Conference moira::parenting_v3

    
    re: .0
    
    So is there a hazard (to the child) of crib monitoring devices?
    If I read .0 correctly, then there is none. The only "hazard"
    being a potential for invasion of privacy of the parents. 
    
    If anyone wants to park their car in front of my house at 2:00 am
    to hear my son cry his lungs out, I guess that that could be a
    genuine hazard to the sanity of the listener!!	;^)
    
    					-St

Bruce,  was this the first you had heard of this?  I'm just curious
because I'm a "ham" radio operator and have known about monitors and
cordless phones for a long time.  I assumed it was well publicized
everywhere that these things could be (and routinely are) received for
miles. (In fact, we use a scanner as a second receive unit for our baby
monitor so we don't have to keep hauling the one that came with the
unit up and down stairs.)  If it hasn't been widely known up to now,
let me assure people in this file that baby monitors transmit an easy
three miles.  And those mikes that are sensitive enough to pick up
breathing in the baby's room will pick up conversations all over your house. 

Just for the record, I don't listen in on these devices.  But there are MANY who do.

                                >>>==>PStJTT

>let me assure people in this file that baby monitors transmit an easy
>three miles. 


Then why is it that I can't hear my baby if I walk to the mailbox with my
receiver?????????????????  Do I need a ham radio???

:-)

    One of our neighbors had to trade in their monitor because with
    all the kids in the neighborhood, she was picking up the
    neighbor's kids as well as her own on a two-channel monitor --
    everybody using the same brand.
    
    It's been ruled that police don't need a warrant to eavesdrop on
    and use evidence from monitoring a person's car phone calls.  I'd
    assume baby monitors would fall under the same rule.
    
    --bonnie

    The main person featured in the article not only monitored these
    special frequencies, he published a magazine with equipment reviews,
    tips on how to identify the house you were eavesdropping on, etc.  An
    example of the latter:  after guessing the location of a house from
    other clues, feed the monitored signal into a tape recorder, while you
    drive by and blow your car horn distinctively outside the target house. 
    If the horn shows up on the tape when you get back, you've found it!
    
    They also talked to a man who had been relocated from Dallas to St.
    Louis (or somewhere), and was sad to miss monitoring especially
    interesting phone calls between a particular man and his mistress. 
    Several different hobbyists would take turns monitoring his cordless
    phone frequency, and when he called this women, they would call each
    other up with an alert, so all could listen in.
    
    With a crib monitor, it is still broadcasting everything even if the
    receiving unit is turned off.  It is certainly no hazard to the baby,
    just to everyone else's privacy.  It is the first I'd heard of it.
    
    		- Bruce

    I've noticed over the past few months a "strange" noise on our monitor
    (FP).  It only happens at certain times, usually at night.  At first it
    was really scarry!  I didn't know what the heck it was.  It sounded
    like someone punching in a phone number - then we could hear what
    sounded like someone talking.  It wasn't very clear.  We could only
    hear one person talking.  The sound was like a muffled robot voice.
    Sometimes it was so loud it would wake us up in the middle of the
    night.
    
    The next day Ray told someone at work and this person was experiencing
    the same thing.  He told Ray that monitors could pick up conversations
    of someone who was on the same frequency as our monitor.  Really
    spooky!  Can't wait until we don't have to use it anymore.
    
    Denise

    It strikes me as a bit odd to see someone say that they 'have' to
    used a baby monitor. I raised 4 babies without a monitor and
    there are thousands upon thousands of people alive today who were
    not monitored as babies.
    
    Just exactly what does a monitor give you that is worth the loss of
    personal privacy?
    
    Bonnie

    I was told that if you turn your monitor base off and only have on
    the receiving unit, that's when you can hear the neighbor's kids.
    I very rarely use mine, but it just occurred to me that the base
    in the baby's room is in a constant state of "on".  Oh well, if
    people find my life interesting enough to listen in, then they're
    in sorry shape!  I suppose I should turn the base off, though since
    I rarely use the monitor and it's only wasting electricity right
    now.
    
    - K

The baby monitors and cordless phones share the same frequency space,
so it's possible to get cordless phone interference on your baby
monitor.  I know my cordless phone has three channels, one of which
comes in on the baby monitor. The sound is generally distorted because
they're not exactly on the same frequency, but close enough.

