Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Well,  I have to say that I haven't had much luck with time-out
    methods.   When my daughter doesn't want to do something I ask her
    to do, she asks to go time-out.  She would prefer to go to her room
    or sit on the couch or chair than to eat her supper, pick up her
    toys or whatever it is she doesn't want to do.  
    
    She is 3.5 years old and very, very stubborn with a mind of her
    own.  We are having a devil of a time getting her to eat her supper
    at night or breakfast in the morning.  (Sshe eats everything that
    I put in her lunch box for lunch)  Last night I had made supper,
    and right up until we told her to come to the supper table, she
    was playing quietly with no problems.  The moment we told her supper
    was ready, she started screaming 'I go night night', or 'I sit on
    couch for time-out'.  We eventually put her to bed without supper
    and she slept all night.  Its soooo frustrating.   This morning
    for breakfast, I fixed her "peaches and cream oatmeal".  At first
    she didn't want to try it, but I told her she was going to sit 
    there until she at least tried it.  Well after 30 minutes of sitting
    there, she finally tried it (stone cold) and promptly started gagging
    and acting like she was going to vomit.  Then I felt really guilty
    for making her try it.   So this happens pretty often at supper
    and breakfast and timeouts just don't do any good.    Any ideas?
    
    Sarah

    Sarah,
    
    My advice is to do yourself and your daughter a huge favor and don't
    make food a discipline issue!  Get out of it altogether!
    
    Eating is one area where you can really mess a person up and you can
    afford to get right out of the fight, at this point.
    
    Offer her healthy food that she likes, let her know when other food
    will be available (maybe no more tonight, or nothing other than X after
    dinner is cleared) and let her decide what to eat.
    
    Let her know what is acceptable behavior at dinnertime: "we stay at the
    table until everyone is done" or "when you're done eating you can
    leave" or "you stay until you're excused", but don't connect it to how
    much or what she eats.
    
    It may take a while for her to get that she's really in charge of
    feeding herself, but this WILL work!  It's harder on the parents to
    break the pattern.  At that age (and others around it), my kids had
    huge swings in the amount of food they ate at dinner from day to day
    and week to week.  It's still hard to let go of it.
    
    If it helps, think of food like water - it's not that different.  We
    offer kids water (or other drinks), but we don't tell them when to
    drink more of it or to go back to the water fountain and it works out
    fine, they (and we) drink to our thirst.  Milk doesn't count - we
    treat that like a food. 
    
    If this sounds a bit strong, it's because I've seen the results of food
    becoming a power issue - real bad.  It can become much easier for your
    and better for her, at the same time.
    
    Good luck to you,
    
    Jane 

    Yet another saying "don't worry".
    
    My mother's approach was sensible: "Here's what I made, you can
    eat it or not.   If you don't want it, and are hungry, there's
    always bread, peanut butter and jelly in the fridge.  If you don't
    want a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you aren't really hungry."
    
    Alex is a bit young (1 year) to have problems like this, but my
    method with him is similiar: there's always crackers or fruit or
    milk or juice if he's hungry; if he doesn't eat his "regular" food
    at "regular" times, we don't make a fuss--we just take it away.
    
