Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Will you be going back full-time?  When I had my second (last year) I
    came back part-time (3 days) and it's been good.  I love my "two days
    off"!  The three days on is hard, but when you know that Wednesday is
    the last day it does make it easier.  I did find that I practically
    forced my daughter (now 3) to become much more self-sufficient, i.e.,
    dress herself.  The other thing that made all of this "easier" is I
    haven't really had a job since October.  My job phased out, so I
    haven't had the pressures of being in at exactly 8:15 and possibly
    being here until 6:00 or so.  The pressure I had was looking for a
    new job and "mental" pressure from my manager.   Anyway, I have found 
    a new job and it's full-time and it's a longer commute, but it a great
    job.  So I know how you feel.  I'm scared, nervous and feeling very guilty.
    
    The only advice I can offer is, try not to worry about "tommorrow". 
    Things always do work out for the best.  I'm trying to live by this
    philosopy too, but I know it's hard.
    
    BTW, two kids are great - double the fun!!!
    
    Good luck.                                             
    Joyce

    I wonder the same thing some days, with my second due in early August.
    My guess is that you just adjust - remember wondering how you would get
    out the door with one to get ready in the mornings? I do, and we just
    juggled for a while til we found a comfortable pattern. Sounds like
    you're planning ahead well, doing as much as you can in the evening
    etc.
    
    RE laundry - my husband does it all. Usually a load a day, tossed in
    after we're done with morning showers, and then put in the dryer before
    we head out to work. Maybe your husband could put run the wash the
    night before at bedtime, and toss it in the dryer before he heads to
    work in the a.m.
    
    best of luck,
    

Kate,

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!   It requires some additional creativity, but it
can be done.  Some thoughts are:

o it was VERY stressful for me at first.  No. 1 was so jealous that I didn't
think I would ever survive.  This lasted only a few weeks, and now she ADORES -
and I mean *ADORES* - her baby sister.  She will do anything to help - go get
diapers, wipe her sisters behind, clean up spitup, retrieve anything that
dropped, etc.....    What I am saying here is to reserve judgement for a few
weeks, and let things settle in with your older child.

o If there is any financial way to swing it, GET A MAID!!!!  I have always had
someone to clean my house, but after #2 came along, I found a different girl
who also does the laundry and ironing.  She cost a bit more, but now my hubby
doesn't send everything to the cleaners for starching, so it evens out.

o I changed my schedule and started taking my shower at night.  I usually take
it with both girls, and get all showers over at once (we call it "girls shower
hour"), but sometimes I wait until they go to bed, and enjoy a shower by myself.

o If #1 still goes to daycare/sitter when you have the baby, spend some special
time with the baby while s/he's gone, and relax while the baby sleeps.  Then
you can spend some special time with #1 in the evenings.  I found that my first
doesn't really want INDIVIDUAL time, just SPECIAL time.  She doesn't mind at
all if I hold the baby on my lap and read to her, or start a game that somehow
involves the baby.  Sometimes she will INSIST that her sister is included.  And
then other times she say "Daddy hold bebe" meaning she wants me by herself.

Send mail or call if you want to talk more.  Good luck, it's wonderful!

Kristen

    My two are 5 years apart which means that #1 was already doing a lot
    for himself by the time #2 came along.  My husband and I share all
    the responsibilities of the children (sometimes he shares more than I
    do!!).  I do the morning stuff - lunches, dressing, breakfast, and he
    does the evening - PJ's for the little one, story etc.  We share
    house stuff - I do cooking and laundry and some cleaning, he does
    rest of cleaning, outdoor stuff etc.  We share transportation of
    kids to various places - school, daycare, camp, activities.
    
    My youngest just turned 4 so the really tough baby times are behind
    us.  It helps to have excellent day care and to pull through as
    a family - do what needs to be done!

    Boy, does this note bring up the anxiety that I try (almost daily) to
    squelch in my life!  I, too, am expecting what seems like #2 in July. 
    I say "seems like" because it's really #4 ... #1 is 18 and #2 will be
    17 this month.  When I had the first two (17 months apart) I thought I
    was doing a wonderful thing -- staying home with them.  In retrospect, a
    lot of valuable moments were wasted because I found myself saying
    "we'll do that after this load of laundry", or "we'll do that later
    on".  In too many cases, however, later never came.  Now I live in
    realtime, and with my 2.9-year-old, I do the laundry later, and the
    dishes later.  My husband and I are thrilled that another is coming;
    both for our little boy as well as the rest of the family.  It just
    seems that I have hardly a moment now -- how will I do it all???!!!
    
    Thanks, noters, for expressing in your words exactly what I'm thinking. 
    I keep remembering that our senses of humor have gotten us through
    everything so far, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the future.
    
