Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I think the best prevention is to let a strong sucker have lots of
    pacifier time as an infant and toddler, but that won't help you now.  I
    suspect that peer pressure will work pretty soon, not just during the
    day, but at night, too (I sucked my thumb until about 1st grade).
    
    Talk to your pediatrician/dentist/orthodontist about whether he is
    developing any tooth/jaw problems.  If he is, get their help in
    stopping the habit before the problems escalate.
    
    		- Bruce

    Why bother?  I am not convinced that it will do ANY damage, and it's a
    perfectly harmless comforting technique!
    
    If I had a choice, I'd pick thumbs over pacifiers any day!
    
    I know that sample sizes of 1 are not statistically significant, but I
    know someone with no orthodontic problems who sucked her thumb for much
    longer than .0 and .1 examples.
    
    Just another way to think about it.

    I have a cousin who sucked her thumb until about 10, if I had to guess.
    She was a totally unconscious sucker, like while watching TV, reading a
    book, etc.
    
    Two tricks they tried were using the mitten but it fell off at night so
    they switched to a knee sock which goes all the way up to the elbow.
    Especially good during the winter because with long-sleeved PJ's, it
    was held on nicely by putting the sleeve over it. This won't work if
    you have a child who gets up at night to go to the bathroom and is too
    groggy to remember to put them back on.
    
    The next trick was that she had to either fold her hands or twiddle her
    thumbs while watching tv, etc. A simple thing like having to hold a
    book will work or even patting/brushing a dog, too keep the hands away 
    from the face. This would be easiest if there is a pattern to
    sucking-time and not a pop the thumb in the mouth at any time, even for
    a split second type pattern.
    
    What finally did the trick with her was having to get orthodontia
    equipment at an early age (she is a case in point that long-tern thumb
    sucking can distort the teeth-line). She could no longer find a
    comfortable way of putting her thumb in her mouth because of the head
    gear running across her face and a retainer-type plate covering the
    roof of her mouth. 
    
    I know she was bothered by the pressure to stop but it was a habit that
    was tough the break. She knew enough to "control" it in public places
    like school, etc so peer pressure was not part of the picture.
    
    Andrea
                      

Our son's problem was "cured" as a result of an unfortunate and scary 
incident.

We were working with him on stopping the thumb sucking, with just gentle 
reminders when we'd see him.  Once we were finishing dinner while Gary was in 
the family room.  He dedided to do a trampoline routine, and just as we 
tried to tell him to stop, he slipped and smashed his chin on the coffee 
table, which caused a pretty bad cut where his teeth hit his upper lip.
Well, as a result of that cut, it HURT every time he tried to suck his thumb. 
Once the injury healed, he never started again.

It worked, but I don't recommend it.

re: .1

There are a lot of kids who simply won't take a pacifier.  Lara used a 
pacifier, and we never had any trouble with thumb sucking.  Gary would never 
use a pacifier, but instead sucked his thumb.

Clay

    Kat sucked a finger, not a thumb -- still chews on it occasionally
    at 16, though for the most part she has graduated to pen caps.
    
    She did have orthodontic treatment, but it was related to a small
    palate, not (according to the orthodontist) to the sucking. 
    Children who suck nipples or thumbs or whatever for several years
    do have a higher incidence of orthodontic problems than children
    who don't, but the vast majority don't develop such problems.  
    
    I'd recommend checking out whether there are reasons or situations
    that bring on the sucking.  Often it's just a habit, but if it's a
    response to things going on in his life, you might be able to
    substitute a more "grown up" behavior for the thumbsucking.  For
    instance, if it's for comfort to get to sleep, perhaps you can
    find an alternate comfort technique -- music, for instance, or
    reading a favorite book, or having a cup of warm milk before he
    goes upstairs.  If it's only at the end of a stressful day, you
    might have luck teaching him relaxation techniques or giving him
    an extra dose of personal attention.  
    
    --bonnie

    I am a staunch beleiver in leaving a thumb-sucker alone (unless
    you see some obvious damage being done). I swear I sucked my thumb
    past the age of 10. I never felt peer pressure because I only did
    it at home. My sister was the same way, as was my uncle (he did
    it until 14 Yrs!). None of us has ever had any orthodontic problems.
    
    I know I used it as a comfort mechanism, like other kids use a teddy
    bear. I was a very happy well adjusted child and teenager. I think
    if my paretns tried to make me stop, I would have been pretty
    upset.  
    
