Conference moira::parenting_v3

    We never had a changing table for Andy, just a pad on an appropriate 
    sized dresser. It's a little tough now, since he's stronger and
    squirmier, but I just quickly change his diaper on the dresser, then
    put him on the floor to change his clothes. For what it's worth, you
    can buy a corral-type attachment for the top of a dresser to make it
    more like a changing table. 
    
    We had a swing that he hated as an infant. Your mileage may vary
    greatly. We used a playpen for him to nap in on our first floor when
    he was very young. It does, however, take over half of our living room.
    We now use it as a large toy box.
    
    

Alot of the currently-available baby stuff is obviously *not necessary*.
People have been raising babies for eons without most of  these things.
Your decision to skip the cradle sounds goood.  You might want to lay the
baby width-wise in the crib and roll a blanket to confine the size of the
crib when the baby is very young.

This list is my experience only...I'm sure there are folks who couldn't live
without something I found to be non-essential.   This list is based on the
experience of one child:


Necessities (cause it's the law!):
==================================
Car seat/carrier - get one that does both for the added convenience and
		   space saving

Nice to have:
=============
Stoller (of some type, definitely something that collapses due to your
	space limitations, though you might consider storing it in your
	trunk!)
Walker - personal experience only

Can Live without:
=================
Swing- maybe borrow one; relieving yourself of the need to store long-term
High chair - really, my son's babysitter doesn't have one!  
Baby Monitor
Snuggli
Tons of Stuffed Animals and Toys

Didn't Use at all:
==================
Changing Table (well, okay, I used it for a couple months..most changes are
		done on the sofa or the floor)
Baby Bath Tub (the kitchen sink worked better)
Play pen (NEVER USED - there's a whole note on playpen pro/cons somewhere)


Clothing -
===========
I recommend 1-pc. t-shirts for babies until they reach toilet training age.
Regular t-shirts just bunch up in their armpits!   The ones that snap all
the way up the front are easiest for young babies without good head control.
Outfits and pajamas with built-in feet are also my choice up until around
9 months.  Had no use for shoes until then either.

I'll stop now.  This note is already too long!

Carol

Things that stayed in the closet or drawers ....

Nightgowns (like the kind the hospital uses that tie at the back) ....
     Sleepers / "baby-gro"s were just so much more convenient 

Sleepers that opened at the back

Most dresses except when it was time for pro photos!  (We let the grandparents
     and aunties buy all the early dresses!)

Fancy clothes ...  our kids always tended to glurp up their food so fancy
     appliques on clothes always tended to get shot at ... so to keep them
     looking reasonable they stayed away ... then they rarely got worn.
     (So ... save your money ... let relatives buy the fancy clothes!)

Lots of sheets and blankets ...  We got a number of bottoms but only a
     few tops (they tend to get kicked down the bed under whatever's on top
     anyway) and got a couple of crib size quilts (comforters) and some
     blankets for winter.

Vests ...  we used a few vests ... but they were as much of a pain as a
     blessing ...  they tend to ride up on the chest.  They were useful
     before the cord came off becasue the sleepers tended to catch on it.

Pillows ...  we never used a pillow for our kids until they were about 2.

Baby towels etc ...  apart from one hooded towel the girls used our
     day to day towels etc

Gadgets ... the only gadget that got a lot of use was the Snugli carrier.
     We didn't have a monitor for the first 2 kids, although it was handy
     with the last.

Feeding paraphernalia ...  there was lots of stuff that we just didn't use
     and wouldn't really have used if we had them.

Bottle sterilization equipment ...  fortunately we never had any, and
     quickly started using disposable feeders.  Most was washed in the
     dishwasher and "sterilized" in a pan on the stove!  (And that nonsense
     only lasted about 4 months!)


Things that really got used a lot ...

Receiving blankets ...

Diapers ...  English style flannelette and terry towel ...  but not just as
     diapers ...   they were clothes protectors (over the shoulder when
     burping) ... feed moppers ... dribble catchers ... sick mops (under
     the head on the bed) ... puddle preventers (when "airing" the bottom).

Sleepers

Bibs ... with the plastic on the right side ...  When they are little
     the plastic goes on the baby side.  When they are bigger and eating messy
     food, the plastic goes on the food side!  Kangaroo bibs are handy later.

Bouncy chair  ...  a cloth hammock style chair, slightly tipped up, on a
     bouncable wire frame.  You can bounce it easily with your toe while
     sitting in your favourite chair!  Thus keeping baby relatively happy.

A wind up swing ...  We didn't have one for our first ... the colicky one
     and sadly regretted it when we had one for #2!



The layette lists are just phenomenal ... but just think about what you your
baby really needs and you won't go far wrong.

Stuart

    I too live in a small apartment, so I know what you mean about
    wanting only the essentials. The trouble is, sometimes you don't
    know what's essential til you get there... 
    
    We didn't have room for a playpen, so never considered it. We also 
    skipped the portable crib, though I see how handy they are. Someone
    gave us an infant swing, but like .1, our baby hated it - you may need
    one if your child finds it comforting. 
    
    One thing I found very useful was a baby seat; could be a Rocka-Roo
    or the portable part of an infant car seat. Another thing that was
    a big hit was a jolly jumper type seat/swing - didn't take much space.
    
    You don't need a lot of equipment when they're very little. We used
    a Snuggli when ours was tiny, later a backpack and stroller. At about
    eight months we got him a highchair. You could even avoid that by
    using a sassy seat if you have the right kind of table. 
    
    Lucy
    

    My list of essentials for a newborn:

    1. diapers
    2. a car seat
    3. a place for the baby to sleep

    Everything else is optional!

    There are some tradeoffs you can make.  You can have less clothes, bedding,
    etc. if you're willing to do laundry frequently.  If laundry facilities
    aren't *very* convenient, you'll probably want to get more clothes (but
    baby clothes don't take up much space, anyway).  Toys and books can wait
    until your baby is old enough to enjoy them (at least 3 months, I'd say).
    That gives you a chance to find out what the baby's tastes are, so that
    you don't get a lot of stuff that just sits around neglected.  We do our
    toy shopping with the kids along, so we can see what they're attracted to
    at the store, and use that as a guide for what to buy.

