Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Let me kick off this note with my root question:
    
    Yesterday afternoon, shortly after getting home from the daycare
    center, my wife found a tick on Nicholas' ear. It was larger than we
    were led to believe (approx 1/8" across), so it was immediately
    noticable. It wasn't there when I picked him up at daycare, so he
    probably got it in our backyard.
    
    Kathy & I sprang into semi-panicked action; we doused the tick with
    alcohol, and removed it with tweezers. We got the whole tick, including 
    it's head (we hoped!) Since Nick was scheduled for his regular checkup
    this morning (30 lbs/36" at 19 months, BTW.. :^)), we wrapped the
    now-dead tick in tissue paper, put alcohol and neosporin on his ear,
    and had the doctor check things out today. Thankfully, he confirmed
    that we got the entire tick, and agreed that our reactions and
    treatment were crude but reasonable. He told us it was a dog tick, and
    that they were quite common; we had been concerned that it might have
    been a Lyme tick, which the doctor said were much smaller than the dog
    tick and were harder to spot. The crisis, as they say, was averted.
    (By the way, he told us of another method of tick removal: simply
    cover the tick area with a glob of vaseline. This cuts of it's oxygen,
    forces it to come up for air, at which point you can grab it without
    leaving the head imbedded...)
    
    However, this incident got us thinking...how can we minimize the
    chances of this happening again? We both realize that we can't
    eliminate the risk entirely, but are looking for ways to improve his
    odds. We know enogh to keep him properly dressed (long sleeves & pants,
    tight cuffs, etc) if we're in or near wooded areas, but last night he
    was only on the deck, and wasn't near any wooded areas or any brush.
    We starting wondering about the following:
    
    	- What does a tick-bite look like? (couldn't tell on Nick,
    	since we got to it so quickly, plus it was on his ear, rather
    	than a fleshy part of his skin...)
    
    	- What are some of the symptoms/effects of a tick bite? (in
    	addition to Lyme's disease)
    
    	- Do ticks fly? (might explain how he got one on him...)
    
    	- Can you spray or treat your yard to control ticks? If so, what
    	  do you use that's both safe and effective? (I already treat the 
    	  area around the house with diazinon every year to contol/prevent
    	  carpenter ants...will this work on ticks?)
    
    Looking forward to some helpful hints and advice. Thanks in advance.
    
    Freddie 
    
    

    OK I'll start the string....since it's my day to cover lunch phones and
    today the phones are quiet!
    
    We have a backyard electric fogger, if we're going to be out in the
    yard we usually fog between an hour up to a half hour before.  The bug
    light hangs on a tree, but other than a good "light show" it's not real
    effective.  (If you have a bug light, hang it AWAY from where you are,
    the object of the game is to draw bugs TO the light and AWAY from where
    you are)
    
    I've used back woods OFF on AJ, so did his sitter last year.  Spray it
    on your hand first and apply it to their hands, arms, legs, necks and
    belly's especially too.  Some of the insect world last year was pretty
    persistant, right through clothes.  I don't use Skin so soft, I guess
    I'm a skeptic and don't believe it repels insect, but IMO the smell of
    the stuff would keep anyone away!
    
    For first aid after the bites, an old method of a paste of baking soda
    and water applied to the bite area, calemine or preferably caladryl
    lotion, let both of these dry.  For stings apply ice and if you can
    visualize a stinger try to remove it with tweezers, then do any of the
    above or below.  Solarcaine or ambesol  are great for killing the itch 
    or sting of bug bites.
    
    And the favorite warning to just be aware of potential
    allergic (anyphelactic) reactions, with symptoms of chest pain, 
    flushed face, extreme swelling near the bite, difficulty swallowing or 
    breathing, these symptoms will need immediate hospital treatment, 
    best to call 911 for these.
    
    Lyn
    (mom,EMT,and wife of someone very allergic to bee stings)

    
    For bad bites and bee stings I crush one asprin tablet, add a drop of 
    water, and push the paste into the wound. Cover with a bandaid.
    
