Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Have you considered part-time day care?
    
    Our 20 month-old daughter was with a neighbor during the afternoons
    for most of the first year.  (She was with me in the morning.) 
    
    After the first year, she started going to a learning center two 
    mornings.  She was in the infant room, which meant she could nap
    when she needed to, could have a bottle if she wanted to and was 
    one of usually five or six children with two adults.
    
    Last month she graduated to the toddler room, and she has adjusted
    so well that she will start full-time, every day next week.  The same
    time my neighbor's children (12 and 9 year-old boys) go back to school.
    We decided to change to full-time at the learning center because she
    loves playing with the other children, and the activities are great
    opportunities for her to explore.
    
    Now, a couple of things:
    
    1. It's not easy finding a day care or learning center that takes
    	part-time children on a regular basis.  LC's staff for full-time
    	and they have to juggle schedules to admit part-timers.  Therefore,
    	they charge more, and usually have less flexible hours.
    
    2.	Some day care centers accept "drop-off" children, and thus can do
    	part-time.  We did not want this, because we felt the exposure to
    	whatever - germs, disease, etc. - would be greater.
    
    3.	Yes, changing from the one-on-one care to a center with many
    	children is going to expose your daughter to more whatever,
    	probably colds.  But, if you and your husband work, you both
    	potentially can bring home germs too.
    
    Good luck, I know you'll find the right solution, it just may take
    time and a lot of interviewing.
    
    -Nancy

    IMO - I think 13 months is a little young to be looking for alot of
    social interaction.  If you are already taking her to a play group and
    spending time with her when you have days off, she must be thriving on
    that.  We were lucky not to have to use daycare when my kids were young
    - my youngest had to go when he was 20 months old.  Ideally, I would
    prefer to have little ones (under 2) at home with a parent or like in
    your situation, nanny.  Once they hit two they are really developing
    into little persons and social skills become important.  I think you
    are giving her enough interaction with play groups.   We had a foster
    baby who went to day care from 12 months to 16 months (his term with
    us) and when they moved him from the infant room to the toddler room he
    did not thrive on the schedule and the fact that he had to follow the
    strict rules.  He wanted his bottle, his naps, his toys on his own
    terms.  
    
    again JMHO (just my humble opinon)
    -sandy
    

    It all depends on the child.  If your daughter is showing signs of
    being bored at home, or of needing more contact with other kids,
    then of course take steps to see that she gets it.  (.1 seems like
    a good strategy.)  But if she's doing well,  if she seems healthy
    and happy, and isn't having any trouble in the play groups you go
    to, I wouldn't make any changes. 
    
    As Sandy says in .2, 13 months is still young.  I wouldn't worry
    about it for at least another year.  And as long as she's seeing
    other kids regularly and seems to be enjoying their company and
    not bored at home, you might never have to worry about it.  
    
    --bonnie

    Cida,
    
    We kept Christopher home for about his first 2.5 years, minimal
    interaction with other kids.  In retrospect, I'd say that by about 2
    you should be getting them used to other kids.  It took him a little
    while to adjust, but to see him now, you'd never know there was ever a
    problem!
    
    If she is doing well with the time that she does spend with other kids,
    I wouldn't worry.  At that age, about all they do is play beside other
    children, and not usually WITH other children.  The attention and
    security that she has now with you and her nanny is something that will
    affect her forever - I'd say stay with what you have for now.  Think
    about it again next year - listen to what Kristine wants!
    
    Has it REALLY been 13 months?!?!?!????
    
    Patty

On my way into work Tuesday the news reporter on my radio station quoted
a study that was done, in which the results were (may not be exact wording):

	Children who grew up in daycare centers were concluded to have
	more friends, react better in social situations, and were
	more emotionally stable than those who did not.  Results were better
	with increased time in daycare.  This was the conclusion made
	by their mothers.

I don't know the source of the study, but he usually reports news items that
I find in the Dallas Morning News, so it would likely be in there....

FWIW

    
    RE: .5
    
    "This was the conclusion made by their mothers".   Why doesn't this
    surprise me?
    
    cj :-)

    Just my opinion, from experience here.  AJ was in and out of daycare,
    part time, full time and not all until he was about 18 months.  I give
    daycare credit for bringing him out of his shell. For him/us it was a
    positive experience.  As examples I offer the fact that because of (a
    home) daycare environment he learned to separate from us without
    anxiety, gave up the bottle by his choice, learned that sitting on the
    potty was a new, great idea, and by my definition he changed from the
    shy, clingy kid to an outgoing boy with a real positive attitude.  His
    vocabulary increased tremendously, and he verbalized much better than I
    ever thought possible.  After all where else could he have learned
    about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the Little Mermaid, and Land Before
    time?  Just kidding on that of course, but seriously it has kept him
    from becoming a Sesamie Street, or Mr. Rogers "Junkie"!!  It did take
    some adjustment on my part to pick him up and see him dirty from
    playing, but that was an adjustment on my part.  I realized this too
    was just another part of growing up.  I soon learned that if I wanted
    to take him anywhere after pick up to keep a wet facecloth in a ziplock
    bag in the car, with a fresh change of clothes.  It's that simple!
    
