Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Dale,
    
    Funny you should ask. I was at my midwives' office yesterday for my 
    weekly appt (I'm 38 weeks now) and thought to myself how much they like
    to touch the baby. Maybe it's a midwife thing... they always feel my
    belly and say "Good, head down, anterior" (or posterior, whatever the
    baby is doing that day). I like this - it helps me feel connected to
    the baby. Yesterday she gave me a good (almost painful) palpation to
    confirm that the baby had dropped some. I used an Ob/Gyn last time and 
    I don't remember whether she did this or not.
    
    Yes, the midwife will usually look at her watch for a while and then
    give a heart rate, although yesterday she just listened. Then she
    gave the baby a nudge and listened as the rate rose in response
    (kind of a lower tech non-stress test). 
    
    Lucy

    My first child was born breech by c-section.  My mid-wife NEVER 
    touched my stomach.  When I was 5 days late, I went to another doctor
    because she was on vacation and he was pushing so hard it hurt.  He
    then said, "I can feel the head up, lets check on a sonogram".  I 
    figured he was crazy because my midwife had ALWAYS said, she was 
    head down.  Well, the backup doctor was right.  She was breech.
    I had a c-section the following morning after trying an external 
    version.
    
    My second and third children were VBAC by a new doctor.  I just
    couldn't trust that midwife after that...  
    
    Good luck!
    Janice

    Well, I remember my OB always answered my questions.  He would always
    preface some things with "every woman's pregnancy is different" just so
    I know that what happened to my mother or sister's wouldn't necessarily
    happen to me.  He checked the baby's position regularly and always kept
    me informed.  BTW - my older sister, mother and I all had the same
    "labor format" - but my younger sister broke the mold with her first.
    
    -sandy
    

    The first appointment I meet with the nurse who does an internal.
    This appointment is to confirm the pregnancy and see if the uterus
    feels larger than normal.  Second appointment is with doctor who
    does internal to feel size of uterus.  Every appointment thereafter,
    they palpitate my abdomen and will always be able to feel the
    head, feet, hands, etc (although they may confuse a hand w/a foot
    I would guess) and tell me what they are feeling.    
    
    I can't imagine the doctor or mid-wife not feeling the abdomen and
    if they do feel it, not knowing what body part it where.
    
    Donna
    

    My OB was very "touchy" when it came to my baby.  He'd point out
    things like hands, feet, her little butt, and always made me feel
    very comfortable.  He'd also tell me exactly which way the baby
    was facing so I had a real good picture in my mind of her position.
    He did this on every visit.
    
    When it came to checking the heart rate, if I asked what it was,
    he would always look at the clock on the wall and begin to count.
    But I wouldn't worry about your OB saying "Around 140"... 
    He probably listens to heartbeats all day long and has a real good
    feel for it.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    When I was going in for my checkups during my last pregnancy, the
    doctor told me that while he was pretty sure that the butt was
    here and the head was there, it's very easy to get them mixed up,
    and the error rate for such information is pretty high.  They
    prefer to rely on the sonograms now that they have a safe quick
    accurate way of looking inside.  
    
    If your doctor began his practice after the advent of ultrasound,
    he may never have learned how to tell the parts apart. 
    
    --bonnie

    I agree with Bonnie, my doctor often couln't really tell head from
    butt!  
    
    Also, you (basenoter) didn't mention how far along you are?  If you
    aren't too far advanced in your pregnancy the doctor may not feel for
    head nor tail.
    
    My doctor is an old timer, he relied on feeling and experience, but
    also used the ultrasound as a way of confirming suspicions.  
    
    But it sounds to me that you are not very happy with this doctor. 
    Perhaps it's not too late to change?
    
    By the way, I went VBAC with my second and third pregnancy.  If it were
    breech, my doctor said he would give me a trial of labor, with the
    possibility of doing a C-section, because this was my second/third
    pregnancy.  Luckily neither was breech.  Also, it depends how far into
    your pregnancy you are whether to be concerned about a breech
    presentation yet.  My fourth child was breech well into 34 weeks, then
    flipped.
    

    If I became an OB in this day-and-age, I agree with you Bonnie, that I
    would rely on technological results for information.  My OB, however,
    has been delivering since 1971.
    
