Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    Wow, your SIL is really devoted to nurse ALL day!
    
    She'll probably get the best advice from the local LaLeche League but
    I'll throw in my .02.
    
    Sounds like the baby is using your SIL as a pacifier.  Advice from my
    pedi was 15 minutes each side every 2 hours.  I assume that means that
    it takes at least 2 hours to make more milk. I offered a pacifier
    in between.
    
    To get rid of the nosy grandma that claimed I didn't have enough milk, I 
    expressed one feeding into a bottle {11oz} and let her feed the baby.
    When he screamed for more in two hours, she decided he needed cereal,
    even if it was against the doctor's orders! We "filtered" her advice
    after that............ :-)
    
    Finally, I have a good friend with a baby boy like your nephew.  He ate
    ALL the time, night and day.  They switched to formula because she was
    sick of nursing all the time {no time between feedings}.  Now at 15 months
    this boy aka "Moose" is 33 lbs and wears size 4T clothes. He STILL
    drinks SIX 12oz bottles of formula in addition to meals every day.  It 
    appears that he is either eating or drinking every waking moment!
    
     
    
    
    

I'm very surprised that the pedi was so concerned about the weight gain.
It is not uncommon for babies to lose weight in the first few weeks, and
be back to their birthweight by a month or so.

If your sister really wants to breast feed I suggest she contact La Leche
League to get some more information from them (1-800-LALECHE), and not let
anyone push her into feeling guilty and abandoning it.  It is possible that
her child has a stronger need to suck than others - has she offered a pacifier?

Good luck to her and her family...

Kristen

    While breastfeeding and pacifiers are not always incompatible, it would
    not be a good idea to introduce one until the "weight gain" issue is
    resolved.  If the baby isn't sucking correctly, a pacifier will make
    things worse.  If the baby is trying to build up the milk supply, a
    pacifier would be counter productive.  I second (or third?) the
    suggestion to call La Leche.  I first called when Katie was three and a
    half weeks old, and I hadn't even been able to go to the bathroom
    without her on me.  
    
    Good luck.
    
    Susan

    I agree with the first two.  One day when Eric was just a few days 
    old he did the same thing.  I was in tears because I spent just about 
    an entire day nursing him.  If I stopped, he cried.  I called the
    pedi's office and spoke with a nurse and she suggested he was using
    me as a pacifier and that I should offer him one.  That solved that
    problem.  Also, it makes sense that she isn't having time to make
    milk since the baby is always nursing.  That could explain why s/he
    hasn't gained as much as the doctor would like...although I'm also
    not sure that a six ounce gain in one month is that bad.  At least
    the baby is gaining.
    
    Donna
    

    Donna,
    
    Milk is constantly being made...you don't need to stop to make more.
    
    Susan

    But they can suck you dry (this I heard from a newborn nurse) and if 
    they don't stop nursing, I would think you would never fill up enough 
    to give them a big, or even normal, feeding.?.
    
    Donna
    
    
    

    One of my sister-in-laws also seemed to brestfeed her two children all
    day.  Both of them I think didn't gain any weight in the first month
    and now they are both 4x4's.  Sounds to me like he's doing fine,
    although I agree with the pacifier suggestion.
    
    If he's healthy, the number on the scale doesn't matter.
    
    W-

    PLEASE.  Before reading this do not assume I'm saying this is the
    problem... it could very well be nothing but...
    
    I am not trying to scare anyone and hopefully the previous noters are
    correct and everything is fine.  My daughter followed the same pattern
    described by the base noter.  The pedi checked her every week.  She had
    strange stool which I was told would happen with a breast fed baby so I
    thought nothing of it.  She also gained very little weight.  The pedi
    told me that babies (even nursed) should gain at the very least 4 oz.
    per week.  Finally at 8 weeks he ran a test and we discovered she had
    Cystic Fibrosis.  The doctor ran the test after seeing fat in her
    stool.   The reason she was eating every hour was because she was not 
    getting nourishment because her body was not digesting.
    I can understand why the pediatrician is concerned.  I'm not suggesting
    that is the problem but I also wouldn't just write it off.
    *  Is the pediatrician monitoring the baby weekly?
    *  Is the baby pale at all? or look "puffy"?
    Also, there is what they refer to as the "kiss test".  Does the babys
    skin taste salty when kissed?
    Again, I'm not trying to say that is problem.  It's just my experience.
    
