Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Depends on a few things I guess:
    
     - is your daughter a strong person, or will grandpa's state scare her?
     
     - is she generally afraid of new places (a hospital is a scary place
       in general).
    
     - what are the visiting rules of the hospital. I remember I was not
       allowed to visit my mother because I was below the age limit the
       hospital allowed to visit. 
    
     - and for your sake of mind; is she a relatively quiet (calm) person?
       It'll make your visit harder on you if you spend most of your 
       energy trying to control her. 
    
    Monica

    First of all, ask how your FIL feels.  His doctor may not want him
    to have any visitors for another few days.  Then, your FIL himself
    may not want anyone to see him looking/feeling sick.  So I'd ask
    first before undertaking that long drive.
    
    Then, ask your daughter.  Most 3-year-olds are pretty bright and
    can figure out things quite well.  I'd explain to her that Grandpa
    is not feeling at all well and probably won't look or act like he
    usually does, but he wants to see her (assuming this is the case).
    Keep it simple, but try to get your point across that Grandpa
    won't be the playmate that she may be used to.
    
    I can't remember how far it is from Atlanta to Charlotte.  If
    it's more than a couple of hours' drive, your daughter may need
    to run around and let off some steam before she goes to see her
    grandpa.  Try to figure that into your plans, too.  Is it worth
    staying overnight in Charlotte (if only to reduce wear and tear
    on you)?  Two short visits may be better for all concerned than
    one long one.
    
    Well, this is a real long way of saying "it all depends."  Find
    out how your FIL feels, find out how your daughter feels, and
    figure out how YOU feel.  Then plan from there.  Sometimes it is
    helpful to take along a trusted babysitter (someone you'd leave
    your daughter with if you went out in the evening); this person
    can help keep your daughter entertained, perhaps even take her
    to a nearby park while you and FIL visit.
    
    Good luck.  Have a safe trip!
    

    Thanks for the responses. In general, Hannah is a quiet, well-mannered
    child. Especially when she is in unfamiliar surroundings. She is
    however very shy about new experiences. I wouldn't say she scares
    easily, but she takes a long time to feel comfortable. I'll check with
    my MIL and find out about visiting rules and how Grandpa feels. He and
    Hannah are best buddies.
    
    We plan to spend the weekend in Charlotte. We'll drive up Friday night
    and visit Grandpa on Saturday. It's a 4 hour drive.
    
    I'll let you know how it goes.
    Jeanne

    In view of Hannah's temperament, if the hospital allows children I'd
    take her along.  Lots of adult folks find hospitals scary in and of
    themselves, but I don't, and I don't think kids do unless they get a
    "contact low" from their adult companions!  If *you* feel very skittish
    and weirded-out in hospitals, it might not be a good idea for *you* to
    take her.
    
    Think about having you or your hubby take Hannah on an impromptu tour of 
    the hospital when she needs to shake the wiggles out (the nursery
    window springs to mind!).
    
    And I'd tell her that GrandPa will probably look (and be) very tired,
    but being in the hospital is helping him rest, and seeing her will make
    him very happy.  I wouldn't advise a Viewing of the Scar, though!
    
    Good luck,
    Leslie

Since most hospital's have a policy about children visiting, 10-14 years
minimum {randomly enforced} - we had Grandma come out to the waiting room. 
We pushed her in a wheelchair when she was feeling up to it. 

My Godmother in Palm Springs had surgery last week and is asking to see my
21 month old terror.  We'll wait until she's well enough for a short visit
in the waiting room!

Rochelle

P.S. Make sure your daughter is healthy too, last thing Gramps needs is to
catch one of those little virus'

	just an insight into personal experience.........

	when my dad had coronary by-pass surgery, I ended up spending
	a LOT of time at the hospital (things didn't go really well
	the first few days); all the while dad was in CCU, he didn't
	want to see anyone but me !!  As soon as he was finally in a
	step-down room (between CCU and regular care room), I brought
	my son, then 4 yrs.old, to see him.  You see, up until then,
	he had been concerned about his "Poppi" and had a hard time
	understanding why Mommy could go see him, but he couldn't  !!