    			-John Bishop

    Well,  I will admit that I do worry about her not eating any food. And
    I really do not want to make meal times into a battle.  But, just the
    other day,  I had fixed a good supper, and she didn't want to eat it.
    She will pick up her plate and try to throw it away out of her sight. I
    took her plate away and said OK, you don't want to eat, thats fine, sit
    there quietly until we are finished with supper.  She started throwing
    a temper tantrum screaming her head off, saying I go night night or I
    go time out on couch. Well,  I have been trying to stick to my guns and
    following through on what I tell her I expect her to do (which hasn't
    been the easiest thing to do when she is screaming her head off at the
    supper table).  She got so angry with me in this particular instance
    that she took off her shoe and threw it at me across the table.  Well,
    I spanked her for this... I pulled her chair away from the table and
    told her that she was still going to sit there until we finished
    supper.  She screamed and ranted and raved for the next 20-or so
    minutes until we finished supper. At this point, I just told her that
    until she settled herself down, she wasn't going to go anywhere.  It
    took her another good 10 - 15 minutes to settle down.  Then I let her
    get out of her chair. She then asked me for something else to eat.  She
    did not want what I had put on the supper table.  She did not even try
    it.  Now I know that everyone here says that I shouldn't make food a
    power play, but I don't feel that I'm being too hard to expect her to
    try it before asking for something else.  If she tries it and doesn't
    like it and then asks for a peanut butter/jelly sandwich, I will give
    it to her.  When I work all day and come home and have to fix a meal, I
    think its unfair to me that I should have to specially fix a special
    meal for her when she didn't even try the one that I originally gave
    her.  I'm sure that there are a lot of people in this file that will
    not agree with me on this as per the last few notes of not making food
    a power-play, but if I don't make a stand on this now, then I will
    forever be making special meals just for her.   I'm worried that my
    daughter doesn't eat enough, yes, but half the stuff that she asks for
    when she doesn't eat her supper is junk and I'm not going to give her
    junk just so that she has something in her stomach.  So, how about some
    suggestions on how to reason with her and to get her to try some of the
    meals I put on the table.  She wont eat a lot of things that are
    usually kids favorites.  She wont eat hotdogs, hamburgers, mashed
    potatoes, etc. She will eat occaisionally fries and spaghetti and her all
    time favorite will have to be pepperoni pizza and peanut butter
    sandwiches which she does eat well, but I can't give her pizza or
    peanut butter sandwiches every night of the week. She gets peanut
    butter sandwiches for lunch every day, because I know that is the only
    type of sandwich she will eat.  She wont touch soup of any kind.  I
    don't enjoy having a screaming crying child at the supper table because
    she doesn't want to eat supper, so what do I do, say fine, go into your
    room or sit on the chair in the living room and don't eat, but don't
    ask for anything else either? 
    
    What do I do....  I don't know how to handle this situation and
    if I can't find a method that works now, then I will have to put
    up with this for the rest of my life.  I don't want to do that...
    Would you??????
                 
    
    Its great that you can sit there and tell me not to make food a
    power play, but how about some suggestions on how to deal with 
    her when she is being totally unreasonable.
    
    Sarah

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Note 423.26                      Timeout Methods                        26 of 29
RDVAX::COLLIER "Bruce Collier"                       24 lines  25-OCT-1990 13:04
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    I completely agree with Jane (.25).  You almost surely need not worry
    about undernourishment, and can only lose by allowing meals to develop
    into power struggles.  I think I remember that Penelope Leach has a very
    good discussion of this topic (as of almost all parenting issues, imo).
    
    I also agree with an earlier entry that it is a mistake to view time
    out as a form of _punishment_, and the daughter here clearly
    understands this, too.  Younger kids have a very hard time exercising
    consious control over their emotional state, whether it's anger,
    excitement, jealosy, whatever . . .  They often can't break out of a
    behavior pattern by being told to or even wishing to.  They need to be
    removed from the stimulous, irritant, whatever, for long enough to
    regain control.  Regaining the control is a major benefit for them (and
    whatever adult is trying to maintain it), and should be _rewarded_. 
    Continuing a time out by some clock rule ("one minute per year of age")
    after calm is restored makes it into a punishment, rather than a
    valuable tool.
    
    As my kids get older, the occasional "time out" (GO TO YOUR ROOM!!!
    RIGHT NOW!!!!) provides a thereputic opportunity to get parental temper
    under control, as well as providing a non-violent expression of anger.
    A useful dynamic, but not really a constructive form of punishment.
    
    		- Bruce

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Note 423.28                      Timeout Methods                        28 of 29
TCC::HEFFEL "That was Zen; This is Tao."             23 lines  25-OCT-1990 14:15
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	Once again, I disagree with those who has said that time-out is not a 
discipline method.  It is and can be very effective when used correctly.

