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Conference moira::parenting_v3

Title:Parenting
Notice:READ 1.27 BEFORE WRITING
Moderator:CSC32::DUBOIS
Created:Wed May 30 1990
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1364
Total number of notes:23848

454.0. "House temperature and sleep" by SCAACT::RESENDE (Just an obsolete child) Thu Oct 25 1990 01:57

Well, I have another question for your experienced parents (what would I do 
without this conference???).

All summer we've kept the thermostats on 78 degrees, and Michael has been 
sleeping in a Onesie without covers.  It worked well.

Now it's getting cooler.  This child *will not* sleep under covers. 
Period.  If he can he kicks them off.  If he can't kick them off in his
sleep, then he cries until one of us comes in and takes the blanket off
him.  The crying stops *instantaneously* when the blanket is removed, and
he sleeps fine for the rest of the night. 

But ... here's the catch.  Dressed in a sleeper and without any cover,
Michael is not comfortable with the temperature any cooler than about 72 -
74 degrees. We've tried turning it down to 70, and he cried till we turned
the heat up and he got warm.  Then he slept peacefully for the rest of the
night. 

Are we going to have to keep the house that warm all winter????  How can we 
go about trying to get him to sleep under a blanket?  We've tried using 
a very lightweight blanket, thinking we could get him used to that and then 
gradually use heavier covers, but no dice.  Any ideas???

Steve
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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454.1Try a space heaterMAJORS::MANDALINCIThu Oct 25 1990 08:1218
    Steve, 
    
    I've got a similar son as well. What we did was get a "space heater"
    for his room so only it was warm. It worked out well because we would
    die at those temperatures if we had to keep the house that hot. 
    
    I would personally work toward lowering the temperature over time. If
    he likes it at 72 degrees, don't go any higher. Eventually he might be
    able to tolerate 70 and then down to 68, etc. 
    
    Also, you might need to be concerned about the placement of the heater
    in his room. We had one of those contained-oil heaters, not the quartz
    heater where the quartz is exposed. This will depend upon your son as
    to whether you can "trust" him not to touch it.  (You didn't mention
    age or whether he was in a bed).
    
    Andrea
    
454.2Two sleepersPOWDML::SATOWThu Oct 25 1990 11:237
Have you tried heavier sleepers?  And, if so, TWO sleepers?  You may need to 
get a larger size, depending on the size of your baby.

It can be a pain when you change diapers, but otherwise it works fine.  I know 
of several people who have done this successsfully.    

Clay
454.3blanket sleeper?CNTROL::STOLICNYThu Oct 25 1990 11:526
    Jason has the same problem with blankets.   He sleeps in pretty well
    in a blanket sleeper with or without a onesie and a pair of socks
    underneath depending on how cold it is.   Can you get blanket sleepers
    in Texas??
    
    Carol
454.4Baseboard heaterNOVA::WASSERMANDeb Wasserman, DTN 264-1863Thu Oct 25 1990 12:523
    We keep the house at 60 overnight, so we got an electric baseboard
    heater for Marc's room.  With the door closed, it stays nice and toasty
    in there.  Although now we have big electric bills!  Oh well.
454.5RDVAX::COLLIERBruce CollierThu Oct 25 1990 13:5416
    Naturally he hasn't learned to love his blanket, since he's used to the
    mid-70s.  My house has never been kept over 60 degrees in the winter,
    and blankets (and flannel shirts) are very popular.  As with any change
    in sleeping arrangements, you may have a somewhat grouchy transition,
    but I wouldn't expect it to last long.  Clearly he'll have to get used
    to covers some time, and most likely the younger the easier (not to
    mention cheaper).  Crank down the thermostat and get it over with.
    
    Since my boys were both May arrivals, I've never had to worry about
    mid-winter temperatures for newborns.  But I certainly don't share the
    fairly common traditional sense that somewhat older infants need to be
    kept warmer than anyone else.  Space heaters of whatever type make for
    super-dry air (as does a high thermostat).  I think mid-winter
    resperatory comfort and health is achieved with coolth.
    
