Conference moira::parenting_v3

    At the risk of de-railing this topic, I will put the follow-up to
    my previous note here.
    
    Still concerned about the lack of movement, I finally took the 
    better-be-safe-than-sorry appoach and called the doc. She sent me
    to the hospital and met me there. Since they were having trouble 
    locating the heartbeat with the fetal monitor, she managed to elbow
    me into the ultrasound room for a look.
    
    It revealed a perfectly formed 8 month baby boy without a heartbeat.
    
    The OB said that the hospital's stats are 1 in 400 that this should
    happen at 7.5 months. More; they want me to deliver naturally in 
    order to preserve my health. Looks like the heart stopped within
    the last 48 hours -- my body doesn't seem to know that there is
    trouble yet, though the doc said that the cervix is closed but 
    softening up. 
    
    I am not sure what I am in for, whether this kind of delivery will
    be harder or easier, and whether recovery will be different. 
    
    I'm just kind of lost right now....
    
    Monica
    

    Dear Monica,
    
         I am so sorry to read your sad news.  
    
    	 Please know that you and your family are in my
         thoughts and prayers.
    
    Jodi-who_feels_very_sad_today...
    
    

    Oh my goodness, Monica.   I am so very sorry for you and your
    family.   Please take care.   Carol

    I am aching for you.  My thoughts will be with you during this very
    difficult time.
    
    Words just don't seem adequate right now.
    
    judy

    Monica,
    
    I wish I had some magical words to take away your pain.  My thoughts
    are also with you.  Please take the time to take care of yourself.
    
    -Joy
    

    Monica,
    
    My heart goes out to you, too.  God, I can only imagine the kind of
    "lost" feeling you expressed.  My suggestion - get in touch with a
    support person/group-- through the doctor/hospital/clergyperson or EAP. 
    This feels like something that you shouldn't go through alone.
    
    I wish I could hug you...

    Monica,
    
    My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine what you are going through
    right now.
    
    keep in touch with us and let us know how you are doing.
    
    Norma

    Monica,
    
    How profoundly sad.  I too can barely imagine how you must feel, and I
    think it was terribly strong of you to be able to keep us apprised as
    this nightmare unfolded--thank you for sharing it, and be very very
    good to yourself.
    
    Leslie

    I'm very sorry also.  This must be extremely painful for you. 
    
    I'm wondering about one comment you made - that the dr. wants you to
    deliver naturally for your health.  I don't understand how delivering
    vaginally is better for your _physical_ health (maybe someone can
    explain) but I am certain that continuing to carry the baby for
    another month, then going through labor and delivery, is bad for your
    _mental_ health.  Is there some reason they can't deliver the baby now
    by c-section?

    I have no direct experience with this...but my sister-in-law was in a
    similar situation.
    
    The doctors like to wait to see if you go into labor by yourself.  If
    you don't they then induce.  I haven't heard that they automatically do
    a c-section.  
    
    My sister-in-law had to wait for about a week and then did go into
    labor without being induced.
    
    It was very hard on everyone, but especially her.
    
    judy

    Many thanks for all your replies and mail messages -- its been quite a
    24 hours. I don't think I've fallen apart, but can't go one or two
    hours without bursting into tears. 
    
    The medical update (I went to see the doc again today) is that the body
    should recognize the fetal death and react by starting labour by about
    2 weeks on the outside. In the meanwhile, I've had more blood tests,
    and the doc said I could either expect the onset of labour, possibly
    with some blood, or fever as a reaction that is similar to toxic shock.
    She expects labour and delivery to be reasonably normal; but while 
    she suggested holding as a possible help for the pain, I gave my
    concerns as to whether at that time the fetus will be still as a baby
    would be. She agreed that we can only wait and see.
    
    I myself at first expected that they would just do a c-section then
    and there, but the resident senior OB told me that they'd like to
    avoid surgery on the uterus in the best interests of my ability to
    carry again. 
    
    Thanks again for helping me with this, all your thoughts are
    deeply appreciated. 
    
    Monica
    

    BTW, if nothing occurs by the 22nd, they induce. The doc said that if
    I cannot take the waiting anymore before that time, she will still try
    to arrange something for me.
    

    I am so very sorry.  My thoughts are with you in your time of grief.
    
    Marie
    

    I am sorry to hear your news--it is one of the saddest things that
    can happen.
    
    The doctors may suggest you hold and "say good-bye" to the baby.
    It may sound wierd, but based on our experience, it is the right
    thing to do.
    			-John Bishop

    Monica-
    
    I've sent you my thoughts off-line, but briefly I too have been there,
    loosing our daughter Stacy two days before her due date, due to the
    loss of amniotic fluid, (a "cord accident" they called it).  It has to
    be the worst imaginable feeling, and for me all I wanted to do was get
    this "thing" out of my body right then and there.
    
    My doctor was sensitive to my feelings and did induce me with
    Prostaglanden suppositories the very next morning.  Also fortunate for
    me the labor and delivery was quite easy.
    
    I still cry on her birthday, 5+years later, and cry for you now.
    You'll be in our thoughts and prayers!
    Lyn

Monica, I just read your notes.  I'm crying.  I'm so, so sorry.

Many, gentle hugs to you and your husband.

      With love,

          Carol

    
    Please accept my husband and my sincerest thoughts. I have cried
    several times since reading your note, and hope that you and your
    family will be able to get through the next few difficult weeks/months
    with an even stronger bond.
    
    Please let us know how you are doing - we all care in the Parenting
    community.
    
    
    Leeann 

    Called the Doc this morning and we updated one another on things --
    still no change in me except my husband thinks I am carrying a little
    lower. 
    Doctor said that the senior OB at the hospital has agreed to try a 
    gentler method than the pictocin -- the method Lyn mentioned to me in
    her letter -- that of trying to soften the cervix up to get things
    going. This will occur on Sunday (and here I was getting so mentally 
    prepared to spend another week waiting!). If things have not progressed
    after that, home I go again to wait for the regular method on Friday, 
    although my chances of going into labour naturally will have increased.
    
    Thanks again for all the support we've been getting; your experiences
    and suggestions have really helped us get a better picture of the
    situation and our options. I'll let you know what happens
    
    Monica & Alan 

    Re .16
    
    Sorry to have heard that bit of news about your baby.  
    
    God be with you and your husband during this difficult period. 
    
    
    So Long...

Well, everything has been done.

Everyone from the nurses and doctors in the hospital to the parenting 
community has been so wonderful to us, I don't know what we'd have done
without you. If you are interested, the following is an account of what
happened after we arrived Sunday morning. 

By 8:30 we were in the case room (the wing of the hospital set aside for
labour and delivery) and they ushered us into a labour room (much like a 
regular hospital room, but with supply shelves, its own bathroom and 
the proper equipment one might need to help things along) This one, unlike
the others I'd seen, had a single bed.  My doctor, (Dr. T)  a young woman 
in her mid 30's, arrived shortly after I'd changed into my gown and hopped into
the bed. She was followed by Dr. C., the senior OB on Duty, a caring and 
incredibly busy guy, who seemed never to go home and sleep. Dr. C. did an
examination and administered, in gel form, the prostaglanden (sp?) in and
around the cervix. This hormone was supposed to further soften and dilate
the cervix, with the hope that contractions would soon follow. No sooner had
Dr.C. left when I started feeling what seemed to be tremendous gas pains. We
summoned the nurse (I later learned that the Senior nurse of each shift had
been put in charge of our case) who confirmed the contractions had started.

