Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Well, you asked for opinions, here goes.
    
    First age 2 1/2 is the age at which "the terrible two's" begins.  It's
    been my experience this is when they become Mr. Independence, and time
    to push mom away.  So don't be offended if he doesn't want you helping
    him, cudling him, etc. at this time.  Don't push it, he'll come out of
    it!
    
    More than that though, it's time to start rewarding good behaviour.  My
    kids are NEVER allowed to watch TV in the morning until: they are
    dressed, beds are made, teeth are brushed.  After these are done, they
    may go downstairs and watch TV until I come down for breakfast.  They
    may not watch TV during breakfast, but may do so for a few minutes
    after, if there is time.
    
    While I understand your need to have some "quality" time with him in
    the morning, he may prefer at this age toj be a little more on his own,
    perhaps play by himself.  You need to respect that, and perhaps back
    off a little.  Leave him be, he will come to you when he feels the
    need.
    
    You may want to try using the things he enjoys doing, like watching
    Sesame street in the morning, as a reward for getting himself dressed
    etc, without a lot of fuss.  Reward him for good behaviour, time outs
    for bad.  And stick to it!  Nothing is gained by giving in.
    
    My kids are 5, 5, 4, and 1.  Our mornings have been structured this way
    since day 1, and we rarely have major problems getting out of the house
    in the morning.  Sure, we have some, and kids certainly go through
    stages that you just have to work around.   But the thing I've learned
    about raising kids is they respect rules if they are firmly and fairly
    administered.
    

    We find the get-dressed-before-you-come-downstairs routine works
    very well for us, too.
    
    Steven and I used to pick out the clothes he would wear the next
    day the night before, so they were there waiting for him.  It
    seemed to make a connection in his mind that he wasn't going to be
    home all morning.  Sort of like "Oh, yeah, that's right, I have to
    go to Cynthia's now."  
    
    --bonnie

    I too agree with the get-dressed-before-you-go-downstairs routine. With
    my 2.5 year old it works pretty well. But some days he just does not
    want to cooperate. Usually I just tell him that I am going downstairs
    to get breakfast and if he wants to come down he will have to get
    dressed as well. Sesame Street isn't on in the mornings in the UK
    (it is on at 1pm when the kids nap!!!) so the tv isn't even on. If it
    was, I'd NEVER get him away from out of the house.  
    
    My son has a 15 mintue routine before we are out the door every
    weekday. We then have a 50 mintue commute together where we spend our
    "quality time". On weekends we usually get out of our pj's after our
    afternoon nap, so long as I don't have errands to run, because we all
    spend the morning quietly playing together. He knows the
    difference between weekdays and weekends by the routine. 
    
    If you're taking the time to change his diaper, you might as well go
    all the way and put on his clothes. Maybe start with the botom-half
    first and work up to his full dress. 
    
    My son drives my crazy because I cannot get him out of the bathtub
    anymore and then he wants to run around naked. He's gotten a few
    spankings on a wet rear when he wouldn't even let me dry him off and
    well deserved it.
    
    I'm glad I'm not alone in my daily battles!!!
    
    Hang in there - the Trying Three's are next!!
    Andrea      

Well, Kate, if you're "neglecto mom" for not spending quality time with
your kiddo in the morning, then I'm "non-existant mom" 'cause I leave
for work before Kathryne is up!

Is he at the point where he wants to or can dress himself?  It might
work a little smoother if you two got his clothing ready the night
before.  You could still do diaper duty, then he could get dressed.

Liz

    Another option that works for us with Ryan (2 yrs old) is to have him
    choose a toy or something to bring in with him to the bedroom while he
    gets dressed, after eating breakfast.  It's easier to remove him from
    the sight of Sesame St. since we're not contending with the visuals
    while putting jersey etc. on.
    

    Since he doesn't eat much (if any) breakfast, he may as well get
    dressed first thing, I guess.  The reason why I never did before was
    because he used to eat breakfast and get it all down his front.  I
    figured it was just easier to get dressed after breakfast.  He still
    isn't at the "dress myself" stage -- he's getting there, I suppose.
    I always lay out his clothes the night before anyway.  Perhaps we'll
    see if he can struggle into them by himself tomorrow morning.
    
