Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    I was also hoping not to have one done, but ended up needing one. By
    the time I needed it, I didn't care and just wanted to be able to push
    the baby out. I was not able to push my daughter's head out, no matter
    how hard I tried and might have ended up tearing (which is worse than
    having an episiotomy) if they hadn't done it. The other deciding factor
    for the episiotomy was the fact that my daughter started to go into
    fetal distress and they didn't want to wait to see if I could push her
    out without one. 
    
    First they gave me a shot of something (not novacaine, maybe zylacaine,
    I don't remember). This I felt and it kind of burnt a little. It takes
    effect instantly and I felt absolutely nothing with the episiotomy. My
    daughter came out with the next push and when they sewed me up all I
    felt was a tugging, but no pain.
    
    My recovery was not bad. The first few (3-4) days are the worst, I
    guess, but in talking with other people my recovery was pretty quick
    and uneventful. I didn't need much in the way of pain killers and I
    didn't have any problems bending over or sitting. My daughter was born
    at 12:31am on a Friday and I actually had to drive my husband to the
    doctor's on the following Tuesday and didn't have a problem and we have
    a stick shift.
    
    Basically listen to the doctor's, they will tell you when/if you need
    one. As long as they know your feelings they should talk to you before
    actually doing it and you (or your partner) should ask why they feel 
    it needs to be done.
    
    Patty

    My daughter was born in April and I had to have an episiotomy because
    I have a very small frame.  I didn't even know that my doctor did
    one until afterwards.  I was so sore for about 3 weeks. All of your
    friends are right, you don't even know.  That was one of the main
    things I was afraid of.  But fortunately, like I said I didn't even
    know.  They give you novacane (sp)? to num it!  That doesn't even
    hurt at all!  Sometimes with woman there skin is so expandable that
    it stretches on its own, so some woman don't even need it.
    
    Try and relax, enjoy what is about to happen!  This little precious
    baby is going to come into your lives and make your lives wonderful!!
    My daughter is so precious to me, I don't know what life was 
    without her!
    
    Enjoy!  He/She will bring joy into your home!!!!!
    
    Good Luck!  Try not to worry!!!!!
    
    
    Kim
    
    

    I have read that if there is time, and the hospital staff are willing,
    there is a method of placing warm compresses (facecloths maybe) on the
    area where the episiotomy might go beforehand, it will help to stretch
    the area, without tearing, and in many cases makes the incision not
    necessary.  I can't remember my source, but seem to recall it being in
    one of my EMS classes.
    
    I never had to have one, luckily, but my sister inlaw said warm sitz
    baths helped her tremendously.
    
    Don't let this throw you, it's all forgotten once you've got that
    precious bundle in your arms!
    
    Lyn

    	I also had to have an episiotomy and like all of the other people
    responding to this note, I didn't feel them cut me, I believe they gave
    me something first and the midwife cut me during a contraction. I ended
    up with a fourth degree cut (which I guess is large, I'm not sure of
    the measurements used).

    	The first two days are very uncomfortable (I didn't think that I
    was ever going to be able to sit again) but certain things will
    really help:

    	Ask for pain meds if they are available and if you need them. (I
    didn't know that pain meds were available *after* the baby was born, I
    thought that once you delivered, that was it, you couldn't have any
    more meds, once I found out that I could have meds, I took FULL
    advantage of them).
    	
    	Ask for and use something called Epifoam, it's a topical pain
    killer that helps.

    	During the first 24 hours use an ice pack (I know it sounds
    unbelievable that ice would feel *good* down there, but it does)

    	Use the peri-bottle every time you void and use warm water (Sitz
    bath) if it feels good (after the first 24 hours)

    	Ask for a doughnut to sit on, the nurses didn't tell me about this
    until the last day and it would have really helped earlier on (I still
    use mine on occasion but not for the episiotomy but for the hemorrhoids
    that I got).

    	After two days (literally 48 hours) the pain got very tolerable and
    I hardly noticed it (unless I breathed ;-)). Basically, as so many
    others told me, don't worry about it, if you need it, you need it and
    there's nothing you can do to avoid it. At the time that they will be
    making the decision, guaranteed, your mind will be on other things
    anyway.

    	Good luck.

    				Wendy

    I too was paranoid about an episiotomy, thinking the pain would be
    awful and thinking of a tear.  However, when it came time for the baby
    to be born I was grateful to have one and ready.  I did not feel
    anything except  a burning when the shot hit but that was nothing.  I
    used Tucks for my stitches and hemarhoids.  The hemarhoids bothered me
    more.
    
    The only thing to remember is sitz baths - take them 2-3 times a day
    though that is often hard with a new baby.  I did not take them as
    often as I should have.  Also remember your Kegle (sp) excercies.  With
    an episiotomy you lose some muscle control and need to build it up
    again.  I had trouble every time I sneezed, leaking.
    
    MIchelle

    I had an episiotomy with Stephen and at the time thought it was great
    because I would have done anything to get him out.  I felt very
    uncomfortable the next 4 days and I remember thinking I wasn't sure if
    I could make it up the stairs at home.  After a week it really didn't
    bother me, besides you are too busy and excited to mind.
    