    Let them quit on their own.
    
    Dot

    I'm another who sucked my thumb *far* past the age that was reasonable. 
    I have memories of still sucking my thumb in sixth grade - stopped
    completely in seventh.  The only damage done is a very faint scar
    (visible only to me, now) on my thumb from where my teeth chomped down
    on it.
    
    Best advice - leave it alone, even if it drives you nuts!  For me, it
    was a comforter and a way of being 'in control' during some periods
    when a lot of stuff around me was 'out of my control'.  Basically, it
    won't cause psychological or physical damage, doesn't lead to deviant
    behavior and doesn't affect a kids's ability to study.  What more
    matters?
    
    Alison

When I was little my best friend bit her fingernails.  Her mother used this
stuff that tastes GROSS, to get her to stop.  Not sure what it was, or whether
it would work for a thumb-sucker, but I'd bet it would (if I remember, it was
*very* hot).

Kristen

    My mother tried that on me.  It only works for about three days,
    then you get used to the taste.
    
    --bonnie

   Well, we do not have do deal with this situation, since Victoria
   gave up the pacifier a few months ago (during a particularly
   uncomfortable teething period) and never picked up the thumb....
   But I'll make a comment anyway.
   
   As has been mentioned before in other areas - pick your battles
   well.  Some replys here have said "don't worry", and others have
   said "it's a good habit to kill".  What I believe you want to be
   thinking about is this - is it important enough to you to make
   something of it?  That may help you decide what action (if any) you
   want to take..
   
   - Tom
   

Our 5 (nearly 6) year old is a thumb sucker and there is so little that we
can seem to do about it ... we have tried many things.  Her latest is that
she will stop when she is 6.  She said she'd stop when she was 5 too!

Anyway, she currently has no problems with pulling teeth out of line.  On the
other hand our 9 year old never sucked her thumb, but has pushed her front
teeth out anyway!  (Probably by pushing with her tonge!)

I get the impression that like so many things, they'll only stop when they
are ready and very little else will do it!

Stuart

    re.  .11
    
    My 6 year old, nearly 7 year old thumb sucker has also give me the 
    "I'll stop when I'm six", etc. lines.  We also have tried numerous 
    ways to make her stop.  We've spoken to both her dentist and physician
    and both have basically told us to leave her alone and she'll stop 
    when she's good and ready.  
    
    Advice from her dentist was unless she's sucking hard all night, 
    the emotional damage (shaming her into stopping - only babies suck
    their thumbs, making a big deal out of it, etc.) is far worse than
    any damage her teeth will incur.  We've stopped even mentioning it
    when we see it.  
    

    ditto .10 and .12
    
    D.

    My nephew sucked his thumb to the point where he had true buck
    teeth (these were his permanent ones). When he finally quit at the
    age of 10?, 11? his teeth gradually aligned themselves and look
    fine now. I think he really needed his comfort habits - I'm glad his
    parents didn't force him to stop.    
    
    Lucy
    

    My daughter had to give up thumb sucking at 7 because it was
    damaging her bite. (She had major work to align a cross bite
    and bring her chin forward).
    
    By that point she had long since limited her thumb sucking to
    bed time. (Tho she had quite a callus on the back of her thumb!)
    
    She was okay with not sucking when she went to bed, once she
    realized that in her case it was damaging her bite. However,
    once she was asleep the thumb would go into her mouth. We were
    able to help her quit by putting a sock over her hand which
    went up under her nightgown (as mentioned by another noter.)
    
    The other children used pacifiers and were able to give them up
    at 3, so I'd chose a pacifier over a thumb any day. (You can't
    throw a thumb away!)
    
    Bonnie

    	Thanks for all the advice/comments/suggestions! It's good to hear
    that other children have experienced prolonged thumb-sucking without
    major problems. What I did not mention in my origional note was that my
    son Russell was adopted at the age of 20 months and was a full-time
    sucker then and we have assumed it to be some sort of comfort provider.
    For several years we did nothing assuming he would out grow it but
    lately have grown concerned about possible dental problems. Friends of
    ours have successfully used the orthodontic mouth-piece but I think
    Russell would greatly resist that going in his mouth.
    
    The Verdict!
    
    	I think we will continue to let nature take its course and assume
    that when Russell is ready he will stop on his own. Sort of like toilet
    training I guess! Maybe the stocking or peer pressure will have some
    influence but I don't think I will lose any sleep over it for now.
    