    Re .1:  I wouldn't mind not wanting to cuddle as much if he wouldn't
    put a stranglehold on me when I try to leave him at the sitter's!
    
    I'm ready to try almost anything.  How long should I give each
    technique before abandoning it for something else

    Another thing I remember from Steven at this age is that he wanted
    to have more control over his environment and his routine.  That
    was why it was important that he helped pick out his clothes -- I
    didn't give him infinite choice, but I'd hold up two or three
    sweaters or whatever and he'd pick the one he wanted.  It's quite
    likely that refusing to get dressed stems partly from trying to
    assert more control.  If you can find something important to him
    that he can control, he might be less difficult about the things
    you need to keep charge of.
    
    It's probably a good idea to let him do as much of the dressing as
    he can.  Maybe he can pull on his pants, then you help with his
    shirt, then he can put on his socks, then you do the shoes, or
    something like that. 
    
    I hadn't thought of the mess issue -- Steven was always a tidy
    eater.  You could have him put an oversize t-shirt over his
    clothes while he eats, sort of like an apron.  
    
    --bonnie

    I think bonnie is right that it generally boils down to a control
    issue.  And yielding as much control as is practical (e.g. letting the
    kid pick out the clothes) is usually a good idea, and will save you
    some fights.  But neither it nor any other trick will eliminate
    tantrums, and they don't imply that you are a meany or the kid is bad. 
    Wanting to broaden their sphere of control is a positive developmental
    step, but not painless (either for terrible twos, or for fours, or . . .
    for teens!).  They seem to need to be too greedy, and try to fend off
    _any_ outside constraints for awhile, at least in some spheres.  There
    are likely to be times when you can't get any clothes on in the morning
    without brute force.  It doesn't necessarily have any connection with
    anticipating daycare.  One of my kids went through a stage (brief in
    retrospect, seemingly endless at the time) when he had a tantrum every
    morning leaving home for pre-school, and again every evening leaving
    pre-school for home.  Being flexible and patient made no difference.
    
    Tantrums in kids do sometimes provoke tantrums in parents, i.e.
    spankings.  While a few of these may be inevitable, that doesn't make
    them constructive.  I haven't yet met a child who chose to have a
    tantrum, or enjoyed it.  Punishment for one won't do much except
    distract attention from the conflicting inner feelings at the root of
    the problem, and make it seem that your hand on his butt is the cause
    of the pain.  Thus I don't think "this kid had it coming" means much
    more than "I got mad and threw a fit, too."  But that's not awful.
    
    Of course, kids differ in their tantrum propensities.  But it has
    almost seemed to me that each comes along with a certain quota of
    tantrums that they have to use up on _something_, almost regardless of
    clever parental strategies.
    
    		- Bruce

    Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.  TV is non-existant in our
    house in the morning.  I get up at 5 to shower and watch the news until 6,
    that's the rule the TV is on until 6am and ONLY for news.  (It's my 
    pampering to have a half hour to myself and coffee cup!)  Then dad gets his
    bathroom time, while I get dressed, Then we wake up AJ (usually about
    6:30). Even at 2.5 it might be time to show him to head to the bathroom 
    when he wakes up to go "weewee" or just sit and wake up a little, then 
    brush his teeth and wash his face and hands.  He gets his bath at
    night, which I think is pretty common.  Then he gets dressed, at 
    that age he could handle putting on his socks and shoes, we'd tie the 
    laces of course.  Then it's time for breakfast, I did and Still do use 
    some kind of bib over his clothes to keep spills to a minimum.  And from 
    there it's out the door, we have to leave between 7 and 7:15 to do our 
    35+/- minute commute.  Besides, I didn't think Sesamie Street even came on
    til 7am?  If we stopped for TV at home we'd NEVER get out the door! 
    
    Bottom line, I'd say save the TV until you get to the sitters!
    
    Lyn

I would like to get some input from other parent who have children that are
between 2.5-3yrs.  My son seems to be undergoing some real behavioral changes.

Matt is 2.9 and in the last 2 months he has gone from being an pretty easy going 
child to this very defiant(sp?) little boy.  Everything is no and I'm having a 
real hard time getting him to listen.  For example, Every morning with out a
doubt we have a wrestling match just trying to get him dressed.  I end up
losing my patience and he ends up crying.  I have tried to talk to him but 
nothing seems to work.  It seems that he looks forward to these little 
spars in the A.M.