    I did not have an episiotomy with Allison, and I ripped terribly. 
    Also, the pain of the ripping was horrible.  It also hurt to sew up,
    even though they gave me novicane.  The recovery was much faster than
    with the episiotomy though.  I'm not sure if you recover faster with
    the second baby anyways.
    
    So, I guess both ways have their miseries.  I wouldn't be overly
    concerned with having an episiotomy, but do the exercises and stretches
    they recommend.  Good luck.
    
    Karin

    I had been pushing for 2 1/2 hours when they finally gave me 
    an episiotomy.  I did have bad dreams about it afterward,
    its scary to think of someone cutting you.  But,    
    the baby came the next push!  What a relief!  Felt just 
    like a spring going "Sproing!"  I had a 4th degree laceration 
    (tore through my rectum) but I'd do it again.  I wanted that 
    baby OUT!  I think next time  I'll be saying "Can I have my 
    episiotomy now?"  Probably will raise a few eyebrows in the 
    delivery room!    

    I was terrified about having an episiotomy, but I can honestly say
    (after my first)I had absolutely no discomfort after the fact.  That maybe
    because as stated in an earlier note, I was given an ice pack that first 
    night.  After my second child/episotomy I was not given an ice pack and
    had some stinging sensations for a few days afterward.
    
    Roberta

    
    I'd like to second the advice in .4 (I think) about icing the (what's 
    the word - peri - mumble?) area for several hours afterwards to reduce 
    the swelling, episiotomy or not.   I wish my L&D nurse had made a point 
    of this as I think it would have helped me ALOT (I didn't require
    one).
    
    Carol

    
    We just went over this in my child birth class...
    
    When they do the episiotomy, you are not given any medication.
    The baby pushing in this area cuts down on your feeling.  They
    give the zylocane, etc. *AFTER* you give birth...(it takes
    a while to work and if the baby is right there, the dr is going
    to go for it and not wait 15-20 minutes for the painkiller to
    kick in...besides you don't feel it anyway)
    
    I'm kind of nervous too and am doing my pereneal messages as well..
    in hopes that I can avoid one...
    
    One thing my instructor told me is there is a great debate going
    on....should you cut or let the woman tear...
    
    This is from a survey where women had both....most preferred to
    tear...much quicker recovery and less discomfort.
    
    I'm guessing that maybe they cut more than you needed an maybe
    deepter which would explain more discomfort.
    
    Of all the things to worry about (and I've worried about most
    everything!) this is no big deal....I dread the hemorroids that
    are associated more than this....
    
    Good luck, and let's both hope we are very 'flexible' 8*)
    
    Kristen
    
    I still think I would opt to have one than tear...I would think that
    you have a greater risk of complications....
    

    I was also hoping to avoid one. Luckily, my doctor was of the opinion
    that tearing is better than cutting (at least in my circumstance). She
    did kinda cluck after when she examined the tear and did say that I
    tore more than she would have needed to cut. She,too, felt that a tear
    would heal better than a cut. It was painful for a few days but it was
    difficult to differentiate the pain of the tear from the hemmarhoids.
    I also used ice for the first few days; it really helped. Follow all
    of Wendy's suggestions (.-2 or 3) and it won't take long to heal. 

    The ONLY thing I dreaded as part of have children was ripping or
    being cut!
    
    I was on an epidural during delivery, so nominally the doctor did not
    consider any type of shot (however, the feeling was very acute below
    the hairline -- what good is this, I thought if my belly is numb and
    my delicate parts are feeling everything! 8-)).
    Halfway through the real work, the doc held up a scalpel and prepared
    (of course you are so darned busy you don't pay much attention) 
    Then she said "gee Monica all I had to do is threaten you and you
    ripped!" I did not feel it at all!. 
    However, the doc did spend a real long time sewing me up; the locals
    she used I DID feel.
    About 10 minutes later when I had been rolled into the ward, I could
    not wait any longer; I told the nurse I had to pee. (But we just 
    emptied you out!" she said --- that's what happens when they've
    fed you nothing but ice-water for the last 24 hours). I was really
    dreading going, expecting incredible pain from the tear.
    
    I was quite surprised! 
    No pain!
    
    So with the squeeze bottle to rinse myself clean and all the sitzbaths,
    I had absolutely NO problem.  
    
    And of course, now I have to go and do it all again!
    
    Monica
    

    My first was a planned c-section so I didn't have any experience
    with epesiotomies.  My second, I did get one.  I had a real problem
    going to the bathroom, because I was afraid of bursting the stitches.
    When I finally went, I didn't even feel the stitches.  The next few
    days at home I was sore sitting, especially when they started drying.
    
    My third child, I did NOT have to be cut.  He said it was a controlled
    enough delivery that he was just going to massage the area.  I did rip
    a little bit, needed about 4 stitches, but the recovery was MUCH
    better.  Didn't hurt when I sat at all.  
    