The reason you can't hear your monitor 50 feet away and a scanner fan
can hear it from miles away has to do with the differences in the
quality of the receivers and the antennae.  People who are into
scanning as a hobby usually have a really sensitive receiver and a high
quality antenna.  The receivers packed with baby monitors are generally
lowest possible quality for the job with an undersized "rubber ducky"
(flexible antenna.)

I don't know if there's ever been a ruling on baby monitors as
evidence.  The ruling that said cordless phones could be used as
evidence without a warrant was based on the fact that the public has
"no reasonable expectation of privacy" on what amounts to a
walkie-talkie hooked to your phone system.  Using the same reasoning I
would expect baby monitors to be treated the same way.  HOWEVER --
cellular phones (the type most often seen in cars these days) have a
special law covering them that would require a warrant. For the a
scanner fan, though, there is nothing in the cell-phone technology to stop them.

Back to baby monitors -- by all means shut off the transmitter when the
set is not in use. (Or when you're planning a juicy argument...)

                             >>>==>PStJTT

    re: several back.  I'm sure we would all survive without a monitor,
    but they are so handy.  When baby is sleeping and I want to be
    working in the yard, I use the monitor.  When it's a hot summer
    night and we put the air conditioning on and close the bedroom 
    door, we'd never hear the baby crying if the monitor wasn't on.
    
    Also, when the baby was a newborn, I'd turn the receiving end
    up real loud so I could hear him breathing.  Saved me having to
    run into his room every half hour wondering if he was okay.
    
    Donna
    

    
    Bonnie,
    You have missed out on the 8th wonder of the world!  Nursery monitors
    are GREAT!  Of course, they are not necessary, but at $30 or so, they
    are worth their weight in gold.
    
    For instance, we have window air-conditioners in both or room and in
    Hannah's room.  There's no way I would run both air-conditioners at
    night without having the nursery monitor on.  I can hear the slightest
    noise in her room--whether she's talking to her "babies" or crying from
    a bad dream.
    
    The nursery monitor allows me to keep the air-conditioner on in her
    room (with her door closed) while I read or watch tv downstairs.  I
    know instantly if she wants me (I can't hear her calling over the
    air-conditioner).
    
    Also, the monitor allows me to go outside while she's napping.  I take
    it with me into the yard and I can do my gardening--jump in the
    pool--hang out with friends (on my property), etc.  I always know the
    second she gets up--or needs me.
    
    Again, it's not a necessity but if I knew someone who had a new baby
    and didn't have a monitor--it would be my baby present to them.  We've
    been using ours for 3 years now.  My lifestyle would definetly suffer
    without it.
    
    Regards,
    Bonnie
    
    
    
    

There are times when we used our monitor ... like out in the garden, or
out for a late evening walk, or in the basement when tiny.  But we never
relied on the monitor for reassurance that the baby was breathing ... we
felt no need for that kind of reassurance on a regular basis ... if we
did, I'm sure I'd be a paranoid wreck by now :-)

It's all a matter of degree really ... if you have a child you NEED to be
worried about, then by all means use it that way ... but if you don't need
constant monitoring, don't use it that way.  You've got to learn to "let
go" ...  We only had the monitor for our last child ... it was a good buy,
but if it wasn't on special we wouldn't have it.  The lack of a monitor
didn't stop laundry in the basement, gardening, chats with the neighbours
over the fence etc ...

It's all a part of merging a baby into your life, not you into the baby's!
:-)

Stuart

    Several times people have asked me for suggestions on what to buy for
    baby gifts, and a BAby monitor is my first reaction!  My sister inlaw
    gave me mine, can't remember what kind, but the receiver has NO
    external anntena.  AJ is over 3.5yrs and we still use it, for all the
    reasons mentioned like closed doors and Air conditioners, knowing when
    he's up and out of bed if we're outdoors cutting grass etc. and even
    recently to monitor the period after a day surgery and after that when
    he had a cold, coughing and a developing asthma attack.  I aggree they
    are the 8th wonder!!
    
    Now here's what I've been told about this subject.   A neighbor told me
    she had many lenghty calls to Germany on her phone bill, to make a long
    story short, one of her neighbors had been calling from her OWN home,
    but used a cordless phone, outside.  Somehow the transmission didn't
    hit her own phone, but the neighbors.  I understand that it is possible
    to put your portable phone in your car, and get within a half mile of
    someone's home with a cordless phone, and place a call using THEIR
    phone number (illegal, yes probably).  The people next door use their
    cordless phone frequently, I have heard full conversation on my scanner
    and fire pager (husband and I are part of the town's "call" fire dept),
    if the airways arn't quite right, I will still get a hissing type of
    "white" noise from their phone.
    