The contractions came for hours, in periods of 2 to 5 minutes, and resembled
more heavy menstral cramps than anything else. They were not horrendous, and
we knew that the doctors said that if we don't get a lot of action out of this,
I'd be sent home and Pitocin would be tried the following Friday. So, I
opted for putting up with this without an epidural, since these pains were
endurable. During this time the nurse did examinations (ah, 2 cm dilation!)
and lots and lots of blood pressure checking, as well as a blood work taken
early on. 

At about 2:30 pm, Dr.C came in and did another exam, seemed to be fairly happy
(The nurse said that they would have preferred that I was screaming to high
heaven at this point -- she WAS joking -- but that some dilation was better
than nothing). He gave me another dose of the Prostaglanden.

More of the same until about 8 pm (they had graciously fed not only myself
but Alan, who they had snuck the trays in for), Dr. C. once more checked and
decided to start the Pitocin IV. He also attempted to break the water, but 
found the sac too high up still. Since the ward was incredibly busy that 
evening, we had to wait until the night shift head nurse had enough time to
supervise the pitocin (she said I had to be monitored to make sure I had
no adverse reaction -- especially since I had already recieved 2 doses of the
other hormone).

at 11:30pm, The IV went in and the pitocin started. There was not much 
change immediately, but the nurse came in several times (every 20 minutes or
so) and upped the concentration through to the drip. 

By 7 in the morning, Dr. C. had returned (he had not left the ward, but
Dr. T had managed to get some sleep since she lives around the corner), and
with the help of his over-sized crochet hook, he broke the sac and declared
me officially in labour (gees, I said to Alan, what did he call the pain I
experienced in the last 24 hours??!?).

Things did pick up by then, and by 10 am, The nurse, Chris, agreed that I
could have the epidural. The procedure went smoothly the first time, but 
he accidentally hit a blood vessel and had to start over. The second time
it HURT. For the first time in all this poor Alan was feeling faint. (it was
that big needle...he said). Chris noticed this as immediately got him a tray
for lunch. Eat this and take a nap she told him.

It was kind of neat feeling everything numb and tingling below the waist, but
having lain in bed for so long was making my hips ache. Chris brought in the 
monitor to check the contractions, and Alan timed them, but they had to
re-calibrate often, as I needed frequent turning over. 

The dose for the epidural was topped off a few times, but Chris always checked
by progress before she did it ("Alan, why can't she do this AFTER the freezing
and not before?"). In the afternoon I started to feel tremendous rectal pressure
at each contraction, something the epidural was not masking at all. 

The contractions were only regular for a set amount of time, and then they
would stop for a longer period then begin a new rhythm. I think the Chris was
annoyed by this, but it is one of the side effects I guess, of a labour started
from scratch by artifical means. 

Things progessed from there, Chris declared me fully dilated and called Dr.T.
in. She appeared with an intern (Alan decided he was the husband's backup in
case Alan fainted) and they prepared to do the delivery right in the labour
room. 

As most of you know the rest was as you all remember it -- lots of pain 
despite being on the epidural still -- but the damn contractions would be
as much as 15 to 45 seconds appart so that I had to wait what seemed an
eternity before the next couple of pushes. 

After the child was delivered and very inconspicuously carried away by
Chris, Dr.T held up the cord and looked at Alan and the intern and said:
"I think we know the reason here. Look at this knot." Sure enough, Alan
confirmed to me that the knot was very very tight, and as Dr.T. explained
it was the abnormally short cord that probably tightened it as the baby turned. 

Dr.T. had a great deal of trouble getting me to deliver the placenta.
After 1/2 an hour, she decided to call the senior OB on duty (not Dr. C.) and
get him to MANUALLY deliver the placenta. I asked if he has large hands, and 
the two doctors were non commital. They wheeled me into the delivery room,
leaving Alan behind, and prepared me (stirrups and all) for the OB's arrival.
Chris, who was back by then, noticed another contraction, and under the 
threat of another doctor's hands in my delicates, and the idea of surgery if
it ripped, I FINALLY delivered the placenta. It took over an hour. Finally,
Dr.T., very very happy that I did not have to have manual delivery take
place, checked me out, and stitched me up (one small rip in front which she
left alone, and a medium sized one in the back, which she took so long in
doing that I thought she was embroidering her initials into).

I was wheeled back into the labour room where Alan was waiting, already having
been informed that the placenta came out the easy way, and Chris gave us
the polaroid shot of the baby to let us decide if we wanted to see him.

At first I was still unsure, but Alan who had held me during the delivery,
said that I would not be upset by the condition of the body, as it was fully
formed. He was candid that the colour was a little dark, (something the 
picture did not accurately portray) but that it was okay. It had curly hair,
he said. And that's what convinced me.

They brought our little boy to us, Dr.T and Chris, and we held him, saw his
resemblence to Alan's paternal grandfather (we have a picture of him as a 
small boy), touched his skin and his hair and bid him good-bye - I remember
thinking how soft and cool his skin was when I kissed his forehead. 

Daniel LeRoy Barney, born 15:55 March 18, 5 lbs 14.5 oz, will be cremated 
and his ashes strewn around a tree planted in his honour, on the land that
his paternal grandmother's family has held for generations, up in the Gaspe
region of Quebec. 

My mom and dad are staying with us until I have recovered, and my physical
recovery is pretty average for post delivery. They kept me for 2 days in
the gyno ward, and I went home Thursday morning, the milk coming in that 
day. I was told just to bear the pain for about a week and it should
begin to diminish after that. 

We're doing okay under the circumstances, but I find my mind wandering all
the time, and a day isn't complete until I've had a good cry.

Thanks everyone for being 
so caring....

Monica
    

    
    
    Monica,
    
    My prayers are with you and Allan.  I'm glad that you were able to say
    good bye to Daniel.  I think you would always be wondering and
    something not quite complete if you didn't.  
    
    					Bless you.
    
    					Darlene

    Monica,
    
    There are no words to adequately express my sympathy for and your
    family.  My prayers are with you all and little Daniel.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    Monica,
    
    my heart aches for you and your family, and I cry as I write this note.
    You and Alan, and especially Daniel, will be in our prayers...
    
    Freddie

    Hi Monica,

    Now that I have regained my composure...

    As I was reading your last entry, I was thinking of how strong you are
    to be able to relive that moment all over again. Of course, you
    probably have and will relive it a thousand times over.

    My heart goes out to you and Alan. I can not imagine what you must be
    going through. I cried my eyes out, just reading your story. Actually,
    I was doing O.K., until you mentioned that you named the baby Daniel.