    Dale

Some of what we don you won't be able to since I'm the one who leaves
the house early (I work 6 am - 2:30), but here's how it goes at our
house:  (actually, it's a little modified right now as I'm working
7-11 and taking 1/2 day vacations.  It's helping me break in gradually.
I work at the Customer Support Center in Colorado Springs)

  I get up at 4:40, shower and dress.  I then fix lunch for my husband
and pack breakfest stuff, too.  If there is laundry to be done I might
throw a load in.  The baby usually eats around 5 am or so, so I feed
her.

  The 3.5 year old might actually get up before I leave, so I get
her some breakfast.  Sometimes I ask her what she would like to wear
and I  bring it downstairs for her while she's eating/watching
a video or cartoons.  She can dress herself with no problem, and
many times has her outfit in hand when she comes downstairs (she has
worn some "unique" combinations of clothing, but what the heck...).

  I also make coffee in the morning, enough for hubby's thermal mug.
I'm out of the house about 5:45 (yes, in Colorado Springs 15 minutes
is enough to get to work!!).

  Hubby gets up around 6:30-6:45, showers and dresses.  He gets the 
baby up pops both kids in the car and takes them to daycare.  They
are at separate places right now as the Children's World doesn't take
infants.

  I pick both kids up, getting the older one first as she likes to
"help" get the baby.  I run errands on the way or before.  Because
I get home early, I have time to make a dinner for us.  Also, since
Rachel is such an easy baby I don't have to amuse her a lot.  The
older one usually has a snack and might watch another video or might
assist with dinner or just play.

  We have hired a housekeeper.  She changes the linens, too.
I'm more relaxed about how the  house looks.  So what if the bed 
isn't made, who's here to see it and what does it really say about 
you if it's not made?  I don't always fold the laundry when it comes 
out of the dryer, the next day it'll still be there.

  Some other ideas:  have your older one pick out an outfit the
night before - maybe two - they can be fickle.  Also, plan menues
for a month or so in advance, writing your grocery list as you 
go.  That way you won't have so many last minute shopping trips
for forgotten items.  How about home-delivery of milk?  (we don't
drink enough to make it worthwhile).  Maybe do massive cooking
once a month or so and freeze extra meals (I've never done this
but might try).  Pick up/clean one room a day so you're not always
spending weekends doing so.  Or, if your close enough to work,
go home for lunch one day a week and run the vacume (your or spouse!)
Grocery shop at odd hours like very early or late depending on 
when the shelves are stocked.  All the stores here are 24 hour ones.
That way you'll spend less time in line and less time fighting the
crowds.  If possible, get rid of all those 100% cotton and linen
clothes that need to be ironed for hours.  Try to stay away from
"dry clean only" things too as it's just more time spend going to
the cleaners (more $$ too).

Whew, hope some of this is useful.  Don't panic!

Liz

    It seems a lot worse than it really is.  I have four, and work a full
    time job.  You'll just be busier than your are now (you probably think
    you're pretty busy now but you aren't!)
    
    Learn to take advantage of "snippets" of time.  A snippet to throw
    laundry in, a snippet to fold some, a snippet to empty the dishwasher,
    a snippet to fill it.  
    
    Relax your standards a bit.  The house doesn't have to be spic and
    span, the toys don't need to be picked up every night.  The kids don't
    have to be bathed everynight, you can eat McDonalds some nights.
    
    Use your lunch hours to do errands, evenings to grocery shop.  Get your
    older child to help -- teaches them responsibility.  Do complete
    actions -- don't move the milk from the table to the kithcen counter --
    take it all the way to the refrigerator!  I keep a basket on the bottom
    step of the stairs of our two level house.  That basket collects
    everything that needs to go upstairs -- dirty clothes, kithcen linens,
    toys, etc.  End of day it all goes up.  Next morning I fill it with
    everthing upstairs that needs to go downstairs -- dirty glasses,
    bottles, soda cans, or with clean linens for the kitchen (laundry is on
    the second floor) and down it all goes. 
    
    Just think in terms of what is the most efficient way to do this
    action?  Then make a habit of doing it that way.
    

    There's definitely some good pointers in here ... and hopefully I can
    add a few.  I have a 3 year old and almost 6 year old - it does get
    progressively easier (but I will argue that 2 is about 5 times the work
    of 1 child).
    
