Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Mike,
    
    My former provider (no rankles here, Carrie just outgrew her) had a
    contract that I signed when I first started with her.  She had paid
    holidays (Christmas, New years, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, the
    standards) built in.  I did not pay her for vacations as long as I
    notified her in advance.  When Lorraine took a vacation, she did not
    ask to be paid for that week, as she knew that all of us had to make
    alternate arrangements for our kids.  She was also kind enough to give
    me a months notice when vacations were coming up.
    
    I paid for Carrie's sick days, although Lorraine was set up to take
    sick kids.  I just felt better if I had her with me on the first day or
    two of an illness.  Lorraine thank your favorite deity, was extremely
    healthy, and had her husband (self employed) as backup, the few times
    whe really did feel ill.  Had she been ill, and I had had to make other
    arrangements for Carrie, I would have treated it the same as vacations.  
    
    In short, her contract with me had most of this spelled, out, and if I
    were doing day care, I would probably use a similar contract.
    
    Meg

    Mike:
    
    For our Daycare we pay as follows:
    
    1. Holidays are paid.
    
    2. Sick days are paid if OUR kid is sick, or if our kid is out for any
       reason of our choice.  We don't pay only if SHE can't provide care,
       (except ONE week of her two week vacation).
    
    3. We split vacation pay.  = She get 1 weeks paid vacation.  We
       dont't pay for ONE week of OUR two week vaction.
    
    4. Anytime over the agreed on week = overtime at $2.50 per hour.
    
    Jeff

    
    	Wow, I'm really lucky.
    
    	I pay $1.00 per hour.  I only pay on days my daughter is there.
    
    	My babysitter has taken 4 days off in the last 2 years and she
    	even made arrangements for her mother & niece to take care of
    	my daughter while she was gone.
    
    	This is not a daycare but in a private home.  My babysitter cares
    	more for my daughter than getting paid.  I love it and feel great
    	about having such a wonderful babysitter, trusty, reliable &
    	bi-linguel yet too..
    
    	deb g
    

    In our home, we decided that the environment for our own kids
    outweighed any oncomveniences.  We currently only charge for the days
    the kids are at our home.  Our experience has been that the parents
    usually pay us a bit more as their experience was to pay regardless of
    whether the kids were cared for or not.  Since our "vacations" coincide
    with those of our charges (both are teachers), the issue of payed
    vacation has never arisen.
    
    Dan

    Lexi is in a home daycare.  If Janice or her kids are sick, she is not 
    paid (although we opted to give her 3 paid sick days).  If Lexi is sick
    she is paid.
    
    Janice takes 2 weeks of vacation and asks that we take one of those
    weeks as part of our vacation.  In this case she is not paid for
    vacation and we do not pay if we take one additional week.  
    
    Janice also has paid holidays.  Her husband works for DEC, so her
    holidays are DEC's holidays.
    
    Hope that this helps,
    Penny

    I have home daycare for Ryan very close to home. My sitter does not
    charge for any day that she cannot take Ryan - whether she's sick, her
    kids are sick, or whatever.  If I leave Ryan home for any reason, I
    still pay.  I do not pay for holidays.  I do not pay for her 2 weeks of
    planned vacation. And, since I plan my vacation for the same weeks, I
    don't pay for additional weeks that I might use as my own vacation.
    

    We basically pay our home daycare provider when:
    
    
    - Days our child is home sick.
    
    - Days she can not take our child because she or her child is sick.
    
    - Any vacation days we take and do not bring him.
    
    - Any holiday we do not bring him.
    
    
    But we do keep track of the days we pay her for non-care and use these for
    emergancy days/pre-payment when we need a sitter on short notice.
    
    We do not pay her when she takes vacation.
    
                             
    

    We have paid our home daycare provider for every day (weekday holidays
    included) since our daughter started with her in August, 1988--EXCEPT
    one day when she took off to go to a funeral. Until this week, which
    our provider is using to recuperate from same-day surgery done last
    Friday, she has never taken a sick day.
    