    Marie

    Thanks all for the suggestions and encouragement.  I think that, yes,
    he is using her for a pacifier.  They have tried to give him one, but
    he doesn't like it.  It seems to me that he just kind of chomps on it,
    not really suck, and it just falls out after a minute or two.  Maybe
    that's the problem with nursing, too.  Maybe he doesn't know how to
    suck so he gets milk extremely slowly.  My sister says she has plenty
    of milk and is never sore.  She often leaks between feedings, which
    supports the idea that the baby is possibly sucking ineffienctly.
    
    The pedi who examined my nephew last week month had never seen him before. 
    They're supposed to take him back this coming week to have his weight
    re-checked.  Yes, 1/4 to 1/2 lb. per week is the recommended "normal"
    weight gain.  That's why they were worried.  
    
    Re: the note about cystic fibrosis:  Don't know about salty skin, but
    he definitely doesn't look pale or puffy.  Rather, he's kind of
    olive-skinned and rather gaunt looking.

    
    re: olive-skinned
    
    Just in case the olive is actually yellow and in particular if the
    "whites" of his eyes are somewhat yellow, there could be a possibility
    of jaundice.   My son had mild-jaundice in the first two weeks of his
    life that was attributed to initial difficults in breastfeeding.  He
    needed more fluid than he was getting.   I don't have any more 
    information or recommendations; just something to consider....
    
    cj/

    
    RE .9                                       
    
    "She often leaks between feedings, which supports the idea that the
    baby is possibly sucking ineffienctly."
    
    Until your milk supply settles down leaking is very common in the first
    six weeks or so whether you have a sipper or a gulper.
    
    ~~~
    
    Some babies tend to snooze too much while they eat and need to be
    woken up to finish feeding, my daughter did this in the hospital a lot
    which had some of the nurses concerned (she was only 5lb 7oz at birth).  
    They suggested un-swaddling her and rubbing her back to wake her up.
    
    Breastfeeding for the first time is a learning experience for both the
    mother and child and not all babies instinctively know how to nurse
    correctly.  If there are no medical problems and your SIL is really
    commited to nursing then all she'll need is you love and support.

      <<< Note 1083.0 by NOVA::WASSERMAN "Deb Wasserman, DTN 264-1863" >>>
                           -< Breastfeeding problem >-

	RE: .0

    Here are some other suggestions, from a mother who nursed two
babies while working full-time.  These ideas come from La Leche
and from Adelle Davis's book "Let's Have Healthy Children",
as well as the Kamen's book on baby food.

    First is that constant nursing will draw down the mother's 
nutrition, and some building up of certain nutrients will be needed.
There may be some vitamins or trace minerals missing.  I would counsel
against cereal before 4 months, the infant does not have the enzymes
to digest it, and it would cause colic.  There are worse things than
nursing too much!

    The best advice is to start making protein milkshakes and 
sipping them before or during nursing.  I have several recipes
from books, including stress formula, banana/orange, melon, and
other recipes.  But any combination of milk, fruit or juice and 
vitamin powder and/or honey (optional) thrown in the blender works.
The best immediate results are from brewer's yeast mixtures.  They
provide essential B vitamins.  Note that the "old wives tale" of
recommending beer for nursing is fine as long as it still has the
yeast in the bottom.  But none of the commercial, devitalized,
pasteurized American brews have it, so avoid them.  I prefer
smoothies and shakes with brewer's yeast, honey, strawberries,
and milk and orange juice.   Easy to make and they give a big boost
to milk production and energy.

	Drink lots of water, and try to spend as much time walking
with the baby as possible.  Babies need the stimulation of being
carried in a scarf or a pack on momma.  I do not recommend formula
unless there is no other choice, and then prefer the simple, home-made 
or soy-based supplements like SMA with as little iron as possible.  
The mother may be low in Vitamin E, or magnesium, or potassium,
and a good stress vitamin or mineral supplement would be best.
What the mother eats is probably the most important element right
now.  Avoid sugar as much as possible as it contributes to "post-partum
blues".  

