Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Good for you in making the decision you did (not to allow your child to
    spend time there unsupervised) - it must have been difficult to come to
    that conclusion.  But I know it would be the *only* conclusion, if I
    were in your shoes.
    
    I think I'd consider speaking to each of the parents of the subject
    children as well as "the authorities", whoever they might be (Office
    for Children, the police?).  I'm not sure how to answer your question
    about how you decide when "good care" crosses the line, but "gut feel"
    (the queasy feeling I had when I read the base note) has to be one of
    the first indications.  Best of luck in dealing with an extremely
    tricky situation.
    
    Leslie

     
    You asked! So I'm advising a whole lot of caution about making judgements
    on what you call child abuse. Especially if it involves different cultures
    or ethnic backgrounds. Also, it would help to know the ages of your own
    children.  My opinions were much different before I had my own kids.
    
    My own parents could be accused of a lot of the behavior you describe.
    They would be devastated if someone accused them of sexual abuse.
    
    My husband and I have an agreement not to let our kids be unsupervised
    around HIS folks, because they aren't affectionate enough! [and a whole
    lot of other things, but being "distant" is the biggie]
    
    I prefer too "sappy" to too "distant" with my babies. Too much
    attention [in a short time frame] is better that being ignored and so
    on....
    
    Rochelle
    

    Was your husband sexually abused?  Were his brothers and sisters?  You
    seem to be saying that your definition of proper behavour is the only
    correct way to behave.  Now, I'm  not saying that nothing is going on,
    what I am saying is that you have not convinced me that anything is
    going on.  
    
    
    Mike

In my opinion, your own "gut" feelings are the key to being a good parent!

I don't know what you can do about these other people's children, but *YOU*
are responsible for your children, and you have to do what's right for them!

In a way, you might get off easy - your in-laws might not put on alot of
pressure while they are busy obsessing over these other children, but even
if they pour it on, you sound convicted enough to stick to your decision.

You are fortunate that your husband is ready to START looking at his family
and seeing what is so clear to you.  These things can take a long time and
be very painful - you may have to be very patient.  If no harm is being done
to your kids (you both have the same ideas for your kids safety), then you
can afford to let him figure some of this out at his own pace.

Good luck to you.

    
    RE: .0  
    
    I'm really confused with your use of the word parents.....maybe this
    is the point you're trying to get across???    When you say that
    the little girl calls the parents "mom" and "daddy", do you mean
    that the little girls calls _your husband's parents_ "mom" and "daddy"
    or _her parents_?   
    
    I agree with a previous noter as to following your instincts.   If it
    feels uncomfortable to you, then do what feels right for you.  That
    said however, I, for one, am happy to have a caretaker for my son
    who loves him as if he were her own (i.e. she has pictures in her 
    home of my son, etc) and don't consider it obsessive behaviour.
    
    Carol

This follow-up is being posted anonymously for the base note author.

	-Neil Faiman, PARENTING co-moderator
_______________________________________________________________________________

	I'll admit that I am a little super-sensitive about this topic.
I was sexually abused as a child and my husband was, well, we can't
quite figure out what happened to him.

	He was abused in a very subtle sort of way, he tells stories of
not having any privacy in the house, his mother telling him (when he was
very young) in great detail that his father was not good in bed, that
being the reason why he had to sleep on the couch, stories of his mother
trying to "own" his sexuality (you should have seen how hard she tried
to get rid of me). We have a difficult time trying to decide if he falls
into the sexual abuse category, many of the books say that this type of
behavior is inappropriate, but does that make it true sexual abuse?

	Now that we have a baby on the way, I can see signs of her
trying to "own" this part of my (our) sexuality. (Granted, I'll qualify
this once again, that I am very sensitive to this behavior) I admit that
much of what I suspect is "gut", when I try to list the actions, they
sometimes appear trite, and they are not at all conclusive of any kind
of sexual abuse. For example, I would *hope* that my child could say "I
love you" to me at night time, but it would *not* be a requirement to
turning the lights out and allowing the child to go to sleep. But it is
the behavior, the intention, the obsession that makes me uncomfortable.
For example, her discussion at the dinner table on whether or not I
would be breast feeding and how I could continue at work, bordered on
lewd, again she wants to "own" the experience.

	I have read many books on sexual abuse and have talked to
qualified people about this and feel confident about our decisions to
not leave any child unsupervised (in both parent's households, my
parents' house was an easier decision, we *knew* that sexual abuse had
happened and *could* happen again) and to also let our child know that
they own the rights over their own body and will be allowed to say
"stop" or "I don't like that", or even "I don't want to say I love you"
without feeling bad about it.

	I realize that this is a very sensitive topic and one that I am
not willing to bring to any kind of authority's attention because the
line is so very fuzzy. And the previous noter's remark is correct, I can
really only lookout for my own children.

	I realize that there are qualified, loving home care people out
there who respect boundaries and do not claim the children. I'm just
concerned that because this is all we have known, we may unconsciously
pick someone who reminds us of what is familiar. The fact that we are
starting to identify this behavior though, gives me great hope.

	It does help to hear of other's experiences with "good" day/home
care providers. It helps us to learn what is good (we certainly know
what is bad).

	I guess that continuing to discuss this topic with my husband
and others (much thanks for this forum) and to truly trust my gut
feeling is the only way that we will be able to work this out.

	Than you for all for your input, no one ever said this was going
to be easy.

    
    Wow!  Does this hit close to home.
    
    	First, let me say that, IMO, your husband was abused.  In the sense
    that he was not allowed his own sensuality and childhood without his
    mother interferring.  Maybe he wasn't physically abused, but it sounds
    to me like he was definatly emotionally scarred.
    
    	Second, let me tell you about my own child care person.  When we
    first met, I thought she was wonderful.  However, as time went on, I
    started to see that she was trying to control my kids, developing a
    wedge between us.  At first I didn't believe it, however, the more I
    looked at things the more aware I became.  She has a little girl that
    has been under her care for about 7 years.  This little girl's mother
    has no interest in her as she was "a mistake" - (not my words, her
    mothers) to begin with.  Anyway, my child care provider took this
    little girl and has pretty much made her her own.  (She has a son,
    which raises other problems since she was abused as a child and has a
    real problem with men.  Her son's father died before they could get
    married.  However, she has inflicted her son with a fear of men that
    you wouldn't believe.  I just pity this poor kid when he wakes up one
    day and realizes he's a man and his mother doesn't like men... but
    that's a BIG Rathole.)  
    
    	Anyway, last Thursday, my daughter was there sick.  My child care
    provider ended up taking her and the other little girl and her son (who
    she had kept out of school for the day) to the playground.  I have told
    her over and over that when my children are sick, they're SICK and not
    to be out playing.  I don't want to encourage them to miss school
    knowing they'll go to the playground.  Anyway, I found out they had
    gone and asked straight out, "Where were you this morning?"  Both my
    daughter and the child care provider lied to me and said "nowhere." 
    When I got my child alone, she told me the truth.  
    
    	At which point, I said to myself, this has gone too far.  This
    person who is supposed to be a responsible adult taking care of my
    children has caused my child to lie to me to cover her A**!  I've fired
    her...
    
    	So, yes, I think you're right to be cautious and follow your
    instincts.  If I'd followed mine earlier, I may not have had the
    problems I did.
    
    
    						jean