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Conference moira::parenting_v3

Title:Parenting
Notice:READ 1.27 BEFORE WRITING
Moderator:CSC32::DUBOIS
Created:Wed May 30 1990
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1364
Total number of notes:23848

314.0. "Why won't my son eat ?" by CURRNT::GURRAN (My reality or yours ?) Thu Sep 06 1990 12:30

    First the background...
    
    Alexander is 15 months old and weighs in at 21 lb 7 oz (9.6kg), I am
    not sure of his hieght. Needless to say this weight has only been
    gained through several months of self-fasting, resulting in a near
    nervous breakdown for his Mum, Sue.
    This weight is an all time high for Alexander, for the last 2 months he
    has been stuck at 21 lbs. 
    
    He has never been particularly impressed by food; he disliked breast       
    feeding, he was ok on the bottle and started on baby food at about 5
    months. I think he started on real food at about 8 months and on milk
    when he reached 20lbs. The milk had to be bolied for a couple of weeks
    before he could keep it down. He also has had 3 bad bouts of gastro
    -enteritus, one lasted a couple of weeks when he lost most of his
    weight.
    
    Now the problem...
    
    Currently Alexander will only eat Pears ( fresh, or in syrup for extra
    calories), cucumber, raisens, tomato, milk chocolate drops,  and
    frankfurter sausages.
    This can total up to about 200-300 calories a day out of a recommended
    1200 for a child his age. The milk can bring it up to 900 especially if
    we use Fresubin a vitamin & calorie enhanced milk drink. 
    
    The last couple of weeks have seen a downturn on even this meagre
    amount. He refuses to eat of a spoon if we hold it, or take food from
    our hands, he cannot yet eat from a spoon properly though he has a good
    try, and will often spit out any food that gets in his mouth.
    
    Obviously he won't starve himself to death and will take some food,
    enough to keep him going as he is quite active, but Sue has now got to
    the stage where she cries all night worrying about it.
    
    Does anyone know of similar children, or anything that might cause him
    to not want to eat, and how to give him an appetite back?
    
    Thanks for reading through,
    any ideas or thoughts will be gratefully received.
    
    
    Martin
    
    
    
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314.1Try mixing foods - favorites and nonLEZAH::MINERThu Sep 06 1990 13:1827
    I don't know if this is any consolation, but my 2nd child, Tommy,
    is 23 months old and only weighs 23 lbs.  He's in the 75% percentile
    height and only the 10% weight.  The pediatrician says that I shouldn't
    worry because he isn't anemic, he's eating, just not in the quantities
    that I would like.  Also his father would probably register in the
    same percentiles, 75% height, 10-15% weight, so there is some genetics
    working here too.
    
    May Alexander is just at a stage where he'd rather be doing than
    eating.  If you find that he will eat some things, give him those as
    long as they are healthy.  I find that Tommy goes through stages of
    loving certain foods and then hating them a week later, only to return
    to them a month later.  Keep trying new and old foods.  Put his
    favorites in something that he doesn't necessarily like, like Pears
    on top of yoghurt or on hot cereal.  He might eat some if he tastes
    the pears in there.
    
    As long as the doctor considers him to be in adequate health for his
    age, try not to worry.  
    
    p.s.  We found that Tommy would reject food that we gave him but if
    he sat on our lap while we ate the same food off our own plate, he
    would eat all of ours!  Strange, but true.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Dorothy
314.2Keep trying...HYSTER::DELISLEThu Sep 06 1990 13:2438
    Have you discussed this with your pediatrician?  What does he have to
    say about it?
    
    My youngest is a year old, and is getting into the only wanting to eat
    whatever he can feed himself syndrome.  Refusing my feeding him, yet
    not really being able to feed himself the foods I would like him to
    eat, which require a spoon or fork.  What I try to do is give him some
    finger foods, bananas let's say, and sit beside him with a bowl of
    cereal and milk and pop a spoonful of cereal into his mouth whenever I
    can (rather whenever he'll let me!).
    
