Conference moira::parenting_v3

    FWIW : first and foremost I'd make sure that "who ever" it is she is
    staying with really wants her to come and is ready to make it a fun
    experience.  Your daughter should "choose" this person, more than you
    in so much as her comfort and security is most important while you are
    away.
    
    While away, I have given the baby sitter a post card and small surprize
    for each day away.  I have also phoned in to say good night (but NOT
    right at bedtime !)  Each kid handles things differently; mine was
    (still is) on the "clingy" side.  You are lucky in that it appears your
    daughter doesn't mind your being absent sometimes.  Also I think it
    helps that they perceive you are excited/happy (not about leaving them)
    but enthusiasm is catching... and the "sitter" will have lots of fun in
    store for her.
    
    Good Luck

    I agree with .1 - If you make your going away an adventure for your
    daughter, then she will enjoy herself too.  Whenever we go away, and
    we have for as long as 4 nights at a time, we have either my mother
    come and stay or a very close family friend.  Sometimes we have both,
    so the responsibilities are shared and the children have a variety.
    
    I prepare them for a few weeks ahead of time that we will be leaving,
    telling them that Maggie (grandmother) is coming to stay with them,
    etc.
    
    I also have them help me make a little chain of construction paper
    loops, one loop for each day that I'm away.  Every morning they get
    to cut one of the loops and when they reach the last loop (I make it
    a different color than the others), that's the day that we'll be coming
    home!
    
    I call, but usually in the middle of the day when I know they are
    busy and won't react to missing me too much.  I have a harder time
    with this than the kiddos, because their voices sound so sweet and
    young and I get sad missing them...but I don't let on.
    
    Once your daughter has a few positive experiences with you being away, 
    it will get easier for both of you!
    
    
    Good luck,
    
    Dorothy
                       

When staying overnight with Grammy, our 6 mo. old has had more problems with the
crib (mattress is not as soft as at home) than with being away from us.  She
woke up several times during the night but she also does that in this crib when
we are there.

I would suggest starting as early as possible with staying over.  45 minutes is
not too far to have your parents or in-laws take the kids when need be (our
case has been when we were doing interior painting in the house).  At least
your relatives aren't 6 hours away (that's where my side of the family is  8^{).

I completely agree with .1 that the caregiver for overnight stay must be
prepared and know what they are getting into.

Dick

    Another suggestion, if the child is staying at the other person's
    house, make part of the stay going back home and being there when Mom
    and Dad come back. The kids can make a welcome home sign and maybe help
    prepare a snack for you, etc. 
    
    I do think the majority of any problems will arise when the sitter does
    not know what to do with the children and does not know the child well
    enough. Don't be afraid to plan out the weekend with the sitter - you
    could even provide movie gift certificates or McDonald certificates to
    help out.  I think the majority of any anxiety (on everyone's part) is
    knowing what to do all that time. You need to know whether to bring all
    your child's favortie toys because they will be spending alot of the
    time at home, etc. With an older child don't be afraid to discuss it
    all because they will know what they are getting in for. 
    
    For some children it is better to have the sitter stay at your house
    versus taking the child there. I've found this especially true for
    younger kids (under about 18 months) but does definitely depend upon
    how early you start leaving the kids for overnighters. You can decide 
    which is best for your child.
    
    Have a good trip!!
    Andrea

    What do people think about leaving an 18-month-old at Grandma and
    Grandpa's house for 10 days while Mom and Dad go on vacation?
    
    My parents _love_ children and are thrilled about getting to spend this
    much time with Marc.  But how will Marc react?  He's never been away
    from both of us overnight before.  Is this too long for a first time?
    
    We're planning a backpacking trip, so we won't even be able to call in
    every day.

    In re: .5
    
    My reaction is that 10 days without phone contact is quite different than
    one to three nights with it, for a kid this age.  An 18 or 24 month old
    can't really conceptualize time intervals of more than a day or two.  I 
    like the chain-of-loops suggestion in an earlier reply, but I think this
    wouldn't work for such a long interval.
    