    Our feelings are that since Digital gives us paid sick days, vacations,
    and holidays, our provider should be paid as well. Of course, if she
    took an excessive number of sick days, vacations, and holidays--and
    didn't take our daughter on the holidays like Columbus Day and
    Washington's birthday, when most of the world except for Digital isn't
    working--we'd probably wouldn't be so generous. But our provider has
    helped us out many times both during and before/after working hours,
    and deserves to be rewarded financially for it.
    
    Nancy- 

    My daughter is at a daycare center and I pay the same amount every week
    whether she is there or not. The only exception to this is that they
    split the summer into two week sessions and you sign up for the ones
    you want your child to attend and those are the ones you pay for.  
    
    Ginny

Melissa gets taken care of in our home by a woman (in her 30s) and occassionally
her mother.  They get paid weekly.  They have off any time we have off and they
get paid for it.  Our feeling was that the regular payments would be easier to
budget and would allow us to offer a slightly lower weekly rate.  Because there
are 2 of them alternating, there are very few circumstances in which neither of
them can make it (so far).

Dick

    See also topic 97, "Daycare Vacations", and its 65 replies.
    
    	-Neil

    Our child is taken care of by a woman in her home.
    
    We pay if our child is out sick, if we go on vacation or if we decide to 
    take a day off.
    
    We aren't charged for days she is sick, she is on vacation, or holidays.
    
    I think this is fair.  I would also think it's fair if she wanted to
    charge us for holidays, but since she doesn't want to do that, even 
    better!
    
    Donna  
    

    
    For us, the rules are a bit different between in-home daycare and a
    daycare center.
    
    When Hannah was in in-home daycare, I paid my provider the agreed upon
    weekly amount, no matter what.  This woman was worth her weight in gold
    and paying her the same amount each week was the one way I could say
    "thank you" to her for the wonderful job she was doing with my
    daughter.  As I recall, I paid her for holidays, sick days, vacation
    days, etc.  My feeling was that I got paid for these days--and it was
    only fair that I do the same for my daycare provider.
    
    When I transitioned Hannah to daycare ("preschool"), the center had
    fairly stringent rules that were clearly spelled out.  We pay for
    holidays.  We get 2 vacation weeks a year in which we don't pay--we
    have to give them 1 month notice as to when we will be taking our
    "vacation."  They close for 1 week per year.  We can use that week as
    part of our "vacation" time--otherwise, they get paid for that week.
    Basically, we take 3 weeks vacation per year--one of those weeks is
    when the center is closed--and we don't pay for 2 of 3 of those
    vacation weeks.  We pay if our daughter is sick.  We don't pay if the
    center is closed for some unforseen reason--like when all the toilets
    backed up and they had to close for a day.
    
    Bonnie
    
    
    

    
    Mike,
    
    We pay our (home) daycare provider her salary 52 weeks a year.  So,
    she is paid for the 10 standard DEC holidays, whatever time WE
    take as vacation, and whatever time our son is too sick to be
    in her care (not very often since she takes only one other child
    and will take Jason with sniffles, slight fevers, diarrhea, etc).
    
    In the 13 months he has been there, she has only asked for a couple of 
    hours off here and there to cover doctors appointments, for which
    we have paid her.  She has never had a sick day herself or scheduled
    her own vacation time but we have a basic understanding that she
    will receive her weekly pay whenever we don't have to find and pay
    for alternate care.  In other words, if she requested a specific 
    week for vacation or personal reasons, and we were not able to cover 
    the time off with our vacation time and had to pay alternate care, she
    would not be paid for that time.
     
    In turn, she does not charge us for "overtime" (rarely used anyways)
    and in fact volunteers to keep Jason if we'd like to go out for
    supper or run to Spag's (she thinks it's too dirty to take a baby
    there!).   
    
    Carol
    
    

    
    Ditto, Carol!
    
    When we first approached daycare (JA was just one year old), we decided
    on a sitter (about 25 years old) who had two kids in elementary school
    and a child 5 months older than JA (at home), so Elizabeth was at a
    perfect age as a playmate and mentor for JA.  Cheryl is also a
    neighbor, so we knew her and her family personally, and it makes
    pickups and deliveries easy.  It's more like an extended family 
    setup for us ... as her kids can always come over to our house 
    if the bus drops them off early, or they loose their house key, or
    someone needs eggs, butter ... it's great!
    