    I suppose it's my own fault that I am disappointed in my doctor. 
    Because he was responsible (in my mind, anyway) for the successful
    birth of my son, Chase, I feel that I would be betraying him to go to
    someone else.  Even though commonsense tells me that I should have
    followed my head and not my heart.  For example, a few years ago, I had
    a tubal pregnancy. (The other tube was blocked.)  Being wheeled into
    surgery, I knew I would come out sterile (again; I had reconstructive
    surgery to open blocked tubes one year before this date).  I begged my
    doctor to try and save the tube and he prepared me for the possibility
    that depending on where the embryo was, he might not be able to.  When
    I woke up, he said "I saved it, but we can't reattach it until all the
    inflammation at the site has healed".  Three months later, he
    reattached the tube, cut out the blockage and repaired the other one,
    and 9 months later I had my little boy!  In a subsequent visit, I was
    shocked my his admission that I was the first patient that had had a
    tubal pregnancy in which he had saved the damaged tube!  When I asked
    him why, he said simply "You were the first person to ever ask me to
    save it!"...
    
    Well, since then, I had another tubal pregnancy (which ruptured
    completely and couldn't be salvaged), and guess what?.... The baby I'm
    carrying now floated down the tube I begged him to save!  So you see, I
    have a very STRONG emotional attachment to this doctor ... I just wish
    that he could tell me what position the baby is in!
    
    Dale

    For .7,
    
    I'm 36 weeks.  We've scheduled a sonogram for week 38.  (Too late to
    get a new doctor, and as you can see from my last reply, although I'm
    disappointed by what I perceive to be a lack of technique, I wouldn't
    trade him in....
    
    Dale

    
    Dale,
    
    I remember my OB telling me that even with ultrasound, they miss one
    or two breech births every year in his practice.  Although he always
    did an external exam, he said he was really guessing which parts were
    what.  His nurse practitioner would always say "I think this is the
    head, I think this is a foot..."  Until the week 37 when I dropped
    and they both said "head down engaged". 
    
    Maybe your doctor just doesn't like to guess?  Also I read in this
    notes file and heard from my doctor that the fetal heartrate really
    fluctuates between 120 and 160 bpm or so.  So counting by the clock
    may not be necessary for someone who listens to them all the time.
    
    Does your doctor do internal exams weekly after week 36?  I never
    looked forward to having that done?  They seem to get much more
    interested in the presentation during the last 4 weeks.
    
    Good luck and get lots of rest 
    
    Rochellef
    
    

The midwives I used would try a tell the baby's position by feel, but they were
making an educated guess and said so.  One could also tell heartbeat just by
listening.  The first time we heard it, she commented that she rarely has to
look at her watch.  The other two midwives in the practise both used their
watches.

    I don't know when she started but my Dr. did externally feel
    for the head.  It hurt!  But I could tell that the head was down too
    because the baby (Chase too!) kicked my ribs!  And when he had hickuped
    I could feel the head pushing down.  My Dr. didn't do routine
    ultrasounds though, so I was being pretty trusting!

    My docter didn't feel my stomach until the last weeks of pregnancy. 
    When labor was induced she told me that the baby was head down, high in
    the birth canel and weighed approximately 7 1/2 lbs.  She felt that the
    baby was not going to drop.  Sure enough I needed a C section, the baby
    was head down, and weighed 7lbs 5 ozs.
    
    Hopefully with this baby I can have a VBAC but the doctor has told me
    already the baby must be small and carried low before she will try one. 
    I really don't want another C but I really trust her judgement.  
    
    Angie

    re .13
    I'd really push back on your doctor about that one - sounds like s/he
    is setting some unreasonable limits for allowing you a VBAC. Wish I
    could remember where the article was which I just read last week,
    discussing this very subject. The article contended that many doctors
    in private/group practices will not support VBACs while doctors
    affiliated with teaching hospitals often will, simply because there are
    more doctors available at any given time of day to stay with the
    laboring mom.
    
    best of luck,
    

    Just to update everybody...
    
    I had an ultrasound on July 5th, and the baby is head-down!!!  They
    estimated that the baby weighs approximately 7lbs. 5 ozs., and
    everything looks great!
    
    The doctor is planning on letting me have a VBAC, so I'm hoping
    everything will work out that way! 
    
    Dale