Conference moira::parenting_v3

    Nadine,
    Keep on talking to him! You are his very best "teacher" of language.
    Speak to him in whole sentences and do not censor your vocabulary...he
    will understand more than you can imagine, and will get most of the
    "hard" words from the context, or the repeated usage. And they all talk
    at vastly different times! I remember our first son said very little
    for what seemed like the longest time. Long after his age-mates were
    putting 2 and 3 words together, he was still in the one-word-at-a-time
    stage. When he was 16 mos., he had a vocabulary of maybe 15 "words"
    (mostly recognizable only to mom and dad!), and we had occasion to
    visit with my cousin and her husband and 17.5 month old. This kid
    talked in paragraphs! And used pretty sophisticated language/concepts
    for her age (Look, Mommy! That's a scary picture there on that book
    cover! Do you see it? Don't be scared...I'll hold you!) And our kid
    stood there going, "ma", "da", "bye", etc.  He was almost 2 before he
    started combining 2 or more words into "sentences", but progressed
    quickly form there (and he hasn't shut up since!). Our daughter began
    "talking" at about 6-7 mos., with "ma", "da", etc. By 1 yr., she was
    using 2 or 3 words together correctly ("see ball? Want it! Go get!")
    By the time she was 2 she could converse quite fluently with any
    reasonably intelligent adult, and be clearly understood. Her grasp of
    language/vocabulary, etc., continue to astound us. And our third child,
    now 16 mos., is much like his brother, saying only about 5 or 6
    recognizable "words". 
    So....the short of the long is this....they are all so VERY different,
    and if you are talking and rading to your child, I wouldn't worry a
    bit. He will learn at his own rate. If you ARE worried, anyhow, talk to
    your doctor for reassurance, and I'll bet they'll say the exact same
    thing. Keep on talking, keep on reading, and watch him grow! They're
    all such fun!
    --dave--

    Like .1, every child grows at his own rate.  Don't worry.  Just
    keep doing what you are doing.  My son is  like .1's daughter,
    start talking at a very young age (6 months old).  He just turned
    two and can speak very complicated sentences in both English and
    Chinese.  However, one of my best friend is a late talker, according 
    to her Mom, she didn't start talking sentences until 3/4 years old.
    Now at 31, she is a marketing manager, and is the last person
    in the world that you want to have an argument with :-)).
                                                             
    Wendy

    Nadine,
    
    Like the other noters said, they all progress at their own rate. You
    cannot force your son to speak but you can encourage him to keep
    trying, which sounds exactly like what you are doing. My son sounds
    exactly like your's is. Mine walked at 9 months, observed EVERYTHING
    but didn't say too much - maybe a 12 word vocabulary at 1 year. At
    about 18 months his vocabulary was getting better but no "sentences". 
    I think at age 2 they should be "speaking in short sentences" according
    to the experts but they never define short sentence ("yes" is a short
    sentence and so is "I've got an itch on my head").  They do pick up the
    nouns first (cloud, dog, cat, etc) and then they seem to add a verb
    (see cloud, dog sit, cat eat, etc). It then expands more and more.
    We did encourage our son to "add on" words by asking him questions
    worded such that he had to respond with thought and real words. Asking
    do you "see the cloud in the sky?" means you should get a yes or no
    answer. You asked a leading question but asking "what's up in the sky?"
    or just saying "let's look up in the sky, what do you see?"
    will give you the answer of "cloud" and cause the child to really look
    at the sky and maybe ask you what something else is up there (an
    airplane, the sun, birds flying). There is a book I liked called
    "Raising Children Who Love to Learn". It is from the Children's
    Television Workshop series and I got it in a local bookstore. I gives
    you ideas on how to get the child to think, observe, etc so every
    moment of their day can be interesting and develop a natural
    inquisitive (sp) nature so learning is fun and part of life. I think 
    you will like it because your note sounds like our general philosophy 
    to educating our children, and the process does start from birth. The 
    book is light reading and takes you from infancy to school-age.
    
    It is very hard to not want our children to progess rapidly and believe
    me they grow in all repsects at an incredible rate. I know it was very
    difficult for us having a child who was physically advanced of the
    average and wonder why his speech wasn't as advanced at the same time. 
    Well, he more than makes up for it now. Many people have commented of
    how diverse his vocabulary is (because we speak to him in adult terms
    using simple explanations) and how good his command is for formulating
    the whole picture. Keep talking - it's the only way. We talk constantly
    together (I think that's key). Hold conversations with the words he
    knows and expand on them (like "dog sit", "see dog", etc). You are
    adding words he will learn to words he knows and eventually the words
    will go from one object to another.
    
    Happy Parenting!!
    Andrea

>    It is very hard to not want our children to progess rapidly and believe
>    me they grow in all repsects at an incredible rate. I know it was very
>    difficult for us having a child who was physically advanced of the
>    average and wonder why his speech wasn't as advanced at the same time. 
    
    According to the child development stuff I studied when I was
    planning to be an elementary school teacher (jr. high, actually),
    this is the normal pattern of development for most normal kids at
    any age. Not a rule, just a general pattern. 
    
