Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Boy, Dottie, sounds like our kids are two peas in a pod!
    
    I will admit that I USED to have some of the same thoughts that
    some of your fellow mall-rats had....i.e. "I'd never tie up a
    kid".   Weelll, I have been "blessed" with an absolutely wild 
    child (fortunately, he doesn't walk yet - I'll be losing it then).
    and am probably going to have to use a harness.   I already have
    problems with him standing in his stroller!
    
    So, I'd ignore the nasty stares and comments 'cuz I suspect that
    the majority of these folks have never been there!
    
    cj/

    .1 is exactly right.
    
    I started using a walking harness when Kat was about a year old. 
    I was out shopping with a friend and her two kids, the younger a
    well-behaved 18-month old who usually stayed close to her mother. 
    We were about to cross the street when the light changed in front
    of us.  My friend reached down to take her son's hand just as he
    stepped off the curb.  Note this is not a child who's running
    away, or a mother who's jerking on his arm, just a little step
    down, and yet it had enough force to dislocate his shoulder.  
    
    The emergency room doctor who treated him says he sees several
    cases of dislocated arms and elbows and broken collarbones caused
    by tall parents lifting up too hard on the arms of short children. 
    
    So we both started using walking harnesses after that.  Kat used
    it until she could be trusted not to dash off after the first
    animal she saw, at about 5; Steven was able to be mostly on his
    own holding hands except in very crowded places by around 3. 
    Don't know what David will be.
    
    The harness is useful for other things, too -- you can turn almost
    any chair into a safe place to sit and don't have to worry about
    whether the restaurant high chair has adequate straps.  
    
    --bonnie

    I do not use a harness and find them disconcerting. They remind me too
    much of dog leashes, I guess. Ryan has been walking (and running) since
    10 months, but we, with the help of the sitter, were early able to
    teach him to stand near us when cars are coming, and/or stand on the
    grass. It's especially hard since our neighborhods have no sidewalks.
    
    I guess that if you feel it's the best solution for you, then ignore
    the looks and comments, as hard as that may be  Some alternatives for
    taking walks might be to use the backpack one day, pull a wagon the
    next - even a sled. We've been seen many a summer evening pulling
    Ryan's sled along with him contentedly sitting in it!
    

    I used a harness for my daughter.  As far as I'm concerned people can
    take their unasked for opinions and self-rightous looks and blow them
    oyt their ears.
    
    I never lost my daughter in a crouded mall (I know a woman whose
    youngest sister was snatched in a couded mall).  I used it in crouded
    places.  I'd rather hear 1000 snide comments than have to report a
    missing child.

    	Even though Shayne is not walking yet, and even before he was a
    gleam in his father's eye, I knew that the harness' would be for me.  
    I used to work retail and the things I used to see still send shivers 
    down my spine.  I think not only does the harness save you piece of 
    mind having to find your kid if they run off, but saves the vocal 
    cords from having to constantly say "COME BACK HERE!!!"

    We own 2 or 3 of those wrist type harnesses and have certainly used
    them more than once! We've found they work best on kids old enough to
    understand not to freak out and rip their wrists off trying to get
    loose (our eldest did this) We use them when we haven't enough hands to
    securely hold onto all three kids, or when they need a bit more freedom
    than hand holding. I think of it more as extended hand holidng than a
    leash...they have more freedom with the wrist harness than when holding
    hands and then mom and dad have that extra hand free, too. My wife
    first used 'em when the eldest was 22 mos. and our daughter was a
    newborn. She couldn't quite picture walking through a mall, pushing the
    stroller, and having Josh dash off....what do you do? run after him
    pushing the stroller (difficult at best)? Leave the stroller to
    retrieve the toddler (NO WAY!!!!)? so....we went with the wrist
    harness. He did not like it at all, and constantly tried to get it off.
    We considered going with the zip-up one, but decided against it,
    because, at the time, myself being gainfully unemployed, we could not
    afford it. My wife simply did not go out into situations that would
    call for its use, unless I was with her, until Josh got a bit older and
    tolerated it better. But we would not have hesitated to use the zip-up
    one if we could have afforded it.
    Don't let anyone make you feel bad! Each one is entitled to their
    opinion, but not entitled to force it on you! Do what you are most
    comfortable with, and what you feel is safest and best for your child.
    And then just let the comments roll off you!
    --dave--

    
    To note .6:
    
    What is a zip-up?
    