	Nothing wrong with a pacifier, if the baby will take it.
Better would be to get someone else (daddy?) to feed the baby,
either from expressed milk in an orthopedic bottle, or if necessary,
formula.  Avoid cow's milk as much as possible to prevent colic.

	Good luck, hope that some of this might help out!

The classic rule of thumb measures urine output.  The baby should have 8-10 
really wet diapers each day.  Since it's hard to tell when a disposable is
wet, take a dry diaper and put 1/4 cup of water in it to give you a feel for
the measurement.

The "charts" are data gathered about 40 years ago, when formula feeding was
common.  It appears that there may be differences in the growth curve for
natural vs. artificial feeding.

Babies are all so different.  To lots of people, it makes perfect sense to
comfort a newborn with sucking at the breast, its strongest survival reflex.
So lots of nursing just to deal with the scariness of getting to know the
world is fine.  Especially if you are careful to make yourself comfortable
when you nurse it is the most restful way to comfort a baby.  It's a rather 
recent Western notion to think a pacifier and infant seat are a good 
alternative.

I would echo the recommendations that your sister rest and have her husband
feed her well (not tons of extra calories, just good ones), including lots 
of water.

And in about two weeks, she can expect the baby to nurse "non-stop" for a
few days as he enters his growth spurt and helps mom adjust her supply to his
new needs.

It is useful to remember that the large majority of pedis are not trained in
lactation at all.  Their advice is just that - semi-educated advice, kind of
like the noting community but subject to the bit of experience they have.  
In comparing information sources, I have found La Leche League trained leaders
to be the best source of *factual* information and, if one needs it, emotional
support for the demands of a new baby and new friends that share an interest
in families growing together.

1.800.LALECHE

=ss

PS - yes, that's similar to my early experience (nursed a lot, slept little,
slow early weight gain.  Alex is now 19 months old, 35.5" and 31 pounds.

    
    
    .13
    
    "natural vs. artificial feeding"    
    
    wow, that stings.

    Please, folks, watch the condemning tone in the "natural vs. artificial" 
    stuff. There are perfectly valid reasons to formula feed a baby, and no
    one should get on their high horse and sound so unkind about it. My
    wife has had some perfectly horrible experiences in nursing, some of
    them assisted by LaLeche (who were always professional and kind). Of
    our four children, only one nursed successfully, and she did without a
    single hitch. The other 3 had problems of varying degrees, ranging from
    mild weight loss with nursing,to a refusal to nurse for hours on end
    (12 at highest count, and this for a 2 week old), to severe
    breastfeeding jaundice not once but twice. In all circmstances we tried
    valiantly to nurse, but the babies all lost gret quantities of weight,
    and until you've watched your infant dropping ounce after ounce after
    ounce as they scream and cry for hours, then days on end, when your
    wife tries to nurse them, *don't* assume everyone can nurse an infant!
    Our children have thrived on formula, haven't been ill, and *most
    importantly* have started to grow normally! when Jacob was born he
    never nursed well, but we stuck with it, realizing that breastfeeding
    is the ideal. But he went from 7lbs. 6 oz. on birth, to 6 lbs 4 oz. 2
    weeks later. In this time he'd had two bouts with breastfeeding
    jaundice. Our doctor is a *strong* advocate fo breastfeeding but he
    eventually told us it might be best to switch to formula for the baby's
    sake. On switching, he immediatley lost that ghastly yellow tone
    (particularly in his eyeballs!), gained weight, became alert and active
    and slept better. We were literally starving him to death. 
    
    I wholeheartedly encourage every women to attempt nursing her infant,
    and to stick with it for as long as possible. As long as the basenoters
    infant is gaining weight at all, I would encourage her to stay with it.
    But there really are times it simply doesn't work out.
    
    --dave-- 

    re.15
    
    You have made some very important points here. It is so true that it
    doesn't always work for everyone. I tried nursing my daughter several
    times in the hospital, she would never get the hang of it and that made
    me very impatient. Finally I asked the nurse to bring me a bottle. And
    she has been on formula ever since. And she is a very happy healthy and
    content little girl. I would have loved to keep on trying but when your
    child is screaming and crying all the time it is very difficult. 
    Also, I feel that it would have taken up so much of my time to continue
    nursing, Example: My sister in law did and she would feed her baby
    every 3 hrs. or so, well, every time we were there for a visit or dinner,
    she would have to leave the room for an hour at a time or sometimes
    even more, to return to a cold dinner or whatever.
    