    		- Bruce
454.6check the material and texture of blanketTLE::RANDALLself-defined personThu Oct 25 1990 14:3810
    You might want to check the material the blanket is made out of. 
    He might, for instance, not like the feel of an acrylic blanket
    (some people find it prickly rather than soft), but would enjoy a
    cotton one.
    
    There's a certain amount of evidence that people who live in and
    sleep in cooler environments are healthier and more alert, though
    I don't think researchers have established it conclusively yet.
    
    --bonnie
454.7can you say spoiled?WORDS::BADGEROne Happy camper ;-)Thu Oct 25 1990 15:1317
    I can't believe my eyes and fingers, I'm agreeing with something Bruce
    said, "Crank down the thermostat and get it over with"
    Clearly child [you don't mention age] is ruleing dad.  Father should
    know best.  What else will child get away with and dad say nothing
    about?
    We keep our house at 60 at night.  If someone thinks they are cold
    and that includes guests, there are spare blankets to put on.  When I
    was a child, the upstairs was not heated.  Very little temperature
    difference between outside and inside.  I'm no worse off for the 
    experience.  
    
    Thats not to say the my kids [nor me when I was young] wouldn't like
    to crank up the heat.  They are learning conservation.  And house
    rules.
    
    ed
    
454.8Bundle up!CRONIC::ORTHThu Oct 25 1990 16:3215
    While our children didn't exactly dislike blankets, they were such
    restless sleepers, that they never seemd to stay under them for long,
    no matter how well tucked in they were. We dress then in several
    layers. A T-shirt or onesie, then socks, then footie pajamas (or s
    terry stretchie) then a blanket sleeper over it all. There rooms are
    set at 60 at night, but one of them gets colder (the thermostat is in
    the other room, and this one gets the wind)...about 55 or so. Our kids
    stay warm and comfy. Occasionally, when they were going through a fist
    sucking stage, and it was winter, we'd put a pair of heaviy socks over
    their fists. This discouraged the fist wetness (fuzzy tongues
    syndrome), and kept their hands warmer. The little rollover cuffs on
    newborns sleepers do the same thing. So turn the heat down...gradually,
    if need be (a degree a nite), but turn it down. Bundle him up, and let
    it be at that.
    --dave--
454.9THERMAL UNDERWEAR! UNDER WHERE?MAMTS3::MWANNEMACHERlet us pray to HimThu Oct 25 1990 19:341
    
454.10TLE::STOCKSPDSCheryl StocksThu Oct 25 1990 19:465
    Just an idea - maybe you could try getting him used to having a blanket
    over him when he's awake sometimes?  Maybe when he's quietly playing or
    something like that?  Babies are awfully conservative and hate change, and
    it might be easier to introduce the new feeling when he's awake and can
    deal with it a little better.
454.11TLE::STOCKSPDSCheryl StocksThu Oct 25 1990 23:1823
    A couple other ideas (this problem intrigues me, for some reason).  Are
you tucking the blanket in tightly?  (If not, how the heck can he even tell
when there's a light blanket laid loosely over his sleeper???  You haven't
been telling him the story of The Princess and The Pea, have you? :) )
Maybe if you don't tuck it in, he won't feel trapped and it won't bother him.

    And if you can't get him to tolerate blankets in any form, you might be
able to turn the heat down a bit if you can convince him to sleep with a
lightweight hat (cotton knit or flannel or something), since that'll help
keep him warmer.  If he rejects blankets, though, I imagine he'll be even
more opposed to hats!

    Sure would be nice to be able to read his mind and find out why he objects
to the blankets.  (Did anybody mention a remote diagnostics port in that lite
note yet?)

    Good luck!

		cheryl

p.s. I hope you realize that just when you come up with a good solution to
this problem, it will be back up in the 80's and he'll refuse to sleep
with*out* a blanket...
454.12FDCV07::HSCOTTLynn Hanley-ScottFri Oct 26 1990 18:296
    Try a flannel sheet, for one thing.
    