    	Thanks again for all the responses!
    
    Dave B.
    

    I am looking for help with ways to cure thumb-sucking.
    
    My step-daughter is nine-going-on-ten and she continually has
    her thumb in her mouth.
    
    Any ideas?

    I have a cousin who sucked her thumb until she was about 12. She knew
    enough to not suck it at school but if she did get "stressed" at school
    it did find it's way into her mouth. Her parents had a real
    heart-to-heart with her, not to really discuss thumb-sucking but to
    discuss anything that might be bothering her. From there they tried a
    few things....
    
    everyone had the "right" to take her thumb out of her mouth if they saw
    	it in there (they even came up with a signal to remind her that it
    	was in her mouth - that saved her from embrassing situations when 
    	friends or company were over). This was discussed heavily and NO
    	ONE was allowed to make a verbal comment.
    she wore a sock on her hands at night
    she twiddled her thumbs or sat on her hands while watching tv
    she really worked at holding onto something when her hands weren't
    	occupied, like grip the side of the chair during dinner or waiting
    	to be excused or for dessert, etc 
    she would try needlepoint/embroidery to keep her hands occupied
    she would pat the dog more
    
    Hope these help. I think it took about a year of "tricks" to get her to
    completely stop the habit.                                             
    
    Andrea

    Although this gesture is instinctive and "not wholly conscious" on her
    part... You might - depending on your daughter's character - try
    sucking _your thumb_ in her presence, as much as you can.  It can help
    point out the inesthetic aspect of "thumb sucking"...  It has worked on
    other issue between me and my daughter.  But do not do it, if you think
    she will believe you are mocking her.  That will only damage her
    self-esteem - which is not what you want.
    
    I agree with -1 about trying to find - together - a suitable and
    acceptable alternative for the emotion/habit that gets her thumb in her
    mouth in the first place.
    
    Good luck
    

    It's been a while.  Heidi is still sucking her thumb, although not as
    often.  When we remind her, she immediately takes it out of her mouth.
    
    I suspect very strongly that the problem stems from insecurity.  She
    was only 4 when her parents were divorced.  She and her brother still
    live with their mother, but they are constantly begging us "when are
    we coming to live with you??" They aren't very happy at their mother's
    house.  
    
    I have tried most everything mentioned in this note, and I think at 
    this point I am going to just leave it alone until we get the custody
    issue dragged to completion.  [The court system is s-o-o-o-o s-l-o-o-o-w.]
    
    Thanks to those who have helped so far.  All good input that I will try
    again later.

	My daughter is a thumb sucker. She loved her pacifier for almost
two years. She gave it up for several months and then, out of the blue,
stated sucking her thumb. She wasn't interested in going back to the
pacifier.

	No big deal in our minds. We agree with the theory that she will
give it up someday. Both my wife and I had braces. There are 
extremely good odds that Kelly will need them so I don't worry too
much about any additional problems caused by the thumb sucking.

	One thing that does bother us tremendously is the variation that
she has developed. (Those with weak stomachs, hit next unseen now)...

	She also likes to have her finger rammed up her nostril while
sucking. YEEAACHHH!! Not only does it look awful, as a byproduct, 
she removes the contents of her nose and leaves them deposited on areas
of her face.

	Even this we could live with if necessary. What we are most worried
about is what she may be doing to her nose long term.  She sticks the finger
in to the first knuckle, greatly disfiguring her nose. We thought about the
awful tasting stuff painted on her fingers, but the pharmacist thought it
might be too harsh on the nose membranes.

	Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

							Mark

re .21.  Mark, it might be gross, but one time I caught my 3.5
year old "lapping" at the green stuff oooozing from her nose.
I was shocked to say the least.  Well, I drew an analogy for
her, (warning, grossness follows!)



I compared it to eating poop!  I haven't seen her do this since.
Now if I could only get her to quit picking her nose!  Sorry
for the tangent.

    Is twenty months too early to expect a child to give up sucking
    her fingers to go to sleep?  Our daughter falls asleep with a soft 
    cloth diaper in one hand cuddling her face, and two or three fingers
    (not the thumb) from the other in her mouth. This replaced her pacifier
    around age 3 months and she's been an excellent sleeper.
    
    A week ago she caught what looked like poison ivy on her "sucking" 
    hand, presumably from patting a dog.   For two days she had her fingers 
    coated with caldryl and bandaged except when she was in her crib. The 
    skin then started to peel and has been quite red.  
    