    While they're concentrating on developing one aspect of their
    skills, other skills will tend to lag behind.  For instance, a
    child who is anxious to learn to walk won't be paying as much
    attention to words, while a child who's very advanced visually and
    likes to study the details of things may not be as active. 
    
    This tends to hold true at all ages -- a teenager who has suddenly
    made a breakthrough in social skills may have his/her grades drop,
    for instance.  
    
    There's also a phenomenon called plateau development, in which a
    child who has reached a certain level of skill stays at that level
    or sometimes even regresses for some time and appears to be
    unable to move past that level.  But what's usually happening is
    that the child is consolodating a great deal of information, and
    at the end of the plateau will generally have a "bursting out"
    phase of very rapid advancement. 
    
    You usually don't notice the plateaus in a child who's working on
    alternate skills -- while one skill is in a plateau, other skills
    are advancing.  
    
    Steven's normal mode of development is the plateau.  He'll make
    huge advances, then suddenly start being fussy, whiny, clingy,
    demanding, and generally acting at least a year younger than his
    age.  Then a few weeks later it it will end just as suddenly, and
    we'll discover that he's grown an inch, learned to throw a
    fastball, and added what seems to be about 500 words to the list
    of words he can read . . . 
    
    And some kids just aren't good verbally.  They can be way above
    average at ideas, mathematical concepts, and other intellectual
    pursuits, and still not be able to frame a complex sentence.  This
    can be very hard for academically oriented parents to take, but it
    is normal.
    
    --bonnie

    Re:  definition of simple sentences
    
    When they say most kids are talking in simple sentences by x age,
    they're talking about grammatical simplicity, as a measure of
    linguistic accomplishment, not necessarily about the complexity or
    sophistication of the ideas the child's expressing. 
    
    A simple sentence is one that has a subject, a verb, and other
    associated modifiers, but no subordinate or coordinate clauses or
    other stuff hanging off the end.  The first sentence of this
    paragraph is not a simple sentence.  It's a compound sentence. 
    The next two sentences are simple sentences.  However, if I were
    to add some more stuff at the front, just for the sake of example,
    I would wind up making a complex sentence like this one, with a
    subjunctive clause, and it would improve the world if most people
    avoided that kind of thing even after their language matured to
    the point where they could attempt it. :)
    
    --bonnie

    
    Thank you so much everyone for the quick responses! It really means
    a lot to me and I love to hear the advice from Moms who had been 
    there.   
    
    -Nadine (concerned_first_time_mom)
    

    Well by now, the kid should know the theory of relativity as well as be
    able to do quadraditic equations. :')
    
    But seriously, the kids will progress at their speed, not at the speed
    you want them to.  Our first was speaking fluently before she was 1.5,
    our second one is over 1.5 and only says a very few words.  Our pedi
    says, does she get what she wants?  My wife says, "yes"  He says what
    do you mean she isn't communicating?
    
    Mike

    RE Bonnie's reply. 
    
    You are so right about the development of one skill over another. I
    know we were very excited about Berk learning to walk young so we
    probalby backed off on speech. Your explanation of "plateauing" is dead
    on with my son but does go unnoticed because he is working on another
    skill and suddenly he can pedal or remember 10 songs perfectly and we
    cannot figure out for the life of us where it clicked along the way.
    I'm going to pay attention to see if he "regresses" prior to
    "bursting". Is this typical to regress?? He's been clingy lately so
    maybe he's "learned" something new. 
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Andrea
                                       

    >Is this typical to regress?? He's been clingy lately so
    >maybe he's "learned" something new. 
    
    Typical, yes, but not necessary, and there are lots of other
    causes of clinginess.  Illness and emotional stress come to mind. 
    But if neither of those seem to apply, it's quite likely to be a
    plateau (also called a consolidation period -- I think there are
    other names, depending on whose theory of child development you're
    following).
    
    --bonnie

    Re: Bonnie's reply on plateaus...
    
    So what does it mean if they do it all at once....walking and talking
    in sentences at an early age, as well as understanding some pretty
    difficult stuff. Does this mean you have a child who is able to
    process alot of information at once? Or does the child simply handle
    the stress of developement well? 
    
    Suppose a child says several words at 6 months, walks at 9 months
    with a very large vocab. and speaks in simple 2-3 word sentences at 
    10-11 months. A child that seems on the level of a 5 year old at
    only 2.5.....
    
    Is this a child you should present with additional
    learning opportunities (if they are interested...wouldn't want to
    push). What kind of thing would you do with her?
    
    Just wondering...any suggestions for learning activities?
    
    Dot

    Dot --
    
    What you've presented is one commonly used definition of a "gifted
    child"  -- one who's ahead of schedule in all areas.  This is the
    kind of child who's most likely to be bored by the routine of
    school and to want to press ahead in all areas . . . it's not an
    area of child development I'm terribly familiar with, other than
    knowing that the opinion among educators is that it's as damanging
    to hold back a gifted child as it is to push a child who's not
    ready.
    
