Conference moira::parenting_v3

    My sister's daughter was almost exactly the same height and weight at
    the age of 2. She's always been 'off the charts' as her Mom (5'-9") and
    Dad (6'-3") are quite tall. So, I wouldn't worry about that. In
    addition, it seems like kids grow in 'leaps', then stabilize, and
    repeat the pattern.
    
    As far as her being out-of-control, I can't help much with that one (my
    daughter is only 7.5 months old). But, this could be due to a number of
    factors....a new sibling on the way, normal 2-year old independance,
    annoyance at waiting around for 1 hour (this makes me mad,too!), or
    maybe some of the other factors that you mentioned. Maybe others out 
    there with 2 year olds can help. I can say that I found the doctor's 
    comment (on you trying to getting her under control before the new baby 
    comes) to be very annoying. What can you realistically accomplish
    in 1 month (you did say that you're 8 months pregnant right?) ?  

    I can relate completely to the "out of control" behaviour. My daughter,
    Avanti who turned 2 in June is very shy and is uncomfortable around
    people she does not know well. She also cries "bloody murder" at all
    Dr's visits. The Dr is nice and tolerant and does her checkup while I
    am holding Avanti on mylap. She will wiggle and cry when being measured
    and weighed. 
    
    Until 3 months ago , she would cry when we had visitors (like at a
    party) or went to a party. She would take time to get used to the new
    faces. Our pedi said that it was just her personality and she would
    outgrow it (or maybe not) as she gets older. Now she does not cry like
    that anymore. She is shy but gets over the initial shyness of strangers
    quite quickly. 
    
    She also took a looooooong time to get used to daycare. She still
    clings a little when I drop her off - but she is fine in about 5
    minutes and after I have left. She then enjoys the rest of her day and
    recently asks to go to "school" on weekends. She even says "School, i
    like it".
    
    She was 28+ pounds and 36.5 inches at her 2 year checkup. She was off
    the charts for height but was around 55%ile for weight. So I am not
    sure why 34 pounds was so alarming. Avanti tends to grow in spurts so
    abrupt changes are normal for her.
    
    hang in there as far as being shy is concerned. She may outgrow it or
    learn to handle it as she gets older.
    
    Shaila

    1 hour for a two year old to wait in a Dr.'s office in a loooooong
    time.  Also, was it close to nap time or was she tired?  That makes a
    big difference with a 2 year old.
    
    Marie

    As the previous reply said, an hour wait is a very long time with a
    young child; in fact, I'm very unhappy if I have to wait an hour for
    seeing the doctor myself.
    
    I'd be more irritated with the doctor's office than with my child.
    
    I've been known to change service providers - doctor, dentist,
    hairdresser, etc. for too-frequent long waits, when I was on time.
    
    Laura

    Yes, 1 hour is much too long to wait I get irritated myself, however, I
    think she would have still had her screaming fit even if we had waited
    5 minutes.  I am 8 months pregnant now so one month to get her under
    control does seem impossible.  It's not that she is bad she just has a 
    mind of her own and is frightened by new people.  I feel a little
    better now, I think that too much happened in such a short time that my
    nerves were shot.  I may visit the psychologist and perhaps learn a few
    helpful hints myself.  If I learn anything that will help others with 
    the same problems I will be sure to post them here.  

The psychologist may not be a bad idea just to get a little support.
You should reevaluate your doctor right now, in my opinion.  Is this a normal
waiting time?  Was he considerate of your child?  Did he tell her what he
was going to do before he did it?  Did he try to have her go along with things,
or did he just order her/you to obey?  I think he owes you an apology for
making you wait so long.  Did he give you one?

<    mind of her own and is frightened by new people.  

Sounds like a lot of 2 year olds.  I think that giving her a lot of security
right now may work out really well for *you* in the long run.  Sounds like
you are already trying to do that.  

Please let us know what happens.

