Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Jane,
    
    This same thing happened to me Friday night.  I was in a restaurant
    with my 20 month old son and my sitter and her family.  We were waiting
    for our food when another waitress (a total stranger) came over to my
    son, started saying to him, "Oh you're so cute.  What a nice little
    boy".... and then gave him a kiss on his cheek.  I was left totally
    speechless as this is the first time a stranger has ever kissed my
    child.  People constantly stop to talk to him and once and a while they
    may even pat the top of his head (which doesn't overly concern me), but
    never has anyone ever kissed him without asking permission first up
    until this time.  I didn't know how to tell her not to do that (it was 
    already too late at this point anyway) without being untactful, so I chose
    to remain silent.  I'd also like to know how to handle this situation
    if it should ever happen again.
    
    Lori B. 

I can understand your concern about strangers kissing your children.  I
think the general public sees children - and especially babies - as sort of
universal beings.  Or perhaps they're just fascinated by these little folks
who are in turn fascinated by everything around them.

Or maybe the folks you encountered were running for office :^)

I've never had a stranger want to or try to kiss my children, although
they get "coochie-cooed" when we go out in public.  I don't
think that you need to worry about germs from a stroke on the cheek or
head, or from your baby grabbing onto a stranger's finger.  I think it's
natural to want to protect your children from all the "nasties" out there,
but unless you sterilize your floor or manage to keep your children from
ever touching the floor, they're getting them anyway (the "nasties").  If
you stop to think about all the stuff we step in, seen and unseen, and then
drag into our homes it's overwhelming. I don't allow shoes on in my home
while Graham is still in his "taste everything" stage for this reason.

Also, if your kids are in daycare with other teething, drooling, curious
kids, you can bet they're getting all kinds of germs  -daycare kids get 50%
more colds and illnesses than at-home kids.  Daycare providers can't
prevent every already-drooled-on toy from being tasted by the next kid
(I just try not to think about it).

As to how to keep people from kissing your children, if you keep them close
and keep in between you and the strangers, and through your body language,
tone of voice, etc, put out the "don't touch" signal, I think you're doing
all you can.

~Caryn

    Re: -1
    
    Rathole warning
    
    Caryn:
    
    I have to dispute your claim that day care kids get 50% more colds
    (etc) than the non-day care kids.  I have a large percentage of stay at
    home mom friends with little ones and they are usually neck in neck
    competition as far as colds and ear infections go with my kids who are 
    day care kids.  If one of the parents is a working parent, you can bet 
    they are bringing germs and illnesses home from the office!

Somebody I know has had the same problem.  She has a very cute child (or so
she claims) and strangers used to frequently fondle her.  The mother didn't
like it and neither did the child.  When she was old enough to talk, she
started telling the fondlers to leave her alone -- it was very effective.

    
    I have found that being alert and giving "keep away from my kid" looks
    do the trick most of the time.  I have a 17 month old daughter who
    loves to wave at & hug everyone.  When I'm in public and I feel 
    uncomfortable with the possibility of someone touching my daughter, I
    tell them that she has a bad contageous rash.  That does the trick.
    
    I had two shocking experiences when she was young (under 6 months).
    One was in a restaurant and she started crying as the food arrived, and
    an older lady came up and asked if she could carry my daughter around
    for a few minutes.  My husband said NO quite emphatically and she left
    soon afterwards.  The other incident was in a local shopping mall when
    I was window-shopping and a woman came up and asked if she could push
    my daughter around for a few minutes.  Of course, I ran as fast as I
    could out of that mall!
    
    I mention this because most people are just trying to be friendly and
    you don't want to make your kid paranoid --- on the other hand, there
    can be weird people out there, so go with your gut instinct with
    strangers.  The rash comment works great!  

    I need to offer a different approach on this one.  Let's face it, a
    baby *anything* will attract public affection.  Before having children,
    the one way I knew I cold get to know my new neighbors' attention was to 
    take my puppy for a walk around the block.  Ok it wasn't intentional,
    but it sure worked as an ice breaker!  I actually had some elementary
    school kids ring my bell one day and ask if "giget" (the dog) could
    come out and "play".  Maybe it's a little different here, I did let
    them walk her on occation, within my sight of course, and let them in
    to the yard to play for a short while.  Let's face it babies and
    fuzzy critters are a soft spot for even the meanest folks.
    
