Conference moira::parenting_v3

Dottie,

That scares me just to think of it.  I haven't seen it
but I know it is AGAINST THE LAW in many states.  I
think I would call the authorities immediately if not
sooner!

Kristen

p.s.  I will admit to leaving Kati in my running car
(her in her carseat in the back) in the garage while
I run back in to get something I forgot....

    
    For what its worth, at my son's 12-month well-baby check up, his
    pediatrician specifically cautioned me about leaving him in the
    car unattended (even in a car seat).   She had just seen a one-year
    old the week before that was in a car accident.   He had unlatched
    his car seat belt, climbed into the driver's seat, and put the
    car in neutral.   The car rolled into a tree.  The child was not
    seriously injured...but could have been.   This is just something
    Jason would do (which is probably why she cautioned *me*, knowing
    his personality) and is real scary!
    
    Carol

    Just a forewarning that still makes me shudder to think about it.  Last
    year our van caught on fire while parked and "not" running.  My husband
    just got back from the lunch and went into his building at work. 
    Someone came rushing in and said, "Your van is burning!"  No concusion
    was ever made as to how it started.  It could have been fault wires,
    etc.????  We had just finished insulating and paneling the inside.
    
    Fortunately, no one was in the car, especially my children!!
    

    Last summer I stopped at a convience store and as I walked by this one
    car I could hear a baby crying.  I didn't see anyone in any of the cars
    so I went over and in the front seat, all by itself, with the window
    all the way down was a baby maybe about 1 month old.  I couldn't
    believe it!  I stayed there next to the car for about 10 minutes
    until the mother came out, and before she got into the car I said 
    'You know, I could have been a kidnapper or a crazy person and could
    have easily taken off and been long gone with your baby.'  She just
    gave me a dirty look and told me to mind my own business.
    
    ** Some people should not be allowed to have children. **
    

    
    Similar to .2. One of our friends left the car running with both their
    sons in thier car seats. Forgot something went into the house and
    before she could get back out the toddler from the back seat climbed
    out of the car seat, got behind the wheel put the station wagon into
    drive and took it for a drive through his dads shed. Kids were OK
    car only scratched and stalled, shed demolished.
    
      If you've got to go back into the house to grab something, put on the
    parking brake, shut the car off, and take the keys so they can't start
    it. This also depends on the neigborhood, weather, etc.. you have to
    judge. I'm sure a lot of parents do this, you just have to be the
    judge.
    
      But leaving any child in a car anywhere is just asking for trouble.
    

    I'm kinda embarassed to say so, but thanks for opening my eyes.
    Several times I've pulled into a self serve gas station and have
    left my son in the car to run in and pay.  Usually there's no one
    in line ahead of me, so it's just run in and out.  But on occasion,
    I've had to wait a few minutes, especially if I'm using a credit
    card.  From now on, I will make sure I take the extra time to take
    him out of his car seat and bring him in with me.
    
    Lori B.

Another incident:  This summer I went into Toys R Us and a lady was at the 
telephone dialing 911 because she had seen a toddler locked in a car outside.
It was in the upper 80's that day and the baby had a wool blanket over him.
Everyone was gathered around the car trying to talk to the baby.  FINALLY, the
15-20 minutes later a young girl came out who was babysitting the baby and 
had run into Toys R Us for diapers.  She got a good tounge lashing but the 
police didn't come in time, and she took off!  Bummer!

    This is completely off the topic, but some gas stations now have credit
    card readers right on the pump, so you avoid the problem of leaving the
    baby when you go in to pay (which I've done also - although I make sure
    I can see him at all times).

    That's a great idea.  Unfortunately, they haven't made their way south
    from N.H. yet!  There are none in Central Mass. that I know of.  
    

    There is a gas station with credit card slots on the pumps at the
    intersection of routes 20 and 495 in Marlborough.  I believe it's a
    Sunoco.  So they've at least started to find their way to this area. 
    Hopefully they'll be all over the place soon -- it really is a nice
    feature.
    