    Activities -- generally the child will lead you.  If s/he is
    interested in words, you can play word games, flash cards, get
    activity books for a higher level, introduce them to more
    complicated books.  If s/he's interested in science, dig out some
    hands-on activity books from your library.  
    
    This will be true of kids who are talented in a particular area as
    well as for the child who's generally gifted.  Steven *did*
    actually know his colors at about 2, and the pedi was impressed,
    but while he continues to be average-bright generally, he displays
    a real artistic flare -- seems to be a born abstractionist. 
    Rather interesting.  But I'm digressing.
    
    It's not uncommon for a child who develops quickly at first to
    slow down at about age 8 or 9 and have the children who were slow
    going through the early stages catch up and often pass them.  
    
    Reading early, by the way, isn't a sign of giftedness by itself.  
    
    One of the most important things for developing a child who is
    interested in learning -- no matter what his or her native
    "intelligence" level -- is to expose them to many activities,
    ideas, and experiences.  Go places that interest you and them.  Do
    things.  Read magazines.  Watch TV, drop in on sidewalk concerts
    (even if you hate the music), wander through a farmer's market,
    drive through the countryside, make applesauce or mudpies, sew a
    shirt for a stuffed animal. etc. etc. etc.
    
    --bonnie

    Thanks Bonnie.
    
    Since we are moving to Pennsylvania in 2 weeks, and I may have the
    opportunity to work part time or not have to work at all, I will
    have more time to spend on those kind of fun learning activities.
    My daughter, Aisha is the one I was talking about. She amazes me
    everyday with her vocabulary and the concepts she can discuss at
    only 2.5. We read alot, and talk alot, and sometimes we make bread
    together or she helps me clean. I was showing her how to right her
    name, and she was very excited about it, but I think I need to use
    a different approach as far as that goes. Her skills with a pencil
    aren't at the right level for it yet I geuss. I have to start out
    much slower.
    
    Like I said, I hope to spend more time with my kids (her brother
    Jacob seems to be pretty sharp too, although she is the talker)
    when we move.                                                  
    
    Dot

    I am a first time Mom, and this is what I have learnt in 16 months of
    parenting:
    
    1.  Children/babies will do things (ie start walking, start talking
    etc) when they are physically ready and when they want to.  They are
    not interested in the fact that someone else's baby is the same age as
    them, but has been walking, etc for months, now.  They can be
    encouraged but they cannot be hurried or forced.
    
    2.  Whatever age your child is when s/he first develops a new skill,
    someone else's child will have done the same thing at an earlier age,
    and someone else's child will have done it at a later age.
    
    3.  Whatever age your child is when s/he first displays that new skill
    to you, you will think that they are the cleverest child in the whole
    world.
    
    I write this as the mommy of a little girl who didn't smile until she
    was 2 months old, couldn't roll over until she was seven months old,
    couldn't sit up unsupported until 8 months old, didn't walk until she
    was 14 months old, and at 16 months old can just about say five or six
    words.  It's lovely hearing about all the advanced babies that all you
    noters have.  My little girl isn't advanced.  She hasn't got any 
    developmental problems - she does everything well within the average 
    age-range, she just isn't advanced.  But that doesn't stop me feeling 
    so pround of her that I could burst  especially when she learns a new 
    skill.  As far as I'm concerned she's developing at exactly the right 
    rate for her.
    
    - Elizabeth
    
                                           

    Thanks for putting this in, Elizabeth -- and congratulations on
    your charming wonderful daughter. 
    
    --bonnie

    Thanks, Elizabeth!   carol

	Yet another thanks for that note....

	It's SOOOOOOOO true!

Tracey

Re .13:

The lessons here are certainly comforting, but there is a flip side.  My son
is 15 months old and achieved his physical milestones about the same age as 
Elizabeth's daughter.  But in his case there _are_ developmental delays, and he
has been in occupational and speech therapy, which has helped him tremendously.

We are very proud when he picks up new skills -- maybe even more so than
parents who can take for granted that their children are functioning normally.

If the milestones seem late in coming, there may or may not be a cause for
concern.  It's _extremely_ difficult to diagnose developmental delays that
are not severe in infants.  But we have found professionals skilled enough
to point out to us ways of helping our son early.  And we are grateful for
the help we have gotten.

    Anyone remember, or have a book you can look this up, regarding giving
    a personality to a toy?  My 2 year old (just turned 2 in December) was
    playing with my husband, and my husband started to "talk" for the toy.
    He expected David to also "talk" for the toy he was holding.  I think 2
    is a little young for this?  As an example:
    Dad:  (holding a FP Firefighter) "Hi. I'm Larry.  Who are you?"
    David (also holding a FP Firefighter) "What?"
    My husband repeated it, and encouraged David to say "Hi, I'm Joe", but
    David just continued to say "What?"
    Yesterday I heard David conversing with the same toys, but he was
    talking "to" them instead of "for" them.  Is this a developmental
    milestone, or something he will learn through play?  When did your
    children start doing this?
    Sarah