    It's awfully hard to resist all those wondeful baby things!  You might
    also want to start thinking about how to keep down the volume of gift
    toys and gadgets - we've found that almost all the toys that gather dust
    are gift toys, and a lot of the clothes that bever get worn are also
    gifts.  (I must confess that a lot of the unused "gadgets" are things
    we bought ourselves, though.)

				cheryl

>    1. diapers
>    2. a car seat
>    3. a place for the baby to sleep

... and the place for the baby to sleep can perfectly well be your own bed,
so even that doesn't require any extra expense (or space taken up in an
apartment).

    There are probably as many opinions on "what a baby really needs"
    as there are babies, parents, and grandparents!
    
    In clothing:
    
    Onesies (one piece underwear that snaps at the crotch.  Keeps
    diapers from slipping!  Also handy for the little one to wear
    alone in warm weather.)
    
    One-piece sleepers -- INVALUABLE.
    
    Diapers. Whichever way you go (disposables or cloth), keep some
    of the other kind on hand for the day when you run out, can't get 
    to the laundromat, etc., etc.  If you use cloth diapers, get some
    waterproof pants.
    
    Equipment:
    
    Car seat.  The only problem with getting the kind that doubles as an
    infant seat is that you're constantly taking it in and out of the car.
    For convenience's sake, you may want to get a regular infant seat
    that you can keep in the house.  Depending on your babys size and
    activity level, you can use this for feedings, etc., till the baby
    is six months or so.
    
    Crib.  Much more useful to us than a bassinet.  Although I wish now
    I had had a porta-crib; the collapsible play yard we used was
    awfully awkward to schlep around to Grandma's, Auntie's, etc.
    
    Bedding:
    
    Fitted crib sheets
    Receiving blankets.  Buy plenty of both.
    
    Something like a sweater or jacket to wear for the cool weather or
    if going into an air conditioned store.  A hat may be useful, too,
    but James hated hats.  
    
    I found a swing was a real godsend, but they do take up space.  Some
    babies adore them, some detest them.  See if you can borrow one
    and try it out; if the baby likes it, then you can decide if you
    want to buy or not.
    
    I wouldn't bother with toys, books, mobiles, or any of that jazz
    right now.  They're fun later, but in these first months, all the
    baby really needs is you.
    
    Good luck!

>... and the place for the baby to sleep can perfectly well be your own bed,
    
    For some this works ... but for others this is a disaster.
    
    . It can cause all kinds of resentment between you and your partner
       (baby is more important than partner etc ...)
    . The child grows up thinking they can come into your bed at just
       any old time ... privacy can be difficult (!)
    . Sleep is already at a premium for you and / or your partner and
       having baby in the same room (let alone bed) can result in even
       more disturbances if you are "sensitive" to the baby's sleeping
       noises.
    . Sore backs etc ... as you try to position yourself to sleep in
       a manner to avoid baby.  Once the baby starts to be able to move,
       they have an uncanny ability to be able to rotate sideways in
       the bed and kick the middle of your back.  (We didn't have any
       of ours regularly in our bed but I have woken up enough times
       when we did to learn to tell the difference between the kid's
       kidney kicks and real kidney problems!)
    . If you are a restless sleeper, and toss and turn a lot, there may
       not be enough room in anything less than a queen or king size
       bed.
    
    Stuart

    Another opinion:
    
    We didn't use the "onesies" (snap-crotch t-shirts) for our October
    baby.  She gets hot easily and was comfortable wearing just the terry
    stretchy or blanket sleeper.  She never wears t-shirts.  Sears carries
    terry stretchies at a reasonable price and they are accurately sized in
    a whole range.  
    
    Socks.  We go through one or two plain white pairs per day.
    
    A baby blanket.  Useful for wrapping your fall newborn to keep the
    chills away.  You can also use a large adult wool sweater for wrapping
    OR on top of a sleeping baby.
    
    We change her on the bed.  Rubber changing pads with flannel on both
    sides have been very useful. 
    
    A sleeping bag, baby-size.
    
    A vinyl shoulder-strap bag to use as a diaper bag.
    
    Playtex disposable bottle system.
    
    Musical mobile.  She adored hers.  It was the first thing she smiled
    at.
    
    That's it for now. . .
    Laura

    My son is 8 months old (he was born at the end of July) and these 
    are the things I have found very useful so far:
    
    Clothing
    --------
    
    Onesies (I don't know how my mother lived without them! :-) )
    socks (if your baby won't be wearing crib shoes, you'll need lots
    of warm ones)
    blanket sleepers (especially if your baby will be born in September)
    a snow suit (I tried using the pram suits but found they just weren't
    warm enough)
    a hat or two (the babies head should be covered at all times while
    outside in the winter months)
    lots of sweat suits
    
    Furniture
    ---------
    
    changing table (I, personally, could not live without it)
    crib
    
    Miscellaneous
    -------------
    
    cloth diapers (I used them for burp rags.  If you're going to use
    cloth diapers as opposed to disposables, you'll also need diaper
    pins and plastic pants)
    baby seat (I used to put Shane in his seat to give him his bottle
    when I was busy trying to cook dinner and he decided that he couldn't
    wait)
    wind-up swing (this was a God send!)
    Johnny Jump-Up (keeps him occupied for hours!)
    crib sheets
    receiving blankets (they make great covers for the changing table
    pad)
    baby quilts and afghans
    diaper pail (I use this as his hamper)
    walker (I have two, one at home and one at my mother's.  I think
    Shane would go nuts without it)
    
    Things I could do with out
    --------------------------
    
    cradle
    playpen (it takes up too much room and he only screams when I put
    him in it)
    most of his toys
    his fancy clothes
    baby bath (as a previous noter mentioned, the kitchen sink works
    better)
    
    Lori B.