	Everything I've read, says use time-outs to stop behavior not 
try to get the kid to do something.  Thus a time-out for hitting or "talking 
back" is appropriate.  A time-out for not cleaning your room is worse than 
useless.  It helps them delay the very thing you want them to do.

	I agree with the others that you should back off on the food.  BELIEVE
ME, I know this is easier said than done.  Katie at 17 months has had her share
of the "orchid phase" (living on air) over the past few months.  It's really
tough to not want to "Try just one more bite", "Just taste this",  and so on.
I really have to bite my tongue at times. But really, she knows when she is 
hungry and when she isn't.  If she sleeps through the night that's a good 
indication that she really DOESN'T need to eat.  If you are concerned, talk to 
your pediatrician, but he/she will say what all of us have said.  I.e. Offer 
a variety of healthy foods and she eats, she eats.  If she doesn't, don't sweat 
it.

Tracey

    Hi Sarah,
    
    Is there a way to incorporate the things that you know Jessica likes
    into your regular dinner?   For example, Jason loves macaroni and
    cheese - so we have it quite a bit as our "starch" where we might have
    preferred something else (baked potatoe, etc.)   That way I'm not
    cooking something special for *just him*.   Maybe if you had pizza
    one night a week and combined it with a tossed salad and some fruit
    for you and Jim.   Or if you were having some bread or rolls with
    your normal supper, then Jessica could have pb&j made on the dinner
    bread.
    
    This works for us most of the time!   
    
    Carol

    I'd like to address your note in .6 issue by issue...I hope I can
    remember them.  (Please keep in mind, this is also from the mother of a
    3.25 year old who is an extremely picky eater.)
    
    Then temper tantrum your daughter threw at the table was a good use for 
    time-out.  Time-outs work best for aggressive behavior - temper
    tantrums, hitting, spitting, verbal aggression, etc.  Time-out helps
    you stop the behavior *immediately*, and give both parent and child a
    cooling off period.  So, when a tantrum starts you tell the child
    "Time-out for a tantrum" and get the child to the designated spot,
    carrying her if necessary.  
    
    My daughter is a good one for throwing tantrums while in time-out. 
    She once took all her clothes off and threw them off the time-out
    chair.  I just reset the timer until she regained control.  (Eventually,
    it *does* happen.)
    
    Not surprisingly, in a course I took at Children's Hospital (in Boston)
    eating problems/disorders were a very hot topic.  For all but the most
    acute eating problems, the psychologists advised (for lack of a better
    term) benign nonintervention...that is, serving healthy food at meal
    time and letting the child eat or not eat as she wishes.  (But that
    means no special meals, either.)  Young children tend to have very
    limitted tastes and trying to push variety on them before they are
    ready can be fruitless (no food pun intended).  
    
    For the parents with older children who were still eating like 3 year
    olds, they psychologists suggested rewarding kids for *trying* a food. 
    For example, "If you taste one green bean, you can stay up 15 minutes
    later tonight".  They said to set a concrete goal that you know the
    child can attain (one green bean, three pieces of meat, 1/2 ear of
    corn) and reward the child for attaining it (extra time at bedtime,
    extra story, special TV program).  If the kid doesn't eat the food, no
    reward...period.  (No nagging to eat, either.)
    
    Again, as a mother of a picky eater I know how *terribly frustrating*
    it is to make a decent meal and your kid looks at the food and slides
    under the table.  It feels almost like a personal rejection.  In most
    cases, however, it isn't.  (If it is...then that's another problem.)
    
    So...my (rather long-winded) opinion?  As said previously, don't make
    the table a battle ground.  Reward your child for what she tries and
    what she eats.  Avoid nagging, etc. around the food issue.  As one
    experienced parent wrote in PARENTING Vol. 1 - "No child ever starved
    himself to death in sight of food."  And, as my pedi told me "If it
    makes *you* feel better, give her a multi-vitamin".     
    