                                           Tracy

    
    Just recently on ABC 6:00 news they had a big story on a lady that
    lived in a apartment complex (I think it was in Boston), and she
    would leave and go to work everyday (said the neighbors), and leave
    this little boy (2 yrs. old) alone.  She tied him to the end of the
    couch so that he would only be able to move so far around the living
    room space, with the t.v. on, a potty chair, and some food on the floor
    in a dish!  I saw this and was almost in tears.  I think this is a 
    total shame how mothers could do this to their children.  Well, a 
    neighbor ended up calling the DSS on day because she heard crying 
    as well as other neighbors did too.  They looked down on the floor of
    the door to see if they could see through it and knew that something
    was wrong.  By the time DSS arrived the mother still wasn't home so
    they took the little boy into "protective" custody!  
    
    
    -Nadine
    

    
    I think like everything else, one has to use good common sense when
    dealing with leaving a child (or children) alone in the car.
    
    When Hannah was an infant, I would NEVER leave her alone in the
    car--because I was told it was illegal to do so.  On quite a few
    occassions, I would be running errands that would literally take 30
    seconds (like dropping film off at the 1-hr. developing store).  I
    always thought it was ridiculous that I would have to wake her up to
    bring her into a store (with a big storefront--so I could see her from
    the inside of the store) to write my name and phone # on an envelope
    and then, drop film into a slot.  But I did it.  In retrospect, and
    with Baby #2 on the way, this time, I would leave the kids in the car
    for the 30-seconds--much easier on all of us (but I'd take the keys
    into the store with me!).
    
    Likewise, when I run into the Convenience Store to get some milk--I
    leave Hannah in the car--if she will agree.  I live in a small town and
    I can see her from every angle in the store--and I have the keys with
    me in the store.  I would NEVER leave her in a car in a large parking 
    lot so I could run a quick errand in a department store.  She'd be
    scared stiff and I would be totally paranoid the whole time I was in
    the store.  When I leave her in the car, she can usually see
    me--wherever I am--just like I can see her--and it's a real quick
    thing--like paying for gas, or getting the newspaper, or milk, etc.
    
    We do leave her sleeping in the car in our driveway or garage if she's
    fallen asleep on the way home from somewhere.  Our feeling is, "let her
    sleep."  She usually wakes up within 10-20 minutes of reaching
    home--and I have my eye on the car the whole time.  I'm usually out
    there ready to get her before she's even realized where she is!
    
    Again, I do not support people leaving kids in cars for more than a few
    minutes at a time--and do not support people who cannot see those kids
    from every angle while they are running their errand.  But I do have a
    hard time with the idea of waking a sleeping baby for the sake of a
    quick errand--etc.  Also, I DO NOT allow Hannah out of the car while I
    pump gas.  To me, it is far more hazardous to have her in the gas
    station parking lot--especially when one or both of my hands is busy
    pumping gas.  I try and park in the island closest to the pay center
    and again, I can see her from every angle...
    
    Like everything else...common sense and prudence...
    
    Bonnie
    
    BTW
    A friend of ours left his car unlocked (which I always do!) in the
    driveway of his house.  His 4-year old somehow found the car key, got
    into the car, and was able to put the car into Neutral.  Their driveway
    is on a steep hill.  Luckily, the kid steered the car into an
    embankment and did not hit the two toddlers playing in the driveway at
    the time.  Close call.  I keep on reminding myself to lock my car!
    
      
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    I don't live in the Northeast. Around here there are a lot of self-serve 
    stations with only an attendant inside a convienence (sp?) store.
    Especially after dark - I REFUSE TO BUY GAS THERE!  A few months ago,
    an owner converted his station to this kind of setup and I let him know
    that with 2 children it was impossible for me to buy gas there
    and from now on I'll be going around the corner to the UNION station.
    