    If I don't I will get a histimine(sp) reaction in short order.
    
    Doug.

    re .3  I'd NOT do the asprin thing, you do realize that asprin is ACID
    and can cause an acid burn?  
    
    re .1, not sure what to recommend if you'r talking large areas to
    spray, but most flea spray for animals also controls ticks, and can be
    sprayed on other areas. 
    
    My parents had a problem with fleas in the lawn furniture cushions,
    they sprayed it with the commercial (Hartz Mountain brand) flea and
    tick spray.  Worked great for them.
    
    Lyn

    a paste of adolphs meat tenderizer (use the unflavored kind or you'll
    smell like garlic) on a fresh sting or insect bite will neutralize
    the venom and usually eliminate the pain, swelling, itching and other
    responses.
    
    Bonnie

    Just a little warning if you plan to spray your yard.  Start AT THE
    HOUSE and work AWAY from it.  If  you start at the perimeter and work
    TOWARDS the house, you'll drive all the pests into your house.
    

    
    
    re: 851.2
    
    >> For stings apply ice, and if you can visualize a stinger
    >> try to remove it with tweezers....
    
    Don't try to remove a honeybee stinger with tweezers. A honeybee
    stinger is basically a hypodermic(sp?) needle with attached poison
    sack. Squeezing the poison sack with tweezers only injects more
    poison before the stinger is removed. Honeybee stingers should be 
    scraped out... like with a blunt knife edge or long fingernail. 
    They are usually not embedded deeply. If you (or your child) has 
    allergies to honeybee stings, you should get a bee sting kit . 
    These are prescribed by  doctors and usually contain and 
    antihistamine and a single does of epinephrine (which is injected).
    
    Benedryl is an extremely effective antihistamine. It is available
    over the counter and should be part of your first aid kit, and 
    should accompany any spring/summer outdoor activity.
    
    I was once a beekeeper, and had been stung many, many times. 
    I was working on a hive, and was stung in the leg. Thinking nothing
    of it, I put the hive back together and went inside (elapsed time, 
    5-10 minutes). All of the sudden, my whole body started to itch. 
    After about 5 minutes, I started to swell. I took double the 
    recommended dosage of Benedryl, but it did not help. I went to the 
    hospital (20 minutes). By the time I got to the hospital, my 
    blood pressure was VERY low, and I was well on the way to 
    anaphylactic shock. One of the things they asked me is what I had 
    taken and how much. They then proceeded to give me more Benedryl, 
    as well as epenephrine and some other things. All in all, I had over
    6 times the recommended dosage. 
    A bee sting kit can be cumbersome to take anytime you go somewhere. 
    Benedryl, when taken IMMEDIATELY, will lessen the severity of 
    most stings/bites/histamines. Also remember that any prolonged itching
    and swelling (especially if it is not the area that was stung) after 
    an insect bite may be an indication of a systemic allergic reaction. 
    
    doug
    

>                       <<< Note 851.4 by GOLF::TRIPPL >>>
>                                -< NOT Asprin! >-
>
>    re .3  I'd NOT do the asprin thing, you do realize that asprin is ACID
>    and can cause an acid burn?  
    
    I've been doing this for years. As I am highly alergic to many things,
    the histemine reaction from a sting or bite can last 3 or more months
    if not treated immediately.
    
    A doctor recommended the asprin application many moons ago. I have yet
    to burn myself and it is very affective.
    
    Doug.

    re: basenoter
    
    The tick could have been on your son's clothing or in his hair
    from somewhere else and climbed to his ear after you got home.  
    They also like to get in pet fur, so if you have a dog or cat
    that's a very likely source. 
    