    Long underwear or a pair of pajamas under a thermal sleeper should keep
    him plenty warm.  Else, you can try covering him with a light quilt
    after he's soundly asleep.  He may not like a heavy feeling blanket.
    
454.13Thanks for all the ideas!SCAACT::RESENDEDigital, thriving on chaos?Sat Oct 27 1990 02:4698
    >I've got a similar son as well. What we did was get a "space heater"
    >for his room so only it was warm. 
    
    That might be what we end up doing.  However, we have a screen door on
    his room so we'd have to change that and put the old door back on.
    
    >I would personally work toward lowering the temperature over time. If
    >he likes it at 72 degrees, don't go any higher. Eventually he might be
    >able to tolerate 70 and then down to 68, etc. 
    
    That also might work.  Maybe we can just lower the thermostat one
    degree at a time.
    
    >Have you tried heavier sleepers?  And, if so, TWO sleepers?  You may
    >need to  get a larger size, depending on the size of your baby. You
    >might want to check the material the blanket is made out of.  He might,
    >for instance, not like the feel of an acrylic blanket (some people find
    >it prickly rather than soft), but would enjoy a cotton one.
    
    Pat bought blanket sleepers for him, but we can't use them yet.  Texas
    weather is somewhat desert-like, in that this time of year we have a
    tremendous variation between the daytime highs and the nighttime lows. 
    When Michael goes to bed (assuming we haven't run the A/C), his room is
    around 76 degrees; he'd *roast* in a blanket sleeper.  By morning (if
    we didn't run the heat) his room would be down to the low 60's. 
    Anything comfortable when he goes to bed will have him freezing by
    morning.  The only real way to sleep comfortably here this time of year
    is to dress fairly cool, then pull up the covers gradually as the night
    wears on and the house cools down.  We only have *real* winter weather
    for about two months, sometimes less than that.
    
    As far as the blankets go, we've tried featherweight cotton (with a
    nappy finish), Carter's thermal cotton receiving blankets. Carter's
    cotton crib blankets, and a thick but lightweight cotton quilt.
    
    >I can't believe my eyes and fingers, I'm agreeing with something Bruce
    >said, "Crank down the thermostat and get it over with" Clearly child
    >[you don't mention age] is ruleing dad.  Father should know best.  What
    >else will child get away with and dad say nothing about? We keep our
    >house at 60 at night.  If someone thinks they are cold and that
    >includes guests, there are spare blankets to put on.  When I was a
    >child, the upstairs was not heated.  Very little temperature difference
    >between outside and inside.  I'm no worse off for the  experience.  
    
    My concern is not that Michael's psyche will be destroyed by being
    forced to learn to sleep under covers.  It is that Pat and I tend to
    enjoy sleeping a little during the night ourselves.
    
    I agree with everything you said, and when we were DINKS, our
    thermostat was set at 55 during the night and we cranked up the ol'
    electric blanket and snuggled a lot.  The difference was that we didn't
    have a crying baby to listen to.  :^)
    
    >Just an idea - maybe you could try getting him used to having a blanket
    >over him when he's awake sometimes?  Maybe when he's quietly playing or
    >something like that?  Babies are awfully conservative and hate change,
    >and it might be easier to introduce the new feeling when he's awake and
    >can deal with it a little better.
    
    That's an idea we might try.  However, he is *never* still when awake;
    he moves constantly, so "playing quietly" is an oxymoron in his case.
    
    >A couple other ideas (this problem intrigues me, for some reason).  Are
    >you tucking the blanket in tightly?  (If not, how the heck can he even
    >tell when there's a light blanket laid loosely over his sleeper??? 
    >Maybe if you don't tuck it in, he won't feel trapped and it won't
    >bother him.
    
    We have never tucked the blanket in at all.  How he knows it's there is
    beyond me, but he knows.  Usually he kicks it off.  Once in a while,
    though, he'll turn over in a way that sort of wraps the blanket around
    his legs and he can't kick it off, at least not in his sleep (he never
    wakes up during any of the crying, etc. that I've described).