    Maybe its due to our fair weather conditions, but there are plenty of 
    stations with attendants that come outside, around.  I'll pay the 1 or 2 
    cents per gallon difference.  I want my kids in the car, next to me --
    too many cars, fumes and strange characters around gas stations.
    
    Rochelle
        

    I have to agree with Bonnie for those quick stops at the convenience
    store or to run in and pay for gas, the kids will be fine for a minute
    or two.  Of course, I can *ALWAYS* see them, and them me.  And the
    car's always locked, and I have the keys.
    
    BUT, I will say that they can get into trouble REAL quick.  One time
    when Christopher was about 3, we were running out to the store, and I
    told him to get in the car while I locked up the house.  He was about a
    minute ahead of me.  I came out, he was in his seat (with a weird look
    on his face), and the car was sort of shaking a little bit, and was
    further forward than it had been.  It made NO sense cuz our driveway
    slopes down toward the end, not the front.  I thought perhaps my
    husband had moved the car, and ignored the rocking.
    
    Later, when we found Christopher's tricycle pedal bent up, we put 2 and
    2 together ..... the keys had been in the car because we were just
    doing a quick "Run in, run right back out again".  He had climbed in
    the car, turned the key, and the car jerked forward (I have a
    standard), hit his bike, bent the pedal, scared the poop out of the
    kid, and he hauled it into the back into his seat just as I came out
    the door.
    
    ....I'm glad I have a standard!
    
    DEFINITELY take the keys!!!
    
    

    re: .14
    
    I also have a standard, but unless the clutch is engaged, nothing
    will happen if you turn the key.
    
    Lori B.

    I agree with Bonnie, as well.  If I stop for gas at a self-serve
    and my daughter is sleeping, I let her sleep, but I lock the car.
    The cashier is all of 10 feet away, also.
    
    But not to rathole or anything...  Rochelle, the price difference
    between self-serve vs. full-serve here in the northeast is more
    along the lines of 25 cents.  I adds up if you have to fill up a
    van...
    
    - Kathryn
    

    Even with an 8 year old I am very uncomfortable leaving them in the
    car, not only because of what they might do, but because it only takes
    that 30 seconds for someone to get the car opened (even when locked)
    and the kid out.  I'd rather put off the errand so the kid can be left
    home!
    
    

    One year, when I was about 13 or so, I was down in southern California
    visiting my cousins. The only thing anybody could talk about was the
    trial of a young woman who'd left her twins locked in the back of her
    car while she went shopping. Due to the heat and lack of proper air,
    they died. I have NEVER forgotten that story and look at it as a proper
    lesson to myself about kids in cars. But I do agree with the others,
    good common sense MUST be used. It all depends on the situation, and
    what you know of the behaviour of your children. Me, I'm usually the
    over-careful type, but I won't REALLY know how we react until we've
    become parents ourselves this spring....
    
    Monica
    

    When my son, now 11 years, was 1 year old I was going from Arizona to
    Washigton.  Traviling with a friend.  We stoped by this creek to wash
    up. We parked right next to it and was only planning on being a few
    minuts.  I have always been thankful that I never left a sleeping baby
    in the car.  I actuly woke him up and carried him with me.  We were
    only gone about 5 minuts and when we got back the car was on fire.  The
    flames were so bad I could not get near it.  The cadilatic converter
    was hot enough that it cought on some pine needles and went up real
    quick.

    Now with my 10 month old I will leave her if my son is with her or I
    will wake her up even if it is just for a minut.
                                           Once scared, now overly safe
                                                                 Mary
								 

    
    Not to rathole, but there are many gas stations that are SELF-SERVE
    with an attendant that comes to your car.  They usually don't speak
    English but are more than willing to take your money! Is this not the
    case in the Northeast?
    