    Ticks don't fly.  They live in brush and grab onto passing
    animals.  The kind of brush favored depends on the species; they
    tend to live at about the height of the animal that they prefer to
    live on -- dog ticks will be lower down than cow ticks.  Cow ticks
    can be as large as a housefly and they favor sagebrush,
    greasewood, and scrub juniper.  Scrub juniper is those little
    trees the builder plants in front of your house before he sells
    it, so your house looks like it's been landscaped.  
    
    Ticks also carry rocky mountain spotted fever, which despite its
    name is more prevalent in eastern states.  
    
    I don't know that much of this does anyone any good, especially
    since I don't know what kinds of bush are favored by eastern kinds
    of ticks . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    I have a question for people in New England about deer ticks.
    Ever since Lyme disease started getting so much press, I've been
    hyper-alert for deer ticks, and have yet to spot one. If they
    are only the size of a pinhead, as I have read, can you really 
    see them? It seems like you'd have to go over every pore of your
    kid's body to find one...
    
    And do they really occur in suburban areas, or do you have to be
    out in the boonies to find them?
    
    Last question: does Skin So Soft work against deer ticks (or dog
    ticks either, for that matter)?
    
    Lucy

    I asked my pediatrician about bug repellents and she said NOT to use
    Skin So Soft.  It is categorized as a cosmetic and not a drug, and
    so it has not gone through the thorough drug testing.  She advised
    not to use it on my (then) infant daughter bacause she could not say
    what long term exposure would do to her skin.
    
    Stephanie is sensitive to mosquito bites (they swell up over the size
    of a half dollar).  She said to use commercial DEET repellent with
    DEET ON HER CLOTHES only.
    
    					Mair
    

re: .10, Skin So Soft

Sorry, but I think all you will get on that is anecdotal evidence
("we use SSS, and haven't found any deer ticks on our kids"), and
personal opinion.  All the manufacturer will do is to refuse to say
that it WON'T  keep ticks away, but to my knowledge it's never been
tested in any way, and Avon has never made any positive statement
that it works as an insect repellent.  I tend to doubt it, but there 
are folks who swear by it.

Clay

    As a matter of fact, AVON _does_ claim that SSS will keep the
    mosquitoes away.  Saw it in last fall's catalog.  Personally, you'd
    have to strap me down to get that stuff on me (P.U.!), so I don't know
    of it's effectivness.
    
    About the tick bite - I don't believe that a tick will just bite and go
    away.  They want to drink your blood .... with a screw-like head, they
    embed their heads under the skin of the victim, and drink the blood
    until they get so big they explode, killing the tick, but leaving the
    head embedded under the victim's skin.  At least that's what I've
    always heard.
    
    As far as deer ticks ... I've never seen one.  We live in Nashua.  As
    far as I know, no one's ever been 'bitten' by one - or at least no
    one's been mysteriously ill.
    
    I'm going to be daring for a moment here and put a twist on the
    recommended ways to avoid ticks.  The long sleeves, long pants approach
    never made a lot of sense to me because it would seem that it would be
    easier for a tick to latch onto a piece of clothing than onto skin, and
    could go unnoticed for a much longer period of time.  I just wear
    whatever I'm wearing, and then when we get home, everything goes in the
    wash and we check SKIN!!  If you insist on covering up everything, make
    it light colored clothing so that you can SEE them if they get on you.
    
    This is a true story; 
    We went for a walk through a field, and everyone had the recommended
    long pants, long shirts etc.  We got back to the car, check everyone
    for ticks, found none and continued on our trip.  About 15 mins later
    my mother started screaming, come to find 3 ticks crawling up inside
    her sweater.  She found 2 more on her back, and a couple up her legs. 
    The dog was *COVERED* wth them, crawling over each other there were no
    many.  A a few days later we found 1 embedded in the back of my
    brother's knee.  I really believe that if it'd just been skin, we'd
    have found them much sooner - and probably had less of them!!
    
    

    Consumer Reports evaluated various bug repelants a year or more 
    ago.
    
    They found that SSS was better than nothing, but far worse than
    anything else available.
    