    Another thing you might try is spearing a piece of food onto a fork,
    then handing the fork to him to put into his mouth.  I am starting to
    do this with raviolis, which all my kids LOVE, are quite healthy, but
    are incredibly MESSY! :-)
    
    Have you continued trying to introduce new foods?  One thing I learned
    was, even tho a child may refuse a food one day, on another day they
    may decide they love it.  And vice versa.
    
    Some of the things Josh likes are: peanut butter and jelly sandwiches,
    hot dogs, spagetti with meat sauce, bananas, canned fruit, grapes,
    Cinnamon Life cereal that's reached the soggy stage and is thus
    chewable for him, Cheerios also soggy, Fig Newtons, Ritz crackers with
    peanut butter in the middle, tomatoes, corn, peas, pizza!, bread and
    butter, raisin english muffins, sometimes yogurt, and any kind of
    pasta, plain or with tomato sauce.
    
    Another thing, does your son ever eat with other children?  It never
    ceases to amaze me how other kids can influence the eating habits of
    kids.  Peer pressure starts early!  Does he see other kids eating
    things you might want him to try?  Sometimes it works wonders if you
    can put him with other kids his age or even a little older.
    
    But try to take heart.  A work mate of mine has a daughter who is now
    five, who he swore absolutely grew up on nothing more than peanut
    butter on bread, and water.  Refused EVERYTHING else!
    
314.3hintsELMAGO::PHUNTLEYThu Sep 06 1990 13:5329
    My Josh (14.5 months) has also become quite selective in his eating.
    Here's some things that have helped:
    
    Josh will eat more if he is allowed to sit on the kitchen floor
    rather than in his high chair.
    He likes his vegetables frozen (got this hint from another noter)
    and straight from the package.
    Will eat chicken if he is allowed to eat it from the bone but not
    cut up.  (We watch him closely for bones)
    Loves breakfast more than any other meal so we pack on the calories
    then.  (oatmeal, micro sausage, peanut butter pancakes, a cup of
    cheerios mixed with raisins--refuses any milk with his cereal)
    Offer nutricious snacks throughout the day.  His daycare thinks
    he eats very well, so apparently other kids do influence him to
    eat.
    Josh loves cold pizza anytime.
    Cheese sticks
    Fish sticks
    Basically, if i make the meal a power struggle Joshua will not eat,
    if I relax and just accept whatever Josh will eat things go much
    better.
    
    Remember, at this age the growth has slowed dramatically, so it
    makes sense that the appetite also slows.
    
    Relax, the kid may slim down but he isn't going to become anorexic
    at this age.
    
    pam
314.4sounds pretty "normal"TIPTOE::STOLICNYThu Sep 06 1990 14:0320
    re: .1 and .3
    
    It comes as some consolation that mine is not the only boy that isn't
    too happy about eating dinner in his highchair.   In fact, he eats
    best when we try to shovel it in while he's in motion.   He also
    tends to linger in the chair a bit longer when we eat outdoors, but
    those days are numbered.
    
    I keep trying to make him sit in the chair through the meal but it
    gets kinda ugly.  I tend to let him down or hold him but am worried
    that he is getting spoiled.  What do you think?
    
    At just about a year, Jason is getting very selective about what
    he'll eat and letting me know when he doesn't want something (splat!).
    He'll eat something everyday for days and then up and spit it out
    the next day.   So, to the basenoter, it sounds like your son is 
    pretty "normal"....and remember that old saying "this too shall
    pass".
    
    cj/
314.5JURAN::QAR_TEMPThu Sep 06 1990 14:5313
    M son Joey 13 1/2 mo. is the same way.  Today as a matter of fact I
    asked my sitter if he eat's for her because he refuses to eat dinner.
    This has gone on for a couple of weeks now a few bites here and there
    and thats it. He will fuss till I take him out of his highchair.  Joey
    weighs 19 lbs. very short legged. not sure inches (baby book in diaper
    bag).  I told my pediatrician whats been happening and she said at
    least he's not losing weight, if they start to lose weight it's a whole
    differant story.  Could be the teeth, or just a stage they go through.
    Hope this helps.  If you hear of anything please let me know!!
    
