Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Try RUSURE::NINTENDO
    
    L.

    My youngest started playing around that time.  He was a little
    intimidated by his older brother, but once the older went off to school
    and left the younger home alone with the Nintendo, he picked up speed
    and now enjoys playing any game we bring into the house -- even if he
    doesn't know the rules and roadmaps of it.
    
    -sandy
    

    My two and a half year old, loves playing especially the Duck Hunt and
    actually does quite well, he doesn't quite understand the concept of
    Mario Brothers but does okay with the Driving Cartridge I have.  There
    are a few educational preschool games now put out by fisher price,
    their primary goal is to teach letters and numbers, (this one of the
    things my little one is getting for Christmas) catch the numbers and
    letters, fill in the blanks, matching, etc.
    
    Kim
    

    Kevin is 4 years old.  He's been playing it since he was three
    years old.  When he's younger brother Michael was born this past
    May, Kevin received "Bubbles and Bobbles" from his newborn brother.
    This is a great game for children.  I even like to play it.  We've
    also rented some of the Sesame Street games for him. 
    
    Kevin and his Dad play after dinner at least twice a week for one
    half hour.  They play baseball, basketball and Mario II as well 
    as Bubbles and Bobbles. (It's actually my husband's toy, which I
    brought him for Christmas one year.)
    
    Happy Duck Hunting,
    
    Pat K.
    

Another vote with .5.  Many parents don't like Nintendo, period, or think 
Nintendo's OK, but object to some to of the game cartridges.  My brother in 
law bought one for our kids from Christmas several years ago, and we 
appreciated his asking us ahead of time.

Clay

    My husband went off last Christmas eve, with my protests still ringing
    in his ears, and bought the basic Nintendo, two guns, and the duckhunt
    cartridge.  AJ was almost 4.  Today we still have the one cartridge,
    it's pulled out less than once a month, AJ will only play with it if he
    can sit 9 inches or less from the TV, and for the most part has no
    interest.  The way the frugal part of me sees it, a huge waste of
    money!  
    
    Would I buy more cartriges, probably not.  I am aware there are
    "educational" type cartriges, but I figure they're going to be obsolete
    soon, since Nintendo has introduced a new model for Christmas'91, which
    of course means spend more money, right??
    
    My husband insisted that AJ *had* to have it, because our nephew who is
    three months younger is proficient in the games.  I say baloney, my
    nephew has a sister who is almost two years older who can teach him the
    games, plus gives him a playmate for the games.
    
    Lyn

    I'm on the verge of considering getting our first Nintendo, but of
    course I'm afraid I'll be creating a monster.  Never having used one
    (!), I'll probably be taking suggestions from Alex's friends.
    
    Anyway, Alex and I love the PBS show "Where in the World is Carmen
    Sandiego?" and I know it is derived from Broderbund software's game of
    the same name.  Alex swears she saw it advertised as a Nintendo game. 
    I *did* go over to RUSURE::NINTENDO, and NOIMNOTSURE!  I did a
    dir/title looking for "carmen", "diego", and even "where"; it's not
    mentioned.
    
    Is Carmen only available for PCs?  Is it fabulous, funny, challenging, or 
    is the TV show an improvement?  If it IS available in both media, is
    anything lost or gained in the translation to Nintendo?
    
    And, of course, while I was in NINTENDO I read the hot debate on the
    new 16-bit flavor, which doesn't play the 8-bit tapes.  So even if
    Carmen comes in 8 or 16, I don't know whether to go for the (gack!)
    $200 deck or not.
    
    Sorry for the rambling,
    Leslie

    Camen Sandiego is available as a Ninendo game.  My son played it at a
    friends house and said it was great - He is a BIG fan of the show on
    Nickelodeon!  I personally do not have a Nintendo at home.  We limit TV
    time daily and do not want to encourage that kind of behavior.  He
    get's his fill of it at friends' homes on rainy/wintery days.
    
    Kathy
    
    

    Just a nit but:
    
    The show is on PBS, not Nickelodeon.
    
    L.

    Just a doublenit (polyester leisure suit, maybe), but I've seen the show 
on Nick.  So either there are two shows, or there is one show that is shown on 
both channels.

Clay

    I'm wondering if there are Nintendo games that may class as
    "educational"?  As I said earlier, we haven't expanded beyond the one
    basic game _husband_ purchased with the thing last Christmas. 
    Yesterday the preschool teacher sent home a note that says AJ need help
    with numbers, specifically sequence and "sets" (not sure what that
    meant,personally) but I would not have any objections to spending money
    on something that will help him to learns.
    
