Conference moira::parenting_v3

    If she's happy with what she's eating, I don't know if I'd introduce
    fruits and veggies this soon.  My son didn't even start on cereal 
    till he was 4-1/2 months.  The way it usually goes is,  you start
    the baby on rice cereal, see how s/he tolerates it, then in a week
    or so start introducing fruits, then yellow vegetables, then another
    cereal such as oatmeal or barley, then green vegetables (peas and
    green beans are good "firsts") and finally meat.  I have found
    that virtually every baby loves applesauce and strained peaches. Pears
    gave my son gas.  But he went to town on applesauce and peaches!
    
    I'm surprised that the pedi would start your daughter on cereal so
    young.  No criticism intended.  20 years ago, when my oldest nieces
    and nephews were born, a lot of kids started cereal at 4 weeks or
    sooner.  These days it's more like 4 months.  But every doctor,
    every baby and every parent is different.  Again, no criticism
    intended.
    
    If she's tolerating the cereal well and seems to want more food,
    then go ahead and start applesauce.  As you know, introduce only
    one food at a time in case there's any reaction.  And take it slowly --
    if she goes "off" any of her food for a while, give her what she does
    like and skip the rest.  She has the rest of her life to eat.
    
    I really sympathize.  James and eating drove me completely CRAZY for
    months.  Still does, actually...he won't touch vegetables, no matter
    what kind of an example I set for him!
    
    Good luck

    My son's pedi recommended cereal at 3 months. I actually started it at
    3  weeks in his night bottle (1/2 teaspoon and this is where we
    introduced the bottle for the first time). My doctor told me there 
    was no need to put it in his bottle but with going back to work in 
    another 3 weeks I wasn't taking any chances with him not sleeping 
    through the night. 
    
    I started my son on a "bowl" of cereal at 3 months. 
    After about 2 weeks on straight cereal (and knowing what it tasted like
    myself) I started adding a little apple sauce to make it not taste like
    wallpaper paste. From there I added in the order of the first reply. 
    
    Every doctor, every book, every child and every parent is different.
    Take all into consideration and do what you and your child are
    comfortable with.
    
    Watch out for strained peas flying!! Just about the time they learn to
    make "raspberries".
    
    Andrea                                              

    I don't want to start a whole new topic, so I figured this would
    be the best place to ask a few questions.  My son will be 4 months
    old on Tuesday.  He has his 4 month check-up on Monday.  I have
    been feeding him cereal for about a month now and started him on
    fruits about 2 weeks ago (Applesauce, pears, peaches and bananas.
    I even gave him prunes once because I bought them by mistake and
    he didn't have a bad reaction to them, in fact, he liked them.).
    My son's doctor (she's not a pediatrician, she's a family practitioner)
    has not told me to start solids yet, I started them on my own because
    my son is over 13 lbs., would drink more than 32 oz. of formula
    a day if he didn't eat cereal, and was constantly hungry.  My question
    is, what if the doctor is upset with the fact that I've been feeding
    him cereal?  Is there any harm in feeding him cereal and fruit at
    this age.  Most books that I've read said that it was o.k. to start
    them on cereal between 4 - 6 months.  How do I tell the doctor that
    I'm not about to stop giving him cereal now?
    
    Lori B.

    Lori,
    
    I'd have a *REAL* problem with a doctor who told me to stop feeding my
    child something that I thought he was developmentally ready for
    (i.e. not causing tummy problems), needed (i.e. he was hungry all 
    the time otherwise), and was good for him (i.e. not empty calories..
    chocolate or something)  just because it was a month or two earlier 
    than the "average".    I wouldn't worry about what to tell the doctor,
    I'd find a new one!!   But, then again, maybe he/she won't have the
    reaction you expect him/her to.
    