    I have a little Daniel, all of 5 1/2 months old. I kept imagining all
    the love and joy he has brought to Frank and I. I've been thinking of
    your situation lately and giving Daniel extra hugs and kisses. That
    somehow makes me feel better.

    I realize I'm just babbling here, as I am lost for words. I'm glad you
    took the chance to say good bye to Daniel. I don't know if I would be
    able to do so in your situation.

    Please, keep us informed on how you and Alan are getting along.
    I feel like I just lost something, myself, but I can't explain it.

    Norma

    
      Thanks for sharing your story with us Monica.  My heart goes out
      to you and your family and you are all in my prayers.
    
      Karin

    Monica, thank you for letting us know you are OK, at least physically
    that is.  We have, of course been in touch off-line, and had been
    wondering how you were holding up.
    
    I guess I can feel too your pain, since we've been through it ourselves
    when we lost our Stacy 5 years ago.  I'm glad to hear you were able to
    hold Daniel, that a very important part of saying good bye.  As the
    years progress the snapshot will become a very important part of your
    memories.  My mother inlaw requested I make copies of all three for her
    album.
    
    Now off to dry my eyes.
    Lyn
    

    Thanks again to everyone who sent me notes and to those who wrote here,
    you have been such help to us....
    
    A note: a week after the delivery we went back to see our doctor, and
    she said that she had had to revise her opinion on the cord length.
    Usually they just guess, and put "average" down on the form. Since
    there was a pile of reports to fill out in our case, she actually
    measured to cord and found it to be about average after all. So,
    our only culprit was the knot afterall.
    
    Its hard to say how I'm feeling now, part of me feels like the last 9 
    months happened to someone else, and part of me still has that strange
    instinct to go out and buy those things needed for baby.
    
    I'll be strong for hours, then something will trip me up. Last night
    we rented a movie and during the course of the plot one of the main
    characters gets pregnant and the others end up delivering the baby
    in a diner; well I was fine until the baby made a noise. Then it was
    like everything inside just came out at once! The force of those tears
    surprised both of us! I guess I'd been holding it in without knowing.
    
    Day after tomorrow we are seeing a counciller that my doctor strongly
    recommended we see; she is supposed to specialize in this sort of 
    situation. Depending on what we discuss and what is said, I will
    tentatively be back at work next week.
    
    A strange thought though, we bought our house and became owners a day
    before I concieved -- I've always been pregnant in this house. We moved
    into the new facility at work 6 weeks later; I've always been pregnant
    there too.....
    
    The more I think about and the more time goes by the harder it seems to
    become. I suppose the shock is wearing off......
    
    Monica
    

    
    Monica,
    
    Thank you for the update.  You have shown such incredible strength
    throughout this ordeal.
    
    As I was reading your note...the part 
    "I've always been pregnant in this house. We moved into the new facility 
    at work 6 weeks later; I've  always been pregnant there too.....", 
    all I could think was "You will be again!  Soon!".   I hope you don't 
    think this inappropriate, it is just the thought that ran through my 
    head.
    
    Best wishes as your family recovers,
    Carol   

Monica, lots and lots of hugs from Colorado Springs!

Liz

   (thanks Liz, hugs very appreciated)
    
>    all I could think was "You will be again!  Soon!".   I hope you don't 
>    think this inappropriate, it is just the thought that ran through my 
>    head.
    
    Gee, Carol, I certainly hope so! So much depends on proper physical
    recovery, then of course its the dice game of conception. Well, Alan
    is quite optimistic on this note; he seems to be confident that it will
    be as easy as the first time ;-)
    
    Monica

    Monica and Alan, I'm so sad to hear your news.  I share very deeply
    with you as we too shared a similar experience 19 years ago.  Our
    baby was fine by she died during delivery.  In those days they used
    lots of drugs to spare the pain and I believe that slowed her immensely
    from being delivered and the cord of life became the cord of death also
    when it prolasped between Cheryl Anne and myself.
    
    You will never forget but time does heal the pain you feel now.  You
    are very lucky to have people to talk with and counsellors.  None of
    that was available for us.  Make good use of it.  My husband saw our
    baby but they didn't take pictures or let us hold them in those days
    either.  That in itself made it feel unreal.
    
    Monica, God is with you.  Lean on him in this time of need.
    
    God bless you and your family.
    
    Mary

    Well, I am here, back at work finally. The Doctor wasn't quite sure
    about it, but I think that being home alone each day makes me think
    about it more, so I am going to trade stresses and get back on the
    phones to the customers and solve their software problems (I hope I 
    remember how .....)
    
    The counsellor was very good, and suggested all the things that I might
    be feeling (like absent mindedness -- thats a biggie with me) and as
    well suggested that while there is no reason we should be seeing here
    now again, she wants me to consider seeing her once I am pregnant
    again, as I agreed with her that I will be somewhat of a worrywort at
    that time. I was SO confident this last time and that's been shattered
    for good.
    
    She asked me if I think I hear a baby crying in the house, as sometimes
    grieving parents do. No, I said, I'd never heard Daniel cry, and so all
    I hear is silence....
    
    M.
    

    Monico,
    
    Please accept my condolences.  Maybe it is the best thing that you have
    returned to work.  Keeping busy will give you a few hours relief.
    
    I'm so sorry about all you have suffered through.  You sound like a
    very strong woman.  It takes strength to accept the support of others.
    
    May God bless you.
    Laura

Monica,

I was away when you lost your baby, and read your note late.  Your 
words and your pain touched me deeply.  Please accept belated thoughts 
and prayers and my deepest sympathy.  And welcome back to work.

Hugs,
Norma

Monica and Alan,
	I just read these notes and cried with much sadness.  I read a similar story
in a magazine about a year ago when I was pregnant and it scared me a lot then.  I am
praying for a swift physical recovery for you and then uneventful pregnancy and
joyous childbirth afterwards.  You two deserve it!

	Good luck.

Kyra

>A request to the moderators: All previous discussion of this is in
>597.16 to 597.51. since those replies seemed to have hijacked the discussion
>originally intended for that note (i.e. "feeling movement") I'd like
>to request that those replies be moved to this note. Thanks.

Monica,

I am happy to comply.  Note 597, which started out as another one of those 
"intersting bits of information" notes became one the most poignant string 
of notes that I can remember.  Surely, it deserves a note of its own; I 
thought about it at the time, and feel negligent that I never created a new 
topic for it.

If your note was, in part, to get an electronic shoulder to cry on, I hope it 
achieved that.

But whatever it meant for you, for us -- at least for me -- it was very 
touching.  It puts all the crush over end of the fiscal year in perspective, 
and reminds me how lucky I am to have two children that I am looking forward 
to going home to.

How very brave, kind, and caring it was for you to share your experience with 
us.