    My sister inlaw related a story of running up and down stairs several
    times because she heard crying from her monitor, only to discover it was a
    neighbor's baby whom SHE had given a monitor to as a birth present!
    
    Interesting...to say the least!
    Lyn
    

    I didn't use a monitor for my first two.  I have one for David,
    which I use at nap times while I work in my study, which is in the
    basement and out of earshot of his room.  It also lets us sit on
    the deck while he's napping. 
    
    At first we used it a little more, but we discovered that it let
    us go a bit farther away from the house than what we could get
    back to him if he really did have an emergency. 
    
    I don't like the idea of eavesdropping on my children's private
    moments.  And yes, I do think a baby is entitled to have his or
    her privacy respected . . . just as I expect him to learn to
    respect mine.  
    
    --bonnie

re: .13

Your neighbor must have a really old cordless phone.  Anything made in the past
3 years ??? - I'm sure one of the hams reading this will correct me if I'm
wrong about the date, should be virtually immune to those types of problems.

The problems started because there were only 2 or 3 frequencies that the phones
used to communicate to the base unit.  In addition, the base units were always
'on'.  They would accept a signal from another remote unit, even if the real 
remote unit was sitting in the base.  The problems have been overcome by
basically 3 changes.  1 - More frequencies for the remote and base units to
communicate.  2 - The use of codes similar to those used in garage door openers
to make sure the base unit only talks to the proper remote unit.  3 - Disabling
the base unit whenever the remote is plugged into the base unit.  This 3rd
item also helped eliminate another problem early units had - they sometimes
dialed 911 without any human assist.

Bob

RE Base note

I suggest a change in title: The RF radiation from a baby monitor or
cordless telephone does not constitute a hazard to the baby. This
is the main thrust of this notes file. Security hazards are best
discussed in the Telephone/Cellular Phone/Electro-Hobby notes
files.

calvin

    We had to stop using our cordless phone when we moved to our house in
    Watertown 4 years ago.  We were receiving some AM radio station every
    time we tried to use the foolish thing.  Perhaps being on the next hill
    from the Needham antennas had something to do with it.
    
    Fortunately, we're not plagued with the radio broadcasts on the baby
    monitor.  Maybe folks at the radio station are listening to my daughter
    breathe???  :)                                           
    
    

    I have a situation regarding monitors and leaving the baby
    unattended - thought I would open this up to the parenting
    community and get some thoughts on this. (Moderator - if 
    this does not belong in this file - please move).
    
    I am soon to be a new mother (July) and wanted to see what the
    response would be to this situtation.  I have a friend who
    travels quite frequently with her 5 month old baby.  She always
    stays at motels that have eating facilities in them, and she 
    always requests the first floor.  During meal times (when the
    baby is napping) she leaves the room to go to the restaurant - but
    she always takes her nursery monitor with her so she can hear the
    baby if he wakes up.  
    
    I guess my question is - is this safe?  She uses the excuse that it
    is the same as somebody going outside to do yard work and taking
    the monitor with them.  She is never far from the room and it is 
    only to eat dinner/lunch.
    
    I don't want to start a big debate - I was just curious as to what
    experienced parents thought about this.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Kara

I guess it depends on the hotel (is it one where you have to sleep with one
eye open?  does the key use a computer code that changes with every visitor?),
but I wouldn't feel comfortable with it.  I too travelled alot with my little
ones, but always took them wherever I went to eat.

My biggest source of discomfort is how many others have keys to my room
(unlike my house while I'm doing yardwork and can SEE who goes in, for the
most part).  But it doesn't just make my heart skip a beat like some
situations I have heard about....

FWIW,
Kristen

    
    I wouldn't do it, but I can't judge those who might.   To me, there's
    a big difference in having the child in my own home, where access
    is rather limited, vs. in a hotel where access is rather wide open
    (i.e. probably lots of people have "master" keys)
    
    Carol

    For me, it would depend on how crowded things were and how quickly
    I could reach the room from the dining room.  
    
    --bonnie

    I would not do this.  Too many people have master keys--housekeeping,
    bellhop, maintenance, and so on.  I would never be comfortable with it.  
    
    Just my opinion,
    
    judy

    
    	Personally, I'd rather have room service come to me than
    	to leave my child in an easily accessible room for anyone
    	to just enter and exit as they see fit.
    
    	/Kim

    I would never do this, too many "what ifs".  I'd rather bring the baby
    into the restaurant, and let him/her sleep in the stoller, or do room
    service.