    Rochelle
    
      

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
    
    With the weather we are having, the self-serve attendant won't even
    open the window more than half an inch...come out to your car????
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

    
    My kids are absolutly the most important thing in the world to me, and
    i would never leave them for even 30 seconds to run in somewhere,
    (believe me, i've been tempted)  i only get my gas after i've dropped
    them off at daycare or during my lunch break at work, or if they are
    with me then i will go to a full serve and pay the price.  the couple
    of bucks are worth it - you can't put a price on kids if something
    happened to them.  and if i need milk or something, they either come in
    with me, or i don't go, period.
    
    i once read about a woman who left her child in the car, ran in to get
    something, the window was right there and while she was standing there
    at checkout, she watched a man kidnap her child right out of her car. 
    I dont believe the doors were locked.  by the time she could react, and
    run out, he had jumped into a van and was gone.  As far as I know, the
    child was never found.  Ever since I read that story, nothing i need
    can be that important.
    
    my 2 cents
    

    re .-1
    
    >i once read about a woman who left her child in the car, ran in to get
>    something, the window was right there and while she was standing there
>    at checkout, she watched a man kidnap her child right out of her car. 
>    I dont believe the doors were locked.  by the time she could react, and
>    run out, he had jumped into a van and was gone.  As far as I know, the
>    child was never found.  Ever since I read that story, nothing i need
>    can be that important.
    
    There was a story just like this a few years ago in England; it made
    international news ... I wonder if this is the one.  It turned out
    to be a lie ... I cannot remember the exact details but I believe she
    had accidentally killed her child (by shaking!) and was trying to find
    a cover up.  Remember that child kidnappings are extremely rare ... 
    most are by (ex)spouses in custody disputes.  So, unless you are in
    that situation, I would definitely not let that be a major concern.
    I believe abandoned babies are far more common than abductions to put
    some perspective on this.
    
    Of primary concern is safety ...  I'll leave ours in the car under
    appropriate circumstances for varying lengths of time, depending on
    the child, circumstances and place - no fixed rules - but common
    sense prevails.  If I do, the car is left locked with instructions
    to not unlock except in emergency to get out, but never to a stranger.
    Windows are opened no wider than a crack. And the keys are taken.  They
    don't stay in the car on a HOT day.
    
    Fortunately, our cars have interlocks preventing them from casually
    being moved into neutral or gear from park.  MOreover, the kids have
    been given strict orders not to touch the mechanicals ... and short
    demonstrations where appropriate of what could happen ... like
    neutral will cause the car to roll etc ...
    
    So, don't be paranoid, but at the same time, be careful.
    
    Stuart

    
    
    Stuart,
    
    "...and short
    demonstrations where appropriate of what could happen ... like
    neutral will cause the car to roll etc ..."  just wouldn't work
    for all age groups.    Certainly, showing my 16-month old that
    if he shifted into neutral, he could get the car to roll would
    achieve a result exactly OPPOSITE of the desire!!  (I get get
    your point, I just couldn't resist pointing this out).
    
    Carol

    I did say ... where appropriate ... :-)   Fortunately, it is
    impossible for our toddler to get out of her car seat .... 
    (hahaha famous last words I'm sure ... but those who know the Evenflo
    7 year car seat will know what I mean).
    
    The older two are very safety conscious ... so simple demonstrations
    drive the point home very easily.  On the other hand I know of a
    certain 5 year old who thought it would be great to paint a car,
    just like his dad painted things ...  I used a melange of unstirred
    paints ... the first psychadelic car ... and this back in '56!
    
    Stuart
    
    

    Okay then .... for those who insist that they would *NEVER* leave their
    kid *ANYWHERE* for even a second - what do you do when you're at home
    and you need to run upstairs or downstairs, or take a shower?  Do you
    drag your kids with you for every second?  A LOT can happen in a 10
    minute shower, and you're out of sight, out of earshot, and completely
    unaware.  You're downstairs tossing in a load of laundry, and that's
    the 3-4 minutes that your toddler decides to see what would happen when
    he picks up the butter knife you left on the counter (cuz you're making
    lunch), and sticks it into the wall socket.  
    