    We agreed that we would pay for all "scheduled" days ... if JA stayed
    home, we would pay.  We would NOT pay holiday and vacations (since JA
    is "parttime").
    
    Well, after a few weeks we found that Cheryl was very, very good both
    to and "for" JA.   JA was extremely happy, no squabbling ever occured
    over what "should have been", no problem if I were late (or early), JA
    never ever cried when dropped off or picked up (couple of times she
    would rather stay and play than go home).  Jim/I were so pleased with
    how well the arrangement AND CARE was working out that WE DECIDED 
    Cheryl well deserved a "salary" ... no matter what!  If I'm a little 
    late picking JA up, I try to offset it with taking Elizabeth for a 
    little time ... but more often than not I'm ahead of the game.  We try
    to schedule our vacation time around the time when Cheryl's older kids
    are out of school, but there have been times when Cheryl has had all
    four kids and never once complained.  Cheryl also includes JA in all
    activities -- beach, visiting, shopping, etc.  There's been a few
    afternoons Cheryl has had JA for the entire day and into the evening
    and never expects any extra pay.
    
    We supply diapers and a gallon of milk every other week ... and I'm apt
    to contribute some cheese, crackers, popcorn, etc. (when I remember!).
    I also give Cheryl "pin money" for JA ... small toy purchases, Burger
    King, small gift giving, beach days, etc.
    
    Cheryl will bathe JA and dress her up "pretty" prior to any
    appointments (Pedi's, family get-togethers, etc.) ... OR on "dirty"
    days (sandbox, spagetti, etc.).
    
    Cheryl has offered to take JA to the Pedi's, etc. (if I get tied up)
    ... but I refuse as this is DEFINATELY asking way too much of our
    sitter! (so I reschedule the appointment).
    
    Cheryl takes JA under "any condition" (sniffles, ear infections, teeth
    cutting, mood swings) ... and never complains about the days she has
    obviously worn out the runners of the rocking chair!  We keep each other
    informed of any "potential" illnesses and get the sick one to the
    doctor's asap.
    
    We've used Cheryl a few times for a few hours in the evening and we pay
    her at least $4/hr for "beyond daycare" time.
    
    Cheryl appears happy with this arrangement ... and we are absolutely
    thrilled with Cheryl -- She earns her SALARY ... and THEN SOME!
    
    If you are lucky to get a good sitter ... treat her like gold, as she
    will become one of the most important people in your little tyke's
    life!!  I don't EVER worry about JA ... she is in G-O-O-D hands!!
    
    I don't ever hesitate writing our weekly check to Cheryl!
    
    Dottie

    AJ was in home day care from just past his first birthday until last
    fall.Most home situations have the same basic rules, "I get paid when I
    am available to sit for you", if I am not i.e. sick or vacation or need
    toa close down early you don't pay, holidays as well.  This works well
    for me since as a DECTAG I don't have paid vacation or holidays.
    
    Last fall we changed AJ to a preschool type of curriculum daycare, for
    a lot of reasons, which seemed good at the time, but we're now having
    second thoughts.  We pay a full week even if it includes a holiday,
    they will close down for a holiday unless there's five children
    scheduled to be there.  This has already created problems several
    times, such as Columbus Day and paying full weeks for three days care
    during Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years' week. 
    
    At this time we're tentatively exploring our options, including going
    back to home daycare since  we don't seem to be getting as good care
    for our money, plus if we're not there on or before 5:30 we are charged
    a penalty.  This is a tough deadline if I get stuck in the Route 20
    traffic from Marlboro going west in the slippery weather we've had
    lately.
    
    I guess what goes along with this is a request (via mail to
    CSGDEC::TRIPP) for recomendations for caregivers convienient to the MRO
    facility.
    