    -Concerned Mom
    
    
314.6If he's healthy why worry?CSC32::M_EVANSThu Sep 06 1990 14:5818
    I had a breatharian child also.  Perfectly healthy, and eats what she
    needs for her growth pattern which has always been slow.  (10th
    percentile until this year)  Instead of focusing on her growth or lack
    there of I focused on the positives:  She was easy to carry until this
    year when at 4 1/2 she topped 38 lbs.  Honestly they will discover food
    when they are ready.  My Dr. also has a fireball who doesn't gain wait
    at expected norms, so she doesn't worry much either, now.  Until Allie
    was born, she used to fuss over Carrie's lack of growth, but now dr.
    Laura has had one of her own.
    
    One thing to remember, we aren't raising Herfords or prize pigs.  These
    are children who grow and learn at their own rate.  As long as they are
    healthy and happy and progressing, dont worry.
    
    On another note Lolita my oldest was the same way.  She is now 16, 5'6"
    and 118 lbs.  This from another slow growth baby.
    
    Meg 
314.7normalTLE::RANDALLliving on another planetThu Sep 06 1990 15:1057
    Kat, who's now a healthy active intelligent attractive 16, lived
    for about a year and a half (from about 16 months to about 3
    years) on a diet that consisted of:

    A small handful of dry Cheerios and a small glass of milk for 
         breakfast 
    2 tablespoons of cottage cheese and a small glass of Hawaiian 
         punch for lunch (occasionally a canned peach half)
    A few bites of steamed carrots, a tablespoon of mashed potatoes, 
         and one or two Gerber meat sticks for dinner, with milk 
         or Hawaiian punch.
    Ice cream or M&Ms candies whenever she could talk us into it. 

    Towards the end of this phase, she added ravioli and cheddar
    cheese to her repertoire.

    She was so skinny she didn't even make it up to the bottom of the
    doctor's percentile charts.  But except for being thin and having
    no appetite, she was perfectly healthy, so I just fed her what she
    wanted and tried not to worry.  I figured that if I pressured her
    to eat, I was teaching her to disregard her own body's signals
    about when she was hungry or full, and in the long run that would
    cause more problems than being skinny would.  

    Is this the same Alexander who was just in the hospital for
    surgery?  That could easily affect his appetite and his eating
    patterns.   But it's a perfectly normal stage; it sounds like your
    wife needs more comfort and attention than your son does.  

    I notice that most of the foods he likes are pretty nutritious
    things.  It would probably be best for his overall health to up
    his intake of complex carbohydrates and perhaps fats without
    introducing too many empty calories.  Have you tried some
    nutrient-dense, high-energy foods like nuts?  Peanut butter is
    often popular with kids, or you could try a cereal with almonds in
    it, or mixing a handful of chopped walnuts in with his raisins.
    Cheese on whole-wheat crackers is another snack some kids like a
    lot.   Some kids won't eat cereal plain, but they will eat it if
    you mix fruit -- banana slices, raisins, berries -- into it.  Or
    try toast or waffles or French toast with sweetened fruit instead
    of, or in addition to, syrup.

    Those are just some ideas that come to mind.  Oh, and some kids
    have small stomachs and can't eat a very large meal; they need
    extra snacks during the day.  Make sure they're nutritious snacks. 

    We have a rule that if you want to eat something, you eat it
    sitting at a chair in the kitchen.  Beverages and popcorn are
    exceptions, and the deck is an allowable substitute for the
    kitchen.  This is true for adults as well as for kids of whatever
    age.  We do this mostly to keep the mess confined to one area with
    an easily cleaned floor.  We don't make a scene about it -- if one
    of the kids wants to play more than they want to eat, that's fine,
    they can get down.  But they can't come back to the table for more
    food until after everyone else has finished eating. 