    Of course everytime he give me some flip answer back my favorite phrase
    is "he's turning into a daycare brat", but he's really just being a
    BOY!!
    
    Don't forget the other huge benefit of daycare....you, the parent, get
    the *priviledge* of talking to GROWNUPS, while at work!!
    
    Lyn

    Since my daughter is only 10 months, I can't address the issues raised
    by parents of older toddlers.  But for parents-to-be, here is how I
    chose daycare for my newborn.  All opinions are my own, of course.
    
    1.  Price.  I could not afford a nanny, and didn't want someone in my
    house all day.  That left me with daycare outside my home.  I also
    believe the socialization is important starting at about 10 months.
    
    2.  A.) Daycare center (large group setting with a staff) versus 
    B.) home-based-daycare (small diverse group with one provider).
    
            Advantages                     Disadvantages
    
    A.  * Availability - staff fill in     * Cost - about $25 more per week
           for each other when sick        * I must supply all food, always
        * Child won't need transition      * Somewhat impersonal
          from B. to A.                    * Staff may rotate
        * Nice playground                  * No quiet place for sleeping
    					   * Inflexible closing time
    
    B.  * Intimacy - child can form        * Availability can be problem
          attachment to one person         * Transition eventually needed
        * Lower cost                         to B.
        * All toddler food supplied        * Must negotiate nutrition
                                             issues
    
    I settled on option B.  For me, the deciding factor was my belief that
    babies need to form a close bond with one person, not a staff.  My
    daycare provider is that one person when Dad or I are not around. 
    
    I must admit that the cost certainly was a factor as well.  The
    difference is over $1000 per year..  
    
    I believe that my daughter will handle the transition to a center very
    well, provided she is ready to do so.  My provider recommended that she
    transition to a center at age 3 or 4, to give her a nursery school type
    environment.  This is what I plan to do.
    
    I believe that for babies and toddlers, emotional attachment is the
    most important thing, along with basic socialization and a grassy yard
    to play in.  Education will be more important later, along with
    socializing in a larger group.  I will look for a center that stresses
    learning AND fun, without pushing the formal skills of reading or
    arithmetic, which can wait until age 5 or 6.
    
    Laura
                                                                      

    Laura brought up a point, that's sparked some curiosity in me.  
    
    If home daycare providers can provide their services cheaper, and
    provide meal, which I assume is under the federal food subsidy program
    for daycare, why can't the daycare and preschool centers qualify for
    the food program, and provide meals for the children?
    
    I know one of the noter's spouse is a daycare provider, maybe someone
    has the answer to my question.  It would make my morning so much easier
    if I could drop him off and let them give him breakfast, and along the
    same lines, not have to pack a lunch that comes home 2/3 uneaten.
    
    Lyn

    
    RE: .5 
    
    I came across a similiar topic in my local newspaper, Nashua's
    Telegraph.  The study was done by some university and the finding
    was similiar to .5.  The emphasis was the daycare center must be
    one of *quality*, have *low staff turnover* and *well trained 
    teachers*.  The acticle did not further define 'quality'.

I found the information in .8 interesting, in that my experience has been
almost exactly opposite!

(1) My daycare provider provides lunch and two snacks.  Breakfast is available
for $1 per day extra.  If I call ahead and tell them I'm going somewhere right
from picking up the girls, they will whip up something for dinner.

(2) Flexibility on time.  My center is open from 6:30 AM to 6:30 PM (infant
room closes at 6:15).  Most home care wanted the kids picked up by 6PM at
the latest.  However, many centers are the same way.

(3) I found the "no quiet place for sleeping" to be an advantage.  My girls can
sleep in just about any environment at all.  We have never tried to have total
silence at home while they are sleeping, but I imagine it has alot to do with
the daycare environment (beyond the infant room, the naps are pretty much
scheduled anyways, so it is quiet)

I guess it is difficult to generalize!

Kristen

    My daycare center is the same as in note 1106.11.  Breakfast, snacks,
    lunch (hot lunch in winter) no extra charge.  They all sleep on mats,
    it really is unbelieveable that they can get the kids to actually take
    naps in a group like they do!  There are three teachers to 18 children
    so they really do have a pretty close relationship, I like the larger 
    play groups, they really do have a lot fun, during the nice weather
    they spend a great deal of time outside, they also do different crafts
    and projects every day.

    re: .9 (Question on Daycare centers providing meals)
    
    I think this might be based on town ordinances (i.e. Health and Fire
    Codes). When I was looking for daycare for my daughter, I seem to
    remember one center telling me that they were one of the only ones in
    the area that had a permit to PREPARE food. Maybe the requirement for a
    permit makes a distinction if they are just handing out parent-prepared
    meals (fridge only) or warming them up (microwave) or utilizing a 
    full-blown kitchen to make all the meals themselves. 

Regarding bonding with one person.....

I have a hard time subscribing to that one, simply because my ideal would be
for a bond with two people (mother and father) MINIMUM.  In some cultures
where generations live together a child is cared for by multiple adults, with
no apparent negative impact (IMO many are emotionally more healthy).