      Carol

    The normal waiting time has been just about 1 hour, I called in advance
    to see if the Dr was on schedule and the receptionist said as of now
    she is but who knows within the hour.  I really do like the Dr but the
    waiting time is becoming unacceptable.  Kyla was so hysterical the Dr
    could not do anything besides weight and height check, luckily she did
    not need shots this time, hopefully next visit will be a little more
    pleasant...perhaps I shall have dad bring her :-)
    

One help that our doctor gave us, was to tell us that we could also get
shots done at the County Health Dept.  This has two advantages: 1) it is
*much* cheaper and 2) it doesn't associate a visit to the doctor with getting
a shot.

      Carol

    My daughter hates the doctor's office also.  We have a very hard time
    with her during the visit - she screams bloody murder.  You'd think she
    was being tortured.  Luckily her doctor takes it all in stride and we
    end up with a very quick check-up.  At one point when we had been there
    somewhat frequently - colds, ear infections, etc. - she would start
    crying the minute she saw the doctor walk into the waiting room.  I
    don't think that this is an unusual problem.  The doctor did mention
    that he had other patients that did the exact same thing.  And I know
    that it's not due to a long wait because we are usual in to see him
    within 5 minutes of getting there.  I guess I just wanted to let you
    know that you are not alone and as everyone says this in time will also
    pass.  I'm just glad that we are now at appointments every 6 months
    instead of every 3!
    
    By the way - I also had my husband take her by himself (made him take
    time off from work even though I was off that day) to see if it would
    help and unfortunately it didn't.  Doesn't mean that it won't help for
    you though   It did make me feel a little better to know it wasn't only
    me.
    
    Ginny

    Janet,

	My impression from your note is that you have a perfectly normal
	2-year-old, and also some perfectly normal late-pregnancy-with-toddler
	symptoms.  My son David was 2 1/2 when his brother was born, and the
	last couple of months were definitely difficult at times.  I think
	it was mainly due to *me* being tired and "hormone-y", and he was
	reacting to that.   What helped me was to take a day to really relax
	and get recharged a bit.  No work, no shopping, just nice around-the-
	house activities with my son.  With David this meant things like lots
	of reading, blowing bubbles in the back yard, sitting out in the
	front yard while he rode his tractor on the driveway, lots of talking
	and lots of hugs.  For a stressed-out parent and a child who's
	feeling a bit insecure and overwhelmed, this can help everybody feel
	better.

		cheryl

    
    Janet,
    
    Sorry about your doctor's visit; sounds like an awful experience.
    
    As far as Kyla's behaviour is concerned, it sounds within the spectrum
    of normal for 2 year olds particularly given the anticipated arrival
    of a new sibling.   For what its worth, my son also was colicky
    (not for a year, thank God) and he also really knows how to scream
    and put up a fuss.   I think it's all those months of practice as
    an infant :-) combined with perhaps a tendency on our part to do
    whatever we could to keep him quiet (i.e. spoiled him!).   We are 
    currently in a struggle with him to attempt to regain control for 
    this very reason, I think.
    
    The weight gain, however, does seem quite high for this age group.
    I think the doctors tend to react to changes in the child's growth
    curve as opposed to the actual weight.    Perhaps, the way you ended 
    up weighing her caused an error and she doesn't really weigh that 
    much?   Nonetheless, it might be a good idea to examine her diet to
    see if there are any ways to improve it.   I think that most pedis
    allow low-fat or 2% milk after 2 years.
    
    Carol   

Juli was lactose-intolerant AND had chronic, continuous ear infections ...
so we were lucky if we got through ONE ENTIRE WEEK without a Pedi appointment
from birth to 18 months of age.  I do believe that Juli began to associate
pain (ear infections and shots) with the Pedi, as she DISPISED him!  She
went absolutely bonkers the second she saw him.  I felt so bad about this,
but the Pedi handled it very well.

I spoke to my Mom about it, but she didn't seem to think it was all that much
of a problem (since her three kids used to throw fits in the doctor's office,
too) ... UNTIL, she and my Dad had the pleasure of taking Juli for a checkup
visit (mind you, NO SHOTS!) and then Juli "showed" my folks the true meaning
of a full-blown hysterical, physically uncontrollable FIT!  (my Dad left
the examining room and my Mom was left to "control" Juli ... which mind you
is NOT easy!).  My Mom said she would do anything for us at anytime 
EXCEPT take Juli to the Pedi's.