    --bonnie
314.8I had the same problem...MLCSSE::LANDRYjust passen' by...and goin' nowhereThu Sep 06 1990 17:1728
    
    My oldest daughter (age 10) has never been much of an eater.  She
    wouldn't breastfeed and her bottle feeding wasn't much to brag about
    either.  She ate what she wanted to and when.  (Although I did try
    to keep her to a schedule with in-between snacks.)
    
    She still isn't much of an eater.
    
    Now, why am I not worried?  Because when I was little I about a
    tablespoon and a half of food every day.  My parents went bonkers
    trying to get me to eat.  They tried everything from begging, to
    bribing to punishment - EVERYTHING.  Once I had to stay at the table
    until I finished my dinner.  I stayed there until 10:00 (I was about
    8 and it was a school night!!!) and fell asleep at the table.
    Eventually I went to bed without having to finish the dinner.  Anyway,
    I'm very healthy for the most part.  I never had trouble keeping
    up with my friends.  Always had plenty of energy.  I was just real
    small.
    
    So, I'm not going to push Juli if she doesn't want to eat.  Of course,
    if she doesn't eat meals, she doesn't get goodies.  I'll let her
    have carrot sticks and stuff like that between "meals".
    
    Don't worry.  Just make sure that your little one is healthy and
    nothing else is the  problem.
    
    
    jean
314.9Switch to a booster seat??ICS::NELSONKFri Sep 07 1990 20:2512
    For those noters whose kids don't like the high chair any more.
    Have you tried switching them to a booster seat?  We did this
    with James when he was about 20 months, and it improved his
    mealtime behavior dramatically.
    
    Try not to fuss.  If your kid will drink milk, flavor it with
    Ovaltine once in a while for a treat.  Ovaltine is very nutritious,
    and most kids enjoy it.  
    
    This morning, James ate graham crackers, raisins, juice and
    Ovaltine for breakfast.  Most mornings, all his wants is juice
    and "my vi-min-min."
314.10FWIWTHEBUS::JENSENTue Sep 11 1990 15:3723
    
    Martin:
    
    Our daughter is close is age and size to your son.  She's 20# at 1 year
    and we've been struggling with her over her "lack of interest" in food
    UNTIL she started at the sitter's a few weeks ago ... and then we
    discovered that:
    
    She'll eat IF she has her own spoon in the other hand (doing nothing
    but waving the air!)
    She prefers finger foods:
    	.  diced boiled hotdog  (yuck!)
    	.  toast with a thin film of pnut butter or jelly
    	.  grilled cheese sandwich
    	.  boiled macaroni's, egg noodles, spagetti (etc.....) - no sauce!
    	.  CHEESE cubes!! and crackers (oyster, ritz, butter, saltines ...)
    	.  scrambled eggs (which she eats with her fingers!)
    	.  diced cheeseburger (not really her favorite, though)
    	.  Trix cereal, raisin bran, rice/wheat Chex (overdosed on
           Cheerios - and now doesn't like them) ... DRY! ... with
           a diced REAL banana
        .  raisins, Pepperidge Farm goldfish and flutters, pretzel sticks,
           slice of fruit (apple, pear ...), popcorn!, 
314.11Snap! I've got a fussy 15 month old tooMAJORS::RUMBELOWThree twoderful five wordsWed Sep 12 1990 11:2441
    I can really sympathise with this.  My 15 month old (Alison) weighs in
    at 19.5 lb, and has given me a lot of heartache over her feeding habits
    since the day she was born! I never got her to breastfeed, she was
    really slow taking to solids, even slower taking to real food and now
    has a small appetite and is a fussy eater.  Oh how I envy people whose
    children are like baby birds - keeping their mouths open to gulp down
    spoonfulls of whatever's offered to them.  Fortunately Alison has a
    lot of redeeming features which make up for her erratic eating habits!
    