    This is a touchy subject, with my sister-in-law. Her daughter is now
    2 1/2, and she looks so pale and we sware she is anemic and she is so
    thin, she is an active little girl but she is always sick and it's very
    noticable. Who knows if that has anything to do with being nursed but
    some of us in the family feel it does. BTW she is pregnant again and
    doesn't intend on nursing #2.
    
    No matter what a mother chooses to do,I'm sure it is in her best
    intrest to do so.
    
    
    Sandy
    

re .16:

>    every 3 hrs. or so, well, every time we were there for a visit or dinner,
>    she would have to leave the room for an hour at a time or sometimes
>    even more, to return to a cold dinner or whatever.

Whatever for??

	-Neil

    .17
    
    Sounded crazy when I read it, too.  Unfortunately, that was me at
    times.  Everything was fine if I was with mom, dad, brothers, sisters,
    but go to inlaws and I had to disappear into a bedroom by myself.
    Unfortunately people can be uptight about what should be normal
    activities.
    
    Donna
    

    Neil, she is a modest person I guess. She felt uncomfortable nursing
    infront of others. It may be the natural thing to do, but she also felt
    that was her time with her baby not to be shared with a room full of
    people. Anyway, she found hat nursing demanded way to much of her time.
    
    
    
    Sandy

    My sister bought a microwave shortly after her daughter's birth.
    
    Her reasoning was so that she could rewarm her coffee, tea or whatever
    Including her dinner plate.
    
    Now we're talking a gal who stayed at home, canned vegtables, raised a
    garden, dogs, compost piles.  Have you all got the picture now?  But
    felt she couldn't live without a microwave to rewarm food and
    beverages!
    
    Could she do that instead of "going away for an hour, and returning to
    a cold plate"?  Heck in my house it would be dry, if the cats had left
    it alone that long!  Could she cover it and maybe put it in a warm
    oven for an hour?
    
    Lyn

    the issue is not that her plate was cold, it's that breastfeeding was
    too inconvenient for her.
    
    
    She nursed for 6 months.

    Mother's health is also a factor -- with my first pregnancy I had
    all-day nausea for 7 months straight and only gained weight during 
    the last two months.  I got back to a whopping 5 pounds over my
    pre-pregnancy weight (and I was thin to begin with...)
    
    Thanks to vitamins and other medical monitoring the baby was fine
    though a bit small, but I was anemic, starting to develop toxemia,
    and low on several other vitamins, and the doctor advised me that
    nursing would jeopardize my health seriously.  So Kat was formula
    fed and I feel no guilt whatsoever.  
    
    --bonnie

    
    How is your SIL and the baby doing?
    
    I nursed for 9 months, worked full time, for 3 of the the 9 she was on 
    whole milk and breast.  Things ARE different for everyone.  No one
    should make a judgement on anyone else.  Just offer advice and
    suggestions.  I couldn't nurse in public...Courtenay refused to drink,
    she enjoyed chatting with who ever was in the room with us.  
    
    Good luck to her and I hope to hear good new soon.
    
    Rose Marie

    My sister called last nite to tell me that they went back to the doctor
    and the baby has gained 1/4 lb. this week.  This made them all feel
    _much_ better.  This will also give her more confidence to fight off
    the well-meaning grandmothers :-)  And, BTW, I took another look at the
    baby's skin color, and it's pretty rosy after all, not yellow as I
    originally thought.  So I guess everything is fine!  Thanks all.
    

    A new note, but still what I consider a 'problem' of sorts.
    My almost 4-month-old has been for the past month very fussy
    at the breast.  
    
    (She does 'mom' at home in the morning, after work and right 
    at bedtime.  Formula at daycare, as I don't have a lot of 
    success pumping - another horror story).
    