    I don't think it's all that different.  If you remain within sight of
    the kid for the quicky runs into the store or to pay gas, and the
    children are locked in the car, it's just as safe, if not safer, than
    all the times you leave them unattended at home.
    
    In the time it took to blast up from the basement stairs to grab the
    phone, and turn around to close the cellar door, the baby got to the
    door first and took a ride in his walker .... 
    
    So 2 mins in a car in sight is better than 10 mins 'alone' at home
    where you have a false sense of security....!

    .26> what do you do when you're at home and you need to run upstairs
       > or downstairs, or take a shower?  Do you drag your kids with you 
       > for every second?
    
    From Alex's birth to age 4 1/2, we lived in an apartment bldg (a flat
    on the 3rd floor).  The laundry room was in the basement, and yes, I
    did drag her with me if I was doing laundry when she was awake.  And
    yes, it was "a drag" for me most of the time but it was fun for her,
    and she was "helping".  I learned very quickly to do the laundry AT
    NIGHT (Fridays and Saturdays, "date night" for everyone else in the
    world, was optimal for machine access!), and of course I'd lock the
    apt. door.
    
    Showers?  NFW!  When she was an infant, I'd strap her into her
    rock-a-roo and put her in the middle of the bathroom floor where she
    couldn't even touch anything (I wouldn't have been able to hear her if
    she were in any other room).  From the time she outgrew the rock-a-roo
    til she was ?3 1/2? I NEVER took a shower when she was awake.  Of
    course it depends on the child; mine was never remotely interested in
    light sockets, etc., and we conspired (starting even before her first
    birthday) to keep the CAT out from under the kitchen sink.
    
    I agree with you in principle - you really CAN'T be within arm's reach
    100% of the time - but in your example,
    
    [step 1] > In the time it took to blast up from the basement stairs
    
    [step 2] > to grab the phone, and
    
    [step 3] > turn around to close the cellar door, the baby got to the
             > door first and took a ride in his walker ....
    
    I'm sure you agree that NO TELEPHONE CALL IS SO IMPORTANT that you need
    to answer it before you close the cellar door.  The phone can ring
    again later; the baby can't un-fall.
    
    Finally, I'm with the group who turns off the ignition; takes the keys; 
    gives the child (now 6 years old) a choice of coming in or not + a
    reminder talk on not getting out, unlocking doors or talking to
    strangers; locks the doors and RUNS in to a well-fenestrated
    convenience store for maximum 3 items.
    
    Leslie
    (windows cracked if necessary, and never in hot weather),

I remember when I was about 7 or 8, my mother left me in the car while
she went in to pick up some dry cleaning (I think it was).  I decided it
would be fun to move the shift lever (an automatic) to see what would
happen.  This was before the days of interlocks.  The result was that the
car started to roll forward, and I was terrified.  If it hadn't been for
a curbstone, the car would have rolled down a steep hill and hit more cars in
another lot.  I don't think I touched the controls again after that!

I will leave my 7-year-old in the car, if he wants, while I run into
a convenience store (as long as I can see the car from inside the store),
and when I pay for gas.  In the latter case, I think he's safer in the car
than being subjected to possibly being hit by cars whizzing into a free
pump space.  However, when I do so, I shut off the car, remove the keys
and lock the doors - interlocks prevent the shift lever from being moved
without the key.  He is able to unlock the doors if an emergency arises, and
if I'm going to be out of sight, or longer than 3 minutes or so, he comes
in with me (over protests many times).

I would be more concerned about car fires or other physical accidents than
I would be kidnapping - as Stuart points out, in the real world (outside
of tabloids and rumors), child kidnapping by strangers is almost completely
unknown.  But there are enough other dangers as to require a modicum of
sense when deciding whether or not to leave a child unattended.