    - janice

    
    
    What is a "sitz bath" and do you get hemmorhoids with an episiotomy?
    I'm due in February and am dreading this too.  i'm so afraid that
    i'll have to go to the bathroom and of course, that's inevitable...
    Well at least I know that i'm not the only one that had to go through
    with it.
    
    So what's worse, the contractions or the episiotomy or is there
    no comparison?  I haven't even started my child birth classes
    yet so i'm pretty much clueless.  I'm not afraid of labor or
    going into it.  I figure that i'm going to be in pain so i'll
    just have to deal with it the best that I can.  But, i'm not
    lloking for to the episiotomy part..
    
    -chris

I agree with everyone's suggestions so far - ice, donut, sitz baths, and as
much *rest* as possible the first week (lying down was the only comfortable
position for me for at least a week and a half - and getting in and out of bed
were terrible!!)

I did Kiegals, massage, walked regularly - all the "right" things, but ended
up having the epi. AND tearing (4th degree laceration, as well -- OUCH) - but
the baby's large size (9lbs14oz) probably made this inevitable.  In fact, I
think his head was 15cm - so you can see why dialating to 10cm wasn't quite
enough... I don't remember all the details, but I concur with previous notes
that the pain (sting) of the episiotomy is nothing compared to the pushing and
when it's happening, you're greatful for the extra space to get that baby born
already!!

You did the right thing to discuss it with your doctor so s/he knows your
feelings and won't just do one automatically.  I asked my Dr. afterwards why
she didn't just make the epi. bigger and she said she had no idea the baby
was *that* big and that in general her practice's philosophy is that tears
heal quicker (this is because they don't cut sideways into the muscle like
the epi. does - but the downside is they tear back... which can also be quite
a pain in the ___).

Anyway, the body is amazing in it's healing process and after a couple weeks
you should be feeling fine and you'll be showing off your new pride and joy...

-Cori

    
    A sitz bath is a plastic tub that fits over the rim of the toilet bowl.
    You fill it with warm water and then sit on it. It feels wonderful!!!!
    Mine also had a bag that I could fill with warm water and set up so
    that it slowly dripped warm water into the plastic tub (kind of like
    an IV that drips fluid into your vein). I just realized someone might
    take that wrong. The bag has a tube that fits through a hole in the
    plastic tub and the water will flow from the bag into the tub and over
    the overflow opening into the toilet. I took sitz baths 2-3 times a
    day. I usually did it right after I had nursed Anna. I would pass her
    to her father, grab my book and go take my sitz bath. 
    
    Patty

    It sounds as if I am in the minority here.  I had to have an episiotomy
    when my son was born 15 months ago.  The fact that I had natural
    childbirth may have something to do with it, but I could feel him
    cutting me and I could feel the needle go into my skin when he sewed me
    up.  It hurt like h***, and from time to time it still hurts real bad. 
    That was the worst part of the entire childbirth experience for me.  
    
    When I went for my annual checkup a few months back, the doctor told me
    that more often than not woman have recurring pain from the incision
    for up to 2 years afterwards.  I know of other woman who have had
    recurring pain from them also.
    
    On the other hand, the woman I shared my hospital room with didn't have
    one done and tore.  She told me that that hurt worse then with her
    first child when they had given her an episiotomy.
    
    Maybe it depends on how far they cut or something like that.   
    
    Just my experience.

    My mom always gave me the wrong idea -- in her case (which as I found
    out later IS in the minority) with one delivery she tore (with me) and 
    healed quite successfully and relatively painlessly. With the other (my
    brother who was smaller than I), she had to be cut and had endless 
    discomfort.
    Of course all this just proves once again that each person's experience
    each time will be different.
    
    Monica
    

I attended one of my wife's ante-natal classes the other night and this
topic was brought up. The midwife there thought that allowing a tear rather 
than performing an episiotomy would heal quicker and neater, and the Health
Authority don't perform them unless there is fetal distress.


Ian

    	In answer to the question of "do you get hemorrhoids with an
    episiotomy?" The answer is no, you get hemorrhoids with pushing, but
    chances are if you needed an episiotomy, then there was a lot of
    pushing going on and you probably got hemorrhoids also.

    	The night after Spencer was born a nurse came into my room
    announcing that she was going to check my hemorrhoids. I very happily
    told her that I did not have hemorrhoids at which point she looked at
    me and told me that I did now. (everything was sore, I couldn't
    differentiate) I had gone the entire pregnancy without them only to be
    graced with them at the very end.

    	I was and still to a certain degree remain relatively naive about
    hemorrhoids (just make them go away). I do know they hurt, that
    Metamucil has become my best friend and that the people who make jokes
    about hemorrhoids have never had them.

    				Wendy
    	                             

    Chris
    Your sitz bath question got answered but I didn't see the answer to:
    >> do you get hemmorhoids with an episiotomy?
    The hemmorhoids aren't from the episiotomy.  They are from all the
    pushing you do during labor.  Not everyone gets them either.  I had
    them for my son (1st child) but not my daughter (2nd child).  I thought
    the hemmorhoids were worse than the episiotomy (just my opinion).
    Everyone gets nervous.  It's really not that bad and I forgot all about
    it after seeing my beautiful children!
    