    I cope by having absolute faith that Alison is the only person who knows 
    how much and what Alison wants to eat.  If she refuses food I might
    feel like saying "You ungrateful child, how could you refuse this meal
    which your mummy has lovingly prepared" but instead I take a deep
    breath and say "OK honey, if you really don't want it, you don't have
    to eat it, after all, you know best how hungry you are".  That calms me
    down and stops me getting too upset.  If she refuses a new food, I do
    try re-introducing it a few days later - babies do often spit out
    anything that's different, but when it stops being different, they may 
    find they like it.  Also I don't try to introduce a new food as a
    complete meal, but as a little taste during a meal that I know she
    likes.  I think it's up to me to carry on offering her nutritious meals, 
    but she does have the right to refuse them!
    
    Also I have found that Alison has got a lot better about eating if we
    have our meals at the same time.  She tries to copy us, and has got
    a lot better about using a spoon herself.  I think it makes mealtimes
    more relaxed - it takes the pressure off her because I am not just
    concentrating on feeding her, but on feeding myself as well.  She seems
    to eat better without so much attention directed on her.
    
    I hate to given advice because every child is different, and I can only
    say what works for me and my child, but I would say forget about
    calories and try to relax and trust Alexander to know how much, or how
    little he wants to eat.  If he is active and happy, then he must be
    getting enough to eat.  
    
    Hope this has been some help
    
    - Janet
    
    
314.12the "attention" factor makes the dif.CLOSET::FONTAINEWed Sep 12 1990 16:2123
    
    Janet hit the nail on the head with Andrew when she said her daughter
    did much better at eating when there wasn't alot of attention on her.
    
    Geez Janet, where were you about two months ago?  I could have used
    that suggestion BIG TIME.  We just figured out that if there's a 
    "spot light" on Andrew (13 mos) when he's eating he's more inclined to
    spit food out and act silly.  Now we just treat him like he's one of many
    and he's more inclined to eat the right way.   And when he's getting
    tired of the food, I give him the spoon and he feels himself with it.
    He's really good at it too, but sometimes I have to assisted in getting
    the food on the spoon.  That trick is good for a few extra bites that
    he wouldn't have normally eaten.
    
    I've finally learned that he'll eat what he eats and I've also learned
    that if he doesn't eat he'll get no jello for dessert.
    Hopefully he'll soon make the connection that eat food = eat jello.
    He's a jello fanatic.  I used to give him jello even if he didn't eat
    his dinner just to get something into him, but I guess that kind of
    defeats the purpose and he knew that no matter what he'd get jello, no
    more though.
    
    Nancy
314.13Switch locations?BRAT::SCHUBERTWed Sep 12 1990 17:4414
    My son went thru these stages also.  What I used to do is get a
    plateful of fruit, 'specially watermellon (his favorite), some
    raisens, crackers and cheese, put on the TV to one of his
    favorite cartoons or shows and tell him NOT TO TOUCH THAT PLATE.
    
    Well, that would start it rolling, I'd leave the room to wash the
    dishes or some domestic chore and come back into the room, and he
    would be standing their giggling wildly with a mouth full of something.
    
    Before you know it, he would just clean the entire plate off.  He just
    didn't like to eat at the suppertable! So we just switched locations
    and he did just fine.
    
    Alex is now 40 pounds, 39 inches at 3.5 years old.
314.14How come YOU can and I can't MOM??NRADM::TRIPPLMon Sep 17 1990 19:2823
    AJ is a kid who never got out of the 20th percentile until last year.  We 
    "thought" we had this problem with AJ, what we discovered was that
    he was eating so much *it was good stuff* at daycare that he just
    wasn't hungry at supper time.  My provider will give her charges
    goodthings like yogurt, graham crackers, cheese and whole grain
    crackers. Beverages are always a pure juice (jucy-juice) or low fat
    milk, never soda no sugary things allowed.  I figure if he's eating enough
    during the day, why make dinner an unpleasant scene?  But I do insist on 
    him staying at the table while you eat, even if he isn't!  This is the
    child who's been requesting cucumbers since he was old enough to say
    the word, and his favorite restaurant is Abdow's for Soup and Salad!
    