    Lyn

    I am wondering if anyone else has encountered this situation and how do
    you deal with it fairly. My daycare lady justg handed me a schedule of
    the holidays she expects to be paid for. The issue at hand is that
    these 3 of these holidays are school holidays not DEC. I don't have a
    problem payhing her for the ones DEC allows us. I just need some
    opinions. By the way, last year she was well forewarned what holidays
    DEC pays. I am well aware I'll be facing this issue when my daugther is
    of school age. She's only 16 mths and not I am not ready to deal with
    this yet. Any info appreciated
    
    -clo

    Geez, if everything else about your daycare situation is comfortable
    to you and your daughter is happy and thriving there, I sure wouldn't
    sweat 3 days daycare pay!    You have to decide if the cost of the
    daycare *over the course of the year* is reasonable to *you* for the 
    services rendered.   
    
    IMHO, of course.
    Carol 

    Yes, carol your point is well taken! The pay isn't my concern so much
    as
    finding alternative care on those 3 days. 
    
    -clotelle

I had a discussion with a daycare center director several years ago.  The 
center is in the greater Maynard area, so a lot of the clients were Digital 
employees.  The specific holiday was Veteran's Day.  She told me that she used 
to stay open on Veteran's Day, but that so few kids showed up it wasn't worth 
her while, even with a reduced staff.  I didn't have any way of checking out 
her statement.  I can imagine a number of reasons why it might be true --  
older siblings in school, or one parent that works at a place that gives the 
holiday, or they were planning on taking the day off anyway.  

It was definitely an inconvenience.  We handled it by taking vacation days.
Since there were two of us, and we had both been with DEC long enough that we 
had a lot of vacation, it wasn't too painful.

Clay

    
    As far as alternative care is concerned, we have taken the same 
    course as Clay and take vacation time to cover days when our
    daycare wasn't available.   I'm assuming since you already know
    what the 3 days will be for this calendar year, that you have 
    some time to plan and prepare for these days.   If you can't take
    time off from your job(s), how about a friend or a family member
    who doesn't work?    Or juggle you and your spouse's (assuming a
    two-parent household) work schedule for a day (i.e. one work 1st
    shift, one work 2nd shift) if that's possible.   
    
    Carol

    re: .20
    
    I imagine it's true.  Steven's day care used to stay open on those
    days, and usually 5 of about 45 kids were there.  
    
    A good source of alternate care is a high school or junior high
    school student in your school system -- they're out of school and
    at loose ends on those days too.  Your day care center might also
    be able to refer you to someone.  
    
    --bonnie

    Just for what it's worth, I know I'm in the minority here but this
    DECTAG doesn't get paid for vacation or other time off!!  After dealing
    with a week of split time off due to AJ's Chicken Pox, then followed
    last week by the center almost not opening on Monday the President's
    day holiday, I was at risk of a) loosing my job and b) having serious
    financial difficulties since the daycare center wanted to be paid even
    though he was out all that week sick.  Fortunately we are a
    "double-Digit" family but my husband has a job too (WC4), and
    responsibilities and would like to continue his carreer at DEC so I
    can't ask him to take every sick day and holiday to spend with our son.
    
    For what it's worth, last summer AJ was in a home daycare situation and
    the provider took 2 weeks together, we found by calling the referral
    numbers provided by DEC that there are people and centers who will take
    children for an occational "emergency" day, (Provider is sick or has to
    leave town unexpectidly) or as we used it for a week or two alternate
    during vacations.  We've found at least 6 in the
    Marlboro/Northboro/Shrewsbury area.
    
    Just a question, if your provider takes a day or week off, are you
    still expected to pay for that day or week, even if you have to pay a
    substitute provider?....Inquiring minds want to know!!
    
    Lyn

    We use a home day care situation and don't pay for any time that Gina
    isn't there...our call or hers.
    
    I think this is somewhat unusual, but I like it a lot!  :-)
    
    judy

    RE: .-2
    
    Lyn,
    
    I don't think that you are going to get a specific answer as each
    provider will have a different policy.  In our investigations prior to
    starting a family daycare, we found that in general the daycare
    "centers" usually require payment regardless of the reasons for
    absense.  This is primarily due to the fact that the employees must
    still be paid.  Family daycare providers tend to be a little more
    flexible.  We don't charge for missed days.  We also don't charge for
    tardiness, although that has never been a problem.  The only problem we
    havbe is that we can not count on the actual $$ each week.  Since the
    daycare $$ are for paying off debt, we are not completely dependent on
    it.  Therefore we can be more flexible.  In my opinion, I would rather
    be a bit flexible and keep the clients that we have (so far good people
    without problems) than to chance getting others which are not so easy
    to deal with.
    
