Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I don't have a solution, but I have a similiar situation where the girl
    next door has asked Pete if he wants to play sex.  I don't believe
    neither really know what they are talking about, but the girl will say
    "let's go behind the shed".  So I'm not sure.  They kids are 5 1/2 and
    6.  She is constantly around teenage cousins (not sure that matters).
    
    When I first heard her ask this, I first had to regain my composure,
    then I sat them both down and we had the "body talk".  This girl is
    not my child, so I kept it basic.  I didn't let on that I knew what was
    going on, although we all knew that we all knew (something like that).
    
    This girl is being babysat by her aunt next door, whom I have not
    spoken to about this.  Next time it happens, I will speak to her.  Now
    she will say "let's pretend we're married".  I cannot constantly
    monitor thier conversations and I try to be involved when they play,
    but it's not always possible.
    
    I talk to Pete about his body and hope that he can come to me with
    questions.  I don't think he is really too impressed with much of this,
    as I've just stopped nursing my younger son so he has had some
    "female/motherly exposure" already.
    

    I don't think this is appropriate play for the elementary school
    set.  Dr. Spock says that by this time, kids are, or should be,
    directing their energies toward schoolwork, their peers, and that
    kind of thing.  I would be real concerned about a kid in this age
    group who was acting out, wanting to "compare" body parts, etc.
    Talk to your pedi, but it seems to me that 6-10 years is much too
    old for this behavior.

    re.2
    
    No, I think 6-10 is very much the curious age for these type of
    questions or activities.  I speak for myself at that age, as well
    as the children I knew then and now.
    
    The "where did I come from" question seems to pop up around 6 yrs.
    old and the more intricate their questions become thereafter.

	I agree with .3.

	I have vivid memories of a session of "I'll show you mine if you show me 
yours" with my best friend Curtis in 1st or 2nd grade.  (I have only one sister,
no brothers, and I stayed at home with my Mom till I went to school, so this was 
really my first exposure to the Oppposite Sex of my own age.)

	We just basically looked said "huh." and went back to arguing over who 
got to be Batman and who had to be Robin.  Didn't scar me for life.  And as 
far as I can tell I'm not a sexual deviate... :-)

Tracey

re: .0, .3

     I am confused as to what issue is being discussed.  .3 seems to be
addressing questions from a child/pre-teen.  .0 seems to be addressing acting
out the answers.
     Also, I have a problem with the age group that was specified (6 - 10). 
I think that what is appropriate, harmless, or even beneficial at 6 is very,
very, different than what is appropriate, harmless, or even beneficial at 10. 
    As for the acting out the answers with other children the same age, I
think that 6 is about the upper end of the age group at which childlike
curiosity is what's going on.  But I think that what is starting to go on at
10 is oftentimes, unfortunately, "adult" sexual behavior.  My 11 year old
daughter has classmates that talk in terms of "boyfriends", engage in
discussions about sex, knowing what the terminology means, call boys at home,
and use vulgar expressions (to the boys), once again knowing full well what
the expressions mean.  There was an article in Newsweek a few weeks ago about
the dramatic increase of sexually-based emotional problems (such as
promiscuous behavior, or feelings that self worth is dependent on having a
boyfriend) in PRE-teenage girls.
     As mentioned in another note, many 10 year olds are close to, or maybe
are, experiencing puberty -- old enough to have real sexual desires.       
If a 6 year old were "French kissing" and acting out sex scenes, I would be
on guard, but probably not alarmed.  I think that most parents have a feel
for when it's apparent when a kid knows what s/he is doing or not.  If a 10
year old were doing the same thing, I would be bothered; I think that 10 is
far too old for such behavior to be innocent, naive, childlike curiosity,
and ought not be taken lightly.
     As for the questions and discusssions, I think that they need to be
addressed as they are asked.  It seems to me the older a child is, the more
"accurate" the discussion needs to be, the more detail you need to go into,
the more you need to read between the lines as to what they are really
asking, and the more initiative the parent needs to take if they sense that
a discussion that ought to have taken place hasn't.