    I figure I may cause some friction here, I do know kids and animals are
    hardly the same, that is NOT my implication.
    
    Lyn

re .6:

What's your point?  If parents don't want strangers handling their kids,
they shouldn't have to let them.

<What's your point?  If parents don't want strangers handling their kids,
<they shouldn't have to let them.

The basenoter *asked* if she was being overly sensitive.

Personally, I think she is.  When Evan was a baby, we used to say that he
would flirt with anyone.  Teenagers and adults gave him a lot of attention,
and it wasn't a problem for us.  I don't remember them touching him a lot,
but unless it's extreme I can't imagine that we would have worried about it.
Certainly new parents often go off the deep end trying to "sterilize" things;
how many of you used to BOIL your nipples and bottles all of the time??
We often think that our babies are much more fragile than they are.
I think my last illusion about this went away the day I caught Evan (at age 
8 months) eating the canned cat food out of the cat's bowl...  :-)

So my advice is to hang in there, don't worry too much, and see if you can
perhaps enjoy the positive attention your child is getting.

         Carol

    I have a situation that blew my mind and because of that I am no longer
    concerned with the feelings of any person regarding my child.
    
    My husband and I went to a superbowl party at the home of one of his
    coworkers.  I am very fond of the owner of the home and was glad to be
    there and have my two month old daughter along for her to be oogled.
    There was another of my husbands coworkers there and as soon as I came
    into the room this woman's (whom I don't like to beging with) husband 
    literally snatched my infant out of my hands, put her feet in the palm
    of his hand and tried to see if she would balance.  I grabbed for my
    infant who was putting weight on her little legs and this man pushed me
    back from my OWN CHILD with his free hand and said "No!  Wath this"  My
    husband made a grab from the side, snatched the baby and said, "What is
    wrong with you?" to the man.  I took my daughter from my husband and
    very angrily left.  I have not since been polite to the man's wife
    because she was encouraging him.  As a matter of fact I have been down
    right rude since.  I can't help it though.  
    
    You can be sure of this though, NOBODY touches or holds my daughter
    unless I know the person VERY well and even my friends know to ask
    before handling my child in ANY way.
    
    You do have to be very careful.  I learned just how quickly your child
    can be snatched away and its scary.
    
    Katrina

    
    Hi Jane,
    
    I don't think you're being overly sensitive to this at all!
    
    I have a 2 month old and since the first day I've taken her
    out (she was 1 week old), someone has asked me if they
    can hold her...pick her up... and grabbed her little hands.
    Instantly, I became upset and had a difficult time in
    telling people to 'get away!' I was a new mother and thought
    I too, was being too sensitive. But now, 2 months later
    I still feel the same way! and always will. 
    
    I think the trick is to find a phrase that works for you so
    when someone approaches your child, you can catch them before
    they actually doing any touching. I've yet to come up with what 
    to say, so if you do - let me know!
    
    The difficulty I'm having now along these same lines, is that
    our neighbor - 11 year old girl, is going to be our babysitter
    (not while I'm at work - but evenings out, errand running
    type of deal).. Anyways, she's always TOUCHING my daughter -
    this kind of stroking..like on the soft spot on her head -
    over and over and over...I go crazy! I can't think of a way
    to tell her to stop doing this so therefore I have been
    avoiding her.
    
    I'm glad you wrote this note - it's something that has
    been bothering me.
    

    I think there is a very big difference between a person holding a finger
    out for a baby to grab, and a person actually grabbing a baby out of it's
    mother's arms.

    I personally wouldn't be overly concerned about germs a baby might get 
    from a person's hand (assuming they appeared reasonably clean).  I have
    to agree with .6 and .8 that this kind of innocent attention is well-
    intentioned and pretty harmless.  Kissing a baby on the head is a bit
    rude in my book - but still not a cause for great alarm.