    Let's face it, by the time we get home from work it's well into
    darktime, I can't exactly tell the kid to go ride his bike til supper!
    Might as well be doing something to learn!
    
    Lyn

    a-nit-nit-nit, Nickelodeon... ran an episode or two, I think, as a
    promotion in the beginning of the season (kinda like Fox will do with
    Nick or with another major network; Dinosaurs did it); PBS also ran it
    at night a few times so we could all get addicted ;'}  , though their
    usual schedule (in the Boston area) is all daytime: 1:30, repeated at
    5:00, and then a new episode at 5:30.
    
    We get home at 6:00   <:-(     so Carmen is a special treat on sick
    days.  Another good reason to fix our ancient (we're talking
    hand-crank) VCR.
    
    Re -.1,  at least the TV version of WITWI Carmen *is* educational, from
    a geography/what-we-used-to-call-Social-Studies/history point of view. 
    I'd like to hear about other Nintendo games/programs that your
    Parenting'ers also consider educational.  Inquiring Santas want to
    know.
    
    Leslie

    
    Is this a triple nit?  We have played Carmen on our Apple computer - I
    imagine they have a DOS version as well.  It sold for under $50.00.
    We played it New Year's Eve until the we hours - 
    
    Back to the original note, my husband bought our 6 year old son 
    Super Nintendo about a month ago, he has 4 of the games (pricey about $50).
    He hasn't touched it since we bought the ROBIN HOOD video. I've never
    worried about his watching/playing too much video.  He has always
    preferred reading books or magazines and is an excellent student.
    
    Rochelle  

    Check your video rental stores.  Most of them also rent Nintendo
    game cartridges.  Regular employees are a great information source
    about the games.  Usually rentals are $2 or $3 -- an economical way
    to try out a cartridge.  (BTW, one of the stores in our area accepts
    used cartridges in good condition as trade-ins.)
    
    Music lessons:
    There is a keyboard and Nintendo cartridge that, when used together,
    will, according to the manufacturer's claims, teach an adult or
    child, how to play the keyboard or piano.  
    
    I've looked at it.  Child World and Toys 'R Us carry them.  The unit's
    about $300. (Yes, you have to use their keyboard and the main reason I
    haven't bought one is we already have one keyboard.)
    
    I've seen a demo.  Basically, the game displayed on the TV is
    something (I've forgotten what) chasing the music displayed on a staff.
    The note is eaten when you press the correct key and the student learns
    to play a variety of music. 
    
    Does anybody have any experience with this one?  Yes, when I get around
    to it, I'll check the Nintendo notes for info too.

No personal experience here -- just pure personal prejudice speaking;
but I tend to regard television of any sort as questionable (at best)
for small children; and from all I've heard, computer games such as
Nintendo magnify many of the bad features of television.  I would not
want my child addicted to sitting in front of a screen, devoting hours
a day to absorbing the program that someone else had prepared for her.
I think there are much better (and "healthier") ways for a child to
spend her time -- ways that involve creating her own inner world, instead
of living in someone else's (and that's not even considering the *content*
of that world).

But I'm obviously in a tiny minority on this.  As they say, your mileage
may vary.

	-Neil

Neil:

I would NOT say you're a "TINY" minority (who's against Nitendo), as I do
believe a lot of parents today ARE against Nitendo, however, "unfortunately"
I believe that there still is a "majority" who do support Nitendo and of that
majority I have observed that:

.  the parents LOVE Nitendo
.  the parents LOVE TV; and/or
.  it's perceived to be a wonderful babysitter

No one has ever 'fessed up to its educational content!!!  Some may go so
far as to say it offers "physical development"  (which I disagree that
mastering a joy stick improves a child's physical skills!) or worst yet!,
Nitendo improves dexterity and concentration!!! (and the parent will then
go on to explain how his kid holds the record for blowing up artilliary
and "bad guys").  Definately not my idea of "improved development"!

I am still with you on this one, Neil ... you won't find Nitendo in our
home EITHER!

Dottie

We don't have a Nintendo but each of our boys (11 ands 13) have an Atari.  We
also control the amount of televison they watch but I think it is unrealistic
to say absolutely no televison if there is a televison in thehouse at all.

I find that using the Atari, and they do use it mostly although no longer
exclusively for games, has given them computer awareness skills they would
not otherwise have.  They are now often teaching their teachers on how to use
systems.  They know how to make backups, what it means to boot, why they have
to boot from the boot disk for certain games, what a virus is, etc.

