Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Pam,  I know how concerned you must be with this recent change in your
    son.  For one thing I would sit and have a talk with the boys father
    and then ask his doctor what he thinks of the new behavior.  It could
    be caused from the 3 days taht he spent with his dad when he returned
    from the 6 weeks being away, sicne he lives with his girlfriend and
    maybe she didn't go with him when he went away and they played a little
    kissyface and your son most likely saw them and thaught it was natural
    behaviour.  But I would first talk to the kids dad and then to his
    doctor and see what that does, you might also want to talk to his
    daycare provider also.
    
    
    hope this helps.
    
    Liz

    
    Sounds like normal curiousity to me. He may have seen dad doing
    something similar and is just exploring ...
    
    Explaining what is proper and what is not should be all that is
    necessary....
    
    Doug.

    Steven engaged in some similar flirtatious/precocious behavior at
    about the same age.  I assumed it was normal, answered his
    questions, explained that some things were rude (like touching any
    woman's breast without asking her first) and some things weren't
    right (like movie-kissing Mama).  That seemed to take care of it.  
    
    --bonnie

    I have a three year old son.  A psychologist friend of mine has been 
    telling me that I can expect my son to start developing a sexual
    interest in me any time now.  I couldn't image what that would mean
    until I read your note.  It sounds like your son is following a very
    normal developmental path.  The issue, IMO, is how to deal with it in a
    healthy way.  I'm open to suggestions!

    A women I know tells a story of her son who had just turned 4 .
    They were eating dinner, and he reached over and touched her breast.
    She explained that those were mommy's private parts, and that no one
    could touch them without her permission, just like no one could touch
    his private parts without his permission. He turned to her and said
    "It's ok mom, I'm pretending to be a doctor."
    
	(...she had told him that a doctor could touch his private
    parts....)
    
    Maybe the mod will cross enter this to the kids say the funniest things
    note!!
    
    

    Actually, there is no need to cross post notes in different note
    strings, because (and someone will probably prove me wrong here)
    most people read notes by using next unseen.
    
    

	Just another "that seems normal to me" reply...

	Katie at almost 2 is facinated with my breasts and pubic hair.  I try 
to do what others here say, which is remain calm, and in Katie's case she's 
still learning body parts and is just beginning to identify with me so I matter 
of factly say "Yes, that's Mommy's breast. That's her nipple; you have nipples 
too." "Yes, Mommy has hair there and you don't but you will when you get older."
You get the idea.  
	
	The important thing is to not over react.  If you are still concerned,
drop by EAP and let an expert set your mind at ease or give you some advice as 
to how handle it.  

Tracey

    My 3-year-old son has had a breast fascination for quite a while now --
    focused only on me, as far as I know.
     
    I try to be matter-of-fact. If he sees me getting dressed he points 
    and says "Is that your breast?" (as if he didn't know!) and wants to 
    touch. Sometimes he tries to push up my shirt to see, which I usually 
    discourage. Now that I'm pregnant he likes to say "Is that where the 
    baby will nurse? That's where *I* used to nurse." A few moments of 
    discussion usually satisfies him. 
    
    When this started I told my husband that I hadn't expected him to
    be so *male* so soon! A friend says he's "just being Oedipal" -- I
    haven't read much about the Freudian theory.
    
    I guess if I noticed a sudden or dramatic change in my son's behavior 
    I might be concerned, as the basenoter is.
    
    Lucy
      

    This may not be the right place to put this, so if the mod's want to
    move it they can.
    
    have any of you parents with boy's (don't know if girls do this sort of
    thing) had any problem with your son's touching their penis while you
    are trying to change them.
    
    Alexander is 16 months old and really only does this at night when I
    cahnge him for bed.  He tugs and pulls at it and I am afraid that he
    is going to hurt himself by doing this.  I am also afraid that he will
    become gay (this is just a fear that I have because of his sudden
    intrest in his penis).  
    