	If Hannah is as close to her Grampa as Matt was to his Poppi,
	I'd say take her along.  But before you do, sit her down and
	explain the situation in three-year-old terms (ex., with my
	son, we had to tell him he couldn't jump up on Poppi, wouldn't
	be able to sit in his lap, needed to be quiet in the hospital
	so the sick people could rest.....).  Also be sure to tell her
	if there's any special "equipment" attached (monitors, IV, etc.)
	so those won't scare her.  I also second the recommendation to
	have someone else along who can take her to see the Gift Shop	
	or the Coffee Shop or just outside for a walk if she gets
	restless.

	Best of luck to you, Hannah and your FIL for his recovery,
	Debbi J

    I have good experience with this matter.
    
    My mother is a very sick woman and has been in and out of hospitals for
    the past 2 years.  Know I have a 2 year old son who adors his Grammie
    and constantly talks about her.   Well about 4 months before my son's 
    first birthday she fell and broke her hip and was in Mount Auburn Hosp. in 
    Boston for hip surgery.  They allowed me to bring Alexander in to see
    her.  He was well behaved in the hospital and it made my mom feel alot
    better seeing him.  After the surgery she was transfered to Spalding
    Rehab Center for rehabilitation and therapy.  They also let me bring
    Alexander into see her.  They also let me bring him into Emerson
    Hospital here in Concord Ma. to see her when she is in there.  They
    also let me bring him into Tufts New England Medical Center when she
    had kidney dialises done and they are a very well known hospital.
    
    Maybe you should call the hospital and find out if they let children
    your daughters age visit, and if so it might do Grampa some good to see
    her if she is as close to him as you say.  I know it did my mom alot of
    good to see my son.
    
    Liz
     

    
    Well, for short term hospital stays, I use a rule of thumb.  Hospitals
    are no place for little kids.  Of course, no matter what anyone says
    here, you're the best judge of how your kid will handle it.  BUT,
    there's one point that seems to have been overlooked.  You have a long
    drive to get there.  Long drives tend to tire a kid out.  Theis kid
    will probably already be tired, maybe figgity(sp), and restless by the
    time you get there.  Now, after sitting in the car for a long time,
    he's going to have to sit still in a hospital room, THEN, there's the
    long drive back.  My personal recommendation is to not take the kid.
    
    Chris D.

    I appear to be in the minority here but I also agree with the previous
    noter to not bring the child to the hospital.

    Hospitals are not pleasant places to be period. When you are a patient
    in one, you do not feel well, you are probably in pain, you have
    probably not had a shower or full bath recently, you are probably in
    hospital clothes, you are probably on some sort of medication that may
    make you drowsy or confused, you are probably hooked up to equipment.

    As your Grandfather is an adult, he would no doubt be kept on the adult
    if not geriatric floor. This means that you may have to pass open doors
    that expose other patients in various stages of recovery/decline. If
    he is on the geriatric floor, there is usually someone who is in great
    pain or dioriented who is crying out for help.

    Although short visits from loved ones are beneficial to the person who
    is healing, I would not subject the child (or the patient for that
    matter) to a visit in the hospital.

    A hand drawn picture (IMHO) from the child to the grandparent would be
    more appropriate.

    			Wendy

    I think the parents should decide on their own. What might be BEST for
    their child.
    
    Now, I feel different about the last two notes. After the birth of my
    second son, I could'nt wait to see my first son in the hospital, He was
    only two then. He did very well in the hospital. Also when my husband
    was in  the ICU all hooked up to things, my son was allowed in to visit
    and it did not scare him. He just asked alot of questions. 
    
    I think if you try to keep them out of hospitals they will think they
    are bad places and will be scared if they have to go to a hospital
    someday.
    