    Carol
    

    Lori,
    
    As my pediatrician said to me once, "I am trained as a doctor.  I am
    here to advise you, not tell you what to do.  What you do is your
    choice, but I will be obligated to inform you of your choices and let
    you know if I feel your choices will be harmful."  I, too, began to
    feed my youngest son solids earlier than they suggested, but that was
    because of his constant hunger.  With my first, they said 12 months
    for solids.  I thought that was ridiculous, so I started them at 6
    months.  With my second (less than two years later), they said 6-9
    months, but we started on cereal at 10 weeks (very fluid-y fed from a
    bottle) for our sanity sake!  He was hungry and colicy.
    
    Don't allow the doctor to bully you into thinking you are wrong.  He
    may surprise you anyway, and not say anything.  But you should inform
    them of your baby's habits so they can make the best decisions for you
    and your baby on future issues.
    
    -sandy
    

    
    	Here's another question on the same note.  My son will be 5
    	months on Saturday.  I've been feeding him cereal and rice, mixed
    	with fruit for about a month now.  He's had no reactions, but he's
    	really not into eating it.  Once he gets up, he's starving and
    	wants that bottle....so he won't have anything to do with cereal.
    	He seems to take it ok at lunch, so my daycare person tells me. 
    	Again though, by the time I try to give it to him before he goes
    	to bed...he's just to tired to eat it!  He has a pretty hearty
    	appetite for formula, he goes through at least 52 ounces a day..
    
    	Question is, how can I get him to like eating it?  I've mixed
    	fruit, etc.  Also, when should I start feeding him vegies?  He
    	just started to get apple juice cut with water?
    
    	Ellen
    

    52 ozs?????  IMO, that's way tooooooo much formula for one day.  My
    pedi said not to exceed 32 ozs. 'cause more than that was too much
    (something) for his system.  (sodium?  minerals?  can't remember).
    
    I would just keep trying the cereal, fruits, maybe some yellow veggies,
     etc.  He'll eventually get used to it.  I think kids are programmed
    somehow to just consume milk, and when you start giving them this other
    stuff (food), they don't understand why they should eat it :-)
    

    Is 52 oz a typo???   Wow, that's an awful lot!!   
    
    I think that you clearly pointed to the source of the problem.
    Several of the baby books I've read suggest trying the solids 
    when the baby is in a good mood and not overly hungry.   Or an
    alternative, is to feed 1/2 the bottle to stave off the hunger
    then try the solids and finish up with the bottle as desired.
    
    It can take awhile to get used to the solids.   Good luck! carol

    As we all know, babies are ready for things at different times.  Here
    are the considerations for solids, apart from age:
    
    -Babies are born only with the sucking reflex where their tongue is
    thrust forward.  It's sometimes advised to put a small amount of food
    on a spoon and see if the baby pushes their tongue forward (spitting
    out the food) or pulls it inward (to enjoy and swallow) as a readiness
    test.
    -So it's not a struggle, wait till they show an interest in food.  The
    signals are *very* clear but they may not show up even at six months or
    eight months.  Respect their pace - the same way you would treat walking
    or talking.
    -It is much easier to feed a baby who is developmentally ready to hold
    a spoon or who can grasp chunks of things and feed themselves.
    
    The earlier a food other than breastmilk is introduced, the more likely
    an allergic reaction.  That doesn't mean lots of babies don't eat other
    foods early on in life, but it means an allergic reaction is
    statistically more likely.  Since sensitivities can show up as hard to
    track symptoms such as behavior changes I believe that erring on the
    late side can be beneficial.
    
    =ss

    ellen,
    
    Try feeding the baby at regular times during the day - feed cereals
    mixed with formula and a little fruit on the side (or mixed in), but
    try to get a schedule going.  If you feed your baby the same time each
    day they will come to expect the solids before the liquid.  You may be
    surprised to see the amount of formula intake lessen.
    