    After 3 kids and expecting #4, here is what we found "essential":
    
    * crib
    * place to change diapers (and this could be bed, couch or floor...but
      remember if you have to bend or lean too much, it can cause backaches)
    * stroller of some sort (or a snuggli when thery're small enough)
    * car seat
    * infant seat for the house (too much hassle, in our opinions, to take
      car seat in and out all the time).
    *clothing:
      -lots of onesies type undershirts
      -lots of stretchy sleepers
      -2 or 3 pairs of socks (sometimes, if chilly enough, you may want to
       put them on under the sleepers.)
      -2 or 3 nice outfits (relatives frequently buy these!)
      -a snowsuit, if you live where you'll need one
      -a sweater
      -and, obviously, diapers!
    
    
    May be essential...
    *baby monitor....if you cannot hear the baby in its room, when you are,
    say, in the kitchen cooking dinner. Beats running to their room every 5
    minutes!
    
    Nice, but certainly not necessary:
    *swing - ours liked 'em...yours may or may not
    *jumper (the kind that hang in the doorways) ours *loved, loved, LOVED*
    these and freed up many minutes to do other things for mom & dad.
    *walker - again, ours loved these, but you can get by just as nicely
    without one!
    
    hope all the suggestions have helped you!
    
    --dave--

    re: .8
    
    i know many families who never used a crib without all the horrible
    consequences mentioned and who talk of many benefits.
    
    you might try living without it for a few months and borrow a bassinet
    to experiment with later when you can monitor the dog.  cribs are
    expensive and big so it could be a prime candidate for your space
    saving requirement.
    
    =ss

Also see notes 303.* for what clothes are really needed.

     Carol dB, PARENTING co-moderator

I would buy the minimum you need at first.  I would also consider borrowing/
renting as much of the equipment as you can, simply because most of it you
won't need after the first few months.

My sister laughed when I said I was going to just put my daughter in toddler
t-shirts and tie a knot at the bottom.  I actually did do that at times and
it worked just fine.

We could not have lived without:

Infant seat - the kind with metal frame and cloth seat stretched across it.  She
did all her naps in it for the first month.

Infant swing - sometimes was the only thing that could calm that colicky baby.
This was a loan from friends; she outgrew it at the same time as the colic.
I often carried her in this at malls, etc, before her head was stable enough
for a snugly.  

I bought a sling when she was about 6 weeks, and wish I had had one from the
beginning.


Crib - this is her place.  When she's over-tired or sick, she wants to be in 
her crib.  She stretches out and relaxes.

Sleepers/sleeping bags - she prefers the bags.  Better kicking, I think.

Receiving blankets - these have so many uses, including emergency diaper, that
I can't begin to list them.  You'll think of more.  We bought 4 and friends
loaned us 10 more.  However, she's 4 months old and we rarely use them anymore.

Monitor - only because we had a two floor house.  We rarely use it anymore.
We've developed "parent's ears" and can hear her thru multiple closed doors with
the stereo blasting.  (I think she sends psychic waves...)

Bath sponge - baby shaped sponge to put in bathtub.  You lay the baby on it in
a few inches of water.  Costs about $7 at Sears.

Walker - but not until 3-4 months.  You could also use this to feed the
baby, if you don't mind sitting on the floor to do it.


I didn't like:

Onesies - if she trashed more than her diaper, they required a complete
undressing to change her.  Newborns hate having their clothes off and they
trash a lot of diapers.

Clothes with fasteners in the back.  Now, at 4 months, that's ok, because she
can sort of sit up while I fasten them.

>                -< cribs are a recent invention for consumers >-
>
Since when ?  Baby beds go back hundreds of years!

>    i know many families who never used a crib without all the horrible
>    consequences mentioned and who talk of many benefits.

Look at the LaLeche League book "The WOmanly Art ..." and they'll agree
whole heartedly with you ... to the point of having family beds.  But
where the parents get the quiet time to themselves and the time to make
kids without exposing their kids to what they are up to is beyond me!
As usual though ... to each his own -- I prefer the privacy.

>    cribs are
>    expensive and big so it could be a prime candidate for your space
>    saving requirement.

Eurpoean size cribs are definitely more compact ... look at IKEA if there's
one near you (I believe there's one near Boston) ...  BUT cribs don't have
to be expensive.  Ours was (1981 prices) $60 for the crib and $40 for the
foam mattress.  It has now lasted for 3 children, and if it wasn't for
the modified safety requirements, it would do some more!  Sure, it's no
Jenny Lind crib ... but it did the job perfectly adequately.

In another note, re the baby monitor someone talked of running to check on
baby every 5 minutes ...  If I was that nervous about our kids, I'd have
had a nervous breakdown.  I cannot ever remember a situation where we
were checking that often, if we checked hourly, that was a lot, unless
we heard crying ... and we rarely needed a monitor for that!  We used the
monitor to feel more comfortable about going for short walks in the park
across the street (put a radio on softly ... when you can't hear the
radio anymore you're out of range) and we were never more than a minute's
run from the door ...

Stuart

    Someone sent me mail to enquire about IKEA stores ... I made my comment
    about "near Boston" based on stylised map in their Canadian catalogue.
    
    Ha Ha ... I called our Ottawa IKEA and got the following :

	Pittsburgh PA
	Elizabeth NJ
	Baltimore MD
	Long Island NY
	Burbank CA (!)

    Stuart

    A lot of what you can/cannot live with depends on when your baby is
    born.  Mine was born in May and I hardly used socks at all until the
    fall..  I used receiving blankets to lie her on and that sort of thing. 
    I used the snugli only a few times, cause I was too hot when she was in
    it.
    
    Once she turned a couple of months old, I used onsies daily.  But early
    on I found the regular side-snap undershirts easier to use since I
    usually had to change her three times a day due to a soiled diaper.
    