    A related question: a recent thing while visiting my inlaws is they
    give him ovaltine in his milk "just because".  He never fusses over
    drinking plain milk, we don't use those things.  Occationally at home
    he will request chocolate milk, we tell him that's something special
    just at grampa's house, but on occation he see me do either Instant
    Breakfast or Slim-fast, simply because it's quick and fewer calories
    than a pastry.  So how do I explain to him that mom can have chocolate
    milk and he can't??   HELP!!
    
    Lyn
    
314.15QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centTue Sep 18 1990 15:4211
Re: .14

>              Beverages are always a pure juice (jucy-juice) or low fat
>    milk, never soda no sugary things allowed. 

Clearly you've never tasted Juicy-Juice, if you think it isn't sugary!
True, it has "no added sugar", but it is high in juices that have heavy
sugar contents.  I've stopped buying it in favor of less sickeningly-sweet
juices.

				Steve
314.16Interesting articleFDCV07::HSCOTTLynn Hanley-ScottTue Sep 18 1990 19:2645
    re .14  Chocolate milk
    
    Taken from the Tufts University Diet & Nutrition Letter, Aug. 1990
    
    CHOCOLATE MILK MAKES THE GRADE
    
    One cup of milk contributes at least one-fourth the recommended dietary
    allowance of calcium for schoolage children and adolescents, making
    it one of the best sources of that bone-building mineral for growing
    youngsters. but when a child doesn't particularly like the taste of
    milk, getting him/her to drink it often becomes a frustrating struggle.
    That's particularly true when the well-meaning parents prohibit their
    little ones from drinking chocolate-flavored milk, believing it's
    a decidedly unacceptable alternative to unflavored varieties.
    
    But "chocolate-flavored" is not necessarily synonymous with "less than
    healthful" when it comes to milk. It may, in fact, be a simple solution
    to a child who otherwise avoids milk altogether. Consider the results
    of a recent look at the school lunch consumption of sixth graders in
    two New York city classrooms. Upon measuring the actual amounts of
    food the students ate and drank at nine separate lunch periods, New
    York University researchers found that when offered whole milk, 1%
    fat milk, or 1% fat chocolate-flavored milk, the students always
    drank more of the chocolate choice, thereby taking in more calcium.
    
    What's more, compared to lunches washed down with whole milk, the
    overall fat content of meals that included the chocolate-flavored milk
    were more in line with the guideline now recommended for those over the
    age of two to consume less than 30 percent of calories as fat. That
    makes sense, given the fact that both whole and 1% fat chocolate
    flavored milk contain the same number of calories (about 150 per cup)
    whereas the chocolate-flavored version contains far less fat: 23
    calories, as compared with the 72 in whole milk.
    
    Granted, in the best of all possible worlds children going through the
    lunch line or home refrigerator would reach for 1% fat milk or skim
    milk - particularly if they are overweight - thereby avoiding not only
    the fat of whole milk but also the extra calories added by the
    chocolate flavoring (about 50 per cup, mostly in the form of sugar, in
    the brands that come with the chocolate already mixed in). Still, for
    the milk resistant youngster whose calcium consumption tends to be on
    the low side, 1% fat chocolate-flavored milk may well be just what the
    doctor ordered.
    
    
314.17KAOFS::S_BROOKOriginalty is only undetected plagiarismTue Sep 18 1990 20:2315
    re .14 and .15
    
    
    There are many unsweetened juices that are just as sweet as soda pop!
    Now, ideally you want to give the kids more than just the sugar in
    pop but, sometimes too much juice isn't too good for them either
    (diahorreah etc) ...
    
    Now, I don't want to get into the battle of the sugars again in another
    note, but I tend to treat juice like most other sugary drinks.  It
    makes the 2-3 spoonsful of sugar in a glass of chocolate milk look
    like a diet drik by comparison.  (juices have 6-8 spoonsful of sucrose
    equivalent sugar in them per cup)
    
    Stuart
314.18Juice-aholicMCIS2::WALTONWed Sep 19 1990 14:1112
    I had this conversation with my pedi a few weeks ago.
    