    Marie

    Wendy... you and I must have been typing at the same time!
    
    Marie

    I also had an epidural with my delivery 2 years ago.  I had no
    discomfort from the shot and could barely feel a thing.  I had
    pushed for 2 hours when I noticed the doctor reach for that 
    scaple {sp} and I said to myself, sorry buddy, but I am going
    to get this baby out myself.  As he turned away from me, I gave
    the biggest push my strength would muster and pushed her out 
    immediately - no time for cutting and I only took 3 stitches...
    I guess I was lucky.
    
    Yes, the ice packs are wonderful and I did not have any hemmoroids
    at all and never had.  
    
    By the next day, I was walking up and down the halls and within
    two weeks I was riding my exercise bike every day again...3
    weeks after she was born I did my first aerobics class.
    
    Everyone is different but those Keigels are really important!!!
    
    -Patty

Well, I had a VBAC and pushed for over an hour.  The doctor used suction and
I had an episiotomy which I didn't notice in the slightest, before, during, 
after or at all.  The baby was in fetal distress and they probably wouldn't
have gotten him out otherwise.

But boy did I have hemorrhoids, so big that they couldn't find the hole to
put in the suppositories (sorry for the graphics :-)  These came from pushing,
as mentioned, not from the episiotomy.  Hemorrhoids are just like varicose
veins, they come because the walls of the veins are weakened.  They are no fun.
They can be helped with creams, cortison injections, sitting in warm baths and
gently massaging them back in, and surgery.  Mine were the size of a small egg
after a year so they were surgically removed.

I think the whole delivery area is so stressed when the baby is coming out that
the episiotomy generally goes unnoticed.  Afterwards there might be some discom- 
fort but this can also be a result of other kinds of pain like hemorrhoids.  I
know that I couldn't stand for more than about 5 minutes for two months after
the delivery because of discomfort but, again, that was the hemorrhoids.

Even so, delivering a baby has to be the most exciting, rewarding work that a
woman can do.  All the pain is so quickly gone and there is only joy.

Cheryl

    
    I suffered not from the episiotmy itself but from what the dr.
    described as a TAG. It was scar tissue from where they stiched the
    episiotomy. Excess skin I guess. It was very sore and i had to go to
    the Drs. office and get it removed. Origanally I thought I had hemorrhoids
    but it was the above that caused all the pain. But when I got it
    removed I felt fine after that.
    
    sandy

    I'll join the majority here.  I had an episiotomy with my first child
    and healed up fine.  Second one came too fast for my midwife to do one
    and I tore badly!  The pain lasted MUCH longer the second time around -
    I remember trying to put on a pair of slacks and ended up right back in
    a bathrobe because I couldn't stand any pressure down there!  The
    healing from the tear was worse also - ALOT of itching - drove me
    CRAZY!  My third I just needed and very small epi and I didn't even
    notice it at all, before or after.
    
    It's funny what people worry about.  Having an episiotomy was the LAST
    thing I worried about.  Labor pains were my biggest fear.
    
    Linda

    
    Where do you get the tub for sitz bath?  
    
    It's less than 20 days to my due date.  I have been telling myself not 
    to think of the labor pain and epsiotomy (I am sure that I will get it).  
    But my heart beats faster and faster everytime I see a note like this 
    one.  And I just can't help myself reading through every single
    replies.
    

    
    	I got mine at the hospital, it's a plastic tub that you get to take
    home. Ask your nurse about it after you deliver, they should just give
    you one. They also gave me the doughnut but likewise, I had to ask
    first.
    
    	I delivered at Memorial Hospital in Nashua, others hospitals may
    have different procedures.
          
    			Wendy

You may have to ask for the sitz bath unit (you will probably pay for it, too).
Be caureful when you use the "doughnut" for sitting.  As someone described to me
it's like sitting on a toilet (no support directly for the toush) and it can 
increase problems with hemorrhoids.  Your best bet is a soft pillow that will
allow equal support on the sitting area.

After your birth, you will be allowed warm baths.  A sitz bath was givin to me
for my first birth and I did use it.  I didn't even take it out of storage for
the second birth - I just took warm baths and laid back in the tub off the 
buttocks area.

I remember thinking the epi was THE MAJOR thing to avoid.  Well, don't get all
hyped up on this.  Believe me, many of us are grateful for this procedure!  My
first was small (6 lbs), but I sure thought I was dying trying to push him out.
My second was bigger (9 lbs), and I pushed just as long, but it seemed easier.
The epi was done for both - though I think I tore a little more with the second.

As mentioned earlier - the labor pains are the thing to concentrate on.  By the
time you need the epi you'll "kill" for it!

-sandy

    My sitz bath was included in the supplies, along with the water
    pitcher, etc.  No extra.  (St. Joseph's, Nashua)  I didn't use it
    the first two times, but did the third, and healed much faster.  
    
    --bonnie

I delivered at Worcester Memorial and they gave me a sitz bath automatically.
The nurses were great and instructed me on its use.  It does feel good and
helped me with my hemorrhoids as well.  