    Dan

    
    My daughter Hannah is at a daycare center.  Because of a chicken pox
    outbreak, she cannot go to the daycare center for 2 1/2 weeks--until
    all known cases are identified and there is no chance of secondary
    outbreaks.  I am 8mos. pregnant--and have no immunity against chicken
    pox.
    
    I've had to scramble like crazy to find alternate situations in which
    to leave my daughter while I'm at work.  Thank goodness I only work
    part-time, so it's not as bad as it could be.
    
    During these next 2 1/2 weeks, I not only have to pay her daycare
    center their fee--but I also have to pay the people I'm leaving her
    with their fee as well.  So for the next 2 1/2 weeks--I'm forced to pay
    DOUBLE for daycare.  
    
    What about them apples?
    
    Bonnie
    
    

    I know the feeling.  My daughter had Cystic Fibrosis and at one point
    was in the hospital for 2 months.  I still had to pay full day care
    every week to "hold her spot open".  I mean really!  I could understand
    if I just felt like keeping her out for 2 months but the poor kid was
    in the hospital.
    

    RE: .26, we went through a Chicken Pox outbreak at Daycare during
    Valentine's week, 14 of the 17 children had it that week, and we all
    know the outbreak started there. Our center (the YMCA in Northboro) has 
    a policy that the children be out one full week, I checked with my pedi 
    on that, who said that a full week is a little extreme.  2.5 weeks would 
    be enough to make me look at other daycare centers!  What I did with my 
    situation was to be up front with the director, and tell her, look I'm a 
    DECtag and I don't get paid for the time out of work, and I can't swing a 
    full week's fees, she compromised and allowed me to pay a "vacation week"
    rate which is a half week.  I managed to get my father inlaw to take
    him one day so we could both work a full 8+ hour day, they cited the
    "possibility" of Shingles as their reasoning for a week off, which IMO
    really isn't their decision to make, it's slight&rare possibility.  
    I have also had problems with the daycare taking holidays, which are DEC 
    workdays and being stuck paying two sitters that day too,  I've been 
    upfront with the director and let her know I'm less than pleased with their
    policy of taking holidays not stated in their brochure, just because they
    can't get their minimum of 5 children to commit to attending.
    
    RE: .27, I used a home daycare situaton we had a couple years ago the
    sitter had a rule that if the child was hospitalized she wouldn't
    charge.  And as luck (or misfortune) would have it, that was the time
    AJ had to be hospitalized for his asthma, she didn't charge for that
    week, but we stopped using her because she was *obviously* in it for
    profit, not the children, and kept referring to it as "her business".
    
    Just my thought!
    Lyn

    
    It takes about 1 week from the onset of chicken pox for the sores to
    *completely* scab over--meaning, about 1 week from onset for your child
    to be non-contagious.
    
    Of course, your mileage may vary, but the above is the rule of
    thumb--according to my OB, my pedi, and my immunologist.
    
    Please be very careful with chicken pox.  Pregnant moms like me--who do
    not carry any antibodies to the virus--need to be *vigilant* about
    exposure.  If my child were in your daycare center, I would INSIST on a
    week out--if not, that your child had a signed note by his/her pedi.
    stating that they were no longer contagious.
    
    Bonnie
    
    

I strongly a agree with Bonnie on that.  The risk of problems related
to adult chicken pox is quite high.

As a side note, adult chicken pox and shingles are not the same thing.
Adult chicken pox is a primary chicken pox infection as an adult.  Shingles
is a reactivation of dormant chicken pox in a adult who had it as a child.
Shingles is a really miserable thing to have (this is from experience) but
adult chicken pox is MUCH worse.

Dick

    
    
    
    When pregnant, I came in contact with children who were recovering 
    from chicken pox.  I too never had chicken pox so was concerned.  I
    asked my OB and he assured me if I did get it, it would not affect the
    baby.  True, I'm sure I would have been miserable if I caught it.
    