    I second the advice on finding out if your child likes a swing.  Gina
    *loved* hers, and at nearly 11 months still uses it every day.  (She is
    well under the 25 pound limit of our swing and now walks over to it to
    indicate that she wants to get in it.)  Early on we would use it to get
    a peaceful dinner for us.  
    
    If you get a porta-crib, you can always leave it packed up and in the
    car or a closet until you need it for a trip or an evening at a
    friend's house.  Then it doesn't take up too much room.  Our portacrib
    is by Fisher Price and had a basinet-type sling in it.  This was nice
    to use downstairs, but in a garden-style condo that shouldn't be
    necessary.
    
    Here's what I think you can definitely live without:
    
    Baby lotion, oil, powder, etc.  (I got tons of this, and have used the
    lotion a few times, and never anything else.)
    Basinett
    Baby scale
    
    Good luck!
    
    judy

    
    My vote is with the swingers! We had a wind-up with #1 and it was my
    only sanity during the colic.  We were loaned a battery operated one
    with #2 and liked it so well we bought one for upstairs too.  She's
    10.5 months. I have the swing in the bathroom where I can see it from
    the shower.  Its great for outside too, frees hands for gardening and
    washing the car.
    
    Another important item for breastfeeding moms is a breast pump.  The
    hospital gave me mine, it was a Godsend the first few days.
    
    Rochelle

    Nursing pads (disposable or washable) are a definite must; whether you
    intend to nurse or not, you *will* leak!
    
    Agreed on the oils, lotions, powder, etc - you'll get tons of it from
    well-meaning friends & relatives, plus the hospital goody-bag.  The
    only stuff I used, and only when a rash necessitated it, was Desitin.
    
    Baby wipes - your mileage may vary, but I liked the thin kind -
    inexpensive, plus I found them easier to use when wiping sticky poop! 
    You don't feel so bad about using a few of them from an el-cheapo vat
    of 150-count, vs. the they-must-be-made-of-silk-at-this-price types
    that come 40 to a treasure chest.  But a lot of people like the
    cushiony quality of the latter.
    
    One of the best inventions since sliced bread: hooded sweaters that zip
    down the back (especially for a fall baby).  EASY to put on a baby who
    can't sit up by self.
    
    My breast pump wasn't worth the powder to blow it up... I collected
    what was leaking from the "off" breast while Alex nursed.  But she also
    had bottles of formula at daycare, so I didn't need to do any
    stockpiling.
    
    Leslie

    Speaking of breastfeeding, you also need suitable clothing for the
    duration.  By suitable, I mean shirts or sweaters that will allow you
    to breastfeed without getting undressed, and clothing of the same size
    you wore during the first trimester.  Many women don't lose weight
    easily while they are nursing.  (Some do.)  I borrowed my husband's
    sweatsuits to wear at home.  My now-tight sweatshirts were very
    uncomfortable.  Also nursing bras; JC Penney catalog has a good
    selection.  Even if you don't leak, the thin washable pads keep your
    clothes from chafing.  Oh, and bring large-ish cotton panties to wear
    home from the hospital, ones that come up to your waist.  You won't
    want to wear anything tight.   You'll probably also want an easy-care
    hair style because for several months there won't be time to fuss with
    styling.  
    
    The baby will be fine in most any clothing you scrounge up, but after
    going through pregnancy, birth and nursing, you'll want comfort and
    maybe something new and attractive.
    
    Laura

    I know what you mean about living in a small place.  We live in a one
    bedroom apartment.  Poor Stephen (who was born last Sept.) has his crib
    in the dining area.
    
    I found that the things he uses/used the most are:
    
    Onesies (great in the winter as underwear, great in the summer as all
    he wears)
    Crib blankets not receiving blankets, they are outgrown too fast.
    socks, sweat suits, snowsuit, (don't buy sweater outfits they get the
    baby too hot), cloth diapers (good for protecting yourself against baby
    spit), oversleeper, baby seat, swing (baby loved it), crib sheets,
    bumper pads, baby bath (I would put the tub on the counter in the
    bathroom and Stephen loved to watch himslef  in the mirror)
    
    Things never used:
    
    monitor
    cradle (outgrew REAL fast)
    playpen (no room and too heavy to drag up and down the stairs)
    
    Try to find a resale shop for things you would like to have, but know
    you won't need for too long.
    
    Kathy  

    We scrunched into the bottom of our house (4 rooms, incl kitchen and
    living room) for the first 4 years, so I know what you mean by 'No
    Room'!
    
    Things to not even consider;
    
    Playpen (BIG toy box!)
    Snugli (scrunched my kids....)
    Onesies (if top OR bottom gets messy, you need to undress everything,
    		and winter babies HATE this!)
    Cradle (What's the point? Use the crib)
    Changing Table (Use the bed/kitchen table (with a towel on it) - we
    		didn't have one for our first and didn't mind at all!)
    Johnny Jumper (sort of strangled them, and was ALWAYS in the way)
    Shoes/boots (Until they're walking)
    Toys/stuffed animals
    Bottle sterilizer - We washed 'em w/ a bottle washer, and occassionally
      a spin through the dishwasher.  Boil nipples when I felt INCREDIBLY
      guilty - it's all hype - we did none of that 'boiling' stuff for Jason 
      and he's fine (though he does like to eat dirt (-;)
    Baby oil, q-tips, powder
    Disposable bottles - Take one of those plastic liners, fill it w/
      water, let it sit for about 1/2 hour, and then taste the water. 
      YUMMY  I LOVE to drink plastic!   Yech!!
    
    MUST Have's;
    
    Baby-seat for IN the house.  (The baby's portable now...!)
    Car seat (One that will hold a toddler too- don't spend your money
    		twice)
    Baby Swing (It's the only reason the boys are still alive (-: )
    Stroller (They get HEAVY, especially wandering the malls....)
    Baby monitor (If a spring baby and you want to be doing yard work or a
    		winter baby and you're out shoveling, it's nice to not have
    		to keep running in to check - and you WILL be that nervous!)
    Crib-size blankets
    Walker which you also use as a high-chair
    Get a regular (twin size) sheet and cut it in 4, hem and you have 4
     unfitted crib sheets.  Worked out MUCH better than struggling to get
     the pre-made ones to fit!!  And if you're handy, you can make curtains
     from the sheets to match!  Or a quilt - or lots of things.
    