    -sandy
    

    I have a 4 month old baby boy and his pediatrician recomends to start
    feeding the baby some cereal first, (never to mix it in the bottle, but
    instead feed him by the spoon - Baby is ready to eat cereal if he/she
    can eat it off a spoon). The second type of food to be introduced to 
    the baby, should be vegetables, so that they start having good eating
    habits. The last type of foods should be fruits. From all the previous
    replies, I get the impression that the second type of foods you have
    introduced your babies to are0 fruits. Is this true??
       My son, started having cereal when he was 3 months old. Also he
    drinks 48 ounces of formula/day (Enfamil with Iron), he weighs now
    16lbs 10 ounces. I will be starting vegetables this weekend. 
       Please keep in mind that every child is different and that opinions
    vary amongst pediatricians.
    
       Marylou 
    

    re: .11
    
    I have also heard/read that the order of solids should be cereal,
    vegetables, meats, then fruits.   I guess the idea is that once
    baby has tasted the sweetness of fruits, he/she might balk at the
    relatively unsweet flavor of vegetables.   

    Well, I knew that all babies are different, but it seems that all
    doctors are different too!
    
    FWIW - my doctor said (and I have read elsewhere) that starting solid
    foods before 4 months can cause gut and skin allergies in later life. 
    At first babies' intestines can only cope with digesting milk, so this
    is all they should have for the first four months.  If solids are
    introduced too early, their bodies can't cope with them and it can put
    a strain on their immature kidneys.  Personally, I can't believe that 
    there is anything "magic" about 4 months - I think, like all aspects
    of development, some babies will be ready sooner and some later. 
    
    I had  also heard that you shouldn't put cereal in bottles of formula 
    because it's like "force feeding" them something that they may not want 
    or need.  (although I'm not too sure about the logic there).  
    
    The order for introdcing food that I was told was 1) rice cereal 
    2)strained fruits 3)strained veggies (but not all fruits and veggies 
    are suitable 4)white meats 5)red meats.  Also no meats and no wheat 
    protein before 6 months.
    
    I was also told that there is no reason to start solids at 4 months if 
    your baby appears quite happy with just milk, but you should start 
    before 6 months because after that, the baby might find it difficult to 
    adjust to accepting food from a spoon.    
                                             
    But I think that the golden rule about this and any aspect of childcare 
    is to weigh up all the advice and information and then do what feel is 
    right for your child under the circumstances (gosh - that's MUCH easier 
    said than done!)
    
    - Janet
                                                            

    The reason a lot of pedis suggest starting fruits after cereals is
    because babies like the taste.  I always thought the idea was to make
    babies enthusiastic about food.  James ate strained vegetables like
    they were going out of style but he won't touch regular veggies -- 
    hasn't eaten them for a year.  I'm serious!!  He does eat fruit,
    though, and takes juice and a multivitamin, so I'm not going to fight
    about it.
    
    I think the bottom line is, you have to "go by the baby," not by the
    book (or doctor, or mother, or mother-in-law, etc., etc.....)

>    
>    I think the bottom line is, you have to "go by the baby," not by the
>    book (or doctor, or mother, or mother-in-law, etc., etc.....)

Amen!

Michael would only eat vegetables until he was about 7 months old.  Well,
that's not quite true; we mixed a little fruit into his cereal so he'd get
some, but he wouldn't touch fruit unless it was disguised.  Banana was the
very last fruit he learned to like, too -- you'd think that would be one of
the first since it's not acid-y tasting at all.  And he was 9 months old
before he'd drink fruit juice -- now he drinks it diluted half and half
with water.  He still prefers his veggies to fruits, and creamed spinach is
just about his favorite! 

Steve

    Well, I took Shane to his doctor last week and she was very pleased
    with him.  I told her that I've been feeding him cereal and fruit
    and she said, "Fine, start giving him vegatables too".  Boy was
    I surprised, I thought for sure she would flip out about me giving
    him cereal and fruit because at his two month visit she said nothing
    but formula until he was 6 months old.  She told me he needed the
    cereal and fruits and vegetables now because he demanded more than
    32oz of formula a day.  He's also a big boy (not fat), 24 3/4" long
    and 14 lbs. 7 oz.  She said he was in the 50th percentile for both
    height and weight.  So I guess I had nothing to worry about.
    