(And our Pedi is the gentlest, sweetest, most soft spoken fellow on the face
of this earth!  My Mom even said "of all Pedi's in this entire world, JULI's
Pedi does NOT deserve THIS!)

We, too, wait "on average" 1-2 hours a visit.  Juli relates very well to other
children, so she pretty much plays with "the Pedi's" toys and I bring a good
book, all my junk mail and some tossed-aside mags.  I like our Pedi so much
that it's worth the wait.  So neither Juli nor I get upset about the waiting
time.

Last February, while on a trip out West, Juli fell and split her eyebrow open
... got some stitches.  What we discovered was that she is "better" with
other Pedi's (probably because she doesn't realize they are Pedi's and
therefore doesn't "lose it"?).  Also, Jim's in-law's GP doctor allowed
me to hold Juli in my lap while he checked her ears.  She protested a little,
he gave her something to play with while he checked her ears ... and NO
fussing WHATSOEVER (and she did have another ear infection, too, so she WAS
in pain).

Juli will be "2" in a few weeks ... she weighs 26 pounds, size: 24M or 2T
and also "looks" average to me.  My nephew is a month younger than Juli and
I don't know how much he weighs (I'd guess 35#'ish), takes a 4T and is very
big looking  (heavy legs/arms, pertruding stomach, etc.).  I do believe that
David's weight has stymied his physical development (didn't walk until
15-16 months and at "almost 2" he's still very unstable ... doesn't jump,
run, roll around, chase, climb, etc. like Juli does).  I'm also amazed by
the portions he eats and the constant craving for food.  I believe it's OK 
for the kids to be at "either end" of the size chart PROVIDING it doesn't
affect their development ... and a pattern we set at a young age (excessive
eatting or snacking) tends to only escalate in later years.  I also try to
offer Juli 80% healthy foods and snacks KNOWING she'll still get her fair
share of junk food and juiceboxes on a daily basis (daycare, Nana's house,
neighbor's, the icecream stop, etc.).

So bottom line is:  We, too, experience long delays at the doctor's office,
it's guaranteed that Juli will throw a total fit when the Pedi appears,
I believe she'd be a "hair bit better" if I held her (vs. restraining her on
the table), Juli's always waivered between 27%-70% of the weight chart, but
on average around 40-50% and I do try to monitor what she eats, how much
and when "when I can" (but neither do I stop her if she gets junk food
treats from others ... and we, too, do have junk food in our house, we
just try to keep it at a minimum AND first offer Juli fruit, yogurt, raisins,
CHEESE!, crackers, etc. ... before promoting to the icecream and cookies).

So I think you're experiencing some typical stuff and you have a very
normal 2-year old!!!  If it were me (and it's not!), I would probably follow
through on the weight issue ... just to get a second viewpoint and maybe
some suggestions (food for thought!).

My 2 cents (plus).
Dottie 

    I wouldn't worry about the weight at all - I have a 22 month old who
    weighs 32 pounds and is 35 3/4".  My pedi just said that he's always
    been on the high side of the charts and he'll probably stay that way.

    RE: a psychologist...
    
    Just after my second child was born I took a bunch of classes offered 
    by 2 psychologists.  The classes were entitled something along the lines 
    of "behavior management" and were offered thru the psychological services 
    of Children's Hospital in Boston.  (The classes, BTW, were labeled 
    "group therapy" and billed to John Hancock as such.)
    
    My first child had no out of the ordinary behavior problems but I
    liked the course description and wanted to be a little "pro-active" in
    my child rearing.  Anyway...the classes were *very* useful at a time
    when my first was in her terrible twos and adjusting to her new
    sibling.  I wish they gave refresher classes.  
    
    So...a psychologist isn't such a bad idea.  I've found they can supply
    really useful (as opposed to theoretical) techniques for "managing" a
    child's behavior.  And if you are part of a group you'll not only
    realize that you're not alone with your child having fits, but that
    other parents are in far worse shape.  
    
