Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I think that every parent has faced the "should Mommy work or stay home
    with the kid(s)?" dilemma at least once, so please don't think that
    you're alone with this problem.
    
    I knew when I was pregnant that I would go back to work after my
    daughter was born. But when zero hour approached, I PANICKED, because I
    just refused to believe that there was anyone out there who would/could
    give my child the care that she needed. Well, I cried, screamed,
    pleaded with my husband to agree that I could stay home. And he was the
    one who came up with the best idea--go back to work and quit if things
    didn't work out.
    
    Well, to make a long story short, I went back and my daughter went to
    home daycare. IMHO, she has THRIVED in this situation and is much more
    confident, independent, and overall adjusted than she would be had I
    stayed home with her (she's 2 1/2 now). Now that
    doesn't mean that a child whose mother stays home won't do as well as
    those in daycare. It is that, in OUR situation, being in daycare gives
    my daughter exposure to other children and people, and different types
    of stimuli than she can get at home. And for me, I found that I really
    needed to work in order to be happiest (although I would prefer part-time
    work rather than full-time work, should the option arise).
    
    All of this may be different for you in that you will feel a strong
    pull toward staying home and not staying at work. But I believe you
    really can't make the right decision for you, the baby, and your family
    until the baby is here and you really "feel" what you are facing.
    
    BTW, I have never felt uncomfortable with the level of care that my
    daughter's daycare provider gives. My daughter knows the difference
    between her and Mommy.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Nancy-

    I doubt that there are many - if any - prospective parents who _don't_
    worry about daycare, if they were raised in a "traditional" structure
    and haven't been exposed to other arrangements much.  I remember
    feeling rather renchingly uneasy when first starting a kid at homecare,
    and then again two years later when starting at a pre-school.  But,
    like most people in this situation, I have ended up concluding that my
    kids have in fact thrived with roughly full-time daycare starting at
    age 3 months, and in a number of respects have had better experiences
    than they would have had with a stay-at-home parent.  Certainly there
    has been no weakening of parent-child bonds.  The real positive side of
    daycare has been discussed at length in different versions of Parenting. 
    In over a dozen cumulative years of homecare, pre-school and extended
    day experience, I've gotten to know dozens of working-parent families. 
    Almost all of these have experienced some conflicts between job and
    family obligations, but none I can remember have felt the daycare
    experience was negative for their kids, or that they would have rather
    had a full time homemaker parent.  Let me add that I've also known
    happy, fulfilled stay-at-home parents of box sexes, too.
    
    In this case, it sounds like the husband needs some exposure and
    reassurance ahead of time.  He (really the two of you) should spend
    some time visiting and talking with families that use different daycare
    arrangements.  Also, spend an hour or two with a homecare provider, and
    visiting a pre-school or two.  With a bit of explanation I'm sure you
    could find providers who would be glad to do this, even though there
    was no immediate enrollment prospect, just to give you better
    perspective on the alternatives.  If you don't know working parent
    families to talk to in your neighborhood, I imagine we can locate some
    near by through this notesfile.
    
    		- Bruce

    We're playing with that question, too.  But we do know that, if one of
    us (better for me, financially) stays home, the child will go to a
    "play group" of some sort, anyway.  In talking to others, we've found
    that the child seems more well developed by having other children with
    which to interact.
    
    I guess you may try having your husband look at it from a perspective
    of the overall well-being of your child, rather than his (what it
    sounds like) old fashioned attitudes.
    
    -d

    Just as an aside and I don't know if this will help much, but the idea
    of a stay-at-home parent is a rather recent (50s) phenomenon. My
    grandmother was a "working" mother. And my husband was very much
    convinced that it was best that I (again I had no choice but to return
    to work) was a working mother, his mother worked while he was growing
    up.
    
    It wasn't until after our baby was born that he began to think that one
    of us should stay home and raise our child. He was very much involved
    in the selection of our daycare provider and in our daughters  care to 
    this day.
    
    As for your situation of trying to put your husband's mind at ease
    before you conceive, I have no advise. My husband and I talk about
    things as much as we need to to both feel comfortable. Maybe you could
    sit down together and do a financial forecast and play through all the
    options. We still get together on this topic and do an evaluation of
    how we are both feeling as far as how satisfied we are with our home
    life. Recently my husband hired a cleaning person. This has made him
    much more relaxed and we are able to enjoy each other more on the week
    nights and on weekends we do other things together. Even though this is
    a financial sacrifice for us, its worth it.
    
    Good Luck

    Is there any chance of you and/or your husband working out part-time or
    flexible work schedules?  Even if you need two full-time salaries,
    maybe you could each work four 10-hour days, so the child is in daycare
    only three days, instead of five.  That might make him feel better and
    give each of you some special time alone with the child.
    
    -Tracy
    

Well, if it is any consolation, and I think most noters here will agree, if
we all put off having kids becasue of financial worries, then we'd have a
population problem ... not overpopulation, but UNDERpopulation! :-)

My wife and I are one of the lucky ones ... we have managed on one income,
but then our lifestyle certainly is not like most ... we moved to Canada from
England, where it was a struggle at times to make ends meet.  So, our lifestyle
lies somewhere in the middle and that's how we afford to live.