    My response is partly quite personal.  When I was 1 year old, my parents
    were out of the country for a few months, with my older brother; I stayed
    with an Aunt and Uncle who I hadn't known earlier.  Of course, I have
    no _memories_ of this myself.  And when I heard of it as an older child,
    I didn't particularly react.  But when my son Aaron got to be 1 himself,
    and I thought about doing such a thing, I was quite horrified.  It seemed
    to me it must have been somewhat like double abandonment, having first to
    adjust to the absence of familiar parents, and then to adjust to the
    return of by now almost total strangers.  Whatever the actual effects, it
    is a convenient event on which to blame my twisted personality.  
    
    I've known somewhat older kids who did fine with intervals away from 
    parents of, say, a week.  But I think it was always in cases where they
    had been used to one parent travelling for such intervals, and where
    they had spent shorter periods with neither parent around.
    
    Unless you're doing real long distance backpacking, could you take Marc
    along?  My kids went on camping trips starting at a few months, and were
    themselves backpacked a lot on day walks.  Couldn't you tailor the trip
    so this could work for you?
    
    		- Bruce

    What does it mean that younger kids can't conceptualize the meaning of
    time?  Does it mean that 10 days can seem to them like 10 years does to
    us, so when the parents come back they are total strangers?  Or is it
    that since they have no sense of time, after a day or two, it doesn't
    matter how long you're away?
    
    I think I'll ask my pedi's opinion.
    
    And, BTW, we were planning an 8-day backcountry hike into the Grand
    Canyon.  Definitely not appropriate for 18-month-olds.  Of course, we
    could always change our plans and all of us spend 10 days at the beach!  

I think it depends a lot on the child as to how the reaction would be.

I thing that I agree you should do is to talk with your child about it
and prepare them for it.  We have always talked about these things (whether
it's us leaving her somewhere and someone coming to visit or anything else
that we have planned) and have *always* been gratified that our daughter
seems to accept (and look forward to) what happens.

Collis

    Here's my pedi's opinion:  
    
    It would be easier for Marc if he stayed home and Grandma and Grandpa
    came to our house to take care of him, but if we are going to leave
    him elsewhere, we should make sure and spend a few days with him
    beforehand to get him adjusted to the new surroundings.  Also, since
    he goes to daycare every day, he's used to being with different
    people in different surroundings.  
    
    She stressed that by no means will this experience cause him any
    long-term damage or trauma, that kids' memory at 18 months isn't that
    long and kids adjust very well to this sort of thing.  When we come
    home, he might either be mad at us and/or very clingy, but that 
    shouldn't last long.
    
    As for the question of what is his concept of time, she said that after
    a day or two, he'll adjust to us not being there.  He will miss us,
    certainly, but she said it wouldn't really matter that much if we were
    gone for a week or 2 weeks or 3 weeks.
    
    And the ever popular, this is usually harder on the parents than the
    kids :-).  And we should go and enjoy ourselves!

    What I meant about conceptualizing time is pretty simple.  If you tell 
    an 18 month old that New Years comes in 10 days and the 4th of July comes
    in six months, and then ask a few minutes later which comes first, s/he
    probably can't tell you.  Likewise, something that happened 10 days ago
    seems about equally distant as something that happened six months ago
    (assuming s/he remembers both).
    
    I would worry that if you tell your kid that you will be back "soon,
    only ten days," that after about 2 or 3 days he will conclude that you
    lied. When you return, he will experience it as if it had been a year. 
    He will certainly survive intact, but there might be long term impact
    on the degree to which he trusts you (though I agree that he probably
    won't consciously remember it very long).  I realize that this opinion
    differs from your pediatrician's.
    
    		- Bruce
    

We left our daughter with her grandparents for a week when she was eight 
months, with no problem.

BUT, we stayed at a hotel, where we could call within a few hours notice.  

In your case, consider not only how Marc reacts, or might react, but also 
consider how you react, or might react.  You WILL think about your child.  
If you have some sort of premonition, or bad dream, or a worried thought, 
you may want the ability to call and ensure that everything is all right.  
In my experience, these kind of feelings are MUCH more prevalent when the 
child is an infant or toddler, and MUCH more prevalent the first time that you 
leave your child.  We had such feelings, and I think that the reassurance 
that calling would be easy to do prevented us from having those feelings 
more often.  