As others have mentioned, my hemorrhoids were much worse than the episotomy.
I did not feel that at all before or after.  But the pain from the hemorrhoids
was at best extremely uncomfortable.  The nurse even commented to me that she
had never seen such big ones (like I really needed to hear that).  

Does anyone know if there is anything that can be done to avoid getting
hemorrhoids? or at least minimize them?  I'm starting to think about a
2nd and would like to avoid this part of the delivery.

    Don't ask where .... but I had heard once that if you  try to sit down
    more gently, it helps decrease the chance of hemmorrhoids - as opposed
    to just PLOPPING down somewhere.  And never sit for more than 20 mins
    at a time.

    I have not read the rest of the replies here (so many!) but here is my
    experience...
    
    I had a full episiomoty and still tore and ended up with a Grade 4 
    repair job (the worst possible).  I also had a fear of episiotomies,
    but could not have delivered my daughter without one.  I will problably
    have another if/when I have more children.  The healing was not bad.  I
    was uncomfortable for awhile but was up and around and able to drive
    within a week of delivery.  In the hospital, I sat on ice for 3 days
    and when I got home, I took baths as hot as I could with epsom salt in
    the water 3 times a day.  I healed quickly.  
    
    As far as the fear of having one goes, when you're at the point in
    delivering a baby where you need one, you won't care.  You just want to
    get the baby out of you as quickly as possible.  I also don't remember
    feeling the cut being made, but do remember feeling the doctor stitch
    me back together.  He repaired the tear and did not give me enough
    novacaine; the midwife repaired the episiotomy and I did not feel a
    thing (good job!).
    
    Mary
    

    I had the episiotomy with both and to me that was the worst part. 
    Labor was a piece of cake (17 hours the first time, 1.5 hours the
    second) compared to the episiotomy.  The procedure itself was painless
    (that is, with my epidural :-)), but the healing was hell!
    
    The first time I could not sit down or stand up without throbbing.  I
    had to change positions every few minutes.  This lasted about 3 weeks. 
    I couldn't move fast, and walked like an old granny.  I think they
    sewed me up a bit too tight the first time so they did a "repair job"
    the second time, removing lots of scar tissue.  I had similar pain the
    second time but it didn't start until later, and was over sooner (about
    a week).  I took a sitz bath, but didn't have any special tub - just
    sat in the HOT water several times a day.  They used a heat lamp in the
    hospital, after each sitz bath, which helped alot.
    
    I've never heard of or experienced hemorrhoids and was surprised to see
    how common they must be!  Hum....
    
    FWIW,
    Kristen
                                       

    I had "many"--they won't tell me how many, but all I wanted to do was
    push Nathan out.  I t was a good thing to worry about ahead of time,
    but when I was in there, I gave it no thought.  I had/have implicit
    trust in my midwives and their understanding of my perception of my
    desired birth experience and the practical interpretation of that.  I
    did not feel the cuts, and was only minimally discomforted afterwards,
    although it did go on for a few weeks.  
    

    One other thing, warn your husband/significant other about this if they
    are going to be there.  There are a few things that stick out in my
    mind vividly, and this is one of them.  When the doctor cut my wife for
    the epi, I almost hit the floor.  Now, before you label me a squeamish
    let me tell you that I was there through her whole C-section and that
    didn't bother me.  With the epi, the sound of the cutting (they use the 
    scissor type instrument) and seeing it almost made me lose it (pass
    out).  And again to reiterate that I don't quease that easily, I've had
    to check and see if a person was dead before (she was I'm sorry to say)
    after an automobile accident (the vette convertible was on top of her
    and I was one of the first ones on the scene). 
    
    WARN THEM.
    
    Mike

    I agree with you Mike. My husband said the only thing that bothered him
    was the epi. Kind of made him suck a little wind to keep from losing
    it. Everything else he was just absolutely fascinated with. And my
    husband hunts and fishes and does all the cleaning himself, so he too
    is not naturally quesey.
    
    Patty

re: .37, .38

An excellent point.  I had a very similar reaction.  I had a view of surgery 
that was a surgeon with a scalpel neatly and precisely cutting what needed to 
be cut.  I think Mike has described what actually happens vividly enough, and 
I won't elaborate,  because I don't think that the reaction of the observer 
should be much of a factor on on whether to have an epi or not.  And I imagine 
that the sight and (perhaps the) sound of tearing would be even worse to 
observe.

I guess that the generalization is that observing childbirth is a wondrously 
moving experience, but it has some unpleasant moments also, even if everything 
proceeds "normally."

Clay

    I'm another one that has "gone under the knife". I have to admit, I
    didn't know what was going on at that stage, but when I felt the knife,
    I KNEW what the doctor was up to.

    In all honesty, I thought I could with stand pain pretty well, but the
    episiodomy (sp?) drove me CRAZY for about 6 weeks after birth. I
    couldn't sit comfortably for about 2 weeks. If it wasn't for that, I
    felt fine half an hour after birth. I showered, eat dinner and fed
    Daniel all in the first two hours after he was born.

    I will DEFINITELY STRESS NO EPISIODOMY next time, unless it's
    absolutely necessary!