Clay   

    I had a rather upsetting call today from my babysitter (who also
    happens to be my sister-in-law) regarding my five year old son
    Daniel.  She said that she allowed him to go out to play in front
    of the house with another little boy Anthony who is about 4.  
    She noticed after a few minutes that it was very quiet so she
    went to investigate.  After calling Daniel's name a few times
    he appeared from the side of a neighbor's house looking very
    embarassed and scared.  When my sister-in-law pressed him for 
    what was going on he said that he was kissing Anthony.  (ok
    no real big deal there...) Then Anthony appeared and she discovered
    that they had ALSO been "kissing" each other's genitals.  When
    she asked Daniel where he got this, of course he said it was Anthony's
    idea....and then he also said that he had "seen" it on TV over the
    weekend.  The best I can remember about our TV viewing is that I found
    that Daniel had switched the channel to the movie channel, and I 
    found that he was watching a really stupid movie about a woman (dressed
    in garters and the whole sexy deal) who was attempting to seduce a
    man who really wasn't interested.  When I realized what was on the
    tube I turned the channel back to Nickelodeon.  That was the end of
    it.  Other than some kissing and hugging, there wasn't anything at
    all that could've been misconstrued as oral sex-not even close.
    
    It could be that Anthony was a contributor to this-I really will
    probably never know, but needless to say I am very concerned.  
    I really do wonder where Daniel might've seen this, and further more
    why he thought it was ok to do-his idea or not.  I am pretty close
    to calling EAP for a referral to a psychologist, but I don't want
    to freak out over something that may just require a simple talking-to.
    By the same token I don't want to over-simplify the problem either.
    
    Any advice????  This is my first/only-born so I am hungry for any
    advice any of you may be able to offer.....
    
    -Elizabeth
    
    (delrey::mercado_el....or @cwo)
    
    

    Isn't this the classic age for "playing doctor"? I would probably be
    alarmed too...but, I think I would call the pediatrician first (if you
    feel comfortable doing so) just to get the viewpoint of someone who
    knows what kids generally do at this age/stage. 
    
    When kids are at the right stage for certain things (sexual curiosity,
    in this case) I imagine they can pick up ideas easily, then start
    experimenting with very little stimulus from the environment. 
    
    I would be pleased that he told your sitter what was happening, and
    didn't feel so ashamed that he had to lie.
    
    Lucy

I think it's a good idea to call the pediatrician and find out what
kids normally do around this age.  It will probably help you relax about it.

If it were my kid, I would also find out the name of that movie and rent it -
to see what was on the screen *before* I saw it (while he was watching it).
Maybe it was more graphic than you realized, or more suggestive.

It's always possible, of course, that Anthony got into some porn somehow,
or got told something by an older sibling, walked in on his parents
at an intimate moment, or (worst case) was sexually abused.  The latter is 
not *likely*, so I wouldn't worry too much about it, but you can just keep
your eyes open for Anthony's sake, as well as that of your own child.

For now, don't worry a lot.  Don't bother seeing a therapist; I think it would
put more importance on the event than the event merited.  If Daniel had been
doing this with someone several years older than himself, *then*, IMO, it would
be time to have him talk with (play at the office of) a therapist.

        Carol

    Oh this is the age alright!  I have a (now) 6 year old who picked up
    quite a bit from a little girl down the street.  I finally had to stop
    all of their "in room alone" playing altogether.  They had been playing
    "doctor" in the basement.  I told them no more playing doctor without
    clothes on.  They could play but to undress was inappropropriate for
    two people who were not family.  (This didn't need more explanation,
    because my son definately understood what I meant.)  Anyway - he came
    to me one day and told me he was going to play wood doctor with Becca
    (he explained that they would be fixing wood).  Well, after they had
    been downstairs awhile, I decided to check up on them.  Well, the game
    had no dress code (or should I say a no dress on code).  I told Becca
    she and Kyle knew the rules and that if she insisted on playing these
    games she is not allowed in our house anymore and Kyle was not allowed
    in hers.  (This was not too strict since I knew they were moving in 6
    weeks.)  If she was to be staying around, I would have handled it
    differently - supervised play only, etc.  I also told her parents that
    I did not want them to play in the house unsupervised and if they
    couldn't watch them to have them come to my house (she had an infant
    which I realize took up alot of time for her).  They agreed, but we
    never really saw Becca at our door again - they did ride bikes and such
    but there was no more in house playing.
    