    Sleepers
    T-shirts
    Gowns w/ the ties on the bottom (Though Toddler-T-shirts sounds like a
    		MUCH better idea!)
    Sox or feet things.
    Baking Soda baby-powder for the SUMMER to keep dry
    Desitin
    Diaper-wipes with NO Alcohol (I like the thin kind better)
    A hat
    One-piece winter 'coat'
    Cloth diapers (to pick up spit up and every other thing.  We bought
      DOZENS and now, years later, my husband uses them to wash the cars...)
    Pacifier/Bottles/Bottle-Brush/Nipples - Don't buy a TON of anything
      yet.  Your baby may prefer a particular nipple to some other brand. 
      Buy a few now and decide what the baby REALLY likes later, THEN stock
      up!
    If you use cloth diapers, a diaper pail.  We never bothered w/ the "One
      pail to soak, one pail to rinse, one more pail just in case..." stuff.
      Just in the washer, bleach 'em out every few weeks (rinse, rinse,
      rinse!), and no problems.  A plastic trash barrel w/ a cover from a
      plastic bowl works perfect (ask me how I know...)
    
    Okay/maybe's
    o Baby bathtub - we used it for a little while when the baby was VERY
      small, and then just switched to the kitchen sink.
    o Baby sponge - to help the baby from slipping around in the sink/tub. 
      A cloth diaper on the bottom works also.
    o Baby bath/baby shampoo.  Nice to have so it doesn't sting the baby,
      but not necessary
    o Quilts/sleeping bags.  Sometimes they get too hot - many thinner
      blankets let you layer for the different seasons.
    o Small (4oz) baby bottles.  Half-fill the big ones saves lots of
      cabinet space, and after a few mos. you'll never use the small ones 
      again.  Maybe buy a COUPLE.  I preferred the glass bottles cuz
      they're easier to clean and don't pick up odors, but they're so HEAVY
      that baby can't hold them very well.  
    o High Chair.  I swore by ours, but you could do without.  The nicest
      time is when the baby's in the "I want to throw food EVERYWHERE
      stage - you can control the area that you don't mind having food
      all over.  
    
    Please be ***VERY**** careful about putting baby in an adult bed.  My
    nephew was put to rest in his parent's bed and got rolled up in the
    sheets and suffocated when he was 9 mos old.  If you want baby in your
    room, put the baby in the baby seat FIRST and then on the bed!!  Better
    yet, get baby their own crib, so they can start to learn the difference
    between YOUR space and THEIR space.  VERY Important!
    
    
    And, of course, EVERY baby is different.  There are VERY few things
    you'll need when your baby first comes home.  I'd suggest buying only
    the crib, some clothes, diapers and bottle-stuff ahead of time.  The
    walker and swing won't be used for a few months, or perhaps not at all. 
    The biggest thing with the clothes is what YOU like to dress/undress
    that wriggly little kid in - how good you are at grabbing an arm/leg,
    stuffing it into a shirt/pants, and going for 3 more.  My best advice
    for the clothes is to get '1 of everything' and then buy more AFTER the
    baby, depending on what you like.  You'll know!!
    
    GOOD LUCK!!!

    Try a sassy seat type chair vs a regular high chair.  Some are molded
    plastic but I've also seen one that has a cloth seat and folds flat. 
    THe  baby can eat at whatever table you're at, it's mobile for visiting
    and you don't have this THING sitting there all the time.  

    re .23 - well, not *every* table you're at.  Dangerous to use on
    pedestal tables or glass tables.
    
    L.W.

    More on sassy seats - they don't work on tables that have a long 
    "skirt" underneath - the seat may fit on the table, but there's 
    nowhere for the baby's legs to go.
    
    Lucy

    I really can't understand how anyone can say that onsies are
    a pain in the neck to change.  I would never be without them.  So what
    if you have to change everything if they get soiled?  Whenever my son
    went through a diaper and it was bad enough to have to change his
    onesie, if he didn't have the onesie on, I'd probably have to change
    all of his clothes anyway (it usually went up his back!). :-)  I go
    for getting at least a couple to try them out, and if you don't
    like them, then don't use them.  Besides, it's alot easier than
    constantly trying to tuck their shirts back into their pants and also, 
    their backs are always covered when they have a onesie on.
    
    Lori B.

    1. Borrow as much as possible. (especially swings, people don't want to
       store and will be happy to loan out.)
    2. Wait until after your shower.  (I got tons of onsies, afghans and
       sweater sets, crib sheets/blankets.  Even a monitor!  Let other people
       spend the money....they will be angry if you go shopping before the
       shower and get something they bought you.)
    3. When you have to buy, buy used. (Make sure current safety stands
       apply) Infant car seats can be rented from the hospital fairly
       inexpensively.
    
    
    Definately try not to buy anything new that you can get from someone
    else or get used tho.  You'll need to money for other more important
    things!
    
    
    Ln

    beware of leaving a baby/infant on a waterbed... that warning may be in
    here already.. more than one baby has died.. 

re. 28

Maybe I'm being a little dense but here goes.... 

Why is a waterbed so dangerous for a baby/infant?  Is it more so than a regular
bed.  I'm asking because I have a waterbed and am expecting my first in August.

    
    re .29
    
    Because waterbeds conforms to the body shape. If the baby is on the 
    tummy, she/he can suffocate as the bed "wraps" around the face.
    
    
    Eva.

    
    ps. .30
    
    If the waterbed  has a frame (not softsided), the baby can
    get trapped between the mattress and the frame.
    