    PS - I wouldn't view a phychologist a "must-do" thing; that'll only stress 
    you out.  

    I guess a doctor that makes you wait long perids for a scheduled
    apointment pushes one of my *hot buttons*!  But from where I'm coming
    from, AJ has had so many appointments, clinic visits, doctors and such,
    I consider myself and old pro with waiting techniques.  I usually call
    ahead to those who are cronically late with patients.  Yesterday he had
    a 2:45 apointment, I called at 2, she told me so far so good.  I simply
    told the receptionist I had and erand to do an might be 10 minutes
    late.  We were 15 minutes late, the hospital grounds are under major
    construction and parking is difficult at best, and they hadn't bothered
    to warn the patients.  I still waited an additional 20 minutes in the
    waiting room, and another 10 in the exam room, grrr!!  The last visit
    was 35 minutes in the waitingroom and 15 in the exam room.  I was the
    one about to loose it!
    
    We have started to scout out places to kill time, if we know it's going
    to be a real long wait.  I will tell the receptionist that if the
    doctor is running XX number ofminutes late, say 30 or more, that I'm
    taking him outside, or even to a local place like McD's friendly's or a
    playground, and I'll be back in say 30 minutes.  In our case the
    hospital has a caf that serves frozen yogurt, just enough time for a
    small cone!  I may sound harsh or even rude, but it's our mental health
    we're talking here!
    
    

    I, too, would be more concerned by the doctor's attitude than by your
    child's behavior.  I have three children, and they *all* have spazzed at
    the doctor's at least once.  And a long wait just compounds matters. 
    
    As far as hating the doctor...  My sister's daughter was *terrified* of 
    doctors, so her pedi suggested buying one of those little doctor bags
    (Fisher Price?).  That way Jessie played doctor, so when she went to
    the pedi again (with the bag in tow), she knew what to expect, and
    could go through the motions at the same time.  Worked like a charm,
    I'm told.                                                            

    My son loves the doctor's office.  His favorate part of his visits is
    when they have to take blood.  He loves to watch.  The part he does not
    like is when they put the bandaid on. He is 3 years old.
    

    I have two boys one aged 4 and 3/4 and the other is 14months.  They
    both love going to the doctor.  I think it all has to do with the
    attitude of the doctors towards the childern.  From birth with the
    oldest one...I have never had any kind of adverse reaction.  
    
    My oldest is getting ready for kindergarten and needs to have a booster
    shot and a blood sample taken.  I told him straight out that the shot
    will feel like a prick and would hurt for a minute and that it is ok to
    cry if it hurts.  Well, this past Saturday, we went to visit grandma
    and he told her that he had to have a shot.  She kind of over reacted
    and he said, "Calm down Grandma...it's only a shot."  Well, I almost
    fell off of the sofa.
    
    You as the parents should set the scene at the doctor's office.  I had
    a friend who's pedi would lay the child flat down on the table to get a
    shot in the leg.  Then he would also have the nurse hold the child down
    from the waist up.  I don't know about you all...but I would be
    uncomfortable with that.  My doctor lets me hold the child, with the
    arms around my neck and legs around the waist.  When it hurts they
    squeese.  I think this method really works.  Plus too...my one Pedi is
    almost like my childrens grandfather...he a older...but the kids love
    him the best.  This man has been a pedi since most of the younger
    adults in my town have been children.
    
    Hope this helps some.  
    
    
    Lillian

    re .last
    
    Sounds like a doctor in the making....8*)
    
    Kristen

Being the daughter and graddaughter of several doctors, and having run 
a medical office for a few years, here's what I know about how to avoid 
waiting....