    Just an FYI, there is medication which has been shown to dramatically
    shorten the duration of chicken pox.  I forget the chemical name but
    one brand name is Zovirax.  It is used for herpes simplex.  (Chicken pox
    is a form of herpes.)  I know of one adult whose child had chicken pox,
    and she was taking this medication right before her own break out of 
    chicken pox.  The duration lasted only three days and she was back to 
    work.  This fact was also confirmed by an article I read in the Reader's 
    Digest medical section.  The medicine was used by a group of children and
    their duration also was dramatically reduced.  
    
        			
    					Darlene
    					

    
    Darlene,
    I don't know where your doctor got his information--but I have about 40
    articles at home--all from medical journals--stating the EXTREME DANGER
    TO THE FETUS/BABY of adult chicken pox in pregnant women.  In addition,
    my OB, my Pedi, and an immunologist from Beth Israel all agree that if
    I were to get chicken pox, it would be bad news.
    
    There are two dangers:  chicken pox in the 1st trimester causes birth
    defects--much like the German Measles virus does.  Chicken Pox in the
    last trimester is dangerous because, if a woman has it during
    delivery--there is over a 90% chance that the baby will get it--and
    newborns can and do die from chicken pox.  Also, there is a general
    feeling that high fever during pregnancy is not a good idea--and adults
    getting chicken pox generally run a high fever.  There is also growing
    evidence (but nothing conclusive as yet) that chicken pox can cause
    problems in the 2nd trimester as well---more toward having to do with
    organic brain dysfunction--ie: hyperactivity than with physical birth
    defects (as in the 1st trimester).
    
    Also, regarding the drug you mention--I highly doubt that an OB will
    prescribe anything stronger than aspirin to a pregnant woman.
    
    The only thing I know of to prevent chicken pox in an adult with 0
    immunity is a shot of anti-zoster gammuglobulin.  That is why my OB
    has brought an immunologist in--just in case I'm exposed (and know of
    the exposure)--they can give me the shot poste-haste.  It will give me
    immunity for a few weeks--enough to get through the incubation period. 
    There are no side effects to the shot--and they will give it to a
    pregnant woman.  Only thing is, it's the gammuglobulin (the immunity)
    of a lot of different people (ie: lots of different blood pools), so it
    does carry with it the risk of AIDS.  I'd prefer to avoid having to get
    the shot--as you may well understand--even though the blood pool is
    supposed to be reasonably safe these days.
    
    Further, there is a chicken pox vaccine that has been in experimental
    use at various cancer centers (Dana Farber included) for about 10
    years--but is not yet approved by the FDA.  There do not appear to be
    any side-effects from it and approval is expected within the next few
    years.  My OB wants me (and other pregnant women with 0 titers to
    chicken pox) to get vaccinated AFTER we deliver.  Whether we can or not
    is a different matter--but they will definetly NOT vaccinate us while
    we're pregnant.
    
    At this point, I am an authority on pregnancy and chicken pox--so if
    anyone has any questions--I can cite articles, look things up, get
    expert advice, etc.  I can't wait to have this baby already....with
    chicken pox going around--you can't believe what my life has been like!
    
    Bonnie
    
    

    RE.31 and .32
    
    I'd be interested in when .31 was told chicken pox wouldn't harm the
    baby.  When I had my son 18 years ago I had taken care of a 2 year old
    while pregnant.  The child got chicken pox and my mother couldn't
    remember my ever having them.  My doctor also told me there would be no
    harm to my unborn baby even if I got chicken pox.  The medical profession
    changes from day to day let alone 18 years and I have heard doctors now
    say they believe it it dangerous to the unborn baby.  The info .31's
    doctor gave her may have been a few years ago.
    
    

    
    
    re 33:
    
    You are right.  The info about chicken pox not causing harm was about 
    7 1/2 years ago.  Regards the Zovirax, yes you're right about a doctor
    prescribing during pregnancy.  I doubt if a doctor would since some 
    animal tests have shown it may interfere with implanation of the egg in 
    the uterus.
    
    The medicine Zovirax, however, maybe something an adult who is not
    pregnant may wish to discuss with a physician in case he/she does come
    in contact with it and has not immunity to chicken pox.  It's worth the
    inquiry.
    
    					Darlene