    
    Eva

    re .30
    
    We had a waterbed ...  that wasn't an issue, but predominantly because
    we used a mattress pad under the sheet.
    
    re .31
    
    That is the MAJOR problem.

    	There have been notes in here about what clothing is necessary for
    babies and what furniture and equipment is necessary for babies. But
    now I need to tap the resources of this file and ask:

    	What bitty items are needed for babies?

    	By bitty items I mean, thermometer, nail clippers, medicine spoons,
    wash clothes,...

    	Bitty = small, easy to forget but apparently important

    	Other bitty things that they tell us are to buy lots of Q-tips to
    clean the cord, wouldn't cotton balls work better? And do we really
    need to wash everything in Dreft?

    	We saw some baby emery boards in the store the other day, do you
    need those?

    	What are some of the bitty items that you have had to use for your
    babies?


    				Wendy

    
    Just a comment on the Q-Tips: I started out cleaning Anna's cord with
    cotton balls with alcohol on them. When my sister came to visit when
    Anna was 5 days old she suggested the Q-Tips. I found they work better.
    As you tip the cord out of the way you can get under and around the
    dried part of the cord better with a Q-Tip.
    
    As for other bitty items: the baby nail scissors are a necessity, but
    I have yet to use the little emery boards and Anna is almost 3 1/2
    months old. 
    
    Knock on wood I have yet to use the medicine dropper or the
    thermometer or the nasal aspirator.
    
    Get plenty of washclothes. I go through at least one a day what with
    baths and just washing her face. Anna had a blocked tear duct so I was
    always having to wash her face as she would rub the goopy stuff from
    her eye onto her check and forehead.
    
    Little baby socks!! Even when it's warm enough for a onsie, Anna's feet
    would feel cool unless it was sweltering hot out. 
    
    Can't think of anything else off the top of my head. If I do I'll add
    more.
    
    Patty

    A lot of these kind of things of you don't think of unless you see
    them.  Then you say "oh yeah, we could use that (and that, and that)". 
    What I did for the first few months after Marc was born was to cruise
    the aisles of Toys R Us looking for things I hadn't thought of yet. 
    (Toys R Us has _everything_ :-)).  They usually have one aisle with
    all those "toiletries"-type things.  Just go and look!  The kind of
    stuff I use all the time is:
    
    - baby shampoo
    - baby soap (squeeze bottle is best for one-hand use)
    - nail clippers (never used emery boards)
    - rectal thermometer
    - cold medication (Triaminic, etc.)
    - Q-tips
    - baby powder
    - Caldesene (sp?) powder for diaper rashes
    - eyedropper for medicine (forget the baby spoons)
    - baby hairbrush/comb

    
    I never use the baby nail clippers or emery boards. I found the baby
    nail scissors to work better for me. Less chance of pinching the
    fingers. Also, brush and comb (for those who have enough hair) I used
    the brush from day one. Besides baby powder, Desitin, great for diaper
    rash.  
    
    That's all I have, seems the last note coverd it all.
    
    Sandy

    I have used the emery board but not for major filing just when she got
    a little older and had sharp edges on her nails that would scratch us. 
    I only used them after cutting the nails or when I didn't have time or
    she was too wiggly to cut to get those sharp edges.
    
    I agree with "forget about the medicine spoons"  the dropper works much
    better.  
    
    Petroleum jelly is great for the first little while.
    
    I used a combination of Q-tips and cotton balls.  Sometimes I'd wet the
    cotton ball and squeeze the liquid from the ball onto the cord to get
    it wet but I'd use the wet Q-tips to clean around the cord.
    
    I don't care for the nail sissors they sell for baby's. The
    nail clippers are ok when they are older, but the sissors are too bulky 
    and not tight enough.  I used a pair of adult high quality manicure 
    (cuticle size) sissors.  I accidently got some skin with the clippers 
    once when she was tiny, (made me cry too) and from then on until she was 
    about a year old it was the sissors for me. 
    
    I've gone through lots of Tempra. I bought the small bottle size once
    with the dropper and from then on I keep refilling the bottle from the
    large size container.  I also got another dropper bottle from the
    doctors at the time of her first shots and keep that in her diaper bag.
    Emily seems to prefer the taste of the grape Tempra to the orange
    Tylenol and I think it is cheaper.  
    
    Don't buy too many pacifiers or any one kind of nipple until you find
    out what kind your baby likes if any.  I have about 6 different kinds
    of pacifiers we tried and several different types of nipples and she
    never took a pacifier and only likes Platex nipples but didn't even
    take to those until she was several months old.  
    
    We never used the shoes we bought (except for Sunday's and pictures)
    until she started walking at 9 months and then only for outside.  So,
    she didn't need size 0, 1, 2 shoes except for show.  You can probably
    get hand-me-downs from friends of those sizes or use booties.  
    
    I didn't need to buy baby lotion or powder in large sizes.  One bottle
    of the sample size was all I needed.  I'm waiting for #2 now and have
    tons of supplies of Desinex, Powder, Lotion, etc. left over from #1.  
    
    You never know what you're child will like.  I hardly ever used a
    snugly or a baby carrier because Emily wanted to see everything. 
    Marcelle
    
    

    I think the previous notes have captured my list very nicely.
    The major things that I forgot, and was SO glad, in hindsight,
    that I got as gifts: soft hairbrush, lots of cotton socks (the 
    other stretchy ones just slipped off), and cotton hat. I used
    all these almost immediately.  
    
    Things that my own experimentation added to the list: 
    
    	- several waterproof cloths 
    
    	   I used these the first few months to line her carseat, 
    	   swing, under her diaper area and/or drool area in the crib (on 
    	   top of the sheet) etc. This saved lots of washing as well as 
    	   keeping nightime cribsheet changes to a minimum. Just change the 
    	   cloth as necessary. Your mileage may vary here. I am using cloth 
    	   diapers and wraps. In the first few weeks, they'll sleep through 
    	   just about anything even if the plumbing is going fulltime!
    