    Norma

    I had an episiotomy _ I did not feel the cut but I started to feel the
    stitching and when I told the Doctor she gave me another shot of
    novacaine. The episiotomy area did not bother me one bit contrary to my
    fears - no problems sitting, no buring, no pain. The pain I had to deal
    with were sore muscles from pushing. After being in labor (back labor)
    for over 27 hours the episiotomy was certainly welcome.

    I had a "peez" with my first, and had no recovery problems, partially
    due to being packed with ice packs for the first 24 hours
    post-delivery. This is not standard procedure for all drs., but it sure
    helped me alot with no swelling, itching etc. Never knew I had
    stitches.
    
    My second, I had no "peez" but had urethral tears - quite painful in
    terms of the number and location of stitches required, and the healing
    was much lengthier and uncomfortable.
    
    

I was remembering back to my first delivery and realized that for me the day
after his birth was awful.  He was born in the early evening after a long labor
and I was tired, so I went right to sleep for the night.  I tried to get out of 
bed the next morning and was very sore.  I used ice packs, sitz baths, etc.  
Then after a quick check by the doctor realized that the stitches weren't really
bothering me - it was those awful "Hem-roids"!!!  After the swelling went down, 
things were much easier!  I would traid stitches for those anyday!!!

-sandy

    My wife had no episiotomy for the first 2 kids, and only 2 stitches
    each time for *very* minor tears. Recovery quick...would've been
    quicker without nasty hemmorrhoids!
    
    Third child was the clincher. Daniel was nearly 9 pounds, but decided
    to be born with his arm over his head, which increased the
    circumference to that of an 11+ pound baby (doctor measured later outo
    of curiosity!). When her doctor realized his arm was coming with his
    head and couldn't push the arm back, he gave her an epi. When Daniel
    finally emerged it was at lightning speed, and she ripped *a lot*
    (fourth degree tear). her doctor told her that if he hadn't done the
    epi, there's no telling where she would have ripped...could've been
    back into the rectum (as it was), or might have gone forward into the
    urethra (which is *much* more serious). She ripped along the path of
    the epi. She did not feel *good* for at least 3 weeks, and carried her
    doughnut as her constant companion for nearly that long.In her opinion
    tears are *horrible*! She claims that the C-section she had for Jacob
    (number 4), was much more comfortable than the recovery after Daniel.
    
    --dave--

    Well I'll respond to my own note.
    
    Caitlin Lee Mahoney was born Dec. 26th at 12:55PM after about 20 hours
    of labor.  The labor was not as bad as I expected and did not become
    unbearable until the last 2 hours after they broke my water.  I only
    had to push for about 35 minutes and she was born.  I did have a small
    episiotomy and didn't feel a thing.  I was up and about the same
    afternoon.  The ice packs really helped alot.  I had minor discomfort
    for the first week and the stitches got tight towards the end of the
    first week but then I didn't feel a thing any longer.  So my experience
    with one was very good.  I even said I would do it again about 15
    minutes after she was born.  Oh, she was 7lbs 8 oz and 21 inches long.

    
    I had an "epi" while delivering Michael...I had stayed home for 9 hours
    of my labor until my contractions were 2 mins apart...when I got to the
    hospital I was only "1" (yes 1) cm diatlated...in another hour, only
    "2" cms...  Then I went from 2-7 in 40 mins..then an hour later he was
    born. Once he started coming, he came. There was no stopping him. 
    
    The doctor was able to give me an epi in time, but I guess I ripped my
    cervix (is this possible) and I had alot of stitches. And it was VERY
    VERY painful being stitched up. I think I screamed almost MORE during
    this than the labor. I'll never forget when the doctor started
    stitching, and I was screaming/crying, my husband turned to me and
    said, "Don't worry honey, it'll be over in a minute"....and the doctor
    turned to him and said, "No it won't, don't tell her that"...  So Steve
    turned back to me and said "Okay honey, it'll just be a *while*". Steve
    said I had "layers" of stitches.
    
    It was a tough recovery. That doughnut was my best friend for 2 weeks.
    The first week was the worst. Tucks pads, and a water bottle were my
    best friends.  I wish I had known about the ice then!
    
    Chris
    

    Chris, how long ago was Michael's delivery? Did you have any lasting
    effects? Yours is probably the most painful tale to date (that I have
    read anyway) -- not that I want a competition here; I still have to
    go through delivery again, and although I was pretty brave after
    Daniel's delivery, I am starting to have anxieties about the next
    time.....
    
    Monica

    Ouch.  
    
    Yes, it's possible, and not uncommon, to tear the cervix. 
    Especially if you were dilated but not fully effaced when Michael
    decided to come out.  
    