    Sorry for the shorthand...
    "zip-up" equals a zip-up-the-back style harness, such as the one the
    basenoter referred to in her note.
    
    --dave--

    I perferr to cal them 'love lines'.  beats the dead beat name calling
    of dog leash.  there was extensive talk on the subject in the last
    parenting notesfile.
    We used them.  and loved them.  and the kids did too.  sometimes big
    hands hold the little hands too much.  I think the littles ones had
    more of a since of security having a line back to Daddy.  That way,
    I wouldn't be able to get away from him.  The danger was to have
    two of the same age kids, one on each wrist.  they loved to go in
    different directions.
    ed
    each to their own.
    

We didn't use one with Kathryne, but my thought is that using a 
harness/leash on a child will no more turn him into a dog than
wearing a Syracuse University T-shirt turned my cousin's dog
into a co-ed!

Liz

    
    re: .6
    
    Dave,
    
    JA prefers the zip-up harness over the Fisher Price wrist harness ...
    probably because she doesn't sense being "connected" when the cord
    is attached to her backside (vs. her wrist).
    
    JA was much happier when we moved the wrist adapter to her "upper arm",
    giving her more elbow, wrist and hand freedom ... but she still prefers
    the zip-up harness (and I find the FP curly-Q telephone cord to be a
    slight nuisance, too!).   So I use her zip-up much more often than the
    FP curly-Q one.
    
    Just my .02!
    Dottie

    I've used them with both kids.  The zip ups have the advantage that
    both hand are free for the little ones to balance.  Also I took Carrie
    to Reno on amtrack when whe was 2 1/2.  The "pony harness" (Carrie
    loves horses), kept her near me and also save her from a couple of
    nasty falls going downstairs to the bathrooms.  Amtrack west of Chicago
    is all double decker trains.  Seating upstairs for the view, and
    luggage or handicap access down.  
    
    Yes we have been stared at and some people have made very rude remarks,
    but I've never had the experience of a kid vanishing in a crowded
    store, have been able to take a very young child backpacking without
    the worry that she might fall in the lake or wander off when my mind is
    on something else.
    
    As an aside note, my mother's life was probably saved by being on a
    harness.  She attempted to jump after an apple she threw overboard on
    a ship when she was 2.  The harness stopped her in mid-leap.  My vote
    is firmly on harnesses until kids are old enough to stay by you at all
    times.
    
    Meg  

    We used the zip on harness for our oldest (8) and the wrist cord with the
    youngest (now almost 5).  It definitely gives the child exploration
    freedom while Mom and Dad are talking or looking at items, but doesn't
    let the child wander to far.
    
    We tested Samantha (youngest) one day before we started using the wrist
    cord.  We were in the back section of a large store and she wandered
    through the store and out into the mall area (about 5 minutes) before
    Dad decided that he had let her wander enough.  She never missed us.  I
    stayed behing and Dad followed her where she would not know it.  This
    scared us into to deciding that all the snide remarks were not going to
    change our mind.  She was never once scared as she wandered off.
    
    If you don't want to deal with the snide remarks and stares, a few
    weeks ago I saw a set in Child World that its a little battery pack
    that fits on the childs belt and you carry the other piece and it beeps
    when the child goes more than a certain distance (can't remember the
    distance).  I plan to buy them for the 2 new babies in our family and
    my sister's 2 year old explorer.

    It's interesting to see how attitudes change over time!  When I first
    started following this conference 5 years ago, this topic came up.  It
    was very controversial, with people flaming at each other both for and
    against these items.
    
    Now, almost all the replies are "for", with a sprinkling of "whatever works
    for you".
    
    What has changed?   

