Conference moira::parenting_v3

     Does he stay in the seat when you're in motion?  If so, seems to me that 
you don't really have a problem.  

     Kids get bored and restless, and need to stretch just like you do 
(actually probably more that you do), and need to walk around, just like the 
dog does.  I guess my off the cuff suggestion would be to let him out and have 
him help you walk the dog.

Clay

I disagree strongly with Clay.  This is a disaster waiting to happen.  If you
don't know for sure that the child is in his car seat, something going on
outside the vehicle could hurt or even kill him.

I don't think 2-1/2 is too young to try the following approach.  Tell him
that since you can't trust him to stay in his seat, then you won't be able to
take him on trips.

You could also try readjusting the straps so that they're tighter, but this
may not get you anywhere and just be more uncomfortable.  As for the window,
you could remove the handle.

But if I were faced with this sort of child, I'd make it very clear to him
that he would not be able to participate in family outings if he didn't
stay where he was put.

					Steve

    
    My reaction to this situation would be similar to Steve's.  Either
    tell him that he won't be able to ride in the car (probably impossible
    to actually do..) or discipline him in some manner.  
    
    While it sounds kind of funny in the basenote, it is a real safety
    issue, in my opinion.  Please don't let the child think that you find
    it funny or it will make the problem harder to solve...
    
    Carol

Steve,

     I'm not sure I made myself clear.  The base noter mentioned only that
the child gets out of the carseat at rest stops.  My suggestion was, when the
family stops at a rest stop, to let the child get out of the carseat, and
help the noter walk the dog.  The child would never be unattended, and would
be with a parent, with either a hand being held, or I suppose even on a leash
if necessary.  

     In the scenario presented, if the husband has to leave the car to pay,
for example, and the noter is off walking the dog, if the child remained in
the carseat, he would be unattended.  I'd rather have an attended child
outside the car than an unattended one in the carseat, especially at a gas
pump, where bad things can happen.

     Also it seems unreasonable to me to expect the child to stay in the car
seat when everyone else, even the dog, gets to get out of the car.    

Clay

    Its me again, mother of the escape artist.  I agree that it is a safety
    issue - it scared the you-know-what out of us the first time it
    happened.  Its not like he is really unattended in the vehicle, with my
    husband right there pumping gas, but he climbed out the passenger side. 
    In a motorhome, its hard to see that window while you are pumping gas.
    
    I don't know if its worse to leave him strapped in the seat or trying
    to hang onto him and the dog at the same time.  When we travel, my
    spouse *only* stops for gas and if we can't all potty in the time it
    takes to pump in 40 gallons, we are very unpopular with the driver 8*)
    
    So far, we have verbally disciplined him (its only happened twice) and
    I think I will take him with me from now on.  I guess my husband won't
    drive away without us.....   yuk yuk

    IMO, I agree with Clay - let your kid out to stretch and relax when the
    car has to stop for petrol. (The dog has more privileges that the old
    kid)  However, do emphasis to your son the dangers involved should he
    try the Houdini trick again and what u would do to him if he does it
    again.

    Parents might be interested to know my son's escape artist trick;-
    
    My wife mentioned to me that she was pleased that our son was too small
    to open the front door to the house.
    
    On hearing this my son proceded to demonstrate how he climbs on a chair
    and opens the front door when we are not around to do it for him !  
    
    Needless to say, we keep the front door bolted now, and we'll continue
    to until we feel that we can give him his freedom.
    
    Greg.  -who-has-installed-window-locks-for-the-same-reason

    Your son is not too young to start disciplining him with logic and
    reasoning.  I agree with Steve, simply tell him if he can't stay in his
    carseat when told, he won't come with you.
    
    I can recall OFTEN pulling over to the side of the road after
    discovering one of my children had unbuckled his seat belt, or gotten
    out of his car seat.  We would sit on the side of the road until he got
    back in and buckled up again!  There comes a time in every child's life
    where they become capable of doing things that put them at risk.  You
    have to explain to them why they may not do whatever it is that puts
    them at risk.  Then enforce a plan of action.  Be consistent.  And act
    on it with out exception.
    