    Within 5 minutes of feeding, Alex will begin squirming and fussing
    and just goes in cycles of latching on and off for the next
    few minutes.   She generally throws her head back, arches her
    back and just squirms.  I'm eating well, drinking lots of fluid
    but I'm wondering if I'm beginning to dry up and she's fussing
    because she trying to get more, or possibly if it's nipple
    confusion (she doesn't act this way with formula).  Part of the effect
    that bothers me is that she gets all worked up at the feeding when I
    want her to nod off to sleep, then I can't calm her down.
    I really don't want to go to formula 100% - I enjoy the breastfeeding
    but not the fact that she seems to be struggling to get food.
    She doesn't act this way every feeding, but most.  
    One experiment that seems to work (except at nite) is to let her
    feed on breast, then switch to the other when she squirms, but that
    doesn't seem sufficient time to get enough milk to her.
    La-Leche can't offer answers.
    
    Any similar experiences or suggestions?
    
    Thanks - Kathy

>>    One experiment that seems to work (except at nite) is to let her
>>    feed on breast, then switch to the other when she squirms, but that
>>    doesn't seem sufficient time to get enough milk to her.
    
    Seems to me that I read somewhere that a majority of the milk comes out
    in the first 6 minutes. Can anyone confirm that? If that's true, then
    maybe she's getting enough. If it isn't, could you just do each side
    twice? If it helps, I did just what you're doing (formula during the
    day; breastfeeding morning and night (and night and night...)) til my
    some was 7 1/2 months old. 

    Kathy, you seem to be having a similar experience to mine.  AJ was in
    NICU for almost two weeks after birth, and not allowed to nurse, or
    have anything by mouth for almost 5 days, due to the surgery at birth.
    His first experience was with a two ounce bottle, with what they called
    a "natural nipple" on it, shaped like an orthodontic pacifier.  I was
    insistant on nursing him, and had been pumping, with an electric pump
    since the first day, he was getting my milk in the bottles in NICU.  I
    was finally allowed to nurse him directly, in the NICU behind a curtain
    at almost 10 days.  He just never could get used to me, and he did much
    of what you described.  I continued to pump, because we really needed
    to monitor his intake, he was low in birthweight, and finally after him
    fighting me so much I finally gave up on nursing after 3 or 4 months,
    with formula supliments.  My problem as well is that I wasn't putting
    out enough to keep him satisfied, but probably that was because I was
    so uptight, nothing would let down. I found the pump not relaxing, even
    when I put warm facecloths on my breasts prior to nursing attempts or
    pumping.  The pump just seemed so cold and mechanical.
    
    Let me just offer a lot of support and encouragement, not much else.
    
    Lyn

    Re: 25
    
    I would second the suggestion given in .26. Seems like I read somewhere
    that this method would help 'let-down'. I wouldn't think it's nipple
    confusion if your baby is nursing for 5 minutes or more. Are you sure
    the baby is sucking correctly? You should be able to see a 'pulling'
    around your skin while the baby's nursing (my maternity nurse showed
    me this). Another thing came to mind during reading your note...maybe 
    your baby is just used to getting the milk more quickly (as with a
    bottle). Maybe you could try giving an ounce or two of formula before
    you settle the baby down to nurse for the last time of the night. This
    might take the edge off.
    

    
    Another guess, both my children got hard to nurse around 6 months -
    they wanted to look around.  Any noise or activity in the room would
    cause them to come "unlatched" and look around.  Nursing in a quiet 
    dark room helped a little. Although I preferred sitting in front of
    the T.V. with my feet up!
    
    Rochelle
    

    
    I was warned by my pediatrician that once a baby starts on the bottle,
    they may wean themselves from the breast. This happens because the
    bottle is actually easier than the breast and they get "lazy" and don't
    want to work as hard as they have to at the breast. I too wished to
    continue with the breastfeeding in the morning and at night, but when
    my daughter started fussing (just like you described) everytime I
    breastfed her and it continued for a while I finally gave in. I enjoyed
    breastfeeding her, but I wasn't enjoying this. It was making me feel
    frustrated which I'm sure got her more fussy and it was a round robin
    effect. If your child isn't getting enough while breastfeeding I think
    it would start to show up in the fact she would get hungry sooner or
    start to wake up at night. So if nothing is changing in her schedule,
    maybe it's something you'll just have to adjust to. Good Luck in
    whatever you do/decide and let us know what happens. If the baby
    finally relaxes again and nurses contentedly I would like to
    know...maybe next time I'll stick it out a little longer in the hopes
    it would happen with me too.
    