    Lori B.
    
    P.S.  I started giving him vegatables after I started fruit with
    no problem.

    Here are instructions for making your own baby cereal.  I wanted to
    save money and provide a whole-grain food for our daughter.  We still
    use the instant stuff when we go out.
    
    1.  In food processor, grind brown rice or whole (eg Quaker) oats to a
    powder.  They store well in the cans from formula mix.  I haven't yet
    tried barley but directions should be almost the same.
    
    2.  Microwave: In a bowl, combine two parts water to one part cereal. 
    Cook, uncovered for approximately 20 seconds.  Stir well.  Repeat until
    it is thick and hot.
        Stovetop:  Mix water and cereal in a small saucepan.  Bring to a
    simmer over medium heat, lower heat, and stir constantly until thick.
    
    3.  Dilute with formula or milk to consistency of thick cream. 
    
    4.  You can store the cooked paste in the refrigerator and add the
    formula when you want to serve it.
    
    I also add roasted, ground sesame for added flavor and nutrition. 
    NOTE:  To do this, buy the brown-color, whole-grain sesame at the
    health food store.  You can buy it in bags of about a pound.  This is
    also delicious for adults on buttered toast or on oatmeal.  To prepare:
    
    1.  Pour a thin layer of sesame seeds into an iron (or other heavy)
    frying pan.
    
    2.  Heat pan to medium.  When a vapor rises from seeds and you can
    smell them, shake well or stir until they are slightly, evenly,
    browned.
    
    3.  Pour seeds into blender or food processor and grind to a coarse
    powder.  
    
    4.  They will keep about a few days at room temperature in a tightly sealed
    container, or longer in refrigrator.
    
    In Japan, this is called gomasio, when mixed with salt, and served on
    brown rice.
    
    Laura 

    Laura,
    
    Any idea if the toasted sesame seeds will turn to "butter" if I
    continue to process (past the powder stage)?  I know nuts will do this,
    but curious about the sesame seeds.  Seems like sesame butter would be
    great on toast!
    
    Sarah
    

Tahini is just ground up sesame seeds.  It's more liquidy than peanut butter,
and I don't think the seeds are toasted.

    Never tried to make tahini.  I always buy it, preferably in the can
    from Israel (DeMoulas Marketbasket).  I don't think blending the seeds
    longer would work.  
    
    L

    I believe that toasting will drive out the oils and other
    moisture needed to make nut or seed butter.
    
    Bonnie

    Hi,
    
    I need some advice on feeding. My son is 8 1/2 months old and has
    been eating cereal and baby food for a while now. His schedule:
    
    Breakfast    Cereal and a jar of fruit.
    10:30        6 oz of formula
    1:30-2:00    Veggies and formula
    4:00	 Apple juice
    6:00	 Cereal and a jar of fruit.
    
    My husband and I are wondering when to add "people" food, and if we
    should be introducing meats. We tried giving him ground turkey 
    yesterday with his veggies and all we got out of it was him throwing
    it up along with the veggies. I don't know if it was because of the
    turkey or not.
    
    When do you stop giving a baby jarred baby food? Any help would
    be appreciated.
    
    Sheila
    

    We started giving our daughter "finger foods" by about 5 months of age. 
    We gave her zwieback toast, biter biscuits, dry cereal (like cheerios),
    and crackers.  Gradually she got used to the more solid types of food. 
    Once she could handle these foods, we added cut up banana, green beans,
    etc.  
    
    We continued to feed her the strained foods at all meals and gradually 
    added more foods that she could feed herself.  At ten months she could 
    feed herself most food with her fingers, and we would spoon feed yogurt,
    etc.  
    
    Try adding a few things gradually.
    
    Good luck!

    I thinkk 8 1/2 months is old enough to start people food.  Try fruits
    and veggies that can be gummed easily.  Does he have any teeth by the
    way?  
    