    Time out for aggresssion, reward for eating.
    
    Another parent of a picky 3 year old,
    LZP
    

    Hi.  I have been there, with my 19-yr. old and my 2-yr. old!
    Dinner was always a real battle with my 19-yr. old -- "time outs"
    weren't invented then, so his Dad made him stand in the corner for the
    entire mealtime if he didn't eat.  Sometimes a quick (but devastating
    to the cause) spank was used in place of standing in the corner.  It
    was a major disaster -- the parental intervention, that is.  Thank God
    he's a healthy, strapping 6-footer now, but I'd never have believed it back
    when he was 2 or 3 and refusing to eat.  What solved it for me?  The
    same old tired but *excellent* advice you've heard here -- pick your
    battles wisely; eating shouldn't be one of them!  (And don't get me
    wrong, I really do sympathize with the anguish in your note!)  I
    eliminated all his snacks and limited him to 3 squares a day with only
    water in-between.  (Based on 1963 pediatrician's advice.)  No, I didn't 
    cook him special meals -- nor did I force him to stay at the table when he
    wouldn't eat.  But I wouldn't let him have PB&J sandwiches in place of what
    I'd cooked, either!  It was very matter-of-fact "Jason, let's sit down and
    eat now.  Oh, you don't want any pork chops?  Well, we'll see you for
    breakfast then. You may leave the table."  (It sounded so simple at the 
    time that I felt like a real idiot!)  Jason starved himself pretty skinny 
    for about a week -- then, SLOWLY, SLOWLY he came around.  I couldn't
    believe it!  And, of course, I had to tell my now-ex husband "stay out of 
    it with your forceful ways!"
    
    And believe it or not, 17 years later, my baby daughter started the
    same crap!  She started it when she wouldn't go from breast to bottle
    feeding when I returned to work (she was 5 mos. old).  She'd starve all
    day at the sitters, and then nurse practically non-stop all night long.
    It was difficult, but what could I do -- she was still an infant. 
    After several months, she then flip-flopped and became a bottle junkie! 
    In fact, I've just taken her off the bottle now at age 2!  (Which, by
    the way, has *dramatically* increased her appetite!)  Not that this
    girl is small -- she just turned 2 and is 32 pounds -- but I've spent
    the first two years of her life telling her doctors "but she doesn't
    eat anything!"  At about age one, she started in on the "I don't want
    to eat behavior" -- only this time, I was smarter.  I took the "ok, no
    big deal -- guess you'll just eat when you're ready".  (But only after
    worrying about it for months, and writing various notes files, etc.!)
    
    Now, our mealtimes are (usually) smooth -- I make sure she doesn't over-
    snack between meals, she's off the bottle, and I let her watch Sesame Street
    or somesuch while she sits in her high chair and eats.  At the first
    sign that she's through, she's outta there!  On holidays, etc.,we may all
    eat together at the table, and although that's fun, she doesn't have
    the patience or outlook to do that very often!  And for sure, on some
    days she eats a whole lot less than on others!
    
    You asked for tips on "reasoning with a 3-yr. old".  That made me
    smile....I can't fathom "reasoning" with my 2-yr. old -- for things she
    really is dead-set against (such as diaper changes, nose cleaning, nail
    clipping, hair shampooing, medicine-taking -- all those battles) --
    there's no reasoning -- I either do it via distraction, ticking &
    kissing, or sheer force (in that order).  
    
    So *force* yourself to lighten up, Mom.  You'll have plenty of bigger
    battles ahead.  There's some good advice written in previous responses. 
    But what I'll never forget is when the pediatrician in 1963 told me:
    "Starve him out".  Three simple words that worked, in a very
    non-violent, non-threatening way.
    
    Good luck and let us know how you're doing.
    
