Conference moira::parenting_v3

    My opinion:
    
    I'd enroll him in kindergarten and not say anything at this point.
    You can choose to tell the teachers in September if you feel it is
    necessary.  Also, you can choose to not send him if you feel that is
    what is required as well,  Enrolling him and waiting to see how he's
    doing at the end of the summer leaves all your options open.
    
    Kathy
    

    Lyn,
    
    You should go ahead and enroll him for kindergarten.  The schools
    do their own testing anyway.  If they find anything, they'll probably
    recommend some sort of "Special Needs" program.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    Peggy
    

    What I neglected to mention in my base note it that I am fearful of a
    lifetime label.  I DON'T want him labeled as "learning disabled", when
    he may no longer be, or maybe never was(?).  A close friend of ours, in
    the same town, has a son in a partial Special Ed program (title I) and
    while he was achieving an A or B in class work, his teacher "refused"
    to give him the grades he earned and deserved.  The teacher said she
    "just couldn't do that because he is a special needs student".  The
    result of that was a frustrated, hostile child.  The apeals of the
    parents to the school administrators achieved no corrective actions.
    Of course this was a boy who was in the third grade at the time, and
    the home situation was not the best, so the boy's self esteem was
    destroyed by all of this.
    
    I guess part of the problem is ME, I just don't want him to start
    school with a strike against him.
    
    Lyn

    Well Lyn, this is just my opinion but I wouldn't say a thing.  Most
    school systems I know of do pre-screening and if it is a big problem
    they may find it.  My sister has been having an ongoing BATTLE with her
    childrens school district.  Her oldest son was put into a program for
    students who need extra help with one or two subjects...chapter
    something-or-other?? but as soon as the next two kids hit that school
    they were put into this program also.  When she asked why Amy was in
    the program since she was doing fine in school the only answer they
    could come up with was because her older son was in it.  She flipped!!
    It's taken her two school years to straighten this one out.
    
    Marie 

Seems like you're damned if you do (child could be labeled and this could be
carried through many years of schooling) ... and damned if you don't (perhaps
the school administrator could "match" AJ with a special teacher or get him
involved in some special projects/programs).

When Jim/I were pursuing adopting "sibling groupings", our social worker 
HEAVILY advised us (many times) NOT to tell the school district anything more
than it ABSOLUTELY needs to know.  I believe she would only mention behavioral
problems IF the child was being medicated (Ridalin?) ... and nothing short
of that.  She said she saw too many cases where the children got branded vs.
helped. 

Jim/I were able to adopt a newborn ... so we didn't pursue older
children, however, it really broke our hearts to think that the school system
couldn't accomodate and help a child who might need a little more attention
or patience.

I know it's a tough call, because teachers do have to keep some control
and meete certain academic goals to be "effective" ... and not make
allowances which have a negative impact on the other children ... BUT, what
about the "other" children ...

So again ... it's a round-robin situation.

Perhaps your therapist could give you some guidance here (since s/he is more
involved with AJ's condition, improvements, prognosis).

I'd definately pursue the kindergarten preregistration ... but hold off on
saying anything about AJ's behavior ... there's no reason for them to know
"at this time" anyway!  I'd probably wait and see what September brings ...
and like you said, AJ may make GREAT strides in the next 8 months.

Good luck ... and God Bless.

Dottie

    
    As a school committee member I am constantly battling the type of
    "program perceptions" that horror stories like the last few express.
    
    While these types of scenarios turn off parents you must consider what
    is best for your child. If you believe that your child needs services
    because of ADHD then you should fight for those services with the
    school dept. Never fight alone. Bring in SPEd advocates, talk to the
    PAC people (every school must have a Parent Advisory Council for
    SPED families) and see if they can help, and NEVER assume that because
    one level of management doesn't listen that the next won't too. You
    have lots of options above the teacher. You have the principal, the
    SPED director (although not all schools have one), you have the
    superintendent. You can take your case to the state level if you don't
    feel your needs are being addressed. My only caution is that you be
    positive that it is what's in your child's best interest and that you
    be reasonable (unreasonable = the parent who asked the school to pay
    for a child's gymnastics class as an outlet for fine motor skills).
    Labeling is becoming less of a problem as more and more mainstreaming
    is going on. In my district we are working with team teachers (1 SPED,
    1 regular) and these kids don't even know who's SPED and who isn't.
    FWIW, it's also made both teachers more aware of what the other goes
    through.
    

Yes, the danger of his being "singled out" is there.