There are situations that even the best, most experienced, most competent care 
providers have doubts about how the parents want it handled.  If it should get 
handled properly (in the care provider's view) but mishandled (in the parents' 
view) there is possibility for real trouble.  I'm not suggesting that you 
dwell on a worst case scenario -- but I do suggest that you give thought to 
things that do happen -- injuries, sick with a fever, whatever.  Such events 
can turn a kid who might normally love a week with Grandma and Grampa into a 
kid who absolutely MUST have the reassurance of mommy or daddy's voice.

Of course, you may not react like we did.  And the probability is that nothing 
bad will happen.  But I would think about it if I were you.
	
Clay

    re: .9 Deb, if Marc goes to daycare, are you planning on having him
    still go while you are away? It might help keep things a little more
    consistent for him (plus give your parents a break as well). Especially
    if the pedi suggested they come to your house. (A bonus - maybe leave a 
    to-do list with your parents so they have things to do during the day. My
    mother-in-law would be in her glory if she could watch my son and have
    the opportunity to wash my floors and tailor my clothes! God bless her!!!)
    		
    Have a great time! Bring lots of film and make sure you share your
    vacation with Marc when you come home. 

    I honestly don't know if it would be practical for my parents to come
    to my house.  I doubt that either of them could be away from work that
    long.  
    
    As for going to daycare, my mother would defintely not want to do this
    (neither did my mother-in-law who came to stay with us when I was on a
    5-day business trip last summer).  You'ld have to know my mother to
    understand, but, since she only sees him every few months, she wants
    to spend every minute possible with Marc.  I could try and explain
    that he'd be happier maintaining as much of his normal routine as
    is possible, but I think I'd be wasting my breath!  And since they
    won't be able to take care of him at our house, it's a moot point
    anyway.
    
    I'm also taking into consideration someone's note about us not being
    able to call to make sure everything's OK, plus nobody being able to
    get hold of us in case anything _did_ happen.  
    
    We're going to think some more about this.  I appreciate everyone's
    input.  

    Deb,
    
    Some hospitals have forms that you can sign (sometimes you need to have
    them notarized) that transfers responsibility for emergency
    authorization of treatment to your caregivers. This takes a great
    burden off your mind, in knowing that they could authorize emergency
    treatment for your son, if it was necessary. I heard of a case once
    where a child had been mauled by a dog. At the ER they could stabilize
    her (IV's, etc., but couldn't stitch the wounds until they had parental
    permission! (Stabilization is a life saving condition and can be done
    without permission, but stitching is not). By the time they located a
    parent, several hours had gone by and permanent scarring was now
    inevitable, because the time between injury and stitching that had
    elapsed was too great (a matter of only 6 or 7 hours). We did this on
    one or two occasions when living in NY, and it was a great comfort.
    
    If *absolutely* imperative, I'm sure they could get in touch with you
    even in the Grand Canyon. The rangers know every inch, and would
    probably know where an established backpacking trip would be. They
    could reach you on foot, helicopter, by walkie-talkie, etc. Don't not
    go because of that!
    
    After a day or two, whether you're gone two more days or 10 more days,
    won't make any difference to Marc, time wise. They'll all seem long to
    him. If he is happy and kept playing, he won't miss you *most* of the
    time. In our experience, bedtimes are worst for missing moms and dads.
    That's when they are winding down, activity halts, and they're *tired*
    to boot. You might want to make a tape for Marc, of you or your husband
    saying goodnight, saying bedtime prayers, singing a little song,
    reading a favorite book, etc. ... whatever would seem familiar to him.
    Make as many different days worth as you'll be gone, and maybe one or
    two extras for in-between cranky times. Don't be surprised if you find
    out that he wants to hear them over and over again. End each message by
    assuring him tht you *will* be back, and that you miss him and love
    him.
    Then *go* and have a good time!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Another thing you might want to consider is planning something special
    for sometime shortly after you return (as simple as a lunch at
    McDonalds, or an ice cream cone. Or maybe just another day off from
    work where you just spend it playing with Marc.). Be careful about
    planning anything for when you get back (as in that day), as flights
    can easily be delayed or cancelled, and you might get back too late for
    the promised treat.
    