    I would like to know how you handeld this problem if you have ever
    experienced it in some way.  Should I contact his pedi and see what he
    says or do you just think it is a phase and it will pass (I hope).  He
    hasn't done it at daycare so far.  But he starts with a new daycare on
    Monday 3/18 and I am afread that he will do it their.  Maybe I'll ask
    my mom who went through this with my 2 brothers.
    
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Liz

    
    Liz,
    
    I think that this is absolutely normal behaviour for young boys.
    My son does it as do some of his "friends".    The more fuss you
    make about it, the more apt he is to do it though, if it bothers
    you. 
    
    And, NO, NO, NO, he will not become a homosexual *because* he
    played with his penis as a toddler.   
    
    Carol

	I don't happen to think that being gay is something that you should 
fear, but be that as it may....

	If playing with your penis/masturbating made you gay, 99.99% of the male 
population would be gay.

	Katie was fascinated with her private parts when we started potty 
training.  I think the fascination was that she had access to the area for a 
change and that what she was doing was connected to that area. We were concerned 
because she was turning red.  But we figured, she's a smart kid.  If it hurts,
she'll quit.  Besides, we figured the novelty would fade. So we ignored it.
Sure enough, she's quit.  Oh, occasionally she fingers herself a bit (just 
checking to make sure everything's still there, I guess :-) ) but it's not the 
constant occupation that it was for a couple of weeks. 

Tracey

    Liz, 
    
    I don't see anything to worry about. 
    
    Current research indicates that if he's gay, he's gay, and it
    isn't because of anything he or you did or didn't do during
    childhood. Since statistically about 1 out of 10 males is gay, I'm
    sure about 1 out of 10 of us who are parents of sons will be
    dealing with that issue in the coming years.  
    
    Both my sons do this -- I presume because it feels good.  I can't
    imagine them tugging on something that sensitive if it hurt!  So I
    don't think you have to worry about anything on that score,
    either.  When Steven got a little older he learned that it was
    something he should do in private, but David at 17 months is still
    a bit young for that concept -- especially since he didn't ask me
    to be standing there changing his diaper...
    
    --bonnie

Liz,

I have only girls but I think your son is very normal.  Last week when I took
mine for their checkups (2 yrs, and 4 mos.) I told the pedi that Kati
stinks - AND I MEAN STINKS! - between her legs alot.  She asked me if Kati
plays with herself.  I told her yes, but I don't try to stop her because I
don't want her to become ashamed of her body.

The pedi told me that playing with herself is quite normal, but it irritates
that area, causing it to stink, so I should wash better and more often.  She
said she often has little boys who play so hard that they bleed, and it is
quite normal.  Her only suggestion was that, if Kati should start this behavior
in public, to suggest that it is a private thing to do, and wait until she
got home to do it.  (Thank goodness she hasn't done it yet.  I still get
awfully embarrassed with her public breaking of wind!)

Along the same topic..... Kati is also very interested in my breasts.  I think
it is because I nurse Kimmi Jo and Kati wants everything Kimmi Jo gets.  We
all three shower together (this reminds me of Bruce - has anyone seen or heard
from Bruce lately?) and Kati will often try to bat at my breasts.

The joys of toddlerhood!

Kristen

    I'll join the "it's normal" chorus. My son has pulled, tugged and
    played with his penis ever since he discovered it was there. Not to
    worry.
    
    Lucy
     

    Another for the "it's normal" chorus...
    
    I recall being asked when my oldest was a baby what I would do
    about masturbation. My reply was 'wait until he finishes and  put
    his diaper back on'.
    
    Bonnie J

And just wait until he outgrows diapers and is in "big boy" pants!
Then he'll have easier access to it!!  :-)

         Carol

    re .10
    
    Both of my boys did - Christopher (5 1/2) seems to have outgrown this -
    Jason (3) still grabs hold and tugs and pulls and pushes - and
    occassionally hurts himself, but then he stops when he hurts himself. 
    The biggest thing for them was grabbing ahold and not letting go when
    we were trying to get their diapers back on - they thought this was
    pretty funny since it tended to delay bedtime.  After a while we just
    taped up the diaper - hand and all.  They let go.
    
    I think it's very natural, especially since we never said anything
    about it to either of them, and they both did the same thing.
    