0. Mondays are hell.  Always very busy, no matter what specialty.
1. Always call to see how they are running.
2. If you get stuck in an exam room and you think you've been forgotten, open
   the door.
3. The most "on time" parts of the day are the morning and right after lunch.
   (Sometimes though there really is no on time part of the day.)
4. Always ask when you get there how late or on-time the doc is running or how
   many patients are in front of you.  If it is going to be an X minute wait,
   (You set the time limit.) decide wether you will go out and come back, see
   one of the other doctors if that is a possibility, or if
   you'd really rather reschedule.  (We would always offer these options to our 
   patients whenever we were ran late.  read daily when you have 6 docs)
5. Doctors run late because they are seeing someone who needs extra attention,
   had to be scheduled immmediately because of an emergency, or operations took
   longer that normal for whatever reason.  I know a lot of doctors and I don't
   know one of them that chooses to be late.  What if you were the person they 
   were seeing that made them late for the remainder of the day?  

and (this used to be my hot button)

6. A doctor that is running late makes it hard on the office staff especially.
   Who are you glaring at when you are 25 minutes past your scheduled 
   appointment time?  And who do you say "Oh that's alright." to when they 
   breeze into the exam room.  If you don't appreciate being kept waiting tell 
   the **doctor** not the secretary or nurse.
   

    Thanks for the hints!
    
    The problem we have is that our pedi's office usually calls
    us to the exam room almost immediately.  Once in the exam room,
    we tend to wait forever!  (about 30 minutes)
    
    Steven (21 mos) loves playing in the waiting room, do you know
    if doctors will let you go into the exam room in the "interim"
    (the time between when the nurse has weighed and measured and
     you're waiting for the doctor to come in)
    
    That sure would make OUR wait much easier!
    
    Linda

I can't hurt to ask!!  Just explain that Steven doesn't do well being cooped up
in the exam room and could he play in the waiting room after he is measured 
until just before he will be seen.  Tell her that he will be more relaxed when 
the doctor sees him. If for some strange reason you can't leave the exam room, 
then maybe you could drag some of the waiting room toys into the the room with 
you.

Or speak with the nurse and ask her to not call you into the room until you will
be seen.  

Pedi offices are some of the most relaxed offices there are.  The last thing 
they want to do is to have umpteen unhappy campers.  Do what you need to do to
keep your child happy and discuss this with your pedi's staff.

I had many elderly people who felt too confined ask me to leave the door open
or to not put them into the exam room until they would be seen.  We never had
a problem with it.  I hope we were not an exception.

    After the nurse is done with her stuff, I just tell them that we'd
    rather wait in the waiting room, and they let us.  Not a problem at
    Matthew Thornton/Hitchcock Clinic, Nashua.
    
    

                   <<< Note 1072.0 by KAHALA::PALUBINSKAS >>>
                         -< Dr visit - out of control >-

	RE: .0

    Some other thoughts - I have found with both my children
(9 and 2 years) - they have prodigious memories, and do associate
sensations, particularly the pain and awkwardness of doctor's
treatments, with the location, sights, and smell of the clinic.    
That may explain the difference in the one familiar experience
with your daughter's doctor from the other, novel experience.

	I have had to be very careful with both children that
I feed them well before going out, and bring yogurt or crackers
to tide them over.  After an hour, their blood sugar drops,
and their anxiety over the next meal starts.  I now can distinguish
that sound and look that kids have when their blood sugar is low,
as well as that pinkish, hysterical look they get if they eat
something sweet. 

	Beyond that, I suspect what you and others have said is
true, that your child is "2" and suddenly at a new developmental
stage.  Plus you are probably more tired and anxious than you admit,
and you have a lot of strains.  Feed yourself well, get a help-mate
for trips to the doctor, try to keep your perspective.

	Our 2 year old is a real angel, but he has suddenly acquired
the power of "no", and needs a lot of autonomy.  When I let him have
some candy he wanted, he became very tantrum-y.  This was so out of
character I made sure that he had no sweets and some extra vitamins.  
After two days, that unpleasant episode faded away and his sunny 
personality and eagerness came back.  

	You may also need to get some special books on doctors,
or just some special rituals around clinic visits to re-orient
her impressions.  You may want to draw out some of those memories
if you can, since there is clearly some association not directly
attached to the present situation.  Good luck!