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Conference moira::parenting_v3

Title:Parenting
Notice:READ 1.27 BEFORE WRITING
Moderator:CSC32::DUBOIS
Created:Wed May 30 1990
Last Modified:Tue May 27 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1364
Total number of notes:23848

122.0. "peer rejection and name-calling" by BUFFER::CHOW () Wed Jul 11 1990 19:45

	What do you parents do when you kid is rejected or made fun of by 
	other kids?  Leah is now two years old and within the past month 
	or so has run into two occasions where Jan and I are visiting 
	friends who have children or grandchildren that are 6 months to a 
	few years older than Leah.  On both occasions the two children/
	grandchildren are out in the yard playing together with something 
	when Leah wanders out and wants to join in.  The children/
	grandchildren said, "No...you can't...you're too young" (or you're 
	too whatever).  Both times we could see that Leah was upset and on 
	the second time she started to cry.  Neither the host parents or 
	grandparents were around to say otherwise to the kids so we did our 
	best to explain it to Leah and try to make her feel better.  I 
	suppose that in time, I'll get better at reasoning with little kids 
	and explaining the virtues of sharing.  However, I also expect that 
	in the future, there'll be times when neither Jan or I will be there 
	to talk with the other children and have to explain to Leah, after 
	the fact, that there are just some kids who are selfish, mean and 
	just not very nice.  I also expect that because of Leah & Cory's 
	mixed racial heritage that there will be times when Jan & I will 
	have to provide comfort and some explanation to our daughters 
	after being called chinks/japs/gooks/slant-eyes/half-breeds/whatever.

	What do you tell your kids after they've been called "fatso","string-
	bean", "shorty", "four-eyes" or whatever by other kids?

	Is this one of the situations where you break the news to your kid
	that there are all kinds of people out there and not all of them
	are nice?

	Milton
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122.1COOKIE::HOEHi hoe, hi hoe, it's Sammy Hoe's we go!Wed Jul 11 1990 20:4225
	Milton

I think that you might be over sensitive. BUT, I know what you
mean. My sister takes Josh to her inlaws, they have two sons who
are 5 and 7 and they will have nothing to do with Josh who's 3.
They also have a different life style. The parents takes the kids
out to eat at Mac's while my sister cooks for her family as well
as holding a government consultant job.

My son is adopted. He's Japanese-American, I am Chinese-Canadian
and my spouse is American with a mix of German and French. We
will be facing those impolite, racial slurs when it happens (like
I went through when I was a kid). I was removed from "friend's"
houses when ever such terms were brought out by the kids. My
parents believe the kid's attitudes are a reflection of the
parent's so my folks never graced the doors of folks who have
belligerant kids.

I hope that you might see the difference between kids not wanting
to play with little ones versus kids who espouse racial slurs. I
am sometimes glad that Sammy won't play with bigger kids since he
runs infront of older kids and they may not see him and hurt him
(like infront of a kid sliding down sa slide).

calvin
122.2Lots of issues hereSHARE::SATOWWed Jul 11 1990 21:5368
122.3imhoMLCSSE::LANDRYjust passen' by...and goin' nowhereThu Jul 12 1990 12:3723
    
    It sounds to me like your child was sort of the "third wheel" in
    this game which was already started with the other two.  In other
    words, "we've already established our relationship with eachother
    and you don't fit in right now."  Kids (and often adults) don't
    know how to handle 3-way relationships.  One on one is fine.  But
    you start to get more than that and someone is bound to get hurt.
    
    I agree with .2 about starting another topic about racially mixed
    families.  However, my short reply to that is that I really *HOPE*
    you're being overly sensitive.  I'm not from a racially mixed family
    nor am I a partner in one, but I hope I've taught my children that
    "kids is kids" or "people is people".  There are nice people and
    not so nice people...in all shades and sizes.
    
    I agree that maybe a solution would be to invite a friend of the
    little one's along so she won't be left out.  I have 2 girls ages
    10 and 6 and often one is left out (usually the youngest).  If I
    invite someone for her to play with it really helps a lot, otherwise
    be prepared to devote a lot of your time to entertaining her.
    
    
    jean
122.4It's Pecking OrderHYSTER::DELISLEThu Jul 12 1990 14:2323
    It sounds to me your daughter was left out because she was much younger
    than the others.  If she is two, and the others some years older, I'm
    not surprised they didn't want to play with her.  It has (probably not
    having been ther eto witness it) nothing to do with racism, but has a
    lot to do with agism.  Kids are very AGE conscious when they hit about
    3 1/2 or 4.  They become aware of the status of age, of what they are
    permitted to do as they age, what they are capable of doing as they age
    etc.
    
    Having four children between the ages of 10 months and 5, I see this
    all the time.  I hear about it at the dinner table, on the swingset, in
    the backyard.  "Jacob can't come cause he's only 4..."  Joshua's not
    allowed to play with that cause he's too young..."  "We're going with
    Daddy cause we're OLDER..."
    
    It's their way of making sense out of their world, and of acquiring an
    identity.  It's their way of establishing a pecking order.  And
    unfortunately it can hurt.  What you could have tried to do is to be
    the OLDEST one in their group for a period of time and include your
    daughter in that group.  As the oldest, you would have had the highest
    pecking order, and been able to include her.  But it would have
    required you to play with the group for awhile.
    
122.5great responses so farAQUA::SAMBERGFri Jul 13 1990 14:3019
	These have all been great responses. Children have to be
	encouraged to be generous and thoughtful.  Some are more
	naturally so, but it's still a skill to be learned, and at
	3 or 4, it is still hard to reason with them -- in fact as
	we all know, they can be pretty rigid as it is their way
	to deal with a big, scary world.