    Evelyn
    

Sarah,
    You didn't say what time you have dinner, but when I read your description
of the meal a couple of replies back, what immediately came to mind for me
was "That girl sounds tired!".  Maybe she's just too tired to behave well
at your meal time?  A while ago (parenting_v2, probably) there was a
discussion of meals for kids, and several people mentioned feeding the younger
kids an early supper, made up from the previous day's supper that the adults
had.  I know that when my almost-3-year-old son gets tired, he's impossible
to handle, and if you can separate out "tired kid" problems from mealtime
problems, maybe the meals will become smoother.  I don't know whether your
situation (work schedule, etc.) would allow for giving her an earlier dinner,
but it might be worth a try.

			cheryl

    Well,  I had thought of that too.  I know that she doesn't take
    a nap a daycare most of the time.  By the time we pick her up from
    daycare (5:15-5:30) we still have a 45 minute ride home, which put
    supper around 6:45-7:00.  I guess if the moment I walked in the
    door I gave her something to eat, while fixing our dinner maybe
    the battles wouldn't be so intense.  I know that tonight, my husband
    had some things he was doing, so I picked my daughter up and went
    to Mcdonalds and she ate fries and a few bites of her hamburger
    with no problem.  But by the time, I got home she was really 
    cranky because once again she didn't take a nap at school.  So,
    maybe I will try saving something from the meal the night  before
    and just popping it into the microwave as soon as we walk into the
    door.   Although there have been times when I have put roast carrots
    and potatoes into the crockpot and put the meal on the table as
    soon as we walked in the door and it still didn't make a difference.
    She refused to eat the roast, carrots or potatoes.   Any ideas of
    some quick meals to feed to her when she gets home.
    
    Thanks a lot for the advice,  I will try to mellow out myself and
    my husband, because he is somewhat frustrated by all this too...
    
    Sarah

    My almost 3-year-old could care less about food. My husband
    was the same way, his mother forced him to eat and he always hated it.
    I grew up a member of the "clean plate club" because I was born
    "looking like a skinny chicken ready for the oven" according to my
    family. What I'd do to look like that skinny chicken now!!!
    
    What we do with some success (on some days) is tell Berk he has to try
    a bite of whatever we are eating and then he can have what he wants. He
    does ask for things like cheese, fruit, plain yogurt, chicken nuggets,
    etc so I'm not afraid of his choice of food when he is hungry. We have
    told him that he has to stay at the table through dinner and just join
    in on the conversation, he's not required to eat it all. I do usually
    give him a plate with the things I know he should eat (like a slice of
    cheese always on it, cucumber slices, etc) but we are now swinging in
    and out of the "I don't like that stage". One day he'll eat a plate of
    mushrooms and the next day I desperately trying to get every piece of
    minced mushroom off a slice of pizza (and they have x-ray vision so
    they can see under the ones hiding under the cheese as well!!).
    
    I say set up some guidelines like you must just stay at the table and
    try a bite. If you don't want to eat, you may go play in the other room
    and not disturbe us while we are eating. As a parent you need to decide
    whether the "you get nothing else" rule is appropriate for you. For my
    son it is not, he just wants a different dinner. I hate to give in to
    his cravings and do ask what he would like for dinner and see if I can
    work it into the menu or I will make him a close substitute to the real
    thing (like a hamburger instead of the spiced taco meat) if it isn't to
    much trouble.
    
    Habits do start young. The dinner table should never be a battle
    ground. We all get hungry at different times and crave different
    things, kids included!!! 
    
    I second feeding your daughter a snack as soon as you get home and it
    can actually be part of what is included in the real dinner. If she
    snubs salad, give her sliced veggies as you are assembling the salad.
    You won't be upset if she doesn't eat any veggies at the table.
    Personally, I'm not real keen in the idea of feeding my son on
    his/her own because dinner is a very "social event" for us. I need my
    son to be in the habit of sitting at the table not just to eat but to
    be social; but this is what our life style dictates (we do alot of
    entertaining, formal included, and we do eat out at places other than
    McDonald's where you have to patiently wait for food). Now just tell
    that to an active little boy!!!
    