    Patty

    Thanks for all of your answers.  I've tried the quiet and in a 
    dark room approch - no difference.  I'm just going to keep at it
    as long as possible.  I'll try the idea of a little formula first
    and the warm facecloth also (I had forgotten that helps let-downs).
    I rarely feel let downs now, but didn't have them every time even 
    before.   I'll let you know if things change.  She may also be
    teething.  Other than this occurance, this kid is pretty perfect.
    Sleeps thru the nite, easily amused, smiles a lot and just rolled
    over the other day at exactly 3 1/2 months.  I'm thanking my lucky
    stars day by day
    
    Thanks again
    Kath

    Hang in there. This holiday coming up may be just the thing you and
    your daughter need. She may be going through a growth spurt and
    a longer, extended time with nursing may help.

    
    	I have a question for you more experienced breast feeders.
    
    	Is it possible to equal out the breasts and if so how?
    
    	I've noticed that one of my breasts has gotten considerably larger
    than the other (It's the easier side) and when I pump I get about 4
    ounces out of the larger side and only about 1 ounce out of the smaller
    side. How does one go about equaling the difference? I would imagine
    more nursing on the smaller side would do it, but then the baby gets
    fussy because he is not getting enough. Is this something I just have
    to get used to? I worry that the smaller side will just dry up and I'll
    have to nurse the baby with the one remaining (enormous) breast.
    
    	Any thoughts?
    
    				Wendy

    Wendy .... mine never evened out, and even after 3 years of not breast
    feeding my "easier" breast is larger than the other.... I never USED to
    be lopsided! (-;
    
    Welcoming any helpful hints!

    I'm Frank's wife and very involved in Le Leche. We where discussing this
    very thing at our last months meeting. A study was done of working
    mother's who pumped and the majority had one breast that gave more milk
    then the other. One breast is often more preferred by the baby then the
    other. That is often due to the baby having a favorite side it likes to
    lay on. (I know how that is I always have to lay on my left side to go
    to sleep.) Anyway you can encourage the baby to nurse it's least
    favorite breast by shifting it to the other breast without turning it.
    In other words if you are nursing on the left side just slide the baby
    across your body so that it's now nursing on the right side without
    changing positions. I hope this makes sense. Good Luck. Diane.
      

    Wendy,
    
    I'm afraid it's pretty common.  I had it with both kids.  My left side
    just didn't produce like my right side from day 1, and like you said,
    they become fussy and prefer the other side, which just adds to the
    problem.
    
    My left side dried up at 12 months with Kati, and at 8 months with
    Kimmi Jo.  The right side is still going strong and yes, I'm VERY
    lopsided - especially just before nursing!
    
    My ob/gyn said it's not unusual........
    
    Kristen

    
    Wendy,
    
    Same situation with me.  I used to always start each feeding on the
    "unfavorite" side to try and even things out - after 3 or 4 months
    it wasn't as annoying, I'm not sure why.
    
    Rochelle

Must be something about the right side.  The same thing happened to me.  

If I started with the right, I could usually get a good 8 oz, but then got only
a couple from the left.  If I started with the left, I would still only get
a couple of ounces but then would only get a couple from the right as well.

My daughter decided a bottle was much easier around 4 months so I did not have
to deal with this for long.

    re: .25 - fussy baby when breastfeeding
    Just thought I'd follow up for those who replied to my concerns.
    
    Alex seems to have settled down just a little more.  She still
    is fussy sometimes, but she doesn't get herself as worked up as
    she did a couple of weeks ago.  On occasion now, she will nurse herself
    (and me!) to sleep.  Starting this week though she has woken up
    shortly after going to bed and I suspect she is really hungry, even
    after I've nursed her, so I have to give her more formula til she
    seems satisfied.  She then will sleep all nite.
    Daycare has suggested giving her some solid food, 
    which the pedi was going to discuss with me next week anyhow.
    
    Kind of glad I stuck with nursing.  Hopefully my better luck will
    continue.
    