Unfortunately, this does'nt make for a very pleasant morning.  I have the same 
problem just getting his winter coat on!   By the way, this happens anytime I
try to dress him.  I hope this stage ends soon... I'm afraid I might not survive
it. Now I'm beginning to understand what they mean by the "TERRIBLE TWO'S"

P.S. he seem to be this way more with me than with anyone else.  His daycare
teacher told me he is one of the best behaved children she has, which makes me
wonder if were talking about the same kid?

-Frustrated Mom

    Ryan went through the very same "nastiness" a few months ago, though it
    also occured a couple times at daycare as well.  It helped me a lot to
    go back and read Penelope Leach's intro on toddlerhood - this really is
    their phase of learning independence at the same time they struggle
    with still being a baby.  We try to give him choices as much as
    possible (e.g. where and when to get dressed) but also let him know
    that things need to be done (5 minutes til bedtime....) soon.
    
    Suddenly, after feeling like Mom the Terrible, the phase eased off. We
    still have days of it from time to time, but not the horrid nastiness
    of a few months ago.
    
    I've also been meaning to get one of the books "Your Two Year Old", as
    I've heard that it's pretty insightful.
    
    Best of luck,
    

    
    
    Ian is now 2.9 years old also, and we seem to be just leaving this
    phase.  Things that worked for us:
    
      1.  Warnings that certain things are about to happen, e.g.,
          "in a couple of minutes we will be getting dressed"
    
      2.  Straight forward reasoning, e.g., " we need to get dressed
          because we are going to day care / its cold outside / "
    
      3.  Taking him out in his pajamas with his clothes in a bag
    
      4.  Teaching him to express his feelings rather than argue some
          point, "I am angry because .... "
    
    Then there are methods bordering bribery - "when you are dressed
          you can watch a video / watch Sesame Street / eat breakfast.
    

    My Eric is 2.3, but he is already impossible to deal with.  He
    also hates to get dressed up.  And not just getting dressed, it
    is almost impossible to get him to do anything.  My solution is
    - ignore him.  In the morning, when he refused to get dressed,
    I would tell him that I don't have time to wait for him, he will
    either get dressed and go to school or he have to stay home
    alone, I will be leaving for work.  And I will just get my
    things and get into my car.  This usually gets him run after me.
    However, sometimes nothing would work, I will just have to force
    him.  He ends up screaming and crying.
    
    My neighbor's 3 year old also hates to get dressed.  She makes
    me believe that I am not alone in this and it is just a stage.
    
    Wendy

  Stephen age 2 and 9 months is also one of those who HATES to get dressed.
  He would run around all day naked if he could!  I try to treat the
  whole thing cut and dry.  "It is time to get dressed.  You need to sit
  on the stairs until you are ready to get dressed."  

  Sometimes he will sit there until he says "ok, I'm ready to get dressed",
  other times he screams and eventually I wrestle with him and get his 
  clothes on...other times I dress him while he is watching Sesame Street
  or reading a book so he is distracted. 

  Such are the battles of having a 2 year old, eh?!

  Happy wrestling.

  Karin

    It sounds like he isn't dressing himself yet?  I would suggest
    encouraging him to do at least the easy parts himself.  David was
    doing a good job of putting on t-shirts, sweat pants, socks, and
    such by this age.  The shirts were not on frontwards all the time,
    and the socks were often crooked, but so what?  Whatever you can do to
    make him feel like he's at least somewhat in control of the situation,
    the less balkiness you will get (in general - sometimes there'll be a
    confrontation no matter how hard you try).  Also, do whatever you can
    to avoid rushing him in the morning (I know, impossible), because
    being told "now do this - quickly! - I mean it, right now!" over and
    over is also going to make him feel like he has no control over the
    situation and that will contribute to the problem.  Maybe get some of
    what you now do in the morning taken care of the night before (making
    lunches, getting out clothes, gathering all your things together for
    work, etc.) to allow a little more slack time?

