Conference moira::parenting_v3

You might also want to look at topic 778, "Lying Child", in PARENTING_V2.

    I think in part it may be the age ... my 6 year old went through that
    about then, and has since grown out of it.
    
    MAKE SURE that he understands WHAT a lie is before telling him not to
    lie!  I remember as a kid my mother always used to tell me I was
    arrogant and annoying and to stop it .... IF I'd had a CLUE what she
    meant, I might've tried!
    
    Good Luck!

Sometimes he is lying but I think Mark is more "trying to change reality."  It's
like this.  sometimes he does things or is in a situation that he doesn't like.
He has, for example, through negligence, broken the TV remote control.  He
didn't mean to break it, he knows he is going to be punished so in his mind
he first convinces himself that it was an accident and then it really wasn't him
and then he can deny it to us also.  He changes the circumstances to make his
situation more comfortable.

I think a child in a stressful situation will tend to do this, at least mine
does.  I try to work on the need for what ever problem is causing the lying
to be solved first.  That is "Let's get back to reality FIRST", then we work
on a solution to the problem.  Often it is not even a situation which means
punishment.  But if it is something where he has to accept the consequences
of his actions, we usually work together then to decide what the punishment
should be.  Even if it is difficult, I always try to remain calm and not be
angry when we unravel these things.

Oh, and one more point.  I never accuse him of anything unless I am absolutely
sure that Mark did it.  And I try not to say "You're lying".  And I praise
him A LOT if he tells me a difficult truth, even after he lied in the first 
place.

If, as you say, your son is going through a stressful situation with a move, a
new relationship in his Mom's life, problems with Dad, he could very well
try to mentally "rearrange" things to lesson the stress.  Maybe you could
try some "imaginary" games with him, things where it is OK to make believe
and say things which are not true.  Then contrast this with where it is
important for the truth to be told.  One I like to do with my kids was to
start a story where they are the hero and then let them continue it, passing
it back and forth.  Or see who can tell the most outrageous lie with a straight 
face.

I wish you luck and lots of love to help your little boy through a difficult 
time.

Cheryl

    At this age children lie because they never ever want to disappoint
    their parents by being BAD.  This will go on until around 7 years. 
    They also have active imaginations and really don't know how to draw
    the line between truth and fiction.  
    
    When my son tells me a "tall story" rather than classify it as a lie I
    ask, "are you telling me a story?" he chuckles and says "no" then I say
    "Are you sure?" and then the giggles with the admittance to a story.
    
    Lying -- "Did you do this?" "No!"  Then I ask one more time with the
    warning, Don't lie cause if you do, you will be in much bigger trouble
    than if you tell me the truth.  That warning goes all the time until
    they learn to tell the truth right off.  When they do tell the truth I
    thank them for telling me the truth and most of the time they don't get
    much of a punishment because they have told the truth or, being scared
    they were going to get in BIG trouble was punishment enough.  (How BAD
    can a 4 - 7 year old be?)  If it does warrant further action, sitting
    in the chair, or being grounded for a day usually is suffice.  I did
    put pepper on my daughter's tongue once when she was 6 as I had
    threatened I would do if she ever lied again.  She is 13 1/2 and I
    really trust she hasn't lied, may not have told the whole story right
    off, until I drag it out, but leaving some parts out does not
    constitute lying in my book.  Denying you did or said something does.
    AND I can always tell when I'm not getting the whole story.  
    
    Don't worry but be firm and repeat it's okay if you do something wrong
    sometimes but don't lie, it's better to tell the truth and get in a
    little trouble then tell a lie and get in big trouble.
    
    Good luck.
    

    
    I don't consider "tall stories" lying. It's more liking
    make-believe.
    
    To me, lying means they are trying to hide something.
    I think most kids this age lies because of 2 main reasons -
    they know they've done something wrong and are afraid that the
    parents get upset or they want others to like them more.
    
    I think the best thing is to tell them why lying is not good.
    (don't use the word wrong - since it has no substance to it,
    it is too abstract). Tell the kid that nobody will believe him
    if he keeps on lying and that nobody will be friends with him.
    Maybe read him the story "Cry Wolf".
    
    Ask him why he lies.  Does he feel insecure that he has to feel
    "better" about himself thru lying? Is he afraid of punishment?
    Try not to focus on the act of lying. Try to understand why he has 
    to lie and fix the problem.
    
    
    Eva 

    Brian has a set of books -- things like "Let's Talk About Cheating",
    "Let's Talk About Tattling", "Let's Talk About Lying".  I found them
    annoying and very preachy, but Brian loved them and wanted them to be
    read over and over again.  The "Lying" one might help with your son. 
    If you'd like, I'll find out who the publisher is and where my sister
    got the books and I'll post the information here.
    