    	-  Medicine dropper
    
    	   I used this to give her a little water (1/4 tsp.) to wash down 
    	   her vitamins (She didn't like the taste or the texture...the syrup 
    	   was kind of thick). So, even though most liquid medicines come
    	   with droppers, I found it was worth it to have one of my own.
    
    
    	Other items that I would consider stocking up on now are (these are
        more for you and your spouse, but they might help):
    
    	- A scrap book/folder (I saved all the cards we got)
    	- photo album
    	- Film
    	- mail-order envelopes for photo finishing labs
    	- thank you notes
    	- stamps
    	- batteries for monitors, swings, etc.
        - several weeks of dinners in the freezer (I didn't do this but
    	  really wished I had)                         
    
    	These will help you stay organized in the 1st few hectic weeks and
        it cuts down on errands.
    
    	  

    And maybe:
    	- burp/spit up cloths
    	- ipecac -- you'll need it eventually
    	- as mentioned before, baby acetomeniphen (My sister the nurse
    		yelled at me for not having this)
        - I bought two digital thermometers from Playschool (oral and
    		rectal). I have yet to use the rectal one. 
    

    I see no use for nail clippers at all - for anyone of any age - a good
    pair of (regular "adult" size) manicure scissors allows a lot more
    precision.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - cut the baby's
    nails when the baby is *asleep*!
    
    Also, yes you do need *some* baby sox, but babies' feet are normally a
    little chilly to the touch (ask your pedi); you don't need to try to 
    warm them up to your own palm temperature.
    
    Leslie

    
    If your baby takes a pacifier, one of those Paci-clips came in real
    handy when they're in the car seat, stroller, etc.  Saved that pacifier
    from alot of falls to the ground.
    
    I agree with the nail scissors instead of clippers - that was our
    pedi's recommendation.
    
    small bibs - alot easier to change after spit-ups than an entire
    outfit!
    
    Make sure to get cornstarch powder and NOT regular baby powder (which
    can accumulate in their lungs.)
    
    My pedi recommended glycerin suppositories, baby tylenol, mylicon
    drops, vaseline (will need if temperature taken rectally), and
    a thermometer for the medicine cabinet.  I've used all of them at 
    least once (after consulting with physician)
    
    cloth diapers for cleaning up spit-ups, etc.
    
    night-light bright enough to see the baby in the dark
    
    my pedi recommended bathing with anti-bacterial soap the first month
    (we used liquid dial for the first 3 mos because my husband had bought
    such a large supply ;-)
    
    super-absorbant sanitary napkins for yourself
    
    stamps and thank you notes/birth announcements
    
    I'll let you know if I think of anything else.
    
    Bev
    
    

    Cornstarch baby powder
    Desitin
    small pacifiers (Mini-mam is good) if you think the baby may be smallish
    plastic coated baby spoons for feeding
    baby bath and baby shampoo 
    	For this I suggest getting trial-size bottles with flip caps and 
    	refilling them from larger ones.  MUCH easier to handle w/ one hand 
    	plus you can float them in the bath water and warm them up.
    
    toy-holder/paci-clips
    BABY BOOTIES!!!!!!!!!!!  MILLIONS OF THEM!!!!!!! (-: (-:  We must've
    had at least a dozen pair and could never keep them clean enough!! 
    Also, may I suggest using the same color (or 2 colors) so there's less
    to 'match'.
    
    The rest of the stuff we used 'adult things'.  No big difference
    between adult face clothes/towels and baby's.
    
    We always have done our laundry in Surf.  For everyone.  Never bothered
    anyone.
    
    Good Luck!!  It's mostly hype, so if you THINK you need something,
    perhaps suggest it as a shower gift or get a 'small one'.  I do wish I
    had gotten a diaper-wipe warmer ...
    
    Patty

    My contribution to the "small" subject...
    
    As a variation on the Qtips with alcohol I bought (actually the
    hospital gave me) a box of alcohol wipes, the ones like the doctors use
    before giving an injection, to clean the cord.  They can be purchased
    in most drugstores, usually in the pharmacy area.  I just like the
    idea, kind of like a mini washcloth.
    
    For all those little items I bought a "little" plastic laundry basket. 
    You know the ones sold in the dime stores that are shaped like a
    miniature bucket or basket, perhaps 8" x 10" x 3" deep.  This was great
    for holding the powder, lotion, thermometer, I also obtained from my
    pharmacy a 3 and 5cc syringe, without needle of course, for dispensing
    liquid medicine.  (5cc's = one teaspoon, FYI). I felt more comfortable
    knowing I had measured the medicine accurately.  The other ones seemed
    to allow some medicine to stick to the bottom or sides.  A 10cc syringe
    is also sold in the drugstore, usually on the rack with pill keepers
    and such.  I also found, made by First Years, a tiny bottle with a
    nipple on it for giving medicine.  I might have held a couple
    teaspoons.
    
    I covered his changing table with a terry cover with elastic covers,
    but I also kept this covered with a plastic backed quilted lap pad. 
    Many times I would have a mess following a diaper change, but only had
    to wash the pad.  Couldn't have enough of these.  I also got a few
    sample size bottles of Keri lotion to add to the bath water.  This came
    from a pediatric nurse during one of his many hospital stays.
    
    Lyn

>I do wish I had gotten a diaper-wipe warmer ...

We did, and use it to hold a container of warm water since we use 
washcloths instead of baby wipes.  After almost 19 months, it's still going 
strong.  A very good gift.

Re thermometers -- We've never owned a rectal thermometer.  Our pedi takes 
babies' temperature under the arm, and we followed suit.  Certainly more 
pleasant for the baby, and lots less hassle for Mom and/or Dad.  It may not 
be as accurate, but pinpoint accuracy isn't really necessary.

FWIW,
Steve

	We always take the temp under the arm too.

	Now I'm glad we do.  You see, our 2 year old daughter Katie is apparently
a budding doctor.  She has a toy doctor kit with a thermometer in it.  She is 
forever sticking it or a pen or something of similar shape under my arm and 
saying "you not feel good?  Take a tempachur?"  