    After discussing Robby's diet, he labeled him a "Juice-aholic"
    
    This is actually not a joke.  After he gets a drink of juice, he gets
    enough of a sugar high (from the 'unsweetened' juices, no less...) to
    carry him for an hour or two, full of energy, and he doesn't really
    feel hungry.  And when he askes for more juice, of course I gave it to
    him.  This cycle goes on, and he is pretty much not hungry for most of
    the day.  We are now in the process of completely cutting out juice, going
    to just milk and water for one month.  I am going to watch his appetite
    very closely for the next month, and see if it improves.  
314.19Weaning?FDCV07::HSCOTTLynn Hanley-ScottWed Sep 19 1990 15:194
    Maybe a way to wean him from the juice is to gradually increase the
    ratio of water in the cup.
    
    
314.20Dilution is GREAT idea!!!NEURON::REEVESWed Sep 19 1990 15:4311
    re: .19
    
    	Since my 11 month old is diabetic, the doctor's and nutritionist 
    recommended diluting his juices too.  I have found it to work out 
    wonderfully, not only is he getting less sugar (we use no sugar added)
    in his diet, but he is getting the water that he really needs. 
    	I usually mix 1 part juice to 3 parts water. 
    
    FWIW, 
    Malinda
    
314.21Another "Juiceaholic"CAPNET::AGULEWed Sep 19 1990 16:559
    The "Juiceaholic" in .17 sounds just like Katie.  She has always been a
    drinker, with a bad appetite for "food".  It's been a real problem in
    our house too.  I talked to our pedi he said at her age they don't want
    to take the time to sit down and eat, kids would rather drink quick be
    filled up then GO.   I have a question, when you add water to juices,
    does the child also not get filled up as much, or does the water fill
    them up too?
    
    Karen
314.22NEURON::REEVESWed Sep 19 1990 18:279
    re: -1
    
    	In our case Shayne seems to be just as satisfied with diluted juice 
    as with any other fluid, however when the nutrionist told us he must 
    have a morning, afternoon and evening snack she suggested formula and 
    not juice, but I think that was because he needs more of a protein
    snack than just a filler. 
    
    Malinda
314.23Add "bubbles" to juiceCURIE::DERAMOFri Sep 21 1990 16:386
    We dilute our son's juice, too -- but at his request.  Since mom and 
    dad drink a lot of seltzer, Nick just has to have some: he requests 
    "bubbles" in his juice.  The mix is about 50/50. The juice is apple or 
    orange. The seltzer is unflavored, made at home.      
    
    
314.24Juicy Juice is AWFUL!NRADM::TRIPPLFri Sep 21 1990 19:0510
    I DID try juicy juice well before AJ was a glimmer!  It was awful, I
    swore I'd never ask a kid to drink it!  I do only Apple and white grape
    juice in out house, the kind of colors that have un-stainable colors if
    spilled!  I buy the juice by the case either at BJ's or at the Veryfine
    factory.
    
    Still looking for ideas on what to do about "mom's" "chocolate milk.
    
    Lyn
    
314.25bad news on chocolate milkRDVAX::COLLIERBruce CollierWed Sep 26 1990 15:4016
    In re: .16
    
    It is true that milk is the main ingrediant of chocolate milk, and that
    milk comes with plenty of calcium.  However, chocolate chemically
    combines with the calcium in a way that makes it indigestible.  Thus
    most of the calcium in chocolate milk is not absorbed by the body. 
    Thus the whole is less than the sum of its parts, which the Tufts
    article didn't take into account.
    
    I came across this last night reading an interesting book called
    "Kitchen Science" (which I judge to be quite reliable).  It deals with
    the physics, chemistry, and biochemistry of cooking and eating; not
    just what you should and shouldn't do, but why.  Fairly enjoyable, too;
    not heavy going.  Currently available in paperback.
    