    I had to hold off on pushing with David for almost an hour while
    I finished with the last centimeter or so of dilation and the last
    10% of effacing (efficacation?????).  Worst 45 minutes of my life
    to date, and I was screaming that I had to push, and the doctor
    and the nurse were telling me "hold off, hold off, you'll tear
    yourself wide open."  I don't know how I managed it, but I did,
    and after reading your note, I'm glad I did . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    
    Monica, my labor was a total of about 13 hours (not counting 2 days
    before when I went in and got sent home after an hour because it was
    not progressing). I started at 6am and stayed home until 3:30 pm (9hrs)
    until I was 2 mins apart and strong. I got to the hospital and was only 
    1 cm (talk about being bummed out!). They didn't think I was going to 
    deliver until midnight. I only had about 3 hours of HARD labor, and
    only remember having to push for about 20 mins. He just started coming
    really fast. 
    
    At one point, I told the nurse I could feel the head, and I wanted to 
    push...and to call the doctor. She didn't seem to beleive me, and said 
    thats just "how it feels". She asked me if I would feel better if she
    checked me anyways (she had just checked 30 mins ago). I said yes, she
    did, and says "well, guess its time to call the doctor!"  (I was saying
    to myself "SEE, I TOLD YOU!!!"). And I'm pretty sure I delivered within
    the hour after that.  
    
    He just wanted "out" I guess. See, like I said I had gone into false
    labor 2 days before, and got sent home. He was engaged and they could
    feel the top of the head already, but the contractions weren't strong
    enough.  
    
    The only lasting effects I can say I have is that I think they stitched
    me up "too" tight. Sex is still uncomfortable 3 mos later, but getting 
    better. (My husband says he paid the doctor for that extra stitch ;-) )
    
    Not to scare you, but I had to say that my stitching up was *almost* as
    bad as the delivery.... I kept saying "doctor doctor" and he kept
    saying he was only wiping me with the gauze...It felt like the gauze
    was sandpaper!  Also, the novacaine he gave me could of worn off by
    this point I guess...
    
    But...don't worry...I did survive. It is bearable.  The one thing I
    guess that was good about rippig so much is that it didn't bother me
    whatsoever to deliver the placenta. I didn't even feel it or have to
    push it out. 
    
    It was only really sore for about 2 weeks, and got better every day.
    
    I wish you luck with your delivery.
    
    Chris
    

    
    re: Bonnie...
    
    (I didn't read your reply before replying to Monica)
    
    I don't remember them making me wait it out or anyone saying "anything"
    about effacing.  I think it was kind of an "oh sh*t" thing when the
    nurse checked and called the doctor. Cause she RAN out of the room to
    call him.  But no one really told me NOT to push. (But I knew better
    from all my reading and TRIED not to). 
    
    To this day everyone comments on what a STRONG head Michael has. Hes 
    been holding it up when on his belly almost since birth.
    
    -chris
    

    >my husband turned to me and said, "Don't worry honey, it'll be 
    >over in a minute"....and the doctor turned to him and said, 
    >"No it won't, don't tell her that"...  
    
    This is exactly what my first OB said to my husband when he
    tried to tell me that the baby was *almost* out.  I had been
    pushing for 3 hours and in labor for 22.  We were in the 
    delivery room and two nurses were standing on boxes, bearing
    down on my abdomen, trying to help push Amber out. My husband
    was trying to calm me and tell me that would be over in just
    a minute, and the doctor stopped what she was doing to tell
    my husband "no it won't, don't tell her that"...
    
    I changed to a new OB after that and some other 'non-supportive'
    stuff she pulled. 
    
    >It was a tough recovery. That doughnut was my best friend for 2 weeks.
    >The first week was the worst. Tucks pads, and a water bottle were my
    >best friends.  I wish I had known about the ice then!
    
    As it turned out, my 6 week postpartum was done by my OB's partner
    because I couldn't stand the sight of my OB.  The partner gave me
    two more weeks of leave because my OB botched the epi so bad.
    
    The tucks and 'donut' ring were lifesavers.  We ended up using the
    ring as a very secure and handy swim ring the first summer after
    Amber's birth.  She wore it from 2-5 months.  Of course we only used
    it in the wading pool and only when we were right there with her.
    She loved it and we did too because it was so small that she couldn't
    slip out.
    
    Jodi-

    > and two nurses were standing on boxes, bearing
    > down on my abdomen, trying to help push Amber out.
    
    Is this "crustimony proseedcake"?  If so, I sure am glad I had the
    C-sec.  Those nurses wouldn't have lived to see the baby if they'd
    tried that on me!
    
    Leslie

     re .52
    
    	HUH!!???
    
    

    RE: dualing nurses...
    
    Hey, at that point, I would have welcomed a Mac truck rolling
    over me just to get the baby out.  I had been induced, folded, 
    spindled and mutilated.  Two nurses helping things along, was
    the least of worries.  By the way, they even appeared to be 
    shocked by the comment my OB made.  In fact, the more I think 
    about it, it was the nurse that told me that it would only
    be a minute to deliver, not my husband. 
    
    Hey this was 6.5 years ago, the brain gets fuzzy after awhile.
    
    Jodi-

    
    Boy...I guess I lucked out on the pushing aspect of it, I remember just
    starting to get the "hang of it" (pushing, bearing down) when it was
    over.  I remember getting mad at one point when I missed a contraction
    when the pushing began.
    
    But I guess I paid for it with the epi I got.
    