    >And if you can't get him to tolerate blankets in any form, you might be
    >able to turn the heat down a bit if you can convince him to sleep with
    >a lightweight hat (cotton knit or flannel or something), since that'll
    >help keep him warmer.  If he rejects blankets, though, I imagine he'll
    >be even more opposed to hats!
    
    No way!  We have trouble getting him to wear a hat in the daytime!!!!

    >Try a flannel sheet, for one thing.
    
    We have flannel sheets for winter, but haven't used them yet 'cause the
    room is so warm early in the evening.
    
    
    
    We have several things to try.  I'm going to go back and turn down the
    thermostat one degree right now, and perhaps we can gradually lower it
    over a period of time.  Also, I just checked on him and noticed that
    the featherweight cotton receiving blanket Pat put over his legs earlier
    is still there.  Maybe we're making some progress!
    
    Thanks for all your ideas.
    
    Steve
454.14CSC32::WILCOXBack in the High Life, AgainSun Oct 28 1990 00:505
We used to use a space heater in Kathryne's room 'cause our house
does get pretty cold and the bills can be outrageous.  One thing
I've been thinking of for her instead of an electric blanket is
an electric matress pad.  Anyone have experience with one of those?
She's in a regular bed.
454.15what about MY bill? 8-)CNTROL::STOLICNYSun Oct 28 1990 13:506
    The topic of this base note cracks me up, Steve.  If you think 
    your heating bills are going to be astronomical, welllll, what
    do you think about us poor New Englanders???   Not to mention,
    Lloyd Bentsen (sp?) and his great idea to further tax fuel oil????
    
    cj/
454.16Like Gilda used to say, it's always somethingSCAACT::RESENDEDigital, thriving on chaos?Mon Oct 29 1990 01:4311
    RE: .-1
    
    Yes, I realize our heating bill is a mere drop in the bucket compared
    to those of you living in New England.  But I'd bet very few of you
    paid a $250 water bill last month, and pay about that much per month
    during every July, August, and September.  Or paid to air condition
    your house during a week when every day's high temperature was three
    digit and one afternoon it was 106!  The cost of living ain't any
    better here ... it's just different!
    
    Steve
454.17How many acres did you water?SCAACT::AINSLEYLess than 150 kts. is TOO slowMon Oct 29 1990 11:408
re: .16

Steve,

What did you do to get a $250 water bill!?  Even with a sprinkler system, my
water bill last month was only $55.

Bob
454.18how many pools did you fill 8-)??CNTROL::STOLICNYMon Oct 29 1990 11:422
    
    
454.19QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centMon Oct 29 1990 16:1710
Manufacturers of electric blankets and mattress pads explicitly warn against
their use for infants (and the elderly) due to the child's inability to
turn the blanket off if it overheats.

My experience has been that children will cover themselves when they are
cold, and if they don't feel cold, will kick off the covers, despite how
cold their parents feel.  Many parents overdo it in their attempts to
keep their children warm.

					Steve
454.20SCAACT::RESENDEDigital, thriving on chaos?Mon Oct 29 1990 23:0419
    RE: .17
    Bob, we live in Highland Village where water is next to gold in value. 
    Think what our bill might have been if we hadn't been under water
    rationing all summer!  <;^)
    
    BTW, the $250 was what we paid to the city, and didn't include the
    bottled water we buy for drinking since the city water tastes too bad
    to drink.
    
    RE: .18
    We don't have a swimming pool.  We do have a sprinkler system, which we
    ran twice a week in September for 30 minutes per station.
    
    My point was simply that just because our heating bills are not as high
    as those in Northern climates, we still try to conserve as much as we
    can because we have other expenses that eat away at our income just as
    heating costs do for New Englanders.
    
    Steve
454.21space heaters: resident curmudgeon speaksPERFCT::WOOLNERPhotographer is fuzzy, underdeveloped and denseTue Oct 30 1990 15:372
    I'm surprised no one has commented on the safety issue of space heaters
    (I wouldn't have one anywhere NEAR my house!).
454.22QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centTue Oct 30 1990 17:3212
Re: .21

Well, it depends - some (for example, the oil-filled kind) are no less safe
than baseboard heat.  I wouldn't use any fueled heater, nor a freestanding
electric heater that gets hot to the touch.