    IMO,
    
    Lynne

    Remember too that a child's experience in visiting a maternity ward
    (where the atmosphere and the surroundings are generally upbeat)
    is liable to be vastly different from a visit to a regular ward (where
    it's liable to range from businesslike and efficient to scary and
    depressing).
    
    	Just my $0.02
    
    Freddie

    I'm not sure what I would do. If GrandPa was having 'MAJOR' surgery and
    it was expected that he would still have lots of tubes/monitors/etc.
    attached 4-5 days after surgery, I would think this would be kind of 
    scary for a 3 yr. old.  I'd probably check with the nurses or other
    relatives/friends that will have seen him before you will. If it seems
    like it was a bit much, I'd probably just explain that 'this' hospital
    doesn't allow children to visit (patients need their rest,etc.). And,
    if the two of them exchange a gift (through you), that would be enough,
    I think. On the other hand, if it would look like GrandPa was just
    'resting' at the hospital, I'd bring your daughter along. I believe I'd
    still send in one parent first to check it out (and be able to give any
    last minute explanations to your daughter). 
    

    I'm going to take a slightly different approach here.  It's interesting
    that you are asking for input of whether you should take your child to
    the hospital.  As others said, ask your grandfather if *he* wants to
    have a visit from his grandchild.  Secondly, studies have shown that
    children tend to "perk up" ill or elderly people. (studies with pets
    have had the same results, but obviously you are not taking your cat or
    dog, but your child). I think it would do you grandfather a great deal
    of good to see his grandchild, but ask HIM first, not your child!
    
    From personal experience, my mother became ill when I was 8, and was
    sick and in and out of hospitals for the rest of her life.  My sister
    and I were extremely upset that we were forbidden to see her because we
    were both under 12.  Finally with a lot of administrative negotiations
    we were allowed to see her in a public corridor, ajacent to the
    elevators (complete lack of privacy which I really resented) for only
    15 minutes. That hospital stay was a two month stay.  She did have a
    telephone at her bedside, and we made it a point to call her at least
    twice a day, which made us feel better, but she always sounded so
    AWFUL, so groggy and just not herself.  Many time I really thought she
    was sicker than she really was because she sounded so badly.
    
    Hope this helps, and more than that I hope that Grampa is better soon!
    
    Lyn

    .8> Hospitals are no place for little kids.
    
    .9> Hospitals are not pleasant places to be period.
    
    These are the kinds of prejudicial statements I want to shield my
    daughter from at all costs.  A child only needs to hear a statement
    like these once, from an otherwise-credible adult, to form a lifelong
    aversion....
    
    Leslie

    
    We, as parents, cannot shield our children from the harsh realities of
    life, including its fragility. I don't understand why some parents try
    to attempt to do this. They will find out, if they want to. JMHO of
    course.
    
    If the hospital allows it, then ask the patient.
    
    If the patient would like to see the child, ask the child.
    
    If all agree then go for it.
    
    I agree with those that suggested a little talk to the child
    beforehand.
    
    I grew up with a father who died young, of heart disease, and spent
    many days in the hospital as a child (not at age 3, though...it wasn't
    allowed). I can truly say it has changed my outlook on life.
    
    Chris
    

    
    I agree with .8 and .9 and don't find them any less credible for
    feeling that way.

    Hmm 1,..2,...3,....

    I have spent *countless* months of my life as a young adult being in
    hospitals throughout New England.

    I recently went through a hospitalization with my son.

    People who are sick or injured (read in pain) go to hospitals.
    Hospitals are *not* pleasant places to be period. I stand by my
    statement. 

    For the time being (until I can reach 10) I am going to give you the
    benefit of the doubt and assume that your reference to me as "an
    otherwise credible adult" is just a poor choice of words.

    			Wendy
               

    Another alternative might be this: Is there a solarium or another
    pleasant place where your daughter and Grandpa might visit with
    one another?  I know they're not private, but it might be better
    for all concerned if the visit doesn't take place in the room.
    Especially if the room is semi-private, since Grandpa's roommate
    might not appreciate the little one's presence.
    