				Steve

    We leave the kids in the car in 4 places:
    1) inside the garage, when we have the keys, and the garage door is
    shut, in order to run back in and turn off a lite or grab something we
    forgot.
    2) at the gas station. My wife is the one doing this, as she's the one
    who aoways has the kids when getting gas. She uses the pump nest to the
    pay window (no, you don't go inside anywhere...the window is in a tiny
    little building and you stand outsied, a literal 3 feet from your car,
    and pay) and will wiath in line for that one, even if others are free.
    
    3) at the teeny little rural post office in our town. Car is directly
    in front of door. Door and front of building are glass. Never any
    waitng or line (that emplyee must be the most bored person I've ever
    met!). Total of maybe ten feet from kids and car. Keys in my (or my
    wife's pocket. Kids laectured each time to stay in belts. Never out of
    their sight, for the toatl of maybe 1.5 minutes it takes.
    
    4) at the place we buy milk. This is a teeny "store" right at the dariy
    farm, out in the middle of nowhere. Max. of one car there with you.
    Kids can see you, you can see kids. Cashier knows everyone by name, and
    all the customers are familiar with all the others. Cashier even
    carries your milk out to your car for you! (well, doesn't for me, but
    for my wife, who is obviously pregnant, he does!).
    
    And no place else!
    
    I'm more curious on this question than anything else, since our oldes
    tis only 5, but at what age do you think you would feel safe leaving
    your child alone in the car for more than a few minutes? I realize it
    would depend on the child and the surroundings, but my gut feelings are
    maybe around 10 years old. Is that out of line?
    
    --dave--

    Not terribly relevant, but all this reminds me of an incident.
    
    One surprisingly warm winter day I was taking
    my infant to visit a friend.  I had
    my baby in the carseat in the backseat.  I got out of the car,
    intending to open his door and take him inside with me.  But
    I decided to take my coat off and leave it in the front seat.
    I did that and locked my door, and then discovered to my horror that
    I had put my keys in my coat and the car was now completely locked
    with the keys and the baby inside.
    
    I was all set to panic when a passing 12 year old kid said, "What's
    the matter, lady?"  I explained the situation, and he said, "No
    problem", knocked on the nearest door, (my friend was
    not the nearest door -- my parking spot was about
    2 blocks away from her apartment), came back about 8 seconds
    later with a coat hanger, and took about 10 seconds to get into
    my car.
    
    Ever since then I've not bothered to lock my car (except the back
    seat when the kids are inside), since it seems if the nearest 12 year
    old kid can get in within 18 seconds, what purpose does it serve.
    
    Unfortunately, my friend knew of the kid, and he's been getting into
    trouble on and off for things like auto theft.  But I was sure glad
    he was there when I needed him!
    
    Radia

    Re .30 - Locking the car serves a great purpose considering the fact
    that most people don't characteristically walk around with coat hangars
    in their pockets. 8*)
    
    Seriously though, I too once locked my keys in the car, luckily not the
    babies.  It took two cops about 45 minutes with a special metal device
    to open the car (Volvo), so a lot depends on your car.
    
    As for leaving children in the car - I think you must rely on your
    better judgement.  I will leave my four in the car if I can see them
    from wherever I'm going to be, if it is not hot, and if I will be gone
    only a moment, such as the time it takes to purchase a gallon of milk,
    pick up the dry cleaning, a pizza, or make a call at a pay phone, or
    get some gas.  Otherwise, I'd go nuts.  Imagine the logistics of
    dragging along two 6 year olds, a 4 year old and a 17 month old every
    time you wanted to pick up a jug of milk?
    
    Let's get reasonable here folks, most parents are pretty sensible and
    love their children and wouldn't do anything to harm them.  Sure you
    hear the horror stories, but I believe they are the exception, rather
    than the rule.
    
    

re: .30

Gee, I thought I was the only one who had ever done that.  It was one of those 
classic situations where my brain knew that it should stop my arm from closing 
the door, but couldn't.