    (I hope I'm paraphrasing them correctly)
    
    Bonnie

    There was some lab testing done on Skin-So-Soft quite recently -- 
    I don't remember the details, but it was enough to allow Avon to
    advertise it as more than a cosmetic.
    
    --bonnie

    Hi,
    
    This is my first entry in this conference.  My wife and I are expecting
    our first (and only she says) in 6 weeks.
    
    We were in a local crafts shop in Londonderry yesterday and I noticed
    they were selling SSS in the paint department.  It was being hyped as
    an efficient cleaning agent for acrylic paints.
    
    One might ask how it softens skin.
    
    Loren

    SSS is also used to take tar off your car.  So, Loren, you bring up
    a good point.
    
    I have tried SSS for a repellent and it does not work on anyone in my
    family.  The kids hate the oilyness of it.  But, I do know some who
    swear by the stuff.
    
    Julie

    
    I fellow I hunt with got bit by a deer tick (inside this boots on his
    ankle) while we were hunting a field in Hudson NH. He never saw of felt
    the tick but the sweeling it left behind was unmistakable. He went to
    the doctor to verify that he had lyme disease and was put on an 
    anti-biotic (tetracyclene SP?) to be rid of it.
                                   
    Doug.

For lyme disease, always remember BULLSEYE.  That is the mark left on your
skin after a tick bites you. Red rings inside other red rings. The sooner
you get treatment the easier it is to cure. And, it can kill you if you don't
treat it.

They had a write-up on it in a Parade (boston globe sunday mag) a few months
ago and since my sister-in-law has it, I read it very carefully. She says
she doesnt remember any bite or any bullseye.  She now has a  bad case that
wasnt diagnosed until late (like years later) because she was being treated
for MS., and now she is very very ill and disabled with both diseases.

For lyme disease, always remember BULLSEYE.
			-N

    RE:19
    As your sister experienced - I understand that the bullseye red rings
    may or MAY NOT appear - save the tick if you have any question.
    FWIW
    JR

    .20 
    
    Right -- the bullseye does not always appear. Frequently there are
    no symptoms until the disease is well established (if the bite 
    gave you Lyme disease at all -- being bitten by a deer tick does not 
    guarantee Lyme disease). 
    
    This, combined with the improbability of finding the ticks once on
    the body, has turned me into a real worry-wart. Kinda spoils those
    carefree spring walks in the woods...
    
    Lucy 

    Since this is the bug note, I thought I would ask this here.
    
    What do you do with a house infested with ants, and an infant who loves
    to crawl and get into EVERYTHING?
    
    My husband sprays outside with a low concentration of Diazinol. We use
    ant cups inside the house, but only in places where the baby is not
    allowed (bathroom floor, kitchen counters, etc).
    
    Any other ideas?
    
    Donna

    ANT! Ewwww-yuccckkk!  The very thought makes my skin crawl!  But we've
    already seen signs of things yet to come.  They seem to be a little
    early this year.  
    
    We bought a pump type spray can, at BJ's, and I'm pretty sure we too ar
    using Diazinol in the normal recommended strength.  This year we swore
    we'd get to them before they got to US!  We've been out both last
    weekend, and this weekend and sprayed the foundation, the cellar door
    area,up and down the driveway, concentrating the spray _right into_ the
    many ant hills.  And the biggest help is to remember to spray _right
    after Every_ rainstorm.
    
    Oh yes, as I recall you're no supposed to kill spiders, or destroy the
    webs, the spiders are supposed to be helpful in catching and reducing
    ants.  The other thing that's important is to keep as much of their
    food source sealed in plastic.  I use either the rubbermaid (like
    tupperware) plastic containers for things like cereal, rice, flour and
    sugar laden things especially, and as many things as possible in zip
    lock bags.  I have no problem placing the ant cups, I can't remember
    which brand but there's one that is in a solid state in a little white
    plastic cup, right next to the food boxes.  There is another brand but
    it has a cornmeal like powder, which frequently spills out when its
    upset.
    