>        <<< Note 356.14 by CIVIC::JANEB "NHAS-IS Project Management" >>>
>                            -< Trends in attitudes >-
>
>    It's interesting to see how attitudes change over time!  When I first
>    started following this conference 5 years ago, this topic came up.  It
>    was very controversial, with people flaming at each other both for and
>    against these items.
>    
>    Now, almost all the replies are "for", with a sprinkling of "whatever works
>    for you".
>    
>    What has changed?   

The one's who flamed had kids! :)

    I readily admit to being a user of the wrist type restraint.  I guess
    my primary decision is that it's small enough to fit into the diaper
    bag to glove compartment, not sure the zip kind is, plus I think he'd
    be less aware of the wrist restraint than this cumbersome thing that
    goes over the clothes, jacket etc. (Do they have to be bought in sizes,
    considering they seem to go Over everything?)
    
    Our rule is that if AJ runs ("bails-out") more than twice out comes the
    "leash".  Believe me I had nothing to do with the name, HE came up with
    that one!  The only time I've put it on in less than two offenses was
    at the Kids Fair at the Centrum last spring.  I lost him in the crowds
    of THOUSANDS, in case you were among the two or three dozen parents who
    didn't attend, and nearly frieked out only to discover him less than
    six feet away.  I don't really care what *other* people think or say,
    this is MY child not theirs, I'm bringing him up the best I know how,
    and it's MY hearbreak not theirs if he's lost of injured!
    
    I used his stroller as long as I could in places like the mall, since
    he tends to get pooped out long before my shopping is done, all that
    walking, plus since he is borderline hyperactive he's a little more 
    controlled, and I don't have to worry about him tearing down the store!
    
    Lyn
    

    I used the zip up the back harnesses on my kids, and used leashes
    too!!!  It worked beautifully on my twins, who kept me hopping trying
    to follow them in a mall.  Who cares what people think.  
    
    On my thrid child I tried the FP HandHolder, but found it wasn't as
    easily managed as a harness/leash arrangement.  The child kept getting
    tangled up in it, as did I.  With the leash I seemed to amnage better,
    perhaps all those years walking my Lab!!
    
    Actually, in talking to people my Mom's age (70ish) who were parents in
    the 50s, harnesses were quite acceptable.  It was the 60s crowd that
    frowned upon it, and perhaps 70s.  The previous noter was right tho',
    those people are now parents, and recognize the value of some of the
    "old" ways.
    

   My little "Rocket scientist" (Off the planet, most of the time!) thinks
   malls are a good place to run and explore. He doesn't have any problem
   undoing the velcro wrist strap. Can some one point me at a place in
   Southern NH where I can get a proper harness.
   
   q
   

    I have used a harness on my 3 1/2 year old for the last 1 1/2 years.
    She also had no problem undoing the velcro on the wrist strap (all that
    practice on her sneakers?).  I don't notice the stares and have only 
    heard a few comments, mostly as in "what a good idea".
    
    I believe I got mine in child world but I have seen them in other
    stores since then.  Look for the fist years/infant aisle.
    
    Donna
    

    One quick suggestion about undoing the velcro afound the wrist,
    
    slide it through a belt loop in back, or under the overall straps, or
    whatever.  
    
    Sue

    Where would one buy a walking harness?
    
    Mark
    

    You can buy them in Sears, Child World, Toys R Us.  Look in the section
    where they sell bottles, teething rings, rattles, and all the little
    things that you need to stock your shelves when the little one arrives;
    you know the aisle where everything you need is hanging up on pegs,
    just out of reach.  
    
    Or... ask!  ;*}
    

    although it *does* look odd to see a child on the end of a line, I
    agree with the usefulness!
    
    What baffles me is when the restraints are used in a quiet park. 
    Yesterday I saw a young child with his mother and grandparents.  The
    child had on a harness and his grandmother was throwing a ball for him
    to run after.  I think *she* did more running than he did!  The park is
    very safe, with plenty of places of play away from traffic and other
    hazards.  It just puzzled me as to why the child had on a harness while
    his grandmother was trying to play with him.  Oh well.
    
    Given the speed at which kids travel, I can well understand the need
    for some device in a crowded place, or where there's traffic.
    
    
    Judi