    I've been fairly successful in asking her to change hands and just hold
    the diaper with the sore one, so she's mostly sucking the other hand.
    Should I try to get her to give it up totally?  Any suggestions how?
    
    I assume most kids her age don't use a pacifier and only some suck their 
    thumb and fewer their fingers.  I haven't needed to read Dr.
    Ferber up til now--does anyone remember whether he addressed this?   
    
    Thanks for your advice!
    	--Andrea

dMy  son was born with his 2 middle fingers in his mouth.  All through
    his baby hood and pres-school he continued to suck these same fingers.
     Never his thumb.
    
    I didn't want him to develope a complex, so I never reacted meanly but
    rather tried to coax him into giving up the fingers.
    
    To this day, 7 yrs. old, he'll suck these fingers occasionaly.
    Especially at bed time.
    
    MY son will have to want to stop sucking his fingers, before it
    actually ends.  And that seems to be happening quite naturally.     
    

>    Is twenty months too early to expect a child to give up sucking
>    her fingers to go to sleep?  

My initial feeling is that it's her call to make.  I stopped sucking my 
thumb when I was 5.  I just wasn't ready before that.  My oldest is over 
two and still sucks his thumb. My youngest is 11 months and doesn't suck 
any digits, but has a severe blanket dependency ;-)  I consider both of 
these things to be their business.  They must need it for a reason.  I've 
never met an adult who sucks their thumb, so I imagine the dependency is 
transitory.

>>>==>PStJTT

    i sucked my thumb till I was 6.  My son is 3.5, still sucks his
    first two fingers -- he found them when he was about 2 months old
    and hasn't let go of them since!  Of course, like your daughter,
    he only does it when tired/upset/out of sorts in general.  
    
    I wouldn't make an issue out of this.  I think it's smart of her
    to understand to "switch hands" since her "regular" sucking hand
    is sore.  My understanding is that kids who have some kind of
    comfort habit _of their own_ -- be it a "blanky," sucking, or
    whatever -- tend to go to sleep on their own, too.  Which is what
    you want the kid to do.  *How* she gets there isn't the point,
    as long as she does it on her own -- and stays asleep.

    Both of my boys suck their finger or fingers.  The oldest(he just
    turned 5) recently gave up his blanket, but still sucks the index finger on
    his left hand.  The baby (who is 16months old) sucks the index and
    second finger of his right hand.  He also has the blanket dependancy.
    
    The last time we were at the dentist, he said not to worry about their
    teeth.  Since the fingers do not push the the teeth out like the thumb
    does, it is really no big deal.
    
    Our Pedi said the same thing, it is really their call, when they are
    old enough to, they will throw the blanket away, and stop the sucking.
    The only time Jeffrey sucks this finger now is when he is really tired. 
    Evan, the youngest seems to suck his every time he sees the blanket.
    
    I thing that it has something to do with heredity...I also sucked my
    two middle fingers when I was born.  My mom said I gave it up when I
    was aroung 5 years old.
    
    I think you should let you child decide.
    
    
    Lillian

    
    
    I agree with the other noter.  Let her stop on her own.  Matthew
    sucked his thumb until his 5th birthday.  He told us for about
    6 months before his birthday "I am going to stop sucking my thumb
    on my birthday".  I always said "Well thats great matthew".
    I never really took him serious.  Sure enough he woke on his birthday
    and has'nt touched his thumb since.
    
    My brother was a differant story.  He sucked his thumb in his wake 
    hours until he was about 7.  He sucked his thumb when he was asleep
    until he was 17 years old.  He would put his thumb in his mouth after
    drifting off to sleep.  It's very hard to stop doing something your
    not conscience about.  I'm sure my brother is close to a isolated case ;)
    BTW he stopped when he got involved with his first serious girlfriend.
    Also my parents tried every remedy they could think of to get him to 
    stop.  They just did'nt work. 
    
    Give her time!  Maybe she'll decide on her birthday to stop too. :))
    
    Kathy
      

    My sister didn't stop sucking her fingers while she was asleep until
    she got braces!  But she stopped doing it when she was awake at about
    5-6 years old. My parents tried everything, and nothing worked.  Just
    made her a crankpot when they bugged her about it.  
    
    marianne

    I feel fortunate so far not having this as a problem.  However friends
    of ours have a daughter who is now 8 and still sucks her thumb and
    frequently is seen with either a blankie or stuffed animal.  What is
    rather embarassing to the parents is that her father is the head of one
    of the town departments so their children are frequently in public
    display.
    