But if you do subscribe to that theory, I still believe it is possible to bond
with one (or few) adults in a daycare environment.  Both of my children have
had their "favorite teacher" in their class, with whom they have had a much
stronger bond than the others.  It tends to equal out between teachers for the 
most part.

This is what happened yesterday.

Kimmi Jo (9 mos) is in the infant room, with a small divider to the other
side (12-24 mos).  About half of the time I go to get her, I'll find her on
the "big kids" side of the room because they say that's where she prefers to
be.  Well yesterday I went to get her, and then we went to get Kati (2 yrs)
in her room.  "Miss Edwina" (normally teacher for 12-24 mos) was substituting
in Kati's room, so Kimmi Jo hadn't seen her all day.  The minute she spotted
Miss Edwina she dove out of my arms into hers.  After they had their hugs I
tried to get her to come back to me.  NO WAY - she wanted to stay right where
she was at.

This was my first taste of what my husband (and other family members and 
friends) must go through all the time.  Both of my girls are mommy's girls and
have never rejected me for ANYONE.  So while I felt a bit rejected, I also
understood that Kimmi Jo has a bond with Miss Edwina and it is probably good.

FWIW

Hi,

Thank you all for your replies.  We decided to keep our current nanny until
December or January (if she stays) and then look for a Home care or a
Day Care Center.  We think that by then, Kristine will be around 18 months
old, and she may not need two naps a day anymore and won't be taking so
many bottles, etc and the interaction with others kids will be fun for her.

We are also thinking of taking her to a Home Day Care for part time (one day 
a week) as was suggested in a previous note to see how she does.  The only
problem will be to find someone that will take her for just one day.

  Thanks again,

    --Cida

I think finding a "home care" provider who is willing to take your child one day a
week will be fairly easy!  (Daycare centers will probably be a little less
flexible in this regard, unless they have plenty of openings they don't expect
to fill in the near future -- and this situation would probably make me REAL
nervous!  Even in today's hard times, most "good, reputable, well-liked" daycare 
centers are still full or have small waiting lists.)

Even if "meals are provided" ... it does not necessarily mean the menu expands
much beyond macaroni/cheese, spagettio's, chicken noodle soup and peanut butter
sandwiches.  Juli eats her fair share of these, HOWEVER, she does not get them
DAILY.  Even though I pack her a decent, well-rounded lunch WITH WHOLE MILK
(another rare item on the menu list!), there's still no guarantee it reached
her belly, but at least "I" know what was placed in front of her at high-noon!
Several of my friends will say "well, I buy stock in Chef-Boy-Ar-Dee and hotdogs
because I know my kids will eat them ...".  Sorry, but I believe in variety and
more-nourishing things like yogurt, turkey, deli cheese, fresh fruit, raisins,
whole milk (not sugar-dye juice boxes).  There's so many things you can buy
packaged for "lunch boxes".  The 5-10 minutes it takes me to pack a lunch in
the morning is well worth knowing what will be offered Juli for lunch today.

I totally agree with Kristen (Cox) ... I want my child to bond to more than
"one" provider.  This was a big plus for Juli when she transitioned from
homecare to daycare.  She didn't HAVE TO play with "just Elizabeth" today ...
she can now play with any one or more of 10 kids (in her morning class) or
anyone at daycare (in the afternoon).  Same with instructors.  She has "her"
three instructors (in the morning) and all instructors (in the afternoon).
Sure, Juli has her favorites (Mz. Sanko or June!), but she'll go to anyone at
the center.  Juli has been less affected by severance when it's been diluted by
numbers!  And it gives Juli a broader exposure to personalities, attitudes,
feelings, etc.  Somedays Juli will want to be part of "The Rat_Pack" and other 
days she'll want to play alone ... and maybe one day she'll be tired of playing
with Sally and opt for Harry  (who knows!) ... but at least there are lots
of kids, tons of variety and infinite activities from which to choose.

Just my two cents!
Dottie

PS:  FWIW:  Jim/I flex-houred Juli's first year.  Juli was in homecare
     from 12-18 months and daycare from 18-24 months  (Juli just turned
     "2" yesterday), so we've had the "pleasures" of all "care" situations!!

I was just thinking about the day-care right outside our office.  It wasn't
open when I had Kati, but when I saw it being built I was sooooooo excited
about it.  When it finally opened and I had a chance to move there, I was
very stressed out.  I couldn't decide whether to give up the great situation
I had on a chance that this one will be as good.  So I decided to wait a while
and see how it turns out.

I started hearing rumors about the 2-year old room.  The lead teacher was
apparently rude to the children and VERY unkind to them.  I heard this from
multiple mothers - who felt so strongly that they were going to remove their
kids before they hit the 2-year room.  I decided to ask a mother whose child
was currently in the 2 room.

Her response was, basically... yeah, she's like that.  But he's going to run
into mean people in his life so he might as well get used to it...

I TOTALLY disagree with her attitude, and feel sorry for her son.  I'm also
thankful that I decided to wait to move my kids there.

>Her response was, basically... yeah, she's like that.  But he's going to run
>into mean people in his life so he might as well get used to it...

I bet I know who said that...

Boba