    My husband is up and gone in the morning too early to help out, so it's
    just me.  I get up ~2 hours before we need to leave, the kids are
    usually up by then or shortly thereafter.  We change their clothes the
    night before, into sweatsuits usually, so they're all set to go in the
    morning - no fighting about what to wear, no "HURRY UP and get
    DRESSED!", just go the bathroom, eat, brush your teeth and get your
    stuff ready.  Also, baths are in the evening, so this saves on washing
    pajamas.  I TRY to work it so that they're eating breakfast while
    I'm in the shower - just because they tend to fight less that way. 
    Breakfast is virtually whatever they want to eat - we gave up fighting
    with them to eat 'breakfast food', since it doesn't really matter. 
    It's not uncommon for me to be cooking up some fish sticks or macaroni
    and cheese at 7am.  
    They get about 20 mins notice to "Get their stuff ready" - anything
    that they want to bring to the babysitters', and they dump it in a pile
    on the kitchen floor.  If it's not there, it doesn't come.  Didn't take
    long for them to figure that out.  The rest of their time is spent
    either turning their minds to vegetables in front of the TV or
    (THANKFULLY!) now that it's getting warmer, they like to get outside
    and ride their bikes for a little while (watch out for MUD!).
    
    As for the rest of the house .... make an appt if you want to visit! 
    We have definitely relaxed on the cleanliness standard.  IF it's not
    too late, try to prevent food from anyplace except the kitchen, and
    definitely keep it on the same floor as the kitchen.
    The boys are basically responsible for the toy room.  If they don't
    keep it _sort of_ picked up, they may not be allowed to play in there
    for a while (week or so).  They're their toys, they're old enough to
    clean up after themselves.
    
    A lot of times on the w/end I'll cook up dinners that can be eaten
    throughout the week.  Grill up a bunch of chicken, make a big pan of
    Shepard's Pie, make a pot of chili, or anything else that re-heats
    well.  We hardly ever cook during the week - there isn't time.
    My husband does almost all the laundry, and we usually live out of the
    laundry basket instead of folding and putting it away only to take it
    out again.
    
    REMEMBER THIS:  Make a POINT to do the non-critical things (play w/ the
    kids, go to a show, take a trip to the library etc), because you'll
    always find time to squeeze in the things you HAVE to do (laundry,
    shopping, cleaning etc).
    
    The best way that we were able to establish some type of rhthym (sp?)
    was to take a good hard look at each action that caused stress or took
    'too much' time, and try to find another way to do it - if it NEEDED to
    be done at all.
    
    HAVE FUN!!!

    Not sure how much more I can add to the already great suggestions
    mentioned but here goes:
    
    I get four kids ready each morning by myself since my husband is out by
    5:00am.  We get up about 6:30 am. I nurse and dress the baby. The kids
    are either up playing or need to be woken at about 7:00am. They all
    dress themselves in the clothes they picked out the night before, or
    some other combination if they don't like what they picked out last
    night.  Then I get myself dressed and try to make the 4 year old move a 
    little bit faster.
    
    By 7:20 the older two (8 and 6 years old) are downstairs making their
    own bowl of cereal and juice.  They pack the lunches they made the
    night before (After Easter and Halloween I need to closely supervise
    this activity to make sure their is at least one healthy snack for each
    piece of candy.)  We keep carrots cut up in the fridge, and my kids
    love fruit, so they generally pack a healthy lunch all by themselves.
    They eat their breakfast and leave for the school bus by 8:00am.  
    
    I leave with the 4yr old and baby (10 mos) at about 8:05.  The four
    year old and baby may or may not have had breakfast, but the home
    daycare they go to will provide. (The daycare would provide every day,
    however  the four year old likes to sometimes eat with her older
    sisters.
    
    At 3:00pm my husband is home to greet the older two when they get off
    the schoolbus. They drop their books and hop into Dad's car to pick
    up from daycare, drop off for Brownies, piano lesson's or whatever
    errands Dad want's to run.
    
    Dad and kids are usually home by 4 or 5.  The kids play outside until
    dark or 6:00pm. Dad makes supper.  Kids don't have more than 15 mins of
    home work at this point. Mom is in charge of dishes and Laundry( by far 
    the most difficult to manage).  The house is rarely picked up. 
    (Call ahead if your coming please.) 
    
    6:00-7:00 is supper and lunch making time. 7:00-8:00 is family time. 
    8:00pm is bedtime for all four. From 8-10:00 I do laundry, attend
    Parish Council meetings, balance our checkbook, Discovery Toy demos
    (once or twice each month), paperwork, etc.
    
    As mentioned above, the toys are mostly all Discovery Toys, they are
    MOM's toys, which the kids are welcome to play with and then put away
    whenever they want. 
    
    Saturday mornings are for basic cleaning. I run my errands at lunch.
    It is amazing what you can juggle when you have to!

    One other way to cope--- (although I have only been back to work for a 
    week now!!) 
    
    I hired someone to come to my house instead of having to pack up the
    kids and take them out of the house every day.  Mornings have been
    wonderful and I am home with my kids much sooner in the evenings now, too 
    (and with a 3 mo. old, the extra half hour of time with him really
    matters to me). 
    