    I've tried to tactfully suggest that this is a real strong place to
    practice NOT bringing it up to the girl, in the belief that if you
    ignore it, it might go away.  Unfortunately her mother frequently will
    tell her, in public, to stop sucking her thumb. That drives me crazier
    than just ignoring the thumb sucking.
    
    Is it me or does it seem to be girls more than boys who do this??
    and why?

    I have a friend that lives in Bermuda and when we were 15-18, she came
    to stay with my family during the school year to attend my school.  We
    did alot of double dating (we were going out with best friends) and
    when the dates were winding down for the evening and Gina was getting
    tired, she'd suck her thumb and twist a lock of her hair, while resting
    her head on her boyfriends shoulder.  They (the guys) thought she was
    crazy but I was used to it, seeing we shared a room and she went to
    sleep that way every night.
    
    Gina is now 28, has two little boys and if she's had a stressful day,
    still sucks her thumb.
    
    Roberta

    My daughter Marisa (17 months) is sucking her thumb raw. She is at that
    unbalanced, frustrated stage and she is using her thumb for security.
    For example, if I tell her no she pops her thumb in her mouth, or if
    she trys to communicate with Joe or I and we don't understand, in goes
    the thumb. She also sucks on it very hard. I am not worried about her
    thumb sucking, however, I am worried about the condition of her
    thumb. She only sucks one of her thumbs and it is chapped and has two
    cracks in it. It is so sore she wakes up at night (she falls asleep,
    the thumb dries out, when she pops it back in again, OW!). She also
    points at it and says Oh-Oh or cries. It really started bothering her
    over the weekend. My Mom and friends suggested the following:
    
    1. Put a band-aid on the thumb. It may start her sucking on the other
    thumb and will give this thumb a chance to heal. At very least, she
    might be sucking on the band-aid. Does that seem safe?
    
    2. Put Vitamin E cream or Vaseline on the thumb. Does that seem safe?
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Donna
    

    	What worked for us (on fingers, not thumb) was to have our
    daughter Marissa switch the hand she used.  
    
    	We were very gentle and not at all strict about it (thanks to the 
    advice we got here).  I rocked her and we examined her sore fingers 
    and she seemed to get the point that the "boo boo" would go away if 
    she didn't suck on it.  (She was 20 months old.)  
    
    	With Marissa, it helped that she holds a cuddle object(a cloth diaper)
    in the opposite hand.  I put that in the sore hand so the other one was 
    easier to pop in the mouth.  Does your daughter have some kind of cuddle 
    that you could do this with?
    
    	The doctor said it was critical to get the hand healed: at that point 
    it looked like to him like psoriasis or eczema (I can't remember which.)
    
    	It only took a few gentle rocking sessions to get her comfortable
    with the other hand, and after that we could just suggest she switch hands
    when she used the other one.  If you can just get her to switch part
    of the time it may be enough to get the thumb healed up.
    
    	We did use a bandaid (over caladryl) but only for a few hours at
    a time, when she was  being closely supervised.  We didn't want her
    chewing/sucking/swallowing that.
    
    	You ought to think about what you can do to minimize her frustration. 
    Can you "change the environment" instead of saying "no"?  (We use NO 
    only for the stove, electric outlets, running towards the road, etc.  
    For dumping food, we say (judgmentally!) "oh oh MESS.  She says "oh oh 
    MESS".  We take bowl away and explain that now Mommy has to clean up
    that mess, pretty much ignoring any squawking.)  If you don't understand 
    what she's saying can you give her positive reactions to it anyway (and 
    if she's asking for something, "can you show mommy what you want!")?   	
    
    	You might want to look at "Your one year old: lovable and fussy?"  by 
    Louise Bates Ames (in the Gesell Institute paperback series): it was 
    helpful for me.  I know it's available in Barnes and Noble in Nashua. (I'm 
    reading ahead into the two year old volume too.)
    
    	Also, could she be doing some teething on that thumb?  Make sure you
    keep her "baby" teething toys around even as she gets older.  We give
    teething toys to the stuffed animals to get Marissa interested in 
    using them.  ("puppy's chewing on the teething beads...")  
    
    	Good luck and let us know how it goes!  I know how worrisome it
    is when you see your child injuring herself.
    
    		--Andrea