Conference moira::parenting_v3

    I don't think there is any "supposed to" regarding lunches.  Most
    daycare centers provide lunch, I think, but some don't.  I would assume
    for family daycare, you work out whatever arrangement suits everyone
    best.  Personally, I would rather be responsible for Marc's lunches
    (although at this time, he's eating 99% babyfood anyway), so that I
    know what he's eating.

    
    My kid's nursey school/daycare doesn't provide lunch. They do 
    provide 2 snacks  a day. I like that idea even though it is 
    more work, since I have the control over my daughter's diet! 
    
    Before she went to nursery school, she was with 2 different
    licensed providers in NH. One was on a state lunch program
    (subsidized by the state) and she was required to have her lunch
    menu "approved" by a "social worker". I didn't really paid much
    attention since my daughter was still on baby food at that time.
    With the second sitter, my daughter was fed whatever, macaroni
    and cheese, hamburgers, hot dogs, grilled cheese, etc. My kid
    was going through the "living on air" stage, so I was glad she
    was actually eating something, even it might not be the most
    nutritious. 
    
    If I were you, I would pack the kids' lunch instead of trying
    to get the sitter to change her meals (or her own eating habits!)
    
    Eva.

    In my experience, homecare providers give lunch and snack, while
    pre-schools (centers) give snacks but not lunch.  But there is nothing
    that requires this, at least in Massachusetts.
    
    Her offering lunch for an extra charge seems reasonable, but giving
    them less than they want/need is not reasonable, with or without the
    extra charge.  I would want to talk this through with her, even if you
    provide your own lunches.  Did the kids report accurately?  If they say
    they are thirsty at 2:30 does she tell them to wait until snack time at
    4:00?
    
    		- Bruce

My day care provides lunch and two snacks per day.  If you want breakfast it
is $1.00 per day.  That is nice because if you wake up late or have a hectic
morning you can just tell them when you get there, and they will cook up
just about anything the child wants.

When I was looking at another provider right across the street from my office,
the director told me that they are *required* to provide at least 1/2 of the
child's nutritional requirements per day.  This is in Texas and I have never
seen it verified but I would think it is true.

Kristen

    Hi again,
    
    I did question her to see if what the kids said was accurate.  It was
    accurate.  She also said that `MY' kids are hungry all day long and are
    always asking for something to eat.  I really find that so hard to
    believe because both of them have been on a good eating schedule, 3
    good nutritious meals.  The provider said that she gives them
    popsicles, dry cereal, etc for snacks and questioned me whether or not
    I was concerned about their weight because they eat alot. 
    
    I told her that they are used to being on a good eating schedule and to
    not give them dry cereal, candy, pop tarts (all things she gives for
    afternoon snacks) to them.  They love raw veggies for snakes, that's
    what I give them and they never snub it.  I also said that I look to her
    to control the amount of food they eat.  I don't like them eating `junk' 
    food.  I also would prefer they had a good filling lunch so that they
    wouldn't need to ask for food later because they are still hungry.  She
    didn't look to pleased but I figure if I'm paying for them to have lunch,
    it should be nutritious (I don't consider spaghettos by itself
    nutritious) and they should not be leaving the table still hungry.
    
    I guess it was a combination of things that I wasn't too pleased with:
    
    1.  Her advertising a weekly rate that included the lunches and snacks
    2.  Her stating that the lunches were extra after I had decided to
    	place the kids there
    3.  Her lunches and snacks are not very nutritious, and I paying extra
    	for it
    4.  My kids have to leave the table still hungry.
    
    So, I guess box lunches are still the answer.  
    
    Thanks for the responses...I know that the day care center that my son
    attends during the school year does not provide lunches but at least
    the morning and afternoon snack the provide are very nutritious and the
    kids pretty much can have their fill.   I would have kept them their
    for the summer but they closed for the summer.
    
    -LOis-
       

    I think you place too much emphasis on the term "schedule" (as, indeed,
    your provider may, also).   Kids aren't that predictable.  But you also
    have major disagreements with her on nutrtion.  If you can't work them
    out soon to mutual satisfaction, you probably need another provider.
    
    		- Bruce

    "No sharing food."  I'm willing to be Big Mean Mommy on this one,
    because when I pack Alex's lunch, I expect *Alex* to end up on the
    outside of that stuff.  I don't want her trading cheese or fruit or
    whatever for somebody else's Twinkies, or falling prey to "I'll be your
    friend if you let me have some <whatever>."  I don't want to have to
    worry about the condition of Friend's Mother's kitchen (where Friend
    also totes a lunchbox).  So, the rule is that Alex can't be on the
    giving or receiving end of food gifts at school.  (Celebratory cupcakes
    brought in for the whole class on someone's birthday constitute an
    exception.)
    