There is one of those "disc" heaters made that plugs directly into an
outlet, so at least it's off the floor.  These aren't any better (and some
are worse) at heating than other kinds of electric heaters, but if you
must have one, it's a consideration.

					Steve
454.23We use one in Michael's bathroomSCAACT::RESENDEDigital, thriving on chaos?Tue Oct 30 1990 23:155
    We use one during winter in the bathroom when Michael gets his bath. 
    It's one of those little ceramic jobs that gets hot to the touch, but
    not hot enough to burn you.
    
    Steve
454.24back to the topic..CNTROL::STOLICNYWed Oct 31 1990 12:4720
    Steve, I've had another thought (oh, no...).   On the lines of a
    previous noter that suggested getting Michael used to the idea of
    being covered during his quiet times but with a twist.   A very
    common theme among the sleep disorders covered in Ferber's book
    "How to Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" is something to the 
    effect that when children have periods of wakefulness during the 
    night they "expect" the same conditions that they fell asleep with.
    Sooo, maybe you could cover Michael with a LIGHT blanket, flannel
    sheet, etc. when he lies down for bed (i.e. before he has fallen
    asleep) to get him accustomed to the coverings.  Whaddaya think?
    
    Good luck,
    Carol
    
    P.S.  I also have a wild child and the idea of "quiet play time" is
          unknown to me...he's always in motion.    Plus, I have NEVER
    	  met a child named MICHAEL that didn't have a bit of the devil
    	  in him!@!
    
    
454.25from a friend whose daughter doesn't like blanketsTLE::RANDALLself-defined personWed Oct 31 1990 14:0310
    Quite by accident the mother of one of Steven's friends mentioned
    that her daughter can't stand blankets, either. She sleeps in a
    lightweight sleeping bag on top of the mattress.  
    
    I don't know if Michael would be receptive to this idea or not,
    but sometimes kids like sleeping bags a lot more than beds.  (For
    instance, given the choice Steven would sleep in his sleeping bag
    on the floor nine nights out of ten.)
    
    --bonnie
454.26We're making slow progressSCAACT::RESENDEDigital, thriving on chaos? Beware the ides of November!Thu Nov 08 1990 01:4827
    Well, we're making a little progress.  In case someone else has to go
    through this, I thought I'd enter a note describing what we've been
    doing.
    
    First of all, the temperatures have cooled off here.  We're having 60's
    during the day, and 30's at night.  Michael's room is about 72 in the
    early evening, so we've been turning on the A/C just long enough to
    knock it down to 70, and putting him in a blanket sleeper.  That way we
    can turn down the thermostat to 68 and he still sleeps comfortably.
    
    We've put a lightweight but thick comforter in his crib.  He squirms too
    much to cover him up when he's first put in the bed, but after he goes
    to sleep we've been pulling the comforter up *just* over his lower
    legs.  In fact, we started with just the feet and now we've graduated
    up to his knees.  So far he's accepting it, and every few nights we
    pull it up a little further on him.  Once we get it up over more of his
    body we can bump the thermostat down some more.
    
    BTW, what brand of blanket sleepers do y'all use in New England?  We
    bought Carters, and they seem to be quite nice except for the feet. 
    There's no fabric under the vinyl!  The first night we put Michael in
    one, he woke up the next morning toasty warm, except with feet like
    ice!  Now we put socks on under the sleeper and his feet stay warm, but
    it would be wonderful to find some for next year that have the blanket
    material under the vinyl on the feet.
    
    Steve
454.27AIMHI::MAZIALNIKThu Nov 08 1990 15:248
    We have the opposite problem with Eric's feet in blanket sleepers.
    I think the one we bought has only a thin nylon layer over the 
    vinyl feet, but he wakes up with sweaty and stinky feet!  I need
    to find winter pj's with no feet.  The only one's I've got so
    far were a gift sent from Florida.
    