    Just my 2 cents worth!  Someone told me they're supposed to gone by
    July.  We'll see!
    Lyn

    .22
    
    I would be very reluctant to put any kind of insecticide on or near the
    floor, low cabinets, etc.  Even though the baby is not "allowed" on the
    bathroom floor, there may be a time when you have your back turned for
    a second and zoom, there she goes... it happened with my son lots of
    times. Better ants in the house than a baby eating ant poison.
    
    Lucy
    

    Here's what we do for ant problems (I HATE ants!)...
    
    Purchase the granule type ant killer (it might be Diazenon).
    Remove all of your electrical plates, roll up a piece of
    paper and pour in a fair amount of granules into the wall
    section behind the outlets. This seems to stop them from ever 
    getting into the house.  They find the granules, take them
    back to the nest and feed them to the rest of the colony.
    It's their 'last supper'. 
    
    Good luck.
    
    Jodi-
    

    RE:.22
    
    What kind of ants are you talking about? If they're the big, black
    carpenter ants, they are attracted by damp, punky wood, rather than
    food.
    
    In any event, we are/were plagued by carpenter ants. After having the
    house professionally exterminated when we first moved in (pre-pre-baby!)
    we spray around the foundation of the house with liquid Diazinon at
    least twice/year: once in early May, and again in mid-summer. The
    treatments seem to be effective, and we very rarely see any ants in the
    house anymore. (We also removed/repaired some pieces of punky wood, so
    that helped as well.) If you decide to use Diazinon, keep in mind that
    it acts as a barrier in both directions: it'll help keep ants away from
    the house, but it'll also keep those already inside from escaping.
    
    Good luck, and keep a rolled-up newspaper handy to take care of any
    stragglers...
    
    Freddie, king of the bug-hunters.

    re .24, I NEVER said anything about putting the stuff INSIDE, I clearly
    said the foundation and the driveway.  The stuff smell bad enough
    coming in from the outside, I'd be physically sick if it were inside.
    
    re .26, I've never studied ants, all I know is they're the huge big
    black, fat kind.  and in a phrase D*mn those things are determined! 
    Last year they found some left over easter candy I had *stashed* in a
    metal 2 drawer file cabinet in the den, the absolute opposite end of
    the house from the driveway, which we believe to be the primary source
    for them.  They were litterally climbing up the walls at one point. 
    This whole recollection makes me crawl, and is definitely not a topic
    for "over lunch"
    
    Lyn

    Lyn,
    
    I was referring to .22, where Donna said "We use ant cups inside 
    the house, but only in places where the baby is not allowed 
    (bathroom floor, kitchen counters, etc)." 
    
    My concern was the baby getting at the ant cups.
    
    Lucy
    

    Carpenter Ants --the big black ugly kind--live in wet wood, but eat
    food--sugar, crumbs,etc...so you need to get rid of the wood AND their
    food sources.
    
    Susan

    Sorry for not making myself clear, I keep my food in above the sink
    cabinets anyway, therefore any ant cups I use would be high above the
    level of little people.  
    
    For what its worth, even the CATS' food is on a top shelf, at the same
    level with my cleaners! and that's in a sealed plastic container.
    
    My poor husband has never understood why I keep just about anything I
    can in the fridge during the summer "bug" season!  But I bet everyone
    else does?
    
    Lyn

    Thanks for the ant info so far.  
    
    The ants are the big black type.
    
    re .26:  You had a professional exterminator for ants?
    		
    If anyone has recent experience in Southern NH with exterminators
    could you reply (by mail if necessary) as to cost, and reputable companies?
    We opened the phone book to find four pages of Chemical companies.
    