    The two daycare centers I have experience with provide(d) midmorning and
    midafternoon snacks (juice; fruit or graham crackers or popcorn or...) but
    NOT lunch.  A refrigerator and a microwave are/were available.  They
    usually stock popsicles for minor mouth boo-boos ("I bit my tongue!").

    My daycare provides hot lunches and two snacks throughout the school
    year.  However, during the summer the kids have to "brown bag" it.
    The school still provides two snacks a day.  
    
    The baby goes to a private sitter, and I have to bring everything he's
    going to eat.  Boy, will I be happy when he's old enough to go to
    the older boys' daycare..  ;-)
    
    If I were you, I'd continue with the bag lunches.  It's absurd that 
    she would just give them a bowl of pasta and have that be *it*.  My
    6 year old (a.k.a. "The Hungry Caterpillar) also says he's hungry all
    day, so I tend to ignore it, but I make sure he has three healthy meals
    and an afternoon snack.  Ah, growth spurts...  This from the kid who
    was in the "orchid phase" for what seemed like years...  
                                       

    It's funny that this topic should come up now, as I'm having
    kind of the opposite problem.  My daughter's sitter (who I think
    the world of) is always giving Allyson (mine) what Timmy (hers)
    is eating because "she looks at his food so longingly".  Now,
    Ally's not quite 9 months old yet and I really don't want her to
    be eating all kinds of things that a 2.5 year old eats.  Plus,
    she's introducing new foods too soon and sometimes it's right after
    I've given her something new to try.  I've told her not to, or to
    at least call me at work to find out if it's o.k. to give her
    something new, but she never does.  Last night when I went to pick
    Ally up, she said, "Guess what?  Ally tried peanut butter today."
    I probably would have hit the roof if I had given her something new
    the day before, but I hadn't.  Instead I just sort of wimped out
    and said, "Gee.  I hope she's not too young for peanut butter."
    The end result was that she threw up a zillion times last night and
    I found myself having to give her a bath at 10:00 after her pajamas
    had been changed 3 times.  This morning I told her once again *not*
    to give Ally anything new and to just stick with the food I bring
    for her.  I brought snacks for her *and* Timmy today so hopefully
    there won't be a problem.  I think that she thinks I baby Ally too
    much...  but what the heck - she *is* a baby.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    The my son's daycare center doesn't provide lunch only two
    snacks.  I like this arrangement.  Every parent has different
    idea of what his/her kid should be eating.  In stead of wondering
    whether my son gets enough to eat and whether the food is 
    nutritious, I can just pack his lunch and know he has a good
    diet.  My only problem is, sometimes other kids will have chips
    and cookies at lunch, and he will want the same thing.   And it
    is hard to explain to a 23 months old why he can't have them.
    
    Wendy
    

    Having been a Massachusetts licensed daycare provider, unless the
    rules have changed, meals do not have to be provided.  However,
    the state provides $$ more than enough $$ to cover meals and snacks
    provided the daycare provider agrees to provide meals and snacks
    that meet certain nutritional requirements.
    
    I was licensed for 6 kids and the state would provide for 3 meals 
    and 2 snacks per day per child.  Also, participating in this lunch
    program made me eligible to get certain food items in bulk for 
    free or at a very small charge.
    
    Just for reference, a nice thick peanut butter sandwich meets the
    minimum requirement for protein and bread at lunch time, also a good slice
    of pizza will meet the protein and bread requirment.  Canned spaghetti
    or krafts macaroni and cheese do not meet the requirement for much,
    possibly the starch/bread requirement and that is about it.  The kids 
    always complained that there was to much peanut butter in the sandwich
    or to much cheese in the grilled cheese, but that is the rules in order
    to qualify.  For lunch over and above the protein and starch, you were
    required to provide 8 oz of milk and 2 servings of veggies or fruit.
    Even the 6 and 7 year old boys could not finish the required lunch.
    
    I suggest not paying the $10.00 a week and send your kids to this 
    daycare with a brown bag of their own healthy goodies. She obviously,
    does not care enough to provide something that kids LIKE, IS HEALTHY
    AND FILLING.  
    
    One more thing, don't rule out the dry cereal, the snack requirement
    was a fruit or fruit juice and a bread/cereal.  The kids used to love
    a cup filled with KIX and RAISINS that was their favorite even more
    than orange juice popsicles. The only thing that topped it was 
    peanuts and raisins but I could not afford to buy peanuts very often.
    