    Add me to the I-wouldn't-do-it-either list.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    Has this been answered already?  Why doesn't she get room service?
    
    marcia

re: .26

Perhaps she doesn't want to eat in the room.  .18 says that the woman travels 
quite frequently; maybe she gets tired of looking at the inside of motel 
rooms.  And besides, I didn't see any indication that .18's friend is LOOKING 
for alternatives.  

I would add another possible danger, and that is the danger of fire, which 
would probably not get detected by a monitor.

But I also think that the dangers mentioned are very remote -- enough so that, 
while I wouldn't do it myself, I'm not prepared to say that .18's friend is 
courting disaster, or is being negligent.

I'm not sure what prompts the question.  If someone is in the same situation 
as .18's friend, and they don't think that the practice is safe, then just so 
some of the alternatives mentioned, like room service (not available at many 
motels) or taking the baby to the dining room.  But if it's to make some 
judgment as to whether .18's friend is being negligent or not, I'd say this 
practice isn't worth making an issue of.

Clay  

    
	RE: .27
    	>I would add another possible danger, and that is the danger of 
    	>fire, which would probably not get detected by a monitor.

    	I would think that if the monitor can pick up the baby 
    	making noise that it would also pick up the sound of a
    	smoke alarm going off, wouldn't it?  (I don't have one
    	so....)
    
	/Kim

    re: .28
    
    Yes, it should.
    
    It would also pick up the sound of anyone going into the room.  
    
    It would be a rare, and probably quickly fired, hotel/motel
    employee who would enter a room that had a do-not-disturb sign
    posted.  
    
    A lot also depends on the quality of the hotels.  I've stayed at
    some hotels where I'd trust the staff more than I'd trust most of
    my neighbors . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    We used to have a cordless phone but not for long.  When I picked up my
    regular phone one night and couldn't use it because a neighbor or mine
    was on her phone coming through loud and clear with all her marital
    problems and I was embarrassed to listen.  I wasn't even sure who it
    was and figured it out after they got divorced!  Anyway I kept picking
    up the phone to use it and I couldn't because she was there one sided
    conversation.
    
    Then my other neighbor told me one night that he heard me on the phone
    when he was talking to another neighbor.  They said I came through
    clear as if I were on the line with them.  At that we decided to wait 
    before getting a cordless phone.  We feel some day they will perfect
    them so that sort of thing won't happen.  If not, we won't have a
    cordless phone!

   Just a comment - while I expect that eventually technology will fix
   the issue of cordless phone bleed-over, there will always be the
   privacy risk with cordless communications.  I mean, think about it,
   the whole idea behind a cordless phone is that the communications
   are "sent" back to the base unit over the air waves.  If the base
   unit can pick it up, so can other receivers.  Unless they go for
   scrambling the signal between the hand-set and the base unit, the
   cordless phone will probably not be any more private than using a
   2-way radio.
   
   Note - I'm not a hardware techie, so this is a conceptual
   understanding of how things work.  I'm always open to correction or
   clarification from others who know more about this stuff...
   
   - Tom

When we would go with our children on vacation when they were small we would
often sit in the lounge in the evening to read after our children had gone
to bed.  Now they are bigger and we have two different rooms when we go on
vacation.  One of us would go up from time to time to see that everything was
ok.  We've done this since they were babies with never an ill effect, 
including leaving a child sleeping in a room for their afternoon nap.  After
all, what else are you going to do, sit there in a dark room all afternoon?

Of course this is Europe where the situation may be a bit different.  The
hotels were usually fairly small.  In fact you could usually count on 
someone from the staff coming and telling you if they heard a child crying.
Of course I wouldn't want to imply that this is correct in all situations but
certainly I and many of my friends here do it.  We've never had occassion to
worry about it in the U.S.   The only time we were there with a baby, we went
out one evening and hired a sitter.

ccb

    I did something similar to this with my son, here in the States.  Seems
    to me that a combination of a "Do Not Disturb" sign and the monitor
    provides adequate supervision of a sleeping child, or one who you are
    encouraging to sleep.  Just being in the same room with my son was
    enough to keep him going far beyond his normal sleeping time, to
    everyone's detriment.  I commend the mom in question for an imaginative
    use of technology to ease everyone's life.
    
    Alison

    I want to thank everyone on their input to the motel question.
    I wasn't really wanting to start a debate on neglect - I was
    just curious as to how other parents felt about this situation.
    I thank everyone for being honest about their answers.  
    