    Donna

    The only large ants in the New England area are Carpenter ants.  They
    are attracted by wet wood as it is easier for them to burrow through
    (they don't eat it, just push through it).  They come in around this
    time of year, mostly because their ground nests become flooded.  Also,
    if you've disturbed a nest outside, been doing digging, have rotted
    trees, they tend to move (into your house!).
    
    We had an ant nest outside that my son uncovered under a rock a few
    years back.  We put the rock back, and I thought that was the end of
    it.  Apparantly him and his dad thought it was neat, so every day they
    went and uncovered the rock and poked around at the ants, until there
    weren't too many ants left.  Well, the next morning there was an ant in
    the bathroom, so I put down the ant traps (BTW - according to poison
    control, ant traps are 98% peanut butter etc, and even if a kid ate the
    whole thing, the worst that would happen is they'd throw up - ask me
    how I know!).  Anyway, that night I came home and my kitchen floor
    literally MOVED.  There were more than hundreds of ants, and they were
    literally crawling out of the woodwork.  The exterminator came the next
    evening.  He said that there was at least one nest that had moved in
    (the nest hubby and son had disturbed), and each nest consists of 500
    to 5,000 ants.  He bombed the basement, sprayed inside the whole house,
    upstairs and down, sprayed outside the house, top to bottom, around all
    windows/doors etc, and dumped powder behind the kitchen sink and under
    the stove.  I think it was about $85.00.  He also said that if we'd
    waited a few months (though I don't see how we could stand it!), they
    would have eaten right through the sill of the house ....!
    
    So, BEWARE, they're more than just yecky, they're dangerous.  If you'd
    like to use my exterminator (NH/MA - he'll travel!) he comes *HIGHLY* 
    recommended and has always done a great job	for us and other folks I've
    referred to him. His name is Joe Giroux, his company is K&L Exterminators, 
    and his number is (508)957-5550 or (in MA)800-649-9310.  You can mention 
    my name when you call him (Patty Weier), if you'd like.

    Also, when we had this work done, Jason was a baby, and he said that
    they chemicals used were not harmful for kids/pets unless they were
    going to go lick the baseboards.  We had to be out of the house for an
    hour after he sprayed, couldn't go in the basement for 3 hours after
    the bomb.  If I did it again, I'd have him open all the windows and
    plan to go out for ~2 hours - it smells pretty strong.  As far as
    price, plan on about $100.00, depending on what's going on exactly -
    he'll tell you over the phone.  Most 'larger' companies START at about
    $200 - $300.00!!!
    
    Good luck!!  I'd get rid of 'em if I were you!!!
    
    Patty
    

    Yeah, like Patty said, carpenter ants can cause a great deal of damage.
    When we had the home inspection done before buying our house, the 
    inspector found a couple of active nests of carpenter ants. The damage
    done to that point was slight, but without treatment, it could have 
    gotten much, much worse. 
    
    He also said not to be too concerned about the ones that you could see,
    since you could then kill them; he told us to worry about the ones that we
    *didn't* see, since they were the one's doing the damage. He also quoted
    some statistic that said for every ant you see, there were (10, 100,
    1000?) living in the house that you couldn't see. (On the bright side, 
    he said that since we had so many carpenter ants, we wouldn't have to 
    worry about termites; the ants attack and eat the termites, so they don't 
    usually coexist in the same area.)
    
    If you see a lot of ants, I'd suggest you have a professional come in 
    to check things out (Check out the HOME_WORK notes file, where lots of
    references and hints are available)...you may have an active nest, and 
    treating it yourself may scatter the nest rather than eliminate it.
    Once the nests are destroyed, you can set up your own program of
    'preventative maintenance.'
    
    Since the house was vacant for 2 months before we moved in, we decided 
    to have it professionally exterminated. It cost us approx $75 (back in
    1983). Since then, I take care of it myself with twice-annual sprayings
    of liquid Diazinon around the outside of the foundation (approx $10/quart, 
    and I use about a pint per treatment.) So far, it seems to be effective...
    
    Good luck.