    The funniest (related) thing was with Christopher a few months back. 
    In the morning he wakes up with an erection (to pee).  Well, one
    morning he DIDN'T and as he was getting undressed, he kind of freaked
    out when he looked down and said "This isn't *MINE*!!  Mine's BIGGER
    than that!!" ... I just wonder why he was so concerned that bigger was
    better (not from me!).
    
    It's normal - just be glad he hasn't started grabbing YOU (Yet!).
    
    

All of the recent talk about body terminology in another note brought me
to this note string again.  I have reread these notes and many of you have
said that your child would try to (or ask to) touch your breasts, but no
one has said what to do about it.

Evan is now 3 1/2 years old (March 11 will be his birthday), and he is
very interested in my breasts.  Several months ago (a year now?) when he
first asked to touch my breasts I let him, thinking he just wanted to know
what it felt like (I remember that type of curiosity from when I was a kid).
He knows what it feels like now, doesn't he?  I know young kids like lots of
repetition, but I've felt a little uncomfortable about this.  Back then I let
him touch my breasts a few times, but in the last few months I have refused
him.  In the last couple of weeks or so I've been wondering if he has 
devised some ways to "accidentally" touch them.  His elbow will rest there
at an unusual time (like when he wasn't anywhere near them a minute ago) 
or he will "accidentally" brush my breasts as he reaches for something 
(reminds me of teenage boys!). 

Soooo, what do I do?  I taught him that he is supposed to ask, but now I
always say no.  Should I just tell him he can't do it anymore, and if so,
then how do I explain that without giving him a bad feeling about bodies
or something?  Or is it okay to let him touch them now, and if so, then 
when should I not allow it anymore?

    Carol

I, too, have experienced this with my son.  I sort chalked it up to a couple
things:  1) curiosity, and 2) budding sexuality!

My son (a little older than Evan) would want to come with me when I dressed, or
ask to shower with me, or even want to put his head on my chest (and by his
actions I could tell he wasn't just resting).  He did this around the age of
5.  We were less modest around them when they were little, but now that they
understand the concept of privacy (knocking on closed doors, etc) we ask them
to dress in their rooms, we dress in ours.  They take their own showers, we take
ours.  We try to stress that our bodies are our own and that we have the right
to say who touches and who doesn't.  I tell him I don't think it's appropriate
for a child to touch a grown-up in private places nor for a grown-up to touch
children in their private places if it made them uncomfortable.  My kids are
very good about understanding "adult words/messages" in the sense that we
don't have to talk down to them.  They understand what we mean and in what 
context we mean it.  Be open, honest, and upfront with them and hopefully they
will respect and treat you the same.

Try to discourage Evan, but at the same time let him know that you will treat
him the same way!  It has helped us alot!


-sandy

    Having another child this summer when Ryan was 3 provided a great
    natural outlet for talking about - and touching - my breasts.
    Allowing Ryan to talk and touch resulted in quick disinterest. Rarely
    now he mentions his nipples or breasts but doesn't really ask anything
    indepth.
    
    Carol - I'd say let him touch when he asks, and then perhaps talk about
    it - how women's are different from men, what they feel like to him
    when he touches them etc. And then perhaps ask Evan if wants to know
    anything else about them.... that might give you a clue as to why he
    keeps coming back for more!  It might also be a good lead-in to a
    discussion on people's bodies being private and that it's always
    important to ask to touch etc.
    
    

    I have a one month old girl, so I don't have to be concerned with this 
    right now, but would like to be prepaired (for both boy girl ??'s).
    
    Do both boy's and girls ask these questions?
    
    Do boy's ask mom's and girl's ask dad's because they are different, or
    do boy's ask dad's, girl's ask mom's.
    
    In the case of the same sex, do you say it feels the same as when you
    touch your own.  Or does it even matter (same sex or not).  If their
    curious let them touch and satisfy there curiousity.  
    
    I think you get my point.  What is "acceptable?" and to what extent,
    What if once isn't enough to satisfy there curiousity...........
    it seems that there might be a fine line here....     
    
    Comments................
    
                       John