    The question came about because my husband and I are Dog Show people
    and would like to continue showing after the baby is born.  We
    were discussing different avenues to take in regards to taking
    the baby or leaving at home with grandma.  My friend told me what
    she does and I just wanted more input from "exerienced" parents as
    to what they thought about this.  Now with all the helpful information
    we got from notes file, we can continue our discussions and make
    a decision about how we are going to handle our situation.
    
    Thanks again for all the input - it was very very helpful.
    
    Kara

re: .34

     Ahh, now that's clearer.  If grandma is willing, if it's convenient, 
and you feel comfortable leaving her with grandma, I'd strongly recommend it.

     This will allow you to enjoy your hobby without any distractions,
give grandma time with baby, and give baby undivided attention of an adult. 
Do not underestimate how demanding babies can be at the most inopportune
times.  IMO, there is someone who can take care of your baby, but you choose
to take your baby with you, you are being unfair, both to yourself and to the
baby.

Clay

    I know I'm late but....add me to the ones of "I wouldn't do it, but I
    don't really have a clear picture of the situation either"  
    
    AJ is 4-1/2 and we've manged Three hotel stays since he was born.  The
    first he was 16 months, he went everywhere with us, no problem no
    hassle, the second we went to Old Orchard Beach, when it was bedtime
    and he was asleep we took a walk on the beach keeping our sliding door
    (the only access to the room) in sight at all times, the third we went
    to the Cape for a weekend, hired a sitter for our second night and went
    to dinner.  When we returned from dinner we stopped by the room to drop
    our sweaters and check on things before going to the hotel lounge, we
    found the sitter entertaining at least 6 of her friends in the doorway
    (both male and female), even though he was asleep.  He mother, the
    deskclerk thanked us the next day for driving her home, WE DIDN'T!!,
    now I wonder how did she get home?  Transportation home was never
    mentioned, and she left with her friends.  Oh well live and learn!
    
    As for the issue of you can run back if you hear a smoke detector going
    off, guess again.  If you saw the film "backdraft" you saw that if
    there's a fire in a room and you open the door, the room is likely to
    Literally explode in flames when the door is opened!  (Of course you'd
    feel the door with your hand first wouldn't you? If it's hot you don't
    open it!) If there's enough smoke to set off a detector, it's likely
    your child would be uncontious or worse from the smoke already anyway.
    
    If you think you could get to the room if you heard someone in it, I'd
    say probably NOT, anyone determined enough to kidnap a child could do
    it in matter of seconds.
    
    Sorry for the soapbox, just a few opinions I needed to express.
    
    Lyn
    (EMT, firefighter's wife, and MOM!)

    I did forget to mention that as an option to expensive, and usually
    limited room service, we would scout out a local pizza joint and get
    one to go, after he was asleep.  (Domino's delivers, even at Old
    Orchard Beach Maine!)
    

   Well, this really doesn't have anything to do with the privacy
   issue behind baby monitors, but I couldn't see starting a new note
   for this, so...
   
   We use a baby monitor with the girls' room (2 girls, 1 room).
   Every so often, the receiver will just stop receiving, as if its
   been turned off, but no one has touched it.  Resetting (1) the
   receiver doesn't help anything - we actually have to physically
   reset the transmitter.  And, on top of that,  it won't often reset
   *unless* we have the receiver turned on and in the same room when
   we reset the transmitter.  (makes for an interesting feedback loop,
   though!)
   
   It seems as if something actually "knocks out" transmission, but
   that's a guess from a software engineer.  Any comments?  What's
   going on here...
   
   btw - its not batteries - this happened to me last night after I
   had replace the batteries.
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom
   
   (1) - Reset in this context means turn it off, then turn it back on
   again.

Are there any remote control devices or microwave ovens near the transmitter 
(not likely) or receiver (probably more likely)?

Our VCR remote control sometimes does very odd things to our cable box.

Clay

   re: .39, Clay
   
   Well, sometimes.  I guess it depends on how close you mean.  The
   microwave is usually not used that time of night, but the remote
   for the cable box is.  As you guessed, the transmitter is in the
   girls' room.  This is next to the living room, so the transmitter
   and cable remote are at their closest about 6-10 feet apart with a
   wall or door in between.
   
   But, the other night when this happened twice, it was just before I
   closed up for the night - receiver sitting on our headboard and  no
   electronics in use in our place.
   
   Curiouser and curiouser,
   
   Thanks,
   
   - Tom