But IMO, there are more serious dangers by NOT telling the school.

I guess it all comes down to whether you trust the school system or not.  

To me, a danger more serious than a teacher seeing "normal boy" behavior and
attributing it to ADHD is the danger of a teacher labeling a kid as
"disruptive" or the like, without any explanation.  If there is no apparent
reason for the disruptive behavior, the teacher may assume all sorts of
things, such as the behavior results from an unstable home life, abuse, or
neglect.  In addition, a "disruptive" label is very, very, difficult to shed
(talk about a teacher seeing behavior that isn't really there!).  At least
ADHD is a diagnosis made by a trained person, while "disruptive" is entirely
subjective.  

My son had a disruptive kid in his class.  I'm not qualified to diagnose, nor
did I observe the kid personally, but his behavior sure sounded ADHDish.  The
school treated him as a discipline problem, which turned out to be a totally
ineffective (and quite possibly harmful) approach.  

It's also important to realize that ADHD behavior tends to be worse in school
than at home.  At home you can control the environment -- for example,
provide a quiet place, free from distractions, for the child to play or work. 
This is nearly impossible at school.  

Also, one very common procedure in monitoring the efficacy of ADHD
treatments, both medications and behavior management techniques, is to give
a questionnaire to the teacher.  So you may end up having to tell the teacher
anyway, or do without very valuable feedback.

With our daughter, we told the school about her ADHD even though they had
never indicated that they thought anything whatsoever was wrong with her. 
We've seen no indication that it has been negatively affected the way any of
her teachers view her; if fact it's been advantageous at times.

I suggest asking your doctor's (or psychologist's) opinion on two things. 
(1) Whether it is appropriate at all for AJ to start school, and (2) how much
to tell the school administration.   The doctor may have some experience with
the school that AJ would attend.  I'd also suggest asking around about the
school -- one good place to start is the Parents' group you attend.  See if
someone has any experience either telling the school or not telling the
school about an ADHD diagnosis.  Also, ask their opinion of what resources,
if any, the school has, and if there is a teacher that would be best for your
son.

Best of luck.  This one ain't easy.

Clay

    I went through something similar recently.  When my son was in
    kindergarten,  he had a hard time sitting still and controlling himelf.
    He was in a very structured, all day, Catholic school with about 30
    kids in the class.  The school system had him evaluated, diagnosed mild 
    ADHD and we enrolled him in a special needs class mid year.  They 
    recommended keeping him in special needs for first grade.  I had moved 
    from Marlboro to Westboro over the summer but the two districts work in 
    collaboration so he stayed in the program.  He did well, tested high but 
    wasn't real happy in the class.
    
    They recommended he stay in the program for second grade.  Over the
    summer I thought alot about it and decided to enroll him in the regular
    second grade class in Westboro.  This was hard for me to do, but I
    thought it was also important that he be with the kids he'd be playing
    summer sports with, or be in cub scouts with.  My pedi agreed that we'd
    wait a month, see how he was doing and maybe try medication.   
    
    Well, he is doing great in second grade, no medication at all.  He has
    a wonderful teacher and loves school.  He still has days when he has a 
    hard time paying attention but he is learning to control himself. 
    This has come about with no behavior program at all.
    
    My opinion is that kids mature at different levels.  Yes, I do believe
    that there are legitimate cases of ADHD.  I also think there are
    different levels of severity.  But I also believe kids are kids and
    people sometimes expect too much from them.  
    
    When my son was going through all the testing for ADHD my pedi
    recommended a book called "Your hyperactive child" by Barbara
    Ingersoll.  Inn it she said something very interesting.  Alot of the
    negative behavior associated with ADHD is looked at positively in 
    adults.  The ability to switch from one project to another and things
    like that.
    
    Hope this isn't too long winded.  It just that I've seen my unhappy
    little boy change into a kid who actually said two weeks ago, "I can't
    wait till vacation is over because I miss school!"
    
    joan

    just another reason why I think our school system should be changed. 
    Not to proceed everyone to the next grade based on age.
    
    cindy

    
    I'll add to that: 
    
    Unless the child is so far out of control as to be disruptive they
    shouldn't be in a seperate classroom. SPED children, especially at
    young ages, need to mainstreamed with their peers. We need to take
    a team approach to these kids and have both SPED and regular ed
    teachers in the classroom working with kids. 
    