    It *is* a stage, it *will* get better, and independence is a good thing!
    Good luck,
		cheryl

    Kelsey, 3 in January, goes through phases of "sassiness".  It was at
    its peak about 3 months ago.  Now it usually occurs just a couple of
    times a day!  
    
    For conquering the dress battle, I usually let her pick her own
    clothes out for the days she goes to daycare.  She is quite proud when
    she does and gets her self dressed, too.  I only intervene when the
    outfit is either not warm enough (sundresses won't do now!) or a dress
    that needs to be saved for special times.  She must have picked up my 
    obsession for color-coordination!  Her outfits usually match quite well!
    
    She is also going through the "I only want to wear dresses " and "I
    don't like pajamas - only nighties"!   She also loves her "ballerina"
    slip and has worn that too (with a turtleneck underneath for warmth)!!
    She went through a phase of wearing her snow boats in the fall , and
    her my scarfs around her head and neck!  Boy did *I* get strange
    looks!!
    
    When the days that I want to pick out something, I either ask her if I
    can or tell her why I need to.  She generally pretty agreeable.
    
    Gosh, I've heard that *girls* are pretty particular about what the
    wear, but I never thought it would start now!!
    
    -Laurel
    
    I thought she was into the "3" stage - and beyond the terrible twos! 
    

    My son was -- still is -- very picky about what he'd wear at that
    age, while my daughter would throw on any old t-shirt or sweater
    and jeans and be ready for the day.  It helped a lot to let Steven
    pick out his own clothes, and it helped even more to pick them out
    the night before and lay them on a chair in his room, where they
    were ready and waiting for him when he got up.  It seemed to
    remind him that he had chosen them, that he had some control over
    his life.  
    
    I found that I had to be careful with the threats, because
    something too scary would simply terrorize him with what was going
    to happen if he failed.  And I also learned not to make any
    threats that I wasn't willing to carry through.  The kid's going
    to call your bluff.  Deep down he *knows* you're not going to
    leave him home alone all day.  Though there were times when I was
    tempted . . . dragging him to daycare in his pajamas with his
    clothes in the bag is an effective threat, though.  He called our
    bluff once, and when he got as  far as the car door, he quit
    struggling and said, very meekly, "Put me down, I'll get dressed." 
    And he did. 
    
    --bonnie

    I quite agree with bonnie about not using empty threats.
    
    It reminds me of a time a few score years ago when on vacation with my
    family in Arizona, age about 8.  My big brother and I were fighting,
    and we got the too common threat "Stop fighting, you two, or you will
    get out and walk the rest of the way to [wherever]."  As we were
    already bored, this held no terror, and we escalated the squabble;
    their bluff being called, our parents finally ejected us (to our
    delight).  They drove on aheads somewhere, and we wandered through the
    desert beside the road (this was pre-Interstate).  I was a bit of an
    amateur herpetologist, and spotted a good sized snake a ways off under
    a cactus.  It turned out to be a rattlesnake, to my delight, since we
    didn't have them back in the mid-west.  We decided we needed to get
    close enough to see it well, and hear its rattle, and this turned out to be
    very close indeed.  About this point, my parents gave up their pretense
    of driving ahead, and backed up to collect us.  They weren't quite so
    delighted to hear about our little adventure as we were to tell about
    it.  On the other hand, they never again threatened to make us walk.
    
    To this day, I occasionally hear the sentence "Stop fighting, you two,
    or you will get out and walk the rest of the way to [wherever] . . ."
    coming out of my OWN mouth when driving along with two battling boys. 
    I almost always manage to choke it off before it makes it all the way
    out.     :^}
    
    			- Bruce

    I agree with letting the child help pick out his own clothes.
    It worked for my daughter when she was going through this stage.
    
    I also made a game of dressing asking for some help from a
    "Tweety Bird" puppet.  Somehow if Tweety Bird was saying, "ok,
    now it's time to put on the panties.  OH, aren't these the nicest
    pink.  Can I wear these.  etc..."  Anyway, Tweety Bird helped me
    to dress her for a couple of weeks before she just started helping
    out herself.  It didn't add too much to the time it takes to dress
    her and it worked!
    
    Anyway, good luck and try not to make it a battle.  Provide choices
    -- even choices like do you want to put on your shirt first or your
    pants? seem to give the child some power over their own destiny.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Diana