	I shudder to think what she'd be trying to do if we had taken her temp
rectally.... :-)


Tracey

    A diaper wipe warmer????????
    
    --bonnie

    -few
    
    
    and to think we kept the plastic box on the shelf atop the radiator.
    
    -sandy
    

    Don't forget to have some pedialyte and syrup of ipecac on hand too. 
    We waited until the first major diarhea session and were on vacation. 
    Had to go to 4 stores before I found some Pedi.  Now I take a bottle or
    two with me unless I know I will be near a large supermarket.  I
    thought all pharmacies would carry it and when I did find it in the
    small town were were in, I had to buy a case of bottles (at $17).  By
    that time I did not care
    
    Keep the ipecac in case.  Even with tiny ones you never know and it
    last a long time.  That way if an emergency occurs and your are told to
    use it, you do not have to go and look for some.
    
    Michelle

    
re -1
    >    Don't forget to have some pedialyte and syrup of ipecac on hand too. 
                                   ^^^^^^^^^
    	I'm assuming that this is similar to Dioralyte (sp?) sold in the UK
    for sickness and diarrhoea, and at a horrible price. It consists of
    salt, potassium chloride (low sodium salt substitute), glucose and
    sodium bicarbonate. Put another way, the packaging costs more than the
    contents! I asked my GP if he could shed any light on this. It turns
    out that for years doctors would recommend a pinch each of salt and
    sugar in a pint of water. It was known that this enabled the body to
    absorb the water much quicker, but noone knew why. Eventualy the
    mechanism was worked out and the drugs manufacturers leaped on the band
    wagon!
    	Sorry for the diversion, it just annoys me how some products are
    sold/marketed.
    
    
    		Ian G.

    My third kid is rapidly approaching two, and I've never used
    Pedialyte or any other similar product. 
    
    --bonnie

    Well, my oldest had a real bad case of the flu when he was nine months
    old.  He was down to drinking Pedialyte from an eye dropper every ten
    minutes.  It was a life saver for me, but as my mom used - unjelled
    jello also works well in a pinch.
    
    -sandy
    

    Bonnie, how did you ever survive almost TWO full years and not need
    pedialyte????  Either you've got a home remedy you should share with
    us, or you've got an exceptionally healthy child who has never had
    vomiting or intestinal bugs....please share!
    
    I used to buy Pedialyte in 8 ounce nursing type bottles, the same thing
    the hospital uses at Lincoln Discount Drug in Westboro.  It seemed a
    little costly, but about the second or third time you run out and pay
    convienience store prices for the stuff, and end up throwing half of it
    away, since kids recover so quickly, it was cheaper in the long run. I
    think there were 6 or 8 bottles per pack.  
    Although I must admit I did have a charmed life, since with each 
    hospitalization I was able to take a pack or two home.  The nursing staff 
    would keep some in his room, and the hospital rules say that if something 
    goes into a patient's room it's considered "contaminated" and can't be put
    back into their supply closet, so either I'd take it home or it would be 
    disposed of. 

    Now that he's older I routinely keep a bottle of Gaterade on the shelf
    for those "just in case" situations, I have a pet peeve about paying
    "convienience store prices", when a little planning ahead could save me
    much money!
    
    Lyn

    So far, *I* think the electrolyte biz is a license to print money...
    
    Leslie

My kids are 10 and 13 and I've never had occassion to use any such thing.

I've always used nail clippers except when the kids were babies.  My baby book
suggested biting their nails off.  I am not coordinated enough to use scissors
in my left hand.

ccb

    re: Pedialyte
    
    Not almost two years, almost 18 years -- the oldest is 17.  
    
    For diarrhea I use water.  Plain old water.  None of the kids has
    ever had a problem with loss of salts etc.  For stomach flu,
    abstinence followed by water and saltines, or unjelled jello.  
    
    None of my pediatricians has ever suggested anything else, either. 
    
    --bonnie

My Pedi recommended Pedialite ... except Juli would have NOTHING to do with it!
She hated it!  (Not sure why?)

Pedi then recommended Gatorade (seemed sweet to me!) or very flat gingerale
or coke.  Well, Juli prefers the flat gingerale (which we always have on hand
anyways).

With Pedialite, you have to use it within a very short amount of time ...
yes!, this stuff spoils once opened!  Not to mention it's not cheap, either!

After 24 hours of gingerale, we added unsalted saltines, jar of baby rice
cereal, smashed banana, liquid foods (broth, etc.), unbuttered toast
and then worked upwards to normal food again.

    Since my little one is almost a year and we had a bad bout of diarrhea
    in May I had not heard of any other cheap remedies.  Thanks for the
    info and I will keekp those in mind.  So far pedialite has worked and
    at the time, on vacation, the expense seemed minimal compared with him
    pooping all over the place and looking miserable.  If gingerale or
    gatorade can work too that is great.  Will give it a try should I have
    to.
    
    Michelle
    

    I don't know what Pedialyte has for a sweetener, but I do know that my
    Dr. cautioned against using drinks that had a lot of sugar.  They said
    pedialyte, maybe gatorade, and that's IT.  Anything else had so much
    sugar and that amount of sugar tended to irritate the intestines, and
    also provided a better home for the virus ... might want to check into
    it!  
    
    Patty

    OK lable readers, I can't remember what, if any kind of sugar is in
    Pedialyte.  I know for sure there is sugar in Gaterade. My educated
    guess is some kind of glucose.
    
    You want sugar, as it relates to cures for stomach upsets, try reading
    EMETROL, that stuff is literally like syrup it's got so much sugar in
    it!  Unfortunately that the only thing my OB would allow me to take for
    morning sickness, and it was so sweet it made me sicker!!
    
    Emetrol is supposed to be a good cure for children's stomach upsets,
    but for me it's like the cure is worse than the disease!
    
    Lyn