    Hang in there!!
    Andrea_who_hopes_the_food_battles_don't_get_worse_in_the_3's!!!!

Sometimes we do what might be regarded as cooking a "special meal".  Almost 
invariably that is pasta and tomato sauce.  That's an easy thing to do, since 
you can make a whole bunch (like on a weekend), refrigerate it, and heat it, 
along with sauce from a jar, in the microwave.  Pasta, with or without tomato 
sauce, is an almost universal favorite, in my experience.

You're right, working all day, then coming home to fix a meal is a real 
burden.  My wife and I decided that if we were going to do that, then we 
were going to have things WE want, and not be held hostage to a person who 
preferred McGreaseburgers to steak.

Another thing to check on at daycare -- if you haven't already -- is what they 
do for snacks, and when.  Sometimes the afternoon snack is sufficient volume 
to take away the appetite for dinner.  If that's a problem, then you either 
have to request that your daughter not be included (a real tough thing to do) 
or try to make sure that the snack is a "good" snack.

Clay

    Certainly check on what she is getting as a late afternoon snack at
    daycare, but it sounds as if there's a long enough interval that it
    shouldn't be a problem.  It does, though, seem as if the lack of a nap
    may be a large part of the evening battles; almost all kids this age
    need a pretty good nap.  Talk it through thoroughly at daycare.
    
    I have little trouble with my boys, though I don't particularly cater
    to them, or offer alternatives.  Also, nothing but family talk during
    dinner (no TV), and they must sit (fairly) sedately through the meal.
    But I scarcely twist any arms for more eating.  I think part of the
    success/luck here came from observing a niece, who is slightly older
    than Aaron.  From age 1 to 6 or 7 she only ate about one tablespoon of
    food per week; as other noters have expressed it, one of those kids who
    can live on air.  She and her parents did much better after they
    learned to let her regulate her own intake, and she stayed healthy, and
    quite tall (though pretty skinny).  Thus I knew that kids can thrive
    almost without visible means of nutritional support.
    
    So, try to relax about it.  Give her a daily vitamin, which will at
    least help your peace of mind.  And try not to feel that she "owes it
    to you" to eat, because you labored over the meal.  And see if a decent
    nap doesn't help everyone.
    
    		- Bruce

    I have no experience with this so you the value of my suggestion 
    may be questionable.
    
    If Jessica is playing quietly until you call her to dinner and
    acts up as soon as you do, how about letting her continue to
    play while you and your husband eat?   She may just choose to
    come to the table *because* she hasn't been asked to do so....
    At the very least, you may get to eat in peace.
    
    cj/

    Sometimes David gets so hungry that he can't eat.  He's only
    aware of how miserable he feels, and anything I do sends him into
    a fury.  I haven't found any solution other than to feed him
    before he gets hungry.
    
    So maybe it would help to have a nutritious snack she can eat in
    the car on the way home. 
    
    --bonnie

    Sarah,
    
    Most of the ideas I would give are already in here, but here goes:
    
    Like David (.16), my kids sometimes get too hungry to eat!  The
    schedule they're on now is fine, but I remember hysterical evenings
    when we were on different schedules.  Snacks in the car might help, if
    you would like to stay with the later mealtime and IF this is the
    problem.  If you make it a snack that you'd OK for a meal, this takes
    the pressure off whether she eats later.
    
    As for meal ideas, my kids love "snack attack": a selection of what
    they consider to be treats: cheese cubes, crackers, raisins, fruit,
    mini marshmallows, chocolate chips, etc.  If you play it right, it can
    be a nutritious combo.
    
    You may want to think about EXACTLY what's important to you, as you
    sort all this out.  Which of these are most important to you?
    		Eating together, as a family
    		Eating in peace
    		Your daughter staying at the table until others are done
    For example, one family who valued a peaceful mealtime opted to feed
    their kids early and then the parents eat later.  It's important to me
    that we sit down together AND that we eat in peace, so the kids (3 and
    5) can leave when they are done eating.  I figure that sitting through
    my idea of a mealtime will come when they get older and I really want
    the time to talk with my husband while they play.  When it's important
    that they stay at the table (in a restaurant), we try to bring
    something to do.
    