    BTW: My hubby wasn't thrilled with my OB either after that comment
    	 either, and something else he said that I can't remember...  I
    	 just took it that he was trying to be realistic about it, and not
    	 get my hopes up.
    
    Chris
    
    

    >> and two nurses were standing on boxes, bearing
    >> down on my abdomen, trying to help push Amber out.
    
    >Is this "crustimony proseedcake"?
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Winnie-the-Pooh for "customary procedure"
    
    >If so, I sure am glad I had the C-sec.
    
    Because I sure would not have wanted somebody trying to push on my
    belly to get my baby born!!!!!!  I'm not sure which side is winning,
    but I know there's controversy over "external version" (manipulating a
    baby into position when it looks like it's going to be a breech) being
    at best ineffective and at worst possibly harmful.  Having even one
    person pushing on my belly during labor constitutes gross abuse in my
    book.... so...
    
    >Those nurses wouldn't have lived to see the baby if they'd
    >tried that on me!
 
    Leslie

I kept telling myself I wasn't going to write in this string.  :-}

I, too, had to have a nurse pushing down on my belly to get my baby out.
After 30 hours of labor and 3 hours of pushing, I had *no* energy left.
I finally learned the *true* meaning of the word, "exhaustion".

In LaMaze class they told us *not* to hold us our legs with our hands,
but it helped me, so I did it.  Trouble was, I was exhausted (remember that
word!) and I couldn't use *any* muscle (hands, arms, eyelid, you name it).
So Shellie held up one leg and the nurse held up the other leg and I pushed
the best I could (ha!) while a nurse pushed on my abdomen (same nurse? 
I don't know; my eyes had been shut for *hours*).

Yes, I did have an episiotomy...and ripped right past it, too, as well as
ripping up two places up the vagina.  It wasn't pleasant.  :-)
I lost 800 cc's of blood (and the next day my backup doctor wanted me to
go home - ha!).

Strangely enough, I didn't have much trouble with recovery.  Since Evan had
an infection he had to stay in the hospital for a week, and I just "lived"
at the hospital, in the nursing room.  I stayed mostly lying down on the couch,
so that helped a lot.

     Carol

    The nurses weren't doing anything fancy like 'version', they
    were simply "helping" me push.  Carol's right, *exhaustion*
    is one of the reasons I needed help, the other reason was
    that the epidural had been placed too high, which caused me
    to not be able to feel even my fingertips.  This severely
    hampered my ability to push.  I (and the dr) didn't know this
    at the time. It was several weeks postpartum, after I asked her
    why I couldn't feel the baby with my hands (thank goodness they
    didn't hand the baby to me to hold) did I find out that I was 
    actually in danger from having the epidural extend so high.
    
    Jodi-

But this wasn't me doing the pushing.  When I had my caesarian, they had to
get the baby out real fast because I had the "bikini cut" and a placenta gravia
(how gravia, they didn't know).  In any case, the cut was right on top of the 
placenta and I started bleeding a whole lot.  I had an epidural so I was awake
through all of this although I wasn't too aware because of the blood loss.

Anyway, they had to get Dirk out real quick and the assisting surgeon placed his
hands on top of my stomach and PUSHED as my doctor pulled from the other end.
They did this several times, occassionally the pusher had both feet off the
floor.

ccb

    Pushing from the outside must be standard for caesarians--I vividly
    remember how doctor one had both arms in my wife up to the elbow
    (trying to get Alex's head, I guess), and how, when the time came,
    doctor two put her elbow on Barbara's navel area and pushed hard
    while doctor one pulled Alex out.
    
    		-John Bishop

    My sister inlaw related after the birth of her first (in '85) of her
    doctor pushing very hard on her belly to get the baby to deliver.But
    she's the type who would complain about a hangnail!
    
    My only personal experince with this was *after* my first delivery, the
    doctor (according to hubby, I was just too overwhelmed by the fact of
    the inutero death to notice much) first pulled on the cord to help
    delivery the afterbirth, then he and a nurse pushed down on my belly to
    try and expell some of the fluid.  I do remember the nurse telling me
    it might hurt some, but I don't remember it hurting at all.
    
    Lyn 
    

    OK, I'll chalk it up as another common practice I don't agree with
    (circumcision, open coffins, rinsing spaghetti).
    
    Not having been able to see past the drape during Alex's c-sec birth, I
    may even have been the unwitting object of said practice, but I very
    much doubt it--I know my coach would have given me a vivid description
    within a day or two if the manipulation had been as drastic as some
    described here (two people standing on boxes for leverage; pusher's
    feet leaving the floor, etc.).
    
    L>W>

Monica's earlier note reminded me...

Funny how we talk about "would we do it again" and such after the first child.  
I told my husband (after my first delivery) that we were going to adopt ethnic
children from now on.  Then as I went to the hospital for the monitor test with
my second (who was 12 days late at this point) I was laying on the bed with the
monitor strapped to my hugeous belly and suddenly all those memories flooded my
senses and I looked at the attending nurse and my husband and said, "Suddenly,
I remember what this is like and I think I want to go home now!!!"  8^)

-sandy