    Thanks for the support!
    Kath  

    
    Kath,
    	Glad things seem to be getting better. I think once Alex starts
    taking in some cereal or whatever at supper time, then a nursing
    before bed will probably hold her for through the night. Congrats
    on sticking it out. Maybe things will just keep getting better.
    
    Patty

    I'll have to ask my better half - the one with the nursing tools - and
    confirm this but I seem to remember my wife putting up with fussing and
    forcing the issue.  If its 'that' sides turn and not much milk is there
    oh well.  She tried very hard to get our infants to suckle anyway and
    that (although delayed some) brought in the milk to meet the demand.
    
    David

    In following up on .41 - the wife said that she fed on the troublesome
    side first (apparently all our kids liked one side better than the
    other).  This way the baby is more hungry because they havent had
    anything to eat yet.  This intense attack eventually - in a couple of 
    weeks - draws the milk in (or so she sez). This is according to the wife 
    because I, after all, just stumbled on this note and am now leaving
    it...never to return :-)
    
    cheers!
    
    David

    
    	Spencer has been ill for the last one and one half weeks (the first
    cold is very trying) and has, for the entire time, refused a bottle and
    would only nurse. Up until that point he would take a bottle from his
    father and the babysitter.
    
    	Luckily, because of holiday schedules and living close to work, I
    was able to accomodate him and he was nursed (often) throughout the
    duration of his cold. (as well as rocked and held non-stop during that
    period).
    
    	We tried many times to supplement his fluids with water, formula,
    or some diluted juice, but he refused all of that.
    
    	The problem is that now, even though he is feeling better (he still
    has quite a bit of congestion though) he is *still* refusing a bottle.
    Boy does he get mad when I (or anyone) tries to slip a bottle in. I
    think that he has decided that he likes nursing better and wants to
    stick with that, problem is that I have to go back to work and I can't
    keep running home for him, he's got to start taking a bottle (usually
    with my milk) during the days again.
    
    	How do you *re*introduce a bottle to a baby who just says no?
    
    
			Wendy
    
    

    He probably won't reconsider the bottle until the congestion
    clears up.
    
    --bonnie

    I don't know how old Spencer is, but how 'bout introducing a cup?
    

    
    	Can a cup be introduced at three months? (Spencer's age) If so,
    I'll gladly give it a try.
    
    	While we are on the topic, how do you know when it is time to
    introduce a cup? Is it merely by age or do they show some sort of
    developmental skill first?
    
    			Wendy

    You can certainly try a cup at 3 months, though his ability to take it
    EASILY won't be as high as at 6 months or later. I asked my dr. about
    this last month at Christopher's 4 mo checkup, since Chris was/is
    sometimes balky taking a bottle from his Dad. My doctor, a very strong
    advocate of breastfeeding, suggested trying a cup if Chris continued to
    resist..... we haven't tried it as of yet, but it might be worth a shot
    for you.
    
    best of luck,
    

    We pushed Nathan to a cup in that he refused all bottles, completely,
    until he was down to three feedings a day and one or two via spoon--the
    cup wass just an experiment (actually it was an open glass, and Nathan
    was 4 months old).  He did fine, just had a bad connotation regarding
    the bottles.  He was not any good with cups for a few months, but at
    least it  was another way to get nourishment into him!  
    
    Adrienne
    

    We started cups at ~3 mos also.  I think it helped get them completely
    weaned a lot younger.  Of course, prepare yourself for those "OHMIGAWD!
    What kind of parent are YOU?" stares .... 
    
    Good Luck!
    
    If he's really insistent, is it possible for the babysitter to bring
    him to YOU at lunch and perhaps there's a handicapped bathroom or
    someplace you could nurse?

We were forced to introduce a cup to our daughter when she was about 3-1/2 
months old.  I was nursing her and her Dad gave her a bottle a few times
a week.  When I went back to work and she started going to daycare, she 
refused the bottle.  We tried everything - new bottles, formula, breast milk - 
you name it.  Anyway, we finally tried a cup and it worked.  We had to hold it 
for her for the first couple of months but then she would do it herself.

The only thing that I was worried about was she definitely didn't take as much
from the cup as from a bottle or breast feeding and she started taking an extra
feeding in the middle of the night.  

Good Luck!