    Donna
    
454.28...And this too has passed...SCAACT::RESENDEDigital, thriving on chaos? Beware the ides of November!Sun Nov 18 1990 23:3512
    Well, I'm happy to report that Michael is now sleeping completely
    covered!  Our method of gradually pulling the comforter up a little
    more every three or four nights worked.  In fact, we've gone in twice
    and found that he had pulled it up all the way over his head, so there
    was just a lump under the comforter with a hand sticking out on one
    side!
    
    Now, I wonder what we'll have to deal with next...
    
    Ain't it great???????
    
    Steve
454.29NIGHT-TIME WARMTHDUCK::LYNGAWed Oct 30 1991 12:4918
    
    Any ideas about how to keep a one-year-old warm during the night?  I'm
    in the UK and the nights are getting very cold now.  I dress Rosie in
    warm nightclothes but she doesn't stay inside her quilt and
    blankets during the night.  I check on her several times before going
    to bed myself during the course of the evening, and she's usually 
    crawled out of her covers each time.  I tuck her back in, but half an hour
    later, she's crawled out again!
    
    We can't really afford to keep the heating on all night long, although
    we may have to if there's no alternative, but I'm wondering what to do 
    when the Winter is really upon us and it's below freezing in the middle 
    of the night.
    
    Any suggestions welcome.
    
    Ali
    
454.31sleepers?MCIS5::TRIPPWed Oct 30 1991 13:039
    Ali,
    
    Have you tried, are you using the Zippered blanket sleepers?
    
    Is it possible she's kicking off the covers because she is TOO Hot?
    
    this is just from my limited experience.
    Lyn
    
454.30Heat only what you need !SSGV01::ANDERSENWed Oct 30 1991 13:063
    
    How 'bout a space heater for her room only ? Keep it out of harms way
    and you could even put it on a timer.
454.32DeLonghi heatersGRANPA::LIROBERTSWed Oct 30 1991 15:5422
    I'm not about the UK, but here in the US they have heaters that are
    like old radiators, but they are filled with oil.  I have them in both
    of my kids rooms because they keep the room warm, but they won't burn
    themselves.  I think the companys name is DeLonghi.
    
    They really work great, that way we can turn the heat down and the
    house doesn't get stuffy.  We turn them on when the kids go to bed, and
    only turn them on low.  We bought our first one about 7 years ago when
    we lived in a tiny apartment that was always cold.  We are still using
    that same one in our oldest sons room.
    
    If you can get these in the UK, I think you will find that they work
    gre greatn find them in the UK, I think you will find that they work
    great.  Also, our electric company recommends these over space heaters
    because if they tip over, there is NOTHING to catch fire.  Also, they
    don't use alot of electricity.
    
    Hope it helps..
    
    
    Lillian
    
454.33sleeping bag type thing?SWSCIM::DIAZThu Oct 31 1991 17:345
    A friend of mine from Germany had a sack or sleeping bag like thing
    that went up to her daughter's armpitts and had straps that went 
    over her shoulders to hold it up. I can't remember if this was 
    something she made or was available in the stores but it looked great.
    I use the blanket sleepers already mentioned.
454.34We tried cotton, and it helped.SCAACT::RESENDEPick up the pieces &amp; build a winner!Mon Nov 04 1991 01:3620
We've learned something new this year.  My wife is in full-scale rebellion 
-- against polyester.  At the beginning of fall, when she was buying winter 
clothes for Michael, she ranted and raved that she was sick and tired of 
the stuff and wasn't going to put up with it any more!

So...  what to do for PJ's?

Well, she ended up mail-ordering 100% cotton long underwear, getting it a
little large so it wouldn't be too snug to be comfortable.  She even got
matching socks.  I was concerned that he wouldn't be warm enough, since the
fluffy blanket sleepers seem so much cozier.  Pat assured me that polyester
is hot in summer and cold in winter, while cotton is just the opposite. 
Well, our observation has been that he's *WARMER* in the cotton than he was
in the blanket sleepers.  He kicks off his cover regularly still, but we'll 
go in to check on him and find him sprawled out in the crib instead of 
hunched up like he used to be last year.