    I hope this gets easier for you soon.  I know how hard it can be to
    work a full day (in or out of the home) and then have berserk children
    at dinner time.  The right combination of timing and snacks might do
    the trick.  Good luck.

    My working motto on the subject is this:
       
       You can lead a horse (kid) to water (the table), but you can't make
       drink (eat).
    
    I used to get all hot and bothered about my kids not eating too.  Why
    should I have to prepare a special meal for them? Why oh why won't they
    eat what I have so lovingly prepared for their little adorable rosebud
    lips?
    
    Well, I've learned.  The battle ain't worth the war.  To the basenote -
    back off, offer you're child her supper, if she chooses not to eat so
    be it.  In my house (4 kids under six) if you choose not to eat supper,
    no dessert and no snacks, your next meal will be breakfast, can you
    live with that? Fine carry on.  Being three years old has little to do
    with it I'm afraid, it doesn't change dramatically as they get older
    for a while.  Yes, many nights I end up preparing something that at
    least two of them I know will eat, and it's something my husband and I
    would prefer NOT to eat (hotdogs, pizza) again this week.
    
    I would never use time-outs as a method of "punishing" a child for not
    eating.  Time-outs, as has been said, should be reserved to stop an
    aggressive, unacceptable behaviour, allowing the child time to get back
    under control.  And as has also been said, a child will NOT starve him
    or her self to death.
    
    You have a 45 minute car ride home?  Heavens a perfect opportunity to
    give your daughter a snack so she's nott ravenous by the time you're
    home!  My kids and I have only a 15 to 20 minute ride home from
    daycare, and every day packed in their lunchboxes they hold aside one
    of the two snacks I pack for them, specifically for their "car snack". 
    Takes the edge off their appectite, and gives me some breathing space
    when we get home.
    
    Lighten up :*} it's not a personal affront to your cooking!  She's just
    being a kid!  I wish you the best!
    

    re: .18
    
    do most people agree that it is okay to let children eat in the 
    car??   i allow it; but have been told by a couple people that 
    it isn't a good idea.   when i asked them why....i didn't get a
    solid answer.
    
    cj/

    Re .-1.  I can't think of any reason why not, except that you tend to
    get crumbs and stuff on the floor.  Geez, whenever I use my husband's
    car, I always find empty bags of cheezits and things in the door
    pockets!

    There may be a couple of reasons.  First, it could be a danger if the 
    child were to choke and you couldn't quickly reach to help him/her.
    When driving our Jeep, I can't quite reach the kids in the car seats in
    back.
    
    Second, it may be a concern about instilling good eating habits, i.e., 
    at mealtime at a table vs. munching unconsciously wherever.
    
    
    -Tracy (whose kids do have snacks in the car)
     

    Re. eating in the car...
    
    Let's get real here, do YOU never eat in the car?  I do.  All the time. 
    I can see no reason to not allow your kid a snack in the car,
    particularly if it means a little peace and quiet.  Of course, my car
    reflects this policy, what a mess most of the time.  
    
    Personally, I can't be so uptight and concerned about "good eating
    habits", especially when my kids are of normal weight, and eat a good
    variety of foods for their age.  I certainly agree with a previous
    noter who said kids simply don't have the tastebuds for the same things
    adults do.  Although my oldest son, 5, is a real pickle person.
    
    Sometimes when something about my kids is really bugging me and I can't
    cope with it, I try to remember back to my childhood and see if I went
    through anything similar...  My mother used to make us sit at the table
    until our plates were clean.  Spent many a night sitting at the table
    to 8 or 9 o'clock staring at a plate full of peas.  Didin't make me eat
    them, didn't make me happy or my mother happy or me any less or more
    healthy.  So...
    

