot more than sex to a
    loving relationship, but she also knows that sex is natural, and
    important.  I've tried to raise her so she's confident of her own
    abilities and doesn't have to be afraid to say no. 
    
    The corollary of that is that she shouldn't be afraid to say yes,
    either, when the time is right for her and the boy. 
    
    --bonnie

No flame from me, Bonnie; I agree.

However, Jack - I also agree with Liz.  I don't see how a sleeping bag in 
the backseat necessarily has anything to do with sex.  As a matter of fact,
if I was going to assume, I would say that it *doesn't*.  Why don't you
ask your son about it?

          Carol

    I agree with .3 and previous noters that you should just have an 
    honest and open conversation about your concerns.  You should discuss
    the risks and talk about precautions, although I cannot help but
    believe that he already knows full well.  In the day and age, 16
    is *not* very early to be sexually active - at all.  
    
    I plan on having such discusions early on with my kids (at soon as 
    they are teenagers) - certainly not to encourage sex, but rather
    to be sure they are well educated by the time they decide to.  As
    you hear time and time again, if they *want* to do it they are going
    to - no matter how much you try to tell them not to.
    
    -ali   

   re: <<< Note 77.6 by SALEM::SILVERIA >>>

>    believe that he already knows full well.  In the day and age, 16
>    is *not* very early to be sexually active - at all.  
    
   I have to take exception to this - I disagree.  You are talking
   about situation ethics, which is not related to this topic, but is
   also something I disagree with.  If you want, we can take this to
   another note, but I'm not so sure that its even related to
   PARENTING.  Oh well, perhaps we should simply agree to disagree on
   this one...  :-)
   
   - Tom

    re: .7
    
    The ethics themselves might be a rathole, but it's a good point. 
    Whether it's right to have sex at 16 because lots of people are
    doing it is an issue of situation ethics, and I don't care to
    debate that here or elsewhere.   But despite what you or I think
    is right and wrong, we have to be prepared to deal with what the
    people around our children are doing. What .6 says is pretty much
    a statement of fact -- many teenagers are having sex at ages a lot
    younger than 16.  
    
    I don't get the impression that the majority of 16-year-olds right
    now are in fact sexually active.  But if a 16-year-old is sexually
    active, it isn't terribly early -- one of my daughter's friends is
    sleeping around since she was 12.  Most of the others, boys and
    girls alike, are still virgin.  (according to Kat's best guess,
    anyway...)
    
    --bonnie

    Please, I am not saying that it is a *good* thing to be sexually
    active at 16 - just that from all that I hear and have experienced  
    it is not early.    

    My point was merely that he should having a frank discussion with
    is son, whatever his feelings are on the subject - and the earlier
    the better.  

    The sleeping bag in the car may well not be the pointer to what you
    think it is ... but it brings an excellent opportunity to set up a
    good discussion of sex and girls and whatever with your son.
    
    It needs to be a well rounded full discussion, and if there are questions
    and things that come up that you aren't comfortable with, then go
    and buy some books on the subjects in question (yes ... even Joy of
    ... if need be) and both of you read it!  Do everything you can to
    ensure your chats are non-confrontational and that you are sensitive
    to his cues on when he's had enough.  Make sure you don't "lecture"
    to him but still get over as much as you can.
    
    There are two things I'd be very careful about ...
    
    One is church and religious values ... unless he does have religious
    feelings, then a church biased discussion could sound like a sermon
    and be ignored.  By all means, tell him of the traditional and
    religious values relating to sex and marriage etc but tread
    sensitively.
    
    The other is to focus unduly of the negative aspects, such as AIDS
    and other STDs.  Just make sure he understands that "it can't happen
    to me" attitudes don't cut it.  Scare tactics don't seem to be
    particularly effective anyway.  On the other hand you could scare
    him to the point of having hang-ups anyway.
    
    Finally I guess, make sure he understands the primary purpose and the
    fact that it's usually pleasurable is no side effect ... how else
    would we populate this earth!
    
    One important thing that you may find in all this is that you are
    likely to even question your own values.  You may find you have
    your own taboos that you end up wondering why they are taboos ?
    Not only is this likely to be a learning experience for your son,
    it could well be a learning experience for the parents too.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Stuart

   re: .8 and .9
   
   Points well taken.  I apologize, I had read more into your original
   comment than was there.  Approving of an action and simply
   acknowledging its existance are, as you well stated, entirely
   different.
   
   Now, back to our regularly scheduled note....
   
   - Tom
   

    To .1,  Seeing a sleeping bag + pillow  with the back seat folded down
    in my son's car the morning after a date? I don't see how the thought
    would NOT cross one's mind.
    
     Anyway, I simply asked him ( in a light tone..) " What's with the
    sleeping bag + pillow, you trying to make me nervous?" I smiled, he
    laughed. And explained that a friend got out of work 2 hours earlier
    than him, and sleeps a couple hours while waiting for a ride home.
    
    We have talked a few times in the past about sexual responsibility
    and stuff....   For now, I'll give him the benefit of dought. And 
    accept his answer.
    
     Thanks for all your replies....
    
    Jack
    

     <<< Note 77.12 by 2CRAZY::FLATHERS "Be Kind...I have teenagers..." >>>
                           -< we talked last night >-

>>    To .1,  Seeing a sleeping bag + pillow  with the back seat folded down
>>    in my son's car the morning after a date? I don't see how the thought
>>    would NOT cross one's mind.

I didn't mean it to sound like it wouldn't, just that it might not be the
only thought that would cross my mind.  I imagine I would probably think
the same thing, just might also consider other possibilities.

In any case, sounds like you approached it the right way and got the
answer you were looking for!

Liz

    re: .0
    
    I guess this is a little late, but my first thought after reading
    your note was that someone might be sleeping in the car.  Years
    ago one of my sisters had a boyfriend whose parents kicked him
    out of the house when he turned 18 (nice birthday present).  He
    had no place to stay so my sister let him sleep in my mother's
    car - a Ford LTD land barge so there was plenty of room.  I
    would have bet that your son was helping a friend who needed a
    place to stay.

    I asked Kat what her reaction would be and she laughed at the idea
    they would bother with a pillow if they were going to have sex.
    
    --bonnie

Some of these replies, combined with the context of the base note remind me of 
a letter I saw somewhere -- I think it was Ann Landers -- several years ago.  
The gist of the letter was that parents shouldn't use the term "sleep with" as 
a euphemism for "having sexual intercourse with".  

As a teenager, the woman had been admonished about the dangers of "sleeping 
with" boys.  She came from a poor family, as did her boyfriend.  In order to 
help support the family, the boyfriend worked two full time jobs.  Sometimes 
on dates, he would be so tired that he would fall asleep in the car.  The 
poor girl was afraid she would get pregnant as a result of her boyfriend 
falling asleep.

If you think about it, working two jobs and falling asleep on dates is 
probably a good way of _preventing_ preganancy.

Clay

If I were a teenager and I was going to have sex in my car, I certainly
wouldn't leave any evidence around for my parents to see.  So, it is
a good bet that you can believe your son.

-Amy