    I'm not wild about hospitals myself.  Like other noters in here,
    my mother was in and out of the hospital all my life.  I can
    remember coming home from school once when I was about 9 years old and
    finding my dad sitting at the dining room table.  He said, "Your
    mother's gone to the hospital," and I remember being afraid that
    she was going to die.  But this is a long story and off the subject
    ---I still can't stand the sound of sirens or the sight/smell of
    ambulances.  I think the original advice -- to ask all concerned,
    including the patient/hospital :-) -- is right on.

    Wendy, obviously you have had continued horrible experiences with
    hospitals.  Bummer.  Major bummer.  You are certainly entitled to your
    abhorrence of all hospitals everywhere.  But to make a flat-out
    proclamation that "hospitals are *not* pleasant places to be period" is
    NOT the same as saying "I hate hospitals"; it's condemning all
    hospitals everywhere.  I do NOT want my child to hear that statement
    from an adult she believes and trusts ("an otherwise credible adult"),
    because that statement is only true FOR YOU.
    
    I'm not going to throw my next birthday party at a hospital, but *I* do
    not find hospitals unpleasant in the least.  Of course there are some
    patients in pain, and some crusty professionals who work there, and
    there are unique smells and sounds... this does not constitute "bad" to
    me.  Alex has been in and out of hospitals, as a visitor, all her life,
    and it's always been an interesting experience for her.  Sometimes the
    timing of the visit was inconvenient, but that wasn't the fault of the 
    Big Bad Hospital.
    
    Leslie

Getting back to the question...

I have brought Evan (4 today!) to several hospitals over the last 4 years.  
I don't know if Mass is different, but in Colorado they don't seem to have
those rules anymore about keeping children away.  Evan has generally done fine
with hospitals, and I echo what some others have said: if GrandPa wants it, then
prepare her and bring her.  Give her *lots* of time to run around and lots of
attention before you get there, though.  Four hours is a long time to be in the
car.  I would be more concerned with the drive than with the hospital itself. 

Let us know how it works out!!!

      Carol

    One point of note don't make your child scared of hospitals by telling
    tales of horror etc, as (god willing it won't happen), but what if
    youre child needs to be admitted, he/she probably will be scared enough
    without thinking he or she is going to a horrible place.
    
    I think you should let Grandpa decide whether he wants a visit by his
    grandchild.
    
    Good luck whatever you decide.
    
    Barbara
    

    One small thing.  If you bring your child, treat her to an ice cream in
    the cafeteria to make a difficult visit a little sweeter.

    Kevin my four year old visited me on the maternity ward last year
    when his younger brother was born. Prior to his visit, we enrolled
    him in a class for older siblings at the hospital. The class was
    for one morning on a Saturday. They had a tour of the maternity
    ward and were instructed on how to hold and change a baby.
    
    This class prepared kevin, just turned four at the time, as to what
    to expect and how to behave in a hospital. It was fortunate that
    he had this experience, because two weeks later his baby brother
    was in Boston's Children's Hospital  NBICU and Michael's prognosis
    was not good for several days. We brought Kevin into the NBICU at
    the Nurses urging us to bring him in the visit after Michael's
    condition was upgraded. Still it was a difficult for Kevin to see
    his baby with tubes and things all over him. He asked tons of questions
    and then decided to go wait with Dad in the family room. 
    
    Kevin also visited Mike in November in the hospital several days
    after his surgery. We thought it was better to wait for Mike to
    be more like himself and be off of the mediation and less tubes
    in him before Kevin saw him.
    
    Be prepared if you do bring your child that the visit will be short
    and your child may become squirmy and restless after 10 minutes or
    so. IMHO - To wait until several days after the surgery and his
    /her grandparent is feeling better and not so mediciated.
    
    Good Luck
    
    - Pat K.

    Wow, I can't believe all the responses! I've been locked up at a
    customer site troubleshooting PATHWORKS for the past three days.
    