    I would calmly let the child know that this is inappropriate play and
    that you know he didn't realize it was wrong.  After all we don't
    usually set rules and recommendations until there has been an
    infraction.  Don't panic and above all don't loose the innocence that
    caused him to come to you with this information.  It will be needed
    later !!!  Have the sitter control their play for awhile until this
    facination passes.  Since Becca has moved from our neighborhood, we
    don't have these concerns anymore.  I knew she was the instigator, but
    didn't want to point any fingers, so I took as much of the "blame" as I
    expected her parents to take.  It all worked out for us...I hope it
    does for you.
    
    Good luck in your "talk" with your child and with the sitter.  If you
    handle it matter-of-factly it will probably go away in a small matter
    of time.
    
    -sandy
    

    If I'm not mistaken... it was "Tootsie", with Dustin Hoffman!  There
    were no scenes that showed "anything" in that movie!  I happen to catch
    just the end of it (having seen it many times before), that's how I
    know what movie was on HBO this weekend!
    
    I think I would wonder about the other little boy, and where he
    possibly got this idea!  Your son could be taking the blame to protect
    his friend!

    I really do appreciate all of your input!  This is the first time I've
    noted in this conference and I have to say that it was a relief to hear
    similar stories from other parents.  I spoke with Daniel at length
    last night (in a very calm manner) and made it known what was
    appropriate, and also how he should never touch anyone's private parts,
    much less let someone touch his.  I told him -he- can touch his own
    private parts if he wants to, but that that is a private thing.  Anyway
    it was an open talk and he seemed to get the idea....we'll see!  
    My husband got home late, so he spoke with him this morning and was
    also calm (after I made sure that he cooled his jets on the idea that
    "oh no-this means he's gay!").  Personally I think that most kids at
    this age are in kind of a "unisex" mode and I certainly wouldn't be
    ready to draw any conclusions about his future choice of lifestyle.
    
    About the movie-it wasn't Tootsie, I would have recognized that!!! ;)
    
    Thanks again all!
    
    -Elizabeth
    

    >this age are in kind of a "unisex" mode and I certainly wouldn't be
    >ready to draw any conclusions about his future choice of lifestyle.
    
    Sexual orientation isn't a choice.
    
    Other than the above, you're doing just fine!
    
    Bob
    

    To the basenoter - Be sure you tell him that the doctor can touch his
    private parts - a friend of ours told her son that no one could touch
    his privates, and he refused to let the doctor examine him at his next
    physical !

    I would add that the doctor can touch the child's genitals while being
    examined, but at no other time.  Even a doctor can molest a child.  I
    know I've read advice about telling the child if they feel
    uncomfortable (icky, in their language) then it shouldn't be happening.
    
    Since my daughter is only 22 months, this hasn't been an issue, yet.
    
    judy  

    It seems that particular age is perfect for experientation and learning
    and curosity (and very normal).  I can't imagine it being bad, really.
      Especially between kids in this age bracket.
    
    I remeber when I was about 6, this girlfriend of mine and I were very
    curious about boys' bodies.  So we talked this 4 year old boy into pulling
    down his pants.  We just wanted to see his penis.  Nothing ever came of
    it.  I think, if my parents had come out and told me how bad or wrong
    that was, I would have believed that our private parts were nasty
    rather than necessary.  
    
    cindy

    Thanks Bob for the correction on "choice of lifestyle"- I should've
    said it differently like maybe "whatever sexual orientation he ends
    up having".  I agree that this is not a "choice".  Bad "choice" of
    words!!!
    
    It's funny-one of you (can't remember which reply now!!) mentioned
    explaining that doctors can touch during an exam.  I had to bring
    Daniel just recently for his 5-year/DPT/MMR shots and general
    checkup.  This is the first time that the doctor has done the
    "turn your head and cough" routine on Daniel.  When the doctor
    informed me that he needed to do this I told Daniel that "the doctor
    needs to check out your private parts to be sure everything looks
    good".  Daniel gave me this strange look like "are you kidding"?
    Then it hit me......I have had several talks about the possibility
    that a person (man/woman/other kid-whatever) might try to touch
    his private parts, or ask him to touch them, and that if it ever
    happened to say "NO" and run to tell someone in his family like
    mommy or daddy.  Daniel was remembering those talks and was looking
    to me for clarification.  So, then I said "it's okay for the doctor
    to check you as long as your mommy or daddy are with you".  I have
    heard that a way that molesters get a child to comply is by posing
    as a doctor.  
    
    After I said that he relaxed and let the doctor do his thing.
    

    - Elizabeth