Clay Satow
co-moderator

    
    I was just reading through all of these replies the other day,
    remembering how I felt when I read those words at that time, and how
    reading them again, was still so sad. Then thinking of how when I see a
    note of yours in here, looking forward to concieving again, a positive
    attitude (I know it must be hard), I think of what a "strong" woman you
    are Monica. You totally amaze me. Although I know, from reading the
    first note to this topic, that its still with you, and its still hard
    for you...I must comend you for how far you've come. One of my biggest
    fears is what you have experienced with Daniel, I guess I've always
    been a pesimist (sp?), and a worry wart. This is my first pregnancy,
    and I have looked forward to having this child for a couple of years
    now. And I still can't seem to beleive its real. I keep telling people
    when they ask if I am excited, "I'll beleive it when I see it". I'm
    so afraid of all the complications that can arise. And I'm just not sure I 
    would be able to be as strong as you. I hope that if anything "was" to
    happen to this small child inside of me, that I could have 1/2 the
    strength and sanity that you have shown.  
    
    I wish you all the best for a happy future.  Daniel's "spot" sounds
    very beautiful...may he rest in peace, and stay in your hearts forever.
    
    Chris

    Hi Monica,
    
    Peace to you and Alan.  Here's to your getting pregnant again very
    soon.
    
    Mike

    Yes, it's been 3 months and some of the pain goes and new pain appears.  
    You sound like you are dealing with your loss very normally.  Keep
    talking about it.  Daniel will always be part of your life and part of
    your heart.  Don't be afraid to talk about him.  His spirit is all
    around you.  A beautiful rainbow over the tree where his ashes were
    just spread, oh what a beautiful spiritual experience.  Thank you God.
    
    You are doing fine. All your feelings and emotions are neither right
    nor wrong.  Remember, you are not responsible for your feelings only
    for how long you hold on to them.  Each month, week, day, hour, minute
    you feel something different.
    
    God bless.
    
    Hugs,
    Mary
    

 for all you ever-caring Gentlefolk,


        ........I am 
                   pregnant...............


Monica

(I believe I wish to cash-in those 
promises of prayer now....)

    

    
    
    Oh, CONGRATULATIONS, Monica!   Thank you for sharing your good 
    news with us.   This pregnancy couldn't have happened to better
    folks!   
    
    Fingers crossed,
    Carol

    Yes - congratulations !!!!  My prayers and best wishes are with you
    also. 
    
    -Joy
    

Monica,

Those of us in the Colorado Springs Customer Support Center wish you many
happy months and years!

Love and hugs,

Liz, Mary Jo, Joey, etc.!

    Congratulations Monica!  This news was a wonderful way to start
    my day!
    
    I am VERY happy for you!
    
    Best wishes and my prayers go out to you and your husband.
    
    Linda

    Oh Monica, That is wonderful news!
    
    From one who's been where you are, just stay calm and be assured that
    your doctor will keep REAL CLOSE tabs on the next 40 weeks!
    
    I am beaming for you!!
    Lyn

    
    Congratulations.
    I'm happy for you.
    
    Eva

<Those of us in the Colorado Springs Customer Support Center wish you many
<happy months and years!
<
<Love and hugs,

Me, too!  Me, too!

     Carol

    Best news today!!!
    
    I've got tears of joy running down my face.
    
    Jodi-

    This is *wonderful* news.
    
    I'm so very happy for you both!
    
    I'll keep you in my thoughts.
    
    judy

    Way to go!!!! We're very happy for you!
    
    Freddie (and Kathy and Nicholas)

    
    
    I'm new to the file, thus reading this note for the first time.
    I found myself crying tears of joy and sorrow for you at the same time
    
     Congratulations to you, Monica and Alan on your pregnancy!!
     The strength in your marriage must be immeasureable.
    
     Take care,
     Kathy
     (who will kiss Stephen,Matthew and Melissa a extra time tonight)

    Oh, Monica, how wonderful!  (How scary!)  I'm excited for you (though I
    imagine you are feeling plenty excited yourself)!

							cheryl

          Y     Y    EEEEEEE     SSSS     !!!    !!!
           Y   Y     E		S    S    !!!    !!!
    	    Y Y      E		SS	  !!!    !!!
    	     Y       EEEE	 SSSS	   !      !
             Y       E	            SS     !      !
             Y       E          S    S
             Y       EEEEEEE     SSSS      *      *
    
    
    I knew there was a reason for me to log on in the middle of the night! 
    Congratulations,
    
    Leslie

    
    Monica I am SO HAPPY for you and Alan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I was out 
    yesterday, and can't think of a better way to start my day than to hear
    of your news!!!!! 
    
    Congratulations!
    
    Chris
    :-)
    
    

    Wow! What cheer!
    
    (its a wonderful way to start a day -- getting all this loving
    attention!)

    I figure I am due about May 15th, so the news IS really new. (yes,
    Stuart, I will be telling my manager on Monday)

    Thanks all. 
    Its hard to figure-out what I am feeling now -- I expected that perhaps
    I wouldn't be feeling the outstanding joy I did last time, or that I
    may feel more distanced from the growing person within me.

    I am feeling a little of that, but also the surprise of a little bit of
    grief-echo. When we were through with the delivery in March, the event 
    moved into the past for us -- we found we could get on with our
    healing. Now, the events of the past have jumped up 'close and
    personal', because we are identifying a lot with the last pregnancy --
    surprising also, it seems to affecting Alan more than me. 

    I'm working hard to try and give this child the mental joy and
    attention it deserves, but experiences are hard to ignore, and my
    phyche doesn't want to be caught so unprepared like it was last time.
    Alan too is needing some time to warm to the idea, but he's catching
    on. The last week has been extraordinarily hectic for us, we sold our
    little 5yearold sports car (our only car) and just picked up a new
    family car. In the middle of  all this we wondered if I could be
    pregnant.

    By the way, Alan's being incredibly smug about all this -- his
    reputation seems to be intact -- both conceptions were "first attempt". 

    I'm find it difficult to say things like "when the child is born" now,
    since it seems unattainably far away. I'd be interested to hear
    opinions and like-experiences. 

    Monica
    

    Monica,
    
    Congratulations and best wishes.
    
    
    Bernie

    Monica,
    
    I logged in from being home with a sick child, and read your NEWS !!! I
    hope my little boy doesn't walk in - he may not understand that Mommy
    is crying because she is happy for the lady in the computer.....
    
    Try to relax (easy for me to say.....) We are all sending positive
    vibes your way !!
    
    Leeann
    

    
    
    This is such great news.. I started reading this conference right
    around the time of the sad news...  
    
    Anyways, my wife's Aunt worked with someone in a very similar situation
    as yours..  Well, to make a long story short, the couple in question
    did have a second pregnancy and had a very healthy child with no 
    complications the second time around..
    
    
    Here's to hoping for the same for you as they had...
    
    
    	John
    

    My best wishes and prayers are with you and Alan.  I'm soooooo happy
    for you.  Take care of yourself.
    
    HUGS,
    Mary
    

    Congratulations, Monica!  I ,too, am very happy for you...
    