    Before you say you can't afford it, read the rest of this note---
    The economy is so lousy here in MA that I was able to find someone 
    to come to my house for less than I had planned on spending for both
    kids to go to someone else's home (and for only $37 more per week than
    I was paying for 3 days care for my 4 yr. old --he spent 2 days free
    at his grandmother's).
    
    I placed an ad in two local "flyer-type" weekly newspapers for someone
    to come to my house. I stated in the ad that it was "okay to bring your
    child" since it would make the salary I was offerring MUCH more
    appealing and hoped the child could be a playmate for my 4 yr. old.   
    Ideally, I'd love a "Nanny" who would have only my two kids to care
    for, but I knew I'd probably not be able to afford her. And even if the
    person I hired brought her one child, the number of kids she'd have to
    care for would probably still be a lot less than in a formal daycare
    setting.
    
    I received *47* calls, 25 or so of which were immediate "rejects" but ended
    up scheduling 15 interviews.  I turned away people with more than 1
    child and a child younger than 18 mo. (too much time competition with
    my baby and too young to play with my 4 yr old) and still had a very
    good pool of applicants to choose from.
    
    In all honesty, the best candidate I could not afford (she had no
    children) but I am very happy with the woman I ended up selecting.  I
    actually pay her about $25 more per week than she asked for since I
    felt anything less was really slave wages. 
    
    I found that many of the people I talked to were willing to come to my
    house even tho' they were liscensed daycare providers because they had not 
    been able to find people to come to their houses (due to the economy and 
    there no longer being a shortage of daycare providers in this area.)  or 
    they were not liscensed so couldn't advertise/find children to watch in
    their homes.  Others were attracted to the idea of earning money but
    still being with their child and not having to pay daycare themselves.
    
    I do have to make sure the house is in decent shape each morning (can't
    leave the dinner dishes in the sink anymore!) but my agreement with the
    woman I hired is that the house will be in the same shape when I get
    home at night and it's a nice way to live for a change--with a neat
    house!!) 
    
    So far, it has made my return to work 100 times easier than I had
    expected.
    
    Sandy
         

    How is your older child responding to the change?  It seems like he/she
    would his the old playmates and maybe be lonely, even with the
    babysitter's child to play with.
    
    Laura

    Laura, 
    My older boy, Tim, went to a preschool 3 full days a week (and as I
    mentioned before spent 2 days alone with his grandmother).  I know  he
    did like playing with the other kids his age and that it would be
    better for him to have more kids his age to play with at least part of
    the week but he really doesn't seem to miss it too much.  We've been
    back to the pre-school twice in the past month for a quick visit (I had
    some loose ends to tie up with them) and he was happy to see his
    friends again, but when we had to leave, he calmly said good-bye and
    really didn't seem concerned at all.  Of course, at the time, he was
    home with me instead and I KNOW he loves being with me and in his
    little mind he probably figured that it was a good trade off.  We also
    did a lot of visiting to friends who had kid(s) his age when I was on
    leave so he did get to socialize.
    
    Now that I am back to work, I realize this might be a problem but there
    are a few things to make it workable.  Most important, he starts
    kindergarten in Sept. so the problem will be resolved by then.  There are 
    also two slightly older kids next door whom he plays well with after they 
    get home from school (and other times once summer comes).  We also just
    bought him a swing set and sand box as well as a BUNCH of arts and
    crafts stuff and preschool math and alphabet books so he can have both
    unstructured and structured play time.
    
    I figured if I were home full time with him and he was enrolled in a
    part time nursery school program, he'd be done with it by summer time
    anyway so the situation isn't much different.  Ideally, I'd like him to 
    have some playmates closer to his age to play with on a regular basis but 
    I think it should work out just fine between now and when kindergarten 
    starts.  We'll see.......
    
    	Sandy

    We've switched daycares a few times, and initially the kids seem to
    miss their old friends, but they get over it and make new friends
    pretty quick.  Of course this is just with little ones, I think that
    older kids are harder to separate from their friends.
    
    Probably not a problem till they're about 5.
    
    

    Kate,
    
    Congratulations!!!  I haven't been into the Parenting Notes for quite
    some time...
    
    Yes, two is harder, but after having read the suggestions in this note
    I'm sure you will cope just fine!!  I'm going to use some of the
    suggestions myself!!
    
    Even though I am not able to apply this "advice" myself due to the age
    differences of my children (7 and 3), I would suggest using one daycare
    provider for both children...I currently have two different drop-offs
    and two pick-ups, which makes life a bit more inconvenient.
    
    Again -- Congratulations!
    
    Jeanne