    I called the hospital, they allow children of any age, if they are
    immediate family (including grandchildren). My mother-in-law has said
    that Grandpa came through the surgery well. He has been walking around
    a little bit already. It was abdominal surgery, which I understand is
    very painful to make even the slightest move.
    
    Since we are arriving Friday night, and won't attempt a visit until
    Saturday afternoon, I think Hannah will have plenty of time to unwind
    from the 4 hour drive. She has already made a get-well-card. I have not
    mentioned to her that she might not see him, just that he is in the
    hospital resting. She has spoken to him on the phone once. Their usual
    chit-chat.
    
    Grandpa has a private room, so we don't need to worry about disturbing
    a roommate. I certainly will make sure that he is interested in seeing
    her. I don't want to stress him. In general he is a very spunky 68 year
    old. He asked us to smuggle in some martinis when we come visit (which
    we won't do!) We are bringing him the Sports Illustrated swim suit
    edition however.
    
    I'll post a reply here next week and let everyone know how it went.
    Thanks again for all the opinions.
    Jeanne

    Jeanne, it looks like you are going to have a VERY nice visit!  Do
    enjoy your time with gramPa!  You seem to have covered all bases, to
    make the visit pleasant for all concerned, and have even anticipated
    most of the "what ifs".
    
    Now run off and read all the notes on how to "travel with kids", before
    embarking on a 4 hour car ride with a preschooler!!
    
    Enjoy!
    Lyn

    Just some thoughts and opinions:
    
    Growing up my sister had severe asthma and I knew the rules--NO
    children allowed!  So when my sister became extremely ill (read not
    sure if she was going to make it) and I was allowed to visit it
    terrified me!  I was about 7-8 years old and I knew that if they were
    breaking the rules something had to be very wrong.  I would have much
    preferred visiting her for short times on other stays in the hospital
    so that I wouldn't have been so overwhelmed and formed so many strange
    thoughts ahead of time.  It was always such a big mystery as I sat down
    in the waiting room with the nuns while my parents were "upstairs".
    
    My son, now 2.9 months, has visited hospitals several times.  I was in
    the hospital for a week when he was a little over a year old and he
    came to see me daily which I think was beneficial for both him and
    myself.  I had an elderly roommate and she was thrilled in her words,
    "to get some life in these dreary quiet rooms!".  By the end of my stay
    he was able to walk straight to my room from the elevator.  My
    grandfather spent his last days in a hospice and family was very much
    welcomed at all times, and at all ages.  Now this is a place where very
    few people ever leave breathing.  But you know it changed my entire
    familys' out look on illness, death, and dying.  My son was around his 
    Papa John on good days and bad, and saw some things that a lot of
    people may think a two year old shouldn't see but the fact is all of us
    will lose someone we love at one point or another.  We explained things
    at his level as best we could but really there was no need for
    explanations--Josh just loved playing ball and riding in Papa John's
    wheelchair.  My family all feels glad that they were able to spend the
    short time that Papa John had learning about each other.  Would it have
    been better for both of them to not have ever known each other at
    all-for my grandfather had cancer before my son was born and lived for
    another two years.
    
    I think I have gone off on a tangent but this is something that has had
    a big impact on my life and my beliefs.  FWIW-I also take my son
    regularly to my dentist and doctors' appointments (at their
    suggestions) so that these places are not scary and mysterious on the
    occasions he may have to be there.
    
    Regards,
    Pam

    We're back! Granpa looked remarkable well. Especially after he shaved
    and had a shower! It had been six days since his surgery, and he was up
    and around, pushing his IV pole up and down the hall a few times each
    day. Hannah did not seem scared or apprehensive at all. She was a
    little bit of a show-off, but she always does that around her
    grandparents. She tickled Grandpa's leg, and he grabbed her hands and
    wouldn't let go until she said please. (Their typical horsing around).
    
    All in all, I'm glad we went. It was a positive experience for Hannah 
    and Grandpa. Thanks to everyone who helped me think of all the issues.
    
    Regards,
    Jeanne