    I thought my "similar" experience might encourage you.  Two years
    ago we lost our son, Stephen, shortly after his birth.  It was
    a real shock since he was almost full term (39 weeks) and I had an
    ultrasound a few weeks before and everything was OK.  We also had
    three healthy sons (then aged 3, 5, and 7) and expected everything
    to go smoothly like before...  Needless to say it was a difficult
    time for our family.  We drew alot of strength from God and our
    relationship to Jesus Christ.  He really gave us the peace and
    comfort we needed.  Friends and relatives were great too...
    
    Three months ago our daughter, Mindy was born.  She is healthy and
    strong and such a blessing!  But I have to admit that I was scared
    while I was carrying her...  I tried not to get too excited and I
    thought of all that could go wrong -- I think that was normal... It
    got more difficult as the due date approached.  My doctor during
    labor was wonderful (Dr. Robinson at Hitchcock Clinic) and she got
    me to talk about my anxiety (and cry a little too).  
    
    The pain of loosing Stephen will never go away and Mindy is in no
    way a replacement -- she is a totally separate life.  We love them
    both beyond words and cling to the hope of being with Stephen
    again one day.  But how wonderful it is to hold this new bundle
    of life and energy!!  I look forward to the day when you'll be
    holding your new blessing too!  Best wishes...
    
    Nancy

    Monica,
    
    I just read the WONDERFUL NEWS.  Congratulations, our prayers are with
    you.
    
    Angie, Ron, and Alicia

    I'm so tickled at all this great care I am getting from everybody.
    Makes me stronger.
    Right now this WONDERFUL NEWS is being tempered by the stomach flu for
    the last 2 days -- that coupled with the everyday morning nausea makes
    me definitely an unhappy camper. (I've definitely been a miserable 
    spouse to poor Alan....).
    
    Word of the week: "Blahhh".
    
    Monica, looking kind of green. 

    Monica,
    
    I tried to write to you dozens of times before, but each time I did, I
    cancelled it.  When you experienced your great lost I was pregnant too. 
    I didn't know what to say to you - I thought it was so unfair that my
    life was going on, and yours had such a void.  Everytime I read one of
    your replies I could sense a strength and a "specialness" about you
    that was real, that I wanted to be close to.
    
    Many times when I held my newborn, I thought of you and knew in my
    heart that you would one day be taking home your own beautiful, healthy
    child  I can't explain why, but I'm CERTAIN of it.  I prayed that soon
    I would read that you were pregnant again.  I, like many people I'm
    sure, have had my prayers answered!!!
    
    I am absolutely THRILLED for you and Alan!
    
    I read this today after getting the "package", and this has certainly
    lifted my spirits!!
    
    Please keep us posted... my husband is still at Digital and will follow
    this conference on my behalf!
    
    Warm hugs,
    Dale
    

    Thanks Dale, you've made me teary!
    
    As an update, I'm 8.5 weeks now, and already my pants are tightening
    around the waistline (the body KNOWS).
    
    Its still hard to know what we're feeling; very much the roller
    coaster for both of us, but we seem to be doing better now than a
    few weeks ago. 
    
    This event seems to bring the grief right back in front of us, and 
    we've basically had to deal with it all over again. Now, I feel
    somehow cheated out of the joy of expectations of the first child;
    being pleased at the pregnancy is tempered with "will I ever get
    there?" and "I will believe it when I see it".
    
    Too, I feel like I want to skip all of this and go directly to May.
    I've done all this in between stuff, I want to get on to the new
    (and the HAPPY) event of normal childbirth. I feel like this will
    be all uphill, no matter how normal this pregnancy might be.
    
    Its so nice to have all of you being my cheerleaders; It really
    helps.
    
    Monica
    (oh heck......a BABY!!)
    

The following note is entered by a noter who wishes to remain anonymous.  If 
you wish to reply to this noter by mail, please send to me, and I will forward 
it to the anonymous noter.  Your message will be forwarded with the mail 
header, unless you specify otherwise.

Clay Satow

******************************************************************************

    Hi Monica,

    How are you doing?  How are you feeling?  As it's been said here
    100 times, you are a very, very strong person.  My mother lost
    a baby 5 hours after delivery. I am being anonymous because one
    of my parents works at DEC and this is still, after 15 years a
    very sore and subject to talk about and would rather not open
    a wound for them by reading this.  Unfortunately, my mom wasn't as
    strong as you and had a breakdown.  I think what made things
    worse besides the loss of her baby was that the doctor told
    her right afterwards that she cannot have anymore children.
    My mother is one of 6 children and I believe always wanted
    a big family.  There's only 2 of us and she almost lost my
    brother who is now 16 years old (healthy and rebellious!).
    I'm so glad you and your family can talk about your loss,
    I wish I could say the same about mine.

    I am due in a few months and am very paranoid about the health
    and outcome of the baby mainly because of my mother's tragic
    experience (s). Even though my brother survived (thank God),
    my mother almost didn't make it.  She dropped down to 85lbs
    and delivered a 9lb 6oz baby.  My brother was very healthy
    but the whole thing took a lot out of her.  Just a couple
    of months later she got pregnant again and was just as sick
    and had bed rest for 9 mos and couldn't hold anything down.
    Unfortunately, she had lost the baby.

    I was very angry for years about the loss of my baby sister.
    I was 8 years old and was mad at God for taking her away
    from us and making my mother so sick.  Couldn't he see
    that my mother would give up her life for this little baby?
    Actually, it's only been a couple of years since I've realized
    that it was God's will and have accepted it.  I keep thinking
    that maybe she would have been brain damaged or maybe she
    would have died tragically later on in life and God decided
    to take her at birth than wait.  This may sound unreasonable
    for some but this is the only way I can understand.

    So if you have some days that you feel depressed, please
    believe and know that there are other people feeling the same
    pain as you and hopefully that can make you feel a little
    bit better knowing that you're not the only one.


    Congratulations on your pregnancy!  You and your husband must
    be so happy!

    Please stay in touch with us!
    God bless you and your family.

    To the anonymous noter:  this is probably difficult at best for you. 
    But, and this is important, you seemed to have finally accepted this
    tragic event in your life.  Medical science has progressed by leaps and
    bounds since your parents' loss, and all any one of us can hope for is
    that your pregnancy and delivery will be uneventful.
    
    I guess, though, those of us who have had a birth loss are aware that
    not all the anticipation of a newborn is joyful, it really becomes a
    sobering experience for all the parents to be.
    
    I just wish I could send you a big hug, and let you know that my
    thoughts are with you.  And to let you know that if you want to chat
    off-line (or by phone) I'm willing to help you out in whatever way I
    can.
    
    
    Hugs!
    Lyn

    I need some help with my own situation, for those of you who have been
    through this.  How do we tell AJ, who will be 5 Jan. 2, that he has a 
    sister, who was born but did not live.
    
    It is rapidly approaching the time of year that we remember Stacy with
    a plant, wreath or flower of her marker.  She is buried with her
    great-grandfather (my father inlaw's father).  He is not unfamiliar
    with the cemetery, since it is literally in my inlaw's backyard, their
    property ajoins it.  He frequently will walk or bikeride through the
    cemetery with my mother inlaw for an after dinner activity, when visiting 
    my inlaws.
    