                                              Tracy

    
    
    Funny you should mention "Peter and the Wolf"(.5).  I told him that
    story last night.  And he loved and seemed to grasp the concept
    that if you lie to someone they aren't going to believe you again.
    He kept reciting it back to me over and over changing the characters.
    
    His teachers mentioned to me that he had started lying at school,
    also.  She said that she was surprised at this because he was always
    such an honest child.  So she talked to him about it also and she
    thinks that he is feeling a lot of stress about the move.  She said
    that she had some books at home (good idea .6) that talked about
    lying and another that talked about moving.  She said that she
    would bring them in and try to set aside some quiet time with him
    to read them and then let me take them home so we could discuss
    it.  She has been very supportive of him (Nathan's going to miss
    her a LOT!)
    
    I'm going to see over the next few days if the lying seems to be
    subsiding and give him lots of love and lots of praise when he
    does tell the truth and hope that he feels secure enough not to
    feel he has to lie.
    
    Thanks for all of your help,
    Pam

You might also check out the most recent issue of Working Mother as it has
an article on children lying.

Liz

	My son went through, and occasionally still goes through, lying 
phases.  He is now 11.  On occasions when my wife and I felt certain he was 
lying, we'd tell him that if we found out later that he had lied, we'd 
punish him pretty severly.  We've also had times when he'd tell the truth 
about things he'd done for which he knew he'd get in trouble.  Many times 
we'd tell him that we were so impressed with his honesty that we'd overlook 
that particular incident.  He seems to be improving but it's something 
we're going to have to struggle with for some time to come.

			Ron

    Thanks for all the replies everyone.  Just thought I'd make an
    update.  
    
    It looks like this phase has passed, for now, I'm sure it will
    come back again and again over the years.  But he hasn't been
    lying for a few days now.  Even last night when we were watching
    Full House, and the little girl was lying, he was telling me that
    she was being naughty and she shouldn't do that because people
    wouldn't believe her anymore.
    
    Hopefully, the lesson will last, we'll have to see.  But, I'm
    so proud of him lately for being sure to tell the truth.
    
    Pam

    I need some opinions on something I've done, and probably will do
    again.  As I've mentioned before AJ (he's 4.5 now) is still having
    frequent toileting "accidents", but that's from both his history of so
    many bowel surgeries, and his refusal to sit still long enough to
    empty himself out.  Now his latest is he recognizes that he has an
    "accident" in his underwear, but when we realize it he denies that it
    has happened.
    
    We have punished him, NOT for the accident itself but for LYING, and he
    does know the punishment is for Lying, NOT for having an accident.
    
    Am I handling this correctly, or can I get suggestions for a better way
    of dealing with this.  This seems to be the only area where he
    frequently lies.
    
    Lyn

    One mother just recently told me she had her son "clean himself up"
    after an accident.  He decided that was the last time he'd ever do that
    again.  Maybe you need to put the responsibility on him.  As far as the
    lying goes - it could be that he doesn't want to admit that he made a
    mistake.  Why even ask - obviously you know who made the mess.  Just
    move on to the next step - have him clean it up!
    
    -sandy
    

I kindof agree with .-1...

Sorta like the Bill Cosby skit: (the one where he asks the kid, "What are
you doing?" when it's pretty obvious what the kid is doing!)

Put yourself in the kid's shoes for a sec... you've had an accident,
and your parent asks you: "Did you have an accident?"  More likely
than not, the parent's voice has a hard edge to it such that even
if it isn't DIRECTLY threatening, the kid somehow recognizes that
what the parent is asking about is a Bad Thing for which s/he's likely
to be punished.

If you're the kid, what do you do?  Say "Yes" and risk certain
punishment, or say "no" on the off-chance that Mom & Dad will buy
the lie this time and you can get away with your hide intact?

So the kid lies, and you punish him for lying!

Kinda like a no-win situation for the kid, no?

Much better, I think, to just jump directly into the situation ("Hmmm...
you've had an accident, kid!"), and deal with it.

    
    I totally agree with .12 and .13. Asking questions like that put
    the kid on the defensive. I am sure your kid didn't do it on purpose
    and making him answer that question is kind of insulting to him.
    We all get careless sometimes and we don't like other people to ask
    if we've been a scatter-brain. It's human nature.
    My daughter is 6 and once in a great while
    she still waits till the last possible nanosecond to rush to the
    bathroom. I just ask her to clean up her mess by starting the washing 
    machine for her dirty clothes. I do get on her back about it though by 
    asking her to use the bathroom before we go anywhere. 
    Maybe frequent reminders to your kid will be helpful.
    
    
    Eva