It might be worth a try for you...

Steve
454.35Try layersTNPUBS::STEINHARTMon Nov 04 1991 10:3211
    The old camping technique - layers.
    
    Under her blanket sleeper, Ilona wears a cotton tshirt and a pair of
    socks.  I would add more layers if she needed it.
    
    When I check her at night, her hands and her head are warm.  When I
    pull her out of the crib in the morning, her torso and legs are warm.
    She's been very healthy (just getting her first seasonal cold now) - so
    it's evident she's comfortable at night.
    
    Laura
454.36KAOFS::S_BROOKMon Nov 04 1991 12:2712
Cotton is generally colder when moist because it doesn't have the tendency
to wick moisture away to the surface.  It also transmits heat more quickly than
sympathetics.  Jeans on a winter's day are damnably cold, where polyesters
and wool blends are generally warmer.

No question though the easiest way to stay warm is layering.

My life would be hell if it weren't for synthetics because I cannot abide
wool next to my skin ... not allergic ... but the fibres really do make
me itch!

Stuart
454.37POWDML::SATOWMon Nov 04 1991 14:5124
re: cotton

re: .36 

Interesting Stuart -- my observation is different.  I agree with you that
cotton denim jeans directly against the skin seems colder than, for example,
wool, but I've always attributed that to the finish of the fabric rather than
the cotton itself.  A cotton T-shirt or cotton sweater seems quite warm to
me, and I've used cotton long underwear in very cold weather and it seemed
warm to me.  Perhaps the difference is that dry cotton is warm, but wet
cotton isn't?

re: .34

One thing that you might want to check on is flammability.  I don't know
whether or not cotton is flammable, but I do know that sleepwear is the one
type of clothing that does have standards for non-flammability.  Certainly
cotton wouldn't have the disadvantage of plasticizing and adhering to skin,
but I don't know whether cotton fabric, at least the kind made into long
underwear, burns or not.  Perhaps someone else knows.  And even if it cotton
is flammable, that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't use it -- just that
you should be aware.

Clay   
454.38KAOFS::S_BROOKMon Nov 04 1991 16:1428
    re .-1
    
>Interesting Stuart -- my observation is different.  I agree with you that
>cotton denim jeans directly against the skin seems colder than, for example,
>wool, but I've always attributed that to the finish of the fabric rather than
>the cotton itself.  A cotton T-shirt or cotton sweater seems quite warm to
>me, and I've used cotton long underwear in very cold weather and it seemed
>warm to me.  Perhaps the difference is that dry cotton is warm, but wet
>cotton isn't?
    
    Cotton teeshirts are a very fine cotton thread knitted.  Thus there is
    a lot of trapped air in the fabric.  If you wear a woven cotton shirt
    it is cooler.  Flannelette sheets are much warmer than plain cotton sheets
    because the brushed fabric traps more air and insulates better.  Same
    with brushed cotton pjs.
    
    Cotton long-johns work in cold weather for two reasons ... the first
    because they are knitted and often ribbed to provide air pockets and
    hence warmth.  Second because they are layered under outer clothes.
    I bought a pair of poly-cotton underwear and can't abide it because
    the surface is too hard and scratchy (just like wool!).  Cotton is
    popular becasue of its softness against the skin.
    
    Flammability with cottons is definitely a problem too ... synthetics
    can now be made flameproof, but cotton relies on fabric treatments
    that wash out in time.
    
    Stuart
454.39SCAACT::RESENDEPick up the pieces &amp; build a winner!Tue Nov 05 1991 23:4519
RE: last few

Yes, we're aware that cotton is flammable.  We made a conscious decision 
not to go with the flameproof polyester.  Flammability just isn't an issue 
for Michael with sleepwear; he'd be a lot more likely to have a 
fire-related accident in a sweatsuit.  At night, he gets his bath, gets his 
jammies on, brushes his teeth, hears a story or two, and goes to bed.  He 
doesn't get ready for bed early, then run around the house for a while.  In 
the morning he gets up, and immediately gets his diaper changed and his 
jammies off before leaving his room.  So flammability is a no-op for us.