    I know when the time comes he will have to know something, and I know
    it won't be a dry-eyed experience for me at least, but I wonder how to
    explain it.  I'm really at a loss for this one.  Stacy will always be
    special to us, she will always be our firstborn, and I know I will
    never get over her loss, just maybe get used to it.
    
    To those of you who have lost a child near birth, and gone on to have
    other children, or to those of you who may have been a sibling after a
    birth loss, how was it explained?  Is he old enough at nearly 5 to
    comprehend what we are saying?  Or do we continue to visit her on
    special days without him for a couple more years? What sort of
    questions do I anticipate?
    
    (Sniff) The holidays are always hardest for me.
    Lyn

    This is something that has also crossed my mind.
    If I succeed in having other children, when and what do I tell them
    about their oldest brother? 
           
    Monica

I recently saw a TV talk show (Sally Raphael?) where they had several
mothers (and one Dad) discuss stillborn births.

It was heart-wrenching, to say the least!!!  Both my Mom and I were
competing for the box of tissues.

They discussed how their doctors handled (... mishandled!) the situation,
the insensitivity of the hospital staff, how people say the worst things
(because no one understands just what a grieving mother needs to hear),
how the fathers withdrew into their own inner worlds at a time when their
wives needed them the most ... and even how it affected their children, too.
They talked about how they handled the services/funeral and anniversaries
and one mother read a short poem Grandpa had written.

My heart goes out to anyone who has experienced this ... God Bless You.

(sniff, sniff)
Dottie

I am one of 8 children who survived to adulthood.  My mother lost a full term
baby girl between me and my next younger sister.  They didn't have oxygen in
the delivery room and the baby suffocated.

I can't remember actually being told about my sister but we all somehow knew
about it, probably because my oldest sister was five at the time and there
was no way NOT to tell.

My brothers and sisters and I would often go to the enormous cemetary where
my sister is buried in the infants section and try to find the grave.  I can
remember as a child going to the cemetary with my mother and placing flowers 
on the graves of my uncle who was killed in the war, my grandmother, and
"girl Cate".  But none of these people seemed "real" to me.  I certainly did
not grieve nor understand the grief of my mother till much later.

It really hit me when I gave birth to my two sons in a foreign land far from
my mother and nearly lost the first one and nearly lost ME on the second.  I
felt this urgent need to talk to my mother about the baby she had lost and how
she felt and why it happened.  Only then, with my own baby lying near to me
could I understand how devastating this must have been to my mother.  Then I
grieved for my dead sister, dead for over 30 years.

ccb

    
>>They discussed how their doctors handled (... mishandled!) the situation,
>>the insensitivity of the hospital staff, how people say the worst things
>>(because no one understands just what a grieving mother needs to hear),
>>how the fathers withdrew into their own inner worlds at a time when their
>>wives needed them the most.
    
    As you've probably read in previous replies, I can safely say that
    I was lucky in that I had a caring doctor and wonderful nurses. I will
    never forget their part in our experience. 
    Mind you, I'm somewhat glad I didn't catch the show, I would have been
    torn between the need to identify, and the need not to have another
    grieving spell -- but thanks for talking about it.
    
    Monica
    
    

    
    I lost my first son at 6 1/2 months into my first pregnancy. My husband
    and I were both 18 years old. It was very trumatic for us both. It was
    two years before I got pregnant again and was scared the whole time. My
    husband reacted by staying away from me as much as possible. My mother
    lived 1200 miles away and I can remember sitting in the window crying
    for her. Unfortunately my older sister and her husband and child had
    been killed the year before so my mom was raising the two older
    children (5&6) and couldn't be with me. I don't remember what it was
    that I told my kids about James but I know they were aware of him at an
    early age. My son and daughter both used to say that they wished James 
    had lived so that they could have had an older brother. It has been 20
    years now and I still grieve for my little one. I also dream about him
    on occasion but now he is grown in my dreams. I also dream about my
    nephew who perished in the fire with my sister and brother in law. He
    is also an adult. The first time I dreamed about him I didn't recognize
    him until he said "Aunt Trudy, its me William"!! Very strange but I
    felt good when I woke up. My James I always recognize.
    
    Trudy

    Last week my aunt had given me some flowers from a special occation she
    had.  I inturn decided they belonged with our Stacy.  I decided, at
    least for now, to do this alone.  On Saturday I brought the flowers and
    put them on her grave.  I swore I was stong enough to do this, alone,
    and left the cemetary very upset.  I guess that if time heals, I'm not
    completely healed yet, 6.5 years later. I realize that just for the
    sake of not traumatizing AJ we will have to wait until I can handle
    cemetary visits a little more calmly.
    
    Any comments?
    Lyn

    That's how we've been feeling lately, appreciating each day, and
    battling with our hopes. 
    
    I'm starting to feel our child move, and we heard the heart beat for
    the first time the day before yesterday.
    
    I feel slightly traumatized. (and darnit! I should be insufferably
    pleased!) 
    
    We finally did decide to see the counciller (made an appointment for
    2 weeks hence) the final deciding factor was Alan showing signs
    of physical stress (he usually has a cast iron stomach, but Big Stress
    hits him there first: He complained last night of heartburn and
    nausea).
    
    My first ultrasound is in about 2 weeks as well. I'm somewhere between
    incredibly excited, and horribly frightened, depending on the day.
    
    Monica
    
    
    
    

        My mother lost my brother Walter 8 weeks after he was born.  He
    had a heart defect.  I was 18 months old when this happen and my sister
    was 3.  I don't remember exactly when they told us, but I always
    remember that we prayed for Walter every night before we went to bed.
    I remember my mother being very sad when she talked about him.
    I think it helped her to talk about him to us.  We also went and
    visited the grave when we were very young (3 or 4).  My mother never
    came to the cemetary with us though.  Years later I found a scrapbook
    in my mothers closet.  It had all of the cards and pictures of Walter
    that my Mom had saved.  It also had some beautiful letters people had
    written her when he died.  It wasn't until then that I realized what
    my parents had gone through.  I still think about him and wonder
    waht it would have been like to have a brother so close in age.
        Be sure you are ready to talk about it at length when you tell 
    your son.  I remember my sister and I were very curious and wanted
    to hear the story of our brother Walter in heaven over and over again.
    It must have been very hard for my parents to do this but it probably
    helped them in the long run.  My other had 2 more healthy children
    after Walter.
    
    				Mary

    
    I must admit, the ultrasound yesterday has heightened all our emotions,
    good and bad.
    He or she seems wonderfully active (there is movement, there is a 
    wonderful heart beat -- although Alan made himself nervous by
    trying to count heart chambers!).
    We had wanted to know the sex, but our wiggly baby wanted to keep
    it a surprise for now.
    Its right on the nose for size, and this time we even got two photos
    of him lounging. (They didn't give me any of Daniel at the hospital
    the first time I went for him -- I'd felt cheated up until now).
    