    
    The following is a letter to the editor in the winter 1992 issue of
    Mothering. I was so incensed that I just had to enter it.
    
    ____________________________________________________________________
    
    Dear Mothering,
    
    	The words "The Politics of Breastfeeding" on the cover of your
    Summer 1991 issue grabbed my full attention. Earlier in the year, I was
    arrested for sexually abusing my 2 1/2 year old daughter. The charge:
    "mouth to breast contact".
    
    	My nightmare began when I called a volunteer center to find the
    telephone number for the local La Leche League chapter. During our
    discussion the volunteer, who was totally ingnorant about the normalacy
    of nursing past infancy, decided that breastfeeding a 2 year old
    constituted incest. That day my daughter was taken from me and placed
    in a foster home. She is currently in the custody of her grandparents
    and I have visiting rights only every two weeks. La Leche League has
    testified on my behalf, spoken with journalists, and generally sounded
    the alarm. Still I am battling biased social workers and an ignorant
    and slow-moving court system. I ask for your prayers and love.
    
    					La Fayette, New York
    
    _________________________________________________________________

    re -1
    
    
    
    
    			OUTRAGEOUS!!!
    
    

    If I lived in NY I would write to my state representative about this one.
    Come to think of it, my Mom lives in NY - I think I'll ask her to write 
    write to her state rep.

    	More on the legal rights of breastfeeding couples


    Dear Mothering, (magazine)

    	
    	I have been amazed and heartened by the support, prayers and love
    from so many readers in response tot he charge made against me of
    "sexually abusing" my 2-year old daughter by nursing her (Winter 92). I
    was cleared of the charge; my daughter,however, remained in foster care
    until January 6 1992 - 359 days after she was taken by the Department
    of Social Services. I am finally rejoicing, and my little girl tells
    everyone, "I'm home forever!"

    	I have heard that many nursing moms were frightened by my letter,
    wondering if this could happen to them too. I certainly did not want to
    scare other mothers. Nursing is not illegal, so it is highly unlikely
    that anyone is going to come into a home and yank a child away for
    nursing. Still, many social services have a narrow view of what is
    "proper". Any parenting practice that is different or unusual is open
    to question. In many states, an anonymous complaint can inspire
    protective agencies to take a child from a home. An "unusual" practice
    such as a family bed, homeschooling, or a nursing toddler may then add
    fuel to a spark that may or may not ignite.

    	In my case, the fuel - adding to the "unusual" practice of nursing
    an almost three year old - was the nature of my question intended for
    La Leche League (LLL). I wanted to know if it was normal for women to
    experience feelings of arousal while nursing. Instead of contacting
    LLL, the Volunteer Center asked the Rape Crisis Center to return my
    call. Three sparks ignited: The Rape Crisis Center volunteer was
    unaware of the normalcy of nursing past infancy; she assumed the
    feelings I had experienced that evening were indicators of abuse, and
    she was required to report my question to her supervisor.

    	We need not live in fear; we do, however, need to inform ourselves
    of our rights as parents, and of ways to protect ourselves against
    violations of these rights. In family court, a parent is guilty until
    proven innocent "in the best interest of the child." A good resource
    for parents wanting to forearm themselves from false charges is Mary
    Pride's book, The Child Abuse Industry.

    	Thank you all for your help. Our case has received national
    coverage, thanks to the response of readers. Perhaps we can help to
    make a small difference for other families.

    				Denise Perrigo
    				LaFayette, New York


    Editor's Note (from the magazine): It is not unusual for a woman to
    feel sexually aroused while breastfeeding a child of any age, although
    many women feel less sexual in the early months of nursing. Fear of
    being misunderstood and the taboo nature of the subject prevent women
    from discussing the matter openly, or from asking questions of their
    healthcare provider. Lactation consultants are happy to address this
    issue with mothers. Also see the chapter "The Sensual Nature of
    Breastfeeding" in Mothering Your Nursing Toddler by Norma Jane
    Bumgarner, and the article "Breastfeeding and Sexuality" by Alice
    Bricklin, in Mothering, no.43 (Spring 87)

      		----------------

		

    Wendy,
    
    Thanks for entering the update.  The original posting really bothered
    me and I'm glad the family is reunited.  
    
    What an ugly story.
    
    judy