    Judie
    
    
    
    

    
    re. 10
    
    My daughter had the same reaction when she first went to nursery 
    school - she discovered REAL junk food for the first time!
    She would tell me that some kids have Twinkies, Ding Dongs or pudding
    for desert. I personally think those things are disgusting.
    I love sweet things, but not things that are made from chemicals
    that I can't pronounce! I kept on giving her fresh fruits for desert
    and she got over that initial shock after a while. She is almost 5 and
    she won't eat applesauce that have sugar added - she thinks it is too
    sweet! I make sure that she gets doses of real cakes, cookies and 
    good candies (like ones that I eat!) once in a while so that she 
    doesn't feel deprived! 
    
    
    Eva.
    

    Thanks for all the replies.  
    
    Well, this morning I asked my kids how lunch went yesterday, did they
    have enough to eat.  They both said `YES' we weren't hungry at all.  So
    I guess that's the solution to the problem.  But I did think it
    mischevious that after 3 weeks of macaroni and cheese or spaghettos for
    lunch, that she buys the other kids pizza the first day my kids start to
    bring their own lunch.  My kids kinda felt left out, they love pizza but
    on the other hand they said they enjoyed their lunch too.  Oh, well. 
    At least I know that they are eating good things and plenty of it.
    
    As for the cereal, I wouldn't mind them having that for a snack if it
    were Kix or the like, but she gives them `junk' cereal loaded with
    sugar.  So that's out.  I think I may provide some kind of natural
    applesauce snack packs or some trail mix that she can keep at her house
    so that she can offer it to the kids, and see if that works.
    
    I know it will take a week or so for things to `settle down' and
    hopefully the situation will lessen and go away.
    
    -Lois-

    Re .9 - i.e., caregiver giving child extra stuff.  I couldn't resist
    telling a story that is amusing now (7 years after the fact).
    
    I finally found a wonderful caregiver, a grandmotherly type with
    just one other baby to watch, and she was so close to where I worked.
    The first day or so with my 2 month old son was great.  Then I
    went to pick him up and she said, "Oh, I hope you don't mind.  He
    was kind of fussy so I gave him bourbon."  I said "What?"  (an obvious
    parity error.  She could't have meant that.)  She repeated "bourbon".
    I took my smiling baby, who burped at me, leaving no doubt that she
    really meant "bourbon".
    
    I stopped using her.  I was afraid about what else I might not have
    been sufficiently explicit about.  I'd neglected to tell her I didn't
    want my son drinking alcohol.  (I wouldn't have DREAMED of taking a sip
    of alcohol while pregnant or nursing.  I wasn't pleased with giving
    it to him straight.)
    
    Radia

    re:.14
    
    After reading your story I'm almost speechless.  Like you, I would
    have removed my child IMMEDIATELY from that woman's care.
    
    - K
    

>>I think I may provide some kind of natural
>>    applesauce snack packs or some trail mix that she can keep at her house


Just buy a big jar of regular store-brand "natural" applesause and save
yourself large $$$$.  I got caught up in buying baby apple juice when
my daughter started on that stuff and WOW is it expensive!  I buy her
Albertson's brand of applesause, nothing added, just apples and pack it
in a small reuseable plastic container.

    not sure if this has been mentioned.

    at our home care provider, we fill out forms that she uses to apply
    for a food subsidy.  She is subsidized for the cost of feeding the
    kids at her day care.  She buys excellent, all-natural, very
    wholesome food and posts the menu every day.  Not sure the amount of
    the subsidy.....possibly not enough to cover the entire cost of
    her lunches due to the food she buys.  but she doesn't charge
    extra for it.

    Perhaps this is a Mass only program....I certainly don't consider it
    a waste of MY tax dollar!
    bob

    I believe the program is in New Hampshire too - my day care provider
    uses it.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe, that in Mass, if a daycare
    provider is subsidized by the state for food, they are not allowed to
    charge the parents extra.  At least this is the way it worked in
    1987/88.
    
    To the Mom who was concerned about her 9 month old eating the same food
    as a 2 1/2 year old...I have two kids, ages 10 months and 2 years 10
    months, and they eat the exact same foods- with the exception of potato
    chips and peanuts.  With my first, I was very nervous about her diet,
    with the second, I am much more relaxed - and the second is just as
    healthy as the first.  Good Luck.
    