    As far as the man who grabbed the baby out of his mothers arms - that
    act was unforgivably rude and insensitive - not to mention dangerous!
    And if somebody had done that to my child I would probably be warry of
    anybody who came within three feet of my baby for a VERY VERY long time.

    - Carol

    I'm under the impression we are now talking about two different 
    things here; being 
    1/ young babies picking up germs from strangers -- as other noters
       have said, its very difficult to avoid having your child pick up
       dirt and/or germs from their environment -- you'd have to put them
       in a germ-free room for all their lives! In the end this is hardly
       necessary.
    2/ the REAL issue here is a parent's sense of insecurity at having some
       one they do not trust total, touch their child. I feel this is a 
       perfectly normal reaction and understand it totally. If it bothers
       you to have someone else touch the child - say so. There are ALWAYS
       ways in which you can be diplomatic, if you WANT to be. (I can
       see situations where you want to be adamant and forceful; like the 
       incident at the party).
    
    I can see that reaction in myself once our child is born, being a
    worrier, slightly possessive in nature and definitely insecure about 
    my trust in people I do not know as well. Coupled with the fact that
    we've lost a baby, I will probably be nuts about this -- I am already
    coaching myself against possible fanatic behaviour as a mother (and I
    will definitely be asking for advice here if *I* feel I've gone over
    the bend!!)
    
    Monica
    

    Interesting topic here, and ironically yesterday I attended a
    housewarming for a friend and there were two or three only weeks old
    infants.  I spoke the the parents, "talked" to the babies, and outside
    of offering to hold one of the infants while her mom got something to
    eat, and warmed a bottle, pretty much kept my hands to myself.  Sort of
    odd, the infant found one of my fingers and started to suck on it.  I
    made her mom aware of what she was doing and asked if it was OK with
    her.  (I assured her I had *just* washed my hands in any case). I
    really made no contious efforts, nor this this note seem to enter my
    mind, I just sort of did what came naturally. 
    
    Sort of funny how when you hold an infant you never loose the instinct
    to "sway" or "bounce" while holding them.  It came right back to me!
    
    Lyn

re .12:

>    2/ the REAL issue here is a parent's sense of insecurity at having some
>       one they do not trust total, touch their child.

I think there's a third issue -- boundaries.  It's not considered appropriate
behavior for strangers to fondle adults.  Why is it appropriate for strangers
to fondle children?

    I don't think patting a child on the head or commenting on how cute
    he/she is could be considered "fondling".  I'm sure other women who
    were pregnant had the same experience I did - little old ladies coming
    up to me in stores and patting my belly! 
    
    I'm a naturally friendly person who strikes up conversations with
    people in shopping lines, book stores, anywhere.  If I see a child near
    me in a line I will smile and say hi.  I won't touch them unless they
    (or their parent) seems approachable.  You can usually tell how a
    person is reacting to you.  If I feel uncomfortable around a person my
    general attitude is "keep away".  I drive my kids crazy because I'm
    always talking to people I don't know.  I try to explain to them (my
    kids) that I only do this in VERY public places, that I HAVE been
    around a bit longer than them and I am careful about who I speak to.
    
    I don't want to live in a world where strangers remain strangers - I am
    very cautious and teach my kids about how some people are "bad
    strangers".  But there are GOOD strangers out there too - and they are
    in the majority!  Yes, I would FLIP if someone grabbed my infant
    without my permission.  No, I wouldn't allow someone to stroll my child
    around a mall.  But, if someone wants to say hi to my child and pat
    them on the head that's ok.  I wouldn't let them kiss them and position
    myself so that can't happen (I wouldn't hesitate to throw a body block
    if a stranger were persistent).
    
    Sorry if I've caused any ratholes here - I REALLY didn't mean to. 
    Don't know if I helped the basenoter either - just wanted to give my
    input.
    
    Linda

    .11
    
    I wouldn't have gotten so upset about this person grabbing
    my daughter's hand - except that she was a cleaning woman
    at a hospital!... so, in my mind, her hands where either
    covered with some kind of disinfectant OR some terrible
    hospital germs!
    
    The severity of that situation was what I based some of
    my comments on.