Mind you, I say lucky ... that's not totally true either ... yes we've managed
on one income, but there have been some high priced penalties ... my wife has
looked after our kids and at times felt very alone doing so because of the
work pressures on me ... so much so that she ended up depressed several times
and in hospital twice.  She would have benefited enormously to have been able
to get out of the house occasionaly, be it to work or for pleasure.

She is now contemplating working and is about to start looking for work, but
having been out of the job market so long, it isn't going to be easy.

We look back on generations gone by and say that our parents managed with
mother at home ... well, I'm certain that our mothers would not have
struggled just like us if they were bringing up their children today.

If mother is at home full time, then you must be able to do more than
just survive on one income, there must be income spare so that mum can
still maintain a life of her own that involves more than just children
and essential chores.  That's hard to do.  The other extreme is kids in
full time day-care and mum working ...   And then there are the million and
one compromises.

IMHO, the more time parents spend out of the home not looking after the
children, then the more important "quality time" (hate the term but for 
want of a better one) becomes.

What all this rambling boils down to is that the old idea of mum at home
is not necessarily the best answer for all families and can in fact be a
poor answer;  that a family with both parents working can produce a better
result for everyone in the family given the overall financial situation;
and that you can use finances to delay having a baby forever if you chose to.

Good luck in your choice ...

Stuart

    Something Pat has mentioned to me is that the baby magazines she reads
    frequently have feature articles about working moms vs. stay-at-home
    moms.  Scads of studies have been done over the last few years, and
    they *all* show that children do not suffer from spending their days
    with a caregiver while both parents work.  Styles of parenting as well
    as many other factors determine how good a start a child gets in life,
    but having a parent at home all day is virtually irrelevant to how that
    child ultimately turns out.  There are good and bad parents; some of
    them both work and some of them live on one income.
    
    I'd suggest you start looking at the grocery store or drug store at
    magazines like Parents, Baby Talk, etc.  It won't take long to find one
    with such an article; in fact you'll probably be able to find several. 
    Perhaps the factual data resulting from the studies that have been done
    will help change your husband's mind.
    
    Steve

    
    	I don't think I can add much to this except to suggest that it's
    going to be easier to give up a job you don't want rather than getting
    one you do want.
    	Regardless of what decisions you make, you'll find people arguing
    both sides. Go with what feels best for you.
    
    		Ian G.

because it's important to make sure you have your finger on the real issue.  
It's entirely possible that (consciously or subconsciously) that he is not 
entirely sold on the idea of becoming a father, and daycare is the issue on 
which he's chosen to base his ambivalence.  To be honest, I was somewhat 
ambivalent when my wife was pregnant with #1 -- right up till we went to the 
hospital, at which point the ambivalence went away.  Also, I think it's very 
difficult, perhaps impossible, for even the most sensitive of men to 
understand how powerful some women's urge to have children can be.  

The daycare issue may also be the real issue.  If so, then it's important to 
understand where the view comes from.  If it's theoretical, or because that's 
what he expects, or because that's the way the HE was brought up, then all of 
the previous notes have very useful suggestions.  But some people hold to a 
"kid should be raised by at-home parent" with an almost religious fervor (in 
fact for some, the belief IS based on religion), and for them all the happy 
two income families in the world won't do any good.  Or perhaps it's a mix of 
both.

If it IS a strongly held belief, then I think you need to evaluate how 
important having a child is to YOU, and what sacrifices YOU are willing to 
make.  Then HE needs to determine what sacrifices HE is willing to make.  
Possibly a combination of you doing part time work when he isn't working, or 
his having a part time second job, combined with some sacrifices in lifestyle. 
We  have friends for whom the sacrifice meant that the husband works long 
hours, but not so long that he is a stranger to his kids, and who have 
essentially sacrificed the thought of owning a home, at least for several 
years.

Don't overlook the possibility of some sort of counseling.  It's not just for 
couples who are one step short of filing for divorce.  Perhaps some skilled 
person could help you get ALL the issues out on the table, and help you 
discuss them.  Don't underestimate the importance of this issue.  For many 
couples, it is the most critical issue they ever face.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Clay

   re: .3  "old fashioned attitudes"
   
   I usually don't get into discussions like this, but I must take
   issue with your comments - or at least how I read them.
   
   While it may be true that the "stay-at-home mom" model is old
   fashioned, that does not make it a bad idea.  I disagree with the
   school of thought that says that "old fashioned" should
   automatically be replace by modern or "enlightened".  Yes,
   sometimes it should be, but when I read your remark, I got the
   impression that you thought there was something wrong with
   old-fashioned.

   Many of us grew up with stay-at-home moms and no play groups, and
   many of us are fairly normal adults (well, sort of!).
   
   re: .0 - remember, free advise is worth every penny, and as well
   meaning as everybody is, you and your husband must live with your
   decisions, not us or anybody else.  Go with what is right for your
   situation.
   
   Peace,
   
   - Tom

    Looks like you said it yourself.  "stay at home moms" *is* an old
    fshioned idea.  I didn't say it was a bad idea.  
    