    Last week we went to the grief councillor and her advice was actually
    a kid of surprise.
    she said, do you remember what you considered the safest and most
    comforting location in the house when you were small -- like during
    a thunderstorm, or something that may have upset you? You need a place
    to hide for now, as you are bearing enough stress that is the kind
    of stress that cannot be solved or gotten rid of until the baby is
    born. She also said that we should be extra good to ourselves and give
    ourselves a break.
    Basically: Hide and pamper yourself!
    
    I admit this self-indulgent approach had not occured to me, and I
    don't in anyway feel deserving of it. Maybe that's why she suggested
    it.
    Well, I've been trying to give myself a break, but still feeling kind
    of guilty doing it. We still are very emotionally charged these
    days, Alan and I get pissed off or are really weepy at the smallest
    thing -- but in general, the ultrasound HAS proved positive.
    
    I wanna go back and have another one.....
    
    Monica,
    still with an 'it' baby

    Monica,
    
    I'm glad you finally got to "see" the baby.  If I were you, I'd want
    to be hooked up to the machine for the duration of my pregnancy!
    
    Maybe next time you can check out the "goods."
    
    Your counselor sounds like she is comforting.  I hope you can find the
    safe place that she recommends.
    
    judy 

    You've all been so wonderfully helpful, I thought I'd let you know how
    I am doing so far. I am now at 28 weeks.

    Physically: Doctor measured me 4 weeks ago and I am just the right
    size, she says. However, I think I have grown a lot; I'll be surprised
    if she  says the same next appointment which is in 3 days.

    This baby is by far more active than Daniel ever was. Its not that he
    didn't move much, but even at 33 weeks it was hard to see his kicks
    from the outside. Not so with this one! I am also carrying further in
    front.

    Last 2 ultrasounds (at 19 weeks and 25 weeks) revealed that the
    placenta is low; the 25 week one also revealed gallstones. So, I am
    having another in 5 days to check on the placenta. Both did not
    reveal the sex of the baby, something I am REALLY interested in
    knowing.

    I wonder if these factors, may increase my chances for being a
    candidate for C-Section.....The doc is telling me that for sure she
    will not let me go past the due date and hints at earlier induction. As
    another noter said, I feel my dreams of having the water break at home
    and driving off to the hospital slowly disappearing.....

    Mentally: For the last trimester or so, I've taken a one-day-at-a-time
    attitude, but its getting tougher. I find myself talking about future
    plans with baby, only to stop myself after having a sense of deja-vu,
    and a wave of fright comes over me. I think of what the delivery will
    be like, and I have vivid flashbacks to last March. People tell me that
    everything is going fine so I shouldn't worry, but I feel compelled  to
    tell them that, that was the case last time. I feel that everything
    that I do, every moment of everyday has an undercurrent stress; I'm
    less attentive at work, almost apathetic. Weekly I am experiencing at
    least one, maybe two migraines. 

    I feel myself telling this baby not to let me down. (seems sort of
    strange when I think about it). 

    The waiting is killing me, and I still have to get through the  first
    anniversary  of Daniel's stillbirth, coming up this next month, and 
    the anniversary of his original due date, six weeks later, two weeks
    before this baby is due. 

    Monica
                            

Monica,

Hang in there, I know this must be so very tough.  I am thinking about you
often and praying for you and your little rascal.  I sure hope someone puts
a note in on your delivery day so we don't have to wait until your leave is
over to hear all the great details!!!!!

Kristen

    Monica, sending my thoughts and prayers your way.  I only wish the best
    for you.  I feel really good that this one is going to be a perfect
    success!  From someone who has been through the feelings you have, I do
    understand.  I swear the last few weeks are the best.  
    
    (will "chat" more off-line)
    Lyn

    Since my leave is quite long (from May until Xmas) the news would
    take a while! 
    Luckily enough, since I am with the CSC, and have to be able to
    take calls from home, I have my trusty Macintosh and modem in the
    library. I'll let everyone know as things unfold.
    
    For now, Its back to the doctor.
    
    Monica
    

    Monica,
    
    You've been so open and honest about your experience, and I certainly
    have not been in your shoes...but still I'll offer advice.
    
    Focus on the positive.  The baby's movements for today.  A
    Braxton-Hicks contraction...Anything to remind yourself that this baby
    is active.
    
    Cross off every day on the calendar.  It will remind you how far you've
    come.  
    
    Your doctor is going to be watching you for every sign.  This can only
    be good for you.
    
    Remind yourself that women have healthy babies *every* day, and some of
    them have had problem pregnancies.  
    
    One example:
    
    My sister-in-law had an early miscarriage, a very late one, and now
    has an incredibly healthy 3-1/2 year old.  
    
    I hope this hasn't been insensitive.  You have helped so many by
    sharing your story, and I'd like to be supportive of you.
    
    My best,
    
    judy

    A progress Report:
 
    I've had 4 ultrasounds so far; The first at 19 weeks, the second at 25
    weeks due to the complaints I had of abdominal pain (which turned out
    to be gallstones) one at 28 weeks because the placenta had been low
    (this one revealed that the baby's growth was in the 98th  percentile,
    the placenta was up, and also revealed the baby's sex!) 
 
    I had one last Friday (30 weeks) which was a ultrasound that they
    actually score you on. much like the apgar (fluid content, baby's
    movement, etc).  As of next week, I will be having these and non-stress
    tests (as well as regular doctor's appointments) every week until I
    deliver. 

    Baby's getting a lot of attention. 

    Complication: My doc's pregnant. Not so bad (hey, its great! she's been
    trying for sometime!) but....its twins! HER OB has said that she cannot
    work after 26 weeks ("I have to go home and cross my legs for the rest
    of it, trying not to go into labour" as she puts it).

    Alas, that makes her out of commission a WEEK before I am due. But, she
    said, if I am early she's promised me to do the delivery, and if not, 
    she will have her backup do it, but SHE'LL BE THERE!

    I really like my doc, she's a wonderful person, and I think is
    personally committed to seeing me with a healthy delivery this time
    (Daniel was HER first stillbirth as a doctor as well). 

    I find I am more anxiety ridden despite the attention, again, partially
    hormonal, partially because I am REALLY close to where I was last year 
    with the other pregnancy, and partially because next Wednesday, the 
    18th would have been Daniel's first birthday. I am still wearing the 
    little pinky ring with his birthstone on it (I put it on the day  he
    would have been due originally last April, and will only be taking it
    off when my next child succeeds in coming into the world) --  Alan and
    I are trying to decide how we will honour that day.  I'd really  like
    to be by the tree where his ashes are, but that's far far away, so it
    won't be possible, but I will probably call my mom-in-law and  ask her
    to take a photo of the tree for me.

 Monica

    
                                       

    
    So Monica, do you know the sex or did you opt to wait?

    Monica,
    
    I take it that you don't want to tell the sex of your baby???
    
    My curiousity is peaked!
    
    Carol

    
    Add me to the list of "inquiring minds".....
    
    Are you going to tell?
    
    Chris
    
    PS....Glad to hear everything is going well for you, and I can't
    beleive that your at 30 weeks already!  Boy, it seems like the time has
    flown by!
    