    I started with bananas, cheerios, peas and cooked carrots, things that
    really go mushy when chewed for awhile.  When he's a bit older you can
    try different kinds of pasta, with some sauce eventually.  Looking
    back, I believe my youngest was off of jarred food and eating table
    food by 12 or 13 months.
    
    He didn't like meat early on either, unless it was mixed into something
    else like spagetti sauce.  
    

    Yes, he has his two bottom teeth. I tried Cheerios last night.
    He seemed to like them. He kind of gummed them with a chewing 
    motion. But you have to put them to his mouth for him. If they
    are on his tray, he just looks at them, picks them up, turns them
    around in his hands and then drops them again. He can't figure out
    that you can eat them. 
    
    In a way it's good that he doesn't automatically put everything in
    his mouth. He's the type that has to check it out completely first!
    
    He looked real cute eating them. Thanks for the suggestions!!
    
    Sheila
    

    We're going through this with Russell, who will be 9 months at the end
    of the week.  When I started meats about a month ago, I would let him
    try a spoon full or 2 plain.  He usually didn't like the taste of plain
    meat, but would eat it when mixed with his favorite veggie.  Ham was
    the only meat he would eat plain.  I also slowly tried some of the 2nd
    stage food, like Veggie Chicken & Rice.  He seems to like those better.
    
    I also give him cherrios, zwiback, crackers & grahm crackers.  It took
    a few tries before he got the idea to put the stuff in his mouth, but
    everything Russell picks up winds up in his mouth sooner or later.  He
    will also munch on soft pieces of eggo waffles and pancakes.  
    
    I've also given him small pieces of american & swiss chesse which he
    LOVES.  The american cheese gets too mushy for him to pick up, but he
    loves eating it off of my finger.  Ricotta cheese has gone over well
    too.  The yogurt had mixed results.  I'm not sure he liked the flavor. 
    
    Hope this helps......
    
    marianne

    
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the strained meats and "dinners";
    there's nothing special about them that makes them any better than
    the food off your table.   I wouldn't eat the meats or dinners myself,
    so couldn't ask my son to do so...
    
    At the age under discussion here, I'd recommend adding table foods to 
    the usual meals, gradually cutting back on the baby food as the table 
    food consumption increases.  In addition to starting table foods, I
    think it's a  good idea to let them start to feed themselves at this
    age.  Sure, it's messy, but I think it helps alot in the long run.
    
    Some of my son's favorites at this age have already been mentioned.
    Others included: baked beans, rice, baby whole carrots, cottage 
    cheese, crumbled ground beef, etc.   Jason was kind of slow in
    developing a taste for beef, but he had plenty of other protein sources
    so I tried not to sweat it.  (Of course, this week, all he wants is
    meat, nothing else, oh well!)
    
    Carol

    David's 20 months, almost, and still doesn't like meat.  
    
    There are many people who go through their entire lives without
    eating any meat, so I'm not too worried -- he gets enough protein 
    in the milk products, beans, brown rice etc. that he eats all the
    time.  If he gets a bit older and still doesn't like meat, I'll do
    a bit more research into vegetarian diets just to make sure
    there's enough protein . . .
    
    --bonnie

    
    RE: .28
    
    Not to rathole, but last week's Newsweek cover story was on the
    American diet.   One of the main points of the article was that,
    as Americans, we eat way too much meat.   There was an emphasis
    that meat should not be the "feature" of the meal, but that 
    vegetables, fruits, and whole grains should be.  Interesting
    reading about rearranging the long-established "BASIC 4" food
    groups.
    
    FWIW,
    Carol

FWIW, which may be nothing, I had a coupon for "buy one get one free"
on "Nature's Harvest" baby food, good home grown best for baby stuff.
Naturally, I sucumbed.  I bought the oatmeal/banana/pear combo, figured
it sounded GOOOOOD!  Well, I thought I'd throw up from the smell!
Rachel didn't seem to mind, but my tummy turned every time she took
the bottle out of her mouth! (I cheat and give her food in a bottle)