    

    
    RE: grade/age level
    
    Grade levels are based on the average ability of kids. If we stop
    assuming certain break even points then grade levels will disappear.
    In Holliston we run a public Montessorri program for our elementary
    level kids (3-6 year olds, 6-9 year olds, and a transitional group
    of 9-10 year olds that is at the 4th grade level) and we have a 
    combination class of Kindergarten and first graders in our French
    immersion program. The largest problem with combined classrooms is
    parental interference. Parents of older kids fear their children
    will be associated by their peers with the younger set. Parents
    of younger kids fear their kids "growing up" too fast. We've chosen
    to do these things gradually and have begun them on a volunteer basis.
    They are working. We have also begun experimenting with changes in
    the assessment of progress. Instead of traditional grades we are using
    a portfolio assessment process at our elementary level.
    
    

    re.-1
    That seems like such a great idea!  I'd like to see more of this.
    
    cindy

    
    Re: .10
    
    I totally disagree with your statement that SPED kids must be
    mainstreamed with their peers at an early age. It's not that I disagree
    with mainstreaming, it's that I disagree with the term 'MUST'.
    
    Mainstreaming a SPED child MUST be done on an individual basis, period.
    It is not uncommon for a SPED child to be more productive in a SPED
    environment, and to fail in the mainstreamed environment.
    
    One child at a time, at the pace of the child.
    
    
    Chris

    
    RE: .13
    
    Nowhere in my note did I use the word MUST. There are certainly, and I
    did note one, some exceptions. Taken in the context of mild ADHD there
    is absolutely no reason to stigmatize this child by seperating him/her
    from their peers. As I have said before, the least disruptive learning
    environment for the child is the correct one. BTW, I speak from
    experience.
      

    I need some clarification on this, give a conversation I had with the
    superintendant of schools last night.  He was calling to remind me that
    the period for kindegarten enrollment had passed and we had not yet
    acted.  First (dumb) question, is kindegarten required by law, or can
    we opt to keep him in his current preschool until he starts first
    grade?  Second, the super seemed to imply that "where" he ends up
    enrolled (be it regular classes or SPED) is something which results
    from testing done by the public school itself.  Oh by the way he seemed
    to act like I was from MARS when I informed him that unless he could
    accomodate *MY* work schedule that testing would not take place.  He
    told me that all the "morning testing appointments" were taken, and I
    would *have* to come at 1-something some afternoon, which means I loose
    a day's pay to accomodate the school's schedule.  I basically told him
    that I have had him tested privately, because the school's testing
    seemed inadequate, and to put me on the wait list for a morning
    apointment.  What do they expect parents to do, loose a day's pay so a
    teacher won't miss a lunch?
    
    Has anyone out there had any real experiences with the school exchange
    program?  Someone my husband works with said they were told there was a
    9-month wait to exchange within towns.  In this case it was a Maynard
    resident who wanted to enroll his children in Acton.  I would be
    exchanging our Oxford residency or either Westboro or Northboro.  In
    this case would the other town do the testing, or do I do the testing in
    our town, and just give the exchanging town the results?
    
    I'm just sooooo confused!!
    lyn

Lyn:

I looked into alternate schooling when I found out that Shrewsbury would
not even test Juli because her birthday was "one day late" from the cutoff
date!

Jim/I planned on sending Juli to a private accredited kindergarten, but we
wanted to transition her into Shrewsbury's public school system for first
grade. Shrewsbury said "no"!  (because of her birthdate)  I researched some
more and found that we would have to:

	.  pay private first grade and transition her into public school
	   for second grade (no birthdate requirements); or

	.  have her pre-tested for kindergarten or 1st grade in Northboro

I spoke to an absolutely WONDERFUL elementary administrator in Northboro.
(Don't remember his name.)  He was extremely supportive and basically came
across like he wanted "us, the parents" to tell him what "our needs" were
and he would try his best to accomodate US!  At that time (before Weld
started the Exchange Program), he said we would have to pay the public school
tuition and provide transportation (be available to pick up if school closed
due to storms, half-days, etc. -- or line up a designated daycare provider) --
but if Juli passed the pre-test, her birthdate would NOT hold her back!

When Jim/I weighed out the pros/cons of doing 1/2 day kindergarten and
1/2 day daycare, we decided to just go with the fulltime private kindergarten
program  (and put Juli's name on two private school lists -- because (on 
average!), there's a 2-year waiting period for private school enrollments
(or so there was before the recession!)).

Needless to say, it doesn't look like we'll pursue Northboro (kindergarten),
but we MIGHT VERY LIKELY pursue it for 1st grade.

So I'd definately talk with a Northboro Elementary School administrator
(hopefully you'll get the fellow who talked with me!).