    

    Yes, we know the sex.
    We've told our parents (mom's wanted to know what colour wool to
              knit from 8-) 8-) 0
    We've told a few secretive friends.
    But I am trying to keep it a surprise for all those here at
              work (so if I told here I'd be spoiling the surprise).
    
    The moment the technician told us though, I thought Alan would
    cry - he said it wasn't so much as knowing the sex, but the
    KNOWING. It made our child so much more close and real to us.
    
    Yes, time flies - I feel only about a million years older since
    last March.....
    
    Monica

    
  ...Although I'm not very active in the file.  I have been following your 
    story and look forward to your updates!
    
    I will be getting the "package" on march 23.  I wanted to tell you how
    touched I have been by your experiences.  I won't be here to read about
    the wonderful beginning of your life with your child.
    
    God Bless you and your family!   I wish you the best!
    
    Take Care,
              Kathy

Monica,

I have to say that I am *so* impressed with how you're handling the anxiety and
worry of this pregnancy.

On top of the normal worrying prospective parents do, you have the past to deal
with too.  You're doing it so well.

You are going to be a great mother.


Pat

    
    Looks like I will have the luxury of getting enough rest to 
    deal with all my little problems in the next little week, my
    doc just completed the paper work for short-term disability, and 
    as of Monday I am home! She was concerned at the number of migraines
    and anxiety I was experiencing and we both agreed that stresses of
    taking calls by customers complaining over software wasn't helping 
    matters. So, I get to sleep in, taking naps and tidy up baby's room
    in a leisurely fashion. While I genuinely regret leaving all my
    work buddies and leaving my boss in a little bit of a tight spot
    (we have a brand new team member, but it'll take a while for him),
    I am delighted that I can be a little more relaxed for a while.
    
    Yes, being a CSC specialist, as I mentioned before, I have everything
    I need at home to log in and be current with the rest of the dec
    world and plan to do so. 
    
    So from Monday when you read a note from me, picture me at my
    Mac in my library with a glass of juice and Mozart playing in the 
    background 8-) 8-).....
    
    Monica

    What a nice picture, Monica.
    
    I hope you get very well rested and relaxed, cause it's the last time
    you'll be that way for a while.  Enjoy!
    
    And many, many wishes for a perfectly healthy baby.
    
    I'll be thinking of you.  Make sure you let us know what's what the
    minute it all happens.  (Okay, a day or two later is allowed.  I guess
    you can't note from the hospital...)
    
    Best wishes,
    
    judy

	Happy for you Monica, but don't rub it in too hard... some of
	us are still counting down the weeks...

	Karen

    Monica,
    
    I hope the swelling subsides with rest on your left side.... Take all
    of the rest you and your family needs, and keep us posted - WE CARE !!!
    
    All our prayers, (or the equivalent from a UU), 
    
    LMC
    
     

Now it there were just some way for you to exchange "bedrest notes" with Linda
and Cindy???   

I only wish you the best. and somehow in my heart I just know this one is
going to work out well.

Lyn

(I'll chat more with you off-line)

Monica, Lyn (or any others who can help),

First if this has be discussed in this string previously I apoligize.

My question is what if anything did you find particulary helpful for friends
to say or do right after you experienced your loss.

I have a friend (actually more of a casual acquaintance) that just lost her
baby in a stillbirth.  From what I understand the baby's heart actually
stopped a couple of days before the delivery.  The details are sketchy, but
it sounds like the umbilical cord got wrapped around the neck.

I would like to send a card but would like to make sure my words do not
sound empty or even worse uncaring.  Any advise would be appreciated.
If you would rather contact me offline, feel free.

Thanks,
Barbara

    What we liked was to have friends keep the social "work" we had
    to do to a minimum: otherwise I (at least) felt pressured to
    either comfort or perform for people.  A card was better than 
    a phone call, for example, and short conversations were better
    than long ones--unless they were about something completely different
    (like at work).  It was important to me to be able to cut out of
    an interaction quickly (so don't take people out to dinner...)
    
    All you really need to do is send a card saying "I heard the sad
    news, I'm so sorry for you, don't hesitate to call if you need any
    help".
    
    Once some time (a few weeks) have gone by you might call and offer
    to help with something specific and limited, if it's natural.  Open
    ended questions ("Anything you would like me to do?") are harder to
    answer than specific ones ("I have an extra frozen pizza--would 
    you like me to drop it off on my way to work?").  But don't try to
    be closer than you were before.
    
    It may be only my taste, but I didn't care for people who got into
    the "how do you feel"/"you must feel so bad" stuff.  It may have
    been intended as theraputic, but it felt intrusive.  
    
    		-John Bishop

    I agree with the last note.  When my daughter died, people said some
    really hurtful things without really meaning to.  Some of the things 
    you should NEVER say include:
    "I know how awful you must feel"  NO you DON'T.
    "Well atleast you can have more children (or you have other children)"
    One does NOT replace the other.
    Also, lots of people are willing to help the first couple of weeks and
    then disappear off the face of the earth.  After a few weeks (as the
    previous noter suggested) call and ask if you can do something
    (specific).  For most people who've lost a child, they can't think long
    enough to figure out what might be helpful.
    Also, if they feel they want to talk about the child, let them.  Every
    time I tried to talk about my daughter, people ran in the other
    direction - even my family.
    
    Marie
    

    To add to what John said:
    Offering sympathies without dragging it out was very thoughtful --
    at first this was the best. It also depends on the personality
    of the person grieving (and their present mood when you talk to 
    them) at times I could talk about it, and it WAS helpful to do
    so, and at other times I had a "don't bother me" attitude.
    
    People who just said "I'm here if you ever need me" and made good
    on that claim (for small things) were really really appreciated. 
    
    It takes a long long time to get over the loss of a child -- I 
    always surprise myself at how sensitive I still am -- but reactions
    to a particular grief-trigger (a sad movie, someone else's similar
    exerience) usually quiet down after a time -- I am truly warmed 
    though, by people just expressing their sadness at our loss, 
    squeezing my hand and expressing doubtless confidence that this 
    pregnancy will be successful. Although I sometimes greet this 
    with skeptism, I find that eventually their confidence is 
    contagious 8-) 
    
    I also wanted to express to everyone how well things ARE going --
    being off of work is a marvelous gift - I have time to get things
    ready at my own pace, I GET ENOUGH SLEEP! and stress levels have
    dropped tremendously!
    The weekly NST's and ultrasounds do inspire confidence -- I had
    them this morning and baby is doing great; at six pounds it will
    be quite hefty at term, and the OB doing the ultrasound mentioned 
    several times how impressed he was that this baby was constantly
    practicing its breathing -- he said "this is the breathing-est baby
    I have seen in a very long time!" 
    
    I take this as a very good omen -- breathing is life.
    
    Monica
    (five weeks to go!)

    
    couldnt resist:
    
    Monica, I am SO HAPPY things are going so well with the baby...!
    I got goosebumps just thinking of how happy and excited you must
    be with such good reports from the ultrasounds, and how nice it must
    feel being home and able to relax...  You sound wonderful!  
    Keep up the good work!
    
    Chris