    As liberal as I always say I am, I'm finding myself leaning more and
    more towards the conservative, "old fashioned" ideals myself.  I happen to
    like them.  It just seemed that the woman's husband leaned towards this
    "old fashioned" idea about mom being home.  My only comment against
    that was not that it was bad, just that studies (and real people's
    opinions) are showing that children may be better developed by
    interacting with other, non-family children, on a regular basis.  Mind
    you, I don't necessarily hear anyone saying that being with mom all day
    is hazardous to their health, either!  ;-)
    
    But, what do I know?  I was the child of an "old fashioned" mom.  I
    used to wish I had lots of other kids to play with, since there were
    only two of us in the neighborhood.  Mom (and dad) can provide lots of
    fun and knowledge, etc. etc.  But, children of all ages still need some
    peer support, in my opinion, and I want my kids to have that
    opportunity, whether or not I stay home.  
    
    -d

   re: .11
<                            -< keep reading... ;-) >-
<
<    .. fun and knowledge, etc. etc.  But, children of all ages still
<   need some peer support, in my opinion, and I want my kids to have
<   that opportunity, whether or not I stay home.  

   Point well taken.  Thanks for clarifying that... :-)
   
   - Tom
   

    re .11
    >>> ...are showing that children may be better developed by
    >>>    interacting with other, non-family children, on a regular basis. 
    
    Staying home with your children doesn't necessarily mean your children
    won't see any other children.  Nancy stays home, but we still send our
    son Tobias (age 4&1/2) to nursery school and other activities.
    
    FLAME ON
    Personally, I think this "old fashioned" idea has a lot of merit. I'm
    finding myself somewhat intolerant of "parents" who act as if their
    children are a burden and shove them in school so they can pursue
    careers. In my opinion there's something wrong with a society that
    values money, status, and career above family relationships and the
    love and laughter of children. I wonder what these children are
    learning about respect for people.  (Yes, I know there are many couples
    who, because of economic difficulties, are forced to both work just to
    make ends meet.  This says even more about our society.)
    But enough ranting, it's time to
    FLAME OFF
    
    Peace,
      Rich
    

	Please keep your cool, people.

	Remember that there is no one RIGHT way and only the people involved in 
the decision know all the facts.

	Please avoid using value laden phrases such as "old-fashioned" and
"valuing career above the love of children".

	
	Thanks!

	Tracey 
	Parenting co-mod

Well, if our family had been "old fashioned" we could not have eaten, nor
would we have had a roof over our heads.  My mom worked from the time I
got into kindergarten until about 3 years ago and I'm the youngest at age
37.  My dad also worked.

    I'd like to add a few points here, if I may.
    
    When I became pregnant with AJ it was a given that I would stop work
    "for a while", it turned out to be more like 16 or 18 months!  This
    primarily due to his medical problems from birth and frequent
    hospitalizations.  I returned to work and still seems that hardly a
    week, sometimes a day, go by without me feeling guilty for working and
    letting someone else raise him.  I settle this argument with myself by
    realizing that when AJ started in daycare he was clingy and very shy,
    he has florished and is outgoing, tries just about anything and
    interacts with other children in a wonderful way.
    
    About the point from the person in Canada, I too felt depressed from
    being home, with no one in the neigborhood, kind of isolated.  There
    were days when I actually looked forward to taking AJ to a clinic
    appointment so I could get out of the house.  I frequently called a
    friend who was also "inbetween" jobs, she knew why...I HAD to talk to a
    grown-up!  I also became a regular fixture at the Mall, just to get out
    and among people.  My waistline also suffered as a result.
    
    As an alternative to working full time, I looked into starting a
    daycare center at home, and decided it wasn't for me.  I love my son
    dearly, but there are days when even he is too much, let alone adding
    another 4 or 5 other toddlers.  Plus the realization that with daycare
    I'd be committed to staying at home at least 10 hours a day, 5 days a
    week.
    
    I work out of financial necessity, but when I was at home we made ends
    meet because we HAD to, then even McDonalds was a big night out (still
    is for that matter).  I think we appreciate the small things more now. 
    Yes, we probably could have had a bigger or better home if we wern't 
    supporting our son but I have never had any regrets about having the most 
    wonderful thing in our life!
    
    I am probably married to the biggest chauvanist in the world, but now his 
    favorite phrase is "woman's place is in the home, she should go there 
    directly after work!"
    
    Hope your decision is made easier!
    Lyn
    

    What we did, was to work funny hours.  I worked 6 to 12, my husband
    from 12 to 6, and each of us caught 2 hours at home with Nathan.  This
    ended up driving us crazy by the time Nathan was 6 months old, when I
    went to 6 to 2, and Paul went from 10 to 6, with 4 hours day care.  Now
    that Nathan is 15 months, he is in daycare 6 hours a day, doing really
    well, and we are reasonaby happy.  This has been a process that has
    evolved weekly; Nathan is in his second home daycare (first had a
    smoker, which I am against), and she works with us to make this work.  
    
    We are pleased, so far!
    
    Adrienne