    So, Sarah, how is it going ???
    
    I agree with much that has been said here... and only want to add
    a few "personal" touches...
    
    I was (until @9 yers old) a *horrible* eater. My parents even dragged
    me to the doctor.  Many hours spent on the back porch eating with the
    dogs; staring at my dinner plate; sent to bed; spanked; you name it -
    my parents tried it !
    
    I have been blessed with a picky eating daughter.  I have wanted to
    strangle her for not wanting my "specially" made dinners (that I
    thought were delicious !) I mean I can really feel your feelings -
    trying to do and be the "best".
    
    Well, what helped me ?  I began to realise the her not liking my
    cooking was as much her right as it is mine to not like - say tripes to
    name one food I cannot stand.  This "realization" came after she
    started commenting on food she like in "hot lunch" at school (i.e.
    around 5 years old !) So now I try to cook food we both like
    and freeze some - With the micro, we both have what we like in a jiffy.
    She alos went through a phase when her "eating" window was about 15 to
    20 minutes somewhere near 18:30.  Before or up to then she would eat
    (maybe a teaspoon's worth 'cause she eats very little); after that
    there was nothing, I mean nothing that would get any food into her !
    
    She is now 9.5 and her eating habits and quantities are improving; but
    she is still her own person as far as taste and quantity goes.  In the
    interim years I backed myself up, as one noter said, by giving her
    multivitamins...!  and trying to keep foods as healthy as possible !
    
    Another anecdote to sooth your worries... I have friends who have a son
    who is even more picky - no tantrums - he just will starve if you go so
    far as to buy the wrong brand name of his favorite saussige !  Kids do
    not seem to mind eating the same thing day in and day out.  It's us
    adults (at least I am that way !) that cannot stand the monotony of
    having the same thing all the time.
    
    bottom line : try to feed her within her "eating window" - if that's in
    the car so what - don't force her to eat - and allow her to have a
    little freedom in her food likes and dislikes.  We all have them, and
    we are all still around to talk about them !
    
    It's much easier said than done - but do try to relax...
    
    Good luck - and do let us know how things are going.

    Hi,  
    
    I thought that I would update this and let everyone know how things are
    going.  On some occaisions, there are still battles.  I've resigned
    myself to the fact that if she doesn't want to eat what I fix her, then
    I don't force her to sit at the table and listen to her scream and
    throw a fit.  I ask her to come to the table to eat supper, if she
    doesn't I ask her to come to the table a few minutes later and tell her
    that if she doesn't want to eat, then that is fine, but I don't want
    her to ask me for anything else later.  Sometimes she will ask me for
    some fruit, yogurt or cereal.  If she asks for these, then I will let
    her have it.  If she asks for candy or fruit bites, I tell her that
    since she didn't want to eat supper, she can not have goodies. 
    Of course there is a little bit of a tantrum, but I wont give it
    to her and eventually she will ask for something that I will let
    her have.  Its frustrating to say the least and I really worry about
    her the nights that she doesn't want to eat a thing.   But, I think
    she is getting better, because some nights she is hungry and is
    very willing to try to eat what we have on the table.  If she tries
    it, doesn't like it, she will ask for something else.  I'll ask
    her what she wants and its usually the old standby PB&j.  Sometimes
    she has asked for bologna and cheese rolled up together with no
    bread.  I'll let her have that too.  So, I may be going about this
    all the wrong way, but I was tired of all the fights and arguments
    and after a long day at work, I don't want to listen to a temper
    tantrum.  I have no patience for it.  
    
    So hopefully soon, she will learn that if she is hungry she needs
    to at least try what I put on the table........
    
    Sarah

    Sarah,
    
    It sounds like you are doing everthing right.  3 year olds can
    definitly live on air for days at a time, and then eat more than most
    linebackers the next.  
    
    Remember, a healthy child will not starve herself to death, and will
    eat what she needs to grow, as long as you keep the goodies away.
    
    Meg