    		- Bruce
314.26My note was misinterpretedNRADM::TRIPPLWed Sep 26 1990 17:2620
    I think somewhere in this discussion my whole point has been missed so
    let's try to ask it again.
    
    AJ gets chocolate milk only rarely, only as a treat at grampa's house. 
    I don't even own anything stonger than sugar free hot chocolate powder,
    and that about a box a winter.  He drinks plain (1%) milk quite
    willingly, infact he'd consume over 2 of the tupperware sippy cups at a
    meal if we let him.
    
    My question is more of explaination of the apparent lack of equality.
    Since I will do either an instant breakfast or Slim Fast which gives
    the appearance that I'm drinking chocolate milk, which it isn't.  He
    seems more upset that I can drink chocolate milk but he can't, not that
    he's refusing to drink milk without chocolate flavor.  I've tried
    telling him it's "special chocolate milk for mom", and even let him
    have the last sip or two, but not sure that's the right approach.
    
    Any suggestions?
    Lyn
    
314.27TIPTOE::STOLICNYWed Sep 26 1990 17:319
    Here's my suggestion, Lyn:
    
    Drink your slim fast or instant breakfast when AJ isn't around
    and avoid the conflict.   Or, drink it from an opaque cup so as
    not to draw attention to the fact that you're doing something that
    he can't.   Maybe I'll draw flames on this, but I don't believe
    in "do as I say, not as I do".
    
    carol
314.28TCC::HEFFELIf I were a whale, I'd beach myself!Wed Sep 26 1990 18:558
	Another vote for forego it.

	(We try not to have things around the house that we don't want Katie 
to have.  This actually has benefitted me as well.  I'm sure the lack of 
chips and cookies and so on in the house was a factor in  my recently losing 
40 pounds.)

Tracey
314.29Ovaltine???TLE::RANDALLliving on another planetThu Sep 27 1990 12:5511
    You  might want to check out the label on Ovaltine and see if
    that's something you would be willing to let AJ have.  We used to
    drink it when I was little, and I've been told it's heavily used
    in Europe.  I know it's got malt and some other supposed nutrition
    boosters in it.  There is a chocolate flavor, but the plain kind
    has a sort of chocolatey taste without any chocolate in it.
    
    Then he could have some of that when you have your "chocolate"
    milk.
    
    --bonnie
314.30Older but no better - MarthaWMOIS::RAINVILLEThe view from the edge.Sat Nov 24 1990 22:2928
 I have a similar problem, but with a much older child. My son is almost
nine years old and only weighs 58 lbs. He is of average height for his
age, but buying clothes for him is difficult. Even the slim sizes are
too big around the waist! David was a good eater as a baby, it was only when
he got to be about 2 or a little older that he became so selective. He
currently eats no vegetables, no poultry except Burger King chicken
tenders, and the only beef he eats is a cheeseburger or meatloaf.He doesn't
eat any potatoes, rice or beans. Basically, his diet consists of plain
pizza, cheeseburgers, grilled cheese, meatloaf and spaghetti (he prefers
spaghettio's to homemade). He doesn't even eat peanut butter anymore!
He has gone from eating everything to gradually eliminating almost
everything from his diet. He won't even eat at McDonald's anymore.
I worry because everything he really likes is high in cholesterol,
but when you have a child like David you tend to be grateful for
anything he will eat! His younger sister eats everything that is 
healthy....her favorite meal is a salad bar!
One tip to Alexander's mom....when both my children no longer wanted
me to feed them, I would make them soup. The veggies in the soup I
would put on the tray of the high chair and while they were busy
feeding themselves that, I would slip in spoons of the broth. 
This worked well in restaurants, too. In my daughter's case, she
was insisting on feeding herself long before she had teeth. I used to
make sandwiches of the baby food meats and cut them into very small
cubes. She could handle those and was so happy to be feeding herself
that she would gobble them up with no complaints. Don't worry about
the mess of self - feeding. A baby's independence is very precious
to him and worth the extra clean-up if it encourages better eating.
You can always do what we did... get a dog to handle the spills!!!