Lyn, somehow I sense that you're still worried about how AJ might react to
another change in his daycare/school environment, compounded by his ADD (sp?)
situation.  Talk to some who's understanding and suppportive ... and do call
Northboro.  And call me if I can be of any assistance ... or even just a 
shoulder to lean on.

Good luck ... and God Bless.

Dottie

    
    Re: Mike G.
    
    I apologize for misquoting you, it was the word 'need' I objected to,
    not 'must'. Otherwise, I stand by my statement. Mainstreaming is an
    option, not a requirement. As a school committee member, you know how
    the law reads, 'least restrictive environment', *whatever* that
    environment may be. Let's just agree to disagree on this.
    
    Chris
    
    

    
    The Law rgarding Kindergarten is vague. The legislature established 
    Kindergarten programs in the late 60's as a mandate. All school systems
    had to have K programs in place by the 73/74 school year. The current
    regulations say all children shall attend school by September of the
    calendar year they turn 6 but also give the local school committe power
    to set a lower age. 
    
    If Northboro schools are participating in the School Choice program
    then that may be an option for you. However, they may not be. If they
    are not then they are not allowed to take new students on a private pay
    basis. 
    
    I know the Superintendent in Shrewsbury, Jack Collins, and he's
    certainly not an unreasonable man. He must live within the rules
    set forth by the committee though. Most schools give ample notice
    for Kindergarten screening. It appears to me that since you chose
    not to participate until this time that you really can't gripe about
    his inability to accomodate one individual when he must make reasonable
    accomodations for some 200-250 families.
    
     

I called the Shrewsbury Elementary Principal's office (not sure if this is
your friend's office or not) and was FLAT-OUT TOLD that if Juli did NOT
turn 5 before September 1st, she would not be allowed to participate in the
testing (to even determine if she's ready for kindergarten!).

I called two private schools in Shrewsbury and both Administrators told me
that Shrewsbury is VERY RIGID about the birthdate -- they won't even test a
child, they go by birthdate FIRST.  One Administrator knew of a child
who was born on September 1st, very advanced, gifted and READY for kindergarten
and they refused to test her and refused to let her enter public school until
second grade!  (So even if she completed a full year of private kindergarten
and passed with flying colors, she still would be railroaded until 2nd grade!)

When I talked to the Northboro Elementary School Administrator, he was
extremely helpful, fair and wanted what was best for the parents/child, NOT
what was best for the school administration!  That came across loud and clear.
He said "let's test your child ... and then go from there.  If she's ready for
school, why hold her back?  Definately NOT because of a birthdate!"

If your friend wants to contact me, I'd appreciate discussing this.  But from
the many contacts I've made and numerous parents/teachers I've talked to
(including a head instructor at Juli's learning center who also lives in
Shrewsbury and has been up against this) ... I don't expect Shrewsbury to bend
any UNLESS Weld's Exchange Program costs Shrewsbury $$'s for kids to attend 
adjacent towns' kindergartens because Shrewsbury is hung-up on a birthdate.

And if Juli attends Northboro due to a birthdate issue, I will DEFINATELY
pursue cross-charging the tuition back to Shrewsbury!

Dottie

    
    If Northboro is participating in School Choice then you won't have to
    pursue anything. Northboro will report that your child is attending
    school there and that you are a resident of Shrewsbury. Shrewsbury
    will then lose the appropriate amount from their state aid. 
    
    Let me correct a couple of apparent misconceptions from my note.
    I don't doubt what you were told by the Elementary Principal in
    Shrewsbury. There are many school systems that are very rigid about the
    dates. They aren't that way because it provides them with any kind of
    advantage. They do it because there has to be a cutoff somewhere and
    they know there will always be some trying to push the line. Don't
    blame the principal. He didn't make the policy and in fact he probably
    didn't even recommend it. Jack Collins is the Superintendent of Schools
    in Shrewsbury. I know him but he's not someone I would categorize as a
    friend because I don't him that well. I've said it before and I'll say
    it again. There is a "chain of command" that needs to be taken but the
    ultimate responsibility for policy belongs to the School Committee. If
    you don't like what the Principal says then you go to the
    Superintendent. If you don't get satisfaction then you start calling 
    School Committee members IF it is a matter of policy.  BTW, I also 
    know the Asst. Superintendent in Northboro/Southboro, Perry Davis,
    well. In fact, our search committee will be interviewing Perry next
    Tuesday for the job of Superintendent in Holliston.