    Treat it as an adventure for him, and I think you'll find that's how
    he'll view it, too. (even though their will likely be some last minute
    whining, clinging and crying).
    
    As important as our children are, we started as husbands and wives, and
    that's the way we'll end up after our children grow up and leave home.
    Take the time to keep that relationship growing and vital....your kids
    will actually be better off for it! Take the time to be together again
    as just a husband and wife, and forget (for a couple of days!) that
    you're a mommy and a daddy, too!
    
    --dave--
                                          

    Thanks Dave for the great words of encouragement!  My husband and I
    stayed up 'til midnight talking about this again last nite and came to
    no decision.  However, reading your reply convinces me that it'll be
    OK!  I'm going to print your reply out to bring home and show him.
    
    As far as getting in touch with us if some emergency arose, you have to
    register your itinerary with the Backcountry Office so they always know
    where you are.  And my husband (believe it or not) actually thought
    about renting a celluar phone to take in our backpacks!  
    
    About the tapes, yes this is a great idea.  We are planning on making
    VIDEO tapes of ourselves.  Reading him stories and saying goodnight are
    good suggestions.
    
    Thanks again,
    

    Oh, one more thing...  You mean that GRANDPARENTS wouldn't be allowed
    to authorize emergency treatment?  Only parents?

In Illinois, grandparents can not authorize emergency treatment.  Since my
mother-in-law is my daycare provider, she has a written authorization.  I could
post a sample that I adapted from one I found in a book, if there's interest.

=ss

Sounds like you've reached a good conclusion.  I was feeling kind of guilty 
that my cautionary note might cause you to miss out on a wonderful experience. 
If you want to do something enough, you can find a way around the obstacles; 
I just wanted to make sure that you had considered all the obstacles.

As for the emergency treatment, why take a chance?  Not only should you make 
sure that you authorize the grandparents to get more than life sustaining 
care, but you also need to make sure that the medical services provider knows 
that they will get paid.  That's as much, or more, of a problem than the 
authorization.

Clay

    Deb, 
    
    We live in MA and I always left a signed "permission slip" with our
    nannies stating that they could authorize treatment under consultation
    and recommendation of the doctors. I didn't use any formal(legal) form
    but a version I wrote up myself, including insurance info, pedi info,
    affiliated hospital, etc. I also called my pedi anytime we were away to
    let them know just in case our son was brought in by someone else (like
    if he got an ear infection). They wrote her name down on his records
    as a secondary "parent" and we discussed billing procedures (you pay
    before you leave at my pedi's office). Give your pedi a call and
    explain the situation - they might have a formal form. I think also in
    that process, it authorized the pedi to perform things at the hospital
    (like if my son had an appendix emergency, his pedi was now authorized
    to be called and either perform or assist in the treatment).
    
    It provides piece of mind while you're away!!
    Andrea

    Deb,
    
    Steven was 3 when we left him and Kat with my parents for three
    weeks while we went to Australia.  He was fine while they were
    there, but he had a really rough time coming back home. 
    Apparently he perceived that he had been moved from us to his
    grandparents, and he wasn't ever going to see us again.  Then when
    he had to give up his grandparents, it was upsetting.  I'm not
    sorry we did the trip, it was the adventure of a lifetime, but I
    wish I had been better prepared for the aftermath.  I suspect that
    at 18 months, two days and ten days aren't much different.
    
    I used to go backpacking with Kat when she was a toddler -- up
    until carrying her plus sleeping bag plus an overnight's worth of
    food and baby supplies got to be more than about 45 lbs. total. 
    (She was a small kid,)  I had a Gerry backpack for her and a
    canvas rucksack that I tied onto the bottom of the frame for our
    stuff.  I don't remember now how many trips I took, but it must
    have been at least once as summer from the time she was 18 months
    until she was about 3.  She loved the sleeping bag, the trees, the
    lake, all the different stuff.  
    
    I never went longer than overnight, though -- ten days might be a
    bit much.  
    
    A friend of mine who hiked a lot used to carry a small
    walkie-talkie kind of thing that he could be reached on in case of
    emergency.  Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to exactly what
    it was.  
    
    --bonnie