	I have tried hard to instill generousity and thoughtfulness
	in my kids. There are times when Leah (9) "naturally"
	includes the Matthew (6) in play, there are times when I
	ask Leah to include Matthew, and there are times I realize it
	would be unfair to Leah to have Matthew included.

	And I have found friends of the kids that have or have learned this
	skill and some who haven't.  And kids have to have some resilency
	and understand they will meet plenty of kids who haven't.

	Eileen

122.6RDVAX::COLLIERBruce CollierFri Jul 13 1990 15:0723
    .0 > The children/	grandchildren said, "No...you can't...you're too
    .0 > young" (or you're too whatever).  Both times we could see that 
    .0 > Leah was upset and on the second time she started to cry.  
    
    Don't overreact to this one.  I would be surprised if Leah doesn't feel
    that she is treated this way all the time, at the hands of (oh horrors)
    her parents!  Now, her parents doubtless try to confine "you're not big
    enough . . ." or the like to cases where it is fairly literally true,
    or where an attempted activity would be unsafe for a toddler.  Those
    other kids may be excluding her more because they don't want to be
    bothered.  But it is unlikely that Leah follows that distinction, and
    she's probably more hurt when her parents are the "nasty" ones.  I know
    that Eric (4) is much more likely to have a fit when I tell him that he
    isn't big enough to do something than when his big brother tells him
    that.
    
    I am certainly in favor of teaching kids to be sensitive to others'
    feelings, and to try to avoid hurting them needlessly.  But the
    distinction between necessary restraints and needless insults is really
    two subtle for a two year old; so, in effect, they experience the
    latter all the time.
    
    		- Bruce
122.7Crooked SmileCOGITO::FRYEWed Jul 18 1990 20:1229
    Peer rejection is a tough one for me, and an issue that I am having to
    face with Maggie.  It is just amazing how cruel first-graders can be! 
    Maggie has underdeveloped or damaged nerves in the left side of her
    face.  When her face is essentially relaxed it is completely unnoticable.
    But when she laughs or cries her face "pulls" to the right side since
    the muscles in the left side are not getting the signal to do likewise.
    
    Small problem?  You bet from her parents perspective.  We don't even
    notice it.  But she has come home from school crying because she was
    told her face was "inhuman"!  I have found her in the bathroom smiling
    and holding up the other side of her mouth to make it work the same
    way.  She is starting to balk at having her picture taken because she
    has to smile.  It breaks my heart!  (A brief aside - my kids look very
    much alike except for this quirk in Maggie.  Many people tell me how
    beautitiful my son is.......)
    
    In any case, we have had a lot of talks with Maggie about what counts
    in a person - what kind of friend they are, how good a helper they try
    to be, etc.  We have even talked about some things that are different
    about people she cares for a great deal, and how little they matter.
    We also had her pediatrician, who she trusts implicitly, talk about why
    her face is that way, and that it won't get better BUT that it also
    will not get worse.
    
    It all helps a her a little - now what do we do about me!  I just want
    to go down to the school and knock a few heads!  First grade was an
    incredible education - for Maggie's parents!
    
    Norma
122.8BUFFER::CHOWFri Jul 20 1990 18:1649
	In rereading .0, I can see where there may have been some misunder-
	standing because of my mixing the two separate issues of exclusion and 
	racism under the same note.  Thanks Clay, for starting a new note for 
	the latter.  

	I didn't mean to imply that the reaction to Leah were racist.  I think 
	I can recognize racism and the two incidents in question were certainly 
	not.  They were, as some of the previous replies indicated, just kids 
	being kids.  What I found a bit ironically amusing and frustrating was 
	the comment to Leah about being "too young" when the girl who made the 
	comment was, herself, only *5 months* older than Leah. 

	Some of the suggested responses on how to handle the situation next
	time the occasion arises are good and I may try to apply them.
	Although I didn't state it clearly enough in .0, my concerns regarding 
	situations such as those previously described are not only "how do I 
	respond to this situation and correct it" but also, "what, if any, 
	lesson can Leah learn from this?".  Right now, the focus of Leah's 
	socialization process is sharing (or depending upon your perspective, 
	lack of sharing).  If I were the mythical "Superdad", I would have 
	been able to say to Leah something like "Gee...those kids aren't
	being very nice not wanting to play with you and share the ball....
	(take some time out...get Leah involved with the game of kicking the
	ball around)....and then later on reinforcing the lesson by talking
	with Leah and saying something like "Remember when the kids didn't 
	want to share the ball with you and then they did....isn't sharing 
	a lot more fun?".  Perhaps it just a matter of practice.

re: .5
>	Children have to be encouraged to be generous and thoughtful.  

	Agreed. I'm just working on the most effective means of "encouragement".
	It would give me a great deal of parental satisfaction if some time
	down the road, I see Leah involved with a group of kids playing 
	something or other and it is she who makes the initiative to include 
	any "outsiders" into the game.

re: .7
>    In any case, we have had a lot of talks with Maggie about what counts
>    in a person - what kind of friend they are, how good a helper they try
>    to be, etc.  We have even talked about some things that are different
>    about people she cares for a great deal, and how little they matter.

	Good for you! This is the kind of rapport I hope to develop with my 
	daughters as time goes on.  It sounds like you've taken what some may
	have been considered a "handicap" and developed something positive
	out of it.  Way to go!

	Milton