Unfortunately for me, there were no journeyman car thieves around, and my car 
was hard to break into, (as .31 points out, they're not _all_ easy to break 
into).  I felt like such a jerk -- Lara was crying.  But by the time I had 
gotten to a phone, called my wife, and returned to the car, she was sleeping 
peacefully.

Clay

When I was little my mom left me in the car while she
went into a 7-11 store.  I put the car in gear and it
started rolling into the street, right into traffic.
Luckily a little old lady ran beside it, managed to
open the driver door and step on the brake  - or I might
not be here right now.  (I can still picture this little
old lady - what a sight!)

Just think if there was an emergency (child choking,
car fire, etc.) and a good citizen could not get to
your child because the door was locked.......  Actually
I'm not advocating leaving the doors unlocked but it
sure gives you something to think about.

Kristen

Kristen,

    I am glad you brought that up.  The few times I have decided to let my
baby sleep in the car while I paid for gas or bought milk, I left the car
unlocked for exactly the reason you mentioned.  Maybe I am naive, but I 
figured that there was a greater risk of an accident than a kidnapping
(and I grew up just outside of New Your City!)

-Carol

I don't lock the door either.  I agree that the chance of an accident is
much much higher than the miniscule chance of falling victim to a random
kidnapper wandering through the gas station looking for a fussy baby to 
take home.  

--bonnie

    At age 4 I feel AJ is old enough to be given the option of staying in
    the car or going in with me, if it's just a quick in and out milk type
    purchase at the convienience store, or dropping off at the post office
    or paying for gas.  He usually wants to come so it's not really a
    point.  This kid is just so afraid he might miss something!
    
    As for locking the car, our car is set up with children in mind, the
    back doors have a flip latch that makes it impossible to open from the
    inside.  The driver's door can only be locked from the outside with the
    key.  You simply can't just push the button down and shut the door.  
    
    I remember in horror the day I stopped to see how backed up the hair
    salon was, AJ needed one desperately, he was sleeping, I could see him
    perfectly from 5 feet away at all times, so I ran in. While I was in
    there, less than 2 minutes, he woke up and was crying hysterically
    saying he woke up and didn't see me.  I now know I'll at least wake him
    and let him know what's going on, even if it is only 2 minutes.
    
    As a side note, we have a friend with a brand new house and a 13 year
    old  boy who decided to "test" his driving skills....right through the
    back of the attached garage!
    
    And the woman we bought our home from drives a school bus, her 3 year
    old was playing in the bus during a drivers' meeting and somehow
    disengaged the bus (we'r talking large, big, and yellow here!). When it
    started rolling she paniced and jumped out and was run over by the rear
    wheels!  No permanent damage, but she did have to have several ortho
    and plastic surgeries on her legs.  
    
    Does it ever get better???????
    
    Lyn

    Did anyone see the interview in the Sunday Worcester Telegram?  They
    were interviewing a woman who's husband is stationed in the Middle
    East,  the article was pretty much discussing surviving on one paycheck
    and how hard it is, but this woman said that although she minds the big
    difference in income, she minds more having to bundle up three children
    just to go get a bottle of milk or bread.
    
    Guess under those conditions we shouldn't complain :-) !!
    
    Lyn

    ...Be careful about what services you assume they provide.  My station
    wagon has these devices on the 2 back doors (you have to open the door
    to de-/activate them; switch is on the exposed edge of the door).  My
    observations on *my car's* flavor of these:
    
    1) They do NOT lock anyone OUT of the car; when activated, *they allow
       entry* but not exit from that door.
    
    2) Any child dextrous, devious and determined enough to get out of his/
       her carseat will promptly figure out how to roll down the window and
       use the outside handle.  Or crawl to the front seat and get out that
       way.
    
    3) The only person these devices have fooled is my octogenarian grand-
       mother, who got very panicky in the time it took for us to scramble
       back around to her door and release her.
    
    Your mileage (and devices) may vary,
    Leslie