    When my children were younger I found out they'd discovered a way to
    unlock the porch door quite by accident.  They were 3, 3 and 2
    respectively, and I never allowed them outside by themselves.  One day
    after just stepping out of the shower I heard little voices in the
    backyard, looked out and there they were, playing on the swing set!  My
    son had taken a chair, climbed up and unlocked the porch door, and let
    everybody out!  He thought he was pretty clever.  I was furious.  He's
    never done it again, after a stern lecture, and another lock.
    
    By the way, my husband was the type that never stopped for anything
    while on a trip.  Just gas, and no one was "allowed" out.  That's
    changed, but it's taken 8 years and numerous battles over it.  Kids
    deserve a stretch too, and wait til your son is out of diapers!  You'll
    know every public restroom avaiable on your travels!  And you'll HAVE
    to change your policy of "no potty breaks".  8*}
    
    

    As the mother of a former squirmer, I can sympathize.
    
    First, did you try ordinary "You ask before you get out of that
    car seat" discipline?  Did you try explaining why it's dangerous? 
    
    A five-point harness might help -- they're harder to get out of. 
    
    Tightening the straps can have a reverse effect, as I discovered
    with Kat.  The more uncomfortable she felt, the more likely she
    was to squirm out.  And she could and did squirm out of a
    five-point harness.  The only thing that worked with her was a
    combination of "This car stops the instant you aren't safe,"
    explanations of why she had to be in the car seat for safety, and
    not requiring her to be strapped down a moment longer than she had
    to.  
    
    A walking harness for your son might help, too.  Since I was a
    single parent with Kat and had to take her a lot of places I'd
    ordinarly leave the baby with my spouse, it made it a lot safer
    for both of us. 
    
    If it's too hard to manage him and the dog, perhaps you can work
    out an agreement -- "We'll go for a walk, and then you have to
    wait patiently in your seat while I walk the dog."
    
    --bonnie

I think you can handle this gently, using some of the suggestions
already made.  First, talk with him.  Tell him why you are concerned (even
in a gas station there is danger of being hit by a car/truck).
Next, tell him that when you get to gas stations, you will come around
and let him out with you, but he must walk quietly with you, so that
he will be safe.  Third, if he wants out and you haven't come around,
he must *ask* you to let him out, not do it himself.

Only if all of the above fails would I suggest that you threaten him
with no trips.  So far (I know, this is a risk) he has not done this
while the car is moving.  I think you may be able to get your way and his,
too.

Good luck!

     Carol

    This is kind of off-track, but I wanted to share this tip with kids,
    cars and parking lots....
    
    When we used to tell the kids "Stay close to the car!" when getting
    out, we found a lot of times that THEIR idea of close and OUR idea of
    close could vary quite a lot.  Now we tell them "Stay so you can TOUCH
    the car!".  It works VERY well, and I know, even if they get out on the
    other side, they won't be jumping in front of other cars....
    

    
    Re .11
    
    >> Now we tell them "Stay so you can TOUCH
    >> the car!".  It works VERY well, and I know, even if they get out on the
    >> other side, they won't be jumping in front of other cars....
    
    
    I do something similar with my 3-yr old Rasika in parking lots.
    I ask her to stand on the "yellow line" next to the car.  It works
    quite well.  
    
    						Pam
    

    Two thoughts on this, first in our car we have an absolute rule...
    
    you DO NOT get out of the car until I come around to your door and LET
    you out!  This came about after we discovered AJ knew how to unbuckle
    his car seat and was coming out through the driver's side door between
    the two bucket seats.  His door is equiped with a switch that won't
    permit it to be opened from the inside.
    
    Second, have you tried using a walking harness, the kind with a zipper
    up the back?  attaching it somehow to the carseat or car's seatbelt, so
    that even if he gets the carseat undone he still is restrained by the
    walking harness.
    
    Lyn