They also learn skills specific to certain games.  They learn logic from 
playing adventure games.  My boys have learned to read and write English from
these games.  They learn geography from the Flight Simulator.  My younger boy 
loves SIM City and has learned about budgetting and taxes, city planning, 
population growth, etc.

And they never play this to the exclusion of other things.  It is one of the 
many activities that I think a normal child does.  They love basketball, 
cycling, rough housing, music, and of course televison.  It certainly doesn't 
replace reading, an activity that they usually indulge in for the half hour or
so before they go to sleep at night.

And it makes for great socializing with their friends.  This weekend I had 
between 3 and 9 boys around the house.  They were either playing basketball,
watching the "big" match on televsion, playing olympics on the Atari, or just
sitting around having a gab session (in between eating us out of house and
home :-)

The things they liked doing at three or four with a Macintosh was drawing.  The
lack of color was a significant problem so they usually added that in later.  My
oldest boy just completed his first major school paper on the computer.

Cheryl

    Lyn,
    
    There are 2 Sesame Street cartridges available that I think are
    **GREAT**!!!  Actually, I've been known to argue the boys for a chance
    to play .....
    
    One deals with numbers and shapes and the other with letters and
    matching.  They feature the Sesame Street characters, which the kids
    *LOVE*, and are simple and clear for them to understand.
    
    The age recommendation probably goes up to about 6, but they're a LOT
    of fun!!!  
    
    The alphabet one  (Sesame Street ABCs) has a few different games, such
    as matching the displayed letter (upper and lower case) from an
    assortment of other letters, spelling simple words, guessing the hidden
    letter and a puzzle game (I think).  The letters spin around on a
    ferris wheel (you control how fast the ferris wheel spins), and in the
    corner of the screen is the letter you need to match.  When that letter
    is at the bottom of the wheel, press the button, it bounces down and
    'dings' if it's right or 'buzzes' if it's wrong.  Spelling is the same
    idea - a 3-4 letter word is displayed, and you have to choose the
    letters in the proper order.  It's really *FUN*!
    
    The number one (Sesame Street 123s) involves counting and matching the
    number with the amount.  I forget exactly, but it'll display 3 cherries
    and you have to pick the number 3 ... or something like that.  And it
    deals with simple addition as well.  
    
    One of the tapes also has a shape-matching/building game.  It will
    build a wagon (or something else) out of basic shapes.  The shapes are
    displayed, and you have to pick the shapes you need to rebuild the
    wagon (or whatever).  That's GREAT!!
    
    Anyway, you should be able to get either tape for ~$15.00-$20.00 almost
    anywhere these days (big toy stores tend to be cheaper), and I would
    STRONGLY urge you to get both of them.  The puzzle games on both of
    them are complicated enough to make YOU think about it - and simple
    enough so that it's NOT aggravating!
    
    Also, if you're looking for other problem-solving type games, I'd
    suggest The Adventures of LOLO, which moves at your own pace, and is
    basically a "Solve the maze" to get Lolo through the room.  At 5 Chris
    was doing REAL well at this, with very little help and VERY little
    frustration (surprising for him).
    
    Good Luck!  We turned into Nintendo-holics for the first few months,
    and now we need to scrape off the dust to use it ... but the kids still
    enjoy it!
    
    Patty

    Don't knock it till you know more. I happen to be a non-TV watcher. I
    hate games, I'm probably the last person in the world my friends would
    have expected to buy a Nintendo. I personally hate it, but my 6 year
    old loves it.
    
    I bought it for various reasons. One was that His peers had it, 
    and when he went to
    their house he never got a chance to play because he was no good at it.
    Catch 22. He was miserable.
    
    An interesting thing happened. No one plays videos in my house anymore (something I
    had to limit) unless I suggest it.  The Nintendo is on only a 
    reasonable amount of time.
    My son (in Readiness) has learned to read long passages in the Faxanadu
    game. He limits his own use, I've limited it only a few times. I think
    it is good for eye-hand coordination, and I'm learning about male
    bonding ;-)  My son now has another medium for communication with the older
    kids.
    
    All in all, I have no complaints about Nintendo, but I wouldn't buy
    most of the games cause they're too violent for me (this is a person
    who edited Bambi and Mary Poppins so her kids wouldn't see bad things!)
    
    Gale
    
    
    PS. Babysitters like my house because of the Nintendo!