    Carol
    

    The food subsidy is a USDA program so it is available in every state. 
    Here in Colorado, it is only available to licensed providers. I'm not
    certain how it all works but I know that my provider does get
    "commodities".  (I have walked in on her grating 45 lbs. of cheese!)
    But she also gets food from the grocery store so I guess there is some
    sort of reimbursement too.
    
    karen

    We used a home day care for a while -- she provided delicious meals --
    only problem was that my son only likes PB&J! I used to drool walking
    in at lunchtime -- smelled much better than "old macdonald's".  At
    one point she had two girls who were vegetarians -- she even bought
    special foods for them.  she didn't charge extra, and would make the
    PB&J for my kid -- on whole wheat bread.  Freaked me out when I
    discovered she was responsible for buying baby food and diapers for the
    babies she had.  I always had to provide my own at the centers.
    
    My youngest is at a center now where they provide two snacks and lunch
    -- only she's so picky that she rarely eats their lunch.  When my son
    was there I still had to provide his lunch -- with no reimbursement [no
    ratholes please] -- but they both eat snacks and drink whatever they
    have as drinks.  They also provide breakfast, but only till 7.30 --
    used to be till 8.30, which was nice because my kids don't like being
    rushed thru meals [what kids do?] and this way I knew they'd at least
    have something to eat.  We're switching centers for the younger one in
    Sept and I'llhave to provide her lunch too -- wonder if I can convince
    her that PB&J and yogurt makes a real good lunch...she's not a bread
    eater so it shouod be LOTS of fun!
    
    Sandy
    

    I need to ask a couple questions as related to this note.
    
    Since I have recently move AJ to a new and much better daycare center
    they have told me they will take care of feeding him breakfast, if I
    send it along and the meal is over by 8:am.  Since breakfast at home is
    very hurried and chaotic at best I'm wondering, to those of you who
    might do this with you centers or providers, what do you send?
    
    Yesterday I sent a box of rice crispies, a diposable spoon and bowl,
    for lack of not knowing what else to do.  They have told me they have a
    microwave available but I really feel like I'm imposing on them asking
    to heat something up.  He will eat cooked oatmeal, and the pancake,
    eggs, french toast type things. I considered those frozen breakfast
    things, like the swanson Great Starts but I wonder if they won't have
    lots of salt, MSG and such.
    
    Any ideas, first on how much I should ask without imposing, and
    secondly if it's to be cold things, what do I send?
    
    Oh and should I send the milk with the cereal or ask them to provide
    the small amount over the cereal?
    
    Lyn

    I've never had to deal with this directly, but .... 
    
    o If you cook french toast/pancakes/waffles ahead of time, you can freeze
      them and have them pop them in the toaster - works GREAT and is
      pretty cheap.
    o Find out if you can buy a 'large' box of cereal and just leave it
      there.
    o Who says breakfast has to be traditional?  Will he eat a P.B.
      sandwich?  Lunch meat?  Cheese and Crackers?  Cold pizza? (-;
    
    The frozen breakfasts do tend to have LOTS of salt, and can get pricey
    pretty quick.  A few mins of your time and he's ending up with a lot
    better breakfast!
    
    Just some ideas ....
    
    Patty (who has dinner for breakfast and breakfast for dinner....)

    
    Breakfast foods that I can think of that might travel well, without 
    being too much like junk food, are:
    
    Bagels w/cream cheese or peanut butter
    Muffins - bran, blueberry, apple cinnamon, etc.
    Fruit - Bananas, grapes, Strawberries, Melon chunks
    homemade "Trail Mix" - cereal, nuts, raisins, etc. tossed together
    Hard-boiled egg slices
    Blintzes - thin pancakes filled with ricotta cheese, etc
    
    Carol
    

    I've made oatmeal ahead of time and warmed it up in the microwave with
    a bit of milk. It works just fine.  WIth my daycare provider (granted,
    not a center) I purchase a gallon of milk and gallon of juice and give
    it to her on Monday, and it lasts the week with David (part-time at her
    house).  That way I don't have to lug all this stuff with me, and I
    don't have to purchase it in small quantities, which can get expensive.
    Cream of wheat also re=heats well with a little moisture.  Send a small
    box of raisins for him to mix in.  As long as you aren't asking them to
    cook bacon and eggs for him, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask
    them to zap something or pour a little milk over cereal.   

    You can also buy individual packets of instant oatmeal in various
    flavors (raisin, cinammon, etc).  You just add boiling water.  My
    husband and I have always used these on backpacking trips.  I don't
    know how much your son eats, though.. the packets might make too
    much (also, they're not as cheap as "bulk" oatmeal).

Lyn:

At Cory's daycare center, we've always sent breakfast.

I do as most of the previous replies said:  muffins, bagels, toast, English
muffins.  And when we make french toast or waffles at home, we make extra
to freeze.  They heat up well in the microwave also.

I don't usually send cereal because Cory eats that at home/on the way to 
daycare.  If I do send it, the daycare center adds the milk (they supply milk
for his age group).


- Terry