RE: cotton and warmth

I agree that a pair of cotton jeans is cold.  But I can't honestly think of 
another item of cotton apparel that is.  I've also assumed it's the finish 
on the denim that makes it cold.  Cotton sweaters are nice and warm, as are 
sweatshirts.  And cotton corduroy pants are pretty warm too.

Steve
454.40KAOFS::S_BROOKWed Nov 06 1991 12:0713
Indeed, it does depend on finish (flat or brushed) and construction (knitted
vs woven) that determines any fabric's warmth.  Also involved is resilience
(i.e. does teh fabric squash flattening out air pockets ... thus making it
colder ... cotton is very resilient where a lot of polyesters, especially
when "combed or brushed" aren't.

I have a couple of fleeced polyester jackets (so called polar-fleece) and
they are incredibly warm.

Just out of interest Steve, why are synthetics a no-no in your house ?
Allergies maybe ?

Stuart
454.41Made in New England, underwear??MCIS5::TRIPPWed Nov 06 1991 15:0913
    I seem to remember a mail order place, in New Hampshire, (Portsmouth, or
    Kittery Maine area) something like Dakin.  They sell underwear of all 
    sorts and description, including 100% cotton.  Their claim to fame was the
    lifetime guarantee, if it rips or gets a hole in it, send it back and they
    will replace it.  My father inlaw, who worked in construction, sent a pair
    back to them simply because they had shrunk in the dryer, it really should
    have been his fault, but they replaced it with no argument.
    
    A friend of mine worked in their factory years ago, and always remarked
    how strict the QC standards were.  They might even have a factory
    outlet store, if I could only remember a better location.
    
    Lyn
454.42DAMART, Salem,NHTENVAX::MIDTTUNLisa Midttun,285-3450,NIO/N4,Pole H14-15Wed Nov 06 1991 15:242
    RE: -1...I believe the name of the company is DAMART. They have an
    outlet here in Salem NH (and other places I'm sure).
454.43MCIS5::TRIPPThu Nov 07 1991 14:274
    Thanks Lisa!  The mind is the FIRST thing to go, immediately after
    giving birth!!
    
    Lyn
454.44cotton's not warmTLE::RANDALLliberal feminist redneck pacifistFri Nov 08 1991 11:1413
    Cotton does not retain heat when it's wet.  If you take a
    mountain-climbing or bad-weather hiking class, one of the first
    things they'll tell you is to not wear cotton because the same
    factors that help it take heat away from your body on a hot day
    are still  operating on a cold day and  you'll get dangerously
    chilled much more quickly in cotton than in wool or synthetics.
    
    The Appalachian Mountain Club suggests silk for a warm, natural,
    lightweight fabric, though they also approve of the high-tech
    synthetics unless you have other reasons such as back-to-nature
    beliefs or allergies.  
    
    --bonnie
454.45SCAACT::RESENDEPick up the pieces &amp; build a winner!Fri Nov 08 1991 23:1724
>================================================================================
>Note 454.40                House temperature and sleep                  40 of 42
>KAOFS::S_BROOK                                       13 lines   6-NOV-1991 10:07
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Just out of interest Steve, why are synthetics a no-no in your house ?
>Allergies maybe ?

My wife was the one who felt strongly about no more polyester.  No, none of 
us is allergic to it, but Pat doesn't like it for other reasons.  First of 
all, she feels cotton is warmer in winter and cooler in summer (I know 
there's been some discussion about this, but her mind is made up).  In 
addition, she got really irritated last year at how Michael's blanket 
sleepers looked after a few washings.  They pill like crazy, and don't stay 
pretty and fluffy like when they're new.  By the end of the winter they 
look positively ratty.  And lastly (this   doesn't really apply so much to 
jammies, but to other clothing) she feels cotton is much easier to get 
stains out of than synthetics.

I really have no opinion one way or the other, except I have observed along
with Pat that Michael seems to sleep much warmer in his cotton long-johns
than he did last year in his polyester blanket sleepers. 

Steve